Sacrilegious desertion of the holy ministery rebuked, and tolerated preaching of the gospel vindicated, against the reasonings of a confident questionist, in a book called Toleration not abused; with counsil to the nonconformists, and petition to the pious conformists / by one that is consecrated to the sacred ministry, and is resolved not to be a deserter of it ... Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1672 Approx. 204 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 73 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2006-06 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A27014 Wing B1380 ESTC R5946 12320257 ocm 12320257 59462 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693. -- Toleration not to be abused. 2005-07 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-01 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2006-01 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Sacrilegious Desertion OF THE HOLY MINISTERY REBUKED , AND Tolerated Preaching of the GOSPEL VINDICATED , Against the Reasonings of a Confident Questionist , in a Book called [ Toleration not to be abused . ] With Counsel to the NONCONFORMISTS , And Petition to the PIOUS CONFORMISTS . By one that is Consecrated to the Sacred Ministery , and is resolved not to be a wilful Deserter of it , in trust that any undertakers , can justifie him for such desertion at the Judgment of God ; till he know better how those can come off themselves , who are unfaithful Pastors , or unjust Silencers of others . 1 Cor. 9. 16. For though I preach the Gospel , I have nothing to glory of : For necessity is laid upon me , yea woe is unto me , if I preach not the Gospel . 1 Tim. 1. 12. & 2. 9. & 3. 6. For which cause I suffer these things , nevertheless I am not ashamed , &c. 1 Thes . 2. 15 , 16. Who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own Prophets , and have persecuted us , &c. Printed in the Year , 1672. Tolerated Preaching OF Christs Gospel VINDICATED . CHAP. I. Of the Author and the Title . SECT . I. I Am one my self that am so greatly desirous of His Majesties Clemency , and that this present Toleration should not be abused by any , especially silenced Ministers ; that if this had been all that Author endeavoured , I should earnestly ●e seconded him . And I am not without fear of the Weakness , Rashness , Injudiciousness and Imprudence of some that yet are earnest and profitable Preachers . But when I find that by not - abusing our Liberty , he meaneth , not-using it , and that he hath the face to exhort us to desert our Office , when the King doth hinder them from forcible restraining us ; and that , when it is Gods work which we are vowed to , he cometh to us ( as the old Prophet ) in Gods name , to charge us to forbear it , my Conscience bids me help to save the weaker sort that need it , from such pernicious fallacies . And if I speak plainly of the quality of his arguings , I desire the Reader not to interpret it , as if I had not the heartyest desire of Peace , and all Brotherly Love and Concord with all conformable , godly , faithful Ministers . But words are not answered according to their nature , when the nature of them is not opened . Sect. 2. Who the Author is , and why he resolveth his Question on the Presbyterian Principles , and passeth by the Episcopal Non-conformists , as if he were so ignorant of the present State of England , as not to know that there are many such ( when at the Kings return , 1660. it was Bishop Ushers Form of Episcopal Government which they all offered for Concord , who were employed in that work ) these are little matters , not to be insisted on . Only I shall tell him that I have met with few Presbyterian Ministers in England : though most have that name given them in their Licenses . A Presbyterian is one that is [ For the Divine Right of Ruling-Elders , unordained , having no Power to Preach and Administer Sacraments ; and for the Government of the Church by Presbyteries , Classes , and Synods , composed of Teaching-Elders in Parity with these Ruling-Elders Conjunct , so that a General Assembly of them is the true Ecclesiastical Head of a National-Church . ] Of late , a Presbyterian is like the Puritan of old : A word which hath as many and as bad significations , as speakers have diversity of designs or intents . In one mans mouth a Presbyterian is an Episcopal Protestant of the soberest sort , who is neither for Sects , nor for Church-Tyranny ; and so impudency hath called them Presbyterians many years , who offered the said Episcopal Form , which A. Bishop Usher proved to be the true Government of the ancient Churches . And so we have made Episcopal Presbyterians , who are against unordained Elders , and for Bishops . In anothers mouth a Presbyterian is one that is resolute against Popery . In anothers mouth a Presbyterian is one that is for the serious practice of a holy life . In another mans mouth a Presbyterian is one that is against Bishops . And so Independents and many others Sects would be Presbyterians too . And in other mens mouthes a Presbyterian is one that is of Bishop Reynolds , and Dr. Stillingfleets judgment , that no Form of Government ( besides the meer Pastoral Office , and Church-Assemblies ) is prescribed in the Word of God , but variously left to variety of occasions . Among all these , when you speak with a Railing Ruffian , he must tell you which he means himself : But when we meet with a Divine that understandeth the common use of the Word , we must take him to use it in the first proper sense . In which sense I say again , that I am acquainted with few comparatively that are for Presbytery ; but I know many that are for Pastoral Administration without Church-Tyranny or Schism . Sect. 3. As the Author honoureth himself with the praise of being a Lover of the Truth and Peace ( which commendation all the contending parties , from the Papist to the Quaker are as ready to give themselves ) so I hope I shall the easilier obtain his pardon , if ( believing him ) I shall prove that it is Truth and Peace which he opposeth . And if I offer him a better way to secure them ; assuring him that I agree with him in his main design , to bring the Conformists and Non-conformists nearer , and to a more amicable concord in the Work of God , and not to drive any further from mutual Communion than they are . CHAP. II. The Nonconformists Resolutions , and the true State of the Case to be debated . Sect. 1. BE it known to the Reader , that the name of Nonconformists was not made by our selves , but by others , ( as the names of the four Confessors , Dan. 1. was ) . The Titles which we assume , as signifying our own professed Religion , are but these , our Religion is Christian , and no other ; In opposition to dividing Sects we are Catholicks ▪ In contradistinction from Hereticks , we cleave to the Scripture as our Rule ; In contradistinction from the Roman Schism and Corruptions we are Protestants , that is , we protest to cleave to simple Christianity , and to the Primitive purity and simplicity against their introduced Novelties and Vanities . Sect. 2. As to the Point of Church-Government & Worship ( the quarrel of the present age ) 1. We easily confess that we are not all of a mind ; which is no cause of alienation of affections , nor should be a cause of mutual persecutions ; It being our judgment that Christians are to bear with one another in greater matters , than Episcopal , Presbyterians , Independents , and Anabaptists disagree in . And if any among us have done otherwise heretofore , it was from a Vice Homogeneal to that of the present Conformists , which now they smart for ; and the Conformists may repent of in due time . Sect. 3. We take not the name of Nonconformists to be such a Cothurnus or Hose drawn over the several parties by your prudence as shall make them one , or tye them closer together than Conformists and Nonconformists are . I pray you try , if you will not believe us , whether Papists or Quakers take us or you for their greater Adversaries . Remember how after the Fire of London the Papists in Print did court you as men much nearer unto them than we are , and much liker to befriend them . And I doubt you will never make them think otherwise . We take you for men of the same Religion with us , and much fitter for our Communion , than such Nonconformists as Papists and Quakers are . Sect. 4. But we that suffer from you ( Hear it now , for you shall hear it from God ere long , ) all the Poverty , Confinements , Calamities , Silencings that have been inflicted on us , because we would not subscribe , say , swear , and do — you know what ; can no more go against our Consciences , in Conforming to one another , than to you . Therefore you must not think that Episcopal , Presbyterian , Independent , and Anabaptists , will be ever the more of a mind for this Toleration . Till Reason change their Opinions , they will live according to their different Principles , though they love each other , and live in peace . And because you seem to be ignorant of their Principles and Purposes , I will tell you some of them , that concern the matter in hand . Sect. 5. 1. They take a Ministry to be ordinarily necessary to the propagating of the Gospel & the saving of Souls , Rom. 10. 14 , 15. Act. 20. 17 , 18 , &c. 2. They suppose that this Ministry doth not save men , as Wizards think that Charms do heal men , by their Presence , Titles , Names , or Habits ; By standing in the Reading-place , or Pulpit , or being called the Parson of the Parish , or saying his set words over them when they are dead : But by such publick and personal , frequent , plain , serious Instructions , as are suited to their ignorance security , presumption , hardheartedness , and love to sin ; and such as in other cases would be thought fit to change mens minds and lives . 3. They suppose that when a well , commended Speech hath been said to ignorant impenitent people , one day in a week , without any personal familiar conference to set it home , and make it more intelligible , the most make but little more of it , than if it had been said to them in an unknown Tongue , or at least remain still ignorant and impenitent . Yea , if Forms of Catechisms themselves be taught them , it is ordinary with them year after year to say the Forms , and never understand the matter signified . 4. They suppose that a greater number of the conformable Priests , than they are willing to mention , do Preach so ignorantly and dully in the Pulpits , and do so little of this personal or private work besides , as that there is great need of a far greater number of assistants , than all the present Nonconformists be . 5. They find that some places , of many years past , have had no Ministers at all . 6. They are not able to confute the people in too many places , who tell them that their publick Priests are so defective in their necessary qualifications for their Office , as that they hold it unlawful to own such for true Ministers , and to encourage them by their presence , or commit the care of their Souls to such . 7. They think that some other places have godly , able Conformable Ministers , whom the Christian people love and honor . 8. They think that Parish bounds of Churches , are of humane prudential Constitution , and not of Divine Institution , or unchangeable . 9. They think that a Parish , quatenus a Parish , is not a Church ; nor a Parishioner , as such a Church-member ; for Infidels , Papists , Hereticks , Schismaticks and Dissenters may be Parishioners . 10. They think that the Magistrate hath the power of the Temples and Tythes , and publick Maintenance and Liberty , but that he hath not the power of Ordination or Degradation ; but a man may be a true Minister without his consent , and so I think all Christians hold . 11. They think that some of the Nonconformists were true Pastors of their several Flocks , before they were silenced and cast out . 12. They think that the ejecting them from the Temples and Tythes did not degrade them , nor make them no true Pastors to their Flocks . 13. They think that the Magistrates putting another Parish Minister in possession of the Temple and Tythes , did not dissolve the foresaid relation of the former . 14. They think yet that prudence requireth Minister and People to consent to such a Dissolution of their Relations , where they cannot hold it without greater hurt than benefit : Yea , and to consent that the imposed Minister be their Pastor , when he is fit himself , and the Worship performed by him fit for them to joyn in . 15. But where both are fit , they know no reason but they may take both the Ejected and the Imposed Person conjunctly for their Pastors , each being to Administer to the same Church , according to their various Liberties & Capacities . 16. They greatly difference between London & such like populous Cities , & Country Parishes , because the burning of Churches , the greatness of Parishes , and the paucity of Ministers in London is such , that the tenth person in several Parishes cannot come to Church if they would . 17. In such places therefore they purpose to hold their Meetings at the time of the Parish meeting , because it will be no hindrance to it . 18. So they do also in those Parishes where the Parish Priest is unfit to be owned in that Relation . 19. Where there is a faithful Pastor in the Parish Church whom yet half the people cannot hear , they will not draw the people from him , nor disparage him to hinder the success of his labors , but rather perswade them to honor him , hear him , and obey his Doctrine ; and to judge of the Tolerated Minister but as of his fellow servant , of the same Religion , helping in the same Work , where all our labours are too little . 20. Where the Parish Minister is faithful , and the Parish small enough , and neer enough to Assemble in one place , and the people satisfied with the Liturgie , I suppose the soberest of the Nonconformists ( for they are not all of a mind ) will gather no Church out of that Parish , but will joyn with that Parish Church and Minister ( supposing them united by consent ) and will use their own Ministerial Assistance , at such other times , and place , and manner , as shall best tend to keep up Love and Concord , and to further and not hinder the successes of the publick Minister . 21. I hope no man worthy the name of a Minister , will dream that England should have no more Teachers , than there are ( or are like to be ) Nonconformists : Or will think it his duty to hinder the Labors of any sober Protestant Ministers : Nay , I hope they will all understand , that it was never more their Duty nor their Interest to cherish all brotherly Love and Concord with such ; and woe be to that man who ever he be , whether a Selfish envious Conformist , or a Schismatical factious Nonconformist , that after all such sins and sad experience of the fruits , shall yet hinder the Concord of Protestant Christians , I had almost said , or that doth not heartily and diligently promote it . 22. He that had rather ten thousand persons stay'd idlely at home , or went to Sports or Drinking , in Stepney parish , or Giles Cripplegate , or Sepulchers , or Martins in the Fields , or Giles in the Fields , or Clement Danes , &c. than a Nonconformist should preach to them , I will not soul my paper by calling him as he deserveth , though he pretend that gathering a Church out of a Church , is a thing that he opposeth . 23. In all these Cases following , the Nonconformists will hold distinct Church-Assemblies from the Parish Churches . 1. Where the Parish Church is not capable of them , as was last instanced , by reason of the number . 2. When the Parish Priest is one to whom wise men may not commit the care of their Souls , and one whose Ministry is not to be owned , ( I would there were none such . ) 3. When the Ejected Minister in foro conscientiae & Ecclesiae verè sic dictae , retaineth still his Ancient Relation to his Flock , and part of them Schismatically separate from him , and joyn with an intruder publickly , that never had a lawful Call , and the other half separate not from their ancient Pastor . It s possible the obtruder , though he have the Temple , may be the Schismatick . Ask Dr. Wild , and Dr. Gunning whether they thought not so 14. years ago . 4. It may be some that are more complyant than my self with good peoples weaknesses and humours , when there is none of the foresaid Reasons , may rather choose to be Pastors to honest Separatists , or Anabaptists , than by deserting them to leave them to do worse . And what great matter of injury or provocation should this seem to any peaceable man ? Envy is too odious a thing for any Servant of Christ to own . Is it in the power of Anabaptists to bring all their judgments to yours . And till they can , must they be quite cast off . Who knoweth not how many Ages the Novatians were tolerated by the wisest and godlyest Emperors and Bishops ; yea , what black characters are given by pious Historians , of Ithacius , and his fellow Bishops , who first in France did set the Sword awork even against Heresies , and of Cyril at Alexandria , who first as a Bishop used it himself . 5. But that 's not all : What if any number of persons as good as you , shall think that the Liturgie is guilty of all the Disorders and Defects which once were charged on it , and of some Doctrinal Corruptions since : And what if they think that the Parish Churches are void of Christs true Discipline , and are under an Alien , one which they judge unlawful . What if they say that yet your Churches may be true Churches , and all this may be submitted to , when we can have and do no better ; but he that can serve God in a manner more agreeable to his Word , is bound to do it ; and not to offer God the worst , when the King alloweth us to do our best . And if withall they say , that you refuse them and they refuse not you : You will not give them the Lords Supper , unless they take it kneeling ( which I think they may do , but they think otherwise ) you will not Baptize their Children without the transient Image of the Cross as a dedicating sign , &c. If in this case they choose a distinct Church-Assembly and Pastor , and Mode of Worship ; what harm ●s this to you or any one , and why should it break Love and Peace ? 24. But in this last Case I suppose the most of the Nonconformists that live in Country Parishes which have good Ministers of their own , will not call themselves a distinct Church ( totally ) but will hold their meetings as Chappel-Meetings are held ; Preaching the Word and Communicating in the Sacraments in the best way they can among themselves ; but so as not to unchurch the Parish Church as none , or to withdraw themselves from their Communion ; but will keep all loving correspondence with them , and seasonably sometimes Communicate with them , to shew their principles by their practice . For the benefit of Christian Love and Concord , may make it best for certain seasons to joyn even in defective Modes of Worship , as Christ did in the Synagogues & Temple in his time . Though the least defective must be chosen when no such accidental reasons sway the other way . And perhaps some Nonconformists own Administrations may be as defective as the Liturgie . 25. Where the people are satisfied with the Parish-Church Communion , I suppose the Nonconformists will only help to instruct them at seasonable times , and not meddle with the Sacramental Administrations . 26. The same practice may be done on various Principles ; and many Nonconformists may gather Churches in the forenamed Cases , without turning Separatists , or forsaking any of their former principles . Their differences will appear in these respects . 1. They will not pronounce any of your Parish Churches Null , which have lawful Ministers . 2. They will not say that your Worship is such as no man may lawfully Communicate in . 3. They still hold that Parish-bounds are very convenient ( though not absolutely necessary ) to be Church-bounds : not taking every Parishione to be of the Church , but none ( ordinarily ) but Parishioners to be of the Church . 4. They are driven from the Parish-Ministry against their wills , and had far rather hold their ancient stations . 5. They will thankfully return to them when ever they have leave ; And earnestly pray that these seemings and shews of separation may cease , the occasion of them being taken away . 6. They prefer their own manner of worshipping God , as better than the Liturgy in their opinion , and therefore to be chosen when they may choose ; but they account it not the only acceptable Worship , but are present with you in spirit , desiring a part in the prayers of all true Christians in the world . 7. They set not up the Church-Government of the People over the Pastors , or themselves , nor any of the rest of the Separatists proper principles of Church-Government . 8. Lastly , they desire nothing more than as Neighbour-Ministers in love and concord to carry on with you the same work of Christ . And in all these they differ from Separatists , though they gather Churches . 26. The grand Difficulty to the Nonconformists in their present condition , lieth but in this one case , Whether in competent Parishes , which have able and godly Conformable Ministers , the obligation to hold Union and Communion with the Parish Church , or the obligation to exercise a more regular way of Church-Discipline and Worship than the Parish Churches do or will do , should be judged the more prevalent ; And consequently whether they should gather Churches out of Churches in this case . For in the other forementioned cases the answer is more easie . I shall give my own opinion as followeth : 1. It is lawful and a duty to be a member of such a Parish-Church , when we can have and do no better . 2. We cannot have or do better , when it cannot be without a greater hurt to the Publick Interest of the Gospel , the Church , and the Souls of other men , than the benefit to us and others is like to countervail . That cannot be done lawfully which cannot be done without doing more hurt than good , and destroying the end . Obj. We must do that which God bids us , and leave it to him what shall be the success . Ans . True. But you must prove then that God bids you do it ; for we will not take your word . A●●●●matives bind not to all times : No duty is at all times a duty ; Nay , out of season it is a sin . He that saith , Pray continually , would not have you pray when you should preach or hear , or be quenching a Fire in the Town : He that commanded Sacrifice , set some to learn the meaning of these words [ I will have mercy , and not sacrifice . ] There is few of you but would forbear a Sermon or Prayer to save your own or others Lives : And you receive the Sacrament but once a moneth ( at most ) which the Primitive Churches used every Lords Day . 3. The same practice than in one place ( where it will do more good than hurt ) is a duty , which in another place ( where it will do more hurt than good ) is a sin . 4. The Case is now of so great moment that no Minister should rashly determine it for himself , nor upon the desires of some of the people only , but should consult with wise and sober men that are impartial . 5. The benefits to be expected and compared , are these , 1. The pleasing of God ( when we know it is his will ) and the profit of mens Souls , by the most regular manner of Discipline and Worship . 2. The setting up an imitable example of right Discipline and Worship to other Churches ( but then woe to them that set up a worse . ) 3. The satisfying the Consciences of some honest mistaking people , who think ( erroneously ) that a Conforming Minister may not be Communicated with , or at least not in the use of the Liturgie , or in a Parish Church , or that the Sacrament may not be received kneeling . 6. The evils to be feared , and compared with the benefits , are these . 1. The exasperating of the minds of persons for number or quality considerable , and so alienating them from their brethren , and hindring their good . 2. And thereby weakening the Protestant interest , in a time which requireth our greatest Concord . 3. And the setting of parties against parties , and Churches against Churches , and turning Religion into contentions and mutual oppositions . 4. And the countenancing of unlawful separations , which will all shelter themselves under such examples ; and the dividers will not see the different principles on which we go , while our practice seemeth to be the same . 5. And so it may be injurious to future Ages , by seeming to give them presidents for unlawful separations . 6. And it is not the least evil consequent , that we shall cherish not only the Error of those that think worse of the Parish-Worship & Assemblies than there is cause ; but we shall also accidentally nourish their pride , who will think themselves a holier people , because they Erroniously over-censure the persons and practices of others . 7. The prime great obligation for the cure of all this , doth Ile upon some of the conforming side ; It were easie for them , not to silence Christs Ministers that are as wise and good as themselves . It were easie for them , not to punish a godly person so heavily as an Excommunication comes to , for the weakness of scrupling a Sacrament-gesture ; and not to punish their Children with being unchristened , or themselves with Excommunication , who think the dedicating Image of the Cross unlawful , or think it their own duty to enter their own Children into the Covenant of God , rather than Godfathers that have no propriety in them , and they are sure never intend to take them for their own , or use them as they covenant to do . 8. If on such occasions , true godly Christians are cast out of their Parish-Churches , whether they err or not , all Ministers are neither obliged , nor allowed to desert them , and so to add cruelty and affliction to the afflicted . 9. They that think they answer all by saying that these peoples scruples are but Errours , do but 1. Shew their self-esteem , who can call that Errour which they have said so little to prove to be so ( in some of their instances . ) 2. And he talketh neither like a Pastor nor a Christian , nor a Man , that thinketh all that err should be cast out of the Church . 10. To discern whether in this case a distinct Church is to be gathered or not , is a work of meer Christian prudence and must be determined by comparing the good and evil consequences together , and discerning truly which preponderateth . And he that through Imprudence misjudgeth either way , doth sinne . 11. Therefore it is folly , and sin for Ministers ( Conformable , or Nonconformable ) to expect that in this , all should go the same way , and to censure those that differ from their Opinion , when they may be under different circumstances . 12. They that live in London , where it hath ever been usual to go to Neighbour Parish-Churches from their own , and where custome , and abundance of accidents make the inconveniencies less , have not so much against their different Church-meetings , as those in Countrey Towns and Parishes have , 13. Those that live where the Nonconformists are the main body of the people , and the rest are such for number and quality , whose displeasure is of less publick consequence , have the less against their distinct Church-meetings . 14. Those who live where the Nonconformists are few , and the Conformists for number and quality most considerable , and are like to be greatly exasperated by distinct Churches , must deny their own personal conveniencies , rather than hinder a greater good , and may not do that which others may do . 15. When the publick good forbids it , the tolerated Ministers must not gather distinct Church-Assemblies , but joyn with the publick Churches , and help the people by their instructions at other times . 16. When the publick good forbids it not , the tolerated Ministers must hold distinct Assemblies , for assistance in Doctrine , Worship , and Discipline , as near as they can to the will of God. But so as to further , and not disgrace nor hinder , the honest Parish-Ministers ; living with them in Unity , Love , and Peace : and whether de nomine their Assemblies shall be called distinct Churches , is a case of no great moment , though I think that it is fittest to take them for distinct Churches , secundum quid , and not simpliciter , as many Chappels be : Seeing though in the Assemblies they distinctly worship God , &c. yet they hold personal Communion in a godly conversation with the rest of the Christians in the Parish , and should sometimes also assemble with them . And so much for my own opinion in this case . 27. If Christians would but give over the censoriousness , contentions , and abuse of others , which different Assemblies in the same Town are usually employed in , I see not what great hurt it would do any , for Anabaptists , Separatists , &c. that cannot joyn with the Parish-Churches , to have leave to meet among themselves , and worship God together in peace . 28. As the weakness of the people inclineth them to causeless separations and disjunctions , so the doleful Pride and Selfishness of the carnal part of the Clergie , hath in most Ages made them too impatient with the peoples weakness ; and make such a noise and stir in the World , if a few do but withdraw from their Communion , as if all that disowned them , disowned Christ . And all , because Pride would make every man a God to the World , on whom all must depend , whom all must honour and obey , and no man must contradict ; and all that depart from them , are supposed to accuse and undervalue them . And thus as of our own selves , some men arise to draw Disciples after them , so others set the Churches in a flame , for fear of losing any of their Disciples or esteem ; and between both , how sadly and for how many Ages , have the people of Christ been torn in pieces . What harm doth it me or any other ( if my Pride will let me be quiet ) if men that differ from me in some Points of Judgment , do quietly Worship God , by themselves . But it is so rare for Separated Assemblies , not to make it their Religion and work , to make others odious , and factiously to draw Disciples and associates to themselves , that they must also thank themselves , that others are so impatient with them ; so certain it is that all sides are too blame . 29. The right Diocesan holdeth that a Bishop is essential to a Church , and consequently that we have no more Churches than Diocesses , and that Parish-Churches are properly no Churches , but Chappels , or Parts of the Diocesan-Church : And if so , 1. Then he that separateth from a Parish-Church , separateth from no Church ( though we think otherwise . ) 2. And as he that went to any Parish in the Diocess , kept still in his own Church , so a tolerated Church may be as good , a Church , as such a Parish , and it should not be made a hainous matter for any to go to it , by them that allow men to go from Parish to Parish . 30. The Nonconformists hold that the Ministerial Office is not to be taken up on tryal , or for a time , but durante vitâ cum capacitate ; And that it is no less than , 1. Horrid Sacriledge ; 2. Perfidious Covenant-breaking ; 3. Disobedience to God ; 4. Cruelty to Souls ; 5. And unthankfulness for great mercies , if any of us shall desert our undertaken Offices ( yea though a silencing Diocesan should forbid us the exercise of it , unjustly . ) Therefore Preach and Officiate while we can , we must . 31. Having told you thus far the Nonconformists Principles , I will add , that [ If there be any such Conformable Clergie men , as first will do all they can to silence and eject us , and forbid us to Preach the Gospel of Salvation , whil'st many hundred thousands that lie in ignorance and impenitency , need more help , and then will do all they can to hinder our Restauration , and to keep us silent : And lastly , when His Majesties Prudence and Clemency giveth us liberty to Preach , when they can no longer hinder us by force , would stroak us into silence and neglect of our Office , by a few such silly and confident reasonings as this Author useth , as if to hinder our Ministry and Labour one way or other were their interest and work , I will not offend the Readers Ears , by giving them the name that I think they deserve ; but wish them to read , 1 Thes . 2. 15 , 16. And to tell them ( by what names or Titles soever they be distinguished ) that I that am a dying man , would be loth to stand in their case before God , and that if they and I were well agreed , that there is indeed a God , a Christ , a Heaven , and a Hell , I think we should the easilier be agreed in all the rest of our differences . Some Teachers need these plain Admonitions . CHAP. III. The Questionists stating of his Question considered . Sect. 1. HAving disclaimed the Approving and Censuring His Majesties Declaration , he questioneth [ Whether it be adviseable , especially for the Presbyterians , either in Conscience or Prudence , to take advantage from His Majesties Declaration , to deny or rebate their Communion with the Parochial Congregations , and to gather themselves into distinct and separate Churches . Sect. 2. Here note , 1. That the Episcopal , or Erastian Nonconformists , have none of his especial advice . 2. That he seemeth to speak to none in London or elsewhere who denied their Communion with the Parish-Churches before ; but only to those that would take advantage so to do from His Majesties Declaration . 3. That he calleth them not Parochial Churches , but Congregations . 4. That he joyneth two questions into one , which therefore must be distinctly answered . Sect. 3. My Answer is , 1. It is not adviseable for any Nonconformists , who before held the Parish Congregations to be true Churches , and their communion lawful , and used to communicate with them , to change these principles , nor to renounce , or totally forbear such communion . 2. But it is adviseable for them , when they are cast out of the Parish-Ministry , and forbidden to Preach in the Parish-Temples , but have leave to exercise their Ministry elsewhere , accordingly elsewhere to exercise it ; either in stated , or occasional Assemblies , that shall be parts or no parts of the Parish-Congregations , as the variety of places and cases shall require , which Assemblies shall be distinct and separate from the said Perish-Congregations , either as Chappels be , or ( somewhere ) as one Parish-Congregation is separate from another , being not one , nor in one place , if you will call that separation . But this but for a time , with Profession of great unwillingness , and of a desire to return into the Parochial Ministery , as soon as you can procure them leave : But resolving not to be Idle , Cruel , Sacrilegious , and Perfidious till then , but to live with all godly conformable Ministers , with Christian Love , and Peace , and Concord , if it be possible , and you will give them leave . Sect. 4. When you say [ They cannot but understand the Declaration to be a very strict Prohibition of all such private Meetings as the Law stiles Conventicles ] you know not whose understandings you talk of . 1. We know not , that the Law doth not call our House-Meetings , now tolerated ( though the door be open ) Conventicles : If not , it had been well for us , if you would have proved it sooner . 2. And if you are sure that the Law calleth none of the Papists tolerated private Meetings , Conventicles , we knew not so much : And why should you feign us to be as wise as your self . Sect. 5. As to your three wayes , I answer ●ou ; 1. I believe the Presbyterians will joyn with the Independents , not as a Sect ( as you call them ) but in all that they think good and warrantable . 2. That they will exercise their Ministery , as they are by Covenant engaged , for Christ and mens Souls , and will bear with you , if you call that [ setting up for themselves ] ( hoping yet that you set not up wholly for your selves that speak so . ) 3. And they will worship God with the Sect of the Diocesan Prelatists in the Parish-Churches also , as far as will stand with the due exercise of their proper Ministery : But will not promise you to give over Preaching to become your constant Auditors or Disciples . Sect. 6. You understand neither the Men that you talk of , nor their Cause : they take not the Independents Assemblies to be [ the Tents of Enemies ; ] they leave terms of Enmity among Brethren , to those that have enmity in their hearts . Nor do they [ tamely deliver up the Cause . ] The most Nonconformable Ministers of my acquaintance , whose judgment I ever asked of that matter , do seem to think as I my self do , that the Episcopal , Pretbyterians , Independents , and Erastians , have each of them some Truth and Good which above the rest they do defend ; and each of them some special mistake , where they err above the rest : And if we could know it , we would take the Best from among them all , and leave the worst : And not maintain Church-quarrels , under pretense , that we must not flie to the Enemy , and give up the Cause . Sect. 7. O the confidence of this Adviser in his own understanding ; that dare say [ That he is sure that the Presbyterians have no reason to engage in a way of publick Worship contradistinct to our Parochial Congregations . ] 1. That is contradistinct which is not opposite , or adverse , but either co-ordinate ( as one Parish to another ) or subordinate ( as a Chappel ) . 2. And what man ! Is a Vow and Dedication to Preach the Gospel , no reason to Preach it elsewhere , when its forbidden us in your Assemblies ? Is the alienation of Consecrated persons no Sacriledge ? Is the notorious need of many hundred thousand Souls no reason ? Is the exercising of a Worship and Discipline more agreeable to Gods Word than yours ( we are ready to give you the proof when we have leave , ) no reason ? Is the relieving of many godly Christians , who are cast out of your communion , because they dare not Conform , no reason ? Had we had leave to have conted the silly reasonings of Mr. Fulwood and some such other Pamphleteers , produced against the Nonconformists , we had long ago shewed you cause to repress such self esteem , which dare say [ I am sure they bave no reason ] . Sect. 8. And this man that is sure they have no reason for it , could instance in no greater than the Objection , that It will seem an undervaluing their liberty , and ingratitude to the King. 1. We have no reason to be ungrateful to the King , nor to undervalue our Liberty . 2. But did that move the London Ministers and others , to Preach all this while , before the Declaration . 3. When you have proved that Greater Hurt than Good , will follow our Preaching and Ministry ; and when you have proved that though all the Papists in England , do use the liberty of the Toleration in the Declaration , yet the Nonconformists must not , but silently leave our sufficient Conformists to do all the work against Ignorance , Infidelity , Popery , and Sensuality themselves ; I say , when you have proved this well , you may again bless the people with our silence , and perswade us to silence our selves , when you cannot do it otherwise . Sect. 9. But he saith ( p. 6. ) Their ingenuity and gratitude to God and the King will be better expressed by their Conformity , and Loyal obedience to the known Laws , than by the use of the Liberty permitted to the contrary . Answ . He knoweth that we must not give him our Reasons against Conformity . He cannot but know that many that Conform nor , in all the matters of Subscriptions , Declarations , Oathes , Discipline , &c. ( not medling with other mens Consciences , ) do think it would be in them a composition of such hainous crimes , as they do forbear to name them , for fear of seeming to be accusers of others , and to be unpeaceable : And if he think that such toys , as Mr. Fulwoods , Mr. Stilemans , and Mr. Hinkleys , &c. should satisfie them , he thinks contemptibly of their understandings . And he that by such poor temptations as those , will yield to what their Consciences fear , can scarce tell what he may not yield to before he dieth . Let him procure us leave , but to publish ours Reasons against Conformity , and then let him tell us that we were better Conform , when he hath answered them . It 's easie to talk when none must confute him , and to brave it against one whose tongue is tyed . Sect. 10. His next Supposition is , that the matter of this Liberty is evil . I am glad it is not evil for the Conformists to Preach and Worship God , lest it would have been lawful to none at all . We are glad that Christ is Preached , even by them that do it contentiously , in envy and strife , to add to our Afflictions and Bonds : But we will not our selves give over Preaching , Praying , nor the rest of the Christian Religion , because such men can call it evil . He that saith our Preaching is evil , may tempt men to think that the Gospel which we Preach is evil , or that Infidelity , Atheism , Sensuality , and Wickedness which we Preach against is good or harmless . Is it good in you , and evil in us to Preach the same Gospel ? If you turn to them that Calumniate us of Preaching Errour , or Sedition , the Law is open , our Writings and Doctrine are easily tryed : If we say evil , bear witness of the evil : If not , take heed of calling it evil , Isa : 5. 20. CHAP. IV. Whether to gather themselves into distinct and separate Congregations , is unlawful in the judgment of the Presbyterians themselves ? Sect. 1. THe proving the Affirmative is his work , pag. 7 , &c. But the Presbyterians do not love confusion , nor to dispute such blindly-stated Questions . They distinguish , 1. Between bare Local distinction , and separation ; and that which is eminently called Separation in England , and denominated from the Separatists , which is [ separating from the Parish-Churches , Ministry , & Worship , as being no true Churches , Ministry and Worship ; or at least such as no Christians may lawfully Communicate with , in Doctrine , Prayer , and Sacraments , when they can have no better . ] In the former sense ( as is said ) one Parish-Church is separate from another . And if there be any difference in their Forms or Modes of Worship ; so was there between Basil at Caesarea , and the Church at Neocesarea , and between Rome and Millane , and between almost all the Catholick Bishops for many hundred years . And so now , one Parish-Minister prayeth freely in the Pulpit after Sermon , and before ; another by a Form ; a third biddeth prayer before ; and a fourth prayeth not afterward at all . And yet these are not separated Churches , any otherwise than Locally and in such Modal differences . 2. They distinguish between a Parish-Church that imposeth nothing on the Ministers or People that God forbiddeth , and one that doth . 3. And between a Parish-Church that is Reformable ▪ in that which notoriously needeth Reformation ; and one that solemnly Covenanteth against Reformation . 4. They distinguish between a Parish-Church that is such , and owneth it self for such : And a Parish-Congregation that hath no proper Bishop , nor Pastor who hath the power of the Keys of Government , but is called by its Rulers only a part of a Church , ( Diocesan ) and the Minister , but the Diocesan Bishops-Curat . 5. They distinguish between a Parish-Church where the Ministers in question are forbidden to preach , and the People to have the Sacrament , or their Children to be baptized , unless they will say and do such things , as they dare not do for fear of God's displeasure ; And a Parish-Church , that driveth none such away from Ministry or Communion . And now will this Adviser prove that what any Presbyterians ever said in one case , must reach to all others , that are so different . Sect. 2. He next questioneth , 1. [ Do you not allow our Parochial Churches to be true Churches ? ] Answ . Yea , those of them that have true Pastors , but no others , ( in a political or organized sense . ) 2. Quest . [ And will you not account such Congregations as shall be gathered to your allowed places to be true Churches also ? ] Answ . In some places we will , and in some we will take them but as parts of the Parish-Church ; And in some we will take them but for temporary Assemblies , waiting for a fixed better state ; And in some we will take them for Churches secundum quid , but not simpliciter ; Even as the case of each particular place requireth . Sect. 3. And hence follows the cry of Schism , Independents , Brownists , rank Separatists , &c. As if the Ministers of Christ did know no difference between noise and sense . Yea , we are told of Schism from the Church of England , when I would give him all the money in my purse , to make me understand what the Church of England is . 1. I know that the King is the Civil-Head or Governour of it . But it is a Constitutive Ecclesiastical Head that must denominate it , as an essential part . 2. I take it for granted he speaks of a Church organized in a proper political sense , as constituted of a Pars regens , and a Pars subdita ; and not as an ungoverned Community . 3. I take it for granted that we have two Archbishops , and they tell me , that one is not under the Government of the other . And if that be true , we may have a Church of Canterbury , and a Church of York , but no one Church of England as denominated from one of them as Head. 4. I take it for granted that the Convocation is not the Constitutive-Head , 1. Because it is so seldom in being , that then we should seldom have a Church of England : For the Essence ceaseth with the essential part . 2. And the Canon thundreth against them that deny the Convocation to be the Representative-Church of England . If it mean of the whole Church , Pastors and People , then the People rule , and make Canons by them ( as the Separatists hold : ) And it is the Head of the Church only that we enquire after . If they mean the Clergy , then the Representative-Church or Head must be somewhat distinct from the Real represented . If it be the whole Clergy that is the Real Represented-Church or Head , then we are Popular , or Presbyterian ; for the Presbyters are the major part by far . And what Rulers are they that never rule the Church as one , by themselves , but only by Representatives . I confess easily that many Churches united under one King , and living in one Kingdom , and having thereby special opportunity for Synods , and Correspondence and Concord , may be called one Church , by a denomination , 1. accidental , 2. and humane , not used in Scripture ; And we will not be so quarrelsome as to avoid that language where men will needs use it : But it is the Thing , and not the Name , that we enquire of : What is that One Essential Constitutive-Head which maketh the Churches of England to be all one Church , in a proper political sense , that is , as a Governed-Society ? None question the Civil-Head ; none question the need of Communion and Agreement among all these Churches . But the Question is only of the one Ecclesiastick Constitutive Head. And if you will have the Question to be de nomine , pardon us for holding that forma denominat . But if you will denominate many Churches [ One ] from One Accident , instead of One Individual Form or Essence ; and if you will use terms in Divine Matters , which God never so used in his Word , we contend not against you , but only desire to understand you , when you charge us with Schism from the Church of England . We have observed what hath been the effect of such another enterprize in the Roman Empire : It was thought meet by Princes that where the Empire was One , the Church should be in some sort One also , which was under them . Whereupon Rome had the chief Patriarchate . But in time , 1. this Humane-Unity ( name and thing ) is pretended to be Divine ; 2. And this One Imperial Church ( under one Emperour ) is taken to be One Vniversal Church ; as if the Indians , Persians , and all other Christians ( even the Abassian Empire ) had been part of it , and the Orbis Romanus had been Orbis Universalis . 3. And then no man is a Christian that is not baptized into this Papal Church , and made a Subject of the Pope . Tell us what you mean by our Schism from the Church of England ? We divide not our selves from the King or Kingdom , or from the particular Churches as concordant in any necessary thing . If it be only that we agree not with the Major Vote in all Subscriptions , Oaths , Discipline or Ceremonies : No more did the Bishops in the Roman Empire , who had various Liturgies ; nor Gildas with the Britains , nor Ambrose and Martin with the French and Italian Bishops ; nor the Episcopal party in Scotland heretofore with the Presbyterians , when they were the major part . Is every difference in things unnecessary from the major part , a Schism from them ? The Bishops thought not so in England fifteen years ago : We do not go so far with you , as Gildas with his British Clergy , who pronounced him non eximium Christianum , no excellent Christian , that called them Priests or Ministers , and not rather Proditores , Traitors , as he himself did . Nor do we make such a Schism as Martin seemed to do , who renounced Communion with the Bishops and their Synods ( all his life ) who had prosecuted the Priscilianists with the Secular Sword. Yet neither of these holy men are called Separatists or Schismaticks . But perhaps it is our Disobedience to the Church that is our Schism from it . 1. But every one that maketh himself an Ecclesiastical Governour over other Pastors and Churches , is not therefore their rightful Lord. The King we know , and his Officers we know , but we know not all that call themselves our Lords or Masters . Not but that obedience is the easiest course of life , to a quiet humble mind : But fidelity to our King commandeth the disowning of Usurpers . 2. We confess that we do not actually obey the Civil unquestionable Power in every particle about Gods Worship which hath been commanded us ; I need not tell you why . No more did the Christians for three hundred years after Christ ; nor the Orthodox Bishops in the dayes of Constantius , Valens , &c. nor the Protestants now in France , nor the Calvinists now in Sweden , Denmark Saxonie ; nor the Lutherans under Calvinist Governours , &c. We compare not our Rulers to any of these , in any other respect , but only as Rulers ; but if you your selves are resolved to say and subscribe , and swear , and do whatever lawful Rulers bid you , its possible that before you dye , you may shew that indeed you are not of our minds . 3. But who ever took every act of disobedience in a Circumstance , in a Family or Kingdom , to be a Schism from that Family or Kingdom ? Do you rule by such a Law of Works or Innocency , which cuts off men for every disobedience , and censureth him that obeyeth not perfectly in all things ? 4. And methinks this should not be your meaning , because by Nonconformity , we more disobeyed our Rulers before their Toleration , than since ; and yet it is our preaching after that you call our Schism from the Church . You see what trouble you put men to , to understand you , because you speak unintelligibly and confusedly . If you tell me that the Presbyterians owned a National Church in Scotland . I answer , 1. So do I , as before described , that is , as denominated , 1 From an accident , and not from an Individuating Form , and therefore equivocally and improperly , 2 And humanely , and so unnecessarily , 2. And if Scots or any Presbyterians do it otherwise , that 's nothing to me , who am no more bound to their Opinion than yours . And sure the Church of England is not called One in the Presbyterian sence , as an Aristrocracie , or as Headed by the whole Clergie conjunct . Sect. 4. The rest , p. 8 , 9 , 10. need no other answer , then 1. That the old Puritanes never held it unlawful for them to preach in houses , even when they had no Toleration . 2. As they held it lawful to hold Lay-communion with Parish-Churches that have true Ministers , so do we . 3. They never said , it was unlawful to hold communion with any besides the Parish-Churches ; no more will we . What Law tyeth us to be such Schismaticks as to renounce communion with all other Churches , except Parochial and Conformists , or what Nonconformists ever held it ? 4. Whose conscience should sooner accuse him of Schism ; A Conformists , that will hold Communion with none but his own party , but separateth from all the other Churches in the Land ? Or ours , that resolve to to hold communion seasonably with all true Christian Churches among us , that teach not Heresie , nor preach down Holiness , Love or Peace , and deny us not their communion , unless we will sin ? Let the impartial judg which of us is the Schismatick and Separatist . 5. Do you not hold it lawful for a Minister to remove from one Parish to another ; and for any man for his souls edification , to remove his dwelling into another Parish where is a better Minister ? And what if forty Families do so ? who calleth any of this Separation ? And what if it had been into the Parish of Dedham , Ashby , Whitmore , Preston , when John Rogers , Arthur Hildersham , John Ball , John Dod , all Nonconformists , were allowed to preach there without Conformity . Had this been Separation and Schism , or not ? If yea , what Law of God or Man forbad it ? What Church did they divide from ? If nay , why then is it Schism to joyn with such men in other places ? Where lyeth your Point of Schism or Separation ? Is it for going out of their own Parishes ? 1. So Men in London have ever done to other Parish-Churches . 2. And who ever made a Parish and a Church Synonymal , Jure Divino ? Shall mutable conveniencies be turned into immutable necessities ? What then ? Is it for going to a Nonconformist ? so did those before mentioned . Is it for going to a private house ? 1. So did many Episcopal Pastors fourteen years ago . 2. And some in London since the Fire . 3. And it s an ill argument against them , that would fain Preach in the publick Temples , if they could have leave . As far as I discern , this dust of Schism which you would cast into other mens eyes , obligeth you to wink hard , lest it be blown back into your own . Sect. 5. The love of peace , and the fear of frightning any further from Parish-communion than I desire , do oblige me to forbear so much as to describe or name the additional Conformity , and that sin which Nonconformists fear and fly from , which maketh it harder to us that desire it , to draw many good people to communion with Conformists , than it was of old . But when both Law , and Love of Peace and Concord forbid us , so much as to name the Causes , it is disingenious for the culpable to take that advantage against us , and to urge us to do that which they themselves cannot bear . Sect. 6. But with full sail of self-conceitedness he next comes upon us , with this as an undeniable proof , that [ our Members are taken out of true Churches . ] Who would gainsay a man of such understanding ? But 1. Do not those , as aforesaid , that remove from one Parish Church to another , remove from true Churches ? 2. How many Bishops have written that the Church of Rome is a true Church ( as Halls Collection against Burton sheweth you ) and must no Churches therefore be gathered out of them ? 3. What advantage then hath every foolish Superstitious Priest above God , and over all good Christians ? God bids us worship him according to his Law , and to do all things in order and decently , and to edification . And must not God be obeyed ? No , if the Priest will not consent : For if he will worship God foolishly , with non-sence , undecently , disorderly , against edification , you cannot help it ; his followers may be a true Church still , and then no man must remove to worship God better than pleaseth the Priest . He that is fallen under such drunken Readers , as I was bred under in my youth , that were drunk many times oftner than they preached ( I am ready to prove it , for they never preached , but were drunk oft ; ) this poor man and his Family must venture their Souls on this sottish Drunkards conduct , because it is a true Church , and they must not go from a true Church ; What a trick hath the Devil found to bind men to constancy in his service , so it be done in a true Church ! Alas poor England , whose Teachers talk confidently at this rate , because they can say that they do it in a true Church , & did not the Parliament take a Church out of a true Church , when they separated Covent-Garden from Martins Parish . And so it is when Parishes are divided into two , one part is separated from the other . Sect. 7. But factious Disputers see but on one side . You thought not that you your self were all this while proving your selves Schismaticks . I undertake to prove that Pastors and People are the Constitutive Essentials of a true Church : That Dr. Seaman , Mr. Calamy , Dr. Manton , Mr. Gouge , Dr. Bates , Dr. Jacomb , and abundance more such , with the people subject to them , as Pastors , were true Churches . Prove you if you can , that on Aug. 24. 1662. they were degraded , or these true Churches dissolved , on any reason , which any Churches for 600 years after Christ would own . 4. If not , you seem your self to accuse their Successors , of Schism , for drawing away part of the people from them ( meerly by the advantage of having the Temples and Tythes ) and so gathering Churches out of true Churches ; so ordinary is it for self-esteeming men to talk to their own reproach and condemnation . Sect. 8. But as to his second Objection , I will take his part ; and though we differ not at all from the Doctrine of the Church of England ( till the new Doctrine about Infants was brought into the new Rubrick ) yet it is not in minutioribus that we differ from the Conformists ; gather from it what you can . God knoweth we think the matters in difference , very far from things indifferent . CHAP. V. Whether the Declaration make the Non-conformists preaching more lawful , or their duty , than it was before ? Sect. 1. HIs Sect. 2. Pro. 2. is impertinent . For , 1. He knoweth little , if he know not , that the Nonconformists did before take such preaching and meetings to be lawful , and a duty in respect of the Law of God , where they had opportunity to use them . 2. But they take it for a double sin , to neglect a duty , when they have Liberty granted them by the King to perform it . But he knoweth we take God for our absolute Soveraign , and think that none can repeal his Laws , because that none hath any power but from him ; and we suppose that he will pass the final sentence on Kings and us . To what purpose is it then among Christians to question , whether Men make it lawful for Christs Consecrated Ministers to preach , when God commandeth it . Sect. 2. But pag. 14. he thinks he may safely say , [ that the Declaration doth not so much as uncommand and uninjoyn any thing , which the Law properly commands or injoyns ] . Answ . Say you so ? 1. The Law commandeth Magistrates to execute the penal Laws . The King forbiddeth them : Is not that to uncommand them ? 2. The Law commandeth us not to meet above four in a private house for worship , otherwise than , &c. The King suspendeth , or dispenseth with this Command , and not only with the penalty . And is not a suspension of a Precept an uncommanding , though not a commanding of the contrary ? I will not instance in Juries indicting Papists , &c. Sect. 3. But he subtilly tells us that the Declaration meddles neither with the Preceptive nor Punitive parts of the Law , but only with the Execution , which is extrinsick to both . All Lawyers must come learn anew of him , what it is to dispense with a Law. As if the Command [ You shall examine and punish such & such men , ] and the prohibition [ You shall not punish them , but protect them ] were not contrary . Nor the prohibition [ You shall not meet above four &c. ] and the dispensation , [ You may meet , &c. ] Sect. 4. But all this is utterly impertinent to them whose Consciences never allowed them to forbear their Ministry in formal obedience to any mens prohibition , but only when they had not power or opportunity to exercise ; It 's no duty which cannot be done . And License maketh that possible which was impossible ▪ He that untieth my feet , accidentally maketh it my duty to go . Sect. 5. pag. 16. Let Mr. Crofton answer for himself , but the other two named by you , Ball and Baxter have much against you , but nothing for you ; and understand themselves better than you understand them ; and he that surviveth , taketh himself to be abused by your Allegations , and provoketh you to cite any of his words , which are against Nonconformists preaching as they have opportunity . If you had rather that we were all used as Mr. Jos . Allein was , you may see by his Preface to his Life , whether he was not for such sufferings rather than silence . Sect. 6. His reviving his pitiful Objection , That we have the approbation of Authority for separation , is but a contemptible sporting of himself at the game he is best skilled at ; Objecting nothing , that he may seem to answer it with something . Sect. 7. But p. 18. he will bring us to Vtopia ( Morus invented it ) and there he will suppose [ the Villanies of Theft , Murder and Adultery unpunished , and publick Meetings allowed where they should be practised . ] Answ . 1. What should the poor Nonconformists hear , if they thus Commented on the Clemency of the King ? 2. But because you will force dumb men to speak , suppose that in the same Utopia , the Philosophy Schools which had faithful Teachers , and the Christian Churches that had faithful Pastors , were deprived of near 2000 of them at once , and those that came in their places , had the consent but of the least part of the people ; and that they were such as did Doctrinally declare to the people that millions may be PER ● without sin , & that they , ex animo , approve of all the Gregorian Liturgie , and every thing therein , and of all the Lutherans Consubstantiation , and Church-Images ; and when in Baptism they had vowed to fight against the World , the Flesh , and the Devil under Christ , they should contrarily upon deliberation make a solemn publick Covenant , that in their places , & callings , they would never endeavour to reform Cardinals , Inquisitions , High-places , Consubstantiation , Church-Images , or Church-tyranny , & so in part renounce their Baptism : And suppose a clement Prince should release the ejected Teachers from their restraints , and allow them to set up private schools of Philosophy and Divinity , and the people should say , We cannot in conscience cast our Souls on the guidance of the PER ● and therefore crave the benefit of your conduct : If these suffering men shall seek to reconcile them to the PERS ● and desire them to have a better opinion of them , but yet tell them , that they will not deny them their own best help ; Quaere , whether they sinned by not being PER ● themselves , or by not being cruel deserters of mens Souls ? and which side is to be compared to the Murderers and Adulterers ? I know this is not our Case in England ; but if we must follow you into Utopia or Moria , let us have the equitable judgment of the place . CHAP. VI. Of the Inconveniencies of our Tolerated Meetings . Sect. 1. NOthing more easie than for men that have some great advantages , to force inconveniencies upon other mens greatest Duties . And we look to do nothing in the World scarce that shall have no inconvenience . I eat not one meal of ten that doth not make me sick . But must I therefore give over ? I can tell you of more than a few inconveniences of your own preaching , and Church-worship ; and yet you will not give it over . But if any shall make those inconveniencies against our wills , and to the grief of our hearts , & then tell us that to avoid them we must Sacrilegiously and as Soul-murderers desert our Ministery , we shall easilier answer them , then they will shortly answer God. Sect. 2. His first inconvenience is , that [ We shall lay down the Cudgels and beg the peace , &c. of the rest of the Sectaries , as well as the Independents . ] Answ . A hard point to that Sect that is Turba gravis paci , placidaeque inimica quieti ; who know not how to lay down the Sworn . But if we have been at Cudgels , we mean not to live and die at a work so unsuitable to our Religion and our minds . Reproach not him that said [ If it be possible , as much as in you lyeth , live peaceably with all men ] But if it be our dislike of Schism that are the Cudgels you mean , you are answered already . Pretend not to know our minds better than our selves . When were we against our own Preaching , as we had opportunity ? Sect. 3. He would next raise a suspicion , [ That our Principles change with the times , ] and yet saith [ It is a thing not easily observed in us in any thing else ; ] Condemn not your self then by suspecting it in this , till you better know our minds : [ Or else , which is worst of all , that our interest lay at the bottom , and was the only Spring and Wheel of our zeal , and all our motions , &c ] Answ . Who had been the more accusable of this Carnality and Hypocrisie , in the eyes of any standers by , the Conformists that take up the Principles that go along with Safety , Wealth , Preferments and Dignities ? or the Nonconformists , that have near ten years been deprived of all Ecclesiastical maintenance ? some lived in extream poverty , and some lain in Jails , &c. Sure , if we accuse not you , even you , of hypocritical following carnall interest , one would think a little modesty might have cured the Canker that moved these suspicions or accusations of us , either as to these or former Opinions . But my expectation of modesty , I see by the following words , needs a pardon . Sect. 4. He addeth [ Consider I beseech you , how like to Independent-Ape● your new Congregations will make you look , &c. ] Answ . That is to say , Come Nonconformists , if you will not be beaten from your Masters work , we will try whether we can scoff and scorn you out of it ; if that will not do , we will pretend Christs Name and Authority as forbiding you . For as Christ , Matth. 4. so you must encounter a three-fold temptation . But we take pleasure in infirmities , and can bear to be made as the off-scouring of all things , remembring who was cloathed in Purple , and then mockt as being like a King. If you will take my Spoon and Knife from me , and then say that I eat like an Ape or a Beast , I will not be so prated and fooled out of my meat . If with Diogenes I had cast away my Dish to use my bare hands , or forsaken my House to live in a Tub , I had deserved your derision ; but if you take my house & all my goods from me , you shall not mock me out of my poor Tub also ; We would avoid all appearance of evil ; But only in things indifferent , we will not cease Christianity preaching or praying , when you can make it by your Artifice appear like evil : Let 's hear the instances . Sect. 5. [ 1. Your Churches will be gathered as theirs . ] Answ . As much as all the Churches for three hundred years were ; or the Meetings of Flavianus , Meletius , and others at Antioch , when they were prohibited the Temple . And as Dr. Wilds and Dr. Gunnings were fifteen years ago . Or if you will , as the Joannites were in Constantinople , till Chrysostoms name and bones were honoured by wiser men than those that cast him out . Sect. 6. [ 2. You can administer Baptisms or the Lords Supper , to none but those of your select number . ] Answ . 1. Is it because we will not , or because you will not give us leave ? Who then is it long of ? O for modesty ! Tye mens feet , and reproach them for not going ! 2. But is it not better to give an Alms to the bodies or souls , of some men , than of none at all ? Argue thus with your Physicians , You can medicate none but your select Patient ; Ergo , you are to be scorned if you medicate any at all . And I profess , were it not for the poor peoples sake , and my duty to God , I would give you ( that desire it ) all my practice , and all the gains . 3. But why may we not in the allowed places exercise our Ministry , in baptizing the Children of any one of your Flocks that shall desire it , or giving them the Sacrament ? I yet understand it not , unless for the avoiding of your envy and displeasure . Sect. 7. [ 3. You cannot exercise Discipline but by the consent of your people . ] Answ . 1. We cannot be Pastors to any against their wills : If you can , and take that for your honour , keep it , for we will have no part with you . We find indeed that it is your Opinion to exercise your Discipline on us against our wills . 2. But though we cannot take men for Christians , nor for our special Flock , nor bring them to repentance , nor yet absolve them against their wills , we can admonish and excommunicate them against their wills , and deny them the Lords Supper from us ; if they first voluntarily submit to our Ministry . We take it not for our part or honour to do in these things so much as you can . Sect. 8. [ 4. Neither can you have any Church . Government but in your single Congregations , and that too Independent on all others . ] Answ . 1. Who is that long of ? Is it not you that forbid it us ? 2. But indeed we never desired to play the Bishops in other mens Diocess : If we pretended to govern you , would you take it for our Orthodoxness ? I think not . I would you were of the same Opinion , & I would the Pope were of the same Opinion , and would let other men alone , and exercise his Discipline over none that he hath nothing to do with . Baxter whom you name hath told you , that Bishop Usher profest his Judgment to him , that even Bishops in a Council ( though they are there Governours of the Flocks , yet ) meet not for Government of one another by Vote , or of other Bishops , but for Concord . And Grotius de Imp. sum . pot . hath shewed you that Canons are not Laws but Agreements . 2. But why may not many of us Ministers meet in one allowed place , for such Agreements in our Pastoral Government ? And no greater dependance do we desire : I assure you we should be glad if all the silenced Ministers these thirty years had been less dependant on the Diocesans . Sect. 9. He addeth [ Thus as others are Independents by choice and Profession , you will make your selves so by necessity ; and that necessity such , as you wilfully throw your selves into against all the light of Presbyterian-Conscience , Prudence and Interest , by a needless and sinful , a scandalous and mischievous separation . ] Answ . 1. Such confidence upon such insignificant reasonings , is a great dishonour to the wit and humility of the Author . He that no better knoweth their judgments , can tell you , what all the light of the Presbyterian conscience is . 2. He can prove that our Ministery is needless , sinful , &c. because he can call the exercise of it separation : As if the paucity of ignorant and ungodly Souls , and the sufficient number , ability , zeal , and diligence of the Conformists made us and our Labours needless indeed . Alas , what thoughts have these men of souls , of sin , of holiness , of repentance , and of their own sufficiency and labours . But , Sir , who made you a fitter Judge of the need of souls , than themselves and all others ? Next perswade us that Tutors are needless , because all in England are born learned . I have much ado to get servants in my own Family that have tolerable knowledge and piety : And can our Conformists alone sufficiently teach many hundred Families , and prove that other mens help is needless ? Try first whether you can perswade men , that you alone are sufficient to teach all the Children in your Parishes to speak , and to dress them , and feed them , and that all other persons help is needless . Get them to fast all till you seed them your selves , and make them believe they need no other meat . We that have conferred with all the people of our Parishes when we were permitted , found that multitudes were almost as ignorant as Heathens : And yet our excellent successours , that do no such thing ( as to any two of them that ever I knew or heard of ) but see their faces in the Church , can prove all our Teaching needless to these poor ignorant souls : Is this humility , and Ministerial fidelity ? It s sin in us to preach , and duty to the Conformists : I am glad they take it yet for a duty to any . 3. But is it not as easie for us to say , That you have needlesly , and sinfully , and scandalously taken our places , ( I mean as to the Church-Relation , & not as to the Temples and Tythes , ) and drawn some of the people to separation from those that were before true Churches ? We say not so ; but put not your selves on the hard task of disproving it , if you are wise . 4. But our necessity Sir , hath visible Causes . 1. God and our own consent at our Ordination , made our necessity of exercising our Ministry ; We are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ , nor that it was our choice : But God hath laid this necessity on us , and wo be unto us if we preach not the Gospel , as we have opportunity . 2. The Bishops to some of us , and senior Pastors to others , by Ministerial Investiture imposed this necessity on us . 3. The great necessity of multitudes of fouls ( which nothing but gross ignorance de facto , Infidelity , or Impudency can deny ) concurreth to cause this necessity . 4. The Law imposeth a necessity on us , not to preach among you in the Temples : If then God say , Preach , and the Law say , Preach not in the Temples , we may conclude we must preach out of the Temples ; if we have but as much wit as King James's Hounds had , that at a double way , if they find the Hare hath not gone one way , will take it for granted he is gone the other . Here is then but two makers of our necessity , the Imposer and the Restrainer ; Reproach neither of them if you will take our council . Sect. 10. He addeth [ In vain do you think to help your selves , and to satisfie the World , by pleading the moderation of your Principles , and that you do believe our Parochial Congregations are true Churches , which the other Sectaries deny : For besides that many of the Independents acknowledge the same , this is the great aggravation of your Schism : For why then do you seperate from us ? ] Ans . 1. We are glad that you confess the Independents themselves are so moderato towards you . 2. We perswade none to separate from you . 3. Do you silence us , and depose us from the Ministry , and forbid Baptism and the Lords Supper to all that have not as wide a swallow as your selves , and then ask , Why separate you from us ? 4. Do you draw Churches to your selves out of our true Churches that were before you , and then charge your act on us ? 5. Why come not you to the private Churches among you that have all this while been kept up ? e. g. In London , why may not Dr. Manton , Dr. Annesley , Dr. Jacomb , and abundance of such , as fairly charge those that go only to the Temples , for separating from them ? They say , They are as true Chuches as you . If their not hearing you is separation , why is not your not hearing of them so ? Big words when men are got into the Saddle make not their Cause good . 6. But it seemeth that acknowledging you true Churches will not satisfie you , without ( what ? ) actual hearing you . But doth not every Chappel , and every neighbor Parish then , and all the World besides your Auditory , sinfully separate from you ? Some men can triumph in such reasonings for themselves , as would make another sick to read them . CHAP. VII . Of the inconvenience from our Brethrens sence of Toleration . Sect. 1. HIs next Section , pag. 21 , &c. is as meer delusion as any of the rest . First , he argueth from the Presbyterians being always against a Toleration . Reader , all sober Divines that ever I met with , use here to distinguish between Tolerable and Intolerable things and persons , and to conclude that the Tolerable must be Tolerated , and the other not , though they all agree not how much is Tolerable . Now what doth this man but talk confusedly , as if they had been against all Toleration . Look up man without blushing , and tell the World , Whether ever the Presbyterians maintained it a sin to Tolerate Presbyterians . Alas , for those poor people , that cannot try sence from nonsence ! with what stuff will such men carry them away ? If you talk of the Toleration of any that are Intolerable , what have we to do with it any more than you ? Sect. 2. Any more than you , did I say ? Sir , vilifie not the wits of those Clergy men that chiefly contributed to our — so as to imagine that they did not know what they did , and foresee this day . Honour their understandings more , than to take them for so ignorant , ( especially being lowdly foretold it , ) as not to foreknow , 1. What number and sort of men would be laid by . 2. How the people would judge of them and their Cause . 3. How both they and the people would go through their sufferings . 4. How wise , sensible , and merciful His Majesty would be , when he saw all this stir , and dissatisfaction of his people . 5. And that the preaching of silenced Ministers in private , would encourage all other Sects . 6. And when ever the door was opened for their Liberty , all others would endeavour to thrust in with them . Who then I pray you hath done more for Toleration , you or we ? Sect. 3. But his next hath no bounds , and grieveth me to read it ( O posterity , how will you know what to believe ? ) viz. p. 22. [ Have not you lately refused the comprehension , and denied so great an advantage to your selves , because you could not have it without a general Toleration . ] Answ . No , Sir , we have not ; nor should you have by a question vented such a falshood . Name the men that offered us a comprehension , and the men that refused it ? If you tell us that you , or such another offered it to one of your neighbours , you may possibly make your words ridiculously true : But if you mean that either the King or Parliament offered it , tell us when , and and who were the refusers . If you mean any Parliament Speeches , it is not fit for us to talk about them . But you will not I suppose presume to say that the Parliament ever offered either Toleration or acceptable comprehension ( that is , to take in Nonconformists ; ) much less both . There was a Rumor of one Mans Speech , called a Presbyterian , as if it had sounded like a refusal of some abatement , but if you will talk with him as I have done , he will soon shew you the falshood of that Rumor . If you could have proved that any secret person ever refused such an offer , can you thence say to the Presbyterians that they refused it ? If you mean an offer that by a great Minister of State was made , be better informed of it your self . 1. That it was not refused , but very thankfully accepted . 2. That for the Toleration of other men , besides themselves , those two or three that meddled in it , answered . 1. That it was their desire that all Tolerable Dissenters might be tolerated . 2. That it was His Majesties work and not theirs . 3. That therefore those that were to be Tolerated , were accordingly to be spoken to of the Terms , for we were capable of treating of the Case and Terms of none but our selves . And after this the endeavour for our Comprehension went on to our content , till the Parliament sate , and presently shut the door against it . I know of no other offer but this , which those few that dealt in it well know was far from being refused ; so that a greater slander could scarce have been laid on men that have stil so greatly desired A COMPREHENSION OF ALL SOBER PROTESTANTS IN THE PUBLICK MINISTRY , and A TOLERATION ALSO OF ALL TOLERABLE DISSENTERS , under Laws of peace and safety : This was still the thing which we begged for in vain : But who should be accounted Tolerable , we were never called to give our publick Opinion or Advise , that I know of . Repent of such Calumnies , and study not to aggravate your Fault by Excuses . Indeed , if the offer had been made to them of a Comprehension on condition they themselves would have APPROVED of an Vniversal Toleration of all those whom they account Intolerable . I doubt not but they would have said , We thankfully accept Comprehension , but cannot approve of such a Toleration , but leave your own work● to your own wisdom ; we cannot go against our Consciences for any Liberty : But other mens actions , are not ours . Sect. 4. And he addeth old speeches against Toleration , Universal intolerable Toleration : Wherein we lament his want of common sense or modesty . 1. If he would insinuate that we are for an Vniversal Toleration , because we preach when we have liberty and opportunity , What dealing is to be expected from such men ? When he confesseth that we have been still against such a toleration ? When we have almost twelve years ago , cryed out , even to unmannerliness , that if possibly we might have been heard , to the Reverend Prelates , Cast not out so many in the necessities of the people ? O drive not godly people from your Communion for nothing ! If you can prove Crossing , and your Sacrament-kneeling lawful , with Subscriptions , Canonical-swearing to you , &c. yet all that think otherwise should not be excommunicated , or forbidden to preach Christs Gospel : We have Fornicators , and Drunkards , &c. enough to excommunicate : O drive not upright conscionable Christians from your Churches ! Force not Ministers to private preaching and sufferings , which will certainly occasion Sects , and open a door to you know what . And when we can no whit prevail , if these very men themselves shall say , that it is we that are for Universal Toleration , with what Forehead — What man that hath not lived in a dream these 12 years , hath made any doubt but that it hath been the interest and desire of Infidels , Papists and Quakers , that our ejections and pressures might be as great as might be , that so the Protestants might be weakned & broken by their own Divisions , and the chief opposers of these men be either consumed , or forced by misery to petition for Toleration , or at least that it might be granted as for our sakes , and we might be said to open to them the door , that they that confess we have been most against it , might be able ( but quâ fronte ) to say that it was our doing and not theirs . But when mens wits have thus play'd the game to the utmost , they are but abusing themselves : For they must dye , I tell you , they must dye , & be judged by that God that hateth Malignity , Cruelty , and Hypocrisie , and will detect all frauds before the World ; when all that is now admired by the dreaming World , shall be levelled , obscured , and appear contemptible , even to them that sold their Souls to obtain it . Sect. 5. Once more Reader , peruse all the Citations of this Author , out of Mr. Edwards , Mr. Trap ( a Conformist , yet numbred with us ) or the Jus Divinum Presbyterii ( said to be written by Dr. Roberts , a Conformist ; ) only read them not with this Authors Spectacles or Eyes , and then tell me like a man of truth , whether thou dost believe that their meaning was , [ An Universal Toleration is unlawful : Ergo , Presbytery must not be Tolerated , if any others get the power ] or whether ever the Nonconformists said , [ We are not to be Tolerated ] or , Whether the Episcopal men told Cromwel in his Usurpation , [ It is unlawful to tolerate us ? ] It is strange that any party who think themselves only or chiefly fit for Legal possession , should yet think themselves intolerable . But if he talk of the Tolerating of others , that are indeed intolerable , let him talk to them that have to do with it ; and let him first talk his friends into the tears of true Repentance ( if they be not past learning ) even from the greatest EXPERIENCE it self . Sect. 6. But the man will seriously prove what he saith , p. 25. [ Can you more signally own , recognize , or more expresly give your unfeigned assent and consent unto , and approbation of both Toleration and Schism , than not only des●ring to escape the penalty of the Laws , and to live quietly in a state of separation by vertue of it , but also by taking the utmost advantage of it , for the erecting distinct and separate Congregations to your selves . ] Ans . 1. If he mean that we approve of the Toleration of our selves , & all the Tolerable ; sure we never did deny it : Let the enemy of mankind glory in the contrary , as his proper vertue . But if he mean ( as he plainly seemeth ) that we approve of the Universality of Toleration ; Come , weigh his proof . 1. By desiring to escape the penalty of the Laws . Answ . Now you speak sense , we feel your meaning . It is a crime worthy the name of Schism , to desire to be unpunished , when you desire our punishment : We do not toto pectore telum recipere : What if you were for hanging and burning us ? were it Tolerationism & Schism to be unwilling to be hang'd or burnt ? While we have such Ithacian Masters in our own Coats , blame us not to desire Toleration , and to thank the King for saving us from our Brethren . The penalty of poverty , and losing all Ministerial maintenance , we never escaped since you succeeded us : Yet God that bids us ask for our daily bread , would not have charged our desiring it , on us as our sin , if the Law had forbit it us . Poor Joseph Alleine and many another are gone , and did not escape the penalty : I never heard that Bradford or Hooper , or Latimer were accused for desiring to escape penalty . Was it Josephs sin that the Ishmaelites and Egyptians were more merciful to him than his Brethren ? But , Brother , what good will our sufferings do you ? What harm wil it do you if we escape ? Do you feel your self ever the more at liberty when we are in the Common-Jayls ? Are you the fuller , because some Nonconformists wants Bread ? We have been heinously accused by others , for coming within five miles of any City , Corporation , and place where we lately preached ( when Christ said , If they persecute you in one City , flee to another : ) As if it were lawful to desert all the Souls in Cities and Corporations , or to take you alone for sufficient , where the very number of Souls proves you least sufficient . But would you be at more hearts-ease , to think that none of us are within five miles of you , nor teach any of the people the Gospel of Christ ? You have with less noise endured Infidels and Papists enough within five miles of you ? Alas , when the Stone is set on rolling down the Hill , where will it stop ? Sect. 7. But this is spoken conjunctively with what followeth : And what 's that ? 2. [ To live quietly in a state of separation — ] that is , Not to be your subject hearers : But , 1. Have not many of us , some constantly , some at times , sat at your feet as your Disciples . 2. If Ministers be judged by you unworthy to preach the Gospel , have they not reason to think you judge them unworthy to receive the Sacrament ? 3. Are you Separatists for not hearing them ? If not , why are they such for not hearing you ? But of this before . Sect. 8. But the utmost is [ Erecting separate Congregations to your selves . ] Answ . 1. You mean , it is sin in us to exercise the Ministry which we are vowed to , and not to be Sacrilegious and cruel to Souls : For can we Preach without Auditors ? And can those Auditors be no Congregation ? And can that Congregation be out of your hearing , and not be locally separate , as every Parish-Church and Chappel is ? Must two Congregations be one , or else be Separatists ? I know two Churches so near that the people may hear each other , and yet they are two , and therefore one is separate : And I pray , which of them is it ? It may be all in England save Canterbury , or rather Glastenbury , are Separatists , for separating from the first Church : As if Pythagoras justly cursed the number of two , because it was the first that durst depart from unity ; and all Churches in the World were Separatists except Jerusalem . I pray you Sir , tell me , What if a Tolerated Presbyterian should read the Common-prayer in his Church , and use all your Ceremonies ( though he fear Perjury , and Lying , and Violating his Baptismal Vow ) : were this a Schismatick or not ? If yea ; Then so is every neighbour Parish-Minister , or Chappel Curat . If not ; than it is not a distinct Congregation that maketh Separatists . And then what if he do not use the Liturgie ; doth that make a Separatist ? Were you all Separatists that used it not fifteen years ago ? I shall next expect to hear that he is a Separatist that readeth in his own Common-Prayer-Book , and not in yours . But I doubt the Separation is in this , that the Tolerated Minister will not be your Curat , and ruled by you : But remember that some are Presbyterians , and therefore for Parity of Ministers ; and I and many others are so much for Episcopacy , as that we would not have Prelatical Jurisdiction given to those Parish Priests , who themselves are against Presbyters , and for Prelacy . CHAP. VIII . Of Inconvenience from the Nature of the Practice . Sect. 1. IN all this Section , let the Reader consider , 1. How few words there be , which a Papist Priest in Paris might not say against the Protestants . 2. Whether this be not the summe of all , [ Preaching the Gospel hath hazards , inconveniencies and likelihood of frustration ; Therefore it is your folly and sin to Preach it . ] 3. Whether there be not much that would not almost as handsomly have served Celsus , Julian , Porphyry , Eunapius , or Symmachus against Christianity ? Sect. 2. Do not you excommunicate and drive from your several Parishes the Members of Christ , for not eating with your Spoon , and then repreach them that will take them in whom you cast out ? Sect. 3. We still hold that Members of the same particular Church , should not live at a distance so great , as to make them uncapable of ordinary Personal Communion . Sect. 4. We take your Warning : Independents , as you say , may over-reach us ; Peoples inconstancy and weakness may frustrate much of our Labours ; Quakers and Papists may deceive some ; We adde , And you and others may keep us after all in Poverty , and in Jayls , for ought we know . And what of all this ? Therefore preach not . Next say , Therefore be no Christians ; Therefore damn your own souls , if your temptations be so great . No , Sir , But , therefore we will serve Christ the more resolutely , and trust him for our preservation and reward . The God whom we serve is able to deliver us : But if he will not , be it known unto you , that we will not cease to preach his Gospel , while we can , and we fear not being losers by him . Sect. 5. But your Will seemeth to bear down your Experience , while you would tempt us , by the discouragements of Difficult Assembling , and the Peoples Poverty . Have those kept us from doing what we could till now ? Will our Poverty be greater than you Conformists have made it ? Have we served God about twelve years without one bit of the Levites portion ? and cannot we do so till we die ? There is an harmony in all your discourse : To tell us of the discouragement of Poverty from others , that would help us , were they able , when your Party hath so long kept us without a bit of Bread , but what Alms , or some mens own Stocks afforded them , is just like the rest . It sufficeth us to tell you , that we preach not for Riches , and we will not cease through Poverty . Talk at this rate to one another . Sect. 6. When you say , that a Toleration may reduce the common sort to an indifferency in Religion . I answer , Get your friends together then that have brought it to that pass , as that [ It must be this or worse ] and bring them to weep over their sins before God ; That if a miserable Nation may not be saved from the Fire that you have kindled , your Souls yet if possible may be saved . Sect. 7. But , ( pag. 29. ) you too boldly make your selves the Stewards of God's Blessings ; and as Magisterially , without proof , pronounce that we are out of his way , and in opposition to his Church , and contrary to his Word . Answ . For my self I have long been of an opinion , which one day you will pardon , that , Perjury , Perfidiousness and Persecution , proud contending who shall be greatest , and covenanting never in certain points to obey Christ against the World and the Flesh , is not the way of God : If you take me for singular , there is no remedy . 2. And what Word of God is it that we contradict ? I reade in the Rubrick of something about Infants , Certain by the Word of God ; but I never heard in what Chapter or Verse it was . 3. And which is Christ's Church which we oppose ? What Chapter and Verse saith , that only Subscribers , Swearers , Declarers and Conformists are the Church of Christ ; and those that fear an Oath and Conformity are none of it ? CHAP. IX . Of Inconvenience from our present Conformity . Sect. 1. HE next confesseth that [ most of us have hitherto held some measure of Communion with the Church of England ] And now [ if we depart and fall quite away ] ( when we purpose to go no further from them , but rather come nearer if they will give us leave ) then saith he [ You will publish to the World , that your complyance with us before the Toleration , was not out of sense of Duty , or love of Peace and Unity , or any other good end ; but meerly out of slavish fear of Punishment , &c. ] Answ . 1. We will not reflect by recrimination , because we would not provoke you more than needs . 2. As far as I can promise , we will judge of you no worse than we have done , nor deny any Communion with you which we have used , and can use without neglecting our own work . As I constantly joyn in my Parish-Church in Liturgy and Sacraments , so I hope to do while I live ( if I live under as honest a Minister , ) at due times . But what if I had leave without Conformity to preach in the next Parish-Church ? I cannot then be in yours at the same time . He that preacheth not , may hear you constantly : But he that may preach himself , must not cease his Ministry , to be still one of your Flock . We long ago published our Judgments , that It is a sin not to joyn with a less-worthy Minister , and a less-orderly Mode of Worship , when we can have no better ; And that it is a sin to tye our selves ordinarily to such when we may have better lawfully , that is ( consideratis considerandis ) upon terms whereon it will not do more hurt than good . You see then on what terms we may vary our practices , without the crimes recited by you . If now when we are preaching our selves , you will say that we are departing from you , ( because we cannot be in two places at once ) , and then come on with all these Calumnies , we take but this to be your meaning ; 1. To tell us that you think we so value the honour of our Names and Reputations with you , as that you can make us false to our Callings , rather than be censured by you . 2. That you have alwayes a Quiver full of such Arrows provided , and resolve , that if we will not give over our Ministry , and be ruled by you , you will make as many as you can believe , that we never had sense of Duty , love of Peace or Unity , or any good end , but meer slavish fear . So men , it 's like , would say of Christ , when sometimes he preached openly , and sometimes departed from mens fury into the Wilderness or obscure places ; Or of Paul that was let down by the Wall in a basket , and when he departed from the Jews Synagogues which he had before frequented ; or those that fled from one City to another . It is a duty to preach when I can , and no duty when I cannot : And if others make the [ can ] and the [ cannot , ] is it I or they that change my practice ? But if you teach men such apparently causless Censures and Reproaches , you may have many Disciples , but not very good ones . And some will thus paraphrase your words , [ If the King will not let us persecute them for preaching , we are resolved we will slander them , and make men believe ( on how hard terms soever they serve Christ ) that they do it all but as cowardly self-seeking Knaves . ] What abundance have called me Rogue of late years , that never knew me , or spake one word to me before , or heard one from me ! As to the rest [ That we proclaim our cowardise , or a love of licentiousness , or put on liberty for a cloak of maliciousness ] it all signifieth but what you have a list to say , and calls to us to long for the judgment-day of Christ , but yet to look well to the integrity of our hearts , and try our way before we go it . CHAP. X. Whether our Ministry by divisions will let in Popery . Sect. 1. I Love this Author much the better , because he speaks against divisions , and because he seemeth willing to draw those men towards him , whom others drive from them , and because he seemeth careful of our Protestant Interest , and desirous of some kind of unity to that end . But , alas , have we so many years ago besought his party with all humble petition and importunity , and disputed it with them ; that they would have pitty on the consciences of thousands fearing God , that they would have mercy on the thousands of ignorant souls that need all our Teaching ; that they would not cast out so considerable a part of the Protestant Ministry that should hinder Popery , and would not necessitate unavoidably those divisions , which by weakning the Protestants , would do the Papists work ; and under the sad denial of our petitions , must we now hear that ( the Pope shall come on the Puritans back ? ) That word [ shall ] we have bin long hearing and feeling . To be Masters of the Game is a great advantage for the disposal of other mens reputations in this World , a little while ; but in the next , the sport is spoiled . Sect. 2. And really , Will Popery come in ever the more for our Preaching ? ( do you think we shall Preach for it ? ) or ever the less , if we renounce our Ministry ? Why then will not your silence too prevent it ; and so we may all be silent le●t we preach in Popery . Sect. 3. But it is Divisions that will do it . No doubt of it , if it ever be done . Come and impartially debate the case with us , Who have bin the great causes of Protestants divisions , Conformists or Non-Conformists ? But I am ashamed to say that it needeth a debate . But O that you would yet repent of what is past , instead of reproaching those that you have afflicted ; And for the time to come , if we hav● not unity and peace , for my own part I can say , it shall be your doing , and wilful doing , to refuse it . CHAP. XI . Counsel to the Non-Conformists , Ministers and People . BRethren , you hear by this Author that the Conformists are greatly afraid of Popery , and that the danger by some will he said to be from you : but who ever taketh you for the Papists friends , the Papists themselves will never so esteem you . You see that some Comformists are desirous of peace and concord with you , for the common end , the Churches strength against all adversaries . God forbid that you should not be as forward to love and peace as they . I have these following counsels to give you before I go out of the World , expecting to have you ere long in a condition , which will require more wisdom , holiness , and fortitude , than I fear the most are yet possessed of . 1. Resolve by the grace of God , against all temptations , and through all difficulties , faithfully to ply your Ministerial work You see how much Satan is against it , and how he tryeth every way to hinder it : sometimes by force and fears , sometimes by flatteries , sometimes as that old Prophet seduced the other , by coming as in Christs name , as an Angel of Light , and by Ministers of Righteousness . He maketh not light of your Ministry , else he would not do so much against it ; O do not you make light of it . Our Ordination , Vow and Covenant is Holy ! If Ananias and Sapphira dyed for alienating consecrated money by a lye , what shall we expect , if we alienate consecrated persons by a lye : Souls are precious , sin is strong , Satan is subtile , the World is deceitful , the flesh is unreasonable , deceivers have great advantage , time is short ; O therefore work while it is day , for the night cometh when none can work ; Our own floath and sin is the most dangerous silence . How many souls feed or famish , live or die , as we do our duty , or neglect it ? Can you spare your flesh or labour , when you think what impenitent souls must feel for ever ; and what the Sanctified shall enjoy ? Would you not shine your selves as Stars in the Firmament ? Would you not be found by Christ so doing ? Would you not convert Sinners from the errour of their way , when it is the saving of a soul from death , and covering a multitude of sins ? What ever Word of God deceivers may abuse to stop your mouths , be sure that holy Covenants must be kept ; that Sacrilege is a sin ; that nature it self tells you , no man hath power to nullifie your Obligation to Charity it self in the work of mens Salvation ; that the love of God dwelleth not in you , if you see your Brother have need , and shut up the bowels of your compassion from him : Men may regulate your charity for good , but not destroy it . If the poor were famishing about you , no Law can disoblige you from relieving them . Be sure that necessity is laid on all the Ministers of Christ ( though not by the same way as it was laid on the Apostles ; ) and woe be unto them if they preach not the Gospel . Fear none of those things that you shall suffer : they are the prognosticks of your Crown : You shall judge the world that judgeth you : It will be joyful to hear , These are they that came out of great Tribulation , &c. Even Dr. Th. Jackson notably concludeth , that the reason why Martyrdom among Christians now , is rarer than among Unbelievers heretofore , and that more suffer not , as John Baptist did of Herod , is not because Great ones among Christians are not ready to do as Herod did , but because Ministers more omit their duty ; The dearest duty is the most gainful . 2. I beseech you , Study harder that you may now so preach , as that you may convince men practically , that you are really useful & needful to the World , and that your silence is a real loss . They that now take your labours to be needless , are tempted to it by the weakness of too many . They can scarce find in their hearts to say so of any Eminent judicious Men ; If when you have so long made the World believe that silencing you is a most heynous sin , you shal now preach so rawly , so incongruously so injudiciously , & unskilfully , or coldly , as to confute your selves , & harden those that were for your silence , how great will your shame be ? If you will be thought more useful than others think you , preach better now than others do . I really fear , lest meer Non-conformity have brought some into reputation as consciencious , who by weak preaching will lose the reputation of being judicious , more than their silence lost it . What now will you do better and more than others to prove that the Nation cannot spare you ? I expect not great Judgement & Learning in all the younger sort , nor those that in these times have bin kept from study , by labouring to get their children Bread : but verily the injudiciousness of too many among you , is for a lamentation . But the grand calamity is , that the most injudicious are usually the most confident and self-conceited ; and none so commonly give way to their ignorant zeal , to censure ; back bite , and reproach others , as those that know not what they talk of . I impute not this to you as Non-Conformists , but as sons of Adam : for experience hath convinced me , that PRIDE OF UNDERSTANDING , when men have little to be proud of , or confidence of all mens own apprehensions , is the vice of Men , Women and Children , when they are past eighteen years of age , which seemeth to be most desperately uncurable . Few sorts so silly , but are always in the right , and others erroneous in comparison of them : as Bedlams pitty the ignorance of their Keepers ; So that I fear not the prevalency of scepticism in the world ( though I fear infidelity : ) Self-conceitedness , I warrant you will keep it under . Such ancient as Ephrem Syrus , Macarius , Martin , &c. who were of little Learning but holy and humble , and presumed not above their knowledge , were honoured in the Churches : but when the Egyptian Holy Monks would shew their humble pride and ignorance , by tumults and zealous madness , to seek the blood of the Bishops , that believed not that God had Hands and Feet like Men , and to destroy those as ungodly that were not as foolish as themselves , what could have bin more scandalous against the honour of Godliness and Christianity ? 3. Over value not your own Preaching ▪ and under value not other mans , because they are Conformists . The number and necessities of the ignorant and ungodly indeed do make your labours necessary , were you less fit than many of the Conformists : but that proveth you not more able , or your preaching better than theirs . Partiality may make some of your own mind , think all well that you say , and all weak that others say : but the rest of men will the more despise you . Be not wise in your own conceit ; Look not every man at his own gifts and worth , but at the gifts and worth of others : In honor prefer one another : Pride is the first born of the Devil : and pride of knowledge and goodness is more common and pernicious , than pride of Comelyness , Wealth , or Greatness . Mark that Preacher Conformable or Non-conformable , who striveth hardest for his own honour , and would raise it by dishonouring others , and is most impatient of all that clowdeth him , and is onely for those that set him up ; and look out no further for a mark of badnes● , but take that man for one of the worst , how well soever he preach or pray . Except Christs Apostles had bin converted to the teachable humble state of little Children , they could not have entered into the Kingdom of Heaven , Math. 18. 3. You wear not the Livery of Christ , if you are not humble , and apter to think meanly of your own gifts and doings , proportionably , than of other mens . How unsavoury is it to hear a Non-conformist come from a profitable Sermon of a Conformist , saying ( to hinder the peoples benefit , ) This is poor dry stuff , and carping at every incongruous word ; as much as to say , I can do much better : Through Gods Mercy , some Conformists preach better than many of you can do . 4. Yet difference between Conformable Ministers , and own not the Ministry of any that are utterly incompetent and intolerable ; Hear them not ordinarily : for though I say not that all their Ministrations are nullities , yet I say that you should not encourage an intollerable undertaker , to destroy himself and others . By into crable men , I mean , First , Such as are ignorant of , or erroneous against the essentials of Christianity . Secondly , Such as are utterly unable to teach them others . Thirdly , Such as malignantly Preach down the practice of a holy life . Or in a word , those whose Ministry is such , as really tendeth to do more hurt than good ; from such turn away . Yea , where the Conformable Minister may be tolerable , in case no better could be had , yet if indeed his teaching be so trifling , and sapless , as is like to do but little good , let compassion move you , to take more liberty your selves to teach the people there , than under worthyer Men. Too many such young raw triflers , I confess I have heard my self : and I would not have order or humility pretended , to turn Preaching into a Ceremony , lest all Religion be next taken but for a Ceremony . It is a serious work , and must be seriously done . 5 If you live where the Conformable Parish Minister is faithful ( truly endeavouring the salvation of his Flock ) I charge you in the name of Christ Do not onely , if possible , as much as in you lyeth , live in love , familiarity and peace with him , but also do all that you can to maintain his honour , and promote his work . Be not Strangers to him : Distance breedeth uncharitable thoughts . If you hear or see any thing that you dislike , go privately and lovingly , and tell him of it : If any behind his back dishonour him , rebuke them . If he look for some superiority over you , and some observance from you , deny it not : It is a duty to submit to one another . You can tell a Prelate , that he that will be the greatest , must be the Servant of all : Practice as you preach . He that scorns to stoope is proud , as well as he that would have Men stoope to him . Live with him as a Brother and as a Servant , in meekness , humility , and gentleness of behaviour : And do not like our young passionate Persons , trample upon him , as if his Conformity had put him , as a sinner , below you as more Holy than he , and under the Magistery of your Reproofe . You and I think that he hath sinned : But he thinks that it is we that sin : And he that is without sin , let him cast the first stone . I charge you Love him , as your selves , and behind his back say nothing , and do nothing , but what is fit to testifie such love . Let all men thus know that you are Christs Disciples ; For all your Nonconformity , you are no better than he , if you be not more Charitable than he . If you set your selves in a dividing way , secretly to rejoice at his Disparagement , and to draw as many from him as you can ; you are but Destroyers of the Church of God : Call your selves what you will , I will call you Destroyers if you are Dividers . Yea much that else would be your Duty , must be omitted to avoid Division . The work of God , the good of Souls , the Defence of the Protestant Religion agai●st Papists , require your most conjoyned strength . And you are be rayers of all these , if you are Dividers . Suppose your selves as Chappel Curats under the Parish Ministers , and so in concord perform your work . 6. Therefore go as oft as you can to his Congregation , and hold Communion personally with him , and lead the people with you . Do not say , Now we have opportunity to do better , it is unlawful to joyn with them that do worse : For thoug it be not lawful for you to neglect your own Duty and opportunity , it is lawful for you by Deed as well as Word , to shew your Christian Concord and Communion : and so to do , may make it at that time much better which else in regard of the manner would be worse . Otherwise if one Preacher , pray and preach better than all the rest , all the people should be bound to forsake their Ministers & go to him as one that doth better . But bonum est ex causis integris : Disjunction and ill effects , your better mode of Worship worse . 7. Therefore in Parishes where all may well hear the Parish Minister , I would not have you , without necessity , preach at the same hour as he doth , but at some middle time ; that you may not seem to vie with him for Auditors , nor to draw the people from him ; But let them go with you to hear him , and after come and hear you ( or before ; ) But in London and great Parishes where all cannot come to the Parish Church , as also in Parishes where the Minister is not to be owned , I perswade you to no such observation : It is so inconvenient to the people there , to be cast upon unmeet hours , that I perswade you not to do it . 8. Where the Parish Minister is to be heard by you and your hearers , I think it best to preach ther but once a day , and at some neighbour place that hath most need , the other part . My reasons are , First , Because the people cannot hear and digest four Sermons a day , nor three well : and those that hear you twice , will not go to the Parish Church ; and so you will but draw them away , from that which might profit them as well as yours . And it is preaching well that more affecteth people , then Preaching long or often . Secondly , Because , alas , you will hardly live , where some Neighbour Parish hath not so bad a Minister , as that the people have more need of help ; and the rest of your pains may be bestowed on Week-day Lectures , as the people have leisure . 9. Therefore I greatly desire , that in such places you would bestow the greater half of your labour in private , in skilful exhorting people from house to house ? If you did not so before you were silenced , repent betime ; If you did , you have found the benefit of it . This is it , which few Conformists do , and in this you may best live as their true Assistants . Publick hearing without personal conference , seldom bringeth men to understand well what you say . Brethren , let me ask you , as before God : Why hath no more of this bin done while you were silenced ? Is it not too much Hypocrisie , to cry out against them that forbid us Preaching , which is one half of our duty , and in the mean time wilfully to neglect that part which none forbad us ? I speak not of them that were driven from all Cities and Corporations where their acquaintance enabled them , and forced to live where they had no such opportunity ; nor of them that through poverty had not time . But most men might have done more this way than was done ; This way the Papists have done their work . And it is very considerable , that most that come to your Chappel Meetings , are such as you take for the least needy , as being already turned unto God But from house to house you may speak with the more ignorant : for some of them its like will hear you . And sincerity inclineth men to that way of duty that hath least ostentation . 10. Preach Faith and Repentance , the common Catechism principles , ( which are of greatest need and use , and require the greatest skill in Preachers , ) and do not on pretence of going higher , trouble the peoples heads with unnecessary things , nor turn them after vain janglings : much less against Conformity , or any thing that reflecteth upon the Parish Ministers . You may quickly kindle in your Religious Hearers , a factious opinionative kind of zeal , that shall make them fire-brands in the Church , and no whi● tend to save their souls . And you may deceive your selves by exercising such an opinionative zeal , while you think you are doing the work of Christ . O how happy had the Churches bin , if instead of all the Schoolmens & old contenders curiosities of the Trinity , and all the blind disputes of Predestination and Free-will , and all the busle about Episcopacie , Presbytery , Independency , Anabaptistry , &c. the Churches had heard the Baptismal Covenant it self , with the Creed , Lords Prayer , and D●alogue well opened , and mens hearts had bin more fired with the love of God in Christ , rather than their heads heated with such controversies , as the poor people cannot manage , but only by unskilful Teachers , are tempted by them to be disturbers of the Church . 11. If there be any among your people , that by such a sinful unpeaceable zeal , will be censuring & deriding Conformists , Independents , Anabaptists , or any honest tolerable dissenters , and will be reproaching them behind their backs , and making them odious to the Hearers , rebuke them sharply , and cherish not their sin ; And if they hear not , rebuke them before all , and if they amend not , cast them out of your Communion : and as you love your selves , the Church and others , let not the proudest censerious people be your Masters : Take heed of that base complying humour , that maketh some they dare not displease them , least they should call them as bad as they do the Conformists . For if you come to this , it is the Women and Boys that have least knowledge , and most proud censorious passions , that will be the Church Governours . Keep your Authority , let them take it how they will , and be not servile followers of the peoples errours and irregular ways . 12. Possess your Hearers with true Gospel principles of Love , that they may be first pure , then peaceable and gentle . Preach zealously for Love , against love-killing envious zeal . Teach them to know that all men are imperfect and faulty , and so is all Mens Worship of God ; and that he that will not communicate with faulty Worship , must renounce communion with all the World ( and all with him . ) Unteach them that false conceit , that all Book-prayers are unlawful , yea , or all that is imposed : Read over to them those Psalms that have frequent repetitions and responses , that they may know that such are not unlawful . If it be lawful for the people to sing Gods praise , it is not unlawful to say it . Do you doubt of the consequence : Prove to us , what difference there was between the ancient singing , and our Laudatory saying , and you will find your task too hard . Unteach them that paultry principle , of placing Religion in being cross to the rest of the Congregation . As when they will not stand up at the Creed , or at all the Hymns of praise , when reason and use tell us , that standing up is a convenient praising gesture ; and when the primitive Churches ( from an unknown original , calling it an Apostolical Tradition ) unanimously commanded standing only , in all the Lords Days Adorations ; which because we cannot now well observe , it is decently confined to praises only . And in this the Conformists do better and more decently than you : and it is sorry perversness to fly from a better way , because that others use it . Unteach them their unwarrantable self-made Tests of Church Communion ; as if there must be any other proof of Holiness needs given , besides a sober profession of Christianity , ( that is , of the Baptismal Covenant ) not provedly contradicted by Heresie , or a wicked life : If we are Non-Conformists , because we cannot comply with all that we think to be invented uncapable terms of Communion from others , why shall we make such engines to divide the Churches our selves , and do the very things which we condemn in others . Unteach them their expectations , that all the Church must be satisfied of the sincerity of each Communicant ; or that the presence of the unworthy , who are admitted by their own false profession , or by the Ministers fault , doth make it unlawfull to others there to communicate . The Book called , The Cure of Church Divisions will tell you more such dividing principles , which you must unteach them . The Ministers that have bred and cherished these , have bin our subverters , and are our shame : and such principles are the shame of too many well meaning honest people . Woe to the selfish Teachers , that for their personal interest , dare not contradict them , but cherish them into their dividing errours ; when their eyes are opened , and they see their mistakes , they will be tempted to shew their own dislike of them , by running as far on the extreame of formality ; In a word , help to save and faulty , and so is all Mens Worship of God ; and that he that will not communicate with faulty Worship , must renounce communion with all the World ( and all with him . ) Unteach them that false conceit , that all Book-prayers are unlawful , yea , or all that is imposed : Read over to them those Psalms that have frequent repetitions and responses , that they may know that such are not unlawful . If it be lawful for the people to sing Gods praise , it is not unlawful to say it . Do you doubt of the consequence : Prove to us , what difference there was between the ancient singing , and our Laudatory saying , and you will find your task too hard . Unteach them that paultry principle , of placing Religion in being cross to the rest of the Congregation . As when they will not stand up at the Creed , or at all the Hymns of praise , when reason and use tell us , that standing up is a convenient praising gesture ; and when the primitive Churches ( from an unknown original , calling it an Apostolical Tradition ) unanimously commanded standing only , in all the Lords Days Adorations ; which because we cannot now well observe , it is decently confined to praises only . And in this the Conformists do better and more decently than you : and it is sorry perversness to fly from a better way , because that others use it . Unteach them their unwarrantable self-made Tests of Church Communion ; as if there must be any other proof of Holiness needs given , besides a sober profession of Christianity , ( that is , of the Baptismal Covenant ) not provedly contradicted by Heresie , or a wicked life : If we are Non-Conformists , because we cannot comply with all that we think to be invented uncapable terms of Communion from others , why shall we make such engines to divide the Churches our selves , and do the very things which we condemn in others . Unteach them their expectations , that all the Church must be satisfied of the sincerity of each Communicant ; or that the presence of the unworthy , who are admitted by their own false profession , or by the Ministers fault , doth make it unlawfull to others there to communicate . The Book called , The Cure of Church Divisions will tell you more such dividing principles , which you must unteach them . The Ministers that have bred and cherished these , have bin our subverters , and are our shame : and such principles are the shame of too many well meaning honest people . Woe to the selfish Teachers , that for their personal interest , dare not contradict them , but cherish them into their dividing errours ; when their eyes are opened , and they see their mistakes , they will be tempted to shew their own dislike of them , by running as far on the extreame of formality ; In a word , help to save Religious people from being superstitious while they cry out against superstition ; and make them know that a Religion which consisteth in our own modes and ways of worship , and in decrying other mens , may stand with all unmortified sin ; and that the flesh is no more denyed by sitting , than by kneeling , and that to say I am Godly because my gestures , and orders are more Scriptural than the Conformists , is a pittiful way for an Hypocrite to cheat his soul : and make them know that few things have hardened men against Religion , and made Non-Conformists a scorn instead of being helpers of mens souls , so much as to see that many place their Religion in superstitions of their own , Touch not , tast not , handle not ; and make it piety to avoid that as sin , which is no sin : and then men judge of all the rest by this . 13. And I will presume to tell you my opinion , as of a matter , not absolutely necessary , but at this time , of such convenience , as if I were to keep a Church Meeting , I would resolve upon it , as my duty : and that is , that your own practice now shew a sound and healing judgement about that Church troubling Controversie of Praying freely , or by Forms ; even that now you would seasonably do both . The contention about this hath bin childish , and yet a fire not yet quenched in the Church : while one belyeth God , as if he had forbidden all FREE Prayer in the Church ; and others belye him as if he had forbidden all Forms or Book-prayer : when God hath left both free , to be done as edification most requireth . His understanding is low that thinketh either of them simply unlawful ; and he knoweth little in such matters , that knoweth not , that both ways have many and great conveniences , and both have many and great accidental inconveniences , ( which having enumerated else where I must not now repeat . ) And they that are all for the one only , or the other only , shall have all the inconveniences with the benefits : but he that will seasonably use both , shall have the benefits of both , and the least part of the inconveniences of either ; Therefore in the Churches of England , free prayers were allowed in the Pulpits , after the Liturgy . And pardon me for saying , that when this petty controversie hath so much distracted us , those Ministers ▪ that use but one way onely , seem scandalously to the people to be onely for that way , and so do harden them in their errour , and keep the fire burning in the Church . He that prayeth only by Book or Form , perswadeth the poor people that free prayer is Fanatical , uncertain and unlawful : and they that never pray otherwise , perswade the poor people , that all Forms or Book-prayers are unlawful ; if a whole party agree in forbearing all Forms at such a time as this , when so many take them for unlawful . And so they corrupt mens very Religion , and teach them to make duties and sins to themselves which God never made , and thereby set them in a way of Hypocrisie , Self-delusion , and endless quarreling with others . I prescribe to no man ; and toleration so far taketh off publick Impositions , as that none can now say , This Form is imposed on me , and therefore unlawful . But ( though I will not bind my self ) I here tell the world , That if my strength and toleration , and a call should ever more give me opportunity for the free exercise of mine Office , I would sometimes pray freely without Forms , and sometimes use some part of the common Liturgy , and sometimes use the Reformed Liturgy , which in 1660. was agreed on by the Commissioned Non-Conformists , ( though being done in extream hast , it should be reviewed and perfected : ) I would ordinarily pronounce the Creed , ( as the Faith which the Church Assembleth in the profession of , ) and ordinarily recite the Lords Prayer and Decalogue , and read two Chapters and the Psalms : And they that would not joyn in this way of Worship , should freely go choose them a Teacher more agreeable to their opinions : for I would not serve the humours of any in their dividing errours . And Brethren , endure me to tell you , 1. That pleasing the ignorant professors humours , is a sin that sheweth us too humane and carnal , and hath always sad effects at last . 2. And that I confess to you I think your day is short ; and that it is now of more importance , what the future effects of your course will be to posterity , or those to come , than how it will take with your present followers . And when the History of this Age is written , do that now which you would have there recorded . My chief meaning is , This will be a controversie when we are dead and gone : Do that now , which being recorded may best tend to the right decision of it then . Leave to Posterity now you have liberty , that example ( as well as words ) which thou would have them follow . Tempt not future Contenders to plead that all Forms are unlawful by your examples . If any say , We shall thus loose our people , and the Separatists , who will cherish all such humours , will have them all : I answer , We have too long tryed the pleasing way already , and see that we cure not , but cherish their disease . Take Gods way , and let us deny our selves , as well with the humourous people as we have done with the Conformists , and then leave the issue to God. And if they will follow Separatists , it is fitter that they be mislead by such erroneous persons , than by you . 14. And on this occasion let me say a word to this kind of Religious people : Is it not a shame to you that your worthiest Ministers should be fain to go besides their own judgement in Gods Worship to humour you ? And that they must tell the world , We would mix Free-prayer and Forms in publick , but the people then will be gone to the Separatists . I say not that they go against their Consciences ; For their consciences have directed them to omit what else would have bin fittest , lest crossing your humour , it should drive you away to your own subversion : But how came you to be so much holyer and wiser than the Holyest and wisest of your Teachers ? Mark , is it not more of the Women and Apprentices that are of this mind , than of the old experienced Christians . Is it not a high degree of Pride for persons of your standing and understanding , to conclude that allmost all Christs Churches in the World for these thirteen hundred years at least to this day , have offered such worship unto God , as that you are obliged to avoid it , and all their Communion in it ; And that allmost all the Catholick Church on earth , this day , is below your Communion for using Forms ? And that even Calvin and the Presbyterians , Cartwright , Hildersham , and the old Non-conformists , were unworthy of your Communion : Would you have run away from Dod or Perkins , or from Cyprian or Augustine , and said , They are formal Fellows , not to be joyned with ? Doth God use by Miracle to make self-conceited Women and young Men , so much wiser than the most ancient studious experienced Divines . It is best then to turn Preachers before we grow old , and to avoid study and experience lest it make us more ignorant than we were . Brethren and Friends , I profess for your sincerity many of you are our joy , and it is not a little that we have done and suffered for your sakes ; But I must tell you ( for Adversaries will t●ll if you ) that for your ignorance , injudiciousness , pride , self-conceitedness , you are our grief and shame . We are hit in the teeth with such self-wise ignorant giddy unpeaceable followers , And we have nothing to say , but to blush , and say that you mean well , and that it is not long of us . Can Gods Spirit which ordaineth Elders to be Pastors in his Church , be the Guide of your judgements , when with such shameless pride you set up your errours against the knowledge of your Guides ? If you are wisest be you the Pastors , ( which some are prone enough to arrogate . ) It shameth us , it grieveth us , to see and hear from England , and from New-England this common cry . We are endangered by Divisions , principally because the self conceited part of the Religious people , will not be ruled by their Pastors , but must have their way , and will needs be Rulers of the Church and them . Yea , I tell you with truth and grief , I am confident ( next to mens own sin , which leaveth them to a judicial delusion , ) nothing hath done more to set up Popery , and the Prelacy you dislike , than the scandalous instances of your unruliness and Church tearing humours : And that you have made more Papists , than ever you or we are like to recover . Nothing is any whit considerable that a Papist hath to say , till he cometh to your case and saith , Doth not experience tell you , that without Papal unity , and force , these people will never be ruled or united ? It is you that tempt them to use fire and Fagot , that will not be Ruled nor kept in concord , by the wisest , and holyest and most self-denying Ministers on Earth . Even Ainsworth the Learnedest and Godlyest Pastor of the Separatists , though he went with them beyond Sea , and was of their opinion , and carded wooll to maintain himself while he was their Teacher , yet could not keep that one separated Church in peace . And must you , even you that should be our comfort , become our shame , and break our hearts , and make men Papists by your temptation . Woe to the World , because of offences , and woe to some by whom they come . I thank God , I speak not my own case ; I think those many Religious people that I have had the oversight of , are as ready to be ruled by me , and as undivided , as any that ever I have known ? But alas , in too many places it is otherwise : Should the Ministers in London , that have suffered so long , but use any part of the Liturgy and Scripture Forms , though without any motive , but the pleasing of God , & the Churches good , what muttering and censuring would there be against them ? And woe to those few Teachers that make up their designs by cherishing these distempers . One would think that their warning had bin fair . But — si nati sint ad bis perdendam Angliam — The Lord have mercy on us ! 15. Seeing places and numbers and other Church-circumstances are matters left to humane prudence , be sure that you prudentially discern the divesity of duties , according to the diversity of places and occasions . These things I here include . First , That you be not of those Church-tearers opinion , who must have all go just one way , in all those undetermined variable things ; And will censure all , and take them for dividers , that do not as they do . Secondly , That Edification or the Publick good is the end , rule and measure of these Prudential actions . Thirdly , That in looking to this rule and end , you must not look only to your present Congregation or the present Age , but to all the Churches abroad , and to posterity . Fourthly , That nothing here should be rashly done , but by great advise . Fifthly , That therefore other Brethren , ( as well dissenting as consenting Ministers ) should for safety be consulted with , not to be your Governours , but for Counsel and for Concord . Sixthly , To which end correspondencies of Ministers is necessary . 16. In those places where the name of a distinct Church , and that your administration of the Sacraments is like to do more harm than good , it is your duty to forbear it , and only to Teach . How to discern this , Prudence and Counsel must direct you : If there be a worthy Parish Minister , and the people are all or almost all satisfied ( or may be satisfied by you ) to communicate with him according to the liturgy , and if your own administration would stir up so much offence and hurt , as that the benefit cannot countervail it , the case is plain . But if you live in London , or where all the people cannot come to the Parish Church , or the Minister is intollerable , and the good is like ( on prudent advise ) to be apparently greater then the hurt , I know not but you may 1. Know your flock by name . 2. And take it either as a Chappel ( in some places ) or as a distinct Neighbour Church ( in other places . ) 3. Duely Administer the Sacraments . 4. And soberly and wisely use Christs Discipline . 17. Be sure that the Concord of all the true Protestant Non-Conformists Churches , be established upon the simple ancient Catholick terms , and not upon any self-devised Additions : That is , that all that own the Scripture in general , and the Baptismal Covenant , the Creed , Lords Prayer , and Decalogue in particular ( as the summary of Holy Belief , holy Desires , and holy Practice , ) be taken for fellow Christians , till it be proved against them that by Heresie or wickedness they nullifie this profession . This is the Rule and Test of universal concord . Here all agree : And if after this one Church will use Forms of Prayer , and another will not , one will Baptize Infants , and another will delay it , &c. they are differences that must be born , where Love and Reason cannot heal them , without breach of Charity , Concord or Communion ; yea in the same Church , such different opinions may be born , further than as those that dissent from the Pastors mode of worship , will separate themselves when none rejecteth them . We have all naturally a Pope born in us , and when men have never so much talkt against Popery and Prelacy , too many censure or run away from all that are not of their way . If any tell you that so wide an enterance will let into the Church Socinians and other Hereticks , who will mis-expound the words , Ask them again , First , Whether Baptising men is not a taking them into the Church ? And whether the Apostles and Churches for many hundred years , required any more of those that were Baptized ? And whether their business be to shew themselves wiser than the Apostles , and the primitive Church ? Secondly , Whether Hereticks will not subscribe to all the Scripture , while they misinterpret it ; And whether all the Scripture therefore be not big enough for a Creed ? Thirdly , Whether all Heresie be not a contradiction of some of the aforesaid Articles of Faith , and he that saith , I believe this Creed and all that is contrary to it , renounce not all Heresie . Fourthly , Whether all Laws be faulty which men can misinterpret ; And whether the Law must be changed and enlarged as oft as any break it . Fifthly , Whether all the Volumns of General Councils , be not yet too little by that rule , the sence of many being still controverted ? Sixthly , If we must have new Creeds and Church Articles as oft as Hereticks misexpound the old , whether it be not in the power of the Devil and Hereticks to make our Faith ridiculously alterable every year , till it grow intolerably voluminous ? Seventhly , And who is it that must be still the Creed-makers or menders ? And where will they stop ? And how shall we know when we have all ? Eighthly , Is he a wise Pastor , that readeth how the Churches have ever since the Council at Nice bin distracted with new Creeds , and yet will take no warning ? Read how Hilary Pict . inveigheth against them . When they vexed Hierome himself with suspicions of Heresie about the Trinity , ( because he was not for the term Hypostasis as a person ) his answer was , They ask me of my Belief ( or Faith ) as if I had bin New-born ( or Baptized ) without a Belief : As if he should say , Is it not a true and sufficient Creed or profession of Faith , which we all make at Baptism ? Why else are we Baptized ? Ninethly , Tell them , that Pastors indeed must know more than all the people : but not by having a new Creed or Scripture , but at their Oraination they are to give an account of a fuller understanding the same Creed than the people must do : And the Ordainers must examine them where they suspect them of Heresie . Tenthly , Lastly , Tell them that no more than this is necessary , at the door ; but if any after prove an Heretick , the accuser must prove it by him ; and what is the use of Church-Discipline , but to reform him or cast him out ? And Laws will not serve alone instead of Judgement . If they say that a Heretick may do much mischief before it can be proved against him , Tell them . 1. That it must not be Thoughts but Words that do mischief in the Church ; And Words are proveable . 2. That such proud tyrannical overdoers , have bin the Churches undoers ? And it is they that have done as much mischief as most Hereticks : And that they that will be so much wiser and better than God , as to keep out all Heresie by their self-conceited ways , are the men that let in Heresie and Impiety , and keep or cast out faithful Pastors , and are the Officers and Agents of the great Divider and Destroyer of the Churches . Let me add , Brethren , we that have lived in an Age , when the Engines of Church-Division have so sadly prospered , and have smarted thereby , and born our Testimony against them , are doubly obliged to leave this Testimony of ours to Posterity to warn them , that if possible they may escape the snare ; And therefore TO PUBLISH THIS OUR JUDGEMENT , and OUR OWN CONCORD ON THESE PRIMITIVE TERMS to all the World , as against the Romish tyrannical-uncertain-confounding Church-dividing , and still growing Articles of Faith ; Remembring that the same men that have made their Religion so big as that the French Impression of it ( viz. their Councils ) is too dear for the purse of a Non-conformable Minister ; can yet tell you that even ●aith in Christ himself ( explicite ) is not absolutely necessary , at least to justification , and that the knowledge even of much of the Law of nature as well as of the Gospel may not be absolutely necessary , as Sancta Clara , Deus-Nat-Grat . Problem . 15. and 16. proveth out of the Schoolmen at large . 18. Manage your Ministerial converse prudently and piously . The converse of Ministers is of great use , and therefore frequent Meetings needful : Use them to these ends . 1. To advise and prevent the effects of rashness or imprudencie in Church affairs : when every weak man hath the use of the wisdom of all his seniors , it is safe . 2. To preserve Concord , and prevent backbitings , animosities and sactions , and discordant scandalous singularities . 3. That young Ministers may be Learners as well as Teachers , and may grow up under the Helpes of their Seniors . I think therefore you may best thus improve your Converse . I. Often meet for fasting and prayer , to lament our former and later sin , and to pray for the Church of Christ and for all men ; for the King and all in Authority , that we may live a quiet and peaceable life , in all Godliness and honesty . II. Set up constant regular Disputations , ( not about trifles , nor with litigious licenciousness ) But about the grounds of our Religion , especially the differences between us and the Socinians , and Papists ; And this with School order , under Moderation . Because , 1. Too many of us are young and unstudyed in these matters , and little fit to deal with the Philistins Goliahs , and have great need to increase in holy defensive skill . 2. It will by the bounds of order prevent all contentions and wranglings , and medling with Rulers or other mens matters , and all loss of time by impertinent discourse . III. Counsel and Concord about Church practice must take up the rest of your time . And these three seasonably used Prayer , Disputation , and Counsel will conduce much to your growth and strength . But see that Ministerial Meetings turn not from Counsel and Agreement to Formality and Vsurpation of a Ruling power over one another , and so degenerate not into Synodical Church-tyranny ; much less usurpe the Magistrates right : For Synods ill managed have bin the Fevers and Pleurisies of the Churches . 19. Therefore be sure to keep out , both the Tyranny of Major Votes , and of the proud Magisterial self-arrogations of any individuals , that think all others must stoop to them . 1. When it is once thought that the Major Vote must carry it , an Ithacian Synod , will tyrannize ; and every weak self-conceited man , that hath nothing of sence to say against you will charge nine Learned judicious grave Divines with Insolency , if they will not be governed by ten that are unlearned or injudicious self-esteemers . Voteing is not for government , but for Concord ; And not to be used , ( lest it seem an appearance or introduction of usurpation , ) except in cases where meer Concord is your work . 2. But nothing hath more plagued the Church than the Pride and Arrogancy of some of the Pastors , that think they are wronged if they may not Rule . Think not that this Spirit is only in Papists or Diocesans ; Pride is the heart of the old man , and born in all ; And doleful experience telleth how it surviveth in too many Antiprelatical Ministers , of humbling principles , and unhumbled souls . Do we not know that the Pride of some among our selves , that must be All , and do all , till they have undone all , is the very thing , that hath silenced so many Ministers , and brought us to the state that we are now in ? There are some men that must only be heard in all debates , and seldom hear ; who are angry if they be gainsaid ; who think that nimble Tongues , or popular Interest , or grey hairs , must pass for uncontrolled reason . And they study to make parties , and set up their own Dictates , by passion or indirect contrivances : They can seldom debate a cause , but their spleen swelleth against those that say not as they say , but contradict them , and they secretly back-bite them to blast their names ! They note those that follow them , and those that oppose them , and make two parties of them . And all cometh from the common sin of man-kind , An unhumbled overconfident understanding . These men must first be meekly desired to be quiet , and to let you be quiet , and to remember that Non-conformists are not for self-obtruding Prelacy ; And that they are Brethren and not Lords : If that will not do , try by Prayer to prevail with God , for more of humility and peace in his Ministers . If that will not do , silently bear their importunity with neglect : If that do not , Meet without them : 3. And yet there is as great a mischief as any of these to be avoided also : Which is the self-conceitedness and Pride of the younger and the more injudicious Sort of Ministers , hindering them from following the Counsels of wiser experienced men . For though we must have no arrogant Lordly Usurpers among us , yet all that know any thing must confess , that in all professions wise and eximious men are few : It is but to few Divines that God giveth clear and accurate judgments ; And undoubtedly there is a three-fold Superiority and submission of divine obligation , 1. Of Subjects to men in Office over them . 2. Of the younger to the Elder . 3. Of them that have less knowledge , to them that have more . For Office and Seniority are but formalities , did they not suppose an eximious fitness by Superior knowledge . If therefore God endow here and there one man with extraordinary judgement , it is the wisdom and happiness of the times to know him , and to kindle their Torches at his fire : So did one Luther , one Melanchthon , one Calvin , one Erasmus , one Jewel , Whitakers , Reignolds , Davenant , &c. profit many . You may go a hundred miles amongst the less judicious sort , and miss of that light which one Amesius●ne ●ne Camero , one Strangius , one le Blanch &c. could shew the world . And it is the Plague of corrupted nature that Ignorance keepeth men from knowing it self , and not one of a multitude ( even of Religious men ) who are injudicious will believe that they are injudicious ; but every man is so much the more confident that he is in the right and others erre , by how much the more he erreth himself : so that few ignorant Ministers are teachable , but think that they are too wise to learn , because by office they undertake to teach : But through Gods mercy , my own converse hath bin with an humble sort of Ministers , which was the occasion of our unity and peace . And London and the Countrey have many such , who I hope will be able to resist the dividing attempts of the self ignorant and self-conceited . 20. Lastly , Spend this little time as in the way to speedy sufferings and death : Your present Winters day is short . Work hard : Live wisely : Suppose your tryal were the next year : Behave your selves as men that stand in prospect of the Grave : It is not likely that God will pass over twenty years wilfull divisions , wantonness , proud contention , self-distraction , scandals , and great sins so little repented of , that men cannot endure to hear them named , with so short or small a suffering as we have undergone . And the same Spirit yet blinding the guilty , and keeping some of the separating party in Impenitence , and working still by unlawful means to their unlawful ends , is the fearful Prognostick , that more of the old effects are to be produced by the old uncured cause . O be not partakers in the guilt and blindness lest you partake of the destruction , and dementation be the sure prognostick of perdition . But O Lord spare thy people , and bless thine Inheritance , and let not the weakness or willfulness of the Pastors or people , deliver it up as a prey to the Destroyer . And though our folly and scandal have made us a scorn , let it not turn to the extirpation of true Religion , and to the further advantage of Church-tyranny , Ignorance , or Malignity in the world . And if we the foolish sinful Pastors , have forfeited our honour and station in thy Church , let not the Tyrannical Foolish and Wicked , but those that shall be wiser , holyer and more faithfully and succesfully diligent succeed us . CHAP. XII . An humble Petition to the Conformists . Sect. 1. FAthers and Brethren , though I presumed to counsel the Non-Conformists as my equals , I will presume no higher with you , than to lay my self at your Feet , and humbly a second time to become your Petitioner for the souls of men , for the Gospel , the Church , and the interest of Christ . It is your Office to be Petitioners to mankind for Christ , and to beseech them in his stead to be reconciled to God. And a man might hope that one that should become a Petitioner to you , that your selves would not destroy that Church , might find acceptance and prevail . But Satan hath got so great advantage , that the wisest man living is uncapable of speaking rightly to you without offence . He that can draw men into great disgraceful sin , hath thereby raised a Bulwark to defend his work . To be silent and comply , is to be cruel to the sinner and himself , and who can do it that believeth Death and Judgement : To call men to repentance , is utterly to lose them by implying that they have sinned . O little did I once think that Repentance had bin so hard a work , when God offereth pardon of all other sins , against the Law of innocency , on so low and reasonable a condition . Sect. 2. It is not in my thoughts to confound all Conformists , as if there were no difference among your selves . I know that there are many sorts of you : I. There are some Learned zealous high Conformists , who think they have done good service to God , by all that they have done already ; and no doubt , were wise enough to foresee what they were bringing to pass , and are not , by any sober man , to be accused of doing either they knew not what , or what they did not suppose was good , and would countervail all that it should cost to procure it . Their work hath prospered ; And the hinder part of it is yet in their hands ; But it is also in the hands of God. To these Reverend persons , I have formerly spoken to their great offense . Sect. 3. II. And I would there were no Ministers so pittifully dark , and young , and raw , or so much out of love and relish , with things Spiritual , through the prevalency of a stronger appetite , as that their incapacity convinceth me , that I am not to expect much regard from them , as knowing with what ears they hear . Sect. 4 III. There are also some called Latitudinarians , who love not Fopperyes or violence , but are men of Reason and sober Conversations , though they are not so tender and scrupulous as the Non-conformists , but can break over greater rubs . Sect. 5. IV. And there are other Godly sober unwilling Conformists , who by the benefit of subscribing in their own sence , have stretcht themselves to do what they have done ; who conform on the terms of Mr. Sprint , submitting to what would else be evil , onely to obtein the liberty of Preaching ; ( Far be it from me to put in any selfish ends . ) Who are unwillingly Conformists , as the Westminster Assembly were , that after took down Prelacy . Sect. 6. To all of them that yet have ears to hear , I humbly present these following Requests . I. O be not too angry with those that censure you as sinners . I detest rash censoriousness : But you know men that differ in this world , about Speculatives , may differ about matters of Practice too : The Jesuists , Fryars and Jansenists do so , in not a few or little things . And in such a difference , one party must needs consure the practisers of the contrary , as sinners . If you and I differed about Usury , Stage playes , Gaming , &c. one party must needs think that the other side do live in sin . And who liveth and sinneth not ? Either the censure is true or false : If true , should you not be as thankful as to one that would save you from the Plague ? Will sin do you less hurt than censure ? If it be false , Consider 1. You are fallible ; and the notice of a possible pernicious danger , should be received with self-suspicion and thanks . 2. And you should love them the better for their aversness to sin , though they should mistake the matter of it . A proud heart saith swellingly , Am I to be accounted herein a sinner ? A humble person will say : Alas , I am too likely to mistake and sin : but if I do not , I will love , even a mistaken enemy of sin . And to deal faithfully with you , Had those honest Conformists of my acquaintance , but come first to the ablest dissenters , and impartially heard and weighed all that they had to say , and not secretly slipt into Conformity , as if they had bin afraid of hearing all , I should have bin the more offended with their Censurers . But God hateth sin , and so must all that truely love him . And they are our best friends that do most to preserve us from it . And they are our greatest enemies , that would flatter us into it . To Preach against sin , is your Ministerial Office : And if any man thinks that you make a solemn Covenant to sin , that you may have leave to preach against sin ; Yea , that you deliberately commit a great one , that you may have leave to preach against a less in other men , this man deserveth to be heard though he mistake . At Death and Judgment , nothing in the world but sin will be your danger : Unjust censures will be none . If we say nothing to you yet its easie to gather by the costly terms on which we avoid it , that we take conformity for a sin . And if any of the people carry it censoriously or contemptuously towards you ( which we abhor ) remember that you take them for weak and pievish persons : And honour or contempt is valuable according to the quality of the honourer or contemner : You take your followers to be the wiser as they are the more : And we bear their censures of us , and much more : And cannot you bear the censures of a few that you judge weaker ? You will proclaim the Non-Conformists to be the stronger Christians , if they can bear poverty and restraints , with the censure of the most , when you cannot bear the censure of the fewest , with liberty and Ministerial maintenance and honour . II. For your souls sake and for the Churches sake , Take heed of selfishness and Pride , lest it fill you with envy against your Brethren that serve the same Lord , when you think they any way diminish your reputation and honour . I would have others keep up your Reputation to the utmost ; which in the name of God , I charge upon them ; Yea , and in honour to prefer you : But if you think they do not , remember that you are the Servants of a Crucified Christ , who made himself of no reputation , but took upon him the form of a Servant , and yet this way got a name above every name . As sure as you live , contending for honour , is one of the readiest ways to loose it , and giving it to others , and contemning it your selves , is one of the surest ways to get it , It is its motto , Quod sequitur fugio ; quod fugit ipse sequor . Self-esteem , and Pride is odious in all : but in a Minister of Christ more odious , than in any man : but never so odious as when it riseth to such malignity , as to envy or hinder the work of God , because another more esteemed doth it . It is a sin that I am readyer to tremble to think of , than further to reprove . And remember what work it hath made in the Churches of Christ already . Read but what Eusebius , Socrates , Sozomen , Evagrius , Nicephorus , &c. say of the fewds of the old Bishops : Read but the Acts of the Councils at Ephes . 1 , & 2. of Chalcedon , at Ariminum , at Sirmium , at Nice , 2d . &c. and if horrour and shame do not overwhelm you , to think what Christian Bishops did , and that so early in the face of the Heathens , you are not men . Read but how Nazianzene was used at Constantinople , by a Synod of Orthodox Bishops , when he had overcome the Arrians : Read the Controversies between Basil and Anthymius , and others : Read the doleful story of Theophilus Alexandrinus , and the Egyptian Monks , and of the same Theophilus his manner of dealing against the Origenists , and of his double Letters and Present which he sent by Ifidore a Priest , to the Emperour and Maximus , to be given to him that got the better : Read the odious story of the said Theophilus and Epiphanius his proceedings against Chrysostome , and his ejection by a Councel of Bishops : Read the proceedings of Ithacius and Idacius and their Synods in Sulp. Severus : There is no end of instances : Read but the destruction of the many hundred Brittish Monks at Bangor , and the great suspicions that Augustine caused it . Look but on the face of the Greek and Latine Churches to this day , from the begining and cause of their divisions : And see what the Lutherans have done oft times against the Calvinists in Saxony , and other parts of Germany , ( as in Gasp . Peucers sufferings for one : ) And see what the Roman Papacy and Clergy have done in the world by Lordly Pride and selfishness : And lastly , See what hath bin done by it in this Land ; and at last learn by experience , and judge of Church-mens Pride by the effects . Brethren , what harm will it do to you , if a Non-Conformist preach by you ? if many follow him ? If some prefer him before you ? Do not others prefer you before him ? What if his followers think Conformity to be sin ? Do not you and yours think so of our Non-Conformity ? It is not your selves that you preach for , but the peoples Souls : And why may not Christs Gospel profit them from another as well as from you ? Nature teacheth men to relish their own food , and partly to feel what doth them good ? Clemens Alexand . Strom. 1. giveth it as the reason why the Church ( then , not now ) left it to every Communicant at the Sacrament , to Take their own part , Because man having free will , shall be the chooser , or refuser of his own good . If they choose a worse Teacher than you , it is not you but they that are the loosers : If they choose a better , you have your end , if you are Christians ; If you preach not so well as another , you are not fit to be Ministers of Christ , if you be not glad that another doth better , and is a blessing to the Flock . If you preach better , it s two to one but goodness will have an insuparable attraction : Or if mistake make them more capable of good from another than from you , should you not desire that they might have it ? Will you say , It is their partial humour ? I have heard many Ministers say so , that had reason to have said , It is my unskilfulness or dulness : But suppose it be so ; A Physician will let his patient take his Medicine from one mans hand , if he refuse it from another . The Father will not let the Infant famish if he will take no meat from him , but from the Mother . If the people had no faults or weaknesses , what need were there of you or other Ministers . I am as apt to speak sharply against the humours and weakness of Religious people , as most that are not envious and malignant . But I must give them this Testimony , that though many of them cannot well judge of judiciousness in their Teachers , yet most of them love a serious Preacher and a Godly Liver ; And few of them distast either Prelates or Conformists , if they preach seriously , and live Holily . But when in all the Countreys they see such Preachers and Livers chosen out for silencing , all the world cannot keep them from disliking such Bishops as shall do thus . I am most confident for those of my old acquaintance , that if they had seen Bishops ( after their long disacquaintance with them ) to have Preached and Prayed in a sound and serious Holy manner , and set themselves to promote the labours of Godly Preachers , and to encourage piety in the people and repress iniquity , they would generally have loved and honoured them , without respect to Presbytery or Independency : It is Godliness that Godly people care for . But since I and abundance about us were ejected , and since many of themselves have bin laid in Goals , it is no more in my power to make them love such Bishops , than to make them love the Goal it self . Yea further , Brethren , what if the Non-Conformable Minister do give the Sacrament to some , as you do to others ? What if they think their way best , as you think yours ? What if they call themselves a Church and exercise Discipline , ( which without need I would not have them do , ) What harm will this do to you or others ? If it do them harm , let them thank themselves : But to you it can do none , unless the unchristian sin of pride and envy cause it : or unless by reproaches and contentiousness they hinder the success of your labours ; which is another thing . I confess I have ever bin jealous of such Arbitrary Churches , where there is room for all in one Church , lest they should turn Anti-Churches and Theatres of emulation and contention ; ( which I charge all conscionable persons to abhor : ) But all this may be avoided at cheaper rates , than silencing so many laborious Ministers , or excommunicating all the people that are Non-conformists . III. Joyn lovingly with your Brethren , as Servants of one Lord , to promote one work . Look not strange at them , if they desire your friendship ; Yea , if any of them prove censorious and pievish , if you are the more patient , condescending , and forward to love and unity , and to further the peoples good , I shall take you for better men than them ; And so will all that judge by the fruits of the Spirit . Try this way instead of wrath , and I dare undertake that it shall more maintain your honour , with your peace of Conscience . Brethren , our great account is near : The Judge is at the door : It will be then comfortable to give a true account of Ministerial fidelity , and hear , Well done good and faithful servant ; rather than to hear , We have beaten our fellow Servants , or unfaithfully kept the Key of knowledge . The souls of your charge are many and precious : It is a hard and great work to cure one : to make one Ignorant person understand , one proud person humble , one infidel to believe , one worldling to become Heavenly , or one sensualist to be a mortified Saint : What help then do you need ; what labour is requisite , to bring a Parish of many hundred or thousand persons to this change ! As our weakness must make us all cry out , Who is sufficient for these things , so when one man hath ten mens work to do , he may well say , He is insufficient : In the first three Centuries , when one Congregation had a Bishop with a Colledge or Company of fellow Presbyters , they were not too many , though one onely could preach at once . I speak not uncertainties : We have tryed the Pastoral work ; and know by experience that a Parish of a thousand ( much more of many thousand ) families , hath work enough for many the most able and diligent Ministers in the Land : Yea , a Parish of an hundred Families , needeth more help than any one Minister is able to afford them : Try them all by personal conference house by house as we have done , and judge . Would you then have the people taught , reformed and saved , or not ? If yea , Would you not have necessary help to do it ? I cannot believe that man to know truely what it is to be a Minister or a Christian , that perceiveth not a necessity of help if he can have it : And if you had converted all now living , those that are born next will have need of as much labour as their Parents : For ignorance , sensuality and pride will be born with them . Thank God therefore that you may have help , and take it , whether you meet in one or two Assemblies : Help your tolerated Brethren in their work , as those that more desire the good of the peoples souls than they . Consult together for the removing of impediments , and for the strengthening of each other . And if any factious , or froward Non-conformist should happen to be your Neighbour , go to him , and by love and familiarity seek to win and cure him ; and you will win the hearts of all good people . And if he be really turbulent , and do more harm in the place than good , I am perswaded the rest of the Non-conformists will rebuke him , and disown him . I add , IV. If any difference between you cannot be composed , instead of troubling the people about it , quietly refer it to some indifferent Arbitrators . Is there not a wise man among you ? Must Abrahams and Lots Servants , separate them for a Well ? Must Paul and Barnabas part for different censures of another mans omission ? Shall Christians , Protestants , Ministers , the Teachers of Love , and Concord and Patience , be so weak , so selfish , so bad , such contradicters of their daily Doctrine , as not to be able to carry on Christs work in peace ; nor to make an amicable composure of their differences ? If you are Christians indeed , the difference is not who shall have the most followers , applause or honour , but who serveth God and saveth souls , in the right and true effectual way ? And may not prayer and consultation reconcile such a controversie ? For my own part I am conscious of pride and selfishness ; Yet I can confidently say , that when I had a Pastoral charge , where I needed many Assistants , if I had known where that man lived whom the people would have loved , honoured and profited by , more than my self , I would have rid night and day to get him to be the man : And when I have heard my Neighbour Ministers that were younger men ( I can scarce forbear naming them ) preach much more affectionately and profitably than my self , I have sate under them with tears of joy . But alas , What hath ten years silence of such men , deprived the souls of the poor people of ! I never 〈…〉 it meet with Saint Francis and the Fry●●s , to abase my self by going naked , or by taking on me to be an Awfe , or by filthiness , or ridiculous behaviour ; As if Heaven and a Swine-sty were most like : ( See Foulis his History of Popery . ) But I have thought it my duty to cast away deliberately and knowingly much of my Reputation , even with Religious people , by the discharge of such duty as I knew would do it ; Believing that Reputation is one thing to be resolutely denyed for Christ , and that he that saveth his honour shall lose it , and he that loseth it for Christ shall have everlasting honour . Brethren , there is no great matters to be done in the Church of Christ in the midst of so many corruptions and temptations , without confirmed Resolution : Resolve t● be wholly the servants of Christ , and to seek mens Salvation , and to take no thought for your carnal interest and honour ; And then the God whom you serve will take care of it . Think not that other mens selfishness or frowardness is an excuse to yours : Who knoweth man ; and knoweth not that pride and selfishness is as common as sin , that is , Is the last-dying heart of all our corruption ? Will you expect none of it in others , when you know ( if you know your selves ) that you have much of it in your selves ? 〈◊〉 dealing is not the Sign of enmity but love . 〈◊〉 must tell you , that we cannot but think that you need Repentance , great Repentance , for sinning more ( and that by publick , deliberate , chosen , covenanted , Ministerial sin , protesting against Repentance ) in the day when Judgements called us all to renew our Repentance for our former sins . But yet we suspect our own understandings : We know what different apprehensions of things good men may have : We know that we are great sinners our selves : We take not all this to warrant our censorious separations from you . But we beseech you be not too angry with us , for differencing between good and evil , between him that sweareth , and him that feareth an Oath . As long as we do it to the cost and suffering of our own flesh , which disputeth in us more cunningly and strongly for Conformity , then all the Durels , the Fullwoods , the Stilemans , &c. in England . We have naturally no more love to poverty , to scorn , to a prison , than you have : And why may not those that do nothing else almost say , that its like we study to know the truth , as hard as any of you all ? And the love of beggery , scorn and imprisonment , is not likely much to byas us . And if you think that our honour with our party doth it , you must needs think that we ( who so sharply reprove them , ) do think very highly of that poor despised party , when we prefer their opinions , not onely before your Magnates & Plures , but also before our Livelihoods , Liberties and Lives . Woe to the Hypocrite that hath no better a reward ! And why should we do it ? Were we not as capable of the more Noble and General applause as you , if we could have taken your way ? As we are none of your Judges then , Be you none of ours , but let us with Resolved unity ( though not uniformity ) serve that one God whom we are all devoted to . Remember that to Preach Love is your Ministerial work ; And to practice it is your Christian work . Resolve as much to maintain Christian Love as inviolate , even to Martyrdom , as the Martyrs did to maintain the Christian Faith. Remember Ridley and Hooper : You may come to Ridley's Confessions ere you die . We purpose not to Unminister you so much a● Gildas did his Brittains , nor to separate from you so much as Martin did to the death , from all the Neighbour Synods and Bishops , for a far lesser cause than the silencing of eighteen hundred Ministers . We take not you whom I now write to , to be consenting to this work . ( Though your silence and non-resistance , hath bred such thoughts of you in people , as we would fain have you cure by the contrary means . ) We are for peace : Be not you against it : But we cannot buy it , by deserting the Ministry , to which we were consecrated and devoted , nor by neglecting so many thousand miserable souls . Bring things in England once to that pass , that really our labour may be unnecessary , in the judgement of those that are not Infidels , Ignorants , or Malignant enemies of a holy life , and we will presently gratifie all that desire our silence , or our banishment , and will not trouble men with needless work . Thus , Brethren , you see , I have presumed no higher than to Petition you ; And that not to your cost or detriment ; nor for our preferment , wealth or ease : We aske you not for food or rayment ; We crave from you none of your Dignities , nor Estates : Though when I find this Author disswading us from our Ministry , because the people are poor , I think that reason might almost as aptly have served to perswade us to live no longer , because the world is too poor to keep us ; We do but eat if we preach , and so we must if we do not : And I think it had savoured of no excess of Charity and Ministerial ingenuity , if he had rather said , Brethren , you must perform your undertaken Ministry , and we and the peoples souls have need of all your help ; And the maintenance is given for the work , Therefore you that work with us , shall have part of the Church maintenance with us , at least a fifth part , as was allowed to the ejected by the Parliament , because the people cannot maintain you , and it is hard to serve God without anxiety , while your families are in want . This had better beseemed our Brethren ; but we crave and expect no such thing from you ; but only patiently to suffer us to live and labour by you , and let God provide for us as he please . And if we had expected that heretofore you had Petitioned our Rulers , for the liberty of our Ministry , it had bin no unreasonable expectation . All knew that our own Petitions had no hope : Ministers should of all men have bin most sensible of the Churches breaches , loss and danger , and most compassionate of the peoples souls : If you had but humbly acquainted our Rulers , That all our labours conjoyned are too little ; that you needed our help , and the ignorant our teaching ; That your own judgement was , that our Ministry was more necessary than our personal Conformity , 1. You know not but you might have bin heard : For no doubt our Rulers thought they did that which the Reverend Church-men did advise or think best : I hope you do not think that our civil Rulers would have done all that they have done against us , if it had bin against the Bishops and conformable Clergies judgment and advise : Civil Governours are never so cruel in matters of Religion , as the Ruling and exasperated Clergy are , as the Histories of all ages testifie . 2. Or at least you might have had the greater peace of Conscience , in all the confusions that have followed , and said , It is not long of us . And you would have acquitted your selves in the judgement of all your hearers , and they would have bin the less prejudiced against your Ministry . Had you Petitioned and prevailed but for these two things , you had healed all our breaches , First , That the door of enterance might not have bin barred by any other subscriptions , professions or Oaths , than what were used in the Churches of Christ , till the exaltation of the Papacy ( for 600 years , ) besides the Oaths of Allegeance and supremacy , and the subscribing the Doctrine of the Church of England , in the 39. Articles , according to the 13th . of Queen Elizabeth . Secondly , That those ( so subscribing ) who dare not use the Liturgy and Ceremonies , might have leave to preach in the Churches which use them , under Laws which shall restrain them from all unpeaceable opposition to what they dare not use , or to the Government of the Church . And having mentioned this , What if I added yet this clause to my present Petition to you ? V. That you will yet Petition for us , or rather for the Church of Christ , that upon the foresaid terms we may be , if possible , taken in to the established Ministry , If not , yet tolerated as Lecturers under you in such Churches , where the Ministers desire us , not taking any of their maintenance from them , but trusting God for our daily bread . By this means you shall have no need to fear our injuring of your wealth or reputation ; Nor the strengthening of the Papists by the weakening of Protestants through our-own divisions ; ( Onely let not the people who scruple Conformity , be therefore denyed Church-Communion and Sacraments . ) And now as God will judge , so let the world judge , & let posterity judge whether we are unworthy in comparison of the present Ministers of England , to be permitted to preach Christs Gospel on these self-denying and self-abasing terms ; And whether they that cry out of the danger of Popery . Infidelity , Profaneness and Heresies , and yet had rather let them in all , than give us leave to exercise that Ministry to which we were consecrated , in poverty and subjection ; and while they cry out of Divisions , will not lay by the Dividing-engines ; should rather accuse us or themselves , if the evils overwhelm us , which they seem to fear ? It is not pleasure , profit or worldly preferments , that we contend for : We would do no man hurt or wrong : If our lovers of Church-power do think us intolerable , because we obey them not as fully as they desire , we profess before God and Man , that it is not because we would not be subject and obedient to any , as far as will stand with our obedience to God , but only because we dare not , we will not do that which we believe that God forbideth us : And if we erre , it is not for want of studying , perhaps as hard and impartially as they , to know the truth : And to him that thinketh he doth evil it is sin . It is sin , and no small or tolerable sin , which our consciences fear , in our forbearing subscriptions and Conformity : If they also take it to be a sin to suffer us to preach the Gospel , and a greater sin , than to suffer the inundation of Infidelity , Popery and the rest which they say is ready to break in upon us , And if they think our not Subscribing , Swearing , &c. to be in us so great a sin , that the punishment laid on Swearers , Drunkards , or Fornicators , will not serve turn to avenge it on our selves , nor any other of our personal sufferings , unless the souls of many thousands , and the Protestant Religion , and our Posterity also suffer for it , the Judgments of God must be endured . But remember not Lord our offences , nor the offences of our Fore-fathers , neither take thou vengeance of our sins : Spare us good Lord ; Spare thy people whom thou hast redeemed with thy most precious blood , and be not angry with us for ever . And hasten O Lord Jesus thy more Righteous Judgement . FINIS . ERRATA . P. 13. l. ●● . the thing , p. 19. l. ● . del . 〈◊〉 , p. 28. l. 21 ▪ r. you , p. 45. l. 15. del . 4 ▪ p. 65. l. 6. r. work . p. 67. l. ●8 . r. by not only , p. 70. l. 3. for [ ? ] r. [ : ] p. 89. l. ● . r. intolerable , p. 9● . l. ● . r. make your , p. 108. l. 21. r. and renounce all .