The judgment of M. Cartwright and M. Baxter concerning separation and the ceremonies Cartwright, Thomas, 1634-1689. 1673 Approx. 45 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 16 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2006-02 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A35057 Wing C701 ESTC R21747 12121876 ocm 12121876 54455 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A35057) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 54455) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 591:8) The judgment of M. Cartwright and M. Baxter concerning separation and the ceremonies Cartwright, Thomas, 1634-1689. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. [6], 25 p. [s.n.], London : 1673. Includes bibliographical references. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Church of England -- Customs and practices. Dissenters, Religious -- England. 2005-07 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-10 Elspeth Healey Sampled and proofread 2005-10 Elspeth Healey Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-01 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE JUDGMENT OF M. CARTWRIGHT AND M. BAXTER Concerning SEPARATION And the Ceremonies . LONDON , Printed in the Year , 1673. TO THE READER . UPon this following Letter of T. C. there will need no other observation than what Archbishop Bancroft long since made , in these words : But it most of all pleaseth me to see , how Master Cartwright draweth homeward . For as the Anabaptists by their madness kept Master Calvin within some good compass , and as Master Beza hath been compelled in some sort , to retire himself from his former eagerness : so assuredly the phrenetical giddiness of these our new unbrideled Schismaticks , who for pretended purity are many degrees beyond all the Savoyan Disciplinarians , hath wrought a miracle ( to my understanding ) upon M. Cartwright . For hear him , how for fear of falling into flat Donatism , he was fain to plead against one ( that had been his Scholar ) in the behalf of the Church of England , so bitterly before by himself impugned . The ordinary assemblies ( saith he ) of those which profess the Gospel in England , are the Churches of Christ : which he proveth in this sort ; Those Assemblies which have Christ for there head , and the same also for their foundation , are Gods Churches : Such are the assemblies of England , Therefore , &c. Again , They that have performed unto them the special Covenant which the Lord hath made with his Churches , of pouring his spirit upon them , and putting his word into their mouths , are the Churches of God : But such are the assemblies in England , Therefore , &c. Hereunto may be added ( saith he further ) the judgment of all the Churches of Christ in Europe , all which give the right hand of Society in the house of God , unto the assemblies which are in England . Again , to prove that the Church of England is the Church of God , notwithstanding it want the pretended Discipline ; he useth this distinction ; that at it is in mans body , so is it in this matter ; there are certain-parts essential , and such as without the which a man cannot stand , and some serving either to his comelyness or to his continuance . And of this latter sort he maketh the Discipline . And lastly , he write , thus ; To say that the Church of England is not the Church of God , because it hath not received this Discipline , methinks is all one with this , as if a man would say , It is no City , because it hath no wall : or , that it is no Vineyard , because it hath neither hedge nor ditch . Thus far Master Cartwright . In which his manner of speech you find a very great alteration , from his anoient stile . And as concerning the necessity whereof I intreat , the wind you see is turned . There is no more necessity in England of the Geneva platform , than that every City in this Realm should be walled about . And besides , the pretended Discipline is become not to be any longer of the essence of the Church , but as appertaining to the comelyness of it . And a little after , And this I will add unto it , that if Master Cartwright would but confer with some that haves kill in fortification , to know of him whether an old thick wall of lime and stone , made many hundred years since , or a new slight wall slubbered over , and wrought with untempered mortar some few years ago , whether ( I say ) of these two walls are of better defense for any City : I should be in good hope , that he would in short time , leave the Disciplinary walls of Geneva , and content himself with the ancient fortifications of the Church of England ; and the rather , because he seeth what a giddy and itching humour his novelties have bred , in the unstayed sort of many fantastical people . Now to what M. Cartwright hath said in general to shew that there is no such necessity of Separation from the Church of England , as some of his followers now pretend : may be added the Judgment of a later Writer ( concerning those particulars which are so much scrupled by them , who under pretense of greater purity will needs cast out all decency and good order from the House of God : ) in a Book , intituled Five Disputations of Church Government and Worship . Printed at London , 1659. A LETTER of T. C. TO RICHARD HARRISON CONCERNING SEPARATION . Grace and Peace , &c. FOR so much as I left you the choice for the first conference , whether you would have it in writing , or by speech of mouth ; I attended some daies for Answer of that matter : which , because it was not returned , I esteemed that you held you still to the request of your Letters ; which was , to receive something from me by writing . For Answer therefore ; So it is , that your Letters affected me diversly : for where your first page had raised me up unto some hope , of re-uniting your self with the rest of your company unto us , from whom you have thought good to sunder your selves ; the second page , which layeth forth the condition of our peace , did cast me , and as were , beat me from it again . Howbeit , the mercy of God upholding me in some good hope of profiting you , or receiving profit from you , I thought to cut out this time of my weightiest and most necessary business , wherein I might give that contentment , which the Lord hath enabled mine hand unto . Unto you , not unwilling to come to us , the passage ( as it seemeth ) is stopped in divers respects : The short whereof is ; The receiving without publick repentance , of those which come from the Churches of England : where because in the outward profession , that the Laws of the Land do justifie the dumb ministry , there appear unto you no lawful assemblies of the Church of Christ ; your fear is , least in uniting your selves with such , you should be unequally yoaked , and made fellow members of some other than of that whereof Christ Jesus is the Head. First therefore , if it be shewed , that the ordinary assemblies of those that profess the Gospel in England be the Churches of Christ , it seemerh that the way will be paved and planed for mutual entercourse between us . Thus therefore it seemeth to be performed . Those Assemblies which have Christ for their Head , and the same also for their Foundation are Gods Church . But such are the Assemblies of England . Ergo , They are Gods Church . The Assumption is evident , in that , by believing that Christ is our righteousness , we are members of his body , and thereby are lively stones laid upon him as upon a foundation , and grow into one spiritual house with him . Now that they have like precious faith with us , is convinced , not onely by their own profession , but by the testimony of the Spirit of God , who by manifold graces poured upon them , doth bear them witness that they be members of the body of Christ , who as the Head hath partaked unto them his Holy Spirit , even to an apparent sanctification of numbers of them . They which have performed unto them the special Covenant which the Lord hath made with his Churches , by pouring his Spirit upon them , and his word in their mouths , are the Churches of God. But such are the Assemblies in England ; Therefore , they are the Churches of God. As touching the Spirit of God , it hath been said before : Whereupon it also followeth , that he likewise put his Word in their mouths , considering that the Spirit of God is not given but by his Word . And seeing that the Lord in mercy hath set up divers burning Lamps in those Assemblies , whereby light is conveyed more or less into all the parts of the Land ; it seemeth that the Church of England should receive injury if it should not be counted among the Golden Candlesticks , which serve to keep out darkness and night from the Lords House , until such time as the day-spring , and Lucifer arise in our hearts . If you say , All do not believe the Gospel truly , which profess ; The same exception lyeth against all other Churches , how reformed soever . If there be fewer faithful in our Churches , than in others ; The truth of the Church standeth not in number : for it there were in every Church one truly undissemblingly faithful , all the rest holding the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ in words onely , yet should all those Churches be to us the Churches of God. And if you say , that all those Assemblies , as it were all the branches and arms of the Candlestick , have not light set upon them ( the greater part of them being damped by a dumb ministry ) notwithstanding by the way you confess , that those Assemblies upon whom the Lord hath set up the lamp of a preaching Ministery , are the Churches of God : which seemeth to cast down that hill which standeth in the way against our rejoyning , whereby you cannot afford us the name of Gods Churches , because we have not the Discipline by him appointed . Now for that other , whether they have some glaunce of knowledge by that dumb Ministery or not , may afterward in another place be considered : For the present , I answer , That even those Congregations , for so much as they both have by some former Ministery or means which the Lord hath used towards them , received faith ; standing thereby in our Saviour Christ , as in the shaft of the Candlestick , and being members of the same body , they may well receive some supply of their wants , from the light that shineth in the next branch unto them ; for if every Assembly being without a lamp of the Ministery , should by and by be holden to be broken from the shaft of the Church-Candlestick , then at every vacation of the Ministery , and whensoever by death the Lord should put out one of his lights , it should follow , that that Assembly by the fall of their Minister into the grave , should from the highest heaven fall into the grave of Hell. But you will say peradventure , that an Assembly that hath a dumb Minister , is in worse case than that which bath none at all : If that be granted , it followeth not therefore , that the Assembly which yesterday , being without a dumb Minister , was the Church of God , should to day , having such a one set over them , be the Synagogue of Satan . And here , methink , when you go about to make nothing of the dumb Ministery , you ascribe more force unto it than it hath : for you make him not so much a guide , as an Head of the Church , as that those which before in all equal judgment were to be deemed members of Christ , by having of them should suddenly become members of Antichrist . I do not therefore yield unto you in that you say , they are the chief alway in the Synagogue ; our Saviour Christ , in whom those companies do believe , being the chief ; with whom through faith they grow to be one body , rather than with Satan by * hearing the dumb Minister , to be one with him . Say therefore , that it is a fault in them to hear such a Minister , thrust upon them ; yet that it is an Apostacy from God , and an utter falling away from the Gospel , I se not with what great appearance of truth it can be spoken . Moses , when divers of the people clave unto Coreh , Dathan , and Abiram , forsaking willingly the lawful and ordinary Ministery of the Aaronites , did not therefore cast them forth from the Lords host : And should the Churches of God , for hearing a dumb Minister , which is thrust upon them , forthwith be reputed for runagates from the Lord ? Again : The Lord is in Covenant with the people , to whom he gives the Seals of his Covenant . This he doth to our Assemblies in England . Therefore , they are the Lords Confederates . If you say , that the Seals set to by the dumb Ministery are no Seals , ( which afterward cometh to be examined ) yet you thereby confess , that those which are ministered by sufficient Ministers , are true and uncounterfeit Sacraments of the Church : whereby it falleth out again , that you seem to hold , that the Churches of England are not the true Churches of Christ , because they have not his commanded Discipline . Hereto may be added all the Churches in Europe , all which give the right hand of Society in the house of God unto the Assemblies which are in England . Which argument of Churches Authority , although it be not so strong as it will enforce , yet ought it to stay all sudden judgment unto the contrary : and so long to cause silence , until the Cause being ripely on both sides debated , the contrary of it which the Churches should do , through the lightsomness of the truth thereof break forth . And if it be meet to proceed softly , and as it were with a leaden foot , unto the Excommunication of one onely member of the Church of God ; there ought verily to have been great consultation taken , or ever the Churches of two whole Islands should have been cast out : especially , when they be holden in by Voices , not onely of divers persons , but of all the Churches to whom knowledge of their estate hath come . And if there were but one man worthy to be Excommunicate , yet if the greater part of your Assembly would not yield consent thereunto , I hold it , that the order of the Discipliae requireth that the rest are to bear the person whom they cannot remove : And therefore , though the Assemblies of England had deserved , through want of Discipline , and of a preaching Ministery , to be cast out from the accompt of the Churches of God ; yet being holden in by the Voices of the Churches themselves , ought to have been so far born with , as the communicating should not make them guilty of a falling away from the Lord. Now I come to those two Reasons whereby you think you may justly hold the Assemblies in England for no Churches of God : And first of all to the reason of the Discipline , for the want whereof you gave them all without exception the black stone of condemnation from being the Churches of God : Where it is to be understood , that as in a Man there are certain parts essential , and such as without which the man cannot stand ; and other some serving to his comelyness , or to his long continuance : So it is in this matter ; there is the foundation , CHRIST , whereupon it is necessary that by faith the Assemblies be laid , which groweth unto the Lords building , without the which it cannot be his Church ; which thing being , whatsoever is wanting of that which is commanded , or remaining of that which is forbidden , is not able to put that Assembly , which by faith is laid upon Christ , from the right and title of being the Church of Christ : for Faith can admit no such thing , which giveth an utter overthrow and turning upside down of the truth . By this title of the Faithful , the Apostle in his Epistles noteth out the Churches of God , it being all one with him to say , To the Faithful , or To the Saints , as To the Church of such a place . Whatsoever wanteth unto this , or is more than enough , that wanteth or aboundeth to the disgrace or uncomelyness , or to the hazard of continuance , and not to the present overthrow of the Church . Hereupon the people of Israel , which neglected for the space of forty years the holy Sacrament of Circumcision , and the Passeover also as it seemeth ( one onely time excepted ) ceased not therefore to be the Churches of God , and to have the Sanctuary among them . And in this respect the Dutch Assemblies , whereof the greatest part in High Germany ( which , beside the main of Discipline , which is common to our Churches , are groslly deceived in the matter of the Supper ) are notwithstanding holden in the Roul of the Churches of God. In this respect also , certain Assemblies of our Profession , which having the use of the Discipline permitted unto them , are not suffered to have the use of the Lords Supper , are not therefore ( when the Lords Churches are mustered , and their names written and enrouled up ) cast out as unfit to be in any accompt of the Lords hosts . Without any part of that Order or Discipline which the Lord hath appointed , I grant there can be no Church of Christ ; or , that without some part of it , there can be no faith in Jesus Christ : It is a part of the Discipline of our Saviour Christ , that there should be certain which should be chosen out of the rest to preach the Gospel , by preaching whereof the Churches are gathered together : Where therefore there is no Ministery of the Word , there it is plain , that there are no visible and apparent Churches . It is another piece of the Discipline of the Lord , that the rest of the body of the Church should obey those that are set over them in the Lord : wheresoever therefore there is no obedience of the people to the Ministers , that in the Lords name preach unto them , there can be no true Church of Christ . But where these two be , although other points want , yea although there be some defect in these , that neither the Ministers do in all points preach as they ought , nor the Assemblies in all points obey unto the wholesome doctrine of their Teachers ; yet do they ( for the reason above-said ) retein the right of the Churches of God. This is made plain by a similitude from the body of a man , whereinto we are already entred : For if a man should have both his hands and his arms cut off , his eyes put out , &c. yet as long as the head standeth , and other vital parts , he is to be accompted a Man , although a maimed man : Even so it is in the Assembly ; as long as it holdeth the head , how defective soever it is otherwise , it hath the due and right of the Church of God. And although a man should have six fingers in one hand , and but three in another , and albeit they should stand where the mouth doth ; yet all this deformity should not hinder him from being truely holden to be a Man , although it should be a great deformity in him . On the other part , if he had no Head at all , or that there were no natural conjunction of the parts one with another , but a whole and through displacing of every part from his proper seat ; then verily would he be denyed to have either the proportion of a Man , or his life . So likewise if an Assembly should not hold the Head , which is Jesus Christ , or be nothing elss but a confused multitude , without part of the order which the Son of God hath appointed , the same is justly crossed out of the accompt of Gods Church . Was not Jerusalem , after the return from Babylon , the City of the great King , until such time as Nehemiah came and builded the Walls of the City ? To say therefore , it is none of the Church of God , because it hath not received the Discipline , metthinks it is all one with this , as if a man should say , It is no City because it hath no Wall , or that it is no Vineyard because it hath neither ditch nor hedge . It is not , I grant , so sightly a City , or Vineyard , nor yet so safe against the invasion of their several enemies which lye in wait for them ; yet are they truely both Cities and Vineyards . There remaineth that other point , which is against those Assemblies onely which have a dumb Minister : wherein the part of your conclusion , That that Assembly where they be , is none of the Church of God , is before answered . Therein resteth that part of your conclusion , whereby you infer , That the Sacraments ministred by them are none of Gods Sacraments , and therefore that a man may not receive any part of them at their hands . Here first I agree with you , that their Ministery is unlawful , and to themselves , without repentance , a certain matter of destruction ; especially in those to whom knowledge of corruption is come : to the Churches where they be , presently hurtful , and in the end without remedy , deadly : But that they are no Ministers of God , so far as to receive the good they offer unto us , that ( I suppose ) I may not yield unto : The ground whereof I take from the former part of my Answer ; That for so much as they are allowed by the Churches of God , they ought , until remedy may be found of so great disorder , to be heard and retained so far as they can give us any thing that is of Christ : And for this cause our Saviour commanded , that the Scribes should be heard , for that they taught truely ; which honour our Saviour would never have given unto them , unless the Church-calling had moved him thereunto : Neither had it been lawful for the people otherwise to have heard them ; for it is evident that their unfitness and unlawfulness in the Ministery ( although another way ) was as great as it is in our reading Ministers . They were altogether deceived in the Messias ; for neither knew they that Jesus was Christ ; nor yet that Christ , whom they looked for , should be the Son of God , but held him for a bare and naked man. It appeareth also that they taught the Justification by the Law of Works , not onely in the 18. of Luke , but even in the same very place , where our Saviour Christ commandeth this audience : for speaking of the works of the moral Law , which they would not touch with one of their fingers , he saith , that they laid them upon the peoples backs as burthens which cannot be born : whereby our Saviour ( beside their Pharisaical pride and lordlyness in teaching ) signifieth that they taught them to Justification ; seeing that if they had onely taught them as testimonies and fruits or faith , they had not been intolerable , bur , as our Saviour Christ saith , an easie yoke , and as S. John saith , not grievous nor heavy . Now the dumb Ministery is not farther off from the justification of a lawful Ministery , than to teach untruely in the chief grounds , of Religion ; neither is the edifying of the Church respected in making Laws for the Ministery , less hindred by an unpreaching Ministery . And according to this saying of our Saviour Christ , we may see what the practice of the Prophets had been before ; who although they had oftentimes to do with false teachers and Priests that were dumb dogs and not able to bark , yet ( giving the people warning of their corruptions and insufficiencies , threatning also the casting of them from their Ministery , in that good time when the Lord shall take pity on his Church ) they are never found to have forbidden the people to have come unto their sacrifices commanded by the Law unto them . Yea our Saviour Christ that lived in the corruptest times of the Church , and when things were most confused , and fewest steps of any lawful Calling to be seen , yet commanded he the man whom he purged from Leprosie , to shew himself to the Priests generally , without willing him to make choice of a Priest better instructed or affected to the truth than the rest . The high Priest , although he entred by Simony and reward to the Romans , yet notwihstanding we see our Saviour Christ bore him reverence for his office sake , and ( as before his Judge in Spiritual Causes ) gave an accompt of his doctrine . We have another example of reverence given to such Rulers , even in things that were done by them wrongfully . For Jeremy being for a time suspended from coming into the Temple , being at liberty would not ( least , as it seemeth , he should make a tumult ) enter the Temple ; and therefore ( having written that which he had to say ) sent Baruch to read his Sermon in the Temple . Moreover , when a Magistrate is not able to do some part of his office , as for example , being able to do the duties which are to be performed in peace , is insufficient for Martial affaire , yet no man refuseth that which he is able to give , because he is not able to do all that is required : Even so , endeavouring to our uttermost a sufficient Ministery , I would think in the mean season , that the good things they are able to give us , may be taken at their hands . And if any man say , that it is of the substance of a , Church-Minister , to be able to teach ; and therefore that he is no Minister , that hath not that ability : It may be answered , that it is of the substance of a good and lawful Minister of God , but not simply of a Minister ; whereunto it is sufficient to have the Churches calling : As it is of the substance , rather of a lawful Magistrate , to be able to judge between his Subjects , than simply of a Magistrate , whom the election of the people , or of other to whom his choice belongeth , maketh a Magistrate of the Lord , although he be no lawful nor sufficient Magistrate . As therefore we call him a Magistrate , who for the ignorance of his charge may be called an Idol Magistrate ; even so it seemeth that he may be holden for a Minister , which hath his Churches Calling , although he be not able to do the principal charge of the Ministery . Neither doth the place of the Prophet Hosee , which saith , because they have refused knowledge , they shall be no Priests unto the Lord , stand against this : the Prophet rather giving a rule to follow in the election or disposition of them , shewing how far they may be used . Finally , to that which is objected of communicating with their impiety , in any taking any thing at their hands : I Answer , the same might have been laid to the peoples charge under the Law ; which is never done by the Prophets . Secondly , if by communicating with him , we should make him Minister , I grant that a piece of his guilt would stick to our fingers : but when that is not , I see not how , by receiving the Sacrament of him , we partake more of his wickedness , than the Son is partaker of his Fathers murther , because he receiveth of his Fathers gift some part of his lands or moveables : And so much the less there than here , as the Father giveth his own things , whereas the dumb Minister doth onely dispense the gifts of the Lord. Wherefore it may be rather feared , lest in refusing the Sacraments offered by him , we put the Lord away from us , whose they be ; than in taking of the Sacraments at his hands , be partakers of impiety , which is the mans , and can take no hold of the Sacraments in any sort . For even as I , not able to avoid him , may communicate with a Minister , that is an Adulterer , without being partaker of his Adultery ; so also may I communicate with a dumb Minister and yet nevertheless be free from his impiety . Thus you have mine Answer , written not without the fear and trembling your selves make mention of ; whereby it will not be hard for you to understand , how both our desires of being united together may be performed : And although I write in good assurance , especially in the former part as touching the rightful title of the Churches of Christ to be due to the Assemblies of England ; yet remembring ( beside the common frailties of our whole race ) special breaches and decaies in my self , I willingly hearken to any , much more to you ( whom the Lord hath bestowed good graces upon ) shewing better things : for which cause if further conference be needful , I must through business be forced to refer to conference by mouth some time after diner . And thus with most humble prayers to the Lord our God for his Holy Spirit , where-through we may be able to discern the things that differ , to our inoffensive walking in the sight of all men , even to the day of the Lord , I bid you farewel . Yours Thomas Cartwright . THE JUDGMENT OF Mr. Baxter CONCERNING CEREMONIES AND CONFORMITY . THose Modes or Circumstances of Worship which are Necessary in Genere , but left undetermined by God in Specie , are left by God to humane Prudential Determination : ( else an Impossibility should be necessary . ) But many such there are , that are Necessary in Genere , but left undetermined of God in Specie ; therefore many such are left to humane Prudential Determination . § . 5. Yet it is in the power of a man to determine of such Modes and Circumstances as are necessary to the performance of that Worship which God hath instituted in his Word ; and therefore lawful Governors may in such cases bind us by their Commands . 1. It is left to humane Determination , what Place the Publick Assemblies shall be held in . 2. It is left to man to determine of the Time of Holy Duties , except only where God hath determined of it already . 3. It is left to the Determination of humane Prudence , what Vtensils to employ about the Publick Worship of God. Here therefore we must thus conclude , 1. That every misordering of such great affairs , is the sin of them that do it . 2. But yet that the Subject is not exempted from Obedience by every such mistake of the Governor : but by some he is . § . 67. If the mischoosing of such Circumstances , by Church Governors , be but an Inconvenience , and do not destroy the Ordinance it self , or frustrate the Ends of it , we are to obey : 1. For he is the Judge of his own work , and not we : 2. The thing is not sinful , though inconvenient : 3. Obedience is commanded to our lawful Governors . We must obey in all things lawful . And when we do obey in a Case of Miscommanding , it is not a doing evil , that good may come of it , as some do misconceive : but it is only a submitting to that which is ill commanded , but not evil in him that doth submit . It is the Determiner that is the cause of the Inconvenience , and not the Obeyer . Nor is it inconvenient for me to Obey , though it be worse perhaps to him that Commandeth . While he sinneth in Commanding , he may make it my Duty to Obey . § . 6. Dist . 4. We must distinguish between Ceremonies imposed by a Lawful Magistrate , or Church-Governors ; and such as are imposed by Vsurpers , or Men without Authority . § . 25. Prop. 12. It may be very sinful to command some Ceremonies , which may lawfully , yea , must in Duty be used by the Subject when they are commanded . § . 27. Prop. 14. Yet certain things that are commonly called Ceremonies , may lawfully be used in the Church upon Humane Imposition ; and when it is not against the Law of God , no person should disobey the Commands of their Lawful Governors in such things . Of Set-Forms , and the Book of Common-Prayer . Prop. 1. A Stinted Liturgy is in it self Lawful . 2. A Stinted Liturgy in some parts of Publick Service , is ordinarily necessary . 3. In the parts where it is not of Necessity , it may not onely be submitted to , but desired , when the Peace of the Church requireth it . 7. The safest way of Composing such a Publick Form , is , to take it all , for Matter and Words , out of the Holy Scriptures . 8. Yet is not this of such Necessity , but that we may joyn in it , or use it , if the Form of Words be not from Scripture . Prop. 1. A Stinted Liturgy is in it self Lawful This is thus proved : Argument 1. That which is not directly , or consequentially forbidden by God , remaineth lawful : A stinted Liturgy is not directly , or consequentially forbidden by God ; therefore it remaineth lawful . The Major is undoubted's because nothing but a Prohibition can make a thing unlawful . Sin is a transgression of a Law : where there is no Law , there is no Trangression : And yet I have heard very Reverend men answer this , That it is enough that it is not commanded , though not forbidden . Which is plainly to deny both Scripture and Civil Principles . Now for the Minor , That a stinted Liturgy is not forbidden , we need no other proof , than that no Prohibition can be produced . Argument 6. If it be lawful for the People to use a stinted Form of Words in Publick Prayer , then is it in it self lawful for the Pastors : but it is lawful for the People : for the Pastors prayer ( which they must pray over with him , and not onely hear it ) is a stinted Form to them , even as much as if he had learnt it out of a Book . They are to follow him in his Method and Words , as if it were a Book-Prayer . Argument 7. It is lawful to use a Form in Preaching : therefore a stinted Liturgy is lawful . 1. Because Preaching is a part of that Liturgy . 2. Because the reason is the same for Prayer , as for that , in the main . Argument 8. That which hath been the practice of the Church in Scripture-times , and down to this day , and is yet the practice of almost all the Churches of Christ on earth , is not like to be unlawful : but such is the use of some stinted forms of Publick Service : therefore , &c. That it was so in the Jews Church , and approved by Christ , I have shewed . That it hath been of ancient use in the Church since Christ , and is at this day in use in Africk , Asia , Europe , even among the Reformed Churches in France , Holland , Geneva , &c. is so well known , that I think I need not stand to prove it : yea , those few that seem to disuse it , do yet use it , in Psalms , and other parts of Worship . As for the Common-Prayer it self , I never rejected it because it was a Form , nor thought it simply unlawful because it was such a Form ; but have made use of it , and would do again in the like case . Of Ceremonies . The Ceremonies controverted among us , were especially , The Surplice , the Gesture of Kneeling in receiving the Lords Supper , the Ring in Marriage , Laying the hand on the Book in taking an Oath , the Organs and Church-Musick , Holy-dayes , Altars , Rails , and the Cross in Baptisme . Of the Surplice . Some decent Habit is necessary ; either the Magistrate , or the Minister himfelf , or the Associatcd Pastors must determine what . I think neither Magistrate nor Synod should do any more than hinder Undecency : But yet if they do more , and tye all to One Habit ( add suppose it were an undecent Habit ) yet this is but an imprudent use of Power . It is a thing within the Magistrates reach ; he doth not an aliene work , but his own work amiss : and therefore the thing in it self being lawful ; I would obey him , and use that garment , if I could not be dispensed with . Yea , though Secondarily the Whiteness be to signifie Purity , and so it be made a teaching sign , yet would I obey . Of Kneeling at the Sacrament . But yet , as sinfully as this Gesture was imposed , for my part I did obey the Imposers , and would do , if it were to do again , rather than disturb the Peace of the Church , or be deprived of its Communion . For God having made some Gesture necessary , and confined me to none , but left it to Humane Determination , I shall submit to Magistrates in their proper work , even when they miss it in the manner . I am not sure that Christ intended the example of himself and his Apostles , as obligatory to us that shall succeed . I am sure it proves sitting lawful ; but I am not sure that it proves it necessary : ( though very convenient . ) But I am sure , he hath commanded me Obedience and Peace . Of the Ring in Marriage . And for the Ring in Marriage , I see no reason to scruple the lawfulness of it : For though the Papists make a Sacrament of Marriage , yet we have no reason to take it for any Ordinance of Divine Worship ; any more than the solemnizing of a Contract between a Prince and People . All things are sanctified and pure to the pure . Of Organs and Church Musick . And for Organs , or other Instruments of Musick in Gods Worship , they being a Help partly Natural , and partly Artificial , to the exhilerating of the spirits , for the praise of God , I know no argument to prove them simply unlawful , but what would prove a Cup of Wine unlawful , or the tune and meeter , and melody of singing unlawful . Of Holy-Dayes . Nor for my part do I make any scruple * to keep a Day in Remembrance of any Eminent Servant of Christ , or Martyr , to praise God for their Doctrine or Example , and honour their Memorial . But the hardest part of the Question is , Whether it be lawful to keep Dayes , in celebrating the Memorial of Christs Nativity , Circumcision , Fasting ; Transfiguration , Ascension , and such like ? And yet for all this I am resolved , if I live where such Holy-days as these are observed , to censure no man for observing them ; nor would I deny them Liberty to follow their judgments , if I had the power of their Liberties ; provided they use not reproach and violence to others ; and seek not to deprive them of their Liberties . Yea more , I would not onely give men their Liberty in this , but if I lived under a Government that peremptorily commanded it , I would observe the outward rest of such a Holy-day , and I would preach on it , and joyn with the Assemblies in Gods Worship on it . Yea , I would thus observe the Day , rather than offend a weak Brother , or hinder any mans salvation , much more rather than I would make any division in the Church . Of Altars , and Rails . And for the next Ceremony , the Name and form of an Altar ; no doubt it is a thing indifferent , whether the Table stand this way , or that way : and the Primitive Churches used commonly the names of Sacrifice , and Altar , and Priest , and I think , lawfully : for my part I shall not be he that shall condemn them . I conceive that the dislike of these things in England ( the form and name of an Altar , and the Rails about it ) was not as if they were simply evil . Whether we shall receive the Lords Supper at a Table , or in our Seats ; and whether the Table shall be of wood or stone ? whether it shall be round , or long , or square ? whether it shall stand in the East or West-end of the Temple , or in the middle ? whether it shall have Rails , or no Rails ? All these are lest to Humane Prudence . Of the Cross in Baptism . But of all our Ceremonies , there is none that I have more suspected to be simply unlawful , than the Cross in Baptism . Yet I dare not peremptorily say , that it is unlawful : nor will I condemn either Ancients or Moderns that use it : nor will I make any disturbance in the Church about it , more than my own forbearance will make . I presume not to censure them that judge it lawful ; but onely give the Reasons that make me doubt , and rather think it to be unlawful , though still with a suspicion of my own understanding . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A35057-e60 Surv. of pretend . Discipl . c. 34. p. 447. Th. Cartw. to Harrisen . Notes for div A35057-e490 1. Reason . 2. Reason . * having . 3. Reason . Of Assemblies of dumb Ministers . Mat. 23. 2. Joh. 9. 22. Mat. 22. 42. Mat. 11. Joh. 5. Isa . 56. Mat. 8. Jer. 36. 19. Hos . 4. 6. Notes for div A35057-e3130 Disp . 4. P. 361. Disp . 5. P. 400. Ibid. P. 401. Ibid. P. 423. P. 424. P. 396. P. 398. Disp . 4. P. 358. P. 359. P. 361. P. 364. P. 421. P. 409. P. 409. P. 411. P. 411. P. 412. * In point of Lawfulness ; For Conveniency is according to several accidents . P. 412 , 413. P. 416. P. 417. Ibid. P. 417. P. 401 , 402. P. 417. P. 418.