A just rebuke to one & twenty learned and reverend divines (so called) being an answer to an abusive epistle against the people call'd Quakers subscrib'd by : Thoman Manton, Thomas Jacomb, John Yates, John Sheffield, Anthony Palmer, Thomas Cole, Thomas Doelittel, Richard Baxter, William Cooper, George Griffith, Matthew Barker, John Singleton, Andrew Parsons, Richard Mayo, Thomas Gouge, William Jenkyn, Thomas Watson, Benjamin Needler, William Carslake, Stephen Ford, Samuel Smith / by William Penn. Penn, William, 1644-1718. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A54003 of text R208998 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing P1131). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 83 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A54003 Wing P1131 ESTC R208998 13048325 ocm 13048325 96942 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A54003) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 96942) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 748:20) A just rebuke to one & twenty learned and reverend divines (so called) being an answer to an abusive epistle against the people call'd Quakers subscrib'd by : Thoman Manton, Thomas Jacomb, John Yates, John Sheffield, Anthony Palmer, Thomas Cole, Thomas Doelittel, Richard Baxter, William Cooper, George Griffith, Matthew Barker, John Singleton, Andrew Parsons, Richard Mayo, Thomas Gouge, William Jenkyn, Thomas Watson, Benjamin Needler, William Carslake, Stephen Ford, Samuel Smith / by William Penn. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 32 p. s.n.], [London : 1674. Marginal notes. First edition. A reply to a commendatory epistle prefixed to the second edition of John Faldo's Quakerism no Christianity. Faldo answered in "XXi. divines ... cleared of the unjust criminations of W. Penn ..." Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Faldo, John, 1633-1690. -- Quakerism no Christianity. Society of Friends -- England. A54003 R208998 (Wing P1131). civilwar no De morbis capitis; or, Of the chief internall diseases of the head. With their causes, signes, prognosticks, and cures, for the benefit of t Pemell, Robert 1650 13933 91 0 0 0 0 0 65 D The rate of 65 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-07 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-11 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-08 Ali Jakobson Sampled and proofread 2006-08 Ali Jakobson Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A JUST REBUKE TO One & Twenty Learned and Reverend DIVINES ( So called ) Being an Answer to an Abusive Epistle against the People call'd Quakers , subscrib'd by Thomas Manton , Thomas Jacomb , John Yates , John Sheff●eld , Anthony Palmer , Thomas Cole , Thomas Doelittel , Richard Baxter , William Cooper , George Griffith , Matthew Barker , John Singleton , Andrew Parsons , Richard Mayo , Thomas Gouge , William Jenky● , Thomas Watson , Benjamin Needler , William Carslake , Stephen Ford , Samuel Smith , By William Penn. Quid enim iniquius , quam ut oderint homines quod ignorant , etiam si res meretur odium , Tertul. Apologet. — The Lord , frustrateth the Tokens of the Stars , and maketh Diviners mad , that turneth wise Men backward , and maketh their Knowledge foolish , Isa. 44.24 , 2● . Printed in the Year 1674. A JUST REBUKE TO One and Twenty Divines , ( So called ) &c. THe CAUSE of the GOD of TRVTH hath rarely wanted the Endeavours of men of greatest Power and Literature in almost every Age to slander it , nor the constant Adherers to it , contumelious Treatment for their Integrity : No Virtue hath been so Conspicuous , no Quality so Great , no Relation so Near , as to protect them from the Fury of blind Tradition and prejudic'd Education . But as this ought not to discourage any that pursueth so Good and Heavenly an Interest , especially , when the Invincible Faith , Patience and Hope of those Holy Ancients that so heartily espoused it , stand before us as so many bright Examples and Encouragements ; so neither have the many and great Attempts of Men of divers , yea opposite Interests , to render us Vnfit for the Earth , and ( what in them lyeth ) to invalidate our Claim to Heaven , abated one Grain of our Love to , Confidence in and Zeal for that worthy Cause : And Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , their Essayes have been Insuccessful , their Designs frustrated , and not one of their Weapons form'd against our Sion hath yet prospered ; But — Crescit sub pondere Virtus . These very Sufferings God hath turn'd to our Enlargement , daily rewarding our Tribulations with Patience , and our Conflicts with Joy in the Holy Ghost ; fulfilling to us that comfortable Saying of the Apostle , All things shall work together for good to them that love him . Having this Encouragem●nt from God , what Injury soever we sustain from Men , well may we say with that Kingly Prophet , Whom should we fear ? Of whom should we be afraid ? With that Godly Resolution , which becometh the Justness of my Cause , I enter upon my present Work , and first of the Occasion . We have been long threatn'd with a Report of the joynt-Endeavours of many Minist●rs , which rais'd several into an Expectation of some notable Piece , some grave and moderate Disquisition of what had been as frivolously as fouly mannaged by our other petulant Adversari●s , that the Controversy so long depending , might terminate with some Advantage to such as had made any sober Enquiry after it ; but we had no sooner received and lookt into the Book , then we saw our selves under a very great Di●appointment ; for instead of some New Essay , behold ! an Old Discourse new vampt , or a new Impression of a Book twice largely consider'd , and some think , effectually Answer'd , I mean , John Faldo's Quak●rism no Christianity , but now recommended , as the Title-page tells us , by the Epistles of many Learned , and Worthy Divines . But since it hath pleased so many Persons under that Character , to fall in with his Di●course against us , to Commend it so highly , Recommend it so earn●stly , and bestow so liberal an Elogie on him that wrot it , I think I may without any the least Injustice , look upon them as Authors of this Impression , and consequently ( by espousing his Endeavours ) R●sp●nsible to the People call'd Quakers , for all those Miscarriages therein rightly chargable by them upon him : And I no waies doubt , through God's Assistance to evidence their Concern in this Affair to carry with it an utter Inconsistency with that Superbe Title they have either given themselves , or the Author or Book s●ller conferr'd upon them for the good turn of their so seasonable Epistle , viz. LEARNED , REVEREND and WORTHY DIVINES ; Words that make a fine Jingle , and please and blow up Vain People at a strange rate . The first Paragraph of their Epistle is a great Truth , both worthy of the Minds of good Men , and necessary to be consider'd at any's Entrance into the Judgment of another's Cause ; It runs thus : One and Twenty Divines . That , as God is the Wise Distinguisher of Good and Evil ; and so loveth the Good in any , as not to abate his Hatred of their Evil ; and so hateth the Evil , as to love all that is Good ; So is it no small part of the Wisdom and Integrity of his Servants to Imitate him herein ; and not like Men blinded by Partiality , to just●fie all in those whom they like , and Vilifie all in those they d●slike , &c. W.P. One would think by this that you had Imitated God in your Conduct towards the Quakers ; and doubtless you writ it , that those that read it should think so : but why ? I know not ; unless because you looking upon your selves his Servants , such ought to do so or else to give greater Credit to your Work then your selves perhaps believe it deserves : But let us hear what Use you the great Men of Vses , make of this Introduction ; I find it in the next Paragraph in these Words . One and Twenty Divines . This Justice we must and will observe towards this People , called , Quakers , — The Fear of God and Love of Truth forbids us to render them Worse or Better then they are . W.P. Better ! there is little Fear you will : You may turn Pelagian in the Case , and exclude all Divine Assistance ; for I hope none are so ignorant in this Age , as to think that Men of your Stamp need special Grace to keep you from the Sin of rendering the poor Quakers Better then they are : How much Worse will be the Question ? I confess , you say fair ; but what if you break your Word with us ? Must not your Censure of us fall upon your own Heads ? And will it not be reasonable for us to interpret your Use of so true an Expression to be a Trick to decoy People into a Belief , that you had taken right Measures of us , whilst you have really dealt most unjustly with us . Let me a little expostulate with you in this Matter . You have either read or not read the Book ye recommend : If you have not read it , certainly you have done very Ill to recommend it , since you know not what you recommend ; which is not to Imitate God , or do the Quakers Justice : If you have read it , you manifestly entitle your selves to all the Evils of it . Again , since the Strength of the Book depends upon Testimonies out of our Writings : either you have compared his Citations with the Books themselves , or ye have not ; if you have not ( and I am apt to think that 's your Case ) you commend him , and condemn us by rote : If you have compared and considered them , you must needs have offered great Violence to your Understandings in giving your Approbation , which anon we shall so undeniably evidence , as it would have been comparatively your Virtue , to have recommended the Book without reading it or examining the Citations . Besides , the most of what he chargeth upon us to be our Principles , are not so laid down by any one of us , nor , say we , sayable by any of us upon our real Principles ; but are such Consequences as he through Ignorance or Malice hath indirectly drawn from our Words : For Instance , That there is no other Judgment , Heaven or H●ll , then what is within us in this Life ; Which is so far from being our Principle in Our Words , that it is as inconsistent with the Truth of our Creed , as Darkness is with Light : Charge this upon him , and he will tell you , I doubt not , That this is not the Quakers Faith in terminis , but the Consequence of it ; but then it is to be observed , that he must have the making of it . I would fain know of you , if you would be so treated with the Respect to the Articles of your own Creed ? Would you esteem it just in me , to give my Consequence for your Principle , supposing I thought it a true Consequence , especially if you reject it ? For Example ; You are most , if not all of you , strict Calvinists in the Point of Election and Reprobation ; would you take it for a candid Representation of your Judgment , that I should proclaim it to the World , T. Manton , T. Jac●mb , &c. believe , That God is the Author of Sin ; That God's Secret Will crosseth his Revealed Will ; That no Man is oblieged by the Laws either of God or men ; That Men are not the Cause of their own Destruction ; That there are neither Rewards nor Punishments , &c. because perhaps I believe those Consequences to be deducible from the Calvinistical Principle ? I am perswaded you would look upon me as an Injurious Person in so doing ; yet this hath been the Practice of your Reverend Author J. Faldo : and which is le●s to your Credit , you have notwithstanding commended him in it , which , how well it suits with On● and Twenty Learned and Reverend Divines , I leave to their Judgment who understand what Persons of such a Character ought to do and be . But I hope you do not think this to be Imitating of God ; if you do , your Case is desperate . But ●ad your Carriage been less blamable in these Particulars , it had not only been your Discretion , but Duty , to have enquired if ever any thing had been writ in Answer to this Discourse you recommend , by any of that People that it was writ against ; if there had , to have procured and perused it , before you had so freely spent your peremptory Judgment against us . You generally fling Infallibility at us , though it be about Matters of highest Importance to Salvation , as if it were a Capital Sin to be assured of what a Christian ought not to make a Doubt of , and yet nothing below asscribing such an Infallibility to your Reverend Author , can excuse you in not examining him by our Discourses , before you conferr'd so kind ●n Epistle upon his Book : I ask you , if the like Practice would please you in your own Ca●e ? you have prov'd , it doth in ours , which makes not for your Honour : Some of you are Writers your selves , and thereby have ascended to no small Degree of Fame for some thing or other ; tell me honestly if you would think it a Piece of Justice in any Class of Men to recommend a Book most abusive of your Religion to the World , for an Ingenious Essay , an Exact Account of your Belief , a Tract that in Matter , Proof and Style ( your own Words ) merits the Notice of all such as desire an Information concerning your Principles of Religion , whilst you both disown the Principles of Religion it calls yours , and in Two large Answers have detected him of several hundred Miscarriages against your Persons and Principles ? I am perswaded you will provide better for your selves . But if you must needs be so liberal , me thinks your Recommendation had been better bestow'd upon his Vindication , since his writing That , proveth , This wanted it ; and if it wanted it then , it wants it still , and yet it seems the Book Vindicated must be the Defence of the Vindication , and all the Return I am like to have to my Rejoynder , bating The Epistle of many L●arned , Reverend and Worthy Divines , in Praise of such a Book , and ●uch an Author : May none of you , at least in this Temper , be Inquisitors when I am to be examin'd for my Religion ! I shall now fall more closely to the Matter of your Epistle . One and Twenty Divines . The Quakers preach another Gospel , and endeavour to seduce well-meaning Souls , to whom they speak in unintelligible Words , and from whom they hide the Poyson of their Antifundamental Doctrines . W.P. Here is a great deal in a little , and very sowerly said : Were it as True as it is False , the Day were yours . You say , We preach another Gospel : You do but Say it , and I thank God , You can Do no more . But doth it become One and Twenty Learned and Reverend Divines , to give so general and black a Charge , without making any the least Offer to Prove it ? Is not this to Calumniate rather then to ●onfute us ? If you say , your Reverend Author , John Faldo , hath done it for you , I must tell you , that he is an Irreverent Abuser of God , the Christian Religion and the Quakers ; and which is more to my Contentment , whatever it be to his and yours , Some , and No Quakers too , think , I have prov'd him such . And let me ask you , If it be Another Gospel , To own Remission and Eternal Salvation by the Son of God , both as he appear'd above 1600 Years ago in the Flesh , and as he reveals himself within in Power and Spirit ? What is the Gospel or Glad Tidings , but Deliverance from Sin here , and Wrath to come ? And what can effect this , but the Powerful Grace of God that bringeth Salvation , which is dispens'd by Him to all men , who is full of Grace and Truth ? For the other part of your Accusation , That we should Say one thing & Mean another ; It is by Consequence , to call us the worst sort of Knaves , by how much a Deception in matters of Eternal Moment , is more impious then any Cozennage about things of this Life ; and yet you would be thought Charitable Men , and say , We want it : Is this the Way to supply us ? But I would willingly know of you , By what Skill you arrive at the Knowledge of our Hearts ? Inspiration is one part of our Heresy , if your Reverend Author is to be credited : The Scripture can not be your Rule in the Point ; for that nowhere saith , The Quakers Say one thing and Mean another : and if you measure us by our Words , you must grant , that either you do not understand us , or we mean very Good Things ; for you elsewhere say , That our obnoxious Tenets we usually mask under Expressions Doubtful , Vnintelligible or under Scripture and Orthodox Phrases : If Doubtful , your Consequences can not be Certain ; If Vnintelligible , you infer that which you do not know ; If Scriptural and Orthodox , you must either tell us , how you come to know our Meanings to be Contradictory to our Phrases , and prove them such , or you must acknowledge that we stand upon Equal Terms with your selves ; I do not say , upon no better , for as great Infidels as you would have us to be , we have both Discretion and Religion enough , not to write such Abusive and Contradictory Things , as so fluently drop from the pens of One and Twenty Learned and Reverend Divines . But your Incharity far exceeds your Indiscretion ; You make us to know Poyson , and to hide Poyson , giving for Antidotes , Destructives to the Souls of Men and Women . I would fain know , why the Conscience of a Quaker should not be as good as the Conscience of a Presbyterian or an Independent ? what Mischiefs have we made our selves Authors of to the World , that it should not be as valid every Jot ? Have we no Souls to be sav'd ? Is there no Desire in us that they may be sav'd ? No Honesty ? No Con●cience ? No Fear of God ? All animated to such Evil Purposes , as the Wilful Damning of our selves , & the Proselyting others into Eternal Misery ; and rather then not compass such an End , expose our selves to all sort of Sufferings in this World ? Oh bitter Invective ! God , the Searcher of Hearts , will require this Injustice at your hands : You have unworthily traduc'd the Reputation of those who dare meet with you upon a publick Test , to prove their Integrity to God and Men . Why will you give such occasion to remind you of Old Stories ? But of that anon . Had you judg'd us Ignoramus's , you had been kind to the Cruelty of making us designed Murderers to our own and other mens Souls : God forgive you : But this I must tell you , that it is not We , That say one thing and think another ; but You , and such as you are , that make us think another thing then what we say , and then entitle us to your own Inventions . I must further tell you , We make it not our Business , as you falsly insinuate , to decoy People into antifundamental Principles : for besides that we know none to be such that we hold , we make not our Religion to stand in a Belief of so many verbal Articles ; but a Conformity of Soul to the Grace of God . It is a great part of our Work , to dehort People from curious Enquiry after Notions & Opinions , be they never so true in themselves ; knowing how much more beneficial it is to Men , and well-pleasing to God , to have an Honest Heart , then a Full Head : DOING is degenerated into TALKING , and the LIFE of Religion into Contention about the NOTION of it ; Such Christians will not stand in God's Day : Besides , many of those , who are otherwise remote enough from saying any thing in favour of the Quakers , do frequently acknowledge , that They generally preach and press Good Living . It is our Desire to bring men into a Sence of God's Grace in their own Hearts , and to know the effectual Operatio●s of it , to the Renewing of their Mind to God ; And That Divine Assistance within , and right Vse of the holy Scriptures without , are enough to inform them of what is fit to be believed . And though you would have People think very severe things of us , with respect to the Scriptures of Truth , by telling them , the Quakers hold , That the Scriptures are not the Word of God , nor a Rule of Faith and Pract●c● , yea , that we readily assert it in so many words : I must tell you , you have acted with us herein far from men of common Ingenuity ; A man might , at this rate by Scripture prove , There is no God , if he would but leave out , The Fool hath said in his Heart . We deny the Scriptures in that sense wherein you deny them to be the Word of God , that is to say , The Word that was in the beginning with God , and was God , which you call the Ess●ntial Word ; and , because we find in no place that it calls it self The Word of God , we rather chuse to say , The Scriptures given forth by Inspiration , are the Words of God . The like Abuse you put upon us about denying them to be a Rule of Faith and Practice : you leave what makes for us behind , that you may make your Advantage of what you take ; That the Scripture is not a Rule in all things therein exprest , you your selves consess , respecting the Dispensation of the Jews , and other things ; and that there may be somethings wherein the Scriptures cannot be a Rule , I presume you will not deny : and that they are not a Rule in any Case , the import of your Charge , we utterly deny ; for we believe and know they contain many godly Rules : I shall place this to the rest of your Account of Calumnies , and so proceed . One and Twenty Divines . Though the Reverend Author hath shewed you how much infidelity is among them , and how many of the very Essentials of Christianity their Leaders contradict , and how consequently they are indeed no Christians ; yet it is not his purpose ( as he plainly premiseth ) to fix this sad Character upon all those who pass under the Name of Quakers — There are divers of them , who are honest and well-meaning Persons . — W.P. Methinks you are got into a very kind mood , of a sudden , but it holds not a whole page ; for you tell us soon after , That the whole Body of this People seems to be judicially deserted of God : If so , then no more Christians then their Leaders , as you are pleased to call them ; neither Honest nor Well-meaning , unless God judicially d●serts honest and well-meaning People . In the next page you call them Wasps of Satan's H●ving , who have Hives , but no Honey , or sweetness of Spirit , except for themselves . The less we have , the more you have ▪ And would not one think you all Honey by your Writings ? How can you expect that we should have any to spare , whom you make to have so little , if any at all ? And what need is there of giving to them that think they have so much already ? The Truth is , we are Wasps , and you are Bees by one and the same Figure : We know that you have always a good Name for your selves , and have long loved the Honey-Pot ; But where did you get it ? Did you gather it ? No such mat●er . Of who then ? Of the People , no doubt ; they Toyl , and you Talk ; they are the Bees , and you so many cunning Hivers , at the Tinkling of whose Bells the silly Bees assemble , and when you have safely Hived them , your next Business is to take their Honey from them . Howbeit , if we are Wasps , then not Bees , by which I suppose you intend Christians ; if so , your Charity is at an end , and those you Christian'd with J. Faldo just now , you do here manifestly Vnchristian ; unless Wasps be Christians , and that Christians , while such , may be judicially deserted of God , and hived by the Divel . Methinks such Contradiction becometh not Men of your Style and Pretences . But tell me , why are we judicially deserted of God ? Is it not because we have judiciously deserted you ? And don't you therefore say we are hived by the Devil , because we will not let you hive us ? speak Truth Fain would you have it ( according to the old Proverb ) as your Bell tinketh , the poor Quaker thinketh . But blessed be God , his Grace has made us wiser then such Teachers ; we know the Heavenly Voice of our spiritual Shepherd , and can no more suffer our selves to be carried away with a Worldly Ministry ; and that I aver to be such , which is not founded upon the Revelations and internal Motions of God's Holy Spirit , a Principle you do , in the Person of your Reverend Author J. Faldo , not only deny , but deride , who is so far from shewing any Infidelity amongst us , that his Book is but a Proof of his own Injustice ; and not that our Principles , but his corrupt Consequences contradict the Essentials of Christianity . This is an Inadvertency in you that well deserves , as my Reproof , so your Repentance . But to your next Passage . One and Twenty Divines . And the Truth is ( excepting some Jugling Socinianiz'd Persons or Papists that assume their Name ) there are few of them who are Men of so much Vnderstanding and Consistent Principles , as to be Able and Willing to give a Methodical and Intelligible Account what they themselves or their Party hold . W.P. A quick Way to do a Quakers Business at once : He must either be an Ignoramus , a Socinian , or a Papist , chuse him whether ; if an Ignoramus , he is laught at ; if a Socinian or Papist , he is hated . Doth this flow from the Beeishness of your Nature , Jugling Socinians , Papists or Ignoramus's ? These Expressions do not quadrate with the Titles of L●arned and Reverend Divines . What is it but to tell us , you resolve to render the Quakers odious , and if they have nothing of themselves , you will adapt any thing that is hateful of other Perswasions into theirs , that you may bring them into Suspicion and Abhorrence with your People : However , you are so constant to contradict your selves , that you grant to some of us both an Ability and Willingness , to render a Methodical and an Intelligible Account of what we and our Friends believe , after having rated us for designed Obscurities and affected Vnintelligibleness . But that I may not leave you so , let me tell you , first , that both Socinians and Papists have written , and that with Severity against us ; next , The Labours of no Adversary hath had more grateful Acceptance in the Thoughts of your Reverend Author J. Faldo , then a noted Socinian , of whose Attempt he speaks thus , I resent it as one of the best and most ingenuously mannaged that ever I read against that Sort of People , meaning the Quakers : He also , both in his first Book and in his Vindication , as heartily advocates the Cause of a Socinian against me , as if he had been doubly feed to the Work : Besides all this , we have been of late both publibkly and vehemently , yet groundlesly , exclaimed upon , for denying the Man Christ Jesus , and asscribing the Christship to the Divinity alone ; and you know the Socinians own him to be but a bare Man ; and that some of our eminentest Adversaries in that Controversie were assisted by Socinians , I am able to prove : But to what Pitch of Inconsistency may not the Pride , Passion and Prejudice of Men raise them ? You think it enough to do our Business , to pin the Pope at our Tail : but you may remember how unjust you thought such Suggestions from some of the former Prelates of the English Church , who made the same Use of your Separation ; and as well as you Presbyterians & Independents agree against us , both of you have mutually Jesuited one another ; the Refuge of Malice , when drove to a Pinch . To conclude , I must tell you , we are neither Socinians nor Papists ; and I do hereby require at your Hands to produce one Socinian or Papist that goes under the Name of a Quak●r among us ; till when you remain under the Just Imputation of Slanderous Persons . But let us see what is next . One and Twenty Divines . Divers Honest , W●ll meaning and Ignorant Persons have fallen in with the Quakers , supposing them by their plain Habit , Austerity and rude Deportment to be the strictest , and therefore the Holyest Sort of Professors — And thu● seeing no farther , they become Quakers , from the same Principles in the main , and from the same Dispositions , as the more Ignorant Votaries among the Papists are Carthusians , Franciscans , and other such like Monks and Nuns . W.P. I would fain ask you , if you can yet think your selves Men of Charity ? You elsewhere say we want it ; & at this Rate we may do so for all you . Behold the Brand you set on every Soul that leaves you ! Can you satisfie your Consciences , that you have herein shown the Justice you promised us , in describing the Quakers , or Imitated the Rectitude of God in the Measures you have taken of us ? Truly if you can , they are greatly to be suspected : Give us one Instance of any Honest or Well-meaning Person , that for the sake of those outward Appearances became a Quaker , which in other Terms is , to expose themselves to the bitter Anathema's of such High-Priests as your selves , the Severity of their dearest Relations , the Penalties of Magistracy , and to the general Reproach of the Multitude : Methinks , upon second Thoughts , you should not have such good ones of your selves , and such bad ones of your Neighbours ; But though you take so little Care of being tender , nay Just to us , yet you should be more circumspect for your selves : You tell us in the Person of J. Faldo , That the Quakers deny to perform any Thing relative of Religion , bu● upon Inspiration or Motion of the Spirit ; And you all know , or may know , the Papists turn not Carthusians , Franciscans , &c. upon such Pretences , or as being so disposed : You , or your People have affirmed , That they by such Works think to merit Eternal Life ; Whether it be true or fal●e , let them look to that ; sure I am , that such as say , Those Works are my Works , and that upon my Principle , who otherwhile tells the World , That I admit of no Work in Religious Matters , but by the Impulse of God's Spirit , contradict themselves to purpose , and that you have done . Popery brought into Company with what you call Quakerism , doth your Work with some of your Vulgar ; but your Comparison had shown less of Envy , if you had pleased to produce those Principles , and describe those Dispositions you unworthily insinuate Quakers and Monks in common to be acted by . But methinks , your frequent frothy Reflections upon our Deportment as Monk●sh and Cynical , &c. look more then ordinarily ugly from the Mouths of such as profe●s themselves to be of the Race and Stock of Ancient Puritans , whose little Bands , cropt Lock● , exceeding plain Apparel , severe Aspects , with many more Instances of Preciseness and Austerity , as you call it , were the Subjects , frothy Minds play'd upon : You do not think B. Jonson acted like a Christian-Man in his Comical Representation of Puritans , & yet your selves call'd Learned , and Reverend Divines , have shown as much Injustice , though it may be , one and Twenty more of you could not show so much Wit . It is known to God with what Sincerity we are acted in Obedience to the Convictions of his own Spirit , and that it is not Affected Singularity , but Real Conscience , that engageth us to those things you make the Subject of your Mo●kage and Contempt ; and God hath to reckon with you for the Liberty you give , and your People take : To indulge them in that Vnchristian Latitud● , and fling Monkish Aust●rities upon us , who through Fear of offending Almighty God , by giving Way to a Worldly Appetite , conscientiously live under s●me more then ordinary Restriction is , to deal deceitf●lly with them , and injuriously with us ; and God will judge for these Things . The Truth of the Matter is , you are Angry the People can live without you ; and rack your Wits to bring that Principle ▪ People and Way into Suspicion and Hatred , whose self-Denyal judgeth you and yours : your Interest in People stands in that , which when the Everlasting God shall terribly shake all Things , will fall ; and such as have vainly conceited themselves Christians upon your Character , they will be found without their W●dding-Garment . But the Truth is , nothing is well with some Men that a Quaker doth ; if he be retired , he is sullen ; if plain in his Apparel , Cynical ; if careless about Salutation , Proud ; his Industry must be Worldly-Mindedness ; his Mod●rate Vses of Imjoymens , Penuriousn●ss ; his Hospitality , Fl●sh-Pleasingness ; his being at a Word , a Decoy for Custom and a New Way of Cheating ; if he refuse to answer any Questions relating to Religion , eit●er he can give no Account of his Religion , or he he holds some Error he is afraid to discover ; if he doth answer them , either it is Nonsense or Equivocation : In short , his Virtues must be Vi●es ; but thi● is his Resolution , if to be , as he is be to be Vile , he will be more Vile ; and I doubt not but God will plead our Cause against you , and evidence to you and all Men , that we have not pursued Cynical Singularities , nor Affected undue Separation ; but with Holy Fear and Sincerity of Soul have been herein resign'd to the Good-Will of God , as he hath made it known by the Light of his Son in our own Consciences ; and this I affirm , that all those Endeavours many vigorously employ to vilifie an Inward Principle , and disswade Persons from believing in it , waiting upon it , and being guided by it , center in the rankest Atheism , because the Sence and Influence upon the Mind , is the most sensible , express and constant Argument for God and his pure Religion , which lost , makes Way for Infidelity . But as in Point of Doctrine , so in Conversation you believe we are not all alike ; your Words are these : One and Twenty Divines . And yet some of them being Rich , and grown into Estates in the World , can and do live in as Flesh-pleasing Fulness , Splendor and indulging to a sensual Life , as others whom they have condemned . W.P. I would willingly know these Persons , who they are , and where they live : Did you love Truth and your own Credit , ye would scarce be so lavishing of your Words . You say , We condemn all but our selves ; what is the Consequence but this , if you speak true , That there is not a Person in the World that is not a Profest Quaker , who either hath more Ability to-live Flesh-pleasing , or that actually doth indulge himself more to a Sensual Life then some Quakers can and do , Which way to save your Credit , I know not , unless you make it appear that the Quakers are both as Rich as other Men , and as indulgent to themselves in all sensual P●easures . I perceive , rather then the Quakers shall want Faults , you will make some for them ; a Practice very unfit for One and Twenty Learned and Reverend Divines ! But to do you right , you are kind in your Cruelty ; you provide against believing what you say , by saying what is incredible of us . I shall now consider your Recommendation of his Book . One and Twenty Divines . Wherein the Quakers Principles are more thorrowly investigated then in any Book which we have seen ; and we judge it for Matter , Proof and Style , to be especially useful for those who need , or desire Information concerning the Quakers and their Principl●s . W.P. Had we no other Weapon , this were enough to Wound your Cause incurably ; for first , he hath laid down about 20 Principles in the Quakers Name , 18 of which are not only None of theirs , as so exprest , but not so much as by Consequence : That they are none of ours , it is enough we say so , unless our Faith is not to be taken at our Mouthes , but at our Adversaries . He that tells me I believe that which I do not believe , is either Foolish or Dishonest , and his Confutation is not of me , but of himself . That they are not our Principles by Consequence , I have abundantly proved , both in my Answer and Rejoynder : However , Matter , Proof and Style you commend it for . The Matter of it lyeth in the Proof of it : What Proof and what Style , I am willing to shew you ; and first , as to Proof . Who would not think it excellently performed , that hath such an Epistle , and so subscribed , on Purpose to recommend it ? But that so many Men , with such fine Titles , may ●e guilty of great Mistake and Abuse , I will produce you Ten Instances of Notorious Perversion , any one of which were unworthy even of such poor Heathen as ye think us to be , referring you to my Answer and Rejoynder for a more compleat Detection of his Miscarriages . 1. John Faldo affirms , That W. Smith had not one Exhortation to read the Scrip●ures ; nay , that the main Design of the Book was to deny them , and throw Dirt upon them ; yet J.F. cites him concerning the Scriptures , thus : Child , Then the Scriptures are to be own'd and believed , & c ? Father , Yes , They are to be OWN'D and BELIEV'D ; and they that do not so , are to be DENIED . Observ. Can any thing be more inconsistent , then your Reverend Author ? Is it this sort of Proof you commend ? Can you think this the Way to convert such Infidels , as you deem us to be ? To this let me add another notable Passage in the same Discourse he faults with Dirting and Denying the Scripture . Quest . Of what Service are the Scriptures as they are given forth and recorded without ? Answ. MUCH EVERY WAY unto those that have receiv'd the same Spirit from whom they were given forth , for unto such they are PROFITABLE , and MAKE WISE unto Salvation ; and are unto them of Service , for INSTRUCTION , EDIFICATION and COMFORT . Obs. Is there no Exhortation lodg'd in these words ? And is this to Deny or throw Dirt upon the Scriptures ? If any shall object W. Smith's making the Spirit necessary to the profitable Reading of the Scriptures , let them go to W. Tindal , J. Bradford , Bp. Jewel , J. Philpot , Luther , Calvin , Peter Martyr and others , they will preach them the same Doctrine ; which I have observ'd in my Rejoynder , and may easily be found in my Catalogue of Authors . 2. My second Instance shall be this , That he maketh W. Smith call the Scriptures Traditions of men , Earthly Root , Darkness , Confusion , Corruption ; All out of the Life and Power of God ; which he only asscribed to degenerated Men , their Worship , Imaginations and Traditions . Shall this be call'd Proof or Perversion ? Doubtless a Proof of nothing , but of that hateful sort of Perversion . 3. That the Quakers understand by Knowledge according to the Flesh , the Vse of the Vnderstanding , though sanctified : which is also a grofs Abuse both of our Words and Sense . 4. That I. Penington should call Visible Worship , as such , the City of Abomination . This is a downright Forgery ; and your Praise of his Proof makes you Accessories : Look on it as you will . 5. That by Traditions of Men , we understand the Scripture , or written Word . A base Abuse of our Words . 6. That the Quakers mean by the Vail that is over People , their Belief of the Man Christ Jesus born of the Virgin Mary , to be now existing in Heaven . An Impiety of ●is own Inventing and your Approving ! 7. From W. Smith's saying , that the present Practice of the Sacraments , as , Baptizing with a Cross , and counting the Bread and Wine the Flesh & Blood of Christ , arise from the Pope's Invention , You in the Person of John Fal●● , give out , That W. Smith calls the Lord's Supper the POPE's INVENTION . At this rate , what will your Testimony be worth ? Little , certainly , with such as know Good Coyn from B●d . 8. From Edw. Burrough's making the Light of Christ within to be One in Nature with the Spirit of Christ ; J. Faldo infers , That the Quakers hold the Soul to be God : as if that had been said of the Soul , which was said of the Light of Christ shining in the Soul , or that they were Synonymous . What cannot a Man of his Skill in This black Art do ? yet this is your own Reverend Author , who for his Proof against the Quakers , is not a little in your Books . 9. Because G.F. rejected that carnal Notion that confines the Infinite Omnipresent God to a Residence only above the Stars , he makes no Difficulty of inferring , That we deny the Manhood of Christ Jesus . As Absurd as Base ! 10. From our affirming that such a kind of Reading of Scripture as the Pharisees us'd , and to those Ends , makes men harder to be wrought upon to true Conversion then the Heathen , John Faldo infers , That reading the Scriptures , and getting Knowledge thence , puts men into a worse Condition then the Heathen ; and that there is scarcely any thing more Dangerous then reading the Scriptures : Yea , he accuses us of Charging the Miscarriages of mens Souls on the Knowledge the Scripture BY GOD's BLESSING doth convey . Behold at what rate your Reverend Author hath investigated our Principles ! you have said truely in saying , he did it throughly ; for he hath scarcely toucht any Thing , that he hath not throughly abused ; yet this is the Man whose Attempts so obnoxious as you see , you have adventured to commend . You say , you judge it ( among other Things ) for the PROOF of it , to be especially useful for those who desire Information concerning the Quakers and their Principles : That ever Men of your Age , Experience and Reputation should precipitate themselves into any Thing so foul and scandalous ! Can you believe this is Imitating God , and being Just to the Quakers ? I hope your Condition is not yet so dangerous . I think fit further to add for the Information of the Ignorant , that J.F. began with us in this Book , call'd Quakerism No Christianity ; I answered him in a Book , entituled Quakerism a New Nick Name for Old Christianity ; against this he put forth his Vindication , unto which I made my Rejoynder , consisting of TWENTY THREE CHAPTERS , in which I vindicated our Principles , stripping them of those frightful Vizards and hateful Disguises he put upon them , confirmed them by many Scriptures and Reasons , and to compleat our Defence , produced in favor of the whole above TWO HUNDRED TESTIM●NIES out of both ancient and modern Authors . Besides all this I faulted his Conduct and Behaviour in this Controversie , in above FOUR HUNDRED PARTICULARS , and that under distinct Sections . None of which hath he taken notice of , how much soever it stood his Credit upon ; but after his own Proof of his Books , wanting a Vindication , he reprints it to consummate the Controversie . To me it is a manifest Token that the Man hath gotten to a Ne plus ultra , & therefore goes back again ; and doubtless , were not his Cause deeply sunk , it should never need the Help of One and Twenty Divines , and those term'd so Learned and Reverend as you are , to recover it , and yet you see at what a Rate you have performed your Task : We have Hopes you will be better advised the next Time ; I am sure your Circumstances need it . And that you have as well abused us in your STYLE as Proof , and therefore proportionably deferve the Censure of Impartial Readers , I shall produce some Instances out of your Epistle and his Book ( I may say yours ; for ye have made it so by adopting it : ) First , In your Epistle , A strange Sort of People , preach another Gospel , and endeavour to seduce well-meaning Souls ; Poison of their Anti-fundamental Doctrines ; Infidelity among them ; Jugling Socinianized Persons ; Papists ; Carthusians ; Franciscans , and other such like Monks and Nuns ; Judicially deserted of God ; arrived to Pride and Ignorance ; seek Back-biting , Reviling and Reproaches ; nauseous Conceitedness ; Deluded Souls ; Barbarous Language ; Pittiful Ignorance ; No Christians ; subverting Christianity ; Wasps of Satan's Hiving . This is the Language of your own Epistle , that do not love Reflections nor Railing , if we will believe you . Now for the Style of your Reverend Author in his Books , whom you would , have us believe is a Friendly Person to the Quakers . Of our Light . Ignis fatuus ; the second Anti-christ ; the Quakers Idol ; Pernicious Guide and Saviour ; Fancyful Teacher : And in his Vindication , A Sord●d , Sinful , Corrupt and Ridiculous Thing . Of our Religion and Friends . Quakerism made its Way by , and began in Blasphemies against the Lord Jesus Christ ; Quakerism entered the World , as if Hell were broak loose , and Possessions of Satan were to make Way , and fit Souls for the Quakers Spirit ; Blasphemy and Idolatry . Our Friends ( Quakers so called ) Dark-Lanthorn-Men ; being hid with Palpable Knavery and Impudence ; Absurd and Blasphemous Idiots ; Prodigiously Wicked ; Oh the Hell-Dark Expressions of the Quakers Preachers , speak the Amazing Delusions of Satan . And in his Vindication , A Presumptuous and Blind Accuser ; a Sophister ; an Haman ; an Accursed Ham ; a Treacherous and Wilful Deluder ; a Madman ; an Hangman ; an Infallible Stager ; a Fool ; an Ape ; a Dunce ; an Impudent Forger ; and what not ? Is this to act like a FRIEND to the Quakers , or give Testimony of a Large Spirit and Principle , as you ( to make a foul Matter fair ) have so untruly intimated ? Doubtless , no Man hath taken more Pains to abuse a poor People , then J. Faldo hath to misrepresent the Quakers ; yet this very Style you more especially recommend : Can you yet think your selves Learned , Reverend and Worthy Divines , Men of Conscience and Honour ? And the Truth is , you were very hard put to it to make up the Recommendation ; for in the Scope of four Pages , you three times compare us to Papists and I●fidels ; thrice charge and aggravate our designed Obscurity , with abundance of Impertinency and Contradiction ; four Times go over our Separation from you ; and last of all , you five Times charge us with Singularities , enlarge and grow Elegant upon it , Repetitions , Tautology . And by the Way I must needs take this notice of the New Advertisement in this Impression . First , That he most horribly abuseth us in saying , We pretend all our Ministers to be Infallible . More then ten Times over hath he both scornfully and untruly cast this at us : We asscribe not an Infallibility to Men , but to the Grace of God , and to Men so far as they are led by it ; for that it certainly teacheth what it doth teach . Secondly , Whereas he insinuates , as if I allowed of every Passage he cited , as of the Books and Authors themselves : This is so great an Untruth , that many of them are misquoted , and almost every one of them mis-applyed ; and this I have largely and frequently complained of in my Answer , and more particularly in my Rejoynder . I leave off Wondering at him ; for he seems to have prepared his Conscience for any thing that may countenance his Attempts against the Quakers ; which gives us Cause to suspect the altering of the folio of the Old Book in this Impression , is done on Purpose to hinder the Reader from finding his ( in my Answers thereto referred ) Miscarriages . But to you again . Suppose we are as bad as you bespeak us ; how can we help it ? Your Principle takes away all Liberty from our Wills , and tells us of being ordained to all these Mischiefs : Would you have us better then we can be ? that is , to expect Impossibilities at our Hands ? Or would you that we should attempt to invalid God's Immutable and Absolute Decree , which , besides that it cannot be done ( allowing your Notion ) were a great Impiety but to think of ; you should either change your Creed in this Particular , or seem less concerned at the Event of Things confessedly Irremedable . I remember an Old Book published by Three and fifty Presbyterians , some of whom help to make up your One and Twenty Reverend Divines ; it 's call'd A Testimony to the Truth of Jesus Christ and our Solemn League and Covenant ( for you know they must go togethe● ) the Bent of it is to collect the then held Errors , and bitterly to Exclaim on all that hold and plead for , or encline to favour a Toleration ; and such were Episcopalians , Independents , Anabaptists , &c. Among many other these are brought in for Capital Ones . 1. HIERARCHY . 2. INDEPENDENCY . 3 ▪ An Opposition of the Doctrine of Election and Reprobation , as you hold it . 4. The Doctrine of the Freedom of Man's Will . 5. That Christ died for all Men ; or that the Benefit of Christ's Death extended to all Men . And some Leaves off , thus express themselves , Doubtless , that old Serpent , call'd the Devil , hath been the grand Agent in propagating these stupendious Errors , all which Errors , Heresies and Blasphemies , we are confident we may loath , execrate and abhor , and that without the least Breach of Charity . Oh the Strength and Religion of this Charity , that can loath , execrate and abhor to think that Christ dyed for all Men , or that all Men may be saved ! as plain Scripture as any in Scripture . This they call the Presbyterian Testimony , which in plain English doth but loath , execrate and abhor the Belief of the Generality of Christendom . And that you may yet know your selves better , observe this Passage ; The Cursed Blasphemies ; the general Looseness ; the spreading Heresies of our Times have in a manner born down before them the Authority of the sacred Scriptures , the Life and Power of Godliness , & our solemn League & Covenant ; but above all , Our Souls are wounded , to think with what Hope and Industry a TOLERATION of all these Evils is endeavoured . Which in short amounts to this ; 1. All that quadrate not wi●h Presbytery is Error , Heresie or Blasphemy . 2. That above all things it wounds them to think of having such tolerated as believe and maintain them . This Doctrine ( with some Allay ) in the Episcopacy you exploded for Antichristian , Popish and Tyrannical . When through such Pretences you had mounted the Chair , by a notable Figure , call'd Self-Interest , it became an excellent Doctrine with you , yea a most necessary part of your Creed : Pray tell me if this be Imitating of God ? being Just to all men ? Doing as you would be 〈◊〉 by ? Can you yet be so blind as not to see your selves to be a great way off from Christian Charity , and an universal Communion of Christians , that even make Believing of plain Scripture , a Reason for your Abhorrence of their Communion that so believe ; unless they will subject such obnoxious Passages to Calvinistical Interpretations ? Is not this like the Egyptian Tyrant , that stretcht all longer that were ●horter , and cut all shorter that were longer then Himself ? This shows , you Caesar-like , would have had ●o Equal , and resolv'd to raign alone , come what will of those you now have learn'd to call Christians : It is but too manifest that the genuine Sense of your Faithfulness to promote God's Cause and Interest , is YOUR SELVES . But you are several times angry with us for our Separation . One and Twenty Divines . They seek by Backbiting , Reviling and Reproaches , to disgrace the Doctrines , Practices and Persons of others , that they themselves may seem more exce●●ent and glorious then all that have been excellent before them , and that they may not be thought unworthy of some Communion themselves , grow presently of Opinion , that all the rest of the World of profest Christians , are so ignora●● 〈◊〉 so bad , as to be unworthy of Communion with them . W.P. Methinks that it is not only an ill way to be thought more Excellent and Glorious then all that were before us ; but that no Man that refuseth to captivate his Sence and Reason to serve the Interest of whatsoever you say or do , can believe that we should take such an improbable Way to Glory : Such juggling Socinians and Papists , as you make the chief of us to be , should better understand their Business , then to be guilty of so much broad and distastefull Folly , in doing of it ; but what cannot you say of the Quakers , who rather then not say enough , will be impertinently Tautological , and say the same thing in four pages five times over , to fix an Odium in the Minds of People against us ; What is this but to do what you condemn ? But the Truth is , you have so well exprest the Matter for your selves , that an unwary Reader would think you equally Enemies to Separation , and Reviling those you separate from . But of a●● men this Language is most infufferable from you , who have transcended in the Guilt of those things you seem so heartily to censure . You are made up of Presbyterians and Independents ; let me a little Expostulate with you : Argumentum ad hominom . I will begin with you who are called Presbyterians ; Are you not Separatists from the Church of England ? You know you are ; And pray , what is the Ground of your Separation ? Is it Difference in the Essentials of Religion ? you know , you say it to be only in some matters of Discipline ; for this you have divided your selves , and smartly vindicated your Separation , witness Galaspee in Scotland , and Smectimnaeus in England . Was it not a great Reason of the Wars , that divided so many Famili●s , shed so much Blood , and exhausted so great a Treasure ? Did it not lay Episcopacy in the Dust , and excite the Parliament in these very Terms ? Elijah opposed Idolatry and Oppression , so do ye : Down with Baal's Altars ! Down with Baal's Priests ! Do not , I beseech you , consent unto a Toleration of Baal's Worship in this Kingdom , upon any Politick Consideration whatsoever . Which is as much as to say , Away with the Arch-Bishops , Bishops , the wh●le Ministry and Worship of the Church of England . Again , The Morthes of your Adversari●s are opened against you , that so many D●linquents ( that is to say , Royalists ) are in Prison , and yet but very few of them brought to their Tryal ( Did he mean , to relea●e them ? ) And saith another of your eminent Brethren be●ore the Commons , Aug. 28. 1644. Ye cannot Preach nor Pray them down directly and immediately — Well , That which the Word cannot do , the Sword shall : To render which saying authentick , the Apostle is brought in two lines after . I could set out this part of your Story to the Life , but at this time shall forbear : nor do I delight in this , but since I must needs mention Your Separation , how can I do it without telling who it was you separated from ? And can I do it more candidly then in your own Words ? I wish there had been no need for it : Only from hence you may observe your sort of Dislike of Separation ; and how notably Presbyterians revile even Men that are one with them in the Essentials of Religion . Behold , a short Instance of your Carriage to the Church of England you separated from ! Let us now take a short view of your Treatment of those that dissented from you : You shewed the Independents the way , first to separate upon Conscience , and then to plead Conscience for Separation ; and how reasonable it was that Conscience should be Tolerated . Are you constant to your selves ? Do you give what you will take ? No such matter : But let us hear you . Matters of Religion , ( says Dr Corn . Burges in his Sermon before the House of Commons , Novemb. 5. 1641. ) ly a Bleeding ; all Government and Discipline of the Church is laid in her Grave ; and all putredinous Vermin of bold Schismaticks glory in her Ashes , making her Fall their own Rising to mount our Pulpits . That the Independents are concern'd under the term Schismaticks , Dr Cawdrey bestows an whole Book upon it , which is Entituled , INDEPENDENCY a great Schism ; yet some of these great Schismaticks are some of the One and Twenty Reverend & Worthy Divines . I find another of your Brethren , Octob. 22. 1644. that tells us of Parliamentary Heresies , saying , You are the Anabaptists , and you are the Antinomians ; these are your Errors , if they spread by your Connivance . Was not this spoaken like a Man of Charity , one that disdain'd not the Communion of other Christians that are not altogether of his Mind ? A Virtue commended by you in your Epistle . Another eminent Person of your Way , before the Parliament Sept. 12. 1644. We are grown beyond Arminianism , Brownism , Anabaptism ; we are come to the down-right Libertinism , that every man is to be left to the Liberty of his own Religion : An Opinion most pernicious and destructive , saith he . And another of your Brethren in his great Zeal , before the House of Commons , 1644. styles them Bastard Imps of the Whore of Babylon : Though you know that many of you plead a Romish Succession for your Ministry , and consequently that you ministerially descend of what you call the Whore ; think on 't as you will . But all this is exceeded by a zealous Presbyterian , who in his Book , called , The Gangraen , &c. Part 1. p. 91. querieth thus ; Shall the Presbyterians Orthodox Godly Ministers be so cold , as to let Anabaptism , Brownism , Antinomianism , Libertinism , Independency come in upon us , and keep in a whole skin , when Arch-Bishops , Bishops , &c. hazarded the loss of their Preferments to withstand the Toleration of Popery ? Where not only Anabaptists and Independents are rendred unworthy of a Toleration by this great Presbyterian ; but their Perswasion rendred more intolerable then Popery . I would ask G. Griffith , M. Barker , R. Mayo , M. Palmer , T. Cole ( who help to make up the One and Twenty Learned and Reverend Divines ) if this Man was a Wasp or a Bee ? one that had more of Sting or Honey ? Well — what 's his Resolution ? Let 's therefore , saith he , fill all Presses , and cause all Pulpits to ring , and so possess Parliament , City and whole Kingdom against the Evil of Schism , and a Toleration , that we may no more hear of a Toleration , nor of separated Churches , being hateful Names in the Church of God , AMEN ' AMEN . All I shall say of the Man is this ; he was hearty in his Work , and what he did , he did with all his Might . Another of them runs so high , that he impeacheth Gamaliel for a loose Naturalist , a Time-serving Polititian , a second Achitophel , and only because he was for Toleration ; when you know , the rest of the Jewish Counsel were for Persecution : If you will not believe me , peruse I. Words Sermon before the Commons , 1645. How agrees this with your present Desires of Indulgence , and Thanks for it ? Let me say , there is the same Exception against you upon this Doctrine , as any other sort of Dissenters : But , as ill as this man thought of Worthy & Prudent Gamaliel , his Counsel hath been strong and sea●onable , even in Presbyterian Apologies . But lest you should reject these Evidences of your rank Severity to others though for minute Differences , as being but the Opinion of 3 or 4 men , I will conclude with the Judgment of the Presbyterian Ministers in the City of London , presented in a Letter to the Assembly of Divines sitting at West minster 1645. INDEPENDENCY is a Schism ; they draw & seduce our Members from our Congregations ; a Toleration of it will be follow'd with inevitable Mischiefs ; They erect separate Congregations , under a separate and undiscover'd Government ; The refuse Communion with our Churches in the Sacraments : And are such men fit to commend Christian Communion to others , who themselves break it , and impeach one another at this bitter rate for doing so ? But what follows ? The Godly , painful Orthodox Ministry will be discouraged and despised ; the Life and Power of Godliness will be eaten out by frivolous Disputes and vain Janglings ; it is too much to be doubted lest the Power of the Magistrate should not only be weakened , but even utterly overthrown , considering the Principles and Practices of Independents , together with their Complyance with other Sectaries , sufficiently known to be Anti-magistratical ; Hereby we shall be involved in the Guilt of other Mens Sins , and thereby be endangered to receive of their Plagues ; It seems utterly Impossible ( if such Toleration should be granted ) that the LORD SHOULD BE ONE , AND HIS NAME ONE IN THE THREE KINGDOMS . This seriously consider'd , let me ask you , if you did not think these Independents either so Ignorant , or so Bad , as to be unworthy of your Communion with them , or being so much as tolerated in their separated Communion from you ? Certainly , if so small a Difference as that which remains between you and the Independents , finds not Charity enough with you to be tolerated , not only the Quakers have no Reason to expect Toleration from you , had you Power in your hands : But there is great need , that you should be ashamed of Censuring others , or being so Narrow-spirited , as not to Commune with People of a different Perswasion in Matters confessedly of greater Moment , then that upon which you have exercised so much Gaul . That You that are INDEPENDENTS , have thought the Presbyterian : Unworthy of your Communion , it is needful only that we put you in mind of your Separating from them , and sitting down in distinct Congregations under a different Discipline and Administration of Ordinances ; The Reason of which , if we will believe the Presbyterians in the Account they gave to the Parliament , was , because you esteem them Prelatical , Tyrannical and Anti-christian in their Ministry : An ancient Acquaintance of mine , who had more Learning and Discretion then to be one of your Learned and Reverend Divines , in his Book against D. Cawdrey , doth ●ffirm , That Ministry that cometh through Romish Succession , and is no Ministry without it , can be no better then a Romish Ministry ; and the Truth is , I am of his mind . J. Cotton , Brownists Apol. J. Cann , ancient Independents also writ in Defence of Separate from National Communion . From hence and that second great War between you and the Presbyterians , who should inherit what you had joyntly gotten from another Party , are none of the clearest Proofs to us of your Brotherly Love and Christian Communion , though a great Check to both of you for your turning Judges , who are such notorious Criminals ; and yet I will not say but the Presbyterians Fury was your Provocation . In short ; As the Reason you have both render'd of your Separation from the Church of England , and One from Another , is Greater Purity of Worship and Discipline ; so We had never separated our selves from you , but upon the same Principle : And if this will not serve your turn , when You that are Presbyterians , have given better Satisfaction to the Church of England for your separate Communion ; and when You the Independents , have in the like Case answer'd the Presbyterians , and the Anabaptists , you , We shall , we hope , not be wanting to our selves in any necessary Vindication of OVR CAVSE . I am sorry you have given me Occasion to remind you of your Separation among your selves : However , this deserves the Notice of all Impartial Readers , that though you were so Bitter , and all Wasps one against another for your Separation ; yet that now you are Confederated against us without any Provocation , then such as was the Cause your selves pretended for your own Separation : So that to use your own Words with better Reason , You are the Men that have no Honey nor Sweetness of Spirit , except for your selves . And I must needs say , that notwithstanding your Reflection upon us , as Destroyers of Christian-Communion , you have been so fond of your own Apprehensions , that many of your Way have lost the Friendliness so commendable in Civil Society ; and some , no small Preachers neither , have vehemently dehorted their Hearers from so much as conversing with us , no not about the Lawful Things of this World , so far as may be avoided ; nay , one of them was so extravagant as openly to profess , He had rather his Hearers should go to a BANDY-HOUSE , then to a Quakers Meeting : To such a Degree of Bitternes are some of you arriv'd , for all your Pretences to Charity . I am sure if you had had any Regard to those Natural Truths you are forc'd to confess , make up Part of our Religion , viz. To do as you would be done by ; remembring that for all these Things God will bring you to Judgment ; you would never have dealt o●t such hard Measure to us ; and it cannot be too much lamented , that men will not make the best of their Accord , so far as they do accord ; I mean what you do , if you mean what you writ , viz. That God so hateth the Evil , as yet to approve and love all that is Good ; and that his Servants should not dispraise all in those whom they dislike : For We own ONE GOD ; we fear him as well as own him ; and through his GRACE are enabled to perform the Works of Righteousness , whose Fruit is Peace : We believe this Grace is communicated to us through Jesus Christ our Lord ; that he is the Only and Compleat Saviour , as well from the Pollution as Guilt of Sin ; that without his Holy ●pirit we cannot please God ; that therefore it is Reverently and Incessantly to be waited for , to inform , inable and conduct us through the whole Exercise of our Life , respecting our Duty towards God and Man ; we also believe that there is an Eternal State for Sheep and Goats , Godly and Vngodly , and a Day in which God Almighty will judge the Secrets of all Men by Jesus Christ , rendering to every Man according to the Deeds done in the Body : And this we do believe without any Mental Reservation whatever , and find dayly Comfort both in Believing and Living accordingly ; nor do I know that you in any thing contradict this , in Words , at least . Now that your Zeal for your Way of Religion should transport you beyond all Natural Tenderness or Affection , as the Apostle renders it ( your Duty to every Man as he is God's Workmanship ) and then glory in so great a Vice as a Christian Virtue , by terming it Godly Zeal , &c. which is no more but an Unwarrantable Heat for your particular Perswasions ; I must needs say , is a great Way off from that Moderation that the Apostle exhorts us to make known to all Men . It is an ill Way of admiring Grace which destroyes Nature , and such , I must needs say , some of yours is , or hath been , who have sacrificed Vniversal Love , Natural Affection , Relation , the Liberties and Lives of Men diff●rently perswad●d to the Promotion of your so much Beloved Interests : Remember T. Edward's Gangraen , and the London-Ministers Petition , and the New-England Tragedy . How exceeding short doth this fall of the Admirable Sweetness of his Nature , who is Lord of the Christian-Religion , that was so far from Indulging Hatred to his Conscientious Friends , that he forbid it to his greatest Enemies ? Can you call for Fire from Heaven upon Dissenters , and rather then not compass their Destruction , kindle Fire on Earth to devour them , and yet with any the least Pretence to Modesty cheek others for Incharity and S●paration ? But take this with you , that good Notions will signifie little to the Comfort of an ill Soul at God's Bar ; it will not be Well H●ld , but Well Done Good and Faithful Servant . Preferring Opinion before Piety hath filled the World with Perplexing Controversies , and Mens Censures have been according to Notion , not according to Conversation : It is not what Works , but what Faith ? though Works best of all define and evidence what Faith is . But this Age hath no Kindness for Good Works ; the more the Pitty : Loose Men slight them in Life , and you in Doctrine ; A Man cannot plead for them , but at the Hazard of being counted a Papist . Tell you such an one is a Virtuous Person , and you an●wer us commonly , He is a Good Moral Man , but he hath no Saving Grace ; as if Grace and Morality were at as great Distance as London and Constantinople : These Notions have abused Religion , and greatly injured the Souls of People ; 1. By giving them to conceit themselves Christians , though Vnlike Christ . 2. In Distinguishing between a Good Man and a Christian , from whence hath flown that Stinginess of Spirit , that denies any to have Saving Grace that fall not in with their Principles , and so divides Gr●ee from Virtue , which God hath Inseparably joyned . This is the Doctrine that deceiveth Men , which make them too great for the rest of Mankind : Moral Men are no Company for them ; they may be that , and go to Hell for their Pains , if what some of you say be true . It is the Presbyterians special Grace that saveth ; for Morality's Part , alas ! she is a poor Heathen , an Alien , an Infidel , without the Pale of the Church and Mercies of the Covenant ; but then it is to be understood of the Scotch One . Oh I beseech you for the sake of Jesus Christ , by whom alone God will judge you and I in the Dreadful Day of Account ; let the Vniversal Principle in your Consciences have Power with you ; the Divine Fruit of which is , first , A Discovery of Duty to be done ; and as clo●ed with there , next , Power and Ability to perform it , which strips you of Self , and Glorying in it , and will work all necessary Works In you and For you : It will first correct and then comfort you ; Its Wayes are Wayes of Pleasantness , and all her Paths are Peace ; To Faith it adds Virtue , to Virtue Knowledge , to Knowledge Temperance , and to Temperance Patience , and to Patience Godliness , to Godliness Brotherly-Kindness , and to Brotherly-Kindness CHARITY . Contend not against it ; your Credit is a Temptation to you ; sacrifice it for the sake of your own and other Mens Souls upon the Altar self-Denyal , and that Humble and Heavenly Obedience you owe to the God of the whole Earth ; and think not Repentance a Work to Mean for you , because you have been so long Preachers of it to others ; your Time hastens on , and in the Grave it will be too late : If it was John's Honour to receive him when he came in Flesh ; let it not be your Judgment to reject his coming in Spirit : God knows I have no Ill-will but much Kindness for you ; I wish you were as truly taught of him , as you are great Teachers of others : could my Desires prevail , you should be such upon better Terms ; but as Wo be unto them who are sent and don't preach ; so Wo be unto them who do preach and are not sent ; It is not hard in this Sense to be Righteous overmuch , to be too Officious , and to act Thanklesly for God . Oh that we may all consider what we are Building with , and whether our Works will stand the Tryal of God's Fire ! whose Terrible Day hastens upon the World , in which he will severely plead with all Flesh that hath corrupted its Way before him ; as with the Gentile , so with the Jew ! as with the Prophane , so with the Professor , VVho hath had a Name to live , and yet will be found Dead , who calls himself a Jew , and yet is not ; a Christian , and is not ; who runs , and God hath not sent him , who cryeth , thus saith the Lord , and God hath never spoaken by him : Let us therefore be perswaded into a Serious Examination of our selves and Preparation for this Great and Notable Day of the Lord , that the Sound of the last Amazing Trump may not surprize us , or any of us be overtaken at unawares , but in Godly Fear wait till our great Change comes , that with Holy Habakkuk , we may all find Rest to our Souls in the Day of Trouble , Amen . Your Friend in much Sincerity , W.P. A POSTSCRIPT . AS for his Appendix , it s an arrant Cheat obtruded upon the Reader . The Title-Page be speaks it a new Piece ; whereas it is no other in the Matter , and for a great Part of the Words of it , then what hath been answered by me again and again . It consists of two Parts ; 1. Two Letters of our Friends , with his usual disingenuous Discants ; which Letters are justify'd from his Black Imputations in my Rejoy●der , and another Discourse , call'd Judas and the Jews . The second Part of the Appendix is a Collection of our Principles , which both in my Answer and Rejoynder I have prov'd to be his own Indirect & Foul Consequences from our R●al Principles , which lye at his Door , or rather now at his One and Twenty Learned and Reverend Divines , that have so Imprudently espoused his Cause ; and recommended his Endeavours . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A54003e-390 Qu. no Chr. pag. 45. My Answer , pag. 42. Rejoynder , pag. 60 , 61 , 62. Rejoy . ibid. Qu. no Chr. p. 117 , 119 My Rejoynder , from pag. 141. to 157. Qu. no Chr. pag. 41. Answ . p. 35. Rejo. p. 424. Vind. p. 50. Rejo. p. 194 , 195. Qu. no Chr. part 3. p. 88. Answ . p. 250. Qu. no Chr. pag. 89. Answ . p. 251 , 252. Rejoy . p. 395 , 396. Qu. no Chr pag. 163. Vindic. from p. 75. to 87. Rejo. p. 348 , 349 , 350. Qu. no Chr. p. 9 , 10. Answ . p. 14. Rejo. p. 420. Qu. no Chr. pag. 190. Rejo. p. 126 , 127 , 425.