An antidote against the venome of a passage, in the 5th. direction of the epistle dedicatory to the whole book of Mr. Richard Baxter teacher at Kederminster in Worcestershire, intituled, The saints everlasting rest, containing a satyricall invective against Anabaptists / by Iohn Tombes B.D. Lately teacher at Bewdley in the same county. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A94730 of text R206421 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E602_20). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). 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A94730) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 117829) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 92:E602[20]) An antidote against the venome of a passage, in the 5th. direction of the epistle dedicatory to the whole book of Mr. Richard Baxter teacher at Kederminster in Worcestershire, intituled, The saints everlasting rest, containing a satyricall invective against Anabaptists / by Iohn Tombes B.D. Lately teacher at Bewdley in the same county. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. [8], 32 p. Printed by Charles Sumptner for Thomas Brewster and Greg. Moule at the three Bibles neer the west-end of Pauls, London : 1650. A response to: Baxter, Richard. The saints everlasting rest. Annotation on Thomason copy: "May 31.". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. -- Saints everlasting rest. A94730 R206421 (Thomason E602_20). civilwar no An antidote against the venome of a passage, in the 5th. direction of the epistle dedicatory to the whole book of Mr. Richard Baxter: teach Tombes, John 1650 14931 9 10 0 0 0 0 13 C The rate of 13 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-05 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-06 Pip Willcox Sampled and proofread 2007-06 Pip Willcox Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion AN ANTIDOTE Against the Venome of a Passage , in the 5th . direction of the Epistle Dedicatory to the whole Book of Mr. Richard Baxter Teacher at KEDERMINSTER in Worcestershire , intituled , The Saints everlasting Rest , containing a Satyricall invective against Anabaptists By IOHN TOMBES B. D. Lately Teacher at BEWDLEY in the same COVNTY . LONDON , Printed by Charles Sumptner for Thomas Brewster and Greg. Moule at the three Bibles neer the West-end of Pauls , 1650. To my dearly beloved Auditors , Magistrates , and People of the Borough of BEWDLEY in WORCESTER-SHIRE . BELOVED , IT was not a little refreshing to mee after my frequent flittings , and much toyle , through which my bodily strength and outward estate were impaired , that being hindred from returning to my former station , I was invited to sit down in the place of my nativity , and to imploy my talent among my kindred and acquaintance , who have known mee from my Child-hood , with hope to be there gathered to my Fathers , where they yielded their spirits to God . Nor was it a little content to mee , that J should speak to so well affected an Auditory , and enjoy the neighbourhood and assistance in the Lords work of so precious a man as Mr. Baxter was , and is still accounted by mee . Jt is therefore a grievance to mee that I remove from you and that jarres have happened between me and Mr. Baxter , the occasion whereof was this , Mr. Baxters dissent from mee about infant-Baptisme being known , there was an endeavour to gaine his arguments in writing , which he declining and provoking me to a publique dispute , notwithstanding many reasons given of the inconveniences thereof , yet it beeing deemed my declining of it to have comen from distrust of my cause , after an answer made to the arguments , I knew urged by any for infant baptisme in certaine Sermons , I yeelded to the dispute with him Ian. 1. A fortnight after or lesse , even while I earnestly sollicited him to let mee have his arguments in writing , that I might examin them , he writes the Epistle , in which the passage is , to which I here answer . It 's told me he intends a larger Treatise of this matter , though before and since the dispute he seemed to be very averse from writing . I conceive by his dispute , that he averres a visible Church-member-ship in infants of godly parents before circumcision was instituted , and from thence he would inferre infant baptisme . What is visible is discernible by some note ; a purpose or promise of God makes not a visible Church-member , if it did many infidels elect should be visible members , while infidels : the birth and actings of believers infants is like to other infants ; what then should make or shew them visible members circumcision set apart , I know not . If it be only to live in a holy family , this visibility ( if it may be so called ) may be granted to remaine , yet as no initial seale ( as it 's called ) did belong to them till Abrahams time , so neither doth it now by vertue of such visibility without institution . If baptisme be a new Testament Ordinance and a mere positive rite no good proofe can be made for it , but from precept or practise in the New Testament , positive rites having no reason , but the appointers will , as a rule to us . And for the institution of Christ Math. 28. 19. Mr. Baxter in his Treatise of the Saints rest pag. 222. 549. paraphraseth Christs words as J do , and in his Appendix . pag. 104. he speaks thus , Doth not the Scripture bid us repent , believe and be baptized for the remission of sinnes ? The institution then is plaine according to my judgement , and so is the practise , yea Mr. Baxter in his Appendix pag. 32. speaks as if he disliked it , that Persons are baptized into they know not what ; which must needs be true of infants when baptized , and pag. 56. he hath these words ; neither are the seales usefull till the accepting , and entring of the Covenant , how then can they be usefull to infants ? One thing more J desire you to take notice of , that in his Treatiss of the Saints rest pag. 651. He hath these words . And their being baptized persons , or members of the universall visible Church ( into which it is that they are baptized ) is sufficient evidence of their interest to the supper , till they by Heresie or scandal blot that evidence . J assume by Mr. Baxters Doctrine , Infants are rightly baptized and are visible members of the universall Church , therefore by his Doctrine there is sufficient evidence of their interest to the supper . Besides if these reasons be good , infants of believers are in the Covenant , they are federally holy , therefore are to have the seale of the Covenant , it will follow they are to have the Communion as wel as baptisme . And if it be good arguing infants were circumcised , our Children a●e to have no lesse priviledge then the Jewes Children , baptisme comes in the roome of circumcition , the Lords Supper of the Passeover , it being certaine that little ones among the Jewes had the passover , it will follow according to these suppositions of paedobaptists , little ones of Christians must have the Lords Supper , as they had in former ages for 600. years together from Cyprians time to Charles the Great For denying which Mr. Baxter others may as wel be termed unthankfull , as Anabaptists so called are by him inconsideratly styled in his Treatise of the saints rest , pag. 534. As for him and others of his judgement , I pray the Lord to open their eyes to see how they have profaned and perverted holy Baptisme , by changing it into sprinkling contrary to the use in Scripture , and ages after , and administring it to infants , whereby is occasioned abundance of ignorance and carnall presumption in the generality of reputed Christians , and is more necessarily to be reformed then Episcopall Ceremonies , against which though much more excusable there have been so great contendings . As for your selves , my love to you continues the same in my absence as in my presence , and my jealousie over you is , least your aversenesse from the Doctrine , J taught you occasion your adhering to meer formall teachers , who may extinguish that power of godlinesse that is among you . I never moved you to entertaine my tenet for my sake : but if it be according to Christs institution , and the Apostles practise ( as if I understand any thing it is ) beware , that disobedience to Christ the great Prophet you be not cut off from his people . Now the God of peace , who brought from the dead the Lord Christ , the great Shepheerd of the sheep , by the blood of the everlasting Covenant , make you perfect to do his will , and stablish and comfort you therein . Thus prayeth Your truly loving Country man and late Teacher John Tombes . London May 22. 1650. The CONTENTS . SEct. 1. pag. 1. Of Anabaptists accusing their owne Children Sect. 2. pag. 3. Of Auabaptists disputing their Children out of the Church and covenant of Christ . Sect. 3. pag. 4. Of Anabaptists affirming their children to be no Disciples , no servants of God , nor holy as separated to God . Sect. 4. pag. 6. Of the Text Levit. 25. 41. 42. Alleaged to prove our children Gods servants . Sect. 5. pag. 7. Of the Text Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. Alleaged to prove our Infants to be visible church-members . Sect. 6. pag. 9. Of the Text Acts 15 , 10. Alleaged to prove our Infants Disciples of Christ . Sect. 7. pag. 11. Of the Text 1 Cor. 7. 14. Alleaged to prove our Infants holy as seperated to God . Sect. 8. pag. 20. Of Gods speaking by judgements from Heaven against Anabaptists . Sect. 9. pag. 24. Of the Anabaptists evill lives . Sect. 10. pag. 28. Of the Anabaptists confident expressions , weaknesse upon triall and dispute at Bewdley : Jan. 1. 1649. ERRATA . ADde to the margin page 2 at line 15. these words . See Salmas . apparat . ad libr de primatu Papae page 192. Voss . Thes. 6 de Baptismo page 4 l. 14 r & in page 7 l 14 blot out ( it ) page 7 l 34 yee r yet , page 8 l 21 r on v 15 in the margin r before Christs comming page 9 l 29 tencher r teacher page 10 l 1 if r is , l 11 businesse r businesse l 15 circumtion r circumcision page 13 l 34 thu r thus page 16 l 18 mani r manifestly page 24 l 6 7 how near it is , r is neare . AN ANTIDOTE AGAINST Mr. BAXTERS Invective against Anabaptists : SECT. 1. Of Anabaptists accusing their own Children . THere came newly to my hands this following passage , which because it doth mainly reflect on my selfe , I conceive my selfe necessitated to answer it . Anabaptists , saith Mr. Baxter , play the Divells part in accusing their own Children and disputing them out of the Church and Covenant of Christ , and affirming them to be no Disciples , no servants of God , nor holy as separated to him ; when God saith the contrary , Levit. 25. 41. 42. Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. &c. Acts 15. 10. 1 Cor. 7. 14. Answ. Though Mr. Baxter speaks of Anabaptists in the plurall , yet the passage it selfe , and the circumstances of it , well known in these partes , evidence it to be directed either solely , or mainly against my selfe . The terme [ Anabaptists ] I own not , any more , then my Infant sprinkling , The Faith I owne , but not the Ceremony They are unjustly called Anabaptists who have beene Baptized after their own profession of the faith of Christ , though they had water sprinkled or poured on their faces by an Officiating Priest when they were Infants . Sprinkling is not Baptizing , nor Infants the Subjects of the Baptisme of Water appointed by Christ , or practised by the Apostles . Mr. Baxter offered to prove , In the beginning of the Dispute after mentioned , that dipping in cold water is murder and Adultery . It seems he dare undertake to prove , the snow black , he is so confident of his nimble wit , and ready tongue . Thousands in the primitive times , ( in which Baptizing was by dipping until Hieroms time at least in the 4th . Century ) Thousands in these dayes are so baptized without murder or adultery . And therefore Mr. Baxters assertion is contrary to sense and experience . He may do much I believe , but will never be able to prove Infant Baptisme , or sprinkling instead of it , to be the duty ordained by Christ , Math. 28. 19. Mark . 16. 16. The seven Churches under Baptisme about London disclaime the Title of Anabaptists , in the Preface to their Confession of faith , under that terme all the Pelagian and Arminian errours , all those pestilent errours of Community of Goods , denying civill Magistracy , lawfullnesse of taking an Oath to end strife and sundry other are charged on them , that deny Infant Baptisme , I may well say ] in a Divelish manner , by many Preachers ; to make them odious to the people ; that they might drive them away out of the Land ; if not destroy them : and therefore if Mr. Baxter , who knowes how odious the terme is , had minded equity or peace he had chosen rather to stile us Antipaedobaptists , then Anabaptists . But what sayes he of us ? Anabaptists play the Devils part in accusing their own Children . A most virulent charge , which shews Mr. Baxter kept no moderation of spirit , nor heeded what he wrote . The Devils part in accusing , is either by himselfe , or his Instruments , before God , or before men , or in their own conscience . Mr. Baxter may as soone bring water out of a pumice stone , as prove we do , any of these wayes , play the Devills part . But perhaps it will be said we accuse them however . To accuse , is to charge with a fault or crime . I know no fault or crime we charge our Children with meaning our infant Children , but their birth sin ; of which Mr. Baxter hath been heard to charge them , as deep as any of us . But it is unnaturall in us , to accuse our own Children perhaps . I blesse God he hath given me Children , to whom I bear a naturall affection , as tender as another . If Mr. Baxter meane , denying Baptisme to belong to them in infancy , to be the playing the Devils part in accusing them , he must give me leave to think , that he himselfe playes the Devills part in asserting , that it belongs to them till he prove it appointed by Christ , or used by his Apostles ( which I expect to be done by him , ad Graecas Calendas ) and so much the rather do I think he playes the Devills part therein , because experience proves , that Thousands are hardned in carnal presumption , to their perdition by conceiving their Infant Baptisme to make them Christians , and so heires of heaven . SECT. 2. Of Anabaptists disputing their Children out of the Church and Covenant of Christ . ANother thing wherein Mr. Baxter sayes we play the Divels part is in disputing our Children out of the Church and Covenant of Christ . I answer . The Church of Christ is either visible or invisible : the Covenant of Christ may be meant either of Christs Covenant to them , or theirs to Christ : by disputing them out of the Church may be meant either that by our disputing , we keep them out of the Church and Covenant of Christ , or cast them out being admitted . It is true I have asserted in disputation that according to the constitution of the visible Church of Christians Infants are not visible Church Members and I still assert it . For the visible Church of Christians is a company of believers art . 19 of the Church of England ; and therefore till a person is a believer he is not a visible Church member according to the frame of the Christian Church , which is not a whole Nation joyned together in one Community by the civill Magistrate , as the Jewish Church was , but a company of believers made such by the preaching of the Gospel . And this definition of the visible Church was formerly received among Protestants without the addition which the Assembly lately put to it in their Confession of Faith ch. 25 is avouched in disputes against Papists concerning the notes of the Church : As for the invisible Church or Covenant of Christ to them I have often shewed in my examen of Mr. Marshalls Sermon and elsewhere that I do say as much concerning their interest in them as Mr. Marshall speaking consideratly will avouch . I thank God by my preaching and disputing . Sundry have beene brought into the Church and Covenant of Christ , none do I know that have been kept , or cast out by my disputing , and therefore in this accusation of me , Mr. Baxter may be more truly said to play the Divils part then my selfe . SECT. 3. Of Anabaptists affirming their Children to be no Disciples , no servants of God nor holy as separated to God . BUt however perhaps I play the Divels part in the third thing Mr. Baxter sayes Anabaptists do , affiirming them to be no Disciples , no Servants of God , nor holy as separated to God . This I am sure alludes to the dispute between me and Mr. Baxter , in which Mr. Baxter would have proved Infants might be baptized , because Disci●les of Christ which he would prove out of Acts. 15. 10. And because they are called servants of God , which he would prove from Levit. 25 , 41. 42. and holy as separated to God from 1 Cor. 7. 14. And members of the visible Church , because of their entring into Covenant . Deut. 29. 10. 11 , 12. And this was the maine of his dispute of which he so much crakes in this passage of his preface to his book , in which he urged no more Texts , that I remember , out of which he concluded Infant Baptisme , excepting that of Rom. 11. 19. 20. The thing that I affirmed in the dispute was , that Infants are not servants of God as it is equipolent to Disciples of Christ , for one that actively and willingly serves God , such service of God alwayes requiring the use of reason , which Infants have not . In which sense also I denyed them to be Disciples , that is such as being taught the Gospell of Christ by preaching of it , do embrace it , which sort of Disciples only are appointed to be baptized Math. 28. 19. compared with Mark 16. 15. Mr. Baxter The Saints everl . rest , Page 549. He gave them authority to send forth others on the same message , and to baptize and gather Churches . As for the terme [ holy as separated to God ] the thing I said in the dispute was conc●rning the Text 1 Cor. 7. 14. whether there [ holy ] be as much as separated to God , which I denied . But for the thing it selfe , could I have had liberty to expresse my selfe without checking , ( which all that were present know I could not have in the disputation ) I would have distinguished of a state of separation unto God either by election , as separation is taken : Gal. 1. 13. or by calling , in the former sense , I deny not but our children are or may be holy , as the Jewes yet unborne are said to be Rom. 11. 16. which thing I also in my Exercitation pag. 10. had heretofore shewed in my answer to the argument for Infants baptisme out of 1 Cor. 7. 14. but in the latter I deny it . If Mr. Baxter understand it in a third sense I shall give an answer about it , when I understand what way he affirmes , our children are separated to God . SECT. 4. Of the Text Levit. 25. 41. 42. alleaged to prove our Children Gods servants . BUt Mr. Baxter sayes , God saith the contrary to my affirmation Levit. 25. 41. 42. Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. act 15. 10. 1 Cor. 7. 14. The text Lev. 25. 41. 42. saith the Hebrew servant shall not be held in bondage , but till the year of Iubilee , then he shall depart both he and his Children , for they are Gods servants , But this Text speaks only of the Israelites Children whom God brought out of the Land of Egypt , and the reason of their being his servants , is taken meerly from that , and to shew the priviledge they had above other servants and their Children , and distinguishingly v 55. unto me the Children of Israel are servants what is this to our Children ? God saith , the children of the Israelites are Gods servants , I say our Children are not , is there any contrariety in these speeches where the subjects of the propofitions are not the same ? Besides when I said our Children , that is our Infant Children are not Gods servants , I meant actually , but that which God saith , Levit. 25. 42 : that they are his servants , is meant only of what they are de jure of right , and then the predicates of the Propositions are different , and therefore no contrariety , yet again , servants of God are either actively such or passively , as the Heavens : Psal. 119. 91. are called Gods servants : Nebuchadnez●zer is called , Gods servant , Ierem. 43. 10. were the Heavens and Nebuchadnezar Disciples of Christ and to be baptized ? SECT. 5. Of the Text Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. Alleaged to prove our Infants to be visible Church-members . THe next Text Deut. 29. 10 , 11. 12. was alleaged to prove that our Children are visible Church members . because the little ones of the Israelites entered into Covenant with God , that he might establish them to be his people , and this a Gospell Covenant Deut. 30. 6. 11. 12 , 13. 14. To this I answered 1 that [ thou ] v. 12. doth not necessarly comprehend the little ones . This Mr. Baxter in the disputation turning himselfe to the people told them was to contradict the Text expressely , and he sought to suggest to them as if it were my impudence , and said ; that if it the Papists had as plaine express Scripture as Deut. 29. 12. was to prove that all even little ones did enter into Covenant , he would turne Papist . But for all Mr. Baxters hast , I presume he would be better advised , if he did consider , v. 14. [ you ] are distinguished from them that stand there before the Lord &c. v. 12. [ thou ] only is said to enter into Covenant , and therefore though all v. 10. are said to stand , yet it is not without some likely hood that [ thou ] v. 12. notes only some that entred into Covenant in the behalfe of the rest . And if the passing into Covenant were as Piscator in his Scholie , that thou mayest passe through the parts of the divided living creatures in testimony of the Covenant , ( to which Ainsworth notes the phrase to allude , surely , neither the little ones , nor all the rest did passe between the parts of the beasts divided , but some instead of the rest . 2. But were it granted that the little ones are said to enter into Covenant , yet this doth not prove them to be visible members . For. v. 15. it is said that Moses made that Covenant and Oath with him that was not there with them that day , that is their posterity not yee borne , as lackson , Piscator , Ainsworth , Grotius the new Annot : &c , shall it therefore be said that the posterity unborne were visible members of the Jewish Church in the wildernesse ? 3. It must be and was granted by Mr. Baxter in the dispute , that this entring into Covenant was not by their owne act but by their Parents for them . But such an entring into Covenant doth not make a viable Church member in the Christian Church , however it did in the Jewish Church , there being a different Church state or frame in the Christian Church which was gathered by the preaching of the Gospell from the Israelites Church state & frame made by the Authority of Abraham & Moses without teaching of the persons gathred . 4. Be it that the Covenant were to establish them to be a people to God and that he may be a God to them , yet this doth not prove the Covenant to be a pure Gospel Covenant , not including peculiar benefits to the Jewish Nation : For there is a plaine restriction in the words , as he hath said unto thee , and as he hath sworne unto thy Fathers to Abraham , to Isaac , & to Iacob , which undoubtedly comprehended their settling in Canaan , which was proper only to them as Israelites , which may be proved out of many passages following , as Deut , 29 , 21. 28. Deut. 30. 1. 4. 5. 9 , &c. Yea Ainsworth v. 15. notes that the Covenant was made with their posterity , with exception of the new Covenant in Christ , so that by him this Covenant and the Covenant in Christ are not all one . As for that which is alleaged out of Deut. 30. 14. that it is the Gospell Covenant , because it is said Rom. 10. 8. This is the word of faith which we preach , I Answer , the words v. 8. 10. 11. speak expressely of the word of Command & v. 14. the word is nigh to thee that thou mayst do it , which is not meant of a promise but a command of the Law : nor will it prove that then the Appostle allegeth it inpertinently : for it is frequent with the Apostle to accommodate words to his purpose , that have a different sense in the places whence they are taken from that , to which the Apostle applieth them , as Rom. 10. 18. &c. Lastly if it did containe promises purely Evangelical , yet the Covenant in respect of them cannot be meant of all and every of the Israelites that God would be a God to them , that is sanctify , justifie , adopt them to be Heirs of eternall life . For then Gods promise to them should not be true , For with many of them God was not well pleased 1 Cor. 10. 5. Heb. 3. 17 19. but only of the elect . As for that Deut. 30. 6. I confesse it is a promise of spirituall grace , but to the Jews after their captivity upon condition of obedience , and to them indefinitely , which was never performed to all their seed , but only to the elect among them , and therefore must be so limited , as the promise , Isai. 54. 13. is by our Lord Christ , Iohn 6. 45. and the promise Gen. 17. 7. is by the Apostle Rom. 9. 6. 7. 8. SECT. 6. Of the text Acts 15. 10. alleaged to prove our Infants Disciples of Christ . THe next Text alleaged by Mr. Baxter is Acts 15. 10. where he would have it thought , that God sayes that our Infant Children are Disciples , and therefore to be baptised according to the institution , Math. 28. 19. To which I answer . 1. By putting Mr. Baxter in mind of his own objection against my interpretation of the words , 1 Cor 7. 14. [ but now are they holy ] that it is more likely the word should be taken in a sense in which it is 600. times taken for [ separated to God ] then in my sense , in which it is no where else taken signifying [ legitimate . ] For if this reason be good , it holds against himselfe , who takes the word [ Disciples ] in a sense applicable to Infants , in which sense it is no where else taken , though it be used for one that is a follower of a Tencher 300. times in the Evangelists , and the Acts of the Apostles , of which either 100. or very neare it is used by Luke 2. Mr. Baxters interpretation will apaeare to be manifestly wrested to any that will but consider that the putting the yoak on the necks of the Disciples , is the same with that which is mentioned v. 1. they taught the brethren , and v. 5. they said that it was needfull to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the Law of Moses , and v. 24. certaine which went out from us , have troubled you with words , subverting your soulis saying , ye must be circumcised and keep the Law . Now if any man so sencelesse as to think they did these things to Infants ? 3. The Text v. 1. 23. calls them brethren , sayes v. 9. their hearts were purified by faith upon the hearing of the word which none but those that are resolved to outface a plaine truth would averre to be meant of Infants . 4. Lastly Mr. Baxter confessed in privat conference with mee , that the putting the yoak was by teaching , and indeed it may easily be evinced that their act was not to take a knife or sharp stone and therewith in their owne persons cut off the little skin of male Infants , but that they made it their businesse to subvert the soules of converted Gentiles to hold it necessary that they should be circumcised themselves : if the putting the yoak had been actuall circumcision , it had not been put on their necks , but elsewhere . Besides actuall circum●tion that is , the losse of a little skin was and might be borne , and is at this day by many people whereas it is said , the Yoak they put was such as neither the present Iewes , nor their Fathers were able to beare . From all which I inferre that none are there meant by the terme [ Disciples ] but they that were taught by the false Teachers , nor the yoak any other then the Doctrine or opinion of the necessity of circumcision , and keeping of Moses his Law . In like manner Christs Doctrine is called his yoak Math. 11. 29. 30. Pisc. in his Scholie on Acts 15 , 10. Iugum {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} nempe legem Mosis ex collatione v. 5. Grot. amot . ad Actor 15. 10. Rabbini usurpant de doctrina quae aliquid omnino faciendum inculcat , And in like manner the yoak of bondage Gal. 5. 1. is the Law Gal. 4. 21. And is generally by Divines handling the Doctrine of Christian liberty made to be the teaching and holding circumcision and Moses Law as the necessary way to justification and salvation , and that the Habassine Christians who are circumcised yet are not intangled with the yoak of bondage , because their consciences are free , and so it is to be understood v. 2. whosoever is circumcised that is , who is circumcised willingly out of the opinion of its necessity , and sufficiency to salvation Christ shall profit you nothing , yea but saith Mr. Baxter it is circumcision as obliging to Moses Law , and if it be not meant of circumcision circumcision is not condemned in that Councel . I answer , All the Colour Mr. Baxter hath from this Text to prove Infants disciples is by conceiving the yoak to note barely and precisely the cutting off a little skin : but to say it is circumcision as obliging to Moses Law is to say the samewhich I say that it is not circumcision as acted , but as taught , sith the Doctrin or command obliged to Moses Law , not the bare cutting away the little skin . And yet circumcision is in that councel taken away , sith he that by teaching , shewes the command to cease , doth thereby take away the practise , as with us they that deny Ordinances do binddo take away the use of them yet further if it were granted Mr. Baxter , that the yoak were the taking away of the little skin the terme Disciples would not necessarily comprehend Infants , though the false Teachers aimes were also to have Infants circumcised , yet they would first have the Bre-sthren of years circumcised & so the tearm [ Disciples ] note only them , although Infants should be by that means circumcised , yet not meant by the terme [ Disciples ] Lastly were it granted that the terme [ Discples ] did note Infants , yet it could note no other then males according to Mr. Baxters owne explication , for they only were to be circumcised , and therefore femall Infants should not be thence proved Disciples , nor to be Baptized . From all which the Reader may perceive how sleighly these arguments of Mr. Baxter are , and how superficially he hath handled this businesse . SECT. 7. Of the Text 1 Cor. 7. 14. alleaged to prove our Infants holy as separated to God . THe other Text that remaines hath more shew for his purpose then all the rest , Mr. Baxter saith ; Anabaptists affirme their own Children not to be holy as separated to God ; when God saith the contrary 1 Cor. 7. 14 I Answer , what others whom he calls Anabaptists affirme in this thing , I am not ingaged to inquire : I beleeve if Mr. Baxter were required to set down who those Anabaptists are , and where they affirme it , he would be hard put to it to free himselfe from overlashing . But I am assured Mr. Baxter wrote this passage in hast , and inconsideratly not well weighing what he said , and that however he name Anabaptists in the plurall , yet his only instance would be my selfe affirming in the disputation after mentioned . But the thing I affirmed in the disputation was not so rawly expressed as Mr. Baxter doth , I said this , that every child of a believer is not , because a believers child holy as separated to God , nor doth holy 1 Cor. 7. 14. signifie as much as separated to God . To conceive of which it is to be noted that a person may be said to be separated to God , either in Gods purpose by his election , or in promise by his Covenant , or in his present condition either by Gods calling to the knowledge of Christ , or speciall employment for God , or by his owne profession , or by vow of parents , or by some speciall gift or priviledge or if there be any other way whereby a person may be said to be separated to God . I never affirmed that none of these wayes my children , or other believers children are holy as separated to God : I only said that every child of a believer is not because a believers child holy as separated to God . If Mr. Baxter had told me in what manner he meant believers children to be holy as separated to God , I should have told him in the disputation more fully what I affirme or deny in this thing . But all that were Auditors of the dispute might , and many did take notice how Mr. Baxter checked me , when I did but desire him to explaine the terme of visible Church member , and to shew by what note he meant some Infants were visible Church-members , saying it was to catechize him , and when I told him it was necessary the people should be satisfied , he told me , his comming was to dispute with mee , not to satisfie them . and all along the dispute how magisterially , scornfully , and unbrotherly he carried himselfe , not as one that minded clearing of truth , but to diminish my esteem , and to gain an opinion to himself as having the better I think the Auditors will testifie ; and for this reason I obtained not from him to shew in what manner , and by what means he asserted every believers infant to be holy as separated to God , so that in fine the dispute was only about the meaning of the terme [ holy ] 1 Cor. 7. 14. whether it signifie a state of separation to God as Mr. Baxter conceived , or legitimation as I conceived . In which businesse though I should be mistaken in the meaning which I give , yet it doth not follow Mr. Baxter is in the right : possibly both may be mistaken , and then however it serves not Mr. Baxters purpose , which is as much as J need demonstrate , yet because J desire truth may be discovered , J shall by answering what Mr. Baxter brought either for his owne sense or against mine , shew how little cause of triumph there was in any thing he brought at the disputation about this Text . Jf Mr. Baxter say J do not truely set downe his reasons or meaning , the fault is in himselfe , who though often requested would never communicate to me his arguments in writing , but left me to gather what J could from mine own memory and others notes . That which Mr. Baxter said of the meaning of this Text was to this effect . Holinesse 1 Cor. 7. 14. signifies a state of separation to God : for so the word is constantly taken neare 600. times , and no where for legitimate . And the Apostles meaning is , the unbelieving wife is sanctified to the husband , that is to his use , passively , though not actively , remotely , though not immediatly , as it is said 1 Tim. 4. 5. every creature is sanctified by the word of God and prayer , and Tit. 1. 15. to the pure all things are pure , else were your children uncleane , that is were it not the unbelieving wife were sanctified thus to the beleevers use , your children , the infant children of you believers ; having unbelieving wives were unclean , that is not separated to God , but now , that is this being determined that the unbelieving wife is thus sanctified to the believing Husbands use your children , that is the children of you believing Corinthians , who have unbelieving wives are holy , that is are separated to God . The same is the sense mutat is mutandis of that which is said concerning the believing wife and unbelieving Husband . To which J say : Holines it is true notes a state of separation to God : and yet it is apparent that 1 Thes. 4. 3. 4. 7. it signifies barely chastity of the body without fornication , to which sense the use of [ holy ] for [ legitimate ] is neare . And when holy notes a state of separation to God , that separation is many wayes , as by election , Covenant , calling vowing , offering , anointing , prayer , Ordinance , apparition &c. and to many purposes or uses as to glorifie God , do service at the Temple , execute judgement &c. If Mr. Baxter would distinctly tell me , what way , and to what use he would have the children of believers holy as separated to God in the Text , 1 Cor. 7. 14. J conceive he would not find one of all his 600. places , in which it is taken just in his sense , so as that it may be verified of the infants he meanes . Jt is true God saith , the Corinthians children were holy , but he doth not say they were holy as separated to God as Mr. Baxter would have it . Jn what sense it is there taken , J conceive can be gathered no way but by analysing the Apostles words and finding out of what holinesse his speech can be true , which J have already in my Examen of Mr. Marshalls sermon and my Apology and post script proved to be only legitimation and may yet more fully prove in my review of the dispute about infant-baptisme if ever it be published , against all that Mr. Marshall , Mr. Geree , Mr. Blake , Mr. Cobbet , Mr. Church or any other I have met with reply to my examen : Nor is it unusuall with interpreters to take a word in a sense in which it is used no where else , when the matter ' scope , and other circumstances of the Text lead to that sense as in that Epistle , 1 Cor. 11. 10. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which every where else signifies power or authority there confessedly signifies a veile , and the phrase of due benevolence is used 1 Cor. 7. 3. in a sense in which it is used no where else , and the like may be said of the word [ forme ] Phil. 1. 6 , of the word [ Church ] Math. 18. 17. and many more . As for Mr. Baxters exposition I conceive it not right . 1 Because if the sanctification be understood as Mr. Baxter would have it in that sense the unbeliever is said to be sanctified only to the true real believer before God , who by prayer doth sanctifie the other party to his or her use , for of such only it is true , to them every thing is sanctified by Prayer , sith they only can pray , and to them only all things are pure , not to them , who though they professe they know God , yet in works deny him Tit 1. 16. This then is Mr. Baxters sense , For the unbelieving Husband is sanctified to the use of a believing wife , who is truly and really a believer before God , and not only by profession before men , unto whom by vertue of her true faith and prayer her Husband is sanctified to her use and pure to her . But if this were the sense then the reason of the Apostle had reached only to the resolution of such to live with their unbelieving yoke-fellowes the rest were not to continue with them , because they were not sanctified to them , whereas the doubt was concerning any visible believer or brother , and accordingly the Apostles resolution . Besides supposing any true reall believers doubted of the truth of their owne faith , they would be deterred by the Apostles reason so understood from living with their unbelieving yok-fellowes as being not sanctified to them . Againe the Apostle had resolved them of the lawfullnesse of their continuing together by a reason taken from a thing only known to God , and their own conscience , whereas his intent was to resolve all concerning the lawfullnesse of living together , with their yoke-fellowes in disparity of Religion by a reason taken from a thing obvious to them all . 2. Mr. Baxters sense supposeth that the cause of the sanctification of the unbeliever is the faith of the believer , but if so then doubtlesse the Apostles would have expressed it thus [ to or in the believing wife or husband ] whereas it is only said [ in or to the husbnnd or wife ] without adding the terme [ believing ] which manifestly shews the Apostle placed not the Emphasis in it . For who will leave out the word in which the Emphasis is put and not rather expresse it remarkably ? 3. If the sense be as Mr. Baxttr would have it , then this proposition is true ▪ as being included in the Apostles reasoning : The Children whereof one of the Parents is not a reall true believer before God are none of them holy as separated to God . But it is false , take the separation to God what way and to what use he will , the child of professed unbelievers , much more the child of professed believers , though not really such before God may be , and perhaps is separated to God . Now that these Propositions [ All the Children whereof one parent is not sanctified to the other are uncleane , none of the children whereof one of the Parents is not sanctified to the other are cleane or holy ] are included in the Apostles consequence is confessed by Chamier , Mr. Blake and others as I shew in my Examen , Postscript and other writings , nor do I know any that deny it , and if they should it might easily be evinced to any that is acquainted with the rules of reasoniug , and therefore according to Mr. Baxters explication , the Apostle must assert [ that all the Children whereof one of the Parents is not sanctified to the others use , being a true reall believer before God are unclean , none holy as separated to God , ] which being manifalse Mr. Baxters exposition is apparently erroneous . Lastly if his sense were allowed him , then the baptizing any Infant but such whereof one of the next parents is a reall believer before God would be unlawfull , for such only are holy in his sense , and the rest uncleane : But it being knowne only to God that one of the Parents is a true reall believer before God , it will follow no Ministers ought to baptize any infant at all without revelation from God , that one of the Parents is a true real believer , otherwise we shall baptize the uncleane , or unholy who have not a right to be baptized . To tel , us as Mr. Baxter did in private conference with mee , that by a judgement of Charity , a professed believer is to be taken to be a reall believer , I answer be it granted , yet that is not sufficient to justifie the baptizing the child of such a one according to Mr. Baxters exposition , sith as he expounds the Apostle it is requisite that the parent be a true believer before God , or else the child is uncleane , that is in his sense unbaptizable . Besides the judgement of Charity is not that by which persons are to proceede in Baptizing , but the certaine judgement of Verity arising from Ministeriall Skill and Prudence , to know what is the true Profession , and from sense , that the Person to be Baptized maketh such Profession . Mr. Baxter himself in his Appendix to his Aphorismes Pag. 58. dare not you to dispence Gods Seales upon your conjectures of the probability or improbability of Mens sincerity . These things being true , though I should be mistaken in my sense , yet Mr. Baxters arguments were answered : yet ex abundanti I shall answer Mr. Baxters Exceptions against my interpretation , which according to my memory , and the Notes which I could procure of the Disputation between us were these . The sense is not right which thus interpreteth the Apostles Speech . The Vnbelieving Wife is sanctified to the Husband , that is , in respect of lawfull use of Marriage is as if he were Sanctified ; else were your Children uncleane , that is bastards , but now they are holy , that is legitimate . For 1. The word Sanctified signifies somewhat more then lawfully used . Pagans actions may be said to be lawfull , not Sanctified . 2. It is no good consequence , your Marriage continues lawfull in the use in opposition to Fornication ; therefore you may dwell together lawfully in opposition to Piety . 3. The argument is taken a notiori : but it could not be more known to them that their Children were legitimate , then that their Marriage was lawfull . 4. If it were better known that their Children were legitimate then that their Marriage were lawfull , because of the change of Religion , then they should doubt of their Childrens legitimation , who were borne since their conversion , and not of those that were borne before , which were an irrationall Fancy . To this I answer . 1. It is not said the Unbelievers action is sanctified , but the Unbeliever , and Unbelieveing Medes are said to be Gods Sanctified ones , Isai. 14 3. But be the word taken so as not to be applied to a Pagan in its proper acception , yet the sence I give alters not the usuall sense , onely it supposeth the meaning of the word to be taken with some diminution by a Catachresis , or acytology , that is abuse or impropriety of speech , which is a very frequent thing , as 1 Cor. 10. 2. were Baptized , that is , quasi baptizati sunt ( as Grotius rightly notes on that place ) they were as if they had been baptized : the Cloud and Sea were to them as baptisme to us . And so here the unbelieving Husband hath been Sanctified : that is , to his Wife in respect of the use of him , as if he had been Sanctified : which is a plaine and easie Exposition . 2. The Corinthians doubted of the lawfulnesse of living with the Unbelieving yokefellow , by reason of the unholiness of the Unbeliever , which they questioned whether it did not necessitate a divorce or departure , though they doubted not of their Childrens legitimation , either borne afore or after their conversion , they yet living with the Unbeliever . The Apostles answer I conceive to be thus . You may lawfully continue together notwithstanding the unbelief of the yokefellow ? for he being a Husband though an Unbeliever is , as if he were Sanctified in respect of Marriage use , else were your Children you have borne in this estate uncleane , that is illegitimate which you do not conceive . Though the occasion of the doubt were the Impiety of the one party , yet the doubt was onely whether divorce were necessary ; which is rightly answered by telling them they might lawfully continue in Marriage use . As in like case if a Papist doubt whether she must not be divorced from her Lutheran Husband lately converted to it , the answer is right by telling her no , for the Marriage relation continues though her Husband be an Heretique ; else should her Children borne since he was made a Lutheran be illegitimate , of which she doubts not . 3. It might be more known to them that their Children were legitimate , then that living with the Unbeliever continued lawfull , because there was not such occasion of doubt concerning the Children , as of the Professed Unbeliever , and for some other reasons , perhaps through meere incogitancy of the connexion , between the unlawfulnesse of their living together and the illegitimation of their Children , as it happened to them , 1 Cor. 15. 12. and is incident to men , and women as rationall as they . 4. According to the interpretation I give , there is no intimation of doubt concerning the Childrens legitimacy , either borne before or after conversion ; nor needs there be to make good the Exposition I give . As for [ else were your Children unclean ] the consequence of the Apostle might be good in my sense if it be meant either of the Children borne before , or after conversion of the one party ; it is true of either , that if the Unbelieving husband were not as if he had been sanctified to his Wife , in respect of lawfull conjugall use , their Children were illegitimate , but I think upon mature consideration , it is the most cleer Exposition to understand it of those borne since the conversion of one Party . Upon this Answer to Mr. Baxter , I presume the Reader will perceive my Exposition no irrationall fancy , which is the interpretation of Ambrose , Hierome , Anselme , Aquinas , Melanchthon , Camerarius , Osiander , Gagnaeus , Musculus , Suarez , Mariana , and many others , who have been conceived men able to discerne between reason and irrationall fancies as actuely as Mr. Baxter , though I conceive of his abilities as excellent . However still the Christian that would not delude his conscience , me thinks should feare to goe against the plaine Institution of Christ , and Practise of the Apostles , and first Ages of the Church ; in which Infant-baptisme was neither appointed nor Practised , upon such uncertaine Expositions and Consequences , as Mr. Baxter hath brought , and I may now freely say however they seemed somewhat at the first hearing , yet now upon exact consideration , for the consequences from his three first Scriptures here brought frivolous , and I doubt urged more like a Sophister then a lover of truth . The rest of Mr. Baxters Passage hath with it a manifest tincture of reviling , little of reason : yet because such speeches too easily take with People , who are of all others most prejudiced against those they call Anabaptists , and who I thinke are as unequally dealt with as any men , I will make an answer to it . SECT. 8 Of Gods speaking by judgements from Heaven against Anabaptists . MAster Baxter goes on thus : I cannot digresse to fortify you against these Sects : you have seene God speak against them by judgements from Heaven ; what were the two monsters in new England but miracles ? Ans. He is pleased to stile , Antinomians , Socinians , Arminians , Separatists , Independents , Anabaptists , ( falsly so called ) Sects . Those whom he calls Independents , disclaim the Title , and deny themselves to be a Sect , and so doe Antipaedobaptists . Let reason be heard ; why should men be any more called a Sect , for denying that it is of Divine appointment , that a Synod of many Churches should have power to excommunicate , then others called Presbyterians for holding it ? why should Antipaedobaptists be called a Sect for denying that Infants are appointed by Christ to be Baptized rather then Paedobaptists for affirming it ? If for their Tenet they are called a Sect , surely they that so plainly turne aside from the expresse institution , Mat. 28. 19 , 20. Mark . 16. 5. 16. which almost all Expositors , and not a few Paedobaptists even in their writings for Paedobaptisme do acknowledge to appoint onely the Baptizing of Disciples made by Preaching , and from the manifest Practise of the Apostles , are more worthy the Name of a Sect , or Sectaries ; if for non-Communion with others of a contrary judgement I wish each man would lay his hand on his heart , and examine whether he hath not been the maker of the breach : For my own part I am assured , I can better aquit my selfe from it then the chief of my Antagonists . Surely Mr. Baxter in this his Invective , chiefly in his rash and hasty reckoning me among Hereticks , even then when I made earnest suite to him to have his Arguments in writing that I might examine them ( which I cannot any way obtaine as yet ) hath more manifestly shewed himself resolved to break with Me , and to renounce Me as one unfit for communion with him , then any action I ever did shewed the like disposition in Me towards him , Mr. Baxter sayth I cannot digresse to fortifie you against these Sects . I confesse a Discourse against those Sects , as he calls them , had been a Digression from the subject of his Treatise , but not from the matter of his Epistle , and the fifth Direction he gives to his Neighbours of Kederminster . But why can he not digresse ? I can ghesse no other reason but his haste : willing he was in his Epistle before that Book which was likely to sell , to blast my reputation by Name , and other dissenters from him without naming them ; whether to ease his stomack or to what other end he knowes best , though he little considered what he wrote . He goes on : you have seen God speake against them by judgements from Heaven ; what were the two monsters in New England , but miracles ? I Answer , what judgements from heaven by wch God spak against the Sects he mentions , they had seen , I could never yet learn of his Neighbours , though I have lived very near them , have often conversed with them , and had them my auditors till ( I imagin ) M. Baxters opposition to Me took them off . Nor doe I think if Mr. Baxter were put to name the judgements by which God spake from Heaven against the Sects he names , would he mention any other then the two Monsters in New England , which I am confident neither Mr. Baxter , nor any of his Neighbours of Kederminster saw . These two Monsters are mentioned in the Margin of his book Pag. 232. to be the most hideous monstrous births of Mistris Hutchinson , and Mistris Dier . In Mr. Welds story of the Antinomians ; I finde mention in the Preface of thirty monstrous births or thereabouts brought forth by Mistris Hutchinson at once ; some of them bigger , some of them lesser , some of one shape some of another , few of any perfect shape , none at all of them ( so far as he could learne ) of humane shape . And of Mistris Dyer that she brought forth her birth of a woeman child , a Fish , a beast , and a foule , all woven together in one , and without an head , which he describes pag. 44. of his Story . The truth of the Relation I question not : but that they were Miracles as Mr. Baxter takes the word [ Miracle ] in his second part , Ch. 4. Sect. 1. &c. in which he distinguisheth between Wonders and Miracles , I think cannot be made good . If we finde not the like story in every point , yet we reade of many monstrous births , as that of the Earle of Hollands daughter and many other : yet neither Divines , nor Philosophers , nor Physicians that I know do reckon them among Miracles . Nor do I think it a very safe way to take such Accidents as Arguments for , or against any Tenet . Camden in his Britannia describing Wiltshire , makes mention of a Synod in Calne , whereat upon the falling of the roome , and preservation of Dunstan it was judged , that God had determined for Monkery . Many more such strange accidents doe both Heathen , and Ecclesiasticall Histories mention for confirmation of superstition and errors , which Mr. Baxter himself takes notice of Pag. 240. by which People have been lead to errors . And therefore I think Mr. Baxter doth ill to direct his Neigbhours of Kederminster , to such accidents to fortifie them against Sects . And I have ever judged it a very unsafe , and I thinke an evill course that many Preachers have taken to affright their People with relations of accidents , befalling Men whom they judge erroneous , thereby to deter them from so much as examining their Tenet ; as being contrary to Pauls admonition of trying all things , 1 Thess. 5. 21. and directing to another way of discerning between truth and error , then the holy Scripture contrary to John 5. 39. Mark . 12. 24. 2 Tim. 3. 16. Deut. 13. 1 , 2. and Isai. 8. 20. &c. which is derogatory to the Scriptures use , and directing them by judgements from heaven to judge of Doctrines , of which many Relations are not true , as I am sure for one instance in the relations of Gods Judgement upon Sabbath breakers , to which Mr. Baxter referrs Pag. 230. concerning Mr. Powle of Lemster in my time of being there , and not far off from the place when it happened , in the relation of which there are sundry mistakes and untruths , nor did the circumstances shew the accident to be Gods Voyce , to that end the compiler of that Book applies it . But if the relations of the accidents be true , yet it is uncertaine whether the Devill do not speak by them , untill it appear first that the Tenet they are applied to confirme be of God , which may be known by the Scriptures without relying on such accidents . And it is well known that Papists use them as well as the Orthodox , and make them a note of their Church and Doctrine , which is rejected by Protestants . But were it granted a safe way to judge of Doctrines by such judgements of God ; yet in all the story of Mr. Weld forementioned , I finde not a word of Mistris Hutchinson , or Mistris Dyer , or any other of these whose errors are taken to be condemned by those accidents , as holding Antipaedobaptisme . I finde Mistris Dyer and her Husband to have been taken for Familists , Pag. 44. Mistris Hutchinson to have held 29 errors , Pag. 60. but none of them against Infant baptisme . Mr. Baxter himself in the Margin of his book Pag. 232. bids aske them in New England , whether they were not convincing providences against their Antinomian Antiscripturall heresies . Why then doth Mr. Baxter tell his Neigbours of these judgements speaking against the Sects he mentions indefinitely , when it was but against one of them in his own construction , and place his speech where it might be , and is commonly taken , and was alledged upon Mr. Baxters credit in Pulpit , in the Parish in which I taught , as spoken against Antipaedobaptists , but that it is most likely Mr. Baxter in that passage chiefly intended to make Me in particular , and other opposers of Infant-baptisme odious , and the truth we hold , though he did thereby misleade Men , for which the Lord forgive Him . Yet I will adde thus much , that I finde among the 82 errors condemned in New England , in that story the 21 to be this . To be justified by Faith is to be justified by Workes : which how near it is to Mr. Baxters Doctrine in his Aphorisms of justification , Thes. 20. 70. 72 , 73 , 74 , 75 , 76. in this Treatise Pag. 11. Doubtlesse the Gospel takes Faith for our obedience to all Gospell Precepts , which he teacheth in his Aphorismes , Thes. 76. and expounds James 2. 24. of justification before God by works in a proper sense , and those were giving food , or cloathing to a brother , Vers . 16. offering Isaac on the Altar , which is rather a work of the Law then the Gospell , Ver. 21. Rahabs receiving the Messengers and sending them out another way . SECT. 9. Of the Anabaptists evill Lives . MAster Baxter proceeds , Christ hath told you , by their Fruits yee shall know them ; we mis-interpret , when we say he means by Fruit , their fals Doctrine ; that were but idem per idem . Hereticks may seem holy for a little while , but at last all false Doctrines likely end in wicked lives . Where hath there been known a Society of Anabaptists , since the World first knew them that have not proved wicked ? How many of these or Antinomians , &c. have you known , who have not proved palpably guilty of lying , perfidivusnesse , covetousness , malice , contempt of their godly brethren , licentiousness , or seared consciences ? Answ. Interpreters differ about the fruits , Mat. 7. 16. some by Fruits understand evill life , some false doctrine , some both , some adde their want of calling : I for my part think both an evill life and a false Doctrine do discover false Prophets , but chiefly their false Doctrine , and so do Piscator , Pareus , Perkins , &c. because that seemes to be Gods note Deut. 13. 2. And in reason sith a false Prophet is so named from his false Doctrine , the false-hood of his Doctrines best discovers that he is a false Prophet . As for evill life by it self , ( which M. Baxter seems to hold ) it cannot be the note whereby to know a false Prophet as such , both because evill Men may be true Prophets , as Judas for example , who was a true Apostle , yet a Theif , and on the other side Mr. Baxter confesseth Heretikes may seem holy for a little while , and therefore during that time they cannot be known by their evill life : yea , many erroneous Persons have continued in appearance , holy to their end . Mr. Baxter dares say no more but that all false Doctrine likely end in wicked lives . Augustin commends Pelagius Epist. 120. Bertius Arminius ; yea many of those who have bin reputed Heretiques , have been eminent for holinesse in appearance even to their end , and thereby have prevailed . And indeed it is the common Tenent of Protestant Divines , answering Bellarmine and other Papists , who deny Profession of the true Faith to be a note of the true Church , and among other notes make the holinesse of their Teachers one note , that true Faith is a sufficient note of a visible Church and true Teacher , and that holinesse of life is not the note of a true Prophet , or the want of it of a false Prophet . If it were it would follow no true Ministers who are vitious in life , nor to be heard , nor to be owned as Pastors . And therefore Mr. Baxter unadvisedly perhaps in heate , or spleen , directs his Neighbours to know false Prophets by this note , which would if retorted prove Presbyterians , Heretiques as well as Anabaptists . But to say by their false Doctrine yee shall know false Prophets , were idem per idem , the same by the same . Answ . In Mr. Baxters Logick then false Doctrine , and false Prophet are the same . It is true , false Doctrine is the form denominating a false Teacher or false Prophet : but to make the forme denominating , and the subject denominated the same , is to Me false Doctrine in Logick . Are the whitenesse and the thing white , the heate and thing hot , all one ? or doth a Man that knows hot water by heate , cold water by its cold , know idem per idem , the same by the same ? But Mr. Baxter applies his rule generally against Anabaptists , and saith , where hath there been known a Society of Anabaptists , since the World first knew them , that proved not wicked ? Answ . Were this question propounded dubitatively it would the lesse move , but no Man will I think take his interrogation for any other then a most peremptory determination , wherein like a right English Mastive , he flies in the face not of one , or two Men , or one or two Societies of Men , but on all the Societies of Anabaptists since the World first knew them , and asserts them to have proved wicked . An accusation that I should not have dared to make against the Papists themselves . And for it , if there were no other thing , I may boldly say Mr. Baxter hath plaid the Devills part with a witnesse . But you 'l say is it not true ? Answ. Were not Cyprian and his Colleagues , Hemerobaptists in Epiphanius , the Picards who re-baptized , as the Preface to the Bohemian Confession of the year 1535 shewes , Anabaptists ; that is , baptizers againe ? And yet who doubts but they had many Societies who proved not wicked ? But you 'l say they were rebaptists on another ground then the Anabaptists , Mr. Baxter means , who deny Infant-baptism ? Be it so : yet it is a most bold calumny to damne all their societies as in conclusion wicked . But that Mr. Baxter may learne to order his pen better hereafter , he may take notice that besides the probabilities that Berengarius opposed the Baptizing of little ones , notwithstanding what Mr. Marshall alledgeth , it is more then probable by Bernards 204 Epistle , his 66. Sermon on the Canticles , Petrus Cluniacensis his Epistle against Peter de Bruis , and Henricus , Eckbertus Schonaugiensis his Sermon 7. adversus Catharos in the Auctarium of the Biblioth : Patxum Tom. 2. and others , that there were many hundreds of years sithence , a very great number of godly Societies , that did deny Infant-baptisme , and in Gaule and Germany were Baptized after Infant-baptisme . But perhaps Mr. Baxter imagines no Anabaptists ( as he calls them ) till Luthers dayes . There have been many of those Societies in high and low Germany . Will Mr. Baxter , a yong Man that I believe never travailed out of England , fall into such exorbitant censoriousnesse as to condemne them all as in fine proving wicked ? sure I am Alstedius in his sapplement to Chamier de Eccl. l. 2. c. 13. Sect. 3. puts the Anabaptists among those that had the garment of a good life : Cassander in his Epistle to the Duke of Gulick , and Cleve cited by me in my Examen part . 2. Sect. 6. saith , in quibus magna ex parte pii cujusdam animi argumenta cernas . Sundry other writings I have read even of those that have written against them , who either by their ingenuous Confessions of some of them , or their readinesse to except against them for small infirmities , give me occasion to conceive there have been in the Low Countries , and elsewhere godly Societies of them , and not such as in conclusion proved wicked . But perhaps Mr. Baxter pronounceth so of all those in England , that have been called Anabaptists . If so , let him know that there have been in London Churches of those called Anabaptists , and are still , whose Confession of Faith may compare either with Mr. Baxter , or perhaps the Assembly , for soundnesse of Doctrine ; and not a few of whose Teachers and Members have lead a godly life to the end , and whose living members yet hold forth the Faith in a godly life . And this the rather I am induced to conceive not only from mine own knowledge , and the credible testimony of others , but also from their Petition to the Parliament April . 2. 1649. and the Parliaments answer to them , and their late heart-bleedings for Professors abominations in their faithfull generall Epistle Printed for the same man , for whom Mr. Baxters published Bookes have been Printed . But I perceive Mr. Baxter was willing to let his pen have the reynes , and therefore addes ; How many of these , &c. May I not as well aske the parishioners of Kederminster , how many have they known that have proved so palpably guilty of the soule sins he names ? How many Anabaptists or Antinomists they have known , I cannot tell . Mr. Baxter names me for one , and I confesse his parishioners of Kederminster have had meanes to know me from my Cradle , as being borne and bred up , and lived a good part of my life near them : if they know me so palpably guilty of the sins Mr. Baxter speakes of , they shew but little love , in that they rebuke me not , but suffer sin on me , contrary to what Mr. Baxter hath taught them . I would have trod this passage under my foote as dirt , were it not that the Devill by this and such like passages breeds such hatred , and nourisheth such fury in mens brests , that were it not for the mighty over-awing power of God , and the magistrates Justice , they would quickly fall on us to destroy us . I add no more , but the Lord rebuke them . SECT. 10. Of the Anabaptists confident expressions , and weaknesse upon triall , and the dispute at Bewdley , Jan. 1. 1649. YEt Mr. Baxter hath not done with us . They have confident expressions , sayth he , to shake poore ignorant Soules , whom God will have discovered in the day of triall : But when they meet with any that can search out their fallacies , how little have they to say ? you know I have had as much opportunity to try their strength as most : and I never yet met with any in Garison , or Army , that could say any thing which might stagger a solid Man . Answ. For other men I cannot make answer : my own expressions in my Bookes and Sermons have no more confidence then strength of proofe , or answer , as there was occasion . As solid men as Mr. Baxter have met with that which not only hath staggered , but also hath brought them to assent to my Tenet . Me thinks the institution , Mat. 28. 19. the practise of Iohn Baptist , the Apostles , and first Churches , who did Baptize no Infants that can be found , might stagger as solid a man as Mr. Baxter , and it is very likely , Mr. Baxter met with some in Garison or Army that alledged these , or some of these to him . For my part I cannot tell how to construe it any other then a Judgement of God on men that hold so earnestly against Papists , and Prelates , and Presbyterians too , that in Gods Worship humane Inventions are to be left as Will-worship , and yet contend so much for Infant-baptisme so cleerly proved , and so frequently confessed , not only by learned Papists , but also many of the more ingenuous of the Prelatical party , and others , to be onely a Church Tradition . Yea , the Oxford Divines in their late Reasons of the present Judgement of the Vniversity of Oxford about the Solemne Covenant , &c. Approved by generall consent in a full Convocation , June 1. 1647. doe Sect. 4. Pag. 9. say , that without the consentient Judgement and Practise of the Vniversall Church , ( which they are not able to prove ) they should be at a losse , when they are called upon for proofe in the Point of baptizing Infants . But there yet remaines that which it seemes was first in his intention , though last in execution ; to wit , the blazing abroade his Dispute with me Ianua . 1. at Bewdley , of which he speaks thus . You heard in my late publick Dispute at Bewdley Ianuary 1. With Mr. Tombes , who is taken to be the ablest of them in the Land , and one of the most Moderate , how little they can say even in the hardest point of baptisme ; what gross absurdities they are driven to , and how little tender consciencious fear of erring is left among the best . Ans. Mr Baxter not content to be cryed up by his party , hath thought good to glory in his imagined victory , and to crow over me in print , for that which I am assured the most considerate and godly Auditors of that Dispute have thought meet to mourn , as perceiving it to have been his hour of temptation : and God I hope will yet open his eyes , to see how he hath been abused , to become an Instrument to hinder the receiving of Truth , and the Ringleader to a party of men , who neither mind the things of Christ , nor regard Mr Baxter , saving wherein they make use of the keenness of his spirit , and abilities , to oppose the Truth , and to uphold their repute . But to the matter , Mr Baxter reckons me among the Heretiques he had before described , yet with difference . In an Accusation of Heresie , Jerom saith , a man is not to be patient . Mr Baxters Opinions about Justification , Universal Grace in Amyralds middle way avowed by him in this place of his Epistle , his Tenet about the Magistrates being an Officer under Christ as Mediator in his Aphorisms of Iustification , pag. 273. may and are taken to savour more of Heresie then any Tenet I hold ; yea sure , as our Protestant Divines are wont to answer Papists , that the Tenets of the Protestants denying their additions , when otherwise the same Faith is avouched , cannot be justly charged as Heresie ; so neither can I be justly charged with Heresie , who do avouch the Baptism appointed by Christ , and practised by his Apostles , and onely deny that the Consequences from the Old Testament are convincing to prove Infant-Baptism : They that alter Christs way , and introduce another way , from Circumcision , or the Jewish Church-state , as Mr Baxter doth , are more justly chargeable with Heresie . His conceits of me I regard not : His Neighbors of Kederminster might hear how little I did say , but surely they could not hear in that Dispute how little I could say , much less how little Anabaptists so called can say in the hardest point of Baptism : His Neighbors and others may know by this , and my other Writings and Sermon● that I can say more then I said then ; and I know other learned men who can say more in the point then disputed , though I then said enough in answer to Mr Baxters Arguments then produced , notwithstanding my care to speak no more then was necessary , and my natural hesitancy in answering an Argument at the first hearing . And how ever the business was packed , to cry up a Baxter , as if they had been a company of Boys at a game , yet the whole Auditory might know , and many did , that Mr Baxter gave no sufficient Answer to that which I alledged , That no good Argument could be drawn from the Infants of the lews visible Church membership to our Infants visible Church-membership , because the visible Church of the Iews was the whole Nation brought into Covenant together by Abraham and Moses without previous instruction ; but the Christian visible Church had another state and constitution , being gathered by Apostles and other Preachers , by teaching them the Gospel , and thereby making them Disciples , some in one Country , City , Family , some in another ; no one Country , or City , or Tribe together , but so many of all as the Lord vouchsafed to call by his Word and Spirit . Which was enough to answer the main Argument Mr Baxter brought from Deut. 29. 10 , 11 , 12. Rom. 11. 19 , 20. The grossest of absurdities he conceived I was driven to , I take it was that I conceived [ thou ] Deut. 29. 12. not to comprehend little ones , of which I have given account above : What other gross absurdities I was driven to , when Mr Baxter will shew them , I shall then make an Answer : He neither did charge me with any such gross absurdities , nor could drive me to any , when he and I had a whole Afternoons Conference at Kederminster in his Chamber with him alone , Ianua . 25. after that he knew my Answers to his Arguments , delivered in a Sermon at Bewdly Chappel , Ianua . 20. And for his last censure , as if there were little tender conscientious fear of erring left in me , it shews a very great height of pride in him , to take on him to judg my spirit , and uncharitableness or malignity towards me , who would thus censure me , when if he had any spark of charity to me , he might have perceived a very great and consciencious fear of erring in me , who , afore I did publish any thing , did first try what the London Ministers could say for Infant Baptism , in six days private dispute , and after applyed my self to a Committee of the Assembly , and particularly to Mr Marshal , and waited nineteen moneths afore I published my Writings about Infants Baptism , as may be seen in my Examen and Apology , not unknown to Mr Baxter : Yea , my proceedings with Mr Baxter shewed the same fear of erring , having , afore I would adventure to preach at Bewdly , first endevored to get his Animadversions in writing on some part of my Review , not yet printed , which he would not yeeld : and after that many moneths endeavored to get his Arguments in writing , that my Neighbors and my self might be satisfied , and I desist from preaching what I intended , or else might go more surely to work in asserting my Tenet . But it seems Mr Baxter was resolved to lie close , till he could by provocations draw me to a publique Dispute , presuming he should carry the fame of a victory , which would serve his and the rest of his parties turn , to lessen my esteem , and to hold the people in the superstition of Infant-Baptism . And for himself , I leave it to his own Conscience and understanding men to judge , how little conscientions feare , of erring he had , who would not , though so often requested , communicate his Arguments in Writing to me , to be examined afore he vented them so openly ; and how little Brotherly care he had to keepe me from error , by giving me his Arguments to stay me from Preaching that which his Speeches provoked me to , and he knew as I am assured that I did intend . To conclude I am enforced to expresse it as a grievance , that I have neither found that love of Truth , Candor , nor love to me , either before , or in the Dispute , or since , which I expected in Mr. Baxter , and which encouraged me to yeeld to the Dispute mentioned by him . As for the two flings he hath at me in the sixth direction of his Epistle , where he mentions some that say , no truth must be concealed for Peace , and saith , they have usually as little of the one as the other , I had hoped I had satisfied Mr. Baxter in a Letter , by acquainting him with what limitation I meant , if not expressed my position thereof , which if he had been willing to deale fairely with me , he should have mentioned . As for Mr. Baxters wayes , how far they are from Truth or Peace , may easily be discerned , by his managing the business between him and me : My friendly and ready coming to him , Ianua . 25. shewed my desire of both . The other is in those words , Temptations are now come neer your doors , which I imagine he spake because of my Vicinity to them : His Neighbors I think will bear me witness I taught them many Truths when they did hear me , which formerly was very frequent , and I still tender their good so far , as to be unwilling to mislead them , how ever they may think of me by Mr Baxters descriptions of me . And were I fit to give them Counsel , I would warn them to take heed of the Temptations that are indeed now come neer their doors , in the high esteem they have of Mr Baxter , which may cause them to drink in his Errors , of which I have said before he seems to me not to be free ; and others in all parts , as his own words in a Letter to me do import , do charge him with more largely then I do . Other things in his Treatise I let them pass : But for the point in dispute between him and me , if he add any thing more , as I am told he intends , if the Lord assist I shall examine it when I have it in writing : and in the mean time do wish him mentem sanam in corpore sano . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A94730e-1000 Mr. Baxter in the Se● - everlasting rest pag. 224. Hee sent out Ministers and not Magistrats to bring in the world . And pag. 3 he saith , the Nation of the Jewes , and all proselyted Gentiles were holy before Mr Baxter himself in this his Book of the Saints everlasting rest , Part. 2. ch. 6. Sect. 1. p. 2●2 expresseth Christs charge to his Apostles thus go , Preach and make me Disciple of all Nations . See Field of the Church 3. Book Ch. 52. Morton Apol. Cath part . 1. l. 2. c. 6. Alsted supplem . Cham. de Eccles. l. 2. c. 13 Sect 3. Vide Dr Chaloners Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam . Davenant Exhort . to Peace .