An apology or plea for the Two treatises, and appendix to them concerning infant-baptisme; published Decemb. 15. 1645. Against the unjust charges, complaints, and censures of Doctor Nathanael Homes, Mr Iohn Geree, Mr Stephen Marshall, Mr John Ley, and Mr William Hussey; together with a postscript by way of reply to Mr Blakes answer to Mr Tombes his letter, and Mr Edmund Calamy, and Mr Richard Vines preface to it. Wherein the principall heads of the dispute concerning infant-baptism are handled, and the insufficiency of the writings opposed to the two treatises manifested. / By Iohn Tombes, B.D. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. 1646 Approx. 463 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 85 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2009-03 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A94733 Wing T1801 Thomason E352_1 ESTC R201072 99861639 99861639 113779 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A94733) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 113779) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 57:E352[1]) An apology or plea for the Two treatises, and appendix to them concerning infant-baptisme; published Decemb. 15. 1645. Against the unjust charges, complaints, and censures of Doctor Nathanael Homes, Mr Iohn Geree, Mr Stephen Marshall, Mr John Ley, and Mr William Hussey; together with a postscript by way of reply to Mr Blakes answer to Mr Tombes his letter, and Mr Edmund Calamy, and Mr Richard Vines preface to it. Wherein the principall heads of the dispute concerning infant-baptism are handled, and the insufficiency of the writings opposed to the two treatises manifested. / By Iohn Tombes, B.D. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. [8], 157, [3] p. Printed for Giles Calvert, at the Black-Spread-Eagle at the west end of Pauls., London, : 1646. A defense of his: Two treatises and an appendix to them concerning infant-baptisme. License to print on verso of first leaf. The last leaf is blank. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Aug: 28th". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. 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Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Homes, Nathanael, 1599-1678. Geree, John, 1601?-1649. Marshall, Stephen, 1594?-1655. Ley, John, 1583-1662 -- Early works to 1800. Hussey, William, -- minister of Chiselhurst. Blake, Thomas, 1597?-1657. Calamy, Edmund, 1600-1666. Vines, Richard, 1600?-1656. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. -- Two treatises and an appendix to them concerning infant-baptisme. Infant baptism -- Early works to 1800. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2008-07 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2008-07 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion HAving perused this milde Apology , I conceive that the ingenuity , learning and piety therein contained deserve the Presse . Iohn Bachiler . An Apology OR PLEA FOR THE TWO TREATISES , AND Appendix to them concerning INFANT-BAPTISME ; Published Decemb. 15. 1645. Against the unjust charges , complaints , and censures of Doctor Nathanael Homes , Mr Iohn Geree , Mr Stephen Marshall , Mr John Ley , and Mr William Hussey ; together with a Postscript by way of reply to Mr Blakes answer to Mr Tombes his letter , and Mr Edmund Calamy , and Mr Richard Vines Preface to it . Wherein the principall heads of the Dispute concerning Infant-Baptism are handled , and the insufficiency of the writings opposed to the two Treatises manifested . By IOHN TOMBES , B. D. GAL. 4. 16. Am I therefore become your enemy , because I tell you the truth ? LONDON , Printed for Giles Calvert , at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS . 1646. To the right worshipfull my much honoured Auditors , members of the Honourable , House of COMMONS , and Societies of the Temple . AFter other meanes duly but without successe tried , for the publique good , to wit the vindicating of truth , and consequently for the preventing of the establishment of an errour and corruption of the most solemn sacred rite of the Christian profession , and the oppression of them that oppose it , I consented to the publishing of two treatises in December last about Infant-baptisme . It seemed good to sundry persons of note presently to cry downe my assertions , and to load me with unjust accusations , which I take to be rather a baffeling of the Author , then an answering of his writing . Yet the truth hath gotten so much ground ( however some eminent men pretend otherwise ) that the Doctrine of the Directory is disavowed by two of the most eminent of my Antagonists , as is shewed § 9. pag. 40. 41. 42. 43. 44. of this Apology , the chiefe argument of my prime Antagonist , is proved to be either nugatory or fallacious , § . 10. pag. 44. 45 46. 47. 48. of this Apology , sundry confessions are drawne from my Antagonists , which in my judgement , and I thinke in the judgement of any that knowes what belongs to disputes , do yeeld the cause , as those that I mention § . 18. pag 97. 98. 100. 101. 102. & § . 5. page 28. of this Apology . And as for the accusations against my selfe , I should sleight them , were it not they had a great influence upon the cause , and therefore have been necessitated to vindicate my selfe ; and therewith the truth in some measure by this Apology . The great prejudice against me in Point of antiquity , I have also in this Apology endeavoured to dispell , specially that from the testimony of Augustin , Serm. 10. de verbis Apostoli , tom . 10. which upon examination I find not to be an historicall narration from good records , but a meer hyperbolicall speech , Rhetorically asserting a thing by conjecture from present use in a Sermon to the people , § . 15. pag. 81. 82. 83. 84. of this Apology . And for the testimony of Tertullian concerning federall holinesse , it is shewed to be impertinent , § . 15. pag. 84. 85. That the present Synod or reformed Churches are against me should be no more prejudice against me , then it is against the Synod , and reformed Churches that they oppose the Doctrine of Infant-baptisme , as it was taught by Cyprian , and his councill of 66. Bishops , Augustin , and many Synods , and Churches all along till the fifteenth century , and the Augustan confession art 9. The danger of troubles upon a reformation of this corruption should make men wary how they introduce them ; I thinke they that are bound by Covenant to reforme , yet are not bound to do it with procipitation , and without prudence . But however men must take heed how they establish an errour and corruption by a Law , and oppresse men for holding a truth , lest they kicke against the Pricke . As for my owne particular , the hard dealing I have fo●nd doth not alienate me from my brethren , nor I hope shall make a schism between us ; if it must happen , my indeavour is , that it may be necessary , not voluntary on my part . What hath happened I looke upon it , however meant by men , yet as ordered by God for good , to wit the clearing of the truth , the trying and humbling of my selfe . That I suffer in the repute of men , or my outward peace moves me not . It 's not to be expected children should be born without travail , nor truth without suffering ; yet to leave so intelligent an Auditory , with so much advantage of the fruite of my labours , is no small grievance . However I have chosen you for depositaries , in whose hands I may leave this Apology ; that you may not be strangers to this businesse , nor forget him who is Your reall servant in the things of Christ , JOHN TOMBES . From my study at the Temple in London , August 20. 1646. The Contents of the Apology . PAg. 1. Sect. 1. Of the occasion of writing this Apology . Pag. 2. Sect. 2. Of the intention of the Author upon that occasion . Sect. 3. Of the necessity and seasonablenesse of publishing the two treatises about Infant-baptisme . Pag. 5. Sect. 4. Of freedome from publishing the two treatises contrary to engagement , with a Declaration of the Authors proceedings therein . Pag. 16. Sect. 5. Of the clearing the Author of the two treatises from scornfulnesse in writing them , of my censure of Mr The : Goodwins handling this point , and of all writers about Coloss . 2. 12. Pag. ●8 . Of the exposition I give of Colos . 2. 12. confessed to be right by Mr Marshall himselfe . Pag. 30. Sect. 6. Of the clearing the Author of the Examen from either justifying the Anabaptists in Germany , or condemning the godly and grave nonconformists in England . Pag. 36. Sect. 7. Of the clearing of the Author of the two treatises from vaunting and challenging in the composing and publishing the treatises . Pag. 39. Sect. 8. Of the clearing of the Authour of the two treatises from sophistry in them , whereby occasion is taken to vindicate the Treatises in many of the chiefe things contained in them . Pag. 40. Sect. 9. Of the meaning of M. Marshals second conclusion , the words in the Directory [ the promise is made to beleevers and their seed ] and the doctrine therein delivered , disavowed by M Marshal and M. Geree . P. 44. Sect. 10. Of the distinction of inward & outward covenant , & that it can stand M. M. in no stead , but to shew his triflting & equivocating in his first argument ▪ and two first conclusions , and of master Marshals mistake of my opinion . Page 49. sect . 10. Of master Marshals false and most unjust charge that I carry a Socini●● plot through my Examen and Exerutation Pag. 53. Sect. 12. Of Mr Marshals unjust charge of my itching after new opinions , and particularly about rebaptization and receiving the Lords Supper afore baptisme . Page 55. Sect. 13 Of alleaging authors against their mind , particularly master Daniel Rogers master Ball , Chamier , Ar●tiu , and Beza . Pag. 60. Sect. 14. Of master Marshals unjust charging Anabaptists with a bloody sentence , condemning all the infants of beleevers , as having nothing to doe with the covenant of Grace , his imputing to me as if I held that they all belong actually to 〈◊〉 kingdom of the devill , no more promise for them , then for children of Turks , their actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the devill . Pag. 67. A large disqui●ition of Rom 11. 17. &c. wherein is shewed that the ingraffing there is into the invisible Church by election and giving faith , and that it proves not Infant-baptisme . Pag. 78. Sect. 15. Of master marshals unjust charge against me as darkning his argument , and casting filth in the face of the Assembly . Pag. 80. Sect. 16. Of master Marshals untrue charge against me , as if I rested on Grotius in setting down the tenent of Antiquiry upon occasion of which the tenent of Antiquity is again examined ; my judgement of their doctrine vindicated : master Marshals new allegations answered , and my diligence to find out their tenets manifested . Pag 91. Sect. 17. Of my opinion about excommunication , Church-government , the admission unto all ordinances , my former conformity alleaged to allenate mens minds from me and my writings . Pag. 9. Sect. 18. Of the vanity of master Leyes vaunt concerning the deadly wound given to my cause , and the contrary demonstrated by a briefe going through the principall points about this argument , as they have hitherto been disputed . As about Acts 2. 39. Rom. 11. 16. Colos . 2. 12. Mat. 28. 19. Acts 16. 15. Mat. 19 14. &c. Pag. 97. Baptisme and the rite of eating bread and drinking wine at the passeover , though old rites among the Iewes , yet used to another end and after another rule by christians . Pag. 98. The command confessed to be the formall reason of circumcision by mr marshall . Circumcision a priviledge proper to the Jewish Church-state . Pag. 99. No command about the Jewes Sacraments now in force . Pag. 100. Infants not disciples as Mat. 28. 19 is meant . Baptizing housholds inferres not infant-baptisme . Pag. 101. We have no evidence for judgement of charity concerning infants , nor is a judgment of charity to be our rule in administring baptisme . Pag. 102. Sect. 19. Of master Hussey his pretended satisfactory answer to my Exercitation . Pag. 106. Sect. 20 The Epilogue of this Apology concerning the reason of the enlargeing of it , the Authours present estate and future intentions . The Contents of the Postscript . PAge 109. Sect. 1. The occasion of this Postscript . ● . Sect. 2. Of M. Calamy , and Mr. V●nes . their wrong judgement of the dispute , mast . Blakes book and my discussing the point . P. 111. sect . 3. Of master Blakes charge of defect of charity , and some other imputations . Pag. 112. sect . 4. They that deny infant-baptisme need not teach that infants perish . Pag 113. sect 5. Of my censure of master Blakes producing Gal. 4 29. for the birth-priviledge Pag. 114. sect . 6. Of the necessity of my taking p●ins in my Examen to find out the meaning of master Marshals second conclusion by reason of the ambiguity of his expressions . Pag. 120. sect . 7. Of the Corinthians doubt , 1 Cor. 7. 12. 13. 14. Pag. 121. sect . 8. 1 Cor. 7. 14. is not meant of instrumental sanctification , & federal holines . P. 125. sect . 9. Of mast . Blakes misallegation of Gal. 2. 15. which was the text he chose for his birth-priviledge . Pag. 128. sect . 10. That 1 Pet. 2. 9. is meant of the Church invisible . Pag. 130. sect . 11. Of precedents for womens receiving the Lords supper . P. 131. sect . 12. To say that God hath promised to be the God of every beleever and his naturall seed is a new Gospell . P. 132. sect . 13. Of master Rutherfurds and M. Blakes opinion about holinesse of a chosen nation , and mediate Ancestours profession intitling to infantbaptisme , and the Independents advantage in this point . Pag. 134. sect . 14. Of the word [ nations ] matth . 2● . 19. how to be taken . Pag. 135. sect . 15. of master Ruthersfurds and master Blakes , and mine opinion concerning the rule to know who are baptizable . Pag. 138. sect . 16. About two suppositions a●criby me to master marshall and master Blake in my Examen , page 130. Pag. 140. sect . 17. About arguments draw●● from Analogy in positive rites and their invalidity , and the insufficiency of master Blakes rules . Pag. 145. sect . 28. That Master Blake hath not proved that infants are disciples from Matth. 18. 5. nor pertinently alleaged , Isai . 49 , 2● . Pag. 147. sect . 19. Of baptizing ●ous●olds and 〈◊〉 censure of Mr Blakes speech concerning it . Pag. 149. sect . 20. About Matth. 19 14. that by the kingdome of heaven is meant the kingdome of glory . Pag. 151. sect . 21. That God seales not to every person that is rightly , baptized , that his covenant of grace belongs only to the elect , that his covenant is effectuall , and leaves it not to mans liberty to include or exclude himselfe . Pag. 155. sect 22. Of Mr Blakes unjust crimination of 〈◊〉 as putting the children of beleevers out of the covenant of Grace , and the Epilogue of this Postscript . An Apology for the two Treatises , and Appendix to them concerning Infant-Baptisme , against the unjust Charges , Complaints and Censures of D. Nathanael Homes , M. John Geree , and M. Steven Marshall , and M. John Ley. DEcember 15 , 164● . were published with my consent two Treatises , and an Appendix to them concerning Infant-Baptisme . The writing that could not in nineteene moneths before obtaine a few lines , hath now gained foure answers in foure moneths . In January came forth : Treatise of one Thomas Bakewell , in which the Title pretends a briefe answer to my twelve doubtfull Arguments ( as he stiles them ) against Infant-baptism in my Exercitation about it . This Treatise I think hath honour enough done it that it is named . If any man shew me any thing worth the answering in it , it may in time gain a reply , otherwise for me it may take it's rest . The next moneth was published Doctor Homes his Vindication of baptizing Beleevers Infants in some animadversions on my Exercitation and examen . The next moneth I received from Master Iohn Geree his vindic●ae paedobaptisms in a full answer ( as is asserted ) to my twelve Arguments in my exercitation , and whatsoever is rationall or materiall in my Answer to Master Marshals Sermon . The next moneth I received Master Stephen Marshall his defence of Infant-baptisme in answer to my two Treatises and Appendix , in which also I am informed of two peices at least from New-England in which I am concerned . And unto all , or some of these , Master Iohn Ley in his Epistle to Master Iohn Sal●marsh addes his acclamation in these words . There be divers● Davids who are ready for a single encounter with that braving Goliah , and some have given his Cause such a wound already , as ( though he may play the Montebanke with it and skin it over ) will never be cured at the bottom . Thus farre they have spoken : I presume they will allow me now liberty to speake for my selfe , and for the truth . My Cause ( as Master Ley cals it ) containes either the manner , or the matter of my Treatises . The defence of the matter of them is the chiefest thing , and is first in my intention . But the clearing of my selfe from some complaints or charges in the manner of handling the whole businesse , is so necessary for the removing of prejudices , which would prevent reading and entertaining my writings , and do undermine my present station , that I am constrained , first to plead for my selfe , before I engage further in the Controversie : wherefore I shall answer those charges by themselves apart that so the main question may be discussed by it selfe . First , Doctor Homes in his Epistle to the Reader hath these words . Meane while I could not but lament the untimely birth of Master T. his Exercitation , and his unnecessary falling intravell with it , after at least sixe able Brethren , and above so many daies by nervous disputation had given him so much Cause to doubt of his Ten●t , or at least a while to suspend it . And this hath been by sundry persons objected to me , that the publishing my Booke was extreamly unseasonable . Two reasons are implyed in Doctor Homes his words to insinuate that it was untimely , because it was unnecessary . Secondly , because it was after such a nervous disputation as he mentions . To that of needlesnesse I answer . If it were necessary to maintaine Truth though generally opposed , when few or none were willing to appeare for it , and speciall providence called me out to do it , if it were necessary to endeavour the preventing of unjust persecution for holding a Truth , to which in Sermons and other waies Law-makers , and Magistrates were every where instigated , if it were necessary when the people of God were perplexed about a poynt of conscience that pertaines to their continuall practice , and disputation in publike was declined , to endeavour the bringing of Truth to light , if it were necessary for a man to keep the solemne Covenant he hath by oath bound himselfe to , though it were to his great hazzard , if it were necessary in a time of Reformation for a Minister of the Gospell to do what belonged to him to further it , if it be necessary for a Minister of the Gospell to provide for the giving of his account at the day of Jesus Christ , then it was necessary for me to fall in travell with my Exercitation and examen ; for all these ends and ties concurred in the writing and publishing of my Treatises . And therefore I am assured that what I did was so necessary , that had I not done what I did , I should neither have been faithfull to Christ , nor to his people , nor to the State , nor to my own soule . I confesse my Book was untimely published in reference to my own preferment , and outward peace . I saw few or none regarded for clearing of Truth : but popular Orators , such as relate to great men , or are usefull to uphold a Party , are the men esteemed . I could not expect any other then opposition to my opinion , being against such a stream of men . But I feared that of our Lord Christ , He that is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinfull Generation , of him shall the Son of man be ashamed when he shall come in his glory with his holy Angels . How nervous the disputation he mentions was , I suppose the Doctor knowes not but by report , forasmuch as I never perceived him present at it . The strength , and substance of all the Arguments , as well as my memory ( who was then the respondent ) could beare them away , was faithfully digested by me in my Exercitation , which was composed not long after in part upon occasion of that disputation . In which disputation I was so farre from finding cause to doubt of my Tenet , that I professe sincerely both that disputation , and the severall Answers of my learned Antagonists , and reverend brethren Doctor Homes , and Master Geree , and Master Marshall have giuen me lesse cause to doubt of my Tenet , especially sith Master Marshall Pag. 116. of his Defence saies , it was never asserted by him , That the C●venant of saving Grace is made to Beleevers and their naturall seed , and Pag. 92. The command is the cause of the existence of the duty , but the Covenant of Grace is the motive to it , and Pag. 182. he grants , that the formall reason ( which is the adequate reason ) of the Iewes being Circumcised was the command of God , the Covenant of Grace , or their Church-state he only makes the motive to it , and the thing it related to : which with many more concessions in his Defence , and the others Answers I doubt not , but if the Lord vouchi●ase me time and liberty to improve to the overthrow of his first and maine Argument , and the inference he makes from the Texts of Scripture he brings to confirme it , and consequently his whole Cause , as he himselfe confesseth in his Sermon . Pag. 26. And for giving me cause to suspend my 〈◊〉 ; if he mean by suspension , stifling my doubts in mine own bosome , and never imparting them to learned men for resolution , it had been in my apprehension extreame imprudence , if not stupidity , to have let slip the opportunity of making known the reasons of my doubts in this juncture of time , in which by Covenant the State was engaged to settle worship , Catechizing , confession of faith , discipline according to Gods Word , to each of which this point is of no small moment : if he meane by suspending my Tenet the not printing my writings , neither am I justly to be blamed therein considering how long I waited and yet never received any resolution , and after I say not , a moneth only , but ten moneths at least waiting for an answer about my motion to Master Marshall in the Epilogue of my Examen , it was plainly rejected . And though Master Marshall excuseth himselfe by relating that I declared to him , that I could , and that I intimated to him I would keep the opinion private to my selfe ( in which either his memory or his apprehension were defective ) and therefore took no further thought of examining my Treatises , yet I suppose it concerned Master Marshall for many reasons to have contrived some course for my satisfaction , or the abatement of height of pride , and confidence which the perturbation of his mind , rather then the true intelligence of my spirit in that businesse made him imagine in my writings . As for the unseasonablenesse in politicke respects ( though I do not take upon me in●ight therein ) yet so farre as my reason is able to discerne , it could never have come more seasonably , to have a matter of such moment discussed , while Reformation , and Lawes confirming it were yet in fieri , all men knowing , that it is too late to speake , when the Legislative power hath fully enacted a Law. And whereas Master Marshall saies , he verily thought I would have 〈◊〉 q●iet by down , preached , kept my opinion to my self , and not have any further appeared ( especially at this time ) to encrease the flame of 〈…〉 , I answer . For my quiet sitting down , and preaching Christ , I can boldly and cheerefully appeale to my Auditors of these Honourable Societies whereof not a few are eminent persons in the Honourable house of Commons . For my app●●ring at this time I have given reasons , which I suppose conscientious men will conceive weighty , yea and preponderating 〈◊〉 divisions that may happen if that of Augustine be true , 〈…〉 . Nor do I know that any such divisions or confusions have happened by reason of my Te●●ises , or are likely to happen , but rather the contrary . And if any divisions be now about that opinion they were afore my Treatises were published , and if they encrease they are rather to be imputed to the violence of those Preachers , who instigate the Magistrate to ex●●pate such as Heretickes , who hold the opinion , then to me , who by practice and profession do hold Communion with them , that differ from me , and abhorse separation from my 〈…〉 this regard . Nor do I doubt but that if it were not for the rigous of many Preachers , a way might be found for Reformation in this matter without such a flame of division and confusion , as Master Marshall apprehends . But I wish that as in Germany the rigidnesse of some men was the destruction of the Protestants there , so it happen not in like manner in England . Another objection I meet with is , that I have printed my Treatises contrary to the int●mation , or ( as some alleage ) promise I made to Master Marshall : which Master Marshall writing to me thus expresseth ▪ Pag. 1 , 2. of his Defence . But when after some friendly conference with you , you declared to me , that if you might enjoy liberty to exercise your Minist●ry in some place , where you should not be put upon the practice of baptizing of Infants , you could ( yea and intimated to 〈◊〉 that you would ) keep this opinion privat● to your selfe , provided only , that of any should preach in your pulpit for the baptizing of them , you should take your selfe bound in the same place to preach against it ; otherwise m●ns preaching or printing abroad should be no provocation to you . And Pag. 244. Master Marshall faith thus . For even to New England have some sent your writings , and sufficiently in them showed your scorne of Master Thomas Goodwin , Master Vines and my selfe , as our friends do from thence write unto us . That I may clearely and fully answer this charge , and the former , and state my selfe , and proceedings right in the thoughts of men , I think it necessary to make this following Declaration . It hapned that in the yeare 1627. reading the Catechisme Lecture at Magdalen Hall in Oxford , and having occasion in one of my Lectures to examine whether there be such a priviledge to the children of Beleevers , that they should be accounted to belong to the Covenant , and Church of God , I found not sufficient ground either from Gen. 17. 7. or from the institution of Circumcision for the affirmative in that question . The substance of my reasons then against the Argument drawn from Circumcision to baptisme , I have compacted in that short discourse , which is part . 2 , § . 8. Pag. 29. of my Examen , and begins at those words , I dare not assent &c. Which being the chiefe thing I stand upon . I wonder Master Marshall so lightly passeth over calling it a tedious discourse , altering my words , and saying nothing to the reason I bring . Wherefore then , and since I declined the urging of those reasons for it , and wholly rested on 1 Cor. 7. 14. conceiving that those words [ but now are they holy ] did import that priviledge to the children of a Beleeving Parent . And accordingly practised baptizing of Infants upon the warrant of that Text only , as I often told my Auditors at Lemster in Hereford-shire , which some now about the City can witnesse . It happened after I was necessitated to leave my place through the violence of the Kings Party , after much wandring up and down with much danger to me and mine I came to the City of Bristoll , and there preached for halfe a yeare , in which time in dispute with an Antipaedobaptist , I urged that Text 1 Cor. 7. 14. which he answered with so much evidence , as that although I did not fully assent unto him , yet as one that durst not oppose Truth who ever brought it , I resolved with my selfe to consider that matter more full , and to that end being enfeebled with labour in preaching , and griefe by reason of the publike losses at that time , and advised by my Physitian to remove out of Bristoll , understanding the Assembly was to sit in Iuly 1643. I resolved to adventure a journey to London through Wiltshire , to conferre with my Brethren of the Assembly , and by the advantage of Books in London to make further search into that point . It pleased God to stop my journey then by that sad , and unexpected overthrow neere Devizes , which necessitated me to get away from Bristoll by Sea into Pembrokeshire . While I was there I chanced to meet with Vessius his theses de poedobaptismo , and therin reading Cyprians and others of the Ancients Testimonies , I suspected that in point of antiquity the matter was not so cleare as I had taken it , but weighing those passages , I conceived that the Ancients held only baptizing of Infants in the case of supposed necessity , conceiving that by baptisme Grace was given , and that all are to be saved from perishing and after in processe of time it became ordinary . Wherefore I resolved if ever I came to London , to search further into those two points of the meaning of 1 Cor. 7. 14. and the History of Paedobaptisme , and accordingly God having brought my wife and children with much difficulty to me after a second plunder , and by remarkable providence turning the wind against the Ships when they went without us bringing us out of Pembrokshire the day before it was appointed by the Kings Forces to send to apprehend me , making the wind serve for a speedy voyage in foure dayes from Milford Haven to the Downes , presently upon the receiving us into the Ship ( which I hope I shall ever remember to the praise of our God ) being come to London September 22. 1643. I applied my selfe to enquire into the points forenamed . It happened that whereas I had this prejudice against the interpreting of the holinesse of the children 1 Cor. 7. 14. of Legitimation that no learned Protestant had so expounded it , meeting with 〈◊〉 his notes not long before printed at Cambridge , I found him of that opinion , and after him Musculus and Melancthon ; and finding that the Sanctification in the forepart of the verse , must be understood of lawfull copulation , expressed by Beza thus , Fidelis uxor potest cum infideli marito bona conscientia consuescere , which sense only was sutable to the case resolved by the Apostle whether they might still continue together , I observed that the Apostle speaking of the unbeleeving party mentions his unbeliefe , but when he mentions the Beleever , expresseth only the relation of husband and wife , and that the reason of the Apostle to prove their lawfull copulation is an Argument ab absurdo and including this proposition . All those children whereof one of the parents is not sanctified to the other by lawfull cepulaetion are ●nclea●e , which being expounded of federall uncleanesse were false , and is only true of bastardy , I concluded , that it was the meaning of the Apostle , and could be no other . Whereupon when in a meeting of Ministers in the City of London , the question was propounded what Scripture there was for Infant-baptisme , I told my Breth●●n plainly , that I doubted there was none . This occasioned the Dispute Doctor Homes speakes of which happened about January 1643. Concerning which though some gave out I was satisfied by it , others that I was so convinced , that I had nothing to say , yet the truth is , this was all the ground of those reports , that having at first stood upon it that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of such Matth. 19. 14. ] was meant only of such like , it being urged that then it could not be a reason , why they should suffer those children to be brought to Christ , I yeelded that it was to be expounded as Beza expounded it , horum & similium ut supra , as I expresse in my Exercitation , and further granted that if when Christ saith [ of these is the Kingdom of God ] he meant of their present state of regeneration they might be baptized , but that our Saviour meant it of their present state I did not grant : and I further yeelded that I should not sticke at the baptisme of an Infant concerning whom I should be certified from God that it was actually regenerate , and beleeving , meaning no more but this , that such a certificate would warrant me in such a case to baptize , it being all one with a profession of faith , as signes made by a dumbe person that he was a Christian would warrant his baptisme . This concession being made meerely upon a supposition of an extraordinary revelation , first Ma●ter B●●ke , and after him Master Marshall have often urged , though they have been often tould , that a common rule cannot be drawn from an extraordinary case . Not long after that Conference , my most loving and reverend Father in law Master Henry Scudder fearing the event of this matter , after some writing that past betweene us , advised me to draw up the reasons of my doubts , and he undertook to present them to the Committee chosen ( as I conceived it ) to give satisfaction about that point , which I conceived might well be by the leave of the Parliament , as the appointing the Assembly to give satisfaction about some doubts in taking the Covenant . And if the Committee as a Committe could not do it ( which I suppose they might have done by communicating what after debate was prepared for the Assembly , which I presume was , certainly it should have been accurately done with examination of what could be objected , afore those Articles in the Directory about this matter were passed ) yet particular members might have done somewhat to satisfie me , who would have been then , and shall be yet satisfied with one convincing argument , that it was Christs appointment , that the Infants of Beleevers , because they are borne of Beleever are to be baptized . According to the advise given in a short space , I first drew up the nine first Arguments in my Exercitation , which were delivered as I relate in my Examen in February and March 1643. and after in Iuly following , the other three . Which I said in my Examen were delivered to Master Tuckney , but Master Marshall tels me he doth deny it , yet I conceive my Father Scudder told me so , who I am sure would speake truth , and when I read that to him he did not correct me in it , and Master Thomas Goodwin still saies he had them after Master Tuckney had perused them . Besides these Papers , that satisfaction might more compendiously be given me at the motion of my reverend Father in law , I set down in one page of a Paper in quarto , the maine ground of my doubt , and delivered it to him , whether he communicated it to any else I know not : my end was that satisfaction to me might more easily be procured . This short thing I after put in my Examen , Part. 2. § . 8. as I said above , which Master Marshall calls a tedious discourse , though it containes lesse then forty lines , and if it had been well answered , might have eased Master Marshall of the rest of his labour . Now the Papers before named , I perceived were tossed up and down from one to another , and it seemes Master Edwards the Controversie Lecturer at Christ-Church got them , and picking out some passages , but concealing others that would have cleared them under pretence of refuting them , with the writing of another which he joyned with mine , meerly abused me in the Pulpit at Christ-Church : which I immediately charged him with after his Sermon in the Vestry , and he only excused it by telling me he named me not , though there were sundry Ministers there that knew he meant me . But this it seemes is like Master Edwards his justice to other men . In this time I attended Master Thomas Goodwins Lectures about that Argument , had the patience to heare Master Edwards his discourse at Christ Church , and read many Treatises and Sermons , in many of which I found rather invectives than arguments . It happened that the Parishioners of Fanchurch became disaffected to me , and refused to heare me , though I medled not at all with that matter in the Pulpit , and I perceived my maintenance was likely to be withdrawn at the end of the yeare . Hereupon one of the Assembly my loving friend , understanding that the Honourable Societies of the Temples wanted a Preacher , sollicited the bringing of me thither . But the matter was by the Honourable House of Commons referred to the Assembly , who chose a Committee to nominate a Preacher for them , of which Committee Master Marshall was one , by whom I was rejected . Presently after which rejection , having occasion of businesse in the behalfe of some godly Pembrokeshire Ministers , with that worthy Gentleman Master Iohn W●i●e Chaire-man of the Committee for plundered Ministers , he would needs argue with me about that point of Infant-baptisme , and after some dispute , he desired to have my answer to his argument in writing . Which occasion I tooke to lay open my condition to him in a Letter , which begot no other fruit but a little Treatise intituled , Infants Baptisme proved lawfull by Scripture . Shortly after in August 1644. I met with Master Marshal's Sermon , and finding the vehemency of his spirit against Antipaedobaptists , and having had experience both of his , and Master Whites inflexiblenesse by my former writings , and seeing no likelihood of imploiment and maintenance for me and mine , except I would gather a separated Church , which I durst not do ▪ as not knowing how to justifie such a practice , I resolved to make a full answer to Master Marshals Sermon , and finished it November 11. and having with much difficulty transcribed one Copy , and gotten another written for me , I sent my own to Master Marshall , who received it December 9 1644. About a fortnight after Master Marshall sent me word , that he would find a time to speake with me : I sent him word , that for the returning answer to my writing , I would not straiten him ; but forasmuch as by his rejecting me I missed being nominated to the Temple , and I was then brought to great straights , I requested that he would declare as occasion should offer it selfe , whether he held me fit for the Ministery or not , notwithstanding my dissent from him in that point . His answer was , he desired to know first whether I would keep my opinion to my selfe . I returned this answer in writing by my Father Scudder . I request you to returne this answer to Master Marshall , that whereas I requested him to declare whether he thought me fit for the Ministery or not , notwithstanding my dissent abo●t Poedobaptism , and he demands of me a promise of silence in that point , I conceive he is bound by the rules of justice , mercy , and prudence to do it without requiring that condition , and that he hath no reason to be jealous of me considering my carriage in this matter . Neverthelesse when I shall understand what promise he would have from me , and what is intended to be done by him for the discussing the point , and clearing of Truth , to which I ought not be wanting , and what advantage I may have by his agency for my imployment and maintenance , I shall give him a punctuall answer , and am resolved for peace sake to yeeld as farre as I may without v●●lating the solemne Covenant I have taken , and betraying truth and innocency . Decem. 26. This begat the friendly conference mentioned by Master Marshall , which was Decem. 30. 1644. in the morning afore the Assembly sate . At the very beginning of that Conference , Master Marshall having this last written message in his hand , & reading those words , [ and he demands of me a promise of silence in that point ] told me that he did not demand of me a promise of silence in that point ; for that was beyond his line : this was his very expression . As soon as ever I heard those words , I conceived my selfe freed from the snare I most feared of making a promise , which as the case might stand , I could not keep with a good conscience . Then Master Marshall spake to this effect , that yet for the satisfaction of those who should enquire of him concerning me , he desired to know my intentions . Whereupon I dealt freely , that I intended not to publish my opinion in the Pulpit , if I might be where I should not be put to baptize : for I conceived it not likely , that there would be a Reformation of that thing in this Age , there having been so long a practise of Infant-Baptisme , and such a prejudice in men against the opposers of it : yet I told him that if any should preach to that people I had charge of , that which I conceived to be an errour , I did resolve to oppose it there , otherwise other mens preaching abroad should be no provocation to me : So that it is cleare , I made no promise , and that intimation of mine intentions which I made was only , that I intended not to preach my opinion in that place unlesse provoked there . And this any man may perceive was my meaning by Master Marshals owne relation , in which the prov●● is rightly expressed ; That if any should preach in my Pulpit for baptizing Infants , I tooke my selfe bound in the same place to preach against it , otherwise mens preaching or printing abroad should be no provocation to me ; to wit , to preach that opinion in that place . And whereas Master Marshall alleadgeth this for his Quietus est , he might have remembred , that I told him in expresse termes , that it Lawes were likely to be enacted to make the deniall of Infant-Baptisme penall , I held my selfe bound in conscience to appeare in publique about that matter : yea , and Master Marshall told me he intended me some animadversions on my Examen ; whence it may be collected , that neither Master Marshall nor my selfe had agreed to lay aside the dispute it selfe . It is true , Master Marshall did endeavour to possesse me with this , That Reformation of Congregations might be without altering the use of Infant-Baptisme . To which I answered , that though much might be done other wayes , yet it would never be right , till Christs way of baptizing were restored . About two houres after , Master Marshall comming to me , in the presence of Master Obadiah Sedgwicke , repeating the intimation of my intention aforenamed , with the proviso , told me , he would give testimony in my behalfe as I desired . Upon this I parted with Master Marshall , and Master Sedgewicke walking with me , commended my proceeding in that matter , and made a notion to me , which came to nothing . Upon this I went home very chearfull , not only because I prized amity with Master Marshall , and there was a likely way of my imploiment and maintenance ; but chiefly because I was freed from that I feared , as a snare , the promise of silence , and there were great hopes that my brethren in the Ministery would not be rigid in ejecting out of the Ministery and Communion , those that dissented from them in that point , and so separation and mutuall persecution might be prevented ( which was and is still the great feare that possesseth my spirit ) and liberty might in time be given for the shining forth of the light in this thing , and by degrees Reformation might be perfected , which I conceived the only safe and happy way . Upon these considerations I acquainted sundry of my near friends with this mercy of God to me , and being requested to joyne in keeping a day of Thanksgiving at Anth●l●● , I 〈◊〉 1. following for publique mercies , I made a speciall memento in my booke of speciall passages of my life , to blesse God that day for the conference I had with Master Marshall in peace and amity : What Master Marshall did after for me I do not well know , I beleeve he did as he promised , and after a triall of me three Lords-daies at the Temple , I was in the end of Ianuary chosen by the Treasurers , and and sundry others of the members of both the honourable Societies of the Temples to be their Preacher for a yeare . After these things , being acquainted with a Law made in New-England , and proceedings against those that denied baptizing of Infants , I yeelded to the sending of my Examen thither , though not so large as it is now printed ( for the dissertation about a speech of Master Cotton Part. 3. Sect. 3. Pag 42 , 43. and some other things were added since ) meerly to occasion the study of this matter more exactly , and to allay the vehemency of their spirits , and proceedings against those that dissented from them , and therewith I sent this short Epistle . To all the Elders of the Churches of Christ in New-England , and to each in particular , by name to the Pastor and Teacher of the Church of God at Boston there these present . Reverend Brethren , VNderstanding that there is some disquiet in your Churches about Poedobaptisme , and being moved by some that honour you much in the Lord , and desire your comfortable account at the day of Christ , that I would yeeld that a Copy of my Examen of Master Marshall his Sermon of Infant-Baptisme might be transcribed to be sent to you I have consented thereto , and do commend it to your examination in like manner , as you may perceive by the reading of it I did to Master Marshals ; not doubting but that you will as in Gods presence ; and accountable to Christ Iesus weigh the thing , remembring that of our Lord Christ , Ioh. 7. 24. Iudge not according to the appearance , but judge righteous judgement . To the blessing of him who is your God , and our God , your Iudge , and our Iudge I leave you , and the flocke of God over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers , and rest , From my study at the Temple in London , May 25. 1645. Your Brother and fellow servant in the worke of Christ , IOHN TOMBES . THe accounting of this act a shewing of my scorne of Master Thomas Goodwin , Master Vines , and Master Marshall , I take rather to be the effect of a distempered palat , than a right-discerning taste . After this , sundry things happened which did induce me to yeeld to the importunity of those that sollicited earnestly the publishing of my writings for the publike good . I had sent to Master Marshall after his returne from Scotland , to know what he would do about the motions I made in the Epilogue of my Examen , for the discussing of the point in difference between him and me . The best of the answer I received was , that sith I had now a place for my Ministery without baptizing Infants , he expected I would be quiet . About that time I had occasion to make triall of the Assemblies approbation of me . The Examiner told me , that there were many of the Assembly that did scruple in Conscience , the giving approbation to me because of my opinion . The Directory had been published , and an Ordinance of Parliament to make the not using it penall . Preparations were to send Bills to the King , among which I assured my selfe that would be one , which if once past , it would be too late to make an afterplea . The Sermons in publique were still as earnest against this tenet as ever . The people of the City much enquired into this matter . A publique disputation was once allowed about it to which I was earnestly solicited but for weighty reasons refused it . Sundry came to me to request the perusall of my papers for their satisfaction many learned , godly , and prudent persons , both of them that differed in judgement , as well as those that agreed with me , moved me to have them printed , for the bringing of truth to light . I saw not wherein any danger to the State or Church might be created by the printing of them , and which was beyond all to me ▪ I was confirmed it was a truth I held , had tried all fit meanes to have it examined , had been guided in the searching of it , and preserved for this businesse by many remarkeable providences , and thereupon after prayer to God by my selfe , and with others for his direction , I yeelded to the printing of them , not out of a restlesse spirit to vent my selfe , as Master Marshall imagined , nor out of any mind to encrease the divisions and confusions of the time ( then which there is nothing my spirit and waies more abhorre ) but to vindicate truth , performe my duty to which I was bound by solemne Covenant , to do my best for the preventing of that sad evill of removing out of the Ministery , and out of Communion , and out of the State also them that could not yeeld to Infant-Baptisme , which is more likely then any thing to encrease our divisions , and make tumults , especially if the relations , and instigations of some fiery spirits prevaile . And in this , I doubt not but I have dealt faithfully to God and to the State , and charitably to other men , without violating any engagement , what ever I suffer in mine owne person . I must confesse had I seen any inclination in the Assembly , or Master Marshall , or other leading-men to examine my writings in a faire Scholastike way , and had I had meanes to be able to beare the charges of an impression , and no Lawes likely to be established to make the holding of my opinion penall , I had resolved not to publish my writings in English , but in Latine , and therefore I first framed my Exercitation in Latine , conceiving the Assembly would have apprehended my aime and intention , to be to deale only with Schollars in this matter : but all things falling out crosse to my expectation , I conceived it was the will of God it should be printed as it was . Thus much for the justifying the publishing of my Treatises . The next charge against me is my abusing my Antagonists . And in this Master Geree in his Epistle to the Lord Mountague speakes thus . The Author whom I answer , hath used his opponents more coursly then was conventent to their worth , and places . But all men count his ●leightings of opponents a blemish to his worke . Master Marshall in his Defence , Pag. 244. For even thither have some sent your writings , and sufficiently in them shewed your scorne of M. Thomas Goodwin , Master Vines , and my selfe , as our friends do from thence write to us . And Pag. 53. I alleadge all this to shew , you should not thus vilifie and scorne their ( meaning the Ancients ) practice and grounds , as if the Century writers , and generally all Protestant writers , yea Master Marshals owne friend , if I mistake not , The●philus Philokyrtaces Lon●ardiensis in his Dies Dominica , when they note the naevi quisquiliae blemishes , and errors of Fathers and Councils did vilifie and scorne them : which if it be an uncharitable imputation to them , it is so to me , unlesse it be thought that men cannot conceive bad enough of an Antipaedobaptist . Pag. 62. throughout your whole Treatise you strive to make an ostentation of reading , and put abundance of scoffes and jeeres upon them who are of contrary mind to you . Pag. 76. You powre out such abundance of scorne upon them , who think otherwise then you do . I answer , 1. That the words interpreted as scoffing & scorning , and jeering are not such , but usuall School-expressions frequent in Schooles , and in the most temperate writings of the most moderate men of the same profession , towards them that dissent from them , so that I assure my selfe , had not my Antagonists before distasted my worke , and consequently the Author , they would not have been so construed . How ever Master Geree say all men count my sleighting opponents a blemish to my worke , yet one I am sure commended my writing for the contrary , that I had discovered the weaknesse of the opponents by such expressions , nor did my Father Scudder except against those passages as offensive which Master Marshall doth , though more then halfe was read to him , and observed by him of purpose to avoid offence , afore it was sent to Master Marshall . 2. That there were many reasons why Master Marshall should have otherwise conceived of me in those expressions , as namely my Declaration of my intention , and petition thereupon in the prologue of the Examen , Part. 1. Sect. 1. my respective speeches of Master Marshall in the same place , Pag. 2. and Part ▪ 2. Sect 7. Pag. 26. and also in the Epilogue , Part. 4. Sect. 8. And if Master Marshall had remembred it , when in our friendly conference he had told me , he did not expect so high expressions from me , which I conceived he meant of my downright censuring of his Arguments , not contemning his abilities , and I told him I conceived it necessary to do so , because he called his Arguments undeniable , and had charged the Anabaptists with a bloudy sentence , I desired an instance of such an expression as was offensive , which being given by Master Marshall , I left those words out in the printed Book , and would have dealt so with any other , had I conceived it would have been so construed . I might adde further , that when Master Geree came to me the day he published his ▪ Booke , a moneth afore Master Marshals Defence came forth , I told him he did not conceive aright of me in that charge in his Epistle Dedicatory , and gave him my reason , and told him that I might have much wrong by it , and desired that intimation might be given to Master Marshall thereof . Which whether he did or no I know not , but I supposed it might have occasioned Master Marshall if he could not alter his Copy , yet to have added something in the beginning or end of his Book , to have allayed the asperity of that charge . But what are those passage in which I powre out such abundance of scorne on . Master Vines , Master Thomas Goodwin , and Master Marshall ? All the passage of Master Vines thus interpreted is Examen , Part 2. Sect. 6. But how knowes Master Vines this ? I do not take Master Vines for a Prophet , and to inferre this by reason , The Anabaptist u●geth Matth. 28. 19. against paedobaptisme , Ergo he will urge Rom. 12. 19. against Magistracy , is in my slender apprehension a baculo ad angulum . He had said , the Anabaptists which urged Matth 28 19. against padobaptisme when we shall ●e thriven to his full stature , will undermine Magistracy by Rom. 12. 19. Which words seeme to imply , that an Anti-paedobaptist is but a young Anti-Magistrate , and that the same vegetative faculty , that is the same reason that did nourish the one would beget the other . This inference being unreasonable , yet spoken to such an Auditory by a man of such eminency at such a time , and therefore tending to the suppression of Truth , and them that held it , I conceived it necessary to blunt the edge of it , without any scorne of him , whom I respect as my loving neighbour , but for necessary defence of truth , in a Schoole expression used by many Protestant writers , and among others , by Master Gataker in his Rejoynder to Can in defence of Master Bradsha● , Pag. 113. As for Master Thomas Goodwin it is true , Part. 3. Sect. 7. Pag. 68. of my Examen I said thus . I remember Master Thomas Goodwin , who hath handled this matter of Poedobaptisme , by spinning out similitudes and conjectures ( fit indeed for the common people that are more taken with resemblances then syllogismes ) rather then with close Arguments . In this passage saies Master Marshall , Pag. 143. I stept out of the way to reproach Master Thomas Goodwin , that I vilifie him as a man who by spinning out similitudes , and conjectures deludes his A●ditory with such things rather then with satisfactory arguments , that why like Ishmael my Sword should be against every man he cannot tell , that he knowes him to be a learned godly Divine , and an eminent Preacher of the Gospell of Christ , and his worth not to be blasted by my scornfull speeches , that I have set down his Notions otherwise then he preached . To all which I answer . That passage of mine was not to vilifie Master Goodwin , but to passe a right censure on his Sermons , as I did in like manner on Doctor Featlies Treatise , Pag. 143. without any vilifying of his learning , because I saw the esteem of them held men in errour . Which is so frequent , and just a thing , that it was held meet that an Advertisement should be added to the new Annotations on the Bible , to prevent the danger of some passages in favour of the Prelacy and Liturgie . Hanc veniam petimusque damusque vicissim . And this fact of mine is most injuriously construed , as if I did this like an Ishmael that loved to have my Sword against every man , as if I affected contention : then which there could not be a thing more falsly charged on me , though in pursuance of truth I held my selfe bound to examine every mans sayings , which I tell Master Marshall in the Epilogue of my Examen , to be for exact disquisition of it . Doctor Twisse in his Vindiciae gratiae against Arminius often makes digressions , and doth vocare ad partes Molinaeus , Piscator , Lubbertus , Alvarez , &c. He writes against Doctor Iackson , Master Cotton , &c. Master Gataker against Doctor Ames , Voetius , Balmford , Lucius , Gomarus , Master Walker &c. doth any man therefore make them like Ishmael whose Sword is against every man ? Master Marshall saies that I vilifie Master Thomas Goodwin as a man who by spinning out similitudes and coniectures deludes his Auditors , and then gives him an E●●omium , in which he would have it believed that I charged Master Thomas Goodwin as a man wont to do thus , whereas my words 〈◊〉 only concerning that matter of Paedobaptisme , which doth nothing prejudice him in his other workes , of which I have in my Examen , Pag. 163. given an Encomium . And for my censure , it was grounded partly on his own expressions , that in sundry points pertaining to that matter we must be content with hints , which is all one with conjectures , and partly on the maine principles of his dispute ; which were , that forasmuch as the promises to Beleevers children are indefinite , as Acts 2. 39. Luke 19. 8. God hath so cast the order of his election , that multitudes come out of the loynes of his people , that administration of the Lords Supper and Baptisme is to be by a Judgement , that we are to judge any Infant-children of Beleevers to be holy by parcels , though not all in the lumpe , that they are therefore to be accounted holy with a reall saving holinesse , 1 Cor. 7 , 14. Matth. 19. 14. and therefore to be baptized according to the rule implyed , Act. 10. 47. Concerning which I say still that I expected Arguments , but counted my selfe deluded with these conjectures , as finding nothing to his purpose in any of these Texts , which were the maine he alleadged , they neither proving that God had ordered his election so as for the most part to run through the loynes of Beleevers , nor that we are to judge any of the Infants of Beleevers to be in the Covenant , or Elect by parcels , though not all in the lumpe , nor that Baptisme is to be administred by such a conjecturall or uncertaine judgement . But forasmuch as I have disputed at large in my Examen , Part. 2. Sect. 10. Part 3. Sect. 3. 4. about the promises to Beleevers children , and examined all the Texts forementioned , and shewed that we are not to administer Ordinances by our conjecturall judgement , concerning Gods Election , or inward holinesse , God having not made that the condition of his servants applying his Ordinances , which can be infallibly known to none but himselfe , as Master Marshall rightly in his Sermon of baptizing Infants , Page 3. but according to the certaine judgement of a persons profession of the faith , I shall not examine this thing here at large : only I thought it necessary to say thus much , not to vilifie Mr G●odwin , but to shew the weakenesse of the Cause , for which no better proofes could be brought , then such uncertaine guesses even by a man so able as Master Thomas Goodwin , who hath in other things shewed his sufficiency beyond other men . And though I deny not but I might mistake him in some passages , or not exactly reci●● his words ; yet I do not conceive I have misreported his Sermons , and however , and whenever they shall be printed , I hope I shall be able to produce the written notes of others to verifie my setting down his Notions ; yet if I should mistake passages in Sermons not printed , it were excusable , in comparison of the usage I have met with from Doctor Homes , and Master Marshall himselfe , who in not a few places , yea I may truly say all along , do in their framing answers to my written speeches , crook my words where they are streight , and they might have discerned them so to be , had their hast in publishing their answers permitted them to ponder my writings . As for instance : Master Marshall had averred that the Christian Church hath been in possession of Infant-baptisme for the space of 1500. yeares and upwards , I replyed , that if it were true , yet it is not so much as may be said for Episcopacy , &c. And after , For antiquity not Apostolicall there are plaine testimonies of Episcopacy , &c. being in use before any of the testimonies you or any other can produce for baptizing of Infants . Now M. Marshall in his D●fe●c● , Pag. 7 ▪ 8. First sets down my words thus , As much may be said for Episcopacy , &c. That there are plaine testimonies , for Episcopacy &c. before any testimonies can be produced for the baptizing of Infants , and then tels me , that the Ancients testifie that the baptizing Infants was received in all ages , and from the very Apostles as a Divine Institution , no such thing of Episcopacy , if I can make it good , I shall do a very acceptable service to the Papists , Anabaptists , and Prelaticall party , if I cannot , I should do well to revoke that bold assertron . In which Master Marshall deales not candidly with me , when I had said , if it were tru● , yet it is not so much as may be said for Episcopacy , ( meaning that which he had said ) the Church hath been in possession of Infant-baptisme 1500. yeares and upwards , Master Marshall sets down my words , as if I had said , as much may be said for Episcopacy , and in the latter passage leaves out the words [ Antiqu●ty not Apostolicall ] and [ being in use ] and then insinnates , as if I had asserted , that the Ancients say as much for the Divine Institution of Episcopacy as for Infant-baptisme . Whereas I only spake of the possession and being in use , nothing of the Divine Institution , and my assertion is so manifest , that even the advertisement at the end of the New Annot : on the Bible , confesseth it a custome very ancient , and neere the Apostles time , as Chamier truly acknowledgeth , Lib. 10. c. 6. de Oecumenico Pontifice , Tom. 2. Pag. 353 Mol●n in his Epistle to Bishop Andrewes , ( if my memory deceive me not ) confessed it to have been ab ipsis Apostolorum temporibus . And I conceive Master Marshals leaving out in his proposition of the first part , [ as n●w ta●ght ] which was in mine , and framing it thus , in opposition to mine [ Infant-baptisme no late innovation ] may occasion an unwary reader to conceive I had simply asserted it to be a late innovation . Now this course , though it may perhaps not prejudice my writings with those that are able and willing to take paines to compare together writing with writing , yet the greatest part either through want of leasure or skill , or through disaffection to me or mine opinion , or through a secure resting on ▪ Master Marshals word neglecting it , it is a great injury to me , and to the Truth , As for Master Thomas Goodwins Sermons of Infant-baptisme , whether my censure of them , or Master Robert Bayly one of the Scottish Commissioners charge in his Dissuasive , Cha. 6. Pag. 119. do more disparage them or him , I leave it to Master Marshal's , Master Goodwin's and their friends consideration . It hath been excepted against me that I say , Pag. 139. of my Examen , which if he can apply to Infants , erit mihi magnus Apollo , which is no worse then what Master Gataker hath animadv . in Luci : Part. 1. Sect. 8. Pag. 22. Inter iustum & insontem qui distinctionem iustam dederit . erit is mihi magnus Apollo : and that I have said Master Goodwin dictated at Bow , which is so harmelesse an expression , that even the preface to the new Annot : and the advertisement call their writings , their dictates . Let us consider the scorns put upon Mr. Marshall . When I urged Mr. Geree in private conference to instance in particulars , wherein I had dealt coursely or sleighted my opponents , expecting he would have shewed me where I had falsified their words , or belyed , or derided their persons ; instead of any such matter he alleadgeth that passage , part 3. of my examination , pag. 36. of which Mr. Marshall , pag. 94 of his defence sayes , This you cast away with scorne , affirming it to be an easie answer , because it is easie to be answered ; which possibly may be thought to have some lepidity ( which is sure but a veniall sin in one tired , as I was with hewing at such a knotty piece as Mr. Marshalls Sermon ) but how it should be a casting of scorne I see not . In the same place Mr. Marshall sayes , I make my selfe merry with the word virtuall , as if the examining the sense of a distinction , were making merry with it , pag. 103. He sayes , I wonder you should seeke to cast an odium upon my expression ( as you doe here , and severall other times ) by saying it is a joyning with Arminius . I answer , where I said he joynes with Arminius , I conceive still I said right ; not to east an odium upon his expressions , but to shew the errour of them . And for that particular I charged Mr. Marshall with , in calling Proselytes , who sought justification by the works of the law Abrahams seed , he joyns with Arminius in his Analysis , c. 9. ad Rom. and opposeth Bayne , it was right . For Arminius saith , Ratio est à duplice semine Abrahami , quorum unum tantum verbo isto & proposito comprehendatur . And this double seed of Abraham he calls the sons of promise , whom he defines , sunt illi qui fide in Christum justitiam & salutem quaerunt , and the children of the flesh , whom he defines ; qui per opera legis justittam , & salutem consectantur . ( I confesse it was in my copy through an easie , but not materiall oversight ; consequuntur , yet in the English I render it , follow : but why this should puzzle Mr. Marshall I know not ) And to this calling some Abrahams seed , who no otherwise were Abrahams seed , but in that they professing Judaisme , sought righteousnesse by the law , Bayne rightly opposeth that speech , that those that conceive carnally of the law seeking righteousnesse by it without something else adjoyned , to wit naturall generation ; are never called Abrahams seed . Yet Mr. Marshall in his Sermon , and again in his defence , pag. 10. calls those Abrahams seed , who are not so by naturall generation , or by faith ; but are Proselytes , seeking Iustification by the works of the Law : Which is the very ground of Arminius his perverting the ninth of the Romans to maintain his opinion of respective Predestination . As for Master Marshall's vindication of himselfe , it goes upon this mistake , as if I had charged him with agreeing with Arminius in the expounding the ninth to the Romans , and in his opinion of election upon foreseen faith , whereas I only charged him with joyning with Arminius in this particular , to call the Proselytes that were Jewes by profession , but sought righteousnesse by the law , Abrahams seed ; pag. 105. Mr. Marshall sayes , that I try all my wits and artifices to shake the strength of his second conclusion by scornfull speeches , &c. The truth is , I was put to the triall of all my wits to find out the meaning of his second conclusion ; but as for the strength of it , it is so small , that he that can but shew the ambiguity in it , may refute it without much adoe . As for the scornfull speeches Mr. Marshall can find but one , which was the calling of his second conclusion , a Cothurnus ; which I never dream't would have been taken for an expression of scorne , but a proverbiall phrase signifying an ambiguous speech used by David Pareus in his judgement on the 5 Articles sent to the Synod of Dort , and by others the most grave , and solid Divines , I said , pag. 54. That Mr. Marshall did very carnally imagine the Church of God to be like civill corporations , this he calls pag. 121. a scornfull puffe , but why he should call it so , I am yet to seek . pag. 124. he sayes , that I sleight and scorn that which I know nor how to answer , but it would be hard for Mr. Marshall to verify this in any particular ; pag. 133. he calls the use of the word Coccysme very frequent among Schollars , and of the same meaning with Crambe used by Mr. Marshall , pag. 256. a scornfull expression ; and because I say , pag. 63. of my Examen , your argument needs a swimmer of Delos to bring it out of the deep , this he calls pag. 134. my method to cast a scorn upon an argument , which is only the using a proverbiall speech used by Spanheimius in his dubia Evangelica , and others concerning a thing that there is need of skill to find it out , pag. 162. 163. in answering the argument brought to prove that holinesse , 1 Cor. 7. 14. is not federall Mr. Marshall sayes . All the reply you make to 〈◊〉 , pag. 80. is to bestow a few scoffes upon it ; that my answer is to deny the conclusion , that I shew no faultinesse either in the matter , or the forme of the argument , that the scope that I mention is but a meer figment ; that I doe as good as say that the objectour can make no argument out of it , and that therefore I need make no answer . And that in one place I grant the minor , then the major ; and thus you most gallantly vapour upon me : and after , I durst leave all Schollers to judge , whether my answer deserves all this scorne ; and after , you thought to carry it with more advantage to you by scoffing , then by solemn refuting ; and after . Truly Sir , I am perswaded all learned men either laugh at , or pity this vanity of your disputing ; and pag. 164 not once suspecting I should have met with an adversary so uningenious to say no worse , who would have said the balking of this question , had been the yeelding of the cause . To all this I reply , that my words are misrecited by Mr. Marshall . I did not say , his answer is to deny the conclusion , but thus , I find no answer to the argument here , except it be an answer to an argument to deny the conclusion . Nor doe I say , that the baulking of the question , whether the beleever , when he commits fornication with an infidell , remove the barre in the unbeleeving party , as that the child is ( in the beleeving parents right ) to be reckoned to belong to the covenant of Grace , and Church of God , had been the yeelding of the Cause , which he makes my uningenuity . 2. The passages only taxe a defect in Logick in Mr. Marshall in that place , but doe indeed containe neither matter of scorn , nor gallant vapouring . 3. And however learned men pitty or laugh at the vanity of my disputing , I doubt not to make it appeare ; that neither Mr. Marshall nor Mr. Geree have yet made an answer to that argument , which doth overthrow his exposition of federall holinesse , that though Mr. Geree sayes there was ignoratio Elenchi , yet indeed there is no ignoratio Elenchi , the thing being concluded that was to be concluded ; and whereas Mr. Marshall first new makes the major , and then denies it , he deales not rightly in putting in words to anothers argument , and yet the major is rather true with his addition , and then Mr. Marshall puts a minor of his owne ; and denies it . But the truth is , the argument should be thus framed : That holinesse which might be though one of the Parents , were not sanctified to the other , is not here meant ; but faederall holinesse might be , though one of the Parents were not sanctified to the other . Ergo , Federall holinesse is not here meant ; or thus , that uncleanesse wh●ch doth not agree to all the children of those whose Parents are not sanctified one in or to another is not here meant : but federall uncleanesse doth not agree to all the children of those whose Parents are not sanctified one in or to another ; Ergo , Federall uncleannesse is not here meant . But these things I reserve till I review the dispute about the meaning of 1 ▪ Cor. 7. 14 concerning which I doubt not , but if God spare me life and liberty I shall make good my argument , and answer Mr. Marshalls exceptions , yea and further shew , that if the sanctification and bolinesse be taken from the faith of one party , and not from the relation of husband and wife ; the Apostles reason as they expound it , would have served to resolve two fornicatours whereof one is a beleever , the other remaining in infidelity ; that they may live together as well as two married persons . pag. 10. I said , surely this is a s●●nd signe that you are not likely to make good your ground , when you have yeelded so much : this he calls pag. 105. an idle scoffe , enough in it there is nothing like a scoffe . pag. 113. I say . But your fe●●hing such a compasse about , makes me imagine your attempt will prove but a parturiunt montes , the mountai●es bring forth . This Mr Marshall calls a jeere , and a confident scoffe , and I confesse this carries the shew of a jeere , when the other part of the verse is ●●●ed ; but I left it out of purpose , that it might not be so taken ; conceiving Mr. Marshall would have construed it ( as even grave Scholars use it ) to signify an attempt that is faire in shew , but vaine in the issue . pag. 122. I say of Mr. Marshall's consequence which he called undeniable and clear , thus : if you apprehend clear consequence in it , you may enjoy your conceii ; nos non sumus adeò sagaces , we are not so quick witted ; this Mr. Marshall sayes , pag. 208. is to seek to render an adversary ridi●ulous , by jeeres and scoffes . But the truth is that was not mine intent , but the griefe of my spirit when I wrote this , being then rejected by Mr. Marshall in the busines of the Temple , being told that it was the Assemblies rule not to nominate any to a place in the ministery that questioned the baptizing of infants , pinched with the sadnesse of my condition , and considering how the Magistrate was incited against such as could not subscribe to Mr. Marshalls judgement , upon his reasons which he called undeniable , an indignation that men should be undone for not assenting to so poore proofes , made me after I saw my exercitation stirred not to use that quicknesse in those expressions ; which I am perswaded , had I not done , the point would not have been examined by them to this day : p. 122. Mr Marshall sayes , your answer is a scoffe out of Horace , Amph●ra coepit institui , &c. which is no scoffe , but a speech often in the writings of Scholars , used to signify , that one fals short of that he should prove . pag. 164. I speak of Mr. Marshalls discourse about Gods sealing conditionally to infants , & their after agnizing thus . And therefore this that you make an objection I looke on as a frivolous supposing a Chimaera , and then disputing about it . This Mr Marshalls calls a scoffe . But what is more usuall with Schollars , then to call a fiction a Chimaera , without the imputation of scoffing ? And these are all the supposed scoffes against Mr Marshall , that I find noted by him . Now that it may appeare how unequally Mr Marshall deales with me , ( that I mention no other ) that most accurate and grave writer Mr Gatak●r in a little thing containing but 60 pages , in a full letter intituled Antithesis , in answer to two Protestants godly men , and as eminent as Mr Marshall ; Doctor Ames an English-man Professor of Divinity at Franiker in Westfriesland , and Gisbert Voetius Professour of Virecht , about Lusory lots : hath these passages , pag. 6. Sibyllae qod fertur folium : sed qod nisi sibylla nobis explicuerit interpretaturum alium credo autore dempto neminem , pag. 16. cum absurdit as illius detecta a plane jam fuerit & reverà defensoribus suis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pag. 17. quam invovoluta tandem ista ? &c , de sensu si ambigimus , condonabit nobis spero , Amesius ; neqe enim hebettoris paulò ingenii qi sumus ista facilè asseq●imur , pag. 20. verum ista prout & superiora ploeraque 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pag. 21. nam qae s●quntur mihi aenigmata sunt mera , & Sphinge vel Oedipo opus habent , pag. 22. nam qae sequntur non sunt nauci , pag. 22. neqè enim perspicuè loqi amat Amesius ; sed anguillarum in morem ambiguae locutionis coeno sua involvere & occultare solenne habet , pag. 24. nam in testimonii illius , qod plurimum in hac causa , ponderis obtinet interpretatione , meras agis praestigias ; eaqe proponis , qae sibi invicem adversantur , &c. pag. 27. verum pronuntiata ista qae ex hic positis tamen profluunt , sunt ab omni sensu humano prorsus aliena . Ita levior deprehenditur ratiuncula ista , qae pro argumento tamen Achillaeo ac palmario proponitur , qàm sunt ipsa farfari folia , pag. 31. qàm imbelle 〈◊〉 elumbe planè argumentum , & viro tanto prorsus indignum . Ecqis tam vecors ut ista admittat ? pag. 32. qo teneam vultus mutantem Protea modo , pag. 33. vanitatis illos potius incuset Amesius , qi tam vana nobis aggesserunt , seqe etiam qi adversus istud objecta tanqam adversus illud opposita proponit ; tum consecutionibus è suo cerebro confictis elidendis negot●um sibi frustra facessit , pag. 34. cum aliorum , tum & Amesis etiam ipsius dogma futile , pag. 46. qarum ille q●●sdam tanqam cramben toties recoctam reponit , pag ▪ 48. affirmatur non probatur , quasi Pythagoricum illud 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sufficeret . Which passages as I conceive no men ever charged with scoffing so neither doe I conceive justly might mine , which shew no more sleighting or contempt of my opponents then his doe . But pag. 94. of my Examen I say , the misunderstanding of Colos . 2. 11. 12. hath been the Ignis fatuus , foolish fire , which h●th led men out of the way in this matter into bogs . Upon this Mr Marshall pag. 170. thus speaks to me . Truly sir , were these scorns of being led by foolish fire into bogs &c. cast upon my selfe only , it were nothing ; but when they are thus cast in the faces of all Divines , ancient and modern ; all Harmonies and Confessions ( except onely a handfull of upstart Anabaptists ) as if they were all such simple ones that an ●gnis fatuus , a fools fire might lead them into any bogs ; I can hardly forbeare to tell you : it is an argument of an arrogant spirit . I pitty Mr Marshall's distemper , that occasioned this passage , to speak of casting scornes in the faces of all Divines ancient and modern , as if all Divines did expound that text , in that misunderstood way I mention ; to talke of all Harmonies and Confessions , instead of the Harmony of confessions , which containes not many ; and one I am sure it is not against , to wit the English confession : to speak disdainfully of them that are his opponents under the term of upstart Anabaptists to make the using of the term ignis fatuus , to resemble a misunderstanding a scoffe ; to impute it to me as if I had accused all Divines ancient and mod●rn all Harmonies and Confessions of simplicity : as if a misunderstanding might not be in all men out of common infirmity ▪ to impute it to me as if I had said into any bogs , whereas I said , hath led men out of the way in this matter into b●gs meaning the opinions ; that Baptisme succeeds into the place , room ▪ and use of Circumcision : and therefore that the command to circumcise male infants at the eighth day , is a command to baptize any infants of beleivers at any time ; which errours I call bogs , as being indeed Anti-evangelicall errours : though all the Divines on earth should avouch them , yet this I may say without arrogance of Spirit , in just and necessary avouching of the truth . That reverend and learned Divine Mr Gataker in his answer to Mr George Walkers vindication , pag. 133. Sayes thus . Howsoever I suppose it no such hainour matter in something to depart from all writers knowne to 〈◊〉 that have gone before us . Sure I am that Junius and Tremellius in translating and expounding some passages of Scripture , departed from all known Interpreters than had gone before them as in that place , Mal. 2. 16. that in all , even the best translations ever before ran ; if thou , hate her , put her away ▪ Pareus Comment : in 1 Cor. 1. 12. miror verò hoc loco omnes ferè● interpretes fictionem statuere . I might fill a volume with interpretations different from all foregoing ; yea , what interpreter of note is there who doth not differ from all others , and yet it is not counted arrogance ? Besides , if this be not allowed upon cogent reason , how shall Scriptures and Truths be cleared ? How shall we avoyd idolizing of them that goe before us , and subjecting our judgments to them ? And that I spake right , it may appeare in that ▪ in the principall thing of my exposition of Colos . 2 11. 12. to wit , that Baptisme is mentioned not to shew that it succeeds Circumcision , but because it is one of the means whereby we have communion with Christ , and are comple 〈◊〉 in him , and therefore Faith is joyned with Baptisme , and alleaged to prove it ; Gal. 3. 25 , 26 , 27. ( not as in Mr Marshall's defence , Gal. 5. 25 , 26. ) and Rom. 6. 3 , 4 ▪ 5. which plainly shewes that here Baptisme is not mentioned to that end Mr Marshall expresseth , & upon which the misunderstanding of this place was occasioned , but to another ; and therefore it proves not that which Mr Marshall would gather from it ; if it did , it would prove that faith succeeds into the roome place , and use of Circumcision as well as Baptisme . To this Mr Marshall plainly sayes , But is not this the same , sense with mine . But he after spends a great many words to no purpose ( as he is wont to doe when he mistakes my reason ) imagining I had reasoned thus . Baptisme is named as one of the meanes whereby we come to be compleat in Christ , therefore i● d●th not succeed in the room of circumcision , whereas my re●son is t●us . Baptisme is alleaged as one of the meanes whereby we come to bee compleat in Christ , therefore there was another reason besides the succession of it into the place of Circumcision , why the Apos●● there me●tions it , which Mr Marshall denied ; which reason is good , except it were true , that every meanes whereby we are compleat in Christ , succeeds Circumcision , the contrary whereof is confessed by Mr Marshall in acknowledging faith to bee one of the means whereby we are compleat in Christ , which yet succeeds not Circumcision : many more such mistakes in Doctor Homes , Mr. Geree , and Mr Marshall , I may hereafter shew ; I thought it best however God deale with me to cleare my selfe in this , and to take notice of this concession , which with others I may improve to overthrow all Mr Marshall's dispute . But it is arrogance to deny that which all reformed Churches reach , that our Baptisme succeede into the plane , roome , and use of the Jewes Circumcision . To this I answer : 1. I know not that all the reformed Churches teach this , I remember not where this Doctrine is determined in the Church of 〈◊〉 publique Doctrinals . 2. Master Gataker in his Postcript to Master Wo●ns Defence , saith thus , That justification 〈◊〉 remission of 〈◊〉 , for my part I deem erro●●us , and suppose that elsewhere I have evidently shewed 〈◊〉 so to be ; how be it Calvin , B●●● , Olev●● , 〈◊〉 , Piscator , Parens , ●●sculus , Bullinger , Fox , and divers 〈◊〉 of great 〈◊〉 , and name , yea whole Synods of ours are 〈◊〉 so to say , and yet I never heard this charged for arrogancy on him . And for the assertions I impugne , that Baptisme comes in the place , roome , and use of Circumcision , and that this may be proved from Colos . 2. 11 , 12. though Master Marshall hold his rod over me , saying , I can hardly forbeare to tell you it is an argument of an arrogant spirit , I feare not yet to call them an iguis 〈…〉 of the way in this matter into begs . To conclude my answer to this charge of scoffing , I do the lesse marvaile that it is my lot to be thus charged , when Mr Geree in his vindiciae paedob●ptes●● , Pag. 60 , 67. cals one free speech very necessary of Master Ralph 〈◊〉 a man so approved , as by Ordinance of Parliament constituted Master of a House in Cambridge , a quipping 〈…〉 of a satyricall spirit against our reverend Divines , 〈…〉 checked , abhorred , not countenanced . And I say further that if my memory do not deceive me , there are passages in 〈…〉 , that carry as much shew of irony as mine do , towards a man for age , and learning not inferiour to Master Marshall , and therefore I suppose my words , which are usuall among Scholars , might have had a more favourable construction . I am bold to make use of Master Gatakers words to Lucius , Part. ult . Sect. 8. Pag , 91. Stomach● nimium q●m indulget vir Cl : superciliumq● nim is alte attollit , qi tam aegre fert placita su● citra uliam vel censoria magistralitatis , vel censurae magistralis volam aut vestigium eis formnlis qibus apud in scholis disceptantes nihil est vsitatius negari , idq : cum negationis rationes adiectas aut videt aut videre si velit qeat . Neverthelesse I professe freely , that had I dreamed such expressions so usuall in Scholastick disputes would have been so taken , I would for avoyding of offence have abstained from them . There is another charge against me that sticks deeper then the former , and it is this : Master Marshall in his Sermon had mentioned the Anabaptists as a dangerous and turbulen● sect , working a world of mischiefe about Munster , and other parts of Germany . This relation I conceived to be used , not only to Magistrates to make them wary to prevent the like , b●t also in all sorts of Auditories , with much ingemination to make the persons that question the baptizing of Infants odious , and unsufferable in a Christian Commonwealth , and to stop mens eares against such evidence as may cleare the truth in this matter . To this therefore , as being an objection in the mouth of all sorts of men against the Ant●paedobaptists , I thought it best to answer : 1. By granting much of the relation to be true , though perhaps vehemency of opposition ●ath made matters more , or worse then they were , as it is wont to be in such cases . To this Master Marshall saies , that he is confident I shew more good will to the Anabaptists , then intend ill will against those worthy men who have written those stories . I do take with the right hand this charitable opinion in Master Marshall of my intentions , and I plainly reply , that the truth is , that I did use those words , neither out of partiall good will to the one , nor partiall ill will to the other , but out of a desire to remove that prejudice , which hindered men from examining the Truth . As for the men I abhorre the wicked practises of the one , yea so much the more I abhorre he practises of them that would so solemnly by baptisme engage themselves to be Christ Disciples , and yet act such monstrous villanies , as having learned that the more profession a man makes of holinesse , the more accursed is his wickednesse ; and for the other , I beare as much good will to the memory of them , as if they had agreed with me in opinion . I hope I shall never make agreement with me in opinion , the reason or rule of my love , but relation to Jesus Christ , appearing in holinesse of life . Master Marshall saies , that the things are not to be questioned , and that he thinks that I am the first of our Divines who have suspected them to overlash in their relations . To this I say , my words are plaine , that much of this is true I make no question , meaning the maine of the relations , that the men denied baptizing of Infants , and that they brake out into such turbulent practises as are related of them . That which I added though perhaps vehemency of opposition hath made matters more , or worse then they were , as it is wont to be i● such cases , meaning this , of some particular circumstances in some persons , was not because I suspected the overlashing of the Historians , as if they wanted fidelity , but because many things were brought to the publike knowledge by the Bishop and Canons of Munster , their partisans who were Papists , and would aggravate all things to the most to make the Lutheran Reformation become odious ; as Studley did in the accident of Euoch ap Evan killing his mother and brother , or else by captives or desertors , who for favour or mercy would frame their tales , as they conceived might further their ends and because experience of the uncertainty of the manner of carrying things in our times , hath made me speake warily concerning things past . And to speake plainly , when I consider what Hooker relates out of Guy de Bres of the seeming holinesse of the generality of them , their Orthodox confession at first mentioned by Master Marshall from Master Dury his knowledge , the proceedings and parts of Bernardus Rotmannus and some others , the things mentioned by my Examen , Part , 2. Sect. 3. the testimonies of Gualter , and Cassander , that the commotions in Germany began from oppression in the State , that Luther wrot to the Germane Princes against their opressions , the strange spirit of Lutherans ever since , and the wofull tragedies of Germany in this last age , I do count the story of the Anabaptists to containe in it many things , the true reasons of which , and the true knowledge of the circumstances concerning them will not appeare till the day of the revelation of the righteous judgement of God. 2. I assigned some possible meanes of the turbulent carriages , and errours of the Anabaptists , beside their opinion of Antipaedobaptisme . To which Master Marshall saies , he can hardly guesse whether I int●●ded to excuse the Anabaptists in part , or to blame the Reformed Churches for not hearing them , or to hint it as a warning to our selves . I answer , I did it to shew there might be other reasons of those tumults and divisions that the Anabaptists fell into , then the opinion of Antipaedobaptisme ; sundry of which , if not all I think happened in their case . Master Marshall saies , he never read that they sought Reformation in a regular way , or were denied it , before they fell into those furies . How farre they sought it I cannot tell , it is plaine that Carolostadius and Pelargus and some say Melancthon would have reformed it in Saxony , had not Luthers pertinacy in that as well as Consubstantiation , and Images withstood it ; and how Baltazar Huebmer sought it at Zurich , and was denied , it , is known . I thinke the Reformed Churches have been to blame , and so may be our present Reformers , that they have never yeelded to reforme it in a regular way ; and if Anabaptists have never sought it afore me , it hath been it's likely , because they saw mens spirits so bent against them , that they thought it in vaine , yea they have beene rather forced to conceale themselves , it having beene accounted criminall , justly deserving excomunication , deprivation , and sometimes death , so much as to question it . And that the Anabaptists have been so cast out and rendered odious as they have been hath been the reason why they have been forced to become a Sect ( which I do not justifie ) and by reason thereof , factious spirits have joyned with them , and perverted them with other errours , which perhaps had not happened , had th●y been more tenderly and considerately handled at first . 3. I said , but have not the like ▪ of not the same things happened in other matters ? Did not the like troubles happen in Queen Elizabeths daies in seeking to remove Episcopacy and ●eremoni●s ? To this Master Marshall saith , The rest of that Section , is to me extreamely scandalous , when I read your odious compar●●●●s between the Non-conformists in Queene Elizabeths daies , and the Anabaptists in Germany ; it even grieves me to consider , whether affection to your cause doth carry you And Master Geree not only Pag. 70. of his Vina●●c●● paedobapt●smi , wonders at me that I should compare the troubles of the Non-conformists , and the Anabaptists , and marva●les such an uncharitable and unjust thought should arise in me , that divisions or other miscarriages of the Non-conformists should bring them low in England : And beside all this , Master Geree publisheth a single sheet in print , and it came to my knowledge first by one that carried it about with other news Books , and this Paper he styles the Character of an old Pur●tan 〈◊〉 Non-conformist , and in the end saith thus : R●ader s●ing a passage 〈◊〉 Master Tombes his book against P●dob ●pt●sme , where in he compares the Non-conformists in England , to the Anabaptists in Germany , in regard of their miscarr●ages and ill successe in them endeavours till of late yeares , I was moved for the vind●cation of those faithfull , and reverend witnesses of Christ ▪ to publish this character . In which Mr Geree plainly insinuates , that I acculed those faithfull witnesses of Christ , whom he cals elsewhere the grave , godly , learned and unblameable Non-conformists in England . I o answer this objection , I say that I never had a thought by those words Did not divisions and other miscarriages and persecutions , bring the Non-conformists of England as low as the Anabaptists in Germany ? To accuse those men he names of such miscarriages . I honour the memory of Cartwright , Brightman , Hildersham Parker , Dod ▪ Bradshaw , and the rest of the same stampe as godly , learned , unblameable and faithfull servants of Christ . But I said some there were tha● in seeking to remove Episcopacy and ceremonies did by their divisions , meaning those of Browne ▪ Barrow , and others , and other miscarriages , meaning of the writers of the Books called Martin M●rprelate , and the like , the miscarriages of Hacket and his companions , the Prelates taking hold thereof to accuse them as seditious ▪ and to incense the Queen and State against them with per●ec●tion bring them as low as the Anabaptists in Germany . And I said that the like if not the same troubles happened here in England as in Germany , meaning not in the degree , out in the kind , not in the fruit , but in the seed , which if the prudence of the State here had not timely prevented ( which could not be so well done in Germany , by reason of so many petty free States ) might have broken out into as great a flame as those combustions in Germany . In which my intent was not to discredit Bullinger , Sl●id●n , Calvin , &c. no● to justifie in the least manner the Anabaptists wicked practices , but only to shew that in seeking to reforme an abuse , there may happen such miscarriages ▪ and divisions , by the Devils stirrring up some ●actious and by pocriticall spirits of those that joyne with the seekers of Reformation , to breake out into hainous enormities of 〈◊〉 to stop mens mouthes from speaking for , and mens eares 〈◊〉 ●●aring of Truth . And therefore all that love the Truth , 〈◊〉 they have reason to suppresse those turbulent spirits , and 〈◊〉 heed of mens heady advises though for a good end , yet they should not yeeld to the Devill so much as to permit him by the clamours against those factious spirits , to cheat them of the Truth , or to make them lesse , but rather morezealous for it . And that this was my meaning , had my words been either well heeded , or candidly construed , might have been perceived by them . Here I wish Master Geree to consider whether it were agreeable to that friendship he acknowledgeth to have been between us , without any violating of it on my part , to publish such an unjust charge against me , and so to lay more burdens on my backe , after I told him he had not dealt kindly nor rightly with me in his Epistle Dedicatory to a Peere of the Realme in aspersing me , whereby I might suffer much and never be heard speak for my self , & yet never once aske me though he had twice conference with me , once a little before his Book was published , the other , the same day it was put forth , whom I meant in those passages . I may well take up that speech of Absolom to Hushai , Is this thy kindnesse to thy friend ? Now from that which hath been said , it will be easie to answer Master Marshal's Quaeres . The Anabaptists in Germany rose up , and with fire ●nd Sword pulled down Magistracy , Scholes , &c. did the like , if not the same things happen here ? T is true the Bores 〈◊〉 Countrey people over all Germany did such things , and among them were those that they called Anabaptists , but these things were done by others then Anabaptists , and in some places where it doth not appeare to me that any such were : the cause of which was pr●tended the oppressions of the people by the Princes , but in Truth ▪ their desire to plunder , and spoyle . Now though the seekers of the removall of Episcopacy , and Ceremonies did not the same things in degree , yet they did such seditious things as were of the same kind , and tended to them , as inciting against the Magistrates ; such invectives against Schooles , as had they not been withstood , might have produced the same effects , of which you may see passages out of Barrow ▪ in Master 〈…〉 , Chap. 2 ▪ And I pray God we never ▪ find by experience , that discontented I Presbyterians can act the like things for their Presbytery , that Anabaptists did for their Anabaptism ▪ Mr Marshall saith , what did the Non-conformists ever endeavour to do beyond prayers and teares ? If M. Marshall mean by non-conformists such as M. Geree describes in his Character , I have nothing to accuse them , but if he mean by Non-conformists those that ●ought to remove Episcopacy and Ceremonies ( which was my phrase , knowing that in processe of time the terme Non-conformists was contradistinguished to Separat●sts ) some of them used railing against men in place & authority , witnesse the Libels of Martin Marprelate , and such like in too great abundance , some of them , if Cam●en relate true in his Anuals of Elizabeth ad Annum 1591. either conspired with , or some way animated Hacket , upon conceite that he was an extraordinary person raised by God to bring in the Discipline . Master Marshall saies what turbulent Sect was ever among them , my words were , Did not some of them that ●ought to remove Episcopacy and Ceremonies ▪ grow a dangerous and turloulent Sect ? Which words of mine are true in the followers of Browne , Barrow , &c. whom I thinke Mr Marshall will not deny to have been a dangerous and turbulent Sect , and they were at first a part of them that sought to remove Episcopacy and Ceremonies . He askes , what were those divisions and miscarriages which brought them so low ? 〈◊〉 had said , Did not divisions and other miscarriages and persecutions bring the Non-conformists of England as l●w as the Anabaptists ? The divisions I meant , were those that were between the Separatists and other Non-conformists , the miscarriages I meant , were those of Martin Marprelate , Barrow , Hacket , and others which did meite Queene Elizabeth and the S●ate against them , to arme the Bishops with their power , by which they did persecute them . Dr Iohn Burges rejoynder , Chap. 2. Sect. 11. Pag. ●5 . ●or my part I thinke that the violence of some meaner ●en against those things , hath caused the sharper execution of Lawes against some other men of worth . Crudelem medicum intemperans ager facit . Master Marshall toucheth the story of Hacke● and his companions and then saith : But what is this to your purpose 〈◊〉 had Hacket to do with the Non-conformists , who you know ( 〈◊〉 fever you read the story ) abominated him , and would have nothing to do with him 〈◊〉 before he 〈◊〉 into those p●ankes he plaid in London ? I answer , I have read the story of Hacket in Camdens Annals of Queen Elizabeth ad annum 1591. in Saravia against Beza de diver●●s ministrorum gradibus , in Stow and Howe , and I do not find by these that the seekers to remove E●iscopacy did abominate him as you say , but that Wiggi●ton a Minister , and others of that party did either conspire with him , or otherwise encourage him upon the hope they had , that by him the Discipline should be p●omoted , and I find many practises like those of Iohn of Leyden at Munster , as the pretending of revelations , affecting anointing as a King , commanding his Prophets Arthington and Coppinger to go into the Citty and preach , exciting the people against the Archbishop and Lord Chancelour yea I find Hacke●'s end to have been worse in a more horrible manner than that of ●ohn of Leyden : nor do I doubt had London been in the same state as Mu●ster was , but the Tragedy would have been as bad in the seeking to remove Episcopacy and Ceremonies , as it was in seeking to remove Paedobaptisme . And if the Non-conformists did abominate Hackes , so did the Anabaptists that followed Mennon , the Munster , and Batenburgick , furies . And as for the parallel I brought out of Whitg●ft and Hooker , I did it not to justifie their charges against the Non-conformists , but to shew that they deprehended a likenesse of spirit & waies in some of the one , as well as the other . And my end in the whole was to shew , that in seeking to remove a reall errour , and abuse , fa●●ious persons may fall into such miscarriages , and yet their miscarriages ought not to hinder the Reformation of the errour or abuse , though these things may well be urged for caveats to Magistrates and people , to suppresse & take heed of the seditious practises of such agents : which warning being rightly taken , is good and necessary , yea perhaps more necessary for these times then I at first imagined , and so needs not a del●a ur , but a right construction . Another charge Master Ley , and Master Marshall fasten upon me that I wrote my Treatises as a braving Goliah , so Master Ley , ub● supra : Master Marshall in his Defence , Pag. 2. And came into the field so bravingly and gyantlike . Pag. 244. Truly Sir , thu smels a little too ranckely , thus confidently to challenge all men , not contented with Goliah to say , give me a man that I may fight with him , but to defie a whole host , argues a little too much selfe confidence : To which I answer If Master Ley , or Master Marshall either had allowed me so charitable an opinion , as my forepast life and actions might have induced them to have of me , or heeded my words in the prologue and Epilog●e in my Examen , they would never have fastned this charge of a braving Goliah , or c●●fident challenging or defying a whole host on me . ●or my bygone actions , they rather speake me a man willing to gratifie others , and to serve the common good , then to make estentation of my selfe out of selfe confidence . There are many that can make report of my labours in the places where God hath disposed of me , there are none that can give one instance , wherein I have put my selfe forward to shew my parts either in Preaching the publike Sermons in the University , or at Pauls , or in great meetings in the Countrey ▪ or before great men , or the Parliament , or the Armies , out what ever I have done upon any such occasions , necessity or conscience have induced me to it . And for my writings such as they are , setting aside the Examen and Exercitation , they carry their plea for them in their forehead . Infirmities I have , and those many , but sure the whole course of my actions are a plea for me against this imputation of a braving , challenging , vaunting humour : yea did not the mindfulnesse of my account in God , love to the soules of men , and the discharge of my duty , lead me into publique actions , I should rather embrace that advise , be●● qui latuit , benè vixit . Certainly in this businesse , I was so farre from the braving humour , that , as may be perceived by the relation above , necessity engaged me to it , not selfe confidence , and an humour of ostentation . The truth is , there were other arguments that I had entered upon , before I was engaged in this matter , as namely against the mortality of the soule , universall grace , the Antinomian errours about justification , and justifying faith ▪ and some since , as about the matter and forme of a particular visible Church , about the nature of Schisme and Heresie , in which I might safely have exercised such abilities as I have , if selfe ostentation had been my motive , and not have put my finger in this fire , durst I desert the Truth . But how uncharitably Mater Ley , and Master Marshall do construe my action , I thinke it will presently appeare to him that shall read the Prologue , and E●●logue of my Examen , especially those speeches , wherein I declared my intentions to be either to rectifie Master Marshall , or to be ractified by him , that we might give one another the right hand of fellowship ▪ and I pray that the Lord would vouchsafe to frame our spirits to seeke the truth in humility and love , which might have given them cause to have conceived otherwise of my disposition , then they have done , except they judged my speech hypocritical , which I am sure would have been beyond their line to do . In the Epilog●e I tell Master Marshall , that I examined his Sermon in the middest of many wants , distractions , discouragements , and temptations , which were indeed very many , so many that nothing but Gods assistance , and the thought of my account to God could , as then the case was with me , have carried me thorough the worke . I said that I kn●w no reason , why Master Marshall should conceive , that I had taken the paines to examine his Sermon for any ends crosse to the finding of Truth , I tell him plainly , my reall mention in this worke is to discover Truth , and to do what is m●et for me in my calling , towards the Reformation of these Churches , according to Gods word , ●●ts which we have both bound our selves by solemne Covenant . These words should have acquitted me from this charge of braving out of selfe confidence , if Master Marshall , or Master Ley knew nothing to the contrary , as I am sure they did not , and I thinke they have no prospective glasse to look into my brest . And for the words Mr Marshall saies , smell a●lutle too rankely of challenging and difying a whole Host , had he considered or recited the whole period , and not cut off my words in the middest , he had seen that my words were not a braving challenge , but a fai●e and most reasonable motion , to have some one Treatise framed by those that had appeared in publike , and whose writings or Sermons , I had endeavoured to answer , that I might know what they would stand to , and save my selfe the labour and charge of buying and reading every indigested Pamphlet : And after I made another motion , in case this was not liked , to have a meeting to consult about a way of brotherly and peaceable ventilating this point . The rejecting of both these motions by Master Marshall if they make him not inexcusable , yet I presume make my preceedings excusable , and his so p●lpable a misconstruction of my spirit in this matter , doth strongly argue that he looked on my writing with a ●loudshot eye , however he protest the contrary in his Epistle Dedicatory to the Assembly . And I think he should not shoote very wide from the marke , that should imagine that these exceptions against the Author , are for want of a cleare answer to the Booke . There is yet another charge against me that flies higher , and comes ●earer to the matter , if it were true , and it is indeed ( though they do not call it so ) the deceit of Sophistry in my writing , which if it were so , were a damnable sin to pervert the Truth of God by such prophane handling . But let us consider what is said : Master Marshall Pag. 2. of his Defence , saith thus : wherein I shall not ( as you have done ) carpe at every phrase or expression ▪ nor digresse into imp●rtinent discourses , thereby to swell up a volume , nor amuse the Reader with multitudes of quotations of Latin and Greeke Authors , and then turne them into English ; nor frame as many sense of an expression as is possible , and then confute them , and so fight with men of straw , of mine own set●ing up : nor spend a whole sheet of paper together , in confuting what was never intended by my adversary , as the Reader shall clearly perceive you have dealt with me . In answer hereto , I say : The first charge is so ranke , that unlesse he meane by carp●●g something else then I conceive , to wit a wanton , unnecessary , quarrelling , or excepting without cause , it is so palpable an untruth , that I wonder he would let it fall from his 〈…〉 he wrote at adventure . I do sometimes ( and yet not so frequently as there was occasion ) declare the ambig●ity and unfitnesse of some expressions ▪ but never without reason our of a carping humour ▪ much lesse carpe at every phrase or expression . And for the second , it is true ▪ I do make some digressions , and so did Doctor 〈◊〉 White in his 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 Church , Doctor Twiss● 〈…〉 Arminiu● , but these digressions I am 〈◊〉 a reall 〈◊〉 pertinent , and necessary to a full discussion of the argument in hand , 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 a volume , but to cleare the 〈◊〉 ▪ The third ch●●ge is as va●●e , for the quotations are not multitudes , 〈◊〉 so many as that praise worthy writer Master Gat●●er 〈◊〉 of them 〈…〉 not for amusing the Reader but for 〈…〉 speakes it of himselfe , and I there through mistake of memory put [ Ar●es ] for [ Orange ] a City neare it . And these I thanke Doctor Homes for advertising me of : and shall be willing to confesse any other oversights , that no reader may be deceived by me : though for the present I know no other . Doctor Homes names some other , yet I conceive wrongfully . As for the framing of as many senses of an expression as is possible , and then confuting them , this I thought had been a vertue in disputing to find out the many senses of an expression , and to confute them . I ever tooke this good arguing ▪ if the conclusion be true , then in this or that sense , but in none of all these it is true , ergo it is not true ▪ and that this had not been fighting with men of straw , but fighting with the strongest enemy that was in the field . The last charge is , that I spend a whole sheet of paper in confuting what was never intended by him : be it so ; yet if the Reader were likely to take it so , it was fit it should be refuted , and himselfe blamed for speaking no plainer , but leading his Reader and Answerer out of the way , by the ambiguity of his expression . But to examine this charge more fully : He meanes I assure my selfe the refuting of this conclusion Exam Part. 3. Sect. 4. from Pag. 48. to 54. ( which comes short of a whole sheet ) That the Cov●nant 〈◊〉 saving grace in Christ . expressed in Gen. 7. 7. in these words [ I will be thy God , and the God of thy seed ] is made to beleevers and their naturall ●eede . This saith Master Marshall Pag. 116. of his Defence was never asserted by him . For my part , though I conceived still that Master Marshall would never stand to this assertion , and I acknowledged in expresse termes , that sometimes ▪ Master Marshall spake mo●● warily , yet I gave many reasons why in his second conclusion his words were to be so taken , as if he had asserted that , which Master Marshall neither hath ▪ nor I thinke can clearly take off ▪ nor did I herein fasten any thing upon him against 〈…〉 as he 〈◊〉 to suspect , Pag. 116. of his Defence , and Master Geree Pag. 13 ▪ of his Vindiciae paedobaptisms . For the passage be brings out of my Book is not contradictory , s●th I might suppose he held not all the Infants of Beleevers to be actually ▪ regenerate , and yet might suppose he held that the Covenant of saving Gr●●● was made to them all , sith all the Elect persons have the Covenan● made to them as the Apostle supposeth , Rom. 9. 8. and yet are not actually regenerate . Besides Master Marshall in his answer to the fourth and fifth objection , speakes as if he held the Covenant of Grace conditionall ▪ and so might hold that all the children of Beleevers have the Covenant of saving Grace made to them conditionally , though not absolutely . I will adde what Doctor Homes Pag. 1. 3. of his Animadversions tels me . Master T. kn●w learned Master P. ( I thinke he meanes Master William Pemble of Magdalen H●ll in Oxford , a famous worthy writer , whose memory is very pretious to me , in whose time Doctor Homes , Master Geree and my selfe , lived together in that house to the benefit of us all ) who would say , can any meere man write much , and not in any thing contradict himselfe ? Why then should it be thought strange that I should conceive Master Marshall would contradict that in one place , which he had avouched elsewhere , especially sith I find it frequent for Protestant Divines in this very thing , to unsay in dispute against Arminians about perseverance , what they avow in dispute against Anabaptists : sure I am Master Cottons words which I examine in a digression , meane plainly the Covenant of saving Grace , and therefore he interprets Gen. 17. 7. of the Covenant of saving Grace , and Master Philips , that the Covenant is made to them because offered , and Master Thomas Goodwin in his Lectures about Infant-baptisme , meant it of the Covenant of saving Grace and therefore limited it so , as that for the most part Election did run through the loynes of Beleevers , and Master Herle at Bow-Church for Master Goodwin on Heb. 8. 10. tooke upon him to refute Anabaptists from thence , because the Covenant there was made with the house of Judah , and Gal. 3. 14 , the blessing of Abraham was to come upon the Gentiles ▪ and that was the Covenant of saving Grace . And for my part , I know not how to construe those words of the Directory , That the promise is made to Beleevers and their seed , any otherwise then of the promise of saving Grace , which I conceived plaine by the expression following , make this baptisme to the Infant a seale of adoption , remission of sins , regeneration and eternall life , and of all other promises of the Covenant of Grace . The Directory doth in my apprehension plainly appoint the begging for the child the accomplishment of the promise before asserted to Beleevers and their seed , and therefore as in the petition it is meant of saving Graces , so in the assertion , or else the words are so ambiguous , as they may be a Cothurnus , which were more fit for a Canon of the Coun●s of Trent , then for the Directory of a Protestant Church . Besides the same promise is said to be made to Beleevers seed , which is made to Beleevers , but that they will not d●ny to to be meant of the promise of saving Grace , therefore neither the other . To this Master Marshall Pag. 116 , 117. of his Defence answers thus ▪ 1. He leaves out the words which were for my purpose [ and of all other promises of the Covenant of Grace ] which is not right dealing : 2. He makes me to conclude from that I cite out of the Directory , that if there be not a promise of these saving graces to Infants , in vaine are they baptized , and the seal ▪ is put to a blanke . And this consequence he denies , but saith nothing to that which was indeed my reason , which was this , Master Marshal's second conclusion is to be understood as the words in the Directory , this Master Marshall grants , but the words of the Directory speake of a promise of saving Grace . This I prove , 1. Because the same promise is said to be made to the Beleevers seed , which is made to Beleevers , for it were a strange equivocation to understand the same terme in the same proposition in two different senses , but the promise made to Beleevers there meant , is the promise of saving Grace , ergo so is the promise to their seed . 2. Because the words speake of the same promise before , in the direction concerning Doctrine , which they meane after in the direction for petition , else there would be a Cathurnus , which were absurd , but in the petition they mean the promises of saving Grace , therefore also in the Doctrine . As for that which Master Marshall makes my conclusion from the words of the Directory , that in vaine are they baptized , the Seale is put to a blanke : It is no inference from the words of the Directory , but comes in in another period , at least fourteene lines after , and among other reasons it is a medi●m to prove that the second conclusion must be so understood , because that is the plea they make for Infant-baptisme , and therfore unlesse it be so understood , they must revoke that plea. M. G●ree Pag. 13. ( if I understand him aright ) makes this the sense of the Director● , the promise is made to Beleevers and their seed , that is , it is to be presumed in charity of all the Infants of Beleevers , that they enjoy the inward graces of the promise till they discover the contrary . Wherein , though he grant that which I contend for , that in the Directory the promise is meant of saving Grace , yet he hath invented another shift to save the credit of the assertion of Master Marshall and the Directory , which he confesseth , if it be taken as I conceive it is , is so manifestly against Protestant principles and experience that none can hold it . But who would ever construe those words , The promise is made to Beleevers and their seed ; that is , it is to be presumed in charity of all the Infams of Beleevers , that they enjoy the inward graces of the promise , till they discover the contrary , but he that would make mens words like a nose of waxe , to turne them which way he is willing they should be taken ? would any man construe the words [ 〈…〉 to Beleevers ] any otherwise then thus , the promise of saving Grace is made by God to Beleevers ? and must the same phrase in the same proposition in the other part be construed thus [ the promise is made to the seed of Beleevers ] that is , it is to be presumed by men in charity till they discover the contrary , that all the Infants of Beleevers have the inward graces of the Covenant . As if the making of a Covenant were all one with a charitable presumption , or the seed of Beleevers were all one with Infants , or when they are adulti they are not their seed . The Apostle Rom. 9. 6 , 7 , 8. when he expounded the promise , Gen. 17. 7. of the spirituall , not the naturall seed , did not imagine , that the making the promise was mans act of presumption , but Gods act , and Acts 2. 39. ( to which and Gen. 17. 7. it's likely the Directory alludes ) the promise ▪ as Master Marshall expounds it , is of Christ and his saving benefits , and the making of it is meant of Gods act , not mans presumption . Adde hereunto that the whole series of the direction in the Directory carries the meaning thus . For having said , that Baptisme is a Seale of the Covenant of Grace , of our ingrafting into Christ , and of our union with him , of remission of sins , regeneration , adoption , and life eternall , it followes after , that the ●eed and posterity of the faithfull borne within the Church , have by their birth interest in the Covenant , and right to the Seale of it , and to the outward priviledges of the Church , &c. where the Directory makes a threefold interest : First interest in the Covenant . Secondly , right to the Seale of it . Thirdly , right to the outward priviledges of the Church , the Covenant , Seale , and outward Priviledges of the Church are put as distinct things , and the Covenant they have interest in , is the same Covenant of which Baptisme is a Seale , as is plaine by the Pronoune [ it ] which imports the same thing : Now Baptisme is before said to be the Seale of the Covenant of saving Graces , therefore the Covenant that the seed of Beleevers have interest in by their birth according to the Directory , is the Covenant of saving Graces . Which sith Master Marshall dares not assert , and Mr Geree saith is manifestly against Protestant principles , I wish it were as it ought to be laid to heart , and that the Assembly would remember that which they say Pag 30. of the answer to the Remonstrance of the seven dissenting Brethren . And it was further declared , that even in those things which the Assembly had voted , and transmitted to both Houses of Parliament ; yet we did not so leane to our own understandings , nor so prize our v●tes ; but that if these Brethren should hold forth such light unto us as might convince us of an errour : we should not only desire the Parliament to give us leave to revise our votes , but to revoke them , if there should be caus● . Which would indeed bring much honour to the Assembly , and knit the hearts of the godly to them : whereas through their silence at this time , this and some other things in the Directory about baptism passing uncorrected , & standing confirmed by Law , great disquiet to the Church of God , and the undoing or molesting of many godly persons , may follow when they cannot yeeld without sin to the Doctrine and practise of Baptisme as it is there set downe . This by the way . But Mr. Marshalls tells me pag. 1●0 . of his Defence , you cannot be ignorant how our Divines owne the outward administration of the Covenant under the notion of Foedus externum and the spirituall grace of it under the notion of Foedus internum : and that still I restraine the Covenant to the spirituall part onely ; and would perswade my reader , that they who speake of the Covenant of Grace , must meane it thus strictly ; and yet I bring not arguments to disprove a true visible membership upon a visible profession , whether the inward saving grace be known or not . To this I answer . I confesse I have met with that distinction of foedus externum & internum , in some Protestant writers , but not meeting with it in Mr Marshals Sermon , I had no occasion in my E●a●en to meddle with it but now I will declare my thoughts of it . I confesse that Circumcision is called the Covenant , Gen. 1● 13 ▪ by a me●onymy of the thing signified for the signe , as the text it selfe expounds it ; and I confesse that the Apostle Rom. 2. 28. distinguisheth of Circumcision outward in the flesh , and circumcision of the heart : but no where in Scripture doe I meet with the distinction of the outward and inward Covenant , nor doe I conceive the expression right . For if the distinction be only distinctio nominis , it should be thus , Covenant is taken either properly or improperly by a trope , and not Covenant is either outward or inward , if the distinction be distinctio rei : then there is some common notion of a Covenant thus distributed , and so the sense must be ; some Covenants , that is , promises ( for the nature of a Covenant is a mutuall or single promise ) are either externall or internall , and this may be understood either in respect of the making of the promise , and so it is not right for all promises in that sense are externall , none internall for afore it be declared by some transeunt act it is not a promise , but an intention or else it may be understood in respect of the thing promised , and it is confessed that God promiseth inward , and outward good things , and if this were the meaning I should not much except against it , though I should like it better to expresse it thus . The things covenanted are outward or inward , which is plain and easie to be understood , then to say , the Covenant is outward , or inward . But Mr Marshall by the outward Covenant means the outward administration of it , and by the inward Covenant the spirituall grace of it . According to which explication the distinction is not agreeable to Logick rules , nor can stand Mr Marshall in any stead , but to convince him of trifling and equivocating in his first argument , and two first conclusions . Trifling I say in his first argument . For the first argument was this . The infants of beleeving parents are foederati , therefore they must be signati . Now Mr Marshall will not have the antecedent understood of the inward Covenant , that is the spirituall grace ; he blames me for that , and he himselfe rejects it in that sense ; then the sense must be , the infants of beleeving parents are foederat● , that is in the outward Covenant of Grace , that is according to Mr Marshall in the outward administration of the Covenant . Now what is the outward administration he expresseth pag. 48. of his Sermon , calling Baptisme the new administration , and Circumcision the old . This then is Mr Marshals argument . The infants of beleevers are in the outward Covenant , that is , in the outward administration , meaning Baptisme or Circumcision ; this is the antecedent , the consequent or conclusion is , therefore they must be signati ; that is , baptized or circumcised . But is not this a meer inept tautology ; all one as to prove they must bebaptized , because they must be baptized ; all one as to argue , he must have ensem , because he must have gladium ; this is Pauls Epistle , because this is Pauls letter . I said equivocating . For by the Covenant Mr Marshall makes shew of one thing in the first conclusion , but meanes another in the second . For he had said conclusion the first , The Covenant of Grace for substance hath been alwayes the same , and pag. 10. he shewes wherein lies the substance of it ; to wit , the spirituall part ; now who would not have expected that the second conclusion should be meant of the same Covenant to wit the inward ; sith he sayes , pag. 26. The proving the two first conclusions gains the whole cause , if the Covenant be the same , and children belong to it , then they are to be owned as Covenanters ? yea , and his first text to prove the second conclusion , Acts 2. 39. he himselfe expounds it of Christ and saving benefits by him . But it seems Mr Marshal's heart failes him , he found that assertion too hot for him , though that be the ordinary assertion , in the Directory , in books and Sermons , insomuch that it is an usuall expression to say infants are confederates with their beleeving parents in the Covenant of Grace ; and therefore now , the second conclusion , that the children of beleevers belong to the Covenant of Grace , must be understood in another sense then as the Covenant of Grace is taken in the first conclusion , which is to equivocate . Yea further by reading Mr Marshalls defence , pag. 92. and elsewhere I suspect there is a farther equivocation in Mr Marshalls argument , which Mr Marshall it seems doth not perceive , divers expressions being by him taken as the same , which are not the same ; nor to be confounded . For , pag. 92. Mr Marshall speaks thus ; I concluded therefore that by Gods own will , such as enter into Covenant ought to receive the seale , which seems to be the Proposition by which the sequele of Mr Marshalls first argument is to be proved , so that he seems to frame the Syllogisme entirely thus . They that enter into Covenant ought to receive the seale , but the children of beleevers enter into Covenant , therefore they ought to receive the seale ; so that the minor seems to him to be all one with this Proposition : the children are foederati , which is elsewhere expounded of the outward Covenant , or the right to be baptized , but to have right to be baptized , is not all one with entring into Covenant . Entring into Covenant is some act farther then having of right ; for a person may have right to Baptism before he enters into Covenant . Mr Marshall should have heedfully distinguished the Covenant of Grace , which is Gods act in his promise of grace ; and belongs to none but those he hath made that promise to , and the outward administration , which is the administratours act ; and not have called it the Covenant , and the entring into Covenant with God , which is the act of the baptized , and cannot be done ordinarily by an infant , who is onely passive , and makes no promise at Baptisme ; and therefore cannot be rightly said to enter into Covenant with God. The want of such distinctnesse in expression serves for no other purpose but to puzzle a reader , and the very truth is , the argument which Mr Marshall , Mr Geree , Doctor Homes , &c. bring from the Covenant to the Seale for the baptizing Infants , if it be well sifted , is either a Tautology , or an equivocation ; as I may more abundantly shew , if ever I have liberty to examine their intangled discour●es . Now from hence he may know the reason why I still rest●aine the Covenant to the spirituall part only , which is , because I love to speake plainly without equivocation , and as the Scripture doth , and why I would perswade the Reader , that they who speake of the Covenant of Grace must meant it thus strictly , because I would have it thought they do not equivocate , but speake plainly . And for bringing arguments to disprove a true visible membership upon a visible profession , whether the inward grace be known or not , I marvell Master Marshall should expect this of me , who never denied a true visible membership upon a visible profession , whether the inward Grace be known or not , but in expresse termes granted it ; and therefore Master Marshall doth untruely charge me , when he saies Pag. 112. This mistake runs through your whole booke , that none are to be repu●●● to have a visible right to the Covenant of Grace , but only such as partake of the saving Graces of it . And yet Mr Marshall acknowledgeth Pag. 2●3 . of his Defence the contrary , when he saith , to all this you assent , and consequently that there is nothing needfull according to the Word , but a visible right . But Master Marshall addes ; and then what will become of all your pleading , That because we cannot know that all Infants of Beleevers have the inward Grace , we may not therefore baptize them . This Master Marshall makes all my pleading , but Master Marshall neither doth nor can shew that this is all or any part of my pleading . Master Marshall Pag. 222. hath these words : And as for that you adde , That Baptisme is to be administred , not to them who may have Grace , but to them who have it . Then it seemes they are all wrongly baptized who have not inward grace . But how doth this follow from my words , with any shew of right deduction ? That because I say , it is not enough that Baptism be administred to persons , in that they may have Grace , but it is to be administred to them that have it , that therefore it seemes they are all wrongly baptized who have not inward Grace , unlesse my speech had been , that it is to be administred to none but them that have it , which cannot be drawne from my words , till it be proved that every affirmative proposition is exclusive , which true Logick will disclaime . He that saith , A Coate is not a mans because he may buy it , but because he hath bought it ▪ doth not affirme that he only hath a Coate by right that hath bought it , for he may have right to it another way , viz. by legacy My pleading is , because we have no command , we cannot baptize Infants without will-worship according to ordinary rule , sith the command is only to baptize Disciples , or such as professe faith . I grant that if any be a reall actuall Beleever that cannot speake , yet if he professe the Faith by other signes , or God do reveale it for him he may be baptized by the force of Philips rule , Acts 8 38. and Peters speech , Acts 10 47. But he that saith , reall actuall Beleevers may be baptized , doth not thereby affirme that they only are to bee baptized . A proprio primo modo ad proprium secundo modo non valet argumentum . All Crowes are black , therefore only Crowes are black , is no good argument . Master Marshall tels me Pag 95. that he is confident , that I who durst baptize an Infant known to be regenerate , durst not give the other Sacrament to it ; because more is required to make them capable of that Sacrament , then is required to make them capable of Baptisme : a regenerate Infant I thin● is capable of thus : but besides regeneration , he is sure I will grant , that an examination of a m●ns selfe , and an ability to discerne the Lords Body , is required to 〈…〉 capable of that . To put him out of doubt , I say ; upon the same supposition that God should regenerate , and make an infant an actuall believer I should as soone give the Lords supper as baptisme to it , as conceiving that the same actuall faith that makes capable of the one makes capable of the other , and the same supernaturall extraordinary power that begets actuall faith can beget selfe examination and discerning the Lords body . And thus I have answered that accusation of spending a whole sheet of paper together in confuting what was never intended by my adversary , and have retorted this point of sophistry as more justly chargeable on himselfe . But Mr Marshall hath yet more of sophistry to charge me with , and thus he speakes pag. 3. of his defence . But first give me leave to observe your destructive artifice . It is the Socinians way to clude all texts of Scripture , which are urged against them , if they have been differently expounded by learned and godly men , ancient or moderne : to question all conclusions infer'd by consequence from Scriptu●e : to deride the testimonies of any of the Ancients by discovering the nakednesse , errour , and oversight of those reverend men : and by making themselves merry by turning the Orations , Epistles , or allusions of the Fathers into syllogismes , and by inserting of ergo now and then , to make all their rhetoricall passages seeme ridiculous . I appeal to the judicious reader , whither this plot be not carried through your Examen and exercitation . It is a very sad thing that brethren should thus yeeld either to their passion , or zeale of God but not according to knowledge ▪ so as to paint out their opponents in as ougly a forme as they can without cause . Mr Marshall appeales to the judisious reader , and I am very willing to accept of the appeale , provided that under the terme , Judicious reader , he do not meane one that is resolved to gainsay whatsoever is contrary to the streame of other reformed Churches ▪ or the present Synod , or that may endanger his present station , or carried away with prejudice , and passion . He desires le●ve to observe my destructive artifice . If he meane my skill to overthrow his arguments I confesse it , it was my businesse , if he meanes something else when he names it he may have an answer . He tels me what the Socinians way is , and would have it thought that is my way . For the Socinians way , I have read Mr Cheyuels discourse , but remember not that their way is described as Mr Marshall sets it downe . I have read very little either in Socinus , or any Socin●●n . In that which I have read I confesse I finde much shifting and impudence in eluding the scriptures urged against them , Christ●●nus Bermanus Ex●rcit . Theolog . 20. hath collected 38 examples hereof . I finde that they make little account of the testimonies of the Ancients , since the first Nicene Council in the point of Christs Deity , yet they alleage those afore the Nicene Council in that point , and sometimes others of the Ancients . But it is more easy for Mr Marshall to affirme then to prove any such So●man plot in my Examen or exercitation , though Mr Marshall could not but know , that an adversary could hardly shew more malice , and do more mischiefe to a man then by bringing him into suspicion as if he were of a Socinian spirit . He saies , it is the Socinian way to ●lude all Texts of scripture which are urged against them if they have been differently expounded by learned and godly men , ancient or modern . The truth is , though Socinians do use this art , yet their proper devise is , so farre as I have observed , to elude by new interpretations of their owne . But what one Text have I eluded in an , such manner ? If there be any , it is either 1 Cor. 7. 14. or Coloss . 2 ▪ 11 , 12. I or the first , though it is true I alleage eleven Authors expounding as I do , and might make a further addition , and there was great reason I should do it , because of the prejudice that was against my interpretation , yet that was not it which I rested upon , but the Analysis of the words , which being rightly stated , I found upon reason , to which neither Mr Marshall nor Mr Geree have yet answered , that the sense I gave must needs be right . And it was confessed to me by a learned man of the Assembly , that he thought matrimonial Holines was not all that was meant there , yet that I had sufficiently overthrowne that of federal Holines ▪ Mr Marshall though he have altered my method and forme in clearing that text , and so obscured my elucidations of it , yet could finde eight arguments there against his opinion . And for the other text it hath been shewed before that Mr Marshall confesseth my sense to be his sense . The truth is , my expositions of texts are in most of them so 〈◊〉 that Mr Marshal himselfe doth grant them , though he differ from me in the inferences from them . He saies further , it is the Socinians way to question all conclusions inf●rred by consequence from Scripture . This is the first time that ever I heard them to be charged with this ▪ but rather finde them by Mr Cheynel and others charged with assenting to nothing but what they could conceive rationall . I remember Docter Chalo●er in his Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam mentions this as the artifice of the Jesuites in France to stop the mouthes of Protestants by rejecting consequences , and requiring expresse texts , which being invented by Veron ▪ was called methodus V●roniana , the vanity of which is refuted by Vedelins in a treatise of his . I remember I saw a printed paper taken as it is sayd from the mouth of Captaine Paul Hobson against Infant baptisme , wherein was somewhat spoken against consequences , which I disclaime . Yea , I expresly say pag. 110. of my Ex●men , But I grant , that if you make it good , by good consequence , you may recover all . I confesse I do reject the consequence drawne from the command of Circumcision to baptisme by reason of analogy , and all such anologies as being vaine yet too much postering 〈◊〉 , and former writings and Sermons . It is the speech of Mr Rutherf●rd , due right of Presbyteries , Ch. 2. sect . 2. pag. 37. proportions are weake probations . But it is an overlashing to purpose in Mr Marshal to say , that I carry this Socinian plot through my examen and exercitation to question all conclusions infer'd by consequence from Scripture . Though Mr Marshal in this matter appeares not to be the man I tooke him to be , yet I hope he is not come to Calumn●are ●●d●cter . I presume the Judicious reader will judge , that Mr Marshal is bound to give me satisfaction for wronging my credit , of which he should be more tender , by so deep , & yet so palpable a false accusation . Mr Marshal makes this the Socinian way to deride the testimonies of the Ancients . Of what they do I can say little . But I challenge Mr Marshall to give one instance wherein I make my selfe meerly by turning the orations , epistles , or allusions of the Fathers into syllogismes , and by inferting of ergo now and then to make all their rhet●ricall passages seem ridiculous . As for derid●●g the testimonies of any of the Ancients by discovering the ●akednesse , &c. I do it no otherwise then the most approved Protestant writers Rivet , Perkins , Cooke , Jannes , Century-writers ▪ Chamire , Jewel , Reynolds , &c. yea and many of the Papists themselves , Sixtus S●●●sis , Bellarmine , &c. who usually disclaime some writings of the Ancients as spurious , and many speeches of the most approved as absurd and erroneous : yea , Mr Marshall himselfe in the points of infant Communion , rebaptization , necessity of Baptisme and Communion in his Defence , derides Cyprian and Augustine as much as I doe in my Examen in the point of Infant-Baptisme . Mr Marshall sayes my ma●ne faculty lies in the anascenasticall part , but that I bring not satisfying arguments to settle men in that I would have . But Mr Marshall might remember my businesse in my exercitation , and Examen is to discover the nullity of the pleas that are made for Infant-Baptisme , in which if I had done no more but overthrowne the proofes that are brought out of Scripture , it had been enough . Whereas I have further shewed upon erroneous grounds it was taught of old , and what abuses haue followed it : which surely Smect●mnuus , and Dawlphintramis in their pleading against Ep●sc●pacy and Liturgy thought sufficient ; however in this point Mr Marshall censures my exercitation and examen as insufficient . When Smectymnuus had disputed down Episcopacy and Liturgy , they conceived they had done their part , though they referred it to the Synod to consult how to setle Church Government and worship . And why should not my disputing be thought edifying to the Church of God by overthrowing an errour and abuse , which will in time be found worse then Episcopacy and Liturgy , though I take not upon me to direct how Baptisme is to be reduced to the right way , neverthelesse when I am duly required to declare my opinion either about the nullity of Poedobaptisme as it is used , or the way of reducing Baptisme to its right use , whether according to conscience or prudence which I doubt not but may be done in time without necessity of separation , turning seekers , or popular tumult , though for the present generation by reason of preingage-ments , mens spirits are very averse from it , ) I shall be willing to doe it , as being resolved ; notwithstanding the unkind usage I have found , yet to remember my Covenant and account to God. And as I have not hitherto , so neither I hope in God ever shall foster any Crypticall Divinity , of which I need be ashamed to bring it into light , or which should justly cause men to be jealous of me as a dangerous person likely to trouble the Church , though unbrother-like Mr Marshall pag. 76. endeavours to represent me as if I were one that had need to be watched . He talkes not in a letter to me in private , but in print , of my high and scornfull spirit , but how justly may appeare by this Apology . He tells me , I magisterially tread down under foot the arguments and reasons which others conceive strong . But it will be hard for Mr Marshall to shew where I tread down any thing magisterially , that is without cogent reasons ; and such , as were it not for his mistakes of my reasons , he himselfe would be forced to subscribe to them . As for questioning so boldly some Doctrines which have never been q●●stioned before , I suppose he meanes it of that which I said Pag. 23. of my Examen about rebaptization , which Master Marshall saies doth clearly discover my itch after new opinions , Pag. 67. of his Defence , and that which I say Pag 85. of my Examen , concerning the question , whether an unbaptized person may in no case ea●● the Lords Supper , this Master Marshall Pag. 167. of his Defence , numbers amongst my freakes and out-leapes , and saies is a spice of my itch after singular opinions . But Master Marshall might have observed , that in the former , I gave the reason of what I said , because it goes so curr●n , that rebaptization is not only an errour , but also an Heresie ; plainly shewing there was a necessity that cryed out against the Anabaptists as Heretikes , to bring a demonstrative reason to prove it unlawfull to baptize againe him that had been rightly baptized . For I presume , hat as King Iames censured Cardinall Peron for making a kind of problematicall Martyrs , calling them Martyres that dyed in maintenance of a point not certain whether it were de ●ide , so it is as absurd for our Preachers to make problematicall Hereticks , by declaiming and exciting the Magistrate against those as Hereticks , of whom it is uncertaine whether they hold an errour or no. As for Master Marshals reasons , they are not convincing to me , nor is the holding rebaptization such a new opinion as he would make it . And for the other it is no out-leape , but a question that lay in my way by reason of Master Marshals words , and exceeding necessary to be resolved , considering that otherwise those Ministers and people that cannot agree about the validity of Infant-baptisme , or adult-baptisme , supposed not to be rightly done , for want of a right Ministery , or power to give the Spirit , or the manner of it's administration , must of necessity separate from Communion in the Lords Supper for this reason , because none is to be admitted to the Lords Supper till he be rightly baptized : which I professe is to be stood upon in point of prudence for right order ; yet if it be stood upon in point of conscience , so as in no case the contrary is to be permitted , it will of necessity make many superstitious perplexities in Ministers , and inferre many an unnecessary Schisme , this being not a sufficient reason for a refusall of Communion , because a Godly person takes his baptisme to be right , though I know the contrary . Nor do I thinke the thing either such a new opinion or practise . For besides , that it may be doubted whether all the Apostles were baptized , as suppose Matthew ( which is as probable for the negative as the affirmative ) yet were admitted to the Lords Supper by Christ himselfe : when Constantine the Great and others did differre their baptisme so long , it is not likely they never received the Lords Supper afore their baptisme . Nor is it inconsistent with my grants : For what though I grant that Baptisme is the way and manner of solemne admission into the Church , meaning the regular way , yet it followes not that none may receive in any case afore baptized . Mr Marshall holds Ordinatination by a Presbytery is the regular way of solemne admission into the office of publike Preaching , and it may be fit by an Ecclesiasticall Canon to order it so ; yet I thinke it will not be denied , but that there may be cases , wherein a person may lawfully be a publike Preacher without such ordination . The other grant which Master Marshall saies is mine , was never expressed by me so rawly as he laies it downe . It is not as he puts it downe , that nothing is to be doue about the Sacraments , whereof we have not either institution or example : but as Master Marshall might have perceived if he had heeded my words , Examen , Pag. 28. Pag. 110. Pag. 152. That no positive worship , or essentiall , or substantiall part of it , is to be done without institution by precept , or Apostolicall example , I never denied , that many things pertaining to circumstance and order may be done about the Sacraments without either , and of this kind I conceive Baptizing afore eating the Lords Supper to be . As for itch after new opinions , why are not Doctor Twisse , and Master Gataker , and indeed all that cleere truth more fully then others , censured in the like manner ? I wish if my words would take any impression on him , that Master Marshall would forbeare thus judging least he be judged . I thinke I know my selfe better then Master Marshall , and I told him , my reall intention was to discover truth , yea all my wayes shew me free from this itch after new opinions , though I professe my selfe an impartiall searcher of truth , ●●llius addictū jurare in verba ●agistri , no not to the determinations of the Assembly . May it not with better reason be said , they have an itch after new opinions , who hold that without power to suspend all scandalous persons from the Lords Supper , a man cannot with a good conscience be a Pastour , that without this power the Church of Christ is to be suspended from the Lords Supper many yeares , &c. And for fleighting of authors , I have answered it already . There is yet another Charge , as if I should alleadge Authors against their mind . As first Master Daniel Rogers . I said Master Daniel Rogers in his Treatise of the Sacrament of Baptisme , Part. 1. Pag. 79. confessed himselfe unconvinced by demonstration of Scripture for it . Master Marshall writes to Master Daniel Rogers , he answers in these words : If I were to answer that Anabaptist , I should answer 〈◊〉 silen●io , & contemptu : for why should I not ? since in that very place of my Sacrament , Part. 1. Pag. 78. 79. where I confute thos● Schosmaticks , he 〈◊〉 my words from their own Defence : My words are , I confesse my self unconvinced by any demonstration of Scripture for ●●●dabaptisme , meaning by any positive Text ; what is that to helpe him ? except I thought there were no other arguments to ●vince it : now what I thinke of that , my next words shew , Pag. 77. line 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. I need 〈◊〉 transcribe them . In a word , this I say , though I know 〈◊〉 , yet that is no argument for the non-baptizing of Infants , since so many Scriptures are sufficiently convincing for it . Therefore this want of a 〈◊〉 Text must no more exclude Infants , &c. then the like reason should disa●ull a Christian Sabbath , or women kind not to be partakers of the Supper : The quoting of mine owne text were enough . I will set down his words as I find them , that the Reader may judge whether there be truth in it , that I have snatched his word● from their own Defence , and whether he did not oppose demonstration of Scripture to ●●●ritt●n tradition . The words are thus : I say this for the setling of such as are not wilful , that 〈◊〉 take the baptism of Infants to be one of the most reverend , generall and uncontrouled traditions which the Church ha●h , and which I would no losse doubt of then the Creed to be Apostolicall . And although I confesse my selfe yet unconvinced by demonstration of Scripture for it , yet first sithence Circumcision was applied to the Infants the eighth day in the Old Testament : Secondly there is no words in the New Testament to infringe the liberty of the Church in it , nor speciall reason why we should bereave her of it . Thirdly , sundry Scriptures affoord some friendly proofes by consequent of it . Fourthly , the holinesse of the child ( externall and visible ) is from their parents , who are ( or ought to be ) chatechised confessors , penitents , and Protestants in truth ( which priviledge only open revolt disables them from ) therefore I say , the Seed being holy , and belonging to the Covenant , the Lord graciously admits them also to the Seale of it in Baptisme . If Master Marshall please he may write backe to his reverend and learned friend , that the supposed Anabaptist thinks his plaister too narrow for the sore , that he seems to eate his own words , that his words help me to shew that he once thought it indeed one of the most reverend , generall , and uncontroled traditions which the Church hath , and which he would no lesse doubt of , then the Creed to be Apostolicall , which if he meane it of the Creed called the Apostles as it is now , Parker in his booke de descensu ad inferos , and others have shewed to have been made long after the Apostles dayes , and the tale of their meeting to compose it , in the exposition on the Creed , attributed to Ruffinus , or some other to be of no credit . And for Scripture , Master Rogers findes but friendly proofes , somewhat like Bellarm●nes pie & probabiliter credi potest , and that there is no word in the New Testament to infringe the liberty of the Church in it : which if Master Rogers can satisfie himself with , he may , I professe I dare not so play with my own conscience , and I thought this was fit to be told Master Marshall , to shew that I was not the only man that questioned , whether his proofes for Infant-baptisme were so undeniable as he would have them ; and that 's enough to shew the unreasonablenes of the violence of his spirit against those that differ from him . And for his Quaere why he should not answer me , silentio & contemptu : I presume Master Marshall hath long since done that office of a friend to tell him it is written Rom. 14. 10. Why doest thou set at at naught thy brother ? I had said not as Mr Marshall repeats it , Master Ba●l cuts the sinewes of the argument from Circumcision , but , me thinkes Mr Balls words cut the sinewes of that argument . And so they do plainly . For if however Circumcision and Baptisme agree or differ wee must looke to the institution , and the agreement is not enough to conclude , that Baptisme belongs onely to members in Church-Covenant , and their children , because it was so in Circumcision without an institution , as the new England Elders reason , by the same reason however Baptisme and Circumcision agree or differ : yet Baptisme will not belong to Infants , because Circumcision did so by vertue of proportion , without an institution , which if Mr Ball or Mr Marshall could shew , they needed not trouble us with the Command about Circumcision of male infants , to prove Infant-Baptisme , which is indeed to maintain that the ceremoniall saw still binds , which is plain Judaisme . But what sayes Mr Marshall to this ? If Mr Marshall cut the sinewes of the argument from Circumcision to Baptisme , himselfe was very much mistaken in his his own meaning and intention , because in the same place he makes them parallell in this , and I might have done well to have informed the reader so much . I was told , there was a very intelligent man that said he was sorry that I had Mr Marshall for my Antagonist , as knowing him to be apt to mistake , which he conceived would be a vexation to me , and indeed I find his words true . For whereas I said only Mr Ball 's words , cut the sinewes of that argument ; M. Mar. mistakes it as if I had said , Mr Ball intends to cut the sinews of that argument , and that then he was mistaken in his own meaning and intentions . I confesse it were a very strange thing to charge so understanding a man as Mr Ball with such a mistake of his owne meaning and intention : but it is no such strange thing for a learned man to speak that which may be brought to inferre the contrary to that he intended , and if this be to abuse men , then all arguments by retortion are abuses . Bellarmin l. 5 de justificatione c. 7 prop. 3. had said , propter incertitudinem propria justitiae & periculum inanis gloriae tutissimum est totam fiduciam in sola Dei misericordiae & benignitate repouere . This King James in his Apologie for the oath of Allegiance brings to prove that he overthrowes thereby all his former dispute about inherent righteousnesse , though Bellarmine had put in a speciall caution in the next words to prevent that inference , and King James left out that caution in the recitall , yet Bishop Andrewes in his Torturae Torti , and many other learned men justified King James , and that rightly . Mr Marshall , pag , 147. saith thus . And I am sure you must agree with me . Sixthly , that of all these testimonies you have cited out of Chamier , there is not one word against my interpretation , or for the justification of yours ; yea and I kn●w also that you will agree with me Seventhly that the learned Chamier in a large dispute doth confute your interpretation and vindicate my interpretation , as the onely true and proper meaning of this text even in that very pla●e , where you quote him . And therefore I know the reader will agree with mee ( whether you doe cr●● ) that you doe but abuse your Authour and Reader both , in making a flourish with Chamiers name nothing to the purpose , and thereby would m●ke the Reader to conceive Chamier to be of your side , when he is point-blanke against you . And in the same page . First you severall times 〈◊〉 the learned Beza as if he were of your m●nd in the interpretation of this text , to construe it of matrimoniall holinesse . I confesse the cause depends not upon Beza's judgement , but your reputation depends much upon ●●king this good , that you should dare to 〈◊〉 Authour as interpreting it for you , who interprets it exprofesso against you . p. 159. I perswade my self you are by this time ashamed of your impertinent quotation , I assure my selfe if you be not , your friends are p. 157. But Sir why do you thus frequently abuse your Readers with the names of learned men , inserting some one sentence of theirs into your booke , and thereby insinuating to your Reader , th● they are of your opinion in the point wherein you cite them ? I assure you , it concernes your conscience as well as your cause , to be thus often taken tardy . Mr Geree vindic . Poedobaptism . pag. 22. which you expresse in Beza's words , but against Beza's mind . pag. 28. And therefore I wonder you should so of 〈◊〉 alle●ge an Author impertinently especially such an one as is punctually and 〈◊〉 against you . To all this I answer . If Mr Marshall could have shewed that I had either falsified the words or wrested their meaning , he had said something : but to tell me , because I alleage the words of authors according to their meaning , to prove the contrary to that they ho●d , therefore I ab●●se them ; and inf●● 〈◊〉 ●o the Reader that they art of my mind , or side , when they are point blanke against me , or that my allegation is ●●pertinent 〈…〉 is so frivolous a charge , that it deserves no other answer , then Mr. 〈◊〉 own words out of Horace , pag. 294. 〈…〉 ashamed of my impertinent quotation● , it is because Mr Marshall and Mr Geree have misrepresented them , otherwise those my quotations are every one of them pertinent to the particular point I alleage them for , and not yet answered by Mr Geree or Mr Marshall . And I confesse I cannot but smile at Mr Marshalls conceit of me , when he sayes . And I am sure you must agree with me . Sixthly , that 〈◊〉 all these testimonies you have cited out of Chamier , there is not one word against my interpretation or for the justification of yours ; as if I were another Claudi● to subscribe to my own condemnation : which if I doe in this thing , he may well beg me for a foole . It is untruly ascribed to me that I cite Beza , as if he were of my mind in the interpretation of 1 Cor. 7. 14. to construe it of matrimoniall holinesse . For whereas I did distinctly explain first the term sanctified in the forepart of the verse & then the terms unclean & holy in the later ( which M. Marshall confounding in his defence ; & to putting all my arguments together to the number of eight , as he multiplies them , & not sorting them as I did , hath made his answers colourable , but indeed misleads the unwary Reader ) and though I knew Beza to disagree from me in expounding the term [ holy ] which I had expressely set down , pag. 16. of my exercitation ; and therefore never intended to abuse the Reader , or to insinuate that he was of my side , in the expounding the latter part of the verse , yet he expounds the first part with me of matrimoniall sanctification , and so I said , pag. 73 57 , of my Examen , not that Beza did construe it of matrimoniall holines , but matrimoniall sanctification ; which I should wonder Mr Marshall did not consider being so plainly and necessarily distinguished by me , but that distemper of body or mind , or hast to prevent the studying of my book by crying it down ( the like whereto may be said of Doctor Homes and Mr Geree ) made him compose his answer a●ore hee had well studied my book . As for Chamier I did , pag. ●6 . expressely say his opinion was for federall holinesse . Do federal● illa sanctitate quid decom●verit 〈◊〉 mentem Chemiro Calvino , &c. and yet I need not be ashamed to bring his own words against his own tenet , no more then King James to bring Bellarmines words against him , or Bishop Morton to bring the Bapists words against them , or Mr Marshall himselfe to bring my words against me , but rather indeed it is most commendable to bring an authors words to refute his own opinion as being a most cogent and pertinent way of disputing . And for Aretius pag. 92. of my Examen , I used this very expression [ sayes rightly in this ] intimating that though he agree with M. Marshall in his inference from Col. 2. 11. 12. yet those words which I cited , and that rightly , served to overthrow Mr Marshall's reason , from whence their inference is gathered . And therefore it concernes Mr Marshall's conscience as well as his cause to be thus often taken tardy in false accusations , & insinuations against me . As for that he tells me of Aretius his opinion there and elsewhere , it is indeed a meer impertinency ; sith I never denied Aretius to be of his opinion , and therefore if I may use his own phrase , pag. 147. he doth but bumbast his booke to no purpose . And here I cannot but take notice , that whereas Master Marshall had charged in the first use of his Sermon the Anabaptists with a rash and bloudy sentence condemning all the infants of the whole Church of Christ , as having nothing to doe with the Covenant of Grace or the seale of it , and then aggravates it as like Hazaels act , I said , pag. 170. of my Examen , till you produce some testimonies of those you call Anabaptists so determining , I shall take it to be but a false accusation , and a fruit of passion , not of holy zeale . Mr Marshall both pag. 5. and pag. 243. of his Defence , saith thus . I compared not their intentions with his , but the fruits of their principles casting all beleevers children , as much out of the covenant of Grace as they doe the children of Turks and Pagans ; and this I am sure they doe , and your selfe joyne with them who acknowledge no more promise for the children of beleevers , then for the child●en of the Turkes , and leave them to have their actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill . In this reply Mr Marshall brings no testimony out of the Anabaptists writings to prove them guilty of that rash , and bloody sentence he doth in expresse termes charge them with ; suppose Mr Marshall should be able ( which I am assured he cannot do ) to prove by consequence that by their principles , they condemne all the infants of the whole Church of Christ , as having nothing to doe with the Covenant of Grace , or the Seale of it ( which were the words of his Sermon pag. 52. though in his defence he alter the words to mince the matter ) yet Davenan●● exhorts to brotherly communion , Ch. 12. Gataker vindication against Walker , and many other cry out against it as most unreasonable to accuse men of that sentence which themselves disclaime , because it followes from their principles by remote consequence , much more in downright termes to say , they passe a bloody sentence , and condemn all the infants of beleevers . If it should follow from their principles , yet M. Marshall were not acquitted from rashnes , false accusation and passion in those his speeches . I have proved from Mr Marshall's principle , pag. 35. of his Sermon that all Gods commands and institutions about the Sacraments of the Jewes bind us as well as they did them in all things which belong to the substance of the Covenant , and were not accident all to them , that it inferres an obligation to all the Mosaicall ceremonies , and consequently Judaisme ; yet Mr Marshall would not think it equall I should charge him with Judaisme , and then make a declamation against him as turned Jew , and preaching Judaisme , and to be abandoned by Christians as going about to make them Jewes . Why then doth Mr Marshall deale so with others ? I know Mr. Marshall pag. 198. of his defence , endeavours to justifie his principle : he tells me , that his meaning never was to assert the practise of the rituall part in the least particle , but that there is a generall nature , end and use in which they are agree ; which is to answer just nothing . For the question was concerning the commands of the Jewes whither they bind , and particularly whither the command of circumcising infants bind us virtually ; now all the commands are about the practise of the rituals , and if they bind they are still in force : the generall nature is conteined in the definition , which is aeternae v●ritatis , and expressed in an enunciation , and is not commanded but declared , and so is the generall end and use to be known and beleeved , not to be practised : but commands are orationes non enunciativ● , never of the generall nature , but of particular acts . Who did ever talke of a command that a man should be animal rationale , or of a Sacrament that it should be a Seale of the Covenant ? 2. Mr. Marshall tells us he did not compare the Anabaptists and Hazaels intentions , but the fruit of their principles . The truth is , Mr Marshall did not compare their intentions , nor the fruit of their principles , with Hazaels act ; but their bloud● sentence with his act . As for ●●sting out of the Covenant of Grace , indeed and before God , no promise or errour of ours can doe it , were our intentions never so malicious , the malice of men cannot nullifie the faith of God. As for casting out in their sentence , I conceive it suspends any judgement of them ; we can neither say they are in or out : yea , I say again if all be examined , Mr Marshall puts them as much out as we , unlesse Mr Marshall understand no more by the Covenant of Grace then Baptisme , which though Mr Marshall may doe in a popular auditory , which cannot discern between chalke and cheese , yet me thinks he should forbeare to doe it in print , in a treatise dedicated to the Assembly of Divines . But I wonder the lesse at Mr Marshalls rashnesse in accusing the Anabaptists , when he is not ashamed to tell me thus , pag. 238 of his defence . It is your judgement that all infants , even of beleevers as well as Pagans , though they may potentially belong to the Kingdome of Christ , yet actually they belong to the Kingdome of the Devill ; which I am sure he no where findes in my writings , but to the contrary in divers passages , as exercit . pag. 24. But saith Mr Marshall , you acknowledge no more promise for the children of beleevers , then for the children of Turks . This matter I had disputed at large , part . 2. § . 10 of my Examen , and to mitigate the odium which popular preachers cast on us by this Allegation I had said , so doth the opinion of Cyprian with his 66 Bishops that would have Gods grace denied to none : and therefore his opinion puts all the infants of beleevers in the same condition with Turks children . To this saith Mr Marshal pag. 85. of his def●●ce , which I have shewed , will not follow out of the words of the Epistle . Now that I conceive he means he had formerly shewed is pag. 41 in these words , though he layes it downe in generall termes that none are to be hindred from comming to Christ : yet what he sayes ought to be understood of the Church , because he speakes of such as God hath cleansed or purified , who were common : which passage I should sooner have expected from a Jesuit then Mr Marshal , to say that Cyprian ought to be understood of the Church , when the words nulli hominum nato misericordiam Dei & gratium denegandam , & nulla anima perdenda est ; are as expresse as may be , that he means it of any that are born of mankind , that the grace of God is not to be denied them . And after , omnem omnino hominem ad 〈◊〉 Christi admittendum esse , and the reason he useth is not from a cleansing proper to the Church , but because all men are equall , quando 〈◊〉 Deo semel facti saint , as he that reades the Epistle , will presently perceive I alleaged also the words of the Grave confutation of the Brownists published by Mr Rathband , to shew not that which Mr Marshall it seems intended , which was to charge all the Anabaptists of putting all the children of beleevers out of the Covenant of Grace as the Turks children , but to shew that the opinion of paedobaptisme as some assert it , doth put all the infants of beleeve●s into the selfe-same condition with the infants of Turkes and indians ( which were Mr Marshal●s words ) by putting all of them alike into the Covenant of Grace . For if they may be lawfully accounted within Gods Covenant , if any of their Ancestours in any generation were faithfull , and that because of Gods promise ; Exod. 20. 5. then the children of Turks are lawfully accounted within the Covenant , yea all the infants in the world , for it is not beyond the thousandth generation to Noah . Mr Marshal tells me that hee supposeth I do not think those words , Exod 20. 5. were intended to intimate that all the children in the world ; who came from Ad●m 〈◊〉 Noa● were intended in the Covenant of Grace , nor that I beleeve Mr Rathband thought so . What Mr Rath . thought I know not but his words import so much , and if that was not intended , the text was impertinently alleaged ; and though it is true I do not think with them , yet I might 〈◊〉 alleage their words which I approve not , to shew this is no such 〈◊〉 , which Mr Marshall called 〈◊〉 great mischiefe , that by the Anti-p●dobaptists opinion , all the children of beleevers should be put into the some condition with the children of Tarkes ; sith the same followes on the 〈…〉 doctrine also . I had also Examen , part . 2. § . 10. set down my opinion freely in 4 Propositions about the parity of condition of the Turks and our infants , and told Mr Marshall thus possibly if you open your selfe plainly , there will be no difference between us . Mr Marshal in his Defence neither plainly opens himselfe , wherein he puts the difference , nor sets down my answer justly , but leaves out wholly the the fourth Proposition , or confounds it with the third ; and other wise mangles and alters my words in his abridgement , that they are much unlike what I delivered . For instance , pag. 85 he sets down this for my second proposition . That I know no more promise for beleevers children , then for the children of 〈…〉 whereas my words 〈◊〉 the●e . For the Covenant or Promise of Grace , that is righteousnesse and life as Christ , though I acknowledge a peculiar promise to Abrahams naturall posterity mentioned , Rom. 11. 27. yet I know not that God hath made such a Covenant to any , much lesse to all the naturall beleeving seed of any beleeving Gentile ; and Propos . 3. I say , they have some promises , though generall indefinite and conditionall . And I mean by generall and indefinite , such as determine not the kind of good promised , nor the particular person ; and therefore are true , if performed to any persons in any sort of good . and conditionall upon condition of faith and obedience , as , when it is said the generation of the righteous shall be blessed , his righteousnesse to childrens children , to such as keep his Covenant . Ps . 103. 17. 18. Ps . 112. 2. &c. I tell Mr Marshall if he can shew any more promises then I doe , I shall count them a treasure , if not , why doth he endeavour to make me and my opinion odious to the people , as if I put all the children of the whole Church out of the Covenant of Grace , as I doe the children of the Turkes ; and acknowledge no more promise for the one , then for the other : whereas when he hath said as much as he can for them , he can bring no more promise for them then I doe , nor dares reject the limitations I restraine them by ? But sayes Mr Marshall , you leave them to have their actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill . I ask whither the children have actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill afore they are baptized or not ? If he say they have not , then by not baptizing , I leave them not in the visible kingdome of the Devill , they are out of the visible kingdome of the Devill , though they be not baptized : if he say they have their actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill afore they are baptized , then how is it true which the Protestants disputing against Bellarmin alleage against the necessity of baptizing infants to salvation , that the children of beleevers are holy afore baptisme . The truth is , I neither leave infants in the Devills , nor Gods visible kingdome : for I conceive they are in neither kingdom visibly till they declare by their profession to whom they belong visibly . Mr Marshall used often this expression of belonging to the visible kingdom of the Devill , and I told him Examen pag. 41. I feared he did it ad faciendum populum , to move the people , by affrighting them by a bug-beare word , if they keep their children from baptisme , then they leave them to have an actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill , or to please them by making them beleeve that by baptisme their children are put out of the visible kingdome of the Devill . This I said not judging his heart , but being jealous least it was so ; and I confesse I am still suspicious he doth so , because he still useth it after he hath been told it , and it is a meer engine to stirre popular affections . For how hath the unbaptized infant an actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill ; unlesse it be true that all unbaptized persons have an actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill , which is false in the Catechumeni of old , the converted theefe on the Crosse , Constantine the Great , and many others who were in the visible kingdom of the Christ afore they were baptized . On the other side , thousands of people in America baptized by the Spaniards , had as visible standing in the Devills kingdome as before . I confesse when the baptized professeth the faith of Christ , then baptisme is a note of a visible member , and a distinguishing badge between the people of God and the Devill , and so by baptisme a person is exhibited a member of the Church , but otherwise I see no reason why an infant that makes no profession of Christ , should be counted after baptisme a visible member of the Church more then before . Let a child of a Christian be baptized , and after being an infant , and taken by a Turke , be circumcised , wherein is that child more a visible member of the Church of Christ then a Turkes child , or is hee not rather a member of the Church of Mahomet , then of Christ ? Are the Janizaries any whit the more Christians because they were baptized infants of Christian Greekes ? Protestant writers are wont to define the visible Church of Christians a number of persons that professe the faith of Christ . So Art. 19 of the Church of England , and all sorts of Protestant writers . Now that which makes the visible Church , makes each member a visible member , and that is profession . Baptisme and the Lords Supper ; and hearing , are notes as they signify profession , otherwise if a person be baptized , if he should heare or receive the Lords Supper , and did not professe the faith , he should not be a visible member for all that . I confesse I have met with some writings which put Baptisme into the definition of the Church , as necessary to the being of a visible Church , and the words in the Confession of Faith of the 7 Churches of Anabaptists about London [ being baptized into that faith ] Artic. 33. are somewhat doubtfull , though they seem rather to import that Baptisme is necessary to the right order of a Christian Church , then to the being of a Church ; and I confesse they that hold that members are added to the Church by Baptisme and not otherwise , and hold a nullity of Paedo baptisme , must needs say the Churches that have no other then Infant-Baptisme , are no true Churches ; nor their members Church-members , as Master Ma●shall sayes pag. 84. of his Defence ; and so voluntary separation necessary . But these points of the necessity of right Baptisme , not onely to the right order , but also to the being of a visible Church and Church-member , and so voluntary separation barely for the defect of it , I have ever disclaimed ; as considering the many errours and ill consequences that would follow thereupon , and though provocations still increase , yet I have in my practise shunned separation from my disenting brethren , and I presume though Mr Marshall count right Baptisme a necessary duty , yet he will be more advised then to make it essentiall , either constitutivè or consecutivè to the being of a Church or Christian either visible or invisible , for feare of giving too much advantage to Separatists , and Seekers . I suppose in reference to the present point this is the truth , that however every infant is either in the invisible kingdome of God or Satan , that is , elect or reprobate ; yet no child till hee make profession doth visibly belong either to the one , or to the other . I acknowledge that in the visible Church of the Jewes , the infants were reckoned to the Church , and the reason was from the peculiar Church-state of the Jewes . For then God took the whole family of Abraham together in one day , and after the whole nation of the Jewes , were but one Church or congregation : Acts 7. 28. and accordingly appointed one Tabernacle and Altar , and one high Priest , and solemne feasts for all to meet as and one nation all ●●adge , circumcision ; and hee erected them into one policy , because he would have one fixed people among , and 〈◊〉 whom the Massiah should come ; and therefo●● he so provided , that their tribes should be distinguished , their inheritance divided , and many 〈…〉 which he did not either then 〈◊〉 appoint to any other people . And this Church-state Circumcision was applyed to , so that if Master Marshall and Master Geree will conclude from Rom. 11. 17. &c. that we must have our children baptized , because they had theirs circumcised we being ingraffed into their room , they must not only prove that the Gentile-beleevers are grafted into the invisible Church in place of the Jewes ( which is the Apostles sense there notwithstanding , that which M. Geree , or Master Marshall have said ) nor that the Gentile visible Churches are graffed into the visible Church in the place of the Jewes : but they must also prove that the Gentiles are taken into the same outward Church state which the Jewes ●ad . But that is most false . For now God gathers not a whole nation together , nor hath appointed one Temple Altar , Priest , &c. as he did to the Jews : but he gathers now by preaching , some here , some there , and the visible Church hath now no such policy or outward government as the Jewes had then : and therefore there is not the same reason of infants belonging to the visible Church of the Gentiles as they did to the Jewes , except one can prove that we are to have the same outward face and constitution of the Church which they had , which Papists and others imagining have corrupted the Church , and baptizing of infants ariseth out of the same Jewish conceit . Master Marshall had alleaged in his Sermon Rom. 11. 16. &c. to prove his second conclusion . I complained in my Examen of the obscurity of his inference , shewed him how ambiguous his words were . He takes this as if it were done in scorne , and as an artifice to darken an argument , but doth not mend the matter in his Defence . For 1. pag. 134. whereas I distinguished of graffing in , that it may be either by faith , or profession of faith ; or by some outward Ordinance : Master Marshall in the repetition leaves out this last member , which is not right dealing . 2. Whereas I had said ; The thing that is to be proved is , that all the infants of every beleever are in the Covenant of free Grace in Christ , and by veriue thereof to be baptised . Master Marshall pag. 135. of his D●fence denies this , though it seemed plaine to me , that this text was brought to prove his second conclusion , which I took to bee the same with the antecedent of his Enthymeme , or first argument ; and that I did conceive had this sense , that all the infants of every beleever are in the Covenant of free Grace in Christ , otherwise his first argument is but nugatory , the antecedent and conclusion being the same ; and he equivocates in his two first conclusions , understanding the first conclusion of the covenant of saving Grace in Christ , the other of the outward Covenant as hee calls it , as I shewed above : which serves for no better end then to delude a reader . But pag. 135. he saith thus ; The thing to be proved from this text is , that our infants have the same right which the infants of the Jewes had , pag. 140 The thing to be proved was , our infants have the same priviledge with theirs ; yet in the same page he thus formeth the conclusion , and therefore we and they making up the same body are taken in upon the same ground , our children with us , as well as theirs with them : which last conclusion I do not take to be the same with the former , nor any one of them the same , with the other or with the antecedent of Mr Mar. second argument , or his second conclusion , 3. It is yet uncertain to me what is the medium he would prove his conclusion by out of that text . In his Defence in three places he calls his confused heap of Dictates his argument to wit , pag. 134. The Apostles scope was to shew that we Gentiles have now the same graffing into the true olive which the Jewes formerly had ; and our present graffing in is answerable to their present casting out , and their taking in at the latter end of the world , shall be the same graffing [ though more gloriously ] as ours is now ; and it is apparent that at their first taking in , they and their children were taken in , at their casting out they and their children were broken off ; and when they shall be taken in againe at the end of the world , they and their children shall be taken in together , and all by vertue of the Covenant , Ero Deus tuus , &c. which is the same to us , and to them ; we and they making up the Church of God. In the same page in these words . Looke how the Jewes children were graffed in , so are our children , we are taken instead of them who were cast out , and becom on visible Kingdom of Christ with the rest of them who kept their station , pag. 140. We as they , were tak●n in ; they and their children shall be at the last taken in again , as they were at the first : and therefore we and they making up the same body are taken in upon the same ground , our children with us as well as theirs with them . Which though hee calls his argument , and sayes it hath a plaine sense , yet I see so many ambiguities still in his words , his speeches so informe or shapelesse , that I know not well whither he would make many syllogismes or one , nor which to call the major , which the minor Proposition or terme , or which the medium ; and I must professe I find Mr Marshall still so confused a disputer , that I know not to what purpose his manner of writing in this point should tend , but to puzzle his reader , and weary his respondent . And sith he was told of this , p. 56. of my Examen , and desired to mend it in his next writing ; yet instead of mending it , he puts it off lightly , pag. 125. of his Defence , a person may suspect it is done on purpose to puzzle , rather then to satisfy . For why should a man that would clear truth in a point of dispute , though in a Sermon ad populum ; especially when his auditory is such as it was at Westminster Abby , be unwilling to make a syllogisme in mood and figure ? did not Master Marshall make sundry syllogismes in the same Sermon ? And would not a short syllogisme after a distinct short paraphrase , have better cleared the truth then such a confused heap of words he useth in his alleaging , Rom. 11. 16. &c. And Acts 2. 39. However what reason or excuse he can pretend for not doing it in his Defence , I see not . Mr Geree in his vindiciae Paedo-baptismi , ch . 1. sect . 3. goes somewhat more distinctly to work , yet neither doth he frame a syllogisme from Rom. 11 11. 12. 13. 17. 18. &c. nor doe I know how he would have it framed . He saith , the conclusion to be proved is , that the ch●ldren of Christians have the same priviledge with children of Jewes , as they were comprehended so under the Covenant with their parents as to be reputed members of the same visible kingdome , and to be sealed with them . This conclusion I deny if it be understood of the outward priviledge belonging to the Jewish Church in that state it was afore Christs comming . To prove it he layes down four Proprositions , and deduceth four con●ectaries , but how he shews not . The third is ambiguous , and if he mean by [ into the place of the Iewes cut off ] the same Church-state , and by [ partaking of their priviledge● ] the priviledges belonging to their Church - 〈◊〉 as I think he doth , it is to denied , and so likewise his second and third consectary in that sense . Nor doth either Rom. 11. 17. prove it as shall be presently shewed , nor is a beleeving Jew a looser by the coming of Christ in regard of his seed , sith this was a peculiar priviledge in the time of that Church state , which now ceaseth to be a priviledge , Christ being come ; as in like manner the Temple , High Priest , &c. doe , which I have more largely discussed Examen , part . 3. § . 11. And for the fourth consectary , if it be understood of pristine Church-state , I likewise deny it . I grant the promise will bee extended to them and their seed , but how ? Not by an outward ordinance or initiall scale , as it is called , applyed to infants , but by the communicating the spirit and word of God to them and their seed ; as the text he alleageth imports , Isai . 59. 20. Nor by holding that neither Jewes nor Gentiles now are to have their infants sealed wil follow , that there will be two distinctestates in the Christian Churches : one of the Jews holy Fathers and children , another of the Gentiles who have only personall priviledges , none for their seed ; for neither doth Baptisme belong to the one or the other , because they the are seed of beleevers : and for regeneration and saving benefits , the Lord bestowes to the seed of either as pleaseth him . Nor would this conceit of mine set up or keep up a partition wall still contrary to the Apostle , Ephes . 2. 14. For then a partition wall is kept up when the Gentiles as Gentiles are excluded from accesse to God which is not done by my doctrine , they that hold that the command about Circumcision still binds virtually , come nearer to the setting up a partition wall in the Apostles ser se . I return to Mr Marshall . Mr Marshall in his Sermon as I conceived made this the thing he would prove , that we and our children are graffed in together ; this I granted in some sense to be true , that God doth usually call and adopt the children with the Fathers , but I denyed it to be so perpetually ; so as that a rule for an outward ordinance may be flamed thence . And so farre as I can collect the chiefe medium Master Marshall and Master Geree take hence to prove it is ▪ that we Gentiles have the same ingrassing into the true olive which the Jewes formerly had . This Master Marshall made the Apostles scope , though the truth is it is so farre from being the Apostles scope , that it agrees not with his words , who makes the ancient Jewes naturall branches , not ingraffed , and the scope of the Apostle is otherwise , as hath been shewed : Examen , pag. 65. But the thie●e difference is about the ingraffing what that is , as I had said . The ingraffing to me is meant of the invisible Church by election and faith . To this Master Marshall pag. 136. sayes , I reply , if it be meant of the invisible Church onely and that all who are ingraffed in the Apostles sense whether Jews or Gentiles are only elect ones , I will promise you never to plead this Scripture more for any inf●nts ; and after if you please let us try it out . I agree to this motion , and determine that the graffing in Rom. 11. 17. &c. is meant of the ingraffing into the invisible Church by election and giving faith , with this caution ; that I doe not deny that the same people might or were ingraffed into the visible Church by profession of faith , and baptisme ; but hold that this ingraffing is more then that which is into the visible Church by outward profession and ordinances . To prove my determination , I thus argue . 1. That ingraffing which is Gods act by his sole power , is into the invisible Church by election and giving faith . For graffing into the invisible Church is as Mr Marshall saith , pag. 135. admission into visible membership , which if it be by an outward ordinance , is the easie act of the administratour ; if by profession of faith , the easie act of the professour . But the ingraffing meant Rom. 11. is Gods act from his sole power , as is proved from verse 23. where the reason is rendred why the Jewes should be again grassed in , is , because God is able to graffe them in again ; Ergo , the graffing here is into the invisible Church . 2. That ingraffing which is called reconciliation opposite to casting away , that is by election and giving faith ; for no other acts can reconcile : but the ingraffing here is called reconciliation opposite to casting away v. 13. as may appeare in that v. 16. is a reason of the clause about the reception of the Jewes , v. 15. and the 17 verse , is an admonition from the supposition , v. 15. that the Jewes were cast away : which is called breaking off , v. 17. now if breaking off , v. 17. be the same with casting away , v. 15. then ingraffing is the same with reconciliation ; Erg● , ingraffing is by election and giving of faith . 3. The ingraffing must bee meant of that act whereby the branch stand in the tree as a branch this will none deny , it being the very terminus of ingraffing , as hea● the terminus of Calefaction . But that is by giving faith . Ergo , The minor is proved from v. 20. where it is said , by ●mbeleefe they were broken off but thou standest by faith , whence I argue . That act whereby the branch stands in the tree as a branch , must be the giving that meanes whereby the branch thus stands , but that is faith , v. 20. Erg● , the act of ingraffing is by giving of faith . 4. That ingraffing is meant v. 17. whereby the wild olive is Copartaker of the root and fatnesse of the olive tree , as is asserted there . But such is only election and giving of faith . Ergo , The minor I prove by considering who the root is , and what the fatnesse of the olive tree is . 1. Negatively , the root is not as Master Marshall and Master Blake , every beleeving pa●ent . For then all the branches should be naturall ; the child of every beleeving parent is a naturall branch from his father : but here the Apostle makes the Gentiles branches and a wild olive graffed in besides nature , and the Jewes only naturall branches growing from the root , v. 21. 24. Nor is it of any moment which is objected , that other parents are called roots as Jesse , Isai . 11. 1. For here only the root notes such a Father as is holy and from whom the branches are holy ; which agrees not to every beleeving Father . 2. Positively . The root is no other then Abraham . I said twice in my Examen , pag. 68. 129. Abraham only is a holy root , or at most Abraham Isaac and Iacob ; which I said only by concession : that if it were so , yet every godly parent was not a holy root , and therefore it served my turn there , if it were so . This Mr Marshall pag. 134. calls ; saying , and unsaying . But Mr Marshall might have considered that I did in that addition only mention the judgement of others , and not contradicted it there where it was not against my purpose if it were granted ; but otherwise , where I expresse my owne judgement , I mention only Abraham as the root , Exercit. pag. 10. Examen , pag. 64 , 65. And soe doe Deodate annot . on v. 16 ▪ 17. The new Annot. on v. 16. Beza on v. 17. Neque dubium est , quin radicis nomine intelligatur , Abraham credentium pater . Which contains the reason of this opinion . For he must be the root who is a Father both to Jewes and Gentiles , who are also branches in this root , the root is said to beare them , v. 18. But we read not this of any other then of Abraham called the Father of the faithfull , Rom. 4. 11. and the Gentile beleevers his seed , Rom. 4. 13. 16. Gal. 3. 29. no where are these things said of Isaac , and Iacob . It is said indeed that the Jewes are beloved , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the Fathers either because of the Covenant made with them , or because of the favour God bare them ; as often he is said to reserve a lamp in Judah for Davids sake , but this speech hath speciall respect to the Jewes , whereas the benefit of the root , v. 17. 18. is common to Gentiles and Jews . As for the fatnes of the olive tree Deodate saith truly , it is the blessing and promise made to Abraham & his seed & so the Apostle expres●eth it , Gal. 3. 14. And it would be too frigid , and washy an exposition to expound it of outward priviledges , & ordinances . Yea it were false , for the Gentiles were not partaker of the outward priviledges and ordinances of Abraham and the Jewes they being taken away . Now these things being put it must needs be , that this ingraffing must be by giving faith sith by faith only the Gentiles are partakers of the root Abraham , and the fatnesse of the olive tree the beleeving Church , not by naturall generation of beleeving parents , nor by outward administrations . Ergo , the ingraffing here into the invisible Church is by election and giving of faith . 5. From verse 25. If the breaking off the Jewes be by blinding , then the ingraffing is by giving faith , but the former is true , verse 25. Ergo , the latter . 6. If reingraffing of the Jewes produceth salvation , is by turning them from iniquity , taking away their sins according to Gods Covenant , then it is into the invisible Church by giving faith , but the former is true , verse 26 , 27. Ergo , the latter . 7. If the reingraffing be by vertue of Gods election and love , his gifts of calling then it is into the invisible Church by election and giving faith , but the former is true v. 28 , 29. Ergo , the latter . 8. If the ingraffing both of Jewes and Gentiles be the fruit of gods mercy , the breaking off by shutting up in unbeleefe , then the ingraffing is into the invisible Church by election and giving faith , but the former is true , verse 30 , 31 , 32. Ergo , the latter . What should I say more ? It is so plaine from the whole scope and tenour of the Apostles words , that the ingraffing there spoken of is into the invisible Church by election and giving faith , that from the first verse of the chapter to verse 13. there is scarce a verse but speaks of ●●jecting ▪ foreknowing , election , grace , hardning , giving a spirit of slumber , d●●kning the eyes , stumbling , falling or some equipollent terme to these , and the Apostle doth plainly signify his intention in all that discourse to be the shewing the mystery of Gods counsell in elcting , reprobating , blinding , converting one while the Jewes , another while the Gentiles ; so that I cannot but admire , that Mr Marshall should interpret the ingraffing of bare admission into visible Church-membership . 9. Adde hereto . The places which I conceive answer to Rom. 11. 17. must be understood of the invisible Church as Eph. 3. 6. 1 Cor. 12 , 13. Gal. 3. 14. 26. 28. 29. Lastly for testimonies of interpreters I find but two in Marlorats Cathol . Exposition on Rom. 11. 17. and they have these words . Hyperius . Neque enim hic amplius docet , sed orationem totam ad Gentes convertens sapienter monet , ne propter electionem suam efferantur , aut Judaeos quia rejecti sunt contemnant : maxime quum & Judaeorum plurimi salutem sint adhuc per Evangelium conseq●uturi , Gentes verò iterum possent , si Deo ita visum foret reprobari . Bucer Insitus fuisti illis ] Hoc beneficium est quod Gen●ibus per Iudaeos contigit . Gentes enim per fidem Christi factae sunt semen Abrahae Gal. 3. 29. Ergo , insitae Iudaeis , ut grati sanctis patribus promissa , & fruantur , & spiritu illorum vivant : id quod Apostolus per communionem radicis & pinguedinis significat ▪ ut namque filii Dei omnes eadem Dei benevolentia nituntur , ita eorum spiritu aguntur , etiamsi hic donetur grandior post revelatum Christum . Hic verò ex praecipuis locis est ex quibus probatur eodem spiritu verae justitiae donatos fuisse Iudaeos ante incarnatum Christum . Calvin ad vers . 20. nam erectio Iud●orum , si ob incredulitatem facta est , Gentium insitio per fidem , quid restat nisi ut Dei gratiam recognoscendo inde ad modestiam ac submissi●uem formentur . And this I thought so plain , that I conceived Mr Marshall himselfe so expounded it in his sermon pag. 43. in these words . It being the primary intention of the Covenant of Grace , in it's first work , to shew what free grace can and will doe to miserable nothing , to cut miserable man of from the wild olive , and graffe him into the true olive , to take away the heart of stone , to create in them a heart of flesh , &c. which thing hee saith nothing to in his Defence , though I alleaged it pag. 64. of my Examen , except it be that he meant the words he useth pag. 137 of his Defence ▪ alleaging that I say , insition ( not inc●●on as it is printed in Mr Marshalls Defence ) may be either into the visible or invisible Church , grassing in , may be either by faith or by profession of faith , and therefore I say the same with him , should be to tell me that he can bring as much from my words for him as I bring from his words for me , which conceit is but vain ; for my words are nothing but the opening the distinction of the various kind of ingraffing ; no assertion in those words what insition is meant , Rom. 11. 17. and for the words Mr Marshall alleageth out of my Examen , pag. 65. of which he saith . And truly Sir , in these words to my understanding , you grant not only my interpretation of this place , but even the question controverted betwixt us . I shall shew to be a mistake in answering his objection against the interpretation I give of the ingraffing into the invisible Church , having first observed that Master Gerees words in his vindic . paedob●aptsmi confirme my interpretation against his owne in the Chapter next before , when he saith , Chap. 1. Sect. 4. pag. 19. The holines there is meant not actuall holinesse , but potentiall in regard of Gods election . And Mr Blake , pag. 94. we by faith are graffed in for them , Rom. 20. The onely objection of waight is , that then some branches of the invisible Church may be broken off , and so election made revocable , and Apos●asy from grace maintained : and hereupon Mr Marshall accuseth me as symbolizing with Arminius , and puts this in the margine of his book , pag. 144. and in the Index : and thereby thinks to cut scores with me for accusing him as symbolizing with Arminius , pag. 69. of my Examen . To which I answer . 1. That there is a wide difference between Mr Ma●shals case and mine . I shew that Mr Marshals tenet agrees with Arminius his tenet , and I quote Arminius his words in the margine ; and therein I did justly . For Arminius also understood his speech of outward administrations , to wit the preaching of the Gospell , in the end of his Anti-perkins , and both Mr Marshall and Arminius agree , that the infants of the wicked for these outward dispensations are comprehended in their parents according to the tenour of Gods justice . But I expressely rejected the tenet of Arminius about revocable election , and Apostasy from grace ; which if they should follow from my interpretation , I conceiving otherwise , yet were not I to be charged with symbolizing with Arminius , as Mr Marshall doth in his professed tenet . 2 But I conceived I had prevented this objection , pag. 64. of my Examen , at those words . The meaning is not that some of the bra●ches in the invisible Church may be broken off , but only such as were so in appearance ; and I alleaged Iohn 15. 2. as an instance of the like expression : shewing in that very similitude , that the word branch in Christ is sometimes meant of that which is so in appearance , & sometimes of that which is so in truth ; and so in like manner it may be used , Rom. 11. 17. And thus Chamier , ●om . 3. paustrat . Cathol . l. 13. c. 21. answers Bellarmin ; urging Iohn . 15. 2. for falling away from faith . But Mr Marshall tells me , I professe I understand not how this distinction gives you the least help . I reply , that it plainly avoyds the consequence objected against my interpretation ; for though the branches in one passage be meant of the branches in appearance , and the breaking off that which was so in appearance , yet , other places , as in the same verse in the ingraffing may be meant of true ingraffing into the invisible Church in like manner , as it is Iohn 15. 2. But because upon more accurate examination I conceive that is not the genuine answer , I shall therefore let it passe . 3. I say , when the Apostle saith the branches were broken off , he meanes it of the branches that were truly such , and of the ingraffing that was truly such into the invisible Church , but that by the branches are not meant singular persons ; but the people , or as M. Mar. speaks p. 137. the body of them were the branches spoken of ●n this place , & M Geree p. 16. Nor is it either the Arminians tenet , or any errour to say that the body of a people which were once the elect people of God , and ingraffed into the invisible Church , because the generality or a greater number were such among that people , are broken off from election , and the invisible Church . For a people or nation is not a consistent being , but a fluent being as a river , which is the same river still , though not the same water ; and therefore as when Cyrus turned Euphrates from it's own channell , hee may bee said to have turned away the same river Euphrates that was created at first though it were not the same numericall water ; so when God rejected the Jews from being his elect , beleeving people he broke off the same people that were the true branches of Abraham the true root in the invisible Church , and yet no one particular person , who was elect or in the invi●●ble Church by faith broken off , which is the Arminian doctrine . And this I find observed by each of the three Authours alleaged before from Marlorat . Hyperius at v. 2● . is thus alleaged ; speaking . Quemadmodum nunc rejectus est populus Iudaicus , qui tamen electus fuerat : ita potest adhuc fieri , ut a●●quando rejiciatur populus Gentilis , qui nunc electus est ; alioqu singul●s electos de populo Iudaico , vel de populo Gentili reprobari impossibile planè est . Ad hunc ( inquam ) modum si quicquid de ruina metuenda electis sequitur , non de singulis electis , sed de populo ex quo descendunt interpreteris , multis te molest●is liberaveris . Calvin ad verse 21. praecipuè verò notandum Pauli sermonem non tam ad singulos homines , quàm ad totum Gentium corpus dirigi . Bucer ad verse 22. De Gentibus loquitur universim non de singulis hominbus . And indeed the text leads me to this interpretation . For when it is said , verse 23 , 24. that they shall be graffed in , God is able to graffe them in again ; these which are according to nature ; shall be graffed in their own olive ; which cannot be understood of the same person , but of the same people . Thus have I besides my first purpose put into this Apology this large dissertation about Rom. 11. 16 , 17. &c. partly because by Mr Gerees conference with me and another , and his words to me ; ●indic . paedobap . pag. 17. I commend this Scripture to your serious consideration , for I conceive it gives clear evidence to what I affirm ; I perceive this text is his chiefe hold for Infant-baptism , and in Mr Blakes new answer to my Examen , pag. 69. I find these words ; your examination , Rom. 11. 16. hath been under examination , and if there be strength in those exceptions , there is weaknesse no where . Mr Blake in his answer to my letter , pag. 30. saith thus . If the ingraffing bee by saving faith onely , to derive saving grace personally inherent as a fruit of election from Abraham ; then it must be that we are elect in Abraham , Abraham may say without me yee can doe nothing , &c. I answer , if I made Abraham a root as communicating faith by infusion , or impetration mediatory as Christ , this would follow ; but I make Abraham onely a root as he is called the Father of all them that beleeve , Rom. 4. 11. not by begetting faith in them , but as an exemplary cause of beleeving , as I gather from the expression . verse 12. that he is a ●ather to them that walk in the steps of our Father Abraham , which he had yet being uncircumcised . Mr Blake ibid. pag. 31. what made Abraham , Isaac and Jacob roots ( as in nature , so holy roots ) but the Covenant ? And was not the Covenant made as well with David , as with Abraham , Isaac , and Jacob. I answer , I make Abraham onely the root , as hee is only the Father of beleeevers exemplarily , and that which made him the Father of beleevers was not the Covenant , but his exemplary faith , as I gather from the words of the Apostle , Rom. 4. 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. 21. And this is all the accession of strength I find him opposing to my so manifest weaknesse . The rest is answered already . Mr Marshall pag. 124. sayes , I raise a dust about his argument , because I tell him he doth not distinctly expresse what the promise is , Acts 2. 39. and I require of him to forme his proofes into an argument , as if it were unreasonable to require him to make a syllogisme in mood and figure in a Sermon . And yet hee did make diverse in that Sermon , as pag. 39 , 41. But it seems neither then nor since is he willing to tell what promise that is , Acts 2. 39 and then conclude syllogistically ; for then it would plainly appear that that text serves not his purpose , who in his second conclusion will not assert that the promise of saving grace is made to the naturall seed of beleevers ; and yet that text speaks of the promise of Christ , and saving Grace by him . However I remember this was Doctor Prideaux his manner in Oxford , to require the disputant when he urged a text to read it , and then to gather his argument from it ; and this I ever took to be a bringing of light , and not raising a dust about an argument . And I shall still professe it to be a very irksome thing to me to answer an authour that will not doe so , and till Mr Marshall doe it , shall censure him as one that takes not the way to clear truth , but to darken it with multitude of wo●ds , among which a man shall have much adoe to find the medium and the conclusion . Mr Marshall , pag. 247. accuseth me of slurring , plundering , darkning the ●rguments of my adversaries . If he had told me wherein he had done me a pleasure , that I might know how to amend it , but if he mean ( as his words pag 134. [ to bring in so many imaginary senses , thereby to darken an argument ] import ) in that I tell h●m his conclusions and speeches may have many senses , and desire him to set down what sense he means , it is a conceit scarce sober , sith it is plaine that distinction and distinct expression is rightly called by Logicians lumen rationis , and is the onely way to enlighten , not to darken speeches . And therefore all that are able in dispute , make this their chiefe businesse to distinguish termes , or things that differ ; and then set down their conclusions , and frame their arguments and answers , which is the thing I would have Mr Marshall doe : Nor is my pretending obscurity in Marshall a kind of art to evad● what cannot plainly be answered , as Mr Geree conceives , vind . paedobap . ch . 1. sect . 3. but a means to find out the force of the argument , that I might give it a plain answer . Whereas I had framed the fifth argument in my exercitation thus . That which in succeeding ages in which it was in use , was in force . 1. As a tradition not written . 2. Out of imitation of Jewish circumcision . 3. Without universall practise . 4 Together with the errour of giving infants the Lords Supper ; and many other humane inventions under the name of Apostolicall traditions that is deservedly doubtfull , but such is Infant-baptisme ; Ergo , Mr Marshall pag. 251. 252. tells me , this is a poor argument . And yet such arguments have been accounted after other arguments from Scripture of great moment against Papists and Prelates , in rejecting of ceremonies . But how doth Mr Mar. answer this ? He denies the major , which hath been accounted good in other points . And then because I make a severall proofe of the severall parts of the minor : he repeats my words as if I had made a severall argument from each branch , and to make a shew of their weaknesse , puts in another argument and conclusion then mine , as like , with this inference . Ergo , we are not bound to observe it , Ergo , it was not a duty , which were none of my conclusions . And then sayes , This kind of arguing is almost as wild as that which the schooles call à baculo ad angulum , and the boyes in the schooles would stamp and hisse at such an inference . I professe if I should in schooles repeat my opponents arguments as Mr Marshall doth mine , I should allow the boyes in the Schooles to stamp and hisse at such a practise . Mr Marshall pag. 124. hath these words . You still goe on in your wonted equivocation of the word Covenant of Grace , taking it onely of the Covenant of saving grace , not including the externall way of administration with it . I this I said above I did because I love to speak plainly without equivocation , but it seems to Mr Marshall that which I count plain speech without equivocation , is equivocating with him . But what a ridiculous charge is this ? It 's equivocation when a word is taken in various senses . Is it equivocation in me to take the word covenant of grace onely of the covenant of saving grace ? This is like as if a man should be charged with speaking nonsense , because he speakes good reason in right language . But I hope by this time the Reader doth understand who hath used sophistry in disputing , I or Master Marshall . What I said of the Assembly , pag. 27. of my Examen , I did it not to cast filth in their face , as Master Marshall construed it ; but as a brotherly intimation of my feares and apprehensions to make them cautelous , whose wise and faithfull deportment in that great trust reposed in them is of great moment to the whole Christian Church . Of whom I professe I am still jealous out of Love to them , that especially in this matter they are not so sensible as they should be of the truth of God , and the good of the Church . For which jealousie , and for what I said about wasting of time about inconsiderable things comparatively , I suppose I am able to give a sufficient account . And this I speake meerly to awaken them , and to prevent that inconsideratenes through an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 passion , or such like cause usually befals such meetings , and is the cause of much woe to the Church of God. Be it well or ill taken liberavi animam meam meam , I have freed my owne soule . There are some other things wherewith Mr Marshal endeavors to render me a suspected person ▪ pag. 29. of his defence . I cannot but wonder , why you ( who pretend to be familiarly acquainted with the secrets of Antiquity ) should have so much correspondency with them who are not likely to helpe you with any certaine intelligence . Hugo Grotius is the strongest stake to support your tottering hedge ; and sure I am Grotius was a friend to the Socinians , and it is well knowne what they thinke of Baptisme . To this I answer , it is untrue that I any where pretend to be familia●ly acquainted with the secrets of Antiquity , I say , so farre as I can by search find it is thus and thus , but never did take upon me familiar acquaintance with the secrets of Antiquity . It seemes Master Marshal had the helpe of his friend , and so there was a Colledge to answer my Booke , yet after he and his friend have done all they could in this point , it doth not yet appeare but that I was in the right , to wit that Infant baptisme is not so ancient as is pretended . For he hath not yet acquitted the treatise of questions ad Orthodoxos from bastardy ; nor hath he answered that which I said that the words and whole scope of Irenaeus , lib. 2 , c. 39. shew that the place is not meant of Baptisme : but with a new device , such as it concernes the authors conscience to looke to , when he is told the words and whole scope shew that the place is not meant of Baptisme ; in which I chiefely alleaged the words , the answerer saies nothing to that , but maimedly sets downe my words thus ▪ In the last place you labour to prove that it is not meant of Baptisme from Iren●●us his scope in that place . And then sayes that though the scope be so , yet the words prove the question in debate before us . Which is a manifest abusing the reader , never answering the reason I gave from the very words and whole scope , that they could not be understood of the rite of Baptisme . And for Origen all that is yet brought cannot acquit the passages alleaged from suspicion of being supposititious , considering that Origen is taxed for Pelagianizing , whereas those words are point-blanke against them , which being observed by me , the answerer thought it wisedome to say nothing to it . And for the rest of the testimonies Master Marshall brought , I did confesse Nazianzen , Cyprian , Augustin , Hierom , Ambrose mention Paedobaptisme , but never upon Mr Marshal's ground federal holines , but upon 〈◊〉 supposed necessity to save the Infant from perishing . Master Marshall it seems rests much on Augustines words , that he saith . Hoc Ecclesia semper habuit , semper tenuit , hoc a majorum fide accepit , hoc usque in finem perseveranter custodit ; He puts it therefore in the Title , pag. 55. of his Defence , and pag. 9. quotes for these wordes Augustin . Serm. 15. de verbis Apost . I have read over that Sermon tom . 10 of his workes againe and againe and find not those wordes there , nor any to that purpose , I have also read Sermon 14. de verbis Apostoli , which hath the title de Baptisme parvulorum adversus P●lagianos , and I find not there those words ; onely these I find there . Sanctus Cyprianus est quem in manus sumpsi antiquus Episcopus sedis hujus , quid senserit de Baptismo parvulorum , immo quid semper Ecclesiam sensisse monstraver●● p●ululum acc●pit● , I deny not but that those wordes may be in 〈◊〉 but if Master Marshall had given me more certaine direction where to find them , I might then perhaps have given a more direct answer . However for these reasons I conceive litle cause to be moved with those words . First , because I find not that Augustin tooke it to be the tenet of the Church from any other ground , then the Epistle of Cyprian , 59. ad Fidum , concerning which he saith that Cyprian hath shewed how the Church hath alwayes held it , both in the words above cited tom . 10. Serm. 14. de verbis Apost . & tom . 7. lib. 2. de peccat merit● & remiss . c. 5. &c. And yet he that reads that Epistle of Cyprian shall find Cyprian onely declaring the determination of the Councill of 66 Bishops there mentioned , but nothing of the Churches alwayes holding it . Secondly , The famous story of the likelihood of cheating Augustine and the rest of the African Bishops with a supposititious Canon of the Nicen Council by three Roman Bishops to confirme Appeales to Rome from Africa in the case of Apiarius doth me thinkes shew , that Augustin might easily be mistaken about the tenet of the Church . Thirdly , The many speeches in Augustin , as Epist . 118. and elswhere , and others of the Ancients , about Easter , Lent-fast , Episcopacy , infant Communion and other traditions which are not credited by Protestant , nor some of them by some Popish writers doe cleare him from arrogance , or impudence that should say there is ▪ no great reason to give so much credit to that large assertion of Augustin ( if it be his ) as Master Marshal and some others seem to give to it . Fourthly Those words of Augustin tom . 7. de peccat : merito & remissione , lib. 10. c. 34. Optime Punici Christiani baptismum nihil aliud quam salutem & sacramentum corporis Christi nihil aliud quam vitam vocant . Unde nisi ex antiquant existimo , & ● Apostolica traditione , qua Ecclesia Christi i●situm tenent pr●ter baptismum , & participationem Dominicae me●s● , non solum non ad regnum Dei sed nec ad salutem , & vitam aeternam posse quenquam hominum pervenire , do me thinkes evidence that Augustin sometimes called that the Churches tenet , which he gathered by conjecture from the practice of the African Christians knowne to him . But it will be said the Pelagians did not deny Infant baptisme to have been the practise of the Church . I answer , nor do I deny that it was in Augustines time the practise of the Latin and Greek Churches to baptize Infants in case of necessity , but that it was so from the beginning , and alwayes in the Church we do not find the Pelagians yeelded , yet did they not perhaps question it , either because they were carried away with that erroneous rule that what they saw every where practised , and found not when it began to take that for an Apostolicall tradition , or because of the tyranny of the present custome , which Augustine himselfe somewhere confesseth , that though he misliked , yet liberius improbare non andeo . But saith Master Marshal pag. 55. I cannot but conceive it likely , that Augustines Ecclesia semper habuit , semper tenuit , should sway as much with the intelligent impartial Reader , as Master Tombes his non semper habuit , non semper tenuit I grant it should and much more , yet the Authorityes , and reasons I bring should be I account sufficient to weigh downe Augustines testimony . I had said the determination mentioned by Cyprian Epist . 59. ad Fidum , a● farre as I can by search find , is the spring head of Infant baptisme . Master Blake in his Answer to my letter , pag. 6. I desire to know what colour of truth you can put upon these words . I answer , the words are true without any colour put upon them , For I did not deny that I found Infant baptisme practised before , but that the determination of that council was the spring head , that is as Examen ▪ pag. 16. the first determined rule , or Canon , by force of which it hath since continued in a streame , and this is true . Having formerly searched for Austines words so often alleaged for the practise of Infant baptisme , upon the publishing Master Blakes booke I found them , not as Master Marshal quotes it , Serm. 15. de verbis Apostoli , but as Master Blake cites it , Ser. 10. And upon reading of them , the thing that Augustine saith the Church alwayes had , held and keeps , seems not to me to be the practise of Infant baptisme , unlesse by consequence ( which in matter of history is not so cleare a proofe ) but the doctrine of originall sin in Infants , which Pelagians denyed , not the practise of baptizing Infants . For the words immediately before are nemo ergo vobis susurret doctrinas alienas . And these words are onely a passage in a Sermon ad populum , in which usually there is not such exactnes , as in other workes ; & among those Sermons , which are not out of all question whether genuine . But that the Reader may judge of this testimony , I wil set down the words as I find thē . Nullus hominum in ista quae ex ▪ Adam defluit massa mortalium nullus omnino hominum non aegrotus , nullus sine gratia Christi sanatus . Quid de parvulis pueris , si ex Adam aegroti ? nam et ipsi portantur ad Ecclesiam . Et si pedibus illuc currere non possunt , alienis pedibus currunt ut sanentur Accommodat illis mater Ecclesia aliorum pedes ut ven●ant , aliorum cor ut credant , aliorum linguam ut fateantur : ut quoniam , quod aegri sunt alio peccante praegravantur , sic cum hi sani sunt , alio pro eis confitente salventur . Nemo ergo vobis susurret doctrinas alienas . Hoc Ecclesia semper habuit , semper tenuit : hoc a majorum fide percepit : hoc usque in finem perseveranter custodit . Quoniam non est opus sanis me dicus sed aegrot antibus . Quid necessarium ergo habuit Infans Christum , si non aegrotat ? si sanus est qu●re per eos qui eum diligunt medicum quaerit ? Si quando portantur Infantes , dicuntur omnino nullum propaginis habere peccatum , & veniunt ad Christum : quare non eis dicitur in Ecclesia , qui eos opportant ad Ecclesiam . Auferte hinc innocentes istos non est opus sanis medicus , sed male habentibus : non venit Christus vocare justos sed pecca●●res ? nunquam dictum est sed nec aliquando dicetur . Which last words shew that Augustine spake these things not as an Historian from good records , but as in popular Sermons is wont , out of conjecture from common practise in his time . Certainly the last words Augustin could deliver on no other ground : This testimony then hath a weake basis . And me thinkes the testimony of Chamier panstrat : Cathol . tom . 4. lib. 5. c. 15. § 19. Denique hunc morem quis non videt ejus temporis esse , cum vix millesimus quisque baptizabatur non adultus , & in Catechumenis diligenter exercitus might serve to ballance Augustines testimony inconsistent with so many likelihoods to the contrary . Which testimony of Chamier Master Marshall might have vouchsa●●d to have taken notice of , though it was but in the Margin of my Booke . Nor hath Master Marshall or his friend yet it proved baptizing of Infants of beleevers , by reason of federall holinesse taught by the Ancients ▪ Master Geree puts a passage of T●rtullian de anima , cap. 39. Ex seminis praerogativa procreari sanctos in his frontispeece , and Master Marshall conceives me sick of it . I answer , I blesse God no truth makes me sicke , it would make me well to see paedobaptisme proved either of Scripture , or primitive Antiquity . But for this testimony of Tertullian my stomacke was quickly eased of it , as finding not onely by reading , Delacerda his note on it , but also by considering the occasion and words going before that ex seminis praerogativa imports not federal holines , but holinesse , by reason of the freedom from that unholinesse in their procreation , which the infidels children had from the many grosse idolatrous superstitions , by which they were defiled , and as it were dedicated to the Devill . And I conceive Hieromes words to Paulinus , Epist . 153. cited by Master Blake in his answer to my letter , pag. 57. expounding thus Tertullian , assereas sanctos dici fidelium filios , quod quasi candidati sunt fidei & nullis idololatriae sordibus polluantur , shew that in Tertullian the praerogative of seed , notes onely freedome from pollutions of Idolatry , at or before their birth , not covenant holinesse , and the word candidatos fides , the same with designatos sanctitatis prove that they were holy in expectation , because in hope and intention believers , and so to be baptized . And though I find Tertullians words some-what obscure , as all his writings are ; yet in that he cals them designatos sanctitatis ( which seems to be meant of baptisme ) not onely ex seminis praerogativa , but also ex institution is disciplina , which Master Marshall himselfe interprets of their education , pag. 73. of his defence , it seems plaine to me , that this place proves that Tertullian makes their Christian education the antecedent to the baptisme of beleevers children in his daies : and so this place makes against Master Marshals tenet not for it . It is true , the Ancients doe allusively call baptisme circumcision . as they do the Lords Table the Altar , the Lords Supper the Sacrifice , the Presbyters Priests , the Deacons Levites ; nor do I deny that they say circumcision was a type of baptisme , ( which Protestant writers grant not ) and that they thereupon make baptisus succeed circumcision , and they argue for baptizing of Infants from circumcision , this I granted in my exercitation and Examen . But yet I thinke neither Master Marshall nor his friend can shew that they argued thus , the Children of Abraham were circumcised by vertue of the Covenant , I will be thy God and the God of thy seed , therefore the children of beleevers onely are to be baptized by vertue of the Covenant I find that they argued thus from circumcision , circumcision was the remedy against originall sinne , and the male that is not circumcised , shall be cut off from his people , so Baptisme is the remedy of originall sin , and by reason of it , the unbaptized infant dying , shall bee damned . But I thinke if Master Marshals friend could , he would have shewed that they argued from federall holinesse of infants of beleeving parents , to the capacity of Baptisme ; this I yet think is a late device , no elder then Zuinglius as I said in my Examen . And so my hedge is not yet tottering , but rather Mr Marshal's hedge , whereby hee fenceth Infant-Baptisme either from Antiquity or Scripture is already so broken down , that a mean Scholler may goe through it ; and if any truth-searching Scholler bee satisfied by Mr Marshals writing , it is to me an amazement . 2. As for that which he saith , that Grotius is the strongest stake in my hedge , meaning in point of antiquity , therein Master Marshall is much deceived . For , 1. the chiefe stake in my hedge in point of antiquity is the observation upon what ground the Ancients taught Infant-Baptisme , which was not Covenant-holines , but supposed necessity to save the child from perishing ; and the supposed power that Baptisme hath to give grace , which I gathered from Cyprian , Augustin , and others , but do not remember that I received it from any but by my own observation . 2. My hedge was in some sort made in my Exercitation before I ever took notice of any thing in Grotius about paedobaptisme , which was about the time I began to frame my Examen upon occasion of Mr Thomas Goodwin his citing his annotation upon Matth. 19. 14. where Grotius is so farre from being a stake in my hedge , that Doctor Homes , pag. 146. saith , that for Grotius his own opinion it is clear and full for Infant-Baptisme upon that 19 of Matthew v. 14. and therefore I suppose his testimony is the lesse to be suspected in this matter . I confesse that Grotius put me in mind of that of Gregory Nazianzen , which I find in the relation of his life , that though his Father were a Greeke Bishop , yet he remained unbaptized , till being sent to Athens to study ; being at sea he was in danger of drowning : and being perplexed , that he was likely to dye being unbaptized ; he resolved to be baptized when he came to shore . Mr Marshall askes how I prove his Father was a Christian when he was born ? To this I answer , that I had thought Mr Marshall had not been ignorant , that this instance of Gregory Nazianzen's Father is brought by many Protestant writers against the Papists that deny marriage to the Clergy , to prove that then Bishops were married , and did use their wives . If Mr Marshall please , he may read what Chamier panstrat : Cathol . tom . 3. lib. 10. c. 13. § . 10. sayes of his father and mother . I also found in Grotius the instance of Chrysostome , which I confesse I took upon his word as wanting books and time to read so much as was necessary to examine the matter , Grotius not directing whence he had it . But if that instance do not hold , the instance of Hierome is plain , whom Erasmus in his life proves out of his own writings to have been born of Christian parents in Pannonia , yet was baptized at Rome , whither he was sent to be taught the learning of that age . The testimony of the Councill of Neocaesarea I did not remember till Grotius put me in mind of it ; but I trusted not to his quotation only , but found the same in O s●●nder his Epit. Eccles . Hist . Cent. 4. lib. 1. c. 21. at the yeare 311. with this note ; Non intelligo quid sibi posterior hujus Canonis pars velit . As for the words they are so plain , that Mr Marshals evasions are but shifts . For though it be true that the Canon was only about children in the womb , yet the reason of their not baptizing , is not either because they were not yet born , or suretres could not undertake for them , but because in the confession in baptism , every ones free choice is shewed . Which plainly declares that Councill held that none were to be baptized , but such as shewed their own free choice by confession . As for Balsamon and Zona●as it is true that I have not read them but taken their testimony from Grotius , because the testimony of the Councill of Neoc●sarea , ancienter then the first Nicene was the thing alleaged , Balsamon and Zoharas were only glo●●ers ; yet Mr Marshall sayes nothing to Zonaras , and what he brings in answer to Balsamous glosse is nothing to the purpose . For neither did Grotius nor I say that Balsamon denied Infant-Baptisme according to his own opinion , but that from that canon Balsamon and Zonaras , do infer that an infant cannot be baptized because it hath not power to choose the confession of Divine Baptisme , which is all one with that which Mr Marshall himselfe saith , pag. 31. There is required of him that would professe himselfe a follower of Christ ( 〈…〉 the last words of the Canon ) a free election : or ( as Balsamon hath it ) there is required of everyone in Baptisme his own promise , which an infant in its mothers wombe cannot doe . And can an infant out of the mothers womb do it ? so that it is plain even by Mr Marshals own explication of the Canon , that that Council held that those were only to be baptized , that could make a promise themselves . I doubt not but that this Councill allowed Baptisme of infants , as Nazianzen did in case of danger of death , but I think it is plain that out of that case they allowed not the baptisme of an infant , no not though a beleevers infant ; till the child could make its own confession : as appeares from their scrupling the baptizing of the mother converted now with child , lest it should be taken to reach to the child in the womb , and from the generall reason , that every one manifests his own free choice in confession . And I am peswaded that this was the true state of Baptisme in those dayes , in the Greek and Latin Church ▪ that they did baptize all sorts of infants whether of beleevers or unbeleevers , in case of danger of death , least they should perish for want of it ; in which case Lay-persons did baptize : and Augustine contra epist . Parmeniani , cap. 13. lib. 2. saith , si autem necessitas urgeat , aut nullum , aut veniale delictum est . But otherwise they baptized not ordinarily , till they came to years to make their own confession . The cases of Nazianzen , Augustine , and Hierome , Constantine the great , and others ; and their solemn baptizing onely at Easter and Whitsuntide , which is observed in the Rubrick of the English Liturgy , me thinke should abundantly satisfie men concerning this truth . I cited likewise Grotius his speech of many of the Greekes , who in every age even to this day , doe keep the custome of deferring the Baptisme of little ones , till they could themselves make a confession of their faith . For which words though he cite no Authour , yet I presume Grotius , who is even by Spanheimius , often stiled vir summus ; would not have said it , unlesse he had some ground for it . Mr Marshall sayes , I might blush for justifying the Anabaptists , in saying that the Ancients , especially the Greeke Church have rejected the baptisme of infants for many hundred yeares ; meaning in the first ages after Christ . But as yet , neither Mr Marshall nor his friend have shewed me sufficient reason why I should retract it . For what he brings out of Photius and Balsamon , men of much later standing about the later Canons , and Imperiall lawes of the Greekes ; and one of the 8 Canons concluded in Carthage against the Pelagians , requiring infants to be baptized : proves not , but that the Greeke Church rejected baptizing of infants many hundred of years in the first ages ; nor doth it overthrow that of Grotius , that many of the Greekes ( he doth not say the Greeke Church ) in every age to this day doe keep the custome of deferring the baptizing of little ones , till they could themselves make a confession of their faith . Yea , the lawes brought by Mr Marshall rather prove it . For why should lawes be made for it , but because many did neglect it ? And the story out of Balsamon about captives of Christians , rather shewes that some were not baptized , when little ones even among Ch●ristians , because they determine if there were no witnesses to prove their Baptisme , though children of Christians ; they should bee baptized . As for Grotius his being a friend to the Socinians , it is nothing to me , who knew not Grotius nor his wayes ; nor ever pleaded for him . Yet I remember I have read that though he was accused thereof long agoe by Ravenspergerus , hee was justified by Vossius , and what ever Rivet , Maresius , Laurentius , charge him with , yet his works have a place among the learned , and may be read and made use of cum judicio , at least as the works of Papists , Lutherans , Prelatists , &c. who yet may be tainted with errours . Even Theophilus Philokyriaces , Loncardie usis ; if I mistake not Master Marshals friend , doth in the very title page of his Dies Dominica , and in the book make use of Barenius his testimony in his Annals ; an authour and work as much excepted against ●● Grotius . Nor doe I find that in that wherein I made use of Grotius , he hath deceived me ; or I or he wronged the truth , or our Reader . Mr Marshall pag. 54. of his Defence saith , that he perceived I have made great use in this controversy of an Arminian booke commonly known by the names of censura censurae Whereas I never read the book or made any use of it , till I read this passage in Mr Marshals Defence . But since I confesse I have read chapter 23 of it , and am by that I find there the more confirmed in that truth , wherein I concurre with that Authour : though the truth is the chiefe light I had for antiquity in this matter , was some little reading of my own , and that which I read in Vossius his theses theol : de paedobaptisme . But because Mr. Marshall hath accused me as having correspondencie with them who are not likely to help me with any certain intelligence , that it may appeare that I used what diligence I could to get most certain intelligence when I applyed my selfe to answer Mr Marshals Sermon , I presumed to write this ensuing letter , to that famous learned Gentleman , Mr John Selden , of the Inner Temple . Clarissime Vir , INter theologorum placita haec obtinent , baptismum Ioannis & Christs circumcisioni Judaicae succedere , ejusque locum occupare : atque inde paedobaptismi ri●um deduci . Mihi verò cum de paedobaptismi origine , tum de successione baptismi in locum circumcisionis an vera tradant Theologi isti , gravis diu insedit dubitatio Baptismi enim institutum longè aliud esse à circumcisione , & paedobaptismum in Ecclesiis Christianis nonnisi in seculo post Apostolos secundo obtinuisse plurima suadent . Inter alia vero istud urget , quod legerim alicubi ( quanquam libris jam spoliatus locum judicare ▪ nequeam ) baptismi ritum fuisse satis notum ante Joannis Baptistae tempora in admissione Proselytorum aut Discipulorum apud Judaeos , & interrogatio Pharisaeorum non de novitate ritus sed de authoritate baptizantis quaerentium , Joannis Evangelii cap. 1. Co● . 25. idem innuere videtur . Et forsan 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , apud eundem cap. 3. Com. 25. ad usurpationem istius ritus spectabat . Paedobaptismum verò ignotum fuisse primaevis Ecclesiarum Christianarum temporibus asserit Ludovicus Vives comment in Augustini de civitate Dei , lib. 1. cap. 27. Quapropter vir ornatissime , super istis apicibus doctrinae successione scilicet baptismi●● lecum circumcisionis , & paedobaptismi origin● , te ( cujus periti● in rebus & scriptis Hebraicis & Ecclesiasticis , veritatis amor animique candor satis spectantur , & latè praedicantur ) consulendum duxi . Pla●eat itaque claritudini tu● mihi quanquam obscure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tamen , tanquam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , super ●stare animi sententiam tui impertire . Et quoniam sat scio te plurimis iisque gravissimis negotits occupari responsum tuum , se● pluribus , seu pa●cioribus verbis tempore à ●eipso posite expect abit . Dignitatis vestrae observantissi●● , JOANNES TOMBES . Londini ●●dibus Recto●is Ecclesiae 〈◊〉 church , 〈…〉 August●●●4 . 1644. Though the answer was no other then a reference of me to the books I might meet with in Stationers shops , yet I conceived this advantage I had by it , that what I found in books extant might be the more safely relyed on , and that my diligence to discover the truth would be the more apparent , for which I denied my selfe rest ; and without recompense from men , layd out more then my estate could beare . But M. Mar. seems ready to catch at any thing that may make me suspected , and so bring my writing out of credit ; & p. 78. of his Defence , thus he speaks . I am misinformed by good friends who know & love you very well if your self incline not this way to baptize any , whether Turks or Heathens , who onely would make a profession of their faith in Iesus Christ , & then admit them to al other ordinances , & not have them excommunicated à sacris , but onely à privato consortio ; though their lives should prove scandalous . To which I say , that I deny not , but that in private conferēce lamenting the sad condition of these nations , that are likely to cut one anothers throats about the differences between Presbyterians & Independents ; I have said that I doubted whether ever excommunication à sacris , or the Presbyterian or Independent Ecclesiasticall government , would be proved to be Jure Divino by Christs appointment . And I confesse that I take it to be but a matter of prudence , whether each congregation have it's compleat power and order within it selfe , or that it bee ordered in some things by an assembly of select persons out of divers congregations , and whether congregations and pastours be fixed , or unfixed . And I doubt whether the power of the keyes , Matth. 16. 19. be any other then doctrinall ; whether Matth. 18 15 , 16 , 17 , 18. contain any other direction then about particular injuries between brother and brother , or let him be to thee a heathen and a publican ; be any other then shunning familiar converse : whether 1 Cor. 5. 2. the mourning that the incestuous person might be taken away from among them , was any other then upon solemn fasting and prayer by the whole Church of Corinth , out of a holy zeale to Gods glory by Anathema curse or imprecation , to imprecate the vengeance of God upon him for the injury hee had done to God , and the Christian profession ; that he might be taken away from them by God , and whether the delivery to Satan were any other then an act of Apostolicall power , or such as like them had power over unclean spirits tending to the taking away his naturall life , as Molinaeus in his Vate● . And I conceive the Apostle verse 9 , 10 , 11 , 12. of that chapter ; proceeds from that particular occasion to generall directions concerning the d●●lining society with them that are vitious : which directions are manifestly concerning arbitrary and voluntary society in civill things , such as in a sort in some case they might afford to infidels , and then concludes . And ye shall put away from among your selves that wicked one , which as Ainsworth observeth on Deut. 17. 7. are the same words that the Greeke useth , Deut. 17. 7. and in like manner , Deut. 22. 21. 22. 24. noting the event of executing judgement by killing , whereby the guilty person and the guilt of his transgression was removed from them . And in reference to the incestuous person if notes the consequent of their mourning that he might be taken away from them , v. ● . not by such a processe as is either used in Episcopall Courts , or Presbyteriall Consistories ; or Congregationall meetings ( though I think this last way comes nearest to it of any of the three ) by conventing , trying , hearing w●nesses , and then pronouncing a judiciall sentence according to the determination of one or more by plurality of votes , but by a solemn detestation of the fact , mourning for it , and with joint commotion and concurrence of spirit complaining of it to God , and imploring his vengeance to cut him off , and so to vindicate his own name and people . Which I conceive the Lord did then in an extraordinary way , when they had no Christian Magistrate or other power to avenge that injury to God and his people , in that Ch●rch which was endued abundantly with speciall gifts , 1 Cor. 1. 7. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Cor. 14. Which fact , I for my part doubt how it can be made the foundation of an ordinary meer Ecclesiasticall judgement , with jurisdiction as superiours that claime authority without speciall gift ; in the time wherein a Christian Magistrate is ready to execute judgement on such offendors , any more then the fact ; Judg. 20. of the whole congregation of Israel , in avenging the fact of the men of Gibeah , when there was no King in Israel , might be drawn into example for an ordi●nary practise when they had Judges , m●ch lesse how hence may be concluded any such thing , as power of suspension from the Lords supper for every emergent scandall so judged by a congregation , or congregationall Presbytery . Nor doth the Church loose by having a Christian Magistrate , if that jurisdiction be wanting ; sith I suppose it is better provided for by the constant care of a christian Magistrate , if conscientious in executing judgement : if not , such censures have been seldome executed with conscience , or good effect . And though it be , that many magnifie the vertue and benefite of their juridical excommunication yet the best intelligence I have , makes me question whether it hath not been rather an engine of much harme , as being used rather against dissenters in opinion , and opposers of profit , then men openly vitious , mannagers of that cen●ure generally shewing themselves irreconcileable to them that dissent from them , but favourable enough to vitious living . Neverthelesse I deny not , but that there is a discipline proper to the Church , as namely in case of erroneous doctrine , and superstitious pra●tise , contrary to the christian faith or worship according to the practise . Acts 15. and command , Tit. 3. 10. Rev. ● . 24. 20. and in case of vitious life according to the scriptures , 1 Tim. 5. 20. 2 Thess . 3. 6. 14 , 15. 1 Cor. 5. 9 , 10 , 11. And if any assembly of Ministers and Rulers bee set up for the better discovery of such , that a person be not charged with those evills upon uncertain reports ; I think it agreeable to Gods will , 1 Tim. 5. 19. And if it happen that any such facts be perpetrated as are like to that of the incestuous person : I doubt not but the whole Church may and ought to disclaime the person so offending , and to exclude him from all brotherly communion , because I conceive so much was done to the incestuous person , as I gather from 2 Cor. 2. 6 , 7. yet herein they did not act as Judges that had power of jurisdiction over him , but as Physicians out of charity seeking to cure him . And I suppose in the manner of doing these things , we have not certain precise direction from Gods word , but that we are left free by God to order such things though pertaining to christians as christians by alterable rules of prudence . And thus farre I have thought good to expresse my selfe in this matter , because of Mr Marshals words tending to render me suspected as if I did monstri aliquid alere , nourse some monster . As for my opinion about baptizing , I have publiquely declared when I examined whether to visible Church membership were necessary reall sanctity in the judgement of Church-officers , that by profession sufficient to it , I mean a profession of repentance and faith in Christ , which is serious , sober , free , and understanding ; but denied that it is necessary there should be a further probation by trying mens spirits , so as to satisfie the particular congregation or Church-officers ; that a person be admitted to Church-membership , and the Lords Supper . I confesse such triall is requisite in admitting into speciall function ▪ or intimate society ; but not to communion in worship . And my opinion is , that as much is required to make capable of baptisme , as of the Lords Supper ; and that being admitted to the one , if rightly performed , they are not to be debarred of the other , for want of a further triall of their spirits . And though I never said that by rectifying Baptisme , all the abuses I mention following padobaptisme would be removed ( for I did not make paedobaptisme the sole or principall cause of them , that is mans corruption , which will fall into those or the like in some measure , if paedobaptisme were removed ) yet it is true which I said in my Examen , part . 2. § . 7. the onely way to further reformation , is to begin in a regular way at the purging of that Ordinance of Jesus Christ , to wit Baptisme . Even as though all ignorance and superstition were not removed by removing Latin Service , yet that was the onely regular way to begin at the removing it . And it is easie to conceive , that forasmuch as the grosse ignorance of people is much occasioned by their baptizing afore they know , that if they were not baptized till they knew christian Religion , as it was in the first ages , grosse ignorance in christian professours would be almost wholly reformed , and for christian walking , if baptisme were administred with a solemn abrenunciation , profession and promise by the baptized in his own person , & upon that were baptized , I doubt not but it would have more aw on mens consciences then many other means used or devised , considering how in the primitive times men differred baptisme for feare they might not enjoy their lusts , and they were counted by some as guilty of inexpiable crime that fell away after baptisme : and on the other side , infant-baptisme is the ground upon which innumerable people ignorant and profane harden themselves as if they were good christians , regenerate , and should be saved without holinesse of life , never owning or considering any profession or promise made for them as theirs . There have been other suggestions hinted by Mr Geree , but amplified in clancular whisperings concerning my former conformity to ceremonies and Episcopall government , which are carried about in private to render me a person suspected , and to lessen the credit of my writing , the chiefe part of which I have answered in my Sermon intituled Fermentum Pharisaeorum ; and the time , end , necessity , manner , and circumstances in doing what I did , being pleas sufficient to acquit me , and the things not belonging to the present cause , but being fitter for private audience . I will trouble the Reader no further with my Apology , assuring my selfe that setting aside this opinion of paedobaptisme and common infirmities , my life , labours doctrine even in the judgement of those that dissent from me , and knew me , will abundantly answer for me against all clancular whisperings whatsoever . And concerning my two treatises8 notwithstanding Mr Ley's censure passed perhaps afore he had compared mine and my Antagonists writings together ; I may rather say , that by my two treatises , there is such a wound given already to Infant-baptisme , that however men may play the Mountebanks and skin it over , it will never be cured at the bottome . For in point of antiquity it still stands good which I asserted ; That Infant-baptisme is not so ancient as is pretended , as now taught , is a late Innovation ; that a great number of those that sought reformation in the thirteenth Century , opposed infant-baptisme ; that the doctrine of Anti-paedobaptisme neither undermines Magistracy , Ministery , Lords day , nor any true interest of the infants of beleevers , that the argument from the Covenant to the Seale , is either a tautology , or invalid without a command , that the Covenant made with Abraham , Gen. 17. was a mixed Covenant having in it not onely promises of spirituall benefits common to all beleevers , but also peculiar promises concerning things temporall ; that Acts 2. 39. being meant of Christ and saving benefits by him ; as Master Marshall confesseth cannot serve Master Marshals turn to prove his second conclusion which he denies to be meant of the promise of saving grace , as if it were made to beleevers and their naturall seed . As for Master Marshals paraphrase , which he calls argument , pag. 129. 130. of his Defenc● ; I think it to bee most absurd in that it makes the promise , Acts 2. 39. when applyed to the Fathers to be meant of justification , when to the children , of outward administrations ; nor so expounded are the words true : there being no such promise . That Rom. 11. 16. &c. proves not that there is the same Church state in the Churches of the Gentiles , that was in the Jewes , so as that the Infants of Beleevers should by vertue of naturall generation be reckoned as visible members , forasmuch as now the Church is not nationall as it was then , nor gathered as God did the Jewish Church by taking the whole nation for his people in one day , but now the Church of God is gathered by preaching up and down , some in one place and some in another in succession of time ; That 1 Cor. 7. 14. speakes not of federall holinesse , but matrimoniall ; yea if the reason of the lawfulnesse of the living of two persons together in disparity of Religion , be taken from the vertue of faith in the one party , not from the relation of husband and wife , as Mr Marshals exposition makes it , the medium of the Apostle to prove the lawfulnesse of the living of a beleeving wife with an unbeleeving husband , will as well prove the lawfulnes of the living of a beleeving forni●atrix with an unbeleeving fornicator ; as may appeare by a syllogisticall analysis of the Apostles argument : the major whereof is this , according to Mr Marshals exposition . That man and wo●an may lawfully dwell together , notwithstanding the unbeleefe of the one party whereof one is sanctified by the faith of the other for begetting of a holy seed ; this is manifestly the force of the Apostles reason after his exposition . Nor is it necessary to insert [ being husband and wife ] sith the sanctification is not ascribed by him to the relation of husband and wife , but to the faith of the one party , as the proper cause of it . And by Mr Blake Birth . priviledge , pag. 11. Holinesse in the text , is a fruit or result of faith in the parent . Now the assumption ; the unbeleeving form catour is sanctified by the faith of the ●eleeving whore for the begetting a holy seed Master Marshall denies not , but salkes only ; telling me pag. 163 of his Defence , he could name Divines who are no whit infer●●ur to my selfe , who conceive that a beleever even then when he commits fornication with an infidell , doth so remove the barre in the unbeleeving party , as that the child is ( in the beleeving parents right ) to be r●ckoned to belong to the Covenant of Grace , and the Church of God , which is in his sense to be sanctified ; and it must needs be granted , for 〈◊〉 causa ponitur effectus , if the quality of faith be the cause of that sanctification , the sanctification followes in one , as well as the other . The conclusion then followes from Mr Marshals exposition , that the beleeving fornicatrix may still live after conversion , with her unbeleeving fornicator ; for they are still sanctified for the begetting of a holy seed ; and the children so begotten are federally holy , it being Gods rule in this case : if Mr Marshall say true , partus sequitur meliorem partem . But this is so absurd a thing that I beleeve Mr Marshall himselfe will when he understands it ▪ quit his chiefe hold , and the judicious reader explode the exposition of 1 Cor. 7. 14. of federall holinesse . And for the third conclusion of Mr Marshall , he hath not yet proved that the rite of Baptisme was appointed by Christ to succeed into the room , place , and use of circumcision ; or that a command concerning circumcision , should be a command concerning baptisme : yea my exposition of Colos . 2. 11 , 12. is acknowledged right by Mr Marshall , and consequently his inference overthrowne , as I said above . As for that which I alleaged that Baptisme was an old rite among the Jewes in initiating Proselytes , to shew that baptisme in exact speech doth not succeed circumcision , but is a continuation of an old rite to an●ther purpose ; as in exact speech the Lord doth not succed the Pas●●over , but is an old rite used at the Paschall supper among the Jewes , and contin●ed by Christ to another purpose ; Mr Marshal catcheth at as a proof for Infant-baptisme , because then the Proselytes children were baptized : pag. 256. But the answer to it is easie . For though the rite of Baptisme was an old use continued by Iohn Baptist and Christ . yet I say it was to another purpose or use ; as I shew , pag. 89. 90. of my Examen , clean of another nature ; as Mr Lightfoot Harmony , part . 1. pag. 138. and was used according to another rule then among the Jewes . For they did not baptize Jewes either elder or younger as the same learned men I cited confesse , but onely the Gentiles because they were uncleane ; and they were initiated by sacrifice as well as baptisme , with many other differences : but Iohn the Baptist and Christs Disciples baptized Jews as well as Gentiles , without sacrifice . As for Mr Marshals fourth conclusion , he confesseth pag. 128. that the formall reason of the Iewes being circum●●sed was the command , which if true ; it is the distinguishing and constituting reason , qua posita ponitur res , non posita non ponitur ; so that the Jewes ought to be circumcised because of the command , without a command what ever were their interest in the Covenant or Church-state , they were not to be circumcised . Now this is as much as need be to overthrow Mr Marshals argument , which is to prove that infants are to be baptized precisely by vertue of interest in the Covenant without a command , because as hee supposeth the Jewes infants were circumcised meerly by vertue of the Covenant ; for so the analogy or proportion in his reasoning must hold . The Jews infants were in the Covenant , and therefore were to be circumcised ; Ergo , it must be so with beleevers children now in Baptisme ; where the formall reason is supposed to be the Covenant : but Mr Marshall both pag. 92. & pag 182. confesseth the formall reason is the command ; and therefore though the Covenant be pu● , yet if the command were not put , circumcision of infants ●ad been no duty , but a will-worship ; and by parity of reason it is so in baptisme : infants are not to be baptized barely by vertue of Covenant-holinesse without a command ; which is the main thing I contend for . As for the fifth conclusion of Mr Marshall , that which I answered continues still , that circumc●sion though it were a priviledge to the Iewish Church , as the Arke , ●abernacle , high Priest , Temple were , b●longing to that nationall Church-state , to have themselves and infants circumcised ; yet it was a priviledge proper to that time not now to continue : as the Apostle , Gal. 3. & 4. Heb. 9. & 10. shewes , it did not belong to the substance of the Covenant of grace common to Jewes and Gentiles ; and so neither is it or any thing in the room of it any more a priviledge to us now then some house the room of the Temple : some chief Bishop in the room of the High Priest , &c. And therefore I say still , that this argument is indeed of no weight , but among vulgar and non-syllogizing capacities ; and that Divines that use it do but flatter the people by it ; and that if the reason be good , it overthrowes our compleatnesse in Christ , in whom we have Circumcision , Arke , Temple , Priest , all ; and as I said in my Exercitation it is the very egge out of which most of the Popish ●eremonies were hatched ; to wit , because they thought wee must have priviledges as the Jewes , and therefore must have something like that they had . Mr Marshall , pag. 195. of his Defence , speaketh thus . First for the point of will-worship I shall desire you to prove this conclusion . That all things belonging to christian worship even in the circumstances of it , even the ages and sexes of the persons to whom the ordinances are to be applyed , must be expressely set downe in the new Testament ; if you prove not this , you say nothing to the purpose , for this is our very case . To which I reply . That I owe not M. Marshall such service , as to prove what he shall like another Eurystheus injoyn me : I have pag. 11● . pag. 152 of my Examen syllogistically set down my argument to prove Infant-baptisme will-worship , it belongs to him to tell me what he denies in my syllogisme , that I may prove it , though I have already done it , and sha●l doe more fully when he tells me what he doth deny : but it is a meer shift for him to impose on me the proofe of a Proposition I owne not , and not tell me what he denies in my own syllogisme . This is contrary to the rules of disputation I have been acquainted with ; yet if Mr Marshall shall declare that he holds the subject of baptisme to be but a circumstance , I shall be ready to oppose him therein further ; and shew that the point in difference is not the bare age or sexe , but qualification of persons to be baptized ; yea the reason and main use of Baptisme . As for Mr Marshals principle for his virtuall command I have shewed above ; that when he should have brought all Protestant Divines averring this maxime , that all the commands and institutions of God about the Sacraments of the Jewes ; bind us as much as they did them in all things which belong to the substance of the Covenant , and were not accidentall to them : in stead of this he alleageth another thing , that Protestant Divines make the same generall nature , end and use of our Sacraments , and the Iewes Sacraments , and argue thereupon from one to the other , which is quite beside the businesse . For the maxime is of commands about the Sacraments , and they are all about the rituals or administrations , and concerning commands about the Sacraments , binding us as the Jewes , he produceth not one command binding us , or one Protestant avowing it . As for the command , Matth. 28. 19. when I said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to make Disciples , but no where are infants said to be discipled , Mr Marshall tels me that some learned criticks say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , answers to an hebrew phrase among the Rabbins , of admission of schollers that they may be taught ; which though I beleeve not , yet if it were granted serves not Mr Marshals turn , unlesse he can shew that infants were said by them to be thus admitted-schollars . Then Mr Marshall referres me with a blind direction to Spanheimius , whom I have consulted , and I find many absurdities in that learned Authours words dub . Evang. part . 3. dub . 27. This in effect he sayes that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 containes not the act the Disciples were to doe , but the end of their sending , which I think is so absurd that it needs no other refutation then the mention , and then that they might 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without teaching them ; whereas he himselfe sayes , non significat solum docere sed & Discipulos facere , so that according to him it includes teaching and somewhat more , and aequipollet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Io : 4. 1. which was by teaching , and the parallell place , Mark 16. 15. is , preach the Gospell to every creature . I had said in my Examen , that the speech of baptizing Lydia's houshold , Acts 16. 15. must be understood by other places which when they expresse the baptizing of the houshold , they expresse also the beleeving or receiving of the word by the whole houshold , and by the frequent [ Mr Marshall alters it into sometimes ] use of the word , which is to put the house for the people of growth in it . Mr Marshall saith , who taught you it must be so interpreted ? I answer , Augustin lib. 3. de doct . Christ . c. 26. ubi autem ap●rtius ponu●tur ibi discendum est qummodo in locis intelligantur obscuris : Cha●●ier panstrat , Cathol . tom . 1. lib. 16. c. 6. and all those Divines among which I think Mr Marshall is one , that say we must expound one text by comparing it with others that are like . To that I said , that [ house ] is frequently taken for the grown persons in it ; Mr Marshall sai●● , it may very well be granted , and hurts not me , unlesse you can prove it must be so meant . Though I think I proved it must be so meant , yet it is enough to shew that Mr Marshall cannot prove from the baptizing of housholds an example of baptizing an infant , sith , the word house may be taken ( as Mr. Mar. saith , may very wel be granted ) for the grown persons in that house . As for Mr Marshals second argument , because there was an equivocation in it ▪ and in one sense the major must be denied , in another the minor ; and if the major be understood in one sense , the minor in another ; there bee foure termes , and the syllogisme is naught . To this Mr Marshall makes no reply in a logicall form , but tells us in a loose discourse , that forasmuch as there is no infallible ground of certainty , but onely of charity , that any growne person to be baptized hath actually the inward grace ; and so in charity ●ee are to conceive of beleevers infants , because Christ said , Mark 10. 14. Of such is the kingdome of God , they are to be baptized So that in his Defence Mr Marshall alters his argument which he set down in his Sermon , concluding not from a capacity of inward grace to Baptisme as he did then ; but from the judgement of charity that they have actually the inward grace , which he seems to count sufficient for Baptisme . Mr Geree his reasoning is to the same effect : vindic . paedobapt . ch . 1. sect . 7. and is thus formed by him into a syllogism , where we have evidence for judgement of charity , that there is the grace of the Covenant , there we may s●e the seal of the Covenant . But we have evidence for the judgement of charity , that in infants of beleevers there is the grace of the Covenant . Ergo , Of this Syllogism I deny both major & minor . Acts 10. 47. doth not provethe major . For the Apostle there did not baptize upon a judgment of charity of what was latent , but from a certaine sense of their magnifying God , and the gift of the holy Ghost ; nor was Simon Magus baptized because in the judgement of charity hee had the grace of the Covenant , but because he professed the faith , which was certain to Philip. And this was Master Marshals doctrine in his Sermon , pag. 47. where he confesseth that the Apostles charity or charitable conjecture was not the ground of their admitting them to the ordinance , but the profession and confession of the party made according to the word , which they were bound to rest in . And therefore I see not how Mr Marshall can count a judgement of charity sufficient for Infant-baptisme , without crossing himselfe in his first Sermon . For my part I doe not think a Minister ought to be ruled in baptizing by his own judgement of charity ( which is ofttimes very uncharitable to those that deserve best ) but by certain knowledge of true sanctification by extraordinary revelation , or of the parties profession of the faith by other meanes , either of which is sufficient , not both necessary . Nor do I require of infants more assurance then of grown men , but shewes of repentance and faith in either . Yet , as when one being required to bring no more then a servants testimony for the grant of a thing , if he bring the masters hand and seale without the servants testimony and the thing be granted ; he that grants it doth require no more then the servants testimony : so when I say , if shewes of repentance and faith be exhibited I will baptize , and I will baptize upon extraordinary revelation , that an infant is a beleever : I doe not require more assurance of an infant then of a growne person , when I say , if the infant professe the faith , I will baptize , if God witnesse for it that it is a beleever I will baptize , in neither goe I by judgement of charity , but certainty either of revelation or profession , which neither Master Geree nor Master Marshall can make good of all the infants of beleevers . But saith Master Geree there 's evidence in charity to judge that the children of beleevers have the grace of the Covenant . To this I answer , the evidence for judgement of charity is to be taken from a persons own deeds according to the rule , 1 Cor. 13. 7. charity beleeveth all things , capacity of grace is common to all persons on earth , and therefore is no ground to baptize one more then another . That some infants have been actually partakers of inward grace , as Mat. 19. 14. Luke 1. 15. Ierem. 1. 5. yeelds nothing to prove any judgement to be right that it is so in any other , but onely that it may be so . Infants of beleevers are not under the Covenant of Grace or within the externall administration of it , by vertue of Gen. 17. 7. Deut. 30. 6. they speak of more then externall administration ▪ and must be understood of the elect which the Apostle denies to have bin ever by God assured to the natural seed , Rom. 9. 8. 15. no judgements of charity that the infants of beleevers are under the Covenant of Grace can be deducted from these texts , the most is conjecturall hope that it shall be so , which experience shewes to miscarry often , therefore these things yeeld not a warrant for infant-baptisme . Doctor Homes argues from Matth. 19. 14. that baptizing did in nature antecede imposition of hands , which is false ; nor doth Heb. 6. 2. prove it . Nor is his argument good , Infants had the greater Christs blessing , therefore they had or might have the lesse , to wit Baptisme ; which reason if good , it would follow they might have the Lords Supper , be ordained Ministers : for these are lesse then Chris●s blessing . Afore the printing of this Apology , I met with and read a book of one Mr William Hussey a man unknown to me saving by a former treatise of his which I have seen , and he intitles it satisfaction to Master Tombes his scepticall exercitation : and in his Epistle to the Reader he saith , and here I will turn sceptique with Master Tombes . If I should give him the title of fantasticke in requitall of the title of scepticke he pins upon me , I could give better reason for it then he brings for his imposition of that new title on me : but it is enough for me to clear my self . Gel. l. 11. c. 5. noct . Attic. sayes , the ●y●honian Philosophers were called Sceptickes ; that is , seekers and considerers , because they determined nothing , but were alwayes in considering and seeking ; but Master Marshall thinks me guilty rather of too much selfe-confidence . Yea in this point though I did as I conceived befitting me then , propound my thoughts in the disputation with my brethren in the ministery , and in my Exercitation to the Committee of the Assembly under the term of doubts ; yet in my Examen I assert them as positions , and therefore that authour doth unworthily intitle my Exercitation scepticall , or me a scepticke : which is in effect if he understood what he sayes , to accuse me as adhering to nothing as certain in matters of sense , reason , or faith . But concerning the book though he intitle it satisf●action ▪ and the licenser sayes [ finding it to be in his judgement solid and judicious ] and I am pretty well acquainted with the humour of men , who are ready to cry up any thing as satisfactory , which they affect ; yet I beleive the Assembly will not conceive his book satisfactory , nor these passages following to be solid and judicious . As that in his Epistle to the Reader he calls Baptisme the seale of the proffer of Grace . pag. 3. I answer , that was an especiall priviledge of the Iewes that they had their civill lawes from God , but what lieth upon a nation as a duty that it may require of all , and cuts off them that refuse ! and this is implyed in the Commission , when Nations shall covenant to be Discip●●s , which may be done by a part for the whole , then are such ● are in commission from Christ commanded to baptize and teach the whole nation , such as are in authority may covenant in a nationall 〈◊〉 for the inferiour sort , and justly require all externall performances from them , such as baptisme and submission to b●e taught 〈◊〉 , pag. 4. And what a parent can doe over his child in matter of 〈◊〉 duty , ● that may the parents of the country , the Magistrates require of the nations . God requireth it of them , they may put all nations to schoole to Christ , Now , what if some of them be too young to learne , yet if they be under the discipline of the Master they are Schollers ? as may appeare in many litle children that are set to schoole to keepe them safe , and from wantonesse , before they be of capacity to learne , many have a Hornbooke given , more for a play-game then a booke , yet are they Schollers , because under the discipline and correction of the Master ; is it not therefore great reason , that a Christian should dedicate his child●● to Christ , to be partaker of the blessing and discipline of Christ ? pag. 5. And certainly words could not have been invented that could have required the Ministers to baptize all the World , Infants and all , willing or unwilling ; so that any would see they might be taught , and submit to the precepts and discipline of Christ , then to expresse it by the word nation and d●sciple . pag. 12. Abrahams seed must be divided into equivocall and univocall ; equivocall seed Christ , for that he was not like Abraham , he was of Abraham , but ex parte according to the flesh . Rom. 1. 3. He was the promised seed , not the seed unto whom the promise did belong , as the seed of Abraham . pag. 43. That which we argue from receiving of families , and from the Apostles commission to baptize nations is , that nations may make Lawes for their whole nations to be baptized ; and if the major part of a nation do according to their duty receive baptisme , and undertake for the whole nation to submit themselves to become Schollers of Christ , they may justly compell by any penalty to joyne with them in the externall worship of God. This therefore is it which is drawn from the commission directed to the Disciples for the baptizing of nations , that nations may act as nations , and families as families ; that is , that the more organ●all parts must act for the residue ▪ the magistrates for the nation , the master of the family for the residue , the magistrates for the nation , the master of the family for the family ; otherwise it cannot be said to be the act of the nation , or of the family , though a post factum may be historically related to overspread a nation that is done without a nationall consent , to shew the universality of a spreading evill : yet , where a duty is charged upon a nation , it cannot be orderly received without a nation ●ll consent . pag. 44. He that keepeth any servant that will not be baptized , is not a good Christian : it is true , all men of discretion ought to consent sent to every duty ; baptisme 〈…〉 precepts 〈◊〉 , it is pactum impositum pag. 40. The parties to be baptized are all nations , withoutany restriction 〈…〉 . If they that claime their interest in baptisme can undertake for whole nations , the commissioner : must not refuse them : the nation bel●eveth by the magistrate , by whose authority the whole nation is put to schoole to Christ , pag. 54. Men may require of him that is of years to consent to his baptisme . 〈…〉 a sinne , and punishing him for it as for adult●ry formation or any other publique offence . pag. 59. If any will bring Turkes children , and Infidels to baptisme , and 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of them in the doctrine of the Gospel , I know not but they may : and if 〈◊〉 would 〈◊〉 with their children to Christians , I thinke it were a very charitable thing so to do : For the promise was ●ever so tyed to Abrahams loyns , neither for ought I know , to any beleevers , but to education in the family of Abraham , or any other beleeving family . pag. 61. They that beleeve , and they that beleeve not heare the word , and 〈◊〉 is no 〈◊〉 of the work●● Preach it to 〈◊〉 Infidel , neither 〈◊〉 it any 〈◊〉 of baptisme , to baptize an Infidel . pag. 64. And indeed , 〈◊〉 were a very strange thing for the Sacrament of baptisme to be tendered to 〈…〉 , and approved , declared and 〈◊〉 to be 〈◊〉 ; it is true , it may be tendered to men this professe them faith , because man cannot judge them faithfull , notwithstanding any profession , and therefore baptize them ; but if they could know and judge them faithfull , they might give them the Lords Supper , in which all Christ is communicated , and baptisme should not be 〈◊〉 , baptisme is the seale of the tender of Christ , 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 power of his blo●d , 〈◊〉 of our Communion , or partaking of Christ ; that is sealed in the other Sacrament . pag. 64. It is true , adultus must have faith , such as it is , naturall , human : before he can be baptized , he must be willing by some inclination or other : it were barbarous to baptize a grown man àgainst his will , which could not be gotten but by some kind of 〈◊〉 , though it might be just with man to punish him with death that should refuse , as it is with God , to punish with eternall death such as despise baptisme . Nor do I thinke the principal ground of his new conceit pag. s. will satisfie , which is , that Matt. 28. 19. is thus to be expounded , make all Nations Disciples by baptizing them , and teaching : whereas he himselfe sundry times reads it better , make Disciples of all nations baptizing them , and it is vainely alleaged that [ by ] is implyed in the participiall expression , any more then verse 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must be expounded hee met them by saying , or Matth. 27. 55. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they followed by ministring unto him ; and I said justly , Examen pag. 127. this conceit is so absurd , that I presume none that hath any wit will entertain it , though Master Hussey say page 6 I thinke if ever a man were out of his wit , it was here : but I shall be willing the Assembly judge whether of us two need sayle to Anticyra to purge our braines . As for his answer to my book though I conceive it lettice fit for some lips , yet in my apprehension it containes a fardell of mistakes , in Logick , Divinity ; and sometimes in Grammar , but most of all of my meaning , and the scope of my words , and for●e of my reasons , which being diligently compared with his book , are a sufficient reply to it . And therefore though hee conclude with a challenge to me , yet he must pardon me if I make more account of my time then to cast it away in refusing such wild notions as he hath vented , except I shall have so much spare time as to write a booke to make sport with ; wishing nevertheless that Master Hussey had some schoole of Divinity as he desires , that he might be either better fitted to write , or learn to be silent . I have been larger in this matter then I intended at this time , that I might shew the vanity of Mr Leyes vaunt , and however God dispose of me , doe my indeavour to cleare the truth in this thing , and to prevent persecution of it through the provocation and exasperation of spirit towards Anti-paedobaptists , which since these writings have been published , hath many wayes discovered it selfe . If the Lord spare me life , liberty , and meanes , and it bee found necessary ; I may either more briefly or more largely rescue my treatises from their hands , who have ill handled them and perverted the truth . In the mean time this which is already said might serve a judicious Reader to answer the writing of my Antagonists though no more should follow . Mr Mar. book it appears from pag. 59. 212. 227. was contrived by divers : I beleeve the ablest of the Assembly , I wish it were declared whether the Paedobaptists would stick to that work or any other . I heare there are more yet to be printed , if the aime be to oppresse me with number , or to have this evasion ; that when one is answered , yet some other is not answered ; and so to uphold the errour still ( which is a way of Jesuites ) I doubt not but God will defend his truth . What hitherto is objected against my two Treatises and Appendix , I doubt not but with Gods assistance to answer . Afore I could finish this Apology , I have tasted the fruits of Mr Marshals , and Mr Gerees accusation in a message from the Benchers of both houses of the Temple ; that though they acknowledge my life and labours among them unreproveable , yet by reason of the publishing of my treatises they cannot continue me here . It was foretold me , that some of the assembly would not give over till they had outed me hence . If any of them have disswaded the people from hearing me , though they cannot shew that I have preached any other thing then Gospell truth ; if they use any arts to withdraw the people from me , I wish them to consider how they can acquit such actions from the sin of making schisme , and stopping the course of the Gospell for their own ends , not permitting any to preach the Gospell without concurrence in opinion with them , when as Paul rejoiced that Christ was preached ; though it added affliction to his bonds , Phil. 1. 18. what my desire was in the Prologue of my Examen , is still , that we may give one another the right hand of fellowship , and stand fast in one mind in the truth of the Gospell , and cleare the truth of God to the people whose eyes are upon us . I may call God to witnesse that my ayme in making and publishing my Treatises , was the benefit of the Assembly by making knowne to them reasons why the Doctrine of the Directory should be better examined , which would be their honour : if they disclaim me , reject me , repay evill for good , I hope God will help me to bear it , and to love them still , and joyn with them in promoting the work of Christ ; notwithstanding I meet with discouragements where I assured my selfe greatest encouragement . To conclude ; as the case now stands , I know not into what corner of the 〈…〉 world God may carry me , nor how I may be accommodated to publish any thing more either in this of Infant-baptisme , or any other point of sacred knowledge ; it is not a little comfort to me that I have framed this Apology , it shal be my witnesse in time to come that I have sought unity with truth ; and as I have made it my busines to preserve purity of doctrine , so I shal stil though I have neither found recompence nor help considerable from men , but rather am likely to meet with a consumption of estate , & a shortning of my dayes . However things succeed , I shall request that they that can pray , would beg for me that I may doe nothing against the truth , but for the truth ; and for the Churches of Christ , that the Pastors and teachers in them may take heed of bending their wits to maintaine what the prime reformers , and Churches ordered by them have avouched , rather then impartially and throughly to examine their doctrine , which as it is a great sin of making other masters then Christ , so it is a cause of most mischievous rents and contentions . FINIS . A Postscript , wherein is a reply to Mr. Blakes answer to my letter . Reader . BE pleased to take notice , that whereas I say p. 21. of this Apology . Molin in his Epistle to Bishop Andr●w●● ( if my memory deceive me not ) confessed is to have been 〈◊〉 ipsis Apostorum temporib●● , meeting since the printing of that passage , with the booke I find that in that Epistle he only confessed it to have been a secule Apostolis proximo , but Bishop Andrewes saith , he had put out that which elswhere he said ab Apostolorum sicul● . Whence my mistake of memory conceiving he had said it there , which he said elswhere , but altered it in that Epistle . 2. That though I had seen most of the latter part of Mr. Blakes answer to my letter have dayes before , yet I had not the whole booke till Aug. 3. 1646 , at which time the tenth s●eet of this Apology was printing off ; and therefore I cannot give thee so large 〈◊〉 on it , as I desired to doe ; yet I have thought it 〈◊〉 say thus much in this streight of time , as not knowing how I may be here●● fitted to write any more . The Book is ●hered with a preface of Mr. Calmys and Mr. 〈◊〉 , in which they say . The right of Infants to baptisme is ear●● strongly by 〈◊〉 arguments , if leg it 〈◊〉 couse quener can make a 〈◊〉 evidence . To which I say , that Master Marshals first argument is accounted the strongest , and that is far from being 〈◊〉 , as hath been shewed above . They say The 〈◊〉 of the Church in all ages in baptizing them is 〈◊〉 by such unde●● testimonies of credible witnesses , that he that doth not see it may well be called Strabo , that is , goggle eyed . How true this is the Reader may perceive by the Examen of Master Marshals Sermon , and this Apology . The best or rather only witnesse of ancients for such a practise is August●n concerning whom how litle reason there is to count his speech and undiable hath been before declared here , and in the Examen . They say of the Birth-priviledge of Master Blake : where thou shalt find the question so truely stated , and set upon the right Basis , and so well fortified , that though there hath been a dust raised ( by some who have a better faculty to raffle and intricate an argument than to wind it off ) yet there is not the least wing of it routed . To this I say , the state of the question hath small difficulty , litle or no disagreement between me and Master Marshall , and Master Geree , and I thinke the like of others . If by the Basi● is meant Master Blakes observation pag. 3. of the Birth-priviledge , A people that enjoy Gods ordinances convey to their issue a 〈◊〉 to be reputed of a society that is holy , to be numbred amongst not ●ncleane , but holy . This observation is ambiguous , it may be true in a sense , that it so happens frequently ; but if it be meant in this sense , that they convey by their generation of them a right of visible Church-membership , and title to the initiall seale , as it is usually called it is not true : which onely serves for the purpose . Now the wings by which that observation is fortifyed out of the new Testament , ( wherein the strength lyes ) are Acts 2. 38. 39. Rom. 11. 16 , 17. 1 Pet. 2. 9. Gal. 4. 29. Gal. 2. 15. 1 Cor. 7. 14. now for three of these to wit 1 Pet. 2. 9. Gal. 4. 29. Gal. 2. 15. they flye of themselves , the first expressely being spoken of them onely that beleeve , v. 7. the second to wit , being born after the flesh , cannot be understood as importing a priviledge or benefit , it being spoken of persons to the worser sense , and causing a casting , out of the inheritance : the third is meant not of a Jew allusively so called , but of a Jew by naturall generation , opposed to a Gentile , and so cannot be said of the children of believing Gentiles ; nor can all Master Blakes words keep them from running out of the field . The text Acts 2. 39. if it be understood ( as it must ) of the promise of saving graces by Christ cannot be verified of any but those that are called , which it being confessed to limit the first , branch of the Propposition , and the last , you , and as many as are afarre off ; it is to mee against reason and truth that it should be left out in the middle , that is , that when it is said the promise is to you , and to all that are afarre off being called , it should be asserted in that branch that is between , the promise is to your children whether called or not . Of Rom. 11. 16 , 17. I have said sufficiently before . Of 1 Cor. 7. 14. somewhat also before : and intend more in this postscript . If Mr Calamy and Mr. Vines accuse me of raising a dust , and raffling and intricating an argument ( which I imagine they doe because the raising of a dust is Master Marshals phrase ) they are answered in this Apology . My entring into the lists with Mr Marshall was not out of choice as valuing my self , as they mistake ; but out of necessity lead thereto by providence of God. How well I have acquitted my selfe may appeare by the bringing of Master Marshall to many concessions which overthrow his first argument . Whether this answer of Master Blake be sinewy for argument , I hope in time to examine . I conceive that to put the question upon the right Basis , is to examine whether the formall reason why the Jewes were circumcised , were their interest in the Covenant ? whether there be the same Church-state now that was then ? whether any command about the Jewes Sacraments now bind us ? But I passe to Mr Blakes answer . Mr Blake chargeth me with defect and neglect of charity . For the former I doe not take my writing to discover it , what I shall deprehend I have failed in , I shall I hope confesse to God , and to Master Blake when we meet . My not speaking to Master Blake was , because I presumed Master Marshall had acquainted him with the thing , and the reason of printing my Treatises as they were is declared above . Why I would not take upon me the place of opponent in the dispute with my brethren I gave the reason , because the argument would presently lead them to oppose ; this being al my argument against Infant-baptism that I could wel urge in dispute , that it is not appointed by God , and so presently upon one or two syllogismes they must become opponents again , sith affirmanti incumbit probatio ; I sent not my Exercitation to my opponents because I was advised to send to the Committee , named in the Prologue of my Examen ; the rest is answered in the Apology . To the point of antiquity in Ch. 2. I thinke not needfull to adde any more here . To the third chapter sect . c. Master Blake because I said Examen pag. 144. these I mention , that you may see what stuffe Paedobaptists do feed the people with , doth the●● against reason , and charity inferre , that I branded therein all the Ministers of Christ that ever held Infant-baptisme , whereas my speech being indefinite should in such a contingent matter have been interpreted only as equipollent to a particular proposition , 〈◊〉 the words were used onely of that Author , and such as delivered like doctrine , with particular exception of Master Marshall , and many others there named . Passion I confesse was in me sometimes in writing my examen , a mixt passion of griefe , and indignation , that Preachers of the Gospell should be so hard , as then I found , and saw likely would be more ; to their dissenting brethren upon such weake reasons . But such contu●●licus consurer and practises as Master Blakes sinister conceits p●t upon me I deny . To the second section I answer , that I still conceive , they that deny Infant-baptisme , and grant originall sinne , are 〈◊〉 necessitated to say that Infants perish in their births●● . It is true as Master Blake sayes , they that will hold a certainty of the salvation of such Infants , they must maintain a promise or covenant to them ; but such a covenant I deny to be made as assures salvation to the Infants of beleevers : and I have proved at large , Examen part . 3. § . 4. there is not such a Covenant . If that Gen. 17. 7. be produceed I have proved that it was particularly spoken of Abrahams feed , expounded Rom. 9. 8. not to be meant of his naturall feed , but spirituall , and therefore till it be proved that all Infants of believers dying in Infancy , are Abrahams spirituall feed ; that promise will not inferre the certainty of their salvation . Therefore , this is my judgement : that God will have us to suspend our judgement of this matter , & to rest on the Apostles determination . Rom. 9. 18. But they that hold that there is no certainty of their salvation , are not necessitated to hold a certainty of their perdition , for there is a medium between both , a hope though not certain , yet probable , and comfortable , that the children of believers dying in their Infancy are saved ; taken from some generall indefinite promises : the favour of God to the parents , and the experience that in all ages hath been had of his mercifull dealing with the children of his servants ; all which cannot be said of the Infants of Infidels , though on the other side we must not so exclude the Infants of Infidels , as to affirme that none of them are saved . For though the Gentiles were without hope Ephes . 2. 12. in respect of the body of them , yet now and then God called some , as Rab●● out of the visible Ch●●ch , and therefore we may not determine universally that out of the visible Church there is no sal●●tion at all : but leave this to Gods free-will . It doth not 〈◊〉 follow , tha● beathens have equall hopes of sal●●●ion with Infants of 〈…〉 . For though they have not hopes from their innocency in themselves , or certaine interest in Christ ; yet they have more probable hopes of interest in Christ upon the g●●●ds 〈…〉 . And thus is that section answered . The fourth chapter is about my censure of his argument from Gal. 41 ▪ 29. as containing very grosse passages . He ace●seth me as one that intended not any 〈…〉 , because I bring but one branch of the 〈◊〉 in his argument , and yet call it his medium , But ●ith I intended not a full answer to him but to Master Marshall it was enough that I onely reci●ed that in which was indeed the strength of his argument , which was that birth after the flesh , ascribed to some now , Gal. 4. 29. imports a priviledge , 〈…〉 Church int●●st to 〈…〉 the bos●● of the Church of Christians . In saying this was very grosse , I sayed no more then that which was right : the Apostle opposing persons borne after the flesh , to them that are borne after the spirit , to be cast out , and not to inherit . But sayes Master Bl●ke , you shut out the literall sense of birth after the flesh , both from the history , and parallel , and bring a● allagericall 〈◊〉 in both , when the 〈◊〉 in the text is evident . I answer , I shut not out the literall sense from the history , but from the parallel ; and that i● so farre from being contrary to the text , that it is expresly said , these things are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . But he further objects : you make birth after the flesh , and birth of the spirit , two contradistinct species of births , that both cannot be incident 〈…〉 it is the distribution of a subject 〈…〉 I answer , I make them not onely contradistinct , but also contra●● ; and I deny that it is a distribution 〈…〉 For them the same person should be both borne after the flesh and after the spirit . which I would tell Master Blake to be very absurd , but that I would give him no more occasion to say I do insult , whoop , and jeere , which he unjustly chargeth on me . And for that he saith , that Isaack was borne after the flesh , ( though it be true , he was so in the two senses Master Blake mentions which are nothing to this place of the Apostle ) it is untrue in the Apostles sense , for then he should be the child of the bondmayd ; not by promise , a persecutor to be cast out not to inherit , and a type of legall justiciaries belonging to the covenant in mount Sinai , for all these things are true of him that is borne after the flesh , Gal. 4 , 22 , &c. But the Apostle doth not say , that they are cast out , but mentions a command of casting them out . As if Gods dictum were not factum : if they were not cast out , why doth the Apostle alleage that text ? But they are in the Church , otherwise they could not be cast out . I answer , I deny not but legall institiaries may be in the visible Church , as Ishmael in Abrahams house ; though the Apostle make the parallel only in the casting out that they might not inherit , but if Master Blake would gather any thing hence for his purpose , he must prove that the Apostle makes some to be in the visible Church , by vertue of being borne after the flesh as their prerogative , which is as wide from the Apostles meaning , as East & West . But saith Master Blake where I pray you , do I make suoh Abrahams seed ? it is no grosse errour of mine , but a grosse device or calumny of yours . I answer , his words [ if there yet remaine in the bosome of the Church children borne after the flesh , so that distinction of births ( as applied to Abrahams seed ) still hath place amongst beleeving Christians ] shew that he applied birth of the flesh to Abrahams seed , else why are those words put in [ at applied to Abrahams seed ] but to shew a double seed of Abraham , one borne after the flesh , which is all one with the Apostle as legall institiaries , another borne after the spirit , which is all one as bebeleevers ? so that this is Master Blakes tergiversation , not my calumny . In The fifth chapter Mr Blake complaines , that I take more paines then needs to find out Master Marshals meaning in his second conclusion , and after . And indeed I never saw a learned man so run himselfe into a maze needlesly , as you in this discourse do ; being at a stand ; you say , whether Master Marshall meanes a covenant of grace , or outward ordinances , as though these two were opposite , and priviledge of ordinances were not of grace , or that saving grace could be had , in Gods ordinary way , without this priviledge . To acquit my selfe of this imputation , I say , that it was very necessary to take that paines I did , to bring my selfe out of that maze which I had not run my selfe into ; but the confusednesse and ambiguity of Master Marshals expressions lead me into . Master Marshall had made this the anteceedent in his first argument , The Infants of beleeving parents are faederati , or within the covenant of grace ; This I conceived to be the same with his second conclusion , though against the rule of dispute he varies the terme [ faederati , or within the covenant of grace ] into this , [ he would have to be accounted his , to belong to him , to his Church and family , and not to the Devils ] which I do not take to be equipollent . This necessitated me to shew the many senses of his words , and to take paines to find out his meaning ; else I , knew not what to deny , or what to grant . Now , to clear the matter : when it is said , Infants of beleevers are faederati , or in the covenant of grace , this may be understood three wayes . 1 They are in the covenant of grace by their owne act of covenanting , because they promise the performance of the condition on their part , and this sense is manifestly false ; and yet when Master Marshall sayes they are to be accounted covenanters , he speakes as if he meant so : For what is a covenanter but he that makes a promise ? 2 They are in the covenant of grace by the administratours act , because he gives them the seale of the covenant ; but then the second conclusion should be , they are baptized or to be baptized , now this being the same with the antecedent of Master Marshals first argument , his argument must be thus ; Infants of beleevers are baptized , or to be baptized , ergo they are to be baptized , which is meerly to trifle : and yet as I shewed above , this is the effect of Master Marshals arguing , who will have his second conclusion , and antecedent understood of the outward covenant , as he cals it . 3 They are in the covenant of grace by Gods act of promise , and this is that which Master Marshall should have said , if he would have spoken plainly without equivocation , God by his promise to the Infants of beleevers puts them in the covenant of grace , or he accounts them in the covenant of grace , because he hath promised grace 〈◊〉 them , and not have said God would have them accounted his by us , by giving them the outward covenant , as he calls it . Now , if he affirme this , that God hath promised grace to Infants of beleevers , this grace is either saving grace , or outward ordinances . But saith Master Blake these are not opposite , but sub●●dinate . Be it so , yet they are distinct , and the promise of the one is not a promise of the other : the promise of the Word and Sacraments , is not a promise of the Spirit . Now here was the doubt , whether Master Marshall affirme a promise of saving grace to beleevers Infants , or of outward ordinances . I said neither was true , yet the former was more agreeable to his meaning . To prove this I alleaged , that though sometimes Master Marshall , Master Blake and others spake more warily , ( in which I dealt candidly with Master Blake , reciting his expresse words full enough for the purpose ) yet I said most of Mr. Marshals and others expressions , and one expression of Master Blake spake as if they meant that God had made a covenant , or promise of saving grace . And to prove it to be their meaning : produced their allegation of these textes , Acts 2. 39. Gen. 17. 7. Matt. 19. 14. which are to be understood of saving grace , and that otherwise the seale would be put to a blanke , and that Master Blake saith , God promiseth to be a God in covenant to his and their seed , which people in covenant have also a promise from him of the Spirit . Now what sayes Master Blake to this , he denyes not that these texts speake of a promise of saving grace , but askes me how 's they are meant , whether absolutely or immediately ? and then fastens upon me an assertion that is none of mine , and I beleeve wrongs Master Blackwood too . But herein Master Blake goes from the businesse , and instead of a respondent becomes a poser●● proved these texts alleaged by them for Infants being in the covenant of grace speake of a promise of saving grace , and therefore if Master Marshall meane not that the covenant of saving grace is made to a beleevers child , these texts are alleged to no purpose by him . This is no place to answer Mr. Blakes unpertinent questions ; which he propounds to me as supposing that because I said , the texts are plainely meant of saving graces , therefore I had affirmed the Jewes and all their seed had an absolute , promise of a saving grace : let Master Blake tell us whether in alleaging Gen. 17. 7. Acts 2. 39. for infants of beleevers being in the Covenant , he understand not those texts of a promise of saving grace , which is all I there contend for . As for Mat. 19. 14. it is pl●●●ly meant of the kingdome of glory ; Luk. 18 , 16. 17 Mark. 10. 14 , 15. And for the speech of sealing to a blanke , &c. Whether it be true or false it was not materiall to my purpose ; but whether it shew that he users of it assert a promise of saving grace to beleevers . Mr Blake upon a mistake , that I had set down sundry things as my assertions chargeth 〈◊〉 as using Bellarmines argument , and s●ts down his own answer out of Amesius , besides the b●sines who onely alleaged other mens speeches to shew their meaning . As for his own speech he endeavours to make it good , which for present was not excepted against , but onely alleaged to to shew that even Mr Blake asserts a promise of saving grace to 〈◊〉 of beleevers , for a promise of the Spirit is such . But saith Mr Blake , Some promises 〈◊〉 suppose a condition : such is the promise of the Spirit 〈◊〉 here I understand it , and you may see in Christs words John 7. 39. in the Apostle 〈◊〉 ; Ephes . 1. 13. To which I say that it is true of the speciall gifts of the Spirit , or the increase , or comforts , or assurance of the Spirit ; as John 7. 39. Ephes . 1. 13. they suppose a condition , but if hee meane it of the regenerating work of the Spirit , ( as the words lead me to conceive he meant ) then the promise of the Spirit hath no condition , as Doctor 〈◊〉 proves in many places particularly . The Synod of Dort ●●d Arl● , &c. part . 3. Sect. 6. and it is cleare , for if God have promised regenerating grace upon condition , that condition must be performed either by himselfe or by the person to whom it is ●●●ised ; if the condition he to be performed by himselfe . it is all one with an absolute promise ; if by the person to whom it is promised , then something may be done by a man that may procure Gods grace , and so gratia Dei datur secundum merita nostra , which is Palagi●●sme . Now they that say the Covenant of grace in respect of saving graces is made to a beleevers seed ; must either exclude the 〈◊〉 promise in the Covenant of grace , Heb. 8. 10 of 〈◊〉 God 〈◊〉 their hearts , without which he is not their God ; or else hold that promise absolute , & so al infants of beleivers 〈◊〉 be 〈…〉 saved . Yet that this is the common doctrine , 〈◊〉 beleevers children have a promise of saving graces , is manifest in that from hence they assert the certainty of their salvation if they dye in infancy , not considering that if God have made such a promise to a beleevers seed , it will as well assure the salvation of a beleevers seed in old age as infancy ; sith in old age they are their seed , and the promise in respect of regenerating grace , which brings with it all the rest , must needs be absolute . And therefore the promises Deut. 30. 6. Isai . 54. 13. and such like must be restrained to the elect as our Saviour doth ; John 6. 45. & Gen. 17. 47. is expounded by Paul , Rom 9. 8. I had said Mr Marshals words must be understood as the words of the Directory , the promise is made to beleevers and their seed ; which is to be meant of the promise of saving grace . Mr Blake conceives the meaning to be of the promises mentioned , that they are the grace promised , but I perceive he did not or would not understand my words : I did not speak of the word [ promises ] in the direction for petition , that Mr Marshals conclusion must interpreted by it ; but of the word [ promise ] in that assertion in the doctrinall part [ the promise is made to beleevers and their seed ] which cannot be interpreted of the thing promised ; but Gods act of promise , which is said to be made , to wit by him : afore the promised is obtained . So that this new devise will not serve the words of the Directory . I had said . And that in that Covenant ( Gen. 17. 7. ) should be a promise to us beleeving Gentiles ( which words Mr Blake leaves out in the repetition ) that to our seed should be conferred visible Church-priviledges , &c. is but a dream , &c. to this saith M. Bl. This objection riseth up against God himselfe , rather then any one of your adversaries . But how this should rise up against God , Mr Blake neither doth nor can shew : Mr Blake seems to runne to his old shift , that God promiseth Church-priviledges upon condition . If so , Cede conditionem . Let Mr Blake set down that condition , and I doubt not but either to force him to confesse that the reason of the preaching the Gospell to some & their being visible members , is something in man which will be Pelagianisme , or else Gods promise is absolute ; and so God not keeping it shall be guilty of Faith-breaking . Master Marshall , pag. 127. of his Defence accuseth me that I sometimes say that Gen. 17. 7. was a promise peculiar to Abraham , at other times it was at the utmost to be extended no further then to Abraham Isaac and Jacob , to have their posterity ( as born of them ) to belong to the visible Church . But Master Marshall wrongs me , I have neither of these Propositions in either of my Treatises ; what I conceive of it I have set down plainly , Exercit. pag. 2. 3. But Master Marshall would have the promise , I will be the God of thy seed as promising visible Church-membership to belong to the naturall seed of every beleever . 1. because the Covenant was made to him for his Faiths sake . Ans . if that were the motive , yet it followes not the promise belongs to every beleever as Abraham ; no more then it followes , the promise , Matth. 16. 18 , 19. was made to Peter by reason of his confession , verse 16. therefore it was made to every one that confesseth as Peter did , 2. How else should Proselytes children have Church-membership . Answ . Not by vertue of that promise , but by vertue of Gods command . Exod. 12. 48 To his third reason I have often answered and proved , that Deut. 30. 6. Isai 44. 2 , 3. Isai 59. 21. must be meant of the elect , else how did God keep that promise when he did not circumcise the heart of Davids and Josiahs children . Master Marshall pag. 129. puts this upon me ; that I say God made this promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob , to be the God of them , and their seed . But I doe not remember that I say so any where , nor that the Scriptures sayes so though I meet with promises somewhat like it , Gen. 26. 24 Gen. 28. 4. 14. But these promises so farre as they pertain to their naturall seed , were peculiar to them ; and pertain not to every beleever , and his naturall seed . For none of the Gentiles are Abrahams seed , but by Faith. From all which I conclude , there is not a promise either of saving grace or Church-priviledge made to the seed of beleevers , and so they are not certainly in the Covenant of grace ; in respect of Gods act of promising . Master Blake sayes , What will you say of those that remembred that God was their rocke and the high God their redeemer ; yet were not stedfast in his Covenant : Psalm . 78. 35. 37. These were a people within Covenant . I say this to it , that by his covenant is not meant Gods Covenant or promise to them , but their Covenant to God ; or rather Gods commands called metonymically his Covenant . Master Blake saith , And where I pray you doe you find those words that christianity is hereditary ? These are no words of mine but a supplement of yours . I answer , these words are Master Blakes Birth-previledge , pag. 6. The priviledges which in 〈◊〉 or nation are hereditary are conveyed from 〈◊〉 to posterity , the the child of a noble man is noble , so the child of a christian is a christian , and this is all one as to say christianity is 〈◊〉 . I passe by the vindicating of two speeches of mine in this chapter , because I must hasten . To the sixth chapter I have spoken so much as is needfull before . In the seventh Master Blake accuseth me for abusing Master Thomas Goodwin , but there is no abuse all ; for my words onely make use of Master Goodwins expression , which Master Blake denies not to have been his , but that he altered it , which may be unwitting to me . But for the thing I still say that the Cerinthians doubt was not about their children . For that which is the doubt is to be the conclusion of his argument that resolves it , but that which the Apostle speaks of the Corinthians children , it is plain by the argumentative particles [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 else ware ] is a medium of a syllogism , as Mr Blake page 37. denies not ; now 〈◊〉 prob●● est per notiora therefore it was not the thing ●● doubt . Besides ver . 15 , 16. following pertain to the resolution of the doubt vers● 12 , 13. which shewes that they are all a continued resolution of the same doubt , without any such immethodicall interposition of the resolution of another doubt ; as Mr Blake imagines . As for the occasion of the scruple , sith neither of our opinion● is any other then a conjecture , I let it passe . One passage of Mr Blakes in these words . And I pray you speake what how you doe beleeve , that the Corinthiane tooke it , for a common received principle ; that if a man had as adulterous wife , that his children were legitimate , and not bastards ; so it must be if you opinion passe for a reason . I know not how he collects from my words ; I say that the Corinthians took it for certain that their owne children were holy , that is legitimate ; and I say the force of the Apostles argument lies in this Proposition , that all the children of those parents , whereof one is not sanctified to the other , that is , doe not lawfully couple together are unclean , that is illegitimate ; and that the Apostle saith , the unbeleeving husband is sanctified to the wife , that is , is lawfully used by his wife because hee is her husband , as if he had been holy : out of which , all the engines of Mr Blakes wit cannot extort the inference he puts on my opinion . In the second section Mr Blake sayes , that I heard before Mr Goodwins Lectures of instrumentall sanctification . If it were so , yet I professe I did never heed or know it so as to take notice of it till I heard Mr Thomas Goodwin use the phrase . Mr Blake to my first argument against instrumentall sanctification , saith ; And is not this argument of yours of as great force against your interpretation of a matrimoniall , as ours of an instrument all sanctification ? I answer no : for they that cannot beget children may be said to be sanctified matrimonially , that is , may lawfully come together ; but not instrumentally so as to beget a holy seed , which is Master Blakes sense . For they that by age or accidentall inabilities cannot be sanctified for generation , cannot beget children either by Covenant or legitimate . Mr Blake addes . The sanctifying by the beleeving party here mentioned , respects the issue which you confesse in grounding a legitimation of issue upon it . I grant where there is issue , the holinesse of it depends on the sanctification ; but where there is sanctification , it is not alwayes supposed there is issue , or that there may be issue : to the begetting of which , they are instrumentally sanctified . Mr Blake . This sanctifying ( whether instrumentall or matremoniall ) hath its influence upon the seed ; such a brand lying upon all the issue , where there is issue ( be it bastardy or gentilisme ) were enough to conclude against such marriages , one principal end of marriage being posterity . He supposeth it seems , that uncleanenes is here meant , which is such a brand on the issue as is enough to conclude against all such marriages . This is very right , but I subsume that brand in all the issue where there is issue ; which were enough to conclude against all such marriages is bastardy , not gentilism . For bastardy in the issue proves the supposed marriage not to be right , but gentilisme in the issue concludes nothing against the marriage : Ergo , the uncleanenesse here is bastardy , not gentilism . And thus he hath unawares given the medium of an argument against himself . To my second argument for matrimoniall sanctification , he saith . I know you cannot ignorantly , and therefore I feare you wilfully mistake , the meaning is , you may live together : for all the seed you beg at are ●oly , infallibly , and necessarily holy , as the seed of infidels ( neither parent beleeving ) are necessarily & infallibly unclean ; so that here is a future certainty , and not a contingency ; & it is not possible to imagine a morefull and 〈◊〉 answer 〈◊〉 which I say I am sure Mr Blake is mistaken , whether ignorantly or wilfully , I determine not ; for he speakes of certainty of the holinesse of the children in the latter part of the verse , whereas the question is whether instrumentall sanctification for the begetting a holy issue ; of which the sanctification in the fore part of the verse is expounded , be contingent or no : and this I am sure is true , and therefore their lawfull living together for present according to Mr Blakes exposition should be taken from a future contingent , which Chamier truly counted absurd , though as happy a Logician as he was , he foresaw not how it served against himselfe . Bernardus non vider omnia . To my third argument he saith . Here you beg the question and reason flat against the Apostle . That sanctifying which the Apostle mentions is aresult of the faith of the beleeving yoke-fellow , the unbeleever is twice said to be sanctified , but not the beleever ; the beleever doth sanctify , if any sense can be made of the Apostles argument . I answer . He begs the question , who supposeth what he should prove : Mr Blake doth not , nor can shew I doe so ; nor doe I reason flat against the Apostle ; the Apostle no where saith the sinctifying is the result of the faith of the beleeving yoke-fellow , if it were so , an unbeleeving fornicatour might be said to be sanctified by his beleeving whore , as well as a husband by his beleeving wife . The unbeleever is said twice to be sanctified , because the doubt arose from his unbeleefe ; but the saith of the beleever is not at all expressed , to shew that the faith did not sanctifie , but the relation . But if it were meant of instrumentall sanctification , it would come from Gods designation , not the faith of the one party . For whose instrument should he be that is sanctified for begetting a holy seed but Gods ? now to this nothing is answered , and so this argument stands good against Mr Blake . To my fourth argument he saith . Understanding the Apostle of instrumentall sanctification and of federall holinesse , the proposition [ their children could not be holy without that sanctification ] is most true , necessarily and universally true , as the issue of such a birth , they are federally unclean and unholy ; if afterwards by grace they are changed , this is no finit of their birth , of which the question is in this place , but of the Gospell work in their soules , To which I say the question is not here what is the fruit of birth , not how the Proposition can be true understood of federall holinesse , and instrumentall sanctification . And I say it is most certainly false , for many a child of both unbeleeving parents are federally holy . But saith Mr Blake , they are not so at their birth . But this is nothing to the purpose , sith the Proposition hath not those words in it , no● the Apostle . The Apostles reason supposeth it cannot be at any time . And yet it may bee certaine that the child of two unbeleevers may be federally holy at birth whether it be understood of election , inherent holinesse , or outward holinesse , if God please to work and declare it . But the issue of them that are not lawfully conjoyned as husband and wife , cannot be made legitimate by God because it is contrary to the definition of legitimation , which is a state consequent upon birth by the lawfull copulation of lawfull husband and wife . To my Analysis of the Apostle● argument , Mr Blake saith the last words , else were , &c. may be a m●d●● , and a resolution of another doub● 〈◊〉 : but that cannot be , 〈◊〉 it is an argument and that is 〈◊〉 drawn from the thing in doubt , 〈◊〉 à 〈◊〉 ; and that 〈…〉 which they would not yeeld , but the contrary was certain to them . Mr Blake mislikes not my forming the Apostles argument , but he excepts against the Proposition I conceive the Apostles sequele p●supposeth ; which is , All the children of those parents whereof the one is not sa●ctified to the other , are 〈…〉 . To this faith Mr Blake , I appeale to your selfe , whether the truth of that sequel , by you rightly laid down , doe depend upon tha● Proposition which you draw from them● I answer , it doth . Mr Blake . Is the Apostle : 〈◊〉 Proposition of parents in generall , 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 beleeving , and another unbeleeving in particular ? I answer , it is of an unbeleeving husband and a wise . And yet the Proposition must be 〈◊〉 be of all parents which must prove it ; as he that will prove , if an Englishman be noble he is honourable , must prove it by this universall or 〈◊〉 . All noble men are honourable , and not put in , all English 〈◊〉 noble ; for then the antecedent and conclusion would be al●ong : whereas the Proposition proving must be larger then the Proposition proved ; else we might conclud● , ex meris 〈◊〉 . To 〈◊〉 if the unbeleeving ●●●band were not sanctified by the wife your children were unclean , is all one with this . All the children of the unbeleeving husband not sanctified to the wife , are uncleane . Mr Blake saith , The truth of the Apostles sequele depends on this Proposition ; All the children of an nobeleever are unclean , unlesse for generation , he or shee be sanctified by a beleever . I deny it , for the termes for generation by a beleever are added by him , not in the Apostle ; and so he changeth the terms . Yet it is to be noted that though the Apostles major be of husband and wife in particular , Mr Blake makes the Proposition on which it depends of unbeleevers in generall , and so by his own practife justifies me against his owne exception . 2. The Proposition Mr Blake layes down as upon which the major in the Apostle syllogisme depends . All the children of an unbeleever are unclean , unlesse for generation be or shee be sanct fied by a beleever , is false ; and so is that which he saith after . All those that are borne of unbeleeving parents , and one of them not sanctified in the other , are out of the Covenant of grace , yea the other is false too , according to Mr Blakes opinion ; unbeleeving parents never beget children by birth-priviledge holy . For children born of infidels brought into Abrahams family had right to circumcision , and so were by birth-priviledge holy in Mr Blakes sense . Mr Blake tels me , the Apostles Proposition according to my interpretation is this . All the children of an unbeleever are bastards , except in generation he or shee be sanctified by a beleever . But this I deny : I have set down the Proposition according to my interpretation plainly enough already . My alleaging Chamiers words against his opinion was no jeare , but a right way of using an authors reasons against another , against his own opinion . And that I did rightly , for these Propositions according to Chamiers explication are included in the Apostles reason . omnes nati ex tis parentibus quorum al●ur non sanctificatur in al ero sunt extra foedus gratiae . Nunquam parentes infideles gignunt liberos intra foedus gratiae fusuros . The adding [ futuros ] was necessary , because their being in the Covenant of grace is after their begetting ; if I had said , qui fuerunt nut sunt intra foedus gratiae , M. Blake would justly then have had exception against me as not righly setting down Chamiers conceit : now those Propositions of ●hamier are false ; and consequently his explication according to his own grounds . The putting in [ aut fornicantes ] was , because I would include both explications of the forepart of the verse , both that of matrimoniall , which I conceive was Beza's and that of instrumentall sanctification . The using of the term rid●ca●lam , was no more a jear of Chamier then his using of it a jeare of Augustin . But my An agonists are so touchy , that expressions that are not so much as motes in other mens eyes are beames in mine . To the exceptions of Master Blake . pag. 40. I say , though I did not keep his words , yet I keep the effect of them . If he use not the term Covenant of grace , yet I suppose he will not deny he meant that which usually Divines expresse by it in this point , though Master Blake thinkes the word Covenant of grace cannot be found in his treatise for baptism , yet if he please he may find the word Covenant of free grace , pag. 14. of his birth-priviledge used to that purpose I ascribe to him where he saith , the holinesse he maintaines is from the Covmam of free grace to all in the faith , and their seed . My explication of 〈◊〉 meaning of the Apostles words Master Blake sayes is almost the same with his in terminis . Then I have not wronged the Apostle , and it followes the Apostle cals himselfe a Jewe by nature , as tied to keep the law of Moses . Now I called it a dreame to make Gal , 2. 15. 1 Cor. 9. 14. every way p●● allel , they neither agreeing in scope , occasion , words , nor matter , which are dissimilitudes enough . I grant his sense of the word nature , and that the Apostle there speakes of himselfe and other . Jewes as in reputation more holy then the Gentiles , because of their interest in circumcision and observance of Moses law , but this was proper to the Jewes in that Church-state , who had prerogatives peculiar to them . Master Rutherford Due right of Presbyteries . chap. 4. sect . 5. pag 192. That they had prerogatives above us is cleare , Rom. 3. 1 , 2 , 3. Rom. 9. 4. But I deny that , a holinesse of birth flowing from a parent beleeving , and in Covenant is asserted , 1 Cor. 7. 14. The term sin●●● of the Gentiles is not all one with uncleane , 1 Cor. 7. 14. B●●●ne chiefe thing he brings that text for , is to prove that our children have a Covenant holinesse because they are to be comprehended under the first member of the distinction Jewes by natu●●● . I wondered at this his collection , but it seems Master Blake takes the term Jewes not properly for people so called because borns in Judes , or of Jewish descent , but allusively as Rom. 2. 28. 29. But Master Blaks doth not observe that the terme Jewe allusively taken is a term common to all godly people , or beleevers , whereas here Jew is taken as opposite to them that are of the Gentiles ; and the denomination of a Jew allusively taken is not from nature or birth , as here Master Blake rightly expounds the word nature , but from faith , as the term seed of Abraham , and the Israel of God , and the term circumcision Philip. 3. 3. so that Master Blakes owne exposition overthrowes his owne inference . But then saith Master Blake , our children must be under [ sinners of the Gentiles ] and so they are aliens dogs without hope , &c. Ephes . 2. 12. I answer , our children are of the Gentiles , who were sinners , and as the Apostle spea●●s Ephes . 2. 12. at that time that went before their calling strangers from the Covenant of promise , &c. But it doth not follow that he that saith our children are of the Gentiles , who were once strangers from God , and so called sinners according to their condition then , must hold that they 〈◊〉 now . The most godly beleever now is under the second mother of the distinction , being born of Gentile parents , and yet not as the Gentiles were then , stranger from Christ . Master Blake is most vaine in saying , that by my t●not there were ne more hope of the salvation of a Christians Inf●●● then of Numa , I acknowledge no such matter , nor doth any such thing follow from my words , which are plaine and true ; Master Blake should , if he would have dealt fairly ; have showed 〈◊〉 of which words , and how that followes which he obtand 〈◊〉 me . When I said the Iewes birth priviledge did not 〈◊〉 them to the Covenant of grace , I meant the same with the Apostle , 〈◊〉 yet they had this benefit by their birth that they were among the people of God , had the priviledge of 〈◊〉 according to the Church-state then , were to eat the 〈◊〉 ; come into the court of the Temple , had the law , Christ was to come of them , Rom. 9. 4 , 5. Rom. 3. 〈◊〉 and yet many of them not children of the promise . The 〈◊〉 of grace being made by God doth promise to all and every person to whom that Covenant is made , that he shall be effectually wrought upon . I said , the common priviledge of cir●●●sion belonging to the Jewes , did not arise from the Covenant of gr●● , recording to the substance , of it ; but according to the administration that then was . My meaning was circumcision was common to them which had no part in the Covenant made with Abraham , Gen. 17. neither an interest in the Evangelicall , nor houshold promises made to Abraham , as for instance Ismael : and therefor I say it did not arise from the Covenant of grace , or parents faith as the formal reason why Infants were circumcised , but from Gods command according to that Church-state that then he thought good to appoint . This being clear from Gal. 3 & 4. Master Blake interprets it , as if I had said circumcision was not a signe of the substance of the Covenant , and runs out in a large discourse to prove the contrary ; which toucheth not me who have expressely granted it Exercit : pag. 3. Examen pag. 39 , &c. And it is a meer calumny in Master Blake , to to tell me that I close with the Jesuites , and with high disdaine shake off the doctrine of the Protestants . But saith Master Blake , pag. 43. you say in your exercitation , pag. 2. The Covenant made with Abraham is not a p●●e Gospell Covenant , but mixt . In the same place I explaine my meaning , and prove it so fully , that I wonder that Master Marshall , Master Blake and others are not ashamed to except against it . What the Jesuites say in this matter , or what the Protestants say against them , I have not time to examine . The thing , as I deliver it , is plaine according to Scripture : that there were some peculiar promises made to Abraham , Ge. 17. which are not made to every beleever . To tell us that godlinesse hath the promise of the life that now is , 1 Tim. 4. 8. is nothing to the present purpose , for it doth not follow therefore that godlinesse hath the promise of the Land of Canaan or that Christ should be every godly mans seed , &c. Mr Blake saith , circumcision was a fruit of the faith of the parents , but this is false ; for then all , & none but children of beleevers were to be circumcised , which is not true : whose children soever they were , if in Abrahams house , if bought with money of any stranger , they were to be circumcised , I had said , circumcision was a priviledge in that time of the Churches minority , and this the Apostle delivers , Gal. 3. & 4. Mr Blake takes it as if I had said , the fruition of the promises in such a latitude , were onely a priviledge during the time of the Churches minority , and would have me give some Scripture or colour of reason for it , which is to impose on me the proving of that I affirme not . I said , he that will prove the birth priviledge of our children from the Jewes , must make our case as theirs , and so bring us under the ceremoniall law . This Master Blake puts into a formall proposition of his owne , a man of straw and then denies it , the reason of my words is plaine , circumcision of Infants was from the paedagogy , , or peculiar Church-state of the Jewes , as may be proved from Gal. 3. 25. Gal. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. and obliged to the ceremoniall law , Gal. 5. 3. therefore , they that from hence would draw the birth priviledge of our children , must make our case the same with the Jewes , and so bring us under the ceremoniall law . The rest of that section is vaine , and not worth a line in answer . I said truely , that the interpetation of 1 Cor. 7 , 14. of legitimation is no more to be called a singular opinion then Master Blakes , and that I have proved by alleaging eleven Authors for it , and can do more . To the 8th chapter , what he sayes of Doctor Wilmot I assent to : he was a precious man , and my dear friend ; when Master Blake shall demonstrate to me what passages in my booke of scandals are inexcusable , I shall endeavour some way or other to retract them . Why I did not alter one or two passages , that Doctor Wilmot excepted against , I shall be willing to give Master Blake the reason . Master Blake is mistaken in that he saith , that my friend of the Assembly that delivered my letter to Master Marshal , was the man that told me of the Committee of the Assembly , and advised me to present the reasons of my doubts to them ; it was not he , but my reverend and deare Father in law . And that friend of mine of the Assembly , that delivered my letter to Mr Marshall , tels me that though he was desirous to have Master Blakes book printed , that the point might be disputed ; yet he did not approve many of his proofes : but by his speech with me lately , I conceive he did except at sundry of the same things which I did . But to the matter of that chapter . Letting passe the conference , and the occurrence therein , which was promised should not be divulged by any hearers , nor was there any exact record kept of it ; the dispute is now brought to writing , the question is whether I Pet. 2. 9 prove a birth priviledge of Christians , equall to the nation of the fewes . I deny it , and say the words there are meant of the Church as it is invisible . And to prove this . 1 I argue from the termes , chosen generatior , royall priest-hood , holy nation , peculiar people , or a purchased people , that is by Christs death , Tit. 2. 14. which cannot be affirmed of any other then elect and true beleevers , ergo . 2 From that which is said of them that were called by God , by his power or vertue into his marvailous light , and v. 10. that now had obtained mercy which they had not before , which cannot be affirmed of any but elect persons , and true beleevers ergo . 3 It is said , v. 7. that these persons did beleeve , contradistinguished to them that were disobedient and stumbled at the word , to which they were appointed , but such are onely the elect , ergo . 4 v. 5. They are said to be built as living stones on Christ , a spirituall house , a holy priesthood , to offer up spirituall Sacrifice acceptable to God by Jesus Christ , which can agree to none but elect persons , and true beleevers , ergo . But the terme nation comprehends Fathers and Children . Answ . The word nation , taken in these passages must be understood restrainedly of a spirituall people , as is plaine by considering that the Apostle Gal. 3. 8 sayes this is the Gospell , in thee shall all nations be blessed ; that is , beleevers of all nations : else the Apostles collection v. 9. were not right . And so the word Kinred is used Acts 3. 25. compared with Ephes . 3 15. the word houshold , Ephes . 2. 19. But they may be said to beleeve with a dogmaticall faith . Answ . Those that do so never come to Christ as living stones ; nor are built a spirituall house , which is proper to them that are made an habitation of God through the spirit , Ephes . 2. 22. But the calling of a people is spoken of the ten tribes revolted Hos . 1. 10. Hos . 2. 23. Deut. 32. 21. Answ . However it be in the places to which the allusion is , it is certaine that here is meant such a calling , as is from darkenesse to his marvailous light by his vertues or powers ; which therefor deserve to be shewed forth , and which they do shew forth that are thus called . And this is confirmed from Rom. 9. 24. 25. 26. which is manifestly said of them who were called v. 23. vessels of mercy ; nor is this a denomination a parte prast antigri , for it is expressely said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were the same whom he called vessels of mercy . And I still say that I wonder Master Blake would persist in maintaining so grosse an abuse of this Scripture ; in which I hardly beleeve any approved writer joynes with him . Master Blake had said no particular president for womens receiving the Lords Supper , more then for this of Infants . baptisme . I alleaged 1 Cor. 11. 28. where I said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comprehends both sexes , To this Master Blake sayes ch . 9. if arguments from the Grammer use be of force , then circumcision of femal● may be proved from John 7. 22. I reply , the subject matter of the command as well as the Grammer use of the word prove femals to be included . Master Coleman an Assembly man , and an able linguist in his malè dicis , pag. 32. hath these words . But that I confesse is something harsh , that he should aske me where there is the institution for women to receive the Sacrament : when as 1 Cor. 11. 28. is as cleare for women as men . Mr Martin Blake in his answer to Master Benjamin Coxe ch . 7. sect . 4. pag. 82. produceth many places where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is as much quisque any one , Matth. 16. 26. Joh. 3. 27. & 7. 46. Gal. 6. 1. &c. I alleaged for an expresse example of women receiving the Lords Supper , 1 Cor. 10. 17. & 1. Cor. 12. 13. and this I did in the Pulpit at Gabriel Fench-Church , as Mr Blake tels me ; and I had fit occasion sith 1 Cor. 10. 17. was my text then , and that text is expresse without consequence for womens receiving the Lords Supper , if [ we ] comprehend women as well as men , which Master Blake will not deny . And yet Mr Marshals allegation to prove women virtually to be circumcised in the males serves not for his purpose , I alleaged Acts 10. 7. Master Blake doubts whether it be meant of the Lords Supper , and if it b meant so he knoweth not how to avoid the Pepish argument for Communion in one kinde ; and that this yeelds a proofe onely by conseqvence . I answer , if women be comprehended under the terme Disciples , and breaking bread be meant of the Lords Supper , as to me it seems certaine ; because it was the end of their custo●● meeting on the first day of the weeke , and therefore could not be any other breaking bread ; then the example is expresse without consequence , for womens receiving the Lords Supper . It Mr Blake know not how to answer the Papists , I wish him to read Chamier panstrat . Cathol . tom . 4. de Ench. lib. 9. c. 2. § . 34. &c. Master Blake would bring Acts 2. 47. for example farre more formall and expresse then mine of Infant-baptisme , and he tels me of a syllogisme . The Lord added to the Church dayly such as should be saved , Infants are saved , therefore are to he baptized . A strange syllogisme , where in the major permi●● is not in the major proposition at all , consisting of four termes ; and so farre as I can gather in secunda figura ex omnibus affirmantibus : for the medium [ saved ] is the predicate in both premises , or else the major is particular , and so it consists ex meris particularibus . I go on to the 10th chapter . I said , that it is a new Gospell to affirme that this is one of the promises of the Covenant of grace , that God will be the God of beleevers and their seed . To this Mr Blake saith . A very high charge from that mouth which very lately , preached it as a Gospell truth ; and now being suddenly otherwise perswaded , can bring no other arguments then those that are harrowed from Antichristian ●●●aries , who are confessed sub verters of the Gospell . I answer , Master Blake cannot prove that I ever preached that Doctrine , I scarce thinke I did ever preach it : Forasmuch as I conceived , that Doctrine directly contradictory to the Apostle , Rom. ● 8. ever since in Oxford I examined Arminius his A●dysis of Rom. ● . Suddenly I was not perswaded as I shew in my Apology before . I knowe not what Antichristian sectaries he means who are confessed subverters of the Gospell from whom I borro●ed my arguments ; I neither had them from Anabaptists , ●o called , nor Papists : Master Blake gives way to his passion in this charge . My arguments I have from Scripture , from the most learned Protestants , as he may see part . 3. 54. And though it be an old Gospell , that God hath promised to be the God of Abraham and his seed , yet I still averre it to be a new Gospell , to say that God hath promised to be the God of beleevers and their seed . The Cove●●●t with Abraham and his seed I find 〈◊〉 17. 7. and the urging of this Covenant I deny not Exod. 32. 13. Deut. 9. 27. Levit , 26. 42. Exod. 3. 6. And though I say not that it contained onely the promise of 〈◊〉 , but grant it contained the promise of 〈◊〉 by Christ , 〈◊〉 1. 17. yet I like not Cha●iors saying , to call the promise of Can●● an app●●●● to the Coven●● , sith the Holy Ghost me thinkes speakes otherwise , Ps . 105. 8. 9. 10. 11. That 〈◊〉 cap. 39. speak not of 〈◊〉 his faederall holinesse hath been shewed before ; and 〈…〉 which Master Blake cites pag. 57. saying that 〈…〉 biunt & expectant baptismum , do me thinkes prove that Infants were not ordinarily baptized in his time . Nor do I thinke Master Blake can prove the Doctrine of Covenant-holinesse , out of Justin martyr , Epiphanius , Augustin , Isidor Pelusiota . I had said , that I guesse by some words of Master Marshall , Mr Blake and Master Rutherfurd , that to maintaine the baptizing of all sorts of persons in the Kingdome , as foundlings Infants of Papists , whores excommunicat persons ; which is the ordinary practise ; excepted against by Independents , that this assertion was upon the anvil : that when a nation shall receive the faith , that is a great or eminent part ; the governours and chiefe cities and representative bodyes shall receive the faith , that nation shall in like manner have all their litle ones capable of baptisme , and counted visible members of the Church , as the posterity of the Jewes were in the time of that Church administration . Mr Blake askes me , in which of these words I pray you , can you find one word of that businesse which you say is on the a●vill . I answer , to let Master Blakes words alone for the present , me thinkes Master Rutherfurds sound plainly as much ; For if notwithstanding the Father and Mother were as wicked as the Jewes , who slew the Lord of glory , who did obstinately deny Christ ; the children were holy by the holinesse of the chosen nation , which I conceive when the Ancestors are not included , must meane the body , or generality of the nation ; then the assertion I set downe as theirs must follow : but this I did deliver but as my guesse , yet so as that I thought necessary to oppose it ; and I say , it opposeth their owne grounds , who derive the title to Infant-baptisme from the Covenant , to a beleever and his seed ; but these are not the seed of beleevers , but the seed of them that deny and impugne the faith ; and from 1 Cor. 7. 14. of which Master Blake himselfe faith pag. 38. of his answer so my letter , The truth of the Apostles sequel depends on this proposition , All the children of the unbeleever are uncleane , ( that is out of the Covenant in his sense ) unl●esse for generation he or she be sanctifyed by a beleever . Which speech of Master Blake I conceive plainly overthrowes Master Blakes position in the birth priviledge , pag. 24. &c. and Master Rutherfurds in the words before named . For if all the children of an unbeleever are uncleane , unesse for generation he or she be sanctifyed by a beleever , it will not be enough to say the nation is holy , or the mediate ancestors were holy , sith the Apostles position is of the immediate parents , about whose living together the question was , and therefore saith , else were your children unclean . Mr Blakes answer here is a mistake of the force of my reason , which was not from the term [ beleever ] in 1 Cor. 7. 14. but from this that by their own expo●ition , they are unclean who are not borne of a beleever , therefore they cannot be holy either by holinesse of remote ancestours or the chosen nation , when the immediate pare●ts are as wicked as the Jewes who crucified Christ . I said the Independents had the advantage in this , and I am sure they have against Mr Blake and Mr Rutherfurd , and I guesse that the Assembly were sensible of it , when they appointed in the Directory the child to be presented by the Father , though I conceive that remedy will little or nothing rectify the abuse . Mr. Blake saith it were worth enquiry whom I mean by officiating Priests . I tel him , non-preaching Priests made by the Bishops . Mr Blake saith , your selfe were well aware , that every weapon that you left up against this Protestant doctrine was forged on the Jesuitas a●vill , and that in the whole conflict you were necessitated to borrow help from the Philisten Artists , when you were put upon it to say page 13. This is no undeniable Axiome , that , what all the Protestant Divines defend against the Papists , must be truth undeniable . To this I say , I am well aware that this is a loud calumny , the contrary whereof is manifest by the many and best Protestant Divines I quote all along my Examen , and very seldome make use of a Jesuite throughout my Treatise . Nor was I put upon that speech I used , because I borrowed help from Papists ; but because Mr Marshall spake of his virtuall consequence as undeniable , as if he had been Doctor irrefragabilis , and it is necessary when men goe about to bind men to the consent of Divines in some Churches , that we freely claime our liberty , and not become the servants of men . Mr Blake saith I doe not know one Protestant writer that hath declared himselfe in this thing , but hath declared himself to be your adversary . I answer , none of the Antipaedopaptists are my adversaries in this ; yet some of them are Protestant writers : in the point of expounding Gen. 17. 7. which is the chiefe hold for Covenant holinesse , Twisse , Bayne , Ames , Downame , and many others are for me , in the point of expounding ; 1 Cor. 7. 14. Camerarius , Melanchthon , Musculus , O siander , are for me . Mr Blake saith but a little before , pag. 58. Zuinglius in this hand went right , in which Luther his contemporary and opposite in this thing , is charged to be defective . But saith Mr Blake , I and you have entred into Covenant to the extirpation of Popery ; and I would learn of you by what character or marke it may be now discerned . I answer , not by this , that that is to be accounted Popery which all Protestant Divines oppose the Papists in ; for then many things would not be counted Popery which are , nor any thing to be counted Popery till we knew all Protestant Divines oppose it an endles , impossible busines . But there is a shorter way then that , and it is that is to be counted Popery which is commonly known by that name , as the doctrine of the Popes supremacy infallibility , the doctrine of the Masse , Transubstantiation , Bread-worship , Crosse-worship , Invocation of Saints , &c. Or if you will have a more fixed way , you may take that to be Popery which either the 39 Articles of the Church of England condemn in opposition to Papists , or is renounced in the Scottish negative Covenant , or Confession in the yeare 1581 as I remember , or what the present Parliament of England in their late Propositions to the King , Propos . 7. would have Papists abjure . Mr Blake saith , may we not require one other instance of a Popish truth standing up against an Orthodox errour , besides this incontroversie ? That from Gen. 17. 7. 1 Cor. 7. 14. or any other Scripture Covenant-holines of beleevers infants cannot be proved is as well a Protestant truth , as a Popish ; An Orthodox errour is , opposition in ●ppos●●● Be it that we cannot assign any one thing for truth in which Pretestants generally oppose Papists ; yet my speech is good , that that is no undeniable axiome , that what all the Protestant Divines defend against the Papists , must be truth undeniable . He that will not subscribe to this , must make the Protestant Divines doctrines against Papists , equall to the holy Scripture . In the 11th chapter Sect. 1. Mr. Blake subscribes to my interpretation , and conclusion , but doubts the premises on which I build it to be scarce sound , the reason he gives is , because I thus expound make Disciples out of all nations , whereas the verb is transitive , and the noune in the accusative ; and therefore it is boldnesse in me to change it , that in stood of nations I may understand as many or as few as I l●st of nations , whereas Mr Blake conceivet agreeable to prophecies , Psal . 2. 8. &c. that the whole of the nation is appointed to be discipled , and to be baptized , and so infants to be comprehended . I answer , my boldnesse was no other then Beza's , annot . on Mat. 28. 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , idest discipulos mihi facite ex omnibus gentibus . The new 〈◊〉 on the Bible annot . on Matth. 28. 19. ●each ] Gr. make Disciples of as John 4. 1. all nations ] not Jewes alone , but Gentiles also ; Acts 10. 34. 35. 47. nor do I any thing contrary to Grammar , as the 〈◊〉 in transitive , so it is used transitively by me , and it hath an accusative case after it , to wit the noune confessedly included in the verb that is made from it , and which I think none will deny to be the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used John 4. 1. and then all nations must either be put by apposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or with the Praeposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , I stand not upon it whether be taken but I conceive it more agreeable to the sense , and to the language to expresse it in the latter way , Bee then the whole of the nation , and so infants will not be included . I answer , it is true , nor can they be included . For the making Disciples all nations is by teaching them , or by preaching the Gospell to them ; as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is expressed , Markes 6. ●● . ( which no man I think will have the face to deny to bee the same with this ) not onely Master Marshall himselfe that expresseth it in his Sermon pag. 35. that they should teach the heathen and the Iewes and make them Discicles , and then baptize them ; but Mr Blake subscribes to this my intrepretation , by preaching the Gospell to all nations , make them Disciples . pag. 65. So that Mr Blake must needs exclude infants , except he can make them Disciples by teaching or preaching the Gospell to them . And for the prophecies he brings , I marvaile he is not ashamed to produce , Psal . 72. 11. Psal . 86. 9. to prove that that the whole of the nation even infants must be included , Mat. 28. 19. as if it were foretold that the whole of the nations even infants should come and worship before God. Pareus in his Commentary on Matth. 28. 19. saith truly , tertium mandatum est de baptizandis omnibus gentibus , hoc est sacramento baptismi initi●●dis & consecrandis omnibus is qui Christo nomen darent . In the second fiction of chapter 11. Master Blake saith , I had thought no man had equal ● Bellarmin in taking paines to find a knot in a Bull-rush . But I have shewed above that Mr Rutherfurd hath made a knot , needfull to be untyed . I say , there can no rule be assigned whereby to know when a nation is a beleeving , chosen , or discipled nation , giving right to baptize infants of that nation when not . Mr Blake askes , doe you mean rules so cleare and plaine that 〈◊〉 difficulty or case of conscience can occurre ; that needs enquiry in observation of it . I answer no , but such rules as are so cleare that a case of conscience may be resolved by them . M. Blake acouseth me as not rightly setting down his arg●●ent , because I set not down the conclusion right : I put the conclusion thus ; and therefore the infants to be baptized , whereas I should have added : and the nations being discipled , then infants as part of the nation are to be baptized : To shew the causlesnesse of this exception , Mr Blake pag. 20 of his birth-priviledge had said thus , The infants of any nation make up a part of the nation , and the nation , where they came was to bee discipled ; but set not down his conclusion , and therefore I conceiving he meant to infer thence that infants were comprized in those words , baptizing them , Matth. 28. 19. put down his conclusion thus , and therefore the infants : to be baptized . Mr Blake would have discipled put into the conclusion . But I conceive still discipled should not be put in the conclusion , and the premises were set down by himselfe , and therefore I did him no wrong . For his argument in form must be thus . They who are part of a discipled nation are to be baptized , infants are part of a discipled nation , therefore infants are to be baptized ; any man may see that discipled should not be put in the conclusion , sith it is in the medium , quod non ingreditur conclusionem . Now let his major Proposition stand , and I will subsume upon Mr Blakes ground ; Infidels of growne yeares are part of a discipled nation , for they are part of the nation ; and if the nation be discipled , they are part of the discipled nation : therefore by Mr Blakes reason , Infidels of growne yeares are to be baptized . Mr Blake at last pag. 67. sets downe his rule , in these words they are baptized by vertue of a priviledge from their parent , not from the nation : which is plainely to renounce Mr Rutherfurds assertion . I confesse if my first argument against the assertion I conceive Mr Rutherfurds may be answered , then the 2d . will be easily answered as M. Blake truly observes , p. 68. In answering my 3d. Mr Blake askes , How is it that wicked parents are now brought in this dispute ? I answer because it was the term Mr Rutherfurd used in his assertion : not to shew my allowance of the baptisme of infants of parents not wicked , nor out of agreement with Mr Thomas Goodwin in this . Mr Blake page 69. indeavours to prove by my tenet there can be no rule set down to know that any man is baptizable , because he conceives I hold onely true beleevers before God , members of the invisible Church , vessels of mercy , redeemed ones are the men discipled to be baptized ; but who are such , cannot be known . Ergo , by my opinion none are to be baptized . M. Blake indeavours to gather that to be my opinion out of my words , which are brought in obtorto cello , against their intent , nothing to his purpose . I say that Mr Marshals words in this sense are good , beleevers of every nation are the peculiar people meant ; 1 Pet. 2. 9. and this is meant of the invisible Church ; and that God hath not chosen simply the nation of the Gentiles , but a people out of them : Revel . 5. 7. but doe I thereby expound Matth. 28. 19. as if [ nations ] there comprehended only such elect persons and true beleevers ? or doe I any where say , that such only are Disciples and to be baptized ? Why then doth Mr Blake not onely here , but after in another chapter to wit the 14 of his book pag. 95 , 96. endeavour to fasten so absurdly that upon me , when he himselfe twice in this very book p. 24. 50. acknowledgeth , that he hath heard it from my own mouth , that baptisme is rightly administr●●●● every professour of Christ . I say pag. 158 of my Examen , th●●●●nfants being sanctified are beleevers , and discipled of Christ ; but I no where say , a sanctified person a beleever , and a Disciple to be the same , as Mr Blake untruly chargeth me , pag. 96. for I doe not make the termes reciprocall . Nor is that the advantage which I say the Independents have in this point , that the holinesse that is the ground for the administratour to baptize , must be reall either indeed or charitably beleeved ; but this is the advantage I conceive the Independents have , that whereas some will have children baptized though the parents be never so wicked : if they be a part of a beleeving nation , or their mediate Ancestours professed the faith , the Independents have advantage against them by their own plea ; from Gen. 17. 7. 1 Cor. 7. 14. as I shewed above . In like manner Master Blake chapter 14. page 93. because I said that Infants may by extraordinary power be made Disciples , as God made Iohn Baptist leap in his mothers womb , and Balaame asse speak , inferres against all reason and candor , thus . You hold this is done by the omnipotent power of God , as usually as actuall faith and profession of it is wrought in them ; as asses are made to speake with mans voice , and children in the womb leap for joy at the sensible prefence of one that speakes to their mother . These you joyn together , so that this is the comfort that you leave to parents when infants beleive , make profession of their faith , asses speak , and infants in the womb know a voyce and rejoyce upon hearing it , then their children may be sanctified and dying in infancy saved . But what spirit is Mr Blake possessed with that he so unbrotherlike perverts my words to make me odious ? I say that infants are sanctified by extraordinary power , not by ordinary means as hearing the word , doe I therefore make this unusual ? It may be done in every infant of a beleever for ought I say to the contrary . But you make it an extraordinary accident when you use this passage , both p. 134 , & 158. extraordinary accidents make not an ordinary rule . 'T is true I use the passage in both places , but do not in either make the extraordinary accident to be an infants sanctification , but in the one an infants profession of faith , as the very words shew , pag. 134. and in the other the extraordinary revelation , as is easie to be perceived by him that reads , pag. 158. of my examen . And thus have I answered with sect . 2. ch . 11. the fourteenth chapter ●●so of Mr Blakes book . Sect. 3. chap. 11. Mr. Blake ●hargeth me of imposing this supposition on him , that he should strongly conceit this , that Christ bid the Apostles baptize all nations after the manner that the Iewes did circumcise one nation , my meaning was that he conceived that as God appointed the Jewes to circumcise parents professing faith and their infants ; so he bid the Apostles baptize beleeving parents , and their infants : I did not intend to charge him with this conceit , as if he conceived that Christ bid the Apostles set up circumcision , as he seems pag. 73. to imagine , but that he conceived they were to baptize all nations . Fathers and Infants in like manner as the Jewes circumcised Fathers and their Infants . And this I conceive still must bee his meaning , not knowing what other Covenant , and Covenant-initiating Sacrament he could meane restrained to one nation , besides the Covenant , Gen. 17. and circumcision appointed to the Jewes . But Mr. Blake tels me this was my calumny to say he would have the commission , Mat. 28. 19. to be expounded by the precept of circumcision , Gen. 17. hee mea●t the precept or commission ; Matth. 10. 6. I answer , Mr Blake would have the word nations Matth. 28. 19. to comprehend infants , and his reason is , because the word nation was so taken , when the Covenant , and Covenant-initiating Sacrament was restrained to that our nation . Now I appeale to any one whether in the commission . Matth. 10. 6. yea or in the whole 〈…〉 word nation be taken as restrained to that one natio●● 〈…〉 commission was first limited , nor is there any menti●● 〈…〉 of Covenant or Covenant-initiating Sacrament in 〈◊〉 whole chapter , nor a word that shewes that the word nation in the Apostles commission comprehended infants . And therefore I could not divine more fairely then I did what Mr Blakes meaning should be in that obscure expression . But saith Mr Blake you are not at the paines to make it appea●● how the words of Christ were to the Apostles in elligible , if the word nation in this enlarged Commission , must bee taken in my other sense , and latitude then it was in their former limited commission when the Covenant and Covenant-initiating Sacrament was restrained to one nation . To this I answer , I took paines I think sufficient to shew how it must be understood in my Examen , § . 13. and therefore I shew how it was intelligible to the Apostles . Many interpreters have expounded the word , 〈◊〉 that I know of expounded it by Mat. 10. 6. The commission Mar. 16. 15. is the same with Mat. 28. 19. and so expo●●●● without running to Mat. 10. 6. The other supposition 〈…〉 ●●ceived Mr Marshals argument relied on is , that the nation 〈…〉 Jewes were discipled when circumcised . This Mr Blake saith , I put on him , but he disclaimes it . The truth is , I did not put it on Mr Blake , but Mr Marshall ; though the next words speak of Mr Blake : but not imputing to him the second , but the first supposition . As for Mr Mar. I do not find him disclaiming it . And for that inference that M. Blake makes from my words , as if I conceived low thoughts of Mr Blake and Mr Marshall , because I say the conceit that making Disciples , Mat. 28. 19. is to be done by baptizing them , is so absurd that I presume none that hath any wit will entertain it , now it is as absurd to say , that the Jewes were discipled when they were circumcised , and therefore I conceive Mr Blake and Mr Marshall have not any wit. But for this inference it is a farre fetched thing : I did not conceive the one so absurd as the other , nor doe yet , and therefore I might impute defect of wit to the entertainer of the one conceit , and yet not impute it to Mr Marshal and Mr Blake , for entertaining another conceit like it . Mr Blake excepts against me for saying these points had strong hold in his mind , that baptisme succeeds into the room , place , and use of circumcision ; and that the Covenant of the Gospell is all one with the Covenant made with Abraham : 〈…〉 used those words , that Baptisme so succeeds circum●● 〈◊〉 therefore how could I know it to bee in his mind I answ●● 〈◊〉 it by words equipollent which hee useth as Birth-priviledge , page 14. what is objected against one , concludes against both : circumcision and baptisme are therefore by the Apostle promiscuously taken ; there being the same principall and maine end of both . And this is evidence enough for what I said . The other Proposition he denies not to be in his mind . Sect. 4. ch . 11. Mr Blake makes a digression concerning arguments drawn from Analogy . And first whereas I had allowed for that which is naturall or morall in worship , an institution or command in the old Testament as obligatory to christians : upon this Mr Blake tels me , there is the same reason and like liberty in arguing by analogy in positive as in morall precepts . To this I reply , if the meaning bee that there is like reason of proving morall precepts from the old Testament as positive rites , it is most false and contrary to the 7th article of the Church of England , but if it be 〈◊〉 ●●tood of the manner of proofe by analogy or resembla●● then I deny that wee have any liberty at all to argue from analogy or resemblance , to prove or make a dutie or command in morals or ceremonials , though I grant we may use analogy to inforce a duty before proved . For an argument to prove a thing to bee a morall dutie from the old Testament , must bee by proving the same thing , then to have been morall as Master Cawdray and Master Palmer endeavour to prove one day in seven for a Sabbath to bee morall and perpetuall , but an argument from analogy is from one thing to another , as like , for analogy or proportion is betweene , not the same but more things as like . As for the Apostles arguing , 1 Cor. 9. 9. 1 Tim. 5. 18. the Apostle doth not by ●are analogy conclude ministers maintenance , but from the Lords ordinance , 1 Cor. 9. v. 14. which ordinance I take to be that Matth. 10. 10. which ordinanc the Apostle confirmes from common equity , which he proves b● diverse instances , from v. 7. to v. 14. so that the Apostle doth no prove a morall duty by analogy between two different things , bu● from a generall maxime that the labourer is worthy of his reward proved by sundy instances , inferres a particular truth concerning ministers . The argument 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. is to prove . that they which professe C●●t , may not partake of the things of Idols , from this generall truth that they which joyn in the seruice of any God they hold communion with that God , and are one with those that worship that God this the Apostle proves by instances in the Christian , and Jewish services . So that this argument is from a generall truth proved by an induction of instances . That Matth. 12. 3. 4. is onely an instance to prove that sacrifice must give place to mercy : a ceremoniall to a moralll duty ; not an argument from meer analogy or resemblance of things different . But what ever arguing there be in morals , certaine it is that no argument is good from bare analogy in ceremonials , or meer positives of the Jewes ; to prove , thus it was in such a rite of the Jewes , therefore it must be so in such a rite of the Christians , there 's no example of such arguing in the Scriptures , and therefore I said rightly Examen pag. 29. To me it is a dangerous principle upon which they goe that so argue , to wit , that in meer positive things ( such as circumcision and baptisme are ) we may frame an addition to Gods worship , from analogy , or resemblance conceived by us betweene two ordinances ; whereof one is quite taken away without any institution gathered by precept or Apostolicall example . Master Blake would knowe who they be that do so , I answer , Mr Marshall in his first argument , and five first conclusions , and virtuall command from circumcision ; Master Blake birth-priviledge pag. 15. and generally all that prove Infant-baptisme , by Infant-circumcision . For circumcision and baptisme , are meer positive things ; baptizing of Infants is confessed not to have expresse institution gathered by expresse precept , or example in the new Test : and that which is alleaged , is either expresse , or no precept , or example at all : and if it were to be gathered by consequence from institution , or example Apostolicall in the new Testament , without the helpe of the precept of circumcision there would be , for as much as it concernes my part , an end of the controversie : therefore it is clear , they that argue from circumcision to baptisme , doe frame an addition to Gods worship , from analogy or resemblance conceived by them , between two ordinances : whereof one is quite taken away , without any institution gathered by precept , or Apostolicall example . But saith Master Blake . It is not barely the analogy between circumcision and baptisme , by which we inforce the baptisme of Infants , but the grounds of both circumcision and baptism . This is said , but when the grounds are required , what are they but the analogy between baptisme and circumcision , that they are like ; what 's the reason of the one , is the reason of the other : and therefore what is done in the one , is to be done in the other ? Now whence is this arguing but barely from the likenesse , which makes an argument meerly from analogy . If the argument were drawn from some thing proper to baptisme it were another case , but being drawne from circumcision to baptisme , it is an argument meerly from analogy . If they rest not on this , let them lay aside this argument , and sticke to precept or Apostolicall example in the new Testament . To shew the danger of this way of arguing , I thus reasoned Examen pag , 29. For if we may do it in one thing , why not in another ? where shall we stay ? They that read the Popish expositors of their rituals do know , that this principle hath brought in surplice , purification of women , &c. that I mention not greater matters . I desire any Learned man to set me downe a rule from Gods word , how farre I may go in my conceived parity of reason , equity or analogy , where I must stay ; when it will be superstition and will-worship when not ; when my conscience may be satisfyed , when not . Master Blake in answer hereto , layes downe three rules . 1. When parity of reason or analogy , doth not institute any peece of worship , or the least part of the service of God but onely helpes to a right understanding of the nature , use , end , extent of that which is instituted . 2. When in our reasoning from analogy , from the right understanding of any inctitution , or ordinance , 〈◊〉 do not rest soly on the analogy that we find with other commands , but have our further reason for confirmation . 3. When the analogy holds full proportion in that for which it is brought , so that nothing can fairely be brought against the one , but may be also concluded against the other . To this I answer . 1 That never a one of these rules is brought out of Gods word . Not the first , for there is neither declaration of such a rule , nor example to prove that rule . The proving of excommunicating of women from Miriams shutting out of the camp , Numb . 12. 14. is not a Scripture collection , but a meer devise of men ; the argument against nonresidence from Ezek. 44. 8. is good after other arguments , but without other proofe is not convincing : and it is not in meer positive things but morall . The argument of the Apostle , 1 Cor. 9. 13. 14. is not from one positive rite to another , but from an ordinance of God agreeable to common equity in the old Testament , to illustrate an ordinance in the new Testament , about a morall duty of righteousnesse . The second and third rules are not set downe from any declaration or example in the Scripture . 2 I say these rules are very uncertaine , For no reason is given why they may not make a new worship , who may by their analogy extend it beyond the institution in the new Testament yea , it will be alleaged by Papists , and others , that when they appoint Surplice , Purification , Organs , &c. they do not make a new worship , but adde circumstances to the ordinances of Christ . Yea , The second rule overthrowes all , For if we may not soly rest on the analogy ; why at all ? This is enough to shew that analogy hath no strength , that indeed it doth onely illustrate cannot prove ; what is an argument by analogy , but an argument a similt ? If analogy could prove , we might rest soly on it , without any other confirmation . It is true , many desire more arguments , but in truth if it be an argument that proves , we may rely on it soly though there be no other . The third rule likewise is uncertaine and vaine . For how shall we knowe when the analogy holds full propo●tion ? when nothing can be fairely brought against the one , but may be also concluded on the other ? when is the proportion full , if onely when omnia sunt paria ; this can never happen in analogies between the rites of Moses and rites of Christ ? If when there is a parity in many things , it will be uncertaine how many parityes will serve turne to make the proportion full ; what force there is in an analogy when there are more disparities : And so for a rule to knowe when a thing is fairly brought , whether the rule be to be taken from Logicke , or the judgement of the Learned . So that these rules are very uncertain . 3 It is also uncertaine whether these rules be sufficient , whether there be no need of any more . For these rules will not exclude proofe of imparity of ministers , Infant commuuion , &c by analogy . Or if they do the same aberration from these rules that disproves the analogy for these ; will be incident to the analogy for Infant-baptisme . We may say Infant-communion , or imparity in the ministery is no more a new instituted worship , then Infant baptisme ; they that alleage analogy for imparity of the Clergy , and Infant-communion rest not soly on it : it seems to be brought as fairely with as full proportion in the one as the other . So that I conclude , not onely with Master Rutherfurd proportions are weake proportions , but also that in these positive rites , and institutions they are no probations at all , but meer illustrations , and consequently the argument for Infant-baptisme from the analogy of Infant-circumcision is a meer nullity . The rest of the section containes nothing but wrong inferences from my words ; I distinguish between Evangelicall promises and promises domesticall specially respecting Abrahams family , If this distinction may passe then Abrahams family had no Evangelicall promises saith Master Blake , you make saith he , an opposition between them . But what ridiculous arguing is this ? It 's all one as to say , If gifts of grace and nature are distinguished , then they that have gifts of grace , can have no gifts of nature . Those things that are not idem formaliter , or realiter , may be in eodem subjecto . I oppose them , he saith , but how ? not as contraries , but as disparata , which is rather a distinction then an opposition . Because I say , circumcision signified that Moses Law was to be observed , Gal. 5. 3. Master Blake excepts . You are ( it seems ) of Mr Blackwoods opinion , that saith , circumcision did not bring any grace to the Jewes , but was rather a yoke or a curse . Master Blackwood hath or may answer for himself . Mr. Blakes inference from my words is a meer cavil . And that which he addes , that I make frequent use of Bellarmines sophistry is a meer slaunder . That circumcision signified the promise of the Land of Canaan , I had it not from Bellarmine , but if from any , rather from Cameron cited by me exercit : pag. 4. or rather from Gen. 17. 8. Psal . 105. 11. This is enough in answer to that section . Sect. 5. ch . 11. Master Blake accuseth me as not setting down his argument rightly , but the truth is , I set not downe the argument as it is in Master Blake , but as it was in Master Marshall , whose very words I alleadge , and that rightly . But Master Blake thinkes he formed it to better advantage ; From Matth. 10. 42. Mar. 9. 41. compared , I onely gather to that belong to Christ , and to beare the name of Christ , and to be a Disciple of Christ is one and the same thing . But by his leave , if he should meet with a punctuall respondent , he would and might deny his proofe . For all that he can prove from thence is , that the same persons that belong to Christ , are disciples of Christ ; but it is not true alwayes , quae eidem subjecto conveniunt sunt eadem formaliter . He that should say , he that receives my servant receives me ; he that receives one that belongs to me receives me ; though he speak both these of the same person , yet a servant , and one that belongs to him are not all one and the same thing : For there are other that belong to him , as wife , children , friends , besides servants . And indeed to belong to Christ , and to be a Disciple of Christ , are not one and the same thing . To be a Disciple of Christ in all the places in the four Evangelists and Acts of the Apostles , signifyes no other then one that professed Christ to be his master , and followed his Doctrine , as the Disciples of John , the Pharisees , and others did follow their Doctrine ; but many belong to Christ , yet uncalled , all that his Father hath given unto him , the Angels that are his Ministers belong to him , and yet cannot in the Scripture acception be termed Christs Disciples . But I assume saith Master Blake , that Infants are of the number of those who as Disciples in Christs account do belong to him . Matth. ●● . 5. I said the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notes not alwayes an Infant , for I●●rus daughter , though twelve yeare old is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Marke 5. 41. 42. and yet that age might be a patterne of humility ▪ seldome are children of that age ambitious as the Disciples , though they be oft impatient . I said further that Matth. 18. 5. is not meant of a little child in age , and that 〈◊〉 proved from v. 3. ● . 6. But saith Master Blake , he is indeed a child in understanding that doth not see that your ●●●ference to v. 3. 4. is wholly against you for little child v. 3. 4. is taken for such a one as in age is a little child , else the speech would be ●●ept . But Mr Blake should have ●●●●ded my words better , I did not parallel the word [ little child ] v. 5. with [ little child ] v. 3 4 but the phrase [ one such little child ] with the phrases , v. 3. one that is converted , and made as a little child . v. 4. one that humbles himselfe as a little child v. 6. one of those little ones that beleeve in him . But saith Master Blake , Luke 9. 48. it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is true , it is so . Neverthelesse Beza notes thus , sed & pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hunc puerulum , fortassis legendum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hujusmodi puerulum : & Grotius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ut apud Matthaeum , quomodo & hic Syrus interpretatur . Tale est : amor omnibus idem . That in Matth. 18. 5. a little child must be meant of a little child in affection , seems plaine to me by the terme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such a one , that it is not limited to that little child , the term 1. shews which is as much as quempiam any one . And me thinkes the meaning of the words should be thus , whosoever should receive such a one as is as meane and low as a little child receiveth me , as that which followes makes me conceive . For he that is lesse among you , that is , though he were as meane as a little child , shall be great . But were it granted that it were meant of a little child in age , how doth it follow that such a one is there a Disciple ? This , if any must be the proofe : He that is received in christs name , is a Disciple . A little child may be received in Christs name ergo a little child is a disciple ▪ But of this argument , I deny the major ; a person might be received in Christs name , who was not a Disciple , as those that did miracles in Christs name ▪ and yet followed not Christ , Luke 9. 49. But if it were so that it could be proved , that the terme Disciple is any where given to an Infant , ( which neither Master Blake from Matth. 18. 5. nor Master Marshall from Acts 15. 10. can ever do ) yet it is certaine that a Disciple Matth. 28. 19. is such a one as is made by preaching the Gospell , as is manifest from Mar. 16. 15. John 4. ● . And I wonder that those very men that do in effect sometime confesse this is not meant of Infants , when they answer the Antipaedobaptists objection from Matth. 28. 19. as Mr Marshall pag. 44 of his Sermon , It is said indeed , that they taught and baptized , and no expresse ●●ntion of any other , that yet they should by such strained and forced inferences go about to draw a command from Matth. 28. 19. for baptizing Infants , as if they might be called there Disciples , contrary to the constant use of the word throughout the new Testament , and their own confessionels where . Sect. 6 ch . 11. Master Blake blames me for putting his reason from Isai 49. 22 as an argument by it selfe in my exercitation . But he might know my exercitation set downe most of the arguments as they were urged in the conference with me , And so was the reason from Isai 49. 22. urged in that conference as an argument by it selfe , to my best remembrance , however it were after disposed in the birth-priviledge . But saith Master Blake , the question here is not ( as after your manner you mistake it ) whether this text proves Infant-baptisme , but whether it gives any intimation , that Infants in the dayes of the Gospell be any members of the Church-visible , or intitled to any priviledges of the Covenant , as Christs Disciples . I reply , The proving of that intimation tended to prove Infant-baptisme , and therefore those words were alleaged for Infant-baptisme ; which was that I said , not a whit mistaking the question . Now sith Master Blake confesseth that the words must needs be allegoricall , why doth he expound the terme sons and daughters of infants , and tell us that their carriage of their little ones must be understood no otherwise then of the accesse of the Gentiles with their Infants to the Church of Christ . For if the Carriage , and noursing v. 23. be allegoricall meant of perswasions , exhortations , and such like acts , Infants could not be thus carried And so Mr Blakes allegationis but an empty sound . Ch. 12. Master Blake goes about to justifie his speech that he used in his birth-priviledge , pag. 22. that the precedant is an household . He that followeth the precedent , must baptize housholds . This speech I said , I marvaile much at it , and that it is very absurd , that I say no worse of it . Master Blake tels me . I expresse not the reason of so much marvaile . I answer the terme wherefore , with the words following expresse this reason plainely , sith as I said before in housholds were Infidels , if an houshold be the precedent to be followed ; and he that followeth the precedent must baptize housholds without any other qualification ; then when he baptizeth the beleeving master , he must baptize the unbeleeving servant , wife , &c. for they are of the houshold . Master Blake . If you had any worse to say , I wonder that you had not spoke it , your best friends I beleeve will say that you have sufficiently shewed your selfe absurd in language . Sure Master Blake knowes that a speech may be worse censured then by terming it very absurd , I might have called it sophisticall , deceitfull , and that had beene worse . My best friends can finde no abusive language of any mans person , their speeches or arguments I censure in no more absurd language then usually schollers do , and particularly Master Gataker doth Doctor Ames , and Voetius as I have shewed in this Apology above § . 5. Master Blake addes , I onely say some more learned then I , as learned as you have denied my words to be either absurd or heterodox . Be it so ; yet affection may blinde their eyes . But let us examine the speech . I reasoned thus , if the precedent to be followed be a houshold , then those of the houshold are to be baptized either because of the houshold ; if this be said , then the Infidell wife is to be baptized because of the houshold , or because they professe the faith ; and then the precedent is not a houshold , but a professor of faith . To this Master Blake , For full answer I say , that wife and servant , as wife and servant , are in a capacity for baptisme : if any wife and servant were in those housholds they were baptized ; else the Scripture would not have said the whole family was baptized . It is sufficient that Scripture mentioning baptisme of whole housholds , excepts none from a capacity of baptisme . I reply , in that which he cals a full answer , there is no answer at all to my reason ; for he neither denyes my distinction to be sufficient , nor doth he tell us which member he will choose in the Dilemma , nor how he will avoid the consequent upon his choice . And therefore his learned friends , though they were ten times learneder then my selfe , yet in this are mistaken in acquitting either the former speech , of this answer , from absurdity . But let us consider what he sayes . It is sufficient , that Scripture mentioning baptisme of whole housholds , excepts none from a capacity of baptisme . I reply : Is this sufficient to make the baptizing of housholds the precedent , that is the pattern by which we may now baptize Infants , because Infants are not excepted ? Then neither are Infidels excepted there ; nor naturall fooles or idiots of ripe yeares , and so are to be the precedent of baptizing . But wife and servant as wife and servant , are in a capacity for baptisme . Answer . It is not true , that wife and servant as wife and servant are in a capacity for baptisme , if [ ●s ] betaken with reduplication , and [ capacity ] of actuall right , but as they are professors of faith . But if it be understood that , 〈◊〉 wife , that is though wife , and capacity in respect of future possibility , then it is true of an Infidell , of any man shall we therefore make an Infidell , or a man simply the precedent of baptizing ? I said there 's no reason why it should not be laid as well , that baptizing Samaria , Acts 8. 12. the 3000. Acts 2. 42. all Judea Matth. 3. 5 ; should be the precedent as baptizing of housholds , Acts 16. True saith Master Blake , if Semaria be converted , all Judaea is taken for some considerable numbers out of every part of Judaea . So say I , the terme houshold is taken Acts 16. for those of the house that being of growne yeares professed the faith . And so there 's no precedent there for baptizing an Infant . Chapt. 13. Mr Blake passing over all that I say to Mr Marshals second argument , till pag. 145. concerning it tels me , that I might have given Mr Marshal leave to explain his own argument . And And I tell Mr Blake that so I did , and then did my part to shew what was faulty in it , so effectually that I conceive in his Defence he hath quitted it , and put another in its room , as weak as it ; as I shewed above . But Mr Blake thinkes it is sufficient to make the argument good , that infants of beleevers have an accesse in Gods ordinary way of dispensation , whilst infants : Here is a new phraseology , which serves for nothing but to puzzle ; there is no face of an argument in it , and therefore I let it passe . To shew , how uncertaine the argument is from from Matth. 19. 14. for infant-baptisme I produced Pis●a●ors reasons to prove that it is not cleare they were infants that were brought to Christ . These reasons I did not stick to , and so need not own what is contradictory to my exposition of Matth. 18. 5. before . The second exception I took to the argument from Matth. 19. 14. I delivered onely doubtfully , and yet I conceived Mr Marshals reason not cogent , for somewhat that Christ meant to reach by that Embleme of a little child could not be well resembled by a sheep , for though meeknesse might , yet not d●ciblenesse : I might have added that the similitude or Embleme of a sheep , had not so much decorum in it . But I stick not to that exposition of not including those infants , as conceiving not from Mr Marshals or Mr Blakes reason , but from the circumstances of the thing , that Christ intended some extraordinary blessing to them , and declaration concerning them . As for Mr Blakes glosse he puts upon me , I disclaimed it ; It is his owne mistake , not my conceit : that those infants , or infants of beleevers in infancy have no interest in Christ , but are without Covenant of promise , without God , without hope . But for that I said ; thirdly , that there is no certainty , onely conjecture that they were infants of beleevers , I avow it . Mr Blake averres a certainty beyond conjecture , because Christ was minister of the circumcision , Rom. 15. 8. sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel , Mat. 15. 24. carried himselfe otherwise to the Canaanitish woman in behalfe of her daughter , verse 22. 23. If these had had no other interest , Christ would have been as facile to others as to them . I reply , Christ was minister of the ci●●●mcision , was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel , yet cured the servant of the Centurion , the Samaritan leper , the daughter of the Syrophenician . He carried himselfe strangely at first to that woman , to provoke her faith , and he pleaded against her not that shee was not a beleever , but that shee was a Canaanite ; if this reason prove any thing it is , that the childrens parents were Jewes , but that proves not they were beleevers ; few of them beleeving on Christ , Iohn 1. 11. Against the fourth thing I say of those children that were brought to Christ , that the speech [ of such is the kingdome of heaven ] is meant of the kingdome of glory , and that this is not common to all infants of beleevers ; Mr Blake excepts that it is meant of the visible Church , and and of all infants of beleevers as such : now on this hinge turns the fifth exception also , and so the answer to the whole argument I determine the Kingdome of heaven to be meant of the Kingdome of glory , and I thus prove it . 1 The Kingdome of God must be understood Marke 10. 14 , as it is verse 15. and Lu. 18. 16. as verse 17 and Matth. 19. 14. as it is in both those , this I prove , because our Saviour from their estate inferres a likenesse to them in others for the same estate ; but Marke 10. 15 , Luke 18. 17. can be understood of no other then the Kingdome of glory , the proposition being false , being understood of the visible Church ; many proud men entering therein ▪ as Simon Magus , Diotrephes , &c. ergo it must be understood of the Kingdome of glory . 2 From this that our Saviour directs the speech Marke 10. 15. Luke 18. 17. to his Disciples who were already in the visible Church , therefore the requiring a further condition to the Kingdome of God shewes he meant it of the Kingdome of glory . 3 The speech Marke 10. 15. Luke 18. 17. is like Mat. 18. 3 , 4. but there it is meant of the Kingdome of glory , ergo so here . Deodate on Matth. 19 14. so farre are you deceived in thinking that children , by reason of their weakenesse and contemptible qualitie ; are unworthy to be presented unto me : that contrariwise no body is capable of my Kingdom unles he be first by the spirit of regeneration brought into a spirituall estate to be like a little child in the order of nature . The new annot : on the Bible on Matth. 19. 14. yee have no reason to blame them for bringing children to me ; for they may be such as have interest to the Kingdome of heaven , as well as others of ripe yeares : and , unlesse yee be like them , ye shall never come there , ch . 18. 3. But saith Master Blake , Christ had never been so much displeased with his Disciples for forbidding them , seeing their election and justification was to the Disciples wholly unknown , they had a present visible title , such as the Apostles ought to have knowne . I answer , The reason of Christs anger was their hindering him in his designe , not the knowledge they had of their present visible title : this is but a dreame . I added further , that Christs action in this was extraordinary , and so no ordinary rule for baptizing by the Publike ministery . Mr Blake would have me consider how this can stand with that I said before , that they that brought the Infants might do it without faith in Christ , as the Messiah upon the fame of his miracles , and account that he was a Prophet . I answer , there is no opposition , they might conceive him to be but a Prophet , not the Messiah : and yet Christ might act as an extraordinary Prophet , and as the Messiah , Mr Blake sayes , this act of Christ is no direct preced●● for baptisme , but for Church-priviledges of which Infants are capable . Marke this speech , if [ but ] be adversative , then Master Blake grants that Infants are capable of Church-priviledges , not of baptisme , which overthrowes all his dispute ; but the truth is , this thing was done to these Infants , not by reason of any 〈◊〉 title they had , or to enter them into any outward Church-priviledge , but to accomplish by his blessing , their interest in the invisible Kingdome of God by election . Master Blake in the close of this chapter sayes , if it were true , that padobaptisme had no more warrant then I conceive , yet 〈◊〉 not will-worship , but a misapplication of an instituted ordinance to a person . But I aske Master Blake , whether Infant-Communion were not will worship ? whether baptizing of bells were not will-worship ? and yet these are but misapplications of an instituted ordinance to a wrong subject . We have the word will-worship but once , Col. 2. 23. and if it be taken in the worser sense , as Protestant Divines hitherto have done ( though lately Doctor Hammond at Oxford hath written a booke to prove it to be taken in the better part for a commendable thing as a free-well offering ) and have made it the sinne of the Pharises Matth. 15. 9. and especially non-conformists , who have made every invented ceremony will-worship , then much more Infant-baptisme being worship it selfe , if it be not instituted , must be will worship . Chapt. 15. Master Blake examines what I say , Examen pag. 164. about Gods sealing . Master Marshall spake of Gods sealing the baptized ; I said , God seales not to every one that is baptized , but onely to true beleevers : For his sealing , is the confirming of his promise ; but God promiseth righteousnesse to none but true beleevers . Master Blake answers . You acknowledge baptisme to be is its nature a seale of the righteousnesse of faith , and to be of God , therefore in it God must seale to every baptized person , or else you must say they are not baptized . I reply : I acknowledge baptisme of professours of faith to be of God , though they be not true beleevers : and I acknowledge baptisme in its nature to be a seale of the covenant of God , but not a seale actuall , but aptitudinall ; that is , all right baptism is in its nature apt to seale , as a garland hung out is to signify wine to be ●old , yet actually the one signifies so onely to the intelligent , and the other onely to true beleevers . And God never seales actually till a person be a beleever . I said ; As for the sealing by God upon condition persons ag●ize the Covenant , it is but a notion ; the Scripture makes not Gods promise in the Covenant of grace conditionall in that sense . For Gods promise is for those he enters into Covenant with , that he will put his lawes in their 〈◊〉 and in their mindes will 〈◊〉 them , Heb. 10. 16. Master Blake answers . If you 〈◊〉 this of the Sacraments as the words beare , then according to your opinion none ought to be baptized , but 〈◊〉 in whose heart the law in wrote . I answer him , By Gods sealing I doe not meane every right administration of baptisme ; for though that be in its nature apt to seale the graces of the Covenant , yet actually Gods seales not but when it is administred to a beleever . It may be called a right act of the administratour according to Gods appointment , but not Gods sealing . I call Gods sealing onely when either by his spirit or oath , or outward rite , he assures his grace , as by circumcision to Abraham , Rom. 4. 11. he appointed Ismael to be circumcised , but did not seale to him righteousnesse by faith . The inference Mr Blake makes from my words , as if I held none baptizable , but those in whose heart Gods law is written , hath no colour , for I do not make the administratours baptizing , or , sith they will have it so called , sealing , , to be Gods sealing . God appoints the word to be preached to many hypocrites , and the preacher that assures them of the promises doth it by Gods appointment , yet God doth not assure the promises to them . I do not make him onely baptizable to whom God seales , but him whom Christ appoints to be baptized , whether God seales to him or no. Master Blake urgeth me with Bellarmines argument ; of the Sacraments be seales of grace , they are often false , and God should beare witnesse to a lye , and tels of the speech of some that have said , that this argument is unanswerable ; unlesse we confesse that the seale of the Sacrament is conditionall . I like not to call the Sacrament a conditionall seale , for that which seales doth assure , and supposeth the condition : In my apprehension , that which is called conditionall sealing is not sealing but offering , or propounding , or representing : but about this I will not contend . Yet in that sense I yeeld it to be a seale actually , I yeeld it to be a seale onely to beleevers , but I deny that because the Sacrament is in its nature a seale of grace , God doth seale alwayes when it is rightly administred . The nature of it is to be a seale aptitudinall , not actuall ; and so it is easie to answer Bellarmines argument , without crossing my speeches . But be the Sacraments s●ales conditionall or absolute , actuall or aptitudinall , what is this to prove that God seales conditionally in this sense , as if God left it to mans liberty , to whom he had sealed , to agnize or recognize that sealing , or to free themselves , if they please , and so nullify all ; yet so as to afford them a while the favour , and priviledge of being in Covenant with him , which Master Marshall I conceived meant by his conditionall sealing , and I find not in his answer a deniall of it to be his meaning . Master Blake excepts against a speech of mine , in which I say , That all the Sacraments of the Jewes are abrogated circumstance , and substance in whole and in part : and askes me . Is circumcision of heart abrogated ? Is all spirituall meat and drinke in Sacraments abrogated ? Is Christ himselfe abrogated ? I answer , no : but withall say , these are idle questions as not crossing my speech , unlesse he can prove circumcision of the heart , spirituall meat and drinke , and Christ himselfe to be Sacraments . Sect. 2. Master Blake would acquit this speech , Gods Covenant of grace is common to elect and reprobates from symbolizing with Arminians , by producing the speeches of Pareus , and Mr Ball who onely say reprobates are in Covenant with God externally , or God externally contracts with them , which is another thing . Gods Covenant of grace , is his promise of grace ; and of this truly , Master Marshall in his defence page 117. multitudes were baptized , to whom God yet never gave saving graces , and therefore never promised them ; for had he made a promise , he would have performed it . Master Blake makes the nature of a Covenant an agreement betweene two parties , and sayes , a promise or tender without consent , is no Covenant . How then do children Covenant at baptisme , or enter into Covenant who yeeld no consent ? He saith , Gods tender of himselfe to his people is called his Covenant . Gen. 17. 7. 9. But he doth not rightly call that a tender , which was more then a tender to wit a promise . Then he objects against himselfe , that if Gods Covenant be such as he will not breake , Jerem. 31. 32. and he hath promised to put his lawes in their inward parts , then they all to whom he makes Covenant must be elect . I answer saith he , if we take the words exactly , as in the letter of the prophecy they run . then all ministery is beaten downe , and all edification ceases . But this is litem lite resolvere . The Contraremon strantes when they urge this place for effectuall grace , understand the words exactly . But how will Master Blake understand them ? I have looked over almost two leaves in answer to this in Master Blake , and cannot tell how he will understand them ; nor finde I that he gives any direct answer to the objection , but wanders in impertinences . Nor knowe I how he can answer the objection without evervating the argument for effectuall grace and perseverance in it . And the not teaching one another there spoken of is meant of that obscure teaching which was under the Law. Sect. 3. He intimates that I have misreported Master Marshall , but Master Marshall hath not himselfe denyed the sense I conceived of his conditionall sealing by God to Infants , the words are plaine enough in his Sermon , pag. 49. where he talkes of Gods Covenant , and sealing , and Christs suretiship , more like Corvinus , or the Arminans , then the Scripture or Contraremonstrants . Master Blake accuseth me of joyning with Independents , and that they will have none Church members , but elect , and I no Church but that which is invisible . But I beleeve he wrongs both me and them ; me I am sure , for I alwayes teach a visible profession sufficient for Chuch-membership , though I deny that every visible professour is in the Covenant of grace ; and when they will have reall saints Church members , they meane not onely such as are so before God , but such as are so in the judgement of the Church Though I thinke they are more rigid then they should be in their tenet , yet I thinke Master Blake wrongs them in this imputation . Ch. 16. I told Mr Marshall that his speech of Anabaptists as condemning infants as out of the state of grace , condemning all the infants of the whole Church of Christ as having nothing to doe with the Covenant of Grace , till proved by some of their testimonies I should take to be but a false accusation . Mr Blake tel●me Master Marshall for a testimony needs look no further then th●●op of your leafe , where you say infant-baptisme is a corruption of the ordinance of baptisme ; If infants be not only held from baptisme , but their baptisme is also a corruption of that ordinance , and there is no such thing as Covenant-holinesse to give them any ti●le or interest , then they are out of covenant , strangers to the promises of God , and so the doom Eph. 2. 12. lyes heavy upon them . How frivolous a justification is this of an expresse and deep accusation of men of a rash and bloody sentence as condemning all the infants of the whole Church of Christ , as having nothing to do with the covenant of grace ; me thinks a man that would accuse so expressely so many persons , and those christian brethren not to be contemned of so deep , so passion-provoking a charge enough to stirre up Magistrates and parents to expell and destroy such men , should produce better evidence for such a crimination , then such a farre fetcht consequence as Mr Blake here brings , to make it good is neither my name nor peace more tenderly regarded by Master Blake then upon such light inference to accuse me so deeply ? I had said to Mr Marshall that if the covenant of grace bee rightly understood , Mr Marshall excludes infants as much from the covenant of grace as I doe . As for Mr Blake not only page 14 of his Birth-priviledge , but also page 23 of his answer to my letter , he expressely maintaines that the birth-right he maintaines as a fruit from the covenant of free-grace to all in the faith , and their seed only entitles to outward priviledges . How doth this stand with that which he asserts chap. 3. sect . 2. of his answer to my letter , page 13. that infants of beleevers have salvation if they dye in their infancy , by vertue of the Covenant ? For if the Covenant onely entitle to outward priviledges how doth it entitle to salvation ? So that to speak plainly , Mr Blake doth but play fast and loose , sometimes asserting a certainty of salvation from the covenant , sometimes onely a right to outward priviledges ; and yet he and Mr Marshall stick not to declaim against Anabaptists , for not assuring salvation to the deceasing infants of beleevers from that covenant which Mr Marshall will not assert , pag. 116. as it is a Covenant of saving grace to be made to beleevers and their naturall seed , and Mr Blake saith , onely entitles to outward priviledges . But we say , saith Master Blake that all infants and men of yeers for ought that we can find from any Scripture grounds are utterly lost that want all right of Baptisme . He might say they are in danger to be lost by reason of originall corruption , not for want of right to Baptisme ; but to say they are utterly lost is more then Mr Blake hath ground to affirme . I have often shewed that a right to baptism is from the command of Christ , not from such covenant holinesse as Mr Blake asserts : salvation comes from Gods election and Christs redemption . It is a meer slander , and a groundlesse crimination , wherewith Mr Blake chargeth me , that the position he produceth out of my book , or any other he can produce doth inferre , that all the infants of the whole Church of Christ have nothing to doe with the Covenant of grace . I challenge him , with Mr Marshall and Mr Blakes seconds Mr Calamy and Mr Vines , if they can to make that charge good ; or else let Mr Blake and Mr Marshall retract it . As for Mr Blakes conclusion , I conceive his Prot●station makes him deservedly the object of pitty , his motions carry a sting in the tayl , to wit a false accusation , from which I doubt not but I have acquitted my selfe by this writing . The elogy the worthy member of the house of Commons bestowes on me , and the unrighteous censure of my learned namelesse acquaintance I value not ; books as meats relish differently with different palates , pro captu lectoris habent sua fata libelli : This apollogy will state me , and my writing better in their thoughts ▪ if they can & will understand the truth . If not , the same spirit that hath enabled me to beare greater burthens , I trust will enable me to bear these hard censures . I hope that I shall not be wanting to the overthrow of any errors , according to my ability ; paedobaptisme I am more assured then ever is a great corruption , founded as now it is taught on very great errours , and of any service I suppose I can doe to God it is one of the chiefe which I ought to apply my selfe to , that it may be cleared to be an errour . I bear as much love and reverence to M. Blake as ever , he is not despised by me though his errours be freely censured . I aimed not either in the former or in this latter writing at any grievance to him , and should be sorry this controversie should make a separation between us ▪ though I find by experience much estrangednes in many of my former acquaintance from me . And for encountring with Mr Blake for the truths sake I held my selfe necessitated to it by reason of Mr Vines and M. Calamy their former , and latter , as I still conceive , inconsiderate plaudite . FINIS . Errata . PAge 2. line 24. above , read about . p. 30. l. 10. sticks , r. strikes . p. 33. l. 1. And , r. But. p. 40. l. 22. Gen. 7. r. Gen. 17. p. 50. l. 4. Berma●aus , r. Be●mannus . l. 5. 20. r. 2. p. 51. l. 3. meerly , r. merry . l. 36. Iannes , 1. Iames. l. 13. r. upon what . p. 53. l. 20. r. that they who . l. 21. to , r. doe . p. 57. l. 13. Marshall , r. Ball. p. 59. l. 24. 57. r. 75. p. 67. l. 27. artificer , r. artifice . mind , r. mend . p. 70. l 12 r. will be . l. 15. r. are the. p. 72. l. 29. r. examen . p. 42. 64. 65. p. 75. l. 16 dele And M. Blake . &c. p. 77. l. 14. which , r. this . p. 80. l. 20. r. inconsideretenes which . p. 84. l. 33. dele it . p. 85. l. 1. r. either out . p. 97. l. 25. 256. r. 170. l. 37. 128. l. 182. p. 98. l. 30. r. ho●se in . p. 1 co . l. 12 them , 1. Infants . p. 101. l. 15. see , r. set . l. 31. dele first . p. 102. l. 36. cuts , r. cut . p. 118. l. 20. r. the thing . p. 129. l 5. r. that they . p. 140. l. 25. r. positive rites as morall precepts . p. 142. l. ● . dele it . p. 145. l. 1. margine . 16. r. 18. p. 148. l. 32. p. 149. l. 2. precedent , r. subject . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A94733-e2580 §. 1. Of the occasion of writing this Apology . §. 2. Of the intention of the Author upon that occasion . §. 3. Of the necessity and seasonablenes of publishing the two Treatises about Infant-Baptisme . §. 4. Of freedome from publishing the two Treatises contra●y to engagement , with a Declaration of the Authors proceedings therein . §. 5. O● the clearing the Author of the two Treatises from scornfulnesse in writing them : of my censure of M. Thomas Goodwins handling this point , and of all writers about Col●s . 2 ▪ 12. Of the exposition I give of Colos 2 ▪ 12. Confessed to be right by Mr Marshall himselfe . §. 6. Of the clearing the Author of the Examen from either justifying the Anabaptists in 〈◊〉 , or condemning the godly , and grave Nonconformists in England . §. 7. Of t●e clearing of the Author of the two Treatises from va●nting and challenging in the composing and publishing the Treatises . §. 8. Of the clearing the Author o● the two Treatises from Sophistry in them , whereby occasion is taken to vindicate the Treatises in many of the chie●e things contained in them . §. 9. Of the meaning of Master Marshals second conclasion , the words in the D●rect●ry . [ the promise is made to Beleevers and their seed ] and the Doctrine therein delivered , disavowed by Mr Marshall and Mr. Geree . §. 0. Of the distinction of inward and outward Covenant , and that it can stand Master Marshall in no stead , but to shew his tr●f●ing , and equivocating in his first argument , and two first conclusions , and of M. Marshal● mistake of my opinion . 11. Of Master Marshal● false and most unjust charge that I carry the Socinian plot through my examen and exercitation . §. 12. Of M. Marshals unjust charge of me as itching after new opinions , and particularly about rebaptization and receiving the Lords Supper afore Baptism . §. 13. Of alleadging Authors against their mind , particular Mr Daniel Rogers , M. B●ll , Chamter , Aretius , and Beza . 1 Cor. 7. 14. §. 14. Of Master Marshal's unjust charging Anabaptists , with a bloody sentence , concondemning all the Infants of beleevers as having nothing to doe with the Covevenant of Grace ; his imputing to me as if I held that they all belong actually to the kingdome of the Devill , no more promise for them then for children of Turks , their actuall standing in the visible kingdome of the Devill . A large disq●●isition of Rom. 11. 17. &c. wherein is shewed that the ingraffing there is into the invisible Church by election and giving faith , and that it p●ove● not Intant-baptisme . §. 15. of M. Marshals unjust charge against me as ●arkning his arguments , and casting fi●th in the face of the Assembly . § 16. Of Mr Marshals untrue charge against me , as if I rested on Grotius in setting down the tenent of Antiquity upon occasion of which the tenent of Antiquity is again examined , my judgment of their doctrine vindicated , Mr. Marshals new all●gations answered , and my diligence to find out their tenets manifested . § 17. Of my opinion about excommunication , Church-government , the admission unto all ordinances , my former conformity , alleaged to alienate mens minds from me and my writings . § 18. Of the vanity of Mr Ley's vaunt concerning the deadly wound given to my cause , and the contrary demonstrated by a briefe going through the principall points about this argument , as they have hitherto been disputed . As about Acts 2. 39. Rom. 11. 16. 1 Cor. 7. 14. Colos . 2. 12. Matth. 28. 19. Acts 16 , 15. Matth. 19. 14. &c. Baptisme and the rite of eating bread and drinking wine through old ●ites among the Iewes yet used to another end , and after another rule by Christians . The command confessed to be the formal reason of circumcision by Mr Marshall . Circumcision a priviledge proper to the Jewish Church state . No command about the Iewes Sacraments now in force . Infants not Disciples , as Matth. 28. 19. is meant . Baptizing housholds inferres not infant-baptisme . We have no evidence for judgement of charity concerning infants , nor is a judgement of charity to be our rule in adminstering Baptisme . § 19. Of Master Hassey his pretended satisfactory answer to my exerci●ation . § 20. The Epilogue of this Apology concerning the reason of the enlargement of it , the Authors present estate and future intentions . Notes for div A94733-e27760 § , 1. The occasion of this postscript . § 2. Of Mr. Calamys and M. Vines their wrong judgement of the dispute , Mr. Blakes book , and my discussing the point . §. 4. They that deny Infant-baptisme need not teach that Infants perish . § 5. Of my censure of Master Blakes producing Gal , 4. 29 for the birth priviledge . §. 6. Or the necessity of my taking paines in my Examen to find out the meaning of Mr. Marshals second conclusion by reason of the ambig●ity of his expressions . §. 7. Of the Corinthians doubt . 1 Cor. 7 12 , 13 14. 1 Cor 7. 14. is not meant of instrumentall sanctification and federall holinesse . §. 9. Of M Blak●s m●sallegation of Gal. 2. 15. which was the text he chose for his birth-priviledge . § 8. That 1 P● 2. 9. is meant of the Church invisible . §. 11. Of precedents for womens receiving the Lords Supper . §. 12. To say that God hath promised to be the God of every believer and his uncurall seed is a new Gospell . §. 13. Or Mr Ruthersurds & Mr Blakes opinion about holinesse of a chosen nation , & mediate An cestors profession intitling to Infant-baptisine , & the Independents advantage in this point . §. 14. Of the word [ nations ] Mat. 28. 19. how to be taken . §. 15. Of M. Rutherfurds and Mr Blakes and mine opinion concerning the rule to know who are baptizable . §. 16. About two suppositions ascribed by m● to Mr Marshal and Mr Blake in my Examen page 130. §. 17. About arguments drawn from Analogy in positive rites and their invalidity : and the insufficiency of M. Blakes rules . §. 16. That Mr Blake hath not proved that Infants are disciples from Mat. 18. 5. nor pertinently alleaged . Isai . 49 22. §. 19. of baptizing housholds & my censure of Mr Blakes speech concerning it . §. 20. About Mat. 19 14. that by the Kingdome of heaven is meant the Kingdome of glory . §. 21. That God seales not to every person that is rightly baptized , that his Covenant of grace belongs onely to the elect , that his Covenant is effectuall , and leaves it not to mans liberty to include or exclude himself . Of Mr Blakes unjust crimmination of me as putting the children of beleevers out of the covenant of grace , and the epilogue of this postscript .