an answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england williams, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. church of england -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , liber cui titulus , [ an answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england . ] febr. . . guil. needam , r mo . in christo p. ac . d. d. wilhelmo archiep. cantuar. a sacr. domest . an answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard . mdclxxxviii . an answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england . an address presented to the reverend and learned ministers of the church of england , by one sincerely desirous of finding out the truth , in behalf of himself and others equally concern'd , as well for their own as the general satisfaction . it 's a hard shift the present writers of the church of rome among us , are brought to , that when other helps fail them , they take up with such a sort of arguments , which how useful soever they may prove to make some men of their religion , have a plainer tendency to make others of none . certainly were these persons as much concerned for the truth of christianity , as they are for their own corruptions of it ; or could defend those corruptions in a better way , they would not put the case upon this extremity ; and had they the scripture as much for the church of rome's supremacy and infallibility , &c. as it is for its own sufficiency , the trinity and incarnation of our blessed saviour , we should have heard more of their proofs from scripture , than of requests and addresses to the church of england ( the great patron it seems of these points ) to prove from scripture the trinity and incarnation . these articles of the christian faith are an argument worthy of a serious consideration , if proposed by one that really needs , as well as he pretends to desire , satisfaction . but to have a member of the church of rome ( as our author apparently is ) personating an arrian and other hereticks , and in the face of the world requiring scripture-proof for those above-said points of catholick doctrine : to have this thrust upon us afresh after the unrefuted answers given to the first request , the catholick dialogue , and the plea for a socinian , is no good sign , whatever he pretends , of one sincerely desirous of finding out the truth ; nor would it be worth the while to take up the cause anew for his sake , who i am sensible is not to be satisfied in this way , were it not for some better end it may be useful to . the address consists of several proposals ; which thus begin : there can be no doubt , but that the main concern of man in this vale of tears , is the salvation of his soul. if this be lost , he loses all ; if this be gained , he gains all , and both for an eternity . no body then can blame me , if being solicitous to save my soul , i have recourse to those , whose learning must needs enable them , and whose charity cannot but incline them to instruct me in this weighty affair . i therefore humbly beseech you , most reverend and learned doctors of the church of england , to afford me a clear and satisfactory solution of these following doubts . first , i desire to know , whether all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture ? if not , where must i seek them ? if they be , then they are either clearly contained in it , so that there is no need of an interpreter for the meaning of the words ; or not . if there be no need of any such interpreter , then i humbly ask what these necessaries to salvation are , and in what chapter and verse of scripture each of them may be found . for example ; is the belief of a trinity , &c. for the clearer understanding of the whole , i shall divide it into several questions . q. . whether all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture ? a. if there are things necessary to salvation that are not contained in scripture , the world is , for ought i see , at a great loss where to seek them : for nothing can be necessary to salvation , which was not necessary in the primitive , and will be so to all succeeding ages . but where to find those things thus necessary , out of scripture , that have been of a date and authority equal to it , i know none that have attempted the discovery : nor could we ever yet be favoured with an account of what these necessaries are , and where each of them may be found . so that scripture must contain these necessary things , or else we are left without any means of knowing them . and the scripture must fail of its end , and we of the salvation therein revealed , if that be not as sufficient in its kind to beget faith in us , as faith is to save us . for faith st. john . . these things are written that ye might believe , that jesus is the christ , the son of god , and that believing ye might have life through his name . nay , we are as much assured of this , as we are of its divine authority ; for the same apostle that saith , all scripture is given by inspiration of god , doth immediately before as positively affirm , that the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation , tim. . , . from which consideration it was , that all doubts relating to salvation were hereby to be resolved ; which could not be , were not all things necessary to salvation contained in it . so when that question was put to our saviour , master , what shall i do to inherit eternal life ? he answered , what is written in the law ? how readest thou ? thou knowest the commandments , luke . , . mark . , . and that they had moses and the prophets , was in his estimation sufficient to dispose them to repent , without any other revelation than was therein contained , luke . , , . till it can therefore be shewn , that the scripture was not written to make men wise unto salvation ; or that men might be wise to salvation without knowing the things necessary to it : till it can be proved that the old testament was not a rule of faith and manners to the jews in all points necessary to their salvation ; or that both old and new-testament have not the same end , or not the same sufficiency to that end now to the christian , as the old testament alone had to the jewish church ; we have no reason to think the scripture defective in any thing necessary to salvation , or that there is any other means provided by god to supply its deficiency therein . and in this doctrine we are not alone , but have the concurrence of the most authentick writers of the christian church ; of which sort in particular is that memorable saying of st. austin , all things which concern faith and manners of life , are found in those things which are plainly contained in scripture . a truth that the writers of the church of rome in their soberer thoughts do often acknowledg . so antoninus a. b. of florence , god , saith he , hath spoken but once , and that in the holy scripture , and that so fully as to meet with all temptations , and all cases that may fall out , and all good works ; that , as gregory expounds it , he needs speak no more to us concerning any necessary matter , seeing all things are found in scripture . q. . whether all things necessary to salvation are clearly contained in scripture ? it was , we have seen , the opinion of st. austin , that not only all things thus necessary are contained in scripture , but also that they are plainly therein contained . and yet neither that father nor any of the same mind with him ( as who was not then , and who is not now , except the church of rome ? ) did ever thereby understand that all these necessaries are expresly contained in scripture , since an evident consequence is equivalent to a plain and express proposition ; as it was matt. . , . nor . do they understand by being clearly contained in scripture , that all persons may immediately learn all necessaries , by the meer reading of it ( as our author puts the case ) without the use of those means for the understanding of it , that god has appointed , and the nature of the thing requires ; such as attention , consideration , and the assistance of teaching guides . for the plainness or clearness of the things to be learned and understood , and an instructor to lead us to or help us in the understanding them , are not only consistent , but generally to be supposed . it 's a good saying of one upon this argument ; that is not obscure , which by ordinary means may be apprehended ; but that is so which either hath no means at all to open it , or hath such as are not ordinary . neither . can it be supposed that the scriptures do so clearly contain all things necessary , as that nothing of that kind ever was , or can be excepted against ; for they may be plain , and yet for some prevalent reasons it may not be confessed . they may again be plain , and yet not be understood to be so from several impediments . sometimes this proceeds from a natural impediment , as it is in children , and such as are of a very weak capacity . and yet even to such st. austin supposes them to be intelligible , god having bowed down the scripture to the capacity of babes and sucklings , that when proud men will not speak to their capacity , he himself might . sometimes from moral impediments , such as prejudices and prepossessions , as it was with the apostles who understood not our saviour when he told them openly and plainly , again and again , that he must be killed , mark . , . . , . such again are vile affections , as pride and the love of the world , interest and obstinacy , into which our saviour resolved the jews infidelity , john . , . such are partiality , negligence , sloth and inconsideration . there are also judicial impediments , when for their contempt and obstinacy , &c. god sends men strong delusions , that they should believe a lye , thes. . , . but now where those and the like impediments are not , but that men lay aside all malice , and all guile and hypocrisy , and as new born babes , in the apostles phrase , desire the sincere milk of the word that they may grow thereby , pet. . , . that they come with an honest heart , and use a competent diligence , with a dependance upon god's assistance for the wisdom he hath promised , i know nothing necessary to salvation ( unless what the church of rome hath made so ) but what is plainly taught in scripture , and may be learn'd from it . but without this temper the plainest and most express words , and the necessary meaning of those words will not convince some men . as for example , what more plain , than that in exodus . there is a d commandment distinct from the first ? what more plain , than thou shalt not make to thee any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing , to bow down before it , or worship it ? what more plain , than drink ye all of it , matth. . . what more plain , than that prayer is not to be in an vnknown tongue ? cor. . lastly , what more clear , than that the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation ? and yet we know where these things will not be confess'd . the truth is , that as long as there are prejudices and interest , and depraved affections in mankind , truth will be obscure : and the things that are easy , are yet to hereticks hard to understand , saith st. cyril . but the defect in them , makes none in the scripture , which is as entire , compleat , and clear , when men do disagree about it , as when it is by all unanimously consented to . i shall sum up what i have said in the words of st. chrysostom , who thus delivers himself upon this argument , the scriptures are easy to understand , and exposed to the capacity of every servant and plough-man , and widow , and boy , and him that is most unwise . and again , therefore god penned the scriptures by the hands of publicans , fisher-men , tent-makers , shepherds , neat-herds , and unlearned men , that none of the simple people might have any excuse from reading , and that so they might be easie to be understood of all men , the artificer , the housholder , and widow-woman , and him that is most unlearned : tea the apostles and prophets , as school-masters to all the world , made their writings plain and evident to all men ; so that every man of himself only , by reading them , might learn the things spoken therein . if the reader desires further satisfaction , he may find it in a learned book newly publish'd , called , a discourse concerning the nature and grounds of the certainty of faith , p. , , , &c. q. . what are these necessaries to salvation ? our author offers three instances of such necessaries as are not clearly revealed in scripture , viz. the trinity , the incarnation of our saviour , and the observation of the lord's day . of the first of these he thus discourses . for example ; is the belief of a trinity , one god and three persons , necessary to salvation ? if it be , as the creed of s. athanasius ▪ assures us it is , in what chapter and verse of scripture is it clearly expressed ? if you send me to the epist. of s. john , chap. . ver. . where we read , there are three who give testimony in heaven , the father , the word , and holy ghost , and these three are one ; or to the gospel of s. john , chap. . ver. . i and my father are one ; i desire you to shew clearly out of scripture , that the word one here signifies a strict identity or vnity of substance , as the church of england holds ; not a meer moral vnion , as many learned arrians and others will have it , and as we all confess the same word signifies in s. john , chap. . ver. . where our lord prays that all believers may be one , as he and his father are one ; where certainly he cannot be supposed to mean one in substance . in what verse then and chapter in scripture have we these or the like words , the word one in the epist. of s. john , item in s. john ' s gospel , signifies a strict identity ; which notwithstanding i conceive ought to be , if all necessaries to salvation be clearly contained in scripture . now if the belief of a trinity be not necessary to salvation , i desire it may be clearly owned in these or the like words : 't is not necessary for salvation to believe three persons and one god , notwithstanding the creed of s. athanasius , and definition of the first council of nice , when the church was in her purity , not the least corrupted . the sum of our author's argument is this , that the doctrine of the trinity is not clearly contained in scripture , because unity in some places signifies not a unity of essence , but of will ; which way of arguing supposes that if a word be taken in two or more different senses , then the scripture doth not clearly contain the things contained in those words . as for example ; the word , door , is sometimes taken in scripture in a proper sense , sometimes in a metaphorical ; and being thus differently taken , we cannot according to him , certainly know when it is to be understood properly , and when metaphorically ; and must be at a perfect loss to understand , whether when our saviour is called a door , john . . it 's not meant properly ; and when st. peter is said to stand at the door , john . . it 's not meant metaphorically . or to come nearer to our author , the body of christ is sometimes taken for a natural , sometimes for a mystical body ; and therefore we cannot be certainly assured , whether when joseph begg'd the body of jesus , it 's not to be understood of the mystical body ; and that when the apostles and prophets , &c. were given for the edifying the body of christ , eph. . , . it 's not to be understood of christ's natural body . in this so difficult a case , which is absolutely necessary to be answer'd for the salvation of his soul , p. . ( if you will believe the addresser ) what is to be done ? what in reason will content him ? it 's nothing less than this , that it be shewn , that in some verse and chapter in scripture , we have these or the like words , — the word one in st. john ' s epistle , signifies a strict identity : and he might have gone on without end in the same way ; and one as obstinate as himself , may say , shew me some other chapter and verse , wherein it is said , that the word door , john . is to be understood metaphorically , and the word body , ephes. . is to be understood mystically ; or else it is apparent that we cannot know what door , proper or metaphorical ; or what body , whether natural or mystical , is meant in those places ; for , this ought to be , if these things are clearly contained in scripture . this is a thought , for ought i know , peculiar to our author , ( for i don't find this address comes out with other allowance , than printed for r. taylor ) ; and as i do not envy him the glory of the invention , so i shall leave him the satisfaction of self-enjoyment . indeed his friends the learned arrians went not his way in opposing the trinity , nor the orthodox in defending it ; and therefore if this point was now to be argued , the ministers of the church of england , that hold with the orthodox , and amongst other places produce this of john . . for it , would say , that it 's as plainly said , the father , word , and holy ghost are one , as that they are three ; and that tho unity is sometimes taken in a moral sense , as john . . yet the arguing of st. john in the former place , shews it not to be understood in the same sense as the latter ; he making a plain difference betwixt the unity that is betwixt the three that bear record in heaven , and the three that bear witness in earth ; for of the three that bear record in heaven , it 's said , they are one ; but of the three that bear witness on earth , it 's said , they agree in one. now if it had been a mere moral union that was betwixt the father , word , and holy ghost ( who are the three in heaven ) it would have been as well said of them , as of the spirit , the water and the blood ( which are the three in earth ) that they agree in one. in like manner would the ministers of the church of england support the proof of this article from john . . i and my father are one , and shew that it 's to be understood of the unity of essence , and not of mere will and consent ; because the jews took up stones to stone him for blasphemy , and because that thou being a man , makest thy self god. but since there is a union that may be betwixt god and man without making man to be god , as it is john . . it follows that neither did our saviour speak , nor the jews understand him to have spoken of a moral , but a natural union ; but for this let me recommend the addresser to the second part of the dialogue concerning the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , p. , . and published the last year . his second instance is of the incarnation ; of which he saith , again , is the belief of the incarnation necessary for salvation ? where is it clearly expressed in scripture ? you refer me to s. john , chap. . the word is made flesh. but you know that many learned men , nestorius and others , denied that word to signifie a strict incarnation , but either a moral vnion , or a meer external appearance of a man , as those who held christ not to have a real but a phantastick body . now be pleased to shew me in what verse or chapter it is clearly expressed , that the said words signifie a strict incarnation ? but if you deny the belief of this mystery to be necessary to salvation , own it , for our satisfaction , in these or the like words : it is not necessary for salvation to believe , that the second person of the blessed trinity was made true man. and if the belief of neither trinity nor incarnation are necessary , shew me what 't is , and where expressed in scripture . setting aside what the opinion of nestorius was ( which our author for ought i perceive understands not ) the sum of what is said , amounts to this , that the scripture is not clear in this point ; because , as he saith , many learned men , nestorius and others , deny that word [ he means that phrase ] to signifie strict incarnation . so that if a learned man , or learned men dispute the point , that point so disputed , or the words expressing it , cannot be clear , or the sense certain . but i have before shewed that this is no reason against the perspicuity of scripture in such a case , because nothing can be clearer express'd than many of those things which are sometimes made matter of disputation . as what can be clearer , than that christ had a body of flesh and bones ? yet there were some of our authors learned men , that held christ was a meer external appearance of a man ; and not to have a real , but a phantastic body . and the ministers of the church of england , notwithstanding the denial of his learned men , do yet maintain the incarnation of our blessed saviour to be evidently delivered in the words , the word was ( not is , as he mistakes ) made flesh. for who was the word , but he that is called god , ver . . that made all things ? ver . . and what was his being made flesh , but his being made of the seed of david ? rom. . . and how was he made flesh , but by being united to it , and becoming man ? now if the word , that was god , was the word and not man , before he was made flesh ; and when he was made flesh , did not cease to be the word , then there must be in him two natures united , which is the incarnation . his d instance is , as he saith , in order to practice , and the query upon it , is , then in order to practice , i desire to know , whether it be necessary to salvation , to keep holy the lord's-day , that is , sunday and not saturday . if it be , i desire to know in what chapter and verse it is clearly contained in scripture ; as also where the abrogation of the saturday is clearly expressed ? if it be not necessary for salvation to keep holy the lord's-day , i desire your warrant for it in these or the like terms : it is not necessary to keep holy the lord's-day , that is , sunday . to this i answer , that the obligation to observe the lord's-day is more or less necessary or unnecessary , according to the institution of it ; for such as the institution is , such is the obligation . if it be of mere humane and ecclesiastical institution , it may by the same authority be altered as it was established : if of divine institution , it 's not subject to humane arbitration . and if it be of divine institution , we must have it by the revelation in scripture , or else it cannot be divine . and that it 's established upon such authority , i shall offer these considerations : . there is as much in the reason of the thing for this peculiar day to be observed in the christian church , as there was for the sabbath in the patriarchal and jewish church ; for what the moral sabbath was to man upon his creation , and the ceremonial sabbath was to the jews upon their deliverance out of egypt , deut. . . that is the first day of t●● week , or the lord's day to christians , upon our redemption by christ , which was accomplished and testified in his resurrection on that day . . there is the mark of divine institution set upon it , when that which was otherwise called the first day of the week , was afterwards called the lord's day , rev. . . it being usual in scripture after that times , places , things , and persons were set apart for the service of god by divine institution , to have his name as a mark of propriety given to them : thus we read of the lord 's passover , exod. . . the sabbath of the lord , exod. . . the temple of the lord. the lord's s●pper , cor. . . now i know not what reason can be assigned , that when the things thus dignified by this title , are elsewhere of divine institution , and so named because of that institution ; that this day should be called the lord's day , and not be of divine , but humane institution . . we may observe further , that as the new world of redemption began upon that day , so upon the same day did christ solemnly consecrate the christian church by the descent of the holy-ghost upon the apostles , acts . , . ( as of old , the jewish church was by a cloud or divine appearance , exod. . . kings . , . ) which they had the promise of , and until which , they were not to depart from jerusalem , and to enter upon the work of gathering a church , acts . . . it was the day which the primitive christians in the apostolical times held their stated assemblies upon for divine worship ; as appears acts . . cor. . . this may suffice for the first branch of his query , i desire to know in what chapter and verse it is clearly contained in scripture . his next is , where the abrogation of the saturday [ he means the sabbath ] is clearly expressed ? i may answer him , it 's in the same chapter and verse where the abrogation of circumcision is clearly expressed . and when he can find out chapter and verse for the one , i will undertake to shew him chapter and verse for the other . indeed there was no need of an express abrogation of either ; for baptism being instituted by christ as a means of initiation into his church ; circumcision that was the old way of admission , must fall in course , because the one was inconsistent with the other . so the lord's day being set a-part for the publick and solemn worship of god in the christian church , the sabbath that was before appointed for it , must in reason surrender to it . so the apostle , col. . , . let no man judge you in meat , or drink , or in respect of an holy-day , or of new-moons , or of th● sabbath [ days ] which are a shadow of things to come , but the body is of christ. where the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tho in the plural , signifies the seventh day , or jewish sabbath , as it doth matt. . , . and for the most part in the new-testament : and which being a shadow , as well as meats and drinks , holy-days and new-moons , was with those , and for the same reasons , to cease by the coming of christ. now , as the institution of baptism abrogated circumcision , and the lord's day abrogated the sabbath ; so we may certainly infer , that if the sabbath was a shadow , and abrogated as such ( which the apostle here asserts ) that there was some other day instituted in the place of it ; ( these things mutually inferring each other ) and what that day is , i may leave to our author's guess , without again going to chapter and verse . if you say that everyone is only bound to believe what is clear to him in scripture , reading it with sincerity and humility ; then i must desire to know , what if i , reading scripture sincerely and with humility , cannot find clearly expressed either the trinity or incarnation ? will it not be necessary for the salvation of my soul to believe these two mysteries ? i answer , . sincerity and humility , do imply the due use of all the means a person hath in possession , for the finding out the truth ; such as diligent reading the word of god , prayers , and consultation with such as are most able and fit to assist him : and where this temper is , and this course is taken , there will never be wanting what is necessary . john . . if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine , whether it be of god , or whether i speak of my self . . no man can believe but according to the motives of credibility , and the reasons he hath for his faith. an obligation lies upon all to believe all things necessary to salvation ; but that is when they are proposed : and according to the evidence , so we are to believe , and so only we can . and yet we do not say as this writer words it , that every one is only bound to believe what is clear to him in scripture . for the obligation to believe , doth not depend upon his understanding , but the authority of the revelation ; his want of understanding may be taken as an excuse for his want of faith , but doth not diminish his obligation to believe . . no man shall answer for what he had not a power to do ; and if he wants the means , or fails of the end in a due use of those means , it shall not be imputed to him , john . . if i had not come and spoken unto them , they had not had sin . i do not question , but as he that is truly sincere would believe if he was able , and could see into the strength of evidence for it , so that this ingenuous disposition of mind will be a reason for almighty god to give him that faith which is necessary , or to pardon the want of it ; and if i was to chuse , i had rather be sincere and err in a matter of faith , than believe upon the full conviction of the truth , and yet not be sincere in the p●ofession of it ; being sensible that what is involuntary is a less sin than what is voluntary ; and that i shall suffer less for a fault in my understanding , which i could not help , than for a fault in my will , which i might . therefore let a person first learn sincerity and humility , and read the scripture sincerely and with humility , and then he will be sure to find all truths necessary to salvation , so clearly and sufficiently expressed therein , that he will be thereby convinced of it ; or if he fail in it , he may be sure his sincerity and humility will do more through the grace and mercy of god in christ to save him , than the want of a belief of some things otherwise necessary , can do to damn him . put the case i have recourse ( as by these i have ) to church guides , and they tell me i must believe those mysteries : is it necessary i believe these guides ? if it be , then scripture alone is not clear in necessaries to salvation ; for here i am obliged to believe what is not clear to me in scripture . again , am i bound to keep holy sunday , tho i find no precept for it in scripture , and not saturday , tho i find an express command for it , no-where abregated in scripture , because my guides tell me i must do so ? if i must , then guides are necessary to salvation , and scripture alone without them is not sufficient . be pleased to own this proposition — scripture alone is not sufficient , without guides to interpret it . if notwithstanding my guides , i am not bound to believe either trinity or incarnation , or observe sunday , then i must beg of you to warrant with your authority these words : i am not bound to keep holy the lord's-day or sunday , tho the guides of the church tell me i must , if i cannnot find it clearly in scripture . but you tell me , that necessaries to salvation are either clear in scripture , or evidently deduced out of scripture . very well . assign then these necessaries , and deduce them out of scripture ; shew the verse and chapter from whence is evidently deduced an obligation to keep holy sunday and not saturday . again , the evidence of that deduction is either had immediately from the meer reading of scripture , without help of guides , and then i desire to see the places from whence these necessaries are evidently inferr'd ; or it cannot be had but by the help of guides , and then the scripture alone is not sufficient . what he here saith concerning church-guides , and deductions from scripture , has been before in good part prevented , and shall have a farther reply . but i cannot but observe , before i proceed , how our author doth all along rather design to amuse his reader , than to come to the point ; of which there is not a paragraph , but is an evidence . as for instance , . he thus argues , if all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture , then they are either clearly contained in it , so that there is no need of an interpreter for the meaning of the words , or not , p. . now he cannot but know , that an interpreter for the meaning of the words , is no more denied by us , than it is sufficient for them ; without he understands more by meaning of the words , than he cared his reader should at first perceive . . he argues again , put the case i have recourse to church-guides , and they tell me i must believe those mysteries ; is it necessary i believe those guides ? — am i bound because my guides tell me i must do so ? now he knows that such guides as it 's necessary to believe , are the guides they indeed would have , but we deny . . he proceeds , the evidence of the deduction is either had immediately from the mere reading of scripture , without help of guides ; or &c. now who ever said , that all necessaries are to be learned by all persons by the mere reading of scripture without the use of means , such as attention , consideration , prayer , interpreters , and guides ? . he then infers fallaciously , or it cannot be had but by the help of guides , and then the scripture alone is not sufficient : for when the scripture alone is said to be sufficient , it 's meant so as to contain all things necessary to salvation ; it 's sufficient as a rule for all things belonging to faith and manners , so as to exclude the necessity of any other rule of that kind : but it 's not so alone sufficient as to exclude all means by which it 's to be understood . . he farther conceals himself , when after he had applied the case to church-guides , as if he would be understood of private and ordinary teachers in the church , he at last lodges it in the bosom of some stated and universal infallible and unerring guide , as in the next question . secondly , but if all necssaries to salvation be not clear enough in scripture to be understood without an interpreter , then it will be necessary to know who and where the interpreter is . if you remit me to the decision of the true church , it will be necessary to know whi●h is that church . if you tell me all christian churches joined together , then it follows that i am bound to believe nothing but what all christians agree in ; for what they disagree in , cannot be the sentiment or decision of the whole church , but only of a part of it . i am not then obliged to believe the trinity ; for the arians , tho christians , deny it . i am not obliged to believe the incarnation , for many christians deny that christ was god made man by a strict incarnation , but only by a moral vnion ; that is , he was a man who had the authority of god , as his plenipotentiary , and the like . now then let me know on what all christians agree , and let me have your warrant that i am bound to believe neither the trinity nor incarnation , nor any thing wherein all christians do not agree . now if you tell me i am obliged to stand to the determination of one particular church , or some and not all , tell me which , and why that or those more than others ? what church , for example , were particular persons bound to follow two hundred years ago before the reformation ? our author at first put the question , whether all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture ? and upon this he argues , if they be , then they are either clearly contained in it , so that there is no need of an interpreter for the meaning of them , or not . if the addresser could have gained the first point , that all necessaries are not contained in scripture , then the case lay fair before him , and it would follow ( as he supposes ) that there must be some external and speaking authority from whence those necessaries not contained in scripture , are to be received , and where they are to be fought : this is a case he puts to the question , if not , where must i seek them ? but there he leaves it : indeed it was a tender point , because of late they would have us believe that they have scripture for what they differ from us in ; and then to talk of necessaries not to be found in scripture , and to instance in those necessaries , would be to give up that cause which they have so much laboured to support in that way ; and to tell the world that the church of rome is the treasurer of all those necessaries , is a doctrine not so suitable to the genius of the present age , as it was to others heretofore . but if that would not be yielded , that all necessaries are not contained in scripture , he then puts in with a second , that they are not so clearly contained in it , as not to need an interpreter ; and if this be yielded , he would in his own opinion , save his cause ; for then he concludes there must be some guide and interpreter , and it will be necessary to know who and where the interpreter is . now if we may guess what kind of interpreter or guide it is that he would have , it 's one that is necessary for all to believe , and whose interpretation all are obliged to receive ; a guide that is a judg , and whose judgment is absolute , final , and conclusive , into which all is to be resolved , and from which there is no appeal ; that is to teach all necessaries to salvation not contained in scripture ; and to interpret the meaning of those that are ; without which we cannot know whether there be a trinity , or our saviour was incarnate ; and upon whose determination all the articles of our faith do depend for their declaration . here the case is immutably fixed , says our author , i must believe ; it 's necessary to believe ; i am obliged to believe , and am bound to follow ; as he puts the case . but now we that are for ministerial guides and interpreters that are appointed by god for the teaching his church , and whose office it is to teach them so as they may understand and judg for themselves , know nothing of such a guide as he would introduce upon us ; and we have reason to be cautious , when we find both the apostle declaring against it , cor. . . not for that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers ; and our saviour warning us against such an imposition , matth. . , , . call no man master on earth , for one is your master . it 's his prerogative alone to challenge such an absolute submission from us ; and it 's a gross usurpation in any other to claim and assume it : so that we may leave our author to find out , who , and where the interpreter is ; for we own no such guide or interpreter as he would impose upon us , whether he means by it any particular church , or any part or society of that church , or indeed any humane authority whatsoever . and when he or his partizans think it worth the while to undertake the proof of it , and shall as clearly prove it as the trinity and incarnation are from scripture ; we that profess the latter , and are as sincerely desirous of finding out the truth as he can be , do promise him to own the former ; and for this reason , and that they may have a fair occasion offered to try their skill upon it , i shall put the case a little forward . i am sensible our author would take it in good part to have it granted that all things necessary to salvation are not contained in scripture , and to have it brought to his first question , if so , where must i seek them ? or that , they are not clear enough in scripture without an interpreter ; that at least the next question may be brought on , who , and where the interpreter is ? and therefore to gratifie him as much as i can , i shall for the present suppose that all things necessary are not in scripture ; and then in his order and words , i ask , what those necessaries to salvation are , that are not contained in scripture , and where each of them may be found ? now he that supposes this , must proceed upon the principles of the church of rome ( since no church besides , that i know of , is of this mind . ) and whither may we expect to be directed so soon as to the creed of pope pius iv. which contains the chief of those doctrines they differ from other churches in , and which are made as necessary to be received and believed , as the articles of the nicene creed , being by that pope's authority , in consequence of the order of the council of trent , incorporated into one and the same profession of faith. by which means they are forced upon one of these two difficulties , either to prove their new-coined articles by scripture as well as those of the nicene creed ; or to show that the articles of the nicene creed are no more to be proved from scripture , without tradition and the churches explication , than those of pope pius : the former they are never able to do , and all their attempts that way have proved vain and unsuccessful ; and therefore they have taken several ways for the latter , sometimes detracting from the sufficiency or perspicuity of scripture , at other times exalting tradition , and church-authority to an equality with it . for since all these points are made by this means equally necessary to salvation ; and since it 's as necessary to believe on pain of damnation , that the church of rome is the mother and mistress of all churches ; and that the body and blood of christ are truly , really , and substantially , together with his soul and divinity , in the sacrament , and the whole substance of the bread is turned into the body , and the whole substance of the wine into his blood , &c. since it 's as necessary to believe this , as the being of a god , the trinity , and incarnation of our blessed saviour , and that they are sensible they are not to be proved in the same way , they find themselves obliged to give the same authority to one as the other , and to bring down the scripture to the church , or exalt the church to the authority of scripture . so that if we will look for things necessary , not contained in scripture , we must have recourse to the church , which can , as they say , ordain new articles of faith , and which whenever so ordained are as much to be believed and received as those which have their authority immediately from scripture . and after our author hath beat about , and done his endeavour to loosen the articles of our faith from the written revelation , and the foundation of the prophets and apostles ; hither he would bring the case , that we are obliged to stand to the determination of one particular church , as he insinuates , page . but now to return his own words upon him , if you remit me to the decision of the true church , it will be necessary to know which is that church . for since there are several pretenders , and there are christian arrians , as he saith , and many other dissenters , how shall i find out this true church , and why that more than others ? is it because she herself saith she is the true church ? all the rest claim the like character of being a true church ; and besides ; this is to demand the thing that is to be proved . is it that she is like a city upon an hill , or the sun in the firmament , to be known by a self-evident light ? why is it not then as well known , and indisputably owned to be the true church , and the only true church , as a city to be a city , or the sun to be the sun ? is it to be found out by the notes and marks of the true church ? then we must find out the marks before we find out the church that is to be known by them . and then the pinching question comes on , where must i seek these notes ? it 's to be feared that will lead us to the scripture ; and then we know what follows . lastly , are we to find out the church by an infallible guide ? then we are to find such a guide out of the church ; and that we have no direction where to seek , or by what notes we may know it . here indeed we are left in a maze to beat out the way , and they that have made the church a guide , have appointed no guide to lead us to the church . that is a track we must find of our selves , there we must use our own simple reason , consideration , and enquiry . so that how certain soever we may be when in the church , we can never be infallibly certain which is the church that we are bound to follow ; because this kind of certainty is peculiar to the church , and not to be had out of it . but since we have gone thus far upon supposition , let us take it for granted once more , that the church is upon the hill visible and demonstrable , yet because the church is a collective body , where is the seat of that infallible authority , that i am to attend to , and finally to be determined by ? is it in every particular person ? then because infallibility knows no degrees , i my self should in that church be as infallible as the supreme pastor of it . is it in one particular person , or in a general council ? who , and where is it ? must i suspend till i know , or till all the parts of the church agree in it ? if you tell me all joyned together ( as our author has taught me to reason ) then it follows i am bound to believe nothing of this kind , but what all agree in ; for what they disagree in , cannot be the sentiment or decision of the whole church , but only of a part of it . i am not then obliged to believe the pope's infallibility ; for the councils of basil and constance , and the french church , tho papists deny it . nor am i obliged to believe a council infallible without the pope , because those at rome deny it . and because what 's a good argument in one case , is good in another ; let me have our author's warrant , that i am bound to believe neither infallible , since neither of these agree with the other . for certainly i am no more obliged to believe the infallibility of their church , which they do thus disagree in , than our author would perswade us that we are not obliged to believe the trinity , because the arrians , tho christians , deny it . but supposing that the seat of infallibility be clear and evident ; yet how can i , that am at a vast distance of years or place from that oracle , whatever it is , be infallibly assured that these that are put into my hands are the very results and decrees of that authority ? or that this that i think , or am told , is the true and undoubted sense of them ? or ( to speak modestly ) how can i be as much assured of the truth of these matters , as i am of the authority and sence of scripture ? or that christ hath not spoken as plainly and intelligibly in the scriptures , as his vicar or substitutes have in any of their canons and decrees ? so that tho the church be infallible , and i a member of that infallible church ; yet what will that infallibility avail me , when i am without the doors of that infallible council , or out of the reach of the immediate dictates of the infallible chair ? and unless the spirit of infallibility descends from the chair to the meanest priest who is to instruct and direct me ; or is indorsed upon every decree , and inspires every article with its own unerring sense ; i am not infallibly certain . and i may be no more certain of the true doctrine of the infallible church , than i am of the sense of scripture under the conduct of a fallible church ; since the immediate authority i depend upon for the doctrine , and the sense of it , is all this while fallible . as for example , i am told that there is such a creed as that before mentioned of pope pius iv. that contains in it such articles that every one is so bound to believe , as without the belief of which no man can be saved : and i find in that creed , that the church of rome is the mother and mistress of all churches . and yet how shall i be infallibly assured , first , that there ever was such a person as pope pius the th ? or that he ever composed such a creed ? or that the foresaid supremacy of the church of rome is one of those articles ? the pope i never saw , nor am like to see . a council is a rare thing , and what they care not to hear of at rome , and are able to do as well without as with it . and therefore where shall i be infallibly instructed in these matters ? how shall i then be sure that the article aforesaid is not to be understood , that the church of rome is the mistress of all churches within the particular diocess of rome only ? for here is a different use of the same word ; and if , in our author's way of arguing , a different use of the same word will render us uncapable of attaining the sense contained in these words , it would be to little purpose to read the word without an infallible assistant always at hand to explain it clearly and certainly to us . so that if there be no better way to end the many controversies of this age , than what he calls the only and surest way , they are likely to continue for his time . and if their church has no surer way to bring the case to an issue , than this of exposing christianity to save themselves , they will as soon make men to quit all religion , as that which they have , to be of theirs , of which they cannot be , but by subverting those principles upon which the best religion in the world , the christian , is supported . here i might have concluded ; but our author may take it ill , if after i have traced him from paragraph to paragraph , i should leave out his pathetical conclusion , which is as follows : i conceive , an answer to these doubts absolutely necessary for the salvation of my soul. for how can i be saved , if i know not what is necessary thereunto ? i need not say a satisfactory one , for no other can flow from your learned and virtuous pens ; i only fear that some pin-feather'd divine , out of an itch to appear in print , may prevent yours , and put me off with a flim-flam , or an uncharitable jeer , or railing against some particular church he may fancy me to be of , which is nothing to my purpose , who seek where i may find securely necessaries to salvation , not where i cannot find them . this would be also prejudicial to the church of england ; for when men see doubts so sincerely and submissively proposed , answered only with jeers , railing and invectives , or omitted and let pass , as not deserving an answer , they must needs doubt of the learning ae well as of the virtue and charity of their leaders . now were the satisfaction i here desire , intended for myself alone , it might have seemed more proper to have made my address in particular to some one of your reverend and learned body ; but forasmuch as it concerns so many others , and as i perswade my self , will prove extremely beneficial to religion , it being the surest , nay only way to end the many controversies of this age , i am forced to desire of you , whose high character obliges you to a zeal of souls , a publick , and withal a speedy answer , by which you will highly oblige , sirs , yours ever . london : printed for randall taylor , . our author has too plainly discovered himself , and had reason to suppose his reader might well fancy him to be of some particular church ; and he may as well expect to receive a due correction for this his dissimulation , that pretends to be in doubt , and yet to be in a church ( as he supposes ) infallible ; that pretends the answer to these doubts absolutely necessary for the salvation of his soul , and yet is of a church in which he is judged to hazard his soul if he doth but doubt ; that presents an address to the ministers of the church of england , to resolve his doubts , and yet has a guide of his own whom it's necessary to believe , and whom he is bound to follow ; that pretends to be sincerely desirous of finding out the truth , and doth all he can to involve it : lastly , that brings these very doubts to the ministers of the church of england , that have been of late so frequently answered by them , to the confutation , tho , it seems , not altogether to the silencing of their adversaries . i will direct him to the books , and i hope by way of courtesie he will in his next direct us to the answers that have been since returned to them . the peoples right to read the holy scripture , in answer to the representer . a discourse concerning a guide . a vindication of the answer to some late papers . page , &c. an answer to a late dialogue , between a new catholick convert , and a protestant , to prove the mystery of the trinity , &c. the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , &c. in parts . an answer to the request to protestants to produce plain scriptures , &c. with the vindication of it , called , a short summary of the principal controversies . an answer to a book entituled , reason and authority . page , , &c. the difference betwixt the protestant and socinian methods , in answer to the potestant's plea for a socinian . all these books , with several others to the same purpurpose , were printed the last year ; and if our author had consulted them , as he ought , and had as sincerely read them , as he pretends to propose his doubts ; whatever his confidence might , i am apt to think his conscience would not have found any just occasion to have made this address , nor needed another to answer it . but it seems nothing less will satisfy our author , than an answer from the ministers of the church of england . it 's not a particular person that he conceives sufficiently qualified to undertake his case , and to rescue his soul , which he is so solicitous to save out of this danger ; and to instruct him in this weighty affair . but it is their reverend and learned body ( as he fleeringly stiles them ) that he presents his address to ; from whom he expects a publick , and withal a speedy answer . he writes as if they were now in convocation , or that they were all obliged through the two provinces forthwith to assemble about this important case ; and by one solemn act of theirs , to return an answer to these doubts , which is absolutely necessary for the salvation of his soul. but because it 's now not a season for this purpose , and 't will be too long to stay till the days grow longer , and the ways better , i thought i might as well presume to try what might be done by a private hand , and he might as well accept of it , as he might present an address to the ministers of the church of england , in behalf of himself and others , and at last subscribe in his own name with a , sirs , yours ever . finis . books lately printed for richard chiswell . a discourse of the holy eucharist in the two great points of the real presence , and the adoration of the host ; in answer to the two discourses lately printed at oxford on this subject : to which is prefixed a large historical preface relating to the same argument . two discourses ; of purgatory , and prayers for the dead . the fifteen notes of the church , as laid down by cardinal bellarmin examined and confuted . . with a table to the whole . preparation for death : being a letter sent to a young gentlewoman in france , in a dangerous distemper of which she died . by w. wake , m. a . the difference between the church of england and the church of rome , in opposition to a late book , intituled , an agreement between the church of england and church of rome . a private prayer to be used in difficult times . a true account of a conference held about religion at london , sept. . . between a. pulton , jesuit , and th. tenison , d. d. as also of that which led to it , and followed after it . . the vindication of a cressener , schoolmaster in long-acre , from the aspersions of a. pulton , jesuit , schoolmaster in the savoy , together with some account of his discourse with mr. meredith . a discourse shewing that protestants are on the safer side , notwithstanding the uncharitable judgment of thier adversaries ; and that their religion is the surest way to heaven . . six conferences concerning the eucharist , wherein is shewed , that the doctrine of transubstantiation overthrows the proofs of christian religion . a discourse concerning the pretended sacrament of extreme vnction ; with an account of the occasions and beginnings of it in the western church . in three parts . with a letter to the vindicator of the bishop of condom . the pamphlet entituled , speculum ecclesiasticum , or an ecclesiastical prospective-glass , considered , in its false reasonings and quotations . there are added , by way of preface , two further answers , the first , to the defender of the speculum ; the second to the half-sheet against the six conferences . a second defence of the exposition of the doctrine of the church of england , against the new exceptions of mons. de meaux , late bishop of condom , and his vindicator . the first part . in which the account that has been given of the bishop of meaux's exposition , is fully vindicated ; the distinction of old and new popery historically asserted , and the doctrine of the church of rome , in point of image-worship , more particularly considered . . a second defence of the exposition of the doctrine of the church of england , against the new exceptions of mons. de meaux , late bishop of condom , and his vindicator . the second part . the incurable scepticism of the church of rome . by the author of the [ six conferences concerning the eucharist ] . mr. pulton considered in his sincerity , reasonings , authorities : or a just answer to what he hath hitherto published in his true account ; his true and full account of a conference , &c. his remarks ; and in them his pretended confutation of what he calls dr. t 's rule of faith. by th. tenison , d. d. a full view of the doctrines and practices of the ancient church relating to the eucharist , wholly different from those of the present roman church , and inconsistent with the belief of transubstantiation . being a sufficient confutation of consensus veterum , nubes testium , and other late collections of the fathers pretend●ng to the contrary . an answer to the representer's reflections upon the state and view of the notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e address . answer . address . answer . de doctr. christ. l. . c. . sum. part . tit. . c. . ff . . white 's way to the true church . sect. . n. . enarrat . in ps . . in john . . c. . homil. . in math & hom. de laz. address . answer . address . answer . address . answer . q. . address . answer . address . answer . address . answer . address . a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons, on wednesday the th of december, being a solemn day of fasting and humiliation, appointed by his majesty, for imploring the blessing of almighty god upon the consultations of this present parliament / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons, on wednesday the th of december, being a solemn day of fasting and humiliation, appointed by his majesty, for imploring the blessing of almighty god upon the consultations of this present parliament / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. fast-day sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion dr. williams's fast-sermon preach'd before the house of commons , on wednesday the th of december , . jovis . die decemb. . ordered , that the thanks of this house be given to dr. williams for the sermon by him preach'd before this house yesterday at st. margarets westminster , and that he be desired to print the same . and that sir robert cotton do acquaint him therewith . paul jodrel . cler. dom. com. a sermon preached before the honourable house of commons , on wednesday the th of december , . being a solemn day of fasting and humiliation , appointed by his majesty , for imploring the blessing of almighty god upon the consultations of this present parliament . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r and jun r ; at the rose and crown in st. paul s church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . m dc xc v. a sermon preach'd before the house of commons , &c. sam . ii. . them that honour me , i will honour ; and they that despise me , shall be lightly esteemed . the words of the text are a general proposition , but made use of as a reason to justify the severity of the threatning here denounced by a prophet against the house and family of eli ; whose sons at that time executed the priests office under him at shiloh : of whom , and their case , it is requisite to give some account , as an exemplification of the text , and what may serve also as a comment on it . eli , that was then high priest , was a descendant of ithamar the younger son of aaron ; but how the succession came to be alter'd , which from aaron's death had probably continued for seven generations in the line of eleazar the elder brother , the scripture is silent . there is nothing to be collected from thence to eli's disadvantage and disparagement , in the double charge he officiated in , whether as a judge , in which station he was for forty years together , or as the high priest . there is not a syllable that charges him with intrusion any more into the priesthood , than into the judicature . there was in being at that time a meraioth or an amariath , one of the family of eleazar , and the next in blood and pretence too , if a direct succession were inviolably to be observed , and yet it is no where imputed to eli that he invaded or was possess'd of another's right ; nor is it said that any did abhor the offering of the lord for that reason , as they did for another . no! there we find elkanah and hannah ( and without doubt those pious persons were not alone ) repairing to the tabernacle at the appointed seasons , and applying themselves to him as god's minister , and the director of the publick service . to him , and his sons , were they wont to bring their offerings , as it is expresly said there , v. . when elkanah went up out of his city yearly to worship , and to sacrifice unto the lord of hosts in shiloh ; the two sons of eli , hophni and phineas , the priests of the lord , were there . whence this translation of the priesthood , from the elder to the younger house , proceeded ; or when it was , whether before , or whether it began in eli ( as it is most probable ) is not certain . it seems , whenever it was , to have been by god's approbation , if not his immediate direction ; and that , perhaps , for some gross neglect , or great miscarriages , or some incapacity on the other side : or from the necessity of having such a person in that station in those perilous and uncertain times , as would by a wise and steady hand , and his prudent conduct , and above all , by his exemplary piety and vertue , maintain the honour and dignity of the priesthood , and keep the people firm to their religion , under all the inclinations , and too often prevailing inclinations to idolatry . this seems to have been the state of affairs at that time , and the reason of eli's introduction into the priesthood . and because of the difficult service he was to enter upon , god encouraged him ( as he was wont to do in great undertakings ) by a particular promise of establishing his posterity in that sacred function ; as the words immediately preceding the text do intimate ; i said indeed that thy house , and the house of thy father should walk before me for ever . eli , as to his own person , and whilst in a condition , seems to have answer'd this character , and to have acquitted himself worthy of the choice made of him , in both capacities , as a priest , and a judge ; for during the whole time of his administration , the times seem to have been quiet , and the nation in an orderly condition for about forty years together ; and accordingly it is pass'd over in silence in the sacred annals . but eli grew superannuated , being years old , and blind , and uncapable of officiating in person at the altar ; and so it fell to his sons , two dissolute young men , that being from under their father's eye , and possess'd of so large a power , as from him devolved upon themselves , set no bounds to their arbitrary and licentious humours , but broke through all the ties of piety and modesty , treating the institutions of their religion with so prophane an insolence , that men abhor'd the offering of the lord ; and so lewd were they in their conversation , that by their example and encouragement , they made ( as their father tells them ) the lord's people to transgress . this was a case too hard and perverse to cure by gentle means and calm reasoning , the way used by their over-indulgent father , verse , . therefore it was time for god to appear to threaten and to punish : 't is time then for him to reverse his own laws , to cancel his promises , and recal his favours which were so ungratefully and impiously abused ; so it is represented in this verse , wherefore the lord god of israel saith , i said indeed , that thy house , and the house of thy fathers , should walk before me for ever : but now the lord saith , be it far from me : for them that honour me , i will honour ; and they that despise me , shall be lightly esteemed . . i shall treat of these words by themselves as a general proposition , and as containing several important truths , and that are worthy of our most serious consideration . . i shall treat of them with respect to the context , and make use of them by way of application to the occasion . before i proceed to which , give me leave to observe , that though it is in the power of every man , more or less , as well as it is his duty , to honour god by his words and actions , by the obedience he gives to his laws , and the acknowledgments he makes of his providence , by the regard he pays to the sacred offices and institutions of religion ; yet that this more especially belongs to those that are in a more eminent station , and have greater advantages and opportunities for doing good , than others , by their authority , power , and example . of these it 's said , that if they then honour god , and lay out themselves , and use their utmost endeavours for promoting his religion in the world , he will then honour them , that is , will shew himself to be their god , by supporting them under all the discouragements they meet with , by directing them to the most proper methods , and giving success to all their endeavours ; by raising them a just esteem , and making even their enemies to be at peace with them ; and by a thousand other ways , that good and worthy persons have the comfortable experience of in the faithful discharge of their duty toward god and men. to these the words ( as they are before us ) do more especially belong , them that honour me , i will honour . of which i shall treat first of all , as a proposition in general , and by it self . . i shall treat of the words by themselves , them that honour me , i will honour . the honour due to almighty god , is founded upon the same reason as his being ; and by the same arguments and ways that we know him to be , by the same is he concluded to be of infinite power and wisdom , and indued with all those perfections which make him to be god , are peculiar to him , and do distinguish him from all other beings besides ; and for that reason we can no more be wanting in the honour due to such a being , than we can suppose him not to be , or not endued with those glorious perfections that unalienably belong to his nature . and therefore if we did not understand the depravation of human nature , nor had any experience of the state and inclinations of mankind , we might well suppose that we should find the whole world a temple , and all mankind , in fact , agreeing in a constant adoration and honour of god , as they do in the belief of him. for who can consider the wonderful power and wisdom shining through the works of the visible creation , without the profoundest reverence for their great and almighty creator ? who can contemplate his goodness and his mercy , his mercy to the worst , and his beneficence to all ; his readiness to give what we want , and to forgive when we have offended ; but must express his sense of it by an humble love to his gracious benefactor , and a hearty desire of being conformable to him in the like divine temper ? who can consider god's government of the world , and his constant preservation of mankind , and an order amongst them under all vicissitudes and changes , which like an earthquake tear up , as it were , the foundations of kingdoms ; but must own his and the world's preserver by his prayers to him , and a dependance upon him ? who that considers the equity and perfection of the divine law , how suitable to the nature , reason , and condition of mankind , but must testifie his regard to it by a ready and chearful obedience ? who can reflect upon the preservation of a church ( the conservator of divine truth ) under all the opposition it has met with from the fury of bad men , and the malice and craft of evil spirits , that with one consent have been confederates against it ; but must acknowledge the watchful providence that presides over it , and which has made even the blood of its martyrs , and the sufferings of its confessors , to be the seed of the church ? lastly , who is there that has made any observation of himself , and look'd into the circumstances of his life in the various scenes of it , of youth and manhood , of prosperity and adversity , of health and sickness , of success and disappointments , of the mistakes and miscarriages when he has trusted to his own wisdom and conduct ▪ , and the wonderful turn of affairs to his advantage , when he often least thought and expected ; but must own a cause superiour to himself , and his obligations to this almighty power ? these are considerations lie open to every man's eye ; and , in reason , we might as soon find so many infidels and atheists in the world , as any contemners of the most high. surely there is no need of any other arguments than the nature of the thing to induce us to honour our creator , preserver and benefactor ; and so the text may seem to be in vain , when 't is said by way of argument , them that honour me , i will honour . what need is there of this doctrine ? what need of any rewards proposed and promised , any more to provoke , encourage and oblige us to honour god , than to love our selves ? since the same reason that will direct us to the one , will also direct us to the other . surely then there cannot be an instance given of so hateful a creature as the other part of the text supposes , of one that despises god , no more than of one that denies him : and if such an one there were , it may reasonably be supposed the whole world would with one mouth condemn him , and cast him out of their communion . but it was not in that age alone that there were such hophni's and phineas's , such sons of belial , that knew not the lord ; and such among the people that abhorred the offering , and that despised the divine institutions . it has been too much the vice of most ages ; and i wish i could say , that this in which we live , were among those that are to be excepted : for then , whatever need there were of this doctrine in a degenerate age and nation , there would be no need of it in ours . but though , blessed be god , we are not arriv'd to that prodigious state of impiety , and that the offerings to almighty god , and the publick offices of our religion , are not so prophaned , as among the israelites at that time ; but are maintained , generally speaking , by the guardians of the law , and the governors of the church , as well as by the laws and established order : yet we may find too much of that impiety insinuating it self among us ; and work enough for all concerned in the government of church and state to provide against . and therefore that the argument of the text is fit to be insisted upon . but i shall refer the treating of it in this way to the second general . in the mean time , as the words lie before us , we may collect from them , . that religion and the civil interest are closely connected : the honouring of god , and god's honouring those that thus honour him . . that religion is in the first place to be taken into consideration : first honour god , and then god will honour . . according as religion is encouraged , and god thereby honoured , may we judge concerning the state of persons or nations . . religion and the civil interest are closely connected . it was strictly so among the jews , whose government was a theocracy , the constitution of god's sole contrivance , and his immediate establishment ; so that they could not admit of any alteration , or revocation , but by the same divine authority . and the law of the land being then of god's own institution , there was a peculiar providence and blessing that was connected to their obedience by a divine promise : and by this they were eminently distinguished from other nations . but though it was thus with them after an especial manner , yet the whole world always was , and ever will be under the government of god's providence ; and the same general reasons are there for it over the face of the earth . it being in this case , as it is in government amongst men , which however it varies , whether a monarchy , aristocracy or democracy , has the same foundation , and the same ends to pursue ; which are the determining and securing mens rights , the impartial administration of justice , and the preservation of the publick peace and order . and howsoever the providence of god may vary in its motions , now turning it self this way , and then another ; yet there are immoveable reasons upon which it always proceeds , and that is religion , and the blessing of god ; our honouring of him , and his honouring of us , in conjunction and co-operation . for religion will stand to the world's end , whatever become of particular persons and governments : as the earth will abide for ever , though the inhabitants of one age give way to another ; though rivers change their course , and mountains their station . and 't is religion that gives the surest establishment , and infuses a new life into a nation , or a cause , when it seems to be upon point of expiring ; for that engages providence on its side ; and then they have in reality what the heathens had in imagination only , when they fought , as they conceived , against poor mortals , with the advantage of having their gods concerned in their quarrel . while mortals engage with mortals only , there is the like force to defend , as to assault ; and the success depends upon the greater numbers , the inbred courage of the soldiery , the conduct of the commander , or some fortunate accident : and the last sometimes has the advantage of all the rest , and is instead of numbers , conduct , or courage ; so that as solomon observes , the battel is no more to the strong , than the race is always to the swift , eccles . . . but now when the divine providence comes to be concerned , it is not what the number , or the courage , or the conduct , nay or accidents , are on the adverse side : because that 's all in it self , and becomes all whereever it is . and there it will be , where the honour of god and religion is concerned . this was it that inspired david with an undaunted resolution ; thou comest to me with a sword , and with a spear , and with a shield ; but i come to thee in the name of the lord of hosts , whom thou hast defied , sam. . . and these are no more to be separated , than the soul and the body ; for if we once with goliah defy , or to speak in milder terms , neglect or despise religion , and have no regard to the honour of god in our consultations and resolutions , our affairs and proceedings , we are upon the brink of destruction ; and if we are preserv'd , and become successful , it is not for our own sakes , but for the sake of others , or some further design the providence of god has in reserve for us . there is a vast difference between what is done by divine providence for our own sakes , and what for the sake of others , or for other reasons than what appear , and what are unknown at present to us . if for our own sakes , as it is , when grounded upon religion , and the honour we pay to almighty god , it will then continue , and last as long as the reason lasts upon which it stands . but if it be for other reasons that we succeed in a design , and not for our own sakes ; then when the reasons cease , our assistance that we had from the divine providence ceases with it . thus it was with the haughty assyrian , who prosper'd in his invasion of judea , not as he himself thought , by the wisdom of his own counsel , and the mere force of his arms ; but as he was the rod of god's anger , and sent by his special commission against that hypocritical nation . but that service ended , there was a stop put to his victory , and he soon fell under the like calamity ; as it follows , when the lord hath performed his whole work on mount zion , i will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of assyria , and the glory of his high looks , isa . . , &c. in which case prosperity and success may be so far from being a blessing , that it becomes a curse ; and often men are thereby made but instruments of mischief to each other , and the assyrian is conquer'd by the babylonian , the babylonian by the persian , the persian by the grecian ; and the grecian after a little time dies , as it were , upon the spot ; and the power , which when intire , was confiderable , broke and crumbled into numerous kingdoms , and came to nothing . and thus it has been throughout the world from the time of the mighty hunter nimrod , to the present age ; when it has been a mere humane world , subsisting , as it were , by it self , and managed by the policy , and too often by the passions and vices of mankind ; by their ambition and their pride , their revenge and cruelty , the great incentives and boutefeus of the world. and thus there will be a circulation of rising and falling , of punishing and being punished ; and like billows of the ocean , of swallowing up , and being swallowed up , till the world's end ; whilst in this condition , whilst acted and managed by the interests of men , without respect had to a higher cause , and principle , viz. religion , and the providence of god. but now if we consider the world as a compound state , when there is as certain connexion between religion and the state , as between the soul and the body ; then there is another account to be given of things , and a better state to be expected . the world is then as the jewish state was , a kind of theocracy , god is the governor , and religion , as it were , the soul of it : and then it is that god becomes their patron , and his providence their security . indeed without the providence of god , we are neither secure of what we have , nor can be sure of success in what we pretend to . it is there only that we are safe , by that only we can hope to succeed . and therefore as there cannot be a more comfortless prospect in view , than to take a cause in hand , where we cannot promise to our selves that assistance ; so there cannot be a greater or more dangerous error committed in the conduct of affairs , than to leave that out of our consideration , and to separate those two interests of religion and civil affairs , which god hath so advantageously , as to the good of mankind , joyned together . . as these two are thus to be connected , so religion is to have the preference : them that honour me , i will honour . second causes have this advantage of the first , that they are visible , and so sooner affect us than the supreme , who is invisible ; and therefore mankind have been inclined to direct their expectations and endeavours another way . and as the heathens , for want of looking further , made the most conspicuous , and sometimes the meanest creatures , because present , the objects of their adoration ; so when second causes stare us in the face , and we see how one moves another , and from what immediate reasons the success of affairs doth arise ; we are apt to begin with them , there to stay our hand and lodge our thoughts , and depend upon their concourse and influence as if they all moved of and from themselves , and there were no superior power , no invisible agent , that they had a relation to , and dependance upon . thus it was with them , isa . . . &c. they looked to the armour of the house of the forest , made up the breaches , gathered together the waters of the lower pool , made a ditch for the old pool ; but , saith god , ye have not looked to the maker thereof . but this is an unpardonable oversight , to begin thus at the wrong end ; as if because an artificer uses a pencil and colours in the various figures which he draws , and sets off by his skill to the greatest advantage ; that a person should impute all to the instruments the artist uses and applaud their skill , and apply himself to them as the operator , and pass by the painter , upon whose judgment they wholly depend in their use and operation . much so do they that apply themselves to the next causes , and to the means ( how proper and sufficient soever they are in their own nature to answer the design ) to the neglect of him who is the supreme cause , and that gives laws and activity to all inferior agents , and directs , and over-rules , and determines them as he pleases . an imprudence that no person would be guilty of in any case besides . it is not to be denied but all these inferior powers , these second causes , these instruments and means , may be and are very proper , convenient , and necessary in their place and order ; but to begin with them without asking leave , and begging the blessing of god in the use of them ; is of inferior to make them supreme , of instruments and means , to make them the efficient ; and what therefore they may with the like devotion , as the romans applied themselves to fortune , make the objects of their prayer . prayer is somewhere due , for we receive what we cannot of our selves procure ; we live as well as we begin to be , by the like power ; and if we enter upon our affairs under the influence only of our own wisdom and power , we may as well pray to our selves , as depend upon our selves ; since where our dependance is , there are our devotions due . but how ridiculous would he appear , that should thus adore himself , and pray to himself ? a folly greater than that of caligula , who when he required others to own him for a god , could not in the mean time think himself to be so . and yet this is a folly he must be guilty of that doth not in the first place own a god and a providence , in the guidance and conduct of human affairs ; and darkly pursues them under the covert of a blind chance , or of a wisdom of his own , very often as blind as that . we are taught a wiser course , and what will always hold and continue to be so , prov. . , . trust in the lord with all thine heart ; and lean not unto thine own understanding . in all thy ways acknowledge him , and he shall direct thy paths . or as it is here ; them that honour me , i will honour . . according to the honour we give to god , and the regard shewn to religion , we may expect to be honoured by him ; such we may expect the event will be . it is an easy thing to conceive that such the event will be , forasmuch as god governs the world ; and when we lay things in their proper order , there is no reason to think but that prosperity , honour , and success , should attend those that honour god ; as heat and light do the sun. and we may as well question , whether it will be day when the sun rises ; and whether it will be summer with us when the sun is in cancer ; as whether god , who is infinitely good , and has the sovereign disposal of all things , will not so govern and order , as shall be for the interest , good , and happiness , of such as honour him . and yet if we draw near , and view the case as it is often in fact , we shall find it far different from what it is in speculation . if indeed this were constantly so , that those that honour god were always honoured by him with such peculiar marks of favour as distinguished them from others , it would serve as a character by which the good might be known from the bad. but since nothing is more evident from common experience , than that all things , generally speaking , come alike to all ; then those that do not honour god , may fare alike with such as do ; and those that do honour him , fare no better than those that do not ; and so the force of the argument in the text will be lost . but setting aside , for the present , what may be said in defence of the method of divine providence in such a seeming promiscuous dispensation of things ( as the wiseman speaks of ) and the reconcileableness of the proposition in the text to it , as to particular persons ; we are to remember what has been already said , that it is more especially to be applied to such persons that are of eminent character in respect of quality , or office ; or for the advantages they have and improve to the honour of god , and promoting of religion . such as these god doth honour in the eye of the world , and by providences as extraordinary as their stations and improvements , doth often , and for the most part , crown with success , or a blessing greater than that . so that even their disapointments shall be to their advantage , their danger to their security , and their fall , if not to their after-advancement ( as was the case of job and joseph ) shall be , however , to their reputation and honour . such as these that do good for goodness sake , and that lay out themselves for the honour of god , the service of religion , and therein for the publick good , are benefactors to mankind ; and had they lived among the heathen , who had no better , they should have been taken into the kalendar of their gods : and surely such as these will god more especially regard . but if we raise the argument higher , and apply it to nations and communities , it improves in our hands , and we have a noble instance of this truth . it must be granted , that god that has a regard to the flowers of the field , the fowls of the air , and the beasts of the earth , is as much more concerned in the good , preservation , and happiness of mankind , as these in their nature exceed the other ; but yet because we see not into all the events and circumstances relating to men in this world , and that there is a reserve for them in another ; we cannot so settle what relates to them , but that we are forced to suspend , and must acknowledge there are great difficulties , and that must remain so to be , till the whole comes to be disclosed . but now as to men combined together in societies , the case is not so perplexed ; for there we may , generally speaking , observe , and perhaps , if a careful history of acts and events were preserved , it would appear , that god doth honour those nations which honour him ; and that there is no people among whom , as well by their practice as laws , virtue and religion have been , and are encouraged , but has a suitable blessing attending it , and the divine providence eminently appearing in their behalf . even among the heathens this was both acknowledged and experimented . and if we will but take the pains to consider the periodical revolutions among the jews , we should find all along through the course of that history , that it is a continued series and narrative of the divine providence , proceeding by this rule : so that i am confident there cannot be one instance given to the contrary , that ever they were delivered up to their enemies , or had any great misfortune befel them , but what was brought upon them from some foregoing apostacy , and high provocation . and if there be any thing wanting for the proof of this part ( of god's honouring them that honour him ( as surely there is not ) yet there are instances upon instances on the other part , that those that despise religion , shall be lightly esteemed . there are some vices that in their own nature and apparent consequences root up families , make nations effeminate , and poor-spirited , and render them an easy prey to the bold invader : as was evident in the declining times of the roman empire , declining in vertue as well as power , and declining in power , because they declined in vertue . but there are other sins that have as bearing an influence in the judgments that befal a nation , and especially a nation in covenant with god , as a church , that deprives them of their best defence , the protection of god , and exposes them to the worst of dangers ; and these sins are a profane contempt or neglect of things sacred . of which we need seek no further for an evidence than the times we are upon , viz. of the judges ; insomuch , that during the years of that administration , there were of those years , years of oppression ; the reason of which is all along ascribed to their apostacy from the true religion ; and that therefore god strengthned their adversaries , and deliver'd and sold them into their hands . and if we descend lower , and consider the example set before us in this chapter , we have one instance beyond all exception , in the family of eli ; whose sons hophni and phineas were both slain in one day , the ark taken , and thereupon shiloh , which had been the place of its residence for years , ( if not more ) left desolate . a case so remarkable , that in as degenerate an age , when they placed as much confidence in the temple , as these did in the ark , they are sent to this monument of god's just indignation for their confutation . jer. . , . go ye now unto my place which was in shiloh , where i set my name at the first , and see what i did to it for the wickedness of my people israel . and this we find to be the usual method of divine providence throughout the book of god : that whilst religion was maintained , and the hands of moses held up , the jews prevailed against the amalekites , and prosper'd whithersoever they went : but if they fell , and religion declined , that contempt gave force and success to the stratagems and combinations of their enemies . then god will forsake his own tabernacle , and deliver up his strength into the hands of their enemies , that he may make them sensible , that his justice and his word are greater than the ark , which was to be worshipped for his sake ; as josephus expresseth it . so that in fine , if we would make a just calculation of what is like to be the fate of a people , whether to the better or the worse , to the success or disappointment , the safety or ruin of a nation , we need not have recourse to the stars , and the vain pretences of a delusive art : but we may go no farther than to the state of it as to religion and vertue on the one hand , or vice and impiety on the other ; and then without the spirit of prophecy we may come to a point , and foretel how it shall be with them in the latter end . and this is a subject fit for the serious consideration of a people , and especially at such a time as this , when we are assembled together before almighty god , to implore his blessing upon the publick counsels and proceedings , upon which the good of this nation , and the fate of the western part of europe more especially , doth depend . and this will lead us to the second general , which is ii. to consider the proposition in the text , with relation to the context ; and to the matter of fact it is subjoyned to . we have a remarkable instance of this before us in eli , who was ( as aforesaid ) as well a judge as a priest , and established in both capacities ; that by this conjunction of two of the highest offices in himself , he might be in a capacity of recovering the pristine honour of religion and the nation ; which for a long time had been in a very declining state , and by the untimely fall of sampson , eli's immediate predecessor ( as may be conceived ) little less ▪ than desperate , in human appearance . eli being thus invested with the supreme power and authority , had an opportunity for doing the greatest good , for reforming matters in church and state , and setling them upon a sure and lasting foundation . in which , how happily soever he succeeded for a time , and so as to have the former part of the text verified in him , them that honour me , i will honour ; yet afterwards there followed so great disorders , through the evil practices of his sons , and his indulgence to them , that drew upon him as severe a train of judgments , according to the threatning of the prophet elkanah ( as the jews say ) as ever a person or a family felt and suffer'd ; to the confirming the latter part of the text in the highest sense of it , those that despise me , shall be lightly esteemed , that is ( according to the usual meiosis in scripture , and as we are taught by the event ) shall be most severely punished . now these things were our ensamples , and are written for our admonition : for the history of scripture is a practical comment upon divine providence ; and what was in its design composed for the use of all future ages , that posterity might by the numerous examples of all kinds as to good or evil , be encouraged as to the one , and cautioned against the other . and to such as these is our text more especially to be applied ; to such a people , and such persons , whom god by his signal providence hath been propitious to above the common sort and case of mankind . eli had much to answer for , because more might justly be expected from him by reason of the advantages he was superior to many others in : that eli , whom god had thus chosen to his service , and had thus dignified beyond any other of his successors ; as was also the nation he was of , beyond any people in the world. and to what doth all this serve , but to teach persons of eminence for their quality or office , for their interest , power and authority , what use they should make of it ? that so they whom god hath honoured in advancing them to such a degree of superiority , may not as the degenerate sons of eli , make themselves vile and contemptible : that when god has made them to be stars in the firmament of heaven , to give light , and shed their benevolent influence upon the earth , they should in the issue prove no other than meteors , shewn to the world for a time , but all o' th' sudden expire without any benefit to mankind . can we think that no more is expected from us , whom god hath endued with the light of reason , and fitted for service in the station and condition we are , than from the horse and the mule that have no understanding ; and that we have answer'd the end of our beings , if we spend our days in a torpid and unprofitable sloth , or in such things as the bruits can do as well as we ? and can such persons whom god hath blessed with gifts and talents above others , or rais'd by his providence to a state of eminence , think that there is no more required of them , in their publick station , than if they drowzed away their time in some obscure corner , alike unknown , and unprofitable to the world ? no surely ; but as we ought often to reflect upon our selves , and to consider how we that are reasonable creatures , and whom god hath made vessels to honour , may employ our talents to the glory of our creator , suitable to the dignity of our nature , and to high and nobler purposes than those creatures that are made vessels to dishonour : so ought those , who out of the common mass of mankind are exalted above others , to answer the dignity of their station , and to consult how they may demean themselves worthy of that honour their creator hath thought fit to place such a distinguishing character upon . our saviour saith , unto whomsoever much is given , of him shall be much required ; and to whom men have committed much , of him they will ask the more : luke . . and especially may this be expected from those that are the representatives of a people , and that are concerned in making those laws for the promoting of religion and the honour of god , by which they themselves , as well as the community , are to be governed . how doth it become such to establish the authority of those sanctions by their example , and not to take that undue liberty to themselves , which they , in the laws they make , deny to others ? how doth it become them to be the support of religion , to stand up in the defence of it , to revive its drooping spirits , and to make that by their authority as sacred as the holy mount , under the law , which no man should dare to break in upon and violate ! here is a cause not only worthy of their appearance and their zeal , but what also is at this time necessary , when the very foundation of religion is attempted ; and that which all the world has so much wanted , and desired where it was not , i mean revelation , is exposed ; and that which we all venture our salvation upon , the christian institution , the sacrifice and the mediation of our blessed saviour , is openly declared to be derogatory to the perfections of almighty god , and injurious to men. we are here a christian assembly met together in the fear of god , and with a hope in his mercy through jesus christ ; and it is an happy opportunity offer'd to us by the supreme authority of the nation , for imploring the divine blessing upon the publick councels and affairs ; by which we declare to the world what honour we bear to almighty god , what dependance we have upon him , and do professedly put our selves under his protection : and how can this better be expressed by the patriots of our countrey , than by taking his religion into theirs , by bearing as great a regard to , and being as much concerned for the honour and just rights of it , as for their own ? if this be the event of this solemn appearance , and shall be the compass by which they principally steer in their consultations and proceedings ; as they will therein honour god , so he for their so doing will honour them , and make them a publick blessing to the nation ; and the nation as jerusalem , a praise in the earth , isa . . . which god of his mercy grant for the sake of jesus christ our only mediator . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e v. ezra . . . chap. . . chron. . . chap. . v. . sam. . , . chap. . . chap. . . v. . vers . . act. . . judg. . . . . . . . . . psal . . . psal . . . de bell. l. . c. . rom. . . cor. . . a sermon preached upon the fifth of november, . by a protestant divine williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached upon the fifth of november, . by a protestant divine williams, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for dorman newman, at the kings-arms in the poultry, london : . a protestant divine = john williams. reproduction of the original in the trinity college library, cambridge university. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- o.t. -- psalms lxxxiii, -- sermons -- early works to . sermons, english -- th century. gunpowder plot, -- sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached upon the fifth of november , . by a protestant divine . london : printed for dorman newman , at the kings-arms in the poultry , . psal. lxxxiii . , . they have taken crafty counsel against thy people , and consulted against thy hidden ones : they have said , come , and let us cut them off from being a nation , that the name of israel be no more in remembrance . this psalm may either refer to some particular time , when the land of israel had war with , and was invaded by the edomites , ismaelites , and the other nations spoken of here , ver . , , ; as it was in the reign of david , sam. . , &c. and jehosaphat , chron. . , . or else it may be applied to the condition of the jews with respect to the several enemies which they had from time to time , to the captivity . at which time especially we find the amonites and moabites , the edomites and philistins , in ezek. , with those of tyre , chap. , to have been sworn enemies to the welfare of israel , and to have rejoiced in the destruction and captivity of that people . upon which of these occasions this psalm was penned , it is not so fit to determine , as it is to observe the lively representation that is here made of the enmity which the wicked do bear to the church and people of god ; and of the need which the church hath of , and of the protection it finds by the divine providence . the jews were a typical people , an emblem of what the church was like to be , and of what it was like to meet with in future ages . they were seldom or never without enemies , and those enemies never without mischievous designs , which they laid with great cunning , and prosecuted with all their might ; but they were also never without a defence , and with which they were always safe . the enemies might advise and conspire , confederate , assemble and joyn together ; they might proceed , and promise themselves success in their design ; but as long as israel was the church of god , it was safe : and as till it needed persecution , it should be preserved from it ; so till it deserved it , should never be forsaken . this is the account which the psalmist gives of the state of that church with respect to its enemies that sought to destroy it , and with respect to god , who took care to preserve it . in the words we have , . an evil design laid and contrived , which was to destroy the people of god ; they have taken counsel against thy people , and consulted against thy hidden ones . . their confederacy in this design ; they have said , come , and let us cut them off . so again , vers . , they have consulted together with one consent : they are confederate against thee . . the success which they promised themselves in it ; come , and let us cut them off ; as if it was what they could as soon do as say ; what they could not be opposed or prevented in . accordingly i shall shew , . that the wicked do bear an enmity to the church of god , and seek the destruction of it . where i shall consider whence that doth proceed . . in what ways they do shew this enmity , and what course they take to afflict and destroy the church . . the confidence which they have of success . . by way of supplement , i shall shew by what ways their designs may be prevented , and their enterprizes overthrown . first , i shall consider the enmity which the wicked bear to the church of god , and from whence that doth proceed . when we consider what the church of god is , and of what excellent persons its family doth consist , and by what excellent rules it is ordered , we may think it as safe from all outward violence , as from any inward distemper ; and that it should not find any enemies , since it doth not by any just invitations make them . from whence come wars and fightings among you ? come they not hence , even of your lusts that war in your members ? ye lust and have not : ye kill and desire to have . james . . ● . when men do greedily desire what another doth possess , and use violence to thrust him out of his right that they themselves may enjoy it : when they do envy the good of others , and do maliciously endeavour to supplant them in it : when they do seek to revenge themselves upon those that have done them a real injury , or that have prevented them from doing it to another ; they grow quarrelsom and contentious , and fill the world with divisions and strifes , hatred and variance , blood and slaughter . but now when men are meek and peaceable , when they are not forward to do any wrong to others , and backward to resent what they receive from them ; one would think that they are as secure from receiving , as they are above the design of doing any hurt ; as the apostle saith , pet. . , who will harm you if ye be followers of that which is good ? this is indeed often the reward of meekness , and modesty , of integrity and faithfulness , of justice and honesty , of goodness and piety , that it gains the good will and the good word of others , and procures peace and safety to those that practice it . but yet it is no rare thing for the best of men , and the best religion in the world to meet with fierce oppositions and sharp persecutions . an instance of which is the people of israel , who were continually practised upon , invaded and assaulted by those that were their neighbours . we find that no tie or obligation could secure them against , or engage others to be for them , but that they watched and took all advantages to surprize , to spoil and to ruin them . some of these nations spoken of in this psalm , had more reason to be their friends than their enemies . the ishmaelites descended directly from abraham , and the hagarens are supposed to be his posterity also by keturah , whom some think to have been hagar that he took again after sarah's death . the moabites and ammonites were the off-spring of lot. the edomites sprung from esau the brother of jacob : and which three last , besides this relation by blood , had a particular reason to forbear all acts of hostility , as they were not disturbed by the israelites when they passed by them into canaan , deut. . , . the rest of them were such whom israel did not disturb or invade , unless when invaded , contenting themselves with what was given them by the decree , and order , and appointment of god. but it is not always quietness and innocency that are a sufficient protection ; even that , when nothing else can be the foundation of a quarrel , shall serve to make it . so that the church may be persecuted without fault , and may fare ill , not because it is worse , but better than those it receives injury from : and that will appear if we consider from whence this doth proceed . . this proceeds from the craft and policy , the malice and spite of the devil , who being a competitor with god for dominion in the world , and whose whole design it is to defeat him in the good that he would do for mankind , doth perpetually labour to put a stop to whatever may be offered toward the delivering of the souls of men out of his snare . how doth he triumph in being the god of this world , and in the success that he hath upon poor and miserable mortals ; most of whom he hath in all ages made his tributaries and vassals ; and by whom he was so generally served and obeyed , that it was but in a spot of the earth that god was truly worshipped , a country not above miles in length , and in breadth . so psal . . , , he sheweth his word unto jacob : his statutes and his judgments unto israel . he hath not dealt so with any nation , and as for his judgments they have not known them . whatever good men might be scattered through the world , and however religion might be preserved in some particular families and tribes of other nations , ( as it was in that of job and his friends ) yet there was no intire nation that kept up the religion of the only true god , besides that of the jews . when mankind had basely degenerated , and the state of the world grew worse and worse , god chose out the people of israel for his peculiar service ; and as for other ends , so to be an instrument of winning others over to the same practice . this people he separated from the rest of the world ; and by his dealings with them , in dividing the seas , piercing the rocks , destroying the nations for them , and preserving them when threatned with the greatest dangers , so that no violence could hurt them , nor power disposses them , nor any thing destroy them but their sins ; by these and the like ways he made them conspicuous to the nations far and near , and pu● such upon enquiring whence all this should proceed ▪ and so at length they might be won to own the same god , and put themselves under his protection . so deut. . , keep therefore and do them [ my statutes ] for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of all the nations , which shall hear all these statutes , and say , surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people . so vers . . , . and chap. . , . and when god had so visibly separated a people to himself from all the world , and that by such eminent tokens of his presence with them , he had made them and himself known to the world , it was no wonder that the devil set himself with all his might to prevent this growing-danger that threatned his kingdom , and to provide that his dominions which he had kept hitherto intire to himself , might not be invaded ; and what he had usurped might not be wrested out of his hands ; nothing should in such a case be wanting on his part that either his wit could invent , or his power perform ; and so without doubt he did stir up enemies to assault , vex and destroy them . and he that did thus bestir himself in the first settlement of a national church , cannot be thought to have forgot himself or to neglect his cause so far , as not to use an industry great and sufficient in proportion to the danger that was approaching ; when no less a design was set on foot than of bringing the whole world into the same condition , and making al● mankind to adore the king of kings , and lord of lords in the same way . when this design was laid , and such a power appeared in its behalf , as threw him out of his empire in a shameful way , and tore up the foundations of it ; we may suppose that he would bend all his forces that way , and that all his crew would take up arms to oppose whatever was like to procure the total overthrow of that empire he had so long injoyed . then the gates of hell , all the power and policy of it , would combine against the church which christ established so much to the prejudice of the devils dominion . it 's said revel . . , . wo to the inhabiters of the earth , and of the sea : for the devil is come down unto you , having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time . and when the dragon saw that he was castout unto the earth , he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man-child . he that prided himself before in the extent of his dominions and numbers of his subjects , being deprived of that supremacy , breaks forth into the greatest rage against all the deserters of his government , and seeks to destroy those whom he could not retain and keep firm to him . and this is one cause why the church of god meets with opposition and persecution , as the devil is concerned in the quarrel , and doth instigate bad men to manage and to carry it on . secondly , it proceeds from the restless tempe●… of wicked men , whose minds are set upon mischief and that do catch at all opportunities for it . it is said of such , prov. . , that their feet run to evil , and make haste to shed blood . and chap. . , . they sleep not except they have done mischief : and their sleep is taken away unless they cause some to fall . for they eat the bread of wickedness , and drink the wine of violence . wherefore they are fitly compared to the troubled sea , when it cannot rest , whose waters cast up mire and dirt . isaiah . . when sin hath erected its empire , and come to be predominant , it then becomes an interest ; and the heart of man which of it self is perpetually in motion , will then , being made a party , move strongly in its desires and designs that way which by such a depraved temper it is directed to . it 's always then prepared for action ; and as it is habitually disposed , so being awakened by the least occasion , it presently is all on fire , and engages in the quarrel . it will then appear in the cause of sin , and fight its battels ; and whatever doth obstruct and oppose it , shall be looked upon and dealt with as an enemy . this doth all sin more or less wherever it is . but there are some sinners that from their own natural temper , or their manner of life , are more unquiet than others , and whom it 's necessary for the peace and safety of the world , to find out some employment for ( as they say it is for a spirit when it is raised by the power of charms and witchcraft ) and to watch over them , or else they will be perpetually hatching and doing of mischief . such especially are they that ●ive in cloysters and frieries , that having no set and fixed employments to take up their minds , are listning to all news , greedy of understanding the state of affairs , prying into every ones concerns , busying themselves in finding out what others think , design , or do : and therefore it is that there is no part of their office which they are so diligent in , and expert at , as that of hearing confessions ; this they can abide by all the day , when they have thereby ▪ an opportunity of diving into the hearts , and drawing out the secrets of others ; of understanding the tempers of persons , the state of families , towns , and kingdoms . these are very dangerous persons wherever they do reside . it 's such as these that will not suffer princes or people to be quiet ( where they are admitted and indulged ) but are perpetually instigating them , and putting them forward upon dangerous enterprizes . these , that pretend to be under an obligation not to divulge the secrets of confession ( although a prince , and parliament , and thousands of people suffer by the concealment of it , as it had likely to have proved in the gunpowder-treason ) make their advantage of these to breed ill blood , to foster and promote jealousies and contentions betwixt prince and people , betwixt nation and nation , that their cause may be promoted by it , and by this means others may be made unable to hurt them , or defend themselves . it 's but fit therefore , since such have chosen the life of a cloyster , that they should be confined to it , or else they are enough to set all the world on fire , and to draw men into perpetual quarrels and contentions . these are they that keep the church from being quiet , and christians from the practice of those duties that tend to the peace , the order , and the security of it . . it proceeds from the interest of wicked men , as it is vers . . they have consulted against thy hidden ones , or as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred psalm . . thy treasures . so vers . . they say , let us take to our selves the houses [ or ornaments ] of god in possession . the riches of the temple , amongst other things , did , it seems , invite their avarice . and this is frequently a reason of the enmity of such . the church may either have somewhat which they want ; or else if it should prevail , deprive them of somewhat which they have , and so gives therefore sufficient ground of a quarrel . the apostle tells us of some men , whose god is their belly , and that mind earthly things , phil. . . and of others , whose gain is godliness , tim. . , that are no further for religion than religion is for them , and make use of that sacred name to obtain or secure their secular interest ; and if this be opposed , hell it self shall be moved , and all that power and policy can do , imployed to protect it . religion it self shall be abandoned , and the church of god harassed and persecuted , if they make against it . this is one great reason of the quarrel betwixt us and the church of rome , and of all those attemps made upon us by a foreign power . england is a fruitful country , and the people , of their own temper , inclined to devotion ; and it was a plentiful harvest which some men reaped here in former times from peter-pence , and first-fruits , and pensions , and appeals , and dispensations , and indulgences , and jubilees , and pilgrimages ; they were goodly days when there were frequent returns in these kinds from hence to rome : but now that there is a great gulph fixed , by laws and statutes and penalties , betwixt us and them , so that they which would pass from hence to them cannot ; neither can they pass to us , that would come from thence about such affairs without danger , whilst those laws are in being , and are put in execution ; their bank is sunk , and they would fain be returning to their old quarter . there are abbies , and monastries , frieries and nunneries , with noble mannors and large demesnes ; there are benefices and colledges which they thirst after . these are the souls that they so dearly prize and venture so hard to rescue out of the fire ; these are the proselytes which they above all labour to gain : and because they are still kept out , what broils and stirs do they make ? what do they not threaten and endeavour ? and besides , there is danger , lest if they invade not us , that we should grow upon them , and other people begin to be wise as well as ours . such also may come to see that religion consists not in the visiting of a church , or looking devoutly upon a relique , or kissing a piece of wood , or bowing to an image , or crossing the breast , or in singring of beads , or saying prayers by tale , or being clad with the robe of st. francis , or walking barefoot , or in being all night locked up in a cloyster , or in fasting by eating of fish , or in lighting up of tapers , and making processions , and a thousand of the like apish and fantastical ceremonies ; nay , they might come to understand , that the pope is not christs vicar , nor his holiness infallible ; nor that he hath power to deliver souls out of purgatory ; and what is more , that there is no such place as purgatory , and so no need of praying for the dead , nor of money to purchase those prayers . this is a great reason why our religion in the church of england , which is a reformation of those corrupt errors and practices that are crept into the church of rome , is so much disliked and inveighed against by the popish faction . for what would rome signify if it had no supremacy over other churches ? what appeals would be made thither ? what directions , commands and grants would be expected thence , if each had as much authority within it self , as that now claims over all ? if the rest of the apostles had authority equal with st. peter ; if all their successours in the several parts of the world , were of the same degree , and none had superiority over the rest ; if the church of ephesus where st. john was , or that of jerusalem where st. james did preside , had as much priviledge as that of rome , then she might sit as a widow in respect of what for these last ages she hath been , and be bereaved of all that pomp and greatness , that wealth and magnificence that she hath abounded in . again , if there be no infallibility amongst them , if their popes have mistaken in point of faith , and their decrees have been erroneous ; if their councils have miscarried in their determinations ; if tradition hath failed in what they pretend to be conveighed down by it ; if their church , that is , be no better than others ; and whatever it pretends to , can really claim no better infallibility ; then what need will there be of being solicitous and inquisitive about what she shall require or determine ? what need any one take a long journey thither , when he may with greater ease and as much certainty have his case resolved at home ? could that church do no more than others , and had it no such thing as a treasure of merits and superarogaions , no publick and general stock from whence such may be relieved as having made little conscience of religion whilst they lived , have no other claim to the priviledges of it when they come to dye ; where would be the profit that doth daily accrue to it by the issuing out of indulgences ? were there nothing in the reliques that are shewed by them , and no more in that blood of christ which they expose to the view and veneration of the people , than that of a duck ( as my lord herbert in his history of henry the th . saith it was found to be ) were there no more in the stairs of pilate which the people with great devotion do climb up at rome , and expect great indulgences for , than in those of an ordinary church , who would make such tedious pilgrimages thither ? if purgatory be yet a place to be discovered ; and what there is not so much proof of , as for a world in the moon ; if the proof of it depends upon legends and apparitions , &c. what will become of the dirges and prayers offered for the dead , and of the priests whose incomes much depend upon it ? if their priests can do no more than ours , and to the eye and experience of the world , make no more alteration upon the bread and the wine consecrated by them , than what is consecrated by us ; that after all their ceremony and a do about it , it is no other than what it was before , is of no other colour or tast , is of no more weight , and takes up no more room than before ; what will become of the veneration that the priest obtains , and the profit that he makes by it ? if they can forgive sins upon no other terms than we , and repentance and amendment of life must be the condition of it , what becomes of all their dispensations , pardons , penances and indulgences ? if these and the like things fail , and that they are in the same condition with other churches , a great part of their gain and dominion is lost . and it is no wonder that they exclaim against us , that are so bold as to question and deny what they would in these and the like particulars impose upon the christian world . they do then with as great reason set themselves against us , as demetrius and the crafts-men did oppose st. paul and his associates , acts . , sirs , ye know that by this craft we have our wealth . this , this is a case puts them hard to it , and therefore they are concerned , nearly concerned to see that this heresie spreads no further , and to root it up wherever it hath already prevailed . . it may proceed from the excellency of a church , when it doth outshine them in the best and truest perfections , and that true goodness and substantial piety is there taught and practised . when it is not taken up with little things , with imageries and fantastical appearances , but that the religion it owns is what tends to make men better , and that they are made by it not so much proselytes to a particular way , as to vertue and christianity . give me a religion that works this way , that we may lay hold upon , that gives such rules and directions as will abide the examination , and last throughout ages , and are of good use to the world . there are some principles which run all into air , and carry you away till you know not where you are ; that hoise a man above ground , and make him full of self-conceit ; and which he is so mighty fond of , that all that are not as fanciful as himself , shall be accounted hereticks and what not . this is too true of some amongst our selves , and it is also as true of the romish church , that talk of infallibility , infallibility , and yet the popes and their own councils have as grosly mistaken , as those that never pretend to it ; that talk of absolution and indulgence , and yet mens sins are no otherwise forgiven than upon the terms of the gospel , such as faith , repentance and new obedience ( as the soberer of themselves acknowledge ) ; that tell of christ's being bodily present at the sacrament , flesh and blood as much as our selves , and yet he is no otherwise to be seen than by our plain way of faith , unless they take fancy for another . these and the like notions are full of wind , and make their religion look big and bulky , but it s either all art , and not nature ; or , what is worse , the distemper and not the constitution of it : it 's a religion so far of their own making , and which is made to serve an interest . but now if a church is plain in its doctrine , grave in its directions , substantial in its principles , and what drive at present practice ( as these of ours do ) , it shall be struck at by these kind of hectors ; and if they could , banished out of the world . . it may proceed from the disposal of divine providence , that for the punishing of the sins of a church , doth not only suffer others to afflict her , but turn their displeasure that way . when the heart is of it self bent upon mischief , and full fraught with evil and pernicious inclinations and designs , god may make use of that temper for the serving of his own providence , and may direct it as he pleaseth without being guilty of the sin of it . so psal . . , he turned their heart to hate his people , to deal subtilly with his servants . their heart before was corrupt and mischievous , and he made use of it for the serving of his own design ; he doth not infuse this into such , or necessitate them by any absolute decree or act of his own to be ambitious , or proud , or covetous , or cruel , but it is what he finds ; and the direction of it to such objects , doth no more make him the author of it , than that person that divides and directs the stream , can be the maker of it . it is what he finds to his hands , and what he doth only order and dispose of . and thus much is intimated in the phrase used in scripture of stirring up an adversary . god by his disposal ordering and directing the inclinations of men that were before in the heart , according as time and occasion requireth . this is plain in what is said , kings . , the lord stirred up an adversary unto solomon , hadad the edomite , he was of the kings seed in edom. hadad being beaten out of his country by david , and forced to take shelter under the king of egypt , did doubtless wait an opportunity of returning , and yet notwithstanding , we had nothing of any attempts made by him that way till the latter end of solomon ( to whom god had promised a peaceable reign , as long as he continued to serve him ) when his wives had turned away his heart after other gods , vers . . and then hadad is said to have desired pharoah's leave to depart , vers . . god then making use of the setled inclinations of his mind , in punishment to solomon for his apostacy . so god is said to send the assyrian , isa . ● . , . his pride and vain glory , were what did engage him to invade the dominions of others , vers . . , it is in his heart to destroy , and cut off nations not a few . for he saith , are not my princes altogether kings ? and god served himself of this temper of his , and turned him upon the people of gods wrath , as the children of israel are there called . so he is said to bring nebuchadnezzar against them , jer. . . so that a church and people may come thus to suffer through gods wise and powerful ordination , as they by their sins have provoked him to anger ; and when it hath done this work , and served this end , and that by it they are brought to repentance , the same hand that brought it on will carry it off . . i shall proceed to the second general , which is to observe the ways in which they shew this enmity , or the course which they take for the destruction of the church ; and that is , deep consultation and joynt endeavour , they take crafty counsel , and are confederate . and this is the most likely way to accomplish a design , when it is cunningly contrived , and closely prosecuted . for all the action in the world , without good consultation , may be baffled and disappointed ; and the shrewdest consultation without vigorous action will come to nothing ; but when both these do meet , it hath the fairest hopes of success . and this the adversaries of the church are not wanting in , who do too often surmount in both , those that have the best cause , and whose greatest interest it is to defend it . but there are particular ways which such do take . as , . slandering their adversaries , and raising false reports of them . they are then dealt with as the primitive christians were by their persecutors , who were dressed up in the skins of such creatures as would the more exasperate and invite the wild beasts to which they were exposed , to tear and devour them ; they shall be represented as hypocrites and deceivers , as hereticks and infidels , as pernicious and dangerous . so it was with the christians of old , who were said to be atheists and contemners of all religion , and guilty of the foulest crimes , as sacriledge , sedition , incest and murder ; and it is no wonder when thus represented , that some of the best of the heathenish emperers made laws and edicts against them , and followed them with severe persecutions , as trajan , adrian , and antoninus , till they were made to understand better by their apologists . and so it happens often in the world , that religion for want of being understood , and the religious for want of being truly known , are evil intreated by them that mean well . but as such by mistake and misreport may become enemies to what is good , thinking it to be evil ; so bad men are willing to have it so , and do therefore take all occasions to asperse religion , that they may expose that and those that are better than themselves to obloquy and reproach ; for by how much the more they can cast dirt upon them , by so much the more do they think themselves vindicated . and this is no small artifice of the church of rome , in the foul dealing which they shew to those that will not own its authority , and submit to its unlimited jurisdiction ; they will take hell it self for calumnies , and say any thing that will serve to disgrace them . they will dress them up as the poor people that are condemned for heresie by the inquisition , in sanbenito's and coats painted over with owls and devils , to make them ridiculous or worse , and to take the people off from condoling their misfortune ; they will describe their adversaries in characters of blood and soot , and what not , to set the people on with fury , and render them implacable . thus we find they did by luther , whom they will needs have to dye , just when he had entertained his friends with merry conceits , and had been entertained at a plentiful supper , and that immediately his soul was carried away by devils ; when the truth is , that after he had been long troubled with a pain in his breast , and was brought by it under great weakness , he was in continual expectation of death ; ( though he ceased not to preach as he had any intermission ) and the night that he died , though weak , yet set down with his friends , discoursing about the state in heaven , and whether we shall then know one another ; and then retiring , according to his custom , to private prayer , he found that his pain increased ; and perceiving , after some hours , that his end drew near , he exhorted his friends , and declared his perseverance in the faith ; and praying with great fervency , concluded that and his life together , with , father into thy hands i commit my spirit ; thou hast redeemed me , o god of truth . so they tell us that calvin was given to gluttony and epicurism , and was branded for sodomy at noviodunum , where he was born ; whereas he was a man of great abstinence , never eating any thing for ten years before his death till evening ; and is cleared of the latter by jacob le vasseur dean of noviodunum , in his book which he published of the annals of that church in . thus would they make our religion and all that profess it , look miscreantly in the eyes of the world , that they might fall on us without mercy , and worry us with some reputation . . by dividing the church , and setting one part of it against the other . it 's the policy of the church of rome , that though they have more and greater divisions amongst them , as about the seat of infallibility it self ( which is a fundamental principle with them ) than we , yet that there is a superiour power to crush them ; and though they cannot be reconciled and put to an end , yet that that puts them to silence , and so they are kept from doing mischief . but where persons have a free liberty , and few or no restraints laid upon them , they are tempted to break into parties , and those parties are apt to break one against the other , by which means they are often made a prey to the common adversary . and i pray god this be not the event of this state with us . i am sure there hath not been wanting endeavour on their part to effect it ; endeavour i say , to make and aggravate and perpetuate differences , that so all might lie at their mercy . how do they sort with all persons , strike into all societies , take upon themselves the guise of all parties , that they may bring each to war against other , and fight the battels of rome whilst they fight one with the other , and all may fall a sacrifice to its fury . . by downright force : that when other means do fail , or that they are weary of expecting what will be the issue of them , they do without more ado , run to their arms , and bring the cause to a decision in open field . in open field , say i , i wish that were all ; nay they will assassinate and massacre , blow up or burn , or do any thing that either treachery or cruelty can teach them . this is too true a character of the church of rome , that ever since it first drew the sword in the time of hildebrand , never knew what it was to sheath it again , but that hath prosecuted it's cause by force of arms to this day . it 's that which hath claimed a jurisdiction over princes , and a power to depose and dethrone them . it 's that which hath disposed of their kingdoms , and given subjects authority to rebel against them . it 's that which hath raised armies , and animated princes to head them against the laws of nations . it 's to that we are beholding for , when with the popes blessing , no less than a fleet of ships , with souldiers on board , besides seamen , was sent to invade england , and despoil queen elizabeth of her crown and kingdom . but what is all this to their bloody conspiracies ! an army cannot move without giving an alarm , it awakens others , and puts them upon their guard ; but when the malice walks like the pestilence in darkness , and is disguised either with the shews of friendship and peace , or else lies out of all discovery , it 's far more dangerous . this makes the church or people against whom it is designed , more secure ; and the enemy more confident of success . which brings to the fourth general . . here is the confidence that they have of success , and that may proceed from the review which they take of their own policy and strength , and from the observation which they make of the weakness of their adversaries ; weak perhaps of themselves , weaker perhaps with their divisions ; weak because they are secure , and not aware of an assault ; and weak because they have made no provision against it . confident again they may be of success because the design lies out of sight , and what 's not easily discovered , though they are never so inquisitive ; when it lies under ground in vaults or cellars , as it was in the gunpowder-treason ; or what is so well banded together , that it cannot be well prevented , though never so watchful , as that in . confident again they may be of success ; because it is masked and disguised , that it 's carried on whilst they pretend peace , friendship , and alliance . so was the parisian massacre , anno , when under the pretence of great friendship , upon the marriage betwixt the king of navar and margaret sister to the king of france , the protestants in great numbers were drawn into the city , and then above of them barbarously murdered . so it was in , when a peace was propounded , and commissioners on both sides sent to treat about it , with great and solemn protestations on the prince of parma's side that no invasion was intended , and yet within a few days after this , the invincible ( as it was called ) armado set forth from spain . so again in , there were sent from the pope orders to forbid conspiracies against the government , whilst at the same time the gunpowder-treason was not without his privity in agitation . whilst these and the like arts are used , it is no wonder that they promise themselves good assurance of carrying the day , and that in good time they shall prevail over them that they have thus far blinded and infatuated . but let not him that girdeth on his harness , boast himself , as he that putteth it off ; nor talk too confidently of success , till he is sure of it . for in this case there is a promise of god that is surer than all the counsels and power of men , which is , that the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church ; and as god will always have a church in the world , do men or devils what they can ; so also a particular church shall reap the benefit of that promise , if they take the course pointed to in this psalm , which brings to the fourth general . . the course by which the church and people of god may and shall be secured ; intimated here , vers . , keep not thou silence , o god , hold not thy peace , and be not still , o god ; which is fervent prayer to god , and intire dependence upon him : in sum , the behaving themselves as those that are his servants ; for then god will be their friend , and their patron , and they will be as secure notwithstanding the power of the enemy , as if they had no enemy to encounter , or that enemy had no power to assault them . then they shall find that verefied , which is said , isa . . , , associate your selves , o ye people , and ye shall be broken in pieces , and give ear all ye of far countreys : gird your selves , and ye shall be broken in pieces : gird your selves , and ye shall be broken in pieces : take counsel together , and it shall come to naught : speak the word , and it shall not stand : for god is with us . let us then betake our selves to this course , and engage the divine protection by our importunate prayers to god , and a due conformity to his commands , that we make good our profession by a suitable practice , and as much exceed our adversaries in the life and spirit of our religion , as we do in the purity and principles of it ; and then we shall find , that though they may dig deep , their counsel shall be brought to light ; though they combine together , they shall be broken ; though they summon up all their force they shall be defeated , and we shall then be able to say with the psalmist , psal . . , the lord is on my side , i will not fear what man can do unto me . thus our ancestors were delivered . our fathers trusted in thee : they trusted , and thou didst deliver them : they cryed unto thee , and were delivered : they trusted in thee , and were not confounded . and to encourage you hereunto , i shall give you a brief account of gods great mercy to them and this church , in the deliverance which we are this day met to commemorate , and that i shall do in the order of the text. their design was to root out the protestant religion ; a religion that hath the scriptures , and the practice of the primitive church to defend it ; a religion planted amongst us , with peace , and by authority ; that made not its way by blood and slaughter , by rebellion and disobedience ; that was setled without any injury to the prince , or prejudice to the people , and what did hugely tend to the security of both : a religion that dealt candidly and fairly with those that were against it , and was never an enemy to them , till they became an enemy to it ; first , by receiving and owning the bull of pope pius quintus , that meant no less than to depose the queen , and turn her out of her throne , and then practising accordingly . a religion , that when in its own defence it had laws against such , yet rarely put them into execution ; and that notwithstanding which , many of them held offices , and all their estates , unless forfeired by some particular treason . this religion which hath so much to say for it self , and god hath so much honour , and we our comfort and salvation by ; nay , this religion which they lived so safely under , did they seek to subvert . and that in a way so barbarous , that it wants both parallel and defence , and which the boldest of that way cannot hear of without ▪ blushing ; and howsoever they would have been in the success of it , cannot find any thing to excuse . to murder a king in their way , was no new case ; so fell frederick the second , and henry the seventh , emperors ; so fell our king john , so fell also henry the third and fourth of france . to butcher a people ; and without respect to order , age , or sex , to fall upon them , was what the albigenses felt of old , and those of france in the massacre at merindol , anno . and at paris before spoken of , had experience of . but when prince , parliament , and people were to be assembled , without any regard to what they were , to blow them up all at once with gun-powder , and scatter the limbs of or persons that must then have necessarily perished by that practice , was what we are yet to find a name for , and what treason and murder are too soft words to express . and this was not the act of some rash and inconsiderate person , but what many confederated together in ; not a design all on a sudden thought of , and as suddenly embraced , but what had been considered and reviewed , and advised upon ; what flanders and rome had been consulted about , as the transactions of baldwin , owen , and baynham do sufficiently witness . it was what they had spent much time and many thoughts upon , and what they therefore did promise themselves success in . and success they found , for they quickly met with an house fit for their purpose , adjoyning to that of the parliament ; there they attempted to make a myne fit for the receiving the stowage which they had provided . but the time of the parliament's sitting came on too fast , they wanted hands , and their own hands wanted exercise in such hard labour to bring this to perfection ; and here again success waited upon them , and fortune ( which they call'd providence ) seemed to be of their party ; for the parliament was adjourned from february to november ; and they in the mean while also met with a vault which they soon hired , and was more convenient for their purpose , as what was already sitted for them , and nearer to the place of the parliaments convention . the time now grew near , and they are big with expectation ; the train was laid for their design in the country as well as here , and in all parts they were ripe for action . but that which went on for so long a time as smoothly as their hearts could wish , was all on a sudden interrupted . for ten days before ( which was the same time that the conspirators appointed to assemble ) one of them doubtless by the over-ruling providence of god , more tender-hearted than the rest , wrote a letter to the lord monteagle to disswade him from being present the first day of the session . a letter in the reasoning of it very obscure ; but what by the fortunate interpretation of the king was found to signifie much , and proved the happy discoverer of the whole . then as success waited before upon them , so it doth as much in the further discovery , whilst faux is taken without the house ( that if otherwise within , would have blown up , though not the king and parliament , yet thousands with himself ) , and that the conspirators are pursued , and taken in the countrey , before they were known to be guilty of this horrid treason . these and many other particulars might be observed in this action ; but that i shall chuse to refer you for satisfaction to what hath formerly , and of late been published upon that subject , and to the act of parliament , appointed to be read upon this day , which follows . anno tertio jacobi regis . yearly prayers shall be made , for the delivery of the king , &c. from the gunpowder-treason . for as much as almighty god , hath in all ages shewed his power and mercy , in the miraculous and gracious deliverance of his church ; and in the protection of religious kings and states , and that no nation of the earth hath been blessed with greater benefits , than this kingdom now enjoyeth , having the true and free profession of the gospel under our most gracious soveraign lord king james ; the most great , learned , and religious king that ever reigned therein , inriched with a most hopeful and plentiful progeny , proceeding out of his royal loyns , promising continuance of this happiness and profession to all prosterity ; the which many malignant and devilish papists , jesuites , and seminary priests much envying and fearing , conspired most horribly , when the kings most excellent majesty , the queen , the prince , and all the lords spiritual and temporal , and commons should have been assembled in the vpper-house of parliament upon the fifth day of november , in the year of our lord , , suddenly to have blown up the said whole house with gunpowder : an invention so inhumane , barbarous and cruel , as the like was never before heard of , and was , as some of the principal conspirators thereof confess , purposely devised and concluded to be done in the said house . that where sundry necessary and religious laws for preservation of the church and state were made ( which they falsly and slanderously term cruel laws ) and enacted against them and their religion ; both place and persons should be all destroyed and blown up at once , which would have turned to the utter ruin of this whole kingdom , had it not pleased almighty god by inspiring the kings most excellent majesty with a divine spirit to interpret some dark phrases of a letter shewed to his majesty , above and beyond all ordinary constructions , thereby miraculously discovering this hidden treason , not many hours before the appointed time for the execution thereof ; therefore the kings most excellent majesty , the lords spiritual and temporal , and all his majesties faithful and loving subjects , do most justly acknowledge this great and infinite blessing to have proceeded meerly from god , his great mercy , and to his most holy name do ascribe all honour , glory , and praise ; and to the end this unfeigned thankfulness may never be forgotten , but be had in a perpetual remembrance ; that all ages to come may yeild praises to his divine majesty for the same , and have in memory this joyful day of deliverance . be it therefore enacted by the kings most excellent majesty , the lords spiritual and temporal , and the commons in this present parliament assembled , and by the authority of the same , that all and singular ministers in every cathedral , and parish church , or other usual place for common-prayer , within this realm of england and the dominions of the same , shall always upon the fifth day of november say morning prayer , and give unto almighty god thanks for this most happy deliverance , and that all and every person and persons inhabiting within this realm of england , and the dominions of the same , shall always upon that day diligently and faithfully resort to the parish church , or chappel accustomed , or to some usual church or chappel where the said morning prayer , preaching or other service of god shall be used , and then and there to abide orderly and soberly during the time of the said prayers , or preaching , or other service of god there to be used and ministred . and because all and every person may be put in mind of his duty , and be then better prepared to the said holy service , be it enacted by authority aforesaid , that every minister shall give warning to his parishioners publickly in the church at morning-prayer the sunday before every such fifth day of november , for the due observation of the said day , and that after morning prayer , or preaching upon the said fifth day of november , they read publickly , distinctly and plainly this present act. finis . the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the second sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrines and practices of the church of rome, in the point of their praying to the cross. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the second sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrines and practices of the church of rome, in the point of their praying to the cross. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- papist misrepresented and represented. catholic church -- doctrines. catholic church -- liturgy. idols and images -- worship. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the papist represented , and not misrepresented ; being in answer to the second sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented . and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrines and practices of the church of rome , in the point of their praying to the cross . licensed , december . . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxvii . the papist represented , and not misrepresented , &c. when i observe the late proceedings of some of the controvertists in the church of rome , and the design they have in hand of setting forth their doctrines and practices in a way less offensive to others , and more defensible to themselves , than in former ages ; i cannot better resemble it , than to a carver , that being employed to form an image of the virgin mary or other saint , concerns not himself to make it like to the person thereby to be represented , but so as shall best serve to allure and excite the people to a devout adoration of it . if the image was strictly to be examined , and we had an original to compare it with , it 's likely there might not be one true line in the whole composure , and that it might as well suit any other person in the world , as him or her whom it pretends to resemble . and thus it will fare in many points now introduced upon the stage by veron and the bishop of meaux abroad , and a late flourishing pen and others amongst us , which carry in them so little conformity to the ancient doctrine and practice of the church of rome , that face can hardly be more unlike to face , than one would be unlike to the other , if impartially compared ; and which , if in another age they had appeared as they do in this , would have been suspected of heresy , if not condemned for it . for did they in former times formally pray to the saints , and frequently beg those things of them , which are only in the power of god to grant ? the papist after the new mode of representation , is said to believe all good , whether spiritual or temporal , comes immediately from god through the merits of christ ; and that they no otherwise desire the just in heaven to pray for them , than they do the just on earth , to be joint-petitioners with themselves to the seat of the divine majesty . did they heretofore use , without scruple , to worship and to pray to images , as if the persons thereby represented were before them ? we are now told , they give no other respect , honour and veneration to them , than we do to the bible ; and that they can as well pray to the monument , &c. as to the image of the greatest saint in heaven . did they formerly adore the cross , and direct their prayers to it in the solemn offices of the church ? it 's now only a rapture , an innocent wish , a rhetorical flight . by which palliations and glosses it may well be supposed , they are ashamed or grow weary of their religion as formely practised and defended ; and were they as sincere as liberal in their concessions , that they are hastning apace to a reformation of it . but now as we are not to judg of the virgin mary and other saints by the images and pictures of them extant in the world ( in which the carvers and painters do indulge their fancy ) for then they would be black and fair , little and great , and what not ? so we must not judg of the doctrine and practice of the church of rome , by the design of these late officious artists ; for then we should find contradictions in their infallible church , building and pulling down , saying and unsaying , age against age , principles and practices against principles and practices ; but we must have recourse to the originals , and see what their authentick authors and offices do teach , and what is yet practised in those places where their religion has no enemy near , to contend with , or to make too curious observations upon it . which course , as i have already observed in discoursing upon the worship given by them to images , so i shall proceed in this present argument of the cross ; and shew what reason there was for that charge in the catechism that they pray directly to it . but here our author takes up the point betimes , and a strain of calumny , insincerity , defamation charged upon the catechism , &c. runs through the whole chapter . and why ? is it because it has produced any false citations against them , or such as are insufficient ? no , but the catechism takes that literally which is to be understood figuratively ; and from two words in one of their hymns which literally imply a prayer to the cross , takes the occasion of charging them with directly praying to it ; whereas the papists are never any where directed to pray to the cross , and have no prayers to it . upon the reading of this , i was for the present at a stand , how a person of that communion , and that undertakes the defence of its publick offices , should be so ignorant as to profess there are but two words in one of their hymns to this purpose , and that they have no prayers to the cross , nor direction about it ; or if he did know otherwise , how he should be as confident to assert it , as if no one had ever read their offices , but themselves . but being now a little wonted to his way , i began to think there must be some reserved meaning in these positive assertions ; and by looking back a page or two , i find that he and the catechism are not agreed about the chief term in dispute , and that is the cross. for whereas the charge in the catechism is , that they pray directly to the cross , he , with much sincerity , alters the terms , and saith , that the faithful catechist produces an argument to prove the papists so stupid , as to pray directly to a piece of wood , and a mere material cross. but if that is a meer piece of wood , which in the consecration of , the bishop prays may be made the stability of faith , and increase of good works , and the redemption of souls . if that be a meer piece of wood , which they use all expressions of outward adoration to , by kissings , prostrations , &c. if that be a meer piece of wood , to which they give latria , or the sovereign worship which is peculiar to god ; then indeed they pray also directly to a meer piece of wood , to increase grace in the godly , &c. but if the cross they thus consecrate and bless , and is thus effectual after consecration ; if the cross they adore , kiss and prostrate themselves before ; if , lastly , the cross they give divine and sovereign worship to , is not a mere piece of wood , so then neither is that a mere piece of wood , they are said in the catechism to pray directly to . for it 's the same cross that the one and the other , nay that all of the things here recited of , are in the catechism applied to . but becaufe i am willing to clear the point , and as much as i can , leave it without exception , . i shall shew what they mean by a cross. . i shall prove that they do adore and worship the cross. . that they do pray directly to the cross they adore . the cross we are now concerned about , is an external representation of our saviour crucified upon it : and so is as distinct from a bare material cross , a meer cross of wood , &c. as what is an object of worship , is from that which is none . for by being thus representative , it 's no longer what it was before , a mere piece of wood ; but being in the stead of him whom it represents , and sustaining his person , it hath by that means an excellency communicated to it , and which formally alters the nature of it , as gretser the jesuit , a copious writer upon this argument , doth shew . for the further explication of which , and to add some authority to the abovesaid character of the cross , i shall transcribe the sum of what he writes of this matter . it having , it seems , been objected , that if all the crosses are to be worshipped because christ hung upon the cross ; by the same reason all thorns , reeds , nails , spears , sepulchres , &c. are to have the same respect , because christ was crown'd with thorns , nail'd to the cross , had his side pierc'd , and at last was buried in a sepulchre . to this gretser answers , that all crosses are made in imitation of the cross upon which christ suffered , and of him suffering upon it , and that they may both represent that and him. wherefore we do deservedly honour all crosses , as they are images , and an image is for representation ; but we do not thus honour all sepulchres , nails , &c. because they are not images or representations of the sepulchre of christ , nor of the nails that fastened his body to the cross. but if any one doth build a sepulchre , or erect a manger , or make nails , or choose out thorns in imitation , and for a representation of the first sepulchre , manger , nails and thorns , &c. it is no doubt but they may be worshipped . for then they are indued with , and have in them the nature of an image , which is representation . so that as there is a distinction betwixt sepulchre and sepulchre , manger and manger ; and which distinction is such , that the one is an object of worship , and another is not ; so there is betwixt cross and cross , that is , betwixt a cross , either natural , accidental , and artificial when made for other uses , and a cross that is representative ( as the same author there shews . ) so that our author might safely enough declare , that if his religion did either teach or practice such stupid idolatry , as praying to a piece of wood , he could no more be any longer of her communion than he could sacrifice to molech . for as it 's a piece of wood , it 's not the cross we are here concerned in , not the cross by representation , not the cross by consecration , which alone , and under that consideration is the object of their worship . so that tho he may continue in that communion , and make this protestation against a piece of wood ; yet he cannot be of that communion and enter the like protestation against a representing and consecrated cross , and call such application to it , idolatry . for this cross we are speaking of , is not only representative , but is also consecrated for that purpose ; and there is an office accordingly , with such prayers , rites and ceremonies as make it as well a sacred , as a representing object . as for instance , in the consecration of a new cross of wood , the bishop prays in these words ; we pray thee , o holy lord , &c. that thou wouldest vouchsase to bless this wood of thy cross , that it may be a wholsom [ saving ] remedy to mankind ; a stability of faith , an increase of good works ▪ the redemption of souls , a comfort , protection and defence against the evil darts of the enemies , through our lord , &c. and as if this were not sufficient , after the consecration of the incense , the bishop sprinkles the cross with holy-water , and incenses it ; saying , let this wood be sanctified in the name of the fa ✚ ther , and of the s ✚ on , and of the holy ✚ ghost . let the blessing of that wood upon which the holy members of our saviour hung , be in this wood ; that all that pray and bow down themselves for god , before this cross , may find health both of soul and body , through the same jesus christ. but if the cross be of metal , &c. then he is to pray to christ in these words , do thou take this cross [ now consecrated ] in those hands with which thou hast embraced that [ on which he hung ] and with the holiness of that , do thou sanctisy this : and as the world by that was cleansed from guilt , so the devout souls of thy servants who offer it , may by the merit of this cross be delivered from every sin they have committed . so that it 's very evident , that as the cross by virtue of its representation ▪ is quite another thing than a meer piece of wood ; so upon its consecration , it 's indued with another nature ; for then it has merits of its own ; it 's healthful both for soul and body , and is for the stability of faith , the increase of good works , the comfort of souls to all them that bow down before it . and here it 's sit to be remembred against we come to need it , that there can be no apostrophe , no rhetorical flight , when we not only consider it 's a prayer , and not a poetical composure ; but that also the cross here spoken of , is as much distinguished from christ , as from that cross he suffered upon . by this time , i hope , it 's sufficiently prov'd , that the cross in dispute , is another thing than a meer piece of wood . but tho the right stating of a case goes a great way toward the resolving of it , yet this is not all i intend in it : to proceed therefore , . i shall prove that they do adore and worship the cross. it has been of late pretended by some , that the cross is only a memorative sign : but this was accounted in the last age , little better than heresy : and therefore gretser saith of the lutherans , who retain'd crosses in their churches for remembrance ▪ and not for worship , that they are enemies to the cross , and not better than those that wholly reject them ▪ for indeed , this is so embodied into the offices of the church of rome , that no one can be truly of that communion ▪ but must thus conceive as they do . thus we find after the consecration of the cross , the bishop first kneels before it , and doth devoutly adore and kiss it , as do also all that are present , if they so please . but tho it be left to the pleasure of the people in that solemnity , yet it shows what the church doth intend ; and accordingly it doth call upon them in the publick office , to joyn with her in the adoration of it ; as gretser doth acknowledg . for the missal saith , at the uncovering of the cross , behold the wood of the cross , come , let us adore ; upon which all the people fall to the ground . and when the priest hath wholly uncovered the cross , and repeated , as before he places it before the altar , and first himself draws near to adore the cross ; bowing his knees thrice before he kisses it . and then the attendants at the altars , and the clergy and laity , two and two , as he did , adore the cross ; the quire in the mean while singing , we adore thy cross , o lord. this i take to be past controversy in the church of rome , where it is not disputed , whether the cross is to be worshipped , but with what worship it is to be worshipped . and which indeed is also determined to their hands by the pontificale in the place quoted in that catechism which our author wrote this chapter against . and therefore when joh. aegidius , a canon of sevil , had maintained that god was to be worshipped with latria [ soveraign worship ] and the cross with dulia [ an inferiour sort of worship ( as they call it ) which they give to the saints ] he was injoyned a publick recantation , as denying the adoration of the cross , contrary to the practice of the church , which saith , o crux ave spes union , hail , o cross , our only hope . and in another place . crucem tuam adoramus , vve do adore thy cross , as ludovicus de param● relates it . and this puts me in mind of bringing this matter to a conclusion , which i shall do , by shewing , . that they do directly pray to the cross. this was asserted in the catechism , but i must not say prov'd , till i have clear'd the point . but however if it was not prov'd , there was somewhat fairly offer'd towards it ; when it produced the express words of the breviary in justification of it ; which before i proceed i shall recite . the words are these ; hail o cross , our only hope ! do thou increase grace in the godly , and blot out the sins in the guilty . in exception to what the catechism hath produc'd this for , our author hath said as much as the cause will bear , and to give him his due , with art ▪ and smartness enough : and to give what he hath said its full sense , i shall , without taking notice of the extravagant censures , and inveterate expressions scattered through the whole , sum up what he hath said : and it comes all to this ; that this hymn is of ancient composure ; that it 's an hymn and not a prayer , and so being poetical , it 's but a rhetorical flight and apostrophe , frequent in scripture , and the fathers ; that there are but two ( that is , i suppose , a few ) words in one hymn to this purpose ; that the church hath no prayer to the cross , nor are they ever directed any where to pray to it . in fine , he saith , the meaning of their church in saying that hymn , is , hail , o christ , our only hope , &c. i am apt to think that he will grant , upon the perusal of the whole , that i have done no injury to what he hath said , by this short and close account of it . but now if i shall be able to prove that this is a prayer as well as an hymn , and that there are parts of their office to corroborate the sense i have given of it ; if i prove that their church hath prayers to the cross , and directs the people to pray to it , i think there will need little more to vindicate the catechism from all that defamation he hath so plentifully cast upon it . in the first place , he tells us that this hymn is found in st. ambrose's works . so bellarmine indeed saith it was in the paris edition , which he used ; and yet there are other editions in which it is not . so that i may as well say , it is not in st. ambrose's works , as he may say that it is , and both alike true . but is this any credit to it ? then it would be so to the hymns , optatus votis omnium , & christe , qui lux es & dies , &c. which bellarmine saith are unworthy of so great a name , and not to be attributed to him . but however if st. ambrose be not the author of it , he has found out a learned bishop to father it upon , one vincentius fortunatus , who , he saith , composed it to be sung by his church on passion sunday . but tho he hath not favoured us with the see this bishop had , yet i easily apprehend whom it is that he means , and that is venantius fortunatus , which mistake i shall be so candid as not to impute to his ignorance in these matters , but to the haste , which he that intends to write a weekly packet of controversy must be more or less liable to . but yet i am not satisfied in the point ; for tho he has the learned bellarmine before him , that seems to say , or is willing to have it believed , that this bishop was the author of this hymn ; yet i find others doubting of it ; and amongst them is gretser , who tho a diligent reader , and one as willing and ready to lay hold of what might serve for his purpose , as bellarmine , or any man whatsoever , yet speaks very doubtfully of it , and saith , some do attribute it to theodulphus [ bishop of orleance ] , others to fortunatus ; the former of which lived years after the latter , according to bellarmine . so that the truth is , there is no certainty at all in this matter , which our author hath yet so positively asserted . but be that as it will , it 's no great matter who is the author of it , nor indeed what the sense of that author was , for as long as we know what church doth constantly use it , and in what sense that church doth take it , we have enough for our purpose : and that is the thing to be now enquired into . i grant that the words here quoted , are part of an hymn , and that there are several things to be indulged to a poetical fancy , that are not otherwise to be indulged : and therefore if there was nothing in their church , to induce and oblige us to take it in a sense quite different from what he imposes on it , it would not be fair or ingenuous to force a proper sense upon it , when the nature and reason of the thing , as well as their own declaration , require it to be taken in an improper . but when we know that the cross is among them , a representation of our saviour's passion , and has for that reason a worship given and ordered to be given to it as a representing obiect . when we know that it 's also consecrated , and upon its consecration is supposed to have altered its nature , and to have divine vertues communicated to it , or to have a power of communicating such vertues to those that adore it . when , further , the passage quoted from this hymn is conformable to the other offices of the church , we have no reason in the world to take it in his sense , when we have thus the current sense of their own church against it . i think i have made it evident before , in what i have said of the consecration of the cross , that the cross is considered as a distinct thing from our saviour , because they pray to him to bless the cross , and to have such and such vertues communicated to it and by it . i think also it has been made evident , that the cross it self is to be considered and proposed as an object of adoration . and then , why is it more absurd to pray to the cross , than it is thus to adore it ? or , why is it absurd to pray to the cross for that , which they have pray'd before may be communicated to the cross ? but because this is but reasoning ( though such reasoning as is natural and plain ) therefore i shall appeal to the hymn it self , which i shall transcribe . vexilla regis prodeuut , fulget crucis mysterium , quo carne carnis conditor suspensus est patibulo . arbor decora & fulgida , ornata regis purpura , electa digno stipite tam sancta membra tangere , &c. o crux ave spes unica , paschale quae fers gaudium piis ad auge gratiam . reisque dele crimina . the banner of the king comes forth , the mystery of the cross doth shine . on which cross , the maker of flesh hath hung . a comely and bright tree , adorn'd with the purple of the king , chosen out of a stock worthy , &c. to touch so sacred members , hail , o cross , our only hope , increase grace in the godly . and blot out the sins of the guilty . then in one of the places quoted in the catechism immediately follows this sequence , the sign of the cross shall be in heaven , when the lord shall come to judgment . but this is not all ; for it follows further , o cross , brighter than all the stars , which alone hast been thought worthy to bear the weight of the world ! sweet wood , bearing the sweet nails and sweet burdens ; save the present company , gathered together this day for thy praise . from whence i observe , . that the word cross in this hymn , cannot be applied to christ , but to the cross distinct from him : for else , the cross which is the banner of the king , would be the king himself ; the cross on which the maker of flesh hung in his flesh , would be the same with the maker of flesh ; the tree which touched his sacred members , be the same with the members touched by that tree . . i observe that the cross which is saluted with hail , o cross , our daily hope , is the same with the cross upon which christ hung ; and therefore must be the cross this salutation is directed to . . that the same , or what is equivalent to it , which our author supposeth here to be said poetically , is prayed for ; sweet wood , save the present company . but because all the contradictions in the world will not open some men eyes , i shall give our author the sence of persons as considerable in his own church for learning and authority , as himself may be presumed to be . and first of all , let us hear dominicus soto , a divine ( as i remember ) in the council of trent , who , it seems had not learned our author's sence of this matter ; for he saith , we ought to worship the images themselves ; for the church doth not say , we worship thee , o christ , but thy cross , o crux ave , spes unica , &c. catharinus leads us a little further , for he saith , we direct our words and signs of adoration to the images , to which likewise we burn incense : as when we say to the cross , o crux ave spes unica , &c. and so aquinas and others tell us , that latria is to be given to images , because the church in praying to the cross , speaks to it as if it were christ himself . from which authorities , we may perceive how little heed is to be given to our author ( though he writes as if he held the sense of their whole church in the hollow of his hand ) when he affirms , that the meaning of catholicks in saying that hymn , is , hail , o christ , our only hope ! and that in the holy time of the passion , in which that hymn is sung , their whole devotion and prayers are directed to him. by which words one would at first think , our author was much of imbert's mind , a disciple ( as he himself thought ) of the bishop of meaux , who when the cross was shewn to the people on good-friday , franckly and openly declared , we adore not any thing of what we see , but jesus christ crucified ; and that he might expect the same censure for it , as that poor man met with from his diocesan . but our author has prudently provided for his own security ; for by adding a word or two , he has rendred his exposition harmless , and secured himself from the fate of imbert : for a line or two before , he saith , the catholicks do not understand the words of this hymn barely of the material cross , but of christ crucified . and indeed our author is not alone , nor the first in this exposition , for thus it 's also expounded in a french office , viz. this adoration is not terminated only on the wood , but on jesus christ who was nailed thereon : [ cette adoration ne se termine pas au seul bois , mais à j. c. qui y a esté attaché ] . so that for the future , when we meet with such expositions , that do seemingly translate the worship from the cross wholly to our saviour , we are to understand that there is some reserved qualification , to moderate it , such as merely , barely , only , that is implied , or express'd perhaps a line or two before or afterwards . and having now this key , we may pretend to understand the meaning of our author's exposition , and , if you will take his word , the meaning of all catholicks , which is this , hail , o cross , our only hope , and , hail , o christ , our only hope ; that is , christ is their only hope , but so as the cross is their hope too ; and the cross is their only hope , but so as christ is their hope also . so that whilst our author charges the catechism with pointing to a false and mistaken sense , he himself has , much to the advantage of the hymn , expounded it into non-sense . a word , i must confess , i borrow from him , and which puts me in mind of the last tire , that he discharges upon the catechism ; but though in managing of this he hath spent the greatest part of his sheet , i shall dispatch it in few words . if , saith he , for these words in this anthem , their church must be blackned with the infamy of idolatry , and praying directly to the cross ; then stand clear paul , have a care chrysostom , beware o creed , and you common-prayer book , look to your self . for if you have but a grave catechist that will faithfully represent you ; you 'l be infallibly set out for nothing better than professors of folly and non-sence , bundles of absurdities and prophaneness , &c. one would think that this author , from a certain pique he has taken against what he so often calls a grave catechism , had forgotten all gravity , and respect to the most serious matters . stand clear , have a care , beware . who and what are these addressed to ? no other than a holy st. paul , an excellent st. chrysostom , and the chief sum of the articles of our faith. for god's sake are there no more decent forms of speech to describe these things by ? and are we to discourse of them as if we were at some light and rustical pastimes ? but what can be strange in this kind , when it shall be suggested that there is as much reason to say st. paul reverenced the material cross above all things in heaven and earth , because he saith , god forbid that i should glory save in the cross of our lord jesus christ : as much reason to say , he looked upon the wood of the cross , as that which had purchased man's reconciliation to god , because he saith , man was reconciled to god in one body , by the cross ; as there is for saying the church of rome prays directly to the cross , because she salutes it with hail , o cross , our only hope : and as if there was no more reason to apply this to a material cross , than there is these and the like texts of st. paul. he doth indeed intimate , and would have it understood , that the material cross is herein concerned . for thus he saith , to do right to st. paul , st. chrysostom , &c. besides giving a bare narrative of their expressions , it ought to be explicated to the people that in these high encomiums they do not understand the meer material cross. but when he can prove there was any material cross then used , and that those encomiums do in any sense belong to it , then it will be time enough to answer further to his exceptions ; but till that time , what i have already said about the notion of a cross , the consecration , the adoration of it , and i will venture to say their prayer to it , is sufficient to shew , that though there be good reason to understand st. paul in a figurative sense , there is none to understand the phrase , before recited and used in the romish church in that sense . if our author expects an answer to his heathenish catechism , ( as he calls it ) which is a name very proper for it ; i shall , instead of that , only put a few questions , and conclude . q. whether the crosses used in the religious service of the church of rome be mere pieces of wood , & c ? q. whether they may not , and are not to adore the cross , tho they may not adore a meer piece of wood ? q. how the cross which they pray to christ to bless , is made the stability of faith , and increase of good works ? q. how the cross upon which christ hung , may be christ who hung upon the cross ? finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pap. misr . par . . c ▪ . ibid c. . ibid. de cruce . l. . c. . chap. . misrepr . p. . c. . c ▪ p. . pontificale in benedic . nov. crucis . salutare . de cruce l. . c. . pontific . ibid. ibid. c. . missal . rom. in para●●ev . fer. . lud. de paramo de orig. s. inquis . l. . tit . . c. . n. . bellarm. de scriptor . eccles . an. . ibid. de venant . fortun. lib. . de cruce , c. . fest. invent. crucis ad vesper . dom. soto de instit. & jure . l. . q. . art . . in fin . cathar . de cultu & ador . imag. p. , & . v. simon . majolus pro desens . sacr . imag. centur . . c. . page . see the defence of the exposition of the doctrine of the church of england . append . p. . l'office de la semaine sancte , francois & latin. o à lyon , p. . remarques , p. . page . page . page . the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the first sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the first sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. bm. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- papist misrepresented and represented. catholic church -- doctrines. catholic church -- liturgy. idols and images -- worship. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the papist represented , and not misrepresented ; being in answer to the first sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented . and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome . licensed , december . . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxvii . the papist represented , and not misrepresented , &c. after a cause hath been managed to so plain a disadvantage , that there hath been no place left , and no reasonable care taken for its defence , he must have a good measure of assurance in himself , and presume too much upon the weakness or good nature , the ignorance or drowsiness of the age he lives in , that before the controversie is cold , shall venture the same again into the world , without offering at any shew of a new argument , to support and vindicate the old. and yet this is the case of the author of the second part of the papist misreprented and represented ; who in the single chapter newly published , of the veneration shown to images , hath in substance and contrivance transcribed what was wrote upon the same subject in the first part , and that with as much liberty and confidence , as if there had never been such books in the world , as the doctrines and practices of the church of rome , &c. and an answer to papists protesting against protestant popery ; that had taken this argument to task , and shew'd the weakness and the falshood of it . when i first cast my eye upon this sheet , and observed how formally he had drawn up the argument in the beginning , i thought now , if ever , he would state the case , and argue closely upon it ; and that he that complains so much of the mists and confusion raised from the disagreeing opinions of divines amongst themselves , and the infamy cast upon the doctrine and practice about images in their church , by letting loose the school-debates amongst the multitude ; would have been so kind to the world , as to shew us what we are to trust to , and what those once famous directors of controversie and conscience ( the school-men ) but now it seems dangerous enemies to the peace and propagation of their religion , do hold to the detriment and disadvantage of it . but instead of that , we have a character of an image-worshipper of his own making , setforth with a various mixture of similitudes and resemblances , which after he hath trimm'd up in somewhat a new fashion , he hopes may pass with better authority , and be received with greater respect than whatsoever these abovesaid wrangling disputants , attended with all their speculative scruples ( to use his words ) can propose . but tho' he thinks fit thus to desert the schools ; yet having some reverence for them , and more for truth , i shall gently take him by the hand , and from the mists and confusion of a declamatory discourse , turn him back to the old way of argument , and see if we can better understand one another , and the cause we are at present concern'd in . in order to which , i shall shew , . what is meant by an image . . what worship is given , and to be given to an image in the church of rome . . that the catechism he opposeth , hath given no other account of their doctrine and practice in this matter , than is conformable to it . an image ( in the ecclesiastical sense ) is an external and visible representation of some divine or glorified being and object , ( such as god , the blessed trinity , christ , angels and saints ) set up for the receiving religious honour and worship . so that whatever things do not represent , or are not intended to represent a divine or glorified object ; or that are not set up to receive religious worship , or have not religious worship given to them , are not concerned in the dispute . and of this kind thus excluded , are , . all visible signs and marks of distinction ; such ( to use his instances ) are a lion and vnicorn when set up in a place to intimate that there the king is owned as supreme . and such may a cross be ( where there is occasion ) when set up , suppose in or upon a christian church , to distinguish it from a turkish mosque . but why crosses or the like should therefore be so necessary , that those that allow them not ( as well where this reason is not , as where it is ) should be deemed to allow of nothing to shew they are christians , is an inference of our authors , but what i confess is past my understanding . . hereby are excluded all those effigies and pictures that are for ornament , or that serve to testify the honour and respect we bear to the persons to whom they have a resemblance . and of this kind are the pictures of moses and aaron , queen elizabeth , and king charles the first of blessed memory , which are in some of our churches ; and those of christ and the apostles , which are retained in others . . hereby are also excluded all historical signs , that are intended for the preservation of the memory of good and holy persons ; or that occasionally may either excite in us devout thoughts and affections , or that may serve for instruction ( if that can be ) : for how such do instruct like the bible , when the bible can instruct those that are before ignorant of the mysteries of our religion ; but a picture or image cannot instruct without somewhat else to instruct before or with it ; or how an image or cross is upon this consideration a part of gods holy word , without any difference from that chapter of the bible which treats of the same , except the different fashion of the strokes , and manner of laying on the ink ; are doctrines that become a member of that church , which for the better edification of the people , whilst it exposes images to them , keeps the bible from them . . of this sort are those things which have an eminent relation to god and his service , to which for that reason a certain reverence and suitable respect is more or less due . and so its lawful and decent to be uncovered at reading the bible , and the hearing it expounded ; and to kiss it in taking an oath , as a token of the reverence and the regard we have for it . and this we do , not because in the bible the strokes of the ink are so ordered and joyn'd in the paper , that they signifie and represent the doctrine and passion of christ , ( a description that rather becomes a book of emblems and hieroglyphicks , than of divine doctrine ) not because i say it represents ( as he mistakes ) but as it contains the great articles of our faith , &c. these are things which the controversie is not at all concerned in ( being either no visible representations of divine or glorified beings , or not set up for receiving religious honour and worship ) . and yet to these are all the resemblances used by our author , to be refer'd ; and who with these , shuts up the whole controversie , as if there was no other use of images in the church of rome , than what the pictures of queen elizabeth , or moses and aaron serve for in ours ; and that the honour and reverence they give to them , is no more than the reverence we give to the bible : for thus he concludes , let divines wrangle [ meaning their own ] to the worlds end , and dispute whether this honour , this reverence and respect shewn to the bible , to a preachers sermon , to pictures or images , be the same , or distinct from what is given to the things represented ; whether it terminates on them absolutely after an inferior manner , or only relatively , and so forth . this they may go on with , &c. but for his part , he is little concerned . where he supposeth two things , ( ) that it 's a controversie amongst them , whether the honour and reverence they give to consecrated images and pictures , be other than what is shewn to the bible , or a preachers sermon : and ( ) that the controversie among their divines about the worship given to them , whether absolute or negative , is of little concernment ; whereas the former ( as shall presently be shew'd ) neither is nor can be a controversie among them upon their principles . and the latter is a controversie of that importance , that each side charges the other with no worse a consequence of their principle , than idolatry . as to the former part of the description i have given of an image ( viz. that it 's a visible representation of a divine or glorified being ) there is no dispute ; but the dispute will be , about the latter part [ viz. that it 's set up for the receiving of religious honour and worship . ] for as our author has avoided the word worship all along , even to the omission of a clause in what he quotes from the council of trent [ propter quam sint colendoe ] so he seems resolved not to admit of it , or even so much as the external actions belonging to it . for so he goes on . this then is what he [ the papist represented ] do's as to sacred images ; and though his adversaries , by calling this worshipping , adoring , and falling down to images , raise a notion of idolatry , &c. so that it seems it is only a fiction of their adversaries , what they call so , but which they neither do in fact , nor so much as in word , call by those names of worshipping , adoring , and falling down to images . but if i prove that they use the words by which those things are understood , that they use such actions and postures as are conformable to those words , and that they apply those actions and postures to the images , and that the images are to be had and retained in churches for that end ; i think i shall have by that time done whatever is necessary to make good the abovesaid description of an image , and of what is infer'd from it . as to the words , there are three used by themselves in this matter , viz. honor , veneratio , cultus . which last i know not how otherwise to render , as distinct from the two former , than by worship ; and so i find it rendred by one of themselves . and that it 's so to be understood , is evident from the d council of nice , ( which that of trent in the same place appeals and approves to ) where we find an anathema against those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that do not worship the holy and venerable images : and so pope adrian , in his epistle to that synod , saith of his own practice , i adore the images , &c. and that this is the doctrine of both the one and the other council , i appeal to many of their own authors , ( which i shall produce if there be occasion ) who say , that images are to be adored : and suarez for all saith , that it's de fide imagines esse adorandas , that it 's a matter of faith that images are to be adored . but as the words , so the postures shew it , it being an unhappy oversight of our author's , who saith , that falling down to images , is a fiction of their adversaries ; when the council of trent is so express in it , that by the images which we kiss , and before which we uncover our heads , and fall down , we do adore christ , &c. but here our author it 's like hath a reserve : for will he say , the thing that our adversaries charge us with , is falling down to images ? but that i deny , for we only fall down before the images , as the council saith , but do not fall down to them . indeed if this be his refuge , it 's fairly argued : but if this be his sense , then what becomes of that other part of the decree of the same council , which requires , that due honour and veneration be given to them , [ eis impertiendam ] ? and which ought to be kept in churches , and are there set up that they may be worshipped , as saith their catechism . ad paroc . but this will be further confirm'd , when , . i have shewed , that the catechism he now opposeth , hath given no other account of the doctrine and practice of the church of rome about images , than is conformable to it . against this , for the present , our author objects nothing but the phrase therein used of praying to images . and here he runs again to his resemblances , to the monument , the statues upon the exchange , and the giants at guild-hall ; to rhetorical exclamations , and expostulations , with much piquantry against the poor six-peny catechism : but what is the haste to coast thus up and down the town , to westminster , to the exchange , to wapping and spittle-fields , and where not ? i perceive it will be too great a task to follow him who sets no bounds to himself ; and therefore to shorten the way , i shall ' ene lay my self open to him , and confess the charge i exhibited against them of praying to images . to prove which before , our author saith i made use of this argument , viz. prayer is to the object to which the veneration is to be given ; but the veneration is to be given to the image , as representing , and so is the prayer . and here he crys out sophistry , and triumphs over it for near half a page together . but is this argument mine , or was it produced to prove the papists pray to images ? indeed i had argued that if they do not pray to images , why are the prayers used at the consecration of them ? to what end are the pilgrimages to them ? why do they direct their prayers to them ? but to this there is not a word of answer , when in reason it ought to be expected , whereas he takes much pains to confute that which never was asserted . had the argument been ( as he supposeth ) to prove , that if they give veneration to images , they therefore pray to them ; he ought to have been so ingenuous , as to remember , that the catechism supposeth that the terms veneration and worship , are in this case much one and the same ; and that the church of rome doth worship as well as venerate images ( which now i have shewed my reasons for ) : and this the line immediately before would have instructed him in . and if so , the argument has so much truth in it , that it will cost him some more time and thoughts to disprove . but to what shall i impute it , whether to oversight , or sophistry , when he places the argument upon a wrong foot , and from a proof , that praying to images in the catechism , was to images as representing , doth translate it to a proof of praying to images because they venerate them . i am confident the controvertists of spittle-fields and wapping , as little as i know them ( the reader will pardon the phrase for it 's his own ) would not have argued more inconsequently , and those that have but stepp'd over the vniversity-threshold , ( to use his words ) would have call'd it an arguing à baculo ad angulum : when what i say respects the object , and he transfers it to the act. but this it is to run impetuously , with much fancy , and little consideration , into the field of disputation . for take the argument as it lies , and i think it 's fair and plain . for , if the proposition is true , that the worship ( not honour alone , that 's his insertion ) given to images , is to the persons represented ; then so is all depending upon it . for what is the image , but the image of the person represented ? what do they honour , venerate , and kiss ? before what do they fall down ? to what do they offer incense , but the image of the person represented ? and then , to what do they pray , but to the image of the person represented ? for where the veneration , the salutation , the prostration , and the oblation are , there is also the prayer . i must confess this way of arguing may prove too much for him ; but that i cannot help , be it to them that lay down the premises from whence the conclusion is inferr'd . but because he doth not like consequences and inferences ( unless they are of his own making ) i shall first of all put him in mind , that it has been proved by one , whom he should in reason be acquainted with , that to , before , and in presence of a representative object , as representing , are the very same . and to the solid proof which that learned author has given of it , i shall add , that not only do the latins use those phrases alike in that case , and so what in pliny is , imagini supplicare , is in arnobius , ad imaginem ; but that these words are thus promiscuously used also in the church of rome it self : so in the decree of the council of trent , before cited , what in one line is , iis impertiendam , to the images , is in another , coram iis , before them . and that i may not be without some sufficient proof , we have our author himself thus speaking to and fro ; for sometimes it 's a veneration before images , page . sometimes a veneration to them , pag. , & . and why i may not be allowed to use these words indifferently , that are indifferently used by them : or , why to in praying to images , should be worse than to in a veneration given to them , i know not ; unless what 's right in them is wrong in me ? but this praying to images is a thing not to be born , it 's to leave the papists , their credit , and their doctrine to the favour and mercy of — but who is to be blamed for this ? why do they then in terms pray to the cross and the veronica , & c ? why do they tell us of a divine presence , that is , if not in them , yet with them , as tursellinus affirms of that at lorreto ? why do they write whole books of the miracles wrought by the virgin mary , and others saints by their images ? why do they suffer persons to go long and tedious pilgrimages to them ? &c. certainly it is as innocent for us to say , they give worship and pray to images , as for them to say , and to do it . but because i am willing to conclude , i shall , in confirmation of what i have said , transcribe an old form of abjuration impos'd upon the lollards , which is this ; i do swear to god , and to all his seynts , upon this holy gospel ; and fro this day forward i shall worship images with praying and offering to them , in the worschop of the seynts that they be made after . so that if i have erred , i have err'd with a council , with their breviaries , with the decrees and practice of their church , and with approved authors of their own . and if they stand right and justified in it , i hope i may be acquitted . considering especially that after all that this gentleman , ( who has bore thus hard upon me , and used such a sort of wit , and such phrases and modes of speech , as are more fit for a stage , than a scholar and divine ) has transgress'd in the same way , and call'd our kneeling at the lord's supper , a kneeling to the elements , or ( as he calls it ) to the sacramental figure , pag. . whereas he very well knows , or ought to have known , for the sake of a passage , in the preface to the first part of the papist represented and misrepresented , ( if the author be the same ) that the same church which hath required we should receive the sacrament kneeling , hath also declared , that no adoration is intended , or ought to be done , to the sacramental bread and wine there bodily received . the kneeling to , supposeth an object of adoration before us , and is an act of worship ; but the kneeling when , is no more than a devout posture of receiving it ; and which our church saith , is a signification of an humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of christ therein given to all worthy receivers . so that with as much truth and reason might he have affirmed , we kneel to the minister from whose hands we receive the elements , as to the elements we receive from him . now if in conclusion i should return upon him the same lavish rhetorick ( not to call it worse ) for his misrepresentation of our church , which he has treated me with , for what he can never be able to prove , is a misrepresentation of theirs , i am sensible i should offend against the laws of good manners , and of the best religion in the world. and here i should take my leave of him , but that this day he sends me a second challenge , which as little as i love disputes , i shall yet accept of ; and do not question ( but through god's assistance ) i shall give him such satisfaction as becomes a christian , a lover of truth , peace , and charity . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e concil . trid. sess. . & catechis . ad paroc . s.c. answ. to dr. pierce , c. . actio . . suar. in . p. q. . disp. . §. . an answer to the papists protesting , &c. pag. , &c. lauret . hist. praef. mirac . . consrat . . dolor . duad . spelman concil . to. . p. . a vindication of the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god in answer to a book intituled the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god, examined, stated on the behalf of the dissenters and calmly argued. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god in answer to a book intituled the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god, examined, stated on the behalf of the dissenters and calmly argued. williams, john, ?- . bagshaw, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by h. hills, for fincham gardner ..., london : . attributed to john williams. cf. dnb. attributed also to edward bagshaw. cf. halkett and laing. this work also appears, on reel : , as the seventh item in v. of: a collection of cases and other discourses / by some divines of the city of london (wing c ) . reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng williams, john, ?- . -- case of indifferent things used in the worship of god examined. god -- worship and love. god -- worship and love -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of the case of indifferent things , used in the worship of god : in answer to a book , intituled , the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god , examined , stated on the behalf of the dissenters , and calmly argued . london , printed by h. hills , for fincham gardner at the white-horse in ludgate-street , . a vindication of the case of indifferent things , used in the worship of god. amongst some tracts published within the year for the resolution of such doubts , as the dissenters from our church plead for refusing communion with it , there was one that respected the use of indifferent things in the worship of god. this some one of our brethren chose to examine and to begin his debate with ; in the management of which whether he hath dealt closely and ingenuously to use his own words ) i shall take the liberty to enquire , and must leave others to judge . i confess i was not alittle surprized , that before he had set one foot forward , he should thus assault me , if that r. person had been pleased to have determined who is to be judge of things indifferent , as to a man's practice , whether his own conscience or his superior &c. he would ( in our opinion ) have made the matter in dispute much fitter for an argument , whereas the most dissenters judge , that as he hath stated it , he hath but beg'd the question . if the dispute had been betwixt protestant and papist , there might have been some colour to have spent pages in upon this argument ; though even betwixt such there may be cases controverted in which this demand would be impertinent : but to put it upon this issue when both sides are in the main agreed ( as it is betwixt protestant and protestant ) is a running the question out of its wits , and an hearty begging it , before he puts it . it 's to possess the unwary reader with prejudice , to puzle the cause , and is the way to make every little tract a volume . in matters of controversy there are always some principles supposed , and to put an adversary upon the proof of them , shews a design rather to cavil then to end the dispute , and is a shrewd sign that the person so doing is either diffident of his cause , or his own ability to defend it ; but to return his own complement , we will not presume any thing so absurd or disingenuous of so worthy a person . but how remote soever this question is to the business in hand , yet because our author asks it with some kind of seriousness , i shall direct him where he may have satisfaction , and that in a judicious tract lately published a ; or if he hath the patience to compare the things , as i have done , he may find it resolved by himself , in his case examined . b but in my mind there is a much nearer way to end controversies , which is not by disputing who shall be judge ? but by enabling men to judge for themselves in a clear stating of the case , and setting sorth the nature of the things disputed : as in the case before us , the ready way , one should think , is to shew what is the nature of things indifferent , and that things thus indifferent may be lawfully used in divine worship , and because they may be abused , to enquire how we are to apply them . this was the way i took , and if i did manage it as it should , i am pretty confident that the question was not beg'd , though i never thought of coming near his question , who shall be the judge ? but that is the thing to be disputed , whether the case was rightly stated and proved , and this brings me to the consideration of what he hath offer'd against it . before i enter upon which , i shall only remind the reader , that in the little tract concerned in the present dispute , the question undertaken was ; q. whether things in their own nature indifferent , though not prescribed in the word of god , may be lawfully used in divine worship ? in answer to which ; . i enquired into the nature , and stated the notion of indifferent things . . shew'd that things indifferent may be lawfully used in divine worship . . considered how we might know what things are indifferent in the worship of god. . how we are to determine our selves in the use of them . to most of these our author hath somewhat to say , to some more to some less ; but to the first , he saith , there is none of the dissenters , but agreeth with this author in his notion of things indifferent , that they are such things as by the divine law are neither injoyned nor forbidden . now before i proceed i shall observe that this concession of his will bereave them of some of the common and most considerable arguments that they use in this controversie ; as , if things indifferent are such as are neither injoyned nor forbidden , it must follow that things are not unlawful in divine worship because they are not commanded . the consequence is plain and undeniable : for if the nature of things indifferent be , as abovesaid , what are neither commanded nor forbidden , there is nothing can make this or that to be unlawful but the being forbidden : but now if the being not commanded is the same with the being forbidden then the notion of indifferent things cannot consist in this that they are neither commanded nor forbidden . so that either they must quit the argument , and grant that the being not commanded , doth not make a thing unlawful in divine worship ; or they must alter the notion of indifferent things , and indeed utterly exterminate them , and leave no such middle things in nature , and say that there is nothing else but duty or sin. now after our reverend author hath so frankly granted this , i cannot understand how he can say that the doing of a thing in gods worship , not commanded , is guilt enough : nor why he should take such pains to oppose what i have offered in confutation of that principle . for what can he plead for the unlawfulness of things not commanded , who hath granted that the being not commanded is a branch of such things as are indifferent : and if he will maintain it , he must do it upon no less absurdity , than the saying a thing indifferent is forbidden ; or ( which is the same ) that indifferent things , are such as are either forbidden , or not forbidden . but let us abstract the case of things not commanded from this consequence , and take it as it is in the tract aforesaid , an objection and answer , and yet then we shall see what an imperfect account our author gives of it . he saith , what our author saith is no more than hath been many times said , viz. [ that by things not commanded are meant things forbidden ] and hath nothing to prove it by , but only that the things mentioned in scripture to which that phrase is applied were things forbidden , as idolatry , &c. though what he produceth out of the case be sufficient , yet he extreamly forgets himself when he saith , nothing , but only ; since in the page he quotes , there are two arguments , that are sooner flip'd than answered . but however what hath he to reply to that which hath been many times said ? he grants , it is true . and is this nothing toward the proof of it ? what fitter way have we to find out the meaning of a phrase , than to consider the several places where it is used ? or to ascertain the sense of it , than to shew that it 's always alike applied to such a case , or thing ? but in answer to this , he asks , why are such things express'd to us in this phrase , as , not commanded only ? st . i answer , they are not thus express'd , as , not commanded only . for the things said to be not commanded , are either in their own nature , or in scripture absolutely forbidden ( as i have shewed , and he grants ) and therefore to limit the phrase , as if there was no more intended in it than that the things are not commanded ( as the word only implies ) and not also forbidden is to thwart scripture , as well as my reasoning from it . ly . if we take the phrase as it is , yet there his question , why are they thus express'd , and not commanded ? is of no importance ; for supposing we could give no reason for such an use of it , that would not be sufficient to question the thing , as long as we find it constantly so used and applied . but , ly . was there no reason offer'd , no account given of it ? let him peruse the tract he opposeth , ( as sure he did ) and he will find it expresly undertaken , and two reasons given for it ; as , . things forbidden are called not commanded , because all things prohibited are by consequence not commanded , and not è contra . . it 's by way of meiosis , &c. but these , though to the purpose in hand , were not , i am afraid , to his . well! let us consider , ly . what account our author himself gives at last of this . . saith he , things forbidden in scripture are said to be not commanded , to let us know the doing of a thing not commanded in god's worship , is guilt enough . surely not so great , as to do a thing notoriously forbidden , ( as i there shewed . ) surely it can be no guilt at all to do a thing not commanded , if not also forbidden , because ( as he owns ) there are indifferent things in the worship of god ; and what are indifferent things , but things not commanded , as well as not forbidden ? . he saith , it was so express'd , because the guilt of the sin of idolatry and superstition lay in this , that it was a thing not commanded : had god commanded those things , they had been a true worship , and acceptable . in which assertion of his , he grosly mistakes . first , as to the nature of idolatry and superstition , when he saith , the guilt of them lay in this , that they were things not commanded : whereas it is evident that they were sins , because forbidden . for what is superstition but the dreading of that which is not to be dreaded ? ( as the greek word shews ; ) such as the signs of heaven , divinations , and daemons , and even the unreasonable and inordinate fear of god himself . when we fear offending him , in what is not offensive to him . and what is idolatry but the giving divine honour to that which is not god , or prohibited honour to the true and only god ? these are things manifestly forbidden . secondly , it 's yet a grosser error , which is contained in the reason he gives for it , viz. that had god commanded those things , they had been a true worship and acceptable . an assertion , first , that confounds the nature of things , that makes vice and vertue alike , and no otherwise discriminated but by gods written law , as if idolatry and superstition were not evil antecedent to all revelation , and which are so where revelation is not , as well as where it is . secondly , from hence it follows that those things may be acceptable to god , which in their own nature do tend to drive religion out of the world ; and that may be true worship , which will unavoidably debase the deity in the thoughts of mankind . for so do idolatry and superstition . as for the instances he there takes notice of , i shall reserve them to a more convenient place . conclus . . if things indifferent be such as are neither commanded nor forbidden , and that things are not unlawful because not commanded , then things thus indifferent and not commanded are not additions to the word of god : and the places usually insisted upon must be understood , according to the sence i gave of them ; and which may serve as a sufficient reply to what he hath said upon that head. but yet because he hath offer'd somewhat in a nother place that looks like an argument , i shall here consider it . he argues thus ; if obedience be wanting the salt is wanting to the sacrifices of our god , which ( as we humbly conceive ) leaves no more room for perfective than corruptive additions to divine worship &c. what can be an act of obedience to god but what he hath commanded , whether he hath forbidden it or no ? if we bid our servant go a mile , and he goeth two ( possibly hoping to do us service in it ) we hope his going the second mile is no act of obedience , though we did not forbid him . in matters of this nature no act of supererogation is allowable , because it can be no obedience . in answer to which , it will be necessary to resolve this question : q. whether the doing of any thing in the worship of god without a command be a sinful addition to the word of god ? i answer that if the question is understood of the proper and essential parts of worship ( if i may so speak ) then we grant it , and say , that he that shall institute any thing in that kind without divine institution , doth challenge gods prerogative to himself ; and because the rule is sufficient , all such perfective are corruptive additions ( as he speaks ) to both rule and worship . it is as if a servant when bidden to go a mile , he goeth two ( possibly hoping to do service in it ) for in matters of this nature no supererogation is allowable . thus far his comparison holds , as to matters of the same nature , and design'd to the same end : and esteemed to be of the same use . as the going of two miles for one , with an intent to do as good service , and be as well if not better approv'd for so doing . but if the question be understood of such things as are adjuncts to divine worship , that are not used upon the score of any of the reasons aforesaid , then we are not to expect a command , nor do we sin if we act without it . as for example , a servant is required to go a mile upon some service , and he useth a coat or a cloak , takes an horse or goes on foot , puts a string about his finger to remember him of what he is to do ; or if to carry a message , considers what to say , and writes it down , that he may be the better fitted to deliver it ; in such cases his master would think him impertinent to ask directions , and it 's no disobedience nor supererogation to act , as he sees fit , without them . and this is the case with us , as i shall afterward shew . this said there is way made for the next inference . conclus . . if things indifferent are neither commanded nor forbidden , and things are not unlawful because not commanded , it follows that it 's no derogation from the sufficiency of scripture to maintain the lawfulness of using such things in divine worship , as are not therein commanded . it 's somewhat a specious way of arguing which this author useth , the scriptures have determined whatsoever may make us wise to salvation , perfect , throughly furnished to all good works . now if the worship of god be a good work , and the right doing of it hath any tendency to make us perfect , they must have a sufficiency to direct us in that . and he concludes , if there be not a rule for all things belonging to the worship of god ( except as before excepted , &c. ) then the scriptures are not able to make us wise , &c. by this way of arguing and a challenge he immediately subjoyns , viz. if our author can shew us any act of worship , &c. it may be thought he is a champion for the perfection and sufficiency of scripture , and we the derogators from it . and that without any more ado he would have brought unanswerable arguments for that kind of scripture-sufficiency which we deny . if saith he , our r. author can shew us any act of worship for the performance of which in such a manner as god will accept , we cannot shew him direction of scripture . well! where is it ? scripture , with the addition of such circumstances as are naturally necessary to all humane actions , or evidently convenient for an action of a grave and weighty nature , for the obtaining the ends of it , or appearing to any common judgment to be so decent , that without them the performance would be sordid . scripture with the practice of the first guides of the church ; scripture with the light of nature shining out in every reasonable soul , &c. scripture with the exceptions before excepted , in his book . suppose then we put it to the question , is scripture alone a sufficient rule for matters to be used in the worship of god ? he readily answers , yes . if you take in the nature of the thing , the light shining in every reasonable soul ; if you take in common judgment , convenience , and decency ; lastly if you take in the practice of the first guides of the church ; that is , it is , and it is not . now how he hath all this while pleaded for that sufficiency of scripture which we deny . and why he should so loudly exclaim against all supplements and additions , to that , and against reason and authority , as a supply : or what difference he hath conceived betwixt authority & the guides of the church ; or betwixt reason and the light of nature shining out in every reasonable soul , so as to deny to the one what he grants to the other , i am not able to understand ? yet for all this there must be a difference betwixt him and us , and somewhat shall be said to make it out . for the sufficiency of scripture , is a very great argument . and so indeed it is ; and it has been an old argument against the practices of our church , and is not to be easily parted with : but yet what to give , and what to take , and wherein the difference is betwixt what we hold and he is forced to grant , he knows not , or has not been so kind as to discover . but however when all this is pastover , he concludes as to one part , we cannot possibly agree with our r. brother in this thing , viz. that we have no such particular directions for worship under the gospel as they had under the law ▪ ) this indeed i touched upon , to shew that the faithfulness of christ and sufficiency of scripture consist not in giving as particular directions for worship as they had under the law ; and in proof of this i set baptism against circumcision , the lord's supper against the passover , and prayers against sacrifices . now let us consider , what are the reasons why he cannot possibly agree ? certainly if ever controversie was like to be ended , we may now expect it because it 's about plain matter of fact. but in this case he strangely fa●ls of performance : for whereas the deciding the case depends upon the comparison betwixt the law and the gospel , he doth not so much as offer any thing about the latter . but let us consider what he saith of the former , and as much as we can , make up his defect in the latter . first , he saith , as to circumcision , what particular direction had the jews ? their rule extended no further than to the act and the time . here i must confess there is nothing but the time that is determined ; but since there is nothing of that kind in baptism prescribed , the law is herein more particular than the gospel . ly , as to the passover , he acknowledges they had a rule , but then he adds ▪ what rule , had they to determine them to a kid or a lamb ? but was not that a rule to determine them , when it must be a kid or a lamb , and no other creature ; and is not two to all the beasts in the world a determination as well as one to two ? but was there nothing else determined ? ( as his cautious way of expressing it would imply ) let him consult the text , and he will find that the creature was not only thus to be one out of two , but it was to be a male , kept the th day , and to be killed at even , without a bone broken , to be roasted , to be eaten in the house , and with unleavened bread with bitter herbs , and none left to the morning . and they were to eat it standing ( as our author acknowledges p. . ) with their loyns girt , &c. and with several other rites too long to enumerate . but in the lord's supper , there is nothing specified or required but the elements , and the breaking and pouring out ; nothing said of the kind of the bread or wine , nothing required of the time or posture , or number , &c. as for their sacrifices , he saith , the rule was sufficient and perfect , we hope , though one jew brought a bullock , another a goat , &c. i may confidently say it was not sufficient if so they did , for god was pleas'd to require more ( who is the most competent judge of the perfection of his own law ) for there was a particular prescription not only as to the kinds of the beasts , but as to the disposing and ordering of them in sacrifice , what was to be eaten , and what not ; whether the bloud should be poured out or sprinkled , whether upon the altar or at the bottom of it , &c , one would think that a person that talks so loosely of these things , had never read the book of leviticus . but now as to prayers in the christian church , we have only a general form given us and direction to pray in the name of christ , but nothing as to words , time , posture , company , &c. so that what can be more manifest then that there is no such particular direction given in worship , as they had under the law ? and therefore however it comes to pass that this author hath here so bewildre'd himself , yet it 's what he hath granted before , when he was fain to make exceptions , as to things naturally necessary , &c and of which he saith in the beginning of this argument , that for such it is impossible there should be a rule ; though there , i conceive , he hath as much erred on one side as he did before on the other , when he saith it's impossible ; for then it had not been possible to assign time , posture , place , &c , under the law. had he said in some not possible , in others not fit , he had been much more in the right : however ( to let that pass ) in either way he grants that there is no expectation of scripture-authority for such things , nor doth the sufficiency of that or the faithfulness of christ suffer by such an opinion . i suppose i may now close this argument : for , as for his or 's and , alias's ( which this author so much depends upon ) i shall consider them in another place . conclus . . if things indifferent are neither commanded nor forbidden ; and things are not unlawful because not commanded , then the doing of such things as are not commanded is not contrary to the second commandment ; the contrary to this is maintained by our author , who saith , that the doing of such things in acts of external worship as are not commanded , is indeed a violation of the second commandment . for which he offers this reason , because as in the th commandment it is agreed , that all injuries to our neighbour's person is forbidden under the highest species of such acts : and in the th all species of uncleanness are ; so in the d commandment all errors in the matter of external worship are forbidden under the species of idolatry . the answer to this depends upon the understanding of his phrase , matter of worship , ( which he hath given us no light in ) which either signifies parts of worship , and then we yield it , that all such instituted by men are forbidden in this commandment , for it 's false worship : but then we deny that we are concern'd in it , or that any thing not commanded and used by us is a part of worship . and if he thinks otherwise he is ( as upon other reasons also ) concern'd to take up the cause of dr. ames that he saith , he is not concern'd in . if by matter of worship he means the administration and ordering of it , then i deny the parallel , that all errors in matter of worship areas much forbidden in the second commandment , as injuries by the th , &c. for injuries are of the same species with murder , and acts of uncleanness are of the same kind with adultery ; but errors in the administration of worship are nothing akin to idolatry . . i deny that the doing of things not commanded in the matter of worship are so much as errors in his sence , since forbidden by no law , as i have shewed . the second point undertaken in the case of indifferent things was to shew , that there are things indifferent in the worship of god , and that such things , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in it . of this , saith our reverend author , none ( that we know of ) ever doubted ; and again , as it 's stated in that tract , none in his wits did ever deny it . i do not think my self obliged to answer for some mens understandings ; but if that be true , what must we think of those whom mr. baxter writes of , that will have a rule for every thing ; and adds , take heed of them ? what of such , that when they grant things indifferent to be neither commanded nor forbidden , will yet say , that things not commanded are forbidden ? what of such , that when they have granted ( and so it 's then granted on both sides ) that there are things indifferent in the worship of god , will yet say , that the indifferency of actions to be done while they are employ'd in the worship of god is all the question ? lastly , what of those that when they have yielded that things indifferent , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in divine worship , will have it put to the question , whether things not necessary to all human actions may be used in it ? who they are , or how far they are concerned in the foregoing character , i leave to this reverend persons consideration . but although none in his wits did ever deny the question as stated by me , yet because it may be of use toward the clearing of the matters hereafter to be discoursed of , i will briefly consider the case as it was then stated and that will appear from the things considered in the state of it , and the ways taken to prove it . . it was granted that things naturally necessary to the action were excluded ; since generals act but in their particulars ; and if some of the kind must accompany the act , then this or that particular of the kind is lawful to be used , as it is in time place , habit . this he grants , but only adds , that habit surely is not necessary , we read of none before the fig-leaves were sown together , gen. . but ( . ) we indeed read of no habit before the fall , but is there nothing natural to man since the fall ? what doth our author think of the apostle's natural body , &c as opposed to heavenly , or of the description he gives of the state of mankind , when he saith , we are by nature children of wrath : we read of no such body or state before the time of the fig-leaves . and yet the apostle makes bold to call them natural , as belonging to man in his present fallen state. ( . ) therefore we have a further notion of natural given us , and that is when any thing is suted to the nature or state of the thing or person . thus ames and others tell us of natural ceremonies , as lifting up the eyes to heaven in sign of devotion , ( which by the way is not so natural ; but that casting them down in worship is a sign of it too , as in the publicans . ) and so habit is natural to man , as belonging and suted to his present condition . but , saith he , it is not natural , for a person may pray naked ; and so he may pray blindfold , and yet will any one say , sight is not natural to man. but how may he pray naked in regious assemblies ( for we are speaking of publick worship ) can he say it 's sutable to the solemnity ? and so going naked is as little sutable to the nature of man. ( . ) again that 's natural , which is the effect of nature , though not born with us . and i am apt to think that did our author live within the circle of the frigid zone , he would without any tutor , without the knowledge of what is the custom of civilized nations , without any moral reason , have thought upon the benefit of frieze , or somewhat of the like use with that . but suppose i am mistaken , how hath he mended the matter ? he tells us , that by the custom of civilized nations some habit is necessary . but then what becomes of the fig-leaves , what of the coats of skins god clothed adam with . now to say it came from custom before custom was , ( for it was in the beginning ) i think , is much more absurd than to say that habit was natural . but it 's time to pass on to a more profitable argument . . it was proved that all things , which in general and for kind are morally necessary are also lawful in their particulars . this was made evident from a parity of reason 'twixt what is naturally , and what is morally necessary , and therefore he that grants the particulars of what is naturally necessary , to be indifferent , must also grant the particulars of what is morally necessary to be indifferent . and as it follows this time or that , this place or that , this habit or that is lawful and indifferent , because time , place and habit are necessary : so it also follows this method or that , this form or that , this order or that is lawful , and may be used , because method , form , and order are necessary . and therefore we need look no more for an institution for a form , than , as he saith for a bell to call to worship , or for a gown or cloak to preach in , &c. for what naturally necessary is to the particulars of its kind , that is morally necessary to its particulars : and one is no more unlawful for want of an institution or command , than the other . this our author also yields to , we , saith he , having agreed that there are some circumstances of humane actions , in gods worship , not only natural , common to all actions , but of a moral nature too , relating to them as such actions , which god having neither commanded nor forbidden , may be used , are not much concerned , in what our author saith upon his second head. . it was further shewed in the aforesaid treatise , that such things in divine worship as were agreeable to the rules of the apostle , and served for order , decency , and edification , were also lawful , though they were neither naturally nor morally necessary ; nor did necessarily arise from the nature of the thing , as method and form , &c. do ; that is , that there are a certain sort of things that are ambulatory and contingent , that vary with circumstances , ages , places , and conditions , &c. as , the being cover'd or uncover'd in worship ; such and such fixed hours of prayer ; the love-feasts , and holy-kiss , and besides , several civil usages transferr'd from secular affairs into the service of religion ; which were used therein not as meer civil rites ; as i there shewed . this argument taken from civil usages our author endeavours to avoid several ways . . he saith , if we do not mistake , the reason why dr. ames and others do think that civil usages may be used in acts of worship , is because they are either necessary to the action , as humane , or convenient , comely or grave , &c. and because i had said * that if the being civil usages did make them lawful in divine worship , then there is nothing in civil cases but may be introduced into the church , though never so absurd , he saith , he cannot apprehend the consequence , because what is granted about civil usages is to be applied to grave actions and none other . but to this i answer , grant they are thus to be understood of such civil usages as are grave , yet then it is not so much because they are civil as because they are grave , that they may be used , and provided that they were grave , they might be used if they were not civil , as well as if they were , and are not the sooner to be used , because they are civil . and then what becomes of their argument for such and such practices and customs that they were civil ? and what have they got when to avoid the force of what we say from the love-feasts , &c. plead , as he doth , that they are civil usages . so that when he and his brethren grant , that such usages which may ordinarily be used in other humane actions of a grave nature , may be used in acts of worship ( which is more than we dare say ; for then standing crosses may be introduced into worship , which are used to very grave purposes in civil matters , as to distinguish christian from heathenish or turkish dominions , &c. ) i know not what they can deny . . he gives a very partial account of civil usages , when he tells us of orators pulpits , and seats , and bells , gowns and cloaks : but in the mean while forgets that there are civil usages , that are of a ceremonial nature , and that are used by way of signification , distinction , &c. as now a garment is ( i may still say ) naturally or ( as he will have it ) morally necessary , but when in a particular case it 's required that it be white or purple , it 's a civil usage , and is by way of signification ; and so the signification is transferr'd with it from a civil to a sacred use , which how consistent it is with their principles i leave it to his consideration . . he takes no notice of the argument used by me , that if civil usages without institution may be lawfully used in divine worship , this ( with his concessions before about natural and moral circumstances ) will justifie most , i had almost said , all the practices of our church , as i instanced in the surplice , since white was used as a badge of royalty and dignity , of joy and innocency , in civil cases , and so may be used by way of signification in religious ; and so of the rest . all that he hath to say about the surplice is , that it 's tied to worship , which is remote from the case in hand , and shall afterward be considered . to this i may also add the cross ▪ which he saith , they do not stumble of making upon a pack of cloth or stuff , or upon a sheep for note of distinction , and may be , and is used for graver purposes in the like way of signification in civil matters as i have observ'd ) and so may be , by this argument transfer'd into the service of religion . . it was further maintain'd in the stating of the case , that the ordering and administration of the things relating to divine worship , was left to christian prudence . to this our author saith , it is very true , these must be determined by human prudence , but that they must necessarily be determined by the prudence of the superiour , and may not be determined by the prudence of the agents , is another question . who ever affirmed it ? that they are left to human prudence to fix and determin , is all that i maintain'd ; but how far superiours may determin , and how far inferiours must submit to things so determin'd , is another question , and belongs to another place . from what hath been said , it may appear whether no man ever doubted of the truth of the case as i have stated it , when he himself speaks so dubiously and uncertainly about it . but because i have not stated it to his mind , and that it 's not the dissenters position , but only a position , which their adversaries have imposed upon them without any ground , as he saith ; let us see how he states the question , which is thus : q. whether things , the doing , or not doing of which god hath not prescribed , being neither necessary to the action as an human action , nor convenient for it ( with reference to those that perform it ) for the ends of it , nor naturally , nor in common judgment such , without which it cannot be done decently , may be lawfully used in the worship of god by all persons , or by any persons , who judge that god hath forbidden the part to which they are by men determined , either in the letter , or by the just reason , and consequence of holy writ , as forbidding all useless and superfluous things , in so sacred actions , or things not necessary , and used ordinarily in idolatrous and superstitious services , or judging that in worship every man is sui juris , and ought not to be deprived of the liberty god hath left him , may be universally and lawfully used ? this he hath elsewhere formed into a position , and from thence doth declare , that it lies upon his adversary to prove , that those things which he would have all dissenters conform to are , . things naturally necessary to all human acts. or , . things convenient for them as human acts . or , with reference to the true end of such acts : or , . such as nature shews to be comely for all human acts , or such grave acts at least , or which common judgment so judgeth . or , . that men may do what they reasonably judge sinful . or , . that there is no reason to judge useless , and superfluous actions in the worship of god sinful . or , . no reason so to judge of the things not necessary to be used in gods worship , and which have been , and are ordinarily used in idolatrous worship . or , . that there is no reason to judge , that christians in matters of worship ought to be left at liberty in things when god hath so left them . whether this be indeed the dissenters position he best understands ( as i should think but whether it be their position explained , ( as he saith ) or confounded , i leave to the judgment of others . this only i am sure of , that for as much as i can understand of it , i may turn his own words upon him , and whereas he saith of the case as i have stated it , none in his wits did ever deny it , i can say as it 's stated by him , none in his wits did ever affirm it . for who in his wits will ever affirm that it 's lawful to use such things in the worship of god , that are sordid and indecent , disorderly and confused , idle , useless , and superfluous , hurtful and pernicious ? and yet ( according to him ) this must he do , that will undertake to prove , that things that are not comely , convenient , or edifying , may be admitted thereinto . for this author tells us , that by decency we can understand nothing but what is oppos'd to sordidly , &c. and if it be not decent by his rule , it must be sordid : and so of the rest . again , who in his wits will affirm that men may do what they reasonably judge sinful ? and yet these things must they affirm that will attack this position of our authors : by which stating of the question and mingling things of a different nature together , he hath provided well for his own security , and may without fear of being conquer'd , or so much as oppos'd , fling down the gantlet , with , if our r. author hath taken the position , as here stated , and argued it , we shall consider what he hath said ; if not , we shall lightly pass over what he hath said , &c. and expect till he hath justified all or any of the last seven mentioned particulars . but i shall not so lightly pass over what he hath said without clearing what may be cleared , and reducing the case into its proper principles , though it be what he hath taken no care to explain or prove . if we review his seven particulars , we shall find that the a th . and th . b belong not to this case , and are otherwhere resolved : and of the five remaining four of them are reducible to one argument , which come now to be considered ; and the last of christian liberty , i shall treat upon in the close of this discourse . in treating upon the four that belong to one argument and have for their subject human acts ; i think it may be done by putting and resolving the following question . q. what is it that doth make things in themselves lawful and indifferent , to be unlawful in divine worship ? this is the main seat of the controversie ; it being agreed that there are indifferent things in the worship of god ; but since we afterward divide upon it and say that notwithstanding this there are some things of that nature , that are by circumstance unlawful , it is sit to understand , how this question is resolved by one and the other . if we state the case , we say the rules we are to guide our selves by , are those of the apostle , of decency , order , and edification . and we trouble not our selves nicely to consider whether the decency arise from the nature of the thing , or from common usage , or prescription , or institution , since we think that decency may arise from any , and it matters not from what cause the thing proceeds , nor how it came to be decent , when it 's now thought and found to be so . and as little curious arewe about the first reasons of order and edification , for we are so little speculative in matters of practice , that we think the peace of the church , and unity amongst christians , are much more fit to determine us in these cases than all the accuracy in metaphysicks . so that if a thing be found to be decent , orderly and for edification , though we were assur'd it did spring from humane institution , we think it to be lawful , and that humane institution cannot make that unlawful ; which is found by use and experience to be for decency and order . again we think that those things which in kind are necessary to humane acts in all cases , and comely and grave in worship as well as out of it , may be appropriated to worship : and that the appropriation of places , time and habit to worship , doth not therefore make such places , times , and habits , unlawful to be used . and if things indifferent in themselves are unlawful in worship , we conclude it must be when divine institution is pretended for what is humane , and when the things sute not the nature , or defeat the ends of divine worship ; or for the like reasons which i in the controverted tract did insist upon . but now on the contrary , by what may be collected from him , it appears to be the sence of his position , . that nothing of humane institution is to be admitted or may lawfully be used in divine worship . for thus he saith , they must be things necessary to all humane acts , or convenient for them as humane acts , or comely for all humane acts , &c. . that nothing , though nccessary , or convenient , or comely , ought to be used in , and much less be appropriated to the worship of god ; for they are to be considered in worship only as they have a reference to such humane acts. in the consideration of these i shall . consider how he attempts to prove it . . endeavour to discover the mistake ; and vindicate the arguments and instances , produced in the case of indifferent things to the contrary , from his exceptions . these are the chief things that all his discourse is founded upon , and that are scattered through it : but though they are rather supposed than proved by him ; and therefore ( to use his own words ) i may lightly pass them over , and expect till he hath justified them : yet because i would make somewhat of it , i shall collect from the hints he gives , what it is that he doth think may be said for them . as for the first of these , that nothing is to be used in divine worship that is meerly of humane institution , his arguments are fetched from the nature of the things pleaded for them , viz. decency , order , edification . as , saith he , . we cannot apprehend it in the power of man to create a decency . the greatest emperors wearing an antick habit , would not make it decent , till it could prescribe , or had obtained a common consent . this i the rather mention , because it is an argument much in vogue amongst those that would artificially handle this matter . but here let me ask them what it is creates a decency ? he saith , the law of nature and prescription , common consent and the guise of countries . but how began that prescription , whence arose that consent whether from chance or institution ? or what is it whence it ariseth , if it be found to be decent ? certainly if it began in one of these institution is the more noble of the two , and the less disputable : and then it would be hard to conceive how that which came by chance should be lawful , and that which came by institution should be unlawful . but ( . ) if prescription , and common consent , and the guise of countreys be the measure of decency , may not these things also be the measure of it in the church , and in things relating to divine worship ? and is not the custom of the churches of god a reason as sufficient to conclude us in this matter as the grave and civil customs of a nation ? or ( . ) is there any church on this side rome that by a sic volo doth stamp a decency upon its institutions , without respect to prescription and the custom of churches ? or that can do it ? by his way of expressing himself , he would make the argument great , as if to create a decency was an invasion of god's prerogative ; we cannot apprehend it in the power of man to create a decency . the greatest emperor , &c. but if a decency arise from the guise of countrys , and prescription , and common consent , it might be questioned , whether according to him , god himself can then create a decency , and by his authority make that to be at once which requires time and custom ( as he saith ) to produce and form it ? so high doth the power of a little school-subtilty and imagination sometimes transport men , that their arguments vanish out of sight , and are lost to all those that converse with what is gross and tangible . but supposing it is not in the power of man to create a decency , yet order may be order without those dilatory reasons of custom and prescription ; and therefore what holds against establishing decency by institution , will not hinder but that order may be thereby established . therefore , . he further argues from the nature of decency and order , that things of meer humane institution are not capable of that plea. we can understand , saith he , nothing , by orderly , and according to order , but without confusion . by decency we can understand nothing but what is opposed to sordidly ; nor can we think of any action that is not decent , if the contrary to it be not indecent . so then nothing ought to be done in the worship of god , but what may be done without confusion , &c. of which nature can nothing be that is idle and superfluous , &c. i was at a great loss at first to find out the drist of all this , but upon consideration i think it contains these things : ( . ) that it is unlawful to ordain or use any thing superfluous in the worship of god. ( . ) that whatsoever is not for order , decency and edification is superfluous . ( . ) that nothing is decent , if the contrary to it be not indecent . it 's the last of these we are now concerned in ; which by the help of the great managers of this argument , may be better understood . and it amounts to this , that decency and indecency are contraries ( rather privatives saith jeans ) and if one of them be not indecent , the other cannot be decent : and if the action may be performed decently without what is called decent , then that which we call so is not decent . as suppose it 's pleaded that a surplice is decent , but if the contrary be not indecent , and the service may be performed decently without it , then that vestment is not decent . in answer to which i shall not concern my self in a tedious and nice dispute about the nature of contrarieties and privatives , but readily grant the opposition which they insist upon betwixt decent and indecent ; and yet notwithstanding shall make bold to deny the whole they infer from it : and that for this reason , because our dispute is not about the nature of decency and indecency , but about things decent and indecent : and although decency and indecency be opposed as above said , yet it is not so in the things controverted , but that things different may be both of them , decent . as for example , he grants that it 's comely and grave to preach in a gown , and that they look therefore for no institution ; but now by this way of arguing it could not be so : for if a person may preach decently without a gown , then it cannot be decent to preach with it , because decency and indecency are contraries , and if the contrary be not indecent , ( as it is not to preach without it , must he say , ) then to preach with it is not decent . so again , what decency is to indecency , that is reverence to irreverence : but , he saith , that kneeling at the sacrament is decent , ( for saith he , no dissenter refuseth to receive the sacrament kneeling because it is not decent ) and reverent . but it can be neither of these by his argument , for they also affirm that it may be decently and reverently received , though they do not kneel ; and therefore the contrary to kneeling being not indecent , kneeling cannot be decent . and thus i might run on in infinitum ; and the like may be argued from the account he gives of order . the ground of his and the others mistake is , that they argue from the kind to the individuals of the kind , as if one individual was as much opposite to the other as kind to kind , whereas the individuals are mutable things , which the guise of countrys , and custom , &c. alter ; and two things different in use or figure , or the like , may be both of them decent , as to wear a cloak or a coat in secular business ; a cloak , gown , or surplice in religious solemnities , ( according as the custom is . ) therefore the brethren at the savoy let this curious 〈…〉 , and grant , there are some things decent and orderly , when the opposite species is not undecent or disorderly . and a greater than they said it was comely , with respect to the then state of the church , not to marry , and yet without doubt it was not thought uncomely to marry too ; which yet the apostle could not have said , if our authors way of arguing had been of any force . after all this pert discourse against things instituted we are little concern'd , not only because there is nothing like things meerly instituted by men in our church except the cross , ( which lay-communion is not concerned in ) but also because even that and all things that can be forced to look this way are not now instituting , but are received as having been so long before , and are not the subject matter of institution , but of civil and ecclesiastical command betwixt which there is a vast difference , as , mr. jeans rightly observes ; there is difference 'twixt institution , and commandment or appointment ; for though every institution be a commandment or appointment , yet every commandment or appointment is not an institution . and hence a church in a place may command and appoint the uniform observance of ceremonies , instituted unto its hand by the church in former ages . as for such particular things as were owing to meer institution ( which i produced in the above said tract ) in respect of their use and signification , i shall keep them in my eye , though i lay them a●ide for the present to come to his next head . nothing , though necessary , or convenient , or comely , ought to be used in , and much less appropriated to the worship of god ; being all such things are to be considered therein only as they have a reference to humane acts . this he asserts not only in the propositions which he draws from his general position , but also elsewhere ; so he saith , that they comply with meer necessary , or convenient circumstances either of actions , or such or such actions , considered abstractly from any religion . and therefore he concludes . . they must not be used in religious worship . so he saith , those who stumble at the surplice ( as not many do ) or the cross , or kneeling at the eucharist , scruple to do it in an act of worship . so again , the minister must wear his surplice in his acts of worship , and sign with the cross within the complex act of worship , ( for he after it with prayers concludes the action . ) the people must kneel in the act of receiving . what then ? why then they are unlawful now how the things that are necessary in general ( as posture , habit , &c. ) can be used without particulars , or how those particulars can be used in worship lawfully , and yet be unlawful , because used in worship , i understand not . for then sitting would be unlawful , if alike required , and a gown be unlawful , and the ring in marriage unlawful , and the laying the hand on the book unlawful , ( at the former of which is a prayer annexed , and at the latter it is implied , ) and all civil usages in worship would be unlawful : and then what will become of what he hath elsewhere said ? dr. ames and others do think that such usages which may ordinarily be used in other humane actions of a grave nature , may be used in acts of worship ; and being so used are no more than appendants to the action , &c. but being sensible that this will not do , and that unless he can make the being used in worship to be the same with worship , to be an act or a part of it , he cannot make it unlawful , and that if he should attempt it , 〈…〉 to disparage the cause , 〈…〉 . that which is appropriated to worship is unlawful . some of them cannot but look for an institution for a garment [ meaning the surplice ] which they must be tied to use in the worship of god , and restrained from the wearing of at other times . now because this would open a gap too wide for him to stand in , and would condemn places , as well as habits , and make it as unlawful to use a church as a surplice , he therefore cautiously begins it with some of them : but yet however he gives us a reason for it , viz. because the appropriation of it to the religious act , speaks something of religion and homage to god in it . elsewhere he expresseth himself after the like manner , we think they ( civil usages ) must not have any thing of the nature of worship in them , but may as well be used in meerly civil actions , as in religious duties . if there be any thing of homage to god in them they are worship which must have an institution . but , first , what doth he mean by appropriation , doth he thereby understand that what is for the present appropriated to a religious use and service cannot be omited , nor altered , nor upon any reason whatsoever be applied to any other use ? this our church doth not hold . a is it that out of a reverence to divine ordinances , it is not fit that the things used in or at divine worship be prostituted to vulgar use , that what are churches for an hour or two on the lord's day be not stables all the week after ; nor the tables and plate used in the lord 's super , be employd , in the service of the taverns ? this we agree to , and think our selves well able to defend against any arguments we have yet seen to the contrary . ly . doth appropriation necessarily imploy homage to god ; may not things be thus separated , for order and uniformity , for gravity and decency , for reverence and respect to the solemnities of religion ? and may not this reverence and respect we shew to the solemnities of religion , and the devotion we shew in external worship redound to god himself ? indeed what are all the outward acts of reverence but expressing of homage , veneration and adoration to god ? i do not think the holy psalmist forgot himself when he said , come let us worship , and fall down , and kneel before the lord our maker : or that our author himself said amiss , when he maintains , that nature teacheth us to worship god in the most decent manner we can . for though adoration be to be given to god alone , yet reverence ( as our author distinguisheth ) is due to all things relating to him , and to that worship we pay to him : and as there are several acts of worship due to god ; so there are some things due to his worship , by which his honour is advanced and devotion furthered . but for this i refer him to what was said otherwhere , which he was pleased to take no notice of . but to bring all to an issue i shall now consider the several arguments , and instances i produced to prove that things indifferent , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in divine worship . this i proved from the old testament and new , from the practice of the primitive and modern churches , and from their own concessions . . the instances i chose to give from the old testament were david's temple , the feast of purim , and the synagogal worship : to these he answers at once , that they are answered long since by dr. ames in his fresh suit. and perhaps may be answered by him after the manner he defended the objection taken from the second commandment , which our author himself gives up : but if his arguments are of force , i suppose , we shall find it in our author . and he first begins with davids temple , of which he saith , david indeed design'd a temple for god without a command , but god checked him for it for this very reason , . sam. . . and though he approved his generally good intention , yet he restrained him as to his act , as may be seen in that chap. this being matter of fact the text must determine it , and from thence i observe . . that god had at no time given a command concerning building a temple . so in the text quoted , in all the places with all the children of israel spake i a word with any of the tribes , &c. saying , why build ye not me an house of cedars ? . david in designing it went upon rational grounds ( . ) as god had given him rest , and so it became him to do it in point of gratitude , and because he had an opportunity for it . ( . ) from comparing his own house with god's , see now i dwell in an house of cedar , but the ark of god dwelleth within curtains . . it was no rash act , for it seems he had at that time made ready for the building , having it a long time before in his thoughts . or this see dr. lightfoot , temple c. . . from all which i infer , that neither david in designing , nor nathan in approving what he design'd , thought it absolutely unlawful to do what was not commanded in the worship of god , or that what was not commanded was forbidden . this must be granted by our author , that saith , god approved his generally good intention , now what was his intention generally but to do somewhat in honour to god , and for the solemnity of his worship ? thus much mr. pool doth yield , the design being pious , and the thing not forbidden by god , nathan hastily approves it . now if he approved it because not forbidden by god , then they did not think that what was not commanded , was forbidden ; nor doth that of our author appear to be reasonable , that god checked him for it , because it was without a command . ly . supposing that particular act condemned , yet it is not reasonable to suppose it to be for the general reason , given by our author , that nothing must be done without a command , but because in a matter of that consequence , the prophet did not advise about it , and that he did too hastily approve it , as mr. pool saith . but , ly . it 's evident that the particular act was not condemned . . because god commended him for it , thou didst well a . so mr. hildersham , though the lord would not let david build him an house , yet he commends his affection for it , &c. b . god rewarded him for it , for upon it it was promised , c he will make thee an house . so mr. pool , for thy good intentions to make him an house , he will build thee an house . . he presently gave order upon it for the building such an house ; and as a mark of approbation , and a further reward of david's good intention , did both reveal what he would have built , and how d ; and appoint his immediate successor for the building of it e . . though god did deny this privilege to david , yet it was not without giving him good reason for it , and that was ( . ) because things were not setled . so it was before with the tribes , therefore god saith he walked with them f : and so it was with david , for though he had at that time rest , ( which was about the th , or at most the th , of his reign ; ) yet it was far from a settled peace , and therefore mr. pool reads it as the margin , v. . i will cause thee to rest . ( . ) it was not fit for david , because he had been a man of war , and shed much blood . g now in opposition to this ( . ) god saith , i will ordain a place for israel , and plant them , &c. h ( . ) of solomon , he saith , he shall be a man of rest , and i will give him peace i . so that it appears that it was not unlawful for david to design a temple nor unacceptable to god that he did design it , but it was deferr'd for the reasons before given , and because it was unseasonable . now because the author has referr'd me to ames , i will send him back thither , and let him see whether he has answered all this or no. as for the feast of purim , this reverend person saith , it lieth upon our author to prove , the feast of purim was kept as a religious feast . there is no order for any religious acts to be performed in it . if it were , it was generally commanded under the precepts of giving thanks for publick mercies . i shall therefore undertake to prove it a religious feast . but before i proceed i shall . observe , that the lawfulness of religious feasts and fasts admit of the same general proof , and if i prove one i prove the other . . i observe that the jews did think it lawful to institute religious feasts and fasts , both occasional and anniversary . of the latter sort ( which is the matter in dispute ) were the fasts of the th , th and th months , instituted in the time of the captivity a . such was the feast of dedication instituted by the jews in the time of the maccabees b , and kept to the time of our saviour c , nay to this very day amongst them d . and so mordecai and esther did establish this feast of purim , and the jews took upon themselves to keep it e . now that it was a religious feast will appear , . as it was a day of thanksgiving to god for that great deliverance . thus it 's called a day of gladness , a good day f , which mr. pool thus paraphraseth , a time of feasting , rejoycing and thanksgiving g . this further appears from the reason given for the celebration of it . it was , saith the text , that the memorial of their deliverance should not perish : or as mr. pool , because they had seen and felt this wonderful work of god on their behalf . h it appear'd further from the circumstances of it , it 's said they sent portions one to another , and gifts to the poor . i which , saith pool , they used to give upon days of thanksgiving , of which see neh. . . and i may add , that it is impossible to conceive that persons of such signal piety as mordecai and esther , should institute , and under the present sense of such a deliverance , as the jews were , should observe this feast , only as a day of civil joy , without respect to god that wonderfully brought it about . . it was as much a religious feast , as their fast was a religious fast ; so the text makes them parallel , they confirmed these days of purim , &c. as they had decreed for themselves & for their seed the matters of the fastings & their cry . k but what their fasting was , the nature of the thing , as well as the cry here spoken of doth declare . so to go ye and fast , pool adds , and pray , which was the main business , to which fasting was only an help . l but our author saith ; there is no order for any religious acts to be performed in it . as if they did not know what became them to do upon such a gracious and wonderful deliverance . but we read of no order for such acts on their days of fasting , were they not therefore religious ? nay we read not of the name of god in the whole book , or or any duty to him plainly expressed , and shall we therefore esteem it not to be religious and canonical ? but saith our author , if it were a religious feast , it was generally commanded under the precepts of giving thanks . and i desire no more : for in one breath he hath yielded all . so that now we have gained , that fixed and anniversary festival days set apart for commemoration of god's mercies to us , are not only lawful , but what we have a command for . and thence it follows , that a church hath power to determine them , as they did . and further that things not commanded may be used in divine worship . the next thing is the synagogal worship . to this he replyes , the worshipping of god in synagogues wanted no special command ; being but a circumstance convenient , if not necessary to publick worship considered as an humane act. a multitude of people could not meet to worship god together without a fit place . but first why did not synagogues want a special command as well as the temple which he contends for ? ) for , which is worse , to build a more convenient place for one already instituted , a temple for a tabernacle ; or to build places for which they had ( as he yields ) no special command , as the synagogues ? but suppose they needed not a command for synagogues , because a multitude could not meet together without a fit place ; yet how will that be a reason that the worshipping in synagogues wanted it not ? that place is a circumstance convenient , and that synagogues were fit places for a multitude of people to worship in , we grant ; and we will grant that this may be a reason to justify the building and using such places without a special command ; yet what is that to the worship so and so ordered in those places ? what is that to days and hours , which the scripture speaks of , and he contends against ? what is this to the forms used in their service , which the jews do write of ? , if these are not to be justified though they wanted a special command , how was it that our blessed saviour and his apostles did not only frequent the places , but the service , as our saviour's customary preaching in them doth shew ? what is this to the ritual observations our saviour complied with , such as the passover cup , and their posture at it , which he shewed his approbation of in his taking the materials of his last supper from the rites used in the passover , as learned men have observed ; of which casaubon saith , hoc primum observare juvat , quomodo filius dei umbras legis ad veritatem traduxerit . this he will by no means hear of , and therefore useth several evasions ( for they are no better ) . thus when it 's recorded that our saviour told the disciples , with desire have i desired to eat this passover with you before i suffer : and in prosecution of it , that he took the cup , and gave thanks , and said , divide it among your selves , for i will not drink of the fruit of the vine , &c. he irreverently represents it as if it was no more than if he drunk only to satisfie nature . for so he saith ; before christ did eat the paschal supper , he drank a cup of wine , and doubtless at it he drank also , though it be not recorded . people need no institution to drink while they are eating . as if the evangelist had no more to do than to tell us christ drank a cup of wine with his meat . surely there is a better account to be given of this matter ; the text it self shews it . and the jewish authors and others that write of their customs , do sufficiently inform us . in which he must be very ignorant or incredulous , that will say ( as he doth ) that no more is signified by it than that every one might drink as his appetite required ; and no less irreverent that can think that what is recorded of our saviour's taking the cup , and blessing , and drinking in the passover , was only to serve that end . the next thing i insisted upon was our saviour's compliance with them in the posture us'd by them at the passover , contrary ( as he owns ) to what was used at the first institution . of this , he saith , our saviour used the jewish posture in eating the passover , a being a posture no where , that we know of , used by idolaters , nor being any posture of adoration , but their ordinary posture of eating meat . . he saith , that every one might use the posture which was most convenient for the nature of the action : and that he doth not see any reason to conclude they would have shut out any that because of the institution desired to eat it with his loyns girt , &c. . that , if they did use any uniform posture , yet it was because they agreed it among themselves . in all which there is hardly any thing said but is full of mistake . as , . he saith , the posture used by our saviour was no where , that he knows of , used by idolaters , nor was a posture of adoration . i cannot tell how far our author's learning may extend in this matter , but that the posture of discumbing was used at festival solemnities from ancient times , by the grecians , medes , persians , indians , romans , and jews , &c. and from thence translated to their sacrifical feasts , which the heathens did very anciently observe a , is sufficiently known b insomuch that the whole solemnity was call'd amongst the romans lectisternium c . this is confirm'd by scripture . so amos. . . they lay themselves down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar , &c. that is , the beds which they used in the temples of their gods , saith casaubon , d from the jews : so ezek. . . for satisfaction in which i refer this reverend author to others e . and whereas he saith this was no posture of adoration , he must needs be mistaken , if he grants what they did in those solemnities in honour to their gods to be adoration . and this they did , for it was an entertainment made for them , the heathens conceiving that the gods did then feast with them ; hence the poets phrase of f ornare pulvinar deorum dapibus . so the apostle calls their table , the table of devils ? g and their lying down there an having fellowship with devils . h having said thus much , i shall not need to proceed , and shew how sitting , as well as discumbing , hath been also used in idolatrous service , both amongst heathens of old and romanists now , especially since i have it sufficiently proved to my hands in a book i suppose our author well acquainted with . as for what he further saith , if the jews did use one uniform posture , &c. there needs not many words to shew how precarious or false it is . for what more precarious than to speak doubtfully ( if they did ) of that which yet is clearly evident they did observe ? or affirm , that if they did , it was because they agreed it among themselves , which is to suppose the reason of the thing to be certain , when the thing it self according to him is uncertain ? or what more false since whether it was by agreement among themselves , or by the authority of the church , that there was this uniformity of posture is not so certain , as it is that there was this uniformity , and that they were universally obliged to use and observe it ? for it was required that discumbiture should be used in all religious feasts , but especially at the passover by all without exception in the first part of the solemnity . for which i refer our author to one well-versed in these matters . so little truth , or certainty is there in what our author asserts , that every one might use the posture which was most convenient ; and that there was no reason to conclude they would have shut out any from their paschal societies that desired to eat it with his loyns girt , &c. or standing . the next instance produced in the abovesaid case of indifferent things , and objected against by our author , is the hours of prayer , which were observ'd amongst the jews , at morning , noon , and evening . act. . c. . . c. . . of these our author gives this account : thus the apostles used the hours of prayer , which also they might have changed , if they had pleased . that the jews sent any to goals , or excommunicated any for not keeping to those hours we do not find . there is nothing of religion in the time , more then in any other part of time . thus st. paul used circumcision and purification . thus : how is that ? did the apostles use the hours of prayer onely as necessary circumstances of humane actions , or such without which the light of nature , or common usage shews the thing cannot be done , or conveniently or comelily done , as he saith ? or rather did they not use them as they found them instituted and observed in the jewish church ? and not for his thus , and the reasons given by him ? will those reasons justifie those very hours of the day , or the just number of three hours ? or however , how will they justify the prayers used at those hours ; but whatever exceptions he had against the time , he it seems found nothing to say to the service , which yet was pleaded as well as that . but he saith , there is nothing of religion in the time . if so ( as is granted ) then it 's in the power of a church to institute and determine it , where there is no other religion in the time , than as it 's thus separated to the service of god. lastly he saith , the apostles might have changed the hours of prayer , if they had pleased . how might they have changed them ? might they do it as apostolical persons , or as private members of the jewish church ? as to the former i find not they did exercise any such power within the jurisdiction of the jewish church , nor that they had any commission so to do . as for the latter , i deny it . for if it lay in the power of private members of a church to alter the hours in which the church is to assemble , it is in their power to dissolve the assembly , and there could nothing but confusion issue from it . i must confess he seems to be at a perfect loss what to say as to this matter . and it appears so when he dares not so much as touch upon the prayers used . in those hours , and applies his thus to st. paul's using circumcision and purification , as if they also were necessary circumstances of humane action ; or such without which the light of nature or common vsage shews the thing cannot be done , &c. which were things of pure institution at the first , and what though peculiar to the jewish church , the apostle complied with them in for a time . the next instances produced in proof of the proposition were , washing the disciples feet , love-feasts , and holy-kiss which he joyns together , and of which he saith , . it 's impossible to prove , that they were any more than civil usages , &c. . they were not used in worship . whether it is impossible to prove the first or no , doth not rest upon our author's authority , and yet that is the only thing which he hath thought fit to confront what i produced in proof of it . that they were civil rites is granted , but that they were used by christ and the apostles as no more than civil , is ( i may safely venture to say ) impossible to prove . first , because there is the reason of the thing against it , as they were instituted and used for spiritual ends , and in token of christian humility and charity ( as i then shewed ) . secondly , because of the great difference there was betwixt them when used as meerly civil , and as used by our saviour and the apostles . what this was as to washing the feet , i then shewed where he might be satisfied and to buxtorf i may add the learned dr. lightfoot . it appears further they were not meerly civil from the character given to the kiss of charity , being called the holy kiss . but this was ( saith he ) because the apostle commanded christians to use it in a sober , temperate , chast , or holy manner . but if this was the reason , then all kisses , and all feasts would be holy : but now holiness stamps somewhat peculiar upon the thing it 's applied to and signifies that by some act , end , or use , it 's separated from the rest of the same kind . and for this reason was it more likely the kiss was called holy , from its end , use and signification ( as it was a testimony of that holy and intire love , which was or ought to have been amongst christians ) rather than in respect of the manner ; for what reason was there for that , when it was betwixt persons of the same , and not a different , sex. besides , if it was a meer civil rite , and design'd for no religious end , could we think the apostle would require it , and close his epistles so frequently with it ? lastly , it appears they were not used as mere civil rites , because they were used in religious assemblies , and some of them annexed thereunto . of this ( he saith ) he can never prove , that while our saviour was worshipping his father he stept aside to wash his disciples feet : or that the primitive christians were either kissing or feasting one another in the time or act of worship , as praying , &c. it would have become our author rather to have removed the proofs given of this , than to call for more : which if he had considered he would have expressed himself with more caution and reverence . that washing the disciples feet had a spiritual signification , i have shewed , and so was not unfit for a religious solemnity ; and that it was used in such , the apostle shews , joh. . . for a further account of which i leave him to the learned casaubon ; how and when the holy kiss was used , and how it was called the seal of prayer and reconciliation , i then shewed , and is so fully proved by dr. falkner , that there needs no more to be added , till that , at least , be refuted . that the love-feasts were joyned to , and used at the same time as the lord's supper , not only the apostle's discourse upon it sheweth ; but also the change of names , and the giving of one to the other doth confirm it . for theophylact supposeth that the apostle calls the love-feast by the name of the lord's supper : and on the contrary tertullian declares that from hence the lord's supper came to be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it were easy to heap up authorities in this kind , but that is done to my hand by such as write upon this custom . after i had proved that things indifferent , though not prescribed , might be used in divine worship from the practice of the jewish church and that of christ and the apostles : i further confirm'd it from the incapacity we should be in of holding communion with any church ( if it were otherwise ) whether ancient or modern . but our author doth endeavour at once to overthrow it . for saith he , that every particular christian must practise every thing which the churches practise which he hath communion with , or be concluded to have no communion with it , is to us a new assertion . and so it is to me , who only did maintain these two things , that there was no church or society but would be found guilty if things uncommanded were unlawful ; and if the having such uncommanded things would make communion with a church unlawful , then no church could be communicated with . so that all that i affirmed was , there could be no communion lawful to such as held it unlawful to commun●cate with a church for the sake of things uncommanded . and who are concerned in this our author very well knows ; such i mean , as plead this as an argument for their present separation . but though the assertion , as he words it , is neither mine , nor true ; yet i dare affirm there are some things uncommanded which every particular christian must practise , or else he can be said to have no communion with the churches where such things are practised ; such are forms of prayer , and receiving the sacrament in the forenoon , and without sitting , where there is no provision made for them that would use that posture , as well as where it is not allowed . and this was the case in the ancient churches . to which he replies , their practices are great uncertainties , and their writings depraved , or , it cannot be made appear , that none could have any communion with those churches , unless he did eat the lord's supper fasting , or prayed toward the east . that their writings are depraved is very true , but that they are so depraved as that there is nothing certainly theirs , is what no one will assert . and that they are not depraved in the passages or things i quoted from thence , is very evident from the concurrence of the fathers therein , and the general consent of learned men of all sides . as to what he saith that it doth not appear that none could have communion with them , unless , &c. it were easy to refute it , and to shew it in the instances i gave ; and to make it out in one for all , viz. that of receiving the lord's supper fasting ; of which st. austin saith thus , liquidò apparet , &c. it plainly appears that our saviour and his disciples did not receive it fasting , but shall the vniversal church be therefore reproached , because it receiveth fasting ? and this pleased the holy-ghost , that in honour of so great a sacrament , the body of christ should first enter into the mouth of a christian. for therefore is this custom observed through the universal church . and more to the same purpose may our author read in that epistle . now when this was the practice ( as they say ) of the universal church , and that they so practised upon the score of an apostolical precept , as st. austin there saith , ( how truly is not my business to enquire ) can we think that it was not required ? or that there could be any communion with those churches , if any did otherwise ? i added to the ancient church , the state of the reformed churches abroad , and shewed how they do use things uncommanded in the worship of god , and how impossible it is upon the principles of those that dissent from our church to hold communion with theirs . to this he replies , we have not heard of any thing used among them in worship , &c. but what is prescribed , excepting only some forms of prayer relating to the sacrament . . none of these receive the sacrament kneeling . . they compel not any to receive standing or sitting . i would be loth to charge our author with want of diligence or integrity , but how reconcilable this is to it that he saith , i must leave to the impartial reader . supposing however the first to be true , yet if they have some forms they have somewhat not prescribed . but have they only some forms relating to the sacrament ? what then shall we say to capellus , that saith diverse of them have set forms of liturgies ? what to their formularies , as those of holland and switzerland ? what to the bohemian churches that have also forms in singing of humane composure ? have they nothing but forms of prayer , what then thinks he of anniversary festivals observed in the helvetick and bohemick churches ? and of god-fathers in baptism ? as much mistaken is he when he saith , none of these receive the sacrament kneeling , as appears from the petricovian synod , that i quoted in the foresaid tract . but to this he answers , it is not at all to be wondred that the lutherans in that synod , should determine as they did , &c. doth he hereby mean that there were none but lutherans in that synod , or that the lutherans , in that synod , only determined it ? which way soever he would be understood it 's a wretched mistake . for the synod was composed of those of the helvetick , augustan , and bohemick confession , and subscribed by all of them , and was indeed but one of several synods they held in common together . if he had but looked into this synod , all this discourse might have been saved , and he might have answered his own question , we desire to know what more receive sitting except the lutheran churches ? what he produceth the d. for , i cannot well understand , for it 's all one if those churches forbid any one particular posture as if they required another . and yet some do forbid sitting , as the synod above quoted , and one church kneeling . i proceeded further to shew that they themselves could not then be communicated with , since they do things without prescription ; as in administring the sacraments , conceived prayer , swearing , and church-governments and order . he saith , we do not make sitting necessary ; but that is not the point in dispute , for he by his principles should shew where it is commanded . for conceived prayer he argues , how this is prescribed , he and others have been told elsewhere , and those that have told it , have had a sufficient answer . laying the hands on the book , he saith , is a civil , no sacred usage ; as if the invoking god , and a solomn testimony of our so invoking him by some external rite , were meerly civil . such then was lifting up the hand , which was anciently used in swearing , and so appropriated to it , that it was put for swearing it self , gen. . . ex. . . they that can affirm such things as these , may affirm any thing . as for the things relating to church-order , he saith , ten times more is allowed to matters of government than worship . but he undertakes not my argument taken from the parity of reason betwixt the kingly and priestly offices of our saviour : and which the presbyterian brethren so approve of as to use the same arguments for government as worship . the third general was to enquire , how we might know what things are indifferent in the worship of god. the main things he herein objects against , respect edification ; in handling of which , he thus sums up my sense of it ; our author would not have us judge of edification from what most improveth christians in knowledg and grace , but from what tendeth most to publick order ; as if i spoke of order , in opposition to , and as exclusive of a christians improvement , whereas i plainly say , and he acknowledgeth it , that we are not so much to judge of them asunder , as together . the meaning and design of what i said , was to shew that christians are to consider themselves as members of a church , and so to have a tender regard to communion with it , and not to think their own edification a sufficient reason , to break the peace and order of it . to this he saith several things . in answer to which it will be convenient to give a clear representation and state of the case , which i shall do in these propositions . . we must consider that edification is not the laying a foundation , but a building upon it , and so there is not the same reason for the breaking order for the sake of edification , as there is for the sake of things absolutly necessary to salvation , and that which will warrant and doth oblige to the one , will not warrant nor oblige to the other . this will serve to shew the little force there is in what this reverend author confidently asserts , we know and are assured , that no man , to keep up any such human bounds ( of order , ) ought to omit means by which he may improve his own soul in the knowledge of christ , or the exercise of his habits of grace ; by which assertion of his he makes edification and improvement in knowledge , &c. as necessary as the knowledge of the fundamentals of religion . . we must consider ( as i then observed that order is a means of edification , and therefore if there happens a dispute betwixt observing order , and improvement in knowledg or grace , it 's 'twixt means and means , 'twixt what is for edification in one way , and what is for it in another , and not betwixt what is for , and what is against edification , as he would have it understood . . we must observe that when there is a dispute betwixt means and means , the less is to give place to the greater , and what is most for edification , is to yield to that which is least . . that for that reason the edification of the church , and the welfare of the whole is to be prefer'd before the spiritual advantage of any particular member ; for what the less is to the greater , that is a member to the church ; and if a person cannot serve and improve himself without damage to the publick , he is rather to sit down without that improvement , than to do mischief to the community for the obtaining it ; and as long as he is not without means sufficient for salvation , he is in that case to recede from some further attainments ; in doing which , for so good an end , he is acceptable to god , and approved of men . so that however our author may seem to shelter himself under the phrase of human order , yet as long as no church can subsist without it , and he that takes away order takes away the church , and he that saith a person ought to throw it down to improve his soul , takes away order ; he must pardon me if i think that he talks without consideration , for he that talks of edification of particular souls , in a distinct notion from the building them up as members of a church , or of members of a church without being united as a church , or of a church without any means to unite it , doth to return him his own words ) but discourse of building castles in the air , and what he would be loth his own congregation ( if he hath one ) should at every turn put into practice ; of all which , if this will not convince him , i shall desire him impartially to view the places of scripture quoted by himself from the apostle ; as also what was said before in the controverted tract , and he hath not yet answered , or has been since discoursed of in another case . the th . enquiry in the tract aforesaid was , how we are to determine our selves in the use of indifferent things in the worship of god ? under which head i shewed what respect is to be given to authority , whether ecclestiastical or civil . in answer to which our author takes up the case of imposition , and propounds two questions , which in effect are these . q. . whether there be any authority in church or state , to determine the things which god hath left indifferent to his people ? q. . whether in case they make any such law , the people may , without sin , obey them ? as for the first , he saith there and elsewhere , we cannot conceive how it is possible that in things of divine worship , things of an indifferent nature should be the matter of any human determination ; and again , that in matters of worship , no superiours may restrain , what god hath left at liberty . we are not immediately concerned in this first question , for our business was to consider not so much the extent of our superiours power , in what cases they may lawfully command , as in what we may lawfully obey . but yet because he hath herein offered somewhat like an argument , and because the clearing of this will make way for the second , i shall take it into consideration . to render his argument the more compleat , i shall repair to a foregoing part of his book , and make use of that in conjunction with what he saith here , and he thus represents it . we cannot be fully of our brothers mind , that in the worship of god superiours may determine circumstances which god hath left at liberty . god left it at liberty to the jews , to take a lamb or a kid , turtle-doves or young-pigeons , &c. we offer it to the judgment of the whole reasonable world , whether moses after this might have made a law commanding the jews to use none but kids , and only turtle-doves , &c. [ for it had been a controulment of the divine wisdom . ] if not , let not our b. think it strange if we judge the same of words in prayer , which god hath left at liberty , &c. this is an argument i find offered long since by dr. ames , a and which is so considerable in our authors opinion , that he often repeats it elsewhere b . in answer to this , st . i shall consider the case under the law , and how far what he hath said will hold good . ly . i shall shew that there is not that parity betwixt the case then , and the case now , as to render that unlawful now , which would have been unlawful then. st . i shall consider the case then , and i doubt not to affirm , it would have been no controulment of the divine wisdom , for moses and aaron to have injoyn'd the jews in some circumstances , to have taken a kid or a turtle only ; as when it was for a publick convenience and necessity : there was somewhat of this kind of equity in the first establishment of it ; so the poor was to bring such of these as he could get : and mr. pool saith , these birds were appointed for the relief of the poor , who could bring no better . and certainly he that grants it was to be left to the discretion and convenience of the offerer which to determine , ( as our author doth ) should not deny the like power to superiours for a publick convenience and benefit ; nor can this be to blot out ( as his phrase is ) what god has written , as long as they do it not in opposition to his authority . ly . supposing , that where god had wrote or 's ( as he saith ) and that to command the use of one of them alone , had in that case been a controulment of his wisdom , yet the case then is not parallel to ours . for , ( . ) the case was then determined , it was indeed a lamb or a kid , but so as no other beast , a turtle or a pigeon , but so as no other bird was to be used instead of them . but now though there is the or under the gospel , yet it is without such restraint , for ours is free through the whole kind , and nothing determines us , but a consonancy to the general rules . it 's so an or and an aliàs , that nothing of the kind is excepted . so saith our author himself ; in prayer god hath left standing , sitting or kneeling , to our choice and conveniency , &c. he hath left us at liberty what words to use , what method or order to observe , &c. ( . ) as the disjunction was then determined , so the very disjunction it self was of divine institution , and the liberty they had to choose one of the two , as well as the restraint of not choosing any but one of the two , was from the special law of god. and then for authority to have determined what god had left free , had some shew of controulment of the divine wisdom ; especially if it had been required ( as our author somewhere supposeth ) that they should never have offer'd any other but one sort of them . but under the gospel it is otherwise , for the disjunction , the or and the aliàs , doth not proceed from divine institution , but from the nature of things , and sometimes from human art and contrivance . as when washing is commanded , ( for i shall not contend about it ) all the particulars are comprehended , and the person might be dipped or sprinkled , or have water poured on him , as he observes ; so in receiving the sacrament , the posture of the primitive church ( not of meer standing , as he mistakes me , but ) of standing ( as i said ) by way of incurvation ; or sitting , or kneeling , are all comprehended under the general species of posture . again sometimes this or and aliàs proceeds from human art and contrivance , hence the diversity of habits , as a gown , cloak , surplice . now when this disjunction doth proceed not from divine institution , but from the reasons aforesaid , and that there is no special command of god to interpose , determine , restrain , or disjoyn , it can be no controulment of the wisdom or authority of god for a church to interpose , restrain , or determine these matters in his worship . this is plain in the case of meats and drinks , in which under the law there was a restraint , an or and aliàs , this and not that , and there is still an or arising from the nature of these things , and yet a determination or restraint herein is no controulment of the divine wisdom , as it might have been under the law , because there is no institution that doth interpose : and the case must be the same in divine worship , in which since there is no institution about these matters , it 's no sin to act in the same way ; that is , it 's no sin for authority to limit and determin , and for others to be limited , and determined ; which brings me to the next question . q. . whether in case such things are determined , people may , without sin , obey ? upon this our author speaks very variously , sometimes determining for authority against the principle , a sometimes for the principle against authority b . and at last leaves it problematical , and saith they are divided upon it amongst themselves c . i think not my self at present concern'd to shew the absurdity of this principle , as , how ( if this be true ) the same things must be lawful and unlawful according as they are required or forbidden by our superiours , &c. but shall only consider what he offers on its behalf . . he saith they may not in this case obey , without sin , because nature teacheth us not to part with all our natural liberty . . because we have a command to stand fast in the liberty , &c. as to the former , i only say ( and that 's enough ) that nature teacheth us and doth oblige us to part with some of our liberty in communities : and they are far from being required to part with all in ours , and so if his argument have any thing in it , it hath nothing in it as to our case . for the second , i leave him to what was said by way of prevention , in the tract he opposeth , and which he should have answered before he had made use of this as an argument . all that he hath excepted against upon that subject is the notion i laid down of christian liberty , which i said was no other than the liberty which mankind had , before it was restrained by particular institution , and he gives this reason against it , for in that [ viz. natural liberty ] we must not stand fast , because divine institution hath restrained us in it , &c. neither hath christ restored us to any such liberty . in answer to this i shall consider what natural liberty is , and then what liberty it is that the apostle did treat of ? as to the former , it 's no other but the free use or disuse of things indifferent , whether out of , or in the worship of god. as to the latter , it was no other than a freedom from the jewish yoke of bondage , and that law that gendred to it , as the whole current of the apostles discourse doth shew . and therefore it could be with respect to no other condition than that which mankind would have been , had there been no such particular institution , and was in before that institution . 't was the nature of the law , and the injoining of it by divine institution , so as it became necessary to them , that made it a yoke , and a yoke intolerable , and it was a freedom from that law that constitutes the liberty which the apostle treats of in that epistle : and if it be also to be taken as our author would have it ) for a freedom , in matters of worship , from any thing but what is of divine institution , that is a secondary sense , and which may be taken from some parity of reason betwixt case and case , but is not the apostles , nor the primary sense of it . but take it how we will in this or the other , i there shewed that the apostles exhortation was of no use to them that plead it against submission to authority in indifferent things , when imposed in or about divine worship . i am now come to the last general head of the aforesaid tract , which contained a short account of the things required in our church , as they were either duty or indifferent . and for an inforcement of that , and conclusion of the whole , i shall briefly shew how far this reverend author consents to , or by his concessions must be bound to acknowledge it . indeed he sometimes doth tell us , that nine parts of ten of all dissenters say they cannot comply with things required in the english liturgy , because they believe the things sinful and unlawful ; and elsewhere , two hardly of an hundred think them indifferent : but whether our author be of that number , or at least has reason so to be , i shall leave to his own conscience , as to himself , and to his concessions as to others . in which i shall observe the method taken in the aforesaid tract , where i said all things objected against , might be refer'd to posture , forms , and times , and shew'd these to be natural or moral circumstances of action , and inseparable from it . now in general he grants what are such may be lawfully used ; and if we come to particulars , he doth at last yield it . as for postures what more scrupled and opposed than kneeling at the sacrament ? yet of this he saith there is no command in it , and it is indifferent ; that in all probability our saviour administred it kneeling , and sitting backward upon his legs ; that no dissenter refuseth it , because it is not decent , but because it is a posture of adoration ; that our church doth not intend it as an homage to the body of christ there really present , but declares that to do it as to the bread , were an idolatry to be abhor'd ; and in conclusion tells us , that those that hesitate in that point , fear a posture of adoration used by idolatrous papists ; which is a consideration of no moment as has been already shewed . as to forms of prayer , ( he saith ) god has left us at liberty what words to use ; and further , that for conceived prayer , we know no body saith no other must be used in gods worship ; and if so , then forms may be lawfully used in it : but suppose any scruple the use of them , he saith however , we know no reason but people may hear them , if any scruples the use of them he may yet have communion with the church , we hope , though he doth not act in it as a minister . as to time , he saith , the law of nature directs ; and for festivals , such as purim amongst the jews , he saith , it was generally commanded under the precepts of giving thanks for publick mercies . lastly , are the things required unlawful because imposed ? he answers , some of us including surely himself are not of that mind ; nay he affirms that the most sober dissenters will agree in these things , [ that is , natural circumstances ] to obey the command of superiours , provided it be not such as by circumstances is made sinful . but if imposition would make them sinful , such a command must not have been obeyed . so that in the conclusion , i see no reason why our reverend brother ▪ and the dissenters he defends , and that in all things ( as he saith agree to the doctrine professed in the articles of the church of england , should dissent from the liturgy and ceremonies of it , as far as lay-communion is concerned in them . nor why he should tell us so much of goals , and sessions , and judicatures , and of the sufferings they endure , when if there things be true ) it 's for not doing what they lawfully can . it is no wonder when such with-hold communion from the church , and set up other churches against it , that some call them ( as he complains ) perverse and contamacious persons , and others call them damnable schismaticks and are so bold as to say that such a separation from that church , is a separation from christ ; and it 's likely he will meet with such that will speak very severe things of his following appeal to god , judge o thou righteous judge between these people , and those who thus pursue them . i am far from one ( god is my witness that is a smiter of his fellow-servants as he calls them ) nor would have any one do what he verily believeth is unlawful ; but i do think it is the duty of all to do what they lawfully can , to hear readily , and consider impartially what may be offered for their satisfaction , and to suffer patiently where they cannot receive it . this i think every truly conscientious person will do , and i should question his conscience that doth it not . certainly ( to return him his own words ) if our brethren have any value for the glory of god , for the good and peace of others souls , for the preserving the protestant religion , for the union of protestants against popish adversaries , for any thing indeed that is good and lovely , they will rather break than any longer draw this saw of contention , and will do as much as in them lies for the repairing of those breaches which must be confessed are no less dangerous than scandalous to our religion . the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and ioy in the holy ghost . finis . errata . pag. . l. . r. i should . p. . l. antepenult , r. imply . p. . l. . r. expressions . p. . marg. add to lightfoot . hor. in matth. and mark. p. . l. . r. government . books printed for fincham gardiner . . a a perswasive to communion with the church of england . . a resolution of some cases of conscience , which respect church-communion . the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god , proposed and stated , by considering these questions , &c. . a discourse about edification . . the resolution of this case of conscience , whether the church of england's symbolizing so far as it doth with the church of rome , makes it unlawful to hold communion with the church of england ? . a letter to aaonymus , in answer to his three letters to dr. sherlock about church-communion . . certain cases of conscience resolved , concerning the lawfulness of joyning with forms of prayer in publick worship . in two parts . . the case of mixt communion . whether it be lawful to separate from a church upon the account of promiscuous congregations , and mixt communion ? . an answer to the dissenters objections against the common prayer , and some other parts of divine ●ervice prescribed in the liturgy of the church of england . the case of kneeling at the holy sacrament , stated and resolved , &c. in two parts . a discourse of profiting by sermons , and of going to hear where men think they can profit most . . a serious exhortation , with some important advices , relating to the late cases about conformity ; recommended to the present dissenters from the church of england . . an argument to union ; taken from the true interest of those dissenters in england who profess and call themselves protestants . . some considerations about the case of scandal , or giving offence to the weak brethren . . the case of infant-baptism , in five questions , &c. . the charge of scandal and giving offence by conformity refelled , &c. . the case of lay-communion with the church of england considered , &c. . a discourse about the charge of novelty upon the reformed church of england , made by the papists asking of us the question , where was our religion before luther ? . a discourse about tradition , shewing what is meant by it , and what tradition is to be received , and what tradition is to be rejected . . the difference of the case between the separation of protestants from the church of rome , and the separation of dissenters from the church of england . . the protestant resolution of faith , &c. . a discourse concerning a guide in matters of faith with respect especially to the romish pretence of the necessity of such an one as is infallible . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e case examined , p. . p. . pag . p. . a the difference of the case between the separation of protestants from rome , &c. p. , &c. b p. , . n. . . case of indifferent things . p. . conclus . . p. . case of indifferent things p. . case examined , p. . case of indifferent things , p. . case of indiff . things . pag. . case indiff . things . pag. . jer. . ● . conclus . case of indiff . things . p. . case examined . p. . pag. . conclus . . p. ● . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . case of indifferent ▪ things . pag. . pag. . exod. . &c. pag . page . conclus . . case examined pag. pag. . sect. . case of indiff . things , p . &c. case examined p. , . defence of the principles of love , part . p. . case examin'd p. . pag. . corinth . . . eph . . fres● su●● p. . c. . & . . luke . . . gen. . . case examined pag. . pag. . case of indifferent things p. , , . case examined . pag. . * case of indifferent things . pag. . case examined , pag. . pag. . v. brightman in ames fres● suit , part . p. , . pag. . case of indiff . things , p. , . case examined , p. . pag. . ibid. pag. , . pag. . pag . pag. . pag. . a v. case of a scrupulous conscience , dr. calamy's sermon on that subject . b the case of symbolizing , and the defence . case of indifferent things . p. , &c. prop. . pag . ibid. ames's fresh suit , & answer to bp. morton . jean's uniformity in answer to dr. hammond . pag. . pag. . pag. . proceedings at the savoy , p. . cor. . . against dr. hammond . pag. . prop. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . a homilies sermon of good works pt . sermon of prayer . pt . . article . . ps. . . pag. . pag. . & . jean's answer to hammond . pag. . case of indifferent things . pag. . case examinea . pag. . pag. ● . pag. . sam. . . vers. vers. . chron. . ● . . a kings ▪ . , . b laect . on job . lect. . c sam. . . chron. . . d chron. . . e sam. . ▪ f sam. . , . vers . . g chron. . , , . , . h chron. . i chron. . ames fres● suit part . §. . and . case examined p. . a zech. . . b mac. ▪ . c john , . d euxtorf . synag . jud. e est. , , , . f c. . . . , , . g on c. . . ch. . . h c. . ● , . i c. , . k c. , . l on. c. . , and , . case examined . pag. . case examined . pag. . pag. . a pag. a herodotus , l. . c. . b casab exercit . . c. c rosini antiq . l. . c. . d ibid. e buxtorf . exercit. xxxv . & xxxviii . f horat. l. ● . i. ode . . g cor. . v. . h v. . falkner's libert . eccles. part . . c. . §. . n. . lightfoot . case examined , p. . pag. . pag. . case of indifferent things . p. . pag. , , , . case of indifferenc things . p. . case of indiff . p. . . hor. in joh. c. . . pag. . exercit. . n. . & . libertas , l . c. . §. . cor. . . apel. c. . v. vines on the sacram. c. . p. , &c. case examined pag. . case of indifferent things . pag. . epist. . ad januar. thes. salmur . part . p. . comen . de bono unit . annot. cap. . confes. helvet . comen . ibid. c. . c. . §. . case of indiff . things , p. . case examined , pag. . v. case of kneeling . p. . . vindicat. of presbyt . gov. p. . §. . case examined . pag. . pag. ▪ case of indifferent things . p. . case examined . pag. rom. . . case examined p. . . case of indifferent things , p. , . case of lay-commun . p , &c. §. . case examined , p. . pag. . . ▪ . . pag. . a fresh suit . part . p. . b pag. . . . . . lev. . . on lev. . . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . a p. . . b p. . . c p. , . case of indiff . things , p. . case exam. p. . act. . . case of indifferent things . pag. . §. . case examin . pag. . . . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , . pag. . pag. . case of indiff . p. . case exam. p. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. ● . pag. , . ibid. pag. . pag. , . pag. . ibid. a sermon upon the resurrection preached before the right honourable sir edward clark, lord-mayor, the aldermen, and governors of the several hospitals of the city, at st. bridget's church, on easter-monday, april , : being one of the anniversary spittal-sermons / by john lord bishop of chichester. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon upon the resurrection preached before the right honourable sir edward clark, lord-mayor, the aldermen, and governors of the several hospitals of the city, at st. bridget's church, on easter-monday, april , : being one of the anniversary spittal-sermons / by john lord bishop of chichester. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. errata: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng easter -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - simon charles sampled and proofread - simon charles text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the bishop of chichester's sermon before the lord-mayor , at st. bridget's-church on easter-monday . . clark mayor . martis xiij . die aprilis . annoque rrs willhelmi tertij angliae , &c. nono . this court doth desire the right reverend father in god the lord bishop of chichester to print his sermon preached at the parish-church of st. bridget's on monday in easter week last , before the lord-mayor , aldermen , and governors of this several hospitals of this city . goodfellow . a sermon upon the resurrection , preached before the right honourable sir edward clark , lord-mayor , the aldermen , and governors of the several hospitals of the city ; at st. bridget's church , on easter-monday , april . . being one of the anniversary spittal-sermons . by john lord bishop of chichester . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the corner of warwick-lane in pater-noster-row . mdcxcvii . acts x. , , . him [ jesus ] god raised up the third day , and shewed him openly , not to all the people , but unto witnesses chosen before of god , even to us , who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead . and he commanded us to preach unto the people , and to testify , that it is he who was ordained of god to be the judge of quick and dead . these words are part of the sermon st. peter preached to cornelius and his friends ; who by the immediate and special direction of god in a vision , had sent for that apostle to know from him what he ought to do ver. . who , in the first place shews , that by jesus christ the lord of all , peace is to be preached to mankind , ver. . ; which he confirms by a fourfold evidence ▪ viz. . by the testimony of john the baptist , whose history was not unknown to them , ver . . the word ye know , which was preached throughout all judea after the baptism which john preached . . by the miracles and wonderful operations of the divine power , appearing in , and wrought by our saviour , v. . god anointed jesus of nazareth with the holy ghost , and with power ; who went about doing good , and healing all that were oppressed of the devil : for god was with him . . by the resurrection of christ from the dead . so in the text : him god raised up , &c. . by the testimony of the prophets . ver. . to him give all the prophets witness , that through his name whosoever believeth in him , shall receive remission of sins . as to the d of these ( the chief point to be considered ) the apostle shews what evidences there were for it in these words ; him god raised up , and shewed him openly , not to all the people , but unto witnesses chosen before of god , even to us , who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead , &c. in discoursing upon which words , i shall . consider the proof here alledged for the resurrection of christ ; which was , that he was shewn openly , and that he was shewn to chosen witnesses ; and that those witnesses were commissioned to preach this to all people upon the evidence they themselves had for it , and should be further enabled to give . . i shall consider why christ after his resurrection was shewn openly to such chosen witnesses , and why not to all the people . . i shall shew this to be a sufficient proof of christ's resurrection , that he was thus openly shewn to such witnesses , though not to all the people . . i shall shew , what authority this testimony of christ's resurrection gives to the doctrine taught by those witnesses , viz. that of christ's being ordained of god to be the judge of quick and dead . . i shall consider the proof here alleged for the resurrection of christ. as , ( . ) that he was shewn openly . the resurrection of christ from the dead , is in it self one of the chief articles of our religion ; and is so much the more necessary to be believed and confirmed , as it gives testimony to the rest , and upon which as to their proof and evidence they do mainly depend . so the apostle grants . cor. . . if christ be not risen , then is our preaching vain ; and your faith is also vain . and therefore as our saviour himself beforehand refer'd his disciples frequently to his resurrection ; so in the first place the apostles insisted upon it as being what , is proved , would render the whole unquestionable . this article then required sufficient proof ; and for this reason god shewed him openly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he gave him to be manifest , or made it manifest that he was the person whom they had known , and had known before to be crucified and dead . so it follows here , god shewed him to us , who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead : or , as it is , acts . . to whom he shewed himself alive after his passion , by many infallible proofs , being seen of them forty days . this was absolutely necessary then to the proof of his resurrection , that he should be thus evidently manifested to be the very person that had been crucified and slain , and was now verily alive ; and that it should be to such as had intimately known him before and conversed with him afterwards . ( . ) but though he was 〈…〉 yet it was unto witnesses chosen 〈…〉 by which phrase st. peter here seems to point more particularly to the apostles , when he adds , even to us that did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead . and therefore this seems to have been a peculiar qualification for an apostle , that such a one should have seen and conversed with our saviour both before his death and after his resurrection from it . so when they were about chusing one into the place of judas , peter said , wherefore of these men who have companied with us all the time that the lord jesus went in and out among us , beginning at the baptism of john unto the same day that he was taken up from us , must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection . thus it was appointed by our saviour himself : these are the words which i spake unto you , while i was yet with you — and thus it behoved christ to suffer , and to rise from the dead — and ye are witnesses of these things . and accordingly the apostles insist upon this their designation and choice , acts. . . this jesus hath god raised up , whereof we are witnesses . acts . 〈…〉 . the god of our fathers hath raised up jesus , 〈…〉 slew and hanged on a tree . him 〈…〉 &c. and we are his witnesses 〈…〉 . ( . ) they are such chosen witnesses as had sufficient evidence to prove this their commission , and the authority they had to testify and preach to the people that christ was thus risen , and was ordained of god to be the judge of quick and dead . and this evidence was the descent of the holy ghost upon them : therefore these two are joined together , acts . . we are all witnesses of these things , and so is also the holy ghost whom god hath given to them that obey him . but this brings on the second general , viz. . why was not christ shewn after his resurrection to all the people as well as unto chosen witnesses ? our b. saviour in the time of his three years ministry went about doing good , v. . and came ( as he saith of himself ) eating and drinking , and freely conversed , as there was occasion ; but though he abode days upon the earth , after his resurrection , he seemed then rather to retire from conversation , than to use it as before ; and his visits were rather occasional than continued . now it might be thought to have render'd his resurrection more unquestionable , and would have been more to the satisfaction of mankind , if he had as commonly and publickly shewn himself alive after his resurrection , as before his death , to all the people . for in such a case , what a man sees himself , is better than a thousand witnesses ; and the more there are that see it , the stronger is the evidence to those that have not seen . our apostle foresaw this objection ; and that the jews at that time might cavil at what the witnesses taught concerning our saviour's resurrection , and would probably say ; if he were risen , why did he not appear to us as well as to you ? we heard him teach for years together before his death : we saw him crucified , and knew that he died : and if he is risen from the dead , the best proof of it to us , is to have him shew himself to us to be alive , as ye say he did to you . therefore the apostle prevents this , when he saith , god shewed him openly , not to all the people , but unto witnesses chosen before of god , even to us , who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead . where the apostle grants , that christ was not shewn to all the people after the resurrection ; but withal he insinuates this to be no prejudice to the proof of it ; forasmuch as he was manifested to witnesses chosen before of god , and that did eat and drink with him afterwards . in which there are several things included ; as , . that it was not necessary that christ should be openly shewn to all the people , to induce and oblige them to the belief of his resurrection . . that if there were sufficient testimony of it by persons in all respects credible , and as far as testimony could go , that was a sufficient motive for credibility , and a sufficient argument to oblige those to believe , that did not see . indeed there is no other way than testimony to induce those to the belief of it , that had not the opportunity of seeing , hearing , eating and drinking , and conversing with our saviour , in matters depending upon testimony ; and where there cannot be any other evidence ( as it is in matters of fact remote in time or place ) all that is to be relied on is the reasonableness and possibility of the thing , and the credibility of the testificators . as to the possibility , it may with great reason be asked , as it is acts . . why should it be thought a thing incredible , that god should raise the dead ? or that a dead person should revive . and as to the credibility of the persons , what can be a greater evidence , than that they saw and felt that he had flesh and bones , beheld his wounds , eat and drank , and for days together on and off , conversed with him ? so that the proofs they had , were infallible , and of the greatest certainty . they had such an evidence as was to themselves undeniable , and which shewed him to be the self-same person that they conversed with before his death , and that they saw dead . thus st. john represents it in a sensible way , that which was seen , from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen with our eyes , which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life . ( for the life was manifested , and we have seen it , and bear witness , &c. ) that which we have seen and heard , declare we unto you : and the evidence they gave to others was as convincing ; they professed it boldly in the midst of the most apparent dangers ; and notwithstanding the threats of a provoked and implacable adversary , were ready to , and did , seal it with their blood. and that nothing might be wanting to give the greatest corroboration and strength to their evidence , they did work such miracles as were manifestly the effect of a divine power , and which they professed to work only in the name of christ , whom they affirmed to be risen from the dead . acts . . . . so that if ever there was sufficient evidence for a matter of fact , this is the evidence . and where this was , there needed no more . but however , because it may still be urged , that there was a shorter way to this ; and there needed no witnesses , nor miracles , if he had appeared to the people ; and therefore why was not this allowed to them , as well as the apostles ? i answer , . it was allowed to a sufficient number , besides the apostolical witnesses ; for besides his first apparition , and the casual visits he gave to the apostles , there was a solemn assembly in a mountain of galilee , where he appointed to meet them : and there , or elsewhere , was he seen by above five hundred bretbren at once . nay , we are told , that he was seen of them forty days , and talked with them of the things pertaining to the kingdom of god. . the christians are called always in the phrase of this book of the acts , the brethren , believers , or disciples : but by the people is meant the promiscuous multitude of the jews : and then we are to consider what the mass of that people was ; they were the obstinate incredulous people , that imputed his works to beelzebub , that cried out , crucify him , and wished his blood to be upon them and their children . they were such as were no longer to be a people , and whose house and temple , church and nation were to be laid desolate : and so had no pretence to such a saviour . but as for such among them as were sincere , and ingenuous , and could be prevailed with , here was evidence sufficient ; and if upon such evidence they could not be prevailed with to believe , nothing would prevail upon them ; nor was any other means due to them . thus we find it was with the jews in another case ; some of whom , that saw lazarus after his resurrection , went their ways to the pharisees , and told them what things jesus had done , john . . and the chief priests , when the watch gave them an account of what happened upon the resurrection of our saviour ; and told them , how the angel appeared , and came and roll'd back the stone ; and that for fear of him they did shake , and became as dead men , yet remained obstinate ; and by large money prevailed upon the soldiers to say , his disciples came by night and stole him away whilst we slept . when there is such a perverseness of mind , they will cavil eternally , and will question their own senses rather than own that which they do not like , and is to be and may be proved by that means to them . thus our saviour resolves the point , luke . . if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be persuaded , though one rise from the dead . it was to little purpose to labour to convince such ; it was in our saviour's phrase , to cast pearl before swine , to give them an occasion of renewing their invectives and reproaches . such as these were not worthy of such favours . so lactantius saith , he would not shew himself to the jews , lest he should bring them to repentance , and heal the wicked . for , . the nature of the thing would not admit it , that he should thus be shewn to all the people ; for faith is all along made a necessary qualification for salvation . if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and shalt believe in thine heart that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved , rom. . . but where had there been any room or occasion for the exercise of this so celebrated a grace , if our saviour had openly been shewn , and appeared to all the people after his resurrection ? this had been such evidence as none could have gainsaid : and then there would have been no mark nor character by which the believer and sincere could have been distinguished from the unbeliever and caviller ; nor would faith have been a virtue worthy of praise or reward , more than the exercise of our senses is upon their proper and natural objects . our saviour said to thomas , john . . &c. ( who , when he beheld in his hands the print of the nails , and thrust his hand into his side , acknowledged him and said , my lord and my god ) thomas , because thou hast seen me , thou hast believed ; blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed . to believe that christ was risen when he saw him , and put his finger into the print of the nails , and thrust his hand into his wounded side , was an evidence no more to be questioned , than whether he himself was alive and sensible . and therefore if there was to be such a thing as faith , or a believing where they have not seen : if faith is a virtue commendable and worthy of such a reward as eternal life ; 't is fit there should be a way of trial , by which the candid and ingenuous , the honest and sincere , may be distinguished from the perverse and obstinate . and as the apostle saith , there must be heresies and sects , that they which are approved and sincere may be made manifest : so 't is fit that there should not be the utmost evidence given that can be , or that cavillers may require , for the trial of sincerity , and whether persons will use that attention and diligence in inquiring , that candour and sincerity in entertaining , as faith is not to be obtained , nor can truly be called faith without . and this is a reason why christ after his resurrection was openly shew'd to chosen witnesses , and not to all the people . thus tertullian saith , he did not offer himself to the view of the people , lest the wicked should be delivered from their error : he adds , and that faith which has assigned to it no small reward , might meet with difficulty . then it is faith , and faith is a virtue , as it was in those st. peter speaks of , whom having not seen , ye love : and in whom , though now ye see him not , yet believing ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory . but yet however , though faith in christ , and a belief of his resurrection , be thus necessary to all , to those that saw him not , as well as to those that saw him ; yet there must be an evidence sufficient to induce them to believe that did not see , and to render them inexcusable that believe not ; which should be the subject of the next general , viz. . that it is a sufficient proof of christ's resurrection , and a sufficient reason for our belief of it , that he was thus openly shewn to such witnesses , though not to all the people . there was an absolute necessity for the proof of christ's resurrection that he should appear plainly and visibly to some ; and to whom sooner than to those that had been before conversant with him , and were chosen by god himself to be the witnesses of it ? but when this was done , and they were sufficiently empowred to testify of it , there was no necessity that the same evidence should be given to others that was given to them , for the reasons before laid down : where i have already prevented my self ; so that i need not further to inlarge upon this argument . and so i shall proceed to the th general , which is , . to consider the testimony which is given by christ's resurrection to the doctrine taught by the chosen witnesses ; and that is christ's being ordained by god to be the judge of quick and dead . in which there are these four things to be considered : . that there is a time of reckoning , and a judgment to come , when all men shall give an account of themselves to god , and be determined to happiness or misery , according to what they have done in this life . . that christ is ordained to be at that time , the judge of quick and dead . . that this is as certain so to be , as that god raised up christ from the dead . . that this is a doctrine of such importance and universal concernment to all mankind , that it is to be preached to all the people . . that there is a judgment to come . this world is a state of trial , where every person has a work to do , an office to discharge , a talent to improve , and a time for it . but the time of reckoning , when a person is to give an account of his stewardship , is reserved to another life . and indeed the nature of this state will not admit that it should be otherwise , and that persons here should receive their finall doom . for here god rules in an ordinary way by the ministry of men , and under these circumstances it is not possible to lay judgment to the line , and righteousness to the plummet , and to bring all things to a right and unerring determination . for men can judge only according to outward appearance , and cannot understand what are the secret and original springs of action , which often are lodged very deep , and yet which must be known , if we would pass an impartial judgment . again ; there are actions of the heart , which betray not themselves by any external signs and indications , and so are only knowable to god the searcher of the heart . again , there are even some external actions that a person is himself only privy to ; as secret injustice on one side , and private charity on the other , when the left hand knows not what the right hand doth . again ; there are many acts good or evil , which the laws of men have no regard to , as gratitude and ingratitude , that are highly commendable or injurious ; and yet no human authority doth oblige to the virtue , nor punish the want of it . again , men are very partial , apt to be byassed by enmity , envy , interest , fear or flattery , or prejudice on one side to the worse , or by prepossession from affection and interest to the other . and therefore there needs a higher tribunal , where universal knowledge , unlimited power , impartial administration bear sway : where all things shall be finally decided , all cases fully resolved and determined , according to the merits of them . this then the present state of things in the world doth shew : this the consciences of men do presage : this the scripture every where inculcates : this will be a judgment exact and impartial , final , and irreversible . a consideration of mighty force : so solomon thought it , when he concludes his advice with it , eccl. . . let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter , fear god and keep his commandments — for god shall bring every work into judgment , with every secret thing , whether it be good , or whether it be evil . so thought st. paul , cor. . , . we labour , that whether present or absent , we may be accepted of him . for we must all appear before the judgment-seat of christ — v. . knowing therefore the terror of the lord , we persuade men . and surely this will persuade men , or nothing will : this will persuade , if they are to be persuaded . the rich man thought so , when he concluded , that if lazarus rose from the dead , and went to his five brethren , and testified unto them concerning a place of torment , they would repent . and surely if this doctrine was as much believed , and as well considered as it is of importance , it would quicken the slothful , awaken the drowsy and negligent , reform the perverse , and conquer the obstinate . if they did but after this manner reflect upon themselves : is the time coming , when whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he also reap ? when all that i have done , said or thought , shall be brought into examination ? are all these things wrote down in a book of remembrance ? what a condition then am i in , to appear before such a judge , and such a tribunal ? if i know so much by my self , who have kept no such book , taken no such punctual account of my self , and yet know so much as to condemn my self , and stand condemned by my own heart ; what shall i say or think , when god is greater than my heart , and knoweth all things ? may we not justly cry out with the psalmist , enter not into judgment with thy servant , o lord ! for in thy sight shall no flesh living be justified . and again , if thou , lord , shouldest mark iniquities : o lord , who shall stand ? but there is forgiveness with him ; and that is testified by jesus christ , and confirmed by god's raising him from the dead , who was a propitiation for our sins . which brings me to the second . . that christ is ordained to be , at that time , the judge of quick and dead . so we read john . . that the father hath committed all judgment to the son ; and v. , . the time is coming , when all that are in the grave shall hear his voice , and come forth ; and shall stand before the judgment-seat of christ : that god shall judge the secrets of men by him . matter indeed of just terror to the wicked , that he is then to be the judge , who thought nothing too dear to purchase their redemption , but freely parted with his own life for it . how must those stand speechless , and be inexcusable , when the lord shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels , in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god , and that obey not the gospel of the lord jesus christ. but on the other side , what comfort will this administer to all true believers , that he is to be the judge , who took part of the same with them , and laid down his life for them ? to see him whom they have believed in as their saviour , loved and obeyed as their lord ! to see him whom they have longed to see ! what joy will it then be to such ! what comfort will spring up in their minds , when the lord jesus shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired of all them that believe in that day ! . there is the certainty of this ; as certainly is there a judgment to come , and as certainly shall christ then be the judge , as he himself rose from the dead . thus the apostle improves it ; acts . . god hath appointed a day , in which he will judge the world in righteousness , by that man whom he hath ordained , and of which he hath given assurance to all men , in that he hath raised him from the dead . that indeed is an undeniable testimony for whatever it is to prove . so it was thought by that miserable person in hell , luke . . who said of his five brethren , if one went from the dead , they will repent . that is , there is no evasion , it is evidence not to be gainsaid . but here is one risen from the dead , that has brought life and immortality to light. and then how inexcusable must they be that disregard such a testimony , or the matter it bears testimony to ? let him come down from the cross , say the incredulous jews , and we will believe . but here is one come from the dead , and what can be said then , if they believe not ? . the doctrine of a future judgment , being a point of great importance to all , is to be preached unto the people . this is the use st. paul makes of it , knowing the terror of the lord , [ that we must all appear before the judgment-seat of christ ] we persuade men . and surely there is no matter of greater terror , no argument of greater force and persuasion , and so none more to be used , and repeated , and insisted upon by the teacher ; none more fit to be considered by the people , both as to the consequence of it , and the negligence of mankind , in the consideration of it . what an influence would this doctrine of a judgment to come have upon us , if firmly believed , duly pondered , and frequently thought upon ? if it was but taken into serious consideration in the beginning of the day , and reflected upon in the close of it , what evil would it prevent ? and what good would it put us upon and promote ? if the thoughts of it did but intervene in the spaces of our business , how just and exact would it make us in our dealings ? how observant of our words and behaviour ? how would it oblige us to improve our time , and to lay out our talents to the best advantage . and yet , though this be one of the most important subjects we can think upon , and the most necessary to have frequently in our thoughts ; though this be an article we all profess to believe , how little is it in our minds ? how little influence has it upon us ; when we think , and speak , and act for the most part as if all were shut up with the day , and no more to be revealed than the day it self ? considering which ( the importance of the subject , and the incogitancy of mankind ) it is therefore necessary that it should be often preached unto the people : that it should be pressed upon them with the utmost force ; and if possible be of as much efficacy as it is of authority and consequence . it is god that requires it of the teacher ; for , saith the apostle here , he commanded us to preach unto the people ; and to testifie , that it is he who was ordained of god to be the judge of quick and dead . it was the consideration of this , without doubt , amongst other things , that has in all ages stirred up pious and well-disposed persons to do good to others ; and to make the best improvement of the stock given to them by god the prime donor and benefactor : of which we have memorable examples ; and of the fruits of which charity and benevolence , take a true report of the great number of poor children , and other poor people maintained in the several hospitals , under the pious care of the lord-mayor , commonalty and citizens of london , the year past . christ's-hospital . children put forth apprentices and discharged , . four whereof being instructed in the mathematicks and navigation , are already placed out ; and others qualified for it , out of the mathematical school , founded by king charles ii. children buried children remaining in the house and at nurse the stated and certain revenue amounts to little more than a moiety of the necessary charge . st. bartholomew's-hospital . cured and discharged of wounded , sick and maimed soldiers , seamen , and other diseased persons buried remaining under cure st. thomas's-hospital . cured and discharged of wounded , sick and maimed soldiers , seamen , and other diseased persons the revenue much less than will defray the charge . buried remaining under cure bridewell-hospital . received into it vagrants , and other indigent and miserable people ( many whereof were relieved with clothing , &c. ) maintained and brought up in divers trades at the charge of the said hospital bethlehem-hospital . brought into it distracted men and women the last year cured and discharged buried remaining under cure the revenue doth not amount to one half of the yearly expences . in this report i have now laid before you such noble instances of christian charity , as scarcely any city of the whole world can parallel ; and that , whether we consider the several useful ends for which those charities were bestowed , and these places endowed ; or the faithfulness of the governours concerned in the administration . it is above an hundred years ago ( as has been , i perceive , before observed to this congregation ) when the members of our church did publickly , in the face of the world , challenge the great pretenders to such charities ( i mean those of the church of rome ) to compare with them . i forbid the best of them , saith one of the great men of that age , upon this very occasion , to shew me in rhemes or rome such a shew as we have seen these two days ▪ ; [ he preached on the wednesday in easter-week . ] he goes on , i will be able to prove , that learning , in the foundation of schools ; the poor , in foundation of alms-houses , have received greater help , within these forty years , than it hath in any christian realm , not only within the self-same forty years , but also than it hath in any forty years upwards , during all the time of popery . and if so , what a wonderful increase has been since made , and that within the last forty years , notwitstanding the vast devastations of a civil war , and of a devouring fire ; any one that will take the pains to compare the state of the city alone , as it was then , and as it is now , may see . and i am sure there is not a greater increase in the revenue ▪ than there is an improvement of the administration . let us but review the particulars . . as to the orphans ; what a number is there ? what care is there taken in their education ? first in their nurseries , which of late they have erected ; and by a kind of collegiate institution , kept those younglings from being reached by those temptations , which in promiseuous company of other children they were before liable to be perverted by . and when transplanted hither , into a riper soyl , how are they immediately disposed of to the best advantage , according to their capacities , upon due tryal and observation ? there is nothing wanting to furnish them with learning , if their inclination tend that way ; or if they are otherwise disposed by their genius , there are other masters for writing and accounts , mathematicks , navigation , trade by land or sea. so that there is an education that will make them useful members of a commonwealth ; and an education which any one would be ambitious of ; and others that are able , elsewhere , pay liberally for . but there is one thing not to be forgotten , and that is , the pains that is taken to train them up in virtue and piety : so that notwithstanding the great number of youth together , there is not more care taken of the cleanliness of the place and apparel , the wholesomness of the diet , than of their morals and virtue , and their instruction in the principles of religion . the next thing that comes in our view , is the care of the sick and the maimed ; who can take little or no care of themselves , and are here liberally provided for . and so are they that cannot so much as crave help , or know that they stand in need of it ; i mean the lunatick ; and even the perverse and obstinate , are not neglected . let us go through all the miseries of mankind , and all states of men under them , and there is scarcely any but what have found careful and liberal benefactors . so that i know nothing wanting to compleat it , but some further care of the prisons , and a repressing of those numbers of vagrant beggars , that are the burthen of the kingdom , and the reproach of it . all the reflection i shall make of this , shall be from the fore-cited author . methinks , saith he , it is strange that the exiled churches of strangers which are harboured here with us , shall be able in this kind to do such good , as not one of their poor is to be seen to ask about the streets , and this city the harbourer and maintainer of them , should not be able to do the same good . but my business is not so much to celebrate the praises of such as have been charitable and bountiful in this way , though they deserve to be had in everlasting remembrance for it ; as it is to provoke others to an imitation of the like pious and charitable minds ; which god be thanked other ages , and even this , is not wanting in . but however , there is room enough for others to follow ; and i am sorry for making such an observation upon the whole , as will not only make it very commendable , but a necessary work ; and to speak christianly , a duty to such whom god hath prospered in such a plentiful manner , as they may be capable of it . and this is so much the more capable of enforcement , that in all , the expence is much beyond the standing revenue , and in some near , if not above , a moiety beyond it . and what can be the issue of this , but augmenting their debt , or that others by their benefactions should prevent it ? what remains therefore , but that those that are not under those necessities , should consider the case of those that are ? let those who have had parents to provide for them ; or who have been by the wonderful providence of god , notwithstanding their want of it , rais'd in the world to plentiful estates , shew their thankfulness to god by a care of those that are orphans and comfortless . let such as have their health and limbs , and so can enjoy the estate god has blessed them with , consider those that want health and riches , nay the necessities of life to support them under those infirmities . let those that have the use of their senses , and that have not had occasion to burthen , or lay too heavy a load upon their minds ; or if they have , yet have not been pressed beyond measure , remember what a blessing they enjoy by the use of that reason which others do want , and are deprived of . let those that have not by necessities , or other occasions , been exposed to the temptations of vagrancy and dissolute courses , have some compassion for those that have , and contribute toward the pulling of such out of the fire . indeed if every one did but make the case of others their own ; every one that can , would be more or less a benefactor to such foundations as these are . and this argument would be improv'd , if we consider'd , that all we have is of meer gift , and we are but stewards and dispensers of it ; it being for a time deposited in our hands for several excellent ends and uses ; and that we are all accountable another day to god the supreme lord and donor , and indeed proprietor of all . and thus our saviour represents it , matt. . , &c. when the son of man shall come in his glory , and all the holy angels with him , then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory ; and before him shall be gathered all nations — then shall the king say unto them on his right hand , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world : for i was an hungred , and ye gave me meat : i was thirsty , and ye gave me drink : i was a stranger , and ye took me in : naked , and ye cloathed me : i was sick , and ye visited me : i was in prison , and ye came unto me . he concludes , inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren , ye have done it unto me . what greater encouragement , than to have our saviour himself a debtor to us , when we are all so to almighty god! what greater than to have an eternal reward for dispensing of that to others , which we our selves receive ! what greater than to be assured that the son of man himself , when he shall come in his glory , will be ready to receive us , and that he will then say to us , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you ! i shall conclude with that of the apostle , who sums up all as to our duty and encouragement : charge them that are rich in this world , that they be not high-minded , nor trust in uncertain riches , but in the living god , who giveth us richly all things to enjoy : that they do good , that they be rich in good works , ready to distribute , willing to communicate ; laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come , that they may lay hold on eternal life . which god of his infinite mercy grant unto us , through jesus christ our lord. amen . finis . errata . page . margin . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . for revealed r. recalled . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e matth. . . . , . . . joh. . acts . , , . . , . . . . . so the phrase is used , rom. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i was made manifest . 〈◊〉 acts . , . luk. , , , , , . matt. . . luk. . . john . . act. . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 john . , , . act. . . mat. . , . cor. . . act. . . mark . . matt. . . matt. . . mat. . , , . noluit se judaeis ostendere , nè adduceret eos in paenitentiam , atque impios resanaret . de ver. sap. l. . cor. . . apol. non in vulgus eduxit se , nè impij errore liberarentur : et ut fides non mediocri praemio destinata , difficultate constaret . pet. . . matt ▪ . . eccl. . , . rom. . . . eccl. . . cor. . . gal. . . joh. . . ps. . ps. . rom. . . cor. . . thess. . , . heb. . . thess. . . tim. . . matth. . . cor. . . dr. andrews , ( after bishop ) spittal-sermon , . p. . and dr. willet's synopsis papismi . ib. p. . joh. . . tim. . , , . the case of lay-communion with the church of england considered and the lawfulness of it shew'd from the testimony of above an hundred eminent non-conformists of several perswasions. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the case of lay-communion with the church of england considered and the lawfulness of it shew'd from the testimony of above an hundred eminent non-conformists of several perswasions. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for dorman newman ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. written by john williams. cf. nuc pre- . fourth title in: a collection of cases and other discourses, v. . errata: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng lord's supper -- early works to . lord's supper -- church of england -- early works to . dissenters, religious -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the case of lay-communion with the church of england considered ; and the lawfulness of it shew'd from the testimony of above an hundred eminent non-conformists of several perswasions . published for the satisfaction of the scrupulous , and to prevent the sufferings which such needlesly expose themselves to . london , printed for dorman newman at the kings arms in the poultry . . to the dissenters from the church of england . dear brethren , you being at this time called upon by authority to joyn in communion with the church , and the laws ordered to be put in execution against such as refuse it ; it s both your duty and interest to enquire into the grounds upon which you deny obedience to the laws , communion with a church of god , and thereby expose our religion to danger , and your selves to suffering . in which , unless the cause be good , the call clear , and the end right , it cannot bring peace to your selves , or be acceptable to god. not bring peace to your selves ; for we cannot suffer joyfully the spoiling of our goods , the confinement of our persons , the ruine of our families , unless conscience be able truly to say , i would have done any thing but sin against god , that i might have avoided these sufferings from men . not be acceptable to god , to whom all are accountable for what portion he hath instrusted them with of the things of this life , and are not to throw away without sufficient reason ; and who has made it our duty to do what we can without sin in obedience to that authority which he hath set over us , ( as you are told by some in the same condition with your selves . ) to assist persons in this enquiry , i have observed that of late several of the church of england have undertaken the most material points that you do question , and have handled them with that candor and calmness which becomes their profession , and the gravity of the arguments , and which may the better invite those that are willing to be satisfied , to peruse and consider them . but because truth and reason do too often suffer by the prejudices we have against particular persons ; to remove , as much as may be , that obstruction , i have in this treatise shewed that these authors are not alone , but have the concurrent testimony of the most eminent non-conformists for them , who do generally grant that there is nothing required in the parochial communion of the church of england , that can be a sufficient reason for separation from it . the sence of many of these i have here collected , and for one hundred i could easily have produced two , if the cause were to go by the pole ; so that if reason or authority will prevail , i hope that yet your satisfaction and recovery to the communion of the church is not to be despaired of : which god of his infinite mercy grant for your own and the churches sake . amen . the contents . the difference betwixt ministerial and lay-communion pag. the dissenters grant the church of england to be a true church p. that they are not totally to separate from it p. that they are to comply with it as far as lawfully they can p. that defects in worship , if not essential , are no just reason for separation p. that the expectation of better edification is no sufficient reason to with-hold communion p. the badness of ministers will not justifie separation p. the neglect or want of discipline no sufficient reason to separate p. the opinion which the nonconformists have of the several practices of those of the church of england , which its lay-members are concerned in p. that forms of prayer are lawful , and do not stint the spirit ibid. that publick prescribed forms may lawfully be joyned with p. that the liturgy , or common-prayer , is for its matter sound and good , and for its form tolerable , if not useful p. that kneeling at the sacrament is not idolatrous , nor unlawful , and no sufficient reason to separate from that ordinance p. , that standing up at the creed and gospel , is lawful p. the conclusion ibid. the non-conformists plea for lay-communion with the church of england . the christian world is divided into two ranks , ecclesiastical and civil , usually known by the names of clergy and laity , ministers and people . the clergy , besides the things essentially belonging to their office , are by the laws of all well-ordered churches in the world , strictly obliged by declarations or subscriptions , or both , to owne and maintain the doctrine , discipline and constitution of the church into which they are admitted . thus in the church of england they do subscribe to the truth of the doctrine more especially contained in the thirty nine articles , and declare that they will use the forms and rites contained in the liturgy , and promise to submit to the government in its orders . the design of all which is to preserve the peace of the church , and the unity of christians , which doth much depend upon that of its officers and teachers . but the laity are under no such obligations , there being no declarations or subscriptions required of them , nor any thing more than to attend upon , and joyn with the worship practised and allowed in the church . thus it is in the church of england , as it is acknowledged by a worthy person , to whom when it was objected that many errours in doctrine and life were imposed as conditions of communion , he replies , what is imposed on you as a condition to your communion in the doctrine and prayers of the parish-churches , but your actual communion it self ? in discoursing therefore about the lawfulness of communion with a church , the difference betwixt these two must be carefully observed , lest the things required only of one order of men should be thought to belong to all . it 's observed by one , that the original of all our mischiefs sprung from mens confounding the terms of ministerial conformity with those of lay-communion with the parochial assemblies ; there being much more required of ministers than of the people : private persons having much less to say for themselves in absenting from the publick worship of god , though performed by the liturgy , than the pastor hath for not taking oaths , &c. certainly , if this difference was but observed , and the case of lay-communion truly stated and understood , the people would not be far more averse to communion with the parish-churches than the non-conforming ministers are , as one complains ; and whatsoever they might think of the conformity of ministers , because of the previous terms required of them , they would judge what is required of the people to be lawful , as some of them do . and as the ministers by bringing their case to the peoples may see communion then to be lawful , and find themselves obliged to maintain it in a private capacity ; so the people by perceiving their case not to be that of the ministers , but widely different from it , would be induced to hold communion with the church , and to joyn with those of their ministers that think it their duty so to do ; and are therein of the opinion of the old non-conformists that did not act a , as if there was no middle between separation from the church and true worship thereof , and subscription unto , or practice or approbation of all the corruptions of the same . for b though they would not subscribe to the ceremonies , yet they were against separation from gods publick worship , as one of them in the name of the rest doth declare . so that as great a difference as there is betwixt presence and consent , betwixt bare communion and approbation , betwixt the office of the minister and the attendance of a private person , so much is there betwixt the case of ministerial and lay-communion : and therefore when we consider the case of lay-communion , we are only to respect what is required of the people , what part they are to have and exercise in communion with the church . now what they are concerned in , are either , the forms that are imposed , the gestures they are to use , and the times they are to observe , for the celebration of divine worship ; or , the ministration , which they may be remotely suppos'd also to be concerned in . the lawfulness of all which , and of all things required in lay-communion amongst us , i shall not undertake to prove and maintain by arguments taken from those that already are in full communion with the church of england , and so are obliged to justifie it ; but from those that in some things do dissent from it , who may therefore be supposed to be impartial and whose reasons may be the more heeded as coming from themselves , and from such that are as forward in other respects to owne the miscarriages of the church ; as those that wholly separate from it . for the better understanding of the case , and of their judgment in it , i shall consider , . what opinion the most eminent and sober non-conformists have had of the church of england . . what opinion they have had of communion with that church . . what opinion they he had of such practices and usages in that church , as lay-men are concerned in . . what opinion the most eminent and sober non-conformists have had of the church of england . and that will appear in these two things , first , that they owne her to be a true church ; secondly , to be a church in the main very valuable . first , they owne her to be a true church . thus an eminent person saith of the old non-conformists , they did always plead against the corruptions of the church of england , but never against the truth of her being , or the comfort of her communion , and as much is affirmed of the present , by a grave and sober person amongst them , the presbyterians generally hold the church of england to be a true church , though defective in its order and discipline . and thus it 's acknowledged in the name of the rest by one that undertakes their defence , and would defend them in their separation , we acknowledge the church of england to be a true church , and that we are members of the same visible church with them . and this they do not only barely assert , but do undertake to prove : this is done by the old non-conformists , in their confutation of the brownists , who thus begin , that the church of england is a true church of christ , and such an one , as from which whosoever wittingly and willingly separateth himself , cutteth himself off from christ , we doubt not but the indifferent reader may be perswaded by these reasons following : . we enjoy and joyn together in the use of those outward means , which god hath ordained in his word for the gathering of a visible church , and have been effectual to the unfeigned conversion of many , as may appear both by the other fruits of faith , and by the martyrdom which sundry have endured that were members of our church , &c. . our whole church maketh profession of the true faith. the confession of our church , together with the apology thereof , and those articles of religion which were agreed upon in the convocation-house , an. . ( whereunto every minister of the land is bound to subscribe ) so far forth as they contain the confession of faith and the doctrine of the sacraments , do prove this evidently , &c. so mr. ball : wheresoever we see the word of god truly taught and professed in points fundamental , and the sacraments for substance rightly administred , there is the true church of christ , though the health and soundness of it may be crazed by many errours in doctrine , corruptions in the worship of god , and evils in the life and manners of men . as much as this is also affirmed in the letters passed betwixt the ministers of old england and new england , it is simply necessary to the being of a church that it be laid upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or the want of what is commanded cannot put the society from the title or right of a true church . and if we enquire into the judgment of the present non-conformists , we shall find them likewise arguing for it : thus the author of jerubbaal , the essentials constitutive of a true church , a re , . the head ; . the body ; . the union that is between them : which three concurring in the church of england , christ being the professed head , she being christ's professed body , and the catholick faith being the union-band whereby they are coupled together , she cannot in justice be denied a true ( though god knows far from a pure ) church . if we should proceed in this argument , and consider the particulars , i might fill a volume with testimonies of this kind . the doctrine of the church is universally held to be true and sound , even the brownists own'd it of old in their calm mood , who declare , we testifie to all men by these presents , that we have not forsaken any one point of the true , ancient , apostolick faith professed in our land , but hold the same grounds of christian religion with them . see more in bayly's disswasive , c. . p. . . and dr. stillingfleet's unreasonableness of separation , part . § . . p. . the presbyterians ( if i may so call them for distinction sake ) do owne it . so m r corbet , the doctrin of faith and sacraments by law established is heartily received by the non-conformists . so m r baxter , as for the doctrin of the church of england , the bishops and their followers from the first reformation begun by edward the vi , were found in doctrine , adhering to the augustan method express'd now in the articles and homilies , they differed not in any considerable point from those whom they called puritans . the like is affirmed by the independents , the confession of the church of england , declared in the articles of religion , and herein what is purely doctrinal , we fully embrace as to the worship , they owne it for the matter and substance to be good , and for edification . so the old non-conformists , as m r hildersham , there is nothing in our assemblies , but we may receive profit by it , &c. and again , there is nothing done in god's publick worship among us , but what is done by the institution , ordinance and commandment of the lord. so among the present , it is own'd by both presbyterians and independents ; by the former in the morning-exercise , why may it not be supposeable , that christians may be moved by reasonable considerations to attend the publick forms , the substantial parts of them being thought agreeable to a divine institution , though in some circumstantials too disagreeable . so it 's acknowledged , that in private meetings the same doctrine and worship is used as in the parish churches , only some circumstances and ceremonies omitted . by the latter , we know full well that we differ in nothing from the whole form of religion established in england , but only in some few things in outward worship . but i shall have further occasion to treat of this under the third general . as for the ministry of the church , . it is acknowledged to be true , and for substance the same which christ hath established . so m r bradshaw , i affirm , that the ministry of our church-assemblies ( howsoever it may in some particular parts of the execution happily be defective in some places ) is for the substance thereof that very same ministry which christ hath set in his church . this he speaks , as he saith , of those that do subscribe and conform according to the laws of the state. . that they have all things necessarily belonging to their office ; so the grave and modest confutation maintains , the preaching of the whole truth of god's word , and nothing but it ; the administration of the sacraments and of publick prayer , as they are all parts of the ministers office prescribed in the word , so they are all appointed to our ministers by the law. . they owne , that all the defects in it , whether in their call or administration , do not nullifie the office . thus much m r bradshaw doth contend for , so many of our ministers ( who in the book of ordination are called priests and deacons ) as in all points concerning the substance of their ministry , are qualified according to the intent of the laws , have their offices , callings , administration and maintenance , for the substance thereof ordained by christ. and yet i deny not , but there may be some accidental defects , or superfluities in or about them all ; yet such as do not , or cannot be proved to destroy the nature and substance of any of them . this is maintained at large in the letter of the ministers in old england , &c. p. , . and the like is also affirmed even by those of the congregational way , so the brethren in their apology , the unwarrantable power in church-governours did never work in any of us any other thought , much less opinion , but that the ministry thereof [ of the english churches ] was a true ministry . so m r cotton , the power whereby the ministers in england do administer the word and sacraments , is either spiritual and proper , essential to their calling , or adventitious and accidental . the former they have received from christ , &c. the latter from the patron who presents , or the bishop who ordains , &c. whoever has a mind to see their ordination defended may consult jus divinum ministerii evangelici , part . p. , , , , &c. jus divinum r●gim . eccles. p. , &c. cawdry's independency a great schism , p. . and his defence of it , p. , . thus far therefore we see how far it is agreed , that the church of england is a true church in its doctrine , worship and ministry . but when we come to consider what the church is they own thus to be true , there we shall find that they do differ . the presbyterians generally own a national church , and have writ much in the behalf of it , as may be seen in the books quoted in the margin * : others look upon it as a prudential thing , and what may lawfully be complyed with ; so mr. tombs ‖ it is no more against the gospel to term the believers of england the church of england , than it is to term believers throughout the world the cahtholick church ; nor is it more unfit for us , to term our selves members of the catholick church ; nor is there need to shew any institution of our lord , more for the one than the other . but those that will not own it to be a true church in respect of such a constitution , or that speak doubtfully of it , do yet assert as much of the parish churches . it s acknowledged by all , that the distribution into parishes is not of divine but humane institution ; but withal , its thought by some a agreeable to the reason of the thing , and somewhat favoured by scripture , and by experience has been found to be of such convenience , advantage , and security to religion , that a person of great eminence hath more than once said b ; i doubt not but he that will preserve religion here in its due advantages , must endeavour to preserve the soundness , concord and honour of the parish churches . and another very worthy person saith c , that the nullifying and treading down the parish churches is a popish design . but whatever opinion others may have of that form , yet all of one sort and another , agree that the churches so called , are or may be true churches . this was the general opinion of the old non-conformists . thus saith a late writer , who , though he is unwilling to grant that they did own the national church to be a true church , yet doth admit ( as he needs must at least ) that they did own the several parishes or congregations in england to be true churches , both in respect of their constitution , and also in respect of their doctrine and worship , and that there were in them no such intollerable corruptions , as that all christians should fly from them . and even those that were in other respects opposite enough to the church , did so declare ; it was , saith mr. baxter , the parish churches that had the liturgy , which mr. h. jacob the father of the congregational party wrote for communion with , against fr. johnson , and in respect to which be called them separatists against whom he wrote . the same i may say of mr. bradshaw , dr. ames , and other non-conformists , whom the congregational brethren think were favourable to their way . and if we will hearken to the abovesaid author , he saith again and again , that the general sence of the present non-conformists both ministers and people , is , that the parishes of england generally are true churches , both as to the matter of them , the people being christians ; and as to the form , their ministers being true ministers , such as for their doctrine and manners deserve not to be degraded . but left he should be thought to incline to one side , i shall produce the testimony of such as are of the congregational way . as for those of new-england , mr. baxter doth say , that their own expressions signify that they take the english parishes that have godly ministers for true churches though faulty . mr. cotton professeth that robinson's denial of the parishional churches to be true churches , was never received into any heart amongst them ; and otherwhere saith , we dare not deny to bless the womb that bare us , and the paps that gave us suck . the five dissenting brethren do declare , we have this sincere profession to make before god and the world , that all the conscience of the defilements in the church of england , &c. did never work in us any other thought , much less opinion , but that multitudes of the assemblies and parochial congregation thereof , were the true churches and body of christ. to come nearer , dr. t. goodwin doth condemn it as an error in those who hold particular churches ( those you call parish-churches ) to be no true churches of christ , and their ministers to be no true ministers , and upon that ground forbear all church-communion with them in hearing , or in any other ordinance , &c. and saith , i acquitted myself [ before ] from this , and my brethren in the ministry . but the church of england is not only thus acknowledged a true church , but hath been also looked upon as the most valuable in the world ; whether we consider the church it self , or those that minister in it . the church it self , of which the authors of the grave and modest confutation thus write ; all the known churches in the world acknowledge our church for their sister , and give unto us the right hand of fellowship , &c dr. goodwin saith , if we should not acknowledge these churches so stated [ i. e. parish-churches ] to be the true churches of christ , and their ministers true ministers , and their order such , and bold communion with them too in the sence spoken of , we must acknowledge no church in all the reformed churches , &c , for they are all as full of mixture as ours . and mr. j. goodwin saith , that there was more of the truth and power of religion in england , under the late prelatical government , than in all the reformed churches in the world besides . if we would have a character of the ministry of the church of england , as it was then , mr. bradshaw gives it , our churches are not inferiour for number of able men , yea and painful ministers , to any of the reformed churches of christ in foreign parts , &c. and certainly the number of such is much advanced since his time . but i cannot say more of this subject than i find in a page or two of an author i must frequently use , to which i refer the reader . before i proceed , i shall only make this inference from what hath been said , that if the church of england be a true church , the churches true churches , the ministry a true ministry , the doctrine found and orthodox , the worship in the main good and allowable , and the defects such as render not the ordinances unacceptable to god , and ineffectual to us ; i think there is much said toward the proving communion with that church lawful , and to justifie those that do join in it ? which brings to the second general , which is to consider , . what opinion the sober and eminent non-conformists have of communion with the church of england ? and they generally hold , . that they are not totally to separate from it ; this follows from the former , and must be own'd by all them that hold she is a true church ; for to own it to be such , and yet to separate totally from it would be to own and disown it at the same time : so say the members of the assembly of divines , thus to depart from true churches , is not to hold communion with them as such , but rather by departing to declare them not to be such . and saith mr. baxter , nothing will warrant us to separate from a church as no church [ which yet is the case in total separation ] but the want of something essential to a church : but if the church have all things essential to it , it is a true church , and not to be separated from . when the church of rome is called a true church , it s understood in a metaphysical or natural sence , as a thief is a true man , and the devil himself , though the father of lies , is a true spirit : but withal she is a false church ( as m r brinsly saith from bishop hall ) an heretical , apostatical , antichristian synagogue : and so to separate from her is a duty . but when the church of england is said to be a true church , or the parochial churches true churches , it s in a moral sense , as they are found churches , which may safely be communicated with . thus doth d r bryan make the opposition , the church of rome , is a part of the universal visible church of christians , so far as they profess christianity , and acknowledge christ their head ; but it is the visible society of traiterous usurpers , so far as they profess the pope to be their head , &c. from this church therefore which is spiritual babylon , god's people are bound to separate , &c. but not from churches which have made separation from rome , as the reformed protestant churches in france , and these of great britain have done , in whose congregations is found truth of doctrine , a lawfull ministry , and a people professing the true religion , submitting to , and joyning together in the true worship of god. such a separation would ( as has been said ) unchurch it . this would be deny christ holds communion with it , or to deny communion with a church with which christ holds communion , contrary to a principle that is , i think , universally maintained , the errour of these men saith mr. brightman * , is full of evil , who do in such a manner make a departure from this church [ by total separation ] as if christ were quite banished from hence , and that there could be no hope of salvation to those that abide there . let these men consider , that christ is here feasting with his members ; will they be ashamed to sit at meat there , where christ is not ashamed to sit ? further , this would be a notorious schism , so the old non-conformists conformists conclude a , because we have a true church , consisting of a lawful ministry , and a faithful people , therefore they cannot separate themselves from us , but they must needs incur the most shameful and odious reproach of manifest schism ; for what is that , saith another b , but a total separation from a true church ? this lastly , would not diminish , but much increase the fault of the separation , as another saith c ; for it is a greater sin to depart from a church , which i profess to be true , and whose ministry i acknowledge to be saving , than from a church which i conceive to be false , and whose ministers i take to have no calling from god , nor any blessing from his hand . this therefore is their avow'd principle , that total separation from the church is unlawful : and this the old non-conformists did generally hold and maintain against the brownists d ; and the dissenting brethren did declare on their part e , we have always professed , and that in those times when the churches of england were the most , either actually overspread with defilements , or in the greatest danger thereof , &c. that we both did and would hold communion with them as the church of christ. and among the present non-conformists , several have writ for communion with the church against those that separate from it , and have in print declared it to be their duty and their practice . so m r baxter f , i constantly joyn in my parish-church in liturgy and sacraments . it s said of m r joseph allen g , that he as frequently attended on the publick worship , as his opportunities and strength permitted h : of mr. brinsley , that he ordinarily attended on the publick worship . dr. collins saith as much of himself i . mr. lye in his farewell sermon doth advise his people to attend the publick worship of god , to hear the best they could , and not to separate , but to do as the old puritans did thirty years before . mr. cradacot in his farewel sermon professeth , that if that pulpit was his dying bed , he would earnestly perswade them to have a care of total separation from the publick worship of god. mr. hickman freely declares , i profess where-ever i come , i make it my business to reconcile people to the publick assemblies , my conscience would fly in my face if i should do otherwise . and mr. corbet as he did hold communion with the church of england k , so saith , that the presbyterians generally frequent the worship of god in the publick assemblies l . it s evident then that it is their principle , and we may charitably believe it is their practice in conformity to it . thus mr. corbet declares for himself , i own parish-churches , having a competent minister , and a number of credible professors of christianity , for true churches , and the worship therein performed , as well in common-prayer as in the preaching of the word , to be in the main sound , and good for the substance or matter thereof : and i may not disown the same in my practice by a total neglect thereof , for my judgment and practice ought to be concordant . and if these two , judgment and practice , be not concordant , it would be impossible to convince men that they are in earnest , or that they do believe themselves while they declare against separation and yet do keep it up . those good men therefore were aware of this , who met a little after the plague and fire to consider ( saith mr. baxter ) whether our actual forbearance to joyn with the parish-churches in the sacrament [ and much more if it was total ] might not tend to deceive men , and make them believe that we were for separation from them , and took their communion to be unlawful : and upon the reasons given in , they agreed such communion to be lawful and meet , when it would not do more harm than good ; that is , they agreed that it was lawful in it self . . they hold that they are not to separate further from such a true church , than the things that they separate for are unlawful , or are conceived so to be ; that is , that they ought to go as far as they can , and do what lawfully they may toward communion with it . for they declare m , that to joyn in nothing , because they cannot joyn in all things , is a dividing practice , and not to do what they can do in that case is schism , for then the separation is rash and unjust n . if therefore the ministerial communion be thought unlawful , and the lay-communion lawful , the unlawfulness of the former doth not bar a person from joyning in the latter . the denying of assent and consent to all and every thing contained in the book of common-prayer , doth not gainsay the lawfulness of partaking in that worship , it being found for the substance in the main , &c. as a judicious person hath observed . this was the case generally of the old non-conformists , who notwithstanding their exclusion from their publick ministry , held full communion with the church of england . we are told by a good hand , that as heretofore m r parker , m r knewstubs , m r vdal , &c. and the many scores suspended in queen elizabeth , and king james's reign ; so also of later times , m r dod , m r cleaver , &c. were utterly against even semi-separation ; i. e. against absenting themselves from the prayers and the lord's supper . so it s affirmed of them by m r ball , they have evermore condemned voluntary separation from the congregations and assemblies , or negligent frequenting of those publick prayers . and some of them earnestly press the people to prefer the publick service before the private , and to come to the beginning of the prayers , as an help to stir up gods graces , &c. and others did both receive the sacrament , and exhort others so to do , as i shall afterward shew . again , if in lay-communion any thing is thought to be unlawful , that is no reason against the things that are lawful ; this was the case of many of the godly and learned non-conformists in the last age , as we are told , that were perswaded in their consciences , that they could not hold communion with the church of england , in receiving the sacrament kneeling without sin ; yet did they not separate from her . indeed in that particular act they withdrew , but yet so , as they held communion with her in the rest . and thus much is owned by those of the present age , as one declares ; the church of england being a true church ( so that a total separation from her is unwarrantable ) therefore communion with her in all parts of real solemn worship , wherein i may joyn with her , without either let or sin , is a duty . so another saith of them ; they are ready and desirous to return to a full union with the parishes when ever the obstacles shall be removed . and again , they hold communion with the parishes , not only in faith and doctrine , but also in acts of worship , where they think they can lawfully do it . this those of the congregational way do also accord to , that they ought in all lawful things to communicate with the churches of england ; not only in obedience to the magistrate ( in which case they also acknowledge it to be their duty as well as others ) but also as they are true churches ; and therefore plead for the lawfulness of hearing the established ministry , and undertake to answer the objections brought against it , whether taken from the ministers ordination * or lives , or the church in which they are ministers , &c. as you may find them in mr. robinson's plea for it of old ; and mr. nye's of late , as they are printed together . upon the consideration of which the latter of these thus concludes , in most of the misperswasions of these latter times , by which men's minds have been corrupted , i find , in whatsoever they differ one from another , yet in this they agree , that it 's unlawful to hear in publick ; which i am perswaded is one constant design of satan in the variety of ways of religion he hath set on foot by jesuits amongst us . let us therefore be the more aware of whatsoever tends that way . of this opinion also is m r tombs ( though he continued an anabaptist ) who has writ a whole book to defend the hearing of the present ministers of england , and toward the close of the work hath given forty additional reasons for it , and in opposition to those he writes against doth affirm , sure , if the church be called mount sion from the preaching of the gospel , the assemblies of england may be called sion , christ's candlesticks and garden , as well as any christians in the world. i shall conclude this with what m r robinson saith in this case ; viz. for my self thus i believe with my heart before god , and profess with my tongue , and have before the world , that i have one and the same faith , spirit , baptism and lord , which i had in the church of england , and none other ; that i esteem so many in that church , of what state or order soever , as are truly partakers of that faith ( as i account thousands to be ) for my christian brethren , and my self a fellow-member with them , of that one mystical body of christ , scattered far and wide throughout the world : that i have always in spirit and affection , all christian fellowship and communion with them , and am most ready in all outward actions and exercises of religion , lawful and lawfully done , to express the same : and withal , that i am perswaded the hearing of the word of god there preached in the manner and upon the grounds formerly mentioned , both lawful , and upon occasion necessary for me and all true christians , withdrawing from that hierarchical order of church-government and ministry , and the uniting in the order and ordinances instituted by christ. thus far he. from what hath been said upon this head we may observe , that though these reverend persons do go upon different reasons , according to the principles they espouse , though they agree not in the constitution of churches , &c. yet they all agree that the parochial churches are or may be ( as i have observed before ) true churches of christ , that communion with such churches is lawful , and that we are to go as far as we can toward communion with them . though they differ about the notion of hearing , as whether it be an act of communion , and about the call of those they hear , yet they all agree in the lawfulness of it . and therefore to separate wholly in this ordinance , and from the parochial churches as no churches , are equally condemned by all . . they hold , that they are not to separate from a church for unlawful things , if the things accounted unlawful are not of so heinous a nature as to unchurch a church , and affect the vitals of religion ; or are not imposed as necessary terms of communion . . if the corruptions are such as do not unchurch a church , or affect the vital parts of religion . so saith m r tombs , not every , not many corruptions of some kind do un-church , there being many in faith , worship and conversation in the churches of corinth , and some of the seven churches of asia , who yet were golden candlesticks , amidst whom christ did walk . but such general , avowed , unrepented of errours in faith , as overthrow the foundation of christian faith , to wit , christ the only mediator betwixt god and man , and salvation by him , corruptions of worship by idolatry , in life by evil manners , as are utterly inconsistent with christianity , till which in whole or in part they are not unchurched . for till then the corruptions are tolerable , and so afford no just reason to dissolve the church , or to depart from it . so m r brinsley , suppose some just grievances may be found among us , yet are they tolerable ? if so , then is separation on this ground intolerable , unwarrantable : in as much as it ought not to be , but upon a very great and weighty cause , and that when there is no remedy . so m r noyes , private brethren may not separate from churches or church-ordinances , which are not fundamentally defective , neither in doctrine or manners , heresy or prophaness . to all which add the testimony of d r owen and m r cotton . the former asserts , that many errours in doctrine , disorders in sacred administrations , irregular walking in conversation , with neglect and abuse of discipline in rulers , may fall out in some churches , and yet not evacuate their church-state , or give sufficient warrant to leave their communion , and separate from them . the latter saith , vnless you find in the church blasphemy , or idolatry , or persecution [ that is , such as is intolerable ] there is no just ground of separation . this is universally own'd : but if any one should yet continue unconvinced , let him but peruse the catalogue of the faults of nine churches in scripture , collected by m r baxter , and i perswade my self he will think the conclusion inferr'd from it to be just and reasonable . observe , saith he , that no one member is in all these scriptures , or any other , commanded to come out and separate from any of all these churches , as if their communion in worship were unlawful . and therefore before you separate from any as judging communion with them unlawful , be sure that you bring greater reasons for it than any of these recited were . . they are not to separate , if the corruptions are not so made the conditions of communion , that they must necessarily and unavoidably communicate in them . m r vines speaks plainly to both of these , the church may be corrupted many ways , in doctrine , ordinances , worship , &c. and there are degrees of this corruption , the doctrine in some remote points , the worship in some rituals of mans invention or custom . how many churches do we find thus corrupted , and yet no separation of christ from the jewish church , nor any commandment to the godly of corinth , &c. to separate . i must in such a case avoid the corruption , hold the communion — but if corruptions invade the fundamentals , the foundation of doctrine is destroyed , the worship is become idolatrous ; and what is above all , if the church impose such laws of her communion as there is a necessity of doing or approving things unlawful , in that case , come out of babylon . the churches of protestants so separated from rome . but if the things be not of so heinous a nature , nor thus strictly required , then communion with a church under defects is lawful , and may be a duty . so saith m r corbet in the name of the present non-conformists , we hold not our selves obliged to forsake a true church as no church for the corruptions and disorders found therein , or to separate from its worship for the tolerable faults thereof , while our personal profession of some errour , or practice of some evil is not required as the terms of our communion . and m r burroughs himself doth grant as much and more ; for he saith , where these causes are not [ viz. the being constrained to profess , believe or practise contrary to the rule of faith , or being deprived of means altogether necessary , or most expedient to salvation ] but men may communicate without sin , professing the truth , and enjoy all ordinances , as the free-men of christ ; men must not separate from a church , though there be corruption in it , to gather into a new church , which may be more pure , and in some respects more comfortable . and as though such corruptions should be imposed as terms of communion , yet if not actually imposed upon us , our communicating in the true part of god's worship is never the worse for the said imposition , as long as we do not communicate in those corruptions , as m r bradshaw doth argue : so though they should be imposed and be unavoidable to all that are in communion , that is not a sufficient reason for a total separation , as it is also own'd ; for saith one , when the corruptions of a church are such as that one cannot communicate with her without sin unavoidably , that seems to me to be a just ground , though not of a positive yet of a negative , though not of a total yet of a partial separation ; it may be a just ground for the lesser , but is not so for the greater . supposing then the corruptions in a church not to be of an heinous nature , not respecting the fundamentals of religion ; supposing again they are not necessarily imposed and unavoidable , then separation for the sake of such is unwarrantable . but to make this the more uncontroulably evident , i shall consider the corruptions as they respect worship , or discipline . in worship , i shall consider the defects of it , in it self , in the ministration , the ministers and those that joyn with it , and shew that these do not disoblige from communion in it , and attendance upon it . . the defects of worship , if not essential , are § consistent with communion , and no just reason for withdrawing from it . this the brownists did acknowledge with some qualification , neither count we it lawful for any member to forsake the fellowship of the church , for blemishes and imperfections , which every one , according to his calling , should studiously seek to cure , &c. so m r cotton , suppose there were and are sundry abuses in the church , yet it was no safe ground of separation . when the sons of eli corrupted the sacrifices of god , their sin was great , yet it was the sin of the people to separate and abhor . thus a reverend person in his farewel sermon doth rightly instruct his auditors , a means to hold fast what you have received , is diligent attendance on the publick ordinances and worship of god , if and when you can enjoy them in any measure according to god's will , though not altogether in the manner you desire , and they should be administred in , &c. though i dare not advise you to join in any thing that is in it self , or in your judgment evil , till you be satisfied about it ; yet i must advise you to take heed of separation from the church , or from what is good , and god's own ordinance , &c. for the fuller proof of which , it may not be amiss to produce the several arguments used by them in confirmation of this truth . as , first , to break off communion , or to refuse it for such defects , would be to look after a greater perfection than this present state will admit of . so the brownists do declare , none is to separate from a church rightly gathered and established for faults and corruptions which may , and , so long as the church consisteth of mortal men , will fall out and arise among them . and m r jenkin argues upon this principle , must not he who will forbear communion with a church till it be altogether freed from mixtures , tarry till the day of judgment , till when we have no promise that christ will gather out of his church whatsoever doth offend ? this was it that amongst other reasons conquer'd the prejudices of that good man m r j. allen , and kept him from separation , of which we have this account , he knew of how great moment it was that the publick worship of god should be maintained , and that its assemblies should not be relinquished , though some of its administrations did not clearly approve themselves unto him ; because upon the account of some imperfections and pollutions in them , supposed or real , to withdraw communion , is evidently to suppose our selves join'd before our time to the heavenly assembly , or to have found such an one upon earth exempt from all mixtures and imperfections of worshippers and worship . the want of this prudent consideration makes many to expect more than can be expected , and to look upon every defect or corruption as intolerable ; to prevent which therefore m r baxter doth give this advice to his brethren , teach them to know that all men are imperfect and faulty , and so is all mens worship of god ; and that he that will not communicate with faulty worship must renounce communion with all the world , and all with him . secondly , they argue , our saviour and the apostles did not separate from defective churches and worship , but communicated in it notwithstanding the corruptions , and therefore it s not unlawful for others so to do . no doubt it was written for our instruction , saith a reverend person , our lord jesus christ ( who was as zealous for purity in god's worship , as much against corrupt mixtures of mens inventions therein as any can pretend to be ) used to attend on the publick worship in his time , notwithstanding the many corruptions brought into it . that he went into their assemblies not to joyn in any worship , but only to bear witness against their corruptions , is no where written ; but rather the contrary is held forth in scripture , when he acknowledgeth himself a member of the church of the jews , approves of and justifies their worship , as right for substance , that salvation might be attained therein , which he denies to be attainable in any other worship , john . . we know ( including himself amongst those that worshipped god aright ) what we worship , for salvation is of the jews . this is sufficiently proved by many a , that christ did communicate with the jewish church , and is granted as well by those of the congregational as b presbyterial way : and yet doctrine , discipline , and worship were much corrupted , of which m r hildersham doth give a specimen c , but especially d r bryan d ; there were many great corruptions in the church of the jews in christ's time , the priests and teachers were ignorant and wicked , and had a corrupt and unlawful entrance into their calling ; and the people were like to the priest , generally notoriously and obstinately ungodly ; and the worship used in that church was wofully corrupt , many superstitious ceremonies , the observation whereof were more strictly urged , than the commandments and ordinances of god , the temple made a den of thieves , the discipline and censures shamefully abused , the doctrine was corrupt in many points ; yet the word tells you , christ ( whose example it binds you to follow , and you profess your selves followers of him in all imitable things ) made no separation from this church , professed himself a member of it , was by circumcision incorporated a member , received baptism in a congregation of that people , was a hearer of their common service and their teachers , allowing and commanding his disciples to hear them , communicated in the passover with the people and the priest ; no more did his apostles make separation from this church after his ascension , till their day had its period , &c. by their example it appears , that till god hath forsaken a church , no man may forsake it , &c. so that we may conclude from hence with m r hildersham , those assemblies that enjoy the word and doctrine of salvation , though they have many corruptions remaining in them , are to be acknowledged as true churches of god , and such as none of the faithful may make separation from . we shall need no further proof of this doctrine than the example of our saviour himself , &c. for why should our saviour use it if it was unlawful ; or why should it be a sin in us , who have not such eyes to pierce into the impiety of mans traditions as he had , as m r bradshaw argues . the same measures were observed also by the apostles after the establishment of the christian church ; this is not to be gainsaid , and is therefore granted by one , in other things rigid more than enough ; i do not say that every corruption in a true church , is sufficient ground of separation from it : the unsoundness of many in the church of corinth , touching the doctrine of the resurrection , and in galatia touching the doctrine of circumcision , and the necessity of keeping the ceremonial law , were not sufficient ground of separation from them ; for the apostles held communion with them , notwithstanding these corruptions . now by parity of reason it will follow , that if separation was not to be allowed from those corrupted churches , then surely not from such as are not so corrupted as they ; so m r cawdrey pleads , corinth had ( we suppose ) greater disorders in it than are to be found ( blessed be god ) in many of our congregations ; why then do they fly and separate from us ? and if our saviour and his apostles did not separate from such churches , much less should we , who may without doubt safely follow the advice given by an author above-quoted ; when you are at a stand think how christ would have carried , what he would have done in the like case with yours , and we may thereby be concluded . thirdly , they further argue , that christ doth still hold communion with defective churches , and not reject the worship for tolerable corruptions in it , and so neither ought we . it is supposed by a worthy person , that there is no such society of christians in the world , whose assemblies , as to instituted worship , are so rejected by christ , as to have a bill of divorce given unto them , until they are utterly as it were extirpate by the providence of god , &c. for we do judge , that where-ever the name of jesus christ is called upon , there is salvation to be obtained ; however the ways of it may be obstructed unto the most by their own sins and errors . and if this may be said of churches , though fundamentally erroneous in worship , then , who shall dare , as another saith , to judge when christ hath forsaken a people who still profess his name , and keep up his worship for substance according to his word , though they do or are supposed to fail in circumstances or lesser parts of duty ? now , this granted , the other will follow , that then we are not to separate from such churches . thus m r hildersham concluded of old from the practice of christ , and observes , . so long as god continueth his word and the doctrine of salvation to a people , so long it is evident that god dwells among them , and hath not forsaken them , &c. and till god hath forsaken a church , no man may forsake it . . no separation may be made from those assemblies , where men may be assured to find and attain salvation , but men may be sure to find and attain salvation in such assemblies , where the ministry of his word , and the doctrine of salvation is contained . so m r vines e , the argument , saith he , of m r brightman is considerable , if god afford his communion with a church by his own ordinances , grace and spirit , it would be unnatural and peevish in a child to forsake his mother , while his father owns her for his wife . i might heap up authorities of this kind , but shall content my self with a considerable one from m r cotton f , who reasons after this manner ; the practice of the brownists is blame-worthy , because they separate where christ keeps fellowship , rev. . . and that he walks with us we argue , because he is still pleased to dispense to us the word of life , and edifies many souls thereby , and therefore surely christ hath fellowship with us ; and shall man be more pure than his maker ? where christ vouchsafes fellowship shall man renounce it ? upon this are grounded the wholesome exhortations of many eminent non-conformists , as that of m r calamy ; you must hold communion with all those churches with which christ holds communion ; you must separate from the sins of christians , but not from the ordinances of christ. of m r r. allein ; excommunicate not them from you , excommunicate not your selves from them with whom christ holds communion . judge not that christ withdraws from all those who are not in every thing of your mind and way . methinks , saith a reverend person in his farewel sermon , where a church as to the main , keeps the form of sound words , and the substantials of that worship which is christs , some adjudged defects in order cannot justifie separation . i dare not dismember my self from that church that holds the head . i think whilst doctrine is for the main sound , christ stays with a church ; and it is good staying where he stays : i would follow him and not lead him , or go before the lamb. to such we find a severe rebuke given very lately by a reverend person ; proud conceited christians are not contented to come out and separate from the unbelieving idolatrous world , but they will separate also from the true church of christ , and cast off all communion with them who hold communion with him . fourthly , they argue , that to separate for such defects and corruptions would destroy all communion . if this should be , saith m r bradshaw then no man can present himself with a good conscience , at any publick worship of god wheresoever ; because ( except it should be stinted and prescribed ) he can have no assurance , but that some errours in matter and form will be committed . so m r ball ; one man is of opinion , that a prescribed form is better than another ; another that a prescribed form is unlawful , &c. in these cases , if the least errour do stain the prayers to others , that they may not lawfully joyn together , with whom shall the faithful joyn at all ? is not this to fill the conscience with scruples , and the church with rents ? such as these must , if they will be true to their own principles , renounce communion with all the world , and be like those that m r baxter tell us he knows , that never communicate with any church , nor ever publickly hear , or pray , or worship god at all , because they think all your ways [ which he directs to m r bagshaw and other non-conformists ] of worship to be bad . with this there can be no continuance in any communion , so much m r burroughs doth maintain ; there would be no continuance in church-fellowship if this [ a separation from a church for corruptions in it ] were admitted ; for what church is so pure , and hath all things so comfortable , but within a while another church will be more pure , and some things will be more comfortable there ? upon the mischievous consequence of this did m r r. allein ground his last advice to his parishioners ; destroy not , saith he , all communion by seeking after a purer church , than in this imperfect estate we shall ever attain . according to this principle [ no communion at all , if not in all ] where shall we rest ? in all society something will offend . with this , lastly , there can be no order , union , or peace in the church ; so m r bains , a person of great experience ; this [ seeking the peace of sion ] reproveth such as make a seression or departure from the church of god , our visible assemblies , either upon dislike of some disorders in administration ecclesiastical , or disallowed forms , and manner of procuring things , which the communion of saints for full complement and perfection requireth . this is not , in my conceit , so much to reform as to deform , to massacre the body and divide the head , &c. and will end in the dissolution of all church-communion ( if it be followed ) as is notoriously evident in the case of m r r. williams of new england , that for the sake of greater purity separated so long , that he owned no church nor ordinances of god in the world ; and at his motion , the people that were in communion with him dissolved themselves , as we have the account from thence . this therefore is one of the doctrines we are to avoid , according to the prudent advice in a book above-cited ; doctrines crying up purity to the ruine of unity , reject ; for the gospel calls for unity as well as purity . fifthly . they argue , that to separate upon such an account is not at all warranted in scripture . thus m r cawdrey ; it is no duty of christs imposing , no priviledge of his purchasing ▪ either to deprive a mans self of his ordinances for other mens sins , or to set up a new church in opposition to a true church , as no church rightly constituted , for want of some reformation in lighter matters . saith mr. blake , we read not of separation in this way [ for the sake of abuses and corruptions ] approved , nor any presidents to go before us in it ; we read a heavy brand laid upon it , jude . these be they who separate themselves , sensual , not having the spirit . so the congregations in new-england declare ; the faithful in the church of corinth , wherein were many unworthy persons and practices , are never commanded to absent themselves from the sacrament because of the same ; therefore the godly in like causes are not presently to separate . it should rather have been infer'd , are not to separate , for so much must be concluded from the premises , if any thing at all . this is accordingly infer'd by mr. noyes ; for brethren to separate from churches and church-ordinances , which are not fundamentally defective , neither in doctrine or manners , in heresy or prophaneness is contrary to the doctrine and practice both of christ and his apostles . unto whom i shall add the testimony of mr. tombs ; separation from a church somewhat erroneous or corrupt in worship or conversation , &c. is utterly dissonant from any of the rules or examples , which either of old the prophets , or holy men , or christ and his apostles have prescribed , is for the most part the fault of pride or bitter zeal , and tends to strife and confusion and every evil work . sixthly , they argue , that there is no necessity for separation for the sake of such corruptions , because a person may communicate in the worship without partaking in those corruptions . it was the opinion of the presbyterian brethren at the savoy-conference , that not only the hearing , but the reading a defective liturgy was lawful to him , that by violence is necessitated to offer up that or none . and if there was a possibility of thus separating the substance from the circumstantial defects in the ministerial use of such worship , much more may this be supposed to be done by those that only attend upon it , and are not obliged by any act of their own to give an explicite consent to all and every thing used in it . . this separation of the good from the bad in divine worship they grant possible . so mr. ball , if some things humane be mixed with divine , a sound christian must separate the one from the other , and not cast away what is of god as a nullity , fruitless , unprofitable , defiled , because somewhat of men is annexed unto them . in the body we can distinguish betwixt the substance and the sickness which cleaveth unto it ; betwixt the substance of a part or member , and some bunch or swelling , which is a deformity , but destroyeth not the nature of that part or member , &c. so m r calamy ; it s one thing to keep our selves pure from pollution , another to gather churches out of churches . . they grant , that what is faulty and a sin in worship is no sin to us , when we do not consent to it : so m r corbet ; my partaking in any divine worship , which is holy and good for the matter , and allowable or passable in the mode for the main , doth not involve me in the blame of some sinful defects therein to which i consent not , and which i cannot redress . so another reverend person in his farewel sermon ; while all necessary fundamental truth is publickly professed and maintained in a church , is taught and held forth in publick assemblies , and the corruptions there ( though great yet ) are not such as make the worship cease to be gods worship , nor of necessity to be swallowed down , if one would communicate in that worship , while any christian ( that is watchful over his own heart and carriage , as all ought ever to be ) may partake in the one , without being active in or approving the other ; there god is yet present , there he may be spiritually worshipped , served acceptably , and really enjoyed . . they grant , that the being present at divine worship is no consent to the corruptions in it . thus m r robinson ; he that partakes with the church in the upholding any evil , hath his part in the evil also . but i deny , as a most vain imagination , that every one that partakes with a church in things lawful , joyns with it in upholding the things unlawful to be found in it . christ our lord joyned with the jewish church in things lawful , and yet upheld nothing unlawful in it . so m r nye ; approbation is an act of the mind , it is not shewed until it be expressed outwardly by my words and gestures . this m r baxter undertakes to prove by several arguments , as that no man can in reason and justice take that for my profession , which i never made by word or deed . that the profession made by church-communion is totally distinct from this . that this opinion would make it unlawful to joyn with any pastor or church on earth , since every one mixeth sin with their prayers . . they say , that corruptions , though foreknown , do not yet make those that are present guilty of them . thus the old non-conformists declare ; it is all one to the people , whether the fault be personal ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise known before-hand , or not known : for if simple presence defile , whether it was known before-hand or not , all presence is faulty . and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned , by reason of the corruptions known , whereof we stand not guilty . if the error be such as may be tolerated , and i am called to be present , by such fault i am not defiled though known before . m r baxter replys to those of a contrary opinion after this manner ; take heed that thus [ by affirming that foreknowing faults in worship makes them ours ] you make not god the greatest sinner and the worst being in all the world. for god foreknoweth all mens sins , and is present when they commit them , and he hath communion with all the prayers of the faithful in the world ; what faults soever be in the words or forms , he doth not reject them for any such failings . will you say therefore that god approveth or consenteth to all these sins ? i know before-hand that every man will sin that prayeth ( by defect of desire , &c. ) but how doth all this make it mine , &c. and he otherwhere adds ; it is another mans fault or errour that you foreknow , and not your own . . it s granted that the fault of another in the ministration of divine worship is none of ours , nor a sufficient reason to absent from it , or to deprive our selves of it . thus m r baxter ; the wording of the publick prayers is the pastors work and none of mine , &c. and why should any hold me guilty of another mans fault , which i neither can help , nor belongeth to any office of mine to help any farther than to admonish him . and that the faults of him that ministers are no sufficient reason to debar our selves of communion in the worship . mr. nye affirms and proves by this argument ; if i may not omit a duty in respect to the evil mixed with it , which is my own , much less may i thus leave an ordinance for the evil that is another mans , no way mine , or to be charged upon me , this were to make another mans sins or infirmities more mine than my own . thus is the case resolved with respect to the cross in baptism ; i may not only , saith one , do that which i judge to be inconvenient , but suffer another to do that which i judge to be unlawful , rather than be deprived of a necessary ordinance , e. g. if either i must have my child baptized with the sign of the cross , or not baptized at all ; i may suffer it to be done in that way , though i judge it an unlawful addition , because the manner concerns him that doth it , not me ( at least not so much ) so long as there is all the essence . he must be responsible for every irregularity , not i. thus jacob took laban's oath though by his idols , &c. after the same manner doth mr. baxter resolve the case in his christian directory , p. . seventhly , they grant , that it is a duty to joyn with a defective and faulty worship where we can have no better . thus the presbyterian brethren at the savoy ; an inconvenient mode of worship is a sin in the imposer , and in the chuser and voluntary user , that may offer god better and will not : and yet it may not be only lawful , but a duty to him , that by violence is necessitated to offer up that or none . this is acknowledged by an author that is far from being favourable to communion with the church ; if the word of god could be no where heard , or communion in sacraments no where enjoyed , but only in such churches that were so corrupt as yours is conceived to be ; it might be lawful , yea and a duty to joyn with you so far as possibly christians could without sin . accordingly mr. baxter declares , that it is a duty to hold communion constantly with any of the parish churches amongst us , that have honest competent pastors when we can have no better , and professeth for his own part ; were i , saith he , in armenia , abassia , or among the greeks , i would joyn in a much more defective form than our liturgy rather than none . and he adds , that this is the judgment of many new england ministers ( to joyn with the english liturgy rather than have no church worship ) i have reason to conjecture from the defence of the synod , &c. now in what cases this is to be presumed , that we can have no better , he shews , . when it is so by a necessity arising from divine providence . . a necessity proceeding from humane laws which forbid it . . a necessity from the injury done to the publick . and . when it is to our own greater hinderance than help , as when we must use none or do worse . in these and the like cases it becomes a duty , and what is otherwise lawful , is thereby made necessary . and he that cannot joyn with a purer worship , than what is publickly established without the breach of humane laws , or the disturbance of the publick peace , or dividing the church of god , or the bringing danger upon himself , is as much , where any of these or the like reasons are , restrained from so doing , as if it did proceed from a natural or providential necessity , that is , the one he cannot do physically and naturally , the other he cannot do morally , honestly , and prudently . having thus far stated the case , and shew'd that its universally owned by those that dissent from the church of england , that communion in a worship not essentially defective and corrupted is lawful ; and that its a received opinion , that where better is not to be had , it s a duty ; and that better is not to be had , where it is not to be had lawfully . i might freely pass on , but because there is a common objection against what has been said , taken from malac. . . cursed be the deceiver , &c. that voweth and sacrificeth to the lord a corrupt thing ; i shall briefly return their answer to it and proceed . to this the old non-conformists reply ; . no argument can be brought from this place to the purpose , but by analogy , which is a kind of arguing of all other most ready at hand , but liable to most exceptions , and apt to draw aside , if care be not had ( which in this case we find not ) to take the proportion in every material point just and true . . the corrupt sacrifice is that which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily and out of neglect , having a male in his flock , but the faithful bringeth himself and his godly desires according to the will of god ; and as for corruptions whether respecting matter or form , they are none of his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to stain or pollute it , &c. . he offers not a corrupt thing who offers the best he hath . . it is to be considered , saith m r ball , that what is simply best , is not best in relation to this or that circumstance or end ; what is best in a time free is not best in a time not free . it is granted , saith m r baxter , that we must offer god the best that we can do , but not the best which we cannot do . and many things must concur ( and especially a respect to the publick good ) to know which is the best . so that before this text can be opposed to what has been said , it must be proved , . that the things in question are corruptions as much prohibited as the blind and lame under the law. . that they are such as a person doth chuse , and it is in his power to help , and offers it when he hath a male in his flock . . that such a corruption as affects not the substance of worship , doth yet alter the nature of it , and makes the whole to be a corrupt thing , and abominable to god. if these things are not , the objection reacheth not the case , and there is no ground from that place for this objection . i shall conclude this head with a remarkable saying of the ministers of new england ; to separate from a church for some evil only conceived , or indeed in the church , which might and should be tolerated and healed with a spirit of meekness , and of which the church is not yet convinced , though perhaps himself be , for this or the like reasons to withdraw from publick communion in word , seals , or censures , is unlawful and sinful . but supposing it may be unlawful to separate from a church for a defective and faulty worship ; yet it may be supposed , that it may be lawful when it is for better edification , and that we may chuse what is for our edification before what is not , and what is more for our edification before what is less . for the decision of which case i shall shew from them , . that as defects and faults in worship , so neither is the pretence of better edification a sufficient reason against communion with a church . sometimes they say it is no better than a mere pretence and imaginary , a seeming contentment of mind , as one calls it . this m r hildersham takes notice of ; some prefer others before their own pastor , only because they shew more zeal in their voice and gesture , and phrase of speech and manner of delivery , though happily the doctrine it self be nothing so wholesome or powerful , or fit to edify their consciences , as the doctrine of their own pastor is , of such he saith , we may wish them more knowledge and judgment . m r baxter observes the same , one thinks that this is the best way , and another that the other is best — and commonly appearance , and a taking tone and voice do more with them than solid evidence of truth . therefore its fit to have a right notion of edification , which , saith a reverend person , lies more in the informing of our judgments , and confirming our resolutions , than in the gusts and relishes of affection . these , as he saith , are indeed of great use to the other , but without them are far from making a person better , and leaving him truly edifyed . again , it may be , and 't is no better than a mere pretence , when the fault is in themselves that complain they do not edifie . m r hildersham charges it upon such ; thou mightest receive profit ( if the fault be not in thy self ) by the meanest of us that preach . and he thus freely again declares himself ; i am perswaded , there is never a minister that is of the most excellent gifts ( if he have a godly heart ) but he can truly say , he never heard any faithful minister in his life that was so mean , but he could discern some gift in him that was wanting in himself , and could receive some profit by him . and therefore they advise to cure the fault before they make use of this plea. so the pious person above-said argues ; how shouldest thou profit by his ministry , if thou come with prejudice , without any reverence or delight unto it , nor dost scarce acknowledge gods ordinance in it ? so m r jenkin directs ; labour for experimental benefit by the ordinances . men separate to those churches which they account better , because they never found those where they were before ( to them ) good — find the setting up christ in your hearts by the ministry , and then you will not dare to account it antichristian . thus a reverend person in his farewel sermon , speaking of supposed defects in the church , doth advise his auditors ; enlarge your care and pains in your preparations ; a right stomach makes good nourishment of an indifferent meal ; you may be warm ( though in a colder air and room than you have formerly been ) if you will put on more cloths before you come : watch your hearts more narrowly , and speak things to your hearts m●re than you have done , eccles. . if the iron be blunt , then must he put to more strength . but supposing it be really for edification , yet this they declare is no sufficient reason for separation . so m r burroughs ; if you be joyned to a pastor , so as you believe he is set over you by christ , to be a pastor to you ; though this man hath meaner gifts than others ; and it would be more comfortable for you to have another pastor , yet this is not enough to cause you to desert him whom christ hath set over you . and so the ministers in new england deliver their minds ; to separate from a church for greater enlargements , with just grief to the church , is unlawful and sinful . so when this question was put , are they not at all times obliged to use the means which are most edifying ? it s answered by a reverend person , they may say at all times , when they have nothing to outweigh their own edification . so that edification may be outweighed , and then it can be no standing and sufficient reason . so m r burroughs declares in this case ; men must consider not only what the thing is in its own nature , but what it is to them , how it stands in reference to their relations — it is not enough to say the thing is in it self better , but is it better in all the references i have and it hath ? is it better in regard of others , in regard of the publick , for the helping me in all my relations ? may it not help one way and hinder many ways ? of the same opinion is m r baxter ; many things , saith he , must concur ( and especially a respect to the publick good ) to know which is the best . so that edification is not to be judged of alone , our own improvement is not to determine us in our actions , and especially not with respect to church-communion , for then other reasons do give law to it and over-rule it . this we see those that dissent from the church in other things agree with her in : and they give several reasons and arguments for it . first , if we were sure we could not profit , yet we must come to do homage to god , and shew reverence to his ordinance . this is m r hildersham's opinion . secondly , the leaving a church for better edification , is built upon a false and dangerous principle , which is that we must always chuse the best . so m r burroughs ; to hold what in its self best must be chosen and done , not weighing circumstances or references is a dividing principle . and afterward he saith , a christian without comparing one thing with another , will hack and hew , and disturb himself and others in the ways of religion . i believe some of you have known those who , whatsoever they have conceived to be better than other , they have presently followed with all eagerness , never considering circumstances , references or consequences , but the thing is good , it must be done ; yet being wearied with this they have after grown loose , in as great an excess the other way . thirdly , this principle of better edification if followed , would bring in confusion . so m r hildersham ; this factious disposition of the hearers of gods word , hath in all ages been the cause of much confusion in the church of god , and greatly hindred the fruit of the gospel of christ. this , saith m r brinsley , the moderate author of the late irenicum [ m r burroughs ] will by no means allow , but condemns as the direct way to bring in all kind of disorder and confusion into the church ; and i think none who are judicious , but will therein subscribe to him . it will not be amiss to transcribe his own words ; it is in it self a better thing to enjoy a ministry of the most eminent gifts and graces than one of lower ; but if this should be made a rule , that a man who is under a pastor who is faithful , and in some good measure gifted , upon another mans coming into the country that is more eminent , he should forsake his pastor and join to the other ; and if after this , still a more eminent man comes , he should leave the former and join to him ; and by the same law a pastor who hath a good people , yet if others be more likely to receive more good , he may leave his own people and go to them , what confusion and disorder would there be continually in the church ; this is condemned also by the new england ministers . this m r cawdrey doth expose ; if a man may lawfully separate from a true church , &c. only with a good mind to serve god in church-institutions , true or conceited by his own light , all the secretaries and separists , donatists , brownists in the world may be justified . this , saith another , speaking of hearing for this reason , is a church-destroying principle ; sure if one member be not fixed , then not another , nor another , &c. and then not the pastor , nor teacher , and so farewel churches . fourthly , this will be endless : so m r burroughs ; men must not separate from a church , though there be corruptions in it , to gather into a new church which may be more pure , and in some respects more comfortable . first , because we never find the saints in scripture separating or raising churches in such a case . and secondly , there would be no continuance in church-fellowship if this were admitted ; for what church is so pure , and hath all things so comfortable , but within a while another church will be more pure , and some things will be more comfortable there ? and he concludes with this prudent maxim ; the general peace of the church should be more regarded than some comfortable accommodations to our selves . so m r baxter ; what if twenty ministers be one abler than another in their several degrees , doth it follow that only the ablest of all these may be joyned with , because that all the rest do worse ? and yet this must be , if edification be always to be consulted , and is to determine us in our choice of ministers , churches , and ordinances . fifthly , they say , edification doth not depend so much upon the external administration of worship , as gods blessing , and that we are not to break the order , peace ▪ and union of the church for the sake of it . the former is asserted by m r hildersham ; it s our sin and shame , and is just cause of humbling to us , if we cannot profit by the meanest minister god hath sent . the power of the ministry dependeth not on the excellency of the teachers gift , but gods blessing . the latter is maintained by m r vines ; it s said , order in an army kills no body , yet without it the army is but a rout , neither able to offend or defend : so haply order in the church converts no body , yet without it i see not how the church can attain her end , or preserve themselves in begetting or breeding up souls to god. therefore is the advice of mr. baxter ; do not think to prosper by breaking over the hedge , under pretence of any right of holiness [ so of edification ] whatsoever , following any party that would draw you to separation . the mischief of which is represented by dr. tuckney ; experience , saith he , hath taught us that the church of god hath been poorly edifyed by those who have daubed up their babel with untempered mortar , &c. when the church is rent by schisms and factions , and one congregation is turned into many conventicles , falsely now called churches , this doth diminish , weaken , and ruine . lastly , when they do grant that edification may serve to guide us , and that we may hear where we can most profit , it s with such limitations and cautions as these ; it must be seldom , in a great case , without offence and contempt . thus mr. hildersham ; i dare not condemn such christians , as having pastors in the places where they live of meaner gifts , do desire ( so they do it without open breach or contempt of the churches order ) to enjoy the ministry of such as have better gifts , &c. so they do it without contempt of their own pastors , and without scandal and offence to them and their people . so again ; you ought not to leave your own pastor at anytime with contempt of his ministry , as when you say or think , alas ! he is no body ; a good honest man , but he hath no gifts , i cannot profit by him . and as if he could not be too cautious in the case , he lays down this as the character of one that doth this innocently ; he only makes right use of the benefit of hearing such as have more excellent gifts than his own pastors , and learns thereby to like his own pastor the better , and to profit more by him . that this is to be but seldom , we have the concurrent testimony of the provincial assembly of london , who upon this question ; would you have a man keep constantly to the minister under whom he lives ? do answer , we are not so rigid as to tye up people from hearing other ministers occasionally , even upon the lords day . but yet we believe 't is most agreable to gospel order upon the grounds forementioned . thus it is resolved also by one of a more rigid way , who puts this question ; whether members of particular churches may hear indifferently elsewhere ? and returns this answer ; god will have mercy and not sacrifice , as distance of habitation , handling such a point . but most certainly members of churches ought mostly to be with their own churches — the imagined content in hearing others , is rather a temptation than motion of the spirit . from all which we may conclude , that the pretence of better edification is no sufficient reason for separation from a church , worship , or ministry , without there be other reasons that do accompany it ; and then it is not for this reason so much as those it is in conjunction with . but admitting this , yet it will hardly be granted to be a reason for separation from the church of england , if the testimony of many worthy persons be of any consideration . thus mr hildersham declares , when he is reproving such as make no conscience to come to the beginning of gods publick worship , and to stay to the end of it ; he thus proceeds , because i see many of them that have most knowledge , and are forwardest professors offend in this way , i will manifest the sin of these men . . they sin against themselves in the profit they might receive by the worship of god — there is no part of gods service , ( not the confession not the prayers , not the psalm , not the blessing ) but it concerns every one , and every one may receive edification by it . this he otherwhere repeats and saith , by the confession , and all other prayers used in the congregation , a man may receive more profit than by many other . of this opinion , as to the most of the prayers in our liturgy , were the old non-conformists ; we are perswaded , that not only some few select prayers , but many prayers and other exhortations may lawfully be used , with fruit and edification to gods people . as for the word preach'd amongst us , mr nye saith , that there is a summ of doctrinal truths , which in the enlargement and application , are sufficient both for conversion and edification , to which the preachers are to assent . and that the word of god interpreted and applyed by preaching in this way , is a choice mercy and gift wherewith god hath blessed this nation for many years , to the conversion and edification of many thousands . and he afterwards ascribes the want of edification to the prejudices of people . such reasonings , saith he , against hearing , though they convince not the unlawfulness of it , yet they leave such prejudices in the minds of them which are tender , as perplex and render hearing less profitable and edifying , even to those that are perswaed of its lawfulness . this m r tombs declares himself freely in ; if we look to experience of former times , there is now ground to expect a blessing from conforming preachers , as well , or rather more , than from preachers of the separated churches . sure the conversion , consolation , strengthening , establishing of souls in the truth , has been more in england from preachers , who were enemies to separation , whether non-conformist to ceremonies or conformists , presbyterial or episcopal , even from bishops themselves , than from the best of the separatists . i think all that are acquainted with the history of things in the last age , will acknowledge that more good hath been to the souls of men , by the preaching of vsher , potter , abbot , jewel , and some other bishops ; by preston , sibbs , taylor , whately , hildersham , ball , perkins , dod , stock , and many thousands , adversaries to the separated churches , than ever was done by ainsworth , johnson , robinson , rigid separatists , or cotton , tho. hooker , and others ( though men of precious memory ) promoters of the way of the churches congregational . and therefore if the bishops and conforming preachers now apply themselves ( as we hope when the heat of contention is more allayed , they will ) to the profitable way of preaching against popery and prophaneness , exciting auditors to the life of faith in christ , &c. there may be as good ground , if not better ( considering how much the spirits of separatists are for their party , and the speaking of the truth in love , and edifying in love , is necessary to the growth of the body , eph. . . ) to expect by them a blessing in promoting the power of godliness , than from the separatists . so that whether we consider the worship or doctrine , or the preaching of it , the church of england in their apprehension doth not want a sufficiency of means for the conversion and edification of souls : and consequently the argument taken from edification , in justification of forsaking the communion of it , is inconclusive and of no force . but this branch of it will be further confirm'd under the third general . but however , this will not be so easily quitted , for supposing the doctrine good , and those that teach it capable ( as far as learning and parts are requisite ) to improve it to the conversion and edification of others ; yet if they themselves are loose and scandalous , it may give just offence , and be thought a sufficient cause to separate from the worship in which such do officiate . . therefore i shall shew , that the badness of the ministers is of it self no sufficient reason to forsake the communion of a church , or to separate from the worship administred in it . what holy m r rogers saith is a great truth ; it is not to be denied , but that the example of ignorant and unreformed , especially notorious persons in the ministry , hath done and doth much harm ; and if either they cannot be convicted , or if their crimes be such as cannot remove them out of their places , there is just cause of grief that such should have any thing to do in gods matters , which are so weighty and to be dealt withal in high reverence . but yet before the objection is admitted , it is to be premised , . that if there be such in the church , it doth not proceed from their conformity to it . for good and pious men of this sort always were and still are in the church . what there were formerly may be read in mr baxter , who thus delivers himself ; when i think what learned , holy , incomparable men , abundance of the old conformists were , my heart riseth against the thoughts of separating from them ; such as m r bolton , m r whately , m r fenner , &c. and abundance other such ; yea such as bishop jewel , bishop grindal , bishop hall , &c. yea and the martyrs too , as cranmer , ridley , hooper himself , &c. what there are now in the church , he also tells us ; i believe there are many hundred godly ministers in the parish-churches of england . and of his own knowledge , saith , i profess to know those of them , whom i take to be much better than my self ; i will say a greater word , that i know those of them whom i think as godly and humble ministers , as most of the non-conformists whom i know . so saith d r bryan ; in some countries i am sure there are many sober , godly , orthodox , able preachers yet in possession of the publick places . . it is to be premised , that this argument , if of any , yet is of no farther force than against the congregations where such are , and so is of none against the church it self where are good as well as bad , nor against parochial communion where such are not . so m r baxter argues ; i doubt not but there are many hundred parish ministers , who preach holily , and live holily , though i could wish that they were more . and what reason have you to charge any other mens sins on them , &c. or to think it unlawful to joyn with the good for the sake of the bad ? this is to condemn the sound for the sake of the infected . having premised this , we shall re-assume the case . and consider how it is stated and resolved by them . . it s granted , that it is not unlawful to joyn with bad ministers in some cases where they may have better . so m r rogers ; as it is far from me to be a patron of such , or to justifie them ; so yet , while we may enjoy the ministry of better , i would not refuse to be partaker of the prayers which are offered by them . . it s granted , that its lawful and a duty to hear and joyn with such where a better cannot be had ; that it is lawful , so m r rogers ; who can blame him , who desireth to pray with better than they be ? and yet better to joyn with them sometime , than to leave the publick assemblies altogether . so m r baxter ; no people should chuse and prefer an ungodly minister before a better ; but they should rather submit to such than have none , when a better by them cannot be had . that its a duty , so the old non-conformists ; the scripture teacheth evidently , that the people must and ought to joyn with them [ unworthy ministers ] in the worship of god , and in separating from the ordinance they shall sin against god. for the worship is of god , and the ministry is of god ; the person unworthily executing his place , is neither set up by some few private christians , nor can by them be removed : and warrant to withdraw themselves from the worship of god , because such as ought not , are suffered to intermeddle with holy things , they have none from god. so m r ball ; to communicate with ministers no better than pharisees in the true worship of god , is to worship god aright , to reverence his ordinances , to relye upon his grace , to hearken unto his voice , and submit unto his good pleasure . this they maintain by several arguments . as , first , such were always in the church , and communion must never have been held with the church , if no communion was to be where such were . so the old non-conformists argue ; if the minister make it unlawful , then all communion in any part of gods worship with such ministers is unlawful , and so the church in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithful in the primitive churches sinned , in holding communion with such , when the priests were dumb dogs that could not bark , and greedy dogs that could never have enough ; when the prophets prophesied lyes , when the priests bought and sold doves in the temple , &c. when they were such and did such things , they were ungodly ministers ; but we never find that the prophets , our saviour , and the apostles , did either forbear themselves , or warn the faithful not to communicate with such in the ordinance of worship . so much m r nye doth grant ; more cannot be objected against our ministers that conform , than might against the scribes and pharisees in christs time ; either in respect of their doctrine ; which was loaden with traditions ; their standing , which was not according to law ; their lives , which were vicious ; yet christ not only permits , but requires us to attend the truths they deliver . secondly , they plead that our saviour himself did communicate where such did officiate . so d r bryan ; in some countries , i am sure there are many sober , godly , orthodox , able preachers , &c. and if you know any country where it is worse , consider if christ himself did not joyn with worse . this is attested by another reverend person ; our saviour christ used to attend on the publick worship in his time , notwithstanding such formalists and superstitious ones , as the scribes and pharisees did officiate in it . thirdly , they say that the sin of the minister is not theirs , nor doth bring any detriment to them , though they communicate with him . so m r baxter ; a ministers personal faults may damn himself , and must be matter of lamentation to the church , who ought to do their best to reform them , or get better by any lawful means ; but in case they cannot , his sin is none of theirs , nor doth it make his administration null or ineffectual , nor will it allow you to separate from the worship which he administreth . so the ministers sent to oxford do assert ; some evil men may and always have de facto been officers and ministers in the church , &c. and the wickedness of such men did not null or evacuate their ministerial acts , for our saviour would have the scribes and pharisees heard while they sate in moses chair , &c. and that the ministrations in such a case are not invalid , and that the people suffer not by it they further prove : . because they officiate not in their own name . so the old non-conformists ; it hath evermore been held for a truth in the church of god , that although sometimes the evil hath chief authority in the ministration of the word and sacraments ; yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name but in christs , and minister by his commission and authority , we may use their ministry both in hearing the word and receiving the sacraments ; neither is the effect of christs ordinance taken away by their wickedness . . the vertue of the ordinance doth not depend upon their goodness but gods promise . so m r rogers saith of prayer ; if this burden [ of bad ministers ] must be born , i ask , if among many sweet liberties we enjoy , we may not joyn in prayer with them , if we can pray in faith , seeing their unworthiness cannot withhold the fruit of gods promise from us which is to one kind of prayer as well as another . so saith m r cradacot of the word ; take heed , saith he , of being leavened with prejudice against the ministry of the word , because of the misdemeanors or miscarriage of the minister . it is the word of the lord which converts , not the person of the dispenser or speaker . hence it was that the ministry of the scribes and pharisees was not to be rejected but to be esteemed , so long as they failed not in the substance thereof , &c. i conceive its a rare thing for unconverted ministers to convert , and yet we must remember not to tye the efficacy of the word and sacraments to the goodness or badness of a ministers person . so when it s objected ; how can we expect a blessing upon the labours of such though they preach truth ? mr. nye replys . answ. . the mixtures in sermons are nearest , the irregularities of their calling next , the sins of their conversations furthest from their doctrine , and therefore have less efficacy at such a distance to prejudice it . answ. . it s gods word and not their own they preach , &c. . that if persons themselves do believe and are sincere , they are , notwithstanding such a ministry , accepted . the sacrifice of a faithful elkanah , saith one , was pleasing to god , even when hophni and phineas were priests . from all which we find some declaring , that notwithstanding this they would communicate . so a reverend person ; the peoples prejudices against the liturgy , are grounded for the most part upon the wicked lives of those that are the most constant readers and frequenters of it [ doubtless the author if he had considered this , would rather have said that they are grounded upon the wicked lives of some of those that read and frequent it . ] i shall never upon that account cease to joyn in prayers and to hear sermons . others we find exhorting their auditors to attend even upon such . so mr r. fairclough in his farewel sermons ; get all good from , shew all duty ▪ to him that follows — if he should be weak , or evil , yet while he preacheth truths , while he sits in moses chair , hear him seriously , and carry your selves towards him as becomes a people to their minister . i have thus far considered the case of scandalous ministers , because many make it an objection , as well those that are not concerned as those that are . otherwise it must be acknowledged , that england was never better provided with a learned and pious ministry than at present ; who have as good understanding , preach as good doctrine , do as much good by their preaching as any others , as a late writer doth confess . but though many congregations are well supplied with a pious , able , and industrious ministry , yet there are few or none but what have some , more or less amongst the laity , that are ( as it may be supposed ) not fit to be received into communion with a church , or to be communicated with . this brings me to the next thing in worship , which is , . the case of mixed communion . this is a plea , saith mr. vines , that is plausible to easie capacities , because it pretends to set up holiness of ordinances and people , but what the eminent dissenters do utterly disclaim ; mr. vines saith it is donatistical , and others , as mr. brinsley and mr. jenkin , that its the common plea or pretence which for the moct part hath been taken up by all schismaticks in defence of their separation from the church ; and therefore that it is necessary the people should be untaught it , as mr. baxter doth advise . and as they do disclaim it , so they declare that those that separate upon this account do it very unjustly a ; that the scandals of professors are ground of mourning , but not of separation b ; that there may be a sufficient cause to cast out obstinate sinners , and yet not sufficient cause for one to leave the church , though such be not cast ●ut c . that the suffering of prophane and scandalous livers to continue in the church , and partake in the sacrament , is doubtless a great sin ; yet the godly are not presently to separate from it . there is , saith m r burroughs , an error on both sides ; either those that think it concerns them not at all with whom they come to the sacrament , or those that if they do what they can to keep the scandalous away , and yet they should be suffered to come , that they themselves may not come to partake of it . this both the presbyterians and independents so far agree in ; and for this their opinion they urge several arguments . first , it s no where commanded , but is a vain pretending to holiness above rule and example , saith m r vines . it s no duty , as he elsewhere saith , because there is no command ; it s no duty , and therefore we read not this word , come forth , in any of the epistles written to the seven churches , against which christ saith he hath such and such things . they that lived in the impurer are not called forth into the purer , but there are promises made to them that keep themselves pure , and duties injoyned them toward the impurer part . for we may not make every disease the plague . shall the sons of god , the angels , forsake the lords presence , because satan came also amongst them , &c. the provincial assembly of london doth affirm ; in the church of corinth was such a profane mixture at the sacrament , as we believe few , if any of our congregations can be charged withal : and yet the apostle doth not perswade the godly party to separate , much less to gather a church out of a church . from which consideration mr. tombs concludes ; sure it can be no sin in any person to joyn in the true worship and service of god with any , if he have no command to withdraw himself from that service because of their presence , nor power to exclude them , and yet is bound to the duties there performed . nay , they do not only plead that it s not commanded , but that its forbidden and unlawful . so m r hooker ; to separate from a church because of the sin of some worshippers is unlawful . so the new england ministers do declare ; as separation from a church , wherein prophane and scandalous livers are tolerated , is not presently necessary : so for the members thereof , otherwise worthy , hereupon to abstain from communion with such a church , in the participation of the sacraments , is unlawful . secondly , they plead , that the communicating in gods service with open sinners , whom the godly in some of our assemblies are enforced to communicate with , is not sufficient to make such prophane , or to pollute to them the holy things of god : so the old non-conformists . so m r vines ; the presence of wicked men at gods ordinances , pollutes not them that are neither accessary to their sin , nor yet to their presence there . this m r burroughs disclaims ; you are not defiled by the meer presence of wicked men in the sacrament ( for that is a meer deceit and gull , that some would put upon men that differ from them ) but thus are you defiled if you do not your duty , and the uttermost you are able , to purge them out . but if this be done according to the power and capacity persons are in , it s universally granted that the innocent shall not suffer for the nocent . so mr. ball ; the precept of debarring scandalous offenders bindeth them to whom god hath given this power , and them only so far as god hath put it in their power . but god regularly doth not leave that power in the hand of one single steward , or some few private christians — and if the steward , or one or few private christians , cannot debar the unworthy from the lords table , it is manifest the ordinance of god is not defiled to them by the presence of the wicked , whom they desire to reform or expel , but cannot , because power is not in their hand to do it lawfully . this they confirm , . from the examples of the prophets and good men , who of old joyned with many that were notoriously stained with gross sins ; from the practice of our saviour that communicated with such in the publick service of god ; from the practice of christians in apostolical times , all which the old non-conformists do insist upon . this is also pleaded by those of new-england and others . this would make all the sins of the congregation to be ours . so m r baxter ; if you be wanting in your duty to reform it , it is your sin ; but if bare presence made their sin to be ours , it would also make all the sins of the assembly ours . from all which it appears that their sence is , that scandalous members are no sufficient reason for separation ; for that must be , either be cause it s commanded in scripture , or that those that do communicate with such , are in so doing corrupted also ; but if neither of these be , then we may safely communicate with such , or in a church where such are without sin . thirdly , to separate upon this ground , is to maintain a principle destructive to the communion of the church visible , which consists of good and bad . this m r cotton is peremptory in ; it is utterly untrue to say that christ admits not of any dead plants to be set in his vineyard , or that he takes not to himself a compounded body of living and dead members , or that the church of god is not a mixed company , &c. from the ill effects of which , m r cartwright used to call this separation , upon pretence of greater purity , the white devil . and because there are some scriptures that seem to look this way , and are made use of by those that make mixed communion an argument for separation ; therefore they have taken off the force of them . if a brother be a fornicator , &c. the apostle exhorteth not to eat with him . to this they answer , that if it be meant of excluding such an one from church-communion , it must be done by the church and not a private person . but you are not commanded to separate from the church , if they exclude him not ; so m r baxter , &c. that it concerns not religious but civil communion , and that not all civil society or commerce , but familiar only . for which they produce several reasons , . they argue from the notion of eating bread , which is a token of love and friendship in phrase of scripture , not to partake of or to be shut from the table , is a sign of familiarity broken off . so mr. ball , &c. . the eating which is here forbidden is allowed to be with an heathen , but it s the civil eating which is only allowed to be with an heathen ; therefore it s the civil eating which is forbidden to be with a brother . so mr jenkin , &c. . the eating here forbidden is for the punishment of the nocent not of the innocent . to these there are added others by the old non-conformists . as for other objections they are also undertaken by the same hands , and to which m r baxter's answer is sufficient ; if you m●●k all the texts in the gospel , you shall find that all the separation which is commanded in such cases ( besides our separation from the infidels and idolatrous world , or antichristian and heretical confederacies , and no-churches ) is but one of these two sorts , . either that the church cast out the impenitent by the power of the keys . or , . that private men avoid all private familiarity with them ; but that the private members should separate from the church , because such persons are not cast out of it , shew me one text to prove it if you can . this , saith m r vines , hath not a syllable of scripture to allow or countenance it . but supposing it be allowed that we ought not to separate from a church , where corrupt members are tolerated or connived at under some present circumstances ( as for want of due proof , or through particular favour ) yet it seems to be allowable where there is no discipline exercised , or taken care of . for then we are without an ordinance . to avoid this objection , i shall consider , . the case with respect to discipline , and shall § shew from them , . that the want of that or defects in it are no sufficient reason for separation . . what discipline is exercised or taken care of in the church of england . the former of these they do own and prove . first , as discipline is not necessary to the being of a church . this was of old maintained by m r cartwright , who thus argues ; that church assemblies are builded by faith only on christ the foundation , the which faith so being , whatsoever is wanting of that which is commanded , or remaining of that which is forbidden , is not able to put that assembly from the right and title of so being the church of christ — for though there be many things necessary for every assembly , yet they be necessary to the comely and stable being , and not simply to the being of the church . and afterward he gives an instance in the dutch assemblies ( or lutheran churches ) which , he saith , are maimed in discipline . so d r t. goodwin ; whereas now in some of the parishes of this kingdom , there are many godly men that do constantly give themselves up to the worship of god in publick , &c. these notwithstanding their mixture and want of discipline , i never thought for my part , but that they were true churches of christ , and sister churches , and so ought to be acknowledged . so that if discipline be not essential to a true church , and a true church is not to be separated from ( as has been proved above ) then the want of discipline is no sufficient reason for separation . secondly , this they further prove by an induction of particulars . this way mr. blake proceeds in ; discipline was neglected in the church of israel , yet none of the prophets or men of god ever made attempt of getting up purer select churches , or made separation from that which was in this sort faulty . all was not right in the exercise of discipline in the churches planted by the apostles , some are censured as foully faulty , &c. yet nothing heard by way of advice for any to make separation , nor any one instance of a separatist given . to come lower , we are told by a learned person , that the helvetian or switzerland churches claim to be churches , and have the notes , word , and sacraments , though the order of discipline be not settled among them , and i am not he that shall blot out their name . to come nearer home , it was so in the late times when this was wanting , as was acknowledged a , and of which mr. vines saith b , we know rather the name than the thing . and if we shall look into the several church-assemblies amongst the dissenters , we shall find , that there are many preachers without full pastoral charge , as it is acknowleded , and that have little authority over their flocks in this kind , that have not so much as the name of discipline amongst them . and so they have little reason to justifie themselves in a separation by such an argument , that will as well wound themselves as those they bend it against ; and they that do so are guilty of sin. so mr. baxter ; many that observe the pollution of the church by the great neglect of holy discipline , avoid this error by turning to a sinful separation . i shall conclude this with that grave advice of dr. owen ; when any church , whereof a man is by his own consent antecedently a member , doth fall in part or in whole from any of those truths which it hath professed , or when it is overtaken with a neglect of discipline or irregularities in its administration ; such a one is to consider , that he is placed in his present state by divine providence , that he may orderly therein endeavour to put a stop unto such defections , and to exercise his charity , love , and forbearance towards the persons of them whose miscarriages at present he cannot remedy . in such cases there is a large and spatious field for wisdom ▪ patience , love and prudent zeal to exercise themselves . and it is a most erverse imagination , that separation is the only cure for church disorders . if this advice be good in one case , it is so in another ; and if it were well understood , and faithfully followed , this argument would be of little or no force . . i shall shew how little this plea of the defective discipline reaches the case . it s granted that there is such a power and authority of ecclesiastical discipline resident in the church of england , that if open and scandalous persons are not cast out , the fault is in the governours , for the law takes order they shall be , as d r bryan saith a . and the power of suspension put thereby into the ministers hands is so evident , that after d r collins had proved it from the rubricks , canons , &c. he concludes b its plain that the judgment and practice of the church of england in all times , ever since it was a church , hath been to suspend some from the table of the lord. so that if there be defects , through some past and present obstructions in the exercise of discipline , yet cannot the church properly stand charged with them , as is acknowledged c ; or whatever may be charged upon the church , there can be no sufficient cause from a defect , remisness or corruption therein , for a separation from it . this was the constant judgment of the old non-conformists , which i shall transcribe from a grave author ; those , saith he , that for many years together , during the reign of the three last princes , denied to come up to a full conformity to this church , had a low opinion of the discipline then exercised ( of which they have left behind them large evidences ) yet how tender were they of the churches honour to keep christians in communion ? how zealous were they against separation ? as may appear in the labours of m r parker , m r paget , m r ball. m r brightman laid us low enough , when he did not only parallel us with luke-warm laodicea , but made that church the type and we the antitype , by reason of our discipline ; yet how zealous is he against separation from these assemblers , and breaks out in these words ; therefore their error is wicked and blasphemous , who so forsake the church , as if christ were altogether banished thence . having thus far considered what opinion the graver sort of the non-conformists have of communion with a church , and what rules they do lay down about it , and shew'd that according to those rules , separation from the church is unlawful . i shall close all with the last advice given by a reverend person to his parishioners in a farewel sermon in these words ; take heed of extreams . it is the ordinary temptation in a time of differences , to think we cannot run too far from them we differ from , and so whilst we decline one rock we split upon another . remember the old non-conformists were equal enemies to superstition and separation . maintain ( i beseech you ) sober principles , such as these are , that every defective ministry is not a false ministry ; that sinful super-additions do not nullifie divine institutions ; that sinful defects in ordinances do not hinder the saving effects of them . that there is a difference betwixt directing a worship , prescribing things simply evil and manifestly idolatrous , and directing about worship , things doubtfully good being injoyned , but the unquestionable substance of worship being maintained . this latter doth not justifie separation . and that the supposed corruptions in the church of england are of that nature , as do not affect the substance of it , nor are such but what may be safely communicated in , i shall now proceed to shew from them . . i shall consider what opinion the eminent non-conformists have had of the several practices in the church of england that are injoyned upon those that hold lay-communion with it , which respect forms , gestures , time , &c. in general they acknowledge that they are things tolerable , and what no church is without more or less d. . that they are not sufficient to hinder communion . . that they are but few e . first , forms , and so it s required of the members of the church that they joyn in the use of liturgy or common-prayer . for the better understanding their judgment in this matter , i shall shew what their opinion is of forms of prayer , of publick forms , of forms prescribed , and of that particular form of divine service used in this church . . the use of forms is declared by them to be a thing lawful in it self , and what god hath left us at liberty to use or not to use as we see occasion . so mr. ball ; the word of god doth not prescribe any particular form , stinted or not stinted , as necessary , but doth warrant both as allowable ; for where nothing is in particular commanded touching the external form of words and order , in which our petitions should be presented to the lord , there we are left at liberty . and to put religion in reading or uttering words in a stinted or conceived form , what is it less than superstition ? of the same mind is mr. baxter and others g . and even dr. owen , though he doth disallow the composing forms of prayer for our own private use , yet at the same time declares h , that he doth not argue against forms of prayer as unlawful to be used . and he adds a little after ; if they appear not contrary unto , or inconsistent with , or are not used in a way exclusive of that work of the holy spirit in prayer , which we have described from scripture , &c. i shall not contend with any about them . but they do not only assert , but they also undertake to prove the lawfulness of forms i , from the nature , use , and ends of prayer , and charge the contrary opinion with enthusiasm k , and novelty l . secondly , as to forms in publick , they declare , . that it is lawful to use them , and that this was the tenent of all our best and most judicious divines m this dr. owen is cautious of denying , who saith , supposing that those who make use of , and plead for forms of prayer , especially in publick , do in a due manner prepare themselves for it by holy meditation , &c. i do not judge that there is any such evil in them as that god will not communicate his spirit to any in the use of them . they do not only grant it lawful to use them , but that it 's expedient . so mr. egerton declares , as for the publick congregation , special care must be had that nothing be done in praying , preaching or administring the sacraments , but what is decent and orderly , because there many eyes do see us , and many ears hear us ; and upon this account , it is expedient for the most part to keep a constant form both of matter and words . mr. bradshaw pleads for it ( as mr. gataker informs us in his life ) for the avoiding hesitation , which in prayer is more offensive than in other discourse . and when in a late collection of sermons we find it complained of , that in our days some have such schismatical phrases , notions , and doctrines in preaching , praying , and praising , that a sober christian cannot say , amen ; it renders a form so much the more considerable . . they declare that publick forms were universally used . so mr. clark saith , that set forms of prayer are according to the practice of all churches , even the best reformed ; yea , and mr. smith himself saith , upon the lords prayer ( though as then he was warping , and afterwards wandred far in the ways of separation ) that it was the practice of the ancient church , and of all the reformed churches in christendom , of the churches immediately after the apostles ; nay ( saith he ) of the church in the time of the apostles , as may be probably gathered out of cor. . . this hath also been the practice of the best lights that ever were set up in the churches of christ. . accordingly this was the practice of the old non-conformists . so mr. clark ; it is very well known that the flower of our own divines went on in this way , when they might have done otherwise , if they had pleased , in their prayers before sermons . this we are told of mr. bradshaw and mr. cartwright a . and we find mr. hildersham's prayer before sermon printed b , and others . this was so universally and constantly practised , that mr. clark tells us c , that the first man who brought conceived prayer into use in those parts where he lived , was mr. sam. crook , who dyed but in the year . thirdly , as to prescribed forms and liturgies , of this mr. ball saith ; i have shewed the use of a stinted liturgy lawful and allowable by the word of god , of ancient use in the churches of christ , approved by all reformed churches , which is a very convenient method for the consideration of their judgment in the case . . they grant that they are lawful , its contrary to no precept or commandment directly or by lawful consequence , saith mr. ball. so mr. norton of new-england doth determine ; such things being observ'd as are to be observed , it may be lawful to use forms of prayers , &c. prescribed in the church ; neither are the churches which use them guilty of superstition , will-worship , and violating the second commandment . and dr. owen himself complys with it , who yields , that men or churches may agree upon a prescribed form by common consent , as judging and avowing it best for their own edification ; and only argues against prescribing such forms of prayer universally , in opposition , and unto the exclusion of free prayer . . they grant that they are not only lawful , but that there are footsteps of this way of worship both in the old and new testament , as mr. tombs and others have shewed , and mr. ainsworth himself ( that did otherwise argue against them ) doth confess d . . they grant that they are very ancient in the christian church : the christian churches of ancient times for the space of this years at least , if not from the apostles time have had their stinted liturgies , saith mr ball e : and they answer objections to the contrary f . they grant that in the best reformed , nay in all reformed churches , they are not only used and tolerated , but also useful and expedient . that those amongst us , to whom the use of the common-prayer hath been thought most burdensome , have from time to time professed their liking and approbation of a stinted liturgy , as mr. ball assures us . . that they thought it altogether unlawful to separate from a church for the sake of stinted forms and liturgies . this is not only frequently affirmed by mr. ball g , but little less even by mr. norton h , who saith , it is lawful to embrace communion with churches , where such forms in publick worship are in use ; neither doth it lye as a duty on a believer , that he disjoyn and separate himself from such a church : and they give this reason for it , that then they must separate from all churches . so m r baxter , &c. is it not a high degree of pride to conclude , that almost all christs churches in the world for these thirteen hundred years at least to this day , have offered such worship unto god , as that you are obliged to avoid it ; and that almost all the catholick church on earth this day is below your communion for using forms ; and that even calvin and the presbyterians , cartwright , hildersham , and the old non-conformists were unworthy your communion . i know there are several objections against forms of prayer , but i know also that these are answered by them . but since the most common is , that of quenching and stinting the spirit ; i shall briefly give their sence of it . they say , . to say that persons should use no set form , but pray as moved by the spirit , is a fond errour . . they say , that the spirit instructeth us what to ask , not in what phrase of speech . it stirreth up in us holy desires , but giveth not ability suddenly and without help to express and lay open our hearts in fit method and significant words — ability of speech is a common gift of the spirit , which the lord bestoweth upon good and bad , &c. . that the measure of the spirit standeth not in words and forms , but in fervent sighs and groans . . that there is nothing letteth , but that in such forms the hearers hearts may profitably go with the same both to humble , to quicken , and to comfort . and d r owen cannot deny but that they may be for edification , and that persons in the use of them may have communion with god. . they say that the scriptures insisted upon in this case are grounded upon mistakes , and are misapplyed , as m r tombs in particular hath clearly manifested . fourthly , i shall consider what their opinion is as to the english liturgy or common prayer , both as to the liturgy it self and communion in it . as to the liturgy it self , it s acknowledged , . that the matter for the most part is good , sound and divine , and that there is not any doctrinal passage in any of the prayers , that may not bear a good construction , and so amen may be said to it , as d r bryan with others do maintain . . that as no church for this years has been without its publick forms , so ours is the best . so the old non-conformists ; compare the doctrines , prayers , rites at those times [ throughout ] in use in the churches with ours , and in all these ( blessed be the name of the lord ) we are more pure than they and it s not much short that we find in m r baxter in the name of the present non-conformists . . that which is accounted faulty is tolerable , and hinders not but that its acceptable to god , and edifying to pious and well-disposed persons . tolerable . so m r corbet ; the worship contained in the liturgy may lawfully be partaked in , it being found for substance in the main , and the mode thereof being laudable in divers forms and orders , and passable in the most , though in some offensive , inconvenient , or less perfect . acceptable to god. so the old non-conformists ; in them that join with the prayers , according to christs command ( and liberty of absence from christ hath not been shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , we hold the prayers to be an holy acceptable sacrifice to god , &c. edifying to well-disposed persons . to this purpose m r hildersham , m r rogers , &c. and accordingly m r corbet professeth his own experience ; though i judge their form of worship to be in many respects less perfect than is desired , yet i have found my heart spiritually affected and raised towards god therein , and more especially in receiving the lords supper . i judge this form may be use formally by the formal , and spiritually by those that are spiritual . it is my part to make the best of it , being the established form. as to communion in the liturgy , it is granted , . that there is no cause to renounce it , or the communion of the church for it i , and that so to do is a sin k . . that all the reformed churches in christendom , do commonly profess to hold communion with the english churches in the liturgy , if they come among us where it is used l . . it s declared on the part of the old non-conformists , that they ordinarily and constantly used the communion-book in their publick ministrations m ; and that the people generally were in their days satisfied in it n . and for the present it s declared , we can lawfully not only hear common-prayer , but read it our selves o . i shall not trouble the reader with the several objections against the liturgy , and the answers return'd to them by the old and present non-conformists , but shall content my self with that , which it seems was much insisted upon in the days of m r ball , and their reply to it . the liturgy in the whole matter and form thereof is too like unto the mass-book . if the liturgy be antichristian , it is so either in respect of the matter or of the form. not of the matter ; for that which properly belonged to antichrist , the foul and gross errors , is purged out . not of the form ; for order and phrase of speech is not properly antichristian . . that the english liturgy is gathered according to the ancients , the purest of them , and is not a collection out of the mass-book , but a refining of that liturgy which heretofore had been stained with the mass , &c. and is not a translation of the mass , but a restitution of the ancient liturgy . thus saith that learned person and much more , to whom many others do likewise consent . and in this mr. tombs is so zealous , that he concludes ; i cannot but judge that either much ignorance , or much malice it is that makes any traduce the english common-prayer book , as if it were the popish mass-book , or as bad as it , and to deter men from joyning with those prayers and services therein , which are good , as if it were joyning with antichrist the pope , ( when they can hardly be ignorant that the martyrs in queen mary ' s days were burnt for it ) is impudent falsehood . having thus far considered the forms , i shall now § proceed to shew what their opinion is of the gestures required in lay-communion , such as kneeling at the sacrament , and standing up at the creed and gospels . as to kneeling , . it s granted that the posture in the sacrament is not determined . so mr. baxter ; i never yet heard anything to prove kneeling unlawful , there is no word of god for or against any gesture . . it is granted whatever the gesture of our saviour in it was , yet that doth not oblige . this m r tombs hath undertaken to shew , . because this gesture seems not to have been of choice used by christ. . because s t paul omits the gesture , which he would not have done , if it had been binding . . he mentions the night , and calls it the lords supper , and if the time be not necessary , much less the gesture . . if the gesture doth oblige , then christians must use the self same that christ used . . it is granted that the nature of the ordinance doth not forbid kneeling . so m r bains , kneeling is not unbeseeming a feaster , when our joy must be mingled with reverent trembling . so m r baxter , the nature of the ordinance is mixed . and if it be lawful to take a pardon from the king upon our knees , i know not what can make it unlawful to take a sealed pardon from christ by his ambassador upon our knee . hence m r bayley reckons it as an error of some independents , that they accounted sitting necessary as a rite significant of fellowship with christ , and a part of our imitation of him , and for both these reasons , declared it necessary to keep on their hats at the time of participation . . it is granted not to be idolatrous . so m r bains . kneeling is neither an occasion , nor by participation idolatry : kneeling never bred bread-worship . and our doctrine of the sacrament , known to all the world , doth free us from suspicion of adoration in it . to these m r tombs adds , . that the papists adore not the bread at putting into their mouths , but at the elevation . it being inconsistent with their principles to worship that which is not above them . . that the worship of god not directed to a creature , but before it , as an occasional object of adoration to god is not idolatry . . that yet in the church of england the elements are not occasionally so , but the benefits of christ in the lords supper ; and . kneeling is not to the bread , but as the signification of an humble and grateful mind , as he shews from the rubrick . thly , those that do account it inconvenient , yet account it not to be unlawful . thus m r cartwright , kneeling in receiving the sacrament , being incommodious in its own nature , and made far more incommodious by popish superstition , is not therefore so to be rejected , that we should abstain from the sacrament ( if we cannot otherwise be partakers of it ) because the thing is not in its own nature unlawful . so it s said of the old nonconformists , kneeling at the sacrament was disliked by all , but yet thought tolerable , and that it might be submitted to by some of the most learned . from all which we may conclude with mr. vines , that the posture being a circumstance of action , as well as the time and place , is not of the free-hold of the ordinance ; and with mr. baxter , that those that think they must not receive , kneeling , think erroneously . as for standing up at the creed , &c. mr. baxter saith , his judgement is for it , where it is required , and where not doing it would be divisive and scandalous . nay elsewhere he saith , that t is a convenient praising gesture , &c. thus i have considered the most material points , in which the lay-members of the church of england are concern'd , and shew'd that the lawfulness of the things injoyned upon such , is declared and justified by the suffrage and judgement of as eminent nonconformists as have lived in the several ages since that unhappy controversie was first set on foot amongst us . and now what remains , but that every one concerned set himself seriously and impartially to consider it ; and it becomes such so to do when they go against the stream of the most experienced writers of their own party , who might pretend to understand the case as well , if not better than any that were conversant in it . it becomes such , when they bury that under the condemnation of false worship , which the lord , the author of all truth , doth allow in his service . when they forsake the prayers of the congregation , and depart from the table of the lord , and break off society and communion with the churches of christ , &c. when they expose religion to contempt , and the truth of god to reproach , by the rents and divisions in the church , as m r ball doth represent it . it becomes them , when our division gratifieth the papists , and greatly hazardeth the protestant religion , and by it we may lose all which the several parties contend about , as mr. baxter hath proved . it becomes them when the church of england is the bulwark of the protestant religion amongst us at home , and that according to the noted saying of mr. egerton , the withdrawing totally from it , would more effectually introduce popery , than all the works of bellarmine . it becomes them when this is the bulwark of it abroad , and all the reformed churches in the world have a venture in this bottom , which if compar'd to a fleet , the church of england must be acknowledged to be the admiral . and if it go ill with this church so as that miscarry , there is none of the churches of christ this day under heaven , but are like to feel it ; as m r brinsley discourses . lastly , it becomes them when divisions and separations draw down the displeasure of god and lay us open to his judgements . therefore dr. bryan after he hath largely insisted upon the argument and the present case amongst us doth thus apply himself , o that i could prevail with you , to lay sadly to heart the greatness of the sin of divisions , and the grievousness of the punishment threatned against it , and hath been executed for it ; and that the leaders and encouragers of private christians to make this sinful separation , would read oft , and me ditate upon s t jude's epistle to v. . and that the multitudes that are willing to be led by them would follow the prescription of the means here to preserve or recover themselves from this seduction , v. , . and that both would leave off their reviling the government ecclesiastical , and the ministers that conform , and submissively behave themselves by the example of michael , &c. i shall conclude the whole with the peaceable and pious advice of mr. bains . let every man walk within the compass of his calling . whatsoever lyeth not in us to reform , it shall be our zeal and piety to tolerate , and with patience to forbear , especially in things of this nature , which concern not so much the outward communion with god or man essentially required in a visible state , as the due ordering of business in the said communion , wherein there be many superfluities and defects , silvâ tamen ecclesiâ ; yea and such a church notwithstanding , as wherein the best and truest members ( circumstances considered ) may have more cause to rejoyce than to grieve . errata . pag. . l. . r. soundness . p. . marg . l. . continuat . p. . marg . l. . lecture . p. . l. . schism . p. . l. . ( , ) p. . l. . because . l ●●●h are , without . p. . l. . that as there . l. . so that have . l. . pe●ve●se . p. . marg . l. . dele , tryal , p. . p. . marg . l. dele , plea , p. . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e mr. mede's farewel serm. on cor. . . mr. read 's case , p. . continuat . of morn . exer. ser. . p. . read , ibid. notes for div a -e mr. baxter's defence of the cure , part . p. . a book licensed by m r cranfo●d . baxter's cure , p. . continuat . morning exercise , serm . p. . a rathband's epistle to the reader , prefixed to the grave and modest confutation , &c. b nichol's plea for the puritans . bayly's disswasive , c. . p. . corbet's discourse of the religion of england , p. . non-conformists no schismaticks , p. . a grave and sober confut. p. . &c. p. . friendly tryal of the grounds of separat c. . p. . a letter of many ministers in old england to others in new england . p. . jerubbaal ; or , the pleader impleaded , p. . & . brownists apol . p , . an. . discourse , §. . p. . preface to . disp. p. . peace-offering , p. . see mr. baxter's defence of his cure , part . p. . & part . p. . & wadsworth in his separation , yet no schism , p. , . mr. troughton's apology for the non-conformists , c. . p. . letter . on john , p. . morning-exercise , serm . p. . t●●●ghton's apol . p. . peace-offering , p. . unreasonableness of the separation , p. . grave and modest confutat . p. . unreasonableness of separation , p. . . apologet. narration , p. . cotton's infant baptism , p. . * jus divinam minist . evang. p. . &c. brinsly's church remedy , p. , . cawdry independ . a great schism , p. , , ‖ theodu●ia , or just defence ▪ §. , . preface , &c. . §. . a croston's reformation not separation , p. . and bethshemesh clouded , p. . &c. cawdrey's independ ▪ a great schism , p. . &c. church-reformation , p. . b mr. baxter's plea for peace , epist. serm. on gal. . . p. . defence p. . part . p. . c mr. corbit's account of the principles , &c. of several non-conformists , p. . troughton's apol . p. . defence of his cure , part . p. . v. letter of ministers of old england to new , p. . apol. c. . p. . defence of his cure , part . p. . wav cleared , p. . his letter , p. . printed . v. hooker's survey , preface , & part . p. . on the ephes. p. , , . pag. . ibid. sion college visited . unreasonableness of the separation , p. . mr. baxter's cure of church divisions , dir. . p. . papers for accomodation , p. . reasons for the christian religion , p. . v. annotations on the apologet . narrat . p. . arraignment of schim , p. . dwelling with god , serm. . p. , . * on rev. c. . v. jenkin on jude , v. . allen vindiciae pietatis , second part p. . vindication of presbyterian government , p. . cotton on john , p. . a grave confut . p. . cawdrey's independency further proved , p. . b brinsly's arraignment , p. , , . c baily's disswasive , c. . p. . d ames's puritanismus angl. v. parker on the cross , part . c. . §. . bax. def. p. . e apologet nar. p. . f sac. il . desert . p. . g the life of mr. j. allen , p. . h the doctrine of schism , p. . i reasonable account , &c. bonasus vapulans , p. . k account of the principles of the non-conformists , p. . l discourse of the religion , &c. p. . v. mr. read's case , p. . non-conformists plea for lay-communion , p. . non-conformists plea for peace , §. . p. . m b●rroughs irenicum , p. . n vindication of presbyt . govern. brinsly arraignment , p. . . corbet's plea for lay-communion , &c. p. . irenicum , by discipulus de tempore , junior , aliàs m. newcomen , epist. to reader . friendly tryal , c. . p. . hildersham lect. on john. r. rogers's . treatises . tr. . c. . p. . vindicat. of the presbyt . gov. p. . jerubbaal p. . . troughton's apol . p. . mr. nye's case of great and present use , p. . and . mr. read's case , p. . * burrough's irenicum , p. . lawfulness hearing the publick ministers of the church of england . nye's case , p. , . theodulia ; or , a just defence of hearing , &c. c. . §. . p. . c. . §. . p. . treatise of the lawfulness of hearing , &c. p. ult . theodulia . answer to preface §. . p. , . vid. blake's vindiciae foed . c. . p. , &c. arraignment of schism , p. . temple measured , p. . evangelical love , p. . expos. on epist. john , p. . cure of church-divisions , dir. . p. . &c. on the sacrament , p. . account of the principles of n. c. p. . and discourse of religion , §. . p . irenicum , c. . p. , . the unreasonableness of the separation , p. . j●●●●baal , p. . apo ▪ p. . expos. on epi●t . joh. p. . england's remembrancer , serm. . p. . arg. . confession of faith , art. . comment on j●●● , ver . . his life , p. . sacrileg . desert . p. . arg. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. , . a ball 's tryal , p. . b the platform of discipline in new england , c. . §. . c lect. . on john , p. , . d dwelling with god , p. . ibid. the unreasonableness of s●paration , p. . non-conformists no schismaticks , p. . independ . a great schism , p. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. . arg. . dr. owen's discourse of evangel . love , c. . p. . troughton's apol . p. . lect. . on john , p. , . and lect. . p. . v. dr. bryan's dwelling with god , p. . e on the sacrament , p. . croston's hard way to heaven , p. . noye's temple measured , p. . jenkin on jude v. . davenport's apol . reply , p. . ball 's tryal , p. , &c. f com. on epist . john p. . godly mans ark , epist. ded. godly mans portion , p. . v. bains on the ephes. c. . . p. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. . continuat . of morn . exer. serm. . p. . arg. . unreas . of the separat . p. . tryal of the grounds of separat . c. , ● ▪ sacrileg desert . p. . defence of his cure , part . p. . iren. c . p. . godly mans portion , p. . com. on ephes. c. . . p. . morton's memorial , p. . &c. mr. baxter's def. of cure , part . p. . englands remembrancer , ser. . p. . arg. . independ . a schism , p. . vindiciae soed . c. . p. . platform of discipline in new england , c. . §. . temple 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burrough's iren. c. . p. . platform of discipline , c. . §. . methermeneut . p. . on john . lect. . cure of divis. p. . continuat . of morn . exer. serm. . p. . lect. . p. . and lect. . com. on jude , v. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. . iren. c. . p. . platform , c. . §. . continuat . of morn . exer. serm. . p. . iren. c. . p. , . defence , part . p. . arg. . lect. . p. , & . arg. . iren. c. . p. , . of this v. ball 's tryal , c. . p. , , . arg. . lect. . arraignment of schism , p. . iren. c. . p. . platform pref. p. . and c. . §. . independ . a schism . p. . methermeneut , p. , . arg. . iren. c. . p. . defence , part . p. . arg. . lect. . p. , & lect. . on the sacrament , p. . in his farewel sermon . serm. at pauls on acts . . lect. . p. ● . lect. . jus divi●●m minist . evangil . p. , . methermeneut , p. . lect. . p. . lect. . p. . letter of the minist . in old england to the brethren in new england , p. . case of great ●e , p. . pag. , theodulia , c. . §. . p. . seven treatises , tract . c. . p. . defence , part . p. . ibid. p. . ibid. p. . dwelling with god , serm. . p. . defence , part . p. . tract . . p. . cure dir. . p. . letter of the minist . in old england to the brethren in new england , p. . tryal of the grounds , c. p. . v. to●●● . 〈◊〉 , p. . arg. . letter of the minist . in old engl. &c. p . v. ball 's tryal , p. . case of great use , p. . arg. . dwelling with god , p. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. . arg. . christian directory , p. . & cure , p. , . account given to the parliment , p. . letter of the ministers , p. . tract . p. . farewel sermons , vol. . p. , . case of great ▪ use , p. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. . bonasus vap●lans , p. . 〈◊〉 legacy , p. . non-conformists plea for conformists , p. . & . on the sacrament , p. . brinsley's arraignment , p. , . jenk . on jude , v. . baily's disswasive , p. . sacril . desert . p. . a cawdrey's reformation promoted , p. . b manton on jude , p. . c vines on sacrament , p. . platform c. . §. . v. cotton's holiness of church-members , p. . gospel worship , serm. . p. . arg. . on sacrament , p. . p. . vindicat. of presbyt . govern . p. . brinsl●y's arraign . p. . firmin's separation examined , p. . cawdrey's church reformat p. . theodulia , p. . survey of discipline , pref. a. . platform , c. . §. . arg. . grave confut . part . p. . on the sacrament , p. . & p. , . gospel worship , serm. . p. , . tryal , c. . p. , . v. jeans discourse on the lords supper . rutherford right of presbyt . grave confut . part . p. . & . ball 's tryal , p. . platform , c. . §. . blake vindic. p. . christian directory , p. . v. non-conformists no schismaticks , p. . arg. . vines on the sacrament , p. . infant-baptism , p. . v. bains on the 〈◊〉 c. . v. . p . in proverb . edwards apol. object . . cor. . . ans. . defence , part . p. . cawdrey's church reformat . p. . ans. . ball 's tryal , p. . brinsley's arraignment , p. . jenk . on jude , v. . tombs's theodulia , p. . grave confut. part . p. . tomb's theodulia , p. . cawdrey's reformat . p. . cure dir. . p. . on the sacrament , p. . tomb's theod. p. . arg . t. c's . letter to harrison against separation in the defence of the admonit . p. , . p. . com. on the ephes. p. , . arg. . vindiciae c. . p. , . v. grave confut . part . p. . vines on sacrament , c. . p. . v. gillespie's ni ●il r●spondes , p. . a knutton's seven queries . brinsley's arraign . p. . b on sacram. p. . troughton's apol . p. . cure dir. . p. . evangel . love , c. . p. . v. grave confut . part . p. . a dwelling with god , serm. . p. . firmin separation examined , p. . b provocator provocatus , p. . & . v. vines on sacrament , c. . p. . brinsley's arraign . p. . c brinsley's arraign . p. . cawdrey's church reformat . p. . jenk . on jude v. . blake's vindiciae , c. . p. . englands remembrancer , serm. . p. . . genera l. letter of the minist . of old engl. p , . bryan's dwelling with god , p . t●●●'s theod. p. . tr●●ghton's apol c. ● p. . e owen's peace-offer . p. . mischief of impositions , epist . dedic . tryal , c. . p. . &c. . p. . cure of church divis. p. . tomb's theod. p. . g sacril . deser● . p. , . v. dissenting brethren in quests , p. . h discourse of the work of the spirit in prayer , p. , . i ball 's tryal , c. . r●gers tr. . bryan's dwelling with god , p . k grave confut . ep. to reader . continuat . of morn . exer. p. . l freion serm. on jo. . . m clark's lives of divines , p. . ball 's tryal , p. . owen's disc. of prayer , p. . pract. of christianity , c. . p . edit . life of mr. w. brad●haw , in mr clark's collection in fol. p. ● . continuat . of morn . exer. serm. . p. . collection of the lives of divines , p. . life of m. cap●l . ibid. a bradshaw's life publish'd by mr. clark in fol. p. . b his doctrine of fasting and prayer , an. . c collection of lives , o. p. . tryal , epist. to reader . tryal , c. . p. . c. . p. . answ. to apollonius , c. . discourse of prayer , p. . & . ba● . cure , p. . ball 's tryal , p. ● , . d tombs's t●eod●●ia , p. . grave confut. p. , . ainsworth's annot. on ex. . . e tryal , p. , , ● , . & p ● . f tomb's theodulia . p. . ball 's tryal , p. , &c. rogers's treatises , p. . tomb's theod. p. . ball 's tryal , p. , , . tryal , p. . g tryal , p. , , , . h resp. ad apoll . c. . sacril . desert . p. . defence , part . p. . ball 's tryal , p. . rogers's tr. p. . rogers's tr. tr. . c. . p. . ball 's tryal , c. . p. . ibid. p. . rogers , ibid. disc. of prayer , p. , , . theodulia , p. , . bryan's dwelling with god , serm. . p . baxt. def. part . p. , . croston's refor . no separ . p. . t.d. jeru●baal p. . letter of the minist . in old engl. p. . second plea for peace , p. . plea for lay-communion , p. . v. ball 's tryal , c. . p. . letter of ministers in old engl. p. . treat . . c. . p. . plea , p. . sacril desert . p. . i corbet's plea , p. . k gifford's plain declaration . ball 's tryal , c. . p. . l mr. baxter's def. of cure , p. . mr. hamphry's healing paper , p. . mr. baxter's disp. . of church gover. p . m ball 's tryal , p. . c. . p. . n letter of ministers of old engl. p. . mr. s. faircl●ugh's life , p. . o mr. read's case p. . tryal . c. . p. . object . answ. p. . v. letter of the minist . in old engl. p. . dr. bryan's dwelling with god , p. , . mr. baxter's cure p. . theodulia , p. . christ. direct . p. . v. faldo's dialogue 'twixt a minister and a quaker . noye's temple measured , p. . theod. p. . christian letters , let. . p. . direct . p. . disswasive , c. p. &c. p. , . v. johnson's christian plea , treat . . c . p. . lettters , ibid. v baxt. christ. direct . p. . theodulia , p. , &c. v. t. d. jerubbaal , p. . & mr. croston's answ. p. . v. ames's fresh sult , c. . § . p. . perkins's cases . evangel . harm . on luke . v. , &c. second reply , p. . troughton's apol . p. . on the sacrament , p. . sacril . desert . p. . christ. direct . p. . sacril . desert . p. . ball 's tryal , epist. to reader . defence . p. , . brinsley's healing of israels breaches , p. . dwelling with god , serm. . p. , . on the ephes. c. . p. , . the several ways of revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, octob. , : being the seventh of the lecture for the said year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the several ways of revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, octob. , : being the seventh of the lecture for the said year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng revelation -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r williams's seventh sermon at mr. boyle's lecture , . the several ways of revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , octob. . . being the seventh of the lecture for the said year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . m dc xc vi. heb. . , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son , &c. in these words we have ( as i have before shewed ) . a description of revelation , 't is god's speaking , or declaring his will to mankind . . the certainty of that revelation , 't is by way of declaration , god who at sundry times , &c. spake . . the order observed in that revelation , as to time , manner , and persons ; in time past by the prophets , and in the last days by his son. . the perfection and completion of all , 't is in these last days by his son. it 's the third that i am at this time to enter upon ; viz. ▪ the order observed in that revelation , &c. where , according to the method laid down in the beginning of these lectures , . i am to consider the several ways by which god did reveal himself in time past by the prophets ; as by inspirations , visions , &c. . i am to shew the difference between divine inspirations on one hand , and diabolical illusions , natural impressions , and delusory imaginations on the other . . i am to consider the several periods of divine revelation , before the law , under the law , and under the gospel ; and the gradual progress of it from first to last , from the lower to the higher degree , and the perpetual respect one had to the other . . i am to shew why god did thus gradually , and at sundry times , proceed in revealing his will to mankind , and not at first as fully and perfectly as by his son. . i am to consider the several ways by which god did reveal himself in time past by the prophets . when we are treating of revelation , we are to consider that it is like light , to be known by it self ; and that the best way therefore is to take the scripture it self for our guide in the matters belonging thereunto ; without which , how learnedly soever men may discourse upon this argument , 't is to as little purpose as if we should go about to compile a history of the invisible world , and of all the transactions in it from time to time , which we have no conversation nor acquaintance with . we see how vain ( though ingenious ) the attempts of many inquisitive persons have been , notwithstanding the improvements by telescopes , &c. for their assistance , to give us any tolerable account of the solar and lunary worlds ; and after much and indefatigable pains , they are not able to say this is land , and that water ; or whether neither of the two . and we talk as much at random , when we leave the beaten track of scripture , and think to find out by our own reason what we must understand by revelation alone . we can only think and discourse of such subjects , as we keep that clue in our hand ; and therefore laying aside all manner of conjectures , and the speculations of the jewish or christian rabbies upon the argument in hand , i shall solely keep my self to the rule of scripture . all i pretend , is to compare scripture with it self , and to try if by putting these things together , and laying them in order , i can contribute any thing to the explication of so obscure and intricate an argument . there are several terms made use of in scripture with reference to this subject , and for the signification of the way by which god did reveal and make himself known to mankind ; and they are , inspiration , vision , dreams , and voices . . inspiration . so job [ . . ] saith , the inspiration of the almighty gave them [ men ] understanding . and the scripture is said to have been given by inspiration of god , tim. . . now it seems to be called inspiration , because it is insensibly communicated and breathed as it were into the soul , as the soul was into the body ; to which the phrase in job has a plain reference , where the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used , which is used gen. . . when god is said to breathe into adam the breath of life : and by which term it is properly and evidently distinguished from all the other species of divine communications . for all the rest are sensible ways , whether by representation , as visions or dreams ; or by action , as voices ; but this comes as life came into the body , or air comes into the lungs , without any such kind of perception or sensation . now there is a threefold inspiration ; ( . ) that which is purely natural : so 't is said of god , who hath put wisdom into the inward parts , job . . and he is said to instruct the plowman to discretion , isa. . . this is no other than a disposition infused , and connatural with the soul it self ; and that afterward in process of time ripens , and comes to be a power or principle , and even a habit , by action and observation . ( . ) there is a providential inspiration ; when god by some after-act of his providence , and for some special service , doth either give life to such a natural power and inherent disposition , or else infuses a new disposition or power into the soul. this seems to have been the case of bezaleel , and aboliab , and others , into whom god is said to have put wisdom and understanding , to know how to work all manner of work ; and yet of the same persons 't is said , whose heart stirred them up , exod. . , . that is , god did chuse them out , as being of themselves well disposed and fitted for that employment , and after an extraordinary manner , and by a supernatural assistance qualified them further for it . and from the consideration of the difference between men and men , and indeed between a man and himself , when from some imperceptible beginning he comes to advance beyond others , and even beyond himself in knowledge , wisdom , and success , the world has been inclin'd to think there was somewhat of a peculiar inspiration in it . whence that saying of the heathen orator , nemo vir magnus sine afflatu divino unquàm fuit : no one ever came to be a great man , or attained to any extraordinary eminence in knowledge or skill , but by a divine illumination . ( . ) there is an inspiration purely supernatural ; that is immediately , wholly , and only from god. of this sort is that divine influx commonly known by the term of regeneration , when god so changes the heart by the powerful operation of his holy spirit , that it 's said to be new , ezek. . . but that which is more to our purpose , is when god in daniel's phrase , chap. . . revealeth the deep and secret things , and doth communicate his will , so that the person conceives , and thinks and acts , as the divine power would have him conceive , think , and act . it being here , as with the soul in the body , which is the principle of all vital motion ; for though the body be in its contrivance admirably adapted for all offices to which the organs of it are to serve , if there were a soul in it ; yet it is the soul that must make the eye to see , and the foot to move , and the tongue to speak , or else there will be no sight , motion , nor speech . so it is here in divine inspiration of this sort , where the spirit of god is to the soul , what the soul is to the body , and must make all those impressions upon it , must infuse the power of conceiving and thinking , or rather those conceptions and thoughts , those notions and ideas of things , nay , that matter . so that the person inspired doth not think his own thoughts , nor order his own conceptions , nor form his own notions , nor use his own words ( where these are inspired ) as far as he is inspired . not that his reason is not in operation , ( as it is in raptures , visions , and dreams , where the rational powers are bound up as it were by sleep for the present ) , but that these infusions proceeding not from any reasoning in themselves , but from an external and supernatural cause , it is by that cause determined to the matter that is inspired . as a prompter doth suggest the matter , or dictate the words to the interpreter he makes use of ; which are not to be esteemed the words or thoughts of the interpreter , but of the suggester . as our saviour saith to his disciples , when they deliver you up , take no thought how or what ye shall speak ; for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak : for it is not ye that speak , but the spirit of the father which speaketh in you . matth. . , . now as it was the spirit of god speaking in them , that did in that case dictate and guide them in all they said , so that they spake with such authority and ability , such wisdom and elocution , without any premeditation , as all their adversaries were not able to gainsay or resist , luke . . ; ( as we find in the instance of st. stephen , acts . . ) so it was after the same manner that the divine spirit did breathe upon the mind ( as our saviour on the apostles in an external way , the signification of the internal , john . . ) in a way imperceptible ; and did so insinuate it self , that it became , as it were , one spirit with theirs , and they thought as the spirit dispos'd them to think , as well as spake as the spirit gave them utterance . acts . . this was thinking and speaking by inspiration : and this being the most eminent way of god's communicating his will to mankind , is call'd revelation in the new testament especially , it being immediate , without the intervention of visions , or extasies , or voices , or any other means than it self ; and this was the way by which the apostles received their revelation , called a revealing by the spirit . . another way by which god revealed himself , was vision , or sight . this was so common , that all the ways of revelation are sometimes set forth by this term . a vision is the representation of an object , as in a glass which places the visage before us ; and by which we have as clear a view of the things thus represented , as if they were the things themselves , and not the images or appearances of them . and therefore though the external senses are herein bound up , and , as it were , laid asleep in a trance ; yet the things presented at that time to the imagination , and intended as a revelation of something to happen or to be done , are as plain , and evident , as sensible objects that lie open to the sense . thus balaam describes it as to himself , who saw the vision of the almighty , falling into a trance , but having his eyes open , numb . . . that is , though he had not the exercise of his outward senses ; and so his eyes were of no more use to him when open than if they were shut , yet he evidently saw whatever was presented to his mind . thus st. paul as clearly saw our saviour by a representation or vision , when he was in a trance in the temple , as he did when he actually and visibly appear'd to him at mid-day on the way to damascus . in this case things imaginary are as if they were real , remote as if they were near , future as if present , and secret as if open ; that is , what sight , presence , and knowledge is to us in things sensible when we are awake , and have the full exercise of our outward senses ; that is vision to the visionaries , to such as are in an extasy . this will be farther illustrated by a reflection upon these several particulars ; to which ( if i mistake not ) all the instances of this kind may be reduced . as . in vision things imaginary and internal are represented as evidently as if they were real and external . thus much is intimated in the case of st. peter ; of whom 't is said , when the angel smote him , and the chains fell off from his hands ; he wist not that it was true which was done by the angel , but thought be saw a vision . from whence it follows , that all this ( which he found to be real when he came to himself ) might have been represented by way of vision ; and things thereby represented are as evidently proposed to the mind , as outward objects can be to the eye . thus it was with the same apostle when he fell into a trance , and saw heaven opened , and a certain vessel descending unto him , as it had been a great sheet , knit at the four corners , and let down to the earth ; wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth , &c. acts . , &c. of this kind of vision , were jeremiah's wearing a linnen girdle , and his hiding it afterwards in a hole by euphrates ; and his taking a cup of fury at the lord's hand , and causing all nations to drink of it . of the same kind were ezekiel's eating of the roll , his typical laying siege to jerusalem , and an hundred things more in that and other prophetical books . in which cases , when the things represented are wholly imaginary , and never existent , what is in phrase positively said of them , is to be supplied with as it were ; as in the aforesaid vision of st. peter , when it is said peter saw heaven opened , and a sheet descending , &c. it being not a thing really done , but only by representation , it is to be understood , that he , as it were , saw heaven opened . . in vision things remote are represented as present , and the visionary has all the advantage of sight in things presented to the eye without the use of sight , or change of place . so ezekiel , when a captive in chald●ea , had the state of jerusalem ( as it was then in fact ) set before him ; whither he was brought in the visions of god , and as evidently saw all things that were at that time transacted in the temple , as if he had been actually there : and even the secret practices of the elders and priests in the most retired corners were at that distance exactly represented to him ; so that if he had been personally with them , they had not been more visible to him . there he beheld the idols pourtrayed on the wall ; and the seventy men , or sanhedrim , and jaazaniah their head , in the midst of them , with every man his censer in his hand , and all the particulars as there described . . in vision , things future are as evidently represented , as if they were present . thus saul when deprived of his sight , saw in a vision ananias coming in , and by imposition of hands restoring him to it ; and by which means , as described to him before-hand , he as perfectly knew ananias , when he came to see , as if he had afore time been conversant with him . from whence we may observe : ( . ) that vision is supernatural ; so in the old testament , ezekiel saith , the hand of the lord was upon me . and in the new , st. john saith , he was in the spirit . ( . ) that it is internal ; when the soul , tho' in the body , yet for the present is as out of it , as to corporeal sensations , and sees , perceives , and understands nothing by the external organs . thus it was with st. paul in his wonderful rapture , when his soul was in such an abstracted and elevated state , that he himself could not tell , whether he was in the body or out of the body . so that when the name of vision is given in scripture to this way of divine communication , it is not from any use made of corporeal sight , or that it is entertain'd with any external objects ; but because of the clearness and evidence of it , and a conformity it therein bears to outward and corporeal sense . by which it is distinguished from external representations , ( which were also very frequent in those times of revelation ) of which there were two sorts more especially , viz. ( . ) that which the jews call the shechinah , which was god's manifestation of himself in a visible glory and majesty , without any form , as he did to the patriarchs ; and afterwards it was the token of his special residence among his people the jews , called therefore his dwelling between the cherubins . ( . ) another way of appearance was by angels , when they took upon them a humane form , by way of condescension to mankind , and for a freer conversation with them ; and from which form and umbrage , the scripture terms them men : but , besides what the sequel of scripture and common sense shews , the apostle hath taught us that they were divine messengers sent immediately from god , upon especial occasions and emergencies . but the schechinah , called the glory of the lord , was a manifestation of the divine presence , and not a revelation ; and the angels were only messengers of a revelation : and so neither of them belong properly to this place . . another way of revelation was by dreams . there is so far an agreement between vision and dreams , that in both the external senses were bound up , so that a vision may be called a supernatural dream , and a dream may be said to be a natural vision ; and so in job they seem to be taken for one and the same . god speaketh in a dream , in a vision of the night , when deep sleep falleth upon men , in slumbrings upon the bed . but the scripture otherwise usually speaks of them as two distinct ways of revelation : so num. . . if there be a prophet among you , i the lord will make my self known to him in a vision , and will speak unto him in a dream . so joel . . and the difference between them seems to be , ( . ) that vision properly speaking was generally , if not always , when the visionary was awake , whether by night or day ; but dreams ( as the nature of the thing shews ) were , when the external senses were asleep ; and reason , as to its present operation , was bound up with them . ( . ) in a vision the whole was supernatural , without any humane predisposition or concurrence , as the scripture-phrase doth shew , ( as st. john was said to be carried in the spirit into the wilderness , and a trance is said to fall upon st. peter : ) but to dream , is a natural motion of the spirits , and disposition of body , which the spirit of god , or an angel ( the usual minister employ'd in such conveyances ) made use of ; both as the mind was then in a state of repose , and by the rest of the body relaxed from the business of the day ; and also as what was suggested in that way , made a stronger impression upon the mind , when not diverted by outward objects and occasions , and that there was a cessation from all external and sensible operations . for it seemed necessary ( naturally speaking ) that in all revelations there should be a sedate disposition of mind , and an abstraction from all other conceptions ; and therefore it was either sound so , as in dreams , or made so by some angelical and divine operation , as in a vision or trance . in both the senses were therefore bound up ; but in a vision , by a supernatural agency ; in sleep or dreams , by the meer effect of nature . and if it be asked , how then is there a revelation by dream , when revelation is supernatural , and a dream natural ? i answer ; though it be as natural to dream as to sleep , and a dream is a consequent , if not a constant concomitant of sleep ; yet in this case ( which we are speaking of ) the revelation or dream was supernatural . as to think or speak is natural to man ; but so to think or speak as is above the capacity of the agent , and what he of himself could never have thought or spoken , shews that he is not so much an agent as a recipient , and the instrument made use of in the conveyance . thus it was no more natural for balaam several ages before to foretel what the children of israel should do to the moabites in the latter days , than it was for his ass to speak . so to dream is natural , but to dream of such things then in doing , or of such things to come as are altogether independent on the body , nor by any methods of nature or presumptive art to be known or foreseen , is supernatural . thus to dream was natural to pharaoh , as to others ; and his dream of the seven fat and lean kine , might have pass'd for the fruit of a nocturnal imagination ; but by a dream to be made understand , that there should be successively seven years of great plenty , and then seven years of famine , could proceed only from a divine revelation . and this will further appear in the process of this discourse , when i am to consider the difference between what is natural , and what is divine , &c. . another sort of revelation was by voice , and that by way of immediate communication , or occasional . the former of these was vouchsafed to abraham , and above all to moses ; to whom god is said to have spoke face to face , as a man speaketh unto his friend . by which he is distinguished from all other prophets , and preferr'd above them , as it is recorded , numb . . , , . if there be a prophet among you , i the lord will make my self known unto him in a vision , and will speak unto him in a dream . my servant moses is not so , &c. with him will i speak mouth to mouth , even apparently , and not in dark speeches , and the similitude of the lord shall he behold . that revelation to him was after the way of communication , open and clear , as a friend converses with a friend ; and whenever he had occasion to know the mind of god , he went to the place where he might be sure to meet him , that is , into the tabernacle , and there he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from between the two cherubims , numb . . . next to this , was the continuance of that oracle among the jews , to which the high-priest repair'd in any difficulties ; but how far the divinity did communicate it self in that way , the scripture is not positive . we find that it was with-held in the time of saul ; for when he enquired of the lord , 't is said , the lord answer'd him not , neither by dreams , nor by urim , nor by prophets , nor by any other way . there was another sort of voice , which was altogether occasional , and proceeded from the magnificent glory , in st. peter's phrase ; and was for some particular direction , as to hagar , to abraham , &c. or for testimony and confirmation , as was that the apostle speaks of , when it was audibly proclaim'd from heaven , this is my beloved son in whom i am well-pleased . thus far i have treated of the several ways of revelation recorded in the holy scripture , and in which god spake in time past by the prophets . there was one more which the jews of latter ages speak of , and would have continued , after the other were discontinued , called by them the bath col , or the low voice ; and which after a sort they conceive was to supply the deficiency of the other ; but that is beside my present purpose , having confined my self to scripture alone . where also we find nothing observ'd or allow'd of another way , which the heathenish world abounded in , and by which they thought the success and event of any design they had in hand might be learned , and that was divination . when by the air or earth , the flight or feeding of birds , the entrails of beasts , &c. they might judge of the way they were to take , or the event of their proceedings , as did the king of babylon . a pretence foolish enough , and which we can make no better a use of , than to observe how desirous the world has always been of a revelation , how sensible of the need of a further direction , than what mere nature or reason did dictate ; and withal , how foolish mankind was under the want of it . for how can it be suppos'd that futurities should be dependent upon such sorry accidents , or that the divinity should thus reveal it self ? therefore it is no wonder to find the true revelation so silent as to these ludicrous matters ; and if we had there found such an order of men established by that , as were the augurs , haruspices , and extispices among the heathens , and such rules as those had for to guide them in their observations in that sensless art ; it would be a better argument against the authority of such a revelation , than ever yet has been or can be advanced against it by its greatest-enemies . no! these are justly reckon'd among the abominations of the heathen , and forbidden to the jews , viz. there shall not be found among you any one , that useth divination , or an observer of times , or an inchanter , or a charmer , or a consulter with a familiar spirit ; for all that do these things , are an abomination unto the lord. but now granting that the deity did make known and communicate his will in the ways before spoken of , of inspiration , vision , dreams and voices ; yet there remains a great difficulty behind , and that is , how we may be satisfied about the truth and certainty of such a revelation ? and that because as there are supernatural visions , voices and dreams , so there are natural ; as divine , so humane ; as real , so imaginary on one hand , and pretence on the other : and therefore how shall we distinguish the supernatural , from the natural ; the divine , from the humane ; the real , from the imaginary and pretended ? and how know we , but that what we call a divine inspiration , vision , dream and voice , may be natural and humane , may be imaginary , enthusiastical and supposititious ? that persons may say as those , jer. . . i have dreamed , i have dreamed ; and yet it be a vision of their own heart . or that there may be a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets , as micaiah said of those in his time , kings . . this brings to the second : . to consider the difference between divine communications , natural impressions , and diabolical illusions ; whether by inspiration or vision , dreams or voices . in the resolution of which case , it is not my design to discourse nicely , after a philosophical manner ; as about the force of imagination , and the influence invisible agents have upon mankind ; for that is to go a great way about , without coming nearer the point than when we first set out ; and is not to be done , without knowing what we pretend not to know . i don't question but that if we had an immediate intuition into the state of the mind , or the operations upon it , we might discern as plain a difference between temper and inspiration , imposture and revelation , as between day and night ; or as there is between an angel of light , and an angel of darkness , to such as are in the invisible state . but these things are alike unknown to us ; only this we may say , that divine inspiration is discover'd as light , by it self ; and which the person divinely moved and illuminated is as much assured of , as he is of the existence of any thing in being , or the truth of any proposition , as has been before said . and when the divine power operates , it hath so much the ascendant over the natural temper , that it lays a person under an uncontroulable necessity of obeying the dictates of it , as it was with the prophets of old . but if it be said , don't we see enthusiastical persons as confident of their imaginary inspirations and visions , and look upon themselves as much obliged to follow them , as those that are truly inspired do to obey what is divine ? i answer , be it so ; yet this is of it self no argument against the truth and certainty of revelation , and of revelation in those ways . is it any argument against the certainty of sense , that it is often deceived and imposed upon ? or against truth , that there are errors and everlasting disputes among mankind ? and because there are , are we all obliged to be scepticks ; and may we be positive that there is no truth nor certainty in the world ; and that no man can be sure he sees , or hears , or knows , or lives ? and because there are or have been deluded and brain-sick persons , are therefore none wise , or in their wits ? and are all inspired persons no more to be credited than if they were lunaticks ? or don 't they know themselves to be any more inspired , than those that are agitated by the power of a wild imagination ? confidence in imaginary inspirations may be great ; but the perception , and so the assurance cannot be alike to what is real . but tho' the deity can so communicate it self , as that the person inspired shall know most certainly , it is from god , and from him alone ; and so there is no absolute necessity of any farther evidence to him , no more than there is of light to give evidence to light : yet that there might nothing be wanting for the further satisfaction of such as had a revelation , there was often added some sign , or supernatural proof . so when gideon had some doubt of what the angel said , ( when he knew not what he was ) and was timerous , when requir'd to go on a difficult enterprize ; he was confirmed , by the fire out of the rock that consumed the flesh ; and by the fleece ; and the soldier 's dream , and the interpretation of it . and moses was convinced not only of his own mission from god , but of the acceptance and authority he should upon it have with the people , when the rod in his hand was turned into a serpent ; and his hand , by putting it into his bosom , was made leprous ; and cured again in a moment , by taking it out . a course altogether necessary , for the satisfaction of others , ( as has been before observed ) and which may reasonably be demanded . for if a person shall come , under the pretence of a revelation , with a message to others , and require them , as they tender their salvation , to receive it , and to submit to it , without such certificates as shall give authority to it ; it is like one that shall take on him the style and character of an ambassador , without any credentials to give him authority , and deserves no better acceptance . let then a moses come with a message to pharaoh in the name of god , and require him to obey it ; that prince might reasonably expect a farther confirmation than his word , and it must be somewhat truly great and greater than what was done by his magicians , that should determine him to a belief of it . let elijah confront ahab , and the priests of baal , and they dispute his mission and authority ; he appeals to the supreme authority to decide it , the god that answereth by fire , let him be god. let a lying spirit be put in the mouth of the other prophets in opposition unto micaiah , th a prophet , for the conviction of all , leaves it to the event , saying unto ahab , if thou return at all in peace , the lord hath not spoken by me . and he said , hearken , o people , every one of you . by this means , that is , by predictions and miracles , a prophet may be known to be a prophet , and an inspiration to be an inspiration ; and by these characters may we be able to judge of both ; as to the authority of the mission , and the truth of the inspiration . where the evidence was necessary , there was never wanting one or both of these . and though john did no miracle , yet he had the spirit of prophecy , the people acknowledged , for said they , all things john spake of this man [ jesus ] were true . there may , 't is likely , be inspiration where there is neither of these , nor the like evidences ; but there is no obligation on others to believe it , without the evidence be sufficient ; ( for such as the evidence is , such is the obligation ) but the evidence is not sufficient which rests solely on humane authority , and has nothing but the bare word and affirmation of the pretender , to prove it . to this purpose , saith our saviour , if i bear witness of my self , my witness is not true — the works that i do , bear witness of me . so that inspiration is , as to others , no inspiration , till it be proved : it may , for ought appears to the contrary , be no other than delusion , or imposture . let therefore the imagination be never so strong , the confidence never so great , the intent never so good ; the question is , whence is this , what evidence doth the person bring of his mission from god ? upon what doth it rest ? into what is it resolved ? what doth he produce more than what may be the fruit of imagination ? it may all be a fit of enthusiasm . so that if a person will pretend to immediate inspiration , ( were it an age for it ) and much more , pretend to it after inspiration has ceased ; he must be able to fortify it by such evidence as can come from none but him from whom the inspiration came , if it be divine . so much for inspiration , in opposition to natural impressions and diabolical illusions ; and which may serve as a general answer to the other particular instances that remain . thus it was in visions ; which as to the visionaries was with that evidence , as could leave no manner of doubt of what was therein represented . so micaiah describes his vision , i saw the lord sitting on his throne , and all the host of heaven standing by him , on his right hand , and on his left . and the lord said , who shall persuade ahab , that he may go up and fall at ramoth-gilead ? &c. and by this as he himself did abide , so the event verified it , vers . . the same is to be said as to dreams , which had such a peculiar stroke upon the imagination , that the divine had a different effect upon the person from what was natural ; and therefore abimelech , before he had expostulated the case with abraham , communicated his dream to his family , from the confidence he had in himself of the truth of it . and especially has this a sufficient evidence as to others . . when such things are therein discover'd , which they had before no knowledge of ; as was the case of abimelech . or . which were so remote in place , or time , as none could possibly reveal , but by a divine communication . or . when the interpretation was quite different from the dream , nor was without that interpretation to be understood . this was the case of pharaoh , about the seven fat and lean kine , &c. gen. . . of nebuchadnezzar , about his own transformation and deposition , dan. . . and that of the midianitish soldier , judg. . , . where if we grant that the dreams , as to the matter , might have been the effect of a rolling imagination , ( as pharaoh's kine , nebuchadnezzar's tree , and the soldier 's cake ) yet how the seven kine should prove a prediction of seven years plenty and famine ; or the felling of the tree be an emblem of nebucha●nezzar's dethronization ; or that a cake of bread tumbling into the host , and overturning a tent , should presignify the sword , and success of gideon , and that into his hand god would deliver the host of midian ; was utterly unaccountable , if it were not as joseph said to pharaoh , that god himself thereby shewed what he was about to do , and that it came from him who is a revealer of secrets , as nebuchadnezzar acknowledged . lastly , the like may be said of a revelation by voice , which , if internal , is the same with a dream or vision , as going along with it ; and so has the same sort of evidence . if external , it is its own evidence ; as was that from heaven , to give testimony to our saviour . or it was by way of oracle ; and then the authority of the voices was justified by the numerous predictions ; the design they apparently promoted of encouraging the good , of admonishing and reforming the bad ; and in all , of promoting vertue and true religion in the world ; and to whose veracity future ages have given testimony , by sutable events . whereas those of the heathens were very suspic●ous and doubtful , and often detected to be only forgery and a conspiracy ; and disowned at that time ( when in vulgar estimation ) by the wisest among themselves ; and the reputation of which at last as well utterly fell , as the pretence to them did . so that were the case to be put upon this issue , and to be decided by the measures before laid down , we may safely venture the whole cause of revelation upon it ; when there is nothing wanting , that can reasonably be desired , toward the justification of its veracity ; and that there is no manner of pretence for applying the same terms of evidence and sincerity to imagination , as to inspiration ; or to imposture , ( whether enthusiastical or diabolical ) as is to revelation . for when was it known , that imagination or nature did ever empower persons to speak all languages , and to discourse readily at once with the parthians , medes , and elamites , &c. in their several tongues ? when did imagination or nature enable persons , without any skill , to cure diseases , naturally incurable ; and such as had no humane learning , to talk like philosophers of the sublimest arguments , and with as much freedom as they used the speech of the foreign nations they instructed ? further , what imagination , or nature , or art , could inspirit moses with such a supernatural power , as to turn his rod into a serpent , and to devour those of the magicians ; and by a stroke of it to fetch water out of the rock , and stop the mighty current of the sea ? what imagination could form such idea's in the minds of a pharaoh and nebuchadnezzar , or inspire a joseph and a daniel to give such an interpretation of them , as justified it self to be true by a correspondent event ? when did imagination give life to a fly , or do the least act out of it self ? when did that , or nature , or imposture , raise the dead , with elisha , call for fire from heaven with elijah , or foretel what shall happen a hundred or a thousand years after , or so much as what a person shall think to morrow ? here we may challenge all the magicians of a pharaoh and a nebuchadnezzar , all the men of art and science , all the enthusiasts and impostors in the world , to talk as the persons inspired did talk , to do as they did , and to produce those testimonies as those upon occasion produced in their own justification , and for the confirmation of their mission from god. from all which we see what evidence we have for the truth of our revelation , by the various ways of its manifestation . if we had such inspirations , such visions of things future and remote , &c. what evidence could we desire more to attest and bear witness to what we are to believe and receive ? and what absurdities must we be cast upon , if we would venture to call those matters of fact in question , which though peculiar to those times , lose not their evidence and force because they are not in ours , nor have been for several ages , nor are to be in the christian church ? however , there are those manifestations of the divine presence and power , which we are all capable of , and may obtain by prayer to god ; and which shall be more beneficial to us , than if we our selves could work miracles , and were the inspired persons to whom god did thus make known himself , as he did in time past to the prophets ; and those are the grace and assistance of his holy spirit , and the doing his will : qualifications that will render us more acceptable to him , and make us more capable of his favour , and all the advantages of it in this world , and that to come , than if we could divide the sea with moses , or stop the sun in its course with joshua , or raise the dead with elisha . for then , though without those miraculous donations , we may be received with a come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world . which god of his infinite mercy grant to us all , through jesus christ our lord. amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e cic. l. . de nat. deor. rom. . , . gal. . . cor . . ephes. . , , . thes. . . acts . , . acts . . c. . . cor. . . acts . . jerem. . , &c. . . ezek. ch . . . . &c. ezek. . . & . , &c. acts . . ezek. . . revel . . . cor. . . gen. . , &c. psal. . . gen. . . . . hebr. . . num : . , &c. job . . . . revel . . . . . acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . numb . . . gen. ● , ● . exod. . , . sam. . . pet. . . ezek. . . deut. . , &c. serm. . p. . jer. . . ezek. . . judg. . , . . , . exod. . , . serm. . p. . exod. . . kings . , . kings . , . joh. . ver . joh. . , . kings . . gen. . . mat. . . vid. ser. . p. . a sermon preached july , being the day of publick thanksgiving appointed by his majesty for the late victory over the rebels, in the parish-churches of st. mildred's poultrey, and st. ann's aldersgate : published in vindication of that, and the author / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached july , being the day of publick thanksgiving appointed by his majesty for the late victory over the rebels, in the parish-churches of st. mildred's poultrey, and st. ann's aldersgate : published in vindication of that, and the author / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed by r.r., and are to be sold by walter davis ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached july . . being the day of publick thanksgiving appointed by his majesty for the late victory over the rebels . in the parish-churches of st. mildred's poultrey , and st. ann's aldersgate . published in vindication of that , and the author . by john williams , rector of st. mildred's poultrey . london : printed by r. r. and are to be sold by walter davis in amen corner . . to the right honourable and right reverend father in god , henry lord bishop of london . my lord , it is to your lordship , that we of the clergy within your diocess , are immediately ( under his majesty ) accountable for our doctrine and behaviour ; in which , if any of us are known to offend , it becomes such as know it , and are aggrieved , to complain to you , as our ordinary , for the reformation and redressing of it . but it is of late grown too much a practice amongst some , that would be thought not a little concerned for our church , to be the first that censure us , and without examination of the case , or enquiring into the truth and certainty of what they report , make the wide world the judg , and proclaim our faults , whatever they are , or are said to be , in the chief places of concourse ; and which your lordship ( and perhaps the party himself ) knows nothing of , till every body knows it , and common fame brings it to your ears . my lord , it has happened thus with me , as with others ( who am not the first , nor it's likely shall be the last that is to be thus served . ) for having preached july . the day appointed by his majesty for a publick thanksgiving for the late victory over the rebels , there want not some who have reported that i only entertained my auditory with a general discourse that was not to the purpose of the day and occasion . a calumny i for a while slighted , and contented my self to give my friend satisfaction , that first acquainted me with it : but when , from a deep design in some to asperse the clergy of the city , from a credulity in others to believe ill of them , and from the humour of an age ( from what reason it proceeds , god knows ) given to believe a lye , it came to be a publick talk : it became me , if i had no regard to my own reputation , yet from the regard i ought to have to our clergy ( which too much suffers by such aspersions ) and to your lordship ( under whose cognizance it falls ) to take the most effectual course for the refuting of it , by publishing my sermon , how defective soever it may otherwise be . this therefore i do , without adding any new matter , saving what may serve to render it the more intelligible , useful , and entire ( which is therefore distinguished from the other , and set forth by marks ) and without making any alteration , so much as in the words relating to the day , forbearing even those things that i said more of it , as they then offered themselves to my thoughts , because i cannot now exactly recollect it , though i am sensible it would have been not a little to the advantage of it . i must acknowledg , there is not that bitterness and severity , with which some eager spirits are gratified ; having learned from the behaviour of st. michael , not to bring even against an adversary a railing accusation : but if i mistake not , the doctrine i teach , doth overthrow the main principle by which rebellion is supported ; a way indeed that may not make so much noise , but if prudently and effectually managed , strikes it to the heart ; and differs as much from the former , as fighting and vanquishing an enemy doth from railing at him . and therefore , tho i am not able to answer for the order and dress of it ( which had the printing been a mere voluntary act of mine , i should be obliged to ) yet for the truth and loyalty , i may safely challenge those that have adventured either spightfully or ignorantly to revile it , the worst of mine or our churches adversaries , to question it . in confidence of which , i do present it to your lordship , and desire to stand or fall , as your lordship shall judg of it : who as in this , so upon all other occasions , shall approve my self , your lordships most obedient servant , john williams . to the parishioners of st. mildred's poultrey , and st. mary cole ; and of st. ann's aldersgate , and st. john zachary . having preached the ensuing sermon to both auditories the same day , i now present it to you from the press ; not of mine own accord ( for then it had been better fitted for that purpose ) but as compelled thereunto for my own ( not to say your ) vindication . i have already appealed to my superiours as my judg ; to you i appeal as my witnesses : to them , whether the matter be either true in it self , or fitted to the occasion : to you , whether it be the sermon i preached . i cannot expect , that even the most attentive should remember every particular then delivered ; but i am confident , that you will be able generally to say , that this was the sermon i at that time entertained you with . and if this be so , ( as so it is ) then i need say no more , to answer those that have too rashly censured and traduced it as not at all suitable to the occasion it was preached upon . certainly if the doctrine therein contained be true , viz. that we must not do evil that good may come ; those that first invented , and so industriously spread the calumny , are not the best of men ( whatever end they think to serve by it ) nor a credit to that religion and church they profess to be of . i leave such to the sermon ; and recommend that , you , and my labours amongst you , to the blessing of almighty god , beseeching him to lead us into all truth . your servant in christ jesus , john williams . the reader is to take notice , that so much of the sermon as is thus marked " was , through want of time , not preached , or else not so fully as it is now printed . a sermon preached july . being the day set apart for a publick thanksgiving for the late victory over the rebels . rom . iii. , . if the truth of god hath more abounded through my lye unto his glory , why yet am i also judged as a sinner ? and not rather , as we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say , let us do evil that good may come , whose damnation is just ? in the former chapters of this epistle , the apostle had considered the sad condition which the whole mass of mankind was in , whether jews or gentiles ; and shewed that the jews , whatever preheminence they had of the gentiles , as god's peculiar people , and invested with many eminent priviledges and marks of the divine favour ; yet in case of unbelief and disobedience , they could not be thereby secured against the wrath of god which is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men , who hold the truth in unrighteousness [ ch . . . ] for there is no respect of persons with god [ ch . . . ] from whence he concludes , [ ver . . ] he is not a jew which is one outwardly , neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh ; but he is a jew which is one inwardly , and circumcision is that of the heart , in the spirit , and not in the letter , whose praise is not of men , but of god. against this , the apostle doth suppose it will probably be objected , what advantage then hath the jew ? or what profit is there of circumcision ? chap. . . to this he replies , v. . much every way ; chiefly , because that unto them were committed the oracles of god ; by which they had the best means in possession , of knowing what the will of god is , and the best encouragements in many excellent promises for obeying it . but if in the mean while , with all these advantages , they do not believe nor obey , is it reasonable to suppose that they should yet stand in the same condition as if they believed and obeyed ? and that god could not withdraw his favour , and disfranchise them of those priviledges , without being false to his word ? for what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith , or faithfulness , of god without effect ? god forbid . v. . against which the apostle considers it may be further objected , but if it happen that our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of god , v. . and that by the unbelief of the jews and their rejection upon it , god doth enlarge his church , and make the gentiles partakers of the same priviledg , is god unrighteous that taketh vengeance ? to this he replies with great indignation , god forbid ; for then how shall god judge the world ? and then what an horrid consequence would follow from it , viz. let us do evil that good may come : for , saith he , if the truth of god hath more abounded through my lye unto his glory , why yet am i also judged as a sinner ? and not rather , as we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say , let us do evil that good may come ? which words , and the coherence , will be better understood , if it be considered , that the th verse is but the repetition of the objection made verse . and the th verse is a continuation of the objection in verse . as will appear more evidently , . if the word rather , which is not in the original , be left out . and . if the following words , as we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say , be read by way of parenthesis . and . that the word [ why ] be repeated after this manner , if the truth of god hath more abounded through my lye unto his glory ; why yet am i also judged as a sinner ? and why not ( as we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say , ) let us do evil that good may come , whose damnation is just . so that the words , let us do evil that good may come , are an inference from the objection contained in the words , if the truth of god hath more abounded , &c. and which it seems some maliciously reported , that the apostle held ; and charged upon him as his principle and doctrine : but he protests it is a notorious calumny , and a doctrine he abhors , and so can be none of his ; that it 's a doctrine of pernicious consequence , and what no man can hold without apparent hazard of his salvation , whose damnation is just . which censure , tho it immediately refers to the authors of that slander cast upon him , yet hath also a respect to the impiety of the doctrine he disavows , and the danger such are in that do maintain it . this is at least implyed ; for if the damnation of such as invented the calumny , and threw it upon him , be just , then no less certainly is it true of such as do hold the doctrine it self , they calumniated him with . in treating upon these words , . i shall consider what evil it is which persons may pretend to do for the sake of what is good ; and what good it is that they may respect in doing evil. and , . i shall shew the unreasonableness and unlawfulness of doing evil that good may come . . i shall shew the danger in so doing , from the event of it , whose damnation is just . . i shall shew the prevalency of this principle in the christian world : of these as the time will permit . . what evil it is that persons may pretend to do for the sake of some good , &c. by evil , all sins are to be understood , whether they be a transgression of the law of nature , or of divine revelation ; whether they be sins of omission , or commission . . when i say , sins against the law of nature and revelation are hereby forbid , i understand thereby what is intrinsecally and of its own nature evil , and not what is so upon mutable reasons , such as that which is forbid by temporary and arbitrary laws , depending upon the mere will of the law-giver , or some present reasons . for in this case , that which is evil by such circumstance , may not only be done when that circumstance ceaseth , but also where there is an absolute necessity for it , tho the general reason for the observation of that law continue . thus it was in the case put by our saviour , when the law forbad the people to eat the shew-bread , and yet david with his company entred into the house of god when he was an hungred , and did eat it , matth. . , . but if the matter forbidden be intrinsecally evil , the case is otherwise , and no circumstance of things can alter it , as it is in violation of oaths , blaspheming of god , &c. . when i say sins of omission and commission are forbidden to be done for a good end ; we are to understand , that the omission of a duty is not concerned in it , when two duties do interfere , so that both cannot be performed together , and one must be omitted for the other ; for then the more necessary takes place of the less ; and the omission of the less , is so far then from being an evil , that it is a duty . so our saviour did when he healed on the sabbath day , luke . . and so he determined the case , when he saith , god will have mercy and not sacrifice , matth. . . the good which will not warrant any evil to be done for it , may be of two sorts . . positive privative : the preventing , avoiding , or removing any evil which we fear , foresee , or suffer by . . positive : the procuring , promoting , or establishing any good , whether publick or private , whether civil or religious . the thing called good , and especially that kind of good which is evidently known and own'd so to be ( such as the cause of god and religion , the good of the church , and salvation of mankind ) is so excellent , that he that doth most of all employ himself in it , and takes the most effectual course for preserving or obtaining it , is justly to be esteemed one of the best of men : and since this is so eminent and useful a good , it 's hard to think he can err that in any action or undertaking , has and keeps this in his eye , and doth steer his course according as that shall require and need . and therefore it 's both a temptation to mankind frequently to commit unwarrantable actions , and engage in unlawful designs for such an end , and a temptation to others to think well of it : but now if evil be evil in its nature , and is not to be changed , then evil is not to be done upon any reason whatsoever ; and the goodness of the end , as long as it cannot change the nature of the action , cannot make that to be no fault which was so before , and will be so after , and wherever that good end is not . so that whether there be a good end or not , evil is not to be done , since the evil is as well evil where this end is , as where it is not : and i may safely say , it is as lawful to do evil for evil's sake , as to do evil for the sake of what is good . and this i shall represent from the following considerations . . if evil may be done that good may come of it , it will in effect confound all difference betwixt good and evil ; since evil in such circumstances where ●t may serve a good end , is as eligible and fit to be done , as what is really good . now if what is evil in such case , is lawful , then that which is unlawful becomes lawful ; and where is then the difference betwixt good and evil , vertue and vice , lawful and unlawful , betwixt what is commanded , and what is forbidden ? that there is as vast a difference betwixt these two , as between light and darkness , all do acknowledg ; and setting aside the good end , evil will be evil , and what is evil will be unlawful to the world's end : but though these are never so contrary in notion and speculation , yet if they unite in practice , and that where good is the end , evil may be used as a means , there will be as much confusion , as if the difference had not been observed and determined in the notion : and there being no case in which there may not be some good , real or imaginary , pretended , there will be no case in which evil will not , or may not be done : and then if evil may be thus done , and allowably too , and lose its name , and for the present its nature ; then what evil is there which will not be legitimate ? for let but a good end , such as the glory of god , the advantage of the church , be placed in the van , and presently injustice and extortion , rapine and violence , oppression and tyranny , usurpation and disloyalty , and all the evils of the world may come in the rear ; and men need not boggle at whatever such a cause may need or require , when they have this to justifie them . so that by this means , evil shall be as securely and lawfully practised , as if it had nothing of that nature in it ; and by being in such good company , comes to lose its malignity , and become venial , say i , nay , praise-worthy and meritorious ; and what without that end was the worst of villanies , shall by it , become an heroical vertue , and divine quality . . it takes away all security and trust amongst men , and puts them into a posture of war. if there be no essential difference between good and evil , but that all actions are equally lawful in themselves , then no man is safe , further than the laws of the land , the authority of the magistrate , or his own power can make him : and though there be this difference , yet if it be not observed , but that a good end may throw it down , and make the evil to be good , and the unlawful to be lawful , then we are no longer quiet or safe than our neighbour hath no good end of his own to serve ; for if that comes into play , of a friend he may be an enemy , of a confident he may be a deceiver , a robber , or a traytor . and our security depending upon a great uncertainty , and what a person doth not now understand , he may in a little time perceive to be his interest ; we must be always upon our guard , and every man is bound , as far as his safety is concerned , to look upon the best of his friends as in a possibility of being his most dangerous enemy , and to converse and treat with all mankind with distrust , jealousie and fear . grant this , that evil becomes lawful by a good end , and we that live in amity and good correspondence , may be in as much danger as those that live at the foot of aetna or vesuvius , which in a moment do shake and tremble , and vomit forth their flames , and discharge them upon the neighbourhood , to their utter ruin and devastation ; and when we think our selves secure , may have all compacts broken , oaths dissolved , all difference betwixt superiours and inferiors confounded . it exposes the church and state to every pretender , and any one that has a mind , will never want a reason for insurrection and rebellion . for it 's but setting up a good end , and it gives him a right , as much ( if not more ) to assault , as the other to defend himself . so that this principle of doing evil that good may come , is as uncomfortable , as it is unsafe ; and cannot be true if the peace and good order of the world be to be minded and secured , and if it be possible for it so to be . . if this principle be true , it would be a disparagement to the wisdom and power of divine providence , or argue a distrust in it . the providence of god doth govern the world , and as the glory of god , and the good of mankind are the ends it doth respect and prosecute , so it 's above all temptation to use such means for the accomplishing those ends , as are dishonourable and inglorious , base and infamous : but if this be allowed , that we may do evil that good may come , it would represent the divine providence as a friend to such courses ; or that it as much needed our help in order to the attaining those ends , as an evil course is supposed necessary for those that would attain it . but now if the divine providence is a displaying the wisdom and power , the justice and goodness of god , then it neither needs nor uses any such arts as will debase his authority , and be a diminution to his divine perfections : and consequently , if such are used , it shews a distrust of divine providence in those that use them : and so what was unlawful without that good end pretended to be respected , is for that reason unlawful with it . if therefore persons do pass the bounds prescribed them by the divine law ( whatever cause they do it for ) it's to betake themselves to diabolical arts , and to call in the devil to their assistance . they do like saul , who went to the witch when god had forsaken him : or as ahaziah , that in his sickness sent to baalzebub the god of ekron , when there was a god in israel , kings . , . such do in effect disown the presence of god in the world , or the concernment he hath for the managing of things in it . for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of god , jam. . . and his cause doth not need any unjust arts to defend and support it : and if by all that men can lawfully do , they are not able to maintain or promote it , they are to proceed no farther , but to leave it to the wisdom and power of god to contrive and prosecute what may serve for the accomplishing so excellent an end . we are always to resign up our wills and understandings and devices to him , and to believe that when we have done all we lawfully can , he will in his good time , and by ways of his own , do what we cannot ; and we cannot do what is unlawful and evil. as long as we thus do , and contain our selves within the bounds of our religion , we give a due respect to divine providence ; but if we once venture to pass them , we must either suspect our cause , or god's concernment in it ; and so disparage our selves , or the protection we profess to depend upon . i shall close this with the observation of the son of syrach , ecclus. . , , . say not thou it is through the lord that i turn back [ or aside ] for thou oughtest not to do the things that he hateth . say not thou he hath caused me to err ; for he hath no need of the sinful man. the lord hateth all the abomination of error , and they that fear god love it not . ver. . he hath commanded no man to do ungodly , neither hath he given any man license to sin . . the principle of doing evil that good may come , doth evacuate and disannull the authority of god's commands , as if we were no further to respect them , than may be for our own private convenience and interest , or the convenience and interest of the church or state. for if the goodness of the end may make the means to be good , how wicked and unjust soever they otherwise are ; then the law of god , which forbids that evil , is of no obligation , when that end comes between ; and so what the law doth condemn , it would allow ; and what it doth forbid , it would set us again loose from ; it would leave it wholly in our own power , whether we would keep or break it , and to break it would be as much to obey , as to keep it . by this means , the commands of god would be contriv'd rather to serve our ends than his , and be made more to provide for our ease and security , than his honour and glory . how would this overthrow the authority , and disparage the excellency of gods law , and render the threatning of our saviour insignificant ? matth. . . whosoever shall break one of the least commandments , and shall teach men so , he shall be called the least in , and be utterly excluded the kingdom of heaven . . if this were true , it would change the very notion and character of a good man , who is described , with job , to be an upright man , one that fears god , and eschews evil . with david , to be a man after god's own heart , sam. . . with nathaneel , to be an israelite indeed , in whom there is no guile , joh. . . christians are to be wise as serpents , but harmless as doves , matth. . . they are to be free and ingenuous , candid and open , plain and sincere ; they are to love , and their love is to be without dissimulation , rom. . . but to allow the doing evil that good may come , would be to be wise without innocency ; to fear god , and not to eschew evil ; to be an israelite , and yet full of guile ; that is , to be a christian , and to be none ; to pretend one thing , and be another . . if this doctrine be true , it would be a great disparagement to religion , and make that in conclusion to be a patron of vice , which in its precepts and directions , it 's a declared enemy unto . it was to little purpose that the heathens had a religion , and gods , when their gods were supposed to be inclinable to , and enslaved by the same passions which ruled amongst men : and what veneration could such persons give to those kind of deities , who abhorred those vices which reigned amongst the objects of their adoration . and tho our religion is never so pious in its institution , yet if by some collateral ways it permits men to be impious , it would be as contemptible as the gods among the heathens . it 's the excellency of the christian religion , that by its precepts and commands , its arguments and motives , its considerations and rewards , it doth drive at the perfection of humane nature , and bring men into a propinquity to god , and a capacity of conversing with him here , and enjoying him hereafter . it purifies the heart , rectifies the intentions , governs the actions of men. it makes them humble and lowly , gentle and meek , contented and satisfied . it 's a religion contrived for the good of mankind in every capacity and state. but if this should be tolerated and maintained by it , that men might do evil for a good end , it would take in again all the mischief it did discountenance and controul , threaten and condemn ; and the world would be filled with the spawn of all manner of wickedness whatsoever , under the profession of religion . this would effectually destroy the honour , and put a stop to the success of it . it would turn the minds of all good and vertuous men against it , and induce them to think it no more worthy of their respect , than mahomet's paradise would be of their choice ; nay , than the sands and deserts of africa , where each creature preys upon its fellow , as it hath an opportunity for it . and therefore from these and the like reasons , it is no wonder that the apostle did with indignation cast off the aspersion charged upon him by the false apostles , that he declared against it with all his might , and doom'd it to the pit of hell : and which again we find him defying , rom. . , . what shall we say then ? shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ? god forbid . which leads us to the next general . iii. this principle of doing evil that good may come , is not only thus evil in its nature , and mischievous in the direful consequences of it in this world ; but is also as pernicious to the souls of men in the other . for , saith the apostle , their damnation is just : that is , those that hold it , and act according to it , are in such a dangerous condition ; that nothing less than a full , sincere , and speedy repentance , can prevent their final and eternal destruction : it being not only the will of god so resolving , and the word of god so declaring , that damnation belongs to them ; but there is the reason of the thing for it , implied in the phrase , whose damnation is just . for if we reflect upon the principle ( to sum up what i have said ) it leads to such manifold and desperate mischiefs ; doth so evidently tend to , and most commonly conclude in the overthrow of all good order and government , peace and unity in the world ; doth so much derogate from the honour of gods providence , and his religion ; doth so much pervert the tempers of men , that it must needs be very hateful to him , who is a god of truth , equity , and order ; and so can no more like , than he can need such conclusions and practices . and consequently , the persons holding such principles , and engaging in practices issuing from , and conformable to them , must also be the objects of his heavy displeasure . but it may be said , where is this principle to be met with , and where are the persons that do hold and defend this principle ? this is to be resolved in the last general . which is , iv. to shew the prevalency of this in the christian world. and here i could wish i had nothing further to say , but that as no religion has more discountenanced such prineiples and proceedings than the christian , so no nations nor persons had more discountenanced the thing than those that have professed it ; but it is too notorious to be dissembled : for that there have been rebellions against , and depositions of princes , dissolutions of governments ; taking and breaking of oaths ; and other things apparently evil , of that and the like kind done , to serve a cause , a party , or a church , is no mystery now-a-days : and if any one lacks to be inform'd , i had rather , at the present , he should receive it from the publick records , in which those things are deposited , than from me . all i pray is , that at length the christian world may understand their religion better , and their secular interest less ; or that they would see it to be their best and truest interest to be guided by their religion ; which teaches the wholsome doctrine of being subject to the higher powers , and that they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation , rom. . . and as in the text , that we must not do evil that good may come . and according to this principle of the apostle ( that it was unlawful and damnable to do evil that good may come ) did our saviour christ , and the christians of the primitive church proceed . none ever had a power greater than our saviour to confound and destroy his enemies , nor a better end to serve , and which he died to accomplish ; and yet he did not use that power when urged by the apostles to command fire from heaven to consume those that would not receive him ; but rebuked them , and said , ye know not what spirit ye are of , luk. . , . and the primitive christians , though so desirous of professing and propagating their religion , that they cheerfully laid down their lives to bear witness to it , and that the world might see they followed not cunningly devised fables ; yet never made use of any secular power to defend it or themselves ( when not without it ) ; but , like moses , endured all things , as seeing him who is invisible ; and that knew when god thought fit , and the fulness of his time was come , that truth should over-power all manner of opposition whatsoever . and in conformity to this , are the confessions of faith in all the protestant and reformed church●s , from which there can nothing be drawn , that will justifie opposition or rebellion against civil authority ; but they expresly declare against it . and if any particular persons amongst them , ( as there are ) have defended it , we know from whence they fetched their artillery , i mean their arguments , and whither they went to sharpen their weapons . and i may say , that generally speaking , they have acted according to those principles of submission in all lawful things to superiours , and of making no hostile opposition to them . so it was in our nation , when queen mary was a known member of the roman church , yet the protestants first joined with her against the lady jane grey , who was invested with the title of queen , and was a protestant . and in france , the protestants joined with henry the d , of another religion , and supported him against the league of those that were of his own perswasion . and this particularly is the avowed doctrine of the church of england , in all its articles and homilies at large , three * of which are against rebellion . from all which , we may understand what enemies they are to our religion , as well as the publick peace , that do proceed upon the principle of doing evil that good may come ; and that so they set up religion , care not what they do , nor what disparagement they bring upon that , as well as injury to the publick . and what to think of those that were animated to the late rebellion amongst us ( so happily quelled ) by this pretence . it is evident , i think , that the chief of them had other things in their eye , and that it was not so much religion , as ambition , or revenge , or the avoiding punishment for other crimes , &c. that instigated them hereunto . but if we allow the reason to be true , and not fictitious , yet it is not good nor sufficient , as i have shewed . and we have therefore reason to bless god , that he hath prevented , as well the propagating this principle ( by their success ) as the blood-shed and confusion that would have ensued ; and the rebellion and contention that would otherwise have prevailed with it , if not been entailed upon these nations . we have indeed deserved that god should thus punish us , whom plague and fire , and other judgments , have left , for the most part , unreformed . and therefore so much the greater reason have we for the blessing of god that he has yet had mercy for us , and that he has rather taken up the rod to affright us , than to destroy us ; that we may yet sit under our own vines and fig-trees , and enjoy our selves , and the fruit of our honest labours and industry ; and what is more , the gospel , in peace . the lord grant that we be truly sensible of his undeserved favours , and may shew our thankfulness , by our loyalty to our prince , stedfastness to our religion , and the holiness of our lives ; that by our submission to authority , the peaceableness and piety of our conversations , we may bring honour to god and our religion . if we thus do good , we are sure that good will come of it ; for the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * it should be six , or six parts of the homily . the unreasonableness of infidelity a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, april , , being the fourth of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the unreasonableness of infidelity a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, april , , being the fourth of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : mdcxcvi [ ] reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. bible. -- n.t. -- luke xvi, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the vnreasonableness of infidelity . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , april . . being the fourth of the lecture for this present year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . mdcxcvi . luke xvi . . and he said unto him , if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be persuaded , though one rise from the dead . from the th . verse of this chapter to the end , under the parable of ( if i may so call it ) the rich man and lazarus , there is a way proposed , by which we may best judge of the wisdom and folly , the happiness and misery of mankind . and it is as if our saviour had said ; suppose we a man as happy as the world can make him , abounding in prosperity , wealth , ease and luxury , that wanted nothing for his vanity , for he was in a condition honourable and splendid , was cloathed in purple , and fiue linen , and silk ; nothing for his appetite , for he fared sumptuously every day . and when he died , was buried with ceremony and pomp agreable to his quality . suppose we on the other hand a person as miserable as this world can make him , poor so as to beg ; full of sores and ulcers , so as not able to help himself ; destitute of friends , so as to be cast at the rich man's gate ; hunger-starved so as to need the very crumbs which fell from the other's table ; contemned so as not to be regarded though lying at the gate , in the passage and view of all ; or if taken notice of , yet so as not to be relieved ; naked , so as not to have wherewith to cover his body , or to defend his sores from the cold , and that found more pity among the dogs than men , while alive ( for they came and licked his sores ) ; and when dead through want , pain and anguish , found as little charity to bury him . thus far we find them as unlike as can be in their present condition . but now let us follow them beyond the grave , and see what becomes of them in the other world . there we find the poor lazarus , that once pitiful , contemptible , necessitous wretched creature , that wanted what the dogs had here , the crumbs of the table , taken care of at his death by the holy angels , and carried by them into a place of safety and rest , comfort and happiness , where abraham was , and there preferr'd to a place of honour and kindness ; for he lay in abraham's bosom , having no poverty , nor sores , nor contempt , nor any of the evil things he received in his life-time here . this he had because of his afflictions that he endured , and bore with admirable patience ; because of his steady dependance upon god , and an humble submission to him in the most deplorable condition . on the other hand , the rich man when he died went to hell , where he had none of the ease and luxury , the respect and honour , none of the good things he received in his life-time , but was tormented in a flame , wanting water there as much to cool his tongue , and quench his insatiable thirst , as lazarus did before the crumbs which fell from his table to satisfy his hunger . there he was , and there he was to abide , for there was a great gulph fixed , that rendred him as uncapable of receiving relief in the other world , as he was neglectful and unwilling to give it to such as needed in this . this he had for his pride and unmercifulness , for his contempt of god , and of others better than himself . this he was too late sensible of as to himself ; he lift up his eyes , but he was in torments ; he cried to his father abraham , but he proves inexorable ; he calls for mercy , but is minded of his former ingratitude to god , and his uncharitableness to others , and is put to silence with a son remember , that thou in thy life-time receivedst thy good things , ver . . when he could not prevail for himself , he then turns his thoughts towards his five brethren , whom he left behind , that were as careless , and so likely at last to be as miserable as himself , and intreats abraham that lazarus might be sent to testify unto them , how it was with him , and how it would also be with them unless they repented , ver . . to which abraham replies , ver . . they have moses and the prophets , let them hear them . but that doth not satisfy him , and he urges further : nay , father abraham , but if one went from the dead , they will repent , ver . . this he speaks from his own experience , who had moses and the prophets as well as they , and yet he was as secure and careless , as if he had never heard or knew what they taught ; and therefore unless some other expedient be thought of , or some other means used , they are like in the conclusion to be as miserable as himself ; and surely that , if any , would prevent it , if one went from the dead . but to this abraham replies in the text , if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be persuaded , though one rise from the dead ; that is , if they give no credit nor regard to what is contained in their writings concerning a future state of rewards and punishments , they are incurable , neither will they be persuaded to repent , ( as it is ver . . ) though one rise from the dead . that there is a future state of happiness or misery , in which the souls of men do live after a separation from their bodies , has been in all ages universally received ; but yet was not so convincingly to be proved from the sole light of reason , but that a fuller evidence of it was very desirable : for which there are but two ways , either that of divine revelation , by persons divinely inspired ; or by the return of one from the dead , who was before known to the living . and these are the ways taken here into consideration by our saviour , in the case before us : where there may be three sorts of persons concerned . . those that had not moses and the prophets , and were wholly without a revelation ; as was the case of the heathens : and how shall they believe , who have not heard ? rom. . . . those that had moses and the prophets , and yet were incredulous , and did not believe what moses and the prophets relate concerning a future state. such were the sadducees , who held there was no resurrection , angel , nor spirit existing out of a body . . those that had moses and the prophets , and did believe what was therein revealed , concerning the soul's immortality and a future life , but were not thereby persuaded to repent . such were the pharisees , who professed to believe what the sadducees denied : and of this sort were the rich man ( here spoken of ) and his five brethren supposed to be . now toward the conviction of each of these , it might be supposed , that if one rose from the dead , the former would be persuaded to believe , and the latter to repent . thus the heathens reasoned , who had no revelation . as that excellent person canus julus ( that seneca speaks of ) who just before his execution said to his friends , * ye are inquisitive to know whether the souls are immortal ; i shall now know . and he promised , † if he found it so , that he would go about among his friends , and would inform themwhat was the state of departed souls . and the same seneca , when discoursing to lucilius about the behaviour of bassus aufidius , how dying he spake of death as a friend , and what a confirmation this gave to the doctrine of the souls immortality , he adds , * but i suppose you would more firmly believe it , if one should return to life again , and should declare that he found no evil in death . to this they gladly repaired as an evidence where they found it . and therefore plato produceth the instance of erus armenius , that after he had been dead twelve days , revived , and gave much such an account of the other state , as we have in this parable . but 't is the case of revelation we christians are more immediately concerned in , and which our saviour here speaks to , and prefers before the testimony of one rising from the dead . the way here proposed concerning the coming of one from the dead , has somewhat of common experience on its side . for we see that notwithstanding the clear revelation of another state in scripture , and the belief that men have of it , yet generally they are but little affected with these arguments , though allowed to be of the greatest importance , because they lie dead in a book , and are proposed to them by such as have no more personal experience of these things than themselves , having never been out of this world , nor had any sight of , or conversation with the other . but now if a special messenger should be sent from the other world ; a lazarus who was known to them when alive , and known by them to be dead ; one that had been an ocular witness of the things he spoke of and related , and should tell them , that as there is a state of happiness for good men , so a state of misery for the wicked , a state of misery without ease , respit , or hope of deliverance , and confirmed all by his appearance , surely this would move them : surely no heart so hard , but this must penetrate ; no mind so stup●d , but this must awaken ; no sinner so incorrigible , but this must reclaim . and it may be left to every one to judge , whether if there were such an apparition that should come upon this terrible errand , any one could see and hear it with the same calmness and indifference , as he hears a sermon , or reads a chapter in the bible upon this serious argument . so that the advantage seems to be much on the side of the apparition ; and the proposal here made , agreeable to the common sense of mankind . but how probable a course soever this seems to be , yet our saviour here determines on the contrary , if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither , &c. which answer may be resolved into these two parts . . that the arguments contained in the scriptures , are sufficient to persuade men to repent . . when men disregard the holy scriptures , ( the ordinary means of salvation ) so as not to be persuaded to repent by the arguments therein contained , they will not be persuaded by means extraordinary , and though , for example , one should rise from the dead . the first of these , viz. that the arguments contained , &c. is supposed , ver . . when abraham saith , they have moses and the prophets , let them hear them : and this the other doth not deny . now the chief arguments relating to this subject are briefly touched upon in this parable ; which are these : . that the souls of men are immortal , this is implied when the rich man and lazarus are said to be in being after they were dead , ver . . . that the state into which the souls of men are disposed after death , is a state of recompence , abraham saith , ver . . he is comforted , and thou art tormented . . that that state of recompence is a state of unchangeable happiness to some , and of endless misery to others , ver . . between us and you there is a great gulph fixed , so that they which would pass from hence to you [ to relieve you ] , cannot ; neither can they pass to us , that would come from thence [ for relief ] . . that men are disposed to happiness or misery there , according to their behaviour in this world , ver . . saith abraham , son , remember , that thou in thy life-time receivedst thy good things , and likewise lazarus evil things , but now he is comforted , and thou art tormented . these are considerations of such force and consequence , that this miserable person desires not that lazarus should be sent to argue upon them with his five brethren , but to testify concerning their reality . arguments they are of such force , that he that will not by these be persuaded to repent , will never be persuaded by any other . but though this be all granted to be true ( as it 's supposed ) , yet in his opinion , as the case would admit further evidence , so it seemed to need it ; and therefore if this extraordinary course were taken of sending one from the dead , they would ( in his opinion ) certainly repent , who with the ordinary means continue impenitent . this brings to the d general . . when men disregard the ordinary means of salvation , and are not to be persuaded to repent by the arguments revealed in holy scripture , they will not be persuaded by means extraordinary , and though one should come from the dead to persuade them . for the resolving of which point , we are to consider what are the reasons why the ordinary means of salvation , such as the holy scriptures are , prove ineffectual ; which cannot be from the want of proper and forcible arguments ; for whatever one from the dead can say to move or persuade , is as plainly deliver'd in scripture . he cannot more expresly tell them that there is a god , that the souls of men are immortal , that there is a heaven and a hell , than the scripture doth . and therefore if what is thus revealed , and believed upon such revelation , should not prove as effectual , as what is reported by a special messenger from the dead ; it must be from some reasons which belong to the one , and not to the other ; but that there is no ground for ; and therefore from whence can this proceed , but from the excessive love to the things of this life , and the indulgence men give to themselves in the enjoyments of it ? whence should this proceed but from the power of those lusts and vicious habits they have contracted ? and where these and the like causes are , a messenger from the other world will make no stronger an impression , nor will an impression thereby made , be of any longer continuance , than in the other case : but that he that will not be persuaded by moses and the prophets , will not be persuaded though one come from the dead . and this i shall make good , . by parallel and sutable cases and instances . by a particular inquiry into the causes of impenitence , which will hold in one case as well as the other . . by parallel cases . as , ( . ) if means as extraordinary , and more extraordinary than the coming of one from the dead , have failed in this point , and not persuaded men to repentance , we have as little reason to expect , nor can it reasonably be presumed , that the coming of one from the dead , should persuade and become effectual . as for instance ; let us consider the case of pharaoh , before whom such stupendious miracles were wrought , and upon whom such astonishing judgments were inflicted , as could not in reason be supposed resistible : when the waters , earth , and air , beasts , fishes , and fruits of the earth , men and children , either felt or were made the instruments of divine vengeance . could it be thought that when the waters were turned into blood , and frogs covered the face of the earth , and the dust of it was converted into lice , and the plague of flies followed that of lice ; and murrain , flies ; and boils , the murrain ; and hail , boils ; and locusts , hail ; and darkness locusts ; and the killing of the first-born , the darkness ; that he should yet be so obstinate as not to let the people of israel go ; and when he did , should follow them into the midst of the sea ? could disappointment , vexation , and revenge , so far infatuate him , that miracle after miracle , scourge upon scourge , could not persuade him , nor the sense of so imminent a danger stop him in his carier , but that he persisted in his first resolution , and blinded thus with rage , pursued it to his destruction ? can it be supposed now , that one from the dead could more have prevailed upon him than this scene of judgments ? could it have come with so much terror ? or if it should , may not the sinner be alike obstinate and infatuated ? may not the like passions and sensual affections , or a habit of sin , keep a person from hearkening to , or following the advice of one come from the dead ? let us consider again , how it was with the israelites , who had not only been spectators of those miracles and judgments in egypt , but stood safe in the midst of them ; that were preserved , directed , and fed by a continued series of miracles , and yet were not only upon every occasion tempting and provoking god by their distrust , impatience and murmuring , but were for returning into egypt again . thus it was also with their posterity in our saviour's time , who notwithstanding the plain fulfilling of their ancient prophesies in him , notwithstanding the innocency of his life , the purity , sanctity , and evidence of his doctrine , the power of his miracles , changing the course of nature as he pleased ; healing the sick , opening the eyes of such as were born blind , casting out devils , and raising the dead . nay , notwithstanding his resurrection , and the unquestionable confirmation of it , yet continued obstinate and incredulous , and what they could not deny , would impute to beelzebub . now what comparison is there between the coming of one from the dead , and this case ? or what reason is there to conceive that a wicked jew should have been more effectually reclaimed from a vicious course of life , and be made a penitent by the coming of one from the dead , than the jewish infidel should be made a convert by all those numerous miracles , and become a christian ? and why may not the one be as well impenitent , as the other an infidel ? . it may be supposed in reason , that what a person hears from another , should in a matter of importance alike affect him in one case as in another : and if he is not persuaded by the one , there is no reason to expect he should be prevailed upon by the other . such indeed is the testimony of one rising from the dead , who must be acknowledged to be a very fit evidence concerning the reality of a future state , and the condition of separate souls in it , as he has been personally acquainted with it , and had a part in it . but such also is the testimony of a trembling sinner , that after a vicious course of life , entring upon the confines of death , and expecting every moment to be snatched away by that inexorable enemy , feels now the anguish no less than he formerly relished the pleasures of his sin ; that cries out in the bitterness of his soul , that he is sensible , but he fears too late , of his former folly : that he is now prey'd upon by a thousand vipers , and feels a hell in himself before he descends into it . and in this agony calls upon all about him , and the once sworn companions in his vices , to take warning by him , and no longer to entertain themselves with the charms of those noxious pleasures he is now burdened with the guilt of , and would not for a world repeat , if he was to live his life over again . is not here a living and present testimony ? and if one should come from the dead , can he say more , or can his testimony be of greater force concerning the state he comes from , than this of the awakened penitent , if not despairing sinner , is , concerning the evil , the guilt , and terror of sin ? and yet if this be not attended to , or the force of it be soon carried off by a glass of wine , and the charms of company and temptation , or tract of time ; can it be supposed that the same event may not happen to the other ? and will not the hardned and impenitent sinner as much despise , or as soon forget the admonitions of this ghostly monitor , as those of a dying desponding friend ? . it may be expected that what a person sees himself , should more affect him , than what he hears only by the report of others . and if what he sees , ( though in a matter of necessity and importance ) makes little or no impression upon him ; how can it be supposed , that what he hears only from another should affect him ? and this is the case : for if one came from the dead to bear witness to the truth of a future state of recompence , and of the misery of impenitent souls in it , it 's only testimony and report , and what can neither be of that certainty nor force , as if the person to whom he comes upon this errand , had himself been in that state. but now there are those things which a person sees , and which should in reason , according to the nature of the things , as much move him , as the testimony of one coming from the dead . and of this kind is death , which we every day have in view , and are no more secured against the very next moment , than those that are already departed . the plain consequence of which is this , that 't is then our greatest wisdom so to order our selves and all our affairs , that we may meet it withour surprize or terror , and may live as we would wish we had done , when that fatal hour doth approach . and yet if we take a view of mankind , we find them generally as secure , as if they alone were immortal ; or as improvident , as if they had death under such an obligation , that it must give them time and leisure sufficient to put all things in order , before it shall proceed to executeits sentence . now if in a matter so apparent , sensible , and certain , there is so little , where there ought to be the greatest concernment , and mankind is so difficultly moved , that they either don't consider , or the consideration of it makes them no wiser or better ; what reason is there to imagine , that the testimony of another , though it be one from the dead , should make any lasting impression upon them , and persuade them to repent ? . what a person feels himself , should in reason more affect him , than what he hears or sees of others . and if what he himself feels makes little or no impression upon him , 't is not to be conceived , that what he only sees or hears should move him . in confirmation of which , we may reflect upon the common state and behaviour of mankind , in the judgments and afflictions that befal them , the dangers they are in , the terrors they are under . in which and the like cases , we shall find them too often insensible and incorrigible , or inconstant and unresolved . sometimes they are insensible under the severest judgments : as it was with ahaz , who for his idolatry was delivered up to his enemies ; on the east , the king of assyria ; on the north , the king of israel ; on the south , the edomite ; on the west , the philistines , invade and spoil his territories ; as we have it , chron. . , , , . and yet when brought thus low for his transgressions , it 's said of him , in the time of his distress he trespassed yet more against the lord , ver . . at other times , if sensible , yet they are inconstant , and in the event prove incorrigible . as it was with the israelites , psal. . , &c. when he slew them , then they sought him , and enquired early after god , &c. nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth , &c. for their heart was not right with god , neither were they stedfast in his covenant . now can it be supposed that an apparition of one from the dead should do more than these ; and that he should by that be disposed to repent , whom the severest judgments left impenitent ? or suppose the sinner terrified hereby , and melted into an affectionate temper ; yet have we not examples of that kind every day , of persons that after all the terrors they are under , are set no nearer to a true repentance ; and though they seem for a while by some good resolutions to make towards the kingdom of heaven , are never able to enter , ( as our saviour expresses it ) luk. . . view we then a sinner under the power of his convictions , in the time of danger and distress , when he has no way to escape . how terrified has he been in his own mind at the approaches of death ! how grave , solemn and serious has it made him ! how importunate has he been for mercy , and for some longer time to finish his repentance ! what promises , resolutions , and vows has he made ! what imprecations has he wished upon himself , if ever he should prove false to them ; and desired no mercy if ever he should break them ! lord , will he say , spare me but this once ; try me but once more , and then if i return to my former sins , or neglect to put my self into a capacity for thy favour and mercy , let me never find it . as it was with pharaoh , who said to moses , forgive my sin only this once , and intreat the lord that he may take away from me this death only , exod. . . now could the apparition of one from the dead do more than this ? can we suppose the sinner more terrified , more seriously concerned and resolved , than when he had his own conscience thus impartially representing the case to him , and almighty god awakening his conscience by an extraordinary providence ? and now let us consider the event of this , and whether after this tender disposition of mind , and seeming resolution , he is a true penitent ; or that , in the phrase of the text , he will repent , and that this will necessarily be the issue of it . suppose we then this languishing person rescued out of the jaws of death by a merciful providence , and put into the condition of making a second tryal , and of giving a proof of his thankfulness to god , and of his fidelity to his sick-bed vows and resolutions . let us suppose him again breathing in a free air , and having all the inticing objects afresh presented to him , that he was before conversant with . let us trace him along , and we shall find him , as the terror and sense of his danger wears off , first covertly looking , then remotely following , at last overtaking and closing with the same temptations ; and perhaps plunging himself further into the same licentious state than before . grant we now that there is a just reason for the sinner's terror , if the ghost of his deceased friend , and the once inseparable partner in his vices , should appear , and plainly represent to him the desert of sin in the miseries of another life , and the certainty of his having a portion in them without repentance . grant we ( and he must be a stone rather than a man , whom it has no influence upon ) that he is brought by it into the state of belshazzar , dan. . that his countenance is changed , and his thoughts so trouble him , that the joints of his loins are unloosed , and his knees smite one against another . yet still this may be , and he be no true penitent , nor this prove a means effectual enough to reform him . for a man repents no further than his will and temper is changed ; and if these remain the same , he no more repents to whom the dead has appeared ( whatever terrors he may be under ) than he that was upon the borders of death : and he may and will as soon as he , upon occasion , repent of his repentance . so certainly true is that which was before observed , that the causes which hinder men from being persuaded to repentance by the arguments of scripture , will also keep them from being persuaded by means extraordinary , such as the coming of one from the dead . and that the cares of this world , and the deceitfulness of riches , and the lusts of other things , will as well render the extraordinary means ineffectual , as choke the word of god , and make it unfruitful . let god send all the plagues of egypt , and yet pharaoh will harden his heart : let the sea be divided , and manna rained from heaven , and water break out of the rock , and the water of the rock follow them for years together . let them have a cloud by day , and a pillar of fire by night as their guide , and an angel for their safeguard , and yet the israelites will be tempting , provoking , and murmuring . let one come and do the works which never man did ; give sight to the blind ; feet to the lame ; health to the sick ; life to the dead . let the sun be darkned ; the rocks rend ; the graves be opened , and the dead appear : nay , let him that did all this , and for whose sake it was done , rise again from the dead , and visibly ascend into heaven ; yet the obstinate jew will be incredulous . let a ghost appear , and preach over the despised doctrines of the soul's immortality , and the reality of a future state , and of a judgment to come , and reinforce it from his own knowledge and experience , and verify all this by his return from the dead : and yet the sinner , the customary sinner , is not to be reclaimed ; who like the deaf adder stops his ears against the voice of the charmer , charm he never so powerfully and wisely , psal. . . it 's then all one whether it be moses and the prophets , christ and the apostles , revelation , or the resurrection of one from the dead , when the temper is otherwise inclined : and if the honours , profits , advantages , and pleasures of the world do render the one , they will also render the other ineffectual . so true is that , wisd. . . that wickedness by bewitching , obscureth the things that are good ; and will disarm all arguments can be produced , of their force and efficacy . . i might further prove this , by considering the reasons why men don't believe and repent , and the excuses they make for delays in it , which will as well frustrate the testimony and persuasions of one from the dead , as it doth the arguments of divine revelation . ( . ) the reasons have been partly shewed already , and they are the prevalency of corrupt inclinations ; the presence of temptations ; the habits of vice ; or a worldly interest ; which are the usual obstructions to repentance , and have a greater power over men to detain them in sin , than all the arguments of the gospel , and the convictions of their own minds , have to reclaim them from it . we see that though they have line upon line , the most powerful motives in the world , such threatnings as make them at some times with foelix to tremble : such comfortable doctrines as make them at other times with herod to hear gladly : such moving and awakening considerations , as bring them with balaam to desire to dye , and further than him , to a desire to live the life of the righteous ; yet they soon fail of their force ; and the foelix was the foelix that left his preacher paul in bonds : and the balaam was the balaam that as well took , as he loved , the wages of unrighteousness : and the herod was the herod that beheaded john baptist whom he observed and heard with pleasure . for all these passions are like qualms that soon pass off , and prevail not so far as to alter the temper . and where persons are thus under the power of their lusts , they will continue in the same state , if one came from the dead to warn and reprove them . and therefore if john b. had rose from the dead , as herod once imagined and believed , it would no more have made him a true penitent , than the preaching of that holy man did , when alive ; as long as herodias was by him to seduce him , and he was contented to be seduced . ( . ) the case is the same with persons in delaying heir repentance ; and if the excuse against the present necessity of it prevail in one case , they will also prevail in the other . so that he that will not be persuaded to a present repentance , by the arguments of the gospel , will not be persuaded by the testimony and admonition of one from the dead . and upon the whole the question is , whether a person may not reason the same way , and as much to his own delusion , against the testimony and persuasions of one from the dead , as against the authority and arguments of scripture , and at last be as far from repentance and a present repentance ? and whether there is not reason to conclude , that if these and the like excuses prove sufficient to detain men in impenitency notwithstanding all the arguments to the contrary , contained in scripture ; the same will not be of as much force , and have as much influence upon the sinner , if one should come from the dead to admonish him ? i am confident that this is not to be gainsaid . and so the proposition before laid down remains good , that the reasons for which persons give no heed to , or are not persuaded by the authority and arguments of scripture , to believe and repent , will keep them from giving heed to , and being persuaded by the coming of one from the dead . but this is a case i shall not further prosecute ; for it needs consideration , rather than proof . i shall therefore close all with three or four inferences . . from hence i infer , that there is no absolute need of any other course to be taken for the conviction and conversion of sinners , than what is already taken ; or that extraordinary means should be used , where the ordinary are sufficient . if there be a revelation , which is believed certainly to be divine , and the arguments contained in that revelation are sufficient to persuade men to believe and repent , then there is no need of miracles , nor of a voice from heaven , nor the resurrection of one from the dead . if there be impenitency with reason and proof sufficient to convince and persuade men , there will be impenitency still , with such proof as is more than sufficient . these things are written that ye might believe , joh. . . and consequently , what is written , is sufficient to persuade us to a belief of what is written . . god is not bound to give , nor can men in reason desire or expect , that he should use an extraordinary course where the ordinary is sufficient ; and that one should rise from the dead for their conviction , who have moses and the prophets , christ and the apostles . it was the temper of thomas , except i shall see in his hands the print of the nails , and thrust my hand into his side , i will not believe , joh. . . this was the temper of the incredulous jews , let him come down from the cross , and we will believe , matt. . . so celsus the heathen will have it , if christ were the son of god , that he should have been 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , like the sun ; and the miserable person here would have one rise from the dead . there will be no end if once we exceed the ordinary bounds , and expect evidence beyond what is sufficient : for then men may require to be rapt up into paradise , as st. paul was ; or to see the heavens opened , and the son of man standing on the right hand of god , as did st. stephen : nay , they may be as impertinent as philip , and say , shew us the father , and it sufficeth . . we are bound to believe what we have sufficient evidence for ; and to repent when the reasons and motives to it are sufficient , though we have not all the evidence that may be given , and that 't is possible for god to give . 't is possible for god to send a lazarus from the dead , to testify unto the impenitent , concerning the certainty of a place of torment in the other world. and 't is possible , though not very probable , ( as i have shew'd ) that may be a means to awaken such , and bring them to repentance , whom the doctrine of divine revelation , and the arguments of scripture could not prevail upon . but that doth not lessen the obligation of believing and doing according to revelation ; and which without such further evidence is of it self sufficient for their conversion . . those that have the evidence of divine revelation , and yet do not believe and repent according to that revelation , are wholly inexcusable ; they have moses and the prophets , saith our saviour , let them hear them ; for that was sufficient , and all that was necessary to bring them to repentance here , and salvation hereafter . and if they that had moses and the prophets only , were inexcusable , what can those plead , who have not only moses and the prophets , but christ and the apostles , who have brought life and immortality to light through the gospel ? and who must therefore have so many more reasons against them , as there are more for the confirmation of the truth of our religion , and for the conviction of unbelievers , than there were under the law : and therefore if any continue in a state of unbelief and impenitence under the gospel , it will be more tolerable for sodom and gomorrah in the day of judgment than for them . if such do perish , 't is wholly from themselves : if such do perish , 't is not through want of information sufficient to direct them ; not through want of arguments powerful enough to convince them ; not through want of authority sufficient to oblige them ; not through want of sufficient grace to enable them ; not through want of mercy in god , or merit in a saviour , or a will , desire or endeavour in both to save them , but from themselves . and how just will then the sentence of condemnation be to such ! how will all pleas then be prevented ! and how miserable must his case be , that is condemned by himself before he is condemned by god! to conclude , here is life and death set before us , in the most pressing arguments ; the most powerful motives ; the most persuasive invitations to repentance . we have here proposed to us all that moses and the prophets , christ and the apostles have said to convince us : and we have still , through the merciful providence of god , means to assist us in it , and time and opportunity for the performance of it . but the time is coming , and will most certainly come , when , if we have not before believed and repented , neither moses nor the prophets , neither abraham , nor one greater than abraham , will or can relieve us . and therefore how necessary is it for all now to hearken to moses and the prophets , to christ and the apostles , in this their day ? for if they now hear them not , they can no more hereafter be saved , than they would have been persuaded though one had rose from the dead . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e irenaeus , origen , cyril , hierom , think it not a parable . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . mat. . . matt. . . acts . . * vos quaeritis an immortales animae sint . ego jam sciam . † si quid explorasset , circumiturum amicos , & indicaturum , qui esset animarum status . de tranquil . c. . * plus ut puto haberet fidei apud to , si quis revixisset , & in morte nihil mali esse narraret expertus . epist. . de rep. l. . exod. . , , . deut. . . psal. . . . . . . nehem. . . mat. . . mark . . cor. . . acts . . mark . . numb . . . acts . . numb . . . pet. . . matt. . . origen , l. . cor. . . acts . . john . . a vindication of a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation on account of the oaths from the exceptions made against it in a tract called, a brief answer to a late discourse, &c. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation on account of the oaths from the exceptions made against it in a tract called, a brief answer to a late discourse, &c. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng stillingfleet, edward, - . -- discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation. grascome, samuel, - ? -- brief answer to a late discourse. dissenters, religious -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation , on account of the oaths , from the exceptions made against it in a tract called , a brief answer to a late discourse , &c. london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard . mdcxci . to the reader the last year there was publish'd a discourse concerning the unreasonableness of a new separation on account of the present oaths ; in which the learned author endeavoured to prevent that schism which we were then threatned with , and hath since broke out amongst us ; begun by some few that were dissatisfied about the oaths , and upon that account quitted their preferments ; but improved by others ( tho thanks be to god , with little success ) who are disaffected to the present government , and take all ways to render it uneasie . to the foresaid book at last two answers have been given ; the one called , a brief answer ; the other , an enquiry into the remarkable instances of history , used by the author of the unreasonableness , &c. the former with much virulence , and more heat than judgment , directly vindicates the new separation ; in the examination of which i have concerned my self ; and no further with the second , than the reasons there insinuated and touched upon , fall in with the former . as for what concerns the enquiry into the instances , and their vindication against the cavils of that pretender to english history ( for so i call him , because i find him to be a downright plagiary from dr. brady's writings ) , i shall leave it to the author , who himself in a short time will give the world an account of that matter . a vindication of a discourse concerning the vnreasonableness of a new separation , &c. the author of the brief answer , toward the close of his paper , thus professeth of himself : for many reasons , i am unwilling to judge severely of my brethren , who have sworn ; nor hath any man been more forbearing . if this champion of the cause he appears in , had entred the lists , and begun his pamphlet with such a declaration , there might have been some favourable construction put upon it ; tho' in the process of his discourse he had been transported beyond his first intention , by a zeal for his own cause on one hand , and the force of his adversary's arguments on the other : but to conclude with an i am unwilling to judge severely , after he had spared neither the order he professeth himself to be of ; nor his adversary , whose character , dignity , and learning , he sometimes is pleased to acknowledge , is a sort of refining , not subtil enough to take with the present age , and a practice too gross to put upon an impartial and considerate reader . for , as for those he once in an over-flowing sit of charity calls brethren , they are in his dialect a pack of jolly swearers , pag. . such as betray their consciences for large preferments , p. . and he might have added , when his hand was in , that damn their souls by the perjury he charges them with , p. . as for his adversary , he is one , according to the character this author frames for him , that is old-excellent at mustering up the ill presidents , p. . that hath despised all sorts of persons , as ignorant and silly in respect of himself , p. . a man who lays aside all his divinity , for a little bad law , and worse history , p. . and , to clinch the whole , thus sets him off ; a learned doctor , nay ( god be merciful to us ! ) a bishop , so stiled , of our church . this , in his language , is no severe judgment ; and after all ( if you will believe him ) no man hath been more forbearing than himself . so much shall serve for a proof of his candour and sincerity : let us now try how this huffing philistine , who thus struts over his adversary , behaves himself in close fighting . the whole of what he saith , may be reduced to these three heads . i. church communion and schism . ii. publick good. iii. obedience to authority . §. . of church-communion and schism . the author of the discourse concerning the vnreasonableness , &c. professeth , that he was not a little surprized , . that these new separatists , that express'd so great a sense of schism in others , should be so ready to fall into it themselves . . that they do it upon the account of scruples , when the difference is only about the resolution of a case of conscience , wherein wise and good men may easily differ . to the first , the author of the brief answer replies , they do , not fall , but are forced into it : which i shall consider in its due place , when he undertakes to prove it . to the second , he gives a spiteful return : but is then a case of conscience really so trivial a thing ? and after he hath gravely prov'd the contrary for a column together , concludes with a special piece of admonition to his adversary ; therefore , whatsoever our author may think , i shall desire him henceforward to speak more reverendly of a case of conscience , &c. but here this author has over-run the point ; for the word only , is not ( as he perversly will have it ) as if a case of conscience was not a matter of consequence ; but that the taking or not taking the oaths , is only a case of conscience , not matter of doctrine . for the dispute is not , whether an oath be lawful or not ? but , whether this present oath be so ? which being a matter of a civil nature , must depend upon the knowledge of the constitution and laws of this realm for its resolution ; which wise and good men may easily differ in , as the author of the discourse observes : and so there can be no reason for those that scruple the oath , to separate from the communion of those that take it . this premised , that learned author seasonably prevents and removes the pleas that may be made for such a separation . as , . when any thing unlawful is made a condition of communion . . that it 's unlawful to join with those that have taken the oaths ; and so have done , and continue to do and defend what they , that refuse communion , account unlawful . as to the first , the discourse shews , that the terms of our communion are not altered ; and that taking the oaths is made no condition of communion with us . as to the second , it observes , that this is the scruple about mix'd communion , which hath been so long exploded among us . upon the first , our author coldly replies , i could have told him forty things which they are not ; and if he should be out in that one he mentions , it would be very unlucky ; and that he is so , i shall endeavour in its proper place to prove . but in the mean time , if amongst the forty things the oaths are not , they shall not be found to be the condition of communion , they can be no reason for breaking off from that communion . and i grant , he may sooner tell of forty things the oaths are not , than prove that they are made the conditions of communion ; or that they may separate from the church for such things as are not made conditions of communion with it . as to the second , the case of mix'd communion , our author is very careful to pass it over in silence : and instead of that , borrows a sorry invective from some of his friends of the church of rome , i could tell him of a man , &c. and in the answer to their books , he will find the reply . but he then takes a step back to make a reflection upon what he thinks may better suit his purpose : for his adversary having put a case , suppose those who take the oaths to blame ; if they act according to their consciences therein , what ground is there for a separation from them for so doing , unless it be lawful to separate from all such who follow the dictates of an erroneous conscience ? and so there will be no end of separation , &c. our author smartly returns upon him ; at this rate ; there will be no end of tristing and sophistry ; for if i am bound to separate from some erroneous conscience , why must it needs be lawful to separate from all ? &c. and here , according to his wont when he has none to oppose him , he states and argues the point out and out . but this is another of his blunders . the plain case is this : his adversary having just before shew'd the taking of the oaths to be no condition of communion , adds , and if they are not , what colour can there be for breaking communion on the account of the oaths ? and then follows , suppose they are to blame , &c. that is , if the oaths are not made a condition of communion , what imaginable cause can there be assign'd for a separation , unless it be because they are to blame , by acting according to an erroneous conscience ? and then this will be endless . these general reflections past , the author of the vnreasonableness , &c. takes the main point into consideration ; viz. whether there be any reason for those scruples about the oaths ? for if there be not , it will be granted , that there can be no obligation for a separation on the account of them . but it seems that author was under a great mistake in his taking it for granted ; for our author stands up in opposition to it , and saith , he hath not fairly and truly stated the case : for the question is not nakedly and simply , whether the oaths may or may not be lawfully taken ? but , whether oaths imposed under such unjust and merciless penalties , and attended with such fatal consequences , will not warrant the non-swearers in a separation from such as do ? but this is another of his mistakes ; for nothing can be more plain than that , if there be no reason for the scruples about the oaths , there can be no reason for their sake to separate from those that take them : and therefore that author took the most proper course that could be , to prove the unlawfulness of the present separation , from the lawfulness of taking them . for if the oaths are lawful , the penalties , how unjust and rigorous soever , cannot make them unlawful : and the consequences cannot be fatal , if those that are now non-swearers , are convinc'd of the lawfulness of the oaths , and so take them . this brings me to consider his arguments in justification of the present separation ; and what he hath said confusedly , i think may be commodiously rank'd under these three heads . . that the penalties to be inflicted upon them , want nothing of being a condition of communion to them , quatenus ministers , p. , . . that their authority is from christ , and so no secular power can vnbishop and vnpriest , or disable them , p. , . . that they are bound to obey their bishops and metropolitan , p. , . arg. . the oaths being imposed under such unjust and merciless penalties , and attended with such fatal consequences , will warrant separation ; and want nothing of being made a condition of communion , &c. now to speak in his way , there may be forty things we know , which may have the same fatal consequence ; for so it would be if the clergy should not subscribe to the service-book and articles ; if they should not declare their assent and consent to all and every thing contained in the book of common-prayer . and so it would have been in former kings reigns , if the oaths of allegiance and supremacy had not been taken . so that there always was upon this author's argument , a sufficient warrant for non swearers and non-conformers , to separate from those that did swear and did conform . for papist and dissenter will join with him in the clamour , and each for themselves , as he for his own , will complain of unjust and merciless penalties . penalties there are , and they are great , but they are neither unjust or merciless , if the government is not otherwise to be secured . but it doth not seem that they are unjust and merciless , by his way of representing them ; for as if he did not believe it himself , he is fain to dress them up with all the sanbenito's of an inquisition , and the most extravagant aggravations ; for thus he opens the case : — after six months warning , and frequent rabling , if we take not the oaths , we are silenced for six months more ; so then ( mark the consequence ) if the oaths be not taken , all the churches in england must be shut up . i know not any considerable difference betwixt this and a popish interdict ; neither matters it much , whether we lie at the mercy of the pope or a parliament , whether god shall be worshipped in the land , or not , &c. so that it seems by their not taking the oaths , and their deprivation upon it , we have neither god nor religion among us , ( in the phrase of their new liturgy ; ) or in the phrase used upon the like occasion by others , the ark of god is removed , and the glory departed from our israel . but though we pity other mens miseries , and could wish that our brethren were as we are ; yet webless god , that whereas by the pope's interdict every church was required to be shut in the land , ( as it was for above six years in the reign of king john ) all ours are open : and though the few that refuse the oaths , and now remain deprived , are too many , yet that these neither bear the proportion of the to the of the clergy that were outed in q. mary's time , ( as m. parker computes it ) nor of the to the , as it 's said was in the reign of king charlet ii. but to return to the point , what , saith he , doth this want of being make a condition of communion to us , quatenus ministers ? to this i answer , . suppose it to want nothing of being made a condition of communion to them , as ministers , yet what is this to the people , of whom , as church-members , that is not required ? this is a tender point , and what he durst not touch upon : for grant that they had cause to separate , yet what would they do without a people ? and how would the people justifie their separation with the ministers , upon whom no such obligations were laid , as on the ministers ? so that tho the non-swearing clergy might lawfully separate without sin from our communion , yet they must separate alone ; while none of the people could join with them in their separation , without being guilty of a notorious schism . for what reason would there have been for the ministers separation , if the oaths had not been required of them ? and what reason can there be then for the peoples non communion , who ( as church members ) stand as free from such obligations , as if no such revolution as the present had hapned , and no such oaths had been at all imposed . . though there be this obligation laid upon ministers , yet what is this political security required of them , to their communion with the church ? may persons when grieved by the secular power , and deprived of their livelihoods by an act of parliament , revenge it upon the church ? and will they interdict themselves its communion , and break it in pieces , because they are thus injured , as they suppose ? . if they are not suffered to officiate as ministers , yet they may still join in the same communion as lay-men . to this he answers , if no lay-power can make or unmake a bishop , priest , or deacon , then the charge of our ministry will still lye upon us , notwithstanding this depriving act , and necessity will lye upon us to discharge it at our peril . this leads me to his second argument ; but before i proceed to it , let him understand , that he proceeds upon a gross mistake , by confounding deprivation with degradation . for what act is there that doth ( in his phrase , p. . ) vn bishop and vn-priest men ? all that the civil power here pretends to , is to secure it felf against the practices of dissatisfied persons , and to try who are such , it requires an oath of allegiance to be taken to their majesties , by all in office , ecclesiastical , civil or military : and in case of refusal , by deprivation to disable such , as far as they can , from endangering the publick safety . but if the clergy so deprived think fit to take the oaths , they are in statu quo , without any new consecration or re-ordination . having cleared the argument of this mistake , i shall now consider it . arg. . a clergy man's authority is from god ; and notwithstanding any civil act to the contrary , he is bound to take care of his office , though the most bitter persecutions attend him for so doing . and therefore if they will warrant a civil act to disable us from doing our duties , they must excuse us , if we have these dreadful apprehensions of the account we have to give ; that we endeavour to do it as we can at our hazard , when we are not suffered to do it in communion with them , p. . the sum of his argument is , that being they receive their authority from god , no civil power can disable them from the exercise of their duty : and if it doth , they are bound to quit the communion of the church , where so disabled . the force of which may be resolved into these three questions . q. . whether a bishop duly consecrated , or a minister duly ordain'd , may not be lawfully suspended and deprived from the execution of his office , by the secular power , where there is sufficient reason for it ? . whether a refusal to give security to the secular power for a peaceable behaviour , and obedience , by oath , may not be a sufficient reason ? . whether if so deprived , he is notwithstanding bound as a private member to join in communion with that church whereof he was a minister before ; if nothing unlawful be required of him in that communion ; and not to separate from it ? q. . as to the first , whether a bishop duly consecrated , &c. our author is not very clear ; but if he is to be understood , he takes away all such power from the secular authority . so p. . our metropolitan , and several other bishops , are now actually by a secular act deprived . but are they deprived by any canons , or canonical censures of the church ? and he makes a sutable distinction betwixt what he allows to the one , and not to the other : viz. i shall easily grant , that the secular power hath often seized estates , and imprisoned and banished their persons : but still they were accounted bishops of those churches , and ceased not to discharge their duty , &c. and p. . our author will think to tell us tales , how emperours have put our bishops , &c. but it is one thing to act in pursuance of the canons of the church , and another thing to act against them , &c. now , in answer to all this ramble , i shall transcribe what the judicious mason reply'd to two or three objections of this kind . [ de minist . angl. l. . c. . ] object . is not the deposition of a bishop a spiritual censure ? how therefore can it be ascribed to secular powers ? answ. the secular powers depose a bishop , not by way of degradation , but exclusion . they exclude him , not from his orders , as if he had them not ; but from the gift , that he may not exercise it . and not from that neither absolutely , but after a sort ; that he should not exercise his office , as to their subjects , nor in their dominions . which the holiest princes in the best and primitive times have often exercised . object . can a prince take away what he cannot give ? answ. he cannot give , and so cannot take away the intrinsick power of the word and sacraments , proceeding from the keys of ordination : but the extrinsical power and license of exercising the ministerial office , received by ordination , he can in his dominions confer , and again take away , if the case so requires . i leave the rest about an act of parliament to this author's perusal , at his leisure . q. . whether it may not be lawful for the secular power to deprive persons in orders , for crimes committed against the state , and particularly , upon refusal to give security to the government for their peaceable behaviour , and allegiance by oath ? the general , our author expresly denies ; and the particular case he will not allow , because it 's the reason why the general was maintained . so he saith , p. . neither the clergy nor people [ in the primitive times ] renounced their bishops , unless they were guilty of such crimes for which the censures of the church did depose them , or the canons ipso facto deprive them . but where 's the heresie ? where are any of all these crimes , for which these our bishops merit deposition ; or what just censure of the church hath pass'd upon them ? now i answer with mason , where was the act of the church , in the deposition of abiathar ? and where was the ecclesiastical crime he was charg'd with ? and as to the oaths , i shall answer again in the words of the same celebrated author : not without cause was there a law made , that all magistrates , whether sacerdotal or civil , should take an oath , that the queen [ eliz. ] was supreme governour , and under the pain of deposition : which oath since the popish bishops refused , they were deprived of their honours and churches : nor undeservedly , because they were presumed to be for the pope's supremacy . and the same parity of reason may hold for administring and taking the oath of allegiance to king william and queen mary , since they that refuse to take that , may be presumed to think their allegiance due to another . and that author adds further , when the said oath was tendred to those bishops by illustrious persons deputed thereunto , and they would not be perswaded to take it , episcopatibus suis tandem aliquando juxta legem parliamentariam sunt abdicati ; which i leave to our author to english. i think this case is at an end . q. . whether if a person be lawfully deprived of the exercise of his ministry , he is notwithstanding bound , as a private member , to communicate in that church , &c. this our author denies , for he would have it , that they are bound to continue in the exercise of their office , to do it as they can , when not suffered to do it in communion with them . not suffered , he means without taking the oaths . the sum is , that if they are not permitted to exercise their ministerial function , they think themselves obliged to set up conventicles , and maintain a separate communion . now this may make two questions . whether ordination obliges such an one to the actual exercise of his office , when forbid by the magistrate ? and then whether for the exercise of his ministry , he may and is obliged to set up and maintain a separate communion ? . whether ordination obliges such an one , &c. to this i answer : if a magistrate may lawfully deprive , ( as i have shewed he may ) then the clerk may be lawfully deprived . and if lawfully deprived , he is bound to submit to such deprivation . and that in obedience to the magistrate , whom we are taught ( as he knows ) not to resist . but to officiate notwithstanding such a prohibition , is in our way to take up arms against him ; and in a lower to do what the pope doth in a higher station , and to controul his jurisdiction . our author undertakes to tell us what was done in the primitive times : but if he had consulted them , he would have found , that when by the imperial power eustathius was put out of antioch , athanasius out of alexandria , and paulus out of constantinople , though the orthodox complained of the injustice of it , as done upon the malicious suggestion of the arians , yet they never questioned the emperour's power . but supposing that he is not bound in this case ; and that he may as lawfully , and is as much obliged to exercise his office as ever : yet what is this to a separation ? for is he so obliged , that rather than not officiate , he may and ought to break off from communion with the church ? it 's agreed to by all , that we are to continue in the communion of the church we are of as long as we can ; and that a separation from it is like a divorce ; which is the last extremity , and which nothing can justify but when the terms of communion are unlawful . but one deprived of his ministry may hold communion with the church if he will , since there is no change in the terms , and the church is as much the same when he is not a minister in it as when he is : and his officiating as a minister , being not a term of communion , the communion with it is the same when he is not a minister as when he is . this was true doctrine against the dissenters when time was ; he was a schismatick who gave this as a reason for his separation . and if they now proceed on the same principles with the dissenters , and take up their arguments , there is as much reason to charge them with schism , as they had to charge the dissenters . arg. . he argues from the subjection the people and clergy owe to the bishops , and the bishops owe to their metropolitan : so that if bishops or metropolitan be deprived , and others substituted in their room , it will unavoidably necessitate a schism . our author that undertakes to give us an account of the sense , judgment , and practice of the primitive times , would have done well to have given us a touch or two of his skill that way , by some credible authorities ; and particularly of such a subjection of the bishop to the metropolitan , to the confutation of some of st. cyprian's epistles : and that bishops after the proceedings against them by imperial authority , were still accounted bishops of those churches they before were bishops of , — and neither clergy nor people renounced them , unless they were guilty of such crimes , for which the censures of the church did depose them , or the canons ipso facto deprive them , as heresie : or that there is no way to free us from the subjection and obedience we owe to them , but either death , deprivation , or their own renuntiation ; which last , he saith , was never accounted commendable in a bishop . for the christian world has hitherto been persuaded , that in sitting cases both bishops might be deprived , and both clergy and people discharged of any obedience owing to them , by a secular authority : ( as has been shewed ) but if what this author suggests , be a just enumeration of all the cases for which bishops may be deprived ; then there is no case in reserve for the secular power to forbid or deprive ; and if by the impetuosity of that power ( as his words are ) a bishop was set over a church or diocess , in opposition to one there canonically placed already , it would always in course produce a schism . this he saith was , and this is the case , for our metropolitan and several other bishops are now actually by a secular act deprived , and because by a secular act deprived , and for no crimes for which the censures of the church depose them ; they are bishops still , and they are bound to take care of their churches , and their churches to live in subjection to them . this subject cannot be thorowly handled without passing some limits i desire not to transgress , though the way that he has handled it in , and the small deference he gives to , nay the contempt he casts upon the secular power , concerning it self and interposing in the case , deserves a severe rebuke ; and which is so far from doing any real service to the right reverend persons he takes upon him to defend , that it would be to their disadvantage , had not the impertinency of the person plainly discovered , there are none of them in his counsel . but to return to our author , suppose the case be as he represents it , how comes this to necessitate a schism with us ? is it because these venerable persons stand deprived ? then it is not because of any thing unlawful in the church , but because of the bishops that suffer by the state , a schism may warrantably be made by the clergy and people . is it not for that reason alone , but because others are to be substituted in their room ; then why is there a separation before it ; and his argument proceeds upon this , that they are bound to join and go along with the bishops . why must this necessitate a schism to all ? for are those diocesses and clergy , who have their bishops , equally involved in the same case with those that are deprived of theirs ? or why must it necessitate a schism , when the metropolitan and bishops deprived , declare their aversion to any such separation ? this argument will serve either way ; for if the clergy and people are obliged to submit to and obey their bishops , and the bishops their metropolitans ; then those that are of the province and diocesses , where their metropolitan and bishops have taken the oaths , are obliged to adhere to their metropolitan and bishops , and may as warrantably and as much ought to separate from these that set themselves against authority , and refuse to swear allegiance to it , as they on the other side think they may and ought to separate from those that do comply with it . again if they are obliged thus to go with their metropolitan and bishops ; then if the metropolitan and bishops , notwithstanding their deprivation , continue in the communion of the church , then they are obliged also to continue ; and if they separate when those don't separate , they must by his argument become schismaticks . lastly , if they separate because they proceed ( as he saith ) according to the sense , judgment , and practice of the ancient church : i would fain understand , when the christians ever refused communion with a church , because of matters of state ; or divided from others , because those they divide from thought it lawful and their duty to swear allegiance to the sovereign power ? in fine , a schism it must be , and a schism they are resolved to make , let there be a reason or none for it : and ( as truth will out ) so he hath at last revealed the mystery , and after all the pretences they make , that it 's for not deserting god his church and their duty ; there seems to be something else at the bottom , and whether it be so or no , i leave the reader to judg by what he tells us we must expect , and why : viz. though they may go clothed in purple and fine linen ( as some others would have done , or thought to have done , had the happy days of the last reign continued ) and fare sumptuously every day , whilst care is taken that we may be starved ; yet they must expect to be pelted , and then men will speak and write their minds freely . for in vain do you imagine , that when men have nothing to lose , they have any thing to fear . no sirs , if nothing else will do it , we will humble you , and throw such a fioe into your church by the schism we will make ; that you may be sensible you have provoked men of spirit , and that if we cannot have purple and fine linnen , and sumptuous fare with you , will make you as miserable as our selves . look you to it , for betwixt dissenter and dissenter , we will grind you to death , and make you rue that ever we left your church ; or that the government hath made us thus uneasy under it . this i take to be but a just comment on this bold text of his : but let him and those of his mind cherish this malignant humour . i am confident no wise or good man but will think those that are of this kidney had better be out of the church than in it : they are such as there was no great reason to oblige , when in our communion , nor to fear ( threaten as they will ) when out of it . but as for those whom by their frantick zeal and fair pretences they delude , we ought to pity and to pray for them , and with meekness to shew them their error . whether our author hath stated the case righly , i shall , with him , leave to indifferent persons to judg : but if he hath not ( as i think has been sufficiently proved ) then , to use his words , they may wash their hands with pilate , but they cannot wipe of the crime of schism , they are by this new separation justly charged with . §. ii. of the publick good. but now he opens a new scene . before he considered the case with respect to the church , but now he comes to consider it with respect to the state. his design before was to vindicate themselves , if he could , from a schism , and to charge it upon us : but now his design is to expose the arguments for the oaths , and to make those that take them guilty of perjury . in order to which , he thus states the case for his adversary ; the whole stress of his discourse , saith he , is founded on this single point . that the consideration of the publick good , doth dissolve the obligation of an oath to a sovereign prince , rightfully claiming . for this he must mean , if he will speak to the purpose . in opposition to this , he saith , that no pretence of publick good whatsoever can warrant us to destroy a lawful king , or take off the obligations of an oath , whereby we have bound our selves in all things lawful and honest to obey him . and he immediately adds , the contrary our r. author undertakes to prove ; which i cannot reflect upon without grief ; because it seems to me a task , which would much better become a committee-man , or sequestrator , than a divine of the church of england . and certainly so it would , if the author of the discourse had undertaken to prove what he here charges him with , viz. that the publick good will warrant us to destroy a lawful king , &c. but all the while this man cannot believe himself , and therefore he returns to the consideration of the proposition concerning the dissolving of an oath for the sake of the publick good : or as the discourse words it , p. . the publick good is the true and just measure of the obligation in publick oaths . against which he saith , if we should grant that he had proved it in thesi , yet he has no where so much as offered to prove it in hypothesi , and apply it to our particular case . surely our author never read the book he pretends to answer , or if he did , he must have a bad memory , or a very bad conscience : for the discourse thus proceeds upon it , p. . i shall enquire into two things . . the nature and measure and obligation of political oaths in general . . the difficulties which relate to our oaths in particular ; upon the last of which he spends two thirds of the book . and now let us see what our author has to offer in confutation of what is rightly called the single point , in the discourse , about the obligation of political oaths , and the influence the consideration of the publick good has in them . i shall try , in his phrase , to bring his rambling arguments into some order ; and what he has to say is , . that the publick good is impracticable and liable to be abused . . who shall be the judg ? . what is the publick good ? i hope he will give me leave to begin with the last , if not for the sake of reason and true order , yet for the quaint expression of his friend , that publick or common good is a common notion , and signifies nothing unless it be stated and explained , inquiry , p. . . what is this publick good ? our author enters upon this point in a fit of quixotism ; i desire to know of our author where this divine beauty dwells , whom all our knights errants run mad for , and fill the world with blood and slaughter ? and he answers for him in a very metaphysical strain ; she is generally made a delicate fine thing in the abstract , a separate invisible being , distinguish'd from all personal interest and benefit . now with his good leave , i desire to know of him , where these platonick gentlemen live , that doat thus upon ideas and abstracts , and run mad for such a separate and invisible being , which they call publick good ; that is , in his phrase , good for no body . for i am apt to fancy no body will be found to be for that any more than himself . but let 's see whether he that keeps out of this mad crew , ( as he calls it ) and that is willing to put in for a share in it , comes off with any better success ; and whether after all the knowledg he pretends to have of this divine beauty , he can better describe it ? publick good , saith he , is a personal good , and that which makes for the welfare of every one in the community ; and which every man hath or ought to have a share in . or if you would have it in the same quixotian strain , she is a most sweet-natur'd creature , that doth good to all , &c. to do him right , as to the notion he is not alone ; for the same way goes the inquirer , p. . now i very much question this their notion of publick good. i grant that every particular person hath his share and right in the publick . but , . that is not as a particular person , but as a member of the publick . and he actually shares in it , when his particular good and the good of the whole , or the general good , meet together : but if they are separated , and become inconsistent , it then becomes a personal and private good. . publick good is so far from comprehending in it the good of every individual , or of every party of men , that the particular good of persons , parties and corporations is often destroyed for the good of the publick ; and they are often undone for the preservation and benefit of the community : for as the inquiry ( though in contradiction to himself in the sentence just before ) saith , if it be such a good ( or rather such an evil ) as is only for the benefit of a party , and , in respect of the whole , of the least or a small number , [ and much more of a particular person ] 't is impossible it should be a publick good. so that if personal good and publick good may be and often are inconsistent , the publick good is not a personal good. . publick good , that makes for the welfare of every one in the community , is a divine beauty indeed , but it 's a delicate fine thing in the abstract , an invisible being , not to be met with in this lower world. and when we speak of it as it is , it 's in the discourser's . language , a general good only . and therefore after all , i shall make bold to conclude in that author's words , [ discourse p. . ] the right of a person is not to be taken as distinct from the publick good. for if it be inconsistent with it , there is no ground to set up a personal interest against a publick good. . he argues against publick good 's being the measure of the obligation of publick oaths ; because it 's impracticable and very liable to be abused . thus our author ; how specious soever any proposition may seem in the theory ; yet , it ought not to be esteemed right or found , if it be impracticable , without filling the world with perpetual troubles and confusions , p. . and so he runs on for several columns together in a rant against the mischiefs this pretence has ushered into the world , p. . the sum of all which is , that publick good doth not take off the obligation of publick oaths , or make it lawful to take new , because this doctrine is impracticable ; and it 's impracticable , because it 's very liable to be abused . now besides the inconsequence of this , this is a way of arguing that may serve against any thing ; and if we put publick justice , or laws , or religion , or reformation , into the place of publick good , it will hold in any of them as well as the other . as for example , the doctrine of reforming the church [ how corrupt soever ] is very liable to be abused ; for the greatest part of mankind being wicked and credulous against their governours , under this pretence a sort of knaves , with active fools , may at any time cry up a reformation , and overturn any establishment , &c. but he may say , it 's not the publick good that doth this mischief , and makes it impracticable , but the pretence of it . but how shall we know when it really is so , and when so in pretence ? our author is silent in the case , but the inquirer has an answer ready ; nothing can be a publick good to any nation , where the exercise and practice of it is not warranted by the law , custom , and constitution of that nation , p. , & . and with him agrees the author of the discourse , p. . ( excepting in the nothing can ) the laws , rights and customs , are the standard of the publick good of a country . but then these two differ about the constitution , and that is not a controversy here to be entred into . the use i make of it is , that the publick good is still the measure of the obligation of political oaths , as is at last acknowledged even by the inquirer . but yet , if after all i should deny the inquirer's proposition , that nothing can be a publick good , but &c. and should say , that the publick good is above all law and custom , i conceive i should not mistake . for what made custom , law and constitution , but the publick good ? and if a case should happen , which never happened before , in which the publick good is so far concerned , that without some extraordinary course be presently taken , the nation and government will be destroyed , i do not question , but this case will as much require the care of the nation , as any case now doth require the making of a law , for which there was no law before : or as it 's requisite , that there should be a chancery to adjust those matters , to which the letter of the law doth not reach . for there are such things as necessity , equity , and reason of state , which are law all over the world ; and that are as much the standard by which all laws and customs , in extraordinary cases and events , are to be adjusted ; as law and custom are the standard by which all ordinary cases are to be determined , and which are the settled measures of the obedience we owe to governours . such a case was that in poland , when henry of valois in haste and with secrecy left the throne vacant . a case extraordinary , and which they had no law to govern them in , but they had that which is a law to law ; necessity and the preservation of the nation , that soon taught them what was to be done . this brings me to consider . . who shall be the judg ? that is , either who shall judg when the publick good is invaded , and when the laws , customs and constitutions , are violated ? or , who shall judg what 's fit to de done in such a case , by way of remedy ? as to the former , the case before us is supposed to be notorious , and what has an evident tendency to the destruction of the government : of which some things are of that nature , as they are destructive of government where-ever they are , as the desertion of a kingdom ; or the natural incapacity of the governour by lunacy , &c. other things there are which are destructive of the national constitution , and such amongst us has been thought to be an absolute and universal power of dispensing with the laws . now , when the cases are notorious , this author might as well have asked , who shall be the judg , whether the banks are broken down in an inundation ; or whether there is a breach in the walls when they see the enemy press through it ; or the city in the power of the enemy , when they see the fortifications of it dismantled ? but who shall be the judg , that is again , by way of remedy ? here our author thus puts the case , either that must be the supream governour , or some other man or body of men , or the mobile . the former he chuses for himself ; the second he argues out of the way ; and the third he gives to his adversary : for thus he concludes ; after all the matter comes to the mobile , and every man must judg for himself : — and have not we extreamly mended the matter , by putting it into the power of every subject to depose his king ; or at least to endeavour it to his utmost , in case he apprehends it will be for the publick good ? p. . as to the first of these the supreme governour , the case we are upon immediately concerns himself ; and then either there must be no judg , or he cannot be the judg. for suppose the controversy be about the succession and title ; suppose about an incapacity , a desertion and vacancy ; suppose it be about the violation and destruction of the government and constitution designed by him ; or the nature and obligation of the oaths to him . this is not only to make him a personal judg in his own case , ( which the law permits net in suits of law betwixt prince and subject ) but to set him above himself , and in our author's phrase , to set a supream above a supream . and then the question should be put , not who is the judg , but whether there is any judg ? but i readily grant that the supream governour has no supream , and whatever has been done in a case extraordinary , doth no more make a convention or parliament judges , ( properly so called ) than that the parliament is equal to the king , because he can make no laws without them . as for the case of the people , our author writes as if he had never read his adversary , who after he had resolved the point into the common good , saith , i do not hereby go about to set up the power of the people over kings , which is in effect to overthrow monarchy ; for then the whole soveraignty would lie in the people , and kings would be but their servants , p. . and therefore there is the third case remaining , which is that of a body of m●n ; and thus the question is put in the discourse : whether the law of our nation doth not bind us to allegiance to a king and queen in actual possession of the throne , by consent of the three estates of the realm : and whether such an oath may not lawfully be taken , notwithstanding any former oath , p. . this he undertakes to prove , p. . as that 's no other than the consent of the people , whose true representatives they are , as he shews . to this our author has nothing to say ; but the inquirer , that he may seem to say somewhat , took what served his turn , and left out the rest : ( to use his own words ) for this adversary having said , p. . if there be a rule , the general consent of the people joyned with the common good seems to have been that , which our ancestors pretended to : he presently runs out upon this in a vehement expostulation ; where or how can all the people meet ? as if the author he opposes thought of no less than the numbring of the people from dan to beersheba : or as if there was no way of taking the general consent but by an vniversal assembling . he that quoted what was just before and after , could not miss the explication there given ; the consent of the people that is the three estates of the realm , &c. p. . and elsewhere . i might think here of closing the discourse upon publick good , when he himself grows weary of it ; but to give an answer to what remains , it 's fit with him to return to it . the author of the discourse towards the beginning , treating of the nature and measure of the obligation of political oaths , shew'd . . that the obligation was not barely from the oath , but from somewhat antecedent to it , p. . . that the publick good is that antecedent , the main end chiefly concerned in the obligation ; and the obligation to magistrates is to be in subordination to that end . p. . . that an antecedent and superiour obligation voids that which is subsequent and inferiour , when they contradict each other . so that if an oath to the person is truly inconsistent with the welfare of the people , the obligation cannot continue . that this is so in other cases , he shews ; there being no relation of mankind one to another , but there is some good antecedent , which is the just measure of that obligation they stand in to each other . thus he describes it to be between parents and children . ( . ) on the childrens part to parents : insomuch that if a vow to god ( which is as solemn a thing as an oath ) hinders that good which children are bound to do to parents , it ceaseth to oblige , as our saviour declares . to this our author replies : his comparison of a vow and an oath is nothing to the purpose ; for whoever thought that either an oath or a vow bound a man contrary to his real duty ? the sin in such a case is in making them , not in breaking them , p. . i answer ; the instance is to the purpose ; for if the procuring and preserving the publick good be a duty ; and what a person hath vowed or sworn , be destructive of it ; then the oath cannot oblige , no more than a vow not to feed or maintain a parent , and the jurant is discharged of the obligation . and whereas he saith , the sin is in making them , &c. that is true where the matter is unlawful in it self ( as when the jews bound themselves to kill st. paul ) but the case may happen so , that it may be not only lawful , but a duty to break that vow or oath , which was lawful in its own nature ; or rather the obligation comes to cease ; because by change of circumstances or of the original reason of that oath , that which was lawful may become unlawful . thus it was in things sacred and dedicated to the service of god , and which could not be alienated from it without sacriledg , and yet it was lawful to apply them otherwise in case of necessity , as our saviour's case of the shew-bread proves . and so it may happen in the case before us , when that which was before for the publick good , and which it was lawful to swear to maintain , may afterwards come to be plainly destructive of it ; and so the same reason that there was for swearing to maintain it , may be for the setting it aside . the want of this consideration led this author into a mistake , when he saith , let our author speak out , and tell me , that taking an oath of allegiance to a lawful prince is contrary to my duty , and then , &c. for it might be lawful and his duty to take an oath to a lawful prince ; but it follows not that no case could ever happen , in which the obligation of such an oath ceases . it was lawful for jaddus the high-priest and the rest of the jews to swear allegiance to darius as long as he lived : and yet when alexander came with a powerful army against them , and darius was in no capacity of defending them , it was lawful , and , as they thought , their duty , for the preservation of their country and themselves , to go out to meet him , and to transfer their allegiance to him ; and certainly they thought themselves discharged from their former oath to the one , when they took it to the other . so true is that which the author of the discourse observes ; that the resolution of conscience in this case doth not depend upon the will and pleasure of the person to whom the former oath was made , but upon the grounds on which it was made , and from which it had its force to oblige : and if those cease , the obligation of the oath ceases together with them , p. . ( . ) it is so on the parents part to children , as the same author shews ; so that if parents , instead of regarding the good of their children , do openly design their ruin , none will say but that they are bound to take care of their own welfare , &c. to this our author replies : . i know not what a madman may do , but none will suppose that a parent in his right wits will do thus ; as it is both unnatural and unreasonable to think , that a king should contrive the destruction of his subjects , without whom he hath none to reign over or assist him . this i grant is unnatural , and unreasonable in it self , but not unreasonable to think ; for the world too often finds that the passions , and lusts , and interests of men make them do things unreasonable and unnatural . and our saviour tells us , how far the hatred persons have to the true religion may transport them , when the fathers shall betray and deliver their children to death . and if it is so on the part of a natural , it may be as well supposed on the part of a political parent . that he saith is unreasonable to suppose , because a king by the destruction of his subjects , leaves himself none to reign over , or assist him . but whoever was so mad as to mean this , when he puts the case of a prince's destroying his nation ; for then he must come to do it with his own hand , and his nation must in caligula's way have little more than one neck to serve his barbarity . but they thereby mean his design to destroy the government , and to destroy those that will not comply with , or oppose such a design : he choosing rather to have no subjects than what shall not be his slaves ; or in the modish way of a neighbouring prince , that will not be of the same religion with himself . . he saith , the author should have told us , that the children , in such a case , might have taken away all the father's subsistence , and done their utmost endeavour to starve him , or cut his throat ; and no doubt but this had been an excellent comment on the fifth commandment . but why should that author be obliged thus to have told us ? for suppose the father would alienate the estate from his children , which is entail'd upon them ; and designs to adopt a stranger into that relation , and substitute him in their place : suppose again , that a father has several tenants that hold of him by ancient tenures , and by which tenures , and performing the conditions belonging to them , their lands are as much their propriety , as the land of inheritance is their lord's ; and that he notwithstanding seeks to destroy their tenures , because they oppose him in his designs against his children , or in that absolute power over them which he aims at : suppose again , that rather than not compass his designs , he seeks the destruction of his children , and of the tenants that adhere to them for their own mutual preservation and security : is there no mean to be found , but either to let the father out , and starve his children , or that the children must take away all the father 's subsistance , and do their utmost to starve him ? no mean , but to let the father cut the throat of his children , or that the children must cut the throat of their father ? and may not a son withdraw from his parents immediate care , ( as the discourse saith ) and forsake his house , when he cannot stay there but upon the hard terms of being destroyed , or of resigning up the title of his inheritance to a supposititious heir ? or , may not the son take possession of his father's house , and the estate of inheritance , which the father abandoned , rather than he would oblige himself to continue the estate in his family , and suffer the tenants to hold their lands by any other tenure than that of during pleasure ? may he not , i say , then enter upon the estate , rather than suffer the house to fall , and the lands to be wasted , and the tenants undone for want of a supervisor and possessor ? and may he not keep the possession against his parent in his own , his families , and tenants right , when he comes with an armed force of rapperies to enslave his children and tenants , and exercise an absolute power over them , or else destroy them ? and may not all this be done , and the fifth commandment stand in its full force ? if not , we must burn our law-books , and take new measures from these gentlemen that despise and reproaeh the common good , as an engine fitted ( in his phrase ) to overturn any government ; and that whilst they pretend to plead for law , set up a meer arbitrary power . the third instance in the discourse of the relation of mankind one to another , is that of masters and servants , victors and captives ; in which the author proves there is a regard had to the benefit of those who are in subjection . here our author interposes ; i know not , saith he , to what purpose he so labours to prove that a natural equity or common right is due to subjects , yea even to slaves : for whoever thought , that being under government , metamorphos'd us into beasts , or worse . it 's the first time ( though there was reason enough for it before ) that this author confesses his ignorance ; and it 's pity he should be sent away uninformed . . it was necessary , because though being under government ( rightly so called ) doth not metamorphose us into beasts ; yet mere absolute power comes very near it . . it was to the purpose , because the author of the discourse had undertaken to prove , that there is no relation of mankind one to another , but there is some good antecedent , which is the just measure of that obligation they stand in to each other . thus it is , saith he , between parents and children , masters and servants . oh , but , saith our author , he should have proved , that because the subject has a common right , therefore he can receive no wrong ; that is , he should have proved non-sence and inconsistencies . or ( as he goes on ) if be do [ receive wrong ] or apprehend he shall , then he may cry out , the publick good , and raise rebellion , and overturn any government : that is , because he has received a private injury ( in which the publick is not concerned ) he may cry out the publick good : it 's well he before told us the publick good is a personal good , or else i should have fil'd this up for a new blunder . the th relation mentioned in the discourse is that between princes and their subjects : where the author proved , that the good of the whole is the just measure of the obligation they stand in to each other . . from what the strictest casuists have allowed under a state of vsurpation . . from the nature of political oaths , which are reciprocal . as to the first of these . . in the foregoing paragraph our author will needs have his adversary to have borrowed the worst of mr. hobbs ' s principles to patch up his discourse , though he confutes him . and here he will have him displeased with the casuists , though they agree with him in the main point , about publick good , as he there recites their opinion . it is not denied , saith he , by the strictest casuists in these matters , but that under a state of vsurpation , notwithstanding their oaths to a rightful prince , men are bound to do those things which tend to the publick safety , as well as their own . now what 's this but to prove ( as far as that author intended it for ) that the publick good is the measure of the obligation , because the strictest casuists in those matters do not deny , &c. but however our author will have it so that they have displeased him ; and he gives a very surprizing reason for it , for thus he goes on : in another paragraph he ( the author of the discourse ) discovers the reason of his displeasure to be this , that they have not allowed them to do every thing in a state of vsurpation , which they might do under their lawful sovereigns . if i had never read more than two pages of the discourse , i durst have adventured as much as our author would have laid , sometime since , that king william would never pass the boyn , that there is no such paragraph , and no such reason in the whole book : and i dare now vouch after i have read it , that there is no more any such paragraph , than that king william is still on the other side of the boyn ; or died of the wound he received there . but since the casuists will not be of his mind , that author will it seems be even with them ; for ( if our author be to be credited ) he roundly condems them all , for founding it on the presumptive consent of the absent prince : but it is his own mistake , for quite contrary , they found the presumptive consent of the absent prince upon the publick good. after all it seems by his own confession , that the casuists and his adversary agree , that under a state of vsurpation men are bound to do those things , which tend to the publick safety : but they disagree about the reason it 's founded upon : for saith the discourse , the casuists found it ( that is , the obligation men are under in that state , to do what 's for the publick safety ) upon a presumptive consent of the absent prince . but that 's his own mistabe , saith our author ; for quite contrary , they found the presumptive consent of the absent prince upon the publick good. what a penance have i to undergo , that must teach a man his a b c ; and that puts c for a , and b for c ; ( for it 's no better with him here ) . we are now not enquiring , upon what the consent of the absent prince is founded ; but upon what the casuists found their opinion of the obligation that lies on mankind to do what tends to the publick good under a usurpation . the former indeed the casuists found upon the publick good , but the latter they found upon the presumptive consent of the prince , as is evident from what he himself quotes out of bishop sanderson . the case then is that those casuists found their opinion of doing what tends to the publick safety under an usurpation , immediately on the absent prince's consent ; and remotely by him , and for his sake , on the publick good. but now the author of the discourse thinks this to be a mistake ; for , saith he , the true reason is , that men are in the first place bound to promote the publick good , and consequentially and with respect to it , to regard the will of their princes , who are appointed by god and nature for that end . and if such be rendred uncapable of doing it , yet the obligation on others remains . . the discourse proves , that the publick good is the true and just measure of the obligation of political oaths ; in that the oaths are reciprocal . whereas if only the good of the persons , to whom the oaths of allegiance are made , were to be our rule , there would be no mutual oaths . this that author proves from the word allegiance ( which originally signifies a contract ) and from glanvil and bracton , &c. now this was a noble subject for our author to have tried his skill upon , but as if he had the spirit of clinias upon him , he shuts his eyes , and runs backward from the naked . weapon as far as he can : at last he is to be found three pages behind , calling upon no less than two of the holy apostles to defend him , p. . for thus he saith , to secure the law on his side , he cites glanvil and bracton , but forgets what st. peter and st. paul said . let him take his share with the lawyers , i will venture my soul with the apostles . a good thought ! if the lawyers go one way and the apostles another . but i never read that st. paul and st. peter differed in this matter from glanvil and bracton ; and that those holy apostles ever determined against them , that political oaths were not reciprocal ; or that the publick good is not the true and just measure of the obligation of such oaths . however by this conceit , he has got rid of a troublesom task ; i need not , saith he , now answer the citation : but how his as and his so come to be a reason for it , i don't well understand . however i dare pass my word for his adversary ( who , he saith , has changed his divinity for a little bad law ) that he has so much divinity and law yet left , as ( no less , than our author ) never to be persuaded , that it was lawful upon any pretence whatsoever to rebel , or to countenance rebellion against a sovereign prince ; and i am as sure that it is still , as he is , that not long since it was both the doctrine of the church of england , and the law of the land : which brings me to the last point . §. iii. of obedience to authority . after our author had wearied himself ( as he professeth ) with discoursing of the publick good , and ruined the main point , that he might yet render it , as jerusalem , so uncapable of recovery , that not one stone should be left upon another that should not be thrown down ; he resolves to give a brief answer . ( to make good the title of his book ) to such other things in the discourse that may require it . some of which , as belonging to the subject of publick good , i have already considered . amongst these , he selects the answer that is returned in the discourse to the history of passiv obedience . and here i thought , if any where , i should have found him bold and forward to support the credit of that main pillar of their cause ; but as if he was sensible of his own weakness , he crys out abominably of the answer to it , shifts it off with a silly comparison ; and as if he had raised a spirit he could not conjure down ; runs back as far as he can , without running out of the book , to the case of vows ( which is before considered ) and then as one confounded , bounces forward again , and concludes , i do not remember any thing more in his discourse material , except a numerous heap of instances , and in the van comes the unfortunate vortigern ; which with a little wipe he sends , as that prince was , out of the way ; and then as if he had been inspired at montsorrel , takes a leap from p. , to p. . of the discourse : and there he meets with somewhat which was not material enough to be remembred : but it seems his adversary being so elevated about the determination of our saviour , of paying tribute to tiberius , that he in zeal cannot forbear to call the non-swearers perjured and apostates ; our author conceives he may without any reflection upon his own memory call him to an account for it ; if it were only for a notable remark he makes upon it , viz. some men surely are not only priviledged , but admired for speaking contradictions . i was thinking for some time , where this contradiction might be , and dunce as i was , began to look backward and forward for it , whereas i perceived at length it was that the discourse charged the non-swearers with perjury . but bating the contradiction , we know who has been sufficiently quit with him for it , in the like charge upon the jolly swearers . after i had found out this conceit , i was at a loss again to find out the paragraph where this contradiction was : and at length discovered it , but found withal our author true to himself ; who for ought i see , may ( in his own words ) be priviledged , but i doubt not admired , for his many blundering mistakes : of which this is one , for he might as well have said , and with as much credit to his own understanding , that his adversary called the non-swearers jews , as perjured and apostates . for indeed what is said in the discourse of perjured and apostates , is applied to that people , and only to them . the words are these : as to the dreadful charge of perjury and apostacy which some have made use of against those who hold it lawful to take the oaths — it would have had more appearance of reason , if the pharisees had urged it against our saviour's resolution of the case about tribute-money . after this manner : for , had not god by his own law setled the government amongst them ? &c. what can it be then less than perjury and apostacy to give any countenance to such an open violation of this law ? who would not pity this writer of controversy that cannot see into the connexion of an argument for ten lines backward or forward ? for what reason i will not determine . but now comes on a flourish of learning ; for by an unhappy parenthesis the discourse has of velleius paterculus about the senate , he understood there was , i will not say such an author in the world , but such a passage in that author ( for he was sensible he might trust his adversary in that matter ) and here he bears up to him , fights him with his own weapon . to be short , saith he , i think the testimony of velleius to be better than our author's , tho he so scornfully reject him ; as if his adversary had set his own say-so against that of velleius , whereas he had proved the c●ntrary , from suetonius , dio and tacitus ; and therefore might well say , whatever velleius paterculus pretends . we are at last drawing to a close , and therefore he resolves to give his adversary a parting blow or two . he boasts , saith he , what he had gained upon the account of the jews paying tribute , but it will impose upon none but fools and partizans , and i will give it no particular answer . merciful man ! because he misrepresents the case both of the jews and tiberius . but it would have been some satisfaction in this suspicious age to have given an instance or two ; or else there are a sort of troublesom inquirers , that will be apt to believe that the best , reason he had why he would not give a particular answer was , because he could not . as now it will be asked , wherein doth the discourse misrepresent the case of the jews ? was it that darius was any other than a de factó king over them ? or that they did not swear allegiance to him as long as he lived ? or , did they notwithstanding , not submit to alexander , and enter into his service , and transfer their allegiance to him ? where again doth the discourse misrepresent the case of tiberius ? had he any right to the empire ? or had he at first any other title than from the pretorian band and legions ? or , did not the senate and people swear to him at last , though he was in the throne before , and a notorious usurper of it ? but though our author lets his adversary go for once with his misrepresentations scot-free ; yet by the vertue of some few particulars he has in reserve , he questions not but to put him to the rout ; and then let him ( sorry man as he is , that when girding on his harness , boasts himself as he that putteth it off ) reckon his gains ; and they are these four . . that none should rule over the jews but one of their own brethren , was designed as a blessing , and their being given up to a foreign power , was a judgment , &c. what then ? therefore they might not lawfully transfer their allegiance from their own blood to a foreigner . if that be the consequence , what becomes of nehemiah who served as governour under artaxerxes ? what of jaddus and the jews of his time with their oath of fidelity to darius ? &c. if they did well , the question is , ( as it 's in the discourse ) on what right that oath is founded ? . he pleads , they were under a state of conquest . what follows , but that therefore their allegiance to their royal stem was so far at an end ; or they might lawfully transfer their allegiance to a foreigner ? what now becomes of succession ? . he urges , that the question to our saviour , was not concerning oaths but tribute , which he grants all casuists do allow , may be paid even to an vsurper . but he knows , what use and what gain too his adversary made of this ; the question is ( saith the discourse ) whether any act of subjection be lawful or not ? if it be lawful to testify it one way , why not another ! if in paying tribute , why not in solemn promising to pay it ? if in promising , why not in swearing , i.e. in calling god to witness that i do it ? thus far then we may go , we may swear to pay tribute ; but on what account ? is it not as a token of allegiance , i.e. as a duty owing on the account of protection ? &c. if this way of arguing will impose upon none but fools and partizans ; why doth not our author who is to be sure no partizan , shew that he is no fool by answering it , and preventing fools from being imposed upon by such a shew of reasoning as here seems to be ? . he saith , that at that time no man had jus potius , nor had there been any prior oaths taken in bar against tiberius ; so that though he calls him an vsurper , i know not where he will find one with a better title . . he saith no man had jus potius , a better right . surely the author turn'd over the page before , where he will find that agrippa posthumus was then living , one much nearer to augustus , and that seemed designed by him to succeed him . surely again there was a jus potius in the senate , from whom even augustus was willing to receive it ; and upon those rights , the whole was an invasion ; and which was as much as if it had been the right of a particular person . . no prior oaths . what thinks he of the oath of jaddus to darius , when yet he went over to alexander ? what thinks he of the obligation to the senate , as to the present case ? . he saith , i know not where he will find a better title : that is , than one who intruded himself into the throne without any pretence in the world , without the leave of senate or people . so that in all respects there was hardly a worse title in the universe . but for once i will adventure to set a better title before him , and that is of one , that when wrong'd by a neighbouring prince and relative , and by one resolved against giving him any satisfaction , to the securing that right which he had to the throne after his decease , and a quiet possession of it , took up arms to right himself ; upon whose approach the other left his throne and kingdom , which the injur'd person with the consent of the estates of the kingdom entered upon . now if allegiance was lawfully sworn to a tiberius , a man of as little right to the empire , as of little vertue : what is not then lawful and due to one that has such a right and title to it ? to conclude : if our b. saviour did allow tribute to be paid to tiberius , and there is so little difference between tribute and an oath ( as the discourse hath shewn ) our author might have saved his impudent slander against his adversary , ( which i will not repeat ) who , as if he was run mad with the sectaries he speaks of in solomon's phrase , casteth firebrands , arrows and death . toward the beginning our author saith of himself , i have taken a safer course in this matter to appear before the tribunal of heaven , than the jolly swearers , p. . but when i reflect upon his disingenuity and hard censures , &c. i thought surely he was then in earnest ( which his scornful title he gives his brethren there , seems not reconcileable to ) he forgot himself for ever afterward ; and litttle thought of the tribunal 〈◊〉 another world ; or that there were any amongst mankind to inmind ( 〈◊〉 knows the word ) or to call him to an account here for such gross prevarications . finis . a vindication of the history of the gunpowder-treason and of the proceedings and matters relating thereunto, from the exceptions which have been made against it, and more especially of late years by the author of the catholick apologie, and others : to which is added, a parallel betwixt that and the present popish plot. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of the history of the gunpowder-treason and of the proceedings and matters relating thereunto, from the exceptions which have been made against it, and more especially of late years by the author of the catholick apologie, and others : to which is added, a parallel betwixt that and the present popish plot. williams, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by j.d. for richard chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng williams, john, ?- . -- history of the gunpowder-treason. gunpowder plot, . popish plot, . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - simon charles sampled and proofread - simon charles text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of the history of the gunpowder treason . and of the proceedings and matters relating thereunto , from the exceptions which have been made against it , and more especially of late years by the author of the catholick apologie , and others . to which is added , a parallel betwixt that and the present popish plot. london , printed by j. d. for richard chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , . errata's in the history of the gunpowder-treason . page . . ult . for read . after p. , false paged . p. . l. . r. catesby . p. . l. . f. everard , r. gerard ; f. when , r. where . p. . l. . expunge that . in the vindication . page . lin . . read reserve . p. . marg. l. . r. . p. . marg. l. . r. . p. . marg. f. ibid. r. antilog . p. . p. . marg. dele l. ult . p. . marg. dele l. . p. . l. . r. wykes . p. . l. . r. conjurationis . p. . l. ult . f. yet r. that . marg. dele paper . p. . marg. f. ibid. r. proceeds . p. . marg. l. . r. , p. . l. . r. . to the reader . in compiling the history of the gunpowder-treason , published two years since , i had a particular respect to brevity and truth , that i might neither burthen nor abuse the reader . how far i attained the former , the book it self doth shew ; and that i might not mistake in the latter , i did with good heed and diligence consult not only the histories foreign and domestick , but also all other books which i could meet with , written pro and con upon that subject . but all this while i had neither seen nor heard of the large reply in vindication of the catholick apology , written by a person of as great wit as honour ; in which i afterwards found there was a particular discourse upon this argument . i must confess that the honourable author hath as well acquitted himself as could be expected in a case of this nature , and by the reviving and skilful disposing of what hath bin said by others , and starting many things not taken notice of , that i know of , before , hath put a pretty varnish upon the cause , and made it passable with inconsiderate persons . but if what is there said be warily view'd , i do not question , but it will appear to be founded rather upon conjecture , than solid history , and to have more of fancy than truth in it . but whether this be so or not , or whether what i have here said will make it evident or no , i must now leave to the judicious and such as will be concerned impartially to inquire into the merits of the cause . if it should be expected that i should have taken notice of some other late books of our adversaries that touch upon this subject , i have only this to say , that i have not willingly overlooked any ; and as for those that i have seen , i find little or nothing which is not the same with what is said in the foresaid reply , and that hath not for the most part bin borrowed from it . the history of the gunpowder-treason vindicated . the conspiracy of the gunpowder-treason , carried in its front , so much of unnatural cruelty , that with all their art the party could put no colour upon it : and therefore there hath been nothing wanting amongst them to vindicate themselves and their religion from being concerned in it . sometimes they will slander authority , and make the judges and council to conspire against them . sometimes the whole was the contrivance of a minister of state. sometimes the traitors were but very few , and they such as were young and rash , quick to resent a provocation , and easily inclined to revenge it . sometimes it was in those discontent , & not religion . and if any or all of these will serve to stop the mouths of their adversaries and protect themselves , they will boldly stand up in their own vindication ; and that they have reason to say all this , is what they do maintain . i shall therefore consider their several pleas , and do think that i shall take in all that they say , and shew it to be very weak and insufficient , if i make good , . that this was a plot of their own , and not contrived to their hands by their adversaries , . that more were concerned in it , than were at that time publickly known and accused . . that those that fled and suffered for it were really guilty . . that this conspiracy was purely upon the account of religion . . i shall add , that they never yet gave to the world any real and good satisfaction of their abhorrency of it . of what great use it will be , if they could prove the whole to be anothers device , i cannot well understand . for if it could be made as clear as the day that a minister of state drew the conspirators into the nooze , and had such as from time to time did give him intelligence how their affair stood , will it serve to clear their innocency , and make the plot on their part to be none ? was there all the while no evil inclination of their own to work upon , and no mischief intended by them ? were they drawn in without their consent ? or were they not drawn in at all , but the whole accusation a fiction , and it no better than a seeming plot , as one suggests ? if not , why is this so vigorously urged , and so much enlarged upon by our late apologists ? but yet how little shadow of proof there is for this , will appear if we consider how inconstantly these speak as to this matter . for if we will hearken to the man of years when he died ( who is for that reason presumed to be a person of some credit in the case by the honourable author above said ) he saith , fuit non levis suspitio , &c. that there was no light suspicion of a certain peer's being acquainted with the conspiracy long before its discovery , who cunningly pretended ignorance that the more might be involved in it . it was in his time ( it seems ) a suspicion , and a suspicion that that noble-man knew of the conspiracy , i.e. by the intelligence he kept with some of them . but in the current of ten or twelve years , from a suspicion it comes to a certainty ; from his being privy to it , it comes to be his proper invention . for now it s said to be set a work by the discoverers ; to be a trick invented by the states-man , and to be a seeming plot ; and that they were drawn into it by the dexterity of a protestant . it was in more 's time some noble man thus was suspected , but now upon the sole credit of mr. osborn , it must be the treasurer ( meaning i believe cecil , tho at the time of this treason he was secretary only ) and he for his good service was made an earl , as our author saith ; altho as luck would have it , he was so created on the saturday after st. george's day , ann. , which was above six months before this treason broke out . so inconsistent are persons with themselves , when they have not truth on their side ; and so apt are they to catch at any little thing , when they serve a cause or a party . for is it not an easie thing to raise such a report , and have we not reason to believe such will do it , whose interest it is to discharge themselves of it , and who as they would deny it if they could , so would to be sure extenuat it when it is not to be denied ? can we think that they who contrived to cast the whole upon the puritans , if it had succeeded , were not as able and willing when it miscarried to place the name of cecil in their register , as the master-workman ( as the above said author saith that sanderson doth acknowledg ) and to make him the deviser of it ? furthermore is it not usual for such as would be accounted men of wit ( which the apol. saith mr. osborn was noted for ) to allow little of that in others ; , and for such as pretend to be inquisitive & politicoes ( as the apol. saith tacitus did ) to have every thing a mystery ? can we think that he that slubbers over what k. james did well , and continually exposeth him in what he thinks he did ill ; that will hardly allow him to have any sense of honour and religion ; would not be shy also of allowing him one dram of sagacity above other men to find out a riddle , or any greater title to divine providence to help him to unfold it ? can we think that he , that was a frequenter of company , and inquisitive , ( as this author saith osborn was ) could be ignorant of such rumours as were scattered at that time abroad by the party concerned ( if such there were ) ; or that he that had a spite at the court , would not maliciously improve them ? and is there any reason to believe the one or the other upon their bare affirmation ? i do not think that the credit of such will pass at this time abroad without better certificates , and therefore since this honourable person is he alone that hath urged some arguments for it , as he affirms ; i shall consider what he hath said . and , in the first place , i think what he hath said concerning the letter sent to the lord monteagle to be very remarkable , upon which he observes , that it 's pleasant to see in most of the relations and accounts of this business , how the letter appeared nonsence forsooth to cecil , and with what a particular adulation he seemed all along to admire the king's comment and exposition ; for though his majesty had as much wit as any man living , yet the affair was so plain , that one of a far less capacity could not miscarry in it . herein i must confess he is very singular , and i am of his mind when he saith , perchance i have bin the first that urged the present arguments . for to this day all the world hath bin of another opinion ; and without doubt whoever had seen the letter before the event did unriddle it , must have no more thought of such a design then those that read the case , that del rio put , of powder being placed so , that the prince and all that are in the city would be thereby destroyed , could think of the respect which that had to england . will we hearken to their stout apologist , he acknowledgeth that rex & ingenio per se acer , & periculo factus acrior , &c. the king naturally of a sharp wit , and by his danger made more quick , when he could conceive no other way by which the parliament should be destroyed , suspected , as it was , that it must be by some mine , and so caused the place to be searched . if barclay be to be heeded , the king was divinely inspired . nay , if bellarmine * be to be credited , it was not discovered without a miracle of divine providence . and after all these it will be of some authority with protestants , not only that king james in his speech on that occasion saith it was miraculous ; and that when a general obscure advertisement was given of some dangerous blow at this time , i did ( saith he ) upon the instant interpret and apprehend some dark phrases therein , contrary to the ordinary grammar construction of them ( and in another sort than i am sure any divine , or lawyer in any vniversity would have taken them ) to be meant by this horrible form of blowing us all up by powder . but also the lords and commons in parliament declared , that the plot would have turned to the utter ruin of this whole kingdom , had it not pleased almighty god , by inspiring the king 's most excellent majesty with a divine spirit to interpret some dark phrases of a letter shewed to his maiesty , above and beyond all ordinary construction , thereby miraculously discovering this hidden treason . after all which , whether i shall , with the aforesaid author , say that the words of that letter are obvious ( and which he by way of scorn calls the miraculous letter ) or , with sir edward cook in his speech , say upon the authority aforesaid , that the king was divinely inspired by almighty god , the only ruler of princes , like an angel of god , to direct and point out as it were to the very place , to cause a search to be made , out of those dark words of the letter , concerning [ a terrible blow ] i leave the world to judg . but he will not only have the letter plain for the matter of it , but also undertakes to find out the authour , which he will needs have to be the states-man ; and thinks to come off with a pretty query or two . is it possible ( saith he ) to imagin that any man could be so mad , after he and his partizans had brought their plot to that perfection , had so solemnly swore by the trinity and sacrament never to disclose it directly or indirectly , by word or circumstance ; and had resolved to blow up all the catholick lords , and the rest of their friends , &c. to fancy that a man should write a letter , that had more in it of a plot against the state , than the bare saving of a friend . again , suppose this , yet what need was there to write , that god and man would punish the parliament , &c. and a hundred other circumstances not only suspicious , but to no manner of purpose , unless intended for the detection of the whole intrigue ? besides , no man really engaged in the treason ( had he bin never so great a fool ) would have given warning ten days before the plot was to be executed . and so he goes on to shew how this warning was quite opposite to the designs of a conspirator , &c. but beneficial to a machiavilian . from all which we may observe how much may be said by a man of wit , to baffle any cause that he undertakes to overthrow ; since this that he hath said , is in the ground of it false ( as hath elsewhere bin shewed● ) and what if i had no proof of it , yet what this honourable person saith , is far from proving what he designs . for he discourseth as if no one ever had bin false to the oath of secrecy which he had taken in any conspiracy ; or as if there were no persons in the world had ever done this with allowance . he discourseth as if no person that had a design to destroy multitudes without compassion , could not be over-ruled to spare one alone from a particular affection . he supposeth that no one in writing a letter to that purpose could unwittingly let fall such things as might beget suspicion , and be a means of discovering the design . he supposeth again that no one in so doing can be over-ruled by the providence of god to go beyond what he did intend , and to betray what he resolved to keep secret . now if any , or all of these things be true , the letter might have bin written by one that was privy to the plot , by percy or any of the rest , without the help of his machiavilian , notwithstanding what ever he hath bin pleased to say to the contrary . but if it was writ by him , why was it put into my lord monteagle's hand , who was a roman-catholick , and who must have bin a confident of cecils , and privy to the whole affair ? or else it might have miscarried through the hands of the person that carried it , or the hands of him that received it ( it being a kind of a note , and delivered in the evening ) or that lord might have contemn'd the admonition , as coming from an idle fellow in the street , as this authour saith , and throw it aside ; or he might have concealed and disowned it . or if it had come safe , and that lord did , as he did , discover and deliver it , yet the king himself might have happened not to have had the sharpness of our authours wit , and bin alike dull as others ; and then the whole intention of the letter had bin lost , which was as he saith , to have the thing discovered ; and so the secretary had lost the opportunity of making his vigilance appear , and missed of the reward of being made an earl for his service ; which are the reasons the above said author gives of the whole . and now i should have dismissed this long discourse of the letter , but that he spends above a page in shewing the folly of giving ten days warning , if all had not bin by the design of the aforesaid statesman . why it was delay'd on the secretary's part , thuanus and others do give the reason , viz. that the king being then at royston , they kept the letter till his return , which was friday novemb. . when it was shewed him , and it was the next day brought into the council , where it was ordered that search should be made , which was deferrd till monday evening , that they might give no occasion to rumour or jealousie . and why it was sent so long before ( if i may guess for once as well as our author hath often ) i conceive it might be that the lord monteagle might have time to find out some pretence for his absence , or because the person that wrote it had a sure hand to send it by . having thus fixed upon one for a contriver of the conspiracy , and withal made him to be the author of the aforesaid mysterious letter , this ingenious person did perceive that he had still said nothing , unless he was able to point to one that should be a constant spy upon the conspirators , and an useful intelligence to the projecting states-man ; and in so doing he spares not to charge one who may be well supposed as little liable to a temptation to be thus made use of , as any of the fraternity , and that is mr. tresham . for what should induce him to so great perfidiousness ? could it be a vile education that should thus debase his mind to decoy his dear relation ( for i am told by a certain author , that he and catesby were sisters children ) and intimate friends into such a design , and having thus decoy'd them to leave them to the rigor of the law ? this might perhaps lie against a bates , who was but a menial servant ; but tresham was a gentle-man of an ancient family , and had an education suitable to his extraction . could it be necessity , and this a course made use of to patch up his broken fortunes ? this might have bin a reason for a keyes , whose fortunes were sunk ( as he acknowledged upon the trial ) but tresham had a plentiful estate and promised to contribute l. towards the design . could it be a coldness in their religion , or that he really was of none ? the contrary to that is evident , in that rather than put garnet into danger , or not clear him of what he had before confessed against him , he chose to die with an apparent lye in his mouth , and did pawn his salvation to verify it . could it lastly be from a doubtfulness of the issue , and a resolution to provide for his own safety ? that we find not a title of ; but that he might have done and provided for theirs too by obliging them to desist from their design for fear of discovery ; that he might have done and never discover'd them , or taken such a base course to procure . so that if we consider the thing in it self , it might have bin as well catesby or percy ( whom an author of theirs would also fasten a suspicion in that kind upon ) or any , as tresham . but there are some reasons offered from this suspicion ; for tresham was suspected by themselves saith the apol. but what was he suspected of , not of being a spy or a setter , but of having sent the letter to the lord monteagle ; so saith tho. winter in his confession ; when catesby , tresham , and i met at barnet , we questioned how this letter should be sent to my lord monteagle , but could not conceive ; for mr. tresham forsware it , whom we only suspected ; and this he might write , and be no such person ; nay it 's certain if he had writ this letter , he could be no decoy , since there would then have bin no need to give his lordship any such warning ; when he , being privy to the whole transaction , was sure that the design would be discovered , and prevented , and so neither the lord nor any else , but the conspirators , be in danger . well , but tresham hanckered about the court when all his fellow conspirators fled , and so it 's likely he did , that he might not by his flight give any suspicion ; but when he was suspected , he shifted his lodgings , saith thuanus , and so for a time escaped . and surely this was more wisely done than to fly with the rest into the country , where they could not but be discovered , and when nothing but plain force could secure them when discovered ; and that they could have little hopes of , as long as king and parliament and london were safe . but if he had bin a decoy , what need he have hanckered about the court , or sculked afterwards for fear of discovery ; if he was cecils instrument , and had access to him at midnight ( as one , that is ready to swear to the certainty of whatever the foresaid honourable author doth with greater modesty only suspect and conjecture at , doth say ) he knew where to be safe , and by whom to be received . but a setter may be hanged , that his patron 's art might not be suspected — and if his creature will not be satisfied with words , and is like to be dangerous and unruly , 't is then only saying he died of a strangury , or some sudden distemper in prison , as it happened here to tresham , who , lest he should discover it , was never brought to a publick trial , but was with another [ nameless person ] sent to the tower , and they were never seen afterwards , lest they should tell tales , as an excellent romancer tells us . surely tresham was in the deepest dungeon , where none but the sowr keeper could come to speak with him . surely he never spoke word , but all on the sudden by the power of some poisonous potion was made to sleep his last , and being found dead , it was given out he died of the strangury . but now what if this man did indeed die of the strangury ? what if he did die while his wife and servant were with him ? what if he did not die so suddenly , but that his wife dealt with him to recant what ever he had said against garnet , and to subscribe a paper to that purpose ? why then it 's to be feared that they must seek for another to bear the part of a spy , and let mr. tresham die as the rest of the knot did , true so far to one another , tho never so false to their king and country . and this i shall prove beyond any question ; for if cecil was the contriver of this plot ( as they give out ) then tresham could not be his agent ; since the whole was communicated to winter in the latter end of the year : but tresham was not acquainted with it , nor taken in to the number till about august , as appears from winters confession . so that either the plot must not be cecils , or cecil must carry it on for a year and a half without such a factor , or else he must have another that he did thus employ than tresham . but if there was such a satesman to contrive , and such an intelligence to carry it on ; how came the conspirators , who had some suspition it seems of tresham , not to make use of such a plea to excuse themselves , or mitigate their crime , either upon their examination and trial , or at their execution ? whence again was it that those , that in those days writ apologies for them , never offered at this , altho they were such as were furnished with intelligence enough to have found it out , and sagacity enough to have made use of it , if it had bin true ? to the latter of these the answer is ready : the first apologists ( saith our author ) were strangers , as bellarmine , eudaemon , johannes , &c. who perchanceeither knew not the grounds of our suspicion , or if they did , would not in print accuse a great noble-man of a crime , while , though true , could not yet be made good , and sufficiently proved by them , for time and patience can only bring such deeds of darkness to light . it must be confessed that the persons he speaks of were strangers , but whether strangers to our affairs or not , is hardly to be questioned : there being so constant , settled , and exact a correspondence maintained betwixt the superiours and inferiours of the order of the jesuits ( of which order these apologists were ) that hardly any be greater . for the rectors and superiours of any college must every day write down the transactions of their house , and every week write to the provincial , if in europe , and with such exactness , ut omnia tanquam praesentia provincialis cernat , that the provincial may understand all things by that means as if he was present . the missionaries , who are employed abroad , are obliged to write also to the provincial every week concerning such affairs as they are concerned in , and such matters as they observe . the provincials are under the same obligation of writing to their general at rome once every month ; and in that manner also , ut omnium rerum , omniumque personarum ac provinciarum statum , quoad ejus fieri possit , ante oculos habeat : so that the general may as it were have before his eyes , as much as can be , the state of all things , persons , and provinces : but if this monthly and weekly writing be not sufficient ; in extraordinary cases , it is to be as often as there is a necessity for it : provided that in matters of secrecy it be in such cyphers as the general shall appoint , and none but him shall have a key to . now who can apprehend , that any thing in a case fit to be observed should not be known as well at rome as london ; and that those who are so punctual in lesser matters should not be as precise in understanding and making their observations upon a case , which the reputation of their religion and society were infinitely concerned in . and as for eudaemon-johannes ; besides he saith neque verò mirum , &c. let not any one wonder , that i write freely , not only of the manners and customs of england ; but also sometimes of secret affairs , when from my youth up i have bin very conversant with them . so that his converse with them , and the intelligence of his order furnished him with all things necessary for an apologist , and withall he further pretends that etiamnum versatur romae , &c. there are those now at rome , who took not only the words but the syllables garnet spoke before his execution . so punctual do they desire and would be thought to be in things of this nature , but further the apologist saith , that those persons would not in print accuse a noble-man of a crime , &c. as if they were very backward to speak ill of any ; though it be in their own vindication . but what then shall be said to the above said author , who calls sr. edward coke an impudent man , and the greatest forger of lyes and calumnies . and saith of him , that he looks upon it as dishonorable to himself , to let any thing pass from him without a lie to back it ; and yet this person whom he thus reviles was at the time of his writing lord chief justice , as he owns . what shall we say to bellarmine in his reply to king james under the name of tortus , who treats his majesty in such terms , as neither became a church-man to give , nor a prince to take ( saith dr. hakewel ) giving me nine times the lye in express terms , and seven times charging me with falsehood , which phrase is equivalent to a lye ; as king james himself saith . and besides other things of that kind there enumerated , compares him with julian the apostate , and saith jacobus non est christianus ; that james ( not vouchsafing to call him king ) was no christian. whence it appears they are not over thrifty of reproaches where there is occasion , and the greatness of the person shall not protect him from them , where they have a mind to bestow them . but what can we expect from such as will tell us in the face of the world that tresham was a decoy , that there were but four gentlemen in the powder-treason , that these four were necessitous or loose persons ; and that if any of these were papists , or so died , they were not so long before ; things altogether as true , as that percy and catesby had no weapons but their swords ; and that there was little intimacy betwixt the lord monteagle and percy . and yet all these falshoods are to be met with in a few pages of an advocate of theirs . such as will dare thus to contradict , not only our , but their own books in such evident particulars ( as those above mentioned , and which any one may be satisfied about in the books referred to in the margent ) when it may serve their turn ; such as will not spare their own party in such a case , may be presumed to sacrifice the reputation of others without difficulty for the same end ; and if they can perswade us to believe these , we may be brought to believe in time there was no such plot at all , and ( to make use of the words of a learned person ) if they go on in this way , without the least shadow of proof , to lay the contrivance of this plot on a professed protestant : for all that i know , by the next age they may hope to perswade men , that it was a plot of the protestants to blow up a popish king and parliament . so that for all that hath been said to the contrary , we have reason to believe king james , who hath published to the world , that the gunpowder-treason was only plotted by papists . now if we reflect upon all that hath bin said , and what pains hath bin taken to make cecil the deviser of all this mischief ; one would think that there was nothing else could be charged upon them ; and that they had never bin before concerned in any design of this nature . who would have thought that either the pope had issued out breves to keep any protestant prince ( such as k. james was ) out of the throne : or that ever any means had bin used by this sort of men to prevent it ! and yet pope clement . sent two breves , one to the laity , and another to the clergy , to this purpose , in which it was required , that quandocunque contingeret miseram illam faeminam ex hac vita excedere ; whensoever it shall happen that that miserable woman [ q. elizabeth ] should depart this life ; whosoever should lay claim or title to the crown of england , quantumcunque propinquitate sanguinis niterentur , &c. tho never so directly interessed therein , unless they were such as would not only tolerate the catholick [ romish ] religion , but swear with all their endeavours to promote it , they should not admit them to be king of england . but these breves , saith an author of theirs , were so far from being a prejudice to king james , that it was intended for his advantage ; for there was a letter sent to the said clement ( some two or three years before our queens death ) under the king 's own hand and seal , by the hand ( as they said ) of the scots secretary of state ; and therein his majesty gave his holiness assurance of his being a catholick , or to that purpose ; therefore the breves could not be intended to put him by , whom the pope had already such confidence in : but their drift it seems was against several english pretenders , as my lord of hertford , &c. thus far that honourable person . but if the pope was so much a friend to king james as to assert his title against all his opposers , whence was it that such care was otherwise taken to set up another , and that such books were written as doleman , for that purpose ? and whence was it that money was sent over to maintain it , as garnet himself did confess ? whence came all these prophecies of the confusion and misery that this nation should be involved in upon the death of queen elizabeth ? and why then did the jesuits tamper with catholicks , as well to diswade them from the acceptance of king james at his first coming , saying , that they ought rather to die , than to admit of any heretick to the crown ; and that they might not under pain of excommunication accept of any but a catholick for their sovereign ; as also to diswade catholicks from their loyalty , after the state was setteled ? as watson and clark two seminary priests did confess upon their apprehension . what ever is pleaded now , i am sure king james thought otherwise , who saith , it may be the like excuse [ viz. the rashness of the pope upon wrong information ] shall hereafter he made for the two breves , which clement th sent to england immediately before her death [ queen elizabeth ] for debarring me of the crown , or any other that either would profess , or any ways tolerate the professors of our religion , &c. catesby also was of another opinion : for when garnet seem'd to desire that the pope's consent might be obtained to the powder-treason : catesby answered , that he took that as granted by the pope in the two bulls or breves before ; for if it were lawful not to receive or repel him [ k. james ] ( as the said bulls do import ) then it is lawful also to expel and cast him out . garnet also himself had no such thoughts , for instead of alledging that the king was not concerned in them , he only pleads that altho he received them from the pope , yet he shewed them to very few catholicks in the queens time ; and when he had understood the pope had changed his mind , then he burnt the bulls . by which he owns that they were directed against the king , or else it were no plea for him to make , that the pope had changed his mind , and no excuse for himself , that he had burnt them . so king james himself argues against one that made use of the same shift with our author , if the breves did not exclude me from the kingdom , but rather did include me , why did garnet burn them ? why would he not receive them that i might have seen them , that so he might have obtained more favour for him and his catholicks ? so little was it then thought either by friends or foes that these bulls were sent over on that prince's behalf . but it seems the pope had some broad intimation given him of king james's affection both to his holiness and his religion ; our author calls it , an assurance of his being a catholick under his own hand and seal . and truly if it had been so , i know no better certificate could be given at that distance ; but this honourable person did with caution add , [ to the kings hand and seal ] that it was obtained by the fraud ( as they said ) of the scotish secretary of state. for indeed thereby hangs a tale , and tho the intrigue of this matter hath been sufficiently discovered and made evident to the world by several learned persons ; yet because this story hath bin revived not only by this author , but also by a spightful pen amongst our selves , * ( whom i shall not be so severe upon , because he lately upon his death-bed recanted that mischievous book ) i shall insert a brief account of it . in the year , the lord balmerinoch secretary of state in scotland , at the instance of his cousin sir edward drummond , a professed papist , did solicit the king to write a letter to clement the viii in the behalf of the bishop of vaison , their kinsman , for a cardinalship : suggesting withal that it would be a means to secure the succession of the crown to his majesty . but the king obstinatly refusing , they did contrive to shuffle in a letter , to that purpose , amongst others ( omitting the titles given to the pope and leaving room for their insertion afterwards ) and to wait when the king was ready to go on hunting to procure his hand to that with the rest . this letter so obtained , drummond carried to rome ; but within a while this being discovered to queen elizabeth , she in the year sent to the king about it . he thereupon questions balmerinoch , who absolutely denied it , and to give the king satisfaction sent for drummond , who abjured it . thus it continued , till in the year , when cardinal bellarmine undertaking to reply to the king's apology for the oath of allegiance , charged him with inconstancy upon the account of this letter . balmerinoch happen'd then to come into england about other matters ; the first thing put to him at royston ( where the king at that time was ) was the business of this letter , which he then confessed . upon this he was remitted to scotland , and there arraign'd , and condemn'd ; all the while acknowledging , as he wished god to have mercy upon his soul , that his majesty was wrongfully charged with the writing that letter . and that he was so , ( and so it could not be an argument for the popes kindness to the king in those breves ) will be evident , if it be considered , ( . ) that in the year ( as above said ) the thing was known , and the whole denied and abjured by the persons concerned , which the pope could not be ignorant of . for drummond was not only sent for over by balmerinoch to forswear it , but was notwithstanding upon suspicion imprisoned , and after he had obtained his liberty , going to rome , did , upon the importunity of balmerinoch , by some art procure that letter , and sent it back to the secretary , as he confessed . ( . ) while the pope had this letter , he did shew it to all scotsmen that came to him , enquiring if they knew the hand , and suffering some to take transcripts of it ; which if he had not suspected , he would certainly have kept to himself , or communicated only to such as he could trust such a necessary secret , as that was , with . ( . ) the pope never did return an answer to his majesty , nor did at all concern himself to do what he did desire of him ; whereas if he had believed the letter to be the act of that king , he would not have so far neglected the interest of the church , as to have slighted it . ( . ) when not many years afterwards he , did upon his own accord write an obliging letter to the king , he did not only omit the title of son , &c. which he doth give to all princes of their communion ; but also did not take any notice of that letter pretended to be written ; which would have been a very good ground to have fastened a desired correspondence upon . ( . ) this was the sense of the priests upon the point ; for after this parsons the jesuit did declare that the king was an obstinate heretick , and that there was no possibility of his conversion . and garnet , when in the last days of queen elizabeth he was solicited by a gentleman of his own religion to favour the king's title , answered , he would have nothing to do in it , for the king was so obdurate in his religion , that there was no hopes of his conversion . now , ( as the earl of northampton then said in his speech ) every one may guess that it was no sleight or ordinary degree of despair that made them renounce their portion in the son and heir of the renowned mary q. of scots , a member of the roman church . from which it appears that this letter was the letter of balmerinoch , and not of king james ; and that the pope had no more a respect to it in those breves , then there was in them intended a kindness to that king. and from all that hath been said will also appear , how little reason there is to make any other a contriver of this treason than the conspirators , and their own party . sect . ii. more were concerned in this conspiracy , than were at that time publickly known and accused . the author of the catholick apology , saith that the traitors were but thirteen laymen , viz , catesby , piercy , the two wrights , tresham , faux , keys , bates , grant , rookwood , the two winters and digby , as all writers have it , nor can any thing be more clear than that there were no more conspirators : and he is so confident as to say , that no body was privy to it [ except owen ] but these few there mentioned . where , as he would clear the jesuits of it , so he is forgetful of the five laymen , besides hall the jesuit which suffered upon the same account at worcester ; and of those that fled , mentioned by thuanus . however that few were taken and convicted upon it , is what , with our historians , i freely acknowledg . i shall further yield to this noble author , that the commons , lords and privy council were so vigilant , that they left no stone unturned to find out the depth of the plot : but that no more were concerned than were discovered , or that no more were discovered , was because no more were really concerned , is what none , but such as are blinded by prejudice , or biassed by being of a party , can imagine . this will appear if we consider , the design it it self , which was not only to blow up the parliment-house , the place , as catesby said , where they had done us the mischief , or the persons that did there contrive it ; but also to strike at the root , and breed a confusion fit to beget new alterations ; as winter did then observe to him , it was to blow up the established religion to make thereby room for their own , and to disturb the government in order to it ; and this was not to be done by fourteen lay-men , tho we cast in the four jesuits also to their assistance . whilst the plot lay under ground , and was to be carried on by mining , there needed only a few heads to contrive , and a few hands to execute : and that part of it which required only the match and the tinder , a faux alone was sufficient for ; these might manage the more secret negotiation . but if that had succeeded , there must many more have appeared upon the stage to quiet or curb the multitude ; to keep things safe at home , and maintain a fair correspondence abroad . and can it be thought that such persons , as were found to have been imployed herein , did not understand as much , or when they understood could neglect it ? can it be thought that such persons as ventured all they had in the world ; the gentlemen their estates and honours ; the jesuits their own , and the reputation of their society ; and all of them the honour of their religion , and their own lives , would put all this into jeopardy , without weighing the case , and all circumstances relating thereunto ? can it be thought that catesby , who was a cautious man ( as thuanus saith ) and one not more eminent by birth than the endowments of his mind , as another saith ; or garnet , who was one of a sharp wit , solid judgment and of long experience , as another saith , ( being several years provincial of his order ) and the rest , could lay the whole stress of such an important design upon so few as twenty persons ? can we think again such should be guilty of this omission who had been engaged in plots from time to time ; and that they who could assure the king of spain in the spanish treason , that upon his invasion the catholicks of england would have in readiness for his use and service or horses , could forget the like provision now , or that they could think of horses and provide no riders for them ? it was without doubt upon a better army than that of a few servants and horse-boys ( as the author of the apology reckons them up ) that sir everard digby was assured , that if the design had taken place there would have bin no doubt of other success ; and that there would have bin a league answerable to that in france . the persons concerned herein were not such novices as to undertake so much upon no prospect of good and sufficient assistance . this they well foresaw , and did in the beginning advise about , as winter confessed ; whilst we were together , we began to fashion our business , and discoursed what we should do after this deed was done . the first question was , how we might surprize the next heir , &c. and what we should do for money and horses , which ( saith he ) if we could provide in any reasonable measure , having the heir apparent , and the first knowledg of four or five days , was odds sufficient . this we find them consulting how to do without suspicion ; for garnet did hereupon write to baldwin the legier jesuit in the low-countries , in the behalf of catesby , that one should move the marquess for a regiment of horse for catesby ; not with any intent , as it was agreed , that catesby should undertake the charge , but that under colour of it , horses and other necessaries might be provided without suspicion to furnish the traitors . this we find further that they had done ; for watson and clark , priests , at their apprehension , did affirm that there was some treason intended by the jesuits , and then in hand ; as for other reasons , so for that they had collected and gathered together great sums of money to levy an army therewith when time should serve : and had both bought up store of great horses about the country , and conveyed powder and shot , and artillery secretly to their friends , wishing them not to stir , but to keep themselves quiet , until they heard from them . and it seems that they had met with good success in it , for there was in june a conference and consultation betwixt garnet , catesby , and tresham concerning the strength of the catholicks in england , to the end that garnet might by letters send direct advertisement thereof to the pope , for that his holiness would not be brought to shew his inclination concerning any such commotion , until such time as he should be certainly informed , that they had sufficient and able force to prevail . by which they must suppose not only that the catholick party was strong in it self , but also that that strength should be in readiness upon this occasion , or else their message to the pope had been to little or no purpose . this sir everard digby in his papers often glances at . for he saith , i shall not need to clear any living body either private or publick , for , i never named any body , but reported that those that are dead did promise , that all forces in those parts round about mr. talbot would assist us , but this can hurt nothing , for they openly spoke it . so again , we all thought if we could procure mr. talbot to rise , that — and we had in our company his son in law , who gave us some hope of , and did not much doubt it . ( this i conceive to be mr. talbot of peper hill , from what i find of him in a manuscript in my possession . ) let us hear sir everard further as to this matter , the greatest of our business ( saith he ) stood in the possessing the lady elizabeth , who lying within eight miles of dunchurch , we would have easily surprized , &c. if she had been in rutland , then stoaks was near , and in either place we had taken sufficient order to have been possessed of her . in either place , we see was sufficient order , but that could not have been without a party in rutland , that we read nothing of . nay , we find sir. everard after his imprisonment to be not without hopes of good seconds , and of making his terms by the fear which the court might be in of them . for thus he saith , i have some guess that it worketh , but the lieutenant maketh all shew to me of the contrary ; for , saith he , the catholicks are so few in number , that they are not to be feared on any terms , for on his knowledg there were not above in all england . besides , he said they were easily pacified ; i would not at all argue the matter with him , but if the number should be objected to me , &c. whereby we may perceive what his opinion was in the case , who could not but understand in some measure what the condition and strength of his party was , and what expectation they might reasonably have from it . the catholicks were in his judgment many , and to be feared , and he did apprehend they would not be wanting to their cause or them in that juncture . which agrees with what we find observ'd by the secretary , that by diverse advertisements from beyond the seas , he understood that the papists were making preparations for some combination amongst them against this parliament time , for enabling them to deliver at that time to the king , some petition for toleration of religion : which should be delivered in some such order , and so well back'd , as the king should be loth to refuse their requests . it 's likely that it was given out amongst , and by themselves that there was such a petition preparing , and if they could but possess their own party by that means , so as to be in expectation of it , it might serve to satisfie them about any report of an insurrection ; and keep them from enquiring into that which they endeavoured to keep within the breasts of a few . and this will serve to give light to what i have before said at the beginning of this section , viz. that more were concerned in this conspiracy than were at that time publickly known , that is , more than we read of did know of the very manner of a plot , for the destruction of the king , &c. ( as those that were to surprize the next heir ; ) and many more of a plot to bring in and set up their religion by force of arms. to this purpose it was that care was taken at the first for assistance from abroad ; and that a continual negotiation was maintained with spain by the jesuits , as watson and clark did depose ; which they said they were sure tended to nothing , but a preparation for a forraign commotion . it 's true that king james speaks favourably in this case of forraign princes , and their ministers ; but if we may believe osborn , he saith , that the king of spain had an army then in flanders to land , in the huge mist so black a cloud must needs have caused over the nation ; and that when the people heard that his catholick majesty sent an agent on purpose to congratulate king james ' s preservation , he could not tell it the cardinal d'ossat without laughing in his face at so palpable a piece of flattery , as he conceived it to be . to this purpose was it that prayers were appointed to be used by those that were romishly affected throughout the whole nation , as not only osburn relates , but also as it hath been this last year confirmed from sancta clara's , &c. own mouth by mr. s. in his depositions before the council ; and is yet to be seen in a book of theirs wrote in the beginning of king james's reign , where are many passages relating hereunto ; in a consolatory psalm ( as it 's there called ) its said , confirm your hearts in hope , for your redemption draweth nigh . the year of visitation draweth to an end , and jubilation is at hand . england shall be called a happy realm , a blessed country , a religious people . those which knew the former glory of religion , shall lift up their hands for joy to see it — returned again . righteousness shall prosper , and infidelity shall be plucked up by the roots ! again , false error shall vanish like smoke : and they which saw it shall say , where is it become ? the daughters of babylon shall be cast down , and in the dust lament their ruin . proud heresie shall strike her sail ; and groan as a beast crushed under a cart wheel . — the memory of novelties shall perish with a crack , as a ruinous house falling to the ground . repent ye seducers with speed , and prevent the dreadfull wrath of the most powerable . — he will come as a flame that burneth out beyond the furnace , his fury shall fly forth as thunder , and pitch upon their tops which maligne him . so in the fifth psalm of his composure — they [ enemies ] shall perish in thy fury : and melt like wax before the fire . i have repeated the more from this book , because it was made about that season , and also because it 's very hard to be got . from which we may observe ( . ) that the jubilee they expected was very near . ( . ) that this was to be by the destruction of their enemies . ( . ) that it should be such a destruction as would render the enemies uncapable of resistance or recovery . ( . ) the manner is as much pointed out as a thing of that nature ( that was a secret , and charily to be kept as such ) could be ; heresie shall vanish like smoak ; the memory of novelties shall perish with a crack ; he will come as a flame that burneth out beyond a furnace , &c. as the time drew on , so they were more secure of success , and more confident and open in their expectations of it . thus it was abroad ; for henry flood a jesuit caused the jesuits at lisbon to spend a great deal of money on powder , upon a festival day , a little before the gunpowder-treason in england , to make experiment of the force of it ; and perswaded one john how ( a merchant whom he had perverted ) and diverse other catholicks to go over into england , and to expect their redemption there ( as he called it ) a while ; as we have the relation of it . thus it was also at home , for a few days before the appointed time , garnet meets the other traitors at coughton in warwick-shire , which was the place of rendezvouz , whither they resorted out of all countreys . and upon the first of november garnet openly prayeth for the good success of the great action concerning the catholick cause in the beginning of the parliament ; adding these verses of an hymn in the end of his prayer , — gentem auferte perfidam credentium de finibus , vt christo laudes debitas persolvamus alacriter . this garnet never denied , but pleaded that he went thither with a purpose to disswade mr. catesby , when he should have come down — an answer most absurd ( as the earl of salisbury replied to him ) seeing he knew catesby would not come down till the th of november , which was the day after the blow should have been given ; and garnet went into the country ten days before . if this had been his errand , it would rather have kept him in london , where catesby was , than carried him from it . as to the prayer he used , he had prepared this answer ( as he told hall in their secret conference together ) it is true ( saith he ) that i prayed for the good success of that great action , but i will tell them , that i meant it in respect of some sharper laws , which i feared they would then make against the catholicks : and that answer shall serve well enough . in which ( . ) he plainly grants that he had another end in reciting that verse , than he would own to them that should examine him upon it . ( . ) it appears that the end which he did it for , was what he was very much afraid to have discovered . as is evident from his own letters , in one of which he saith , i know not how i shall satisfie them about my journey to coughton ; and in another , there is a rumour of a sermon preached by me at hall ; i am afraid it 's that which i made at coughton . and he further said to hall , if i can clear my self of this ( which i hope to do ) i care not what otherwise they have to object against me , &c. and can we then think that it was by chance that he recited those verses ( being used in the octaves of all-saints day ) as his apologist saith ; or that the prayers then used were only for toleration , as the english apologist would have it . if this had been true , what need he be so careful about it , what need he take such care for an answer to it ? if it had been by chance , the thing would have spoke for it self . or if it had been for favour and toleration , it was not what they needed to be afraid to own : for how could it be more dangerous to pray to god for success in it than it would have been to frame a petition and present it to their prince for it ? it sounds somewhat better , which one of the above said authors doth frame upon further consideration ; that when garnet despair'd of hindring the conspirators , the good man having tried all humane wayes in vain , adds the publick prayers to his own , ut deus , vel pestem eam averteret , vel si ita expedire videret , felicem certè funesto facinori exitum daret ; that god would either divert it , or grant an happy conclusion to this villanous enterprize ; and that what ever happens it might turn to the good of the church , as he again expounds himself . by which we see how much they are put to it that would give a colour to an ill action ; how they say and unsay , ( as this author doth ) one while its by chance , another while by choice ; and how they contradict one another . unhappy man ! that could not light upon these answers that are since made for him ; and very fortunate are they that can frame apologies for actions which those that were intimately concerned in them never thought upon . but as long as this prayer was then used , and no better account can be given of it by him or those that speak for him ; we have all the reason in the world to believe it to have a respect to the action that he , and the rest , were condemned for ; and that this was a part of those forms of prayer , that were sent down and used for the success of that great errand , as king james saith . it is granted then that there was an intimation given out of some great design on foot against the session of parliament ; but whether it did respect a petition against , some sharper laws at that time feared to be made against catholicks ( as garnet said ) or whether a toleration ( as another ) or whether the powder-treason and an insurrection upon it , i hope what hath been already said will help in good measure to resolve ; although we cannot so particularly point to time and place , persons , and counsels herein concerned , & what are indeed impossible , in our circumstances , fully to discover . the author of the catholick apology saith , that winter , in his printed confession descends to all particulars ; which , if true , would have afforded an excellent light to us . but that is far otherwise , for that confession was taken the of november , not long after his apprehension ; and it was immediately published to give some satisfaction to the world ; but being imperfect , he was afterwards taken into further examination , and many other things were confessed by him upon it . in his printed confession , we have an account of the beginning and progress of the gunpowder-treason , ( strictly so called ) , there we have an account of what was debated and projected by them in the vault , and what provisions they were further to make for the accomplishing the design : but all the while there is not a word of what was done in order to it . all this could not be done without men , and arms , horses and mony ; but we read nothing then of the levies that were made , of the horses that were in readiness , nor of the treasure that was provided ( except what was subscribed by tresham and digby ) and yet we are as sure that such a design was not to be carried on without these , as we are that there was such a design . therefore it will be fit to enquire from whence it is that we have no fuller account as to these matters . and we shall be helped in this , if we consider , ( . ) that in the beginning of such a design as this was , there was no need of many assistants , ( as i have before shewed ) and so they took into it no more then they had present occasion for , either in working in the mine , &c. or bearing the charge . whatever accomplices they had abroad , had nothing else to do , but to lye quiet , and wait till the hour did approach and the signal was given . so watson the priest confessed , that they had brought up store of great horses , and conveyed powder , &c. secretly to their friends , wishing them not to stir , but keep themselves quiet until they heard from them . from hence it was that either none were discovered but the head contrivers of it ; or those , that upon presumption of the success above , got too early into arms , as grant &c. or such as being sure , if any , to be discovered got into a body , and endeavoured for that reason to provoke others to joyn with them , as catesby , &c. but the rest that were to lie still , and to keep themselves quiet till the blow was given , thought it best in prudence , when it had miscarried , to continue so . ( . ) the encreasing of assistants , and the communicating of their counsels to many at the first , was so far from being needful , that it would have been dangerous . it would have endangered the whole , for by that means the design might have got air , and been defeated . it would have endangered their friends ( if it had been discovered ) and needlesly exposed them . this was the reason that owen gave , why sir william stanley would not be acquainted with any plot ( though a hearty well-wisher to it ) as having business a-foot in the court of england , ( for fear , i. e. if the plot should be discovered , and he discoverd to be privy to it , he should then lose his interest there ) and not that he would not trust him with such a secret , as the author of the cath. apol. would have it . ( . ) when they did communicate their design to any , and take them into their counsel and assistance , it was with all the caution imaginable . for they took an oath of secrecy , and the sacrament upon it ; the sum of the oath was ; you shall swear by the blessed trinity , and by the sacrament you now purpose to receive , never to disclose , directly or indirectly , by word or circumstance , the matter that shall be proposed to you to keep secret ; nor desist from the execution thereof , until the rest shall give you leave . the like care was taken with respect to owen , bates , and digby . and garnet himself confesseth , that by word and writing , he had often protested that he would never betray them . so that it seems they had obliged even him after some solemn manner to secrecy . ( . ) their caution was further remarkable , that , neither the manner of the thing was known to many , nor the persons frequently to each other . it was enough to prepare their party by some general intimation ; but the how , or the what , or the where , was what the principal cabal and consult kept for the most part secret to themselves . so much is acknowledged by sir everard digby ; as i did not know it directly , that it was approved by such ( referring to some persons of great authority either in point of dignity , wisdom , or conscience ) so did i hold it in my conscience the best , not to know any more if i might . so again , this answer [ of garnet's ] with mr. catesby ' s proceedings with him and me , gave me absolute belief that the matter in general was approved , though every particular was not known . he that was privy to the main , and a principal undertaker in one great part of the design , which was to seize upon the princess , and head the party that was thereabouts , was ignorant in some other things relating to it . and what he did not desire to know if he might , others its likely might not know , if they desired it . those that knew their own work , and were assigned to some particular office , might know no more what they did , or were to do , who were above , than every little officer in a reigment , is acquainted with the debates and resolves of a secret council of war : and they that were ready to obey , and whose work it was to observe the motions of the commander in their eye , might think no more of killing the king , or of blowing up the parliament , than that they should be blown up themselves . the good of the catholick cause , and an insurrection for promoting it , is what perhaps such might be trusted with the knowledg of ; but the destruction of the royal family ( excepting one whose name they were to make use of ) and setting up a protector , might be as little known to them , as their commanders are to us . they might have an intimation of a great alteration coming on , and of the happy days that were approaching ; and half a sentence might serve to break the business to them ( whom they would prepare for it ) and a nod to supply what was farther to be revealed , but that should be left till time and success should interpret it . thus speaks henry morgan , who being asked by hammond the jesuit ( unto whom he amongst the rest made confession ) what led him to joyn with winter , &c. answered , i did not , saith he , well understand it , but they told me that religion and life was at stake , and so it was matter of conscience induced me to it . when therefore the case is thus , we can have no better information , or understand more from such , then they were permitted to understand . for the same reason was it , that , as it was in the invasion , the conspirators were not generally known to one another , unless those who were of the cabinet council . every one knew his immediate fellow or partner , and perhaps his commander ; but the number and strength , or persons otherwise he could in such a case at best but suspect ; so we find that neither littleton , nor rookwood knew greenwell . and that they did practise according to this principle is evident from winter's confession , where we read that catesby desired leave , that he with mr. percy , and a third , whom they should call , might acquaint whom they thought fit and willing to the business : for many , said he , may be content that i should know , who would not therefore that all the company should be acquainted with their names . so sir everard digby , i knew , saith he , that faux could reveal me , for i must make choice of two besides mr. catesby , which i did of him and mr. winter . he had a part which he would not have every one acquainted with . but above all garnet was most cautious herein , who was wont for a good while to converse only with catesby , and those of his own order about this business ; insomuch as sir everard digby saith , in the place before quoted , i did not know it directly that it was approved by such ; which he principally understands of garnet ; for he saith further , before that i knew any thing of this plot , i did ask mr. farmer [ i. e. garnet , for that was one of the six names he was called by ] what the meaning of the pope's brief was ; he told me that they were not ( meaning priests ) to undertake or procure any stirs , &c. and this answer , with mr. catesby's proceedings with him and me , gave me absolute belief that the matter in general was approved , &c. so that he understood garnet's meaning indirectly only by the answer given to that question , and by the account which catesby also gave him of the provincial's opinion in the case . catesby being his mouth to the company , and giving them assurance that it was garnet's judgment as well as his own . this garnet doth acknowledge , in a letter of his , what should i do ? saith he , first of all the other conspirators did accuse me ; and again , catesby always made use of my authority with them , by which means he perswaded almost every body to think well of the matter . thus carefully did this subtile man proceed , that he might preserve his own honour and life , and that which seemed to be as dear to him as both , the honour of his order and society . from all which we see , that though the party hung together , yet it was by such strings that few could perceive among themselves , the clue being in the hands of the chief of the conspiracy : and that consequently we cannot expect that full and clear evidence , as we might have had , had such of them as catesby and piercy lived to make discovery ; or had such of them as lived to be examined and tryed , been inclined to it . but that we find otherwise . for , . when they were discovered , and apprehended , they did with great obstinacy deny every thing that either was not forced from , or could not be directly proved against them . thus faux laid all the blame upon himself , and would confess none of his complices , till he was carried to the tower and shewed the rack . thus resolved , we find sir everard digby , who saith , more reasons i had to perswade me to this belief , than i dare utter , which i will never to the suspicion of any , though i should to the rack for it . so again , i will do as much as my partner wisheth , and it will then appear , that i shall not hurt or accuse one man : and however i might in general possess them with fear , in hope to do the cause good ; yet my care was ever to lose my own life , rather than hurt the unworthiest member of the catholick church . tell her i have ever loved her and her house , &c. and i will not live to manifest the contrary . where we find that they were much afraid of him , who was able to do them a great deal of mischief from the knowledge that he had of the party and the design ; and who perhaps they thought might be induced to it from the desire of life , being but about years old , and one of a plentiful estate ; but he shews himself to be true to his principles and engagements . of the like temper and resolution do we find mr. habington , for saith he , my lord chief justice fell in the end to two points . the one , if mr. tesmond ever moved me to joyn with sir everard digby , mr. catesby , mr. winter and others in rebellion against the king , but that they could not prove ; the other if i knew of mr. garnet ' s being in my house . i too confident they would not confess any thing against me , denied them both . he doth not deny but that the whole was true ; only the one wanted proof , and he did believe the other would never be confessed . and he had good reason for it ; for he tells us , that it was mutually resolved by garnet , hall and himself , that if those two were at any time taken in his house , we should , saith he , absolutely renounce all knowledg and acquaintance one with another . of this we have also another instance in one owen , who was garnet's man , that rather then be tortured ( which he was in fear of ) and any thing should be wrested from him to the damage of his party , ript up his own belly , and so died ; by the wound , i say , which he gave himself , and not by having his bowels forced out by torture , as garnet's lying apologist would perswade the world. but amongst all their accomplices they were most of all bent to conceal their priests , and by no means to own any of them to be in the confederacy . there was nothing sir everard digby seem'd to be more concern'd to clear himself of the suspicion of offending in ; as yet , saith he , they have not got of me the affirming that i know any priest particularly , nor shall ever do to the hurt of any , but my self . and i have before all the lords cleared all the priests in it for any thing i know . and this he was so resolved in , that he would not utter any thing to the suspicion of any such , though , saith he , i should to the rack for it . and to testifie his affection further that way , he was resolved to clear them at the bar , for thus saith he ; sure i am that i never did yet confess to know him [ one that he calls brother , who is a priest , and , by his being said to give the sacrament to five at one time , i conceive is meant gerard , who did administer it to catesby and four others of the conspirators at the beginning of the plot ] nor any of the three . i do it not in regard of my self , as it shall appear at the bar : for whatsoever i could do for him or any of his [ i. e. his order ] i would do it though it cost me never so much sufferance : but i have been sparing in that , because i may do more in publick , which will i think be best ; as you wish , i will do , &c. this also he did , seeking by protestations to clear all jesuites of those practices which they themselves confessed , ex ore proprio ; as the earl of salisbury said . in order to which they though it allowable , nay , praise-worthy , to lye , and perjure themselves . as to the former we have too many instances in sir everard's papers , for he denies that ever he took the sacrament to keep secret the plot ; because , saith he , i would avoid the question ; at whose hands it were . he denied that father wally [ i. e. garnet , for that is another of his names ] was at coughton with him ; though garnet confessed it afterwards himself . he affirmed that he did not know darcy [ who was also so called ] to be the same with garnet , and that he did not take him to be a priest ; though he was very well acquainted with him . and if we will put their principles to it , we may see how far they will go in tresham ; who when he had before let fall some words tending to make garnet guilty of the spanish treason ; rather than he would be guilty ( as he and his wife thought ) of so great impiety , as to bring a priest into danger by a true accusation , chose to perjure himself , and as he was a dying man ( for within three hours after he died ) and hoped for salvation , did acquit him of it , saying , that he had not seen the provincial in sixteen years before ; whereas by garnet's own confession they had had frequent conversation with each other for the three years last past . but if these gentlemen ( who usually stand upon the honour of their word ) would go about to excuse all jesuits how foul soever , out of an opinion that it is meritorious so to do , at such time as they had no hope of themselves , as the earl of salisbury observed : then what may not be expected from the jesuits themselves , who had so powerfully instilled these principles into persons otherwise generous , and when their own life and honour , and the honour of their religion and society came deeply to beconcerned . we may then expect obstinacy and subtilty should meet together , and all that art and nature can do shall be made use of to clear them of the scandal and danger that would otherwise befall them . and we shall not fail of an example herein , if we do but peruse the examinations , and trial , the answers , and confessions of garnet , who at this time was the provincial of that order in england . we shall find his great care was not so much to speak truth , as to serve his cause , and excuse himself ; and if he could but dress up a story , and make what he calls formalis fabula ( in one of his letters that was intercepted ) , he would not want confidence , and the most powerful asseverations to confirm it . i shall not trouble the reader with the petty ways he had of saying and unsaying as might serve his turn ; as when before the lords commissioners he truly and freely confessed his treasons , being ( as himself under his own hand confessed ) overwhelmed , tanta nube testium , yet , ad faciendum populum , to delude the people and preserve his own reputation ; in his letters which he wrote abroad , he cleareth himself of the powder-treason , as sir edward coke relates . these are tricks not to be taken notice of in comparison of the boldness which he at other times did take to excuse and clear himself . is he charged with having writ letters to greenwell , and when he had denied it , required to give his answer upon the word of a priest ? he again denies it obstinately ; and yet the commissioners had then the letters in possession ▪ upon which , he contented himself to say , that he denied it , because he thought they had them not . is he demanded whether hall and he had conference together , and desired not to equivocate ? how stifly did he deny it upon his soul , reiterating it with so many detestable execrations , as the earl of salisbury said , it wounded their hearts to hear him ; and yet when it was proved to his face , confessed the thing ; as not only the proceedings , but his own letters do declare ; coming off with this salvo , that when any one is charged before a magistrate , he is not bound to answer before witnesses are produced ; quia nemo tenetur prodere seipsum , because no one is bound to betray himself . this is a new way of arguing , but it 's not the only singular thing befel him in that kind ; for whereas all mankind do practise sincerity at their death ; yet even then he could not forget to prevaricate ; for he said upon the scaffold immediately before his execution , , that he only had a general knowledg of the fact by mr. catesby , &c. and what he knew in particulars was in confession : when yet the king had under his own hand-writing to the contrary ( as the recorder wished him to remember ) as shall be shewed in the next section . so that upon the whole he abundantly made good what the earl of northampton said to him at his tryal , i confess that never any man in your state gave less hold or advantage to examiners , than you have done in the whole course of proceeding , to us that were in commission : sometime by forswearing , as upon the confession of hall your fellow : sometime by dissembling , as about the places of your rendezvous , which was the lapwings nest : sometime by artificial equivocation : sometime by sophisticating true substances : sometime by adding false qualities : yet sat superest , as may appear , to the defeat of your inventions , and the defence of the kings majesty ; quia magna est veritas , & praevalet . now if we lay all these things together , and consider , how few the design , ( as far as it went ) , needed to have actually concerned in it , how cautious they were in choosing persons for their turn , and in obliging them to secrecy when they were chosen ; how cunning they were to shew the plot by parts , and in disposing of persons ; so that few amongst them did know , and so should not betray each other , ( if through fickleness or fear they might be so disposed ) ; how firm and resolute they were upon discovery and apprehension ; it is so far from being an objection against the history of this plot , which makes it popish , that so few were discovered ; that it's matter of wonder there is so much reason as there is to prove it to be so . now it may be worth our while a little to consider how they came by so much evidence as they had in the case . as , ( . ) some things were evident of themselves , and not to be denied , they being taken in the fact ; as it was with faux , and those of them that were openly in arms. ( . ) other things were confessed , for fear of the rack , or the little tast they had of it ; as it was with faux in his first confession . ( . ) so much intelligence being obtained ; the commissioners shewed this to the others , and so drew them on to confess more . this is one of the reasons garnet gives to excuse himself for confessing so much as he did , in one of his letters that was intercepted . this is the account he also gave of himself as to that matter at his death . being upon the gibbet he said — to whom [ the lords of the privy-council ] i remember my humble duty , and i am sorry that — i did dissemble with them ; but i did not think that they had such proof against me , till it was shewed me : but when that was proved , i held it more honour for me at that time to confess , than before to have accused . ( . ) sometimes it was by several examinations , at some distance of time ; this put garnet to it ; as he acknowledgeth in his letter to mrs ann ; let any one think , saith he , after several examinations by the wisest men of the nation , besides particular discourses with the lieutenant of the tower , what could be done . it s nothing but truth can in such a case make a man constant to himself , and he therefore that had nothing but , what he calls formalis fabula , a forged story to save himself , must needs be often at a loss . as it happened to him ; for sometime he would say greenwel told him the business in confession , sometimes it was by way of consultation : one while upon the word of a priest he burnt the popes breves as soon as king james was proclaimed ; another time he burnt them at coughton . ( . ) sometimes they did discover themselves through want of understanding one another . as it was with garnet , who knowing catesby was dead , and thinking greenwell had made his escape , concluded he might then safely say any thing , and so would own no other knowledg of the plot but what he had in confession : but afterwards understanding ( through misinformation ) that he was taken , least greenwell should confess and prevent him in it , he then acknowledged that he had it out of confession . ( . ) sometimes a confession was extorted by confronting of evidence . so when garnet declared that he had no design of writing in behalf of baynham , but to prefer him to a command ; being opposed herein by the testimony of faux , who said that he was sent to rome on purpose to implore the pope's aid for their assistance upon the success of their design ; he did then confess it . so it was betwixt hall and him ; as it follows . ( . ) sometimes a discovery was made by the intercepting of their letters or discourse ; and both these befel garnet . for undertaking to write a letter to one rookwood a priest , at that time in the gate-house ; and another to mrs. ann vaux ; and a third to the fathers and brethren , &c. they were all taken , and much discovered by them . again , having a mind to discourse with hall the jesuit , then also a prisoner in the tower ; and prevailed with the keeper to find out a way for it . the keeper did so , but withal discovered it ; and two gentlemen of unquestionable reputation being placed secretly within the hearing of it , gained considerable particulars against him , which he was forced by that means to confess . by these and the like means was their obstinacy and subtilty conquer'd , and the intelligence drawn from them which we have as to this matter . but where these reasons were not , we are little beholden to them . for what is said of garnet in a more especial manner ; that there was no truth gained from him , which he did not find himself constrained to confess by witnesses and testimonies of undoubted credit ; is also in proportion true of all the rest , forasmuch as i can perceive by the most diligent enquiry . the author of the cath. apol. saith , that there were no more conspirators , because no gentleman was discovered , [ besides those that were killed , and taken , and owen ] which could not happen out of design to save their friends . this he offers two reasons for : ( . ) because several particulars ( which might have been easily kept secret ) were revealed , as may be found in their printed confessions . ( . ) the malefactors did accuse their confessors , and therefore certainly they would never have spared others , had there been any guilty . this cannot be supposed , saith another , that they had not tenderness enough to leave any other undiscovered ; whose conscience compelled them , to expose their own confessors to their deserved penalty . to which the last author adds , ( . ) that not one nobleman , or any other of the catholick gentry did know or approve of that wicked conspiracy ; because the catholick lords [ all of them , saith the cath. apol. ] were to have undergone the same barbarous fate with the rest . but i cannot conceive the force of the first argument ; for what if there were several particulars revealed by them , which might easily have been kept secret ? might not that be so , and yet there be nothing of sincerity and conscience in the case ? might it not be done for the connexion of one thing to another ? ( which often times makes circumstances to be necessary , as it is there . ) might it not be done to impose upon the examiners , and to let them think that when they are so exact in the less , they will not let slip the greater ? and have we not just cause to think this to be the reason , rather than what the apologist doth offer for it ? if indeed these printed confessions had been so exact ( as he will needs suppose ) then there had been some colour for what he says ; but when the contrary is manifest , his argument falls of it self . and that this is so , appears from what i have before observed , for faux and winter upon second examination confessed more ; and what they did afterward confess was so material , as could not be forgotten by them before , had they not been willing to have concealed it , if they well could . but again , where is the consequence ( setting aside the conscience in it ) that because they did sometimes let fall some things of little importance , therefore they must needs also reveal things of an higher nature ; therefore they must betray those friends , who had not by any overt acts discovered themselves ? so that before this argument must be granted , we must grant that faux and winter were privy to the whole plot ; and that part in which they were not personally concerned , as well as what they were . we must grant , that they made conscience of not concealing any part or particular of it , ( as far as they knew ) ; and we must further grant that all these particulars are contained in their printed confessions . or else we may safely conclude , that notwithstanding there are several particulars revealed in their printed confessions ( which might have been easily kept secret ) they might have a design to save their friends ; and there might be more persons in the plot than are recorded in their confessions ; and ( which is pity ) a pretty argument is thereby lost ; and which is worse than that , it might be a popish and general plot notwithstanding . but however , will they say , if they were sincere in those confessions , then a part of it still remains good ; and what greater argument can there be for that they were sincere , than that they did accuse their own confessors ( which is a thing , that nothing but the power of truth can force them to ) and if they did not spare them , they would certainly not spare others . in answer to which i shall consider , . whether they did thus accuse their confessors ? . whether if they did , their conscience ( as is pleaded ) compelled them to it ? as to the first , . it is notorious , that there were several of them did not at all accuse their confessors ; this is certain as to sir everard digby , that he ( against his own knowledg ) did all he could upon his trial to vindicate them : and if we peruse the printed confessions , we shall not find a word to that purpose . if faux and winter did afterwards accuse any , it was what they were , if not very backward and cold , yet very imperfect in . for the earl of salisbury tells garnet ; let it not be forgotten that this interlocution of yours with hall , overheard by others , appears to be digitus dei : for thereby had the lords some light and proof of matter against you , which might have been discovered otherwise by violence and coercion . implying , as morus observes , that they had not matter before sufficient to charge him with . the great thing charged upon him seems to be , that some of the others confessed , that his name was used to them by catesby to justifie the lawfulness of the act , as garnet in one of his letters doth say ; but what he there adds , that all did so confess , is manifestly false . since , besides what is abovesaid of sir everard , morus doth declare , that nothing was confessed against the jesuits , but what bates said of greenwel [ or greenway ] viz. that he was in the company of the conspirators ; and which sir everard said , he heard he should confess of wally ( or garnet . ) so that when these late apologists say the traitors did all accuse and expose their confessors , it s more than was true , and more than the jesuits will thank them for . for all of them that hitherto pleaded the cause of the jesuits do say the contrary ; more shall speak for the rest ; who saith , for ought i can perceive , the accusation of the jesuits hath no other foundation than the confession of bates , who is said to have accused greenway , &c. and he would perswade us also , that persons of good credit reported that while in prison he confessed that he had accused him falsly . how true this is i shall afterward consider ; but i produce this to shew what contrary things these men will say if it may serve their cause ; when in the last age it was pleaded none did accuse the jesuits , and when in ours they would have it that they were accused by all . but ( . ) supposing they did accuse their confessors , yet it was not because their conscience did compel them to it ; this more will have them so far from , that he saith , bates did accuse them in hope of life , and afterward recanted . but whether bates did so or no ; yet in point of reason it is evident that it was not from any such motive : for then they that thus accused them would have repented of the eact it self , and look'd upon it as an evil , & fit to be repented of . for what could move them in point of conscience thus to expose them , if it was not that the fact was evil , which their confessors together with them had been complicated in ? but this we find them far from acknowledging : for sir everard digby ( though for a little while after his imprisonment he doubted of the warrantableness of it , yet being confirmed in it by the letters of gerard , whom he calls brother ) was so well satisfied , that he calls it the best cause . of the like mind were robert winter and faux ; for having found an opportunity for conference in the tower from the nearness of their lodgings , robert winter said to faux , that he and catesby had sons , and that boys would be men , and that he hoped they would revenge the cause : nay that god would raise up children to abraham out of stones . and they added , that they were sorry , that no body did set forth a defence or apologie of their action ; but yet they would maintain the cause at their deaths . and so it 's likely they did , for king james saith , that some of them continued so obstinate , that even at their death , they would not acknowledg their fault ; but in their last words , immediately before the expiring of their breath , refused to condemn themselves , and crave pardon for their deed , except the romish church should first condemn it . of this we have a particular example in grant , when being admonished just before his death by a learned and reverend person to ask pardon of god for his offence ; he confidently and readily replied ; that he was so well satisfied that there was no sin in the case , that on the contrary , he thought that he deserved so well for that generous and brave attempt , that it would abundantly suffice for a satisfaction for all the sins of his whole life . so little did they generally repent of the fact , and so little reason have we to think that what they confessed proceeded from compulsion of conscience ; but rather that it was from some other reason ; as fear of the rack , or surprize , or because others had confessed , or that they themselves had given occasion from what they had before confessed for a further enquiry , &c. so it happened with faux and th. winter who at the first accused none of the jesuits ; but having confessed that they received the sacrament , that led the way to a further examination about the priests , whom they at last confessed also . this sir everard foresaw , and therefore he took another course , ( as is before observed ) and denied that he had received the sacrament at all upon this occasion . now that what i have before said is true , will appear from the behaviour of stephen littleton , who though he had confessed that he sent to hall ( after their defeat ) for advice whither to retire ; and had , with others , acknowledged that he and the rest had confessed to hammond ( a little before ) yet he absolutely refused to answer whether he received absolution from him for the fact , or had his conscience satisfied by him about it ; and added , that he would rather dye than reveal the secrets of that matter . and robert winter , who had at first confessed that all the jesuits named , were privy to and engaged with them in the conspiracy ; yet , as is before observed , did maintain their cause , and resolve to defend it at his death . truly i find none of them that had any touch of remorse but rookwood and tho. winter ; and for the latter it is observable that when he said , i shall set down mine own accusation , &c. which i shall the faithfuller do , since i see such courses are not pleasing to almighty god ; yet was so far from doing so , that he speaks there not one word of gerard ( whom upon a further examination he discovered ) or any other jesuit ; so that his confession at that time seems rather to be owing to his second reason that he there gives , than his first , and that is , because the most material parts had bin already confessed . to conclude this , when the traitors did accuse their confessors , either they did this sincerely , and because compelled by their conscience , or not ; if not ( as i have shewed ) then what doth the argument signify ; that if the tenderness of their conscience did compel them to expose their own confessors , then they would not have spared others . but if they did thus confess them sincerely and out of conscience , then their confessors were guilty of what these charged them with . and then let them take their choice . i shall now proceed to the consideration of the last argument , by which they would endeavour to prove that it was not a popish plot , and , that not any besides the abovesaid conspirators were concerned in this treason , viz. that all the catholick lords were to have undergone the same barbarous fate with the rest . supposing this was true ( as it is not ) yet is not the pope's interest to be promoted and the cause of the jesuits maintained , though the nobility of their own way be destroyed ? was there not a time when in an intended invasion to be carried on by force from abroad , and a secret conspiracy at home , that it was not the persons they regarded , but interest ? it was to make room , place and space for my master , said the duke of medina . and might not this be the case in , as well as it was in ? and so their religion be thereby settled , and place and space made for the master of rome , as well as spain , and authority and power gain'd to the society ; it is no matter though the innocent perish with the nocent , and friends as well as foes fall by the same stroak . this was foreseen in the present conspiracy , ▪ and when it was made a case of conscience by catesby , it was resolved in the affirmative by garnet , that for the good and promoting of the catholick cause against hereticks ( the necessity of time and occasion so requiring ) it was lawful among many nocents to destroy and take away some innocents also . so that it might be a popish plot , though the catholick lords , and all the catholick lords were to perish with the other . but notwithstanding what these writers do say , that the catholick lords , and all the catholick lords , were to be thus barbarously dealt with : yet we shall find that this is a great mistake in matter of fact also . the confession of thomas winter ( if they had read it ) would have informed them otherwise ; for , whilst we were in the vault , we discoursed , saith he , what lords we should save from the parliament ; which was first agreed in general ; as many as we could that were catholicks , or so disposed : but after we descended to particulars . and sir everard digby doth give a clear account of this matter ; i dare not , saith he , take that course i could , to make it appear less odious ; for divers were to have been brought out of the danger , which now would rather hurt them than otherwise . i do not think there would have been three worth saving that should have been lost . to this purpose one of them that was privy to it took the way of writing to the lord monteagle . other lords , as the hour drew on , might be admonished of it , or called off ( as an author of theirs saith they were to be ) ; or perhaps such a kind of letter might have been thought of also , as the author of the catholick apology hath drawn up to serve upon such an occasion ; and which he thinks would certainly have kept the person , to whom it was written , at home . by one , or the other , or the like waies , we see that care was taken to secure all those that would be true , or whom they could presume would be assisting to them . and when this was done , if the author of the catholick apology , that tells us that the catholick noblemen then were not only considerable , but the considerablest of the nation ; the first marquis ( there being at that time no duke but the late king ) the first earl , and the first baron being of that profession ; if after these , and the four other lords he there names , he had filled up the catalogue of all those that were professedly of his religion ( besides what were so disposed ) we might by deducting of three ( according to sir everard's calculation ) have told him the number and quality of the noblemen that were to be saved ; and by doing so , have shewed him that it was so far from being true , that all the catholick lords were to have been destroyed , as he saith , that scarcely one of them would have undergone that fate ; and so it might be a popish plot , and an universal popish plot , without a contradiction or a riddle , notwithstanding what that author hath said thereupon . as for what he there saith , that a plot is looked upon as general , when a good number of the chief of a party are intrigued in the design . i grant that such a plot is general ( if with them men of other states and degrees generally joyn with them in it ) but yet it may be a general plot of a party , and the nobility not be intrigued in it ; and they may be intrigued , and yet it not be known . for what more common then to send a forlorn-hope before , that are willing to venture their lives and fortunes , and who if they perish , perish alone ? what more common than for persons to have such intimations given them of a plot as are sufficient to prepare them ; and again to give such intimations of their consent and approbation , as shall be sufficient to assure the undertakers of their assistance ; such as shall secure the one , if it should happen to be discovered ; and warrant the other to go on with the greater resolution ? what more common than to have a general notice of this , and to be willingly ignorant of the particulars ( as hath been already observed ? ) and so the lords might know of a design in general ; but that this was to be begun by blowing up the parliament-house , it was not necessary they should know ; because they were to be kept out of that danger ; nor fit to know that they might not , if it miscarried , be brought into another . what more ordinary than to raise and joyn contributions , and covertly to convey it , so that it shall serve the cause without hurting themselves ? and though this was not then publickly known , yet afterward their relations and descendents found that it must be by some such secret ways that their estates were broken and impaired ; and i am assured that some of them ( as captain dingly told a relation of his , whom he believed for that reason , and others to be concerned in it ) did smell of gunpowder some years after , if not to this day . and if this may be ( as often it is ) then a good number of the chief of the party might be intrigued in the design , and little knowledg of it come abroad then , or down to us now . the parliament then was to receive a terrible blow , and yet they should not see who hurt them ; for there was no appearance of any stir ; as the person that wrote the letter to the lord monteagle saith . there were indeed store of great horses bought up , and powder , &c. conveyed secretly to their friends ; but at the same time they were wished not to stir , untill they heard further ; as i have shewed from watsons information . it was somewhat strange , that when the roman-catholicks were prepared for tumult , and hardly to be restrained by the jesuits themselves , as garnet in his letters complains ; and were neither then wanting in courage or force , as another saith ; that yet they should be so profoundly quiet about that time ; and that the broils that were in wales in the may before , should be so easily and suddenly hush'd , as not to be observed by the government . but this shewed the diligence and dexterity of those that were concerned , and we have the reason of it : for garnet wrote to the pope that a strict order might come for the staying all commotions of the catholicks here in england , intending to set their whole rest of the romish cause on the powder plot , as faux confessed , and lull us asleep in security in respect of their dissembling quietness and conformity , as sir edward coke saith . the jesuits by the management of gerard , had been the means of bringing watson's treason to light , , and him to the gallows ( as more doth own ) thereby at once revenging themselves upon him for all the stories that he had told of them in print ; and also securing to themselves some respect and reputation from the government for their seeming fidelity : and to this they added all their endeavours to keep things quiet , and themselves by that means free from suspicion . but now that all this was but a piece of art , appears ; ( . ) because all the while , even for twenty months space , garnet kept catesby's practices secret ; which , by his own confession , he did assuredly believe to be of very destructive consequence . ( . ) because by the pope's letters to him it appears , tho care was taken as to general commotions , yet as to particulars it was then said , there needed no prohibition , because what was said about generals would suffice . the meaning of which , will appear from what sir e. digby saith , paper . ( . ) it appears that the commotions in wales were rather hush'd than disheartned , and rather put off than brought to an end . for we find , after the discovery of the powder plot , and the defeating that part of the design , the traitors had an expectation of assistance from wales ; and therefore digby and catesby , &c. did write to garnet that he would go along with them thither , where they might expect help ; and use his interest with theirs to make an insurrection , and to put that fire , which was before cautiously raked up , into an open flame . if we now reflect upon what hath been said in this section , and consider the design it self , which , in the beginning might be managed by few , yet , in the process of it , did require the help of many to take it up , to back and carry it on . if we further consider the persons at first engaged in it ; who were not only men of experience , but also experienced in the same way , and would not venture upon such a design without a sufficient force . if we lastly consider the provisions that were made for such a design ; together with the other circumstances relating to it , it will appear that what the author of the catholick apology saith , viz. that it is impossible that the catholick party should be engaged in it , is so far from being true ; that it may with much greater assurance be affirmed , to be impossible that the catholick party should not have been involved in it . sect . iii. those that fled and suffered for it , were really guilty . the flight of persons upon a charge and accusation , though it is not always a certain sign of guilt , yet is so generally presumed to be so , upon the supposition that he that flies is conscious to himself of being criminal ; that it 's a question always asked upon trial , whether the person fled for it ? but because this is only a general and not an universal mark of guilt , i shall not take the advantage of it , but leave that for another and more certain evidence , which is , good and sufficient testimony . thuanus relates that many were banished or fled upon this account ; and that when some of them were courteously received by dominick wilkes , then governour of calice , and were pittied by him as they were thus forced to an exile ; one of them smartly replied , that is the least part of our grief ; but that which doth afflict us indeed , is that we could not accomplish so brave and good a design . these were so daring as to own and glory in it ; but , on the contrary , the jesuits , gerard and greenwel , when it miscarried , and brought the ill opinion of the world upon them and their society , did disown it , and would neither be said to encourage it or know it , however they might have been pleased with it , if it had succeeded . and therefore it will be necessary to shew that they were really as guilty , though they fled from the persuit of justice , as the others that were taken and suffered by it : but because much of this story will fall in with garnet's , i shall chuse rather to begin with his . that any of the lay-men that suffered upon this account were not really guilty , i think no body undertakes to prove . only more doth offer somewhat to lessen the guilt of sir everard digby , making him to say at his trial , that he was guilty only of concealing the plot , but otherwise he had done and conspired nothing . but this account is partly imperfect , and partly false . sir everard indeed upon his apprehension , did deny , with solemn protestations and execrations , that he was privy to the plot of powder ; but being herein confronted by the testimony of faux , who confessed that sir everard told him when he was at his house , that he was afraid the powder was dank , &c. he at last did acknowledge it , and upon his trial confessed the indictment ; which none of the rest did . by which instance , we may conceive what kind of dealing we are to expect when we come to the case of the persons of their own order , when the jesuits write after this rate about the case of those that are not . for of them also we shall find several concerned ; as father creswell legier jesuit in spain , father baldwin legier in flanders , parsons at rome , garnet provincial in england , gerrard , tesmond [ alias greenway , ] hammond , hall and others , who are known to have dealt and passed through the whole action , as sir edward coke saith . but amongst those , garnet , gerard , tesmond , hammond and hall were more immediately concerned ; and garnet and hall were taken and executed for it . but , notwithstanding , their trial was in the face of the world ; and garnet's at guild-hall in the open court , before five earls , three of the chief judges , and the lord mayor of london ; notwithstanding all the proofs produced , and a fair hearing of whatever the prisoners could say for themselves ; notwithstanding they were tried and cast by a jury of impartial persons , and such as they , nor any else , could have any exception against ; yet they shall be said to suffer as martyrs , and pulverariae conjuraritionis obtentu , upon the pretence of the powder-treason , as one saith : to be accused through envy and malice , and condemned by a very unjust judgment , as saith another . but with how little truth or pretence all this is said , will be evident , if we consider , ( . ) that they knew of this plot in confession at least . this garnet more particularly pleaded for himself , and this is the chief plea insisted upon by his apologists . and to make this plea the more effectual , they speak much of the sacredness and inviolableness of that seal and sacrament ( as they call it ) which ought not to be broken , or the secrets of it betraid for the avoiding of any mischief how great soever , as one saith ; or , the saving christianity from ruine , as saith cath. apol. this ( saith the former ) is of divine right , and if god had not thus secured it , he would be carnifex , & fidem falleret ; he would be a murderer , and breaker of his faith. this garnet did offer in his own behalf , that he was bound to keep the secrets of confessions , &c. and when asked by the earl of nottingham , if one confessed this day to him , that to morrow morning he meant to kill the king with a dagger , if he must conceal it ? answered , that he must conceal it . now , if this be true , what a case is the world in , that when a design is laid to destroy the royal family , the flower of the nobility and gentry , and thousands of persons besides ; a priest shall be obliged more to secrecy upon confession , than to a discovery , notwithstanding all the mischief that shall thereby ensue . a principle so much contrary to the peace of the world and the welfare of mankind , that i am confident if it was turned against themselves they would be the first that should condemn it ; and that if such a plot had been undertaken and carried on against the pope and the whole colledge of cardinals , ( as widdrington hath the case ) to send them out of the world by the like means , ( as this was ) : neither his holiness would have condemnd the confessor if he had discovered it ; or have commended him , if he had concealed it upon this reason , and thought himself obliged to him for his fidelity that way . without doubt they would all say , as garnet at last did — i must needs confess , said he , that the laws made against such concealing are very good and just , for it is not fit the safety of a prince should depend upon any other man's conscience . and if the laws are good that make them guilty of treason , who do ( though upon account of confession ) conceal it , then those that thus do conceal it are far from being innocent , or fit to be inrolled amongst the number of martyrs . but supposing it was only in confession that they had any knowledg of it , yet there are several cases excepted and which it is lawful for them to divulge it in . such a case is heresie ; according to that known verse amongst the casuists , haeresis est crimen , quod nec confessio celat . thus dominicus soto determines , ( who is rigidior custodia sigilli , as bishop andrews saith of him ) such crimes are not to be concealed , but immediatly to be disclosed , quod plurimùm timendum est in crimine haeresis , because there is very much danger in case of heresie . such again is any crime that tends to the damage of a community . such again are all those crimes which are of pernicious consequence in themselves , and that are only in intention , but not committed by the penitent . such again are those where the confession is not by way of contrition , but advice . in these and the like cases the casuists of their own church have accounted it lawful and necessary to disclose them ; and accordingly these secrets of confession have often been divulged ; as hath been shewn by bishop andrews upon this occasion . so far is the author of the catholick apology from speaking truth , when he saith that this sacrament [ of confession ] is of such reverence among us ( unless he mean the jesuits and some late writters ) that we cannot lawfully disclose a secret known by it , though 't were to save christianity from ruin . and so far is dr. stillingfleet from having nothing but confidence , malice , &c. to drive him on , when he saith , their casuists acknowledg , that heresie told in confession may be revealed . but ; further supposing this was told in confession , yet the confessor is to disswade the penitent from it ; ( as the catholick apology at least seems to own , ) and it is to be supposed , that if he is not to be disswaded ; yet , then to divert the mischief , the confessor may and ought to discover , ( for else he leaves the case as he finds it , with respect to the person or persons concerned ) provided , say their casuists , that whilst he discovers the crime , he doth conceal the criminal . now if all this be true , that a secret may be communicated in confession , and the confessor not sin in revealing it ; then what will it signifie that the gunpowder-treason was discovered in confession , if the matter confessed was of that kind as would make it lawful , fit , and necessary to be revealed ? and certainly , next to the saving christianity from ruin , there can scarcely be a greater reason for breaking the seal of that sacrament ( as they call it ) than that a royal family , the nobility ( in great part ) and gentry , &c. of a nation would have bin by one blow destroyed . and yet this was patiently heard , and the penitent not so much as really disswaded . for all that garnet could say was , that he did oblige greenwel to desist , and that he hoped that he had so done : and that he went unto warwick-shire with a purpose to disswade mr. catesby ; though he knew catesby would not come thither till the day after the blow was given ; as hath been before observed . ( . ) but all this while this is far otherwise , it being very notorious that this plot was discovered out of confession to garnet and greenwell , &c. as will appear from the account which garnet himself gives of it , ( as far as he was concerned . ) in which he delivers his mind very uncertainly . sometimes he saith , it was in confession . sometimes , he saith it was out of confession , but it was with relation unto confession ; sometimes it was by way of advice . again , let him be asked , what he thought of greenwell's intention in it ? he saith , that perhaps greenwell had no thoughts of confession , but might discover it to him under a lesser seal and obligation of secrecy . now what can a person more discover himself by , than that in so solemn a thing as confession , and such an extraordinary case as was then revealed unto him , he yet knew not , if we may believe him , what the person confessing did intend , or in what way he himself received it ; whether it was communicated to him as a friend for advice , or as to a confessor for the disburthing of the conscience . but if we further enquire how this was discovered to him , we are still further to seek ; it was first walking in the field , and afterward what they had frequent conference about ; as about the way of doing it , the progress in it , and the course they were to take after the first blow was given . this plainly proves it to be matter of consultation rather than confession ; and that it was rather what he was pleased with , than what he sought to hinder . so that the whole story about greenwel's confession to garnet , and catesby's confession to greenwel , seems to be no other than fabula formalis , a story of garnet's own invention , as he in his private letters doth acknowledge . lastly , if we would understand the case , let us follow him to his death ; and yet there we are at a loss , where he saith , what he knew in particulars , was in confession ; and yet when minded by the recorder , that the king had it under his own hand , that greenway [ or greenwell ] told him of this not as a fault , but by way of consultation , &c. he answered , whatsoever was under his hand was true . to which he added , that inasmuch as he disclosed not the things he knew , he confessed himself justly condemned , &c. from which it appears , that either he thought it was lawful upon good reasons to divulge what he heard in confession , or else what was discovered to him was not in confession . ( . ) but this was so far from being discovered to the jesuits in confession , that it was by them that the consciences of the scrupulous were satisfied : as that of catesby by garnet ; that of bates by greenwell ; that of littleton by hall ; and all of them at holbeach , as far as absolution for the fact could do it , by hammond . that catesby was herein guided by the resolution and opinion of garnet ; both the case he put to him , and the satisfaction that he ( upon the provincial's answer to him ) gave to the rest , of the lawfulness of it , will sufficiently prove . the catholick apology doth say , that nothing is more false than that garnet should determine that the innocent and guilty might lawfully in this plot be destroyed together , if it were for the greater good ; and takes it upon the word of father more and the other apologists , that catesby pretending to go a souldier into the low-countries , did propose only what might be done in a just war , when in blowing up a mine the innocent would suffer as well as the nocent ? it is well he shifts it off to them , since this person of honour knows better , and cannot but be sensible that the records of a nation , and the proceedings of a court of justice in england , are much more to be heeded than a company of partial apologists . but as it is plainly affirm'd all along in the proceedings ; so it is otherwise very evident , that this case was not put by catesby to garnet , nor understood by garnet himself , with respect to any war , or employment , that catesby pretended to have in it , in the netherlands . for ( . ) if it had been so , garnet would most certainly have pleaded after that manner , and not as he did ; i thought , said garnet , it had been an idle question , though afterwards i did verily think , he intended something that was not good ; here is not a word of a war , or of the low-countries , or of his going thither . nay , garnet saith expresly , only mr. catesby asked him in general the question . but ( . ) if this had been the case , and that it was so propounded by catesby , as they would have it , yet what needed so great a privacy , that he should come to garnet by way of secret confession ? since the case , as they now dress it up , is what might be put in any place or company . ( . ) if the case was such what needed catesby to be so solicitous in it ; and after the first resolution of it by garnet to come again upon the same business ? ( . ) especially considering that garnet knew very well , if catesby had put it after that manner , that he was not in earnest ; for there was another reason for his pretence of obtaining a regiment , and going to flanders , as hath been before observed . ( . ) it s a sign that the case was not so put by catesby ; since it is acknowledged by garnet , that he did verily think , that he in that queston intended something that was not good . now how could he well discern so much from thence , if catesby had pretended only scruple of conscience about what he might lawfully do , now he was going to serve in the wars . the question if put after that manner hath in it nothing but what is fair , and gives no reason to suspect any thing that is not good ; and therefore its likely , to avoid the objection that might be made against this way of framing the case , it is that more adds , that garnet discovered that catesby had some great design by frequent converse with him . and that indeed is also true , and it is as true that the case was never so put under the disguise of a war. for lastly , garnet himself doth acknowledg , that catesby in his name and by his authority did satisfie the rest of the lawfulness of the fact. now it cannot be supposed that catesby did not understand garnet , from whose side he never was , as they say ; or that he should abuse his friend that trusted him above all the rest , from the knowledg and experience he had of him . it 's certain that when rookwood made it a matter of conscience to take away so much blood , catesby replied , that he was resolved and that by good authority ( as coming from the superior of the jesuits ) that in conscience it might be done , yea though it were with the destruction of many innocents , rather than that the action should quail . in like manner was keys satisfied . so sir everard digby doth say ; for my keeping it secret , it was caused by certain belief that those which were best able to judge of the lawfulness of it , had been acquainted with it , and given way unto it . and of this we have a clear proof from him . for whereas there was a breve obtained from the pope by garnet , for quieting some broils amongst the papists in wales , in may. . ( or rather upon the pretence of such broils , as eudaemon would have it ) which some now would make us believe were to forbid all insurrections and conspiracies whatsoever , and which it seems some did then so understand ; we are told the meaning of it , in sir everard's papers , who writes thus : before i knew any thing of this plot , i did ask mr. farmer [ i.e. garnet ] what the meaning of the pope's brief was ; he told me that they were not ( meaning the priests ) to undertake or procure stirs : but yet they would not hinder any , neither was it the pope's mind they should , that should be undertaken for catholick good. and he presently adds , this answer with mr. catesby's proceedings with him and me , gave me absolute beliefe that the matter in general was approved , though every particular was not known : by which means he came to so great satisfaction in it , that he saith , i could give unanswerable reasons for the good this would have done the catholick cause . but garnet was not alone ( though his opinion and judgment in the case was of greatest authority ) for others also did follow him in the same practice ; so greenwel , ( whose true name was tesmond , (a) but who abroad went under the name of beaumont ) (b) did satisfie bates ( mr. catesby's servant ) when he feard the unlawfulness of the action , assuring him that it was no offence to conceal it , nor sin to do it for a good cause . (c) they tell us (d) that bates recanted of this information ( for it was he that accused greenwel . ) but ( . ) that is no credit to them ; for in that letter , which he is said to have written to his confessor , he recants also that he had seen greenwel and garnet , which he doth there declare to be true in it self (e) . ( . ) this report was spread of him , at the first , when all could bear witness of the falsness of it ; he not recanting to , nor at his death (f) so gerard did absolve and give the sacrament to the five first of the conspirators . the author of the catholick apology (g) doth say that he did deny both by a publick writing in which he called god to witness , that he knew not of the plot , no not so much as in confession ; and also upon oath at rome when examined by the general of his order . he did also saith another appeal to his familiar friend sir everard digby . but in confutation of this , we have the confession of faux and thomas winter , the only survivers of the five that did thus receive the sacrament of gerard , and were absolved by him : whom though they did deny at the first to name , yet did afterward accuse him of it ; and that he was thus charged by some , sir everard saith , he was told . as for his appeal to sir everard , he knew that he might do it with safety and confidence , since that gentleman had again and again satisfied them , that he would not confess his knowledg of any priest , nor of him above any . and if he could work thus upon another person to protest and deny , even to the death , it may well be supposed that he himself was not without those principles which be had furnished another with ; nor would be wanting in the use of them , when his own life and reputation , and the honour of his religion was concerned to have it remain a secret. and this also is no new thing ; for we find fitz-herbert taking the same course for his own vindication , in a charge of the like nature . hammond the jesuit is another , whom we find concerned in this capacity , who did absolve the conspirators at the house of rob. winter , when they were in actual rebellion : and for which the apologist hath nothing else to say , but who can tell whether hammond did not oblige them to lay down their arms before he did absolve them ; or whether they did not bring such arguments for continuing in them , as might render it probable , and then he was bound to absolve them ? but as to the former , it is certainly otherwise ; for they not only continued in the same posture of rebellion after absolution , which they were in before ; but also hammond advised henry morgan to defend the cause to the utmost before he absolved him . which is further confirmed by what stephen littleton did say ; who when asked whether he was absolv'd for the fact , or had his conscience satisfied by any about it , viz. at that time ; answered , that he would rather dye than reveal the secrets of that matter . which doth imply that he had bin thus absolved , and was confirmed . as to the latter , viz. the doctrine of a probable opinion , it serves rather to condemn than excuse them ; for if the opinion of a doctor , or their own ( and the good of the cause shall serve to procure both ) may make an opinion probable , then jac. clemen s , and ravilliac , and all the regicides in the world , may be defended , and defend themselves . but yet , even this will not salve the reputation of hammond ; for rookwood believed his concealment of this treason to be a sin , and confessed it so to him : but he absolved him from all his sins notwithstanding , without taking notice of this particular . rookwood thought it to be unlawful , and yet hammond absolved him , as if he never had so thought . another of the jesuits is hall , or oldcorn , who was privy to it , and did satisfie humphry littleton , that did begin to suspect the lawfulness of the plot , and to think god was not pleased with it from the disaster catesby , &c. met with ; but hall told him that we must not judg the cause by the event , and gave him several instances to confirm it . this humphry littelton did confess . but saith the apologist , he did at his execution beg pardon of hall for it . but if he did , he must ask his pardon for what was true ; for hall himself in the substance of it did confess what littelton accused him of . but how could that be , that he should beg pardon of him at the place of execution ; when , though they suffered the same day at worcester , yet not at the same time , and littelton was dead before hall came thither . . the jesuits did not only satisfie the consciences of others and absolve them ; but also were parties in the treason themselves . i shall not here insist upon what smith , the bishop of chalcedon said of gerard , that he boasted that he had largely sweat with working in the mine ; because i find it not upon record . but there are several things laid to their charge that will sufficiently prove , that they were actually concerned in it . as , ( . ) we find that at the first beginning they were present at their most private consultations ; and so intimate in that juncture was gerard with catesby , that he lodged with him in percy 's house , as faux confessed . ( ) we find that some of them administred the oath of secrecy to the conspirators ; so gerard to catesby , &c. and greenwel to bates . ( . ) they were also busie in buying up store of horses and arms ; and gerard was more particularly imployed herein , as he had skill , and pretended to teach the riding of the great horse . ( . ) that they had frequent consultations about it ; as garnet with catesby and tresham about the strength of the catholicks : greenwel with garnet about a protector . and garnet , gerard and greenwel with sir everard digby , &c. for they seem to be the three whom sir everard is so careful to conceal ; and whom he therefore is so careful to conceal , because of some particular charge that might be brought against them , for what was said or done when together with him ; as may be collected from his papers , ( . ) when the conspirators were in arms , greenwel came to them from garnet , and so had garnet come likewise , but for fear his order might irreparably suffer by his appearance . greenwel went from them to raise a party and make an insurrection . and hammond continued with them . now if to satisfie the scrupulous and absolve the guilty , and to oblige to secrecy ; if consulting , advising , assisting , and accompanying with the traitors will bring the priests into the number ; then they will be guilty . and it s not all their own declarations , or apologies written by others on their behalf , will make them innocent , as long as such a charge remains upon record against them . it is no wonder then , that garnet after all his confidence , should profess that he would give all the world to clear his innocency ; and that he that hoped at the first to escape for want of proof ; should have nothing to say for himself , when he was overwhelmed , as he said , with so great a cloud of witnesses . from which evidence , as he did at last confess , what they could from other proof charge upon him ; so from his own confession given under his hand , he was , when he would have stray'd from the path of truth at his death , forced into it again by the admonition of the recorder then present . for a little to palliate his case and clear himself , he said , that what he knew in particulars was in confession , which was contrary to what he before had confessed in four points ; as the recorder then shewed ; and how he could thus equivocate or worse , and yet behave himself like a faithful servant of jesus christ at his death , as the author of the catholick apology saith , all mankind , but themselves , cannot , i believe , understand . sect . iv. this conspiracy was purely upon the account of religion . as our adversaries before have done what they could to cast off the odium of this conspiracy from the party in general , and from the jesuits in particular , by making a few gentlemen only and their dependents concerned in it : so they use as much art to clear their religion from the guilt of it ; being sensible that if this be found faulty , the others are not to be defended , but the whole party must fall under censure . therefore they labour might and main to acquit themselves well herein , and tell us that as these persons were few in number , so they did proceed upon discontent , and not upon the score of religion . sometimes they plead , the king did before his coming into england give them good hopes of the exercise of their religion , which when deceived in , they were exasperated . sometimes their persecutions were so great , that they almost hated life it self for their sake . or as the author of the catholick apology words it ; that which drove these gentlemen into this wickedness , was the want of christian patience , or a despair of any ease by this king from queen elizabeth's cruel and horrid laws , &c. now supposing ( . ) that thus it was , that the king had before promised favour to them , and instead of that had permitted the horrid and cruel laws , as he calls them , to have their course ; is this sufficient to excuse their cursed design , or to prove that religion was not concerned in it ? was it upon any other account ( if we grant this ) than religion , when they hoped for toleration ; and was it not religion that put them upon rebellion , because they had not that toleration ? but ( . ) indeed there was no such reason for their conspiracy ; for they had no such assurances from the king. such a report was spread abroad by themselves , as watson doth acknowledge ; but with what truth will appear not only from watson's confession , who two days before his death protested upon his soul to the earl of northampton , that he could never draw the smallest comfort from him in those degrees ; but also from watson's treason , who would never have attempted that , if he had been satisfied of the king 's good intentions towards those of his religion . it is not unlikely but that the king , who after his coming in did receive them freely and favourably , might before treat them after the same manner ; but how far it was from any promise , watson further declares , i could never draw more from the king , saith he , than that he would have the catholicks apprehend , that as he was a stranger to this state , so till he under stood in all points how those matters stood , he would not promise favour any way but how far the king was from affording them any such favours , as they pretend , is further declared in a memorandum in the star-chamber ; for some of the puritans having spread a rumour , that the king intended to grant a toleration to papists , the lords severally declared , how the king was discontented with the said false rumour , and had made but the day before a protestation to them , that he never intended it , and that he would spend the last drop of blood in his body before he would do it , and prayed that before any of his issue should maintain any other religion than what he truly professed and maintained , that god would take them out of the world. as false also , and less ground is there for that of their persecution . for he was so far from it that he gave honour at his first coming to many of them , and did admit all without distinction to his presence upon just occasion of access , as the earl of northampton shews ; and took away the mulcts that were laid upon them . and in his first speech in parliament mar. . the king did make a proposal of clearing the laws of such interpretations as might tend to the hurt of the innocent as well as the guilty , as he saith ; which speech was made after the treason of watson was discovered ; that not provoking the king to change his behaviour toward any other of them than those that were confederates in it . so that if we truly enquire into the case , unless lenity and favour is persecution , we shall hardly find what may be so called , and so much indeed doth suarez say ; that king james's kindnesses ( inasmuch as they proceeded from political reasons ) may be well esteemed part of their persecution . but ( . ) there could be no such reason for this conspiracy ; for they had laid the foundation of it , and were carrying it on before the king was settled in his throne . this watson confess'd ; and it s also manifest ; for christopher wright was dispatched into spain to engage that kings assistance immediatly upon queen elizabeths death , and the powder treason it self was formed in the first year of king james's reign . we see then they had no such provocation given them as is pretended , and that if they had , it doth not at all infer that they engaged upon this design not upon the account of religion . but if we should grant that they had such a provocation , and that the provocation and religion did not go together in it : yet we have other reasons to shew , that it was upon a religious account that this was undertaken , and that i shall make evident , ( . ) from the principles which they went upon . ( . ) from their own declaration . from their principles . as , ( . ) they held that an heretical prince might and ought to be deposed ; so faux said he was moved to this ; because the king was not his lawful sovereign , or the anointed of god , in respect he was an heretick . ( . ) that the pope had sufficient power , by vertue of his supremacy , to depose such ; this was catesbye's reason , for saith he , if the popes breves were of force to keep him [ king james ] out , they are also of no less authority to thrust him out . ( . ) that it was lawful for the good of the church , and the furtherance of the catholick cause to kill and to destroy ; this was the reason upon which catesby and all the rest were satisfied ; and from whence sir everard did with a great confidence affirm , i could give unanswerable reasons for the good that this would have done for the catholick cause . which it seems he was furnished with from a latin book that he met with , perhaps delrio . if these and the like be not principles of their religion , then we are to seek for them ; and if these are the principlss upon which they were satisfied , then it was the cause of religion that they fought in . ( . ) but if this will not do , let us attend to their own declarations . i was moved hereunto , said faux , only for religion and conscience sake , the king not being my lawful soveraign , &c. so sir everard digby , no other cause drew me to hazard my fortune and life , but zeal to gods religion . from all which we have reason to say with king james , that it cannot be denied , that it was the only blind superstition of their errors in religion , that led them to this desperate device . and must think the author of the catholick apology let fall a great truth , though against his own mind , that when dr. stillingfleet had asserted , that the plotters motives were from their religion : doth reply , ' t is as true that the plot had its rise from clem. . breves . for so it had in a great measure , as i have before shewed . sect . v. they never gave to the world any real and good satisfaction of their abhorrency of this bloody design . the catholick apology doth tell us , that cardinal bellarmin doth express the treason , not only by the name of horrid , but also adds , i excuse not the fact , i abominate king-killing , i detest conspiracies . and presently adds of his own , did ever writer , whether priest or lay-man , english-man or stranger , own the real plotters not to be villains ? but the question is , first , who are those he calls real plotters ? not the jesuits , or hardly catesby , whom they do so much applaud , not only for his parts but his piety . again , what doth he mean by owning the real plotters to be villains ? is it by calling them by hard names ? is it that they do abominate the thing in words of the highest detestation ? all this may be , and hath been done by more than bellarmin or this author , and yet it is not good satisfaction . is it by writing apologies and supplications ? that was done in and , just whilst the powder-treason was in its agitation . how shall we give credit to them ? when the principles these persons went upon were never disowned to the world , upon any sufficient authority ; and the persons that escaped from publick justice , were cherished , and those that suffered by it to this day , honoured . they can hardly forbear extolling even the chief of the conspirators [ catesby ] to the heavens , as a man very eminent for great endowments of mind , and an incredible sweetness of temper . nay , the whole pack of them , setting aside this business , were persons of very pious minds and consciences . but when they come to the jesuites , they spare no words nor rhetorick to describe their merits , and not contented with proclaiming their innocency , they will canonize them for saints , and enrol them in their catalogue of martyrs . thus we find they did quickly by garnet , who in their college at rome had his picture set up with verus christi martyr , and his name is still with oldcorn ( i. e. hall ) to be seen in their catalogues of martyrs ; which may be done , and is , without that great formality of the church , which the catholick apology doth speak of , and thinks to controul widdrington's information by . but this is not enough , for at their death are several miracles pretended to be wrought , as they would have us believe : for oldcorn's bowels , saith the legend , burnt sixteen days togegether , which answered the number of years that he laboured in propagating their religion in england . and garnet was no sooner dead , but presently his face must be pictured to the very life by a drop of blood that fell upon a straw . though those that did then see it ( which was about weeks after garnets execution ) could not see much in it like the face of a man without a great power of fancy , and much less any thing like the face of garnet more than that of another . the cath. apology indeed doth tell us , that it fell in the form of a face so exactly alike , that all men knew it that had ever seen him . but we are to receive that upon the same credit as what he further saith , that he was quartered for an article of faith. but there was a further wonder in it ; for this straw which had before but a little touch of a beard , and that had eyes and features hardly to be discerned , by that time it was presented to the spanish embassadour , 〈…〉 it grew to greater perfection ; and from a bare head , in some time after , it had its head encircled with a glorious crown ; as it is described by themselves . it is no wonder then , that this straw which could work so great a change in it self , should also propagate its kind ; for within a while many others were to be seen . what shall we say more , if the grass where garnet and oldcorn last set their feet in mr. abington's house , grew up into the exact shape of an imperial crown , and remain'd so as not to be trod●● down by the feet of those that came thither , or eat up by the cattle , as an author of theirs saith ? what if there was a spring of oyl broke forth suddenly in the place where garnet was executed ? as father david at ypres did affirm . what if gerard did escape by garnets merits , as he himself did declare . after all this who but an heretick , can believe otherwise than that he was innocent , and died a martyr , and is now a saint ? that it was a meritorious act to get a straw or a splinter of his bones , and keep them for reliques ? and that its lawful to pray , as it s said they of lovain did , sancte henrice ora pro nobis . but now what if after all this adoe , garnet should confess that he sinned , what if he should say ( as he didin his this letter to mrs. vaux ) that he died for treason and not for religion ? then he was not innocent , not a martyr , and whether a saint or no , another world must tell us . then also we may admit the story of the straw and others explication of it ; who said , that it was no wonder to find his face in blood , who was a man that did thirst after it . this is what thuanus , as well as widdrington , report , and i shall end with a remarque that the former hath upon it ; so perilous a thing is it in these times to say such things for the honour of another , as do exceed belief and the common course of nature ; for they may presently be retorted to his disparagement . this is the honour that they have done to the dead , and they were not without shewing favour to the living and those that made their escape , who were never called to account for it by the pope , much less punished for so scandalous and enormous business , as king james saith . two of these greenwel and gerard lived in rome ; the one greenwel , [ i. e. tesmond ] the popes paenitentiary ; and the other gerard , a confessor at saint peters in rome , as widdrington reports . but here the author of the catholick apology thinks he hath the advantage of dr. stillingfleet , from what he relates of these two persons from widdrington ; for he saith the pope's paenitentiary and confessor at st. peter's are but different names for the same thing . but if it was a mistake it is to err with one of their own church ; viz. widdrington ( otherwise called preston ) who was not only of their communion , but also a priest , as i have heard from such as knew him in the clinck ; and i find in a ms , now in my possession , that he was one of the thirty priests that were in prison here in england , an. . but what if after that stir made in this matter , they prove to be different offices , then greenwel might be the pope's penitentiary , and gerard a confessor some while in st. peter's ; and the doctor not be ignorant , notwithstanding all that honourable person hath said . for how meanly soever he describes or indeed may think of it , i find the pope's penitentiary is an office of respect , and is called by that name , because it s called the court of penitents , but properly is the court of conscience where he officiates ; this office is usually deputed to a cardinal , who is major paenitentiarius , under whom are many subordinate . this is a stated office , and what such a person ( as greenwel ) might be employed in , as subordinate , at least . but gerard's office was occasional , and what , tho he lived in the english colledg at rome , he might very well perform . for widdrington saith , that many had seen him publickly hearing confessions at st. peter's . it is not that these are high and mighty preferments , which those persons were advanced to , that made the doctor revive this story , ( though they are honourable enough amongst them ) but that from thence we may see how little they did discourage such proceedings , as those jesuits were here in england concerned in , when such as were equally engaged with those that suffered , should live quietly and respectfully within rome it self , and under the very eye of his holiness . from all which we may well say with king james , what a large liberty is by this doctrine left to church-men , to hatch or foster any treasonable attempts against princes , i leave it to your [ speaking to monarchs , &c. ] consideration , since do what they will , they are accountable to none of us : nay all their treasonable practices must be works of piety , and they being justly punished for the same , must be presently inrolled in the list of martyrs and saints , &c. if this be their practice , that traitors are thus excused and protected ; and the principles upon which they acted not recalled or censured ; we have little reason to think the world secured against practices of the like kind , when time shall serve and the necessity of things , in their estimation , so requires . and we shall not then need to vindicate the history of the powder-treason ( as we now are forced to do ) since we shall then see they will repeat it ( mutatis mutandis ) and we can never hope to be freed from attempts of that kind , till they quit their principles , and the romish church come to be reformed ; which will more please us than the destruction of it , and what is by all good protestants heartily prayed for . i should now have concluded , but that i find there are some that do make use of the case and circumstances of the gunpowder-treason to overthrow the belief that is given to the present plot , and by comparing one with another , one doth not question , as he saith , but to convince all those whose hearts are not of pharaoh's temper , and whom the violence of passion has not totally deprived of all exercise of reason , that there is no truth in the thing , nor reason to believe any of the evidence we have for it . now because of the relation which , this way that they have taken , hath to the design that i have pursued in this treatise ; i shall add somewhat by way of answer to it , and in doing so , . i shall consider the case as laid down by them . . i shall shew that there is not so much difference betwixt plot and plot , betwixt the criminals then and conspirators now , as there is an agreement ; which i shall do by my making a parallel betwixt the one and the other . . i shall shew the ground of that difference which is betwixt them ; and how that what hath been said in their way of comparison , to invalidate the discovery made of the present plot , serves little to the purpose it was produced for . there are four things , which the foresaid author doth collect from the history of the powder treason . . there was then visible the overt act of barrels of powder laid in the place . . there was a flight of some of the conspirators , and their resistance at their taking . . those that were executed , did all confess the fact at the time of execution . . all persons indifferently , both papists and protestants , forreigners and natives believed the thing , &c. and from this he doth proceed to shew , that all things in the present conspiracy run counter to every particular in that . when he begins to discourse upon the first , he saith , this hainous plot is built upon the bare testimony of the swearers , and that there is not any matter of fact visible and apparent , that has any proper tendency , or relation to a conspiracy for destroying the king , and levying of war. indeed he cannot deny , but that there are two things , which if they could be proved to be done by them , as well as it is manifest that such things were , would be just matter of accusation ; and they are the death of sir edmonbury godfry , and the consult : but he can put off these ( he thinks ) with a wet finger ; and if this be done , leaves all the world to challenge them further with any thing of that nature . let not the death of sir edmond be urged , saith he , as matter of fact , because the unfortunate end of that gentleman , as to the true manner of it , is a mystery yet unreveal'd , and is laid at the papists door , just as antichrist is charged upon the pope . but is the death of that gentleman so easily to be put up ? or is it indeed a mystery yet unrevealed ? was it not plainly made out that this gentleman was murdered , and that he could not both strangle and thrust himself through ? and was it not so revealed that bedlow , that was to have been one of the assasinates , and did see his body when dead , did of his own accord confess it ? and prance that had an hand in his death did upon his apprehension also acknowledg it ? and was it not so reveal'd that some fled for it , and others that were taken , after an open trial according to course at law , were executed for it ? and shall it be still a mystery unrevealed ? but saith he , there are few unbiassed and discerning men , that are convinced , that these poor creatures , that suffered upon that account , were truly guilty . what in the mean while doth he make of the judges and the jury , were they neither unbiassed nor discerning ? or shall they be neither , who do believe them to have been guilty upon the same evidence which the court was then satisfied with ? but what should hinder unbiassed and discerning men from being convinced ? was there reason to think the matter of the evidence not to be sufficient , or the persons giving it not to be of sufficient credit ? let us consider the case , and that will best inform us . the persons were such as were either actually engaged , or invited so to be ; that either helped to do it , or did see it when done : both , though not known to one another , concurring , as far as they were concerned , in the same circumstances , as to the person murdered , the posture of his body , the place where it was , and the way in which it was to be disposed of , &c. and as they did not vary from one another , so not from themselves , in above one point , that the adversaries ( as i remember ) can after all their diligent search find them out in , ( if that be true too ) and all this fortified by several collateral and concurring testimonies . whilst in the mean time , the prisoners were manifestly convinced of the contrary ; saying and unsaying , affirming and denying the same things : sometimes berry did know prance as he passed up and down the house only ; at another time he knew him so , as often to drink with him . sometimes he never had such an order , as he had the th and th of october , to suffer no strangers , nor any persons of quality to come into somerset-house ; at another time he had received such orders before . sometimes hill knew not kelly , at another time he owned that he knew him , ( for 't is kelly and not girald that he speaks of more expresly , notwithstanding what an advocate of their saith . ) sometimes , he left the lodgings before sir edmonds death ; at another time it was a week or fortnight after , &c. but the above said author , saith prance , did once disclaim his evidence before king and council : this 't is true he did , but was so little resolute in it , that as soon as he came to newgate he most earnestly begged of captain richardson to go back and assure his majesty , that all he had that day said at council was false ; and that he retracted before for fear of his life , having not a pardon ; or if he had , knowing that he should never enjoy it , because of the attempts he might expect to be made upon him ; or if both , that however he should lose his trade & livelihood : these , together with his perswasion that it was lawful to say or swear any thing in his way of religion , did induce him to it . but however he is not rationally to be believed , saith the author , until he shall in the same circumstance of dying , declare their guilt , in which they so solemnly declared their innocency . by which way of arguing no man can ever dy with a lye in his mouth ; nor is any person or company of men to be believed , in whatever they affirm against such an one , or upon what grounds soever they affirm it , unless they are , or till they come to be in the same circumstances with him , that did thus deny it ; which is very absurd to say . but to put it so far out of question , we are not without this kind of evidence also ; for prance himself , when his life was despair'd of , continued to affirm the truth of whatever he at first deposed , and as soon as he was recovered , did own it afresh before the king and council . and bedlow upon his death-bed did declare upon the faith of a dying man , and as he hoped for salvation , that he had wronged no man by his testimony , and what ever he had testified concerning the plot , was true . here is then the affirmation of persons , not concerned to take away the life of those men , against their denial , who were concerned to save their own lives ; and the evidence of persons declaring their guilt in the same circumstance of dying , in which the others did so solemnly declare their innocence . and lastly , here is the affirmation of such persons , who had no principles of religion to lead them thus to affirm , against them , whose principles did encourage them thus to deny . but , saith the above cited authour , berry at the same time [ of his death ] declared himself both innocent and a protestant . that persons may declare themselves protestants whilst they are papists , is not what we are at this time a day ignorant of ; and of which we have store of instances : and that professed protestants may deny at their death those crimes which they are justly charged with and condemned for , is what we need not the help of an author of theirs to shew us precedents in ; for 't is what we freely confess . but that our religion should be the worse for it , or that the protestant doctrine is guilty of it , as he would have it , needs more than his bare affirmation to gain credit and belief ; when we have no such thing as a dispensation before-hand or absolution after it , without detestation , &c , to befriend us . now whether berry did declare himself a protestant , and deny the fact upon their principles ; or whether he did deny the fact upon no principles , is one in effect as to the present case : but that he did deny what he knew to be true , besides the evidence otherwise against him , we have no little reason to think from his silence at his death , when he said not any thing , either in asserting his innocence as to the murder of sir edmund , neither as to the religion he died in ; as one that was present , and not a little concerned to observe , doth affirm . it looks very odd that he should profess so much remorse for his dissimulation in his religion , and so much innocency in the point he was condemned for ; and yet at his execution , should not clear himself , but pass by both as if he had not bin concerned . this is so irreconcileable either to his sincerity in the one , or innocency in the other , that it was foreseen ; and therefore as a speech was prepared for hill , before his death , so another is made for berry after it . he then declared himself both innocent and a protestant , saith one : he absolutely denied at the very gallows , the fact : nay , as the cart was drawing away , he lifted up his hands , and said , as i am innocent , so receive my soul , o jesus ; as another telleth us . and yet he spoke not one word to either . now what reason have we to believe his silence beyond others protestations at their death ? and yet some mens protestations of that kind are no more to be believed by this author , ( as that of the lord castlehaven's , which he mentions ) than we believe those of hill and green. so far then we are not without reason to convince us , that these persons were some of sir edmund's true murderers . but then if we shall add to this , the strange circumstances of prance's apprehension , and the description bedlow gave of such a person before it . if we consider what sir edmond himself did foretell about his being the first martyr ; and the notice that dugdale gave of his death , two days before it was known at london what became of him , and many other circumstances which might easily be collected ; we have good marks to find out the murtherers by , and the door , at which his death is to be laid . the second thing owned by the abovesaid author for an overt act , is the consult in april ( not the th as he mistakes ) but that he would have to be only a triennial meeting in course . but then what needed so great secresie as to time and place , and such care to be taken not to hasten to london long before the time , nor to appear much about the town till the meeting be over , lest occasion should be given to suspect the design , which the letter doth speak of ? then , how came it to pass , that there were other consults , and that mr. ireland should take such a journey , as from stafford-shire to london , by post in august , to be present at it ; as besides the then proof , mr. jennison doth affirm , and his own hand hath made evident ? or if the register spoken of , was only about consults for that purpose , why was not that book produced , as desired , for their vindication ? what other overt acts there were , as coleman's letters , seals for commissions ( upon which whitebread only answered , the taking them out of his chamber was more than they had power to do ) and the like , i shall not further search after , but leave it to what is , and will be further made publick by authority . but what hath been said already is sufficient to shew , how little truth there is in what the abovesaid author doth fantastically affirm , viz. that the charge of the plot is only supported by the breath of the witnesses coined into oaths . . he saith that in the powder-treason there was the flight of some of the conspirators , and the resistance at their taking . but not one person in this pretended conspiracy did either fly , or abscond ( except only the priests , who were obnoxious to the law for their priesthood ) nay the greatest part of them , upon the first rumour of their accusation , came in and render'd themselves . but i deny , ( ) that its an undoubted mark of a person's innocency , that he did not fly when a treason was discovered , and he had an opportunity of making his escape . for the case may be , that he may not be charged with it , and then if he flys he brings it upon himself . so tresham in the powder-treason still continued about the court , that he might thereby seem wholly free and innocent ; as an author above quoted observes . ( . ) he may stay and yet be guilty , upon a presumption that the charge may not be made good , and he may escape for want of proof , as garnet hoped . ( . ) he may stay and yet be guilty , as presuming , that though the charge be made good ; yet he hath persons of power and interest great enough to interpose betwixt him and danger . and therefore rather than be declared guilty by flight , or betray and discredit his cause , or distrust his friends , he may choose to stay , though he be no more innocent than those that fly . but after all , is it not possible that not one should be found , whose guilt , or fear did prevail upon him to fly and secure himself , &c. as he saith it is not ? he grants the priests did fly ; but it was because they were obnoxious to the law for their priesthood . if that was the reason , then there had been no priest but what would have fled ; those that were not charged with this treason , as well as those that were : for , setting aside this new charge , all as priests are alike obnoxious ; and yet we find all did not alike fly . but were there none but priests that fled , then where are those laymen that were concerned in the charge of sir edmund's murther , and that are so often mentioned in the tryals ? what are become of many persons whom it is not for me to name , but are known to have resided beyond seas , ever since the examination into this business ? now if what one of themselves saith be true , that flight is a sign of guilt , then these are self-condemned , that put it upon this issue , and say that the stoutest man , had he been guilty , would have fled upon such warning : but the most timerous of nature did not fly , because he was innocent . . he saith , those that were executed for the powder-treason , did all confess the fact at the time of execution : whereas those that have been executed for this plot have at their death 's denied the fact , and resisted all temptations of pardon , and reward , &c. that the traytors in the powder-treason did confess the fact , we readily own ; if they mean thereby the treason , as it was at first hatched : but that they did thus confess , and not persist in the protestation of their innocency to the death , was not because their consciences would not dispense with it , or their religion not permit them to be obstinate and for swear themselves , ( as a late author of theirs would have us believe ) but for other reasons ; as i have shewed at large before * . for i question , not but that as faux did lay the blame at first wholly upon himself : so he would have sworn to it also , if it had not been the torture that he stood more in awe of , than his conscience . it was upon this score and not his religion , as the author of the compendium doth suppose , that the lords laught at his huffing and bravadoes , since otherwise they would rather have put him to his oath , than to the rack , to have extorted a confession from him ; and therefore to make use of his case amongst others , as the abovesaid author doth , to oppose to the case of the persons that were lately executed , and that denied the fact at their execution , is nothing to the purpose . before their case then will be of use to the vindication of these , now , they must prove that the whole plot was at that time confessed by the conspirators , that they never denied any thing which they were upon oath charged with , and that they had no principles to warrant them if they did . but the contrary to these is manifest , as hath been already shewed , and so can do them little service . without doubt had the traytors then had as much power to conceal the whole , as they did the greatest part of it , and could as well have kept to themselves what they did confess , as well as what they did not , we had been little the wiser . they then were of the same religion , & acted upon the same principles as the others now ; and therefore that they then did confess , and these did not , was because their circumstances were different , and not because they were guilty , and these were innocent . for if the other had been in these mens condition , i do not doubt but they would as obstinately have denied ; and if these had been in their condition , i as little doubt but that they would have confessed according as they did then . the others denied , as long as denial would do them good , and till they saw it could not be denied , having clear proof against them : and these did deny and obstinately persist so to do , for want of other proof than the oaths of others ; and so their denial being opposed to the others affirming , their forswearing it to the other oaths , their dying words to the others that were to live , they did not question but the world would believe they had truth on their side . and when the principles and honour of their religion , their own credit , and safety of their friends , and the fear of damnation to boot ( which often prevails with men more then the hopes of a present reward ) do engage them ; it 's not impossible that they should deny , and dye in the denial of what is true . . the abovesaid author adds , that all persons indifferently , both papists and protestants , &c. believed the thing [ the powder-treason ] and no soul living did deny it . deny it ; how could they , since there was powder , and match discovered , and faux was apprehended upon the place ? deny it how could they , since some of the traytors were actually killed , or taken in an insurrection ; and those that were taken did confess it more or less ? but what the conspirators would have done themselves , and what others also of the same perswasion would have said , if there had been nothing , but the oaths of witnesses against them , we must go to their principles and practice to conjecture . but though they could not deny the matter of fact , yet they have done what they could towards it ; for some tell us , as hath been shewed , that cecil ( to ruin the party ) drew those fiery men in by his subtile tricks and artifice . others , that this desperate attempt seemed rather of a private kindred or acquaintance , than of any religion . nay they have the confidence to say , that the true priests and catholicks of england knew them [ the traytors ] not to be papists &c. and they were never frequenters of catholick sacraments with any priest , &c. if men will dare to say these things , when their own writings are against them , and when we read there of the great endearedness 'twixt catesby's family and the jesuits , 'twixt catesby and garnet , twixt sir everard and gerard , &c. they may as well deny the whole , and we may thereby know what they would do if they had not matter of fact , and overt acts too visibly and apparently in their way . if they will say things so notoriously and evidently false , what may we not expect when a plot is made out purely by the dint of swearing ? ( as one doth phrase it ) : though in our present case there is more then the credulity of people to corroborate that testimony , notwithstanding whatever he is there pleased to say . from what hath been said , we may see how little foundation there is for the opposing the plot of the powder-treason to the late one amongst our selves ; and how little the proceedings and confessions of the conspirators in the former , will serve to clear the innocency of those that suffered in the later . but because they have thus opposed the one to the other , i shall on the otherside , before i conclude , consider how they do agree ; and that we may observe , . as the plots were in prosecution , & before discovery . . in the way by which they were discovered . . in the event , and what happened upon and after discovery . in the first of these , i have the way in part traced out by sir samuel baldwyn , one of his majesties serjeants at law , in mr. ireland's trial , who doth there mention two or three particulars , in which this plot doth resemble that of the powder-treason . and that it doth , in the matter of it , the principal agents concerned in it , the principles which they proceeded upon , and the way in which it was managed , &c. ( . ) there is an agreement in the matter , so saith that worthy person , that horrid design [ of the powder-treason ] was to take away the life of the then king , to subvert the government , to introduce the popish religion , and to destroy the established protestant religion in england ; and so we think our proofs will make it out , that in each of these particulars this design is the same that that was . thus far he . that it was so in that former plot is universally acknowledged ; and that it was so here is what the evidence doth concur in . how far it was to introduce the popish religion , mr colemans letter doth shew , who saith , we have here a mighty work upon our hands , no less than the conversion of three kingdoms , and by that means the utter subduing of a pestilent heresie which has domineer'd over a great part of this northern world a long time ; there was never such hopes of success since the death of our queen mary , as now in our days . and how all this could be done without subverting the government , or how both the one and the other could be done without taking away the life of his majesty , is not easie to be understood . ( . ) there is an agreement in the principal agents concerned in it . the great actors in the powder treason , saith sir samuel , were priests and jesuits , &c. and so are they in this . that chiefly guided and managed by henry garnet , provincial of the jesuits in england ; and the great actor in this design is mr. whitebread , provincial of the same order . ( . ) there is an agreement in the principles which they proceeded upon . as first in general , that any thing is lawful which may serve the cause , and in particular that an heretick prince may be deposed and killed ; that an heretick people may be destroyed ; and that a forreign force , to serve those ends , may be invited over , and introduced . that these were the principles which they in the powder-treason went upon , is evident from the history it self , and what hath been said before * : and they were the same considerations which gave birth and encouragement to the present design , as we may see throughout the trials . this was the ground of staley's displeasure against the king , that he was an heretick ; this was the ground of the other practices against him not only here , but also in ireland . and the subduing the pestilent heresie which domineer'd here , was the great reason of mr. colemans correspondence with the french king's confessor , and of soliciting aid and assistance from thence . ( . ) there is an agreement in the management of both ' ( . ) in point of secresy , obliging one another by oaths and the sacrament . i have shewed that so it was in the powder-treason . * and that it was so here , all the witnesses do maintain . ( . ) in the secret preparations that were made . so it was in the other , as i have shewed * and the like information we have here of moneys , (a) forces , and (b) commissions , &c. ( . ) they agree in the state they were in , and the little provocation that was given them to begin and form such a design . so it was in the powder-treason , when they had not so much as a pretended cause of grief , as k. james in his speech said , but were obliged by him , as i have shewed † . and so it had been here : for whereas by the statute of eliz. the priests might be tried as such , and ought to die for it , yet they at this time have been so mercifully dealt with , as they have been suffered to live amongst us under the danger of the statute , as sir creswel levins observed : and the laity hath been little disturbed by the enforcements of the laws made against them . thus it was in england ; as the parliament in their late address to his majesty , hath abundantly shewed ; and how it was in ireland , a gentleman of that nation gives us an account . ( . ) there is an agreement in the prophecies ( as they would have them accounted ) of the great change that would happen in a short time . so it was before the powder treason , as i have shewed * . and so it was now ; what cardinal barbarin should say of this nature , hath bin deposed before the lord's , and reports of the same kind have been very common at home and abroad , as hundreds can testifie . . as there was an agreement in the state of things before it was discovered ; so there is no little resemblance in the way by which they were discovered . for , was there a letter writ ? so were here papers found of coleman's , and harcourt's . did there some confess then ? so some did here . did some of them fly and abscond for it then ? so they have done here also ; as i have shewed before . . there is great resemblance in the event , and what happened and was done upon and after the discovery . as , ( . ) more was left undiscovered than was discovered . what kind of help the design of the powder-treason required in it self , and what intelligence the state had then of forces , arms , horses and moneys , i have before shewed * . and yet little of any of these was found out ; insomuch as an apologist of theirs doth venture to plead , as to one branch , where was that great sum of money , talk'd of , found ? or , how much of it was confiscated and brought into the kings exchequer ? and so it happened now ; for tho the design could not be carried on without , and information accordingly hath been given of provisions made in that kind ; yet what from the pretences those forces and moneys were raised under ( as we have the account * ) what from the distribution of arms into several hands , without keeping stores and magazines ; what from the timely notice they had to dispose of them ; not so much hath been discovered , but that also an advocate of theirs , doth plead after the like manner as before , there has not been found any ill letter , any commission , any bill of exchange , any mony , any arms , any horses , or any thing else suspitious . with how much tr●●● this is said in all respects , coleman's letters , and arm in some quantities taken , and other particulars , do prove . but yet it must be acknowledged that though much is proved against them , yet more is still undiscovered than discovered . ( . ) there is a great resemblance in the ways taken to fling off what hath been discovered , and to conceal what hath not . as , . by charging it upon others . thus we find them practising in the business of the powder-treason . if it had succeeded , the whole was to have been laid to the charge of the puritans ; and when it did not succeed , they tell us it was the trick of a minister of state , and that the conspirators were not papists , as hath been before declared . and that same method hath been observed now . for if the present design had taken , and the king had been killed ; they had settled some , whom they should pitch the action upon , and intended to lay it upon the presbyterians , as hath been deposed . but since it s now broke forth , and hath not hitherto succeeded , they have taken care to charge as much of it as they can otherwhere . first , there is a sham-plot started , and a design laid to make the presbyterians , or whomsoever they pleased so to call , to be the only conspirators . and because the death of sir edmund-bury , if found upon them , would lend us a great light toward the revealing the plot , and be no little inducement to mankind to believe it , they had thoughts of charging it upon debauched persons , of whom he was a prosecutor . when that was not likely to take , they did endeavour to make the earl of danby the contriver of it . and because that was soon disproved , then , it s said , that his own party did murder him , and laid it upon the papists to make them odious . . there is the like method taken to avoid the charge , by calumniating of authority . so they did in the powder-treason : then the judges were lyars ; the privy-councellors cruel , for ordering garnet , and hall , &c. to be tortured ; ( as they published , but publish'd falsly to the world , as hath been shewed before * . ) and the publick writings , and what was justified to be true by authority , were said to be forged . in like manner have they now proceeded , for they tell us that those that suffered by the sentence of the court were innocent in the judgment of unbiassed and discerning men . that prance was threatned by the lords that went to examine him , and was tortured to make him accuse others . . to avoid or weaken the charge , false reports are raised upon those that amongst themselves do confess . so in the powder-treason we are told that bates and littleton recanted , and that what ever bates accused the rest of was through the hopes of life , as hath been shewed before . * so they have proceeded at this time mnch after the like manner . not to repeat all the stories that they have made , or made use of to impair the credit of the witnesses ; nor to undertake to distinguish betwixt what 's true and what 's false in this matter , i shall only instance in that which is made publick to the world. of this kind was the design which was laid to charge oates with sodomy , and him and bedlow with a conspiracy against the lord treasurer . and , which is somewhat a kin to this , the tampering with bedlow , to recall what he had said , or to make him easie in what he should say against the great conspirators ; that so they might either make him theirs , or render him less able to hurt them , when they could accuse him of listning to such proposals . . they did endeavour to disguise and conceal it , by being obstinate when apprehended . this hath been before discoursed of with respect to the gunpowder-treason * when they denied whatever could be denied , and equivocated in what was not to be denied , even to the death . and thus it was in this present plot. without doubt had coleman's letters not been taken , all the correspondence that was maintained in that way betwixt him and the french king's confessor , would as obstinatly be denied , as it was by him , that any such was continued after , which was the year the last of those letters was dated in . or had not the letter been found amongst harcourt's papers , which mentions the consult april th , they would sooner have denied the thing , than have rack'd their wit to have put it upon the score of a triennial meeting . things that were not to be denied , 't is no wonder if they do confess ; but things that depend upon yea and no , 't is no wonder that they do deny . this hall and garnet did practise , and the same liberty that they took , 't is likely the persons of late amongst us also did use , when they have the same principles , to allow it . from what hath been said we see , that the powder-treason and this present plot do agree in far more circumstances than they differ , and those that they differ in are not so great but they are capable of an easie accommodation . and this leads me to the . general . to shew the ground of that difference which is betwixt plot and plot , criminals and criminals . and the great instance is , the confession of the one , and denial of the other . this an author of theirs doth triumph in ; i challenge , saith he , all mankind to assign a cause of this difference with the least colour of reason and humanity . but , as i have before said * , he must first prove that the conspirators then did confess ingenuously , candidly and freely . for if they confess'd what they could not deny ; if they again would have denied what they had confessed ; if , further , they did often equivocate when they did pretend to confess ; if , lastly , they did deny and conceal more of what they knew , then they did confess and discover , as i have made it evident they did * : then garnets confession is equal to whitebread's denial ; and whitebread's denial differs not materially from garnet's confession . both these may be , and yet there be no new creed , nor new faith since those days amongst them ; as the aforesaid author would infer there must , upon this different event , if we allow not both to be innocent . denying and confessing are indeed in themselves incompatible , and had it bin true which the above-cited authors do say , that all of the conspirators in the powder-treason did acknowledge their treasons , and asked god and the king pardon ( which i have shewed to be otherwise * ) and impartially confessed all that they knew of that matter ; then their confession might be well opposed to these men's denial : but when the confession was so restrained and qualified ( as i have above shewed ) it 's a plain sign , that had there bin nothing but conscience and principles in their way ( as these pretend ) they would have taken another course ; and the scaevola faux , that had the courage to say , and without doubt to do what he said , that if he had happened to be within the house , as he was without , when they took him , he would not have failed to have blown up himself , them , house and all : and he that also laid all the blame upon himself , and would own no complices , would have died with the same roman resolution , had not the rack brought him to better manners * . this sir everard digby did believe of him , i knew , saith he , that he [ faux ] had been imployed in great matters , and till torture , sure he carried it very well . there is a time that it is either not possible , or to no purpose to deny , and then there can be no trial of a man's principles . thus it was with watson and clark in king james's time , who knew that they were betrayed by the jesuits , and so were thereby disabled to prevent the danger and scandal likely to befal their party by their confession , had they been willing to swear they were innocent , and to take it upon their death . there was not an opportunity for them to make that experiment upon themselves , nor to give us an evidence how far their consciences would have dispensed with so doing . and so it was no fit case for the above said authour to oppose to this at present for that reason as well as another , viz. that they were not jesuits , nor of their party . they must make the circumstances the same , and shew that what was then confessed , was sincere & free , full and particular ; that they never did deny when asked upon oath , nor equivocate in what they did confess , nor ever unsay what they had said ; before we can believe they did confess meerly because their consciences could not dispence with so horrid a thing ( as that author calls it ) as swearing they were innocent , and taking it upon their death . but if they cannot prove this , and the case is apparently otherwise , as i have before shewed ; then for all this discourse and bustle of theirs , in comparing the powder-treason with this plot , and the passages and comportments of the criminals upon that occasion , with these of our modern pretended ( as they say ) conspirators , we are still where we were , and have good reason to believe that both those then , and these now did act by like principles and measures ; and that they did confess or deny with the like sincerity that our author gave a book that he writ in defence of the papists and popish traitors , the title of the new plot of the papists , to transform traitors into martyrs ; and call'd that a new plot , which we in england know to be as ancient as the days of thomas a becket . finis . contents of the vindication . sect. . p. . the conspiracy of the powder treason was not the contrivance of a minister of state. an account of the letter wrote to the lord monteagle , that it was not written by a decoy , and that tresham was no such . a character of the apologists that wrote upon this subject . the correspondence that is maintained betwixt the jesuits . their calumnies . an account of the breves of clement the th ; and of the lord balmerinoch's letter . sect. . p. . that more were concerned in the powder-treason than were publickly known . the design it self considered . the character of the persons chiefly concerned in it . the provisions made for it . the prayers which were then used . an account of the evidence then given . the confession of the traitors imperfect . that what they confessed was not from conscience . their obstinacy , especially in concealing the priests . sect. . p. . those that fled and suffered for the powder treason were really guilty . what jesuits were in it . the tryal of garnet . that something related in confession may and ought to be discovered . garnet had the knowledg of the plot out of confession . that he and the other jesuits did satisfie the consciences of the scrupulous . sect. . p. . that the powder-treason was undertaken upon the account of religion . that king james gave them no assurance of favour . sect. . p. . that the church of rome never gave any real and good satisfaction of the abhorrency of that treason . the commendations which they give of the traitors . the saintship which they give to garnet and hall. the favour which those that fled for it found at rome . sect. . p. . the powder-treason and the present popish plot compared . that they agree in more things than they differ ; and what they differ in , are not so material as what they do agree in . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e catholick-apology with reply . p . p. . mori ●ist , prov . p. . apol. p. , . p. . apol. p. . baker's chr. an. . wilson great brit. p. . p. . apol. p. . p. p. . p. . p. . p. . v. discourse of the original of the powder-plot . p. . &c. apol. pro. garneto . p. . * tortus p. . edit colon. act of parliament for . nov. p. . p. . proceedings p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . history of the gunpowder-treason , p. . p. . p. . advocate for liberty p. . proceedings p. . proceedings p. . advocate of liberty . p. . apol. p. . proceedings p. . apol. ibid. advocate for liberty . p. . apol. p. , . advocate for liberty . p . proceedings p. . proceedings p. , . apol. p. . regulae societatis iesu authoritate congregat . generalis auctor . cap. formula scribendi . reg. , , . reg. . reg. , & . reg. . reg. . apol. pro. garneto p. . apol. pro. garneto c. . p. . apol. pro. garneto p. . . p. . p. . & ● . answer to carrier . p. . premonition in his works p. . v. tortur . tort. p. , . advocate for liberty of conscience p. , , . p. . p. . apol. pro garnet . p. . k. james p. . dr. stillingfleets serm. nov. . . premonition to all monarchs in his works . p. . proceedings p. , . cath. apol p. . watson's quodlibets . p. , ▪ &c. proceedings p. , . weston , de triplici hom . offic. proceedings p. . apology for the oath of allegiance in k. james his works . p. . proceedings p. . proceedings p. , . tortus's lies confuted in k. james's works . p. . bp. andrews tort. torti p. . &c. spotswood's hist. scotl. p. . * dr. moulin advances of the church of en. towards popery . spotswood's hist. p. . respons . ad tort. p. . id. . id. . watsons quodlibets . p. . printed . resp. ad tortum . p. . proceedings p. . catholick-apology p. . p. . apol. p. . winter's confes. in proceedings p. . eudaemon . apol. pro. garneto p. . mori hist. miss p. ▪ proceedings p . cath. apol. p. . paper . . proceedings p. . proceedings p. . proceedings p. , . proceedings p. . digby's paper . . paper . . paper . . pap. . proceedings p. . proceedings p. . speech in parliament . proceedings p. . osborn king james s. . from d'ossat's letter . v. proceed . p. & abb. antilog . p. . b ibid. s. . seven sparks of the enkindled soul , &c. p. . , p. , . pag. . p. . p. . p. . robinson's anatomy of the english nunnery at lisbon . proceedings p. . proceedings p. , . proceedings p. . abbot to antilogia , p. b. b. apolog. pro garneto . p. . cath. apol. p. . apolog. pro garneto , p. , & . ibi● pp . premonition to monarchs in k. james's works . p. . cath. apol. p. . proceed . p. . abbati antilogia p. . a p. . b proceed . p. . proceed . p. . cath. apol. p. . proceed . p. . p. . proceed . p. . ibid. p. . . & . tort. torti . p. . paper . paper . abboti . antilog . p. . b. cambden . eliz. abbot . antilog . p. . b. winter's confession , in proceed . p. . paper . casauboni epist. ad ducaeum p. . pap. . paper . proceeds p. . tort. torti . p. . proceed . p. . paper . paper . preface to his papers . mss. h. thuanus abboti antil . p. . apol. pro garneto . paper . ibid. & pap . . proceed . p. . morus in hist. saith gerard p. . was very familiar with digby . paper . proceedings p. . paper paper . paper . proceed . p. . . abboti antil . p. . a . b. proceed . p. . abboti . antil . p. . b. proceed . p. . abboti . antil . p. . a. casaub. epist. ad ducaeum , p. , . proceedings p. proceedings p. . proceedings p. . ibid. tortura torti . p. . abboti antil . p. . tortura torti . p. . abboti anti p. . a proceedings p. , . these are quoted often in abboti antilog . and tortura torti , &c. proceed . p. , & . casa●uboni epist ad ducaeum p. . abboti antil . p. . b. cath. apol. p. . rom. chur. vindicated p. . cath. apol. p. . proceedings p. . mori hist. p. . antilog . p. . b. mori hist. p. . digby's paper . . mori hist. p. . ibid. p. . v. preface to his papers . & paper . . pap. . proceedings p. & . k. james's premonition , in his works . p. . casaub. epist. ad ducaeum p. . abboti anlog . p. . b ibid. . ibid. . ibid. p. . b. ibid. p. . a. proceedings p. . ibid. . b rom. ch. vindicated p. . . watson's quodlibets p. . proceed . p. . & p. . proceed . p. . proceedings . p. . paper . eudaem . apol p. . cath. apol. p. . cath. apol. p. . proceedings p. . ibid. p. . abboti antil . p. . a and . b eudaem . apol. proceed . p. . antilog . p. . b. antilog . p. . b proceed . p. . mori . hest. p. antilog . p. . b ibid. p. . b & . ibid . b antilog . p. . a & . b cath. apol. p. . hist. ▪ mori hist. p. . antilog . p. . a. proceedings p. . ibid. p. . proceeds p. . widdrington append. p. . tort. torti . p. . antil . p. . alegambe biblioth . index martyr . an. . mori hist. p. p. , & . eudaem . apol . p. . ibid. . proceedings p. . casaub. epist. ad ducaeum p. . widdringtoni appen . p. . proceed . p. . tort. torti . p. . soto de rat . deteg . secret. mem . . q. . cons. . tort. torti . p. , . cath. apol. paper . p. . cath. apol. p. . proceedings p. . antilog . p. b. tortura torti . p. . ibid. p. . antilog . p. . b. widdrington app. p. . procee p. . cath. apol. p. . ibid. p. . tort. torti , p. . antilog . p. . b. proceed . p. . eudaem . apol p. . mori hist. p. . casaub. epist ad ducaeum . p. . tort. torti . p. . proceed . p. . proceed . p. . paper . . proceedings p. . eudaem . apol p. . paper . paper . (a) tort. torti . p. . (b) mori hist. p. . (c) proceed . p. . (d) mori hist. p. . (e) ibid p. . (f) proceed . p. . antilog . p. . b & . proceed . p. . (g) cath. apol. p. . mori . hist. p. . antilog . p. . b paper . ibid. antilog . p. . a. proceedings p. . eudaem . apol. p. . &c. antilog . p. . b ibid. p. . proceedings p. . antilog . p. . b eudaem . apol p. . antilog . p. . b ibid. p. . b. antilog . p. . a proceedings p. . proceedings p. . ibid. p. . antilog . p. . b proceed . p. & . ibid. p. . antilog . p. . a pap. . compared with pap . . proceedings . p. , . casaub. ad ducaeum . proceedings p. . proceedings p. , & . proceedings p. . p. . proceed . p. . eudaem . apol . p. . ibid. p. . cath. apol. p. . antilog . p. . b proceedings p. . ibid. crook's reports . an. d jac. proceed . p. . casaub. ad ducaeum p. . k. james's works . p. . tortura torti . p. . suar. def. l. . c. de persec . angl. tortur . torti . p. . proceed . p. . paper . . paper . paper . k. james's speech . proceed . p. . cath. apol. p. . k. james's works p. . eudaem . apol. p. . ibid. p. . k. james's works p. . widdringtoni appendix p. . alegambe biblioth . cath. apol. p. . mori hist. p. . antilog . p. . a. widdrington appendix p. . antilog . p. . cath. apol. p. . mori hist. p. . eudaem . apol . init . mori hist. p. . bishop hall serm. before k. j. sept. . . mori hist. p. . widdring . app. p. . fowlis l. . c. . antil . p. . a widdringt . app. p. . k. james's appol . in works p. . widdringt . apol. p. . cath. apol. p. ●●● . ms. cui tit. summar . de rebus relig . in anglia . an. . crashaw's mittimus , in advertisement to the reader . catho . apo. ibid. king james premonition , in his works . p. . compendium of the late tryals , &c. new plot of the papists . new plot. p. . new plot. ibid. tryals of green , &c. p. . p. . p. . & , compared . compendium p. . tryals p. . new plot p. p. . tryal's of green , &c : p. , & . prance's narative . p. . &c. new plot. prances's narrative . p. , . bedlows examination in his last sickness . p. . new plot. ibid. v. abboti antilog . p. . a compendium . p. . smith's account of the malefactors , &c. p. . new plot. ibid. compendium . p. . tryal of whitebread , &c. p. . the trial of ireland p. p. p. . p. . new-plot . p. . ibid. compendium . p. . tryal of green , &c. p. , . &c. ibid. p. . new plot. ibid. new plot p. , . compendium . p. . compend . p. . * v. pag. , , & . compend . p. . vid. pag. . &c. compend . p. . advocate of conscience p. . ibid. & a plea for engl. priests printed . p. , & . new-plot . p. . tryals of ireland , &c. p. . coleman's d letter in his tryal . p. . * p. , , , , &c. stayley's tryal p. . fitz geralds nar. p. . * vid. p. . ireland's trial , pag. - . dugdale's further informat . p. * vid. p. . ireland's trial , pag. - . dugdale's further informat . p. (a) colemans trial. p. . (b) fitz-geralds nar. p. , &c. † trials of whitebread , &c. p. , . address , novemb . . fitz geralds narrative . p. . * p. , & . smith's narrative p. . * p. , &c. eudaemon apol. p. . * fitz. gerald's informat . p. . smith's narrat . p. . compend . p. . bedlow's last examinat . p. . dugdale's informat . p. . dangerfield's nar. dugdale's informat . p. . reflections on the e. of danby . * hist. p. . vindicat. p. . & . eudaem . parallel torti , &c. p. . compendium . p. . & . malice defeated . p. . * p. , & v. the printed narat . mr. reading's trial. * p. , &c. p. , & . new plot p. . * p. . * p. , &c. new plot. ibid. * p. . proceed . p. . * as i before observed p. . paper . compend . p. . the certainty of divine revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, feb. . / . being the second of the lecture for the ensuing year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire. by john williams, d.d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the certainty of divine revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, feb. . / . being the second of the lecture for the ensuing year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire. by john williams, d.d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty. williams, john, ?- . boyle, robert, - . the second edition corrected. [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill: at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard; and at the three legs in the poultrey, london : m dc xc vi. [ ] with an initial imprimatur leaf dated feb. . / . and signed guil. lancaster. with a final advertisment page. reproduction of the original in the trinity college library, cambridge. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t -- hebrews i, - -- sermons -- early works to . sermons, english -- th century. salvation -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , feb. . / . guil. lancaster . the certainty of divine revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , feb. . / . being the second of the lecture for the ensuing year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the second edition corrected . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . mdcxcvi . heb. i. , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son. in which words i have observed there is , i. a description given of revelation , 't is god's speaking , and declaring his will to persons chosen for that purpose . ii. the certainty of it ; 't is by way of declaration , and taken for granted , god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake , &c. iii. the order observed in delivering this revelation ; it was at sundry times , and in divers manners : in time past by the prophets , and in the last days by his son. it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in parts , and in several periods and manifestations ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by illapses , visions , &c. iv. the perfection and conclusion of all , 't is in the last days by his son ; the heir of all things , &c. under the first i have shewed , . what we mean by revelation , in contradistinction to natural light. . the possibility of it . . the expedience , usefulness , and necessity of it . it is the second i am to proceed to , viz. the certainty . under which i shall shew , i. that god has reveal'd himself ; or that there has been such revelation . ii. the difference between pretended and real revelation . iii. that the scriptures of the old and new testament contain such a revelation , and have upon them all the characters necessary and belonging to such revelation . i. that there has been a divine revelation . what i have principally in my eye , is the proof of the divine authority of the holy scriptures ; but for the present i shall lay that aside , and take my rise towards it from such general principles and observations as are founded upon reason ; or such particular instances and matters of fact as manifestly proceeded from revelation . and accordingly i shall dispose of what i have to say in proof of it , under these four heads ; as we have for it , . a rational or moral evidence . . a natural . . a traditionary , or testimony . . a supernatural . first , moral : where in the first place i take for granted what i have before proved , viz. that a divine revelation is expedient , useful , and necessary ; and upon that supposition shall attempt to prove the certainty of it . i acknowledge , where the necessity is created by our own fault , there lies no obligation upon the creator to provide a remedy ; and since the necessity mankind is now in , proceeded from their apostacy , that necessity can in reason be no just plea for it , nor a sufficient excuse in the want of it . when man was created in such a state as made revelation a necessary help to his reason , god immediately afforded him such an extraordinary manifestation of himself : but when he forfeited that divine gift , he could have no allowable right or claim to it ; for to him that hath , and improves what he hath , shall be given ; but to him that hath not , and takes no care to preserve and improve it , may justly be denied what was otherwise fit and necessary for him to have . this indeed is the case , if rigorously stated ; but considering the miserable circumstances mankind were in after the fall , more especially through want of a revelation , we may reasonably conclude , that the goodness of god would no less incline him to give it , than if he had been obliged to it by a special grant , promise , or covenant . decrees are secrets lock'd up in the breast of almighty god ; and whatever good is therein intended , how beneficial soever they may be in the event , yet afford no satisfaction to us , till they are opened and revealed : and though the redemption of mankind were decreed , and were according to circumstances to operate , and in due season to be fully executed , yet what would they have been the better , if for years together that decree had lay hid in the bosom of the father , and the decree had never been a promise , and that promise had never before that time been reveal'd unto them ? so that had we no such promise upon record , as , the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpent's head ; yet however , we might be as sure that there was some such kind of revelation made to adam , some promise of forgiveness , when god did intend to redeem him and all mankind , as there was a design to redeem them : it being as necessary toward their present comfort to have a revelation of that mercy in their redemption , as redemption it self was necessary toward their happiness . and this will farther be confirmed , if we consider what has been before proved in the former discourse , that all men have had a sense of the want of a revelation ; and have been possess'd with an earnest and impatient desire of obtaining it ; which being a desire becoming human nature , useful and fit to be cherish'd , it is not to be conceiv'd , that where there is provision made to answer all sensible and natural appetites throughout the creation , that this no less importunate , though supervenient desire , should have no regard paid to it , but be suffered , like aetna , to be always burning within , tormenting , as it were , the bowels of mankind with an unquenchable fire , or an unsatiable desire of knowing what was not to be known , and of obtaining what was not to be obtained . this is a state that the consideration of god's goodness will not admit us to suppose ; and we must therefore necessarily conclude , that the same divine power and wisdom that made man a reasonable and inquisitive being , and has allowed him a world of wonders to employ that faculty in the contemplation of , hath also provided for that noble desire of knowing what the will of his maker is , and what relates to his own eternal welfare ; and that is , by a revelation . indeed without this , 't is with him as with one that is born blind , that whatever other evidence he may have of the being of a god , wants one of the most convincing of all , which is , the wonders of an almighty power and incomprehensible wisdom , conspicuous in the frame of nature , and the visible parts of the creation : so whatever sense men , that have only reason for their guide , may have of the mercy and goodness of god ; whatever they may observe in the course of his providence to confirm them in the belief of it ; whatever hopes they may have of it , from the general notion of the divine nature ; whatever desire they may have of it , from a sense of their own misery , yet they want that evidence of it , which , as we find by constant experience , alone can satisfy and compose their doubtful and distracted minds , and that is certainty , or , which is the same , revelation ; by which and nothing less , that certainty is to be attained . and therefore we have just reason to believe that was not wanting to the first ages of the world : for the same reason we have to believe god to be good , the like reason we have to believe that he did after that manner make himself known in those early times from the first to mankind . but it may be said , what is all this reasoning to matter of fact ? for if after all , there has been no such revelation , or no proof can be made of it , that is more than a thousand speculative arguments for it . and besides , supposing there was once a revelation , what was that to those ages and nations that afterwards wanted it , and were condemned , as it were , to sit in darkness , and the shadow of death ? the last of these is not to be denied , and so i shall first of all consider it . and in answer to it it shall suffice to say for the present , that if there has been such a revelation made known to the world , and all due care taken by the almighty and beneficent creator for the preservation of it , and it afterwards be damnified , or corrupted , or in fine , utterly lost , through the negligence or perverseness of men themselves , the fault of the miscarriage wholly rests upon them . the making known the revelation , was an extraordinary case , and is a voluntary act of grace and favour in almighty god ; the preservation of it is the ordinary case , and belongs to men : and when once the extraordinary case becomes ordinary , god leaves it to its proper and natural course , to second causes , to human prudence , care , and inspection . thus it is with reason , the noblest principle of human nature , which if not attended and nurtur'd , may degenerate into stupidity , and a kind of brutality . as it happen'd to some nations in the southern parts of africa , west-tartary , and west-indies , that notwithstanding the characters of an almighty being legibly stamped upon the face of the whole and every part of the creation , have so far degenerated , that it has been questioned , whether they have had any notion or sense of a god , or any sort of worship for him . and so it is in the case before us : for as god had made a special revelation of himself to adam after as well as before the fall , so he took a very effectual way for the conveyance and preservation of it , by the longaevity of those patriarchs with whom it was deposited , and who were to take care that it might be preserv'd inviolable : three of which alone fill'd up the first period of years , from the creation to the flood ; viz. adam , methuselah , and noah : so that methuselah lived years with adam , ( for so old was he when adam died ; ) and noah lived years with methuselah ( for so old was noah when methuselah died , and the flood came . ) and four again of the fathers after the flood ( tho the extent of their lives was shortned ) fell in with the years from the flood to the giving of the law by moses at sinai : so that abraham is well supposed to have lived years with shem , jacob about with abraham , levi years with jacob , and amram the father of moses lived in the time of his grandfather levi. now what course , in the circumstances and the state the world was at that time in , could be more fit , if duly observed , for conveying the matter of a revelation through the several periods and ages of the world , so far as personal teaching was sufficient ? and especially , when the things revealed , and after this manner to be delivered from age to age , were of importance sufficient to oblige both teacher and scholar ; and withal so few , as might without any difficulty be retained . and therefore , if notwithstanding the method taken by almighty god for the registring what he had revealed , in the memories of men , and for delivering it down to future ages , there was afterwards no care taken on their part , and no reasonable provision made for conserving such a revelation , but that in process of time , it was either totally obliterated , or vilely corrupted , the miscarriage was ( as i have said ) wholly chargeable upon such as by their negligence or wickedness made mankind to sin , in not delivering , or not faithfully delivering down to posterity what they themselves had received in its original purity from their ancestors . the case is indeed very lamentable , but what is not to be helped , without almighty god alters the nature of things , turns them out of their proper and ordinary course , and acts solely by his own power and prerogative , either without or above the agency of second causes . which is no more with reason to be expected , than that when god has made the earth in its own nature fertile , and capable of yielding all things necessary for man's subsistence , with cultivation ; that he should also be obliged to continue it in the same state it was created in ; and when by the sloth and stupidity of men it brought forth nothing but thorns and thistles , should miraculously make every tree that is pleasant to the sight , and good for food , and whatever was beneficial and necessary , to grow out of the ground , as at first , and before there was a man to till the ground . now if this be unreasonable for man to expect , it is so then in the case of revelation , which god had committed to the custody of men themselves , and made them whose interest it was , to be the conservators of it . having thus far considered the case of those that had not , or have no revelation , i shall return to the main point , which is , to shew that there has been such a revelation . and that brings me to the iid . sort of proof , which i call natural , as it belongs to things natural , and is opposed to what is of mere institution , ( which i conceive to be equivalent to revelation ) : and they are speech , and common notions . . speech : for which there is in man a natural capacity , and organs admirably contrived and disposed ( as we see by experience . ) but now there is a vast difference in that case betwixt us and other creatures ; for other creatures have not only organs as we have , fitted for their proper notes , but at once have all those organs in tune and in operation ; so that whatever they would signify in their way , and according to their kind , they immediately thereby express : but though the organs of speech in us are as exquisitely framed , yet we gradually grow up to the use of them ; and again , can never apply them , or know how to use them , without some precedent instruction . and therefore it has been the opinion of many , that without hearing others speak , we should be eternally dumb * ; as the experiment of psammeticus king of egypt shews † , ( if true ) of shutting up two children in separate caves , where they never heard one articulate word , and so could use none . so that now man must be taught , and as he is taught , so he speaks . but we will put the case in which there was no human instructor , and yet the person spoke as articulately , and had the free use of words , and knew as well how to express his mind by them from the very first , as if he had had the best helps for it in the world , and had been never so long a time versed and practised in it ; and that person was adam , who was created in a full age , and had none before him ; and yet must as soon have words for use , and skill how to use them , as he had to give names to the creatures , according to their several kinds . for without this , what conversation could he have with eve , or what comfort could he take in her presence , ( for it was not to be call'd society ) ; and what a dejection must there be in each of them , when all other creatures had their notes for understanding each other , according to the species they were of , but they themselves alone were mute . so that though 't is not expresly said , that adam and eve had any discourse ; yet 't is as certain from the reason of the thing , as it is that god spake to them , or the serpent and eve spake together . but 't is certain adam must then be self-instructed , or be instructed by god : he must then invent a language of himself , or he must be taught by him that made him . if he was to teach himself , how could he know that he was able to speak ; or how can we think he would begin his conversation by an attempt that way ? for 't is highly probable , that they would first have began with dumb signs , or some external motions ( as we see those ordinarily do , that have no words which others can understand ) ; or if they should at length have found out such an expedient , and formed some articulate sounds , yet what a tedious course would this have been , and how long before it could be wrought into a language , that they could first think of words , and then remember them , and then use them , and then fall into discourse ? don't we find how difficult it is to learn to speak a foreign language , when we have all advantages for it , by instruction and discourse with those that speak it ? but suppose two persons wholly strangers to one another , and of a language as different as chinese and english , should meet together , and be constrained by circumstances , being without other society , to converse with each other ; though each had a language of their own , and knew how to speak and form words for pronunciation , yet how long would it be before they could fix the words for it , and to have a term for every thing they were to discourse about ; to invent and agree upon it , and then to remember them , and then to use them ? and then much more will the difficulties increase , were these two in the case of adam and eve , and to beat out the track which never any walked in before ; to invent speech it self , and words to be spoken , and sufficient to express the thoughts of each other , so as to make company , and that company agreeable , acceptable , and useful . this must have been the work of time , if it had been practicable ; and the difficulty of it would have made each others company a burden rather than a pleasure , till such time as they could come to a mutual understanding of one anothers minds and inclinations . and therefore to make them meet helps for each other , it was of necessity that they should have an extraordinary power communicated from heaven , and be enabled by that instinct as soon to speak , as the other creatures are in a course of nature to utter such voices as are suitable to their kind , or as mankind are to express their passions of joy or sorrow , by laughter or tears . so that 't is not without reason , i rank the gift of speech among those things that are of a divine infusion , and so equivalent to revelation . . another instance of this kind , is what is usually called common notions , or natural impressions : common notions , because they are common to all mankind ; and natural impressions , because they are conceiv'd not to be acquired by any human means , such as education and instruction , observation and experience ; but are imprinted on our nature by an immediate and supernatural power . that there are such notions as all mankind do agree in , is undeniable ; such as the belief of a god , an adoration to be given to him ; and that there is an essential difference between good and evil , so that good cannot by any art or endeavour be made or esteemed to be evil , nor evil good : for as the natures of the things themselves cannot be altered , so neither can our conceptions of them . it is as undeniable , that these notions or impressions are so early to be discovered , and do so grow up with our reason , that they seem not to be the effects of our reason , but rather to be antecedent to it ; and that it is rather what we find , than what we chuse ; what belongs to our nature , than what we add to it . and accordingly as we have a notion , so a sense of those things , antecedent to all reasoning and instruction , which we call conscience , excusing or else accusing , according to the nature of the things , whether good or evil . now as the nature of the things must be before our conception of them , so both must be before we pass this practical judgment upon them : and if we do exercise this faculty antecedent to all instruction , then so must the sense of the things be , about which it is exercised . so the apostle , rom. . . when the gentiles which have not the law , do by nature the things contained in the law , these having not the law , are a law unto themselves : which shew the work of the law written in their hearts , their conscience also bearing witness , &c. which is exactly agreeable to the phrase of the wisest among them ; so aristotle calls it , the natural , common , and unwritten law. but above all , cicero ( who best knew the sense of the philosophers , and how to express it ) doth speak fully to this point , both as to the universality of these first notions , and the agreement in them by all mankind ; both as to the nature and rise of them . there is , saith he , a certain law , not written , but native to us , which we have not learned , received , nor read : but we have taken and derived it from nature it self ; to which we were not taught to be conformed , but made ; it was not by institution , but infusion . this , in another place , he saith all men have by a certain anticipation , and calls them innate cogitations ; and will allow it to come from no less a power than what is divine . we have , saith he , received a conscience from the immortal gods , which cannot be plucked away from us . so that whatever improvement these notions and impressions may receive from an after instruction , yet they seem to be implanted in us by the same power that made us reasonable creatures , who no more could leave himself without witness in our minds , than in the works of nature . and being thus antecedent to our own reasoning , or other information , can proceed from no other a principle than revelation doth , and is therefore equivalent to it . iii. there is a traditionary proof of revelation , which is by testimony , or by such instances as are a part of the revelation ; and of which , as i conceive , no tolerable account can be given , if they are not allowed to be of divine institution . in order to which , . i observe , that the want of a revelation in any particular nation or age , is not an argument sufficient to prove that there never was any revelation . for revelation being more especially of things not knowable by the mere light of nature , may be lost , while the light of nature remains . it being in this case much as it is in matters of history , which may be derived from one generation to another , and especially by registers and memorials : but if a former generation be careless and slothful , or the records not faithfully wrote or kept , the matters of fact in one age are irrecoverably lost in the next , or turned into fables . of which the earliest times are too manifest an instance ; and for which reason varro did not divide them amiss , into 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , obscure or unknown , and fabulous . which lasted till the first olympiad , and that was , at soonest , anno mundi ; when the historical age , according to him , begins . now as the want of such histories will not prove that there never were any such , and much less that there were no matters of fact for the furnishing such histories : so though there be no revelation , or no memorials of such a revelation , in some particular nations or ages , it will not necessarily follow that there never was any such revelation made to the world. . when i propose the proof of a revelation , i would not be understood so much as to suppose , that there was from the beginning , or before the time of moses , a pandect or collection of divine revelations ; but only that there were inspired persons to whom god did ( as occasion served ) reveal himself in sundry times and divers manners , such as adam , enoch , noah , &c. . where there has been or is no revelation , or pretence to it ( if any such age or people ever were ) yet there are or have been in those ages or nations , certain footsteps of such a revelation ; and which whereever they are found , are as evident marks of such a revelation , as pillars or crosses found in a countrey at present uninhabited , are , that there have been some persons that have been there before , and have erected those monuments . . i account such usages , rites , and principles , to proceed from revelation , that have no foundation in reason , and the nature of the thing , but are correspondent to what we call revelation ; and which can well have no reason at all assign'd for them , if not the reason given in that revelation : such are expiatory sacrifices , and other things relating to divine worship . . this is the more confirmed , if such usages , rites and principles have been observed , practised , and believed , in nations that have had no relation one to another , no commerce or communication , nor sometimes knowledge of one another ; for then they must arise from some common head , from whence they were ab-originally dispersed among the several branches of the same stock . when one people has been mixed with another , as the jews and egyptians ; or derived from another , as the colchi from the egyptians ; or there have been commerces and confederacies , wars and conquests , 't is no wonder they intermingle in several rites and observances . of this we have a notorious instance in circumcision , which by the abovesaid means came to be received by several nations , as the ethiopians , egyptians , and colchi , the phoenicians , and some of the syrians , as herodotus shews * . but when the usages , rites , and principles have been as well found where there has been no communication , as where there has ; 't is no less a sign they descend from one and the same original , than when the waters of the seven branches of the river nilus have one and the same taste and colour , without any communication , that they do all descend from the main stream . in like manner , if we find , suppose , among the seventy nations ( into which 't is said mankind was divided , upon the confusion at babel ) several of the same rites and usages , generally speaking , concurring with those of what we call revelation , we must conclude , that they were observed before that dispersion , and were wholly owing to as early an institution . among the instances that i shall make use of for the proof of a revelation , i shall begin with those that relate to divine worship , such as time , sacrifices , &c. . time. that there is some particular portion of time to be set apart for the publick worship of god , either by divine appointment , or humane consent , is absolutely necessary , when it is to be the act of a society ; for worship , without some time for such society to convene and assemble in , must inevitably end in confusion and dissolution . and therefore as god created the world as a temple to exhibit and manifest himself in , and created such beings as should in their several stations celebrate his praise ; so when he had finished all his work , he established that day which he rested upon , to be from thenceforward devoted to that service ; as we may see the institution , gen. . . i call this an institution ; for when could that be more seasonably instituted by divine authority , than at the close of the creation , when the sanctification and the reason of it were so immediately connected ; god blessed and sanctified it , because in it he had rested from all his work ? it being not probable that there should be at that time no institution , when the reason for it is expresly given ; or that there should be no present obligation to observe it , when there was an institution . if god had no sooner finished his work , but he sanctified the day following , 't is evident that the obligation to observe it must begin with the institution : and if he sanctified it , because on that day he rested , 't is as evident the institution did begin with the reason of it . and then how improbable is it that god should bless and sanctify a particular day , and yet for the space of two thousand years together should leave that day in common with the other days of the week , without any distinction ? how improbable again , that it should be first instituted and made a duty to the jews only for a reason that equally concerned all mankind as well as them , because he rested ; and for a reason existent from the first , as well as in the time when it was instituted at sinai ? 't is highly unreasonable to add one prolepsis to another , and to heap figure upon figure , when there is no necessity for it , contrary to all the rules of a just interpretation . now if this be an original and primaeval institution , we have one instance of a divine revelation , so far as the scripture is of authority ; and surely we may demand in its behalf , to have as much regard paid to it as we give to prophane histories . but however , we are not without a concurrent testimony from them also in this particular . for it is manifest that there hath been of great antiquity such a distribution of time as we call a week of seven days ; and which is more to our purpose , that the seventh day was a festival and religious day . this lucian doth more than intimate ; and long before him , solon , who calls it most holy day , in his elegies , quoted by eusebius * ; and one earlier than he , homer , who calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the holy day . but calimachus , homer , and linus , are still more particular , for they say it was because all the works of creation were then finished . so homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and 't is therefore called by linus , the birth-day of the world. now there is nothing in nature to point to this ; for there is no more to be observed from the motion of the heavens for such a septenary distribution of time , or division into weeks , than there is for the dividing of a day into hours : and consequently it must proceed from some institution , and from a very early institution , because of what i have observed from the fore-cited authors , who are of great antiquity , especially homer and linus : for homer is supposed to have lived in or about the time of saul , in the year of the world , and linus in the time of the judges , about the year . the consideration of which doth make it probable , that these ancient poets owed their information to the general tradition of the world , rather than to the jews . indeed aristobulus the jew , from whom eusebius drew the abovesaid testimonies , saith , these poets had borrowed them from the jewish books . but if it be consider'd how little the jewish books , the scriptures , were known to the world before the translation of them by the seventy into greek , which was about years before the birth of our saviour ; or how little the opinions of the jews themselves before the captivity were known abroad , it will hardly be conceived , that these things should be known so early , and spoke of so positively by the greek poets , homer and linus , within so short a time after the institution of the sabbath at sinai , as these two lived ; for linus must have lived within less than half an hundred years after the time of moses ; and homer in less than . where if we take the lowest term , that of homer , the jews were hardly in a setled state , and no more in a condition , than they were disposed in their temper , or permitted by their religion , to inform other nations in the articles or mysteries of their religion . so that it seems very evident , that the observation of the seventh day for the service of god , was an ancient and general opinion , and especially of those who may be best presumed to understand what had been the sense of mankind in the ages before , or those in which they lived . and if this was the opinion of those early times , conformable to the history of scripture , we have sufficient reason to offer this as an instance of a revelation . . another instance of revelation is sacrifices , and especially those of expiation . amongst all the rites and usages relating to divine worship , there are none that exceed these in their antiquity ( except the sabbath ) or extent . for we no sooner read of god's reconciliation to mankind , but that they offer'd sacrifice ; no sooner of noah's deliverance and escape out of the deluge , but he offer'd sacrifice : and without doubt , as it begun , so it continued , and was as much dispersed and observed among mankind before the flood , as after it . but how probable soever it is , that this rite was thus universally observed before , yet that we are not so certain of , as we are of the observation of it after the flood , when there was no age nor nation where it was not to be found , how dispersed soever they were ; of which no tolerable account is to be given , unless it be allowed to have been in use before the dispersion at babel , and that it was of divine institution . it must have been , i say , in use before that dispersion ; for how could all nations fall into one and the same practice , and have the same opinion of sacrifices , when there is nothing in the nature of the thing to lead them to it , if it had not been , that they had all descended from one blood , from one family , from one body ; by which means it was conveyed into all the several branches issuing from it , and went along with them where ever they went. now the question is , whence this should arise , and what gave it this universal acceptance and authority ? whether the invention of some eminent persons , suppose , in those early times ? or whether it was by revelation from god , and of his special institution ? there seems no great reason to think this service should proceed merely from the invention of men , even of those pious and well-disposed persons , since ( as i have said ) there is nothing in the nature of the thing to lead to it . for how could it be supposed that this should be acceptable to almighty god , which in it self holds no conformity , nor is at all suitable to his nature ? will i eat the flesh of bulls , and drink the blood of goats ? is a true representation of it . it might become a sanguinary sort of daemons , or false gods , and wicked spirits , to be pleased with the fumes and reakings of the bleeding sacrifice , as the heathens generally thought : but men of any understanding would rather chuse a reasonable service for the god that made them reasonable creatures , and might presume another sort of sacrifice would be more acceptable to him than this , and acceptable without it , viz. a sacrifice of praise and prayer , of a pure mind , and a good life , which the wiser heathens did in their opinion exceedingly prefer . but as for the sacrifices and blood of beasts , such philosophers as pythagoras and plato spoke of them often with regret and displeasure ; and others wonder'd how they first came into the world , as porphyry , that wrote expresly against them . what expression could thereby be given , suppose , of mens gratitude to god for their being , and their preservation ? who of all mankind is fo stupidly credulous , so foolish , that can think the gods delighted with such a present of bows , gall , and blood , which a hungry dog would scarcely touch ; and that they should repay the favour to those that offer it ? said an ancient heathen poet , cited by porphyry . but if we descend to expiatory sacrifices , who could think that the blood of bulls and of goats could take away sin , and that god would accept of that as a fit compensation for their crimes ; the blood of a brute for that of a man , the life of one that is not in its own power , instead of him that was ? and if men were so weak as of their own accord to offer it ; can we think the almighty creator would accept of what was for it self only unbecoming his majesty , and be so highly delighted with it , as to testify his acceptance of abel's by the descent of a miraculous fire to consume it ; and to smell a sweet savour upon noah's oblation ; to appoint it as a sign of his covenant with abraham ; and lastly , to embody it into the mosaical institution ? it was enough , one would think , that the majesty of heaven and earth hath accepted of the good will of the first inventors , how poor and low soever the invention was ; but it was too great a condescension to do by these as the heathens by their heroes , to translate them into the number of their deities ; too much to have such a mark of the favour of heaven , as none of the divine institutions could have more . but why should we think so meanly of those antediluvian patriarchs , of adam and abel , enoch and noah , &c. the first inventors or encouragers of this way of worship ? at this rate happier far were the inventions of adah , jubal , and tubal-cain , that taught others how to order cattel , to handle the harp and the organ , to work in brass and iron ; for these did serve either the necessities or pleasures of mankind , and were suitable to their nature and condition : but to offer bestial sacrifices to an infinite spirit , was as if we should present mankind with the entertainments and pleasures of the brutes ; and so it cannot be thought that men ( how low soever their understandings were ) would think the blood of beasts a decent present to their creator , which indeed would not be so to their superiors here . but we have another sort of character of those holy men , who were persons of great knowledge and vast experience ; who both received their religion from the almighty , were the great props and stays of it in their generation , and to whom the care of transmitting it to posterity was committed ; and for which reason , as well as others , god seemed to have protracted their lives to so vast an extent . they were such as were eminent for their piety ; as abel's faith is one of the renowned instances , heb. . and enoch is said to walk with god , and was in an extraordinary way rewarded for it . such again were they as were endued with the spirit of prophecy , as adam , abel , enoch , noah . and therefore it cannot in reason be supposed that ever they should think the offering the blood , and burning the flesh of a beast , to be a fit expression of their gratitude to almighty god , or a means to obtain his favour by way of expiation for their sins , without his institution . it is then ( as far as i conceive ) evident , that sacrifices , of what kind soever , were not invented by men . but if they were not invented by men , how came they to be admitted , and at last so much to obtain in the world ? i answer , they were of god's own institution ; and therefore were received by the patriarchs , and accepted by himself . but then it may reasonably be demanded , why they should be thus honoured by a divine legislation and authority , when it is allowed that they are in themselves not suitable to his nature ? i answer , they were instituted as those sacrifices were typical , and had respect to a greater sacrifice , that of christ. and therefore 't is observable , that as almighty god for the comfort of adam , and preventing his despair , ( as has been before shewed ) did immediately after his expostulation with him , and sentence pass'd upon him , reveal his intention to pardon him , and the means by which it was to be procured and ratified , the seed of the woman : so in consequence of this , and to shew their faith in that promise , we read in the next chapter , of their sacrifices and offerings which they brought unto the lord , as a representation of what they for their apostacy had deserved , and should have suffered , had not the divine mercy interposed . now if we have represented this aright , we have a fair account of an expiatory sacrifice , and how it came to take such place among men , and to be so universally received . we have a reason again how and why it came to be framed into the law of moses ; and why those sacrifices and the rites belonging to them , were made a principal part of it , and have thereby a key to unlock many mysteries in that law , and to answer many difficulties about it , when it is a shadow of good things to come . by this means again we come to understand the special providence of god , that this was so much preserved and so universally dispersed and received among mankind . by this means again we have a fair account how the doctrine of the cross , and the notion of our saviour's death as an expiatory sacrifice , came to be soon entertained among the gentiles ; for being of god's institution , as he preserved it , so being thus preserved , it became an excellent introduction , and prepared mankind for the belief and reception of our redemption by christ. to the same original may the first fruits , priesthood , and tenths be referr'd ; the first of which was observed from the time of abel , gen. . and the two last long before the time of the mosaical law ; and therefore are to be derived from an ancient institution . but because it may be thought these instances may be liable to exception , forasmuch as they are sometimes disputed among those themselves that do contend for a revelation , i shall proceed to iv. sort of evidence , which is supernatural , and that is either it self a revelation , or the proof of it ; of the former is prophecy ; of the latter , miracles . . prophecy , or the foretelling of things to come ; whatever time they are to exist in , near or remote . i add this latter clause to it , to prevent all exception , and to distinguish prophecy truly so called , from sagacity , or human providence ; which from precedent observations and proximate causes , may be often fortunate in its conjectures or predictions . but now as to infinite power all things are alike possible and easy , and there is nothing great or little , more or less , with respect to it ; so to infinite knowledge , to which one day is as a thousand years , and a thousand years as one day , all things , the remotest as well as nearest , are alike present ; and there is nothing distant or near with respect to it . and therefore whereever the true spirit of prophecy is , the same power that can foretell what shall happen to morrow , could , if he so pleased , as easily foretell what shall happen a thousand years hence ; since all things are alike naked and opened unto him with whom we have to do . now this sort of knowledge can proceed from nothing less than him , who as he knows all things , so has all causes in his own power , and can foresee how they will operate , and what shall be the event of such operations , or can dispose them to it as he pleaseth , whatever the causes be , whether ( as we usually say ) they are voluntary , necessary , or contingent ; and being thus peculiar to him , and his sole prerogative , 't is no less than a species of divine revelation . and therefore as none can know the certainty of such futurities and events but god ; so none can foretell them but such as he is pleased to reveal them to ▪ from whence it was that plato somewhere calls prophecy , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a communication or fellowship with god. for suppose now we should set before us any epocha or character of time , which the prophecy respects ; the . years from isaiah's naming of cyrus , to his decree for building jerusalem , isa. . . or the . years from the prophet's naming josiah , to the time he defiled those idolatrous places , kings . . kings . . or the . years in daniel's weeks , from his time to the death of messiah dan. . . . what an infinite number of intercurrent passages must there be before it be brought in its proper season to its accomplishment ? and how amazing a sight would it be , if we could lay our hand upon the clue of the prophecy at its first setting out , and follow it , making its way through all oppositions and interferings , to the last period and completion ! but then if we turn our thoughts to the chief subject of revelation , the prophecy of the incarnation of our saviour , as it began immediately upon the fall , and passed along through the generations , for years together , it would be like the dispersed parts of a human body , to the time and state of the resurrection , that are carried safe and entire through all transformations ; and at last when the sea and the grave are called upon to give up their dead , all the atoms and particles are recalled from their several vehicles or tribes they were joined to , and fall into the same composition as before in this present state . much such a subject have we before us , which after various windings and turnings , and an infinite succession of causes and events ; we read , that it might be fulfilled — and as it was spoken by the mouth of the holy prophets , which have been since the world began , luk. . . so that as many prophecies as we have , or the world ever had , so many evidences have we of a supernatural and divine revelation . and this all mankind have had a belief of , as is manifest from the oracles they consulted upon all emergent occasions ; many of which were very ancient , as herodotus tells us that of jupiter hammon in lybia was . i acknowledge that these were full of imposture , and were despised for it by the wiser part of the heathens , such as tully , ( lib. , . de divinat . ) and detected , as eusebius shews , ( praepar . evang. l. . init. & l. . c. . ) and i mention these , not that i esteem them of any authority ; rather the contrary ; but to shew what the world thought of prophecy , and that even those philosophers who diverted themselves with the mistakes and impostures of their own oracles , never questioned whether ever there were any true prophecy ; but always allowed it , and took it for granted . so that the impostures of their own pretenders never engaged them so far , as to call in question the veracity of all prophecy , or to deny it where it was able to justify it self . . sort of supernatural evidence , is miracles . but of that , god willing , i shall discourse afterwards . thus far i have endeavoured to shew , that there has been a revelation , antecedent to , or where there was no written revelation : and the arguments and instances have been such as were proper to those circumstances ; such as we are led to by the light of nature , and human observation : and therefore though they receive light and confirmation from a written revelation , are not supposed to depend upon it for their evidence . and if this point has been hereby made out and proved , we then find that god has at sundry times and in divers maners , revealed himself to mankind by the prophets and inspired persons , from the beginning through the ante-diluvian and post-diluvian times , till the promulgation of a written law by moses . if it be said , that these are far from amounting to a certainty , and from giving us an infallible assurance of a revelation , since some of them are disputed even among those that own a revelation ; as the original of the sabbath , and sacrifices ; and at the most are but probable arguments . . i answer , probability is a fair step to certainty ; and i may after all affirm , that the account here offered is the best that can be given o those instances : . there are such arguments as are taken from the consideration of god's nature ; and there cannot be a stronger , than what is fetch'd from the nature of things . . there are other instances that are equivalent to a revelation , and can proceed from no lower a principle ; such are speech and common notions ; the former of which in the circumstances before recited , must be from divine inspiration , and the latter from a divine impression . . there are those things which when they accompany what we call a revelation , prove the truth and certainty of it ; and being recorded in a written revelation , become of the body of it , and they are miracles . . there are others that are the matter of revelation , and they are prophecies , especially such as are carried along in a continued train , and mutually confirm each other . . there are others that are not only consonant to what we own to be a revelation , but to human testimonies ; and being confirmed by both , are of great authority . all which laid together , give us , i may say , unquestionable evidence , that there has been a revelation , or that god has made himself and his will known to the world by persons chosen out , and inspired , and commissioned by him . and this is a good preparative and introduction for what is to follow , viz. that there is a special revelation , and that revelation recorded and transmitted by writing to the world ; which is a point in reserve , and that will in order be discoursed of . finis . books printed for richard chiswell , and thomas cockerill . rvshworth's historical collections : the third part , in two volumes ; containing the principal matters which happen'd from the meeting of the parliament , november . . to the end of the year . wherein is a particular account of the rise and progress of the civil war , to that period . fol. . dr. john conant's sermons , octavo . published by dr. williams . the possibility , expediency , and necessity of divine revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , jan. . / . at the beginning of the lecture for the ensuing year . founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . to . d r williams's third sermon at mr. boyle's lecture , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * v. postellus , lib. de orig. c. . † herodotus , enterpe . c. . ad nicom . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . rhet. l. . c. , , . pro milone . l. . de nat. deor. & l . de legib. pro cluentio . * clio. cap. , . enterp . cap. . v bochart geogr. saci . phaleg . l. . c. . * praepar . l. . c. , p. psalm ▪ . euseb. praepar . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . lib. . sect. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so theodotion . gen. . . gen. . . gen. . . jude . pet. . . gen. . & . gen. . . . a sermon preach'd at st. mildred's poultrey, january . / by john lord bishop of chichester, and late rector of the said church, upon his leaving that parish. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preach'd at st. mildred's poultrey, january . / by john lord bishop of chichester, and late rector of the said church, upon his leaving that parish. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for tho. parkhurst, at the bible and three crowns in cheapside, near mercers chappel, and ralph smith, at the bible on the south-side of the royal exchange, london : m dc xc vii. [ ] stained. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- hebrews xiii, - -- sermons -- early works to . sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preach'd at st. mildred's poultrey , january . - . by john lord-bishop of chichester , and late rector of the said church , upon his leaving that parish . london : printed for tho. parkhurst , at the bible and three crowns in cheapside , near mercers chappel . and 〈…〉 at the bible on the south-side of the royal exchange . mdcxcvii . to his loving friends , the parishioners of st. mildred's poultrey , and st. mary cole-church . having in the following sermon prevented my self of what might otherwise be the fit matter of such an epistle ; i have no more to say , than to recommend it to your serious perusal ; and to desire you to accept of it as a testimony of that unfeigned love i have for you , and shall be ready always to express , in our common saviour jesus christ ; to whose grace i commend you . i am , your faithful and affectionate servant john chichester . heb. xiii . , . now the god of peace that brought again from the dead our lord jesus , that great shepherd of the sheep , through the blood of the everlasting covenant , make you perfect in every good work to do his will , working in you that which is well-pleasing in his sight , through jesus christ , to whom be glory for ever and ever . amen . being upon the point of leaving this station , in which i have continued for the space of above twenty three years , it neither became me , nor indeed was i willing to pass from it ( where i have found so great a respect , and have had as great satisfaction as any , i think , could have in that condition ) ; i say , i was not willing to quit it , without a solemn farewell ; and which to me is little less solemn , than if i were to leave you and this world together . and therefore i shall at this time so endeavour to speak , and i wish you may also so attentively hear , as if it was my dying-sermon , and what i should preach , were it the last that ever i should preach , and this the last time that ever i should converse with you . the sum of what i should say to you , or desire for your good , is contained in the words i have read . now the god of peace that brought again from the dead our lord jesus , the great shepherd , &c. in which words we have set forth , i. the state which every christian is to aspire after , and that is , a perfection or promptitude in every good work . ii. the means by which that perfection is to be acquired , and that is , by god's assistance ; and therefore the apostle begins with it ; now the god of peace — make you perfect , &c. iii. the hopes or assurance we have of acceptance , and that it is well-pleasing in his sight ; and that is , through the blood of the everlasting covenant ; and of the efficacy of which there is sufficient testimony , when the god of peace brought again jesus our lord from the dead . the main of what i have to say , will fall upon the first of these , and that is , the being perfect in every good work ; which doth suppose that there is no good work but what a christian must be practised in . his obedience must be universal , and what is as large and extensive as the law it self . and as the law which is to govern us would not be a perfect law , were it deficient in any points requisite to be known , or in any duties requisite to be done : so neither is a christian compleatly so , if he be deficient in any good work which that law requires . such as a person is in all points to be , such is the rule to be ; and such as the rule is , such is he in all points to be . he that is a perfect man , is in every state of life alike ; watchful over himself , and skilful in the government of himself ; he is temperate , holy , and humble , patient , meek , and contented : charitable in his opinions and characters of others ; just and honest in his dealings ; useful in society . and he is not only thus extensive in respect of the duties he is to practice , but to be expert in them ; perfect in every good work ; and that being spurr'd on by a fervent zeal for the glory of god , and of doing good in the world , wisely takes hold of such opportunities for exerting it , as fall in his way . and now if we would know what those good works are which we are to be perfect in , and what the occasions are which we have for such good works , and the practice of them : i shall consider you of this auditory , that i am more especially to direct my self to , under a threefold capacity . i. as in a publick relation , and what is usually called a parish . ii. in a domestical relation , as in a more peculiar relation , that of families and housholds . iii. in a personal capacity , and what belongs to every one in particular . i. as in a parish . this is in it self a very useful constitution , and what , were it broken up , and all laid in common without that distinction , we should soon find the want of , in the confusion we should be in . for as it is necessary that mankind should be ranged into kingdoms , and those kingdoms into districts and counties , and those counties into towns and cities ; so it is very convenient , if not as necessary , those cities should be subdivided , and broken into lesser proportions ; that the mutual offices of mankind one toward another , might be the better executed . and if it be so , there is a duty arising from each member of that society to another , and much more to the whole ; and which a person can no more suppose himself discharged from , than he can be a branch of a family , and yet not be obliged to seek and promote the welfare of it . for a parish can no more subsist , and answer the ends of such a prudential and useful constitution , than a family can be supported , without each member of that society do according to his capacity contribute to the good of it . and in the first place , the peace of such a society ought with the utmost diligence to be maintained ; and all prejudices , and passions , and private interests ( the great nurseries of faction ) ought to be laid aside . and no person , how displeasing soever another may be to him in respect of his temper , how prejudiced soever he may be against him in respect of any clashings that have been between them , how repugnant soever their secular interests may be , is to right himself upon the society's disturbance ; but is to behave himself upon all parochial meetings , and in all parochial and common interests , as if they were all of one mind , and as embarked in the same design . in such cases no man is to act like a particular person , but still to consider the relation he stands in to the community ; to know neither friend nor brother on one hand , nor enemy on the other , so as to do wrong to the whole , or to any particular of it ; but in the apostle's phrase , to bear one anothers burdens , and so to fulfil the law of christ , that noble law , that whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , do ye also to them . but there is a farther improvement of this relation ; for a parish is not only a civil , but a religious society , instituted for the service of the church of god , and for the maintenance of religion ; and this lays us under a stricter obligation . in this case , a parish is but another name for a church ; and each member of such a society ought to have a mutual care for each other . our church doth suppose it , where notorious offenders are to be taken notice of , and proceeded against , and debarred the communion , upon good information of their scandalous misbehaviour , till they have given satisfaction ( if publick ) to the congregation . but how could this be , if there were not a society to whom this offence is given , and a neighbourhood that could ( generally speaking ) observe it ? and accordingly , as they are thus joined in neighbourhood by scituation , and in an ecclesiastical society by a parochial union ; so there are acts of religion and worship , which as of such society they are to join and communicate in : and that under a general character , is what we call publick worship , consisting in prayers , exhortations and instructions , psalms , and sacraments . and since these are the publick testimonies of communion , and what we are required by the divine command to communicate in , how much are they to blame that live in the neglect of these or any of these ? of which there are three sorts . some that are of another communion , that join not in what we call parochial ; this is a case i will not at the present intermeddle in farther , than to wish as st. paul in another case , i would to god , that they all were altogether such as we are that do join in this parochial communion ; and that they would examine carefully , and lay aside all prejudices that arise not from the nature of the things ; and that they would think that the peace of the church and the union of christians , are as necessary , as they are beneficial and beautiful ; and that in order hereunto , they would come as far as they can . if this were done , i am pretty confident , that if there were not a union in worship consequent upon it , yet that the differences would grow less , or at least , that the charity would be greater than the difference is . a second sort are those , that are in profession members of our parochial churches , but are in the largest sense non-communicants ; that wholly , or generally , live in the neglect of such duties as are the significations and symbols of that communion ; that do not frequent the publick worship , but loyter away that time , which the nature of our religion , the precepts of the gospel , and the laws of the land have made it our duty to observe : that take it ill if they are not accounted church-men , and yet if you may judge of them by their practice , are the remotest from that character . we call others by the names of their communion , according to what they profess , whether papists or protestants , whether presbyterians or independents , &c. but of what church are they who live in no communion ? that rarely or never appear in our assemblies ; and whom ill weather , or some accident , or other obligations , sometimes bring to these places , and so may be at the best reputed but occasional communicants ? next to these are they that i may call partial communicants ; that are of the church as to one part , but live in the plain neglect of another , no less necessary to be observed ; those i mean that neglect what is called ( from the eminence of it ) the communion . as if it were in their power what to do , and what to leave undone ; and though our lord has said , do this in remembrance of me , neglect it , as it were in contempt of him . and now i am upon this argument , i must mind you of another solemn ordinance of our religion , that if we respect the use and end of it , should first be treated of , and that is , baptism . an ordinance indeed not neglected ; for who is there amongst us that is not willing and forward to have his children thereby matriculated and admitted into the church of god ? but if we consider how it is generally celebrated in private , in the corner of a room , in the presence of scarce so many as will entitle the company to a congregation ; it is far from being a solemnity , or from being treated as a divine institution ; far from answering the end of that institution : for what is the end of that ordinance , but to initiate the person into the church of christ , and to entitle him to the privileges of it ? and where is that society that he is admitted to ? is it not when assembled after the most solemn and conspicuous manner for the worship of god , and for the testifying of their communion in it ? and where is the profession to be made before such admission , where the stipulation to be given , where the promise to undertake the duties of a christian , but where the church is ? and how can all this be done in confusion and precipitance , without any timely notice or preparation , without such an assembly as the nature of the thing , as well as the order of the church , in consequence of it , doth require ? the ordinance is certainly publick , publick in the nature and end of it ; and such ought the celebration of it to be : and the neglect of such a celebration is the less excusable , because it is so easily remedied . but i come not here so much to reprove as to exhort ; and do no farther tax the neglect of such , than as it may serve to awaken them that are guilty of it , to a sense of their duty . o what an honour would it be to almighty god! what a service to our religion ! what a means to sweeten our tempers , and to treat each other with fairness and simplicity , if as we are men made of one blood , as we are christians and redeemed by the blood of one common saviour , so we could all come to join in the same worship . what a glorious sight would it be when we come into the other world , to find all of one mind , no grudgings , no animosities , no sides nor parties , no private or personal interests , no supplanting or undermining , but that all as much agree , as if they were but one ! that is a church triumphant indeed , without spot or wrinkle , or any such thing ! and is not the church here a part of that blessed society , a nursery to train us up to it , and supposed to be endued with the same divine qualities , in a lower degree and proportion ? and how little resemblance is there between church and church , if we divide as if we are under different heads , and had different creeds , and were in no expectation of having a portion in the blessed state above ? whilst , i say , we wrangle , and divide , and censure , and revile , and treat each other like the wild beasts of africa , rather than men , christians , and brethren . these are things to be complained of whereever they are ; but , beloved , i hope , and i may say of some , i know better things of you , and things that accompany salvation . let it therefore be a testimony of the concernment you have for our religion , and of your zeal for the glory of god ; nay , let it be a testimony of the hope you have of salvation in the world to come ; that you promote what you can the peace and union of the church and place to which you do belong ; that you be frequenters of the publick worship of god , attentive hearers of the word , honourers of your pastor that is to instruct you , devout partakers of the holy ordinances , especially of the lord's supper , and the publick prayers , to which the scripture hath annexed special promises and blessings . and for what end is all this required ? to what purpose was it that the saints of old , and the primitive christians , chose to die , and to expose themselves to such deaths , as came armed with the most formidable terrors , rather than not join in the publick communion ; but that this was in effect to renounce their religion ? and shall not we be as careful to do our part when it is so easily and safely performed , and by our attendance on the divine offices maintain the credit of religion against gainsayers , and testify as much as we can , that this is our religion , and what we believe to be the true ? go to the ant , thou sluggard , saith solomon ; and we may be sent to the mahometans and to the heathens , and to those of a false religion , and the disguisers and corrupters of the true ( i mean the zealots of the church of rome ) , to those of other parties , to learn how to honour our religion , and to bear testimony to the truth of it . what a reproach is it to see the fields full and crowded , and the churches too often scandalously thin on the lord's day ? to see on other days what a vast concourse there is on the place of commerce , what crowds pass along by the church-doors , and how few are , in our saviour's phrase , able and willing to enter . how full are our houses of youth and servants , and of others that have in some hours of the day little to do ? and how often the most busy have time to spare , and stand at the same time idle and unemploy'd , when there is publick notice given that the time of divine service is then come ? if we were but prudent husbanders of our time and business , how easily might the publick service of every day , be made , for the most part , consistent with the common affairs of our professions ? and i will appeal to any that have considered and tried it , whether this is not generally practicable ; and i will appeal to those that think it unpracticable , whether they have as carefully computed this , as they have cast up their books , or thought aforehand after what manner to dispose of their time upon any day to the advantage of their own affairs . i would make all allowances that i can , and pass the most favourable constructions upon the urgency of affairs ; and in the conclusion must leave it to every man's conscience ( as the best director ) to answer for themselves . this i am sure of , and what all must allow , that if there was a joint concurrence in the divine worship , that all persons were of one mind , and with one mouth celebrated the divine praises , that the publick worship were universally frequented ; it would be to the honour of our religion and church , and consequently to the honour of god. and if i may speak my own opinion , from the best observation i am able to make , if every one did what they could , if each person would well and impartially weigh his own case ; and those that are governors of others , and have families , would consider how to proportion and adjust their time to their business ; and lay aside what time they could well and conveniently spare , the house and service of god would never be without a laudable congregation . i desire no more in this case , than i did before of others that dissent from us , that persons would do what they can . no man knows what he can do till he tries ; till which every difficulty seems impossible , and every little inconvenience a difficulty , and every appearance shall be an inconvenience . god requires not according to what we have not , but according to what we have ; and has so wisely ordered things , that our worldly business and his service may be consistent ; and we find no inconvenience to our selves , that out of seven days he has reserved one to himself . if this were left at large , and we had no such portion of time set apart by divine institution , but were to do it of our selves , or were required by superiors , we should be apt , i doubt not , to complain , that it was impossible for us to spare fifty two days in a year for such a service , considering the multiplicity of our affairs , and the pressing necessities we were under ; we should ( i say ) be apt to complain very heavily of such a restriction . and yet notwithstanding what this would seem to be if we had not tried , we find it very practicable ; and those that do conscientiously observe it , and rest from all worldly business on that day , do as well dispatch their affairs , and are as successful , as those that do apply as much of it as they can or dare to their own peculiar service . and i am confident , that so it would be here , if we did but try , and endeavoured to order our affairs , and husband our time to the best advantage . we should then , for the most part , find that we have spare people in our families , that may have leisure given them , or which those that are in their own power may take , for the serving of god. who could think but that in these two parishes , in which there are ( if i mistake not ) about seven hundred communicants , there should be so many found as should make up a congregation every day ; and when among the hundred and thirty houses , of which these united parishes consist , there are not much above twenty of them that , of all persuasions , do dissent from us ? whoever considers this , cannot well conceive , that all are alike employed , and have the same pretence to excuse such an omission , as tends in the consequence of it so much to shew our want of zeal and concernment for the religion we profess . the reformation of this depends upon management and consideration . and if upon this they find it unpracticable , i dare be their compurgator , and plead their excuse . but that i am in some measure secured there will be no occasion for . thus far i have considered the first general ; as you are in a society , and of a parochial communion . ii. i am to consider you under a domestical relation , that of housholds or families . we read in the epistles , of a church in the house of aquila at corinth ; which was when there was no place in that city for publick communion , or when it was not permitted in the times of persecution . but however , every christian-family may maintain that character , where the master is a priest , as it were , and presides over it : and as there is a publick service for the publick congregation , so is there a private due from the private , in which he , or some other fit person deputed by him , is to officiate . and the first duty that offers it self to our consideration , is that of domestical , or family-prayer , with which the day should begin and end ; being a just tribute we owe to almighty god for our daily preservation , and for all the advantages we receive from the inspection and bounty of his good providence . without which we do no more than the beasts , who receive , but have no knowledge of their benefactor ; nay , our condition seems to be worse than theirs , who have such faculties and powers as they have not , and are made for society , and reap the pleasure and the benefit of it . and how unseemly is it for us that are under one roof , thus embodied into little societies , that are conversant all the day in business relating to the good of the family , and take no notice of almighty god , the common guardian and patron ? how would it look , and how would the master of the family resent it , if his children , or his servants , should take no notice of him time after time , but where-ever they meet him , pay him no respect , nor obey his orders , though he provides for them , is kind to them , and continually obliging them by his favour and his care ? and what an indignity is it then in the master of the houshold , and all under his roof , to live upon the bounty of heaven , to be preserved in their going out and coming in , their lying down and rising up ; to be successful in the beginning and end of their affairs , through his blessing , and yet to live as if they had no need of , or were not beholding to such a power ? and especially are these of our communion the less excusable , if there be any ( as i doubt there are too many ) that are guilty of this neglect . for these are satisfied in the lawfulness and expedience of using a form ( which some of other communions scruple ) and which they may readily be furnished with , out of the numerous books of devotion that are extant . if it were otherwise , that they thought a form of prayer unlawful , they might , perhaps , plead a disability as to themselves , a want of elocution , a want of words , or thoughts , or assurance . and if it really were so , that there were a disability or incapacity in the person ; and that a form were in it self unlawful , or that they did in their conscience conceive it so to be ; then the plain consequence would be , that there could be no such family-prayer performed by him , and that order of devotion must unavoidably fall , as far as the master is concerned in it . but whenas the contrary to this is true , and own'd so to be ; then there is no excuse to be pleaded : for if he cannot pray without a form , yet there are forms for him every where to be had . the next duty incumbent upon the guides and governors of families , is a due regard had to the behaviour of those under their care , and an instruction of the younger sort especially in the necessary principles of religion and virtue . it is a great advantage a master of a family herein has , and that beyond the minister ; for he is near to them , converses with them every day , can observe their humours , inclinations and demeanor , and so can apply himself in a peculiar manner to them ; and if he prudently manages these occasions , he may do it to great advantage . and especially is this evident in catechising and instructing them ; or if that be too much , that he send them to be catechised , or to hear the catechetical expositions of his pastor : this is no toyl , takes up none of his own time ; and perhaps may be more to their benefit . this neglect , i must confess , is what religion and the publick suffer much by ; as daily experience shews . it is from the want of sowing the early seeds of piety , that the enemy takes the opportunity of sowing his tares ; not only of false principles , but of evil inclinations , and of improving them to their final undoing . here the mischief generally begins , from whence all disorders in families and societies do proceed : and therefore , though the persons themselves are guilty that fall into these evil circumstances , and shall without repentance suffer deeply for it another day ; yet they to whom the care of their education did belong , are also accountable for it . for the governors of families are not to repute themselves to be single persons ( as i have before said in another case ) and at liberty to do what they please , and to use their authority only for the service of their own humour or interest ; but are to remember that they serve a master , as well as others are to serve them , the lord of both master and servant , the common parent of mankind , and therefore have a part to discharge , and are answerable for . and he that shall think he has done all when he provides food and cloathing , or worldly necessaries and conveniences for them , and looks upon himself as concerned no farther , puts his children and servants into the condition of his beasts , which have alike treatment from him , according to their condition . no! they have souls as well as he himself , and his business is to see those as duly cared for , according to his power , and capacity , and the opportunities he has for it . if this were done , that every family were thus a church , and the service of god set up , and a care taken for the education of youth , and the bringing them up in the nurture and admonition of the lord ; what an alteration should we see in the face of things ? what a blessed change in the world ? how much quiet and comfort within doors , and how much order without ? the church and the nation would reap the blessed fruits and advantages of it , and the ages to come would rise up and call that blessed in which this reformation did begin . but on the other side , there is a duty also belonging to the inferiors ; which they should be as careful to discharge ; i mean children and servants , that they be submissive in their behaviour , tractable and obedient , honest and faithful in the discharge of their trust ; as knowing , that though such may escape the indiscerning eye of their master , who cannot observe and act all by himself ( for then what need would there be of servants and subordinate officers ) nor penetrate into their private and clandestine designs ; yet that there is a greater master , to whom , though invisible to us , nothing is invisible : let them remember ( as the apostle saith ) they serve the lord christ ; and therefore be as diligent and just in the affairs committed to their trust , care and management , as if our lord and saviour himself were visibly present , and would also be as sure to discover them to their superiors , as he is to know and observe them . this leads us to the iiid . division , and that is , the state of particular persons , and the duty which every one is obliged to , as to himself , his profession , and station . here indeed we are naturally to begin ; for if we learn to govern our selves , we shall the better learn how to exercise all the parts of a christian , as to other relations . if any man , saith the apostle , offend not in word , has the power over his own will and passions , the same is a perfect man , and able also to bridle the whole body , whether it be the political or oeconomical . but this is the hardest task , for a man may sooner govern others than himself ; notwithstanding all the advantages he has for it , and is , or should be , best known to himself . and if the foundation be not laid here in the renovation of a man's temper , in the mortification of his lusts , and the command of his passions , it must needs slacken and cool his endeavours towards the reformation of any disorders that he is obliged , or is in his power , to rectify . he therefore that will be a good parishioner , a good master , a good servant , and to say all , a good christian , must begin with himself ; and if he be thus converted , he will be able to strengthen his brethren . this will then prompt him forward to lay himself out for the good of others , where-ever he is , and according to his capacity and the opportunity he has for it . he will then be fit for society , who is neither apt to provoke , nor to be provoked by others ; but behaves himself with a seemly and a regular temper . he wil then be just in his dealings , true to his word , and be as cautious of doing any wrong , as any can be of suffering it . he will then live in the fear of god , and not dare to do any thing wilfully , that may offend the divine majesty , how great soever the temptation be ; nor neglect any duty that the divine precept has made necessary , how inconvenient soever it may be to him . for such a one must be conceived to depend upon god in all his affairs , to commit himself by daily and constant prayer to the guidance of his providence , to set him before his eyes , as the spectator at present in this world , and that will be the rewarder of him in another . this is the character i would above all recommend to you , and which i am certain , if you come up to , as it will be the best fruit of my ministry , and of the many years i have spent in your service , so it will be as much to your everlasting advantage ; when both minister and people will rejoyce together in that happy and glorious society we come into this world to prepare our selves for . there is no better sight nor happiness in this world , than to see brethren to dwell together in unity ; and to find such a correspondence and concordance in a nation , city , parish , or christian society , that there be no no breaking in , nor going out ; no reason for complaint in our neighbourhood ; but that by a holy emulation , each of you may strive to outdo one another in the mutual offices of charity and kindness , and to be exemplary to others , or to follow the good example of others in all things becoming a christian , and as those that look for that blessed hope , and glorious appearing of the great god , and our saviour jesus christ. here we are , indeed , a small congregation assembled together for the worship of god ; and to take a solemn farewel , as minister and people , after we have lived so long together in a parochial communion and fellowship . but what is this assembly to the whole national church of this island ( though for convenience it is divided into more than ten thousand lesser congregations ) ? what our little whole , comparatively to the catholick church now existent , and dispersed far and wide upon the face of the earth ? and what is all this to the general assembly of all the faithful servants of god throughout all ages that shall be convened together , when our lord shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired in all them that believe : this we are always to bear in mind . here one generation comes , and another goeth ; but then we that are now divided into several places and ages , shall at once stand before the son of man ; for we must all appear before the judgment seat of christ , that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad . then , and i tremble to speak it , i must appear as your guide and instructor to give an account of my stewardship , and of the flock committed to my care ; and you must appear as disciples , to be accountable for what you have heard and has been taught . as for my own part , i am conscious of my own manifold infirmities , and of the omissions known and unknown that i have been guilty of throughout the exercise of my ministry among you ; must beg pardon of god and you : of you , that you will exercise your charity in covering those faults you may have observed ; for though i can say with the apostle , i have coveted no man's silver or gold ; yet i am far from pretending to the other part of his character . as to almighty god , the words of the psalmist become me to use , if thou , lord , shouldest mark iniquities , o lord , who shall stand ? but there is forgiveness with thee , that thou may'st be feared . it is that which i beg for my self and you . and , o that the consideration of this might awaken us all to a due sense of our condition ! that we may so live and behave our selves in this present state of trial , as that after a short life spent here , we may enter into , and be partakers of the joy of the lord. and for which we have great advantages and encouragements , which are are no less than the divine assistance , which god has promised to bestow upon us , if we sincerely desire it ; and acceptance through the blood of jesus our alone redeemer and mediator . and that this may be the issue of all , and that you and i may meet together , and for ever rejoice in the society of just men made perfect , shall be my , and i hope will be your , constant prayer , according to the advice of our apostle : now the god of peace that brought again from the dead our lord jesus , that great shepherd of the sheep , through the blood of the everlasting covenant , make you perfect in every good work to do his will ; working in you that which is well-pleasing in his sight , through jesus christ , to whom be glory for ever and ever . amen . finis . errata . p. . l. . for would r. will. p. . l. . for corinth r. rome . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e rom. . . cor. . . james . . luke . . psal. . . tit. . . thess. . . cor. . . act. . . psal. . , . an answer to a late printed paper given about by some of the church of rome in a letter to a gentleman. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to a late printed paper given about by some of the church of rome in a letter to a gentleman. williams, john, ?- . the third edition. [ ], p. printed for walter kettilby, london : . reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer to a late printed paper , given about by some of the church of rome . in a letter to a gentleman . the third edition . imprimatur . april . . rev. . . remember from whence thou art faln , and repent , and doe the first works , or else i will come unto thee quickly , and will remove thy candlestick out of his place , except thou repent . london , printed for walter kettilby , at the bishop's head in st. paul's church-yard . mdclxxxviii . the popish paper . it will not be denied but that the church of rome was once a most pure , excellent , flourishing and mother * church . this church could not cease to be such , * but she must fall either by apostasie , * heresie or schism . i. apostasie is not onely a renouncing of the faith of christ , * but the very name and title to christianity : no man will say , that the church of rome had ever such a fall , or fell thus . ii. heresie is an adhesion to some private and singular opinion , * or errour in faith , contrary to the general approved doctrine of the church . if the church of rome did ever adhere to any singular or new opinion , * disagreeable to the common received doctrine of the christian world , i pray satisfie me as to these particulars , viz. . by what general council was she ever condemned ? * . which of the fathers ever writ against her ? * or , . by what authority was she otherwise reproved ? for , it seems to me a thing very incongruous , * that so great a church should be condemned by every one that hath a mind to condemn her . iii. schism is a departure or division from the unity of the church , whereby the band and communion held with some former church , is broken and dissolved . if ever the church of rome divided her self by schism from any other body of faithful christians , or brake communion , or went forth from the society of any elder church : i pray satisfie me as to these particulars . . whose company did she leave ? . from what body did she go forth ? . where was the true church which she forsook ? for it appears a little strange to me , that a church should be accounted schismatical , when there cannot be assigned any other church different from her , ( which from age to age , since christ his time , hath continued visible , ) from whence she departed . to my honoured friend , mr. s. b. sir , i had no sooner perused the paper which i received from you , but i perceived that it was penn'd for the sake of such , as either are not well acquainted with the matters of controversie betwixt us and the church of rome , or with the way and method of arguing . to such as these they are wont to pretend high : to those that are ignorant of the former , they talk of antiquity and universality ; and to such as are unskilful in the latter , of demonstrations , and self-evident principles , of axioms and definitions . but all this is a mere flourish of words ; for if these things come strictly to be examined , instead of antiquity , we shall too frequently find forgery and imposture ; instead of the catholick church , the church of rome ; instead of demonstrations and definitions , sophistry and fallacious arguments . and after this strain is this paper wrote , in which things are so artificially mingled , that they look very speciously to those that do not understand them ; and are so well fitted to work upon the easie , the ignorant , and inconsiderate , that after it had been printed , as i perceive , long since in fiat lux , it is again singled out , to be put into the hands of such as they have a design upon . but i shall endeavour to unravel it , and hope , by that time that i have done , that what is therein said will appear to be wholly insufficient to justifie their church , and acquit it of those crimes it is charged with : and this i shall doe by shewing , first , that the whole is false . secondly , that the particulars are very fallacious . the former i shall make good by these following considerations : i. that a church may fall from what it once was . ii. that the church of rome is not now what it was in apostolical and primitive times ; when it might most of all pretend to be ( as he calls it ) a most pure , excellent , and flourishing church . iii. that the alteration from what it was then , to what it is now , is to the worse ; and that it is thereby intolerably corrupted . if these propositions be proved , then the way taken by our authour will signifie nothing ; since it will not be worth the while to enquire how it is , whether it be fallen by apostasie , heresie , or schism , when it is demonstrable that so it is , that it is fallen . i. that a church may fall from what it once was ; that is , from its primitive purity and simplicity in faith and manners , is evident to any that will read the scriptures , and mind what is therein said of the churches of the jews , sardis and laodicea ; or that are acquainted with ecclesiastical history . and this they of the church of rome are bound to grant ; who must acknowledge , according to their own principles , that we once were a church , when in their communion ; and that call us apostatical , heretical , and what not , since we have forsaken it . ii. that the church of rome is not now what it was in apostolical and primitive times , but is changed in principles and practice . first , in principles , as , . that the pope is christ's vicar ; that is , that he is the universal pastor over christ's flock , and hath a jurisdiction over all churches whatsoever , is a new principle . this the scripture ( which the church of rome of old used to appeal to ) is so far from giving any countenance to , that our saviour expresly cautions the apostles against any such usurpation . luke . . when there was a strife among them , which of them should be accounted the greatest ; he said unto them , the kings of the gentiles exercise lordship over them , &c. but it shall not be so : but he that is the greatest [ or will be great , mark . . ] among you , let him be as the younger , &c and in the . v. saith , ye shall sit upon twelve thrones , &c. not preferring one before the other . and lest what he had occasionally spoke to peter , mat. . . whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven , &c. should be misconstrued , he doth give the same power to the rest of the apostles , both before his death , mat. . . and also after his resurrection , joh. . . and if we would understand the sense of antiquity , as to this matter , i know no surer nor shorter way , than to see what is said by the councils ; for then the fathers may be supposed to speak most impartially and with greatest authority ; and of this i shall give you a brief account . the first general council was that of nice , called by constantine the great , and held an. . which in the sixth canon doth thus decree , that the bishop of alexandria , and accordingly of antioch , and of other provinces , should have power over their own provinces , according to ancient custome , and the custome in that case of the church of rome ; and that none should invade the privileges of each other . the same is said and confirmed in the second canon of the second general council held at constantinople by the command of theodosius the emperour , an. . and farther ratified by the third general council at ephesus , in the year . can. . if we go forward , we shall find that it was farther decreed in the abovesaid council of constantinople , can. . that the bishop of constantinople should have the order of primacy next to the bishop of rome , because it is new rome . and what is thereby to be understood , is sufficiently declared in the th . canon of the fourth general council assembled at chalcedon ▪ an. . in which it is decreed , that the church of constantinople should have equal privileges with that of rome , there being the same reason for that as the other , as it was the imperial seat : and accordingly is there a particular instance given in case of appeals , can. . from this jurisdiction which every church had over its own members , proceeded other canons : as , that those who were excluded the communion of one church , should not be received by another ; so can. . of the aforesaid council of nice . that no appeals should be made to foreign or transmarine churches ; so the council held at milevis in africa , ( where s. augustine was present , ) an. . can. . which canon ‖ bellarmine confesseth was made with a particular respect to rome . to the same purpose the sixth council held at carthage , an. . ( in which also s. augustine was ) passed a decree * . from all which you may observe , . that the bishop of rome had anciently a limited jurisdiction , it was over his own province onely . . that the jurisdiction which he had over his own province was such as all other supreme bishops had over theirs . . that none had a power to transgress the ancient and settled bounds of jurisdiction , or to invade those of anothers . . that the honour given to the bishop of rome ( whatever priority it was that he had ) was not by any divine authority , but as rome was the imperial seat. . that the honour and privilege which it had by that means , was what another was capable of ; for the same was given to constantinople . . that none of these decrees in those general councils were ever opposed by the church of rome , 'till the council of chalcedon . . that at that time the pretences of the pope's legates were universally opposed and rejected . and i may add , . that what was at any time in those days claimed by the church of rome , was claimed not upon any divine authority , but onely upon the authority of the council of nice , ( as it appears from the transactions in the afore-cited council of carthage . ) . what was then claimed under that pretext , was upon a pretended , if not a forged , canon of the council of nice , which was detected so to be by that council of carthage , and their usurpation rejected , as is evident from the acts of that council , and the epistle written by the fathers there assembled , to pope celestine upon it . from all which it appears ( and more i could shew ) that there was no such thing originally , as this universal pastorship , which the bishop of rome doth now challenge , and that rome is therein changed from what it was . and now let our authour ask ( if he please ) by what councils was the church of rome ever condemned ? and you may answer , by the four first general councils . let him ask again , which of the fathers ever wrote against her ? and you may answer , no less than . for so many were then convened in all these four councils . and if this suffice not , we may turn him to the councils of milevis and carthage before-mentioned , and to others also of good authority , besides particular fathers . i have been the longer upon this , not onely because it could not be well comprised in less , but also because if this claim of theirs fall , their cause must fall with it . . another new principle of theirs is , that the pope hath at least , in ordine ad spiritualia , a power over all kingdoms within the church , and of deposing kings in case of heresie , or obstinacy , &c. and of absolving subjects from their allegiance to them when thus deposed . that this is the principle of their church is plain from can. . of the fourth council of lateran , and from the council of trent , in sess. . de reform . c. . where it is somewhat covertly expressed , for a reason which the state of affairs at that time made necessary . that this is the doctrine of their church , is proved beyond all contradiction , by the present lord bishop of lincoln , in his late learned treatise of popery , &c. but that this doctrine of theirs is new , is commonly confessed among themselves , and maintained so to be by several of their own communion , and which any one may so far receive satisfaction in , from what is written by roger widdrington ( aliàs preston ) in his apologia pro jure principum , and his humillima supplicatio ad paulum quintum . . transubstantiation was not originally an article of their creed , as it is now . so it is said by jo. tribarn , * an approved authour of theirs , in primitiva ecclesia de substantia fidei erat , &c. it was of the substance of faith in the primitive church , to believe that the body of christ was contained under the species of bread and wine ; but it was not of faith , that the substance of the bread should be turned into the body of christ , and upon consecration should not be bread. for , saith he , this was not found out by the church till the time of innocent the third , in the council of lateran , where many truths that before lay hid are explained in the chap. of firmiter credimus , amongst which this of transubstantiation is the chief . so also saith peter tataret ‖ . and this was the opinion of scotus * , the great schoolman . now it is supposed that scotus , who lived within years after , must better understand what was the doctrine of their church before it , and what was the sense of that council concerning it , than he that comes about years after , and chides him for so doing , with a minime probandum ‖ . . the doctrine of infallibility , respecting their church as the seat of it , was not anciently known , neither claimed by themselves , nor granted by others . amongst all the directions given in scripture for finding out the truth , there is not one word to this purpose ; and amongst all the disputes in the primitive church , we find no such course taken for the final determination of them , as the having recourse to the apostolical chair of rome . heresies were not then so scarce , nor the confutation of them so easie , as that this relief should be forgotten . and it seems they themselves did then as little understand their own privileges , as they did the principles of faith ; for this was never so much as thought of , in all those councils which were called on purpose for the suppression of heresies , and where the legats of the pope were present : nay to this very day they are at a loss where to go for it , whether to the pope , or a council , or both , or tradition , or the collective body of christians ; that is , they know not whether to give up the cause or to maintain it . i must confess , if i should hear a person solemnly declare , that he hath treasure enough in his possession to enrich the whole world , and should gravely invite all persons to address themselves to him , but in the mean time perceive ( though he hath been of the same mind for several years , ) that he can neither tell where it is , nor is he and his family for all this the richer , or in a better condition than other folk , i should vehemently suspect him either to be a notorious impost or , or perfect lunatick . and when we hear the church of rome confidently asserting its own infallibility , but find withall that she knows not where to fix it , and that its ruptures and differences are in the mean time as great as in other churches , and what are never ended by the way it pretends to , but by plain downright force , i cannot for my heart but think there is for the most part more of interest than reason in the case , and what they themselves do rather live by than believe . but in my mind there is no better evidence that this is new , than that it 's false ; and no better evidence that it is false , than that it hath mistaken . of which , besides what hath been , or shall be farther said of alterations in that church , i shall give you two plain instances , the council of trent ‖ saith , that traditions are to be received with equal reverence as the scriptures ; and maldonat * tells us , that the giving the eucharist to children , was a tradition in the church for years after christ ; which is now condemned ( as he shews ) by the council of trent . again , s. hierom ‖ saith , that the latine church then did not receive the epistle to the hebrews amongst the canonical scriptures : but that is now taken into the number by them , and required so to be under an anathema , sess. . decr. . conc. trid. now infallibility and fallibility are contradictory , and if that church hath erred , ( as erred she hath ) then she cannot be infallible , and so consequently the infallibility of the church of rome was not the principle of the primitive church of rome . i could shew as much of novelty in the doctrines of indulgences , purgatory , the mass's being a propitiatory sacrifice , and of no salvation out of the romish church , &c. but what i have said i think is sufficient . secondly , the alterations are as great in point of practice ; the church of rome differs therein as much from what she originally was : as , . the keeping the scriptures and publick service in an unknown tongue , is new . the first is evident from the translations of the scripture into several languages , and especially into the latine , ( at that time a vulgar tongue ) of which no sufficient reason can be given , were it not for the use of those that understood not the originals . the latter is not onely clear from cor. . but what bellarmine * doth acknowledge ; who saith , that the custome of the peoples saying amen , [ that is to what they understood , ] as they did in the apostles time , continued long in the western as well as eastern church . . worshipping of images , which was first established in the second council at nice , but is so different from and contrary to the practice of the primitive church , that cassander ‖ ( an authour of theirs ) saith , that the christians had not then so much as images in their churches ; and doth farther declare from origen , that the ancients ab omni veneratione ( the very word used by the council of trent , sess. . decret , de invocat . ) imaginum abhorruerunt , that all veneration of them was abhorred . to this i refer the worshipping of saints , which was so little thought of , that many of the fathers did not think that the souls of any should enjoy the beatifick vision , and be in a state of happiness till the resurrection , as stapleton * doth shew . and it seems not to have been an article of faith in the time either of lombard or scotus , the former of which saith ‖ it's not incredible the saints do hear what we say ; and the latter * that it 's probable god doth reveal our prayers that are offered unto them . it was then the doctrine of probability onely , but now all are required to believe it under an anathema , by the council of trent ‖ . as much is to be said concerning the innovation of worship to the virgin mary , of which we read nothing in scripture or antiquity , unless in what was practised by the hereticks , called collyridiani in epiphanius ‖ , that used to carry about her image , and offer cakes and worship to it ; with whom that good father thus encounters : what scripture hath delivered any such thing , &c. let mary be in honour , but let the father , the son , and the holy ghost be worshipped ; let no man worship mary . . communion in one kind expresly contrary to the scripture , and the former practice of the romish church . the former is acknowledged by the council of constance * when they decreed with a notwithstanding for it . the latter is acknowledged by cassander ‖ , who saith , that the roman church it self retained the practice of receiving in both kinds , for above one thousand years after christ , as is evident from innumerable testimonies of ancient writers . to these i might add the practice of saying private and solitary masses , of the adoration of the host , and carrying it about in procession , confession , ( as used in their church , ) &c. but i shall forbear . iii. these alterations are to the worse ; and gross corruptions . for if the pope is not christ's vicar originally , and by his deputation , then he is so far a great usurper . if he hath not a power over kings , to depose them , and absolve their subjects from allegiance to them , then those of them that have used that power have been notorious disturbers of the world. if their church be not infallible , and can no more penetrate into , or resolve and determine points of faith than another , they do deceive and are deceived . if transubstantiation be a doctrine of their own , and not of christ's , they usurp upon his prerogative . if the scriptures are free to all , then their church is guilty of the damnation of all amongst themselves , that perish through the want of knowing and understanding them ; and of all the ignorance in the christian world , which proceeds from that cause . if worshipping images , saints and angels , the host , and reliques , be not christian doctrine , and that these are no lawful objects of such worship , then they are idolaters . if christians are obliged to partake of the wine as well as the bread in the lord's supper , then what are they that deny and forbid it ? in fine , they that doe such things are no friends to the kingdom of christ and the christian world. if all this be true , that a church may fall from what it once was , and be altered to the worse , and that theirs is so , then we need not spend time in disputing what apostasie , heresie and schism is , upon which we may talk prettily and subtilly ; or by which of them that church is faln , as long as faln she is . but yet to clear the matter of all wrangling disputes , i shall consider these things also ; and shew , secondly , that the particulars are very fallacious ; which will appear from the consideration of the several terms . . most pure , excellent , flourishing mother-church ; of all which little or nothing is said in the places of scripture quoted by him in the margin . if we consult the epistle to the romans , there referred to , we shall find , that it was so far from being at that time a flourishing church , that it is there not once so much as called a church . the apostle directs two epistles to the church in corinth , and two to the church of the thessalonians , and one to the churches of galatia ; but to the romans he writes thus , ch. . v. . to all that be in rome , beloved of god , called to be saints ; as if they were yet converts at large , without any other setled constitution , than what was in the house of aquila , which he therefore calls a church , ch. . v. . and therefore salmeron , aware of it , thinks st. paul would not call them a church purposely , because of the factions that were there at that time betwixt the jews and gentiles . tom. . in rom. . disp . . p. . col . . but if we should grant it a church ; yet how doth that , rom. . . prove that it was flourishing , when it 's onely said there , your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world ; and in ch. . v. . ( for i suppose that is the other place he would refer to ) your obedience is come abroad unto all men ; by which doubtless no more is to be understood , but that the conversion of many to christianity in that city was spread throughout the roman world ; and did tend much to the propagation of it , as that city was then the imperial seat. this is the explication given of this place by some of their own writers , viz. rigaltius , in his notes upon st. cyprian , epist. p. . and tolet , who in c. . ad rom. annot. . call it a true exposition , and saith it 's to be understood as thes. . . as for the term mother , i hope he means not that the gospel first came from thence ; for in that sense she was a daughter , and not a mother . and if any church could pretend to any authority from that consideration , it must be jerusalem , which in this sense was the mother of us all . but if he means thereby that she was an original and apostolical church , planted by the apostles , or in apostolical times ( for so tertullian useth these words alike , lib. de praescript . cap. . when he calls them matrices & originales ecclesiae , and again ecclesiae apostolicae ) then such also was ephesus in asia , and corinth in achaia , &c. as tertullian there shews , c. , and . of which churches it will be hard for him to find any thing remaining , and which , while they did remain , he must acknowledge to have faln , and been grosly corrupted . and therefore rome's being a mother church , in this sense , is no security against apostasie , heresie and schism . . apostasie , he saith , is a renouncing not onely the faith of christ , but the very name and title to christianity . this indeed is apostasie with a witness ; but as it is no more than a branch or particular kind of it , so it can be no complete or true definition of it . it being just as if he should say , that theft is the violent and forcible taking away of another man's goods ; which indeed is the highest degree of it , and what we usually call robbery ; but there are other sorts of theft besides ; and though it be never so surreptitiously and clandestinely done , it is as well theft , and a breach of the eighth commandment as the other . so it is in the present case ; the highest degree of apostasie is a renouncing the very name of christian , the turning a renegado , a turk , or jew : but that is apostasie also , when there is a departure from the faith of christ , or from any great article or articles of it . and so far a person may be truly an apostate , and yet retain the name and title to christianity . i must confess , i always took those to be apostates , whom the apostle speaks of , tim. . . that depart from the faith of christ , who yet seem to have continued in the profession of it . and i am apt to believe antichrist will be thought an apostate ; and yet it 's the opinion of many among themselves , that he shall retain the name of christian. but if this will not doe , i must refer him to the bulla coenae of pope paul the fifth , where it 's said in the first article of it , excommunicamus , &c. we excommunicate and anathematise , &c. all hussites , wicklevists , lutherans , zuinglians , calvinists , hugonots , anabaptists , trinitarians , & à christiana fide apostatas , ac omnes & singulos alios haereticos , &c. and all apostates from the christian faith , and all other hereticks , &c. which is doubtless spoken of such as have not , nor are supposed to have renounced the name and title to christianity . so that either the pope in one of his most solemn bulls is mistaken , or this gentleman : and if we take to the former , as i hope he either in modesty , or for a more important reason which he is privy to , will allow , then the church of rome may be faln by apostasie , though she doth retain the name and title , and will needs be the onely church of christ. . heresie , he saith , is an adhesion to some private or singular opinion or errour in faith , contrary to the general approved doctrine of the church . before we admit this definition , there are a great many things to be considered ; as first , that the relation which he makes heresie to have to the doctrine of the church , is not current amongst themselves . for many of them do say , that heresie is nihil aliud quàm error in rebus fidei cum pertinacia , heresie is nothing else than an errour in the matters of faith with obstinacy , as sayrus acknowledgeth in his clavis sacerdotum , l. . c. . n. . and durand is of the same mind ( notwithstanding what sayrus saith of him to the contrary ) as appears l. . dist . . q. . where he makes the respect which heresie hath to the church , to be because the church is constituted , per unitatem fidei , by the unity of the faith : so that according to these , the respect which heresie hath to the church , is onely from the respect which the church hath to the faith : and to find out what heresie is , we must enquire not what the church is , but what is the faith. and if so , a church , even that of rome , may fall by heresie , though she may hold the general approved doctrine of the church . but i doubt , if we should admit the whole , and yet take it in any sense but one , viz. for the general approved doctrine of the church of rome in the last ages of it , that we shall find her guilty in this point also . shall the church be taken for the primitive church three or four hundred years after our saviour , then they are guilty of heresie who will have the pope to be christ's vicar , and to have jurisdiction over all churches ; that do maintain worshipping of images , angels and saints , to be lawful and necessary , &c. contrary to the general approved doctrine of those ages . should we take the church for the church catholick in any age ( as cassander doth , consult . artic. . ) that is , the congregation of christ's faithful people all over the world , then still rome would fall into the same condemnation , since that she is but a little part in comparison of the whole . should we take church again for the romish church in the first ages of christianity , it would then also condemn it self , as i have before shewed . and i see no way for them , even according to this definition , ( which is perfectly one of their own making ) to avoid this imputation , but by stifly maintaining , that they thereby understand the church of rome for some ages last past ; if that will doe ; and then we know where to find them , and what to understand when they talk of the church . . schism , he saith , is a departure from the vnity of the church whereby the band and communion held with some former church is broken . this is as lame and fallacious a definition as any of the rest . for by foisting in that word former , which he after runs upon , he restrains it to one particular branch of schism ; and it 's just as if he should say , a church is an assembly of christians that join in communion with each other in the city of rome ; which none will allow to be a sufficient definition of a church : for that term added , in the city of rome , doth no more than prove that the assembly of christians there met is a church ; but is no definition of a church ; for then no church could be out of the city of rome , and every church , if it be a church , must be in that city , and no where else , if that be a true definition of it . so it is here , the word former added to the definition of schism here given , doth prove no more than that a departure from the unity of a former church is a species and sort of schism , but is no adequate definition of it . for if it is , then no church can be guilty of schism , that doth , how unwarrantably soever , refuse to hold communion with , or doth break off from the communion of a church that was not a church before it . and consequently , though the church of jerusalem had denied to hold communion with any church whatsoever , ( though it were even with the church of rome it self , ) she could not be guilty of schism , because she was the first church , and none was prior to her . and we also should be quit of that blame ( if we had nothing else to say for our selves ) forasmuch as a church was founded here in britain two years before that of antioch ; and st. peter was seven years at antioch before he presided at rome , as baronius saith , an. . num. . and an. . numb . . from whom , and from which time they pretend alone to derive their supremacy . and now this will hold , although the church thus separated from had given no reason or colour at all for it . for according to the definition of our authour , it must be a former church which the departure must be from to make it schism . we may indeed say , that schism is when the band or communion held with any church , is ( without just reason ) broken and dissolved ; because all christian churches ought to maintain communion with each other , where it may be had : but if so , then the church of rome is the most schismatical in the world , that denies communion with all churches that are not in all tridentine points one with her . if you now , sir , reflect upon his scheme and frame of arguments , you will see that they hold in nothing which he produceth them for . for what will it signifie , if it be granted that the church of rome was once a most pure , flourishing church , if she be now abominably corrupted ? what if she was a mother-church planted by the apostles , and watered with their doctrine , and their bloud , when she now preacheth another doctrine than she was taught by them , and hath grosly corrupted that faith which they did there establish ? what if she was a mother-church to some other churches , yet , that as it gives her no authority over those whom she was not in any sense a mother to , so even not over such as she might pretend that relation to , when she is now not to be approached to , or held communion with , without apparent hazard of salvation ; and is faln from those principles and that faith which she at their first conversion instructed them in ? when she is faln by apostasie , heresie and schism . by apostasie , as she hath forsaken the primitive church , and is not now what she originally was , either in faith or manners . by heresie , as she hath received new articles of faith , that were not such before ; and so obstinately persisted therein , that she hath turned the anathema upon all dissenters in those points from her . such articles she hath embraced , and doth now hold , as have been condemned by councils , wrote against by fathers , and reproved by authority . some of these she was particularly charged with , and reproved for ; and in others she is as much concerned , as if particularly charged , because she hath embraced those things which were by them condemned . for if the things and principles were condemned , whoever holds them is as much so condemned by that authority , as if particularly named . as they will acknowledge , that if a church now in communion with them should fall off from them , she is thereby as much under the anathema of the council of trent , as if she had at the meeting of that council been so far faulty , and thereby been particularly condemned . by schism she is faln , as she denies communion with all other churches in the world , whether they were so before she was a church , or were churches converted and established at the same time with her , or that have embraced the christian faith since she did . the company of such she hath left : from these bodies she is gone forth : and these were the true churches which she forsook . so that she will be found as often guilty of apostasie , as there are particulars of faith , doctrine , worship and manners , which she is fallen from the primitive church in . as often of heresie , as she hath new principles of faith , and which the church was not then acquainted with . as often of schism , as there are churches in the world , that she will not hold communion with , onely because they will not embrace those principles , or join with her in those practices which she holds contrary to them , and with them to the primitive church . and thus , sir , i have made good , i hope , what i first undertook , and if thereby any service can be done to you or our religion , it will be a great satisfaction to , sir , your servant . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * rom. . . * rom. . * rom. . * white , defence of his way . p. . * king jam. in his speech to the parliament . * whitaker in his answer to d. sand. * demonst. * fulk in c. thes. sect. . * reynolds in his th . conclusion . notes for div a -e ‖ l. . de rom. pon. cap. . * can. . * comment . in . sent. scoti . l. . dist. . q. . disp . . sect. . ‖ com. in . sent. p. . col . . ven. . and p. . col . . * in sent. dist . q. . ss . ad argument . pro prima & dist . . q. . ss . quantum ergo . ‖ bellarmin l. . de euchar. c. ● . ‖ sess. . d●cr . . * c●m in joh. . p . ‖ in i●a c . &c. . * de verbo dei , lib. . cap. . ‖ consult . artic . sect . . * defens . eccl. cont . whitaker , l. . c. . tom. . p. . ‖ sent. l. . dist . . * in . dist . . q . ‖ sess. . de invocat . ‖ haeres . . * sess. . ‖ artic. . the perfection of the evangelical revelation, a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, nov. . being the eighth and last of the lecture for that year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the perfection of the evangelical revelation, a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, nov. . being the eighth and last of the lecture for that year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill, senr & junr ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. half title: dr william's last sermon at mr. boyle's lecture, . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. revelation -- early works to -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r williams's last sermon at mr. boyle's lecture , . advertisement . having now finished the course of sermons for the year . those of the present year belonging to the same argument , will ( god willing ) be speedily published in their order , viz. concerning the rule of scripture , and the way of interpretation . the perfection of the evangelical revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , nov. . . being the eighth and last of the lecture for that year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : prin●ed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , ser. r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . m dc xc vi heb. . , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son , &c. in which words ( as i have shewed ) there is . . a description of revelation , 't is god's speaking . . the certainty of such a revelation , god spake , 't is taken for granted . . the order observed in it , it was at sundry times . . the perfection and completion of all ; god hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son. under the third , ( . ) i have considered the several ways by which god did reveal himself , as inspiration , &c. ( . ) have shewed the difference between divine inspirations , and diabolical illusions , and natural impressions . ( . ) i am now to consider the several periods before the law , under the law , and under the gospel , and the gradual progress of revelation from first to last , from the lower to the higher degree , and the perpetual respect one had to the other . ( . ) i am to consider , why god did thus gradually and at sundry times proceed in revealing his will to mankind ; and why he did not at the first communicate his will to them as fully and perfectly , as he did in the last daies by his son. and then i am to conclude with the last general , viz. . general ; where i am to shew the perfection of the gospel revelation , and that there is not to be any other revelation till the end of the world. i have here a large field before me ; and many difficult points to treat of ; but because this is the concluding lecture of the year , i shall sum it up , and pass through the particulars with as much brevity as the time will allow ; and with as much attention as i can ; though i must fall short of what the subject and nature of the things to be spoken of doth deserve , and might otherwise , be treated of . ( . ) i am now come to the third branch , and to consider the several periods , viz. the patriarchal before the law , the mosaical under the law , and the evangelical under the gospel . the patriarchal state , is that which extended from adam to the deliverance of the israelites out of egypt , and the giving the law at mount sinai , which included in it the space of two thousand five hundred years , and upward . the mosaical or legal state , was that which extended from the delivery of the law at sinai , to the preaching of john the baptist , with whom ended the time past , and the last daies began ; which included in it the space of one thousand four hundred years , and upward . the evangelical state , is that which began with john the baptist , and is to continue to the worlds end . in the consideration of these three states , we may observe , that there is a great difference between them , and a gradual ascent from the less perfect to the greater ; so that the mosaical is superior to the patriarchal , and the evangelical to the mosaical . when i speak of the patriarchal , i intend to give it all the advantage , by looking upon it as a state of revelation , and not a bare state of nature ; for i have before proved , that there was a revelation from the beginning , and derived down by a constant pedigree and succession , more or less . but what it was , we must in great part rather conjecture , than can certainly know ; especially as to the antediluvian state. for the flood having swept away the whole stock of the ungodly cainites , it was the design of providence that their memorial should perish with them : and so the divine penman contracted that state , and gives us only a breviat of what passed before the flood . we have there the history of the creation , fall , and recovery of man ; and may observe how seasonably almighty god interposed for his comfort and relief , by the promise of the seed of the woman . we may observe further , how for the maintaining of his authority , and the manifestation of his justice and holiness , and to imprint on the minds of men a dread of offending for the future , and to keep up an expectation of the son of god's appearing and becoming a sacrifice in our nature , god established from the very first a course of sacrifices ; by the means of which atonement sinners might have a right notion of almighty god : when his justice and mercy were thus intermingled ; that they might not be encouraged to presume on one hand , nor be thrown into despair on the other . we may observe farther , how god provided for the preservation of religion , and especially revelation , by the longaevity of the patriarchs , and a race of holy men , who were prophets and testifiers of his will ; of whom there was a constant succession ; that by a long conversation between father and son , progenitors and successors , what was wanting in records and memorials , might be supplied . we may observe farther , how ineffectual this course proved in the issue , how degenerate mankind grew , so inflexible and incorrigible , that to purge out this pest of impiety that had infected the whole race , god took up a resolution of discharging the world of that impious stock , and to raise up a new seed from the righteous noah ; and that issued in the flood . this is the short history of the first sixteen hundred fifty six years of the world , the antediluvian state. the revelation , so far as it is handed down to us in moses , was then obscure ; but a revelation they had , and prophets , and those of the higher form : insomuch , that some of the jews hold , that enoch , in particular , was endued with a higher degree of prophecy than moses and elias . but whatever it was , the sum amounted to this , that god was reconciled to man after his apostacy ; that he had established an atonement ; and that in process of time the son of god should in our nature actually appear , and become a saviour to us , and be a propitiation for our sins . but there is a farther branch of this patriarchal state , which is the post-diluvian , after the deluge . here we are in part in the dark as before ; for there were no less than three hundred sixty seven years , at the least , past ( for so long it was from the flood to abraham's departure out of haran ) of which the inspired historian gives little account . all that we have , is the progeny of the sons of noah , and their dispersion , and the division of tongues upon the foolish attempt at babel . the reason of this seems to be much the same as before the flood ; and that was the general depravation of mankind , of which the said attempt at babel was an instance ; and the call of abraham out of the land of the chaldees an evidence . for the reason of that call of his , was the idolatry then growing upon the world ; the infection of which , it seems , the family of sem had not altogether escaped : for this the ancestors of abraham are charged with , josh. . , . and then it was in him that pure religion began to lift up its head again ; and for that reason that he might become an eminent instrument for preserving and promoting it , god revealed himself to that holy patriarch . and this is the third branch of the patriarchal period , which i may call the abraamical state. the first revelation of this was ( as aforesaid ) to adam , which was , that it should be the seed of the woman , ( whom the serpent had seduced , and thought to have brought his ends about by ) . the next opening of this great secret of divine wisdom was , that this seed , or messias , should descend from the stock of abraham , viz. in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed , gen. . . which the apostle applies to christ , gal. . . and to which abraham had a respect in the birth of isaac , when he gave him that name , which signifies laughter , or rejoycing , gen. . . thus our saviour interprets it in that allusion , your father abraham rejoyced to see my day , and was glad , john . . this was the reason why moses did so carefully draw down the pedigree of sem , which terminated in abraham ; passing slightly by the history of his progenitors , and taking up that of this patriarch , in whom the holy seed did more illustriously appear : and why also he so punctually set down the time when this promise to abraham was first made , and which as the principal of all , god did several times repeat to him , and also to isaac and jacob , at the first time he is said to have appeared to them . so that though they had a standing oracle , and had other revelations , yet this of the holy seed was the chief revelation , and which was upon all solemn occasions renewed . but though revelation did eminently conduce to the good of the world , where it was promulged and received , and afforded a much brighter and more certain light than nature and reason of it self did ; yet even here revelation made , as it were , a pause , and the patriarchal state gave way to another which we call , . the mosaical , which had a manifold advantage of the other . as ( . ) that religion here was national , and the people were entire and embodied into one society ; whereas it was otherwise among the patriarchs , as in the case of terah in mesopotamia ; melchisedec , and even abraham , in canaan ; and job in arabia ; where religion and the church was rather domestical than national . ( . ) the state of the jews was a theocracy , and the whole of it , whether as to matters civil or divine , was established by god's peculiar appointment , and under whose immediate regiment they were ; having his minister moses their mediator , gal. . . and god making them his peculiar and propriety , deut. . . . . ( . ) it was a typical state , under which one of greater excellency , and thereafter in process of time to succeed , was adumbrated , i mean , the evangelical : so that their rites , and particularly their sacrifices under that dispensation , had a peculiar respect to the great sacrifice , the lamb said to be slain ( in god's decree , and in the vertue of it ) from the foundation of the world : and which those rites and sacrifices were intended for the farther ratification , and for the preservation of in their minds . ( . ) i may add , there was an improvement made upon this legal and typical state , by the prophetical ; which was enobled by the many illustrious prophecies , more especially concerning the messiah , as to the time of his appearance , his birth , and the place of it , his family , sufferings , miracles , resurrection , ascension , in abundance of circumstances relating thereunto . and when in the declension of the jewish state , prophecy might be expected should decay with it , it on the contrary increas'd , till on the sudden it wholly ceas'd , when the revelation of that kind , and for that season , was sufficient : for what could have been more punctual than what was already revealed ? ( . ) after this there was a long interval of above four hundred years , and a cessation of that prophecy and extraordinary revelation which had continued in that church for the space of above a thousand years , from the time of moses to that of zechary and malachi ; at the close of which it had been foretold , that by the coming of the messiah , prophecy and revelation should revive , and a more plentiful effusion of the holy spirit should then be , than had been ever before . now what should be the reason of this , but that there might be raised in that people the more earnest desire after the approaching of that happy age ; and that they might thereby be convinced that their own institution was not to continue for ever , and that there was a more perfect dispensation which they were to expect , and which was to rise , as it were , out of the ashes of the other . and that is . the evangelical state , which is the close and completion of all ; in which the rites of the law were completed , the types answered by the anti-types , and the prophecies were fulfilled and interpreted by the event . so that the new testament is the evidence and proof of the old ; the one declaring what is to come , and the other shewing that it is come ; both bearing an exact correspondence to each other . i proceed to the fourth branch of the third general ; where . i am to consider why god did thus gradually and at sundry times proceed in revealing his will to mankind , and why he did not at the first communicate his will to them as fully and perfectly , as he did in the last days by his son ? so that there are two questions to be resolved . q. . why god did not communicate his will at first ? q. . why in these last days ? a. ( . ) as to the former ; it may as well be asked , why god did ever promise ? and why he did not actually give at the same time when he promised ? it may again be as well asked , why there was such a thing as prophecy , and that the things prophecied of were not at the same instant accomplished , as they were predicted ? and if that be the question ; it may again as well be asked , why there is such a thing as succession ? why there are causes and effects ? and why all things are not existent at once ? and why all acts are not done together ? for promises and prophecies imply succession ; and to require there should be no promises and no prophecies , is , in effect , to require there should be no succession . ( . ) a promise on god's part , implies the certainty of the thing in its season , as well as a prophecy . a prophecy is certain because of god's infinite power , wisdom , and knowledge , to foresee what will be the effect of such causes , what the events of such actions , or how he will order and accomplish them : and a promise implies besides that , his faithfulness , and that he will infallibly see to the accomplishment of it . and so whatever is promised or prophecied of by almighty god , is as certain in its causes , and shall be in the event , as if it was now in being or now done , or that we had it in actual possession . ( . ) it is as much , if not more , for the honour of almighty god , that there should be a succession of beings , actions , and events , as if they were all existent at once ; and consequently as much to order such beings , actions , and events in succession , as it is if they were present . ( . ) as there are in nature a first and a second , and so on in progression ; and all things appearing in their proper time , order , and course , till by degrees 't is raised to its highest perfection : so it is as accountable for god to make known his will to mankind , to begin and carry it on , from a lesser to a higher degree , as he sees fit ; and upon a strict examination has as much beauty and order in it . and to have all revelation at once , would appear as irregular as for all mankind to have lived and died all at once . ( . ) especially is this , where such revelations are suited to the state of the world , and that the dispensation of one age would not suit the temper and circumstances of another ; of which we have an instance in the jews , who were of that temper , that a burdensome and ritual religion was more fit for them than another more refined and spiritual , and whose external and gorgeous form was accommodated accordingly to it , as under age , gal. . . and therefore it is wisely observed by theodoret , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; that god suited his instructions to every age of the world. and we have good reason to believe this to be so , because there was such a gradual progress in divine revelation , as has been already shewn . ( . ) this is still the more accountable , if we consider that the obligation of mankind arises from the notification of the divine will ; and that according as the revelation of it is , so is the obligation . and therefore those that have no revelation , are not upon the same strict terms with those that have ; nor are those that live under the lower dispensation , upon the same terms with those that have the higher : so the apostle st. peter , of a truth i perceive that god is no respecter of persons ; but every one that feareth god , and worketh righteousness is accepted of him . but this in part belongs to the next question . q. . from hence we may be able in part to resolve the other branch of the question , viz. why god did not at the first send his son to deliver his will to the world , as he did in the last days ? celsus , a great adversary to the christian religion , from the consideration of christ's coming so late into the world for the redemption of mankind , compares god to jupiter in the comedy , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as waking out of a long sleep . but this may as well be objected against any special act of divine providence ; and were there no other answer to be given , this were sufficient . but as there were many prophecies concerning this state of things to be accomplished by the coming of messiah , so we shall find sufficient reason for the justification of divine providence in laying this scene so remote from the first ages of the world . for . by this means we see what a wonderful concatenation there is in the divine operations , and how in an orderly course all events succeed according to his determinate will , and what he has foretold . for there is a history , as it were , of our saviour before his appearance ; and by the description and characters given of him in scripture for four thousand years together , we may be able to prove , that he is the messiah . . it doth not seem that the world was prepared for it before . for if christ had been born and died as soon as adam had sinned , there would not have been among mankind the sense of their condition , and of the need they stood in of a redeemer , and of the goodness of god in providing one for them ; nor of the necessity of the divine power to rescue them , if they had not had a long experience of the ineffectualness of any other course or means for it . . we are to consider , that the benefit of christ's death , looked backward as well as forward , and took place from the first publication of the promise . for ( . ) immediately after the fall , god did promise , that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head ; and this being a promise made to adam , he himself must consequently have the benefit of it : for what advantage or comfort could it have been to him , that four thousand years after there should be a descendent from him that should become a saviour to them that were at that time in being , and that should then and afterward believe on him ? ( . ) we are to consider , that this promise gave adam as much a title to the benefit of such an atonement , and was to him as stable a ground of comfort , as if it had at the same time been actually executed ; or as it could be to any that lived in or after the time that this atonement was offered , and the promise in all respects punctually made good . hence we read in st. paul , of the grace that was in christ jesus before the world began , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of ancient times , tim. . . but is now made manifest by the appearing of our saviour ; and that not in decree only , but in fact ; so the same apostle uses the phrase , the hope of eternal life , which god that cannot lye , promised , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , before the world began ; it 's a promise made in time , and which he there distinguishes from the manifestation of it . so the gospel was preached before to abraham , gal. . . and who in the faith of it , rejoyced and was glad , john . . this is implied heb. . , . then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world ; which implies that all sin , since the foundation of the world , was forgiven with respect to that atonement . so that when there was a promise of such a means for our reconciliation to god , and in the vertue of which the penitent might plead for pardon , it was equally as advantageous to them that believed in him that was to come , from the first publication of that promise , as if they had then had a plenary possession : so that christ might be well said to be the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , rev. . . . i may say , in all appearance there was not a more proper time for the coming of our saviour into the world , and for all the events depending upon it , than that in which he appeared . and that if we consider , ( . ) the general expectation of it , in conformity to ancient prophecies . this was notorious among the jews : so luke . . they thought the kingdom of god should immediately appear ; that is , the kingdom of the messiah . so we find simeon and anna , and others , waited for the consolation of israel , luke . , . of which number was joseph of arimathea , mark . . nay , this or something like it , was got among the gentiles : so tacitus , the roman historian , many were perswaded , that it was contained in the ancient writings of the priests , that at that time it should come to pass , that the east should prevail , and that they should proceed from judaea who should be lords of all ; which was a prophecy of vespatian and titus . suetonius another historian , saith , that it was an old and constant opinion that had prevailed all over the east : this the event , said he , shewed to be meant of the roman emperor ; but the jews applying it to themselves , rebelled . this is agreeable to what is said by josephus , the jewish historian , who saith , that which stirred up the jews , and brought final ruin upon them , was the opinion they had from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some doubtful prophecy in the sacred writings , that at that very time there should arise from that countrey one of themselves that should govern the whole world. ( . ) it was a proper time , because as the world had all along the experience of the inability of all human means for reforming the manners and tempers of men , so in that age more especially , when the wisdom of the world was in its height both among jews and gentiles . when among the jews they were at that time as averse to idolatry , as ever their ancestors had been inclined to it , and were in all the punctilio's of the law as exact and scrupulous , as they were skilled in the letter of it ; and yet our saviour found matter enough to condemn and chastise them for , and their practice was a fit comment on that of the apostle , rom. . . what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh . so st. hierom comments upon it , now the time was fulfilled , when through evil custom no man could keep the law. and if we turn our selves to the heathens , learning is acknowledged to have flourished in the time of augustus beyond any age ; and yet that age seemed to equal it self in vice , not only as the apostle describes it , rom. . . but as it is confirmed by their own historians : so st. augustin describes it , i am not the first that report it , but their own authors ; behold , before the coming of christ , and after the destruction of carthage , the manners of their ancestors were neglected , not as before by little and little , but like a torrent by a strange precipitation ; so much was the truth corrupted by luxury and avarice . now when the world was thus corrupted under the best human means , what could be a fitter season for our saviour's appearance ? and therefore the fathers , as origen and tertullian , triumph'd over the philosophers , and despis'd their artificial methods of vertue , as too weak for so great and noble an undertaking . . it was a fit season , as way was made for the propagation of the gospel by the dispersion of the jews , and the success of the grecian and roman arms. ( . ) by the dispersion of the jews , &c. for as their law did serve to introduce the gospel , to which it had a relation , and of which it was a proof ; so by their dispersion upon the captivity ( whence many of them never returned ) and by other subsequent means , many of the prejudices which other nations had against the jewish religion and nation , were taken off . and this was much furthered by the translation of the old testament into greek ( which was then the general language ) . from whence i am apt to think , that the opinion mentioned by the abovesaid roman historians , did arise . it was , saith tacitus , in the ancient writings of the priests : and indeed their ex judaea prosecti qui rerum potirentur , out of judaea should proceed those that should rule the world , seems to be but the latin of the greek in mic. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , out of thee shall come a governor , as it is in matth. . : or in the septuagint , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that there should be a ruler . and tacitus's way of expressing it , that the east should prevail , is a manifest allusion to the same translation , which renders the word , netzar , the branch ( the name ascribed to our saviour in the prophets ) by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the east ; so jer. . . behold the days come , saith the lord , that i will raise unto david a righteous branch , or the east ; and a king , that king , shall reign and prosper , and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth . now this version having been in whole or in part , undertaken for the use , and at the request of ptolomy philadelphus king of egypt , about three hundred years before our saviour , was in many hands ; and so such a material part as those prophecies could not be overlook'd . and indeed with these prophecies there may be a good account given of those fore-cited places in the roman historians , but otherwise they are unintelligible , as appears by their application of them to vespatian and his son titus , for want of understanding the true intent of them , and the respect they had to the messiah . ( . ) another means was the success of the grecian and roman arms ; the former of which by alexander , and the latter by pompey , julius caesar , and augustus , had opened a way into most of the remote parts of the then known world ; and by which means , and the civilizing the most barbarous people , there was a freer commerce and access . it must be confessed , that the power of god can conquer all difficulties ; and which we have an exemplification of in the gospel , where the barbarians and scythians felt the wonderful power and prevalency of it , as well as the softer and better disposed greeks and romans : the word preached with power overcame all human nature , saith origen . but god doth in the most extraordinary cases , use sometimes ordinary means ; and especially was this observable , that at that very time of our saviour's birth , the gates of the temple of janus at rome were shut , which were only in the time of an universal peace ; and which had happened but twice from the foundation of that city , till the reign of augustus ( though twice before this in his reign , as i remember ) . and this was a very fit season for the prince of peace to appear in , and what in this sence did verify the angels anthem at his birth , luke . . on earth peace , good will amongst , as well as towards men . and so i am brought to the evangelical state ; where i am , th general , to shew the perfection of the gospel revelation , and that there is not to be any other revelation to the end of the world ; so it is here , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son ; which implies , . the close and conclusion of all , it is in the last days . . the perfection of the gospel revelation , it is by his son. . the close of all , it is in the last days . to which all former ages had a relation , and in which , being the last , they were to be consummated . here , setting aside all subdivisions of time ; we may consider the world , as to revelation , under a twofold period , viz. the former and , the latter days . and so ▪ the prophets speak of the last days , as different from what both were before , or what were in their own time . now in these last days , there is a certain part of time circumscribed , which in reason is to have such characters belonging to it as it may be known by them when it was to commence , without which the epocha was not to be determined . so that the first thing to be considered is , when these last days began , and what are the characters by which that time is to be known ? and they are such as these . ( . ) the appearance of a person , that from his spirit and temper , the scripture calls elijah , mal. . . and . . who was to be the forerunner of the messiah , and to prepare the way for his reception . ( . ) the restauration of the spirit of prophecy , which ceased among the jews from the time of zechary and malachi , ( as has been before observed ) and was to be restored in the last days . joel . . acts . . ( . ) many impostors which were to appear ; and who did not appear till about the time of the last days , according to our computation of them ; so john . . it is the last time ; and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come , even now are there many antichrists ; whereby we know that it is the last time . v. matth. . , . ( . ) the last days were , when the messiah himself did appear , called the fulness of time , gal. . . and so it is express in the text , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son. to which we may add the conversion of the gentiles , isa. . . and . , &c. from whence it is evident , that there is sufficient ground for these two periods , viz. the former and the latter days ; and that the latter began with our saviour , and continue to the end of the world , whensoever that shall happen : and therefore as it is called the fulness of time , because it is the completion and consummation of all ; so it is called the close of the ages , ( we translate it the end of the world ) or the last days , because there were none to come after the expiration of this ; and comprehends in it ( as aforesaid ) all the space of time from christ's first , to his second appearance . heb. . . acts . . and so there can be no other time , and so no other revelation ; for as long as the last days hold , so long the present revelation is to continue ; and then there can no more be any other revelation , than there can be last days beyond the last . and this will be confirmed by the next branch . . the perfection of the gospel revelation , included in that phrase , god in these last days hath spoken to us by his son. 't is but reasonable to suppose , that since there has been a gradual progression in revelation from time to time , and from a lower to a higher degree ( as has been already proved ) that the honour of all in the close should be reserved for the son of god ; to whom the prophets were harbingers , and the angels themselves ministers . this is the foundation of the apostle's argument , and the drift of his discourse , in this chapter , beginning with the text , god who at sundry times — hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son , whom he hath appointed heir of all things — being made so much better than the angels , as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they : for unto which of the angels said he at any time , thou art my son , & c. ? now as the son is the last that appears , so beyond his there cannot be supposed to be any other revelation , but that the revelation must be like to himself , perfect and compleat ; and so there can be no other gospel ; and whosoever pretends to another , falls under the anathema of the apostle , gal. . , . if any preach any other gospel than ye have received , let him be accursed . for here it is ; . that we find the great prophecies fulfilled in the messiah ; whose characters , though many , all center in our saviour , as to person , time , place , qualifications , and event . . in him are all the types fulfilled , and all the good things accomplished , which the rites of the law were the shadow of , heb. . . . by him is the most perfect revelation of the will of god made known to the world , of all that god has promis'd and we may expect . . by him have we the most perfect rule , the highest motives , most noble principles , and glorious rewards , and all things that conduce to the perfection and happiness of mankind . so that to any one that reads and compares those several dispensations before spoken of together , as he must acknowledge there is this gradation , so that the christian institution is for the matter and the evidence of it superior to all ; and it will be as evident , that it can be exceeded by none . for it is as perfect as can or need to be ; for we cannot ascend higher in our notions and conceptions of things than we are there taught . we cannot exceed its rules in our practice , nor be defective in any necessary part of our duty , if we advise with and observe it . nor can we desire more excellent encouragements and rewards than are therein proposed , such as are eternal . so that though the law of nature , or of moses made nothing perfect , yet the bringing in of a better hope by the gospel did . heb. . . and now we have nothing farther to expect , no more another revelation than another messiah ; no more than another god to reward us , and another heaven to reward us with . and with this i am to conclude , having passed , by god's assistance , through the several heads i at first proposed in the beginning of this lecture . the argument is the most noble subject in religion ; what has been wanting in the management of it , is to be ascribed to the weakness and imperfection of the instrument : but if there has been any thing offer'd , which may tend to the farther proof and confirmation , the illustration and improvement of it ; it is to be ascribed to god , who is the giver of every good gift . from him must we wait for the blessing and success , and to him be all honour and glory , &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e gen. . . . . gen. . . . . gen. . , . heret . fab. l. . c. . acts . . origen . contr . cels. . . tit. . , . hist. l. . c. . §. . joseph . de bell. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de civ . dei l. . c. . antiquis sacerdotum literis . vt invalesecret oriens . v. isai. . . jer . , . zech. . . luke . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . contr. cels. l. . p. . isai. . . mic. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . heb. . . the truth of the holy scriptures a sermon preached at st. martin's in the fields, april , : being the fourth of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the truth of the holy scriptures a sermon preached at st. martin's in the fields, april , : being the fourth of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. errata: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng revelation -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r williams's fourth sermon at mr. boyle's lecture , . imprimatur , april . . guil. lancaster . the truth of the holy scriptures . a sermon preached at st. martin's in the fields , april . . being the fourth of the lecture for this present year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . m dcxc v. heb. i. , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son , &c. in these words , there is contained ( as i have before shewed ) . a description of revelation , 't is god's speaking . . the certainty of it , 't is by way of declaration , god who at sundry times , &c. . the order observed in delivering this revelation , it was at sundry times , &c. . the perfection and conclusion of all , 't is in these last days by his son. under the second i have shewed , . that god has actually revealed his will at sundry times , and in divers manners . . what are the characters of true revelation . . i am now in order to prove that the scriptures of the old and new testament do contain the matter of divine revelation , and have upon them the characters belonging to it . for the better disposing of what i have to say under this head of discourse , i shall observe , . 't is one thing to assert and prove the matter of scripture to be true , and another to prove it to be of divine revelation . . 't is one thing to prove the matter of scripture to be of divine revelation , and another to prove these books to be of divine inspiration . . 't is one thing to assert that there were once such books so inspired ; and another thing to prove this set of books , which now make up and compose the canon of the old and new testament , to be those very books . from hence arise four questions , viz. quest . . how we can prove the matter of scripture to be true ? q. . how we can prove the matter of scripture to be of divine revelation ? books of mere human composition may contain nothing but truth , without any supernatural assistance ; and therefore though we were never so well able to maintain and prove the truth of the matter , that is not sufficient , unless we can advance higher , and prove the authority and divinity of the matter ? q. . how we can prove those books to be of divine inspiration ? the epistle of clemens romanus was sometime read in the church ( as the apocrypha anciently was , and is now with us ) because of the excellency and profitableness of the matter ; but yet it was not esteemed to be canonical , and of immediate inspiration from god ? q ▪ . how we prove these books , that are now extant and received by the christian church as canonical , to be those books which were once in time past wrote by inspiration from god ? it will be of some use to us in the prosecution of this argument , to consider the first question , concerning the truth of the matter of scripture , by it self , and apart from the divine authority of it . now the matter of scripture is of various nature , such as morality , doctrinal revelation , institution , prophecy and history : of which the greatest part will be here set aside : for it is not necessary to prove the truth of the moral part of it , which is no other than the dictate of nature ; and therefore , though explain'd , confirmed , and illustrated in scripture by many useful rules , principles and observations , needs no proof . that of doctrine and institution , falls in with the divine authority , and so belongs to the second question . prophecy , if yet to be accomplished , is not capable of other proof than revelation ; and if already fulfilled , by the event following and correspondent to the prediction , it is the proof of it self . so that the part now remaining to be proved more especially , is scripture ▪ history ; which is a relation of matter of fact , of what has happened , been declared , or done , in the several periods and ages of the world for four thousand years together , and upwards . under which notion , i do not question but it may be made appear , that there is more to be said for the truth of scripture-history , than for any thing of that kind in the whole world. i don't question again , but it may be made appear , that no authors had greater advantages for information in the subjects they treat of ; nor were there ever any writings that bore upon them more ample marks of ability , impartiality , and care. so that if after all that is to be suspected , nothing of that kind is certain , and we call in question all matters of the like nature whatsoever . but this is further to be inquired into . now of this kind , there are some things to be found only in scripture , and no where else . in which case we have no other way to judge of the truth of it , than by the credibility of the matter , the self-agreement , its concordance with time , place , and other circumstances of action , together with the credit and reputation of the pen-men of it . but there are other things which fall in with other writings ; and then besides the former way of trial , we are to have recourse to such books , to compare them , and determine concerning the truth by such a comparison . so that we have three sorts of proof before us , or so many characters by which we may judge concerning the truth of what the scripture relates : viz. . the credibility of the matter therein revealed . . self consistence and self agreement . . it s concordance with other books of good and sufficient authority ; where such there are . and if this be made out , we have as much evidence for the truth of scripture as is possible to have , in our circumstances ; and where the matters related were transacted in place and time far remote from us . for all the evidence we can have , is to be resolved into testimony , and that testimony into the credibility of the relators , or of the matters related : and if we have as much evidence of this kind as the nature of the thing will bear and admit , we have as much as is reasonable in it self , and sufficient to ground a certainty upon . for according as the nature of the thing is , and the ground upon which its proof and evidence depends , such is the certainty : and as in things mathematical , demonstration is the proof ; and in things natural and sensible , sense is the proof ; and in things rational and moral , reason and argument are the proof ; so in matters of fact ( where we our selves are not present ) testimony and records are the proof ; though for a further confirmation of it , there is the collateral proof of moral evidence , viz. the credibility of the matter , and the persons , into whose testimony and veracity the matters are finally resolved . and beyond this we cannot go , in the evidence for the truth of the matters of fact ; and consequently , if we have this evidence , we have as great a certainty in things of this nature , as demonstration is in things mathematical , and sense in things sensible ; i say , beyond this we cannot go , unless we advance to supernatural evidence ; but that belongs not to this place . so that here we have no reason to doubt ; and where there is no reason to doubt , there is certainty . and if we can be certain of any thing we our selves have not seen , or been present at , we may be certain of what is recorded in the scripture : since there is no evidence for any thing of that kind , which we have not for the truth of scripture ; and i may say we have that evidence for it , which no matters of fact besides have . if then there be any certainty in such things , if any credit be to be given to them ; then there is here a sufficient evidence to ground that certainty and our belief of it upon : and if there be no certainty in them , and no ground to believe them ; then there is no certainty in the world , and no credit to be given to whatever is , or has been allow'd by others in the world : then there is no more credit to be given to the commentaries of caesar ( which he wrote himself ) nor to the histories of the four empires , nay to those of our own nation ; than there is to achilles tatius or heliodorus , than to the vainest romances , the fables of poets , or the legends of the most superstitious and credulous ages of the world . and with all our histories , though never so famed , and commonly received ; we are in no better a condition , than if varro's fabulous and obscure age had been continued , and all the ages were now this day what it was before the olympiads , wrapt up in invention and conjecture . but if there be any credit to be given to such memorials , and that we read approved histories with another sort of appetite and assurance , than we do fables ; and that we read lucan ( a poetical historian ) with another sort of relish than ovid's metamorphoses ; then the like credit is to be given to the scriptures as to any ; and so much the more , as the evidence proper to its kind is beyond the evidence we have for any other writings whatsoever . and this i shall undertake and prosecute , by proving , . that the scripture has sufficient evidence of that kind to ground a certainty upon . . that it has all the evidence that any writings or matters of this kind have , and more . in order to which it may well serve as an introduction to what is to follow , briefly to reflect upon the writers themselves and their qualifications ; upon whose credit and authority there must be confessedly sometimes an absolute reliance . since the relators of matters of fact profess not to write out of their own heads , but to receive what they write from a constant and uninterrupted tradition , or to collect from the best records and memorials , or to set down what is of their own knowledge and observation : and therefore the reputation of their reports and narratives doth very much depend upon their skill and judgment , that they be not abused by false informations , and upon their honesty and integrity in not putting abuses upon the world. as for the ways of information , there is nothing of that kind wanting in the sacred pen-men . for the first writer , moses , lived so near upon the traditionary age , and the things he writes of are of such a nature , as may well be supposed to be deliver'd down without any difficulty from progenitors to posterity , had there been no other means of conveyance ; and especially ( as has been before suggested , sermon ii. ) if we consider the few hands they were to pass through , when at the most eight persons only in succession continued the line of above two thousand five hundred years , from the deluge to the time of moses ; and that the matters were snch as all those held themselves concerned to deliver them down as they had received them . forasmuch as all the prophecies they had receiv'd , which concerned the good of mankind , and of their posterity , depended upon the careful and faithful preservation of these memorials ; both as to time and pedigrees , as well as the matters which the series of times and descents were to be the great supporters of . from hence it was afterwards that these chronological tables , and genealogical rolls were in all times exactly kept , and which upon occasion they might have recourse to ; and that there were annals in future ages that were looked upon as sacred repositories : and from whence the holy writers drew their materials , and to which they do refer , as may be observed in the books of kings and chronicles . but if we add hereunto , that a great part of what is the subject of holy writ , was what the writers themselves had the personal knowledge of , bore a part in , and what happened in their own times ; it gives the greater authority to what they have written . and this was the case of moses as to the four last of his books ; of joshua , of samuel , of the prophets , and of the evangelical writers . so that if we will grant any thing to be allowed to tradition , to records of ages , to reports of eye and ear-witnesses , there is the highest credit to be given to the divine authors , in what they have collected and made report of . and what has been done with so much faithfulness , impartiality , and judgment ( as their composers testify ) that even that what tends to the disparagement of their nation and ancestors , their families and persons , is not concealed , when it might tend to the glory of god , the reasons of the divine proceedings towards them , or the giving any life to the matters they relate . a practice rarely to be observed in other authors ; and when it is , doth give credit to what they report . but the chief thing is the credibility of the matter ( which i shall now proceed to ) . the credibility of the matter , which is a standing character that we are to judge of the truth of a relation by . but then we must judge aright concerning the credibility of it . for that at first sight may seem to be incredible , which upon farther consideration and examination may prove to be credible : as st. paul saith to agrippa , acts ● . . why should it be thought a thing incredible with you that god should raise the dead ? it might seem a thing incredible at the first proposal , as it did to the athenians acts . . but the apostle states the case right , cor. . . in answer to that question , some man will say , how are the dead raised up , and with what body do they come ? thou fool , that which thou sowest is not quickned except it die . and that which thou sowest , thou sowest not that body that shall be , but god giveth it a body , &c. where he first of all confirms it by a like instance in nature , and then resolves it into the power of god. 't is for want of these two considerations , that is , of the understanding of nature , the order , power , and operation of second causes ; and of the power of god , the supreme cause , that we often mistake about the credibility of things ; and judge that to be impossible and incredible , which in it self , and often in the event proves to be possible and credible . and thus it frequently fares in matters of fact , of the credibility or incredibility of which , we are as liable to mistake , as about the possibility or impossibility of effects in nature ; when we judge of other nations and ages by our own , and of what we do not know , by what we do ; and sometimes are so vain as to reason against others experience and observation . thus it was with the ancients , that thought the torrid-zone uninhabitable ; and with others , that accounted the opinion of antipodes fabulous and impossible . hence it is that the errors of former writers are so often corrected by modern observations . but this we may confidently affirm of the holy scripture , that after it has stood the test of above three thousand years in whole or in part ( for so long is it since the time of moses ) and that nothing has been left unattempted by its adversaries to overthrow its authority , it has yet maintained it , so as to be the most exact , faithful , and impartial relation the world ever had . for the better judging of whose veracity , and confirming its credibility , we may observe ; . that a great part of it carries with it its own evidence , and has the common consent of mankind to attest it . such i account the history of the creation of the world , the formation of man , and the degeneracy of human nature , to be . the first of these was universally acknowledged ; nor was the creation of the world ever questioned or disputed , till above a thousand years after the time of moses ( as aristotle , who was of that opinion , acknowledges , de coelo , lib. . cap. ▪ ) . and the last was the observation of all ages . . there is a relation of such things in scripture , as have in them the face and appearance of truth ; and of which no certain or tolerable account can be given by any other monuments of history that are , or ever were extant in the world. such are the age of the world ; the dispersion of nations ; the variety of languages ; the distribution of time , &c. now if the account given of these things in scripture be true , we are capable of solving the greatest difficulties as to these matters . and that they are true , there is good reason to conclude . as for instance , let us consider the instances before given , viz. ( . ) the origine of the world as it is in genesis . i acknowlege there may be nothing in the composition of it , or in the course of nature , to determine this point more in favour of moses , than of the egyptians , chaldeans , or chinese . but to lay aside all other arguments from the novelty of arts and sciences , and the reputed inventors of them ; it is certain that in the account given by moses there is an exact order , the narration begins and is carried on with a strict coherence ; and let us trace it back from the flood to adam ; or from abraham ( suppose ) to the flood , there is a very regular relation of persons and things . but besides the incredibility of the other , of the thousands of the egyptians , the hundred thousands of the chaldeans , and the millions of the chineses ; it all ends at last in fable , in apotheoses , or imaginary gods and heroes , and self-contradictions ( as has been shewn by many learned writers on this argument ) . ( . ) as to the dispersion of nations , and the consequents of it , the pedigree of moses is justified in the names of places agreeing with those of the persons ; as has been abundantly proved by bochart in his geographia sacra . and which would appear to the eye of every reader , if a table was made of the tenth chapter of genesis , and compared with the ancient geography ; and should have been here inserted , were there a place for it . ( . ) as to the distribution of time , there is an orderly progression , both with respect to the genealogies of families , and the several periods from the creation to the flood , from thence to the law at sinai , from thence to the rearing of solomon's temple , from thence to the captivity , and from that to our saviour's death . time and place are good characters of the truth of any matter of fact , as well as good marks and directors ; and carry in them a great appearance of truth where they are to be found . and then none can be presumed to be more certain than the scripture , where the relation these had to the messiah , and each person had to his tribe , and each tribe to its place and scituation , made them to be scrupulously exact and critical . . there are other things that are highly credible , and have nothing difficult to be admitted ; and if admitted , are a wonderful instance of the divine providence ; as in the punishment of profligate and incorrigible wickedness , in the two notorious examples of the deluge and sodom ; pet. . , : so in the preservation of pious persons , such as noah , abraham , lot , joseph , david , &c. but above all is this evident in god's erecting , establishing , guiding and preserving his church , when in egypt , in canaan , though perpetually surrounded with watchful and malicious adversaries ; and recovering so much of it out of captivity as was sufficient in a continued succession to answer the end of accomplishing all the scripture-prophecies in the person of the messiah , that was to descend from the lineage of abraham , the tribe of judah , and the family of david . so that as the ancient genealogies , together with the chronology of scripture , were carefully recorded , to demonstrate to succeeding generations that the world had a beginning , and a late beginning in comparison : so the later genealogies from abraham were very exactly preserved , that so it might appear to all the world , that what had been foretold above years before , was in its order and time punctually fulfilled : which if the genealogies had been lost or confounded , could not have been observed ; and so we had been wanting in a considerable evidence of the descent of our saviour , and consequently of his being the messiah . indeed the whole scripture history is little else than the history of divine providence ; where there is an admirable concatenation of relations of various kinds , but all subservient to the same end ; and were there an extract made of it , and all the events rehearsed , and operations therein described , brought into one entire body , it would be the best commentary on that divine subject in the whole world , and infinitely beyond any human composure . . there are ▪ other things that are difficult , either as to the relations themselves , or the manner and circumstances of them ; but what should no more prejudice us against the truth and certainty of the things related , and much less of the whole , than the difficulties of divine providence should warrant us to deny it ; and for want of not understanding some of its operations , or events , we should take encouragement to deny what we do understand . 't is an excellent saying of st. austin , de doctrina , l. . c. . ( speaking of the divine writers ) where i do understand them , there is nothing seems to me more wisely or more eloquently expressed : but where i do not understand them , there to me appears less of their eloquence ; but yet i do not doubt it to be such , as it is where i understand it . we ought rather to suspend our censure , with the modesty of this father , and for the sake of what we do understand , think the more favourably of what we do not . and therefore , as when we have uncontroulable reason to believe a providence , the difficulties about it are no sufficient reason to call the doctrine of divine providence into question : so when we have so great reason to believe the scripture's relation of things to be true , the difficulties about it ought not to derogate from its veracity ; nor give us the confidence any more to question the truth of scripture , than the certainty of providence . for by this way of proceeding , not only the truth of scripture , but of all other books whatsoever will be overthrown ; nay the plainest and most obvious appearances in nature . and yet of this kind are many of the objections that are brought into the field , and are made to serve in the cause of impiety : such as these , that we don't know into whose hands those books have fallen , nor in what copies such various readings have been found ; or whether there are not more of that kind in other hands . theol. polit. c. . the issue of all which is , that if this will invalidate the truth of scripture , it will also invalidate that of all writings whatsoever ; and so is no more to be regarded , than an argument against motion , which is rather to be contemned than answered . 't is but reasonable then that we should give the same quarter to the scripture , that we allow to other writings . and therefore all objections levell'd against the scriptures , which will equally be managed against any others , ought not to be allowed , unless we will give credit to nothing but what we our selves hear and see : and then to carry on the cause , we must recede again , since there are thousands of cases happen , where even our own senses may be subject to error and mistake . ii. another character for the proof or discovery of the truth of history , is self-consistence and agreement . this is a necessary character , and absolutely requisite to all true history ; for nothing more shews the weakness and injudiciousness of a writer , than that he comprehends not his own design ; and 't is a sign he doth not comprehend it , that contradicts himself , and makes one part to disagree with another . i grant that this alone is not an infallible character of truth , that it is self-consistent ; for where the plat is wholly fictitious and imaginary , there may be an exact agreement throughout the whole : the model may be so regularly squared , and laid out , that there may be a becoming symetry ; and place , and time , and all circumstances made to concur , to set it off with the greater advantage . but though this may be , where truth is not ; yet that cannot be true , which is without it , truth being always consistent with it self . but there is this above all others observable in scripture , that it is a system of several books , wrote by several persons , in several ages , on several subjects ; and yet however different in style and phrase , method and order , are like the several features in the face , that besides the sweetness in each alone , there is what we call beauty , that arises from the mixture of all . thus it is in the sacred history , which has a great variety in it of matter , dispersed up and down sometimes to quicken the appetite , and excite the diligence of the reader , where each has its order and use : but when considered in one complex body , and compared and shewn together , there is such a wonderful agreement between the old testament and the new , the types and anti-types , the predictions and the events , &c. that it makes a very beauteous , lively , and admirable appearance , without any such inconsistencies as may make it liable to have its veracity questioned , if duly consider'd , and seriously examined . i say , if duly consider'd , and seriously examin'd ; for else it must be acknowledged , that there are some appearances of this kind . . but i account not those to be inconsistencies , which in other authors may justly be esteemed errors of the transcribers ; and for which no author suffers in his reputation . as for instance , when the famous historian herodotus in one place saith , that homer lived about four hundred years before his time ; and in another place , that it was about six hundred . this escape doth not lessen his reputation among judicious persons ; but for all that , he preserves the character of pater historiarum ▪ and is esteemed as no injudicious or careless writer . and so if a greater number in scripture is taken for a less , or a less for a greater , when there are sufficient directions therein for the correction of it ; 't is not reasonable to charge this as an inconsistency , and to urge it as a reason for the overthrowing the credit and veracity of it . if it be said , how doth it appear that they are the faults of the transcriber ? a. i answer , 't is apparently so sometimes , as may be observed in the various readings ; which could not be , were there not such mistakes in the transcriber : and where it doth not appear so to be , we ought in reason so to judge , where there are all the appearances of faithfulness , diligence , and observation in the writers themselves . as for instance , what can be more exactly penn'd than the book of joshua , in which there is a punctual account of the scituation and bounds of each tribe , as it was set out and describ'd by joshua himself , the chief arbiter and director of all ; and if there should be found in his book any literal errors , one name put for another , or a different reading of the same names , we cannot in reason judge it to be an oversight of so sufficient , and so careful a writer , but that it might proceed from some one that transcribed it after the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or original copy , in some successive generations , and which in reason 't is impossible wholly to prevent . 't is not here necessary for me to enter upon a debate , how far the providence of god doth herein concern it self in preserving the text free from all corruptions : i am now treating upon this argument humanly speaking , and of the truth of it separately from its divine authority . and admitting there are such petty errors that creep in by such imperceptible ways , though we cannot tell when or how they came in , and have been disseminated into all copies , for ought we know , that are extant ; yet i don't know any reason why they should be charged upon the original and the compiler of it ; nor how the main cause is herein concerned . it is a respect due and given to all authors of any repute for their care and fidelity , that write consistently as to the main , to pass the most favourable construction upon any such little errors ; which if theirs , were not voluntary ; or rather , not to make them theirs , without an apparent necessity for it . and surely we should not then press the case with the utmost severity , and make that , which is in it self , and in all books besides , a venial error , to be no less than a mortal one in the scripture , and to stab its veracity to the heart , and spoil its credit for ever for the future . if it be said there is more reason for this in the case of scripture than in any other book ; because that alone pretends to divine authority . i answer , that for the present is not the matter under consideration ; we are now upon the point of its truth , and content our selves to enter upon this debate , as if it had no pretence to divine authority and inspiration . and so we claim the same favour and right on its behalf , as we do for any other author's credit and repute , of great antiquity ; and general reception . and therefore there ought no such arguments or objections to be urg'd for the invalidity of its authority , which it is not decent or reasonable to offer against other writings ; and we may reasonably claim the same allowance for that which all mankind do give , or in reason ought to give , in things of this nature . . i don't account these to be inconsistencies or contradictions , which do not affect the main body or part of the history ; but that are like a parenthesis in a sentence , that whether inserted or omitted , the sence is perfect and compleat . and therefore when the history of jacob blessing his sons is the subject under consideration ; whether it was as gen. . . he bowed himself upon the bed's-head , or as heb. . . he worshipped — upon the top of his staff ; is not material . and so it may be in many cases besides ; but what real prejudice will redound to the reader by the mistake of any thing of this kind , or what prejudice is there to the relation , when a thing of no moment is omitted or inserted , exchanged or altered ? i say not this as if i despaired of having an account given of these matters ( for that i am sensible is to be done , as in the case before-recited ) but to shew how unreasonable it is to condemn scripture for that which we will let others go away with , free from all blame and censure ; and they shall be good and laudable writers , and their histories admitted to be true and exact , though they have many errors of this kind ; and in the mean while the other shall be sifted to the very bottom , and every molehill be a mountain ; and upon every little supposed defect , it shall be said , it has been weighed in the balance of reason and examination , and has been found too light . thus partial are these sort of persons , while they malevolently lay the right hand upon the youngest , and their left upon the eldest . if indeed the inconsistency were like a disease in the vitals , that affects the heart or the brain , it is to be accounted mortal ; if it did affect the main body of the relation , and had originally proceeded from the author , it would have been a just allegation , and his truth and fidelity , his knowledge , and his care might with good reason be called in question . but that we deny ; and appeal to all the various readings and observations on scripture as our compurgators in this point . and consequently the scripture will so far remain as a true relator of matters of fact , and may compare with , and be deservedly set above all other writings whatsoever ; in which no one man , whose hand pass'd through the whole work , can compare with that to which so many hands in various circumstances , at several times did so exactly concur and agree , as if they had been wrote by one hand and at one time , and were but one intire argument running through the whole . iii. another character is the agreement of scripture with other authors ; when such there are . i may well say , when such there are . since it is evident that there are no writers can pretend to the like antiquity with moses ; and then we must wholy rely on his authority for what he relates . but however , though the most ancient among the heathens are much later than him , and so wanted those advantages for information which he had ; yet they ( so far as they agree with him ) give a confirmation and credibility to what he relates , since they deliver it as the sense of the ages before , and of those in which they themselves lived . it is not here so much to our purpose to enquire from whence they derived the knowledge of the things they relate , whether from the jews , or from the general tradition ( which was best to be known from the eastern parts of the world ) as it is to observe their concurrence in them with the sacred writers . it is indeed probable that the ancient writers of the heathens were ( if at all ) less beholding to the jews for their information , and the later more ; as may be observed from the great difference between the one and the other , the later being much plainer in many things than the former : for the higher we ascend from the time of the olympiads , the more intricate , obscure , and fabulous they are . so that generally speaking , it is with them as plutarch saith of geographers , that rather than leave any vacant places in their maps , fill them up with inaccessible mountains , frozen seas , or monsters . so when such historians would compleat their narratives ; rather than be deficient in it , they insert wonderful and tragical stories ; and like nations that can give no account of their pedigree and original , derive themselves from the gods , or from the earth , and become aborigines . but however , though this be too truly the state of the world for about years from the creation ; yet there is a mixture of fine gold with the greater dross ; and from whence we may extract so much as may serve to confirm what the scripture advances for truth , and we for the sake of it receive as such ; as might be shewn . this is a tract has been often beaten by ancients and moderns , by aristobulus and josephus among the jews ; by several of the fathers , such as justin martyr , tertullian , eusebius , &c. and by many in these days . and it were easy to form a history out of them ; especially if we change but the names , and instead of saturn , read adam ; and instead of pandora , eve ; instead of the garden of jupiter , eden ; instead of ogyges or deucalion , noah , &c. for we should find more of the truth under the disguise of the fable than at the first appears ; and that the former gave occasion frequently to the later . but over and above this , we have a great part of the ancient history of scripture confirm'd by the express testimony of some of their gravest and strictest writers , as the collection that has been made in that way by several of the learned , shews . to go no further than that of moses , who is placed by some of them in the first rank of the chiefest lawgivers , and whose wonders in egypt , and at the red-sea , are not obscurely referr'd to by them . . when there is a disagreement between the scripture and other authors , there is sufficient reason to prefer the former before the later , and to rectify these by that . as for the first years it is acknowledged , that there was elsewhere little else than fable and conjecture , confusion and uncertain tradition , as has been before observed : and who is there that is not able to see the difference between an adam and a saturn , a noah and bacchus , a moses and mercury ; between the building of the babylonish tower , and the war of the giants with the gods ; that is , between the true history and the fable ? who can observe the various accounts amongst the pagan writers , their inconsistencies one with another , their apparent ignorance of what they write about , especially when it concerns other nations or ages , than those in which themselves liv'd ; but must needs surrender up the cause , and own that the one has much the advantage of the other in point of credibility ? so that setting aside the divine authority of scripture , yet it has upon it all the characters of truth , which any book or books in the world can pretend : and if there be any thing necessary more than what those have , to establish its certainty and credibility , that is not wanting . in conclusion , after all the attempt made to weaken its authority , it is with no better success than that of celsus or hierocles , who endeavoured to set up an aristeas or an appollonius , in competition with our blessed saviour ; and opposed their pitiful shifts and impostures , to his approved and incontestable miracles . but there is somewhat farther to be respected . hitherto we have consider'd the scripture as able and sufficient to support it self without any supernatural aid ; and by the sole evidence of humane testimony , and such characters as belong to other writings in common with that : but there is a further point in reserve , and which i had chiefly in my eye , and that is an authority superior to all others , and peculiar to scripture , that i mean of divine revelation ▪ and what for the matter of it was inspired from above . and this , the due consideration of it as an excellent history will open a way to ; when we find not only all the principles , precepts , and means , that are necessary to a virtuous life therein taught and prescribed ; but also admirable examples of it in fact , that nothing might be wanting to animate and incourage us to the like practice . see it in the noah's , the abraham's , the joseph's , the job's , the moses's , the david's , and all the patriarchs of old . see it in the holy apostles , the martyrs and confessors ; but above all in the example of examples , our blessed saviour . here is a history , that fills the mind with the best ideas and images of things , that represents the instances of our duty with all the advantage to our thoughts , that recommends it self to our attention by the importance and profitableness of the argument , as well as the force of its authority . upon this therefore let us dwell , and make it the delightful subject of our most serious hours , which will abundantly reward all our pains , and is sufficient to furnish us throughly unto all good works . finis . errata . page . l. . for composers r. composures , ibid. l. . after glory of god , add to the manifestation of , p. . l ▪ . for them r. the jews , p. . l. . after events add therein ▪ notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e euterpe . c. . vita hom. bochart , huetius , dr. stillingfleet , &c. a true representation of the absurd and mischievous principles of the sect, commonly known by the name of muggletonians williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a true representation of the absurd and mischievous principles of the sect, commonly known by the name of muggletonians williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : mdcxciv [ ] attributed to john williams by nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng muggletonians. christian sects -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a true representatio● of the absurd and mischievous principles of the sect , commonly known by the name of muggletonians . london , printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , m dc xciv . the preface . after that i had , for the use and satisfaction of a private friend , made some enquiry into the principles of the contemptible sect , known of late times by the name of muggletonians , i threw the papers aside , as thinking the time not at all well spent , that i had employ'd in reading their books , and in the examination of what is made up of impiety , nonsence , and absurdities . but however , i was at last prevailed with to permit them to be made publick ; which i did submit to , not so much for the sake of those poor deluded souls that are won over to that pernicious sect , that having no shadow of reason for its support , will not submit to the tryal of it ; and so are uncapable of argument ; but for the sake of others : and to give the world an instance of the power of enthusiasm , and how far it exposes persons to be led away by the confidence or craft of any pretender , how ignorant or selfish soever he be . and of this sort were the first ring-leaders of this sect , john reeve and lodowick muggleton , in the year , . a time of universal liberty ; and which gave an opportunity for the worst of men to vent the absurdest and most infamous errors . the former of these , j. reeve , by profession a baker , pretended that the lord jesus spoke to him by voice of words three days together ; and with such a godlike majesty , that he saith of himself , i did not know whether i was a mortal man , or an immortal god. that the voice told him , that he had given him understanding in the scripture more than all the world besides : and that he had given l. muggleton to be his mouth , and that they two were the last commissioners to the world ; and the two witnesses spoken of revelation th . who exercis'd a commission of an higher nature than those of the prophets and apostles ; and that they knew more , and had a greater power than any of them ; as they could bless or curse , save or damn , to all eternity irrevocably . and therefore , whosoever should oppose or vilifie this their commission and doctrine , would be guilty of the unpardonable sin against the holy ghost . accordingly when these two were tried , . at the old baily , before the ld. mayor fowke ; and ordered to lie in bridewell six months , they gave sentence against the said ld. mayor , the recorder steel , and the jury , after this manner . in obedience to our commission received from the holy spirit , &c. we pronounce you cursed and damned , soul and body , to all eternity . now if we come to enquire into their doctrine , there is nothing more absurd , false , and precarious : as they tell us , god has a body like that of a man , of very flesh and bone ; and that the trinity , or father , son , and holy ghost , are only variety of names : that god the father left heaven for a time , and became an absolute mortal man ; and died , and was buried ; and that during his absence from heaven , elias did there represent him ; and was the protector of god , during his minority in the earth ; and that god was raised from the dead by a compact with elias , who surrendred up all again to him . they say farther , that there was but one angel that fell , and that he entred into the womb of eve by her consent , and there died ; and that cain was the very seed of that serpent angel ; and so was brother to abel , only on the mother's side . and that from him sprung all the carnal seed of reprobates , who were not of the seed of adam , such as cain and judas , &c. they hold farther , that there is no devil at all without the body of man ; and that he is no other than man's spirit of unclean reason , and cursed imagination . nay , sometimes they will determine as positively in matters of history and philosophy ; and tell us from the lord , that the epistles of the apostles were wrote in hebrew , greek , and latin : that the sun and stars are but little bigger than they appear to be : that the sun's eclipse proceeds from its nearness to the moon ; and that no one can foretell eclipses but by inspiration . marvellous discourses ! and which our astronomers and almanack-makers are much beholding to them for . for whilst men of learning in that way thought they went by a certain rule of nature , and constant observation , they think too meanly of themselves . these new commissioned men instruct them better ; and tell them , they write their ephemerides and almanacks by revelation , if they therein infallibly foretell eclipses , as what astronomer doth not ? by this , we have a taste of these new prophets pretences ; and may see that their history , philosophy , and divinity , are much alike , and the apparent fruits of ignorance , confidence , and imagination . but i shall leave these to be handled in the following treatise . the principles of the muggletonians consider'd . in the treating upon this subject , there are two questions to be taken into consideration ; viz. . whether john reeve and lodowick muggleton are sent from god ? and , . whether they are the two witnesses in the th of the revelation ? chap. i. whether they are sent from god ? i here premise , that a man may pretend to be sent , and to have a commission from god , when he is not sent , and has no such commission . so did john robins , of whom j. reeve and l. muggleton say , that he is the last and great antichrist spoken of in the thessalonians . such also were john tanee , bull , varnum , evans , as they confess . so they say the ranters and quakers were false christs and false apostles . therefore they plead , that there was a necessity of the witness of the spirit , because of late and at present so many several antichristian spirits are come forth . from hence i infer , that unless j ▪ reeve and l. muggleton can prove that they are sent and commissioned from god , more than those were whom they grant to be impostors and deceivers ; we have no more reason to believe they came from god , and were sent by him , than they themselves had reason to believe that the forementioned deceivers came from god. for do they say they were sent from god ? so did the others also declare . . therefore we must enquire into the evidences and proofs they bring of their commission . this they grant a proper way . so [ in the book call'd a looking-glass ] ▪ if divers men appear as witnesses , or prophets , immediately sent forth by a powerful commission from the everlasting god , are there not certain divine seals to distinguish between those embassadors which are infallible , and them that are but fallible ? in treating upon this , i shall enquire , q. . what are the evidences they bring ; and whether they are not such as other deceivers have alike pretended to , and even exceeded them in ? q. . whether there are not as great evidences against them , as they have against other pretenders ? if we prove the former , we prove that they have no sufficient evidence ; and they have not those divine seals , which ( as they say ) distinguish between those embassadors that are infallible , and those that are fallible . if we prove the latter , then they are no better than deceivers . sect. i. q . i shall consider what the evidences are which they bring of their divine commission ? and they are these , as i find them scatter'd up and down in their books . . a voice to j. reeve , three several mornings , in the year , . . that their commission is such as never was before , viz. wholly spiritual . . that there is no contradiction , and that throughout there is no point in the book call'd the looking-glass , contradicting it self , nor one another . . because it discovers all irrational opinions concerning god , &c. . because it allows no man to murther another , to cut off the head magistrate , &c. . because it denies all power , spiritual or natural , to be capable to act without a continued light to proceed from a spiritual body , &c. . it 's from an unerring spirit , because they were induced to write a volume as large as the bible , and as pure a language as that is , without looking in any writing whatsoever . . that since the apostles worship ceased , which was in or at the end of the ten persecutions , and above years ago , not a man hath been commissioned till they , j. reeve and l. muggleton , were . these they call infallible grounds . these i shall examine , and try whether they are sufficient evidences , and infallible proofs of a divine commission . i. character . a voice . of this j. reeve saith , the lord jesus by voice of words spake to me , saying , i have given thee understanding of my mind in scriptures above all men in the world , &c. this he makes a necessary and distinguishing character of a true commission ; so he saith of others , for want of a true commission by voice of words from the god of heaven and earth , they do not declare , &c. it is god's speaking plain words to the outward ear that doth make a man a commissioner . now i shall shew this is no sufficient and distinguishing character . . this is no distinguishing character according to them ; for they say others had imaginary and lying voices . but if voices be common , both to true and false apostles , how can it be a proof of the truth of a commission ? and how shall we thereby distinguish the true from the false ? . this is no sufficient and distinguishing character , according to the apostle , if it be alone without other evidence , and much more is it not so , if contradictory to scripture , we have a more sure word of prophesie , &c. saith st. peter . . it 's not sufficient in it self ; not to the persons to whom the voice is said to come : for they may be imposed upon by men ( as pope celestine and others were ) or by evil spirits , or by imagination , as they grant , when they call them imaginary voices . and much less is it sufficient to others that heard not the voice , but only have it from them that say they heard it ; and so are liable to be imposed upon by the craft or imagination of others . so that if they will pretend to a voice for the proof of their commission , we expect to have some proof that they had such a voice , and that this voice came from god. and especially , because they say that they seal up men to eternal life or death irrevocably ; and that whoever speaks against this commission of theirs , hath committed the unpardonable sin , and so is by them pronounced cursed soul and body to all eternity . which being contrary to the temper of the gospel , and what they have no written authority for , they are oblig'd to shew such proof for as is infallible , or else are gross deceivers . ii. character . their commission is such as never was before , as it 's all spiritual ; and as they had more spiritual vnderstanding than all the world besides ; and such as never was reveal'd before . . i answer the pretence to its being spiritual is no sufficient evidence . for they grant that amongst those that were deceivers , there was a great pretence to spiritual and inward voices of power ; to spiritual appearances in themselves ; to spiritual light and pure worship ; to spiritual power and signs , to the being spiritual officers and embassadors . which yet they themselves call spiritual witchcraft , and lying wonders , and counterfeits . and so theirs is no more true or spiritual for their saying so , than those that they condemn . . to plead that they have more spiritual understanding , and that they reveal what was not before , is no more an evidence that it is true , than it may be that it is false . john robins pleaded that he came from god , nay , that he was the god and father of the lord jesus christ , and confirmed it ( as reeve saith ) by great signs and wonders , such as the popes could never shew , to the amazement of many deceived by him , &c. and , without doubt , he would as readily declare , that he had more spiritual understanding than all the world besides ; for the letter of the scripture is silent in it . and this they will grant was such doctrine as never was before ; and consequently it s no sufficient plea , nor by which they can prove their commission to be true , more than j. robins could prove that he was god the father . it is not then what they profess to reveal that is sufficient ; but the point is , whether what they so profess is true ? and that is to be proved by somewhat else , such as scripture or miracles . this shews the vanity of what they so often appeal to : as when they say , this is a true testimony , that he hath sent us by his holy spirit ; because there is none upon this earth that beareth witness unto that man jesus that was crucified at jerusalem , to be the only god and everlasting father , but we only . for so might j. robins have said , there is none that beareth witness but my self , that the trinity of persons is adam , abel , and cain ( as j. reeve saith he professed . ) and so might john tanee have said , there is none that beareth witness , but my self , that there is no personal god. it all rests upon their say so , but where is the proof ? where is the scripture , where the miracles , that they prove their commission , and their doctrine by ? for to prove their commission by their doctrine , is much one as to prove their doctrine by their commission . and yet this absurd way do they take . for ask them how they prove their commission ? they say , because there is none upon earth that beareth witness that christ crucified was god the father , but we . ask them again , how they prove the truth of their doctrine ? they answer , by their commission . . the matter of fact is not true ; for there have been others before them of the same opinion ; so little reason have they to claim the first discovery to themselves ; as i shall presently shew . . it 's an ill sign , that this should be the first discovery , and that for above years , the whole christian world should know nothing of it , as they themselves acknowledge . iii. character , or proof of their commission , is , that throughout the book , call'd the looking-glass , there is no point contradicting it self , nor one another ; which he calls an infallible proof of the truth of this writing . if there was no other proof of a point contradicting it self , than what is here asserted , that is sufficient . for he saith , that to have no point contradicting it self nor one another in a book , is an infallible proof of the truth of that writing . by which argument , every book consistent with it self , would be necessarily true ; whereas nothing more evident , than that a book may be consistent with it self , and yet be false . as for instance , they say that one bull and varnum , and others long before them , have pretended to be the two witnesses in the th of the revelation . suppose we now that those two had wrote a book ( as l. muggleton has done ) and call'd it , a true interpretation of the th of the revelation ; would that have been a sufficient proof of the truth of that writing , that there was no point in it contradicting it self nor one another ? i trow not ; and yet no one can deny but such a book might have been so contrived . and i durst have put it to the venture , whether , if this be true , it would not have been as much a proof of their being those witnesses ; and they might have alike subscribed their book , as he doth his ; viz. by — bull and — varnum , the two last commissionated witnesses . and as this is not an infallible proof of the truth of the writing , so much less of the divine inspiration of it , and of their commission : for a book may in all points agree with it self , and contain nothing but truth , and yet be of humane invention . if a book be inconsistent with it self , it 's to be sure not of divine inspiration ; but it may be consistent , and yet be only of man's composition . and yet they fail in this point ; for it will be a difficult matter to reconcile it to it self : for they say they write from an infallible spirit , which implies the highest certainty , and yet say , i am perswaded in my spirit , and i do rather believe that there was seven hundred thousand , than seven thousand , though the revelation of john doth express it to be but seven thousand . to be perswaded , and to believe a thing to be so , are inconsistent with infallibility ; for that admits no less than i am sure of it . so again , muggleton saith of the angel st. matthew speaks of , that perhaps it was no more to his visible sight ; and speaking of st. john's revelation , he explains it , so it may be said . now these words perhaps , and it may be said , are doubtful expressions , and not reconcileable to infallibility . iv. v. vi. suppose these characters to be true for the matter , yet that follows not that they are of divine inspiration , and infallible . . because then it would follow that all good books and true were infallible . . the th is what others have held as well as they . vii . if the largeness of the book , and the not looking in any writing , were signs of an unerring spirit , then the writings of several quakers , as burroughs and g. fox , &c. might pretend to it , if they may be believed , who often begin their books with the word of god. and so would those of jacob behem , who saith , he writ without humane assistance . and if the purity of the language be a sign of truth and infallibility , then i am sure that the writings of these two are far from being either true or infallible . this , it seems , was notorious in the former edition of the looking-glass , . and therefore l. muggleton doth wisely to lay it upon the abuse it received in the press . but if l. muggleton was the corrector , and was to rectifie those abuses by his own unerring spirit , it would have escaped no better than his true interpretation of the th of the revelation , which abounds with false english beyond number ; and of which i never read a page that wanted it . and even , that very book ( which this is immediately spoken of , viz. the looking-glass . ) after his correction of it , fails in the propriety of the words , the concord , the connexion . in the paragraph just before this bold challenge and the appeal he makes to the purity of its language [ n . ] we find the word tosticated , a vulgar , but a much mistaken word , and is for intoxicated . where is the concord in the phrase , things of such concernment requires . [ epistle . prefixed by reeve ] and men takes upon them . [ p. . n. . ] my brethren that hath . [ p. . n. ] secrets that hath not been reveal'd . [ p. . n. . ] where is the propriety , in neither did he know not what power he was endued with . [ p. . n. . ] and confounded of conscience . [ p. . n. . ] . these are passages i casually met with ; but if any one will have a specimen , let him read l. muggleton's epistle annexed to that book , and try what purity and elegancy is in it . it 's a sign these persons did not understand true english , nor often the sence of what they wrote , that would venture upon this , and produce the purity of the language as a note of an unerring spirit , in the compiling of it . viii . character , or evidence is , that since the apostles worship ceased , which continued about years , and which was in or at the end of the ten persecutions , not a man hath been commissioned till they were . how many things are here taken for granted , which there is not a syllable of proof for ? as , . that there was a time when the apostles way of worship was to cease , and actually ceased . . that this time was at the end of the ten persecutions . . that none was commissioned from that time . . that j. reeve and l. muggleton are now commissioned . after all that has been said , where is the evidence of these mens commission ? they did wisely to lay aside scripture and miracles : as they do . of scripture , they say , the commission of the spirit agreeing with , and explaining of the former commissions of the law and the gospel , differing only in point of worship . and as for signs , they are for those that are spiritual , invisible fire , and burning within ; but as for natural visible signs , they leave them to the first and second commission , to moses and christ . but yet after all , we think we may as well say to them , as they to others ; if thou shalt imagine thy self fit to minister , i would fain know of thee , whether thou art indued with a ministerial power ? doth christ immediately pour forth the gift of his spirit , or cure the sick when thou prayest over them ? or doth he own thee in casting out devils , by thy word ? or doth he own thee by raising the dead , curing the lame , &c. thus far we have considered the evidences , which are such as are no distinguishing characters , and what others may equal them in ; and so we have no more reason to accept them as commissionated , than they had to accept impostors ; and have as much reason to reject them , as they had to reject other impostors . for what is there they pretend to , which impostors have not , or might not have pretended to ? nay , if either be accepted , they are so to be that exceed these in their evidence , as did j. robbins , who shewed many signs , and presented his person to some riding upon the wings of the wind , like unto a flame of fire , &c. and did plague the bodies and spirits of others at his pleasure , in a most dreadful manner , as they report . here was a sensible evidence ; it was conspicuous , he plagued the bodies and spirits of men : but these men pretend only to a voice that one of them heard , and to a power of pronouncing men damned to all eternity irrevocably . sect. ii. q . i shall consider whether there be not as great evidence against j. reeve and l. muggleton , as they had against other pretenders ; which if it be , they are as much deceivers as the others ? . they are deceivers , and have no commission , who contradict , and make void a former commission , without sufficient authority or commission for it . . they are deceivers , and have no commission , who pretend to inspiration and infallibility , and yet have actually mistaken in what they pretend infallibility and inspiration for . . they have no commission , who contradict and make void a former commission , without authority or commission so to do . they say in the title to the looking-glass , the commission of the spirit agreeing with , and explaining of the two former commissions of the law and gospel , differing only in point of worship . . i shall consider how they differ in worship from the former commission ( as they call it . ) . i shall shew , that if they differ ( as they say ) only in point of worship , yet in so doing they do contradict , and so far make void the former commission . . that they differ from the former commission in many other things , as well as worship ; and which are of such consequence , that did they agree in worship with the former commission ( as they grant they do not ) yet those alone would be sufficient to shew that they do thereby make void the former commission . which if it be made good , then what remains for them , but to shew their commission for so doing ; and if their authority for it be not proved by as good , clear , and sufficient evidence , as the former commission was confirmed and established , we have good reason to think no better of them than they did of robbins , tanee , and other impostors . . i shall consider how they differ in worship from the former commissions of moses and christ . of this , let us hear them . this commission of the spirit doth hold forth no visible nor external outward worship , as the other two commissions [ of moses and the apostles ] did ; [ so muggleton 's epistle to looking-glass . ] that is , all visible worship from mens tongues , eyes , and hands , was to be done away ; and is now but as a golden calf of mens own imaginations ; and no more accepted by christ , than the cutting off of a dog's neck . 't is not outward praying , preaching , fasting , or thanksgiving , to be seen of men , but it is an inw●rd , spiritual , silent praying and praising , &c. and yet they grant this visible worship was the way of the apostles , which did last till the end of the ten persecutions ; and which was then in great force so long as that commission stood , as muggleton acknowledges in the foresaid epistle . so that in this point the commission of the apostles , and theirs , are inconsistent . . i shall shew , that supposing they thus differ from the second commission ( that of christ and his apostles ) only in worship , yet , in so doing , they so far make void the former commission . this is granted : for they say , when god doth give a new commission , the old is made void , as with reference to the visible worship . therefore you know , that the apostles commission did wholly thrust out the visible worship which was set up by moses . so likewise it is with this commission of the spirit ; because this commission of the spirit doth hold forth no visible outward worship , as the other two commissions did . they own christ's commission did appoint a visible external worship , but this of the spirit ( as they call it ) doth not , but forbids it ; and so the latter doth make void the former . now then , since their commission doth as much make void the commission of christ , as to external worship , as christ's commission did that of moses ; we may enquire who gave them this commission , or how do they prove they received it from god ? for certainly , they who will make void the commission of christ and the apostles , ought in reason to give as good evidence of a divine authority for so doing , as our saviour gave of his ; and so much the more , as christ is above moses . our saviour did not expect the jews should give credit to him further than he gave them evidence ; and 't is surely then unreasonable to give credit to these persons without it . and our saviour's evidence would have been none , had he only that to say for himself , which these pretend to . would it have been enough for our saviour , when the jews required a sign , to have said , as these do , this is the old serpent that arraigns the glorious god at the bar of thy carnal reason ? no : though our saviour call'd the jews an adulterous generation , because they continued incredulous , after the miracles wrought among them ; yet at the same time , he tells them that there was one in reserve which would convince them , or nothing would ; which was his own resurrection . matth. . . it is not necessary every one sent from god should , in every case , have this testimony of miracles , as it was with john baptist , john . . but had john come to make void the former commission of moses , he must have produced the evidence . and this our saviour did , and so ought these to do ; or else must be reckoned among the false christs , and false apostles . . they differ from the former commission in many other things as well as worship ; and that of so great consequence , that these alone would be sufficient to shew , that they thereby make void the former commission ; and so must be deceivers , if the former commission ; be in force ; and it is in force , if they have no authority to make it void ; and they have no authority , if they have not sufficient evidence for it . sometimes they say , there are six principles , viz. . the person of god. . person of angels . . person of the devil . . adam's condition . . joy of heaven . . eternal death . at other times they say , there are two foundations of all spiritual understanding , viz. the form and nature of the true god , and the form and nature of the right devil . but the things of this kind i shall refer to these heads , viz. god , angels , and men. . let us take a view of their principles that respect god , concerning whom they hold , . that god is not a spirit , but hath a body ; and is very flesh and bone : and so they call an infinite spirit an infinite nothing , a cursed , lying , and imaginary god , and a pretended spiritual god. . that god was in the form of a man , and like unto the first adam from all eternity . . that the words father , son , and spirit , are only variety of names , and are the same godhead , in a three-fold condition ; and that the man christ jesus is the father , son , and spirit in one person ; and that by declaration of the spirit , the addition of two persons more proceeds only from the serpentine antichristian devil in carnal men. . that god the father uncreated himself from his eternal and immortal glory , and entered into the virgin 's womb , and became flesh ; and for a season became an absolute mortal man. . that the man jesus that was crucified , is the only god ; and that the whole godhead died , and was buried for a moment . . that elias was taken up bodily into heaven , that he might represent god the father whilst he went his journey into the flesh ; a and so was the protector of god for a moment , when god became a child , b and was an absolute creature ; c and watch'd over him all the days of his mortality , from his birth to his ascension : d and that fill'd him with all those great revelations of his former glory , when he was the immortal father . e that elias was the god and the father to whom christ said , my god , my god — and father , into thy hands — and to whom he prayed , father , if it be possible , &c. f that moses ( who was also glorified , and never died , but was translated g and elias did represent the person of god the father in heaven ; and were the angels of whom it s said , he shall give his angels charge over thee , lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone ; that is , lest he should at any time be overcome by the temptations of reason , which is the devil . h that christ was raised from the dead by a spiritual compact with elias i ; and that he surrendred all up to christ when he ascended into the right hand of all power k : and all this , they say , they speak by revelation from the holy spirit . l . as to their opinions concerning the holy angels and devils , they say , that the angels are persons in form like men. as to devils , they affirm , . that there was but one angel fell . . that the angels ( cast out with him ) were of his seed and generation , through his union with the entrails of eve by her consent ; into whose womb he presently enter'd , where he died , and became essentially one with her : that cain was the very seed of that reprobate serpent angel ; and so cain was brother to abel only on the mother's side . . that cain , and none but he alone , is beelzebub the prince of darkness , and the father of all the angels of darkness ; and so the two seeds of adam and cain , though mixed together by carnal copulation , yet are distinct ; and so cain and judas were not of the seed of adam . . that there is no devil at all without the body of a man ; so that that devil so frequently spoken of in the letter of scripture , that tempts men to all unrighteousness , is man's spirit of unclean reason and cursed imagination . . as to men. they say , that the spirit of a man is mortal , dies , turns into dust , and is utterly annihilated until the resurrection . and therefore , when solomon said , the spirit returns to god who gave it ; those words proceeded not from the spiritual knowledge of god in him , but from his own carnal reason . and though he was a wise man , his wisdom was not prophetical , nor was he a pen-man of holy writ . . by inspiration from the unerring spirit , they positively affirm the substances of earth and water were from all elements . i shall briefly reflect upon these . as to god. . he saith , god is not a spirit , but hath a body . i answer , . ) the scripture makes a body and a spirit two opposite things ; so that a body is not a spirit , nor a spirit a body . eccles . . . the body returns to the dust , and the spirit to god. so a spirit has not flesh and bones . luke . , . . ) the scripture calls god a spirit , but never a body ; which it might do , if he was a body and not a spirit , or if a body as well as a spirit . . they say , god is in the form of a man. i answer , . ) the scripture saith , god is invisible , heb. . . and as no man hath seen him , so whom no man can see , tim. . . . ) it especially takes us off from all such gross conceptions of him . john . . deut. . . . that the words father , son , and spirit are only various names . i answer . if so , then christ must be begotten of himself , and be in the bosom of himself . he must then send himself , and come by himself to himself ; and be an advocate with himself , and be greater than himself . he must judge no man , and yet commit and take all judgment to himself . and after he has administred the kingdom , he must deliver it from himself to himself . and to conclude this point , he must be the father of himself . . god the father became flesh . answer . quite contrary to scripture ; which saith , god sent forth his son , made of a woman , gal. . . and god sent his son in the likeness of sinful flesh , rom. . . and the word , the only begotten of the father , was made flesh , john. . . and his son was made of the seed of david , rom. . . john . . but there is not one word , that the father was made of a woman , and was made flesh , &c. and became the son. . that the godhead died , &c. just contrary to scripture ; which saith , god is immortal , tim. . . and that he only hath immortality , tim. . . . elias is all fable . let any one read the divine prayer of our blessed saviour , just before his apprehension , john . and see how it would look , if applied to elias . did elias give him power over all flesh ? &c. was elias the only true god ? and would it be eternal life to believe in elias , as the only true god ? did elias give him the work he was to do ? and had he a glory with elias before the world was ? did elias give him the words he was to give to his ? and did the apostles believe that he came out from elias , and was sent by him ? was elias in him , and he in elias ? and were all believers to be one in elias and him ? &c. o horrid blasphemy ! i think that chapter alone is enough to rid any of this frenzy . so one while they say elias , had charge of god for a moment , [ transcend . p. . ] and yet elsewhere , from his birth to his ascension : [ revelat. p. . n. . ] that he was quickned by the compact of elias ; [ transcend . p. . ] and yet by his own power [ general epist . p. . ] as to the devils , they say , . but one angel fell . just contrary to scripture , which tells us of the angels that fell , jude . and this cannot be applied to cain and his posterity ; because , according to these mens principles , they never fell , being devils by extraction and propagation , and not by transgression and apostacy . . that the devil entred into the womb of eve , and there died ; and out of him came cain , &c. the scripture plainly saith , that cain was the son of adam as well as eve. gen. . . adam knew his wife , and she conceived and bare cain . reeve wisely observes , that in the genealogy of adam unto jesus , there is no mention made of cain . this is said for want of knowing that jesus was descended from seth ; and he might as well have said there is no mention of abel : for as abel died without children , so all the posterity of cain perished in the deluge : and it was only the posterity of seth that survived and peopled the world again . . that cain , and none but he , is beelzebub , &c. answer . the same scripture that speaks of beelzebub , being prince of the devils , speaks of him as casting them out , and so supposes beelzebub then in being in his own person ; but that cannot then be applied to cain , who is not in being at all ( as they hold ) in his person . . there is no devil without the body of a man , and devils are only mens lusts and imaginations . answer . . then the devils which the heathens and israelites offer'd their sacrifices and children to , were their own cursed imaginations . levit. . . psal . . . . then the devil that transported christ , and argued with him , and that hurried him into the wilderness , set him upon a pinacle of the temple , must be his own imagination . . then the devils that enabled the young man to break his chains ; [ mark . . &c. ] and that tore and bruised the child , [ luke . . ] and that go about to and fro in the earth , [ job . . peter . . ] and that contended with micbael ; were only the lusts of men ; that is , the lusts of men broke chains , bruised and tore persons , walk'd to and fro in the earth , &c. which is irreconcileable . as to man , they say the soul is mortal , and turns into dust with the body . answer . the scripture on the contrary tells us , that the souls of men are alive after their departure hence . so [ matth. . . ] our saviour proves from that saying , i am the god of abraham , &c. that god is not the god of the dead , but of the living ; that is , god is said to be their god after they were dead ; and that he could not have been , had they not been in being after their decease . this again our saviour's argument shews , mat. . . fear not them which kill the body , but are not able to kill the soul ; where he not only makes the soul and body two distinct things , but so really such , that the one may be killed , but the other cannot . but if the soul was mortal and turn'd into dust , they would as well kill the soul as the body ; and would kill the soul , by killing the body . so luke . . the beggar that died was carried into abraham's bosom , and the rich man was in hell. how ! not as to their bodies surely ; for they were left in this world , the rich man was buried . and this was before the resurrection , for it was while their brethren were alive , v. . and therefore it must be as to their souls alone , that one was with abraham , and the other in hell. ii. they are deceivers ; that plead divine inspiratition and infallibility , and yet have been guilty of self-contradiction ; and have actually mistaken in principles and matter of fact. it has been just before shew'd , that they have grosly err'd in their principles , which are contrary to the word of god. let us then now proceed to their self-contradictions , to errors in matters of fact , by which it will appear that what they say of themselves , that they are infallible , and not guilty of any mistake , is one of the number . . i shall consider their self-contradictions . in one place they say , if any man despise this writing of theirs , he commits the unpardonable sin against the holy ghost . so the general epistle , &c. and yet in another it is , to persecute others for the sake of christ , is that sin. at one time they tell us , that they two were the forerunners of the end of the world , and that this was to be suddenly after they had delivered their message . at another time it is , whosoever shall live to see an end of them two , shall suddenly see the dissolution of the world. by the first suddenly , they are to be understood of what was immediately to come to pass ; for they say john robins , the man of sin ( as they make him ) was to appear a little before the personal visible coming of christ . and that the dissolution of the world was presaged by the many fires then happen'd in london ; and by the condition of the people . now this message of theirs ( which the end of the world was suddenly to follow ) was declared , as appears by their remonstrance , which is above years since : and reeve has been dead above years ; for it was before muggleton reprinted the book call'd his looking-glass , . but why should we wait the end of these two ? for if they be the witnesses in the revelation , they are to die by the hands of violence , and to rise again , and to ascend up into heaven in the sight of their enemies . and muggleton may as well tell us , that it was so with john reeve ; as he doth that moses was translated ; of whom the scripture saith , that he died and was buried . but let us proceed to their palpable mistakes , and which yet they affirm to be true , as well as themselves to be infallible . and this in the first place i take to be one , that they affirm , that they had more knowledge in the scriptures than all the men of the world besides ; and yet every where betray the grossest ignorance in them . . as first of all , when they say that moses was translated , who , the scripture saith , died and was buried , deut. . , . . muggleton supposes matthew to have seen the angel at our saviour's resurrection ; and gives it as a reason why he speaks but of one ; saith he , perhaps he was no more to his ( matthew 's ) visible sight . . he saith , that the souldiers did see the natural vail of the temple rent from the bottom to the top : whereas the vail was in the most inward part of the temple , and the souldiers were at mount calvary , watching the body of jesus . . he saith , we read not of cain in the genealogy from adam to jesus : forgetting that jesus was not descended from cain , but seth. . we may add to this , gross ignorance , when he affirms , that the apostles epistles were written either in hebrew , greek , or latin ; and for the most in greek and latin. [ revelat. ch . . n. , . ] whereas those epistles were written in greek only . . he affirms , that the roman catholicks were the first professors of the faith of christ , and of the apostles . whereas it is notorious in scripture , that the jews converted were the first professors of it ; and then the gentiles in judea . let us proceed to another sort of mistakes . . they say , the first sort of persons that affirm the holy one of israel to consist of three persons , are athanasius , socinus , alias john biddle . as if athanasius and socinus were of the same opinion ; whereas athanasius was a zealous assertor of the trinity ; and socinus and biddle oppugners of it . and as for socinus , he would not allow the holy spirit to be a person at all ; and biddle would have him only a created angel , and so not god. . they affirm that no one ever taught their principles , as that god the father died , and that god had a body , and was in the form of a man , &c. whereas there is hardly any thing new , but that there have been some as wild and fanciful as themselves in past ages . as , ( ) the anthropomorphites , and audians , and manichees held , that god had a human body . ( . ) that there was but one person in the deity , only called by different names ; so held the noetians , colarbasians , and sabellians . ( . ) that the father suffer'd ; so the cataphrygians , sabellians ( called therefore patropassiani ) and that the divinity of christ suffer'd ; so the theopaschites . ( . ) that the soul died with the body ; and that there was no resurrection of the body ; so the valentinians , manichees , &c. ( . ) that the wicked are of the posterity of cain . so the valentinians and sethites . without raking farther into this matter , this is sufficient to shew , that they are not the first broachers of these doctrines . . they affirm , that the reason of the eclipse of the moon , is through her near conjunction with the sun ; whereas it 's manifest , that it is when it 's opposite to the sun ; and that the earth is between them . . they affirm , that no man can know the time of eclipses , but by inspiration : whereas they may be as well foretold , as the time the sun will rise at to morrow . . he positively affirms from god , that the bodies of the sun , moon , and stars , are in compass not much bigger than they appear to our natural sight : whereas it's evident on the contrary , that every thing diminishes in its appearance according to the degree of its elevation : and consequently those heavenly bodies , being vastly remote from the earth , must be vastly greater than they appear to the eye . . he affirms , that the sun , moon , and stars neither borrow , nor lend light to one another : whereas we see plainly that the moon borrows light from the sun ; and that , according as the earth is between it and the sun , so it 's proportionably obscured . . he affirms positively from the lord , that the sun , moon , and stars are only in one firmament : whereas it's evident on the contrary , . that the moon is in an orb lower than the sun , and both of them lower than the stars . . that there are different motions , a slower and swifter in the planets ; and that those called fixed stars only move all alike , and are in the same firmament . whether these are errors or no , let all men judge ; and if so , what becomes of their infallibility ? what of their pretence to divine illumination ? chap. ii. it remains now to proceed to to the second question , viz. q. whether j. reeve and l. muggleton are the two witnesses spoken of in the th of the revelation ? this they both do avow , and l. muggleton has wrote a comment upon that chapter , in his way , foolish and absurd enough , to try how he can work it to his purpose . but like one that is not in himself over confident of his performance ; he sometimes shrinks from it , and comes off with a may be : as , we may be said to be those two olive trees ; and the two witnesses may be said to have finished , &c. now what more sneaking and pitiful ! after they have boldly challeng'd this character to themselves , to give it over again , and retire from it , as if they fainted under a distrust , and the fear of inconsistencies in it . as a specimen of which , i shall compare the text of scripture and his exposition together . revelation , ch. . text . chap. , &c. exposition . ver. . i will give power unto my two witnesses , and they shall prophesie one thousand two hundred and sixty days , cloathed in sackcloth . v. . they are the two olive-trees , and the two candlesticks standing before the god of the earth . we , j. reeve and l. muggleton , shall prophesie concerning the spiritual estate of mankind to eternity , and of the end of the world. olive trees , because of the oyl of joy in our doctrine . candlesticks , because god hath put the commission of his spirit into us , which is light. v. . if any man will hurt them , a fire proceedeth out of their mouth , and devoureth their enemies ; and if any man will hurt them , he must in this manner be killed . fire proceedeth , to pronounce blessing and cursing to eternity . v. . these have power to shut heaven , that it rain not in the days of their prophesie ; and have power over waters to turn them into blood , and to smite the earth with all plagues , as often as they will. to shut heaven ; that is , the heaven of mens hearts . that it rain not ; that is , after the sentence of eternal death , it prevents the motion of the spirit . turns water into blood ; that is , the motions of peace and hope of mens souls ( which are as water to drink ) into wrath , and so it becomes a spiritual plague . v. . and when they shall have finished their testimony , the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit , shall make war against them , and shall overcome them , and kill them . finished their testimony ; that is , the doctrine of truth , which is , that jesus christ is god the father , son , and spirit , &c. the beast ; that is , the spirit of reason in the lord mayor , aldermen , and jury . bottomless pit ; that is , the pit of their imagination . shall kill them ; that is , would have killed us , if their law would have done it . v. . and their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city , which spiritually is called sodom and egypt , where also our lord was crucified . dead bodies ; that is , the letter of scripture . in the streets of the city ; that is , the hearts of men. v. . and they of the people , and kindred , and tongues , and nations , shall see their dead bodies three days and a half , and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves . for the meaning of this , he refers us to what was before , and that i find in ch . , . the people ; that is , the jews who owned the letter of the law. gentiles ; that is , those that owned the letter of the apostles , that is , the roman emperours , which overcame the nation of the jews , which was in the destruction of jerusalem , which was in the ten persecutions . three days and a half ; that is , years ; for so long the letter of scripture lay dead . not suffer their bodies to be buried ; because the jews and gentiles knew better what to do with the letter than the spirit . and so the roman catholicks , and those that sprung from them , have seen the dead bodies of the scripture lie dead years . v. . and they that dwell on the earth shall rejoyce over them , and make merry , and shall send gifts one to another , because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth . they rejoyced over the letter of the scriptures ; the spirit and life of them being put to death . and now they looked upon themselves as very sure , because there were none left upon earth that had a commission to torment them . v. . and after three days and a half , the spirit of life from god enter'd into them , and they stood upon their feet , and great fear fell upon them which saw them . the spirit ; that is , the commission of the spirit enter'd into the letter of the law and gospel ; and by a true interpretation they made the dead letter stand upon its feet , and that kills the spirit of reason with death eternal ; which it never did this years , till the year . great fear ; so as to convince some , and make them silent : others were filled so with wrath , as to be damn'd to eternity ; others receiv'd it to eternal happiness . v. . and they heard a great voice from heaven , saying unto them , come up hither . and they ascended up to heaven in a cloud , and their enemies beheld them . of this blank . here he seems to be at a loss . i shall now draw all this together , and the sum of the whole is this . that j. reeve and l. muggleton are the two witnesses , the olive trees , and candlesticks spoken of in this chapter . that these two were to prophesie days , beginning in february , . and had power to save and damn irrevocably to all eternity , &c. that upon declaring this commission , the beast out of the bottomless pit , that is , the ld. mayor fowk , the recorder , and jury , out of the pit of their imagination , made war against these two aforesaid witnesses , . and killed them ; that is , the letter of the scripture . and their dead bodies , which is the letter of the scripture , lay dead in the streets of the hearts of men. and the people and kindred saw the dead letter of the scripture lie dead three days and a half , or years , and rejoyced at it . but at the end of the years , in which the bodies of the witnesses , or the letter of the scripture , had lay dead , the spirit entered into them , by the commission given to j. reeve and l. muggleton , . and so the bodies of the witnesses , or letter of the scripture , stood up again . and it should have been added , that the witnesses ascended up into heaven in a cloud , and their enemies beheld them . but soft — for j. reeve has been long dead . now reconcile all this who can ? for , . he saith that they two are the two witnesses , and yet the bodies of those two witnesses are the letter of the scripture . . if the letter of the scripture is the body of the witnesses , and that lay slain years before these two say , they receiv'd their commission ; then the bodies of them were slain before , and years before , these two witnesses were in being . . he saith , the body of the witnesses , or letter , was slain years before ; and yet makes it slain again by the ld. mayor . and if it was slain in his time , then the three days and a half was to begin after his time , and a new years was to follow . . observe , that in the revelation , the two witnesses had their commission before the bodies were slain : but if the bodies of the witnesses is the letter of scripture , and was slain years ago ; then they were slain so long before these had their commission , which was not till . it 's plain , this shifter knows not where to fix . he would fain , like simon magus , be accounted some great one , and he and his partner would set up for broachers of new doctrines , how sordid and contradictious soever ; but he wants the skill to patch things cleverly together ; they are at the best but tatters , and can never be brought into one intire piece . and this exposition of his is so sorry and pitiful an attempt , that he might as well have undertaken to have proved himself and reeve to be the two great lights in the heavens ; and to as good purpose have in like manner wrote an exposition on the first chapter of genesis . to conclude , if confusion and self-contradiction , may pass for exposition ; if confidence and self-assuming may pass for inspiration ; if nonsence and obscurity may pass for illumination ; if cursing and damning others may pass for charity ; if blasphemy may pass for religion ; then these two may be allowed to be what they pretend . but if these things will not pass among mankind ; then they will no more be prophets and witnesses from god , than they will ascend into heaven in a cloud , in the sight of their enemies finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e see letter to ld. mayor , and the remonstr . notes for div a -e remonst . p. . transcend . spir. treat . p. , . true interpret . of revelat. ch . . n. . . look . glass . ch. . n. . ch. . n. . look . glass . p. . n. . look . glass . p. . n. . n. . n. . p. n. . joyful news , p. . see transcendent spir. treatise , §. . p. . . quakers neck . p. . look . glass . p. . n. . revelat. p. . n. . look . glass . epist . and p. . . . n. . . n. . . n. . . n . peter . , , . remonst . p. , , . transcend . p. , , , , . letter to ld. mayor , p. . look . glass . p. . n. . transcendent . p. . revelat. p. . ch . . n. . muggleton's epist . to look . glass . p. . look . glass . p. . n. . . n. , . transc . p. . revel . p. . n. , . p. . n. , , . . n. , , . look . glass . p. . n. , . . n. . transcend . p. . transcendent . p. . look . glass . p. . p. . n. . . n. . transcend . p. . remonstr . p. . look . glass . p. . n. , . look . glass . p. . n. , . look . glass . p. . n. . revelat. p. . n. . revelat. chap. . n. . . . epist . prefixed to it . see p. . n. , . p . n. . p. . n. . look . glass . p. . n. . transc . p. . p. . title page to the looking-glass . transc . p. , , , & . look . glass . p. . n. . . n. . revelat. p. . n. . joyful news . p. . transcend p. . joyful news . p. , . muggleton's epist . to look . glass . look glass . , p . n. , &c. remonstr . p. . transc . p. . look . glass . c. . n. , . look . glass . p. . n. . transcend . ibid. look . glass . p. . n. , . p. . n. , . look . glass . p. . n. . . n. . look . glass . p. . c. . rev. p. . n . look . glass . p. . n. . transcend p. . , , , , . letter to ld. mayor . p. . transc . p. . gen. epist p. . look . glass . p. . n. . a trans . p. . b p. . c p. . d revel . ch . . n. . e trans p. . f p. . . g revel . ch . n. . . h trans . p. . revel . ch . . n. . i trans . p. . k p. . l p. , &c. look . glass . p. . n. . look . glass . p. . n. . look . glass . p. . n. . p. . n. . quakers neck . n. . transc . p. . look . glass . p. n. . . n. . . n. . transc . p. . look . glass . p. . n. , , &c. p. . n. , &c. n. . trans . p. . remonstr . p. look . glass . p. . n. . n. . trans . p. . . look . glass . p. , . joyful news . p. , , . look . glass . ch . . n. p. . n. . . n. , . look . glass . p. , , , . john . , . john . . . . john . . john . . john . . cor. . . john . . look . glass p. n. ● . look . glass . p. . n. . transcendent . spir. treat . remonstr . p. . remonstr . p. . transcend . p. . look . plass . p. . . ibid. p. . n. . revelat. c. . revelat. ch . . n. . revel . ch . . . see pag. . revelat. ch . . n. . look . glass . p. . n. . look . glass . p. . n. , . ibid. p. . n. . ibid. p. . n. , . ibid. p. , , . interpret . of the revelat. c. . n. . c. . n. . the history of the gunpowder-treason collected from approved authors, as well popish as protestant. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the history of the gunpowder-treason collected from approved authors, as well popish as protestant. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for richard chiswel ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gunpowder plot, . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ben griffin sampled and proofread - ben griffin text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , guil. jane . nov. . . the history of the gunpowder-treason , collected from approved authors , as well popish as protestant . saepè divinitatis opera haec sunt , & furias in ipso jam successu securas subita ultio excipiat : nè vel unquam improbis timor , vel spes absit calamitosae virtuti . jo. barclaii conspiratio anglicana . london , printed for richard chiswel at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , . the history of the gunpowder treason . there are no conspiracies and insurrections more dangerous to states and governments , than those that the name of religion is made to patronize ; for when that doth head and manage the party , as it makes it look somewhat considerable in it self , so it doth inspire those that are concerned with a certain furious and intemper ate zeal , and an ungovernable violence ; they then rebel with authority , and kill with a safe conscience , and think they cannot do amis as long as it is to do god service . the brother will then deliver up the brother to death , and the father the child : and the children will rise up against their parents , and cause them to be put to death ; and the laws of nature , which are of themselves sacred and inviolable , shall in such a case be despised and lose their authority . this , this is it which in these latter ages more especially hath disturbed governments , disposed of the crowns of princes , and troubled the peace of the world : from hence spring all those mischiefs that threatned and perpetually allarm'd this nation during the long and fortunate reign of queen elizabeth : from hence proceeded that barbarous and bloody design of the gunpowder treason in the year . such a design a the world before never heard of , and which posterity will hardly believe for the horror of it , say the soberer of their own * authors : such a design as even some of the jesuits , after it miscarried , and they saw how ill it was resented by the rest of mankind , professed their detestation of * ; but how little to their own vindication , and the satisfaction of the world will easily appear to any one that doth impartially inquire into the history and the process of it . for this design was not taken up of a sudden , and what a small company of rash and hot-headed persons did without consideration attempt , but what proceeded from the same original , and was carried on by the same counsels and endeavours that were in being in the time of queen elizabeth ; the principals in which for their time were garnet the provincial of the jesuits in england , baldwin in flanders , and creswel in spain ; these were the great projectors and encouragers of that which was called the spanish treason in the last year of queen elizabeth ; and which when defeated in by her death , and the peace that issued upon it betwixt the crowns of england and spain , they were put upon new counsels , and forced to take other measures for the prosecution of it . it was in decemb. in the year , that tho. winter was sent into spain by the ioynt advice of henry garnet and oswald tesmond jesuits , and of robert catesby and francis tresham , gentlemen of good quality and reputation , to try what could be done for their assistance that were ready to sacrifice their lives and fortunes for the catholick cause ; and to assure the king of spain that could they but prevail with him to send over an army , they would have in readiness or horses for the service . with winter was sent over oswald tesmond , and by them a letter to creswel the jesuit then residing there , by whose mediation the motion was readily hearkned to , and don pedro francesa , second secretary of state , and the duke of lerma did assure them of the kings furtherance and help ; and in the conclusion the count of miranda particularly told them that his master had resolved to bestow two hundred thousand crowns to that use , half to be paid that year , and the rest the next following , and that at spring he would without fail set footing in england . about the latter end of the year thomas winter returns with this joyful news , and they were now busie in preparing for it , and almost every day expecting the arrival of these forces , when of a sudden all was dashed by the death of queen elizabeth , which was march . . upon this one of the wrights is immediately despatched into spain , to give the king notice of it ; and about the same time was guy fawks sent with letters and commission from sir william stanly , hugh owen , and baldwin the jesuit ( who were then in flanders , and ready to attend and to prosecute the same design ) but that king told them that he was now otherwise resolved and it became him not to hearken to such proposals , after he had sent embassadors to the new king of england to treat of a peace . it was now therefore fit either to let their design fall , or to betake themselves to some other course to effect it ; but the former their temper and their principles would not permit ; and therefore since they could not promise themselves success therein by force , they did contrive how without any noise or visible and open preparations it might be obtained . that a king or queen who is an heretick may be deposed or killed was current doctrine amongst them , in the time of queen elizabeth , and what they had been taught from father creswel , or whoever was the author of the book called philopater , and by tresham in his book de officio hominis christiani , found with them about this time . and though the king was not formally declared and proceeded against as such , yet it was thought sufficient by them that the pope on maunday-thursday did censure and condemn all hereticks in the general , as guy fawkes and others of them did confess . and therefore the question was not so much about the lawfulness of it , as about the order that was to be observed , and the way that was fit to be taken in it . catesby who was no novice in these affairs , and that from his acquaintance with parsons when in england and garnet and the other jesuits ( to whose order he and his family , from campian down to this time , were particularly devoted ) had learned great skill and subtilty , quickly contrived this for them ; and when percy who was of the house of northumberland , and at that time one of the kings pensioners , according to the bluntness of his temper , did offer himself for the service , and that he would without any more adoe undertake to assassinate the king ; this wary gentleman replyed that would be too dear a purchase , when his own life would be hazarded in it ; and it was unnecessary , when it might as well be accomplished without it ; and so acquaints him in part with what was intended . before this was fit to be fully communicated , he thought it necessary that there should be some care taken to obliege all to secrecy ; for which purpose an oath was devised that every one should take , and which was accordingly administred to them by gerard the jesuit . the oath was , you shall swear by the blessed trinity , and by the sacrament you now purpose to receive , never to disclose directly nor indirectly , by word or circumstance , the matter that shall be proposed to you to keep secret nor desist from the execution thereof , until the rest shall give you leave . this was taken and the sacrament upon it received by catesby , percy , christopher wright , thomas winter , and faukes in may . upon which catesby communicated the whole , and told them that at the meeting of the parliament which now drew on , they would have a fair opportunity to consummate all their wishes , & without being observed or discovered by one fatal blow to destroy the king , the prince , the duke , and the parliament at once ; for as long as there were those breaches of the royal family remaining , to what purpose would it be to make away the king , and as long as there was a parliament in being , what should they get if they could not as well destroy the branches as the root . therefore his design was to extirpate at once all the seeds of heresie , and by a train of powder conveniently laid under the house in which at that time they should all be assembled to blow them up , and their cause together . this was what the confederates very well approved of , and now the united counsels and endeavours to carry it on . the first thing to be considered was the hiring of the house , and this percy undertook , and having not without some difficulty perswaded the present tenant ferris to quit it , he became immediate tenant to whinyard , keeper of the wardrope , at whose disposal it was in the intervals of parliament . the house was committed to the care of faukes , as being least known , who , the better to conceal himself , changed his name to johnson , and gave himself out to be perey's servant . whilst they were thus busie in contriving and carrying on their plot , the parliament was prorogued till february the th , upon which they dispersed themselves into several countreys ; but to lose no time , did think of taking in some other persons whom they might confide in , and expect some help from . catesby was sensible that he had given thomas bates , a servant of his that attended him , too great cause of suspicion , and upon examination found him to have observed somewhat from his proceedings , and therefore invited him into the undertaking , but he somewhat surprized at the horror of it , began to decline it , till his master referd him for advice to tesmond , unto whom imparting it in confession , the subtile priest both invited him to it as a work of great merit , and obliged him to secrecy and fidelity therein . then were robert keyes and the other wright gentlemen , and ambrose rockwood , and john grant , and robert winter , esquires admitted into the number . in michaelmas term they met again , and then they thought fit to provide a storehouse for the timber which they should use in the mine that they intended to make , and for the powder and other materials , from whence they might fetch it as occasion served . and such a place they found and took at lambeth . december th , they began to work , but what from the difficulty of the work ( the wall that they were to make their way through being ells thick ) what from their want of skill in it , and of being used to such kind of labour , they found that their time would be too short for their enterprize , and they began to despair of success in it . but when under this irresolution and discouragement , their hopes were revived by two unexpected accidents . for first the parliament was adjourned to the th of october following , by which means they should have time before them . and then they had an opportunity of hiring a vault , much more for their turn than the mine which they had so long employed themselves in . this they came to knowledge of upon this occasion ; as they were one day busie at their work , they were not a little frighted by an unusual noise on the other side of the wall , which made them think that they were betrayed , and to betake themselves to their weapons with a resolution of dying upon the place . but fauks who was sent out to make discovery returns with joy to tell them that it was only the removing of coals that were laid in the adjoyning vault or cellar , which was now to be let . this they presently hire , thither they brought their stores . by this means they quined a double advantage , first that their business was brought into a less room , which was more for their ease and safety , and then that they were rid of their hard , and but upon such a cause , to them intolerable labour ; for this was a mine as it were , already and what was so well scituated by its being almost under the royal throne , that they could not have chose any thing more commodious . and now they are at leisure not so much to think of this design ( for that was brought to its head , and what they reckoned themselves sure of ) as how to carry on the other part of it . the king and prince henry they did not doubt would fall in this common calamity ; but the duke , being but four years old , they thought would be absent ; of him therefore percy took the charge , and said , he would attend about the chamber till the blow was given , and then in a trice conveigh him away , with the help of two or three that should be ready on horse-back ; which they might the more easily do , as many of the court would be that day upon attendance and perish with the rest , and the others would by it be put into confusion , and unprovided to make any opposition . as for the lady elizabeth , she might be reserved , and her name made use of by them in stilling and composing the minds of the people , and for making good whatever they thought fit to use her authority in ; and her they might the more easily gain into their hands , as she was now at the lord harringtons at comb-abby in warwickshire , whereabouts they might securely be under the pretence of an hunting-match , and with the first news there surprize her . in the mean time , was care taken to give notice to those abroad whom they might trust ; and in march . is fawks sent over to sr. william stanly , and hugh owen ; and with letters from garnet to baldwin the legier jesuit in flanders . sr. william was absent , but having first administred the oath of secrecy , to owen , he acquaints him with the plot , who promised to give his utmost assistance ; and to dispose sir william to it ( whom he thought it not fit for the present to cummunicate it to , for fear he might be discovered and fail in a design , that he was then about in the court of england . ) to the barrels of powder laid in at first ; they added in july , more with barrs of iron , and massie stones , and at the last made up the number thirty six ; over which they laid a thousand billets , and five-hundred faggots . and at a meeting at the bath , of percy and catesby , it was agreed that catesby should take in whom he thought fit , who thereupon engaged sir everard digby , that promised to advance l. towards it ; and mr. francis tresham , that gave him assurance of l. all things thus being in a readiness , the parliament was again prorogued till the fift of november ; upon which they retired , with a promise of meeting about ten daies before . at which time catesby , being informed by winter at a house by enfield chase , that the prince was not likely to be present with the king , there was another plot laid to surprize him , if it should so happen . the time drew very near , and they that had past so long without discovery , seem'd now to be above the the fear of it . all things had so happily concurred to further their design , and they had all approved themselves to be so trusty in it , that they were more concerned how to manage the success than to fear it . but god that had a reserve of favour for us , and that doth delight in catching the wise in their own craftiness , suffered them to proceed thus far in it , that the detection and overthrow of it might appear to be more from his than man's providence . when catesby first thought of this , the great difficulty with him was about the lawfulness of destroying the innocent with the guilty . for the blow would know no difference betwixt a catholick and a heretick , betwixt a friend or f. o. when the nobles and the commons , those that were a part of that assembly , and those that came to be auditors and spectators only ; those that were within , and those that were without the house ; when no less than thirty thousand must perish at once by it ( as barclay saith it was computed ) it must needs be that many whom they wished well to ; and that also ( if they knew it ) would wish well to their cause must be part of the sacrifice . what an havock would thirty-six barrels , or nine or ten-thousand pound of powder make , loaded thus with bars of iron , massie stones , and great pieces of timber , how would it tear the foundations of the strongest buildings , throw down all the tops of the neighbouring houses , and bury all within the ruins of both ? what would become of their friends and allies , those that they had received much kindness from , and others who neither did nor knew how to do them an injury ? how many families must they undo , by the loss of relations , estates , and records which were there deposited ? this and much more was what they well foresaw , and what they could not foresee without some kind of horror , if they had but one spark of humanity left untouched by their unnatural religion . what must therefore be done ; to whom should he resort for counsel , but to his fast friend father garnet , to him he opens the case ( as far as it was fit and as far as the other was willing to know of it ) after this manner . whether for the good and promotion of the catholick cause ( the necessity of time and occasion so requiring ) it be lawfull or not amongst many nocents to destroy and take away some innocents also ? to which the jesuit replies , that if the advantage was greater on the side of the catholicks by the destruction of the innocent with the nocent , than by the preservation of both , it was doubtless lawful ; further explaining himself by this comparison . that , if at the taking of a town possessed by the enemy , there happen to be seen friends , they must undergo the fortune of war , and the general and common destruction of the enemy . with this answer catesby was satisfied , and with this he satisfied others , telling them that it was the resolution of the case given by the provincial . but , yet though this did thus compose their minds , and what they were generally satisfied with , there wanted not one that having a kindness for the lord monteagle , eldest son to the lord morley , sent this note to him , by the hands of one of his foot-boyes that was abroad in the evening of the saturday was sennight before the appointed time for the meeting of the parliament . my lord , out of the love i hear to some of your friends , i have a care of your preservation . therefore i would advise you , as you tender your life ▪ to devise some excuse to shift off your attendance at this parliament . for god and man have concurred to punish the wickedness of this time . and think not slightly of this advertisment , but retire your self into your contrey , where you may expect the event in safety : for though there be no appearance of any stir ; yet i say , they shall receive a terrible blow this parliament , and yet they shall not see who hurt them . this counsel is not to be contemned , because it may do you good , and can do you no harm : for the danger is past as soon as you shall have burned this letter . and i hope god will give you the grace to make good use of it . to whose holy protection i commend you . the letter was without date or subscription , and the hand in which it was write was hardly legible , and the contents of it so perplexed , that the lord knew as little what to make of it , as whence it came . but yet however since it respected more than himself he thought not fit to conceal it , and presently repaired to white-hall , and put it into the hands of the earl of salisbury principal secretary of state. the earl commended the lord for his care and fidelity ; and told him that though there seemed to be little in it , yet because of the reports that he had received from abroad , that the papists this session of parliament would be very busie and insolent in their demands for toleration upon some prospect they had of being in a condition to command it ; and also that because nothing that concerned the safety of his majesty and peace of his government ought to be slighted , he would advise with others of his majesties council about it . accordingly he shewed it to the lord chamberlain , ( to whom it particularly belonged to visit all places where his majesty either lived or to which he did resort ) to the lord high-admiral , the earls of worcester and northampton ; who all were of the same mind with the secretary , and concluded it fit to deliver it to the king at his return from royston , when he came from hunting , and from whence he was expected the thursday following . on the next day after his return , the earl presented him with it , and told him how it came to his hands . after the reading of it , the king made a pause , and then reading it again , said , that there seemed somewhat in it extraordinary , and what was by no means to be neglected . the earl replied , that it seemed to him to be written by a fool , or a mad-man ; for who else could be guilty of saying , the danger is past as soon as you have burn'd the letter ? for what danger could there be in that , which the burning of the letter would put an end to ? but the king considering the smartness of the stile , and withal what was said before , that they should receive a terrible blow , and yet should not see who hurt them , did conclude , as he was walking and musing in the gallery , that the danger must be sudden , and like the blowing up by gunpowder ; for what else could the parliament be in danger of ? or what rebellion and insurrection could there be , and yet there be no appearance of stir therein ? or how could they be otherwise hurt , and not see who hurt them ? and as for the phrase which the secretary particularly offered at , he said , to him it seemed to be of a quite different signification , and that thereby was to be understood the suddenness and quickness of it , which should as soon or as quickly be done , as that paper might be burnt . doubtless this was the sence of it , and what he that wrote it did intend , who was no fool , as appears by the other parts of the letter ; and yet the discovery of it was extraordinary , being against the common construction , far from what any other did apprehend by it ; and therefore it is what even some of the adverse party have looked upon as god's inspiration . so john barclay entitles his little book that he wrote about it , series patefacti divinitus parricidii , &c. and spondanus , ann. . § . . saith of the king , that divinitus evasit . the secretary admired the king's great sagacity ; and tho he seemed to differ from him whilst in his presence , yet presently conferred with the lords about it , and on saturday it was resolved , that the houses and rooms thereabouts should be searched . the care of this was committed to the lord chamberlain , who was appointed on munday to make the search ; which he accordingly did that evening , being accompanied with the lord monteagle , that was very desirous of seeing the event . having view'd this house , they found in a vault under ground great store of billets , faggots , and coal , brought thither ( as mr. whinyard told them ) for the use of mr. percy , and spied faux standing in a corner of the cellar , who said that he was mr. percy 's servant , and left there by him for the keeping of his house . upon the naming of percy , the lord monteagle told the chamberlain , that he now vehemently suspected mr. percy to be the author of that letter , both from his inclination to the romish religion , and the intimacy that had been betwixt them . how true that lord's conjecture was , i i know not , ( for bishop goodman in his answer to sir anth. weldon's court of k. james , saith , that tresham sent it ) . but that circumstance , with what they had discovered , so much encreased the suspicion , that when all was reported by the lord chamberlain to the king , in the presence of the lord admiral , lord treasurer , the earls of worcester , northampton , and salisbury , it was resolved , that further search should be made , what was under that great pile of fewel , in such a house where percy had so little occasion to reside . but what for avoiding the report of too much credulity , and easiness to receive informations of that kind ; what from the care of doing any thing that might redound to the blemish of the earl of northumberland , whose near relation , and great confident this thomas percy was ; it was resolved to do it under the pretence of making inquisition for some of the kings hangings , that were stollen out of whinyard's custody . sir thomas knevet , one of the king's privy-chamber , was employed in it , being a person in publick office , as a justice of peace , and of great prudence . at midnight he repaired thither , and found faux standing at the door , booted and spurr'd , whom he presently apprehended . then proceeding , he first lighted upon one of the smaller , and after discovered the rest of the barrels . upon which causing faux to be searched , he found about him three matches , a tinderbox , and a dark lanthorn . being thus taken in the fact , he both confessed and defended it , adding , that if he had happened to be within the house , as he was without , he would by putting fire to the train , have put an end to their enquiry . sir thomas having had such happy success , immediatly returns with joy to the palace , and acquaints the lord chamberlain , and earl of salisbury with it , who went to the king's bedchamber , and with as much hast as joy the chamberlain told the king , that all was discovered , and the traitor in safe custody . this was about four of the clock in the morning . as soon as the council met , ( who were immediatly sent for ) the prisoner was taken into examination , and to the amazement of all appeared no more dash'd by their presence , or the questions put to him , or the condition that he was in , than if he had been altogether innocent , declaring , that he was not at all sorry for what he had design'd , but only that he fail'd in the execution of it ; and that the devil , and not god , was the discoverer . so pertinacious and resolute was he , that he would not own any accomplices , but that he alone was the contriver , and should have been the sole executer of it , and that he was induced to this for conscience sake , as the king ( being an heretick ) was not his lawful sovereign , but an usurper . thus stout and resolute did he continue , till he was brought to the tower , and shewed the rack , upon the sight of which he began to relent , and after some days examination disclosed the whole . the news of this discovery flew like lightning , it was what rejoiced the heart of every good subject , and daunted that of the rebels , and therefore those of them that were in town no sooner heard of it , but they betook themselves to flight . catesby was gone the night before towards the place appointed for their rendezvous ; and percy set forward at of the clock in the morning , much about the time that the discovery was made : but one of the winters , and the two wrights that staid behind , staid to hear of their defeat and disappointment , and so made all the haste they could to overtake and meet their confederates ; that they might consult what was to be done in so great an exigence . in the mean time , there was nothing wanting on their part , who were to contribute their endeavours in the country . sir everard digby came to dunchurch according to appointment , and so confident were they of success above , that one grant a gentleman in those parts , on monday night , much about the time that faux was apprehended with other of his associates , broke open the stables of one benock , a rider of great horses , and took away all that he found , for their own service , and with them they repaired to the rest . but all their hopes were soon blasted , by the sad news which they quickly received from those that had made their escape . desperation begets resolution ; and now they are lost as well as their cause , if they do not speedily find out a remedy ; and therefore with all the haste they can , they dispatched some to call in others to their assistance , and to represent to them the greatness of the danger that they , and their religion is in , unless they appear in its defence . this tesmond ( aliàs greenwel ) the jesuit , did particularly concern himself in , exhorting all to take up arms , and to unite their forces , and for this purpose rode as far as lancashire . this riding to an fro made a noise in the countrey and awakened the people ; the loss of benock's horses came quickly to the ears of some of those gentlemen that had put them into his hands to manage and fit them for their service . and for one reason or another the countrey was presently up in arms , and upon pursuit of them . some of them were taken prisoners , and others of them pursued by sir richard verney , sheriff of warwick-shire , to the borders of that county . but they kept on their course , till they came to holbeach in staffordshire , the house of stephen littleton ; thither sir richard walsh , sheriff of worcester-shire followed them ; and by his trumpeters commanded them in the king's name to surrender , assuring them that upon their so doing he would intercede with the king for them , and doubted not to obtain their pardon . but they that were conscious to themselves of more than he understood ( for the news had not yet spread so far , nor the king's proclamations , though sent after them , had not yet overtaken them ) bid him defiance , and sent him word that he must have a greater force , than what he had then the command of , to reduce them . but whilst the one was preparing for the assault , and the other for their defence , god himself seemed to decide the quarrel : for by the same means which they contrived to destroy others , they themselves came to suffer ; for having laid some powder to dry before the fire , a coal upon the mending of it flew into the pan and set fire to the rest , thereby not only blowing up part of the roof , and a bag of powder of or pound , that they underset the pan with , which was carried unfired into the court , but so wounding catesby , percy , rockwood , and several of the conspirators , that they were unable to make any further defence . by this time also fire was set to the house , and their case grew so desperate , that they opened the doors , and exposed themselves to the weapons and fury of the people . the three principal of them , viz. catesby , percy , and winter , joined back to back , and the two former of them were mortally wounded with one shot , catesby dying upon the spot , and percy not out-living him above two or three days . the two wrights were slain at the same time , digby , rock-wood , thomas winter , grant and bates were taken prisoners , and sent up to london , robert winter and littleton endeavoured to conceal themselves in the woods , but were afterward taken and committed to the tower ; tresham continued in london , and seemed ready to find out the traitors , and by that means thought at first to remain undiscovered , but being suspected , he was afterwards searched for , and apprehended and sent to the same place . thus suddenly was that design discovered which had been so long concealed ; thus suddenly was it broken , which they had been some years in contriving , therein verifying that of the psalmist , the ungodly are sink down into the pit that they made : in the net which they hid , is their own foot taken . the lord is known by the judgment which he executetb , the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands . these persons thus apprehended were carefully examined , ( in the doing of which were spent days ) and from their several confessions was drawn sufficient matter not only for their own condemnation , but also for detection of others . the most considerable of which was garnet the provincial of the jesuits , hall , greenwel , gerard and hammond , priest of the same order . the respect that garnet had to the reputation of their society , and his own safety , had made him to act with so great caution , that he would willingly converse with none about this matter , but those that were of his own order ; or catesby his trusty friend . and therefore much of the evidence against him fell with that conspirator . but yet there appeared such presumptions by the acknowledgment of the rest that were taken , and letters that were found , that there was a proclamation issued out for the apprehension of him and his brethren , declaring it treason for any to harbour and conceal them . garnet when the time drew near , and all things were ripe for their design , took a journey to coulton in warwick-shire , not far from the place of the general rendezvous , where he preached a sermon , and 〈◊〉 which he exhorted his auditors to pray for the success of a great action , to be undertaken in the behalf of the catholicks , at the beginning of the parliament , as is acknowledged by his apologist , and was confessed by hall , aliàs oldcorn . whilst at that place he received a letter november , from catesby , to let him know that their design had miscarried , and to desire him that he would use his interest in stirring up the catholicks in wales to arm and defend themselves . but the wary jesuit provided for his own safety , and sending greenwel to them for their assistance and direction , he himself with hall fled to mr. abington's house , at henlip in worcester-shire , where hall had found a safe retreat for sixteen years together , as an author of theirs informs us . there they lay concealed for some time , but at the last were discovered to be in that place by littleton , one of the conspirators , as the same author relates , pag. . who further saith , that though the help of carpenters and bricklayers were used , yet they were many days before they could find them out being in a vault , the way to which was in an upper-room through the half-pace before the hearth , whose wooden border was made like a trap-door to pluck up and down , and then the bricks were laid in their courses and order again , as we are told by an author of our own . hence they were brought to london , and committed to the tower. on january the other prisoners were brought to their tryal at guild-hall . the persons arraigned were robert winter esq thomas winter , gentleman , guy faux gentleman , john grant , esq ambrose rockwood , esq robert keyes , gentleman , and thomas bates , servant 〈◊〉 catesby . by another indictment was arraigned sir everard digby . they generally acknowledged the fact , and spake little in their own vindication . rookwood pleaded , that it was the entire affection he had for mr. catesby which drew him in ; and he hoped , as it was his first fact , some mercy would be shewed him . sir everard said the same with respect to catesby , and added , that he had undertaken it for the zeal which he had to the catholick religion , which he was ready to sacrifice all for ; and to prevent those calamities which he understood that the parliament was prepared to bring upon them of his perswasion . keys said , that his fortunes were sunk , and as good now as at another time , and for this cause rather than another . they seem'd resolved to vindicate the jesuits , or at least to say nothing against them ; whether it were that they were not allowed to discourse of the plot with any but such and such particular persons , or whether it were that they thought it to be highly meritorious , and this last seems to be not unlikely . when tresham not above three hours before his death , in the tower , did declare upon his salvation , that he had not seen garnet in sixteen years before ; whereas it appeared , both by the confession of garnet , and mrs. anne vaux , garnet's bosom-friend , that they had been frequently together the two last years past . on the thursday following , sir everard digby , robert winter , john grant , and bates , were according to judgment , drawn , hanged , and quartered , at the west end of st. paul's church . and on the friday , the other four , viz. thomas winter , keyes , rockwood , and faux , were executed in the palace-yard at westminster . now were garnet and hall had in examination , and that several times from the first of february , to march the th . in all which garnet shewed by the wiliness of his answers , and the confidence he maintained them with , that he deserved the place of provincial of the jesuits , being so well versed in all the practices of his society , that few could exceed him . the king from the first was resolved to forbear the severity of the rack , much practised in other countries , in the examination of notorious and perverse criminals . we indeed are told by a late confident author of their own , that garnet was kept waking six days and nights together to bring him by that new kind of torment ( as he calls it ) to a confession of his crime ; and that hall was put to extreme torture for fifteen hours space together in the tower , for the same reason . but a greater than he , one of their own perswasion , doth assure us , that the king to avoid calumny , did purposely forbear any thing of that kind of rigour , and garnet himself did publickly own at his trial , that he had been used whilst in prison with great lenity . we know not what effect the rack might have had upon him , for that was a way of trial he had not been exercised in ; but that course which they took , by frequent and cross examinations , by expostulations and arguments , he was so much a master of , that in all the twenty three days spent in it , they would have gained but little information , had they not had some greater advantage . had he been alone , and could not have been confronted by others , he had been much more secure , and they more at a loss . and therefore to prevent any mis-understanding betwixt him and others in custody ; that their answers might not be inconsistent or repugnant , he writes both to hall and mrs. vaux , to let them know after what manner he thought to excuse or defend himself , and what replies to make to some particular enquiries ; as if he should be charged with his prayer for the good success of a great action , &c. he would say , it was for the prevention of those severe laws , which those of their church expected would be made against them by that parliament . but it happened , that these letters that were writ by him , came into other hands than those he intended them for , and did him a worse injury than any account that his sworn friends could have likely given of the same actions , though disagreeing with his . and indeed herein his adversaries did outwit him , and worsted him at his own weapons . for when they perceived that he obstinately persisted in the defence of his innocency , they took another course to find him out ; first , a person was employed as a keeper , that should profess himself to be a roman catholick , and that should take a great liberty to complain of the kings severity , and of the sufferings their party were made to undergo . by these and the like crafty insinuations he grew to be a familiar of garnet's , and at last was entrusted by him with a letter to one , and to another . which yet he did not so much venture upon , but that he wrote sparingly to one , and to the other nothing in appearance but what any one may see , filling up the void places with other more secret matters , written indeed , but written with the juice of a lemmon . by this means they found out , that it was not so much his innocency , as the want of proof , that made him so confident . by this they came to understand , that greenwel and he had conferred together about the plot. there was also another calamity that befell him by the same contrivance ; for now thinking himself sure of his keeper , he let him know what a great desire he had of conferring with hall. the decoy told him , that he would endeavour to find out a way for it . this was done , and they had that freedom ; but at the same time there were placed within hearing two persons of such known credit that garnet at his trial had nothing to object against them , who took notice of what was said , and made it known to the council . the next day commissioners came to examine them , and in discourse charged them severally with those things that passed betwixt them the day before . this hall did acknowledg , being convinced by the particulars that they produced , but garnet did deny it upon the word of a priest , and with reiterated protestations . and when they told him that hall had confessed , he said , let him accuse himself falsly if he will , i will not be guilty of that folly . but at the last , when he perceived that the evidence was not to be gainsaid , begg'd their pardon with no little confusion , and owned the particulars they charged him with : and a little to save his reputation , told them , that as he denied all , because he knew none but greenwel could accuse him ; so he did deny what he knew to be true , by the help of equivocation . now they had gained good evidence against him , his letters first , then his discourse with hall ; and lastly , his own confession , were a sufficient ground for them to proceed and try him upon . and that they began to do two days after , viz. march . the great thing charged upon him was , that he was privy to this conspiracy , that he held a correspondence with catesby , and by him and greenwel with the rest . and the chief part of his defence was , that what he did know of it was in confession , and what was told him in that way he was bound to conceal , notwithstanding any mischief that might follow it ; he might disswade persons from it , but whether they would be perswaded by him or not , he was obliged not to divulge it . after a long time spent in his trial , there was but little taken by the jury to give in their verdict , which was , that he was guilty of the treason ; and accordingly he received sentence , and was executed the third of may following , at the west end of st. paul's church-yard . this is the man whom the jesuits extoll to the clouds , and that is put into the catalogue of their martyrs , as it is to be found at the end of alegambe's bibliotheca scriptorum socieatis iesu. this person , who was a perfect master of the art of dissimulation , that could by equivocation swear to what he knew to be false , is what one of them bestows this character upon , that there was in him morum simplicitus , & candor animi minimè suspicacis . this man who had not the heart to die , and who at the time of his execution was so divided betwixt the hopes of a pardon , and the fear of death , that he could not attend to his own devotions , but one while cast his eyes this way and another that ; now at his prayers , and anon breaking off from them to answer to that discourse which he overheard . this man i say , is said by alegambe to go to his death interritus & exporectâ fronte obtestans , &c. without any fear , and protesting that he exceedingly rejoiced that he was now to suffer that death which would be an entrance to an immortal life . the conclusion of all which is , that no jesuit can be a traitor , and none suffer for treason but he must be a martyr . the case of hall was much the same with that of garnet ; he did confess , and it was also proved that they were both together at caughton , and they were both found together afterwards . it appeared that he had afterward defended the treason to humphrey littleton . the excuses , the discourse , the confessions , were much one and the same , but only that garnet was the more resolved , and the more obstinate of the two . now because as this treason was hatched , and to be executed in the main at london , so because part of it was also to be done in the countrey , and the chief of the conspirators were there taken , therefore six of them were sent to worcester , and there executed , viz. humphrey littleton , john winter , and this hall , with three others . thither , i say , he was carried with them for that reason , and not because his adversaries were ashamed to have his cause heard at london , as a bold author of theirs would have it . it is no wonder to find these men so concerned to clear themselves of it , when all the world is against them ; though this is no more to be done , than to prove that one that kills a king is a good subject , and one that stirs up his subjects in rebellion against him , is a friend to him . these were the persons that were taken and suffered for this bloody treason . others of them escaped beyond sea ; of which one , when dominicus● vicus governour of calice , assured them of the king's favour , and though they lost their own country , they might be received there , replied , the loss of their country was the least part of their grief ; but their sorrow was that they could not bring so brave a design to perfection . at which the governour could hardly forbear casting him into the sea , as thuanus relates from vicus his one mouth . others there were whom the government had a great suspicion of , as henry lord mordant , and edward lord sturton , who not appearing upon the summons to the parliament , were supposed to absent themselves from some intelligence that they received , were fined in the star-chamber , and to be imprisoned during the king's pleasure . the like sentence did henry earl of northumberland undergo , for having admitted thomas percy his kinsman to be a gentleman pensioner , without administring to him the oath of supremacy , when he knew him to be a recusant . this was the end of that plot , and of the persons chiefly concerned in it . and it would be happy if they had left none of their principles or temper behind them , a generation whom no favour will oblige , nor kindness retain : whom nothing but supremacy will content , and the most absolute authority can gratify . whom nothing can secure against , but a sufficient power , or great industry , or constant watchfulness , and scarcely all . and therefore its fit that not only as a branch of our thankfulness to god , but also as a caution to our selves , that this deliverance should be celebrated , and the memory of it perpetuated . i shall end with what is said of a great person of our own , some years since . two great deliverances in the memory of many of us hath god in his singular mercy wrought for us of this nation , such as i think , take both together , no christian age or land can parallel . one formerly from a forreign invasion ; another since that of an hellish conspiracy at home . both such as we would have all thought , when they were done , should never be forgotten . and yet , as if this land were term'd oblivious , the land where all things are forgotten , how doth the memory of them fade away , and they by little and little grow into forgetfulness . we have lived to see almost forgotten , ( god be blessed who hath graciously prevented what we feared therein ) god grant that we nor ours ever live to see november the th forgotten , or the solemnity of it silenced . finis . the authors , from whence this narrative hath been collected , are , thuanus . jo. barclaii , conspiratio anglicana . proceedings against the traitors , printed . historia messionis anglicanae , societatis iesu collectore . henrico moro , printed at st. omers , . andreae eudaemon̄-joannis apologia pro garnetto . rob. abboti antilogia adversus apologiam andreae eudaemon-joannis . bibliothica scriptorum societatis iesu. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * thuanus barclay . rog. widdrington in his apolog . pro jure principum . pag. . * mori historia missionis anglicanae praefat . the spanish treason , the rise of the gun-powder-plot . proceedings against the traitors . the oath of secrecy . the plot. the house made choice of . others taken in to be confederates . the vault hired , and stored . their intelligence abroad . the parliament prorogued . catesby's case of conscience . a letter sent to the lord monteagle . the letter presented to the king. the house ordered to be searched . fawks his behaviour upon his apprehension . the flight of the traitors . the traitors pursued and taken . the examination of the prisoners . the jesuits in the conspiracy . eudoem . joannis apologia pro garneto . pag. . hon. mori historiamissionis anglicanae . pag. . garnet taken . fowlis romish treason . 〈◊〉 . pag. . the arraignment of the traitors . their execution . garnet's examination . historia missionis anglican . pag. . pag. . thuanus , an. . garnets trial his execution . hist. mission : angl. p. . the trial and execution of hall , &c. eudoemon-joannis apologia pro garnetto . pag. . bp. sandersons sermons l. ad . poulum . serm. . pag. . the divine authority of the scriptures a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, sept. . : being the sixth of the lecture for the said year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the divine authority of the scriptures a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, sept. . : being the sixth of the lecture for the said year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . boyle, robert, - . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill, senr & junr ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. half title: dr. williams's sixth sermon at mr. boyl's lecture, . errata: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r williams's sixth sermon at mr. boyl's lecture , . the divine authority of the scriptures . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , sept. . . being the sixth of the lecture for the said year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cocke●ill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . m dc xc vi. heb. i. , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son , &c. in these words we have ( as has been observed ) . a description of revelation , 't is god's speaking , or declaring his will to mankind . . the certainty of that revelation , 't is by way of declaration , god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake , &c. . the order observed in delivering that revelation , as to time , manner , and persons ; in time past by the prophets , and in the last days by his son. . the conclusion and perfection of that revelation , 't is in the last days by his son. under the second i have shewed , . that there has been such a revelation . . that the scripture is of divine revelation , and has upon it the characters belonging to such revelation . for the better disposing of what i had to say under this head , i proposed four questions to be resolved , viz. q. . how we can prove the matter of scripture to be true ? q. . how we can prove the matter of scripture to have been of divine revelation ? q. . how we can prove the books of scripture to have been of divine inspiration ? q. . how we prove these books that are now extant , and received by the christian church as canonical , to be those very books ? i have already treated of the two former , and shall now take the two latter into consideration . where we may observe somewhat as to the writers , and then as to inspiration . . as to the writers ; of whom we may reckon three sorts . ( . ) merely human ; such as st. luke speaks of , that out of a good and pious intent , took in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which were most surely believed . and this may be done without any material error by persons duly qualified for it . ( . ) those that had what they wrote immediately dictated , or at least approved by such persons as were inspired . so eusebius saith that the gospel of st. mark was approved by st. peter , and st. luke's by st. paul. ( . ) such as were immediately inspired in the writing , as st. peter and the rest of the divine writers are supposed to have been . now though the first of these may be sufficient in ordinary cases , and of good use in the extraordinary , where there is no better ; yet where the salvation of mankind is concerned , there is somewhat farther necessary , and that is , that the persons that write should be assisted and guided by the holy spirit of god , or write by the direction and approbation of those that are inspired . . as to the inspiration , that is twofold : ( . ) either when the matter , words ▪ and order , are immediately dictated by god himself ; as the decalogue was , and all that was revealed by voice ; for then it was as discourse with us . ( . ) or , when persons selected wrote by direction or command from god , what was revealed to them , as to the matter only , whether by way of declaration , or representation . in which last case the persons inspired took their own way ; which is the reason of the difference in style and phrase between their several compositions ; that , for example , isaiah writ in a lofty courtly style ; and that amos , a herdsman , writ after a more rustical way . so erasmus saith of st. luke , that he writ in a purer and clearer style , because of his skill in the greek tongue . here the office of the divine spirit was to suggest the matter , or to represent the case , to assist and supervise , so that no error should be in the original copy ; though he left each to the liberty of their own way in expressing it . as if we were to send several messengers upon the same errand , we deliver the message to them , and tell them what they are to say ; but leave every one of them to express it as they think fit , and as they are able : each of which is a faithful and wise servant , though he keeps not exactly to the very words of his master , and all agree in the drift and substance , though they differ in the expression or circumstance . so it is in the evangelists , where they all agree in the material parts of the history , though they differ often in the words , and sometimes , perhaps , in some minute passages relating to it . in one or other of these two senses , the scripture may be said to be wrote by divine inspiration ; that is , either by immediate and verbal suggestion , or by direction : and this i shall now endeavour to prove , by answering the third question , viz. q. . how we do prove the books of scripture , which contain the matter of revelation , to have been of divine inspiration ? in proceeding upon this i shall premise : . that the proper course for proving the divine authority of the scripture , is to begin with the matter , abstracted from the books , ( as i have already done ) and then to proceed from thence to the books . and therefore they begin at the wrong end , that would disprove the truth of the revelation , or matter contained in scripture , by such objections as they make from the writing , and the books . for the matter stands upon a proof and evidence of its own ( as i have shewed ) and will stand , though the written word , or scripture , should fail of supporting its own authority . therefore those that will venture upon disproving the revelation , must in reason begin with the matter ; let them there try their skill , and call in question the proof by which that is supported . but this we have already prevented , by having proved the matter of scripture to have been of divine inspiration . . though there seems not to be so clear and full a proof for the inspiration of the books , as there is for the matter , since the matter has the utmost attestation it is capable of , viz. miracles ; but there were no miracles wrought to prove these books to have been of divine inspiration , ( as has been before observed ) : yet if we prove that the books were written by inspired persons , and that what they wrote is the same with what they taught , it is equivalent , and much of the same force and authority . for what need was there of miracles to prove the books to be written by inspiration , when the persons writing them were inspired , and that what they wrote is the same with what they taught , and when what they taught was confirmed by the miracles which they wrought ? therefore while the authors were in being , there needed no miracles to prove these writings to be theirs , when they themselves asserted them so to be : and after their decease we have as much reason to believe the scriptures which they wrote to have been of divine inspiration , as what they taught to be a revelation ; both now depending upon the like evidence , that is , testimony , as to which we have no more proof of the matter , than we have of the books . . from hence it follows , that not to believe the scripture to have been of divine inspiration , is in effect to reject and deny the revelation therein contained : the scripture being the best , and in the present circumstances of mankind , the only means left for the conveyance of it ; i say , in the present circumstances , it is the only means ; for when the circumstances were other than they are now , or have been for sixteen hundred years and upwards , there was then no such absolute need of a written word : when the instructors of mankind had their lives protracted to a vast extent , as it was with the patriarch's of old ; or when there were inspired persons alive to teach and rectify any mistakes that might arise and disturb the peace of the church ; as it was in the times of the apostles . but when things fell into an ordinary course , and that fallible persons ( as all afterwards were ) might mistake in their reports of doctrine , &c. and the weak memories of others not retain what they had been taught , and that the insincere would wrest what was taught to serve their perverse designs ; the case being thus alter'd from extraordinary to ordinary , so was the means of conveyance . and god , that committed the divine oracles to be taught by persons whom he thought fit to inspire , employed the same persons to commit that revelation to writing for the future preservation of it , and the conveying it down safe and intire to posterity . without which mankind , in these circumstances , neither could themselves have been certain of what they were to believe , nor could they have sufficiently proved to others what it was they were obliged to receive and to believe , as wanting authentick monuments and records for it . so that we have sufficient reason to believe that the same divine goodness ▪ that did make known his will to mankind , would take the best means , and did take the best means for the continuing and preserving it . and scripture being the only means of that kind , becomes a rule of faith ; and so is of authority sufficient to oblige us to receive and obey it . if the matter of scripture be true and of divine inspiration , we are obliged by it , though the writing , or book containing it , should be only of human composition ; because it is the doctrine , and not the way of delivery , that passes the immediate obligation upon us : but when the book containing that matter , as well as the matter it self , is of divine authority , and composed by divine appointment , direction , or inspiration , it obligeth us by vertue of the composition , as well as the matter ; and both are to be jointly received as proceeding from one and the same original and authority . but having asserted this , that the scripture is the only means of conveyance of the will of god to mankind , and what becomes a rule of faith to us ; it is fit to return to the question proposed , viz. how we can prove the scripture to have been of divine revelation ; or that those books , so called , were wrote by the direction and command of god , or by inspiration from him ? a. . i answer in the same way as before , that as there is no revelation , if the scriptural revelation be not that revelation ; so there is no written revelation , if the scripture be not that book , and be not inspired . and then we should want the only certain means of conveyance , which is writing , or should have been wholly left to the doubtful and uncertain hand of tradition , for the knowledge and preservation of revelation . now , i think , this to be an argument of considerable force for the divine authority of scripture ; that without this means we should after a revelation be in effect without a revelation : for so it will be if the scripture contain not that revelation , and that we have no sufficient record , if that be not the authentick record of it . but to come nearer the point . . i answer , that there is as much proof for the inspiration of the scripture , as the matter is well capable of , and as much as is sufficient ; and if that be so , then 't is unreasonable to reject it ; for they who do so , can do it upon no less pretence , than that they would have such a proof as the matter is not capable of , and more than is sufficient for the proof of it . but that there is such a proof for the divine authority of scripture as is sufficient , i think , will be evident if we shew , . that the scriptures have for proof of their inspiration , the testimony of such as were inspired . . that they were written by persons inspired , and that were inspired when they writ them . . that they are worthy of such authors , and have upon them the characters of such inspiration . . the scriptures have for proof of their inspiration , the testimony of such as were inspired . the testimony of persons inspired is as much a proof of inspiration , as if it had been a matter they themselves were inspired with ; and therefore the evidence that we have for the inspiration of such persons , is a sufficient evidence for the inspiration they give testimony to . as for instance , suppose that we have not as good evidence for the inspiration of the old testament as we have for the new ; yet if the new doth justify the inspiration of the old , quotes it as such , and bestows that character upon it ; then by vertue of such a testimony , we have as good evidence for the old as we have for the new. the meer quotation of a book by an inspired person , whether as to the author , words , or matter , doth not give the like authority to that with what he himself doth write by divine inspiration ; for then aratus and menander , epimenides and callimachus , who were heathens , and are quoted by st. paul , would become inspired writers . but the scriptures of the old testament are cited by our saviour and the apostles as the oracles of god , and as books of divine authority , and which they produce and appeal to upon all occasions in justification of the doctrine which they taught : so we are told that all scripture , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the whole scripture ( as dionysius carthus . expounds it ) is given by inspiration of god. and what is meant by the scripture , is no other than what was generally received by the jewish church as such , and which our saviour distributes after their manner into the three known parts , viz. the law of moses , the prophets , and the psalms : which division comprehended in it all the several books ; the prophets containing not only the books properly so called , but also the historical , as written by inspired persons ; and the psalms containing all the poetical . and they descend yet lower ; for of the thirty nine books of the old testament , there are very few , not above seven or eight , but what are quoted in the new testament by name , or for some remarkable passage , and as books of the same character . so that if we can prove our saviour to be infallible , and the evangelists and apostles inspired ( as we have done before , when we proved the matter revealed by them to have been of divine authority ) , at the same time we prove the scriptures of the old testament to be of divine inspiration ; because they had this testimony and credit given to them by those that were themselves infallible and inspired . the like testimony have we for the divine authority of st. paul 's epistles , by st. peter , who gives them the same title of scripture with the books that were of the jewish canon ; our beloved brother paul , according to the wisdom given unto him , hath written unto you , as also in all his epistles : — which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest , as also the other scriptures . but though this be a good and sufficient proof , where it may be had , yet it is not applicable to all ; since the last of the inspired writers could have no such evidence ; as malachi among the jews ; and st. john in the primitive church , who survived all the rest of the divine penmen . and therefore where this proof of the attestation given to some is wanting as to others , we must have recourse to other arguments that will supply what is deficient . the old testament has the testimony of the new to vouch for its divine authority ; but what can thus testify to the new , when there is no other revelation , and no inspired persons to come after ? but this will be help'd by the next evidence , which is , that . the scriptures were written by persons inspired , and that were inspired in the writing of them . ( . ) they were written by persons inspired : thereby is meant , that whoever were the authors , known or unknown , we have yet good and sufficient evidence that the penmen were inspired both as to the matter and manner or way of writing . ( but this belongs to another place . ) or that the authors of those books were the same that before taught by inspiration . that the writers of the old testament were of this kind , we have already proved from the testimony of the new , as far as that is of authority to verify it . and that the evangelists and apostles , whom we have before proved to be inspired , were the authors of the books of the new testament , we have as good assurance as the jews had that the pentateuch was written by moses , or the psalms by david ; or that ever there were such philosophers as plato and aristotle , or such physicians as hippocrates and galen , or any books writ by them . nay , so much the stronger evidence have we , as it has been the duty ( as they thought ) and the interest of so considerable a part of mankind as the christians are , to preserve these records safe and entire , and to take care that they be such in all points as they received them ; and consequently according to their sense of them they are of divine inspiration , and wrote by those inspired persons . and for which there can be no greater evidence than this sort of tradition ; unless we would have god reveal to every particular person , that the authors of those books were inspired ; or point it out by some special miracles , which shall serve as the star to the wise men , to direct us to it . but since this is wanting , and cannot reasonably be expected , we must rest satisfied with that which is the only possible evidence , and which not only the primitive christians did admit as sufficient , but was not contested by the most violent adversaries of their religion : among whom the question was not , whether the persons reputed to be inspired , were the authors of those books ? or , whether those whose authors are not known , were of the same condition with those that were known ? but , whether the matters of that supposed revelation , and contained in those books , were true , and that those authors were sincere relaters of it ? and whereas there were some books of scripture that were not so early and universally embraced as others , yet they were not so much doubted of as to their authority , as the authors , ( such as the epistle to the hebrews , the second and third of st. john , and the revelation ) ; unless it were by the alogi that epiphanius writes of , who rejected the works of st. john as not agreeable to their opinion , that christ was a mere man. ( . ) the sacred penmen were inspired in their writing , in the sense before spoken of , p. . for , . there was as much need to write , as to teach ; to write with respect to the absent , and to posterity ; as to teach and preach to the present ; for there is no other way to teach in those cases , than by tradition or writing . but the defect which those holy men found all their discourses labour'd under as to their conveyance by tradition , through the infirmity of human nature , and an incapacity of transmitting the matters now contained in the scriptures , to future ages in that way , without prejudice , corruption , and abuse , disposed them , under the direction of the holy spirit , to commit them to writing . so st. john . . these things are written , that ye might believe . so st. peter , pet. . . i will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance . . there was as much need to write by inspiration , as to teach by inspiration , for writing is but another way of teaching . and if the apostles had the assistance of the holy ghost in all matters of moment when they taught , it is reasonable to suppose ( had we no other evidence for it ) that in the same circumstances they had the same assistance in what they writ . nay , so much the more might it reasonably be expected , that they should have the assistance of that divine power operating upon their minds , and guiding , as it were , their pen in what they writ ; as what they writ was to continue in the church , and to be a standard of faith , and rule of life to all ages : whereas what they taught could continue no longer than the memories of fallible men could retain it . so that we may conclude , that if they taught and preach'd by the special assistance of the holy spirit , they were also under the conduct of it when they writ . . those divine penmen conceived themselves to be alike inspired in what they writ , as in what they taught . therefore we generally find the apostles , and st. paul always , unless when he writes in conjunction with others , to begin their epistles with a declaration of their commission and authority by virtue of their office , paul an apostle , &c. requiring the same regard and the like submission to what they writ , as to what they spoke when present . and as they thus magnified their office , so they writ as from christ himself , after this and the like form , grace be to you , and peace from god our father , and the lord jesus christ , rom. . , &c. nay , they insist upon their inspiration , which they received when they writ , to gain it authority with those they wrote to . so st. paul , gal. . . paul an apostle , not of men , neither by man , but by jesus christ , &c. ver. , . i certify you , brethren , that the gospel which was preached of me , is not after man ; for i neither received it of man , nor was i taught it but by the revelation of jesus christ . and that apostle expresly saith , the things that i write unto you are the commandments of the lord , cor. . . cor. . . so st. peter , epist . . . i have written briefly , exhorting and testifying , that this is the true grace of god , wherein ye stand . now if they conceived themselves to be inspired in writing , who themselves were inspired ( as has been before proved ) and did write with the same apostolical authority as they taught , it is certain that they were inspir'd in writing ; for they were the best judges of their own inspiration , and could best know when they were inspired . and therefore if any would undertake to disprove the divine authority or inspiration of the holy scriptures , they must first of all prove that those writers were not inspired , nor did ever give sufficient evidence that they were inspired . but if they were inspired , and do withal declare that they wrote those books by inspiration , we have as much reason to receive those books as such upon their affirmation , as we have no believe that they themselves were inspired , or did ever teach by inspiration . . there is the same proof for the inspiration of the apostolical writers , in their writing , as their teaching , as what they write is the same with what they taught ; and therefore what they taught being confirmed by sufficient evidence to be from god , so must what they writ ; the same proofs that belong to the one , belonging to the other . and accordingly they in their writings often appeal to what they taught , as concordant with what they writ , and to the testimony given to the one for the confirmation of the other . they appeal to what they taught : so st. paul , cor. . . i write none other things to you , than what you read , or know and acknowledge . so gal. . , . though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed . so they appeal to the evidences of their inspiration in teaching , for a confirmation of what they writ : so cor. . . truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience , and signs and wonders , and mighty deeds . gal. . . he that ministreth to you the spirit , and worketh miracles among you , doth he it by the works of the law , or the hearing of faith ? from whence it is that the apostles challenge the same regard to be paid to their writings , as their teaching ; which they could not have done , were not their writings of as good authority as their teaching , and were they not alike directed and assisted in the one as the other . so st. paul , cor. . . let a man so account of us as of the ministers of christ , or apostles . cor. . , . i verily , as absent in body , but present in spirit , have judged already as though i were present , &c. in the name of the lord jesus christ , when ye are gathered together , and my spirit , &c. all which is to give authority to what they writ ; but what authority could that be of to oblige others to receive it , if they themselves received it not by inspiration ; and that their teaching and writing were not the same , and obtained in the same way ? . the holy scriptures are worthy of such authors as were inspired , and have upon them the characters of such inspiration . i have before proved , that the matter contained in scripture has upon it the characters of a divine revelation . but the design before us now is , to shew , that the writing it self has upon it such characters as will entitle it to divine inspiration , and is worthy of such persons to write , as were inspired . and that , . if we consider who the persons were that were the penmen of the sacred writ ; that were as well ignorant and illiterate , as learned . thus we find in the old testament , an amos that was no prophet , nor prophet's son , nor bred up in their schools , but an herdman , and gatherer of sycamore ▪ fruit , is made at once a prophet , and as inspired , as the great , the noble , and eloquent isaiah : and under the gospel , we find a matthew and a john , as well as a luke ; a peter as well as a paul. for when the workmanship proceeds not from the hand , but the intelligent mind ; not from the instrument , but the efficient ; it is not what the hand , the instrument , and agent is , but what the efficient pleases ; and so god could make an apostle and an inspired person out of an illiterate fisherman , as well as out of him that sate at the feet of gamaliel . for god chose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise , and the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty , &c. that no flesh should glory in his presence , cor. . . and as it was in preaching , so it is in writing the gospel , in which god no less gave them a mind to indite , than a mouth and wisdom in teaching , to speak . so that they needed no more to meditate before , what to write , than in that case what they should answer . it was there as the spirit gave them utterance , and here as that did direct , and assist , or suggest . st. paul exhorts timothy , to give attendance to reading , till he himself should come to give him farther instruction ; and to meditate and give himself wholly to them , that his profiting might appear to all , tim. . , &c. but we find no such dependance on human means in what they wrote : then it is paul an apostle , not of men , neither by man , but by jesus , and god the father ; the gospel he wrote was the same he taught ; and which when he wrote , he no more received from man , than when he taught , and which he was taught by the revelation of jesus christ , gal. . , , . and therefore where all was by revelation , it was not as the man was , but as he was made : and as st. peter was as much an apostle , an inspired teacher , so he was as much a divine writer as st. paul , and writes with the same divine power and authority , and with as much certainty and infallibility . so that there are as few objections ( if we strictly consider it ) made against the most illiterate as the most learned of the inspired writers ; against st. matthew and john , as against st. luke ; against st. peter , as st. paul. but now if those writers had wrote after man ( in st. paul's phrase ) and purely from themselves , as it was naturally impossible that ever those unlearned persons should apply themselves to study at the age of st. peter , and write of the most sublime arguments more to the satisfaction of mankind than the profoundest philosophers ; so it was impossible but that in their compositions they should have been guilty of manifold mistakes , when they wrote of such various points , and points of no small difficulty to explicate . but when the unlearned of them are as free from error as the learned , and as little liable to exception in what they writ , 't is evident they writ from the same spirit with , and had the same assistance as the learned . and therefore the supposed errors in any of them could not proceed from inadvertency , or unskilfulness , or want of right information ; but are rather errors supposed and imaginary , than real ; the mistakes of the reader or transcriber , rather than of the penmen ; as i have already shewed . ( serm. iv. ) for if the errors had proceeded immediately from the writer , they would have appeared more in the composures of the unlearned than the learned : but when the unlearned are as free from them as the learned , 't is an unquestionable sign that the unlearned wrote from the same spirit as the learned , and both from a spirit that is divine . . the scriptures will appear to be worthy of such authors as are inspired , if we consider the way in which they are written , which though not with excellency of speech , or of wisdom , that is , human , yet have such a majesty and authority shining through the whole , as gives them a lustre as much beyond other books , as the bodies of angels which they assumed for some special service , excelled those of mortals , and that were of a natural composition ; and of which we may say in the like phrase as nicodemus of our saviour , that none could write after this manner , except god were with them . i freely acknowledge , that they are not written according to the ordinary rules of art and method , which almighty god is no more obliged to observe , than he is to govern the world by the methods and rules that are ordinarily observed among mankind . for as in the government of the world , where there are different ends to pursue , and divers means to be made use of , god confines not himself to act as we would in such cases , but acts above all rule known to us , and sometimes punishes where we would spare , and spares where we would punish ; sometimes gives to those that we would deprive of such favours , and deprives those of them to whom we should think fit to give : so it is in the divine composures , in which he makes use of different hands and instruments , as there are different tempers in mankind : he makes use of the poetical vein in david , the oratory of an isaiah , the rusticity of an amos , the elegancy of a luke , the plainness of a peter , the profoundness of a paul , to serve the common design of instructing mankind in the knowledge of god , and their duty to him , without that artificial method which the learned part of the world expect to find , and think fit to observe . the heavens and the earth have upon them the signatures of an almighty power and wisdom , and which we may with david employ our most serious hours in the contemplation of , with pleasure and advantage . but yet there is no strict order visible to us , nor can be observed by us in the situation of the constellations ; nor can we give a reason why orion and the pleiades , or arcturus , are placed in that quarter of the heavens which is assigned them : and the earth is not like a garden laid out in order , but rather there seems to us a rude variety in the disposition of it ; and yet notwithstanding , who is there that doth not under all these seeming disadvantages , find out the traces of a divine original , and enough to entitle god to the creation of all ? and so it is in the holy scriptures , where there often seems wanting the accomplishments of human eloquence , the enticing words of man's wisdom , and that decorum and artifice which the books of human contrivance and invention are embellished with : but as the apostle saith , when he declined the words which man's wisdom ( whether of philosophers or orators ) teacheth , it was that their faith might stand not in the wisdom of men , but in the power of god : so we may see under the veil of a seeming irregularity so much beauty shining forth , and experiment so much virtue proceeding from it , that it will evidently appear , that the less there is of man in the composure , the more there is of god , and that it can have none for its author and inditer but him ; and which irregularity can no more detract from the authority and divine inspiration of the scripture , than it can be questioned whether the sun be the fountain of light , because of what we that are at a vast distance from it , call spots . for we are at a great distance from the apostolical age , and much more from the latest times of the inspired writers of the old testament , and so must needs be under some difficulties from our unacquaintedness with the style and way of writing , as well as the customs of those ages . and there will be therefore some spots and dark places in them as there are in the sun , not for want of light and elegance originally in them , no more than for want of light in the sun ; but because of some deficiency in our selves , that are at a distance , and under such circumstances as intercept our sight , and hinder us from making true and exact observations . but if we could but stand , as we are to judge of pictures , in the same light in which they were drawn ; and had lived in the same ages in which those books were written , we should be able to make a much truer judgment , and penetrate much farther into the meaning of them , than we now can do . but now though all the parts of scripture are not equally alike , but like the inspired writers themselves , of whom some were bred up in the nurseries of learning , and others fetch'd from the fishery and the sheepfold ; yet are they all plain in the same essential doctrine , and in which the salvation of mankind is concerned . and not only so , but the style and order of words , if thoroughly understood as to their propriety , elegance , and use , would be very surprizing ( if we may judge of what we do not know , by what we do ) ; which has not been unobserved even by some of the heathens . it was dionysius longinus the rhetorician , that admired the majesty and sublimity of moses's way of writing . it was amelius the platonist , that at the same time as he call'd st. john a barbarian ( a title which the greeks and romans bestow'd upon all but themselves ) found in his gospel the wisdom of a philosopher . but above all , we may see the footsteps of a divine and extraordinary assistance in the admirable discourses of our saviour and the apostles upon several occasions . let us , for instance , take a view of our saviour's last discourse with the disciples just before his death , as recorded by st. john , chap. . &c. turn we again to that of st. paul about a future state , and a resurrection to it , which is the subject of cor. . see it again in the close and sensible argumentations of the author to the hebrews . see it also in the very digressions which those holy pen-men sometimes , by breaking off from their subject in hand for a while , do fall upon ; where we shall find that which is equivalent to what is ordinarily said by the prophets in the messages they ▪ delivered , thus saith the lord ▪ and what is as expresly said , and will as much be found to be of divine revelation . it was certainly as much an effect of the divine power to direct , and assist , and even inspire those writers with such sublime notions , such convincing arguments , as it was of the divine commission to send the prophets with authority to publish the divine commands and decrees . and therefore it is a very frivolous exception which a late author makes against the divine authority of the apostolical writings , that they consist of long deductions and argumentations ; whereas , saith he , god doth not reason , but command , as he did by the prophets . but how often do we find in the prophets god arguing with the jews about the vanity of their idolatry , from the incomprehensible perfections of his nature , & c. ? how often using arguments to convince them of their immoralities and impieties ? how often exhorting them to repentance and reformation , from the most powerful considerations ? and therefore why are the apostles less inspired for that reason than the prophets ? when god speaks to men , and teaches one man by another , it is often after the manner of men ; and therefore as he doth sometimes require absolute obedience to his commands , so at other times he condescends so far as to shew them the equity and the reasonableness of them , both equally becoming the divine majesty , and which are a glorious instance of the divine wisdom conspicuous throughout the holy scripture ; thereby adding both to the excellency and the usefulness of it ; and advancing it in both above any book in the world. and for this , take the word of one ( who is otherwise no friend to our religion , or to the divine authority of the scriptures ) though in contradiction to himself . as the lustre of an oriental diamond is more clearly perceived when compared with counterfeit stones ; so christianity appears in its greatest glory and splendor , when compared with the obscurity of paganism ; the deformity of the one serving as a foil to the other . nor doth the divinity of the scriptures ever better appear , than when compared with the follies of the talmud , the alchoran , or the constitutions of the heathen law-givers ; which is an infallible sign of their excellence , that they so well bear the test of comparison . thus 〈◊〉 he . iv. general . how we prove the books that are now extant , and received by the christian church as canonical , to be those very books that were writ by persons inspired ? now this will receive a sufficient answer , if we prove , . that there were once such books . . that these are the very books which were once said to be canonical and inspired . . that these books are not corrupted , so as not to be the books now which once they were . . the first of these is not denied by the most violent adversaries , such as appion was to the jews , and celsus to the christians . . that these are the books which were heretofore penn'd by inspired persons , and received by the universal church as such , we have as much evidence as we have or can have for any thing past or distant in time or place from us , and which we our selves have not seen : and if we call in question the sufficiency of the evidence , or the truth of what is proved by it , we take away all the evidence that we can have , and the truth and certainty of whatever has been , or is , which we have not seen our selves . so that either these are those books , or there is nothing of that kind which we can depend upon ▪ . these books are uncorrupted , i mean , by design , or by accident . if by design , it must either be by jews , hereticks , or those that are called orthodox . . if by the jews , that must either be before the time of our saviour , or after it . if before , they would have certainly been taxed for it by our saviour and the apostles , who upon all occasions appeal to the scriptures ; and yet never charge them with any such falsifications . if they were corrupted by the jews after our saviour's time , how came they to leave those prophecies uncorrupted which manifestly and principally prove our saviour to be the messiah ? for surely if they adulterated , or expunged , or added to the less , they would have offered as much violence to the greater . but it is eviden● the jews were in a high degree superstitious , in preserving the copies of the scripture sound and entire . or if they would have attempted this , how could they do it , and not be discovered and challenged for it by the christians , who from that time forward had the scriptures of the old testament in their custody as well as themselves ? . it could not be by the hereticks , because the scriptures were soon dispersed over all the christian world , and were read both in publick and private ; and with that care and faithfulness , that they chose rather to part with their lives , than become traditores , and deliver up their bibles to be burnt ; and keeping then so watchful an eye upon them , they could not be perverted by their fraudulent arts , but they would soon be observed and complained of ; especially by those whose office it was above others to study and preserve them . so when marcion falsified the text , he was presently detected and exposed for it . . nor could it be by the orthodox , if any of them were so weak as to think to serve their cause by it : for as to the old testament , they were as watchfully observed by the jews , as the jews were by them ; and both the copies of the old and new were so soon and so far dispersed , that neither could any one attempt it with any likelihood of success , nor all agree in it , when impossible to convene for it . and therefore when manichaeus and his followers pretended the corruption of the scripture in their own vindication , they could not make out their charge , though provoked by st. austin , &c. to it . use . we may observe from hence , what a blessing we enjoy above the ages of tradition , when the knowledge of the truth was conveyed from hand to hand ; which so sensibly declined , that the truth was soon turn'd into fable , and that so few years after the flood as the time of terah , the greatest part of the world was overrun with idolatry ; so that for the retrieving it , god drew abraham out of that infected mass ▪ and enjoined him to set up a family separated from the rest of the world , that out of that he might constitute a church for his service . but we have that which those ages wanted ▪ a written and certain rule for our faith and manners ; and that so plainly and intelligibly wrote , and so compleatly and entirely furnished with all things necessary for us to know in order to the happiness of another life ; that as none in the christian church ( where the guides and teachers are faithful to their flock ) can be or must unavoidably be ignorant ; so neither can any person be defective in the knowledge of his duty , or void and destitute of a power of doing what is necessary toward his happiness , unless by his own fault . if we keep but to our rule , that is as an infallible compass to direct us , and we shall never fall short of knowing what god has revealed , or of obtaining what he hath promised . and here we may farther reflect upon our happiness in this church , that we have not the key of knowledge taken from us , and the truth lock'd up in an unknown tongue ( as in the church of rome ) but plainly and faithfully rendred in our own language , for the instruction and edification of all . what remains then , but that we make this our daily study , and labour to acquaint our selves with the rich treasures of useful and necessary knowledge contained in those sacred repositories , and making them as david did , a lamp to our feet , and endeavouring to conform our selves in all points to their holy prescriptions ; and then we shall most certainly have reason to rejoice in the comfort of the promises , and with patience look for that blessed hope and glorious appearance of the great god , and our saviour jesus christ . to whom , &c. finis . errata . sermon i. d edit . p. . l. . r. manner . p. . l. . for only r. wholly . sermon vi. ● . . marg. 〈◊〉 iv. p. . l. . dele . both the comma's . p. . l. . before and after that is dele ( , ) . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e serm. v. luk. . ● . hist . eccles . l. . c. . l. . c. . exod. . , . serm. v. p. . acts . . cor. . . tit. . . tim. . , . luke . . v. josephus con . app. l. . pet. . , . v. euseb ▪ eccl. hist . l. . c. , . l. . c. . l. . c. , &c. phil. . . & thes . lecture v. amos . . luke . , . cor. . , . cor. . , . euseb . praepar . theol. polit . c. . anima mundi , sect. . v. hieron . in . isa . v. philo de . egress● israel . ex ▪ aegypto . ▪ irenaus l. . c. . tertul ▪ contra marcion . l. . epiphan . haer. . aug. de util . cred. c. . scripture the rule of faith a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, febr. , / , being the second of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) scripture the rule of faith a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, febr. , / , being the second of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- sermons. bible. -- n.t. -- john v, -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - angela berkley sampled and proofread - angela berkley text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion scripture the rule of faith. a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , febr. . / . being the second of the lecture for this present year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poul●r●y . mdcxcvi . john v. . search the scriptures , for in them ye think ye have eternal life , and they are they which testify of me . after that our saviour had cured the impotent man at the pool bethesda , ver. . the jews sought to slay him , because he had healed him on the sābbathday , ver. . and so much the more were they bent upon this , as in vindication of himself he had said also that god was his [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] own proper father , making himself equal with god , v. . our saviour therefore , in the following part of this chapter , largely insists upon the explication and proof of what he had asserted , and appeals to a threefold testimony for his justification , viz. ( . ) that of john baptist , who bore witness of him , and to whom for a season they gave credit , ver. , , , . ( . ) his own works , ver. . they , saith he , bear witness of me , that the father hath sent me . ( . ) the scriptures , ver. . had ye believed moses , ye would have believed me : for he wrote of me . and in the text ; search the scriptures , for in them ye think , &c. the words may be either an appeal to the jews , and so are to be read by way of affirmation and concession , ye do search the scriptures , as it is in the margin : or they may be read imperatively and by way of exhortation , as it is in our version , search ye the scriptures . if we admit the former , then they are a reproof to the jews , that professed to be very conversant in those sacred books , so that not a word , syllable or tittle should escape their notice ( as it 's said in after-times of the masorites ) , and yet so little heeded what was the main subject of them , that they observed not how the characters belonging to the messias pointed plainly to him . but i conceive the words are to be understood as an exhortation , as the way of our saviour's arguing doth shew , which is from point to point , from john baptist , to his own works ; and from his works to the scriptures : and so st. basil and st. athanasius understand them . and if the words contain a duty , then they are an appeal of our saviour to the highest authority , that is , divine revelation , and what even the jews themselves admitted for such . so that should they reject the testimony of john baptist , whom they did at one time believe to be a prophet : or should they be so perverse ( as they sometime were ) as to impute our saviour's miraculous works to beelzebub ; yet the scriptures was a proof not to be gainsaid . for they themselves thought and judged ( as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies ) that eternal life was therein revealed , and by the direction whereof it was to be obtained ; and yet even those did testify of him . having brought the controversy thus far , it would in reason be at an end : thither therefore he remits them , to their authority he appeals , these he requires them to search ; and if they searched , and searched sincerely and impartially , they would find him ( whom they now traduced , and whose life they sought ) to be the messias there described . so he concludes his discourse , there is one that accuseth you , even moses , in whom ye trust . for had ye believed moses and his writings , ye would have believed me : for he wrote of me , ver. , . or as it is in the text ; they testify of me . from the words i observe ; . that notwithstanding there is a revelation from god , and owned to come from him ; yet there may be disputes about points contained in that revelation . it was so here , the jews as well as our saviour believed the old testament to be a divine revelation , and to contain all things necessary to everlasting life ; and yet there was a dispute about an article of no less importance than whether our saviour was the messias therein prophesied of , and whom they hoped for salvation by . . there is a direction what to do in this case , and that is to repair to the rule ; search the scriptures , impartially examine them , and compare what is therein revealed with what our saviour affirmed concerning himself . . there is the final decision of the case , and that is by the scriptures . you grant , saith he , they contain all things necessary to eternal life , and they are they which testify of me . thereby he is willing to abide , and thereby they ought to be concluded . . here is a further direction how to search , implied in the verses following , ver. , &c. and that is with humility and diligence ; with impartiality and sincerity , without prejudice and prepossessions . the words , we see , contain a plain resolution of a case of great importance , and that is , what is to be done in matters of doubt or controversy , and how persons should proceed to obtain due satisfaction . and here the first thing to be agreed upon , is , by what shall we be tried , what is the rule which is to determine us , and which we must abide by ? the next thing is , who shall be the judge ? the third is , what are the qualifications of such as are to judge ? to the first , our saviour answers , we must go to the scriptures ; for if it be a matter of consequence , and concerns eternal life , there to be sure it is contained , and there it is to be found . as to the second , he saith , the persons concerned are to search ; those that doubt , question or deny , are carefully to examine . as to the third , he saith , they must lay aside all other interests , and search with all humility , as those that love god , and seek after the honour that cometh from him only , ver. . so that by this resolution of the case we have gained two or three considerable points , towards the resolving all doubts , and ending all controversies in the christian church : and they are , . that the scriptures are the only rule , by which we are to judge and determine concerning points of faith , and necessary to salvation . . that it appertains to all persons to have recourse to , and to judge by this rule concerning matters of that nature , and which are of that importance . . a direction how to search , and that is with modesty and humility , with sincerity and impartiality . st . the scriptures are the only rule by which we are to judge and determine concerning articles of faith , and matters necessary to salvation . 't is on all hands granted , that there must be some authority which faith is to be resolved into : for faith is no other than an assent to some proposition or propositions upon authority : and according as the authority is , such is our faith , humane or divine . so that divine faith must have divine authority , and divine authority is no other than divine revelation , delivered at sundry times and in divers manners , written or unwritten . and where there is no verbal revelation by persons divinely inspired , the written word is the only authority that faith can be resolved into ; which our saviour here appeals to , and propounds as a means sufficient , and in their circumstances , as the only means for ending the dispute . the question here in debate was ( as i observed before ) , whether jesus was the messias prophesied of in the old testament ? this the jews denied , and our saviour affirms , appealing for proof of it to john baptist , to his own works , and to the scriptures , and there he leaves it . for this was the old and true way of deciding matters of that nature ; to the law and to the testimony ; if they speak not according to this word , there is no light in them . indeed in after ages a party of the jews rose up , that taught for doctrines the commandments of men ; that did exalt their traditions to an equal authority with the divine law , and made it equally a fault to transgress them ; as our saviour charges it upon them ( of which more anon ) ; but our saviour shews the invalidity of this , and directs them to the fountain of all revealed truth , the holy scriptures then extant , as a rule sufficient to guide them , and of authority sufficient to determine them . and this was the course he at other times took : as doth the young ruler put a serious case to him ; good master , what shall i do that i may inherit eternal life ? our saviour answers , thou knowest the commandments . do the sadduces , that denied a future state and a resurrection to it , contend with our saviour about it ? he argues with them from the scriptures , ye do err , not knowing the scriptures . — as touching the resurrection of the dead , have ye not read , &c. would he instruct the disciples in the great articles of faith ? he doth it from those sacred oracles : ought not christ to have suffer'd ? &c. and beginning at moses and all the prophets , he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself . in like manner did the apostles proceed to convince the jews of their incredulity : so st. paul reasoned with them out of the scriptures , opening and alledging , that christ must needs have suffered and risen again , and that this jesus is the christ . so apollos shewed by the scriptures , that this jesus was the christ . to this they always remitted them , as to a rule certain and sufficient , and without which nothing was to be received as an article of faith. to a rule certain , called therefore by st. peter . , . a more sure word of prophecy , and which he prefers before a voice from heaven . and a rule sufficient , that is ( as st. paul saith ) able to make wise unto salvation , and thoroughly to furnish even the man of god , the teacher , unto all good works . and when these things were spoken at that time more immediately of the jewish canon of the old testament , they may equally as well be applied to the new ; which is not only as much the scripture ( as st. peter calls it , pet. . . as i have before proved ) but also by the addition of it , renders the old much more intelligible and complete . now there can be no imaginable reason assigned why the scripture which was then sufficient in all points necessary to salvation , and for resolving of faith , should now be insufficient after the revelation made by christ : that is , that we should be more at a loss with the more clear , full , and perfect revelation , than they were under the less perfect ; that what in the last days god deliver'd and reveal'd by his son , should be less sufficient to direct us , than what he spoke at sundry times and in divers manners in times past to the jews by the prophets . and especially considering , that there was a time when their circumstances were much the same with ours , which was in the long interval of or years between the finishing of the jewish canon in the pr●phecy of malachi , ( with whom revelation ceased ) and the appearance of john baptist . in which time they were left , as we are , wholly to the written word of god for their direction , and the sole authority they were to rely upon . since then in the christian church there is no more need of any traditionary or unwritten word , than the jews had at that time at le●st , under the law ; and no more proof to be made of it now than there was then ; it follows , that the scripture is the only rule , in exclusion to all others ; and what is not contained therein by positive proof , nor by evident consequence to be deduced from it , can no more be of divine authority and obligation to christians , than unwritten traditions were then to the jews . this is the true re●olution of faith ; and if our saviour in a point of such importance , as his being the messiah , put the case upon this issue , we have good reason to think that it is still the true method of reasoning among christians , and of resolving any point of faith and doctrine necessary to salvation . and therefore supposing we would find out the truth of any doctrine thus necessary and fundamental , we must come hither for direction and resolution ; and if it has no foundation in scripture , we are to reject it . for it is a rule in the law , quod instrum●ntum non dicit , nec nos dicere debemus ; or as it is usually said , where that has not a tongue to speak , we are not to have an ear to hear ▪ 't is then a doctrine of men , and may be a tradition of the elders , but is no fundamental article of the christian faith. but grant this ; yet it has been before yielded , that doubts and disputes may arise in the church about the sense of this written rule ; and therefore who shall be the arbiter to judge and determine ; o● how shall the doubter be resolved ; or how shall he be sure of the sense and meaning of that which is disputed ? our saviour here directs what is to be done ; search the scriptures , examine and prove all by this rule . he doth not direct them to any speaking infallible guide , nor to any church , nor persons into whom their faith is to be resolv'd , but puts them themselves upon the trial of it . whence it follows , . that every man is to judge for himself . certainly if ever there were a necessity of an infallible judge to determine points of controversy to mens hands , it had been in the long interval before spoken of , between the cessation of prophecy , and the appearance of our saviour ; when there were divers sects risen up among the jews , continually contending one with another , and oftentimes about matters of very great importance . of which i shall give a few instances : ( . ) there was at that time a notable controversy about the church , which was the true . this was the case between the jews and samaritans ; as 't is stated by the woman of samaria , joh. . . our fathers , saith she to our saviour , worshipped in this mountain gerizim , and ye say that jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship : that is , ye say , yours is the true church , and we say ours is that true church : and each of these were so violently addicted to their own way , that the jews would have no dealing with the samaritans , nor so much as ask drink of them in their necessity , v. . and on the other side , the samaritans would not so much as receive the jews into their houses , luk. . . nay so high did the contest grow between them , that it ingaged them in the fiercest quarrels , even to assaults and assassinations , where-ever they were , out of canaan as well as in it ; as their historian reports . and though that samaritan temple was afterward utterly destroyed by hyrcanus about years before our saviour ; yet the prejudices and animosities continued , till both fell under the common and final destruction by the romans . ( . ) another point in controversy was about a future state , and the resurrection to it . this was disputed between the pharisees and the sadducees : for the sadducees held that there was no resurrection , nor angel , nor separate spirit , existing out of a body ( for that the jews called a spirit ) ; but the pharisees confessed both . ( . ) another material controversy that then divided the church , was , what was the rule of faith ? for the sadducees would admit the law of moses only to be of that authority ; and what was not therein contained , was among them accounted of no validity ; and therefore they denied a future state , because ( as they pretended ) there was no proof of it from that law. but the pharisees , whatever respect they might give to the law above the other books of scripture , yet allowed both to be of the same authority ; and so what was contained in any of them , to be the object of faith. again ; the sadducees were for scripture alone without any traditions ; but the pharisees set their traditions in the same rank with the scriptures , and would have both of the same obligation ( as has been aforesaid , p. ) and if either was to give way to the other , the scripture was rather to give way to tradition , than tradition to the scripture . about which matters there were often great disputes and differences between these two powerful factions , as the historian relates ; so that however they were concerned in the government , yet the flame broke out upon every occasion , and which st. paul made his advantage of , who when he perceived that the one part of the councel were pharisees and the other sadducees , cried out , i am a pharisee , and the son of a pharisee ; of the hope and resurrection of the dead i am called in question . by these means they filled the whole nation with bandyings and feuds ; the great men generally siding with the sadducees , and the people with the pharisees , as the same author saith . ( . ) another point in controversy among them was about the messias . this was a character much pretended to by several about the time of our saviour ; and was the chief subject in dispute between him and the ruling-part of the jews . points surely these were of great importance ; viz. which is the true church ? what is the rule of faith ? whether there be a future life ? and whether jesus be the messias ? and points these were that the whole nation of the jews was divided about : so that in all appearance there was scarcely ever a greater occasion for a determining-power to put this case to an issue . now if there had been any such infallible authority , any such concluding-power visible and known ; as it was then , if ever , necessary : so no doubt , there would have been appeals to it in these disputes among themselves , and with our saviour . and in reason it may be thought our saviour would readily have appeal'd to it ; because the judge being infallible , could never have determined and given it against him. but we read of no such appeals in scripture ; but on the contrary , our saviour puts them upon another way of enquiry ; not to search after a living and infallible judge , by whom they were to be finally concluded ; but to search the scriptures , as the infallible rule by which they were to be determined . and accordingly the apostles advised their auditors to the same course ; that they should thereby prove all things , and hold fast what upon trial they found to be good and true . that they should not believe every spirit , every pretender to revelation and infallibility , but should try the spirits whether they were of god ; and there was good reason it seems for it , because , saith the apostle , many false prophets are gone out into the world. joh. . . that pleaded inspiration and a divine mission and authority for what they taught ; as is manifest from the epistles of the apostles : and yet the apostles ( who themselves had the spirit of infallibility and immediate revelation ) referr'd the jews to the written word as the rule , and to their own reason and conscience as the judge . if ever any might have required an implicit faith , and an absolute and a blind obedience to their judgment , it was christ and his apostles , and yet we find that they would have all try and examine , weigh and consider . it being an innate privilege of mankind not to be led blindfold ; but to be governed by their reason , a privilege that true religion doth evermore preserve , and what every man is obliged to defend , since every man must give an account of himself to god : and therefore the bereans are commended by st. paul , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more generous and free-spirited , who searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were true , which that apostle taught , and compared one with another , his doctrine with that holy standard ; and finding them to accord , they received the word with all readiness of mind . so manifest is it , that in the apostolical times every man was to judge for himself , and to use the same reason in religion , which he used in the common affairs of life . all that those inspired writers desired , was , that men would search , and search impartially ; and then they did not question but as they would be like the bereans in temper , so they would be alike prevailed with in the conclusion , and receive the truth with the like promptitude and readiness of mind ; toward the finding out of which , searching and honesty go a great way . and whereas it might have been thought , however , that the times would come when the apostles should leave the world , and immediate inspiration should cease with them , and so men would be left to their own fallible judgment in the interpretation of the rule : yet there is no other provision made by our saviour and the apostles for preventing any such inconvenience ( though they foresaw and foretold there would be deceivers and impostors ) ; but all future-ages were left in the very same circumstances with the jews in that period of years before spoken of . the divine writers supposing that there was in the scriptures such a plain and full revelation of all things necessary to be known in order to salvation , and there would be so much reason and sense in mankind ( where so great an interest as their salvation was concerned ) that with ordinary and common helps , such as prayer and consideration , and advice and appointed teachers are , that they would be able to find out the truth , or as much of it as was necessary to their salvation , if they came to it with sincere and well-disposed minds : and that god would never suffer such to want ability , opportunities and means for it ; or be wanting in mercy to them , in forgiving and passing by such defects as were unavoidable to them in their circumstances . but that belongs to the next head ; and that is , . the direction , what to do in this case , which is to search , that is , with diligence and impartiality . supposing this , that every man is to judge for himself , then persons will judge differently , and there will be eternal and endless disputes . to this our saviour fits an answer , not only in the direction given in the text , but also in the subsequent part of his discourse , which amounts to thus much ; that we are to search with diligence and impartiality . the former is implied in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 search , and which is very requisite in matters of such importance as those were which our saviour is here discoursing upon , and that is no less than his being the messias , the son of god. a subject that from the quality of it , and the various passages in scripture relating to it , requir'd due consideration . for though the scriptures are so plain in most necessary points , that in the prophet's phrase , the wayfaring men though fools shall not err therein , and what are as soon understood as they are read : yet there are even some of those that in the nature of the thing require a strict and careful attendance : of which kind are such as contain the characters of the messiah ; and therefore lye not so open to a superficial eye , but that they may be misunderstood ; and he that would then know and understand the force of the argument referring to it , must search . our saviour doth not therefore say only , that the scriptures testify of him , but requires them to search , if they would be satisfied in it . for though proofs of this nature often are like mines , that lie deep , yet upon searching they are to be found : and if so , then our ignorance is not to be imputed to their obscurity , but to our own negligence , that we take not that course which is proper thereunto , and may very justly be requir'd . but there is a further qualification requisite , and that is sincerity and impartiality . our saviour here resolves the infidelity of the jews into obstinacy and insincerity . they had another interest to mind , a reputation to maintain , ver. . ye will not come to me . ver. . ye have not the love of god in you . ver. . how can ye believe , which receive honour one of another , and seek not the honour which cometh from god only ? these and the like vicious inclinations hinder from searching , or from finding the truth if they search , or from receiving it though they find it . persons thus disposed will then handle the word of god deceitfully , and like artificial orators put what colour they please upon it . they will pervert and wrest , distort and writhe the text , till they force it to serve the cause they espouse , and are resolved beforehand to maintain . and so it would be , if there were an infallible judge , and so it was when there were inspired persons in the church , when our saviour himself was in the chair , and the apostles were helpers of their faith. so that there is no fence in the world against perverseness and obtinacy , against pride and self conceit , against interest and self-seeking . these things indeed will make the scripture difficult , and truth unintelligible , though ne'er so plain in it self , or never so evidently proved : when in the phrase of scripture , their heart is waxed gross , and their ears are dull of hearing , and they have closed their eyes , lest at any time they should see with their eyes , and hear with their ears , and understand with their heart . for then it is with such as with a sickly stomach , that will nauseate the most wholsome and delightful diet : in which case it is not the fault of the diet , but of the stomach , which wants an appetite , or of the palate that wants the savour , which is the occasion of the disorder ; and for remedy of which , the body is to be cured , and the stomach to be restored to its natural tone and temper ; and then the same diet will be nourishing and grateful as before . so it is in the case before us , where it is not the understanding but the will that is in the fault , or some pre-occupations and sinister inclinations , that do cloud the mind and keep it from judging , or dispose it by such fatal biasses to judge amiss . but now if the contrary temper prevail , that men lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness , all prejudices and interests , and receive with meekness the ingrafted word : if they are candid and ingenuous , free and impartial , and come with an hearty desire to know the truth , and with a stedfast resolution to be guided by it ( whether it be for or against their worldly interest ) , and to do according to what they know , they shall not finally and fundamentally mistake ; according to our saviour's resolution of this case , joh. . . if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine , whether it be of god , or , saith he , whether i speak of my self . so again , if ye continue in my word , then are ye my disciples indeed , and ye shall know the truth , john . , . for god will not leave an honest mind without such means as shall be sufficient for the understanding of all things necessary to salvation . he that sent a philip to an eunuch , and an angel to cornelius , and called to a saul out of heaven , will present such occasions , give such assistance , or direct to such instructors , that shall , as aquila to apollos , expound unto them the way of god more perfectly . and if we put the case , that a person sincerely disposed to know and receive the truth should fall into error ( for man is a fallible creature ) , yet the error shall not be damnable , but what may be as consistent with his being a christian and orthodox , as infirmities are with a good man , and sincerity . for as in the present state , which is a state of infirmity , there is no arriving to such an established temper of virtue and goodness , but that elijah , and paul , and barnabas , and the best of men were subject to like passions with others : so neither is it possible by the utmost diligence , and the most laborious searching , to find out the truth , so as ne'er to mistake nor embrace error for it ( for that would as much be above the state of nature thus to be infallible , as impeccable ) ; nor is it necessary , when a person may be saved with all tolerable errors , as with natural and unavoidable infirmities . and this then neither the providence of god , nor the promise of our saviour are concerned to prevent : for these are like diseases that belong to the quality of the state we are in ; and are no more to be prevented , than our nature and our state are to be alter'd , and of imperfect to be made perfect . but so far both the promise , and the providence of god , in confirmation of that promise , are concerned , that a person of a truly sincere mind , continuing such , shall no more fall into a damnable error without his own fault and choice , than be guilty of a damnable sin ; for that would be to leave him in a damnable condition , who upon the terms of the gospel otherwise most certainly should be saved . for no sin under that dispensation damns , but what is wilful ; according to that known saying of st. austin , nihil ardet in inferno nisi propria voluntas . or however , if he should fall into such an error , as is against a fundamental article , and for the quality of it , is damnable : yet it shall not be damnable to him . it is a case special , and what , though it falls not within the ordinary rules of the gospel , shall however taste of the mercy of it . the apostle speaks of damnable heresies ; and we have those truths which we call fundamental , and both are rightly so termed ; because those truths are so essential to the christian faith , that it cannot be the christian faith without them : and those heresies are so destructive to the christian faith , that it cannot be the christian faith with them . but yet because it is an error of invincible ignorance , and what proceeds from a mere defect in the understanding , and not in the will , we may charitably conceive , that it being not that sort of heresy , which is a work of the flesh , god will not impute it to such to their condemnation ; and that their piety towards god , and charity towards men , shall through christ's merits and intercession do more to save them , than their involuntary mistakes , how great soever , shall do to damn them : since god requires according to that a man hath , and not according to that he hath not . but because for the most part the error is rather in the will than in the understanding , or at least is then the more pernicious of the two : therefore as we should enquire after the truth , and be careful to receive it when it is proposed ; so it is as necessary that we should receive the truth in the love of it , and then it will have an influence upon us proportionable to the consequence and importance of it . and as they are the best , most useful and necessary principles that most of all tend to make men good and religious ; so that is the best testimony of our being in the right , and that our principles are true , that we are thereby made more holy and pure , more just and charitable . i look upon this as an undoubted evidence of the truth of the christian revelation , that it most of all conduces to such an excellent end ; and it will appear that he best understands it , that makes it the rule of his life as well as of his faith ; which if he doth , as he cannot likely mistake in his enquiry after truth , so it 's certain in the issue he shall not miscarry . for then he that comes thus prepared to search the scriptures , will both find what they testify unto , and obtain that eternal life , which is therein revealed and promised . there it is then that the matters of greatest consequence are to be found , and all points relating to them are resolved , such as do most nearly concern our eternal happiness . and if scriptures do require our utmost diligence and care to find out their meaning , yet in the issue when found out , it will reward all our pains , though it be as great as the affairs of this present life are not managed nor accomplished without . i do acknowledge the church of rome hath put this mattet into a far more compendious course , if it were as true as it is short , by an infallible judge , who by an ipse dixit , without giving any reason , stamps upon all he saith , an uncontroulable authority ; but that must be , if a person is so near the papal chair , as to have the infallible ear to apply himself to , and immediately receives the dictates from the infallible oracle . for if he be remote from him , and receives all by written decrees , or the oral tradition of others , it issues then into a kind of infallible rule , and fails to be the sentence of the infallible judge . for words and writings if they once fall into fallible hands , according to them , cease to be infallible , and are as much subject to difficulties , and about the sense of which have often happen'd as endless contentions and misunderstandings , as ever they can pretend have happened to an infallible rule . therefore they are no safer , nor less subject to err by the having an infallible judge , than we by an infallible rule : nay , so much the worse is it with them , as we cannot suppose that an infallible judge ( if we go to their fountain-head ) can more clearly interpret the divine rule , than god himself could and did direct and dictate to those who wrote it . so that at last they are left with all their pretences to infallibility , in a condition worse than those that have an infallible rule for their director ; and that with their own diligence and searching , and the blessing of god concurring therewith , like apollos , become mighty in the scriptures , act. . . : for to such is that spoken which never was said to any infallible judge , if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of god. finis . errata . serm . st . page . line . read needs . p. . l. . r. enthusiastical . p. . l. . r. of one among them . p. . margin add v. dr. gedis , of the ecclesiastical state of ethiopia . appendix . serm. d . p. . l. . r. and things . p. . l. . r. . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e [ bas . l. . bapt. c. . athan . tom. . p. . par. . ] isai . . . mat. . , , . mar. . , &c. mark . . mat. . , . luk. . . act. . , . act. . . tim. . , . serm. . joseph antiq. l. . c. . & . l. . c. . & . l. . c. acts . . matt. . . luk. . , . v. light-foot tal. exercit. on acts. joseph antiq. l. . c. . acts . . thes . . . cor. . . tit. . . ep. john . ver . rom. ▪ . acts . , &c. mat. ▪ . tim . . pet. . . isa . . cor. . . . . eph. . . pet. . . m●tth . . . jam. . . acts . . . . . . act. . . jam. . . acts . pet. . . gal. . . cor. . . thess . . . the possibility, expediency, and necessity of divine revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, jan. . / : at the beginning of the lecture for the ensuing year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the possibility, expediency, and necessity of divine revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, jan. . / : at the beginning of the lecture for the ensuing year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . boyle, robert, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ric. chiswell ... and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. half title: dr. williams's first sermon at mr. boyle's lecture, . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng revelation -- sermons. salvation -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r. williams's first sermon at m r. boyle's lecture . . imprimatur , jan. . / ; . guil. lancaster . the remaining sermons for this year will be preach'd at st. martins , the first mondays of february , march , april , may , september , october , and november . the possibility , expediency , and necessity of divine revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , jan. . / . at the beginning of the lecture for the ensuing year . founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard : and tho. cockerill , at the three legs in the poultrey . m dc xc v. to the most reverend father in god , thomas lord archbishop of canterbury . sir henry ashhurst , knight and baronet . sir john rotheram , serjeant at law. john evelyn , senior , esquire . trustees by the appointment of the honourable robert boyle , esquire . most honoured , having by your generous election entred this year upon the lecture founded by the honourable robert boyle , the great encourager of piety and learning , it becomes me in obedience to your order , and according to the intent of the deceased , to present you with the first-fruits of my labour . the subject i treat of is of vniversal concernment to the christian world , and is to be handled with reverence and care : the former i shall all along keep in my eye , and the latter i shall not neglect , as far as in me lies : but whatever defects your better judgments shall espy throughout these composures , i hope the same goodness that disposed you to place me in this sphere , will incline you to overlook ; and to accept of the sincere endeavours of , most honoured , your most faithful and humble servant , john williams . heb. i. , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners , spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son. there are two ways by which mankind may attain to the knowledge of divine things ; namely , natural or supernatural . natural is what we have springing up with our faculties , or what we attain by natural means , by sight , observation , and experience , by tradition ( which is the history of others knowledge and experience ) ; and lastly , by reason and argument , deducing effects from their proper causes , or finding out the cause by its effects : as for instance ; thus we come to the knowledge of god by observing the frame of the world , by the series , order , and course of things , which could never be without some cause to produce them , and that cause no less than one infinitely powerful and wise . thus we argue , that there is a soul in man distinct from the body , and surviving a separation from it ; forasmuch as there are such operations as are not competent to matter ; and that there is such a desire of immortality placed in mankind , as would make the flower and choicest part of the visible creation , the most miserable , if there was no capacity in the soul for such a state , or no such state for a soul capable of it . such inferences as these , are as natural to a reasonable mind , as those observations are which we make from the reports of sense ; and are therefore deservedly accounted branches of natural religion . now this kind of knowledge is more or less evident , is stronger or weaker , according to the capacities and dispositions of mankind , and according to the opportunities and means they have of information . and therefore a philosopher that sets himself to enquire into the mysteries of nature , and to observe the curiosity , order and beauty of its fabrick , may , in reason be supposed to be more confirmed in the belief of a god , and more disposed to serve and adore him , than he that is ignorant ; as he that understands painting or carving , can more observe and applaud the ingenuity and skill of the artist , than he that is unacquainted with it . but after all , so much is the subject above our reach , and so dark and intricate are all our reasonings upon it , that the sagest philosopher , in the conclusion , is left as unsatisfied as the meanest peasant ; and perhaps more unsatisfied with his knowledge , and the deep and unfathomable abyss he sees before him , than the other is with his ignorance ; so far making good what solomon observes , he that increaseth knowledge , increaseth sorrow , eccles . . . so that there needs some brighter light than that of nature , to conduct us to happiness , and bring us to a compleat and entire satisfaction ; and that is a supernatural knowledge , a knowledge that is not to be obtained by the ways aforesaid , by enquiry and observation , but by inspiration and revelation from almighty god. and this is the subject of the text. god who at sundry times , and in divers manners , spake in time past by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son. in which words we have , . a description given of revelation , it 's god's speaking to the fathers , &c. that is , it is god's delivering his mind to mankind by persons chosen for that purpose , and peculiarly fitted for it by inspiration . such were the prophets in time past , and the son in the last days . . the certainty of it ; it is by way of declaration , god who at sundry times , and in divers manners , spake , &c. the apostle takes this for granted , as having been sufficiently proved , and so needs no farther confirmation . so it was in times past , when god spake by the prophets ; and so it was in the last days in the revelation of the gospel , which at the first began to be spoken by the lord , and was , saith our apostle , confirmed unto us by them that heard him : god also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders , and with divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost , chap. . , . and therefore as moses did not think himself obliged at the entrance into his divine work , to prove there is a god , and that god made the world , when there is such an inbred knowledge of a deity implanted in human nature , and such clear and undoubted evidences of it throughout the universe ; but supposes and asserts it , in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth : &c. so after such manifest proofs of the divine authority of both the prophetical and evangelical revelation , the apostle would not so much as suppose any doubt in the minds of those he wrote to ; but begins his epistle , with a certain majesty becoming an inspired author , god who at sundry times , &c. . the order observed in delivering that revelation , it was at sundry times , and in divers manners . at sundry times , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or in several parts ; which may refer either to the several ages and periods , viz. the patriarchal , mosaical , and prophetical ; or to the several manifestations of divine revelation through those ages and periods ; from the first embryo of it in adam , to the close of it in john the baptist ; in whom the time past ended , and the last days began . in divers manners , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to the manifold ways the divine spirit thought fit to communicate it self ; whether by illapses on the persons inspired , or by raptures , visions , voices , &c. . the perfection and completion of divine revelation ; god hath in these last days spoken by his son. so that what was gradually , and at sundry times , delivered in time past to the prophets , was at once intirely and perfectly revealed by the son of god , whom he hath appointed heir of all things . under the first of these i shall shew , . what we mean by revelation . . the possibility of god's revealing himself so to the creature , that the creature shall certainly and evidently know that it is god that speaketh . . the expediency , usefulness , and necessity of a revelation , with respect to the circumstances mankind are in . under the second i shall shew , . that as it 's possible for god to reveal himself , and expedient and necessary for man that there should be a revelation ; so god has actually thus revealed himself at sundry times , and in divers manners by the prophets , through the several periods before spoken of , and in the last days by his son. . i shall consider the difference between a real and pretended revelation , and how we may distinguish the true from the false . . i shall shew , that the scriptures of the old and new testament contain the matter of divine revelation , and have upon them the characters belonging to it . under the third , . i shall consider the several ways by which god did reveal himself in times past by the prophets , as by illapses , inspirations , visions , &c. . i shall endeavour to shew the difference between divine inspirations , and diabolical illusions , natural impressions , and delusory imaginations . . i shall consider the several periods before the law , under the law , and under the gospel ; and the gradual progress of revelation from first to last , from the lower to the higher degree , and the perpetual respect one had to the other . . i shall consider why god did thus gradually , and at sundry times , proceed in revealing his will to mankind ; and why he did not at the first communicate his will to them as fully , and perfectly , as he did in the last days by his son. under the fourth , i shall shew the perfection of the gospel-revelation , and that there is not to be any other revelation till the end cometh when our lord shall be revealed from heaven , and shall deliver up the kingdom to the father . i have chosen thus at once to lay in order the scheme of what i intend ( god granting life and assistance ) to pursue ; that so the dependance of one upon another , and the assistance each point gives to the other throughout the whole , might be the better observed . i. i am to begin with revelation . . where i am to consider , what we mean by revelation ; which is nothing else in the first notion , but the making known that which before was a secret ; so things revealed and secret , are opposed , deut. . . and when it 's applied to a religious use , it 's god's making known himself , or his will , to mankind , over and above what he has made known by the light of nature and reason . here we may observe , that there are three classes , into which whatever is the object of our knowledge may be reduced . . there are things of pure and simple nature , and knowable by the light of it , without revelation ; of this kind is the knowledge of god by the effects of a divine power and wisdom in the world ( as has been shewed ) of which the apostle treats , rom. . . the invisible things of him , from the creation of the world are clearly seen , being understood by the things that are made , even his eternal power and godhead . . there are things of pure and simple revelation , that are not knowable by the light of nature , but only by revelation ; and if not revealed , are never in this state ( at least ) to be known or found out by mankind ; of this sort is the salvation of the world by jesus christ , which was not discoverable by men or angels ; so the apostle describes the mystery of it , ephes . . , . which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in god , — to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places , might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of god. so pet. . . . there are things partly of nature , and partly of revelation , discoverable by the light of nature , but imperfectly , which we see , as it were , through a glass darkly ; and so they need revelation to give them farther proof and evidence ; of this the apostle gives an instance , tim. . . when he saith our saviour brought life and immortality to light through the gospel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , making it as evident as the light ; whereas before it was rather wished for , than certain , as was the case of the heathens ; or much involv'd in types , as among the jews , heb. . , &c. so that revelation , of which sort soever it is , is supernatural , and is only from god. . i shall shew the possibility of a revelation , and that almighty god , if he so pleases , can so reveal himself to the creature , that the creature shall certainly and evidently know that the revelation comes from god. this one would reasonably think should need no proof ; and i shall therefore briefly touch upon it , tha● i may proceed to the third , which i principally intend to make the subject of this present discourse . i say it 's possible for god to reveal himself to his creatures . ( . ) why should this be questioned , when we every day see men mutually discover their minds each to other ; and by the use and direction of certain organical powers , signify their intentions , desires , and commands ? and why may not the creator reveal his will to the creature , when one creature thus can do it to another ? ( . ) why should this be questioned , when we may be certain evidences know that a person is sent from god ? and then certainly the person that produces such evidences as are to the satisfaction of others , may himself be satisfied of the truth of his own commission , and the certainty of a divine revelation . the former , that others may be satisfied concerning a mission from god , is evident from such things declared , which none but god could reveal , as prophecies ; and such things done , which none but god , in man , could do , as miracles . where these are , they are as evident proofs of a revelation and mission from god , as the works of creation are a proof a divine agent . the works of creation prove a god , because they are worthy of such an infinite cause , and what none but such a cause could produce : and when such things are discovered , which none but an omniscient being could discover , and such things done , which none but an almighty power could do ; we are , by a parity of reason , as sure that there is such a revelation by which such things are made known , and in confirmation of which such mighty works are done . ( . ) if this be questioned , it must be from a deficiency in god to impart such a revelation to man ; or that there is an incapacity in man to receive it . but how can god's power herein be questioned that he can operate thus on the soul , when he both created it , and is thoroughly acquainted with all the secret springs of motion , all the tendencies and inclinations , all the thoughts and desires of it , and consequently must be supposed to have a power of directing it as he pleases ? and how can there be any incapacity in man , when as to the matter he can both receive it , and deliver it as he received ; and as to the manner , it 's in a way suitable to his faculties , and is therefore call'd here , god's speaking to the prophets , which is so as the other may understand . this is a matter so evident , that it has been generally believed throughout the world among the heathens ; and therefore nothing more common than to have oracles , places where they were wont to consult their deities , as well as the jews had theirs : a subject i am not at present concerned in , but it 's sufficient to shew what has been the sense of all ages in this case : and which even those that would call this in question , in part consent to , while they grant somewhat equivalent to it , if not a branch of it , i mean prophecy ; which when it falls not within the power of any natural causes , is the product of what is supernatural , and what the prophet must then receive from a higher hand , god. grant this , and the whole will follow ; for if it be possible in one case , it 's possible in all , to one and the same infinite power . . i am to consider the expedience , usefulness , and necessity of a revelation ; for that is here supposed , when it 's said , god spake in time past , and in these last days ; that is , from the beginning of the world to that time . now revelation is a means extraordinary ( as has been shewed ) and consequently such as the means are , such must the case be , extraordinary ; for god , not doing any thing in vain , cannot be supposed to use extraordinary means , where the case is ordinary , and may as well be served by ordinary means . thus it is in miracles , which are acts above the common standard of nature , and are then only exerted , when nothing less will engage the attention of faith of mankind . and so it is in revelation , which is to the light of reason , what miracles are to the common law of nature , supernatural and extraordinary ; and consequently where almighty god takes that course for the information of mankind , it shews that there is some deficiency or corruption that calls for it , and makes it expedient and necessary . as it was with adam at his first creation , who being an utter stranger to himself , and the world he was at once brought into , without some further kind of information , instead of a pleasure he might have taken in viewing the glorious fabrick of the heavens , and the variety of creatures in the earth , must have been full of amazement and confusion . for in so wide a scene as was before him , where must he begin , or where could he hope to end ? how divided must he be in his own mind ? what a cold and dry speculation would it have been , if he had hit upon it , to have concluded , with that modern philosopher , cogito , ergo sum ; i think , therefore i am ? he indeed felt himself to be , but how he came to be , he knew not ; for he saw nothing about him that could either be supposed to have given him that being , or could tell him how he came by it . he saw he had a body , and a body that obsequiously moved as he pleased to direct and determine ; but what that body was originally made of , he could not possibly tell : for how could he suppose such warm , soft , and tender flesh , those firm and well compacted joynts , those radiant and sparkling eyes ( which he had as other living creatures ) that moveable and limber , and well-complexioned matter of which his body consisted , should be formed out of cold , moveless , crumbling , and shapeless earth ? he felt his body move , and pliable in all its motions to his will , and quick as thought to answer his mind , but what that inward principle was that moved it , he was wholly ignorant ; nor could he possibly , of himself at that instant , conceive that there was an inward immaterial spirit that was vitally united to a gross and material body , that was the principle of all , and was as distinct from the body in it's nature and subsistence , as if it were not united at all to it . he might observe the creatures about him of different sorts , that there were certain notes that each kind had , and all were known and understood among themselves ; but that notwithstanding they were all dumb to him , and he to them ; and what it was that made the difference , he could not understand . when he pleased himself in the contemplation of the heavens above , and that glorious luminary that gave ( as he perceived ) light to all about him ; he could not tell whether it was an intelligent being , and that as it gave light to all , so it was superior to them : and when that set , he knew not but he was to be inclosed in perpetual darkness . when a heavy stupidness began to seize himself , and he was forced to submit to the power of it , he knew not but it was to end that life , which was that day began , and that he was to close his eyes , and conclude his life together . so that though he had what we call reason , and suppose it as his body , in its prime ; yet even that reason must have been his torment for a while ; when it made him inquisitive , but could not give him satisfaction . to prevent which disorder and confusion he would otherwise be in , at the first opening of his eyes and his mind together , as it was necessary that he that was to begin the world , should be created in a full age and strength ; and that he that was alone , should have a present power and faculty of elocution and forming of words for the conversation he was to have with the help designed for him ; so it was requisite that he should have some immediate inspiration , to inform him of what was necessary for him to know as to god , himself , and the world ; and which he could not have known without such inspiration , or the slow and tedious compass of observation ; and so must have waited for satisfaction till time and experience had formed his judgment , and made him a wise philosopher . but this adam was at the first , and so forthwith knew whom it was that he was to own as the author of his being , and of what his body was made , and by what means an intelligent spirit came to be inclosed in a material body ; and could as soon resolve all those perplexing doubts , which otherwise he would have been assaulted with , as he understood at first sight that eve was bone of his bone ; and knew how to give names to the creatures suitable to their natures , gen. . , . but now the reasons for such an inspiration to adam were personal , belonging to him alone ; but after what manner the divine wisdom would have imparted the knowledge of it self to adam's posterity , if he and they had stood and continued in a state of primogenial innocency ; or whether there would , in those circumstances , have been any need of a supernatural inspiration after the revelation made to adam , from whom they might have infallibly received it ; no more concerns us , than it doth to know how mankind would then have been disposed of when they were not to dye , but to have subsisted in the same state , body and soul inseparably united : those are among the secret things which belong unto god ; but things revealed belong unto us . we must therefore alter the scene , and consider mankind in a state of imperfection and depravation ; and there we shall find revelation absolutely necessary as a remedy against a fourfold mischief , which , without it , would unavoidably ensue ; as with respect to the confusion adam was in by reason of guilt ; the danger he was in from his enemy , the subtile and malicious serpent ; the ruin that threatned him from the impotency and disorder he found in his faculties ; which like a dislocation in the limbs , though fit in themselves for action , yet being removed out of their sockets are not capable of discharging their functions . this being the state of fallen man , there was need of a supervenient revelation to recover him , as well as it was the determination of the divine goodness to design it . there was need of this to comfort him under the sense of his apostacy and the guilt he had contracted , to prevent his despair : to fortify him against the power of his insolent and triumphant adversary , and to aid him under his contracted disability , for preventing his discouragement : and to caution him against the sad effects of his depravation , or the falling into a repetition of a new disobedience , for preventing his presumption . for these reasons almighty god so soon interposed in the garden by a new revelation of himself , and instructed him in his gracious design to restore him to favour , and in the method he would observe for that purpose , inwhat he saith to the serpent , gen. . . i will put enmity between thee and the woman , and between thy seed and her seed : it shall bruise thy head , and thou shalt bruise his heel . thus the gospel was preached to adam , who was the first prophet to whom the mystery of salvation was revealed ; to which those places in the new testament seem to refer , luke . . as he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets since the world began ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the beginning , so acts . . this was the case of adam , and the exigence he would have been in , without this immediate and comfortable revelation . and the condition of his posterity would have been worse than his , without a revelation ; had this revelation died with this their progenitor , and not have been transmitted to them . for besides the state of guilt , which must equally have invaded them as it did him , and what conscience in them could no more quietly digest , than in him ; there were several disadvantages they laboured under , which he did not . as if we consider adam in a bare state of nature ( without any supernatural provision ) he had this advantage above his posterity , that being created in a full age , he was free from all prepossessions of sense or education ; and in the first moment of his being , had his reason clear in the fountain of it , like the sun in its meridian glory ; and all his faculties bright , and as ripe at once for observation and reflection , as his body was for action . but his posterity growing up from their infancy among sensible objects , from thence would ( in a meer course of nature ) have received all their information ; and by slow degrees from things visible , must have argued themselves into the belief of things invisible ; and from the effects of a supreme cause , to the supreme cause it self ; which in the apostle's words , acts . . would be to seek the lord , if haply they might feel after him , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as men blundering in the dark ] and find him . in such danger would the fundamental principles of natural religion have been , if there had been no revelation to prevent it : and this was the reason of such a provision by inspired persons , to preserve those principles alive and safe ; of the number of whom abel is accounted , and therefore called a prophet , luke . . and enoch , jude . and noah pet. . . but now as the rays of the sun , the farther they are projected , grow weaker and weaker ; so it was in the derivation of these principles , which lost very much of their primitive lustre ; and notwithstanding the certainty of the evidence , the credibility and authority of those holy patriarchs ; vice , like a deluge , broke in upon the world , so that every imagination of the thoughts of their hearts ( generally speaking ) was only evil continually , gen. . . and if now when there was a revelation , and a revelation seconded by the authority of such eminent persons , the world so soon grew corrupted , what would it not have been , if there had been no such revelation , or no such curators of it ? and this the world was soon sensible of after the flood ; for notwithstanding so late and astonishing an instance of the divine vengeance , yet in their several dispersions , for want of a revelation , they lost the sense of the true and great principles of religion ; some , as the chaldeans , turning it into a vain inquiry into the influences of the heavenly bodies ; others placing their religion in ridiculous and opprobrious superstitions , as the egyptians ; others pleasing themselves in nice disputations , and the vanity of new-discovered deities and religions , as the greeks : and all acting in divine matters , as if they were in inextricable labyrinths , being distracted , and eternally divided about the origine of the world , whether it were eternal , or accidental , or the product of a divine power ; about the origine of evil ; about the government of the world , whether it be by different deities , good or evil ; or whether by none , but be wholly acted by the levity of chance , or the immutable law of destiny and fate . so that in process of time the world was brought into the condition of elymas , acts . , . that once had the advantage and pleasure of sight , but upon the opposition made to st. paul , immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness , that he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand . too close a representation of the condition of mankind in that degenerate state , who because that when they knew god , they glorified him not as god — but became vain in their imaginations ; their foolish heart was darkned , rom. . . of which darkness and confusion in matters of the greatest importance , the world , the commonalty as well as the philosophical part of mankind , was sensible , and of the necessity of a revelation , or somewhat beyond nature , reason and argumentation , to remove these difficulties , to inform them of what they could not otherwise know , and to clear up to them what they did know but imperfectly . of which i shall offer some undeniable instances . . they universally complained of the loss they were at , and of the insufficiency of all their maxims and principles , of all their enquiries and speculations , to give them any tolerable satisfaction ; so that they were in nothing more divided , than about what happiness is , as st. austin from varro has shew'd : and therefore there was somewhat further necessary to satisfy them , or else they must for ever remain unsatisfied . . there was nothing more desired than a revelation , and therefore they were prone to hearken to all pretences to it ; and when they conceived , or were made to believe it was a revelation , they were in nothing more obsequious and pliable . so that to gain authority to his laws , and to keep the people quiet and orderly , numa pompilius did then ( as mahomet of latter years ) pretend he had all by revelation from the nymph egeria . and of such authority was this pretence , that as tully saith , there was nothing so absurd which was not maintained by some of the philosophers ; so i may say , there was nothing so foolish , or wicked , which was not an ingredient in the worship they gave to their deities . insomuch , as the nature of things should be perverted , reason and humanity should be abandoned , and god himself be made worse than those that worshipped him , in compliance with their pretended revelations . what beastiality and lewdness ! what savage and barbarous practices and rites were allowed and required ! the blood of captives , and of their own children , must be a libation ; nay , even suicide was not only honourable , but a religious martyrdome , if the oracle commanded it ; and they chose rather to be unnatural to the highest degree , than not to be obedient to divine revelation . now of what authority must that be , which should over-rule the laws of nature , and so infatuate mankind , that they should not be able to espy the imposture ? and what could thus impose upon them , if they were not sensible of the imperfect state they were in , and the need they stood in of some higher principle and , greater light to direct them , than that of nature ? . there was no nation without a revelation , that is , without some pretence to it , and which they generally vouched for their rites and religious observances ; from whence it was that there was scarcely a people of any note in the more civilized parts of the world that had not their sibyls , such as were accounted to be the mouth of their god ; to be sure none in any part of the known world without an oracle , that they repaired to , and whose injunctions they readily obeyed . the use i make of all this is to show , what a sense mankind had of a revelation , and what all the world has thought expedient , if not necessary , which was the thing to be proved . from what has been said , we may observe , i. what a happiness it is to have a revelation , by which mankind are brought out of darkness into a marvellous light ; and from an endless and fruitless enquiry , who will shew us my good ? are placed in a quiet and full possession of it . if there be no revelation , we are , as it were , with ut god in the world ; and know not whether that divine power be our friend or our enemy ; or whether it shall be exerted to our good or our ruine . if there be no revelation , we are still in our sins , and have no sanctuary against the accusation of our own embittered consciences , the fears of our own guilty minds , or the justice of an incensed deity . if there be no revelation , we have no hope , and can have no comfort in our death , and no assurance of immortality after it . if there be no revelation , we are in a perpetual maze , as if we were at sea without star or compass , and knew not what course to take to gain our harbour . so thoughtful and pensive , so confounded and lost is mankind without this , that if i were to chuse whether i would have no revelation , or a false one , for the quiet of my own mind ( did i believe the false one to be true ) i would rather chuse the content of the latter , than the distraction of the former , and leave it to my own reason to rectify the manifest mistakes in it , rather than have my hovering reason to be my constant affliction under the want of revelation . but blessed be god that there is no cause for such a supposition , and that we have all the reason in the world to believe there is a revelation ; a revelation that is such as all mankind would desire , that touches upon all points necessary to our comfort and entire satisfaction , as to the nature and will of god , the present and future state of mankind , the providence that governs this world , and the rewards of another . a revelation , where all the parts of it agree together , and bear a conformity to the nature of things , to the holiness , justice , and mercy of god , and to the reason of mankind ; where there is a system of the best principles , and a scheme of the best rules and directions ; and which , like the book of nature , the more it 's viewed and consulted , the more do the lively characters of a divine hand and wisdom appear in the composure . a character this is that the book of scripture exactly answers . for what holy precepts ! what heavenly promises ! what useful examples ! what excellent encouragements do the sacred pages abound in ! such as are sufficient to direct us in every point of our duty , to inform us in every necessary truth , to establish our hearts in every condition of life , to enable us to encounter all the difficulties of it with resolution , and to bear all the evil of it with patience . here behold god reconciled to mankind , the trembling sinner pardoned , the weak sustained , the doubtful satisfied , and nothing wanting on god's part to make us happy , if we are not wanting in a fit disposition of mind to receive it . so that if there be any revelation , it is the christian ; if that be not a revelation from god , there is no revelation in the world ; and if that be a revelation , that only is so , and there can be no other . ii. such as the revelation is , such is the obligation ; the authority it receives from god , the obligation lies upon us to obey as well as believe it . the times of ignorance god winked at , and overlook'd ; but now he commandeth all men every where to repent , acts . ▪ he hath commanded them by a revelation , which is of universal concernment , and extends its authority over the world. so that a bad man is no better or safer for a revelation , how perfect soever it be , and how great soever the advantages of it are , than he that is without revelation ; nay , so much the worse , as the latter is a state of unbelief , the former of disobedience ; this errs without his will , but the other with it . and therefore if the heathens , who had only the book of nature to read , and a blundering reason for their guide , were yet so far inexcusable , because that when they knew god , they glorified him not as god , rom. . . how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation ? which at the first was spoken by the lord , and was confirmed by those that heard him ; god also bearing them witness , &c. heb. . , . what remains then , but since the grace of god , in the revelation of the gospel , hath appeared unto all men , that we be thereby taught to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to live soberly , righteously , and godlily in this present world . and then we may comfortably look for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great god , and our saviour jesus christ , who gave himself for us , that he might redeem us from all iniquity , and purifie unto himself a peculiar people , zealous of good works , tit. . . finis . books printed for richard chiswell and thomas cockerill . rvshworth's historical collections : the third part in two volumes : containing the principal matters which happened from the meeting of the parliament , november , . to the end of the year , ● wherein is a particular account of the rise and progress of the civil war to that period . fol. . dr. john conant's sermons , octavo . published by dr. williams . a short discourse concerning the churches authority in matters of faith shewing that the pretenses of the church of rome are weak and precarious in the resolution of it. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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[ ], p. printed for randal taylor ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . advertisement: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. anti-catholicism -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a short discourse concerning the churches authority in matters of faith . shewing that the pretenses of the church of rome are weak and precarious in the resolution of it . licensed , march . . london , printed for randal taylor near stationers-hall . . the preface . finding , that in our modern controversies with the church of rome which are printed , and in discourses with those of that communion , they make their retreat almost upon all accounts to the churches authority ; either as a point that may be most colourably defended , or which lazy and weak heads most readily take up with , i was induced to examin it . safety and certainty are things very valuable , not only because they carry a delightfull correspondency to our minds , but also for the respect they have to the time before us , which in prudence we must provide for ; no condition being so uneasy and disgracefull , as when a man comes to proclaim his own folly by saying , who thought of this ? such as our interest at stake is , such ought our care to be , that we may not be imposed upon by pretences . it argues a degenerous mind , that rests it self upon that which comes next hand . but not to inlarge this preface , i will only say a very few things concerning faith , for which church-authority is pretended as a ground . faith is often in scripture put to signify religion ; and in that sense it implies , not only those things which a christian must know and believe , but also the applying the mind to them in all obedience and humility , not excluding the assistance of grace which subdues the perversness of our wills ; and thus , with a particular propriety , it may be styled the gift of god. but in this following discourse , as sometimes in scripture , faith more especially means , that act or operation of the mind whereby it imbraces those , things which are sufficiently proposed to it . and as truth is more or less apparent , so the mind is more or less firmly united to it . not that the object of our faith has in it any vncertainty , but that our prejudices and passions , our interests and pleasures , by which our wills are warped and made stubborn , hinder the mind from apprehen●ing truth . these false biasses too often ●●nfound our reason●ngs ▪ and misguide our minds : and he●ce it comes to pass , as the scripture observes , that faith in some is weak , in all capable of increase . 't is manifest , the mind may discern truth so , as to be certain of it ; but still a corrupt will may as it were unhinge the judgment , and make its adherence less firm . this was well enough observed by him that lately wrote the history of the life of christ , that faith which springs from the evidence of sense , or from clear demonstration , must needs be of small esteem and reward with god. st. thomas was checked for not believing without it ; and the parable tells us , if moses and the prophets could not convince , neither would they be perswaded though one rose from the dead . now if the churches authority be that which our faith may resolve into ; the assent of the mind would in all points be equally firm and clear ; and so faith would be equal in all , annd capable of improvement in none . plain it is , that the design of religion is to bring men to a right apprehension and belief of god ; and to ingage them to a holy and vertuous life , in conformity to such an idea of that pure and perfect being . he that has not a mind so disposed , will never be influenced by an infallible guide ; and he that has an humble mind , and teachable spirit will need none . however , i am sure , he that will not be satisfied without one , must go farther than rome to find him . but this grows too fast for a preface ; therefore i will only tell you , that i have purposely avoided a multitude of citations , because they have more or less authority as people please ; but i have proceeded by the weights and moments of reason , which are equally valuable to all . a short discourse concerning the churches authority in matters of faith . it is a fundamental maxim , and of unquestionable authority in nature , that truth is always and every where one and the same . so that among the various opinions in the world , but one of them can be right . upon which account , schism , with its ill consequences , is on all sides much lamented , whilest every body thinks he has the truth , and peace , and unity , in pretence at least , much desired . but the misery is , all would have them upon their own terms , and that frustrates their desires . controversies therefore still depending , and the points under debate being of such importance , that the party which affirms them , makes the believing them to be a necessary condition of catholick-communion , and damns them that refuse them ; while the party that denies says , they run a manifest hazard that imbrace them : it cannot be thought unfit for any man to inquire after a method , which may bring these disputes to an issue , or that may keep in peace and quietness the minds and consciences of christians , while pride , interest , or prejudice , shall keep open the breach , or maintain the quarrel . nothing is more natural and congenial to mankind than truth ; and the desire of it is implanted in the hearts of all men ; an impartial search after it therefore , is what all men are bound to . and as salvation is the end in common aimed at by all , so , it highly concerns-every christian to examin the way by which he goes toward that end ; and he ought to inquire the more cautiously and diligently , for that the ways proposed for attaining salvation are many and different : and those that go one way , will hardly allow safety to them that take another . and this at present is the case between the papists and the protestants , which invite men to each others communion , as safer and better for attaining eternal happiness . every man has a soul to be saved ; and what must be done to inherit eternal life , is an enquiry every one in the world ought ▪ and , i hope , most christians do , make for themselves . for since our first parents , by their disobedience , incurred death to themselves , and their posterity , salvation is what by nature we could neither claim nor expect . but , that the devil might not triumph in an absolute conquest over so glorious a part of the creation as mankind , god , of his infinite mercy , was pleased to enter into a second covenant with men , in order to their salvation ; but this upon condition of faith and repentance on our parts , to answer the salvation proposed and offered on his . now this covenant , being an act of meer grace , issuing purely from the good pleasure of god ; it is very plain , mankind can know no more of this covenant , nor of the conditions of it , than god himself has been pleased to reveal and discover . so that all questions and disputes , about our common salvation , must be brought to this one as the standard of all , viz. whether it be the will of god , or rather , whether god has discovered it to be his will. for though the will of god be the fountain of all duty and obligation ▪ yet it cannot be a binding law to any body , till it be made known to him , or sufficient means given for him to know it . that god can make his will known to any man , is too certain to be doubted ; but that his will should be known , before he has discovered it , can never be pretended . and because every man , considered as a creature , and more especially every christian , is bound to obey the will of god ; therefore every man is bound to inform himself of so much as god has made necessary to be known for his salvation . i have added this , to shew that implicit faith is a dangerous bottom for any body to rest upon : for to believe as another believes , unless a man knows what it is he believes , and upon what account , is very absurd , as may be made out anon . so much of the will of god , as may be discovered by the light of nature , is besides my present business ; because there is little difference among us about it . but that part of the will of god , which we are bound to know , and adhere to , as we are christians , by profession distinguished from the rest of mankind , as being in covenant with god , is the subject of this ensuing discourse . now this part of the will of god , is either revealed to the mind of every individual christian , by particular and immediate inspiration from god , or it was made known to some particular select persons , who were to instruct the rest . the first of these ways is not pretended , or allowed , either by protestants or papists ; but the second is , viz. that god did discover his will to some that they might publish it to the rest . and thus far i take it to be agreed betwixt us . before we advance another step , we will lay it down as a ground , that no man knows the ▪ mind of a man , save the spirit of a man that is in him : no man can know the mind of another farther than it is discovered to him . and by consequence , no man can know revelations from god , made to the mind and understanding of another , but by one of these two ways ; in the first place , either god , by inspiration , must assure him that he has made such revelations to the other : as when god sent st. paul at his conversion to damascus to be instructed by ananias , which was an extraordinary case , not fit to be drawn into precedent ; and so neither pretended to , nor to be expected , since stances of it hitherto are so rare . or , in the second place , he , to whom the revelation is made , must bring such testimony and evidence , as may convince men that it is really divine . his bare word for it , will not be a competent proof : nor will the testimony of other men satisfie the minds of reasonable enquirers in this case ; for those others must have some to witness for them too , and so on without end. which plainly evinces , that this is not a basis for faith to rest upon . let us see then what will do , for we cannot forget what our saviour confesses of himself to the jews , viz. a that if he bear witness of himself , his witness is not true ; that is , it is not of force to convince . but then he tells the jews , b they ought to believe him for his works sake ; and accordingly he appealed to his hearers . that the works which he did in his fathers name bore witness of him . * the miracles which he wrought among them were sufficient to prove his authority to be divine , and his doctrin to be from god. nicodemus freely confessed as much , when he owned him a teacher come from god ; because no man could do the miracles which he did ; except god were with him . and as our saviour did demonstrate his divinity by his works ; so , when he sent his apostles to publish his doctrin to the world , he sealed their commission , by giving them a power to work miracles , which might convince their hearers of its truth . and they ( the apostles ) went forth , and preached every where , the lord working with them , and confirming the word with signs following . so that it is not to be doubted , but that the doctrine which the apostles preached was divine ; and the miracles which they wrought , are our assurance that it was so . and hitherto all christians proceed with little or no difference . having thus laid down miracles as a foundation upon which we are in some manner to ensure our faith ; it seems necessary before we proceed , in few words to set down , . what we mean by miracles ; and , . how far this testimony of miracles may extend , so as to authorise our belief . first , by miracles we must understand such works as are not only without the lines of ordinary course , and measure of nature ; for of this kind many things happen , which may be called wonders , but not miracles ; but such as are above the power of nature to effect . but because many such works have in appearance been wrought , for very different purposes ; we must , in the second place , look what judgment must be made of all such things . and certainly some way there is to distinguish ; or else , the minds of men would be involved in most perplexing and inextricable difficulties , by such contradictions , as have been abetted with signs and wonders . let us see then by what rules we must examine and judge miracles themselves , or such doctrines as are advanced upon them . for to receive all without distinction , would come to the same thing as to allow none : because that can never prove any one point , which may be alledged , or colourably pretended , in favour of another ; unless there be some way to appropriate it to one side , as by the rules following it may . whatsoever doctrin is proposed , that is contrary to right reason , or the fundamental laws of nature , cannot be divine , or such as we ought to believe , though never so many signs should be shew'd to confirm it . for right reason is only a judgment made according to that law and standard of justice and truth , which god our creator has stamped upon the minds of men. and the fundamentals of reason issuing from god , as light flows from its fountain the sun , must always remain unchangeably the same ; because he himself , from whom they spring , has no variation . and if the principles of reason were not so fixed , we should be exposed to all manner of illusion ; and should never be able to believe any thing , because we could be certain of nothing . upon this ground god directs the jews to try their prophets ; who if they preached up other gods , were not to be hearkned to , though they worked miracles ; nothing being more absurd , or inconsistent with right reason , than allowing many gods. yet further , god , when he created man , according to the exact laws of eternal justice , implanted in our natures the seeds of it , and the sense of honesty ; insomuch that whatever miracles tend to the damage of mankind , or the corruption of manners , they cannot be from god ; nor can they authorize any doctrin as divine ▪ that is inconsistent with the forementioned standard of justice and reason . and this makes a real distinction , and sensible difference betwixt the miracles wrought by christ , or his apostles , and those by heathen magicians . on the one hand , the miracles always tended to good , and were such as might invite love as well as admiration . on the other hand , they were , for the most part ▪ hurtful to mens persons and estates ; unless it was sometimes that the devils cured the diseases they had caused , but it was still to establish a greater tyranny . when the jews taxed our saviour with casting out devils by beelzebub , the prince of the devils ; he answers to this effect , that the devil was too wise a creature to destroy his own kingdom , by casting out devils ; especially , when sometimes they were made to own themselves to be devils , and to confess christ to be the son of god : but , says he , if i cast out devils by the spirit of god , then the kingdom of god is come unto you . and this was frequent , in the primitive church , that the christians , by a divine power , overruled all the powers of darkness , imployed by the magicians of those times . for as to do works above nature , speaks a power above her ; so , when those works tend to the good of men , by promoting vertue , and establishing true piety , they must reasonably be concluded to be from a divine author . let this then be the first step , or the ground of all ; that whatsoever doctrin , or pretended revelation , destroys justice , or contradicts reason , cannot come from heaven ; and ought not to be believed . in the next place ; when once a law is established as divine , upon a sufficient testimony of miracles , no other revelation that is contrary to it may be allowed , until it be repealed ; and no repeal can be , but from the same authority that enacted it : and therefore the repeal cannot be of force , till the authority upon which it stands makes it self manifest by as great , if not greater , miracles than were wrought at the promulgation . in this point was the prophets miscarriage , that went to cry against the altar in bethel , who suffered himself to be overcome by the pretence of the old prophet , contrary to his own commission . but without pursuing this farther at present , it is manifest , and by all christians acknowledged as such , that the gospel , which our saviour and his apostles published to the world , is neither contradictious to reason , nor destructive of vertue , or good manners , or inconsistent with former revelations ; but that , on the contrary , it proposes the noblest end , viz. eternal life , and directs to the fittest and most agreeable method for attaining it , and therefore must be accounted divine . this being granted , it follows , that no doctrin , or revelation , which is not reconcilable to this gospel , can be from heaven , or have power to bind us . if an angel from heaven preach any other gospel , let him be accursed . gal. . . my present business being not with heathens , but with christians , i will take it for granted , till i see more occasion to prove it , that the apostles and evangelists , who were divinely inspired , committed to writing that gospel which they had received ; that is , * as much of the will of god , as might be necessary for men to know and believe , in order to their salvation . † the late representers of popery seem to allow as much ; when they own the scripture to be the word of god , of the greatest authority upon earth , and capable of leading a man to all truth . it must also be granted , that these scriptures are no otherwise the word of god , than they are rightly understood and interpreted . and here the controversie begins , about the sense of scripture . for the gentlemen of the communion of the church of rome tell us , we must receive the canon of the scripture , and the sense and interpretation of scripture , upon the authority of the church ; for so the matter is stated even by their late writers . and this being of great importance , we will consider it carefully , and proceed with as much clearness , as may be a sufficient , though short , discussion of the point . if we are to receive the canon and sense of the scripture upon the churches authority , then the churches authority is the ground upon which the canon and sense of scripture depends as to us ; and if the canon and sense of scripture depends as to us , upon the church , then the church has authority to ingage and determine our faith in these two questions , . what books are canonical ; and , . what the sense of them must be . for if i know not the sense of them , i know not the will of god ; without which it signifies nothing to have the books , although they had been written with god's own finger . and if the church has authority to declare what books , and what sense of those books , is divine ; then the church has a power to make me believe its declaration . i say , the church must have a power , if it has authority , to make me believe ; because no man can believe more than he can believe , nor help believing what for the time he does believe . if the church has a power to make me believe , it either has it of it self , as it were by nature , or it has it from god : but , of it self , the church can have no such power ; because god only has a dominion over the minds of men , and is therefore to be believed by virtue of his own authority . if therefore the church , as it consists of men , who in their private capacities , ( that is , as they are men may err ) has no authority of it self to determine my faith ; then the authority of the church , if it have any to make me believe , must be supernatural and divine : which , i think , is granted by the author of the papist misrepresented and represented ; when he says , he believes no divine faith ought to be given to any thing but what is of divine revelation . 't is then an established point , that the churches authority is not to be believed as natural , but as supernatural and divine ; and if it be supernatural , it cannot be proved out of natural principles . this the papists seeing very well , lay down infallibility for the ground of the churches authority : so that the churches authority arising from its infallibity , no man can be bound , in matters of faith , to submit to the one , farther than he can be convinced of the other ; and the church can no longer have a power over mens faith than she is infallible . the infallibility then of the church , being the ground of her authority , the papists expect we should resolve our faith into it ; and we will consider how reasonable their expectations are in this case . but , first , let us remember , that all this authority and infallability is challenged for the present church of this age ; or else there is no visible infallible judg , and so the matter comes to nothing : for if they were affixed to the church of any one age , then our faith , when that age is expired , must resolve it self some other way , as we shall see anon . this hint being given , we proceed in search of this infallibility ; which is indeed a safe basis to rest upon , whereever it is found . in the first place therefore , we must enquire what it is , or , what is to be understood by it . infallibility , properly taken , is the knowledge of all things . he that does not know every thing , may be mistaken in some thing ; and he that may be mistaken in any thing , is not infallible . to know all things , is to be omniscient ; and so god alone , who created every thing , by virtue of his own infinity , is absolutely infallible : but , for created beings , their knowledge is confined to such things as the wise creator has placed within their capacities , and so made knowable as it were by nature . therefore in other things which are supernatural , and of which we can know no more than is revealed to us , infallibility means a being preserved from all errour and mistake about them ; and by consequence must it self be a supernatural and divine quality , imparted according to the good will and pleasure of god. and now our business is come to this , to know first , whether any body , or no , has this infallibility . secondly , if any body has it , where he , or they , are to be found ? and thirdly , how others may be assured , that they , who pretend to have it , have it indeed . first , whether any body has this infallibility . i take it for granted , upon the foregoing proofs , that it is a divine supernatural gift ; and being such , that it must issue from the good pleasure of god. now any gift whatsoever , which is arbitrary , and depending upon the will of any one , cannot be pretended to in reason , till he in whose power it is , has made his will known , that the right and possession of it pass over to him that claims it . in like manner , no divine gift , which concerns more than them , who personally pretend to it , can have any weight or force without a divine testimony to ensure its own credit . upon this point the papists argue , that christ , who was not less able or faithfull than moses in his house , would not leave his church destitute of sufficient means for peace and unity 't is granted ; but then , say they , without an infallible guide ( beside the scripture ) there can be neither reason for faith , nor ground for peace among christians . a bold assumption this ! nay farther , 't is said , that christ has promised to teach his church all truth , by special assistance of the holy ghost , to the end of the world. this indeed is to the purpose ; but , that if any thing , it proves more than they wish : for it does as much prove all christians to be infallible as one , or more . for the promise , being indefinite , cannot justly be appropriated to particulars ; and , if it contains perpetual infallibility , let them that can shew , from that promise , that the pastors have more right to it than the people . but suppose now there is infallibility in the church , let us see whereabouts it is lodged , that we may have recourse to it , to end the disputes , which have so long disturbed the peace of christendom . for if it cannot be found , we shall hardly be made to grant that there is any such thing ; or , if it cannot be come at , we shall value it at the rate of all useless things . i ask therefore , where this infallibility is , that has been so much talked of ? why , some have shewed their good will to fix it to the popes of rome : and one would at first think the author , who represents a papist , looked that way ; when he told us , he did not doubt but god assists them ( the popes ) with a particular helping grace , such as was given to all the prophets , when they were sent to preach , that was extraordinary . such as was given to moses , when he was made a god to pharaoh , that was miraculous . sure he forgot the lives of some popes ; or else , some late pope has divided the sea , or turned a river into blood , and so filled him with wonder , that he never thought to make any reflexions . lastly , with such grace as was given to caiaphas , when he prophesied that jesus should dye for that nation : a truth which he utter'd without any good design , as appears by his sentence afterwards ; and this instance indeed might well fit pope greg. . yet , after all this , we are told that it is our choice , whether we will allow the pope to be personally infallible , or no : and if they do not see reason enough to believe it , i am sure i do not ; and so the pope's claim must be dismissed as indefensible . but is a council without him then infallible ? if it be , what becomes of the pope's supremacy ? for whereever infallibility goes , the supremacy , touching matters of faith , must go with it . and they cannot be separated , since , as we shewed above , the one has its whole dependance upon the other . this difficulty has been apprehended ; and so , to secure the pope's supremacy , a council without him has been judged not infallible : and where any council has wanted the pope's confirmation , as we see for matter of fact , it has been thought to want authority to . though for all this , the point of supremacy , of how great importance soever , is not well agreed among them ; for councils have taken upon them to depose the pope , and the french roman catholick divines allow them in it . the only expedient in this case is , what some lay down , that a council assembled by and under the pope , whose authority must confirm their decrees , is infallible . being come to this , as the last effort , we will proceed with a regard due to a tenet of such moment . and here i ask again , whether every bishop and devine , that debates and votes in council , be infallible ? no ; this must not be said , because there have beeen great differences among the divines , and contrary opinions much urged : besides , it would make every bishop as absolute as the pope , to make him infallible , which would quite undo the pretences of the church of rome . but then , if every bishop in council be not infallible , for ought i can see , this infallibility must be given to the pope . and if his approbation be indeed necessary to authorize their decrees , he has e'en most right to it . for if the authentickness of the decrees depends upon the pope , 't is plain , he must have a negative vote to the council ; and , if he has a negative vote to the council , either he must have this infallibility , or there can be none at all of any use . but as to the pope's being infallible , we were told before , it is no article of faith ; and so we are at liberty from them to believe it , or let it alone . though , to say the truth , if i had been told the contrary , the errors which some popes have fallen into , would have hindred me , in despite of any good will , from owning him so . is this infallibility shared among them , so that every one has some ? for infallibility they must have , or their authority is lost : no , this cannot be neither ; for infallibility is a quality that cannot be divided , or enjoyed to the halfs . and if it could , it would not do the business ; for then they would be fallible in part , as well as infallible in part . and so we should be as hard put to it , to find which part their infallibility reaches to , as we are to find that they have any at all . here peradventure , it may be thought , because it has been said heretofore , that though the pope and his council may be fallible , in their arguments and discourses , yet , in the result of them , viz. their definitions which only concern the church , they are infallible . this indeed is to the purpose , if it could be as easily proved as said . but since neither art nor nature does allow an infallible conclusion to issue from fallible means , it must be wholly supernatural and divine . and so we are come , in the third place , to ask , how they came by a power to make the conclusion divine , the means being humane ? or , how they will make it appear to me , or any man else , that they are endued with such a power ? certainly a claim so bold as this , ought to be very well made out . but here , alass ! we are turn'd over to motives of credibility , which are sometimes called the marks of the church ; however , we will see what can be made of them . by motives of credibility , must be meant , such as may work upon my reason , and so incline my mind to believe , or assent to any thing for a truth ; and so i can be induced to believe no farther than the point is made credible to me . well ; but whatever is supernatural can never work upon my reason , as being quite above it , without some divine evidence and testimony ; and that must either be miracles ▪ or scripture . for miracles , they have of late been little pretended to : but from scripture , they tell us , christ has promised to his church a perpetual assistance of his grace ; yea , such a measure of the spirit , as made caiaphas prophesy truth , almost whether he would or no. but how can they pretend scripture in this case ? who have told us , we must receive the sense and interpretation of scripture from the infallible authority of the church : and that not in a few points , but in every doubt ; and never presume upon our own private sentiments , howsoever seemingly grounded on reason and scripture . if we must thus absolutely depend upon the authority of the church for the interpretation of scripture , then the authority of the church must be better known to us than the sense of the scripture : and if it be better known , it cannot be proved by scripture ; for every thing that proves another must it self be more evident . and if the churches authority cannot be proved by scripture , it can never be proved without miracles ; and by consequence can never be believed . but if christians must read and judg of scripture , and believe it in this point , i can see no reason why they may not in every one else that concerns religion ; since there are few points in it that are not much more cleary expressed . here traditions would put in to help out . but , to spoil all we are told , we must receive them too upon the authority of the church ; for it would be as dangerous to trust the world with a liberty of judging traditions , as of judging scripture , and more contests there are and would be about them . and yet , which is an insuperable difficulty , tradition is silent in many points of the romish faith ; nay , in all , whereabout any difference is , i mean , as to the primitive church ; and sure tradition cannot be produced where there is none . if tradition could be produced , still the difficulty returns : that tradition would be more manifest , and therefore above the churches authority . and how acceptable a point that is at rome , mr. white and mr. serjeant could have told at their own cost . but though scripture and tradition are insufficient , perhaps succession may make out this matter ; or else , why are we so often told of it ? and truly , i must needs say , i do not know why we are . for , if they mean a succession of bishops , that can prove nothing to rome , because it is common to other churches , who have as undoubted a succession as they . if they mean a succession of doctrin , from the apostles to us , 't is what we allow ; and , for want of it , refuse those other doctrins they would impose . there is behind a very forcible argument , to prove , that the pope and his council together are not infallible , or , that the papists themselves do not think them so . i instance , in the lateran council , under pope innocent the iii. where it was decreed , that princes may be deposed . he that represents a papist , answers , that this is no article of faith , and that they are not bound to believe it . but if this be not to be believed , it is because the truth of it is not evident enough ; and if it be not evident enough , it must be because the churches proposing or decreeing is not sufficient to make it evident , which is the point i aim at . if he will , as some have , acknowledge the deposing doctrin to be true ; let the world consider what kind of subjects those must be that are in such a communion ; and if he disavows it ; he makes it appear that he does not think their church infallible . nor can i think that church has sufficiently cleared it self from the charge of this doctrin , which some of them call a calumny , till it be as publickly and authoritatively repealed , as it was decreed . nor can i imagine , how that author could tell us , in the fourteenth chapter of his book , that he thought himself obliged not to rely on his own private judgment , but upon the authority of the church , in any doubt ; and yet , in the twentieth chapter of the same book , tells us , in consequence , what the church has peremptorily decreed , is not to be believed . i am sorry , when that decree passed , such a powerfull measure of the spirit , which made caiaphas prophesie , was absent . and since it was so then , i do not see how they can reasonably presume he was not absent in other points too . damnation being so particularly denounced against rebellion , we cannot think that a point so inconsiderable as to be passed by in advertency . it now plainly appears , that this challenge of infallibility is very unaccountable ; and , to shew its absurdity yet more , you shall see , that though we should grant ( as we do not ) that they have infallibility some where , yet , in the resolution of faith , it would be useless . the church at this day is vexed and divided by many heresies , and contrary opinions . how must the truth be cleared , and peace be restored to christendom ? by the churches authority , say the papists . but it has been proved that the churches authority extends no farther than she has infallibility ; and the pope being not infallible alone , and their being no council assembled under him , the present church has no infallibility , and so , by consequence , no authority to determine controversies about faith. peradventure it will be said , the council which sat in the last age defined all points , and so determined our faith. i answer , that what that council defined is one thing ; and its setling faith , and determining controversies , appears by the effect to be another . it will be said , it determined all but what pride and obstinacy still kept on foot . but if controversies still remain , whether from pride or heretical-pravity , or from any other cause whatever , it matters not : why should the scripture be taxed as insufficient to be a rule of faith , for not effecting what their infallibility cannot bring to pass ? sure , there is no reason why it should . well , but for obstinate and prejudiced persons , we will set them aside ; and see what can be done for inquisitive people , such as are willing to be convinced ; what shall these do ? they tell us , they must be guided by the definitions and decrees of the last general council assembled at trent . but how shall they be ascertained that they have a true copy of the acts of that council ? for upon occasion suppositious canons have been alledged by the church of rome . the authority of the present church cannot do it , as you may conclude from that which has already been said ; besides , it is the thing in question . however , suppose from the testimony of the present church witnessing , though not authorising , and by such methods as we receive the works of other writers , we should admit the acts of the council of trent to be truly derived to us ; what shall we do to attain the true sense and meaning of them , without which they can signifie nothing ? and to shew you that this is no captious question , some great men among them have interpreted that councils decrees very differently . and the late representer of a papist has construed them in a sense very wide , from what some eminent doctors long since gave of them . are we not now in a fair way for peace and unity ? after all , if so many difficulties surround the learned , what shall women do , and such as only understand their mother tongue ? i can meet with no answer to this , but that the learned must with honest minds , and just diligence , search out the sense of the churches definitions ; and from them , must those of less judgment and meaner capacities , receive it . but if the matter must rest here , for my life , i cannot see why the like care and pains should not bring a man to the true sense of the scripture , as well as of a council . 't would be an ill reflection upon god's wisdom to say , he ordered his will to be written , but not so intelligible as human writings . and if there be some , who for want of ability in themselves , must rest their faith upon other mens judgments , i do not see why the clergy of the church of england may not as well be relied on , as the priests of the church of rome ; since the world has no reason to think them less learned , or less sincere . the church of england , among all impartial men , has this manifest advantage , that she derives her faith from scripture ; not fancifully interpreted , but expounded to a sense which the text reasonably leads to . and to strengthen her exposition , she takes in the testimony of the church in her four first general councils : not that she rests upon an authority in them , but she takes them as witnesses to shew , that in her interpretation , she is neither singular nor private . thus , in short , a member of the church of england proceeds . he is certain his faith is right and true , because it is founded , as to its object , upon the will of god. he is certain it stands upon the will of god , because it stands upon the word of god. he is certain it is built upon the word of god , because it is built upon the scripture . he is certain the scripture is the word of god , because the prophets , evangelists and apostles , that wrote it , were divinely inspired . and he is made certain that they were divinely inspired , by the divine testimony of miracles which god gave them . nor , lastly , can he doubt , but whatsoever god sets his seal to , is truth ; for he will not , he cannot lye or deceive . if he be asked , how he knows these books to be written by those inspired men , to whom they are attributed ? he answers , for that , he has an universal testimony of friends and enemies through all ages : which is as good an evidence as a matter of fact can bear , or does require ; and , when he reads them , he is farther confirm'd , by finding them so admirably compiled and suited to that character . if he be asked , how he attains the right sense of them ? he answers , by using due attention , and an unprejudiced mind , with such other helps as are fit for that purpose ; he gains as great certainty of the true meaning of scripture , as sense and reason can bear in an ordinary capacity , ( i mean , as far as concerns the articles of faith summ'd into his creed ; ) and is as safe , in this resolution , as was the primitive church , with which he agrees . more than this , he does not apprehend necessary . after this , since the papists have taxed our faith as wavering and uncertain , how unjustly , you may easily discern , i might here make them a requital ; by telling the world , that upon their own principles , they can have no faith at all . for if what faith they have arises from the churches authority , then , if the church has no authority , they can have no faith. but , i have proved before , the church can have no such authority , because it has not infallibility ; and it cannot reasonably pretend to infallibility , because it can make no evidence of it , and without evidence no man can believe . but god forbid i should say , or think , they have no faith : i only offered this , to shew the weakness and insufficiency of the principles they go upon , and what little reason they have to charge us . and now to that question so often asked , by what authority we depart from the faith of the church of rome ? i answer , by an authority which is inseparable from the mind of every man , to refuse to believe any thing for which he has not a reason to him sufcient ; indeed , no man can believe without it . for the mind of man is so disposed , as to truth , that it immediately imbraces it , and closes with it as soon as ever it discerns it : but if the mind discerns no truth in a proposition , it cannot assent to it , whatever profession the man makes . the church of rome has not sufficiently proved the doctrins in dispute betwixt us ; and that , if we had no more , would be authority enough for us to refuse them , and depart from her ; since she will not receive us to communion , but upon conditions which they cannot make out to be reasonable , unless we grant that false supposition of infallible authority . they ask farther , who is to be judg of the controversies and reasonings between us ? i answer , every man must for himself : for as every man must believe , so every man must have a reason why he believes ; and sure every one must be a judg of his own reason whether he be convinced or no. we are told , that then there will be heresies and schisms ; it is true there are so , and , for ought i see , will be so still : but that 's no more than the apostle told the corinthians must be , that those which are approved may be made manifest . the church of rome may appear yet more unequal in her pretences ; for that she advances a doctrin which cannot be believed , even by those who pay the utmost deference to her authority , and that is transubstantiation , which implies several contradictions . some , that own the churches infallible authority , and are resolved to rest upon it , may so overrule their minds as to keep them from considering or thinking upon that doctrin , and so for the time do not as it were disbelieve it ; but , whenever they come to weigh it , their minds cannot imbrace it , because there can be no reason for a contradiction : for sure church authority cannot go on where the power of god ceases . if it be said , it is only a contradiction in appearance , that comes to the same thing ; for 'till it can be made not to seem a contradiction ▪ it must have the same effect upon all mens minds , as upon ours , who know it to be really a gross one . and this makes me sensible , that it is a greater absurdity to believe , as they say , implicitly or indefinitly as the church believes , when a man considers not what that is , than to pray implicitly , or in a general intention with the church , when one knows not what the church prays for . it being absurd to say , a man believes any thing which the mind does not particularly imbrace , or apply it self to ; and the mind cannot be said to imbrace that which it thinks or knows nothing of . here it must not be forgotten , that i am not speaking of the habit , but the acts of faith. nor do the principles i have laid down oblige me to think , every one has alwas a true ground for his faith. i doubt not , but many believe upon inducements , that would , if examined , be found slender and disproportionate : for such it is their good fortune if they believe aright , but if they are in the wrong , they must answer for not taking greater care. but if they have used their utmost care and diligence , and yet continue in the wrong , we may leave them without any desperate apprehension to the mercy of god. most of the points about which we differ with rome have been discussed in particular treatises , and so i will meddle little with them , having from the first designed in chief to consider the grounds of faith. i would here have taken leave , but that i am stayed with a pretence , that the faith which we own , we had from the church of rome . * i will not here inquire into the merits of this pretence , but examin what use they make of it . suppose now we had the scripture , and the creeds from them , what follows ? why , then they would have us receive all the rest of their additional articles too . indeed , if we had received all we believe upon their churches authority it had been a better inference . but they know , we did not receive any articles upon any authority but the reason of them ; and therefore where that ends our faith stops , and we receive no more . they would it seems prescribe ; and , supposing we imbrace some truths which they pretend to have delivered to us , would have us entertain whatever else they offer . this is very strange indeed ! if any one hearing the devils declaring jesus christ to be the son of god , as the gospel tells us they did , should have believed him so ; and † tertullian we know made it a great argument , and appealed to the heathens upon it , when the devils made confession ; must they therefore have believed all the devils said at any time , because they saw reason to believe what they said some times : 't would have been a strange case with religion , unless men had been assured the devil's inclinations to deceive should have always been overruled ; and they , like caiaphas , should have been made to speak truth whether they would or no. in like manner , to have received some truths from the church of rome , can be no reason why we should believe others . thus far i have considered the grounds of faith , and shewed the weakness and insufficiency of those means which the church of rome takes to resolve it by . i pray god , by his grace , so to inlighten the understandings , and dispose the wills of all christians , that they may heartily endeavor the peace and unity of the church , by an humble and impartial enquiry after truth , the only way effectually to bring it about . popery has of late been expounded to a more favourable sense , and represented in a less formidable dress , than it wore heretofore : and so far am i from being angry at it , that i am heartily glad ; hoping it may tend to the scattering those thick mists of prejudice and ignorance that have obscured the truth , and hindred many from discerning it . i only wish they would manifest the sincerity of their representation by a practice answerable to it . they took away the scriptures from some , least in reading they should misinterpret it : and i wish they would take away images , which have been horribly misunderstood ; since they now tell the world they think them but as books to instruct the ignorant , and honorary remembrances to the learned . this would be one reasonable and fair step toward restoring peace , and healing the schism . and since we are told , that no power upon earth can limit , alter , or annul , any precept of divine institution , contrary to the intention of the law-giver , ( a position highly reasonable ) we expect the cup should be given to all of the communion ; seeing that our saviour instituted and gave that as well as the bread. and after his institution , the same night that he was betrayed , i cannot find that he made the least alteration . to say our saviour had no mind that should be done which he appointed , would be very absurd : therefore what he once instituted , must continue in force as his mind still , unless they can shew that he altered it ; and this would be another good step toward our union . they have now reduced their praying to saints departed , to a desire only that the blessed would assist them with their prayers to god , as we desire good men on earth to pray for us ; but this not implying any necessity of praying to them , though for no more than to pray for us , 't is great pity they will not lay down a practice to which our apprehensions will never suffer us to be reconciled . one would think they that aggravate the sin of schism so much , should remove all obstacles that may be a hindrance of union : the order and decency of god's service would be no way disturbed by such abatements . and let them look to it , that divide the church upon points by their own confession not necessary ; and no otherways to be accounted for , but upon the pretended authority of the church . but this is to enter into particulars , which i resolved to decline , having undertaken only to examin that pretence : and so i will wind up all in a short advertisement , that when i dispute against the authority of the church , i do not mean that power which every church , as an incorporate society , must have to cast out of her communion such as walk disorderly ; nor that power therefore which every church must have over her members to establish rules for decency and order , in the circumstantials , the ceremonies of religion : but , i mean , that authority which the church of rome pretends to have over our consciences and faith ; in which case we own no master but one in heaven . cui tri-uni-deo sit honor , laus & gloria , in secula seculorum . amen . finis . advertisement . because the author could not attend the press , to correct the errors of it , he prays the reader to excuse the faults he may find that are literal , and such as are in the pointing ; and read page . line . instances , p. . l. ult . but at the rate of , p. . l. . it is in our choice , p. . l. . supposititious . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e sect. . pag. . printed at oxford . notes for div a -e cor. . . a joh. . . b joh. . ▪ * post . monstra tot perdon●ta , post phlegram impio sparsam cruore , postque defensos deos , nondum liquet de patre ? sen. her. fur. act. . sc. . mark . . deut. . , . origen . cont . cels . lib. . pag. . ed. cant. matt. . . ibid. vers . . euseb . eccl. hist . l. . cap. . & alibi . king. . . * cum sit perfectus scripturarum canon , sibique ad omnia s●tis superque sufficiat , &c. vinc. lirin : com. adv . haer. cap. . † papist misrepr . and repr . cap. . mons . de meaux expos . of the doctr. of the cath. sect. . cap. . of tradition . pap. misrepr . and repr . cap. . pag. . de non apparentibus & non existentibus eadem est ratio . cap. . p. . pap. misrepr . and repr . cap. . pag. . vide not. bever . in conc. nic. en . secund . chron. vrsper . an. dom. . vide quid chron. vrsper . ex brunone card. de greg. . ad an. dom. . pap. misrepr . and repr . cap. . pag . vide histor . haeres . blaclo . pap. misrepr . and repr . cap. . duplici modo munire fidem fidem nostram debemus primo scil . divinae legis authoritate tum deinde eccles . catholicae traditione . vinc. lirin . com. adv . haer. cap. . cor. . . * they that desire an account of our church primitively , let them read the learned origins britanicae . † edatur hic aliquis sub tribunalibus vestris , quem daemone agi constet , jussus à quolibet christiano loqui spiritus ille impurus , tam se daemonem confitebitur de vero quam alibi . deum de falso . apolog. cap. . the characters of divine revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, march . / : being the third of the lecture for the ensuing year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) the characters of divine revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, march . / : being the third of the lecture for the ensuing year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . boyle, robert, - . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : . half-title (p. [ ]) reads: dr. williams's third sermon at mr. boyle's lecture, . "imprimatur" (p. [ ]) dated and signed: march . / . guil. lancaster. errata: p. . duplicate copies appear on reels and . reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- hebrews i, - -- sermons. revelation -- sermons. salvation -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r williams's third sermon at mr. boyle's lecture , . imprimatur , march . / . guil. lancaster . the characters of divine revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , march . / . being the third of the lecture for the ensuing year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . m dc xc v. heb. i. , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son. in these words there is , ( as i have shewed ) i. a description given of revelation , 't is god's speaking , or declaring his will to mankind . ii. the certainty of it ; 't is by way of declaration , god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake , &c. 't is taken for granted , and that it needs no proof . iii. the order observed in delivering this revelation ; it was at sundry times , and in divers manners ; in time past by the prophets , and in the last days by his son. iv. the perfection and conclusion of all ; 't is in the last days by his son. under the first i have shewed , . what is meant by revelation , in contradistinction to natural light. . the possibility of it . . the expedience , usefulness , and necessity of it . under the second i have shewed , . the certainty of it ; or that there has been such a revelation . . i shall now proceed to shew the difference between pretended and true revelation ; or what are the characters by which we may know revelation to be true. in treating upon which , i shall premise , . that the proper subject-matter of revelation , called here god's speaking , being not self-evident , and out of the road of nature , requires some extraneous principles to prove it by . sensible objects lye open to the sense , and need no proof ; for who ever thought it necessary to labour in proving there is a sun in the heavens ; that it rises and sets , and has its stated times and periods of revolution ; which every man that has his eye-sight knows and sees as well as himself ? and there are rational inferences which we make from precedent postulata , that are as evident as the principles from which they are deduced , and which all men alike agree in . but in matters of mere revelation , there is no manner of connection between them and what we know before , and are therefore never to be wrought out , or learned by the book of nature or reason ; but are only to be understood and known , as god is pleased to communicate them . we might search and search eternally , and yet never have found out the mystery of our redemption ; that mystery which not only the prophets enquired and searched diligently , pet. . . but also the angels desire to look or pry into , ver . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and were obliged to wait till the manifold wisdom of god was in its proper time made known to them by the church , eph. . . ( as has been before suggested ) . this then being the subject of revelation , 't is reasonable that this revelation should have some other ways of proof ; that what is thus divine in its discovery , should have a suitable evidence to justify it . . the matter of revelation being thus of divine inspiration and authority , must also be worthy of god , and of great importance , and consequently requires a proof suitable to the nature and importance of it . if the matter in debate be inconsiderable , we are contented with probable arguments , nor are we much concerned which way it is determined : as 't is indifferent whether the sun or the earth be the centre , as long as we receive the benefit of both : or whether our diet nourishes , or physick operates by qualities , or the texture of its parts , as long as we find the happy effects of it : let philosophers and naturalists write volumes , and wrangle eternally about these disputable points , i find not my self concerned , as long as my interest is not affected nor concerned in the quarrel . but when the matter is of no less consequence than my eternal happiness , it requires the most serious thoughts and attention to be satisfied which is the right , and which the wrong ; whether there be a revelation , or which is the true , and which the false ; especially since there are different pretenders to it . . revelation being the declaration of god's will to mankind , as he doth not require us to believe without sufficient evidence , so it doth suppose that there is such evidence , and that there are some marks or signs by which the truth and certainty of such revelation may be known and proved . for otherwise every pretender to revelation would challenge our belief ; and we should not know but that the true revelation might be the false , and the false the true. . there are some things so necessary and inseparably belonging to revelation , that the want of them will utterly overthrow the veracity and authority of it , and yet without further evidence they are not sufficient to prove it : of this kind are self-agreement , a consonancy to the principles of nature , and to the true and certain notions of mankind concerning good and evil. we are certain if a revelation fails in any one or more of these , that it is false , and not of divine inspiration : for the light of nature , and a true and right notion of things , are from god ; and to suppose a revelation to be opposite to these , is to make god contradict himself . thus if we understand any thing , we know god to be infinitely good and holy , worthy of the profoundest and most solemn adoration , because of the perfections of his nature , and his good will and beneficence to mankind . and therefore to sacrifice men and children , and to mingle the most impure and ludicrous practices with the worship paid to him , is rather an offering to be presented to the most beastly and savage daemons , than the holy and merciful creator of all things ; and consequently cannot be of his institution . in this case a contradiction in the nature of things , would be like a contradiction in terms , or a contradiction in the revelation it self . and therefore a revelation that shall evidently contradict them , is a revelation in pretence only , it is not divine . but tho these are thus necessary to revelation , that the want of them is sufficient to detect what is false ; yet however it will not follow , that whereever these are [ that because a sum of doctrine agrees with it self , is consonant to the light of nature , and the right notion we have of things ] that it is therefore of divine revelation . for tho it is seldom but the imposture fails in one or more of these , yet it may have all these characters , and be a doctrine of men , of human contrivance and composure . and therefore there is somewhat farther requisite to the proof of a revelation , somewhat peculiar to it , and that so belongs to it , as not to be common to any thing with it . and that is a point i shall now take into consideration . toward the clearer proof of which i shall distribute it after a threefold manner . . i shall consider the case of such as were themselves inspired , and to whom the revelation was made , and how they could be satisfied of the truth of such a revelation . . the case of those that received the matter revealed immediately from the persons inspired , and how they were to judge of the truth of such a revelation . . the case of those that lived in ages remote from that of the inspired persons , and after that the revelation was compleated , ( as was the case of the jews more especially that lived between the time of malachi , and john the baptist ; and as the case is of all christians since the apostolical times ) and what satisfaction and evidence may there be expected in those circumstances . . the case of those that received the revelation ; and how they themselves could be satisfied about the certainty of such a revelation . the resolution of this point belongs in part to the third general , under which the difference remains to be shewed between a revelation and imagination . but i shall not wholly refer it thither . there seems to be so near an affinity between revelation and imagination ; and imagination is so far operative in many branches of inspiration , that 't is very difficult to set out the bounds exactly , and to say , this is of divine inspiration , and this the effect of fancy . but whatever it may seem to us that have no sensation or experience of such divine representations as the prophets had ; and so 't is no more possible for us to describe it , than 't is for one that never had his sight , to conceive what light and colour is : yet as the blind man may be convinced that there are such things as light , colour , figure , and sight , by what he hears and observes from those that are about him , and that he converses with : so we may be as well assured that there was in prophetical schemes that powerful representation on the part of the divine agent , and that clearness of perception on the part of the person inspired , as would abundantly make good those phrases of vision and speaking , by which it is described in scripture ; and which may well be supposed as much more to advantage , as the power that operated upon them was beyond that of mere imagination . so that those inspired persons after such illumination , might as well question what they heard or saw by the natural organs of sense , as doubt of what was revealed to them by the impressions made upon them through the agency of the divine spirit . to deny this , is to deny that god can so communicate himself to an intelligent creature , that the creature shall certainly know that it proceeds from his immediate suggestion ; which i have before shewed it is unreasonable to question : and indeed what is no more to be questioned or denied because we our selves have no experience of it , than the blind from their birth can reasonably question or deny there is what we call light and colour ; or the deaf , that there are sounds , voices , and words , because they have no notion or idea of these things . now if we think it reasonable that the deaf and the blind should notwithstanding a natural inaptitude and incapacity in themselves , assent to what all mankind besides do unanimously aver , and not call in question the truth or possibility of what is thus affirmed , because of their want of sensation : so it is not fit or reasonable to think this way of revelation never was , and cannot be , because we have not an experimental knowledge of such a manifestation . for almighty god can so clarify the understanding by a beam of light let in from above , as shall be as evident a proof of its divine original , as it is that the light proceeds from the sun the fountain of it ; or as a person himself is sure of the truth of any proposition , which by an argument before unthought of , or unconsider'd , he comes to be fully convinced of , in spight of all former prejudices and opinions . so little truth or reason is there in a bold assertion of a certain author , that revelation is uncertain , and never certain without a sign : and therefore , saith he , abraham , moses , and gideon , asked a sign , over and above revelation . but it is far from being true , that those persons therefore desired a sign , because they conceived the revelation to be uncertain , or that they doubted of the truth of it ; but as a sign was for the greater confirmation of their faith , in some points difficult to be believed , or in some very difficult services , ( for faith , as other graces , is capable of addition and improvement ) . in which cases their asking a sign is no more an evidence of their distrust of god , or a doubting of the truth and certainty of the revelation , than god's confirming his promise by an oath , was an evidence that he thought not his word sufficient without it ; or than abraham could be supposed not obliged to believe upon a promise alone , without that superabundant confirmation of an oath , heb. . . thus it was even in the case of that holy patriarch , to which this author refers ; where before ever he asked a sign , he is said to have so believed in the lord , that it was counted to him for righteousness , gen. . , . his faith was highly commended , and he is for that reason called the father of the faithful . so that revelation may be certain when there is no sign ; and the person was bound to believe it , and was obliged by it , as well where there was no sign , as where there was . i grant when the revelation comes at second hand to a person , and rests on human testimony , on the ability and sincerity of the relater , or person supposed to be inspired , there needs some farther evidence , some sign or signs , that are to be , as it were , the credentials from heaven ; since all men are liars , psal. . . that is , may be deceived , or may deceive ; may either be so weak as to be imposed upon by their own imagination , or the imposture and practices of evil spirits ; or be so wicked , as under the pretence of revelation and inspiration , to impose upon others . in such a case , no man's affirmation or pretence is ordinarily to be heeded , further than as he is able to produce such testimonies as are really as divine as he would have his revelation accounted to be . but when a person is himself the recipient to whom the revelation is imparted , there is no absolute need of a sign or further evidence to ascertain the truth of it to him ; when if god so pleases , the revelation of it self might be made as clear as it could be made by the sign . what need is there of a sign to prove that it is day , when by the light of it we see every thing about us ? or to justify the truth of a self-evident proposition ? these are things in their own nature that need no proof . and when a revelation has an evidence of its own , as truth has , it needs no other light to discover it , no further sign to prove it , for its own sake , and as to the person to whom the revelation is made . a sign therefore makes no alteration in the evidence ; for whether with a sign , or without a sign , the revelation is to be believed ; for else they that had a revelation without a sign , were not obliged to believe , and the revelation without the sign had in effect been no revelation ; since no one is obliged to believe , where there is no reason for it ; and there is no reason for it , where there is no evidence , or that evidence not sufficient . so that if it be asked , how a person shall himself be satisfied concerning the certainty of a revelation made to him , it will receive the same answer with that , how he shall be satisfied concerning the truth of a proposition , or a self-evident proposition ; for the further proof of which god may work a miracle , and give a sign , but the thing is the proof of it self . but however , suppose a person never so well satisfied in what he calls revelation , and that in his own opinion he is as sure of it as of his own being and existence ; yet what is this to others , that are concerned in that revelation , if it be true , and as much bound to believe it , and be directed by it , as if they themselves had been in the place of that inspired person , and received it as he did , immediately from god ? this brings us to the second case . . the case of those that did not themselves receive that revelation immediately from god , but from the person or persons inspired : and then the question is , how these are to judge of the truth of that revelation ? a revelation to another , how evidently and convincingly soever it may be represented to him , is nothing to me , unless i am fully assured that he has had such a revelation : but that i cannot be assured of , unless it be by the like immediate revelation , or by sufficient and uncontroulable testimony . but it would be an unreasonable motion to demand that we be alike inspired , and have the same revelation to confirm his revelation ; for that would be as if one that was born blind should obstinately refuse to believe there is a sun in the firmament , or day , or sight , unless he has the same visive faculty with those that do affirm it . it might then as reasonably be required with thomas , that we see the print of the nails , and put our hand into the side , and have all actually brought home to our senses , or else we will remain infidels , and not believe . this would be to drive all faith out of the world , and so it would be unpracticable . we must then take the case for granted , and that it is as reasonable for us to believe , where there are sufficient motives of credibility , as if we were alike actually inspired as they to whom the revelation was immediately conveyed . and here let us place our selves in those circumstances , as if we were to judge of the truth or falshood of a revelation ; and consider what we our selves would in reason desire for our own satisfaction , when the persons to whom this revelation is made , stand ready to give it . and if i mistake not in judging for others by what i my self would desire , it may be resolved , . into the veracity , sincerity , and credibility of the persons pretending to inspiration . . into the matter or subject of revelation . . into the testimony produced for it . . the credibility of the person ; by which we understand his probity and sincerity ; his capacity , prudence , and understanding , which render him worthy of credit , and are meet and necessary qualifications for a divine missionary . the being a prophet to others , ( as those are to whom a revelation is made , and that are inspired by almighty god ) so as to teach and direct them in the stead , as it were , of god , whose mouth and representatives they are unto the people , is an office of great dignity , and requires somewhat of the divine image as well as authority , to recommend them and their message to others ; and therefore prophets and holy men are in scripture frequently put together , pet. . . matth. . . implying that none were fit to be employed in so sacred an office , that were not persons of known probity , and approved integrity . i grant in the ordinary cases , as there were prophets bred up in the schools or nurseries of learning and morality , there might be such persons as were employed without a strict regard had to these qualifications , as messengers that carried an errand by the order of their superiour ; as kings . . i grant again , that god might and did sometimes upon some occasions , inspire such persons as had none of these qualifications to recommend them ; as he did balaam : but then this was no more than when god opened the mouth of the ass , to rebuke the madness of that prophet ; and who was so over-ruled by the divine power , as against his will to bless those whom he came to curse ; which was so much the more considerable , as it was the testimony of an enemy . but as revelation is a divine communication , and a mark of divine favour , so it doth suppose in the nature of it , that the person so dignified is duly qualified for it ; and which is so requisite in the opinion of mankind , that without it he would rather be accounted an impostor , than a messenger from god , and ordinarily have no more reverence paid to his errand than to his person . and what has been thus said in general , as to the morality and virtue of persons inspired , will hold in some degree as to their prudence and understanding , which is so necessary a qualification , that the divine election of persons for so peculiar a sevice , doth in that way either find or make them fit . it is no wonder that a late author maintains revelation to be uncertain , when he saith that the prophets were not endued with a more perfect understanding than others , but only with a more vivid power of imagination ; and that the wisest of men , such as solomon , and heman , &c. were not prophets , but contrariwise rusticks , and untaught persons , and even despicable women , such as hagar . for if these and such as these were the only persons employed in the messages of heaven to mankind , and whom all the revelation center'd in , there would be no improbable grounds of suspicion that they were mis-led into such an opinion , by the fascination of a working imagination , and so it would be fancy , and not revelation . but what thinks he of moses , a person acquainted with all the learning of the egyptians , and richly accomplished with all endowments requisite to compleat a governor of a numerous people , and to consolidate them into a settled constitution ; and therefore has the preference given him to all the most famous and ancient lawgivers , by plato , pythagoras , diodorus siculus , & c. ? what thinks he of joshua , that was bred up under the best instructor , and that knew the art of government and conduct in peace and war ? what of samuel , that from his youth , and even childhood indeed , commenced a prophet , and was also the judge of the whole nation in unsettled and perilous times , acts . . . . ? what of david , justly called a prophet , acts . . and whose writings shew him to excel in all manner of poetry and sublime composures ? what , lastly , of solomon himself , to whom , it 's said , the lord appeared twice , kings . . in a more eminent manner ; and at other times , kings . . . . . . . . ? and if at other times god ( who is not confin'd in his choice or operations to the capacity of instruments ) was pleased to reveal himself to , and employ such rusticks and illiterate persons as amos , and afterward the apostles , he gave them a mouth and wisdom , luke . . and endued them with such extraordinary gifts of elocution and magnanimity , as made them fit to appear before kings , and to confront the wisest of philosophers , so as that of the apostle was abundantly verified in them , cor. . , &c. that the foolishness of god is wiser than men , and the weakness of god is stronger than men , &c. but it is not only requisite that the persons to whom the revelation is made , and that are employ'd in delivering that revelation to others , be wise and cautious , such as are capable of discerning , and not apt to be imposed upon ; but it is as requisite that they be faithful and sincere , and that will not impose upon others . for otherwise the more knowing they are , the more able are they by plausible insinuations and pretences to deceive . and what greater evidence of this can be desired , than when the persons inspired live by the best rules , as well as give them ? what greater evidence , than when for the sake of publishing , propagating , and confirming the truth of what they teach , they deny themselves of all the pleasures , profits , and honours of this present life ; when though they knew before hand , that bonds and tribulation abide them , yet none of these things move them , neither count they their lives dear unto them ; but with admirable patience , resolution , and constancy , expose themselves to the utmost severities , for the hope of such reward as they propose for their own and the encouragement of others ? what greater testimonies can be given of their sincerity , and if not of the truth , yet of their own belief of it ? who could with such chearfulness invite the greatest dangers , and with such a brave magnanimity despise all the threatnings of the most potent adversaries , and run the gantelope , as it were , through the most formidable persecutions , without the least demur or haesitation , if they themselves were not abundantly and fully convinced of the truth , excellency , and necessity of that doctrine they were thus commission'd to teach ? if these are not sincere , there is no sincerity in the world . so that as far as the credibility of the persons is a proof of a revelation ; and so far as the wisdom , probity , and sincerity of persons , are a proof of their credibility ; we have an evidence to rest upon , and a character to try the truth of a revelation by . the d. proof in this case , desirable and necessary toward a satisfaction , is the subject-matter of it ; i mean that which runs as it were a vein through the whole body of revelation . there are some revelations which concern particular persons or families , as that of the angel to hagar , concerning ishmael and his posterity , which neither made her a prophet , nor were strictly of concernment to the rest of the world . but when we enquire after the matter of revelation , it is principally the main subject of it , such as the law of moses in the old testament , and the gospel in the new. and here it may be reasonably expected , that the revelation should be worthy of god , as it is a revelation from him ; and what should be for the advantage , satisfaction , and happiness of mankind , as it is a revelation to them . it is to be worthy of god , and what would become him to speak , dictate , and do , if he were himself to speak , dictate , and act . in all relations and descriptions there is a certain decorum to be observed , with respect to the nature , condition , and circumstances of the things related and described , which makes up what is called symetry and proportion . but above all a due regard is to be had hereunto , in the ideas and notions we entertain , or the representations we make of god , that they may be agreeable to the dignity and perfections of his nature . and if in all our conceptions of the divine being such a scrupulous care is to be taken , that we judge not amiss of his nature , will , and operations ; we cannot but suppose that in the revelation of himself to mankind , he who best and only knows himself , will give such a representation of those , as is suitable to his majesty and authority ; and may ingenerate in the minds of men such an awe , reverence , and regard , as is due from finite , created , and imperfect beings , to him that is infinite , uncreated , and in all points absolutely perfect . there we may well expect to find the most lively characters of the divine perfections , as far as we are capable of conceiving ; where justice and power are set forth in all their authority , and yet so temper'd with his mercy and kindness , as shall as well raise and quicken the hopes , attract the love , and establish the comfort of good men , as administer matter of just terror to the wicked . there we may suppose the mysteries of the divine counsels unlocked , and the beauties and harmony of the divine providence illustrated and described , as far as god's government of the world , and the condition of mankind in it will permit . there we may expect to find the best principles , rules , and precepts , to inform and direct us in what we are to know and do ; the best arguments and motives for our encouragement , and the best means for the purifying and the perfecting of our natures , and the making us as happy as we are capable ; and which shall as much exceed what we find in the moralists , as revelation is above nature , and the dictates of almighty god are beyond the prescripts of human wisdom . such , in fine , as will lead us to god , make us like to him , and fit us for the enjoyment of him . so that as much as virtue makes for the good , perfection , and happiness of men , so much should revelation make for the practice of virtue by its principles and rules , its precepts and its arguments . lastly , there we may expect to be satisfied about the chief subjects of human enquiry , of what mankind would not only desire , but what is best and most necessary for them to know . and what is there more material , and of greater importance , than to be satisfied about the origine of all things , and how they came at first to be ? what more desirable , than since god is infinitely good , and consequently could produce nothing that is in it self evil , than to know how the nature of mankind came to be corrupted ; and that where there is such a clear sense of the difference between good and evil , such convictions following that sense , such memento's , and such presignifications , such reflections upon it , that there should be such a potent sway , bent and propension to evil , that with all their care it can never be prevented , or totally exterminated ? what more desirable , than to know what nature and reason of it self is insufficient for [ when we can get no further than a video meliora proboque , &c. in the apostle's language , the good that i would , i do not ; but the evil which i would not , that i do ] may be otherwise effected ; that these inclinations may be subdued , and nature brought to a regular state ? what more desirable , than to know how after all , god may be appeased , forgiveness may be obtained , and that heavy load upon human nature , arising from the guilt of a man's mind , may be removed ? lastly , what more desirable , than to know the certainty and condition of a future state , and how we may attain to the happiness of it ? these and the like , used to be the prime questions which all , and especially the most thoughtful and considerate part of mankind sought , but in vain , for satisfaction in . and therefore since revelation is to make up the defects of natural light , and is as well for the satisfaction of mankind , as to be worthy of god , we may reasonably expect that these should be the chief subject of such revelation . and a revelation without this , that should leave mankind in the same circumstances of ignorance and dissatisfaction as they were in before such revelation , is no more to be esteemed , than that course of physick , which after all pretences to infallibility , leaves a person as much under the power of his disease , as before he followed those prescriptions : it is no revelation , and can have no pretence to such a venerable title . but when the subject is great , noble , and sublime , thus worthy of god , and thus beneficial to mankind : when there is an exact concord between the principles of nature and reason , and that all falls in with the true and just notion we have of things . when there is an harmony through the whole , we have good reason to say , this , if any , is the revelation . and as far as these characters belong to revelation , so much reason have we to believe the matter of scripture to be such ; as i shall afterwards shew , when i come to examine the revelation of scripture by these characters . . it would be very desirable toward the confirmation of a revelation , and for the satisfaction of those that are required to believe it , that there be an evidence and testimony as extraordinary , as the matter revealed is , and the authority it rests upon ; such as the one is , such in reason ought the other to be : and that is divine attestation . a divine attestation i account that to be , which exceeds the power , and is out of the road of nature ; for nothing less can change the course , and alter the law of nature , but that which is above nature , and gave law to it ; and it must be somewhat above nature , that can be a sufficient witness to what is supernatural . and this may justly be required to justify the truth of a revelation , and to distinguish it from enthusiasm and imposture . for when the case is such as moses puts it , exod. . , &c. they will not believe me , nor hearken to my voice ; for they will say , the lord hath not appeared unto thee ; there needs somewhat beyond a bare affirmation , to support the credit of the revelation , and the authority of him that pretends to it . and accordingly , he was endued with a power of working miracles , that , saith the text , they may believe that the god of their fathers , abraham , isaac , and jacob , hath appeared to thee . a sort of evidence ( as that implies ) that is very necessary , and what may reasonably be demanded ; and which is a proof of the highest nature , and what as all ordinarily can judge of , being a matter of sense , so where it is true , what we are to be concluded by . the first thing then required and to be considered , is the reality of the thing , that there is such an alteration in the course and state of nature , which our own senses will inform us in . the next thing is , that this alteration cannot proceed from any natural or created cause ; ( for that would be to set nature above it self . ) the last thing is , that this alteration in nature is brought about for such an end , and is solely for the sake of that revelation , and to give testimony to it . where this is , there is the finger of god , and an infallible proof of the truth and certainty of what it is to witness to . now let us lay all this together , and see what it amounts to ; viz. the capacity , ability , and integrity of the persons to whom this revelation is made ; the unanimity and consent of persons remote and distant in time and place ; the usefulness and reasonableness , the excellency , sublimity , and perfection of the doctrine they taught ; the testimony given to them by such operations and productions as exceed the power of created causes , and are wholly from the supreme . where these are concurring , and with one mouth , as it were , giving in their evidence , we may say it is the voice of god , and that it is his revelation which carries upon it the conspicuous stamp of his authority . for god cannot be supposed to bear witness to a falshood , and to set up that as a light to direct men in their enquiry , which is no other than an ignis fatuus , and tends to their unavoidable amusement and deception . but supposing those that were cotemporaries with inspired persons , had all these concurring evidences for their satisfaction , yet what is this to those that live in times distant and remote from them , and have it only by tradition of persons uninspired ; or as contained in certain books said to be wrote by persons inspired ? this brings me to the last point , which is , . the case of those that live in after-ages , when inspiration is not pretended to , and miracles have ceased , and so want those advantages for their satisfaction , which they that were coetaneous with inspired persons , might receive ; and yet being obliged alike to believe as the other , must be supposed to have sufficient authority and proof for what they are to believe . and then the question is , what is that evidence which will be sufficient for them to ground their belief upon ? i answer . that if such have all the evidence that can be in their circumstances , they have what is sufficient , and what is to be presumed necessary . the evidence is sufficient , if it proves there were persons so inspired ; that in confirmation of it they wrought miracles ; and that those persons wrote certain books which contain the records of those revelations and miracles ; and which books are the same that now go under their name . and if they have all the evidence for this that in their circumstances can be reasonably demanded , they have that which is sufficient . and what evidence can be given of matters transacted years ago , but testimony , and what is usually called moral evidence ? a way of proof that is as certain as that we our selves were born , and born of such parents , at such a time ; and that there is any such thing as faith and trust in mankind . . tho these of after-ages want the evidence those cotemporaries of inspired persons had ; yet they have some advantages above them . for they have not only the concurrent evidence of all before them , and the reasons of their judgment that have been downwards from those times , the most considerable part of mankind for wisdom and impartial consideration ; but having lived to see the whole scheme of revelation compleated , and at once plac'd in their view , . they can by that means compare one part with the other , and see how all agrees , and makes up one entire and coherent body . . they can compare the events already pass'd , with the predictions , and see how all came on , and in their season are fulfilled , and how the former is still confirmed by the latter . in all which there appears an admirable contrivance of the divine prescience , in describing those things so long before-hand , and of the divine wisdom and power in carrying on the prophetick line through all the stages of second causes , and an infinite variety of events , to the last moment of its accomplishment ; and to all which a watchful providence of the almighty must constantly attend . . they have seen the wonderful success of the gospel in verification of prophecy ; and notwithstanding all the opposition made to it by the power and interest of the world , back'd with the venom , spite , and malice of inveterate enemies . . they have seen the wonderful preservation of it through all the various scenes of prosperity and adversity ; and how miraculously it has been restored out of the lowest abyss , when seemingly , and as to all outward appearance , beyond recovery . so that we see how in every case there are ways chalked out for our satisfaction in this argument of a divine revelation ; the case of latter ages not excepted . and therefore , that unbelief is now as inexcusable after the times of revelation , as in those times . we are apt to think , and sometimes to plead , that if we had lived in the apostolical age , when the revelation was attended with the irrefragable testimony of many glorious miracles , we should then have been inexcusable , if we had remained incredulous amidst those instances of the divine power , or impenitent under the force of such convincing arguments ; and that the want of these may justly be pleaded for our excuse . but this is much like those jews , matth. . . that said , if we had been in the days of our fathers , we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets ; when yet they were acted by the same spirit . and i may say , those that believe not now under all the motives of credibility , would not have believed , any more than the jews did , that were eye and ear-witnesses of our saviour's miracles and doctrine , and yet remained to the last incredulous . such are incurable ; for if they hear not moses and the prophets , the testimonies yet remaining , neither would they be persuaded , tho christ and the apostles rose from the dead , and the whole process of that testimony given by them , was afresh represented to them . the best man is the best judge ; and the better he is , the more capable he is of judging ; according to that memorable saying of our saviour , john . . if any man will do the will of god , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of god , or whether i speak of my self . wherefore ( to conclude with that of the apostle , james . . ) lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness , and receive with meekness [ and humility ] the ingrafted word , which is able to save your souls . but be ye doers of the word , and not hearers only , deceiving your own selves . finis . errata . sermon i. page . line . read threefold . sermon ii. p. . l. . dele . miracles . p. . l. . for ii. r. . p. . marg. add praepar . l. . c. . p. . l. . after poet r. quoted by porphyry . p. . l. . r. antedeluvian . p. . after line . add . miracles ; of which hereafter . sermon iii. p. . l. . ( or pry ) in a parenthesis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e theol. polit. c. . theol. polit. c. . of the perspicuity of scripture, and rules for interpretation of it a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, mar. , / , being the third of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) of the perspicuity of scripture, and rules for interpretation of it a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, mar. , / , being the third of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill, senr. & junr. ..., london : mdcxcvi [ ] errata: p. . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- acts xvii, - -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion of the perspicuity of scripture , and rules for interpretation of it . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , mar. . / . being the third of the lecture for this present year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . mdcxcvi . acts xvii . , . these were more noble than those in thessalonica , in that they received the word with all readiness of mind , and searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were so . therefore many of them believed . these words are the character of the bereans , to whom st. paul and silas preached the gospel , being drove from thessalonica , a neighbouring city of macedonia , by the fury of the unbelieving jews , that accused them of doing things contrary to the decrees of caesar , and by this means set all that city in an uproar . but how hardly soever they were used there , they found a better treatment from the bereans , of whom st. luke saith , that they were more noble , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more ingenuous , than those in thessalonica , in that they received the word with all readiness of mind , and searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were so , &c. in which words : . we are directed to the rule , by which all points of faith are to be determined ; and that is the scriptures . . there is the capacity all persons are in to judge of that rule ; for the words are spoken indifferently of the jews in berea , the auditory , to whom st. paul preached ; that they searched . . here are the qualifications of such as would judge aright , and they are sincerity and diligence : they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more candid , and they searched the scriptures daily . . there is the way and means which are to be used in the interpretation of the rule ; and that is by comparing the doctrine with scriptures ; there they searched , whether those things were so . . there is the success of this course , therefore many of them believed . i have already treated of the three first of these in the foregoing sermon , and have shewed the scriptures to be the rule of faith ; that it is the privilege of all to repair to that rule for satisfaction ; and that by searching , they may arrive thereby to a knowledge and understanding of that rule . and i shall now proceed to the way of interpretation , and the consideration of the course that is to be taken for the better understanding of the scriptures . in discoursing upon which , . i shall premise some things with reference both to the perspicuity and difficulties of scripture ; for it must be acknowledged that the sacred books have a mixture of both . . i shall lay down such rules , as may be of use for the better interpretation of it . as to the former i premise , . when we speak of the scriptures , we take it for granted that the translation of it , generally speaking , renders the true sense of the original ; that is , the original and translation are to him that understands both , as it were but one book ; and so again to him that understands the translation only , it is the same as if he understood the original . and that this is so , is evident ; because all translations ( though not expositions ) of what language , church , or age soever , do for the most part agree : and if a catena or draught were made of them , as there was of the ancient versions , it would appear so to be , beyond all contradiction . so that if any stranger utterly unacquainted with the christian doctrine , or the translations , but skill'd in those languages , should compare them , he would be able to say that the book was the same , and only differ'd in the language ; as the ancient , viz. the greek , and arabick , and syriack ; or modern , viz. english , french , german , or italian , &c. and let men differ as they will in their particular opinions , let them be jews , as were the translators of the septuagint ; apostates , as was aquila ; marcionites , as theodotion ; ebionites , as symmachus . yet unless in those points in which they industriously corrupt the text to serve a cause , and wilfully and apparently depart from the original , there is a general consent among them in the main . which is a clear proof , . that the scriptures were wrote so as to be understood ; for else how could different translators , unacquainted with the language or writings of each other , so exactly hit upon the same rendition of it ? and indeed it would be too bare fac'd a reflection upon almighty god , by whose direction and inspiration the scripture was wrote ( as i have shewed ) to suppose that such a book thus proceeding from so divine a hand ; and upon so noble a design as the revelation of god's will to man , should labour under such a defect as the compositions of men of common understanding are not guilty of . certainly it is as possible to write so as to be understood , as it is to speak and be understood ; and since writing is but a kind of speech , speech may as well be supposed unintelligible as writing ; and if it were so , both the pleasure and benefit of conversation would be prevented and lost . and what a presumption is it to deny that to god which we give to men ; and that when we grant that men not only can , but do express their thoughts plainly upon occasion by writing , that god either has not that power , or will ; but where he pretends to declare his will to mankind , it should , as god saith to job . . darken counsel by words without knowledge ; and write so as not to be understood , which is to write to no purpose , but only to fill the world with contention , as if what is call'd revelation were not to send peace , but in the letter of it , a sword of strife among mankind ? if we own god for the author , we must say , that the scriptures were wrote that they might be understood . . we may suppose further , that at the time when the scriptures were written , they were intelligible by those that were cotemporaries with the writers , and understood the language they were written in . which was a great advantage they had above all after-ages ; for there is no nation but what has peculiar customs , to which forms of speech often relate ; nor is there any language which hath not idiotisms and phrases of their own ; and therefore where these are not to be understood , or are not observed , the sense is lost or prejudiced , and perplexed , as i shall presently shew . . we may reasonably conclude , that what had no immediate reference to the persons then in being , nor to the ages , and customs , and proprieties then in use , but contained common matters , and was clothed in common forms of speech , was intelligible to others that did not live in those ages , and generally as intelligible as to those that did . such is the decalogue , which may be understood by us in this age as well as those that were at mount sinai at the first delivering of it . . the scriptures being to continue to the world's end , and , generally speaking , being written for the use of all men of all ages and nations , they must consequently be intelligible in the main , and capable of being understood by all persons in all times ; or else they were written in vain : for to what purpose should they be preserved , or should they oblige mankind to read them , if they were not to be understood ? . i may say , that in fact the scriptures are plain in all things that are intended for the use of all , and that are necessary for all to know , in point of faith or practice . such are , ( . ) all the principles of natural religion , such as the being of a god , and his creation of all things ; the worship to be given to him , the government of the world by providence ; the immortality of the soul , and a state of rewards and punishments in another life . these every one may understand as he reads them in scripture , and which no man can read , but he must find out and understand . ( . ) such is the history of providence , that is god's prospering the good and punishing wicked nations ; his preserving a church under all the storms of the most violent persecutions : his carrying on the train of prophecies through all interruptions ; and accomplishing them at the time , and after the manner long before prefixed . these are matters of fact , and what are obvious to all in the reading of them . ( . ) such is matter of pure revelation , and especially that which concerns the redemption of mankind by jesus christ. as to his person , that he was before the worlds , which were made by him : that in the fulness of time , according to the ancient predictions , he became man , and was made flesh : that he wrought miracles in confirmation of his mission from god , and of the doctrine he taught and professed to receive from the father : that he was crucified and died as a sacrifice for the sins of all mankind : that he rose again the third day from the dead , and ascended into heaven : that he sent down the holy spirit , and continues at the right hand of god to be our mediator ; and that we are with respect to that mediation , to offer up all our prayers in his name to the father : and that he is to come at the end of the world to judgment , and shall raise the dead , and summon them all before his tribunal . ( . ) of the like kind are all the proofs and confirmations of the doctrine of our saviour before spoken of under another character ; such are prophecies and miracles . prophecies , which though sometimes obscure in point of phrase , yet there are those that are without difficulty ; as that of josiah and cyrus by name , that of the place of our saviour's birth , the stock and lineage , the tribe and family he should proceed from ; the time he should sufferin &c. and the other attestation by miracles is too evident to be insisted upon . ( . ) of this sort are the terms of salvation ; among those things which are plainly set down in scripture ; we may find whatever relates to faith and manners of life : and in these two are comprehended all that is necessary to salvation . so that whatever is not plainly set down in scripture , or evidently inferr'd from it , is not necessary to salvation . now i am apt to think , that no person that comes unprejudiced , i mean not prepossess'd with contrary principles , or corrupt affections , but must needs own the scripture to be clear in the points before rehearsed , if so be he reads it with an ordinary diligence and care. but will it be said , are there not obscurities allowed to be in scripture , and difficulties which are not to be surmounted ? and what is a clearer proof of this , than the different expositions we meet with , and the different opinions men espouse , and therefore espouse them because they conceive them to be the dictates of holy writ ? . i answer , that is no objection against it ; for then there can be nothing certain , if the calling it in question will render it uncertain . . this indeed has been an argument set up to overthrow the authority of scripture , and some have been so impertinent as to make use of the various constructions and significations of words , to serve this impious cause . and so among other things , one quotes that saying of quintilian , there are innumerable kinds of words of ambiguous and various signification ; so that it seemed to some of the philosophers , that there was no word that doth not signify many things . but if this be a reason why the scripture is obscure , and the sense not attainable , then it is common with that to all books whatsoever , not excepting even that book which the author thought so well of , as to publish for the information of the world. if this were of any force , then it would be to no more purpose to speak than to write ; because the words we use are capable of different senses , as well as what we write . this is a way of arguing that proves too much , and goes too far , and serves no more than an argument that falls short , and comes not up to the case in hand . this would make the divine oracles like those of the devil , to be no other than aenigma's and riddles , as if , in the new coined phrase of the members of the romish church , they were but the various figures of ink upon a book : or served to no other use than white paper , to write what you will upon , and make what sense out of it that a fruitful brain can invent . . though there are obscurities in scripture , it falls upon such points as are not in themselves necessary , and not necessary to all ; and notwithstanding which , a person may be saved though he dye ignorant of them , or of the sence of those scriptures which contain them . for there is no greater sign of their not being necessary , than that they are not what we can understand , or are not plainly to be found in scripture . . though there are obscurities in scripture , yet they are nothing in comparison to the plain texts of it ; and which no more hinder us from understanding the plain , than the spots in the sun prevent us of the light of it . the obscurities are like the various readings , of little consequence , and importance , ( as i have shewed ) and nothing comparable to what remains intire and perspicuous . they are only some things that are hard to be understood . but how many are the plain and intelligible , and especially of things necessary to salvation ? . when , i say , there are obscurities in scripture , and that they fall upon less necessary points , i grant that even those obscure parts are not without their use ; it being here , as in the heavens , where the cloudy stars that scatter a faintish light through the galaxy or milky-way , though not discernible but by a telescope ; yet ( if we may judge of what we do not know of nature , by what we do ) have their use , and by their influences , without doubt , serve a noble design . so though the obscure texts of scripture afford a dim light in comparison , and what we can at present give but a slender account of ; yet we our selves have sometimes perceived , when we have come by searching to understand any of them , that we understood not before , that they prove of very great advantage ; as they serve to confirm the plain , and do give light to those that were otherwise , and were it not for the light given by these , would have remained obscure . and indeed , almighty god has so wisely ordered it , that as there are some works in nature we do understand , and some we do not ; some serve a lesser , and some a greater end : so has he also temper'd the body of scripture together , the difficult with the easy , the obscure with the plain , the less necessary with the greater , that our industry may be excited by our endeavour to understand them ; and our labour be rewarded by the understanding of them : that we may search as the bereans here did , and upon our searching , may , as they , come to believe and understand , or be confirmed in our belief of them . toward the better understanding of which , . i shall direct to some rules that may be of singular use to us in our search and enquiry . . where in the first place it is advisable , that we be very conversant in the sacred text ; and as the bereans , search it daily ; by which means much of the obscurity will wear off ; and the phrase , and style , and way of arguing will be more evident , and the matter of it make not only the stronger impression on our minds , but be clear'd up also insensibly to us . we see how much difficulties are lessened by practice , as it is in learning the alphabet , and the first principles of any language or science ; and when we in the beginning struggled with our selves , and used a kind of force to bend our minds to it , by degrees the difficulties abated , and we became complete masters of the matter that lay before us . so it is in reading the scriptures , where by use we are wonderfully let into the meaning of them . for this reason it was that the prophets were read in the synagogue every sabbath-day , as is implied , act. . . and why also the scriptures were read as well when not understood as when they were ; according to the practice of the eunuch . for to what purpose would it have been for him when alone , without an interpreter , to have read isaias the prophet upon such an obscure argument , if by reading it he might not have been some help to himself , and by degrees have attained to a further understanding of it more or less ? and i dare appeal to any that have taken this course , and have daily read , and read them with the like impartiality as other books , and much more where they have read them with the reverence and attention due to divine oracles , whether they have not found the difficulties lessen upon their hands . and if such as daily read those books with these and the like qualifications , would but account with themselves for all the difficulties assoyl'd and solved this way , without any other assistance , it would be no unpleasant or unprofitable reflection . . although it be of this advantage to read the scriptures in course , as was usual in publick in the synagogues , and in private among persons piously disposed : yet it would add much to the rendring the abstruser parts more easy and intelligible , if they began with the plainest , either for duty or matter , and then proceeded to the more obscure . for this is a reducing things into a strict and natural method ; and is like the beginning with the beginning of a book wrote in that way , and so gradually proceeding as we are led along from point to point , from proposition to proposition , till we come to the end of that , and the difficulties together . the scripture i own is far from being wrote after this humane and artificial method , but in a way extraordinary and divine : and is among other reasons , composed after the manner in which it is , that we may be obliged to use a befitting industry in searching into the meaning of it ; and 't is certainly one part of that industry so to order it , that as there is this difference plainly to be observed in scripture , so we would thus make an advantage of it by beginning with words and things easy to be understood , before we attempt to understand what is in a sphere for the present above our capacity ; for such have need of milk , and not of strong meat , which belongeth to them that are of full age , even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil ; and i will add , between things plain and abstruse , more necessary and less , certain and doubtful . . another rule for the understanding of scripture , is to be well acquainted with the principal design , and the chief subject of it , whether as to faith or practice : for from thence doth arise what is usually called the analogy of faith ; and which will be a standard upon all occasions to have recourse to . for what sense is to things sensible , and reason to things meerly reasonable , that is the analogy of faith to all interpretations , and according to whose arbitration they must stand and fall : of this the apostle gives an instance as to faith , john . , . hereby know ye the spirit of god ; every spirit that confesseth that jesus christ is come in the flesh , is of god. and every spirit that confesseth not that jesus christ is come in the flesh , is not of god. and if there should be any place of scripture that such hereticks would produce in their favour , we may peremptorily conclude , that the meaning they would force upon it , is no more the meaning of that scripture , than that can be the spirit of god , which confesseth not that jesus christ is come in the flesh . . for the better understanding of scripture , it is a proper way to compare scripture with scripture , the old testament with the new , the obscure with the plain . for that which is obscure and difficult in one place , is usually explained and made clear in another , as st. austin , in the book before quoted , observes . toward the more useful application of this rule , it may be convenient to enquire from whence the difficulties and obscurities in scripture do arise ; whether from the sublimity of the matter ; the proprieties of language ; the relation that one thing has to another , as types ; the modes and forms of speech in matters prophetical or figurative ; which we may be helped in by this way of comparison . when i have just before said , that there is no greater sign of the matter 's being unnecessay , than when it is what we cannot understand , or is not plainly to be found in scripture : i mean thereby , not the matter or thing spoken of , but the proposition : for the proposition may be a plain and a very intelligible proposition , when the matter of it is inexplicable , and above our understanding . as the proposition , god is a spirit , is a plain proposition , and as easy to be understood in respect of its sence and meaning , as that a triangle is a figure consisting of three angles ; but the matter is vastly different ; for who can tell what a spirit is , or can give as adequate a definition of it , as he can of a triangle ? and yet the proposition before-recited of god's being a spirit , is as plain to be understood , and as necessary to be believed ; as if it were in its nature plain , and intelligible , and that we as perfectly knew what a spirit is , as we know what a triangle is : and therefore the obscurities arising from such sublimity of the matter , are not to be brought here to account ; for they can never be made plainer to us than they are , till our understandings are elevated and raised up to them . 't is a spirit alone that can tell what a spirit is , and 't is god only knows himself . and though now we have it as plainly revealed that god is a spirit , as that god is ; yet we must be contented neither to have an adequate notion of god , unless we were as god , nor also the like notion of a spirit , till we become spirits our selves . when i say again , that it is a sign of the matter 's being unnecessary , that it is not plainly to be found in scripture ; thereby is meant what is plain to such as search , enquire and compare , and know how to argue from it : and if by search and enquiry , by comparing and arguing , it comes to be plain , i may as well so call it , as if it was in so many words therein expressed . there is a very convincing argument of a future state in the scripture quoted by our saviour , when god saith , i am the god of abraham , &c. from whence our saviour with great strength infers , god is not the god of the dead but of the living ; and so those that he is the god of , are alive . but though the force of the argument is now very evident , by the light our saviour gives to it , yet i believe few would have observed it without that direction , or to be sure without taking that method of comparing scripture with scripture . for it is by that rule , ( . ) we come to understand the idiotisms and proprieties of the language in which the scripture was written ; and without attending to which , we shall fall very much short of attaining to the sence of it . these idiotisms are common , with the hebrew , to all languages , and so are no otherwise to be understood , than by a strict observation of them . as for example , without this key , how irreconcileable would it be to other texts , to have it said , god would have mercy and not sacrifice ; and that our saviour should require his disciples , not to labour for that meat which perisheth ; and that the apostle should forbid women the adorning themselves with the outward adorning of plaiting the hair , and wearing of gold , or of putting on of apparel ? all of which were notwithstanding allow'd , and some requir'd elsewhere . but now if we attend to the genius of the hebrew , and compare one scripture with the other , we shall find , that the jews having no degrees of comparison , were wont to express comparisons by antitheses or negatives ; and then the sence of the negative not , is not so much ; as labour not , that is , not so much for the meat that perisheth , as for that which endureth to everlasting life , &c. and if this be observed , we shall find there is no contradiction , when in one place sacrifices are requir'd , and in another , that god would have mercy and not sacrifice ; when in one place , it is commanded to work with their own hands ; and in another , labour not for the meat that perisheth , &c. ( . ) by this way of comparison we come to understand the figurative phraseology or manner of expression in scripture , and we shall find that such are not to be understood in a proper and literal , but allusive sence . as for instance ; god is in scripture said to have eyes and hands , ears and bowels , which are terms belonging to a natural and human body : and also to laugh , and to be angry , and to repent , which are passions belonging to mankind . and yet we read also , that god is a spirit , and so hath not a body , nor any of the parts belonging to it : and that he is not as man that he should repent ; and neither is nor can be subject to those infirmities and passions which belong to us . and therefore when such bodily or mental affections and properties are imputed in words to him , it is in a figurative and improper sence , and which are spoken of him after the manner of men , and in condescension to our infirmity , who are not able to conceive of him as , and according to what he is in himself . so that it would be a gross piece of folly , for the sake of such figurative expressions ( as theodoret saith of audaeus ) to conceive of god as a corporeal being ; which is to say , he is not a spirit , and so to make the scripture inconsistent with it self . another instance of this kind , is the assertion of our saviour , this is my body ; which being a sacramental as well as figurative phrase of speech , recourse must be had to the like institutions in scripture , and to what has the nearest resemblance to it ; and that is the passover , the jewish sacrament , and , as i may so say , their lord's supper . now when we read in the law , of the lord 's passover , and that they roasted and eat the passover , we easily conceive that by it they meant not the angel's passing over the houses of the children of israel ( which gave occasion to the phrase ) ; but the lamb , which was the memorial and the representation of it . so when in correspondence hereto , we read of our saviour , that at the institution of the lord's supper , he said of the bread , this is my body ; and that he broke the bread , and they eat of it ; we can reasonably no more understand that his natural body was then actually broken , and that they did eat his very body , than we can understand , that when the jews roasted and eat the passover , they roasted and eat the angel that passed over the houses where the blood was sprinkled . and therefore what was improperly and figuratively spoken of the one , was after the same manner spoken of the other , and alike to be understood . indeed such figures and modes of speech , are as soon understood , for the most part , as plain and literal propositions . as when our saviour is called a lamb , a door , a shepherd , a vine , he was no more really such , nor are such phrases any more literally to be understood , than that herod was a fox , and the pharisees vipers , because they were so called by our saviour : and therefore as our saviour's auditors as soon understood him , when he spoke after this figurative , as if in the plainest and literal phrase of it ; so one would think they should , and we may be as certain they did understand our saviour , when he said , this is my body , not of a proper human body , but only by way of representation , according to the nature of the thing , and those places to which this had an immediate reference . ( . ) by this way of comparison we come to understand the typical phrase of scripture ; which of it self is , like the types , obscure . there is a great conformity between the old testament and the new , and especially as to what is the main subject of the mosaical law , the types , ceremonies , and rites of it : and where there is this correspondence and conformity , we must for the understanding of the one , borrow light from the other . and therefore when the like forms of speech are us'd in the new testament , as are in the old , it is to be supposed that we are well acquainted with the old ; or that we must have recourse to that for the understanding of the new : of this the epistle to the hebrews is an instance , the phraseology of which is mostly legal and ritual ; and so we must be acquainted with those rites , or the modes of speaking , to understand it . i shall here content my self with a particular or two of this sort . it is a known case , and very usual in the old testament , in the levitical or prophetical part of it , to call a sin-offering by the name sin , or in the translation of the septuagint , for sin. now this is an elliptical way of expression , very customary in those and other languages ; but what is customary and significant in one , yet if translated into another , oft-times looks absurdly ; and so it is necessary in such a translation to supply it by what was before understood , but not expressed ; as it is in the cases abovesaid . thus for instance , hebr. . . 't is said our saviour christ was once offer'd to bear the sins of many ; and unto them that look for him , shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation . but thus he appear'd the first time , he was then without sin ; and therefore here according to the subject the apostle is discoursing upon , it is to be supplied after this manner , without a sin-offering . so it is , hebr. . . and cor. . . so we have it according to the latter phrase of the septuagint , rom. . . god sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh . for sin , is a phrase rough and abrupt ; but if we add to it by a sacrifice for sin , it is very agreeable and intelligible . now when there is this mystical relation , and the gospel has a respect in its phrase and manner of speaking , to the types and ceremonies of the law , the antitype is to be explained by the type , the new by the old. ( . ) by this way of comparison , we become acquainted with the prophetical way of writing , and may understand what without it would be obscure . i have just before observed the relation that is between the law and the gospel ; and that if we would understand the gospel , it is fit to repair to the law , as to the phrase of it ; and if we would understand the law in its noblest sence , we must repair to the gospel . and from this relation between these two is it , that the prophecies of scripture , especially as to the future state of the church under the gospel , are clothed in the phrase of the mosaical institutions and rites . thus the success of the gospel , and the enlargement of the christian church , is described under such characters . isai. . . . it shall come to pass in the last days , that the mountain of the lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains , and all nations shall flow unto it . isai. . . it shall come to pass from one new-moon to another , and from one sabbath to another , all flesh shall come to worship before me at jerusalem , v. . which , and the like phrases were no more literally to be fulfilled , than that we shall eat bread in the kingdom of heaven . but now as the happiness of the future state is often described by such phrases as belong to this present state , and not to that which they are literally applied to : so the prophecies concerning the state of the church under the gospel , are frequently exemplified under such resemblances and forms of speech as suited the people of the jews , for whose immediate use they were wrote ; and notwithstanding which , neither they nor others could possibly be led into such a mistake , as to think that such should the kingdom of the messias be , as those expressions verbally signified ; when it was evident from the prophecies of scripture , that that legal state was to be abolished , and also that several of the things in the nature of them were unpracticable . as for example ; when it was said , that from one new-moon to another , and from one sabbath to another , that is , monthly and weekly , all nations should come up to worship the lord at jerusalem . and therefore in the explication of such phrases , we must not consider what they exactly signify in their first and original use , but to what purpose they serve and are applied ; and if so we do , we shall lightly as soon understand the new heaven and the new earth , which st. peter speaks of , pet. . . as the heaven and the earth in the first chapter of genesi● : and as well shall we understand babylon and euphrates in the mystical sence of the apocalypse , as we do in the historical books of scripture . but above all , there is nothing doth so lay open the secrets and mysteries of prophecy , as the event ; for by that means , where it is fulfilled , it is as clear as if it had been historically related . and as if we look back from the event to the prediction , we the better understand that prediction , which without the knowledge and observation of the event we could not perhaps have understood : so by comparing what yet remains to be fulfilled , with what has been already fulfilled , we have a useful key for the understanding of the one by the other ; the obscure by the plain , and what we do not know the meaning of , by what we do . thus , for instance , we may understand the prophetical schemes of speech , concerning the destruction of a nation , by comparing one of the testaments with the other ; or what is to be fulfilled with what has been fulfilled . so when in the old testament we find it prophetically threatned of babylon , idumea , egypt , &c. that the stars of heaven , and the constellations thereof shall not give their light — that all the host of heaven shall be dissolved , and fall down as the leaf of a vine — and when that we read in daniel , the little horn cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground , and stamped upon them : we have a key to unlock the mysterious expressions of the same kind in the new testament . as when 't is said ( if it be to be understood of the destruction of judea ) that the sun shall be darkned , and the moon shall not give her light , and the stars shall fall from heaven ; and that a third part of the sun , moon , and stars shall be darkned , &c. it is to be understood after the same manner as the other . now by a reflection upon the state of those nations abovesaid , as well as the nature of the thing , we find all intended in those mystical expressions was , that these nations should be utterly destroyed , and all orders and degrees of men , represented by the sun , moon and stars , should be dissolved : and therefore accordingly are we in the prophetical passages in the new testament , to understand those phrases and forms of speech the like way . it would be endless to prosecute this argument as far as it will bear ; for then i might go through the rules of franciscus ruizius ; but what i have here laid down is sufficient to help and direct us , generally speaking , in the interpretation of such forms of speech , which often render the sense of scripture difficult . but god be thanked , there is little of this in comparison of what is plain and easy , and in which the main of a christian's duty is concerned . this the experience of every one that is at all conversant in those sacred books , will confirm , to the silencing of all cavils , which some men of wit , and others of design , may pretend to the contrary . for i dare confidently say , that no one can plead ignorance against his duty , or that he failed in it , because the sacred pages are not to be understood . what! will such dare to refer their cause to the judgment-day , and be willing to be determined to life or death , to salvation or damnation , as they can make this good ? will they put eternity upon this issue , and insist upon it , that they could not know what they were to believe or do , because the scriptures that should have informed and directed them , were obscure , uncertain , and unintelligible ? if they will not offer this by way of relief or mitigation , then 't is plain that all the cry of obscurities , and difficulties , and uncertainties , are but pitiful shifts , and sorry pretences . there are plain places and books enough and enough , to silence all such presumptuous and arrogant cavillers . if we will believe our own eyes , and credit our own understandings , the scripture is plain in all that is necessary for us to know ; and if we do according to what that teaches , and we may learn from it , we shall never be wanting in all necessary qualifications for that everlasting happiness which is therein revealed , and for the promoting of which it was written . which god grant to us all through jesus christ our lord. amen . finis . errata . page . line . r. he should . p. . l. . del . of life . p. . l. . after them . del . ( . ) . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e john . ● . v. just. mart. dial. cum tryph. & tertul. contr . jud. c. . aug. de doct. christ. l. . philos. scipturae interp. c. . n. . & n. . &c. . serm. fourtb and sixth of the last year . pet. . . act. . , . hebr. . . . p. . mat. . . hos. . . mat. . . joh. . . pet. . . thes. . . haeret. fabul . l. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cor. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lev. . , . isai. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . isai. . . . . ezek. . . dan. . . matt. . . revel . . . gen. . . regulae intelligendi scripturas sacras . par. . a sermon preached at the northampton-shire feast, november , being the first general meeting of such citizens and inhabitants in london, as were born within that county / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached at the northampton-shire feast, november , being the first general meeting of such citizens and inhabitants in london, as were born within that county / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed by j.g. for benjamin alsop ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. errata: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached at the northampton-shire feast , november . . being the first general meeting of such citizens and inhabitants in london , as were born within that county . by john williams , rector of st. mildred's poultry . london : printed by j. g. for benjamin alsop , at the sign of the angel and bible in the poultry . . to my honoured friends mr. john tooley , mr. william foster , mr. mark haughton , mr. john garret , mr. thomas cawcott , mr. charles miller , mr. robert calcot . stewards for the northamptonshire-feast . whatever encouragement there may be for printing sermons in our age ( very fruitful in that kind ) yet there cannot be much expected for such as are occasional , how pertinent and well-received soever in the hearing : for being ordinarily directed to a particular purpose and auditory , the publick is the least concerned in them . and therefore since what you were entertained with ( at the late general meeting of our country-men ) was of that kind , it is the less fit to appear in the world. but since you are pleased to desire it , it 's not easie for me to deny it , and that to you , to whom our country owes so much for the reviving of a useful society out of a charitable design ; and the society owes so much for the prudent managemment of it . to the good order of which , if this sermon did any way contribute ( as you were pleased to think ) or may for the future recommend the duties therein insisted upon to others , i shall neither repent , of first preaching , nor now of publishing it at your request . i am your affectionate country-man and servant . john williams . errata . pag. . l. . read where , p. . l , . del● ( ; ) p. . marg. r. gamb . p. , l. . r. yet it s . a sermon preached at the northamtonshire feast , november . . psalm lxxxvii . . the lord shall count when he writeth up the people , that this man was born there . . there is in all mankind so violent an inclination toward mutual society , that were they set loose from one another , and each man might be supposed to stand alone , they would be so far from a posture of war , and at the first sight contending for superiority and propriety ( as some have vainly conceived ) that they would soon strive to associate , and contrive ways to bring them to each others acquaintance and conversation . but how forcible soever this propension in mankind is , yet it being antecedent to humane choice , and common to bad men as well as good , it hath consequently in it nothing truly glorious and praise-worthy ; nor is any man wise , vertuous , or great , for being thus inclin'd , or for acting as he is thus naturally inclined . natural dispositions are useful and necessary principles of action , by exciting the powers of the soul , and pressing us forward to act , and to act in such a way , and to such an end as may be for their gratification : but the acting according to such inclinations , being a following of nature , and in which all men also are alike ; there must be somewhat else that must distinguish one man from another , the wise from the foolish , the vicious from the vertuous herein , and that is the prescribing such laws and measures to such inclinations ; the directing them to such objects and occasions , as may serve to wise and good purposes , and which we our selves , or others , or both , may be the better for . this is the design of our present meeting , and of reviving that society ( which for about thirty years hath been discontinued ) that we who are of the same nation , and born in the same division of it , may be by this means the more united among our selves , and be rendred more capable of being useful and helpful to others . a design truly generous and honourable , and in a sincere prosecution which , we shall bring honour to our selves ; to our society , to our country , to our church , and to god : and shall all of us be in a capacity of having the text applied in the benefits of it to us ; that the lord shall count when he writeth up the people , that this man was born there . this psalm hath both a literal and mystical sence ; in the latter it respected the state of the church under the gospel ( often prophetically represented under the name of sion ) when all nations should be brought into the communion of it ; and rahab and babylon shall be among them that know god , vers. . in the former or mystical sence it respected the church of the jews , and the prosperous state it should be restored to after the babylonish captivity ; and notwithstanding the desolation it thereby sustained . according to which prophetical scheme , we may suppose the city and temple destroyed and ruin'd , the country wasted and depopulated , the people dispersed and captivated , and the church of god in a seemingly forlorn condition : and yet as deplorable as it was , better things were not to be despaired of , for the country should be again inhabited ; the city and temple rebuilt ; religion and the church restored ; and the nation flourish to the admiration and conviction of their most obstinate enemies . this seems to be the subject of this divine psalm , written on purpose for the support and encouragement of those that did suffer under that sore and intolerable calamity . and it contains , . a confirmation of this , from the relation which the church had to god. . a declaration of its priviledges arising from that relation . . here is a duty infer'd from it , that they should therefore praise god for it , vers . . as well the singers as the players of instruments , both small and great should joyn and say , all my springs are in thee , that is , this peace abroad , this prosperity at home , doth all proceed from god as the fountain of it . . the confirmation is , first , that gods foundation is in the holy mountains , vers . . there was his temple built , the place of his fixed abode . dly . it was the place he above all delighted in , verse . the lord loveth the gates of zion , that is jerusalem , more than all the dwellings of jacob , therefore it s called the city of god , vers. . dly . there were glorious things prophesyed concerning it , and yet to be accomplished , vers . . glorious things are spoken of thee , o city of god. from all which considerations they might be assured that the church of god would revive and flourish . . there is a declaration of the priviledges , or a further description of the prosperous state of things amongst them . st . as to what it should be in the judgement of their enemies themselves . vers. . i will make mention of rahab and babylon to , or rather , among ( as our former translation very well renders it ) them that know , or acknowledg me ; behold philista , and tyre , with ethiopia ; this man was born there : that is , the greatest enemies shall acknowledge it . rahab ( or egypt ) * their first ; and babylon their last enemy . those that were remote , and those that were near ; even philistia and tyre , with ethiopia ( or rather arabia ; for of that is cush to be understood . † ) those that by reason of their neighbourhood had been pricking bryers and grievous thorns to the house of israel : those that ruined them , and those that rejoyced in it , shall know that he is the lord , and they his people , as the prophet ezekiel ( speaking of this very case ) doth represent it . they shall all of them account it ▪ a happy nation , and those an happy people that he does so visibly own ▪ bless , and protect ; and a priviledge to any man that he is born there . this is otherwise , but somewhat more clearly , expres'd in zechary , in those days they shall take hold of all languages of the nations , of the skirt of him that is a jew , saying , we will go with you ; for we have heard that god is with you . dly . there is the state of the church described as it really should be , vers . . of zion it shall be said , this and that man was born in her ; and the highest himself shall establish her , when as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may signify a man of eminency and worth , in opposition to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the former verse ; so this and that signifies a multitude : thus our former translation reads it , many are born in her . and then the meaning of it is , that jerusalem and the nation shall abound with inhabitants , with men of renown and eminency , that shall be honourable for wisdom , virtue , and piety . dly . there is a further declaration of god's favour towards them , that such should be honoured by him , as in the text , the lord shall count when he writeth up the people , that this man was born there ; that is , such shall be marked out by god , be esteemed by him , and be under his special care and protection . for thus do we find the phrase used , ezek. . . where its threatned to the prophets that divine lies , that they shall not be written in the writing of the house of israel , neither shall they enter into the land. from the words thus explained , i shall take occasion to ▪ consider , . what are the priviledges of a place or country that render it honourable , and transfer an honour upon persons there born . . what is the right persons owe , and the honour they should give to their country . . how far this may concern us that are met together upon this occasion and solemnity . . as to the first , the things that do render a country or place honourable and valuable , may be either , natural , acquired , or providential . st . amongst the natural excellencies of a place , that which first offers it self to our consideration , is its scituation , by means of which it becomes delightful , fruitful , and secure . for an instance in this , we need look no further than the subject of this psalm , viz. the land of canaan , which was remarkable for the aforesaid advantages , and is therefore deservedly called the pleasant land , dan. . . pleasant it was in regard of its scituation , being in the middle of the then known world , and in the fourth climate of the seven ( which ptolomy divided the earth into , as it that time was ) and so was as temperate in its air , as convenient to serve the ends of divine providence , which was from thence to disperse the knowledg of himself among all nations . pleasant it was in respect of its fertility , of which we have a full and excellent description , deut. . , &c. and an effectual demonstration of the truth of what is there said of it , a land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness , thou shalt not lack any thing in it , when though it extended not much above two hundred miles in length , and eighty in breadth , could maintain its numerous inhabitants , of the vastness of which , we may conceive by the computation of fighting men alone , made in the time of david , which amounted to a million and three hundred thousand . and as canaan was thus pleasant , so it was also secure , being compassed with mountains ; to the north were libanus , and antilibanus ; to the east , gilead and hermon ; ( psalm . . ) and the mountains of moab ; to the south , the mountains of judah ; to the west , those of ephraim and carmel ; and where it was without , it had the great sea. and what canaan was to the then known world , that was jerusalem to canaan , being planted near the middle of the land ; therefore it s said to be in the midst of the nations and countries round about her , ezek. . . and to be beautiful for scituation , psal. . . it was also secure , as consisting of several hills within , and compassed with them round about , as we are told , psal. . . only toward the north , from whence it s said to be on the sides of the north , psal. . , and isa. . . as it had a freer prospect to that quarter , and not because sion was on the north side of jerusalem , as some learned men have thought . . there are things acquired and accidental , which render a countrey or place valuable ; that belong not to it as such a particular place , but are owing either to the industry and providence , the valour and conduct of the inhabitants , or to some unseen and indisernible causes . of this kind are dominion , wealth , and populousness ; for all which the land of israel was famous in the time of solomon , who reigned over all kingdoms from the river euphrates unto the border of egypt ; and had so many subjects , that they were innumerable , and in that respect as the sand which by the sea in multitude ; and these subjects so enriched , that silver in those days was nothing accounted of . of this sort is learning and knowledge , for which egyt first ( said to be the antient nursery and mother of sciences ) and greece afterwards were highly honoured and commended . but that which above all makes a country truly honourable , is the vertue and piety of the people , and the care taken for the encouragement and preservation of it by good laws , and a vigorous execution of them . the natural advantages of a country are common to the foolish as well as the wise , the slothful as the industrious : and of these that are acquired , some ( as dominion and wealth ) are obtained by boldness and power , fraud and injustice , or stumbled upon by chance and casualty . but the vertues of a nation are truly their own , and make it great and noble wherever it is , and prosperous and successful , for the most part , in whatever it undertakes . it was an honour to be a roman , when that people were ( as the historians report ) vertuous , not more by laws than inclination : when in the first place they were devout in their religion , just unto their enemies , and friendly to all ; when whatever wars and cententions they had abroad , there was no other amongst themselves , than who should exceed in things great and generous . nay , it was more an honour to be then a denizon of rome , and a native of that country , than when in future times it was made an honour by a law , and by reason of its priviledges was a freedom worth the obtaining with a great sum. the franchises and immunities may be purchased , or descend upon a person ( as it was with st. paul ) by birth : but vertue grows upon another stock , and is the proper fruit of their own care , and hath so great an influence upon , and doth so discernibly conduce to the welfare of mankind , and the good of societies , that it makes a way for it self , and is more victorious than the arms of a nation ; and whom these do leave unvanquished , that doth often overcome . so true is that of the wise man , rightousness exalteth a nation , and doth beget reverence , honour , and i may add , safety , wherever it is . but on the other side , be a nation never so much exalted by dominion and power , opulency and wealth , and all other advantages , whether natural or acquired , and wanting in that moral accomplishment , that it be faithless and perfidious , insolent and proud , luxurious and effeminate , these vices prove like weeds in a fertile soyl , that overtop the useful plants that are therein , which make it rather a wilderness than an eden , and the people to be like the cushites , who , in scripture , are said to be strong and numerous , but withal very base and contemptible . for as righteousness exalteth a nation , so sin is a reproach to any people ; and as they degenerate in their manners , so they do decline in their esteem , and consequently in their power and dominion . for reputation is the strength of a nation ; and the reputatation of it depending upon its vertue ; the one must consequently decline with the other , and make them in time as little feared as they are reverenc'd by their neighbors ; and then all the policy and power of the world cannot secure them , who having cast away their best defence , by their vices , make themselves first the triumph of their enemies scorn , and then of their arms. so that every nation is secure according to its reputation , and is in reputation according to its vertue : let it be lost to vertue , it s lost to its reputation ; let it be lost to its reputation , it is lost to its peace and security also , and hath laid its self open to its enemies ; or in want of such , doth by degrees dissolve of it self , and run into confusion . but then much more is this true , if we consider the world with respect to divine providence , which doth crown the vertues and piety of a people with success and honour ( for which reason amongst others , st. austin saith , the ancient romans were made great and victorious ) but doth render vice and irreligion miserable and infamous , and sooner or later doth publickly dethrone it by its all-powerful and irresistible hand ; verifying therein what god once declared ; them that honour me i will honour ; and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . . there are things providential that do ennoble a place or country , of this we have an instance before us in the land of judea , which god did choose out of the world to be the place of his special residence , and in the people whom he chose , ( exercising over them a theocratical and divine government ) to be his inheritance ; from whence that was called an holy land , they a holy people , and their cities , holy cities : by which means they were invested with several priviledges . as first they had his special assistance and protection , by which , they drove out the old inhabitants ( as long as they continued stedfast in their religion ) without any considerable opposition ; and were secured in the possession of it , notwithstanding the ill-will , and power , the subtle practices and attempts of their enemies ; who were either over-ruled , or defeated by the special interposal of divine providence . hence god is said to do all for them , to strengthen the bars of their gates , and make peace in their borders , to break the arrows of the bow , the shield , the sword , and the battel : and all is said to be issued from the place of his habitation . dly . they had thereby a greater priviledge , which was the knowledge of the true god , and what was acceptable to him . to them pertained the adoption , and the glory ( the shechina , or divine presence ) the covenants , the giving of the law , and the service of god and the promises . and when such was the city , such the country , such the people , such their relation to god , and such their priviledges by vertue of it ; others must needs say , happy is that people whose god is the lord , and think it no little honour to be one of that number ; and him him happy of whom it could be said , this man was born there . but this priviledge did not die with that state of things : for what israel was then to the rest of the world , that is now the church of god , to those that are out of it ; that is christianity to judaism , turcisme , heathenisme : and all the favours and priviledges belonging to that people heretofore are transfer'd upon christians , who are as the apostle saith , ( applying their phrases to this purpose ) a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people . so that it is now as much a priviledge to say with respect to the church of god , or a nation in which that is placed , and the gospel received , this man was born there , as it was in those times , with respect to that nation or city , where god was more especially resident . and truly what a church is to no church , that , in proportion , is a true and found church to a false church , and a church dangerously corrupted ; and so much is it the honour and the priviledge of a person born there , where the word of god is truly taught , the sacraments rightly and purely administred , and the worship solemnly performed , above what it is to be born and educated in a church , where idolatry and superstition is embodied into the worship , and false principles are received into the doctrine of it . from whence we may easily observe what an advantage we do enjoy that are born in the church of god , beyond those that know not the truth ; and what it is that we do enjoy , in the communion of our church , which they do want that are born and bred up in the bosom and communion of the corrupted and degenerate church of rome . this is our honour and priviledge ; and this doth lay no small obligation upon us : and what that is , i come in the next place to enquire . . what is the right persons owe , and what honour they should give to the land or place of their nativity . when some of the wisest and best amongst the heathen , such as socrates , used to call themselves citizens of the world , as if they own'd no relation to a particular place , it was only to blame that selfishness too common amongst men , by which they did not care what wrong they did to others , provided they and theirs were secured ; but it was not to condemn that affection which mankind generally hath to the particular place of their nativity and abode . this i think is well represented by that great philosopher as well as emperor , who saith , my city and country , as antoninus , is rome ; as a man , its the world. for their relation to the world did no more lessen a due affection and care to their own particular country or birth-place , than he could be supposed to cast of all regard to antoninus , because he considered himself as a man. or however natural inclinations do not stand or fall by the maxims and reasonings of philosophers ; but as long as men be men , and that there is such a thing as a relation betwixt men and men , or men and places , there will consequently be affections in them sutable to those relations in which they are . from hence it is , that parents and children are naturally prone interchangeably to love each other ; and , to go no further , that mankind hath a respect and affection for the place in which they were born ; and for the people , more or less , amongst whom they received their life and education . from whence this proceeds , whether from propriety , or the possession it took of their first thoughts , and earliest affections ; or from use which renders things connatural to us , is not so easie to resolve , as it is to observe the potency of this affection : when , whatever the country may be , subject never so much to the extreams of heat and cold ( if there be in it things necessary for subsistence ) men generally rather chuse the quiet enjoyment of their own , than to have their portion in another that is in it self far more excellent and delightful : so the poet observed of old . quid melius roma ? scythico quid frigore pejus ? huc tamen ex illa barbarus urbe fugit . what more delightful than rome ? what less than scythia ? and yet the barbarous native forsakes that for this . let it be the country of the samoiedes , where for six months of the year they have one continued night ▪ and are shut up in their pitiful huts half under ground , yet the inhabitants prefer their manner of life before the delight of a better climate , as a modern traveller relates . * so that there is no country so bad , which those that are there born do not generally chuse : and there is no country so bad , but has a right and duty owing to it from such as were born there ; therein verifying that of seneca , nemo patriam , quia magna est , amat , sed quia sua . no man loves his country because its great or noble , but because it is his : a duty so necessary and obliging , that it hath been thought nothing could be too dear to part with , nothing too difficult to be undertaken for its wellfare and security ; that parents and children , life and estate were to be sacrificed in so noble a cause . o fortunata mors , quae naturae debita , pro patria est potissimum reddita . o happy is that death , which when due to nature , is laid down for the country ; before the other calls for it , said the orator . but it is not my intent , as well as it is not so much to my purpose , to consider in general what is due to one nation in opposition to another ; to the land of our nativity in opposition to what is not , ( since we are here assembled only as a small part of the whole ) as what is due to any place which we have a relation to by birth and education , whether it be a nation ; or country , or city , or whatever bounds greater or less it may be circumscribed in . to all of which there is an honour due , and which every man doth give , that discharges the duty belonging to his place and station with faithfulness and sincerity ; and like a good man and a christian , denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , doth live soberly , righteously , and godlily in this present world . for as i have before shewed , that virtue and piety are the honour of a nation , so he that would do honour to his country must live vertuously and piously . other things we may receive from that , as birth , a temperament of body , some dispositions of mind , priviledges and immunities , respect derived from ancestors . these are advantages we receive from that , and so cannot honour that by them ; but piety and vertue are our own ; and when we are eminent in these , the honour of it redounds to our country and all that we are related to . for the former we are beholding to our country ; but for the latter our country is beholding to us . and this is it that we should most of all aspire after , that we may rather chuse to do honour to our country , than depend upon any honour or advantage from it ; being like themistocles , that when told by a native of the island seriphus ( a place so craggy and desolate , that malefactors were banished thither ) that he had his glory from his country , and not from himself , replied , if i had been a seriphian , i had been noble and great ; but if thou hadst been an athenian , thou wouldst have been base and dishonourable . it is not in our power to chuse where we will be born , or from what stock to derive our selves , this we owe to other causes ; but it is , under god , in our power to chuse whether we will be good and vertuous , and do things worthy of a man and a christian ; and by being so we do truly honour our selves and our country . to be an hebrew of the hebrews , a roman , and a schollar of the famous gamaliel , were privileges st. paul owed to his parentage , his birth-place , and his education ; but to live in all good conscience before god , to do like an apostle of christ , and to labour in that office more abundantly than all , was an honour that he brought to tarsus , to jerusalem , and was therein more an honour to them than they could be to him . men may be honourable by what they receive from their country , but they are more honourable for things that are honourable all the world over , and will make them honourable where-ever they are : and it s by the same that they do honour their country , by the things , i say , they receive not , more than by what they do receive from it . and therefore he that would study so to do ( as every one should ) let him begin here , and first of all to learn to be pious and virtuous as to himself , good and useful to others , and in all , to have a conscience void of offence toward god and toward men , and he will deserve well of his country , and in the highest sence be an honour to it . but on the other side , if these be neglected , and virtue and piety be the last things taken into consideration , the more honourable their country is , the more blame-worthy are they that do thus detract from the honour of it , and as much as in them lies , rob it of that it hath before acquired . greece was famous for a country , crete for an island , athens for a city and a place of learning : but what a disparagement was it to have it said of the people of the first , that they were false and perfidious ? of the second , that the athenians had excellent laws , but perverse dispositions ? and of the last , that the cretians were lyers , & c ? let a country be like canaan , the glory of all lands , and a land flowing with milk and honey ; yet if the inhabitants , like the canaanites , are vicious , and have their manners corrupted , their land will spue them out , as the phrase is , and they deserve to be blotted out of their records and memorials , and never to be mentioned , but as a certain family is in our nation , with a caveat by the historian , nomen vetustae familiae , verum jam damnatae memoriae . such as do break the laws of god and men , by a vicious life , and infamous acts , do disgrace their nature and their country , themselves and their relations , do disparage the stock and the place they came from : and let them speak never so much in behalf of it , do in effect with coriolanus turn their arms upon their country ; and instead of being friends to it , are the worst of enemies , since they joyn ingratitude to their other faults , and take life from that ( for such is honour to a country ) which gave it to them . what is it then , for a person to plead the benefit of his country , and launch out in commendations of that , or himself from his relation to it , if in the mean time , he doth take from himself that honour which it doth give ; and doth more disgrace that by his ill qualities and bad actions , than that can honour him by all the advantages it may otherwise justly claim , or he may claim from it . since of the two , it 's far more honourable and glorious to be a scythian and barbarian by country , and a wise philosopher as anacharsis , than to be born in athens and be a stupid meltides ; better be a galilean , and a disciple of the holy jesus , than to be born in an imperial city with julian and be an apostate from christianity ; better be found in the roll of those , that from an obscure place and condition , from a town that was little among the thousands of judah , and from the sheepfold , with david , have advanced themselves by their prudence and diligence , their vertue and piety , than of those that amidst the advantages of birth , country and education , have degenerated from all , and become like the sons of the great scipio and fabius , the one of which was not suffered to wear in a ring the effigies , nor the other to inherit the goods of his father . the latter are a disgrace to their country , and such as their friends , their family , their birth-place are ashamed to own : but the former do ennoble their country and condition ; and what is wanting in those to a person , he makes up in himself to them , and like the spiritual seed of abraham , though raised out of the stones , are far to be prefer'd before those that proceeded from his loins . such a man is in truth , what a jew or a roman once was by priviledge , free and great , wherever he is ; and whatever his country is , how despicable and base soever , though it be like istria , which the venetians were formerly forced to hire persons to live in , he will bring an honour to it , and it shall be said , with reputation to that as well as himself , this man was born there . indeed , as whatever our country is , it should be as our parents , a-like dear to us , so we should be as children to their parents , a-like dutiful to that ; that so if that be dishonourable , we may be an honour to that ; if that be honourable and valuable we may not be a dishonour to that . and if there be an obligation upon persons to virtue and piety , whatever their country is ; for the reasons abovesaid , then surely its a right and duty we owe to our nation , and the land of our nativity , as we are englishmen : a land that is great in every thing but extent , and what it wants in that , has in its fertility and security ( the sea being a rampart to it ; as the scripture saith of no. ) a land that is greater in its constitution and government , which , by its excellent laws and administration , so effectually provides for the security , quiet and comfort of the people , that of no nation under heaven may it be better said , that every man may sit under his vine and under his figtree . a land that is still greater for the church of god that is in it ; a church , that for purity of doctrine , solemnity of worship , and all advantages for piety , may compare with , if it doth not exceed any church upon the face of the earth . so that if plenty and security , wholesom laws and a wise constitution , and the blessed effects of good government in the state : if helps to knowledge , and means and encouragements to piety in the church , can render a country valuable , or ● nation happy ; ours is the country , and we are the nation . if the being born in such a country , educated in such a church , dwelling in such a nation , can lay an obligation upon people and persons , we are the people and persons that are so obliged . what may not then god almighty , the giver of every good gift , expect from us by way of thankfulness and acknowledgment for such temporal and spiritual mercies ? what may not the world expect from us by way of improvement ? what may not the church of god expect from us in a way of exemplary piety and holiness ? what may not our governours expect from us in our peaceableness and loyalty ? what may we not expect from one another in justice , friendship , and charity ? what may we not expect from our selves , and what will not our own consciences require of us in duty to god and to others ? and what an account for all must we expect to give another day , when god shall judge the world in righteousness ? if god hath not dealt so with any nation , how inexcusable are we , if we are , after all , a nation void of counsel , and a people of no vnderstanding ? and how may we expect to find that verified in the conclusion , therefore he that made , and thus dignifyed them , will not have mercy on them ; and he that formed them will shew them no favour . so much is priviledge and duty interwoven , and so much the more are we obliged to the latter , as we do receive of the former . but though these are the blessings we enjoy in common with the rest of our nation , yet there are some things in that part of it , which we owe our birth and much of our education to , that all of the same nation enjoy not in common with us . a county that hath in it things so remarkable , as would alone be sufficient to have entertained you , and spent the time upon : but it is not fit for this place , nor will it answer the honest and good end for which we are now assembled , to make the place of our birth , the subject of a panegyrick . and therefore i shall only select from the rest , what the psalm may put us in mind of , and may serve to enforce our duty upon us . . we may consider the situation of northampton-shire , which is to the rest of england , as jerusalem was to canaan , and canaan to the rest of the then known world , placed in the middle and heart of it ; and to such an advantage , that from one hill in it there spring three rivers , viz. cherwel , leam , avon , that discharge themselves into three several seas , as the historians do observe . from which situation it hath the fittest opportunity of communication with the other parts of the nation , and fetching from thence what may be for its use and benefit . but , . however , this is hath the less need of from the fertility of the soyl , and the plenty of all things necessary for life that it is stored with . so that as it is with the rivers of it that arise all within its own bowels ( in which also it resembles canaan , properly so called ) communicating their streams to many countrys but receiving from none ; so it is with the country itself , that from its store doth send forth to others , but hath no dependence upon any , nor doth ordinarily stand in need to crave help from them . . we may add to this the variety that is in it ( therein like to canaan ) which doth not a little contribute to the delightsomness of it , being partly for profit , partly for pleasure ; and yet that variety so intermixed , that the places made more especially for delight have their profit , and those that yield the greatest profit , are not without their delights also : the consideration of all which will justify the character given of it by a modern historian ( who else from his relation to it , might be thought too favourable ) that northampton-shire is as an apple without a core to be cut , or rind to pare away . . it s no little commendation to it , if we consider that it s not only very populous , but the people generally are very industrious , and whose employment being for the most part in tillage and pasturage , bring them within the estimate of aristotle , who saith with respect to those two ways of living , that they are the happiest people that have from their labour as much as is sufficient for life , and yet they cannot be idle . but then there is not only , in the first sence of the phrase , this and that man for multitude ; but also , in the latter sence of it , this and that man for eminency in quality and condition . if we view the country within , it abounds so in gentry and nobility , that the great geographer of our nation doth give it this character , nobilium villis excultissima ; or as the historian fore-recited doth express it , no country hath more noblemen , no noblemen fairer habitations . consider we it again , abroad we shall find it , not only to send forth its colonies ( of which this assembly is an instance ) but also there have been many amongst them ( as might easily be shewed ) that have proved eminent in their station and employment , both in church and state. let me lastly observe to you the genius of the people in the numerous foundations , for piety and charity . in the former of which , there is no county in england , that in my observation by reading or otherwise , doth exceed , or so much as equal it ; and that in the circumference of one hundred and nineteen miles ( which is the compass of the shire ) can shew three hundred twenty six parish churches ; or that at one stand can present thirty to the eye of the spectator , from the villages planted round about , as ours is observed to do . from all which considerations that thus do transfer an honour to the place of our birth , there is ( as far as such a relation can do it ) an honour transfer'd to those that are there born ; and consequently there is an obligation upon such ( as in the process of this discourse has been shewed ) to do somewhat that may tend to the honour of that ; and to forbear whatever may be to the disparagement of it , and render them unworthy of that character , and of the relation they have to it . and that you of this society may be the more encouraged to do what becomes you ( who by your appearance here upon this occasion do intend an honour to your country ) i shall add somewhat to what has been already said in general upon the argument ; and that i may do so with the greater freedom and assurance , shall take my rise from the tickets sent abroad for our invitation to this place and solemnity , in which it was declared that this society was revived for the promoting of charity . a design truly worthy and great , and so much the more fit to be revived , as there is so little of that excellent ingredient in such meetings , that ( however they may be called ) for the want of it , can hardly deserve the name of societies . and that i may the more clearly and effectually enlarge upon this subject , i shall reduce what i have to say , to union among your selves , charity towards those that want , and sobriety in your entertainments . . that which ought in the first place to be considered by you is union amongst your selves , without which , societies must dissolve , and the ends of them cannot be promoted or attained . there is no sadder object to a christian and peaceable mind , to one that knows how much love and good-will , meekness and patience are the duties and the ornament , the priviledge and blessing of our religion , than the divisions that are at present amongst us in this nation , not only ephraim and manasseth against judah , but judah against judah , there being scarcely ( as it s said ) a county , town , or village , but what is divided against its self , and suffers under the malignant influence of these exasperatons . a sad prognostick or fore-runner at present , and if not timely prevented , a necessary cause of ruin and destruction , according to that observation of our blessed saviour , every kingdom divided against it self , is brought to desolation ; and every city or house divided against its self , shall not stand . matth. . . there needs then no enemy to combine against us , no great skill or force to destroy us , for by mutual conspiracies against each other , and endeavours to weaken and destroy our selves , we shall like cato prevent the arms of our adversaries , and dye by our own . and they may with more safety to themselves , and with more advantage to their cause observe our mutual animosities , than interrupt them , and take us off from the violent prosecution of them by displaying their own banners , and boldly challenging us to dispute it with themselves . and yet though there is nothing that should be more industriously kept out of , nor sooner banished from societies , because nothing is more the bane of them , than this temper , yet ; it too much entertained is and cherished amongst them ; and no sooner can persons come together upon any good and worthy design , than they become clans and parties amongst themselves , and what were intended , and should have been the means of a happy union , have become the woful nurseries of discord and dissension . but , beloved , whatever may have been the sad fate of others , i hope better things of you , and that you that are of the same country by birth , the same city by habitation , and meet by joynt consent upon so generous and christian a design of charity , will take all due care to prevent and banish from amongst you all such evil principles of faction and turbulency , and avoid all such provocations as may obstruct it , and take you off from the just prosecution of it : that you that in the first place profess to honour god , by your appointed assembly here for divine worship , and in the next , to do good to others , will do both by an happy union amongst your selves . and therefore since there is nothing , perhaps , that doth more cherish and keep up our differences than new invented names ( which i shall not so far honour as to mention in this holy place and service ) by which those that were really no otherwise distinguished are too often distinguished , and that men may and do , too much apply to the wrong as to the right ; let it be your resolution and practice to lay them aside , and leave them in the streets , without giving them admission into your society . that there may be no others than what will in conversation distinguish an honest man from a knave , in the state a loyal person from a rebel : and i wish there were no need of any more in the church than what would distinguish a protestant from a papist , or rather that there were no such distinction at all , but that we all might return to the primitive state and temper , when all of the same religion were known by the one name of christians ; and the church of god all the world over being purged from bad principles , superstition , and idolatry , truly so called , ( which at present distinguish and divide the church of rome from the church of england , and from other reformed churches ) and from all schism , and faction that divide us amongst our selves , we may come to be one fold and flock , under the one shepherd and bishop of our souls , the blessed jesus , joh. . . pet. . . but though this is a state of things that we may rather desire than expect , and is not to be brought about without the wonderful providence of almighty god ; yet let us next to our prayers , that this kingdom of god may come , use our endeavour to make up the differences that are amongst us an effectual obstruction thereunto . this is a work may become the wisest of men , and will indeed try the skill of those that are most acquainted with the passions of humane nature , and the state of affairs in the world ▪ to prosecute , and accomplish ; when notwithstanding all the attempts made toward it , it has yet remained for the most part as it was . and therefore , when all the arguments taken from divine , moral , or political reasons have not succeeded , why should we not try that which is artificial ; which may serve as mechanical ways do in some operations , where rational and methodical applications fail . when a prince of the family of orange was stab'd by the murtherous hand of a flagitious assasin , and all the art and medicines the chyrurgions could use , stop'd not the flux of blood that issued from the orifice of the wound , they took another way , and stop'd it with the pressure of mens thumbs , till they had turned the course of blood. and when we see that all the means and prescriptions used by good men amongst us , cannot stop the flux of that virulent humour of strife and contention , let us try the artificial way before proposed , and obstinately resolve to forbear such names as may well be conceived do add no little fuel and flame to our dissensions : those names i say , that divide between the honest and the honest , the peaceable and the peaceable , the loyal and the loyal , and those that are of the same communion and church , from those that are in all points of that communion . this is a course that all may observe , the simple as well as the gentle ; and he that understands little of the state of humane affairs as well as he that understands much . and therfore , if it be a means proper thereunto , no christian should , and no one that wishes well unto our sion , and prays for the peace of jerusalem , will omit . now whether this be a means proper or no , becomes not me to be magisterial and positive in ( since it is a means rather prudential than theological ) but i shall leave it to the judgement of all pious and peaceable persons to consider , and the experience of mankind to answer for . and that i shall produce a most eminent example of from the history of italy . the story of the guelfs and gibellines is well known to the world , and the sad state of things that issued upon it . some say ( though probably it was otherwise ) that the dispute began betwixt two brothers of those names , the one contending for the right of the emperour , the other for that of the pope . but it soon set city against city , province against province , and one part of the people so against another , that they had not only different ensigns in war , but divers garments , colours , and gestures ; nay they took a pleasure to be distinguished by certain motions of their fingers and mouths . and being thus distinguished , the animosities remained , after the first cause was removed ; and notwithstanding all attempts made toward a pacification ; they pursued one another with such inveterate rage , vt ferme ad internecionem certatum sit , ( saith an excellent historian ) that it wanted little of an universal slaughter . thus it continued for above two hundred years , and perhaps had longer continued , if there had not been some other way taken for the extinction of that flame that for such a long current of years had been thus pernicious . which was put in prosecution by pope clement the th . who ordained , that the names of the guelfs and gibellines should be held accursed , and those be excommunicated that should use them by way of of distinction and reproach ; and so the names falling , the contention by degrees fell with the names . and why may it not be so again ? and that be done by a general consent amongst all pious and peaceable persons , which was done by a decree of the pope ? and i pray god it may be so amongst us ; that no corrupt communication proceed out of our mouth , but ( that we may conclude this advice with the following words of the apostle ) let all bitterness , and wrath , and anger , and clamour , and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice . and be you kind one to another forgiving one another even as god for christs sake hath forgiven you , ephes. . . , . if this be done , there is a good foundation laid for you to raise your superstructure upon . . let me recommend to your consideration , the duty of charity usually so called , in the care of those the world frowns upon , and god in his providence hath bereft of those comforts and accomodations we do enjoy . you cannot reflect upon the state of your country , and what your predecessors have done in order to so good an end , by the foundations raised for the service of god and relief of the indigent , without observing the honour that thereby redounds to that , and the president you have to follow according to your ability . this is a debt you owe to god that hath blessed and prospered you in the world , and which ( i perswade my self ) you are this day met with thankfulness to acknowledge ; and with a resolution to express it by not appearing before him empty , ex. . . when vespasian came to be emperour , he used frequently to visit cosa , where from his infancy he had been brought up under his grandmother tertulla , and chose to have the town continue as it then was , that it might bring his former condition fresh to his remembrance , as the roman historian relates . and if we would make a right estimate of our condition , and the obligations we are under to the divine goodness , it would not be amiss to trace our lives back , and to consider the several steps by which we have from our childhood been brought to the present state in which we are . how god hath made our ways prosperous , and our latter end to increase beyond our beginning , as bildad said , job . . . this is a duty you owe to your religion , which as it makes it our duty , so the honour of it is concerned , that we should convince the world , that as much may be done in charity where the opinion of merit is not , as where it is made a property to provoke men to it . this is a duty in which the protestants of the church of england have outdone those of the communion of the church of rome ( as has been proved by others , allowing time for time , ) the citizens of london have outdone others : and perhaps there may be a way found out in which you may exceed the rest of the city , though not in the greatness yet in the prudent distribution of your charity . the forreign churches amongst us have no such publick provisions made for the poor , nor are enabled to compel their members to contribute to their relief : and yet through the prevalency of a good custom , and forward examples they are of themselves so charitable ; and by the diligence , prudence and faithfulness of those to whom the care of the publick stock is committed , the charity is so well bestowed ; that none are found to beg in the streets , nor to supplicate others for their benevolence ; ( except those whom the present storm of the persecution in france hath drove ▪ hither for refuge ) though their numbers are great , and the families dispersed from one end of the town to the other . and it is an answer we have always ready at hand , if any such apply themselves to us , that they are already provided for , and that they either need it not , or are not worthy of our charity . and this will be a worthy example for you to imitate , and it would be an honour to you and your country ; if there could be such a way found out for collecting , receiving and disposing of your charity , that all that need , and are able to work may be employ'd , or by being put out to apprentiships , may be fitted for it ; all that cannot work , may be relieved ; and all that will not , may be stigmatized and branded . this will be a charity indeed , and perhaps may be of more use than to found and endow hospitals , and alms ▪ houses ; and in which you will be exemplary to others , and benificial as well to posterity as the age you live in . this will be better than the name of sons , and of daughters , and when time and other reasons have worn out families ( as its easie to shew it in the place of our nativity ) this will embalm your memories , and ( to make use of the prophets phrase ) will give you an everlasting name that shall not be cut off , isai. . . this will secure your estates , entail a blessing upon them and your posterities , as we are assured , ps. . . i have not seen the righteous ( or charitable ) forsaken nor his seed begging bread. he is ever merciful and lendeth ▪ and his seed is blessed . nay , if the apostle be to be regarded , such as do good , are rich in good works , ready to distribute , willing to communicate , do lay up for themselves a good foundation against the time to come , and lay hold on eternal life . tim. . , . . let me recomend to you sobriety in your entertainments ▪ this i think my self the rather obliged to take notice of , since if what has been of late the practice in some societies , should be transfer'd into all , and that intemperance should hold on the pace , which for some years past it has been observed to take , all societies would be dissolved ▪ or , which is as bad rendred useless and unserviceable and all the wise and good ends propounded in their first foundation and establishment be utterly defeated . then all good and sober men must exclude themselves thence ▪ and it would be as unfit for such a one to appear there , as it was for a vertuous cato ▪ to be present at the floral games , and the bestial practices , used in honour ( as they pretended ) of their gods , and when either they will be rude to him , or he must be rude to them . ahasuerus was no less generous in the liberty he gave his guests , by a law that none did compel , than in the plenty and abundance he entertained them with , esther . , . and i think he pays very dear for his meat and drink that is despoiled of , or denied that liberty ; and can purchase his admission into the company at no less a price than the loss of his reason and innocence ; and to make himself ridiculous to men ; and hateful to god. therefore since charity amongst your selves , and charity to others , is what you propound to your selves , and declare to others to be your design in your society , let it be your care so to manage it , that this so excellent an end may not be frustrated , and you lose the company , and that be deprived of the best members of it ; i mean such as are truly sober and vertuous , and you in the conclusion break up that society you have begun to establish . if these be the measures you observe and keep , and the society be thus regulated and carried on , it will be truly glorious , good , and useful . and that it may be prosperous , and live as long as there is a county to supply the city , and a city to receive members from the county will be the hearty prayer of all concerned in the welfare of both . then you will honour both ; and it will be the conclusion of all , that god himself shall count when he writeth up the people , that the man was born there selah . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e psal. . , . * psal. . . isa. . . v. bochart . geogr. sac. part. . l. . c. . † v. bochart . ibid. c. . ezek. . . c. . . c. . . &c. zech. . . v. dr. ham. in loc . v. castal . in loc . isa. . . sam. . . . kings . , . cap. . . herod . lib. . c. . act. . . salust . bel. cat. v. max. l. c. . n. . act. . , prov. . . v. bochart . geog. part . l. . c. . de civ . dei ▪ l. . c. . . &c. sam. . . zech. . ▪ deut. . . &c. isai. . ▪ psalm . . psalm . . psalm . . . rom. . . ps. . . pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lib. . n. . * olearius . phil. . . acts . ●● . cor. . . acts . . valer. max. l. . tit. . . ezek. . . lev. . . nahum . . isa . . cumbden brit. bale cent . . num . . fuller's worthies politic. nauclerus generat . ▪ platina vit . bonif. . spondani supplem . baron . an. . . a vindication of the sermons of his grace john archbishop of canterbury concerning the divinity and incarnation of our b. saviour : and of the lord bishop of worcester's sermon on the mysteries of the christian faith, from the exceptions of a late book, entituled, considerations on the explications of the doctrine of the trinity : to which is annexed, a letter from the lord bishop of sarum to the author of the said vindication, on the same subject. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of the sermons of his grace john archbishop of canterbury concerning the divinity and incarnation of our b. saviour : and of the lord bishop of worcester's sermon on the mysteries of the christian faith, from the exceptions of a late book, entituled, considerations on the explications of the doctrine of the trinity : to which is annexed, a letter from the lord bishop of sarum to the author of the said vindication, on the same subject. williams, john, ?- . nye, stephen, ?- . considerations on the explications of the doctrine of the trinity. burnet, gilbert, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . half title: a vindication of the archbishop tillotson's sermon, concerning the divinity and incarnation of our b. saviour, &c. errata: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng tillotson, john, - . stillingfleet, edward, - . -- mysteries of the christian faith asserted. jesus christ -- divinity -- early works to . trinity -- early works to . incarnation -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - melanie sanders sampled and proofread - melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of the archbishop tillotson's sermons , concerning the divinity and incarnation of our b. saviour , &c. imprimatur , lamb. nov. , . ra. barker . a vindication of the sermons of his grace john archbishop of canterbury , concerning the divinity and incarnation of our b. saviour : and of the lord bishop of worcester's sermon on the mysteries of the christian faith : from the exceptions of a late book , entituled , considerations on the explications of the doctrine of the trinity . to which is annexed , a letter from the lord bishop of sarum to the author of the said vindication , on the same subject . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard . mdcxcv . to his honoured friend , james chadwick , esq. the present i here make you being a vindication of my late lord of canterbury , and the cause he seasonably appeared in , and successfully defended , the dedication of it seems of right to belong to you , who besides the happiness of a near alliance and a long and inward acquaintance , had a just esteem and veneration for him. it was not without his grace's direction and encouragement that i entred upon this work ; and had he lived to have perus'd the whole , as he did a part of it , ( a few days before his last hours ) it had come with greater advantage into the world , and much more to my own satisfaction , as having passed the trial of that exact and impartial judgment which he was wont to exercise in matters of this nature . but however it may fall short in that particular , such as it is , i here present it to you , not doubting ( though it may not deserve it for its own sake ) but you will accept it in remembrance of so excellent a friend , and as a testimony of all due respect from , sir , your affectionate servant , j. williams . the preface . the subject which the author of the considerations undertakes , is a prime article of the christian faith , and so requires seriousness and decorum in the management of it : and the persons to whom he declares himself an adversary , are not only of an eminent order and station in the church , but also such as have approved themselves in their writings to be of that learning and judgment , that temper and moderation , that their adversary cannot but pay some reverence , in expressions at least , to their persons for it . but notwithstanding this , as if he had a distrust in his cause , and durst not venture it abroad into the world upon the strength of its own reason and authority , he soon endeavours to prepossess his unwary readers with such insinuations as he thinks will make them , if not of his own party , yet suspect the sincerity of the other . for would you know who those are that he proclaims war against ? they are one while a poor sort of weak people at the best , that , he saith , neither have nor can defend their cause , but have given it up to the socinians : but if you would indeed know who they are , in their proper colours ; they are the great pensioners of the world , that are bribed with great rewards . they are of a church , whose fears and aws are greater than their bribes . another while they are great men indeed that defend the doctrine of the trinity against them , but 't is that they must maintain it , p. . so that set aside preferments , fears and aws , and without doubt these great men , and the whole church and nation ( as he would have it believed ) would socinianise , and become their proselytes . would one think that this person had ever read the character his grace has given his predecessors in that controversy , who used generally to lay aside unseemly reflections , & c. ? would one think this to be the person that in the page before said , that the archbishop instructed the socinians themselves with the air and language of a father , not of an adversary or judge ? or rather , has he not given us reason to think he would have these doubtful expressions construed to the disadvantage of him whom he therein pretends to commend ? or does he think , that after all , he has wiped his mouth , and comes off with some decorum , that he asks pardon , if there be any thing here said , not respectful enough . solomon saith , as a mad man who casteth firebrands , arrows , and death , so is the man that deceiveth ( or as the septuagint reads it , traduceth ) his neighbour , and saith , am i not in sport ? for can any thing blacker be said , than that because of the preferments on one side , and the fears and aws on the other , these great men defend the doctrine of the trinity , and defend it because they must . all that can be said is , that in his opinion these are fatal biasses ; in his opinion , i say , who after all his pretence to a freedom from these biasses which the great pensioners of the world are under the power of , cannot so smother it , but upon occasion it will break forth : o , saith he , let the church-preferments be proposed as the reward of only learning and piety , and then mighty things shall be done , and it shall be soon seen how many eyes this liberty would open . surely he must have too fatal an inclination this way himself , that can think so ill of mankind , and of such who are known to have been tried when time was , but despised his sort of bribes and fears too , when armed with power and authority ; when they , with a bravery becoming their learning and integrity , dar'd to own ( in his phrase ) not only an inconvenient but a dangerous truth , p. . surely this is a sort of treatment that these venerable persons might not have expected from one of that denomination , that used to argue with decency . but what may not be expected from him , who has the confidence to tell the world , that the ancient unitarians did generally reject the gospel , and other pieces now attributed to st. john , and said they were written by the heretick cerinthus ? p. , &c. and because he thought himself obliged rather to vindicate those beloved predecessors of his ( as he would have it ) than those divine books ; he pretends particularly to set down their reasons in order ; of which matter , though ( as he tells us ) he will affirm nothing ; yet , saith he , i should be glad to see an answer to their exceptions . after which , i hope these great men will think it no disparagement to suffer the utmost indignity in such company as that of the divine evangelist . but of this more in its proper place . but why doth our author thus lead up the van , and bring up the rear of his answer to these venerable persons , with this popular topick of church-preferments , and church-fears ? was there never a time when the church of god professed the same tenets which our church defends , without any of those great rewards to bribe them ; and when on all sides they were beset with the aws and fears of a furious and embitter'd adversary ? was there not a time when his unitarians possess'd some of the greatest preferments , when ( as our author tells us ) they had their paulus patriarch of antioch ; and photinus metropolitan of illyricum ; and that their followers abounded every-where , & c. ? p. . and i may tell him as a secret , was there not a time when the power of these fatal biasses was abroad , that their metropolitans were not wont to treat the trinitarians with the air and language of a father , but of an adversary , and a tyrannical judge ? what else was the meaning of the commotions , violences , and outrages us'd in those days , when fire and faggot were even among them in fashion ; when bishops were deposed , exiled , slain , and the whole empire in a combustion by those infamous practices ? surely ( as our author saith of his adversaries ) if those persons had believed as they said , they could never think it necessary to use the precaution of such mighty aws and draconick sanctions , to maintain a truth so obvious , as they pretend , to every unprejudiced , and every honest man , p. . this , i doubt me , is in his words a thorny and ungrateful subject . and he may thank himself for giving the occasion ; and me for not tracing it further . for which , as i am not conscious to my self of having done them any wrong ; so i don't think it fit to conclude my preface , as he doth his , with asking his pardon . errata . page . l. . dele from and to perswasion . p. . l. : r. uncouth . p. . l. ule . r. paraphrase . p. . l. . r. what if . p. . l. . for usually r. really . p. . l. . after place make a ( , ) l. . for and r. and , l. . after created make a ( t ) a vindication of the sermons of his grace the archbishop of canterbury , concerning the divinity and incarnation of our b. saviour , &c. sect . i. of the deity of our saviour . the author of the considerations having taken a liberty of dispersing the matter before him without any just order , doth accordingly often repeat things of the same kind ; making some ventures upon a point in one place , and taking it up again in another ; so that his reader is often rather amused than satisfied . tho withal , he takes occasion to quicken his matter ( which would otherwise have proved nauseous and heavy ) with several part remarks and reflections . but being my design is not like a man of mystery ( as he scoffingly represents it ) to darken the cause , or to cast a mist before the eyes of the reader ; i shall gently lead him by the hand , and endeavour to put what i have to say , into that order , that whatever force is in it , the reader may soon discover ; or what defects may be in it , he may be able to detect . this author allows his grace to be open and ingenuous in declaring his opinion of the trinity ; and is pleased to allow him a right to alledge particular scriptures to prove the divinity of our saviour . and whether he has proved it or not , is the point in controversy . before i proceed to which , i shall briefly state the point , and shew what are the distinct opinions of the orthodox , the arians , and socinians , concerning it ; for into one of these , is the whole to be resolved . the orthodox hold , that christ the word , and only begotten of the father , was truly and really god from all eternity ; god by participation of the divine nature and happiness together with the father , and by way of derivation from him , as light from the sun ; and that he made all creatures , and so could no more be a creature , than it is possible for a creature to make it self . thus a. bp. p. , , . the arians conceive , that sometime before the world was made , god generated the son after an ineffable manner , to be his instrument and minister in making the world. and this son is called god in scripture , not in the most perfect sense , but with respect to the creatures whom he made . so our author , p. . a socinus held , that the son was not in being till he was the son of the virgin ; and that therefore he was a god , not in nature , but by way of office , mission , or representation , as moses , and others , are called god in scripture . so our author , p. . b against these two last , his grace directed his discourse , and took them up in order ; and in the first place founded his argument upon the first chapter of st. john's gospel . here his adversary labours with all his might to put by the force of those arguments . doth the archbishop reason from the context ? if you will believe this author , this text is alledged impertinently by him for the trinitarians , which it doth not favour , no , not in the least . that his grace can raise the expressions no higher than arianism , p. . that as for the historical occasion assigned by his grace , there is no historian ( he is sure , no ancient historian ) assigns it . and that many of the ancients did believe that cerinthus was the true author of the gospel imputed to st. john ; and that the ancient unitarians did reject the gospel , epistles , and revelation now attributed to him , p. , . this is the sum of what he has said ; all of which will be comprehended under the following heads . . i shall consider the authority of st. john's gospel , and other writings ascribed to him . . i shall consider the authority of those vnitarians who , he saith , rejected those writings . . if st. john proves to be the author of the gospel , i shall consider the occasion upon which he is said to have written that book . . i shall defend the orthodox explication of it , given by the archbishop . . i shall consider the authority of those writings , which are usually ascribed to st. john , viz. the gospel , three epistles , and the revelation . it 's much , that we should be put upon the proof of this at this time of day , and by one that professes himself to believe the christian religion ; of which inconsistency , i think it 's much more difficult to give an account , than of the writings of that apostle , called in question by his dear friends , the ancient vnitarians . it is certain , that there was not the least occasion given him from the point in dispute to enter upon this matter , where both sides agreed , or would be thought to be agreed about the authority of the book they reason from : and which he saith , is with great colour alledged for the arian doctrine , p. . and that socinus's explication of it , would perfectly agree to the lord christ. but i must confess , he has given too great reason to suspect , that he is in this point of the same mind with the ancient vnitarians ; and would allow cerinthus , or simon magus , or any of the like rabble , to be author of those writings , rather than that divine apostle . but as he wisely observes , that those ancient vnitarians that had rejected them ; yet , because they saw it begun to grow into credit among the other denominations of christians , many of which had been seduced by the platonick philosophers that came over to christianity ; therefore they were careful to show them , that it was capable of a very allowable sense ; and that it doth not appear , that either st. john , or cerinthus , intended to advance a second god , p. . a that is , in plain and honest english , they themselves did not at all believe those to be the works of st. john ; but because there was no going against the stream , and that among the other denominations of christians these were universally received , they would then swim with it ; and then whoever was the author , whether st. john or cerinthus , was no trinitarian . and if they could have made this out to the satisfaction of the adverse party , and there had been nothing wanting but their approbation of the aforesaid works to have made the christians of other denominations intirely theirs ; then they that at first held , that cerinthus , and not st. john , was the author ; and towards an accommodation , came so far , as to say for convenience sake , st. john , or cerinthus , to remove all rubs out of the way , and to have compleated the design , would without doubt have intirely come over so far to them , whatever they themseves thought ; and they would have consented that st. john , and not cerinthus , was the author . but alas ! that was too hard a task , for st. john himself would not bend and comply , and could not be made a vnitarian . in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god , &c. was as stable as a rock ; and therefore if st. john would not be for them , they would not be for him . and then all the vnitarians with one consent reject the gospel , epistles , and revelation , and give the honour from st. john to cerinthus , who should be said to write them , to confirm this heretick's cabalastick and platonick notions about the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or word , and his jewish dreams about the millenary kingdom , p. . now which part our author will take to , whether that of the ancient vnitarians , who , he saith , were contemporaries to the first fathers of the church , and were older than any of those fathers whose works are now extant ( if we will believe him ) ; whether , i say , he will take to them and reject these books , or whether forsake his friends , and side with those fathers whose works are now extant , and the rest of the catholick church in receiving them , i am not able positively to determine ; for he holds us in suspence and saith , he will affirm nothing in the matter , but should be glad to see a good answer to the exceptions against these books , which we receive as st. john ' s , that were made by the ancient unitarians . i do not think my self obliged to enter into the merits of that cause , unless he will yield those books of st. john to be for the trinitarians , and therefore calls their authority in question : but when he professes st. john not to favour , no not in the least , the trinitarian doctrine , and to be wholly socinian , what need is there to prolong the time and postpone the consideration of the main cause , and that i must be put upon the proof of this , and hew my way through all those formidable arguments of the unitarians against st. john's writings , before i must be admitted to argue the point in debate ? which is , as if when his grace had said , that the first chapter of genesis might as well be interpreted of a new moral creation , as the first chapter of st. john ; before he would allow me to proceed to the proof of this , he should require me to shew that moses wrote the book of genesis , and oblige me to answer all the arguments of abenezra against it . but how impertinent soever this may be , yet to shew my self a fair adversary , i will return him his complement ( since i have time for it ) that he shall not ( as he saith to his grace ) put that question , which i will not satisfy , if i can , and reasonably may . let us then see ( for he has undertaken to shew us them ) what were the allegations of the unitarians out of eusebius , but especially out of st. epiphanius , who hath written very largely of this matter ( as he saith ) . for these arguments this author refers us to eusebius and epiphanius , but as for eusebius , he says nothing of these arguments our author cites him for ; and as for what are in eusebius , they are not the allegations of the unitarians , but of some of the otherwise orthodox against the apocalypse , as i shall shew . as for epiphanius , our author saith , he hath written very largely of this matter : but if he has , it had become him to have observ'd that it was because of the answer he has given to the arguments which the alogi ( in our author 's english , the unitarians ) alledged against st. john's writings , in which that historian is very particular ; and not to propose them as if they had stood the shock of several ages , and to this day wanted a reply ; for after this manner he introduces them , i should be glad to see a good answer to the exceptions of the unitarians , against the books which we receive as st. john's . but perhaps in his esteem what epiphanius hath said , is not a good answer ; and as impertinent and ridiculous as that he makes for him in the case of thyatira , of which more anon . it 's time now to examine them . object . . the unitarians said , that it was the current opinion and general tradition , that cerinthus , and not st. john , was author of the gospel , epistles , and revelation , that go under st. john's name : for as to the revelation , it was scarce doubted by any to be the work of cerinthus ; and as such , was wrote against by divers learned men of the catholick persuasion , as 't is now called . a. the answer epiphanius gives to that clause about cerinthus , is , how could cerinthus be the author of that which was directly opposite to him : for cerinthus would have christ to be a meer and late-born man , whereas st. john saith , the word always was , and came from heaven , and was made flesh . now i conceive this answer of epiphanius to be good , unless they would have cerinthus to contradict himself . as to the other clauses of our author's objections , ( for they are not in epiphanius ) nothing is more false , than that it was the current opinion and general tradition that cerinthus was the author of all those writings ; and that the revelation was scarce doubted by any to be his , and was wrote against , as such by divers of the catholick persuasion : for , . there were some books of st. john , of which there never was any question in the christian church , which eusebius calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such is his gospel , which irenaus , and eusebius from him , say he published , while at ephesus , at the instance of the asian bishops , and as such is often quoted by the fathers . this sandius , a late author of the unitarians acknowledges , who saith , the gospel was always accounted canonical . such again is the first epistle of st. john , which , saith eusebius , is admitted by the present as it was by the ancient christians without dispute . so st. jerom ; upon which grotius saith , that it was never doubted to be st. john's . so sandius again . . those books that were not so generally receiv'd as st. john's , were yet for the most part receiv'd as canonical . such were the d. and d. epistles ; of which some would have another john , call'd john the presbyter , to be the author , as st. jerom saith , and grotius from him ; but for the most part it was believed to be st. john the evangelist * : against which ( it seems ) the ancient unitarians had nothing particularly to object ; for else we should have learn'd it from our author . of this sort is the apocalypse ; of which , saith our author , it was scarce doubted by any to be the work of cerinthus . eusebius indeed saith , some do question it : but who and how many were they on the other side that did not doubt of either its authority or author , even such as justin martyr , irenaus , tertullian , &c. † some of which interpreted it , ( as st. jerom saith ) and say that st. john wrote it when in patmos . but i shall refer our author for the rest to grotius and sandius ; the latter of which charges them with blasphemy that would attribute it to cerinthus . lastly , saith our author , the revelation was as the work of cerinthus , wrote against by divers learned men of the catholick persuasion . a. dionysius alexandrinus was of the number of those that questioned whether st. john the evangelist were the author ; and for this indeed he offers several reasons , but of so little force , that if our author hath seen them , as he has not so he could not have the confidence to propose them in behalf of his ancient unitarians . but whatever that father thought of the author , he allowed the book to be divine . there were indeed some others of the catholick persuasion , that dionysius spoke of in the same book , ( as eusebius eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . relates ) that would have the apocalypse wrote by cerinthus ; but they were few , and such as were troubled with a sort of millenaries , followers of nepos an egyptian bishop , ( of repute for his learning , faith , and knowledge of the scripture ) who for their opinion quoted the apocalypse . and it seems , as the ancient unitarians rejected st. john's writings , because they favour'd the divinity of our saviour ; so those ( otherwise orthodox ) would , it 's likely , have rejected the apocalypse , because it favoured ( as they thought ) the cause of the millennium . upon the whole it appears , that it was the current opinion and general tradition , that st. john , and not cerinthus , was the author of the works attributed to that evangelist . object . . they objected , he saith , ' that this gospel is wholly made use of by the cerinthians and valeminians , the two chief sects of the gnosticks , and for this he quotes irenaeus , as well as epiphanins . a. what is this brought to prove ? will it prove cerinthus to be the author of that gospel ? then it may as well prove valentinus to be the author of it , as cerinthus , since the valentinians wholly made use of it , as well as the cerinthians . or will it prove that the gospel is a valentinian , a cerinthian , or gnostick gospel ? then so would the other scriptures be such as the sects were that quoted them , that corrupted and wrested them , to serve their purpose . and thus irenaeus tells us the gnosticks did , as he gives instances enough , haer. l. . c. , , . nay , cerinthus himself owned the gospel of st. matthew , at least part of it ; will it therefore follow that the doctrine of cerinthus was favoured in that gospel , or might be proved from it ? but his grace saith , this gospel was wrote against cerinthus ; and then , saith our author , how came the cerinthians to use it ? a. they used it as the other hereticks used that and other scriptures . and irenaeus applies this to another purpose ; for , saith he , by this means they give testimony to us . and this they might so much the rather do , as the evangelist makes use of several terms of theirs ( as his grace and grotius have shewed ) such as life , light , fulness , which the followers of cerinthus ( who were willing to catch at any thing , as appears from irenaeus ) finding there , would challenge for theirs ; and this our author himself intimates , when he thus expounds irenaeus , that they , the gnosticks , greedily used this gospel as a proof of their eons . object . : ' the other three evangelists suppose all along that our saviour preached but one year , and therefore they reckon but one passover ; but ( the pretended ) st. john counts three years , and three passovers ; which , saith our author , ' seems to me an unaccountable contradiction ; and yet it is granted on all bands , some finding a th year and passover . answ. it is an unaccountable contradiction indeed , if the other three evangelists had said , that our saviour preached but one year , and that there was but one passover , when st. john saith there were three passovers , and consequently three years , or thereabouts . but the question is , whether the three evangelists gave any such account ; i am certain they do not . and if one will but consider the occurrences in the time of our saviour's preaching , as it 's impossible ( morally speaking ) it should all be done in one years time ; so he that will but consider the way of computation , as epiphanius hath done haer. . . will see that what st. john saith must needs be true . but what then will become of the other evangelists ? must they be excluded out of the number of the canonical ? no surely . but we are to consider when each evangelist begins , and what he takes in hand to pursue , of which epiphanius gives a very good account . and if we take this course , we shall find the latter evangelists often to supply the omissions of the preceding . and so st. john , who lived the longest , and wrote last of them , doth in the case before us , and distributes the time of our saviour's ministry into annals , or passovers , after the jewish way of computation , beginning his account from our saviour's baptism , and connecting it to john the baptist's imprisonment ( where the other evangelists begin ) by which means the history is made compleat , and the evangelists are found to agree , as eusebius , and st. jerom observe . the omission of which , by the other evangelists , makes it no more a contradiction , than when st. matthew begins the genealogy of our saviour with abraham , st. luke carries it to adam , and st. john makes him to exist before the world. omissions are no contradictions , and such as these no unaccountable omissions . and as for that single passeover , the other three speak of , it was not , as that was a chronological character of time , circumscribing the whole space of our saviour's ministry ; but a remarkable point , denoting the special season he suffer'd in , with relation to the great type under the law , and for which he is sometime called our passover . this , i say , no more describes the compleat time of his ministry , than it will follow that because pontius pilate was then said to be governor of judea , that he was governor but one year only . object . . ' the other evangelists agree , that immediately after his baptism our lord was led into the wilderness to be tempted forty days . but cerinthus , who knew not the series or order of our saviour's life and miracles , says in the gospel , which he has , say they , [ viz. the ancient unitarians ] forged for st. john , that the next day after his baptism , our saviour spake with andrew and peter , and the day after went to galilee , and on the third was at a wedding in cana , and after this departed with his mother and brethren to capernaum , where he abode some time . a. our author saith , the next day after our saviour's baptism , he spake with andrew , &c. i answer , . there is no mention at all of our saviour's baptism in that chapter , but the history of that being particularly relalated by the other evangelists , st. john supposes it , and refers to it , v. . john bare witness — this is he of whom i spake , that is , formerly ; and when that was , st. matthew . . shews , which was just before his baptism . . accordingly , all the way there is an observable difference of phrase between st. john and the other evangelists . matthew saith , he it is that cometh after me , that is , he that is to come . st. john saith , ver. . there standeth one among you , he it is that coming after me , [ as i have said . ] so ver . john seeth jesus coming ; — he spake of him , as one then known to himself , but that was not till his baptism , ver . . so again , ver . . this is be , of whom i said , [ formerly ] ver. , . john bare record , saying , i saw the spirit , — and it abode upon him . the phrases , said , saw , bare record , abode , do shew that it was a certain time past , which he refers to . from whence it appears , ( . ) that the phrase , the next day , has no reference to our saviour's baptism ( for that st. john is not relating ) but to the discourse then in hand ; as the same phrase , ver. . had . ( . ) that there was a distance of time between our saviour's baptism , and that time that john the baptist had the discourse with the pharisees at bethabara , ver . , , . which was the day before he met andrew , ver . . . it 's not at all unreasonable to suppose , that our saviour's temptation in the wilderness , &c. did fall in with that time ; for after his baptism he immediately went into the wilderness , mark . . and john the baptist may well be supposed to have spent that time in preaching and baptizing near to jordan , and in the parts adjoyning to it ; all which st. john omits , as having been before recorded by the other evangelists , as well as our saviour's baptism . but the learned reader may consult epiphanius , haer. . , &c. and petavius's notes upon it . and i will refer our author to schlictingius's note on john . . object . . ' he has feigned an epistle , as from st. john , to the bishop and church of thyatira , &c. but it 's certain and notorious , say the unitarians , that there was no church at thyatira , till a long time after st. john's death . 't is a very ridiculous answer made to this by epiphanius , who being sensible ( because he was of asia ) of the truth of this objection , is forced to be content with this vain elusion , that st. john writes prophetically of this church . a. . it 's far from being certain , that there was no church , and if st. john be of any authority , it 's as certain there was a church there , as in the other six cities , for it 's in the same stile ; and it may be as well said , there was no church at ephesus , as at thyatira , if the way of writing is to be regarded . . it 's not probable that there should be no church there , when churches were planted all about , and that it 's granted all the other six were churches then in being . . if i understand epiphanius , he is far from granting it : all that he saith , is , ( . ) supposing it to be so * , what will follow ? why , ' these very persons are forced from the things which they object against it , by their own confession , to assent to the truth ; that st. john foretold things to come by divine inspiration , concerning the corruption of that church , and those false prophetesses that should arise in it ninety three years after our lord's ascension . ( . ) he positively saith , there was a church there in st. john's time ; for saith he , st. john foresaw that after the time of the apostles , and of st. john , the church would fall from the truth into error , even that of the cataphryges , of which were the pretended prophetesses , priscilla , maximilla , and quintilla . so again , he wrote by prophecy to those christians , that then were there in thyatira , that a woman , who would call her self a prophetess , should arise among them . so that our author is as wide of the sense of epiphanius , as his unitarians were of the truth , that would so many years after affirm there was no church at thyatira in st. john's time . i suppose our author took it up at the second hand ; for i perceive pererius , and perhaps others , mistook epiphanius . it seems that the church there had been either destroyed by persecution , or corrupted by the cataphryges , out of which condition it having recovered a hundred and twelve years after , ( as epiphanius saith ) the alogi ignorantly concluded there never had been a church there till that time ; or however , made use of this pretence to countenance their impious design of overthrowing the authority of that book : a design that our author hath shewed himself too great a well-wisher to , by so formal a repetition of those sorry , and so often baffled objections ; and by adding what force he ( under the name of the ancient unitarians ) could to support them . which brings into my mind an unhappy passage in serm. . of the archbishop , concerning the doctrine of socinus , and his uncoucht way of managing of it . it was only to serve and support an opinion which he had entertained before , and therefore was resolved one way or other to bring the scripture to comply with it : and if he could not have done it , it is greatly to be fear'd , that he would at last have called in question the divine authority of st. john's gospel , rather than have quitted his opinion . it was evidently so in the case of the alogi or ancient unitarians ; and what doth our author want of it , that thus rakes into the dirt of that generation , and would have them the best part of the christian church ? but that remains to be consider'd . ii. who are the ancient unitarians , that our author at all times speaks so venerably of , and that thus rejected the books usually ascribed to st. john ? this name of the unitarians and ancient unitarians , is a title much made use of , of late ; and it is a term of latitude , that to those that know not the difference , adds much to the number ; for under that , they would comprehend all that deny a trinity , or think not alike of it with the catholick church , whether arians , or photinians and socinians ; though at the same time they disagree , as well among themselves , ( as i shall shew ) as with us , and particularly in the point in question , viz. the authority of st. john's gospel , &c. our author often speaks of the ancient unitarians ; and if we would know how ancient they are , he tells us , they were contemporaries to the first fathers of the church , and were older than any of those fathers whose works are now extant , p. . that is , st. clemens himself contemporary to st. paul. now whom should we so soon fix upon for his ancient unitarians , as cerinthus and ebion , for they were ancient , as contemporaries with the first fathers of the church ; and were both of them unitarians , as they both held that our saviour was a meer man ? but here our author interposes , and because he confesses he has met with these two names in the church history ; and when he did , to be sure finds no passable character of them ; therefore he will not have ebion a person , nor cerinthus a unitarian ; and for the proof of the latter , offers no testimony ( the way for proving matter of fact ) but an argument of his own ; for , saith he , if cerinthus held the unity of god , and denied the divinity and pre-existence of our saviour ( as his grace and the moderns suppose ) neither it should seem , would the unitarians have reckoned him a heretick , nor have rejected the books which they supposed to be his ; namely , the gospel , epistles , and revelation , now attributed to st. john. as if a person might not be orthodox in one point , and heretical in others ; and the unitarians might not reckon cerinthus a heretick ( who held jesus was not born of a virgin , but was the real son of joseph and mary , and that christ descended upon jesus after his baptism , and leaving him again , returned to heaven ; and so it was jesus , and not christ that died ; with more of these whimsical dreams ) though he agreed with them in denying the divinity and pre-existence of our saviour . the matter of fact is beyond all contradiction , that cerinthus was a unitarian , as church-history would have informed any smatterer in it , ( as irenaeus , eusebius , epiphanius , &c. abundantly testify ) but it is his own argument that is , in his pharse , obscure and puzzling . but he is not so willing to part with ebion , the name i mean , and will have it given by some to the first christians , because of their poverty ; and then because the ebionites were unitarians in one sense , therefore they must be hereticks in none . but herein he is as unsuccessful as in his former attempt ; for besides their agreement with the unitarians in denial of christ's divinity , they held the observation of the law of moses necessary , were circumcised , and rejected st. paul as an apostate , &c. both of these then must be unitarians , and ancient unitarians ; but then comes a very obscure and puzzling part of his history ; for whatever cerinthus himself thought , yet our author tells us , that the gospel of st. john was wholly made use of by the cerinthians , his followers . and then though these were unitarians , yet being not of the number of those that wholly rejected st. john's writings , we are much at a loss to find out those of them that were older than any of those fathers whose works are now extant . i doubt we must come a step lower , and from being older than those fathers of the church , whose works are now extant , they will prove at the most contemporaries with , if not after several of them , about the close of the d. century , as is computed . our author himself points to them , and they were the alogi . so termed by epiphanius , because they denied christ to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the word , and the son of god ; and would have him a meer man. but now though these are unitarians , and the most like to the socinians of all the ancient unitarians , if not the only ones that are so ( as sandius would have it , p. , , &c. ) though they agree with his character again , that they rejected all the works commonly ascribed to st. john ; yet they seem to be the only unitarians that did anciently agree in disowning the authority of all those books ; and then it will follow , that the unitarians were not more ancient than those fathers , whose works are now extant ; though he saith , it is certain and confess'd by them all , that the ancient unitarians from the apostolick times to the nicene council , or thereabouts , did reject them . so that i see no remedy , but if he will be positive in it , that he must be contented to let the cerinthians as well as the ebionites , pass for unitarians , to make his sect thus ancient as the apostolick times : but how he will do to find out those that did thus professedly reject all those writings of st. john before them , and from the apostolick times to them ; and yet were older than such fathers of the church , as clemens romanus , polycarp , ignatius , &c. some of whose works are now extant ; i must leave to his consideration . thus much shall suffice to have said about the authority of st. john's writings , and particularly of his gospel . but there is another point yet to be debated ; which is , iii. to consider what was the occasion upon which st. john wrote his gospel . this is one of the first things his grace doth take into consideration ; as the knowledge of this seem'd to him to be the only true key to the interpretation of this discourse of st. john and the neglect of which was one of the grounds of socinus's great and fatal mistake , as he saith . how ! socinus mistake ! rather let st. john's gospel , and all his other works , labour and sink under the exceptions of the ancient unitarians ; and lye by the walls till the world can give a good answer to them . rather let st. john take up words by chance ( as our author saith , p. . ) and use the words life , fulness , only begotten , as they came in his way , without any design , than the great socinus should be blamed . st. john , indeed , may be said to use words by chance ; but sociinus , formed , and thought , and concluded , and understood ; and according as he formed , and thought , and concluded , so it must be meant . he was the man that saw plainly , ( as he words it again , p. . ) and if his grace , in vindication of st. john , and in compliance with the ancient historians , will adventure to interpret him from the occasion of his writing , he deserves to be treated with contempt . the serene republick owns none of these titles , bishop and archbishop , &c. thus scoffingly and boyishly doth he introduce this serious argument . o he ! says his grace , how strangely has this man [ socinus ] mistook for want of the light of ancient history ! thus he interprets scripture by scripture , and by reason and wit , not by the fathers and the old historians of the chruches party , &c. i could find in my heart to transcribe what his grace has wrote upon this case ; his words are these : it was the great and fatal mistake of socinus , to go to interpret scripture merely by criticising upon words , and searching into all the senses that they are capable of , till he can find one , though never so forced and foreign , that will save harmless the opinion which he was resolved beforehand to maintain , even against the most natural and obvious sense of the text which he undertakes to interpret . just as if a man should interpret ancient statutes and records , by mere critical skill in words , without regard to the true occasion upon which they were made , and without any manner of knowledge and insight into the history of the age in which they were written , p. . . and that this was the way socinus took , our author 's own account of it will manifest , 〈◊〉 , where he chalks out the method his great master observed , in interpreting that evangelist , and that is , by laying down certain propositions , which he resolved to accommodate all to ; such was the unity of god : and therefore , saith he , when the word is called god , it must be meant in a sense of office : and whereas it is said , all things were made by him ; those things must be the spiritual world , &c. and then farewell fathers , and historians , occasions , and scripture too , rather than the reason and wit of socinus be called in question . well , but supposing that our author is content to have the historical occasion of st. john's writing inquired into ; yet , as for that assign'd by his grace , it was , he saith , below the gravity of the apostle to confute the wild gnosticks , &c. and if you will take his word for it , he adds , i am of opinion , that there is no historian ( i am sure there is no ancient historian ) who assigns that historical occasion of st. john's writings , even the gnosticks and their eons , mentioned by his grace . in short , he hath not very justly blamed socinus , for not knowing an historical occasion , which is mentioned in no historian , p. . this is very positive , no historian , no ancient historian , and mentioned in no historian . we have gained before ( if it be worth the while to prove it ) that cerinthus and ebion ( supposing him for the present a person ) did deny the divinity of our saviour , according as his grace represented it . the next thing is to shew , that these their opinions was an occasion which st. john took for the writing his gospel , in the judgment of the ancient historians , and fathers of the church . here our author interposes , and saith , the account given of this matter by the ancient , is very different from this of his grace . for they say , according to our author 's antique translation , that the other evangelists having committed to writing only the gests of our saviour , during one years space : therefore the apostle john , being thereto requested , declared in a gospel according to him , the time that was passed over by the other evangelists , and what was done by our saviour therein * . it is very true , that the one of these is different from the other ; but tho they are different , they are not contradictory and inconsistent . for then , not only the archbishop would contradict himself , who elsewhere gives the same account , and tells us from eusebius that st john wrote his gospel last , and that on purpose to supply the omissions of the other evangelists † ; but the fathers also would contradict one another , and often themselves ; who sometimes give the one , and sometimes the other , and sometimes both as the reasons of st. john's writing , ( as i shall presently shew ) . by which way of arguing , epiphanius , eusebius , and st. jerome , &c. will closh one with another ; when the first of these saith , st. john wrote his gospel * by the impulse of the holy ghost ; and the other says , it was at the instance of the asian bishops . but now , as these two may well be accommodated , and are consistent ; so it is in the account given by the ancients of the occasion of st. john's writing the gospel ; therefore st. jerom † joyns them together , and after he had said , that st. john wrote it in confutation of cerinthus , and other hereticks ; adds , there is also another cause , and then falls in with eusebius . so irenaeus expresly * so epiphanius . and thus sandius doth acknowledg , that against the heresy of cerinthus and ebion , , st. john ( as we have it by tradition ) wrote his gospel . thus far then we are safe , and have the suffrage of antiquity on our side , that st. john wrote his gospel against the heresies of cerinthus and ebion . and indeed , by our author's reply to this part , we may guess , that when he met with these two names in the church-history , he met with nothing against it . for thus he goes on . first , as to ebion , concerning him , it is , saith he , doubted by the criticks , whether there was any such man : nay , a little after , he is got above the criticks , and positively affirms , that ebion never was . now , supposing his modern opposers , and among them the archbishop , for want of consulting the indexes of names in church history , had mistaken ; yet , how will that confute his modern opposers , who use to quote irenaeus , epiphanius , &c. for their assertion , that st. john wrote against the ebionites ? for tho ebion never was , yet the ebionites were an early sect , and as early as they make him . but saith he , this name was given to the first christians , because of their poverty , according to the signification of the word . a. then indeed st. john was in the wrong for writing against these first christians , whom st. paul refers to , as our author would have us understand , cor. . . or at least , all those fathers were mistaken that would have st. john write against the heresy of the ebionites , or that reckon that among the number of heresies . for what heresy is there in simple poverty ? but if they that would have the name an appellative , say it was not because of their poverty , but because they thought , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , poorly and meanly of our saviour , as they would have him the son of joseph and mary , as some of them ; or of mary , as others ; but all of them agreeing that he was a mere man. so eusebius . what if ebion at last is found to be a person ? so it 's affirmed by tertullian , praescript . c. , &c. hieron . in isai. c. , & . hilarius epist. de trin. l. . origen in matth. , &c. so epiphanius expresly , ebionites were so called from ebion ; whose followers , saith he , would be so called from their being poor like the apostles : but , saith that father , this is a fiction of their own ; for ebion was a proper name . as for cerinthus , all that he has to say , is , that the gospel of st. john could not be wrote against cerinthus , because cerinthus was said to be author of it . but this is to reason about matter of fact. it 's plain , the ancients , to whom our author appeals , did assert , that it was written against cerinthus ; and it 's as plain , that cerinthus held these opinions , against which st. john is supposed by them to have written . to which he has nothing to reply , but that cerinthus is said to be the author of it ; but that i have already consider'd before . thus far then , i hope , 't is pretty evident , that there are historians and ancient historians , that do assign the same historical occasion of st. john's writings , as is assigned by his grace . but it 's likely he will reply , that these words of his , no historian , and to be sure no ancient historian ever assigns that occasion mentioned by his grace , are to be limited to the gnosticks . whatever he may say , yet i doubt few readers will suppose it ; for he has so artificially mingled all these together , that what he affirms may be applied to all ; and yet , it examined , he can restrain it to this or that particular . and therefore , that i may shew how little he is acquainted with this argument , or how little he consults truth and candor in it , i shall consider it with respect to the gnosticks . he cannot deny , but that the terms , word , light , fulness , only begotten , are the phraseology of the gnosticks , or else he must never have read irenaeus ; which also are used by st. john. now the question will be , whether st. john hath used them by chance , as our author imagines ? or that in opposition to these dreams , st. john shews all these titles did truly belong to our saviour , and to which there is a perpetual allusion , as his grace affirms . i verily believe , that if a gnostick had accidentally light upon that chapter , as the platonick amelius is said to have done , he would no less have been convinced there was this allusion to their hypothesis , than that philosopher was that the evangelist did platonize . hence it was , that the following gnosticks would have confirmed their conjugations and eons from thence . but saith he , it was below the gravity of the apostle to confute the wild gnosticks , and their chimerical eons . why so ? when this sect so far prevailed , that during the lives of the apostles , it grew to a great height , to the great prejudice and disturbance of the christian religion , as his grace observes ; for whose purity and preservation it became even this great evangelist to be concerned . and tho our sage philosopher may call them , chimaera's and sickly dreams , ( as in truth they were ) and so too trivial a subject for the apostolical pen to write of ; yet , when we consider how far those heresies spread , how long they continued , and what mischief they did ( as may be seen in irenaeus , tertullian , epiphanius , &c. ) we may agree to what epiphanius saith upon this occasion . neither , saith he , let any one contemn these dogmata , as full of folly ; for foolish people are perswaded by foolish things . nay , prudent persons may decline from the right way , if the mind be not exercised in the way of truth ; as that father gives an instance of himself , when likely to be perverted by the gnosticks . but lastly , saith our author , i am of opinion , that there is no historian , i 'am sure no ancient historian , who assigns the historical occasion of st. john ' s writings , even the gnosticks and their eons , mentioned by his grace . i answer , that what has been before said is sufficient , when there is a perpetual allusion to the phrase and opinions of the gnosticks ; and very often in the apostolical epistles , as has been observed by many learned persons . but to put this past dispute , besides what is elsewhere , let our author turn to irenaeus , and he will find that ancient author expresly affirming , that st john wrote his gospel against the error of cerinthus ; and a little after , that st. john took away all ground of dissention ; and by the words , the world was made by him , he confuted the gnosticks . so that if our author was of that opinion , it was without any ground . iv. it 's high time we now proceed to enquire into the sense of st. john. the ancient unitarians finding ( as i have observed ) the gospel of st. john not reconcilable to their opinion of christ's being a meer man ; like alexander , at once cut the gordian knot , which they could not fairly untie ; and rejected this and other pieces now attributed to that evangelist , as uncanonical and heretical . but an after-generation ( whom our author dignities also with the same title of ancient unitarians ) more wary than the former , seeing that author , whoever he was , to grow into credit among the other denominations of christians , were careful to shew them , that it was capable of a very allowable sense , as our author saith , p. . a. and this seems to be the case of socinus and this his defender , who must not quit st. john , and with the ancient unitarians , call his gospel the fiction and forgery of cerinthu , ( as our author saith they did ) for it has been too long in credit with the other denominations of christians , to admit of such despiteful usage and violence : and therefore they will undertake to shew them it 's capable of a very allowable sense ; but by such pitiful and wretched shifts , by such precarious and arbitrary suppositions , ( as his grace rightly terms them ) and an invention which no indifferent reader of st. john , that had not been prepossessed and biass'd by some violent prejudice , would ever have thought of , p. , , &c. and this will appear , if we try it by any of those ways by which the sense of an author is to be obtained ; such as the occasion , the phraseology , the scope , design and context . as for the occasion , if the authors alledged above , are of any authority , it 's so far unquestionable . as for the phraseology , that is to be understood by the common use of the words , or the subject , or science they relate to ; and accordingly were these phrases in st. john applied in their proper and ordinary signification , as not only the orthodox christians , but even the arians , and amelius the platonist did understand them , ( as his grace observes from eusebius ) and our author is forced to confess as much ; for in the account he gives of the historical occasion ( viz. of socinus's new project ) he thus introduces it , socinus finding it to be the first of all god's declarations , i am the lord thy god. &c. he understood in the beginning , to be in the beginning of the gospel state ; and the word was a god in a sense of office ; and the world he made , a spiritual world. now what is this , but to carry off the words from a plain literal to a figurative sense , and so to acknowledge their doctrine is not favoured by the phraseology of it ? but supposing it to be so , yet , saith our author , socinus observed , that the scriptures abound with such metaphors and figures even when they speak of god , as when god is said to have eyes , arms and bowels , &c. to denote the sight , power and mercies of god. p. . a. it 's granted ; but withal , as he saith , the scriptures therein trust to the judgment of the most common readers , and question not but the most ordinary capacity will so understand them . but then how comes this to pass , that from the time of st. john downwards , not the most common and ordinary , nay , the most accurate readers , and extraordinary capacities , were ever so happy as to make this discovery before the fortunate socinus ? and why were not they as well able to find out in this discourse of st. john the ministerial deity of our saviour , the beginning of the gospel state , and the spiritual world , ( the only key , it seems , to unlock the sense of that divine writer ) as they were by the hands , eyes and bowels of god , to understand his power , sight and mercies ? it 's evident that the most ordinary capacities did , generally speaking , by these corporeal members , understand the abovesaid attributes of the deity to be described . and it is also evident that for socinus's explication of that evangelist , the most famed expositors , and much more common readers , no more thought of it , than the ancient navigators did dream of that new world , which columbus two ages ago was so happy as to discover . so that it evidently appears , that there is not the same reason to interpret the phrases , in the beginning , and the word was god , and all things were made by him , in a metaphorical and figurative sense , as there is for the understanding the corporeal organs of speech and action , &c. after that manner , when applied to god : but that rather they must be understood properly and literally , as the orthodox , the arians , and all others have understood , and his grace has expounded them . but hold , saith our author , ' his grace himself , when he comes to interpret the particular expressions , can raise them no higher than arianism , ( viz. that the son was generated some time before the world ) though he alledged them to prove trinitarianism . p. . b. well , supposing this , yet if his exposition hold so far good , the socinian hypothesis , that will not allow our saviour to have any existence before his nativity of the virgin mary , will then be utterly overthrown . but what doth our author mean ? when he affirms or denies , as he pleases , what irenaeus , eusebius and epiphanius say ; they are books few understand , and fewer have : but methinks he should be a little more cautious when he uses the same liberty in a book published but the last year , and that has the good hap to be generally well received and read . how then can he say that his grace can raise - the expressions no higher than arianism ? when it 's the first of his corollaries , viz. the word here described by st. john , is not a creature . and then follows , this conclusion is directly against the arians , who affirmed that the son of god was a creature . p. . and there is not a branch of those verses which the archbishop doth not alike interpret . thus he saith of christ the word , that is , the eternal son of god. p. , . in the beginning , that is , he did exist before any thing was made , and consequently is without beginning , and eternal . p. , &c. was god , that is , from all eternity . p. , &c. but perhaps , he will say , this his grace has attempted , but not prov'd . that remains to be tried by what he has to object against it ; and then he only offers somewhat as a reply to his graces's exposition of the phrase , in the beginning , leaving all the rest that was said in exposition and defence of the other phrases of the evangelist , to continue as they were ; and if we may judge of what he could have said of the rest , by what he has said of this , it must needs have been very insignificant : for thus he argues . . in the beginning , is interpreted without beginning , which two are distinctly contrary . p. b. a. i answer ; this is not directly laid down as the interpretation of that phrase , but is rather the consequence of what his grace had said just before , as the preceding quotation shews , in the beginning , that is , he did exist before any thing was made , and consequently is without beginning , and eternal . . granting he had thus explain'd the phrase , in the beginning , to be without beginning , yet they are not directly contrary . to have a beginning , and to be without beginning , are directly contrary , and more than so , a contradiction . but to be in the beginning , and to be without beginning , are so far from being contrary , that they are very well consistent , for else god himself would not have been in the beginning . thus it is , gen. . . in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth . by which phrase is shewed , that the heaven and earth had a beginning , and so were not in the beginning , ( for then they had been before they began to be ) and so it could not be said , in the beginning were the heavens and the earth ; for then they had , as god , been without beginning . but it 's said , in the beginning god created them , that is , he that himself had no beginning gave a beginning to them . after this manner doth the wi●●man express it , in the place quoted by his grace , on this occasion , the lord possessed me [ wisdom ] in the beginning of his way , before his works of old . i was set up from everlasting , from the beginning , or ever the earth was , prov. . , . so that to be in the beginning , was to be before his works of old ; to be without a beginning , and from everlasting . . he objects , though he [ archbishop ] cannot find the coeternity in the words of st. john , yet he can interpret his own interpretation of his words , so as to make out the coeternity : for he saith , in the beginning , that is , the son-already was , when things began to be ; and by consequence , the son was without a beginning ; for that which was never made , could have no beginning of its being . and then he smartly returns upon him , how , sir , is that a good consequence , or any consequence at all ? for supposing the son was when the world began to be , which is not yet six thousand years ago , will it follow , that therefore he was absolutely without a beginning , or was never made ? &c. answ. if his grace had left this consequence to stand upon its own foot , without offering any proof for it ; yet any one but competently acquainted with the scripture-phraseology , would not have questioned the reason and force of it ; and if not with respect to his adversary , yet for a salvo to his own ignorance , would have forbore his how , sir , is that a good consequence , or any consequence at all ? but i much question his ignorance ; for his cautious adversary , that had been us'd to write with a due guard as well as strength , took care to prevent this objection , and fortify his consequence with the best authority , that of scripture . for thus he goes on immediately after the words quoted by this author , ( and so he is the more inexcusable ) the son already was when things began to be , and consequently is without beginning , &c. and so the jews used to describe eternity , before the world was , and before the foundation of the world , as also in several places of the new testament . and so likewise solomon describes the eternity of wisdom , the lord , says he , possessed me in the beginning of his way , before his works of old , &c. so that if the consequence be not good , or if it be no consequence at all , the scripture is to be blamed , and not his grace for following it in a line of argumentation . according to the scripture way of speaking , that which was before the world , is accounted eternal : and therefore what was in the beginning had no beginning ; and so the whole cause of arianism , that would have christ to be part of the creation , though before the world was , must unavoidably miscarry ; which was the case in hand , and what his grace undertook to prove . but this was fit to be conceal'd ; for otherwise our author would have had as little to say to the archbishop's explication of the phrase , in the beginning , as he has to the other phrases of the evangelist . therefore he chuses rather to wind off with a bare repetition or two , to the socinian hypothesis , to try whether he can with better success encounter his adversary upon his own principles , than upon those of the arian . p. . a. b. socinus being a person of a sharp and piercing wit , soon perceived that the arian scheme was not consistent with st. john ; for since there was nothing in the world but creator and creature , that which was the creator ( as the arians did admit the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or word to be , and as st. john's words , if literally understood , do import ) could not be the creature . and therefore , either he must , with our author's ancient vnitarians , forgo st. john's authority , or find out some other explication than had yet been thought of ; and that constrain'd him to fly to a ministerial god , and a spiritual world , as the archbishop had shewed , sermon ii. all that our author has to say upon the socinian account , is with reference to a double charge brought against it ; and that is , the unreasonableness and the novelty of this explication . as to the first of these , his grace saith , sermon ii. p. . according to this rate of liberty in interpreting scripture , it will signify very little or nothing , when any person or party is concerned , to oppose any doctrine contained in it ; and the plainest texts for any article of faith , how fundamental and necessary soever , may by the same arts and ways of interpretation be eluded and rendred utterly ineffectual for the establishing of it . for example , if any man had a mind to call in question that article of the creed , concerning the creation of the world , why might he not , according to socinus his way of interpreting st. john , understand the first chapter of genesis concerning the beginning of the mosaical dispensation ; and interpret the creation of the heaven and the earth , to be the institution of the jewish polity and religion , as by the new heavens and the new earth , they pretend to be understood the new state of things under the gospel , &c. it is certain that it was not phrase of st. john misled socinus , or gave him any occasion for his novel interpretation , but a pre-conceived principle ( as has been before observed ) ; for indeed the phrase of st. john bears such a conformity to that of the first of genesis , that one seems to be a key to the other ; and in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth , is so like to in the beginning was the word , — and all things were made by him ; that one is naturally led to think that as they in words seem to relate to the same state of things , so that the word that thus was in the beginning , and made all things , was truly god ; and that the whole phraseology of it is as properly and literally to be understood in st. john , as in genesis ; and that the one can no more admit of a moral and allegorical interpretation , than the other . this is so pertinently alledged by his grace , and the parallel so lively represented by the bishop of worcester , in a discourse there referred to , that our author seems perfectly at a loss whether to grant or deny it ; and so from admitting the case as it is proposed , would advance another scheme of it ; for thus he saith , ' let his grace put the case , as it usually is , and i am content to join issue with him upon the instance he hath here given . the first chapter of st. john speaks of a certain person , namely of the lord christ , who is confess'd to have been a man , and yet it saith of him , all things were made by him , — so if the first chapter of genesis imputed the creation there spoken of to moses ; if it said , in the beginning moses created the heavens and the earth , it would be not only absurd , but absolutely necessary , to interpret the chapter allegorically and figuratively ; and to say that the heavens and earth are the jewish polity and religion , the church and the discipline thereof , &c. now this answer of his contains somewhat absurd , somewhat untrue , and is also besides the case . . it contains somewhat absurd , which is , to conceive that it 's possible for moses an inspired writer , to have delivered himself after that manner ; and that when he was to write of the first institution of the jewish polity and religion , he should thus describe it , in the beginning moses created the heaven and the earth ; and the earth was without form , &c. and moses said , let there be light and there was light , &c. and yet our author , to salve socinus's wild interpretation of st. john , is contented to grant this ; we , saith he , say it , we affirm it , that if the first chapter of genesis imputed the creation to moses , it ought to be so interpreted . . it contains somewhat untrue , as when to make out his parallel , he saith , the first chapter of st. john speaks of a certain person the lord christ , who is confessed to have been a man , and yet it saith of him , all things were made by him . for he knows very well , that the person there spoken of , is not confessed by any of his adversaries to have been a man , when that is spoken of him , that all things were made by him . for then he was the logos , the word , the only begotten son of god ; and was not a man , or made flesh , till about four thousand years after the creation . . the case as he puts it , is not the case put by the archbishop ; which was to this effect , supposing such a one as spinosa , that would have the world not to be created , but to have been ab aeterno , finding the book of genesis to be in such credit with his countrymen the jews , and the several denominations of christians , that it was not to be gainsaid ; he is therefore careful ( as our author saith some of the ancient unitarians were in the case of st. john's gospel ) to shew that it is capable of another and an allowable sence ; and so in order to their satisfaction expounds it , of the jewish polity and religion , of spiritual heavens , and an intellectual light ( in our author's phrase ) . now the question upon this is , whether spinosa might not as speciously thus expound the first of genesis for the advantage of his hypothesis , as socinus did the first of john to serve his design ? and that any one that compares the one with the other , genesis and st. john , will be able to discern . indeed as absurd as the supposition of his concerning moses is , it might as allowably be said of him , as christ the word have that said of him in st. john , if the word was no more than moses , a ministerial and temporary god , and had no more been in the beginning than moses . and then the book of genesis might as well have begun in the same phrase with moses , as st. john with the word ; after this manner , in the beginning was moses , and moses was with god , and moses was god [ or a god , as he will have it ] . the same was in the beginning with god. all things were made by him , and without him was not any thing made that was made . such pitiful and sorry shifts are those drove to that first resolve upon an hypothesis , and then are to seek how to maintain and defend it . the only point remaining with our author is , that the evangelist , who was a jew , speaks here of the messias , in the usual stile and language of the jews , who were want to say , and say it in almost all their ancient books , that the messias should make a new world , he should abolish paganism and idolatry from among the nations ; and thereby ( as the prophets also speak ) create a new heaven and a new earth . answ. i acknowledge the scripture sometimes calls a political or moral change in a church or people , by the term of new heavens and new earth : but , in our author's way of speaking , it trusts to the reader 's judgment and common sense , in a matter that it 's not well possible for him to doubt in , or to question what are the heavens and earth there spoken of , as isaiah . , . . . peter . . &c. but here is no intimation given in the evangelist , that the phrases should be translated from a natural to a spiritual sence ; nor can it possibly be without great violence , as their own explication of it will shew : for they are forced to understand christ to be personally the word in one clause , and the gospel to be the word in the other , as socinus doth , in the beginning was the word , christ ; and the word , that is the gospel , was with god. or for the avoiding of that difficulty , others of them make christ to ascend actually , personally , and bodily into heaven before his ministry ( though the scripture speaks not one word of it ) that they may put a colour upon the phrase ; the word was with god , as his grace has shewed sermon ii. p. . of which more anon . but now if we take the words in their natural and proper sence , there are several other places to confirm it , as his grace has shewed , p. , &c. and which it shall suffice for the present to refer to . the next thing to be considered is , the novelty of this exposition of st. john by socinus , of which saith the archbishop , it is quite to another sense , and such as by their own confession was never mentioned , nor i believe thought of by any christian writer whatsoever before him . sermon ii. p. . which he more largely prosecutes , p. , &c. what saith our author to this ? suppose this ; why may we not own that time and long consideration do improve all sorts of sciences , and every part of learning , whether divine or humane ? i do not think it to be any diminution of socinus , that it may said of him , and of this context , he hath rescued it from that darkness in which it long lay . a. this observation of his had in reason been prevented , if he had well weighed what his grace had said upon it , who thus pursues his argument . . that the literal sense was so obvious , that the orthodox , and even the arians and platonists ( as amelius ) agreed in it . but here our author , like a flying tartar that dares not in a pursuit look behind him , throws a spiteful dart at his adversary . as to friend amelius , i think it sufficient to say , that the credit of the trinitarian cause runs very low ; when an uncertain tale of an obscure platonist , of no reputation either for learning or wit , is made to be a good part of the proof that can be alledged for these doctrines . this is spoke at all adventures ; for if he had read eusebius * upon it , he would have found the platonist to have deserv'd a better character , and neither the person to be so obscure , nor the relation of it such an uncertain tale , as he would represent it † . but he that can make historical occasions out of propositions , and will prove matter of fact by reasoning upon it without authority , may be allowed to make characters at his pleasure , and stamp what he will upon a quotation . let him however take or refuse friend amelius , it 's a small part of the proof depends upon that tale ; the use made of that in concurrence with the judgment of the orthodox and arians , was , that not one of them ever imagined that there was any other world alluded to in that place , than the natural and material world , nor other beginning than that of the creation . . his grace goes on ; surely it ought to be very considerable in this case , that the most ancient christian writers , ignatius , justin martyr , &c. and even origen himself , are most express and positive in this matter , &c. and if this interpretation of socinus be true , it 's almost incredible that those who lived so very near st. john's time , and were most likely to know his meaning , should so widely mistake it . and then that the whole christan world should for so many ages together be deceived in the ground of so important an article of the faith ; and that no man did understand this passage of st. john aright before socinus . this very consideration alone , if there were no other , were sufficient to stagger any prudent man's belief of this misrepresentation . . and as his grace goes on , that which makes the matter much worse , is , that the religion which was particularly design'd to overthrow polytheism , and the belief of more gods , hath according to them been so ill taught and understood by christians for so many ages together , and almost from the beginning of christianity , as does necessarily infer a plurality of gods. an inconvenience so great , as no cause , how plausible soever it may otherwise appear , is able to stand under the weight of it , p. . and which the reader may there see admirably enforced . for which reasons it cannot well be suppos'd , that either time or long consideration , would place a man in so advantagious circumstances , that he should beat out that track , which all christians for years together , were not able before him to descry . but after all , this shall be no diminution to socinus , as our author will have it . but tho in words he will not allow it a diminution , yet he in fact betrays it ; and after all , is not willing to own the charge . for thus he argues , why doth his grace say , that not only all the fathers , but all christians have for this fifteen ages , agreed in his interpretation of this context ? have there been no christians in the world for years , but only the arians and trinitarians ? this is a little too gross , for he knows full well , that this is not asserted by the archbishop ; therefore he makes another attempt . or was socinus the first ( for that ( it may be ) was his grace's meaning ) who departed from the arian and trinitarian sense of the context ? what an obscure writer doth he make his grace to be , when he is , as it were , forced to come again and again upon the enquiry , and at length to conclude with , it may be it was his meaning ? and yet at last he is so unfortunate as to mistake it . for his grace doth no more say , that socinus was the first man that departed from the arian and trinitarian sense of the context , than he saith , that not only the fathers , but all christians have for fifteen ages agreed in it . for he knew full well , that there were cerinthians , and ebioniter , and photinians , and others , that went under the general name of christians , that differ'd as well from the arians as the orthodox , and would allow our saviour no other existence , than he had as the son of mary , and so could not with consistence to their principle , expound st. john , as the orthodox and arians expounded him . but let his grace speak for himself , viz. not only all the ancient fathers of the christian church , but , so far as i can find , all interpreters whatsoever for fifteen hundred years together did understand this passage of st. john in a quite different sense , [ from socinus ] namely of the creation of the material , and not of the renovation of the moral world. and however our author would evade and molify it , his grace had proved it beyond contradiction by the confession of his great oracle socinus , and his advocate schlictingius , that own the true sense of these words was never before rightly explained * . and indeed , what our author himself alledges , is a tacit confession of it ; for he produces nothing from paulus or photinus , or the ancient vnitarians , of the word that was god by office , or of the beginning of a gospel state that word did exist in , or of a spiritual world he made , or of the word 's being with god in the revelation of the gospel , or of the personal word 's being with god before his ministry to receive that revelation : but on the contrary , he tells us that according to them , the word was god , as his generation was divine , and was from the beginning with god , in god's decree and intention ; and that the world was not made by him , but for him ; a quite different explication from that of socinus . thus far then it 's evident , that his grace has sufficiently shew'd the novelty of the socinian explication of st. john's gospel . this was a tender point , and what our author had no mind to touch upon , but something must be said , for else the cause would have suffer'd , and he had lost the opportunity of shewing his reading about their patriarch paulus , and their metropolitan photinus , ( titles , it seems , owned in their commonwealth of learning ) and the whole provinces possessed by their followers , p. . but if our author is of any credit , they did not only possess whole provinces , but ages too , the two first undoubtedly ( as he suggests ) . and saith he , we are ready to dispute it in the presence of the learned world , that the fathers mentioned by his grace were less of the mind of the trinitarians , than of ours . they held the doctrine that was afterwards called arianism , p. . b. . a. the first false step he makes , is , that he takes it for granted , that his grace allows the two first ages of christianity to be for the socinians , or at least not against them . for , saith he , if of seventeen ages , we have ( as we have undoubtedly have ) the two first , much good may do his grace with the other fifteen . he must not deny us the two , nay , the three first , generally speaking . it seems his grace must not , nor indeed can deny him if he insists only upon the last fifteen ages as his period , for then he quits the two first . but now any indifferent reader will soon see , that when his grace speaks of fifteen hundred years , it 's with respect to the ages intercurrent from the apostles to the time of socinus , whose exposition he charges with novelty . [ so p. , , &c. ] and who lived in the last century . the second false step , is his way of proof , which is this , we will [ saith he ] wrest it from all the world , that the apostolick creed , which was the only creed of the three first ages , is wholly vnitarian , and perfectly contradicts that interpretation of the beginning of st. john's gospel , which his grace seeks to advance , p. . how that is , we must seek further , viz. p. . b. where he takes it up again . in the apostles creed , the lord christ is uncontestably spoken of , as having no existence before he was generated in the womb of the blessed mary , by the spirit of god. not to insist upon that , that it was the only creed of the three first ages , it will require a more than an obstinate resolution to wrest it out of the possession of the trinitarians , who both from the distribution of the creed under its three general heads , do assert a trinity , and from the character given to our saviour of being the only son of god , do maintain his divinity . but for this , being he has offer'd no proof , i shall refer him to bishop pierson upon that point , which he has at large explained and defended . . his next false step is , that whereas his grace particularly names ignatius , justin , athenagoras , irenaeus , tertullian , and origen , as of the same mind with himself ; this author affirms , that contrariwise they held the arian doctrine ; where yet he fails in his main point , which was to clear socinus's explication , and his doctrine , from novelty : but instead of that , all he attempts is to shew that the ancient fathers were for the arian doctrine ; which is to say they were not for the socinian : and yet even there he fails again ; as has abundantly been proved by dr. bull ; and which i shall look upon as unanswerable , till i see the book he promises us in answer to it . having all this while been employed in vindication of the authority of st. john's gospel against the ancient vnitarians that questioned it , and our author that proposes their arguments ; and in vindication of the orthodox exposition of it , against the arian on one side , and the novel one of socinus on the other ; i shall now proceed to the consideration of those texts of scripture which the archbishop occasionally made use of for the explication of st. john ; and they are , heb. . . and col. . . his grace has alledg'd heb. . . several times in his sermons , twice in his first , for the explication of st. john , and col. . . and thus far our author goes along with him in the bare quotation ; but he manifestly wrongs him , when he thus triumphs as he goes off from the text ; would a man build the belief of more gods than one , contrary to the whole current , and most express words of the rest of scripture , on a text so uncertain as this is ? p. . b. i say he manifestly wrongs him ; for he knows very well , that his grace agrees with the current and express words of scripture , in asserting the unity of the godhead ; and so could never attempt to build the belief of more gods than one , upon any text whatsoever , unless he would contradict himself . what is it then his grace alledges this text for ? why , it is to justify st. john , when he saith , that all things were made by the word ; and consequently the word that made all things must be god. the proposition is st. john's , the consequence is indeed his grace's , but what will necessarily follow , as he has proved it from heb. . . i perceive our author needs to be remembred upon occasion : for tho this is the use his grace makes of that quotation in sermon first , yet our author is to know there is a second sermon , where his grace doth not criticise upon words , and shew how they may be expounded this way and that way , and leave it , in our author's phrase an uncertain text ; but fully shews , that this verse , and col. . . must necessarily be understood of the old creation of the natural world and not of the moral world , and the renovation and reformation of the minds and manners of men by the gospel . and this he not only at large confirms , but also gives a particular answer to the comment of schlictingius and crellius upon it ; sermon ii. p , &c. now our author in reason should have interposed to the behalf of these his deserted friends , and have given a just reply to their adversary ; but his business is rather to propose , and repeat , and make some sudden fallies , than grapple with his opponent , and come to downright blows . the first adventure he makes is , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we render worlds , more usually and properly signifies ages ; and it s so translated by st. jerom ; and therefore divers of the most learned criticks understand this text of the gospel ages ; of which the lord christ is ( under god ) the undoubted author . a. it seems the learned criticks go different ways , and our author dares not lay too much on their side , that understand this of the gospel-ages ; for he saw that the phrase , he made the ages , was harsh , and as unusual as it is usual for the greek word to signify ages : and which is worse , that the word ages in the jewish and scripture-stile , ordinarily signifying the age before and the age under the messias , it must follow , that the lord christ must be the undoubted author of both the ages ; of that from the foundation of the world to the gospel , as well as that from the gospel to the end of the world : and if so , he must have been existent before the ages ; for else how could he be the author of them ? this he that has been so conversant in the learned criticks of the trinitarians , cannot be ignorant of : and because i have not a list of them at hand , i shall for the present refer him to dr. hammond on luke . p. &c. whether he foresaw this or no , i cannot divine ; but however , he has another answer in reserve . for thus he goes on ; but , saith he , let us say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here is world , yet grotius gives very good reasons why we ought to render the word thus , for whom he made the worlds ; i. e. god made the world for the messias , or with intention to subject it to him in the fulness of time . a. but supposing it may be so rendred , yet there is no such salvo for verse . where it 's said of christ , ( as the archbishop hath unanswerably proved ) thou , lord , in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth , &c. . the greek phrase , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is the very same with what is used , john . . all things were made by him ; where the ordinary translation is allowed ; and as far as the phrase will go , it may as properly be applied to our saviour , as the efficient , as the final cause , i. e. that the world was made by him , as for him : and that it is here to be understood of the former , his grace has shew'd . . the apostle , col. . . uses these two distinctly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by him ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for him . but to this our author has somewhat to say . for the archbishop having made use of that place of st. paul to confirm what he had before produced out of st. john , the opponent thinks himself bound in honour to attack him : but in his usual way : for whereas his grace had spent about twelve pages in both his sermons upon the explication of this text , and in answer to the most considerable objection against it ; our author replies , he urgeth that text. — he observes moreover , that in the foregoing verse the lord christ is called the first-born of every creature . and he seeks to prove , i think he has proved it , that first-born here is as much as to say heir or lord of every creature . p. . b. a. he speaks as coldly , as if he durst not trust his reader with his adversary's arguments , or so much as suggest for what reasons or upon what grounds the archbishop urged that text. only he grants , that when his grace had shewed that by first-born was principally meant an heir , he softly answers , i think he has proved it . and if he has , he has so far wrested none of the least of the texts produced both by the arians and socinians , out of their hands . arebb . p. , . but he goes on , if i may call omitting so . i will omit , that the greater number of criticks and more learned interpreters , of his grace's own party , and among them , athanasius himself , translate and interpret that text , not of real creating , but of the modelling of all things . a. . i hope he will admit those to be criticks that are in the critici sacri , or those whom mr. pool has inserted into his synopsis ; but if we may pass a judgment upon the learned i●erpreters by them , we shall be far from finding a number , and i believe it will be a number of one , if he will be so favourable to us as to allow grotius to be one of his grace's party . as for athanasius , i had the curiosity to consult him ( though it 's too hard a task to put upon his reader to turn over two folios to search for a quotation ) but could find no such explication of the apostle , as he suggests . but on the contrary , from that place he shews that all things were created by him , and so he could not be a creature . so in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and his synod . nicenae decret . a. . he saith he will omit this , that is , as i thought , give it up ; but i find rather it is that he will not be obliged to defend it : he finds the archbishop had made the point of a moral creation a little too hot to be maintain'd ; but being it 's what he himself has a great liking to , he goes on to say all he can say , in hopes his reader may think as favourably of it as himself . but he comes off as to himself , as i said , i will not insist on this concession . he therefore comes to another retrenchment , and that is the account given of it by st. chrysostom ( as he will have it ) in the opus imperfectum , who reads it thus ; for him were all things created . so saith he , the sense is , all things were originally created by god for the lord christ ; namely , to subject them , in the fulness of time , to him , and his law. a. as for what he saith of the opus imperfectum of st. chrysostom , whoever was the author of it , it 's granted by the learned that it is not st. chrysostom's . but let it be whose it will , i am pretty confident that there is no such exposition of that phrase in the book ( though it consists of homilies . ) and besides the turning it over , i am confirm'd in it from what is said there , homil. . upon that , who is my mother , &c. i , who before the constitution of the world , created the world , know no such worldly parents , &c. indeed this version of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for him , is merely to serve the hypothesis that he is advancing . for when he can apply it to a moral creation , he admits it , as john . . and so it 's necessary to be understood here , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by him to reconcile all things to himself . and accordingly as the apostle begins , so he ends the verse with the same phrase ; by him were all things created ; and as one would think to prevent all cavil , uses phrases as distinct as the efficient and final cause , for so he closes the verse , all things were created by him , and for him ; by him , as the efficient ; and for him , as the final cause . but here our author would fain find out an evasion , and that is by translating 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to him ; and then it shall be , all things were created for his use , and to his service . and if any one should ask what is the difference ? he answers immediatly , that the latter , to his service , is exegetical and explanatory of the former , for his use . this , he saith , is probably design'd by the greek , and yet he knows how ( by a peculiar rule of logick ) to crowd more into the conclusion than is in the premisses , and out of what , in his own opinion , is but probable , to infer a necessity ; for thus he concludes , the greek word being probably design'd as exegetical : therefore the sense of necessity is , for him , and to him , i.e. for his use , and to his service . just as if i should say , it 's probable that he never read the opus imperfectum , that calls it st. chrysostom's ; and therefore it 's certain he has not . to conclude , tho he would as to this text fairly , if he can , get rid of this moral creation , and athanasian spiritual modelling of things , for a reason he knows ; yet he is still within the inchanted circle ; for at the last his probable explication leaves him there ; and what was it else when he says , all things were originally created by god for the lord christ , namely , to subject them in the fulness of time to him , and his laws ? and how doth that differ from the modelling and changing all things in heaven and earth , to a new and better estate ? on the earth , by abolishing paganism , and idolatry , &c. and in heaven , angels and heavenly powers being put under his direction , &c. as he tells us in the column of those things that are omitted . lastly , it 's not probable that his is the just explication of this place , and that for a reason or two . . because the apostle discourses this afterwards , v. . having made peace through the blood of his cross , by him to reconcile all things to himself ; by him , i say , whether they be things in earth , or things in heaven . for the clearer understanding of which , i shall take liberty to set before the reader the connexion of a few verses . the apostle , v. speaking of our saviour , in whom we have redemption through his blood , &c. proceeds to shew who this redeemer was , and that in a two-fold capacity . first , in respect of his divine nature , who is the image of god , the first-born or heir of the whole creation : and then gives the reason of such his preheminence , and why he bestows so great a title upon him ; and that is v. , . for by him were all things created , &c. from thence he proceeds to discourse of him as to his human nature , and the station he is in , v. . and he is the head of the body &c. and this done v. . he returns to the point where he set forth , v. . and accordingly his lordship's explication is very easy and natural , p. . who is the image of god , the heir and lord of the whole creation ; for by him all things were created . . this author's account of this place is not probable ; for christ's being the head over all things , was not till his death and resurrection , when his mediatory kingdom began ; whereas our author says , that all things were originally created by god for the lord christ ; and without doubt as for his use and to his service , so for the advantage of them that were under his government and direction . but what a v●st solitude was there , a chasm of years before his birth and being ? and in what a condition was the whole world of intelligent beings , till our saviours resurrection and ascension ? what service could he challenge from them , when he himself lay in the embrio of nothing ? and what advantage could they have from him that was to come into the world for the redemption of mankind , , &c. years after ? where was the paganism and idolatry he in that dismal interval abolished ? where the angels and heavenly powers that were put under his direction , and by him employed in defence and succor of the faithful ? what was it to those unhappy souls , born so many ages before his time , under the constellation of paganism and idolatry , that some thousands or hundreds of years hence should arise the lord christ , who in the fulness of time was to be actually set above all thrones and dominions , &c. and in whom as in their head , all things should be united and consist ? as our author words it . of the pre-existence of our saviour . that the word described by st. john had an existence before his incarnation , and his being born of the virgin , was a conclusion his grace inferred from the phrase , in the beginning . serm. . this he confirmed by several texts of scripture , which he ranked under the two following heads . serm. . p. . . those which expresly assert the son of god to have been , and to have been in heaven with god , and partaker with him in his glory , before his incarnation and appearance in the world. . those which affirm that the world and all creatures were made by him . of the first sort are joh. . . . . . . . . . . . . joh. . . in which it 's said of our saviour , that he came down from heaven , was with god , was before abraham ; that he had a glory with the father before the world was . to those which say our saviour was in heaven , and came down from heaven , our author returns some general answers , ( as for method's sake i shall consider them . ) first , he answers in general , that these texts , in their most literal sense , amount to no more than this , that the lord christ is a messenger , really come forth from god to men . as much is true of every prophet , and the very same is used concerning st. john baptist , joh. . . there was a man sent from god , whose name was john. answ. . if these texts amount to no more than this , that the lord christ is a messenger from god to men , then can no more be concluded from thence , than that he was no more a prophet , and no more with god , and no more sent from god , than other prophets , or than john the baptist. and if as much as this is true of every prophet , then it may be said of every prophet , and of john the baptist as well as our saviour , that he ascended into heaven , and came down from heaven , and was with god , and had a glory with him before the world was , &c. but where do we find the scripture to express it self after this manner of any but our saviour , no not of moses , as much a friend of god , and conversant with him , as he is affirmed to be ? . if these texts amount to no more than this , that christ is a messenger from god to men , then how will our author be able to make use of any of these texts for that new doctrine of theirs , concerning christ's ascension into heaven , before he began his ministry ? for if as much is true of every prophet , then our saviour no more ascended than other prophets ; and then what becomes of his express proof for such an assertion ? secondly , he answers again , how little these texts are to his grace's purpose , would have been obvious to every reader , if he had set down some few of the many texts which so plainly expound to us what is meant thereby . joh. . . i am not come of my self . joh. . . i am come in my father's name . joh. . . i came not of my self , he sent me . joh. . . my doctrine is not mine , but his that sent me , &c. a. these texts would have not been to his grace's purpose , if they prove no more than that our saviour was a messenger sent from god to men , and which is as true of every prophet . for if our saviour no more came from god than other prophets ( as far as these texts will then signify ) he was no more pre-existent than they . but these texts are to his purpose if they expresly say , that christ actually came down from heaven to declare the will of god to men ( as our author in the next paragraph , forgetting himself , doth affirm . ) for if that be allowed , then all the difficulties his grace has urged against their imaginary doctrine of our saviour's ascension into heaven , before his ministry , will return upon them , and require an answer . as for what he adds from these latter texts , would our saviour have said he came from god , is sent by god , to deliver a doctrine which is not the messenger 's , if he had himself pretended to be god ? a. this , i am sure is nothing to the purpose ; for what is this to the pre existence of our saviour , the present subject of the discourse ? but however , what inconsistence is there in this , for our saviour to say , the doctrine is not mine , but his that sent me , tho he himself be god , and partake of the same nature with the father , when he is the only begotten of the father , and was also man ? why is this any more inconsistent , than to have it said , that he is god , and yet the man christ jesus ; that he was in the beginning with god , and yet born in the fulness of time ; that he knew all things , john . . . . and yet knew not the time or day of judgment ? mark . , &c. these things are consistent upon the principles of the orthodox or trinitarians , that hold the word to be god and man ; but not upon theirs that hold , that he is man and not god. . he answers again in general , that his grace propounded to prove the pre-existence of our saviour , by the texts that expresly say our lord christ ascended into heaven before he began his ministry , and then came down from heaven to declare the will of god to men. that is , be propounds to prove the trinitarian doctrine , but really proves the doctrine of the unitarians . a. . if this be so , his grace was mightily mistaken , to attempt the proof of this point by such texts as expresly say the contrary . a great and inexcusable over-sight , if it were true . but where are those texts that expresly say , that our saviour ascended into heaven before his ministry ? it was a prejudice socinus would infuse into his reader , that there is but that one text of st. john . to prove the pre-existence of our saviour before his incarnation , which the archbishop has disproved , p. . but here it holds ; for his texts that he saith expresly prove what he asserts , shrink all into one , viz. no man hath ascended into heaven , but he that came down from heaven . . where is it expresly said in that , or any other text , that our saviour ascended into heaven before his ministry ? it is not so expresly said , that our saviour ascended into heaven , but that servetus understood it spiritually , and saith that it was so express'd , because his spirit was from the beginning in heaven , and that his words were heavenly . but it 's neither there , nor any where expresly said , that our saviour ascended into heaven before his ministry , and then came down from heaven to declare the will of god to men. that is wholly a fiction of a case , as his lordship has sufficiently proved . our author , indeed , would represent it , as if his grace had only found fault with them for this their opinion ; and after the having bestowed a few hard words upon it , and call'd it an arbitrary and precarious supposition , ( tho he himself understands the text in a literal sense ) should then give it up . but that this is a fiction of their own , i may say again , his lordship has sufficiently proved ; and so much the more reason have i now to say it , as his adversary has not dared so much as to take to task any one argument or paragraph relating to it . for with what strength doth his grace argue against it from the exact history of our saviour's life , from the importance of the matter ( if true ) , from the silence of the evangelists , and especially of st. john ? how doth he argue against it from the weakness of the socinian attempts to prove it , and for which in effect they have nothing to say ? how from the inconsistency of it with scripture ? and that whereas st. john saith , the word was in the beginning , and then was made flesh : they say , that he was first made flesh , and then a great while after was in the beginning with god. how , lastly , doth he argue from the disagreement in the several parts of this their interpretation ; as it may be worth the reader 's while himself to observe * ? all this our author has prudently pass'd over ; but that he may seem to say something , and have a fair opportunity to complement where he wants a reply ; he forms a question for his grace , ( for it 's a charge , and not a question , archbishop , p. , . ) he demands , saith he , when did this ascension of our saviour into heaven happen ? his grace had indeed charged it upon them , that they themselves cannot agree precisely when ; and without doubt he wanted a fair account of it . but our author unfortunately pitches upon that time for it , which his adversary had beforehand prevented . for thus he answers , st. john hath resolved this question in these words of his gospel , [ in the beginning the word was with god ] i. e. in the beginning of his ministry , just before be enter'd thereon ; the lord christ was with god by ascending ( as himself expresly and often saith ) into heaven . this account of it is very precise . but to this his grace had already made two exceptions . . that this is not consistent with their own explication of the phrase , in the beginning , that is to say , when the gospel first began to be published ; which was by authority from him ( he having ascended into heaven , and came from thence to declare the will of god to men , as our author saith ) but that was not began to be published , till after he had been with god ( in their sense . ) and therefore if the word was at all with the father , so as to ascend from earth to heaven , it must not have been in the beginning , but before the beginning . . he sheweth , this is not reconciliable to another opinion of theirs , which is , that christ was not god but by office and divine constitution , and that he was not so constituted and declared till after his resurection , and his being advanced to the right hand of god ; but if in the beginning , is in the beginning of the gospel-state , then the word was god in the same beginning that he was with god , and so must be god by office , before he enter'd upon his office of publick ministry , and consequently long before his resurrection . but if he was so constituted not till after his resurrection , he was not god in their sense of the beginning , and so consequently was not with god , nor did ascend into heaven before he began his ministry . so that there is no manner of proof , either for the matter , or the time of this legendary doctrine of theirs , concerning our saviour's ascension into heaven before he began his ministry , if the aforesaid arguments hold good . but that which our author presses most , ( without regarding the arguments against it ) is the literal sense of the phrase , no man hath ascended , &c. in which , he saith , the archbishop doth understand it . but this is no more true that his grace so understands it , than that it 's expresly and often said in scripture , that our saviour ascended into heaven before his ministry , ( as our author affirms ) unless it be when his grace undertakes to prove that such an ascension never was . but supposing it were literally to be understood , yet will it not serve their purpose . for then , according to the letter of it , our saviour must have come down from heaven before he ascended thither . if it had been worded , that no man hath come down from heaven , but he that hath ascended into heaven , then he would have ascended first , and after that have descended : but when it 's said , no man hath ascended into heaven , but he that came down from heaven , ( if the manner of speaking is to be our guide ) then he must have came down before he ascended , after the way the apostle speaks , ephes. . , . now that he ascended , what is it , but that he also descended first , &c. i say , the order of words then shews , that his descent must have been before his ascension ; which is diametrically opposite to the socinian hypothesis , and is not to be accommodated but by the orthodox sense of it , viz. that he that in the beginning was with god , and had a glory with the father before the world was , in the fulness of time was made flesh , and came down from heaven , to fulfil and declare the will of god to men . and then it orderly follows , no man hath so ascended into heaven , and no man hath been there to understand the will of the father , but he that first came down from heaven , and is in due time to ascend thither ; as if he had said , ( to transcribe the paraphrase of a very learned person ) from me alone are these things to be learned , for none can go up to heaven to fetch the knowledge of them from thence , but i came down from heaven to reveal the will of god * , &c. the second sort of texts which speak of our saviour's existence before his incarnation , are these , father glorify thou me with thine own self , with the glory which i had with thee before the world was , john . . and before abraham was , i am , &c. john . . to the first our author replies , that according to st. austin and grotius , this is to be understood of god's decree , after this manner , let me now actually receive that glory with they self , which i had with thee in thy decree and purpose before the world was . and if we may take his word , he saith , that he has sufficiently confirmed this interpretation in the second edition of his brief history of the unitarians . he very seasonably refers us to his second edition , ( which i have not seen ) for in the first it exceedingly wants some confirmation . all that he has to say there , is , that we in scripture are sometimes said to have that which we have in god's decree . from whence he infers , therefore so also we may understand , that christ had glory before the world was . an inference very cautiously worded , therefore we may understand , &c. and it was not without reason , as i shall immediately shew . a. . i grant that the scripture doth often represent things after this manner , so that that which is to be hereafter , is spok●n of as if it was actually present and existent , as isaiah . . he is despised and rejected of men . and in like manner we are reputed to have that which we have by promise , as in the place he quotes , cor. . . we have a building of god , &c. but then as decrees and promises do in the nature of them respect the future , so there must be some reason for this manner of speaking , which without such reason would be absurd . now , the reason of such forms of speech , is to represent the certainty of the thing , that it being thus appointed and promised by almighty god , it shall as certainly be fulfilled in its season , as if it was now actually present . but set aside such reason , and such forms of speech will be absurd ; as for example , if i should say , all generations that shall be to the worlds end are now in being , and have been ever since the world was . but there is no such reason for such an interpretation here , for this respects the time past . . tho we should be said to have that which we are decreed to have , yet we cannot be said to have it before the world was ; as for instance , we cannot be said to have a building of god before the world was ; for that is to have it before we were . we may be said by the foresaid prophetical scheme of speech to have what we that are in being , shall have in its proper time ; but we are not said to have it , or to have had it before the foundation of the world. god indeed may be said to give before the world , by virtue of his decree and intention so to do , because he always was , is , and ever will be , and to him all things are present in their causes , over which he has an absolute power . but tho we may be said to have , with respect to the time to come , as well as present ( in the cases aforesaid ) yet we cannot properly be , nor are in scripture said to have it before the world was , because we are born in the world. thus god may be said to give us grace or salvation before the world began ; in the place he cites , tim. . . but we are not said to have a building of god before the world was . and so when it 's said , father , glorify me with thine own self , with the glory which i had with thee before the world was ; as it doth suppose our saviour to have been in being , and to have had a glory with the father before the world , so he cannot be said to have it in decree before the world was . . and that the words are not capable of such an interpretation will further appear from the phrase , with thee , which answers to that which went before , with thine own self ; and if the latter doth signify the actual enjoyment of that glory , then so doth the former . indeed , the phrase with thine own self , and with thee , ( for they are both one ) doth suppose the person that is with god to be in being . as it was when god is said to be the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob ; thereby is implied , that those holy patriarchs are alive , according to our saviour's reasoning , god is not the god of the dead , but of the living , matth. . . and if to be the god of abraham , did imply that abraham was in being ; then surely , if it had been said of abraham , that he was with god , it must also imply that abraham actually was . for he could no more be said to be with god , and not be ; than god could be said to be his god , and he not alive . and accordingly it might as well be said of abraham , that god was his god in decree and intention , as abraham might be said to be with god , and yet be no otherwise so than in god's decree . so absurd is it , with our author , to allow our saviour to have had no being before the world was , and yet to say he was with god before the world , which is in the same breath to say he was not , and yet he was . a difficulty our author , with those he follows , found to be so great , that they chose rather to give a new interpretation of the phrase , in the beginning , john . . ( as has been before shew'd ) and so to allow the word to have then been actually with god ; rather than to maintain , as some others before did , that the word was with god in his decree , contrary to the plain and evident meaning of that phrase . . i may add , if the sense of this prayer of our saviour is , father , glorify me with thine own self , with the glory which i had with thee in thy decree and promise before the world was ; then ( according to what our saviour saith , ver . . the glory which thou hast given me , i have given them , the like glory being promised to and decreed for all the faithful ) every good man may use the same prayer with our saviour , and say , father , ●lorify me with thine own self , with the glory which i had with thee before the world was . but i suppose st. austin , ( who our author saith was for this decretal sense ) would not have presumed to do so . i confess i have done more than in strictness i was obliged to , when he refers us to another book of his , and to another edition of that book ; but i am apt to think this answer will serve for either meridian . the second text produced by the archbishop , is john . . before abraham was , i am : the obvious sense of which words ( saith his grace ) is , that he had a real existence before abraham was actually in being , p. . but on the contrary , the socinians say , that he was before abraham was , in the divine foreknowledge and decree . this his lordship took to task , and shewed , that this is nothing but what might have been said of any other man , and even of araham himself ; and that our saviour had then no preference or advantage above abraham . and then argues from the words i am , as the proper name of god , whereby is signified the eternal duration and permanency of his b●ing . which he confirms by several other places . to this our author has nothing to reply ; but would insinuate as if his grace had only proposed the place , without any manner of proof ; for after this ridiculous manner doth he represent it : his grace will not hear of this [ about the decree ] ; we cannot help it ; but we know the reason to be , because he taketh it as a ground of his interpretation of this text , that our saviour was ( not only in god's decree , but ) in actual existence before his progenitor abraham ; but that is the point which his grace had to prove , not to suppose as a ground of interpretation . this person writes , i perceive , for a party , and presumes his readers will never consult the books he pretends to answer ; for else he would not so boldly venture thus to impose upon the world , and to tell us that his grace only supposes , but does not prove what he proposes ; and accordingly he himself slips over the argument , and runs from it as far as he can . . he replies , here again i must mind his grace , that none of his proofs , in their utmost stretch , run higher than arianism . a. proofs : he should have call'd them suppositions , if he had not forgot himself . but what if those proofs run no higher than arianism ? they are sufficient : for all his grace was under any obligation at this time to prove , was our saviour's pre-existence , against the socinians , serm ii. p. , &c. ( having in his former sermon maintained the point of our saviour's deity , against the arians , &c. ) and if he has proved that , he has gained the point under consideration . all that our author has further to say , is , to give us his opinion of this text over and over , and ushers it in with a magisterial authority : but if we can , let us make both arians and trinitarians sensible what is the meaning of these words , before abraham was , i am , from the circumstances and context . but if i may not too much incur his displeasure , by laying aside his supposals for the present , i will venture to propose the case as the evangelist relates it , and then discourse with him upon it . in vers. . our saviour replied upon the jews , your father abraham rejoiced to see my day ; and he saw it and was glad . to this they captiously object , thou art not yet fifty years old , and hast thou seen abraham ? that is , was 't thou coexistent with him , and born in his time , who has been so long dead ? whom makest thou thy self ? [ ver . , . ] to this our saviour answers , verily , verily , i say unto you , before abraham was , i am . which text , according to our author , is elliptical and imperfect , and wants somewhat to supply it : which he thus attempts , i was long before abraham ' s time in the decrees and promises of god. now supposing it so to be , why must it thus be supplied ? o , saith he , it cannot be true in any other sense , being spoken of a son and dependant of abraham . supposing that to be spoke of such a one , why may it not as well fall upon the former as latter part of the clause , and so be read , before abraham was the father of the gentiles , ( signified in isaac ) i am , or i was in the world ? or why may it not be said , before abraham was , i was in being ? for though our saviour was a descendant of abraham according to the flesh , yet he was the begotten son of god ( as none of abraham's posterity was ) that was in the beginning , and before the world with god ; and so he might literally say before abraham was , i was or am . but supposing we admit his explication , that before abraham was , i was in god's decree . would this prove what was to be proved , that he that was not fifty years old , had seen abraham , or that he was co-existent with abraham ? suppose we take it as he would have it , independent of what it was to p●●●● what a mean 〈◊〉 was it for our saviour to alledge , i was 〈◊〉 abraham , namely , in god's decree ? for , might not the jews then reply , so abraham was before adam , and so both abraham and adam were before the world ? might they not say , so were we then before abraham ; abraham before himself , and we before we were they , might they not say , is any thing before another 〈◊〉 art thou before abraham , or abraham before us , since all would then be co-existent alike in decree , being the decrees are alike eternal ? might not our saviour as well have said , i have seen abraham , reserving to himself , in the book of genesis ; as say , before abraham was , i was , reserving to himself , in the book of god's decree ? lastly , if our saviour had said , before abraham was , i was in god's decree , or had been so understood , where was the blasphemy for which the jews would have stoned him ? it is apparent that the jews presently understood him being a title known to all , and known to belong only to god , as well known ( by reason of that noted place it relates to in exodus ) as jehovah , and so immediately they took up stones to cast at him . but his grace hath not so done with this text , but goes on to fortifie it with other parallel places , as to the phrase and signification , p. . as hebr. . . the same yesterday , to day , and for ever . and revelat. . , . i am alpha and omega , the beginning and the ending , which is , and which was , and which is to come , the almighty , rev. . , . this our author declines , and instead of proposing it as it lay in his grace's sermon , he takes up the latter of these places in the close of his discourse upon this head after this manner , the last of his grace ' s texts to prove the pre-existence and divinity of our saviour , is rev. . . p. . b. though out of its place , i am content to take it as he proposes it ; and especially because i may hope now , if ever , to make a convert of him ; for thus he answers , when his grace proves that these words are spoken , not of god , but of christ , i will thank him , and give him the cause . fairly offered , and fit to be accepted . in the first place , i take it for granted , that i need not remind him of what his grace has observed , that these expressions are the common description which the scripture gives of the eternity of god , whose being is commensurate to all the several respects of duration , past , present , and to come . for this is the reason why our author denies this to belong to our saviour , since that would be to ascribe such a being to him , as is commensurate to all these durations . therefore with his usual assurance , he affirms , that they are not spoken of our lord christ , seems to me as clear as meridian light , from what is said v. . from him which is , which was , and which is to come , and from jesus christ. where we see plainly , that jesus christ is distinguished as a different person from that almighty who is , and who was , and who is to come ; therefore he cannot be intended in the description , v. . answer . i suppose that he intends this as a general answer to the several places of the revelation quoted by his grace ; and then it 's as much as to say , that since jesus christ is distinguished from him who is , and was , and is to come , v. . therefore he cannot be intended at v. . nor . nor ch. . , . that is , that these expressions , which are the common description the scripture gives of the eternity of god , are never applied in any of those places to our saviour : but if it appears that they are at any time applied to our saviour , his argument is utterly ruined , and it will unanswerably follow , that if jesus christ is , and was , and is to come , then he is alike eternal as the father , and partaker of one and the same nature with him . . how doth it follow that jesus christ is distinguished as a different person from him who is , was , and is to come ; therefore he cannot be intended in the description at ver . . ? for he may be a different person from the almighty father , who is described by that character , v. . and yet as the son have the same property essential to the divine nature ascribed to him . this we contend for , and this i shall endeavour to prove . i shall begin with v. . i am alpha and omega , the beginning and the ending , saith the lord , which is , and which was , and which is to come , the almighty . all the question is , who is the lord that thus saith of himself , i am alpha and omega , & c ? for this we must consult the context , and then the character will appear to be his that cometh with clouds , v. . that made us kings and priests unto god and his father , v. . the first begotten of the dead , the prince of the kings of the earth , that loved us and washed us in his blood , even jesus christ , v. . so that he is no less the alpha and omega , than he is the prince of the kings of the earth . but let us go on with that divine writer , whom we find after the same manner describing our saviour , v. . i am alpha and omega , the first and the last . and that it 's given as a character belonging to him , is evident , for he is the same that commanded st. john to write , and whose voice he heard , the son of man that he saw in the midst of the seven candlesticks , v. , . so again , v. . he that saith of himself , i am the first and the last , is the same with him that saith of himself , v. . i am he that liveth and was dead , and behold i am alive for evermore . so again , he saith of himself , chap. . . these things saith the first and the last , which was dead and is alive . and as st. john begins , so he ends this prophetical book , cap. . . i am alpha and omega , the beginning and the end , the first and the last ; viz. the same with him that saith , ver . , & . behold , i come quickly ; — jesus that sent his angel to testify these things , v. . from all which laid together it is very manifest , and as clear as the meridian light , that these phrases are applied to our saviour , that he is the beginning and the ending , which is , and which was , and which is to come , the almighty . but how can the being of a creature be commensurate to all the several respects of duration , past , present , and to come ? and what a presumption would it be in a creature that had a beginning , to say of himself , i am alpha and omega , the first and the last ? so that our author must in the conclusion side with his antient vnitarians and deny the revelation to be canonical ; or be as good as his word , and give his adversary the cause , and write a retractation . the last place our author touches upon ( omitting several other material texts cited by his grace ) is job . . , . that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , &c. which he thus expounds ( calling into his aid grotius and vorstius , in his opinion two the ablest interpreters the church has yet had . ) . the word of life , that is , the gospel . . eternal life , i. e. the immortality therein promised . . from the beginning , that is , they were always intended and purposed by him , but not manifested till reveal'd in the gospel . . we have seen and handled , is to signifie their knowledge of it was most assured and absolute . for the hebrews are wont to declare the certainty and clearness of things by terms borrowed from the senses . ans. though the hebrews are wont to express the certainty and clearness of things after that manner ; yet i don't find that the scripture is wont to speak thus of the gospel , viz. the gospel which was from the beginning , which we have seen with our eyes , and our hands have handled , and which was with the father . but i find that saint john in his gospel speaks of our saviour in the like terms , for thus he saith of him , in the beginning ( which is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , as his grace observed p. . and grotius before him ) was the word , and the word was with god , v. . in him was life , v. . we beheld his glory , and he is said to be manifested , joh. . , . and joh. . , . now what can be more evident than that when the author is the same , the phrase the same , and more agreeable to the subject under consideration , that it should be alike understood in one book as the other , and so that which we have heard , and seen , and looked upon , and handled , and was with the father , should be the son , and not the gospel of god ? but saith our author , grotius and vorstius think otherwise ; and he goes on , i know not why his grace overlook'd this interpretation of two of the most learned and judicious criticks of this or any other age . answer , i answer in his phrase , i marvel much how our author should know that his grace overlook'd it , for it 's likely that he might not have the same opinion with this writer of these two great men , so as to think them the ablest interpreters the church has yet had : vorstius for many reasons , and grotius for his posthumous notes ( i should rather call them adversaria ) come not up to that character . besides his grace knew very well what both the antient and learned and judicious criticks of latter ages , thought of this text. in the number of the former is tertullian , adv . praxeam . c. . amongst the latter is erasmus ; and even grotius is inconsistent with himself , when he goes off from the gospel to the miracles that attested it , in his explication of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we have looked upon . before his grace leaves the argument of our saviour's deity , he takes notice of a usual plea of the socinians , that they glory they have reason clearly on their side in this and the other point of the b. trinity ; and that the difficulties and absurdities are much greater and plainer on our part than on theirs , a.b.p. . to each of these his lordship made a distinct reply , and shew'd particularly as to the doctrine of the trinity , that tho' it was above , yet it was not contrary to reason ; that though there were difficulties , yet no absurdity in it . this our author thought fit to pass over in silence . as to the latter , his grace undertook to prove that the opinion of our adversaries hath greater difficulties in it , and more palpable absurdities following from it , than any they could charge upon the orthodox . as when they say , that the son of god is a meer creature , not god by nature , and yet truly and really god by office , and by divine appointment and constitution ; to whom the very same honour and worship is to be given which we give to him who is god by nature . p. . in which his grace observes two difficulties and absurdities . . that they hereby bring idolatry by a back-door into the christian religion , as they give divine worship to a mere creature , and as they willingly admit two gods , the one by nature , and the other by office. . that they cannot vindicate themselves in this point in any other way , than what will in a great measure acquit both the pagans and papists from the charge of idolatry . this our author saith , is not an uncommon imputation on the socinian doctrine , and thus far he is in the right , for besides modern writers , the stream of the fathers charge the arians with idolatry as they worship christ , whom they suppose to be a meer creature . thus athanasius , gregory naz. and nyssen . st. basil , epiphanius , &c. and this charge our author doth rather avoid than deny ; for which purpose he divideth the vnitarians into two sorts : such as give christ no divine worship : of these he saith , it is certain we have wrote no book this seven years , in which we have not been careful to profess to all the world , that a like honour or worship ( much less the same ) is not to be given to christ-as to god. and then he will by all means have this charge of worshipping our saviour , to be a soul calumny thrown on them by the trinitarian preachers . do the trinitarians think , saith our hussing controvertist , they may devise a religion for us , and then come up into their pulpits to declaim against the schemes that are purely of their own invention ? in good time we shall have a pulpit socinianism , as there was in the late reign a pulpit popery ; for this author writes in the very way and phrase of misrepresentation and representation . but after all , is this a misrepresentation ? did never any vnitarians or socinians give honour and worship , a like and even the same to christ as to the father ? is that charge a device of the trinitarians ? our author will undertake for himself , for that is the we in this book , the author of the history of the vnitarians , the author of the criticisms on mr. milbourn , &c. and so for seven years backwards . we , saith he , have wrote no book this seven years , in which we have not been careful , &c. but were there no years before the last seven , that can be looked into ? he knew what the arians , and what socinus and his followers held and do hold . but he and his , for whom we want a name , ( for they are in this neither arians nor socinians ) unless we will call them francisco-davidists , are herein very reserved and cautious , that they may not give the same nor alike honour to our saviour as to god. indeed if they were of another mind before the seven years past , they have done well to change it , to ease themselves of a troublesome charge of giving divine worship to a mere creature , as did the arians and socinians ; and of as troublesom adversaries as socinus found franciscus david to be , that would not allow divine worship to be given to christ , because he was a creature , and that by so doing they should be guilty of idolatry . but after all his suming , and his talk of a devised religion , and declaiming pulpits , and schemes purely of their own invention , he is forced to own that there is a second sort of vnitarians that give divine worship to our saviour ; and that 's an objection in his way . but his grace will say perhaps , why ? do you not pray to christ ? and to close the objection , do you not then give the like , nay the same honour to christ as to god ? his answer to this is well worthy our observation . . there are indeed some vnitarians who pray to the lord christ. but why some ? did not the numerous arians , and did not socinus , and generally all called after his name do so ; and did they not think themselves obliged so to do , inveighing against those that did not ? . he adds by way of excuse , they pray'd to him indeed , but it was to him , as that mediatory king , who is ( say they ) appointed by god to succour us in all our straits and wants . but is not this to equal him with god , to whom alone we are taught to direct our prayers ? nay , is not this to attribute to him the divine properties of omniscience and omnipotence , when he is supposed to know and succour us in all our straits and wants ? no , saith he , for they own that his knowledge either of our wants or prayers is only by revelation from god ; and his power by which he relieves us , is wholly of god's giving . but is not prayer a part of divine worship , and peculiar to god ? and don't they then equal him to god , when they pray to him ? and is not that idolatry , to give to a creature the worship belonging to the creator ? and can any divine appointment make that not to be idolatry , which in its nature is so ? ( as the protestants use to maintain against the church of rome ) . and besides , don't those socinians that worship our saviour , affirm that they worship him as god ? thus socinus himself pleads , vt pro deo ac domino suo venerentur , tom. . p. . that they worship him as their god and lord. and much more to the same purpose . and what is it to worship him as god , but to give him divine worship ? the second difficulty and absurdity his grace charges upon them , is a plurality of gods , the one by nature , the other by office , a creature-god , a god merely by positive institution . all that he has to say to this , is , will he deny positively and directly , that the lord christ is a god by representation and office ? and then steals off with , let his grace give it under his hand , that the lord christ is not a god in these senses . a. this is much as if when charged with idolatry for giving divine worship to christ , if a mere man , he should say , will his grace deny positively and directly , that christ is a man ? for though he denies not christ to be a man , yet he affirms , that christ , if no more than a man , is not to be worshipped with divine honour . so tho he should not deny christ to be a god by representation and office , yet he affirms that one who is so and no more , cannot be the true god , nor be worshipped as god ; for that would establish a plurality of gods. but his grace on the other hand took not himself concerned , nor doth the case require , that he should positively assert , that christ is a god by representation ; for that is more than our author himself dares to do , who faintly enough concludes , that as moses is called a god , so also christ may be called a god by mission , representation , and office. now how unreasonable a thing is this , that he should put it so hard upon his grace , to deny positively and directly , what this author himself dares not positively and directly affirm ? for he cautiously saith ( for fear a proof should be required ) , so also may christ be called a god. but our author is too sparing and modest in his expressions , for the socinians are not backward to acknowledge , that our saviour is true god , and that there are more true gods than one ; and that to say there is one only supreme independent god , and to worship one god by nature , is judaical , and a renouncing of the christian religion . vid. smalcius exam. cent. err. & refutatio smig . de novis monstris , &c. to conclude , his grace had said , that the socinians cannot vindicate themselves in this point any other way , than what will in great measure acquit both the pagans and the papists from the charge of idolatry . this our author calls a thunder-clap ; and truly by his own pleas he makes good the imputation . for , . he saith , they pray to christ as a mediatory king , who is appointed by god to succor us in all our straits : and of this kind were the dii medioxumi among the heathens ; and so are the mediators of intercession , the saints and angels , in the church of rome , who they say are appointed by the supreme god to hear and succour us . . he saith , that the knowledge our saviour hath either of our wants or prayers , is only by revelation from god ; and his power is wholly of god's giving . so the romanists say , that the saints have their knowledge of our state , either by revelation , or in speculo trinitatis , in the glass of the trinity ; which is much the same . . our author saith , the worship given to christ is not the same which is given to god. so the church of rome hath their superior worship , latria , which they give to god ; and an inferior , dulia , which they give to saints . . our author saith , though these socinians pray to christ , yet they don 't hereby equal him to god. this is the very plea made by the church of rome for the worship they give , and the prayers they offer to saints and angels . from all which we see how much modesty as well as truth there is in what his grace observes , that they cannot vindicate themselves in this point any other way , than what will in a great measure acquit both the pagans and the papists from the charge of idolatry . sect . ii. of the incarnation of our blessed saviour . after a discourse of several pages , which our author declines , his lordship proceeded to the most usual and considerable objections of his adversaries against the doctrine of christ's incarnation . as , object . . they say , that this union of the divinity with the humane nature , is , if not altogether impossible , yet very unintelligible . to this his grace replies , that there is no impossibility , is evident from the union between the soul and body of a man , p. , and . against this our author makes two exceptions . except . . in a personal vnion of a soul with a body , the vnion is between two finite and commensurate things ; which is not only possible , but very conceivable . but in the pretended personal vnion of god to man , and man to god , the vnion is between finite and infinite . answer . here our author over-runs the point , when he considers the personal union of a soul and body , merely as a union between two finites ; for instances between such , the world is full of : whereas the difficulty is , as the union is between soul and body , that is , spirit and matter , which are two extreams , and so incommensurate ; and yet notwithstanding they are not only vitally united , but they both retain their distinct natures and properties , as his grace observes . under which notion , the personal union between two such unequals is as difficult to conceive ( were it not that we are sure that it is ) as the personal union between the divine and humane natures in our saviour . but our author pursues his point . for , saith he , the personal union of god to man is between finite and infinite ; which cannot be without admitting one of these things ; either that finite and infinite are commensurate ; which every one knows is false : or , that the finite is united only to some part of the infinite , and is disjoyned from the rest of it ; which all trinitarians deny and abhor ; because if so , jesus christ should not be perfect god , but only god in part . answer . by this way of arguing our author may as well undertake to prove , that there is no such thing as a personal vnion between the soul and body ; for , that cannot be imagined without admitting one of these two things ; either that soul and body are commensurate and equal , and alike extended , which every one knows is false : or , that body and soul are united as to some part only , which is disjoyned from the rest , and that is of a spirit to make it material . what more plain , if his argument be true , than that there can be no personal union between the soul and body , such distant extremes ? so that you may as soon expect that the soft and impalpable air should be united to a thunderbolt , or a speculative thought to a milstone , as that there can be a union between things so incommensurate and unequal , as a body and a soul are . but if notwithstanding such conceived difficulties , soul and body are thus found to be united ; then is it alike consistent that the two natures in our blessed saviour be united in one person . again , by the same way he may go on and prove that immensity is no perfection of the divine nature ; and that it 's impossible god should be every where , and essentially present . for immensity ( if it be ) has a relation to place , that is , infinite to finite : but such a relation cannot be in god , without one of these two things , that finite [ place ] and infinite [ immensity ] are commensurate , which every one knows is false : or , that the finite [ place ] has a relation to some part of the infinite , and is disjoyned from the rest of it ; and so the divine essence is particle and divisible , which all deny : the difficulty we see presses as hard upon the personal union of soul and body , and god's immensity , as upon the union of the divine and humane natures in our saviour ; and which he must deny , or give up his argument . indeed it is not for us to talk metaphysically of the divine nature , till we understand our own ; nor of the nature , kinds and modes in higher matters , till we understand the connexion and union of parts in a pebble or a bubble : left by such an attempt we run our selves into heresie , a dangerous and inevitable rock , as our author represents the case ; or into his downright nonsense , of uniting two understandings , or persons , by the abolition of one of them . except . . the vnion of soul and body may be personal , that is , may constitute or make one person : because it is not the vnion of two persons , but only of one person ( the soul ) to a thing which is otherways without life , reason , memory , or free-will — but in the ( pretended ) vnion of god with man , there are two distinct , and very different lives , reasons , memories and free-wills , which utterly destroy the notion of a personnl vnion . for a personal vnion supposes but one life , one reason , one memory , one free-will . because if these things which constitute a person are found more than once , there is no longer one person but two , and consequently no personal vnion in the sense in which we are arguing . answer . i deny that two lives , or two understandings , or two free wills , do necessarily make two different persons or beings , when there is a subordination between them ; for then they receive their denomination or title from the supreme . as we usually say there are three sorts of life , vegetation in plants , animality in brutes , and rationality in men ; now if one of these is alone , that gives denomination to it , as a plant is called a vegetable . but when the vegetative life is united to the animal , it loses that character , and the creature then is called an animal , and is so called as if there was no principle in it of vegetation . and the rational ( though there be vegetation and animality ) is so called , as if there was no vegetation or animality . that is , when there are several powers one in subordination to another , they make not several beings ( as they would do if alone ) but the supream gives the denomination to the whole . and thus it is in the case before us , where there are two natures , the divine and humane ; two lives , the immortal and mortal ; two understandings , an infinite and a limited ; two wills ; and yet not two persons : because the understanding and will of the inferior ( the humane nature ) is subordinate to the superior ( the divine ) and so the person is as much one , as if there had been but one nature , one life , one understanding , and one will. as to our author's history of apollinarius , nestorius , and eutyches , ( were i disposed to make excursions ) i could present him with the rhapsody and bedrole of the opinions of those he calls vnitarians , from cerinthus and ebion downward to socinus , and of the violences and outrages of the arians against the photinians and orthodox ; and of the rancour of the photinians against the arians and orthodox : but that i shall refer to a more proper occasion . object . . 't is a thing incongruous , and much beneath the dignity of the son of god , to be united to humane nature . to this his grace makes a large reply , and amongst other things saith : the lower any being , be he never so high , condescends to do good , the glory of his goodness shines so much the brighter . to this passage alone our author returns an answer , if i may call a representation so , and in requital i shall return him the reverse of his comparison , mutatis mutandis . if christ by the just interest he has in the favour of his father , procures the pardon of sinners , and to keep them for the time to come from the like bad courses , should obtain the grant of eternal happiness , and then give them such counsel and precepts , as might best dispose them to a new course of life ; — would not this care and benignity be sufficient , unless the son of god himself came , and be content to be cloathed with the rags of humanity , and to be bound and buffetted , imprisoned , arraigned , condemned and crucified for them ? in his judgment , such a scene would have more of folly than goodness . and he concludes , therefore much less is it to be supposed of god , than of a wise man. this needs no farther animadversion , the impiety of it is a sufficient reply . object . . the incarnation is not necessary , saith he . for our opposers grant this , that the pardon of sin might have been offer'd to mankind by a prophet in the name of god ; so that there was no apparent cogent necessity , no extraordinary and indispensable cause for it ; and so must be allowed an unaccountable , causeless debasement of the divine majesty ; and seeing no such cause is assigned , saith he , we have leave to believe it never was . a. the objection is of our author 's own forming ; and there are two uses he makes of his adversary's concession ( which for the present we will take as he represents it . ) . that if there was no apparent cogent necessity , no indispensable cause for the incarnation , it must be an unaccountable and causeless debasement . . seeing no such cause is assigned , therefore they have reason to believe it never was . as to the first , it 's a gross mistake ; for there may be a good and sufficient cause for that , which there is no cogent and indispensable , and much more no apparent necessity for : he tells us , that the gospel and pardon of sin might have been offer'd to mankind by a prophet in the name of god , and so there was no apparent and cogent necessity for christ's incarnation . and surely if the offering pardon by a prophet was sufficient , there was no apparent , cogent , and indispensable necessity for christ's coming into the world ; and then ( according to our author's way of arguing ) christ's coming into the world is as unaccountable , and causeless , as he would have his incarnation to be . . as to the second : seeing no such cause is assigned , therefore the son of god was never incarnate . a. i answer , by this way of arguing , christ was never crucified , any more than he was incarnate . for if there was no indispensable cause for it , it might have been omitted ; and there was no indispensable cause for it , where the teaching of a prophet was sufficient . and without an indispensable cause , our author has taught us the wisdom of god would not stoop to such a humiliation ; and consequently , our saviour was no more crucified than he was incarnate , if our author argues right . under the covert of this objection , our author takes to task the reasons which his grace offers for our saviour's being incarnate ; and excepting the case of mysteries ( which i shall reserve for another place ) our author frames one general answer to them all , viz. ' that these considerations do not prove the incarnation expedient in the age of augustus ; for they were much more forcible in the time of adam , than of augustus . for in the last , god could propound only to reclaim men from their idolatries , errors and impieties ; but if he had been incarnate in the age of adam he had prevented them . and if these are good arguments , 't is morally impossible , either that there was in the age of augustus , or ever shall be an incarnation . he concludes , i think i may say , this is an accurate and just reasoning : it being founded on this maxim of common prudence , that what was more expedient to be done at first than afterwards , would have been at first , if it had been at all expedient to be done . a. the reasons given of christ's incarnation , viz. the reclaiming mankind from their idolatries , errors and impieties , are the same with the reasons for christ's coming into the world : and where the reasons are the same , they are to be tryed in the same way . let us therefore put christ's coming into the world , into the room of his being incarnate ; and we shall find it as requisite ( if our author's argument be of any force ) that he should have come into the world from the beginning , as that he should have been incarnate from the beginning ; and as morally impossible he should have been born in the age of augustus , as that he should have been incarnate in his time . for these reasons were much more forcible in the age of adam than of augustus . for by so late a nativity as the age of augustus , god could propound only to reclaim men from their idolatries , &c. but by being born in the very time of adam , he had prevented the idolatries of years . — if these be good arguments for christ's nativity , ' t is morally impossible , either that there was in the age of augustus , or that there ever shall be a saviour born into the world. the same argument will also affect the gospel , and make it necessary , that it should have been as completely published in the age of adam as of augustus . this is a home charge indeed , a charge of a great overfight and neglect in almighty god , for want , it seems , of attending to a maxim of common prudence , viz. of doing what was more expedient to be done at first than afterwards . for according to our author , the whole design of salvation by christ was mis-timed , and the fulness of time for it was in the age of adam , and not of augustus . this he accounts acurate and just reasoning ; and i suppose the next news we hear , will be amendments upon the gospel ; and a set of chronological tables to rectifie us in these matters . and to that work i leave him . for i suppose he will not expect from his adversaries , that they should prove to him , that the time of augustus was better than that of adam , for our lord's appearance in the world ; or to give him the reasons , why almighty god chose the time of augustus for the nativity of our saviour , and the publishing the gospel by him , rather than the time of adam . a vindication of the lord bishop of worcester's sermon concerning the mysteries of the christian faith , from the exceptions made against it , by the author of the considerations on the explications of the doctrine of the trinity . if the author of the considerations had a mind to have writ upon a noble argument , this learned adversary gave him a fair occasion to try his skill , by proposing the two different hypotheses concerning the salvation of mankind by jesus christ , and shewing the agreeableness of the one , by his assuming our nature , and suffering in our stead , to the revealed will of god. which he confirms , as it 's most plain and easie , and agreeable to the most received sense of the words ; as it suits with the scope and design of the whole new testament ; hath been generally received in the christian church ; and best agrees with the characters of those persons from whom we receive the christian faith , viz. christ jesus and his apostles . upon the last of these his lordship more particularly discourses . but instead of taking his adversary to task about this weighty subject , our author chuses rather to fall upon some other points , where he may have a greater scope for the gratifying his roving fancy ; not caring to be tyed up by the rules and measures of strict argumentation ; and therefore for the fitting to his purpose what he had to say , he passes over the other , under the character of a great many heads , too troublesome for a reader 's view , whereas the chief of all ( as he will have it ) lies in these three . . god may justly require of us to believe what we cannot not comprehend . . those who reject the mysteries of faith , do themselves advance greater mysteries than those they declaim against . . the manner and way of salvation the church teaches , tends more to the benefit of mankind , than the way of salvation by christ taught by the socinians . of these three propositions our author thus passes his judgment . the first is true ; but not to the purpose . the second is home to the purpose , but not true . the third is neither true nor to the purpose . when he elsewhere read this character of a certain book , without doubt he thought the cadence of it very pretty , and might be divertive for his reader , whether it were right or wrong , and fit for his purpose or not . but because i am apt to suspect the exactness of such turns of fancy , i shall make bold to examine them , and see how his character and the heads of discourse he applies it to , will agree . the first , saith he , is true , but not to the purpose . the contrary of this used to be accounted true by his predecessors in the same way ; socinus himself , as his lordship shewed [ serm. p. . ] denied the divine prescience , because he could not comprehend it ; and the incomprehensibleness of a doctrine used to be a mighty argument amongst the socinians , against the truth of it , as might be shewn . but our author is of another mind , as he tells us , for the present : and if his lordship could by prescience have foretold his mind , and foreseen he would have replied upon him , he might have spar'd to himself ( as he gravely observes ) the pains of these ten pages in his sermon , in which he seeks to prove , that there are many things we do not comprehend . but his lordship is not to be blamed for want of that prescience , which the acute socinus would not allow to god himself . and to say the truth of it , he thought he had wrote against a socinian point , but our author can tell him , he utterly mistakes ; perhaps his lordship had not read the notes on the creed of aibanasius , nor the trinitatian scheme of religion , nor the answer to mr. milbourn , ( books our author recommends ) nor the history of the last seven years ; for it 's likely he might there have found the index expurgatorius to socinus , and his successors ; and the alterations made in this refining age in their grosser doctrine , without which they will tell him he writes against imaginary socinianism . but our author within the compass of three pages changes his mind . in page . all the works of god are incomprehensible , and we cannot comprehend the least spire of grass . but pag. . he cannot understand why his lordship and many others are so positive , that we cannot comprehend an infinite attribute , as eternity . now i should have thought that the works of god , and a spire of grass are as comprehensible as an infinite attribute . he tells us , contradictions are by all confessed to be impossibilities ; and so i take comprehensible and incomprehensible to be ; it remains therefore upon him to shew that they are possible ; and-that while it is not possible for a spire of grass to be comprehended , that yet eternity may . he bears a little too hard upon his readers , to suppose their memory or attention will not hold out three pages together ; and that he may have the liberty to affirm and deny , and contradict himself ( as shall best serve his end ) without offence to their understanding . but perhaps , the heat of writing and controversie was the occasion of this inadvertency . the first of these , the incomprehensiblenss of god's works , is left in it's place to try its fortune , and to subsist upon its own credit . but when he maintains the comprehensibleness of an infinite attribute ( he might have said infinity , for that is a divine attribute ) because it sounds not so well , and these men that have taught the world , that to do contradictions would not be a perfection , but an imperfection in the divine nature , may have also taught them , that infinity cannot be comprehended by a finite understanding , nor god be comprehended by a creature ; because of this he takes himself concerned to make good his paradox , by setting up such a notion of comprehension as he conceives may support it : and that is , that to comprehend a thing , is to have a clear , distinct and adequate conception of it . and he adds , may we not have such a notion of an infinite attribute ? i think we may . let us suppose for the present , his definition of comprehension to be good and right ; may we not then have as clear , distinct , and adequate conception of a spire of grass , or any of god's works , as of infinity and eternity ? and then how comes he before to acknowledge the truth of that saying of his lordship's , that we cannot comprehend the least spire of grass ? but how true soever his notion of comprehending may be , he mistakes in the application , when he saith , vve may have a clear , distinct , and adequate conception of an infinite attribute . now we used to say ( till the days of discarding mysteries came on ) that only god can comprehend his own essence , and nothing less than infinite could have a clear , distinct , and adequate conception of infinite . for 't is evident we have not a clear , distinct , and adequate conception of that which we can give no adequate definition of . but we can give no adequate definition of infinite ; and therefore-are forced to speak of it by way of negation , and rather say what it is not , than what it is . thus he himself describes god's eternity , viz. 't is that duration by which he is without all beginning and end. which is by no means , a clear , distinct , and adequate definition of it . for first duration applied to eternity , is what is usually call'd a contradiction in adjecto : for saith our author , it is of the nature of a duration to consist in a succession ; but in eternity is no succession . for what succession was there before the creation of the world ? and yet there was the same eternity then as now . so that to describe eternity by duration , and to cut that indivisible into parts by succession , is to make a temporary eternity , which methinks sounds as ill as an eternal moment . secondly , it s by no means an adequate definition of eternity , because it consists of negatives , without all beginning and end. a greater proof cannot be given of the inadequateness of our conception , than thus to go through the world of beings , and assertions , and to say it is not this , and it is not that , and yet we are never the nearer to tell what the thing really is . as if i would ask , what is an infinite attribute ? and he should answer , a perfection without bounds . what is a spirit ? a being that hath no flesh and bones . what eternity ? a duration without beginning or end. do we understand infinity , a spirit , or eternity , the better for all this ? as suppose when the word spirit is applied to god , angels , and souls departed ; will the abovesaid definition give me any clear , distinct , and adequate conception of it , and assign the difference between what it is in god , and what in a creature , or what at all ? a mistake then it is in the thing , as well as a contradiction in him ; and the reason of this blunder ( next to a carping-disposition of mind , watchful to take all advantages ) is , that he was not aware of the difference between apprehend and comprehend , and confounded existence with essence , that the thing is , with what the thing is . and of both of these he himself has given us a remarkable instance . for the bishop having said , if nothing is to be believed but what may be comprehended , the very being of god must be rejected too . p. . our author upon it makes this observation , ' that the attributes of god are incomprehensible , i have often heard ; but never till now what his lordship adds ' in the next place , purely from himself , if nothing , saith he , is to be believed , &c. but why is this purely from himself ? for this admirable reason , subjoyned by our author , to comprehend the being or existence of god , is only this , to comprehend that god is : and if we cannot comprehend that , all religion ceases . but how came that word existence in ? to comprehend the being or existence of god is only this , &c. for his lordship has no other word than being , which plainly there refers to the nature , and not the existence of the almighty . so in the paragraph just before , it is madness to pretend to comprehend what is infinite : and in the close of the same paragraph , as long as they believe an infinite and incomprehensible being , it is nonsense to reject any other doctrine which relates to an infinite being , because it is incomprehensible . so that it 's god , as an infinite and incomprehensible being , that his lordship is discoursing of ; not of his existence , but his essence and nature . and yet we are not at an end of these difficulties , were we to consider his existence . to return to the bishop's first proposition ( as recited by our author ) viz. god may justly require of us to believe what we cannot comprehend . to what purpose is this ? for our author saith , he [ the bishop ] utterly mistakes , in thinking that we deny the articles of the new christianity , or athanasian religion [ concerning the trinity , the deity , and incarnation of our saviour , &c. ] because they are mysteries , or because we do not comprehend them ; we deny them , because they are contradictons , impossibilities , and pure nonsense , p. . b. surely this new christianity , this athanasian religion , is no other than babylon in the revelation , that had mystery wrote on her forehead , that was the mother of harlots , and abominations of the whole earth ; and deserves to be treated in like manner , if she vends imposture and contradictions under the name of mysteries , as he represents it . but in defect of a royal authority to consummate the sentence , there is a terrible scourge , a book wrote by a learned friend of theirs , that hath wrought wonders , and with the like success as the whips were shew'd to the sicilian slaves , to their utter discomfiture . so that the merchants of these wares have their markets spoiled , or much hindred , if he is to be believed . and yet after all , if we may guess at the book by his sample out of it , it 's as gentle as one could wish ; and falls in with his adversaries . for what doth he say , but what they have said before him ? as , . there are in religion some mysteries , and incomprehensible secrets . . we are not to give the venerable name of mystery to doctrines contrary to nature's and reason's light. . the ordinary meaning of mystery in scripture , is not something in it's own nature dark and obscure , but something intelligible , and kept secret in past ages , and was revealed in gospel-times . but for all this , may not the word mystery be applied to such things as are in some measure known , but in much greater unknown to us ( as his lordship saith ) ? and when our author's friend doth say , the ordinary meaning of mystery in scripture , is for what was a secret , but now made known ; it supposes that he was sensible it was also sometimes there us'd for what was in its own nature dark and obscure . i thought to have pursued this argument , but i the rather pass it , because it 's under the consideration of a learned pen. amongst the instances that are incomprehensible , his lordship begins with eternity ; and saith , that he is apt to think , there is no greater difficulty in the conception of the trinity , and incarnation , than there is of eternity . a bold saying ! and he deserves to be expos'd for it . difficulties the bishop calls them , but our author will have it contradictions , and many contradictions in the trinity and incarnation ; and insinuates that his lordship would himself have call'd his difficulties in eternity , contradictions , if he durst ; for thus his adversary goes on , he dares not call them contradictions ( though as he states them they are undeniable contradictions ) because if they were confess'd to be contradictions , he would be forced to deny an eternity . and it is not long before we are told the bishop denies that also . there are two difficuties his lordship observes in the eterternity of god. the first is , ' that if god was for ever , he must be from himself ; and what notion can we have in our minds concerning it ? our author represents this , as if it was the bishop's design to argue against god's eternity , after this manner , i am sorry an eternal god must be a contradiction . had he no way to defend his new mysteries , but by espousing the cause of the atheists ? &c. a calumny as black as hell ! for , is there any word leaning this way ? what! to prove that there are contradictions in the notion of eternity , or that an eternal god is a contradiction ! doth not his lordship both affirm there is great reason to believe the eternity of god , and in the same breath effectually prove it , and confute those atheists whose cause this slanderer would have him to espouse ? but this is his usual way of prefacing an argument ; the reason for it lies open enough . but where is the contradiction ? at last it proves one of his own making . for , saith he , what makes him [ the bishop ] say , god must be from himself , or self-originated ? for then he must be before he was . for god to be before he was , is a contradiction . but i do not see how it follows , that if he is from himself , he must be before he was ? for he may be from himself , and yet be necessarily and eternally existent . this 't is likely our author saw , and therefore to clinch his argument , he joyns an alias to the phrase , from himself , and then it is from himself , or self-originated . and now he has put a pretty varnish upon it ; for self-originated , if strictly taken , implies an origine or beginning from himself : and ( as he saith ) all origination of what kind soever is inconsistent with an eternal being . if his lordship had said , god had his beginning or origination from himself , or in his adversarie's phrase were self-originated , there had been some colour for him to have inferred , then he was in being before he was . but to be from himself , is no more liable to such an inference , than when we say he is self-existent , or in the word used by the fathers , ' 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god of and from himself , that is , so as to have no cause nor beginning . the second difficulty his lordship proposed about god's eternity , is , how god should co-exist with all the differences of times , and yet there be no succession in his own being ? — and succession being not consistent with the absolute perfection of the divine nature , therefore god must be all at once what he is . this our author saith , is a great many contradictions , and proposes no less than five queries upon it , which he gives his lordship time till dooms-day to answer . for thus he closes them , the notion of the trinity , and this notion of eternity , will be vindicated both in a day . however we will try if the day for it be not already come ; and for trial's sake , i will venture to offer them again to the reader , as they stand in his treatise . q. . what is the difference between an eternal moment , ( which every one discerns is a contradiction in the very terms ) and between possessing eternal life all at once , which is his lordship's definition of eternity ? a. the difference is as great , as between contradiction and truth . an eternal moment is a contradiction ; for a moment is a moveable point , and passes as soon into not being , as it came into being . it was not , it is , and immediately is not ; and so nothing more opposite in the nature of it to eternity . but eternity admits no succession , no divisibility , no moments , no past , no future , no motion , no change , and consequently must be all existent together , and all at once : for there is no mean between succession , and all at once ; and since succession is imcompatible with eternity , eternity must be all at once . and if god did not possess himself all at once , he could not be eternal . q. . seeing it is of the nature of all duration to consist in a succession , else it were not duration but a moment , i ask whether it be not unavoidable , that if almighty god possesses eternal life all at once , he must have passed into some durations before they are ? the duration , for example , in which the day of judgment shall be , is not actually come . but if god possesses eternity all at once , he is already entred upon that duration , that is , he is entred upon it before it is . a. if it be of the nature of all duration to consist in a succession , then there can be no more duration than there is succession in an eternal being : and consequently , 't is a gross absurdity to conceive of god , as entring upon a certain duration , and passing into some duration , which is to conceive of him as a temporary being , and that began to be , ( for so it is in all succession ) and not as one that is eternal . q. . seeing it is a contradiction , and therefore impossible , that any being should possess a duration before such duration is ; i desire to know of his lordship , how it can be an imperfection ( as he affirms ) in the divine nature , not to do that which implies a contradiction , &c. a. 't is true , that it is a contradiction , and therefore impossible for a creature , to whom duration and succession belong , to possess a duration before such duration is . but it is a contradiction , and therefore impossible for god to possess any duration ( which consists in succession ) because he is eternal . for him to possess a certain duration and succession , would be to suppose him in duration a , before he removed to duration b , and when he is in duration b , to have left duration a. eternity in god , is with respect to time , what immensity is to place ; and so he is all at once , as he is at once in all places ; and as notwithstanding the innumerable divisions in place , god is no more divided , than he was before place was created . so , notwithstanding the manifold distributions of time , god is no more in one duration than in another , but is now the same eternal undivided being , when there is a before , a present , and an after in time , as he was before there was any time , duration or succession . q. . how is it more an imperfection to pass from not being , into such a duration , to such a being in it , than 't is an imperfection to pass from not operating in such a duration , to operating in it ? this last all men must confess to be true of god ; for none will dare to say , god made all his works at once . a. to pass from duration to duration , and from not being in such a particular duration to a being in it , is no other than succession which ( as has been shew'd ) is utterly inconsistent with the nature of god , who is eternal . to pass from not operating in such a duration , to operating in it , is to suppose there was a duration before god did operate in it , which is manifestly absurd . for duration is a continuance of time ; but what duration was there in eternity , before there was any time , or god began to operate and make the world ? again , to argue from the works of god to his nature , is to circumscribe him to time and place , as they are . and he may as well argue , that god began to be , when he began to operate , as to argue from succession in the creatures , or a succession of god's operation in the creatures , to a succession in himself ; and that he cannot be all at once , because he did not make all his works at once . q. . what shadow of imperfection is it to pass from one duration to another , when the person so passing , carries with him all perfections into every duration ? a. if this were so , the almighty would want one perfection of his nature , which is eternity . for he can no more carry his eternity with him into the various successions of duration , than he can pass from place to place , and carry his immensity with him . 't is the upshot ( i will not say the design ) of these his queries to overthrow the eternity of god , under colour of disproving the notion of the platonists and boethius , the school-men and the doctors , and professors of mysteries in our times , ( as he derives its pedigree , and is pleased to give their character ) viz. that eternity is a possession of all at once : and so turns all the bitter invectives upon himself , with which he so virulently , and without any pretext endeavours to wound his adversary . for what else is the effect of his doctrine of succession in god , and passing from one duration to another ? for where there is succession , there was a beginning , unless he will make the first moment in his succession to be eternal , which he knows is a contradiction in terms . the two remaining difficulties which his lordship offers to our consideration , and to shew how incomprehensible things are , are the spirituality of god's nature , and his prescience . to the former he makes no other reply , than to disavow ( if it is so ) what was charged upon some of their way about god's corporeity . as to the latter , nothing will serve his turn , but that the bishop opposes the vnity of god ( that envied doctrine ) by finding contradictions in his eternity and foreknowledge . but what if the bloody charge fall upon socinus , who found the difficulties , and as he thought , the contradictions in the doctrine of god's prescience to be so great , intrenching upon the freedom of humane actions , and making god the author of sin ; that he thought it the better way wholly to deny it . but this our author is very careful to suppress . . proposition . the difficulties , saith his lordship , are in point of reason more insuperable in the socinian way than ours ; of which he gives several instances that may be called mysteries . . the mystery on the part of the orthodox , is the eternal son of god's being with the father before the world was made by him . the mystery on the other side is , ' that although jesus were born six months after john baptist , yet he was in dignity before him . now this , saith the bishop , is a mystery ; forasmuch as it cannot be conceived that the evangelist should , in lofty expressions , and profound language , prove a thing which was never disputed . it is st. john that is referr'd to , and if he may be esteemed the author of that gospel , yet our author cannot find that profound language and lofty expressions in him . the sense indeed , saith he , is sometimes profound , but the expression is always mean. so little judgment had friend amelius , when at the first reading he thought the barbarian ( as he call'd that divine evangelist ) to platonize ; and in his profound language to imitate his great master . indeed our author rather thinks of a character befitting a rhetorician , orator , or poet , than a philosopher or divine writer . as if because the evangelist had not an elevation of conceit or expression , like or above the greek or roman orators , or poets , his language could not be profound , nor his expressions lofty . . saith he , if the language were profound , it would not follow , the sense intended must be a mystery . but it would follow , that st. john that wrote of such sublime things , after that manner , would not take pains to prove what was never disputed , viz. that although christ were born six months after john baptist , yet he was in dignity before him . at last , by head and shoulders , he brings in a paraphrase of the socinians on the beginning of st. john , which has already been consider'd ; but because i am not willing to be behind-hand with him , i shall repay it with another , borrowing some help towards it from his own exposition , viz. in the beginning of the gospel , the word jesus christ being about years old , was then in being and alive : and about that time was rapt up into heaven , as st. paul was , which we are piously to believe , being the scripture is silent in it . and after a very short stay there , but so long as it may be said , he was with god , this word came down again from heaven , which we are upon the same consideration to believe , as his former ascension . and then or some time after , perhaps at his resurrection , he was constituted a god , not an eternal god , but a man god , a creature-god , a finite temporary god , that dates the beginning of his deity from the term aforesaid . and being thus a god , he made a new world , as the eternal god made the old. and though he had nothing in him of the divine nature , ( for that god could not give him ) nor any of the incommunicable attributes of the deity , omnipotence , omnipresence , omniscience , and such like . ( wherefore ' t is better to use the words christ , lord and saviour , than god , because there may be no small inconvenience with respect to the vulgar ) yet he was to have the same honour given him by angels and men , which they gave to the father , the eternal , omnipotent , omnipresent , and omniscient god. and to encourage them in this , they are to know , that faustus socinus had cause to think , that his unkle laelius had , by many prayers obtained from christ himself a very dextrous and admirable interpretation of a difficult place in st. john. now this i take to be an unintelligible mystery , and fit to be put to that , that although christ jesus were born six months after john , yet he was in dignity before him . but here he saith they have on their side the principal criticks of the trinitarians , particularly erasmus and beza , who understand the phrase , for he was before me , john . . of a priority of dignity and excellence , not of a priority of time . admit this for the present , then the sense of that place will amount to this , he that cometh after me , is preferr'd before me ; for he was preferr'd before me : or , he that cometh after me , is more excellent than me ; for he was more excellent than me . thus st. chrysostom expounds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is preferr'd before me , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , more excellent , more honourable . . the mystery on the orthodox side is , that a divine person should assume humane nature , and so the word be made flesh. the mystery on the other side is , ' that an attribute of god , his wisdom or power , is made flesh ; that is , for an accident to be made a substance . in answer to this our author saith , . by the word we do not understand god the son ; the rather , because no such person is once mentioned in all holy scripture . answ. if that were a reason sufficient why the word in that proposition , the word was made flesh , should not be understood of god the son ; then 't is as much a reason why the word in the first verse should not be understood of god the son : but if notwithstanding that no such person is once mentioned in scripture as god the son , yet the word in verse . is to be understood of a person ; then notwithstanding that , verse . may as well be understood in like manner of the personal word . but is no such person ever mentioned in scripture , as god the son ? what is the word but the son of god , and when the word and the son are the same , what is the difference between god the word , and god the son ? and when the son is called god in scripture , what is the difference between god the son , and the son that is god ? . but what do they understand by the word , when the word is said to be made flesh ? he answers , the power and wisdom of god. now if so ; where then is the fault , when the bishop charges it upon them as a mystery beyond all comprehension , that they say that an attribute of god , his wisdom or power , is made flesh ? here he comes in again with his , we do not mean hereby , as his lordship would insinuate , that the wisdom or power of god was turned into flesh , or man. now this is more than his adversary charges them with : but what do they mean ? why , we mean , saith he , as the trinitarians thereby also mean , that the word was incarnate , tabernacled in flesh , abode on the man christ jesus in more ample manner , and much larger measure , then on former prophets . answ. if they mean , by made flesh , as the trinitarians themselves also mean ; then they must mean , that the wisdom and power of god is incarnate , and took upon it the flesh and nature of man ; or else they do not mean by that phrase as the trinitarians do . but suppose we give him back again what he has granted , and allow that they do not mean as the trinitarians mean , when they say , the word was incarnate ; but that they mean , the word abode on the man christ jesus ; that is , the word , power , or wisdom , abode on the word christ ; yet how comes he from the word 's tabernacling in flesh , or was made flesh , to interpret it , abode in christ. methinks there is much of mystery in this . but i have not yet done ; for tho he saith , the language and expression of st. john is always mean , yet i apprehend st. john to be consistent with himself , and to write intelligibly . but our author brings all this into question , by a forced interpretation , and setting up his own meaning against that of st. john ; as will appear to any indifferent man , from the connection and order of this chapter ; whether it be the part before verse . or that which follows . before ; for thus the evangelist proceeds , in the beginning was the word , — and that word was the true light. — and the word was made flesh. so that the word that was made flesh , was the same that was the true light , and that was in the beginning . and therefore if by the word that was made flesh , is to be understood the power and wisdom of god , then so it is to be understood when the word is said to be in the beginning , after this manner ; in the beginning was the power of god , and the power of god was with god , and the power of god was god. let us consult the words following the clause , [ the word was made flesh ] and it will be yet more evident ; the word was made flesh , and dwelt among us , and we beheld his glory , the glory of the only begotten of the father , &c. john bare witness of him , and cried , saying , this was he of whom i spake ; &c. so that the same word that was made flesh , dwelt among them ; the same word that was made flesh , and dwelt among them , and whose glory they saw , was the only begotten of the father . the same word that was made flesh , and dwelt among them , was he of whom john bare witness . now if the whole tenor of that discourse , before and after , belong to the personal word , then so doth the clause between ; or else he will make st. john write so as no intelligent writer can be supposed to write . . the mystery on the side of the orthodox , is , that the son of god ' came down from heaven , and took our nature upon him . the mystery on the other side is , ' that christ should be rapp'd up into heaven . this mystery of theirs our author will have to be no more difficult than st. paul's being caught up into the third heaven . and so far he is in the right ; for that was no more impossible than this , and christ might have ascended before his ministry , as well as after his resurrection . but this is not the mystery that his lordship lays his hand upon ; but it is this , that in a matter of so great consequence , and so remarkable a part of history ( if it had been true ) the scripture should be wholly silent ; that when it is so punctual in the relation of moses's converse with god at the giving of the law , and of our saviour's forty days temptation in the wilderness , and his transfiguration , &c. that there should be no more said of this ascension of our saviour , than of the virgin mary's assumption , tho ( as they would have it ) it was to receive instructions in the will of god concerning the gospel-dispensation ; and when he was constituted and made a god , ( as some of them say . ) this is a mystery . but i acknowledge that the invention of this is a new mystery ; it being apparent , that it was by them thought necessary to make some tolerable sense of these words , he came down from heaven , as his lordship observes of this before . as for the mystery on the other side , we acknowledge it to be so , but not for the reason he gives , because to descend or ascend belongs only to limited and finite beings . since notwithstanding that , god in scripture is said to go down , that that is not to be understood of a local descent , but of a manifestation of the deity . and the son of god is said to come down from heaven when he became man , because he took the humane nature into union with the divine ; and where the humane was , there was also the divine . . the mystery on the orthodox side is , that god should become man by taking our nature upon him . the mystery on the other side is , ' that man should become god , &c. in the-former , an infinite is united to a finite ; in the latter , a finite becomes infinite . our author saith , the bishop found it necessary to misinterpret their doctrines , before he could find mysteries in it . a. but surely he doth not misreport their doctrine , when he saith , that they make a man to be god. our author is very tender in the point , and saith he may be called a god ; and saith , that it cannot be satisfactorily proved , that any authentick copies of the bible do give to him the title , god. but socinus , and his followers , are not sparing to call him a true god , and to give him divine worship as such ( as has been shewed ) ; and i question whether our author can say more about the authentick copies than sandius , which has been sufficiently confuted before he published his brief history , . as for what our author saith concerning the case of moses , magistrates and angels being called god : i ask , whether any of them may be called a true god. for if moses was , for example , as much a god as christ , he might have , and challenge the same divine worship as is given , and is due to christ. . the mystery on the side of the orthodox is , ' that christ suffered for our sakes ; as a voluntary sacrifice of expiation of the sins of mankind , and not for his own sake . the mystery on the other side is , to make him suffer as one wholly innocent ; which is , to make the most innocent persons as apprehensive of suffering as the most guilty . here our author interposes , and saith , his lordship seems not to understand the state of the question , because he had said , ' t is more reasonable to believe that jesus christ suffered for our sakes , than for his own . whereas he suffer'd for both ; for his own sake , to obtain a glorious reward , &c. answ. it is plain , that when his lordship saith , christ suffer'd for our sake , and not for his own ; he means thereby , not for his own sake , as he did for ours ; for our sins , and not for any of his own : so it immediately follows , we are all agreed , that the sufferings of christ were far beyond any thing he deserv'd at god's hands . . he saith , the unitarians never denied , as his lordship here fancies , that jesus christ made himself a voluntary sacrifice for expiation of the sins of mankind . answ. let us suppose this , what is it then they deny ? they deny , he saith , that this sacrifice was by way of true and proper satisfaction , or full and adequate payment to the justice of god. a. that there might be a sacrifice of expiation where there was no full and adequate payment to the justice of god , is true , because it is not possible , saith the apostle , that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins . but the case is not the same in this sacrifice , ( for that which is denied to the former , is yet granted and given to the sacrifice of christ , heb. . , . ) which may not improperly be called a satisfaction and payment ; and if so , in regard of the dignity of the person , may be said to be full and adequate ; since as sins are called debts , so sinners are debtors to the justice of god's law , in respect of which we are said to be redeemed by the blood of christ , as captives or condemned persons were redeemed by silver and gold , pet. . , . but yet we are not come to the bottom of their doctrine ; for when we might reasonably have thought the controversy to be at an end ( since they grant that christ was an expiatory sacrifice for our sins ) they take all away again by an explication that makes the sacrifice no sacrifice , and the expiation no expiation . for he thus determines the point . . we say this sacrifice ( as all other sacrifices ) was only an oblation or application to the mercy of god. or as it follows , he suffered for our sakes , that he might recommend us to the mercy and forgiveness of god. a. i have said before , by this account of an expiatory sacrifice , the expiation is no expiation ; for the definition here given of an expiatory sacrifice , is this , that ' t is only an oblation , application , or recommendation of a person to the mercy and forgiveness of god. now that can be no definition of a thing , which is as well applicable to a thing of another nature , as to the thing defined : and that is the case here , for according to this definition of an expiatory sacrifice , intercession would be such a sacrifice . for it may be thus described , intercession is only an oblation , application , or recommendation of another to the mercy and forgiveness of god. so that in effect , an expiatory sacrifice is no other than an intercession . and then indeed we , and i think mankind ( except our author , and those of his way ) have been under a great mistake , that have been taught , that sacrifices of expiation were instead of the offender , in whose sufferings he was reputed to suffer , and upon whose sufferings and penal death , he was supposed to be in a respect discharged . . the mystery on the part of the orthodox is , that the son of god took upon him the form of a servant for our advantage . the mystery on the other side is , that a meer man should be exalted to the honour and worship which belongs only to god. as to the former our author replies , t is more reasonable to suppose with the unitarians , that god hath admitted us to conditions of pardon and favour , for his own mercy's sake , and in contemplation of the unblemish'd life , and voluntary sufferings and sacrifice of christ jesus ; than to suppose with his lordship , and his party , that god himself took on him the form of a servant , and suffer'd in our steads , to reconcile us to himself . answ. . he might as well suppose , that 't is more reasonable that god should admit us to conditions of pardon and favour , for his own mercy's sake , than for the sufferings and sacrifice of christ. for what needed such a sacrifice , and the son of god to be exposed to such extremities , when god could have pardoned men for his own mercy's sake , as well without these sufferings of christ , as without a satisfaction . . what he supposes is very absurd that god should admit us to conditions of pardon , upon the contemplation of the voluntary sacrifice of christ ; and yet that he did not suffer in our stead , nor to reconcile us to god. for substitution , or to die in the stead of another , is of the nature of an expiatory sacrifice : and he might as well say , christ is our intercessor without mediating for us ; as that he was our sacrifice , and not be sacrificed for us ; or be a sacrifice for us , and yet not suffer in our stead . . 't is not more reasonable to suppose god admitted us to conditions of pardon for his own mercy's sake , than it is to suppose that he suffer'd in our steads , and to reconcile us to god : for that is not unreasonable which hath god for its author . but will he say , the difficulty is not yet solved ; for 't is god's reconciling us to himself , and suffering for himself , and paying to himself the debt of the debtor , and satisfying the wrong done to himself ? which saith he is a mock-satisfaction , such a ridiculous so●ne , that begets laughter or contempt in considering men . surely he means such as himself , that writes considerations . our author is so used to forget himself , to leave out , put in , or alter , that he can no more flip an occasion , ( how small soever ) than those that are used to another way , can let go an opportunity , though it be but a a petty-larceny . thus he saith , his lordship and his party suppose that god himself suffer'd in our steads , as well as took on him the form of a servant . now to say the truth , his lordship had not this scene in his eye under mystery the th ; for in that he is speaking of the incarnation of our saviour , when he took on him the form of a servant ; but it was in mystery the th that he spoke of christ's sufferings and sacrifice . his lordships words are , the son of god took upon him the form of a servant ; so that he was so far from saying , god suffer'd in our stead , &c. that he did not so much as say , the son of god suffer'd in our stead , ( though it be true . ) but will he say , is not this all one , when he that suffer'd and died , is , in our opinion , god as well as man ? i answer no , with respect to his observations . for restore son of god to its place ( as it is in his lordship ) instead of god , and then we shall see the difference . as : 't is more reasonable to suppose with the unitarians , that god hath admitted us to terms of pardon for his own mercy's sake , &c. than that his son should suffer in our stead , to reconcile us to god. . it 's an incomprehensible mystery , that god should rather chuse to send his son to suffer for us , than to forgive us . . 't is a paradox , for the son of god to pay the debt of the debtor to god , and to satisfy for the wrong done to him. how is the scene changed upon this ? and where doth the absurdity lie ? while indeed he put god in the place of the son of god , it look'd somewhat speciously ; but restore the term son of god to its place instead of god , and the pretended absurdity lies apparently at his own door . but may he urge , don't you acknowledge the son of god to be god ? and then it may be as well said , god himself suffer'd in our stead , &c. as the son of god suffer'd , &c. i answer , god ( as that signifies the divine nature in christ ) could not suffer : all that we say is , that the person that took upon himself the form of a servant was god , and not man , before such an assumption of humane nature : that when he assumed that nature , he was god as well as man ; and that person who was god suffer'd in humane nature , but the godhead or god no more suffer'd and died when christ died , than the manhood could be omnipresent and immortal , because the godhead was so ; or the soul die , when the man is said to die . . i answer further , that the son of god is not the father ; and that there being such an incommunicable personality , if i may so speak , those things belong to the son that could not belong to the father . and as the father was not incarnate but the son , so the son became responsible , and paid the price of our redemption to the father ; and therefore it was the act of the son that was god , and not of the godhead , as common to three persons to reconcile us to god. as to the mystery on their own side , the worship of a meer man , it has been already consider'd , only he should have had some moderation in his charge , when he saith his lordship might as well have accus'd them of sodomy or witchcraft , as of giving proper divine worship to a creature , to the man christ jesus ; when his party owns it , and he himself makes a feeble excuse for it . for , saith he , if it is a mistake , 't is simple error , not mystery , much less idolatry . now , methinks , 't is an unintelligible mystery , that there should be a proper divine worship , peculiar to god ; and yet there be no idolatry in giving the same to a creature . 't is an incomprehensible mystery again to say , the giving proper divine worship to a creature , is not idolatry . 't is a mystery again , that the church of rome should be charged with idolatry , for giving divine worship to creature-mediators , and yet in these persons 't is simple error . 't is a mystery again , that christ should be esteemed by them a god , and so constituted by god , and yet there be no small inconvenience with respect to the vulgar to have him so called . 't is a mystery again , that st. paul blames them who do service to such as are not gods : and yet if god himself had set them up , and given them the name above every name , and they had not mistook in the kind , nor exceeded in the degree of that service they did to them , they should not have been blamed . and so the saints and angels might have been made objects of worship as well as christ , and the virgin mary might have been established queen of heaven , and a hyperdulia accordingly given to her . so that he has made as pretty a defence in this part for the creature-worship of the church of rome , as their heart can wish , and as he has made for transubstantiation in the next part. d proposition is , the way or manner of saving sinners by christ , taught by the church , is more for the benefit of mankind , than the socinian hypothesis . this i shall be as short upon as he ; and till i see an answer to what his lordship has said , and was also said by the archbishop upon that argument , i shall rest contented , and not think the proposition evertheless true or pertinent , for his saying ' t is neither true , nor to the purpose . to the reverend dr. williams . reverend sir , i understand that you are now about a vindication of the late archbishop of canterbury's sermons concerning the trinity , in answer to the animadversions that were made upon them . i am very glad so great an argument is in so good a hand : but since the animadverter gave a late discourse of mine a share of the same book , i think it may be proper , that somewhat in justification of what i writ , should accompany this performance of yours : and because every man is naturally more the master of his own thoughts than another , though in other respects he may be much superior to him ; i shall therefore give you a particular account of what occurs to me , with relation to my discourse on this subject , and shall leave it to you , either to publish it with your book , in the same simplicity in which i am forced to write at this distance from my books and collections , or which will be much to the advantage of what i am to offer to you , though it may put you to a little more trouble , i leave it to you to draw such things out of this paper as seem of the greatest weight , and mix them with your own composition . by this they will appear with those solid characters of true judgment and learning , by which all your writings are distinguished . i shall without any farther preamble , enter upon the matter that is before me ; and shall in the first place offer you some general considerations , before i come to what is more particular and critical . the foreign writers of this author's persuasion , have indeed in their way of writing , set a pattern to the world : their stile has been grave and modest , free from reflection or levity . they have pursued their point with a strain that deserves great commendation . but those , who have taken great liberties with them , have said , that this was only an artifice to soften the horror that their opinions were apt to give ; and to possess the world with such favourable thoughts of their persons and doctrines , as might both remove prejudices , and dispose all men to believe well of those who seemed full of a christian spirit ; and they have been apt to suspect , that as their numbers and their hopes might encrease , they would change their stile , and raise their spirits . this writer has done what lay in him , to justify those suspicions . it seems he thinks the party is now so strong , that the hard words of nonsense , contradiction , and absurdity , may be let fly liberally ; though upon so grave a subject , modester words would have imported full as much , and would have had a much better appearance . he loves also to divert himself as oft as he can : i had in the general part of my discourse said , that since there may be mysteries in the divine essence that are far beyond all our apprehensions ; therefore if god lets out any hints of any such to us , we are to receive them in such a plain sense as the words do naturally bear . from hence he runs division upon the word hint ; and studies to make the whole appear ridiculous : though when i come to treat of the proofs that ought to be relied on in this matter , i had laid this down for a ground , that in so sublime a point , there ought to be a greater fulness of express words , than for bare precepts of morality , or more easily received notions : and that we ought not to suppose , that if god intended to reveal any thing to us that should pose our vnderstandings , he would only do it in hints , or in words and expressions of doubtful signification , and that therefore those who denied mysteries , had a right to demand full and copious proofs of them . the taking notice of this would have been more sincere , but some of the mirth into which hints led him , would have been spoiled by it . i mention no other strains of this sort , though he does often with the same candour and modesty endeavour to make those he writes against look ridiculous ; which is pursued so flatly , that one would think that the civil and more artificial words with which he begins his considerations , were writ by another pen , but were in the management spoiled by his own . to pass over his many indecent reflections , especially when nothing of that sort was used , to give a provocation or colour for such returns ; there is another imputation of a much higher nature , which deserves a severer expostulation . he frequently reflects on the aws , and other biasses , and interests , that he apprehends are the considerations which engage men to persist in the persuasions which he writes against . this is , with a slight disguise , to say , that because the law would turn men out of their benefices , if they owned the contrary doctrine , therefore to save these , they not only speak and write , but worship god in acts that are plainly against their consciences . this is often repeated , though perhaps more broadly in the other considerations , than in those that relate to my self . i reckon my self to be equally involved with my brethren in the imputation ; and will therefore answer it with the solemnity that so grave a matter requires : i call god to witness , how unjust , as well as black , this accusation is . if i did not sincerely believe this doctrine , i should think it a horrid prevaricating with god and man , to make confessions which i do not believe , and to join in acts of worship which i think idolatrous . no man of conscience can think himself clear of so criminal an imputation by holding his peace , when those confessions of faith are made ; his standing up to them , nay , his continuing in the communion of the church that uses them , is a plain avowing of them : and he must live and die in a state of damnation , who can make those professions , and continue in such solemn acts of worship , when all this is a lying both to god and man. the blackest part of the charge of idolatry which we lay on the church of rome , is a mild thing compared to this , if true . here is not only material , but formal idolatry committed in the highest instances possible , if we worship one as the great god , whom we believe to be but a mere creature . a man who can upon any consideration whatsoever , sell himself at this rate , can have neither conscience nor religion ; no sincerity , nor true piety : if this insinuation carried only a personal reflection on our selves ; though the injustice of it be very great , yet it might be more easily passed over , if it were not for the great advantage it gives to atheistical and prophane minds , who are inclined enough to think that all the professions of religion which men make , are only matters of custom or of interest : these are now fortified as much as the credit of this writer can amount to . when some persons of whom the world has not otherwise had very ill impressions , are represented as over-aw'd and biass'd by interest , to go against their conscience , and to lye daily to god , and deceive the world by false professions ; no wonder that religion it self should pass for a cheat , if things of this nature could be generally believed . men who could sell and stifle their consciences at this rate , might as well deliver themselves up to all immoralities , and should make no scruple to go over to all the corruptions of the church of rome , where they might make the better bargain , and be much less guilty than this writer would make us seem to be . god , who knows the sincerity of our hearts and of our professions , will i hope both clear us from so base an imputation , and forgive those who either lay it on us themselves , or do too easily believe it upon the suggestions of others . as in this , so in several other respects our socinians seem to be serving the designs of the atheists . this writer is not contented to weaken the credit of the books that are believed to be s. john's ; but studies to make the whole bible pass for a vitiated and corrupted book ; and that these corruptions are as ancient as epiphanius's time ; because that father speaks of some places that were found in the copies that had not been corrected ; upon which he concludes , that some have been modelling the common bibles far above twelve hundred years . this is the very plea of the mahometans , who do not deny the bulk of the christian religion , which is acknowledged in the alcoran , they only say that the new testament is much altered from what it was at first , the christians having put in and left out a great deal of it : or to use this writers word , they having modelled it anew . if this be as true , as it is boldly assorted , there is indeed very little regard due to that volume , about which he thinks there has been so much dishonest dealing ; and that for so many ages . the opening this matter , he thinks would rase the very foundations of babylon ; he might have rather said of the christian religion . for if the books that are the text of it are so mangled , what certainty is there left about any part of it ? he does not seem to design this as a service to the church of rome ; where the currant doctrine is , that no submission is due to the scriptures , but as they are attested and explained by the church ; tho' the great pains he takes to excuse transubstantiation , looks very kindly towards them . the true consequence of this must be , that the scripture may ( perhaps ) contain many good things : but that we are sure of nothing concerning it ; since it has had so strange a sate upon it for so long a time . this is to be answered only by attacking him as a downright deist , by proving that we have the scriptures genuinely conveyed down to us . the attempts of a mercenary critick on this head ought not to pass upon us ; who know how little regard he has to any religion . no doubt there was anciently great care taken to compare the manuscripts of the bible . in some copies , marginal notes and glosses might have been mixt with the text ; and copied out as a part of it : and that might be discovered by other more correct copies . this is all that can be gathered from epiphanius's words ; how much further soever an impious critick may endeavour to stretch them . there is no harm done by attacking our translation ; or by shewing the various readings of some copies , and endeavouring to establish the true reading , from ancient copies or quotations : but it strikes at the whole , to accuse all the copies now extant , as having been long vitiated by fraud , and on design . i shall offer you but one other general consideration , on that part of this writers book , in which he thinks he has the greatest advantage given him because there have been some different methods taken , in explaining , the trinity , in which some seem to have adhered so much to the vnity of the deity , that their trinity seems unconceivable ; while others have asserted such a trinity as seems inconsistent with vnity , he represents us all as so divided and broken , that we agree in nothing , but in the maintaining of some terms and phrases against them : in which we have very different apprehensions from one another . this seems to give scandal to some good minds , as well as advantage to bad ones : and therefore it ought to be well explained . there is then a great difference to be made between that which is a part of our religion , and those conceptions by which we may more distinctly set it forth , both to our selves and others . to make this more sensible by instances that are forreign to this matter : many protestants have different apprehensions concerning the manner of christ's presence in the sacrament ; some asserting consubstantiation , others a real presence , and others only a figurative one : but all agreeing , that this is a sacred institution of christ's , accompanied with a divine vertue and blessing , to those who worthily receive it , by which the benefits of the death of christ are conveyed to them ; they are all of the same religion , who do agree in this , tho' they have different methods of apprehending and explaining the matter . in like manner , as to the decrees and providence of god ; some think that all arises from the antecedent and fixed acts of god ; whereas others believe that a foresight of all future events is to be considered as antecedent to those acts : upon these two supposions , there seem to be very different ideas formed of the power , wisdom , justice , goodness , and truth of god , and yet all who confess a providence , who adore it , submit to it , and depend upon it , are of the same religion ; for in these consists religion with relation to providence . religion being the sense that we have of god and divine matters , by which our minds go towards him , in acts conform to it . therefore all those who do worthily receive the sacrament , or sincerely acknowledge providence , have the same religion upon these heads , how different soever their explanations of them may be . so as to this great point , all those who worship god as one , and who do also worship the son , and the holy ghost , together with the father , as god , have truly the same religion , the same acts of piety and adoration ; tho' some of them may have different ways of explaining either the vnity of the essence , or the trinity of the persons . if this is well weighed , i hope it will put an end to the insultings of some , and the offences of others . i confess the less men go into explanations , it will be the better , and the less liable to censure : unless it be to offer such illustrations , as rather shew how a thing may be explained , than affirm how it ought to be explained : and therefore since god is unsearchable , and past finding out , to perfection , the best method is to consider what is the clear meaning of these texts of scripture , that declare any of those depths to us , and to judge of them according to the plain importance of the words , examining that by the context , the stile and phraseology of the scriptures , and by all the other indications by which we may find out their true meaning . this leads me to the first remark that i shall make on this writer's considerations which fall on me , and on that part of my discourse that relates to mysteries in general . he yields that there may be great difficulties in some things , of the truth of which we do not doubt ; but then , says he , we are well assured that these things are truly so : whereas some ambiguous words of scripture cannot give us such an assurance concerning pretended mysteries . but all that i aimed at in this part of my discourse was , that if any such things should happen to be revealed to us in the scriptures , that then we should be bound to believe them , notwithstanding all objections to the contrary : as we believe the objects of sense and reason , tho' we cannot answer all those difficulties that arise about them ; for if we are once sure , that such books are come from god , and that they are faithfully handed down to us ; then , unless we will submit to an infallible tribunal , we must trust our own reasons with the finding out of the true and plain meaning of them : when that is found out , we are as much bound to believe it , as we can be to believe any of the objects of sense : since this is laid down for a truth , contested by none , that god is the god of truth , and cannot lie . there lies no exception against any part of this discourse ; since it runs all upon the supposition , that the thing is clearly revealed in the scripture ; and that yet there lie as unanswerable difficulties against it , as against those truths which our senses or reasons do attest to us . the excursion made by him to excuse transubstantiation , is not so much meant in favour of it , as in opposition to these ( pretended ) mysteries ; but indeed it is so little to the purpose , that it seems to me not to deserve to be examined . my words are not faithfully reported by him ; for whereas i had said , that we had the fullest evidence of sense against it , in an object of sense ; he has left out fullest , and then diverts himself by shewing how the evidence of sense may be mistaken ; as in an our that appears crooked in water , with other instances of the like force ; whereas all this had failed , if he had considered the importance of the word fullest , that is , an evidence given with all the exactness , and after all the corrections that sense can lay before us . sense it self has led us into a whole theory of refractions , according to the medium through which we see an object pass : what he says about accidents , is too slight to be remarked : we see the same objects in the same manner after their pretended transubstantiation , that we saw before it ; therefore either our senses are not infallible in their strictest application to their proper objects , or they are as true after transubstantiation as they were before it . the inference after all that he would draw from what he says upon this head , shall be easily acknowledged by me ; that where the evidence of reason is as plain and full against an object of reason , as the evidence of sense is here concerning an object of sense , that there we have very good ground to reject it . if it were pretended that god were both one and three in the same respect , the evidence of reason against this is so clear , that i acknowledge that no authority whatsoever ought to induce us to believe it : but if it is revealed that the same being is both one and three , then since the notion of vnity is capable of such difference , since also that of diversity is of the same largeness , and since the same being may be one in one respect , and more in another ; this opposition between such vnity and such trinity , is no proper object of reason , nor can reason give us a full evidence , much less the fullest against it . i think there remains nothing to be considered on this head , except the scorn with which he treats me ; which i thank god i can very easily bear , and will make no returns . he might after all , treat those matters for which so many persons of worth and learning have so particular a veneration , with more modesty . it seems he thought a boldness of expression , and a scorn of his adversaries , would have some effect on ordinary readers ; which very probably it may have ; but better judges will put another construction upon it . i wish him a better temper , and so i leave him , to come to the main argument on which i had chiefly relied . i will only say this for an introduction to it , that the best rule of criticism is to consider the whole thread , strain , and phraseology of a book , and not to descant upon the various significations that the words themselves taken severally may be capable of . the not considering this aright , seems to have given the occasion to all the odd comments of the socinians . the name jehovah was the peculiar designation that was appropriated to god in the old dispensation . this the seventy have rendred quite through their whole translation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and through the whole new testament this is the designation that is given to christ , sometimes with , and sometimes without the article , and other emphatical words : from which , since the greatest part of the new testament was particularly and in the first place addressed to the jews , great numbers of whom read the old testament at that time most commonly in greek ; this conformity of stile seems very plainly to demonstrate , that christ was the true jehovah ; or at least that the true jehovah dwelt in him . in answer to this , he denies that jehovah was the peculiar designation of god , and sets up an argument for this , of which i had made no use , and then he pretends to answer it ; for after he has quarrelled with our translation of a verse in the psalm , and has laid aside some other translations of those words , he at lasts settles on this as the true one , thou whose name is jehovah , art alone the most high over all the earth . i will at present accept of this translation ; for it yeilds all that i pretend to , that jehovah was the known name of god in that dispensation . i will not enter into the rabinical niceties concerning it , as whether it signified the essence or eternity of god , or whether it imported only god's being in covenant with them , and the truth and stability of his promises : whatsoever might be the proper signification of the word jehovah , it was at first delivered to moses in such a manner , that there was no need to go to any of the psalms to find out that it was the name by which god made himself particularly known to the jews . that whole discourse with moses in exodus , is spoken by god in the first person : i am the god of thy father , — i have seen , — i am come down , — i will send thee : here is no intimation of a message carried by an angel , but plainly the contrary : and when moses asked how he should answer them that should ask him what was his name ; god said unto him , i am that i am . these words come very near the formation of the word jehovah ; and it is plain by what is said three chapters after that , i am the lord , or jehovah ; and i appeared unto abraham , and unto isaac , and unto jacob by the name of god almighty ; but by my name jehovah was i not known to them . it is clear , i say , that by that first apparition to moses , the name jehovah was then understood : and it is expresly said , this is my name for ever , this is my memorial throughout all generations . to all this he may object , that in the beginning of that vision it is said , that an angel of the lord appeared to moses in a flame of fire : from which it may be inferred , that all that is set down there , was said by this angel , who speaks in the name of god , and assumes his person as being sent by him ; and that therefore this name may be given to any one who speaks in the name of god. but that vision of the angel will import no more , but that an angel appeared in the fire ; and by that moses was led to go towards the bush , and then god himself did immediately speak . this agrees with the whole context , and puts no force on any part of it : whereas it is a very violent strain to make an angel thus speak as if he were the great god , without any intimation given that he only spake in his name . this agrees with that general remark of the jewish writers , who observe that when ever the sheckinah appeared , angels accompanied it . this a grees also with what is said often in the new testament , that the law was given by angels , though it is said as plain as words can make a thing , that god himself appeared ; that is , that by an immediate act of his own power , he made all those glorious representations to be seen , and the voice of the ten commandments to be heard . to this also belong those words of christ concerning his appearing at the last day , in his own glory ; in his father's glory ; and in the glory of his angels : together with all that is said of angels appearing with him at the final judgment : the charge given to st. paul , before god , the lord jesus , and the elect angels , does also agree with this . so that the angel that first appeared to moses , was only one of the attendants on this sheckinah , or manifestation of god himself . any name that is given to a place , into the composition of which jehovah enters , such as jehovah isidkenu given to jerusalem , is too slight a thing to be stood upon . it is therefore plain , that jehovah was a name peculiarly appropriated to god in the old testament , which the seventy do always render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so since christ is all through the new testament called by the same name , this argument has great force ; nor is it shaken by the giving the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as a common compellation to other persons ; as we say sir , or lord ; which , as is not to be denied , occurs frequently in the new testament ; but the use of it in a particular discourse , where it is restricted to that person , cannot be compared to a constant stile of calling christ simply , and without limitation , lord , the lord , my lord , or our lord , as the designation that belonged properly to him . soon after the new testament was written , domitian would be called dominus simply . now this was looked on as a strain of insolence beyond what the former emperors had assumed : for though the word dominus , as applied to some particular thing , implied no more , but that such a thing belonged to such a person ; yet the term dominus without a restriction , imported that all the romans were his slaves , and that he was the master of all their properties . the same is to be applied to the use of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : in a limited sense it signifies not much ; but in so large and so general a sense , it must be understood to be equivalent to the common use of that word in the septuagint translation . st. paul rejects their being called the servants of men with a just indignation : and yet if christ is but a man , and at the same time the lord of all , he was no better than the servant of a man. so i think this argument is not weakned by any thing that this writer has offered against it . i had brought a confirmation of it from the prophecy of haggai , of filling the second temple with glory : nothing was built upon the addition of his glory ; so that this writer might have concluded , that there was no design , but only the want of exactness in using it . filling with glory , was that upon which the force of this argument was laid . i shall not enlarge here to shew , that by glory in the old testament , the sheckinah is generally to be understood . st. paul thought so ; for in one place reckoning up the priviledges of the jews , he says theirs is the glory , and the covenants ; and in another place describing the holiest of all , he speaks of the cherubims of glory . so that by glory with relation to the temple , that immediate manifestation of god , could only be meant : this is also confirmed from the word fill , which cannot be applied to any building or decoration , but must be meant of somewhat that was to be shed abroad in the temple . all this will appear very plain if we consider the last words of the book of exodus , where this phrase is first used . the tabernacle was set up with every thing relating to it , according to the directions that god had given to moses ; and then it is said , that a cloud covered the tent of the congregation , and the glory of the lord filled the tabernacle : which is again repeated in the next verse . these words are also repeated when the history of the dedication of solomon's temple is given ; it is said , that the cloud filled the house of the lord ; and in the next verse it is repeated , that the glory of the lord had filled the house . this gives the true key to the understanding of haggai's prophecy , which must be explained according to the mosaic phrase : this gives the key likewise to understand those words of the fulness of the godhead that dwelt bodily in christ , and of our receiving of his fulness . but to apply that prophecy , as this writer does , to the rebuilding the temple by herod , agrees no ways with the words that accompany it , on which i had chiefly built ; of his giving peace in that place , and of his shaking the heavens , and the earth , and all nations : to that he has not thought fit to make any sort of answer ; and yet either these are only pompous words that signify nothing , or they must signify somewhat beyond any thing that can be ascribed to what herod did . that which is the only key by which we can be led into the sense of those words , i mean the words of exodus and kings , does in no sort belong to it : whereas the prophecy was literally accomplished by christ's coming into the mountain of the house , if the sheckinab lodged in him in a more eminent manner than it had done in solomon's temple . so , i think , no part of this argument is shaken . to this i shall add another remark , which in some sort belongs to this matter , though in his book it stands at some distance from that which i am now upon . he insults much upon the advantage he thinks he has , because in a place of the romans , it is in our bibles , god blessed for ever ; whereas he thinks god is not a part of the text. i will not at present enter upon the discussion of that , but shall only observe , that the force of the argument from that place , lies chiefly upon the word , blessed for ever . after the jews began to think that the name jehovah was so sacred , that it was not to be read , instead of it they used this circumlocution , the holy , and the blessed , sometimes both together , sometimes the one , and sometimes the other . this was a practice in use in our saviour's time : one of the evangelists says , that the high priest asked , if christ was the son of god ; the other reports it , that he asked if he was the son of the blessed : and st. paul in that same epistle speaking of the creator , adds blessed for ever ; a form of speech that among them was equivalent to jehovah ; and therefore when he says the same of christ , it was a customary form of speech , importing that he was jehovah . so whether the word god was in the original text , or not , the place is equally strong to this purpose . the next argument that i insisted on , was the worship that is paid to christ in the new testament ; which as it has in it self great force , so it seemed to have the more weight upon this account , because it must be confessed , that the jews who could not be unacquainted with the worship of the christians , never objected that to them , if we believe the apostles to have writ sincerely : they mention their other prejudices , and answer them , but say nothing of this : which shews , that if they are allowed to be candid writers , there was no such prejudice then set on foot . and yet if christ was worshipped in the arian , or socinian hypothesis , this was so contrary to the fundamental notions of the jews at that time , that we cannot imagine that they could pass it over , who were concerned on so many accounts to blacken the christian religion , and to stop its progress : therefore there being no other notion in which this worship could give them no offence , but that of the godheads dwelling bodily in him ; and since they were not offended at it , we cannot conceive that there was then any other idea of this matter , but this , which was both suitable to their doctrines , and to the practice of their ancestors during the first temple . this seems to be such a moral argument , as goes farther to satisfy a man's mind , than even stricter proofs will do : as some presumptions do convince men more effectually than the most positive evidence given by witnesses . to all this he has thought fit to say nothing but in these words ; there are abundance of exceptionable things in that discourse , to which i have neither leisure nor inclination to reply , as some others ( perhaps ) would . a man who is at leisure to write against any discourse , should give himself the leisure to consider the most important things that are in it , especially if they seem to be new. as for his inclinations , i will not be so severe as to judge of them ; though what he has said to question the authority of the new testament , as we now have it , gives a handle to a very heavy suspition , that he thought this was not to be answered , but by a more explicite attack made upon the whole new testament , than he thought fit to adventure upon at present . he goes on alledging some instances where god and creatures seem to be mixed in the same acts and expressions : the people worshipped the lord and the king. st. paul is adjured before god , christ , and the elect angels . the people greatly feared the lord and samuel ; and they believed the lord and moses . from which he infers , that both kings and prophets were worshipped and believed without any idolatry . if we had no other warrants for the worship of jesus christ , but such general words , i should easily acknowledge that there were no great force in them : the falling down to him prostrate , and worshipping him while he was here on earth , and the believing what he then said , will not infer adoration : but the prayers offered up to him now that he is in heaven , the command of honouring the son , even as the father is honoured ; the worship that angels and saints in heaven offer to him , are such evident . characters of divine honour , that we have lost all the notions of idolatry , if these things can be offered to a creature . this writer would indeed reduce all this to as narrow a point as can be ; as if christ did only in the vertue of his death , offer up on our behalf a general intercession ; for he doubts whether there is any special intercession made for us or not . the story of st. paul's conversion is plainly contrary to this : st. paul praying to him when he was in his temptation by the messenger of satan , and the answer he obtained , do very clearly shew christ's immediate hearing and answering of prayer ; which is urged by socinus himself with great force against those who did not worship the lord jesus . st. stephen died worshipping him , and praying , lord jesus receive my spirit ; and , lord lay not this to their charge . these are such express authorities of a spiritual worship , which do so fully explain the meaning of that general rule , that all men should honour the son , even as they honour the father ; that the invocating and worshipping of christ is as fully set forth in the new testament , as any one part of the christian religion whatsoever . invocation must import both omniscience , and omnipresence , as well as omnipotency . we call on him as supposing that he is near us , that he hears us , and both will and can help us . now this writer had best consider how all this can be offered to a meer creature . the honour or worship that we give to the father , is the acknowledging his infinite perfections , together with the tender of our homage to him . this cannot be offered to a creature , without manifest impiety : nor can any such worship become ever the matter of a divine precept ; because there is an essential incongruity between these acts and a created object ; and by consequence , there is an essential immorality in them . now that all idolatry should be so severely forbid in the new testament , and yet so grosly practised in it , must be indeed a very strong argument against the whole christian religion , if christ was a meer creature , which cannot be excused by any softenings whatsoever . but since this is a consideration so much insisted upon , it may be proper to open it with its utmost force : when the new testament was writ , there were four sorts of men that could only be considered by the pen-men of it ; st . the jews , to whom it was to be offered in the first place . they were strongly possessed against all the appearances of idolatry ; and had never prayed to moses nor elijah , the chief of their prophets . dly . the gentiles , they were abandoned to all the several sorts of idolatry , from all which they were to be reclaimed , and to be taught to serve and worship none but the living god. dly . the false christians , that began early to corrupt christianity , and to suit it with judaism and paganism : they set themselves against the apostles , and studied to raise their own credit , by derogating from theirs . the th . were the true christians , who were generally weak and ignorant , who needed milk , and were not capable of hard or sublime things . with respect to all these , we ought to believe that such a point , as at first view might offend the jews , and harden the gentiles in their idolatry ; as might give advantage to false christians , and be a stumbling-block to the true ones , was to be plainly and simply delivered ; not in pompous expressions , or figures that might seem to import more than was meant by them ; but in measured and severe words . the nature of man carries him too easily to idolatry ; so that this inclination was to be resisted and not complied with ; and yet st. john begins his gospel with a solemn set of phrases , that are as it were the frontispiece and introduction to it : which if the exposition of these men is to be admitted , must be only a lofty saying of ordinary matter in very high-flown expressions . such likewise must be the second chapter to the philippians , with a great deal more of the same strain . if it was meant by all this to worship christ as the true jehovah , that is , as having the eternal word , and the fulness of the godhead dwelling in him , then the matter was properly expressed , and suitably to the doctrine and practice of the old testament , and was delivered in a phrasiology agreeing with it . but if a new doctrine was introduced concerning a man that was made a god , that was so called , and was to be worshipped as such , here was such a stumbling-block laid in mens way , and so little care taken either to restrain those excesses into which humane nature is apt to run , or to explain the scruples and difficulties that must naturally arise upon it ; that it seems to be scarce conceivable how any can entertain this , and yet retain any value for that religion ; i must confess i cannot ; and it is so natural for a man to judge of others by himself , that i do not think others do it , or indeed can do it . i mentioned some other passages of the new testament , and i did but mention them , because others have examined them so critically , that nothing was left for me to say upon them . but to all these this writer opposes a very specious thing ; he says there is not one of all those passages , but some one or other of the most learned assertors of the trinity , has translated or interpreted them to another sense : upon which he takes occasion , according to the modesty of his stile , to reproach me for my confidence ; he thinks , that assuredly i will be ashamed of such rhetorications . it is certain , that when a great many passages look all one way , though every one of them singly might not come up to a full proof ; yet the combination of them all shews such a phraseology running through the scriptures , that the conjunction of them all together , gives a much fuller satisfaction to the mind , than any one of them , or indeed all of them taken severally could do : many circumstances about a fact concurring , grow up to a proof ; which any one , or indeed all of them , in their own nature , could not amount to : and therefore if such a stile runs through the scriptures , that at every step a man feels himself straitned , and that he must disintangle himself by the subtilties of criticism , and these often very much forced ; a book full of such passages , may be called a book of riddles , darkly writ to puzzle ordinary readers : but it will be hard to maintain a reverence for such writings , to esteem them inspired by god , and delivered to plain and simple readers as a lamp , or light for their instruction , that by them the man of god may be made perfect . the concurrence of those passages , the thread of them , and the stile of the whole , has a force beyond what is in every one of them apart . if therefore all criticks have not been equally certain of the force of every one of them , this will not weaken the argument from them all together . criticks are like other men , apt to overvalue their own notions , and to affect singularities ; some to raise the strength of those arguments which seem clearest to them , may be willing to make all others look the weaker ; others may study to lessen the credit of such writers , against whom they may have , on other accounts , some secret resentments ; and so they may undermine those arguments on which they had chiefly built . the first great critick that begun the weakning of most of the arguments drawn from texts of scripture on this head , i mean erasmus , did not understand the hebrew so well as he did the greek ; so that he considering the greek phraseology more than that which had arisen from the hebrew and siriack , might often mistake . therefore the diversities among criticks concerning particular places , does not weaken the force of those inferences that are drawn from them ; much less the evidence that arises out of the whole , when laid all together . he thinks i would have done a generous thing if i had acquainted the english reader with the doubtfulness of that passage in st. john ' s epistle , of the three that bear witness in heaven . i cannot oblige any man to read all that i have writ , and so do not charge him for not doing it : i have done that more fully than any that i yet know of , and that in a book , which of all those that i have yet writ , was the most universally read by the most different sorts of people : nor has my doing that so copiously , and in a book of such a nature , scaped some severe , but unjust censures . i will not lye for god , nor suppress a truth that may become an honest man to own . thus i have gone over all that seemed material , and to need explanation , on the first head concerning the divinity of the son of god. i must only explain one thing , with which he concludes those his considerations . i had illustrated this matter by the indwelling of the cloud of glory , and had explained from that , the fulness of the godheads dwelling bodily in christ : from thence he fancies this to be nestorius's doctrine , and that it is also theirs , who own that god ( by his spirit or energy ) was in the lord christ in a very especial and powerful manner : and so he pretends that they submit to my doctrine . i can assure him , that both the spirit with which he writes , and the doctrines which he espouses , are such , that i reckon this the heaviest of all the imputations that he has laid on me ; but it is as just and true as the rest are . we do not certainly know what nestorius's doctrine was , if it was no more than that he did not allow the term of the mother of god to be due to the blessed virgin , as some pretend ; and that all that was further charged on him , was only a consequence drawn from that ; this was no heinous thing : but whatever nestorius himself might be , the opinion charged on him , and condemned by the church , was , that the eternal word in christ , was only of the nature of an assisting power , like the spirit of prophecy in the prophets ; but that it was not so united to him , as to make one person with his human nature . in this sense i have fully condemned that doctrine ; for as the soul is united to the body , and dwells in it , in another manner than a man dwells in a house ; and as the soul actuates the body , in another manner than a man actuates such tools as he works by ; so the union of the human and divine nature in christ is represented in scripture as the compounding one person , as much as in other men the union of soul and body makes one man. if he submits to this doctrine , i shall be glad of it ; for then he submits to a doctrine which , i think , is very expresly revealed in scripture : but for any indwelling , like that of the spirit of prophecy , even in the eminentest degrees imaginable , the epistle to the hebrews does so plainly carry this so much higher , to a thing of quite another nature ; and states such an opposition between christ and all prophets , even moses himself , like that of a son and a servant , that i think the reading that with due attention , will soon satisfy a man , that this indwelling is a vital one , like that of the souls dwelling in the body , and not an assisting one , like inspiration , or the gift of tongues , or of miracles . when christ commanded all to be baptized in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; he plainly mentioned three : if therefore i , to adhere to scripture terms , had avoided the frequent use of any other word but the three , i thought how much soever this might offend others , who might apprehend that i seemed to avoid mentioning of trinity , or persons ( which yet i shewed flowed from no dislike of those words , but merely that i might stick more exactly to scripture-terms ) yet i had no reason to think that men of the other side would have found such fault with this . father , son , and holy ghost , are the three of whom i discourse ; so instead of repeating these words at every time , i shortned it by saying the blessed three : now it is a strain particular to this writer to enlarge on this . i go now to the second head , concerning the death of christ : here this writer affirms that , which if it flows from ignorance , as in charity to him i hope it does , then certainly he ought not to have writ concerning a matter , to the history of which he was so great a stranger . he says , that the doctrine which i propose concerning the propitiation by the death of christ , as an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of the world , has been the very doctrine of the socinians , which they have owned from the beginning in all their books . to seem to justify this , he sets down some of my words , leaving out , with his usual candour , those that were most critical ; for whereas i had said , that christ had suffered on our account and in our stead ; he leaves out these last words , and in our stead ; which are the very words on which the controversy turns , as is well known to those who have studied it to any degree ; the turn being whether christ died nostro bono , or nostro loco : and whereas i had added , that upon the account of christ's death , god offered the world the pardon of sin ; he leaves out that which was most critical here , upon the account of it ; nor does he mention that with which i concluded the period ; and he ( god ) will have us in all our prayers for pardon , or other favours , claim them through that death , and owe them to it . such an unfaithful recital of my words , gives no advantageous character of the rest . it is indeed a strange degree of assurance to make us believe , that the socinians have at all times owned this doctrine ; since not only all their first writers denied it , and the racovian catechism is express to the contrary ; but after grotius had managed the controversy merely in order to the asserting the expiatory vertue of the sacrifice of christ's death , without insisting on the metaphysical notions which had been brought into it ; yet crellius not satisfied with this , endeavoured to answer that whole book , and adhered still to the first notions of socinus . i do not deny , but that since that time some of their followers have come off from them , and have acknowledged the expiatory vertue of that sacrifice : therefore though i have no mind to encrease the number of controversies ; and am very glad when any do forsake their errors , especially such heinous ones ; yet it is a peculiar strain of confidence to say , that this was their doctrine from the beginning . as for the niceties with which the primitive church was not acquainted , and which were not started before anselm's time in the end of the xi th . century , concerning the antecedent necessity of a satisfaction , and the subtleties that the schoolmen did afterwards devise concerning equivalents ; i do not think they belong to this matter , as it stands revealed to us in the scriptures , and therefore i did not insist on them . it is no part of the doctrine of our church ; and dr. outram's learned performance on this subject , has been so universally applauded and acquiesced in , that i thought all men were satisfied from thence , what is the doctrine generally received among us . our articles are the only standard to judge of our doctrine , as far as they go ; but they have determined nothing in this matter , but rest in the general notions of expiation and of reconciling us to god. i have now done with all that part of the late book which falls to my share ; and have made those explanations and reflections upon it , that seemed necessary . i have said this once for all , and shall no more return to it , upon any new provocation whatsoever : such crude and bold attempts , are oftener to be neglected than answered . these men are at best the instruments of the deists , who design by their means to weaken the credit of the christian religion , and of those books that are the standards of it . i hope they do not know whose work they are doing , nor what ends they are serving . i pray god give them a better discerning , and more serious tempers . i wish you may be happily successful in your attempts to undeceive them , as well as in all your other labours , in which you lay out your time and studies so worthily for the service of the church ; for which great is your reward in heaven . i pray god to bless and prosper you in them ; and am with a very particular esteem , reverend sir , your affectionate brother , and most humble servant , gi . sarum . westminster , feb. . the contents . of the authority of st. john's writings . pag. an answer to the objections of our author's ancient unitarians , against the authority of st. john's writings , particularly the gospel and the revelation . of the name unitarians . of ebion and cerinthus . , of the alogi in epiphanius . of the occasion of st. john's writing his gospel . of socinus's exposition of the beginning of st. john's gospel . the unreasonableness and novelty of that exposition . the archbishop's exposition of hebr. . . and col. . . vindicated . of the pre-existence of our saviour . of christ's coming down from heaven ; and the modern socinian exposition of christ's personal ascent into heaven before his ministry . ibid. a vindication of his grace's exposition of john . . john . . revel . . . and john . . of the difficulties and absurdities in the socinian hypothesis . of the incarnation of our saviour . of the argument for the incarnation , taken from the personal union of soul and body . ibid. of the humility of our saviour in his incarnation , and of the fulness of time for it . a vindication of the bishop of worcester's sermon . of things incomprehensible . of the author's self-contradiction . ibid. of god's eternity , and his being of himself , and possessing all at once . several queries about god's possessing all at once , answer'd . socinian mysteries . the bishop of sarum's letter to j.w. of the socinian way of managing controversies . of this author's way of calumniating . his charge of the corruptions in the sacred text consider'd . of the different opinions concerning the trinity ; and that the trinitarians may notwithstanding be said to be of the same religion . the name jehovah peculiarly appropriated to god , and yet given to our saviour . of the name lord ; and of the shechinah among the jews . haggai a. , . and rom. . . explain'd and vindicated . ibid. of the worship given to our saviour . of some modern criticks . of nestorius's doctrine . of the end for which christ died . books lately printed for richard chiswell . memoirs of the most reverend thomas cranmer , archbishop of canterbury . in three books collected chiefly from records , registers , authentick letters , and other original manuscripts . by john strype , m. a. fol. . dr. john conant's sermons . published by dr. williams . . vo . of the government of the thoughts . by geo. tully , sub-dean of york . the second edition . vo . . a commentary on the first book of moses called genesis . by simon lord bishop of ely. to . . the history of the troubles and trial of the most reverend william laud , lord archbishop of canterbury ; wrote by himself during his imprisonment in the tower. to which is prefixed , the diary of his own life faithfully and entirely published from the original copy ; and subjoyned a supplement to the preceding history ; the archbishop's last will ; his large answer to the lord say's speech concerning liturgies ; his annual accounts of his province delivered to the king , and some other things relating to the history . published by henry wharton , chaplain to archbishop sancroft , and by his grace's command . folio . bishop of sarum's sermon at the funeral of archbishops tillotson . — his sermon preached before the king at st. james's chappel on the th of february , / being the first sunday in lent , on cor. . . the possibility , expediency , and necessity of divine revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , january . . at the beginning of the lecture for the ensuing year founded by the honourable robert boyle , esq ; . by john williams , d. d. ( the second sermon is in the press ) . a sermon of holy resolution , preached before the king at kensington , december . . by his grace thomas , lord archbishop of canterbury , elect. advertisement . feb. . / . there will be published several sermons and discourses of the most reverend dr. john tillotson , late lord archbishop of canterbury , by order of his administratrix ; faithfully transcribed from his own papers , by dr. ralph barker , chaplain to his grace ; which are disposed of to richard chiswell , and his assignees . if any person pretend to publish any other , except those already printed , they are to be lookt upon as spurions and false . the first that will be published , are his sermons of sincerity and constancy in the faith and profession of the true religion . which are in the press , and will be finished in easter term next . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e eccles. hist. l. . c. . & . iren. l. . c. . euseb. l. . c. . hieron . eccles . script . sandius de script . eccles . * euseb. l. . c. . † iren. l. . c. . & . euseb. l. . c. . tertull. advers . marcion . c. . hieron . script . eccles. origen . homil. in principio . ephiphan . haer. . . philostrius ●ar . haer. . , . v. wolzegen in loc . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which the latin translator has not reached . * euseb. l. . c. . † serm. . p. . * haer. . . † script . eccles. * advers . haer. l. . c. . v. epiphan . haer. . , , . haer. . iren. l. . c. . l. . c. . haer. . . adv. haer. l. . c. . adv. haer. l. . c. . * praepar . p. . † v. sandius , p. , . * v. archb. serm. . p. . * serm. . p. , &c. * lightf . third part of the harm , in loc . p. . cons. p. , . p. . cons. p. . cons. p. , . cons. . . cons. p. . cons. p. , cons. p. , . p. . p. . cons. p. , . ps. . . ex. . from v. . to the end . v. , , , . v. , , . ex. . , . ex. . . acts . gal. . heb. . mat. . mat. . mark . luke . mat. . mat. . tim. . . jer. . . cons. p. . suct . in dom. gal. . cons. p. , . rom. . heb. . ex. . kings . . , . hag. , , , . col. . john . rom. . cons. p. . mat. . mark . from p. . coll. . cons. p. ibid. chron. . . tim. . . sam. . . ex. . ibid. acts . . cor. , , . acts , . cons. p. . ibid. cons. p. . heb. , , , . mat. . cons. p. , . cons. p. . in lib. cur deus homo . a declaration of the sense of the archbishops and bishops, now in and about london, upon the occasion of their attendances in parliament concerning the irregular and scandalous proceedings of certain clergy-men at the execution of sir john freind [sic] and sir william parkins. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a declaration of the sense of the archbishops and bishops, now in and about london, upon the occasion of their attendances in parliament concerning the irregular and scandalous proceedings of certain clergy-men at the execution of sir john freind [sic] and sir william parkins. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for john everingham ..., [london] : . authorship of the text ascribed by wing and mcalpin catalogue to john williams subsequently bishop of chester. an attack on jeremy collier and others for granting absolution to friend and parkyns. reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng friend, john, -- sir, d. . -- true copy of the papers delivered by sir john freind [sic] and sir william parkins. parkyns, william, -- sir, ?- . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a declaration of the sense of the archbishops and bishops ; now in and about london , upon the occasion of their attendance in parliament ; concerning the irregular and scandalous proceedings of certain clergy-men at the execution of sir john freind and sir william parkins printed for john everingham at the star in ludgate-street , . a declaration of the sense of the archbishops and bishops , &c. a declaration of the sense of the archbishops , and bishops , now in and about london , upon the occasion of their attendance in parliament , concerning the irregular and scandalous proceedings of certain clergie-men , at the execution of sir john freind and sir william parkins . we the archbishops and bishops , now in and about london upon occasion of our attendance in parliament , having seen a printed paper , entituled , a true copy of the papers delivered by sir john freind and sir william parkins to the sheriffs of london and middlesex , at tyburn the place of execution , april . . and being also certainly informed of the most irregular behaviour of mr. cook , mr. collier , and mr. snatt , in pretending to absolve the said criminals at their execution , to the great scandal of the church , and of our holy religion , have therefore thought our selves obliged to declare our sense of the same , as here followeth . . as to the paper before mentioned , we cannot but observe , that in that part to which sir john freind is entituled , among many other things there delivered as his private opinion , ( for which we must leave him to god ) there are mingled some things concerning the church of england , to the great dishonour and reproach of it . that venerable name is , by the author of that paper , appropriated to that part of our church which hath separated it self from the body ; and more particularly , to a faction of them who are so furiously bent upon the restoring of the late king , that they seem not to regard by what means it is to be effected . we have a sad instance of it in this very person , who ( as was deposed at his tryal ) was privy to the horrid design of assassination , and yet neither discovered it , nor shewed any dislike of it , but as he was afraid it might ruine king james and his * affairs ; and was ready also , together with others of the same christian principle ( as the author of his paper is bold to call it , ) to act in conjunction with an army of french papists , for the ruine of their country , and the extirpation of that religion which they themselves do profess . . as for sir william parkins , who also professed to dy in the communion of the church of england , we cannot think he meant any thing elseby it , than that he adhered to the same violent faction : being assured ( as we are by very good information , ) that both he and sir john freind had withdrawn themselves from our publick assemblies some time before their death . which makes us the less wonder to find in both their papers so light , and even favourable , a mention of that most inhumane design of assassinating his sacred majesty : and especially in that of sir william parkins , who , though he was publickly convicted of his having engaged so many in that horrible sin , yet after all could think to clear himself of it with this wretched excuse : 't is true , i was privy to the design upon the prince , but was not to act in it . blessed be god , there never was any of our church , that in any change of times could have this laid to his charge , that he was so much as privy to a design of assassination . lastly , for those clergymen that took upon them to absolve these criminals at the place of execution , by laying , all three together , their hands upon their heads , and publickly pronouncing a form of absolution ; as their manner of doing this was extremely insolent , and without precedent , either in our church , or any other that we know of , so the thing it self was altogether irregular . the rubrick in our office of the visitation of the sick , from whence they took the words they then used , and upon which , if upon any thing in our liturgy , they must ground this their proceeding , gave them no authority nor no pretence for the absolving these persons ; nay , as they managed the affair , they acted in this absolution far otherwise than is there directed . that rubrick is concerning sick persons , and it is there required , first , that the sick person shall be moved to make a special confession of his sins , if he feel his conscience troubled with any weighty matter , and then , after such confession , the priest shall absolve him , if he humbly and heartily desire it . but here they absolved , and that publickly , persons condemned by law for execrable crimes , without so much as once moving them at that time to make a special confession of their sins , at least for those sins for which they were condemned . and on the other side , here were persons absolved that did not humbly desire absolution , as feeling any such weighty matter to trouble their conscience ; but on the contrary , in sir john freind 's paper it is declared that he had a great deal of satisfaction in suffering for that cause , which he firmly believed to be the cause of god , and true religion . if these ministers knew not the state of these mens souls before they gave them absolution , as it is manifest two of them , mr. snatt and mr. cook did not , as to sir william parkins , ( they having since declared that they had not spoke with sir william till they were at the place of execution , ) how could they , without manifest transgression of the churches order , as well as the prophane abuse of the power christ hath left with his ministers , absolve them from all their sins ? if they were acquainted with these mens sentiments declared in their papers , then they must look upon them , either as hardened impenitents , or as martyrs . we are so charitable to believe that they would not absolve them under the former notion ; for that had been , in effect , sealing them to damnation : but if they held these men to be martyrs , then their absolving them in that manner was a justification of those grievous crimes for which these men suffered , and an open affront to the laws both of church and state. upon the consideration of these things , and for the doing of right to our church , which may otherwise suffer , among such as are strangers to our constitution , by the evil principles and practices , both of the aforesaid criminals , and the three clergy-men that assisted them , who all pretended to be members of the church of england : we do declare , that we disown and detest all such principles and practices ; looking upon them as highly schismatical and seditious ; dangerous both to the church and state , and contrary to the true doctrine and spirit of the christian religion . and we also take this occasion to warn and exhort all the people committed to our charge , to beware of such seducers , and to avoid them ; lest ( as the apostle st. peter speaks ) they be led away with the error of the wicked , and fall from their stedfast adherence to the principles of the true church of england , as it was established at the blessed reformation of religion , and as by gods especial providence it continues to this day . april th . . tho. cantuar. jo. ebor. h. london . n. duresme . p. winchester . w. cov. and lich. tho. roffen . sy. eliens . gil. hereford . jo. norwich . ric. peterb . ed. gloucester . rob. chichester . e. asaph . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * tryal p. . a sermon preached before the right honourable the lord mayor, and aldermen of the city of london, at the guild-hall chappel, october . by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached before the right honourable the lord mayor, and aldermen of the city of london, at the guild-hall chappel, october . by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed by m. clark, for r. chiswel, and w. kettilby ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -- great britain -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion edwards mayor . martis . die octobris , . annoque regni regis caroli secundi , angliae , &c. xxxi . this court doth desire mr. williams to print his sermon preached at the guild-hall chappel , on sunday last , before the lord mayor and aldermen of this city . wagstaffe . a sermon preached before the right honourable the lord mayor , and aldermen of the city of london , at the guild-hall chappel , october . . by john williams , rector of st. mildreds poultrey , london . london : printed by m. clark , for r. chiswel , and w. kettilby , at the rose and crown , and at the bishops head in st. pauls church-yard . . to the right honourable sir james edwards , lord mayor of london , and to the court of aldermen : right honourable , what the terms are upon which our church hath stood , with the church of rome , since the reformation , and how well it hath acquitted it self in the matters disputed betwixt us , is very well known to the world. but notwithstanding the power of truth , and the success that hath aforetime attended the endeavours of such as have amongst us maintained it , we have found by experience , that we have of late gained little upon them by all our diligence . what political reasons there are for it besides becomes not me to enquire ; but that our divisions amongst our selves have been a principal one , and given our adversaries both the confidence to set upon us afresh , and also an opportunity of so doing with greater security , is what no one can be ignorant of . this is one evident cause of our present danger , and what we can therefore never hope to avoid , without uniting upon some common principle and foundation . it is this that i have endeavoured to point and make out in the ensuing discourse , with what success i must leave others to judg ; but which i hope may be the better received as it had your approbation , and hath now your order and desire to have it made more publick . in obedience to which i have ventured it abroad , that i may thereby publish how much i am , right honourable , your humble servant john williams . a sermon on ephes. iv . . from whom the whole body fitly joyned together , and compacted by that which every joynt supplieth , according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body , unto the edifying of it self in love . in the beginning of this chapter the apostle doth exhort the ephesians to the christian duty of charity ; and that he may come upon them with the greater advantage , doth make use of several arguments to inforce it , v. , , . taken from the state they are in , and the profession they are of ; that there is one body of which they are members , one spirit by which they are quickned , one hope of eternal life by which they are excited , one lord whom they profess to obey , one faith and form of belief that they imbrace , one baptism by which they are initiated into the church , and one god whom they do depend upon , and from whom they do receive all temporal and spiritual gifts and blessings . and whereas it may be thought that the variety of gifts and officers in the church should minister to contention , he adds , that however they may be abused , and the persons in those circumstances may happen to pervert them , yet as they were primarily intended by christ the dispenser and disposer of all for the order , the safety , and the edification of the church , so they do make much for it , v. , , , . for it is from him that the whole body fitly joyned together and compacted , &c. maketh increase of the body , &c. in which words there is a comparison implyed betwixt the natural body , and the christian church , called the body of christ , v. . that as the natural body doth consist of several parts , and those parts have a dependence upon the head , and are so fitly compacted and united among themselves , that there is a distribution of nourishment to all of them according to their measure and capacity : so there is in the church ( . ) a supream power in christ the head , ( . ) a due subordination of the several parts to the head , ( . ) a strict relation betwixt these several parts to the head and to each other , ( . ) a derivation of all necessary supply from the head ; and from each communicated to the other according to their measure , proportion and relation . all that i shall at present take notice of from hence , is , . the firmness of the union that is to be amongst christians , they are joyned and compacted together ; not only as they are at large members of the catholick church , called here the whole body ; but also as they are more strictly combined , according to the places of their residence , in particular societies and churches ; having officers to guide and minister unto them , and laws by which they regulate themselves in such combinations . this i take to be signified in this verse , ( ) in the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every joynt , which i conceive hath respect to the officers of the church , whether extraordinary , as apostles , prophets and evangelists ; or ordinary , as pastors and teachers , v. . which the apostle saith , v. . were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the perfecting and compacting of the saints , and upon whom the gifts did primarily descend for the edifying of the body of christ , v. . these are as ligaments and joynts to the body , that do move , strengthen , preserve , and secure it , ( . ) it 's further signified in the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every part , by which i conceive is to be understood , with respect to the limbs of a natural body , the particular churches which christians according to their convenience of abode and affairs were cast and distributed into . and this i the rather think , because i find particular christians called often in scripture 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 members of christ , cor. xii . , . but this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , part , is never so applied to any particular person ; and when on other occasions it is made use of , it constantly hath a respect to number and multitude , as , acts xxiii . . one part were jews , &c. and this may further be presumed from what the apostle saith , chap. ii . , . where after he had spoken of the catholick church , of which all christians are fellow-citizens , he proceeds to their particular union as a christian church in that place , v. . in whom ye also are built together for an habitation of god through the spirit . . here is the advantage of such an union , it maketh increase of the body ; and is for the preservation of it , as ver . . doth imply , that we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine , &c. which was to be prevented by the compacting the saints together , ver . . from what hath been hitherto said i observe , . that a constitution or fixed order in the church doth make much for the increase and safety of it , and is necessary towards the propagating and securing of religion . . that a constitution which takes in these ends is to be regarded . i shall at this time chiefly apply my self to the latter , viz. the securing of religion , and i shall do it in this following order . . by shewing that the preservation of a church and religion , is mainly depending upon a setled order and constitution . . by considering what that constitution is , particularly with respect to our selves , in this nation , and our present circumstances . . by shewing what regard is to be given to such a constitution , and how far it 's the interest of every true protestant to comply with it . first , i shall shew that the preservation of a church and religion is mainly depending upon a setled order and constitution . when i speak of the great security of the church , the respect which it hath therein primarily to god the great patron of it , is to be supposed , who can and will protect it against the most formidable powers which may threaten and invade it : and when i speak of other security , i am to be understood of prudential and rational means , and what is to be done in that way on our part in order thereunto : and of this sort i take a constitution to be . without this there cannot be a church , i.e. without laws and officers for direction ; without having the work of those officers set forth and described ; and without a people that bear such a respect to those officers , and to each other as the laws agreed upon do require . for if every person be at liberty to be what he will and do as he please ; either to rule or to be ruled , to teach or to be taught , to act or forbear , the church would be none , and from being like a city that is compact together , it would be no better than a field of contention and confusion . and what particular persons are with respect to a church , such are particular churches with respect to the whole ; and therefore as every christian is to look upon himself as a member of the church , and to bear a due respect to the body of which he is : so are particular churches as parts of a greater body to have a regard to it . it 's for the safety and edification of every particular christian not to stand alone , but to be united to a body ; and it 's for the security and advantage of particular churches to draw into more general combinations , that so they may upon all emergencies receive mutual advice and assistance . and this is to be done according to the nations they are of , the government they are under , the times they are in ; which kind of combination is usually known by the name of a national church , that is , when there is an union of particular churches under one common form. this is in it self a thing most decent , and what , as it doth unite the hearts of a people or nation more firmly to one another , so doth also provide for their security : for as all good order doth contribute to safety ; so the more general that order is , the greater security must redound from it . and therefore however some may in speculation please themselves with particular churches altogether independent upon others ; yet whenever it comes to practice , they are forced to take other measures , and to enter into larger combinations , as it happened in new england . and from hence it is that the quakers themselves how much soever they pretend to be against all forms , are fallen into such a kind of order , and have several laws amongst themselves , which become binding to the rest , and are more or less as extensive as their party is . which is therefore in print complained of by several amongst them , as usurpation and arbitrary imposition * . the usefulness of order to the purposes spoken of is what nature and reason do dictate , and what in all other cases no man doth dispute ; it 's that which brought men into societies , and is the great preserver of them . it 's that which is the safety of nations , and armies , cities , and families ; and it would be the opinion of all men in the present case , were but their own religion and constitution to be the measure prescribed . no man can deny , but if the nation was all in one way , and the people all of one mind in matters of religion , it would be as much for our peace and mutual satisfaction , our welfare and security , as it is lovely in it self . and then methinks no man should deny but that a constitution of one sort or another , which may reach the general part of the nation , and most sute the government of it , doth in its degree tend the same way , and that it 's more for our safety to have that which is a national constitution than to be without it . and this is the more necessary in regard of a potent enemy that we have to encounter , against whom all the force that we can raise , and the care that we can take will be little enough to secure us . for the church of rome is so strongly compacted , and so well provided of whatever may support it at home , or enlarge its conquests abroad , that it will vie with any constitution in the world. there is first an universal head who challengeth the supream power over all churches in the world , and whom all in their communion are bound to acknowledg as such . it 's he that hath the power of calling councils , arbitrating differences , passing decrees , granting dispensations , issuing out indulgences , making expositions , and of bringing all things to a certainty and determination in their church . it 's he whom all the bishops and priests amongst them do swear particular obedience to , and which they hold so sacred and inviolable , that it shall cancel all obligations to , and defend them against all impositions of any secular prince whatsoever . it 's his commands all the several orders of monks and friers do observe , and his pleasure they attend ; and by their vast numbers spread through the christian world , and the intire dependence which they have upon him , he hath both an opportunity of gaining intelligence , and of obtaining ordinarily what he designs with greater facility and success than any prince by his ambassadors , agents and correspondents whatsoever . for these are the constant emissaries of the church , and by whose generals residing at rome all orders that may be for the common good , are immediately dispersed , and so religiously received , that where-ever these persons are sent they immediately go , whatever they are commanded they out of hand do , which they do with the greater resolution bend themselves to , as they have cast off all relations , and have no expectations from them ; have no posterity to take care of , or that have any dependence upon them , and so if they miscarry , the mischief of it lights wholly upon themselves . and these that are chosen out for that purpose , being persons of inquisitive and active tempers , capable of looking into affairs , considering circumstances , and finding out the interests , designs and inclinations of others , and supplied with all things that may be necessary for such an undertaking , have a great advantage over any people that are without such instruments . ( . ) there are besides great preferments and hopes of gaining them , to whet their industry and encourage their endeavours : for those of all kinds that church doth abound in , and flows with that wealth gathered from first fruits , tenths , appeals , dispensations , pardons , jubilees , pilgrimages and other innumerable ways of advantage , as that no design shall fail for want of succour in that kind . ( . ) there is a setled conformity throughout that church , and all agree in their service as it 's now establisht , that whatever differences there are among them , yet they seem to be one to others , and are really so in what makes for their own advantage and security . ( . ) they have a great power over the laity in the interests they make among them for the reasons abovesaid ; and by obliging them to auricular confession , by which their secrets are poured into the priests bosom ; and so as they are under a tye not to do any thing which they would not trust him with the knowledg of ; so if they have committed a secret to him , dare not disoblige him for fear he should disclose it . by which means men dare not own their doubt , or so much as entertain a thought of doing otherwise than the church will allow . lastly , there are such permissions and allowances in their church , that for the service and good of it men may shape their course as they please , take up any garb , and fashion themselves to any temper of men or state of people whatsoever , for such an end . so that from a church thus constituted , and established with power and policy , there needs all the industry , consideration , and unity , that can be to preserve those that are threatned by it . and this without a setled general and national constitution i see not how it may be . we may as well think to go out against a veterane and well disciplined host , and hope to overcome them without any known orders to be observed , or officers to lead and command , as to defend our selves against the invasion of so powerful and formed a church as that is . for had we no form at all , or were there different petty forms without submission to one as supream , there would , it 's likely , be as many factions as forms , and those so furiously contending with each other , that the very approach of the enemy would hardly be able to curb the violence with w ch each would bear upon the other : or however there could not be that good understanding , that necessary intelligence , that sober advice , that mutual care for each others safety , and that ability to advance it as when there is but one . the adversary would have an opportunity of sowing dissensions , of widning differences , and of infecting the multitude with such principles as should make them a fit prey , for his own power , when there is a fit season for it . from all which the necessity of having a general and national constitution doth appear where it is not , and of maintaining one where it is . . i shall consider what that constitution is that may best preserve a church , and a church whose welfare is maligned by such an adversary as i have before described . and that i shall do by laying down some characters which may belong to such a constitution , and then by searching for such a church as may have a correspondence to these characters . . that constitution which is agreeable to scripture , and the practice of the primitive and universal church , is most likely to maintain it self against all opposition . for then it is able to encounter an adversary with great advantage , and beat him from his strongest holds , so far as authority is admitted to the decision of the case . if we have the scripture on our side , none can ever warrantably throw us out of possession , or make good any charge against us : since whatever we hold or do by vertue of its authority will remain firm and unshaken , and which none can touch upon but they must strike at the foundation of truth and religion . and if we have the primitive church , and the records of the first ages to stand by us , as we have thereby the best expositors of scripture , so the best authority next to it ; and which none can wholly reject without great rashness and arrogance . . that 's to be supposed a constitution of this nature , which the adversaries do most of all oppose , and seek the downfal of . if we see an enemy bending all his force against a particular place , and passing by others with all hast and diligence imaginable seeks to surprize it by stratagem , or overthrow it by violence , we may well suppose it to be of great importance , and what he is most of all apprehensive of danger from . and if we find the church of rome always undermining and assaulting some particular establishment amongst us , or some one church more than others in the world , we have good cause to think such a church and constitution to be considerable in it self , and what is also a great affliction and obstruction to them . . that is likely to be a constitution of this kind which best sutes the civil government , that hath such a dependence upon it , and is so complicated with it , that it cannot cannot carry on a different interest from , or seek the trouble and ruin of the state , but it must also trouble and ruin it self . whereas if these two are divided , or have several centers to respect , there will be a continual contention , which can end in nothing but destruction . . that is likely to be a constitution for this purpose which is most generally suted to the temper of the people , and which even the greatest part of dissenters will choose to dwell under , rather than another . there cannot be a constitution which all will equally like , approve of , and agree in ; and since a national constitution is necessary for our preservation , that which will come nearest to this is most eligible . . that constitution may be presumed to be fit for this end which we have had good experience of and know what it 's able to do and is sufficient for . for whatever semblance another may have of great vertue and sufficiency , yet nothing can be positively concluded , because that which hath not been at all , or not fully tried , is very uncertain , and so unsafe , especially in a dangerous season . it may then be what people may as much slight as they did before desire it , and as soon grow weary of it as before they were forward to embrace it . it may come for ought we know to yield the cause instead of maintaining it , and be so far from resisting popery , that it may be swallowed up by it . . that constitution seems most fitted to this end , which is capable of the best consultation and most vigorous prosecution ; where the persons concerned in preserving it , neither want education , nor experience to know what may be for the welfare of the church ; and have also a sufficient power and authority to provide it . for without these advantages of training them up in the ways of knowledg and experience , those to whom the care of the church is committed would rather ruin than preserve it , rather betray than rescue it , by their weakness or their ignorance . . i may add to this , that which hath encouragements for learning and industry , and ways to bring them up in the one , and quicken them to the other . without these , learning would be scarce , and the spirits of men sluggish and he●●● : and without these a church that is eminent ●●●rein , as rome is , would quickly espy and make their advantage ; as she hath already done in the eastern churches , which in little more than an age are almost over-run by her : and that though they had a setled and ancient constitution , and were generally sufficiently prejudiced against the romish usurpation ; yet what from their poverty , and their ignorance ( which follows from the former . ) the supremacy of the pope is now there in very many parts their avowed principle . and if at that distance they have thus far prevailed , they must necessarily meet with the like success in a church when nearer to them , if learning be not encouraged by an honourable maintenance . . that constitution is likely to answer this end which by-standers , and so the most impartial persons have given their verdict for , and which they promise themselves greater security by , if they could obtain it . . that is best for us which in such a time of fear , as this , is most likely to create least disturbance , and expose us to the least danger . for the particular case , now , is to give us a rule , and that is best to us which will best secure us against the publick mischief . having gon thus far to shew that a setl'd national and general constitution is necessary towards our preservation , and to find out such characters as in the opinion of all unbyassed and considering persons may fit such a constitution as is best for us . i have nothing else to do but to find out a constitution which may fit those characters . but by this time you will prevent me in your thoughts , and perceive how these things do agree with our present constitution , and what reason we have to maintain it . but before i proceed to draw the parallel , and set it before you , i shall premise first , that we are to take the several characters before laid down together , for that is the best , which all agree in . secondly , that these characters are not to be applied to any single part of the constitution , but to the whole . for we are not obliged to maintain that every particular thing in our church is the best , and that nothing in it can be mended . for it 's freely declared otherwise , as particularly in the commination to be used the first day of lent. it is sufficient that the constitution is in the whole agreeable to those characters . thirdly , much less do i think my self obliged to defend the miscarriages that may be in the administration of what belongs to the constitution , when they flow not from the constitution it self . for they are the faults of the persons , not the faults of the constitution . but , fourthly , i say that the present constitution amongst us , best sutes those characters , and as it 's in it self the best constitution that i know of upon the face of the earth , so it 's most fit for us , and is to be best thought of by us . and this will appear by comparing our constitution with the characters before laid down . . our constitution is agreeable to scripture and the practice of the primitive and universal church . it 's agreeable to scripture : for it owns nothing for canonical , but what is divinely inspired , and makes nothing necessary , but what is thereby made necessary . whatever things indifferent , and of a middle nature are taken in , are only used as indifferent , and what are therefore alterable in themselves , and upon just causes may be altered and changed , and therefore are not to be esteemed equal with god's law , as our church declares * . and those that are in use are what she hath the ancient church for her pattern in . her government in the substance and essential parts of it , is , what was unanimously and universally the government in the church , according to the most ancient and authentick records that we have in being . . this constitution of ours is the more considerable , as it is what our adversaries of rome do most inveigh against , and labour to overthrow . it is the weakness of some to accuse us of popery , because of episcopacy and a liturgy , and other things in which we do agree . for although they have episcopacy and a liturgy in the church of rome , yet our episcopacy and liturgy is what they bear an immortal hatred unto , neither owning the former , nor suffering their people to be present at the latter . for as long as episcopacy doth not acknowledge the pope's supremacy ; and as long as our liturgy is discharged of the fopperies and idolatry that theirs is stuffed with , it 's to their reproach . this of ours is not only an established , but also a very regular constitution , and bears in it so great a conformity to the ancient order of the church , that there is none in the world which they so much try their skill and their practices upon . and therefore whereas they let the writings of other parties amongst us , lye by with such a kind of contempt , that i remember not above two that for this twenty years they have vouchsafed to take notice of , and to reply to ( and for which i could give a particular reason ; ) in the mean time they have run upon the church with all their might , and picked out the goliahs of their party to encounter the writers amongst us : as well knowing if they could make them to give ground and retreat , the day was like to be their own . this i observe , not to disparage the labours of our dissenting brethren in that kind , but to shew wherein the strength of the protestant religion is thought , even by our adversaries , to consist . . our constitution doth best sute the civil government , as it doth maintain the king in his just rights , and doth not invade the liberty of the subject . the case in these nations formerly was , that the church-constitution rendred the condition of princes and people unsafe and perplexed ; for having a dependance upon , and giving themselves over to a blind obedience to a foreign power , viz. the pope , there were always jealousies of each other , and very turbulent factions maintained to the great prejudice of the kingdom ; as in the time of king henry the i. by anselm , and in the time of henry the ii. by becket arch-bishops of canterbury . but now the supremacy being setled upon the king , and maintained by the church , there is but one interest , and the peace of the publick is thereby provided for * . for the church hath now laws made for the clergy , as well as others , by the supreme council of the nation , and is as much obliged to submit to them when made . but it is evident how little these things are considered and respected by any other parties , in comparison of ours , and what i choose rather to refer you to others for satisfaction in * . . our present constitution doth best sute the temper of the nation , and which the greatest part even of dissenters would choose to dwell under , rather than another . that which pretends mostly to a competition with ours is the presbyterian , as it is a national form . but if we should come to enquire into the inclinations of those that pass under that name , i dare be confident that there are very few of them ( if any ) that are satisfied with the frame that is laid down , and the orders and rules that have been observed in the churches , where that way of government hath been established : or if they are , it is that at which the people are generally prejudiced and which the rest of dissenters do unanimously complain of , and protest against : should we come to the congregational way , then the churches must be consisting of such persons as are gathered out of churches , and who are presumed from some good grounds to be in a state of grace , and that must oblige themselves by a particular covenant at their first admission . by which means all that scruple these terms , or that are not really converted , or not so thought by them , will have no relation to the church , and they and their children be no members of it . and how this would relish with the nation in general , or other dissenters , may be well conceived . so that either we must have no constitution , or the present , if we will gratifie the greatest part of the nation , and even that of the dissenters themselves . for whatever other constitution is uppermost will have more adversaries than ours , as it will have , besides the other dissenters , the present church and the members of it to be against it , who are more in number than any other party , and i think i may say , than all others put together . . ours is a constitution which we have had good experience of , and have seen how it hath kept its ground , and bid such constant defiance to the church of rome , that they of that church have not been able to run it down with all their prowess : and over whom , were it not for our divisions at home , which take up the thoughts of those that are the guardians of it , we should have had such advantage , as might have made them weary of attempting us . there was no reformation in the world that was more orderly begun , more regularly pursued , and more stedfastly maintained than ours . it was that which was water'd with the blood of the reformers , and hath for above this hundred years been still upheld by the unwearied endeavours of those that were in place amongst us . and notwithstanding all the popery that hath been charged upon us , i dare challenge any to shew such monuments of learning and industry ; such clear detections of the apostasie , and such solid consutations of the arguments of that church , as are extant , and have been writ by the bishops , the clergy , and even the laity of ours . . in our constitution there is a capacity of the best consultation and most vigorous prosecution . in respect of the church it self , as there is a due subordination in it , where the inferiour are under the inspection and command of their superiours . and where the superiours are often present at debates in councils , have an hand in making and passing laws , are conversant in affairs of the nation ; and so are in a better capacity of espying out and providing against the attempts of the enemy , than if they were to reside upon particular cures , and to attend the business of them . for then for want of such we should be an easie prey to those that had a will and power to seize us . . i might insist upon the encouragements amongst us for learning and industry , both in preparation for the service of the church in the universities , and after they are admitted to it , in livings , and dignities ; by which means the clergy may be in a capacity to furnish themselves with books , and all necessary accomplishments . and then again upon the care that is taken , or might be , that none but such as are competently learned be received and entertained . . our constitution hath the good opinion of impartial persons , such as learned protestants abroad , many of whom it hath courteously received , cherished and maintained . indeed our church is looked upon as the top of the reformation , and to which in difficult cases others have made their appeals . it hath been honoured by our friends , feared by our enemies , and contemned by none but our selves at home : and how much that hath been , and is to the damage and hazard of the protestant religion , both at home and abroad , might easily be made to appear . . our constitution at this juncture and season is our great security , and what will expose us to the least disturbance and danger : for whilst this stands we cannot be worse than we are , but if this be thrown down , god knows into what confusions we may be cast , or whether ever we may come to a settlement again . i am sensible that there are some that do with all their might endeavour the total subversion of it , and whom nothing less will content , than with edom , to say , ps. . . rase it , rase it , even to the foundation thereof . but i would fain know what is hereby intended , whether such would bring us to confusion or settlement ? if the former , i hope all good protestants of what perswasion soever , will look upon them as their mortal enemies ; since nothing then can be the issue but destruction , both to religion and our selves : for whatever they may pretend , they are far from the temper and spirit of the gospel , where we are told , cor. . . that god is not the author of confusion , but of peace in all the churches of the saints . if a settlement be intended , i would as willingly know where they will fix ? for it 's a most wretched imprudence to pull down the old mound , before they are provided of another , and to expose us to the boar out of the wood , and the wild beast of the field to enter in , and to make havock of the church of god , for want of a fence and security . if they are come to any issue , and are provided of a constitution to set up , are they secure that this project of theirs shall without delay be taken into consideration , and considered without partiality ? will there no controversies arise about the terms of communion , or the nature and parts of that government , which they would substitute in the room of what they now quarrel at ? can they secure us , that the frame which they have laid will be better than that which they seek to overthrow , and that upon experience , and in the current of as many years it shall not prove as faulty as what falls under their present censure ? can they secure us , that their model will take , and that all parties that now joyn against ours , will center in theirs ? or that those that dissent from them shall meet with better quarter , or fairer usage , when theirs is advanced to the supremacy , than they do under ours ? if this cannot be assured , or so much as made probable , we had as good be where we are . but suppose there could be a better constitution than what we have , and that matters might be better regulated ; yet we must consider our present circumstances , in which without doubt it is better to bear with an inconvenience than a mischief , and to be content to be secure with what we have , than to venture all for somewhat that we have not . for a dissolution cannot be at this time without greater mischiefs , than what can be conceived to be in the constitution . it being as in a fort , where perhaps the fortifications may be made more regular , and contrived to the greater security of it ; but though this might be done in a time of peace and leisure , yet to pull down the old for this purpose , whilst the enemy is before it , would be to throw it into his possession , and he that should advise to it , and adventure upon it , though with a good intention , would do as great a mischief , as if he conspired with the enemy . we are now in the midst of danger , and have an enemy that is deeply concerned to let no opportunity slip that may be to our damage ; and if we now pull down our constitution , which is the bulwark of our religion , we expose our selves to his mercy , and he that should attempt it is in these circumstances to be looked upon as no less dangerous an enemy , than if he were of the party , and equally concerned in the plotting our ruine . for my part , i had rather continue in a town that is defensible , though not fortified altogether to my mind , than neglect the present use of that , and betake my self to great consultation to amend it , and in the midst of all my curiosity be with archimedes knockt o' th' head by the enemy . so that the preservation of the present constitution , how irregular soever it may seem to some , will less expose us than the dissolution of it . but yet how far it is from being really so , i have before shewed . and now i shall proceed to the . third general , to shew what regard is to be had to such a constitution . if what i have said be true , that the present constitution be the best qualified for making resistence to , and defending us against the church of rome ; if it be the common bulwark of the protestant religion amongst us , and the great security of it abroad , it becomes every one that is a true lover of our religion , to seek and promote the welfare of our constitution . i know this will be a great piece of self-denial in those that do dissent from it , and that perhaps in so doing they may not increase or derive any particular power to themselves : but if it be really the interest of our religion , i hope they will see it to be their duty , and make it their endeavour . when the jews were carried captive to babylon , they were required to seek the peace of the city , whither they were carried captive , and to pray unto the lord for it : for , saith the text , in the peace thereof shall ye have peace : jerem. . . when in a state of captivity , and amongst heathens , they were thus obliged to have a respect to the welfare of the place and government . and then much more should we , when our religion is the same in its fundamentals , and the civil liberties are , what all are alike partakers of . we all agree in the vital parts of our religion , we agree that popery is a common enemy , we agree that it is our interest to joyn against it . and where shall we meet , if it be not in some settlement : and in what shall we agree , if the present constitution will not so far unite us ? i am sensible that there are many that will not understand this ; that are like those , lament . . . that would not have believed that the adversary and the enemy should have entered into the gates of jerusalem ; that do the church of rome what it can , it can never make its way , and set up its standard amongst us . they think if they can clear themselves of our church at home , that they are sufficiently provided against danger from abroad . they are ready to say , as tyrus of jerusalem , ezek , . . aha she is broken , that was the gates of the people , she is turned unto me , i shall be replenished now she is laid wast : and each party is apt to promise much to it self upon such a victory and change . such as these do watch to break down the carved work thereof with axes and hammers . these labour to cast fire into the sanctuary , and attempt all ways to alienate the affections of the people from the present establishment , and to raise slanders upon any that appear in its defence . they are these that load the present ministry with contempt , and are continually in their pamphlets exposing them , as well knowing that if they can remove the shepherds , or make the people to believe them to be wolves , they have done their business , and the whole flock is likely to lye at their mercy . these are they that make way for popery to enter in . for is it not the ministry of the church of england , that appears in the breach upon all occasions , that either flings down or takes up the gantlet , and that hath hitherto so far prevailed , that the romish party hath at last almost quitted the way of argument , and hath attempted the conquest of us by blood and violence , when they could not do it by learning and reason ? if we had nothing but a worldly interest to move us , if that were the compass we steer by , ( as some do basely insinuate ) if there were nothing of duty in the contention , we might be as quiet as others , and make our terms upon as good advantage with a church that hath store of preferments to reward us , and where the clergy hath a reverence paid to them beyond what we do meet with , or may expect in ours . if we would shew quarter to them , we are sensible enough that they would shew it to us . but when notwithstanding all our industry and care , all our pains and hazard we shall be papists , there can no security be given that any are not such , and much less those gentlemen that take the liberty thus to asperse us . but it is not with us the boldness of these persons hath stopped , but they will bring others into the same condemnation : if the mischief had staid with us we might be silent , or if the state and religion may be secured , and we be ruined alone , it might not be so material . let them proceed in their calumnies and mischievous designs : if that were all , i hope god will give us patience to bear whatever they may throw or inflict upon us . but when the government it self is assaulted , and things are come to this pass , that any one that will not strike in with them in all points shall be a papist , and what not , when a man must not speak for the church of england , but he must be hoysing up sails for the church of rome , it 's time to refel such a calumny , and to expose the design . o what a pleasant sight is this to the church of rome , to see the storm diverting from themselves , and that the work which hath cost them such consultation , expence and labour , shall be done to their hands ; and instead of the sore disappointment , which they did hourly expect , have no more to do but to stand still , and see the destruction of their greatest enemy . to see us by such an artifice made so jealous one of another , that we know not whom to trust , and each party ready to turn the plot upon the other . it is fit that mens eyes should be opened , and be made to see whither they are driving . it 's fit to put a stop to the danger which is coming upon us . i do not charge this upon all dissenters ; i know there are many of them that are so wise to observe it , and so sincere as to abhor it , as well as we ; such that see into the mischievous consequences of these proceedings . i may well say , is not the hand of the jesuit in all this ? what either proceeds from them , or men of their temper . it 's high time then for all sober persons to look about them , and rather to think of what is fit and necessary to be done for our common safety , than for a private satisfaction . let them lay aside all little grudges and animosities , and their present dissatisfactions , till it is a time to find relief for them . it would be an happy time to find the nation of the temper that it was generally in , in the time of queen elizabeth , to have all conspiring and serving god in the same way . but since this is not likely to be ; let all however be over-ruled by a principle of common safety and interest , and do what may best serve to promote it ; which is , in defending what is the bulwark of our religion , by commending what we like in it , by joyning with it in what we can , and by dissenting with modesty where we cannot . for next to the being of one mind in religion , there would nothing more daunt and strike a greater terrour into our adversaries , than to see us stand up for one constitution , and unanimously resolved to maintain that which is the general mound and security . hereby our dissenting brethren will give satisfaction to the government they live under , they will shew that they are christians and protestants indeed . they will then shew themselves worthy of favour , and will prompt authority to find out a way to extend it to them . we shall then begin to be one , and from being tossed to and fro , we shall be growing towards the temper and state of the text , when the whole body fitly joyned together , and compacted by that which every joynt supplieth , according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body , unto the edifying of it self in love . o lord , we beseech thee , let thy continual pity cleanse and defend thy church ; and because it cannot continue in safety without thy succour , preserve it evermore by thy help and goodness , through jesus christ our lord. amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * spirit of the hat. hidden things brought to light . bullocks tracts . q. spiritual court. * rubr. of ceremonies , why some abolished , &c. * of this , v. dr. puller's moderation of the church of england . c. . * dr. puller ut supra . p. . christianity abused by the church of rome, and popery shewed to be a corruption of it being an answer to a late printed paper given about by papists : in a letter to a gentleman / by j.w. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) christianity abused by the church of rome, and popery shewed to be a corruption of it being an answer to a late printed paper given about by papists : in a letter to a gentleman / by j.w. williams, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for walter kettilby ..., london : . attributed to john williams. cf. halkett & laing ( nd ed.). includes bibliographical references. letter addressed: to my honoured friend mr. s.b. errata: p. [ ] at end. reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion christianity abused by the church of rome , and popery shewed to be a corruption of it : being an answer to a late printed paper given about by papists . in a letter to a gentleman . by j. w. revel . . . remember from whence thou art fallen , and repent , and do the first works , or else i will come unto thee quickly , and will remove thy candlestick out of his place , except thou repent . london , printed for walter kettilby , at the bishops head in s. paul's church-yard . . the popish paper . it will not be denied but that the church of rome was once a most pure , excellent , flourishing and mother * church . this church could not cease to be such , but she must fall either by apostasie , heresie , or schism . . apostasie is not only a renouncing of the faith of christ , but the very name and title to christianity : no man will say , that the church of rome had ever such a fall , or fell thus . . heresie is an adhesion to some private and singular opinion , or errour in faith , contrary to the general approved doctrine of the church . if the church of rome did ever adhere to any singular , or new opinion disagreeable to the common received doctrine of the christian world , i pray satisfie me as to these particulars , viz. . by what general council was she ever condemned ? . which of the fathers ever writ against her ? or , . by what authority was she otherwise reproved ? for , it seems to me a thing very incongruous , that so great a church should be condemned by every one that hath a mind to condemn her . . schism is a departure or division from the unity of the church , whereby the band and communion held with some former church , is broken and dissolved . if ever the church of rome divided her self by schism from any other body of faithful christians , or brake communion , or went forth from the society of any elder church : i pray satisfie me as to these particulars . . whose company did she leave ? . from what body did she go forth ? . where was the true church which she forsook ? for it appears a little strange to me , that a church should be accounted schismatical , when there cannot be assigned any other church different from her , ( which from age to age , since christ his time , hath continued visible ) from whence she departed . to my honoured friend mr. s. b. sir , i had no sooner perused the paper which i received from you , but i perceived that it was penn'd for the sake of such , as either are not well acquainted with the matters in controversie betwixt us and the church of rome , or with the way and method of arguing . to such as these they are wont to pretend high : to those that are ignorant of the former , they talk of antiquity and universallity ; and to such as are unskilful in the latter , of demonstrations , and self-evident principles , of axioms and definitions . but all this is a meer flourish of words ; for if these things come strictly to be examined , instead of antiquity we shall too frequently find forgery and imposture ; instead of the catholick church , the church of rome ; instead of demonstrations and definitions , sophistry and fallacious arguments . and after this strain is this paper wrote , in which things are so artificially mingled , that they look very speciously to those that do not understand them ; and are so well fitted to work upon the easie , the ignorant , and inconsiderate , that after it had been printed , as i perceive , long since in fiat lux , it is again singled out to be put into the hands of such as they have a design upon . but i shall endeavour to unravel it , and hope , by that time that i have done , that what is therein said will appear to be wholly insufficient to justifie their church , and acquit it of those crimes it is charged with : and this i shall do by shewing , . that the whole is false . . that the particulars are very fallacious . the former i shall make good by these following considerations . . that a church may fall from what it once was . . that the church of rome is not now what it was in apostolical and primitive times ; when it might most of all pretend to be ( as he calls it ) a most pure , excellent , and flourishing church . . that the alteration from what it was then , to what it is now , is to the worse ; and that it is thereby intolerably corrupted . if these propositions be proved , then the way taken by our author will signifie nothing ; since it will not be worth the while to enquire how it is , whether it be fallen by apostasie , heresie , or schism , when it is demonstrable that so it is , that it is fallen . . that a church may fall from what it once was ; that is , from its primitive purity and simplicity in faith and manners , is evident to any that will read the scriptures , and mind what is therein said of the churches of the jews , sardis and laodicea ; or that are acquainted with ecclesiastical history . and this they of the church of rome are bound to grant ; they must acknowledge , according to their own principles , that we once were a church when in their communion ; and they call us apostatical , heretical , and what not , since we have forsaken it . . that the church of rome is not now what it was in apostolical and primitive times , but is changed in principles and practice . in principles , as , . that the pope is christ's vicar ; that is , that he is the universal king over christ's flock , and hath a jurisdiction over all churches whatsoever , is a new principle . this the scripture ( which the church of rome of old used to appeal to ) is so far from giving any countenance to , that our saviour expresly cautions the apostles against any such usurpation . luk. . . when there was a strife among them , which of them should be accounted the greatest ; he said unto them , the kings of the gentiles exercise lordship over them , &c. but it shall not be so : but he that is the greatest [ or will be great , mark . . ] among you , let him be as the younger , &c. and in the . v. saith , ye shall sit upon twelve thrones , &c. not preferring one before the other . and lest what he had occasionally spoke to peter , mat. . . whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shalt be bound in heaven , &c. should be misconstrued , he doth give the same power to the rest of the apostles , both before his death , mat. . . and also after his resurrection , joh. . . and if we would understand the sense of antiquity as to this matter , i know no surer nor shorter way , than to see what is said by the councils ; for then the fathers may be suppos'd to speak most impartially and with greatest authority ; and of this i shall give you a brief account . the first general council was that of nise , called by constantine the great , and held an. . which in the sixth canon doth thus decree , that the bishop of alexandria , and accordingly of antioch , and of other provinces , should have power over their own provinces according to ancient custom , and the custom in that case of the church of rome ; and that none should invade the priviledges of each other . the same is said and confirmed in the second canon of the second general council held at constantinople by the command of theodosius the emperour , an. . and further ratified by the third general council at ephesus , in the year . can. . if we go forward , we shall find that it was further decreed in the above-said council of constantinople , can. . that the bishop of constantinople should have the order of primacy next to the bishop of rome , because it is new rome . and what is thereby to be understood , is sufficiently declared in the th canon of the fourth general council assembled at chalcedon , an. . in which it is decreed , that the church of constantinople should have equal priviledges with that of rome , there being the same reason for that as the other , as it was the imperial seat : and accordingly is there a particular instance given in case of appeals , can. . from this jurisdiction which every church had over its own members , proceeded other canons ; as , that those who were excluded the communion of one church , should not be received by another . so can. . of the aforesaid council of nice , that no appeals should be made to foreign or transmarine churches . so the council held at milevis in africa ( where s. augustine was present ) an. . which canon † bellarmine confesseth was made with a particular respect to rome . to the same purpose the sixth council held at carthage , an . . ( in which also s. augustine was ) passed a decree * . from all which you may observe , . that the bishop of rome had anciently a limited jurisdiction , it was over his own province only . . that the jurisdiction which he had over his own province , was such as all other supreme bishops had over theirs . . that none had a power to transgress the ancient and setled bounds of jurisdiction , or to invade those of anothers . . that the honour given to the bishop of rome ( whatever priority it was that he had ) was not by any divine authority , but as rome was the imperial seat. . that the honour and privilege which it had by that means , was what another was capable of ; for the same was given to constantinople . . that none of these decrees in those general councils were ever opposed by the church of rome , 'till the council of chalcedon . . that at that time the pretences of the popes legates were universally opposed and rejected . and i may add , . that what was at any time in those days claimed by the church of rome , was claimed not upon any divine authority , but only upon the authority of the council of nice ( as it appears from the transactions in the afore-cited council of carthage ) . what was then claimed under that pretext , was upon a pretended , if not a forged , canon of the council of nice , which was detected so to be by that council of carthage , and their usurpation rejected , as is evident from the acts of that council , and the epistle written by the fathers there assembled , and pope celestine upon it . from all which it appears ( and more i could shew ) that there was no such thing originally , as this universal pastorship , which the bishop of rome doth now challenge , and that rome is therein changed from what it was . and now let our author ask ( if he please ) by what councils was the church of rome ever condemned ? and you may answer , by the four first general councils . let him ask again , which of the fathers ever wrote against her ? and you may answer , no less than , for so many were then concerned in all these four councils . and if this suffice not , we may turn him to the councils of milcvis and carthage before mentioned , and to others also of good authority , besides particular fathers . i have been the longer upon this , not only because it could not be well comprised in less , but also because if this claim of theirs fall , their cause must fall with it . . another new principle of theirs is , that the pope hath at least , in ordine ad spiritualia , a power over all kingdoms within the church , and of deposing kings in case of heresie , or obstinacy , &c. and of absolving subjects from their allegiance to them when thus deposed . that this is the principle of their church is plain , from can. . of the fourth council of lateran , and from the council of trent , in sess . . de reform . c. . where it is somewhat covertly expressed , for a reason which the state of affairs at that time made necessary . that this is the doctrine of their church , is proved beyond all contradiction , by the present lord bishop of lincolne , in his late learned treatise of popery , &c. but that this doctrine of theirs is new , is commonly confessed among themselves , and maintained so to be by several of their own communion , and which any one may so far receive satisfaction in , from what is written by roger widdrington ( alias preston ) in his apologia pro jure principum , and his humilima supplicatio ad paulum quintum . . transubstantiation was not originally an article of their creed as it is now . so it is said by jo. yribarn , * an approved author of theirs , in primitivâ ecclesia de substantia sidei erat , &c. it was of the substance of faith in the primitive church , to believe that the body of christ was contained under the species of bread and wine ; but it was not of faith , that the substance of the bread should be turned into the body of christ , and upon consecration should not be bread. for , saith he , this was not found out by the church till the time of innocent the third , in the council of lateran , where many truths that before lay hid are explained in the chap. of firmiter credimus , amongst which , this of transubstantiation is the chief . so also saith peter tataret . † and this was the opinion of scotus , * the great schoolman . now it is supposed that scotus , who lived within years after , must better understand what was the doctrine of their church before it , and what was the sense of that council concerning it , than he that comes about years after , and chides him for so doing , with a minime probandum . † . the doctrine of infallibility , respecting their church as the seat of it , was not anciently known , neither claimed by themselves , nor granted by others ; amongst all the directions given in scripture for finding out the truth , there is not one word to this purpose ; and amongst all the disputes in the primitive church , we find no such course taken for the final determination of them , as the having recourse to the apostolical chair of rome . heresies were not then so scarce , nor the confutation of them so easie , as that this relief should be forgotten . and it seems they themselves did then as little understand their own priviledges , as they did the principles of faith ; for this was never so much as thought of , in all those councils which were called on purpose for the suppression of heresies , and where the legats of the pope were present : nay to this very day , they are at a loss where to go for it , whether to the pope , or a council , or both , or tradition , or the collective body of christians ; that is , they know not whether to give up the cause or to maintain it . i must confess , if i should hear a person solemnly declare , that he hath treasure enough in his possession to enrich the whole world , and should gravely invite all persons to address themselves to him , but in the mean time perceive ( though he hath been of the same mind for several years , ) that he can neither tell where it is , nor is he and his family for all this the richer , or in a better condition than other folk , i should vehemently suspect him either to be a notorious imposter or perfect lunatick . and when we hear the church of rome confidently asserting its own infallibility , but find withal that she knows not where to fix it , and that its ruptures and differences are in the mean time as great as in other churches , and what are never ended by the way it pretends to , but by plain turcism and downright force , i cannot for my heart but think there is more of interest than reason in the case , and what they themselves do rather live by than believe . but in my mind there is no better evidence that this is new , than that its false ; and no better evidence that it is false , than that it hath mistaken . of which , besides what hath been or shall be farther said of alterations in that church , i shall give you two plain instances , the council of trent † saith , that traditions are to be received with equal reverence as the scriptures ; and maldonet * tells us , that the giving the eucharist to children was a tradition in the church for years after christ ; which is now condemned ( as he shews ) by the council of trent . again , s. hierom † saith , that the latine church then did not receive the epistle to the hebrews amongst the canonical scriptures : but that is now taken into the number by them , and required so to be under an anathema , sess . . decr. . counc . trid. now infallibility and fallibility are contradictory , and if that church hath erred ( as erred she hath ) then she cannot be infallible , and so consequently the infallibility of the church of rome was not the principle of the primitive church of rome . i could shew as much of novelty in the doctrines of indulgences , purgatory , the mass's being a propitiatory sacrifice , and of no salvation out of the romish church , &c. but what i have said i think is sufficient . . the alterations are as great in point of practice ; the church of rome differs therein as much from what she originally was : as , . the keeping the scriptures and publick service in an unknown tongue , is new . the first is evident from the translations of the scripture into several languages , and especially into the latine ( at that time a vulgar tongue ) of which no sufficient reason can be given , were it not for the use of those that understood not the originals . the latter is not only clear from cor. . but what bellarmine * doth acknowledge ; who saith , that the custom of the peoples saying , amen [ that is to what they understood ] as they did in the apostles time , continued long in the western , as well as eastern church . . worshipping of images , which was first established in the second council at nice , but is so different from and contrary to the practice of the primitive church , that cassander † ( an author of theirs ) saith , that the christians had not then so much as images in their churches ; and doth further declare from origen , that the ancients ab omni veneratione ( the very word used by the council of trent , sess . . decret . de invocat . ) imaginum abhorr●erunt , that all veneration of them was abhorred . to this i refer the worshipping of saints , which was so little thought of , that many of the fathers did not think that the souls of any should enjoy the beatisick vision , and be in a state of happiness till the resurrection , as stapleton * doth shew . and it seems not to have been an article of faith in the time of lombard or scotus , the former of which saith † it's not incredible the saints do hear what we say ; and the latter * that it 's probable god doth reveal our prayers that are offered unto them . it was then the doctrine of probability only , but now are required to believe it under an anathema by the council of trent . * as much is to be said concerning the innovation of worship to the virgin mary , of which we read nothing in scripture or antiquity , unless in what was practised by the hereticks , called colyridiani in epiphanius † , that used to carry about her image , and offer cakes and worship to it ; with whom that good father thus encounters : what scripture hath delivered any such thing , &c. let mary be in honour , but let the father , the son , and the holy ghost be worshipped ; let no man worship mary . . communion in one kind expresly contrary to the scripture , and the practice of the romish church . the former is acknowledged by the council of constance * when they decreed notwithstanding for it . the latter is acknowledged by cassander † , who saith , that the roman church it self retained the practice of receiving in both kinds , for above one thousand years after christ , as is evident from innumerable testimonies of ancient writers . to these i might add the practice of saying private and solitary masses , of the adoration of the host , and carrying it about in procession , confession ( as used in their church ) &c. but i shall forbear . . these alterations are to the worse , and gross corruptions . for if the pope is not christ's vicar originally , and by his deputation , then he is a great usurper . if he hath not a power over kings , to depose them , and absolve their subjects from allegiance to them , he is a notorious disturber of the world. if their church be not infallible , and can no more penetrate into or resolve and determine points of faith than another , they are great impostors . if transubstantiation be a doctrine of their own and not of christ's , they are great deceivers . if the scriptures are free to all , then their church is guilty of the damnation of all amongst themselves , that perish through the want of knowing and understanding them ; and of all the ignorance in the christian world which proceeds from that cause . if worshipping images , saints and angels , the host , and relicks , be not christian doctrine , and that these are no lawful objects of such worship , then they are idolaters . if christians are obliged to partake of the wine as well as the bread in the lords supper , then they are tyrannical that deny and forbid it . in fine , they that do such things are enemies to the kingdom of christ and the christian world. if all this be true , that a church may fall from what it once was , and be alter'd to the worse , and that theirs is so , then we need not spend time in disputing what apostasie , heresie , and schism is , upon which he may talk prettily and subtilly ; or by which of them that church is fallen , as long as fallen she is . but yet , to clear the matter of all wrangling disputes , i shall consider these things also ; and shew , . that the particulars are very fallacious ; which will appear from the consideration of the several terms . . most pure , excellent , flourishing mother church ; of all which little or nothing is said in the places of scripture quoted by him in the margin . if we consult the epistle to the romans , there referred to , we shall find , that it was so far from being at that time a flourishing church , that it is there not once so much as called a church . the apostle directs two epistles to the church in corinth , and two to the church of the thessalonians , and one to the churches of galatia ; but to the romans he writes thus , ch. . v. . to all that be in rome , beloved of god , called to be saints ; as if they were yet converts at large , without any other setled constitution , than what was in the house of aquila , which he therefore calls a church , ch. . v. . and therefore salmeron , aware of it , thinks st. paul would not call them a church purposely , because of the factions that were there at that time betwixt the jews and gentiles . tom. . in rom. . disp . . p. . col . . but if we should grant it a church ; yet how doth that , rom. . . prove that it was flourishing , when it 's only said there , your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world ; and in ch. . v. . ( for i suppose that is the other place he would refer to ) your obedience is come abroad unto all men ; by which doubtless no more is to be understood , but that the conversion of many to christianity in that city was spread throughout the roman world ; and did tend much to the propagation of it , as that city was then the imperial seat. this is the explication given of this place by some of their own writers , viz. rigaltius , in his notes upon st. cyprian , epist . p. . and tolet who in c. . ad rom. annot . . calls it a true exposition , and saith it 's to be understood as thes . . . as for the term mother , i hope he means not that the gospel first came from thence ; for in that sense she was a daughter , and not a mother . and if any church could pretend to any authority from that consideration , it must be jerusalem , which in this sense was the mother of us all . but if he means thereby , that she was an original and apostolical church , planted by the apostles , or in apostolical times ( for so tertullian useth these words alike lib. de proscript . cap. . when he calls them matrices & originales ecclesiae , and again ecclesiae apostolicae ) then such also was ephesus in asia , and corinth in achaia , &c. as tertullian there shews , c. . and . of which churches it will be hard for him to find any thing remaining , and which , while they did remain , he must acknowledg to have fallen and been grosly corrupted . and therefore rome's being a mother church , in this sense , is no security against apostasie , heresie and schism . . apostasie , he saith , is a renouncing not only the faith of christ , but the very name and title to christianity . this indeed is apostasie with a witness ; but as it is no more than a branch or particular kind of it , so it can be no compleat or true definition of it . it being just as if he should say , that theft is the violent and forcible taking away of another man's goods ; which indeed is the highest degree of it , and what we usually call robbery ; but there are other sorts of theft besides ; and though it be never so surreptitiously and clandestinely done , it is as well theft , and a breach of the eighth commandment as the other . so it is in the present case ; the highest degree of apostasie is a renouncing the very name of christian , the turning a renegado , a turk , or jew : but that is apostasie also , when there is a departure from the faith of christ , or from any great article or articles of it . and so far a person may be truly an apostate , and yet retain the name and title to christianity . i must confess , i always took those to be apostates , whom the apostle speaks of , tim. . . that depart from the faith of christ , who yet seem to have continued in the profession of it . and i am apt to believe antichrist will be thought an apostate ; and yet it 's the opinion of many among themselves , that he shall retain the name of christian . but if this will not do , i must refer him to the bulla coenae of paul the fifth , where it s said in the first article of it , excommunicamus , &c. we excommunicate and anathematize , &c. all hussites , wicklevists , lutherans , zuinglians , calvinists , hugonots , anabaptists , trinitarians , & à christianâ side apostatas , ac omnes & singulos alios haereticos , &c. and all apostates from the christian faith , and all other hereticks , &c. which is doubtless spoken of such as have not , nor are supposed to have renounced the name and title to christianity . so that either the pope in one of his most solemn bulls is mistaken , or this gentleman : and if we take to the former , as i hope he either in modesty , or for a more important reason which he is privy to , will allow , then the church of rome may be fallen by apostasie , though she doth retain the name and title , and will needs be the only church of christ . . heresie , he saith , is an adhesion to some private or singular opinion or errour in faith , contrary to the general approved doctrine of the church . before we admit this definition , there are a great many things to be considered ; as first , that the relation which he makes heresie to have to the doctrine of the church , is not current amongst themselves . for many of them do say , that heresie is nihil aliud quàm error in rebus fidei cum pertinacia , heresie is nothing else than an error in the matters of faith with obstinacy , as sayrus acknowledgeth in his clavis sacerdotum l. . c. . n. . and durand is of the same mind ( notwithstanding what sayrus saith of him to the contrary ) as appears l. . dist . . q. . where he makes the respect which heresie hath to the church , to be because the church is constituted , per unitatem fidei , by the unity of the faith : so that according to these , the respect which heresie hath to the church , is only from the respect which the church hath to the faith : and to find out what heresie is , we must enquire not what the church is , but what is the faith. and if so , a church , even that of rome , may fall by heresie , though she may hold the general approved doctrine of the church . but i doubt if we should admit the whole , and yet take it in any sense but one , viz. for the general approved doctrine of the church of rome in the last ages of it , that we shall find her guilty in this point also . shall the church be taken for the primitive church three or four hundred years after our saviour , then they are guilty of heresie who will have the pope to be christs vicar , and to have jurisdiction over all churches ; that do maintain worshipping of images , angels and saints to be lawful and necessary , &c. contrary to the general approved doctrine of those ages . should we take the church , for the church catholick in any age ( as cassander doth ; consult . artic. . ) that is , the congregation of christs faithful people all over the world , then still rome would fall into the same condemnation , since that she is but a little part in comparison of the whole . should we take church again for the romish church in the first ages of christianity , it would then also condemn it self , as i have before shewed . and i see no way for them , even according to this definition , ( which is perfectly one of their own making ) to avoid this imputation , but by stifly maintaining , that they thereby understand the church of rome for some ages last past ; if that will do ; and then we know where to find them , and what to understand when they talk of the church . . schism , he saith , is a departure from the unity of the church whereby the band and communion held with some former church is broken . this is as lame and fallacious a definition as any of the rest . for by foysting in that word former , which he after runs upon , he restrains it to one particular branch of schism ; and its just as if he should say , a church is an assembly of christians that join in communion with each other in the city of rome ; which none will allow to be a sufficient definition of a church : for that term added , in the city of rome , doth no more than prove that the assembly of christians there met is a church ; but is no definition of a church ; for then no church could be out of the city of rome , and every church , if it be a church , must be in that city and no where else , if that be a true definition of it . so it is here , the word former added to the definition of schism here given , doth prove no more than that a departure from the unity of a former church is a species and sort of shcism , but is no adaequate definition of it . for if it is , then no church can be guilty of schism , that doth , how unwarrantably soever , refuse to hold communion with , or doth break off from the communion of a church that was not a church before it . and consequently , though the church of jerusalem had denied to hold communion with any church whatsoever ( though it were even with the church of rome it self ) she could not be guilty of schism , because she was the first church , and none was prior to her . and we also should be quit of that blame ( if we had nothing else to say for our selves ) for as much as a church was founded here in brittain two years before that of antioch ; and st. peter was seven years at antioch before he presided at rome , as baronius saith , an. . num. . and an. . numb . . from whom and from which time they pretend alone to derive their supremacy . and now this will hold , although the church thus separated from had given no reason or colour at all for it . for according to the definition of our author , it must be a former church which the departure must be from to make it schism . we may indeed say that schism is when the band or communion held with any church , is ( without just reason ) broken and dissolved ; because all christian churches ought to maintain communion with each other , where it may be had : but if so , then the church of rome is the most schismatical in the world , that denies communion with all churches that are not in all tridentine points one with her . if you now , sir , reflect upon his scheme and frame of arguments , you will see that they hold in nothing which he produceth them for . for what will it signifie if it be granted that the church of rome was once a most pure , flourishing church , if she be now abominably corrupted ? what if she was a mother church planted by the apostles , and watered with their doctrine , and their blood , when she now preacheth another doctrine than she was taught by them , and hath grosly corrupted that faith which they did there establish . what if she was a mother church to some other churches , yet , that as it gives her no authority over those whom she was not in any sense a mother to , so even not over such as she might pretend that relation to , when she is now not to be approached to , or held communion with , without apparent hazard of salvation ; and is fallen from those principles and that faith which she at their first conversion instructed them in ? when she is fallen by apostasie , heresie , and schism . by apostasie , as she hath forsaken the primitive church , and is not now what she originally was , either in faith or manners . by heresie , as she hath received new articles of faith , that were not such before , and so obstinately persisted therein , that she hath turned the anathema upon all dissenters in those points from her . such articles she hath embraced and doth now hold , as have been condemned by councils , wrote against by the fathers , and reproved by authority . some of these she was particularly charged with , and reproved for ; and in others she is as much concerned , as if particularly charged , because she hath embraced those things which were by them condemned . for if the things and principles were condemned , whoever holds them is as much so condemned by that authority , as if particularly named . as they will acknowledge , that if a church now in communion with them should fall off from them , she is thereby as much under the anathema of the council of trent , as if she had at the meeting of that council been so far faulty , and thereby been particularly condemned . by schism she is fallen , as she denies communion with all other churches in the world , whether they were so before she was a church , or were churches converted and established at the same time with her , or that have embraced the christian faith since she did . the company of such she hath left : from these bodies she is gone forth : and these were the true churches which she forsook . so that she will be found as often guilty of apostasie as there are particulars of faith , doctrine , worship , and manners , which she is fallen from the primitive church in . as often of heresie , as she hath new principles of faith , and which the church was not then acquainted with . as often of schism , as there are churches in the world , that she will not hold communion with , only because they will not embrace those principles , or join with her in those practices which she holds contrary to them , and with them to the primitive church . and thus , sir , i have made good , i hope , what i first undertook , and if thereby any service can be done to you or our religion , it will be a great satisfaction to , sir , your servant . j. w. finis . imprimatur , febr. . / . guil. jane , r. p. d. henr. episc . lond. a sac. dom. errata . page . line ult . for they must read who must . p. . l. . for they call us read that call us . l. . for king read pastor . p. . l. penult . after nice put a full stop . l. ult . after churches put a comma , notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * rom. . . rom. . rom. . white , defence of his way . p. . king jam. in his speech to the parliament . vvhitaker in his answer to d. sand. demonst . tulk. in c. . thes . sect. . reynolds in his th conclusion . notes for div a -e † l. . de rom pon. cap. . * can. . * comment in . sent. secti . l. . dist . . q. . di p. . sect. . † com. in . sent . p. . cil . . ven . . andp . . col . . * in . sent. dist . . q. . ss . ad argument . pro prima & dist . . q. . ss . quantum ergo . † bellarmine l. . de euchar ● . . † sess . . decr . . * com. in joh. . p. . † in isa . c. . and c. . * de verbo dei lib. . cap. . † consult . artic. . sect . . * desens . eccl. cont . whitaker , l. . c. . tom. . p. . † sent. l. . dist . . * in . dist . q. . * sess . . de invocat . † haeres . * sess . . † artic. . the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god proposed and stated, by considering these questions : qu. i. whether things indifferent used in divine worship (or, whether there be any things indifferent in the worship of god?) : qu. ii. whether a restraint of our liberty in the use of such indifferent things be a violation of it? williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god proposed and stated, by considering these questions : qu. i. whether things indifferent used in divine worship (or, whether there be any things indifferent in the worship of god?) : qu. ii. whether a restraint of our liberty in the use of such indifferent things be a violation of it? williams, john, ?- . bagshaw, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by j. redmayne, jun. for fincham gardiner ..., london : / . attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . attributed also to edward bagshaw. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng worship -- early works to . god -- worship and love -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the case of indifferent things used in the worship of god , proposed and stated , by considering these questions . qu. i. whether things indifferent , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in divine worship ? [ or , whether there be any things indifferent in the worship of god ? ] qu. ii. whether a restraint of our liberty in the use of such indifferent things be a violation of it ? london , printed by j. redmayne , jun. for fincham gardiner at the white horse in ludgate-street . / . question . q. whether things not prescribed in the word of god , may be lawfully used in divine worship ? before i proceed to the case it self , it will be fit to consider what the things are which the question more immediately respects . for the better understanding of which , we may observe , . that there are essential parts of divine worship , and which are , either by nature or revelation , so determined , that they are in all ages necessary : in natural religion , such are the objects of it , which must be divine ; such are the acknowledgments of honour , and reverence , due and peculiar to those objects , as prayer , &c. and in the christian religion , such are the sacraments of baptism , and the lord's supper . these are always to be the same in the church . . there are other things relating to divine worship , which are arbitrary and variable , and determined according to circumstances , as gesture , place , &c. as to the former it 's granted by the contending parties , that they are all already prescribed , and that nothing in that kind can be added to what is already prescribed , nor can any thing so prescribed be altered , or abolished . nothing now can be made necessary and binding to all persons , places , and ages , that was not so from the beginning of christianity ; and nothing that was once made so by divine authority can be rendred void or unnecessary by any other . therefore the question is to be applied to the latter , and then it 's no other than , whether things in their own nature indifferent , though not prescribed in the word of god , may be lawfully used in divine worship ? or , whether there be any thing indifferent in the worship of god ? toward the resolution of which , i shall . enquire into the nature , and state the notion of things indifferent . . shew that things indifferent may be lawfully used in divine worship . . consider how we may know what things are indifferent in the worship of god. . how we are to determine our selves in the use of indifferent things so applied . . shew that there is nothing required in the worship of god in our church , but what is either necessary in it self , and so binding to all christians ; or what is indifferent , and so may be lawfully used by them . . i shall enquire into the nature , and state the notion of things indifferent . in doing of which we are to observe , that all things with reference to practice are reducible to these three heads : first , duty . secondly , sin. thirdly , neither duty nor sin. duty is either so morally , and in its own nature , or made so by divine and positive command . sin is so in its own nature , or made and declared to be such by divine and positive prohibition . neither duty nor sin , is that which no law , either of nature or revelation , hath determined ; and is usually known by the name of indifferent , that is , it 's of a middle nature , partaking in it self of neither extremes , and may be indifferently used or forborn , as in reason and prudence shall be thought meet . things of this kind the apostle calls lawful , cor. . . &c. because they are the subject of no law , and what are therefore lawful to us , and which without sin we may either chuse or refuse . thus the apostle doth determine , rom. . . where no law is there is no transgression , that is , it can be no transgression to omit that which the law doth not injoyn , nor to do that which it doth not forbid ; for else that would be a duty which the law doth not injoyn , and that would be a sin which it doth not forbid ; which is in effect to say there is a law where there is none , or that duty and sin are so without respect to any law. but now if duty be duty because it 's injoyn'd , and sin be sin because it 's forbidden , then indifferent is indifferent because it 's neither injoyn'd nor forbidden . for as to make it a duty there needs a command , and to make it a sin there needs a prohibition ; so where there is neither command nor prohibition , it 's neither duty nor sin , and must be therefore indifferent , lawful , and free. so that we may as well know by the silence of the law what is indifferent , as we may know by its authority what is a duty or a sin. and i have no more reason to think that a duty or a sin which it takes no notice of ( since all obligation ariseth from a law ) than that not to be a duty or a sin which it doth : the nature of lawful things being as much determined so to be , by the want of such authority , as that of necessary is determined by it : and he that shall say that 's a duty or a sin which is not so made and declared by any law , may as well say that 's no duty or sin which there is a law about . to conclude , there must be a law to make it a transgression , and the want of a law doth necessarily suppose it to be none , and what there is no law for or against , remains indifferent in it self , and lawful to us . as for instance , suppose there should be a dispute concerning days set apart for the service and worship of god , how must this be determined but by the law of nature or revelation ? and how shall we be resolved in the case , but by considering what the law injoyns or forbids in it ? if we find it not injoyn'd , it can be of it self no duty ; if we find it not forbidden , it can be of it self no sin ; and consequently it 's lawful and indifferent , and in what we neither sin by omitting nor observing . so the apostle concludes , rom. . . he that regardeth a day , regardeth it unto the lord , and he that regardeth not the day , unto the lord he doth not regard it ; that is , there was no law requiring it , and so making the observation of it necessary ; and no law forbidding it , and so making the observation of it sinful ; and therefore christians were at liberty to observe , or not to observe it as they pleas'd ; and in both they did well , if so be they had a regard to the lord in it . . i shall shew that there are things indifferent in the worship of god , and that such things , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in it . 't is allowed by all that there is no command to be expected about the natural circumstances of action , and which the service cannot be celebrated without , such as time and place , and that these are left to humane prudence to fix and determine . but what those natural circumstances are is not so universally agreed to . and if they be such as aforesaid , that is , such as the action cannot be performed without , then it will very much serve to justify most of the things in dispute , and defend our church in the use and practice of them . for what is there almost in that kind amongst us , which is not naturally or morally necessary to the action , and if time and place fall under humane determination , because they are naturally necessary , then why not also gesture and habit , which worship can no more naturally be celebrated without , than the former ; and consequently a surplice , or kneeling and standing , may be alike lawfully determined , and used , as time for assembling together , and a church to assemble and officiate in . and what natural circumstances are to a natural action , that are moral circumstances to a moral action ; and there are moral as necessary to a moral action , as there are natural necessary to a natural action . as for example , what time and place are to natural , that are method and order to moral and religious acts , and can no more be separated from these than the other can be separated from the former , and therefore the method and order of administration in divine worship ( where not otherwise determined and appointed by god ) may as well be determined by men , as time and place , with respect to the nature , end , and use of the service . so that the exception made against humane appointments in divine worship , viz. ( that all but natural circumstances must have a divine command to legitimate their use ; and that whatever is not prescribed , is therefore prohibited ) is of no service to them that plead it ; and it remains good so far notwithstanding , that there are things indifferent in the worship of god , and that the outward order and administration of it is left to christian prudence and this i shall more particularly prove . . from the consideration of the rules laid down in the gospel , relating to the administration of divine worship which ( except what refer to the elements , &c. in the sacraments ) are taken from the nature of the thing ; and so always were obliging to all ages under the several variations and forms of divine worship , and will be always so to all christians in the world , viz. such as respect order , decency and edification , insisted upon , cor. . , . so that we are no otherwise bound , than as bound by these measures , and where not bound by them we are free . for as in former ages from the beginning of the world , where revelation did not interpose ( as it did under the mosaical dispensation ) all persons were left at liberty , and if so be they had a respect to those natural rules , might choose what ways they pleased for the regulation of divine worship : so when under the gospel we have no other than those natural rules ( except as above excepted ) the particular circumstances are as much now the matter of our free choice , as they were then , and this or that may be used and observed , as the case requireth and occasion serves . so that if ever there were things indifferent in gods worship , and the administration of it was left to the consideration and prudence of mankind , it is so still , since the gospel keeps to those eternal rules which even the nature of the thing hath invariably established , and which , if it ever was sufficient for the guiding of the church of god in those particulars , is certainly so when the nature of man is improved by new helps , and so he is more capable of judging what may be sutable to that essential worship which god hath prescribed under the gospel , and to him whom that worship is directed to . but then that which confirms this , is that those rules are also general ; and such as will in their use and end respect all people in the world. the apostles in all their discourses upon this subject rarely do descend to particulars , and in what they do , shew how far custom and charity , and the reason of the thing ought to govern us ; as in the case of mens being uncovered in the worship of god , for which the apostle doth argue not from institution , but the nature and decency of it , being in token of their preheminence , and the headship they have over the woman , &c. . cor. . . but otherwise they without doubt thought it unpracticable to tye all nations up to the same modes and circumstances , or if practicable that it was not worth the while , when the worship might as well be administred , and god as much honoured by one as the other . now if they did think it sufficient to prescribe only in this general way , it must needs be that the particulars of those generals must be indifferent , and that the chusing of one particular before the other was left to christian prudence . and if it should be said ( as it is ) that when the things are determined in general , the particulars are therein also vertually determined , and so are not indifferent ; i shall content my self to reply , that by this way of arguing there would be nothing indifferent in the world : there being nothing how lawful and indifferent soever in it self , but what we are limited by general rules in the use of . as for example , all meats are now lawful to christians , but yet there are general rules by which we are determined in the use of them , such as our own constitution , and our quality , or scandal given to others : but the being thus bounded by such rules , doth not change the nature of those meats , and make them to be other than indifferent . so it is in the worship of god , for the better administration of which there are general rules laid down , and according to which we are to be determined in our choice of particulars , but yet the particulars notwithstanding are indifferent , and matter of christian liberty , and what humane prudence is to regulate us in . all which will yet be further confirmed by considering the nature of the things which are the subject of those general rules , viz , order , decency and edification , which do mostly , if not altogether , depend upon variable circumstances , and may be different according to those circumstances ; sometimes this , and at other times that being subservient thereunto . as for instance , decency doth generally depend upon custom , and the custom of ages and countries being different , decency in one age or country may be and often is quite different from what it is in another . it was once comely amongst some nations to be covered in divine worship , and practised both amongst the jews in their synagogues , as the apostle doth insinuate , cor. . . and their own authors do acknowledge a ; and also amongst the b romans . but it was comely amongst others to be uncovered , as amongst the grecians , c who in those times giving laws of civility , and in many things of religion too to other nations , it became a prevailing custom , and was , as a thing decent , introduced into the christian church . thus it is also as to edification , which doth in like manner often depend upon circumstances , and according to those circumstances the edification of the church in its peace , union , and comfort may be promoted or hindered , and that may be for edification in one age or church , which is not so in another . thus the being covered in divine worship was for edification in the jewish church , being used in token of fear and reverence , distance and subjection ; in allusion to which the seraphims are represented appearng before god , after that manner , isai. . . and in mitation of whom the apostle pleads that women should be vailed in religious assemblies , in token of subjection and shamefacedness , cor ▪ . . but on the contrary he doth judge and determin that , for the reasons above given , it was better and more for edification , that men should be therein uncovered . so the love-feasts , and holy-kiss of charity were at the first thought good for edification , and were accordingly used in apostolical times , ( being an excellent and useful , admirable and friendly , custom ) as thereby was signified the universal love and charity that christians ought to maintain , and which they should at all times but especially in divine worship be forward to express and renew : but when disorder and licentiousness arose from them , they were generally laid aside , and abolished by authority . so it was thought to be for edification in the primitive church to administer baptism by immersion or dipping , and the apostle doth make use of it as an excellent argument to newness of life , rom. . , . and yet notwithstanding the signification of it , and the practice of the church for a long time , a charitable reason hath over-ruled it , and brought in sprinkling instead of it . thus sitting at the lords supper is accounted decent by some , and for edification , as it 's a table posture , and is a sign of our being feasted by god ; and yet in a general synod of the reformed churches in poland , &c. it was declared that forasmuch as sitting was introduced first by the arrians ( beside the custom used in all the evangelical churches throughout europe , ) we reject it as peculiar to them ( that as they do irreverently treat christ , so also his sacred appointments ) and as a ceremony less comely and devout , and to many very offensive . so that order , decency , and edification being generally mutable things , and varying as circumstances vary , there could in the nature of the thing be only general rules prescribed , and so the particulars must be left to discretion , and to be determined by those that are best able and have authority to judge of the circumstances , and to pick out of them those which are indifferent , what may best serve the ends of religion , and the honour of its institutions . . i shall prove that things indifferent in themselves , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in divine worship , from the practice of our saviour and his apostles . under the law the constitution was very exact , the rites and orders of it very particular , and the observation of them punctually required . but as it was not so precise but that many things respecting the outward order were added , so some things were altered upon prudential considerations ; and by the addition or alteration of which the authority of that law was not conceived to be infringed , nor violated ; as it 's evident from the respect which our saviour shewed to them , and his compliance with them . an instance of this is the synagogual worship ; it 's a controversy whether there was any provision made under the law for the places themselves , the intimations of that are ( if any ) very obscure , but there are not so much as any intimations of the manner and order or parts of the worship therein to be observed ; and yet we find such there was , acts . . moses being read and preached there every sabbath day ; and that our saviour frequently resorted to it and bore a part in it , john , . , &c. the like temper we find him of , when he used the cup of charity after the manner of the jews , in the passover , though there was no institution for it ; and that it was as many other things , taken up and used amongst them by way of signification , and as a testimony of entire friendship , and charity , luke , . . but i conceive alteration of circumstances in the institution is much more exceptionable than the addition of such to it , and yet this was both done by them and observed by our saviour , when there was nothing else to oblige him , but only a condescension to them in such usages and rites as were inoffensive in themselves , and what were then generally used in the church . that the posture first required and used in the passover was standing , the circumstances , being to be eat with staves in their hands and shoes on their feet , &c. do prove , and is affirmed by the jews ; and it is as manifest that the jews in the time of our saviour , and for a long time before , did recede from it , and did eat it in the posture of discumbency ; whether it was as they looked upon themselves as settled in the possession of canaan , which they were at the first institution travelling towards ; or , as it 's said by the later jews , because it was a sign of liberty , and after the manner of kings and great men , is not so material , as it is that our saviour did follow this custom , and complied with this practice of theirs without hesitation . and thus did the apostles when they observ'd the hours of prayer , acts , . . which were of humane institution as well as the pray●rs themselves , ( for without doubt they were publick prayers , which were used in the temple , ) but though the place was , yet that service was of no more authority than what was used in the synagogues . now if the jews did thus institute and alter things relating to external order and administration , according as the case might require , and it was lawful for them so to do ( as it 's plain from the compliance of our saviour and the apostles with them in it ) then much more may it be supposed lawful for the christian church to exercise that liberty when they have no other than such general rules for their direction as they had then , without such particulars as they had . and that this is no other than a certain truth will appear from the same liberty taken in apostolical times in religious assemblies , when the christian church not only complied with the jews in such rites as they were under no obligation , but that of charity , to use , and which they did use because they were not forbidden , and so lawful ; ( as when st. paul took upon him a vow , acts. . . ) but also had some observances of its own , that were of a ritual nature , and as they were taken up so might be laid down upon prudential consideration . such i account was the washing the disciples feet , which was done by our saviour in token of the humility he was to be a president of , and would have them follow him in ; and which it seems was obferved amongst them , tim. . . and for a long time after continued in a sort in some churches a . such also were the love-feasts at the administration of the lords supper ; and the holy-kiss used then amongst christians , if not as a constant attendant upon all publick worship , yet to be sure at prayer b . which and the like usages , however taken up , yet were in the opinion of the church no other than indifferent , and accordingly were upon the abuse of them ( as i observed before ) discarded . from all which it appears , that there was no such thing as prescription expected before any rite should be introduced into the church , or before it would be lawful for christians to use it , but that where it was not forbidden , the practice of the church was to determine them ; and if prescription had been thought necessary for every thing used in divine worship , which was not natural , then certainly our saviour and his apostles would never have used or encouraged others to use any thing that wanted such authority , and that was not of divine institution . now if it should be objected that these usages of the christian church were civil observances , and used as well out of god's worship as in it ; and therefore what there needed no institution for , and might be lawfully used without . i answer . that this doth justify most of the usages contended for , and there would be nothing unlawful in using a white garment , &c. in divine service , since that as a sign of royalty and dignity was used in civil as well as religious cases , and according to this argument may therefore lawfully be used in religious , because it was in civil . secondly , they must say that either a civil observance , when used in religious worship , remains civil , notwithstanding its being so applied , or that it 's religious whilst so applied ; if the former then kneeling or standing in the worship of god would be no acts of adoration and not be religious , because those postures are used in civil matters ; if the latter , then it must be granted that there may be rites used in the worship of god and to a religious end , which there is no divine prescription for . nay thirdly , it 's evident that these and the like were not used by the christians as meer civil rites ; this i think is made evident , as to washing the feet , by a learned person a ; and not only was the kiss of charity called the holy-kiss in scripture , but by the fathers , ( notwithstanding what is b objected ) the seal of prayer , and the seal of reconciliation , and both consistent , the one as it was an attendant upon that office , the other as it was a testimony of their charity and reconciliation to each other in it . fourthly , if the being civil usages did make them which were originally so , to be lawful in or at divine worship , then there is nothing that is used out of worship in civil cases and affairs , but may be introduced into the church ; since if it be for that reason that any usages of that kind are defended , the reason will as well defend all as one . and then the histrionical practices of the church of rome might warantably be introduced , as the rocking of a babe in a cradle at night , at the nativity time ; the harrowing of hell at easter , &c. then a maypole may be brought into the church for children to dance-about and climb up on , in sign of their desire to seek the things above ; and a stiff straw put into the childs hand , for a sign of fighting against spiritual enemies , as with a spear ; and all the absurdities of that nature charged injuriously upon our proceedings a would return with success upon themselves : since all these are fetched from customs and practices in secular matters . fifthly , if this be a reason to defend the use of rites in the christian church , because they are used out of it , and in civil cases ; then what will become of that position , before spoken of , and generally asserted by those who oppose us , that nothing is to be used in the worship of god without prescription , except the natural circumstances of action ; for though civil and natural are sometimes coincident , yet they may be and often are separated ; for feasting and salutation are civil usages , but are no natural circumstances in divine worship , and which that cannot be performed without . and if these and the like were used in the church , and applied and annexed to divine worship ; then the reason upon which they were introduced and used doth , wherever that reason is , justify the like practice , and we are left still to choose and act according to the permission and allowance that is given us ; that is , all such things that are not forbidden are just matter of our christian liberty , and there is no sin in a prudent exercise of it . . i shall further prove and strengthen the proposition , that things indifferent , though not prescribed , may be lawfully used in divine worship , from the ill consequences attending the contrary ; one of which is , that if we hold all things not commanded to be prohibited , we shall find no church or religious society in the world but are guilty ; and if the doing so makes communion with a church unlawful , there is no church we can hold communion with . there are some churches that do maintain and use such things as the scripture expresly condemns , and do lay aside such as the scripture requires ; as the church of rome , in its worshipping saints and angels , and denying the cup to the laity , &c. and these things make it necessary for those to quit its communion that are of it , and for those to avoid it that are not in it . but other churches there are that are guilty of no such fundamental errors and fatal miscarriages , and may so far lawfully be communicated with . but even none of these are there , but what , either wittingly or unwittingly , do take the liberty of using what the scripture hath no where required . it was notoriously so in the ancient church when some customs did universally obtain amongst them ; as the anniversary solemnities of the passion , resurrection , and ascension of christ , and descent of the holy-ghost , the receiving of the lords supper fasting ; a the praying toward the east b ; the standing in their devotions on the lords days , c especially from easter to whitsuntide ; the dipping the baptized thrice in water d , & c.. now whatever some of the fathers might plead for any of these from scriptures misunderstood , yet it 's plain that none of these are required in scripture , and if so , a person that holds it unlawful to use any thing uncommanded , and to hold communion with a church so using , must have separated from the catholick church , since ( if there be credit to be given to the fathers so reporting ) they all agreed in the use and practice of the things above recited . and he that held all fixed holy-days of ecclesiastical institution unlawful , and all ceremonies not instituted by god to be prohibited , must not have worshipped with them , who did not only thus do , but thought it unlawful , when universally practised to do otherwise . but again as there were some rites universally held in estimation , so there were others that were peculiar to some churches , and that were not thought to be obliging out of that particular communion , as when in the church of rome it was the custom to fast on the saturday ; and of most others to make no such distinction betwixt that and other days . a in the church of milain they washed the feet of those that were to be baptized , but in the church of rome , they used it not b . now if persons did believe such things unlawful , they could have no communion with any particular church , because no church was without such uncommanded rites ; or if they could be so fond as to think the rites of their own church to be of divine institution , yet how could they have communion with a church , where the contrary custom did prevail , as in the cases abovesaid . and as it was then , so it is now with all stated and settled churches in the world , who do practise against this principle , and either expect not or are not able to find a command for every thing established amongst them ; and that practise with as much contrariety to each other as the church of rome and milain once did . so in some churches they receive the lord's supper kneeling , in some standing , in others sitting . in some they sprinkle the child in baptism but once , and in others thrice . now there would be no reconciling of these one to another , and no possibility of holding communion with them under these circumstances , or of being a member of any church , if we must have an institution for every thing done in the worship of god , and that we must joyn in nothing , which has it not . as for instance what church is there in the world , which has not some form or forms of prayer , and whose service for the most part ( generally speaking ) is not made up of them ; especially that doth not use them in the administration of the sacraments . but now if a person holds that whatever is not prescribed is unlawful , and that forms of prayer are no where prescribed , then he cannot joyn with the church so using , but while in the body of the church by residence , he must be no member of that body in communion . nay further , if this be true , then none must hold communion with them who are of this opinion ; since those that pretend most to it , and urge it as a reason against communion with us , live in contradiction to it , and do practise and use things which they have no more authority , nor can give more reason for , than we do for the things they condemn , and that is , that they are lawful , expedient , and convenient . as for example , let us consider the sacraments , in which , if any thing , we might expect particular prescription , because they are meer institutions ; where do they find that the baptized person is necessarily to be sprinkled ? what command or example have they for it , or what reason more than the reason of the thing taken from expedience and the general practice of the church of god in colder climates ? and yet this is as much used amongst them that pretend to keep exactly to the rule of scripture , as it is amongst us that take a liberty in things uncommanded ; but with this difference , that they do it upon the supposition of a command , and so make it necessary , and our church leaves it , as it is , indifferent . again , where do they find a command for sitting at the lord's supper , or so much as an example ? ( for the posture of our saviour is left very uncertain . ) where again do they find a command for the necessary use of conceived prayer , and that that , and no other , should be used in the publick worship of god ? and that they must prove that maintain publick forms unlawful . where again do they find it required that an oath is to be taken by laying the hand on the gospel and kissing the book ? which is both a natural and instituted part of worship , being a solemn invocation of god and an appeal to him , with an acknowledgment of his omniscience , and omnipresence ; his providence and government of the world ; his truth and justice to right the innocent and punish the guilty ; all which is owned and testified by kissing that book that god has declared this more especially in . and if we more particularly descend to those that differ from us in this point : where do those of the congregational way find that ever christians were otherwise divided from christians than by place , or that they did combine into particular churches , so as not to be all the while reputed members of another , and might be admitted , upon removal of place , upon the same terms that they were of that they removed from ; or indeed that they were so members of a particular as not to be members of any or the whole church of christ , upon their being baptized ? where do they find that christians were gathered out of christians , and did combine into a society excluding those from it that would not make a profession of their faith and conversion distinct from that at baptism ? where do we ever read that he that was a minister of one church was not a minister all the world over , as well as he that was baptized in one was reputed a christian and church-member wherever he came ? again , where do we read that its necessary that ministers should be alike in authority , power , and jurisdiction , and that there is to be no difference in point of order and superiority amongst them : or that there are to be elders for governing the church , who are not ordained to it , and are in no other state after than they were before that service , both of which are held by the presbyterians , strictly so called ? and if it be said these respect government but not worship ; i answer the case is the same , for if we are to do nothing but what is prescribed in the worship of god , because , ( as they say ) it derogates from the priestly office of christ , and doth detract from the sufficiency of scripture ; then i say upon the like reason , there must be nothing used in church government but what is prescribed , since the kingly office is as much concerned in this as the priestly in the other , and the sufficiency of scripture in both . lastly , where do any of them find that position in scripture , that there is nothing lawful in divine worship but what is prescribed , and that what is not commanded is forbidden ? and if there be no such position in scripture , then that can no more be true than the want of such a position can render things not commanded to be unlawful . and now i am come to that which must put an issue one way or other to the dispute ; for if there be no such position in scripture , either expressed in it , or to be gathered by good consequence from it , we have gain'd the point ; but if there be , then we must give it up . and this is indeed contended for . for it s objected , that it s accounted in scripture an hainous crime to do things not commanded ; as when nadab and abihu offered strange fire before the lord , which he commanded them not , &c. from which form of expression it may be collected , that what is not commanded is forbidden ; and that in every thing used in divine worship there must be a command to make it lawful and allowable . to this i answer that the proposition infer'd , that all things not commanded are forbidden , is not true , and so it cannot be the sence and meaning of the phrase ; for . then all things must be either commanded or forbidden ; and there would be nothing but what must be commanded or forbidden ; but i have before shewed , and it must be granted , that there are things neither commanded nor forbidden , which are called indifferent . . if things not commanded are forbidden , then a thing not commanded is alike hainous as a thing forbidden . and then david's temple which he designed to build would have been criminal as well as jeroboam's dan and bethel ; and the feast of a purim , like jeroboam's eighth month b ; and the synogogal worship like the sacrificing in gardens c ; and the hours of prayer d like nadab's strange fire . the former of which were things uncommanded , and the latter forbidden ; and yet they were approved and these condemned . . the things , to which this phrase not commanded is applied , do give no encouragement to such an inference from it ; for its constantly applied to such as are absolutely forbidden . this was the case of nadab and abihu , who offered fire not meerly uncommanded , but what was prohibited ; which will appear , if we consider that the word strange when applied to matters of worship doth signify as much as forbidden . thus we read of strange incense , that is , other than what was compounded according to the directions given for it ; which as it was to be put to no common uses , so no common perfume was to be put to the like uses with it . so we also read of strange vanities , which is but another word for graven images ; and of strange gods. and after the same sort is it to be understood in the case before us , viz. for what is forbidden . for that such was the fire made use of by those young men will be further confirm'd , if we consider that there is scarcely any thing belonging to the altar ( setting aside the structure of it ) of which more is said than of the fire burning upon it . for . it was lighted from heaven a . . it was always to be burning upon the altar . b . if it was not made use of in all sacred matters ( where fire was to be used ) yet it was most holy , and when atonement was to be made by incense , the coals were to be taken from thence c , and therefore surely was as peculiar to those offices as the incense , and to be as constantly used in them , as never to be used in any other . and it will yet make it more evident if it be considered . that just before there is an account given of the extraordinary way by which this fire was lighted , for the text saith , there came out a fire from before the lord , and consumed upon the altar the burnt-offering , &c. and immediately follows the relation of nadab's miscarriage . now for what reason are these things so closely connected , but to shew wherein they offended . for before it was the office of aaron's sons to put fire upon the altar , and now through inadvertency or presumption attempting to do as formerly , when there had been this declaration from heaven to the contrary , they suffered for it . . it appears further from the conformity betwixt the punishment and the sin ; as there came fire from before the lord and consumed the burnt-offering ; to teach them what fire for the future to make use of : so upon their transgression there came out fire from the lord and devoured them ; to teach others how dangerous it was to do otherwise than he had commanded . so that it seems to me to be like the case of vzzah , when they carried the ark in a cart , which the levites were to have born upon their shoulders ; and it was not an offering without a command , but otherwise than commanded , that was their fault ; and without doubt they might with no more offence have taken what fire they would for their incense , than what wood they pleased for their fire , if there had been no more direction about the one than the other . but to proceed in the other places of scripture where this phrase of not commanded is to be met with , it s also so applied to things forbidden ; as to what is called abomination , which is the worshipping of strange gods , the sun , moon and stars , and the host of heaven : to the building the high places of topheth , and the burning their sons and daughters in the fire to baal , and causing them to pass through the fire unto molech . of such and the like its said , which i commanded them not , neither came it into my mind . and lastly it 's applied to the false prophets , who spake lies in the name of the lord ; in which case the meer being not commanded nor sent by him , is in the nature of the thing no less than a prohibition , it being a belying god ; though there had been no such place as , deut. . . to forbid it . now if so much stress was to be laid upon the phrase , as the objection doth suppose , and that we must take a non-commanding for a prohibition , we might reasonably expect to find the phrase otherwhere applied to things that were no otherwise unlawful than because not commanded ; but when it s always spoken of things plainly prohibited , it s a sign that it s rather god's forbidding that made them unlawful , than his not commanding . but it may still be said , why should then the phrase be used at all in such matters , and why should the case be thus represented , if not commanded is not the same with prohibited ? to this i answer , . that all things prohibited are by consequence not commanded ; but it follows not that all things not commanded are prohibited . if it was forbidden to offer strange fire , then it was a thing not commanded ( for otherwise the same thing would be forbidden and commanded ) but if it had been a thing not commanded only , it would not by being so have been any more prohibited than the wood that was to be burnt upon the altar . now it s with respect to the former that things prohibited are call'd things not commanded ; and not with respect to the latter . . indeed the phrase not commanded is only a meiosis or softer way of speaking , when more is understood than express'd . a figure usual in all authors and languages , that i know of , and what is frequently to be met with in scripture . thus it s given as a character of an hypocritical people , they chose that in which i delighted not , which is but another word for what was said in the verse before , their soul delighted in their abominations , or idolatries . and when the apostle would describe the evil state of the gentile world , by the most hainous and flagitious crimes , such as fornication , covetousness , maliciousness , envy , murder , and what not , he saith of these , that they were things not convenient . and it is as evident that the phrase not commanded is of the like kind , when the things its applied to are alike notorious and abominable . but it s further objected , that it s said in scripture , ye shall not add unto the word which i command you , neither shall ye diminish ought from it : and that our saviour condemning the practices of the scribes in this kind , concludes , in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. from whence it may be collected . that all things not commanded by god in his word are additions to it . . that such additions are altogether unlawful . to this i reply , . if they mean by adding to the word , the doing what that forbids , and by diminishing , the neglecting of what that requires ( as the next words do intimate , and is plainly the sense otherwhere a , when it s no sooner said , what thing soever i command you , observe to do it ; but it immediately follows , thou shalt not add thereto , nor diminish from it ) it s what we willingly condemn ; according to that of our saviour , whosoever shall break one of these least commandments , and shall teach men so , he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven . . if they mean by adding the appointing somewhat else instead of what god hath appointed , as jeroboam did the feast of the eighth month ; and by diminishing , the taking away what god hath commanded , as ahaz did the altar , and laver , &c. this is what we condemn also , and do blame in the church of rome , whilst they feed the people with legends instead of scripture , and take away both that and the cup from the laity . . if they mean by adding , the adding insolent expositions to the command , by which the end of it is frustrated . this our saviour condemn'd in the pharisees , why do ye transgress the command of god by your tradition ? for god commanded saying , honour thy father , &c. but ye say , whosoever shall say to his father , it is a gift , &c. thus ye have made the commandment of god of none effect by your tradition . and this we condemn in the church of rome , who do defeat the commands of god by their doctrines of attrition and purgatory , &c. . if they mean by adding , the making of that which is not the word of god to be of equal authority with it ; this our saviour condemn'd in the pharisees , when they taught for doctrines the commandments of men , and esteem'd them as necessary to be obeyed , and to be of equal force with what was authorized by him ; nay it seems , they had more regard to the tradition of the elders than the commandment of god , as our saviour insinuates , verse , , . and has been observed from their own authors . this we also condemn in the church of rome , which decrees that the apocrypha and traditions should be received with the like pious regard , as the sacred writ . . if by adding they mean the giving the same efficacy to humane institutions , as god doth to his , by making them to confer grace upon the rightly disposed ; and by diminishing , that the service is not complete without it . this our saviour condemn'd in the pharisees , when they maintained that to eat with unwashen hands defiled a man , verse . and this we condemn in the church of rome , in their use of holy-water , and reliques and ceremonies . thus far we agree ; but if they proceed , and will conclude that the doing any thing not commanded , in the worship of god is a sin though it have none of the ingredients in it before spoken of , we therein differ from them and upon very good reason . for therein they differ from our saviour and his apostles , and all churches , as i have shewed . therein also they depart from the notion and reason of the thing : for adding is adding to the substance , and making the thing added of the nature of the thing it s added to ; and diminishing is diminishing from the substance , and taking away from the nature of it ; but when the substance remains intire , as much after this humane appointment as it was before it , without loss and prejudice , without debasement or corruption , it cannot be called an addition to it , in the sence that the scripture takes that word in . nay so far are we from admitting this charge , that we return it upon them , and do bring them in criminals upon it . for those that do forbid what the gospel forbids not , do as much add to it , as those that command what the gospel doth not command : and if it be a crime to command what that commands not , it must be so to forbid what it forbids not . and this is what they are guilty of that do hold that nothing is to be used in the worship of god but what is prescribed , for if that be not a scripture proposition and truth ( as certain it is not ) then what an addition is this ? a greater surely than what they charge upon us ; for all that is commanded amongst us , is look'd upon not as necessary but expedient ; but what is forbid by them is forbid as absolutely unlawful ; the latter of which alters the nature , whereas the other only affects the circumstances of things . the second commandment , thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image , &c. is frequently made use of to prove that we must apply nothing to a religious use but what is commanded ; and we are told that the sence of it is , that we must worship god in no other way , and by no other means or religious rites , than what he hath prescribed . the best way to answer this is . . to consider what is forbidden in this commandment , and . to shew that we are not concern'd in the prohibition . as to the former , . in this command it is provided , that there be no act of adoration given to any besides god. by this the heathens are condemned in their plurality of gods , and the church of rome in the veneration they give to saints and angels . . that the honour we give to god be sutable to his nature , and agreeable to his will. sutable to his nature ; and so we are not to worship him by creatures , as the sun , &c. for that is to consider him as finite ; nor by images and external representations , for that is to consider him as corporeal : agreeable to his will ; and so we are forbidden all other worship of him than what he hath appointed . it s in the last of these we are concerned , for i believe there will be no attempt to prove that there is any thing in our worship that doth derogate from the perfections of god , and is unsutable to his nature , further than the defects that must arise from all worship given by creatures to a creator . and if we come to consider it as to what he hath revealed , there can be nothing deduced thence to prove rites instituted by men for the solemnity of god's service to be forbidden ; and which for ought i see is not attempted to be proved from this commandment , or from scripture else where , but by crowding such rites into and representing them as a part of divine worship . this way goes one of the most industrious in this cause . ceremonies , saith he , are external rites of religious worship , as used to further devotion , and therefore being invented by man are of the same nature with images , by which and at which god is worshipped . in which are no less than three mistakes . as . he makes whatever is used to further devotion to be religious worship . . he makes it a fault in external rites in religious worship that they are used to further devotion . he makes external rites taken up by men , and used for that end to be of the same nature with images . if i shew that these are really mistakes i think that in doing so the whole argument taken from the . commandment falls with it . . he mistakes , in that he makes whatever is used to further devotion to be religious worship : the error of which will appear from this confideration ; that all things relating to divine worship are either parts or adjuncts of it ; parts , as prayer , and the lord's supper ; adjuncts , as form and posture . now adjuncts are not parts , because the worship is intire and invariable in all the parts of it , and remains the same though the adjuncts vary . prayer is worship , whether with a form or without ; and the lord's supper is worship , whether persons kneel , sit , or stand in the receiving of it . and yet though the adjuncts are no part of worship , they further devotion in it . this those that are for conceived prayer plead for their practice , and this also is pleaded by those that are for a form. this do they urge that are for sitting at the lord's supper , and this they say that are for kneeling ; so that these and the like adjuncts do further devotion , and are for edification , is an argument used by both . now if adjuncts are not part of worship and may be yet used to further devotion , then the furthering devotion by any rite doth not in it self make that rite so used to be worship . i acknowledge there is false worship as well as true ; true worship is of divine institution , and false worship is of humane appointment ; and becomes worship when either divine institution is pretended for it , or it s used for the same special ends that god's worship is instituted for , that is , as necessary to acceptance , or as a means of grace . and so i confess adjuncts may be made parts of false worship , as many ceremonies are in the church of rome ; but this is not the case with any things used in the administration of worship in our church ; we plead nothing of divine authority to enforce them , use them not as necessary , nor as means of grace ; after the manner we do the word of god , and the sacraments . . it s another mistake , that its charged as a fault upon rites in worship , that they are used to further devotion . without this end surely they are not to be used , or at least not to be encouraged ; for divine worship being the acknowledgment of god and a giving honour to him , should have all things about it grave and solemn , that may best sute it , and promote the ends for which it s used , but if rites are used in it that have no respect to such ends , they become vain and trifling , neither worthy of that nor our defence . and therefore we justly blame the church of rome for the multitude of ceremonies used in their worship , and for such that either have no signification , or whose signification is so obscure as is not easie to be observed or traced , and that rather hinder than further devotion . surely it would not so well answer the end if the hand in swearing was laid upon another book , as when on the gospel ; nor if the love-feasts at the lord's supper had been only as a common meal , without respect to charity signified by it . . it s another mistake that external rites taken up by men , and used for the furthering devotion are made to be of the same nature with images . this there is no foundation for , for the religious use of images is expresly contrary to the command of god , and forbidden , because it tends to debase god in the thoughts of those that worship him by such mediums . but there is nothing in the use of such external rites ( as are before spoken of ) that fall under the censure of either of these ; but that we may lawfully use them , and the use of which is not therefore at all forbidden in the . commandment . if there be not a rule for all things belonging to the worship of god , the gospel would be less perfect than the law ; and christ would not be so faithful as moses , in the care of his church , heb. . . which is not to be supposed . the sufficiency of scripture and faithfulness of christ are not to be judged of by what we fancy they should have determined , but by what they have . it s a plausiable plea made by the church of rome for an infallible judge in matters of faith , that by an appeal to him all controversies would be decided , and the peace of the church secured . but notwithstanding all the advantages which they so hugely amplify , there is not one word in scripture ( which in a matter of that importance is absolutely necessary ) that doth shew that it is necessary ; or ( were it so ) who the person or persons are that should have this power or commission . and in this case we must be content to leave things as the wisdom of god hath thought fit to leave them , and to go on in the old way of sober and amicable debate and fair reasoning to bring debates to a conclusion . thus it is in the matter before us , the pretence is very popular and plausible , that , who can better determine things relating to the worship of god , than god whose worship it is ? and where may we expect to find them better determined than in his word , which is sufficient to all the ends it was writ for ? but when we come to enquire into the case , we find no such thing done , no such care taken , no such particular directions as they had under the law ; and therefore its certain that neither the sufficiency of scripture , nor faithfulness of christ stand upon that foundation . and if we do not find the like particular prescriptions in baptism as circumcision ; nor in the lord's supper as in the passover ; nor in prayers as in sacrifices ; its plain that the sufficiency of scripture and faithfulness of christ do respect somewhat else , and that they are not the less for the want of them . christ was faithful , as moses , to him that appointed him , in performing what belonged to him as a mediator ( in which respect moses was a type of him ) and discovering to mankind in scripture the method and means by which they might be sav'd ; and the sufficiency of scripture is in being a sufficient means to that end , and putting men into such state as will render them capable of attaining to it . and as for modes and circumstances of things they are left to the prudence of those who by the grace and the word of god have been converted to the truth , and have received it in the love of it . i have been the larger in the consideration of this principle , viz. that nothing but what is prescribed may be lawfully used in divine worship , that i might relieve the consciences of those that are insnared by it , and that cannot be so , without subjecting themselves to great inconveniences . for if nothing but what is of that nature may be used or joyned with , and that the second commandment doth with as much authority forbid the use of any thing not commanded , as the worshipping of images : if nadab's and abihu's strange fire , and vzza's touching of the ark be examples recorded for caution to us , and that every thing uncommanded , is of the like nature , attended with the like aggravations , and alike do expose to god's displeasure : if the use of any thing not prescribed be such an addition to the word of god , as leaves us under the penalty of that text ; if any man shall add unto these things , god shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book ; we cannot be too cautious in the examination of what is , or what is not prescribed . but withall if this be our case , it would be more intolerable than that of the jews . for amongst them every thing for the most part was plainly laid down , and though the particular rites and circumstances prescribed in their service were many , yet they were sufficiently describ'd in their law , and it was but consulting that , or those whose office and employment it was to be well versed in it , and they might be presently inform'd , and as soon see it as the book was laid open . this they all agreed in . but it is not so under the gospel , and there is no greater proof of it than the several schemes drawn up for discipline , and order , by those that have been of that opinion and made some attempts to describe them . and then when things are thus dark and obscure , so hard to trace and discover , that it has thus perplexed and baffled those that have made it their business to bring these things within scripture rules , how perplexed must they be that are not skilled in it : and ( as i have above shewed ) must all their days live in the communion , its likely , of no church ; since though a church should have nothing in it but what is prescribed , yet it would take up a great deal of time to examine , and more to be satisfied that all in it is prescribed . . i shall consider , how we may know what things are indifferent in the worship of god ? i may answer , to this that we may know what is indifferent in the worship of god by the same rule that we may know what is indifferent out of worship , that is , if the thing to be enquired after be neither required nor forbidden : for the nature of indifferency is always the same , and what it is in one kind or instance , it is in all ; and if the want of a law to require or forbid doth make a thing indifferent in natural or civil matters , it doth also the same in religious : and in things forbidden by humane authority , the not being required in scripture ; and in things required by humane authority the not being forbidden in scripture is a rule we may safely determine the case , and judge of the lawfulness and indifferency of things in divine worship by . but i confess the question requires a more particular answer , because things in their nature lawful and indifferent , may yet , in their use and application , become unlawful . as it is in civil cases and secular matters , to be covered or uncovered is a thing in it self indifferent ; but to be covered in the presence of such of our betters , as custom and law have made it our duty to stand bare before , would be unlawful , and it would be no excuse for such an omission and contempt , that the thing is in it self indifferent . and then much more will this hold where the case is of an higher nature ; as it is in the worship of god , where things in themselves indifferent may become ridiculous , absurd and profane , and argue rather contempt of god than reverence for him in the persons using them . again , the things may , though grave and pertinent , yet be so numerous that they may obscure and oppress the service , and confound and distract the mind that should attend to the observation of them ; and so for one reason or another are not to be allowed in the solemnities of religion . therefore in answer to the question , i shall add , . that things indifferent are so called from their general nature , and not as if in practice and use , and all manner of cases , they always were so , and never unlawful ; for that they may be by accident and circumstance ; being lawful unlawful , expedient or inexpedient , as they are used and applied . . i observe that there are several laws which things indifferent do respect ; and that may be required or forbidden by one law , which is not forbidden or required by another ; and that may be indifferent in one state which is unlawful in another , and by passing out of one into the other may cease to be indifferent , and therefore when we say things are indifferent , we must understand of what rank they are , and what law they do respect ; as for example , humane conversation , and religious worship are different ranks to which things are referred ; and therefore what may be indifferent in conversation may be unlawful in worship . thus to enterchange discourse about common affairs is a thing lawful in it self , and useful in its place ; but when practised in the church and in the midst of religious solemnities is criminal . this distinction of ranks and states of things is useful and necessary to be observed , and which if observed would have prevented the objection made by some , that if a church or authority may command indifferent things , then they may require us to pray standing upon the head , &c. for that though indifferent in another case is not in that , as being unsutable to it . . therefore we must come to some rules in divine worship , by which we may know what things in their nature indifferent , are therein also indifferent , and may be lawfully used : it being not enough to plead they are indifferent in themselves ( as some unwarily do ) and therefore presently they may be used ; for by the same reason a person may spit in anothers face , may keep on his hat before the king , &c. the spitting and being covered being in their nature indifferent . but now as there are certain rules which we are to respect in common and civil conversation , and which even in that case do tye us up in the use of things otherwise indifferent : so it is as reasonable , and must be much more allowed that there are some rules of the like nature which we must have a regard to in the administration of divine worship . and as in common matters , the nature of the thing ; in actions the end ; in conversation the circumstances are to be heeded , viz. time , place , persons ; as when , where , before whom we are covered or uncovered , &c. so in sacred matters ; the nature of the thing , in the decency and solemnity of the worship ; the end for which it was appointed , in the edification of the church ; and the peace , glory , and security of that , in its order are to be respected . and according to these rules and the circumstances of things , are we to judge of the indifferency , lawfulness , or expediency of things used in the service of god ; and as they do make for or against , and do approach to or recede from these characters , so they are to be rejected or observed , and the more or less esteemed . but yet we are not come to a conclusion , for . these are general rules , and so the particulars are not so easily pointed to . . decency , and edification , and order are ( as was observed before ) variable and uncertain , and depend upon circumstances , and so in their nature not easily determined . and , . persons have very different opinions about what is decent , edifying , and orderly ; as in the apostles time in the church of rome some were for , and others against the observation of days ; and in the church of corinth , some doubtless were for being covered , others for being uncovered in divine worship . and therefore there is somewhat further requisite to give satisfaction in the point ; and by which we may be able to judge what is decent , edifying , and orderly ; as well as we are by what is decent , &c. to determine what is fit to be used in religious worship . and this we may be help'd in by considering , . that some things make so eminently for , or are so notoriously opposite to these rules , that common reason will be able forthwith to judge of them , and to declare for or against them . so when the love-feasts , and the lord's supper were appointed for the testifying and increase of mutual charity ; if one took his supper before another , it was to make it rather a private meal than a religious feast , and so was a notorious breach of order and christian fellowship . so a tumultuous speaking of many together is less for edification , and hath more of confusion than the orderly speaking of one by one . and service in an unknown tongue doth less conduce to edification than when it is in a language vulgarly known and understood ; this is a case that reason as well as the apostle doth determine to our hands , and which mankind would with one consent soon agree to , were it not for a certain church in the world that carries those of its communion , against sense , reason , and nature , for its own advantage . . but there are other things which are not so clear and evident , and so the case needs further consideration . for the clearing of which we may observe , . that we are not so much to judge of decency , order , and edification asunder , as together ; these having a mutual relation to and dependance upon each other . so it s well observed by st. chrysostom , that nothing doth so much edify , as order , peace and love : and the apostle when he had reproved the disorders of their service in the church of corinth concludes it , let all things be done to edifying . the not observing of this is the occasion of very great mistakes in this matter ; for persons when they would judge of edification consider presently what they conceive doth most improve them in knowledge or any particular grace ; and having no further consideration , for the sake of this throw down the bounds of publick order and bring all into confusion ; and for edifying ( as they apprehend ) themselves do disturb if not destroy the church of god , and render the means used in it ineffectual to themselves and others . thus again they judge of what is decent , and indecent ; and conclude that there is no indecency in sitting , suppose at the sacrament , or the prayers ; but they mistake in such a conception , whilest what is against publick order and practice , is for that reason indecent , were there no other reason to make it so . so that if we would judge aright of either of these we must judge of them together ; and as order alone is not enough to make a thing decent which is in it self indecent ; so decency or particular edification is not enough to recommend that which is not to be introduced or obtained without the disturbance and overthrow of publick order and peace . . when the case is not apparent , we should rather judge by what is contrary than by what is agreeable to those rules . we know better what things are not than what they are : and if christians should never agree to any thing in the external administration of divine worship till they agree in the notion of decency , order , and edification ; or till they can prove that the things used , or required to be used in a church , do exactly agree to the notion and definition of it ; worship must never be administred , or the greater part of christians must exclude themselves from it . and yet this must be done before it can be positively said ( unless in things very manifest ) that this is decent , or that is orderly , &c. these things as i have said are variable , and depend upon circumstances ; and so persons must needs be wonderfully confounded if they come to niceties and insist upon them . and therefore as we better know what is indecent than decent , disorderly than orderly , against than for edification , so it s better to take the course abovesaid in judging about it . as for instance , if we would enquire into the decency of the posture to be used in the lord's supper , or the edification that may arise from it ; some will say its best to receive it in the posture frequently used in the devotions of the ancient church of standing or incurvation ; others would choose sitting , as the dissenting parties amongst us , and some forreign churches ; others be for the posture of kneeling used in ours and many more , and all with some shew of reason . in these different cases it may not perhaps be so easy for a person ( educated in a different way from what is practised and prescribed ) to judge of the decency or edification ; but if he find it not indecent , or destructive of piety , and of the ends for which the ordinance was instituted , he is therewith to satisfy himself . st. austin puts a like case and gives the like answer . some churches fast on the saturday , because christ's body was then in the grave , and he in a state of humiliation . others do eat on the saturday , both because that day god rested from his work , and christ rested in the grave . and how in such a case to determine our selves , both in opinion and practice , that father thus directs , if saith he , what is injoyned be not against faith , or good manners , it is to be accounted indifferent . and i may add , if it be not indecent , disorderly and destructive of piety , its lawful . . if the case be not apparent , and we cannot easily find out how the things used and injoyned in a church are decent , &c. we are to consider that we are in , or obliged to be of a church , and that these things do respect such a society ; and therefore are to be cautious how we condemn this or that for indecent , confused , and inexpedient , when we see christians agreeing in the practice of them , and such whom for other things we cannot condemn . when we find if we argue against it , they argue for it , and produce experience against experience , and reason against reason , and that we have a whole church against our particular conceptions of things of this nature ; we should be apt to think the fault may be in our selves , and that it s for want of understanding and insight , for want of use and tryal , and by reason of some prejudices or prepossessions that we thus differ in our judgment from them . we see what little things do determin men ordinarily in these matters ; how addicted some are to their own ways and customs , and forward to like or condemn according to their education , which doth form their conceptions and fix their inclinations ; how prone again others are to novelty and innovation . so st. austin observes , some warmly contend for an usage , because its the custom of their own church ; as if they come , suppose into another place where lent is observed without any relaxation , they however refuse to fast , because it s not so done in their country . there are others again do like , and are bent upon a particular rite or usage , because , saith he , they observ'd this in their travels abroad , and so a person is for it , as perhaps he would be thought so much the more learned and considerable , as he is distant or doth disagree from what is observed at home . now when persons are prone thus to judge upon such little reasons , and may mistake in their judgment , and do judge against a church ( which they have no other reason against ) it would become them to think again ; and to think that the case perhaps requires only time or use to wear off their prejudices , and that by these ways they may as effectually be reconciled to the things practised in a church , as they are to the civil usages and the habits of a nation , which at the first they looked upon in their kind as indecent and inexpedient , as they can do of the usages of a church in theirs . as suppose the dispute should be about forms of prayer , or the use of responsals in it , we see that decency , order , and edification are pleaded by the parties contending for and against , but when a person considers that whatever opinion he therein hath , yet if he be against them , he is at the same time against all formed churches in the world , he may conclude safely that there is a decency , order , and expediency in the publick use of them ; and as st. austin saith of a christian living in rome where they fasted upon the saturday that such a one should not so praise a christian city for it , as to condemn the christian world that was against it ; so we should not be so zealous against a practice , as to condemn those that are for it , and be so addicted to our own opinion as to set that against a community and a church , nay against all churches whatsoever . this will give us reason to suspect its a zeal without knowledge when we presume to set our judgment , reason , and experience , against the judgment , reason and experience of the christian world. which brings to the fourth general . . how are we to determine our selves in the use of indifferent things with respect to the worship of god ? for resolution of which , we are to consider our selves in a threefold capacity . . as particular persons , solitary and alone . . as we are in ordinary and civil conversation . . as we are members of a publick society or church . in the first capacity , every christian may chuse and act as he pleaseth ; and all lawful things remain to him , as they are in their own nature , free. he may eat this or that ; chuse this day or another , and set it apart for the service of god and his own soul. in this state , where there is no law of man to require , he may forbear to use what is indifferent ; where there is no law to forbid , he may freely use it . in the second capacity , as in conversation with others , he is to have a regard to them , and to use his liberty so as shall be less to the prejudice , and more to the benefit of those he converses with . so saith the apostle , all things are lawful for me , but all things are not expedient ; all things are lawful for me , but all things edify not . in this capacity men are still in their own power ; and whilst it s no sin they may safely act , and where it s no sin they may forbear in complyance with those that are not yet advanced to the same maturity of judgement with themselves ; as the apostle did , though saith he , i be free from all men , yet have i made my self servant unto all , that i might gain the more . and unto the jews i became a jew , &c. in such a case the strong should not despise , affront , or discourage the weak ; nor the weak censure and condemn the strong . in the third capacity , as we are members of a church and religious society , so the use of indifferent things comes under further consideration , since then the practice of a church and the commands of authority are to be respected . and as what we may lawfully do when alone , we are not to do in conversation , because of offence : so what we may allowably do when alone or in conversation , we must not do in society , if forbidden by the laws and customs of it . for the same reason ( if there was no more ) that restrains or determines us in conversation , is as much more forcible in society , as the peace and welfare of the whole is to be preferred before that of a part ; and if the not grieving a brother , or endangering his soul makes it reasonable , just , and necessary to forego our liberty , and to restrain our selves in the exercise of it , then much more is the peace of a church ( upon which the present welfare of the whole , and the future welfare of many depend ) a sufficient reason for so doing , and to oblige us to act or not to act accordingly . the apostle saith , let every one of us please his neighbour for his good ▪ to edification , that is , to his improvement in knowledge or grace , or christian piety , and the promoting of christian concord and charity : now edification is eminently so with respect to the whole , as the church is the house of god , and every christian one of the living stones of which that spiritual building is compacted ; and so he is to consider himself , as well as he is to be considered , as a part of it , and to study what may be for the edification of the whole , as well as the good of any particular member of it . and how is that but by promoting love , peace , and order , and taking care to preserve it ? so we find edification opposed to destruction , to confusion , to disputacity and licentiousness : and on the contrary , we find peace and edifying , comfort and edification , union and edification joyned together , as the one doth promote the other . and therefore as the good and edification of the whole is to be always in our eye , so it s the rule by which we ought to act in all things lawful ; and to that end should comply with its customs , observe its directions , and obey its orders , without reluctancy ▪ and opposition . thus the apostle resolves the case , writing about publick order and the custom newly taken up of worshipping uncovered , if any man seem , or have a mind to be , contentious , we have no such custom , neither the churches of god ; looking upon that as sufficient to put an end to all contentions and debates ; that whatever might be plausibly urged against it , from the jewish practice , and the representation even of angels adoring after that manner ; and from the reason of the thing as a signification of shame and reverence ; or from the practice of idolators that did many of them worship uncovered ; yet he peremptorily concludes , we have no such custom , &c. the peace of the church is to a peaceable mind sufficient to put an end to all disputes about it ; and the peace of the church depending upon the observation of its customs , that is infinitely to be preferred before scrupulosity and niceness , or a meer inclination to a contrary practice . for in publick cases a man is not to go his own way , or to have his own mind , for that would bring in confusion ( one man having as much a right as another . ) there must be somewhat established , some common order and bond of union ; and if confusion is before such establishment , then to break that establishment , would bring in confusion ; and where that is likely to ensue it is not worth the while for the trial of a new experiment to decry and throw down what is already established or used in a church , because we think better of another ; for saith a grave author , and well skill'd in these matters , the very change of a custom though it may happen to profit , yet doth disturb by its novelty . publick peace is worth all new offers ( if the church is disquieted and its peace endangered by them ) though in themselves better ; and it is better to labour under the infirmity of publick order than the mischief of being without it , or , what is next to that , the trial of some form , seemingly of a better cast and mould that hath not yet been experimented . i say it again , infirmity in a church is better than confusion , or destruction which is the consequent of it : and i had rather choose that as i would a house , to have one with some faults , rather than to have none at all ; and if i cannot have them mended ( when tolerable ) i think my self bound not only to bear with them , but to do all i can for its preservation though with them , and to observe all things that are lawful for its suppore and encouragement . in doing thus i serve god , and his church , my own soul and the souls of others , promote religion and charity in the world ; for god is not the author of confusion but of peace in all the churches of the saints . in things which neither we nor the worship are the worse for , but the church the better for observing , peace and order is far to be prefer'd before niceties : and certainly neither we nor the service of god can be the worse for what god hath concluded nothing in . what the gospel looks at is the main and essential parts of religion in doctrine , worship and practice . and if these be secured , we are under no obligation to contend for or against the modes and circumstances of things further than the churches order and peace is concerned in them . so the apostle , let not your good be evil spoken of : for the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness , peace , and joy in the holy-ghost ; the promoting love and charity , and substantiul righteousnes . he that in these things serveth christ is acceptable to god , and approved of men. the beauty of the kings daughter is within , saith st. austin , and all its observations are but its vesture , which though various in different churches , are no prejudice to the common faith , nor to him that useth them . and therefore what he and his mother received from st. ambrose , and looked upon as a divine oracle , is worthy to be recommended to all , that in all things not contrary to truth and good manners , it becometh a good and prudent christian to practise according to the custom of the church where he comes , if he will not be a scandal to them , nor have them to be a scandal to him . and if the custom and practice of a church should be thus taken into consideration by a good man , then certainly much more ought it so to be , when that is established , and is made a law , and is backed by authority : for then to stand in opposition is not only an offence but an affront ; and to insist upon the gratifying our own inclination against publick order , is to contend whether we or our superiours shall govern , whether our will or the publick good and order must take place and what can be the issue of such a temper but the distraction if not dissolution of government ; which as it cannot be without governed as well as governours , so cannot be preserved without the submission of the governed in all lawful things to the governours ; and the permitting them to choose and determine in things of that kind as they shall see meet . it s pleaded that there should be a liberty left to christians in things vndetermined in scripture , and such things indeed there are that christians may have a liberty in and yet hold communion , as in posture , &c. ( though decency would plead for uniformity in those things also ) but there are other things , which they must agree in , or else there can be no publick worship or christian communion , which yet they differ in as much as the other . as now whether worship is to be celebrated with or without a form ; whether the lord's supper is to be received in the morning or evening ; whether prayers should be long or short , &c. now unless one of these disagreeing parties doth yield to the other or there be a power in superiours and guides to determine for them , and they are to submit to them in it , there will be nothing but confusion . and why superiours may not then command and why inferiours are not to obey in all things of the like kind ; in posture or habit , as well as the time ( above specified ) and forms , i understand not . to conclude this , if we find any thing required or generally practised in a church , that is not forbidden in scripture ; or any thing omitted or forbidden in a church , that is not required in scripture ; we may and ought to act or to forbear as they that are of its communion do generally act or forbear , or the laws of that communion require ; and in such things are to be determined by the publick voice of the communion , that is , authority , custom , or the majority . but to this it will be said , if we are thus to be determined in our practice , then where is our christian liberty , which being only in different things , if we are restrained in the use of them , we are also restrained in our liberty , which yet the apostle exhorts christians to stand fast in . . this is no argument to those that say there is nothing indifferent in the worship of god ; for then there is nothing in it matter of christian liberty ; . a restraint of our liberty , or receding from it is , of it self , no violation of it . all persons grant this in the latter , and the most scrupulous are apt to plead that the strong ought to bear with the weak , and to give no offence to them by indulging themselves in that liberty which others are afraid to take . but now if a person may recede from his liberty , and is bound so to do in the case of scandal , and yet his liberty be not thereby infringed , why may it not be also little infringed , when restrained by others ? how can it be supposed , that there should be so vast a difference betwixt restraint and restraint , and that he that is restrained by authority should have his liberty prejudiced , and yet he that is restrained by anothers conscience ( as the apostle saith ) should keep it intire ? and if it should be said this is occasional , but the other is perpetuated by the order , perhaps , of a church . i answer , that all orders about indifferent things are but temporary , and are only intended to bind so long as they are for the good of the community . and if they are for continuance that alters not the case ; for though the apostle knew his own liberty and where there was just reason could insist upon it , yet he did not suppose that could be damnified , though for his whole life it was restrain'd . for thus he resolves , if meat make my brother to offend , i will eat no flesh while the world standeth , which certainly he would not have condescended to , if such a practice was not reconcileable to his exhortation of standing fast in that liberty , &c. . therefore to find out the tendency of his exhortation , its fit to understand what christian liberty is , and that is truly no other than the liberty which mankind naturally had , before it was restrain'd by particular institution ; and which is call'd christian liberty in opposition to the jews which had it not under their law , but were restrain'd from the practice and use of things , otherwise and in themselves lawful , by severe prohibitions . now as all the world was then divided into jews and gentiles , so the liberty which the jews were before denied , was call'd christian , because by the coming of christ , all these former restraints were taken off , and all the world , both jews and gentiles did enjoy it . and therefore when the apostle doth exhort them to stand fast in it , it was , as the scope of the epistle doth shew , to warn them against returning to that jewish state , and against those who held it necessary for both jew and gentile still to observe all the rites and orders of it . now if the usages of a church were of the same kind , or had the same tendency , or were alike necessarily impos'd as those of the mosaical law , then christians would be concerned in the apostles exhortation ; but where these reasons are not , our liberty is not at all prejudiced by compliance with them . as long i say , as they are neither peccant in their nature , nor end , nor number , they are not unlawful to us , nor is our liberty injured in the use of them . and so i am brought to the last general , which is , v. that there is nothing required in our church , which is not either a duty in it self , and so necessary to all christians , or else what is indifferent , and so may be lawfully used by them . by things required , i mean , such as are used in the communion and service of our church , and imposed upon the lay-members of it ( for these are the things my subject doth more especially respect . ) this is a subject too copious for me to follow through all the particulars of it ; and indeed it will be needless for me to enlarge upon it , if the foundation i have laid be good , and the rules before given are fit measures for us to judge of the lawfulness , or unlawfulness of things by ; for by these we shall soon bring the cause to an issue . i think there is nothing to be charged upon our church for being defective in any essential part of divine worship● ( as the church of rome is in its half-communion ) nor of any practice that is apparently inconsistent with , or that doth defeat the ends of any institution ( as the same church doth offend by having its service in an unknown tongue , and in the multitude of its ceremonies ) . i think it will be acknowledged , that the word of god is sincerely and freely preached , the sacraments intirely and truly administred , the prayers for matter inoffensive and good . and therefore the matter in dispute is about the ministration of our worship , and the manner of its performance ; and i think the things of that kind objected against , refer either to time , or forms , or gesture . to times , such are festivals , or days set apart for divine service ; to forms such are our prayers , and the administration of our sacraments ; to gestures , as standing up at the creed or gospels , and kneeling at the lords supper . but now all these are either natural or moral circumstances of action , and which , as i have shew'd , are inseparable from it . of the former kind are days and gestures ; of the latter are forms of administration , and so upon the reasons before given may be lawfully determined and used . again , these are not forbidden by any law , either expresly , or consequentially , and have nothing that is indecent , disorderly , or unedifying in them ; and which if any should engage his own opinion and experience in , he would be answered in the like kind , and have the opinions and experience of thousands that live in the practise of these , to contradict him . and if there be nothing of this kind apparent , or what can be plainly prov'd , ( as i am apt to believe there cannot ) then the proposition i have laid down needs no further proof . but if at last it must issue in things inexpedient to christians , or an unlawfulness in the imposure ; are either of these fit to be insisted upon , when the peace of one of the best churches in the world is broken by it , a lamentable schism kept up , and our religion brought into imminent hazard by both ? alas how near have we been to ruin , and i wish i had no reason to say , how near are we to it , considering the indefatigable industry , the united endeavours , the matchless policy of those that contrive and desire it ! can we think that we are safe , as long as there is such an abiding reason to make us suspect it , and that our divisions are both fomented , and made use of by them to destroy us ? and if this be our danger , and union as necessary as desirable , shall we yet make the breach wider , or irreparable by an obstinate contention ? god forbid ! o pray for the peace of jerusalem , they shall prosper that love thee : let peace be within thy walls , and prosperity within thy palaces . amen . the end . books printed by fincham gardiner . a continuation and vindication of the defence of dr. stillingfleet's unreasonableness of separation , in answer to mr. baxter , and mr. lob , &c. considerations of present use , considering the danger resulting from the change of our church-government . . a perswasive to communion with the church of england . . a resolution of some cases of conscience , which respect church-communion . . the case of indifferent things , used in the worship of god , proposed and stated by considering these questions , &c. . a discourse about edification . . the resolution of this case of conscience , whether the church of england's symbolizing so far as it doth with the church of rome , makes it unlawful to hold communion with the church of england ? . a letter to anonymus , in answer to his three letters to dr. sherlock about church-communion . . certain cases of conscience resolved , concerning the lawfulness of joyning with forms of prayer in publick worship . in two parts . . the case of mixt communion . whether it be lawful to separate from a church upon the account of promiscuous congregations , and mixt communions ? . an answer to the dissenters objections against the common prayers , and some other parts of divine service prescribed in the liturgy of the church of england . . the case of kneeling at the holy sacrament , stated and resolved , &c. the first part. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a lightf . hor. hebr. in cor. . . b plut. probl. rom. c macrob. saturn . l. . c. . chrysost. and theophyl . in cor. . . tertul. apol. c. . de orat . l. . concil . laod. c. . &c. synod . petricov . conclus . . an. . philo. de sacrif . able , &c. lightf . hor. matth. c. . . a ambros. tom. . l. . de sacrament . c. . b tertul. de orat . c. ▪ . ames . fresh suit , l. . sect. . &c. p. . casaub. exercit . . c. . a buxtorf . exercit. hist. sacr. coenae b ames . ibid ▪ p. . n. xxx . a ames . ibid. l. . c. . p. . a aug. epis. . januar. b basil. de spir. s. c. . c aug. epis. . januar. d ambros. lib. . de sacrament . c. . a aug. epist. . b ambros. l. . de sacrament . c. . object . i. levit. . , &c. answ. i. a esth. . . b king. . , . c isai. . . d act. . . exod. . ● . ver. . ch. . . jer. . . a lev. . . b ch. . . c lev. . . . lev. . . lev. . . chron. . . . ch. . . deut. . . . jer. . . ch. . . ch. . . jer. . , . isai. . . . ch. . , . rom. . , . object . ii. deut. . . matth. . . answer . deut. . , . a deut. . . matth. . . king. . , . matth. . . con. trid. sess. . decr. . object . iii. answer . ames . fresh suit , part . . sect . . command . p. . object . iv. answer . rev. . . cor. . , . cor. . , . , . chrys. in cor. ch. . . cor. . . epist. . epist. . epist. . casulano . cor. . cor. . . &c. rom. . . pet. . . cor. . . cor. . tim. . . rom. . . thes. . . eph. . . . ● cor. . . aug. epist. . cor. . . rom. . . aug. epist. . epist. . & . object . gal . ● . answer . cor. . . cor. . . a free discourse against customary swearing ; and, a dissuasive from cursing by robert boyle ; published by john williams. boyle, robert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a free discourse against customary swearing ; and, a dissuasive from cursing by robert boyle ; published by john williams. boyle, robert, - . williams, john, ?- . p. in various pagings. printed by r.r. for thomas cockerill senr and junr, london : . "a dissuasive from cursing" ( p. at end) probably not by boyle. cf. brit. mus. cat. and fulton, j.f. a bibliography of the honourable robert boyle, p. . reproduction of original in the cambridge university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng swearing. blessing and cursing. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a free discourse against customary swearing . and a dissuasive from cursing . by the late honourable robert boyle . published by john williams , d. d. london : printed by r. r. for thomas cockerill , sen r and jun r , at the three legs in the poultrey , over-against stocks-market . mdcxcv . portrait of robert boyle imprimatur . april . . guil. lancaster . to the right honourable richard earl of burlington and cork , lord high treasurer of ireland . and the honourable sir henry ashhurst , baronet ; executors to the honourable robert boyle , esquire . it has been an injury too often done to the memory of persons eminent for knowledge , learning , and virtue , to have after their death such works obtruded upon the world for theirs , as have been deservedly suspected ; or if theirs , yet were never intended by them in that squalid , broken , and imperfect condition , to have been published . but as for this tract you were pleased to put into my hands to peruse , it is not only certain that it was wrote by the honourable person whose name it bears ; but also that it was designed by him for the press ; as some passages in it do apparently shew . and if this noble and learned author thought it seasonable for those times of uncontroul'd liberty and confusion in which it was wrote , it is as seasonable , if not more , at the present ; when that vice against which it is directed , has of late years so far prevail'd , to the great dishonour of our nation , as well as our religion , that the patriots of our countrey assembled in parliament , have been thereby justly provok'd to prepare that late bill ( which since has pass'd the royal assent ) for the better and more effectual punishment and suppression of it . a design becoming so august an assembly ; and in the prosecution of which your honours must be esteemed to have done considerable service , especially by the publication of this treatise , which has been so happily recovered , and by a singular providence reserved , as it were , for such a special season and service . i am , most honoured , your most humble and faithful servant , john williams . the publisher to the reader . these two tracts against customary swearing and cursing , lately met with amongst the papers of a person of quality , and an intimate acquaintance of the honourable mr. robert boyle , transcribed by his own hand ; were found upon perusal , perfect and fitted for the press ; except the close of a dedicatory epistle to his noble sister , the countess of kildare , which ( as far as appears by the copy ) he had but just begun . the year inserted on the title page , as well as a passage or two in the former of these , shews that it was penned toward the latter end of the late vnhappy times , when he was about twenty years old ; by which time ( if i am not mistaken ) this was the third treatise he had prepared for the publick ; the other two being that of seraphick love , afterwards printed , and an essay of mistaken modesty , referred to in this . i cannot say ( though there is a sensible conformity between the style of these and others of his books ) but that this honourable author , if he had been to write ▪ upon this argument in his riper years , might have given it a finer turn ; and added , out of his vast store of learning and thought , much to the weight and force of it . but there is in the management of it , such a strain of modesty and unaffected piety , such an affectionate zeal for the honour of almighty god , and such a passionate concernment for the well-doing and happiness of those of his acquaintance , for whose use this seems more especially designed ; and in fine , so much truth , reason , and observation ( as the pleas and excuses here undertaken and answered shew ) that must above all recommend it to such as have his name in remembrance and veneration . a name , methinks , better than that of sons and of daughters , than that of blood and descent ; and that should provoke those of eminent extraction and station , to an imitation of so worthy and glorious an example . what happy instruments might they then be of good to mankind , by their wise conduct and their exemplary vertues ! what a restraint would this lay , above that of laws , on their dependants and inferiors ! for how would such dare to offend , that are sure to find no countenance or protection ? and what protection or countenance could they expect from their superiors , whose lives would be a continual reproof , and where they could find no more a president , than they do a law to encourage them in their wicked oaths and blasphemies . to bring these vices into disparagement , and to represent the folly , as well as the sin of them to the better-bred part of mankind , was the generous and pious design of this learned author ; and of those honourable persons , that from their relation to him by blood or friendship , have been concerned in the publication . toward the utter extermination of which amongst us , there seems to be , as human means , nothing more necessary than the vigilance of our magistrates , who are now as well and fully empowered , as obliged by the law to see to the punishment of it ; and for the due execution of which , they will most certainly have the good wishes , assistance , and prayers of all good men ; and which is more than all , the blessing and rewards of heaven . i have only this to add , that the second tract , or letter , seems to proceed from the same hand with the first , being agreeable to it in the stile as well as the design of it ; and so the naming mr. boyle in it , is but a decent cover for the concealment of himself . a discourse against customary swearing . though i doubt not but that it is much more easy to make most swearers proselytes than converts , and a task of less difficulty to convince their judgments , than to reform their practice ; yet that they may not have any colour to father upon ignorance what is usually the child of some much guiltier parent , it will be ( possibly ) no less useful than necessary , briefly to direct them to those texts of scripture , where all those that acknowledge god's word , may find the condemnation of that vice. first then , the third commandment flatly forbids unnecessary oaths , in terms that are ratified by these words of our redeemer , in st. matthew's gospel ; ye have heard what hath been said by them of old time , thou shalt not forswear thy self , but shalt perform unto the lord thy oaths : but i say unto you , swear not at all ; neither by heaven , for it is god's throne , nor by the earth , &c. and a little under , but let your communication be yea , yea ; nay , nay ; for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil . the sum of which prohibition is thus repeated by st. james , towards the close of his catholick epistle ; but above all things , my brethren , swear not , neither by heaven , neither by the earth , neither by any other oath , but let your yea be yea , and your nay nay , lest you fall into condemnation . and suitable to these clear passages of both testaments , the wiseman characters a sinner by him that sweareth ; and paraphraseth a righteous man by him that feareth an oath . so in hosea , swearing has the van of the most crying and provoking sins , in that same dismal passage ; by swearing , and lying , and killing , and stealing , and committing adultery , they break out , and blood toucheth blood : therefore shall the land mourn , and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish , with the beasts of the field , and with the fowls of heaven ; yea , the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away . and in another prophet we find this threat recorded ; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off . which passages might easily be reinforced with others of the same nature , if i did not think these that are already alledged , abundantly sufficient ; where we pay not our faith to the number of the texts , but to the authority of the inditer . but alas ! how much more easy is it to make men condemn their sins , than to persuade them to forsake them ? certainly our understandings are ( usually ) much honester than our wills ; it being far easier to reconcile mens judgments to the truth , than their practice to their judgment . customary and unnecessary swearing ( for that 's the sole enemy i undertake ) is so confessedly unlawful , that they are ashamed to defend it , that blush not to practice it ; and even they renounce it in their opinions , that most cherish it in their discourse . but methinks this knowledge of the ill they act , should make them apprehend that menace of our saviour , which he threatens , he that knoweth his master's will , and doth it not , shall be beaten with many stripes : for stumbles are more pardonable by night than by day ; and the knowledge of what we do , whilst it lends us direction , robs us of excuse ; and if it do not impede , it aggravates our faults ; since he that does what he condemns , condemns what he does . upon which score our blessed saviour said , that tyre and sidon should feel a milder torment at the day of judgment , than those ungrateful towns chorazin and bethsaida , where the light of his doctrine had shone so clearly , and the miracles of his life had been so familiar . and accordingly , we may observe , that the devils that had no tempter to their fall , have found no pardon for it ; but having sinn'd against so clear a light , are hopelesly reserv'd in chains of utter darkness , to endure hideous torments unto all eternity . sect . i. but that we may leave our swearer as little pretence as reason for his obstinacy , let us singly and orderly examine his allegations , and tear off those fig-leaves of evasions and excuses the devil teaches him to sow together , to hide his own deformity from himself . plea i. amongst these , the first allegation we are to remove , is this , that swearing is indeed a sin , but that ( as lot said of zoar ) it is but a little one , for were it of the blacker dye , in what a sad condition were mankind , since the number of swearers is not inferior to that of men. answer . but certainly he that seriously considers whom the least sin offends , and what it merits ; how infinite a justice , majesty , and goodness , it provokes , and how intolerable and immortal a punishment is due unto it , will easily concede , that to believe any sin otherwise than comparatively little , is in it self an error absolutely great ; for the most dwarfish are to be called small , but in the sense that the astronomers call the earth a point ; for so indeed it is , compar'd to the firmament ; but in it self considered , 't is so vast , that the spots and shreds of it are both the stage and the subjects of the ambition of conquerors , and the jars of monarchs . and truly , since the least ( unpardon'd ) sin is sufficient to damn us , methinks we should as little slight petty faults , because there are fouler crimes , as we do pistols now there are cannons used . but granting this assertion to be true in the general , it will forfeit that attribute in this application ; for this sin is one of those that are expresly and by name forbidden in the ten commandments ; where it is not only listed among , but has the precedency of murther , theft , and of adultery ; being the sole commandment ( save one ) that has a threat annexed to the law ; which in this passage is , for the lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain . in which last words , the great lawgiver foreseeing men would be very remiss in the prosecution of a fault , in which their want of zealous piety makes them not to be concern'd , declares that he himself will take the vindication of his honour into his own hands , and inflict himself the punishment of a crime , that fears it but from him. and then if those trespasses be not severely dealt with , that are alone punishable by the supreme magistrate , let all consider what a fearful thing it is to fall into the hands of the living god. which brings into my mind a pretty extravagancy that is reported of the turkish laws ; which punish blasphemy ( as they call it ) against mahomet with inevitable death , but enact no penalty upon the like dishonour offer'd to god. because mahomet ( say they ) is not in a condition to vindicate himself ; but god is ever able to revenge his own affronts , and therefore they resign that care to him. who indeed many times has ( in such cases ) done it so soundly , and so much to the purpose , that those sawcy wretches have had cause to think it as poor a privilege to have their oaths out of the cognizance of the laws of men , as thieving beggars do to be exempted from the danger of the beadle and the stocks , because their crimes are reserved for the gallows . but to resume our proofs of the sinfulness of swearing : admit the guilt of single oaths were no less venial than is pretended ; yet certainly , when in most swearers the frequency of swearing is so great , that one day may be guilty of more than a thousand oaths ; ( these sins not growing single , as apples or cherries , but like grapes by clusters ; the swearer's devil having a title to the name of the gadarene spirit , that , answering our saviour , called himself legion ) their multitude cannot but render them considerable : and he that remembers that a thousand holes may as well sink a ship , as some great leaks , will conclude oaths to be extremely dangerous , at least for their number , tho they were not so for their heinousness . nor are they only ruinous to the persons that use them , but have a destructive influence upon that state that suffers them . for whether or no what the prophet related once of judah , because of swearing , the land mourneth , be not a fulfilled prophecy of england , i wish it were rather charity than partiality to doubt . for tho the multitude and variety of our sins be so great , that 't is a puzzling task to determine to what particular crimes our calamities are due , yet certainly our oaths are too considerable an accession to our sins , not to infuse a suitable proportion of gall and wormwood into that bitter cup ( of affliction ) these gasping kingdoms drink so deeply of ; and whatsoever feather'd , i am confident our oaths have strangely pointed those fatal arrows that destroy these nations . as for the supposal this mistake is built on ( the involvedness of all men in the guilt of swearing ) it is as weak as 't is uncharitable ; for ( besides that to allow no body an innocence from swearing , is as much a slander to mankind in its present condition , as it would be its crime if the accusation were true ) our saviour gives us the world's example rather for a caution , than for imitation : where he tells us , that the way to hell is a road , and throng'd with numerous travellers ; but heaven's path is narrow , and the gate that inlets to those mansions of bliss , as unfrequented as 't is strait . even mahomet himself ( in his discourse with the jew adia ) having at the last day divided mankind into threescore troops , makes but three of them believers , and all the rest reprobates . but certainly he whose command this is , thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil , will hardly take the practice of that multitude for a just dispensation of the law of that god , who having commanded us to live by good precepts , will scarce accept it for an excuse , that we have err'd by bad examples . 't would be a strange absurdity in physick , because a pestilence is more dispers'd and epidemical , to think it therefore the less dangerous ; or to believe that the multitude of stinking carkasses can lessen the noisomness of the stench . but as in pious duties the general concurrence contributes to the acceptation ; so in sins , the like consent but hastens on revenge : it being with the guilty kingdoms as with leaking boats , where the number of the passengers but makes them sink more nimbly . and accordingly we read , that the universality of the sodomites beastliness was so far from justifying each single sinner , that they were all consum'd with fire from heaven , for the sole want of ten righteous persons . 't is for them only that think it no misery to burn in hell with others , to fancy it no sin to swear with company : but for the rest of men , let them take this from me , that sins whose seeming pettiness makes them less formidable , do oftentimes prove the most dangerous ; and he that dares esteem any sin small , may soon be brought to think none great . plea ii. well , but objects the swearer , i do not swear so often , and my conscience by seldom accusing me of that sin , assures me that i do but unfrequently commit it . answ . but sure in vice , whose essence consists in a repugnance to mediocrity , every little is too much ; and he that swears fewest oaths , swears yet too many by the whole number that he swears . one oath is too many by one , when one is enough to damn . and who would swallow poyson , because obliged seldom to repeat his draught ? to pass over this , that the same considerations that contract the number of your oaths , do aggravate their guilt , by arguing both a clearer knowledge of the ill you act , and a more bridling power to restrain it . but alas ! how seldom does the silence of his conscience make for the swearer ? we know that insensibility of pain may as well proceed from the deadness and stupifi'dness of the part , as from a perfect and unmolested health . in fighting , that is held a heavier blow , that ( stunning ) takes away the sense of pain , than that which pains the sense . beware your tranquility resemble you not to the toad , that feels not poyson , because he is all poyson ; and resents no alteration from it , because 't is natural to him . there are legions of swearers , in whose mouths custom swears undiscernedly ; and who being tax'd with it , ( and believe what they speak too ) swear that they are no swearers , and thus commit the fault they would wipe off the imputation of . but wise physicians hold it a fatal symptom when excrements are voided without the patient's knowledge ; and 't is a sign that the thief has haunted long , when the mastiff forbears to bark at him . in such cases , conscience , like oppress'd subjects under an arm'd tyrant , forbears expostulations , not out of want of the causes of complaint , but out of use of sufferings . but certainly this lethargy of security is much more dangerous than the feaver of a restless conscience ; since in the one , the smart soon drives us to the search of physick , but the other is so far from addressing us to remedies , that it never lets us know we need them . in such still consciences , as in the sea , the smoothest seas , the smoothest calms fore-run the rudest . tempests : for conscience , when long forc'd to play the mute , turns to a scold at last ; being like o'erladen muskets , which whilst no fire comes near them , can scarce be known from them that are not charg'd ; but at the least spark ( of serious terror ) that falls into the touch-hole , they will be sure to fly about our ears . plea iii. true ; but ( may you answer ) there are others that swear as much as i , and oftner ; why then are not they more reprehended for more frequent faults ? answ . to this i may reply in the terms of the apostle , am i therefore your enemy because i tell you the truth ? and add out of solomon , that reproofs of instruction are the way of life . that poverty and shame shall be to the man that refuseth instruction , but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured . and lastly , that he that being often reproved , hardneth his neck , shall suddenly be destroyed , and that without remedy , i know there are many sauls , whose choler flames against those davids that endeavour their dispossession , tho they attempt the cure even with musick , i mean , the mildest and the gentlest way . but i must beg my swearer to consider , that 't is an inspired writer that assures me , there is a generation that are pure in their own eyes , and yet is not washed from their filthiness . your excuse is just as if in an hospital a desperate patient should say to his physician , why i can need no physick , for there are others here as sick , and many more diseased than i. to complain of being reprehended for vice , is to complain that one is car'd for ; like the favourite child , that cries for having the knife taken away from him , when it is not from others , for whom we care not whether they cut themselves or no : which is as if our eyes had right to quarrel with us , for not enduring that dust there , we suffer in our shoes . certainly as we deserve not praise for other mens vertues , so can we not decline censure by the allegation of their faults . take heed there be not places hot enough in hell , tho others fry in more tormenting flames ; and remember , that as it is not health to be not altogether as sick as gasping people , so it is but a very sorry goodness not to be as bad as the worst . how strangely are our affections misplac'd ! in transitory goods , which he rates justliest that prizes least , we think we never have enough , if any body else has more ; but in the goods of the mind , which cannot be overvalued , we think our selves sufficiently stor'd , if others enjoy less . we are discontented at another's wealth , and proud of his vices ; and whereas his greater poverty should exalt our gratitude , and his greater piety create our emulation , his riches make us envious , and his sinfulness secure . plea iv. well , ( may you reply ) but i scorn to swear falsly ; and what know to be true , why may i not safely swear ? answ . this weak objection satisfies many swearers , ( so easily men believe what they desire ) but with as little reason as they swear with need : for that not false alone , but rash and unnecessary oaths are forbidden , appears evidently by the expression made use of in the third commandment ; where perjury is not alone condemn'd , but it is flatly written , thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god in vain . which if needless and customary swearing do not , 't will be a strange riddle to me what the commandment means to prohibit . but that this is the genuine sense and design of those words , is clear'd by these express ones of our saviour , ( cited before in st. matthew's gospel ) ye have heard that it hath been said of old time , thou shalt not forswear thy self , but shalt perform unto the lord thine oaths . but i say unto you , swear not at all , neither by heaven , for it is god's throne , nor by the earth , &c. and to this sense the annex'd affirmative precept expounds the negative law ; the word communication in the former shewing the interdict to be chiefly meant of oaths employ'd in common discourse and conversation . nay , god himself seems manifestly to determine all the controversy , by that clear distinction express'd in a passage of leviticus , whose words run thus , and ye shall not swear by my name falsly ; neither shalt thou prophane the name of thy god : i am the lord. and certainly if we must answer at the last day , for every idle word , how much more will that account be exacted of us for every idle oath ? the jews at this day , ( as i learn'd whilst i lately convers'd with them at amsterdam ) have so profound a reverence for that great name of jehovah ( commonly called nomen tetragrammaton , and ineffable , so frequently recorded in the scriptures ) that they hold it unlawful for mortal lips so much as to pronounce it : but tho i esteem this fancy suitable enough to the rest of the extravagancies of their modern tenents , yet certainly their superstition will condemn our irreverence . i remember an expositor observes upon the th . of deuteronomy , and the th . verse , that the word there which signifies swear , is put in the hebrew in the passive sense , to imply that our swearing ought to be a kind of necessitated act . and a father tells us of one clinias a pythagorean , who being fin'd in a great sum of money which he might have escaped with an oath , chose rather to pay the penalty impos'd , than not to pay unto god the reverence that he thought due unto his name . besides , he that makes no conscience of swearing vainly , will soon make but little of swearing falsly : for he that in a lower degree so voluntarily breaks god's commandment for nothing , may soon be drawn to break it in a little higher degree for his profit . and tho many of our gallants ( doubtless in a pure complement to the devil ) are pleased to condemn the breach of this commandment , only when the sinner wants the excuse of an advantage by it ; yet certainly he that uses to toss god's sacred name in his mouth without any reverence , and employs it about every trifle , will easily be tempted not to care much what he does with it , nor to what use he puts it . and therefore holy david makes it a symptom of hatred against god , when in a psalm he says , thine enemies take thy name in vain . these considerations may clearly teach us what to think of those usual forms of speech , such as are , god forgive me , god help you ; and the like of those customary exclamations , such as are , o god! o jesus ! and those others that are usually employ'd to proclaim our wonders , or supply the want of a complement , with an excess of irreverence : for tho these unregarded trespasses be in most persons faults venial enough , as the effects rather of ignorance and heedlesness , than of design ; yet are they fashions of speaking , which besides that they are always needless , and often scandalous , do but inure our mouths to a very sawcy slighting of that awful name , which eternally to praise , shall be in heaven both our employment and our happiness . plea v. nor will it avail the oathmonger to reply , but i do not take god's name in vain ; for i swear not by god , or by christ , or other oaths of the like nature , but only by the creatures , as by this light , by this bread , by heaven , and the like ; and the creatures name i hope it is no sin to take in vain . answ . for sure if we will allow our saviour to be the best interpreter of his father's commandments , he will teach us a very differing lesson , in those ( already twice alledged ) words of st. matthew ; for doubtless he that forbids to swear by heaven , the noblest , or by earth , the meanest ingredients of this vast fabrick of the world , intended that prohibition should reach all other creatures ; which is as clear as light , in the ensuing words of the th . verse of the same chapter ; where christ's express injunction is , but let your communication be yea , yea ; nay , nay ; for whatsoever is more than these , cometh of evil . besides , either by the thing you swear by , you mean god , or no ; if the former , your guilt is evident in the breach of god's commandment ; and if the latter , remember what the spirit says in jeremy , how shall i pardon thee for this ? thy children have forsaken me , and sworn by them that are no gods . and in effect , 't is questionable in divinity , whether be the greater sin , to swear falsly by the creator , or with truth by the creatures ; for as the former is an act of high impiety , so is the latter of idolatry : because swearing by any thing being a part of divine worship , ( as the passages the margin leads to , will evidence ) implies in us an acknowledgment of some divinity in the thing we swear by ; which without omniscience , is uncapable to discern the inward truth or falshood of our oaths ; and without omnipotence , unable to reward the one , or punish the other . a consideration so prevalent with many of the primitive martyrs , that they chose rather to expire in torments , than swear by the genius of the emperor . nor is an oath only an act or species of divine worship , isa . . . and . . but by a synechdoche is taken for the whole worship that men pay their maker , in the d . psalm , and the last , and in jer. . . plea vi. ally'd to this plea , is theirs that will not flatly swear by god , but by certain fictitious terms and abbreviatures , as by dod , &c. and by the like disguizing of them believe to justify their oaths ; as if they cared not , so ( like saul to the witch of endor ) they may go mask'd to satan . ans . to these i shall only answer with the apostle , be not deceived , god is not mocked ; since ( as the same apostle elsewhere says ) he taketh the wise in their own craftiness . well may this childish evasion cheat our own souls , but never him , who judgeth as well as he discerns intents ; and regards not so much the precise signification of your words , as what they are meant and understood for ; which ( in such cases ) is usually an oath , since the same credit is both given and expected upon these mongrel oaths , that is paid to those they mean , but would not seem . these people bring into my mind the bloody persecutors of our first christians , who cloathed them in the skins of savage beasts , that it might seem no crime to worry them ; for so these hypocrites disguise god's name , to give themselves the license to dishonour it . 't is a very pretty slight of these gentlemen , to cozen the devil to their own advantage , and to find out by-ways to damnation , and descend to hell by a pair of back-stairs ; and methinks argues a cunning much about the size of his , that pleaded he was innocent of falsifying the king's coin , because he had displac'd some letters in the motto . but to hell , as to towns , these singular by-paths ( tho less frequented ) may lead directlier than the broad high-ways : and to these gentlemen , and those that rely upon the last answer'd objection , i shall at present only recommend the serious pondering of that passage of the wise-man in the proverbs : all the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes , but the lord weigheth the spirits . plea vii . it is a usual excuse of some sort of swearers , that they swear only some peculiar oath , and that one kind of oath cannot amount to such a crime as the more scrupulous pretend . answ . an apology equally excusing with the thief 's that should alledg , that he commits all his robberies upon the same horse ; and the drunkard , that should offer to justify his beastliness , by affirming , that he never foxes himself , but with one sort of wine , or in such a peculiar unalter'd bowl . remember what an apostle somewhere says of sinning , whosoever shall keep the whole law , and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all . just as a man that wounds a buck in the vitals , is truly and properly said to have kill'd the deer , altho the shaft reach'd but the head or heart , leaving the legs and other parts untouch'd . thus in a globe , tho there be numerous parts , yet he is guilty of breaking the whole globe , that breaks it but within the arctick circle , tho near the equator it have escap'd that violence ; for wheresoe'er you break it , you break the globe ; its essence consisting in the entireness that is ruined by the fraction of any part . sin , because natural to us , is so readily learnt by us , that as in shooting , by practising to hit wrens and silly sparrows , we learn the art of killing feldifares , thrushes , and the other sort of birds we never aimed at ; so by committing some small sin , we learn , tho insensibly ( and perhaps undesignedly ) to commit other and grosser kinds of sins . one act may make us do dispositively , what moses is recorded to have done literally ( at the foot of mount sinai ) break all the ten commandments at once ; for single disobediences , if presumptuous , may have the power to exile that fear of god , whose expulsion comprises in it the whole trade of sin , which ( conscience once despised ) is known without being learnt . if a reverence to the commandment were that which did place limits to the variety of your oaths , it would not permit you the use of any one , but lay an equal restraint in relation to them all ; since the sinfulness of swearing does consist , not in the diversity of our oaths , but in their forbiddenness . but this excuse it self is often wanting to many of our gallants , who not content with the received forms of dishonouring their maker's name , do as much affect novelty in their oaths , as in the fashion ; and if they have a gift of singularity in swearing , are as proud of it , as of their mistress's favour : such people are as nice as impious in their oaths , they will never use any till it be stale and threadbare , but ( ever like their cloaths ) leave them off before they have been worn long enough to grow old . but whilst they are thus industrious in the discovery of new ways of provoking their creator , 't is much to be feared , that they do but ( if i may so speak ) find out for themselves a northwest passage to damnation . plea viii . but , continues the swearer , if i swear not , i shall not be believed . answ . but ( 't is replied again ) belief is better wanted , than purchased at so dear a rate as sin ; since he that parts with heaven , makes over a bad bargain , tho the whole world were the accepted price . but alas ! unless men will construe their disobediences for arguments of your obsequiousness , how unlikely is it , that ( by believing you speak truth , because you use to swear you do not lye ) they should take your readiness to transgress one of god's commands , for a proof that you dare not break another . how ridiculous would men esteem that merchant , that should be confident to gain credit amongst lenders , by giving bond for every trivial sum , for which others are trusted upon their bare word ? for in oaths ( as in most other things ) too constant a frequency depreciates that authority which their rareness as well as nature gives them : that not being held a sufficient security for the belief of a doubted or important truth , that is lavish'd to authorise every trivial and impertinent assertion ; nor thought a convincing attestation of a questioned truth , that flows rather from a custom of sinning , than design of confirming . no , no ; he needs not many oaths , that uses few ; for to be known to make a conscience of an oath , will gain your words more credit than the swearing of a thousand ; it being a visible and remarkable judgment of the offended . deity upon oaths , that their number discredits that truth it self would persuade . since then 't is your habitude of swearing needlesly , that alone engages you to a necessity ( as you call it ) of swearing to be believed , let your discontinuance remove that obligation custom only has contracted ; and believe me , that the most persuading asseveration of all , is so to live as not to need to swear . that sociableness which you alledge to extenuate your fault , but aggravates the heinousness of the crime ; by confessing customary oaths to be like jealous tyrants , whom we cannot entertain , without giving admittance to their retinue and their guard , since in this vice you acknowledge the act an engagement to a repetition ; and that oaths which are the ultimate and highest confirmations of truth in their nature , must yet ( by this fine policy ) themselves derive an authority from their multitude ; which is very unnecessary where the assertor is believed , and usually does but create distrusts where the veracity is not credited . plea ix . of kin to this is their apology who plead , that if they do not swear , their words shall neither be fear'd nor obey'd by their very servants ; mens ears being of late so accustomed unto oaths , that they are necessary to make them think we are in earnest . this is the usual objection of the french , amongst whom this vice is grown so epidemical ( as of blackness amongst the ethiopians ) its commonness has removed all the deformities they would otherwise find in it . answ . but sure there are ways enough to make your servants obey your commands , without your breaking god's . gravity and severity , not using them to hear you swear , are courses likelier far than oaths to reach that end : which if they yet should fail of , they would turn this fancied inconvenience into an advantage of necessitating you to the election of religious servants . certainly , since the sole universality of vice has drawn upon us this suppos'd necessity , a general and unanimous desertion of it must needs be the properest expedient for its removal . and , believe me , 't is but an extravagant way of teaching our inferiors to pay us their duties , to teach them to disobey the commands of their superiors by our own example , and to lead them the way to despise the injunctions of the most ador'd powers , to whom we confess to owe an exquisite obedience , upon the highest considerations . but admitting ( as the dispersedness of this vice too often forces us ) the supposal of this plea to be true , yet will the inference prove consequent ? for by the same reason the thief might justify the unreclaimedness in his robberies , by alledging if he forsake that trade , his purse must soon grow empty : or the buona roba excuse her prostitutions , by saying , that unless she continue her former profession of wantonness , she shall no more be presented with new gowns , and linnen richly lac'd , nor be able any longer to maintain her wonted riots ; her conversion ( by forbidding her to be the cherisher of her gallants loose excesses ) depriving her of the only fewel of her bravery . upon how few could we with justice press religious duties , if such petty inconveniences attending their performance , were a warrantable dispensation or disengagement from it ? surely he that requires that we should pull out our right eyes , and cut off our right hands , if they oppose our entrance in at the streight gate , will scarce give them admittance , that will not purchase it by the parting with such trivial conveniences . it is much less unreasonable that you should be neither believed nor obeyed with readiness , than that god should either not be believed when he speaks , or not obeyed when he commands . for take this for a truth , to which oracles are fables , that never any man commits a sin to shun an inconvenience , but one way or other , soon or late , he plunges himself by that act into a far worse inconveniency , than that he would decline . plea x. others there are that use to represent , that they swear not but when they are angry ; and then ( for all our clamours and exaggerations ) they mean no harm at all . a. but would you take it for a justification of your wife's adulteries , if she should tell you , that she never prostitutes her self , but when her fits of lust tempt her to give that satisfaction to her appetite ? besides , this is but to excuse one fault with another ; and with no greater justice , than his that should defend a bastard's crimes , by alledging that his mother was a whore ; since the nature as well as the duty of virtue being the moderation of our passions , it is evident that their excesses degenerate into sins ; and therefore how that can be a good excuse that needs one , and how that anger which in it self is sinful , can impart an innocence to productions in their own nature culpable , let those that are concerned determine . for my part , when i consider the apostle's command , be ye angry , and sin not ; i cannot but apprehend , that when our passions swell into excess , they are indeed contaminated by the guiltiness of their productions , but confer not upon them a meritoriousness which themselves want . but why , i pray , in every passionate mood , must you be transported to commit sins that are as unprofitable as impious ; and to deserve your crosses , by a sawcy provocation of your god , whom you then endeavour to make your enemy , when you most need his favour to protect you from disquiets ? why must your tongue fly in your maker's face , and vilify his sacred name , because your dice turn up size-ace rather than quatre-trey ? for either he is the guider of those seeming chances , or meddles not with their disposal : in , this last case you are palpably injurious , to make god the object of your choler , when he is not the cause of it ; and in the former case your folly is not inferior , instead of propitiating , to incense that deity , who is the sole disposer of those fortunes we either wish or fear . but take heed he give you not too much pretence to be so , by displeasing you , ( as discreet mothers whip their froward children that cry without cause ) and punish in his anger these rash and culpable expressions of yours . as for the other branch of the excuse , i mean the harmlessness of your intent ; to that i must reply , that our actions may as well offend as our intents , if they be subsequent to our knowledge of god's aversion to what we do . and usually men take it for a sufficient offence , to do what we are sure will disoblige them , tho with a differing design . nor do we think our selves less injured by robbers when they strip us , because they offer us that violence , not with intent to anger us , but only to make a booty of our purses . 't is a received maxim in divinity which moralists prop with their full concurrence , that no goodness ( much less bare innocence ) of the intent can justify a formal sinful evil . if then the committing of this sin against the knowledge of the ill you act , be not crime enough to condemn you , you must not be deny'd my absolution . but withal , i must acquit most sinners in the world upon the self-same score ; and believe the threatned flames of hell as uninhabited as insupportable ; since certainly such sinners ( if any such there be ) must be prodigious no less for their unequal'd rarity , than devilish perverseness , that are such monsters as to offend their maker , merely to offend him . for in philosophy our masters teach us , that ill under that notion cannot be the object of our choice ; ( that being ever a real , or at least a seeming good ) ; and tho in our misguided elections we oftentimes embrace it , yet that is ever under a contrary notion , and rather by mistake than by design . but oh ! how industrious are sinners to deceive themselves ; and how strangely does the devil fascinate and blind deluded mortals , when ( by such silly and impertinent excuses ) he persuades them rather to expose their judgments to a certain discredit , than let their souls be ransom'd from an ignoble slavery , into a glorious freedom ; and rather suffer their abilities to be believed weak , than permit their lives to be made virtuous . certainly , such people would make me as much astonish'd as themselves are faulty , if i did not consider this gallant property , of rather making bad apologies to defend their sins , than good resolutions to forsake them , as intail'd upon them by a kind of traduction from our first parents , who hoped with fig-leave aprons , and the faint shade of trees , to hide both their nakedness and their disobedience from the omniscient eye of god himself . i will not waste ink upon their successless and impudent defence , that make their drunkenness an apology for their swearing , and make that an excuse for their sin , which is it self a sin above excuse ; but with as little justice , as the keeper of the lions in the tower could excuse any particular tragedy they had acted , by alledging that he had voluntarily let them loose . but since the tempers that most dispose men to a flux of oaths , are drunkenness and choler , give me leave by the by , to take notice of the chief midwives that are usually assistant to the birth of oaths ; and to observe , that as the thunder falls not , but when heaven is over-cast , so we are pronest to swear , when the beastliness of our passions hath either blinded or deposed our reason . plea xi . 't is confest , you may alledge , that swearing is a most heinous sin , but i do never swear my self , but only to repeat those oaths of another ( which are therefore his sins not mine ) whose omission would spoil the jest . answ . this brings into my mind the known story of that merry gentleman , who to shew the sullen justice how the mastiff he had kill'd , had first assaulted him and overthrown him , runs full butt at the formal sir's breast , and sends both him and his chair to salute the ground : for when a sin cannot be imitated , without being committed , then that you but repeat it only , is as sorry an excuse , as his must be , who to illustrate the relation of a murder , should pistol the first man he meets withal . besides , when did transgression by president turn innocence ? and what was unlawful in the act , become legitimate in the repetition ? it is acknowledged , that the relating of another's oaths may sometimes be not only lawful but necessary ; but then it must be either to discover or convert the swearer ; or else when the oath is some material circumstance of a serious narrative . but here the very end adds guiltiness to the action , it being only to make another's vice applauded , and render his sin both infectious and immortal . but how will you justify this introducing of god's name only ( like a fool in a play ) to make the company laugh , and to bring it into contempt , from the disobedience to the prohibition of taking god's name in vain ? unless ( perhaps ) the consequents of your sin teach you a construction that may resolve this difficulty ; and the judgments your swearing will provoke , shew you in what sense you have taken your maker's name in vain . remember how sad a reckoning was presented to belshazzar by the hand-writing upon the wall , for having turn'd the vessels of the temple into implements and furtherers of mirth , at his sumptuous entertainment ; and consider betimes , that god may possibly less resent the making merry in his holy cups , than the making merry with his most holy name . to this may well be added , that in this sinning at the second hand , the copied sin is held more criminal in the transcript than in the original ; for besides that this swearer by imitation acknowledges himself so delighted with the other's sin , that he becomes the devil's mountebank ( or his zany ) to have it admired by all that hear him ( and we know that approbation is but an after-consent ) ; besides this , i say , the leading swearer has the excuse of an immediate applause ; whereas the apish repeater wrongs and discredits his own piety , only to celebrate and proclaim another's wit ; if that be not too partially term'd wit , that appears such only to our corruptions : since when the oath must make the jest , 't is only the devil in us that is pleas'd with it . handsome replies are good without oaths , and dull ones will not be made good by them : to the one they are needless , to the other they are useless ; that being justly enough appliable to oaths in apothegms , which is usually believ'd in painting of faces , that beauties need it not , and deformed women look but ridiculously for it . fools ( says the wise-man ) make a mock of sin ; they can take pleasure to hear him affronted , in whose communion consists happiness ; and make that the fewel of their jollity , that should be the object of their detestation . for my part i do not like this doing in jest , what a man may be damn'd for in earnest ; and i much wonder that we frail mortals , whose faults are more numerous than the very minutes we have liv'd , should think our own sins too few to condemn us , without adopting those of others too ! and to our crimes ( too numerous already ) adding these sins of supererogation ! but to resume our theme . plea xii . there remains yet a prejudice to remove , which though very rarely the pretence of swearers , is very often a prevalent motive to swearing , and is an evil by so much the more obstructive to these sinners reclaiming , by how much the more silently it opposes it . this is a foolish fancy that many swearers cherish , that their oaths make them look'd upon with a kind of admiration , as gentleman-like sins ; and witness in them so bold and daring a courage , that it extends to a fearlessness of god himself . answ . but though their blushing to own so childish a pretence , be a sufficient disproval of it ; yet since , as in war , so in disputes , we consider not so much the personal strength of the adversary we attempt , as the rank he holds among those that employ him ; 't will not be amiss to remove an obstacle , made considerable by being so great a vice's motive , and so great a motive to that vice : though of this sort of swearers ( as of some savages that lurk in rocks and woods ) it be much more difficult to obtain a battel , than to get a victory ; and to draw them to the field , than to give them a defeat . doubtless these needy gentlemen will never tempt the admiration of wise men upon any other score , than that of the greatness of their folly . they must be thought strangely necessitous of meriting qualities that do so meanly by their bad ones implore and court men's good opinion : and i know not whether be the greater , their impudence to expect it for the recompence of vice , or their profuseness that should squander it away on those who have no juster title to our esteem , than that by which the miserablest of beggars pretend to our charity , the multitude of their imperfections and wants . wise men will make these poor and empty projects , the objects solely of their scorn and laughter ; and only those that want esteem for themselves , will reward you with it ; and for such peoples praises , they will but discommend you : so that that empty applause you are ambitious of , will either be impossible to be purchas'd , or not deserve to be pursued . but what , your oaths will make men take you for a gentleman ! you are deceived , there is too little epicurism and chargeableness in your vice , to be affected to that quality . 't was still so cheap , and now grown so common , that i wonder our grandees , though they desist not for the sins sake , renounce it not , at least , for the company 's . must then vices be arguments of the possession of that dignity , that vertue is the sole true means to purchase ? i 'm sure it should not be so ; but grant it were , will you pretend to nobility , by that alone which is not the property , but the vice of gentlemen ? and entitle your self to that illustrious quality , by that which , in god's eye , makes them unworthy ( if not divests them ) of it ? at that rate your pretensions would parallel his mirth , who boasted a descent from the first caesars , barely upon his being ( like most of them ) almost deformedly hawk nos'd ; deriving his interest in their blood , only from his sympathy with their defects . for my part , i must confess , i am not ambitious of those badges of gentility , that christianity delivers for the symptoms of reprobation : nor do i find men desirous of the gout , though the proverb have appropriated that disease to rich men . but then ( you think ) your courage will be unquestionable : and indeed it may seem that you want not probability to prop up your hopes , since you desperately hazard the incurring of immortal torments , for that , for which no wise man would venture the stretching of his little finger . but since the kindred betwixt vertues is not so remote , that the want of any one should conclude the possession of any other , and your impiety convince us of your courage ; experience teaches us , that no men more fear what they should contemn , than those that contemn most what they should fear . and martyrs have embrac'd those flames with joy , that impious persons durst not so much as think of without horror . that boldness that men personate against their maker ( were it real ) would not be the effect of their resolution , but either of their inconsiderateness , or their unbelief . the wicked flee ( says solomon ) when no man pursueth ; but the righteous are bold as a lyon. and indeed it is no great encouragement to despise this life , to want either hope , or at least confidence of a better . nor will all men so easily conclude , that he that fears not to venture his soul , dares freely venture his body . for since it is not the essential worth of things , but the proprietary's value of them , that their dearness to us is to be measured by : that standard , and most mens actions , will present us the soul and body in a very inverted order of precedency ; the greater part of men living for the body as if they were all body , and slighting their souls as if they had no souls , or had them but to lose . it being but too true of the very greatest of those people , that in themselves as in their stables , the employment of the man is but to serve the beast . and truly he that considers that the neglect of the soul proceeds from the former dotage on the body , will think that a very unlikely consequence , that infers a readiness to hazard the latter , from the carelessness of what becomes of the former . he that shakes off the emboldening fear of god , betrays himself to as numerous apprehensions , as did the weak-ey'd frantick , who to be secur'd from the offensiveness of the sun 's brighter beams , by pulling out his eyes , expos'd himself to all those dangers and those horrors that attend on blindness . plea xiii . but , say some swearers , if i renounce this vice , my repentance will procure me a derision i shall be asham'd of . ans . must then that bashfulness which is both the livery and guard of virtue , oppose our addresses to it ? like ditches when the draw-bridge is cut down ; which tho their use be to secure the fortress from enemies , forbid access to them that once have salley'd , when they are meditating a retreat . but yours is an excuse as receivable as the whores , who pretended bashfulness for their turning honest . i was much taken with an italian gentleman , who spying a friend of his peep out his head from behind the door of a bordello , to see if he might retire undiscover'd ; come forth , come forth , cries he , you need not be ashamed to leave that sluttish place ; but you should have been asham'd to have entred it . have innocence and vice then so chang'd natures , that he that did not blush to commit sin , should blush to forsake it ? and he that hath once fram'd mishapen characters , be ashamed afterwards to write a neater hand ? the blushes that do wait on our repentance , proceed from an implicite confession it imports of some former faultiness ; and so if it have been shameful to have committed a fault , how much more should we be ashamed to continue ; and how little can it discredit us to forsake it ? and truly , he that thinks a fault a just engagement to a relapse , lest his conversion should make him laugh'd at , deserves the censure men would pass upon that fool , who having slipt one foot into a quagmire , should rather proceed to be entirely bogg'd , than by timely stepping back , to confess a mischance that may provoke mens laughter . i had much rather men should laugh at my retracting , than god frown upon my relapses ; and care not so much who smiles at any action that makes my conscience do so , ( not by way of derision , but of applause . ) how contradicting are the desires of mortals ! we are angry if we are not thought virtuous , and yet we are ashamed to appear so , and think it a just ground of quarrel , to be reported the contrary of what we blush to seem ! like ladies , who tho they long to live till they grow old , fret to appear what they desire to be . the sinner that is overmuch concerned in bad mens opinions of good mens actions , does as it were swear allegiance to the devil , and let him bore his ear through with an awl against the door-post , sealing an engagement to perpetual bondage ; for ( as the same men that crucified our saviour , derided him ) as long as the greatest part of men are wicked enough to injure piety , there will be found men impudent enough to mock it . for sinners knowing that in the world's esteem , the extent of a deformity makes it vanish , and that the generality of a crime does so divest it of that name , that every body's sins are thought no body's , are by the cheapness of the expedient easily sway'd to intrust the protection of their reputation rather to common guilt than to a private virtue ; and to seek an innocence rather by adding to the number of the wicked , by their calumnies and derision , than by increasing the number of the godly by their conversion . thus being brib'd by their own interests to discredit such actions as they are tied to , and yet will not practice ; 't is no wonder if by scoffingly condemning what closely condemns them ( tho therein their consciences give their tongues the lye ) they cunningly endeavour to father their faults , not upon their want of piety , but store of wit , and to make their slavery to their passions pass for the superiority of their judgments . but sure he is very unfit to be christ's soldier , that blushes to wear his heavenly leader's colours , and wants the courage to disobey example . he that will take the canaan above by violence , must imitate the conqueror of the canaan below , who profest to the world , if it seem evil unto you to serve the lord , chuse you this day whom you will serve , whether the gods , &c. but as for me and my house , we will serve the lord. our saviour ( who for us endured the cross , despising the shame ) apportions felicity to the being reviled for his sake : and congruously his apostles being causlesly misused by the chief-priests , departed from the presence of the council , rejoicing that they were counted worthy to endure shame for his name . derision for virtue is a grievance as old as job ; who in his time complained , that the just and upright man is laughed to scorn : and 't was even christ's own case ; of whom one of the evangelists in some place records , that they laughed him to scorn . but we may say of the resolute christian what the wise-man says of his maker , that he scorneth the scorners : and surely , since god is said to laugh divers transgressors of his law to scorn , 't is not improbable that he will not fail to laugh them to scorn , that for his glory scorn not to be laugh'd at : especially , since such persons are deeply accessary to their own and piety's disgrace , by a sneakingness which so implies a guilt , that where it proceeds not from a fault , it is one : and themselves highly countenance the discountenancers of the profession of religion , by being asham'd to own it . whereas the loss of the blind world's applause should prove as little dissuasive in the point of conversion , as its acquisition should be a motive . the man that dares be good without a president , looks like the noblest president of good : tho to say truth , as horses are not much priz'd , only for not refusing to set forth unless others lead the way , and for not leaving the track they once are in , because none but resty horses are guilty of the contrary faults ; so is not the gallantry of contemning the opinions and smiles of sinners so meritorious as it is thought ; since none but children ( and they too laugh'd at for it ) will let themselves be frighted from what they love , by others making mouths and faces at it . could singularity in goodness consist with the innocence of others , a gallant spirit would look upon that solitude rather as a delight than a determent ; since 't is not a greater affliction to his charity , than 't is a complement to his generosity , by assuring his devotion of the highest extraction , and restraining the acts of it to the noblest ends . he is the welcomest to paradise who ventures tho alone , and comes unattended thither : i mean , who by so resolute a bravery , as setting forward to heaven , without staying for company , gives so good example , that he arrives there with much difficulty . to all this i must add , that when once 't is noted that the apprehension of being derided for retracting , is the sole obstacle that stands between your reason and so important a change as your conversion , they will justly esteem your parvanimity so great , that you deserve derision for so poorly fearing it ; and so you will fall into that contempt you would decline , by your very shunning of it . if then laughter in this case cannot absolutely on both sides be avoided , sure it 's much better to endure that of fools at your repentance , than that of wise men at your timerousness . did not martyrs , thorough frowns , infamy , and torments , force themselves a passage to the same heaven you aim at , and will you with smiles be frighted from your happiness ? i am asham'd on 't ; and if you be not so of your self , christ will be so of you : for , whosoever ( says our saviour , who before pontius pilate witnessed a good confession ) shall be ashamed of me and of my words , in this adulterous and sinful generation , of him also shall the son of man be ashamed when he cometh in the glory of his father , with the holy angels . and truly , for my part , i had rather be laugh'd at by men on earth , than howl with the devils in hell. digression . [ nor need we be ( as even the best new converts often are ) so scrupulous to own repentance for fear of injuring humility ; since certainly if the latter be a virtue , she cannot enjoin a vice so heinous as ingratitude , by forbidding us even such a retribution as acknowledgment ; for sure 't is the least return we owe to god for his gifts , to confess that we have received them . who would not tax him of unthankfulness , that being loaded with a prince's presents , should disclaim them , for fear of confessing himself to be rich . altho a woman prais'd for her complexion , be bound in modesty to gainsay those praises , yet if the fire have given her a good colour , 't is not thought pride to refrain contradicting , because the effect being natural to the fire , and requiring no excellent predispositions in the object , to refer those ascriptions to their cause , is held to justify the not rejecting them : so tho there be an eye of vanity in the publication of those graces , whose near resemblance ( or affinity ) to virtues merely moral , leaves their extraction dubious ; yet true repentance is a grace so purely foreign , that being acted in us by a principle not native or acquired , but infus'd , to own the having received it , is not to boast our merits , but acknowledge our debts ; the vanity being rather on the other side , who by pretending to disclaim so supernatural a grace , imply that they esteem it to be their own inheritance or purchase . god's goodness being so free , that 't is the only title to its self ; and the motives of his favours being taken from himself and not from us , his blessings argue indeed the bounty of the benefactor , but infer not the merit of the obliged ; since the spirit 's irradiations into our souls ( like the sun 's shining upon shrubs and hemlock ) is due to the diffusiveness of his goodness , not the attractiveness of ours . moral virtues may perhaps be resembled to great mens cloaths , which supply those that see them , with some conjectures of the quality of those that wear them : but inspired graces ( such as repentance is ) are like their liveries , whose gawdiness evinces not the footman's deserts , but his lord's splendidness ; and in mens esteem entitles the lacquey to nothing but a good master . those better qualities blood may convey , or industry acquire , like honours conferr'd by princes , suppose the party deserving ; but heavenly donatives are like alms , which ever presume need ; and where they are more liberally bestow'd , stronglier conclude the greatness of the party's wants than merits . upon such considerations , possibly , as these , the great apostle ( after a recital of his first unworthiness ) scruples not to write of himself in such bold erms as these ; by the grace of god i am what i am , and his grace which was bestowed on me was not in vain ; but i laboured more abundantly than they all , ( meaning the college of the holy apostles ) yet not i , but the grace of god which was with me . ( i might produce many resembling passages of scripture , had i not handled this subject elsewhere . ) but truly , since you are commanded in the gospel to let your light so shine before men , that they may see your good works , and glorify your father which is in heaven ; you ought to consider whether or no your expressing a serious dislike of others present , and your own former practice ( in point of swearing ) do not either proclaim your repentance , or infer you a hypocrite . and if your reason ( as questionless it will ) lead you to embrace the affirmative , believe you are then further to be put in mind , that not only the confession of our virtues is justifiable when it is necessary to your justification , but ( tho in all other cases our actions should commend us , not we our selves , praise being a debt which he that pays himself , acquits all others of ) even the mention of our own praises is allowable , when they are produc'd , not to extol , but barely to vindicate us , and finds a sufficient defence in its being necessary unto ours . the owning of repentance has so much of penance in it , that there is not any grace more indispos'd to a perversion into vanity ; for still repentance ( like the pardon it endeavours to procure ) does presuppose a fault , having this particular unhappiness above other virtues , that men cannot arrive at it but through vice. and therefore in the return to the disinterestedness of action , virtue ( who can scarce more reward our love to her , than by imparting unto us a higher degree of it ) commonly recompenceth so unselfish a duty , by making it a powerful engagement to perseverance against relapses ; and any affront or loss sustain'd upon that score , turns to a blessing , by producing in us towards religion , the usual property of sufferers for a cause , more zeal and passion for the party men have been sufferers for . but admit you could not own repentance , without being fancied vain , must the fear of others sins continue ( those that are immediately ) yours ? will you rather let others sin by imitation of your bad actions , than in their misconstruction of your good ones ? and will you quench the spirit , and refrain from being virtuous , lest men should think you know your self to be so ? especially since our ignorance in good performances , tho it criminate the act , degrades the agent from the title of virtuous : virtue being a habitude elective , and election pre-requiring knowledge . which reason i might fortify , by asking to what end preachers should light us so many candles , and give us so many touchstones to discover and examine graces with , if our being conscious to our own repentance were a fault that deserved it ? undoubtedly , that were ( and that were strange ) to make it our duty to seek , what it were our sin to find . this last reflection i must recruit , by adding , that since our improvement of , and thankfulness for grace , will be expected proportionable to our stock of it , ( as the parable of the talents , and our saviour's declaring , that where much is given , there also much will be required , evinces ) we cannot without the knowledge of our receits , know what our returns must be ( of gratitude and duty ) to be answerable to them . the utmost that modesty does exact of you , is the declining of those praises your actions do deserve , not the refraining actions that deserve praise , for fear of being suspected to affect it . but truly , bashfulness , tho in maids thought a virtue , in virtue is a fault ; for sure it is one of the worst complements you can put upon the spirit , to lock him up in a dungeon , for shame to own his visits . the union betwixt virtues is too strict , and their assistances so reciprocal , that that may be concluded to be no virtue , that forbids the exercise of any , and does not rather facilitate than obstruct it . certainly 't is better be accused of vanity , than guilty of relapses ; and if some reputation must be lost , 't is fitter that you should be dishonoured by other mens faults , than god by yours ; for he is good enough to recompence his servants , not only for being good , but for their not being thought so for his sake ; and to make one day their dishonour ( not only the foil , but ) the purchase of their glory . i have spent the more ink to carry away this obstruction , because i have observed it to be a block , at which the best natur'd novices in piety are the most prone to stumble ; the devil , our subtle antagonist , ( more serpent far than that he tempted our first parents in , when he insinuated himself into our credulous mother's easy faith ; in which sly winding creature , he elected not a fitter instrument than emblem ) in the scruple we have laboured to remove , leaving his own to assume the borrowed habit of an angel of light ; in that disguise to make virtue clash with grace , and pervert modesty into an obstacle of reformation . thus when man was once fallen from paradise , even cherubims intercepted his return unto the tree of life . ] the last excuse . lastly , ( replies the swearer ) all this i confess to be very true ; but what would you have me to do ? long time and custom have so habituated me to this vice , that i find the impossibility of my subduing it , as great as my willingness to leave it . answ . well , i am very glad we have brought you to this pass : 't is then confessedly a sin , and a great one : the question therefore is , whether it be fitter for god to make it no sin , or you not to make it yours ; and for him to be reconcil'd to the evil of its nature , or for you to desist from its practice ? your apology is just as excusing as the murderer's would be , who should alledge before his judge , that since he had been a murderer from his youth , he begs to be excused ; but truly for his part he could not help it , and he must needs continue the trade of cutting of throats , that he had so long practic'd . is not yours a holy consequence , i have been wicked long , therefore i will continue so still ? sure 't is the devil's logick , from those sins that evidence the justice of our suddener repentance , to infer the legitimateness of our relapses into crimes . the argument would have as much reason , and more honesty , that concludes out of , i have been wicked but too long already ; that , therefore i must be so no more ; and from our former want of piety , infers there needs a greater measure now to make amends for past omissions . you would judge him uncharitable , that should tell you that you are scarce so much as desirous to be forgiven : but ( to shew you how little you have for your opinion , besides your wishes ) consider who would think that delinquent very ambitious of pardon , who refuses to accept it , unless he may have license to thieve again ; and declines to purchase it by an engagement against former misdemeanors . certainly , weak is th' excuse that is on custom built ; for th' vse of sinning lessens not the guilt . and custom in evil rather increases than contracts the fault ; for that custom that now is the parent , was first the child of sin , since the evil of custom proceeds from the custom of evil ; ( like ice , which tho it easily thaw into water , was first produced out of that element's congelation . ) and therefore our equitable and impartial laws , that in theft chastise the first faults only with a brand upon the hand or shoulder , punish relapses with deserved death . nor are the obstacles that oppose your cure , so stubborn as you are pleas'd to fancy them . we flatter our selves in augmenting the difficulty of our repentance , that we may lessen the guilt of our neglects . the truth on 't is , our baseness adds dimensions to these difficulties , because we are really loath to forsake our sins , and yet would fain cheat our consciences into a belief , that our refractoriness and impenitency do proceed , not from our unwillingness to mend , but from our impotence . we do not , in this case , like many flourishing orators , who out of ostentation use to create monsters , afterwards to quell them ; but like children in the dark , who fancy first horrid mishapen bug-bears , and then are frighted by them . and yet when the slight penalty of a shilling is laid upon each oath , and strictly exacted , we may easily discern a visible abatement in the tale of your sins , as long as you are true to your engagement ; which were not most men too soon weary of , would ( probably ) soon make them weary of offences of that nature . 't is the opinion both of pious and of judicious persons , that swearing is therefore , tho not the most unpardonable , at least the most inexcusable of vices ; because that in it men have most power to refrain : and in effect , this sin is so destitute both of temptations , advantages , and apologies , that in subduing the custom of swearing , we have scarce any thing but the custom to subdue . try ; 't is less easy to surmount the belief of the difficulty , than the difficulty it self , which nothing makes so much invincible , as our thinking that it is so . here , a willingness to hoise sail ( to quit this ruinous vice ) serves for a prosperous gale. if therefore christ by giving you a desire to shake off the clogging yoke of sin , do call you to himself , give me leave to say to you , as the people did to the blind man of jericho , be of good comfort , rise , he calleth thee . and to compleat that comfort , i must tell you , that the operation of saving grace upon the sicknesses of the soul , is like that of the pool of bethesda upon the infirmities of the body , since without all regard either to the age or greatness of the disease , so the remedy be but duly applied , the cure is infallible . i shall never despair of the recovery of any , that is but heartily desirous to be reclaim'd ; since that which god was pleas'd to make me lately instrumental to work upon a gentleman , whose nation being french , his vice little younger than himself , humor extremely cholerick , and his apprehensions of the successlessness of his endeavours very great , obliged him to vanquish indispositions numerous and great enough to make that concurrence very frequent in one single person ; and yet before one fortnight was effluxt , he obtain'd so visible a conquest over this stubborn vice , that he had afterwards only as many relicks of it to suppress , as might keep him from growing proud of so sudden a recovery . so easy is it after having vanquish'd the imagination of the difficulty , to overcome the difficulty it self ; for in matter of uneasy christian duties , we must not only consider the disproportion of our weaknesses to the obstacles we must surmount , but allow the disproportion of those obstacles , to the supernatural assistances we ought to hope for . for god requires nothing at our hands , which his own favour ( zealously implor'd by our addresses ) will not enable us to execute . and in this , the commands of god , differ from those of men , that the latter but lay on us an obligation , the former invest us with a power to obey them . as when our saviour commanded the sick man ( in the gospel ) to take up his bed , and walk , at the same instant he strengthens his sinews to perform what he enjoin'd : and in the first creation , that powerful command , let there be light , gave that bright creature an existence , to make it capable of paying him an obedience . let not then tasks above the forces of our nature , disanimate those that may expect assistances from his almightiness , who in the same leaves where he commands us to perform more than we are able , promises to do in us what he commands ; since difficulties are not essential properties of obstacles , but only disproportions to the powers they are to resist . but admit that your habitude of swearing have rendred your conversion as difficult as you pretend ; sure then , that which custom of sinning has confessedly made so uneasy , the continuance of that custom is very unlikely to facilitate : as probably may he , whom a surfeit of melons has cast into a fever , hope for a cure by eating more again . no , no ; remember that bad customs , like consumptions , admit of remedies in the beginning , but grow still more incurable by delay ; and vices , like young trees , the longer they are let grow , the greater difficulty there is in felling of them ; each single sin being not bad only for the evil of the act , but the propensity it gives to repetition . sect . ii. but because to shew a sinner the danger of his disease , without prescribing him the remedies that may contribute to his recovery , would be but to give him a perfecter knowledge of his wretchedness , and prove a truth as uncomfortable to him as an ignis fatuus to the benighted traveller that has lost his way , whose horrid light serves not to guide , but to affright the wanderer : i think it not amiss in the ensuing directions to cast the swearer a few cords , by which ( if they be carefully laid hold on ) he may happily be drawn out of that deep and dangerous pit of sin , into which his negligence or his corruptions may have betray'd him . nor let the courseness of these home spun lines divert you from making them instruments of your rescue ; for silk and satten ribbons , you know , are not so proper to draw men out of pits , as homely hempen cords : nor did the imprison'd prophet refuse to be drawn up out of the dungeon , tho by the help of old cast clouts and rags : since in cases of this nature , 't is not the value nor the fineness of the instrument , but their fitness for our purposes , that we ought chiefly to regard . but to begin without more circumstance . direct . i. my first advice shall be , seriously to consider , that swearing is a sin , and such a sin too , as not its nature , but its commoness only , makes men count little : for if we may judge of the greatness of the crime , by that of the vengeance heaven inflicteth on it , certainly god has divers times so severely punish'd obdurate and incorrigible swearers , that were his judgments on them as divulg'd as they have been terrible , that crying sin would ( possibly ) be almost as unfrequent as it ought to be . nor will the seeming harmlessness of that act do more than make a parallel betwixt your fate , and that fond wretches ( mention'd in the book of numbers ) that provok'd stoning , for gathering a few sticks on the sabbath-day . for tho almighty god ( whose will is the exactest rule of good and ill ) should forbid actions otherwise innocent , yet his prohibition divests them from that property : and ( as the preceding verses of that passage alledg'd of numbers intimate ) makes you liable to a just punishment , tho not for the act , yet for the disobedience . and consonantly we find , that tho the killing of so horrid and parricidicial a murderer as cain , might seem an act of justice , yet god by his prohibition having render'd it a sin , annexes a sevenfold vengeance to the breach of that command . nay , tho the rebuilding of a ruin'd city be in it self not only innocent , but highly conducing to the publick good ; yet god ( to shew the independency of his justice ) having forbidden the re-edification of jericho's raz'd walls , punish'd the transgression of that prophetick order , in the very children of the transgressor . an example of severity very observable , being not , that i know of , to be parallel'd . consider not therefore so much ( in your swearing ) the little harm you do , as the great god you offend . false coinage is as well felony in farthings , as in half crowns , or twenty-shilling-pieces . and as careful mothers soundlier whip their children for eating sowre crabs , and such green trash , than ripe and goodly fruit ; so often are those sins most severely dealt with , which bring us least advantage ; nor is it a prodigy , to see men get most stripes for those offences they get least by . it is an easy matter in trivial things to transgress heinously . what trifle could appear slighter than the eating of an apple ? yet this petty seeming peccadillo lost adam paradise , and us a title to it : god's interdict enabling the core of that forbidden fruit to choak his immortality , and his posterity's hopes of it upon earth . but i purposely decline all instances of this nature , not only in pursuance of my intended brevity , but because 't is much nobler and more handsom for you to owe your repentance to your reason , than to your apprehension . direct . ii. in the next place i shall prescribe , a zealous and incessant sollicitation at the throne of grace , for power to subdue this stubborn vice. this second advice st. james seems to suggest to us in these words , resist the devil , and he will flee from you ; and he immediately adds these , draw nigh unto god , and he will draw nigh unto you . and truly men presume too much , when they imagine those treacherous natural forces of their own , are able to redeem that spiritual liberty they were unable to defend ; and then they lose their best advantages , when their omissions of applying themselves to their maker , makes them neglect supplies infallibly victorious , which wait but the imploring , to advance to their rescue . cease not then with moses to lift up your hands to heaven , till you have thereby discomfited and destroy'd these spiritual amalekites , your vices : and believe it , prayer ( to use a term of physick ) is a specifick remedy against this disease , and deserves that among all the weapons proper for this warfare , you should say that of it , that david said of huge goliah's sword , there is none like that , give it me . for prayer perform'd with those due rites its object requires in it , gives us such awful sentiments of god's holy name , that our conscience will not in a short while after permit us to dispense with the usurping it in vain . and thus this sacred duty does not only procure , but in a manner give us what we pray for : as when some squeamish and disrelish'd person takes a long walk to the physician 's lodging to beg some remedy for his inappetence , his very walking thither does in some measure give him that good stomach he hopes to regain by the medicines he shall get there . but if in your first attempts this sin meet with a success more answerable to your fears than your desires , be not discourag'd at it , but make of this delay the use it is intended for , a rise of greater eagerness and importunity in the pursuit of your addresses . nor think it strange , that god should make you wait a while for the grant of your requests , that have been so tediously refractory to the motions of his spirit , that summon'd your obedience to his commands . but lose not patience , for the wish'd supply will infallibly arrive at last , and all your expectation will but serve to endear it when receiv'd ; for god will not be wanting with his power to assist what is undertaken only for his glory . nor is it less our duty to trust in his promises , than to obey his commands ; and we may confidently expect from his faithfulness to the one , what he will enable our endeavours to perform the other . the great apostle tells us , that the same god will give us to will , that worketh in us to do : and therefore you may be confident , that ( as he elsewhere speaks ) he which hath begun a good work in you , will perform it unto the day of jesus christ . and on this score our saviour , who entails happiness only to the godly , does yet pronounce them blessed , that hunger and thirst after righteousness , promising that they shall be satisfied . thus he that graciously accepts the will for the deed , counts good desires but infant holiness , as things that differ from more perfect graces , not in their nature , but their ( age and ) growth . in the mean time , let this consideration comfort you , that those sins displease god least , that displease the doer most : and that in this our combats against sins are differenc'd from our battels amongst men ; that in the former the victory depends not so much on our success as our resistance ; since none are there held vanquish'd , but submitters . and for your further comfort , you may take each victory grace wins of your corruptions , not only for a preparative to new ones , but an earnest of more . for the conquests of saving grace in the soul are not like those the sea makes upon the strand , when it makes acquisitions by the flow , but to lose them again within few hours by the ebb : but the expeditions of the spirit against vices , are like those of the crown'd rider of the white horse in the revelation , of whom it is said , that he went forth conquering , and to conquer . direct . iii. in the next place , as far as conveniency will permit , 't were fit to fly the conversation , or at least the familiarity of profest swearers . this advice of declining infectious company , tho in a general caution ever found prevalent against all vices , has a peculiar property against this : for there being very small ( if any ) temptation to it in our natures , it is principally imitated from others , ( as when one yawns , most of the company , though otherwise uninclin'd to that act , do usually yawn out of sympathy ) and so subsists but as 't is cherish'd by example and custom , ( its motive and its nurse ) . and therefore , a very effectual remedy against swearing , is by conversing where it is discountenanc'd ; to starve it by discontinuance , forcing that shame of singularity that first begot it , to make amends for the mischief it has occasion'd , by employing it to the ruin of its own productions . as physicians make scorpions their own antidote by preparing out of them an oyl that is sovereign against their stings . lovers of the same sin , may ( methinks ) be resembled unto firebrands , which being laid together , kindle each other by their mutual heat ; but being sever'd and kept so asunder , each single brand , after a little smoaking , does of it self go out . direct . iv. for the fourth remedy , i should advise the swearer to oblige himself to pay or suffer somewhat for every oath he swears ; those little forfeitures serving both as monitors and as penalties . but if the bargain tye you to pecuniary disbursements , be sure distressed christians be ( at least ) sharers in them . for if ( as divines tell us ) the poor be god's receivers , they seem to have a title as well by justice as by charity , to the amerciaments that are estreated upon trespasses against their lord. but have a care you turn not this physick into poyson , by imagining that when you have fin'd for your engagements , you have done penance for your sins ; and by your justice to your compacts , cancell'd your disobedience to your maker . no , no , god requires not that you should part with your sixpences , but with your sins ; and the repentance he accepts , consists not in a paying for , but in forsaking your transgressions . esteem then these inconsiderable mulcts but as remembrancers of your faults , not satisfaction for them . ally'd to this expedient is that useful one of procuring some discreet friend , by putting you in mind of every oath , to force you to take notice of your faults ; which this course will very much contribute to make you both weary and asham'd of . provided always , that these reprehensions be as well seasonable as just ; for to correct men in the first violent transports of their choler , is by administring physick in the extremity of the fit , but to exasperate instead of curing . reason being to our passions , as the wind to the fires ; the same puff that will blow out the flames of a candle , will but kindle those that prey upon a faggot . reprehensions may suppress passions when they are weak , but do but incense them whilst they are raging . 't is listed amongst the miracles of christ , that he once chid a storm into a calm . direct . v. the fifth thing that i must prescribe our swearer , is to resolve at once to renounce that vice , by a desertion not only sincere , but unsuspended and intire . were it but one of these mere moral failings , whose unfitness or misbecomingness makes all the guilt , i should possibly counsel you to wean yourself of it by degrees , whose progress were scarce discernible before its end ; just as physicians use to reclaim those that have been long accustomed to unwholsome diet. but as the same physicians , when once a dangerous surfeit is contracted , restrain not by degrees , but totally and abruptly , those excesses that occasion'd it , and whose continuance would prove fatal to the patient ; so here , where that which is to be forsaken , is not so properly a fault as a sin , we must refrain without the least exception or connivance ; since else ( the thing prohibited being in it self a sin ) we allow our selves to offend god as much as ever , tho not so often ; by committing the same sins in quality , however not in multitude . indeed what is lessen'd by the number of our oaths in this partial reformation , is recompenc'd by the aggravated heinousness of their nature ; those that seem'd formerly but the slips of infirmity , being now authoriz'd by dispensation . this bare abatement of the tale of our sins is a good refuge , but a bad design : many times this diminution is the utmost our endeavours can arrive at ; but then it ought to be practis'd , and not to be intended ; for true repentance , and a purpose of relapsing , are hugely inconsistent ; the one not being real , without a property destructive to the other ; since he but very lamely repents his crimes , that resolves not against relapses into the crimes that he repents . no , no , this faint desisting from some acts of vice , does but endear the rest that is unexil'd , and that importunately urge for the recalling of their banish'd companions . this mild remissness , if it do not prune a vice , at least it does but lop it ; and that prohibits not its future growth ; which the only way infalliby to prevent , is to dig it up by the roots , with the spade of an absolute and irrevocable resolve , never to accord to our selves so much as by connivance , the least license that may endanger a relapse . in this case , extirpation is that alone which can secure our quiet ; and the only way that leads to an establish'd safety , is a severity that its object secures from all possibility of excesses . a sinner's condition may be resembled to a mouse in a pail of water ; if she can get out at one leap , well and good , otherwise her toyl will prove but fruitless , in attempting to get out by degrees . direct . vi. lastly , my concluding precept is , to make frequent and serious reflections upon the vanity and foolishness of swearers , who live as if they meant to remove all our wonder from the folly of our first parents , that lost paradise for an apple . sure that these people are not quarter'd in bedlam , ( where far less frenzies have imprison'd many ) proceeds rather from the multitude of the infatuated , than any want of madness in their actions : but howsoever , wise men build cages for them in their opinions , and in their soberer thoughts condemn them to inhabit those frantick lodgings . that usual expression of scripture which sometimes puts the word folly instead of the word sin , seems chiefly calculated for the swearer's vice , to which it does so eminently belong , and which is so uncapable of being wrong'd by the appellation . but to what has been already delivered , to shew how little shelter our swearers find from all their weak apologies , ( as certainly the fruitlesness and inexcusableness of their vice considered , almost no sinners have more to answer for , and less to answer ) we must now add , that they want not only the temptation of an excuse , but the very excuse of a temptation , ( unless its being forbidden , pass for one ) . for ( first ) this mungrel issue cannot ( as other vices use to be ) be said at nature's door ; we cannot father it upon traduction , since we inherit it not from our parents ; nor is it born with us , but learn'd by us ; so that here , before we can be sinners , we must have been disciples . but ( then ) all other vices have either honour , ( as ambition ) , or profit , ( as avarice ) , or delight , ( as uncleanness ) , to plead for their excuse ; swearing alone can plead nothing but guilty : so that if ever that expression of the apostle , which mentions superfluity of naughtiness , belong'd to any sin , 't is certainly here to be appropriated . the silly indians , that part with gold and jewels , for glasses , whistles , and such trifling gugaws , are solomons to swearers : betwixt whose madness , and the fam'd folly of lysimachus , who ( parch'd with extreme thirst ) to get a little drink , became a voluntary prisoner to his ( soon after vanquish'd ) enemies , i find no disparity advantageous to swearers ; it being a less ill bargain , to sell away ones liberty for ones belly-full of water , than to sell away ones soul for a mouth-full of air. this swearing is a hook without a bait : and when hell employ'd its spurious brood of vices into the world to seduce mankind , it furnish'd every one of them with a dowry , either of fame , of pleasure , or advantage , to entice lovers with ; only poor swearing was left portionless ; a mistress ( only ) for those generous and disinterested sinners , that need no temptation ; but loving wickedness ( as they ought to do virtue ) for its own sake alone , aim'd at nothing in the act of sin , beyond the satisfaction of having committed it . to whom the lord may justly say , as he did to the israelites in the prophet , you have sold your selves for nought . for whereas usually those vices that rifle the soul , do bribe the senses ; in swearing the poor soul is stript of her graces , and robb'd of her joys , without the least emolument ( of pleasure or advantage ) accruing to the senses . this swearing ( in my opinion ) is e'en as foolish as loving a cruel mistress ; a man parts with his heart , and gets nothing in exchange for it . an oath is like the powder that charges a granado , its properties are to make a momentary , displeasing noise , to offend those that are within the reach of it , and to spoil that from which it parts . nor is that criminal blast unlike the prophet's description of the cankerworm ; of which he gives this character , that it spoileth , and fleeth away . but the less advantages this vice affords , the more culpable it is ; the disobedience as well as folly of a forbidden act being increased by the want of its being beneficial ; he that trespasses for least , transgresses most ; for sure 't is rather an aggravation than an excuse of having injured any body , that you get nothing by it . the ambitious and the incontinent , are like great ladies , that surfeit upon apricocks , nectarines , and melons : whereas the swearer is but too justly resembled to those beggars , that kill themselves with blackberries and slows , and such like trash , the excrements of hedges ; having appetites as ridiculously noxious , as those of some of our green-sickness girls , whose stomachs rise at dainties , and long for loam and charcoal . for my part , would i renounce my interest in virtue , it should be for the attaining of a scepter , a fame transcending caesars ; and ( in a word ) where the happiness i forfeited should seem so recompenc'd by that i gain'd by losing it , that wise men themselves should have occasion rather to compassionate my frailty , than admire my weakness . for i confess it would extremely trouble me to hang for my thirteen-pence-half-penny ; and i am confident , that many of those this senseless vice has damn'd , do find a vast accession to the pains of hell it self , in the consideration of the cause of their enduring them . since then , swearing is a vice so ill qualified , that you want a temptation to it , you find no pleasure in it , nor do derive any advantage from it ; o let not your obstinacy to doat upon an empty fleeting sound , that has nothing in it of a sin , except the guilt , hinder you from shunning torments that will equal your wretchedness to your folly , and from keeping up a title unto joys , whose very hope transcends all earthly happiness , by opposing all your past unnecessary oaths , by one inviolable promisary one , never to swear needlesly again . advertisement . to prevent all mistakes that may arise from some apprehensions of mine , which ( seeming to censure oaths without distinction ) may possibly be stretch'd beyond my meaning , i thought my self oblig'd to declare , that in no part of this discourse my intention was to justify that plausible error of our modern anabaptists , that indiscriminately condemn all oaths as absolutely and indispensibly prohibited and abolished by the gospel : my design being only to restrain the needless abuse , not interdict the necessary use of swearing . whose criminousness if not in this discourse i have represented in its most enlarged dimensions , i may find an excuse in the president and practice of those painters , who being to draw upon the concaves of the roofs of churches , make their pictures more gigantick than the originals they are to resemble ; to recompence by that advantage in the dimensions , what the eye loses by the distance from the object . for every sinner naturally beholding vice upon which he dotes , through the contracting optick of self-love , must have the idea of his crime enlarged beyond its true proportions , to make him see it in its just quantity . i might add , that 't is scarce possible to paint this ugly negro in blacker colours than his own ; especially since now this sin is grown so much in fashion , that it expects not ( as most other vices ) slow time or years to ripen it ; since in our very streets we hourly hear children ( who sure offer up oaths as the first-fruits to the devil ) swear , that can scarcely speak ; and see them perfect in their father's language , before they are old enough to speak their mother-tongue . but tho in the heinous properties of this vice i might find cause enough to justify more fierceness than i have exprest against it ; yet should i be extremely loth , with many ( much better stor'd with zeal than charity ) to doom all those to hell , that through frailty or temptation sometimes let slip an oath . for so severe a sentence may perhaps concern too many , whose addictedness to other , not to greater sins than ours , makes often all the difference of our guilts : and who in spite of all their slips and stumbles by the way , may by repentance arrive safely at the heavenly canaan : and therefore i shall conclude what has been said of swearing , with this sense of it , that 't is a sin too heinous to excuse neglect , and too venial ( if i may so speak ) justly to beget despair . a dissuasive from cursing . for mr. w. d. to sir g. l. a dissuasive from cursing . for mr. w. d. to sir g. l. sir , i have too much passion for your person , to have any complaisance for your faults ; and still have lov'd you at so high a rate , that i had rather hazard the loss of your affection , than decline any proofs of the reality of mine . 't is not that i am not as unwilling to employ censure , as i am confident you will be troubled to have necessitated it from me ; but ( all consider'd ) i have too much friendship , to have courtship enough to let slip so fair an opportunity as your forc'd conversation with cleander , to shew you in him the deformity of a vice , from which i wish you were as free as from all other crimes . certainly , if curses were as much the badges of a gentleman as he thinks them , men would not guess him to be of a lower order than that of emperors : and if the devil were to fetch all those he bids him take , his water-dog would not have half so busy an employment ; hell would have cause to praise his liberality ; and were not satan still the father of lies , he could not but acknowledge , that none of the seven deadly sins , ( nor perhaps all together ) sent thither half so many . if i thought cleander would take it for a dissuasion , that i proved cursing to be a sin , i could be as ready to bring prohibitions of it out of scripture , as he is to transgress them . the prophet david ( imitated by the apostle paul ) makes it the character of the wicked , that his mouth is full of cursing . and in another place , that they curse inwardly . and suitably to his own doctrine , when shimei ( equalling his curses to the number of his steps ) rail'd at him with as many imprecations as he deserved blessings , he did not ( to speak st. peter's language ) render evil for evil , or railing for railing ; but only answers , let him curse , it may be the lord will look upon mine affliction , and that the lord will requite me good for his cursing this day . our saviour commands us to bless even those that curse us ; nay , bless them that persecute you . bless ( says st. paul ) and curse not . and to shew you that it was not only his precept but his practice , being reviled ( says he ) we bless ; being persecuted we suffer it ; being defam'd we intreat . imagine then you hear the apostle saying , as in one place he does , be ye followers of me , as i also am of christ ; who ( says another apostle ) when he was reviled , reviled not again ; when he suffered , he threatned not , but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously . and in effect , when upon the samaritan clowns refusal to receive christ , the two fiery-spirited disciples desired leave to call down fire from heaven ( to consume those by the fury of that active element , who refus'd entertainment to him that created it ) our saviour answers , but with a rebuke , and telling them , that they knew not what manner of spirit they were of . if then , in spite of provocations we are enjoin'd to return prayers for maledictions , sure we that are forbidden to retribute curses , are much more prohibited to lavish them . and if we will take the pains to shrive , and to look back into their pedigree , we may discern in them a hereditary guiltiness , and shall find them sinful ( if i may so speak ) by traduction , they being but the emanations and sallies of a temper extremely unconsonant to christianity ; of which our saviour makes love the distinguishing signature : and st. paul tells us , that the end of the commandment is charity . of which in another place he gives this character , that charity suffereth long , and is kind ; doth not behave it self unseemly , beareth all things , is not easily provok'd ; with many other properties of the same nature . insomuch , that st. john scruples not to affirm , that if a man say , i love god , and hateth his brother , he is a lyar ; ( as concorporating things inconsistent , and uniting things distanter than the two poles of heaven ) : and therefore when st. james , speaking of the tongue with a certain kind of wonder , in these terms , therewith bless we god , even the father ; and therewith curse we men that are made after the similitude of god : out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing ; he adds , my brethren these things ought not so to be . and surely too , the gospel teaches us , that these assassinates and murders of the heart , for being bloodless are not therefore guiltless . but granting the sin to be as venial as indeed 't is heinous ; ( and that by using curses men did not merit them ) yet certainly the multitude of cleander's faults would give them that danger that is pretended to be wanting to their nature ; and he that considers that those little drops of rain , which single seem but so many liquid atoms , do often ( united by their confluence ) swell into torrents , nay , ( sometimes ) into deluges , will easily believe that curses cannot but be extremely criminal in that cleander , that curses as if he were an inhabitant of mount ebal ; and who is so resolved not to keep the devil's counsel by concealing any impious suggestions , that were but his prayers as frequent as his curses , he would seem to obey literally that qualified injunction of the apostle , of praying without ceasing . i might add , that in most of these imprecations , god's sacred name being clearly taken in vain , renders these ebalites guilty of the breach as well of the second commandment of the first , as of the great commandment of the second table ; unless they will justify themselves from that crime , by the owning of a worse ; i mean , demonstrate , that they d●d not employ god's name to no purpose , by confessing they employ'd it to a bad one . and now this last consideration leads me to that of the unreasonableness of cursing ; for it is not a fit thing , that upon every little accident that cleander's vex'd at , the creatures of god must instantly change masters , and devolve to the devil . were it not very just , that god should be the executioner of all the rash decrees his pettish passion makes ; and his creator's power should have no other employment , but to run on errands ( at the moody gentleman's beck ) often repugnant to his justice , and ever to his mercy ? nay , how often has cleander in his passion wish'd things , whose accomplishment himself confesses would have made him miserable ? and is it then either the part of a good man to make wishes that are unlawful , or for a wise man to frame desires of which he need repent the grant ? one imprecation amongst the rest cleander's very ready in , which ( with as little caution as he commonly observes ) i would not have pronounc'd for as many kingdoms as he has us'd it times , and that 's , the devil take me . for should god ( as we are sure he may , and know not but that he will ) give the devil leave to take him at his word , in what a case were he ? and what curb shall we henceforward think strong enough to bridle his corruption , when what to the wickedest is the greatest terror , he makes his wish ? there was some years since in geneva , an italian , ( both by extraction and humour ) who riding a handsome mare in a solitary angle , was by the devil seduc'd to stallion her himself . the fact once done , the horror of a crime that made him more a beast than that on which he acted it , transported him so far , as to make him give himself to the devil , if ever after he relaps'd : but some while after , forgetting both his conscience , and the condition of his vow , he was fatally tempted to repeat his former beastliness in the self-same place ; which he had scarce compleated , before the devil appearing to him visibly , remembers him of his forgotten promise , and claims the forfeiture : the trembling wretch , to avoid the being hurried away instantly from the hell he felt , to that he fear'd , compounds with the devil to resign him his soul at the expiration of a limited reprieve : but before that time came to be effluxt , it pleased god to visit both himself and the place of his residence with the plague ; which rowzing his sear'd and lethargick conscience , forc'd him to expressions of his anguish unusual enough to make his companions inquisitive into the cause ; which having fully and circumstantially confest , he was after his recovery , upon that evidence , accus'd of having carnally abus'd a beast , and having made a compact with the devil ; which latter , though upon a repentance suitable to his sin , god's mercy did disannul , yet the justice of the magistrate did for the former crime condemn him to a death he richly had deserved , and penitently endured . this story i thought not impertinent to instance in , to teach us how dangerous and unsafe it is to present that to the devil , for which christ shed his blood ; and ( with more wariness than cleander can pretend to ) to offer that to one that is greedy to snatch ( and therefore surely willing to accept ) that which the whole business of religion is to defend and rescue from his attempts . the story it self may teach us , that though we are never to despair of god's mercy , we are as seldom to provoke his justice . i have given it you in the very words of our friend mr. boyle , who had it upon the place from an excellent divine of that republick ; to whom the delinquent himself confest it , as to him that was assign'd to comfort and assist him at his death . and the instances are not unfrequent in the most credited authors , of those whose imprecations god has punish'd by granting them . but i had almost forgot to mention one opportunity to which the devil is indebted for a vast number of cleander's curses , and that 's his gaming ; for the least frown of chance upon him then , gives fire to whole volleys of curses against fortune ; if at least they deserve not a more heinous title than barely that of curses , who in severer mens opinions are guilty of an ( at least ) implicite blaspheming ; since solomon does discreetly affirm , that all these cross and happy lucks at play are not rashly or designlesly shuffled by a blind hazard , but are dispensed by an all-ruling providence . i determine not here , whether these words of the wise man ( according to the receiv'd opinion of divines ) may be extended to an absolute sentence of condemnation against all games of hazard ; but this i know , that ( not to insist on that injunction of god to the jews , be circumspect , and make no mention of the names of other gods , neither let it be heard out of thy mouth ; ) it is very unfit that under the sunshine of christianity , we should build or repair the ruin'd altars of depos'd chance , and acknowledge a blind deity ; that under the abused name of fortune , fools anciently were pleas'd to create a goddess , and sinners now dissemble to mistake for some such thing , that they may unreproved controul and censure those heavenly dispensations their proud and peevish natures are displeased with . i know that many unforeseen accidents , which the ignorant vulgar do impute to fortune , are by god in the scriptures ascribed to providence : and therefore you must give me leave , both to take notice of , and disapprove that ungrateful expression of our language , wherein ( to justify our unthankfulness for the benefits we have received ) we use to call god's blessing to a man in his outward possessions , his fortune ; as if our estates were gifts blindly cast on us by the rash profuseness of that fond deity , and not the emanations of god's bounty , and presents of his providence . old jacob's gratitude speaketh another strain , and will not mention his wealth ( though never so justly the wages of his prosper'd industry ) without acknowledging it for the gift of god. but since this much-abused name of fortune has presented it self in my way , i dare not take leave of it , till i have express'd a desire that men would be more wary how they defame her , lest through the sides of fortune they affront providence . if fortune under the common notion , had fee'd me to be her advocate , i should alledge , that gamesters of all others , have the least justice to complain of her disfavours , since the success of the one absolutely depending upon the losses of the other , they themselves reduce fortune to a necessity of disobliging some of them , by rendring it impossible for her to content them all . and i would add , that what we fondly call her inconstancy , when she sometimes forsakes those she once smil'd on , is much more properly to be ascribed to the justice of her goodness , and the extensiveness of her affection to men ; since seeing she is not able to make them all compleatly happy at once , at least she endeavours to make them fortunate by turns , and for some intervals of time . nor is it her fickleness , that in pursuance of this impartial love she seems to desert her former favourites , when she confers her favours on new persons , since she bereaves not the first possessors of them with intention , but only by consequent ; as being not able to lend her benefits to new necessities , without redemanding them of her former debtors ; whom , otherwise , she has as little design to offend by this transplacing of her bounties , as the sun has to benight the antipodes , when to bring light into our hemisphere he is necessitated to leave them in darkness . 't is not the malice or instability of fortune , but our mistakes of the nature of her presents , that occasion our complaints ; for we mistaking those benefits for absolutely given to us , which are indeed but deposited in our hands , repine and murmur at their restitution , instead of being thankful for their loan , and having had their use . and surely they that pretend to be so perfect in her inconstancy , must be guilty of more madness in trusting her , than she can be of treachery in deceiving them . but were i to frame an apology to vindicate fortune under the notion of providence , i might represent , that what we attribute of her envious partiality , when she does shower most favours on those that least deserve them , is but the effect of god's immenser bounty , that gives even them a larger portion of pleasures in this life , to whom he reserves none at all in the next ; and withal casts a disesteem upon these glittering goods , fools over-value , by heaping them upon his very enemies . i might farther alledge , that what our discontents , call fortune's spitefulness , and her injustice , when she seems to persecute those most , that are most virtuous , is in effect but god's care of his children , which by these afflictions both exercises and improves their piety , secures them from the allurements of prosperity , endears his assistances and his recompences by these difficulties ; which both add lustre to their victories , and make their vertues more exemplary and more meritorious . and ( lastly ) i might say , that what we miscall inconstancy in fortune , when her changes invalidate the title of prescription to her favours , and make their residence ( when possess'd ) as incertain as their wish'd stay is welcome ; is indeed but a merciful stratagem of providence , to wean us from a dangerous fondness of these transitory goods ; lest if the continuance of their fruition were as certain as the contentments of it are great , we should by neglecting forfeit all nobler joys , and lose far greater pleasures reserved for us in heaven . but we have too long wandered from our theme ; let us return to cleander and his cursing ; which over and above those other good qualities we have already observ'd in it , has that of being a sin as useless as it is unchristian . all other vices have something to extenuate their guilt ; all other sinners serve satan for his pay ; but the curser , ( as the swearer ) is the devil's volunteer , valuing his soul so cheaply , that some suspect , that the reason of its stay in the body , is , that the devil scarce thinks it worth the fetching : and certainly , esau's bargain , who sold his birth-right for a mess of pottage , becomes no more absurd when parallell'd to this ; which makes those it damns as much admir'd for their folly , as tormented for their sins , and so casts upon them the imputation of madness , that it deprives them of the privilege of mad-men ; for whereas frantick persons ( who innocently act all crimes ) may kill men without murther , the curser ( on the other side ) does murther without killing . cleander may indeed give himself to the devil by his curses , but never his enemy ; for if solomon's authority be credited in this point , we shall believe that , as the bird by wandering , as the swallow by flying , so the curse causless shall not come . but the best on 't is , that these intentional sins , for being ineffectual against others , divest not the being criminal in themselves : for the curser is as uncharitable to himself as to his enemies ; he commits murders without acting them ; and contracts the guilt of his neighbours blood , without shedding it ; and incurs the penalty , without once tasting the sweetness of revenge . for 't is not only in good that god accepts the will for the deed ; he makes the same reception to our endeavours and designs of ill. and justly may god punish the ill by us intended , tho by him prevented , since that disappointment in which we think to find our justification , is not the effect of our want of malice , but our want of power , and so does not excuse our ill , but magnifies god's goodness . let us therefore cease to wonder , that whilst we curse one another , our maker curses us ; and that the plague is so raging in our houses , so long as it is so rife in our mouths : but rather let us tremble at that dismal fate , that david praying against his enemies , prophecies against god's . as he loved cursing ( says he ) so let it come unto him : as he delighted not in blessing , so let it be far from him : as he cloathed himself with cursing , like as with his garment , so let it come into his bowels like water , and like oil into his bones . i might yet further alledge , that curses are of so culpable a nature , that their very apology concludes them guilty , by pleading them to be idle words : and i might add to all the past dissuasives , the ill repute that curses gain a man , amongst the most scrupulous and preciser sort of people , who judging of the greatness of the vice , by the smallness of the advantage that is derivable from it , will hardly believe him to be the owner of much piety , that will slight it upon so little a temptation . and those of our divines that hold curses to be the dialect of the reprobates in hell , will think it but an ominous piece of providence in cleander to imitate travellers , who use to accustom themselves before-hand to the language of those climes they design to visit . but the last consideration that i shall employ to persuade you to divest , with the practice of using curses , the means of provoking them , and the fears of suffering them ; is that of the scandal this vicious custom gives to weaker christians . and as the former considerations relate properly to cleander , so this i must more peculiarly address to you , whose vertues have acquir'd you so high a reverence , that they have put it in your power , not only to excuse , but almost to canonize the worst actions by your example ; and therefore ought to make you so much the more wary and strict in your behaviour : since men believing it impossible to fail in imitating you , your exemplary faults will contract a deeper guilt by being presidents , than by being sins . but , sir , lest i should give you too just an occasion to encrease the number of your curses , by bestowing some fresh ones upon my tediousness , i will now put a period to your trouble , by saying to you as once our saviour did to the young man in the gospel , ( that so resembled you in the possession of so many vertues ) one thing thon lackest ( yet ) ; and that one thing in you is but , by sacrificing your habitude of cursing , to make your self capable of as transcendent blessings as constantly are implor'd for you , by sir , your most affectionate , most faithful , and most humble servant , w. d. errata . page . l. . read wise man. p. . l. ult . r. promissory . the contents . vain swearing , as well as perjury , forbidden in scripture . page sect . i. the usual pleas and excuses for vain and rash swearing , considered . as , . it 's a venial sin. . they swear but seldom . . not so often as others . . they swear what is true . . they swear by the creatures , and not by god. . they swear by fictitious terms . . they swear some peculiar oath . . if they swear not , they shall not be believed . . if they swear not , they shall not be fear'd , nor obeyed . . they swear not , but in passion , or in drink . , . . they repeat but the oaths of others . . by using oaths they are looked upon as gentlemen . . if they renounce it , they shall be derided for it . a digression about repentance . . it 's impossible to subdue it . sect . ii. directions for the cure of it . . consider , it 's not the nature , but the commonness , makes swearing thought a little sin. . be zealous and incessant in prayer . . fly the conversation and familiarity of profess'd swearers . . let the customary swearer oblige himself to pay , or suffer somewhat for every oath . or procure some friend to take notice of it . . to resolve at once to renounce it . . to reflect frequently upon the folly of it . a discourse against cursing . pag. . books printed for , and sold by thomas cockerill . historical collections , the third part , in two volumes , never before printed ; containing the principal matters which happened from the meeting of the parliament , november the d. . to the end of the year . wherein is a particular account of the rise and progress of the civil war to that period ; impartially related . setting forth only matter of fact in order of time , without observation or reflection . by john rushworth . fol. life , reign , and trial of mary q. of scots . stitch'd . speculum theologiae in christo ; or a view of some divine truths . by edward polhill of burwash in sussex , esq to . christus in corde : or the mystical union between christ and believers , considered in its resemblances , bonds , seals , privileges , and marks . by edward polhill , esq vo . precious faith considered in its nature , working and growth . by edward polhill , esq vo . a discourse of schism . by edward polhill , esq vo . the evidence of things not seen ; or divers spiritual and philosophical discourses concerning the state of holy men after death . by that eminently learned divine , moses amyraldus . translated out of the french tongue by a minister of the church of england , vo . geography rectified ; or a description of the world in all its kingdoms , provinces , countries , islands , cities , towns , seas , rivers , bays , capes , names , inhabitants , scituations , histories , customs , commodities , government . illustrated with about maps . third edition . by robert morden . to . geography anatomiz'd ; or a compleat geographical grammar ; being a short and exact analysis of the whole body of modern geography ; after a new , plain , and easy method ; whereby any person may in a short time attain to the knowledge of that most noble and useful science , &c. to which is subjoined the present state of the european plantations in the east and west-indies ; with a reasonable proposal for the propagation of the blessed gospel in all pagan countries . illustrated with divers maps . by patrick gordon , m. a. essays on trade and navigation . by sir francis brewster , knight , vo . the almost christian discovered , in some sermons on acts . . with a blow at prophaneness . by the right reverend ezekiel hopkins , late lord bishop of londonderry . the possibility , expediency , and necessity of divine revelation . a sermon preach'd at st. martins in the fields ▪ jan. . . at the beginning of the lecture for the ensuing year , founded by the honourable robert boyle . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the certainty of divine revelation . a second sermon by dr. williams , at the same lecture . advertisement . whereas proposals have been formerly made for the reprinting mr. pool's , &c. annotations on the holy bible , ( to be review'd by mr. samuel clark , and mr. edward veal ) with the addition of a concordance and large contents before each chapter ; this is to give notice , that it is now in the press ; and the subscribers are desired to send in their subscription by the th . of june next ; after which time the undertakers will not be obliged to make the allowance of the seventh book . the undertakers are , thomas parkhurst , brabazon aylmer , thomas cockerill , jonathan robinson , john lawrence , and john taylor . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e anno . notes for div a -e mat. . , . v. . james . . eccl. . . hos . . , . zech. . . luke . . matt. . , . gen. . . exod. . . heb. . . mark . . jer. . ▪ mat. . . exod. . . gen. . . gal. . . prov. . . prov. . . prov. . . mat. . , , &c. lev. . . psal . . . mat. . . jer. . . deut. . . & . . isa . . . josh . . . jer. . . exod. . . sam. . . gal. . . cor. . . prov. . . james . . exod. . . matth. . . heb. . . mat. . , ● . eph. . . dan. . . prov. . . prov. . . exod. . . josh . . . mat. . . acts . job . . mat . . prov. . . mark . . the lines included within this parenthesis [ ] may perhaps pass for one , and appear somewhat foreign both to the theme and style of this discourse : i have yet ventur'd to insert ▪ them here , to please a person that i much affect ; leaving to the reader a liberty to skip them if he please ; but if he chance to vouchsafe them ▪ a perusal , i must beg for them his attention , not that they deserve it , but because they need it . it ends p. . cor. . . in an essay of mistaken modesty . mat. . . gen. . . mark . . john . , , . mark . , . gen. . . jer. . , , . numb . . . gen. . . josh . . . kings . . james . , . exod. . , &c. sam. . . phil. . . phil. . . mat. . . rev. . . mat. . . gen. . . josh . . . judges . . jam. . . isa . . . nahum . . notes for div a -e psal . . . rom. . . psal . . . sam. . . & . pet. . . sam. . , . mat. . . rom. . . cor. . , . cor. ▪ . pet. . . luke . , . john . . tim. . . cor. . , &c. john . . james . , . deut. . . thes . . . prov. . . exod. : . gen. . , & . gen. . . prov. . . psal . . , . matt. . . mat. . . a brief discourse concerning the lawfulness of worshipping god by the common-prayer being an answer to a book entituled a brief discourse concerning the unlawfulness of the common-prayer worship lately printed in new-england, and re-printed in london, in which the chief things objected against the liturgy, are consider'd. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a brief discourse concerning the lawfulness of worshipping god by the common-prayer being an answer to a book entituled a brief discourse concerning the unlawfulness of the common-prayer worship lately printed in new-england, and re-printed in london, in which the chief things objected against the liturgy, are consider'd. williams, john, ?- . the second edition corrected. [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england. -- book of common prayer -- controversial literature. worship -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a brief discourse concerning the lawfulness of worshipping god by the common-prayer . being in answer to a book , entituled , a brief discourse concerning the vnlawfulness of the common-prayer worship . lately printed in new-england , and re-printed in london . in which , the chief things objected against the liturgy , are consider'd . the second edition corrected . let all things be done decently , and in order , cor. . . london : printed for ri. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , m dc xciv . imprimatur , august . . geo. royse . the preface . how pious or learned the author of the book i undertake to answer may be , i am no more concern'd to know , than i am who the author is , whom the publisher bath thought fit to commend as such ; and having so done , to conceal . but he is not ( as far as i conceive ) the more learned or pious for writing this book : not the more learned ; for by all the helps he professes to have had from didoclavius , &c. he is guilty of many gross and palpable mistakes : and not the more pious , because of the uncharitable reflections and inferences he every where makes . for would any man of a truly christian temper alledge these things now against the common-prayer , which were alter'd or expunged above thirty years before he published his brief discourse ? or charge us with violating the word of god , because we change the word sabbath for the seventh day ; or say that we sacrilegiously steal from it , because hallelujah , or praise the lord , is sometimes left out in the reading-psalms ; or that we equal the apocrypha to , and set it up above the canonical scriptures , because it s read on the highest holy-days ( as he saith , but not very truly ) tho the articles of our church expresly declare them to be only of humane composition . suppose now i should treat this author after the same manner ; and whereas he professes to have compared our liturgy with the missal , &c. i should take all advantages given in his book , to shew , that notwithstanding this , he had never read them . i am certain , i could much more easily , and as charitably do it , as he make good his abovesaid charge . for would any one conversant in the missal , breviary and ritual of the church of rome , have said ( as he doth , p. . ) that beza notes , that in the roman liturgy , men are taught to cry , jesu miserere mei , no less than ten times one after another ? for what need he quote beza for that which he has ( as he saith ) read himself ; and which after all , beza mistook , and he with beza ; or rather he mistakes beza in ; since the jesu miserere thus repeated , is not in the missal , &c. but in private offices of that church . who again , that had been conversant in our liturgy , would have said , as the author , some have observ'd , that of apocryphal chapters , but are omitted ? for what need he to be beholden to another's observation , for what he that had thus read the liturgy must have under his own eye ? so easy is it to repay him in his own coin , if we will reflect and infer after his way . it 's a shrewd sign this author was hard put to it to make good his charge against the liturgy , and to prove his point , that it 's unlawful to be present at the common-prayer worship . and after all , it 's of little service to our author , and those of his communion , to make such exceptions as he has done ; for if all things were alter'd and remov'd that he objects against , they of his way would be no nearer to us than they are , as the things stand at present ; as long as we are a national church , and have a liturgy ; and whilst they continue independent and congregational , are against the use of any forms , even such as are scriptural ( as the lord's prayer and decalogue ; ) nay , against reading the scripture in their publick congregations . indeed he had dealt more sincerely , if he had acquainted his reader , that they hold it unlawful to communicate with us , because we are a national church ; and that they don't joyn in the common-prayer worship , because it 's a form , and all forms are in his opinion unlawful . this indeed had struck at the root of all ; but this he knew was not so easily prov'd , nor would look so popularly , as to cry out heathenism , judaism , and popery , which he charges our service-book with . this indeed will rouze the multitude ; and it 's no wonder when possess'd with this representation of our worship , that the deluded people broke into the church ( erected at boston for the worship of god , according to the church of england ) to search for the images they supposed we worship'd . the time was when the antinomians from among themselves , treated them in the like way , and call'd them legal preachers , popish factors , scribes , and opposers of christ . and they may remember what had like to have been the effect of it , if they had not taken up what their adversaries call'd a bloody tenet . and truly we had reason to fear it , if there had not been a superior authority to over-rule it . but i shall forbear to recriminate , and shall leave the rest to the book , where i have let nothing escape that requires an answer ; and i hope have given a sufficient answer to it , and in the issue have prov'd , that ( as far as his exceptions go ) they have no reason to forbear being present at , or joyning in the common-prayer-book worship ; which is the matter of the first question : nor that it 's unlawful to take an oath by laying the hand upon the bible ; which is the matter of the second . a brief discourse concerning the lawfulness of worshipping god by the common-prayer . the first question proposed by the author , is , q. what are the reasons why you judge it unlawful to be present at , or to partake in the common-prayer worship ? the reasons he gives are four , taken , . from the original of the common-prayer-book , which , saith he , with the ceremonies and worship prescribed therein , i find to be in a great measure popish and heathenish . . from the matter of the common-prayer-book . . because publick liturgies of humane composure , are an innovation and deviation from primitive purity . . in this age of light , it would be a great apostacy in the least to countenance or comply with the common-prayer-worship . these are the reasons he advances , and by which he endeavours to justify their continuance in a separation from the church of england , and the worship therein administred . and these i shall take the liberty to examine . for the clearer discoursing upon which , i shall divide what i have to say , into so many chapters , viz. . of the original of the common prayer , or english liturgy . . of the matter of it . . of the original of liturgies . . of worship by a liturgy . chap. i. of the original of the english liturgy . our author saith , that the common-prayer-book , with the ceremonies and worship prescribed therein , are in a great measure popish and heathenish ; and therefore it is unlawful to joyn with it . this will be resolved into two questions . q. . whether the common prayer be taken out of the mass-book ; and be heathenish , as well as popish ? q. . whether the being taken out of the mass-book , makes it unlawfull to be used or joyned with , tho it be good and lawful in it self ? q. . whether the common-prayer is taken out of the mass-book ? as our author takes care to represent it , one would think there is little of the roman service left out in ours . the common-prayer , saith he , is in a great measure popish — is taken out of the popes mass-book — it cannot be denied it 's derived from thence , p. . there is very little in the english , which is not to be found in the other , p. . this is matter of fact , and so is not to be determined by authority . he himself makes a fair proposal , which i shall accept of , viz. let such as have any hesitancy about this matter compare the popish missal , &c. with the english liturgy , and they will be convinced , of what ? that he had never read and compared them ; or is guilty of a notorious abuse that he puts upon his ignorant reader , that after he pretends to have read and compared , shall assert so gross a falshood , and say , there is very little in the english , that is not to be found in the other , &c. . for there is little comparatively in the english , which is to be found in the roman liturgy , and far more is left out , than ever was taken thence . this is indeed directly contrary to what he affirms , and yet let any one compare them , and he will be convinced of the truth of it . take that which is called the cannon of the mass , or form of administring the eucharist , and there is no agreement , not one collect or prayer the same . go we to baptism , there is not one prayer belonging to that office that is in ours . and as for the litany , there is not a third part of theirs in ours , and much in ours which is not in theirs . . there is nothing in the service of the church of rome , which makes it the popes missal , and is peculiar to that church , that is in ours ; that is , there is no popery in our liturgy . this he is in part forced to acknowledge . there are , saith he , things ( as prayers for the dead , &c. ) in the roman liturgy , which are not translated into english . his et cetera , if branched into particulars , would be very large , as he could not but know , if he had read and compared them . as for example , where are their crossings , elevation , and adoration of the elements ? where their solitary communion , and communion in one kind ? where their frequent crossings of themselves , and of the book ? where their material crosses , and the adoration of them ? where their prayers for the dead ? where their intercessors , the virgin mary and saints , that are to be found in the cannon of the mass ? where are the many exorcisms in baptism , the puffs they blow in the infant 's face , their conjuration of salt , for a wholesome sacrament to the driving away of devils , that 's put into the mouth of the infant , as a propitiation unto eternal life ? where the spittle with which the ears and nostrils of the infants are touched with an ephphatha , be opened ? where the oyl of salvation , ( as it 's call'd ) wherewith the priest anoints the child's breast and shoulders in form of a cross ? where the chrism or oyntment wherewith he anoints the crown of the head in figure of a cross ? where the change of garments , their purple and white robe , that the child is to carry unspotted before the tribunal of our lord ? where the lighted candle put into the child's hand , that when our lord shall come to the wedding , he may meet him ? where the many crossings of the head before baptism , and of the eyes , ears , nostrils , breast , shoulders , mouth , &c. to be found in their ritual and pastoral ? lastly , to go no farther , where are the o holy mary , mother of god , &c. pray for us ? where are the angels and arch-angels , the patriarchs and prophets , the apostles and evangelists ; the martyrs , popes , and confessors , the priests and levites , the monks and hermits , the virgins and widows , the forty seven saints in particular , and all saints in general , that are called upon in their litany , pray for us ? and if nothing that is truly popish be to be found in our liturgy , we have so far reason to deny that it 's taken out of the mass-book . . i add , that our service is so far from being taken out of he missal , that whatsoever in it is the same with the office in the church of rome , is mostly taken out of the ancient offices of the christian church . and because every one cannot compare it , i will produce impartial authority for it . thus saith mr. ball , a nonconformist of great note in the last age , the english liturgy is not a collection out of the mass-book , but a refining of the liturgy , which heretofore had been stained with the mass — and is not a translation of the mass , but a restitution of the ancient liturgies . so the ministers of old england , in a letter to the ministers of new england , wrote anno . it 's no hard task to shew , that our service-book was reformed in most things according to the purest liturgies , which were in use long before the mass was heard of in the world , p . to these i will add one more , for the character our author gives of him , viz. bishop jewel ( whom he calls that great light in the english church , p. . ) who saith , we are come as near as possibly we could to the church of the apostles , and of the old catholick bishops and fathers — and besides , we have aimed not only our doctrine , but sacraments also , and forms of our publick prayers , after the patern of their rites and ordinances . to say the truth , it 's a very odd thing to represent our liturgy as popish , when those that composed and used the liturgy , were burnt by the papists for it , and when to this day they will not communicate in it , nor with the church that useth it . our author saith , there have been jusuits and popish intelligencers that approved of our service , and pope pius th would have ratified it ? and is it therefore popish ? the independent allows the presbyterian confession of faith ; and this author saith , p. . it must be acknowledged that such of the church-of-england - men , as keep to the articles in matters of doctrine , are as orthodox as any protestants in the world . and is therefore the independent a presbyterian , or this author a church-of - england-man ? i trow not . all is , that they agree in the common principles the other receives , and yet one is no more the other , than if they had no agreement in such principles . and so is it here , the english liturgy has nothing but what is agreeable to the doctrine of the gospel , and allowable by the christian church ; and therefore what the papists will , or ought to allow ; but for all ▪ that , we are no more papists , nor that any more popish , than the independent is a presbyterian , or our author a church-of - england-man . it was not then , because it was popish , that they approved of our service , but that it was christian , and pure in its order and composure ; neither was it because it was popish , that the pope would have ratified it , but because upon any terms he would have prevailed upon queen elizabeth to own his authority , and regain'd her to their church . . however i deny not , but that the compilers of the liturgy did peruse the popish offices , and take as much from thence , as was conformable to the ancient offices , and was fit to be used ; and that the rather , that they might the more easily satisfie doubting or discontented minds under the alterations then made , and induce them to comply with them . and this was the meaning of king edward's proclamation . a practice very christian and commendable , and agreeable to the apostolical prudence , which we read of , acts . . . cor. . , &c. and which the nation soon felt the happy effects of , when by this excellent conduct it became , generally speaking , reformed . but yet after all , so little was taken out of the mass-book , &c. that they differ'd more than they agreed in , and more was left than taken out . but our author stays not here , that the english liturgy , saith he , is originally heathenish as well as popish , is manifest , . in that the pope's liturgy from whence ours is deriv'd , is so . the principal parts of the mass-book were borrowed from idolatrous pagans . they came from numa pompilius , p. . ans . it has been sufficiently made out by protestants , that there is a great affinity and agreement between the heathenish and popish rites ; but our author does an injury to the argument , when affirming , that the principal parts of the mass-book , were borrowed from idolatrous pagans , he goes no further than vestments , holy water , and incense , as if these were the principal parts of the mass-book , and the chief things that that agreed in with the idolatry of the heathens . but this indeed is not to our purpose . well! suppose there be this conformity between the papist and the pagan ; what is that to us , if we agree with neither ? but that he attempts to prove . for tho he cannot find incense and holy water , and his et caetera among us , yet he saith , what vain repetitions does the common-prayer book abound with ? in one service the worshippers must repeat these words . good lord deliver us , eight times over . and , we beseech thee to hear us , twenty times over . the gloria patri is to be repeated ten times in the same morning or evening service . that the heathens were wont to worship their idols just after the same manner , is clear from matth. . &c. and beza notes , that the roman liturgy does abound with them , wherein men are taught to cry jesu , jesu , miserere mei , no less then ten times one after another . for the better resolution of which , i shall proceed in this order . . we grant , that there may be such things as vain repetitions in prayers , and other divine offices , for that is a fault our saviour charges on the heathens ; and what we , as well as our author , charge on the church of rome , and is also frequently charged by those that use and plead for forms , on those that use extemporary prayers . . we yet do maintain , that there are such repetitions in divine worship , as are not vain , that are neither heathenish or popish . such do we read of in the old testament , as , psalm , . . . , , . . . . , , . . , , , . . throughout . and thus our saviour repeated the same words thrice in his agony in the garden , matt. . . and twice on the cross , matt. . . and consequently all repetitions are no more condemned by our saviour in matt. . . than all long prayers are , matt. . . so that the vanity of repetitions does not consist in using the same words eight times or twenty times in prayer . for do we repeat in our service , good lord deliver us , eight times : and glory be to the father , &c. ten times ? and , we beseech thee to hear us , good lord , twenty times ? so we find , that they not only had their thrice , and their four times , but their twenty seven times in every verse of psalm . his mercy endureth for ever ; which psalm was most used on solemn occasions , as we may find it , chron. . . . , . . . ezra . . jer. . . so that we may more truly say of the church of god amongst the jews , than he doth of the heathens , and their idols , that they were wont to worship god just after the same manner , with repetitions in their service , as we . . we are to consider wherein the vanity of repetitions consists , so as to be after the manner of the heathens . this admits great variety , and just bounds cannot be set ; so that it 's not to be exactly said , here the vain repetitions begin . but they are such ; . when they that use them , think that they shall be heard for their much speaking , as our saviour saith , the hethens did : thus the priests of baal did , crying out , o baal hear us , from morning till noon ; and accordingly elijah upbraids them , kings . , . . when it is nothing but tautology , viz. a repetition of the same words without new matter ; or of the same matter , but in different words . such were the verses of battus the babling poet. such were the hymns used often by the heathens , in the worship of their gods. such are the jesu , jesu , &c. without intermission , sometimes used in the roman church . but when there are distinct petitions , as when we say , we beseech thee to hear us good lord , it 's as lawful to close each after that manner , as it is to say amen , which we find to follow every particular petition , and was distinctly repeated for twelve times together after that manner , deut. . . . vain repetitions , are when the words are thought sufficient , tho the heart be not with them ; but this may be common to any . so that tho there are repetitions in our service , as there were among the heathen , and are in the church of rome , yet ours are not vain , nor such repetitions as theirs , by reason of the matter only , if accompanied with the heart . . he saith , some of the most learned patrons of liturgies produce it as an argument for them , that the heathens made use of forms in their idolatrous worship , p. . and so he makes this the difference between the heathens and christians , that the first used forms , but the last prayed without them . as for the practice of the christians , we shall have occasion to speak of it under another head ; neither shall i trouble my self with the opinion of those learned patrons of liturgies , he speaks of : but i shall take his argument as it lies before us , which is , that our liturgy is heathenish , because we use forms as they did . he might as well have said , our liturgy is heathenish , because we use words as they did ; since it 's no more heathenish to use forms than words . if they had the use of forms , it rather shews the sense that mankind generally have of this matter ; and that there cannot be too great a care taken of our demeanour in divine worship , according to the direction of the wise man , eccl. . . be not rash with thy mouth , &c. for god is in heaven , &c. therefore let thy words be few , and well considered . but if the heathens had forms , so had the jews , so had christians , as i shall shew ; and so forms no more make our worship heathenish than jewish . but of this afterwards . but supposing , that our liturgy was ( as he would have it ) taken out of the mass-book ; yet , q. . will the being taken out of the mass-book , make that worship , which is otherwise good and lawful , to become unlawful to be used , or joyned with ? this he affirms , and offers to prove after this manner , it 's a known maxim ( saith he ) omnis honor idoli est idolatria . he that shall put any respect upon an idol , cannot be clear of the sin of idolatry ; but the mass-book is an idol . and he that useth a prayer , or joyns with a prayer taken out of that book , thereby puts an honour upon an idol — how then can we joyn in prayers taken out of the idolatrous mass-book , and offer them to the holy god ? in which there are three things contained . . that the mass-book is an idol . . that to take a prayer out of the mass-book is a respect to an idol , and is idolatry . . that it 's unlawful to joyn in prayers taken out of the mass-book . . the mass-book is an idol . this we may justly question , because an idol is the representation of some divine or beatified object , and that is as such propounded and set up for adoration ; such are the images of god and our saviour , of angels and saints in the church of rome . but in this sense the mass-book is no idol ; there is no prototype or object it represents , nor is any such adoration paid to it , as is paid to an image , or a crucifix . we grant as well as he , that the mass-book is idolatrous , as it contains some things that are so , and is used in idolatrous worship : but it no more follows from thence , that it is an idol , than that the incense , holy water , or vestments , are idols , which are used when they say mass . but supposing the mass-book for once to be an idol , that we may proceed to the next question , viz. . whether the taking a prayer out of the mass-book , be such a respect to it , as makes the prayer to be idolatrous ? to this i answer , that the prayers taken out of the mass-book , and inserted in our liturgy , are so far from being a respect , that it is a disrespect to it . for at the same time that some prayers were taken out , those were rejected that were left behind , for the gross corruptions that were in them ; and by so doing , the reformers as much testified to all the world their abhorrence of it , as the emptying of the house of the goods and utensils not infected by the leprosy , and their forsaking it , was a plain declaration of its pollution . so that if prayers taken from thence are good , the using them when taken thence , is no idolatry , and communion in them no sin , and no more unlawful than it was to use the vessels that were carried out of the infected house . but this is the main question , viz. q. whether that which has been used in idolatrous worship , may , if otherwise good and lawful , be used where the worship is not idolatrous ? this he denies , and for it offers these reasons . we ought not to name an idol , but with detestation ; much less may we offer it as worship to god. psal . . . exod. . . hos . . , . p. . . it was paul's judgment , that meat once offer'd to idols , should not be made use of , cor. . . therefore a service-book offer'd to idols ought not to used . for there is a parity of reason . . god hath strictly prohibited his people all symbolizing with the heathen in civil usages , because he would not have them imitate the heathen levit. . , . — especially in matters referring to the worship of god. hence they were prohibited going up by steps to the altar . exod. . , . to plant a grove near the altar , deut. . . and to worship to the east , ezek. . . before i proceed to consider these arguments in particular , i shall state the case it self ; for resolving of which , we may observe . . that there are things idolatrous in their own nature , or by a standing positive law , and so are always the same . such is the picture of god , and worshipping by images . . there are things that have been customarily appropriated to idolatrous worship , and the use of which in common estimation , has been accounted idolatrous . such was the offering incense among the heathens ; and therefore the primitive christians refused it , as an acknowledgment of their worship ; and the thurificati were reputed idolaters . . there are other things that are used as well in true as idolatrous worship , and are lawful in themselves ; such as time , place , habit , posture . the first is always , unlawful , and makes the worship idolatrous . the second is not to be used where it has been thus appropriated , and thus accounted , during such an opinion of them . so that it 's the last of these that the whole turns upon ; for after all the clamour he makes about idolatry , and the charge he would fain fasten upon us , he can produce nothing that is idolatrous amongst us , no images , no prayers to saints , nor so much as any thing appropriated , or in common estimation so accounted ; no incensings of books or images , no sprinklings of holy water ; but it all amounts to this , that forms and repetitions have been us'd by idolaters ; that they had white garments , and observ'd holy-days ; so p. , , . which are things lawful in themselves ( as i shall shew ) and cannot be made unlawful by being us'd in idolatrous worship . for when idolatry is not in the nature of the thing , but in the use , take away the use , and idolatry ceaseth ; and consequently it may be lawfully used where there is no idolatry in the worship , and no idolatry in the use of it . and if it be not to be used , it 's not because it 's unlawful in it self to use it , but because it 's forbidden by god , as was the case among the jews ; or because of some circumstances that make it inconvenient and dangerous . thus it was lawful to eat that meat , which had been offer'd to idols , when it was afterward expos'd to sale in the shambles , or set upon the table at an entertainment ; because it was thereby restor'd to a common use ; when yet it was not lawful to sit at meat in an idols temple , for that was to have fellowship in the idolatry , chap. . , . it is then no more idolatry to use a white garment , or a temple , or observe a day , or to use a prayer that has been used or observ'd in idolatrous worship , or by an idolatrous church , than it was to eat meat that had been offer'd to idols . purifie the gold , and separate the dross from it , and the gold is not the worse for the dross that was before mingled with it . scrape the walls , and cast out the infected materials of it , so that the house be freed from the leprosie , and it might have been as well inhabited , as if it had never been infected , num. . . ( to make use of former comparisons , p. d. and d. ) and take the things lawful from the things unlawful , and they become lawful again , and may be lawfully used . but saith he , the rubbish of the leprous house was to be cast into an unclean place : and the leprosie breaks out still ; therefore we may have no communion with it . p. . but surely it 's the same thing if we leave the house that is infected , as it is to carry away the rubbish into an unclean place ; else why doth he talk of leaving the communion for the sake of the leprosie of idolatry ? we grant the church we left to be idolatrous , there the leprosie is ; and therefore we left it ; but we left the idolatry with the church , and let him prove there is any of the leprosie of idolatry in what we have taken out of it , and then he would say somewhat to the purpose ; but that he is far from . let us however consider his arguments relating to the general part . . we ought , saith he , not to name an idol , but with detestation , much less offer it as worship to god. i answer , st . the naming there forbidden , is the naming an idol with respect ; and indeed the addressing any worship to it . so psal . . . their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god ; their drink-offering of blood will i not offer , nor take up their name into my lips : that is , they might not name them by way of worship , nor offer sacrifice to them . d. where is there such a naming of an idol amongst us ? what respect do we give to his idol the mass-book ? what saint do we adore ? but , saith he , the prayers are taken out of the idolatrous mass-book . but what then , if there be nothing of their idolatry in the prayers that are taken thence ; when such are taken thence they are no more idolatrous than before they were taken into the mass-book . d . he saith , it was paul's ▪ judgment , that meat once offer'd to idols should not be made use of , cor. . . therefore a service-book offer'd to idols ought not be us'd . for there is a parity of reason . i conceive he is much mistaken in the account he gives of the apostle's judgment , who is so far from maintaining meat offer'd to idols to be unlawful , that he makes it a thing indifferent ( as before ) ; and what a person may with a safe conscience eat of without scruple , unless it be with respect to another's conscience that is thereby offended , as the apostle determines it , v. , . now if meat offered to idols might be eaten of , then a service-book that has been used in idolatrous worship may be lawfully us'd ( when the things contain'd in it are otherwise lawful and good . ) for there is a parity of reason , as he argues . . he saith , god hath prohibited his people all symbolizing with heathen , &c. we grant that god did prohibit the jews all symbolizing and agreement with the heathens in their idolatry . that is not the question . but , . whether an agreement with idolaters in what was once used by them in idolatry , becomes idolatry , or be unlawful because it has been so used ? . or whether what was forbidden to the jews is forbidden to all people , and to christians as well as they ? these we deny . the first we deny as to the jews , that every thing us'd in idolatrous service was unlawful to them ; for he says , the priests of isis used to wear linnen surplices , p. . and yet such linnen garments were the priests and levites to officiate in . so circumcision was used among the egyptians , &c. and yet continued to be used among the jews . again , we deny that what was in that kind forbidden to the jews , was forbidden and unlawful to all . for , st . a great part of what they were forbidden , was with respect to the people that before inhabited the land ; with whom they were to make no covenant , but were utterly to destroy them , their altars and groves , &c. exod. . , . . . deut. . , , . . they were a people very prone to idolatry , and so were tied up by strict restraints and penalties . . they both came from egypt , where they had long convers'd with idolatrous service , and afterward border'd upon nations violently addicted to idolatry and sorcery ; and in such circumstances there were these checks laid upon them ; and an assimilation to the customs of such forbidden . and all this was not from the nature of the thing , and because all usages of idolators were unlawful , but because of the circumstances of people , time , and place : and if so , then we must leave the case of symbolizing , and no longer make it a case of conscience , but of prudence and expediency ; and so we are left to judge what is fit to be retained , and what not ; what practised , and what not . and here our reformers shew'd their prudence and moderation , by what they chose ; when the ceremonies were few ; and what were the ceremonies of the ancient church , rather than the romish . when they chose some , that they might not give offence to the churches of christ in other parts of the world ; and yet retain'd no more , that they might not burden their own communion . when the offices they selected were agreeable to the ancientest offices of the church . so that there was no reformation in any place , where so much temper was preserv'd , and where the purity of religion , and the simplicity and solemnity of divine service were more regarded : that what was good was retained ; what was noxious was purg'd out , and even what was superfluous was exscinded . but this he will not allow . for , saith he , the use of such a liturgy doth harden the papists in their idolatry , p. . so the liturgy came from rome , and will perhaps lead thither again . p. . but , . how can such a liturgy harden them in their idolatry , or lead thither , which has none of their idolatry in it ; and in which the papists are expresly charged with idolatry ? vid. rubrick at the communion . . how can this harden them , or lead thither , which has been the means of banishing and keeping their idolatry out of the kingdom ? . how can this harden them , or lead thither , when the papists agree with our author , that it 's unlawful to be present at , or partake in the common-prayer worship , and are excommunicated if they do ? . how can this harden them , or lead thither , when there is nothing that the papists more labour to possess the people with prejudices against ? but he adds , p. . the jews themselves are scandalized by the liturgy . it 's a celebrated saying among them , that the christians have their jephilleth from armillus ; that is , their prayer-books from antichrist . at what are the jews scandalized ? is it that we have a liturgy ? so have they themselves had of latter ages at least . and so the author saith , p. . that he had seen liturgies written in the hebrew tongue . is it that we receive our prayer-book from antichrist ? yes , saith he , and for this quotes a celebrated saying of theirs . but is this the truer for their saying so ? they say , it seems , that christians have receiv'd their prayers from antichrist : but i hope that there are many christians in the world , that have prayer-books which they never received from the antichrist he speaks of ; so the greeks and abyssins , &c. the whole is at least a sorry mistake , and which , for ought i see , he understands no more than we do his jephilleth . the case is plainly thus ; that the rabbins say , that armillus was to be a person of prodigious form , begot of a marble statue in rome , and was to be the last enemy of the jews , and the leader of the christian forces against them ; that he should kill messias ben ephraim , and at last be killed by messias ben david . that he should give tephilleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and a law to the christians , which he and they set up in opposition to the law of moses . so that we see that his tephilleth is the law as well as the prayers of christians ; and they make armillus to be toward the end of the world , the last enemy of the jews ; and how could our liturgy , or the liturgies now used by christians , be the prayers received from armillus , when armillus is yet to come , according to the rabinical notion ? if the reader pleases he may have a fuller account of this jewish garagantua in buxtorf's lexicon , chald. talmud . rabbin ; for i am weary of this trifling , and unintelligible jargon . chap. ii. of the matter of the common prayer-book . before i proceed to the particular consideration of his objections relating to this head ; let me observe , that if we should grant what he finds fault with to be blame-worthy ; yet it 's not to the purpose , and the point he proposed ; which is to give reasons why he judges it unlawful to be present at , or partake in the common-prayer worship . and that for these reasons . for , . there may be many things that are a reason against ministerial conformity , which will not be a reason against communion with the church ; since there are those things required to the one , that are not required to the other . such is the surplice , the office for burying the dead , marrying , p. . &c. which belong to the minister , and not to the people : and therefore tho it should be unlawful to wear a surplice , or use these offices , yet since lay-communion is not concern'd in them , they are no reason for separation . . many of his objections are only directed against the occasional offices , and so can be no reason against constant communion in the daily office , or in those offices in which they do not occur . as supposing what he alledgeth out of the office of burial , marriage , baptism , &c. to be true and sufficient , yet tho they may be a reason against being present at the offices of burial , baptism , and marriage , they are no reason against communion , where those offices are not concerned . . things inconvenient , if not unlawful , are no reason for a separation , because then there could be no communion with any church , since no church is without them : and if we should grant the reading a worse translation of scripture , and the apocrypha , in the church , to be things of that nature ; yet it will be hard to shew them to be unlawful in themselves , and so to make it necessary to withdraw from the church where they are used . if these things be consider'd , most of what he has said will be prevented ; but that i may not seem to avoid any thing , i shall take notice of the particulars as they lie in order . and his arguments taken from the matter of the service-book , are ( . ) some things appointed therein are , in the judgment of sober and judicious persons , extremely ridiculous . as how ? first , saith he , how many odd and senseless translations of the holy scripture have been found therein ? it 's well , he said have been found ; for he is fain to draw all his inferences of that kind , but one , from the service-book , as it stood before the last revisal , and that is psal . . . or ever their pots be made hot with thorns , so let indignation vex them , as a thing that is raw . at which he triumphs , what nonsence is this ! now i do not think that to be nonsence which is not soon understood ; for then what will he make of the hebrew in this verse , which has several difficulties in it ? but i think there is a good account to be given of the sense of this version ; and that is , e're that the pots are made hot with the thorns , they shall be severely punished : the being made hot with the thorns , sets forth the suddenness ; and the phrase , vexing a thing that is raw , denotes the severity of it . ( . ) his next instance of things extremely ridiculous , is , that in the liturgy , the writings of the prophets , acts and revelations , are called epistles . if these were formerly , they are not now so called ; but of these when read in the place of epistles , it 's said , the portion of scripture for the epistle . that is , the sections of scripture read in that order , are generally epistles ; and so , as it 's usual in other cases , gives the name to all : and as it is not now , so never was it called the epistle of the prophets , acts , or revelations ; but the epistle taken out of isaiah , &c. ( . ) he objects against the responses , those broken responds , saith he , and shreds of prayer ( as mr. cartwright calls them ) which the priests and people toss between them like tennis-balls , seem extremely ridiculous to standers-by . without doubt this is a venture of wit ; but i suppose there are standers-by that will call it by another name ; and instead of wit , term this scurrility in conversation , and prophaneness in religion ; especially if we consider how many psalms there are in holy writ , that are penn'd ( or supposed at least to be so , by learned men ) after this way . and whatever his standers-by may think , there are persons of piety ancient and modern , that have thought this way very becoming , and of excellent use to quicken devotion , and excite attention . what may not be said in any case by such persons as these , that call this way of devotion ( as he doth ) a taking god's name in vain ? and what occasion may others take after the same manner , to treat their long prayers , that are often nauseous to standers-by , for their affected length , and tedious enlargements , and forced repetitions . . he objects , the common-prayer book is guilty of violating the sacred word of god : and here he charges it with no less than obliterating , contradicting , adding to it , and detracting from it ; and then concludes , amongst men , clipping and corrupting if coin is treason ; and certainly it 's a dreadful thing to add to , or take from the word of god. dent. . . rev. . . and it 's certainly a dreadful thing ; and wo to them that are guilty . here i should have expected a rounder charge by one that had so exactly read the liturgy , and that he would have told the world that we take whole chapters from the word of god , and which have no place in our kalendar , nor are read publickly in the church , as i do acknowledge . and surely if the omission of one verse in a psalm , and of hallelujah in others , be a taking from the word of god ; then much more is the omission of whole chapters ; nay , of three whole books . but he durst not press that too far ; for if he had , it would have fallen hard upon such as never have the scriptures read in their congregations , tho that was a solemn part of divine worship in the churches of god , as the scripture informs us , acts . , &c. and if the church of rome is so deservedly blamed for reading the scriptures in an unknown tongue , what do they not deserve that never read them at all in their congregations ? surely if they had , according to our saviour's advice , considered the beam in their own eye , they would not have thus magnified the mote in their brother's eye . i remember a question in a book of the same kind with our author's , whether protestants do not sin in defrauding the people of some books and chapters of scripture , as well as papists in defrauding them of all ? and then what sort of protestants are they , that with the church of rome defraud the people of all , so far as the publick service of god is concern'd ? but to return : before i shall consider his few instances , that he would make good this bloody charge by , i shall premise a few things . . that the instances he offers are , at the worst , mistranslations , slips , and errors , and not chargeable with perverseness , according to what we charge upon the church of rome . for here is no interest to be served : for what is our church concern'd , whether it be read as the liturgical translation has it , the th day ; or as the common translation , the sabbath ? whether as that , they were not obedient to his word ; or as this , they rebelled not against his word ? whether as that , the rod of the wicked cometh not into the lot of the righteous ; or as this , resteth not ? whether , as in that , the titles of some psalms and hallelujahs are omitted ; or as in this , they are inserted ? surely here is no interest visible in this , that should incline our translators of the psalter to pick out these texts above all others to make bold with . . mistranslations and errors of this kind , are no sufficient reason for not using such a translation , and much less for separating from a church where they are used ; for then no translation could be us'd , or no church communicated with , because no church is without such translations , and no translation without such errors . thus it was in the church of the jews , when the septuagint was used in publick ; which doth often alter and add to the original hebrew ; and yet was not only used , but is quoted by the divine writers , even in many places where those alterations and additions are . so it alters , heb . . . . rom. . . act. . . it adds , as luk. . , . act. . then also must not our common translation be used , which besides the mistakes allowed to be in it , does add in many places , and particularly half a verse , john . . so it adds the dates and subscriptions to the epistles , chapters , verses , and arguments , throughout the whole , as if canonical . and of this kind are all his instances . as ( . ) he saith , the common-prayer-book violates the word of god , as sometimes the words of scripture are obliterated , and others put in their room . thus in the catechism they have changed those words in the fourth commandment , the lord blessed the sabbath-day , into the seventh day . a. we grant it is so ; but it 's to be remember'd , that it 's not so in the th of exodus , but in the liturgy ; and if the liturgy differs from exodus , it 's a difference without a distinction , since the seventh day and sabbath are all one ; and if it differs from exodus , it agrees with the first institution , gen. . . where it 's said , god rested on the seventh day , and god blessed the seventh day , and sanctified it . ( . ) he saith , sometimes the liturgy makes bold directly and in terms to contradict the scripture ; so psalm . . it 's said they were not rebellious , but the common-prayer-book saith , they were not obedient ; and so psal . . . we grant , that there is a seeming contradiction in words , but not in the meaning of it ; for the relative they being undetermined , and indifferently to be applied to moses and aaron , or to the egyptians , accordingly is this place to be interpreted ; if understood of the former , it 's to be read in the common translation , they were not rebellious ; if of the latter , it 's to be read in the translation of the liturgy , they were not obedient . and this last reading is according to the present reading of the septuagint , and some other translations that follow that . and yet that translation was generally used by the primitive christians , and was worse than any ever used by us . as for psal . . . the rod of the wicked shall not come , &c. that is , so as to rest there , and so as to tempt them beyond what they are able . ( . ) he saith , sometimes the common-prayer-book adds to the scripture ; there are three whole verses added to the th psalm . and the gloria patri is frequently added to scripture , as if it were canonical . ans . when he saith , that it is a dreadful thing to add to the word of god , and charges our church with it , we might expect some very criminal instances to make it good ; and when he saith three whole verses are added , one would think that this was somewhat invented , and herein inserted by the church upon some wicked selfish design . but , . tho we allow that such verses are added , yet it 's not an addition to scripture ; for tho not found in this place , yet they are in another , viz. rom. . . and quoted by the apostle from other psalms , &c. . it 's not the common-prayer-book that adds , but the translations which the common-prayer followed , viz. the septuagint and vulgar ; and tho it was a mistake , yet it 's far from being such as incurs the penalty of deut. . , &c. as for the gloria patri , i deny that it 's added to the scriptures as canonical , any more than the contents of the chapters , the chapters and verses of the bible , or the dates of the epistles are ; nay , i deny that it 's added at all ; for any one that can read , will see that it 's not inserted in the psalter , but only rehearsed as the rubrick directs . and it was for a good end that this was anciently used in the orthodox churches of old , and is continued in ours , viz. in opposition to the arians , and anti-trinitarians . sozom. l. . ( ) . he saith , sometimes words are sacrilegiously stolen out of the bible . as the last verse is omitted , psal . . so are the scriptural titles of many psalms . and i know not how often those words , praise ye the lord , are left out . he durst not trust his reader with the things left out , for they would have appear'd of so little consequence , as would have betrayed the weakness of his cause , as well as his own partiality : that verse omitted , psal . . is this , the prayers of david , the son of jesse , are ended . the titles of the psalms are for the most part such as are no key to the matter of them , and without which the psalms are as intire as the chapters without the contents : the clause , praise ye the lord , as in the hebrew , hallelujah , and is only left out when it 's independent , and has no immediate relation to the preceding or following verse . and the reason of these omissions seems to be , because the psalms being to be read in parts , according to the ancient custom in chrysostom's time and before , or chanted , and so read on without naming the psalm , the titles , &c. would have made a break in that order . and this was done after the manner of singing the psalms in the temple-service , in which the titles , and the passage , the prayers of david the son of jesse , are ended , were to be sure no part . and so it is in the singing-psalms , used by the dissenters as well as us : and who may as well be charged with such omissions as we , who there , for the reason abovesaid , use neither the verse nor titles . surely these persons are hard put to it , that after such a bloody charge of violating , adding to , and taking from the word of god , can produce no better proofs and evidences for it , but only that we leave out the titles and hallelujah , and that only in the ordinary service in the publick , where they themselves read it not at all ; and when upon the like way of arguing , we may charge them with laying aside the whole scripture , out of which they read not one chapter for the information of the people . he goes on , . in the liturgy the apocrypha books are made equal with , nay advanced above the holy scripture . strange ! that a church should be guilty of this , that in their articles exclude them out of the canon ; and saith , that they are not read to confirm any doctrine , but only for informing the manners . but let us see how he proves this , not by any assertion of the church , but some stretches of arguing . as , ( . ) they are made equal . for in the preface to the common-prayer , it 's said , nothing ordained is to be read but the pure word of god , or that which is evidently grounded on the same . but is the apocrypha so ? here for improving his argument , he alters the words of the preface ; and for that which is in that , agreeable to the same , he reads evidently grounded on the same , and then triumphs , is the apocrypha so ? but take it how he will , its evident from hence , that the apocrypha is so far from being made equal with scripture , that there is a plain difference between them ; for that to which a thing is agreeable , and on which it 's grounded , is above that which is agreeable to it , and grounded upon it . a plea grounded on the law , is surely of less authority than the law on which it is grounded . the apocrypha being read , not for establishing any doctrine , but for informing the mannners ; there is nothing in what is appointed of that kind to be read , but what is agreeable to the word of god , and not contrary to it ; and so may be read , as well as their sermons be heard , which can pretend to no more . ( . ) he saith , the liturgy appoints the apocrypha to be read as lessons , just as i find it in the pope's service-book , and in a greater proportion than scripture ; for ( as some have observ'd ) of apocryphal chapters , but are omitted . so that these books are equalized with the pure word of god. but surely he doth not find it in our service-book , that the apocrypha lessons are read for canonical scripture , and declared to be so , as they are in the pope's service-book ; but only as apocrypha . he that will look for the apocrypha-books in the pope's bible , as well as service-book , will find them mixed with the canonical , as hester and esdras , &c. but he that will find them in our bibles , will find them by themselves , and apocrypha in the head of them . if , as he affirms , the apocrypha is read in a greater proportion than scripture , it doth more than equalize , and doth rather advance it above the scripture , and so belongs to his next assertion , which he would have done well to have reserv'd it to , to make up the proof he is there wanting in . as for what he affirms , that the apocrypha is read in greater proportion than the scripture ; nothing more false . for , . all the second lessons throughout the year , are out of the new testament . . all epistles and gospels read on sundays and holy-days , are wholly out of canonical scripture . . all first lessons , on sundays are out of the old testament , and none out of the apocrypha . . on the holy-days , on the week-days , there are but apocrypha first lessons , whereas there are out of the canonical scripture . . when the apocrypha is appointed to be read in course , it 's not clear two months for first lessons , but the holy scripture is read all the other ten months , and more . . of the books of the old testament , but are entirely omitted , viz. chronicles , and canticles ; but of the of the apocrypha , are not read at all . . of the chapters of the old testament , are read in course , and only omitted ( the reasons for which generally will appear to the reader ) , but out of the chapters of the apocrypha , there are ( not as he saith ) omitted , and among them that of tobit , that he objects against . where methinks he that pretends to have read and compar'd , shou'd have had more value for his own understanding , than to be beholding to others , and to say some have observed ; for there is nothing like a man 's own observation in matter of fact. . he saith , the liturgy advanceth the apocrypha above the scripture , by intimating that they are more edifying , and can be less spared than many portions of the holy canon ; and by ordering them to be read on the highest holy-days , and many of them twice , some thrice in one year . methinks in such a round charge as this , that the liturgy advanceth the apocrypha above scripture , he should have had more than an intimation for his evidence . he calls it before , high-treason ; and surely it 's very hard to be condemned for it by a bare innuendo ; and yet even he fails in his intimation . for , . if it were true , that the liturgy order'd the apocrypha to be read on the highest holy-days , and many of them twice or thrice in the year ; it would not follow , that they accounted them more edifying , and less to be spared than scripture ; especially when scripture is read on the highest holy-days , and some portions of it twice or thrice in the year too . . it 's not true , that it 's ordered to he read on the highest holy-days : for on the highest holy-days , there is nothing but scripture to be read ; such are all the days dedicated to our saviour , as the nativity , circumcision , epiphany , good-friday , resurrection , ascension ; and all the lords-days . . he saith , many of them are read twice , some thrice in the year . for the twice , it 's only chapters , viz. in wisdom , and in ecclesiasticus : and as for his thrice , there is none but the th . chapter of wisdom , which after it had been read on the conversion of st. paul , has verses of it read on all-saints . but now , as to the scripture , the whole new testament , except the revelation , is read over thrice in the year in course , besides epistles , gospels , and lessons out of it on holy-days . and the old testament is read over once , except as before excepted , in course . and many portions are read again in the service of sundays and holy-days , which amount to above lessons ; and some few have a third course . would any one that observes this , think such a writer , a person of any care , i had almost said conscience ; that utters as black slanders as pen can write , or mouth can utter , and charges a whole church with violating the word of god , and adding to it , and detracting from it , and of advancing human writings above it , and yet shall come off with changing a seventh day for sabbath , with leaving out hallelujah , with intimations , and falsities , with others observations , that pretends to have read and compared , and what not ; and after all , charges us with this , for lessons appointed to be read in the publick congregation , when they themselves read none at all ; and have no other translation of scripture , than what was translated by us , and which they use in common with us ? this is hard usage indeed ; and if we should retort upon them in the like way , we should think , if we may judge of their value for scripture by their publick service , there are none have a less esteem for it than they , that read not one chapter of it by way of lesson throughout the year , as has been before said . . he saith , such things are enjoyned in the common-prayer-book , as ( to my conscience ) cannot be practised without sin. but what is this to those that are not obliged to practise them ? what is it to laymen , that the priests are required to give the holy communion to all new-married persons ; or to use the prayers over the dead ; or to put the ring on in marriage ; or use the surplice , & c ? but what is this which cannot be practised without sin ? . ministers are requir'd to give the holy communion to all new-married persons , whereas marriage-festivals used to be accompanied with such divertisements as unfit them . by this doctrine , all that may marry , may come to the lord's supper , whereas marriage is an ordinance which men as men ( and not as christians only ) have a right unto . so that by this prescription many will eat and drink damnation to themselves . ans . ( . ) if this was required , yet it 's not inconsistent with that state , which is rightly call'd , the holy estate of matrimony ; and besides , those divertisements do not precede but follow . ( . ) surely those persons that are married amongst us , are supposed to be christians , and not to be married meerly as men. ( . ) if any eat and drink their own damnation , it 's their own fault ; and the danger of it doth not release any of their duty , or justify their neglect of it . ( . ) but the common-prayer-book doth not compel them ; it saith only , that it 's convenient at their marriage , or at the first opportunity after it . . when any man is buried , the priest must say , almighty god has taken to himself the soul of our dear brother , perhaps the most wicked wretch on earth . and that his body is committed to the ground , in sure and certain hope of a resurrection to eternal life ; tho he did never truly , nor so much as visibly , to the judgment of charity , repent of his sins . a. ( . ) the office of burial , supposes that of visitation of the sick to go before , where the minister is appointed to examine , whether he repent him truly of his sins ? &c. ( . ) it supposes the exercise of discipline , and that such as he speaks of , have the censures of the church exercised on them , which if they be not exercised , we know whom we are to thank for the relaxation of it . ( . ) however , the church provides not for extraordinary , but ordinary cases ; and if an extraordinary case happens , and be notorious , no rule of this nature then binds . ( . ) if it be not notorious , it 's safer to err on the charitable side . ( . ) it 's not now said , that it 's certain hope of a resurrection to eternal life . . the putting on the ring in marriage , especially the making that ceremony to be an essential matter , is superstition . a. ( . ) what superstition can there be in this , more than in joyning of hands , both of which are civil rites , and fit declarations of pledging their troth to each other ? ( . ) how can that be essential , which is one of the alterable things meant in the preface ? ( . ) it 's necessary there should be some rite used , and some actions by which the espousal should be solemnized , and why not a ring as well as joyning hands ? and why not these as well as others ? therefore bucer calls it , a very fit ceremony . script . angl. cens . c. . . churching women , and their offerings , is jewish superstition . a. ( . ) why jewish ? is there any other sacrifice than that of thanksgiving offered ? as there was , levit . . ( . ) what superstition is there more in kneeling down at offering up thanks to god , than in putting up a bill . however bucer saith , this is agreeable to scripture , c. . . the observation of popish holy-days , especially such as are dedicated to saints , i look upon as highly superstitious . a. ( . ) he looks upon them as such , but how far soever his opinion may pass with his own disciples , yet others expect somewhat more . ( . ) why doth he add popish ? surely he that has read and compared the popish liturgy with ours , must needs know that we have no holy-days for popish saints in our liturgy . as to which , i shall refer our author to mr. perkins on gal. . . . of the surplice , he saith , it 's highly superstitious . when holy vestments were in use among the jews , they had an express command for them . should they have made a mitre or ephod , or other ecclesiastical garment of their own heads , they would have sinned greatly ? witness judg. . . if then the church of god had no power to appoint sacred vestments , no more has the church in these days . — moreover the surplice is immediately borrowed from idolatrous mass-mongers . — dr. abbot ( who was no fanatick ) saith , that all priestly garments , whereby ministers are distinguished from the rest of the church , are a special part of the character of the beast . the papists take the surplice from jews and heathens . there were vestments for the worshippers of baal , kings . . bishop jewel saith , the priests of isis used to wear linnen surplices . moreover the greatest part of our protestant divines have disliked this superstitious garment . so martyr , &c. . his argument is , the jews had express command for their garments , &c. a. ( . ) had the jews no power to appoint or observe any thing relating to worship without express command ? how then came the feasts of purim and dedication , the places and houses of prayer ? nay , whence came the alteration of the posture at the passover ( which our saviour complied with ) contrary to the first institution ? and surely vestments are much of the same nature with times and places , &c. ( . ) supposing the jews might not , what is that to us ? yes , saith he , no more can we . why so ? the apostle shews we have a liberty they had not , and we may as well do what they could not , as forbear what they might not . they had not a liberty as we , because under a schoolmaster , and of a temper that needed it , and whose service was typical . and yet notwithstanding this , they had a liberty which they might use , and much more then have we . . the surplice , he saith , is immediately borrowed from idolatrous mass-mongers . a. ( . ) what is that , if there be no idolatry borrowed with it ? do we use it to sanctify holy-water , bells , & c ? ( . ) as for his quotation from dr. abbot , it 's a gross mistake , at least ; all he saith is , that the buyers and sellers , rev. . . are the bishops , priests , and monks , that expose to sale masses and indulgences , &c. that bind themselves by oath to the bishop of rome , and in testimony of it , are divided from the rest of the church by rites , vows , vnctions , tonsures , garments . where he speaks of garments in general , and no more of surplices than gowns ; and of garments they ordinarily wear , such as belong to monastick orders , &c. but if he had spoke of all garments that distinguish the clergy from the laity , dr. abbot had been in that a fanatick , and not dr. abbot , who himself wore such garments , and surely did not think by that , he had a special character of the beast upon him . what he quotes from bishop jewel , is not in that place ( if any where ) he refers to ; neither in the english or latin volume . . the papists take the surplice from jews and heathens ; and for this latter , quotes the priests of baal . a. but the text doth not say , they were any more white , than blue or black ; and he might as well have prov'd our gowns we ordinarily wear , or others prove their cloaks to be such , as well as he prove our surplices heathenish from that text. . he saith , the greatest part of our protestant divines have disliked it . a. ( . ) what saith he to the lutherans , who all use the like ? are not they protestants ? ( . ) do any he names dislike it so , as to think it unlawful ? ( . ) do they dislike it so , as to make a schism in the church ; or for it separate from a church ? i am certain these he produces , do declare just contrary . thus pet. mart. epist . amico & hoopero , &c. beza epist . grindallo . zanchy confes . c . § . . hemingius in leg. decal . § . . &c. enchir. tit . adiaph . c. . polanus in ezek. . and zanchy chuses the linnen before the woollen garment for divine offices , as a sign of innocence and holiness , de redempt . c. . i could much enlarge the catalogue of such testimonies , if it were necessary . so little did these learned men think mr. nichol's argument of any force , which our author proposes viz. that all vestments appropriated to the worship of god , and appointed for the signification of spiritual duties , by the will of man , are unlawful . but the surplice is so . this our author saith is , not easy to be answer'd ▪ but if it be to be answer'd , no matter whether it 's not easy in his opinion . from hence arise two questions ▪ q. . whether it 's unlawful to use any thing appropriated to the worship of god by the will of man ? q. . whether it 's unlawful to use any thing in the worship of god that is appointed for the signification of spiritual duties by the will of man ? by the first it 's unlawful for men to appropriate places , or times , or postures to the worship of god. and so it 's necessary , to avoid this superstition , to make all the meeting-places to be houses of merchandise , and to be equally divided between religious and common uses . by the d , any thing that has such a signification applied to it , is made unlawful , by vertue of such signification , and which without such signification would have been lawful . so a surplice would have been a lawful garment , if not appropriated , and without signification ; and might have been in its self worn as well as a cloak , since custom and use only makes the difference ; but appropriate it , and clap a signification upon it , it 's unlawful : and so a cloak may be turn'd out of service by the same way . so it 's in posture , kneeling and standing are indifferent ; but once appropriate kneeling to prayer , and make it significative , and to be a posture of reverence , and it becomes unlawful . and so without end . so much for mr. nichol's argument , and it's difficulty . . come we now to the cross , the greatest devil amongst all the idols of rome ; as he tells us mr. parker sheweth . he saith , . the first users of it were the hereticks , valentinus and montanus . a. that seems hard , when those that wrote against them used it , as origen , irenaeus , tertullian , and epiphanius did against the former ; and several others against the latter . we find it as ancient as tertullian , cyprian , &c. . he saith , mr. parker proveth it a sin against all the commandments , and a breach of the letter of the second : for men to appoint a religious ceremony , is a direct violation of the d commandment , which forbids all human inventions in divine worship , as any part thereof . a. there is a way of proving too much , and that any one that reads mr. parker will soon perceive he doth : and of this i take this instance of the d commandment to be one , of the letter of which the author saith , the cross is a breach . now the letter of the command respects two things ; . not to make any graven image for religious worship . . not to bow down to any such object . now the cross used in baptism is an aerial cross , as he calls it ; and where is the object or the worship ? but our author goes on to prove it after this manner ; for men to appoint , &c. here we grant the proposition to be true , because god only is to appoint his own worship ; and so it 's not in the power of man to appoint any part of it : but now if religious ceremonies may be , and yet not be part of divine worship , then they are no such human inventions as are forbidden ; and no direct or indirect violation of the d commandment . therefore it remains upon him to prove the cross a part of divine worship : for we say it 's only an adjunct , and is no more a part of worship , than the striking the blood upon the door-posts was ( to make use of zepperus his similitude ) or sitting or kneeling at the sacrament . . he saith . the arguments which are brought against the use of oyl , cream , salt , spittle in baptism ( practised by the papists ) hold as well against the cross . ans . this i deny ; for the scripture speaks honourably of the cross of christ , which this refers to , but not at all of the rest . again , the cross was traduced and reproached by the heathens , which gave occasion to the use of it , and so were not the rest . so that this was used with reason ; those without it . his instance of the gallows looks so prophanely , that i shall rather pass it by , than correct it . . he saith , the papists adore the cross , and it 's an idol , &c. ans . but do they adore the aerial cross ? but what is their adoration ( if it were ) to us , that do not adore it ? . this hath been testified against by zegedinus , lepperus ( it should be zepperus ) goulartius , &c. ans . the lutheran churches use it . see hemingius , &c. bucer accounts it neither indecent , nor unprofitable , but a ceremony of much simplicity , and of present admonition of the cross of christ ; script . angl. censur . c. . and generally they account it lawful , and not a sufficient reason for separation ; but to be used , so it be without superstition . so goulartius in cypr. lib. ad demetr . c. . . his last instance of superstition is kneeling at the sacrament . let us consider what he has to say against it . . he saith , men pretend in it reverence to christ ; but christ himself was personally present , when his disciples partook of the lord's supper ; yet they did not kneel , but used the table-gesture then customary among the jews . ans . ( . ) how is he certain the disciples did not kneel , but used the customary posture in receiving ? for the jews in the passover changed postures , and did not throughout keep to that of discumbency . see d. lightfoot . ( . ) the question is not what they did , but what may lawfully be done ? and then the question is , whether kneeling be unlawful ? ( . ) they themselves no more observe our saviour's posture , than the jews did that required at the first institution . our author words it cautiously , when he saith the disciples used the table-gesture then customary ; for he well knew it was not sitting , but leaning , or lying along , and that they used this by way of signification . ( . ) if the table be the rule to guide us , then to put on our hats is suitable , as he knows who reasons . . he saith , good and wise men have chosen great sufferings , rather than comply with this invention . ans . and there were good and wise men that compiled the liturgy , and used and enjoined this posture ; which is an argument he seeks to overthrow , p. . and as good and wise men have allowed and approved it ; and thought it by no means allowable to separate and break communion for it . such as p. martyr , zanchy , beza , zepperus , &c. bains , noyes , ames , cartwright , &c. . in primitive times christians did not kneel in the participation of the eucharist . ans . ( . ) it 's certain they did not sit , for they had no notion at all of a table-gesture , as appears by the use of the word altar , and that they counted that a posture of irreverence . ( . ) if they stood ( as he saith ) on the lord's-days , their standing was a posture of adoration , to be sure , when they received : so st. cyril expresly , catech. . ( . ) it 's probable that on other days , when not obliged to stand , that they kneeled ; and since they received every day , on six days they kneel'd ; so just . mart. respons . ad quest . . and that more especially , because they had a prayer at receiving , as we have . . he saith , it was enjoyned by pope honorius , being fitted to the idolatry of transubstantiation , &c. ans . this is a mistake ; for honorius did first indeed decree adoration to the host , but not kneeling at it . for that is a posture no where enjoyn'd in the church of rome ; and some of them say , it ought to be received standing ; but which way , whether ●●●…ing standing ▪ or lying , or kneeling , is not material say others , as the pope himself ordinarily receives sitting , unless he celebrates ; and then , as all priests then do , he receives standing . and all adore not at the receiving , but at the elevation of the host . . he saith , that religious worship , which is before a creature , and with respect to it , having no allowance from god , is against the commandment ; but so is kneeling before the bread and wine . ans . ( . ) i question whether god ever allow'd any religious worship before a creature , and with respect to a creature ; for that is idolatry , and no allowance from god can be supposed to justifie or require idolatry . ( . ) i deny that there is any religious worship with respect to the bread and wine ; for that , saith our rubrick , were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians . but it 's only , as it 's there said , for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of christ therein given to all worthy receivers . . he draws a conclusion from the whole , the english liturgy is very corrupt ; now to offer to the lord a corrupt thing , is evil , mal. . . ans . a corrupt thing there , is what is plainly prohibited : now let him prove the things before disputed to be such : as for example , that kneeling is forbidden . as for that place in malachi , i leave to his perusal the letter of the ministers of old-england to those in new-england , p. . where that is explained . chap. iii. publick liturgies of humane composure are an innovation , and deviation from primitive antiquity : and again , set forms of prayer devised by men are an innovation . for this he offers several arguments . . saith he , had a liturgy been needful for the edification of the church , undoubtedly christ , or the apostles by his direction , would have composed one , which none of them ever did . and therefore these men , who take upon them to compose and impose a liturgy on the churches , assume to themselves more than apostolical power . ans . i deny his consequence : for tho our saviour and his apostles did , declared and left all things essential to a church , yet there were many things needful to the edification of the church in future ages that were not expresly provided for . our saviour told the apostles , that it should be given to them in that hour what they should speak ; and they spoke all languages by present infusion ; and so were not obliged to think before , or study or learn a language ; and this was with relation to the present condition of the church in those times . and there are no directions for after ages to learn languages , &c. so there was a miraculous gift of prayer in the apostolical times ( as st. chrysostom observes , hom. . in rom. . ) and no express directions given about it , when that gift should cease ( as he saith it did ) and when by the cessation of it , forms would be necessary . thus faith capellus ( thes . salmur . part. . ) as soon as miraculous gifts ceased , and hereticks began to trouble the church , there was a necessity for liturgies . and therefore mr. ball saith , the christian churches for the space of this years at least , if not from the apostles times , have had their stinted liturgies . trial. p. , &c. so letter of min. of old-england , l. ▪ &c. but this our author denies , and calls it an innovation . and saith , . the liturgies father'd on the apostles , and the ancient writers ( call'd fathers ) learned men have evinced to be spurious . ans . ( . ) it 's granted , that those father'd on the apostles were so ; but tho not the apostles , yet many of the prayers in them were antient , and the main of that call'd st. james's , was used in the church at jerusalem , as dr. comber [ original and vse of liturgies , p. . ] in answer to clarkson , has shew'd from cyril . ( . ) it 's certain there was a liturgy composed by st. chrysostom and basil , and a great part of what is so call'd was certainly theirs ; as the abovesaid author has shew'd , p. . , . and of this mind were * mornay and † rivet . ( . ) the leaft that can be observed from these books , is , that when those books were writ , then liturgies were in use ; so daille ; we deny not but many of these liturgies are ancient , and written about the beginning of the fourth century , tho they were corrupted by additions and alterations at several times after their first original . . he would prove from an obscure passage in justin martyr and tertullian , that there was no book of prayer used by christians years after christ . ans . the passage in justin martyr is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which our author is forced to corrupt , and add to , before he can work it to his purpose ; for thus he translates it , according as strength and utterance was afforded to him from heaven : whereas word for word it is , in like manner he [ the president ] offereth up prayers to him [ god ] as he has power , that is , as fervently as he could : and so the same phrase a little before . of this see dr. comber , p. , &c. and as little does the passage in tertullian make for his purpose , which is , that the christians prayed , sine monitore quia de pectore ; which surely relates not to the praying extempore ; for what testimony was that of their loyalty , more than if they prayed by a form ; but his plain meaning is , they needed no prompter ( as the heathens ) but prayed heartily for the emperors , &c. as their offices shew'd . . he saith , that there was no liturgy in some churches , or in general use in the church , for above years , is manifest from socrates ; who saith , there were scarcely two christians found who used the same words in prayer , l. . c. . ans . ( . ) here he perverts again : for ( . ) socrates doth not say two christians , but two churches . ( . ) he doth not say , they used the same words , but the same manner . ( . ) the words of socrates do not infer what he would have ; for he saith , in summ among all sects you shall scarcely find two churches agreeing in the manner of prayer : which refers not to the words , but the ways , as before described , viz. lighting up candles , &c. ( . ) supposing it was to be understood of the words , what 's that to extempore prayer ? for they may not have the same words , when yet they may have forms . the historian's meaning is , that the churches had different forms of prayer , as well as different rites : so mornay speaking of the liturgies of the greek and latin churches ; tho in substance the service of these churches do agree , yet we must not think there was one and the same prescript form observed , and kept in them all . . he saith , some plead , that in the jewish church of old there were forms of prayer , besides those of divine inspiration ; but what was not , are all late composures . ans . . if there were forms of old in the jewish church , of divine inspiration , and those forms to be used ( as the scripture shews ) then it shews that forms may lawfully be used . . that the jews had set-forms of human composure , of ancient times , learned men agree : so mornay shews ; and that the first christians framed themselves after this manner of service . . nay , learned men observe , that forms were used in our saviour's time ; and yet he is so far from condemning them , that he attended their service , and composed a form like to theirs . so dr. lightfoot . so that we see he has failed throughout in his attempt of proving liturgies and set-forms an innovation . but i can tell what is an innovation ; and that is , to hold liturgies unlawful . chap. iv. it 's an apostacy in this age of light , to countenance or comply with the common-prayer-book worship . upon this his chief topick is : that good and learned men have born witness against the corruptions of the english liturgy , and chose to suffer rather than comply with it . ans . . there have been as good and learned men that have shew'd those not to be corruptions . . there have been several of his learned and good men , who he saith , chose rather to suffer , than sin , by complying with the liturgy , that have shew'd those corruptions not to be a sufficient reason for separation : so mr. bradshaw , mr. nicols , &c. . they were so far from refusing communion for them , that the old nonconformists ordinarily and constantly used the common-prayer-book in their publick ministrations ; as mr. ball , one of them , declares , tryal , p. , . . all of them testified against the brownists , and against a separation from the church . it was ( saith mr. baxter ) the parish-churches that had the liturgy , which mr. jacob the father of the congregational party wrote for communion with . the same i may say of mr. bradshaw , dr. ames , and other nonconformists , whom the congregational brethren think more favourable to their way . in the close , our author offers some farther objections from the false and corrupt doctrine he pretends to find in the liturgy . ( . ) as , that it 's certain by god's word , that children baptized dying before they commit actual sin , are undoubtedly saved : this , saith he , savours of pelagianism . ans . i don't understand the falseness , or pelagianism of it . it 's certain by god's word , that of such is the kingdom of god , and so they must be capable of it . if capable of it , it must be upon gospel terms ; but what terms they are capable of but baptism , i understand not . ( . ) that there are two sacraments necessary to salvation ; which implies a double error , viz. that the sacraments are necessary to salvation ; and that there are more sacraments of the new-testament than two . ans . i don't see wherein is the first error , if he had truly represented it ; for it 's said in the catechism , two sacraments generally necessary ; that is , that they are a duty belonging to all persons that are capable of it ; where there are persons to baptize , and a congregation to communicate with ; and therefore it 's not said absolutely , but generally necessary . as for the latter ▪ a sacrament is not a scripture-word , but a term of art , and so hath been variously used and applied ; and therefore to set out what it means , the church has defined what a sacrament is , and then shew'd there are but two : and so this phrase is used to distinguish it from any other so called ; and that then none but these two are generally necessary to all christians . ( . ) the book saith , some sins are deadly , as if the popish distinction of sins into mortal and venial , were a sound distinction . ans . how can that be , when fornication , which is called deadly in the liturgy , in the church of rome is ordinarily accounted a venial sin ; and when the distinction between mortal and venial ( as used in the church of rome ) is so contrary to the doctrine of the church of england ? it 's plain that our church means thereby no other than heinous . ( . ) it 's said , christ has redeemed all mankind . ans . the scripture saith , god will have all men to be saved ; and that christ died for all , &c. . he argues farther , that a stinted liturgy , is opposite to the spirit of prayer , eph. . . ans . ( . ) if so , then the spirit will not communicate it self in a liturgy , or stinted form of prayer , contrary to the sense of all sober divines . so dr. owen : supposing , saith he , those who make use of , and plead for forms of prayer , especially in publick , do in a due manner prepare themselves for it by holy meditation , &c. i do not judge that there is any such evil in them , as that god will not communicate his spirit to any in the use of them . ( . ) if so , then almost all churches in the world for these years , at least , to this day ( as mr. baxter allows ) have been without the spirit of prayer . ( . ) if so , then we cannot lawfully communicate in , or with a stinted liturgy , which has yet been approved by all reformed churches , as mr. ball saith ; and mr. norton saith it's lawful to embrace communion with churches , where such forms in publick worship are in use . ( . ) as for eph. . . that we are to pray with all prayer ; why is that not possible by a liturgy , when there are in it supplications , prayers , and giving of thanks ? . he le ts pass the argument , from the mischief of a prescript liturgy , and so will i pass what follows from the trivial , unintelligible , and dirty reflections of it . for he knows we can match his fidler with stories of some of those that have been eminent the other way , and could argue upon the sinfulness of unpremeditated and conceived prayer . . he saith , mr. cotton speaketh weightily , in saying , it 's unlawful to bring ordinarily any other book into the publick worship of god , besides the book of god. a. i know no difference between reading and reciting in this case ; and i have heard mr. cotton used a form of prayer in the pulpit . if he did not , yet all the nonconformists in former times did , as far as ever i could learn. to close all ; he undertakes to answer an objection , that good men were the first collectors and publishers of the liturgy , and died martyrs . this he endeavours to answer ; and yet when it 's to serve his own cause , it 's a considerable argument . thus saith he before , the corruptions of the liturgy have been born witness against by good men ; and his father , a holy man , suffered much for his nonconformity , and what not . now surely , if this sort of arguing is good for them , it 's good for us . but he replies further , . all persons employed in it , were not good men , as day bishop of chichester . he was a dissembling hypocrite , pretending to be a protestant , but afterwards shew'd himself to be a papist . a. here he betrays gross ignorance , or somewhat worse . for tho day was one of the bishops imployed for compiling the service-book at first , anno . yet at that time he was for transubstantiation , and solitary masses , and against having the service in the vulgar tongue . and when the next review was , which was . when cranmer wrote to bucer about it , it does not appear that day was concerned ; nay , rather that he was against it , for he refused to set his hand to the book , before it was enacted by a law ; and was afterward turn'd out of his bishoprick , and depriv'd . but to say all in a word , what was this dissembling hypocrite to those who were truly pious men , and acted faithfully according to the light they had ? as our author acknowledgeth . . he saith , good men chang'd their minds , so did ridley and cranmer . a. both gross mistakes . for archbishop cranmer took upon him to defend the common-prayer , ministration of the sacraments , and other rites and ceremonies , when in prison . and bishop ridley , a little before his martyrdom , in a letter to his friend , saith , this church had of late the whole divine service , all common and publick prayers , framed to the true vein of holy scripture . and again , after his condemnation , writing an answer to grindal , concerning knox's peremptory exceptions against the service-book ; i grant , saith he , a man ( as he is ) of wit and learning , may find apparent reasons ; yet i suppose he cannot soundly by the word of god so disprove any thing in it . . he saith , others were much troubled at the service-book ; as bishop hooper , and mr. rogers at home ; and calvin , bucer , martyr , bullinger , &c. abroad . so alasco , and knox , and the first reformers in scotland . a. as for hooper's dissatisfaction , it was not at the liturgy , but the episcopal vestments ; in which also he at last complied . and as for bucer's mind , and pet. martyr's , the english reader will find it in the history of the reformation , p. , . and calvin to the english exiles at frankford , declares against a rigorous opposition , and was pleased that he retained moderation in this case . as for alasco and knox , whatever they objected against the liturgy , yet both had their publick offices , and forms of prayer . . he saith , in queen elizabeth's time the bishops made the common-prayer-book in several things worse , and more intollerable , than it was in the days of king edward . a. . and i hope he will confess in many things better . . why those prayers , &c. were left out , he may see in the history of the reformation , p. , , . the reason of which has been before justified . . there could be no great alteration to the worse , if that was all that he mentions ; and however is nothing to us , when the rubrick of the communion is restored . and now , that he may end as he begun , as he would have our service-book come from popery ; so he will have it , that time will discover that some , who pretend zeal for the common-prayer-book , are carrying on a design for rome . and time has discovered , that some of those who pretended zeal against the common-prayer , carried on a design for rome , and helped them forward in it , or stood as it were neuters ; and that the liturgy has not so much a tendency that way , as separation . the world saw it in the late reign , and found that the church that uses the liturgy , was a bulwark against popery ; and when those that were against the liturgy , either basely complied , fawn'd upon it , or cowardly were silent . the second question . q. . what reason have you to scruple the lawfulness of laying the hand on the book , and kissing the book in swearing ? to this he answers , . we do not find in the scripture the lord's servants were wont to swear after this manner ; we read of lifting up the hand , &c. which is a natural sign of worship . a. . we find in scripture , that they were wont to put the hand under the thigh in swearing : and thus the same abraham that lift up his hand , required his servant to swear , by putting his hand under his thigh , gen. . . and so jacob made his son joseph to use the same ceremony when he swore , gen. . . now what natural sign of worship was in this rite ? . since we find different rites us'd , it 's a sign that practice of the lord's servants is to be no rule to us in this matter ; but that we are to govern our selves by the custom of the place where , and the people among whom we live , if there be nothing in it self unlawful . . he saith , and seems to allow it , that the romans of old , and italians , and spaniards , use to lift up the finger when they swear solemnly . now i conceive lifting up the finger is no natural sign of worship . and if it had any signification , i know no reason why the germans may not lift up three fingers ; to intimate , they invoke the sacred trinity , which he saith , he cannot justify . nor why we may not lay the hand upon , and kiss the book , in token of belief of it , and of our acting according to it , and of our being judged according to it . for the word of god doth not prescribe in such cases . . he answers , laying the hand on the book is a symbolizing with popish idolaters , and superstitious jews . a. . it 's not a symbolizing with papists as such ; since there are papists that use other ceremonies in swearing , as he saith , the italians , spaniards , and germans do . and therefore , if this be a reason , as we must not lift up the fingers , because they do so ; so we must not lift up the hand , because that is not to be done , but we must lift up the fingers too . . if it was customary among the jews to produce the law in giving an oath , i see no reason to condemn it ; and so know no hurt to observe it . they used also to adjure persons , and our saviour readily answers to it , when thus call'd upon . . he replies , kissing in a religious way , is a gesture of adoration . and he closes it , this is clearly to worship a book ; and so to give unto a creature that honour which is due to god alone . and before he saith , so help you and the contents of this book ; is not much better than when the papists say , so help me god , and these holy evangelists , which is gross idolatry . a. that kissing may be a token of adoration , when the thing kiss'd is an object of adoration , is acknowledged . but it 's not a token of adoration , when the thing kissed is not an object of adoration . thus kissing the calves , and an image , is an act of adoration , because the object is an object of adoration ; but kissing the book is not , because a book is no object of adoration . if it be asked , why then is the book kissed ? i say , it 's in token of reverence , as it 's the book of god ; and which , if i so kiss every time i read it , it 's surely far from being idolatry . and that it is so , appears from what follows , so help me god , and the contents of this book : which is in different ways , god by his grace , and the contents of this book by their instruction ; the one as the efficient , the other the instrumental cause . and thus without doubt it 's meant in the old form , so help me god , and these holy evangelists , that is , the gospel wrote by them ; as the name of moses is given in scripture to his writings . so that in this sence it 's neither idolatry in them , nor any thing like it in us . and we may as lawfully kiss the book , as lift up the hand , since neither of them are prohibited by god's law ; and so being indifferent in themselves , we may act as the case requires . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e history of antinomians ▪ in the preface . notes for div a -e trial of the grounds of separ . ● . . p. . cor. . , . a survey of the book of common-prayer ; an. . p. . espenceus de adorat . eucha . l. . c. . * of the mass , l. . c. . † censur . . . de cultu . lat. l. . c. . mass . l. . c. . so mornay mass . l. . p. . vol. . , , . discourse of prayer , p. . sacrileg . desert . p. , &c. apol. ● . . see clerk● collect. of lives , p. . burnet's reformat . part . p. . and num. . ibid. p. ▪ p. . fox's acts and monuments , fol. . fox's acts and monuments , vol. . p. . vide dr. taylor . fox martyr . p. . vide burnet , p. &c. . epist . and . and . that of alasco , printed anno . and that of knox at middelb . . the difference between the church of england, and the church of rome in opposition to a late book, intituled, an agreement between the church of england, and church of rome. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the difference between the church of england, and the church of rome in opposition to a late book, intituled, an agreement between the church of england, and church of rome. williams, john, ?- . the second edition. [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : mdclxxxvii [ ] attributed to williams by wing and nuc pre- imprints. added extra t.p. "imprimatur. october th, . h. maurice". advertisement: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- agreement between the church of england and church of rome. catholic church -- controversial literature. church of england -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - simon charles sampled and proofread - simon charles text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the difference between the church of england , and the church of rome . in opposition to a late book , intituled , an agreement between the church of england , and church of rome . the second edition . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crow n in st. paul's church-yard . mdclxxxvii . imprimatur . october th , . h. mavrice . the difference between the church of england , and the church of rome . the author of a book newly published , called , the agreement between the church of england and church of rome , saith , there has been of late a great cry , that the clergy of the church of england , are now the chief , if not the only opposers of popery , and defenders of the protestant religion : and therefore , to put a check to the insulting talk of our clergy ( who would be thought the only champions against popery ) 't is become necessary in the present juncture to emit such an essay as this , to shew an agreement between the church of england and rome ; and that the controversy lies only between the church of rome , and the protestant dissenter . this i confess , is an expedient of expedients ; and as it 's necessary for the relief of those who are so successfully beaten out of their late pleas of misrepresentation , that they sullenly declare , vntil that be yielded , they 'l not dispute : so it may be necessary in this present juncture , for the charming that adder , which has yet been deaf to all the arguments of flattery , interest and fear ; and to put an end to that answering , replying , rejoyning and sur-rejoyning , which for some months he saith , both sides have been employ'd in . for if there be an agreement in opinion between both churches , there will be no further occasion for disputing between them ; and if the only opposers of popery , the clergy of the church of england , are convinced of it , there will be no further disputing nor opposition : since those between whom the controversy then only lies , viz. the church of rome , and protestant dissenter , are it seems upon terms of mutual cessation . but now , left those of the church of england , that after all the complaints made against them for misrepresentation , will not grant any such thing properly , and in a strict sence , ( and 't is likely not in any sence ) should be as obstinate and hard to be convinced in this case ; therefore to put it out of dispute , ( if he be to be credited ) he has with some clearness demonstrated the agreement of opinion between the church of england and rome , to be exact and full . and if demonstration , and clearness of demonstration , will not do it , nothing will. but it 's some mens way to talk most of infallibility , self-evidence , and clearness of demonstration , when they are farthest from it ; and i began presently to suspect our author's credit , when i found him to shift his ground , as if he did distrust his own demonstrations . as for instance , . he had no sooner began to demonstrate this exact and full agreement of opinion ; but by way of prevention , he declares , he would not incumber his discourse with a catalogue of agreements in the great doctrines of christian religion , and matters of opinion ; but would confine himself to matters of government and worship , which chiefly concerns mens practices . how ! demonstrate the agreement of opinion , and yet forbear medling with matters of opinion ! to undertake it , and then to except the thing he undertakes ! and then to confine himself to matters of government and worship , as if there were not as much reason to shew an agreement in doctrine , as practices ; or that matters of government and worship were not also matters of doctrine ! . when he seems to come to the point he confines himself to , viz. government and worship ; yet he fails again , for it 's only in some parts of worship , which he ventures to say that the agreement will be found exact and full . as one sensible , that tho there is nothing in the liturgy and prayers of the church of england , ( which he instances in ) as to the matter of them , but what every christian may allow , and so what the pope may as well as ( he saith ) did approve ; yet , that their missal and breviary contain such prayers to the saints , and for souls departed , &c. as can be by no other figure made to agree with the worship and prayers used in the church of england , than one part of a contradiction can be reconciled to the other . . it 's further worthy of our observation , that the agreement he pretends to prove , is not from the avowed doctrine of either church , but by some quotations he produces from two or three particular authors , on the part of the church of england ; and from such as on their own side , are rejected by the governing part of their church . so for instance he saith of the church of england , they are the avowed principles of some of the clergy , and late writers . and when he undertakes for the romish church , he tells us . that a great , if not the greatest part , grant to the pope but a primacy , for the sake of catholick concord , &c. for proof of which , he appeals to the councils of constance and basil , and the priviledges of the gallican church . and yet the acts of those councils were reprobated in succeeding councils ; and so far as concerns this case , were utterly disallowed , as bellarmin saith . and of what little authority the gallick priviledges have been accounted at rome , there needs no more evidence than the case of de marca , as it 's represented by this author so that let his quotations ( which he pretends to be very just in ) be admitted ; yet his argument from thence , for an exact and full agreement , as to this matter , amounts to this only : some of the church of england are for a primacy for concord-sake , and some of the church of rome are for no more ; therefore the agreement betwixt the church of england and rome , is very exact and full in those points . and if this be his way of demonstration , it might to as good purpose be shewed , that there is also in several points , this kind of agreement between those that ( he saith ) the controversy only lies between , viz. the church of rome , and the protestant dissenter . . when he offers at a demonstration from these particular authors , he attempts not to prove it so much from what they say , as from what he himself infers from it . so much he acknowledges ; for when he had charged dr. sherlock to have found out a divine institution for the popes primacy , ( this being so gross , as he could not father it upon him , but he should soon be detected ) he brings himself off with this , this i confess , the doctor doth not expresly carry any further than the combinations of a national church and primacy , that is , he says no such thing . . when he doth find out some things in which the churches are agreed , they are such things as the church of england agrees with the ancient , and most other churches in , viz. episcopacy and a liturgy ; and it had been to the like purpose , if he had also shewed their agreement in the great doctrines of christian religion . and yet , even here he fails again ; for he that concludes , in a word , the agreement between the english clergy , and the romanist , about the immediate divine right of episcopacy is so full , &c. doth before acknowledg that ordination by presbyters is granted in the church of rome to be valid and regular , and that all those that hold the supreme jurisdiction of the pope , over the whole catholick church visible , do hold the divine right of bishops to be but mediate , [ mediante papa . ] so that he is gone from an agreement of churches to an agreement between persons ; from a full agreement in opinion , to an agreement in government and worship ; from worship , to some parts of worship ; from demonstrations , to inferences , and framed propositions of his own ; from an agreement at last , to a disagreement . and now we may look back with some comfort , to his bold offer , and clear demonstration at the beginning , when he saith , the author hath with some : clearness demonstrated the agreement of opinion between the church of england - men , and the church of rome , to be so exact and full , that if the government should so design , it were but dictum factum , according to their doctrine ; and a cassandrian peace might be patch'd up presently with rome . he advances , as if he were a kind of plenipotentiary ; but it may be suspected , he that has this way of demonstration , is not like to be very fortunate in the negotiation . thus much shall suffice for our author's way of demonstration , and his attempt to shew the agreement between the church of england , and church of rome ; leaving a fuller answer to some of his particular discourses , to an abler pen. but , yet there remains another part toward a just state of the controversy , and that is ( as he well observed ) to let the world know how far these churches differ , as well as wherein they are agreed : but that was a province he had no mind to prosecute ; as being , tho more to the purpose , yet not so much to his design . for certainly , he that will demonstrate the agreement to be full and exact , must either suppose there is no difference ; or if there be , that the difference is not considerable enough to hinder the agreement . but if there be a difference , and the difference in points diametrically opposite and irreconcilable , it is to no purpose to shew their agreement ( were it so ) to be full and exact in others . and that this is the case , and the disagreement far greater than the agreement , i shall endeavour to prove , and that not from an author or two , or far-fetched consequences , and forced interpretations , and dubious expressions ; but from sufficient authorities , and the avowed principles of both churches . such are the articles , the catechism , the homilies and liturgy of the church of england . such again , are the councils ; more especially , the council of trent , the catechism ad parochos , the rhemists annotations , the missal and breviaries ; according to which , and the like , a papist represented , ( as the mode of speaking has been of late ) doth believe . in order to which i shall premise , . that there are some articles which both churches do in express terms agree in , called by our author , the great doctrines of religion , viz. art. . of the holy trinity ; [ and so , how socinians can subscribe the articles of the church of england , ( as this author affirms ) i understand not . ] art. . of the word , or son of god ; art. . of the going down of christ into hell ; art. . of the resurrection of christ ; art. . of the holy ghost ; art. . of the old testament ; art. . of the three creeds ; art. . of good works ; art. . of sin after baptism ; art. . of obtaining eternal salvation only by the name of christ ; art. . of ministring in the congregation ; art. . of the unworthiness of ministers ; art. . of baptism ; art. . of excommunicate persons ; art. . of christian mens goods ; art. . of a christian mans oath . against these the jesuit johan . roberti , hath little or nothing to object in his small tract purposely written in opposition to our articles . but of these articles it is to be observed , there are some which each party differs as much from the other in ( when they come to explain themselves ) as if there had been no agreement in terms . thus it happens in articles , d , th and th ; as shall afterwards in part be shewed . . there are other articles , wherein both churches do agree in the sence , tho they differ in terms ; or that are not so much controversies between church and church , as between private doctors in each church . of this opinion is a learned forreigner of the reformed religion , about the matter contained in articles , the th and th , of free will ; and of predestination and election . of the former , he saith , the difference that our adversaries will object between them and us , upon this point of free-will , is only imaginary , and a meer cavil . of the latter , he concludes , since we agree in the fundamentals of this doctrine ( as we have already set forth ) ; and that our dissent is but with a few of their doctors , it would not be very hard ( i should think ) to find out such a bias of temperament , drawn from the word of god , in proposing of these opinions , and in terms so proportioned to their sublimity , as all humble and moderate spirits would find sufficient for their satisfaction . . there are other points which are matter of liberty , and left undetermined in the church of england ; and so she doth receive into her communion , as well those that deny as affirm . but on the contrary , the church of rome hath determined several points of this nature to be matters of faith ; and anathematized those that do not so receive them . thus they are accursed by the council of trent , that say , we are formally justified by the righteousness of christ [ the only formal cause of our justification being the justice of god ; as it s there declared , cap. . ] or that we are justified by the alone imputation of christ's righteousness : or that shall say , justifying faith is nothing else than a trust or confidence in the divine mercy , forgiving sins for christs sake , &c. in which , and the like , unless the church of england will curse those whom she doth bless , and cast out of her communion such as she receives into it , she can no more be reconciled to the church of rome , than in those other points that for the matter of them are held and declared by her self to be false and erroneous . . there are articles which the two churches do in whole , or in part , so differ in , that the doctrine of the church of england cannot be the doctrine of the church of rome ; nor the doctrine of the church of rome be the doctrine of the church of england . such are most , if not all , of these following articles ; viz. art. . of the sufficiency of the holy scriptures for salvation : art. . of original sin : art. . of the justification of man : art. . of works before justification : art. . of works of supererogation : art. . of christ alone without sin : art. . of the church : art. . of the authority of the church : art. . of the authority of general councils : art. . of purgatory : art. . of speaking in the congregation in such a tongue as the people understandeth ; art. . of the sacraments ; art. . of the lords supper : art. . of the wicked which eat not the body of christ : art. . of both kinds : art. . of the oblation of christ upon the cross : art. . of the marriage of priests : art. . of the tradition of the church : art. . of the homilies : art. . of the consecration of bishops and ministers : art. . of the civil magistrates . these , besides several others which our articles do not expresly mention , ( but are commonly the received principles of our church ) are the inconcileable points ; and which all the wit and charity in the world can no more thoroughly reconcile , than light and darkness . how far this is true , and demonstrated to be so in the following sheets , i shall leave to the consideration of every intelligent reader . in which i have proceeded with care and impartiality from point to point ; laying down first the doctrine of each church from unquestionable authorities , for my own justification ; and then for the ease of the reader , i have summ'd it up , and set each in opposition to the other . from all which i doubt not , but whatever friendship may be maintained betwixt the members of both churches , as we are fellow-subjects , yet it will be evident , that there is no possibility of agreement between them in matters of religion , or of making one church of what are so manifestly two. it 's upon the last sort i am now to proceed ; and the first of which in order , is the sixth article of the church of england . the difference between the church of england , and rome . the sixth article of the church of england . of the sufficiency of the holy scripture for salvation . holy scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation : so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man , that it should be believed as an article of the faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . in the name of the holy scripture , we do understand those canonical books of the old and new testament , of whole authority was never any doubt in the church . the names and number of the canonical books , genesis , &c. and the other books ( as hierom saith ) the church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners ; but yet doth not apply them to establish any doctrine . such are these following , the third book of esdras , the fourth book of esdras , the book of tobias , the book of judith , the rest of hester . [ and the fourteen books commonly called apocrypha . ] all the books of the new testament , as they are commonly received , we do receive and account them canonical . the twentieth article of the church of england . of the authority of the church . although the church be a witness , and a keeper of holy writ ; yet as it ought not to decree any thing against the same , so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation . homily the first , or an exhortation to the reading and knowledg of holy scripture . there is in the scripture , whatsoever is meet for all ages and sorts of men . these books ought therefore to be much in our hands , in our eyes , in our ears , in our mouths , but most of all in our hearts . homily second , or an exhortation , &c. surely none be enemies to the reading of god's word , but such as either be so ignorant , that they know not how wholesome a thing it is ; or else be so sick , that they hate the most comfortable medicine should heal them : or so ungodly that they would wish the people still to continue in blindness and ignorance of god. the church of rome . the council of trent . the holy and general synod of trent considering , that all saving truth and instruction of manners , is contained in books written and traditions not written , ( which received from the mouth of christ himself , by the apostles , or from the apostles , the holy spirit dictating , delivering as it were from hand to hand , have come even to us ) following the examples of the orthodox fathers , doth receive and regard with the like affection of piety and reverence , all the books , of the old and new testament , as also those unwritten traditions pertaining to faith and manners , dictated by christ , as it were by word of mouth , or by the holy ghost , and preserved by a continual succession in the catholick church , and hath thought fit to add the index of the sacred books to this decree , lest it should be doubted which they are , that are received by the sacred synod . they are these following , the five books of moses , joshua , judges , ruth , four books of kings , two of chronicles , one of esdras , two of esdras ( called nehemias ) ▪ tobias , judith , hesther , job , the psalms , proverbs , ecclesiastes , canticles , wisdom , ecclesiasticus , isaias , jeremias , with baruch , ezekiel , daniel , the twelve lesser prophets , the two books of maccabees . the new testament , viz. the four evangelists , &c. and if any one shall not receive those whole books with all their parts , for sacred and canonical , according as they are wont to be read in the catholick church , and are contained in the ancient vulgar latin edition ; or shall knowingly and wittingly contemn the foresaid traditions , let him be accursed . so that the church of rome hath added to the canon of scripture ( truly and properly so called ) six whole books , viz. tobit , ecclesiasticus , wisdom , judith , the first and second of the maccabees , together with certain other pieces of baruch , esther , and daniel . mystical benedictions , lights , incensings , garments , and many other such like things , are of apostolical discipline and tradition . the ceremonies used in baptism were , without controversie , instituted by the apostles , such as salt , spittle , exorcisms , wax-candles , catechism . par. . cap. . § . , , , &c. [ see below articles th and th , of the church of england . ] furthermore , for the restraining all wanton wits , the synod doth decree , that no one ( depending on his own wisdom , in matters of faith and manners , belonging to the edification of christian doctrine , wresting the scriptures to his own sense ) dare to interpret the holy scripture contrary to the sense which holy mother church hath held , and doth hold ( to whom it belongs to judg of the sense , and interpretation of the holy scriptures ) or against the unanimous consent of the fathers ; altho such iterpretations should never be published . the index of prohibited books , with the rules made by the fathers of the tridentine synod , approved by the authority of pius iv. anno . seeing it is manifest by experience , if the holy bible be permitted to be read every where without difference in the vulgar tongue , that more prejudice than benefit doth redound from thence , through the rashness of men ; let it therefore be at the pleasure of the bishop or inquisitor , that with the advice of the parish-priest or confessor , they may grant the reading of the bible , translated by catholick authors , to such as they shall understand , will by such reading receive no prejudice , but an increase of faith and piety ; which license let them have in writing . but whosoever shall without such license presume to read , or have such bibles , he may not have the absolution of his sins before he has returned them to the ordinary . the same index being enlarged by sixtus v. and reviewed and published by order of clement viii . anno . there is added the following observation about the foresaid rule . it is to be considered about the above written fourth rule of pope pius iv. that there is no new power given by this impression and edition to the bishops , or inquisitors , or superiors of regulars , of granting a license to buy , read , or keep the bible published in the vulgar tongue ; seeing the power of granting such licenses of reading , or keeping vulgar bibles , or any parts of them , hath been taken away by the command and use of the holy roman church , and the whole inquisition : as also all summaries and historical compendiums of the said bibles , and books of holy scripture , written in any vulgar tongue , which truly is inviolable to be observed . so that the power of granting such licenses , and the liberty of reading the scripture in the vulgar tongue , is wholly taken away , and accordingly we are told it is so ordered by the general inquisition of spain . from all which we may observe , the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . holy scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation . . all saving truth is in books written , and traditions unwritten . . whatsoever is not read in scripture , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man to be believed as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . . the church doth receive and regard unwritten traditions with the like piety & reverence , as the books of the old and new testament . and if any one shal knowingly contemn those traditions , he is accursed . . in the name of the holy scripture is understood those canonical books of the old and new testament , of whose authority was never any doubt in the church . and the other [ the apochrypha ] the church doth not apply to establish any doctrine . . the books of scripture are , the five books of moses , &c. tobias , judith , wisdom , ecclesiasticus , baruch , the two books of maccabees , &c. and if any one shall not receive these whole books , with all their parts , for canonical ; he is accursed . . the scripture were intended for , and are to be read by all . . the scriptures ought not to be read by the vulgar . . the scriptures are useful for all . . if the bible is permitted to be read by all , more prejudice than benefit doth arise from it . . the church is a witness and keeper of holy writ . . it belongs to the mother church of rome , to judg of the sense and interpretation of scripture . the th . article of the church of england . of the old testament . the old testament is not contrary to the new ; for both in the old and new testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by christ , who is the only mediator between god and man , being both god and man. the council of trent . the saints reigning with christ do offer prayers to god for men , and it is good and profitable to invoke them . the most holy mother of god , by her intercession doth reconcile god to sinners ; she is the mother of mercy , and advocatress of the faithful . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . christ is the only mediator between god and man. the virgin mary and saints are mediators in heaven . see more , article . the th article of the church of england . of original , or birth sin. original sin standeth not in the following of adam ( as the pelagians do vainly talk ) but it is the fault and corruption of the nature of every man , that naturally is ingendred of the off-spring of adam , &c. the church of rome . the council of basil. we do define and declare , &c. the doctrine that declares the glorious virgin mary , to have been always free from original and actual sin , holy and immaculate , is to be approved , retained , and embraced by all catholicks , as pious and consonant to ecclesiastical worship , the catholick faith , right reason , and holy scripture ; and that for the future it shall be lawful for none to preach , or teach the contrary . the council of trent . this holy synod doth declare , that it is not its intention to comprehend in this decree concerning original sin , the blessed and immaculate virgin mary the mother of god ; but that the constitutions of pope xystus iv. of happy memory , are to be observed under the penalties therein contained , which it doth inforce . of the sense of these two councils in this matter , see joh. baptistae de lezana apol. pro immacul . concept . cap. . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . original sin is the fault and corruption of the nature of every person naturally ingendred of the off-spring of adam . so that none is excepted but our b. saviour . the virgin mary was free from original and actual sin. the th article of the church of england . of the justification of man. we are accounted righteous before god , only for the merit of our lord and saviour jesus christ by faith , and not for our own works and deservings . wherefore that we are justified by faith only , is a most wholesome doctrine , and very full of comfort , as is more largely express'd in the homily of justification . the first part of the homily of salvation . because all men be sinners , and therefore can no man by his own acts , words , and deeds , ( seem they never so good ) be justified , and made righteous before god : but every man is constrained to seek for another righteousness or justification , to be received at gods own hands , that is to say , the forgiveness of his sins : and this justification , or righteousness [ the forgiveness of our sins ] which we so receive of gods mercy , and christs merits embraced by faith , is taken , accepted , and allowed of god for our perfect and full justification . faith doth not shut out repentance , hope , love , dread , and the fear of god , to be joyned with faith in every man that is justified , but it shutteth them out from the office of justifying [ that is meritously as the homily shews . ] the third part of the homily of salvation . the meaning of this proposition , or saying , we be justified by faith in christ only , ( according to the meaning of the old ancient authors ) is this , we put our faith in christ , that we be justified by him only that we be justified by gods free mercy , and the merits of our saviour christ only , and by no vertue or good works of our own . the church of rome . the council of trent . justification is not only the remission of sins , but the sanctification and renovation of the inward man , from whence a man of unjust is made just . if any one shall say , that men are justified , either by the only imputation of christs rightousness , or by the alone remission of our sins , excluding the grace and love which is spread in their hearts by the holy ghost , and doth inhere in them ; or that the grace by which we are justified , is only the favour of god ; let him be accursed . it s call'd our righteousness , because we are justified by it inhering in us . if any one shall say , that the wicked is justified by faith alone , so that he understands nothing else to be required , which may co-operate to obtain the grace of justification , and that it is not at all necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the motion of his own will ; let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . placeth the nature of justification in the forgiveness of sin. . saith , justification is not only the forgiveness of sin , but also that it is the sanctification of our natures [ confounding justification with sanctification . ] and that whoever holds the contrary ; is accursed . . saith , we are accounted righteous only for the merit of christ. . saith , we are justified by a righteousness inhering in us . the th article of the church of england . of good works . albeit that good works which are the fruits of faith , and follow after justification , cannot put away our sins , and endure the severity of gods judgment , yet are they pleasing and acceptable to god in christ , and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively faith , insomuch that by them a lively faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the fruit. homily of good works . and first of fasting . to have any affiance , or to put any confidence in our works , as by merie and deserving of them to purchase to our selves and others remission of sin , and so consequently everlasting life , is meet blasphemy of gods mercy , and great derogation to the blood-shedding of our saviour jesus christ. sermon of salvation , part . our own imperfection is so great , through the corruption of original sin , that all is unperfect that is within us . faith , charity , hope , dread , thoughts , words , and works ; and therefore not apt to merit or deserve any part of our justification for us . the church of rome . the council of trent . justified persons are esteemed to have truly deserved eternal life , if any one shall say , the good works of the justified are so the gifts of god , that they are not also the good merits of the person justified ; or that by the good works which are done by him , through the grace of god and merit of christ , he doth not truly merit an increase of grace , eternal life , and the obtaining of eternal life ( if he shall depart in grace ) and also an increase of glory ; let him be accursed . the rhemists annotations . this place convinceth for the catholicks , that all good works done by god's grace after the first justification be truly and properly meritorious , and fully worthy of everlasting life ; and that thereupon heaven is the due and just stipend , crown or recompence , which god by his justice oweth to the persons so working by his grace ; for he rendreth or repayeth heaven as a just judg , and not only as a merciful giver ; and the crown which he payeth , is not only of mercy , or favour , or grace ; but also of justice . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the best works are imperfect , and cannot endure the severity of god's judgment . . the good works of the justified , do truly merit eternal life . . to put any confidence in our works , and to think they merit everlasting life , is blasphemy . . whosoever saith they do not properly merit , is accursed . the th article of the church of england . of works before justification . works done before the grace of christ , and the inspiration of his spirit , are not pleasant to god , forasmuch as they spring not of faith in jesu christ , neither do they make men to receive grace , or ( as school authors say ) deserve grace of congruity . yea rather , for that they are not done as god hath willed , and commanded them to be done ; we doubt not , but they have the nature of sin. the church of rome . it was a common opinion in the church of rome , that works done before the grace of christ , do make men meet to deserve grace of congruity , or that man by the power of nature can dispose himself for justification . of this opinion were scotus , durandus , biel , cajetan , &c. council of trent . if any one shall say , that all works before justification , for whatever reason they are done , are truly sins , or deserve the hatred of god ; let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . works done before justification , do not deserve grace of congruity . . works done before justification , do merit it of congruity . . works done before justification , have the nature of sin. . whoever shall say , works done before justification are truly sins , is accursed . the th article of the church of england . of works of supererogation . voluntary works besides over and above god's commandments , which they call works of supererogation , cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety . for by them men do declare that they do not only render unto god , as much as they are bound to do , but that they do more for his sake , than of bounden duty is required ‡ whereas christ saith plainly , when ye have done all that are commanded to you , say , we are unprofitable servants . second part , of the sermon of good vvorks . which sects and religions in the church of rome , had so many hypocritical and feigned vvorks in their state of religion ( as they arrogantly named it ) that their lamps ( as they said ) run always over , able to satisfie , not only for their own sins , but also for all their benefactors , brothers and sisters of religion , as most ungodilly and trustily they had perswaded the multitude of ignorant people ; keeping in divers places , as it were marts or markets of merit , being full of their holy relicks , images , shrines , and vvorks of overflowing abundance , ready to be sold. the church of rome . the catechism . in this the goodness and clemency of god is to be praised , who hath granted to our weakness , that one may satisfie for another , &c. and such as are endued with divine grace , can pay in the name of another , what is due to god. rhemists annotations . the works which we do more then precept , be called works of supererogation ; and whereby [ that is from what was abovesaid ] it is also evident against the protestants that there be such works . this place proveth plainly , that the fastings and satisfactory deeds of one man , be available to others . yea , and that holy saints or other vertuous persons , may in measure and proportion of other mens necessities and deservings , allot unto them , as well the supererogation of their spiritual works , as those that abound in worldly goods may give alms of their superfluities to them which are in necessity . we infer most assuredly , that the satisfactory and penal works of holy saints suffered in this life be communicable and applicable to the use of other faithful men , and to be dispensed according to every mans necessity and deserving , by them whom christ hath constituted over his family , and hath made the dispensers of his treasures . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . that men may do more for gods sake , than of bounden duty is required , cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety . . that men may do works of supererogation , and more than is commanded . . that any may be able not only to satisfie for their own sins , but also for the sins of others , is a most ungodly doctrine . . that what they do more than is commanded , may be allotted to others , and which such may have the benefit of . the th article of the church of england . of christ alone without sin. christ in the truth of our nature was made like unto us in all things , sin only except , from which he was clearly void , both in his flesh , and in his spirit , &c. but all we the rest ( although baptized , and born again in christ ) yet offend in many things ; and if we say we have no sin , we deceive our selves , and the truth is not in us . the church of rome . the council of trent . if any one shall say , that any one can avoid all sins , such also as are venial , in the whole course of his life , except by special priviledge from god , as the church doth hold concerning the blessed virgin ; let him be accursed . the rhemists . our lady had so much grace given her ; that she never sinned , not so much as venially , in all her life , the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . christ alone is without sin , but all the rest of mankind offend in many things , none being excepted . the virgin mary is excepted , having never sinned so much as venially . the th article of the church of england . of the church . the visible church of christ is a congregation on of faithful men , in which the pure word of god is preached , and the sacraments be duly ministred according to christs ordinance , in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same . as the church of jerusalem , alexandria , and antioch , have erred : so also the church of rome hath erred , not only in their living , and manner of ceremonies , but also in matters of faith. § . of the church . the visible church is where the word of god is preached , and the sacraments be duly ministred , in all things of necessity requisite . the church of rome . the th general council of lateran . the sacred doctors have affirmed , that the vnity of the church doth consist in two things . . in the conjunction of the members of the church one with another . . in their order to one head , the vicar of christ , according to the saying of the apostle , not holding the head. the catechism of the council of trent . of the notes of the true church . the first note is , that it be one. and it is called one , as there is one lord , one faith , one baptism . there is one governour , the invisible , christ ; the visible , who ( being the lawful successor of peter , prince of the apostles ) doth possess the roman chair . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . the notes of a true church are the pure word preached , and the due ministration of the sacraments . the necessary note of the true church is the being united to the bishop of rome . § . of the falibility of the church of rome . the church of rome hath erred , as well as other churches , in living , ceremonies , and faith. the church of rome hath erred in ceremonies . the common-prayer book . of such ceremonies as be used in the church , and have had their beginning by the institution of man , some are put away , because the great excess and multitude of them hath so increased in these latter days , that the burden of them was intolerable . this our excessive multitude of ceremonies was so great , and many of them so dark , that they did more confound , than declare and set forth christs benefits unto us . furthermore , the most weighty cause of the abolishment of some ceremonies was , that they were so far abused , partly by the superstitious blindness of the rude and unlearned , and partly by the unsatiable avarice , &c. the d part , of the homily of place and time of prayer . they have prophaned and defiled their churches with heathenish and jewish abuses , with images and idols , with numbers of altars , too too superstitiously and intolerably abused , with gross abusing and filthy corrupting of the lord 's holy supper , the blessed sacrament of his body and blood , with an infinite number of toyes and trifles , of their own devices , to make a goodly outward shew , and to deface the plain , simple , and sincere religion of christ. the church of rome . the council of trent . the church hath appointed ceremonies , as mystical benedictions , lights , incensings , garments , and such like , that the majesty of so great a sacrifice might be recommended , and the minds of the faithful be excited , &c. if any one shall say , that the ceremonies , garments , and external signs , which the catholick church doth use in the celebration of mass , are rather icitements of impiety , than helps to piety ; let him be accursed . if any one shall say , they are injurious to the holy spirit , that give some virtue to the holy chrism of confirmation ; let him be accursed . the catechism . the sacrifice of the mass hath many , and those very remarkable and solemn rites ; none of which is to be esteemed needless sand vain . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the ceremonies in the church of rome , were for their multitude , an intolerable burden . . the ceremonies used are many , but solemn , and for the majesty of worship . . they do more confound , than set forth christs benefits , and do deface the plain and sincere religion of christ. . they do recommend the worship , and excite the minds of the faithful . . they are toyes and trifles . . none of them are needless and vain ; but have a virtue in them . . they do prophane , and defile the churches where they are used . . whosoever shall say , that they are incitements of impiety , is accursed . see articles th . and th . the church of rome hath erred in matters of faith. the d part , of the homily concerning the holy ghost . if ye will compare the notes of a true church , with the church of rome , as it is presently , and hath been for the space of nine hundred years and odd : you shall well perceive the state thereof to be so far wide from the nature of the true church , that nothing can be more ; where is then the holy-ghost , which they do so stoutly claim to themselves ? where is now the spirit of truth , that will not suffer them in any wise to err ? &c. it is but a vain brag , and nothing else . the church of rome . the council of trent . the holy synod delivering that sound and sincere doctrine , which the catholick church being taught by jesus christ himself , and the apostles , and by the holy spirit suggesting all truth from day to day to her , hath retained , and will preserve to the end of the world ; doth straightly charge all the faithful of christ , that they dare not after this , believe or teach otherwise , concerning the holy eucharist , than is explained and defined in this decree . the catechism . the church cannot err in delivering the discipline of faith and manners . the rhemists annotations . by this promise we are assured , that no heresies , or other wicked attempts , can prevail against the church builded upon peter , which the fathers call peter's see , and the roman church . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the church of rome hath erred in matters of faith. . the church of rome cannot err in matters of faith. . the pretence of the church of rome to infallibility is nothing but a vain brag . . the church of rome is guided by the holy spirit from day to day , and cannot err . the th . article of the church of england . of the authority of the church . it is not lawful for the church to ordain any thing that is contrary to god's word written , &c. wherefore , although the church be a witness and keeper of holy writ , yet as it ought not to decree any thing against the same : so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation . the church of rome . the council of constance . altho christ hath instituted , and did administer the sacrament of the eucharist in bread and wine ; yet this nowithstanding , the authority of the sacred canons , and the approved custom of the church , is to be preserved , that it be not received after supper , &c. and likewise , that altho the sacrament was received in both kinds , in the primitive church , yet the custom is reasonably introduced , that the laicks receive in one kind , &c. and we do command that no presbyter doth communicate the people in both . the council of trent . this holy synod being taught by the holy spirit , doth declare and teach , that lay-men are obliged by no divine precept to receive in both kinds , and that communion in one , is sufficient for salvation . furthermore she declares , that this power hath always been in the church , that in dispensing the sacraments ( the substance of them being preserved ) she might appoint and change those things which she doth judg more expedient for the profit of the receivers , and the reverence of the sacrament , &c. wherefore holy mother church acknowledging [ avowing ] this her authority , &c. for weighty and just causes doth decree , that the eucharist be communicated in one kind . . general council of lateran . we do altogether forbid presbyters , deacons and monks , to contract matrimony ; and we do determine , that marriages so contracted be disjoyned . the creed of pius th . in which it 's declared , that the church of rome is the mother and mistriss of all other churches . that the pope is successor of st. peter , and vicar of christ. that in the mass is a real transubstantiation of the elements into the body and blood of christ , &c. and that all things professed in that creed , are the catholick faith , out of which no man can be saved . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . saith , that it is not lawful for the church to ordain any thing contrary to god's written word . . the church of rome hath ordained things contrary to god's written word ; as , in requiring the sacrament to be administred in one kind ; in forbidding and disannulling the marriage of priests . . the church ought not to enforce any thing besides the written word to be believed for necessity of salvation . . the church of rome doth require things , at least , besides the word , to be believed as necessary to salvation : as that the pope is vicar of christ , and st. peter's successor ; that there are properly and truly seven sacraments instituted by christ , &c the . article of the church of england . of the authority of general councils . general councils may not be gathered together without the commandment and will of princes : and when they be gathered together ( forasmuch as they be an assembly of men , whereof all be not governed with the spirit and word of god ) they may err , and sometime have erred in things pertaining unto god. wherefore things ordained by them , as necessary to salvation , have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy scripture . the church of rome . council of trent . it belongs to the popes to call and direct general councils . the holy , vniversal and general synod of trent , lawfully gathered together in the holy ghost — taught by the holy spirit , which is a spirit of wisdom and vnderstanding , &c. doth declare and teach . the rhemists annot. to teach all truth , and preserve in truth and from error , the holy-ghost is promised and performed only to the church , and the chief governor and general councils thereof . the rhemists annot. the holy councils lawfully kept , &c. have ever the assistance of god's spirit , and therefore cannot err in their sentences and determinations concerning the same , because the holy-ghost cannot err , from whom ( as you see here ) jointly with the council , the resolution proceedeth . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . general councils may not be gathered without the command and will of princes . . it belongs to the pope to call general councils . . general councils have erred , and may err . . general councils called by the pope cannot err . the . article of the church of england . of purgatory . the romish doctrine concerning purgatory , pardons , worshipping and adoration , as well of images , as of relicks , and also invocation of saints is a fond thing , vainly invented , and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather repugnant to the word of god. § . purgatory . the romish doctrine concerning purgatory , is a fond thing , vainly invented , and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , &c. d part , of the homily concerning prayer . if we will cleane only unto the word of god , then we must needs grant , that we have no commandment to pray for them that are departed out of this world. for the scripture doth acknowledg but two places after this life . the one proper to the elect and blessed of god , the other to the reprobate . there is no place for repentance , nor yet for satisfaction . — as the scripture teacheth us , let us think , that the soul of man passing out of the body , goeth straightways to heaven , or else to hell , whereof the one needeth no prayer , the other is without redemption . the church of rome . the council of trent . seeing it hath been lately taught in this vniversal synod from scripture , &c. that there is a purgatory , and that the souls there detained , are helped by the suffrages of the faithful , but most of all by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar ; the holy synod doth command the bishops , that they take diligent care , that the sound doctrine concerning purgatory , be believed , taught , &c. if any one shall say , that the fault is so remitted to every penitent sinner , that there remains no guilt to be paid for in purgatory , before there be an entrance granted into the kingdom of heaven ; let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that the sacrifice of the mass ought not to be offered for the dead , &c. let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the romish doctrine concerning purgatory is a fond thing , vainly invented . . the doctrine of purgatory is necessary to be believed , and whosoever doth not believe it , is accursed . . it 's grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather is repugnant to it . . it 's taught from scripture . § . pardons . the romish doctrine concerning pardons is a fond thing , vainly invented , &c. the church of rome . rhemists annotations . to restore offenders to the churches sacraments and communion of the faithful , to pardon also , either all , or part of the penance enjoyned , or what debts soever man oweth to god , or the church , for the satisfaction of his sins forgiven , is called indulgence . . general council of lateran . we do grant remission of their sins , to whosoever do go to jerusalem , and shall efficaciously afford their help to oppose the infidels . . general council of lateran . the catholicks , that having taken upon them the character of the cross , shall address themselves to the destruction of hereticks , enjoy that indulgence , and are armed with the same priviledg which is granted to those that go to the relief of the holy land. the council of constance . the holy synod doth grant to every one that goes in the appointed procession , an hundred days of indulgence , &c. and to those that once a day say devoutly a pater noster , and ave-maria , for the safety of the emperor , days of indulgence , in the accustomed form of the church . the council of trent . indulgences are the heavenly treasures of the church . seeing the power of indulgences hath been granted by christ to the church , this holy synod doth teach , that the use of them is very wholesome to christian people , and doth command that they be retained in the church , and doth condemn them by an anathema that affirm them to be unprofitable , or deny that the church hath a power to grant them . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the romish doctrine concerning indulgence is grounded upon no warrant of scripture . . the power of indulgences was granted by christ. . it 's a fond thing , and vainly invented . . they are wholsome to christian people ; and whosoever shall affirm them to be unprofitable , is accursed . § . of images and relicks . the romish doctrine concerning the adoration , as well of images , as of relicks , is a fond thing , vainly invented , &c. d part , of the homily against idolatry . images and image worship , were in the primitive church ( which was most pure and uncorrupt ) abhorred and detested , as abominable and contrary to all true christian religion . d part , of the homily against images , &c. let such as fall down before images of saints , know and confess , that they exhibit that honour to dead stocks and stones , which the saints themselves , peter , paul , and barnabas , would not be given to them when alive , &c. in this they pass the folly and wickedness of the gentiles , that they honour and worship the relicks , and the bones of our saints ; which prove , that they be mortal men and dead , and therefore no gods to be worshipped , which the gentiles would never confess of their gods for very shame ; but the relicks we must kiss and offer to , especially on relicks sunday . the church of rome . the council of trent . the holy synod doth command all bishops , and others , whose office it is to teach , that they instruct the faithful , according to the use of the catholick and apostolick church , received from the first times of the christian religion , concerning the honour of relicks , and the lawful use of images . the synod doth decree , that the images of christ , the virgin mother of god , and other saints , are to be had and retained especially in churches , and that due honour and veneration be given to them , &c. and when we kiss them , uncover the head , and fall down before them , we do adore christ , and venerate the saints , whose similitude they bear . they are altogether to be condemned , and the church doth condemn them , that do deny the bodies of the saints and martyrs are to be venerated by the faithful ; and that affirm that veneration and honour is not due to their relicks , or are unprofitably honoured , &c. whosoever shall teach or think any thing contrary to those decrees , let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . image-worship was abhorred in the primitive church . . image-worship was received from the first times of christianity . . the romish doctrine of worshipping images and relicks , is a fond thing , &c. . the relicks of the saints are to be venerated ; & such as affirm they are not profitably honoured , are to be condemned . . it 's grounded upon no scripture , but is repugnant thereto . . whosoever shall teach or think they are not to be venerated , is accursed . § . invocation of saints . invocation of saints is a fond thing , vainly invented , and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , &c. d part , of the homily concerning prayer . there are certain conditions most requisite to be found in every one , that must be called upon , which if not found , our prayer doth avail us nothing . as , . that he to whom we pray , be able to help us . . that he will. . that he hear our prayer . . that he understand better than we our selves what we lack . if these things be to be found in any other , saving only in god , then may we lawfully call upon some other besides god. but what man is so gross , but that he well understandeth that those things are only proper to him which is omnipotent , and knoweth all things ? that is to say , only to god alone ; whereof it followeth , that we must call neither upon angel , nor yet upon saint , but only and solely upon god. d part , of the homily against idolatry . if answer be made , that they make such saints but intercessors to god , &c. that is , after the gentiles idolatrous usage , to make them of saints , gods , called , dii medioximi , &c. the church of rome . the council of trent . the holy synod doth command bishops and others , that have the office of teaching , that they teach the faithful , that the saints reigning with christ do offer prayers to god for men , and that it is good and profitable to invoke them ; and for the obtaining of benefits to have recourse by jesus christ , our only redeemer , to their prayers , aid , and help . but those that deny that they are to be invocated , or affirm that they do not pray for us ; or that the invocation of them , that they may pray for every one of us , is idolatry ; and is contrary to the word of god , and the honour of one mediator jesus christ , do think wickedly . if any one doth think or teach contrary to these decrees , let him be accursed . the catechism of trent . we do flye to the most holy mother of god , that by her intercession she may reconcile god to sinners . — we ought to call upon her , the mother of mercy , and advocatress of faithful people , that she may pray for us sinners , &c. of which no one can , unless impiously and cursedly , doubt . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . invocation of saints is a fond thing . . invocation of saints is good and profitable . . it 's repugnant to the word of god. . they who say it is contrary to the word of god , think wickedly . . to make them intercessors , is idolatrous . . whosoever shall say it is idolatry , thinks wickedly , and is accursed . the . article of the church of england . of ministring in the congregation . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . it is not lawful for any man to take upon himself the office , &c. of ministring the sacraments in the congregation , before he be lawfully called , and sent to execute the same . and those we ought to judg lawfully called and sent , which be chosen , and called to this work by men who have publick authority , &c. in necessity , any of the people may baptize , whether men or women , of whatsoever sect , jews , infidels , and hereticks ; if they intend thereby to do that which the catholic church intends to do . cathechism of trent , par . . cap. . sect. . the . article of the church of england . of speaking in the congregation in such a tongue as the people understandeth . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . it is a thing plainly repugnant to the word of god , and the custom of the primitive church to have publick prayer in the church , or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people . it seemed not fit to the fathers , that the mass be every where celebrated in the vulgar tongue . wherefore the ancient rite is every where to be retained . whosoever shall say , that the mass ought to be celebrated only in the vulgar tongue , let him be accarsed . council of trent sess. . cap. . and can. . see the homily of common-prayer , and the sacraments . the . article of the church of england . of the sacraments . there are two sacraments ordained of christ our lord in the gospel , that is to say , baptism , and the supper of the lord. those five commonly called sacraments , that is to say , confirmation , penance , orders , matrimony , and extreme auction , are not to be counted for sacraments of the gospel , being such as have grown , partly of the corrupt following of the apostles , partly are states of life allowed in the scriptures , but yet have not like nature of sacraments with baptism , and the lord's supper , for that they have not any visible sign or ceremony , ordained of god. the sacraments were not ordained of christ to be gazed upon , or to be carried about , but that we should duly use them . and in such only , as worthily receive the same , they have a wholesome effect or operation , &c. there shall be no celebration of the lord's supper , except there be a convenient number to communicate with the priest , &c. the church of rome . the council of trent . if any one shall say , that the sacraments of the new law , have not been all instituted by christ , or that they are more or fewer than seven , viz. baptism , confirmation , the eucharist , penance , extreme vnction , orders and matrimony ; or that any of these seven , is not truly and properly a sacrament ; let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that grace is not confer'd [ ex opere operato ] by the work done in the sacraments of the new law ; but that only faith in the divine promise is sufficient to obtain grace ; let him be accursed . the synod doth approve and commend those masses , in which the priest doth communicate alone ; forasmuch as they ought to be esteemed truly common ; partly , because the people do spiritually communicate ; and partly they are celebrated for all the faithful by a publick minister of the church . if any one shall say , that the masses , in which the priest alone doth sacramentally communicate , are unlawful , and so to be abrogated , let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . there are but two sacraments ordained of christ. . there are seven sacraments truly and properly . . the other called sacraments , are either corruptions or states of life ; but have not the nature of sacraments . . whosoever shall say , that any of the seven are not properly , and truly sacraments , is accursed . . the sacraments in such only as worthily receive the same , have a wholesome effect and operation . . the sacraments do confer grace ex opere operato , and whosoever denies it , is accursed . . the sacraments were not ordained to be gazed upon , but to be used . . masses in which the priest alone sacramentally communicates , to be approved . and whosoever doth say , they are unlawful , is accursed . the . article of the church of england . of the lord's supper . transubstantiation ( or the change of the substance of bread and wine ) in the supper of the lord , cannot be proved by holy writ ; but it is repugnant to the plain words of scripture , overthroweth the nature of a sacrament , and hath given occasion to many superstitions . the body of christ is given , taken , and eaten in the supper only , after an heavenly and spiritual manner . and the mean , whereby the body of christ is received , and eaten in the supper , is faith. the sacrament of the lord's supper , was not by christ's ordinance reserved , carried about , lifted up and worshipped . rubrick at the end of the communion service . do adoration ought to be done , either unto the sacramental bread and wine , there bodily received , or unto any corporal presence of christ's natural flesh and blood. for the sacramental bread and wine , remain still in their very natural substances , and therefore may not be adored ( for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians . ) and the natural body and blood of our saviour christ , are in heaven , and not here ; it being against the truth of christ's natural body to be at one time in more places than one . the church of rome . the th general council of lateran . the body and blood of christ are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar , under the species of bread and wine ; the bread being transubstantiated into the body , and the wine into the blood , by the power of god , &c. the council of trent . whosoever shall deny that the body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of our lord jesus christ , and so whole christ , is contained in the sacrament of the eucharist ; let him be accursed . whosoever shall deny that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body , and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood , the species only of bread and wine remaining : which conversion the catholick church most aptly calls transubstantiation ; let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that the body and blood of christ is only in use , not before and after ; and that the true body of christ doth not remain in the particles of it , reserved after the communion , let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that christ is not to be worshipped in the eucharist with divine worship , &c. or that he is not solemnly to be carried about , and shewed to the people that he may be worshipped , and that the worshippers are idolaters , let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that christ is only eaten spiritually , let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the sacramental bread and wine after consecration , remain in their very natural substances . . there are after consecration , only the species of the bread and wine in the eucharist ; and the substance of bread and wine is converted into the body and blood of christ. . the natural body and blood of christ are in heaven , and not here . . the body and blood of christ , together with his soul and divinity , is contained in the eucharist . . transubstantiation is repugnant to the plain words of scripture , &c. . whosoever shall deny transubstantiation , is accursed . . the body & blood of christ is in the supper only eaten after an heavenly & spiritualmanner . . whosoever shall say , christ is eaten only spiritually , is accursed . . the sacrament of the lord's supper was not by christ's ordinance reserved . . whosoever shall say , that the body and blood of christ is only in use , and remains not in what is reserved , is accursed . . the sacramental bread and wine may not be adored , for that is idolatry . . if any shall say , th● host is not to be worshipped , or that to worship i● is idolatry ; he is accursed . so that the church of england is upon this article under six anathema's at least , of the church of rome , as appears . the . article of the church of england . of the wicked , which eat not the body of christ in the use of the lord's supper . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . the wicked , and such as be void of a lively faith , altho they do carnally and visibly press with their teeth ( as st. augustine saith ) the sacrament of the body and blood of christ ; yet in no wise are they partakers of christ , &c. ill men receive the body and blood of christ , be they infidels , or ill livers . rhem. annot. in cor. . . the . article of the church of england . of both kinds . the cup of the lord is not to be denied to the lay-people . for both the parts of the lord's sacrament ought by christ's ordinance & commandment , to be ministred to all christian men alike . the church of rome . the council of trent . altho our redeemer hath instituted the sacrament in his last supper , and hath delivered unto the apostles in both kinds ; yet it is to be confessed , that whole and intire christ , and a true sacrament is taken under one kind only ; and furthermore , that as to the benefit of it , they are defrauded of no grace necessary to salvation , who receive only in one kind . the synod hath decreed , that it should be received for a law , that the sacrament be administred in one kind . whosoever shall say , that by the command of god , all the faithful ought to receive in both kinds , let him be accursed . whosoever shall say , that the holy catholick church hath not been induced for just causes and reasons , to order that lay-people , and priests not officiating , should communicate only under the species of bread : or that she hath erred therein ; let him be accursed . whosoever shall deny whole and intire christ , to be taken under one species , let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the cup is not to be denied to the lay-people . . the cup for just reasons is denied to the lay-people . . the ministration in one kind is but part of a sacrament . . whole christ and an whole sacrament , is under one kind alone . . the sacrament ought to be administred in both kinds , according to christ's commandment . . whosoever shall say , that the people ought to receive in both kinds by the command of god , is accursed . the . article of the church of england . of the one oblation of christ , finished upon the cross. the offering of christ once made , is that perfect redemption , propitiation , and satisfaction for the sins of the whole world , both original and actual , and there is none other satisfaction for sin , but that alone . wherefore the sacrifices of masses , in the which it is commonly said , that the priest did offer christ for the quick and the dead , to have remission of pain or guilt , were blasphemous fables , and dangerous deceits . the church of rome . the council of trent . because in this divine sacrifice , which is performed in the mass , the self-same christ is contained , and unbloodily offered , that offered himself once upon the altar of the cross ; the holy synod doth teach , that that sacrifice is truly propitiatory . it is rightly offered , not only for the sins , punishments and satisfactions , and other necessities of the faithful living , but also for the dead in christ , not as yet fully purged , according to the tradition of the apostles . if any one shall say , that there is not offered to god in the mass , a true and proper sacrifice , let him be accursed . if any one shall say , the sacrifice of the mass is not propitiatory ; and that it profits him that takes it only ; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and dead , for sins , punishments , satisfactions , and other necessities , let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that by the sacrifice of the mass , there is blasphemy offered to the sacrifice of christ upon the cross ; or that thereby any thing is derogated from him , let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the offering of christ as a propitiation , was but once . . in the mass there is a propitiatory sacrifice offered daily . . to say , that the priest offers for the living and the dead in the mass , is blasphemous fables , and dangerous deceits . . whoever denies that christ is offered for the living and dead , or shall say christ and his sacrifice is thereby blasphemed , is accursed . the . article of the church of england . of the marriage of priests . bishops , priests , and deacons , are not commanded by god's law , either to vow the estate of single life , or to abstain from marriage ; therefore it is lawful also for them , as for all other christian men , to marry at their own discretion , as they shall judy the same to serve better to godliness . d. part of the homily of good works . this pharifascal and papistical levell , of man's feigned religion [ in monastical vows ] which although it were before god most abominable and contrary to god's commandments , and christ's pure religion , yet it was praised to be a most godly life , and the highest state of perfection . the church of rome . . general council of lateran . we do altogether forbid presbyters , deacons , and monks , to have concubines , or to contract matrimony ; and according to the definitions of sacred canons , we do decree that marriages so contracted be separated , and that the persons ought to be brought to penance . the . general council of lateran . we do decree , that they who being in the order of sub-deacon , and above , have married wives , and had concubines , shall not have an ecclesiastical benefice ; for seeing they are the temple of god , &c. it is a shameful thing that they should serve beds and vncleannesses . the council of trent . if any one shall say , that matrimony confirmed , not consummated , is not dissolved by the solemn profession of religion of either party , let him be accursed . if any one shall say , that clerks in holy orders , or regulars , having solemnly professed chastity , may contract matrimony , and that so contracted it is valid , notwithstanding an ecclesiastical law , and vow , &c. and that all may contract matrimony , who perceive they have not the gift of chastity , though they have vowed it ; let him be accursed . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the marriage of priests is lawful . . priests ought not to marry ; and if they marry , are to be separated . . the marriage of priests may serve to godliness . . the marriage of priests is a defiling the temple of god. . to vow against marriage , especially upon the account of perfection and purity , is a feigned religion , and contrary to god's commandment . . vows against marriage do oblige , though the persons have not the gift of continency . the . article of the church of england . of the traditions of the church . it is not necessary that traditions and ceremonies be in all places one of utterly like , for at all times they have been diverse , and may be changed according to the diversity of countries , times and mens manners , so that nothing be ordained against god's word . every particular or national church hath authority to ordain , change , and abolish ceremonies , or rites of the church , ordained only by man's authority , so that all things be done to edifying . d part of the sermon of good works . let us rehearse other kind of papistical superstitions , and abuses , as of beads , lady-psalters , rosaries , purgatory , masses , stations , and jubilees , feigned relicks , and hallowed beads , bread , water , candles , &c. see before article , and . the council of trent . the holy synod doth receive and regard with the like affection of piety and reverence , the old and new-testament , and also those unwritten traditions dictated as it were by word of mouth by christ , and preserved by continual succession in the church : the matter and form of extream vnction ; mass for the dead ; the pronouncing the mass sometimes with a loud , at other times with a low voice ; mystical benedictions ; lights ; incensings ; garments ; and many other such like things , are from apostolical discipline and tradition . if any one shall say , that the rite of the roman church of saying some part of the canon of the mass in a low voice is to be condemned , let him be accursed . the catechism of trent . the shaving of the head like a crown , is from apostolical tradition . none of the rites in the mass are useless and vain . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . it is not necessary , that ceremonies ordained by man's authority be in all places alike , and such may be changed . . unwritten traditions are equally to be regarded as scripture , such are lights , incensings , shaving the head , &c. and so to be every where , and always retained . . lights , and other ceremonies of the romish church are superstitious , and abuses . . none of the ceremonies used in the mass , as lights and incensings , are useless and vain . the . article of the church of england . of homilies . the homilies contain a godly and wholesome doctrine , &c. the homilies charge the church of rome , with error , superstition , idolatry and usurpation . the . article of the church of england . of consecration of bishops and ministers . the book of consecration of arch-bishops and bishops , and ordering of priests and deacons , lately set forth in the time of edward the sixth , and confirmed at the same time by authority of parliament , doth contain all things necessary to such consecration and divering . and therefore , whosoever are consecrated or ordered , according to the rites of that book , or hereafter shall be consecrated or ordered according to the same rites . we decree all such to be rightly , orderly , and lawfully consecrated and ordered . the church of rome . council of trent . a sacrifice and priesthood , are so conjoyned by the ordinance of god , that both have existed in every law. from the very beginning of the church , there were the names of the following orders , the lesser , viz. acolythi , exorcists , readers , and door-keepers . the greater and sacred , viz. the subdeacon , deacon , and priest. rhemists annotations . whosoever taketh upon him to preach without lawful sending ; to minister sacraments , and is not canonically ordered of a true catholick bishop to be a curate of souls , &c. he is a thief and a murderer . so came in all hereticks , and all that succeed them in room and doctrine . it 's the common opinion of the members of the romish church of our nation , that our bishops , &c. are none . in the church of england , there are no bishops , no pastors , and so their's is no true church . the ministers of the church of england are no priests , because they want an essential part , which is to offer sacrifice , &c. of this mind were harding , stapleton , sanders , bristow , champney , &c. formerly . see mason's vindiciae eccles. angl. the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . besides bishops , there are but two orders , viz. priests and deacons . . besides bishops , and the four lesser orders , there were always three , viz. priests , deacons , and subdeacons . . arch-bishops , bishops , priests , and deacons are rightly , orderly , and lawfully consecrated and ordered in the church of england . . such bishops and priests as are consecrated and ordered in the church of england , are no bishops nor priests . the . article of the church of england . of the civil magistrates . the queen's majesty hath the chief power in this realm of england , and other her dominions , unto whom the chief government of all estates of this realm , whether they be ecclesiastical or civil , in all causes doth appertain ; and is not , nor ought to be subject to any forreign jurisdiction . the bishop of rome hath no jurisdiction in this realm of england . the d part , of the sermon of obedience . the usurped power of the bishop of rome , which he most wrongfully challengeth , as the successor of st. peter , is false , feigned and forged . the bishop of rome teacheth , that they that are under him , are free from all burdens , and charges of the common-wealth , and obedience toward their prince , most clearly against christ's doctrine , and st. peter's . he ought therefore rather to be called antichrist , and the successor of the scribes and pharisees , than christ's vicar , or st. peter's successor . st. peter doth not say , submit your selves unto me as the supream head of the church , neither saith he , submit your selves from time to time to my successors in rome ; but saith he , submit your selves to the king , the supreme head. the d . part of the sermon of obedience . wicked rulers have their power and authority from god , and therefore it s not lawful for their subjects to withstand them , although they abuse their power . the necessary doctrine and erudition for any christen man ; set forth by hen. . and compiled by cranmer , &c. subjects be bound not to withdrawn their fealty , truth , love and obedience towards their prince for any cause whatsoever it be ; ne for any cause they may conspire against his person , ne do any thing towards the hinderance , or hurt thereof , nor of his estate . d part of the sermon against wilful rebellion . the speedy overthrow of all rebels of what number , state , or condition soever they were , or what colour , or cause soever they pretended , is and ever hath been such , that god thereby doth shew that he alloweth neither the dignity of any person , nor the multitude of any people , nor the weight of any cause as sufficient for the which the subjects may move rebellion against their princes . see the oaths of allegeance and supremacy . the church of rome . §. . of the authority claim'd by the church of rome . . the roman church is the mother and mistress of all churches . so the th general council of lateran , can. . the council of trent , sess. . can. . &c. this is made an article of faith in the creed of pope pius the th . . the roman bishop is the vicar of god and christ , the successor of st. peter , and hath the supreme pastorship over the vniversal church . so the council of trent , sess. . de reform . cap. . sess. . cap. . &c. this is also an article of faith in the aforesaid creed . §. . of the exercise of this authority . . the church of rome doth take upon her to command sovereign princes . so it 's the phrase of their councils ; we do enjoyn princes , we do peremptorily require kings , &c. so the th general council of later . cap. , . the th general council of later . de pragmat . sanct. the council of trent . . she doth overrule what sovereign princes have commanded . so the council of constance : notwithstanding the safe conducts granted by emperors and kings , &c. yet , heretical wickedness may be enquired after , by a competent judg ; and the persons guilty , be punished ; altho they should come to the place of judgment considing in the safe conduct , and otherwise would not have come . . the church of rome hath excommunicated such sovereign princes as have not submitted to what she hath commanded ; and hath deposed such as have been thus excommunicated and continued refractory ; and absolved their subjects from allegiance to them when deposed . so the d. general council of lateran . we do forbid under an anathema , that any one presume to keep or maintain hereticks in their houses or land , or to exercise commerce with them . and if they shall dye in this sin , there shall no oblation be made for them . and let subjects know , that they are released from all debt of fealty and homage , and all obedience . the th general council of lateran . let secular powers , whatsoever offices they execute , be admonished , perswaded , and if it be necessary , compelled by ecclesiastical censure , that as they desire to be reputed and accounted faithful , so they would publickly take an oath for the defence of the faith , that they would endeavour in good faith , according to their power to destroy [ exterminate ] all hereticks marked by the church , out of the lands of their jurisdiction . but if the temporal lord being required and admonished , shall neglect to purge his land from this heretical filthiness , he shall be excommunicated by his metropolitan , and the other bishops of the province . and if he shall refuse to give satisfaction within a year , let it be signified to the pope , that he may forthwith denounce his vassals absolved from their allegiance , and expose his land to be possessed by catholicks ; who , having destroyed the hereticks , may possess it without contradiction , and preserve it in the purity of the faith , saving the right of the principal lord , whilst that he doth make no hindrance to it . nevertheless the same law is to be observed towards them who have no principal lords . the general council of lyons . ann. . in this , pope innocent the th deprived the emperor frederick the d , after this manner : we , after diligent deliberation had with the sacred council , do declare and denounce , that he is deprived of all honour and dignity , and by our sentence do deprive him ; and do for ever absolve them from their oath , who have sworn allegiance to him ; firmly forbidding by our apostolical authority , that any one from henceforward , obey him as emperor or king , &c. and let those to whom the election belongs , freely choose a successor in that empire . the council of constance . it is decreed , that all that should hinder the emperor sigismund from meeting the king of arragon , of what quality soever , though king , duke , &c. they be excommunicated , and deprived of all their secular honour and dignity . and in the bull of pope martin the th , read and approved in that council , all professors of the christian and catholick faith , the emperor , kings , dukes , &c. are required to expel all hereticks out of their kingdoms , and provinces , according to the canon , sicut ait , &c. that is , the abovesaid canon of the d lateran council . the council of trent . the emperors , kings , dukes , &c. and all temporal lords of what title soever , who shall grant a place for duelling among christians within their lands , should for that cause be deprived of the dominion of the city , castle , or place in which they permitted the duel to be . . the church of rome doth exempt the clergy from temporal jurisdiction . so the d general lateran council . because some laicks do compel ecclesiastical persons , and also bishops themselves , to appear before their judgment-seat , we do therefore decree , that such be separated from the communion of the faithful , who shall presume from henceforward so to do . the th general council of lateran . some laicks do too much usurp upon divine right , when they do compel ecclesiastical persons , holding nothing temporal from them , to take an oath of allegiance to them . but because , according to the apostle , the servant doth stand or fall to his own master , we do forbid by the authority of the sacred council , that such clerks be compelled to take this kind of oath to secular persons . see further the bull of pope leo the th , read in the th general council of lateran . and the council of trent , which doth ratify all canons , made in their favour . the opposition . the church of england . the church of rome . . the king hath chief power . . the pope hath power over kings , to excommunicate , depose , &c. . the king hath power over all persons . . ecclesiastical persons are exempted from secular jurisdiction . . the bishop of rome hath no power in the kings dominions : and the power he challengeth is usurpation . . the bishop of rome is the universal pastor . . the king is not to be resisted . . the pope can give power to resist sovereign princes , and can absolve subjects from their allegiance . as the opposition in this matter is evident betwixt church and church ; so we look upon the one to be no less the doctrine of the church of rome , than the other is the doctrine of the church of england . for . it 's notoriously manifest , that the church of rome hath both owned such principles , and proceeded according to those principles in excommunicating and deposing kings , in limiting their jurisdiction , and absolving subjects from their allegiance . . it is manifest , that the several branches of authority fore-recited , and claimed by that church , are grounded upon the canons of what they call general councils . and that all in the communion of that church are bound to own and receive these principles , is evident , since they are decreed by the same councils , and after the same manner as the doctrine of transubstantiation it self ; and so are equally to be received with it , by all the members of that church . thus far i have traced the disagreement between the church of england and rome , according to the order observed in the articles ; and i might proceed to shew the opposition between them in many other points ; such as the sufficiency of attrition with absolution ; the necessity of auricular confession ; the adoration of the cross ; the images made of god and the trinity ; the guardianship ascribed to angels and saints over places , professions , &c. the pilgrimages to images and relicks ; the miracles pretended to be wrought by them ; the religious states of life , and their vows of poverty and obedience ; their particular ceremonies in the mass and baptism , their limbus's , &c. but this will be too tedious , and indeed somewhat unnecessary , considering how evident it has been already made , not to say with some clearness demonstrated , that there is an irreconcilable difference between the two churches , about those points ( to use our authors words ) wherein the very life of popery consists , and the whole system of that religion is founded . and as now i may leave it to his skill to try , whether he can with a dictum factum , patch up a cassandrian peace , presently between them : so i shall leave it to the readers judgment , even those he calls the unwary readers of books , whether we have left us nothing but the name and shadow of a protestant church of england , as he affirms ; or whether the doctrine of the protestants be any where to be found , if not in the church of england . and for this purpose , i shall present the reader with the sum of what has been said upon this argument . a brief scheme of the difference betwixt the doctrine of the church of england , and the church of rome , as set forth in the foregoing treatise . sufficiency of scripture . the church of england teacheth . the holy scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation ; so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man , that it should be received as an article of faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation , p. . the church of rome holdeth . the holy scripture doth not contain all saving truth ; but there are certain traditions not written , which the church is to have recourse to for it , as well as the written books . and such traditions are to be received , and regarded with the like piety and reverence , as the books of the old and new testament . canonical books . the church of england teacheth . no books are to be received as canonical , but genesis , &c. that is , the books of the old testament , and the new. and , as for the books , commonly called apocrypha , tho the church doth read them for example of life , and instruction of manners ; yet she doth not apply them to establish any doctrine . the church of rome holdeth . the books commonly called apocrypha , viz. tobias , &c. are as canonical , and as truly the word of god , as the five books of moses , &c. and whosoever doth not so receive them , is accursed . scripture in a known tongue . the church of england teacheth . there is in scripture , whatsoever is meet for all ages and sorts of men ; and so the books of it ought to be much in their hands , eyes and hearts . and none are enemies to the reading of it , but such as are ignorant or ungodly , that would wish the people still to continue in blindness and ignorance of god , p. . the church of rome holdeth . if the scripture be permitted to be read every where in the vulgar tongue , more prejudice than benefit doth redound from it . and therefore , it 's fit that the people be deprived altogether of it , nor so much as suffered to have summaries , or historical abridgments of it . church authority . the church of england teacheth . the church , tho a witness and keeper of the holy writ , yet ought not to decree any thing against the same , nor to enforce any thing besides the same to be believed for necessity of salvation , p. . the church of rome holdeth . it belongs to the church of rome to judg of the sence of the scripture ; and it 's in her power to forbid receiving the sacrament in both kinds , tho christ so instituted and delivered it . the fallibility of the church . the church of england teacheth . as the church of jerusalem , alexandria and antioch , have erred : so also the church of rome hath erred , not only in their living , and manner of ceremonies , but also in matters of faith : so that their claim of infallibility is but a vain brag , and nothing else , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . the church of rome cannot err , being taught by the holy spirit , suggesting all truth from day to day . general councils . the church of england teacheth . general councils may not be gathered together , without the commandment and will of princes : and when gathered , may err , and sometimes have erred in things pertaining to god , p. . the church of rome holdeth . it belongs to the pope to call and direct general councils ; and being so gathered , they have ever the assistance of gods spirit , and so cannot err . christ the only mediator . the church of england teacheth . christ is the only mediator between god and man , being both god and man , in whom alone the conditions requisite in an object of worship , are to be found ; whence it followeth , that we must call neither upon angel nor saint , but solely upon him , as our mediator : and to make them intercessors to god , is after the gentiles idolatrous usage , p. , , . the church of rome holdeth . there are other mediators of intercession in heaven besides christ , such as angels and saints , and more especially the virgin mary , who is the mother of mercy , and advocatress of the faithful ; and it is good and profitable to invoke them , and to have recourse to their prayers , aid and help . and those that deny they are to be invocated , or affirm the invocation of them is idolatry , are accursed . original sin. the church of england teacheth . original sin is the corruption of the nature of every man , naturally ingendred of the off-spring of adam : and all offend in many things , christ only excepted , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . the blessed virgin is not comprehended in the decree of original sin , and never sinned so much as venially , in all her life . images . the church of england teacheth . image-worship was abhorred in the primitive church , as abominable , and contrary to all true christian religion : and to fall down before images , &c. is to give that honour to stocks and stones , which the saints themselves refused when alive , p. . the church of rome holdeth . the images of christ , the virgin mary , and other saints , are to have due honour given to them , by kissing them , uncovering the head , falling down before them , lighting up candles to them , &c. by which christ is adored , and the saints are venerated . relicks . the church of england teacheth . to worship and honour the relicks of saints , is to pass the folly and wickedness of the gentiles . the romish doctrine concerning worshipping and adoration of images and relicks is a fond thing , grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather repugnant to it , p. . the church of rome holdeth . the relicks of the saints are to be venerated . and all that hold the contrary , are accursed . purgatory . the church of england teacheth . there are two places only in the other world , the one proper to the elect and the blessed of god ; the other to the reprobate . and the souls of men passing out of the body , go to heaven or hell. and the romish doctrine concerning purgatory is a fond thing , vainly invented , and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather repugnant to it , p. . the church of rome holdeth . there is a purgatory or place of torment in which the souls of good persons , not sufficiently purged , have their sins expiated , and they thereby are prepared for the kingdom of heaven . and the souls , there detained , are helped by the masses , prayers , alms , and other good works of the living . and if any one shall say there is not such a place , or that there remains no guilt to be expiated by penitent persons in purgatory , or that those that are there are not helped by masses , &c. he is accursed . merits . the church of england teacheth . the good works are pleasing unto god , yet to put any confidence in them as by merit , and deserving of them to purchase to our selves or others remission of sin , and everlasting life , is meer blasphemy , and great derogation to the blood-shedding of our saviour jesus christ , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . justified persons truly deserve eternal life , and the good works of such are truly and properly meritorious , and are fully worthy of eternal life : and whosoever thinketh otherwise , is accursed . supererogation . the church of england teacheth . works of supererogation , or such as are over and above god's commandment , cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety ; and it 's an ungodly practice to make sale of them , and to perswade the people that thereby the sins of other men might have satisfaction made for 〈◊〉 , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . there are works of supererogation , which are done more than precept ; and a person endued with divine grace may satisfie for another , and pay in the name of another what is due to god ; and the value of such works is to be so disposed of for that purpose by such as christ hath made dispensers of his treasures . indulgences . the church of england teacheth . the romish doctrine concerning pardons is a fond thing , vainly invented , and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but is rather repugnant to it , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . the church hath a power from christ to pardon offenders , and whatever debts , here or hereafter in purgatory , a man oweth to god for the satisfaction of his sins , may be remitted by the indulgence of the church ; and whosoever saith that the church hath no such power , or that such indulgences are unprofitable , is accursed . prayers in a known tongue . the church of england teacheth . it 's a thing plainly repugnant to the word of god , and the custom of the primitive church , to have publick prayers in the church , or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people , p. . the church of rome holdeth . it 's fittest every where to have the mass celebrated in latin , or a tongue not understood by the people ; and it 's for that reason so injoyned . and whosoever saith it ought to be otherwise , is accursed . sacraments . the church of england teacheth . there are only two sacraments ordained of christ , viz. baptism ; and the supper of the lord ; and the other five commonly called sacraments in the church of rome , are not sacraments , being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the apostles ( as extreme unction , &c. ) partly are states of life allowed of in scripture ( as matrimony ) but have not the like nature of sacraments with the other , p. . the church of rome holdeth . the sacraments instituted by christ , are no fewer than seven , viz. baptism , confirmation , the eucharist , penance , extreme unction , orders and matrimony . and whosoever shall say , that they are more or fewer than seven , or that any of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament , is accursed . opus operatum . the church of england teacheth . the sacraments have a wholesome effect or operation in such only as worthily receive them , p. . the church of rome holdeth . the sacraments do confer grace , ex opere operato , by the work done ; and if any say otherwise , they are accursed . solitary masses . the church of england teacheth . there is to be no celebration of the lord's supper , except there be a convenient number to communicate with the priest , ibid. the church of rome holdeth . those masses are to be approved and commended , where the priest communicates alone : and if any one shall say such are unlawful , and to be abrogated , he is accursed . transubstantiation . the church of england teacheth . transubstantiation , or the change of the substance of the bread and wine into the very substance of the body and blood of christ , is repugnant to the scripture , and overthroweth the nature of a sacrament , p. . the sacramental bread and wine remain in their very natural substances : and the natural body and blood of christ are in heaven , and not here . the church of rome holdeth . there is a transubstantiation , or a conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body , and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood of christ ; and whoso denies it , is accursed . the species only of bread and wine remain in the eucharist ; and the body and blood of christ , together with his soul and divinity , and so whole christ , are contained therein . and whoso denieth it , is accursed . the body of christ. the church of england teacheth the wicked and such as be void of a lively faith , in no wise partake of christ , p. . and the body of christ is taken and eaten only after an heavenly and spiritual manner : and the mean whereby the body of christ is received and eaten , is faith , pag. . the church of rome holdeth . ill men receive the body and blood of christ , be they infidels , or ill-livers . christ is not only eaten spiritually ; and whosoever shall so affirm , is accursed . sacrament in both kinds . the church of england teacheth . the cup is not to be denied to the lay-people : for both the parts of the sacrament ought by christ's ordinance to be ministred to all , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . though christ instituted the sacrament in both kinds , yet it is to be administred in one : and whosoever shall say , that it ought by god's command to be received in both ; or that the church hath not for just reasons required it to be in one kind , &c. he is accursed . adoration of the host. the church of england teacheth . the sacrament of the lord's supper was not by christ's ordinance reserved , carried about , lifted up and worshipped : and no adoration ought to be done thereunto , p. . the church of rome holdeth . christ is to be worshipped in the eucharist with divine worship , and to be solemnly carried about , and to be shewed to the people , that he may be worshipped ; and whosoever doth deny this , or saith , that the worshippers are idolaters , is accursed . the sacrifice of the mass. the church of england teacheth . the sacrifice of the mass , in which its commonly said the priest offers for the quick and dead , to have remission of pain and guilt , are blasphemous fables , and dangerous deceits , p. . the church of rome holdeth . in the sacrifice performed in the mass , the self-same christ is contained and unbloodily offered , that offered himself on the cross ; and this sacrifice is truly propitiatory , and is rightly offered for the sins , punishments , and satisfactions of the living and dead . and if any one shall deny this , or say it's blasphemy , he is accursed . traditions and ceremonies . the church of england teacheth the burden of ceremonies in the romish church is intolerable for their excess and multitude ; and by reason of their obscurity they more confound than set forth christs benefit to us , and deface the plain , simple , and sincere religion of christ ; and as they are vain in themselves , so are abused to gross superstition , p. , . the church of rome holdeth . the ceremonies used in the mass , &c. are of apostolical tradition and institution , and which serve for the majesty of so great a sacrifice , and are for the exciting of the faithful . and tho they are many , yet none of them is to be esteemed needless and vain ; and if any one shall say that they are rather inticements to impiety than helps to piety , he is accursed . of the consecration of bishops , &c. the church of england teacheth . there are no other orders in the church than bishops , priests , and deacons . and these are rightly consecrated and ordered in the church of england , p. . the church of rome holdeth . there are seven orders in the church , bishops , priests , deacons acolythi , exorcists , readers , the door-keepers , sub-deacon , deacon and priest. those consecrated and ordained out of the church of rome are no bishops or pastors , but thieves and murderers , p. . priests marriage . the church of england teacheth . bishops , priests , and deacons may lawfully marry , and are not commanded by gods law , either to vow the estate of single life , or to abstain from marriage : and therefore the monastical vow of single life , accounted the highest state of perfection , is the leven of mans feigned religion , and abominable to god , p. . the church of rome holdeth . it is not lawful for bishops , priests , and deacons to marry ; and if married , they are to be separated , and to be brought to penance ; and if any one shall say , that such as have profest chastity may contract matrimony , or that such matrimony is valid , because they have not the gift of chastity , he is accursed . the supremacy . the church of england teacheth the king in all his realms hath supreme power in all causes whether ecclesiastical or civil . and the bishop of rome hath therein no jurisdiction , and can release none from subjection to their prince . for god alloweth neither the dignity of any person , nor the multitude of any people , nor the weight of any cause as sufficient for the which subjects may rebel , p. . the power the bishop of rome challengeth or successor of st. peter , is false and feigned . the church of rome holdeth the pope is the vicar of christ , successor of st. peter , and the supreme pastor over all the world. he may command sovereign princes , over-rule what they command , excommunicate and depose them , if they contradict his commands ; and absolve their subjects from allegiance , and exempt the clergy from their jurisdiction , p. , . lastly , the church of rome doth hold all things delivered , defined and declared by the sacred canons , and general councils , and especially that of trent , &c. and that this is the true catholick faith , out of which none can be saved , [ creed of pius ivth . ] finis . books lately printed for richard chiswell . the pillar and ground of truth . a treatise shewing that the roman church falsly claims to be that church , and the pillar of that truth mentioned by s. paul in his first epistle to timothy , chap. . vers. . to . the peoples right to read the holy scripture asserted . to . a short summary of the principal controversies between the church of england and the church of rome ; being a vindication of several protestant doctrines , in answer to a late pamphlet , intituled , [ protestancy destitute of scripture proofs ] to . two discourses ; of purgatory , and prayers for the dead . an answer to a late pamphlet , intituled , [ the judgment and doctrine of the clergy of the church of england concerning one special branch of the king's prerogative , viz. in dispensing with the penal laws ] to . the notes of the church , as laid down by cardinal bellarmin , examined and confuted . to . preparation for death : being a letter sent to a young gentlewoman in france , in a dangerous distemper of which she died . the difference between the church of england and the church of rome , in opposition to a late book , intituled , an agreement between the church of england and church of rome . a private prayer to be used in difficult times . a true account of a conference held about religion at london , sept. . . between a. pulton , jesuit , and tho. tennison , d. d. as also of that which led to it , and followed after it . to . the vindication of a. cressener , schoolmaster in long-acre , from the aspersions of a. pulton , jesuit , schoolmaster in the savoy , together with some account of his discourse with mr. meredith . a discourse shewing that protestants are on the safer side , notwithstanding the uncharitable judgment of their adversaries ; and that their religion is the surest way to heaven . to . six conferences concerning the eucharist , wherein is shewed , that the doctrine of transubstantiation overthrows the proofs of christian religion . a discourse concerning the pretended sacrament of extreme vnction , with an account of the occasions and beginnings of it in the western church . in three parts ; with a letter to the vindicator of the bishop of condom . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e preface to the agreement . page : preface . page . page . page b . preface . page , , , . de concll . l. . c. . page , &c. preface . page , , . page . page , . page . preface . page . a papist misrepres . and represented , introduct . agreement . p. . page . ecclesiae angl. basis impostura , luxemb . . apology for the protestants , done out of french into english , . part . cap. . p. , . sess. . can. , , , &c. art. . art. . sess . decret . de canon . script . council trent , sess. . cap. . sess. . decretum de edit . & usu sacr. libr. regula . . azorius instit. mor. l. . cap. . ff . quaeritur ; & ff . quaeres . art . sess. . de invocat . catech. trid. par . . cap. . ff . . art . . sess. . anno . sess. . art . . sess. . cap. . can. . cap. . can. . art . . sess. . cap. . can . annot. in tim. . . cor. . . and hebr. . . art . . see bishop vshers answer to a challange , chap. . sess. . cap. . art . . pars de sacram . paenit . ff . . luke : ver. . cor. . . annot. on cor. . . art . . sess. . can. . annot. on mar. . . art . . orat. archiep. spalat . par. . de . art. symb. ff . . n. . rubrick , of ceremonies , why some be abolished , &c. sess. . cap. . ibid. can. . sess. . can. . par. . cap. . de euchar. ff . . n. . sess. . init . par. . de . artic. symb. ff . . on matth. . . art . sess. . sess. . cap. . ibid cap. . cap. . art . . sess. . bulla resump . & decretum de resum . conc. sess. . init . & cap. . rhem. annot. joh. . . on acts . . art . . sess. . decret . de purgat . sess. . can. . sess. . can. . on mat. . . can. . can. . sess. . sess. . cap. . sess. . decret . de indulg . sess. . de invocat . sess. . de invocat . par. . cap. . ff . . art . . art . . art . . see the homily of common prayer and the sacraments . rubrick after the com. service . sess. . can. . can. . sess. . cap. . can. . art . . can. . sess. . cap. . and can. . cap. . and can. . can. . can. . can. . art . . art . . sess. . cap. . cap. . can. . can. . can. . art . . sess. . cap. . can. . can. . can. . art . . cap. . can. . sess. . can. . can. . art . . sess. . decret . de canon . script . sess. . cap. . sess. . cap. . and . can. . par. . cap. . ff . . cap. ff . . art . . art . . sess. . cap. . catechis . par . . cap. . ff . , . on joh. . . erastus senior preface . anno. . a paper in the vindication of ordination , &c. anno . art . . on th commandment . sess. . cap. . can. . de haereticis . sess. . sess. . sess. ult . decret . de reform . cap. . cap. . can. . sess. . sess. . de reform . cap. . agreement , preface . ibid. a sermon preach'd before the king at whitehall, on january , by john lord bishop of chichester ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preach'd before the king at whitehall, on january , by john lord bishop of chichester ... williams, john, ?- . p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the bishop of chichester's sermon before the king , janvary . . a sermon preach'd before the king at whitehall , on janvary . . by john lord bishop of chichester published by his majesty's special command . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the corner of warwick-lane in pater-noster-row . m dc xc vii . matth . xxiii . , , . behold i send unto you prophets , and wise men , and scribes ; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify , and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues , and persecute them from city to city : that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth , from the blood of righteous abel , unto the blood of zacharias , son of barachias , whom ye slew between the temple and the altar . verily i say unto you ; all these things shall come upon this generation . in this chapter our blessed saviour pronounces no less than eight dreadful woes against the scribes and pharisees for their gross hypocrisy ; and amongst the rest , for the pretended reverence they bore to the memory of the ancient prophets , whom their fore-fathers wickedly abused , persecuted , and killed ; so that they said , if we had been in the days of our fathers , we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets , v. . but our saviour shews , that if they had lived in those days , they would have acted in the same way ; since the same temper was existent in them , as had been heretofore in their fathers . so v. . ye are witnesses unto your selves , that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets . fill ye up then the measure of your fathers , for that ye are now in the way to : wherefore , behold i send unto you prophets , &c. and ye will do unto them as your fathers heretofore did unto those prophets , whose sepulchres ye now garnish , and whose praises ye celebrate . so that in the event , upon you will come the sorest judgments ; and it will be , as if all the righteous blood shed upon the earth , from the blood of righteous abel to the blood of zacharias , &c. were required of this generation . there is some doubt to be made concerning the zachariah referred to in the text ; for there were several of that name in scripture , as also in josephus the jewish historian . but this we may observe , that whoever he was , he was slain before the time that our saviour here so sharply inveighs against the jews ; for it is by him charged upon them as a thing past , whom ye slew . again , it was a story well known to that people , and a case very notorious ; and if so , as there was no case more notorious than that of zachariah the son of jehoiada ; so there was none that this character could agree to , but to him , who was slain in the court of the house of the lord ; or as it is here , between the temple and the altar . but then there are two or three difficulties remaining , one of which is , that zachariah , who is here called the son of barachias , is in the regal story said to be the son of jehoiada . in answer to which , we may observe from scripture , that it was common among the jews ( as among many other nations ) to give several names to the same person ; as solomon was called lemuel and jedidiah ; and especially where those names were of the same signification , as jehojakim and eliakim . and thus it is with jehoiadah and barachiah . . it was usual to give , or to have names given , upon some eminent service done by them , or some eminent blessing that befel them . so gideon had the name of jerubbaal given to him by his father joash , upon his breaking down the altar of baal : and jacob was called israel , because as a prince he had power with god and men . thus zacharias is here called the son of barachias , or ( as that name signifies ) the blessed of the lord , which was among them a term of honour and respect . and a name without doubt , as it was due , so was given to jehoiada in a more especial manner , because of his eminent piety , and of his zeal in advancing joash to the throne ; and for restoring the liberties and religion of that people , after they had both been invaded by the infamous practices of the idolatrous athaliah . he may for this reason well deserve the name of barachias , or the blessed of the lord. and then the aggravation of the sin was , that this zachariah martyr'd by them , was the son of that brave jehoiada , that patriot of their countrey ; and whom , without any regard to his ancestor , to his own quality , his message , or the place , they furiously rushed upon , and stoned him ( the punishment of blasphemers ) in the court of the lord's house , or court of the priests . a fact so heinous , that the jews say , his blood continully bubbled up , and was not expiated till the babylonish captivity , which was about two hundred and fifty years after . but if it was at this distance from the time of our saviour , how comes this instance of zacharias to be the last , as that of abel was the first ? i answer , because that blood was supposed to lye upon that nation till the captivity ; after which they were as averse to idolatry , as ever they were before addicted to it ; and therefore that sort of persecution ended with it . but if it were so that zacharias was the son of that jehoiadah , it seems very hard and unjust that this blood , and much more the blood of abel , and all the righteous blood shed upon the earth , should be required of that generation , as our saviour here affirms . for what was the blood of abel to them , who was killed by his brother cain , all of whose posterity perished in the deluge ? or how were they concerned in the blood of such righteous persons , as were slain in other parts of the earth , or even in that of zacharias , who , though killed by their ancestors , was slain above seven hundred years before ? i grant , this blood could no more literally be charged upon that generation , than they could be said to have been cotemporaries with those ages of abel or zacharias : but it is here thus represented , partly because they were of the same temper , and were acted by the like spirit of envy and hatred , as the murtherers of abel and zacharias , &c. partly it was as to zacharias , because the course of impiety in former ages was carried along ( though in a different way ) even to that age ; and lastly , because that what they were now agitating , and would shortly accomplish , would be a crime of such malignity , as would fill up the measure of their fathers ; and would determine in their ruin , ver . , . o jerusalem ! &c. behold your house is left unto you desolate . and it is as if he had said : ye think your selves clear of your fathers iniquity , forasmuch as ye garnish the sepulchres of those prophets whom they wickedly killed , and that ye are not idolaters and persecutors as they ; and say , if we had been in the days of our fathers , we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets ; but you will so far outdo them , that ye will kill and crucify those whom i shall send , and reject the last tender of divine mercy , and thereby bring upon your selves ruin as inexpressible , as irreversible . for think of all the blood of pious and just men , that has been shed through all ages of the world ; think of that of abel , and of zacharias , and all that ye can think of , and yet the case will hold no comparison with what ye will do , in persecuting , killing , and crucifying the prophets , and wise men , that shall be sent to you , and also him that sends them . and if the blood of abel cried for vengeance , and that of zacharias was required of your progenitors ; then what will not fall upon this generation ! it will be such as was not from the beginning of the creation ; it will be such as if all the blood of the prophets , and of righteous men from abel downward to that of zacharias , were required of you ; behold , i send unto you prophets , and wise men , &c. that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth ; verily these things shall come upon this generation . in discoursing upon which argument , i shall shew ; i. that it often happens to the best of men , to be opposed , and persecuted , and despitefully used in this world. ii. that this is consistent with the providence of god and his government of the world. iii. that in the sequel god doth right to his providence , and to their piety and virtue by extraordinary events . i. it often happens to the best of men to be opposed and evil-treated . i shall not go about to prove that which is matter of fact , and has been the constant observation of all ages more or less . we need not go farther for the confirmation of it than the instances of the text , abel and zacharias , and the rest of the righteous men upon record : or than the sad instance which this day sets before us ; when a person as eminent for his piety , as his character and dignity , was treated , as if he had been the off-scouring of all things , and was , as many of the righteous men of old , persecuted and slain . and the causes are as observable as the fact , and of which there are as many , as there are prejudices and misunderstandings , contrary passions and interests . as long as there are ambition and pride , envy and malice , covetousness on one hand , or expensive vices on another . as long as there are contrary habits , which are the principles that rule in all mankind , there will be enmities and oppositions ; and if virtue , and religion , and the best of men are against persons in these circumstances , they will then retaliate the injury , and be against virtue , and religion , and the best of men. for then it is not what the thing is in it self , but what it is as to them ; and it often is not because it is religion , or virtue , or the best of men , that they thus despitefully use them ; but because they are opposite to their interest , or their inclination , or sometimes are to their reproach . then it is that the pharisees are for condemning our saviour , when they thought that the romans would come and take away both their place and nation . and especially is this of the more fatal and pernicious consequence , if this spirit be edged on by a false and mistaken zeal ; and religion is pretended to by some to face an evil design , and is believed by others to be concerned in it , and is in danger to suffer . for then this doth , as they will have it , justify and establish the contention , and make it to be necessary . then they think it laudable and meritorious even to kill , when , in their opinion , it is to do god service . it is then a cause fit to venture their own life in , and a cause that will oblige them to take away that of another : nay , it will even serve to break through the laws of nature it self , and will have them to put those to death , whom nature would otherwise teach to preserve , and with the hazard of their own life to save from it . thus it was foretold by our saviour , the brother shall deliver up the brother to death , and the father the child , &c. by these and the like means , the best of men too often fall under the heavy hand of violence and oppression ; and if we were then to judge of them by the usage they meet with , they must have been the worst of mankind . a case which hath tempted some to question , and others to deny a providence . but this without reason , if there be nothing in these proceedings and events , but what is consistent with the divine oversight and government of the world. ii. which is the next thing to be discoursed of : the providence of god is seen in preserving all things in the same state and order as at the first establishment : and as he ordinarily leaves natural causes , and necessary agents to act according to their proper nature , and to keep to the law and the season , at the first appointed and prescribed ; so he generally leaves voluntary and intelligent beings to follow their own inclinations , and to chuse , and resolve , and act as they shall see meet . and if it happens that such agents proceed upon wrong principles , or mistaken measures , it is no more than if in meer natural causes there are some preternatural accidents happen , through the concourse of different parts of matter together . and if sometimes good men are left to their own precipitance , as josiah , when he was not to be disswaded from attacking pharaoh-necho ; and wicked men are left to their own perverseness and obstinacy , as pharaoh ; or to their pride , as the haughty assyrian ; and they perish in it : this in the voluntary world is no more extraordinary , than when there is seed-time and harvest in the natural world ; that is , that each acts according to the nature they are of , and the condition they are in . and it is no imputation upon providence , if in this way good men , or the best of men , fall sometimes into hard circumstances , when causes are left to their own tendency , and are ( as it were ) in their own power . for nature is but nature ; and to keep nature in its course , is an act of providence ; to keep stated and permanent beings in their station and order , and transient in a continued succession , and voluntary in their own power and liberty ; is a special fruit of the divine providence . but i confess , if there were no more , and that providence were a meer supervisor , it would not be the providence worthy of so divine a power , nor so worthy of that veneration we owe to it . there is therefore a more noble part of it behind , and that is , that though god generally keeps to the laws he has given , and preserves the world as he made it ; yet he upon occasion interposes , and doth as well govern the world as preserve it ; and as he can when he pleases stop the current of the violent ocean for a passage to his people , and make the stars in their courses to fight against their enemies ; so he doth govern the wills and passions of men , and turns them as the rivers of water , to or from their purpose and design , or promotes or hinders their design from success , as he thinks fit . and if it be asked , why he doth not interpose in cases that seem to us to be of the greatest consequence , and which the welfare of a nation , the safety of his people , the good of his church , turn upon ; why , for example , he doth not prevent the sufferings and oppressions of good men ? i answer , because it is for a greater good , sometimes to themselves , sometimes to the publick , by making them an example of patience , charity , and constancy ; sometimes for the advantage of the church , and for the propagation of religion , and always for his own honour and service . need we a greater instance of this than the sufferings and death of our blessed saviour , with which seemingly , the cause seemed to be lost ; we trusted that it was he which should have redeemed israel , said the despairing disciples . and his enemies thought they had prevented all after-growth of that doctrine he taught , when they had slain him , and made sure the sepulchre by sealing the stone , and setting a watch. but his resurrection baffled all their endeavours , and shewed how consistent this his crucifixion was with the divine providence , proceeding from the hand and counsel of god. thus it happened , in a lower degree , with the enemies of our government , church , and religion , who thought all at an end , when they had cut down the defender of it . but we know what the event was , confusion to themselves , and , in process of time , a glorious deliverance and restoration to our ancient government , liberties , and established religion . and if god hath these noble ends in prospect , and thus brings good out of evil ; the objection is foreclos'd , and the mouth of all gainsayers must be stopp'd . thus it ordinarily is ; and if in some cases this be not so evident , and the judgments of god prove a great deep ▪ and too deep for us to fathom , it is no more an objection against a providence , than it is an argument that a child is not a rational creature , because at the present we cannot find in it the exercise of a human understanding . in many cases there is faith and expectation , and the farther success and events of things , which we are to defer our judgment to . it is sufficient god doth put forth such acts of a divine power in some special cases and instances , as shall enforce the perversest , the most inconsiderate , and the most insolent of mankind , the pharaoh's and magicians , the adonibezek's and the nebuchadnezzar's , to confess , verily there is a god that judgeth in the earth . and this will bring us nearer yet to the subject of this day , in the next head : which is , iii. that god doth in very eminent instances , cases , and events , do right to his providence , and to the righteous men that frequently suffer and meet with the hardest usage in this world. i shall not enlarge upon this argument , but confine my self to what is intimated in the text , when the punishment of antecedent crimes is transferred to , and falls upon successors ; and an after-age , or ages , suffer for the foregoing , whether personal , domestical , or national ; this is intimated here , that upon you may come all the righteous blood , &c. but more expresly is it in that clause , whom ye slew ; which the greek particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being in the singular , refers immediately to zacharias ; for it is not said the blood of abel , and of all other righteous men throughout the world , which they shed , as it is of zacharias whom ye slew . which shews , that it is in another relation that they stood in to zacharias than they did to abel ; and that was , because zacharias was slain by their fathers , and which they owned to have for some ages been imputed to their nation before the captivity ( as has been beforesaid ) . the imputation of one man's , or one age's sin , in the punishment of it to another ; and that princes have suffered for the people * , and people for their princes † , and children for their fathers , and an after-generation for a fore-going , has been owned by all ; the heathens are full of it , and the scriptures often appeal to it ; and therefore this was a part of their solemn confessions ; and their fathers iniquity , as well as their own , was either confessed , or disclaimed . but it concerns us to look somewhat further into this argument , for the use it may be of . and in discoursing upon it , in prosecution of which i shall consider , . what those sins are , whose punishment above others is thus transferr'd . . the case of persons , or nations , with respect to those sins . . what is to be done by way of relief and remedy . as to the former , there are two sorts of sins , personal and relative ; personal are such as in their effects pass no farther than the person , and respect not others , when all the hurt is as to himself , bating only what it may be in the example ; and then where the sin rests , there rests the punishment ; and the soul that sinneth , it shall dye ; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , — and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself alone ; as it is said in the prophet . but now where the sins are relative , and respect others , and which they are damnified by , then the punishment is farther dilated and extended , and so it falls upon the person and the posterity , as god the supreme lawgiver doth direct . i acknowledge that there is one sin , viz. that of idolatry , to which a threatning of this kind is annexed , as we find it in the second commandment ; though it doth not immediately affect others ; but being it so directly struck at the foundation of all religion , and more especially that of the jews ( whose constitution was a theocracy , immediately under god ) there was this terrible sanction added to it , to make persons the more cautious of offending . but otherwise the sins so threatned , and for which persons in succession were punished , were the sins that the interests of others , or the publick , were concerned in and damnified by ( as has been said ) ▪ the reason of which seems to be , because as to personal vices , the offenders shall answer for them in another world ; where every man shall bear his own burthen , and give an account of himself to god. but those sins which respect others , and which the welfare and peace of societies are prejudiced by , they ( besides the punishments in reserve in the next life ) shall here be punished for : and that they may be deterred from such practices , the threatning involves their posterity with them ; than which nothing , generally , more awes mankind . and especially is this more to be observed in those cases , which the laws of men cannot , or do not , reach , or the executive power in a government is too weak to punish . i shall give an instance or two of this kind , omitting others , viz. . notorious injustice ; the oppressing of others that are not able to help , or right themselves . in this case the providence of god doth often ( i dare not say , always ) concern it self : so that if restitution be not made , either the person himself shall see it moulder away before his eyes , or is snatched away from it , as the fool in the gospel , with a , this night , — and then whose shall all these things be which thou hast provided ? or suppose the estate thus acquired be turned over entire to his heir , some secret worm goes along with it , that like jonah's gourd it withers away , and he is exposed to all the miseries of an indigent life ; and ends , perhaps , where the father began . the observation is not new , nor rare ; it was proverbial among the heathens , as is well known , de male quaesitis vix gaudet tertius haeres ; and no nation but can answer it in their own language . . another instance is that of blooddsheding , or murther . the life of man is easily taken away , and what any desperate person may command ; and therefore when nothing is more valuable , or that the world in succession more depends upon , almighty god by a special and early law took care for the security of it . gen. . . whoso sheddeth man's blood , by man shall his blood be shed . for which no satisfaction was to be allowed , and nothing less than blood was estimated as an equivalent for it , where it was discovered ; and where it was not , it was to lie upon the place , till it was some way or other expiated , and as far as could be , there was an atonement made . this was the case of unknown homicide under the law , when the elders of the city , next to the slain , were required to wash their hands over the heifer , and to say , our hands have not shed this blood , neither have our eyes seen it ; be merciful , o lord , unto thy people israel , and lay not innocent blood unto thy people's charge , and that blood shall be forgiven them . so shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you , deut. . . for blood was said to defile the land , numb . . . from hence it appears that innocent blood was reputed to lie upon the land till an expiation was made . the proper expiation was the blood of the guilty himself , where-ever he was to be found ; and in that case there was no commutation , no substitution , no sacrifice allowed , but life was to go for life , according to the law , numb . . , . whoso killeth any person , the murtherer shall be put to death , — ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murtherer who is guilty of death , but he shall be surely put to death . if he was not discovered , then the course before spoken of , in killing the heifer , and using the rites prescribed on that occasion , was to be taken : and in either of those cases , the guilt went no farther . it was not then imputed to the nation , it lay wholly on him that committed the fact ; and who in the secret providence of god was to answer for it . but if it were discovered , and the murtherer was suffered to escape without that condign and personal punishment required ; then besides what he himself should account for to god , the supreme judge , the charge fell upon the place or the people , and they were to answer to god for it . and this translation of the guilt is so much the more observable , as the fact is aggravated by the quality of the person suffering , and thus used ; or by the relation the person or persons offending are in . it was so here , when they were righteous men , and prophets that were slain , as abel and zacharias : and when it was a national act , as was the killing of zacharias , in which fact there was a concurrence of all qualities and degrees , as you may see it , chron. . , . and this was above all manifest in the case here tacitly referr'd to , which is the crucifixion of our saviour ; and which that infatuated people fixed the guilt of upon themselves by an indelible imprecation , when they cried out , his blood be on us and our children , matth. . . and there is somewhat like this , in the fact which gave the sad occasion to this day 's assembly ; it was heinous in it self , aggravated by the quality of the person , and too great a concurrence in the guilt of it , though not so great as to make it universal , or a national crime . god forbid it should ever be so in the effects of it . . but this leads me to consider the case ; and that is twofold . ( . ) of those that are in the same state with their ancestors , and are either guilty of the same facts , or are of the same temper with them . as is the case of the jews represented by our saviour , who though not idolaters as their forefathers before the captivity , were yet of the same rancorous temper ; and would in fact be guilty of the same persecution of righteous men as they ; and so they might well be called their children , whose measure they were hastening to fill up . this is a case all must acknowledge , and is agreeable to the common sense of mankind . ( . ) there is the case of those , that though descendants from such as have been guilty of great crimes , yet are not involved in them ; and so in reason may be thought not obnoxious to any punishment for their sakes , or for the sake of what has been done by progenitors . and the case is resolved in favour to such , ezek. . , . the soul that sinneth shall die , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , &c. according to the ancient law given to that people , deut. . . the fathers shall not be put to death for their children , neither shall the children be put to death for their fathers : every man shall be put to death for his own sin . but here we are to observe , that the stress lies upon that , that the son shall not be put to death for the father ; this was a standing law they were to keep to , and which none but almighty god , the great lawgiver , could reverse , as he did , only in some special cases , such as that of dathan and achan , numb . . . josh . . . but it is not to be denied , that notwithstanding this , there are cases in which the innocent may suffer for the nocent ; innocent posterity , i mean , for their nocent ancestors , as has been beforeshewed . i acknowledge it is a difficult matter to state this case , as to all the circumstances and measures of it . there is no constant rule that the providence of god inviolably keeps to in the government of the world ; and whatever judgment we may be liable to make as to some events , and in which the power and justice of god is conspicuous to all ; and however in some cases he may generally so proceed , as that we may raise maxims from thence ; yet being it is not universally so , we are not to apply them without great caution , nor can we particularly apply them without danger of mistake : our saviour has taught us not to judge rashly ; in answer to that question put to him by his disciples , who did sin , this man , or his parents , that he was born blind ? that god may punish one generation for the faults of another , is not inconsistent with his justice ; and that he doth so , is no uncommon observation : but this is not always visible ; it sometimes , for ought appears to us , doth not proceed to such severity in the instances belonging to this argument . what becomes us to observe from hence , is to lay restraints upon our selves from such a consideration , that as we would not leave a curse behind us upon our posterity , so we should be just and faithful in all our concernments . and again , that we should prevent any such curse from falling upon our selves , that we may be liable to from our fore-fathers ; especially where there is a manifest reason for a just suspicion at least . which brings to . to consider what is to be done by way of relief and remedy , where this is the case known , or vehemently suspected to be . if the case be altogether secret or unknown , no person is therein concerned , more than he is in such as are simply sins of ignorance ; in which a general confession and repentance is sufficient . but in a case known , or much suspected , other measures are to be taken . and the first thing here to be proposed , is , that posterity be very careful to avoid those sins , which they know , or may conceive , their progenitors to have been guilty of ; because else they may be accountable , not only for those sins which are properly theirs , but for those of others so far as that guilt loses not by a progression , but every age contributes their share ; till ( as it was with the amorites ) their iniquity be full , and they become ripe for excision and destruction ( as has been before said ) . and the next thing is , that they shew their aversion to them by some particular and special marks and significations of it . i acknowledge that there are some cases so extreme , that such a remedy may come too late ; and there are some reasons why almighty god will not altogether pass by the tokens of a high displeasure . so it was with david , though a true penitent . and so it was with the israelites , whom neither the religion and conduct of an excellent prince , josiah ; nor even the intercession of such pious persons as noah , job , and moses , &c. could have saved . but let the case be what it will , as we know not how far the mercy of god may extend , and who can tell if god will turn and repent , as the ninevites rightly argued ; so if it be otherwise determined , that god will not spare nor forgive as to temporal punishment ; yet such persons , and such a people , have done all that is possible for them to do , and must submit the whole to the secret judgment of god. from the whole we may be able to judge of the case before us this day . the crime was indeed publick and notorious , but i am not willing to call it national ; for a national act implies a national consent , and a national consent is by a universal voice of the community of all degrees , or by their proper representatives . but the contrivers and executors of this bloody design , were far from being in such a capacity , being no more truly the representatives of the people , than pyrates and robbers , that for a season obtain so strong a force as is not to be opposed . all that can be said is , that too great a part of the nation might have been guilty of such things as gradually and insensibly led to it , and contrary to whatever they fore-thought , ended in it ; or at least our other crying sins ( as the office for the day signifies ) might have provoked almighty god to suffer it so to be . this may render it a suspected case , and what may be a reason sufficient for a national humiliation ; as it was of job's sacrifice , it may be , saith he , that my sons have sinned , in their festival entertainments . and accordingly we have the proper course taken by the nation and their representatives ( as soon as it was in its own power ) to prevent any further punishment , and that was to disclaim it before god and men , and to shew their resentment of it by the most publick declaration , and their establishing an anniversary day of fasting and humiliation , that whatever guilt might lie upon the nation , by that means , might be averted . and we have good reason to hope this course has not failed of success , and that god has had , and will have a favour for us , and be merciful to us , by the many testimonies he has given us of it in our frequent deliverance , in a wonderful manner , from those dangers which threatned us , and we were encompassed with , wherein he has done right to his providence , and shewed that there is nothing too hard for him to do . what remains , but that this should be a warning to all , that they be cautious how far they engage in any design against the publick peace and welfare of a nation ; that they press not too near upon the fences of government , lest by some violent motion they be transported beyond the conduct of their own reason and duty . for as no man is safe in his own custody without the divine aid ; so neither is he in his own custody if he is not watchful over himself . and when he is neither in his own keeping , nor in that of divine providence ( as he is not that ventures beyond the bounds of his duty ) who can tell how far he will go , or what the event may be ? but however , let men be as bad as they will , and want neither boldness to undertake a bad design , even that of assassinating princes , nor others to instigate them ; let princes be fearless of danger ( as david was , sam. . . ) and be never so liable to it ; yet he that is higher than the highest regardeth , and there be higher than they , that will protect them . it is that divine providence , that not only sits at the helm , and steers all publick counsels and affairs , but also watcheth over the persons and lives of the greatest monarchs ( who stand in as much need of such an invisible guard , as we of their protection ) . and what therefore , as it becomes the greatest to acknowledge , and to implore the protection of for themselves , so what it becomes all that are lovers of their prince , their country , and their own interest to join in , according to the apostle's direction , i exhort , that first of all ( in a more especial manner ) supplications , prayers , intercessions , and giving thanks , be made for all men : for kings , and all that are in authority ; that we may lead , &c. for this is good and acceptable in the sight of god , tim. . . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e chron. . . sam. . . prov. . . kings . . chron. . . vid. joseph . ant. l. . c. . jud. . . gen. . . gen. . . ▪ ▪ chron. . levit. . . v. lightfoot . vol. . talmud . exercitat . gen. . . matth. . . luke ▪ . john . . john . . matth. . . chron. . . isa . . judg. . . prov. . . luke . . matth. . . acts . . exod. . . . . judg. . . dan. . . psal . . 〈◊〉 ▪ * prov. . . † sam. . . levit. . . dan . . ezek. . . luke . . numb . . kings . . john . . gen. . . rev. . . sam. ▪ , . kings . . jerem. . . ezek. . . jonah . . job . . eccles . . . pulpit-popery, true popery being an answer to a book intituled, pulpit-sayings, and in vindication of the apology for the pulpits, and the stater of the controversie against the representer. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) pulpit-popery, true popery being an answer to a book intituled, pulpit-sayings, and in vindication of the apology for the pulpits, and the stater of the controversie against the representer. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed and are to be sold by randall taylor ..., london : mdclxxxviii [ ] attributed to john williams by nuc pre- imprints. errata: p. [ ]. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- pulpit-sayings, or, the characters of the pulpit-papist examined. williams, john, ?- . -- apology for the pulpits. catholic church -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - simon charles sampled and proofread - simon charles text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion pulpit-popery , true popery : being an answer to a book intituled , pulpit-sayings : and in vindication of the apology for the pulpits , and the stater of the controversie against the representer . london , printed , and are to be sold by randall taylor , near stationers-hall , mdclxxxviii . the contents . the whole controversy is resolv'd into the author himself . page . the vnreasonableness of charging misrepresentation on the pulpits . p. . none more guilty of misrepresentation than those of the church of rome , and our author in particular . p. , . our author's mistake in framing characters . p. . character i. about the popish-plot . p. . character ii. about the murther of k. charles the st , with an answer to the challenge . p. . character iii. about the fire of london . ibid. character iv. of popish emissaries . p. . character v. of the divisions and fanaticism in the church of rome . p. , . character vi. of a proper propitiatory sacrifice in the sacrament . p. . mr. thorndike vindicated . p. . of a sacramental presence , and breaking of a true body . p. . character vii . popery puts out the understanding of those of her communion . p. . the difference betwixt the severity of the church of england and rome . p. . the absurdity of auricular confession . p. . in transubstantiation they renounce their senses . p. . the popish-plea , that hearing is for transubstantiation . ibid. the pope alone cannot err , and all others cannot but err. p. . character vii . of praying and prophesying in an vnknown tongue . p. . of the sense of prophesying . p. . of the ill vse made of auricular confession . p. . character ix . of saints canonized for money and treason . ibid. of praying to a crucifix . p. . auricular confession tends to the debauching laity and clergy . and of confession in the church of england . p. . character x. the churches interest , the centre of their religion . p. . character xi . of the legends in the church of rome . p. . of the turning sacraments into shews . p. . of preaching purgatory instead of repentance . p. . and faction instead of faith. p. . of the preachers in the holy league . p. . character xii . of alms in the church of rome . p. . of exorcisms . p. . of the difficulty of knowing the doctrine of the church of rome . p. . of compounding for unforsaken sins , p. , . dr. t. translation of poenitentia vindicated , p. . indulgences for thousands of years to come , p. . indulgences not a relaxation of canonical penances , p. . character xiii . if a papist be false and deceitful , yet euge , &c. p. . no man can be a papist but he that 's blinded by education , &c. p. . about picturing the divinity , ibid. of praying to an image , p. . of worshipping bread and wine as god , p. . of the passion of christ taking away the guilt and not the punishment , ibid. of the non-necessity of repentance till the point of death , ibid. bare saying of prayers without attendance to what they say , is sufficient to divine acceptance , p. . of prayers in an vnknown tongue , and the translation of the mass-book , p. . character xiv . they take away the second commandment , p. . 't is not necessary to be sorry for the sin , but the penance , p. . an indulgence serves instead of a godly life , ibid. auricular confession the great intelligencer , p. . ignorance the mother of devotion , ibid. they must submit to an infallible judg , so as to believe vertue to be bad , and vice good , p. . their clergy must lead a single life , whether honestly or no , it makes no matter , p. . of the several artifices used by our author , p. . of his reply to the answerer of his reflections , p. . his appeal to the lives of papists amongst us , shew'd to be impertinent , ibid. a further account of his artifice , p. . his answers all along insufficient , p. . of his insincerity in the offers he makes to receive us into his church upon the representing terms , and detesting some principles and practices charged upon the church of rome , p. , . advertisement . transubstantiation contrary to scripture ; or the protestant's answer to the seeker's request . the protestant's answer to the catholick letter to the seeker : or , a vindication of the protestant's answer , to the seeker's request . an apology for the pulpits ; being in answer to a late book , intituled , good advice to the pulpits . together with an appendix , containing a defence of dr. tenison's sermon about alms ; in a letter to the author of the apology . errata . pag. . l. . r. . p. . l. . r. in terminis , p. . l. . a bringing . p. . l. . r. saith he . pulpit-popery , true popery : in answer to pulpit-sayings . when the author of the pulpit-sayings first appeared in the world , he undertook to shew what the papist is not , or how he is misrepresented ; and what he really is , and how he is to be represented . the first , he tells us , he exactly describ'd according to the apprehension he had , when a protestant : and the latter he represents according to his own private opinion , when a papist , as he is told . so that in the issue the whole is resolv'd into himself . thus it was , and thus he still maintains the humour ; for what are the characters he gives of a papist , but for the most part , the fruits of his own imagination ? and what doth he bring to confirm it , but , it is the papist i am ? what course doth he take to confute his adversaries , to confront their authorities , but , if that be a papist , i am none , i profess i renounce such popery . nay , as if he acted sub sigillo piscatoris , and had by deputation the authority of the chair , to determine and renounce ; and the keys of st. peter to bind and loose , to let in and out of their communion , as he sees fit ; he assures us , that whoever will be a good papist , must disclaim every point that is here set down by the pulpits as articles of religion . and again the papist represented i own it , it 's the papist i am ; and whoever assents to that character in that very form [ of the papist represented ] has done what is required , as to those particulars , to be made a member of our communion . so that if i declare , i profess i renounce on one side ; and i am , i do own , on the other , is sufficient to determine the point , and will be taken for an answer by his adversaries , there is no more to be said . but though our author may suitably enough to the temper of the church he is now of , be thus assuming and dogmatical , and may for ought we know , thus expound , transform , and determine with allowance ; yet there is no reason why he should prescribe to the church he has forsaken , and that his apprehensions be taken for the apprehensions of all of that communion . this he now thinks a little unreasonable , and could be content for once to own it , if his present undertaking be allowed to come in the place of it . for thus he saith , if any make exceptions against the character of a papist thus disguis'd , as 't was drawn there , [ in the papist misrepresented ] i 'le never quarrel upon that score , let that be raz'd out . — but however , tho he thus drops his own apprehensions , ( as well as he had his . points of representation ) and at once gives away half his labour ; yet like a true master of defence , he mounts the stage again , and renews the fight ; for by the help of some pulpit-sayings , he thinks he has given life to his otherwise dying cause . let that , saith he , be raz'd out , and these others take place , which 't is likely are more authentick . what! more authentick than his own apprehensions ! o yes , for its such a popery , and such a papist as is describ'd by ministers in their pulpits . — in which there are many things charged upon them , without either truth and sincerity ; and consequently , 't is not without grounds they complain of misrepresenting . . but why the pulpits ? are not the same things in books of controversy ; and are they not there more fully explain'd and debated ? thither therefore in reason we ought to be sent to understand how the protestants represent the papist . but then our author had not had the opportunity of exclaiming against those high places ( as he phrases it ) from whence , it seems , they have received no little damage ; or which is worse , he had been engaged in a dispute , which is not his province , as he tells us ( p. . ) . but if some pulpits have misrepresented them in some cases , what is that to the pulpits in general ? what is that to our church ? he has been already told , that we are far from defending such misrepresentations , if such there be . that which we adhere to , is the doctrine and sense of our church , as it is by law established ; and what representations are made agreeable thereto , we undertake to defend , and no other . can he think we are any more concern'd in the mistakes or infirmities of others , then he thinks himself to be in the loose and extravagant opinions of their own doctors , schoolmen , and casuists ? and is it not reasonable he should allow the same law to others he is forced so frequently to plead in his own defence ? . but further , supposing that some of the pulpits have misrepresented the papist in some points , and in those points he disclaims ; yet are there no points besides they differ in ? and if these were set aside , would the church of england and rome be one ? what thinks he of the many points i find in the same sermons he quotes , that he civilly passes by ? such as these , that the church of rome is alone the catholick church out of which is no salvation . that the pope is the universal head of that church . that that church is infallible ? what thinks he of transubstantiation , purgatory , invocation of saints , communion in one kind , divine service and scriptures in an unknown tongue , merit and works of supererogation , the worship of images , implicit faith , indulgences , deposition of princes , & c. ? lastly , what thinks he of the great point he all along omitted ( as he is charged ) that a papist doth not only believe the doctrines defin'd in the council of trent to be true , but also to be necessary to salvation ? are not these the doctrines of the church of rome ? and are not the pulpits as much employ'd in confuting these , as those of praying to images , and putting their trust in them , and the other follies and abominations ( as he calls them ) charged on his church ? and do not the protestants think as ill of those points he owns , as of those he disclaims ? . but how come they of the church of rome to start this charge of misrepresentation , who are of all churches in the world the most guilty of it ? or how comes our author to continue it , who neither durst so much as vindicate others or himself when convicted of it ? the learned author of the view enter'd the field , and threw down the gantlet , but our author fairly slinks aside , and leaves his brethren to sink under the imputation of the soulest misrepresentations . and this is not to be wonder'd at , when he has not one word of reply to all the accusations of that kind there produced against himself . and yet to give a further specimen how far this disingenuous quality has prevail'd upon his temper , he still proceeds in the same course , and to be quit with the pulpits , which he saith , are forward in making characters of the papists , he is as forward in making characters of the pulpits . the business of so many pulpits [ ten thousand , open every week he saith ] is chiefly to make exceptions , pick holes , quarrel , ridicule : and the more excellent they are at their work , the more they gain upon their auditory . and that he may not be wanting , he will be at his plots too , and follow what he calls oat's divine way of information . he had tried once before to form a design of this kind , when he would have sermons preach'd many years ago against popery to contain severe reflections upon his present majesty . but that he was soon made sensible of , and has not a syllable to excuse . and yet he will be again at his innuendo's , for thus he lays the scene , methinks the pulpits , saith he , should be more tender of their soveraign than to venture upon the same method ( which he before charges them with ) with the son , which prov'd so fatal to the father , and dangerous to the brother . but i fear the excess of jealousie for their religion , puts them upon being too bold with their prince ; and that by a just judgment of heaven , they are blindly practising the very principles they have so often charged upon the papists , making their churches interest the center of their religion , preaching faction instead of faith , &c. such expressions as these are not thrown out at all adventure ; and we may soon guess what they tend to , and it 's a fair warning . thus far for the pulpits ; but to shew what a talent he has at character-making , he will furnish us also with that of the true son of the church of england , viz. a genuine son of the church of england , is to have a good stock of this implicit faith by him , and to believe and speak , though he knows nothing at all . again , this is to the protestant tune , if a man can't tell how to run down popery , though he knows nothing of it , he 's no true son of the church of england . so that quarrelling and ridiculing is the work it seems of the preachers , and a delight in it , the temper of their auditors ; and to speak all at once , ignorance and arrogance , slander and impudence are in his opinion the ingredients of a true son of the church of england . this is the faithful representer , the soft adviser , the prudent cautioner , the impartial character-maker , the preacher of charity , the detecter of impostures and disguisements , and the great undertaker of setting every thing upon its proper basis , and bringing it into its true place and order . . but what if after all , this pulpit-popery is true popery ; and that nothing is charged upon them as a principle , but what the pulpits learn'd from themselves ? but , says some body , hold your hand , and make no such attempt , for can that be done after all his detestations , renouncings , disclaimings , abborrings , and abominatings ? does not he declare that these doctrines as here set down by the ministers , and charged upon the papists , he not only abominates , but that if that so to believe , be a papist , he would be a turk as soon as a papist . but these rhodomantado's come so often in , that i perceive they are words of course with him ; and shall therefore file them up with his anathema's in his papist represented and misrepresented , till i find due place for a further animadversion ; and so pass on to the examination of this his vindication of his good advice to the pulpits . for the better grace of which his performance , he has distributed his matter into fourteen characters of a pulpit-papist . but what 's become of the former method observed in his good advice ? what of the five cautions ? what of the twenty-eight assertions extracted out of the sermons , as instances of their foul misrepresentations ? certainly had he in earnest intended to have given a just answer to his adversary , or was conscious to himself of having performed it , he would have kept as much as might be to his former method , which the apologist carefully followed him in , that the whole might lye fair before the reader 's eye , and he might lay his finger upon the point in debate betwixt them . but that was not to his purpose ; he thought he might give the matter a more clever turn , if he slid off from his cautions and assertions , and dispos'd the whole into characters . assertions are dangerous points , and require proof and debate ; and it would be expected the matter should in that way be brought to an issue . but for characters , a writer may go on eternally , it requires only a little skill in representation , and the work is done . and it requires but a spark of confidence to tell his reader that he proceeds to this examen [ of the apology ] in the method of the good advice to the pulpits , and presently his characters fall back into cautions and assertions , by the figure of making two things to be one , and of denying and affirming without a contradiction . but if he will be at his characters , how come particular matters of fact to belong to a character ? or how is it that what belongs to a particular fort , is applied to the whole ? would it not be very ridiculous to describe a papist after the way taken by our author , and to tell the world , a papist is one that was engaged in an execrable plot to take away the life of his late majesty . a papist is one , that had a hand in the horrid plot of the murder of king charles the first . a papist is one that fired london . a papist is one that has his emissaries up and down to preach schism and sedition . a papist is one , what ? why , the different orders of religion are so many sects of religion . and yet , thus it must be , if characters are characters . did ever the pulpits talk at this loose and sensless rate , so as to draw characters from a particular fact ? and might it not as well be said , a papist is one that writes representations , and good advices , and pulpit-sayings ? this is a way peculiar to our author , for ought i have observed , among writers of characters ; and i 'le assure him he was very secure , when he offered this proposal , let them take this pulpit-draught along with them , and compare it with all the papists they know , or can hear of ; let them see , whether they answer that character . would it not be more proper if we were to give the character of a papist , and will proceed upon particulars , to resolve them into a general , and to see whether , for example , they have not such principles in the church of rome , as not only have put them upon , but do oblige them to some practices too near a kin to some of these before spoken of : and for an instance of which i shall refer him to doctrines and practices , p. and , and to a papist not misrepresented , p. . now the producing the anathema's of his church against these points , and an authoritative abrenunciation of them , would do more to remove the occasion of our so many years disturbances , and to wipe off the scandals urged against them from the pulpit , or elsewhere , than all the tracts that he was published ; and is as much a satisfaction they owe to the world , as any he would prescribe to the pulpits in his first character : when we hear of this , i dare assure him there shall be no want in the other . but however 't is but reasonable to give him the hearing . first character of a pulpit-papist . the papists in the year . &c. were engaged in a horrid execrable plot , &c. in these colours , saith he , were the papists set out by the pulpits . and why not set out by the king , lords and commons in parliament ? why not by the highest courts of judicature ? did the pulpits take the depositions and examinations ? did the pulpits set forth proclamations ? did the pulpits pass votes , and make acts , and sign narratives ? did the pulpits try , condemn , and execute ? did the pulpits , lastly , ordain fasts , and require publick solemnities to be observed ? or are the pulpits to enquire into all facts , and to give no credit to the reports , or no obedience to the orders of superiors concerning them ? if this was the case of the pulpits , then the title of this his chapter would not be amiss ; but he knows for what reasons it better deserves another ; and in reason ought to be the character of a — papist . second character of a pulpit-papist . the popish jesuits had a hand in that horrid plot of the murder of king charles i. &c. but if it were popish jesuits that were thus challenged by the pulpits , then why is the title , the character of a pulpit-papist ? since i hope all the practices of the jesuits can no more be charged upon the papist , than every papist will be content to be a jesuit . and therefore it 's very wide from the sayer's purpose , to shew this to be impossible , because of the nobility , gentry , and commonalty , that fought and lost their lives in defence of his majesty . for it has been no strange thing for many of all conditions to go one way , and yet the jesuit to go another . the times of henry . and . of france , will give us instances enough of this matter . i could wish that he had kept the challenge to himself , for having made it , he has made it necessary to answer it . it 's this , the challenge has been made to all sorts of protestants , to produce even ten papists , i may say two , that in all that confusion of civil wars , ever drew sword against him . i shall not here offer him the instances of capt. tho. preston , and capt. wright , mentioned in foxes and firebrands , both because they served under oliver ; and also , because it 's one of his street-pamphlets ( as he calls them ) but shall lay before him undeniable authorities . such is that of the royal martyr himself , who in a declaration of his , saith , all men know the great number of papists which serve in their army , commanders and others . we are confident a far greater number of that religion is in the army of the rebels than our own . the other shall be that of rob. mentet de salmonet , a secular priest , who in his history of the troubles of england , saith , that at the battel of edge-hill , several priests were found slain on the parliament side : for although in their declarations they called the king's army , a popish army , thereby to render it odious to the people ; yet they had in their army two companies of walloons , and other roman - catholicks . the book perhaps may not lye in every ones way ; but the passage is transcribed into sir william dugdale's view of the late troubles in england , p. . an. . as for the authority of the french - preacher , let it be as it will ; but i think it would have been a greater satisfaction to the world , if they had accepted his challenge printed and reprinted , and questioned him for it when alive , rather than after his death , to appeal to protestants whether it be not a fable . third character of a pulpit-papist . the papists were the instruments in the fire of london , &c. this he charges upon the preacher as an aggravation of his misrepresentation , that he should vent this almost twenty years after , [ ] when the whole matter had been throughly consider'd : and tho there were no other grounds whereon to build this charge , besides the clamour and affected jealousies of the people , and the confession of a distracted man , whose religion was not much of any kind , but still professedly a protestant ; yet upon these grounds , &c. i am not so well acquainted with the history of this , as to know when this whole matter was througly consider'd ; and it 's likely the preacher was as ignorant as i am : nor do i know upon what grounds he proceeded ; but tho it might be ( as our author saith ) that the distracted man's religion was not much of any kind , yet i have been assured upon good grounds , that he did not dye a protestant . fourth character of a pulpit-papist . the papists have their emissaries up and down to preach schism and sedition into the peoples ears . by such arts as these , they insinuate themselves among the poor deluded people of our separate congregations , and joyning with them in their clamours against the church of england , crying it down for superstitious , and popishly affected , they pass for gifted brethren , and real popery is carry'd on by such disguises . here our author first of all inveighs against the thing , and then against the pulpits for charging it upon them . here , saith he , the papists are set forth in a sermon before the honourable the judges , as great hypocrites , religious cheats and impostors . — a foul crime ! and if true , sufficient to cast the papists [ he should say , such spiritual factors ] out of the number of christians ; but if false , and not as here set out , as sufficient on the other side , to bring the pulpits under that as black character of misrepresenting . this is indeed to come up to the point , and i shall readily close with him upon it . the apologist to shorten his work , and to take down the confidence of the adviser without bearing too hard upon the party , contented himself with pointing his adversary to three or four authors for information in this case ; such as the quaker vnmask'd , the new discovery , the false jew , and foxes and firebrands . now to this he replies , who would not have expected that the answerer would have spent a few lines in making good such authorities , and proving them to be authentick beyond exception ? — and then after his manner , breaks forth into a wonderful exclamation , good god! that men should pretend to teach their auditory the gospel , and when they are thus challenged in a particular of this moment , then to fly to foxes and firebrands , and laying by the scripture , take refuge in libels and street-pamphlets ! now who would not have expected that he would have spent a few lines in disproving these authorities ? if he could have done this ; he had done somewhat ; but it 's easier to call a thing a libel , than to prove it . well! what is the proof he expects ? that it be authentick beyond exception ? but when shall it pass for authentick beyond exception ? nothing less , it seems , than scripture , is sufficient . for , saith he , when they are thus challenged , laying by the scripture , they take refuge in libels and street-pamphlets . here i must ingenuously confess , that we are at a loss , and that we read no more in the scripture of such emissaries , as faithful commin , and thomas heth , than he does of the miracles of xaverius , or the revelations of st. bridget , and the extasies of magdalen de pazzi . but did ever any man in the world , before our author , put a case upon this issue , and require scripture-proof for matters of fact , or charge his adversary with laying aside scripture , because he brings not scripture to prove it ? but supposing they have as good authority , as what they can produce for the legends of their church ; will it not be as authentick ? let us therefore proceed ( as he calls it ) to the examen . the first book ( which he has a particular pique against ) is what is call'd foxes and firebrands ; which is full of relations of this kind . there we read of one faithful commin , a dominican , who ( in the year . came over to england , pretending to be a protestant ) refused to be present at the prayers of the church , alledging that they were but the mass translated ; had a separate congregation , prayed for hours together with much groaning , and many tears ; and in his sermons , spoke as much against rome , and her pope , as any of the clergy ( as he pleaded before the queen and council . ) and yet all this while acted a part , to delude the people , and do service to his church . this narrative is an extract out of the memorials of the lord cecil , and was transmitted to bishop vsher ; and among his papers came into the hands of sir james ware , late one of his majesties privy council in ireland , and published by his son robert ware , esq . in the next year . there was another of our author's impostors detected , thomas heth a jesuit , who pretended much to spiritual prayers declaiming against set-forms ; and when brought before the bishop of rochester , said he thereby endeavoured to make religion the purer , — and that he laboured to refine the protestants , and to take off all smacks of ceremonies , that in the least do tend to the romish faith ; and the better to conceal himself , spoke against the jesuits , and declared that he was fallen from that society . and yet all this while was as much theirs , as ever , and did all by allowance . for he was discovered by a letter drop'd out of his pocket in the pulpit at rochester , and written from one samuel malt a jesuit of note ; which , after directions given to him , how to govern himself in these matters , thus concludes : this we have certified to the council and cardinals , that there is no other way to prevent people from turning hereticks , and for the recalling of others back again to the mother church , than by the diversities of doctrines . there was besides , found in his boots , a license from the jesuits , and a bull dated the first of pius quintus , to teach what doctrine that society pleased , for the dividing of protestants . and in his trunk were several books for denying baptism to infants , &c. this was a cause openly heard , and he openly punish'd for it ; and in our author's opinion very deservedly ; for as he well observes upon this occasion , tho dissimulation and delusion be abominable every where , yet never more than in spiritual matters , and concerns of the soul. so much for this book , and its authority . proceed we to the next , the false jew ; this book contains the history of one thomas ramsey , son to doctor ramsey , physician to the king , who being bred up in the jesuits college in rome , and well instructed in the hebrew tongue , was sent forth , and became a pretended jew under the name of joseph ben israel ( having been also circumcised ) and coming for england , at newcastle professed himself a christian convert ; but soon struck in among the anabaptists , and was baptized by them at hexham . the whole cause , after the discovery , was heard before h. dawson the mayor , , where this was partly prov'd against him , and partly confest . the narrative was published by the ministers of newcastle at that time . the two other books , the quaker vnmask'd , and the new discovery , were publisht by mr. pryn . in which he gives an account of one coppinger a franciscan , that with others of the same order were chief speakers among the quakers ; this was deposed upon oath . if our author is curious this way , i shall soon furnish him with other authentick testimonies of this kind : but i suppose this may be more than he desires : for if this be true , how will he reconcile this to christianity ? and who are they that in his opinion deserve to be cast out of the number of christians ? as for his long excursion about legends , i shall reserve it to its proper place . fifth character of a pulpit-papist . the different orders of religion amongst the papists , are neither better nor worse than so many sects , and several casts of religion ; only they have that advantage in managing their divisions , which we have not ; to pack up their fanaticks in convents and cloysters , and so bring them under some kind of rule and government . here the apologist had charged the adviser with a falsification , but he is so kind to himself as to pass it over , and truly so will the apologist in consideration of the kindness he hath now done , in giving him a further account of the sermon here quoted , which ( for want of direction as to author or bookseller ) he could not procure . the preacher being desirous , saith our author , to take off that foul blemish of so many sects and divisions rending the protestant church ( it seems there is now in his opinion another church ) of england inconsistent with the unity of christ's true church , and so often objected against them by catholicks , falls into that common topick of covering the defects of his own church , by calumniating that of his neighbour , and therefore he boldly makes up to his auditory , and tells them , that the vnity the papists boast of in their communion , is but a pretence , whereas they have really more divisions in their religion , than they charge ours with ; and then goes on in the words of the character above cited . out of this discourse of the preacher , our author draws three particulars , pag. . . that in the church of rome there are more divisions than they charge ours with . . that their religious orders are neither better nor worse than so many sects and several casts of religion . . that they have their fanaticks packt up in convents . and he should have added another from the apology , . that thus to pack them up in convents , is an advantage their church makes of it . our author having thus drawn out the sense of the preacher , and made what he will of the sense of the apologist , concludes , he must give me leave to set down these three assertions of the pulpit for so many clear instances of most foul misrepresenting . but by his leave i shall review his account of this matter . i am not obliged in strictness to concern my self in the first head , being neither charged upon the preacher in the good advice , nor so much as mentioned in the apology ; but yet he shall find me a fair adversary , and not willing to stand upon my terms , but take the work as he has cut it out for me . . the vnity the papists boast of , is but a pretence ; whereas they have really more divisions in their religion than they charge ours with . this our author saith is a calumniating of them ; and is one of his foul misrepresentations . and yet after all , i doubt it will return upon himself : for if there be a real and perfect union , it 's surely to be seen in their present obedience to the same church-authority , as our author words it , pag. . or in a perfect union of members among themselves , in charity . or in being of the same belief , as our author suggests . and yet if we come to examine it in this method , we shall find breach upon breach . for , ( . ) what schisms have there been in that church-authority ? no less than thirty ( as onuphrius reckons ) in the papacy , some of which continued ten , some twenty , and one fifty years ? ( . ) what actual disobediences to that authority in the times of innocent th . vrban th . and at this season are in the gallican church ? ( . ) what infinite quarrels betwixt the bishops and the friers , the friers and parish-priests , in the times of gregory th . innocent th . alexander th . martin th . boniface . clement th . benedict th . &c. from age to age , even to that infamous one in the last age here betwixt the seculars and regulars ? one pope revoking anothers decrees , and oftentimes annulling their own , as did innocent , martin and boniface , &c. ( . ) come we to their union in doctrine , and we shall find that but a pretence . for where have there been sharper conflicts than among them about the seat and extent of infallibility , predetermination , and the immaculate conception , & c ? each charging the other with heresie : as the jesuits and jansenists about the first ; the dominicans and jesuits about the second ; the franciscans and dominicans about the third . thus far therefore we are not agreed with our author ; for if actual and material divisions betwixt head and head , head and members , members and members , will make a plea to union to be but a pretence , then so it is with them . . their religious orders are neither better nor worse than so many sects and casts of religion . this , saith our author , is an absolute falshood ; and the vindicator that undertakes to defend the preacher , is in his opinion no better than a vain trister , in publishing such an idle apology . but why so ? because when the preacher had said , that the orders among the papists are so many sects , the account he gives of it is , that they are so many distinct bodies , that having different founders - , rules , habits , and opinions , by which an emulation is begot betwixt order and order , they become divided among themselves , and when occasion is offer'd , do actually war upon one another in their way . now , saith our author , would not a school-boy have been scourged for such a sleeveless frivolous excuse ? which he saith , may be as well applied to our colleges in the universities , as to their convents . but was this all the apologist undertook ? and did he thus conclude his defence of the preacher ? when he had thus shewn what is meant by their orders , and how emulations and quarrels might arise , and what occasions were given for them in point of rules , habits and opinions , did he not proceed to shew of what sort these differences were in the very next words after those quoted by the sayer ? surely he might in his transports have so far condescended , as to touch upon those points , and shewed a little of his skill in proving the differences betwixt the franciscans and dominicans about the immaculate conception , to have been no other than a school-opinion in our colleges ; and that notwithstanding all the feuds betwixt the jesuits and dominicans , the franciscans and the jesuits , there mentioned , they are ( as he would have it ) only different parts , not dividing but making up the whole . he complains of the preacher that he so worded it , that no protestant of his auditory but must receive this notion , that as in england , so likewise in the church of rome , there are different sects of religion , and fanaticks to divide it . and let any protestant or other read the history of their long contentions about the size of their hoods , and the immaculate conception , and he will read a notable comment upon the preacher's words , and see that he has not misrepresented them . i would fain know of our author what he thinks of a controversie that hath filled kingdoms , cities , universities , cloysters , with tumults and disorders ; pulpits and schools with contentions , invectives and revilings ; that hath concerned kings , popes and councils in composing ; and at last grew to that height , that after years bickerings , popes themselves , though solicited from time to time not only by the heads of the faction , but by princes themselves , yet either could not , or thought it not safe and adviseable to determine it ? let me sum it up in the words of the king of spain's embassador to the pope , to move him to come to a resolution upon it . consider the loss of many souls , the discord of the church , the dissentions of cities , the great dangers that hang over the kingdom . let our author consider this , and tell me for what reason he took no notice of this case laid before him , or how he could , after he had read it , charge the preacher with an absolute falshood ? for this , i shall refer him further to a late book call'd , the virgin mary misrepresented by the roman church , § . , and . but here our author relieves himself , that this may be seen in the queen dowager ' s chappel , in which officiate monks , friers , dominicans , jesuits , and clergy , that is , so many different orders of men , and yet without any difference in religion , or disagreement in faith. but will he say , there are no differences between the friers and dominicans , the jesuits and the clergy in those cases , when they charge each other with heresy ? or because they seem to agree , or do there agree , there is then nothing of this between order and order ? this is much such an argument , as if one that had seen the fox and the sheep , and other creatures quietly sitting upon one and the same hill in the west , when drove thither by a sudden inundation , should from thence conclude , and would perswade others to believe that these were all at a perfect accord , and that there was no enmity in their nature , nor had ever been in fact. i shall conclude this with what antoninus , a.b. of florence , saith in this case . let every one take heed of preaching on this matter [ the immaculate conception ] before the people , with a charge upon the contrary party , because it 's scandalous to 〈◊〉 people ; and accordingly it was forbidden by several popes . another of the falshoods charged upon the preacher is , the asserting , they have fanaticks pack'd up in their convents . the best answer i can give to the sayer upon this , is to set before the reader , an account of the method taken by the apologist in handling this argument . . who shew'd what fanaticism is , and that it 's a general name , comprehending in it superstition and enthuasiasm . the former is the placing religion in those things , which religion is not concerned in . the latter is when persons are acted and governed by some suppos'd communications from heaven , by revelations , visions , inspirations , by raptures and illuminations , and unaccountable impulses . . he shew'd there was such fanaticism amongst them , and in their convents ; of the former sort , he instanced in their monkish orders , habits , rules and privileges granted to them , and depended upon . to which our author gives not one word of reply . to the latter [ enthusiasm ] the apologist refers . ( . ) the institution of their orders , which with their rules they say , were first instituted by the holy ghost . ( . ) many of their doctrines , as purgatory , transubstantiation , and the immaculate conception , &c. ( . ) many of the things defined and observed in the church , as sacraments , festivals , canonizations , &c. for which they plead revelation . . he shewed further , that these revelations , were only suppos'd , not truly so . and that . because it derogates from divine revelation . and . because they agree not amongst themselves . of which there is given a notorious instance in the case of the immaculate conception , where revelation is pleaded on both sides ; and each side charges the other with imposture about it . but here our author is wholly silent . however something must be said upon this head , and that amounts to this . . that those in convents in the church of rome embrace a retired life , dedicate themselves to the service of god , in praying , fasting , &c. some according to the institution of st. benedict , others of st. francis , &c. and what follows ? therefore they are not fanaticks , therefore they are not superstitious and enthusiasts , that is , they are not fanaticks , because they are not . surely no fanatick could have fallen into this account , without the assistance of such a representer . . he adds , religious men in convents , are fanaticks , forsooth , because they are acted by some suppos'd revelations , visions , raptures , &c. what controversial stuff is this ! why at this rate , he might make fanaticks of all the patriarchs and prophets , of st. joseph , st. peter , and st. paul , and the rest of the apostles ; and most of all st. john , whose whole book of revelation , is nothing now , it seems , but so much fanaticism . surely our author is here driven to some extremity , when he has no other refuge , but by making the case in dispute betwixt us parallel with the case of the prophets and apostles ; and that when the apologist calls those of the romish church , supposed revelations , visions and raptures , it 's as criminal as if he had said as much of the divine writers . at this rate , saith he , he might make fanaticks of all the patriarchs , prophets and apostles . at what rate ? what , because he saith those pretended to in the church of rome are supposed ? will it follow therefore that those of the prophets and apostles are supposed too ? no surely , no more than it will follow , because the revelations of the prophets and apostles are divine , therefore those alledged in the church of rome are divine also . our author saith of the apologists account of fanaticism , what controversial stuff is this ! but i may with good reason return it , what impious stuff is this ! that will make the inspirations of magdalen of pazzi , and the revelations of st. bridget , and catharine of siena ( how fond and contradictory soever ) to stand upon the same foundation with the revelations of st. john : and those which some of their own authors call humane dreams , fantastick visions , and others call impostures , to be as much from god , as the visions of ezekiel , and the dream of joseph , &c. . that the church of rome disposes her fanaticks into convents for advantage , is another charge produced against them by the preacher , and insisted upon by the apologist ; but that our author , for reasons best known to himself , left as he found it . sixth character of a pulpit-papist . in the roman church the sacrament must now be no longer a representative , but a real propitiatory sacrifice ; and christ's natural body must be brought down upon a thousand altars at once , and there really broken — and his blood actually spilt a thousand times every day . here the apologist charges our author with altering the sense of the preacher , when he makes the preacher to declare that was a positive assertion of the papists , which was an argument and consequence of the preacher's from their assertion ; and that for this purpose he had left out the words now , and must be , that were the indications of it . all that our author has to reply to this charge is , that it 's a nice point the vindicator is reduced to , to bring off the preacher : but it 's not so nice as 't is evident that our author's account of it is a foul misrepresentation . if the preacher had charged it as a doctrine own'd by the papists , then so far as they disown it , it had been a misrepresentation ; but as it 's an argument against them ( as it 's plain it was ) then it 's no more a misrepresentation , than it 's false , and that belongs not to representation , but dispute . and therefore so far as an argument of the preacher against the papists , differs from a concession and assertion of the papists , so far has our author misrepresented the preacher ; when he saith , that the protestants awkard reasoning is set out for their doctrine . well at length however it shall be own'd for reasoning and inference ; and though it 's not his province ( he saith ) to examine the truth of such reasoning , yet he fancies that 't is easily reconcilable with reason and scripture , and so intelligible — that the sacrifice of the altar is representative of that upon the cross : that is , if he will speak to the purpose , that though the sacrament be a real and propitiatory sacrifice , yet it 's still representative . but how will he prove it ? his argument is this , christ really present in the sacrament may be offer'd to god upon the altar by the hands of the priest , in remembrance of the same christ offering himself a victim upon the cross for the redemption of man : and consequently , the sacrifice of the altar is representative of that upon the cross. where i would only ask him , what is the difference betwixt christ's being really present in the sacrament when offer'd , and the sacrifice of the altar ? what again is the difference 'twixt the being offer'd in remembrance of christ's offering himself upon the cross , and the representative of that upon the cross ; and consequently , whether he has not proved what he intended after this manner , that the sacrifice of the altar is representative of that upon the cross , because it 's representative ? methinks he might have shewn some little respect , when he is on the arguing part , to what the apologist had offer'd against this . but however , though his argument may signifie little , yet he hopes mr. thorndike's may be of some authority , who , he saith , never scrupled the least at this ; expresly owning the [ elements changed into the body and blood of christ , to be truly the sacrifice of christ upon the cross , and to be both propitiatory and impetratory ] and yet never deni'd it to be perform'd in remembrance of christ crucified . but here our author has grosly injur'd mr. thorndike . for , . mr. thorndike owns no such thing ( as i can find ) that the elements are changed into the body and blood of christ. but he speaks things plainly inconsistent with it , as he saith , n. . the sacrament containing mystically , spiritually and sacramentally ( that is , as in and by a sacrament ) tendreth and exhibiteth , not the body of christ , much less turn'd into it . nay further he saith , the eucharist is nothing else but the representation here upon earth of what is done in heaven . n. . . neither doth he say , the elements are truly the sacrifice of christ upon the cross , but the eucharist , and the eucharist as representing . for thus he saith , n. . not the elements , but the breaking , pouring forth , distributing , dealing , are all parts of the sacrifice , as the whole action is that sacrifice by which the covenant of grace is confirmed . n. . and further , the eucharist [ that is as thus administred ] is the same sacrifice of christ upon the cross. how ? as that which representeth is truly said to be the thing which it representeth ? that is , so far as the representer of the thing may be said to be the thing represented , so far is the eucharist the same sacrifice . . when he saith , the eucharist is propitiatory and impetratory ; he doth not in the least own that it is after the same manner that the sacrifice of christ upon the cross was propitiatory and impetratory . ( . ) because he saith , whether the eucharist in regard of the oblation , so in regard of the consecration , may be call'd a propitiatory sacrifice , is a question among some of the church of rome . n. . ( . ) he refers it wholly to the participation of it . if men , saith he , did but consider , that the eucharist had never been instituted but to be participated , they would find it impertinent to alledg any reason why it should be a sacrifice , that tendeth not to the participation of it ; which is directed against the doctrine of the church of rome . n. . ( . ) he most peculiarly makes the propitiation and impetration in the sacrament to respect the prayers of the church there offer'd up . n. . for thus he concludes , is not the sacrament a propitiatory and impetratory sacrifice by vertue of the consecration , though in order to the oblation and presentation of it by the prayers of their church ? so that the case remains still where it was ; if it be a real propitiatory sacrifice , it 's not representative , for the one implies the presence , the other the absence of the same thing ; the one implies it 's the thing , the other implies it's only the sign or resemblance of it ; and so a thing can be no more the representative of it self , than it can be it self and not it self at the same time . but he undertakes further , that the other is not more difficult to be conceived , viz. how christ's body may be really present in this sacrament , and yet his body not really broken there , nor his blood actually spilt . here the apologist took up the cause after this manner : something is really broken and actually spilt , if it be a real and propitiatory sacrifice ; something is really broken and actually spilt , as our senses tell us , and as they acknowledg : and now that the body and blood should only be there , and yet that not be the body that is broken , nor that be the blood that is spilt , is next to the affirming , that it 's broken , and not broken , spilt and not spilt . but our author here unties the knot , as he presumes ; for , saith he , all this may yet be , that his body may be there , and his body not be broken , &c. since 't is not present there corporeally , but sacramentally only ; which manner of presence is no more consistent with real breaking or spilling , than are spirits , or the glorified bodies of the blessed , which though real and substantial bodies still , are notwithstanding not at all susceptible of those corporeal accidents . in answer to this , let us consider , what is that body of christ which is said to be really present in the sacrament . and that is the same body which our saviour lived in , and that hung upon the cross , and which the elements are turn'd into by consecration . but will he say the question is not concerning the nature of the body , which is granted to be a proper body consisting of flesh and blood ; but the presence of that body , which is not corporeal but sacramental only , which manner of presence is no more consistent with real breaking , &c. than the glorified bodies of the blessed , which though real and substantial bodies , are not susceptible of those corporeal accidents . but to this i answer , . that the body we speak of , is not a glorified body , but the same body which hung upon the cross , which consisted of flesh and blood , and had flesh that might be broken , and blood that might be spilt . . as to the sacramental presence of a substantial body consisting of flesh and blood , bones and sinews ( which they grant the body in the sacrament to have ) whatever our author thinks , is surely one of the most difficult things to be conceived in the world . for it is to suppose a thing to be without being that thing which it is ; to suppose a body to be there , and yet to be divested of all the properties belonging to that body . nay it 's to suppose that which is a real and substantial body to be only representatively present , and by way of signification ; which is as much as to say , the body is not present , for the same thing cannot be the thing , and the representation of the thing . . there is no more reason for this sacramental presence of a real body , than there is for its being a sacramental and not a substantial body : for what is the reason why they ascribe a sacramental presence to a real body , but because they know there are none of the tokens belonging to such a presence ; and then why should it not be a real body , but sacramental , when there are none of the properties belonging to a real body to be discerned , or existent in it ? . to this i add ; therefore there can be no such thing as what he calls a sacramental breaking and spilling of real body and blood. for such as the body is , such is the presence , such the breaking and spilling ; and why he should argue from a sacramental presence to a sacramental breaking and spilling , and not argue from a substantial existence of a body to real presence and real spilling , is a thing may not be difficult to our author , but is surely in reason not to be conceiv'd . if the absurdities be gross , let them thank themselves for it , for they are no other than they first offer to the world , and it 's no wonder the world returns them upon them with advantage . seventh character of a pulpit-papist . popery puts out the vnderstanding of those of her own communion , and tears out the hearts of all others : whom she cannot deceive , she will destroy . the absurdity of auricular confession is endless , where a man unlades himself of all his sins , by whispering them into the priests ears . likewise transubstantiation , where men must renounce all their five senses . the pope's infallibility keeps a good decorum with the rest . he alone cannot err , and all others , without some of his assistance , cannot but err . upon this our author saith , their religion is attacked only by the vnchristian artifices of passion and imposture . but why only ? for supposing popery puts not out the understanding of others ; or that in transubstantiation men don't renounce all their five senses , &c. yet is there no implicit faith , no transubstantiation , no other principles owned by their church , that the protestants do attack ? he saith further , that in this character there are as many calumnies as lines . and that remains to be tried according to the particulars he breaks it into . as , . it asserts that popery puts out the vnderstanding of those of her own communion . this assertion was not introduced here either by the adviser in his assertions , or by the apologist . but it was particularly handled in the apology , assert . . p. . and assert . . p. . where it 's proved , ( . ) that in their church , to believe the church , without a reason , is not only safe , but meritórious ; and that whoever thus implicitly believes , is a good catholick . ( . ) that ignorance is in their opinion the mother of devotion . ( . ) that it 's a mortal sin so much as to doubt , and so no room is left for enquiry . ( . ) that they take away the key of all spiritual and divine knowledg , the holy scriptures . now instead of an answer , our author has in his sayings whólly left out assert . . and blows off all that is said in assert . . with this one word , it 's a great calumny , p. . and what he now offers upon this head , is , ( . ) that they have many books , catechisms , &c. i wish he could say the scriptures , to be ignorant of which is to be ignorant of christ , saith their canon law , dist. . si juxta ; but that the people are not allowed so much as a summary of . and the time was in the reign of implicit faith , and before heresie disturb'd the peace of its empire , that persons have been burnt for teaching their children the creed and the lord's-prayer in the vulgar tongue . ( . ) he saith , there 's none but knows , that whoever will be a christian must submit his vnderstanding to such mysteries that are above it . therefore will it follow , he must not so much as enquire what those mysteries are , and whether they are of that kind , as he must submit his vnderstanding to ; whether , that is , they are of the doctrines of our saviour , or of men ? . popery tears out the hearts of all others out of her communion ; whom she cannot deceive , she will destroy . this , saith our author , is false . how so ? ( . ) because though catholicks are bound to go and teach all nations , yet when men are so obstinate as to reject all instructions , they are taught to go elsewhere , and only to pity and pray for such blind souls , but not to destroy them . witness the course they took in the west-indies in the conversion of the poor natives , a course that made them abhor christianity , as bartholomaeus casas , a bishop of theirs present , relates , to whom i refer our author . ( . ) he answers , 't is true , in the catholick church care is taken to preserve all such as are her members , firm in her communion , and there are not wanting threats to keep the inconstant from being misled into error ; as likewise punishments to reduce such as leave her , and blindly run after false guides . a fair concession ! and which will lead us into an examination of the case , and teach the world what they are to expect . for if all within her communion are expos'd to their threats and punishments , we know how large a share of the world , according to their computation , is to be taken in , since they claim a jurisdiction over all christians and churches . but , ( . ) he saith , if for this reason [ such punishments ] she must be said to tear out their hearts , and destroy such as she cannot deceive ; what is to be the character of this preacher's church , which by the consent of bishops is fenced with such laws as punishes with loss of goods , imprisonment and death , not only those who leave her communion , but likewise those who were never members of it ? but we are not concern'd for the present so much to understand what the preacher's church is , as that church which the preacher is not of . was there never no tearing or destroying elsewhere ? yes surely , somewhat looks that way ; i cannot say , saith our author , but that rash zeal , headlong revenge , or detestable avarice , may have hurried some of ours upon such barbarous attempts . but certainly never did any christians deliberately and with counsel thus deeply engage themselves in blood. so that if he is to be credited , if there have been barbarous attempts , it was only rash zeal , &c. but not deliberate , not with counsel and law. and it has been only some that have been thus hurried to such attempts , but not a considerable body among them ; and much less such as have had the supreme regiment in their church . as for the laws the preacher's church is fenced with , our author surely knows from what occasion they arose , and whose practices they were that gave birth to them ; and he ought to know again , that the laws in their execution never produced such barbarous attempts , as what he calls their own rash zeal , headlong revenge , and detestable avarice . so that if law and no law be compared , the state of no law ( if such it was ) has been far more mischievous than that of law. but were there never any christians that did thus deliberately and with counsel engage themselves in blood , as , he saith , the preacher's church has done ? what thinks he of the church of rome ? are they not christians ? and were there never any such things deliberately and with counsel perpetrated amongst them ? have they no councils , no laws that touch upon this point ? and were there never any christians engaged in blood upon pursuance of those laws ? is there no such thing as excommunicating and anathematizing hereticks among them ? no delivering over persons so convicted and condemned , to the secular power ? and is there no such thing as compelling such secular powers to exterminate those hereticks out of their dominions ? is there no confiscations of goods , imprisonment , no death for such as are obstinate ? and were there never persons , families , countries that suffer'd under crusado's issued out against them , in obedience to such laws , canons and decrees ? surely our author is much to seek in the state of his present church , if he is ignorant of this , and a thousand times more than i shall now tell him ; and is very ignorant in the state of the preacher's church he has left , if he thinks his new mother falls short of the old , as he saith . but if he saith one thing and thinks another , how fit he may be to be a member of the church he is now in , i know not ; but surely he could be no fit member then of the church he left . for a conclusion of this , i shall crave our author's patience to turn to the lateran council under innocent the third , can. . and he will see i have not said this without book , or wrong'd his church , however he may have wrong'd the preacher's church in his account of it . . the absurdity of auricular confession is endless , where a man unlades himself of all his sins , by whispering them into the priests ears . of this , he saith , it 's a calumny and misrepresentation ; since no catholicks teach that only whispering sins in the ears of a priest is sufficient for their remission . nor doth the preacher say that only whispering is sufficient , for he must needs know that there is the making up their cross , and saying mea culpa , and many other things to be done . where then is the calumny and misrepresentation ? is it in the vnlading ? but why is not that as fit as expiating , which is the phrase used by their own catechism , where they are taught that the faithful ought to be in nothing more solicitous than to take care to expiate their soul by confession ? is it because it 's called whispering ? for what then serve their boxes , and why is it call'd a seal ? is it because of the easiness of it ? that is the case at the last . for , saith he , every one will see how insincere this preacher was in saying , that a man unlades himself , &c. to make his followers believe the papists to be so sottish as to think their sins forgiven by a whisper only ? he may e'ne turn his anger upon his own church for teaching this doctrine , for from thence the preacher learn'd it , which saith , the sacrament of confession was graciously instituted on purpose to supply the place of contrition . for further proof of this , i remit the reader to the apology , assertion . . of transubstantiation , where men must renounce all their five senses at once . here the apologist charged our author with a small falsification , which indeed he has now mended , but not acknowledged . but he will make up that defect by the force of his argument ; for now he seriously undertakes to prove that in transubstantiation they don't renounce all their five senses . as for three of them he has nothing to say ; but then sight and hearing are so far from being against , that they eminently serve for the proof of it . as how ! if , saith he , we follow our hearing , which is the sense by which faith comes , we are oblig'd to believe it . christ's words expresly signifie and declare the sacrament is his body . these words we hear deliver'd by those whom he has appointed to teach and instruct the flock , to wit , the pastors of the church ; these words we see likewise , and read in holy scripture . so that if we follow our ears and our eyes directed by the word of god , we are bound to believe this mystery , and consequently do not renounce all our five senses at once . well! but do we hear christ thus declaring ? no , but we hear the church . has the church then such an organical voice to speak , as we have ears to hear ? no , but the church teaches by its pastors . but are the pastors we hear , all infallible in their teaching ? and are we to believe them , although they teach contrary to sense and reason ? there indeed he has lost the case . but however he brings in sight to his relief . for these words , saith he , we see likewise , and read in holy scripture . — and whilst we let both our senses and reason be immediately directed by god's word , which is infallible , we more reverence the scriptures , and believe upon better grounds than the protestants . thus we are at last led to a private spirit , and the protestant way of resolving faith into the scriptures , without need of any infallible interpreter . for 't is but letting our senses and reason be immediately directed by god's word , which is infallible , and we may soon be satisfied . i heartily thank our author for this free concession ; for these are the grounds protestants do believe upon . but yet he will needs have it , that they believe upon better grounds than the protestants . this i am apt to think he will no more be able to prove , than that they reverence the scriptures more than protestants . however this he attempts and gives this reason for , that protestants let natural objects , ever about mysteries of their faith , have the direction of their senses , in which they are so often deceived , rather than the word of god , which cannot deceive them . but where has the word of god taught us that we are not to judg of natural objects by those senses which he has given us to judg of natural objects by ? will he undertake to prov● this also ? when he himself acknowledges that to frame a judgment of the nature or substance of a thing , we must depend upon the information of sense , and that the common and natural way is to judg according to the relation the senses give , from the external and natural accidents of the thing . and now is not a wafer a sensible object , and are we not to judg of it according to the relation the senses give of it , and from its external and natural accidents ? how will our author salve this difficulty ? that he proceeds in after this manner : but if we desire to frame a true judgment [ as if the other was a false one ] of what is the nature and substance of such an object , not according to a natural being , but according to the divine power , and what it may have of supernatural ; the senses ought not to be laid aside , but we must consider here too the information these give , not now from the natural accidents , but from the word of god. i should have thought the conclusion to be infer'd from hence would rather be , the senses ought to be laid aside , forasmuch as we are not in such case to judg of the natural accidents according to what they report . for i must confess he is one of the first i have met with that has improved the argument this way , and that appeals to the senses for the proof of transubstantiation , which their church so cautiously warns them against in this matter . but he will illustrate this by an instance in another matter . a friend , saith he , sends me a transparent stone , of which when i would make a judgment , i cannot do it without the information of my senses . these may inform me two ways , either by looking upon the thing it self , or by reading the letter , sent along with it , or the report of the bearer . if i take the information of my senses from the view of the stone , i judg it to be a pebble ; if from the letter ( wrote by an excellent artist ) and the bearer ( a skilful jeweller ) i judg it to be a true diamond , upon their authority and greater skill . now in which judgment of these ought i to acquiesce ? certainly in this last , and yet in so doing i hope i should not renounce all my five senses at once . — so since my senses assure me from scripture and the pastors of god's church , that the sacrament is christ's body ; i am bound in reason to judg of it so , rather than from the natural accidents , to judg it to be bread : so that in thus believing this mystery , we do not renounce , but follow our senses . but his instance reaches not the case : . because the judging , whether a transparent stone be a counterfeit or a diamond , is not a matter of mere sense , but judgment , skill and experience , and belongs to an artist . but sense will teach every one whether it be a stone or a pea , hard , or soft , transparent , or opacous . but now the case before us is , whether what we see is a bit of bread , or the body of a man ; whether it 's broken or whole , &c. and therefore to put the case right , and make it parallel , he must suppose the stone to be a known diamond , as known to him it 's sent to , as to him that sent it ; and that the letter and bearer both affirm this small stone which he now holds betwixt his fingers , and knows by his senses to be a stone and not a man , is yet the great mogul in person , and so is every diamond besides that comes over , and yet that prince is still in his own country . must that person now , because of their authority and greater skill , think himself bound to acquiesce in their judgment against the testimony of sense ; or must he not renounce his senses to do it ? . he supposes further , that the doctrine of transubstantiation is as plainly contained in scripture , as it is in the letter that the transparent stone then sent is a diamond . but that he knows we deny ; and when he can find these or the like words , this bread is turn'd into my natural body , or is upon consecration my true substantial body , it will be time enough to prepare a further answer for him . the question being not , whether what god teaches is not to be believed ; but whether he hath so taught . so that it still remains true what the preacher charged upon him , that in believing transubstantiation , a man must renounce his five senses at once , even hearing it self , which will not only teach us to distinguish betwixt the host's , and the priest's falling into the water ( though we are blindfold ) but we must in their way renounce that sense to believe it , when we hear all mankind concurring in it , that the report of sense is to be believed , and that in our author's words , to frame a judgment of the nature or substance of a thing , we must depend upon sense . . the pope alone cannot err , and all others without some of his assistance , cannot but err . here are two propositions : . the pope cannot err . this our author now calls an opinion of some school-divines , whereas the apologist shewed it to be the prevailing opinion of their church , whether in respect of number or authority . it 's the most common opinion of almost all catholicks , as bellarmin . it 's the catholick truth , and what all catholick doctors teach in these days , saith suarez . but to this not a word . ( . ) all others cannot but err . here our author is guilty of a new misrepresentation . it is charged upon us , saith he , because we believe the members of our church to be fallible , that therefore they cannot but err . where he changes the proposition into a conclusion , by foysting in the word , therefore , and then running it down as a most illogical and absurd consequence ; but let him answer for the faults of it , whose conseqeunce it is . the consequence then be to himself , and let the proposition be the preacher's , that all others without some of his assistance cannot but err . this is absolutely false , saith our author , and so say i too ; but it is true popery . let their catechism decide the case , to that i appeal , which thus delivers the sense of their church upon it , but as this one church ( which the pope of rome is at the head of , sect. . ) cannot err in delivering the doctrine of faith and manners , seeing it 's governed by the holy ghost : so all the rest , which assume to themselves the name of a church , must of necessity be engaged in the most pernicious errors of doctrine and manners , as being led by the spirit of the devil . now here is the whole calummy at large . if men submit to the pope , and are in his church , they have the benefit and assistance of his infallibility , and are under the guidance of it as secure as in the ark of noah ; but if they leave it , they are drown'd in error and perdition . and surely , while they are in actual error , they cannot but err , according to the known axiom , quicquid est quamdiu est , necesse est esse . because the apologist before was modest , and having not seen the sermon it self , and so not fully understanding the sense of it ) would neither too hastily condemn or acquit , but after he had said what he thought fit upon it , concludes , if the preacher went beyond this , what author or authors he had for it , i know not , they do not at present occur to me ; our author begins to exult , saying , it 's such a consequence as the apologizer himself knows not how to justifie , ( nor need not as a consequence , for that 's his own ) and yet he has not goodness enough to acquit us from so foul a calumny . the matter it seems is foul , and is prov'd upon them , let him now she his goodness in confessing the charge , or more of his strength to prove it a calumny . eighth character of a pulpit-papist . he is professedly edified in ignorance by his church , praying and prophesying in an vnknown tongue . they make no other use or account of confession , than what profest drunkards do of vomiting . the first shall be considered in another place , char. . as to the second , the apologist shew'd what is the sense of the word prophesie in the cor. . which the preacher there refer'd to , viz. that the apostle there understands by it the expounding the articles of the christian faith , and of the scriptures that contain it . but here our author grievously mistakes him when he adds , and to be the same as preaching . for that he affirmed not , as well knowing that the apostle is to be otherwise understood than of vulgar preaching . ( . ) because the apostle there distinguishes it from doctrine , v. . ( . ) because of the way it was exercised in , when one spoke after another ; agreeably to the custom of the jewish doctors in their synagogues , of whom philo saith , that one read the bible , and another of the more skilful 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , passing through places not understood , exp●und●d them . ( . ) because it was an extraordinary gift by revelation , v. , , , . and reckoned as such amongst them , c. . . — . . . . the apologist shew'd farther , it was not reasonable to fix this sence upon the preacher , because he must needs know it to be otherwise . to this our author briskly returns , marry , if they never preached contrary to what they knew , this would be a good rule . and he has found it by woful experience to be a hard task to discover it ; though it has been plainly made out that some write contrary to what they know . . he shew'd farther , that the preacher was speaking about worship , and so consequently it must be what is so accounted ; and therefore that this must be rather the reading of lessons out of scripture and hymns ( which are sometimes call'd prophesie , chron. . . ) and which are in their church-service in an vnknown tongue . this our author passes by , as also the challenge following it . but yet he will have it a calumny , whilst he asserts a thing of the papists , which in the common acceptation of the word is absolutely false . but what if it was the common acceptation of the word , if not the acceptation the apostle takes it in , in that place which the preacher refers to ? but what if it be not the common acceptation of the word , but that it 's taken vulgarly for foretelling things to come ? who then is the calumniator ? . they make no other use of confession , than what profest drunkards do of vomiting . our author saith , this is a most putid calumny , and that the vindicator dares not defend , but only that so it is in the practice of many of their church . this he complains of , and with good reason ; but then what shall be said of one that after he has told a story of one that declaim'd against the papists , for a generation of vipers , and a profligate sort of men , knowing but two families , and those good men ; from thence takes occasion to exclaim , but this is to the protestant-tune : if a man can't tell how to run down popery , though he knows nothing of it , he 's no true son of the church of england . this is case for case . but was this all the apologist had to say in defence of the preacher ? did not he produce authorities of their own as to the general practice ? did he not refer to their doctrines and penances , and the taxa camerae apostolicae in confirmation of it ? this had more become him to have answered , than to put a case . ninth character of a pulpit-papist . it consists of three paragraphs : . he pays his devotions to saints canonized for money and treason . here the apologist charges the sayer with an alteration of the preacher's words , from which he would bring himself off by saying it's an insinuation , which to the hearers is as good as an assertion ; whereas the corruption was , that he turn'd a particular into an universal . here our author observes against the apologist , . that he proves first it may so happen , which is as much to the purpose , as for one to say the church-of-england - men are corrupters of god's word , because 't is possible they may be so . but the case is far otherwise ; for if there be no certainty , but that the pope may canonize a rebel for a saint , then there is no certainty but that the saint may be no saint . and then what become of the devotions of the supplicants , as those to thomas à becket , at whose shrines were more offerings made , than to christ himself ? ( . ) he saith it has been done , and in the next line comes in with an instance , where it had like to have been done . the instance was of maria visitationis , where indeed it was not done ; but that it was not , was more from the king of spain's jealousie , than the pope's sagaciousness , who sanctified her by letters under his own hand . our author , i perceive , dares not so much as name this instance . ( . ) as for the instance of thomas à becket , he saith he was canoniz'd not for rebellion , and because he adhered to the pope against his prince , but for his virtuous life and martyrdom , and the attestation of his sanctity by undeniable miracles . not for rebellion ! as if that would be exprest in the reasons for his canonization ! i have read it was a moot question , whether he was damn'd for treason , or glorified as a martyr . i think it not worth the while to decide it , but leave our chronicles and our author to struggle about it . but it minds me of a story told by bellarmin , of one that was worshipped for a martyr , and yet appear'd afterward and told them , he was damn'd . . they pray to a crucifix of wood or stone , as well as to christ himself , and attribute as much satisfaction to it , as to the blood of christ. our author rejoyns , that this is every word an infamous falshood . and continues , though the vindicator appeals to the words and forms of some of our prayers , and then says , that [ if words will make it plain , the preacher was not mistaken ] yet this is so childish a plea , that methinks it ought to be beneath a divine , especially a man of conscience , to charge so gross an abomination upon such a frothy pretext . and then he gives his reason . i must confess that if the vindicator had only the words and forms of their prayers to plead in vindication of the preacher , without attending to the sense and reason of the thing , that it might be as childish and frothy as he represents it ; and he would have deut. . . and the benedicite used in our church against him , as our author argues . but if he had read on , he would have found that it was the words as necessarily including such a sense , and that the apologist did covertly refer him to the papist represented and not misrepresented . our author now confesses himself to be the same that wrote the papist misrepresented and represented ; and should be therefore concern'd to have defended it against the forecited answer . in which was shewn : . that the cross in the church of rome as it's representative , so is consecrated by an office on purpose composed for it . . that at the consecration of it they pray that the lord would bless the wood of the cross that it may be a saving remedy to mankind , a stability of faith , an increase of good works , and the redemption of souls ; and that christ would take this cross into his hands ; and that all that offer it , may by the merit of this cross be delivered from every sin they have committed . . that it 's esteem'd upon consecration to have those virtues communicated to it . . that they adore it even with latria , the worship they give to god , and direct their prayers to it . . that those prayers are without a figure , and in a proper sense applied to the material cross. this the author of that book proved ( . ) as that throughout , the cross is distinguished from christ , because they pray to christ to bless the cross , and that he would communicate such virtues to it . ( . ) from their own authors , such as soto , catharinus and aquinas . ( . ) from the severe censures of those who held otherwise , as was the case of johannes aegidius canon of sevil , and imbert of bourdeaux , and the curate of pomyrol . our author talks of a forehead , of these that make up against them ; it 's a word i am not us'd to , but he must have somewhat like it , that allows this practice to be worse than heathenish , and a gross abomination ; and yet lets all this to this day lye unanswer'd , and thinks to put us off with the same crude replies that stand there confuted . in conclusion , it appears to be no more true , that they are defamed by the method used in the church of england , than that the church of rome is the mother-church of the church of england ( as our author suggests . ) . making a particular confession of our sins to men , instead of keeping up wholesome discipline , is the way to corrupt it , and tends to the debauching both laity and clergy . here our author spends what he has to say , both against preacher and vindicator , in shewing special confession to be allow'd in the church of england , and in exclaiming against his adversaries for falling foul upon what he calls the best of institutions : as if either of them were against that which their own church encourages , and which the preacher himself calls a wholesome discipline . but the beginning of the paragraph shews what confession the preacher thus censures , viz. auricular confession , as it is practiced in the church of rome at this day ; that confession , which the apologist elsewhere describes from themselves , that requires beforehand a diligent examination of the conscience about all and singular mortal sins , even the most secret , with all their circumstances , so far as may change the nature of the sin , and then to discover all those they can call to mind to the priest , from whom they expect absolution , and without which absolution is not to be expected ; nor can they have any benefit of the absolution . it 's of this the preacher saith , that the consequence of it , is to run an apparent hazard of being undone in many cases by knaves for interest , or by fools out of levity and inconstancy , and a blabling humor , that lets them into the secrets of families , &c. besides , instead of keeping up a wholesome discipline , it 's the way to corrupt it , and tends to the debauching both laity and clergy , in as many ways as there are sins to be committed , when the confessor and the penitent begin to discover and understand one another . and this the apologist confirmed from the complaints made by good men of their own communion , from the shameful cases to be found in their casuists , from the bulls of popes , contra solicitantes in confessione . and of which i find a late instance . tenth character of a pulpit-papist . the churches interest is the center of their religion , and their consciences turn upon the same pin. every thing is pious , conscientious and meritorious , that makes for their cause . what is said , as to the first of these , by the apologist , that the churches interest is the center of their religion : our author has not thought fit to recite , and much less to confute . as to the latter , the apologist produced a constitution of the jesuits ; but this the sayer saith , is a wrested interpretation , contrary to its plain meaning . but , why then did not our author venture to assign this plain meaning of it ; and to shew the meaning the apologist thought belong'd to it , to be thus wrested ? who without doubt would have thought one good argument of much better authority , than a hundred bare affirmations , tho never so positive . but he has two things yet in reserve . . that after all , the apologist can say , he cannot but own it to be a received maxim among all , even the loosest of our divines and casuists , that [ no evil is to be done , that god may come of it . ] to speak ingenuously , i do not find him so forward to own it ; but if he did ( as we cannot think they will interminis run so counter to the apostle ) yet the question is , what is evil and good ? and whether that is not good , which makes for their cause ? or whether the making for the cause , makes not that which was evil to be good. and if so , our author doth but beg the question . . he appeals to his catholicks of this nation , who quitted all rather than do an ill thing , take oaths , tests , or go to church against their conscience . the main part of this lies in the last words , against their conscience , for else that many of them did take oaths , go to church , receive the sacrament , is , i suppose , out of question . eleventh character of a pulpit-papist . this he breaks into four parts . . he changes scripture into legends . hereby the apologist shew'd was understood either that the legends are of as good authority in the church of rome as scripture ; or that in their publick offices , they used legends , where they should have used the scripture . he shews there is too much occasion given for the former amongst them , as when they own in their publick offices , that st. bridget's revelations came immediately from god to her. but here our author interposes , and saith , how does the papist change the scripture into legends , when he 's commanded by his church to own the scripture , as the word of god ? but if he owns the scripture as the word of god , because it 's commanded by his church ; then , wherein is the difference , if he be commanded by his church to believe a legend to be of divine revelation ? our author would have done a kind part if he had set us right in this matter between divine revelation and divine revelation , between the revelation for scripture , and the divine revelation for the legends . but he saith , for all this , a person is not alike obliged to assent . no! altho the church requires it ? but that , saith he , the church doth not ; for tho he may read legends if he pleases , yet he is not bound by his church or religion to give assent to , or believe any one passage in any one legend whatsoever . if he has no better authority for the latter branch , than the former , for he is not bound to assent ; than , for he may read them if he pleases ; his cause is uncapable of his support . for , how can he be at liberty , whether he will read [ hear ] them if he pleases , when they are inserted into the body of their church-service ; and are lessons chosen out for their instruction ? and he can as little say , they are not obliged to assent to them , when the church it self saith in its publick office , they come immediately from god. is it at last all come to this , that when things are instituted by inspiration of the holy ghost , as the orders of st. benedict , and were received from the holy ghost , as the rules of those orders ; and that the popes were moved by the holy ghost , as in ordaining some festivals , and declar'd others to be divinely inspired , as st. brigit , and st. catherine ; and to come immediately from god , as their offices ; is it all , i say , come to this , that he is not bound to give assent to , or believe any one passage in any legend whatsoever ? nor so much , as to believe any one to be a saint , their church has canonized ; no , not st. brigit , st. catherine , nor even the great xaverius ▪ for tho some pretended reformers ( as he calls them ) have been so easy and forward ( it seems ) as to have judged those things worthy of credit , which he was canonized for ; yet no member of the church of rome is bound to assent or believe , but he may believe , as well as read the legends of them , if he pleases ; and if he pleases he may forbear and suspend . and this our author doth abundantly confirm , by approving what the apologist produced out of bellarmin and canus , that all things contained in the lives of the saints , tho mentioned even in the canonization , depend upon human testimony , as to matters of fact , and consequently are subject to error . this , saith he , proves they are not bound to believe : i grant it as far as that goes ; but then they are not bound to believe what their church representative doth declare to be of divine revelation , and to come immediately from god. let him take which he pleases , if that will content him . but if in the mean time , their church contradicts her self , and owns that at one time to be divine revelation , which at another time has only human testimony , is the apologist bound to reconcile her to her self ? surely that is an office becoming our author himself . and till he has done it , he must excuse us if we a little doubt of the certainty of faith so much magnified in their church . here our author concludes this matter ; but the apologist went on to the latter branch , that in their publick offices they often use legends instead of scripture , and have put out scripture to bring in legends . this he proves from the design of cardinal quignonius , who in the reformation of the breviary , put scripture instead of legends ; but that was condemn'd , and the office so far brought back to its former state . this was so full a proof of what the preacher suggested , that our author thought it best to let it drop . but if he will see the character of the design , against he writes again , let him peruse the cardinal's preface , or consult espencaeus , in tom. . digress . l. . c. n. p. . which thus concludes of the former breviary , that many of the histories of the saints were so ill chose , that sometimes they begat contempt and laughter at the reading of them . this puts me in mind of a debt i am in to our author at his fourth character , who there tells us , that he cannot but admire some protestant preachers , writers , and otherwise sober lay-men of late , who take upon them to ridicule , and slightingly to wonder at the papists for this their fond credulity , forsooth , in relation to old legends , and modern lives of the saints . — this i admir'd at in him , because i find some popish preachers , writers , and otherwise sober lay-men , that are as hard to believe as the protestants , and think as meanly of them . attend we to ludovicus vives ( a man , as i have heard , ( saith espencaeus when he quotes him ) out of all suspicion of an irreligious mind ) who saith , in writing the lives of the saints , every one writ as he was affected ; so that his inclination , not truth , did draw out the history . how unworthy of the saints , and men , is the history of the saints which they call the golden legend , since it 's writ by a man of an iron mouth , and a leaden heart ? and again , there have been men who esteemed it for a great piety to devise little lies for religion . but here this good man needs a little correction ; for if a good end be in prospect , inventions of men ( how incredible soever ) may in our author's opinion be allowed ( as he suggests ) . for , saith he , there is scarce any thing in all those books objected upon this score against the papists , whether ancient or modern legends , but however incredible it may appear , yet generally is all in order to a good end , and the working christian effects in the reader . here is now a gate of mindus sufficient to let in the whole shoal of not only the mendaciola of vives , but all the heroical fictions of ecclesiastical quixotism , and to make them to become authentick . but because our author is so grave upon this argument , that i doubt he may be in earnest , let me for once recommend to him some few instances , for an exercise of his talent this way , to shew how they serve a good end , and raise the admiration of god's power , goodness and mercy . doubtless he will quit himself exceeding well , if he can inform us where the great spiritual advantage is in the relations of st. aldern's and deicoala's hanging their garments upon the sun-beams ; of st. kentigern's setting a robin red-breasts head to its body ; of st. odoaceus's turning a pound of butter into a bell ; of st. mochua's hindring by prayer the poor lambs from sucking their dams . i might run into a volume upon this theme , if it were worth the while : but i suppose these may serve for the present to entertain his thoughts , and to shew the reader how impertinent his vindication of their legends is . these are of the number of those which quignonius saith , are the subject of scorn and co●tempt ; but here are others which are so inconsistent with true religion , that their dri●do concludes they were devised by hereticks , as when the saints are said in the agony of death , to have warned or requir'd , that when translated out of this world , they should be worshipp'd , and be invoked in afflictions and dangers . it being not likely that these holy men while in this world , should be solicitous of these humours , who should rather pray with david , enter not into judgment with thy servant , o lord. . he changes sacraments into shews , priests into puppets . of this the apologist produced his instances , as . when they shew the cup to the laity , but suffer them not to partake of it . . when in their solitary masses , the priest alone communicates , and the people are only spectators of the solemnity , a practice that the council of trent approves of , and commends . . when the host is elevated at mass for adoration . . when it 's carried about in publick processions . in which cases the sacrament is only shew'd to the people , and is contrary to the end for which it was instituted . for as it was to be in remembrance of christ , so it was to be partook of , and by partaking of which , we do shew forth his death , cor. . . but to shew the sacrament , and not to partake of it , is to change the sacrament into a shew . to this our author replies , might not a jew here step in , and with this argument pretend , that christ crucified was another shew upon calvary ? but all this is nothing but a method to teach atheists , how to make the greatest mysteries of christianity ridiculous . as if christianity in its first institution was a ridiculous thing ; and he that will bring it back to its first state , and have the sacrament only so administred , and used only to those ends for which it was ordain'd , must expose the mysteries of it to the scorn of atheists . cannot christianity subsist , or the mysteries of it be sacred , without we depart from the simplicity and purity of it , and set up new institutions , or give new ends to those institutions ? and because we are for partaking of it , and not making it an empty shew ; because we are for the people's partaking of it , as well as the priest ; and for their partaking of it in both kinds , and not in one , according to the primitive institution ; must we teach atheists a method , how to make the mysteries of christianity ridiculous ? and because we declare against their elevations , and exposing the sacrament in their publick processions , and their adoration of it ; may , by the same reason , a jew step in , and with this argument pretend that christ crucified was another shew upon calvary ? but may not the jew and the atheist both step in , and deride the mysteries of christianity , when they are thus dress'd up for the stage , and are turn'd into empty shows ? when they pretend to show our saviour as upon mount calvary , and that concludes in showing the host ; and when the sacrament is call'd a communion , and it concludes in the elevation , procession , or sacerdotal participation only ? i am loth to return him his own words , those who make a shew of this , are within one step of the unbelieving jews . it had certainly better become our author to have vindicated the practice of his church , in the charge exhibited against them , and proved it absolutely false ; or tho it was true , that they do not change the sacrament into a shew , by advancing other ends than it was instituted for , and neglecting those that were proper to it . . he preaches purgatory instead of repentance . our author here replies , 't is absolutely false , inasmuch as in the plain import of the words , it imprints this notion in the hearers , viz. that the papists don 't preach repentance to the people , but instead of this they preach purgatory . but our author may remember , that when it was said upon occasion , that [ if words will make it plain , the preacher was not mistaken ] it was put by with this , that it was a childish plea. and why should not this priviledg be allowed of retorting in the same way ? but how comes this to be more the plain import of the words , than what immediately precedes ? for would it not equally follow , that when the preacher said [ they change scripture into legends , sacraments into shews , priests into puppets ] , that the plain import of the words is , they have no scripture , but legends ; no sacraments , but shows ; no priests , but puppets ? but if there be no reason to take the words in that sense in the three former , there is none to take them so in the last . and therefore , the meaning of the preacher is no other than that , whereas they should preach repentance sincerely , according as the gospel teaches , they preach purgatory , which invalidates it ( as the apologist shewed ) . this our author saith , is a mincing the matters ; but however it 's the true representation of it . but if we so take it , it 's yet , he saith , false in it self . here i expected a smart answer to the apologist , who undertakes the proof of what he asserted four ways . . as the doctrine of purgatory takes people off from one of the most powerful arguments to repentance , which is the fear of hell. . it makes them more studious of what will set them safe , than what will make them happy . . it makes them defer their repentance , because of a further allowance of time in another state . . as they may be delivered thence by the masses , alms , and prayers of the living . surely these are points of some consequence , and if they are truly infer'd , do shrewdly shake the foundations of a purgatory : if false , it would have been some gratification to have the proof of it attempted . but our author is here silent ; and falls to the proving it false in it self , forasmuch as he himself has heard many sermons of repentance , and purgatory never so much as mentioned , unless it were to shew the insufferable torments of the place , and how great the hazard is , even of getting thither . but how doth this answer the apologist's arguments to the contrary ? he adds further , a challenge to the apologizer , to find out one sermon of spaniards , french , &c. in latin , that sets out purgatory to the people , as to make them neglect repentance . but this is to beg the question ; for the point in dispute is , whether the doctrine of purgatory doth not invalidate repentance , and dispose people to neglect it . and then the preaching purgatory , as it 's set out in the roman church , is the preaching people into a neglect of repentance . . he preaches faction instead of faith. if either the preacher , or the apologist thought it worth the while to write a comment upon this , and to enlarge upon the subsequent discourse in the sermon , volumes might be fill'd , beginning at the apostolical chair , ( as it 's call'd ) and so descending to the parts belonging to that communion ; but the apologist contented himself with a bare mentioning of the pope's jurisdiction over princes , and the power be challenges of deposing them . but here instead of relieving his church , our author carries the war amongst his neighbours , always serving himself of a point , which he knows he may be safe in . however at length he appeals to their own sermons , and fairly offers , as for the faction they can discover in our preaching , let them do their best , to find even half so much ; we freely give them a thousand years to review , for to match these four of theirs . and i will dare to return the challenge , to find even half so much said for obedience and loyalty to princes in all their sermons for a thousand years as in the sermons of those four years preach'd amongst us . we find among them sermons upon sermons , ab●●● the exaltation of the pope's power , and the power of holy church over princes ; but as to allegiance and fealty to princes , whether of their own or of another religion , it 's a difficult theme , and rarely handled . but for that , saith he , let them take in likewise the sermons that are now preached in our chappels ; as if they would there preach up faction , when it is to preach against themselves . but if we would know what their zeal can do that way , let us look back to the blessed times of hildebrand ; nay , but step over sea , and review the times of an holy league ; and there we may see it venting it self in a torrent of disloyalty against their princes in the sermons of poncet , prevost , b●ucher , &c. and without doubt had it been for the glory and quietof the church to have had them published , we should have found some glorious things of this kind in the sermons , even of bellarmin himself , who we are told was employ'd as a preacher in that busy time of the league . as for what he would fix upon the sermons at present amongst us , if he could find any disloyalty of that kind , he would not be put to the hard , but his common shift of saying , they make unworthy reflections upon the religion of their prince , and insinuate fears and jealousies into the people . twelfth character of a pulpit-papist . there is a great noise of alms made in his church ; but the scope they too often vainly aim at , is the blessing of a presumed saint ; security from the external force of evil spirits , by the charms and spells of monkish conjuration , a sort of ecclesiastical magick . nay , sometimes the scope is that very wicked one of compounding with heaven by their liberal alms , for their unforsaken sins ; and here in this nation ( whilst the island was inchanted with popery ) there were granted indulgences , even for what they call deadly sins , for many thousand years to come . here our author inveighs against the doctor for writing in a strain becoming rather a play than a sermon ; because he describes their practices too much like what they are in themselves , and which he has rather fallen short of , than set forth according as they deserved . as for instance , what are their ways of exorcising , but conjurations sanctified , and bring that into the church , which should be by an anathema thrust out of it ? being such as a very valuable person , could not reflect upon without the highest indignation : and who after he had describ'd it from the ordo baptizandi , cum modo visitandi ; the pastorals , rituals , the treasure and manual of exorcisms , mengus ' s flagellum demonum , &c. he thus concludes , this is the manner of their devotion for the use of their exorcists , in which is such a heap of folly , madness , superstition , blasphemy , and ridiculous guises , and playings with the devil , that if any man amongst us should use such things , he would be in danger of being tried at the next assizes for a witch or conjurer ; however , certain it is , what ever the devil loses by pretending to obey the exorcist , he gains more by this horrible debauchery of christianity . by this the reader ( he appeals to ) may see whether the strain the doctor wrote in , was not becoming the subject . but why would not our author leave the reader to be judg , whether the doctor had justly complain'd of him for his omissions of what belong'd to the same argument ? why did he not insert the motives and the means , as well as the ends ? why was it omitted , that this ecclesiastical magick is what those wicked spirits invent and incourage ? why did he not insert the avoidance of anathema's , a deliverance from the imaginary flames of purgatory ; and their bessarion's character of their canonization ? why said he nothing of the alienation of alms hereby from their proper uses , the increase of superstition , and the maintaining of an vniversal vsurper ? why is there not a word of the catalogue of the things hereby purchased , viz. shrines , images , lamps , incense , holy-water , agnus dei's , blessed grains , roses , pebles , beads , reliques , pardons , &c. all the goodly inventory of superstition ? was it out of favour to the doctor , that this was not repeated ? and doth he think the doctor obliged , rather to give him thanks , than quarrel , for his not inserting this part of his discourse ? or have we not reason to think there was somewhat in it , which the doctor suggests , that this 〈◊〉 too particular for the purpose of men , who deal in generals , which admit of less discovery . whether the doctor ows him thanks , we have reason to question ; but the publick have , because he gave an occasion for that good defence ; and for the publishing another edition of that useful sermon . but after all his pretended tenderness for the doctor , he tells of another champion that draws him out to the full ; but what he hath done , i neither know , nor am concern'd ; but if i may judg of his performance , by his copartner we have to deal with , there is not much to be expected . but how exact and full soever that may be , yet our author in abundance of humility , resolves at last to throw away a page upon the doctor 's twenty , in the examen of his vindication ; which , he saith , he no sooner cast his eye upon , but he sees that now a doctor , he understands no more their doctrine and practices , than when a child he knew gubbard from a jesuit : a very pretty flourish , and a comparison not amiss ; for as in those days , it was no easy matter to know a gubbard from a jesuit ( tho possibly one and the same ) when gubbard could be the jesuit , and the jesuit be gubbard , as occasion served : so it is now in the doctrine of the church of rome , which is so habited and managed by men of art , that like an almanack that is calculated for the meridian it 's to serve , it 's modell'd according to the time , place , circumstances , and service it 's to respect . for in our forefathers days it was true popery , and spake as a dragon ; but in our days it comes forth with exposition and representation . if it 's likely to be for the conversion of hereticks , then it shall have the permission even of the pope himself , to shew it self abroad in this new attire ; but if a private hand shall attempt it , he shall with imbert be an heretick , and be punished as such . if it be at rome , and a cardinal is to speak his own sense , then the honour paid to an image is divine , and for the sake of the image . if it be for the service of france , and a particular case , then the same cardinal can subscribe to exposition , and it 's not so much the honouring the image , as the apostle , or martyr in the presence of the image . if it be to be suited to the humour of a great marshal , then it 's not the image , but christ , as the bishop of meaux words it ; if it be for the villagers , then it 's the image and christ , as imbert's curate . so that it seems the doctrine of the church of rome is one while a gubbard , and another while a jesuit , varying , with proteus , its forms , and taking with the camelion its colour and complex●●n , from the objects and occasions it meets with . it 's no wonder then , if the doctor , when a doctor , can no more understand the doctrine of their church , than when a child he could know gubbard from a jesuit . but however , here is doctrine and practice joyned together ; and for once we will try whether the doctor has not indeed understood both too well for our author to thank him . but why doth not the doctor understand their doctrine or practice ? it 's because he said , . sometimes the scope is , that very wicked one of compounding with heaven by liberal alms , for their unforsaken sins . our author grants then , that if this be the scope they direct their alms to [ to compound by them for their unforsaken sins ] , it 's a very wicked one . but this saith , he was without one word of proof ; and now the doctor in his defence only proves at large the practice of indulgences , but not a word of their being given for unforsaken sins . we own the power of indulgences , but that this can or may be done , either with money , or without , for unforsaken sins , this we look upon as abominable and absurd , in the sight both of god and man. but has the doctor prov'd nothing but the practice of indulgences ? has he not also prov'd beyond exception , that gain is made of them ? and that there was too great reason for that complaint in matthew paris , that christ's blood altho it be sufficient to save souls , yet the same without satisfaction applied by the pope , is not sufficient , romanorum loculos impregnare , to fill their coffers at rome ? hath not the doctor further prov'd , that by this course , they compound with heaven for their sins ? but will he say , what is this to the purpose ? yes , it is to him that saith , indulgences are not for forgiveness of sins . but he persists still , there is not a word of their being given for unforsaken sins . not a word ! what is there then amongst all that list of pardons ( as he calls it ) ? there is not , he saith , that the doctor can pretend , makes for this intent , excepting that of boniface ; which too has nothing in it for his purpose , besides his own false translation , and the perverse construction be puts upon it . the author quoted for this by the doctor , is theodorick niem , who saith , that boniface the th , ( who was an insatiable gulph , and had none like to him in covetousness ) not being content with the offerings at the jubilee , which by the death of vrban , he enter'd upon , altho they rose to a vast sum , sent his collectors with indulgences to many countrys , offering them thereby the same spiritual advantages , which they should have reap'd by coming to rome , upon the depositing so much money , as would have born their charges thither ; in which they prospered so well , that by the vending of them in one province , they carried away above a hundred thousand florins , quia omnia peccata sine poenitentia ipsis con●itentibus relaxa●unt ; because ( as the doctor translates it ) he gave ( by them ) indulgence for all sins without repentance . this , saith our author , is a false translation , and perverse construction . but why so , doth not poenitentia signifie repentance ? or is penance truly any other than repentance ? if it be , then why do the rhemists translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by penance , matth. . , & c ? but he saith , poenitentia here signifies penance , and not repentance , which is indispens●bly imply'd in their confession , which cannot be rightly perform'd without repentance . what he saith upon another occasion , may with a little alteration be fitly return'd to him . marry , if confession was never performed among them , but when it was rightly perform'd , this would be a good reason . but if confession among them be perform'd without repentance , ( as shall afterward be shewn in char. . ) then this is no reason . but besides , this is not to the purpose . for when he saith , that poenitentia here signifies penance , and not repentance , he is to fetch his reason for it from the author , whose sense is in dispute , and to consider the circumstances of the place that is quoted ; but of this he has not one tittle ; so that all that he saith , amounts to no more than this , that poenitentia here signifies penance , and not repentance ; because it so signifies : which makes me think that he never look'd into the author ; or if he had so done , he would have seen what reason the doctor had for his translation . for . it 's plain from the history , that the business in hand was to utter the pardons to the best advantage ; that in matthew paris's phrase , they might thereby impregnate the pope's coffers . . that there were no other conditions requir'd for obtaining the pardon , but confession , and paying what it might have cost them in a pilgrimage to rome ; repentance being not so much as intimated to be any part of the condition . . it 's farther evident from the very next clause , where it 's said , super quibuslibet irregularitatibus dispensatur interventu pecuniae , that provided there was money , they were dispensed with all sorts of irregularities ; telling the people that they had in this matter all the power of binding and lo●●ing , which christ gave to peter . . this is produced by the historian , as a gross abuse ; but what was there extraordinary in it , if the indulgence was ( as our author holds ) only for the relaxation of the canonical penances due to sin , upon repentance ? . this is conformable to what other authors observe in the like cases . vspergensis ( as was shewed in the apology , p. . ) relates , that upon the plenary indulgences then sent forth , they said , let me act what wickedness i will , i shall by these be delivered from punishment . and espencaeus saith , that it was evident from their proceedings , that they rather sought their money , than their repentance . by this time , i hope the doctor is clear'd from false translation , or perverse construction however our author saith , that there is not one pardon the doctor can pretend makes for his intent , besides that of boniface . but if this be for his intent , there needs no more ; yet methinks there are others look broadly this way . what thinks he of the indulgence granted to him , that saith or heareth , or beareth about him , the prayer ( which is there said to be shewed to st. augustine , by the revelation of the holy ghost ) that what he asketh of god , he shall obtain , if it be to the salvation of his soul ; and when his soul shall depart from his body , it shall not enter into hell ? here is mention made only of hearing , or reading , or bearing about him that prayer . and because he may be assured , that it shall not so be with him , as not to hear or read it ; it 's there said further , that he shall not dye of sudden death ; and that no expedient be wanting , if he but beareth it about him , he is sure to escape damnation . what can we think again of the prayer ( which they tell us st. bernard daily said , and was written in a table that hang near to the high altar in st. peter's church at rome ) which , whoso devoutly and daily saith with a contrite heart ( and we know what was meant by that in those days ) if he be that day in the state of eternal damnation , then this eternal pain shall be changed him into temporal pain of purgatory , &c. and all his sins shall be forgotten and forgiven , through the infinite mercy of god. and how backward soever our author is to acknowledg it , yet this was no strange doctrine in those merciful days ; for so clement . grants a plenary indulgence to all that died in the way to rome , and commands the angels of paradise , to carry the soul immediately to heaven . before i leave this , i shall offer these considerations in confirmation of what the doctor asserted . ( . ) that sin is unforsaken , which is unrepented of . that sin is not repented of , for which , according to them , due satisfaction has not been made . due satisfaction has not been made , when for a million of years of punishment due ( according to our author's notion ) the reciting of three prayers shall be sufficient for pardon . ( . ) that sin is not forsaken , which a person commits in hope of an indulgence , and which notwithstanding he sins in the expectation of , he shall not forfeit his interest in it . ( . ) that sin is not forsaken , which a man dies in ; and which he is encouraged to live in , from the hopes of that indulgence : such was the state of those in the maccabees ( as bellarmin salves it ) . and such indulgences have been often granted to persons at the point of death , as clement the th did give plenary indulgence to those , that in that hour call'd upon any of those five saints he had newly canonized . ( . ) sins cannot be presumed to be truly repented of , or forsaken , or could it be thought necessary so to forsake them , when they encouraged themselves to it , from an expectation of an indulgence ; as vspergensis relates . ( . ) indulgences do not suppose sins to be forsaken , or that therein persons are injoyn'd to forsake them , when they respect the time to come . which brings me to the d branch of his charge . . they have granted indulgences , even for what they call deadly sins , for many thousand years to come . here are two things asserted by the doctor . . that indulgences were granted for what they call deadly sins . . that they were granted for many thousand years to come . here the doctor complains of our author , for leaving out the proof that he produced in his sermon for it , from the horae b. virginis ; but our author has here forgot to give any recompence to the doctor for that injury . however , upon this argument it must be confess'd , that he has acquitted himself beyond all contradiction , having produced no less than three indulgences out of that very book , for deadly sins , totiens quotiens , ( as the words are ) . what reply doth the sayer make to this , for his own , or his friend mr. pulton's , or his church's vindication ? the matter is drop'd , and the charge therefore stands in full force upon record against them . pass we therefore to the next . . indulgences were granted for many thousand years to come . here the doctor insists upon the same authority , and produces instance after instance , of indulgences granted for such a term of years , as that of pope john . for years for deadly sins , and for venial . that of st. peter , and thirty other popes , for years ; of alexander the th , for years ; of sixtus . for years ; and another of john . for years . and what 's this , but for years to come . to this our author replies . . this looks like an asserting of the vulgar reproach , to wit , that [ the pope can give the papists leave to sin for many years to come ] ; and is the thing he seems willing to imprint on his readers in all the instances he has brought , by the way that he handles them . but here the doctor imprints no more on his reader , than the instances themselves will imprint , for they are in order nakedly proposed . but supposing he did assert that vulgar reproach ; our author was once ask'd , and i don't remember he ever answer'd it , what mighty difference is there , whether a man procures with money a dispensation , or a pardon ? for the sin can hurt him no more , than if he had a liccense to commit it . if a malefactor be sure of a pardon , after he has committed the crime , it 's as to himself the same , as if he had a dispensation before-hand for it ? and so it has been determined among themselves , that he that willingly commits a sin in hope of a jubile , or an indulgence afterwards to be granted , doth not lose the benefit of it . this is a case propos'd by bellarmin , and which like a cautious person he would not interpose in . here our author declares , this is most contradictory to the doctrine we are taught , and to the received notion of indulgences amongst catholicks , who are so far from presuming upon leave to sin , upon the grant of indulgences , that they don't think that any one sin that is past , can be forgiven by an indulgence . but this is protestatio contra factum ; where he has been taught his catholick doctrine , i know not ; but the time has been , when his catholicks were taught otherwise ; or else , what needed it to have been complain'd of ? thus we are told that the popes both have given , and their pardoners have thus told the people , and the people have thus believed , that indulgences were as well for the time to come , as the time past . and surely the bulls of the popes , paul . and julius . to the fraternity of the sacrament of the holy altar , contains what is equivalent to it , in which it 's provided , that the brethren may have a dormant faculty for a plenary pardon to be used when they please . but for all this , if our author be to be credited , they don't think that any one sin that is past , can be forgiven by an indulgence . and in confirmation of this , he saith , indulgences are only for the relaxation of canonical penalties due to sin , which being assigned by the church , may likewise by the same authority be releas'd . the whole of this matter will be determined by considering what indulgences are , and to what ends they were design'd , and are esteem'd to serve in their church . but here i observe , that the account given by our author of indulgences , is the same that is own'd by luther and calvin , and the rest of the hereticks , who , saith bellarmin , held , that an indulgence amongst the ancients , was nothing but a relaxation of the punishment which the church commanded . and which he therefore disputes against by several arguments ; as . there would be no need of the treasure of the church . . that then an indulgence would be rather hurtful than profitable , and the church would deceive her children . . that they could not be granted for the dead . . that many of them , who receive indulgences , do often , and are sometimes obliged to undergo canonical penance . . the form of them proves it . this i remember has formerly been put to our author , and i should be glad to find him to confute bellarmin , or to reconcile bellarmin to him . to this i may add , . that relaxation of penances , and remission of sins , are distinctly provided for in the indulgences . so in the bull of vrban . is a grant not only of relaxation , but remission . but here our author interposes , and saith , that they are so far from presuming upon leave to sin , that they don't think any one sin that is past , can be forgiven by an indulgence . and for this he will be giving a reason , because saith he , we are taught that no sin is forgiven , even in the sacrament of confession , without a sincere repentance . whether the latter be true , will remain to be considered under the next character ; but what will a reason signify against matter of fact ? for it 's still a question , whether sin is not pretended to be forgiven by indulgence ? and what more common in indulgences , than a promise of remission , and plenary remission ? as for that , saith he , whoever considers , that they were many times forgiven for many hundred years ; nay , as the doctor hath it [ and surely he hath it from themselves ] for many thousand years to come , he must soon conclude that this could not be giving leave to sin for so long time to come , which so far exceeds the term of mans life . but though it gives not leave to sin , it 's sure a pardon for sin ; and he can no more have a pardon for a thousand years past , who has lived but fifty or sixty , than have an allowance for a thousand years to come . and the doctor said not that they grant by indulgences leave to sin for many thousand years to come , but that they granted idulgences for many thousand years to come . but what saith our author to these prodigious numbers of years ? it 's , saith he , only the releasing of penances , which being assign'd in proportion to the sins , for some sins three years penance ; for others five ; might with some careless christians amount to that degree , that for fifty years of life , they might possibly have years penalties due to their sins . and we shall add for him , the of sixtus the th . and the ten hundred thousand of john the th . well , supposing this account of it to be right , and that an indulgence is only a relaxation of such penances as are due to the offence : yet , what a leave , or at least encouragement is here given to sin , when a man that has deserved to undergo or , or ten hundred thousand years of penance , shall by a bull of a pope be discharged from all this for saying three short prayers , or five pater-nosters , five aves , and a credo ? but supposing the sinner is so careless also , that after that he has run up the score to so high a sum , he has not procured such an indulgence , and that the , and the ten hundred thousand years penalties remain due , where is it that he is to undergo these penalties ? and where is it that the church in his notion , appoints , assigns , and inflicts them ? after all , methinks he had better have said , with some of their own church , that the relaxation doth not avail , as far as is promised , but it 's so declared , that the faithful might be excited to give , and the church deceives them . thirteenth character of a pulpit-papist . this he distributes into nine particulars : . if he be false and deceitful to mankind , yet euge bone serve , all is well , and he in an instant is thought worthy of a better kingdom . this he saith is absolutely false . for this he gives two reasons , . that falshood and deceit are no where recommended or taught by his church . as if his church would directly establish such propositions . and yet the council of constance comes near it , when it asserts , faith is not to be kept with hereticks . . he saith , i am certain no man of what church soever so guilty , can have admittance there , but by a sincere repentance and restitution . this is the received doctrine of his church , and i hope in their dealing they practice it as much as any . here he turns off the case in hand from the publick to the private state of affairs , and has not one word in vindication of what the apologist laid to their charge , especially in that notorious instance of the pope's solemn oration made in the conclave in commendation of the assassination of henry the third of france . as our author has here broke one sentence of the preacher's from another , and set in the midst what belongs to the sermon of alms : so he has wholly omitted assertion th . in the apology , viz. if the pope and his emissaries say the right hand is the left , the papists are bound to believe it ; which is there made good by four several arguments . but here our author is modest , and has left it to shift for it self , and his church under the heavy charge of it . . no man can be a papist , but he whose eyes are blinded by education , or he who puts his own eyes out by atheism . it 's in the sermon , no man therefore can be a papist , &c. which refers to what was there before said , and the description the preacher had given of popery , viz. . that the pope can dispence with the laws of nature , and against the old and new testament . . that the word of god is a nose of wax , a dumb judg , and dead ink. . that the pope is another god upon earth , and that if he declares the right hand is the left , we ought to believe him . and then follows , no man therefore can be a papist , but , &c. the question here is not about the lives of papists ( as our author would have it ) but about the character of popery : and then it remains to be considered , whether the preacher was right in his representation of it , and in the authorities he produces for it . but instead of bringing the case to an issue , our author in his good advice , left out what went before , and the marginal quotations of what he cited from the sermon , and now has offer'd no manner of reply to , nor so much as taken notice of the apologist's argument . . the council of trent expresseth its allowance of picturing the divinity it self , and accordingly the pictures of the trinity are ordinarily to be beheld in the popish churches . this is a new point our author has substituted ; perhaps thinking this look's somewhat better than an answer to that he has omitted ; but yet i shall take it in my way . here the preacher , . appeals to their doctrine , and for which he quotes the council of trent . . to their practice and use . as to the first , our author saith , it 's false , since the council delivers just the contrary , taking care that if it happens that the histories of the holy scriptures be painted or figured , that the people be taught , the divinity is not therefore figur'd or painted , as if that could be seen with corporeal eyes , or represented in colours . sess. . now here i observe , . our author represents the case as if the picturing of god and the trinity in their churches was much like what aaron pleads for the golden calf , i cast it into the fire , and there came out this calf ; as if it was what they find in their churches , have been placed there by they know not whom , and are like those that are to be seen , it seems , in the frontispiece of some bibles and common-prayer-books of the church of england , that come from an obscure uncertain hand ; but what they themselves do not regard . if it happens , &c. saith the council ; thus far indeed our author goes with the council , but why did he leave out what immediately follows , and why did he not read it as the council reads it ? if it happens that sometimes the histories and narrations of scripture be painted or figured ( when that shall be expedient for the unlearned people . ) so that it 's not an accidental thing , but designedly done , as an expedient for instructing the unlearned people . but however the preacher saith that of the council , which the council denies , that they picture the divinity it self ; but doth he say , that they picture what they themselves believe to be the picture of the divinity ? no surely , then he had contradicted the council , and made them downright anthropomorphites ; but he lays it to their charge that they picture and make representations of the divinity and trinity it self , as well as of saints , that is , not sparing even the divinity . o but , saith the council , these are only histories of the holy scriptures . but is there any history of scripture that tells us god did so appear in any form , otherwise than in a prophetical scheme ? and is not even that forbidden when an image of god is forbidden , because god cannot be described in any way but by what he is not ; and so is a reason against images in all , as well as any one instance ; and of which none can be proposed but what fall under the same condemnation ? as for what he hath seen in the frontispiece of some bibles and common-prayer books , they belong no more to our church , than the temple of pallas to the roman church , though existent in it . if indeed they were as commonly to be seen in our churches , were allow'd , were set up by order , and ador'd ; if he could find it defended , and the benefit they are of to the people , set forth in the articles and catechism of our church , then he had something to say ; but till that , he is guilty of a gross misrepresentation , and in his common phrase , of an absolute falshood , that saith , that the preacher's exclamation of , o hateful sight ! may be as properly apply'd to any thing of that nature in our churches . . he prays to images . this , saith he , is false too , for several reasons : ( . ) because they are taught to pray to god alone , but to none else . is that all ? it must be acknowledged they go a little further , for they desire the intercession of such holy persons as are acceptable to god , whether in heaven or earth ? but do they no otherwise desire the intercession of holy persons in heaven , than they do those in earth ? do they ask , suppose , of a confessor to be delivered from the chain of their sins , to be preserved from spiritual maladies , and hell-fire , and to be prepar'd for heaven , &c. as they ask of the saints ? or do they so much as pray to god , that he would grant that by the merits and prayers of their confessor , as well as st. andrew , they may be delivered from the fire of hell ? ( . ) he saith , for images , we confess them to be nothing but wood and stone . will he be so bold as to say this , nothing but wood , after they are consecrated ? let our author consult papist represented and not misrepresented , chap. . and will he deny that they are representers , and to be applied to as if the objects represented were present ? if he doth , why has he not bestow'd a little of his pains in chastising the apologist ? but it seems the apologist however has laid himself open in going farther , for he speaks of leaving prayers with an image . and why not as well as pray to them ? let him state the matter , and confute this , and i 'le promise him the apologist shall then give up the former . but what 's become of the christus in imagine , in curtius ? surely the city of lucca will take it ill at his hands , that he has not a word to say in behalf of their famous image , and the veracity of their historian . here i shall refer the sayer to what has been already said , char. . n. . i shall take his excuse that he makes ; for his perversion of the preacher's sense , though it had been a little more sincere , if he had positively acknowledged his fault , rather to come off with an if , when the case is evident . . he worships bread and wine , not as representations of god , but as god himself . this , saith he , is false , since we worship only god himself , and not the bread and wine , which we believe not to be in the blessed sacrament . and then he comes in with his charge of misrepresenting , and gravely adds a good rule from a worthy hand . but all is spoiled for want of proof that the preacher doth charge it upon them , that t●●y believe first of all the bread and wine to be in the sacrament : and yet worship it as god himself . but the preacher speaks not of what they believed , but what they did , as is plain by the negative he inserts , viz. here you see the bread and wine are worshipped by them , not as representations of god , which the bread and wine are , but as god himself . the preacher shews the grossness of their practice , that what is indeed but bread and wine in their substance , and a representation of our saviour , they worship as god himself . the former is what the thing is in it self , the latter he charges upon them as their practice . and therefore the sayer first mistakes the case , and then proceeds to spend a censure upon it . . he is taught , that the passion of christ takes away only the guilt of mortal sins , but not the eternal punishment . here the apologist took some little pains to state the case , and proceeded upon these heads , to shew in their way , . that the guilt may be taken away , when the punishment is not . . that the guilt may be taken away by one cause , and the eternal punishment by another . . that the passion of christ only takes away the guilt of mortal sins , but doth not take away the eternal punishment . here it might be expected our author would have enter'd into the merits of the cause , but instead of that , saith , it 's false ; gives us a short reason or two , and dismisses the point , and leaves the apology without a word of reply . . he is taught the non-necessity of repentance before the imminent point of death . this is another new point scor'd up to the account of the preachers , and was none of the twenty eight assertions in the advice . but however , i shall try whether the preacher had not authority for it . here our author offers two things : . that it 's absolutely contrary to the doctrine and general practice of their church , whose members are obliged to go to confession once a year , which cannot be perform'd without a beauty repentance . . we hear nothing so much discoursed of in our books and sermons , as deferring repentance to the last . i will not undertake for their sermons , for i am not so conversant in theirs , as he is in ours ; but in their books we find , . that they are taught that they are not bound to repent but in the danger or point of death . so navar , who affirms it to be the sense of all . . that though the church calls upon them to repent at solemn times , as easter , yet the church is satisfied in the ritual performance of it , and that true inward repentance is not thereby requir'd . . that to defer our repentance , is but a venial sin . . this is conformable to the doctrine of the church , which teaches that absolution with attrition is equivalent to confession . of this see char. . n. . . the bare saying of prayers , without either minding what he says , or understanding it , is sufficient to the divine acceptance . . so he is to appear before god dumb and senseless , like one of his idols . our author observes here , that it seems by the apologizer this saying of the preacher is not charged upon us as a profess'd doctrine of ours , but only as a consequence of his own head ; and from whence does he draw it ? from this suppos'd principle , viz. the romish church enjoyns the saying prayers in a language unknown to the generality of the people . the chain as here represented , is wholly a fiction . for after the apologist had charged him with a partial relation of the preacher's sense , he thus concludes , so that what the adviser quotes is ( not a consequence infer'd from a principle , as he saith , but ) a particular of the foregoing general , the preacher telling his auditors , that meer works done in acts of devotion in the church of rome is , in the opinion of that church , sufficient to divine acceptance ; this he fortifies with an instance , as it is in bare saying of prayers without either minding what they say , or understanding it . and he goes on : and agreeably hereunto the romish church enjoyns the saying them in a language not understood , &c. so far is it either from our author's consequence , or a principle from whence it 's infer'd . but here our author slips away from the argument of the apologist , which brought him to the exigence of owning himself a falsifier as to his charge against the preacher ; or a deserter and condemner of his own church . but why doth he now call [ the enjoyning of a prayer in a language unknown to the people ] a supposed principle ? is it not enjoyned ? there he is silent . but what if the priests do not understand ? so it has been ; so nic. clemangis saith , we see priests almost universally have much ado to read , without understanding the sense or the words ; so billet , &c. and what if the priests do understand it ? is it therefore understood by the people ? but why doth he instance in missals translated for vulgar use ? that sure he should be cautious in , for it 's an attempt stands reprobated by a great authority , as the seed-plot of disobedience , sedition , schism , &c. now which is in the right , pope alexander the th , who thus condemn'd and forbad it ; or our author , who saith , the people have the same in english ; and what will become both of priests that allow it , and people that use it , when the anathema of the council of trent is also against it , ( as salmeron , and others declare ) i shall leave as i find it . from thence our author runs to the mass , which he saith , being a sacrifice rather than a prayer , the attention and devotion of the people doth not so much consist in the words , said by the priest , as in what is done by him . but is there in the mass nothing but the oblation , nothing but action ? are there no prayers ? that he dares not say , he only softens , it 's not so much , it 's rather . and what does this signify to these parts of the service , which are not of that kind ? where then is the devotion and attention , when there is no understanding ? where the acceptance , when there is neither attention or devotion ? let him consider what the apologist said , p. , . and then he will find his appeal to their practice to be of no service to him . when all is said , he has lost the argument about the acceptance of prayer not understood , and which the apologist offer'd him authorities for . but here he supposes he has him at advantage ; and tho he lets go tolet and salmeron , yet he charges him home with somewhat worse than ignorance , for making the representer an abetter of such unreasonable doctrine , [ that to say prayers well and devoutly , 't is not necessary to have attention not on the words or sense ] when he has left out the following words , [ but rather purely on god. ] it 's an omission , i confess , a fault frequent with himself . i heartily wish our author as clear of abetting what he calls the unreasonable doctrine , as the apologist is of contrivance ; who may therefore justly return his own words in a charge somewhat worse , i can assure him , 't was not design , but mistake only . in justice to him , let us put it in , yet i don't see the case at all amended ; attention purely on god , being a distinct thing from attention on the prayers . and if he says his prayers without attending to the words or sense , whether he thinks purely on god , or thinks on any thing else , yet he is no more at these his prayers with his mind , than if he were not at prayers . for what are prayers in publick but the words and sense ? and what makes them our prayers , but attention to the words and sense ? so that prayers without attention , are much at one with prayers without understanding : and those are prayers without attention , where the words and sense of the prayers are not attended to . well , this saith our author , is unreasonable doctrine , that to say say prayers well and devoutly , 't is not necessary to have attention on the words and sense . and i hope 't is unreasonable doctrine then , that to say prayers well and devoutly , 't is not necessary to understand either words and sense . and yet this is approv'd doctrine in their church ; for saith salmeron , prayers are like the words of a charmer , they prevail even when they are not understood . i hope again , 't is unreasonable doctrine , that in prayer , 't is not necessary to attend to the sense ; nor so much as to consider he is present before god : and yet no less than cardinal tolet so determines . by this time , i hope both preacher and vindicator are set right in our author 's good opinion as to this matter . proceed we . here i expected a round charge against assertion th , that they avowedly allow what god positively forbids . it 's blunt and home , and what the apologist makes good ; but this is a dry doctrine , and so he substitutes a new one in the place . fourteenth character of a pulpit-papist . under this are reduced seven particulars . . to cover his idolatry he commits sacrilege , steals away one of the ten commandments , and by their index expurgatorius , blots the two tables themselves . this is a new charge , brought to the account , but i shall give it some consideration . this charge , he saith , is not sincere . . because they have the ten commandments in their bibles and catechism . . if they are set short in some little abstracts of christian doctrine , it 's in compliance to the weakness of some memories and capacities , setting down only the words of the precept , without the addition of threats , promises or explications . in the first of these he would insinuate , as if the d commandment is never expunged by them , which he dares not stand to . if it be expunged elsewhere , to what purpose doth he refer us to the bible and catechisms ? for if it be in the bible and catechisms , but not in the offices of the church , it 's still a true charge against them . and i remember it was both shew'd , that it was not in several of their offices , and it was put to him , to shew in what publick offices of their church it is to be found . but however , it is in their bibles , but what is this to those that have not the use of the bible permitted to them ? however , it is in their catechisms . surely our author is not sincere . for he once confess'd it to be left out in their short catechisms ; or if he is improv'd since that time in his confidence , i will produce catechism after catechism , where it is not ; such as the child's catechism , . and as for the abstracts , even in those the two first commandments are thrust into one , and often there is nothing at all of the second , but an &c. in the place , as in the abstract of the scripture catechism , an. ; which i suppose is that which he himself refers to , p. . . for his absolution , 't is not necessary he should be sorry for his sin , but only for the penance . here i presumed our author would have expatiated upon the point , and have clear'd their church ( if he could ) from the imputation charged upon them by the preacher , and maintain'd by the apologist , who shew'd from the council of trent , their catechism , and the practice of their church , that a sorrow for the penance alone ( or attrition ) with confession to the priest , is sufficient without contrition ; but to all this , our author gives no reply . . if this should fail , 't is but being at the charge of an indulgence , or pope's pardon ; that is , to purchase so many penny-worth of other mens merits : and this is what is requir'd instead of regeneration , sanctification , and a godly life . this , saith our author , involves an absolute falsity ; whilst it supposes that a papist , who is sorry neither for his sins , nor the punishment that attends them , has no more to do than to procure the pope's pardon ; and that this is sufficient instead of repentance . this is a most abominable doctrine in it self , and most injuriously charg'd upon us . and yet as abominable doctrine as it is , it 's found and prov'd upon them by the apologist , from the indulgences granted in their crusado's , and upon other occasions . but saith our sayer , the only ground for it , is the practice of some prostigate men , in the number of which he must then place several of his popes . but to all the evidence for this , our author saith not a word . of this , let the reader see before , char. . . auricular confession , their great intelligence , and leiger nuntio , is the main curb of the laity , whereby the clergy holds them in aw , in being admitted to all their secrets of states and families , thereby to work their purposes and plots : 't is a matter of meer interest ; and were there no gain in it , they would be ashamed of it . of this , he saith , it 's a most odious character of an institution allowed , even in the church of england . what , is their auricular confession , as it 's described from the council of trent in the apology , an institution of the church of england ? doth the church of england hold it necessary , jure divino , to confess to the priest , all and singular mortal sins , even the most secret , whether acts , thoughts or desires , with all their circumstances , so far as may change the nature of the sin ; and without doing which , no absolution is to be given ? he may as well say , transubstantiation is the doctrine of the church of england , because they own the eucharist , as their auricular confession is an institution of our church , because it allows and approves confession in some cases . but , what saith our author to the charge ? what to the use made of it in intruding into the secrets of states and families , and to work their projects ? what to the allegations from their own historians ? here the old refuge is made use of , silence . of this , see before , char. . n. . . ignorance is the mother of their devotion , which they are bound to by vow , and under the severest penalties . this , saith our author , is a great calumny , and an empty consequence of the preacher . methinks our author should not be so brisk upon this sermon , which he has made so extremely bold with , sometimes mollifying the sense of it , ( when it looks two broad upon them ) at other times sharpning it , leaving out and altering , as it was here , when he made the preacher say before , they are bound to vow ignorance . this , he saith , the apologizer pretends to make out . but if it be but pretence , why has not the sayer expos'd him , and run down the instances of st. benedict , francis , ignatius loyala ? i acknowledg the learning of many of their fryers and monks , but they are not beholding to their vows and rules for their learning : for the more they keep to them , the less learned they will be ; or else i know not why the jesuits are not as strictly tied up to their hours , &c. as the benedictines . but what is become of assertion . their avowed principles are to keep the people in ignorance ? where are we to expect the answer to what the apologist there produced in confirmation of it ? that 's reserved to a more convenient time . see before , char. . here again , we want an answer to what was said on assertion . they teach their people better manners , than to rely upon the all-sufficient merits of christ. all which the apologist did undetake to prove upon them . but instead of that , our author throws in a new instance to make up the defect , viz. . they must wholly submit their reason to an infallible judg , even so far ( if one of their greatest authors say true ) as to be bound to believe virtue to be bad , and vice to be good , if it shall please his holiness to say so . this , saith he , is a gross abuse of bellarmin . but first of all , what saith he to the general proposition , that they must wholly submit their reason to the infallible judg ? is that an abuse of their church ? and setting aside bellarmin for the present ; is there none of his gross doctrine to be found elsewhere ? what thinks he , if the pope should declare the right hand is the left , are they bound to believe it ? this was once call'd a misrepresentation in the preacher , but their own lyra was beforehand with him ( tho our author had the good manners to leave out the quotation ) . what thinks he of the rule of ignatius , that if the catholick church define that to be black , which appears to be white , they are bound to account it to be black ? what 's think he of meriting by believing an heretical proposition taught by his bishop ? these are cases resolved by them in the affirmative , as the apologist shew'd in the place quoted by our author ; but tho nothing could be objected against those , and the like evidences , yet it seems this is a most gross abuse of bellarmin , an inexcusable aspersion , a forgery of the preacher . but , why all this ? because , saith he , these words are not his assertion , but an inconvenience he argues from , in proof of what he had before asserted , that the pope is infallible . but if it be an inconvenience , it's what he is contented should be taken for an assertion . it 's plainly a case he puts , the general proposition in proof indeed was , that the pope could not err in things of themselves good and evil , as it 's a matter of faith ( the catholick faith teaching virtue to be good , and vice to be evil . ) the next proposition in confirmation of it is , that the church is bound to believe according to the pope's resolution of the case , vnless she would sin against conscience . the next is , supposing that the pope should command vice and forbid virtue ; then saith he , the church is bound to acquiesce in his judgment in all doubtful matters , to do what he commands , and not do what he forbids ; and lest perhaps she act against conscience , she is bound to believe that to be good which he commands , and that evil which he forbids . that the pope cannot err , is the principle he holds to ; but yet to secure the duty of the people , he breaks off the argument ; and lets it all issue in the point of the churches obedience and submission , lest they should at last find his holiness has thus err'd . well , saith he , however if it should be so , yet , as he said before in another case , it belongs not to subjects to doubt of these things , but simply to obey . and how timorous soever our author is to own it , how solicitous to bury it under the rubbish of abuses , aspersions , and forgeries ; yet others are not so bashful . even bellarmin himself elsewhere doth admit it , with some little qualification , in a good sense , saith he , christ gave to peter the power of making sin not to be a sin , and of what was not sin , to be sin . bellarmin indeed saw further than our author : he know well , that these metamorphoses had been practised by the papal authority , and if they were bound to believe that to be good which he commands , and approve that which he decrees , when what was in it self unlawful was made lawful by his determination , there was no disputing . of this we have a notable instance in pope martin the fifth , who after mature consultation , did dispense with one that had taken his sister to wife , because of the scandals that otherwise must have happen'd upon their separation . . their church-men must live a single life , whether honestly or no , it makes no matter . our author after his wonted manner , declares this to be utterly false ; it being no indifferent thing in our church whether the clergy live honestly or no. in this assertion the apologist observed there were two points contained : . that the clergy in the church of rome must and are obliged by the order of their church , and their own vow , to lead a single life . . that there is more care taken that they live single , than that they live honestly . but this saith our author is to fall much below the preacher ; but why so , what mighty difference is there betwixt saying , as the preacher , that whether they can do it honestly , it makes no matter ; or more care is taken that they live single , than that they live honestly ? for certainly not much matter is made of that , which they take no reasonable care in . but however he will not allow the proof of it offer'd in the apology ; which , saith he , is this chiefly , because the punishment for a clergy-man that marries , is much greater than for one that keeps his concubine . the matter of fact he allows , and indeed it was undeniably prov'd against them . but this , he saith , is not to the purpose , it being as if i should say , that according to the principles of the church of england , it matters not , whether her members turn turks , or no : and then should bring this for proof , because she has severe penalties , even of death it self for such as become papists , but none at all for those that turn turks . but this is far from the case ; for laws are made according to the state and exigence of affairs , and the cases that fall out , or probably may fall out , and the damage done thereby to the community : but where there is no danger or damage in prospect , it 's a ridiculous thing to make a law. the danger here was from the papists , and their practices against the government , which was the reason of those laws : but there is no danger of the members of its church turning turks , which is the reason why there is no law against it . and his argument would be much as if it should be said , that according to the principles of the greek church it matters not whether her members turn heathens ; and then should bring this for proof of it , because she has severe penalties , even death it self for those that turn turks ( for they that so turn are not received into the church without as openly renouncing , as they profest mahometism , which is death ) but none at all for those that turn heathens . if he had put the case right , it should have been thus , that by the laws of england it is death to turn papist , and a fine of s. to turn turk , in the same circumstances of danger ; then it had look'd speciously enough that they took more care that they should not turn papists , than turks . and so we have brought the case home . for if when a clergy-man is found married , he must be separated or depriv'd ; but if he keeps a concubine , he is fin'd but s ; it 's evident , which is the worst crime in the opinion of the church of rome . our author saith , this was the chief argument of the apologist ; and if so , methinks when he had dismist this by a comparison , he might at once have blown off what remains . but though he has not thought fit to set the rest before the reader , yet i shall offer them to his consideration . in further confirmation of this charge , the apologist appeal'd to their allowances , as priests marriage is absolutely forbid without any relaxation or dispensation , but concubinage has been openly allow'd and licensed ; it 's further confirmed by their resolution of the case , when they account concubinage and fornication a less sin in a priest than marriage . these , it seems , were inconsiderable ; so neither the argument , nor the authorities vouch'd for them , deserved an answer . and for company our author has dismist also assertion . viz. the reason why the clergy are bound to live single , is for fear lest having wives and children they should give the state security of their obedience to their sovereign . i have now done with our author 's characters , which consist partly of matter of fact and observation , partly of doctrine of their own , and partly of inferences from , and arguings upon them . in the two former of which ( which are the proper subject of representation ) i have shew'd there has been nothing charged upon them by the preachers as to principle , practice or fact , which they had not good evidence for ; and was so far from being a fiction of their own , that they condemn them out of their own mouths . as for the latter , it belongs not to the case before us ; but yet that nothing might be wanting to give our author satisfaction , the arguments produced by the preachers against the church of rome have been considered , and justified . so that in conclusion i may here challenge him to shew that there is any principle or doctrine , which is not a principle of theirs ; or a practice , which is not a practice ; or a consequence which is not truly inferr'd from them . i do not think that a misrepresentation can be justly chargeable upon a mere mistake , no more than it is upon the inconsequence of an argument : but it 's a wonder to me , that amongst the ten thousand pulpits , ( as he reckons them ) and the multitude of writers in the church of england , and under all the provocations they have met with , and in the heat of argument , there can be nothing material produced against them , notwithstanding the utmost diligence could be used , and the reading of volumes of sermons on purpose to make a discovery . were they indeed guilty of misrepresentation , and that there was no praying to images in the church of rome ; no compounding with heaven for vnforsaken sins ; no worshipping bread and wine , as god himself ; no saying prayers without attention ; no divisions among themselves ; no renouncing their senses , &c. yet we know where these would be match'd , when our adversaries tell us , the protestants have no god , no faith , no religion ; but are meer atheists , and worship the devil , as possevine and prateolus teach . that to run down popery , tho he know nothing of it , is to be a true son of the church of england . that interest and passion puts the preachers upon arguing in defiance to their own conscience , ( which our author , it seems , knows better than themselves ) . or as a late author , that libertinism is the sole profession , and the very soul of all sectaries ; [ that is , those that are not in communion with the church of rome ] that the false church [ that is , all but themselves ] and religion , hath no other but vile hypocrites . that it professeth the broad and large way leading to destruction , granting libertinism to the highest degree of wickedness in one kind or another . into which , whoever enters , for saking the true , begins presently to leave all goodness , and becomes an outcast and scum of the earth , as to all wickedness and prophaness . that it enjoys no true spirituality , but brainsick phancy ; and there was never any sound spiritual book written by them . they have the lord in their mouth , but their hearts are far from him . that by reason of its wicked obstinacy and libertinism , it brings all the professors thereof to disobedience , and takes away all neighbourly love and just dealing one with another , and hereby bringing ruin and confusion upon all commonwealths , &c. if so much had been said of the church of rome ; what a rout had here been ? what a mustering up of misrepresentations , calumnies and abuses ? what arguing in defiance to their own conscience ? but i will here excuse the author of the mirror , for he that can be so ignorant , as to tell us , that the creed of pius th ( which he at large rehearses ) was the constant profession of faith in the days of austin the monk , an. . and can quote that monk's letter to pope gregory for it , may , for ought i know , think as he writes , and so his representations of the sectaries , and of the profession of pope gregory's faith be equally true , and what he equally understands . but our author is not alike excusable : for whatever he may know concerning the days of austin the monk , i know not ; but what he writes about , belongs more to his own , and so if he falls in with misrepresentation , his conscience must be the more concerned : and which after all he is so far from making good , that he is forced to use all the shifts that one conscious to himself of infirmity , and subtle enough to conceal it , can contrive ; which for a conclusion to the whole , i shall now a little enquire into . . the first artifice he uses , is disclaiming and renouncing , after this manner , if to be a papist , is to be that which is describ'd in these characters ; i declare , i am none , and that i am so far from undertaking apologies for men of such practices and belief , that i here profess a hearty detestation of all such engagements . — if this was so , i concluded i had certainly fall'n into the very mouth of hell-doctrines , i as much abhor , as hell and damnation it self . if this be to be a papist ; then certainly , to be a papist , is to be the worst of men. — and 't is so far from being a doubt , whether he be a christian , that 't is certain he can be none ; and that if he be bound to believe and live according to the principles here laid down , he can have no right to salvation . — whatever church would receive him with the profession of all those scandalous doctrines the pulpits charge against us , i would be sure to be no member of it ; and if there were no other , but that church amongst christians , i would then begin to look towards turky . nay , he advances further , whoever will be a good papist , must instead of assenting to , disclaim every point that is here set down by the pulpits , as articles of his religion . let us now try our author , in some one of these scandalous and abominable doctrines , who comes thus arm'd cap-a-pie , with detestations , abhorrencies , disclaimings , and see whether he be invulnerable . what thinks he of the first of those , he calls , follies and abominations , viz. praying to images , and attributing satisfaction and expiation to a crucifix of wood and stone ? what doth he think of the office of consecration , where it 's pray'd that god would bless the wood of the cross , that it may be a saving remedy to mankind , a stability of faith , the redemption of souls , & c ? how would he behave himself in the company of cardinal capisucci , who maintains that the worship is to the image ? how in the presence of the arch-bishop of bourdeaux , who defended the curate's , to the word , the wood , against imbert's , to christ , and not to the wood ? could he bear up to them , and tell them it 's infamous , that they are no christians , and have no right to salvation ? which doth he think would there be the misrepresenter , our author that dooms this to the pit of hell , or those that defend it ? of this artifice , see the view , p. . . another artifice is to confound the consequences drawn by the protestants from their principles , with their principles , and to make the consequence to be their principle . this he was formerly tax'd with in doct. and pract. and view , p. . and yet he proceeds still in the same order . so because they are accus'd of idolatry , therefore he makes that to be part of the character of a papist , and then disavows it . thus he saith , were popery so foul as 't is in the opinion of the vulgar ; did it teach men idolatry , to worship any creature for god , to neglect the commandments , i would chuse rather to be a jew , turk , or infidel , than a papist . all which signifies nothing , unless the papist should believe himself to be an idolater . . we must beware again , that we follow him not too close , or think after all these disclaimings and abhorrings , that he is plainly to be understood ; for there are certain reserves and expositions carefully couch'd in , that he may retire to upon occasion . such as these , a papist is bound to disclaim every point here set down , as articles of his religion , and as they are obliged to the profession of them , so to believe and live — according to the form asserted in the characters , as here set down . so that tho they are never so plainly prov'd upon them ; yet if they are not articles of his religion , nor what they are obliged to believe and do , or agree not precisely with the form , and as set down in the characters , he may safely abhor , detest and damn them . . if he be press'd home , and the authorities come thick , or the practice and use be urg'd a little too close ; he has yet a relief . i found , saith he , a great number of matters of fact , as massacres , vsurpations , murders of princes , treasons , plots , conspiracies , persecutions , and other such unwarrantable practices , charg'd against the members of this church [ of rome . ] i found again the vicious and scandalous lives of some of her chief prelates , their pride , covetousness and luxury , laid home , as likewise the ill examples of other ecclesiastical dignitaries , as of cardinals , bishops , priests ; their ignorance , simony , oppression , cruelties , excesses , &c. then the loose and extravagant opinions of many of her doctors . lastly , many superstitions and abuses found amongst the people , their being impos'd upon by some with idle inventions , the noise of relicks and miracles , and being priest-ridden a thousand other ways . this is in truth a charge , as he saith , laid home . it 's worth attending , how he brings himself off ; why , here , saith he , i began to lay aside all trouble and scruples concerning my religion , being now well satisfied ; how , that all this was false ? not so quick , but that the frightful character , which surprized me before , ( the matter of which it seems is true ) was not taken from her faith and doctrine , but only from the vice and wickedness of such , who tho perchance in her communion , yet follow'd her direction : and that 't was rather a black record of as many villanous practices , as ever had been committed by any of her members , sham'd upon the people . what , as false ? that he dares not say ; but for a draught of such things the church taught , encourag'd and approv'd . what work is here for a protestant representer ? a bedroll of abominations ! but saith our author by way of prevention and alleviation , it 's a character taken from the vice and wickedness of such , who were perchance in her communion . how ! popes , cardinals , bishops , priests , but perchance in her communion . has our author at last got possession of the keys of the inquisition , and can he bring even popes , &c. before his bar ? that may sound a little too harsh ; therefore the result is , that it 's sham'd upon the people , for such things the church taught , encourag'd , and approv'd . so that , let the doctrine prevail never so much , the teachers be never so many , the practice never so bad , yet here is a shield , the church has not taught , &c. i remember it was once put to him , and i find it not answer'd , we are often blam'd for charging particular doctrines upon their church , but we desire to know what it is makes a doctrine of their church . he tells us , we are not to charge upon them every opinion of authors , for the profess'd religion of papists , — not the loose and extravagant opinions of many of her doctors ; not the different opinions of school-divines , nor the niceties a parson designedly enters amongst ; but if we come to set authority against authority , i know not why an aquinas , a bellarmin , a suarez , &c. may not vye with our author , and as soon be heard . and why a profession of his own , that i have declar'd nothing as an article of faith , but what has been thus positively determined by the church representative , or is so acknowledged by the whole body diffusive , ( which it seems he has consulted ) should bear down the authority of many of her doctors and school-divines , when they both have come forth with the approbation of their church , and never were condemn'd by it , for teaching against it . and now the controversy is depending betwixt them , and we are to attend which gives the most faithful account of the doctrine and practices of the church of rome ; the schoolmen of old time , or the representers of this . . when all other helps fail , he has one yet in reserve , for the ending of this controversy , which is a challenge he throws out to the author of the answer to the representers reflection upon the state and view , and not to him , but to all the ministers ; nay , to all the protestants of this nation : [ shew us the papists to agree with those characters , that have been given them out of the pulpits . ] this is the sum of no less than ten pages he has wrote in reply to this . but now , besides the uncharitableness of this course , which is to enquire into the lives of those of his communion , and to make descants upon them ; and which when he appeals to , he gives a provocation not to be very overly in : besides this , it 's of no use here ; for , . it 's an argument that is contingent , and ( . ) which any sort of people may venture at . thus the turks may challenge the christians , whether they be the people the christians represent them . let them come and see ( may they say ) whether we are not as temperate , as just , &c. as the greeks among whom we live ; and if religion were to be judg'd of , as to its truth and goodness by such a comparison , whether we might not as well pretend to it as the other . and if they find us in all things like the rest of mankind , without more horns and heads , then who are the misrepresenter ? and yet , thus our author argues . this the protestants may turn upon the papists after this manner , shew us the protestants that agree with the papists character of them . there are few papists , but have some relations , neighbours , correspondents , acquaintance , or conversation with some protestants . what i require of them then , is to compare these protestants they know , with the ideas , notions , and characters of a papist-protestant , that is , with the notions that have been taught them by their priests , pulpits , and books . let 'em tell me upon due consideration , whether they are meer atheists , and worship the devil , and act in defiance of their own conscience ; and profess the broad way leading to destruction , and grant libertinism to the highest degree of wickedness , &c. ( . ) it 's contingent , as the same persons and people may be good and bad , better and worse in divers states and circumstances . if this be a good argument , it will always be so in all ages and cases ; and go where you will , and take them where you will , you will always find the papist to answer our authors character , and never to come up to the pulpit-character of him . but i dare say , our author will not allow this to be a fair method of proceeding ; and that for example , a protestant should describe a papist according to the great number of matters of fact , which with our author he may find by writers of their own , charg'd upon them , such as massacres , vsurpations , murders of princes , treasons , plots , conspiracies , persecutions ; the vicious and scandalous lives of some of her chief prelates , [ popes ] their pride , covetousness and luxury ; as likewise , the ill examples of other ecclesiastical dignitaries , as of cardinals , bishops , priests ; their ignorance , simony , oppression , cruelties , excesses , &c. and i may add , the dissoluteness of manners prevailing throughout the papal dominions in some ages . was ever this the state of the papacy ? if it was , as our author cannot deny , then why may not we take the character of a papist from such an age , as well as the age or place where we live ? or , why not from another country , as well as from our own ? this indeed our author sometimes refers to . for , saith he , this [ that 't is only mistake and passion makes popery so deform'd a monster ] every one will conclude to be true , who has taken a prospect of holland , and those towns of germany , in which papists and protestants live together in one corporation , under the same laws , and making use in some places , even of the same churches too ; and this with such freedom , amity and good correspondence , that their different communion cannot be easily discovered ; and a man that should come out of england , with his head glowing with our pulpit-popery , would not be easily convinc'd of the being of any papists there . now 't is certain , the papists here and there are of the same church , principles and faith , and 't is no difference in this kind , makes them there like other men , and here like monsters ; but 't is because there the papists are what they are , and here they are made to be what they are not , but what their maligners please to render them . i might here shew how far our author is out in matter of fact , that tho these live together , yet it is with great difference . however , supposing what he saith to be true , yet that is no fit way to judge of their religion by ; since whatever freedom , amity , and good correspondence they have or exercise , is not from their church , principles and faith , but from other reasons which are political , such as interest and self-preservation , &c. for if it was from their church , principles and faith , popery would be all over the world the same popery as it is in holland , and the places of germany he speaks of . but there is a vast difference betwixt popery and popery ; betwixt popery when it is alone , and popery when it is diluted with protestantism . and if we would know what it is , the fairer way to judg of it , is where it is alone ; not as in holland , and germany , or england , but as in italy , spain , portugal , and i may add now in france . for there is the church , principles , and faith , in puris naturalibus ; and if we are to be referred to judg of what it is , by the lives and practices of its professors , thither in reason we are to go ; pass we over the alps , and the pyrenean mountains , or indeed the narrow seas , and there we may take a better view and prospect , than in a few converts here ; who yet i doubt will generally be found without being rigorously observ'd , not to have chang'd their lives for the better , no more than their religion . . after all , this is not to the purpose . for the question is , what is popery , and whether the pulpits have truly represented it or not ? and popery certainly was not there describ'd from the lives of the present professors of it in this nation ; but from its principles , and the practices of their church in conformity to those principles . our author surely will acknowledg that popery is always the same , that it is what it hath been , and it hath been what it is ; and if so , his way must conclude against it self ; unless he will say in all ages , and all countreys , men of that religion have lived alike ; and therefore , to know whether the pulpits have represented popery aright or no , we must go not to the lives of any age or place alone , nor to the refinements and expositions of a new generation , but to the authorities the preachers went upon . but this is a troublesome task , and what suited not our author's temper or design ; and so he quitted the one for the other . it 's a pleasant entertainment to write a character , or a representation ; the pen runs smoothly along , when it has comparison before it , and all the business is to describe , invite , or inveigh ; but when there are breaks and interruptions ; when it is to argue closely , to manage an argument , or to answer it , it requires another sort of talent ; and what our author warily avoids . and if he is beat out of his road , and the artifice has been detected , yet it shall go hard , if he finds not out some retrenchments to secure himself . thus has he proceeded from representation to reflection , from reflection to protestation , from protestation to accommodation , from accommodation to reflection again , from reflection to caution , from caution to character ; and at last , for the ending of this controversy , to prospect ; that is , from the principles and practices of the papists , he appeals to their lives amongst us . this is his last refuge , and if that fails him , it is but to find a new title or method , and then he appears without wound or scar. and he may in the conclusion of his book , tell the world what feats he has done , what religious frauds he detected , and how unsuccessful he render'd them in his first book . so that if his reader be as credulous as he himself is confident ●nd secure in his own good opinion , this may be a windingsheet to the ●ontroversy , and his adversaries be eternally silenced . but if the reader casts his eye a little back , he will see from point to point , how he has left the cause to shift for it self . and whereas , now it had become him to have discharg'd himself from so gross an imputation , we must be contented to have one answer to that , and all the rest , that they are too impertinent to deserve any . such we are to account the charge of his representing by halves ; of continuing his misrepresentations without replying to the answers ; of his not answering the view ; of his common , but vain allegation , that we pretend to know popery better than they themselves ; of his abusing mr. montague ; of his insincerity , particularly , when he offers to receive us into the church of rome upon his representing terms ; and when he professes to detest some doctrines and practices charged upon the church of rome , &c. but here he will say , i make too much haste , for the two last points he has reply'd to in the close . but truly it 's after such a manner , and so faintly , as if he hop'd 't would be overlook'd . as for example . as to the first he replies , this offer may be said to have been answer'd over and over . but the matter of fact defeats all those answers , and is a demonstration that they are nothing but shuffling . now what is this matter of fact , and where is this demonstration ? that follows for whilst a man may be received upon those terms , and yet cannot be received unless he assents to the faith of the church , 't is evident , that in that character , the faith of the church is truly represented . any one that reads this , would be apt to think that the matter of fact had never been questioned , or had been prov'd to a demonstration , beyond possibility of reply . but besides what has been before answer'd to it over and over , as he confesses , it was particularly considered by the answerer to his reflections , and the offer , . shew'd to be a ludicrous one , made without good faith , and with no other meaning than to put some colour upon his deceitful characters of a papist . . it was replied further , that suppose we could accept , and should be accepted upon the terms he propounds , yet we have no security that when we are in , this representer either can , or will , if he could , save us from being prest to profess and practice that popery which he either denies or conceals . and that because on the one hand we are certain that the prevailing part of his church holds that , which he either rejects from his faith , or says nothing of , and that agreeably to their councils and publick offices . and on the other hand , we have no reason to believe his authority in the roman church to be considerable enough to carry on his representation , when the turn is once serv'd . here the answerer appeals to the case of imbert , of the physitian at goa , and last of all to that of the poor citizens of orange , p. . the answerer shews further , that we have not any good reason to trust him , he having not given us any reasonable assurance that himself rejects that popery , which he exclaims against . and last of all he puts this question , whether he would refuse us , if we desired to come into the roman communion , with that which we call old popery . to all which our author replies after this manner : . our new adversary has one cavil here to put in , viz. [ that the character of the papist represented , is not a good character , because the faith of a papist as stated under each article , is not all his faith. ] our author has been so unkind as not to refer us to the page for these words he pretends to quote from the answ●● ; and i think after a careful perusal , i may safely lodg them at his own door , as an instance of his misrepresenting faculty . any one that knew the answerer , and is conversant in his way of writing , knows well he had too clear a head to express himself in so insipid and nonsensical a way as our author would fasten upon him , and so as to argue against the truth of the character , because the faith of a papist , as stated under each article , is not all his faith. but however the argument is not so obscure , as his answer to it is impertinent , as might be shewn , were it to the purpose before us . . he proceeds , this man has still another scruple , that ( if he should come into our church upon the terms i have proposed , whether i will be security , that he shall not be prest to profess and practise that popery , which i have either deny'd or conceal'd ) to this our author answers after a surprizing manner : marry ( saith he ) if he means by that popery , the pulpit-popery , i 'le give him the same security i have my self , viz. the assistance of the holy ghost promised to his church , which will never permit it to lead her members into such abominations . he may have the security too of a good conscience , which cannot be prest to the profession of so much evil . but what is his security worth ; or how can he plead the holy ghost's assistance for not being led by her into such abominations , when she pleads it for their belief and practice ? our author would be understood , that he calls not an image or crucifix out of its name when he saith it's an image of wood or stone ; and that he speaks consonantly to the sense of his church , when he saith the image is not adored or pray'd to , but christ or the saint in the image . and yet the french physician was clap'd up in the inquisition for the former ; and the condomian imbert was imprison'd for the latter . and surely the inquisitors of goa , and archbishop of bourdeaux are themselves of that church which he saith has the promise of the holy ghost , &c. and who shall decide this case , or what security have we against 〈◊〉 ●●●●tians fate , if at goa , or of imbert's , if in the diocess of bourdeaux ? well , but however , saith he , a man may have the security of a good conscience , which cannot be prest to the profession of so much evil . how not be prest ? what is pressing if the dragoons of orange be not ? what , if not the prison of bourdeaux ? what , if not the inquisition at goa ? o , but conscience cannot be prest to the profession of it . a very comfortable inducement to comply with the terms of the representer ; for you may come into the church upon them ; and if wh●n come in , the church will oblige you to , profess abominable things ; however conscience is free , and the inquisition it self cannot force it ; and if you be sincere , you will never be prest by that or any external violence , to the profession of so much evil . it 's well our author is not at goa to have his sincerity try'd . but yet he hath not done . for he adds , . in this ( the answer above given ) he may see his other material question answer'd , [ whether he may be admitted into our communion , with that which he calls old popery ? ] for if his old popery be the pulpit-popery , he sees we reject it ; and i tell him , that whatsoever church would receive him , with the profession of all those scandalous doctrines the pulpits charge against us , i would be sure to be no member of it . here our author slinks away from the case . for as soon as ever the answerer had put the question , he proceeds ▪ will the representer take us by the hand and present us to his church , if we should come with the lateran popery about deposing soveraigns for heresie , and with the trent - popery about the worship of images , as it is understood by bellarmin , or rather by capisucchi , and as it is practised by the tartuffs of the roman church , and with all that old popery , which the former answerer gives an account of ? why has not our author laid the case as it was put to him ? why not the old popery of lateran , bellarmin and capisucchi , as well as pulpit-popery ? and when he has thrown the cover of pulpit-popery over it ; yet why must he needs add , with all the scandalous doctrines the pulpits charge ? for surely if there be such abomination in them , any one of them should be sufficient to an honest soul to fly the communion , where the belief or practice of it is requir'd . well , let schoolmen and cardinals , aquinas and scotus , bellarmin and capisucchi , let old missals and rituals , nay let councils , the old one of lateran , and the new one of trent , be call'd in , they are but tartuffs ; for exposition and representation are now the standard of romish doctrine . and if the tartuffism of deposition of princes , and adoration of images , and the rest of the once old and new pulpit-popery be part of its faith and doctrine , we have our authors word for it , i would be a turk as soon as their papist . a very gross affront sure to those venerable heads ; and if he hath not some reserve , and somewhat of the art of cardinal capisucchi , may throw him into bad circumstances , and he would do well to keep from goa or bourdeaux , left a recantation or somewhat worse be the effect of such a frank declaration . but it seems after all the protestations , and abominations , the answerer was not satisfied in our author's sincerity , and would bind him to hard terms , which is to tell us in particular what those monstrons things are that he so frequently declares against ; which because our author answers only in general to , i shall remind him of , and conclude . it s this , here i challenge you to declare what those particulars are , those monsters , those doctrines and practices which you do detest and abominate ; and if you refuse so to fasten upon you the mark of insincere and juggling , for offering that all be received into the church of rome without them . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e papist . misrepr . pref . doctr. and pract. p. . pulpit-sayings , p. . epist. to the reader . ibid. p. . p. . to the reader . doctr. and pract. p , . to the reader ; and p. . doctr. and pract. p. . view , p. . to . p. . , . to the reader . pulpit sayings , p. . good advice to the pulpits p. . apology for the pulpits , p. . pulpit sayings , p. . pag. . to the reader . pag. . pulpit-saying , pag. . ibid. character , , , , , . p. , &c. p. . to the reader . p. . fox's &c. part . p. . and . exact . collect . p. . lond. . l'histoire des troubles de la grand bretagne , p. . foxes and firebands , pt. . p. , &c. ibid. p. , &c. the copy of this was taken out of the registry of the episcopal see of rochester . pulpit-sayings , pag. . legatio philippi , . and . paulo . & gregor . . per luc. wadding . p. . char. . epil . to trag. l. . c. . p. . char. . de sacram. poenit. sect. . ibid. sect. . catech trid. art. symb. . sect. . edit . lugd. . char. . lib. omnem probum esse liberum . char. . somners antiq . of canterb . p. . caesar. hist. memor . l. . c. . de purgat . l. . c. pap. repres . and not misrepres . ch. ● . chap. . p. , . . chap. . p. , . chap. . p. . chap. . p. , . and chap. . p. . p. . histoire de'l inquisition de goa , chap. . char. . char. . apology , p. , . sayings , p. . p. , . l. vives ad calcem libri de corruptis artibus . espencaeus ut supra . lib. . sayings , p. , . de dogmatibus & libris apocryphis , l. . c. . & espencaeus ut supra . sayings , p. . maimburgs history of the holy league , l. . p. . l. . p. . l. . p. . l. . p. . char. . bp. taylor 's disswasive from popery , sect. . defence , p. . exposition of the doctrine of the church of england , preface . in hen. . de schismate l. . c . . p. . sayings , p. . in tit. digress . . . turpilucri . defence , p. . ibid. p. . bulla clem. . ultraject . a. d. . defence , p. . de purgat . l. . c. . sect. ad quintum . bull. to . . p. . doctrines and practices , c. . p. . l. . c. . de indulg . sect. altera . review du concile de trent l. . c. . gravam . ger. n. . paris , . de indulgent l. . c. . sect. . propositio , &c. doctrines and practices , c. . p. . bullar . to. . p. . altisidor . sum. l. , &c. char. . serm. p. , , . entretiens de philalethe , &c. p. . p. , &c. orat. propr . enchir. c. . n. . reginaldus de contrit . l. . c. . soto in sent. dist. . q. . art. . concl. a. c. . in cassandri liturg. collectio quorundam auth. cum decretis par. . in cor. . disp. . sayings , p. . sum. par . . tit . . instruct. sacer . c. . n. , . char. . doctrines and practices , c. . p. . pap. misrep . c. . sect. ac ut rem . c. . in barklaium . antonini summa . see the view , p. , &c. see before , p. . sayings , p. . the mirror of truth , p. , , &c. . mirror , p. , . epistle to the reader . sayings , p. . p. . to the reader . to the reader . see before char. . to the reader , p. . to the reader , p. , , . p. . to the reader , p. , . doctrin . and pract. p . to the reader . p. . p. . p. . p. . to the reader , p. ● . to the reader , p. . sayings , p. . sayings , p. . answer to the representers reflect . on the view , p. . sayings , p. . answer to the repr . reflect . p. , &c. sayings , p. . answer to reflec p. . sayings , p. . pag. . pag. . answer to reflect . p. . an impartial consideration of those speeches, which pass under the name of the five jesuits lately executed viz. [brace] mr. whitebread, mr. harcourt, mr. gawen, mr. turner, and mr. fenwick : in which it is proved, that according to their principles, they not only might, but also ought, to die after that manner, with solemn protestation of their innocency. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an impartial consideration of those speeches, which pass under the name of the five jesuits lately executed viz. [brace] mr. whitebread, mr. harcourt, mr. gawen, mr. turner, and mr. fenwick : in which it is proved, that according to their principles, they not only might, but also ought, to die after that manner, with solemn protestation of their innocency. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for richard chiswell ..., london : mdclxxix [ ] attributed to williams by wing and nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng whitbread, thomas, - . barrow, william, - . gawen, john, - . turner, anthony, or - . caldwell, john, - . popish plot, . anti-catholicism -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an impartial consideration of those speeches , which pass under the name of the five jesuits lately executed . viz. mr. whitebread . mr. harcourt . mr. gawen . mr. turner , and mr. fenwick . in which it is proved , that according to their principles , they not only might , but also ought to die after that manner , with solemn protestations of their innocency . london : printed for richard chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxix . an answer to the late speeches of the five jesuits . the words of dying persons have always been esteemed of greatest authority , as mr. harcourt in his speech doth observe : and at the first sight , what was spoken by him and his associates just before their execution , doth seem to command it ; when mr. gawen after the like preface doth add , i do solemnly swear , protest and vow by all that is sacred in heaven or on earth , and as i hope to see the face of god in glory , that i am as innocent as the child unborn , &c. a speech of so great assurance , that if it were not for the clearness of the evidence that was brought in against them , the impartiality of the court which they stood before and were condemned by , the order which they were of , and the cursed principles held by that order ; and lastly , other things spoken by them at the same time that were manifestly untrue , i should have had so much charity as to believe . but when all this and more doth appear against them , and confute what they have with so much confidence maintained before god and the world , it will be a work of justice and charity to detect their hypocrisie , and to shew that the jesuits have a gospel by themselves . and this i shall do : first , by shewing that their present case is such , that although they had been guilty , such a protestation of their innocence was necessary , if it might be consistent with the principles of religion . secondly , that such a protestation is consistent with their principles , and what is agreeable to the practice of their order . thirdly , that from the consideration of their circumstances , and a careful perusal of what was said by these persons at the time of their death , there is sufficient reason to believe that they acted upon such principles . first , it was necessary for them at this time , and in their circumstances , tho never so deeply guilty , to stand upon their own vindication , and to vindicate themselves after the most solemn way imaginable . for if this plot should be believed , and they discovered to be the contrivers and promoters of it , it would be a foul blemish to their religion , and so great a disparagement to their society , that all their art and industry could never be able to wipe it off . it would awaken the princes of christendom , and they would never think themselves secure till this order followed that of the templers , and was universally dissolved and extirpated . it would make those that mean well too among themselves to abhor them , and open a fair way for protestantism to enter in upon them . and therefore it concerned them as much as might be to prevent it ; and how could it be prevented , but by this way that they have taken . for if they had been silent under so great a charge as this , all the world would have concluded them guilty ; or if they had but faintly denied it , when the evidence was so full and peremptory against them , the suspitions that are abroad would have increased , and the evidence already given in would be further enquired into and made out . it was not a sorry evasion , or some puny equivocation that would put a stop to these mischiefs , and set them right in the opinion of the world , as they well enough understood ; and therefore it concerned them , if the honour of their religion , or that of their society was dear to them , to betake themselves to the most formal protestations to ensure it ; if so be it might be done with consistency to their religion , or their own safety in another world. secondly , i shall therefore shew that such protestations are consistent with their religion , and that altho they were never so guilty , they might stand upon their own innocency and justification to the death . and that is to be done upon these principles . ( ) if what they are charged with be made legitimate by a superior authority . ( . ) if they are under a precedent and sufficient obligation not to confess what they are justly charged with . ( . ) if they are indemnified and declared innocent . ( . ) if they are charged before an incompetent authority . ( . ) if the charge it self be laid wrong . first , if what they are charged with be made legitimate and allowable by a superior authority ; which may be done two ways . first , by a dispensation from the pope , or by others ordinarily deputed thereunto in their church . this is what they do now deny amongst us , confidently maintaining that a dispensation is never given beforehand . but this is vainly alledged , whether we consider the nature of a dispensation , which hath a relation to an action yet to be done , or to the continuation of it ; or whether we consider the practice of their church , of which we have a very modern instance . for whereas the marrying of a brothers wife , the brother being yet alive , is both contrary to the law of god and nature ; there is a prince now in the world that is dispensed with in that matter , and enjoys the wife and kingdom of his brother by virtue of the popes authority . now if the pope hath a power of altering the nature of things , and of giving a dispensation for what would without that dispensation have been in it self unlawful ; then the doing of an action otherwise evil is , by virtue of that dispensation , no sin ; and he that hath that for his authority , is so far innocent . secondly , the action may be made legitimate , by virtue of the command of such a superior , as they are bound fully and universally to obey . and this is the case of the jesuits , who are under a perfect subjection to their superiors , and whose commands they are not to dispute . this is the first thing which they are taught , to be so conformable to the catholick church ( which in their sence is the pope ) that if it defines that to be black , which appears to them to be white , they are notwithstanding without more ado to account it black a . and this is an obedience which they are not only bound to yield to the apostolick chair , but to the rest of their superiors , and which their founder ignatius writ an epistle on purpose to confirm them b in . an epistle , that nothing can be added to , or taken from , saith their general fr. borgia c . an epistle that is truly divine , saith their general mutius vitellescus d . in this epistle it is that ignatius doth lay down these things . first , that they must look upon their superior , not as a person obnoxious to error , but as christ himself — who could not be deceived , nor would deceive . secondly , that whatever their superior commands or thinks , that they must always be ready to defend , and by no means to reject . thirdly , whatever he commands , that they must resolve to look upon as the command of christ , and with a blind resolution without any doubt or delay , resolve to do e without giving way to any humane reasonings and discourses , as their general aquaviva expounds it f , that they renounce not only their own wills , but understandings also , and submit them wholly to his , without calling any thing into question ; for otherwise the excellent virtue of blind obedience would fail , as ignatius saith g . that every one must perswade himself , that he is acted and governed by divine providence , through his superiors orders , and that he ought to be in that case as a carkass , which suffers it self to be carried or disposed of any way ; or as a staff in an old mans hand , which he directs as he pleaseth , as it 's fully expressed in their constitutions h . now if they are thus obliged blindly to obey their superiors , and that whatever they command them , is without any demur to be done , they are so far innocent in their own account , and think that they may safely without doubt , purge themselves as such . but they may say that they are only obliged to this obedience in things lawful , and no further , according to what ignatius himself doth say i , and is further confirmed by their constitutions k . but is this likely to be the sence , when their superior is in the place of christ l , and whom they are to submit to as to him , and whom they are to attend to , whatever he be , how weak or insufficient soever , as he represents the person of him , whose wisdom cannot be deceived , as ignatius saith m ? is this likely to be , when they must universally and wholly submit their own understandings to his , and are without delay or doubt to do what he requires ? and that it is not so , whatever they pretend , is evident from their own constitutions n , where the title of one chapter is , that the constitutions do not bring any under an obligation to sin ; but how little it answers that title , any one that reads the chapter may perceive ; for it's the●e said , that it seems to us — that no constitutions , &c. can bring under an obligation to mortal or venial sin , unless the superior in the name of christ , or in the virtue of obedience should command it : and then that may be done in the cases so judged of , which tends much to a private or universal good . so that a general or particular good may make it lawful for a superior to command what otherwise would be a sin ; and the vow of obedience makes it necessary for him that is under command to obey . by which means any sin shall be none , and the greatest criminal be innocent . . they may justifie themselves if they are under a precedent and sufficient obligation not to confess what they are justly charged with . and such an obligation is ( . ) the disadvantage of religion , or the injury of another . for which reasons it was that sir everard digby did clear all the priests before the lords ; and when asked by the lord chief justice , if he had not taken the sacrament to keep secret the plot as others did , boldly said , that he had not ; because , saith he , i would avoid the question , at whose hands it were . * and upon this principle parsons the jesuit doth proceed , when he saith , ‡ that if a priest taken in a mans house , of whose overthrow he either must be a cause , or doth suspect that he may be so , should be asked whether he is a priest , he is bound to deny himself so to be . . such an obligation also is confession ; of which i shall give you their sence in the words of parsons . ‖ if a confessor that hath heard another man's confession should be demanded , whether such an one had confessed such a sin unto him or not , he may not only say i know not , but answer directly , that he hath not confessed any such thing unto him , albeit he had so done ; and that the said confessor may not only say , but swear also this answer of his , understanding and reserving in his mind , that the penitent hath not confessed unto him so as he may utter it , &c. all divines and lawyers do hold that in this case of confession , the obligation of secrecy is so great , as for no respect whatsoever , nor to what person soever , though he be never so lawful a judg , prince , prelate , or superior , nor for saving of a whole kingdom or commonwealth , and much less the lives of any particular men or women , or of the confessor himself ; no , nor of the whole world together , if it were possible , or to work never so much good thereby might he utter the same . to which another author of the same order * adds , though the matter confessed was no less than the subversion of religion , and the destruction of the sacraments . this was the defence which garnet made for himself , why he at the first did not discover the conspiracy of the gunpowder-treason , and why he afterwards did obstinately deny his knowledg of it ; because as he pretended , it was disclosed unto him by greenwel the jesuit in confession , and that it would endanger the lives of divers men * : by which he said he was so bound up , that if one confessed this day to him , that to morrow morning he meant to kill the king with a dagger , he must conceal it ‖ . the case then is , that if at any time a dangerous conspiracy is made known to them in confession , which they themselves were actually before egaged in ; yet it being thus complicated , that their own concurrence in it is joyned with the others confession , they then may and are bound to stand upon their own innocence , because they cannot plead guilty , though they are so , without betraying what they heard in confession . . they may justify themselves , when they are indemnified and declared innocent by absolution . pardon is a discharge from punishment , and absolution is a legal declaration of pardon ; and in it self is not a making innocent , but only an assurance , that a person , notwithstanding his former crimes , shall be dealt with as if he were such . but they extend this further , for such a growing thing is power in the roman church , that it would bring every thing within its compass . sometimes sin by the pope's power shall be made none ; and a man shall violate his oath , and by virtue of a dispensation from his holiness shall become perjur'd without sin. sometimes the guilty shall be made innocent , and by the power of absolution shall be able to swear it . for if a person by confession to a priest , and absolution from him , hath what is sufficient to salvation , and to set him right in the sight of god ( as is the common opinion among them * ) then it may be thought sufficient also to make him innocent amongst men , and to give him reason to think so . this seems to be the ground of the present practice amongst them ; as when gurphy , after his absolution denied at his death with all assurance imaginable , that he was guilty of that burglary , which he was in ireland condemned for ; though the rope breaking he lived to confess it † . and this principle hath so far prevailed at this day ; that mr. prance doth ingenuously acknowledg ‖ , that if he had been absolved after the murther of sir edmond-bury godfry , as hill , and his other accomplices in it were , that he should have probably persisted in avowing his innocence , as they did , and never , or without extream difficulty have been brought to any acknowledgment . agreeable to this is that which is said by lud. lopez , . p. instruct . c. . who is quoted as good authority by raynaudus the jesuit , ut supra . a woman that hath been false to her husband , doth sin , if she without cause doth swear that she is innocent , and doth so swear because she hath done penance for the same ; unless her husband doth unjustly compel her to swear . the meaning of which is , that if she doth swear it vainly , when not put to it , and there is no reason for it , then she offends ; but if her husband threatens , and she is in danger ( for that is often the meaning of unjustly in the sence of these casuists ) then she may safely swear that she is innocent , forasmuch as she hath repented , and given satisfaction to the priest , and been absolved by him . from whence it appears , that if persons be compelled to swear unjustly , as ( in their opinion they all are when made to swear before hereticks ) that then they may swear , though never so guilty , that they are innocent and without fault , as having been absolved for it . . they may plead their own innocency , and justify it with an oath , &c. if they stand charged before an incompetent authority . of this opinion is parsons , for he saith , a if a judg be not lawful or competent , the party charged may answer as if he was alone , and no man by , for that he hath no necessary reference to him at all , &c. and much to the same purpose saith lessius . b now an incompetent judg , is one that hath no lawful jurisdiction over a person ; as may be gathered from parsons . c and such with them are ( . ) all hereticks , who are incompetent , because they are uncapable of rule , as gab. vasquez saith ; d and as soon as a prince is fallen from the catholick religion , he presently falls from all his power and dignity , saith parsons . e and thus was the case determined with an especial respect to england , as you may see in greg. martin in lib. resolut . cas . and dr. stillingfleet's sermon , on matt. . . p. . ( . ) such again , according to them , are all lay-magistrates , with respect to the clergy . a priest being exempted from all civil jurisdiction , saith bellarmine f . the belief of which led emanuel sa , so far as to say , g that rebellion in a clergy-man is no treason , because he is not subject to the civil power . and bellarmine saith little less , when he maintains h that kings are not the superiors of the clergy , and therefore such are not bound to obey them , but only as to matter of direction . this is clearly stated and applied to our purpose by parsons i ; if a judge , saith he , be not lawful or competent ; as if a lay-magistrate in a catholic country would enquire of matters not belonging to his jurisdiction , as for example , sacred or secret : then he may answer as if he were alone , and no man by , for that he hath no reference to him at all . for , as he saith afterward . k priests both by divine and humane law , according to catholick doctrine , are exempted from lay-mens jurisdiction . when therefore priests are brought before lay-magistrates , and catholics before heretics , they have a liberty to say what they please , and what may best serve their purpose and convenience : they may protest and swear that they are innocent , though never so guilty , that they know not what they know , and did not what they did . and if they may thus stand upon their own vindication , how unjustifiable soever their case be in it self , before incompetent authority ; then they may as well do it before incompetent witnesses and auditors . for the hereticks at tyburn have no more right to truth , than those at the old baily ; and they may as well protest and vow by all that is sacred , that they are innocent , when they come to die , as when they were upon their trial ; since the people there , as well as the judges here , were alike incompetent and heretical . . they may plead innocency when the charge is laid wrong . this we acknowledg , when we say that a person guilty of the fact , may yet plead not guilty as to matter and form . but now the charge with them shall always be laid wrong , when they answer to it by equivocation or mental reservation . for then it is not what the charge is in it self , but what they charge themselves with , that they direct their answer to . as if a person be charged with a crime , but by an incompetent authority , or illegally , he may securely say , i did not do it , reserving within himself that he did not do it in prison ; or that he had no design upon the king , thereby meaning a painted king l . and this is a current opinion among them . if a judg be not lawful or competent , the defendent may answer as if he were alone and no man by , and may frame to himself any proposition that is true of it self , and in his own sence and meaning , though the other that heareth , understandeth it in a different sence , and be thereby deceived , saith parsons m . if he be guilty , in such cases he is to turn himself to almighty god the judg of all , and frame to himself some true reserved sence , may say , i have not done it , i have not seen him , i have not killed him ; understanding thereby that he hath not done it , so as the examination or punishment of it is subject to that tribunal , or he subject to their jurisdiction , whereby he is bound to utter the same to them ; as that author further saith n . but what if he be put to his oath ? lessius answers , o that as often as it is lawful to use a doubtful speech , or a secret reservation , it is lawful to use an oath , if necessity or some notable cause requireth it , namely , to avoid a great evil , &c. and accordingly parsons p doth lay it down from azorius , &c. if the judg that exacteth the oath be not a lawful judg , or proceedeth not lawfully in exacting the same ; then hath he that sweareth , no obligation to swear to his intention at all , but may swear to his own , &c. amongst other examples of this way , we have in dr. abbot's antiologia , p. . b. of one john vnderwood , that being examined before the arch ▪ bishop of canterbury , . denied that ever he was beyond sea ; and affirmed , that he was married , and had six children , and was an husbandman . and yet acknowledged afterward , that he had been formerly six years at rome in the college , was admitted there into orders , and was a jesuit , and that his true name was cornford ; and that in what he said before , he meant , that he was married to his breviary , and that he had six spiritual children ; and that he had not been beyond sea , so as to confess it to the arch-bishop . this answer was much talked of , and what sancta clara hath defended under his own hand , as is yet to be seen . this was also the opinion of garnet , and the way he took q , for having an oath administred to him , and being examined upon the word of a priest , whether he had ever sent or writ to greenwel the jesuit , since they were together at coughton ? answered , no ; and when convinced of it by the letters produced , said , he had done nothing in his denial but what was lawful . but supposing this should be at the point of death , may this then be practised ? lud. lopez r saith , that if a woman having been excommunicated for not living with her husband , should at the point of death , to obtain absolution , swear , if she recovered , to return to him ; reserving in her self , if it might be without sin , she shall not be guilty of perjury ( if she knew an impediment ) though she recovers and lives from him . and this was mr. tresham's case , a who having accused garnet of the spanish treason , for fear this might be to the prejudice of the jesuit , three hours before he died subscribed a paper , in which he testified upon his salvation , that he had not seen him of years before : whereas garnet himself confessed , that within two years before they had frequently been together . all which garnet said he believed , mr. tresham might have done , as he meant to equivocate . and it is an example may safely be followed , as he maintained b . this was the case of parry , that attempted the life of queen elizabeth , who upon his apprehension , and after at his trial , confessed it ; but at last denies it , lays his blood upon the queen and judges , and summons the queen to answer for his blood before god c . but what if they voluntarily renounce all equivocations , and mental reservations , or are required so to do in oaths and protestations ; is this defensible upon their principles ? so saith parsons d ; when thou answerest to a judg , that is incompetent , by equivocation : if he ask , whether you equivocate , or not ? you may answer , no , but with a further equivocation . if he urges again , and asks whether you did not equivocate in your denying it ? you may answer , no , with another secret equivocation , and so as often as you are asked . nay , he saith further e ; when a judg is not lawful , though a person hath first sworn to answer directly , he may use doubtful words ; which if they prevail not , then say the doctors , that he may deny , and say , i know nothing , i have seen nothing , &c. reserving in his mind , that he knoweth nothing which in that unjust examination he is bound to utter . this was the measure garnet the provincial of the jesuits took ; for when he was called before the lords , and was asked , whether hall the jesuit and he had any conference together in the tower ? and being desired not to equivocate ; he stifly denied it upon his soul , reiterating it with many detestable execrations : and yet when proved against him , cryed the lords mercy , and said , he had offended , if equivocation did not help him * . of this we have a notable instance ‖ in one john coome , that anno , being examined by the bishop of london , and required to set down his answer in writing , did it after this manner ; whatsoever i now affirm , i affirm upon the faith of a christian , without all equivocation and mental reservation , or secret interpretation kept to my self ; and affirm it according to the plain sense of the words by me spoken ; so god me help , through jesus christ . first , i say , therefore that my name is john coome , neither have i been called by any other name here , or beyond seas ; and particularly that my ordinary name is not scammel , neither is it my true name . furthermore i affirm , upon the faith of a christian , that i never was in orders according to the way of the church of rome , and did never enter into a vow according to the rule of the jesuits ; nor ever studied in any english seminary in spain or flanders . and to the truth of all this i have subscribed , and of my own accord have subscribed , john coome . these things he swore , and yet did all by equivocation and reservation ; for he afterwards confessed that he was a priest , and jesuit , and did commonly write his name scammel . and that they may use equivocation when they declare against it ; see it further made good by dr. stillingfleet in the sore-quoted sermon , pag. . if we reflect upon these propositions , we may be able to reconcile all that mr. whitebread and his brethren did declare at their late execution , or whatever they are made to say in these speeches that pass up and down in their names , to the justice of the sentence they suffered by . it 's true , amongst protestants , nay amongst heathens , such solemn protestations would be hearkned to ; and those that are honest and sincere , could hardly think those that use such asseverations to be otherwise . but if we consider what hath been before said , we have reason to judg of them by other measures . for some of their principles do shew that they may do it . as those of being dispensed with in it ; and of having absolution after it ; and of denying and swearing , with reservation before an incompetent authority . but others of the abovesaid principles make it necessary , and shew that they ought to do it . as if they were required so to do by their superiors , whose commands they are not to question or dispute : if it were for a notable good , or preventing a considerable mischief ; or if they heard it in confession ; in these cases they are obliged to deny , and to deny again ; to equivocate upon equivocation ; to die , and , i had almost said , to damn themselves , rather than confess when they are thus bound to be secret . but that they need not fear , for besides the security that they have otherwise , it 's said , in a famous book of theirs , * that god granted to their order , that for the first years , none of them should be damned . and perhaps they may think it worth the while to venture purgatory to secure their present plot from miscarriage ; as the lord cordes is said ‖ to have been content to lie seven years in hell , on condition calice might be recovered from the english . that if we consider their circumstances , and peruse their speeches , it may be presumed that they acted according to these principles . and here i shall not repeat what i before said to make it evident , that if they had been guilty , this way of proceeding was necessary to maintain the credit of their religion and society , &c. but shall observe , ( . ) that there are not in any of these speeches , higher protestations and appeals to god , than what was in the words of garnet , and the writing of co●me before spoken of ; which yet were plainly sophistical , as the sequel shewed . ( . ) that there is in the most material parts of them such an agreement , and that in the phrase it self , ( as hath been already observed ) as if they were to act a prescribed part , and to observe particular orders in what they should say . ( . ) that the elder , and those who it's likely were to give absolution , spake with greater caution and reservedness , whilst the others spoke with greater freedom and boldness . ( . ) that notwithstanding all , there are some things notoriously false , and in which at least they do equivocate ; which may give just reason to suspect that they do equivocate also where it is not so evident . and this falls the hardest upon mr. gawen , who thus delivers himself ; because they [ jesuits ] are so falsly charged for holding king killing doctrine , i think it my duty to protest to you with my last dying words , that neither i in particular , nor the jesuits in general , hold any such opinion , but utterly abhor and detest it ; and i assure you , that among the multitude of authors , which among the jesuits have printed philosophy , divinity , cases or sermons , there is not one to the best of my knowledg that allows of king-killing doctrine , or holds this position , that it is lawful for a private person to kill a king although an heretick , although a pagan , although a tyrant ; that is to say , not any jesuit that holds this , except mariana the spanish jesuit , and he defends it not absolutely , but only problematically , for which his book was called in again , and the opinions expugned and sentenced . now towards the clearing of this , four things are to be enquired into . . what the opinion of mariana was touching killing of kings ? . whether mariana held it problematically only ? . whether and how mariana was censured for it ? . whether any of the jesuits besides mariana were of that opinion ? . what the opinion of mariana was touching killing of kings ? mr. gawen saith , that he held it lawful for a private person to kill a king , if an heretick or tyrant , &c. his opinion is to be sought for in his book , de rege & regis institutione * ; where he thus delivers himself , ( . ) if a lawful prince becomes a tyrant , and doth oppress and violate the publick laws , &c. he is to be admonished ; and if he afterward persist therein , he may be declared a publick enemy , and may be killed ( if otherwise the common-wealth cannot be defended ) and that by a private person . ( . ) that in case there cannot be a publick convention of the people ( as a parliament ) that then the common voice of the people shall be sufficient to warrant it ; and he who then favouring the publick wish doth attempt his life , doth nothing unjustly . ( . ) that yet it is not lawful for any private person to kill a king. so that he takes a private person in two sences ; ( . ) for one that doth it upon a private account , as for his own pleasure , or revenge ; and then he declares it to be unlawful for such an one to kill a king. ( . ) for one that is commissioned by authority , as by a pope , or convention of people , or that doth it for a general good ; and then it is lawful and honourable for him so to do . . whether mariana held this problematically only ? so saith mr. gawen , and so did also eudaemon . johannes * , saying , that he delivered his opinion with doubt the advantage they take of saying so , is from what mariana saith towards the conclusion of chap. . viz. this our opinion doth certainly proceed from a sincere mind ; in which , since i may be deceived , as a man , i will thank any one that shall bring better . but this is no more than what is ordinarily said , even by those that write most positively . thus did father barns begin and end his book against equivocation ‖ ; if i commit an error , yet since i submit my writings to the canonical censure of your holiness , ( writing to the pope ) my error is not obstinate . i am a man , and if i err , it is only an humane error : and yet that learned person was conceived to be so dogmatical in the point , that he was fetched to rome by the contrivance of the jesuits , against whom he wrote it , and died distracted in prison . but there is nothing more evident , than that mariana was as positive in this opinion , as mr. burns in the other ; for he not only commends the murder of henry the third of france a , but also saith , that the lawfulness of killing a king , in the cases above mentioned , is as clear as the day b ; and who is so void of counsel as not to believe it c ? and saith , to exterminate such out of the society of men , is a glorious work d : and determines for the lawfulness of killing him by poison , provided it be not in his meat e . . whether and how mariana was censured for this ? mr. gawen saith , that the book was called in again , and the opinions expugned and censured . but i would fain know when the former of these was done . i know that there was once a great talk of a book of mariana's censured by the pope , and the jesuits took an occasion from thence to stop the mouths of those that understood no better ; but alas , it was far from any thing of this nature ; for whereas a book of the change of money was written by mariana ; in which , saith an author of theirs * , he had sharply censured some corruptions in that kind ; he contracted there by so much displeasure , that at the instance of the spanish ambassador , pope paul the th did prohibit it for a while till the storm was over . but as for the other book , de rege , &c. there is not a word in the foresaid author concerning any such censure , tho he is so particular as to tell where and when it was first printed ; and who would doubtless have made some remark upon it , if any such thing had been . which doth mightily confirm what is said by the abbot sylvius a ( or whoever was the author of the inscriptio ad gallos ingenuos ) that the censure of this book of mariana by the jesuits at paris , in , and the letter of aquaviva their general to them upon it , was wholly fictitious , and brought in by father cotton to serve a turn , and a little to cast off the odium from themselves , after the murther of henry the th , and the decree of the parliament of paris for burning this book of mariana's by the common hangman , as containing many cursed blasphemies against king henry the third ; and principles pernicious to the lives of kings , &c. b as it 's there declared . and that which doth more discover the imposture is , since aquaviva is there made to say , that he was troubled that he knew nothing of this before ; which how unlikely it is , will be evident , if it be considered , that it was about seven years betwixt the first publishing of this book of mariana , and this letter said to be written by aquaviva ; the book being licensed decemb. , and printed at toledo , and the letter was written . now that their general should be so long ignorant of a book written by one of their order , and by so learned a man as mariana , and a book that had set the world in a flame , cannot be conceived . but indeed i do not find this censure at paris much insisted upon by themselves . and the recalling of it is much like the censure , for besides that edition at toledo , there was another at mentz by balthazar lippius , which the jesuits there did revise sheet by sheet ; not to speak of that printed at frankford by the heirs of wechelus , which a learned person saith they did by the instruction of a famous jesuit c . but however the principles of it are expugned and censured , saith mr. gawen . i will take that at the present for granted , which an author of theirs saith d , viz. that upon a consultation of the jesuits at rome , their general aquaviva , made a decree , whereby he forbad to teach , either by word or writing , that it was lawful for any person whatsoever under any pretext of tyranny , to kill kings , or to plot their death . a decree that looks very speciously ; but ( . ) we are here to observe , that there is no censure of what hath been already written or taught , or the persons so writing or teaching . ( . ) we may very well suppose that the any person whatsoever , will admit of their common limitation , and is to be understood of any private person , that doth it without the command or sentence of the judg , according to the words of the decree of the council at constance e . and i have the greater reason so to think , because when it was objected that the council of constance had condemned this position ( that the tyrant may and ought to be kill'd by any one of his subjects whatsoever ] . suarez f answers , where do you find , in the acts of that council , that it 's spoken of princes excommunicate by the pope , or degraded ? ( . ) there is no little exception to be taken against the word king , as it 's here laid ; for in their sence , an heretical , excommunicated and deposed king , is no king ; and he only is with them a king that is not under such a censure , and so the killing of such an one only is to be declared against . ( . ) and this we may be the more assured of , since it 's said only under any pretext of tyranny ; but it 's not said under any pretext of herefie , excommunication or deposition . so that after all , here is no security for a king , if an heretick ; or for a catholick king , if deposed or excommunicated : and the doctrine is still left much where it was before the decree . so that this deserves the like censure given by the abbot sylvius of that before spoken of , that it 's a censure full of equivocations and doubtful expressions g . but the best way to find out the strength and validity of this decree , is to observe their practice . were these principles never reassumed by them ? what must we think of the book of suarez , printed at colein , h , and which was condemned by the parliament of paris to be burnt , as containing propositions highly scandalous and seditious , and which tended to the subversion of kingdoms , and the stirring up subjects to murder their kings i . and upon which occasion the senate sent for amandus , and the chief of the jesuits , to let them know how little respect was had to the above said decree of their general , in anno . what shall we say to a book of sanctarellus the jesuit , printed at rome k , not only under the eye of vitelliscus their general , but with his express allowance ? in which were eleven propositions condemn'd by the parliament of paris , and for which it was commanded to be burnt by the common hangman . amongst which it is maintained , that the pope may depose princes , if insufficient or negligent , and adjudg them to death , &c. when this book was produced , the parliament sent for several of the jesuits , and asked them what they thought of that book ? father cotton answered in the name of the rest , that they disapproved it . being further examined , how it came to pass that they condemned what their general did allow ? he replied , that their general being at rome , could do no less . when it was asked again , what they would do if at rome ? he replied , they should think as they do at rome . this you may see particularly set down by gramondus l , a friend of cottons . so that such declarations as these are of no force , but are only to serve a present need , to pacify princes , or please the people , but what they themselves are not obliged by : therein making good that character of them , which i find in a sober author of their own , m that a jesuit is every man ; of which that book will afford some other instances , p. , . and so way is made to consider : whether any of the jesuits besides mariana have bin of that opinion ; i hope it will be granted , that some there are , by what hath been already said ; and it will be further allowed , ( ) that they are of the same mind with him that do commend him for having well acquitted himself upon that argument : such are stephen hoieda , visitor of their society in the province of toledo , that licensed it , and those that gave their approbation of it to him ; such again are scribanius n gretser , becanus , &c. ( ) they again are of his opinion , that do hold , not only that a king may be deposed by a prince or people ; but that also , when deposed , he is no king. so suarez o , when a king is deposed , then he is neither lawful king nor prince . so p lessius , greg. valentia , and many others . ( ) they are of mariana's opinion , that hold a deposed king may be killed . so lessius * , any having authority , may , if a prince's tyranny grow intolerable , depose him , &c. whereby any thing may be attempted against his person , because he then is no more a prince . so becanus a , the pope may deprive princes , and if contumacious , he may have them deprived of their life . so suarez b , eman. sa c , molina , &c. ( . ) they are of his opinion , that say , a private person may kill a king so deposed ; the sentence being issued out , any one may be the executioner of it . so eman . sa d ; so molina e . the people may depose their king , and punish him when he is deposed . so that we see mariana is still a jesuit , and they have no reason to clamour against him , and to cry out of the rashness of one man , as mr. gawen doth , when as it 's the prevailing opinion amongst them ; and it is disingenuously done of them , to do by him as the deer by one that is wounded , clear themselves of his company , when he is of the same herd with them . indeed after all that mr. gawen hath said towards the vindication of himself and his order , he hath said but what mariana did before him ; for mariana held , as i have before shewed , that it 's not lawful for a private person to kill a king ; and therefore saith , ‖ that john duke of burgundy was condemned by the council of constance , because he caused lewis duke of orleance to be killed , non expectata sententia superioris , without attending the sentence of a superior , as the pope , i. e. he did it upon his own head , and out of private revenge . and if this be the meaning of mr. gawen , which is the received sence of those of his order , we are much beholden to him . for then our prince is left to the mercy of the pope's bull , or that of the people ; for as soon as he is by them declared against , or is an heretick , or grows intolerable , or is deposed , then any private man is the minister of justice , and doth right to god and his church , or the people , if he kill him . if mr. gawen had meant honestly , he should have told us that it was not his opinion , that a king may be deposed , or that upon deposition he is no king , and that tho thus deposed it was unlawful for any person whatsoever to attempt his life . but as long as he useth the current phrase among them , we must take their interpretation of it also ; and then he must say any private person may kill a king in the circumstances before spoken of ; so that a king is only secur'd against private revenge , or the present rage of his subjects ; but if they have warrant for so doing from the pope or people , then lord have mercy on him , for he is like to find none from them . so that after all his renouncing of equivocation , &c. he in his last dying words is found basely to equivocate , whilst he neither tells us what the king is whom a private person ought not to kill , nor what that private person is , that ought not to kill him . and when if he means according to the stile of his order , it is no more but that whilst a lawful king is not excommunicate , an heretick , or deposed , no one may kill him : and when he is either of those , no one of a private revenge or malice may be allowed so to do : but if the publick good be concerned in it , or there be authority or commission from superiors [ that is , pope or people in parliament ] then the private person is no private person , and there is no bar to secure a prince's life from the assaults even of such . and if there be such a notorious equivocation in this so set a performance of his ; and that he acted so conformably to his own principles , of obeying his superiors in whatever they commanded , in denying whatever may be to the prejudice of their cause or party , in using mental reservations , even whilst he renounced them , for these and the other ends before spoken of ; what hinders but we are to think that all the rest wrote after the same copy with him ; as when they say that they are as innocent as the child unborn , of treasonable crimes ; is not this reconcileable to the principles of dispensation and absolution ? ( which last they might , and it 's probable did give one to another ) is it not reconcileable to the excommunication and deposition of his present majesty , and to the title which the pope challengeth to these kingdoms , by the ancient claim of surrender ? when they speak of the king , might they not apply it either to the pope or a successor , doing therein much as a certain priest did , that when asked who was supream in all causes in the church of england , presently answered the king , meaning thereby the king of heaven , as he afterward expounded it ? * when they do declare against a plot for the alteration of government , is not that easily applied to the kind or form , or some main parts of it ? when they renounce equivocations , &c. did not garnet and coome do the same , and yet in the mean while did equivocate or lye ? did they do all this at their death , and call god to witness , and pawn their souls to verifie and confirm what they said ? is this more than what was practised by mr. tresham and gurphy ; and what is frequently done by villains at their execution without such reasons for it from religion or interest as these men had ? when i read their speeches , i can hardly but believe them ; when i think of their accusations , their principles , and the practices usual amongst them , i begin to tremble : to think that at such a time , and in so great a case as this is , men should prevaricate , and to deceive the world , care not what becomes of their own souls ; or else that they can be so stupid as to think that the salvation of their souls can be consistent with such impieties . i question not but that time will make this as clear as the day , and then what they did to strengthen their cause , will be the greatest blow to it that perhaps it ever yet had . when it shall be upon record , and published before all the world , that so good may come of it , the good of their church and order , they care not what evil they do , nor how they subvert the laws of god and nature , so they may establish their own . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a ignatii exercit . spirit . p. . reg . . antw. . b epist ad patr. & fratr . societ in lusit . c epist . ad patres & fratres aquitaniae , p. . num . d epist . ad patres prov . societ . p. . e n. . . f cl. aquavivae industriae , cap. num . . g ibid. n. . . & n. . h pars . c. . i epist . p. . n. . k pars . c. . p. . l aquavivae industriae , c. . n. . constitut . par . . c. . p. . & par . . c. . p. . &c. m epist . n. . p. . n pars . c. . p. . visum est nobis nullas constitutiones , declarationes , vel ordinem ullum vivendi posse obligationem ad peccatum mortale vel veniale inducere , nisi superior ea in nomine d ▪ n. j. christi , vel in virtute obedientiae juberet , quod in rebus vel personis illis in quibus judicabitur , quod ad particulare uniuscujusque vel ad universale bonum multum conveniet , fieri poterit . * sir everards first paper , printed at the end of the gunpowder-treason , . ‡ mitigation , c. . p. . ‖ ibid. c. . sect. . p. . * henr. henriq . sum . theol. moral . de sacr. poenit . l. . c. . praeversie religionis , & omnium sacramentorum intentata demolitio . * proceedings against the traytors , p. . ‖ ibid. p. . * navar. man. c. . n. . dia. sum. v. reus . n. . &c. † vid. the late printed relation of it , in a letter to the earl of essex . ‖ pag. . of his narrative . a mitigation in equiv . c. . part . sect. . n. . b de just . & jure , lib. . c. . dub . . n. . c mitig. c. . sect. . d com. in . . thom. tom. . dist . . sect. . e in his philopater , p. . for he is said to be the author of it , by watson in his quodl . p. , , . f lib. de cler. c. . p. , . g apher tit. clericus . edit . antwerp . & colon. h ibid. c. . p. . i mitig. c. . part . sect. . n. . k ibid c. . sect. . p. . n. . l lessius de instit . l. . c. . dub. . n. , . m mitigat . c. . part . sect. . n. . n ibid. c. . sect. . n. . o ibid. n. . p ibid. sect. . n. . q is . casauboni epist . ad front. ducaeum p. , . r p. instruct . c. . as quoted by raynaudus in his defence of lessius against barns , c. . n. . a proceedings against the traytors , p. , , , . b in some papers of his , quoted by is . casaub . epist . ad ducaeum . p. . c foulis romish treasons l. . c. . p. . d as quoted by barns , contra aequiv . sect. . p. , and sect. . p. . e mitigat . c. . sect . p. . n. . * proceedings , p. . casaub . epist . p. . ‖ rob. abbotti antilogia . c. . p. . * imago primi saec. societ jesu . p. . ‖ bacon's henry the th . general . mr. gawen's speech . * lib. . cap. , & . edit . . typis wechel . p. , . * in respons . ad amic . c. . ‖ dissertatio contra aequiv . epist . dedio . & p. ult . libri . a c. . p. , . b c. . p. . c ibid. p. . d c. . p. . e p. . * alegambe in biblioth . scrip. societ . jesu , p. . a continuat . thuani p. . francof . . b ibid. p. . c casauboni epist . ad ducaeum , p. . d eudaem joh. ad amic . c. . e non expectata sententia aut mandato judicis concil . const . sess . . f defens . fid. l. . c . g continuat . thua . p. . h defens . fidei cath. adv . angl. sect. i contin . thuani , p. . k tractatus de haeresi , &c. l gram hist . p. . francof . . m jesuits cat. l. . p. . engl. . n for he is said by alegambe to be the author of amphitbeat . honor. o defens . fid. l. . c . sect. . & . p de instit . l. . c . dub. . sect. , . * ibid. a controv. ang. p. . b ibid. ut prius . c aphor. tyrannus . d ibid. e de instit . tom. . tract . . disp . . sect. . ‖ cap. . fin . * abbot . autilog . cap. . p. . b. a discourse concerning the celebration of divine service in an unknown tongue williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the celebration of divine service in an unknown tongue williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for richard chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . errata: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. catholic church -- liturgy. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the celebration of divine service in an unknown tongue . london , printed for richard chiswell , at the rose and crown in s. paul's church-yard . m dc lxxxv . advertisement . cardinal hosius ; sanders ; epist . cler. gall. extract . ex regist . fac. par. procez , &c. quoted in this tract by the page , refer to a book , called , collectio quorundam gravium authorum , qui sacrae scripturae aut divinorum officiorum in vulgarem linguam translationes damnarunt , &c. printed at paris , . the quotation , page . though out of sixtus senens . are the words of ambrosius compsae , who severely condemning cajetan for the aforesaid saying , it is better , &c. gives this as a reason that that opinion primò à diabolo inventa est . errata . pag. . marg. lin . . for read . p. . l. . r. were often . p. . marg . dele in genes . lit. l. c. . & in ps . , p. . l. . dele little . p. . l. . after together , r. for conjuration . p. . marg . l. . dele i. p. . l. . r. sfentopulcer . a discourse concerning the celebration of divine service in an unknown tongue . upon this argument the church of england doth fully declare it self in these words , it is a thing plainly repugnant to the word of god , and the custome of the primitive church , to have publick prayers in the church , or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people . but if we consult the doctors of the church of rome about it , we shall find them , as in most other points , differing extreamly amongst themselves . mercer , a very learned person , and professor of hebrew at paris , is so free as to say , temerè fecerunt , &c. they amongst us have done rashly , that brought in the custome of praying in an vnknown tongue , which very often neither they themselves , nor our people understand . and cardinal cajetan saith , melius est , &c. it is better for our church that the publick prayers in the congregation be said in a tongue common to the priests and people , and not in latin. others of them are of another mind , and say that the having divine service in a tongue known to the people is new and prophane , and the doctrine requiring it diaboli calliditatem sapit , smells of the craft of the devil . and that the church in making use of the latin tongue therein , received it by inspiration from the holy-ghost ; as a late author saith . with what consistence soever the former sort may speak to truth and reason ; yet i am sure the later speak with consistence enough to the opinion , declarations and practice of their church ; as is evident from the council of trent ( the present standard of the doctrine of the church of rome ) which i find thus englished to my hands by a noted person of their church . though the mass contain [ great ] instruction for gods faithful people , yet it seemed not expedient to the fathers [ of the council ] that it should be celebrated every where in the vulgar tongue : wherefore retaining in all churches , the antient rite [ or rather in all places the antient rite of every church ] approved by the holy roman church , the mother and mistress of all churches ; lest christs sheep should hunger , and the children asking bread , none should be found to break it to them , the holy synod commands pastors and all that have care of souls , that during the celebration of mass , they should frequently either by themselves , or others , expound some part of those things , which are read in it ; and among other things let them explain the mystery of the most holy sacrifice , [ the words are , some mystery of this holy sacrifice ] especially on sundays and feasts . and they conclude , if any one shall say , that mass ought to be celebrated only in the vulgar tongue , let him be anathema . to this i shall add for a conclusion , the judgment of the late pope alexander the seventh , in a brief he sent to the clergy of france about a translation of the missal into that language , at that time newly published ; in which he saith , that some sons of perdition had arrived to that madness , as to translate and publish it , &c. a novelty we abhor and detest as the seed-plot of disobedience , rashness , sedition , and schism , and of many other evils , and therefore that french missal , or what shall hereafter be published in any other manner , we condemn , reprobate and forbid . from all which we may perceive , what an evident repugnancy there is betwixt the doctrine of the church of england , and that of rome in the matter before us : and therefore for the better understanding the case and discerning which is in the right , and which in the wrong , i shall discourse of it in the following order . first , i shall consider the phrase , an vnknown tongue . secondly , i shall enquire into the lawfulness and expediency of celebrating divine service in a tongue not understood by the people . for so much is affirmed by the council of trent , and denied by the church of england . thirdly , i shall enquire , whether the celebrating service in a tongue not understood by the people , hath been the antient custome of every church ? for so much also is affirmed by that council , and denyed by the church of england . fourthly , i shall consider , whether the provision made by the foresaid council , of having some part of the mass expounded , be sufficient to countervail the mischief of having the whole in a tongue not understood by the people , and to excuse that church in their injunction of it ? fifthly , i shall enquire whether upon the whole , the publick service of god ought not to be celebrated in a tongue vulgarly understood ? which proposition whosoever holds , is anathematized by the foresaid council : and yet is owned by the church of england . sect . i. of the phrase service in an unknown tongue . toward the fixing the sence of this phrase , we are to observe , i. that there is the vulgar tongue of a country , which is universally understood by the natives of what rank or quality soever . such was the latin tongue formerly in rome ; such now is english with us . before we dismiss this , it is to be further considered , . that there are different dialects or wayes of expressing and pronouncing the same tongue : which differences of words , or pronunciation do not so alter the tongue , but that throughout under all these variations it agrees in much more than it differs ; so that he that speaks the one , is generally understood by him that useth the other . such anciently were the different dialects of the greek tongue , well known to the learned : and such are the northern , southern and western wayes of speaking amongst our selves in this nation . . where there are these different dialects , there generally is one way of speaking , which either from the eloquence , or fashionableness of it , so far prevails , as to be the standard of the tongue , and to be used in writing books , letters , &c. and is understood by all . such i conceive was anciently that which is called the common dialect in greek : and of the like kind is that which is spoken in and about the court , and by scholars and persons of a liberal education amongst us ; and elsewhere . . if a tongue in process of time , by a mixture of other nations , or by the removal of a people from one country to another , or by any other cause comes to be so altered , as the mother and original tongue is not to be understood ( as ledesma saith it is in spain ) then it is no longer a vulgar tongue , but is to be reckoned amongst the unknown . ii. there is a common tongue , which though not the mother or national tongue , is however with that commonly and generally understood . thus it was antiently in many places with the greek and latin. the former of which , was once the common tongue of a great part of the then known world , and continued so to be from the time of cicero , to that of s. jerom , for the space that is of . if not . years . insomuch , that not only the scriptures were read in greek in the publick congregations from aegypt to constantinople ; as s. jerom informs us ; but the christians also had their worship ( as is confessed ) and the fathers preached to them in that language . so did s. chrysostome , s. basil , s. cyril and s. athanasius in their several sees of antioch , caesarea , jerusalem , and alexandria . and the latin was so well known , understood , and commonly spoken together with the vulgar tongue in diverse countries , ( through the industry of the romans in their several provinces ) that the vulgar was scarcely more . thus we find it in the proconsular africa , where ( though less accurately spoken than at rome ) it was so well understood , that s. austin saith , he learned that language of his nurse , and at play , and did write as well as preach in it for the use of the vulgar : and calls it our speech , whereas the punick was the vulgar tongue of that country . and such a common tongue is french in flanders , lingua franca in the streights , and english in some parts of wales . iii. there is a learned tongue , which though common amongst the learned , yet they being few in comparison of the vulgar , that understand it not , it cannot be called a common tongue : such are greek and latin now . iv. there is a tongue understood and spoken by none in a nation , or so few , as are next to none ; and which if used in divine offices would be wholly unintelligible . such are persick and indian with us . the use of all this niceness , is partly to clear the state of the question , and partly to prevent many of the objections which the case is cumbred with : and without the observing of which , the dispute will be turned from the point that is controverted , to that which is not . as it happens for the most part among those of the church of rome that undertake the management of this cause ; who do either distinguish where they are not to distinguish , or do not distinguish where they should distinguish . for sometimes they oppose the dialects of a tongue to that tongue of which they are the dialects : at other times they oppose the common tongue to the vulgar : sometimes they confound the learned tongue with the common : and then again oppose the learned and utterly unknown , as if these two were of as different kinds as known and unknown . to give an instance of each of these : do they undertake to shew how unfit and unreasonable it is to translate the service or scriptures into a vulgar tongue ? they endeavour to make it out by shewing how unfit it is to think of translating . and how unreasonable it is to expect they should be translated into the several dialects of each tongue ? would they farther shew that the divine offices , &c. were not of old so translated ? they attempt to prove it from their not having been translated into different dialects . as if the dialects of a tongue differed as much from each other , and all from the main tongue of a nation , as a learned tongue differs from the vulgar . which is ( to speak charitably ) for want of observing , that the dialects are but several modes of speaking the same tongue ; and that ordinarily there is some common standard , which ( as i have said ) over-rules the rest , and is a guide common to all : as here in england , notwithstanding there be several dialects , and that there is one in scotland differs much from them all ; yet there is but one translation of the bible , and one service for the use of the whole , and that is fully if not equally understood by all . furthermore , would they prove , that anciently the christian churches used not a vulgar tongue in divine service ? they presently multiply authorities to shew , that in many places they used greek and latin , and that greek and latin were oftentimes not the vulgar tongues where they were so used . as if the common tongue ( for such were those two in elder times , where they were not the vulgar ) was opposed to the vulgar , as much as unknown is to known ; and each was inconsistent with the other . thus they tell us from s. jerom , that the vulgar tongue in galatia was in effect the same with that of the treviri in germany : and yet there , and in the neighbouring countries , they had the scriptures , if not their divine service in greek . not observing that greek was the common tongue of those parts , and that both that and a vulgar were there freely and generally spoken ; as greek and latin , as well as the gallick tongues were so frequent in massilia , that it was called trilinguis , as s. jerom shews in the same dissertation of his . so that these two , the common and vulgar , are so far from being inconsistent , that ( notwithstanding the bold saying of our country-man sanders , that the common people understand nothing but their mother tongue . ) the experience of all ages , as well as our own shews that they are frequently met together . but to proceed , would they demonstrate that they do and may lawfully use the latin now in divine service , they attempt with great industry to prove that both that and the greek were antiently used therein . and so they confound the learned and the common tongue , and compare those times and places , in which the latin and greek were commonly known and understood , with our times and places , in which neither of them are understood but by the learned . lastly , would they shew that s. paul , in corinthians , . doth not oppose service in latin , they undertake to shew , that he opposeth no other service than what is altogether unknown and no body understands , as persick and arabick , and that he doth not condemn a learned tongue ; thereby supposing the learned tongue and tongue altogether unknown to be different in kind , whereas they only differ so , that the one is rarely understood and by very few , in comparison , and the other is understood by none . now in all this they say little or nothing to the purpose . for if they plead for their latin service , as greek was in galatia , and latin in africa , who is their adversary ? for these tongues were ( as i have shewed ) in those and the like places as well or little less spoken and understood than the vulgar and mother tongues . and the protestants do not think it unlawful to have the common service in a tongue which is commonly understood ( though it be not the vulgar tongue of the nation ) especially in maritim and provincial countries , where there is a concourse of diverse nations , and where either these several languages are understood , or there is a compound language that serves for all , as the lingua franca before spoken of . but if they plead for latin , as it is now ( when a dead and learned tongue ) that is where it is not known at all , as in the west-indies ( where yet it is as much used by those of the roman communion in mass , as in europe ) or where it is not known to the vulgar people , as it is with us , and every where else , then they speak to the purpose , ( for that the reformed do oppose ) but then the way of arguing hitherto taken notice of is of no use to them in the world ; and is no more to the purpose than if they would undertake to prove that there is at this day a famous university at athens , and that latin is the vulgar tongue now at rome , because these were so formerly . so that if we will know where the controversie lies , and what is contended for and against , we must restore things to their proper places ; and i think all may be brought to an issue , by putting and resolving this plain question , viz. sect . ii. qu. whether it be lawful and expedient to use such a tongue in the publick worship of god , as is not vulgarly or commonly understood by the people ; according to the way at this day required and practised in the church of rome ? if we would enquire into the lawfulness of such things as appertain to divine worship , we must apply our selves to the holy scripture ; being in matters of that nature to determine of right and wrong , lawful and unlawful , according to the directions , commands , and prohibitions of it . if we would be satisfied about their expedience , we must consider the nature , ends , and use of what we enquire about . this therefore is a proper method for the resolution of the foregoing question : but because the apostle ( in his discourse upon this subject , . cor. . ) doth argue from the ends and use of the several offices belonging to divine worship , and because the like order may give some light and force to what follows ; i shall first of all , i. treat of the ends for which divine worship , and the several offices of it were instituted . ii. consider whether those ends may be attained when the worship is performed in a tongue not understood ? iii. whether the worship so performed as to leave those ends unattainable , will be accepted by god ? iv. i shall consider the apostle's discourse upon this argument ; and whether it can be reasonably concluded from thence , that divine worship so administred as not to be understood of the people is unlawful . i. in the first of these the masters of controversie in the romish church do proceed with great tenderness and no little obscurity . for would we know what the worship is they would have in an unknown tongue ? they answer , it is the publick only they defend . for as for private , saith one , it is lawful for every one to offer his lesser prayers to god in what tongue soever he pleaseth . and saith another , all catholicks are taught to say their private prayers in their mother tongue . as if it were possible to assign such a vast difference betwixt them ( when the dispositions , reasons and ends , required and intended , are the same ) that what is lawful , expedient and necessary in the one , is unlawful , inexpedient and unnecessary in the other ; or as if the saying private prayers in latin , was never heard of , practised , or encouraged in their church . again , would we understand to what purposes the divine offices do serve ; and whether the edification , instruction and consolation of the people be not some of those ends. bellarmin answers , . ) that the principal end of divine offices is not the instruction or consolation of the people , but a worship due to god from the church . as if there were no regard to be had to the special ends of those offices , such as the instruction and consolation of the people : or as if god could be honoured by that worship , where those ends are not regarded . . ) the rhemists add , that prayers are not made to teach , make learned , or increase knowledge , though by occasion they sometimes instruct ; but their especial use is to offer our hearts , desires and wants to god , &c. as if there were no offices in god's worship appointed for instruction , and increase of knowledge ; and which are performed in an unknown tongue amongst them , as well as prayer . or as if their adversaries did either deny it to be the special use of prayer , to offer our hearts , &c. to god : or did affirm that the special use of it is , to teach , make learned , and increase knowledge ; as they with others do falsly suggest , and would fain have believed . but to set this in a better light ; and that we may understand what are the ends and uses for which divine worship was appointed , and after what manner they are to be respected ; it is to be observed , . that divine worship in its first notion respects god as its object ; and so the end of it in general , is the giving honour to him by suitable thoughts , words and actions . . that he hath appointed several wayes and offices by which he will be so honoured ; and in which , as the honour doth terminate in him , so there redounds from thence benefit to the church . . that the benefits redound to the church according to the nature of those offices , and the special ends they were designed unto ; as the word of god is for our instruction and comfort , &c. the lord's supper for the encrease of faith in god , and love to him through jesus christ . the praising of god is to raise our affections , and to make us more sensible of his goodness , and to quicken us in our duty . the especial use of prayer ( that i ▪ may use the words forecited ) is to offer up our hearts , wants and desires to god ; and that by conversing with him , we may be the more ardently excited to the love and adoration of him ( as the trent catechism doth express it ) . that those offices are to be performed so as may effectually answer those ends , and as we may receive the benefits they were appointed for : from whence it follows , . that if the offices of divine worship are to be performed by words , those words and that tongue ( in which they are administred ) must be such as will not obstruct but promote , and in their nature are qualified to attain those ends. and if those ends cannot be attained without the tongue , in which the service is performed , be understood : it makes that means as necessary in its kind as the end ; and it is as necessary that the tongue used for those ends in divine worship , be understood , as that those ends should be respected , or that there should be a tongue used at all . for it is not god but man that is immediately respected in the words ( since there is no more need of words to god , than of words that are vulgarly understood ) and so it is not for him but man , that this tongue or that , or indeed that any tongue at all is used . and if it be requisite that there be a tongue and words used in publick worship , and which all persons present are supposed to joyn in , and receive benefit by ; then it is as necessary for the same reason to use words significant and understood , as to use any words at all . for , saith s. austin , what doth the soundness of speech profit , if not followed with the understanding of the hearer ? seeing there is no reason at all for our speaking , if what we speak is not understood by them , for whom , that they might understand , we spoke at all . from what hath been said , we may be able to vindicate such arguments of the protestants for divine service in a known and vulgar tongue , as were taken from the ends of worship , against the replyes made to them by their adversaries of the romish church . as , . the protestants argue in general , that the end of divine offices is for the edification , instruction and consolation of the people ; but these ends cannot be attained in a tongue not understood by them . to this it is replyed , that the proposition is false , because the chief end of divine offices is not the instruction or consolation of the people , but a worship or honour due to god. an answer that became not so great a man. for ( . ) he argues as if those ends were opposed , which are not only consistent , as principal and subordinate , but also inseparable in the case ; such are the honour of god , and the edification of the church . ( . ) the answer is not to the purpose , unless it could be proved , that either the edification of the people , is no end of the divine offices ; or that the worship is compleat , though that end be not respected or attained in them . but if it be an end , and the service defective without that end be pursued ; then it is not , that this is a subordinate end , and the other a principal , that will destroy the force of the argument , and justify the use of an unknown tongue , when persons are not edified by it . . the protestants argue in particular that there can no profit proceed to the church from prayers not understood . to this it is answered , that it is false , because the prayer of the church is not made to the people , but to god for the people . and so there is no need that the people understand , and it is sufficient if god understands . but ( . ) if this argument hold , it will prove that which they do decline , and be a reason as well for private as publick prayers in an unknown tongue . for private prayer is also made to god , and by this way of reasoning it will follow , that it is sufficient that god understands it , though it is not understood by him that useth it . ( . ) grant we to them what is not to be denied , that prayer is not made to the people , but to god for the people : yet grant they must and do to us , that , it is the offering up our hearts , wants and desires to god , and is to excite us to the love and adoration of him . but if we cannot offer up our hearts , wants and desires to god , nor be excited to the love and adoration of him , by what we do not understand ; then it is as necessary for us to understand , as it is to have those qualifications when we pray . for both are supposed ; for that we pray , respects god , but that we speak in publick prayer respects the church . and though the principal end ( as they call it ) be regarded , and it be an honour and worship given to god : yet if the less principal be neglected , and the service is not ordered to the encrease of faith , love and devotion in those that offer it ( as it cannot be where the words , and so the things prayed for in those words , are not understood ) it makes the honour , said to be given to god , next to none : and it is much at one , whether there was no end at all propounded in worship , or such an end , as through a defect in it shall render the service no better in it self , and no more acceptable to god , than if there were none . but of this more anon . ii. i shall consider whether these ends for which divine service is appointed , can be attained , when it is performed in a tongue that is not understood ? the apostle saith , that the offices of divine worship are intended and should be ordered for the edification of the church , cor. . , . that is , say the rhemists , ( explaining that phrase ) for increase of faith , true knowledge , and a good life . but when this comes to be applyed to the case of divine service administred in an unknown tongue , they set aside the increase of knowledge and instruction , as if it were not concerned in it . so doth bellarmin , who saith , though the minds of common people be not instructed by service in an unknown tongue ; yet their affections are not without the benefit of it . if this argument signifies any thing , it must be either because divine service is not a means appointed for our instruction , and then he must thwart not only the apostle ( who saith it is for edification , and consequently for instruction , a branch of it ) but also their own church in the council of trent , which saith , that the mass doth contain great ▪ instruction for the faithful . or else he must say that the means of instruction may be rendred ineffectual at the pleasure of the church , ( as it is granted it is by being in an unknown tongue ) and yet neither the church be blamed , nor the institution of such means for such an end be disparaged , nor the souls of men receive any damage by the want of that instruction , and the means appointed for it . so that as far as instruction is an end , and the divine service is a means for that end , it is granted that the keeping it in an unknown tongue doth defeat that end : for he saith , that the minds of common people are not instructed by service in an vnknown tongue . and now what an usurpation is this upon god , to withhold that means that he has appointed , or to defeat the means of that end that he hath appointed it for ? what an injury to the souls of men ? and how much accessary must that church be to the miscarriage and damnation of such as perish for want of that knowledge and instruction the service and offices of the church do contain , and they might receive from it ? but suppose that end be lost , and the peoples minds be not instructed , yet their affections are not without the benefit of it . this is spoken with a caution and reservation becoming one that saw farther into the consequences of what he said , than he cared to own . he saith at large , their affections are not without the benefit of it : but how the affections could be benefited , without the mind is instructed ; or what the benefit is which the affections are not without , he is sparing to tell us . but however the rhemists advance a little farther ; for they with no little confidence do determine , it is plain that such as pray in latin , though they understand not what they say , do pray with as little tediousness , with as great affection and devotion , and oftentimes more than others , that pray in a tongue they understand . the cardinal told us , that the affections are not without benefit , though the mind be not instructed : but now it is to a demonstration plain ( in these men's account ) that not only the benefit is as great , as if people do understand , but oftentimes greater than if they did understand . so that what more self evident , than that ignorance is the mother of devotion ? but yet as plain as it is , the saying is so downright a contradiction to the common sense of mankind , that i think a man may venture as roundly to assert , that it is plain , a man may see without light , as that he may pray with affection and devotion , though he do not understand , and with as great as if he did : and he may with as good a grace maintain , that the best way to see , is to put out the light , as affirm with them , that such as pray in latin , though they do not understand , oftentimes pray with more affection and devotion than they that do understand . but because this is asserted with so much confidence , and that , to say that people are not profited without they understand , is condemned not only as an erroneous , but wicked assertion ; i shall look back , and ( leaving the extravagancy of the latter as self-exposed ) consider whether the affections are not without benefit , and that the soul can be devout and affected , where the understanding is not instructed , nor the mind is concerned in the service we are conversant in ? the resolution of which depends upon the consideration of the soul of man , and the several faculties of it . concerning which it shall suffice to observe , . that in all reasonable and deliberate acts , there is more or less so necessary a concurrence of the prime faculties of the soul , viz. the understanding , will and affections , that none of them can be said to be excluded . . that in all such acts if the understanding be not the leading faculty , and of such influence , that the others cannot act without it ( which must be supposed , for how can a person affect or choose what he doth not know ? ) yet without that , the acts cannot be termed reasonable . so cassiodore , no body doth any thing wisely which he doth not understand . . that in the acts of religion , the presence of the understanding is as much required as in any other rational acts whatsoever ; the renewing of the mind being there the spring of all spiritual action ; and the whole called from thence a reasonable service . and therefore if in other cases the affections cannot move or be profited without the help of the understanding , then as little can it be supposed in religion , and the offices belonging to it , where the understanding is sonus cordis , ( as s. austin calls it , applying it to our purpose ) the note of the heart . now to say , that the affections are not without profit , though the mind be not instructed ; and that they that do not understand , do pray with as little tediousness , and as great affection and devotion as they that do understand ( not to repeat the rest of the stuff before cited ) is to say that the affections have no dependance in nature upon the understanding ; or that religion requires less of us than any other reasonable acts whatsoever ; and that what we cannot do without being lunaticks or ideots in other matters , we may there creditably do , and speak , and act , as absurdly as we will , with allowance . but this kind of doctrine is only to serve a turn , being fitted to those that are fitted for it , and to whom nothing can be absurd , which some men say : for there are those amongst them cannot digest it ; and do determine otherwise . so salmeron the jesuit , if any one prayes privately , and the things prayed for are not understood by him , he wasts his time : so he that speaketh publickly in an vnknown tongue , which others do not understand , he doth yield no fruit ; and then certainly others receive none . this the council of trent doth acknowledge , when it declares ( as abovesaid ) it seems not expedient to the fathers , that the mass be celebrated in the vulgar tongue : and presently adds , lest the sheep of christ should hunger , and when the little ones ask bread , there is none to break to them ; the holy synod commands all that have the care of souls , frequently , &c. to expound somewhat of it . so that they grant without such explication , the faithful may hunger and be without profit ; for what need would there be of exposition , if the people may be as devout without it as with it ? i shall conclude this with that of s. austin , we ought to understand , that we may sing with humane reason , not as it were with the voice of birds . for both parrots , and crows , and pies , and the like , are often taught by men to pronounce what they do not know — but to sing with understanding is granted by the divine will to mankind . so that according to him , if we set aside the understanding , the parrot of the cardinal ascanius , had it been taught the lord's prayer , or other forms of devotion , as well as the creed , might have contended in competition with those that hear , and sing , and pray , with words , without understanding . since whatever affection and devotion is pretended to without knowledge , is like a vision of a man 's own heart , and not of divine illumination , that doth either proceed from imagination or imposture . but that we may not think this assertion of theirs [ that there may be profit without understanding , and devotion without knowledge ] to be unreasonable , they both produce experience , and endeavour also to give a rational account of it . the former is appealed to by the rhemists ; as for edification , that is , for increase of faith , true knowledge , and a good life , the experience of a few years hath given all the world a full demonstration , whether our fore-fathers were not , &c as devout , as we are in all our tongues , translations and english prayers . and we are told , that the people know what is done in the general , to wit , that god is worshipped and honoured ; that the priest prays to him ; that good things are asked of him for the people ; and thanks given to him , that the memory of christ and his passion are celebrated , and the sacrifice offered to god. this no clown is ignorant of ; and this is enough . this is somewhat like the course taken by socrates , that said , he only pray'd in general , because what particular things were good for him , the gods knew better than himself . but whether this be done among them , with as much reason ; and whether with any respect to our religion , and the several offices of it , is now to be consider'd . for our satisfaction herein we may observe , i. they grant , that the people can and do understand no more by their service than the general intent , and points of it . ii. that the people cannot apply these generals to the particular points of it . so the rhemists ; the simple people are not bound to know to what petition their part pertaineth , &c. it is enough that the people can tell this holy oraison [ the pater noster ] to be appointed to call upon god , &c. iii. that no more is necessary ; and though they are to ask special things of god , yet it-is not needful to understand what , or how , or when , or if at all they are specially prayed for . for then they would understand the specials . but now this state of the case will not solve the point . for , i. this is contrary to the apostle , who doth maintain , that as the publick service of god is to be ordered so , as to be for the edification of the church ; so the church cannot be edified , without the offices are administred in a tongue that shall as distinctly and particularly signifie and point to the thing thereby to be expressed , as a trumpet or the like instrument doth give notice by a distinction of sounds , when to advance or retreat , when to fight and when to forbear . and that every person , the unlearned as well as the learned , may know how to apply his amen thereunto ; but which he can no more do without understanding the tongue , than he can know what motion or posture he is to observe that hath the trumpet sounding to him without any distinction , and whose sounds and notes being confounded , give no direction to those that are to be guided by it . so aquinas , how shall he say amen , when he knows not what is pray'd for ; because he cannot understand , quid boni dicas , nisi quod benedicas ; what good thou sayest , except that thou dost bless ? ii. the nature of the thing is against it . for as the offices are various , and distinguished by their ends and uses ; and we cannot attain those ends , nor make use of those offices , without the understanding of those ends and uses : so there are particular things respected in those offices , which unless we also respect , we lose the benefit of them ; but that we cannot do without a particular knowledge of them . as for example , the romish catechism faith , that prayer is the interpreter of the soul , and is directed to god or the saints . that therein men do confess their sins , and pray for the pardon of them ; that they beg for others and themselves things temporal , spiritual and eternal ; that therein also they give thanks for whatever good they have received , and do enjoy . now as these things are of different kinds , so according to their kind they require different dispositions , and so what are suitable to the one will not be suitable to the other . but if the knowledge be only general , that cannot produce special dispositions ; and he that ventures to be particular therein , may rejoyce and give thanks when he is to mourn and confess ; may mind earthly things when the prayer is for heavenly ; may imprecate when he should bless ; and instead of ora pro nobis , may say miserere nobis , that is , make a saint to be god , and apply that to the officer of the court of heaven , which he should address only to the judge . he may be all the while in a posture of contradiction to the church , and have his dispositions so little suited to the solemnities of it , that the priests may say to such , with some little variation , in the words of the gospel , we have piped unto you , and ye have mourned ; we have mourned unto you , and ye have danced . so that unless they will say , there are no need of particular dispositions , according to the kinds , and special uses of the offices of religion , they must say , that service in an unknown tongue , is not for the edification of the church . so aquinas again , he who doth hear and not understand , is not edified as far as he understands not , although he undestand it in general . iii. if this were true , that a confused general knowledge is sufficient , yet this will not help them , or justifie them in the use of an unknown tongue : for even the general knowledge they pretend to , doth not proceed from the tongue ( for that they understand not ) but is obtained some other way , that is by some actions and postures , some particular words and phrases , some ceremonies and signals given in the administration of their service : and which would signifie as much for the most part without the tongue and words , as with the tongue that is not understood . iv. i shall add , that whereas they pretend experience in the case , and which for the present we shall not so far question , as utterly to deny , but that there may be , and is some devotion amongst the ignorant sort of them ; yet so far as this devotion of theirs is real , it must be because of somewhat understood , but so far as it is without instruction , so far unquestionably it proceeds only from the imagination ; and if it rises from no better or higher a cause , whatsoever semblance it may have of devotion , yet it hath no right to that character . i shall make this clear by an instance or two . not many years since , in a certain city of brabant , there was for ornament a large statue erected at a conduit near the market-place , to which the country people as they passed to and fro , did often pay their devotions ( not discerning any difference betwixt that and an image of a saint ) so much to the publick scandal , that ( to prevent any such mistake for the future ) it was by command transformed into a little boy , with a change also of the posture . now if we would enquire into this devotion , it is much what the same we are discoursing of . there wanted not an inward disposition , that inclined the people to it ; there wanted not outward expressions , for they bowed before it , kissed the feet of it , said their pater nosters , &c. before it , and all with as much devotion , as if it had been the image of s. roch , or s. sebastian , or s. michael himself ( the protector and patron of the place ) . and yet all this being applyed to a common , and not a religious object , and being only the fruit of imagination and not of instruction , it deserved another name than devotion , and was not so accounted by themselves . and now , why what is given , suppose to a right object , but without knowledge , should not be equivalent to the other , that was intended to a right , but was addressed , by mistake , to a wrong , is not easie to discern ? furthermore , let us suppose a case , a person being beforehand possessed with a report of certain persons met together upon a design of conjuration , comes to the place , and finds the company there assembled ; and hearing all that they say , performed in a language he understands not , he presently is seized with a pannick fear , and is every moment in expectation of the foul fiend's appearance at their summons , but is all this while abused , and under a mistake , for the persons were there met for religious worship , and so the ground of his fear imaginary . on the other hand , a person comes into a place , where he finds several met together , who using much the like postures as if they were at their devotions , and also words he understands not , but what for ought he knows , are the same that are used in the church service , he falls upon his knees , pulls out his beads , says an ave maria , or pater noster , or what he has been used to in that kind . and now can there be any reason after all to conclude , that this mans devotion arose from any other cause than the others fear , and that both did not proceed from the imagination ? and can there be any reason to think , that what proceeds from such a cause , is fit to be sainted , and be entitled to the name of true piety and devotion ? so that to talk of devotion without instruction , or instruction sufficient to create it , is to talk against the sense of mankind , in which there may be , for ought i see , as much of mystery , but no more sense than in the wonted saying of anthony of padua , produced by bellarmin on this occasion , that is a perfect prayer , in which the mind is so swallowed up into god , that it doth not understand its own words . in this they agree , that in both cases the words and the understanding are separated , but in this they differ , that his understanding was ( as it seems ) beyond the words ; but in our case the words are beyond the understanding . in both there is no need of words , and where they are used , they cannot be the means of devotion ; which is no more to be found without the understanding , than the understanding can be , can attend , or be moved by words that it hath no knowledge of . so that let them either take away the words altogether , and use no tongue in their service , and turn all into mummery and pageantry : or else let them use such words as will stir up religious affections in the faithful , and answer the end for which they are used in publick ( as they confess ) ▪ for though we should be of the same mind with bellarmin , that instruction is not in the sense , but in the words ; yet how a man can understand the sence contained in the words , without understanding the words containing the sence , is as hard to understand , as how we can be religious and devout , without understanding , and for we know not what . but to proceed to another question . iii. let us consider , whether the worship so performed , as to leave those ends unattainable , will be accepted by god ? divine worship respects god as its object , and so the end of it is the giving honour to him by suitable thoughts , words and actions ( as has been before observed ) but how that honour is to be given , as the nature of the thing , and divine institution are the rule ; so when that honour is given to him , the ends , for which the worship it self is appointed and the offices of it do serve , must determine . and if these ends are not respected , nor can be attained in the way of its ministration , we may be confident , that as the worship is not then worthy of god , so it is not accepted by him . now , as it has been already shewed what those ends are , so it has been proved , that those ends are not to be attained , where the service is not in a tongue known to the people , and so consequently will not be accepted by god. and for this we have the judgment of the romish church , when they discourse practically upon this argument , and without respect to the controversie before us . of this i shall give an instance in prayer , ( a point most of all insisted upon ) of which it is said in general in the romish catechism , that it is of special concernment after what manner we pray ; for although prayer be a saving good , yet unless it be rightly performed , it doth not profit . and elsewhere they insist upon several things that render our prayers ineffectual , as the ignorance of what we pray for ; and the want of attention or assent to what we pray , &c. and certainly if the prayer without these ends be not acceptable to god , then such a ministration of it , as renders those ends unattainable , cannot be lawful to us , or be thought approved by him . but how well and truly soever they speak in a case remote from controversie , yet when they come to controvert the point in hand , they do in effect unsay all that they have said ; and then the prayers used in the church , though not at all understood by the people , are magnified for their use and benefit to man , and for their acceptance with god. thus the rhemists , we doubt not but it is acceptable to god , and available to all necessities , and more agreeable to the use of all christian people to pray in latin than in the vulgar , though every one in particular , understandeth not what he saith . and ( saith cardinal hosius , ) when done to give honour to god , it is acceptable to him , and no understanding of words can be compared to it . to say that our prayers are hindred of their vertue through ignorance or want of attention , &c. and that they be acceptable to god , though we understand not what we say , are things irreconcileable . but setting aside the contradiction in it , they are not without some pretences to prove that the efficacy of the divine offices doth not depend upon the peoples understanding them . now i might ease my self of these kind of pleas , because they suppose that which has been already disproved , viz. that the affections can be benefited without the understanding . but yet because they are frequently produced to prove as well the no necessity of service in a vulgar tongue , and the lawfulness of having it in an unknown tongue , as that a service of that kind is acceptable to god , and efficacious to the people , i shall before i conclude this head ( to which they more peculiarly belong ) take them into consideration . now their arguments are taken partly from scripture , and partly from some cases supposed to be parallel to this . object . . they say , that the children in the temple , as well as the people cryed , hosanna to the son of david , matth. . . whereas they understood not what they said : and yet this was our saviour pleased with , and defended them in . but this is said with very little reason : for answ . . it is more probable that they did understand , than that they did not : hosannah being a form of solemn acclamation ; and as easie to be understood by them in the signification ; so also in the application of it to christ upon this occasion ; which , saith s. john . , . was , because the people had heard that he raised lazarus . and whereas our saviour applyes that of babes and sucklings to the case , that was not because these that cryed hosannah were such , but that because god never wanted instruments of his glory , but could make use of such as were mean and unfit in themselves for it . . supposing they did not understand , where is the consequence , that because young childrens prayers proceeding from the instinct of god's spirit be acceptable to god , therefore the voices of other simple folk , now in the church , though they themselves understand not what they say , be marvellous grateful to god , as the rhemists say . as if an extraordinary case should be a rule for us in an ordinary ; and that prayers proceeding from children , by the instinct of god's spirit , and who were little less miraculously empowered to do it , than the ass of balaam ( if they were sucklings , and such as could scarcely speak , as ledesma would have it ) should teach us to choose what we do not understand . or as if what was grateful to god from children , who were in no capacity of doing better than following of others , though they did not understand , should excuse , nay recommend the service of those that are in a capacity of understanding , and yet understand no more of what they offer to almighty god in particular , than if they were babes and sucklings , and such as had no understanding . the apostle in cor. . . doth upon this occasion exhort , be not children in understanding , so as to think god pleased with that which doth not benefit us ; or so as to think , that he who is so merciful as to accept according to what a man hath , should also be so remiss as to accept him that bringeth not what he hath . that when god hath given us a tongue and understanding , we should be debarred of the use of both in his worship and service , and yet our service and our selves be as well accepted , as if both were employed therein . certainly what will avail , where there is no capacity , will not avail when there is a capacity ; and therefore it is a mean way of arguing , and will receive the same answer , that they that have no use of reason , are truly and efficaciously baptized , and so there is no need of understanding ; and it would have confuted it self , if they had added , ( as they should ) therefore those that have 〈◊〉 understanding , may as lawfully act , and shall be as certainly accepted , though they use not that understanding , as if they did . object . . among the jews the prayers of the priest , when he entred into the holy of holys , were accepted , though the people were without , lev. . . and luk. . , . therefore the service of the church may be so said , as all the people understand it not , and also be accepted . answ . . it is acknowledged on both sides that the high priest's entring into the holy of holies , was typical of christ , and the atonement made by him , and consequently what the people could not bear a part in . but since the people are concerned with the priest in the offices of our religion , and are to set their amen to it , there is no parity betwixt the case then and the case now . . how is this a proof that they had their service in an unknown tongue ? or if they were to have it in a known tongue , how can they infer , that the high priest might have used an unknown tongue , when praying with the people , and that this should have been as acceptable to god , and as beneficial to them , as if it had been understood ? obj. . but they say , it proves thus much , that prayers though made for them , that do not hear or are absent , are effectual ; and then why not as well for them that do not understand them though present ? this is an argument they much insist upon . but , . if this were of any force , then we need no more to pray for our selves , because others pray for us , than we are not bound to understand what we pray , because thosethat pray for us do understand . . the dispute is not , whether persons in some cases may not be benefited by the prayers of others , though they do not understand them , as when the church prays for the absent as well as the present , and christ in heaven intercedes with success for his church here , and those that are present pray for children , lunaticks , and delirous : but whether such prayers are acceptable to god , which a person himself is obliged to joyn in , and yet so little understands , as he knows not what he prays for , whether for himself or others ; nor can be certain whether indeed he prays at all . monica prayed for her son austin with that fervour and devotion , with such passion and continuance , that s. ambrose told her , it was impossible a son of such prayers and tears should miscarry : but if she had prayed in a language she understood not , she would not have known what she prayed for , and she would then have found no tears for her prayers ; or if she had had prayers and tears , they had both been lost with her son. and although the priest be a publick person , and offers up our prayers to god , yet this doth not at all exclude the faithful from a share in them : and therefore as the priest is the mouth of the congregation , and as such , he must use a tongue the congregation understands : so the congregation is to attend to him , and to give their amen , and assent to what he in their name offers to god : and he is neither priest nor mouth to them , if he prevents them in their part , and renders them uncapable of bearing a part in it , by using a tongue they understand not . and therefore it 's as necessary the congregation should understand as the priest , and if he do otherwise , he can no more justifie himself , than if he did celebrate the service in a tongue he himself knew nothing of , and which neither the one nor the other did understand . so that upon the whole , we have reason to conclude with sanders , that an vnknown tongue is not profitable for the people ; though he will not allow it for that reason to be unlawful . and that is the thing i shall now particularly enquire into , by considering , iv. whether from the apostle's discourse upon this argument , it can be reasonably concluded , that divine service so administred , as not to be understood of the people , is unlawful ? in the apostle's discourse upon this argument , cor. . there are two things agreed in betwixt the contending parties . i. that the service of god is so to be ordered , as may be for the edification of the church , v. , , . and that what is inconsistent with the general , much more the universal edification of it , is not to be allowed . ii. that an unknown tongue in such assemblies and offices as the apostle speaks of , is inconsistent with , and cannot be for the publick edification , v. , , , , , . but though it be thus far agreed , yet they afterwards divide upon it from the protestants . for , . some of the church of rome do say , that it is evident from this place of scripture , that a vulgar and known tongue was not used in those days in publick worship . . that if so be such was then used , yet the apostle doth not forbid the use of an unknown tongue in it . the first do wholly found what they have to say , upon verse . how shall he that occupieth the room of the vnlearned [ or idiot ] say amen , at thy giving of thanks ? this shews [ say they ] that such giving of thanks was not accustomed to be made in the vulgar tongue ; for had the service been in the vulgar , there needed no man to have supplyed the place of the idiot . this at first sight may seem a pretty argument to one that understands no more than latin and english ; but the mischief of it is , that it 's not true . of this mind is bellarmin , &c. who saith , . that the greek phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to the use of that tongue , doth not signifie one that is in the stead of an idiot or unlearned , but thereby are meant all rude unlearned men. so chrysostom and theophylact expound it , &c. . there was no such custom in apostolical times , and long after , of one to answer in the place of the vulgar ; but that the people were wont to answer , as is evident from justin martyr , &c. after this argument has been so clearly relinquished , it might have been omitted by us , had it not been re-assumed with no little assurance and triumph by others since bellarmin's time . ii. those among them that do quit this , yet hold that the apostle doth not forbid a tongue so unknown , as the latin is now , in divine worship . and for this they offer several arguments , which will be all comprehended , and i conceive cleared , by considering , . what is meant by the unknown tongue , which the apostle condemns ? . what by the assemblies , in which such an unknown tongue is forbid ? . what by the service used in those assemblies ? . how far the apostle's prohibition is to be extended ? quest . . as to the first . they say , that the tongues condemned were miraculous and extraordinarily infused , but what they plead for is acquired and learnt . a. but supposing the tongues were miraculous ; yet what is this to the case in hand , when they were not condemned for being miraculous ( for as such they were gifts from god and signs to men ) but as they were abused , and used neither to the glory of god , nor the edification of the church . and by parity of reason , every unknown tongue , as well what is acquired as infused , is condemned also . the miraculous tongue was forbidden , when it did not profit , when it was a speaking to the air , when he that spoke was a barbarian to him that heard , and when he that heard could not say amen to him that spoke , verse , , , . and if a tongue acquired be as much unknown as a tongue infused , the reasons being common to both , the one is as much prohibited in those circumstances as the other . nay , according to their way of arguing , it will follow , that if tongues miraculously infused , which were a sign to them that believed not , might not be used in the cases abovesaid , then much less may such as are acquired , by education and other humane wayes . but they say farther , that the apostle speaks of a tongue which no one understands in the whole church , but not of that which is understood by some , at least by him that officiates . but for this they offer no manner of proof , neither is there any . for ( . ) the apostle speaks of such a tongue as is not for the edification of the church ; but if some only understand it , those that do not understand , are no more edified by the understanding of the rest , than if none understood it . ( . ) there are two sorts of persons concerned , one that can say amen , and another that cannot , whom the apostle calls vnlearned . but the unlearned are as well ( as he saith ) to be respected as the learned ; and the unlearned being ordinarily more than the learned ; it must consequently be such a tongue which all or the most did understand that he pleads for ; and such a tongue , which none or the fewest did understand , that he pleads against . lastly , they say , the apostle condemns a barbarous tongue , but not that which is understood by learned and civil people in every great city , as hebrew , greek and latin. so the rhemists . and we are further told , that all tongues are barbarous , except those three . but all this is spoken very precariously . for the apostle excepts no tongue , as a tongue , from being barbarous . for that is barbarous with him that is not understood , whether it be hebrew or arabick , greek or scythian , latin or dalmatick . in this sence ovid took it , speaking of himself in exile , amongst the getae , barbarus hic ego sum , quia non intelligor ulli : i am here a barbarian , because i am not understood by any . and in this sense it is here taken by ancient expositors . thus s. jerom , every speech which is not understood is barbarous . thus s. chrysostom , and indeed several also amongst themselves . so that upon the whole it is manifest , that the apostle means by an unknown tongue , that which is not understood of the people . quest . . what are the assemblies in which the apostle condemns the use of an unknown tongue ? the champions of this cause in the church of rome , do alledge , that much of the chapter refers to spiritual conferences and collocutory exercises then used in lesser assemblies , which they endeavour to prove more especially from the directions given by the apostle , verse , &c. if we should grant that part of the apostle's discourse refers to such conferences , yet what is this to that part of it that treats of publick worship ? or indeed what is it to the purpose at all , when there were mostly the same offices used in one as the other , and the same end prescribed to the use of them in both ? those that do thus distinguish , have not ventured to tell us where the apostle doth treat of the one , and where of the other : and it is evident that he applies his argument of edification to the whole , and then proceeds from one office to another , from prophesying to praying , and singing , if not also to the lords supper . now where the end is common to all , without distinction , the means conducing to that end are in all alike to be observed . and if in those lesser assemblies ( when they expounded , prayed or sung ) they were to use a tongue known to the assembly , because without so doing , the ends of their so assembling would have been defeated , then certainly it was , if not more , yet at least as necessary , that the same order be observed when the whole church came together into one place . quest . what was the service used in those assemblies , and that was forbidden to be celebrated in an unknown tongue ? some of the church of rome will understand it only of preaching ; and those that do grant it to respect prayers , yet will have it understood of such prayers as were inspired . but what though the prayers were inspired , when they were to be uttered in a tongue known to the church , and were not to be used if they were not for the edification of the church ; as they were not if not understood ? and is not the reason as full against prayers not inspired , when they are not understood ? the question is not about prayers , inspired or not inspired ; but known and unknown ; according to which all the offices of the church are to be tryed , as to their lawfulness and expedience . but let the prayers be as they will , yet say they , the apostle treats of them occasionally only . supposing this so to be , yet that is not to the purpose , for the question is not whether the apostle , treats so expresly of prayer as of prophesying ; as whether the prohibition of an unknown tongue , and the argument taken from the end of divine offices lie not as expresly against praying as prophesying in that way ? and whether the words , if i pray in an vnknown tongue , my spirit prayeth , but my understanding remaineth unfruitful , &c. v. , . are not as plain as he that speaketh [ or prophesyeth ] in an vnknown tongue , speaketh not unto men , &c. if the prohibition be the same , and the reason of the prohibition be the same in both ; then it is not the being expresly or occasionally handled , that can make so vast a difference , as that the former shall be lawful , and the latter unlawful . quest . . how far is the apostle's prohibition to be extended ? this will be determined partly from what hath been before said , and partly from the current of the apostle's discourse , who as he lays down that general rule , let all things be done to edifying ; so upon that principle , he prohibits the use of an unknown tongue , as inconsistent with it , verse . if i pray in an vnknown tongue , my spirit prayeth , but my understanding remaineth unfruitful . where he doth not speak of a better and worse , and prefer that which is understood before that which is not ( as they would have it ) but he speaks of a good and bad ; and so doth absolutely condemn an unknown tongue for the unprofitableness of it . for , saith he , my spirit prayeth , not the affection , but the spirit in the gift of an unknown tongue ( as many of the antients , and some of themselves expound it ) but my understanding remaineth unfruitful , to my self , that is , if i do not understand it ; and to others , if they do not understand me , as the apostle doth explain it , verse . so that from the whole we may with good reason conclude , that the administration of divine service in an unknown tongue is as unlawful as express scripture can make it : and that after all their attempts to decline , pervert and overthrow it , the fourteenth chapter of the first epistle to the corinthians , remains in full force against the opinion and practice of the church of rome ; and is a sufficient reason on their part , to keep the scriptures in an unknown tongue , as long as their service is , contrary to the scripture , celebrated constantly in it . sect . iii. i shall enquire , whether the celebrating divine service in a tongue not understood of the people , hath been the antient rite of every church ? i. i shall consider whether it hath been an antient rite ? ii. whether from the time of its having been a rite , it hath been the rite and custom of every church ? both of these are affirmed by the council of trent . qu. i. whether it hath been an antient rite ? antient is a term of an uncertain date , and seems to have been chosen by the council upon mature deliberation ; lest peradventure if it had been determined , it might have been so late , as to be of no authority in it self ; or so early , as , for want of truth , it might have given a foul shock to its own authority . but however , because nothing can be antienter than what is first , let us consider how service was administred in apostolical times , and so downwards , as much before the council as any thing can be reasonably said to be antient by it . i have already accounted for the apostle's sence in this matter , which cassander calls ( after s. chrysostome in loc . ) an apostolical command for service in a tongue understood of the people . and if we take a step lower , and so proceed , we shall find an uncontroulable evidence for it , both as to the judgment and practice of the church . in the first place ( setting aside the pretended liturgies of s. james and s. clement , which are however plainly for it , as is acknowledged ) is justin martyr , that flourished about years after christ , who relates , that after the bishop had concluded his prayer and giving of thanks , all the people did assent to it with an amen . which they could not have done , as the apostle and fathers affirm , unless they understood what was prayed for . to this purpose doth clemens alexandrinus also write , who lived toward the close of the second century . origen , who lived about the middle of the third century , saith , the greek christians in their prayers used the graecian , and the romans used the roman words , and each prays and praises god in his own tongue . and the lord of all tongues doth hear those that pray to him in all tongues , &c. s. cyprian at the same time , doth say , that the mind in prayer doth think of nothing else but what is prayed for . and therefore the priest before prayer doth prepare the minds of the brethren , by saying , lift up your hearts , that when the people doth answer , we lift them up unto the lord , they may be admonished , that they ought to think of nothing but the lord. for not the sound of the voice , but the mind must pray to the lord. dionysius alexandrinus , that lived in the same age , in a letter to xystus bishop of rome , doth write of a person that having been baptized by hereticks , upon the hearing the questions and answers at the baptism of the orthodox , questioned his own baptism . but saith he , we would not rebaptize him , because he had for a good while held communion with us in the eucharist , and had been present at our giving of thanks , and answered , amen . s. basil , who flourished about the year , putting the question , how the spirit prays , and the mind is without fruit ? answers , it is meant of those that pray in a tongue unknown to them that hear . for when the prayers are unknown to them that are present , the mind is without fruit to him that prays , &c. and as to the practice of the church in the publick service , he declares , that the people had the psalms , prophets and evangelical commands : and when the tongue sings , the mind doth search out the sence of the things that are spoken . and he relates how the christians used to spend the night in prayers , confessions and psalms ; one beginning , and the rest following . and that the noise of those that joyned in the prayers , was like that of the waves breaking against the shoar . with him we have s. ambrose agreeing ( that lived much about the same time ) who saith , it is evident that the mind is ignorant , where the tongue is not understood ; as some latines that are wont to sing in greek , being delighted with the sound of the words , without understanding what they say . and again , the unskilful hearing what he doth not understand , knows not the conclusion of the prayer , and doth not answer amen , that is , it is true , that the blessing may be confirmed . for by those is the confirmation of the prayer fulfilled , that do answer amen , &c. and he doth shew what an honour is given to god , what a reverence is derived upon our religion , and how far it excells the pagan , that he that hears understands , and that nothing is in the dark . and he saith , this is a symphony , when there is in the church a concord of divers ages and vertues : that the psalm is answered , and amen said , &c. toward the latter end of the same century lived s. chrysostome , who saith , that the people are much concerned in the prayers , that they are common to them and the priest ; that in the sacrament , as the priest prays for the people , so the people for the priest . and that those words and with thy spirit , signifie nothing else — and what wonder is it , that in the prayers the people do talk with the priest ? and elsewhere he saith , that the apostle shews that the people receive no little damage , when they cannot say amen . to conclude , bellarmin saith , that in the liturgy which bears this fathers name , the parts sung by the priest , deacon and people , are most plainly distinguished . to him let us add s. jerom his cotemporary , who declares that at the funeral of paula in jerusalem , the multitude did attend , and sung their psalms in hebrew , greek , latin and syriack , according to the nations they were of . and we are further told , that at bethlem there resorted gauls , britains , armenians , indians , &c. and there were almost as many choirs of singers as of countries ; of a different tongue , but of one and the same religion . and the same father tells us , that at rome the people sounded forth amen , like to the noise of thunder . next let us consult s. augustine , of the same time , who saith , that no body is edified by what he doth not understand . and , that the reason why the priest lifts up his voice in the church when he prayeth , is not that god , but the people may hear and understand , and joyn with him . and that whereas the bishops and ministers of the church were sometimes guilty of using barbarous and absurd words that they should correct it that the people may most plainly understand , and say amen . and elsewhere ( as has been quoted before ) exhorts that they be not as parrots and pies that say they know not what . thus far our authorities do proceed with little interruption . for bellarmin doth grant , that not only in the times of the apostles , all the people were wont to answer in divine offices ; but that the same was a long time after observed both in the eastern and western church , as is evident from s. chrysostome , s. jerom , &c. now having derived the title thus far for above years , we need not be much solicitous for what was introduced afterwards ; but yet for a farther confirmation , i shall add some testimonies of a later date . such is that known edict of the emperour justinian ( who dyed anno . ) in which it is thus enacted , we command all bishops and priests to celebrate the holy oblation , and the prayers in sacred baptism , not in a low , but such a voice , as may be heard by the people ; that thereby their hearts may be raised up with greater devotion , and honour be given to god ; for so the holy apostle teacheth , in the first to the corinthians , for if thou only bless with the spirit , &c. to this i shall add that of isidore hispalensis , that lived in the end of the fifth century , who saith , that it behoveth that when it is sung in the church , that all do sing ; and when prayers are offered , that all do pray ; and when there is reading , that all do read , and silence being made , that all hear . this is also agreeable to the former opinion of the church of rome it self ; and for proof of which , what can we desire more than the declarations of popes and councils ? and this we have . for we read of a permission given by the pope to the moravians , at the instance of cyril ( who had converted them and other nations of the sclavonians ) to have divine service in their own tongue ; and that he and the conclave were induced to it ( when not a few did oppose it ) by a voice from heaven , that said , let every spirit praise the lord , aud every tongue confess to him , as aeneas sylvius , afterward pope , relates . and pope john the viii . ( not long after , in anno . ) writes thus to sfento opulcer , a prince of the sclavonians , we command that the praises and works of our lord christ , be declared in the same [ sclavonian ] tongue . for we are admonished by sacred writ , to praise the lord , not only in three , but in all tongues , saying , praise the lord all ye nations , praise him all the people . and the apostles filled with the holy ghost , spake in all tongues . and s. paul admonisheth let every tongue confess ; and in the first to the corinthians , he doth sufficiently and plainly admonish us , that in speaking we should edifie the church of god. neither doth it hinder the faith or doctrine , to have the mass sung , or the gospel and lessons well translated , read , or other divine offices sung in the same sclavonian tongue ; because he who made the three principal tongues , viz. hebrew , greek and latin , made all to his praise , &c. and conformable to this is the decree of the council of lateran under innocent iii. anno . that because in many parts , within the same city and diocess , there are many people of different manners and rites mixed together , but of one faith , we therefore command that the bishops of such cities or diocesses provide fit men who shall celebrate divine offices , according to the diversity of tongues and rites , and administer the sacraments . this may be further confirmed by the very ▪ offices of the church of rome ; but this is sufficient to shew that the church of rome hath departed from scripture , antiquity , and it self , when it doth require that divine service be performed in a tongue unknown to the people : and that it was never the opinion of the fathers , nor any church , nor even of the church of rome , that it is most expedient to have it so performed . so little was it then thought that religious things the less they are understood , the more they would be admired ; and that to preserve a reverence for them , and the people from dangerous errors , it is requisite to keep them from being understood . so little was it pleaded , that there are any tongues sacred in themselves ; and that as the three upon the cross of christ , are to be preferred before others , and to exclude the rest ; so the latin as next to the head of christ , is the most venerable of the three . so little was it then thought that there is a certain kind of divinity in latin , and something more of majesty , and fitter to stir up devotion than in other tongues . so little were they afraid , that latin would be lost , if the service were not kept in it ; or however , so little evident is it , that they valued the preservation of that tongue above the edification of the church . lastly , so little did they think of the expedience of having the service in one common tongue , as latin , that christians wherever they travel , may find the self same service , and priests may officiate in it as at home . as if for the sake of the few that travel , the many that stay at home should be left destitute , and for one mans convenience , . be exposed to eternal perdition . these are arguments coined on purpose to defend the cause , and so are peculiar to the church that needs them . ii. let us consider , whether from the time of its having been a rite , it hath been the rite of every church . to this i shall only produce their own confessions , for it is acknowledged that the armenians , aegyptians , habassines , muscovites and sclavonians , have their service in a tongue known to the people . and their giving them the hard names of hereticks , schismaticks and barbarous , will not save the council from being fallible , when it saith , it is the rite of every church . but were there no such churches in the world , that herein practised contrary to the church of rome , yet it would no more justifie her , than it can make that good which is evil , that expedient which is mischievous to the church of god , or reconcile one part of the council to the other , that when it hath declared , the mass contains great instruction for the people , yet adds , that it is expedient and an approved rite , that it be not celebrated in the vulgar tongue . but say they , this is granted , if there were no interpretation , but that is provided for by the council , for it is ordered , that lest christs sheep should hunger , all that have the care of souls shall frequently expound , &c. and that we are now to consider . sect . iv. whether the provision made by the council of trent , for having some part of the mass expounded , be sufficient to countervail the mischief of having the whole celebrated in a tongue not understood of the people , and to excuse the church of rome , in the injunction of it ? this is the last refuge they betake themselves to ; confessing that without an interpretation s. paul is against them , but with this , they plead , he is for them . but what shall we then think of the case in their church at a time , when as the people could not understand , so the priests could not interpret , and wanted both the gift , and had not acquired so much as the art of it ? what shall we think of their case , and their church , that hath neither provided nor doth use such an interpretation as the apostle speaks of , but what differs as much from it in respect of the light it gives to the people , as both that and the tongue they use , do in the way by which they are obtained ? if it were a translation , what a ludicrous thing would it be for a church in its constant service to take , suppose , the lord's prayer in pieces , and first pronounce it in latin , and then in english ? but as they do not permit their offices , not the horae b. virginis , breviary , or mass book to be translated into a vulgar tongue : so the verbal translation of it , during the celebration of mass , was never thought of by the council , but was thereby condemned , as the cause and seedplot of many errors ; as we are informed in a letter , wrote upon the occasion of voisin's translation , by the whole clergy of france , to pope alexander the seventh . and whatsoever the exposition did refer to ( let it be what it will ) yet it was not to the devotional part , as sanders declares ; who ( after he had pleaded that an unknown tongue with interpretation , was the perfect fulfilling of s. pauls advice ) perceiving a difficulty behind , throws all off with this , if the interpretation of prayers be laid aside for a season , it is however not to be thought , that it is to be omitted for ever , &c. so that at most , no more was intended than a short exposition of some doctrinal point or ceremony ( which might as well be called an exposition of the breviary , or any other book , containing much the same things , as the missal ) and it is probable that so much as this also was never intended , which if ever , is very rarely practised amongst them . insomuch as ledesma saith , that the sence of the council was , that the people should be instructed only by sermons , indeed they would rather have this go for an argument , than dispute it . they do as the irish by their bogs , run over it lightly , for fear if they tread too hard , it will not support their cause but stifle it . and therefore they wheel off again , and then tell us , that it being a known set form , in one set language , those that are ignorant of it at first , need not continue so , but by due attention and diligence may arrive to a sufficient knowledge . as if the poor people are inexcusable , if they do not arrive to a sufficient knowledge of the tongue ( which must be learned before the things ) without other helps than their own attention and diligence ; when the priests and others are trained up to the knowledge and understanding of latin by rules , masters , and frequent exercise . surely they had the mass in latin , when the learned themselves did not understand it , as valla saith . they had the mass in latin , when the greatest part of the people did not understand it , as faber relates . they had the mass in latin , when not only the people but the priest and deacons , rarely understood what they prayed , for as billet , &c. confess . and where was then their attention and diligence , that to their lives end , either daily rehearsed it , or often heard it , and yet never understood it ? and is it not so still , when notwithstanding all the noise of exposition , manuals and primers , &c. for the use of the vulgar , yet ( setting aside some little forms , and the ceremonies of it ) they are so ignorant of the contents of the missal or mass book , that as to the matter of it , they know it not from the breviary ; nor would know it from the alcoran , if read in the same tongue , alike pronounced , and the same falls and postures were used in the reading of it ? so that what more plain than the means they have provided is not sufficient for to instruct and edifie the people ; and that after all , they do hold this instruction unnecessary , and that the people are safe without it ? and this is the case , for it is generally resolved by their casuists , both for priest and people , that they do their duty and merit , when they say their prayers , though they do not understand ; so eckius , so salmeron , &c. and if it were otherwise , very few would do their duty , when so very few do at all understand what they say , as cardinal tolet doth determine . so indulgent are they ; and very reasonable is it that they should be so , that when they have put out the peoples eyes , they should take good care to make the way broad and smooth for them . but in good earnest , can we think this way as safe as it is broad , and that there is no ditch into which both priest and people , if alike blind , may fall and perish ? and if there be , must not the case of that people be very lamentable that are wholly left to the ability and sincerity of their priest ? who if he wants the former , may , through ignorance , turn the most solemn part of their service , as it happens , into nonsense or blasphemy . and if he wants the latter may use a spell for prayer , and the antient charm of abracadabra for ave maria ( as a learned person hath observed ) . nay instead of baptizing in the sacred name of the father , &c. he may do by the person , as a jew under the profession of a priest , is said to have done by a certain prince in the last age , and baptize him in the horrid name of the devil . there is then nothing so absurd or wicked , which , according to the case , may not be practised . and neither prayers be prayers , nor sacraments sacraments , nor persons christians , as long as the priest doth alone know , or neither priest nor people understand . but supposing that there be no defect in either of these , and that the whole service is faithfully and understandingly performed ; yet if the tongue in which it is performed be not understood of the people , there can be no understanding of the sence contained in it ; and where the sence and matter is not understood , there cannot be ( as i have shewed ) those dispositions of soul , that attention of mind , that faith which gives the amen to our prayers , &c. and which renders the service acceptable to god and beneficial to our selves ; and consequently a service so contrived , as shall defeat those ends , is one of the greatest mischiefs that can befal a church , and must render the romish church inexcusable in the injunction of it , and justifie those that have reformed it . sect . v. we are come to enquire , whether upon the whole , the service of god ought not to be celebrated in a tongne vulgarly understood ? the church of rome doth anathematize , and doom to hell , those that hold a vulgar tongue necessary in divine service ; and doth both absolutely forbid their own missal to be so translated , and persecute those that have so used it . and yet they cannot , dare not say it is unlawful in it self . for it is better to have it in the vulgar than not at all ; saith one . it is matter of discipline , saith a second . it hath been granted in some cases , is acknowledged by others . and it is most expedient to have it in the vulgar , saith a fourth . and if so , why this diligent care to prevent and suppress it ? why this out-cry against it ? why this severity ? what need of such decrees and anathemas of councils ? what need such commands of the popes for princes to oppose it with all their force ( as that of gregory vii . to vratislaus of bohemia ) what reason is there for a general convention of the clergy of a kingdom to proceed against a translation of their missal ? when if we consult the ends for which the publick service was instituted , if we consult the reason of the thing ; if we consult scripture , or fathers , or the practice of the church for about seven hundred years together , we shall find that it is not only expedient , but necessary to have it in a tongue understood of the people , and that the church of rome that is so forward in its anathema , is under a precedent , and greater one , even that of the apostle , whosoever shall preach any other gospel , let him be anathema . so that which is most to be respected , the anathema of heaven , or that of the council ; the command of god , or a decree of a pope ; the church of god in its best times , or the particular church of rome in latter ages ; whether the edification of the church of god , or the will and interest of a corrupted church , is not difficult to conceive . and therefore we may end as we began , with the church of england . it is a thing plainly repugnant to the word of god , and the custome of the primitive church , to have publick prayers in the church , or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e article . comment . in eccles . . . in ep. corinth . c. . stapleton . quaest . quodl . quaest . . sixtus senens . biblioth . l. . annot . . portraiture of the church of jesus christ , c. . conc. trid. sess . . ● . . s. c. answ . to dr. pierce , c. . retento ubique cujusque ecclesiae an . iquo ●itu . sanctissimi hujus sacrificii aliquod mysterium . canon . collectio quorundam author . &c. cum dicretis , &c. . de script . div. & missae sacr . celebr . ling. vulg . c. . ● . . ci● . pro archi● . hiero● . tom. . l. . prooem . ad galat. tom. praef . l. in pa●alip . ledesma c. . l. valla eleg. praef . ledesma , c. . . . l. . confess . c. . retract . l. . c. . in ps . . de verb. apostol . serm. . de doctr. christ . l. . c. ledesma , c. . n. , , . c. n . sanders orat . de ling. offic. eccl. ledesma , c. . n. . lizettus de ss . in vulg . non vert . p. . bellarm. de verbo , l. . c. . orat. ut antea . ledesma , c. . n. . c. . n. . ledesma , c. . n. . sanders orat . bellarm. de verb. l. . c. . p. sanctae not . in epist . p. molinaei , c. . n. . t. g. first reply to dr. stiling fleet , sect . . de verbo , l. . c. . sect. obj . quart . annot. cor. . p. . censur . propos●t . erasmi , prop. ● . poncet discour . de l' advis . ch . . rhen. annot. part. . c. . sect. . . de doctr. ch●ist . ● . . bellarm. de verbo , l. . c. . sect. obj. . bellarm. ibid. sect. obj. . ledesma , c. . n. . ut supra . pag. . de verbo , l. . c. . sect. obj. . sess . c. . annotat. in cor. . p. . ledesma , c. . n. . censura proposit . erasmi , prop . in psalm . . rom. . , . in genes . lit. l. c. . & in ps . . in cor. . exposit . in psalm . . rhodiginus , l. . c. . jerem. . . pag. . hosius , p. . ledesma , c. . n. . p. . cor. . , , , . in cor. . part. . c. . sect. . c. . sect. , , . c. . sect. . . c. . sect. . de orat . domin . catechis . c. . sect. . ibid. de verbo , l. . c. . sect. obj. . praeterea . catechis . trid. p. . c. . sect. . de verbo . l. . c. . sect. object . . part . c. . sect. . ibid. c. . sect. annot in cor. . p. . et annot. in mat. . . de ling. vernac . p. . ledesma , c. . n. . annot. in matth. . . bellarm. l. . de effectu sacram. c. . rhem. annot . p. . ledesma , c. . n. . touchstone of the reformed gospel , c. . ledesma , ibid. bellarm. de verb. l. . c. . sect. obj. . ledesma , ● . . n. . bellarm. ibid. orat. de ling. offic. eccles . ledesma , c. . n. , &c. sanders , orat . de lingua , &c. de verbo , l. . c. . sect. alii ergo . rhem. annot . p. . marg. v. petrae sanctae c. . ● . . touchstone of the reformed gospel , c. . p. . ledesma , c. . rhem. annot . p. . bellarm. ibid. sect. vera igitur . sect. at objicies . sect. in posteriore . s. c. p. . annot. p. . harding in jewel . divis . . p. . joh. baptistae de rubeis rationale , l. . c. . sanders orat . &c. in loc . salmeron . iyra in loc . bellarm. c. . init . rhemists annotat . p. . bellarm. ibid. sect. vera igitur . sect. ad hanc igitur . rhemists annot . in cor. . . p. . sanders orat . p. , . bellarm. sect. in posteriore . rhemists annot . p. . s. chrysost . homil. . theophylact. salmeron in loc . hieren . in loc . de offic. pii viri , p. . salmeron in cor. . sect. his igitur . apolog. sub fin . contra c●s . l. . p. . cantabr . in orat . dom. n. . apad euseb . eccles . hist . l. . c. . tom. . arg. brev . ●eg . . tom. . in psal . . tom. . epist . . cler. neocaes . tom. . hexameri . hom. . sub fin . in cor. . v. nam siora . ero . ibid. quis supplet locum . ibid. si a. omnes prophetant . tom. . comm. l. . in lu● . . p. . par. . in cor. c. . homil. . 〈◊〉 . in cor. . hom. . l. . c. . sect. idem etiam . v. chrysost . tom. . par. . tom. . epitap . paulae ad eusto●hium . e●ist . paulae ad marceilam . tom. . prooem . . ad galat. tom. . in genes . l. . c. . lib. de magis●ro c. , & . de catechis . rud . c. . in psal . . c. . sect. sed neque . novel . . see this vindicated in bishop jewels reply to harding's answ . p. . de eccles . off . l. . c. . aentas sylvius hist . bohem. l. . c. . anno . concil . tom. . epist . . . paris , . can. . vid. cassandei liturg. c. . epist . cleri gall. collect . p. . epist . p. alex. . in collect. p. . hosius , p. . bellarm. sect. septimo . p. sanct. c. . n. . e. w. truth will out , p. , . boterus , c. . portraiture , c. . p. . bellarm. l . de missa , c. . sanders orat . p. . rhem. annot. p. . cassander . liturgie . c. , , . ledesma , c. . n. . bellarm. c. . sect. obj . ult . salme on . in cor. . sect. septimo . s. c. answ . to d. piece , ● . . sanders orat . p. . extract . ex regist . facult . p●r. an . . collectio ▪ p. . censurae , an. ▪ p. . procez . contr . voisin an. . p. . &c. epist . cleri an. . p. . orat. &c. p. . cap. . sect. decret . con. trid. n. . s. c. answ . p. . elegant . praef. in cor . cassand . liturg . c. . sixt. senens . biblioth . . annot. . s. c. p. . salmeron . in cor. . disp . . instruct . sacerd . c. . n. , & . d. stillingfleet answ . to t. g. c. . sect. . b llarm . c. . sub fin . t. g against d. stilingfleet , sect . n. . p. . ledesma , c. . n. . cassander . de off . pii viri , p. . art. . a sermon preach'd at the funeral of the reverend thomas jekyll, d.d. late preacher at the new chappel, westminster, october , / by john lord bishop of chichester. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preach'd at the funeral of the reverend thomas jekyll, d.d. late preacher at the new chappel, westminster, october , / by john lord bishop of chichester. williams, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for h. walwyn ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. errata: p. . advertisement: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng jekyll, thomas, - . funeral sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preach'd at the funeral of the reverend thomas jekyll , d.d. late preacher at the new-chappel , westminster , october . . by john lord bishop of chichester . london : printed for h. walwyn , at the three legs in the poultrey , against stocks-market . . to my good friend mrs. jekyll , relict of dr. thomas jekyll . madam , it was the desire of our deceased friend , that i should preach his funeral sermon ; and it is at your's that i now publish it . i am truly sensible that the design of both was to do some service to religion , and to those that do survive . it being ( as he well knew ) one of the best opportunities that we have for it , when we have , as it were , the dead speaking to the living , and the occasion giving life and force to the doctrine . and great pity it is , that this should any where grow into disuse ; and that the good that might by such seasonable discourses redound to the souls of men , too often gives way to the pomp of the funeral . we all have a loss by the death of our deceased friend ; the church , his auditory , and his acquaintance ; but more especially you , and the branches derived from both . it is a loss that only the father of all mercies , and god of all comfort , can support you under ; and to him i commit you , who has promised that all things shall work together for good to them that love god. i am , madam , your faithful friend and servant , john chichester . a sermon preached at the funeral of dr. jekyll . hebrews iv. . let us therefore fear , lest a promise being left us of entring into his rest , any of you should seem to come short of it . this epistle was written to the hebrews , that is , such jews as had been bred up under the law of moses , but were converted to the christian faith : and the chief design of it was to confirm them in it ; that neither by the force of their former education , the fear of persecution , nor the sly insinuations of false teachers , they should be prevailed with ( as too many had been ) to desert it . to this purpose , amongst other arguments used to dissuade them from so doing , the apostle shews the jewish constitution to have been temporary and imperfect , a figure for the time then present ; and a shadow of good things to come : and that the persons and places , the ceremonies and ordinances , the actions and events of it had a respect chiefly to what was to be , and should be compleated under the gospel . of this kind was canaan , a land of rest , which god promised to their forefathers : and yet notwithstanding , for their unbelief and disobedience , he swore that none of that generation ( except caleb and joshua ) should enter into it , and so their carcases fell in the wilderness . this was the state then , and parallel to this , saith he , is the state of christians now , who have a rest , as they had , and which god has promis'd . but withal , the same conditions are annex'd to this , as were before to that ; and so no more can we enter into the christian rest , because of unbelief , than they could for the same reason enter into their rest , the land of canaan , as the apostle argues : and accordingly he infers in the text ; let us therefore fear , lest a promise being left us of entring into his rest , any of you should seem to come short of it . in discoursing upon which words , . i shall consider the state here described and contained in the words , his rest . . the security and certainty of that rest , if we our selves come not short of it . . the possibility and danger of falling short of this rest , notwithstanding it is promis'd . . i shall shew , that from these considerations , there is sufficient reason for the caution in the text , let us therefore fear , lest , &c. . i shall consider the state , called here , his rest . the rest promised to the jews was temporal , a rest which after forty years travel in the wilderness , they entered upon under the conduct of joshua , according to god's promise . but , saith our apostle , this was the gospel preached unto them , v. . that is , their rest in canaan was a type and figure of a more excellent state , more clearly revealed in the gospel . this he proves from psalm . where it is said , that upon the unbelief and disobedience of that generation , god swore that they should not enter into his rest. that was thus far literally true of the israelites , whose carcases fell in the wilderness : but withal he shews , that it is there to be understood in a higher sense , and not of a rest that is past , such as god's was , when he ceased from the works of creation : nor can it be understood of canaan , for that was a rest they enter'd upon four hundred years before the time of david . but it must be understood of another sort of rest yet to come , which the sabbath and canaan were a type of . this he farther confirms by the observation he makes on the phrase in the psalmist , to day , after so long a time , from the entrance into canaan , to the time of david . for if jesus ( that is joshua ) had given them rest , then would not be afterward have spoken of another day . from all which the apostle concludes , there remaineth therefore a rest to the people of god. but as the rest here spoken of is yet to come , so it is a rest far more excellent than that of a temporal canaan . but this would not be so , if that psalm were only a prophecy of some peaceable and halcyonian days that the christian church should enjoy about a thousand years after that time ; during only the short reigns of the two roman emperors , vespasian , and his son titus ( ●s some have conceiv'd . ) can we think that so short a time of rest , as the christians had between nero and domitian , could be the subject of that prophecy ? and that this was all the comfort the apostle gave to his desponding hebrews , that the storm coming on , or that then overtook them , should soon vanish ; and then they should have as many years of rest for it ? is this all the rest , which many of those he wrote this epistle to , should never live to see , and which a natural , or else a violent death by persecution , might deprive them of their part in ? is this all which the apostle means , when he saith , there remaineth a rest , or sabbatism , to the people of god ; and that he that is entered into it , hath ceased from his own works , from all the toil and distress , the troubles and sorrows of an afflicted life ? no , certainly it is a more excellent and divine rest than that of an earthly canaan , which is thus emphatically called god's rest ; a perfect and an eternal rest , resembling that of god ; when they rest from all their labours , and their works follow them . a rest , which above all they are to be solicitous about ; let us labour ( saith the apostle ) therefore to enter into that rest , v. . and in the text , let us fear — lest we come short of it . heaven is indeed a rest with respect to this present life ; as that of the israelites was , when they rested after their pilgrimage in the wilderness , and from all their enemies round about , so that they dwelt in safety . but withal , it is a state of enjoyment , happiness , and perfection , such a rest as god himself doth enjoy , and they shall enjoy with him . for it is called his rest , not only as to what god himself doth enjoy , but with respect to his promise , by which he hath made it ours , and assured it to us . which brings to . the security we have of this rest , and that is from the promise of god. thus it was in the typical state of the jews , to whom canaan was promis'd , called therefore the land of promise , hebr. . . and after the same manner is this christian rest confirmed , call'd therefore the promise of an eternal inheritance , hebr. . . and by way of eminency , the promise , hebr. . . at the first it was a meer act of grace and favour ; there was neither merit before-hand on our part , nor could there be recompence after : but now it is unalienable , and what we can no more fail of obtaining upon the terms of the gospel , than god can be unfaithful , and cease to be what he is : and therefore for our comfort and satisfaction , as life and immortality is brought to light through the gospel ; so he has been pleas'd to pass over a right unto us by his promise , and hath given us the liberty of pleading it . upon the undoubted title thereby given unto us , we are said to have everlasting life , joh. . : because , by virtue of the promise , we are as sure of it , as if we were actually possess'd of it . so that we need not look any farther for a ground of our hope and confidence than this ; and if we perform the conditions required of us , and that there be not in us an evil heart of unbelief , in departing from the living god — if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end , we are ( saith our apostle ) made partakers of christ , i.e. of all the benefits here and hereafter which he hath purchased , and god through him hath promised . but if we fail on our part by not performing the conditions , if we are wanting in caution and diligence , we disparage the state , the rest , which god hath promis'd : and if we are wanting in our trust and confidence in god , upon his promise ; we disparage him , and divest him of those perfections of goodness and faithfulness , which make him to be what he is , and without which he could not be god. but as certain as this record is , that god hath thus given us eternal life : and that this life is in his son , in whom all the promises of god are yea and amen ; yet , . there is a possibility of falling short of this rest. there could be nothing more firm than the promise of canaan made to abraham and his carnal seed : but we see , for want of having trust and faith in god , which were necessarily and indispensably requir'd , all that came out of egypt , except two , fell in the wilderness , and they could not enter in , because of their unbelief : and god that had thus obliged himself by promise to give them that land for an inheritance , did also swear , that they should not enter into his rest. now if those murmurers and unbelievers were excluded that pleasant land , which was thus promised and secured ; then there is the same reason , that the christian and eternal rest , which is infinitely beyond that terrestrial rest , should not be obtained without the like qualifications then required of them ; and that infidelity and disobedience should now as well deprive us of the greater , as it did them of the less valuable inheritance . for the promise of god doth not any more oblige him now , than it did then , to exceed the measures set to his kindness and beneficence . and therefore as the apostle hath compared state with state , in the nature of it , as it 's a rest ; and in the assurance we have of it , as it is promised : so he doth also carry on the parallel in the conditions upon which the promise is suspended , and they are faith and obedience ; the hearkning to the voice of god , and not hardning their hearts . and accordingly he takes occasion from what befel the jews , to exhort his christian hebrews to take warning by them , in the text , let us therefore fear , &c. so that whatever proof we have of the goodness of god in revealing such a state of rest and happiness to us ; yet as the meer revelation of such a state will not entitle us to it without a promise , so neither will the promise alone alter the case , as long as it is confined and limited by certain conditions to those that are duly qualified for it . let us fear , saith the apostle , lest a promise being left us , &c. which caution needed not to have been added , if there had been no danger of falling short ; and fall short we could not , if the promise had given us an absolute and unlimited title to it . so that the caution it self doth suppose a qualification on our part to be necessary : and yet not content with that , the apostle , as sensible that we cannot get far enough from such an impendent danger ; he adds , let us fear , lest any of you seem to come short of it . where if the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we translate seem , be not an expletive , without any determinate signification , ( as sometimes it is ) it shews that there is so much hazard of miscarrying and apostacy , by reason of the temptations of this present life , proceeding from the world , the flesh , and the devil ; and so great a prejudice will redound to us , if we do , that we cannot be too cautious . beware , saith he , lest any of you seem to come short of it . which brings us to the next general . . there is sufficient reason for this caution of the apostle , let us fear , &c. here i shall look back upon the text , and shall apply it to the several considerations here referred to , as so many arguments to a vigilant circumspection and diligent care. as , . an argument may be taken from the nature of the state , as it is called a rest , and his rest. rest is a word that signifies more than what this world affords ; there is no person , no condition of life can challenge it , or entitle it self to it ; it is not to be found within us , nor without us . not within us ; for we have infirmities grow up in us , as well as troubles that surround us . our bodies are in their composition frail and crazy , subject to numberless diseases ; the air we breathe in , the diet we feed on , the passions of the mind , nay even the medicines we use by way of prevention or remedy , do often beget or stir up in us those humours , that carry us out of the world , or unfit us for the enjoyment of it . and our minds have infirmities as well as our bodies ; our tempers fickle and uncertain ; we suffer by precipitancy on the one hand , and obstinacy on the other ; by imprudence , neglects and follies . and our bodies and souls as conjoyned , do contribute to each others infirmities ; and the dispute between them is , whether temper or reason shall govern . so that we our selves prevent , and often supplant our own satisfaction . but then were it otherwise with us , that as we naturally love our selves , so we may attain to self-satisfaction ; yet however willing and dispos'd we are to be quiet and at rest , we must ask leave of a thousand things to obtain and secure it ; of every one we have to deal with , and live amongst ; for our conversation , our business , our professions , that are in themselves useful and necessary , yet do minister to our trouble ; for thence do arise suspicions and jealousies , quarrels and misunderstandings . or suppose we lived so as to assist and be assisted by others friendships with chearfulness , and lived in perfect peace and amity , as we are private persons ; yet we are but part of a city or nation , and so must fare as the nation or city doth , and lose by its loss as we may gain by its gain , and must rejoyce and mourn , and be as the general state of the country is . suppose farther , that a nation would be quiet ; that the government is framed for peace , and the rights of governours and governed so well laid out , and all publick orders so well observ'd and inviolably maintain'd , that there are no jarrings nor discord , no grudgings nor animosities : yet this is but one nation , and this to the world is as one man to another , and so can no longer be quiet than other nations will permit it . the ambition or covetousness of a foreign prince may bring him upon them , and in their own defence they must take up arms , and engage in a doubtful war. so that we may as reasonably expect , that the body which hath so many several vessels , humours and juices , should enjoy a constant and uninterrupted state of health , and all those humours be so exactly ballanced and allayed , that there should be no commotion or disturbance in it , as that this world should be a place of rest. men must be without bodies , and there must be no such thing as sickness and mortality : or without passions and appetites ; and so no such thing as ambition and pride , anger and revenge , covetousness or lust , prejudices , nor interest : they must have nothing within to dispose , and nothing without to excite , if they will talk of rest , and expect it . that is an vtopian state , and has here no other existence than in imagination . but then if we add to the account the providence of god , and the accidents of life , the argument grows upon us ; we are never secure ; and we know not , but though the sun rises upon us in its glory and brightness , it may be with us as it was with sodom , and close in a dismal destruction ; and we that rise in a state of ease and security , may lie down , if we can do that , in sorrow and anguish , and the most doleful dejection of mind . thus it was with the fool in the gospel , that when he sung a requiem to himself , soul , take thine ease , &c. met with a terrible conclusion and disappointment when god said unto him , thou fool , this night shall thy soul be requir'd of thee : then whose shall those things be which thou hast provided ? the prospect of which is sufficient to make the best and most prosperous condition in the world uneasy , since we must either want , or enjoy with fear ; and next to the total deprivation of the comforts of this life , nothing is more intolerable than the fear of losing them . now what sad reflections are these ? how miserable must be the state of mankind , if this be all that a man has to enjoy , all that he has to comfort him in the enjoyment ? when he has thus the disturbance of the ocean , but not the confinement of it ; nor can it be said of any miseries he is incident unto , as it is of that , hitherto shall they come , and no further . but is there no relief in this case ? nothing better to be expected ? yes , saith our apostle , there remaineth a rest to the people of god. there is such a state , but it remaineth , it is in reserve for such as do believe , desire , and endeavour after it . this was the temper and condition of the patriarchs of old , they lived and died in the faith of this , they saw the promises afar off , and were persuaded of them , and embraced them ; and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth — but desired a better country , that is , an heavenly , as the apostle shews . here alone is that rest , which is god's ; in whose presence is fulness of joy , and at whose right hand there are pleasures for evermore . where the happy souls shall hunger no more , neither thirst any more , and that all tears shall be wiped from their eyes . neither can they die any more , for they are equal , and like unto the angels . this is the city of god , the heavenly jerusalem , where are myriads and ten thousands , and an innumerable company of angels , , and the spirits of just men made perfect . here alone is satisfaction , stability and certainty ; this is the time when all the troubles of this life shall close in the happiness of another ; where there will be no infirmities , no necessities , no appetites or irregular passions , no divisions or enmities , no seducers or temptations , no fraud or circumvention , no prejudice or suspicions , nothing that is evil , but all harmonious , equal and delightful . and of which we may say all this and more ; more indeed it is than we can say or describe : so the apostle , it doth not yet appear what we shall be : but we know that when he shall appear , we shall be like him ; for we shall see him as he is . is there now such a state , such a rest to be had ? is there a possibility , a certainty of obtaining it ? may we who are here as it were upon a wide ocean , continually tossed by the furious winds and boisterous waves , and in danger every moment to be swallowed up by them , may we arrive to a harbour of rest and safety , and have a star and pilot , and an unerring compass to guide and direct us ? and shall we be as the israelites , unbelieving and obstinate , that despised the pleasant land , and would rather be returning to egypt , and there feed upon garlick and onions , than venture forward to take possession of that , where they should not lack any thing . o how much doth unbelief blind the minds of men ! how much doth the love of this world , and the poor enjoyments of it , infatuate them ! that when they are hurried from one misery to another , and can hardly look out but they see objects sufficient to terrify them , and have the reliques of many a miserable shipwreck floating in their view , and are equally expos'd to the same dangers ; yet chuse rather to run the hazard of being miserable , and eternally miserable , than to hearken to the voice of god , and observe those measures that will infallibly direct , and bring them in the conclusion to a place of safety and undisturbed repose . surely we cannot but perceive , and our own experience will convince us , that this world is not a rest ; that man is born unto trouble as the sparks fly upward . we cannot but observe ( how hood-wink'd soever we are in other matters ) that in a few days , after many other changes , and a course and succession of other miseries ; that the last enemy of this world , death , will seize upon us , and carry us out of it . we cannot but think , that though the spark of an animal life be extinguished , and we are then dead to all the enjoyments of this present state ; yet that our souls which thus think , are immortal , and never die . we cannot but think , that as the spirit within us is immortal , so there is a state suitable to such a spirit ; another world that it must live in , and doth upon its separation pass into . we cannot but think that the future state is a state of recompence , and that we are therein accountable , and shall be determined to happiness or misery according to what we have done in the body . we cannot but think , that however it fares with good men here , how deplorable soever their present condition may be , yet that it shall at last be well with them that fear god ; and that their light afflictions , their temptations , and mortifications , which are but for a moment , shall work out for them a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . lastly , we cannot but think , that as this is a desirable state in it self , so that the thought and wish of balaam will be ( if it is not now ) the thought and wish of the worst of men ; let me die the death of the righteous , and let my last end be like his ; that is , the beginning of a glorious and happy eternity . where is now the misery , the hunger and nakedness , the pain and anguish , the poverty and contempt of the once wretched lazarus ? where are the tryals of the cruel mockings and scourgings , of bonds and imprisonment of those , of whom the world was not worthy ? where are the pilgrims and strangers that once wandred about , being destitute , afflicted and tormented ? where is the right hand which was cut off , the right eye that was plucked out , the body that was buffered and kept under , and brought into subjection ? where is the strait gate and narrow way , the conflicts and strivings of the self-denying christian ? where are the laboricus studies , the cares and prayers of the pious and industrious teacher ? where the ministry he has fulfill'd and made proof of in his preaching , reproving and exhorting with all long-suffering and doctrine ? behold them in their crowns and rewards , in their glories and triumphs , in the peace and comfort , the perfection and happiness of heaven . behold there abraham , isaac , and jacob , and all the prophets in the kingdom of god. behold there the pious lazarus in the bosom of abraham . behold there the wise and faithful teachers , shining as the brightness of the firmament ; and those that turn many unto righteousness , as the stars for ever and ever . it is god's rest , who is his own happiness , and can alone be the happiness of all out of himself : and there it is that we shall be replenished with the like goodness and love , in our proportion , as fills the breast of god himself . there we shall converse with nothing but perfection ; and have our souls so employed in acts suitable to the exalted and divine powers they shall be endued with , that they shall not only be unwearied , but infinitely satisfied in it . where our rest shall be the same , and our will and desire one with his , who filleth all in all . a consideration from the beginning to the end of it , that should excite all the powers of our souls to obtain it ; and that should make us extreamly cautious , lest we fail in our advances and travels towards it . let us fear , saith the apostle , lest a promise being left us of entring into his rest , any of you should come short of it . . it is a rest which is promised , and so is a farther argument to caution , lest we come short of it . we have the advantage of the heathen , and of a mere state of nature , that we have the revelation of the gospel , by which life and immortality were brought to light . and this revelation comes with the greater advantage , as we have the promise of god to ensure it to us : a favour as well beyond our comprehension , as our discovery and desert . for how could we who have defaced the divine image , and been rebels against god , and have forfeited his favour , think of being restored to it ? how could we whose souls are d●praved and corrupted , think of being admitted to that state , whereinto no unclean thing can enter ? how could we that are corruptible , think that we should put on incorruption ? and so must conclude , that we are no more fit for that state of holiness and perfection , of fellowship with god and the enjoyment of him , than we are like unto him . but when we are prevented in our thoughts , and these arguings are fore-clos'd by the divine goodness and faithfulness , by a revelation and a promise : if we in the conclusion prove like those in the parable , that when invited to a royal entertainment , make light of it , and go away , and reject the counsel of god against our selves ; shall we fare better than they , against whom the king sent forth his armies and destroyed them , and burnt up their city ? it was the aggravation of the sin of the israelites when they enter'd the land of promise , and had a land prepared for them , where they had goodly cities which they builded not , and houses full of all good things which they filled not , vineyards and olive-trees which they planted not ; that they tempted and provoked the most high god , and kept not his testimonies . and will it not aggravate our guilt , when we have a revelation as clear as the day , and the promise of god for our security , which is as sure as the ordinances of heaven ; nay , that is established upon a better and more lasting foundation ? for heaven and earth may pass away , but this word shall not pass away . behold then here the greatest testimony of the divine benignity and honour , the treasure of heaven laid open to our view . behold god himself proffering salvation to sinners , and engaging himself by promise to bestow it upon us on our acceptance . and what can we plead in our own defence , if at last we shall fall short of it ? for can we have any thing more clearly revealed to us , that is not in our view ; and which we are not capable , by reason of the imperfection of our natures , perfectly to understand ? can we have any thing more secured , which we have not in present possession ? can we have any thing more confirmed , than god bearing witness to the truth of it , with signs and wonders , and divers miracles ? and can any thing be of greater consequence than the things that are thus revealed , promised and secured ? and when a promise is thus left us of entring into his rest , shall not we fear , lest we come short of it ? especially . when there is a possibility on our part of coming short of it . i say a possibility on our part : for there is nothing wanting on god's , who is not as man that he should lie , nor the son of man that he should repent . hath he said , and shall he not do it ? hath he spoken , and shall he not make it good ? but yet notwithstanding the amplitude , the fulness and firmness of the promise , there is a suspension of it , nor will it operate without the conditions belonging to us to perform , without which we are in the same state of darkness and misery , as if there had been no revelation nor promise . and when it thus rests on our part , and nothing is wanting to compleat our happiness , but our own consent , could we in reason wish or desire any thing more , when it will be at our own choice and refusal , whether we will be happy or miserable ; whether we will be saved or damned ? and yet alas ! here is the difficulty ; the difficulty is to win us over to our own interest ; and all the arguments and considerations of the gospel are to dispose us hereunto , to be willing and desirous of being saved . and all in the conclusion prove generally too little ; for we remain stupid and sensless as if we were not at all concerned whether we obtain or fall short of this rest. we are as the israelites upon the borders of canaan , a few days would have let them into the possession of the promised land ; it was to be seen from the top of the mountain ; but they believed not the report of caleb and joshua , and murmur'd ; so of six hundred thousand men that came out of egypt , only those two entred into that land. and we are upon the borders of the promis'd rest , we have a prospect of it ; we have the gospel preach'd unto us , we have our education in the church of christ , and are members of his body , are call'd by his name ; have eaten and drank in his presence ; but how sad and miserable will our state be , if at the last we shall meet with , i know you not , depart from me ? and yet as near as we are to heaven , in profession and faith , in appearance and expectation , it is possible and without an extraordinary caution , it is certain , that notwithstanding the promise of god , we may come short of this rest. thus our saviour represents it , luk. . . strive to enter in at the strait gate , for many i say unto you will seek to enter in , and shall not be able . shall i now need any farther arguments than what the text affords , to make us cautious left we come short of this rest ? shall i need to press the apostle's exhortation any further ? need we to be advised in this matter , in a matter of so great importance and absolute necessity ? let us , beloved , look within our selves , and try whether our condition be so safe as to be above all hazard ; that we are arriv'd to a full satisfaction of mind concerning our title to this rest. i would that every one that hears me at this time , and that we all were in the state of st. paul , and were arriv'd to that setled and happy temper of soul , as to be able to say , that to me to live is christ , and to die is gain . and , i have fought a good sight , i have kept the faith , henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness , which the lord shall give me at that day . i could wish that we were out of the reach of all temptations , troubles and dangers , and that there was no need for us to fear , nor occasion to exhort us to it . but what should i wish for that which belongs not to the state in which we are ? that is a rest which remaineth , it is the rest of heaven , that is god's rest. it rather becomes me to return to the apostle , to exhort and repeat , and exhort again : take heed brethren , saith he , lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief , in departing from the living god. let us labour to enter into that rest . and in the text , let us therefore fear , lest a promise being left us of entring into his rest , any of you should come short of it . thus far have i consider'd the text ; and am certain that if our deceased friend were to speak to you of this auditory , who were so lately his : he that is now gone to his rest , would exhort you after the apostle's manner , to caution and fear , left having such a promise , any of you should come short of it . it was in st. paul's phrase , his heart's desire and prayer to god , that ye might be saved . this was the theme and subject he continually insisted upon , and made it his restless endeavour to promote . this he taught in this pulpit ; and this he again taught out of it , and confirmed by the regularity of his life . of whom i have many things to say , and might speak of him in his secular capacity , as to his friendship , in which he was sincere , intire and stedfast ; as to his conversation , in which he was free , without levity ; grave without moroseness , instructive without imposition ; and not without such a competency of skill , even in matters relating to this present life , as did render him useful to others , and capable of advising them that wanted it . i might speak of him as to the government of himself in his exact temperance and sobriety ; as to his family , in his affectionate tenderness as a husband and a father , and in the care he took of the meanest of those that were about him , and the exercises of family-devotion . but that which i at this time shall principally respect , is the discharge of his ministerial office , in which he took a special delight , and made it the principal business of his life , laying hold of all opportunities of doing good in private and in publick . in publick , how constant and diligent , useful and practical was he in preaching ! preaching with that plainness as might be suitable to the meanest capacity , and designed to the most useful purposes of sound doctrine , and unblameable life ; preaching as one that was in earnest himself , and endeavouring to persuade others so to be . what care did he , again , take to instruct the youth ! what pains in the little school that by his industry , and the pious contribution of well-disposed persons was erected in the neighbourhood ! which i hope will not die with him , but by the same or like good and charitable hands be supported and continued . in private , how many did he lend his helping hand to , encouraging them in the way of religion , resolving their doubts , comforting them in their sorrows , directing their endeavours ! and this he did with sweetness and tenderness , giving an easie access and admittance even to the meanest , and hearing them with patience . and in the mean time , whil'st like a good samaritan he was pouring oyl into the wounds of others , and administring such seasonable reliefs as their case did require , he himself shewed by the cheerfulness and liveliness of his spirit , that religion was no sadning or uncomfortable state ; but that however it might appear to drooping and melancholly minds , whatever it might appear to such as looked but little into it , or had little or no experience of it ; it was indeed the most comfortable state in the world to those that were intimately acquainted with it . to this let me add the care he took of the sick , visiting them with great application , sparing no pains to prepare such for another state ; of which his last sickness and the occasion of his death was too deplorable an instance , that whil'st thus exceeding solicitous about others ; he was careless of himself ; and whil'st the dying patient receiv'd spiritual consolation from him , he in all probability drew what proved a mortal infection to himself . which brings me to his last hours : it pleased god to give him some premonitions and warnings of his approaching end ; i mean not only by the dangerous disease he laboured under the former part of the year ; but also by such impressions upon his mind as seem'd to carry in them the finger of god. so that for some months past he would be often speaking , and i may say , preaching to his wise submission to the will of god , if he should think fit to take him out of this life to a better . for this reason , it may well be supposed that he was very desirous to see some of his relations that lived remote from hence ; and though newly come from one journey , immediately made another to pay them a visit ( where he had not been for some years ) or rather , as he told them , to take his last farewell . and accordingly he set his house and affairs in order , made his will ; and if i may take notice of so small a matter , among the greater , he composed his own epitaph ; which though plain ( as he intended ) is very expressive of his piety , and of the care he took of the people committed to his charge . and then it was no wonder when all this was done , to find him composed at his approaching end , and to behave himself as he had lived ; shewing an excellent temper of mind , heartily resigning himself up through jesus christ to god , the father of spirits , and the father of mercies ; whom in that condition he entirely depended upon , and found the greatest , i may say the only supports from . with what submission did he receive the sentence of his dissolution ! with what transport and joy did he speak of our blessed saviour , and the happiness he hoped for , or rather doubted not to be made partaker of , by him ! with what tenderness did he bewail our differences , and that spirit of censuring , reviling and dividing , that so much prevails ; and especially when after all , such must come ( if ever they be happy ) to joyn in the church-triumphant with those whom , too often , they refuse to converse and communicate with here , in the church-militant ! with what comfort did he take leave of his friends , of his wife and children , calling them one by one in his last interval to him , and giving each of them such advice as a dying friend , husband and father , and a dying christian , would give to those whom he affectionately loved ! and now what is the issue of all this , but that we should reflect upon it , and reflect upon our selves ? who of you that heard the last sermon of our deceased friend six days ago , but if you had known it should have been the last , would have hearkned to it with another sort of attention ! you would then have entertained it as the last words of a dying man. it was observed , that though he always spoke with an affectionate warmth , that he then spoke beyond himself , with a concernment more than ordinary ; as if he were sensible it should be his valedictory , and the last sermon , and that the last opportunity he should have of preaching to this people . it was the last indeed ; but we read of abel , that by his faith , he being dead , yet speaketh . our friend is dead , his body lies there before us ; he has no tongue to speak , nor eye to observe how you receive his doctrine ; but he yet speaketh to you in his doctrine and example ; and i hope , as it was said of abel , he shall for that reason be yet spoken of , amongst you . and oh that his words were written , not with ink , but ( as st. paul saith ) with the spirit of the living god , in your hearts and lives , to be known and read of all men : or howsoever that last sermon or other discourses of his may have been neglected or forgot ; let us remember the caution which the apostle here advises all to take ; and fear , lest a promise being left us of entring into this rest , any of us should come short of it . finis . errat . page . line . after storm read of persecution . some books printed , and sold by h. walwyn at the three legs in the poultrey , against stocks-market . the works of the late learned divine stephen charnock , in two volumes , folio . geography rectifi'd , or a description of the world , in all its kingdoms , provinces , countries , &c. illustrated with maps . the d edition : by robert morden , quarto . sermons on several occasions , by john conant , d.d. publish'd by john lord bishop of chichester , octavo . tillotson 's sermons , octavo . horneck 's sermons , octavo . — great law of consideration , octavo . gibson's anatomy of human bodies . bishop wilkins of the gift of prayer . drexelius of eternity , twelves . posing of the parts . eutropius's roman history , in usum scholar●●● . helvicus's colloquies . english exercises for school-boys to translate into latin , comprizing all the rules of grammar , and other necessary observations , ascending gradually from the meanest to higher capacities : by john garretson , schoolmaster . the th edition , twelves . gradus ad parnassum , sive nov●s synonymorum epithetorum phrasium , &c. ab uno è societate jesu . a brief exposition of the church-catechism , with proofs from scripture : by john lord bishop of chichester , late rector of st. mildred's poultrey , and st. mary cole , london . printed for h. walwyn at the three legs in the poultrey , against stocks-market . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e hebr. . . . . ch. . , &c. ch. . . ch . . . . . . v. , . v. , . v. . d. ham. in cap. , & . revel . . . deut. . . tim. . . chap. . , . joh . . cor. . . chap. . . ver. . luk. . . compared with mat . , &c. luk. . . job . . hebr. . . psal. . . rev. . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . luk. . . heb. . . joh. ● . ● . psal. . . numb . . . deut. . . job . . eccles. . . cor. . . numb . . luk. . . heb. . , &c. mat. . . cor. . . tim. . . luk. . . dan. . . ephes. ▪ . rev. . . mat. . . ●● . luk. ● . . exod. . . deut. , , . psal. , . mat. . . heb. . . num. . . numb . . , , , . num. . . mat. . . mat. . . phil. . . tim. , . rom. . ● . hebr. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so the margin . cor. . . the difference of the case, between the separation of protestants from the church of rome, and the separation of dissenters from the church of england approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the difference of the case, between the separation of protestants from the church of rome, and the separation of dissenters from the church of england clagett, william, - . williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for thomas basset ... and fincham gardiner ..., london : . written by w. clagett. cf. dnb; nuc pre- ; halkett & laing ( nd ed.). also attributed to john williams. cf. halkett & laing ( nd ed.). errata: p. . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england. dissenters, religious -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the difference of the case , between the separation of protestants from the church of rome , and the separation of dissenters from the church of england . london , printed for thomas basset at the george in fleetstreet , and fincham gardiner at the white horse in ludgate-street . . the difference of the case , between the separation of protestants from the church of rome , and the separation of dissenters from the church of england . since the happy reformation of this church , they of the romish perswasion have with their utmost art insinuated , that our reformation proceeded upon principles destructive of all order and government in the church ; and that it naturally tends to endless separations . to this end they have laid hold upon that advantage which the divisions amongst protestants have offered them , and said that the reasons upon which we ground our separation from the church of rome will hold to justify the separation of the dissenters from the church of england . and the truth is some of the dissenters have been so indiscreet , to say no more , as to alledge the same thing . and i am very sorry that men of the same perswasion with us in opposition to the impious errors and practices of the roman church , should give so much countenance to that grievous charge upon the reformation , as some of them have done . the papists are too much beholden to them for giving the occasion of this accusation : but to joyn with them in the same charge , is too great a kindness in all reason , and indeed destructive of the common cause of the reformation , by insinuating one of these two things , either that there was no reason for this separation on either part ; or else that notwithstanding our pretended reformation , we are still as bad as the church of rome ; for otherwise they cannot have the same reason to separate from us , that we had at first to separate from that church . i shall endeavour with gods help to shew in a short and plain discourse upon this subject , that the cases are vastly different ; and that we have very good reasons wherewith to justify our separation from the church of rome ; and that the dissenters who forsake our communion cannot by any good consequence from those reasons , warrant their separation from our church . in this attempt , i am sensible that i have adversaries on both sides ; and that it often happens to be a nice and hazardous business to determine between two extremes . but i hope there is no reason to apprehend great danger in this case ; since it is the same false charge against the reformation , in which these extreme parties agree ; and it is of that nature , that 't is all one whether i confute it against the papists , or against the protestant separatists , for if it be disproved against one , 't is shewn to be unjust in both . this is our case , that as we charge those of the separation from our church with schism , so do the romanists charge us of the church of england with schism too : but with this difference , as we pretend , that we have good reason for that , so have not they for this . for schism is a causeless separation from a church . and we think we may appeal to all disinteressed and judicious christians , that we have shewn our separation from rome to be grounded upon just and necessary causes ; but that the dissenters have shewn none such for their separation from us . and when all is done it should not incline any man to think that the truth is either with the romanist or with the dissenter , because the charge of schism is laid by the romanist against us , and by us against the separtist with equal confidence , unless he sees withal that it is laid with equal justice . for it was not indeed to be expected , but that when some protestants demanding a farther reformation , separated from our church , this pretence would soon after be set on foot both by those of the church of rome , and by those of the separation . it lay fair for them both , and right or wrong was likely to be taken up by both ; since it would serve exceedingly well to help a bad cause and to give popular colours to the weak arguments , both of the one and of the other side . the romanist was not likely to forego such an advantage as the separation of our dissenters gave him , to disgrace the reformation amongst those that loved unity . nor was the separatist likely to omit that advantage , which our reformation gave him , to commend his separation from us under the notion of a farther separation from rome , to those that abhorred popery . and therefore it will stand all discreet persons in hand to weigh the merits of the cause on both sides , and not to admit any prejudice against our communion in favour either of the papist or the sectary , meerly because they both say that in justifying our separation from the papist , we vindicate the separation of the sectary from our selves . i must not in this narrow compass pretend to enter upon a discussion of the several questions controverted between us and our adversaries on both sides : but shall take it for granted , that what has been said in answer to the several objections of the dissenters against our communion has been well argued against them : and likewise that in charging the church of rome with those several corruptions in doctrine and practice , which have made her communion intolerable , we have said upon each point no more than what has been well proved against that church ; and which upon all fit occasions , we shall , by the grace of god , be ready to make good again . but my principal design is to shew that there is no manner of inconsistence in the way we take to vindicate our selves from schism charged upon us by the church of rome , with those principles upon which we accuse our dissenting brethren of that fault , who separate from the church of england : and that the romanist cannot take our arguments against the separation of the dissenters , to condemn our reformation ; nor the separatist our reasons against the communion of the romanist , to acquit himself in forsaking the communion of our church . this i conceive will be made to appear . . by laying down the reasons on both sides ; those by which we pretend to justify our separation from the church of rome ; and those upon which the dissenters lay the stress of their separation from us . . by comparing them together , that we may judg wherein and how far these cases agree with , or differ from one another . in laying down the reasons on both sides , i shall begin with the grounds upon which this church separated from the church of rome ; and then proceed to those upon which the dissenters separate from us . . to the church of rome charging us with schism we answer in general : that our separation from her was necessary by reason of those corruptions in her communion , which we could not comply with against the conviction of our consciences . more particularly we say , that this church of england had no dependence upon the authority of the church of rome , which she might not lawfully throw off , and that she does not owe any subjection to the bishop of rome , but had just power without asking his leave , or staying for his consent , to reform her self . and withal that the church of rome ought to have reformed her self , as we have done , since there were most necessary causes for so doing ; the communion of that church being defiled with the profession of those damnable errors , and the practice of those superstitions and idolatries which we have done away . to this purpose we challenge those of that communion with the particulars of their doctrine of transubstantiation , their sacrifice of the mass , their service in an unknown tongue , their half communion , their worship of images , their adoration of the host , and the rest of those abominations , whereof the communion of that church doth in great part consist . we acknowledge that we separated from them in these things , when we reformed our selves ; but in so doing we were not guilty of schism from the church of rome , and that if nothing else were to be said , because this church owes no subjection to that : but withal that the causes of the reformation being so necessary as we pretend them to be , the separation of communion that ensued upon our being , and their hating to be reformed , was on our side just and necessary upon that account also , and therefore not schismatical . so that our answer is twofold . . that the church of england being by no kind of right , subject to the roman , or any forreign bishop , had full power and authority without asking leave of forreigners to reform her self . and this we say would have cleared her from the imputation of schism , if the causes of the reformation had not been so necessary as indeed they were . if before the reformation there had been no unlawful conditions of communion required in the western churches , and all the fault that could have been found in them , had amounted to no more than bare inconveniences and imprudence in the manner of their discipline , or in ordering the outward mode of worship ; it had yet been free for the church of england to have reformed those lesser faults within her self , though no other church would have done the like . and though for such defects remaining in other churches abroad she ought not to have separated from their communion ; yet she might very justly and commendably free her self from them at home . but if a forreign church suppose that of rome , should hereupon have abstained from the communion of this church , till we had returned to the former inconvenient , though lawful rites , and customs , that forreign church had been guilty of schism in so doing . and if the church of england not willing to part with her liberty and to prostitute her authority to the usurpation of the see of rome , should have adher'd to her own reformation , she had not been guilty of the breach of communion , following that her resolution ; because she had done nothing , but what was within the compass of her just power to do , and in which she was not liable to be controuled by any other church . we say with st. cyprian , that the episcopal government of the church ought to be but one , spread abroad amongst bishops , many in number , but heartily agreeing together . but with the same excellent man we say too , that it is equal that every one of them should have a part of the flock assigned to him , which he is to govern , remembring that he is to give an account of his management to god. which he said , in asserting the freedom of the african churches from subjection to the roman . this we think is justly applicable to our case . the church of england is a national church , once indeed under the usurpation of the roman bishop , and at length rescued from that servitude ; we are at present united together by common rules for government and worship , consulted upon and agreed unto by the bishops and presbyters in convocation , and then made laws to all the particular churches of this kingdom , by the authority of the soveraign . these laws shew the reformation of the church ; and they do not want any authority they ought to have , for wanting the consent of the roman bishop , upon whom we have neither ecclesiastical nor civil dependence . for if any one single bishop of the african church might determin causes , and judge matters of ecclesiastical cognisance ( which yet was seldom done in things of moment without the advice of collegues when the church had rest from persecution ) and this without allowing appeals to rome ; much more may the bishops of a whose christian kingdom confederate together to order church matters independently upon the see of rome , especially being required thereunto by their christian soveraign to whom they all owe subjection and obedience in all things , saving their common christianity . so that if the causes of the reformation had not been so weighty as indeed they were , yet considering the authority by which it was effected ; our separation from rome thereupon ensuing was wholly guiltless on our part , it being necessary unless we would submit to the unjust and tyrannous claims of a forreign bishop . . to the charge of schism laid against us by the romanist , we answer also , that the conditions of communion required in the roman church , were many of them vnlawful to be submitted unto ; since we could not communicate with her without professing doctrines that are plainly contrary to gods word , nor without doing several things that are clearly and particularly forbidden by it . and since it is not in the power of any man or church , to dispense with our obligations to the laws of god , we could not be obliged to preserve communion with the bishop of rome and his adherents , upon those terms . but because catholick communion ought to be preserved , they ought to have put away those scandals from amongst themselves , which since they have not done , though the separation is equal on both sides , yet the schism is not ours but theirs only . and therefore we farther say that if the corruptions of the roman church ( which god forbid ) should ever come to be establisht in this church of england again by the same authority that has abolisht them ; it were not only lawful , but a necessary duty to separate from the communion of this church in that case . we have that reverence of church authority , and of the supreme magistrate , that we will submit to their determinations in all things wherein god has left us to our own liberty . but if they command us to do things contrary to his determination , and to take that liberty which he has not given us , we must remember that we are to obey god rather than man. we have that sense also of the mischief of divisions and separations , and of the duty of maintaining church-communion , that if the laws of god be but observed , we are not only ready to comply with what our own superiours impose upon us , for the sake of peace and unity at home ; but if we were to go abroad , we should observe the customs of other churches , though perhaps very different from ours , and this for the sake of maintaining one communion of christians every were . but neither abroad , nor at home can we purchase unity of communion at so dear a rate as to break gods commandments for it . we know it is a good thing for all the parts of the church to have but one communion , but we must not do evil , that even this good may come : and least of all that evil which church communion and church authority were in great part designed to prevent . for as we believe that christ formed his disciples into a spiritual society , so we have great reason to conclude that one main end hereof was , that by the communion of christians under their governours , the holy truths and laws of god concerning his worship and our salvation might be more advantageously held forth to the world , and more effectually guarded and maintained . and therefore to keep this communion one as much as in us lies , we will do any thing required by our superiors that god has left us free to do or not : but to deny that holy truth or any part of it , or to break any of those divine laws , for the sake of which this communion it self was instituted , neither of these things dare we do to prevent divisions and separations . and we are as sure that transubstantiation , adoration of the host , worshiping of images , praying to the dead and praying in an unknown tongue , are repugnant to several express texts of scripture , not to say to common sense and reason : we are i say as sure that they are the plain laws and truths of god to which these things are contrary ; and withal that to guard these truths god instituted a church , and a communion of saints , as we are that there was any such thing as a church instituted , or church communion required . and truly if separation , when there is such cause for it , as we pretend , were not a necessary duty , it might becom the duty of christians to be united in scandalous impieties and damnable errors . and i think no body will say that in such things one communion is either to be desired or excused , but rather to be broken , and that every man is concerned as much as his salvation is worth to break away from it . and we are certain it can never be necessary to any mans salvation to be a schismatick . upon this account , we say , that they who in queen mary's days chose to lay down their lives , rather than return to the communion of the roman church , were so far from being schismaticks that they were gods martyrs in so doing . and had it been , or should it be our lot to have this choice so hard to flesh and blood offered to us ; we trust , that through the mighty grace of god , we should follow the faith and patience of those holy men and women , who sealed this cause with their blood , meekly suffering under the displeasure of that just authority , the unjust commands whereof they could not honestly obey . this plain , though general account , we give of the separation of the church of england from the church of rome . and if we pretend no more in our own defence against that church , than we can prove , we have reason to think our selves safe on that side . . let us now see upon what principles and by what pleas the dissenters defend their separation from the church of england . to us therefore charging them with schism upon this account , they answer also , that our communion is corrupt , and that they cannot with a safe conscience continue in it ; and that they are bound for greater purity of worship and ordinances , to divide from us . but in making out this general answer they do not all go the same way , nor do some of them allow those to be good reasons for a separation , which others think substantial enough . that in which most of them do agree is in assigning some ceremonies injoined in our church , concerning which some of them say that they are unlawful to be used in gods worship ; others of them , that there is great cause to doubt whether they be lawful or not ; and these dare not join in our communion with scrupulous and unsatisfied minds . the things of this sort are the sign of the cross in the office of baptism , ( though this be made by the minister only ) kneeling in the act of receiving the eucharist , and the ministers wearing a surplice in publick worship . the other faults they find with the liturgy , however they are thought by the generality of dissenters to be a reason sufficient to ground separation upon , are not i think produced by those that should best understand the cause , as amounting to make our communion directly unlawful . but yet there are that say , they ought not to prefer a worse mode of serving god before a better : and the mode which themselves observe being better they are to prefer that before ours , and therefore to separate from us for the most part . others go yet further from us , and take liturgies , and prescribed forms of prayer to be unlawful to be used , or at least suspect them so to be . and all these do generally dislike the form of diocesan episcopacy : however they seem not to lay the stress of their separation upon that , since they acknowledge our churches to be true churches of christ , and if it were not for other things , might be lawfully communicated with , although they are governed by bishops . and because the civil authority concurs with the ecclesiastical in requiring conformity to our church laws , they do not pretend those laws to be enforced by an authority to which they are not bound to submit . and therefore as far as i can find they rather chuse to justify their separation upon the account of the unlawfulness , or suspected unlawfulness of the things imposed , or upon the preference of a better communion then ours is . but out of these i must except the independents who acknowledge no other church to be agreeable to the word of god , but such a company of christian people united one to another by a particular covenant under officers of their own chusing , as can at once assemble in the same place for the worship of god. and these men think the very constitution of our church to be reason enough for a separation from it . i will take notice of no other dissenters at present , but those that separate upon some one , or more of these grounds ; which may be reduced to three . . that a national church authority , is an usurpation upon particular congregations , which are pretended to be the only churches of christs institution , and that every such church has full power in it self to order all things relating to worship and discipline , and is not of right accountable to any other authority for the order it shall take to govern it self in these things ; and therefore the independents , as i said , think themselves clear of the guilt of schism as having separated from a church which is not of christs institution . for they take an independent congregation only , to be such . but yet these are willing to come in with the other dissenters for their interest in the next ground of separation , upon which all of them , as far as i can judge , hope to find the surest footing ; and that is , . that the conditions of our communion , those namely before mentioned , are not lawful for a christian to submit unto . and here i include those that do but scruple the lawfulness of those things which are injoined in our church . for they that say positively they are unlawful , and they that but suspect them to be unlawful , produce the same arguments , the former to justify their peremptoriness , the latter their scruples . the reasons i say upon which they go are the same , only they work up some of them to a greater height of confidence then others are come to ; and some again they leave altogether doubtful what to say , whether to conclude for us or against us . they agree in blaming our church for requiring things to be done in gods worship which he has not commanded , some also of which have been and still are done by papists in their idolatrous services , from whom we ought to depart in all things that are not necessary to be done . upon these grounds some pretend to be sure , others to be afraid that to suffer their children to be signed with the sign of the cross , to kneel at the communion , to be present at divine service where a surplice is worn , and to submit to liturgies and prescribed forms of worship , are unlawful . and these reasons i find owned in the case of indifferent things used in gods worship , stated on the behalf of dissenters , just now published . for thus that author declares in their behalf , we cannot , saith he , conceive it possible that in things of divine worship , things of an indifferent nature should be the just matter of any human determination , farther than the particular practice of the person determining . and again , where in matters of worship god hath wrote ors , whether by his pen in sacred writing or by his not prescribing the particular circumstances , no man can blot them out ; though themselves may as to their own practice , for this or that time or act , where they cannot use more than one of those postures or circumstances . that is ; where god hath left men at their liberty to do this , or that , they may determin themselves , but no human authority may determin for them . farther , as to things in gods worship not determined by god , they judge every man is sui juris and ought to be determined by god alone to this , or that ; i. e. he can be obliged to this or that part by god only . and he says plainly that , most of them are confident that in matters of worship no superiors may restrain what god hath left at liberty . in pursuance of this general principle he says , some posture in an human action being necessary , and none by god determined in every act of worship ; where there is no determination , they believe themselves at liberty , and think they ought not to be determined by any thing but their own practical judgment , according to present circumstances : it is a liberty with which god hath made them free . again , he acknowledges that they judge it vunlawful to obey laws concerning words in prayer which god hath left at liberty , and concerning habits and gestures , supposing them to be left at liberty , and that none who is to use them verily judgeth them vnlawful . and he intimates more then once that things not necessary , and ordinarily used in idolatrous and superstitious services may not , in their judgment , be lawfully used : how well he has proved these positions i am not concerned to examine ; but leave him for that to his learned antagonist . these observations are particular enough for my purpose , which is to shew the difference between the ground of our separation from the roman church , and those of their separation from us whom this gentleman defends . . there are those who , for all this , seem not to think our communion unlawful in it self , since they can sometimes communicate with us in our whole service . but they judge the way of the separate meetings to be more perfect , and a better means of edification ; and the ground of their separation is this , that it is unlawful to communicate ordinarily in a more imperfect way of worship and enjoying the ordinances of the gospel , where a better may be had . . i come now to the second point which is to compare the grounds of separation on both sides together ; that we may judge wherein they differ or how far they agree . . i do acknowledge that the most general ground of all is the same on both sides , or at least may be so ; that is , that we separate from the church of rome , in a full perswasion of conscience , that so we ought to do ; and that the dissenters separate from the church of england with the like perswasion . but how far this agreement makes the case of separation the same on both sides ; and whether it will equally justify the the church of england's separating from rome , and the dissenters separating from the church of england , will be considered , time enough after all the other reasons are compared . . the next general reason on both sides alledged is , that separation was necessary for greater purity of worship and ordinances . we for greater purity separated from rome : the dissenters for greater purity separated from us . now whether this may or may not reasonably be pretended by the dissenters in their case , as well as by the church of england in hers , will best oppear when we have laid together the particulars exaepted against on both sides , by us with reference to the communion of the church of rome , by the dissenters , with reference to the communion of the church of england ; and have also considered the way of maintaining objections against the terms of communion with rome or england , that is peculiar to each side . but , . there is not the same plea offered to justify the separation in both cases with respect to that authority by which the conditions of communion are prescribed . for we of the church of england do unanimously deny that the bishop of rome hath any just authority to make rules for the communion , or to prescribe laws for the government of our church . but all the dissenters do not question the lawfulness of that authority by which our liturgy is establisht , and those things which they object against are required . for those of the presbyterian perswasion amongst us , however they dislike diocesan episcopacy , yet seem not to insist upon it in their late writings , as a ground of separation from this church ; but if other things were reformed according to their mind , they would submit to our bishops , and by their conformity contribute to uphold the order of this national church . but then the independents indeed must in consequence of their principles , deny that bishops singly or jointly , whether with the civil authority or without it , have any right to prescribe to their congregations in matters ecclesiastical , since in these things they hold their members to be accountable to no authority under god , but that of the congregation to which they belong . and now i shall compare the two cases of separation with respect to three things which will , i conceive , comprehend all the forementioned pleas on both sides ; that is with respect , . to authority . . to terms of communion , and under this head to the common pretence of separating for greater purity . . to the plea of conscience . . with respect to authority . we are divided from the church of rome as one particular constituted church from another , neither of which has any authority to prescribe to the other in matters ecclesiastical . and therefore as i said before , tho the terms of the communion of that church were not unlawful , yet if she would have no communion with us , unless we would be govern'd by her laws : and if our church governours should use their own liberty and authority to prescribe to us what they judged more sutable to the general rules of scripture and more conducible to the great ends of christianity : the separation ensuing upon that churches affecting an usurpation over us , could not be schismatical on our part , who are not the subjects of the bishop of rome : but upon the part of that church it would be so for her exercising an authority , where she has no right so to do . but the case of the dissenters is far otherwise , who separate from this national church in which they were born and baptized , and where they live . for by thus doing we say that they withdraw their obedience from their lawful governours ; from whom if they divide , especially if they set up a communion distinct from that of their superiors , and of the congregations under them , they are guilty of manifest schism , unless the terms of communion be unlawful . for it is by no means sufficient to clear them of this fault , that those things which fall within the compass of church authority are not well order'd ; because , although this were true , yet in these things their practice is to be determined by that authority . for we think it very evident that no society can be united and maintained without this principle , that a lawful authority is to be submitted unto and obeyed by inferiors in all lawful things , and that the mere imprudence or inexpedience of its determinations , cannot absolve them from their obligation to comply therewith . now that it is a lawful authority upon which the constitutions of this national church stands , i think no man can deny that will grant a national church it self to be but a lawful constitution . for there is the concurrence both of civil and ecclesiastical superiors to give them force . the bishops and presbyters first agreed upon the same rule and order for church government and worship , which being afterward approved by the lords and commons in parliament , was then made a law by the king. so that if the confederation of the particular churches of this kingdom to govern themselves and to serve god in religious assemblies , by the same rule , and according to the same term , can become the matter of a law obliging all christians amongst us to conformity ; here is no auhority wanting to induce such an obligation . and it is to be consider'd that every one who separates from that parochial congregation where he lives , and betakes himself to an opposite communion , had been guilty of schism in so doing , although the churches of this kingdom had not been united as they are into a national form ; but each bishop with his presbyters had made rules for religious assemblies independently upon the rest . but now the fault of such separation is heinously aggravated as the case stands by these two considerations . . that those orders or impositions upon the account whereof he separates from the parish where he lives , were made by the common advice of the pastors of christs flock in this kingdom ; and that for a common rule to them all : which method was a most proper means to unite their particular churches more closely one to another , and to edify and strengthen them by such union . therefore that separation which would have been blameable of it self , is so much the worse as it tends to break so profitable an union , and to expose the authority of so many church governours to contempt , as contributed towards it by their advice and consent . . that since the rules thus agreed upon are made laws also by the soveraign power ; such schism is aggravated farther by disobedience to the lawful commands of the civil authority under which we live , and to which all particular churches in this kingdom do owe obedience in all lawful things . and now i believe our presbyterian brethren will grant that upon these accounts there is a vast difference between the cases of separation from the church of england and from the church of rome in point of authority . but then i must confess the independents are likely enough to say , that these impositions are as truly usurpations upon particular congregations , as if they had been enforced upon this kingdom by a pretended authority from rome . and if there were no difference between saying and proving , we might here be at a considerable loss . however this must be granted , that an english bishop may have good authority to govern his diocess , and a presbyter his parish here in england ; and yet it may be foolish and unjust in a forreign bishop to claim any authority over the one or the other . and i hope they will not deny that the king has good authority here , though the pope has none ; nor that the laws of the land concerning religion and gods worship , do bind the consciences of the kings subjects something more , than if they had wanted the authority of the legislative power at home , and came to us from abroad with nothing but the seal of the fisherman to recommend them ; i. e. that in this latter case we might have refused them as wanting authority , but not so in the former ; but that the matter of them being supposed to be lawful , they ought to be complied with . and whereas the independents suppose the independency of their congregations to be of divine right , both in opposition to episcopal superiority , and to national church-government , this we must leave to the merits of the cause between them and us . and i may as well take it for granted , that their pretended right to independency has been as clearly argued of novelty and weakness , as the popes pretended right to supremacy has been ; argued i say of more novelty , and almost as much weakness . but to step a little out of the way of my present business ; i may appeal to all understanding persons , who cannot judge of the learning used on both sides ; whether that notion of a church or of church-communion is likely to be true , which makes it impossible for the particular churches of a christian kingdom to be united under the soveraign authority in the observation of the same rules advised upon , and the same laws made for the benefit of them all . in the mean time i conclude this head with saying , that though the pope has no authority in this kingdom , yet it follows not that every particular congregation must be independent . and i challenge any man to take any one argument used by any of our church to prove the independency of our church upon the bishop of rome , and make it hold to prove the independency of a congregation , either upon a national or episcopal church if he can . wherefore supposing the decrees of the bishop of rome to be of no good authority amongst us ; and our own laws in matters ecclesiastical to want no good authority , the conditions of communion being otherwise lawful on both sides ; then the separation ensuing upon our refusal to submit to those decrees , would not be schismatical on our part ; but the separation of our independents , and all others amongst us refusing to submit to these laws would be so on their part . and thus much for the difference in point of authority . . we are to compare the cases also with respect to the terms of communion relating to matters of faith and worship . and in the first place the dissenters acknowledge that the faith professed in this church is pure and intire , and that she does not require the profession of any doctrine in order to her communion , which a good christian has reason to suspect . and this makes a great difference between the terms of communion with our church , and the terms thereof with the church of rome , which requires the profession of gross and palpable errors , of all whom she admits to her communion . but the great ossence is taken at our forms of divine service , and the ceremonies thereunto belonging . and the offended parties are of three sorts . . those that do not directly charge any of our practices in worship as sinful , but suppose some of them to be inexpedient and vnedifying : and they that separate upon this account must acknowledge this difference in the case , that whereas we separating from rome forsook an unlawful communion for one that was lawful ; they separating from us forsake a lawful communion for one that they believe to be better . and of these i shall take notice again in a fitter place . . another sort are they who pretend something more , that is , that they scruple the lawfulness of the things enjoined , and that they ought not to communicate with us so long as they remain under these doubts . and these men also must confess a great difference between the reason upon which they separate from us , and that for which we separate from the church of rome : since we are past doubting in the case , and positively affirm those conditions of communion with the church of rome , which we complain of , to be in themselves unlawful . and in consequence hereof , they must not deny that there is a great difference also between those grounds upon which they and we pretend against that church the unlawfulness of her impositions , and those upon which they suspect the like of ours ; and that is , that the roman church is by us attacqued with clear and unquestionable evidence of reason and scripture against her ; but that it remains doubtful whether there be any good evidence in scripture against us ; concerning which more will be said under the next head . in the mean time it does by no means follow , that because separation is just and necessary , where some things are required to be done which we certainly know god has forbidden ; therefore it is just and necessary also where other things are required , concerning which we do not know but they may be lawful . . the third sort are they that pretend these forms of worship , and ceremonies , which the former either scruple , or judge only inexpedient , to be indeed sinful , and to render our communion not only suspected , and less desirable , but plainly vnlawful . and i grant that these are the men who come up to the point ; and if they could but make good what they say , they would shew their separation from our church to be grounded upon one general reason of our separation from the church of rome , which would sufficiently clear us from the imputation of schism , if no other reason were to be given . but i believe a very wide difference of the case will appear when we come to consider , . the particular practices themselves which are by us said to be unlawful in the communion of the roman church ; and those which by the dissenters are said to be unlawful in ours . and . the way and means by which we pretend to prove those , and that by which they pretend to prove these unlawful . . let us consider the particulars themselves . the dissenters do with us condemn as unlawful , prayers in an unknown tongue ; the adoration of the host ; worshipping the cross , and the like practices of the roman church in her forms of worship , from which they acknowledge also that we have purged our communion . but they say we have retained other practices something akin to these , though not quite so bad ; for instance kneeling at the communion ; wearing the surplice ; signing with the sign of the cross ; and some of them add , the publick use of forms of prayer . now all that i design under this head in comparing the former and the later particulars together , is to shew , that the unlawfulness of the former being supposed , the unlawfulness of the latter cannot be from thence inferr'd ; and that for this plain reason , because the questions concerning the one and the other , are perfectly distinct from one another . for as the bishop of rome's having no authority here in england , shall not hinder the authority which our bishops exercise in england from being lawful and good : so to pray in an unknown tongue may be absurd and contrary to scripture , but for all this forms of prayer in a language understood by the whole congregation , may not only be lawful but profitable , and in most cases necessary . the adoration of the host may be an idolatrous practise ; yet to kneel in the act of receiving the eucharist , where such adoration is disclaimed , shall be no such practise . we may sign the baptized , insant with the sign of the cross ; and yet not worship that sign : we may do the former in token of the obligation which baptism layeth upon us : without attributing any of that virtue or efficacy thereunto , which makes the popish use of it foolish and superstitious . what practice is there in the roman church which we as unlawful have abandoned , from whence the unlawfulness of wearing a surplice , or seeing it worn , can with any colour of reason be drawn ? in a word , what erroneous doctrine in the church of rome , or unlawful practice confess'd by the dissenters to be by us rejected , can be assign'd , from which the unlawfulness of any of those things excepted against in our liturgy can be inferr'd ? let them take any one argument used by us to prove such or such a particular condition of communion unlawful which that church requires , and by that argument prove some condition unlawful in ours , if they can . but perhaps they will say , that if they can prove this by other arguments , the case in general will still be the same . this i confess and therefore i proceed to the second point which was , . to shew the difference between the way and means by us used to prove those conditions of the roman communion vnlawful , which we except against ; and the manner of arguing used by the dissenters against us . now our way is plain and direct ; for we prove those particulars in the roman worship unlawful which we condemn , by this argument that they are forbidden in gods word , and this we prove by those express and particular places of holy scripture to which they are repugnant . and if we fail not of producing such testimonies against the corruptions of that church , we have the advantage against the papists . and if the dissenters charge any condition of our communion with repugnancy to gods law , and can as clearly shew where he hath forbidden it , they have the like advantage against us . now indeed they say that the things imposed upon them , however weesteem them but indifferent , are by themselves judged unlawful . thus the forementioned author saith could they [ dissenters ] but look upon the forms and rites of our worship under that notion [ of things indifferent ] possibly their contest would neither be great nor long . i do not like these words , for that which may be may not be ; and possibly the contest would be great and long , though they should look upon these things as indifferent . however he saies , that we suppose those things indifferent which they cannot but judge vnlawful , as they have often told their brethren . but how do they prove them unlawful ? do they shew where god hath forbidden them ? as we , for instance , produce the second commandment to tshew that in that commandment god hath forbidden he worship of images , so do they ; or can they produce any such testimony of scripture against kneeling when we receive the eucharist ? and as we alledge , cor. against praying in an unknown tongue ; can they shew us any text in all the bible against praying by a form of words ? no ; this is not what they pretend to do . but then we are apt to conclude , that if these things be not forbidden , that they are at least indifferent , and therefore lawful . and which is something more , we have their leave also thus to conclude , seeing there is none of them but agreeth with us in our notion of indifferent things viz. that they are such things as by the divine law are neither enjoyned nor forbidden : things undertermined by the law of god in nature or scripture . how then do they prove those things unlawful to be done in gods worship , which god hath not forbidden either in the law of nature or scripture ? to make short work of it : those particulars in our communion which they except against , are unlawful , because they are not necessary to worship , nor commanded by any express law of god. which is as much as to say , that though they are indifferent because they are neither enjoyned nor forbidden by the law of god in nature or scripture ; yet they are not indifferent , and that because they are not enjoyned . so that whilst our brethren allow the determination of indifferent things to authority , they take away with one hand , what they give with the other . for according to their principles there is nothing left for authority to determin , as to the ordering of gods publick worship . for one would think that the matter of such determination should be those things , which god hath left to our liberty . but you are mistaken if you think so ; since for this very reason that they are left at liberty , it is unlawful for one man be his authority what it will , so long as it is but human authority , to determin in them for another ; and it is unlawful for this other man to submit to his determination . for we are told that the light of nature directeth us to use the most convenient circumstances for the worship of god , and the law of nature will enforce men in doing actions , to use time and place . for other things , such as the postures of prayer , or words used in prayer , the holy scripture is every where as sufficient to us as the law of moses was to the jews , which commanded as to the passover the offering a lamb or a kid , and left it to the discretion and conveniency of the offerer to determin which — . so for standing , sitting , or kneeling at prayer , god indeed hath left the one or the other of them to us not determined , leaving it to our choice or conveniency which to use , who sometimes cannot use standing , another time cannot use kneeling . he hath commanded us to pray , and that with our voice , as well as our hearts ; but that he hath not told us what words we should always use — . god hath therefore left us at liberty what words to use , as he left the jews at liberty whether to offer a lamb or a kid — and moses might by the same authority have tied up all the jews to offer none but kids , or none but lambs , as superiors can tye up inferiours to use none but such or such words in prayer . and the jews might every whit as lawfully have obeyed moses in such a command , as we can obey any superiors in such a case . that is , it had been vnlawful in the jews to have obeyed moses in such a case , and it would be vnlawful in the dissenters , and it is vnlawful in us to obey our superiors in any of their determinations concerning things in gods worship which god hath left at liberty . how this author hath pursued his argument , is not my business to consider . it is sufficient for my design to shew the vast difference between the grounds upon which we charge the church of rome with requiring unlawful terms of communion with her in her worship , and those upon which the same fault is imputed to the church of england by the dissenters . we prove our charge , by shewing , that god hath forbidden what that church requires to be done : they prove theirs against us by shewing that god hath left those things at liberty which are required in this church . we shew that the church of rome injoyns practices that are vnlawful for any man to determin himself to : they shew that this church enjoyns practices which are not vnlawful for a man to choose for himself ; but for authority to choose for him . the things they except against in our communion are in themselves indifferent , and they cannot make them unlawful otherwise then by fetching a compass about , and pretending that they are then unlawful to be done , when our superiors require us to do them . and now i may leave it to the judgment of all men that can consider a case without great prejudice , whether there be reason to forsake the church of england upon the account of unlawful terms of communion pretended to be in her worship ; as well as upon the same account to leave the communion of the church of rome ; that is , whether a thing may become unlawful in gods worship for not being commanded by god , and for being enjoyned by man ; because every thing that god hath forbidden is neither lawful to be commanded by man ; nor to be done , though it be so commanded . i know not whether some of our brothers party may not think that he hath given us too much advantage by reducing the question to this state. but i think it is not his weakness but the weakness of his cause that has led him to it . for they are not able to prove the unlawfulness of the present impositions in order to communion , but upon such principles as these are . and i may appeal to mankind concerning the difference of the case between them against us , and us against the church of rome in this matter ; that the reason of our separation from rome will not justify their separation from us , nor that the reason upon which we challenge them of schism , can fly in our own faces , when the church of rome challengeth us of the same crime . but i shall say no more of this point at present , because i foresee occasion of resuming it presently in another place . but this author offereth another reason also of the vnlawfullness of those things that are required , and that because they have been and still are used in idolatrous services , and are not of themselves necessary to be used by us . i think i may venture to say that this reason has been sufficiently exposed . but my business is to note the difference of the case : we separate from rome , because otherwise we must communicate with her in her idolatry , which is necessary not to be done : the dissenters separate from us , because otherwise they must do some things not necessary to be done , which have been and still are done by idolaters . again the dissenters , as he says scruple kneeling in the act of receiving the communion , because there is an objectum motivum , as he calls it , before their eyes . i think he means because the elements are worshipped by the papists , who say they believe them to be no longer elements , but god himself . and to kneel therefore when we take these into our hands , is to give some occasion to others to think that we worship the elements ; and therefore the dissenters question the lawfulness of an adoration of god under these circumstances . i am glad if it be but question and scruple , though i am sorry 't is so much . but whether they only scruple kneeling upon this account , or more than scruple it , for this gentleman does not always speak so distinctly as i could wish : there is however this difference in the case ; that whereas one principal reason why we separate from the papists , is because we dare not worship bread , which without all question is idolatry ; one reason why the dissenters separate from us , is because we who have so loudly declared against that idolatry , do worship ( not the bread , which we believe to retain its own nature , but ) god only , as they themselves confess , when we partake of that bread. and here i may be content to let the matter rest , that whether we consider the particulars pretended to be unlawful in both communions ; or the way taken by us to prove those unlawful which the church of rome would impose upon us , and that way which the dissenters use to make out the like charge against the church of england , the difference is so great , that the charge of schism which , upon this account , viz. of terms of communion in worship , we bring against the dissenters for separating from us , cannot with reason and modesty be returned upon our selves for separating from the church of rome . i have now compared the two cases with respect to authority and terms of communion . but before i proceed to compare them with respect to the plea of conscience ; i shall endeavour to represent some other differences of the case that are plainly consequent upon one or both of those differences which we have already considered . and they are these three ; . the difference of the case , with respect to separation for greater purity of worship and ordinances . . the difference with respect to that common question who shall be the judge ? . the difference of the principles upon which either side separates , as to their tendency either to maintain , or to overthrow one communion amongst christians . . with respect to separation , for greater purity of worship and ordinances . the dissenters say , that if for greater purity england separated from rome , others also may for greater purity separate from england . and because i perceive this consequence is insisted upon , not only by well meaning people , but by some that would not be thought the meanest of the party , i shall examin it as throughly as i can ; hoping to gain the readers pardon , if i repeat some things that have been already discoursed ; but which are necessary to be observed in order to a right understanding of this matter . the ground i shall proceed upon in discoursing of this consequence , is that we and the dissenters do not understand the same thing by greater purity . by the impurity or corruption of the roman communion which is the principal reason of our departing from it , we understand the sinfulness thereof ; and by separating from that church for greater purity we therefore mean forsaking her communion that we might not partake in her sins ; which otherwise we could not avoid . to make good this charge , that her communion was and still is corrupted in this sense , we have but that one plain way already declared . we shew that there are several doctrines which she professeth ; several things in her worship which she practiseth , that are plainly contrary to the truth which god hath revealed and to the laws which he hath delivered to us : and that those errors and these practices are not of a slight nature , but that they grate upon the very foundations of christianity : and moreover , that she exacteth the profession of the one , and the doing of the other from all her members . so that when we say , that we separate from that church for greater purity , we mean that there are several impure , or sinful conditions of communion required in that church , with which , as she has ordered the matter , we must pollute our selves , and of which we our selves must be guilty , if we communicate with her at all : and therefore it was necessary for us to depart from her , because it is most necessary not to deny the truths or break the laws of god. therefore also by saying that we separated for greater purity , we mean not that we have forsaken but some corruptions only of the roman worship , as if our communion were now indeed purer then theirs though not so pure as it ought to be . this is not our meaning : for we contend that this church hath purged away all those practices , and abolisht all those rules relating to gods worship , which are contrary to his word ; and by consequence that there is no impurity left in the conditions of our communion ; so that any man whose conscience is rightly informed may communicate with us without sin. wherefore this comparative expression of separating for greater purity from the roman church , respecteth the state of that church , supposing indeed that all the conditions of that churches-communion were not impure , but withal implying that some of them , and those truly not a few , were so ; and therefore that her communion was not pure enough for any christian to join in it with a good conscience . thus i have shewn what we understand by separating for greater purity , and how we maintain this plea in answer to the church of rome . now therefore although the dissenters use the same plea in words , in answer to us , yet if they do not understand the same thing by it that we do , nor attempt to make it out by shewing wherein our communion is corrupted with such conditions as oblige the members of this church to do what god hath forbidden , or to neglect what he hath commanded them to do , or to contradict what he hath revealed ; this plea i say if it be not made out by such particulars as these , is by them weakly brought to justify their separation from us , by our example in separating from rome . and though the general pretence may serve to delude injudicious people , who have not learnt to distinguish between reasons and colours ; yet it will neither acquit them before god , nor in the judgment of wise men who can easily discern and will impartially consider the difference of the case . it is indeed a plausible colour for their separation from us , that we separated from rome for greater purity ; and but a colour unless they could shew wherein our communion is impure , or which is all one , what are those conditions thereof which be sinful or repugnant to the laws of god. but what is it that they mean by this greater purity of worship for which they separate ? wherein doth this purity consist ? let reasonable men judge . extemporary prayers are more pure than forms of prayer : to receive the communion sitting or standing is more pure than to receive it kneeling . to omit the sign of the cross after baptism , is more pure than to use it . and the ministers praying in a coat or a cloak , is more pure then to pray in a surplice . but till they can shew that our way in any of these instances is forbidden by god , either they cannot justly pretend that it is impure ; or at least they must confess that they mean by impurity , something else when they charge it upon us , than what we mean by it , when we charge it upon the communion of the romish church , and therefore that they do not use the same plea against us , that we produce against that . for with us impurity is sin , and an impure communion is a communion in which we cannot communicate without sin , i. e. without transgressing the law of god. but as far as i can see , impurity with them must go for something else , that is , either for doing things that god hath not forbidden , or for the omitting of things that he hath not commanded . and if the church hath power in indifferent things ; and that be pure , against which there is no law ; their pretence of separating for greater purity is altogether groundless , unless they can prove that they cannot have communion with us , without neglecting to do what god commands , or doing what he forbids . therefore the former discourse concerning terms of communion shews that there is a vast difference between this plea as it is used by us , and as it is used by the separatists against us . for we do not separate from the communion of the roman church upon this principle that the church hath no power to make orders for the worship of god in matters that are left to our liberty , or to prescribe rites and ceremonies that are not contrary to gods word . but upon this principle as far as we can judge , do the dissenters separate from us ; and the main controversie we have with them is , whether it be within the compass of human authority to prescribe in things of this sort ; and consequently whether it be part of the duty of christians to submit unto , and in their practice to comply with such prescriptions . they will not deny , that we shew the church of rome where the scripture forbids what that church requires , and this , through all those instances of their corruption in worship , for which we pretend it necessary for us to depart from her communion . now if the dissenters can shew the like of any condition in our communion i promise to recant all that i have said in behalf of the church of england , under this head of the purity of her communion , and instead of vindicating my defence of our church as to this particular , to depart from her communion in that thing , whatever may come of it , from this time forwards . and i trust that through the grace of god i should not for the sake of any worldly interest , either resist the evidence of any clear argument tending to my conviction , or act in contradiction to a convinced conscience and judgment , in a matter of this high nature . but to deal plainly , the dissenters seem to be very sensible of the uncasiness of this task , that is , of proceeding in the same method to convince us of vnlawful terms of communion , which we use against the church of rome . they go another way to work , and it would make an indifferent man suspect their cause , to see what shifts they use to make good their pretence . they demand of us where scripture commands , or what need there is of those things , which our church requires . they pretend that the liberty of christians does in great part consist in this , that they ought not by man to be determined to any practice in gods worship , to which god , or the nature of the thing has not determined them . they say , that the appointment of significant rites and ceremonies is a derogation from the royalty of christ , and the sufficiency of the scriptures . and to give some countenance to these pretences they would perswade us that the scripture it self intimates some such thing , as if nothing were to be done in gods worship but what is by god himself commanded , excepting always those circumstances necessary to action , the choice whereof must yet be left to every man , and , as we are now taught , authority must not so much as meddle with them . to this purpose we are told of the pattern in the mount , of strange fire that was not commanded , and of the unlawfulness of adding to , or diminishing from the law of moses : as if these places of scripture made all impositions concerning the order of divine worship , as unlawful , as the express word of god shews so many particular practices of the roman church in her worship to be . but leaving these attempts of theirs to be examined in the more particular controversies : who sees not what a wide difference there is in the particular management and application of this general proposition , that we must not communicate with any church in impurity , between the church of england against the papists , and between the dissenters against the church of england ? for we are secure against all just accusation from the church of rome if this one proposition be true , that it is not in the power of any church to dispense with the laws of god , or to absolve us from our obligation to keep them . but the dissenters cannot avoid the justice of our charge against them , unless this proposition be true also , that the church hath no authority in things of an indifferent nature , to prescribe such in divine service , as shall be thought most agreeable to the general rules of reason and scripture , and most sutable to the great ends of chrstianity . now if what we say in these things will hang well together , that is , if the former proposition be true , and if the truth thereof , shall not hinder the latter from being false ; then with very good reason may we pretend that it was necessary for us to separate from rome for greater purity , or for the avoiding of sin : but the dissenters will have no just ground from our example to pretend the same , in their separation from the church of england . and , i think , the difference is plainly enough confess'd by those of the separation that hold occasional communion with our church to be lawful , that is who think it lawful to communicate actually with us upon occasion , though they are all the while members of separate churches . for if our communion is polluted with sinful conditions , how comes it to pass that this occasional communion as they call it , should be more lawful then constant communion ? unless they will say it is lawful sometimes to break gods commandments , but not lawful to do it ordinarily . but i know they will not say so . and therefore when they say that they cannot without sin become members of our churches , though without sin they can sometimes join in our publick worship ; they seem to suppose that the way of worship in the separate meetings , is more perfect than ours in respect of those things which do not fall under any particular law of god , but may be ordered better or worse , as men are more or less prudent , or as they take greater or less heed to the general rules of reason and scripture concerning things indifferent . and withal that there is so much more gravity , decency , simplicity and tendency to edification in the outward mode of their worship , that it would be a sin to let it fall , or in practise to prefer ours before it . but by this i think any body may see what a difference there is between what we , and these men mean by the same pretence of refusing to communicate , where it cannot be done without sin. for our meaning is , that there are such conditions of communion in the church of rome , that as the case stands , it would be a wickedness to communicate with her at any time . but they mean no such thing against us , since without scruple they can sometimes communicate with us ; only they suppose they have set up a more perfect communion ; and they do not forsake our communion as unlawful in it self , but they think it their duty to prefer a better before it . so that in this pretence for separation , these men do not understand purity in opposition to sin , or breaking any of gods commandments ; but purity in opposition to a less convenient or prudent ordering of the outward mode of worship . that is , they do not understand the same thing by separating from the communion of a church for greater purity , that we understand by it : nor can they urge that pretence for separation from us , as we do urge it against the church of rome : and consequently our reason of separating from that church for greater purity , does not hold to justify their separation from us . upon consideration of the whole matter i hope the papists will find no protestant of our church easy and silly enough to be deluded by such superficial colours as these are . you see , say they , what is become of leaving the communion of the church for greater purity . the protestants at first forsook the catholick , i. e. roman church for greater purity . and do not the presbyterians forsake the church of england for greater purity ? and so do the independents set up their congregations for greater purity . and the anabaptists for the same reason depart from them : and the quakers from them all : and there is no end of breaking communion upon such pretences as these are ; which are as good against your selves , as they are against us : and therefore you may choose whether you will return to the church from which you first brake away under pretence of reformation , or whether you will follow your principle till you are refined into quakers , or it may be into a more absurd and mad sort of people than the quakers themselves are . it is a lamentable thing to see men of common understanding couzened by such palpable fallacies as these are ; though it is not to be wondred at , that the agents of the roman church make the best use of them , they can ; since a foul cause must be beholden to such artifices as these , to blanch it over . but i pray might there not be such corruptions in your church , that we with good reason might pretend it necessary to forsake your communion for one that was purer ; and yet there may be none in ours to give any man just cause to leave us upon that pretence ? is it impossible that it should ever be just and necessary to depart from the communion of a church upon the account of her corruptions , because every man that has a mouth , and can speak , may say if he please , that he separates for greater purity , though there be no reasonable cause to say so ? or does it follow that because our dissenters are mistaken in believing that we have given them sufficient cause to deal by us , as we have done by you , that is , to forsake our communion for greater purity , as we have forsaken yours upon the same account ; that therefore we also must needs proceed upon mistakes in so doing ? what if some of them are erroneously perswaded that they ought not to submit to human orders in the performance of gods worship , if there be no particular warrant in gods word for them ; may not we for all this be sure that your church requireth men to do things which god hath particularly forbidden ? and if we be sure of this upon the plain grounds of reason and scripture ; should we be afraid to reject your communion in these things , because another sort of men are so unreasonably wilful as to reject our communion for the sake of things that are nothing like to these ? what if they conceiving that our forms of prayer are not so edifying , that our rites and ceremonies are not so expedient , but rather vnlawful as being human inventions ; what , i say , if they lay so great a stress upon these things as to set up a communion which they fancy to be more refined and unexceptionable ? may they not be to blame in all this , and yet the church of england not be liable to blame , but worthy of commendation for departing from you in your latin service , your half communion , your praying to dead men and women , your giving divine honors to a wafer and your other gross superstitions and idolatries ? although our church had not ordered her publick worship so discreetly and carefully , but that in sundry things it might be reformed to good purpose ; it might yet by no means be necessary for any of her members to forsake her communion ; but it would on the other hand be their great fault so to do , so long as she holds forth all the necessary means of salvation and requires nothing to be professed , or to be done that is contrary to gods word . but yet it would be necessary to renounce the profession of your impious errors , and to forsake you in all things wherein your selves have departed from the plain truths of reason and christianity , and contradicted the plain word and laws of god. though it may happen that a man may do so foolishly , as to run himself upon great inconvenience in forsaking his habitation , because there is some petty disease reigning thereabouts , which is known to endanger no mans life ; yet it may be wisely done by another man to run his country when the plague is raging in every corner of it , especially if he could know that it were impossible for him to escape , if he should tarry there any longer : and yet , i suppose , you will not deny but the one as well as the other may pretend that he left his dwelling for the sake of better health , and more safely : but i hope you will grant that the later pretends this like a wise-man , though the other does it like a fool. the case we are upon is much what the same . from you it was necessary to depart for the sake of greater purity ; but so it is not necessary for you or others to depart from us ; and yet others may take the same plea into their mouths against us , and we may not be able to help it ; though we can well shew , that they have no good reason for it . and thus much for the difference of the case with respect to separation for greater purity . . i proceed next to consider the difference with respect to that common question , who shall be the judge ? the church of rome arrogating to her self an infallibility in determining all questions of faith , doth in pursuance of this claim deny private persons the liberty of examining her definitions by the holy scriptures ; and requireth them to acquiesce therein without more ado , as there is great reason they should , if indeed they have reason to believe her infallible . the church of england pretendeth not to infallibility ; but we say that she is not deceived in those points which she propounds to be believed as necessary to salvation nor in rejecting those other articles which the roman church propounds under that notion : and agreeably to this pretence she hath translated the holy scriptures into plain english , which are the best means whereby to judge , if what she says be not true ; she not only alloweth the people to read them , but exhorteth and requireth them so to do , and causeth them to be publickly read to the people in all religious assemblies . by this means she traineth up her members to an ability of judging , according to their several capacities ; not only concerning all that she teaches them to believe , but also concerning all that she teaches them to do as their duty to god or man ; so that she does not bring them up , as the church of rome educates her children to an implicit faith , and a blind obedience . but yet the superiors of our church do challenge a right to judge in some things for the people commited to their charge , and will not allow that in those things they should judge for themselves ; and they are all things that relate to publick order , and which may without sin be determined one way or another , but are capable of a better or worse determination ; that is , all indifferent things . we say that things of this nature being determined by a competent authority , ought without farther inquiry into the reasons of such determination , to be done by all that are under that authority . as for the peoples faith in god , and their obedience to him in doing what he hath commanded and avoiding what he hath forbidden , our church does not resolve that into her own authority , but into those very reasons upon which they that are in authority do build their own faith and obedience ; which reasons are included in the holy scriptures . but as to her appointments and orders in all things neither injoined by god himself , nor by him forbidden , she expecteth submission to them upon the account of her own authority ; and alloweth not us to judge of the expediency or inexpediency of them before we will conform our practice to them . all which is so to be understood that still her authority in these things is supposed to be of god , and the duty of submitting thereunto required in the general precepts of obedience to superiors . but if any man ask , who is to be judge of things indifferent as to a mans practice , whether his own conscience or his superior ? i answer that as to a man 's own practice , himself is to be judge what things are indifferent , and which consequently come within the compass of human authority to determin . for it is plain enough that by the same rule which sheweth us what is duty , and what is sin , we come to judge of what is indifferent . and therefore when we grant to private persons a judgment of discretion concerning sin and duty , we cannot deny them the right to judge what is neither duty nor sin , but indifferent ; which is the sum of what the author of the case in behalf of dissenters hath said upon that matter . but then how can authority pretend to abridge private persons of judging , as to their own practice concerning indifferent things ? to this i answer in the words of the same author , where he acknowledges his adversary to have said well to those who cannot comply with some things required in the liturgy and can say no more then that they think them not decent , not expedient , not orderly , for , says he , no private person is a judge of these things . which is an excellent saying , but so directly contrary to the main principles of his book , that i wonder how it fell from him . we are then to judge whether the things required by authority be indifferent , that is , lawful ; and then to judge no farther as to our own practice : but for the decency and expediency and orderliness of those things to leave our superiors to answer to god for that . our doing them is warranted by our rule , which is to obey authority in all lawful things . now it is things of this sort only , and with respect to order and decency , and prudent determination of what is most likely to edify , that our superiors pretend to judge for us what is , and what is not to be done ; so as to allow us no right to judge for our selves , about them . they claim obedience to their constitutions in these things , upon the account of their authority , which , when the matter is lawful , should without more ado conclude our practice . indeed they judge also what faith we are to profess , what worship we are to offer up to god , and what life we are to lead , in order to our receiving the benefit of church communion ; and by consequence they do take upon them to judge in our behalf , what are the articles of the christian faith , what is the true christian worship , and what it is to lead a christian life . for otherwise it were impossible that the ministers of christ , should discreetly and honestly use that authority which he hath left them to take into the church those that are duly qualified for it , and to turn out those that are no longer fit to be continued in it . but still there is a great difference between their judging for us in those things , and in the matters aforementioned . for they suppose that the articles of the christian faith , and the commandments of god , are the same that ever they were from the beginning of the church ; and that it is not in the power of man to make any alterations in these standing rules of christianity , and that obedience is not due to any authority of man going about to make such alterations . from whence it follows that private persons should be able to judge wherein true christianity consinsts as well as their superiors , that they also may offer up unto god a reasonable service . to which end the bible is put into all mens hands ; the meaning of the scriptures is opened in our religious assemblies ; the people are trained up to understand the particulars of christian faith and obedience , with the reasons and motives thereof , that as we said before , they may be able to resolve their faith into the same grounds of divine authority , upon which the bishops and pastors of the church do themselves believe . and we do unanimously acknowledge , that if this church makes the profession of false doctrine , or the braking of any of gods commandments , a condition of her communion ; they that upon this account separate from her communion are before god clear of the guilt of schism in so doing . and here she makes all private persons judges for themselves , whether she doth this or not , and that by training them up the best way she can , to be able to inform themselves in these matters . but the case is otherwise with respect to indifferent things relating to gods worship . for though our superiors profess that they are not to meddle , in adding to or taking from the faith and the commandments of god ; and though they appeal to private persons , that they do not in fact usurp an authority to this purpose , which they profess to disclaim ; yet in these indifferent things , they claim a power to add , or diminish , or to make such expedient alterations , as they shall think fit to be made ; and this without being any way accountable to the people for their discretion in so doing , before their orders be obeyed : and we say that whoever they are , that will not be concluded by authority in these things , but upon any pretence whatsoever taken from them , do break away from the communion of the church , they are guilty of schism in so doing . and this must be truly said , if what that author himself hath said be true , that no private person is judge of those things . and now i think any one may see a vast difference between the claim of the church of rome , to be the only judge of what she imposes upon her members , and the claim of the church of england to the same with reference to hers ; that in the former case it is unjust and unreasonable ; but in the later very equal and necessary , and which no man that is not over-ruled by a fit of passion and prejudice , but must allow to a competent authority . whereas therefore we have considered the points in question between the dissenters and our selves , with respect to prudence , expedience , and better edification : we say withal that this is more than we were bound to do in order to the conviction of dissenters , that it is their duty to conform to the liturgy and the laws of the church . and that because the authority by which they are establisht obligeth us to submission ( if there be nothing in them to make our communion with the church sinful ) though we should be so arrogant as to think we could have ordered these matters with more discretion , if our advice had been taken . but if , setting aside the consideration of authority , we have moreover shewn that upon all accounts of decency and expediency , forms of prayer are to be preferred before extemporary prayers , and that the particulars now excepted against are so far from betraying any want of judgment in those that prescribed them , that they are indications of the great wisdom and caution wherewith they proceeded ; we have not , i say , performed this , believing it necessary to prove the separation to be vnjustifiable , but intending to shew thereby that it is more inexcusable . and although it was no part of our design to render those of the separation more inexcusable by this performance , yet i beseech them to take care that it happens not so in the event . if after all , it be asked what an inferior is to do , that judgeth those things to be vnlawful , which his superiors in full perswasion that they are indifferent at least , require him to do ? i answer , as all men that have a sense of honesty will answer ; that whilest he is perswaded that they are unlawful , he ought to forbear them . but then , as no man of understanding will deny , he is yet a sinner before god for refusing that obedience to a lawful authority , which he ought to perform ; since in order to the performance of it , he might and ought to understand his duty better than he does . for as the forementioned author says , things indifferent and things commanded and forbidden are not things which we fancy , but which indeed are so . if the light of nature , and the holy scriptures are a rule of what is duty , and what is sin , they are a rule also of what is indifferent : and the same light that shews what is necessary to be done , and what is necessary not to be done , does withal shew what is lawful to be done or to be forborn . and as an erroneous perswasion that something is lawful which god hath forbidden , will not acquit any man , that hath the means of better information , from sin , in doing according to his perswasion of the lawfulness of what he does : so neither will any mans erroneous perswasion that his superiors require him to do what is vnlawful , when the thing it self is lawful , acquit him of the guilt of disobedience in following that perswasion . in what degrees this or that mans ignorance in these things is culpable , god only knoweth for the most part , and therefore he only can judge the world in righteousness . but more or less culpable it is in all that have means of knowledge . and it concerns every one of us , as we love our own souls , to consider impartially , what god hath commanded and what he hath forbidden in his word , and consequently what he has left to our liberty ; and that because his word is a rule sufficiently plain as to these things . for if those to whom god hath given authority , being corrupted in their judgments by passion or any worldly interest , take those things to be lawful which god hath forbidden , and impose them upon all that are subject to their rule ; their perswasion shall not hinder their being grievous sinners against god , nor exempt them from being answerable to him for abusing their authority , and for all the pernicious consequences thereof in drawing some men into wicked practices , and in punishing others for well doing . and by like reason , if subjects not rightly attending to the rule of their duty , are grown to a perswasion that those things are vnlawful , which their superiors injoin them to do ; whereas indeed they are indifferent ; and thereupon refuse to do them : this perswasion shall not acquit them before god , nor hinder them from being answerable for abusing their liberty , and for all the pernicious consequences of their disobedience , in setting a bad example , in breaking the peace of the church , in disturbing publick order , and , which very often happens , in giving occasion to the worst of men to profane the name of god , and to speak evil and blasphemous things of his holy religion . i say , ignorance will help no more in this later case than in the former , because it is as easie for the subject to know what is indifferent , as for the ruler to know what is vnlawful . these considerations i confess do more properly belong to the last plea of conscience ; but it was very convenient to touch upon them here , where we have been inquiring what things they are , in which authority is to over-rule private judgment , and to determine the practice of inferiors ; and withal how great a difference there is between the church of rome , and the church of england in answering this common question : who shall be the judge ? . i come now to the last difference consequent upon the two first respecting authority , and terms of communion , and that is the difference of the principles upon which each side separates , as to their tendency either to maintain , or to overthrow one communion amongst christians . this will fall under a double consideration . . that of maintaining one communion amongst christians in this kingdom . . that of maintaining one communion with forreign churches . i shall begin with the first . . as to vnity at home . the romanist pretends that upon the grounds of our reformation , divisions and separations will be endless amongst us ; we also pretend that the principles of the separation from the church of england , tend to the same : but with what difference of reason on each side , it is easy to judge by what has been said already . we have reason to think there would be no end of divisions , if a competent authority , injoining nothing but what is lawful to be done in the communion of christians , is not to be obeyed : and certainly this may be very true , although it be false , that to submit to the authority of the roman church , and that too in things unlawful to be done by any christian , or by any man , is necessary to prevent divisions . we say farther , that there can be no need of an ecclesiastical tyranny on the one hand , and a blind obedience on the other , to keep those christians together in one communion that live within one jurisdiction ; if a due use of authority in lawful superiors on the one hand , and a dutiful subjection of inferiors thereunto , on the other , would do the business , as most certainly it would . but if some men will be stubborn , we cannot help that , any more than we can hinder other men from being tyrants . but we are sure it concerns both the one and the other , as much as their salvation concerns them , not to be so . and if this consideration will not keep them within bounds , and make them wise and honest ; they must answer it to god one day . and in the mean time subjects that suffer vnjustly for refusing to obey the wicked commands of their superiors , must bear it as patiently as they can , and by their prayers to god , and their meek obedience to their rulers in all lawful things , endeavour to recover themselves into their good opinion . and superiors that are vexed with froward and disorderly subjects who break christian communion when no just cause is given them , must do what they can to lay the truth before them ; and if this be to no purpose , they must use their authority as prudently as they can to prevent the evil example from going farther . we are sensible what advantages the papists make to themselves against our reformation by the examples of dissenters , and the dissenters by the papists . when the papists have men and women of weak understandings to deal with , they tell them , that the reformation is run out into several sects and parties , and no man can tell where separation will end : if therefore you love vnity , return to the church of rome where we are all of one faith and communion . the separatists on the other side set off their claims to an unrestrainable liberty of choosing in what communion to worship god , by shewing to their proselytes the tyranny of the roman church . now we of the church of england are as much against the tyrannical vsurpations of that church as the dissenters , and as much for vnity against causless separation , and for obedience to lawful authority against stubbornness , as the romanists . and both these upon principles that consist well with one another . we say on the one side that a foreigner should not affect an authority over us , and that those who have the authority , ought to require nothing in the communion of christians , but what is agreeable to gods word , and lawful to be done : and on the other side , that in such things we ought to do what is commanded , and by no means to run into a separate communion . upon these principles we departed from rome , and stick where we are ; and i trust that through the grace of god , we shall neither go back to rome , nor run after the separation , there being no need , either of the former to preserve vnity , or of the later to avoid tyranny . to draw to a conclusion of this matter ; the main reason of our separation from rome was this , that we could not continue in her communion , without doing things that god hath plainly forbidden : the reformation of our church was at first effected by , and hath all along stood upon good and just authority : she does not only hold forth all necessary means of salvation , but she requires nothing to be done in her communion that is contrary to gods word . and therefore we hold our selves bound under the pain of schism to continue in her communion . now i do not understand how upon these principles men must run into endless separations , unless it be impossible for us ( whatever we pretend ) to know who are our lawful governours , and to know what god hath commanded , and what he hath forbidden us to do . and i must confess if these things be impossible to be known 't is a foolish thing for any man to trouble his conscience with cases of communion and separation . as for the dissenters ( to omit the independents whose churches are in their very constitution inconsistent with submitting to a common authority in matters of worship ) they have forsaken us for nothing but because the forms of our worship , or our two or three ceremonies in it , are not commanded in gods word , and because in things left otherwise to our liberty , we are determined by the authority of our superiors : or because these things might be better ordered , and because the communion which they have taken upon them to set up in opposition to the church of england is purer than ours , though ours be a lawful communion . now these principles do indeed tend to endless separations unless these men could tell us either how we could be united in one communion , though all of us believed it vnlawful to obey a competent authority that should presume to determin any indifferent things relating to gods worship ; or what particular communion that is from which it would be vnlawful to separate even upon this principle ; that there is no obligation to communion , where there is any thing possible to be mended in the outward mode of gods worship . in a word , they that separate upon just and necessary cause as the church of england hath done from the church of rome , and stop there , are not to be charged with the consequence of their practice , who separate without such causes , as the dissenters do from our church . and if they have proceeded farther than they are able to justify themselves by the principles of our reformation , they must answer for it themselves . . the principles of our reformation do not obstruct our communion with any true church of christ abroad , where there are no unlawful terms of communion . but so do the principles of the dissenters separation . by the same reason that our governours determin one common order of worship and discipline for the churches over which they have authority ; the governours of other churches also may determin in these things according to their prudence for the people subject to their authority . and we , who blame the church of rome for interposing her authority amongst us , with whom she has no more right to meddle than any other forreign church has , must in all things that come within the liberty of christians , leave other churches that are as independent upon vs as we are upon rome , to their authority and liberty . and this is what our church has expresly declared . in these our doings we condemn not other nations nor prescribe any thing but to our own people only , for we think it convenient that every country should use such ceremonies as they shall think best to the setting forth of gods honor and glory , and to the reducing of the people to a most perfect and godly living without error or superstition , and that they should put away other things , which from time to time they perceive to be most abused , as in mens ordinances it often chanceth diversly in divers countries . in pursuance of which excellent and truly catholick declaration , i would not only communicate with foreign churches , who differ from us in nothing but matters of from and ceremony ; but if i were amongst them , i should observe their establish'd modes and forms of worship ; and though i thought our own way at home , worthy upon all the accounts of order and decency and tendency to edification , to be preferred before theirs ; yet i should not only conform to their way ; but religiously abstain from creating any prejudice against it in the minds of christian people in those places ; and rather do all that honestly i could to bring those to a favourable opinion of it , who were prejudiced against it . this is that rule which st. austin thought should take place , not only in respect of those orders which were establish'd by synods of bishops , but in respect also of those customs which had crept into particular churches though it was hard to tell why or how they came in . in things of this nature saith he there is one most wholesom rule to be observed , that wherever we see any of them obtain which are neither contrary to faith nor good manners , and have some tendency to edification , we should not only abstain from finding fault with them , but commend and practise them our selves . and yet he complains in this very epistle of the multitude of ceremonious observations , in which particular churches differed from one another , and wishes that a reformation were made by authority . thus in the foregoing epistle , speaking of the different observations of divers places , for instance , that some fast upon the saturday and some do not , &c. and of all other things of this kind which are to be accounted indifferent ; nothing , says he , does more become the gravity and prudence of a christian , then to do after the manner of that church into which he shall happen to come . then he relates st. ambrose his celebrated answer to monica about things of this sort : when i am at rome i fast on the saturday , when i am here at milan i do not fast . and so when thou comest into any church , observe its customs if thou wouldest neither give just cause of offence , nor take offence without cause . this advice st. austin magnified highly , and the more he thought of it the better he liked it . for , says he , i have often with great sorrow considered how the minds of weak christians have been disturbed , by the quarrelsom humour and superstitious niceness of some of the brethren , who upon very slight grounds of reasoning , or being addicted to their own customs at home , or fond of what they have observed abroad , raise such wrangling disputes about things that cannot be clearly determined either by the authority of holy scripture , or the vniversal tradition of the church catholick , or by the consideration of what is best for reformation of life , that they seem to reckon nothing well done , but what they do themselves . i shall add no more but that plain rule he gives elsewhere to this purpose : as to things in which the scripture defines nothing certain one way or the other , the custom of the church , and the decrees of our ancestors , are to be held for law. now by this and much more that might be produced , we may see what the true notion of that liberty was which the ancient church allowed in matters of indifference . not that there was no rule in the particular churches for the ordering and regulating of things of this sort : for we find the bishops did use their authority in these things , over their charges , as st. ambrose's words to st. austin's mother about the forementioned case do plainly imply . resist not thy bishop in this matter ; but what he does , that do thou without any scruple or dispute : and besides those particular customs , the variety and multitude of which st. austin complains of , there were the determinations of episcopal synods concerning things not determined in scripture , which he does not complain of . but their liberty consisted in this , that the rules of this sort establisht in the communion of any church , were not imposed upon foreign churches ▪ and catholick communion was not broken upon the account of different rites , and customs . for though st. austin was sorry to see the minds of some weak christians troubled about questions of this kind , yet i do not find that he had any occasion given him to complain that communion was broken upon these accounts ; as before his time it had been , by pope victors rashness in presuming to excommunicate the asiatick bishops for observing easter upon the fourteenth of march ; had not irenaeus and other wise and moderate persons seasonably interposed . to apply all this to the matter in hand : since the church of rome has made such things conditions of communion with her as are in st. austin's phrase contrary to faith and good manners , our separation from her upon this account , does not at all hinder us from communicating with any true church in the world , that does not bar us out by unlawful terms of communion . for in things that god hath left at liberty , this church persumes not to interpose her authority abroad ; nor refuses the communion of those churches whose customs and observations are different from ours meerly because they are different . nay , let the church of rome her self make an end of imposing false doctrines and wicked practices , and there will be an end of our separation from her : let her give over commanding things that god hath forbidden , and makeing articles of faith of things that are not revealed , but are indeed contrary to sense and reason ; and she may for us use her authority at home in things indifferent ; and though she be guilty of great abuses even in this kind , which need a reformation ; yet i for my part should not break communion with her for these things , if she would throughly purge her self from the other . in the mean time we are of one communion with all foreign churches that presume not to change the faith , nor to contradict the laws of god ; and this we should demonstrate by actual communion with them , if we had occasion to go abroad amongst them . but this makes our case very different from that of the dissenters who separate from the church . for so long as they withdraw from our communion for the sake of ecclesiastical order that are not contrary to gods word , and separate from us upon this principle , that every thing is unlawful in gods worship which is not commanded in scripture , but enjoined by our superiors only ; they must not upon those principles have communicated with any church in the primitive times , when there were far more vncommanded rites and vsages establish'd , for the regulating of worship , than now there are in our church . and upon these principles they must not communicate with any reformed churches abroad , since how different so ever the external mode of their worship may be from ours , yet some they all have , and that consisting of rules not determined by gods word , but by the law or custom of man. to new england they must not go , hoping to find a communion there lawful to be embraced upon these principles . the nonconformists to our liturgy and discipline that are there , will stand to their own censures concerning worship and discipline , and will make out by their church authority such as it is , what they cannot shew chapter and verse for . our separatists if they go thither shall find no other use of their liberty allowed there , but conformity and compliance with that way of worship and government which there obtains . it is a plain case that they who separate from our church upon the account of unommanded rites and practices in gods worship , are something more obliged by this principle to avoid communion with all foreign churches ; if rules for customs concerning things indifferent are to be found amongst them all , as most certainly such rules more or fewer all of them have : for in the former case our separatists are disobedient to their proper governours and pastors , whose authority over them is some thing more clear and indisputable , than that of the governours of other churches where they might happen to go . and therefore if they will not in things of this nature , be determined by an authority at home , there is less reason to believe their consciences will suffer them to be determined therein by one abroad . i conclude therefore that though our reformation leaves usfree to communicate with all churches abroad , that do not require sinful terms of communion as the church of rome does ; yet the separation of the dissenters from us proceeds upon grounds destructive of communion with any church in the world. indeed i believe , most of our dissenters would communicate with several reformed churches abroad , but in so doing they must depart from the principles upon which they separate at home ; unless they can find a reformed church , which exerciseth no authority in forms of prayer , nor in any indifferent things for the external regulation of publick worship . but where such a church is to be found , i am yet to be informed . and thus much concerning those differences of the case , that are consequent upon the difference in point of authority and of terms of communion . . i come now to consider the last plea i propounded which i confessed was not only common to both sides , but which also may be as truly alledged on the one side , as on the other . and that is the plea of conscience . the dissenters say that they separate from us , being perswaded that they ought so to do . and i must needs say that some degree of integrity is implyed in this plea , if honestly it be made ; and such a degree it is , as without which no man can be an honest man. and therefore instead of going about to make it questionable whether indeed it be out of conscience , that they generally separate from us ; i shall here admit it , adding only that it stands every one of them in hand , to be as sure as they can be , that there is this reason at least for their separation from us . and i hope none of them will take this admonition in ill part ; since i charge my self and desire all the people of our own communion to be careful that we be fully perswaded in our own minds that in duty to god we are bound to separate even from the church of rome ; and that we do not either chuse one communion or refuse another for carnal and worldly interest . for we say the very same thing , viz. that in conscience we are perswaded , that to forsake the communion of the church of rome , and of every church in her communion , as the terms of her communion now stand , is a necessary duty . but then if we had no more to say for our selves then this comes to , we should make but a very weak apology for our separation from the roman church , and have some reason to be ashamed of it . for , to deal plainly , this is no more then what a turk or a jew may say for refusing to become a christian , and no more then what he may truly say too , that is , that his conscience will not let him be a christian , since he is verily perswaded that christianity is not from god , so far as it is contrary to the religion by him professed . now this , if it be truly said , shall make him a more honest turk or jew , than another that is in his conscience convinced of the truth , which with his mouth he denies , yet it shall not make that which he professes to be more true in his mouth , than it is in the mouth of a hypocrite . and i suppose no christian will say that his pretence of conscience though it be not meer pretence , will acquit him of sin in rejecting the gospel of christ when it 's offered to him with reasonable evidence . from whence i think it follows , that the misinformation of his conscience , or his erroneous perswasion is his sin. and therefore though it be true that we do separate from the roman communion out of conscience ; yet whether we do well upon the whole matter in this or not , must be judged of by those reasons upon which we are perswaded that so we ought to do , and not meerly by our perswasion it self . for otherwise we should lay down a principle that would vindicate a man in the greatest errors that can be profess'd , and justify him in the most wicked things that can be done under an erroneous perswasion that those are not errors and that these are not wicked things . wherefore i beseech all those that forsake the communion of the church of england , upon a general and loose perswasion of which they are able to give little or no particular account , that they do well in forsaking us , and that they should sin in communicating with us : i beseech them , i say , to lay this to heart , and a most evident truth it is , that if their perswasion be erroneous , they are notwithstanding their perswasion guilty of schism : and withal , that if they are perswaded , this is no great matter , as i plainly perceive they are for the most part , yet if schism be a very great and aggravated sin ; neither will their ignorance acquit them of guilt proportionable to the heinous nature of the sin. for my part i should not envy their safety , could i believe they had reason to be secure , upon giving this account of their separation and that honestly too , that they are satisfied in conscience about it ; and there is an end . but i have reason to warn them of the danger of such presumption ; since many of the jews and heathens that delivered up the servants of christ to be killed for their profession , were doubtless satisfied in conscience , that they did god service in so doing . and for ought i know some that have served the ends of the bloody church of rome , may have been so perswaded too . but do you think that god will give them thanks for what they did , because of their good meaning ? and if you do not think so ; you have no reason to conclude that you shall be acquitted from your separation , if a sin it be , and a great one too , meerly because you do not believe it to be a matter of any great consequence , or indeed any fault at all , but rather a duty . i do not know to what purpose divine truth is made known to us by nature and by scripture , and the laws of god are written upon our hearts , and these and more laws besides written in the gospel , if we might yet be safely ignorant of our duty as we are men , or as we are christians , and of that truth which is necessary to the performance of that duty . to what end hath god made known his will , and given us the means of knowing it , and a reasonable nature to make us capable of using those means , if ignorance might still be pleaded in our justification ? for my part i cannot tell , and let him that cannot look to it , that no prejudice nor passion , nor laziness , nor worldly interest lye at the bottom of his heart either to hinder his searching , or if he searches , to hinder his finding out that divine truth , which is the rule of his duty . i say this the rather , because no body will deny that it is well said . but it fares with this as it does with many other good sayings , it is still by all acknowledged to be good , but it is by few well applied . but thus far at least i may desire those of the separation to apply it to themselves , that if they vnnecessarily divide themselves from the communion of this church , the perswasion of their conscience that they are bound to divide from us , will by no means bring them off in so doing from the condemnation that belongs to that sin. to break the communion of christians is quite contrary to the ordinance and institution of christ , who made his church one body ; and the consequences of it are very destructive of all the great ends of christianity , and in such cases , the blame is very great , wherever it lies ; and i will be bold to say , it could not be very great , if it were hard for an honest and unprejudiced mind to find what ought , and what ought not to be done to maintain vnity of communion amongst christians . and therefore it concerns every man as he tenders the salvation of his soul , to look to it , that the cause of his separation be just . for this is one of those cases wherein a meer perswasion of conscience , will not secure a man acting according to it from sinning against god. and from hence it is evident that this plea that we cannot in conscience hold communion with the church of rome , may in our mouths be a very good plea against the papists , as without question it is if our consciences are rightly informed as to the points controverted between them and us : but the same plea in the mouths of the dissenters against the church of england , may not be good , as most certainly it is not , if they are perswaded that our church hath given them just cause for their separation , when there is indeed no such matter . and therefore we may at least hope that they will all of them now seriously apply themselves to consider the merits of the cause between them and us , which they are now in an especial manner bound to do , since the charity of the ministers of this city hath made the doing of it easie to all persons , that will be at the pains to judge for themselves , and that by bringing down the particular questions in controversy between them and us to the capacity of ordinary christians . and if they will not use this opportunity that is given them to consider these things they will have the more to answer to god ; and they most of all that disswade them from it . to conclude this point : whereas the papists declaim against our separation from them , under pretence of conscience , as if this had shewn the way to all sorts of sectaries to separate from us upon the same pretence : we hope that all persons who are not willing to be deceived , will be able to distinguish between a misguided conscience on the one hand , and a well informed conscience on the other ; and then proceed to examine the reasons of our separation , whether they be not just and necessary ; and if they find them so to be , that they will acquit us from all their blame , who separate without such reasons . for it is very foolish and unjust not to allow the pretence of conscience to be good in any case , because it is not so in all cases . surely if one mans conscience tell him that he may and ought to rebel , while himself does not believe that 't is rebellion he is going about ; this hinders not , but another man may lawfully and justly pretend conscience for his loyalty , and duty to the government . and though in some places of the world , there are sovereign princes , who extend their authority for the maintaining of damnable errors , and the suppressing of gods holy truth , and all the while believe that they use their power as they ought to do ; yet this shall not hinder but that princes who believe and profess the true religion , and withal protect and encourage it with their authority as much as they can , being fully perswaded that so they ought to do , that they , i say , shall for this receive gods thanks and rewards , while the former shall go without them . in like manner conscience may be pretended for disobeying the just laws of that authority which god hath set in the world , and in the church ; but this shall not hinder his plea from being good , who pretends conscience for refusing to commit idolatry , though all the powers under heaven should require him so to do . men may by mistake , think they do god good service in murdering his servants ; for this has been done by you of the church of rome . and if in such plain cases as these , your understandings have been so foully corrupted , it is not so greatly to be wondred at , that the judgments of other men are so perverted by interest and passion , as to believe themselves countermanded by god in things required by their superiors ; but in which it would not be their sin , but a performance of their duty to obey . and yet i hope this answer whether it be better to obey god or man , judge ye , was once truly and pertinently made ; and may be so again . and so much for the difference of the case with respect to conscience ; which was the last thing to be considered . and now i know that all this will signify very little to any man that brings not an honest mind with him to consider it , or who had rather take his opinions in these things upon trust , than be at the pains to judge for himself . but why should a man disparage himself so much , as not to use that understanding which god hath given him in matters that concern his salvation ? why should he be such an enemy to himself , as not to let go a dangerous mistake , when he may enjoy the truth instead of it , if he will use reasonable diligence to consider what is said on both sides ? give me leave to put you in mind of your duty in this case , in the words of an ancient christian writer in all matters of practice and duty it concerns every man to use his own judgment and discretion , in searching for truth , and in weighing what is fit to be done , rather then to be betrayed into error and sin , by such a credulous reliance upon others , as if himself had not the reason of a man , and were incapable of consideration . god has given to every man his share of wit both to find out some things by himself , and to weigh those which he hears from others . 't is natural to all men to love wisdom , and to desire the knowledge of the truth . and they make fools of themselves , who without discretion take the words of their leaders for all that they say , and follow them more like beasts , than like reasonable creatures , which words are not so to be taken , as if it were dishonourable or dangerous to any man to make use of the help of others in learning the truth : for this were to destroy the use of the ministry in the church of christ , and to take away the benefit of mutual endeavours to lead one another into a right understanding of our duty . but for all this , it may be a very foolish and unmanly part , and it may betray us into very dangerous errors , not to use our own judgment at all in matters of sin and duty , and in opinions leading to the one or the other ; but instead thereof to rely altogether upon their authority whom we have taken for our guides . this is what we say both to the people of the popish , and of the dissenting party ; that if they would apply themselves with ordinary diligence , and with a sincere mind , to find out the truth in thse cases they would not meet with any great difficulty to perplex them in the way ; especially if they whose authority they very much rely upon , would speak as plainly and clearly to the points in question as , without vanity i may say , we have hitherto done . we do not desire them to stop their ears against those whom they follow at present : all that we beg of them is , that they would not take every thing upon trust , that others tell them in these matters , but hear what we also have to offer to them , and not only hear , but consider and weigh it with the best judgment they have . and let me say this to all those whom i now speak of , whether papists or dissenters , that if you set your selves with a sincere desire of being rightly informed , to compare our reasons , with them whom hitherto you have trusted , some advantage you will gain by it , whatever the success be . for if the truth be not on our side , you will in all likelihood get this benefit by it , to be confirmed in your own way , upon better grounds than you had before . but if it be , it is then to be hoped that through the grace of god you will discorn it , and entertain it , for which blessing you and we shall have great reason to yield our hearty thanks and praises to the father of lights ; who giveth wisdom to them that ask him . but if you should be so unhappily prejudiced on the wrong side as to miss this benefit , yet let me tell you it will turn to some good account for you at last , that you took pains to be better informed ; and that you were not altogether wanting to your selves to come to a right understanding of your duty in these particulars , by disposing your selves to impartiality , and by reading , and meditating , and praying in all this , for the illumination of gods holy spirit . and now , i trust , there is little need to tell you , that if your leaders discourage you from taking this pains , it may justly make you suspect that your cause will not bear the trial. if they would keep up your confidence by their own , and all the while divert you from comparing one thing with another , and from trying what is said on both sides ; you have sufficient cause to question either their honesty or their understanding . and the more unwilling they are that you should examin what we and they say , the more reason do they give you to resolve that you will do so . i have shewn how greatly different the case of the true english protestant is from that of the papist on the one hand , and that of the separatist on the other . and though the difference be so very notorious as it is , yet we know the popish priests have represented our reformation under such colours , as to make it look like fanaticism , and the dissenters are made to believe on the other hand that our reformation is but a better sort of popery . and some little popular things are said on both sides to make these pretences look like truth . but now i have brought these colours into the light ; and if you will but take upon your selves to use your own eyes , you may , i think , easily discern that you have been all this while abused . at least i have given you reason enough to make farther inquiries , and to consider more particular questions . but if upon reading this general discourse , you should resolve to keep where you are , and to trouble your selves no farther ; i am confident the true reason thereof must be this , that you are afraid to proceed , lest you should be convinced ; and this is nothing less than wilfully to bar up your minds against the knowledge of the truth . for though i have no conceit of this performance , as if i had done any great matter in it ; yet i am conscious to my self that i intended honestly all along , and i am sure i have written plainly , and have laid some things together that may give just occasion to any well meaning papist or sectary to question the safety of the way he is in at present ; especially if he has never troubled himself to consider these things before . and now i do heartily desire you all , for i cannot desire this too often or too earnestly ; that you would take the word of god for your rule , and propound the rewards of another life for your end , and set the fear of god before your eyes , whilest you consider and examin these things . it is our concern for the safety of your souls , as well as for the welfare of this poor church so distressed with adversaries on both sides , that putteth us forward upon all occasions , to lay these things before you . do not therefore read these books which are indeed publisht for your sakes , as if they were written against you . there is not one of us , i am confident but is troubled to see you expose your selves to the penalties of the laws of the land that are against you : but we are more sorry to consider , that at the same time you do also incur the high displeasure of god. we would sain have you to avoid both the one and the other . and if you would hearken to us , the worst you would get by it , is to live with less disturbance in this world , but whether that should prove true or not , you would walk in a more safe and plain way to heaven , than that which any of you are in at present . and i hope you would not grudge that good which this church should receive by your return to us , when you would do your selves so much more by it . if therefore you think our importunity troublesom , pray remember what it is that makes us importunate ; and let no misconstruction of the design of your friends , render their honest endeavours ineffectual to your conviction . we would have you understand the truth , and do your duty ; and as this end is charitable , so you must needs grant those means to be charitable also , by which we are contributing towards it . it is indeed our concern that these means should take place , but it is yours something more , if you are under great and dangerous , mistakes as i am perswaded you are . but if you should be so prejudiced against us as to think that we write these controversies more in concern for the temporal interests of this church , than for your spiritual good , pray will you make this profitable use of that hard thought , as to excel us in this matter , by being more careful not to mix any carnal and worldly affection with your judgment in reading these things , then you imagine us to be in writing of them . be as strict as you will in examining what we say in behalf of our church ; only be willing that truth should overcome ; and consider that if that prevails against your errors , you indeed are the conquerours , and that the greatest gain will be yours , both in this world and in the world to come . i have no mind to prejudge which party it is that we may hope to win more of to the truth than of the other ; being very willing to believe that there is no cause of despairing to do good on either side . as for the dissenters ; methinks , it should not be hard to disswade the most of them , from breaking the communion of that church any longer , with which they agree in the substance of faith and worship , and from differing with authority for the future about things indifferent . the cause of the separation , as it is managed by themselves is so very slight , that one would hope they should be of themselves something afraid to venture their being schismaticks upon it , and consequently that they should be ready to consider what has been said to shew that there is indeed no just cause given them to separate from our church ; and that there is no reason to call any thing popery which they dislike in our communion ; as some of them have done to the great disadvantage of the protestant religion ; since as much as in them lay , they have made the world believe that the cause of popery is better than it is ; and that it doth not consist only of opinions and practices that cannot be defended , but of some also that may . and it is not the least kindness that the indiscreet zeal of some protestants hath done to the church of rome , that they have inveighed against some things , which may be easily justified , as if they also were popish corruptions . and the learned men of that church have not been behind hand in making use of this advantage , and that by straining their utmost wit , to represent the protestant religion under such colours , as if it stood in opposition to episcopacy and liturgy , and to all ecclesiastical canons and constitutions . and i am perswaded the dissenters cannot do the protestant religion a greater kindness , than by forbearing to give them this occasion for the future . for let a cause be never so good in it self , it is never likely to thrive in their hands , who instead of pressing their adversaries with what they can never maintain , are still forward to deny what they are well able to prove . as for the papists amongst us , their mistakes in faith and worship are so gross and foul that if they would give themselves a little time to consider what has , and what may farther be said to convince them ; i do not doubt but all of them that are endued with a competent understanding , and an honest sense of things , would soon feel those palpable errors , into the belief and practise of which they have been hitherto deluded , by an unreasonable deference to the authority of the church of rome ; and no longer stand off from the communion of the church of england . the bigger any fault is , one would think , it should be more easily spied . now these men separate from us meerly because we have abandoned those wicked doctrines and practices , which are of themselves a most necessary cause of separation from any church in the world , that should impose them . and therefore they of all men are the most notorious schismaticks that can be imagined . and i beseech god to open their eyes to see it ; and to recover into the way of truth all such as have erred and are deceived ; that those who have hitherto been obstinate may prove all things , and that those who can be perswaded to consider these things , may hold fast that which is good . rom. . , . and the god of patience and consolation grant us to be like minded one towards another according to christ jesus . that we may with one mind and one mouth glorify god , even the father of our lord jesus . amen . finis . erata . page . line . for term read form. p. . l. . for cppear r. appear p. . l. . r. l cor. . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ad antonianum , ep. . ad cornclium , ep. . case on behalf of diss . p. . p. . p. . . p. . p. . & c. case on behalf of diss . p. . p. . p. . case . p. , . case in behalf of dissenters . p. . p. . p. . p. . preface to the liturgy . ad januarium . ep. . ep. . ad casulanum . ep. . ep. . ep. . lactant. lib . de origine erroris . sect. . thess . . . the protestant's answer to the catholick letter to the seeker, or, a vindication of the protestant's answer, to the seeker's request williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the protestant's answer to the catholick letter to the seeker, or, a vindication of the protestant's answer, to the seeker's request williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed and are to be sold by randal taylor ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . the "protestant's answer" is robert nelson's transubstantiation contrary to scripture. table of contents: p. [ ]-[ ] errata: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng n. n. -- catholic letter to the seeker. nelson, robert, - . -- transubstantiation contrary to scripture. catholic church -- controversial literature. transubstantiation. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the protestant's answer to the catholick letter to the seeker : or , a vindication of the protestant's answer , to the seeker's request . imprimatur , liber cui titulus , [ the protestant's answer to the catholick letter to the seeker , &c. ] h. maurice rr. in christo p. d. wilhelmo archiep. cant. à sacris . maii . . london , printed and are to be sold by randal taylor , near stationers-hall , m.dclxxxviii . the contents . the matter in debate stated p. . the sum of the protestant answer p. . transubstantiation confest by many of the church of rome not to be proved by scripture , pag. . joh. . . consider'd , p. . not for transubstantiation , by the confession of several in the church of rome , ibid. it 's also proved by several arguments . as that place had no special reference to the sacrament , p. . eating the flesh then spoken of , may be out of the sacrament as well as in it , ibid. proved to concern those present as well as others . p. . the sense of eating the flesh of christ proved to be figurative , p. . of figurative speeches , p. . particularly here , p. , &c. of christ's being a vine , &c. p. . the words , this is my body , considered , p. . of the word this , p. . of christ's being in the sacrament after a spiritual manner , ibid. the texts produced by protestants for it , p. . . the letter of scripture for the protestant doctrine , p. . ( . ) where it 's call'd bread , and the fruit of the vine . ( . ) the body of christ had the natural properties of a body , p. . ( . ) the body of christ is in heaven , and circumscribed , p. . ( . ) that christ's body is glorified , and so not a sacrifice , p. . . the words which are figurative , are for us , such are these , this is my body , ibid. the protestant's answer to the catholick letter to the seeker , &c. here 's a catholick letter to the seeker , or a reply to the protestant answer to the seeker . but what 's become of the seeker himself , for this four months past ? what of the declaration he was in the conclusion to make for the catholick faith of rome , which we are now told of ? that according to the method , it seems agreed on , he may , after sentence pass'd in this case , proceed to the infallibility of the church , or other points of faith in difference betwixt them and the church of england ; as our author intimates there a little too early . the seeker had indeed given reason enough to judg on which side he was to be satisfied : that tho seemingly he was sent out like the dove , to try where he might find rest for the sole of his foot , yet we may see beforehand , what was the ark he was to return to ; and that they were as sure of him , as they are of a convert before they offer a conference . where 's now the resolution he was to come to ? has the protestant answer to the seekers request , broke these measures , and forced them to think of another expedient ? our author cannot altogether dissemble it . it seems the seeker was to put certain ties upon his answerers , to which his friend on the side of the church of rome submitted , and it was humbly conceived the protestant answerer would have done so too , as our author signifies , p. . but he being a lover of liberty more than courtship ; and of truth , and reason more than both , took upon himself , as its thought , too much authority , when together with his answer to the seekers request , he wrote a reply to the catholick answer to the seekers request . this is a course our author complains of , and perhaps he has some reason for it . but what has he to accuse the protestant answerer of ? that he has evaded the question . as how ? of this he gives a threefold instance . . that he has used the word transubstantiation . of this our author thus complains , p. . and . i do not find the word transubstantiation , so much as mentioned in either your request , or my answer . wherefore , how sincere the gentleman has been in this particular , let the world judg . a material point ! who would not think now , that the word transubstantiation was abominated by him , and as little used in their church , as it is in ours ? it 's fit therefore to know our authors mind in it . of this he saith , it 's a word devised by the church to express the conversion that 's made in the sacrauent , — and which mysterious change the holy catholick [ the roman ] church doth properly call transubstantiation , p. , and . now , where is the fault ? where the insincerity ? the insincerity they may take to themselves ; but the fault is , that when they thought by the use of the phrase , real presence , common to both them and us , and by the forbearance of the word transubstantiation , which is peculiar to themselves , that they might have imposed upon the unwary reader , the protestant answerer used the word transubstantiation for their real presence , and so their design is discover'd , and in part defeated . . he saith , the protestant answerer evaded the question , when instead of speaking to the real presence , he betook himself to transubstantiation , p. . now , who would not think upon this charge , that his real presence and transubstantiation , are as inconsistent as truth and falshood ? here indeed he has put a question , which i confess i should have been ready to ask ; what 's this to the purpose ? is not the real presence and transubstantiation all as one ? p. . and i should be as ready to ask again , if they are all as one , how was the question evaded , when instead of speaking to the real presence , the answerer betook himself to transubstantiation ? in this , he thus acutely answers . no truly , they are not all as one , as you may think . for there is a great deal of difference betwixt a man , and the name by which he is distinguished . — 't is one thing to prove the real presence , and being of christs body and blood in the sacrament ; and another to shew , why this change is by the church call'd transubstantiation ; tho whoever believes the one , can't in truth deny the other . that is , the real presence and transubstantiation , are not all as one , because they are all as one : and the answerer has evaded the question , by using the one for the other , because whoever believes the one , can't in truth deny the other . . but he has not yet concluded the charge . for saith he , whereas the controversy is not about the word , the answerer has altogether banter'd at the word transubstantiation , and not spoken to the substance , p. . so before , the arians with as much reason might have objected against the word consubstantial ( which was devised against them ) as the protestant answerer has done , where p. . he says , that it 's enough for them to shew that transubstantiation is not taught in scripture , tho the being of christs body and blood in the sacrament is , — p. . if our author's skill in reasoning be no better than it appears to be in ecclesiastical history , his adversary has no great reason to fear him . that the word consubstantial was used against the arians , i acknowledg ; but that it was devised against them ( as our author saith ) is spoken at adventure . for the contrary is evident that it was in use long before in the christian church . so saith eusebius , we have known certain learned and famous bishops and writers among the ancients , who reasoning upon the divinity of the father and son , have used the word consubstantial , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but to return to the charge ; where is this controversy managed in the answer about this unscriptural word transubstantiation , which the protestant answerer altogether banter'd at ? he has found it out in somewhat that is not there ; i shall here set down the words of the answer , with his , and let 's see how they agree , cath. letter , p. . protestant answerer , p. . he [ the protestant answerer ] says , that 't is enough for them to shew that transubstantiation is not taught in scripture , tho the being of christs body and blood in the sacrament is . 't is enough for us to shew , that transubstantiation is not taught in scripture , and that those that pretend 't is there , cannot shew it ; nay , that the literal sense concludes not for it ; and that our notion of the real presence , is agreeable to it . where this author is guilty of a double perversion . first , that he translates what is spoken of transubstantiation in the notion , to the word ( when there is not a syllable that looks , that way ) and then , that he would represent the real presence in the protestant , that is a spiritual , sense , to be an acknowledgment of the being of christs body and blood in the sacrament , in their way . but after our author has for some pages entertain'd himself in managing this imaginary dispute against his adversary , yet in confutation of himself he finds out another sort of matter that he is obliged to consider , and if he can , to confute . the protestant answer consists of two parts . in the first , are considered the texts produced in the catholick answer to the seeker , to prove their real presence , which i hope i may now call transubstantiation . in the second , there is given a catalogue of such texts , as maintain the protestant doctrine of christs spiritual presence , and in confutation of the corporal presence held in the church of rome . and now let us view our author's undertaking , and see how he has quitted himself in both of these . part i. sect. we are to consider in the first place , how our author has vindicated his own answer to the seekers request , and what reply there is made to the objections and arguments directed against his pretended proofs from scripture . in the entrance upon this matter , the protestant answerer suggested , that the seeker had put an unreasonable task upon his catholick priests , to prove their real presence , or transubstantiation , by the express text , and plain word of god ; since persons of the greatest note ; for quality and learning , in their church , have freely given it up , and granted it to be a vain attempt . such as scotus and biel , among the schoolmen , and the cardinals , alliaco , fisher , cajetan and bellarmin . what saith our author to this ? first , saith he , supposing it was so as these authors say , that there is not one place of scripture so express , that without the determination of the church , it would evidently compel a man to receive transubstantiation . — yet the same might as well be said of the consubstantiality of the son , p. . will our author venture to say , there is no more from scripture to prove the consubstantiality of the son , than there is to prove transubstantiation ? or hath he any heart to say it , after the publishing the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared , and as long as that book lies unanswered ? but let that be as it will. what , saith he , is this to the being , or not being of the body and blood of christ in the sacrament ? had be produced scotus , bellarmin , &c. to disprove the real presence , it had been something , tho not to your purpose . for the request was to satisfie you by scripture only , and not by citing our modern divines , &c. but by the express text , &c. but i think it was to the purpose to shew that some of the most eminent in their church declare it is not to be proved in that way , and i think to declare it cannot be proved , is little better than to disprove it . at last our author is content to yield up scotus , one of his modern divines , and bellarmin ; and he adds , if what they have said in that matter , will do the gentleman a kindness , he shall have it not only from them , but all the faithful . if so , i fear our author then will be left alone ; for if all the faithful are of the same mind with scotus and bellarmin ; then his undertaking to prove transubstantiation by the express texts of scripture , will be a fruitless attempt . but we go too far , for that 's to be understood with a reserve , viz. scripture without the determination of the church is not so express , &c. this premised , our author cheerfully proceeds , that altho the scripture were never so plain , we would yet submit to the determination of the church , for the true sense and meaning thereof . so that tho he pleads scripture , and would fain find out somewhat that looks like an express text ; yet he doth it not , nor would be understood , that he thereby renounced the determination of the church . for whether the scripture be plain for it or not , is not the foot this matter rests upon ; and altho it were never so plain , yet the church is to give it the true meaning ; and whatever meaning the church gives it , that is the true meaning ; and so , if the church had determined against transubstantiation , as it has determined for it , there would have been still express texts , and the case had been alike resolved . sect . ii. at last we are come to the main seat of the controversie , p. . the catholick answerer had produced two places of scripture as his plain texts for transubstantiation ; the first is , joh. . . here the protestant answerer interposed , and first directed the seeker , where he might find about thirty writers of the roman church , who reject that text as not serving to our author's purpose , pag. . and then proceeds to shew for what reasons they and we do so reject it . arg. . as it had no special reference to the sacrament ; and that for two reasons : . because this discourse of our saviour was delivered above a year before , ver . . to this first our author replies , that the fourth verse , [ the passover , a feast of the jews , was nigh ] is no rule to shew the sacrament was not instituted above a year after . for , saith he , that this word nigh should signifie above a year after , is such a figure as never was : and so gravely repairs to his concordance to prove the word nigh is not by express and plain scripture to be taken for above a year after . certainly there was never more need of express and plain scripture , when men cannot look a chapter or two before them . for would any one that was conversant in the gospels , think that st. john here , and st. luke . . must needs speak of the same passover , because st. luke hath the same word , now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh , which is call'd the passover . i see our author wants here a little information . let him therefore turn to chap. . v. , & . and he will find a feast of tabernacles ; and go on to chap. . . and he will find another passover . now i hope i need not acquaint him that these two feasts of the tabernacles and passover were kept in different months , and that the same passover could not be before and after the feast of tabernacles ; and consequently , it must be a year betwixt the passover , joh. . . and that joh. . . and as much above a year betwixt our saviour's discourse , joh. . and the passover , as that was before the approaching passover that was said to be nigh . . the protestant answerer proceeded to shew that this discourse of our saviour had no special reference to the sacrament , because the eating the flesh , and drinking the blood here spoken of , might be out of the sacrament as well as in it , and at that present as well as a year after . this he proved from vers. , , , . in all which the present time is still spoken of , except ye eat . he that eateth . — my flesh is meat . to this our author replies : to say , that the flesh of christ may be eaten out of the sacrament , and even before it was instituted , &c. is indeed such a figure , as none but himself can unriddle , p. . i answer , but to say ( as he doth ) that christ would give us bread to eat in the sacrament , which should be the very same flesh which he would , and afterwards did give for the life of the world , that is , that he should give it before it was given , is a figure i doubt our author himself cannot unriddle ; who saith again , that before he gave it , 't was impossible for them to eat it ; but he gave it not , till he gave it on the cross. ( ) but to say that the flesh of christ here spoken of ( an exposition our author left out ) might be eaten out of the sacrament , as well as in it , is no riddle , if it be true . and it is true if our saviour spoke here of his flesh that might be , and was then to be eaten , at the same time as he spoke it , by all those that were then his present auditors ; as the answerer proved from verses , , &c. to this our author opposes vers . . the bread which i will give is my flesh , &c. where , saith he , christ promised , and told them before that be would ( in the future tense ) give them bread to eat , which should be the very same flesh , which he would , and afterwards did , give for the life of the world . whence he infers , if the bread which he in the sacrament gives us to eat , saying , take , eat , this is my body , be not that bread which he promised he would give us to eat , pray ask your protestant answerer , where , when , and how did christ give us bread to eat , which should be his flesh , if this be not ? pag. . what is a little out of its place , in our author , i have here laid together , that i may give it its full force : to this i answer : . i readily own with our author , that the words , i will give , contain a promise , but then we differ about the time when they were fulfilled . he saith , they refer to his last supper , when he took bread , &c. under the forms of bread and wine . but now if i am examined upon the where , the when , and the how , i should refer it to the cross ; and that because of the following words , the bread which i will give is my flesh , which i will give for the life of the world . for he gave not his flesh for the life of the world in the sacrament ▪ but after the institution of that , on the cross ; not under the forms of bread and wine , but in his own proper form , and visible to the spectators . the reason of his mistake seems to be , that he reads the future tense after this manner , our saviour told them that he would give them bread to eat , which should be his flesh. where he is guilty of two over-sights . first , that he applies that to the future which is spoken of the present , for he reads it should be his flesh , as if it was first bread , and then was to be flesh , to put the better colour upon their doctrine of transubstantiation ; whereas our saviour saith , the bread is my flesh , which is directly against it ; and if it signifies any thing of that nature , would rather prove that his flesh should be bread. for it 's not said , the bread which i will give shall be my flesh , but rather that which is my flesh , i will give to be bread. . he alters the terms of the text , for the words are , which i will give for the life of the world ; and he reads them , which i will give them to eat : as if the promise refer'd only to the bread which they should eat ; and not to the flesh which was to be given for the world . so that we see what 's like to become of his question , he prays his seeker to ask his protestant answerer , viz. where , when and how did christ give us bread to eat which should be his flesh , if this be it not in the sacrament ? for he must frame his question anew , if he would have it to the purpose ; and must read st. john again ( notwithstanding what he saith he has done on this occasion , pag . ) and whatever he found before , i am apt to think after this little light given to him , he will not find those words in this chapter , he would give them bread to eat , which should be his flesh. and if he reads the protestant answer again , he will find no occasion for those words , where , &c. if this be it not ? for the answerer did not except the sacrament , and say the eating the flesh , and drinking the blood here spoken of , could not be in the sacrament , but that it might be out of the sacrament as well as in it ; intimating thereby that it was not to be understood in a sense peculiar to the sacrament , but in a sense common to that and other offices of religion ; and that eating and drinking were ( as he shew'd ) but other words for coming and believing . . but our author has a further reserve , and offers at a peculiar exposition of those phrases , i suppose it's ( in his phrase . p. . ) his private meaning ● v. , &c. except ye eat , — he that eateth . not , saith he , that he did then give , or that they did then eat his flesh , and drink his blood , which they could not do before he took it , blessed it , brake it , and gave it . for at that time when he spake this , he only told them he would give it , and the eve before his passion , he performed it . and from that time i suppose the obligation bears force , ver . . except ye eat , &c. i will suppose that the present doth not here exclude the future , and that he that eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood hath eternal life , will always hold true , and what all ages as well as those then present would partake of ; but methinks it 's very hard to make the present exclude it self , and to tell us that they did not , and could not then eat the flesh of christ , when our saviour saith they might and ought , as is evident from what follows . let us go to the thing to be eaten , and it 's represented in the present tense , v. . this is the bread. v. . i am the bread. v. . is my flesh. v. . my flesh is meat . let us go to the act , and in correspondence to the object , it 's also in the present , v. . if any man eat . thus the jews understood it , v. . how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? and accordingly our saviour answers , v. . except ye eat , &c. ye have no life in you . he speaks it to those present , ye ; and then applies it universally , v. . whoso eateth my flesh , &c. let us go to the thing signified by eating and drinking , and it 's after the same manner , v. . he that cometh , and he that believeth , v. , , , . i shall conclude this with what was said in the protestant answer . if christ's flesh here spoken of , might be eaten , and his blood drank out of the sacrament , then it could not here be understood of that flesh and blood which our author saith the bread and wine are converted into in the sacrament ; nor , i may add , of carnal eating his flesh , and drinking his blood. our author resents this ill , for he saith , as to his carnal eating , we beg his pardon , if he means as we eat beef , and other meats . for that we truly and really receive the body and blood of christ ( to use his own words ) after an heavenly and spiritual manner ; we should agree , did we not differ in this , that they receive it in figure and fancy only , and we receive it in substance and truth , pag. . here i acknowledg i intended no hurt in the world , but thought i had exprest my self innocently enough . for when i had read in the catholick answer , that in the ▪ eucharist is truly , really , and substantially contained under the forms of bread and wine , the true body and blood of our lord jesus in the very substance wherein he was born of the virgin , and wherein he lived and died for us , with this difference only , that he was visible to the eye of flesh then , and invisible to the same now . i thought the word carnal was expressive of the thing , and indeed i find no great reason to alter it : for , . had i said metaphorically and figuratively , that by no means would suit what is corporal . and besides , i learn too from our author , pag. . that that is a deceitful , fictious manner . . had i said corporal , i see little distance betwixt that and carnal ; for as body and flesh is all one , so is corporal and carnal . . had i chosen the word spiritual , that 's a kind of contradiction , if applied to a body ; for spiritual eating of a body is little better than bodily eating of a spirit . and when a real presence by faith would not content them , if we deny a real presence by sense , seeker , pag. . i had as much reason to believe a spiritual eating would be no more allowed than a spiritual presence . . had i express'd it by heavenly , when it was somewhat eaten and drank corporally , and that what we took with the mouth was the very body of christ , it could not be sufficiently expressive of it . it was further urged , arg. . upon mature consideration of the whole , it appear'd to the protestant answerer , that the sense of eating the flesh of christ in this place must be figurative , and signifies no other than coming to christ , and believing in him ; which sure is out of the sacrament , as well as in it . and this indeed he proved from the promiscuous use of the words in that chapter ; but this our author conceals from his reader , that he might not too apparently contradict what he had said , pag. . that he says ( by no authority but his own ) that the sense of eating the flesh , must be figurative ; and right or wrong they are figurative , upon his own bare word , without scripture . but as the protestant answerer argued from the words and phrases of the chapter , so from the current of our saviour's discourse , that it could not be properly and literally understood . ( . ) because then all that properly eat the flesh of christ , would according to our saviour's promise , v. . have eternal life ; whoso eateth , &c. to this our author answers , very truel but with a qualification that recalls what he had granted . for it 's to be understood , saith he , of worthy receivers . but this is by no means consistent with our saviour's reasoning , which if the flesh to be eat , and the eating of it were to be understood properly , will necessarily infer the salvation of all such as thus eat after this manner ; as well unworthy as ●●worthy . since all that eat his flesh , and drink his blood , in the sense there meant , are the persons to whom eternal life is promised ; but if properly eating his flesh be the sense of our saviour's expressions there us'd , then we know what follows . . the protestant answerer urged further , that if the words eating the flesh , and drinking the blood , be properly to be understood , then the receiving the sacrament in both kinds will be necessary to salvation ; it being affirmed , v. . except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you ; and he shewed that for this reason , amongst others , cardinal cajetan would not admit that this discourse of our saviour belong'd to the eucharist . what saith our author to this ? truly nothing . as to this , saith he , of both kinds , it doth not properly relate either to your request , or my answer . a reply that may be made in any case . he goes on , and besides , i do not see where the necessity lies of defining the sacrament in both kinds to one that believes ▪ it in neither . that is , as much as to say , i beg his pardon , i will not vouchsafe an answer to such an one as he is ; but however , methinks he might have said somewhat , if it had been only for the satisfaction of the distressed seeker , to whom he writes his letter ; to let him see that there is no consequence in this argument . it puzled cardinal cajetan , a man of sense and sagacity ; and surely the seeker may then be led away by the error of it , and it may put off his declaration for the catholick faith four months longer . but there is no danger , it was not necessary to one that doth not believe ; but he declares he is ready to satisfie his seeker , that is , one that doth believe , as we may conceive . i know not whether this may not have put our author a little out of humour , for he cannot but abhor , he saith , to see men mould gods word into what form they please , and make every thing a figure , that doth not square with their fancy . is it because our saviour spake some things by way of parable , that all he said was such ? or that he never spake otherwise ? how comes it that mean capacities are ( by the church of st. martin's ) left to themselves , to judg of the true sense of scripture , according to d. t. who tells you in his true account of a conference , that a man after using all christian means , and the help of all ministerial guides possible , must at last judg for himself . — a special assertion indeed ! which if true , what need of teachers ? &c. pag. ▪ but how doth he mould the word of god into what form he pleases , that understands that figuratively which was figuratively spoken ? and to whom doth our author speak when he thus expostulates , is it because our saviour spake some things by way of parable , that all he said was such ? had he no other way to get clear of his adversary , but to fix this upon him ? and had he no other way to meet with those that plead for the perspicuity of scripture , but to tell the world , that they own our saviour never spake otherwise than in parables ? how mean and ridiculous is this ? but however this was a fair occasion as he thought to make a special remarque upon the doctrine taught by the church of st. martin's . now here the protestant answerer is more immediately concerned as a parishioner ( though one of the mean capacities there taught ) and would fain see how our author would manage himself in a debate upon that argument ; especially when after his exclamation against it , he himself is forced to acknowledg the reasonableness of it . for if a man must not at last judg for himself ; or if so , that there will be no need of teachers ; then it 's in vain to send answers and letters to a seeker , and to propose texts to his examination : and yet in this special way doth our author proceed from the beginning to the end of his letter . he leaves it to his seeker to pass sentence upon what has been said by either party , pag. . whether , saith he , this hath any reference , be you the judg. pag. , . he desires him to consult the words , and see whether those texts do imply , &c. pag. . seriously to distinguish and peruse the texts , pag. . so that it seems this special assertion ought to be one of his own , who teaches his seeker so far , after the same way as mean capacities are taught by the church at st. martin ' s. to come to a close of this argument ; the protestant answerer the better to represent his adversaries weakness in decrying figures and parables , shewed him how this discourse of our saviour so abounded in them , that there were no less than twenty expressions of that kind in it ; and accordingly drew out several of them for our author to try his skill upon , and to resolve them without a figure , pag. . first , saith he , let the catholick answerer tell me without a figure , what is that meat which endures to everlasting life ? here our author labours hard to prove that the meat in v. . is the bread and flesh , v. . and concludes , which flesh , without a figure , i humbly conceive is that meat which endureth unto everlasting life . but i as humbly conceive he has not reach'd the point ; for granting the meat , the bread , and the flesh to be one and the same , yet how is the flesh of christ bread and meat without a metaphor , when it 's only spiritually and not corporally eaten , as he saith , and when neither capable of digestion , nor we of nourishment by it ? again , if this be eaten only in the sacrament , how can it under the form of bread endure to everlasting life , or how can it be meat that thus endures , when it is not to be eaten in heaven , and all sacraments and institutions cease ? the other questions were . how the son was sealed by the father ? how jesus is bread , and the bread that came down from heaven ? how the bread and the flesh of christ could be the same ? v. . and if the same , how it could come from heaven , when he was of the seed of david , according to the flesh ? how one of his church can talk of a literal sense of , [ except ye drink his blood ] , which denies the cup to the laity ? to all these our author returns a general answer , as to his , how the son was sealed by the father , and the rest of his how 's ? they are such jewish expressions , as that all christian pretenders ought to be ashamed of them . so the jews said , v. . how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? so jewish it is to question god , how he could do it ? how this ? how that ? and so he runs on to the creation , and incarnation , &c. i am a little at a loss here , to what cause our authors mistake is to be assign'd ? surely he could not but understand that the how relates not to the manner , how these things be ? but , how these things could be thus applied to our saviour without a figure ? i am afraid that he saw the difficulty , and so slipt away from it ; for else , why should he answer directly to the first query , which would more plausibly bear it ; and indirectly and fraudulently to the rest ? and yet , as if he had to a demonstration proved what he had undertaken , and effectually confuted his adversary , he will still have the words express and plain , without a figure . for thus he concludes , p. . if these express and plain words of christ be a figure , where he says as plain , as plain can be , that he would give us bread to eat , which should be his flesh , [ but which i have shewed before , he did not say . ] i say , if these words are figurative , and must not be properly understood , i see no reasen , why the whole bible should not be a figure too . for if ever christ was plain in any thing , 't was in this ; especially in a point , wherein there was never more occasion to expound , if a figure , than when the jews ( to whom he came ) murmured and said , how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? and when some of the disciples said it was an hard saying , and thereupon walked no more with him . he that , in cases of less moment always explain'd his parables , should yet be dark and figurative in this of that importance , and which he well foresaw , occasions our differences at this day ; it would be contrary to his wisdom and goodness . but so far was christ from this , that he confirms it , v. . with a verily , verily , except ye eat the flesh , &c. i have transcribed this the more at large , because it contains some things very peculiar , and is indeed the utmost force of what he hath for his defence . i answer to this . . in general , it 's manifest , that our saviour is not literally plain ; since it 's acknowledg'd that his discourse is figurative , from ver . . to ver . . and is it not strange , that when he had so long discours'd after that manner , that yet in one verse , he should mean literally , and which if literally understood , would be so manifest a contradiction to the sense and reason of mankind , that if he had literally said he was bread , he could not have more astonished them , than when he said , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , &c. if properly and literally to be understood . . whereas he saith our saviour always explain'd his parables ; that is too largely spoken . for even those , which he chuses out of mark . , , , were not expounded to the multitude ; and if his argument signify any thing , must therefore be properly understood by them . but why did not he propound the case in dispute , and give us a like instance in figurative and metaphorical expressions ; such as our saviour uses in this chapter ? for , are sealing , hungring , &c. to be understood properly , because it 's not said , that they are to be understood figuratively ▪ nay , are eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , to be understood properly ? then certainly , the capernaits were in the right , that thought our saviour spoke of carnal eating , which yet our author will not allow . . he saith , there was never more occasion to expound , if a figure , than when the jews murmured , and some of his disciples went away ; and what he saw , occasions our differences . ( . ) as for the murmuring of the jews , there was no such occasion for our saviour's expounding it ; for thus also they murmured , because that christ said , i am the bread that came down from heaven , v. . and yet , tho he took notice of it , ver . . he thought not himself concerned to explain his meaning , where there might be more reason for their mistake , than there could be in this . indeed our saviour look'd upon them as an obstinate and intractable sort of people , and so did purposely conceal himself often , as was observed before , mark . and this we are not without some light in , in the case before us . for this discourse of his , was in the synagogue , v. . and they were the same people that before were offended and cavilled , ver . , . and therefore our saviour left them in the dark , tho afterwards , when his disciples murmured , v. , , . he tells them , it was spiritually to be understood . ( . ) as for those disciples , it doth not appear , that they walked no more with him , because they were offended at his saying , ( for that he explain'd it to them ) but because he gave an intimation that he discovered their insincerity , v. . there are some of you that believe not ; and it follows , from that time many of his disciples went back , &c. ( . ) neither was there any such occasion for our saviour's expounding himself from our differences ; if he had meant it properly , i grant there could never be more occasion , because it 's a doctrine so contrary to the sense and reason of mankind ; but when it 's not so explain'd , the sense and reason of mankind may be thought a sufficient security against mistake . and there might be as much reason for our saviour to expound himself , when he saith , he is bread , a door , a vine , a rock . but all this while , our author supposes our saviour not to have explain'd himself . i grant it , he did not do it on their side ; but i think he has done it to all attentive and unprejudiced minds ; if they will either consult the foregoing part of this discourse , where he speaks of himself , under the allusions of bread and flesh , v. , , , . and of believing in him under the the metaphors of coming and eating , v. , , , , , , . or if they consult the conclusion , v. . where he tells his offended disciples , it 's the spirit that quickneth , &c. as if he had said , the eating my flesh , and drinking my blood , which i propound to you , is not as those cavilling jews did misconstrue it ; and as you , i perceive , mistake ; for in that flesh , i am to ascend into heaven ; but it 's the heeding and obeying my precepts , the receiving my doctrine , and believing in me as your redeemer , that i require , and you are to regard . and indeed , thus st. peter understood him , who concludes almost in the same words , lord , to whom shall we go ? thou hast the words of eternal life . and we believe , &c. v. , . . he saith , that christ was so far from meaning otherwise than plainly , as he spake , that to the murmuring jews he confirms it , v. . with a verily , verily , i say unto you , except , &c. whereas in parables be explained himself to them . that is , our saviour meant plainly , because he did not explain himself . but , saith he , he confirmed it . what did he confirm ? did he confirm the literal sense ? that he did not before give , and so could not confirm . or doth the repetition of it without explication shew it to be the literal sense ? that he contends for . but then by parity of reason our saviour meant properly , when he said , i am the door . for it 's there said in confirmation of what was before : verily , verily , i say unto you , i am the door , joh. . , . but why did our saviour repeat it ? without doubt to shew that he spoke it not inconsiderately ; and if i add , to explain what he before said , it 's not without somewhat in the text to countenance it . for before he spoke of himself under the notion of flesh , v. , . but then of flesh and blood , to intimate both the violence and manner of his death ; which he did usually speak with more caution and reserve about . if we reflect upon what has been said , we see how unwarily ( i am loth to add more ) our author delivers himself , when he saith , if these words are figurative , i see no reason why the whole bible should not be a figure too . and if ever christ was plain in any thing , it was in this . and , which i cannot recite without some indignation ; should he explain himself in matters of less weight , and yet be dark in this great concern , is what would be contrary to his wisdom and goodness , p. , . so that there shall be no sense or perspicuity in scripture , nor wisdom and goodness in our saviour , if their doctrine be not his , and he be not of the same mind with them . indeed after all our author's confidence in this matter , and his questioning all things , if this be questioned : he determines that which the greatest authority in his church , the council of trent , would not determine . for when it had been sharply debated for and against these words being understood of the eucharist , it was at last agreed for the satisfaction of both sides , neither to affirm nor deny it , and to yield to those that deni'd it , that they had fathers and doctors on their side . and thus the council concludes ; however that discourse ( of our saviour's , joh. . ) be understood according to the divers interpretations of the holy fathers and doctors , sess . c. . here our author takes a great leap from pag. . of the answer , to pag. . but because it 's not amiss , i shall follow him : the protestant answerer put it to them to give as plain letter of scripture to prove christ was neither a door , rock , nor vine , as he could that he was all three : or that all christians are not turn'd into christ's natural body , when it 's said ephes. . . we are members of his body . this he did to shew that the phrases , eating the flesh , and , this is my body , were not of themselves sufficient to enforce us to take them in a proper sense ; since it 's no more plainly said , except ye eat the flesh , &c. and , this is my body ; than it 's said , i am the door , the vine , &c. now what course doth our author take to assoil this ? let 's see , saith he , whether the parity 'twixt i am the door , the vine , &c. be the same with , the bread is my flesh , and , this is my body , without ever explaining a syllable to the contrary . here he is a little too forward . for he is to remember that the thing requir'd is to give as plain scripture to prove that christ was neither a door , nor vine , &c. as there is for it . he knows who said it , i will prove the catholick doctrine of the real presence , and i defie the world to prove the contrary . cath. answ. to the seeker , pag. . and that declares again , it 's impossible to bring one text out of the whole bible to prove that the body and blood of christ is not in the sacrament , cath. letter , pag. . if now he so expects , then it may be so expected from him , that he should prove the negative , and that by as plain a text he should shew christ is not a door or vine , as we can shew that he is . i must confess i put him upon a ridiculous task , but who can help it , it 's in his own way . but to leave this trifling , let us return to see his parity ; though i doubt we shan't much better our selves . as for the door , he saith , the text tells us it was a parable , joh. . . this parable spake jesus . wherefore if the protestant answerer would be so kind , as to produce plain scripture for this of the sacrament's being a figure , as i have done for the door 's being a parable , he 'l certainly gain a proselyte of me . as for gaining him a proselyte by plain scripture , i have reason to despair , who declares beforehand that though the scripture were never so plain , he would yet submit to thi determination of the church , pag. . but where is this plain scripture for the door 's being a parable ? he points to the verse . but what was the parable he spoke ? it 's in the verses foregoing about a door , i grant ; but not of christ's being the door ; for that follows after , ver. . then said jesus unto them again , verily , verily , i am the door . so that if he keeps to his own way without explaining a syllable , he is where he was , and christ may be as properly a door , as we may properly eat the flesh of christ. he goes on : in like manner of the vine , christ saith , joh. . . i am the true vine , and my father is the husbandman , as mat. . . when he likened the kingdom of heaven to an housholder ; and so goes on explaining the same , ver . . as the branch cannot , &c. which if you read the chapter , you 'l find to be more plain . i perceive he is very serious , and i am of his mind , if the seeker read on , he would find it plain , that christ is not properly a vine , and so say i , if he reads joh. . he would find it as plain , that eating the flesh of christ is not properly to be understood . but if words will oblige us without attending the sense , and we must take them as we find them without explaining a syllable , then i say still it 's as plainly said , i am the true vine , as my flesh is meat indeed ; and according to our author's way of exposition , this can be no parable . for , saith he , you 'l find in all cases christ spake not by parables without telling them it was so , pag. . but here it 's not so said ; for as before , so after the words , v. . as the branch , &c. he saith , v. . i am the vine . he goes on : in like manner of the rcck , that he was the corner-stone , upon which the foundation was laid , &c. but how doth he prove christ was not properly a rock according to his own way ? because , saith he , he is a corner-stone , and a foundation , which is just as if he had been asked , how he would prove , without explaining a syllable , christ is not properly a corner-stone , or a foundation ; and he should say , because he is a rock . but what saith he to the last instance , to prove as plainly , christians are not turned into christ's natural body , when it 's said we are members of his body , ephes. . ? to this an answer is to be expected . well , after all his windings and turnings , his parities , and without explainings , and his reading , and his in like manners , and his rules for understanding parables , the words are as plain and express that christ is a door , a vine , a rock , and we are members of christ's body , as they are that we eat the flesh of christ ; and if one be properly to be understood , there is as much reason from the meer words for the like understanding the other . after this digression , our author undertakes the last argument of the protestant answerer , viz. arg. . here is nothing of the conversion of the bread into the body of christ ; but rather the contrary ; for if the words are literally to be understood , then they would rather infer the conversion of christ's flesh and blood into bread and wine , when he saith , i am the bread of life , v. . my flesh is meat ( or bread ) indeed . as to the first , which is the conversion of the bread into the body of christ , and the chief thing proposed to him , he hath silently past it over ; perhaps he saw here also no necessity of defining or proving it to one that believes it not . but to make up this defect he gives his adversary a grave reprimend , that when he had just before said , that these words had no special reference to the sacrament , he should now so apply them , by an odd way of shufflng . and why did he not as sharply admonish him for offering to shew that the words might infer the conversion of christ's flesh into bread ? for both alike belonged to him . our author it seems apprehended not all this was argumentum ad hominem . but how doth he clear the point , and shew they infer no such conversion ? first he saith , for proof whereof , [ that christ's flesh is not turn'd into bread ] let us go to the words of conversion , this is my body . but , methinks , it would have better became him to have first proved the conversion of the bread into flesh from these words . as for st. john , he grants that had the words been , my flesh is bread indeed , as his adversary would fain have them , then he would have something on his side . but if that be the sense of it , and the words bread and meat are used by our saviour promiscuously ; then it 's so far acknowledged . and for that i shall refer our author to v. , . but he will not allow v. . to look that way , nor indeed will i. but yet they will as soon prove christ turned into bread , as the words the bread that i will give is my flesh , will prove the bread turn'd into his flesh ; which they so little do , that they rather would imply the contrary , if understood literally , as i have shewed pag. but he concludes , rather than differ , i 'le joyn in opinion with the protestant answerer , and these other divines , and with him and them submit to the determination of the church . but where is this the opinion of the protestant answerer ? surely our author is like him in aristotle , that where ever he went , fancied he saw himself . but what need is there to go to the church in this case ? for i hope he will think sense and reason sufficient to instruct men whether those words will prove that christ was turned into bread : and we think sense and reason as sufficient to inform them whether the words of our saviour will prove that bread was turn'd into christ's flesh. i now thought this matter had been at an end , when the protestant answerer past from this argument to the second text. but our author has not yet done with him . for he tells us , there is one argument yet , on which the gentleman seems much to depend ( pag. . ) when he says , since if christ be not , but where he intirely is , then ( says he ) he must be eaten intirely , &c. from whence he concludes the not being of christ's body in the sacrament , because ( as he conceives ) he is not there intire , for reasons ( not scripture ) of his own , p. . bless me ! thought i , where am i now ? in the land of oberon ? what shall i say ? he quotes pag. . i hastily turn'd thither , and there i was satisfied my memory had not yet forsaken me . the case is thus , the answerer , as is before observed , to shew the absurdity of our author's appealing to the mere letter , put several queries to him out of this chapter , which he desired him to resolve in his own way , without going to figures . the last of which was this , how he can literally interpret , ver . . [ he that eateth me ] that holds in the eucharist is contained the true body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of our lord jesus christ. — since if christ be not but where he intirely is , then he must be eaten intirely . this question amongst others was there drop'd by our author ; and the reason is apparent , for he must either have acknowledged that the words he that eateth me , must be understood figuratively and spiritually , and not corporally : or else that the soul and divinity of christ must be eaten with his body : or that the soul and divinity of christ are not in the eucharist with his body . the case , i confess , is hard to one that has somewhat else to respect than truth ; and therefore it became him to be silent . but why he should now bring it on the stage under another guise , i can't imagin , when thus to resume it , and pervert it , must as much expose his insincerity as the omission of it before , did his inability to answer it . the reader will see that the argument and the conclusion are none of the answerer's ; for that proposition , where ever christ is , there he intirely is , is a principle of our author's , and which is there made use of against him that profess'd to believe with the same faith he believes a god , that in the eucharist is truly and substantially contained the true body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of our lord jesus christ , cath. answ. to seeker , p. . and where our author found the conclusion . i know not , for there is nothing in the protestant answer like to this , that from thence concludes the not being of christ's body in the sacrament , because he is not there intire . however it may not be amiss to see how our author relieves himself : saith he ; to which , i answer and grant , that christ is not , but where he is intire . and whether christ who is perfect god , may not be intire in the sacrament , and in many places at one and the same time , is the query ? which if fully resolved , will overthr●w all his reasoning ware besides ? well , how will he prove christ intirely in the sacrament ? that is , the true body of christ with the soul and divinity . that was forgot before , and so is not to be remembred ; but if it may be accepted for a full and intire answer , he will prove his body may be intire in many places at one and the same time . what he saith of that , belongs to another place , and shall there be considered , p. . but what is this to his soul and divinity ; and to the literal sense of he that eateth me , and the argument the answerer prest upon him ? he will be able to answer it , when he can prove his proposition , that christ is not , but where he is intire ; for then his body must be omnipresent as well as his divinity , which after all the may be 's , and his attempts to prove it possible for christ's body to be in many places at one and the same time , i suppose he will have no allowance to publish , if he should have the imprudence to maintain . sect . iii. we are at length come to his second text to prove his real presence , viz. this is my body . here the protestant answerer shew'd how absurd the direction of the seeker was , that his answerers should produce their texts , without troubling themselves to tell the meaning on 't , because he was certain that the doctrine of transubstantiation could never be the literal meaning of those words . as for example , saith he , where is there one word , that the [ this ] whatever it means , is the true body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of christ , in the self-same substance wherein he was born of the virgin ? where that this true body and blood is truly , really and substantially contained under the forms of bread and wine ? where that the bread and wine are upon consecration turned into the true body and blood of christ ? let us see how our author replies to this , p. . let us note his where 's . where , says he , is there one word ? where that this true body and blood ? where that the bread and wine are upon consecration , turn'd into the true body and blood of christ , &c. which truly , are where 's indeed ? but what 's become of the soul and divinity of christ ? what of the self-same substance wherein he was born of the virgin ? what of the true body , truly , really , and substantially contain'd under the forms of bread and wine ? which are what he profess'd firmly and truly to believe by the same faith he believes a god ? and where ( to add another where ) will he find these literally in the words , this is my body ? he tells us one would think that so many where 's were not without a wherefore . and because the gentleman desires to know the where , he shall also know the when. certainly now to the confutation of scotus and biel , &c. and the confusion of all hereticks , we shall have a plain discovery , and that in so many words we shall find the true body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of christ , &c. for this go we to his when jesus took bread , &c. and said , this is my body , mat. . . then it was , saith he , and , here it is by power of these words of god , this is my body , that the bread is turned into the body of christ. this is indeed a submission to the seeker 's direction to produce the words without a meaning , and it is so because it is so ; this is my body , doth turn the bread into the body , because there are the words , this is my body . i hope the reader is satisfied , for in truth i am . the next thing proposed by the prot. answerer was , what the meaning is of this , in , this is my body ? if , saith he , it be bread , then the bread is in the literal sense , the substance of christ's body , and so overthrows the change to be made in transubstantiation . if by this , is not meant the bread , then the bread could never be turned into the body of christ by vertue of the words , this is my body . our author readily answers , ask the question , what ? and our saviour will resolve you , mat. . . this is ( what ? ) my body , he did not say , after he had blessed it , say , take , eat , this is bread , but my body ; than which , nothing can be more plain , than that it was his body . and to make all sure , he seriously proves it , because it 's not hic , but hoc est panis . it 's well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the greek is of the same gender with panis . but let us admit of this learned criticism ( though by the way let me observe for our author's instruction , when the article relates to the sentence , it 's to be put in the neuter gender ) the difficulty put , yet remains ; for if the this relates to body , then the sense is , this body is my body . but saith he , let us suppose this to refer to bread , it yet follows that it is his body . but it follows also , as the answerer argued , that then the bread is the substance of christ's body , according to the letter ; and so could not be turned into it . so that our author has left the difficulty as he found it . but because the answerer here said , we have not faith to believe that reason the scripture hath not taught , he very subtilly argues after this manner : from whence , saith he , i gather , that notwithstanding all his arguments to disprove the real presence , yet he hath not faith ( though face ) to deny it . for that pag. . he tells you that besides their positive articles , they have a great many negative ones , [ and the answerer tells you , for which we are beholden to the corruptions and innovations of the church of rome ] &c. for that he hath not faith to believe , what the scripture hath not taught , that in the eucharist is not contain'd the body of christ. the gentleman therefore can have no faith to deny it . a very quaint argument ; which i shall dismiss with a parallel instance . he that hath not faith to believe that which the scripture hath not taught , hath not faith to deny that to be of faith which the scripture doth not teach : and therefore because mahometism is not taught in scripture , he hath not faith to deny it . but this spirit of acuteness doth not last long , for having labour'd to find inconsistencies in the doctrine of the church of england as set down in the answer , he blunders without end . he allows what our church saith , that the body of christ is eaten in the sacrament after an heavenly and spiritual manner ; but he adds , but this we believe to be a true and real manner , not a deceitful , figurative , or fictitious manner . — if you grant it after a spiritual manner , you must grant it there after a true manner . if christ be there in spirit , he is also there in truth ; and if there in spirit and truth , all my arguments are granted . i think not ; for the church of england saith , it 's only after an heavenly and spiritual manner . so that though they do agree , where christ is in spirit , he is there in truth ; yet i doubt me the word only alters the case , for he may be there in spirit and in truth , and yet not be corporally there . and i question whether any thing less will satisfie our author ; and so it appears ; for , saith he , christ is there after such an intire , real and substantial manner , as we believe , or he is in no manner there at all , p. , . part ii. sect. . having thus considered the texts produced by the catholick answer to the seeker , and shew'd how little they serve their cause ; i shall proceed to the second part , and that is to vindicate the texts produced in the protestant answer , from the exceptions of our author . here our author sets his texts against those of the protestant ; but it would have done well if he had first set down what it is he should prove on his own side , viz. that in the eucharist is truly , really and substantially contained , under the forms of bread and wine , the true body and blood , together with the soul and divinity of christ in the same substance wherein he was born of the virgin , and wherein he lived and died for us ; and this by the conversion of the whole bread into the body , and the wine into the blood of christ. if this had been done , how meanly would it have look'd ▪ though he brought his texts to prove it ? and surely he could not then have had the confidence to have said , as he now doth , i doubt not but it appears that the texts brought on the catholick [ roman ] side are abundantly plain and sufficient for the being of christ's body in the sacrament , as thus set down . and it would doubtless have been some gratification to his reader , if he had given us a paraphrase as his adversary had done , according to these his sentiments . but here he saith that the answerer pretends not to prove by these texts that the body and blood of christ are not in the sacrament , p. why so ? because it 's one of their negative articles , and to require plain and express words of scripture to prove such a thing is not there taught , is , says he , to demand a proof , the thing is not capable of . — as if suppose there was not express words of scripture to confute arianism , therefore that could not be confuted by scripture . it 's enough that what is not in scripture is no article of faith ; it 's enough that there are such propositions in scripture as are sufficient to refute it , though there should not be express words . but however if he will take it in the words of our article , and if it may be to his content , we shall find it positively said that transubstantiation is repugnant to the plain words of scripture . and we have our author acknowledging that his adversary undertakes to shew that the protestants have the letter of scripture for them , meaning ( as he saith ) that in the sacrament is not contained the body of christ , p. . and now let us try whether the answerer did not give them more than his bare word for it ; in the use he made of his own quotations . as he observed from thence . sect . ii. . that it 's no contradiction to our saviour's manner of speaking , to interpret these words figuratively , since our author after all his exclamations of giving christ the lie , is forced ( tho here he slips over it ) elsewhere to acknowledg that the cup , yea and the word bread , is so used , p. . . that in many instances the letter of scripture is for us : as , arg. . that there is no substantial change in the elements , but they remain the same bread and wine after consecration as before . so it 's five times call'd bread , cor. . , &c. and the whole solemnity is call'd breaking of bread , act. . . to this our author replies several ways , as , by the word bread , saith he , is meant the communion of the body of christ , as by the word cup is signified the communion of the blood of christ , p. . but to this i answer , . that if the words bread and cup are not to be understood literally , but with a thereby is meant , and thereby is signified , then there is no more reason from the bare words to understand , this is my body literally : and that it may be as well interpreted , this is the representation , and sign of my body , as this bread is the communion of my body . . from hence it follows , that if the bread be the communion of the body of christ , as the cup is the communion of the blood of christ , then the bread is no more changed than the cup ; but as the cup remains the cup , so the bread remains the bread in the communion . . if the bread be the communion of the body of christ , then the communion of the body of christ is in the communion of the bread ; and so the bread is still bread. . our author has not touched the point , which was to shew the letter of scripture is for us , when it calls it bread after consecration . but he saith , saint paul mentions not the words , cup and bread , but he explains them to be the body and blood of christ , cor. . . as often as ye eat this bread , ye do shew the lords death , which was not shewn , but by offering up his true and real body and blood. i answer , so we may better say he mentions not the body of christ , but he explains it , when he five times afterwards calls it bread : but how doth the shewing of the death of christ prove the bread to be his body , when it rather proves it not to be his body , because his body is not , according to them , visible , and to be shewn ? he saith further , how could they be guilty of the body and blood of the lord , v. . if the body and blood be not there ? i answer , as persons may be guilty of it out of the sacrament : thus we read heb. . . who crucifie to themselves the son of god afresh . and chap. . . who trod under foot the blood of the covenant . and so by unworthy receiving of the lords supper , in which his death was commemorated and represented , they after the same manner were by interpretation guilty of the body and blood of the lord. and this the next ver . . shews , not discerning the lords body ; which can be understood only of a spiritual discerning by faith. or rather as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies , discriminating . lastly , he adds , 't would be hard a sinner should be damn'd meerly for moderate eating and drinking wine ; for according to the protestant answerer , the sacrament is no more , who tells you , p. . there is no other substance distributed among the communicants , than that of bread and wine . . but if our author had gone three or four lines further , he would have found those words , pag. . the body of christ is not otherwise present than it is eaten , that is , after an heavenly and spiritual manner , in the spiritual blessings and effects of his merits and sufferings in his body , to those that believe . so that he prevaricates , when he saith , sinners are damn'd meerly for moderate eating and drinking , and that we esteem the sacrament no more . . we look upon it as a divine institution , and by virtue of that institution a means of grace ; and that by a worthy participation of it , we partake of that grace which is thereto promised , therein exhibited , and thereby conveighed , as it 's there declared , p. . and consequently the damnation threatned is to the contempt of god's ordinance , and of the sufferings of christ therein represented , and of the grace of god purchased by those sufferings , and therein to be obtained . the answerer shew'd , also as the bread , so the wine was without alteration , from mat. . . who after he had said , this is my blood , calls it the fruit of the vine . and from the order in st. mark . , . where the apostles are said to have drank of it , before our saviour said , this is my blood. this branch of the argument our author divides from the other , and casts it forward three or four pages , pag. . for it gave too much light to the other , whilst they were together . as to the former text , i will not drink of the fruit of the vine , he saith , st. luke gives the plainest order of it , chap. . . and that there it has relation to the paschal cup. i grant , that in st. luke it more immediately is joyn'd to the paschal feast , but yet in st. matthew and mark , christ is said to have spoke these words after the delivery of the cup in the lords-supper . and the least that can be observed from hence is , that it was indifferently to be applied to either ; and so it more strongly argues that it was alike to be understood [ that the wine in the eucharistical cup was the natural fruit of the vine , as that in the paschal ] as that the substance of both was one and the same , and no more change in the one than the other . but , suppose this , yet , saith he , the meaning of these words could in no wise be applied to the substance of wine proceeding from an earthly vine ; but to the substance of his blood , the fruit of the heavenly vine , for that it was to be drank new with them in his father's kingdom , which is heaven , where they neither keep taverns , nor drink wine , &c. some persons while they charge others with irreverence , themselves seem to have lost all due reverence for holy things . we will suppose , in favour of our author , that by the kingdom of god our saviour means heaven , and by the fruit of the vine , he means the substance of christ's blood ; yet how will it follow that it 's the same fruit of the vine they drink of in heaven as they drank of in the sacrament ; since the blood of christ is no more drank in heaven , than wine ; nor is the sacrament any more administred there , than the passover ? so that if by the kingdom of god , heaven is to be understood , then the phrase , till i drink it new , signifies mystically and figuratively according to the manner of scripture , which sets forth the happiness of that state by eating , mat. . . luk. . . and the excellency and perfection of it by the word new , revel . . , &c. and so the meaning is , i shall not henceforth thus eat with you ; the next festival i shall observe , will be in heaven ; there we that have now thus eat and drank together , shall partake of the felicity of that state ; and this fruit of the earthly vine shall be exchanged for rivers of heavenly pleasures , which we shall there be entertained with . the next thing observed by the answerer in proof of the substance of the wine continuing so after consecration , was from the order observed in st. mark . . where it 's said the disciples drank of the wine , before our saviour said , this is my blood. here our author thinks himself excus'd from an answer , because of an error in the press , body being put for blood. but if he turned to the text , he might see that place was quoted right , and common sense would serve to rectifie it . however he courteously offers somewhat in the mean time , by way of answer , viz. whether st. mark expresseth the words in the same order as they were spoken or no , it matters not ; seeing he has the substance of what was said , and wherein they all agree ; to wit , that it was his blood. and it 's also apparent that christ first gave thanks , and blessed it , before he gave it , &c. pag. . but doth it not matter whether st. mark expresseth the words in order ? certainly if the order he recites it in , were the order observed by our saviour , and that the apostles received the cup , and drank of the wine before the words of conversion ( as they call them ) were used , then it follows ( as the answerer argued ) that they only drank of the substance of the wine , and that the words , this is my blood , could not signifie , and much less produce a conversion of the wine into the blood of christ. this our-author was sensible of , and therefore in his answer left out the main part of it . for what tho all the evangelists agree that the words , this is my blood ; were then used by our saviour ? what though christ first gave thanks , and blessed it , before he gave it , if he did not also use the words of conversion , before he gave it ? for all the rest he might do , and yet the wine be wine still ( as they own . ) but thus it was , if st. mark is right in the order , and it seems to be the proper order , because he only speaks of the particular , that they all drank of it . but we are not to have any thing to the purpose till ( as he saith ) the bill be amended , and that i take for his best answer . arg. . the protestant answerer shewed the letter of scripture is for us , that our saviour's body had the natural and inseparable properties of a body , such as extension , circumscription , &c. p. . here our author calls in the faith of a christian , and the almighty power of god to his succour ; and looks upon the answerer as a second didymus , because he will , like him , not believe except he sees ; and worse than him , who saw but the humanity , yet believed the divinity of christ , p. . but why all this , when he believes all the scripture teaches , and reason it self justifies ? may not a man believe , unless he believes contrary to what he himself sees , and the scripture teaches ? or why is he worse than thomas , when thomas would not believe unless he saw ? but the answerer is one of those ( thanks be to god ) whom our saviour pronounced blessed , that have not seen , and yet have believed . what is there he would have him believe ? it is what was never put to thomas , for our saviour convinced him by an ocular demonstration , joh. . . reach hither thy finger , and behold , &c. as much as if he had said , the resurrection is real , for it 's a real body that is before thee ; and it 's my body , for reach hither thy finger , &c. it 's plain our saviour here thought he gave an unquestionable proof of the truth of his resurrection by shewing his body to thomas , which could not have been , had not his body had the properties of an human body , without which it could not have been a body ; or which if it had been without , thomas could not have been convinced in that way , that it was his body . but our author here undertakes to prove , that this was not the condition of our saviour's body ; or , that he could by his power separate these essential properties of a body from his body . here i must confess my self indebted to him for an answer to what he offered to this purpose before , but not to the purpose of the argument there , and here repeats . pray , saith he , how was his body to be seen , extended , finite , and circumscribed , when he pass'd through walls and doors that were close ? john . . he entred the room , the doors being shut . — how came he through ? was his body intire , extended , finite , and circumscribed with limbs , bones , and sinews ? — such is the infinite power of god , that though they were inclosed in walls every where a mile thick , 't would yet be possible for christ to enter intire through all , p. . here is one thing omitted , and that is to prove , that as the doors were shut , when they assembled , for fear of the jews ( as the evangelist saith ) so they were not opened by christ , when he came and stood in the midst of them ; till which be proved , we shall say the letter of scripture is for us , and that christ's body had flesh and bones , might be beheld and felt , and did neither come through the walls , nor indeed could do , so long as it remains true that the penetration of dimensions is impossible . but i had need to recal this ; for i am for ever silenced if what he saith be true , that the answerer argues perfidiously of christ , as if he were not god , not distinguishing betweeen his glorious body and ours ; for as god , all things are possible to him . but where is that perfidiousness , since no more is denied to christ , than is to god ? for because all things are possible to god , doth he think that it 's perfidious to say , that it 's not possible for god to be ignorant or unfaithful , or circumscrib'd , and so to exist after the manner of a body ? or doth he think it 's perfidious to say , it 's impossible to make the body of christ to have been existent in different times , and really to have been existent before it was existent , and yet not to be existent till it was ? or is it perfidious to say , it 's impossible to make the circumscribed body of christ to be omnipresent ? the last he seems to affirm by his often repeated maxim , that christ is not but where he is intire , and placing therein the difference between christ's glorious body and ours . but of that more anon . our author , as he would prove the body of christ might lose all the properties of a body , so also that it might be contained under the forms of bread and wine , that is , to all appearance it might have all the properties of those elements , and yet be none of them , but the body of christ alone . and this he reasons upon , after this manner , where is the difficulty to believe but this may be , as the holy ghost under the form of a dove , with feather , beak , wing , and all the properties of a fowl ? or in the form of tongues of fire ? both which to our eyes were but as a perfect dove , and as perfect tongues ; yet those different objects to the eye of flesh , were but one holy ghost to the eye of faith. therefore nothing can be more plain than that objects may be one thing to the eye of flesh , and another thing to the eye of faith. so in the sacrament , to our sight and tast is plain bread and wine , but to our faith ( in gods word ) it is the real and intire body and blood of christ. an instance and inference not at all to the purpose . for the question is not , whether a spiritual being may not be under the appearance of a body ? for so it was with the angels when they appeared as men , and the holy ghost when it appeared like a dove . neither is the question , whether an object may be one thing to the eye of flesh , and another to the eye of faith ? for so our saviour appear'd to be man , and yet was god as well as man. all which yet is besides the matter , for in these cases there is an invisible being under a visible representation , or an invisible being in union to a visible . but here are two objects visible in their own nature , viz. the body of christ , and bread ; and the one of these so turn'd into the other , that there are all the properties of a visible being , which is not there , viz. bread ; and none of the properties of that visible being which is there , viz. the body of christ. so that the question should be thus propos'd , whether what is an object of sense , may have all the properties of another sensible object , without being that thing which they are the properties of ; and none of the properties belonging to its own nature and being ? arg. . the protestant answerer shew'd , that the letter of scripture is for us , that the body of christ as it ascended , so is to continue in heaven till the conclusion of the world ; and so cannot be in heaven and earth at the same time . this our author calls a barren conceit ; but as barren as it is , it is true , and has scripture and reason on its side , notwithstanding what he has objected to the contrary . the first argument he offers in answer to this is , that he is a perfect and omnipotent-god . and that he may be , and yet not reconcile contradictions ( as has been just before shewed . ) he confirms it by scripture , mat. . . c. . . where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am i in the midst of them . and if there , he is there intire , or not at all , p. . & . but when christ promised to be in the midst of them , did he promise to be there corporally ? if bodily , i would fain know under what form he is there ? and if he be intire where ever he is , and yet he is every where as god , then the body of christ must be as omnipresent as his divinity ; and so there would be no need , nor indeed possibility of his descending . he adds , our saviour is not so confined in heaven , as that he cannot also be upon earth ; for we read that he descended and overthrew saul in the way to damascus , and spoke to him , act. . . and he may be actually present without being seen , for the men with saul saw no man , v. . by all which it 's plain , that christ may be in earth , and in many places at the same time , as well as in heaven . but to this i answer , ( . ) it 's not certain that the apostle saw , or that christ appeared to his fleshly eye . for elsewhere he is said to see him in a trance , act. . . and here v. . to fall on the earth ; and so god is said to be seen , when yet there was no similitude , exod. . . deut. . . ( . ) if he was seen bodily , yet it 's not said , as our author would have it , that he descended , and was bodily present . but it might be as with st. stephen , who looked up to heaven , and saw jesus standing on the right hand of god , act. . . and so here v. . it 's said , that there shined round about ( st. paul ) a light from heaven . ( . ) much less is there so much as any intimation of what our author saith , that christ was bodily in heaven and the earth at the same time . for if he was in in the one , it 's certain he was not bodily in the other . and this our author unwittingly acknowledges , when he saith christ descended and overthrew saul . so vigilius tapsitanus , when the body of christ was in the earth , it was not in heaven ; and now because it is in heaven , 't is not in the earth . arg. . the answerer argued on , that the letter is for us , that christ was but once offered as a propitiatory sacrifice , &c. that his body is glorified and so not to be offer'd , heb. . , &c. but to this our author has made no reply . sect . iii. from hence the prot. answerer proceeded to shew , that as the letter of scripture is for us , so are the words which are figurative , as in those , this is my body , p. . the method was here orderly and distinct , but our author runs one into another . i shall gather up what he saith as well as i can . the arguments by which the answerer proved those words to be figurative , are as followeth . arg. . from the word this , which if to be understood of the bread , bellarmine grants , then the word body must be figuratively understood . and that it was the bread , at least in conjunction with the other acts relating to it , the answerer shew'd , which our author le ts pass . arg. . the answerer argues , if the words are to be understood literally and properly , when these words were said by our saviour , then the body would be broken , before it was broken . to this our author answers , ( . ) p. . though his natural body be there , yet the manner of it's being is spiritual and sacramental , and the manner of its breaking follows the manner of its being ; his body is there broken in the sign , not the substance . i answer , that to speak of a body's being after the manner of a spirit , is as much as to say on the contrary , a spirit exists after the manner of a body : that is , that body may be a spirit , and a spirit a body . . if the body be in the manner of its being only spiritual and sacramental , and the breaking in the manner of its breaking be only spiritually , then why not the body be only spiritual and sacramental ? or why should we any more profess our selves jews or infidels ( as he would have it ) to doubt , whether , nay to affirm , what christ said was improper and metaphorical , when we say , this is my body is to be understood figuratively and spiritually , than it 's to say ( as he doth ) it 's broken spiritually ; since , as the answerer observ'd it 's as well said , this is broken , as this is my body : and our author saith , the manner of its being and breaking , are spiritual and sacramental , mystical and representative ? . but this is besides the case ; for the question is not about the manner of breaking , but how christ could say , this is broken ( if not figuratively understood ) before it was broken . but to this we are to expect an answer . but he adds ▪ ( . ) moreover these words [ which is broken ] do prove ( as the holy catholick church always did , and ever will hold ) it to be a true , proper sacrifice ; for the being broken , explains the nature of a sacrifice , which imports the destruction of the thing offered , if corruptible and liable to destruction : but the body of christ being incorruptible and immortal , can't be really hurt , therefore the manner of breaking , is only mystical and representative . setting aside that what he saith concerning the catholick church , is spoken gratis , i answer , if the nature of a sacrifice imports the destruction of the thing offered , if corruptible and liable to destruction , then the body of christ must have been destroy'd ( if a proper sacrifice ) before it was destroy'd ; for the body of christ ( when christ spoke these words , this is my body ) was certainly liable to destruction . and so he has fastned the objection , instead of answering it . ( . ) he concludes , if this manner of breaking , pleases not the gentleman ( as in truth it doth not , and he has now given his reasons for it ) let us see whether the body of christ were not otherwise broke before he instituted the sacrament . now his body was pierced , and blood spilt at his circumcision , followed by unspeakable pains , restless labours , &c. what his agony in the garden ? what his being crowned with thorns and bloody whipping at the pillar ? — wherefore with truth our saviour might have said of his body [ which is broke ] without supposing any thing improper or untrue . . what doth our author mean when he saith he would see , whether the body of christ were not otherwise broken before he instituted the sacrament : and instances in his agony in the garden , his crowning with thorns , and whipping ? doth he think these were before the sacrament ? . if this was the meaning of our saviour , when he said , this is my body which is broken , that he was circumcised , and in an agony , &c. then where is the sacrifice , which he saith , imparts the destruction of the thing ? which these things were neither literally nor mystically . arg. . the answerer urged , that jesus himself then took the bread , &c. when he said , this is my body , and yet jesus had at that time a body which was not broken , &c. no not so much as mystically . so that the same body was whole and broken . here our author is silent . arg. . he argued from the words , do this in remembrance of me , which supposes absence ; and therefore an institution set up in remembrance , and yet in which the body was to be actually present , is to suppose the body to be absent and present at the same time . to this he answers . . that those words no way relate to the laity , who only receive the sacrament , but to the priests , who consecrate and administer , for it 's no where said , this eat , this take , this receive , but , this do. a. . if this be so , then there is no command to the people to receive . . to whom did the apostle write his epistle , but to laity as well as priests . . surely he did not read cor. . . where the apostle saith , take , eat , this is my body . this do ; what ? but , take , eat ; so v. . this do ye , as oft as ye drink it in remembrance of me . this do : what ? but , drink this . but after all , what is this to the argument ? for whether these words were spoke to the laity or priests , relates not to the case ; but the question is , whether remembrance of persons , is in its true notion consistent with presence ? to this he answers , the seeker unanswerably observed , that the remembrance of its being , doth no way make it cease to be . a wise observation ! but what then ? doth it not suppose the absence of the thing ? this he saith is a weak piece of sophistry , as if , saith he , my remembrance of your being with me , when present , did any wise suppose your absence from me . but i thought , with the rest of mankind , that remembrance and sight are as distinct in their notion , as absence and presence ; and that i may as well see what is absent , as remember what is present : what is present we see and know , but what is unseen and absent , we remember . after all , we see that the author has left no rule to direct a true seeker to , no guide to direct him , no arguments to settle his wavering mind ; and if there be not a better rule , guide , or arguments than he has offered toward his conviction , there is no help for it , but the seeker must live and dye a seeker . it 's impossible to convince a man that has sense and reason , that he must not use them , and that whatever use they may be of in temporal matters , they ought to be of none in religion : and he that will undertake this difficult task , must either prove he doth not contradict himself when he will shew and refer him to the letter of scripture , and wish him to use his eyes to see it , and his reason to judg of it ; or else he must prove that both parts of a contradiction may be true . and having brought our author hither , i may safely leave him , and conclude his argument , together . finis . errata . pag. . lin . . for seeker pag. . [ seeker pag. . ] with braces . p. . l. . for whe r. where . advertisement . transubstantiation contrary to scripture ; or the protestant's answer to the seeker's request . an apology for the pulpits ; being in answer to a late book , intituled , good advice to the pulpits . together with an appendix , containing a defence of dr. tenison's sermon about alms ; in a letter to the author of this apology . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e cath. letter to a seeker , p. . and . eccl. hist. l. . c. . part. . sect. . sect. . sect. . part . sect. . sect. . the perfection of the evangelical revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, jan. , / , being the first of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the perfection of the evangelical revelation a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, jan. , / , being the first of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill, senr. & junr. ..., london : mdcxcvi [ ] includes half-title page. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- galatians i, - -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the perfection of the evangelical revelation . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , jan. . / . being the first of the lecture for this present year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . mdcxcvi . gal. i. , . though we , or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel unto you , than that which we have preached unto you , let him be accursed . as we said before , so say i now again , if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed . the people of the jews having been all along trained up under the law of moses , and by virtue of it possess'd of peculiar advantages beyond any other nation , were apt to think it as lasting in its obligation , as divine in its original ; and that it was no more in the intention of almighty god to have it abolished , than it could be disproved to have come immediately from him . this made them slow and backward to receive the gospel , by which their ancient constitution would be disannulled ; and after they had believed , it made them inclinable to hearken to such sophisters , as pretended to compound the controversy , and to join moses and christ , the law and the gospel together , so as to be both alike necessary to salvation : which is in effect to set up another gospel than what the apostle had taught , and they had received from him ; and therefore he expresses his resentment and indignation against it with the highest aggravations , verses , , . i marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of christ , unto another gospel ; which is not another ; but there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the gospel of christ : but though we , or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel unto you , than that which we have preached unto you , let him be accursed , &c. in discoursing upon which words : i shall consider , . what is understood by the gospel , which the apostle had preached , and they had received . . what by another gospel , against which and the preachers of it , the apostle so sharply inveighs , and pronounces an anathema . . i shall shew that the gospel is the only revelation from god ; and that there is not another , nor is any other to be expected . . the gospel is here opposed to the law of moses , which there were some in the churches of galatia , as well as in other places , that would maintain to be necessary to salvation , if not alone , yet in conjunction with the gospel ( as aforesaid ) . these two indeed were so far consistent , that the law was a prefiguration , a shadow and type of the gospel : but being thus a shadow and a type of it , that in reason and from the nature of the thing , was to give way , when the substance came on , and the types were fulfilled . and therefore though the law was established at the first by divine authority , yet in course was it to cease in its obligation , when the reason of it ceased . and consequently , to plead for its authority and obligation , whether in conjunction with , or opposition to the gospel , was to say that the substance of those shadows , the completion of those types , was not accomplished , that jesus was not the messiah , nor the gospel true . in this sense these two that in a state of subordination were consistent , by this means were made to be opposites to each other . so the apostle , chap. . . if ye be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . v. . — ye are fallen from grace ; ye at the same time deny what you seem to confess ; it is a perverting the gospel of christ , and establishing another gospel . but this is only a kind of a negative account of the gospel ; therefore we are to proceed further in the consideration of it ; and then we are to understand by the gospel , the christian religion , and more especially that part of it which is called christian , and for which the professors of it are called christians , as distinguished from all religons besides . all mankind are not more of the same common nature , than they generally agree in the common principles of nature : and that which is natural to all , cannot be a character by which one man is distinguished from another . but when a man or institution is called christian , it is for somewhat peculiar , and distinct from that which is common to all . and therefore though the law of nature be a branch of the christian religion , as it was of the mosaical , and is also in it self of a never failing obligation ; yet there is a supervenient institution , and somewhat besides that which denominates us to be christians , without the belief and practice of which , we can no more be entitled to to that character , than that can be called a natural religion which excludes , or is contradictory to the laws of nature , and the just reason of mankind . and of the number of such principles , which are necessary to the constitution of christianity , and consequently to the character of a christian , and are the articles of his faith , are the incarnation and nativity , the death and resurrection and glorification of our saviour . . his nativity and incarnation . so john . , . he that denieth that jesus christ is come in the flesh , is not of god. . his death , as he died for mankind , and was a sacrifice for sin. so st. paul , cor. . , , . i declare unto you the gospel , which also ye have heard , and wherein ye stand , by which also ye are saved . for i delivered unto you first of all that which i also received , how that christ died for our sins according to the scriptures . so that to believe in jesus as the messiah , and as a suffering messiah , was according to the scriptures , and by the belief of which we are to be saved . . his resurrection , and what was consequent upon it , his glorification , the reward of his humiliation . in which state he is constituted our mediator . from the connexion betwixt which two , his death and intercession , it is , that we seldom read in scripture of the one without the other . these are constituent and essential articles of christianity ; and if these , or any of these are omitted , as it is not christianity which is left , and it would be another gospel ; so it is what the apostle's anathema will be applicable to . from whence we may be able to answer the next question . . what is to be understood by another gospel ? when the apostle speaks here of another gospel , he thereby means somewhat that is added to it , and with it made necessary to salvation , as it was when the observation of the law of moses was maintained to be as obligatory to the christians , as ever it had been to the jews . from which case , by a parity of reason we may argue , that whatever alters the terms and conditions of the gospel , and makes that necessary to salvation which the gospel has not made necessary ; or that unnecessary which the gospel has made necessary , is such a perverting it as makes it another gospel : for that is to set up that as a divine revelation , which hath not the divine authority to confirm it . for it is god alone that can appoint the terms of salvation ; and so , what no man , or society of men , has any authority in , to frame , alter or revoke . the necessary articles of faith , and instances of our duty , must have a divine establishment ; and so what we must learn either from the invariable principles and dictates of human nature , or pure revelation . . that is another gospel which pretends to a revelation from god for its authority , when it is of human invention or imagination : and that whether for the matter of it , it be true , or false . it may for the matter of it be true , and yet not be a revelation , but proceed only from men ; and then to place that to the account of revelation , though it be for the matter of it true , is a notorious falshood and imposture . but if for the matter of it , it be false , it 's a double falshood ; as it pretends to a revelation , which is not revelation , and also calls in the veracity of god to give testimony to a falsehood . supposing then that the immaculate conception of the virgin mary , transubstantiation and purgatory are true , yet to plead a revelation for them , as it is pleaded in the church of rome * , if there were no such revelation , doth fix such an indelible blot upon the pretended infallible church , as all the water of tiber cannot cleanse . but if it should prove false ( as those things certainly are ) then it is to add a sort of blasphemy to the imposture , as it makes the god of truth to justify a falshood . . that is another gospel , which doth establish another rule , or adds to , or detracts from that which is established , rev. . . now the scripture is the rule of faith and practice ; and then to alter the rule , by adding to it , or taking from it , is to alter the gospel ( which that contains the revelation of ) as they do in the church of rome , who not only add the apocrypha to the canon ; but , as the pharisees ▪ of old , give the same authority to unwritten tradition , as to the scripture ; and require it to be received with the like pious regard , according to the council of trent . lastly , to alter , to add to , or diminish from the fundamental articles or principles of it , is to make it another gospel ; as it is to deny christ to be a mediator , or to appoint other mediators than him , such as angels and saints . by so doing , the gospel is rendred as imperfect , and the scripture as an imperfect revelation of it . but this there is no occasion for , as i shall now shew by proving , that . the gospel , or revelation , made known to the world by jesus christ , is always to continue th e same ; and no new , or other revelation is to be expected . this was the sum of the last lecture , and is to be the remaining subject of this . there have been such , in several ages of the church , both anciently , and of late , that have pretended to new revelations ; and that there was a more perfect dispensation to ensue , than what was contained in the gospel . of this opinion were the montanists of old ; and of this mind seems to have been abbas joachim , who flourished about the year . and what was also expresly maintained in the evangelium aeternum , or everlasting gospel , chiefly taken out of the works of joachim , and published by the mendicant fryars about . wherein it was affirmed , * that the doctrine of that abbot excelled that of christ : * that the gospel of christ was to give way to another gospel , called the everlasting gospel ; or gospel of the holy ghost . and this was a doctrine spread far and near , among the beguardi in germany , the alumbrados in spain , and the fratricelli in italy , &c. the spawn of which continued for a long season in several parts , and in some till ann. dom. ▪ who all agreed , that their doctrine came from god by as immediate inspiration as ever the gospel of christ did . i deny not , but that there may be some particular revelation or inspiration , with respect to some especial case : but as it may arise , for ought we know , from imagination , so if it be not attended with great caution and circumspection , may end in the whims and frenzies of a brigit , a catharina , or a mother juliana , and what not ? nay , it may proceed to the disannulling the gospel it self , and to the preferring their own inspirations ( as they will have it ) above it . but supposing it to be true , that there may be now some particular inspirations from god in such special cases ; yet it is to be supposed that they are agreeable to the gospel revelation ; but if once they contradict it , it can be no more a true revelation , than the gospel can be false ; and yet such must be a revelation that will make the gospel to cease in its obligation , and to be of no more authority to mankind , than the law of moses . when the obligation arises not from the nature of the thing , but from positive institution , it is in the power of the lawgiver to bind or loose , to establish or evacuate a law as he thinks fit . and thus it was in the law of moses , which consisted of things typical , that had a special reference to that people , and the place of their habitation , &c. such were the distribution of the tribes , the preservation of their genealogies , their three great festivals , their sabbatical year , and year of jubile , &c. of this temporary nature also were the ceremonies of the law , which either had a relation to the customs of the nations conterminous to them ; or to a more perfect state that was in process of time to succeed it . the laws relating to which could not be supposed to be of any force , when they were excluded that land , and the tribes were lost and confounded ; no more than the laws relating to the wilderness and the tabernable , could oblige them when they were setled in canaan , and that they had a temple erected there . and therefore the phrase for ▪ ever , when annexed to the constitution , must have a laxer interpretation accordingly allowed , which was , that it should continue to oblige ( as it follows often where that phrase is used ) throughout their generations ; that is , whilst they were that people , so embodied , and so situated . and had the gospel consisted of such things that were thus mutable in themselves , or thus peculiar to any people , time , or place ; there might be reason to admit it to be temporary ; and to be evacuated when time should serve , as the law was ; but there is nothing either in the nature of the thing , nor is there any notification of the divine will concerning any time set for its expiration ; but rather the contrary ; and so there is not the same reason for a new dispensation after the evangelical , as there was for the evangelical after the mosaical . i grant that it is as possible in it self for god to reveal himself at some time hereafter , as it was for him to have revealed himself heretofore : and he that revealed himself under the law , and at the first institution of the gospel , may , if he so please , after the same manner reveal himself at any time , or times . but he that will assert the futurity of this , must have more to prove it than a possibility . it is certain god has revealed himself , and that the gospel was by revelation from him : but there is not the like certainty for a revelation after the gospel , or in after-times of the gospel , as there is , that the gospel it self was of divine revelation . it is certain that the gospel has been the only revelation for above years past , and that we have had no other revelation than that contained in the scripture : and therefore whatever pretences any persons or age made to it , were apparently mistakes and impostures ; for that dispensation of the holy ghost , which each sect fancied to be in their age , or near to it , is yet to come , if ever it is to be . but to give some further light and force to this argument , i shall shew , . that there is no proof of any other revelation , than the gospel of our saviour , and now recorded and preserved in the holy scripture . . that there is no need of any further revelation . . that the scripture shuts up all revelation with it self , so that no other revelation is to be expected beyond it . . there is no proof of any other revelation , than what is contained in the scripture . if any one will contend , that there either is , or shall be such a revelation , he must have some revelation to prove it : and that must either be an antecedent revelation , such as scripture is taken to be ; or it must be some personal revelation , made to himself , or to some other credible person or persons . but where is the revelation of this revelation ? if it be to be found in scripture , where is the prediction of such a state , that the gospel shall be superannuated , and another of greater perfection shall grow out of it ? under the law there was a plain signification of another revelation to be in the time of the messiah ; and of a more perfect state of things to ensue . but where are the proofs as plain under the gospel for a new revelation , as there were for that of the gospel under the law ? or where is it said of that , as it is of the law , that it decayeth , or is antiquated , and waxeth old , and so is ready to , or shall at last , vanish away ? our apostle here saith on the contrary , if we , or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel unto you , than that which we have preached unto you , let him be accursed . if it be a personal revelation , then we may reasonably demand , where is the evidence for such a revelation ? all revelation must have a sufficient evidence ; and if it be a true revelation , and what obliges us to receive it as such , it will be able to produce its evidence . and a new revelation must suppose a better sort of evidence than the former , or at least equal to it . there must be the like wonderful works ; the blind must as miraculously be made to see , and the lame to walk , and the diseased to be whole , and the dead to rise . nay , christ himself must again descend from heaven , and dye , and rise , and ascend ; or else the miracles will fall short of what it is in competition with . nay , it must proceed farther , and its evidence must not only be equal , but superior also to that which it is to supplant . it was not only fit that moses's rod should be turn'd into a serpent , but when the magicians pretended to do the same , to shew his power to be greater than theirs , his serpentine rod swallowed up theirs . it was not enough that he brought forth frogs , when jannes and jambres produced the like ; but that he should do what they could not , and so what would oblige them to acknowledge it to be the finger of god. and thus our saviour being to advance a new scheme of things , did not only shew he was the person described , and prophesied of ; but also by his numerous miracles , and many of them such as never any , neither moses , nor any prophetical person , ever did work . if then there be no such evidence for such a new revelation , ( where there is a pretence to it ) we may conclude it to be another gospel , a supposititious revelation , and what is to have no credence given to it , no regard paid to it . it 's anathema . . there is no need of any further revelation . revelation has somewhat in it of a miracle ; it is a way extraordinary ; and as we cannot suppose god will work miracles , and break through the standing laws of nature , when there is no occasion for it , nor necessity to require it ; so we cannot suppose he will communicate himself by a way of revelation , and immediate inspiration , and much less break down an established order of his own appointment , when there is as much reason for the continuance of it , as for the institution ; and that it answers all the ends for which a new constitution can be framed , or a new revelation made . the apostle argues , if the first covenant had been faultless , there should no place have been sought for the second : and if there be a place for a third , there must be some fault or imperfection chargeable upon the second . but that i shall shew it to be freed from ; and that the second covenant or gospel-revelation is so perfect , that there is no need of another . for , ( . ) there can be no more noble and useful subject for a revelation , than that of the gospel , which is concerning god's reconciliation to mankind , and their redemption by the death of his son. and where this is plainly revealed , there is no place for a second , nor any need of a new revelation . ( . ) if we consider the gospel-revelation as a covenant , consisting of promises and conditions ; there cannot be more excellent and beneficial than those , nor more necessary than these . for what can be proposed of greater advantage unto mankind , than what the gospel offers to those that believe and obey it ? it is no less than the favour of god , the blessing and protection of his providence , the assistance of his spirit , and in the close of all , everlasting life , a translation out of this mortal , uncomfortable , and uncertain state , to a state of unchangeable happiness ; where body and soul shall again be united , when this corruptible shall put on incorruption , and this mortal shall put on immortality . an encouragement that is the highest cordial that can work upon humane nature , and will ( if any consideration can ) qualify the troubles of this present life , and set a man above the fears of an exclusion out of it . and when this is promised , there can nothing be offer'd beyond it ; nor is there any need to find out others after this is proposed . and such as the promises are , such are the conditions required of us , which are as unchangeable as the reward : those indeed are unchangeable from the divine declaration , and god's faithfulness ; but these are unchangeable from the nature of the things , as well as the divine command . so that there is no room for another revelation , unless we can change the nature of things , and make evil good , and good evil ; and put darkness for light , and light for darkness ; unless we will dissolve all order , and confound all relations , and set the creature loose from all obligations of love , and gratitude , and service to the creator . terms surely uncapable of abatement or alteration . for who can suppose mankind should be left at liberty , whether they would love god , or neglect him ; whether obey , or violate his laws ; whether they would be vertuous or vicious ; and whether they would believe in jesus , and own him to be their saviour ; or , with the jews , reject him , and not have him to reign over them ? alter the promises and conditions , and there is another gospel , and another revelation ; but till they are altered , or alterable , there needs no new revelation . all the abatements or relaxations that can be allowed , are inserted into the body of this revelation ; where there is a two fold allowance ; an allowance of remission for whatever sins are past , and truly repented of ; and an allowance for humane infirmities under the strictest obligations to our duty . and lower than these the gospel doth not , nor for the reason before given , can descend ; since then it would countenance impenitence , and establish iniquity by a law ; and then indeed it had been an imperfect , a defective , a faulty covenant , and there would have been a place for a new. ( . ) the extent of this law , or new covenant , is such as none can exceed it ; for it is as much fitted for the whole race of mankind , as any could be for any particular nation . the law of moses was a law to the jews , suited to their temper and circumstances in its original frame and constitution ▪ and so what other nations , as nations , could not come within the benefit of ; nor could particular persons , otherwise than as they became proselytes , and made themselves subject to it by the same way of initiation in circumcision . and it is of the nature of all humane laws ( though the general lines running through them are one and the same ) that they are fitted for the immediate use and service of that people , whose laws they are ; and which therefore vary infinitely , and alter as circumstances alter , and as reasons of state require . but now the gospel-dispensation comprehends in it all nations , and they are all to that as if they were but one people . it was our saviour's commission to his apostles after his resurrection , go ye into all the world , and preach the gospel to every creature . and such as the commission was , such were the rules and precepts they were to give and publish , which were of universal concernment and obligation ; and neither confined by persons nor places , by times nor circumstances , but what all persons , in all places , times and circumstances , are equally obliged to observe ; and which are of that nature , and have such a tendency to the good welfare and happiness of mankind , whether alone , or in society , whether as particular persons , or families , or nations ; that if exactly observed , purity , and peace , and love would every where abound , and the earth be a kind of paradise again . and therefore , if there be any narrowness of mind , and feuds among mankind , if vice and wickedness overflow the world , it is not for want of a law every way perfect to bind and restrain them ; or that there need another gospel to mend them ; but for the reason given by st. james , — from their lusts that war in their members . ( . ) if we consider the evidence given to the gospel-revelation , we shall find there needs no other evidence to be given to that revelation ; nor that there needs any other revelation for want for want of evidence in this . our saviour's life was a life of miracles as well as innocence ; and where ever he went , the divine power went along with him ; for in him dwelt the fulness of the godhead bodily . and which he exerted where ▪ ever he came , and as occasion served , to the confusion , if not the convicton or conversion of his adversaries ; and all which at last concluded in his own resurrection from the dead , his ascension into heaven , and the effusion of the holy ghost , which began on pentecost , but like a torrent ran on through the apostolical age , and bore down all manner of competition . and what then can any revelation pretend to beyond it ? or where can there be any that can be suppos'd to produce the like evidence for its veracity ? ( as i have just before observ'd . ) lastly , how can we have a gospel that can pretend to vye with that which the son of god came into the world to reveal , who was the last that was to come from heaven ; and when our faith is that which was once delivered to the saints . once for all ; and so there is no more another faith or revelation to be expected after that , than another mediator after him , who was once offered to bear the sins of many . this leads to the third branch . . the scripture shuts up all with this revelation ; and because we have now no revelation but that written revelation , we cannot suppose any revelation beyond it , and much less derogatory to it ; or that shall direct us to any other way by which we are to be saved , than that we have already received , and is therein recorded . i have before observed , that the time from our blessed saviour's appearance , and the publication of the gospel by him ( to his second coming ) is called the last days in scripture , and consequently has none to succeed it . so the apostle , as it is appointed unto men once to die , but after this the judgment : so christ was once offered to bear the sins of many ; and unto them that look for him , shall he appear the second time ; without a sin-offering , unto salvation . that is , as there is no alteration in the state from death unto judgment , but as men dye , so they will appear to be at judgment : so there is no alteration to be between christ's first appearing , when he offered himself ; and his second , when he shall so come in like manner as he was seen to go into heaven . if therefore there is to be any alteration as to this revelation , it is not to be before , but must be after our saviour's second appearance . but of that we have nothing to say . thus far as i have consider'd the argument , there may be very few supposed to be concerned ; that is , such as set up another revelation in opposition to the gospel-revelation ; or that maintain the revelation of the gospel to be only temporary , and that it shall have its season in which it is to expire , and be succeeded by another . and it may seem to be scarcely worth the while to have spent so much time upon it with respect to such wild enthusiasts as have been , and still are in the world. but however , what has been hitherto said , may be of further use with reference to another case , just mentioned before , and that is the case of personal and occasional revelation ; which may be conceived only to serve to a more spiritual manifestation of the revelation already received , and so be no more derogatory to that revelation , than occasional or personal revelation heretofore in the mosaical state was to the body of that law which was of immediate and divine revelation , and of universal obligation to that people . i would not altogether deny this ; because i know not how far some persons may in some cases be enlightned by a spirit of prophecy ; nor what particular directions they may receive in an extraordinary way in some special cases with ●espect to themselves , to others , and the church of god ; which may be like a special providence to some particular persons . but now as a man must govern himself by the general rules of divine providence , and not by particular ; and because he has sometimes met with deliverances , and supplies , and directions beyond all his own foresight and reasoning , must not forsake his own reasoning and care , and wholly rely upon the extraordinary : so it is to be here ; a person may perhaps have some occasional revelation , some divine inspiration , at some special season , or in some special case ; but if he forsakes the ordinary to depend upon the extraordinary , and expects revelation in every case , because he has had it in some particulars , he will as much be subject to error , and err no less dangerously , than if he wholly relied upon divine providence , and forsook all other means whatsoever . and truly this is a way much liable to be abused , and to mislead persons , and is very suspicious and dangerous . . it is a case liable to imposture and abuse , forasmuch as those that are under the influence of such a conception , are not always , if at all , capable of making a certain judgment of it . for it is all transacted within , and the imagination may be so much influenced by the body , and by an agitation of the humours and animal spirits , from an enthusiastal and even a devout temper , by prepossessions and foreconceived principles , and even by the circumstances of life , that it may be wholly natural ; as natural as dreams , or the deliriums of a fever , which proceed from the ebullition of the blood , and such like ordinary causes . . persons have been imposed upon , and taken the effect of imagination for inspiration and divine illumination . i am far from condemning all the instances of this kind , of hypocrisy , and of a design to deceive , like maria visitationis in portugal . i will rather think more charitably , that very often they have thought themselves thus moved and acted by the spirit of god : and yet notwithstanding all their pretences , and the opinion others have had of them , it has been afterwards evident , that it has been far from being a divine infusion and illumination . what shall we think of teresa , whose life is full of her visions and revelations ; and of whom we are told by one of that way , that besides many other extatical sights in the kingdom of heaven , she often had the sight and company of the holy trinity , of each person in particular , that they spoke to her , and she to them ; and used to ask , and did obtain particular favours of each . — that god shew'd her how all creatures are contained in his divine essence , as in a chrystal glass , and that she saw therein the thoughts words , and deeds of all men . this ( and truly she had reason to think so ) she said was one of the greatest favours to her . now if we would but alter the place , and for the nunnery conceive her to be in a hospital , we should take it to be , what that author in a transport sometimes calls it , a phrenzy . and what a legend of dreams would the world be furnished with , if the visions and revelations of this kind were bundl'd up together , as the miracles of reputed saints have sometimes been ? . they are very much to be suspected of imposture . ( . ) and that because we read so little of this way in scripture , even in the apostolical times , and nothing to encourage us in the expectation of it afterwards : we read nothing there of the union of the soul to the divine essence , of its being absorpt and drowned over head and ears , and ingulphed in the depth of divinity , so that it became one and the same with god , by a true deification . we read there sparingly of some extasies ; as one of st. peter , and one or two of st. paul ; but with how much reserve and modesty doth the holy apostle speak , when he comes to visions and revelations of the lord , when he heard unspeakable words , which it is not lawful for a man to utter ? but what can be greater , if these of teresia be true ? and where might we more expect to be entertained with the relations of such rapts , as in the gospel ? so that when they are there so unusual , and here so frequent , that even societies are embodied and formed from it , we have reason to suspect . ( . ) it 's much to be suspected , when that which is the proper means of judging , and of distinguishing imagination from revelation , is laid aside , which is reason ; and when all is resolved into the person 's own testimony . we are required in all cases to search , and to try , which doth suppose the free exercise of our reason ; and when this is rejected , 't is a sign there is no truth in the thing pretended . ( . ) it is suspicious , when they exalt their own private revelations to the same authority with the revelations of holy writ ; and seek to justify the one by the other . ( . ) when they esteem the way of religion , as describ'd in scripture , to be mean , in comparison of this that they are in , and prefer this way of contemplation and inspiration above the plain precepts of christianity : when it is a condescention in them to join in external worship . thus it is given by father ubald as an instance of the attainment of one to some degree of this rapturous state , that when the hour of prayer was spent , he could hardly be persuaded that it was so , not knowing what prayer he was in . and the famous quietist , molinos , reports of gregory lopez , that having for the space of three years continued that ejaculation , thy will be done in time , and in eternity ; repeating it as often as he breathed ; god discovered to him that infinite treasure of the pure and continued act of faith and love ; and that during the years he lived after , he always continued that pure act of love , without ever uttering the least petition , ejaculation , or any thing that was sensible . so that all is by this means resolved into a spiritual and senseless frame and course , a certain stilness and quietness , as molinos expresseth it , when the soul doth not know whether it be alive or dead , lost or gained , agrees or resists ; this , saith he , is the true resigned life . where there is no external service for the mind to be concerned in , no external object to be attended to . a state of perfection that is above what the gospel doth describe ; and is another gospel than what we have in scripture received ; and which there needs an uncontroulable evidence for ; the want of which increaseth the suspicion . for , ( . ) there is no evidence for all this beyond their own simple affirmation . and who is there without good evidence that can believe that those rapturous ladies , ( such as santa teresa , and donna marina d' escobar ) did in molinos's phrase , hear and talk with god hand to hand ; when he reads the interlocutory matters that are said to have passed between them ; as for example , whenever ( saith teresa ) the lord commanded me any thing , if my confessor told me another ; i turned to the lord , and told him that i must obey my confessor . this , saith that grave man upon it ▪ is sound and true doctrine which secures souls ; or rather confounds and destroys them . this puts me in mind of what the same author elsewhere observes , the desire of revelations uses to be a great hindrance to the interiour soul , especially to women ; and there is not an ordinary dream , but they will christen it with the name of a vision . the world , especially one part of it , has been much imposed upon , when credulous this way . the pretence abovesaid , of maria visitationis , is an instance beyond all exception , who imposed upon her confessor ( no less a man than lewis granada ) the inquisition , and even on the pope himself : and yet notwithstanding she pretended to somewhat more than internal for her converse with our saviour , &c. was detected at last of notorious imposture . but most of the visionaries ( we are speaking of ) pretended not to so much . and therefore where there is no external evidence attempted by them , nor that we have the gift of intuition to see into their inward and self-evidence , we have no reason to think otherwise of such illuminations , and introversions , and interlocutions , than at best the effects of an heated imagination . but of this before . and so much the rather are we to be careful in these matters , and not to be too easy of belief , . because it may be very dangerous in the consequence of it . for if instead of a star , it should prove an ignis fatuus , whither may not persons be led under the delusion of it ? for what will not be concluded to be lawful , nay , a duty , which revelation shall warrant ? and where will this end , if it once be credited , and that we commit our selves implicitly and blindly to such an uncertain guide ? so that in the issue , such a spirit of revelation , as it is not promised by god , and therefore not reasonable to be expected ; so it is not to be desired . i shall conclude this with a saying of one conversant in that way , you must not think them holiest , that have consolations , visions , and revelations ; for many are great saints that never had any of them ; and others that had visions and gusts are not therefore saints ; for true sanctity doth consist in solid vertue , and true conformity of our will to the will of god in all things , &c. i freely acknowledge that there will be a great alteration in the present state of the church , before the close of the whole , and before an end shall be put to christ's mediatory kingdom upon earth ; when the mountain of the lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains ; and all nations shall flow unto it . when the wolf shall dwell with the lamb , &c. and that the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the lord , as the waters cover the sea ; that there shall be but one church over all the world , by the conversion of the jews , and the coming in of the fulness of the gentiles ; and that by the coming down of the new jerusalem from heaven , it shall be in a state of perfect peace ; and there shall be in that sense a new heaven and a new earth . but that is a state in reserve ; and there will need no evidence for that which will be self-evident . in the mean time , if we according to his promise look for a new heaven , and a new earth , wherein dwelleth righteousness , let us , according to the apostle's advice , be diligent that we be found of him in peace , without spot and blameless . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e acts . acts . . phil. . , . tim . , . hebr. . , , . john . , . * breviar . rom. octob . bellarm. de purg. l. . c. . de eucha . l. . c. . * matth. par. hist . an. dom. . eymericus , direct . inquisit . gul. de s. amore de peric . noviss . temp . prateolus de haer. l. . v. d. r stilling fleet , fanaticism of the roman church . deut. . . ex. . . lev. . . v. spondani annal . eccles . ann. dom. . de almarico heb. . . ex. . . tim. . . ex. . , . john . . hebr. . . matth. . . mark . . jam. . . jude . hebr. . . serm. . of the last year . hebr. . , . p. . jesus maria. joseph . teresia . composed by paul of st. ubald . . part. . p. , , . p. . legenda aurea . bolandus , &c. ubald . p. , , . cor. . , &c. p. . n. . spiritual guide , lib. . c. . n. . ibid. lib. . c. . n. . ibid. preface , n. . l. . c. . &c. . n. . ibid. l. . c. . n. . v. lud. à paramo de orig. inquisit . & bp. wor. fanat . of the church of rome . p. . ubald . ibid. part . . c ▪ . n. . isa . . , &c. ch . . , &c. rev. . , &c. pet. . , . the divine authority of the scriptures a sermon peached at st. martin's in the fields, may . : being the fifth of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the divine authority of the scriptures a sermon peached at st. martin's in the fields, may . : being the fifth of the lecture for this present year, founded by the honourable robert boyle, esquire / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . boyle, robert, - . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill, senr & junr ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. half title: dr. williams's fifth sermon at mr. boyle's lecture, . errata: p. . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible -- sermons. sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion d r williams's fifth sermon at mr. boyle's lecture , . imprimatur , guil. lancaster . may . . the divine authority of the scriptures . a sermon preached at st. martin's in the fields , may . . being the fifth of the lecture for this present year , founded by the honourable robert boyle , esquire . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r & jun r : at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . mdcxcv . heb. i. , . god who at sundry times , and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets , hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son , &c. in these words , there is contained ( as i have before shewed ) . a description of revelation , 't is god's speaking . . the certainty of it , 't is by way of declaration , god who at sundry times , &c. 't is taken for granted . . the order observed in delivering this revelation , it was at sundry times , and in divers manners , &c. . the perfection and conclusion of all , 't is in these last days by his son. under the second i have shewed , . that god has actually revealed his will at sundry times , and in divers manners . . what are the characters of true revelation . . i am now in order to prove that the scriptures of the old and new testament do contain the matter of divine revelation , and have upon them the characters belonging to it . in which there are two things to be considered . . the matter contained in scripture . . the books containing that matter . which two will admit of a distinct consideration . for , ( . ) these two , the matter and the books , were originally distinct ; for the matter was revealed before it was written , and would have been of the same authority , if unwritten , as written . the writing not being essential to the authority , but only made use of as a fit means for the conveyance and preservation of the matter . ( . ) these two are capable of a different proof : for the matter of scripture was confirmed by miracles , and had a divine attestation given to it : but we don't find the like testimony given to the books . there were miracles upon miracles , to confirm the truth , suppose , contained in the four evangelists ; but none to prove those four gospels to be wrote by persons inspired , or that these were the books wrote by them . for that has another sort of evidence , to be hereafter inquired into . . 't is fit these two should be considered apart . for , ( . ) if we were to discourse with a professed infidel , we must begin with the truth of the matter , and then proceed to the authority of the books : and we may make converts ( as the apostles and others in those primitive times did ) from the proof we are able to make of the truth and authority of our religion , though at the present we have not the books . ( . ) it 's of no little advantage . for by handling the matter apart from the books , we need not for the present concern our selves in the doubts and objections about the books ; such as the supposed inconsistencies in scripture ; the various readings ; the uncertainty of the authors ; the subject of inspiration , whether words as well as matter , &c. these being laid aside for the present , by this distinct consideration of the matter and the books , will shorten our work ; and if we prove the matter to be of divine original , we also gain a great point toward the proof of the books themselves . i am to begin with the matter contained in scripture . now that is of a diverse nature , and therefore according to the nature of it , so is its authority . for there is matter of fact , and historical relations of things ; and when we say these are of divine authority , we thereby mean they were recorded and committed to writing by the appointment , direction or command of god. again , there are matters of a moral nature , which might be found out by , and are the dictates of pure reason ; and when we say these are of divine authority , we thereby understand that they are authorised by the divine command , as well as in their own nature obligatory . in which cases holy men of god spake , and wrote , as they were moved , incited , by the holy ghost , pet. . . but the more especial way was when the matter was purely of divine revelation , and wholly proceeding from it ; and though this were not to be learned , and found out by reason ( as has been before shewed ) yet 't is agreeable to it ; as i shall now proceed to prove ; and that i shall do in this order . . i shall consider , the claim which the matter of scripture hath to revelation and inspiration . . the characters upon which that claim is grounded . . the proof by which that claim to revelation is made good . . i shall consider the claim , &c. and that is , if the matter contained in the scripture be not a revelation from god , and the true revelation , then there neither is , nor ever was , nor can be such a revelation . . if that be not a divine revelation , there is no revelation ; for as that denies and rejects all revelation besides it self , so there is none other that can produce such evidence for it : and consequently , if notwithstanding the evidence producible for scripture , that is not to be admitted for divine , then there is no revelation existent in the world , since no other has the evidence which that appears to have . this we may leave to any indifferent person to judge of , by comparing the alcoran with the bible ; and the chinese divinity of a confutius , with that of christianity . . if this be not a revelation from god ▪ then there never has been such a revelation ; and that for the reason before given , viz. that there is no other revelation extant save this . but if there ever had been a revelation , and a revelation design'd for all mankind ( as that of the gospel apparently is ) , what was once , would always and for ever afterwards have been existent ; since the same reason there was once for a revelation to mankind , the same would have been for the continuance of it ; and the same divine goodness that took care there should be a revelation , would certainly have taken the like care for the preserving of it . but if there be no revelation , ( as there is not , if the scripture be not that revelation ) then there never was a revelation ; and so all that has been before said upon this argument , about the existence , usefulness , and necessity of a revelation , must go for nothing . . if the scripture be not of divine revelation , then there never can be a revelation , or at least , such a revelation as shall oblige us to receive and believe it : since there can be no stronger evidence produced for the proof of it , than there is for that of scripture . and therefore he that will ▪ pretend not to believe the scripture-revelation for want of sufficient evidence , can never be convinced of the truth of any revelation . for what better evidence can be given , as to the matter , the persons inspired , the supernatural proofs of miracles and prophecy , &c. than what we have for the scripture ? admit then that there is , or ever was , or may be a divine revelation , we may be certain that the matter contained in scripture is of that nature . but though this must be allowed to be a good step toward the proof of the divine authority of scripture ; yet it remains to consider what that evidence is which is thus peculiar to scripture-revelation , and that none besides ever have or can have : and this is the subject of the second general : which is to consider , . the characters belonging to revelation , upon which that claim is grounded . that revelation may be distinguished from imposture and mere pretence , there must be proper characters that are essential to revelation ; without which marks of distinction , we must do by it as few have done , and totally reject it ; or else as the romans did by the deities of other countries , that admitted all into their calendar , we must refuse none . but since there has been a revelation ( as all mankind have been inclined to believe ) , and several pretences to it ( as the experience of all ages has shewed ) , we must follow the direction of scripture , which not only warns us of false prophets , and exhorts us to try the spirits ; but doth also furnish us with such characters , as will enable us to distinguish the true from the false . and this direction , methinks , may pass for one character , according to that of our saviour , joh. . , . every one that doth evil , or speaketh falsly , hateth the light , lest his deeds should be reproved , and his pretences discovered . but he that doeth and speaketh truth , cometh to the light , that his deeds may be made manifest , that they are wrought in god ; or that what he saith , may appear to be a revelation from him . now when the revelation so called doth thus offer it self to an impartial trial , and exhorts and requires all persons to examine and make enquiry , and lays down such rules , principles , and characters , as in the opinion of all men are sufficient to distinguish the true from the false , 't is an undoubted sign that it is able to justify it self , and to make out its claim to a divine authority , by a correspondence to those characters . by this the scripture is distinguished from all others ; for though there were several among the heathen lawgivers that pretended to derive their laws from the direction of their gods , yet it was rather to prevent enquiry , than encourage it ; and to oblige the people to an absolute submission : for who might dispute that which the gods commanded ? or who durst so much as enquire , where the fear of religion restrained them ? but to expose it self to a trial , and to require that men examine before they receive and believe , and to give them such signs as shall serve to describe the truth , and detect imposture , is peculiar to the scripture . from thence therefore it is that i shall produce such characters as will give that a title to divine authority , and oblige us to a belief of it . and what are such , if these are not ? viz. that it could come only from god , is worthy of him , and has a divine and supernatural evidence to attest it . where these are , there is a divine authority , there is a revelation . and these i shall shew do belong to what the scripture proposes as such . . it is a character belonging to revelation , and a sign of the truth of it , when it apparently has god for the author , and can proceed from none but him . this is a character , i presume , will upon examination be found to belong to scripture . as i shall now attempt to prove , by considering that which is the chief subject of it ; and that is the revelation of god's will to mankind . here i shall premise and take for granted , . that god having created man , created him in a state of innocency and purity ; for being infinitely good , it is not to be conceived that he made any thing evil in it self . . that man fell from this happy state ; of innocent he became guilty ; of a pure , he became a depraved creature , as the experience of all ages shews him now to be . . that almighty god was disposed to pardon and admit him again to favour . upon this state of things the scripture proceeds : and because it was impossible for man to find out of himself the way and means by which he might be restored , there needed a revelation to inform him in it . i grant there is a natural means , and what the reason of the thing supposes to be necessary to our reconciliation , and that is repentance . but that this is of it self a means sufficient , and upon which alone god will be reconciled to the offenders , has been always doubted of ; as is evident from the several ways of atonement , and especially of sacrifices , practised in all parts of the world . for since god is the governor of the world , it seems no more reconcilable with his justice , and consistent with that authority he is to maintain , to pardon all offenders upon repentance , than it is consistent with the ends of government among men , to accept of the offenders penitence as a full satisfaction to the law , and to remit the penalty threatned . we have an instance to the contrary , in this very case ; when notwithstanding a supposed repentance in mankind , god inflicted the penalty threatned , in the day thou eatest therof , thou shalt dye . now therefore , since the natural means of propitiating almighty god was not sufficient , there is somewhat further in reserve ; and what that is , none could tell , but he who had it in his own power what to accept , and what to refuse ; it was for him to reveal , that was to institute . and if we take a view of the scheme of what the scripture sets before us as to this matter , it will abundantly confirm what i have proposed as a character of revelation , and that is , that it is from god , and only from him . the sum of which is , that since mankind had thus lapsed into a preternatural state , in which through the infirmity and corruption of their nature , they themselves neither were , nor could do what was acceptable to god in order to a restitution and reconciliation , it was designed that the son of god himself should become a mediator by a present stipulation , and in a prefixed time , by an actual undertaking to dye for us . that accordingly , in testimony of god's acceptance of the atonement , and of his reconciliation , the son rose from the dead , and ascended into heaven , is there our intercessor , and the dispenser of all those gifts , and that supervenient grace which is necessary to the reforming mankind , and the fitting them for that state he is now invested in , and has promised to bestow upon such as are qualified for it . now who is there , that upon a review of these several particulars that do constitute the christian religion , and make up the chief subject of scriptural revelation , can pretend that this was to be found out by human consideration and enquiry ; or rather , that must not grant it proceeded from god ? especially if it be observed what a wonderful intermixture there is in this scheme , of the divine mercy and justice ; of his mercy in pardoning the sinner , and of his justice in requiring an atonement . what a representation of his hatred to sin on one hand , when god established so valuable an atonement as the blood of his own son ; and of his favour and love to mankind , when he spared not his own son , but delivered him up for us all ? what a foundation for our hope on one hand , when he accepted of the propitiation ; and what a dread of offending is there on the other , when he that knew no sin , was made a sin offering for us ? all which laid together , do confirm the truth of this character , and the title that the scripture-revelation hath to it . but there is somewhat further to be added in proof of this point . that it was a revelation from god ; and that is , the many prophecies that are interwoven with it in scripture ; which could proceed from none but him who alone has all causes and events in his power , and so alone could foretell how those causes would operate , and what should be the events of such operation . these being the chief part of the revelation concerning the whole scheme of man's salvation , confirm what i have before said , that it was from god , and from him alone . but this must be reserved to its proper place , under the third general head. to go on , ii. a character necessarily belonging to divine revelation , is , that it be worthy of god , and what becomes the majesty of heaven to make known to mankind . when we say it is to be worthy of him , thereby is meant , that it is suitable to the perfections of his nature , to his holiness and justice , his goodness and mercy , his wisdom and power , &c. to which , and all of which , a revelation truly so , can no more be repugnant , than god himself can be other than he is , and destitute of those perfections which are essential to him . in discoursing upon which , we may observe , . that it cannot be denied , but the revelation of himself to mankind is worthy of god , though it be an infinite condescension . it was an infinite condescension in the deity , that had all in himself , to make such a creature as man ; and it is no more unworthy of god to reveal himself to him , than it was to make him . for what other reason ▪ was there for the making such a creature , and the enduing him with the light of reason , but that he might own , honour , and serve the author of his being ? and since to know and acknowledge god , is the chief end for which man was made , it is as much becoming almighty god to reveal himself to him , as it was to make him for the knowledge of himself . . that is a thing worthy of god to reveal , which is a thing worthy of god to do : and such is the recovery and restoration of man to the like condition he was created in , and unhappily fell from ; for that is a kind of re-making him , and giving him a new being : and since a new being is to a depraved being , what being was to no being , it is as much becoming almighty god from a depraved state to raise him to a state of purity and holiness , as it was at the first to give him a being that before had none . and this is the great subject of what we call divine revelation ; which as it respects man , may come under a twofold consideration ; and that is , the perfection of human nature , and the happiness of mankind . it will be a needless undertaking , to prove that these ends are worthy of god ; but that which rather becomes us is to shew , that as it is the great design of the scriptural revelation to represent this , and to acquaint us with the method that the almighty wisdom and goodness thought fit to observe ; so the method as there laid down , is worthy of such wisdom and goodness , as i shall now proceed to shew in the two instances given . st . the method almighty god is in scripture said to take for the purifying and the perfecting human nature , is highly worthy of so glorious a being ; and that is threefold , cautionary , moral , and supernatural . ( . ) that which i call cautionary , is the way almighty god was pleased to take for the representing his displeasure against sin , and to make mankind cautious of offending . the means made use of before the fall was a penalty threatned , in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt dye . but because that had proved of so little force to restrain mankind , and for fear lest when god had received them into favour after such a threatning , his mercy and indulgence might be abused , and become an encouragement to sin , god added thereunto an expiation ( as has been before said ) , and that to be made by his own son ; who from the dignity of his person , and the voluntary oblation of himself , should be reputed as a representative of the whole , and the whole be esteemed to suffer with him . by which means , as god's mercy would be abundantly testified in a design for redeeming them ; so his justice would be exemplified , when he that had no sin of his own , should yet be made a sin-offering , and suffer for them . for how could they presume after this to offend the almighty father , when rather than suffer his laws to be violated , his authority slighted , his holiness and justice disparaged , or leave mankind under a temptation so to do , he would express his hatred against sin , and his resolution to punish it , by requiring and substituting such a sacrifice as that of his son in their stead ? this is the apparent reason of such an institution ; and both the institution and reason of it are worthy of the divine counsel ; since there is no way in which these things can be represented to greater advantage , than by the scripture-scheme of man's redemption . ( . ) there is the moral means , that serves the same end , viz. the purifying and perfecting human nature , to which revelation gave the last and finishing hand . it is true , these moral principles are no other than natural maxims , and which were nature , unassisted , sufficient for , might have been extracted out of it . but mankind were no more able to attain to that skill of themselves , than an unexperienced person , and unacquainted with the art of chymistry , can extract such exalted and generous spirits out of the bodies of plants and animals , as upon trial we find they are endued with . it is another light we view nature by since the communicating of the evangelical revelation to the world . nature and reason now , are not the nature and the reason they were before , or are still where that revelation has not been known : and therefore if we would know what the force of those principles are , and how far they operated by their own power , and of themselves , the way is not to judge of it as it appears to us , where the gospel-revelation is , but as it was in the state of pure heathenism , not excepting the finer part of it ( as it flourished in greece it self ) and as it is now in some of the remote parts of the world , as in the west-indies , &c. for gentilism it self apparently mended upon the publication of the gospel ; and then their moralists wrote with another strein , than those of their own sect did before that time . for in the scripture there is such an entire and compleat system of all things requisite to the perfection of human nature ( as far as in this state it is capable of it ) that nothing is wanting for direction and obligation . there we find the most natural characters of good and evil traced along from the first rise in all their tendencies , and the just bounds of both described . there we have on one hand the most enforcing encouragements to virtue and goodness , and on the other the most necessary cautions and admonitions against sin ; and both fortified with proper instances and examples . there we find the noblest principles , and exactest rules ; and the great lines of our duty plainly set forth in their utmost extent ; and that as well for the regulation of the thoughts and desires , as the government of our actions . there we find that duty enforced by the highest obligation , by no less authority than that of god himself , whose precepts and injunctions they are declared to be , and not the mere results of our own nature and reason . and whereas nature falls as short in its sanctions ( having only conscience to enforce them ) as its authority ; when these moral principles become god's laws , they have rewards and punishments of another kind annexed to them , and as everlasting as our souls , to bind them upon us . so that as far as nature thus directed and excited can go , we have the most effectual means in our power for the amendment and purification of it . but because it is only so far in our own power , and that in the issue we prove too remiss in the exerting of it ; and that after all , nature flags and recoils , and is too much nature still . therefore , ( . ) there is a supernatural means to render the other effectual , and to give encouragement and success to our endeavours ; and that is a power as divine as the authority , which is the assistance of the holy spirit of god. look we upon the morality of the greatest philosophers , how poor is that to the doctrine of our saviour and the apostles ? look we upon the fruits of it , and there we shall find them short of their principles ; and that the case was much with them as with the stoical posidonius , that would not allow passions in human nature ; that when invaded by the gout , might chide both that and himself for his sensation of it ; but the disease and nature , kept on their course , and would own no such authority . so it was with them that had only nature to correct nature ; that while they pretended to be the physicians of it , could not cure themselves , nor alter so much as custom , which had alter'd that . the instances they give of a philosophical cure , are as rare as the miracles they pretend to have been wrought in the temple of aesculapius , or by a vespasian , few and questionable ; a phoedon , or a polemon , to credit the schools of a socrates or a xenocrates . but the instances of such as were converted by our saviour and apostolical persons , were like his miracles , numberless , and not to be disputed . when the gospel flew like lightning through the earth , and became as successful in reforming , as teaching the world ; nature by it was changed , and the temper became subject to the divine power . so that the doctrine of christ did turn those that were immersed in wickedness , to a life agreeable to reason , and the practice of all virtue ; as origen shews , and appeals to his adversary in . and what was then done , would always be done , if there were not some obstruction on our part , either as to asking that assistance , or in the not improving it ; according to that of our saviour , matth. . ▪ whosoever hath and useth it , to him shall be given , and he shall have more abundance . dly . it is worthy of god , and becoming the most benevolent as well as the most powerful of beings , to consult what may be for the happiness of the reasonable nature , and to propound this as an encouragement to them in the performance of that service he expects and requires of them . and what can make them happy , if the order and method of salvation revealed in scripture be not sufficient for it ? whereby they are not only assured of the protection and blessing of divine providence in this life , but also of a state of immortality in the life to come : where they shall be taken into the enjoyment of their ever-blessed creator ; and be fitted both in body and soul , by the divine power , for such a participation . to which i may add , that it is as worthy of god to reveal the way by which that happiness is to be attained . i grant that by the use and power of reason , and the sense we have of the difference between good and evil , we may learn , though obscurely and very imperfectly , what is acceptable to god : but yet without revelation we are much in the dark , and can as little know what is on our part necessary toward the attainment of that happiness , as we do what the condition of the future state is , and wherein the happiness of it consists . there is as much difference between what is only supposed , and what is necessary , as there is between what we hope for , and what is certain . and therefore , as there needs a revelation to assure us of that which without revelation we only hoped for ; so there is as much need of revelation to inform us of what is necessary to our acceptance with god , and to our happiness in another world ; and without which we are left to conjecture only . so that as far as certainty is to be preferr'd beyond hope and imagination ; and the knowledge of what is necessary , is beyond conjecture ; so much is the comfort of revelation beyond that of nature ; and so much is it becoming almighty god , who gave us our nature and being , to acquaint us with what may both make us happy , and lead us to it . especially was this necessary , considering how far the world had wandred out of the right way ; and what superstitious and infamous rites had been taken up ; and what practices dishonourable to the deity and human nature , had been used . and this way to happiness the scripture has plainly reveal'd . dly . it is a design worthy of god , to reveal himself to the world , and to give mankind a right notion and representation of his nature . the being of god , is what the whole creation proclaims ; and there are some attributes of his lye open to all , and are conspicuous in their effects , such are his wisdom and power . but there are others that we rather know by inference , and need a farther and brighter light to inform us in ; and such are his goodness and his mercy . and since these are as essential perfections of the deity as the other , and exceed them in the influence they have upon mankind , as to our love and adoration of him ; and yet are not so legible in the frame of nature , nor so observable in the course of his providence as the other ; we cannot conceive but that it is as becoming our creator to represent himself to be a god gracious and merciful in a revelation to mankind , as to be a god great , powerful , and wise in the creation . we see how confused the gentile world was in their notion of the supreme power ; how inconsistently they thought , and how low their representations were of the deity : and at best they had a very imperfect notion of those divine attributes of love and goodness , of pity and compassion , of indulgence and condescension , of patience and forbearance , of mercy and forgiveness , which the scripture represents with life and perspicuity there it is that we find the almighty creator stooping to the creature , condescending to their condition , bearing with their infirmities , pitying their miseries , forgiving their sins . there we find him reproving , arguing , following sinners with importunity , and leaving nothing undone , that was consistent with his nature and honour to do , toward the salvation of mankind . and above all , in this was manifested the love of god towards us , because that god sent his only begotten son into the world , that we might live through him , joh. . . so that if to reveal what was not otherwise to be known , concerning god's reconciliation to mankind , and the terms upon which he is reconciled ; if to restore man to the state he is fallen from , and to promote him to a state of purity , perfection , and happiness ; if for god to reveal and to render himself acceptable to mankind by the most obliging characters of love and favour , be worthy of him ; lastly , if to reveal what is most worthy of god , be a character of revelation , then the scripture is such , and what is therein contained must be from god. iii. a character necessarily belonging to revelation , and by which the true is to be distinguished from the false and pretended , is a divine and supernatural evidence ; which is the same with the third general head , viz. the proof by which the scripture's claim to divine revelation is to be made good ; and that is next to be considered . now there are three instances of this kind , viz. prophecy , miracles , and the wonderful success of the christian religion , and the preservation of it under the most potent opposition , and greatest discouragements . ( . ) prophecy . that is of it self a revelation ; and as it is what all nations , as well learned as barbarous , have acknowledged ; so being an instance of revelation , it is a good proof of that revelation which it doth accompany , and is interwoven with . and this is the case before us ; for the scripture being composed of matters of a different kind , cannot have the same sort of evidence : but prophecy being self-evident ( when the event has apparently answer'd the prediction ) and a supernatural evidence , is a good proof to what has no such evidence ; and which for the sake of that proof is as much a matter of faith , and as credible , as the prophecy it self ; because such a testimony being a testimony from god , cannot be applied to the support of a falshood . so that where there is prophecy truly so , we may conclude that to be true , and to come from god , to which that testimony is given ; for if the testimony be divine , the doctrine confirmed by it must be divine also . in discoursing upon which , i premise , . that there is such a thing as prophecy ; that things future have been predicted : tully saith , this all nations have agreed in ; as has been aforesaid . . that prophecy is a good testimony to what it is given ( as i have proved already ) . so that there is nothing remains , but to shew that the revelation in scripture hath had this testimony . and of this there are two sorts , near , or remote . of both which we have an instance in the prophet sent to jeroboam , kings . . the remote was , that a child should be born , josiah by name , about years after , who should burn mens bones upon that altar . the proximate ( which we may otherwise call a sign ) was , that at that time the altar should be rent , and the ashes poured out . if the remote had been alone , it would have had little influence upon them who were most nearly concerned ; and therefore there needed some present sign to verify it . but otherwise , the remote is the stronger , especially when at such a vast distance of time , as shall render it impossible for men or angels to foresee , or by any practices of theirs to accomplish ; when it depends upon voluntary as natural agents , and is in the conclusion answered by a parallel event , it is to after-ages a certain and indisputable evidence . to which if we add the concurrence of both , when there is a chain and series of prophecies near and remote , in a certain and continued order following each other , the first looking forward to others that are to succeed , and the latter having a retrospect to the former ; there is no reasonable nor possible exception to be made against the matter thus testified , without excepting against the testimony of prophecy , contrary to the sense of all mankind . as for instance ; if there be a prophecy or prophecies in several ages , from which it plainly appears , that at such a precise time , in such an age of the world , some hundreds or thousands of years after , there should arise a certain person , born at such a place , and in an extraordinary way , and descended from such and such progenitors , who should come to reform mankind ; and in confirmation of his doctrine , should perform many astonishing acts , and do many supernatural works ; that at a certain time , and in a certain determined year , he should be put to death by his own nation , and upon it that nation should be captivated and destroyed , and the countrey desolate ; it is a testimony not to be disproved . and yet setting aside the many prophecies in scripture relating to particular persons and families , to the jews and other nations , i shall only instance in some of those concerning our saviour ; and others of our saviour's himself : the former of which will appear to be exactly parallel to the case proposed . the first of these is the prediction immediately after the fall of adam , and years before the actual completion of it ; that there should be one born of the seed of the woman , and supernaturally made of her alone ( as adam was out of the earth without a woman ) that should bruise the serpent's head , who had beguiled eve through his subtilty . about years after which prophecy , and so years before our saviour , it was revealed to abraham , that in his seed , and by one who should descend from him , all the families of the earth should be blessed ; and which was afterward renewed to isaac and jacob. again ; about years before christ , it was prophesied by jacob , that shiloh , or the messiah , should descend from his son judah . about years before our saviour's birth , david was exalted to the throne , of whose family the messiah was to be a branch ; whence it was that he was commonly known among the jews , by the character of david's son. in the same royal prophet have we the prediction of our saviour's death , resurrection , and glorification ; and in very minute circumstances , as to the first of these , vid. psal. . . . , , , , , . , &c. this is also the great theme of isaiah's prophecy , years before the accomplishment , that there should be a root out of jesse , the messiah , who should dye for the sins of the people , be rejected by his own nation , but be believed in by the gentiles . isa. . . . , &c. . in the same age lived micah , who foretells the very place he should be born in , viz. bethlehem-ephrata . lastly ; about years before our lord's incarnation , daniel directly points to the time and the year the messiah should suffer in , which was to be in the midst of the seventieth prophetical week , ( each of which consists of seven years ) that is , the th . year , from the decree of artaxerxes for the rebuilding of jerusalem . as may easily be computed by ptolomy's canon , and reckoning the years backward from the death of our saviour , ( which was in the reign of tiberius ) to some fixed year of artaxerxes . in consequence of which , the city and sanctuary were to be destroyed , and the whole countrey laid desolate , as with a flood . this conclusion leads us on to the second branch of prophetical observations , viz. our saviour's own predictions , which are very many ; but a most remarkable one is his prophecy of the destruction of that people , city , and countrey , foretold by daniel as to the very time ; and which our saviour describes so particularly , as if he had it at that instant before his eyes , when he discoursed of it to his disciples . there he foretells , * the preceding signs , as famines , and fearful sights , &c. * that many false prophets should arise . * that there should be barbarous slaughters one of another . * that jerusalem should be closely besieged ; but withal , that at that time there should be an opportunity for escaping ; which he advises them to take , and to fly to the mountains for present security . * that the enemy should at last cast a trench about it , and keep them that remained in on every side . * that he should finally take the city , and lay it even with the ground ; and that not one stone of the stately structure , the temple , ( which they then were admiring ) should be left upon another . * that the surviving jews should be led captive into all nations , and never return again to that land as proprietors . * and that all this was because they knew not the time of their visitation . * and that this should happen in that very age. never was any prophecy more express , never any sentence more terrible , nor more punctually fulfilled , as to all the particulars before-recited ; and for which we may appeal to josephus the jew , who was an eye-witness of all , and as exactly describes it as to those instances , as if he was writing a comment upon our saviour's prophecy ▪ joseph . de bell. l. , , , . and accordingly , as the temple , though attempted by julian the apostate's order , never could be built , ( as the heathen historian ammianus marcellinus relates , hist. l. . ) so that people to this day remain vagabonds , without any certain place , dispersed over the world . having traced this subject thus far , we may proceed . . another way by which we prove the claim that the matter of scripture hath to a divine authority , is miracles ; of which kind there is nothing wanting that can reasonably be desired ; and that either as to the judaical , or christian dispensation . as for instance : if a person should pretend that he comes from god with a revelation , and which he requires us to hearken to , on peril of damnation : what satisfaction should we desire ? surely if the doctrine he teaches be in it self credible , and worthy of god , and what in the nature and tendency of it proves to be useful and beneficial to mankind , we have as much evidence as the nature of the thing will bear . and farther , if the person upon whom we are to rely , doth openly and in the sight of all , even of enemies that watch him , as well as friends , and in the most publick assemblies , cure all manner of diseases , though naturally incurable , by a word , or a touch , and even at a distance . if he commands the winds and the seas , the good and the evil angels , feeds thousands in a desart with no more than what would satisfy a few , and raises the dead . if he tells the most secret thoughts , inclinations , and practices of his enemies as well as followers . lastly , if when himself is put to a violent death , he in a few days , according to his own prediction , rises again , appears to , and converses with those that knew him when alive , and saw him dead : and afterwards in the view of many ascends bodily into heaven ; and within a few days , as a farther testimony of his former mission and present glorification , confers the same or like power upon his disciples : who can reasonably doubt of the truth of what he has taught ? i need not here draw the parallel . and if the question should be put , as it was by those whom john the baptist sent , art thou he that should come ? our saviour's answer will serve for one here , tell john what things ye have heard and seen , how that the blind see , &c. luke . . there needs no greater evidence to convince mankind . . another proof of the divine authority of the matter of scripture , is the event and success , correspondent to former predictions . such was that of the israelites in canaan ▪ and much more , the wonderful and astonishing progress of the gospel , without any of that assistance and force which that people had , and when it had the force of emperors and kings to oppose it . could it be thought possible , that a few simple and timerous persons , who had been bred up to a mean employment , and had never been out of their own countrey , should each by himself undertake perilous and remote journeys , among people they had no knowledge of , and to whose tempers , customs , and language , they were altogether strangers ; and should prevail with them to change their gods and their religion , their customs and their lives ? could it be thought that men of no authority nor interest , of no learning , depth of judgment , nor subtilty in arguing , should be able to maintain and propagate a doctrine that seemed to be foolish and absurd , a doctrine of a crucified saviour , a doctrine opposite to the sensual inclinations and interests of mankind , ( as the state of the world then was ) a doctrine that obliged them that believed it , to profess it with the hazard of all that was dear to them in this world , and upon no other encouragement than a reward in another ? and yet even this doctrine , so meanly attended , became so successful , that according to our saviour's prediction , matth. . . before the destruction of jerusalem , and within forty years after his death , the sound of it went out into all the earth , rom. . . not to proceed further in this argument than scripture ; in those early times we find converts , if not churches , in the most frequented cities for trade , learning , and dominion ; in corinth and ephesus , athens and rome ; in the courts of princes , even of a herod and a nero : acts . . phil. . . and where not ? now if there had not been truth in the doctrine ; if it had not been a doctrine worthy of god , suitable to the desires and expectations of mankind ; if it had not had a supernatural evidence and testimony , and an assistance as great as its evidence , it could not in those circumstances have made its own way , nor have proved in the event so powerful and successful . no , it was god that chose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise , and the weak things of the world to confound the things which were mighty : and it must be a revelation from him alone , that had all these testimonies on its side to confirm it . so that we may conclude as we began , that if ever there was a revelation , the revelation contained in scripture is a revelation , and the only true revelation now in the world. and if so it be , then what an obligation is there upon us to observe it ? when 't is god speaking to us , we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard from him , lest at any time we should let them slip , heb. . . finis . errata . in the license to this sermon , for may . read may . p. . l. . r. good-will . p. . l. . after god put a ( ; ) notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pet. . . joh. . , &c. justin. hist. l. . contr. cels. l. , & . cic. de divin . l. . gen. . . gal. . . gal. . . gen. , , &c. gen . . matth. . . mic. . . dan. . , &c. lev. . . a sermon preached at st. lawrence jewry, before the lord-mayor, aldermen, and livery-men, of the city of london, on saturday the th of september, at the election of the lord-mayor for the year ensuing / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sermon preached at st. lawrence jewry, before the lord-mayor, aldermen, and livery-men, of the city of london, on saturday the th of september, at the election of the lord-mayor for the year ensuing / by john williams ... williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ri. chiswell, and tho. cockerill ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, english -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached at st. lawrence jewry , before the lord-mayor , aldermen , and livery-men , of the city of london ; on saturday the th of september , . at the election of the lord-mayor for the year ensuing . by john williams , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty ; and rector of st. mildreds poultrey , and st. mary cole . london : printed for ri. chiswell , and tho. cockerill , sen r and jun r ; at the rose and crown in st. pauls church-yard ; and at the three legs in the poultrey . mdcxcv . to the right honourable sir thomas lane , lord-mayor , sir john houblon , lord-mayor elect of the city of london . and the court of aldermen . right honourable , it is not for me to think otherwise than well of a performance which has the order of your court for its publication . and it is in obedience to that , and for promoting the same end for which this sermon was composed , that 't is now presented to your lordships , by your most faithful , and humble servant , john williams . a sermon preach'd before the lord-mayor , &c. joshua xxii . . phineas the son of eleazar the priest , said unto the children of reuben , and to the children of gad , and to the children of manasseh , this day we perceive that the lord is among us , because ye have not committed this trespass against the lord : now ye have delivered the children of israel out of the hand of the lord. these words are the close of a solemn debate between the ten tribes of israel that had their lot in canaan , on the west of the river jordan , and the two tribes and a half that were scituated on the east of it . the occasion of which was this : after the conquest of canaan by the israelites , and an end in all appearance put to that war , the two tribes and an half , who till that time by the command of moses , and their own promise , stood obliged to attend it , were dismiss'd by joshua , and were upon return to their own inheritance . when they landed on the other side , and before their dispersion to their several homes , they agreed to build an altar at the place where the children of israel had first passed over , ver . . after the pattern of that at shiloh , ver . . this , to those that knew not their reason , nor their motives leading to it , seemed an intolerable presumption ; since there was to be but one altar for sacrifice , ver . . and that at the place which god should chuse to put his name there , deut. . , . and then to set up another altar in opposition to that , and to break off from the communion of the church established by god's appointment among them , was in effect to set up another religion , and to be guilty of rebellion against the lord , ver . . . upon tidings therefore of this , the ten tribes gathered themselves together to shiloh , the place at that time where the tabernacle was pitched , where god was worshipped , and whose cause they were bound to defend ; and according to the precept of the law they were resolved to proceed against them as idolaters , if the fact proved according to their information , deut. . . but here they proceeded like a wise and cautious people ; for in matters of such importance , and attended with such fatal consequences as a civil war , and the destruction of two of their tribes , there needed great deliberation , and a careful attendance to the method in such cases prescribed in the same law , ( deut. . , &c. ) viz. if thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities which the lord thy god hath given thee to dwell there , saying , certain men , the children of belial , are gone out from among you , and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city , saying , let us go and serve other gods ( which we have not known ) then thou shalt enquire , and make search , and ask diligently ; that is , they were to use the utmost care to obtain a true information of the fact. after this manner did the western tribes act in this case , and sent phineas the son of eleazar the priest , and ten princes , one out of each tribe , to expostulate the matter with their brethren , and to seek by fair means to reduce them . these commissioners , as well as the whole congregation , took the case , as represented to them , for granted ; and when they came to the place were eye-witnesses of the fact : they saw the altar , and that it was a pattern of the altar of the lord ; and like persons zealous for the good and peace of their countrey , and for the purity and honour of their religion , they no sooner came , but they delivered their errand , saying in the name of the whole congregation , what trespass is this that ye have committed against the god of israel , to turn away this day from following the lord , in that ye have built you an altar , that ye might rebel this day against the lord ? v. , &c. but after a patient and full hearing of the charge , the two tribes utterly disclaim it , appealing to god , the witness and judge of all , that they were so far from erecting this altar in opposition to that appointed by god as the only altar for sacrifice , that , on the contrary , it was built for asserting and maintaining their right to it ; and for fear lest ( jordan being their border , and by which they were separated from the other tribes ) that in time to come they might have their propriety and interest in the true altar questioned ; and therefore they agreed to make an altar after the pattern of it , that might be a witness and memorial to future generations , that they on their side jordan had as much a right in that at shiloh , as those that lived in the possession wherein the tabernacle of the lord dwelt . when phineas and the other delegates heard this , they were pleased and fully satisfied in this relation ; and he concluded all in the words of the text , this day we perceive that the lord is among us , because ye have not committed this trespass against the lord. in treating upon which words , i design not to confine my self wholly unto them , but shall consider them as the close of this narrative ; and accordingly i shall take the liberty to make some observations from the whole . as , i observe , . that prepossessions and misunderstandings are too often the occasion of great divisions in the world , and of such as , if not prevented , draw after them very pernicious and fatal consequences . thus it was in the case before us ; it was a report , a hear-say , ver . . the children of israel heard say , behold , the children of reuben , gad , and of the half tribe of manasseh , have built an altar over-against the land of canaan , in the borders of jordan , at the passage of the children of israel . and upon this report , the whole congregation of the ten tribes assembled at shiloh , to go up to war against them . . there ought to be the speediest and most effectual care taken for preventing the ill consequences of such misunderstandings , and to take up the case before it comes to the utmost extremity . it was so here . the exasperated tribes , like persons resolved to vindicate the common cause of religion , came with the sword in their hand ; that if the supposed delinquents should have acted according as it was represented , and should prove obstinate and incorrigible , they might proceed to the utmost severity . but they acted with all the precaution necessary ; they sent such delegates as were in all points accomplish'd for such a service , whether for quality and authority , for prudence and experience , who argued the case with all the arts of respect and endearment . they in the first place expostulate the matter with them ; what trespass is this ? &c. — is the iniquity of peor too little for us ? — but that ye must turn this day from following the lord ? &c. and then with great tenderness they offer any terms in their power , and are freely willing , that if the two tribes like not their habitation on the other side jordan , and think their possession unclean , that they might chuse where they would among the other , rather than rebel against god by such a separation . . that the most proper met●●d for preventing such misunderstandings , and for composing differences arising from such misunderstandings , is examination and enquiry into the cause , with deliberation and meekness , that they may see where the difference lies , and take the best course for the composing of it . it was so here , the commissioners were prepossess'd , and came with prejudice , upon a false information , or rather their mistake grounded upon the information ; and withal , were zealously bent to punish the aggressors . but their zeal was governed by prudence , it did not make them precipitate and rash , nor transport them beyond the bounds of decency and respect . they delivered the sense of the assembly , as became representatives of so venerable a body as the congregation of the lord. they expostulate , and they argue ; but it is with softness and candor : the expostulation was affecting , and the arguing strong , but the condescention was equal to both . there were no reproaches , no hard words , no bitter reflections . they had to deal with brethren , ( though , as they supposed , notorious offenders ) and they used them as such . let us view the words again ; what trespass is this ? — is the iniquity of peor too little ? — notwithstanding , if the land of your possession be unclean ( as perhaps you imagine ) then pass ye over , &c. but rebel not . and the same way is to be taken for removing prejudices and misunderstandings , even by those that suffer , or are likely to suffer by them . and of this the two tribes are an admirable example , in the defence they make for themselves , and the reply they give to this unexpected and hard accusation . they were wrongfully charged with a crime of a heinous nature , no less than rebellion against god , and such as might have involved them in utter ruin. they found how their brethren of the other tribes , upon a misreport , were disposed to war upon them : and what warmth might be expected upon such a provocation , to find them so credulous , and forward , and exasperated for nothing ? but see how on the contrary they behave themselves in their resentments and reply , which is as clam and modest , as it was grave and serious . they begin with a solemn and most pathetical appeal to god , as a witness of their innocency , ver . . the lord god of gods , the lord god of gods , he knoweth , &c. and conclude with as solemn a protestation , ver . . god forbid that we should rebel against the lord , and turn this day from following the lord , to build an altar for burnt-offerings , — besides the altar of the lord our god that is before his tabernacle . here were no invectives , no recriminations , no revilings , no charges of slander and calumny ; but all was carried on with a becoming modesty and meekness . . it is a comfortable evidence of god's presence with a people to bless , defend , and prosper them , when mistakes are removed , differences happily composed , and they are at union and peace among themselves . it was so here , when the case was understood , and that after the fear of so dangerous and threatning a rupture , it appeared that there was no sufficient ground for such a surmise as the ten tribes had entertained , and all was quietly ended . so the text ; this day , said phineas , we perceive that the lord is among us , because ye have not committed this trespass against the lord. i shall treat of these in their order . . i observe that prepossessions and misunderstandings are too often the occasion of great divisions in the world ; and os such , as if not timely prevented , draw after them very pernicious and fatal consequences . we ought to have more charity for mankind than to think any of such rancorous and diabolical tempers , as to do evil for evil's sake , and to divide the world , and break the frame of order and government in pieces , solely for the sake of the mischief consequent upon it , without any provocation or cause whatever . and yet if we come to look narrowly into the contentions among mankind , if it were not for charity that inclines us to better thoughts , we should often be under a violent temptation to think there are some that quarrel for quarrelling's sake , when the matters in debate , and so hotly agitated on either side , are in their own nature , and are seen to be so by wise and discerning men , next to nothing , and not fit and worth the while to be enquired into , much less to be contended about ; were it not to disabuse well-meaning persons , that are hurried along in the crowd , and carried away by the precipitance of those whom they follow , and whose judgment they rely upon ; or for preventing such mischief as sometimes ensues upon a neglect of them . solomon tells us , that the beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water , prov. . . which perhaps begins in a few drops , but by degrees makes its own way , and at last becomes a torrent , and bears down all before it . now we can as little suppose that the contentions which afterwards swell to so prodigious a height as by their force to carry away such numbers along with them , should at first spring from contemptible causes and occasions ; were it not that at length the passions of men gradually inflame the quarrel , or that those that usher'd them into the world , and afterward kept up the ball of contention , did through mistake think them to be of great importance , when in reality they were of none . for if they had but the patience to trace them up to their original , they would see that they are in their nature or their reasons very weak and impertinent ; and proceed from such principles and occasions as they would be ashamed to own , and which could never have got such a footing and ground , were it not that they rose , have grown and been hatch'd up under the favour of mistakes and prejudices . and yet these are occasions that the wisest of men are not above ; and no more is it to be expected that ever they should be altogether free from such like misunderstandings , than that they themselves should see every thing with their own eyes , hear all with their own ears , and need no information . no more is it to be expected , than they should be freed from all passion and resentments , from all precipitancy and error in judgment . we have an instance of this in the case before us , when the whole congregation was so far imposed upon by a mistaken relation on one hand , and their own imagination on the other ( when they heard that the two tribes had built an altar like that of shiloh , and conceived it was an altar for sacrifice ) that it had like to have engaged them in a destructive war. it was so with moses himself , in the case of the same people , when the two tribes and a half applied themselves to him for a possession on the other side jordan , which he on the sudden misinterpreted , as if they consulted their own ease and safety , and so discouraged their brethren ; whereas their design was concurrent with his , and consistent with the aid he required , and they were willing to give to the other tribes in the wars of canaan . and if we go from single persons to a multitude , the case will admit of farther exemplification ; as it was with those at epbesus , when some cried one thing , and some another ; for the assembly was confused , and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together ; but the word was given , and those that were strangers to the first rise of the tumult , yet joined in the common voice of great is diana of the ephesians , acts . , . it is upon such misunderstandings that the greatest feuds in church and state are for the most part graffed . we find very often that the passions and mistakes of men keep them more at a distance than the matters about which they contend ; and if we can but bring them together to discourse the point calmly , the controversy is soon brought to an issue ; and they readily own , that had they known so much before , and that the adversary had been so disposed to a reconciliation , and the matter so capable of it , the breach might have been long before made up , to their mutual quiet and satisfaction . and thus it is often in disputes , whether about religious or civil affairs . that which makes the point in dispute considerable , and the breach seemingly irreconcilable , is a multitude of words , a troop of exaggerations and aggravations , much passion and vehemence , a stiffness of temper , and a strangeness in conversation ; and when thus dress'd up , it is no wonder , that though the controversy be without life , and the trumpet give an uncertain sound , yet all prepare themselves to the battel . but if the matter were to be separated from these , and to stand alone , without all these comments and pretended expositions , it would appear to be quite another thing , and to afford little or no ground for such contention . and this is evident to the by-standers that are unconcerned , if not to the litigants and contenders themselves , when the cloud of their passion is removed , and the heat of the controversy is worn off . for what do we now think of the tedious and mischievous controversy aforetime about leaven in the sacrament , that almost rent in pieces the eastern and western churches , and made way for the irruption of the saracens ? what of the controversy in the last age , concerning the decrees and five points , which so divided our neighbouring nation , and drew so many others into the quarrel ? not to mention the most impertinent of all , those many feuds in the romish church , and in particular that of the immaculate conception of the virgin mary , which popes and councils , after years dispute have been afraid to determine . and god knows what those that shall live in the age or ages after us will think of some controversies that now disturb the christian world , and which even in this nation keep a foot animosities , and uphold separations ? but to come nearer to our purpose , the case is the same in secular matters , where misunderstandings frequently begin , and keep up the contention . men quarrel about nothing , or what is extremely frivolous . 't is for the most part a hear-say that begins the quarrel ; characters of persons they don't know , and affairs they are not acquainted with , and know little more of than they do of the other world , or the most foreign nations in this ; nay , perhaps they lose the first scent and point in debate ; but the heat continues , and brings new matter upon the stage , and then they are to begin the world again . if indeed the event in such cases was of no greater concernment than the things they mistake in , it would not be much material whether persons were in the right or in the wrong . but it often happens the mischief is not the less for the misunderstanding ; for when the passions are once engaged , they make every little thing to be great , and presumption shall pass for right , and shew for certainty ; and then it shall be establish'd as an infallible maxim , that right and truth must upon no account be parted with ; fiat justitia , & ruat coelum . and then come in contempt of superiors , defamations , reproaches , and invectives ▪ factions and parties . and whilst , like the exasperated jews ( acts . . ) they throw dust into the air , they see not one another ; friendship and enmity are confounded ; and at last , if they lose not the cause they first appeared in , they lose that which is greater , unity , moderation , and charity , and true care for the publick good. so that in the issue it proves like the scaling of a fort , when under the covert of the smoke the enemy securely advances and surprizes them ; they betray the publick peace , order , and constitution ; and if there were an enemy to seize it , ( which god forbid ) he would easily espy and make use of such an advantage . and therefore this is a case not to be neglected . which brings the next head under consideration , viz. . there ought to be the speediest and most effectual care taken for preventing the ill consequences of such misunderstandings ; and to take up the case before it comes to the utmost extremity . the first thing here to be done , is , if it might be , the preventing mistakes and misunderstandings ; but since it is impossible but that offences in that kind will come ; the next is to rectify them , and by setting things in their proper light , and by giving all occasions and advantages for enquiry and satisfaction , to let them see they are mistaken either in the truth or the importance of the matters in dispute ; and that if they should be in the right , it is but a strife of words , tending to no profit , but to the subversion of the publick peace . for which reason there cannot be too much care taken , as solomon advises in the place before quoted , the beginning of strife is as one letteth out water ; therefore leave off , and so suppress contention before it be meddled with ; before it gets footing and strength , and that it comes to distinguish a party . and tho here it 's the part of every one , of what capacity soever , to study to be quiet , and to preserve the tranquillity and good order of the place , nation , and city where he is ; yet herein above all doth the conduct of a good magistrate appear . in quiet and regular times , when all things are easy and clam , an ordinary care will be sufficient to guard the community , and to preserve it from danger . but as the skill of a pilot is best seen and tried in a storm , or perilous coastings : so is the prudence and courage of a magistrate , when there are high discontents and oppositions ; that he may know when to act , and when to forbear ; when to hold , and when to yield ; and to keep a steady hand between the preserving his own authority , and the publick peace : that he may not betray his authority , and expose the honour of his station to contempt by a too hasty desire for peace , and by too easy compliances and condescensions ; nor on the other hand break the peace , and endanger the publick , by being too tenacious of his authority . it is then a difficult task to temper the minds of the froward , to remove prejudices , to bear with the weak , and even the impertinent ; to convince the mistaken , and like another st. paul , to become all things to all : and above all , to prevent the ill consequences of the misunderstandings of such as mean well , but err dangerously ; that are persons of conscience , but yet whose conscience through mistake is set the wrong way ; that think they do the publick ( as others think they do god ) service , john . . when they take the ready way to bring all into confusion . such persons are to be pitied , and used with tenderness and respect ; and it may be worth the while to seek and endeavour their satisfaction and recovery , to lay open and convince them of their mistakes : for if convinced , they will be made hearty , zealous , and trusty friends ; and like st. paul when reduc'd to the belief of the christian doctrine , his zeal and his conscience went along with him , and he laboured more abundantly than all the rest of the apostles . . the most proper way for preventing the mischiefs too often consequent upon such misunderstandings , is to enquire into the merits of the cause ; and patiently and deliberately to weigh what belongs to it . the congregation in this chapter went not headily on ; but sent ( as has been before said ) proper delegates to enquire into the reasons upon which the two tribes proceeded : as to what was to follow , in case they found them perverse and obstinate , the law was to be their guide and warrant ; and that being a matter of great importance they were very solicitous in . now what matter of fact was to them , that matter of right is to us ; and a person needs to be well advised , and has good reason to question his own understanding , when he is sure that the event of his present design and enterprise may , and in all probability will be very pernicious . he has need to deliberate , when he is not nor can be so sure he is in the right , as he is sure of the ill consequence of it , and of a consequence as mischievous as if he was in the wrong . he may justly then question the truth , lawfulness , and necessity of it ; whether , for example , that is lawful , which will produce , or is likely to produce , the worst of effects , that is , confusion : or , whether what he contends for is as necessary or more necessary than the peace he must part with for it . i grant , that as a necessary war is more eligible than a shameful or dangerous peace ; so there are those rights and privileges that are to be held faster than peace : but when peace and order are such choice and valuable blessings , that nothing is ordinarily more necessary than them to the welfare of mankind , and the well-being of the world ; i have sufficient cause to enquire into and to be satisfied in the truth and importance of those things which i must purchase at so dear a rate as the parting with my own quiet , and the publick peace and order for . there are some cases where it is worth my while to venture my life for preserving what i have , or obtaining what i desire , but when my life is brought into imminent hazard by an enterprize , i have a warrantable reason to be well satisfied in the truth and certainty , the excellency and necessity of the things i venture it for . therefore i take it for a certain rule , that where the advantage and excellency of what i gain is not more than sufficient to counterbalance what i lose or part with for the sake of it , i may justly suspect , at least suspend and deliberate . and when the loss of such excellent things as publick order and peace are likely to be the event of my present proceedings , and of the course that affairs will be thereby put into , i have reason to consider , and to think i may be mistaken , and impartially to weigh all over again . for i cannot be mistaken about peace and order ; they are beyond all exception to be valued and respected ; but i may be mistaken in the matters i pursue , or the method in which i pursue them ; and which i cannot pursue without putting those inestimable things into hazard . this is a matter that , if carefully attended , would go a great way toward the removing many mistakes that trouble the peace of the world , and break in upon the establish'd order of a nation or city . it is none of my design to intermeddle in those affairs which belong to persons of another station ; but i may , and it is our business to lay down rules for the guiding of mens consciences in points of difficulty . and i think we may safely rely upon that as such , that there is nothing can bind against peace and order ; and what always tends to confusion , and breaks order in pieces , whereever it comes , is deservedly to be suspected , and i may safely say must needs be false ; that is , that which tends to bring things into the same state as they were in before , would have been without , and were brought out of by the establishing of government . here we must stick ; and wherever this is , there a person must stop , as he would if upon the top of a precipice , till he has searched to the utmost , and has received unquestionable satisfaction . the loss of peace and order , unity and charity , are the utmost extremity that a state of things can be brought into ; and which are like the life of another , that a person is not to take away , till he can no longer defend and preserve his own , and can run no farther : and are therefore to be kept always in our eye , and are the polar star by which we must judge of our way , and guide our selves in the course we are to observe , whether to the right hand or to the left . for mistakes in these things are extremely dangerous ; and when matters of such importance depend upon the principles we espouse , and the course we take , we cannot be too careful or inquisitive , before we proceed or engage too far in a design . we ought then to be as wary as we would be if our life were therein nearly concerned . for peace and order are to the publick what life is to our selves , and are not to be parted with upon terms less urgent and necessary . and if as often as persons venture upon the doing of what has an apparent tendency to the disturbance or dissolution of government , they would put their own life into the scale with it , the balance would incline another way ; and they would no more do what has a tendency to the one , without previous consideration , than they would do what has a tendency to the other . and i should desire no better security for the one than the other ; for the peace of the government , than the preservation of mens lives . all would then be quiet , the swords that are drawn , and the contentions that fetch blood of the publick , and endanger its safety , would be turned into ploughshares ; and peace be within our walls , and prosperity within our palaces . but if we cannot prevent misunderstandings , yet the mischievous consequences may in great part be prevented ; for there may be charity where there are mistakes ; and charity will teach us to be favourable in our opinions of others ; and incline us to think , as it will teach us to do , no ill . charity here begins at home , and will teach us to condemn the faults we find there , in our selves , families , and parties , before we adventure to pry into , publish and censure those of others . charity will teach us to put our selves into the circumstances of others , to bear with their infirmities , considering our selves , according to the apostle's advice , gal. . . lest we also be tempted ; and to make the same allowances which , if in their condition and circumstances , we would desire others to make to us . if this were put into practice , though we may mistake , and there will be misunderstandings , yet mistakes would then do no great hurt ; but would be like the wild beasts in the holy mountain , ( isa. . . ) that would lose their ravenous and venomous nature , and become cicurated , tame and innocent . and above all , there is a farther blessing . for , . such a state and temper is a comfortable evidence of god's presence with a people ; as it is in the text ; this day we perceive the lord is among us , because ye have not committed this trespass against the lord ; and that they had made evident they were all of one mind , and alike stedfast in the profession of the same religion . this , i say , is an evidence of god's presence , where there is an union of hearts and affections , and a joint concurrence in the same practice ; for god is not the author of confusion , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tumult and unquietness , but of peace , cor. . . broils and contentions might with allowance be continued among the heathens , when their gods themselves were divided into sides and parties ; but are not to be defended under the christian religion , where the end of the commandment is charity , tim. . . and that we worship but one and the same god. how excellent a state of things would there be , if this so generous and noble a principle , charity , and the peace of god ruled in our hearts , col. . . and that each party would strive to outdo and excel each other in ? how excellent a state of things would it be , if the inferior would not revile the superior , nor the superior set at nought the inferior ? that the inferior would as much study to obey with humility and modesty , as the superior to rule with lenity and moderation ? and that among all , the cause of a friend might be examined with the same exactness and justice as that of an enemy ; and an enemy's with the same caution , respect , and indifference , as that of a friend ? what an excellent state of things would it be , if all the tribes came hither this day , as they were wont to go up to jerusalem , with one consent , psal. . . and were one body in affection , as they are one by constitution ? it were to be wished , that there were but one altar , and one communion ; that all the nation were but one church , and that with one mind and one mouth we did glorify god , even the father of our lord jesus christ , rom. . . it were to be wished , that this populous and flourishing city were in all respects like jerusalem in its most prosperous and happy state , a city compact together , and at perfect unity in it self . how might we then hope to have god among us , and that might be our song as it was theirs , we have a strong city , salvation will god appoint for walls and bulwarks , isa. . . but next to that , is to be soft and gentle , calm and easy in our differences . we cannot expect to be all of a mind , ( that , if ever it be , must be the work of time , and a peculiar act of the divine providence ) but we may be peaceable and quiet , studious of the common good , and zealous promoters of it . we need not be fierce and bitter ; we need not bite , worry , and devour one another , gal. . . we need not backbite and calumniate , vilify and reproach ; and search for matter to asperse , disparage , and load our adversaries with , and be glad when we find it . we need not go out of this world , disquiet the ashes , and blacken the memories of the dead , and deal as barbarously with them , as the philistines did with saul , sam. . . when they cut off his head , stripp'd off his armour , and sent it round about to publish it among the people ; as if there were not matter enough among the living , to find those hateful vices of envy and malice an employment . we need not , lastly , be froward and sullen , and rather give up the whole , than not in all points have our own way ; and expose all to inevitable ruin , than not have our own humour , nay , our own reason sometimes gratified : for then must we needs go out of the world . how becoming rather is it our profession ; how worthy of our common religion ; how much for the safety and honour of this flourishing city ; and which is more , for the honour of almighty god , whose favour and blessing we at this time come to seek , and whose presence we trust is now among us , to depart hence with a stedfast resolution of observing the excellent rules of our holy religion , and of making good in practice the character given of charity by the apostle , cor. . , &c. charity suffereth long , and is kind ; charity envieth not ; charity vaunteth not it self , is not puffed up with self conceit , nor prone to despise others ; doth not behave it self unseemly in words or behaviour ; seeketh not her own , to the prejudice of others ; is not easily provoked ; thinks and suspects no evil ; rejoiceth not in iniquity , in the slips , miscarriages , and faults of others , but rejoiceth in the truth , in whatever is praise-worthy , wherever it is : beareth and concealeth all things that are fit to be concealed ; believeth all things , so as to put the best construction upon them that they are capable of ; and hopeth all things , where it cannot and has no sufficient reason to believe ; endureth all things , so as not to revenge any evil done to our selves , and to do all we can for the good of others . if this be , we may have reason to say with phineas in the text , this day we perceive that the lord is among us , because ye have not committed this trespass of division and strife against the lord. that this may be the event of our preaching , our prayers , and present assembling together , god of his infinite goodness and mercy grant , through jesus christ our lord. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e numb . . , &c. a vindication of the answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the church of england in reply to a pamphlet abusively intituled, a clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the protestant rule of faith, &c. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a vindication of the answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the church of england in reply to a pamphlet abusively intituled, a clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the protestant rule of faith, &c. williams, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng williams, john, ?- . -- answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england. church of england -- controversial literature. catholic church -- doctrines. clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the protestant rule of faith. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of the answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the church of england . in reply to a pamphlet abusively intituled , a clear proof of the certainty and vsefulness of the protestant rule of faith , &c. imprimatur , liber cui titulus , [ a vindication of the answer to the address , &c. ] guil. needham rr. in christo p. ac d. d. wilhelmo archiep. cant. à sacr. domest . april . . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard . m dc lxxxviii a vindication of the answer to the popish address , &c. a clear proof of the certainty and usefulness of the protestant rule of faith , scripture , after the help of ministerial guides , finally interpreted by each man 's private sense . a title seemingly belonging to a protestant book , and a book wrote by a protestant , if the title and book do agree : but that they are so far from , that if truth and ability had been on the author's side , it might have been more truly call'd , with respect to his design , a clear disproof of the certainty , &c. but why so much caution ? why is not the address or answer to it , so much as named in the title ? we are left to guess ; and because every man may in such a case use his liberty , i could upon perusal of his book , guess at no reason sooner , than that the prover was not very confident of the sufficiency of his defence , and might by such a clandestine title , secure himself against a further reply ; unless his adversary had nothing else to do than to read all the pamphlets printed by h. h. ; or some unlucky chance should make the discovery . and to say the truth , the prover might have succeeded in his design , and have triumphed in the victory he had thus secretly stollen , had not a little accident , though somewhat late first , brought it under his adversary's eye . this proof is drawn from the answer to the address presented to the ministers of the church of england . the author thereof had required that clear and plain texts of scripture be offer'd , which interpreted in the protestant way , by those who receive it thus expounded for their whole rule of faith , should so prove the two principal articles of christian belief , the trinity and the incarnation of christ ; as also the obligation of keeping holy the sunday , and not saturday , as one of the commandments seems to require ; and that so convincingly , that a christian might ground on them his faith. interpreted , i say , in the protestant-way , without any deciding church-authority when doubts arise about the sense of the letter . the prover's design is to expose the protestant rule of faith , and to that end , because he had no better way , is forced to misrepresent it . for thus he saith , scripture interpreted in the protestant way , is received by them , thus expounded , for their whole rule of faith. but he well knew , or should know , that the scripture is with protestants , a rule of faith as it 's the word of god , and their whole rule of faith , as it 's the only word of god , and so is as uncapable of taking in any humane exposition to be a part of that rule , as it is of any new revelation . that is , the scripture depends not upon the sense given it by any man , or order of men for its being thus a rule , but upon its own authority . but he ventures a little further by way of explication . scripture , saith he , interpreted in the protestant way , without any deciding church-authority , when doubts arise about the sense of the letter . but supposing there are no doubts about the sense of the letter ; then it seems there is in that case no use of any such deciding authority , and that we may be certain of the sense of the letter without such authority . if so , then it would be known of what kind that certainty is , which may be attained without such authority , and whether it be not attained by the use of reason and understanding ; and so is at last resolved into what he decries , private sense . but put the case as he would have it , and supposing there be a doubt about the sense of the letter , i demand whether we may not by the like use of our reason , arrive to the same sort of certainty in the things we now doubt of , as we have arrived to in the things we are at present certain of , without any deciding church-authority ? as for example : suppose a doubt ariseth about this deciding church-authority it self , how shall the doubt be decided ? if we seek to the deciding church-authority , that is the thing in question ; if we repair to the scripture , the sense of that is to be declared and determined by the deciding church-authority ; and if we take any other measures for understanding it , we fall into the dangerous and abhorr'd extreme , of finally interpreting it by private sense : so that either the matter is uncapable of proof , and must be taken for granted ; and there is a deciding church-authority because there is so : or else if it be to be proved , it must be by the same way that other things are proved in , and that is by producing the reasons for it , and according to the judgment made upon it thereby , it 's ultimately to be decided . and then farewel to the deciding church-authority , when in a matter of so great consequence , and the first point to be resolved in , it must be submitted to each mans private sense . the addresser holds , ( if he be a catholick ) that scripture , rightly understood , is a rule of faith ; that the gospel revealed by christ , preached by the apostles , and preserved by the catholick church , is so much our whole rule of faith , that we own with tertullian , we need not be curiously searching since christ , nor further inquisitive since the gospel was preached . no new revelations , no new articles , being received as of catholick faith ; but those truths only retained , which the church proposes as delivered to her by the apostles , her whole authority being ever employed , as pope celestine delivers it to the council of ephesus , in providing that what was delivered , and preserved in a continual succession from the apostles , be retained ; so that nothing is of faith , but what god revealed by the prophets and the apostles , or what evidently follows from it ; the catholick church ever handing it to us , and declaring it to be so . the gospel revealed by christ , preached by the apostles , and preserved by the catholick church , is their whole rule of faith. — no new revelations , no new articles being received as of catholick faith. what seemingly more orthodox , and spoken more like a protestant ? but our author for fear of correction , tempers it immediately with some of their own ingredients , here and there cautiously applied . as for example ; if we ask , whether the scripture be their whole rule of faith ? he answers , scripture rightly understood , is a rule of faith ; the gospel revealed by christ , and preserved by the catholick church , is their whole rule of faith. is it asked again , whether there are no new revelations , no new articles received as of catholick faith ? he answers , these truths are only received which the church proposes as delivered to her by the apostles . the meaning of which phrases , the gospel rightly understood , and preserved by the church , and the truths which the church proposes as delivered , is , that which is thus preserved , proposed , delivered , and interpreted by the church , is as much the rule as the scripture , and that without this tradition and exposition of the church , the scripture is in bellarmine's phrase , but a partial rule . scripture thus interpreted is a catholick rule of faith ; the addresser therefore meant nothing less than to diminish its divine authority ; his design was to preserve it , and that each mans private sense might not sacrilegiously pretend to be that word of god , which , as st. peter minds us , is not of private interpretation ; 't is not against the authority or use of scripture he writ , but against the protestants unjust and insignificant method of using it . i will here make good the charge , ( hoping , that when he thinks fit , he will much more fully perform it ) by the very answers given to his questions , which i shall set down in that order and sense in which the answerer construed them . here he tells us , 't is not against the authority or use of scripture the addresser writ . the divine authority of scripture consists in its being of divine revelation , and the reason for which it was revealed , is for the use , instruction , and salvation of mankind . but if it be insufficient for attaining that end , and either is wanting in what is neeessary , or is writ in a way so obscure and dubious that it 's not to be understood by those for whom it was written , it 's certainly a revelation unworthy of god , and a considerable argument against its divine authority . and therefore he that undertakes to prove this , must , if he be in earnest , have a very mean opinion of that divine book , and designs to bring others to the like opinion of it . but this is the apparent design of the addresser , who argues all along against the sufficiency and perspicuity of scripture , even in those points which our author owns to be the two principal articles of christian belief , the trinity and the incarnation of christ ; clearly giving away the cause to the arians and nestorians , and frankly acknowledging , nay venturing in his way to prove , that the texts usually insisted on by the orthodox in proof of those articles , are not sufficient for it . so that in conclusion , if the scripture be so perplex'd and obscure , so doubtful and ambiguous , so unintelligible and insufficient a rule , they may as well lay aside the scripture , as that father did the obscure poet , with an , if thou art not to be understood , thou art not fit to be read . and yet after all this charge insinuated all along in the address against the scripture , 't is not yet against the authority or vse of it he writ . what then did he write against ? it was against the protestants unjust and insignificant method of using it ; and that each mans private sense might not sacrilegiously pretend to be that word of god , which , as st. peter minds us , is not of private interpretation . i must confess if each or any mans private sense be pretended to be the word of god , it 's both vnjust and sacrilegious , since nothing can be the word of god , but what is by his immediate inspiration . but where are they that thus pretend ? what reason is there for this charge ? these are things he takes for granted , but insinuates that this is done by the protestants , who interpret scripture by their own private sense . but why will this any more prove that because they interpret scripture by their own sense , they pretend their sense to be the word of god ; than it follows that those that resolve all into a deciding church-authority , do therefore pretend that the sense given by that authority is the word of god ? for i presume after all , that they will not dare to say such their interpretations are as much the word of god , as the word is , which they are the interpretations of . however , he intimates , it 's sacrilegious to interpret scripture by each mans private sense , when st. peter minds us the word of god is not of private interpretation . but surely the apostle doth not therein include the using and understanding of scripture by private persons , as if that was forbidden , when he tells them they did well to give heed to it , ver . . neither did he suppose they were uncapable of understanding it , when he calls it a light , and unto which they were to give heed till the day dawn , &c. nor farther will the apostles argument admit of any such exposition , which is thus , ye ought to give heed to the scripture , for it 's not of private interpretation ; for holy men of god spake as they were moved ; that is , scripture is the interpretation of god's will , the inspiration of the holy ghost ; and though wrote by men , is not of humane invention , nor was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of their own motion , nor an explication of their own mind , but of god's . of this see a late book called , texts of scripture cited by papists , &c. pag. . the prover now falls on in earnest , and with great resolution saith , he will make good the charge of the protestants unjust and insignificant interpretation of scripture , by the very answers given to the addresser's questions , and that he will set them down in that order and sense in which the answerer construed them . i wish he had added too , in his own words ( as the answerer did by him . ) for i find no great reason to trust him either as to order or sense . qu. . whether all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture ? ans . scripture must contain these necessaries . all catholics ever owned what st. augustin teaches , that all things which concern faith and manners of life are found in those things which are plainly contained in scripture ; so that , as st. gregory expresses it , god needs speak to us ▪ no more by any new revelation . for , as the same st. augustin observes in the question betwixt him and the donatists , about true baptism , which he held absolutely necessary to salvation , tho we have no proof in this case from holy scripture , yet we follow the truth of holy scripture even in this case , when we do what the vniversal present church approves of , which church is commended by the authority of the very scripture . all true catholics without doubt ever owned what st. austin teaches , and that not so much because st. austin teaches it , as that what he herein taught , is true . but ( to use our authors words , pag. . ) i wonder how this man was so confident as to name st. austin , and quote this place , after the answerer , and then to declare all catholicks ever owned what he teaches . since i have good reason to question , whether our author be of that number . and that , . because all true catholicks ever held the doctrines of the trinity , and the incarnation of our blessed saviour , to be things which concern faith , and as such , to be plainly contained in scripture . but our author on the contrary , saith these are not plainly contained in scripture ; and then either according to st. austin , they should not concern faith , or our author is none of those catholicks that own what st. austin teaches . . the church of rome ( which whatever others think , i question not but the prover holds to be catholick ) owns not what st. austin teaches ; for she affirms there is a word unwritten as well as written , and that this unwritten word is as necessary as the written : forasmuch as there are things relating to faith and manners in the unwritten word that are not contained in the written . but here our author has prevented me , for he will prove this also to be the sense of st. austin , and both consistent ; as thus , all catholicks own what st. augustin teaches , that all things which concern faith and manners are plainly contained in scripture . — for as the same st. augustin observes about true baptism , which he held absolutely necessary to salvation , that we have no proof in this case from scripture ; yet , &c. that is , the scripture contains all things necessary relating to faith and manners ; for we have no proof from scripture for a point absolutely necessary to salvation : which is , as if he should say , england is a country that abounds in all things necessary to life ; for it wants bread which is absolutely necessary to it . this is in our author's phrase , pag. . a special piece of logic. i will for the honour of st. austin , and in charity to our author , suppose he turned not to the place in that father , when besides this impertinence he charges upon that learned writer , he reads , we have no proof , for we have no example ; and speaks so darkly of the case it self . i will direct him to it , it 's contr. crescon . l. . c. . let him read it at his leisure , and compare it with ch. . and in the mean time i shall furnish him with another saying of the same father , whether concerning christ , or his church , or any other thing which belongs to faith and life , i will not say , if we , who are not to be compared with him that said , though we ; but if an angel from heaven shall teach besides what ye have received in the prophetical or evangelical writings , let him be accursed . but the case in this first question , as it appears stated by the addresser , is , whether all things necessary to salvation are immediately and expresly contain`d in scripture , or drawn thence by an evident consequence ? our answerer proves they are so , by the three following texts ; his proofs i will set in a due form , that their force may lie open to all . the first text is taken out of joh. . . where the evangelist having premised , ( v. . ) many other signs also did jesus in the sight of his disciples , which are not written in this book ; says , v. . these ( which he had set down ) are written that you may believe that jesus christ is the son of god , and that believing you may have life in his name . now what conclusion can be drawn from this text to our present purpose , but one , in one of these two forms ? first thus : the signs set down by st. john , ch ▪ . are sufficient to make us believe that jesus is christ the son of god ; but precisely to believe that jesus is christ the son of god , is all that is necessary to have life in his name , or to salvation ; therefore the th . chapter of st. john contains all things necessary to salvation . or else thus , in the answerer's words : all that is as sufficient in its kind to beget faith in us , as faith is to save us , contains all things necessary to salvation ; but the th chapter of st. john`s gospel , as it appears by ver . . is as sufficient to beget faith in us ; therefore that th chapter contains all things necessary to salvation . a special piece of logic ! however his conclusion eases the members of his congregation from the obligation of reading any part of scripture besides the th chapter of st. john 's gospel . our author from his love to logic , and his skill in it , undertakes to set the answerer's proofs in a due form . but by his leave , i shall put in a small charge or two against it . as the first charge i have against what he calls a setting the proofs in a due form , is , that his conclusion is false in its form , as his syllogism has four terms in it : for saith he , the signs set down by st. john . are sufficient to make us believe jesus christ is the son of god ; but precisely , to believe that jesus is christ the son of god , is all that is necessary , &c. for precisely to believe that jesus christ is the son of god , is to believe that and no more . whereas , by that phrase , the scripture implies the believing the whole gospel . so joh. . . i believe that thou art the christ , the son of god. acts . . i believe that jesus christ is the son of god. john . . who is he that overcometh the world , but he that believeth that jesus is the son of god ? . he puts his query too extravagantly . now what conclusion can be drawn from this text to our present purpose , but one — therefore the th chapter of st. john contains all things necessary . this is a conclusion of his own forming , and before he can infer it , must ask two or three things , which he may be sure will never be granted him . . he takes it for granted , that by these in st. john , are to be understood only the signs set down in that chapter . whereas ( . ) st. john in the former verse , speaking of the signs done by jesus , saith they are not written in this book , but these are written . where ? not in that chapter , ( for to say the truth on 't , whatever our author thinks , st. john did not divide his gospel into chapters ) but in that book . and thus inded bellarmin understands it . but ( . ) the apostle further enlarges this phrase , chap. . , . this is the disciple which testifieth of these things , and wrote these things — and there are also many other things which jesus did . and so what is true of the signs , is also true of the other things wrote by that evangelist . ( . ) tho st. john spoke this more especially of the things writ by himself , yet the same is applicable to what was wrote by the rest of the divine writers : and it might be said of what was written by them , as well as of what was written by him , these are written that ye might believe . and this was the use made of this place of st. john in the answer , viz. to shew what was the end the scripture was written for , and the sufficiency of scripture in order to that end ; and this that quotation proves ; for if any part , and much more the whole of scripture was written that they might believe ; surely then they might believe by reading what was written . thus it was argued in the answer , p. . the scripture must fail of its end , and we of the salvation therein revealed , if that be not as sufficient in its kind to beget faith in us , as faith is to save us . for saith st. john , these things are written , &c. so that instead of our author's conclusion , i shall give him two other , which contain the force of what was there said ; they are these . the end for which the things are written in scripture , is that we might believe ; but the things written would fail of the end for which they were written , if they are not sufficient to beget that faith in us , which they were intended to be the means of . again , if by the belief of what is contained in scripture , we come to be saved ( as st. john saith ) then the scripture must contain all those things which are necessary to be believed . but saith the prover , st. john saith all this of the signs written in that chapter : but that i have already prevented ; or , if i should say so , it 's as tolerable , as it is for bellarmin to affirm , that all the useful ends for which scripture was wrote , are to be found in the d epistle of st. john , the shortest book of scripture . but however , here is a dreadful charge at the heels of it . for , saith the prover , the conclusion eases the members of his congregation from the obligation of reading any part of scripture , besides the th chapter of st. john 's gospel . we may guess to what church our author belongs , when he will have it an ease to the people , to be discharged from reading the scripture . tho at the same time , i wonder how he came to stumble upon the word obligation : for how is this to be reconciled to the practice of that church , which eases the people of the whole , and permits them not to read the th chapter of st. john , nor any other part of scripture , tho they are under a divine obligation so to do ? but in the name of logic and the university our author was of , how comes this conclusion on , that if all things necessary to salvation are contained in the th chapter of st. john , that therefore the people are eased from the obligation of reading more ? i remember bellarmin at this place argues much at this rate , if st. john 's gospel contains all things necessary , then the rest of scripture is superfluous . but the same bellarmin , when press'd another way , asserts , there are many things in scripture , which of themselves do not pertain to faith , that is , which are not therefore written , because they are necessary to be believed . and again , there may be things sufficient for baptism , but which suffice not absolutely for the church . so that it seems there are things necessary and sufficient in one respect , and not in another ; some necessary for salvation absolutely , some for edification . and therefore it follows not , that because all things absolutely necessary , are contained in some part of scripture , therefore the others are superfluous , and there is no obligation to read them . for then it would also follow , that because all things necessary are contained in the new testament , therefore the church in our author's phrase , is eased from the obligation of reading the old . and because three thousand were converted by one sermon , acts . therefore all besides what was contained in that sermon , would have been superfluous . the second text of scripture is , tim. . , where the apostle having thus warned timothy immediately before , v. . continue in those things which thou hast learnt , and are committed to thee , knowing of whom thou hast learnt ; by which words he renews the commands he had given him , o timothy ! keep the depositum ; have a form of sound words , which thou hast heard of me , in faith ; the said apostle minds him that in his infancy he had read the old testament , which bears sufficiently witness that christ was the messias , v. , . because from thine infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures , which can instruct thee ( the protestant version hath , make thee wise ) to salvation by the faith that is in christ jesus . all scripture inspired of god is profitable to teach , to argue , to correct , to instruct in justice , that the man of god may be perfect , instructed to every good work , hence the minister argues thus ; the same apostle that says all scripture , ( i. e. each part of scripture ) is given by inspiration of god , says that the scriptures are able to make us wise to salvation ; but men cannot be wise to salvation , without knowing what is necessary to salvation . here he leaves us , but i will make up the syllogism ; therefere the old testament alone , nay every part of scripture , contains all things necessary to salvation . thus you see the minister rests satisfied with the first chapter of genesis for his whole rule of faith. the truth is , that st. paul only teaches there , that the testament , or any part of scripture , is of good use , is profitable to instruct any one in the concerns of his salvation . what 's this to the containing of all necessaries to salvation ? bread is of very good use to preserve life , and enables a man to perform all the duties of it ; is therefore nothing else necessary ? what pitiful shifts are these ? here i must take leave to charge our author with notorious sophistry , not only from the false construction of his syllogism ( whether out of ignorance or design i know not ) but also for the falseness of the matter contained in it . the answerer indeed undertook to prove the scripture contains all things necessary to salvation ; and that we are as sure of its sufficiency in that kind , as we are of its divine authority : forasmuch as the same apostle that said all scripture is of divine inspiration , doth also immediately before as positively affirm that the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation , tim. . , . this is the whole of what the answerer said upon this place ; and now with what conscience could our author charge this following consequence upon him ? hence the minister argues thus , the same apostle that says all scripture ( i. e. each part of scripture ) is given by inspiration of god , says that the scriptures are able to make us wise to salvation ; but men cannot be wise to salvation , without knowing what is necessary to salvation . is this he that said he would set down the answerers proofs in due form ? then god deliver us from such undertakers . in short , it 's very evident that the argument in the answer , reduced into due form , is this ; if the same apostle saith the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation , that saith they are of divine inspiration , then we are as certain of their sufficiency as we are of their authority ; but the same apostle saith the scriptures are able to make us wise to salvation , that saith they are of divine inspiration : therefore we are as certain of their sufficiency as we are of their authority . this is the argument , and this i will abide by ; and if our author had been a fair disputant , he would have shewed how either the premises were false , or the conclusion not justly inferred from them ; and since the place in which his cause was most concerned , is ver . . that the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation ; he should have directed his answer to it ; but he found it too hard for him , and so shuffles it off to the next verse , all scripture is given by inspiration of god , and is profitable , &c. whereas supposing that all scripture there , was after his wild way ( which i am not at present concerned to refute ) to be applied to each part of scripture ; yet what is that to ver . . where it's said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the holy scriptures , the same which timothy had known from a child , are able to make wise unto salvation ? but though for fear of being engaged further , he durst not undertake it ; yet he insinuates in an inference of his own , that it was the old testament only that timothy had read . but . how doth it appear that he read not also the books of the new that were then extant , of which there were many ? for bellarmin in his answer to this , only says , when this epistle was writ , the apocalypse was not then extant , nor the gospel of john , and perhaps some other book was wanting , of the body of the scripture . thereby yielding , the rest were then written and published . . if the old testament was able to make them that then read it wise unto salvation ; then surely both old and new is as sufficient now , as the old alone was then . our author may remember where this was urged upon him , but he prudently pass'd over that paragraph in silence . i shall still therefore conclude , that the scripture is not only profitable , but necessary ; and not only necessary , but sufficient to answer that end for which it was revealed and written ; and that is , that we might believe , and be wise unto salvation . his third proof is this , christ sent the young man who put that question to him , master , what shall i do to inherit eternal life ? to the commandments , thou knowest the commandments ; and again declared that moses and the prophets were sufficient to dispose a sinner to repent . behold another logical inference of great credit to the university this answerer was brought up in ! by reading moses and the prophets i am moved to repent from my sins ; and if i will know what i must do to inherit eternal life , i must know the commandments ; therefore all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture . i may with justice return to this man more than what he ungroundedly says to the addresser , p. . that he takes up with such a sort of arguments , which , tho not useful to make any ef his religion , may very well make others of none . if such use only could be made of scripture , it would be of no use at all to our salvation ; no senseless heresie hath appeared this years , which was not backt by more seeming proofs from scripture than these . here our author again prevaricates . the words in the answer are these , from which consideration ( that all things necessary are in scripture ) it was , that all doubts relating to salvation were hereby to be resolved , which could not be , were not all things necessary to salvation contained in it . in which there are these two plain propositions , . that all doubts relating to salvation might and were to be resolved by scripture . . that they could not be resolved by scripture , unless all things necessary to salvation were contained in it . the first of these , which is the chief thing to be proved , the answerer shewed from luke . , . and mark . , . luke . . in the first of these places , our saviour upon the question put to him , master , what shall i do to inherit eternal life ? replies , what is written in the law ? how readest thou ? and he answcring , said , thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart , &c. to which our saviour replies , v. . thou hast answered right , this do , and thou shalt live . what saith the prover to this ? his answer from bays , p. . might well be returned , were it seemly in so serious an argument as we are upon . he is indeed silent , and ( in his words elsewhere ) one may guess at the reason without casting a figure . the same question is again put to our saviour , mark . . and our saviour answers , v. . thou knowest the commandments , &c. implying , that in the law , of which the decalogue was a part , there was the way prescribed , by which eternal life was to be obtained . the third place in the answer is , luke . . where the rich man in hell intreating that lazarus might be sent to his five brethren , lest they come into that place of torment ; he was answered , they have moses and the prophets , let them hear them . and when he supposed that was not sufficient , but if one went from the dead , they would repent ; abraham answers again , if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be perswaded , &c. in which there are these things : first it 's supposed , that if they did repent , they would not come into that place of torment . . that if they hearkned to moses and the prophers , they would repent . . that whatever was necessary to their repentance , they might find , and was contained in moses and the prophets . what saith the prover to this ? why , instead of an answer , he will be at his logic , and putting the answerer's proof in a due form ; which he ushers in with great triumph , behold another logical inference , of great credit to the vuniversity this answerer was brought up in ! well , what is this logical inference ? it 's this , by reading moses and the prophets , i am moved to repent of my sins ; and if i will know what i must do to inherit eternal life , i must know the commandments ; therefore all things necessary to salvation , are contained in scripture . if our prover's sincerity be no better than his logic , he is no more a credit to his religion , than he is to his university , if ever he was of one . here 's a defect in both , but which prevails is not easie to determine . i can relieve him by no other way , but by supposing the argument in the answer gave him a shock , and his brain was out of order before his inference . but without exposing his weakness further , i will set him right , and leave him to his cell for the rest . the answerer's argument is this , when set in due form , if all questions and doubts relating to salvation are to be resolved by scripture , then all things necessary to salvation are contained in scripture ; but all questions and doubts relating to salvation are to be resolved by scripture ( as appears from the texts quoted above ) therefore , &c. i shall here return him my words again , because in repeating he has perverted them , he takes up with such a sort of arguments , which how useful soever they may prove [ i will recall it , and say with him tho not useful ] to make some men of their religion , have a plainer tendency to ( not as he corrupts them , may very well ) make others of none . q. . whether all things necessary to salvation are clearly contained in scripture ? ans . from scripture , not a word . however he condescends to deliver his sense , and that of his church , on this qnestion ; it is , that all persons cannot immediately learn all the necessaries to salvation by meer reading of scripture ; that many other helps are necessary , to wit , attention , consideration , to be cleared from prejudices and prepossessions , from pride , love of the world , interest , obstinacy ▪ partiality , sloth ; and besides all this , the assistance of teaching guides , and a dependency from god for the wisdom he hath promised , ( such promises i find made to the church , but not any to particulars that shall refuse to be absolutely guided by the church ; ) so that scripture is plain in this sense only , that by these means it may be apprehended . now by guides he means not false ones , such as christ bid us beware of , and consequently till a protestant hath a reasonable conviction that his church-teachers , tho' divided from the catholic church , and condemned by general councils , tho' abettors of a religion of not years settlement , tho not in communion with one bishop in the whole world out of his majesty's dominions , yet still are true guides ; and till he be morally sure that he wants not himself any one of the ten other dispositions requir`d , is to persuade himself that he may very well be one of those who wrest the scripture to their perdition , and consequently hath no good ground for any one act of faith. this will create but small comfort to any protestant . less yet will he find in st. cyril's sentence , the things that are easie , are yet to heretics hard to understand ; especially if all those be heretics , according to st. augustin , who when the doctrine of catholic faith is declared to them , chuse to oppose it , and rather embrace what is their own sense ; if the catholic faith be , according to the same dr ▪ a communion with the whole world , so that , according as his scholar st. prosper defines it , a christian when in communion with this general church , is a catholic ; when separated from her , an heretick , i wonder how this man was so confident as to name that word heretic ; which his brethren are usually as much afraid to mention , as a murtherer to come up to the murder'd corps , lest by its bleeding he be betray'd . he saith that as to this second question , there is from scripture not a word in the answer . and what needed it , when the same texts that were brought to prove the scripture contains all things necessary , do prove that it plainly contains them ? as for instance , joh. . . these are written that ye might believe , and that believing ye might have life . where the end for which they were written , which was that they might believe ; and the persons for whom they were written , for all christians ; sufficiently prove , that they were for the manner so exprest , as well as from the matter so evident , that they might believe . so again , tim. . . the scriptures are able to make thee wise unto salvation . if they were the scriptures that timothy knew from a child , and were able to make him wise unto salvation , surely they were plain in those things . so again , luk. . what is written in the law ? how readest thou ? must needs imply the law was plain to be read and understood . so luk. . . they have moses and the prophets . but to what purpose , if moses and the prophets were not to be understood by them ? but , . what proof would he have of this ? can he have any plainer proof , than from the things contained therein ? tolle lege , will shew there is a god , and god alone is to be worshipped . that the soul is immortal . that there is a future state , and that a state of rewards and punishments . that man is fallen . that christ redeemed him . that christ is the son of god. that he became man. that he was crucified , and died a sacrifice for us . that he rose from the dead , ascended into heaven , is there our mediator , &c. of which and the like , we may say as justin martyr did to trypho the jew , attend to what i shall rehearse out of the holy scriptures , proofs which need not to be explained , but only to be heard . but he goes on , however the answerer delivers his sense on this question : it is , that all persons cannot immediately learn all necessaries by meer reading of scripture ; that many other helps are necessary , to wit , attention , consideration . and can he say any thing to the contrary ? some things are so plain , as that with the meer reading of them , they are immediately understood ; others require attention and consideration , and yet be plain , though not equally as plain as the former . the answerer further proceeded to shew the mind ought to be clear'd from prejudices . and doth this detract any thing from the perspicuity of scriptures ? for the propositions may be plain , but yet be obscure to him that is under prepossessions , as was shewed at large in the answer . all which were there sum'd up thus , if men come with an honest heart , and use a competent diligence , with a dependence upon god's assistance for the wisdom he hath promised , i know nothing necessary to salvation but what is plainly taught in scripture , and may be learn'd from it . what hath the prover to say to this ? such promises [ of obtaining wisdom from god ] i find made to the church , but not to any particular that shall refuse to be absolutely guided by the church . but is not this promise made to particulars without any mention of the church , that he is to learn it from ? what thinks he of the place the answerer had his eye upon ? jam. . . if any of you lack wisdom , let him ask of god , and it shall be given him . what of joh. . . if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine , whether it be of god ? now it should have been , according to our author's projection , if any man lack wisdom , or would know whether the doctrine be of god , let him go to the infallible church , to the vicar of christ , or a council called by him , or to the guides of that church . for unless the scripture be explain'd by some one that cannot err , it cannot be understood ; and ye will dangerously err by reading it , as bellarmin argues . and yet whether there be such a church , or whether the church pretending to it , be not a fallible , and what is worse , a deceiving church ; or whether the guides be not false ones ; a man cannot be so much as morally sure , without he consult and understand the scripture ; and when all is done ( according to this author's way of arguing ) he may very well be one of those who wrest the scripture to his own perdition , and consequently hath no good ground for any one act of faith ; or can be certain that there is a church , or this or that is the true church , &c. this paragraph of his is a kind of jargon . but it affords occasion to put it to him , who are the false teachers , those that with the pharisees set up tradition to an equal authority with scripture ; or those that maintain scripture alone to be of divine authority ? those that make scripture to depend upon the church ; or those that make the church to depend upon scripture ? those that teach we are absolutely to submit to the church and the guides of it ; or those that with the apostle direct us to follow them only as they follow christ , cor. . ? those that say men err by reading the scriptures , and so take away from them that key of knowledg ; or those that with our saviour teach them they err for not knowing them , mat. . ? those that discourage men from reading the scriptures , because of their pretended obscurity ; or those that with our saviour require that they search them , and that because they are ( as the psalmist saith ) a light to their paths ? those that , with the fathers , hold the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation , may be clearly proved from scripture ; or those that make them to depend upon church authority ? those that derive theirs down for a thousand years after christ , without any proof from scripture and precedent antiquity ; or those that reformed their church years after christ , but can deduce the genealogy of their doctrines from scripture and genuine antiquity for , , and years after ? i ask him again , who are the hereticks ( in the sense he gives us ) those that with the donatists in st. austin's time confine the church to their own party ; or those that with the apostle , comprehend in it all that in every place call upon the name of jesus christ our lord both theirs and ours , cor. . ? those that exclude the whole world if not of their corrupt communion ; or those that , according to his quotation from st. austin , maintain a communion with the whole world ? methinks , after all he might , to return his own words , be as much afraid to mention that word heretic , as a murtherer to come up to the murther'd corps , considering what havoc and devastation they have made amongst those they have call'd by that name . i shall give him quotation for quotation from st. austin , and so conclude this question : it suffices us , that we hold that church which is demonstrated by most manifest testimonies of the holy and canonical scripture . and again , shew that there is some clear and manifest testimony given from holy canonical scriptures to this thy communion , and i do confess we are to go over to thee . q. . what are the necessaries to salvation ? here plain and full scripture will be of great use ; we may expect shoals of texts : what answer from scripture is given to this question , think you ? e'en the same as honest bays returns to a hard one in the rehearsal , ygad i won't tell you . no , he gives not one word of answer to it , tho it be so material . any one may guess at the reason , without casting a figure . with what confidence can the prover thus impose upon the reader ? was there not one word of answer returned to this question ? of that let the answer speak ; where it 's thus put , q. . what are these necessaries to salvation ? the answer begins thus . our author offers three instances of such necessaries as are not clearly revealed in scripture , viz. the trinity , the incarnation of our saviour , and the observation of the lords day . and of these , the answerer discourses for near eight pages together , to shew that the addresser had to little purpose objected against them . so that if the trinity , and incarnation , and the lord's day , are necessaries , and for that reason were singled out as instances of the scriptures insufficiency and obscurity by the addresser , and on the contrary were defended by the answerer ; then surely , the d question no more wants an answer , than the prover wants confidence that denies it . he writes indeed , as if the question was barely proposed in the answer , and he has used some art to confirm it , when he has made as many questions as there are instances , viz. of the trinity , incarnation , and the lord's day : so that question the th , in the answer , is question the th in the proof . and this he does , that the reader , if he has not the answer before him , may not be aware of his falsification , nor suspect that a man that first of all writes for the publick , and then engaged to set down the questions in the order of the answerer , could be so false to both , as to affirm , there is not one word of answer . q 't is in its whole extent this ; by what text of scripture are we plainly taught that god is one in substance , three in person ? for as joh. . christ says , i and my father are one ; so . . he prays , that all believers may be one , as he and his father are one ; this second place may seem to expound the first , and then christ and his father will be one only morally , as all the believers be one. or else , what texts declares the three persons to be one by identity of substance ? ans . not one text of scripture to give us the dubious sense of the two in question ! and yet these men pretend to clear scripture for each fundamental point ! the answerer supplies this want of scripture with two reasons . the first is this , of the three that bear record in heaven , `t is said they are one ; but of the three that bear witness on earth , they agree in one . ( i will admit this english translation , tho apocryphal . ) but what then ? but if in both were meant only a moral vnion , it would have been as well said of the three that bear record in heaven , they agree in one ; therefore they have more than a moral vnion . is not this special logic ? would not this way of arguing prove equally that the believers are one with more than a moral union , because otherwise it might as w●ll have been said , joh. . may they agree in one . the question is , whether this second clear text concerning the three that bear witness on earth , and which we know to be only morally one , doth not expound what that unity is , that is found in the three which bear record in heaven ? we ask a proof out of scripture to decide this doubt ; but our answerer hath none to give us , or is grown churlish , and will not allow us any . hath he any to expound the other text ? no , not any ; but he offers at some insinuation from scripture , and `t is this : when christ said , i and my father are one , the jews took up stones to stone him for blasphemy , because that thou being a man ( said they ) makest thy self god : the jews then understood him to have spoken of a natural vnion , therefore he did so . well , i will let my good nature work upon me once , and for quiets sake i will let this discourse pass as allowable ; but in return of curtesy i hope each sober protestant will own this following argument to be of at least as good alloy ; when christ said , joh. . unless you eat the flesh of the son of man , you have no life in you ; the jews , who said , how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? and his disciples , who walked no more with him , understood that he spake of his natural body which they should corporally eat ; therefore christ did really mean they should corporally feed on his natural flesh . this popish conclusion is in the same form. this is the first instance of scripture's obscurity in matters necessary , offered by the addresser : and here the answerer shewed in general , how frivolous and absurd the way of arguing used on this matter , by that author , was ; ( to which we have not a word of reply ) and then particularly , that the two scriptures , viz. john . . and john . . usually insisted on amongst others in proof of the doctrine of the trinity , remain in their full force , notwithstanding what the addresser had objected against them . but to this the prover now replies , there is not one text of scripture to give us the dubious sense of the two in question . what means he ? would he have texts to prove the father , the word and holy ghost , to be three divine persons ? that was not the answerer's part to prove ; or if it was , he might send him to his friend bellarmin , who in proof of the deity of our saviour , has collected about texts of the old and new testament . would he have some chapter and verse , where are these or the like words , the word one , in the first epistle of st. john ; item , in st. john 's gospel , signifies a strict identity ; yes by all means , for saith the addresser , this ought to be , if all necessaries to salvation are contained in scripture . i thought our author might by this time have been sensible of this weakness ; certainly this gentleman's condition calls for some commiseration ; and he would do well to advise upon it , whether the scripture was originally divided into chapter and verse ; and whether hugo cardinalis , and robert stephens , were not very ignorant , or unadvised to labour in this work anew , if so it had been . but is there no other way to give the sense of these texts ? suppose we consider the words and phrases , the context and scope of the places in question , and compare them with others , and from all draw some good and substantial reasons ; will not that be as proper , and as much to the purpose , as if we had chapter and verse in his way ? and this was the way taken by the answerer . as for example , in john . . . it was there observed , that it 's as plainly said the father , the word , and the holy ghost , are one , as that they are three . . that the union betwixt these three , was not a mere moral union , or a union only of will and consent ; for the apostle makes a plain difference betwixt the three that bear record in heaven , and the three that bear witness in earth : for of the three in heaven , it 's said , they are one ; but of the three in earth , they agree in one . of this the prover saith , i will admit this english translation [ agree in one ] tho apocryphal . why an english translation ? or why apocryphal ? unless it be that it 's nor verbatim , according to what they call the authentick vulgar translation . for otherwise their own clarius and bellarmin , &c. do thus translate it , conveniunt in unum , & conspirant in unum . but admit this , saith he , what then ? then the answerer thus proceeded in his argument , now if it had been a mere moral vnion that was betwixt the father , the word , and the holy ghost ( who are the three in heaven ) it would have been as well said of them as of the spirit , the water and the blood ( which are the three in earth ) that they agree in one . here the prover exults . is not this special logic ? would not this way of arguing prove equally , that the believers are one , with more than a moral vnion ; because , otherwise it might as well have been said joh. . may they agree in one ? as for the logic , it is bellarmin's as well as the answerer's , who from the different phrases 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thus argues , whence you may plainly see , that the spirit , water , and blood , are not one , ( as the father , the word , and the holy ghost ) but only do agree in one testimony . and as for the inference the prover makes , would not this way of arguing prove , &c. i answer , the case is not alike . for , . the force of the argument doth not lie merely upon the difference of phrase ( for both bellarmin and the answerer knew how one is sometimes applied to a moral union , as john . ) but upon its being used in this place by way of distinction betwixt things of a different nature ; for proof of which it 's to be observed , that the apostle designing to shew the validity of the testimony given to the son of god , v. . which was twofold ; he further amplifies this , and distinctly speaks to each of them , ver . . and tho both do give testimony to the same truth , yet one in an higher , and the other in a lower degree . as , ( . ) there are three that bear record in heaven , and three in earth . ( . ) the three in heaven are one , and the three in earth agree in one. by which way of arguing , and the distinction observed betwixt them , the ▪ apostle shows , that the three that bear record in heaven , are not more different in their nature and place from the three in earth , than in their union : that they are both alike three , and both alike in their testimony , but that the one are in heaven , the other in earth : the three in heaven are one , but the three in earth agree in one : so that the three in earth are no more one , as the three in heaven , than the three that bear record in earth , are the three that bear record in heaven . . in confirmation of this , it 's observable , that one of these phrases is more fit to express a natural than a moral union ; that is , they are one , doth more aptly express it , than they agree in one : and therefore whereas they are one , may sometimes signifie a moral union , and may then be interpreted by , they agree in one ; yet agree in one cannot be interpreted by , they are one. . from hence we have an answer to that question of his , whether this second clear text concerning the three that bear witness on earth , and which we know to be only morally one , doth not expound what that vnity is that is found in the three which bear record in heaven : i answer , no ; for tho one sometimes signifies a moral union , yet here , if so understood , it would quite destroy that distinction betwixt the one three , and the other , and the preference that the one three had above the other three in their union . . by this we are prepared also to answer to his other argument , when he saith , that when our saviour prays , john . . that all believers may be one , as he and his father are one , may seem to expound , john . . i and my father are one : and then christ and his father will be one only morally , as all the believers are one . in answer to which , . it 's granted that the father and the son may be said to be one in a moral sense , as one in consent . but , . it doth not follow , that because the father and son are thus one , that therefore they are no otherwise one ; and that all believers are as much one , as the father and son are one. . it 's evident from what is spoke by way of explication in that place , that it 's otherwise ; for when ver . . christ prays , that they may be one as we are one , it 's added ver . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the same phrase as john . . ) that they may be made perfect in one ; implying that the unity betwixt believers , is of another nature than the unity betwixt the father and the son. . the union of believers in john . cannot be applied to the union betwixt the father and the son , in john . . because this latter is a union of essence , as well as will : and for confirmation of this , the answerer offered an argument from the text it self ; to take off the force of which , the prover in repeating it , leaves out a main branch of it ; for thus he frames it for the answerer ; when christ said , i and my father are one , the jews took up stones to stone him for blasphemy , because that thou being a man ( said they ) makest thy self god ; the jews then understood him to have spoken of a natural vnion , therefore he did so . but the inference in the answer was this , it follows that neither did our saviour speak , nor the jews understand him to have spoken of a moral , but a natural vnion . the first and the main branch was , that our saviour himself spoke of a natural union ; the next was , that the jews understood him also to have spoken of it : and for the first , i referred him to the book , called , the doctrine of the trinity and transubstantiation compared ; but it wants an answer , and so he cautiously takes no notice of it . but because he is herein so reserved , let me recommend him to his friend bellarmin , who concludes this argument with , constat eos rectè intellexisse , it 's evident , the jews rightly understood our saviour . but it seems this advice comes too late ; for faith he , i will let my good nature ( i wish he could say sincerity ) work upon me for once ; and for quiets sake , i will let this discourse pass as allowable . whence is it that all o' th' sudden he is in so good a humour , and so forward in his allowances ? the good man could not contain himself longer ; for from a small advantage he espied ( and which is somewhat rare with them now-a-days , and therefore not to be let slip ) he will yield , tho the thing he yields be never so impertinent and absurd . let this pass ; what then ? in return of courtesie , saith he , i hope each sober protestant will own this following argument to be at least of as good alloy : when christ said , john . vnless you eat the flesh , &c. the jews , &c. understood that he spake of his natural body , therefore christ did really mean they should corporally feed on his natural flesh . but surely sober protestants are for reason , pertinence , and sincerity ; but however , his argument shall be allowable , if he can make it as evident the jews did not mistake when they understood christ spake of his natural flesh , and a corporal feeding on it : as it may be made appear , they did not mistake him , when they thought by his calling himself the son of god , that he meant he was essentially of the same nature , and one with god. q ▪ . is the mystery of the incarnation of christ clearly exprest in scripture ? or can it be clearly made out by scripture , that those words , john . the word was made flesh , own'd by all christians to be true , are to be understood in such sense , that both natures were in one person , so that what is said of the man christ jesus , be truly said of the son of god ; for example , that the b. virgin was mother of god ; and not as the nestorians understood them , to wit , that christ was indeed a true man , made of the seed of david ; and that the eternal word , true god , was indeed in him , but not by a strict personal union ? ans . not one word from scripture . what indeed all the nestorians supposed , he proves ; but as to the unity of one person uniting these two natures , not one word . this man ( any one may see ) is of those who take the nestorians to be a part of the catholick church ; and no one will grudge their congregation the title of such a part of the catholick church , that is , a member severed from the one body of christ . the prover saith , what all the nestorians supposcd he proves , but as to the vnity of one person , &c. not one word . put case the answerer had proved no more than what our author now saith nestorius supposed , if he proved what was sufficient to confute what the addresser supposed for nestorius ; and then the answerer could , as far as the addresser then knew , be no nestorian . let us then see how the addresser represented this heresie . nestorius , saith he , and others denied that word ( is made flesh ) to signifie a strict incarnation . but what then did he and others hold ? but either a moral vnion , or a meer external appearance of a man. he tells us not whether both of these , or which of these was the opinion of nestorius ; but i shall not take this advantage , but suppose he meant the first , a moral vnion : and what is that ? he tells us ( p. . and as quoted in the answer , p. . ) that is , he was a man who had the authority of god as his plenipotentiary . where first , his account of a moral vnion is very extravagant ; as if the being employed by another , would make him , for that reason , to be morally one with him that employs him ; but that author is to be pardoned , who understands not the difference betwixt a moral and political union . and again , he shewed himself not acquainted with the matter of fact , when he saith the heresie of nestorius consisted in this , that he denied christ to be united to the word , otherwise than morally ; whereas st. cyril saith , he granted that emanuel , or christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was constituted and compounded of the word of god , and an intelligent soul and a body . but then , saith he , he divided one christ into two ; so that he that is born of the virgin , is perfect man , and the other the word of god ; the one mere man , the other true god : the word , the true and eternal son of god ; but that which is born of the virgin is equivocally the son of god. thus that father . but he will say i am now better informed : thanks to the answerer , who gently intimated to him , that he was out of the way ; and to his friend that has since set him in the right . but after all , was there not one word in the answer as to the vnity of one person , uniting these two natures ? let him but cast his eye upon it again , and he will see this to be the conclusion of the argument , then there must be in him ( christ ) two natures united , which is the incarnation . if the incarnation be the union of two natures in christ , the word , and this was rightly inferred from what went before ; then what shall i say ? our author has not dealt fairly with his adversary : and if this be to be a nestorian , then so was st. cyril , so was the couneil that condemncd him ; for so st. cyril describes the incarnation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; when the word was united to a body informed by a rational soul. q. . the first branch of this question is , what scripture hath absolved us from obeying one of the commandments , which imposes the keeping of saturday holy ? the second , what text of scripture exacts of us the keeping holy ( as the lords day ) the sunday ? ans . to the first part , not one word of scripture ; and for excuse he tells us , that there was no need of an express abrogation , because sunday being set apart for the publick and solemn worship of god , the sabboth-day as well as the holy-days and new-moons of the jews , being a shadow , must surrender to the sunday . here is as little reason as scripture ; for the sabboth did appertain to the law of nature , and was not a shadow only of a thing to come , but a memory of the past , and never-to-be-forgotten benefit of the creation , from the work whereof god rested on that day , and blessed the seventh day . here 't is pity at what a loss the answerer is to find the chapter and verse wherein the abrogation of circumcision is clearly exprest ; 't is a charitable condescendency to instruct him ; let him look then in gal. . . where behold paul tells you , that if you be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . for the second part , he produces a text , rev. . . i was in spirit on the lords day ; then he flourishes to teach us ignorant people , that 't is usual in scripture , after that times , places , things and persons were set apart for the service of god by divine institution , to have his name as a mark of propriety given to them . but in the name of sense and reason , what means all this ? there is a lords day , no doubt ; st. john was in spirit that day , 't is certain ; but the question is , what day of the week was it ? or was it only some peculiar day of the year , as easter-day , or good-friday ? hath he scripture for this ? not one word . i find forty texts that call the day of general judgment , or that of each man's death , the lord's day ; but not one that mentions sunday under that name . i find , act. . . how they that believed were daily continuing with one accord in the temple , or breaking bread from house to house , but not a word of a day appointed for stated assemblies . scripture failing our adversary , he seeks supplies from reason ; but the misfortune is , that the first and chiefest he offers at , stands against him ; the moral sabboth ( says he ) in the patriarchal church , and the ceremonial in the jewish church , were on the days following the creation and deliverance from the slavery of aegypt . true , but what follows ? therefore 't is not to be kept by christians on the day in which christ rested after he had accomplish`d our redemption on the cross by a solemn consummatum est , and his precious death ? not on saturday ? raillery aside , what can be ( i will not say more dull , but ) spoken more directly in spight of sense and reason ? our author for convenience to himself , has transposed the questions ; so that the first in the address , is now the last . let him quietly enjoy the benefit of it ; i shall begin as he now begins . q. . what scripture hath absolved us from , &c. to this i gave , in short , a threefold answer . . he requiring chapter and verse , i told him , when he could find out chapter and verse for an express and clear abrogation of circumcision , i would shew him chapter and verse for that of the sabbath . here out of his abundant charitable condescendency he vouchsafes to instruct me , and hands me to gal. . . where behold paul tells you , that if you be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . and yet i do not find there is a clear and express abrogation of it . an abrogation is a total abolition of it ; and if it was abrogated so as that whoever was thereafter circumcised , could have no profit by christ ; then all so circumcised were in a state of damnation . and here it would be fit to know when this abrogation did commence ? for act. . . we find paul to circumcise timothy ; and not long before st. paul's being a prisoner , and being carried to rome , the solemn assembly declared that there were many thousands of the jewish christians which were zealous of the law ; and that st. paul was reputed to be too forward in teaching the gentiles ought not to circumcise their children , act. . , . so that the apostle's censure of it is not to be universally understood ; but is only a preventing of their imposing it upon the gentiles , and requiring it as necessary to justification and salvation . and of these that held it thus necessary , he saith , if ye be circumcised , upon these terms , christ shall profit you nothing ; if ye are justified , and expect justification by the law , ye are fallen from grace , ver . . . i shewed there was no more a need of an express abrogation of the sabbath , than there was of the abrogation of circumcision ; because if the lord's day was instituted , and which in the order of the answer was first prov'd , the sabbath must in reason surrender to it . . i shewed it from col. . . where the sabbath is said to be a shadow of things to come , and so was to cease by the coming of christ , as the rest of the same kind . he saith of this , there is as little reason as scripture ; but if there be as much reason as scripture , he had no cause to complain : but he first takes care to leave out the scripture , and then to exclaim , not one word of scripture . well! what has he to say to that little reason that there is ? he saith , the sabboth did appertain to the law of nature , and was not a shadow only of a thing to come , but a memory [ he would say , a memorial ] of the creation . but did it otherwise appertain to the law of nature , than as it was of divine institution ? or , was it then so a memorial of what was past , as not to be a shadow of somewhat to come ? let him see how the apostle applies it , heb. . , . but , suppose that it was a memorial of the creation ( as it was ) and a shadow to the jews ( as he owns ) then being both were but one and the same day , how could the observation of the sabbath be abrogated as a shadow , and not also as a memorial , since the same day that was for the one , was also for the other ? thus we find there was a patriarchal circumcision , and a mosaical , as our saviour shews , john ▪ . . and the question then is , whether the abrogation of the mosaical , was not also the abrogation of the patriarchal circumcision ? and , whether what holds in the one , doth not hold in the other . d branch , what text of scripture exacts of us the keeping the sunday holy ? or what scripture have we for the divine institution of it ? as to this by way of preparation , i. . gave a general reason , which our author for a little advantage , has set last , and very unworthily abused . i shall set them one against the other , before the reader . answer . there is as much in the reason of the thing for this peculiar day to be observed in the christian church , as there was for the sabbath in the patriarchal and jewish church ; for what the moral sabbath was to man upon his creation ; and the ceremonial sabbath was to the jews upon their deliverance out of egypt ; that is the first day of the week , or the lord's day to christians upon our redemption by christ , which was accomplished and testified in his resurrection on that day . clear proof . the moral sabbath in the patriarchal church , and the ceremonial in the jewish church , were on the days following the creation and deliverance from egypt . therefore 't is not to be kept by christians on the day in which christ rested after he had accomplished our redemption on the cross , by a solemn consummatum est , and his precious death ? not on saturday ? and then he triumphs , what can be ( i will not say more dull , but ) spoken more directly in spight of sense and reason ? and i will add , what can be more false , than what he here puts upon the answerer ( and that is somewhat a worse charge than dulness ) when in spight of honesty , he shall thus manifestly pervert that which lay clear before him , into ridiculous nonsense ? it 's manifest , he has here nothing to say , unless he will say , there is not as much reason in the nature of the thing , for the observation of one day in seven , in memory of our redemption , as there was for it in the creation , or the deliverance out of egypt . . i particularly proved it from the mark of divine institution set upon it , in the name , the lord's day , rev. . . it being usual in scripture to have the name of the lord applied to times , places , persons and things , when set apart by divine institution . to this he replies . the question is , what day of the week that was in the revelation ? or , was it only some peculiar day of the year , as easter-day , or good-friday ? to which i answer . . if the name of the lord be not without a reason applied to a day , then it 's evident that no day of the week has any colour or pretence to it , but the first day . . it cannot be reasonably supposed to be some peculiar day of the year , as easter-day , or good-friday . ( . ) because we are certain , that the first day of the week was observed in apostolical times ( as i shewed from scripture ) but we are not certain of these ; there being not one word of scripture , that looks that way . and when st. austin saith of the anniversary observation of the days of christ's passion , resurrection , ascension , and the descent of the holy ghost , that they were observed in the whole world ; he adds , it 's to be belived such things so observed , were commanded and appointed by the apostles , or general councils . he saith , it 's to be believed they were appointed by one or the other ; not being able to determine which ; but we know that there was no general council till above years after christ . ( . ) easter-day ( which has the nearest pretence both in reason and antiquity ) cannot be the lord's day , because they were distinguished . so st. austin , we ( saith he ) solemnly celebrate the lord's day , and easter . and the eastern churches , particularly , that of ephesus ( where st. john more especally was , did observe easter according to the moon , and not the day of the week ; and that so early , as an. . when polycrates bishop of ephesus , and a council of bishops concurring with him , wrote to victor bishop of rome , who threatned to excommunicate them for it ; that they feared him not , for it was better to obey god than man. as for good-friday's being the lord's day , that i believe is a nostrum of our author's , as well as the question put by him , is , what day of the week the lords day is on ? . he answers , i find forty texts that call the day of general judgment , or that of each man's death , the lords day , but not one that mentions sunday under that name . what follows ? therefore the lord's day st. john was in the spirit upon , was the day of judgment or death , and not sunday . but he will say this is a little too much ; for the use he makes of this observation , is to shew , that that day , whatever it was , might be called the lord's day , and yet not be of divine institution . very well : but yet i find the day of judgment , ( for indeed the day of death is not , as far as i remember , call'd the lord's day in scripture ) to be of divine ordination : so matth. . . and acts . . he hath appointed a day ; and is therefore a confirmation of what he would confute by it . . i offer'd further in proof of a divine institution , that that day was consecrated by the descent of the holy ghost upon it . but to this he found nothing to reply . . i proved it from the observation of that day , and the service celebrated upon it , act. . . cor. . . what has he here to say ? i find , acts . . saith he , how they that believed were daily continuing in the temple ; but not a word of a day appointed for solemn assemblies . what use can be made of this accurate observation , and the stress he lays upon daily ; what but this ? the believers daily resorted to the temple , therefore they had no peculiar day ; and so it follows most admirably , the jews daily repaired to the temple , therefore they had no peculiar day , no sabbath . but he finds not a word of a day appointed for stated assemblies , no not so much as acts . . &c. quoted and insisted on in the answer . having thus dismiss'd the third question of the answer , with all the supernumerary questions collected out of it by the prover ; i went to look for question the fourth , as it is in the answer , and put by the addresser ; and that is , whether it be necessary to salvation for him to believe the trinity and incarnation , that cannot find them clearly express'd in scripture , though he reads it sincerely , and with humility . but of this , not a word . we may guess at the reason without casting a figure . however , it 's a little more honest to omit a paragraph , than it is to pervert it . the former is an implicit acknowledgment of truth , the latter is a renouncing it . q. . am i bound to believe ( the sense given to a doubtful text ) because my guides tell me i must do so ? ans . no , plainly no : and he hath two texts for it ; the first , cor. . . not for that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers , says st. paul ; and mat. . . call no man master on earth , for one is your master . here not only the walls of the city of god are broken down , but the very foundations ( of prophets and apostles ) are digg'd up ; is it all st. paul could do , all you allow him , to give some light , some helps , when his proselytes had any doubt about the sense of scripture ? were they not oblig'd to believe the sense and interpretation he gave to the text ? then that faith is vain which was founded on the apostles preaching , and all christianity stands on a wrong bottom . here our author is guilty of another omission ; for the answerer exhibited a five-fold charge against him of fallacy and collusion , which he has taken no manner of care to clear himself of ; but suffers it to remain in its full force against himself . he has indeed proceeded otherwise in this last question ; for whereas before in the address he set up a guide that is a judge , whom it's necessary so to believe , and to submit to , as to receive from him such necessaries to salvation as are not contained in scripture , and the sense of such necessaries as are not clearly contained in it ; he now in the proof softens , and extenuates , and expounds , and the question now is reduced to this , am i bound to believe the sense given to doubtful texts , because my guide tells me i must do so ? this indeed may better serve his purpose , but after all is neither true in it self , nor can be accommodated to his former notion of a guide , and the authority given to him . for what has doubtful texts to do with the case , where there are no texts concerned ? what has a sense given to scripture , to do with a case which is to be determined without scripture ; as it is in necessaries not contained in scripture , and which we are to learn from our guide that we are bound to follow ? but supposing we take his exposition , that this is when the texts be doubtful ; yet the things those texts are supposed to be concerned in , are things necessary to salvation ; and so to believe a guide absolutely , as to the sense of a doubtful text , is equivalent to the believing him where there is no text pretended . since the person in doubt is no more assur'd of the sense of these texts in a point necessary , than he was without a text. for when there is no text for a thing necessary , he absolutely relies upon his guide , who tells him , it is necessary : and when there is a sense given to a doubtful text , he believes that sense , because his guide tells him that is the sense of it , and so he still relies upon his guide ; and his faith is thus immediately resolved into the guide . and it seems this the answerer doth deny , and that upon the authority of our saviour , who disallows it , mat. . . and the apostle who disclaims it , cor. . . but here our author is beside all patience , and answers it with a dreadful exclamation . here , not only the walls of the city of god are broken down , but the very foundations of prophets and apostles are digg'd up . and why so ? because we will not admit a guide of their own imposition , in defiance of our saviour's and st. paul's prohibition to the contrary . but o , saith our author , is it all st. paul could do , all you allow him , to give some light , some helps , when his proselytes had any doubt about the sense of scripture ? were they not obliged to believe the sense and interpretation he gave to the text ? then , &c. here the prover is either confounded in his own thoughts , or intends to confound and amuse his reader . the opinion he maintains is , that in matters of doubt , a person doubting is to be absolutely concluded by his guide ; i am to believe , saith he , because my guides tell me i must do so . now he would have it , that to deny this authority to the apostles , is to allow them only to give some light , some helps , that is , ( as i conceive he means ) to make them no more than common teachers . but i shall endeavour , if it may be , to set our author right in this matter . toward which it 's to be observed , . that there is an absolute and sovereign authority in the church , which all are bound to follow , believe and obey , without any dispute , and that authority is soly the prerogative of our saviour , and which no man , or society of men can claim , mat. . , . . there is a subordinate authority , which is immediately derived from him ; and this was peculiar to inspired persons , and is extraordinary . so the apostle saith of himself , gal. . , . the gospel which was preached of me , is not after man ; for i neither received it of man , neither was i taught it but by the revelation of jesus christ . but as such persons were sent , so they were able to prove their commission and their doctrine to be received from christ : and they did not require any to believe them , because they told them they were their guides , and they must believe them , because they tell them so ; ( for that was to have dominion over their faith ) but they appealed to the scriptures , to their miraculous gifts ; cor. . . and encouraged their auditors to try and examine their doctrines ; acts . . gal. . , . and this way of trying is so far from making faith vain ( as our author pretends ) that it would be vain without it . but , saith he , were not the proselytes of st. paul obliged to believe the sense and interpretation he gave to the text ? without doubt ; but then he did not require them to receive and believe it , because he told them so , but because it was revealed , and that they beforehand were satisfied in the confirmation he brought of his apostleship . for where there was a new revelation of any point to be believed , or matter to be done , being that could not be any farther examined by scripture than as it was not contrary to it , it wholly was to be resolved into his mission ; and they had the same reason to believe his doctrine , as his mission . . there is another sort of subordinate authority , which receives both its mission and doctrine in an ordinary way : and therefore must needs be subject to the like ways of tryal and proof as the former . but with this difference , that what inspired persons taught as revealed from god , that upon proof of their mission by miracles , cor. . . was to be believed : but now when we have only ordinary means , and the written word for our rule , there is no other doctrine to be received , than what is contained in that rule , and so neither can they oblige us , nor are we obliged to believe them , because they tell us so , but as it 's consonant with , or contained in , or rightly inferred from the scripture , which we are to compare it with , and to judge of it by . but now our author makes their guides not only equal , but superior to the apostles , when he tells us , we are bound to believe them , because they themselves tell us so ; and that without any examination . so that if a man mistakes his guide , or his guide mistakes , he must unavoidably mistake also , being wholly to be determined by them . and then he must be an arian with the popes felix and liberius , a nestorian with anastasius , a monothelite with honorius , and deny the immortality of the soul with john xxiii . and now let any judg where the foundations of the prophets and apostles are digg'd up ; whether in the reformed churches , that teach us we are not bound to believe any guide , without tryal of their doctrine ; or the church of rome , which , with our author , affirms we are bound to believe our guides , because they tell us we must do so . now our answerer takes his turn to ask questions . he tells us that for the first he has a pinching one : ` t is this ; if i must know the church by some marks or notes , then i must find these marks first ; and where must i seek them ? this is pinching indeed ! suppose in a gazette i should find some marks of a man that is sought for , were it not a severe objection against the man who gave them , and a pinching question , i must find these marks before i find the man ; and where shall i find them ? i conceive such pinching would force a smile , and this answer , why friend , the marks and the man are found at once , for they are to be seen in his face . at the same time as one takes a view of the catholic church , he sees therein a continual succession of bishops and teachers from the apostles ; he discovers her in all parts of the world , and finds her thus catholic ; he sees in her an undivided faith , union under one pastor in the use of the same sacraments , and finds her one ; he observes her rule is , let nothing be alter'd of what was receiv'd from the apostles by a constant universal tradition in the churches which they founded , and is convinced she is apostolical ; he finds god favours her with the gift of miracles , promised mat. . and joh. . that she hath fulfilled the prophesies concerning the conversion of nations , converted to christianity by her children only ; and he concludes this is she . the prover saith that , now the answerer takes his turn to ask questions . and good reason , after the addresser had put so many before . he tells us further , that for the first he has a pinching one . 't is this , if i must know the church by some marks , then i must find out those marks first ; and where must i seek them ? but , why is this called the first question when there are several before it ? he might better have called it the only question , since it's what he has singled out of many to try the power of his logic upon . and now let us see how he quits himself , when he comes to be respondent . his answer to the question , is , suppose in a gazette , &c. and the marks , and the man are found at once , for they are to be seen in his face . where his whole business is to go off from the question that is ask'd , to a question that is not ask'd . the main question in the answer was , how shall i find out the true church ? is it because she her self so declares ? or that she is knowable by a self-evident light ? or is she to be found out by marks ? if by marks , then we must find out the marks before we find out the church , which is to be known by those marks ; and then the pinching question comes on ; where must i seek them ? that , it 's to be fear'd , will lead us to the scriptures . now what is the sense of the question , where must i seek them ? certainly , it is not in dispute , whether the marks are not to be found in the thing sought for , by those marks ( as he impertinently lays it ) for if they are the proper marks of the thing ; then , surely , they are to be found with the thing that they are the marks of ; or else it is impossible to find out the thing by these marks . but the meaning of the question is the same as it was in the address , ( and from whence the answerer borrowed the terms ) and that is , where are the notes ? where are they described ? or , how shall i come to know them ? and thus it follows in the answer , it is to be feared , this will lead us to the scripture . but because some men are hard of understanding , whether for a weak or a bad reason , i determine not , i shall begin the matter again . it is agreed , that there is a church , and that there are certain marks by which the church may be found : now the question is , what are those marks ? whether continual succession , vniversal extent , vnion under one visible pastor , & c. ? or , the profession of the true faith , right administration of the sacraments ? now how shall we know , or where shall we find , which of these are the marks belonging to the church , and by which it is to be known ? i shall make it plain by his own instance ; supposing that there is somewhat of great importance depends upon finding out a particular person ; and that he that would find him out , knows not the man , but for his better direction applies himself to one that knows somewhat of this matter , and asks him , sir , how shall i find out such a man , or where may i seek the marks by which he may be discover'd ? would it not force a smile to have this answer ? do you ask that ? why friend , the marks and the man are found at once , for they are to be seen in his face . would he not be made much the wiser , by this grave reply ; and forthwith be able to find out the man he seeks for , by this goodly direction ? or would he not say , sir , i came not to be informed of that which every one that is not a stark fool understands as well as your worship ; but i would know , what are those marks which are to be seen in his face , and by which i may know him from your self , or any other , and where are they describ'd ? and will not the other , if he be able and willing to inform him , then tell him , the marks are in the gazette , and there you may find them . now , which is to be found out first , the marks or the man ? and what are those marks , and where must i seek them ? surely it needs no application . as for his triumphant marks of the church , he may find them answered to purpose in the book not long since published upon that argument . 't is also observable at what a distance these men are from the true church , who conceive it so hard to find her out . all holy fathers ever judged it a most easy thing to each person , insomuch that the holy doctor st. augustin thus delivers his sense of it : i tell you with truth , brethren , the prophets have spoken more obscurely of christ , than of the church ; i believe , because they saw in spirit , that men would make sects against the church , but would not be so much divided about christ . but 't is natural for a crimnal to question the power of his judge ; and these men know it hath ever been the sense of all christians , which st. augustin exprest in the following words ; there is no salvation out of the church , who doubts of it ? therefore whatever you have from the church ( seripture , creed , sacraments , &c ) help you not to salvation out of the church , whether you believe contrary to the truth , or being divided from the vnity , gather not with christ ; whence st. paul says to heretics , those who do such things , shall not possess the kingdom of heaven . he saith , 't is observable at what a distance men are from the true church , who conceive it so hard to find it out . but our distance from the true church , is not the more , because we conceive it so hard to find her out in their way , and by such marks ( which if there are no other ) it 's impossible to find her out by . but now , if we go in st. austins way , then it 's not difficult , for thus he determines it . the weak seeks for the church . the wandring seeks for the church . i inquire after the voice of the pastor . read this to me out of the prophet , and read it out of the psalms ; recite it from the law , the gospel , the apostle . look for it in the scripture , and there you will find it . here the prover cites a passage out of st. austin , which i am confident he did not read there . for ( . ) he quotes the th book of st. austin , de vnitate , whereas there is but one book in all . ( . ) there are several mistakes in the quotation it self . as he saith , there is no salvation out of the church , who doubts of it ? whereas the words of st. austin are , qui autem super arenam aedificant [ i. e. qui audiunt verba & non faciunt , as just before ] quis dubitaverit , quod regnum dei non possidebunt ? that is , but those who build upon the sand , who doubts that they shall not possess the kingdom of heaven ? again the prover reads it , whatever you have from the church ( scripture , creed , sacraments , &c. ) help you not to salvation out of the church . whereas there is nothing of this , but it follows after what was said of the builders on the sand , nihil utique prodest baptismi sacramentum , that is , so that the sacrament of baptism profits not such . and then he quotes that of st. paul , those which do such things , &c. without that other insertion of his , whether you believe contrary to the truth , &c. the matters are not much material ; but by this the reader may judg what a careless , injudicious , or confident ( to say no worse ) adversary i have to deal with . his other queries have no difficulty , and withal so little of sense , that i shall not offer to force my readers attention on them . whether the other queries had any sense , i shall leave to others to judg ; but however , because they may not be so easie to others , as to himself , it is to be wished he had shewed a little more of his good nature , and condescendency , to have resolved them . i shall try once again , whether i can make sense of them , and leave him to try whether he can answer them : if they are not sense , they are not to be understood , and so there can be no hurt to propose them : if they have no difficulty , they are the easier and the sooner answered . the queries propounded in the answer , and yet remaining to be resolved , are these . q. . what those necessaries to salvation are , that are not contained in scripture , and where each of them is to be found ? q. . whether the articles of pope pius's creed joined to the nicene creed , are as clearly to be proved from scripture , as those of the nicene creed ; or that those of the nicene creed are no more to be proved from scripture , than those of pope pius ? q. . whether it 's as necessary to believe the church of rome is the mother and mistress of all churches , and the pope to be the vicar of christ , and all the other articles of that creed , of pope pius , as it is to believe that our lord jesus was incarnate , and the rest of the articles of the nicene creed ? q. . which has the first and supreme authority , the scripture or the church ? q. . whether the church can ordain new articles of faith , and which when so ordained , are as much to be received and believed , as those which have their authority immediately from scripture ? q. . which is to be sought for first , the notes , or the church that is to be found out by these notes ? if the church , then how shall i know it ? if the notes , where must i seek them ? q. . if the church be to be an infallible guide , when it 's found out ; then what is the guide that will infallibly lead to the church ? and whether is that guide to be sought for within the church , or without it ? q. . whether we may be infallibly certain out of the church ; or how we can find out the church infallibly , if the church alone be infallible , and that we cannot be infallibly certain till we come into the church ? q. . where is the seat of infallibility in the church , whether in every particular person , or the supreme pastor , or a general council ? and whether they all agree in this matter ? q. . whether what they disagree in can be the sentiment of the whole church ; or that we are hound to believe what they cannot agree in ? q. . whether we are any more bound to believe the infallibility of their church , which they thus disagree in , than the address would perswade us we are not obliged to believe the trinity , because the arians , tho christians , deny it ? q. . how one at a vast distance of time or place , can be infallibly assured of the certainty of those decrees which are said to proceed from an infallible power ; or that he can be any more certain of the truth , certainty , and sense of these , than he can be of the truth , authority , and sense of scripture ? q. . whether our saviour has not spoken as plainly and intelligibly in scripture , as his pretended vicar , or their councils have done in their decrees and canons ? q. . whether , when the persons that publish or give the sense of those decrees and canons are fallible , a person can be infallibly certain that these are the very decrees , or that the true sense of them ? or whether a person in these circumstances can be any more certain , tho a member of an infallible church , than another may be , that is a member of a fallible church ? q. . whether , for example , we can be any more certain that there ever was such a pope as pope pius , or that ever there was such a creed drawn up by him , or that this or that is an article , or the sense of it , than we are that the scriptures are the word of god , and that the doctrines of the trinity and incarnation are clearly contained in them ? these are the questions in the answer , and which i have drawn out in order ; i hope they shew themselves to be sense ; it remains to the prover to shew they have no difficulty to be resolved . all well-meaning protestants finding that scripture interpreted the protestant-way is so far from being an easie and clear rule of faith , that a protestant in the answer to an address made to the ministets of the church of england , approved by a chaplain to the highest ecclesiastical authority under the king , cannot as much as teach by it the first principles of christian religion ; will seek a better method of using that divine rule , and not be hereafter so easily imposed upon by those guides who give them but their own private fancies , under the veil and name of the word of god. i was ( i confess ) surprized to find guil. needham , &c. approving this answer ; but god and truth are of our side ; et inimici nostri sunt judices ; the weakness of our opposers arguments bear a proof to it . ad majorem dei gloriam . i may now leave the case to all well-meaning protestants ; for who that is of that number , or indeed is impartial , but may soon discern , who they are that make the scripture a rule of faith ; whether those that resolve all necessaries to salvation wholly into it , or those that join tradition with it in esteem and authority ? they may again as soon discern , whether the scripture be easie and clear , and best understood in the protestant method , when it 's translated for vulgar use in the mother tongue , and the people are allowed and exhorted to read it ; or in the popish method , when it 's kept in an unknown tongue , or if translated , not permitted to be read by them ? whether again they feed them with their own private fancies , that teach the people nothing but what both teacher and hearer learn from scripture ; or they that make things necessary to be believed and done , which are not contained in scripture ? i find our author surpriz'd to find guil. needham , a chaplain to the highest eeclesiastical authority under the king ( we know who they are that set up an ecclesiastical authority above the king ) to approve the answer . but why so surprized ? when it 's likely g. n. was as confident as the prover could be on his own , that god and truth are on the answerer's side ; and perhaps might have a good opinion of his performance , though i grant , it 's likely , not as good as our author hath of his own clear proof . here i should have ended , but it seems the poor answer has met with another adversary , one ( as he himself tells us ) that at a full , mixed assembly in the city so laid it open , that most of the protestants there ashamed of it , found no better salvo than to disown the answerer as an ignorant scribler , who had betrayed his cause . i wish this successful undertaker had but given us a breviate of the case as he propounded it to that assembly ; for if he managed it in the same way as his friend the prover has done , or as he himself has answered the preservative , sometimes omitting , sometimes mangling , and at all times misrepresenting his adversaries arguments , i will for once excuse my friends the protestants , if they then thought the answerer worthy of no better a character than is here related ; who i hope for the future they will have less reason to believe an adversary ; and use that kind of liberty , which the church of rome so much envies them , and belongs to them as men and as christians , and judg for themselves , by seeing with their own eyes , whether the cause is maintained or betrayed . but after all , i know not whether i may not have as little reason to believe him concerning these protestants , as they had to believe him concerning the answer . finis . books lately printed for richard chiswell . the incurable scepticism of the church of rome . by the author of the [ six conferences concerning the eucharist . ] o. mr pulton considered in his sincerity , reasonings , authorities : or a just answer to what he hath hitherto published in his true account ; his true and full account of a conference , &c. his remarks ; and in them his pretended confutation of what he calls dr. t 's rule of faith. by th. tenison , d. d. a full view of the doctrines and practices of the ancient church relating to the eucharist , wholly different from those of the present roman church , and inconsistent with the belief of transubstantiation . being a sufficient confutation of consensus veterum , nubes testium , and other late collections of the fathers pretending to the contrary . o. an answer to the representer's reflections upon the state and view of the controversy ; with a reply to the vindicator's full answer , shewing that the vindicator has utterly ruin'd the new design of expounding and representing popery . o. an answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the church of england , o. an abridgment of the prerogatives of st. ann , mother of the mother of god , with the approbations of the doctors of paris , thence done into english , with a preface concernining the original of the story . the primitive fathers no papists , in answer to the nubes testium ; to which is added , a discourse concerning invocation of saints , in answer to the challenge of f. sabran the jesuit ; wherein is shewn , that invocation of saints was so far from being the practice , that it was expresly against the doctrine of the primitive fathers . o. an answer to a discourse concerning the celibacy of the clergy , lately printed at oxford . o. the virgin mary misrepresented by the roman church , in the traditions of that church concerning her life and glory , and in the devotions paid to her as the mother of god. both shewed out of the offices of that church , the lessons on her festivals , and from their allowed authors . dr. tenisons sermon of discretion in giving alms. o. a discourse concering the merits of good works . the enthusiasm of the church of rome , demonstrated in some observations upon the life of ignatius loyola , ( founder of the order of jesus ) . a vindication of the answer to the popish address presented to the ministers of the church of england . o. reflections upon the books of the holy scripture , in order to establish the truth of the christian religion , in parts . vo . in the press . the texts which the papists cite out of the bible for proof of the points of their religion , examin'd , and shew'd to be alledged without ground . in several distinct discourses , five whereof are published , viz. popery not founded in scripture . the introduction . texts concerning the obscurity of holy scripture . — of the insufficiency of scripture , and necessity of tradition . — of the supremacy of st. peter , and the pope , over the whole church . in two parts . — of infallibility . the rest will follow weekly , in their order . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e clear proof . vindication . clear proof . vindication . clear proof . de praesc . ep. . vindication . de verbo non scripto l. . c. . ss . dico secundo script . clear proof . vindication . clear proof . de doctr. ch. l. . c. . vindication . contr. liter . petiliani . l. . c. . clear proof . vindication . de verbo l. . c. . ss . respondeo ad primum . de verbo , l. . c. . ss . neque . ut supra . c. . ss . respondeo ad . c. . ss . septimo . clear proof . tim. . . tim. . . vindication . cap. . . quod autem . clear proof . luc. . . luc. . . vindication . clear proof . mat. . . in jo. l. . c. . l. . de bapt. cont . don c. . l ▪ con . gaud. in dim . h. vindication . de verbo l. . c. . ss . septimo . de unit. eccles . c. . c . clear proof . vindication . clear proof . vindication . de christo l. . c. , &c. de christo l. . c. . ss . quod autem . de christo l. . c. . ss . secundo probo . clear proof . vindication . epist . imper. theod. n. . concil . tom. . ad monach. aegypt . ss . . clear proof . gen. . . vindication . epist . . contr. adimant . c. . nova collectio concil . baluz . p. . clear proof . vindication . clear proof . vindication . clear proof . cc. . in psal . . de vnit . eccl. l . c. . gal. . vindication . de pastore , c. . clear proof . vindication . clear proof . vindication . an answer to dr. sherlock's preservative .