COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois, Chairman
JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa
DOUG BEREUTER, Nebraska
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey,
Vice Chairman
DAN BURTON, Indiana
ELTON GALLEGLY, California
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida
CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina
DANA ROHRABACHER, California
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California
PETER T. KING, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
AMO HOUGHTON, New York
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York
THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado
RON PAUL, Texas
NICK SMITH, Michigan
JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona
JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia
MARK GREEN, Wisconsin
JERRY WELLER, Illinois
MIKE PENCE, Indiana
THADDEUS G. McCOTTER, Michigan
WILLIAM J. JANKLOW, South Dakota
KATHERINE HARRIS, Florida
TOM LANTOS, California
HOWARD L. BERMAN, California
GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York
ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
Samoa
DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROBERT WEXLER, Florida
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
BARBARA LEE, California
JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York
JOSEPH M. HOEFFEL, Pennsylvania
EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon
SHELLEY BERKLEY, Nevada
GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California
ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
DIANE E. WATSON, California
ADAM SMITH, Washington
BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota
CHRIS BELL, Texas
Thomas E. Mooney, Sr., Staff Director/General Counsel
Robert R. KING, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST AND CENTRAL ASIA
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairwoman
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York
NICK SMITH, Michigan
JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia
MIKE PENCE, Indiana
THADDEUS G. McCOTTER, Michigan
WILLIAM J. JANKLOW, South Dakota
JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania
KATHERINE HARRIS, Florida
GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York
HOWARD L. BERMAN, California
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York
JOSEPH M. HOEFFEL, Pennsylvania
SHELLEY BERKLEY, Nevada
ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
CHRIS BELL, Texas
YLEEM POBLETE, Subcommittee Staff Director & Counsel
GREGG RICKMAN, Professional Staff Member
David ADAMs, Democratic Professional Staff Member
AMY SERCK, Staff Associate
(II)


SV 13 N \(6.4 & 2x
|||||||
765
C O N T E N T S
Page
WITNESSES
Th; Hºrable Deborah Pryce, a Representative in Congress from the State
O io … 6
The Honorable Darlene Hooley, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Oregon ….. 9
Major Alvin Schmidt, United States Marine Corps .............................................. 15
Dr. Athir Morad, Inova Fairfax Hospital ............................................................... 18
Dr. Maha Alattar, Assistant Professor at the University of North Carolina,
School of Medicine ................................................................................................ 21
Susannah Sirkin, Deputy Director of Physicians for Human Rights .................. 25
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
The Honorable Deborah Pryce: Prepared statement ............................................ 8
The Honorable Darlene Hooley: Prepared statement ........................................... 11
Dr. Athir Morad: Prepared statement ................................................................... 20
Dr. Maha Alattar: Prepared statement ................................................................. 23
Susannah Sirkin: Prepared statement ................................................................... 27
(III)


HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS UNDER SADDAM
HUSSEIN: VICTIMS SPEAK OUT
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2003
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST
AND CENTRAL ASIA,
COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:37 p.m. in Room
2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
(Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.
Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. The Subcommittee will come to order now
that the Honorable Debbie Pryce, the most powerful woman in the
House has walked into the room. She walks and the gavel pounds.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ackerman. Timing is everything and
she has got it. I want to thank the Members of the Subcommittee
for attending this important hearing this afternoon. First I would
like to tell our Members and people in the visitor spots that it looks
like our staff director, who is—timing is everything—she left the
room—Yleem Poblete might be going to John Bolton's office. So this
is Yleem's last day in the hearing with our Subcommittee and we
wish her well. She is going to be in charge of finding weapons of
mass destruction. So we wish her well. But the next brains of the
operation is going to be Gregg Rickman, who has been with us for
awhile. Gregg, take a bow. And then joining us will be Amy
Serck—where did Amy go? So welcome, welcome, welcome one and
all. We thank you all for the work that you do.
And today we are going to be discussing human rights violations
under Saddam Hussein's regime, and we thank Darlene Hooley,
who has just arrived, for joining us as well. We went on an incred-
ible CODEL focusing on women and empowering women in Iraq
and looking at many violations that occurred under this despotic
regime.
So that is what we are going to be discussing today. And as our
witnesses will soon explain, Saddam Hussein and his sons system-
atically violated the human rights of Iraqis and those of other
countries as well. They did so with utter disregard, operating a
vast enterprise encompassing at its worst mass graves, the use of
torture chambers, chemical baths, routine rapes, brutal and arbi-
trary murder including legitimizing killings and medical amputa-
tions as punishment.
In lesser cases, restrictions on social, legal and educational mo-
bility for women, arbitrary detentions in both crude prisons and
psychiatric facilities, collective punishment by association and the
(1)


Mr. Schiff
Mr. SCHIFF. Thank you, Madam Chair. I wasn't planning on
speaking, but just a couple of observations. One, I appreciate you
holding this hearing and calling attention to the human rights vio-
lations under Saddam Hussein which were really quite terrible and
phenomenal in their scope, particularly when you compare them
with human rights abuses in Bosnia and Kosovo, the magnitude we
had a chance to glimmer only a piece of in Iraq, a group of us a
couple months ago. The issue that has often come up in this con-
text is how does this bear on the decision to go to war? And on that
issue, I, like, Gary was in support of the resolution.
From my point of view, the resolution was predicated on the
weapons of mass destruction issue and not the human rights
abuses, as terrible as they were. And the discussion I think really
on both has to continue going forward, both to tell the untold story
of the human rights tragedy in Iraq, but also not to lose sight of
the predominant reason that Congress voted to authorize the use
of force, that is the chemical, bio and nuclear weapons programs.
And I think it is equally important that we not lose sight of that
motivation and the continued questions that have been raised on
intelligence issue.
Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Janklow.
Mr. JANKLOW. I have no opening comment.
Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Now I am so happy to introduce our two
Members of Congress who will be testifying about what they found
in their firsthand observations in Iraq. I would like to introduce
Congresswoman Debbie Pryce, one of my best friends in the House.
She has been a Member of Congress from Ohio since 1992. During
her time in Congress, she has quickly risen through the ranks. And
in November 2002, she was elected to the position of Republican
Conference Chair for the 108 Congress, making her the highest
ranking Republican woman ever to serve in the House of Rep-
resentatives. She is also a member of the board of trustees of the
John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. Could you get me
some tickets to that? And a member of the board of trustees for the
National Fund for the U.S. Botanical Gardens. In October she led
an important congressional delegation to Iraq, of which I was hon-
ored to join to examine the role of women in Iraq.
And we are also joined by the ranking Democrat on our trip,
Representative Darlene Hooley, who I had a pleasure of getting to
know during this time. She was elected to Congress in November
1996 to represent Oregon's 5th congressional district. She was se-
lected as Whip at Large and served in that role until this year
when she was named Senior Whip. You must have been very good
at whipping. Gary says he can show you the scars. She was re-
cently elevated to the executive council for the New Democratic Co-
alition.
Representative Hooley is a Member of the Financial, Services,
Budget and Veterans Affairs Committees. She joined us on our del-
egation trip to Iraq. And Congresswoman Pryce and Hooley will
discuss their observations. And then I know they need to go so we
will excuse them right after their remarks.
• Congresswoman Pryce.


6
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE DEBORAH PRYCE, A
REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO
Ms. PRYCE. Thank you, Madam Chairman and Mr. Ackerman
and Members of the Committee. It is a very big honor to be with
you today. I am very thankful for you inviting me to speak out on
an issue that should never fall on deaf ears, and that is the human
rights abuses in Iraq under the regime of Saddam Hussein. And it
is nice to know, Mr. Schiff, who said a minute ago he has been
there and I have heard that Mr. Chabot has been over and Madam
Chair, you have been there, and I don't know if Mr. Ackerman has
been or Mr. Janklow, but it is a trip worth taking to see firsthand
not only the human rights abuses, but the progress that is being
made as well. And it was an honor to head this delegation, bipar-
tisan delegation. We spent some very meaningful time with Iraqi
women, but also getting to know each other better and that was
a significant part of the trip I thought.
Last month, as I said, "...] the privilege of leading some distin-
guished Members of Congress on the first all-female delegation to
Iraq. Our mission focused on the post war condition of Iraqi
women, primarily. We examined and evaluated the current status
of health care, employment opportunities and the Iraqi women's
ability to º in their own newly forming political process.
What we found was a mix of inspiration and despair. While women
in post war Iraq make significant and inspiring headway on a daily
basis, they remain stunned in a post-traumatic state, sufferin
from the lasting ramifications of severe fºlº. and j
torture inflicted by a regime that brutally beat, butchered, raped
and abused women.
As a result, it may take many years before Iraqi women fully re-
gain stability and confidence and perhaps even an equal place in
their own society. Saddam's ruthless regime forced Iraqi women to
endure horrendous, intolerable cruelty, systematically employing
rape, torture and murder for political gain. For many—for example,
many human rights groups estimate that nearly 300,000 Iraqis dis-
appeared since the time Saddam took power in 1979. Thousands of
Iraqi women watched in horror as their families were brutally
slaughtered right before their eyes. Many of the men were jailed
or dragged from their homes in the middle of the night never to
return, their fates unknown.
While the wives of the missing Iraqi men struggled to put food
on the table, Saddam further complicated a woman's ability to pro-
vide for her fatherless family. He erected numerous barriers that
made it nearly impossible for a woman to work outside the home
and he forbade these women to remarry. Saddam systematically
º: family units, struck paralyzing fear in all of his people
and ultimately created living conditions so deplorable that Iraqis
could never gain the strength or the courage to rise up against the
regime.
As many women struggled to earn a living, Saddam decreed
prostitution a crime punishable by death in the 1990s and subse-
quently beheaded hundreds of alleged prostitutes. Such allegations
frequently baseless and often completely untrue went uninvesti-
gated. The beheadings, reported to have been carried by Saddam's
eldest son, Uday, took place in front of the victim's neighbors and


10
portant it is that we work with the Iraqi people to shape not just
their future, but the future of the entire Middle East.
Our Nation's foreign policy in this strife-torn region needs to
focus on promoting and advancing the cause of liberty both in the
short-term and long term. In my view, the best way to achieve this
goal is by promoting and nurturing democracy, assisting our allies
in combating terrorism and using our influence to bring enemies
together and help them find common ground. This can only be ac-
complished through continuing to build upon a coalition of our al-
lies and working with the United Nations. I am hopeful that we
can help the Iraqi people chart a new path, a peaceful democratic
path that will lead to the creation of an open and free democratic
society. However, we must take care to remember and apply the
lessons that we have learned in past conflicts such as Haiti and So-
malia as well as our most recent experiences in Afghanistan. We
must continue generating goodwill, not just among the native popu-
lation, but also among other countries in the region.
Without question, the stakes are high. Either we succeed and
build a democracy that will be a model for the Middle East or we
plunge this violent and weary region further down the path of ter-
ror, marking the success for the mortal enemies of freedom, human
rights and liberties. All of this served as a backdrop to our journey
to Iraq and was the lens through which we examined the process
of reconstructing, and in many ways constructing the foundations
of a new free Iraqi society. Specifically, we wanted to see firsthand
how the women of Iraq were succeeding at joining their male col-
leagues as well as the coalition provisional authority in seizing a
more prominent role in this new society.
It was clear to us from the beginning that one of the most dif-
ficult issues this new government will face is protecting and pro-
moting women's rights. Equality for women can only be achieved
when Iraqi women can walk the streets without fear of assault.
And let me tell you right now, they cannot walk the streets without
fear of assault. And they must realize their potential in whatever
fields they choose to pursue and are able to feel the sense of worth
to which they are entitled as human beings and equals and valued
members of Iraqi society.
Part of this process is to ensure the new Iraqi constitution spe-
cifically protects the human rights of all individuals, because that
was a sin before we went to Iraq and it is a sin we must overcome.
There are great risks associated with everyday life in Iraq. On top
of the dangers of speaking out as a woman, many of the women
we encountered, especially in Baghdad, were well educated and
deeply involved in the political process. But these were women who
told us stories about how they had watched their fathers being
murdered and tortured. These women told us stories about how
their brothers were being tortured and murdered.
Many of these women had gone into exile and were coming back
to help the Iraqi people. Iraqis continue struggling with how their
culture has traditionally viewed the role of women. And there are
many who would prefer not to have women in leadership roles in
their new government.
While I returned with many positive memories of our group's ex-
periences in Iraq, perhaps most important to me was the delega-


11
tion's visit to a training academy for recruits to the new Iraqi po-
lice force. During this visit, we met with a class of female recruits
who are on the verge of completing their training as police officers.
Many of the women in the academy have put themselves at great
risk by choosing this path. Unfortunately during our meeting with
these cadets, we were informed that budgetary constraints would
prevent their class from being activated as police officers. They
would not be going to work the next week. While it might be be-
yond the ability of Iraqi women to protest such a decision, we de-
. that as Members of Congress, we were not similarly hin-
ered.
After some gentle application of pressure to officials of the CPA,
we were able to show the authorities the error of their ways and
ensure that these women would achieve their goal of graduating
and becoming law enforcement officers. Without a doubt, this expe-
rience was the highlight of our trip. We were able to help make a
difference in helping the women of Iraq achieve one more step to-
ward equality. True, it was a small step but it is one that must be
taken over and over again, repeated thousands of times before they
can reach their goal of an open and free society.
Toward the end of our time in Iraq, we journeyed to the city of
Mosul where we met with a group of 30 women who were trying
to get involved in politics. They are currently focused on trying to
elect a woman to the Mosul city council. These struggles highlight
the difficulty that women face in changing traditions as you move
away from the power center of Baghdad and travelling to smaller
towns or more rural areas. The ultimate goal of the Mosul women's
group is to get women on the committee that will write the new
Iraqi constitution. The women I met were proud, incredibly brave,
people who were filled with the same hopes and aspirations all of
us are filled with and that is with human rights, with dignity.
They want an education for their child and their children. They
want to be able to make a living. They want to be able to provide
for themselves, not only now, but for generations to come.
In America, suffragettes fought for the universal right to vote in
a more free and open society and were finally victorious. I want to
tell you these women face a much tougher and more clearly threat-
ened battle. We must continue to support the women of Iraq. We
must encourage our military to put some pressure on them to make
sure that women are included and those things they have some
control over. We must stand up with them shoulder to shoulder
with encouragement as they overcome the tremendous obstacles to
fight for their rights in the new Iraq.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Hooley follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE DARLENE HOOLEY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OREGON
Last month I had the opportunity to travel to Iraq with seven other female mem-
bers of the US House of Representatives. As the first all-female delegation to travel
to Iraq since the U. S. coalition-led liberation, our delegation felt that it was impor-
tant for us to focus on encouraging Iraqi women to pursue opportunities to play a
larger role in the new and still-evolving Iraqi government.
During the time that we were in Iraq, I gained a great deal of understanding as
to how important it is that we work with the Iraqi people to shape not just their
future, but the future of the entire Middle East. Our nation's foreign policy in this
strife-torn region needs to focus on promoting and advancing the cause of liberty,


21
day to complete. Of course what is worse is that each one of us had left half of our
families behind, never to be seen again.
I would like to emphasize here that no members of my family were ever tried nor
charged with any crimes. We were law-abiding citizens of Iraq by birth.
Eventually, my mother and I reunited with my father in Iran and were able to
contact my brother in London for assistance in fleeing from the Iranian regime as
well. Fortunately, the United States accepted us and we have since become proud
American citizens.
The issue that remains foremost to my family is the thousands of Feili Kurdish
prisoners who are still unaccounted for. My parents have lived in tremendous an-
guish for over twenty years hoping for the day that the Saddam's government would
be overthrown, so that they might hear some news about my three brothers. Yet
we are months into the liberation of Iraq, and have heard nothing. Currently, the
United States has in custody former members of the Iraqi regime for interrogation
regarding weapons of mass destruction. Today, I plead that those same people be
asked the whereabouts of the thousands of Feili Kurdish prisoners so that my fam-
}. and families like ours may finally have closure on the horrors we suffered in
rao.
Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak with you today.
If anyone is interested in any further information or questions please contact my
family's website @ www.moradbrothers.com.
Mr. JANKLOW. Thank you very much, sir, and you did it exactly
in 5 minutes. Thank you very much. And now we will hear from
Dr. Maha Alattar, I believe it is, who is an assistant professor at
the University of North Carolina school of medicine.
STATEMENT OF DR. MAHA ALATTAR, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR
AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA, SCHOOL OF
MEDICINE
Dr. ALATTAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having me here and
thank you, Members of the House. I have two stories to tell. One
titled “Desecration of Bodies of Executed Prisoners” and the other
one is “A Project of Deportation and Extermination.” The first
story, “Desecration of Bodies of Executed Prisoners,” is a story that
my father told me and I have witnessed his agony while he went
through this experience. My father was an ophthalmologist in Iraq.
He was a prominent physician. He performed cornea transplants
for patients with cataracts in Iraq since the mid 1960s. Corneal
transplant is a procedure that involves the replacement of a dis-
eased cornea by a donor cornea.
Like kidney and liver transplants, the donor corneal tissue comes
from individuals who died and donate their organs for the benefit
of others. From 1980 until 1982, my father noted that the eyes that
were brought to him to obtain the corneal grafts were of very
healthy tissue. Usually you get eyes of individuals who passed
away and in their later years, but these were indicative of individ-
uals who were pretty young. Not only that, they were abundant.
Whenever he placed the patient on a list for organ donation for cor-
neal transplant, the eyes were made available to him. They came
to him in a bucket of ice in no time, something that was very rare
prior to 1980. He later learned that they obtained them from exe-
cuted young prisoners from a prison called Abu Ghuraib.
By the way, this prison held two of my own cousins, who we
don’t know their whereabouts. When he objected to using these
eyes and started to question, the chairman of the hospital advised
him to continue his work and not mention anything, otherwise he
would be killed. I remember the days when my father was ex-
tremely troubled by this and anxious. Other relatives of mine that


24
doesn't belong to them as long as they can use it. Who cares it was very cold
and raining heavily. My Mom said all we need to carry are a water thermos
she carried with her from the prison and canned food she hid in small bags.
She put a bunch of wool socks in our pockets and she put her mink coat on.
She was very careful from the Iraqi id: not to take it from her because she
hid some cash inside the coat's lining. We had to cross 3 rivers with frozen
water all on foot until we reached an abandoned village and there the Iraqi sol-
diers told us we have to spend the night there. They said we will shoot any one
who tries to continue walking. We joined a nice Kurdish family in a mud made
house and lit some fire to keep us worm. Then suddenly I hear women scream-
ing they're raping my girls please for the sake of God help and from another
directions we hear people screaming “they're stealing my money!". When my
Mom heard that she put me and my sister in one of the corners of the empty
room and covered us with a blanket and leaned her back on us and started
reading the Quran. She told us not to move or make any sounds. We couldn't
blink an eye. . . .
The morning was cold and gloomy my dad came back and said let's leave—
the village is on fire. The Iraqi soldiers had left us all a lone after the horror
they left behind. We have to continue following the crowd until we make it to
the Iranian Borders. Then Reality hit me. I saw a women with handkerchief
filled with blood rapped around her finger and the people were feeling pathetic
for her. It turned out that the Iraqi solders couldn't get her wedding ring out
so they had to amputate her finger. I could hear the Iraqi mesiles above our
heads directed to the Iranian side of the border. I could hear the tremblin
ground under our feet an indication of a land mine being stepped on. It starte
to rain heavily and no signs of the Iranian soldiers. We all i. to stop in
another village and spend the night there. That night the sky was filled with
fires. The next day was like the Judgment Day. You see the shattered bodies
of the people who stepped on the land mines. You smell the odor of death every-
where, kids were crying from hunger and cold, people were arguing which way
is the right way. . . . And still no sign of the }. border. Until the earl
evening we all heard a close-by-shots. At the beginning we were scared to deat
but they turned out to be a friendly fire that the Iranians were shooting to help
us follow the right directions. When we got there some of the Iranian soldiers
gave us their own food or shoes or fuel to lit huge fires keeping us warm but
at the same time they put us in what ever transportation they have to move
us all 2400 people to the back of the fire lines. In the meantime the Iraqis con-
tinued shooting their heavy missiles to make it hard on the Iranians to deal
with us. The next morning we got to a village where their women cooked a
warm meal for every one. f was like the most delicious treat that I ever have
in a long time. I am no longer hungry or cold or scared. . . . We made it.
Ten years later, we immigrated to Canada. All that time I contacted the office
of the §§ or the International Amnesty Org. Asking about my brother's where
about and another 5000 young men who were with him. But nothing came out.
I lost hope of finding my brother being alive still and never dared to admit that
fact to my mother who never enjoyed a meal or a gathering without remem-
bering him. Every time she prays, she cries her eyes out.
June2003 they found the name of my cosine Mazin Latif among the executed
ones and then some of the friends we º that they had the same case as my
brother they found their names. Names with no bodies. That's what they all got.
Nobody knows yet how they those men got killed. We're still searching for my
brother's name to confirm the tragedy. After all that wait, all we got is their
names being posted. I don't think any thing can describe the pain I contain in-
side. . . . Oct.2003 They found 3 of my cousins' names in the posted list of exe-
cuted.
II. DESECRATION OF BODIES OF EXECUTED PRISONERS
This second story is from father's experience as an ophthalmologist in Iraq. He
was a prominent physician. He performed corneal transplant for patients with cata-
ract since the mid 1960s. Corneal transplant is a procedure that involves the re-
placement of a diseased cornea by a donor cornea. Like kidney and liver trans-
plants, the donor corneal tissue comes from individuals who die and donate their
organs for the benefit of others. From 1980–82, my father noted that the eyes that
were brought to him to obtain the corneal grafts were of very healthy tissue. Not
only that, they were abundant. Whenever he placed a patient on a list for organ
donation for cornea transplant, the eyes were made available in no ...;
that was rare prior to 1980. He later learned that they obtained them from execute


36
the Army to remain in Iraq to help the Iraqis go through the whole
process, and they realize it is going to take a few years.
The other thing they want the Americans to do is to teach them
about democracy. This is the message that I got from these women
is teach us, help us, we want to learn. There is a great deal of hun-
ger for democracy. Actually one of the women said it best. She said
that you Americans probably don't appreciate democracy as much
as we do because you have it here. We have it in our heart, we just
don't have it in our hands, and we want you to help us put it in
our hands.
Mr. SMITH. So do I hear you suggest that the news media reports
that we see on our television that quote the Iraqis saying it is
worse now than it was under Saddam Hussein are very unique?
Dr. ALATTAR. Well, there are certain things that are worse. The
economical situation is worse. I have to say that. People are poorer.
But they also realize that this is a time of trial. They do not want
to go back to Saddam's time. But what they want is the Americans
to help them move forward. They are critical of certain issues that
the Administration is not carrying through, or is carrying through.
But that is not to suggest that the Iraqi people by any means do
not appreciate the CPA's efforts or the Administration's effort to
help the people as a whole to move forward.
Mr. SMITH. Okay, Dr. Morad, your reaction.
Dr. MORAD. Yeah. My mother just recently went to Iraq and I
asked her that same question when she returned. What is the atti-
tude really like in Baghdad? Are the people against the United
States as much as the media portrays it? And she said absolutely
not. Most everyone that she encountered all wanted America to
stay and get the job done fully. She even went to a southern city,
Najaf in southern Iraq, which is known to be a Shiite stronghold,
and she went to a prominent mosque there and there is a banner
in front of it that she said she saw that read “God bless the U.S.A.
for liberating us.” I have never seen that on the media, no channels
have shown that banner. But apparently it is hanging there, saying
“God bless the U.S.A. for liberating us.”
And in terms of the people, there are the terrorists who are
against the U.S., but there are a few. But also there are some of
the Baathists who are still lingering within society and they too,
you know, are the ones who are committing these terrorist acts
against the United States or the United Nations or the Red Cross,
as you have heard the recent bombings. Those are a minority group
and they are basically fighting for their lives because they know
their time is over and it is just a matter of time before they get
caught and are brought to justice.
Dr. ALATTAR. If I might say one quick thing, there is a perception
amongst the Iraqis following these bombings that the Americans
are “loose.” What that means is that they wish to see the Ameri-
cans with the help of the Iraqis to actually put a strong hand to
go after the Baathists regime, and the Iraqi perception now is that
the Americans haven't done a good job at actually really going after
those individuals. Maybe it is because it is politically incorrect. But
that is one of the ways that they feel that the trust is rifting away
between the Iraqi society and the Americans because the Ameri-
cans are not doing what the Iraqis wish, really wish would happen,