Mr. Pilkinton his Parallela disparalled And the Catholicke Roman faith maintained against Protestantisme. By Ant. Champney Sorbonist, and author of the Manuall of Controuersies, impugned by the said Mr. Pilkinton.
         Champney, Anthony, 1569?-1643?
      
       
         
           1620
        
      
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             Mr. Pilkinton his Parallela disparalled And the Catholicke Roman faith maintained against Protestantisme. By Ant. Champney Sorbonist, and author of the Manuall of Controuersies, impugned by the said Mr. Pilkinton.
             Champney, Anthony, 1569?-1643?
          
           220, [2] p.
           
             [C. Boscard] for Iohn Heigham,
             At S. Omers, :
             Anno 1620.
          
           
             Printer's name from STC.
             A reply to: Pilkington, Richard. Parallela.
             Running title reads: Mr. Pilkintons Parallel disparalleld.
             Within imprint: With permission.
             Errata on O7v.
             Final leaf is blank.
             Some pages marked and stained.
             Reproduction of the original in the Union Theological Seminary (New York, N.Y.). Library.
          
        
      
    
     
       
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         eng
      
       
         
           Pilkington, Richard, 1568?-1631. -- Parallela -- Early works to 1800.
           Catholic Church -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
           Catholic Church -- Doctrines -- Early works to 1800.
        
      
    
     
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           MR.
           PILKINTON
           HIS
           PARALLELA
           DISPARALLED
           .
        
         
           AND
           The
           Catholicke
           Roman
           faith
           maintained
           against
           Protestantisme
           .
        
         
           By
           ANT.
           CHAMPNEY
           Sorbonist
           ,
           and
           author
           of
           the
           Manuall
           of
           Controuersies
           ,
           impugned
           by
           the
           said
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           .
        
         
           
             WEE
             WISH
             THAT
             THOSE
             WOVLD
             departe
             from
             their
             owne
             frowardnes
             ,
             who
             against
             Christ
             ,
             carry
             the
             ensigne
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             against
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             bragge
             of
             the
             Gospell
             which
             they
             vnderstande
             not
             .
          
           Aug.
           ep
           .
           61.
           ad
           Dulcit
           .
        
         
           Cited
           by
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           against
           himselfe
           .
        
         
           AT
           S.
           OMERS
           ,
           For
           IOHN
           HEIGHAM
           .
        
         
           With
           permission
           ,
           Anno
           1620.
           
        
      
       
         
         
         
           Mr.
           PILKINTON
           HIS
           PARALLELA
           DISPARALLED
           .
           AND
           THE
           CATHOLICKE
           ROMAN
           faith
           maintained
           against
           Protestantisme
           .
        
         
           By
           ANT.
           CHAMPNEY
           Sorbonist
           and
           author
           of
           the
           Manuall
           of
           Controuersies
           impugned
           by
           the
           said
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           .
        
      
       
         
           
             Wee
             wish
             that
             those
             would
             departe
             from
             their
             owne
             frowardnes
             ,
             who
             against
             Christ
             ,
             carry
             the
             ensigne
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             against
             the
             Gospel
             ,
             bragge
             of
             the
             Gospel
             which
             they
             vnderstande
             not
             .
          
           
             Aug.
             ep
             .
             61.
             ad
             Dulcit
             .
             Cited
             by
             Mr.
             Pilkinton
             against
             himselfe
             .
          
        
         
           To
           Mr.
           George
           Abbat
           ,
           called
           by
           some
           ,
           Archbishoppe
           of
           Canturbury
           .
        
         
           IT
           is
           now
           three
           whole
           yeeres
           I
           appealed
           to
           your
           iudgment
           in
           a
           matter
           of
           difference
           and
           controuersie
           betwixte
           a
           minister
           of
           your
           owne
           makinge
           ,
           or
           allowance
           att
           least
           ,
           Mr.
           Francis
           Mason
           ,
           and
           my selfe
           ;
           concerninge
           the
           vocation
           and
           consecration
           aswell
           of
           your
           owne
           person
           ,
           
           as
           of
           all
           the
           rest
           of
           the
           protestant
           Bishops
           and
           ministers
           in
           England
           .
           And
           thoughe
           hitherto
           I
           haue
           receiued
           no
           notice
           of
           anie
           Sentences
           geuen
           by
           you
           in
           this
           Controuersie
           (
           because
           for
           seeinge
           as
           I
           suppose
           ,
           that
           you
           cannot
           passe
           your
           Sentēce
           thereupon
           ,
           without
           preiudice
           either
           of
           your
           owne
           interest
           ,
           or
           reputation
           ,
           you
           willinglie
           dissemble
           the
           matter
           )
           yett
           am
           I
           moued
           to
           demaunde
           your
           iudgment
           in
           another
           difference
           ,
           betwixt
           another
           minister
           of
           yours
           ,
           Mr.
           Richarde
           Pilkinton
           ,
           and
           my selfe
           .
           For
           where
           as
           I
           sett
           forth
           fiue
           yeeres
           a
           goe
           a
           briefe
           Manuall
           of
           Controuersies
           ,
           contayninge
           onlie
           seauen
           sheetes
           of
           Paper
           ,
           proouinge
           all
           the
           cheefest
           heades
           of
           controuersie
           by
           Scriptures
           only
           ;
           he
           ,
           this
           last
           yeare
           ,
           to
           crosse
           the
           same
           ,
           hath
           printed
           a
           fowle
           great
           booke
           of
           fifty
           sheetes
           ,
           callinge
           it
           ,
           Parallela
           .
           Which
           booke
           he
           dedicateth
           to
           you
           .
           In
           whose
           Epistle
           Dedicatorie
           ,
           thoughe
           there
           be
           as
           manie
           falsities
           and
           impertinencies
           ,
           as
           there
           are
           in
           so
           manies
           lines
           of
           the
           rest
           of
           his
           booke
           ;
           yet
           shall
           they
           passe
           without
           other
           touch
           in
           particular
           ,
           then
           this
           generall
           reprehension
           (
           as
           either
           refutinge
           themselues
           ,
           or
           not
           worthy
           refutinge
           of
           purpose
           )
           only
           I
           cannot
           omitte
           these
           brauinge
           wordes
           of
           his
           which
           followe
           .
           
             This
             popish
             agent
             (
             he
             meaneth
             the
             author
             of
             the
             Manual
             )
             I
             haue
             vndertaken
             ,
             and
             stripped
             him
             of
             his
             armour
             ,
             which
             he
             hath
             vsurped
             ,
             shewinge
             his
             proofes
             to
             be
             as
             weake
             ,
             as
             his
             positions
             are
             wicked
             ,
             that
             his
             blinde
             religion
             may
             appeare
             vnto
             all
             to
             be
             nothinge
             but
             an
             heape
             of
             vntruthes
          
           
           
             without
             patronage
             of
             holy
             Scriptures
             .
             Which
             encounter
             I
             nowe
             offer
             vnto
             the
             viewe
             of
             the
             world
             ,
             vnder
             the
             shield
             of
             your
             graces
             protection
             ,
             who
             first
             encouraged
             mee
             to
             this
             battell
             ,
             and
             canne
             best
             of
             all
             men
             iudge
             (
             as
             the
             most
             experienced
             generall
             in
             this
             sacred
             warfare
             )
             on
             which
             side
             the
             truth
             propendeth
             .
          
           In
           which
           wordes
           he
           doth
           not
           onlie
           vainlie
           bragge
           of
           the
           victorie
           alreadie
           achieued
           ,
           but
           also
           acknowledgeth
           to
           haue
           receiued
           this
           taske
           from
           you
           ,
           and
           perferringe
           your
           iudgment
           of
           his
           trauells
           before
           all
           other
           mens
           ,
           offereth
           his
           booke
           vnto
           you
           ,
           nothinge
           doubtinge
           either
           of
           your
           approbation
           or
           protection
           .
           Therefore
           haue
           I
           made
           free
           choice
           of
           you
           for
           vmpiere
           betwixt
           him
           and
           me
           ,
           to
           iudge
           whether
           he
           hath
           indeede
           stryped
           me
           of
           myne
           Armour
           ,
           as
           he
           braggeth
           ,
           &
           whether
           his
           proofes
           or
           myne
           be
           stronger
           ,
           and
           more
           pertinent
           to
           the
           purpose
           for
           which
           they
           are
           produced
           .
           I
           say
           of
           the
           proofes
           onlie
           ,
           for
           of
           the
           positions
           themselues
           ,
           I
           houlde
           you
           not
           a
           fitt
           or
           competent
           iudge
           .
           And
           were
           it
           not
           ,
           that
           I
           am
           verie
           confident
           in
           the
           clearenes
           of
           my
           cause
           ,
           and
           am
           also
           persuaded
           that
           you
           will
           not
           preiudice
           your
           reputation
           with
           the
           world
           so
           farre
           ,
           as
           to
           giue
           your
           iudgment
           against
           a
           manifest
           truth
           ,
           I
           would
           not
           be
           so
           vnaduised
           as
           to
           put
           my
           cause
           into
           so
           vnequall
           and
           partiall
           a
           iudge
           his
           handes
           ,
           as
           all
           men
           knowe
           you
           to
           be
           ,
           betweene
           me
           and
           myne
           aduersarie
           .
           Neuertheles
           the
           premisses
           beinge
           considered
           I
           will
           not
           refuse
           your
           iudgement
           in
           this
           cause
           :
           Only
           I
           will
           request
           of
           you
           
           to
           peruse
           that
           which
           hath
           been
           sayd
           on
           either
           parte
           ,
           before
           you
           geue
           your
           iudgment
           of
           the
           cause
           it selfe
           ;
           And
           this
           I
           thinke
           I
           may
           iustlie
           demaunde
           of
           you
           ,
           without
           incurringe
           anie
           speciall
           obligation
           of
           particular
           grace
           or
           fauour
           :
           which
           beinge
           performed
           ,
           I
           freelie
           permitt
           you
           to
           passe
           your
           opinion
           of
           the
           difference
           ,
           as
           you
           shall
           thinke
           most
           conformable
           to
           equitie
           ,
           and
           important
           for
           your
           owne
           reputation
           .
           Whereof
           ,
           I
           maruell
           not
           a
           litle
           ,
           you
           had
           so
           smal
           reguarde
           ,
           as
           to
           lett
           goe
           foorth
           into
           the
           viewe
           of
           the
           worlde
           ,
           with
           so
           much
           testimonie
           of
           your
           allowance
           and
           approbation
           ,
           such
           a
           peece
           of
           stuffe
           as
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           hath
           sett
           to
           sale
           in
           this
           booke
           .
           Which
           (
           to
           speake
           without
           preiudice
           of
           others
           that
           may
           seeme
           to
           contēd
           with
           him
           for
           the
           price
           of
           ignorance
           ,
           impertinencie
           and
           peruersitie
           )
           I
           thinke
           is
           one
           of
           the
           seeliest
           and
           shallowest
           thinges
           that
           hath
           seen
           sunne
           in
           this
           age
           ▪
           And
           therefore
           a
           iudicious
           friende
           (
           hauinge
           looked
           a
           litle
           into
           it
           )
           tould
           me
           I
           was
           not
           to
           expect
           anie
           honour
           by
           vndertakinge
           such
           an
           aduersarie
           .
           Wherefore
           I
           aduise
           you
           for
           your
           owne
           credit
           sake
           ,
           to
           be
           more
           warie
           hereafter
           ,
           then
           to
           lett
           such
           birdes
           flye
           abroade
           with
           your
           name
           in
           their
           forehead
           .
           ●●r
           the
           blemishe
           and
           staine
           which
           they
           bringe
           with
           them
           ,
           will
           sticke
           as
           faste
           in
           your
           face
           ,
           as
           ●●●th
           in
           that
           of
           the
           author
           ,
           yea
           by
           so
           much
           the
           faster
           ,
           by
           howe
           much
           more
           eminent
           your
           name
           and
           authoritie
           is
           ,
           or
           ought
           to
           be
           aboue
           his
           .
           And
           so
           wishinge
           you
           from
           my
           verie
           hearte
           more
           loue
           and
           affection
           to
           the
           
           Catholike
           truth
           and
           veritie
           ,
           then
           hitherto
           you
           haue
           sh●wed
           ,
           without
           which
           your
           parte
           will
           infalliblie
           be
           with
           the
           Father
           of
           all
           falshoode
           :
           For
           ,
           
             qui
             non
             credit
             iam
             iudicatus
             est
             ,
          
           he
           
           that
           beleeueth
           not
           is
           alreadie
           iudged
           ;
           I
           leaue
           you
           to
           his
           disposition
           whose
           prouidence
           is
           neuer
           deceiued
           ;
           thoughe
           his
           will
           whereby
           he
           wisheth
           vs
           well
           ,
           be
           not
           allwayes
           fulfilled
           ,
           we
           our selues
           only
           beinge
           in
           faulte
           thereof
           .
        
         
           
             Doway
             
               this
               last
               of
               Iune
               1619.
               
            
          
           
             Your
             true
             friende
             ,
             thoughe
             enemie
             to
             your
             errours
             ,
             A.
             CHAMPNEY
             .
          
        
      
       
         
         
           TO
           THE
           IVDICIOVS
           READER
           .
        
         
           IN
           the
           yeare
           1614.
           (
           good
           reader
           )
           I
           put
           forth
           in
           print
           at
           the
           request
           of
           a
           friend
           ,
           a
           briefe
           Enchiridion
           or
           Manuall
           of
           controuersies
           ,
           proouinge
           the
           Catholike
           faith
           in
           38.
           seuerall
           heades
           of
           controuersie
           by
           the
           text
           of
           holy
           Scripture
           it selfe
           ;
           which
           contayninge
           but
           onlie
           seauen
           sheetes
           of
           paper
           ,
           Mr.
           Richarde
           Pilkinton
           ,
           who
           stileth
           himselfe
           doctor
           of
           Diuinitie
           ,
           after
           fower
           whole
           yeeres
           ,
           pretendeth
           to
           answre
           ,
           and
           for
           that
           purpose
           hath
           sett
           forth
           a
           booke
           of
           fiftie
           sheetes
           thinkinge
           to
           couer
           by
           multitude
           of
           wordes
           ,
           that
           which
           with
           force
           of
           argument
           he
           could
           not
           impeache
           nor
           make
           obscure
           .
           His
           booke
           came
           but
           to
           my
           handes
           the
           last
           of
           Februarie
           this
           present
           yeere
           ,
           when
           I
           was
           both
           indisposed
           in
           my
           health
           ,
           &
           had
           newlie
           receiued
           a
           command
           from
           those
           who
           could
           commaunde
           me
           ,
           to
           transporte
           myselfe
           from
           Paris
           ,
           where
           then
           I
           liued
           ,
           to
           Douay
           .
           So
           that
           vntill
           the
           fourteenth
           of
           May
           ,
           I
           could
           not
           begin
           to
           thinke
           seriously
           of
           any
           reply
           to
           him
           ,
           thoughe
           I
           had
           in
           the
           meane
           while
           runne
           ouer
           some
           parte
           of
           his
           booke
           ,
           and
           alsoe
           noted
           somethinge
           therein
           to
           that
           purpose
           .
           Where
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           may
           peraduenture
           say
           as
           he
           saith
           of
           the
           Manuall
           ,
           
             that
             it
             well
             appeareth
             to
             haue
             ●ee●
             do●●e
             in
             haste
             ,
             and
             yett
             not
             in
             such
             shorte
          
           
           
             tyme
             but
             another
             might
             well
             haue
             made
             diuers
             such
             replies
             in
             the
             same
             space
             ;
             as
             Apelles
             answered
             to
             one
             ,
             who
             sheweinge
             him
             a
             picture
             ,
             and
             sayinge
             he
             had
             made
             it
             in
             one
             day
             :
          
           But
           be
           ytt
           that
           Mr.
           Pilkintons
           witt
           and
           dexteritie
           ,
           coulde
           haue
           performed
           much
           more
           in
           the
           same
           tyme
           ,
           yett
           I
           confesse
           that
           mine
           coulde
           doe
           noe
           better
           ;
           the
           other
           imployments
           wherein
           the
           greatest
           parte
           of
           my
           tyme
           is
           taken
           vpp
           ,
           lyinge
           vppon
           me
           .
           Neither
           doth
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           neede
           much
           to
           bragge
           of
           his
           dexteritie
           and
           expedition
           in
           this
           kinde
           ;
           seeinge
           he
           hath
           bestowed
           fower
           whole
           yeeres
           or
           verie
           neere
           in
           answereinge
           only
           seauen
           sheetes
           of
           paper
           ,
           and
           that
           also
           so
           shallowly
           and
           seelily
           ,
           that
           there
           is
           much
           lesse
           difficultie
           to
           refute
           his
           aunswere
           ,
           then
           to
           Coppie
           out
           or
           transcribe
           his
           wordes
           .
           I
           haue
           replyed
           to
           all
           he
           saith
           as
           it
           lyeth
           in
           his
           booke
           so
           farr
           as
           I
           goe
           with
           him
           ,
           relatinge
           his
           owne
           wordes
           ,
           least
           he
           shoulde
           complayne
           of
           ill
           dealinge
           ,
           as
           if
           somethinge
           of
           moment
           were
           lefte
           vntouched
           ;
           And
           both
           he
           and
           the
           reader
           may
           likewise
           vnderstande
           ,
           that
           I
           might
           with
           as
           much
           facilitie
           haue
           refuted
           the
           rest
           of
           his
           booke
           ,
           had
           it
           been
           either
           necessarie
           or
           proffitable
           to
           haue
           bestowed
           the
           labour
           in
           transcribinge
           it
           ,
           and
           cost
           in
           printinge
           it
           .
           I
           would
           wishe
           thee
           good
           reader
           to
           take
           speciall
           notice
           of
           the
           preface
           ,
           which
           may
           serue
           thee
           as
           a
           key
           not
           only
           to
           this
           small
           treatise
           ,
           but
           also
           to
           
           other
           workes
           of
           greater
           moment
           ,
           and
           generally
           to
           all
           controuersies
           .
           In
           the
           answereinge
           whereof
           as
           Mr.
           Pilkinton
           hath
           been
           more
           laborious
           ,
           so
           hath
           he
           also
           shewed
           himselfe
           more
           impertinent
           and
           peruerse
           .
           Reade
           the
           whole
           with
           attention
           if
           thy
           leisure
           will
           permitte
           thee
           ,
           and
           compare
           diligentlie
           his
           proofes
           and
           myne
           together
           ,
           &
           after
           doe
           not
           spare
           to
           giue
           thy
           Censure
           thereon
           as
           thou
           shalt
           thinke
           good
           in
           gods
           name
           .
           And
           if
           thou
           receiuest
           anie
           proffit
           by
           my
           small
           labour
           ,
           I
           shall
           thinke
           it
           well
           bestowed
           ,
           and
           as
           fullie
           recompensed
           as
           I
           expect
           or
           desire
           in
           this
           worlde
           .
           God
           euer
           keepe
           thee
           and
           me
           also
           .
           This
           first
           of
           Iuly
           .
           1619.
           
        
      
       
         
           APPROBATIO
           .
        
         
           Ego
           infrascriptus
           S.
           Th.
           Doctor
           &
           Collegij
           Anglorum
           Duaceni
           Praeses
           ,
           legi
           libellum
           inscriptum
           
             Mr.
             Pilkinton
             his
             Pararelle
             Disparelled
          
           ,
           Autore
           Magistro
           Antonio
           Champneyo
           S.
           Th.
           Doctore
           Sorbonico
           :
           nihilque
           in
           eo
           reperi
           aduersum
           fidem
           Catholicam
           vel
           bonos
           mores
           ,
           sed
           eandem
           fidem
           Catholicam
           in
           nonnullis
           propugnatam
           ,
           &
           aduersarij
           ineptias
           &
           fraudes
           detectas
           .
           Quocirca
           iudico
           eundem
           vtiliter
           praelo
           committi
           posse
           .
        
         
           
             Datum
             Duaci
             
               die
               decima
               Decembris
               ,
               Anno
               salutis
               1619.
               
            
          
           
             Matthaeus
             Kellisonus
             .
          
        
      
    
     
       
         
         Mr.
         PILKINTONS
         PARALLEL
         DISPARALLELD
         .
      
       
         
           Mr
           .
           Pilkintō
           after
           his
           owne
           Epistle
           Dedicatorie
           to
           his
           Gratious
           Patron
           of
           Canterburie
           ,
           and
           his
           shapeles
           aunswere
           to
           my
           shorte
           Epistle
           to
           the
           reader
           (
           for
           soe
           exact
           he
           would
           seeme
           to
           be
           that
           he
           letteth
           nothinge
           passe
           without
           an
           answere
           )
           he
           beginneth
           his
           encounter
           as
           followeth
           .
        
         
           
             PILKINTON
             .
          
           
             A
             briefe
             Synopsis
             of
             popishe
             positions
             auouched
             by
             the
             Manualist
             ,
             directlie
             contradicted
             by
             the
             Fathers
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMPNEY
               .
            
             
               I
               may
               err
               and
               fayle
               ,
               as
               all
               other
               men
               may
               ;
               but
               obstinate
               in
               errour
               by
               gods
               grace
               I
               shall
               neuer
               be
               .
               Neither
               will
               I
               euer
               be
               but
               a
               scholer
               and
               childe
               of
               the
               orthodox
               Fathers
               .
               If
               therefore
               by
               ouersight
               ,
               ignorance
               or
               errour
               which
               are
               defects
               incident
               to
               all
               men
               ,
               I
               haue
               vttered
               anie
               thinge
               contrarie
               to
               theire
               doctrine
               ,
               I
               doe
               here
               willinglie
               and
               wittinglie
               recall
               and
               retract
               it
               .
               But
               lett
               vs
               heare
               the
               directe
               contradictions
               you
               speake
               of
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               All
               articles
               of
               faith
               are
               not
               contayned
               so
            
             
             
               much
               as
               indirectlie
               and
               implicitlie
               in
               the
               holy
               Scriptures
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               were
               verie
               ill
               aduised
               to
               vse
               such
               euident
               corrupt
               dealinge
               in
               the
               verie
               first
               line
               of
               your
               booke
               .
               
               This
               position
               ,
               sett
               downe
               by
               you
               ,
               is
               no
               more
               myne
               ,
               then
               your
               Parallel
               ,
               is
               my
               Manuall
               .
               But
               you
               prooue
               your selfe
               a
               fitt
               scholler
               of
               your
               old
               Maisters
               .
               My
               position
               is
               this
               .
               
                 All
                 such
                 articles
                 as
                 are
                 of
                 faith
                 ,
                 are
                 not
                 contayned
                 so
                 much
                 as
                 indirectlie
                 or
                 implici●lie
                 in
                 holie
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 but
                 onlie
                 so
                 far
                 as
                 the
                 scriptures
                 contayne
                 and
                 testifie
                 the
                 aucthoritie
                 of
                 the
                 Churche
                 and
                 Tradition
                 .
              
               To
               this
               position
               lett
               vs
               nowe
               see
               your
               Antithesis
               of
               the
               Fathers
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             In
             those
             thinges
             that
             are
             plainlie
             set
             downe
             in
             the
             holy
             scripture
             ,
             all
             poinctes
             are
             founde
             that
             concerne
             either
             beliefe
             or
             life
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               wittes
               had
               been
               at
               home
               when
               you
               wrote
               
               this
               ,
               you
               would
               easilie
               haue
               seen
               this
               doctrine
               of
               S.
               August
               :
               to
               haue
               hadd
               no
               opposition
               with
               my
               position
               .
               For
               my
               proposition
               ,
               were
               it
               sett
               downe
               in
               these
               wordes
               .
               
                 All
                 articles
                 of
                 faith
                 are
                 contayned
                 in
                 scriptures
                 so
                 far
                 as
                 they
                 testifie
                 the
                 Authoritie
                 of
                 the
                 Churche
                 ,
                 and
                 Traditions
                 .
              
               Which
               you
               will
               not
               ,
               as
               I
               suppose
               ,
               deny
               to
               be
               the
               verie
               same
               in
               sence
               with
               the
               position
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Ma●uall
               ;
               I
               would
               learne
               of
               you
               wherein
               you
               putt
               the
               antithesis
               betwixt
               this
               position
               ,
               and
               that
               of
               S.
               August
               .
               But
               lett
               S.
               August
               .
               
               himselfe
               be
               iudge
               of
               this
               matter
               .
               Althoughe
               (
               saith
               he
               )
               
                 no
                 example
                 of
                 this
                 thinge
              
               (
               speaking
               of
               the
               validitie
               of
               Baptisme
               ,
               ministred
               by
               heretickes
               )
               
                 be
                 brought
                 out
                 of
                 holie
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 yett
                 doe
                 we
                 followe
                 the
                 truth
                 of
                 the
                 same
                 scriptures
                 in
                 this
                 point
                 ,
                 whilst
                 we
                 doe
                 that
                 which
                 pleaseth
                 the
                 whole
                 Churche
                 ,
                 which
                 the
                 authoritie
                 of
                 the
                 scripture
                 doth
                 commend
                 .
              
               Wherby
               you
               see
               S.
               August
               .
               to
               teache
               some
               articles
               of
               faith
               not
               otherwise
               to
               be
               contayned
               in
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               but
               so
               far
               onlie
               as
               they
               commend
               vnto
               vs
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               Churche
               ,
               which
               is
               that
               my
               position
               saith
               ;
               and
               therefore
               your
               antithesis
               is
               in
               your
               owne
               brayne
               that
               seemeth
               to
               be
               at
               oddes
               with
               all
               true
               doctrine
               .
               
               And
               marueyle
               truly
               it
               is
               to
               me
               ,
               with
               what
               countenance
               you
               produce
               S.
               Aug.
               doctrine
               ,
               as
               thoughe
               you
               attributed
               to
               him
               some
               authoritie
               ,
               seinge
               in
               the
               
               verie
               chapter
               immediatelie
               goinge
               before
               the
               place
               alleadged
               by
               you
               ,
               amongst
               the
               other
               canonicall
               bookes
               of
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               he
               numbreth
               the
               bookes
               ,
               of
               
                 Ecclesiasticus
                 ,
                 Sapientia
                 ,
                 Tobie
                 ,
                 ●udith
                 ,
              
               and
               the
               Machabees
               all
               reiected
               by
               you
               :
               and
               beginninge
               the
               chapter
               where
               you
               would
               take
               your
               antithesis
               ,
               saith
               thus
               .
               
                 In
                 his
                 omnibus
                 libris
                 timentes
                 Deum
                 ,
                 &
                 pietate
                 mansueti
                 quaerunt
                 voluntatem
                 Dei.
              
               In
               all
               these
               bookes
               ,
               those
               that
               feare
               God
               ,
               and
               are
               indued
               with
               true
               pietie
               seeke
               the
               will
               of
               God.
               If
               nowe
               you
               make
               anie
               esteeme
               of
               S.
               August
               .
               iudgment
               ,
               what
               case
               are
               you
               in
               ,
               that
               reiect
               these
               bookes
               of
               holy
               scripture
               as
               apocriphall
               ,
               whence
               he
               saith
               all
               pious
               and
               those
               that
               feare
               God
               ,
               do
               seeke
               his
               will
               :
               but
               this
               onlie
               by
               the
               way
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               holy
               Apostles
               deliuered
               by
               worde
               of
            
             
             
               mouth
               moe
               things
               to
               be
               beleeued
               and
               obserued
               by
               this
               churche
               ,
               then
               either
               they
               founde
               written
               or
               wrote
               themselues
               .
            
          
           
             We
             knowe
             not
             the
             disposition
             of
             our
             
             saluation
             from
             anie
             other
             then
             from
             them
             by
             whom
             the
             Ghospell
             came
             to
             vs
             ,
             which
             first
             they
             preached
             ,
             and
             after
             by
             the
             will
             of
             God
             deliuered
             vnto
             vs
             in
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             to
             be
             the
             foundation
             and
             pillar
             of
             our
             faith
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               had
               taken
               but
               ordinarie
               heede
               what
               you
               wrote
               ,
               you
               woulde
               not
               haue
               sayde
               that
               my
               position
               hath
               anie
               opposition
               with
               S.
               Ireneus
               ;
               who
               sayth
               not
               that
               the
               Apostles
               wrote
               all
               they
               preached
               ,
               as
               he
               should
               haue
               don
               to
               make
               your
               antithesis
               good
               ,
               but
               onlie
               that
               they
               wrote
               the
               same
               gospell
               which
               they
               
               preached
               ,
               and
               not
               a
               different
               or
               contrarie
               doctrine
               to
               their
               preachinge
               ,
               as
               some
               prophane
               heretickes
               of
               whom
               he
               maketh
               there
               mentiō
               impudentlie
               taught
               ,
               which
               sence
               of
               this
               Father
               your selfe
               acknowledge
               pag.
               5.
               
               But
               if
               you
               will
               needes
               make
               this
               consequence
               they
               wrote
               that
               which
               they
               preached
               ,
               ergo
               ,
               they
               wrote
               all
               that
               they
               preached
               ,
               (
               as
               you
               must
               argue
               if
               you
               will
               make
               anie
               antithesis
               betwixt
               my
               position
               and
               S.
               Ireneus
               his
               doctrine
               )
               I
               will
               say
               that
               either
               you
               haue
               forgotten
               your
               logicke
               ,
               or
               that
               you
               neuer
               had
               anie
               .
               For
               to
               make
               or
               inferre
               an
               vniuersall
               proposition
               ,
               of
               an
               indefinite
               
                 in
                 n●n
                 necessarijs
              
               ,
               is
               most
               absurde
               ,
               as
               you
               shall
               see
               by
               these
               examples
               .
               
                 Homo
                 est
                 albus
                 vel
                 caluus
                 ,
                 ergo
                 omnis
                 homo
                 est
                 a
                 ●us
                 vel
                 caluus
                 ▪
              
               or
               ,
               the
               kinge
               writeth
               that
               he
               speaketh
               and
               thinketh
               ,
               therefore
               he
               writeth
               all
               he
               speaketh
               or
               thinketh
               .
               Moreouer
               ,
               of
               S.
               Ireneus
               his
               iudgment
               concerninge
               traditions
               ,
               you
               might
               haue
               informed
               your selfe
               by
               the
               chapter
               immediatelie
               followinge
               that
               which
               you
               cite
               ,
               where
               he
               hath
               these
               wordes
               .
               
                 When
                 we
                 appeall
                 to
                 that
                 tradition
                 (
                 which
                 descendinge
                 from
                 the
                 Apostles
                 ,
                 is
                 by
                 the
                 succession
                 of
                 priestes
                 in
                 the
                 Churche
                 preserued
                 )
                 they
                 ,
                 to
                 wit
                 heretikes
                 ,
                 reiect
                 Traditions
                 .
              
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               scriptures
               are
               darke
               and
               difficult
               to
               be
            
             
             
               vnderstoode
               ,
               and
               all
               articles
               of
               faith
               are
               not
               clearelie
               layde
               downe
               in
               them
               .
            
          
           
             All
             thinges
             are
             cleare
             in
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             
             to
             them
             that
             come
             to
             them
             with
             a
             godlie
             minde
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               position
               of
               the
               Manuall
               which
               you
               ayme
               at
               as
               this
               .
               
                 All
                 places
                 of
                 holy
                 scripture
                 containinge
                 articles
                 of
                 faith
                 (
                 the
                 obstinate
                 misbeleefe
                 whereof
                 is
                 damnable
                 )
                 are
                 not
                 easie
                 to
                 be
                 vnderstoode
                 ,
                 but
                 require
                 some
                 rule
                 to
                 be
                 interpreted
                 by
                 .
              
               Nowe
               if
               you
               will
               
               maintaine
               this
               position
               to
               be
               opposite
               to
               S.
               Epiphanius
               ,
               you
               must
               graunte
               that
               your
               doctrine
               is
               opposite
               to
               him
               ,
               which
               I
               euidentlie
               shewe
               in
               this
               manner
               .
               In
               the
               roll
               of
               positions
               which
               you
               say
               are
               forgéd
               by
               me
               against
               you
               ,
               and
               are
               sett
               downe
               by
               you
               in
               the
               next
               page
               of
               your
               booke
               ;
               This
               in
               the
               second
               .
               
                 All
                 places
                 of
                 holie
                 scripture
                 conteininge
                 articles
                 of
                 faith
                 ,
                 are
                 easie
                 to
                 be
                 vnderstoode
                 ,
              
               which
               proposition
               if
               you
               will
               reiect
               as
               none
               of
               yours
               ,
               as
               you
               doe
               in
               the
               place
               mentioned
               ;
               then
               must
               necessarilie
               the
               contradictorie
               proposition
               which
               is
               the
               same
               with
               mine
               here
               carped
               at
               by
               you
               ,
               and
               wich
               you
               say
               is
               opposite
               to
               S.
               Epiphanius
               be
               ,
               yours
               ,
               and
               then
               doe
               you
               contradict
               S.
               Epiphanius
               ,
               if
               you
               will
               say
               that
               I
               doe
               .
               Or
               if
               you
               will
               confesse
               the
               truth
               ,
               and
               acknowledge
               this
               latter
               proposition
               .
               to
               be
               yours
               ,
               as
               doubtles
               it
               is
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               then
               charge
               me
               with
               forgeinge
               it
               against
               you
               ?
               Accorde
               your
               owne
               sayinges
               ,
               and
               then
               shall
               I
               knowe
               what
               to
               answere
               vnto
               .
               In
               the
               meane
               while
               ,
               you
               are
               vnfortunate
               to
               stumble
               so
               grosselie
               (
               if
               contradictinge
               your selfe
               in
               so
               shorte
               a
               space
               may
               be
               termed
               onlie
               stumblinge
               )
               in
               the
               verie
               entrance
               of
               your
               dispute
               .
               My
               position
               shall
               be
               shewed
               agreeable
               both
               with
               holy
               Scriptures
               and
               auncient
               Fathers
               in
               due
               place
               .
               And
               as
               for
               your
               authoritie
               alleaged
               out
               of
               S.
               Epiphanius
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               in
               him
               (
               as
               I
               knowe
               no●
               whether
               it
               be
               or
               noe
               ,
               for
               it
               is
               cited
               by
               you
               so
               at
               large
               that
               I
               cannot
               finde
               it
               )
               it
               may
               haue
               this
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               ;
               That
               all
               thinges
               are
               cleare
               in
               scriptures
               to
               such
               ,
               as
               come
               to
               them
               with
               this
               minde
               to
               vnderstande
               them
               as
               the
               catholicke
               Churche
               and
               the
               true
               pastors
               thereof
               interpret
               them
               .
               Which
               sayinge
               hath
               noe
               contrarietie
               at
               all
               with
               my
               position
               .
               For
               I
               doe
               not
               say
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               harde
               to
               be
               vnderstoode
               by
               the
               churche
               ,
               or
               that
               they
               neede
               another
               rule
               to
               be
               interpreted
               by
               then
               the
               Churches
               vnderstandinge
               and
               interpretation
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               sence
               of
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               geuen
               by
               the
            
             
             
               churche
               is
               vnfalliblie
               true
               ;
               as
               are
               also
               the
               definitions
               and
               declarations
               of
               faith
               deliuered
               by
               the
               same
               ,
               and
               euerie
               one
               is
               bounde
               vppon
               his
               damnation
               not
               to
               reiect
               the
               iudgment
               therof
               .
            
          
           
             Who
             knoweth
             not
             that
             the
             holie
             scriptures
             
             as
             well
             of
             the
             old
             as
             newe
             testament
             is
             contayned
             in
             certaine
             boundes
             and
             so
             is
             to
             be
             preferred
             before
             all
             the
             latter
             writinges
             of
             Bishoppes
             ,
             that
             noe
             man
             ought
             to
             doubte
             att
             all
             or
             call
             in
             question
             ,
             whether
             it
             be
             true
             or
             right
             ,
             whatsoeuer
             is
             written
             therein
             ;
             when
             as
             the
             writinges
             of
             Bishopes
             that
             haue
             been
             or
             are
             written
             after
             the
             canon
             confirmed
             ,
             may
             lawfullie
             be
             reprehended
             ,
             both
             by
             the
             wiser
             speache
             of
             anie
             that
             is
             more
             skilfull
             in
             that
             matter
             ,
             and
             by
             grauer
             authoritie
             of
             other
             Bishopps
             and
             wisdome
             of
             the
             learned
             ,
             and
             also
             by
             councells
             if
             they
             haue
             in
             anie
             point
             wandred
             from
             the
             truth
             :
             and
             euen
             nationall
             and
             prouincial
             councells
             doe
             giue
             place
             to
             those
             that
             are
             collected
             out
             of
             the
             whole
             vniuersall
             Christian
             worlde
             :
             and
             generall
             counsells
             themselues
             are
             often
             amended
             ,
             the
             former
             by
             the
             latter
             ,
             as
             often
             as
             by
             tryal
             &
             experience
             the
             thinge
             was
             opened
             ,
             that
             before
             was
             shutt
             ;
             or
             knowne
             that
             was
             hidd
             ;
             without
             anie
             swellinge
             of
             sacrilegious
             pride
             ,
             or
             stiffe
             necke
             of
             arrogancie
             ,
             or
             contention
             of
             deadlie
             enuie
             ,
             with
             holy
             humilitie
             ,
             with
             Catholicke
             peace
             ,
             with
             Christian
             charitie
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               doe
               greatlie
               abuse
               your
               readers
               patience
               farceinge
               your
               booke
               with
               such
               impertinencies
               .
               And
               you
               doe
               no
               lesse
               wronge
               the
               holy
               Father
               S.
               August
               bringinge
               his
               wordes
               as
               cōtradictinge
               the
               churches
               infallibilitie
               in
               matters
               of
               faith
               ,
               and
               interpretation
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               he
               so
               often
               and
               so
               euidently
               restifieth
               .
               But
               to
               conuince
               you
               of
               wilfulnes
               in
               abusinge
               S.
               Aug.
               it
               shall
               suffice
               to
               sett
               here
               before
               you
               that
               onlie
               Testimonie
               of
               the
               same
               holy
               Father
               which
               is
               expressed
               in
               the
               Manuall
               in
               proofe
               of
               this
               position
               which
               you
               would
               haue
               him
               to
               contradict
               .
               His
               wordes
               there
               sett
               downe
               are
               these
               .
               
                 Although
                 noe
                 example
              
               
               
                 is
                 brought
                 out
                 of
                 holie
                 scripture
                 of
                 this
                 thinge
              
               (
               that
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               heretickes
               is
               sufficient
               )
               
                 yett
                 doe
                 we
                 followe
                 the
                 truth
                 of
                 the
                 same
                 scripture
                 in
                 this
                 point
                 ,
                 whilst
                 we
                 doe
                 that
                 which
                 pleaseth
                 the
                 whole
                 Churche
                 ,
                 which
                 the
                 authoritie
                 of
                 scriptures
                 doth
                 commend
                 .
                 And
                 because
                 the
                 holie
                 scripture
                 cannot
                 deceaue
                 ,
                 whosoeuer
                 feareth
                 to
                 be
                 deceaued
                 by
                 the
                 obscuritie
                 of
                 these
                 questions
                 ,
                 let●
                 him
                 consulte
                 therevpon
                 with
                 the
                 churche
                 ,
                 which
                 without
                 all
                 doubte
                 the
                 scriptures
                 doe
                 shewe
                 .
              
               Iudge
               nowe
               with
               your selfe
               whether
               you
               or
               I
               speake
               more
               conformablie
               to
               S.
               Aug.
               That
               which
               you
               alleage
               out
               of
               him
               of
               the
               doctrine
               of
               particular
               Bishopps
               or
               councells
               ,
               compared
               with
               the
               doctrine
               of
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               is
               altogether
               impertinent
               to
               your
               purpose
               .
               That
               which
               he
               saith
               of
               vniuersall
               councells
               that
               the
               former
               may
               be
               amēded
               by
               the
               latter
               ,
               is
               vnderstoode
               of
               matters
               pertayninge
               to
               manners
               or
               practise
               ,
               which
               often
               are
               changed
               accordinge
               as
               circumstances
               of
               tyme
               and
               place
               chaunge
               and
               alter
               ,
               as
               experience
               teacheth
               ,
               and
               not
               of
               matters
               of
               faith
               and
               beliefe
               ,
               which
               are
               euer
               the
               same
               without
               anie
               chaunge
               or
               alteration
               .
               So
               that
               my
               position
               hath
               no
               other
               contrarietie
               with
               S.
               Aug.
               doctrine
               ,
               then
               heate
               hath
               with
               white
               ,
               or
               hearinge
               with
               seeinge
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
             
          
           
             
               Vniuersalitie
               is
               a
               note
               to
               finde
               out
               the
               churche
               by
               .
            
          
           
             Attende
             not
             those
             companies
             that
             goe
             
             the
             broade
             way
             ,
             they
             are
             manie
             and
             who
             cann
             number
             them
             ?
             and
             fewe
             goe
             in
             the
             narrowe
             way
             :
             bringe
             forth
             thy
             weights
             ,
             &
             weighe
             them
             ;
             see
             what
             a
             deale
             of
             chaffe
             for
             a
             littell
             corne
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               farther
               you
               goe
               ,
               the
               more
               your
               ignoraunce
               or
               obstinacie
               doth
               appeare
               .
               Are
               you
               not
               ashamed
               to
               make
               S.
               Aug.
               att
               oddes
               with
               the
               Apostles
               and
               Nycen
               Creede
               ,
               both
               which
               make
               vniuersalitie
               a
               note
               &
               propriety
               of
               the
               true
               churche
               ?
               Besides
               are
               you
               so
               shallow
               brayned
               that
               you
               see
               not
               ,
               that
               S.
               Aug.
               speaketh
               here
               of
               baddly
               liuinge
               Christians
               ,
               which
               make
               not
               diuerse
               churches
               ,
               but
               are
               as
               Chaffe
               in
               the
               same
               ba●ne
               or
               flore
               with
               the
               good
               Corne
               ,
               and
               not
               of
               misbeleeuing
               heretiks
               and
               Sectaries
               which
               make
               theire
               conuenticles
               a
               parte
               out
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               are
               neuer
               comparable
               to
               the
               true
               churche
               ,
               for
               vniuersalitie
               either
               of
               time
               or
               place
               ?
               Againe
               why
               doe
               you
               charge
               me
               in
               the
               page
               followinge
               with
               forgeinge
               this
               propositiō
               and
               fatheringe
               it
               vppon
               you
               :
               
                 ●he
                 true
                 churche
                 of
                 christe
                 is
                 not
                 necessarilie
                 Catholicke
                 or
                 vniuersall
                 ▪
                 either
                 in
                 respect
                 of
                 place
                 or
                 tyme
                 :
              
               if
               you
               wil
               denie
               vniuersallity
               to
               be
               a
               note
               of
               the
               true
               churche
               ?
               You
               are
               so
               busied
               to
               make
               contrarieties
               betwixt
               my
               positions
               and
               the
               fathers
               doctrine
               ,
               that
               you
               runne
               into
               euident
               contradictions
               with
               your selfe
               ,
               and
               that
               within
               the
               space
               of
               a
               litle
               leafe
               of
               paper
               .
               Either
               confesse
               the
               cause
               which
               you
               would
               defende
               to
               be
               so
               badd
               that
               it
               inforceth
               you
               to
               these
               absurdities
               ,
               or
               leaue
               the
               defence
               of
               it
               to
               some
               others
               of
               better
               skill
               and
               iudgment
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             
          
           
             
               The
               true
               churche
               of
               God
               is
               visible
               and
               apparant
               ,
            
             
             
               both
               to
               the
               saithfull
               beleeuers
               that
               are
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               also
               to
               heretickes
               and
               others
               that
               are
               out
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             What
             churche
             nowe
             freelie
             serueth
             
             Christ
             ?
             For
             if
             it
             be
             godlie
             it
             is
             exposed
             to
             daungers
             ;
             &
             if
             there
             be
             in
             anie
             place
             faithfull
             seruants
             of
             Christ
             ,
             as
             in
             all
             places
             there
             are
             manie
             ,
             they
             like
             vnto
             the
             great
             prophett
             Elias
             are
             secret
             ,
             and
             hide
             themselues
             in
             dennes
             and
             caues
             of
             the
             earth
             ,
             or
             wandringe
             vppe
             and
             downe
             ,
             remayne
             in
             the
             wildernes
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               woulde
               haue
               proued
               the
               truth
               of
               my
               position
               and
               the
               conformitie
               thereof
               with
               the
               doctrine
               of
               S.
               Athanasius
               ,
               you
               could
               not
               easilie
               haue
               donne
               it
               more
               effectuallie
               ,
               then
               by
               the
               testimonie
               you
               bringe
               out
               of
               him
               to
               prooue
               the
               contrarie
               ;
               so
               deuoyde
               of
               iudgment
               are
               you
               in
               all
               your
               sayinges
               .
               For
               the
               churche
               that
               is
               exposed
               to
               daungers
               ,
               that
               is
               in
               all
               places
               ,
               and
               is
               persecuted
               ,
               is
               doubtles
               visible
               both
               to
               the
               faithfull
               ,
               and
               to
               the
               heretikes
               .
               Yea
               those
               seruantes
               of
               Christ
               that
               like
               vnto
               Elias
               hide
               themselue●
               in
               dennes
               ,
               and
               remaine
               in
               the
               wildernes
               ,
               are
               not
               inuisible
               more
               then
               the
               catholickes
               nowe
               are
               in
               Englande
               ,
               whereof
               some
               parte
               is
               in
               prison
               ,
               others
               are
               in
               woodes
               and
               wildernesses
               ,
               as
               these
               were
               of
               whom
               S.
               Athanasius
               speaketh
               .
               And
               if
               you
               could
               shewe
               such
               a
               visible
               churche
               of
               protestants
               before
               Martin
               Luther
               ,
               you
               would
               not
               vse
               the
               shamelesse
               shift
               of
               an
               inuisible
               churche
               whereunto
               you
               are
               driuen
               by
               meere
               necessitie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               S.
               Peter
               was
               by
               our
               Sauiour
               Christe
               constituted
            
             
             
               supreame
               heade
               or
               soueraigne
               Bishop
               ,
               or
               pastour
               ouer
               his
               whole
               churche
               militant
               .
            
          
           
           
             Christe
             gaue
             to
             all
             his
             Apostles
             equall
             
             power
             after
             his
             resurrection
             ,
             and
             sayde
             as
             my
             Father
             sent
             me
             ,
             so
             send
             I
             you
             ,
             receiue
             the
             holy
             ghoste
             :
             whose
             sinnes
             you
             remitt
             ,
             they
             are
             remitted
             :
             and
             a
             litle
             after
             ;
             the
             rest
             of
             the
             Apostles
             were
             the
             same
             that
             Peeter
             was
             ;
             endued
             with
             like
             fellowshippe
             both
             of
             honour
             and
             power
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               equalitie
               of
               power
               to
               remitt
               sinnes
               ,
               or
               as
               the
               diuines
               terme
               it
               power
               of
               order
               (
               of
               which
               equalitie
               S.
               Cyprian
               speaketh
               )
               in
               all
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               doth
               stande
               well
               with
               the
               supremacie
               of
               the
               power
               ,
               of
               iurisdiction
               and
               gouernment
               ,
               which
               S.
               Cyprian
               geueth
               to
               S.
               Peeter
               .
               Againe
               all
               the
               Apostles
               were
               of
               equall
               power
               in
               respect
               of
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               but
               not
               in
               respect
               of
               themselues
               .
               For
               one
               head
               was
               chosen
               saith
               S.
               Hierome
               that
               the
               occasion
               of
               schisme
               
               might
               be
               taken
               away
               .
               Where
               you
               are
               also
               to
               note
               ,
               that
               if
               you
               will
               still
               persist
               to
               vrge
               the
               equalitie
               of
               power
               in
               all
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               out
               of
               this
               testimonie
               of
               S.
               Cyprian
               ;
               you
               must
               also
               in
               like
               manner
               conclude
               the
               equalitie
               of
               honour
               in
               them
               all
               ,
               which
               notwithstandinge
               none
               of
               you
               dare
               to
               doe
               ,
               in
               regarde
               of
               so
               manie
               prerogatiues
               clearly
               geuen
               to
               S.
               Peter
               ▪
               both
               in
               holy
               scriptures
               and
               by
               all
               antiquitie
               :
               For
               which
               reason
               Spalatensis
               who
               hath
               strugled
               more
               peruersly
               against
               S.
               Peter
               his
               supremacie
               ,
               then
               anie
               other
               hereticke
               hitherto
               ,
               doth
               graunte
               vnto
               him
               a
               supremacie
               in
               diuerse
               respects
               ,
               thinkinge
               thereby
               (
               as
               〈◊〉
               hee
               is
               malicious
               and
               peruerse
               )
               by
               grauntinge
               him
               some
               parte
               of
               his
               due
               ,
               more
               easilie
               to
               depriue
               him
               of
               the
               rest
               .
               Either
               cease
               therefore
               to
               impugne
               S.
               Peter
               his
               supreamacie
               out
               of
               this
               testimonie
               of
               S.
               Cyprian
               ,
               or
               if
               you
               will
               continue
               still
               to
               doe
               it
               ,
               take
               his
               whole
               wordes
               and
               sence
               ,
               and
               so
               shall
               you
               make
               him
               opposite
               to
               your selues
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               Bishop
               of
               Rome
               is
               the
               lawfull
               and
               lineall
            
             
             
               successour
               of
               S.
               Peter
               ,
               in
               that
               charge
               and
               office
               which
               our
               Sauiour
               gaue
               vnto
               S.
               Peter
               ouer
               his
               churche
               militant
               .
            
          
           
             Lett
             none
             of
             vs
             make
             him selfe
             bishop
             
             of
             bishops
             ,
             or
             by
             tyrannicall
             feare
             force
             his
             fellowes
             to
             necessitie
             of
             obedience
             ,
             seeinge
             euerie
             bishop
             hath
             free
             libertie
             and
             licence
             of
             his
             owne
             power
             and
             may
             not
             iudge
             another
             ,
             no
             more
             then
             another
             may
             iudge
             him
             ,
             but
             lett
             vs
             expect
             the
             iudgment
             of
             our
             Lord
             Iesus
             .
             Christ
             ,
             who
             onlie
             and
             alone
             hath
             power
             to
             prefer
             vs
             in
             the
             gouernmēt
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             and
             to
             iudge
             of
             our
             acts
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               knowe
               not
               whether
               I
               shoulde
               ascribe
               it
               to
               ignorance
               or
               peruersitie
               ,
               that
               you
               produce
               this
               Testimonie
               as
               opposite
               to
               my
               position
               .
               For
               no
               man
               of
               common
               sence
               that
               readeth
               in
               S.
               Aug.
               whence
               you
               cite
               it
               ,
               but
               will
               iudge
               it
               most
               impertinentlie
               alleadged
               for
               your
               purpose
               .
               S.
               Cyprian
               there
               speakinge
               to
               his
               fellowe
               Bishopps
               of
               Affricke
               ,
               willinge
               them
               to
               giue
               their
               opinions
               of
               the
               matter
               proposed
               (
               which
               was
               touchinge
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               heretickes
               )
               professinge
               to
               keepe
               vnion
               and
               communion
               with
               them
               that
               should
               iudge
               other
               waies
               then
               he
               did
               .
               And
               this
               without
               mention
               or
               intention
               to
               include
               in
               his
               speach
               the
               Bishope
               of
               Rome
               ,
               but
               directeth
               his
               wordes
               to
               the
               Bishops
               present
               for
               that
               particular
               matter
               which
               there
               he
               proposed
               vnto
               them
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               To
               holy
               Saincts
               and
               Angells
               in
               heauen
               ,
               is
               due
            
             
             
               more
               then
               ciuill
               honour
               and
               reuerence
               .
            
          
           
             We
             honour
             the
             Angells
             with
             loue
             not
             
             seruice
             ,
             we
             builde
             them
             no
             temples
             &c
             ▪
             our
             
             religion
             teacheth
             vs
             not
             to
             worshippe
             dead
             men
             .
          
           
             
               CAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               ignorance
               or
               peruersitie
               if
               not
               both
               ,
               lieth
               so
               open
               to
               all
               men
               ,
               that
               nothinge
               else
               appeareth
               hitherto
               in
               you
               .
               If
               you
               had
               read
               S.
               Aug
               :
               and
               but
               halfe
               vnderstoode
               him
               ,
               you
               would
               neuer
               haue
               dreamed
               of
               anie
               Antithesis
               betwixt
               my
               position
               &
               his
               doctrine
               .
               Hee
               speakinge
               manifestlie
               of
               that
               seruice
               which
               is
               due
               onlie
               vnto
               God
               ,
               called
               of
               diuines
               Latria
               whereof
               my
               position
               is
               not
               meant
               .
               And
               if
               to
               make
               your
               Antithesis
               good
               ,
               you
               will
               contend
               that
               there
               is
               no
               other
               religious
               woshippe
               or
               seruice
               but
               onlie
               that
               which
               is
               called
               Latria
               and
               is
               only
               due
               vnto
               God
               ,
               learne
               of
               S.
               Aug
               ▪
               to
               correct
               your
               sencelesse
               errour
               .
               Who
               disputing
               against
               Faustus
               and
               haueinge
               confessed
               the
               religious
               worshippe
               of
               Martyrs
               ,
               to
               preuent
               your
               errour
               ,
               addeth
               these
               wordes
               .
               
                 But
                 with
                 that
                 worshippe
              
               
               
                 which
                 in
                 Greeke
                 is
                 called
                 Latria
                 ,
                 and
                 in
                 Latin
                 cannot
                 be
                 expressed
                 in
                 one
                 worde
                 ,
                 being
                 a
                 seruice
                 due
                 onlie
                 to
                 the
                 diuinitie
                 ,
                 we
                 neither
                 worshippe
                 nor
                 teache
                 to
                 be
                 worshipped
                 but
                 God
                 onlie
                 .
              
               Reade
               the
               whole
               chapter
               and
               see
               his
               doctrine
               more
               at
               large
               and
               you
               shall
               finde
               that
               in
               S.
               Aug.
               opinion
               ,
               Christian
               religion
               doth
               not
               forbidde
               the
               religious
               worshippe
               of
               ma●tirs
               who
               are
               no
               more
               to
               be
               called
               dead
               men
               ,
               then
               Abraham
               Isaac
               and
               Iacob
               of
               whom
               our
               Sauiour
               himselfe
               testifieth
               that
               they
               are
               liuinge
               .
               Matt
               :
               22
               :
               32
               :
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               To
               pray
               to
               the
               angells
               and
               Saincts
               in
               heauen
            
             
             
               is
               lawfull
               and
               derogateth
               no
               whit
               at
               all
               from
               the
               mediation
               of
               Christ
               .
            
          
           
             The
             martirs
             are
             nominated
             in
             their
             place
             
             and
             order
             ,
             but
             yett
             are
             not
             prayed
             vnto
             by
             the
             priest
             that
             offereth
             Sacrifice
             .
             That
             prayer
             which
             is
             not
             made
             by
             Christ
             ,
             not
             
             onlie
             doth
             not
             abolish
             sinne
             ,
             but
             it selfe
             is
             
             turned
             into
             sinne
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Thoughe
               I
               be
               alreadie
               wearie
               of
               your
               impertinencies
               ,
               yett
               will
               I
               not
               stick
               to
               refute
               this
               last
               ,
               which
               is
               as
               apparant
               as
               the
               rest
               .
               First
               therefore
               ,
               thoughe
               you
               take
               the
               wordes
               of
               S.
               Aug.
               as
               nakedlie
               as
               you
               sett
               them
               downe
               ,
               yett
               doe
               they
               sounde
               noe
               Antithesis
               with
               my
               position
               ,
               hee
               onlie
               denyinge
               ,
               that
               Sacrifice
               is
               to
               be
               offered
               to
               martyrs
               which
               the
               manuall
               affirmeth
               not
               .
               Secondlie
               S.
               Aug.
               speaketh
               onlie
               of
               such
               inuocation
               ▪
               as
               the
               heathens
               vsed
               to
               theire
               false
               Gods
               ,
               as
               you
               your selfe
               cannot
               denie
               if
               you
               would
               but
               read
               that
               same
               chapter
               ,
               which
               is
               by
               you
               alleaged
               ,
               and
               therfore
               his
               doctrine
               cannot
               cōtradict
               my
               position
               which
               maketh
               not
               Saincts
               to
               be
               Gods
               ,
               nor
               yett
               to
               be
               worshipped
               as
               such
               .
               Furthermore
               in
               this
               your
               allegation
               ,
               I
               note
               the
               shamefull
               beggarie
               and
               miserie
               of
               your
               cause
               ,
               which
               is
               such
               that
               you
               cannott
               begge
               or
               borrowe
               of
               the
               holy
               Fathers
               the
               least
               seeminge
               couer
               for
               one
               soare
               without
               gaulinge
               or
               discoueringe
               another
               .
               For
               whilst
               you
               would
               couer
               your
               heresie
               of
               not
               prayinge
               to
               Saincts
               with
               a
               patch
               borrowed
               of
               S.
               Aug
               :
               you
               shameleslie
               discouer
               and
               lay
               open
               that
               other
               he●esie
               of
               yours
               wherein
               you
               denie
               the
               sacrifice
               of
               the
               churche
               .
               I
               will
               sett
               downe
               S.
               Aug
               :
               wordes
               that
               all
               such
               as
               are
               not
               as
               wilfullie
               blinde
               as
               your
               selfe
               may
               see
               both
               your
               vanitie
               in
               this
               Antithesis
               ,
               &
               the
               confutation
               of
               your
               heresie
               against
               the
               sacrifice
               of
               the
               newe
               Testament
               .
            
             
               
                 The
                 Gentils
                 (
                 saith
                 he
                 )
                 built
                 temples
                 ,
                 erected
                 alters
                 ,
              
               
               
                 ordered
                 priests
                 ,
                 and
                 did
                 sacrifice
                 to
                 such
                 Gods
                 ;
                 (
                 to
                 witt
                 Hercules
                 ,
                 Romulus
                 and
                 the
                 like
                 )
                 But
                 we
                 builde
                 not
                 churches
                 to
                 our
                 Martyrs
                 as
                 to
                 Gods
                 ,
                 but
                 memories
                 as
                 to
                 men
                 departed
                 ▪
                 whose
                 soules
                 liue
                 with
                 God
                 ;
                 neither
                 doe
                 we
                 erect
                 altars
                 there
                 to
                 Sacrifice
                 thereon
                 to
                 the
                 Martyrs
                 ,
                 but
                 we
                 Sacrifice
                 to
                 one
                 God
                 ,
                 whoe
                 is
                 our
                 God
                 ,
                 and
                 the
                 God
                 also
                 of
                 the
                 Martyrs
                 :
                 in
                 which
              
               
               
                 sacrifice
                 they
                 are
                 named
                 in
                 theire
                 place
                 and
                 rancke
                 ,
                 as
                 men
                 of
                 God
                 who
                 vanquished
                 the
                 world
                 in
                 confessinge
                 him
                 bu
                 they
                 are
                 not
                 inuocated
                 (
                 to
                 witt
                 as
                 Gods
                 )
                 by
                 the
                 priest
                 that
                 sacrificeth
                 ,
                 for
                 he
                 sacrificeth
                 to
                 God
                 and
                 not
                 to
                 them
                 ▪
                 thoughe
                 he
                 sacrifice
                 in
                 their
                 memorie
                 ,
                 because
                 he
                 it
                 the
                 priest
                 of
                 God
                 and
                 not
                 of
                 them
                 .
                 And
                 the
                 sacrifice
                 is
                 the
                 Boddie
                 of
                 Christ
                 ,
                 &c.
              
               Your
               other
               testimonie
               out
               of
               S.
               Aug.
               vppon
               the
               psalme
               108.
               is
               yett
               more
               foolishlie
               alleaged
               .
               As
               thoughe
               for
               soothe
               those
               prayers
               which
               are
               made
               to
               God
               by
               his
               Saincts
               ,
               were
               not
               made
               vnto
               him
               by
               his
               sonne
               our
               Sauiour
               ?
               Your
               peruersitie
               hath
               made
               you
               intollerablie
               ignorant
               if
               you
               thinke
               so
               .
               Againe
               S.
               Aug.
               there
               speaketh
               nothinge
               of
               prayers
               made
               to
               Saincts
               ,
               but
               of
               prayers
               made
               by
               Iudas
               ,
               who
               sellinge
               and
               betrayinge
               Christ
               ,
               did
               not
               onlie
               not
               pray
               by
               him
               ,
               but
               against
               him
               ,
               which
               being
               so
               ,
               hence
               I
               gather
               that
               if
               you
               sawe
               and
               read
               S.
               Aug.
               your selfe
               ,
               you
               haue
               a
               most
               wicked
               minde
               ,
               wittinglie
               labouringe
               to
               induce
               you●lesse
               carefull
               and
               warie
               reader
               into
               errour
               .
               A
               degree
               of
               malice
               almost
               proper
               to
               the
               deuill
               himselfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             The
             like
             may
             bee
             verified
             of
             the
             rest
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               cal
               this
               verifyinge
               ,
               I
               desire
               you
               should
               alway
               plead
               against
               me
               ,
               and
               neuer
               for
               me
               .
               For
               hitherto
               haue
               you
               not
               verified
               anie
               apparant
               contrarietie
               betwixt
               my
               position
               and
               the
               fathers
               doctrine
               ,
               thoughe
               you
               bragginglie
               pretend
               to
               bringe
               direct
               contradiction
               betweene
               them
               .
               And
               in
               this
               dare
               I
               stand
               to
               the
               iudgment
               of
               your
               owne
               patron
               of
               Canterburie
               ,
               vppon
               condition
               that
               he
               will
               read
               the
               places
               in
               the
               fathers
               cited
               by
               you
               .
               I
               will
               except
               that
               of
               S.
               Cyprian
               brought
               for
               the
               7.
               
               Antithesis
               ,
               which
               though
               no
               more
               true
               indeede
               then
               the
               rest
               ,
               yett
               hath
               it
               a
               more
               apparancie
               in
               wordes
               then
               the
               rest
               ,
               and
               so
               is
               willinglie
               vnderstoode
               by
               your selfe
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               aduersaries
               of
               S.
               Peters
               primacie
               .
            
             
               After
               your
               Antithesis
               you
               putt
               downe
               a
               roll
               of
               
               forged
               positions
               as
               thoughe
               I
               had
               imposed
               them
               vppon
               you
               and
               your
               fellowe
               protestants
               .
               To
               which
               I
               answere
               first
               in
               generall
               ,
               that
               if
               it
               had
               not
               pleased
               you
               to
               winke
               att
               ,
               and
               ouerlooke
               that
               which
               I
               say
               neither
               confusedlie
               nor
               obscurelie
               in
               my
               preface
               ,
               you
               would
               not
               (
               if
               you
               would
               haue
               sayd
               the
               truth
               )
               charge
               me
               with
               forgeing
               anie
               positions
               against
               you
               .
               I
               will
               here
               sett
               downe
               myne
               owne
               wordes
               which
               shall
               cleare
               me
               of
               that
               imputation
               ,
               I
               thinke
               euen
               with
               mine
               aduersaries
               ,
               if
               they
               be
               not
               wilfullie
               malignant
               .
               Thus
               therefore
               I
               say
               there
               .
               
                 First
                 I
                 jett
                 downe
                 the
                 Catholike
              
               
               
                 Roman
                 beliefe
                 in
                 direct
                 and
                 plaine
                 positions
                 &c.
                 
                 And
                 last
                 of
                 all
                 I
                 putt
                 downe
                 the
                 position
                 contradictorie
                 to
                 the
                 Catholike
                 doctrine
                 ▪
                 to
                 the
                 end
                 that
                 the
                 indfferent
                 reader
                 may
                 more
                 easilie
                 iudge
                 ,
                 whether
                 doctrine
                 hath
                 better
                 grounde
                 in
                 holy
                 Scripture
                 .
                 And
                 further
                 that
                 he
                 that
                 will
                 impugne
                 this
                 treatise
                 ,
                 may
                 see
                 ,
                 what
                 he
                 hath
                 to
                 prooue
                 if
                 hee
                 wil
                 prooue
                 any
                 thinge
                 to
                 purpose
                 .
              
               That
               is
               if
               he
               will
               prooue
               anie
               thinge
               against
               the
               Catholike
               Faith
               ,
               which
               onlie
               I
               vndertake
               in
               the
               Manuall
               to
               prooue
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               impugne
               or
               disprooue
               the
               protestants
               ,
               further
               then
               the
               proofe
               of
               one
               contradictorie
               ,
               is
               the
               disproofe
               of
               the
               other
               .
               Without
               reason
               therefore
               doe
               you
               charge
               me
               with
               forgeinge
               positions
               ,
               thoughe
               amongst
               these
               which
               I
               sett
               downe
               vnder
               this
               note
               in
               the
               margent
               ,
               Protestants
               positiōs
               ,
               some
               were
               founde
               ,
               which
               they
               doe
               not
               mantayne
               (
               which
               whether
               it
               be
               so
               or
               no
               we
               shall
               presentlie
               examine
               )
               for
               I
               putt
               the
               position
               contradictorie
               to
               the
               Catholike
               ,
               vnder
               the
               title
               of
               protestant
               position
               for
               this
               cause
               (
               as
               I
               haue
               sayde
               before
               )
               that
               if
               anie
               protestant
               will
               denie
               or
               impugne
               the
               catholike
               position
               prooued
               by
               me
               ,
               he
               may
               see
               the
               direct
               position
               which
               he
               is
               to
               prooue
               .
            
             
               If
               therefore
               there
               be
               anie
               of
               the
               catholique
               positions
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               ,
               admitted
               and
               acknowledged
               as
               true
               and
               orthodoxe
               ,
               then
               is
               not
               the
               contradictorie
               position
               inforced
               or
               imposed
               vppon
               them
               to
               prooue
               .
               But
               if
               they
               reiect
               all
               the
               Catholicke
               positions
               
               as
               false
               and
               erroneous
               (
               as
               they
               will
               be
               found
               to
               doe
               )
               then
               must
               they
               whether
               they
               will
               or
               noe
               ,
               acknowledge
               the
               contradictorie
               position
               to
               be
               theirs
               ,
               vnles
               they
               will
               graunt
               that
               both
               contradictorie
               positions
               may
               be
               true
               or
               both
               false
               ,
               which
               noe
               man
               euer
               yett
               admitted
               .
               And
               thus
               much
               sir
               for
               your
               charge
               of
               forged
               positions
               in
               generall
               ,
               now
               we
               will
               examine
               the
               particular
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             I.
             
          
           
             Forged
             positions
             .
          
           
             All
             Articles
             of
             faith
             are
             contayned
             expressly
             in
             holy
             Scripture
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Of
               this
               position
               thus
               sett
               downe
               it
               is
               true
               ,
               you
               say
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               forged
               ,
               but
               it
               is
               by
               your selfe
               ,
               not
               by
               mee
               :
               for
               it
               is
               no
               where
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               .
               The
               position
               of
               mine
               which
               you
               aime
               at
               beinge
               this
               page
               20.
               vnder
               this
               note
               :
               
                 Protestant
                 position
                 1.
                 
                 All
                 articles
                 of
                 faith
                 are
                 so
                 expresselie
                 contained
                 in
                 scripture
                 as
                 out
                 of
                 them
                 onlie
                 full
                 proofe
                 may
                 be
                 made
                 thereof
                 .
              
               Which
               position
               if
               you
               will
               denie
               to
               be
               yours
               ;
               take
               here
               your
               owne
               wordes
               in
               witnes
               against
               you
               .
               
                 If
                 you
              
               
               
                 meane
                 the
                 sence
                 and
                 substance
                 ,
                 and
                 that
                 which
                 may
                 be
                 deduced
                 by
                 necessarie
                 consequence
                 ,
                 then
                 it
                 is
                 false
                 that
                 full
                 proofe
                 cannot
                 be
                 made
                 of
                 all
                 articles
                 of
                 faith
                 out
                 of
                 scripture
                 .
              
               I
               am
               content
               to
               bringe
               your
               owne
               Testimonie
               onlie
               in
               a
               thinge
               so
               manifest
               ,
               without
               further
               proofe
               out
               of
               other
               of
               your
               owne
               sect
               .
               Onlie
               I
               cannot
               sufficientlie
               marueyle
               ,
               what
               complexion
               you
               are
               of
               ,
               that
               haue
               so
               littell
               care
               and
               feelinge
               of
               your
               owne
               credit
               ,
               and
               of
               the
               cause
               you
               would
               defend
               ,
               that
               you
               committ
               so
               manie
               fowle
               fayles
               in
               so
               fewe
               lines
               .
               Certainlie
               if
               you
               hold
               on
               in
               this
               manner
               ,
               you
               shall
               haue
               the
               prise
               of
               all
               either
               falle
               or
               foolishe
               fellowes
               that
               euer
               blotted
               paper
               ,
               but
               let
               vs
               proceede
               further
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             II.
             
          
           
             All
             places
             of
             holy
             scriptures
             contayninge
             
             articles
             of
             faith
             are
             easie
             to
             be
             vnderstoode
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               fayle
               in
               puttinge
               downe
               this
               position
               also
               ,
               (
               so
               harde
               it
               is
               for
               you
               to
               deale
               honestlie
               )
               which
               in
               the
               Manuall
               is
               sett
               downe
               thus
               .
               
                 All
                 places
                 of
                 holy
                 scripture
                 contayninge
                 articles
                 of
                 faith
                 ,
                 the
                 obstinate
                 misbeleefe
                 where
                 of
                 is
                 damnable
                 ,
                 are
                 easie
                 to
                 be
                 vnderstoode
                 ,
                 and
                 therefore
                 require
                 noe
                 rule
                 to
                 be
                 interpreted
                 by
                 .
              
               Which
               proposition
               you
               cannot
               denie
               to
               be
               yours
               without
               denyinge
               your selfe
               .
               For
               doe
               you
               not
               remember
               that
               in
               your
               third
               Antithesis
               ,
               you
               say
               I
               contradict
               S.
               Epiphaniu
               ▪
               for
               sayinge
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               darke
               and
               difficult
               to
               be
               vnderstoode
               ?
               why
               doe
               you
               therfore
               denie
               this
               position
               ,
               
                 All
                 places
                 of
                 scripture
                 contain
                 〈…〉
                 matters
                 of
                 faith
                 ,
                 are
                 easie
                 to
                 be
                 vnderstoode
                 ,
              
               here
               sett
               downe
               by
               you
               to
               be
               yours
               ,
               vnles
               you
               will
               also
               cōtradict
               that
               holy
               Father
               ,
               which
               you
               falselie
               obiect
               vnto
               me
               ?
               but
               it
               is
               is
               a
               bootles
               thinge
               to
               tell
               you
               of
               contradictions
               ,
               they
               are
               so
               frequent
               with
               you
               .
               Therfore
               to
               lett
               that
               passe
               that
               you
               may
               knowe
               if
               you
               were
               so
               ignorant
               in
               your
               owne
               doctrine
               as
               you
               knewe
               it
               not
               before
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               good
               protestant
               doctrine
               ,
               heare
               your
               Father
               and
               founder
               Luther
               what
               he
               saith
               of
               his
               matter
               .
               
                 We
                 must
                 geue
              
               
               
                 this
                 sentence
                 the
                 scripture
                 beinge
                 iudge
                 that
                 it
                 is
                 of
                 it selfe
                 most
                 certaine
                 ,
                 most
                 easie
                 ,
                 most
                 open
                 or
                 apparant
                 ,
                 interpreter
                 of
                 it selfe
                 ,
                 proouinge
                 all
                 thinges
                 ,
                 iudgeing
                 all
                 thinges
                 ,
                 and
                 illustratinge
                 all
                 thinges
                 .
              
               And
               in
               another
               place
               .
               
                 I
                 say
                 of
                 the
                 whole
                 scripture
                 .
                 I
                 will
                 haue
                 noe
                 part
                 thereof
                 to
                 be
                 obscure
                 .
              
               And
               this
               shall
               suffice
               for
               the
               present
               to
               purge
               me
               of
               forgerie
               in
               this
               matter
               ,
               hauinge
               more
               to
               say
               thereof
               hereafter
               when
               we
               shall
               come
               to
               speake
               of
               the
               article
               it selfe
               if
               we
               goe
               together
               so
               farre
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             III.
             
          
           
             The
             true
             churche
             of
             Christ
             is
             not
             necessarilie
             Catholike
             or
             vniuersall
             neither
             in
             respect
             of
             tyme
             nor
             place
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               position
               you
               sett
               downe
               trulie
               ,
               which
               I
               maruel
               that
               you
               denie
               to
               be
               yours
               .
               Bycause
               the
               contradictorie
               position
               being
               admitted
               for
               true
               ,
               as
               it
               must
               necessarilie
               be
               ,
               if
               this
               be
               false
               ,
               your
               protestant
               churche
               ,
               which
               noe
               witt
               nor
               coninge
               can
               euer
               shewe
               to
               haue
               hadd
               either
               kinde
               of
               vniuersalitie
               ,
               must
               of
               necessitie
               be
               a
               forged
               or
               counterfait
               churche
               .
               And
               for
               what
               other
               cause
               thinke
               you
               did
               Luther
               in
               the
               Creede
               ,
               turned
               by
               him
               into
               Dutch
               ,
               in
               steede
               of
               the
               Catholicke
               churche
               ,
               thrust
               in
               the
               Christian
               churche
               ,
               but
               to
               auoyde
               the
               force
               of
               the
               worde
               Catholicke
               ?
               which
               he
               did
               so
               dislike
               ,
               that
               his
               disciples
               in
               the
               conferrence
               att
               Altemberge
               reiected
               a
               certayne
               proposition
               
               ascribed
               to
               him
               wherein
               was
               this
               worde
               Catholicke
               ,
               ●lleadginge
               for
               a
               sufficient
               reason
               of
               theire
               so
               doinge
               ,
               because
               that
               worde
               Catholicke
               did
               not
               sauour
               Luthers
               phrase
               .
               And
               for
               full
               proofe
               that
               this
               position
               is
               truly
               protestanticall
               ,
               reade
               the
               laborious
               booke
               
                 De
                 authore
                 &
                 essentia
                 protestanticae
                 Ecclesiae
                 authore
                 Richardo
                 Smitheo
                 ,
              
               printed
               this
               yeare
               containinge
               tenne
               ineuitable
               demonstrations
               taken
               out
               of
               the
               protestants
               owne
               doctrine
               ,
               that
               Luther
               was
               the
               author
               of
               the
               sayde
               protestants
               churche
               ,
               whence
               it
               necessarilie
               is
               concluded
               ,
               that
               in
               theire
               doctrine
               the
               true
               church
               is
               not
               necessarilie
               Catholicke
               ,
               neither
               in
               respect
               of
               tyme
               or
               place
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             IV.
             
          
           
             The
             true
             churche
             of
             Christ
             may
             be
             without
             a
             lawfull
             personnall
             succession
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               denie
               this
               position
               to
               be
               true
               in
               your
               doctrine
               ,
               then
               must
               you
               necessarilie
               graunt
               the
               contradictorie
               to
               be
               true
               ;
               which
               if
               you
               doe
               your
               newlie
               reformed
               churche
               ,
               will
               euidentlie
               appeare
               no
               lawfull
               churche
               .
               And
               for
               further
               proofe
               of
               the
               want
               of
               succession
               of
               pastours
               in
               your
               Englishe
               Churche
               ,
               I
               referr
               you
               to
               my
               booke
               in
               answere
               to
               Mr.
               Mason
               ,
               
               which
               till
               it
               be
               answered
               (
               I
               say
               answered
               indeede
               ,
               and
               not
               onlie
               replyed
               vnto
               in
               a
               heape
               of
               wordes
               as
               you
               haue
               donne
               to
               my
               Manuall
               )
               I
               shall
               euer
               holde
               as
               a
               sufficient
               proofe
               ,
               and
               as
               for
               your
               Sister
               churches
               of
               Fraunce
               ,
               they
               make
               profession
               in
               theire
               verie
               confession
               of
               their●
               faith
               ,
               
                 that
                 the
                 state
                 of
                 the
                 churche
              
               
               
                 haueinge
                 been
                 interrupted
                 ,
                 it
                 was
                 necessarie
                 that
                 God
                 shoulde
                 raise
                 vppe
                 men
                 by
                 extraordinarie
                 meanes
                 to
                 repaire
                 his
                 church
                 a
                 newe
                 which
                 was
                 ruined
              
               Iudge
               you
               therefore
               whether
               they
               denie
               the
               position
               which
               you
               say
               is
               forged
               by
               me
               against
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             V.
             
          
           
             The
             lawfull
             succession
             of
             pastours
             ,
             may
             be
             without
             Consecration
             or
             authenticall
             mission
             by
             anie
             ordinarie
             power
             residinge
             in
             the
             Churche
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               houlde
               your
               Sister
               churches
               of
               France
               to
               be
               lawfull
               churches
               you
               cannot
               denie
               this
               position
               to
               be
               true
               in
               your
               doctrine
               ,
               as
               appeareth
               by
               theire
               confession
               euen
               nowe
               alleaged
               whereunto
               I
               referr
               you
               .
               And
               as
               for
               the
               consecration
               of
               your
               pastours
               of
               your
               newe
               churche
               of
               Englande
               ,
               it
               is
               so
               farr
               from
               beinge
               ordinarie
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               neuer
               hearde
               of
               before
               Kinge
               
               Edwarde
               the
               sixt
               his
               raigne
               ,
               when
               first
               it
               was
               deuised
               as
               I
               haue
               euidentlie
               prooued
               in
               my
               booke
               against
               Mr.
               Mason
               .
               And
               therefore
               thoughe
               you
               would
               seeme
               to
               denie
               this
               position
               in
               worde
               ,
               yett
               must
               you
               necessarilie
               admitte
               it
               in
               deede
               ,
               vnles
               you
               wil
               graunt
               freelie
               (
               that
               which
               is
               true
               )
               that
               you
               haue
               no
               true
               pastours
               att
               all
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             VI.
             
          
           
             It
             is
             not
             necessarie
             for
             euerie
             mans
             saluation
             that
             he
             be
             baptized
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               seemeth
               you
               haue
               not
               yett
               learned
               the
               rudiments
               of
               your
               religion
               ,
               seinge
               you
               number
               this
               position
               
               amōgst
               those
               that
               you
               esteeme
               forged
               against
               you
               .
               See
               therefore
               for
               your
               better
               instruction
               in
               this
               point
               of
               Catechisme
               ,
               your
               grande
               maister
               in
               reformation
               Iohn
               Caluin
               in
               Antidoto
               Concilij
               ad
               Sess
               .
               cap.
               5.
               and
               lib.
               4.
               instit
               .
               cap.
               16.
               
               §
               .
               24.
               25.
               
               Peter
               Martyr
               another
               of
               your
               maysters
               vppon
               these
               wordes
               of
               the
               Apostle
               .
               
                 Alinqui
                 filij
                 vesiri
                 in
                 mundi
                 essent
                 .
                 1.
                 
                 Cor.
              
               Fulke
               Marci
               1.
               
               Sect.
               5.
               with
               the
               whole
               crue
               of
               Puritans
               or
               Caluinistes
               .
               Or
               if
               you
               will
               not
               looke
               so
               farr
               ,
               see
               the
               first
               dayes
               conferrence
               of
               Hampton
               Courte
               ,
               and
               see
               what
               you
               finde
               there
               of
               this
               point
               .
               And
               either
               blushe
               at
               your
               ignorance
               in
               the
               principales
               of
               your
               religion
               ,
               or
               if
               you
               like
               not
               the
               doctrine
               ,
               leaue
               the
               companie
               where
               it
               is
               taught
               ,
               and
               vnite
               your selfe
               to
               the
               Catholicke
               Churche
               where
               it
               is
               abhorred
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             VII
             .
          
           
             Matrimonie
             contracted
             betweene
             Christians
             is
             but
             a
             ciuill
             contract
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               are
               soone
               wearie
               of
               honest
               dealinge
               ,
               and
               quicklie
               returne
               to
               your
               accustomed
               falsifications
               .
               I
               doe
               blushe
               in
               your
               behalfe
               that
               I
               am
               forced
               to
               tell
               you
               so
               often
               of
               it
               in
               so
               fewe
               lines
               .
               The
               position
               in
               the
               Manuall
               addeth
               to
               the
               wordes
               sett
               downe
               by
               you
               ;
               
                 And
                 not
                 Sacrament
                 properlie
              
               .
               Which
               if
               you
               had
               added
               ,
               you
               would
               haue
               been
               ashamed
               to
               haue
               saide
               the
               position
               to
               be
               forged
               .
               If
               you
               will
               cauill
               &
               say
               that
               thoughe
               it
               be
               no
               Sacrament
               ,
               yett
               is
               it
               not
               a
               bare
               ciuill
               contract
               :
               I
               ,
               will
               not
               stande
               here
               to
               debate
               that
               question
               with
               you
               beinge
               not
               materiall
               to
               my
               purpose
               ,
               which
               was
               to
               prooue
               Matrimonie
               to
               be
               a
               Sacrament
               ,
               accordinge
               to
               the
               catholicke
               doctrine
               ,
               aboue
               and
               besides
               the
               ciuill
               contract
               therein
               contayned
               ,
               and
               if
               you
               should
               be
               vrged
               to
               shewe
               in
               the
               precise
               nature
               of
               matrimonie
               ,
               anie
               thinge
               more
               then
               a
               ciuill
               contract
               ,
               seeinge
               you
               denie
               it
               to
               be
               a
               Sacramēt
               ,
               you
               would
               I
               knowe
               be
               troubled
               ,
               and
               would
               not
               
               easilie
               quitte
               your selfe
               of
               that
               bussines
               .
               And
               Caluin
               whose
               authoritie
               is
               of
               some
               weight
               with
               you
               ,
               compareth
               it
               to
               the
               arte
               of
               husbandrie
               ,
               barbinge
               and
               weauinge
               lib.
               4.
               
               Instit
               .
               cap.
               18.
               
               §
               .
               34.
               
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             VIII
             .
          
           
             Baptisme
             and
             the
             lordes
             supper
             are
             not
             instruments
             of
             Grace
             ,
             but
             onlie
             signes
             of
             gods
             good
             will
             towardes
             vs
             ,
             or
             meanes
             to
             stirre
             vppe
             faith
             in
             vs.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Heere
               againe
               I
               am
               constrained
               to
               tell
               you
               of
               your
               false
               dealinge
               .
               The
               position
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               is
               this
               .
               Neither
               Baptisme
               nor
               the
               other
               Sacraments
               of
               the
               newe
               lawe
               geue
               grace
               as
               cause
               thereof
               ,
               but
               are
               onlie
               signes
               of
               gods
               good
               will
               towardes
               vs
               ,
               or
               meanes
               to
               stirre
               vppe
               Fayth
               in
               vs.
               What
               materiall
               diuersitie
               you
               will
               finde
               betwixt
               this
               position
               and
               the
               25.
               article
               of
               your
               churche
               ,
               I
               knowe
               not
               .
               It
               saith
               thus
               .
               
                 Sacraments
                 be
                 not
                 onlie
                 badges
                 or
                 tokens
                 of
                 christian
                 mens
                 profession
                 ,
                 but
                 rather
                 they
                 be
                 certaine
                 sure
                 witnesses
                 and
                 effectuall
                 signes
                 of
                 grace
                 ,
                 and
                 gods
                 good-will
                 towardes
                 vs
                 ,
                 by
                 which
                 he
                 doth
                 worke
                 inuisiblie
                 in
                 vs
                 ,
                 and
                 not
                 onlie
                 quicken
                 ,
                 but
                 also
                 confirme
                 and
                 stregthen
                 our
                 fayth
                 in
                 him
                 .
              
               And
               your
               maister
               in
               reformation
               Caluin
               speaketh
               yett
               more
               conformablie
               to
               the
               position
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               ;
               heare
               his
               owne
               wordes
               .
               
                 This
                 onlie
                 office
                 is
                 inioyned
                 to
                 the
                 Sacraments
                 to
              
               
               
                 witnes
                 to
                 vs
                 and
                 confirme
                 in
                 vs
                 gods
                 good
                 will.
              
               And
               againe
               .
               
                 The
                 Sacraments
                 are
                 to
                 vs
                 from
                 God
                 ,
                 as
                 are
                 messengers
                 of
                 gladd
                 bidinge
                 from
                 men
                 ;
                 or
                 as
                 an
                 ernest
                 pennie
                 in
                 stricking
                 couenants
                 ;
                 as
                 not
                 geueinge
                 anie
                 grace
                 of
                 themselues
                 ,
                 but
                 declare
                 and
                 shewe
                 ,
                 and
                 as
                 they
                 are
                 earnest
                 money
                 or
                 tokens
                 )
                 doe
                 ratifie
                 in
                 vs
                 those
                 thinges
                 which
                 by
                 gods
                 liberalitie
                 are
                 geuen
                 vnto
                 vs.
              
               And
               for
               more
               cleare
               explication
               of
               his
               meaninge
               he
               vseth
               in
               the
               18.
               
               Section
               follwinge
               the
               examples
               of
               the
               raynbowe
               ,
               and
               of
               Gedions
               fleece
               .
               And
               this
               shall
               suffice
               for
               this
               present
               to
               cleare
               me
               of
               
               forgerie
               ,
               and
               to
               prooue
               you
               ignorant
               in
               the
               principales
               of
               your
               owne
               erroneous
               doctrine
               ,
               vnles
               peraduenture
               you
               be
               ashamed
               of
               it
               and
               therefore
               denie
               it
               to
               be
               yours
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             IX
             .
          
           
             Iustification
             is
             onlie
             remission
             of
             sinnes
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               are
               as
               obstinate
               in
               false
               dealinge
               as
               if
               you
               had
               sworne
               neuer
               to
               deale
               truelie
               .
               The
               position
               in
               the
               manuall
               is
               sett
               downe
               in
               these
               wordes
               .
               
                 Iustification
                 is
                 onlie
                 the
                 remission
                 of
                 sinnes
                 without
                 renmation
                 of
                 spirit
                 or
                 interiour
                 Sanctification
                 .
              
               which
               position
               if
               you
               dare
               to
               denie
               to
               be
               trulie
               protestanticall
               ,
               all
               those
               of
               your
               sect
               that
               haue
               written
               of
               Iustification
               will
               condemne
               you
               of
               ignorance
               in
               theire
               doctrine
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             X.
             
          
           
             By
             Iustification
             sinne
             is
             onlie
             couered
             and
             not
             quite
             taken
             away
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Why
               did
               you
               omitte
               to
               say
               as
               I
               said
               ,
               seeing
               the
               position
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               is
               so
               breife
               in
               these
               wordes
               .
               
                 By
                 Iustification
                 sinne
                 is
                 onlie
                 couered
                 or
                 not
                 imputed
                 ;
                 and
                 not
                 washed
                 or
                 quite
                 taken
                 away
                 ?
              
               Surelie
               for
               noe
               other
               cause
               I
               thinke
               ,
               but
               to
               keepe
               your selfe
               in
               custome
               with
               clippinge
               and
               gueldinge
               ,
               as
               he
               did
               that
               did
               steale
               strawes
               to
               keepe
               his
               fingers
               in
               we
               with
               filchinge
               ;
               but
               peraduenture
               you
               feared
               the
               worde
               not
               imputed
               ,
               so
               often
               abused
               by
               your
               maysters
               ;
               and
               the
               worde
               washed
               ,
               vsed
               in
               the
               holy
               Scriptures
               .
               Howsoeuer
               your
               errour
               in
               imputinge
               to
               me
               sorgerie
               in
               this
               position
               is
               not
               pardonable
               .
               Cannot
               you
               vtter
               one
               position
               but
               with
               manifest
               falsification
               or
               palpable
               ignorance
               or
               both
               ?
               Reade
               onlie
               the
               seconde
               article
               of
               Luther
               (
               for
               I
               will
               trouble
               you
               with
               no
               moe
               
               referrences
               att
               this
               tyme
               and
               see
               his
               doctrine
               in
               this
               point
               .
               His
               wordes
               are
               these
               .
               
                 It
                 is
                 another
                 thinge
                 that
                 al
                 sinnes
                 are
                 remitted
                 ,
                 and
                 another
                 that
                 all
                 sinnes
                 are
                 taken
                 away
                 .
                 Baptisme
                 doth
                 remitte
                 all
                 ,
                 but
                 it
              
               
               
                 taketh
                 none
                 quite
                 away
                 ,
                 but
                 beginneth
                 onlie
                 to
                 take
                 them
                 away
              
               Againe
               your
               knowne
               doctrine
               of
               imputatiue
               and
               not
               inherent
               iustice
               ,
               doth
               it
               not
               necessarilie
               inforce
               you
               to
               say
               ,
               that
               our
               sinnes
               are
               only
               couered
               or
               not
               imputed
               ,
               but
               not
               washed
               and
               quite
               taken
               away
               ?
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             POSITIO
             XI
             .
          
           
             Man
             thoughe
             holpen
             by
             Gods
             grace
             ,
             hath
             not
             free
             will
             ,
             either
             to
             fly
             ame
             euill
             ,
             or
             to
             doe
             good
             auaylinge
             to
             his
             Saluation
             ,
             but
             in
             both
             is
             forced
             to
             doe
             that
             which
             God
             hath
             ordayned
             he
             shoulde
             doe
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               position
               haue
               you
               trulie
               sett
               downe
               .
               But
               why
               doe
               you
               say
               that
               it
               is
               forged
               ?
               The
               sole
               title
               of
               your
               first
               maister
               Luther
               his
               booke
               
                 de
                 seruo
                 arburio
              
               .
               might
               haue
               taught
               you
               that
               it
               is
               his
               professed
               doctrine
               .
               Reade
               further
               his
               36.
               article
               where
               besides
               manie
               other
               thinges
               to
               this
               purpose
               he
               hath
               these
               expresse
               
               wordes
               .
               
                 I
                 said
                 ill
                 that
                 freewill
                 before
                 grace
                 is
                 a
                 meere
                 rule
                 :
                 But
                 I
                 shoulde
                 haue
                 sayde
                 that
                 frewill
                 is
                 a
                 fiction
                 or
                 a
                 title
                 without
                 the
                 thinge
                 .
                 Because
                 it
                 is
                 in
                 no
                 mans
                 power
                 to
                 thinke
                 either
                 good
                 or
                 badd
                 ,
                 but
                 all
                 thinges
                 (
                 as
                 Wicleffe
                 his
                 article
                 condemned
                 at
                 Constance
                 ri
                 helie
                 teacheth
                 )
                 doe
                 happen
                 by
                 absolute
                 necessitie
              
            
             
               And
               thus
               you
               see
               Sir
               your
               Catalogue
               of
               antithesis
               and
               roll
               of
               forged
               posi●ions
               which
               you
               muster
               in
               the
               beginninge
               of
               your
               booke
               ,
               to
               deceiue
               your
               l●sse
               warie
               reader
               ,
               and
               disgrace
               your
               aduersarie
               ,
               is
               blowne
               away
               more
               easilie
               ,
               then
               a
               Cop-webb
               is
               broken
               with
               the
               winde
               ,
               to
               your
               owne
               irrecouerable
               disgrace
               and
               dishonour
               ,
               vnless
               you
               prooue
               more
               solide
               and
               sincere
               in
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               booke
               .
               Which
               if
               you
               doe
               not
               ,
               I
               shall
               much
               marueyle
               if
               euer
               you
               be
               more
               imployed
               by
               your
               Metropolitane
               ,
               either
               to
               defend
               your
               owne
               ,
               or
               impugne
               the
               Catholicke
               doctrine
               .
            
             
               And
               before
               I
               goe
               anie
               further
               with
               you
               ,
               I
               would
               
               haue
               you
               to
               vnderstande
               ,
               that
               when
               I
               putt
               downe
               the
               position
               contradictorie
               to
               the
               Catholicke
               ,
               I
               doe
               not
               distinguishe
               betwixt
               this
               or
               that
               sect
               of
               protestants
               ,
               but
               include
               them
               all
               that
               hold
               or
               teache
               against
               the
               Catholicke
               doctrine
               ,
               whether
               they
               be
               Lutherans
               ,
               Zuinglians
               ,
               Anabaptists
               or
               Parlamentariās
               ,
               all
               which
               with
               the
               rest
               of
               all
               the
               re
               malignāt
               broode
               ,
               I
               vnderstande
               by
               the
               name
               of
               protestants
               .
               Nowe
               I
               will
               goe
               forwarde
               with
               you
               in
               this
               order
               ;
               I
               will
               first
               sett
               downe
               the
               wordes
               of
               the
               Manuall
               in
               sections
               as
               you
               haue
               deuided
               it
               ,
               then
               I
               will
               putt
               downe
               your
               answere
               in
               your
               owne
               wordes
               ,
               and
               lastlie
               I
               will
               add
               myne
               owne
               reply
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           THE
           PREFACE
           TO
           THE
           READER
           .
        
         
           
             MANVALL
             .
             SECTION
             I.
             
          
        
         
           THis
           briefe
           treatise
           (
           courteous
           reader
           )
           beinge
           at
           the
           request
           of
           a
           friende
           speedilie
           compiled
           ,
           may
           serue
           to
           conuince
           them
           of
           manifest
           calumnie
           ,
           who
           no
           lesse
           vntrulie
           ,
           then
           bouldlie
           doe
           affirme
           the
           doctrine
           of
           the
           Catholicke
           Romane
           Churche
           ,
           to
           be
           either
           against
           holy
           scriptures
           ,
           or
           at
           least
           to
           haue
           no
           grounde
           from
           them
           .
           And
           it
           may
           also
           geue
           satisfaction
           vnto
           such
           ,
           as
           more
           vppon
           the
           confident
           boldenes
           of
           them
           that
           affirme
           the
           Romane
           Religion
           to
           be
           destitute
           of
           scriptures
           ,
           then
           vppon
           anie
           other
           reason
           ,
           are
           drawne
           either
           to
           thinke
           this
           to
           be
           true
           ,
           or
           at
           
           least
           to
           doubte
           of
           the
           truthe
           of
           the
           contrarie
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             He
             that
             aduisedlie
             shall
             read
             your
             Manuall
             of
             Controuersies
             ,
             will
             easilie
             beleeue
             you
             were
             in
             haste
             when
             you
             contriued
             it
             ,
             forgettinge
             that
             wise
             speach
             of
             Cato
             ,
             reported
             by
             Hierome
             
               (
               Sat
            
             
             
               cito
               ,
               si
               sat
               bene
            
             )
             For
             whether
             it
             were
             your
             great
             celeritie
             ,
             which
             is
             the
             mother
             of
             manie
             slippes
             ,
             or
             whether
             it
             be
             the
             badnes
             of
             your
             cause
             ,
             that
             admitteth
             noe
             iust
             ,
             scarse
             probable
             proofe
             ,
             so
             perfunctorilie
             and
             lightlie
             
               (
               tanquam
               canis
               à
               nido
            
             )
             you
             haue
             touched
             these
             matters
             ,
             as
             if
             of
             purpose
             you
             would
             haue
             setled
             in
             the
             mindes
             of
             men
             ,
             that
             which
             you
             labour
             to
             ouerthrowe
             .
             So
             that
             if
             poperie
             haue
             noe
             surer
             footinge
             in
             the
             sacred
             worde
             of
             God
             ,
             then
             this
             which
             you
             haue
             found
             for
             it
             ,
             then
             it
             will
             appeare
             noe
             calumnnie
             ,
             but
             a
             manifest
             veritie
             ,
             that
             the
             Roman
             religion
             is
             without
             grounde
             of
             scripture
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               thoughe
               your
               wordes
               be
               manie
               ,
               &
               as
               emptie
               of
               substance
               as
               they
               are
               full
               of
               falsities
               ,
               and
               therefore
               will
               neither
               quitte
               labour
               nor
               cost
               to
               relate
               them
               ,
               yett
               will
               I
               sustaine
               so
               much
               paines
               ,
               as
               to
               sett
               them
               downe
               as
               they
               lye
               ,
               so
               farr
               as
               I
               shall
               goe
               with
               you
               ,
               I
               say
               so
               farr
               as
               I
               shall
               goe
               with
               you
               ,
               because
               I
               intend
               not
               to
               loose
               so
               much
               tyme
               as
               to
               looke
               thorowe
               your
               whole
               booke
               .
               As
               for
               the
               slippes
               therefore
               you
               speake
               of
               ,
               if
               you
               shall
               make
               good
               but
               one
               quarter
               so
               manie
               in
               my
               whole
               booke
               (
               notwithstandinge
               the
               the
               celeritie
               I
               vsed
               in
               compilinge
               it
               )
               as
               I
               haue
               allreadie
               marked
               grosse
               and
               flatt
               falls
               in
               three
               pages
               onlie
               
               of
               yours
               (
               after
               fower
               whole
               yeres
               studie
               in
               the
               worke
               )
               I
               promise
               you
               faithfullie
               I
               will
               commend
               it
               to
               the
               fire
               ,
               to
               be
               forged
               a
               newe
               .
               And
               thoughe
               Catholicke
               religion
               (
               which
               you
               disdainsullie
               call
               poperie
               )
               had
               no
               other
               footinge
               in
               holy
               Scripture
               ,
               then
               that
               which
               I
               haue
               sett
               downe
               in
               proofe
               of
               it
               ,
               yett
               will
               it
               be
               better
               grounded
               ,
               then
               your
               protestantisme
               ,
               euen
               by
               the
               iudgment
               of
               your
               owne
               freindes
               and
               myne
               aduersaries
               ,
               if
               they
               will
               but
               with
               one
               sparke
               of
               iudgment
               and
               indifferrencie
               parallel
               your
               proofes
               and
               myne
               together
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             First
             you
             confesse
             that
             the
             Scripture
             is
             not
             the
             totall
             but
             the
             partiall
             rule
             of
             your
             faith
             ,
             therefore
             that
             parte
             of
             your
             faith
             ,
             which
             is
             with
             out
             the
             compasse
             of
             this
             rule
             ,
             hath
             no
             proofe
             or
             grounde
             from
             it
             ,
             for
             the
             rule
             is
             that
             whereby
             euerie
             thinge
             is
             prooued
             .
             Nowe
             the
             thinges
             without
             the
             
             compasse
             of
             this
             rule
             ,
             your selfe
             acknowledge
             to
             be
             manie
             ,
             yea
             the
             greatest
             parte
             of
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             for
             the
             least
             parte
             is
             come
             vnto
             vs
             by
             writinge
             as
             others
             teache
             and
             your selfe
             accorde
             :
             therefore
             a
             small
             parte
             of
             your
             faith
             can
             claime
             this
             birth-right
             from
             the
             Scriptures
             ,
             but
             is
             auouched
             by
             your
             teachers
             ,
             beleeued
             by
             your
             hearers
             onlie
             on
             the
             creditt
             of
             tradition
             ,
             which
             euerie
             one
             might
             knowe
             if
             anie
             of
             your
             deuines
             woulde
             consigne
             vnto
             vs
             a
             catologue
             of
             your
             traditions
             ;
             A
             matter
             that
             in
             conscience
             they
             ought
             to
             doe
             ,
             fith
             
             your
             counsell
             chargeth
             to
             geue
             equall
             reuerence
             to
             traditions
             ,
             as
             is
             afforded
             to
             holy
             scriptures
             .
             And
             yett
             none
             of
             you
             haue
             performed
             this
             taske
             ,
             least
             your
             aduersaries
             should
             see
             the
             pouertie
             of
             your
             religion
             ,
             how
             naked
             it
             is
             of
             the
             protection
             
             of
             scriptures
             ;
             And
             your selues
             haue
             a
             startinge
             hole
             to
             fly
             vnto
             vnwritten
             verities
             and
             traditions
             ,
             when
             you
             cannot
             deriue
             your
             doctrine
             from
             the
             written
             worde
             of
             God.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               confesse
               the
               Scriptures
               to
               be
               a
               partiall
               rule
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               if
               we
               speake
               of
               those
               thinge
               which
               are
               expresslie
               contayned
               in
               Scripture
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               say
               there
               must
               necessarilie
               be
               a
               more
               vniuersal
               rule
               of
               saith
               thē
               the
               expresse
               Scriptures
               ,
               by
               which
               rule
               we
               receiue
               and
               beleeue
               the
               Scriptures
               themselues
               to
               be
               such
               .
               And
               this
               is
               true
               by
               the
               iudgment
               of
               manie
               most
               iudicious
               protestants
               .
               Notwithstāndinge
               the
               Manuall
               expresslie
               teacheth
               that
               all
               articles
               of
               saith
               are
               contained
               in
               scriptures
               ,
               so
               fair
               as
               they
               testifie
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               and
               veritie
               of
               traditions
               .
               In
               which
               sence
               the
               scriptures
               may
               trulie
               be
               sayde
               to
               be
               a
               totall
               rule
               of
               our
               faith
               .
            
             
               Where
               you
               say
               that
               others
               teache
               and
               I
               accorde
               ,
               that
               the
               least
               parte
               of
               the
               Gospell
               is
               come
               to
               vs
               by
               writinge
               :
               For
               my selfe
               I
               answere
               with
               as
               much
               modestie
               as
               I
               may
               ,
               that
               you
               sowlie
               belie
               me
               .
               For
               I
               neuer
               so
               much
               as
               dreamed
               anie
               such
               thinge
               .
               If
               you
               groonde
               this
               ficton
               vppon
               that
               which
               I
               say
               ,
               
                 I
                 here
                 must
              
               
               
                 needes
                 be
                 a
                 more
                 vniuersall
                 rule
                 of
                 faith
                 then
                 the
                 scriptures
                 ,
              
               vnderstandinge
               me
               that
               moe
               thinges
               in
               number
               are
               taught
               vs
               by
               tradition
               alone
               ,
               then
               by
               the
               written
               worde
               ,
               (
               which
               interpretation
               you
               seeme
               to
               make
               of
               my
               wordes
               )
               I
               cannot
               trulie
               blame
               my
               manner
               of
               speach
               ,
               but
               either
               your
               dull
               or
               captious
               vnderstandinge
               ;
               my
               wordes
               are
               plaine
               ,
               that
               because
               we
               beleeue
               some
               thinges
               without
               expresse
               scripture
               ,
               as
               that
               there
               is
               a
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               and
               that
               it
               is
               contayned
               in
               these
               and
               these
               bookes
               ,
               which
               is
               no
               where
               expressed
               in
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               there
               must
               necessarilie
               be
               some
               other
               rule
               more
               vniuersall
               ,
               that
               is
               ,
               which
               teacheth
               some
               thinges
               besides
               that
               which
               is
               directlie
               expressed
               in
               the
               holy
               scripture
               .
            
             
             
               You
               cite
               in
               the
               margent
               Hosius
               whom
               it
               seemeth
               you
               vnderstande
               in
               the
               same
               manner
               (
               I
               say
               it
               seemeth
               ,
               for
               whether
               it
               be
               for
               negligence
               or
               fraude
               ,
               you
               make
               no
               reference
               for
               what
               purpose
               you
               cite
               him
               ,
               neither
               doe
               you
               putt
               downe
               his
               wordes
               ,
               for
               so
               might
               you
               haue
               been
               taken
               trippinge
               )
               but
               I
               finde
               nothinge
               in
               him
               soundinge
               to
               this
               purpose
               .
               Hee
               hath
               this
               indeede
               ,
               that
               the
               scripture
               commaundinge
               vs
               to
               heare
               our
               pastonrs
               with
               whome
               Christe
               promised
               to
               be
               alwayes
               vntill
               the
               end
               of
               the
               worlde
               ;
               it
               is
               founde
               true
               that
               S.
               Hierome
               saith
               ,
               that
               the
               scriptures
               containe
               all
               thinges
               .
            
             
               Our
               diuines
               you
               say
               are
               bound
               in
               conscience
               to
               deliuer
               vnto
               you
               a
               catologue
               of
               our
               traditions
               ,
               seinge
               the
               Councell
               of
               Trent
               chargeth
               to
               geue
               equall
               credit
               to
               traditions
               and
               to
               holy
               Scripture
               .
               But
               you
               are
               fowly
               deceaued
               ;
               For
               our
               diuines
               are
               bounde
               to
               receiue
               those
               traditions
               which
               the
               churche
               deliuereth
               vnto
               them
               ,
               and
               to
               desend
               them
               against
               your
               Cauills
               ,
               and
               not
               prescribe
               vnto
               the
               churche
               what
               traditions
               shee
               shoulde
               receiue
               .
               This
               pride
               and
               arrogance
               pertaineth
               properlie
               to
               you
               Sectmaisters
               ,
               who
               preferr
               your
               owne
               priuate
               opinions
               before
               the
               iudgment
               of
               the
               whole
               churche
               ,
               which
               pride
               is
               the
               verie
               roote
               and
               cause
               of
               all
               heresie
               and
               errour
               that
               hath
               been
               in
               the
               worlde
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Neuertheles
             the
             moste
             of
             these
             positions
             here
             
             by
             you
             fathered
             on
             it
             (
             and
             I
             doubte
             not
             but
             you
             haue
             chosen
             the
             clearest
             )
             are
             confessed
             by
             your
             owne
             side
             not
             to
             be
             of
             its
             kindred
             ,
             but
             bred
             and
             beleeued
             onlie
             vppon
             tradition
             S.
             Peters
             beinge
             at
             Rome
             ,
             the
             Popes
             Supremacie
             and
             succession
             ,
             prayer
             to
             Saincts
             ,
             reliques
             ,
             images
             ,
             purgatorie
             ,
             seuen
             Sacraments
             ,
             Exorcismes
             ,
             exufflations
             ,
             &
             vnction
             in
             Baptisme
             ,
             reall
             presence
             ,
             transsubstantiation
             ,
             
             communion
             vnder
             one
             kinde
             ,
             sacrifice
             
             of
             Masse
             ,
             confirmation
             ,
             pennance
             ,
             orders
             ,
             extreame
             vnction
             ,
             matrimonie
             ,
             meritt
             of
             workes
             ,
             monkery
             ,
             with
             verie
             many
             more
             not
             expressed
             by
             you
             :
             so
             that
             when
             you
             and
             your
             sellowes
             bringes
             the
             scriptures
             to
             patronise
             these
             points
             ,
             you
             fairlie
             imitate
             the
             ancient
             heretickes
             ,
             who
             
             knowinge
             theire
             opinions
             to
             haue
             no
             communion
             with
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             yett
             alleage
             them
             to
             seduce
             the
             simple
             sort
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               are
               resolued
               I
               perceiue
               to
               be
               shameleslie
               impudent
               ;
               not
               blushinge
               to
               write
               that
               the
               moste
               of
               the
               points
               proued
               by
               me
               out
               of
               Scripture
               to
               be
               confessed
               by
               catholickes
               to
               be
               beleeued
               onlie
               vppon
               tradition
               ,
               and
               namelie
               all
               these
               sett
               downe
               in
               your
               wordes
               nowe
               related
               .
               Why
               doe
               you
               deale
               so
               vnderboarde
               as
               not
               to
               sett
               downe
               the
               Authors
               wordes
               whose
               names
               you
               putt
               in
               the
               margent
               ?
               you
               feare
               the
               tryall
               and
               therefore
               you
               walke
               in
               obscuritie
               .
               So
               manie
               falsities
               as
               you
               haue
               been
               taken
               with
               alreadie
               ,
               will
               make
               your
               reader
               warie
               enoughe
               to
               beleeue
               you
               noe
               further
               ,
               thē
               he
               seeth
               proofe
               of
               your
               sayinges
               .
               And
               whether
               you
               and
               yours
               ,
               or
               limitate
               more
               fairlie
               the
               ancient
               heretikes
               in
               alleaginge
               Scriptures
               for
               theire
               errours
               to
               deceaue
               the
               simple
               ,
               it
               will
               appeare
               by
               the
               progresse
               of
               our
               dispute
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             And
             how
             can
             you
             persuade
             the
             worlde
             that
             
             you
             purpose
             in
             deede
             to
             make
             the
             scriptures
             the
             grounde
             of
             your
             faith
             ,
             which
             are
             branded
             by
             your
             men
             to
             be
             inconstant
             ,
             and
             mutable
             ,
             fitted
             to
             the
             tyme
             ,
             and
             variablie
             vnderstoode
             ,
             to
             be
             insufficient
             and
             imperfect
             ,
             and
             explicated
             by
             a
             councell
             ,
             they
             firmelie
             prooue
             that
             which
             before
             
             they
             did
             not
             ,
             that
             heerein
             they
             are
             ouertopped
             by
             
             traditions
             ,
             for
             that
             without
             traditions
             they
             firmelie
             subsist
             not
             ,
             but
             without
             them
             traditions
             haue
             theire
             strenghte
             ,
             that
             the
             authoritie
             they
             haue
             towardes
             men
             is
             deriued
             from
             the
             churche
             ,
             and
             without
             it
             they
             haue
             litle
             force
             ,
             which
             churche
             with
             you
             is
             the
             Pope
             .
             Therefore
             for
             all
             your
             plea
             of
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             the
             Pope
             is
             the
             Atlas
             of
             your
             faith
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               That
               the
               scriptures
               are
               branded
               by
               anie
               of
               our
               mē
               to
               be
               inconstant
               ,
               mutable
               or
               fitted
               to
               the
               tyme
               ,
               is
               your
               owne
               slaunderous
               fiction
               ;
               or
               if
               it
               be
               not
               ,
               bring
               foorth
               your
               author
               and
               iustifie
               your selfe
               of
               so
               shameles
               a
               slaunder
               .
               That
               the
               scriptures
               may
               be
               diuersslie
               vnderstoode
               if
               you
               denie
               ,
               who
               is
               he
               of
               all
               your
               fellowes
               that
               wil
               beleeue
               you
               ?
               Surelie
               noe
               man
               that
               is
               awake
               ,
               but
               will
               thinke
               rather
               that
               you
               dreamed
               when
               you
               wrote
               this
               ,
               then
               he
               will
               thinke
               that
               the
               scriptures
               cannot
               be
               vnderstoode
               diuerslie
               ,
               which
               beinge
               so
               euident
               by
               daylie
               experience
               ,
               that
               noe
               man
               in
               his
               senses
               can
               denie
               it
               ,
               who
               seeth
               not
               the
               necessitie
               of
               some
               iudgment
               to
               determine
               which
               is
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               thereof
               .
               But
               that
               is
               the
               thinge
               you
               feare
               ,
               which
               rather
               then
               you
               will
               graunt
               ,
               you
               say
               that
               which
               a
               drunken
               man
               woulde
               be
               ashamed
               to
               haue
               sayde
               .
            
             
               The
               insufficiencie
               of
               the
               scriptures
               to
               instruct
               the
               churche
               in
               al
               matters
               of
               faith
               ,
               stādeth
               right
               wel
               with
               theire
               sufficiencie
               to
               prooue
               those
               thinges
               which
               are
               contained
               expreslie
               in
               them
               ;
               And
               therefore
               your
               argument
               whereby
               you
               would
               conclude
               against
               me
               ,
               the
               insufficiencie
               of
               scriptures
               to
               prooue
               anie
               article
               of
               faith
               ,
               because
               I
               say
               it
               is
               not
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               all
               the
               Articles
               of
               faith
               is
               more
               then
               childish
               ,
               and
               like
               vnto
               this
               .
               The
               first
               chapter
               of
               Genesis
               is
               no●
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               all
               the
               articles
               of
               christian
               faith
               ,
               
               therefore
               it
               is
               not
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               that
               God
               created
               the
               worlde
               .
               Woulde
               you
               (
               I
               pray
               you
               )
               admitte
               this
               argument
               as
               good
               ?
               I
               thinke
               not
               ,
               thoughe
               I
               knowe
               you
               impertinent
               enoughe
               ;
               why
               therefore
               doe
               you
               goe
               aboute
               to
               conclude
               your
               purpose
               against
               your
               aduersarie
               by
               the
               like
               argument
               ?
               leaue
               for
               shame
               to
               make
               your selfe
               so
               ridiculous
               ,
               seinge
               you
               write
               your selfe
               so
               doctor
               of
               Diuinitie
               .
               As
               for
               the
               worde
               imperfect
               ,
               I
               doe
               not
               knowe
               anie
               catholicke
               that
               doth
               vse
               it
               ;
               yett
               if
               it
               haue
               no
               other
               meaninge
               then
               insufficient
               to
               prooue
               all
               the
               articles
               of
               faith
               ,
               it
               is
               not
               reprehensible
               &
               helpeth
               your
               cause
               nothinge
               at
               all
               .
               The
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               councell
               ,
               and
               tradition
               in
               explication
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               is
               as
               friuolusly
               alleaged
               by
               you
               ,
               to
               impugne
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               same
               scriptures
               ,
               as
               if
               you
               shoulde
               say
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               iudges
               or
               customes
               in
               England
               or
               anie
               other
               kingdome
               ,
               to
               interprete
               or
               expounde
               the
               Lawe
               doth
               violate
               and
               impeach
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               Lawe
               .
               Your
               impertinencies
               are
               without
               measure
               or
               number
               .
            
             
               The
               Pope
               is
               not
               the
               Churche
               as
               you
               more
               then
               childishlie
               terme
               him
               ,
               but
               he
               is
               the
               heade
               &
               cheefe
               pastour
               of
               Gods
               Churche
               militant
               here
               vppon
               earth
               ,
               malgree
               all
               your
               spite
               and
               malice
               ,
               and
               therefore
               are
               you
               bound
               to
               heare
               and
               obey
               him
               ,
               if
               you
               woulde
               heare
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               ,
               who
               hath
               expreslie
               sayde
               of
               all
               the
               pastours
               of
               his
               churche
               ,
               
                 he
                 that
                 heareth
              
               
               
                 you
                 ,
                 heareth
                 me
              
               :
               but
               because
               you
               depise
               to
               heare
               our
               Sauiour
               Christe
               ,
               who
               addeth
               in
               the
               same
               place
               ,
               
                 he
                 that
                 despiseth
                 you
                 ,
                 despiseth
                 me
                 ,
              
               therefore
               you
               scorne
               to
               heare
               your
               pastour
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             .
             SECT
             .
             II.
             
          
        
         
           But
           before
           thou
           proceede
           to
           viewe
           the
           thinge
           it selfe
           ,
           I
           desire
           thee
           to
           consider
           wel
           these
           fewe
           points
           followinge
           .
           First
           that
           no
           proofe
           of
           anie
           point
           of
           christian
           beliefe
           
           can
           be
           so
           direct
           and
           full
           out
           of
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           that
           may
           not
           be
           deluded
           by
           false
           interpretation
           .
           For
           the
           damned
           Arrians
           ,
           and
           most
           other
           heretikes
           coulde
           interprete
           all
           places
           of
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           brought
           by
           the
           catholikes
           against
           theire
           heresie
           ,
           in
           such
           sence
           ,
           as
           beinge
           so
           vnderstoode
           ,
           they
           make
           nothinge
           against
           it
           :
           yea
           that
           noe
           lesse
           seelie
           then
           peruerse
           heretike
           Legate
           (
           burned
           in
           Smithfielde
           not
           longe
           since
           for
           Arrianisme
           )
           coulde
           not
           be
           conuinced
           of
           heresie
           by
           onlie
           scripture
           .
           Such
           proofes
           therefore
           of
           catholicke
           doctrine
           as
           cannot
           be
           deluded
           by
           anie
           interpretation
           ,
           are
           not
           to
           be
           expected
           out
           of
           holie
           scripture
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             An
             vnskilfull
             pilot
             that
             maketh
             shipwracke
             ere
             he
             getts
             out
             of
             the
             hauen
             .
             You
             will
             prooue
             your
             faith
             out
             of
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             presentlie
             you
             will
             tell
             vs
             that
             your
             prooses
             are
             not
             so
             direct
             and
             full
             ,
             but
             your
             aduersaries
             may
             delude
             them
             ,
             and
             that
             none
             such
             must
             be
             expected
             from
             you
             :
             much
             like
             the
             soolishe
             or
             at
             our
             who
             vsuallie
             propoundinge
             three
             or
             fower
             points
             to
             speake
             of
             ,
             euer
             forgott
             one
             of
             them
             ,
             and
             then
             charged
             his
             aduersaries
             that
             they
             had
             bewitched
             him
             .
             So
             the
             weakenes
             of
             your
             arguments
             ,
             is
             imputed
             to
             the
             delusion
             of
             your
             opposites
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               A
               blinde
               aduersarie
               that
               doth
               not
               see
               what
               he
               hath
               to
               impugne
               .
               I
               proposed
               in
               my
               Manuall
               to
               shewe
               the
               catholicke
               doctrine
               to
               haue
               true
               grounde
               in
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               this
               Parallelist
               woulde
               haue
               such
               conuinceinge
               
               testimonies
               ,
               as
               may
               not
               be
               deluded
               by
               anie
               false
               interpretation
               :
               we
               shall
               belike
               see
               that
               he
               will
               play
               the
               man
               egregiouslie
               when
               it
               shall
               come
               to
               his
               turne
               ,
               to
               prooue
               his
               owne
               doctrine
               ,
               and
               will
               bringe
               such
               testimonies
               for
               himselfe
               as
               he
               requireth
               of
               me
               ,
               In
               the
               meane
               tyme
               lett
               vs
               heare
               the
               rest
               of
               his
               learned
               discourse
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             to
             your
             bold
             and
             rusticke
             assertion
             ,
             that
             noe
             articles
             of
             faith
             are
             so
             fullie
             prooued
             out
             of
             the
             scripture
             ;
             but
             may
             be
             deluded
             by
             false
             interpretation
             ,
             the
             Fathers
             shall
             answere
             ,
             nothinge
             can
             delude
             them
             that
             search
             the
             scripture
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Which
               of
               the
               fathers
               say
               this
               ?
               why
               doe
               you
               not
               name
               them
               ?
               you
               putt
               in
               the
               margent
               Theophilact
               and
               Chrisostome
               ,
               but
               not
               as
               authors
               of
               this
               your
               senceles
               assertion
               ,
               
                 that
                 none
                 canne
                 be
                 deluded
                 that
                 search
                 the
                 scriptures
                 .
              
               but
               you
               geue
               a
               reason
               thereof
               out
               of
               the
               fathers
               ,
               let
               vs
               heare
               it
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               For
               they
               (
               the
               scriptures
               )
               are
               the
               candle
               whereby
            
             
             
               the
               theese
               is
               espied
               .
               Chrisostome
               saith
               that
               Manichees
               and
               all
               heretickes
               deceiue
               the
               simple
               ;
               if
               we
               haue
               the
               sences
               of
               our
               mindes
               exercised
               to
            
             
             
               discerne
               good
               and
               euill
               ,
               we
               may
               be
               able
               to
               escape
               them
               ,
               But
               howe
               may
               our
               sences
               become
               practised
               ?
               by
               the
               vse
               of
               the
               scriptures
               and
               often
               readinge
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               all
               this
               to
               prooue
               that
               anie
               testimonie
               of
               scripture
               may
               not
               be
               deluded
               by
               a
               false
               interpretatiō
               ?
               that
               is
               ,
               that
               a
               peeuishe
               or
               a
               peruerse
               aduersarie
               ,
               cannot
               vnderstande
               or
               interprete
               it
               otherwise
               then
               it
               is
               meant
               .
               These
               fathers
               sayinges
               (
               be
               they
               trulie
               related
               by
               you
               or
               noe
               ,
               which
               I
               list
               not
               nowe
               examine
               )
               haue
               this
               manifest
               sence
               ,
               that
               a
               catholicke
               man
               ,
               conuersant
               
               in
               scriptures
               ,
               who
               vnderstandeth
               them
               in
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               cannot
               be
               deceiued
               by
               heretickes
               ,
               but
               espieth
               quicklie
               their
               theeuish
               driftes
               ,
               which
               is
               true
               ,
               but
               farr
               ▪
               frō
               that
               which
               you
               shoulde
               prooue
               :
               to
               witt
               that
               noe
               hereticke
               can
               so
               interprete
               the
               testimonie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               but
               that
               he
               must
               necessarilie
               remaine
               conuinced
               of
               his
               heresie
               by
               them
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               S.
               August
               auoucheth
               that
               all
               articles
               of
               faith
            
             
             
               are
               plainlie
               sett
               downe
               in
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               that
               so
               euidentlie
               that
               diuers
               of
               them
               neede
               noe
               interpretation
               att
               all
               :
               as
               that
               Christ
               must
               suffer
               and
               rise
               againe
               the
               third
               day
               ,
               and
               that
               repentance
               and
               remission
               of
               sinnes
               must
               be
               preached
               in
               his
               name
               in
               all
               nations
               begininge
               at
               Hierusalem
               as
               it
               needeth
               noe
               interpreter
               ;
               this
               gospell
               of
               the
               kingdome
               shall
               be
               preached
               in
               all
               the
               worlde
               and
               then
               shall
               be
               the
               end
               as
               it
               needeth
               noe
               interpreter
               ;
               yee
               shall
               be
               my
               witnesses
               in
               Hierusalem
               and
               in
               all
               Iudea
               &
               Samaria
               and
               the
               whole
               earth
               as
               it
               needeth
               noe
               interpretour
               ;
               suffer
               both
               to
               growe
               vntill
               the
               haruest
               :
               and
               when
               it
               needeth
               an
               interpretour
               the
               Lorde
               himselfe
               did
               interprete
               it
               ,
               whome
               no
               man
               dare
               contradict
               .
               Your
               owne
            
             
             
               Stapleton
               affirmeth
               the
               Popes
               Supremacie
               ,
               which
               is
               noe
               meane
               article
               of
               your
               faith
               to
               be
               fullie
               and
               abundantlie
               prooued
               out
               of
               the
               scripture
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Conclude
               out
               of
               all
               these
               wordes
               (
               be
               they
               trulie
               related
               or
               otherwise
               for
               it
               importeth
               not
               to
               examine
               them
               )
               that
               the
               testimonies
               of
               scripture
               for
               anie
               one
               pointe
               of
               faith
               ,
               may
               be
               so
               conueincinge
               that
               they
               cannott
               by
               anie
               false
               interpretation
               be
               deluded
               ,
               and
               you
               shall
               say
               something
               to
               the
               purpose
               ,
               otherwise
               all
               
               your
               wordes
               are
               but
               idle
               and
               impertinent
               bablinge
               not
               worthe
               the
               readinge
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             lett
             it
             be
             graunted
             that
             the
             scriptures
             may
             be
             thus
             deluded
             as
             you
             woulde
             haue
             them
             ,
             it
             neither
             helpeth
             you
             nor
             hurteth
             me
             .
             Sith
             whatsoeuer
             you
             adde
             to
             bringe
             fulnes
             vnto
             them
             ,
             whether
             traditions
             or
             councells
             ,
             is
             equallie
             subiect
             ,
             if
             not
             more
             to
             delusion
             then
             the
             written
             worde
             of
             God.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               woulde
               you
               wist
               that
               I
               disdaine
               to
               take
               anie
               thinge
               of
               guyfte
               or
               graunt
               of
               you
               ;
               that
               pertayneth
               to
               the
               defence
               of
               the
               catholicke
               truth
               ;
               denie
               therefore
               hardelie
               that
               which
               you
               can
               without
               blushinge
               ,
               and
               graunt
               me
               no
               more
               then
               that
               I
               extort
               from
               you
               by
               force
               of
               argument
               ,
               and
               after
               good
               deliberation
               shape
               me
               answere
               to
               these
               demandes
               followinge
               .
               First
               is
               it
               not
               a
               cheefe
               article
               of
               Christiā
               beleefe
               that
               the
               sonne
               of
               God
               is
               of
               equall
               or
               one
               substance
               and
               glorie
               with
               his
               father
               ?
               and
               secondlie
               is
               not
               this
               article
               as
               clearlie
               and
               as
               often
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               scripture
               ,
               as
               anie
               other
               articles
               of
               our
               beliefe
               ?
               And
               thirdlie
               did
               not
               the
               Arrians
               delude
               by
               false
               interpretation
               all
               the
               proofes
               of
               the
               sayde
               article
               ,
               so
               that
               they
               remained
               not
               conuinced
               by
               anie
               of
               them
               ,
               nor
               all
               of
               them
               together
               ?
               which
               of
               all
               these
               three
               propositions
               will
               you
               denie
               ?
               you
               will
               not
               as
               I
               suppose
               finde
               anie
               probable
               ground
               to
               denie
               anie
               of
               them
               .
               And
               yett
               if
               you
               graunt
               them
               all
               (
               as
               they
               are
               all
               most
               manifestlie
               true
               )
               that
               is
               clearlie
               concluded
               which
               I
               affirme
               ,
               and
               you
               denie
               ;
               to
               witt
               that
               noe
               testimonie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               can
               be
               so
               direct
               ,
               and
               conuincinge
               ,
               but
               that
               it
               may
               be
               eluded
               by
               false
               interpretation
               .
               You
               say
               be
               it
               so
               ,
               what
               doth
               this
               either
               helpe
               me
               or
               hurte
               you
               .
               But
               you
               are
               verie
               shorte
               sighted
               or
               rather
               starke
               blinde
               ,
               if
               you
               see
               not
               this
               ,
               For
               it
               helpeth
               me
               in
               that
               it
               deliuereth
               me
               of
               
               the
               charge
               or
               obligation
               to
               bringe
               such
               testimonie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               in
               proofe
               of
               the
               article
               of
               our
               catholicke
               beleefe
               ,
               as
               cannot
               by
               anie
               tergiuersation
               or
               false
               interpretatiō
               be
               miscōstrued
               or
               misunderstoode
               by
               you
               ,
               which
               you
               would
               seeme
               to
               tye
               me
               vnto
               ,
               it
               hurteth
               you
               ,
               because
               it
               euidentlie
               sheweth
               that
               the
               sole
               scriptures
               are
               not
               sufficiēt
               to
               conuince
               anie
               wilfull
               or
               obstinate
               hereticke
               in
               anie
               article
               of
               faith
               ,
               as
               you
               affirme
               it
               to
               be
               .
            
             
               The
               reason
               that
               you
               alleage
               why
               it
               shoulde
               not
               helpe
               me
               ,
               nor
               hurte
               you
               ,
               
                 that
                 all
                 criptures
                 may
                 be
                 mis-interpreted
                 ,
              
               is
               altogether
               misapplyed
               ,
               prooueinge
               not
               that
               for
               which
               it
               is
               alleaged
               ,
               but
               rather
               disprooeuinge
               the
               proposition
               it selfe
               .
               But
               this
               is
               a
               small
               ouersight
               in
               your
               discourse
               ,
               you
               say
               therefore
               ;
               
                 that
                 whatsoeuer
                 is
                 added
                 to
                 the
                 scriptures
                 to
                 interprete
                 them
                 ,
                 whether
                 traditions
                 or
                 counsells
                 ,
                 is
                 equallie
                 ,
                 if
                 not
                 more
                 subiect
                 to
                 delusion
                 :
              
               whereunto
               I
               answere
               .
               First
               that
               neither
               counsells
               nor
               traditions
               ,
               are
               so
               subiect
               to
               misinterpretatiō
               as
               the
               scriptures
               are
               ;
               And
               the
               reason
               is
               ,
               because
               they
               expresse
               more
               particularlie
               theire
               owne
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               then
               the
               scriptures
               ordinarilie
               doe
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               leaue
               not
               so
               much
               libertie
               of
               misinterpretatiō
               as
               they
               doe
               .
               Secōdlie
               I
               answere
               that
               whēsoeuer
               the
               testimonie
               of
               councells
               or
               traditions
               are
               drawne
               into
               doubte
               ,
               and
               difficultie
               as
               often
               they
               are
               ;
               (
               heretickes
               seruinge
               themselues
               of
               them
               ,
               as
               they
               doe
               of
               the
               scriptures
               )
               they
               are
               to
               be
               vnderstoode
               accordinge
               to
               the
               iudgment
               of
               the
               present
               churche
               ,
               which
               as
               a
               liuelie
               and
               liuinge
               iudge
               and
               interpreter
               ,
               hath
               power
               to
               interprete
               aswell
               the
               coūsells
               and
               traditions
               when
               there
               is
               doubte
               of
               them
               ,
               as
               it
               hath
               to
               interprete
               the
               scripture
               ;
               which
               beeinge
               added
               they
               are
               not
               subiect
               to
               anie
               farther
               doubte
               or
               delusion
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             
          
           
             Concerninge
             Tradition
             ,
             Eusebius
             will
             informe
             you
             ,
             that
             in
             the
             Cittie
             of
             Rome
             ,
             the
             rule
             of
             Ecclesiasticall
             
             Tradition
             ,
             was
             vexed
             with
             diuers
             nouelties
             :
             and
             as
             for
             councells
             howe
             shamefullie
             your
             Popes
             woulde
             haue
             corrupted
             that
             of
             Nice
             ,
             the
             fathers
             of
             the
             first
             councell
             of
             Carthage
             ,
             haue
             formerlie
             manifested
             vnto
             the
             worlde
             ,
             and
             howe
             vainlie
             at
             this
             day
             ,
             your
             diuines
             delude
             the
             sixt
             Canon
             of
             the
             same
             councell
             ,
             purposely
             made
             to
             geue
             equall
             honour
             ,
             vnto
             the
             Patriarche
             ,
             to
             patronize
             your
             Popes
             Monarchie
             ,
             euerie
             bleare
             eie
             doth
             easilie
             perceiue
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               intention
               by
               inculcatinge
               these
               ould
               and
               ouerworne
               obiections
               ,
               I
               meane
               these
               of
               councells
               ,
               haue
               been
               answered
               an
               hundred
               tymes
               ,
               being
               onlie
               to
               deturne
               your
               reader
               from
               the
               subiect
               in
               hand
               ,
               and
               to
               drawe
               your
               aduersarie
               into
               like
               confusion
               of
               matters
               with
               you
               ,
               I
               will
               passe
               ouer
               those
               wordes
               of
               yours
               ,
               expectinge
               your
               confutation
               of
               the
               answeres
               alreadie
               to
               these
               same
               obiections
               ,
               before
               I
               will
               trouble
               my selfe
               to
               answere
               them
               againe
               ,
               before
               the
               first
               answeres
               be
               confuted
               by
               you
               .
               That
               which
               Eusebius
               saith
               of
               vexinge
               traditions
               is
               true
               ;
               marry
               it
               was
               by
               such
               as
               your selfe
               and
               your
               fellowe
               hetetikes
               ,
               whose
               endeuours
               were
               frustrated
               by
               the
               catholike
               pastours
               :
               see
               him
               reader
               and
               marueil
               at
               Mr.
               Pilkintons
               witt
               in
               citing
               him
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Nowe
             when
             you
             cannot
             fullie
             prooue
             your
             faith
             out
             of
             scriptures
             ,
             you
             fall
             presentlie
             to
             wounde
             them
             with
             your
             slaunderous
             accusation
             ,
             that
             they
             are
             not
             able
             to
             conuince
             heretickes
             ,
             noe
             not
             such
             seelie
             ones
             as
             Legat
             ,
             not
             perceuinge
             how
             euenlie
             you
             iumpe
             with
             ould
             heretikes
             ,
             who
             whē
             they
             are
             conuinced
             by
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             fall
             to
             rayle
             on
             them
             as
             thoughe
             they
             were
             not
             right
             ,
             nor
             
             sufficientlie
             authorized
             ,
             but
             various
             and
             not
             full
             to
             finde
             the
             truth
             by
             them
             without
             tradition
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Why
               doe
               you
               not
               I
               pray
               your
               answere
               the
               instance
               made
               in
               Legat
               ?
               ●
               knowe
               well
               the
               reason
               ;
               you
               can
               as
               well
               answere
               it
               ,
               as
               you
               can
               beate
               downe
               Paules
               steeple
               with
               your
               fiste
               .
               You
               call
               it
               in
               this
               same
               section
               ,
               a
               sheepishe
               obiection
               ,
               but
               that
               is
               onlie
               a
               caluishe
               solution
               .
               And
               that
               heretikes
               cannott
               be
               conuinced
               out
               of
               scripture
               onlie
               ,
               hearken
               I
               pray
               you
               to
               aunciēt
               Tertullian
               who
               was
               better
               conuersant
               in
               these
               conflictes
               then
               either
               of
               vs
               ,
               yea
               then
               both
               of
               vs
               putt
               together
               ,
               thus
               he
               writeth
               .
               
                 The
                 conflict
                 with
                 the
                 scriptures
                 profiteth
                 nothinge
                 but
                 to
                 turne
                 either
                 the
                 stomacke
                 or
                 the
                 braine
                 .
              
               For
               which
               he
               geueth
               this
               reason
               .
            
             
               
                 This
                 herefie
                 receiueth
                 not
                 certaine
                 scriptures
              
               (
               as
               the
               
               protestants
               for
               examples
               )
               
                 and
                 if
                 it
                 receiue
                 anie
                 ,
                 it
                 araweth
                 them
                 to
                 her
                 purpose
                 by
                 additions
                 and
                 detractions
                 .
                 And
                 if
                 it
                 receiue
                 the
                 whole
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 it
                 depraueth
                 them
                 by
                 diuers
                 expositions
                 .
                 Whereas
                 the
                 adulterous
                 sence
                 ,
                 doth
                 no
                 lesse
                 destroy
                 the
                 truth
                 then
                 doth
                 the
                 corrupted
                 letter
                 .
                 What
                 wilt
                 thou
                 gaine
                 then
                 that
                 arte
                 cunninge
                 in
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 when
                 that
                 which
                 thou
                 defendest
                 is
                 denyed
                 ,
                 and
                 that
                 which
                 thou
                 denyest
                 is
                 defended
                 ?
                 Thou
                 shalt
                 indeede
                 loose
                 nothinge
                 but
                 thy
                 voyce
                 with
                 contēdinge
                 ,
                 nor
                 shalt
                 thou
                 gayne
                 anie
                 thinge
                 but
                 choler
                 ,
                 hearinge
                 blasphemies
                 .
                 The
                 heretikes
                 will
                 say
                 that
                 we
                 adulterate
                 the
                 scripture
                 and
                 bringe
                 lyinge
                 expositions
                 ,
                 and
                 that
                 they
                 defende
                 the
                 truth
                 ;
                 Therefore
                 must
                 not
                 appeale
                 be
                 made
                 to
                 the
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 nor
                 must
                 the
                 conflict
                 be
                 in
                 them
                 ,
                 by
                 which
                 the
                 victorie
                 is
                 either
                 vncertayne
                 ,
                 or
                 little
                 certaine
                 ,
                 or
                 none
                 att
                 all
                 .
              
               But
               lett
               vs
               nowe
               goe
               forwarde
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             lett
             this
             be
             the
             first
             issue
             betwixt
             you
             and
             me
             ,
             whether
             scriptures
             onlie
             will
             fullie
             conuince
             heretikes
             ,
             wherein
             the
             negatiue
             ,
             is
             yours
             ,
             
             the
             affirmatiue
             mine
             ,
             and
             thus
             I
             double
             it
             out
             of
             the
             worde
             of
             God.
             That
             which
             doth
             perfect
             the
             man
             of
             God
             to
             euerie
             good
             worke
             ,
             enableth
             him
             fullie
             to
             conuince
             heretikes
             :
             for
             this
             is
             one
             mayne
             dutie
             of
             his
             callinge
             ,
             to
             conuince
             contradictours
             .
             But
             the
             scriptures
             doe
             perfect
             the
             man
             of
             God
             to
             euerie
             good
             worke
             ,
             and
             particularlie
             S.
             Paule
             expresseth
             conuiction
             ,
             therefore
             they
             teach
             him
             fullie
             to
             conuince
             heretickes
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               verie
               willinglie
               accept
               of
               your
               chalenge
               and
               am
               content
               to
               ioyne
               issue
               with
               you
               in
               this
               point
               ,
               desiringe
               no
               other
               iudge
               or
               vmpire
               of
               the
               victorie
               then
               your
               owne
               patron
               of
               Canterburie
               .
               To
               your
               double
               therefore
               out
               of
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               ,
               I
               answere
               ,
               that
               the
               minor
               or
               seconde
               proposition
               of
               your
               argument
               is
               not
               out
               of
               scripture
               ,
               nor
               in
               it selfe
               true
               .
               For
               the
               place
               of
               scripture
               which
               you
               ayme
               at
               is
               this
               .
               
                 All
                 scripture
              
               
               
                 inspired
                 by
                 God
                 i●
                 profitable
                 to
                 teache
                 ,
                 to
                 argue
                 ,
                 to
                 correct
                 ,
                 to
                 instruct
                 ,
                 in
                 iustice
                 ,
                 that
                 the
                 man
                 of
                 God
                 may
                 be
                 perfect
                 ,
                 instructed
                 to
                 euerie
                 good
                 worke
                 .
              
               Out
               of
               which
               place
               if
               you
               woulde
               conclude
               anie
               thinge
               by
               lawfull
               argument
               ,
               you
               shoulde
               argue
               thus
               .
               
                 That
                 which
                 is
                 profitable
                 to
                 teach
                 ,
                 to
                 argue
                 ,
                 to
                 correct
                 and
                 instruct
                 in
                 iustice
                 ,
                 that
                 the
                 man
                 of
                 God
                 may
                 be
                 perfect
                 ,
                 instructed
                 in
                 euerie
                 good
                 worke
                 ,
                 is
                 sufficient
                 so
                 fullie
                 to
                 conuince
                 heretikes
                 of
                 theire
                 errour
                 ,
                 that
                 they
                 cannot
                 delude
                 it
                 by
                 false
                 interpretation
                 .
                 But
                 all
                 scripture
                 inspired
                 by
                 God
                 is
                 such
                 ;
                 therefore
                 all
                 scripture
                 inspired
                 by
                 God
                 is
                 sufficient
                 so
                 fullie
                 to
                 conuince
                 heretikes
                 ,
                 that
                 they
                 cannot
                 delude
                 it
                 by
                 false
                 interpretation
                 .
              
               The
               conclusion
               of
               which
               argument
               is
               the
               issue
               betwixt
               you
               and
               me
               .
               The
               medium
               you
               vse
               to
               prooue
               it
               are
               the
               wordes
               of
               the
               Apostle
               ,
               which
               if
               you
               had
               putt
               downe
               simplie
               and
               whollie
               and
               not
               dubled
               (
               as
               you
               say
               )
               by
               curtayllinge
               them
               ,
               you
               would
               easilie
               haue
               seene
               (
               if
               you
               see
               anie
               thinge
               )
               that
               they
               are
               as
               farr
               from
               cōcludinge
               
               your
               affirmatiue
               ,
               as
               the
               argument
               followinge
               is
               from
               concludinge
               that
               which
               is
               put
               in
               the
               conclusion
               thereof
               .
               Marke
               it
               I
               pray
               you
               ,
               and
               learne
               to
               argue
               better
               ;
               especiallie
               when
               you
               dispute
               for
               the
               victorie
               in
               a
               matter
               of
               such
               moment
               as
               this
               is
               .
               That
               which
               is
               proffitable
               to
               nourishe
               ,
               to
               exhilarate
               ,
               and
               conforte
               or
               strengthen
               man
               ,
               that
               he
               may
               be
               able
               to
               exercise
               all
               man-like
               functions
               and
               actions
               ,
               is
               sufficient
               to
               defende
               him
               from
               his
               enemies
               ,
               and
               to
               vanquishe
               them
               .
               Butt
               al
               wines
               are
               such
               .
               Therfore
               al
               wines
               are
               sufficiēt
               to
               defende
               a
               mā
               frō
               his
               enimies
               ;
               &
               to
               vanquishe
               thē
               .
               By
               which
               argumēt
               ,
               which
               is
               the
               verie
               same
               in
               forme
               that
               yours
               shoulde
               be
               ,
               if
               you
               would
               haue
               formed
               it
               out
               of
               the
               Apostles
               wordes
               ,
               you
               see
               (
               if
               you
               onlie
               are
               not
               blinde
               )
               how
               ridiculouslie
               you
               double
               your
               affirmatiue
               out
               of
               gods
               worde
               .
               Besides
               your
               argument
               is
               for
               diuers
               other
               respects
               either
               foolishe
               ,
               or
               fraudubent
               .
               For
               S.
               Paule
               saith
               that
               all
               scripture
               ,
               that
               is
               euerie
               parte
               &
               parcell
               of
               scripture
               is
               profitable
               to
               teache
               &c
               :
               yet
               you
               will
               not
               I
               hope
               say
               that
               euerie
               parcell
               of
               scripture
               is
               sufficient
               to
               conuince
               heretikes
               .
               Agayne
               the
               Apostle
               speaketh
               manifestlie
               of
               such
               scriptures
               as
               Timothy
               had
               learned
               from
               his
               childehoode
               ,
               which
               without
               controuersie
               were
               onlie
               the
               scriptures
               of
               the
               old
               testament
               ,
               of
               which
               you
               will
               not
               affirme
               that
               they
               are
               sufficient
               to
               conuince
               all
               heretikes
               .
               And
               so
               you
               see
               the
               liuinge
               wherewith
               you
               woulde
               double
               your
               affirmatiue
               to
               be
               so
               poore
               stuffe
               ,
               that
               were
               your
               cloake
               doubled
               with
               no
               better
               lyninge
               ,
               you
               would
               feele
               the
               winter
               could
               ,
               noe
               lesse
               then
               if
               your
               cloake
               were
               simple
               :
               but
               lett
               vs
               see
               ,
               peraduenture
               you
               haue
               better
               stuffe
               behynde
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             That
             way
             which
             Christ
             and
             his
             Apostles
             tooke
             to
             conuince
             heretikes
             is
             a
             full
             and
             direct
             way
             :
             but
             they
             conuinced
             them
             by
             scripture
             only
             .
             The
             Saduces
             that
             were
             heretikes
             amongst
             the
             Iewes
             ,
             denyinge
             the
             resurrection
             ,
             werethus
             by
             Christ
             putt
             to
             silence
             ,
             so
             were
             the
             false
             Apostles
             that
             vrged
             
             Circumsion
             ,
             by
             the
             councell
             at
             Hierusalem
             ,
             and
             thus
             Apollo
             confuted
             the
             Iewes
             ,
             sheweinge
             by
             the
             scriptures
             that
             Iesus
             was
             Christe
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               These
               examples
               of
               Christe
               and
               the
               Apostles
               doe
               clearlie
               conuince
               your
               affirmatiue
               ,
               wherein
               is
               our
               issue
               ,
               to
               be
               false
               .
               For
               otherwise
               all
               these
               that
               hearde
               thē
               should
               haue
               been
               conuerted
               from
               theire
               errours
               ,
               which
               they
               were
               not
               .
               And
               assuredlie
               if
               you
               take
               those
               places
               of
               scripture
               vsed
               by
               our
               Sauiour
               Christe
               and
               the
               Apostles
               to
               be
               of
               themselues
               conuincinge
               ,
               abstractinge
               from
               the
               authoritie
               of
               those
               that
               vsed
               thē
               ,
               you
               will
               conuince
               your selfe
               to
               be
               a
               madde
               man
               and
               not
               a
               doctor
               of
               diuinitie
               .
               The
               way
               therfore
               that
               our
               Sauiour
               Christe
               and
               the
               Apostles
               then
               vsed
               ,
               and
               which
               all
               the
               Doctors
               of
               gods
               churche
               haue
               euer
               since
               exercised
               to
               conuince
               heretikes
               by
               scripture
               ,
               is
               doubtles
               most
               conuenient
               ,
               and
               good
               ,
               which
               is
               not
               in
               controuersie
               betweene
               you
               and
               me
               :
               but
               onlie
               whether
               it
               be
               such
               as
               by
               noe
               false
               interpretation
               it
               may
               be
               auoyded
               ,
               deluded
               or
               frustrated
               of
               the
               effect
               ,
               which
               these
               verie
               examples
               brought
               by
               you
               ,
               and
               the
               experience
               of
               all
               times
               doe
               demōstrate
               to
               be
               true
               against
               you
               .
               And
               this
               might
               fullie
               suffice
               for
               that
               which
               you
               add
               ,
               but
               least
               you
               may
               complaine
               of
               your
               wordes
               concealed
               I
               will
               sett
               them
               downe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Lastlie
             the
             fathers
             thus
             taught
             that
             heretickes
             might
             be
             conuinced
             solelie
             by
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             
             Take
             from
             the
             heretikes
             their
             heathenishe
             learninge
             that
             by
             scriptures
             onlie
             they
             must
             prooue
             theire
             opinions
             ,
             &
             they
             cannot
             stande
             saith
             Tertullian
             .
             See
             howe
             nere
             vnto
             danger
             they
             be
             that
             refuse
             to
             exercise
             themselues
             in
             scripture
             ,
             for
             of
             them
             onlie
             the
             iudgment
             of
             this
             triall
             must
             be
             knowne
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Howe
               impertinent
               alwayes
               you
               are
               ?
               you
               shoulde
               prooue
               that
               heretikes
               may
               be
               conuinced
               by
               scriptures
               onlie
               ;
               and
               you
               bringe
               Tertullian
               to
               prooue
               that
               heretikes
               cannot
               prooue
               theire
               errouis
               out
               of
               scriptures
               ;
               speakinge
               of
               one
               particular
               heresie
               against
               the
               resurrectio
               ,
               which
               article
               of
               the
               resurrectiō
               being
               not
               to
               be
               prooued
               by
               naturall
               discourse
               ,
               but
               out
               of
               scripture
               onlie
               ,
               therefore
               those
               heretickes
               that
               neglect
               to
               reade
               them
               were
               in
               daunger
               to
               continue
               in
               theire
               errour
               .
               But
               if
               you
               make
               anie
               esteeme
               of
               Tertullian
               his
               iudgment
               in
               this
               matter
               ,
               see
               his
               wordes
               cited
               a
               litle
               before
               ,
               and
               iudge
               your selfe
               whether
               he
               fauour
               your
               affirmatiue
               or
               my
               negatiue
               more
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Athanasins
             writinge
             to
             Serapion
             against
             th●se
             
             heretikes
             that
             taught
             the
             holy
             ghost
             to
             be
             a
             creature
             ,
             chargeth
             him
             to
             learne
             onlie
             these
             thinges
             that
             are
             in
             the
             scriptures
             .
             For
             the
             documents
             contayned
             therein
             aboute
             this
             pointe
             ,
             are
             of
             thēselues
             sufficient
             and
             doe
             satisfie
             .
             S.
             Aug
             :
             Chargeth
             
             the
             Donatists
             to
             prooue
             theire
             churche
             onlie
             by
             the
             canonicall
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             remouinge
             all
             other
             thinges
             ,
             to
             demonstrate
             theire
             churche
             ,
             if
             they
             were
             able
             ,
             not
             in
             the
             wordes
             and
             rumors
             of
             Affricanes
             ,
             not
             in
             the
             councelles
             of
             the
             Bishops
             ,
             not
             in
             the
             letters
             of
             anie
             disputers
             ,
             not
             in
             signes
             and
             lyinge
             miracles
             ,
             because
             we
             are
             forewarned
             &
             fore-armed
             against
             these
             thinges
             by
             the
             worde
             of
             God
             :
             but
             in
             the
             prescripte
             of
             the
             lawe
             ,
             the
             predictions
             of
             the
             prophetts
             ,
             in
             the
             songes
             of
             the
             psalmes
             ,
             in
             the
             voyce
             of
             the
             Shephearde
             himselfe
             ,
             in
             the
             Sermons
             and
             labours
             of
             the
             Euangelistes
             ,
             that
             is
             in
             all
             the
             canonicall
             authorities
             of
             the
             
             holy
             booke
             .
             Innocent
             .
             i.
             bishoppe
             of
             Rome
             saith
             ,
             
             that
             by
             the
             sole
             testimonie
             of
             holy
             scriptures
             the
             heresie
             of
             Pelagius
             might
             be
             refuted
             .
             The
             testimonie
             
             of
             the
             fathers
             are
             infinite
             in
             this
             kinde
             ,
             which
             to
             auoyde
             prolixitie
             I
             passe
             ouer
             ,
             and
             conclude
             with
             that
             charge
             of
             Constantine
             to
             the
             fathers
             of
             the
             Nicene
             councell
             ,
             where
             Arrianisine
             receiued
             its
             deathes
             wounde
             (
             to
             satisfie
             the
             sheepishe
             obiection
             of
             seelie
             Legat
             )
             the
             bookes
             of
             the
             Euangelists
             and
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             together
             with
             oracles
             of
             the
             auncient
             prophets
             doe
             plainlie
             teach
             vs
             ,
             what
             we
             are
             to
             thinke
             of
             diuine
             thinges
             ;
             or
             as
             Bellarmine
             readeth
             it
             of
             the
             nature
             of
             God.
             Therefore
             layinge
             a
             side
             all
             contention
             ,
             let
             vs
             out
             of
             the
             diuine
             inspired
             scriptures
             ,
             take
             the
             resolution
             of
             these
             thinges
             that
             are
             in
             question
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Manie
               wordes
               &
               nothinge
               to
               the
               purpose
               Which
               of
               all
               these
               testimonies
               (
               be
               they
               trulie
               related
               by
               you
               ,
               which
               I
               list
               not
               examine
               ,
               because
               they
               are
               nothinge
               to
               the
               purpose
               )
               or
               of
               those
               infinite
               others
               (
               which
               you
               more
               prudentlie
               omitte
               ,
               then
               you
               haue
               related
               these
               )
               say
               that
               the
               heretikes
               may
               be
               so
               conuinced
               by
               onlie
               scripture
               ,
               that
               they
               cannot
               delude
               them
               by
               anie
               false
               interpretation
               ,
               which
               is
               our
               issue
               as
               you
               knowe
               ?
               The
               charge
               of
               Constantine
               (
               as
               you
               ridiculouslie
               terme
               it
               )
               doth
               sufficientlie
               euict
               my
               cause
               against
               you
               ,
               so
               wiselie
               you
               pleade
               for
               your selfe
               ,
               and
               so
               solidelie
               you
               satisfie
               the
               obiection
               of
               seelie
               Legat
               (
               which
               you
               esteeminge
               sheepishe
               ,
               shewe
               your selfe
               to
               be
               more
               then
               a
               sheepe
               in
               not
               soluinge
               it
               for
               which
               of
               all
               the
               testimonies
               out
               of
               the
               bookes
               of
               the
               Euangelists
               ,
               and
               Apostles
               ,
               or
               the
               oracles
               of
               the
               auncient
               prophets
               ,
               did
               so
               conuince
               the
               Arriaus
               ,
               that
               they
               had
               not
               some
               
               answere
               for
               it
               ?
               not
               one
               surelie
               .
               Therefore
               all
               these
               wordes
               of
               yours
               containe
               nothinge
               but
               an
               argument
               of
               your
               wilfull
               obstinacie
               against
               an
               euident
               truth
               .
               And
               therefore
               to
               conclude
               my
               defence
               in
               this
               issue
               ,
               I
               will
               aske
               you
               whether
               you
               are
               conuinced
               of
               the
               real
               persence
               by
               these
               wordes
               ;
               
                 hoc
                 est
                 corpus
                 meum
              
               :
               or
               of
               
               the
               power
               to
               remitt
               sinnes
               ;
               by
               these
               :
               
                 quorum
                 remiseritis
                 ●e●cata
                 remittuntur
                 e●s
              
               ,
               or
               of
               the
               infallibilitie
               of
               the
               churche
               by
               these
               ;
               
                 quae
                 est
                 co●umna
                 &
                 firmamentum
              
               
               veritatis
               ;
               to
               omitte
               the
               rest
               :
               if
               you
               say
               you
               are
               not
               conuinced
               ,
               as
               by
               your
               profession
               I
               coniecture
               you
               will
               say
               ;
               then
               I
               will
               further
               aske
               you
               ,
               what
               more
               cleare
               testimonies
               of
               scripture
               you
               canne
               bringe
               for
               anie
               one
               article
               of
               our
               faith
               ?
               and
               because
               I
               knowe
               you
               cannot
               bringe
               anie
               more
               direct
               or
               pregnant
               ,
               I
               therefore
               chalenge
               &
               coniure
               you
               ,
               euen
               by
               the
               iudgment
               of
               your
               patron
               of
               Canterbury
               (
               whose
               arbitrement
               I
               doe
               not
               refuse
               in
               this
               cause
               )
               either
               to
               confesse
               your selfe
               conuinced
               in
               these
               points
               of
               Catholicke
               doctrine
               ,
               or
               to
               confesse
               that
               heretickes
               cannot
               be
               conuinced
               by
               onlie
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               so
               shall
               I
               gaine
               mine
               issue
               against
               you
               .
               Which
               beinge
               euicted
               ,
               the
               note
               of
               the
               Manual
               remaineth
               entire
               and
               vntouched
               ,
               notwithstandinge
               all
               your
               tedious
               and
               prolixe
               wranglinge
               against
               it
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTIO
             3.
             
          
        
         
           Secondlie
           that
           thoughe
           the
           protestants
           may
           alleage
           texts
           of
           holy
           scripture
           for
           the
           proofe
           of
           some
           poinctes
           of
           theire
           doctrine
           ,
           yett
           that
           alone
           is
           not
           sufficient
           to
           make
           it
           true
           ;
           both
           because
           the
           same
           poinctes
           are
           prooued
           false
           by
           other
           places
           of
           scripture
           ,
           and
           also
           for
           that
           all
           heretickes
           haue
           euer
           brought
           scripture
           for
           theire
           heresie
           ;
           and
           none
           more
           apparant
           or
           frequent
           then
           the
           damned
           and
           blasphemous
           Arians
           .
           To
           say
           
           nothinge
           of
           the
           diuell
           his
           citinge
           of
           scripture
           euen
           against
           our
           blessed
           Sauiour
           ;
           by
           al
           which
           it
           is
           more
           then
           euident
           ,
           that
           the
           sence
           of
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           besides
           the
           wordes
           is
           necessarilie
           required
           to
           make
           sufficient
           proofe
           of
           true
           doctrine
           :
           For
           which
           reason
           I
           often
           bringe
           the
           incorrupte
           testimonie
           of
           some
           holy
           father
           for
           the
           sence
           of
           the
           place
           alleaged
           by
           me
           ,
           who
           haueinge
           liued
           att
           least
           a
           thousande
           yeares
           before
           these
           controuersies
           began
           ,
           cannott
           be
           esteemed
           partiall
           one
           our
           side
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             We
             adore
             the
             fulnes
             of
             scripture
             and
             prooue
             from
             thence
             not
             some
             ,
             but
             euerie
             pointe
             of
             our
             doctrine
             (
             which
             you
             Iesuits
             neither
             canne
             doe
             ,
             nor
             professe
             to
             doe
             ,
             but
             the
             contrarie
             ,
             charginge
             them
             with
             insufficiencie
             and
             imperfection
             )
             which
             howe
             manfullie
             you
             can
             desprooue
             by
             other
             texts
             will
             appeare
             in
             the
             discourse
             ensuinge
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               As
               you
               are
               more
               redoun●
               in
               wordes
               in
               this
               section
               then
               in
               the
               precedent
               .
               so
               are
               you
               more
               impertinent
               .
               Your
               flant
               out
               of
               Tertullian
               shall
               be
               answered
               in
               the
               
               controuersie
               of
               scripture
               where
               you
               repeat
               it
               againe
               .
               And
               for
               your
               vaine
               and
               windie
               brag
               to
               prooue
               euerie
               point
               of
               your
               doctrine
               out
               of
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               I
               knowe
               alreadie
               howe
               it
               will
               be
               performed
               ;
               to
               witt
               by
               fillinge
               your
               margents
               with
               quotations
               of
               scripture
               ,
               to
               delude
               the
               ignorant
               ;
               which
               beinge
               examined
               and
               compared
               with
               the
               article
               to
               be
               prooued
               ,
               haue
               as
               much
               resemblāce
               with
               it
               as
               an
               aple
               with
               an
               oyster
               .
               The
               ministers
               of
               Fraunce
               beinge
               of
               late
               detected
               of
               this
               fraude
               before
               the
               kinge
               himselfe
               and
               prouoked
               by
               his
               preacher
               to
               iustifie
               theire
               citations
               of
               scripture
               
               quoted
               in
               the
               margent
               of
               the
               confession
               of
               theire
               faith
               ,
               thoughe
               they
               seemed
               to
               take
               haynouslie
               the
               accusation
               ,
               yett
               till
               this
               day
               haue
               they
               not
               iustified
               theire
               quotations
               ,
               nor
               euer
               will.
               Howe
               you
               will
               quitt
               your selfe
               in
               this
               point
               ,
               we
               shall
               see
               when
               we
               come
               vnto
               itt
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               In
               the
               meane
               while
               it
               is
               vntrue
               that
               all
               heretikes
               alleaged
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               they
               loue
               as
               wel
               as
               dogges
               doe
               whippes
               :
               but
               iust
               as
               you
               papists
            
             
             
               say
               there
               is
               more
               force
               in
               tradition
               then
               in
               the
               written
               worde
               ,
               for
               they
               are
               owles
               that
               cannot
               abide
               the
               light
               of
               the
               scripture
               ,
               they
               massacre
               them
               as
               Martian
               did
               ,
               that
               they
               may
               builde
               vppe
               theire
               owne
               matters
               ,
               they
               alleage
               Apostolicall
               traditions
               as
               Artemon
               did
               ,
               who
               saide
               that
               all
               the
               auncients
               ,
               yea
               the
               Apostells
               taught
               and
               saide
               like
               himselfe
               ,
               and
               laide
               handes
               on
               the
               scriptures
               irreligiouslie
               ,
               sayinge
               that
               he
               had
               reformed
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               affirme
               bouldlie
               but
               prooue
               nothinge
               ,
               a
               fowle
               faulte
               in
               a
               doctour
               .
               That
               all
               heretikes
               vniuersallie
               alleage
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               you
               say
               is
               moste
               vntrue
               ,
               heare
               the
               testimonie
               of
               one
               that
               is
               not
               partiall
               to
               either
               of
               vs
               ,
               and
               of
               more
               iudgment
               in
               this
               matter
               then
               vs
               both
               .
               I
               meane
               Vincentius
               Lirinensis
               of
               equall
               standinge
               with
               S.
               Aug.
               who
               writeth
               thus
               .
               
                 Some
                 will
              
               
               
                 peraduenture
                 demande
                 here
                 whether
                 heretikes
                 doe
                 vse
                 the
                 testimonies
                 of
                 scripture
                 ?
                 They
                 do●
                 trulie
                 and
                 that
                 vehementlie
                 For
                 you
                 shall
                 see
                 them
                 runne
                 thorough
                 all
                 the
                 bookes
                 of
                 holy
                 scripture
                 :
                 throughe
                 the
                 bookes
                 of
                 Moses
                 of
                 the
                 kinges
                 ,
                 of
                 the
                 psalmes
                 ,
                 of
                 the
                 Apostles
                 ,
                 Euangelists
                 ,
                 and
                 prophets
                 .
                 For
                 whether
                 they
                 speake
                 with
                 theire
                 owne
                 fellowes
                 or
                 with
                 other
                 ,
                 whether
                 priuatelie
                 or
                 publikelie
                 ,
                 whether
                 in
                 Sermons
                 or
                 in
                 bookes
                 ,
                 whether
                 in
                 banquetts
                 or
                 in
                 the
                 streetes
                 ,
                 they
                 neuer
                 vtter
              
               
               
                 anie
                 thinge
                 of
                 theire
                 owne
                 ,
                 but
                 they
                 will
                 seeme
                 to
                 shaddowe
                 it
                 with
                 the
                 wordes
                 of
                 scripture
                 .
                 Reade
                 the
                 workes
                 of
                 Paulus
                 Samosateuus
                 ,
                 of
                 Priscilian
                 ,
                 of
                 Eunomius
                 .
                 (
                 of
                 Luther
                 ,
                 Caluin
                 ,
                 Zuinglius
                 )
                 and
                 of
                 the
                 rest
                 of
                 the
                 plagues
                 ,
                 thou
                 shalt
                 finde
                 almost
                 an
                 infinite
                 heape
                 of
                 examples
                 ,
                 noe
                 page
                 that
                 is
                 not
                 painted
                 with
                 the
                 passages
                 '
                 of
                 the
                 newe
                 testament
                 .
              
               Nowe
               iudge
               your selfe
               ,
               whether
               your
               sayinge
               or
               myne
               is
               the
               more
               vntrue
               .
            
             
               Yea
               which
               is
               more
               ,
               doe
               not
               (
               I
               pray
               you
               )
               the
               phātasticall
               Swinkefildians
               a
               younger
               broode
               of
               your
               grande
               father
               Luther
               ,
               alleage
               scripture
               for
               theire
               reiectinge
               of
               all
               scripture
               ,
               and
               adheringe
               to
               theire
               dreames
               and
               reuelations
               ?
               yea
               and
               such
               scriptures
               as
               if
               you
               had
               the
               like
               for
               anie
               pointe
               of
               your
               misbeleefe
               ,
               you
               would
               thinke
               it
               fullie
               prooued
               by
               them
               .
               You
               say
               that
               heretikes
               hate
               scriptures
               as
               dogges
               doe
               whippes
               ;
               which
               is
               true
               when
               they
               are
               vnderstoode
               in
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               not
               accordinge
               to
               theire
               owne
               interpretation
               ,
               and
               after
               the
               same
               manner
               doe
               you
               loue
               them
               ,
               and
               not
               otherwise
               .
               
                 They
                 affirme
              
               ,
               say
               you
               ,
               
                 as
                 papists
                 do●
                 ,
                 more
                 force
                 to
                 be
                 in
                 traditions
                 then
                 in
                 scriptures
                 .
              
               What
               papist
               can
               you
               name
               that
               euer
               affirmed
               this
               ?
               name
               one
               at
               least
               or
               say
               you
               belie
               thē
               ?
               and
               doe
               not
               inuert
               the
               question
               ,
               but
               compare
               the
               receiued
               scripture
               ,
               with
               an
               approoued
               tradition
               ,
               for
               so
               are
               they
               to
               be
               compared
               to
               finde
               out
               whether
               of
               them
               hath
               the
               greater
               force
               :
               where
               I
               woulde
               haue
               you
               further
               to
               note
               ,
               that
               the
               heretikes
               theire
               alleaginge
               of
               traditions
               ,
               doth
               prooue
               the
               authoritie
               of
               traditions
               euen
               with
               catholikes
               .
               For
               no
               man
               of
               common
               sēce
               will
               alleage
               an
               authoritie
               which
               he
               knoweth
               to
               be
               not
               receiued
               of
               his
               aduersarie
               ,
               or
               could
               proue
               that
               it
               ought
               to
               be
               receiued
               .
               You
               say
               .
               
                 Mar●ion
                 did
                 massacre
                 the
                 scriptures
              
               .
               But
               did
               he
               massacre
               the
               them
               more
               then
               your
               Maysters
               Luther
               and
               Caluin
               doe
               ,
               who
               cutt
               out
               of
               them
               manie
               whole
               bookes
               ;
               besides
               manie
               notable
               parcels
               of
               those
               bookes
               which
               they
               seeme
               to
               receiue
               ?
               Artemon
               ,
               you
               say
               ,
               affirmed
               
               
                 that
                 all
                 the
                 auncients
                 yea
                 ,
                 the
                 Apostles
                 taught
                 as
                 he
                 did
                 and
                 yett
                 layde
                 irreligious
                 handes
                 vppon
                 the
                 scriptures
                 sayinge
                 he
                 had
                 reformed
                 them
                 .
              
               And
               doe
               not
               (
               I
               pray
               you
               )
               your
               masters
               ,
               say
               ,
               and
               doe
               the
               verie
               same
               ?
               where
               ,
               for
               the
               loue
               of
               God
               were
               your
               witts
               when
               you
               wrote
               these
               thinges
               ,
               that
               you
               sawe
               not
               all
               these
               sayinges
               of
               yours
               to
               be
               bloudie
               stripes
               to
               your selfe
               ?
               lett
               vs
               see
               the
               rest
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Yea
               Arrius
               himselfe
               began
               thus
               his
               booke
            
             
             
               Thalia
               .
               After
               this
               manner
               haue
               I
               learned
               of
               the
               elect
               of
               God
               accordinge
               to
               faith
               ,
               the
               knowers
               of
               him
               and
               the
               right
               walkers
               after
               him
               .
               And
               of
               his
               followers
               whom
               you
               esteeme
               to
               haue
               stoode
               so
               much
               vppon
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               Athanasius
               reportes
               ,
               that
               when
               they
               coulde
               not
               preuaile
               by
               them
               ,
               they
               fledd
               to
               the
               Fathers
               ,
               as
               theeues
               vsuallie
               pretende
               honest
               and
               modest
               men
               to
               be
               theire
               companions
               ,
               like
               the
               wicked
               Iewes
               which
               claimed
               Abraham
               for
               theire
               Father
               ,
               when
               they
               were
               conuicted
               by
               the
               scriptures
               .
               Against
               all
               which
               as
               against
               your
               traditions
               ,
               we
               oppose
               that
               worthie
               sayinge
               of
               Hierome
               .
               All
               thinges
               that
               they
               pretende
            
             
             
               without
               authoritie
               and
               testimonie
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               thrust
               through
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               goe
               still
               forewarde
               in
               your
               impertinences
               ,
               hauinge
               either
               forgotten
               what
               you
               shoulde
               prooue
               ,
               or
               wittinglie
               wandringe
               vpp
               and
               downe
               to
               dazell
               the
               eies
               of
               your
               lesse
               skilfull
               reader
               ,
               and
               to
               wearie
               your
               aduersarie
               with
               followinge
               your
               idle
               stepps
               .
               What
               I
               pray
               you
               doth
               all
               this
               you
               haue
               sayde
               ,
               make
               to
               prooue
               that
               heretickes
               alleage
               not
               scriptures
               ,
               for
               theire
               errours
               which
               is
               that
               you
               vndertooke
               to
               prooue
               ?
               nothinge
               att
               all
               .
               If
               you
               woulde
               prooue
               that
               Arrius
               
               and
               his
               sectaries
               alleaged
               not
               scriptures
               for
               theire
               heresie
               because
               in
               the
               first
               line
               of
               his
               booke
               Thalia
               (
               which
               seemeth
               to
               haue
               much
               semblance
               with
               the
               stile
               of
               your
               elected
               brotherhoode
               )
               he
               alleageth
               none
               ,
               you
               are
               too
               seelie
               a
               disputer
               to
               beare
               the
               name
               of
               a
               doctour
               .
               But
               S.
               Athanasius
               saith
               ,
               they
               fledd
               to
               the
               fathers
               seinge
               they
               coulde
               not
               preuaile
               by
               the
               scriptures
               Be
               it
               that
               S.
               Athan
               :
               saith
               soe
               ,
               it
               is
               euident
               thereby
               that
               they
               alleaged
               scriptures
               contrarie
               to
               your
               assertion
               .
               S.
               Hierō
               whom
               you
               drawe
               in
               by
               the
               eares
               saith
               as
               little
               to
               your
               purpose
               ,
               putt
               case
               you
               cite
               him
               truelie
               which
               I
               will
               not
               stande
               to
               examine
               .
               For
               he
               saith
               no
               such
               thinge
               as
               that
               heretikes
               alleage
               not
               scriptures
               ;
               which
               you
               shoulde
               prooue
               ;
               but
               because
               you
               imagine
               his
               sayinge
               to
               make
               against
               traditions
               ,
               which
               if
               you
               had
               but
               one
               sparke
               of
               iudgment
               you
               would
               see
               howe
               vnseasonablie
               you
               impugne
               here
               )
               I
               will
               answere
               it
               by
               puttinge
               you
               in
               minde
               that
               catholickes
               pretend
               not
               traditions
               without
               the
               testimonie
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               butt
               accordinge
               to
               the
               expresse
               testimonie
               thereof
               ,
               which
               you
               knowe
               and
               therefore
               is
               your
               impertinencie
               in
               alleaginge
               S.
               Hierome
               his
               wordes
               lesse
               excusable
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             What
             then
             ?
             thoughe
             Satan
             the
             Father
             ,
             and
             heretikes
             his
             sonnes
             abuse
             the
             letter
             of
             the
             scripture
             ,
             as
             you
             papists
             nowe
             doe
             ,
             yett
             with
             noe
             other
             weapon
             did
             Christ
             conquer
             him
             and
             them
             ,
             to
             teach
             vs
             that
             they
             onlie
             are
             the
             sworde
             of
             the
             spirit
             ,
             wherewith
             the
             deuill
             and
             all
             his
             adherents
             must
             be
             putt
             to
             flight
             ;
             but
             this
             you
             say
             is
             the
             sence
             and
             not
             the
             wordes
             onlie
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Whether
               you
               or
               we
               abuse
               the
               scriptures
               as
               Satan
               did
               ,
               is
               in
               controuersie
               betweene
               vs
               ,
               and
               must
               necessarilie
               light
               vppon
               one
               side
               .
               In
               the
               meane
               tyme
               whilst
               it
               appeare
               whether
               you
               or
               we
               be
               the
               scholers
               of
               Satan
               ,
               
               hence
               it
               is
               clearlie
               manifest
               that
               it
               is
               not
               enoughe
               for
               the
               proofe
               of
               anie
               doctrine
               to
               cite
               scripture
               for
               it
               ,
               which
               is
               my
               position
               ,
               against
               which
               you
               haue
               hitherto
               wilfullie
               wrangled
               .
               And
               if
               you
               will
               stande
               to
               that
               ignoraunt
               paradox
               of
               yours
               ,
               that
               with
               no
               other
               weapon
               then
               the
               scriptures
               our
               Sauiour
               conquered
               the
               deuill
               and
               his
               children
               ,
               and
               that
               to
               teach
               vs
               ,
               that
               they
               onlie
               are
               the
               sworde
               of
               the
               spiritt
               ,
               where
               with
               they
               are
               to
               be
               putt
               to
               flight
               ;
               blott
               out
               of
               your
               Bibles
               the
               whole
               newe
               testament
               as
               you
               haue
               donne
               manie
               bookes
               of
               the
               ould
               ;
               for
               no
               worde
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               was
               written
               diuers
               yeeres
               after
               our
               Sauiours
               Ascention
               into
               heauen
               ,
               and
               triumphe
               ouer
               the
               deuill
               and
               hel
               .
               Woulde
               you
               haue
               me
               conclud
               this
               in
               forme
               of
               argument
               against
               you
               ?
               Here
               take
               it
               .
               That
               scripture
               onlie
               is
               the
               sworde
               of
               the
               spirit
               which
               our
               Sauiour
               vsed
               .
               But
               he
               vsed
               noe
               other
               scripture
               then
               the
               oulde
               testament
               ,
               ergo
               the
               ould
               testament
               oulie
               is
               the
               sworde
               of
               the
               spirit
               .
               The
               maior
               is
               your
               owne
               ,
               the
               minor
               is
               euident
               ,
               the
               conclusion
               followeth
               directlie
               vpon
               the
               premisses
               .
               Whence
               clearlie
               followeth
               this
               consequence
               .
               Therefore
               the
               newe
               testament
               is
               not
               necessarie
               .
               So
               that
               you
               see
               howe
               well
               you
               argue
               for
               the
               authoritie
               and
               dignitie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               .
               But
               
                 qui
                 ambulat
                 in
                 tenebris
                 nescit
                 quo
                 vaait
                 .
              
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Madd
             Orestes
             would
             sweare
             he
             were
             out
             of
             
             his
             witts
             ,
             that
             could
             imagine
             otherwise
             :
             For
             the
             the
             Gospell
             lyeth
             not
             in
             the
             wordes
             of
             the
             scripture
             ,
             but
             in
             the
             sence
             ,
             not
             in
             the
             rinde
             ,
             but
             in
             the
             pith
             ,
             not
             in
             the
             leaues
             of
             speeches
             ,
             but
             in
             the
             grounde
             of
             reason
             saith
             the
             same
             Father
             .
             Wherein
             it
             followeth
             that
             gods
             worde
             foolishlie
             vnderstoode
             ,
             is
             not
             his
             worde
             ,
             which
             consisteth
             not
             in
             reading
             but
             in
             vnderstandinge
             ,
             and
             that
             adulteratinge
             the
             sence
             ,
             hurteth
             the
             truth
             as
             
             much
             as
             marringe
             the
             sentences
             of
             scriptures
             .
             The
             sence
             then
             is
             the
             Garlād
             we
             striue
             for
             ;
             which
             whether
             it
             be
             with
             you
             or
             vs
             ,
             you
             refer
             your
             selfe
             vnto
             the
             incorrupte
             testimonie
             of
             some
             holy
             Father
             ,
             that
             liued
             a
             thousand
             yeres
             a
             goe
             ,
             as
             if
             you
             meant
             to
             stand
             to
             the
             Fathers
             verdict
             ▪
             whome
             your
             good
             maysters
             as
             scornefullie
             contemne
             ,
             as
             if
             they
             were
             schoole
             boyes
             ,
             when
             once
             they
             contradict
             the
             sence
             of
             the
             Roman
             church
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               willinglie
               ioyne
               with
               you
               in
               this
               issue
               also
               ;
               that
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               scripture
               is
               the
               garlande
               you
               ought
               to
               striue
               for
               .
               And
               if
               you
               dare
               ,
               the
               Fathers
               shall
               be
               the
               iudge
               of
               our
               plea
               ;
               but
               you
               dare
               as
               well
               eat
               hoat
               coales
               ,
               as
               stande
               to
               theire
               verdict
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             When
             we
             prooue
             out
             of
             Tertullian
             that
             liued
             200.
             yeeres
             after
             Christ
             ,
             that
             Pope
             Zepherinus
             fauored
             the
             heresie
             of
             Montanus
             ,
             contrarie
             to
             your
             newe
             Roman
             Sence
             ,
             that
             Popes
             cannot
             erre
             ,
             we
             must
             not
             at
             all
             beleeue
             Tertullian
             in
             this
             point
             saith
             Bellarmine
             .
             For
             he
             was
             a
             Montanist
             ,
             yea
             an
             euill
             spiritt
             so
             carried
             him
             ,
             that
             of
             euill
             being
             made
             worse
             ,
             and
             worse
             ,
             and
             most
             filthie
             ,
             he
             spued
             out
             most
             horrible
             blasphemies
             saith
             Barronius
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               this
               to
               the
               purpose
               of
               tryinge
               the
               true
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               !
               haue
               you
               so
               quicklie
               forgotten
               the
               thinge
               in
               question
               ?
               But
               to
               followe
               you
               in
               your
               extrauagances
               ,
               least
               you
               should
               thinke
               your
               obiection
               not
               to
               be
               answered
               .
               Tell
               me
               I
               pray
               you
               in
               the
               small
               honestie
               of
               a
               minister
               ,
               whether
               you
               geue
               more
               creditt
               to
               Tertullian
               nowe
               a
               confessed
               heretike
               ,
               in
               a
               matter
               aduantageous
               to
               his
               errour
               ,
               then
               to
               
               all
               antiquitie
               ,
               testifyinge
               Zepherin
               Pope
               to
               haue
               been
               an
               holy
               Sainte
               and
               Martyr
               ?
               Are
               you
               so
               maliuouslie
               bent
               against
               the
               Pope
               and
               sea
               of
               Rome
               ,
               that
               to
               fix
               some
               fault
               vppon
               them
               you
               will
               put
               Saincts
               out
               of
               heauen
               ,
               make
               martyrs
               heretikes
               ,
               and
               that
               for
               the
               bare
               testimonie
               of
               a
               professed
               heretike
               ?
               lett
               the
               iudicious
               reader
               iudge
               what
               spiritt
               you
               are
               guided
               by
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               When
               we
               vrge
               S.
               Aug.
               to
               prooue
               that
               in
               the
            
             
             
               state
               of
               corruption
               there
               is
               no
               free
               will
               in
               man
               to
               that
               which
               is
               good
               ,
               contrarie
               to
               your
               sence
               ,
               Stapleton
               saith
               he
               went
               beyond
               all
               good
               measure
               in
               his
               dispute
               against
               Pelagius
               ,
               with
               like
               vsage
               doe
               they
               entertaine
               the
               rest
               when
               they
               crosse
               theire
               grosse
               errours
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               obiection
               is
               as
               impertinent
               as
               the
               precedent
               .
               For
               be
               it
               that
               the
               Fathers
               haue
               some
               harde
               speeches
               which
               heretikes
               abuse
               to
               theire
               owne
               hurte
               ,
               what
               maruell
               ?
               sith
               the
               holy
               ghost
               testifieth
               the
               like
               of
               the
               
               holy
               scriptures
               themselues
               .
               Stapleton
               speaketh
               neuer
               a
               worde
               directlie
               of
               free
               will
               in
               that
               chapter
               ,
               nor
               yett
               of
               S.
               Aug.
               opinion
               thereof
               .
               But
               hauinge
               shewed
               S.
               August
               :
               to
               haue
               taught
               that
               gentills
               and
               others
               not
               iustified
               doe
               not
               sinne
               in
               all
               theire
               workes
               ,
               obiecteth
               to
               himselfe
               certaine
               places
               out
               of
               S
               ,
               Aug.
               where
               disputinge
               against
               Iulian
               the
               Pelagian
               ,
               he
               seemeth
               to
               incline
               to
               the
               contrarie
               opinion
               .
               Which
               hauinge
               answered
               and
               explicated
               by
               other
               of
               his
               sayinges
               in
               the
               same
               places
               ,
               he
               concludeth
               ▪
               
                 Sed
                 vt●unque
                 in
                 hac
                 disputatione
                 moaum
                 for●asse
                 excesserit
                 Augustinus
                 ,
                 vt
                 propter
                 aduersarij
                 putuiantissiman
                 impudentiam
                 ,
                 etiam
                 peccata
                 esse
                 diceret
                 quae
                 vere
                 &
                 perfecte
                 bona
                 non
                 essent
                 ,
                 tamen
                 nusquan
                 alibi
                 id
                 dixisse
                 aut
                 scripsisse
                 legitur
                 ,
                 vbi
                 sine
                 aduersario
                 non
                 agonostice
                 ,
                 sed
                 dogmatice
                 scripsit
                 .
              
               Which
               are
               the
               wordes
               of
               Stapletō
               you
               carpe
               att
               ,
               but
               why
               ,
               if
               you
               consider
               them
               a
               little
               better
               
               you
               will
               not
               easilie
               shewe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               For
               howesoeuer
               your
               councell
               of
               Trent
               make
               a
               semblance
               to
               decree
               that
               the
               scriptures
               must
               be
               interpreted
               accordinge
               to
               the
               sence
               which
               the
               churche
               holdeth
               ,
               or
               the
               vnanimous
               consent
               of
               the
               fathers
               approoueth
               ,
               yett
               it
               is
               plaine
               ,
               that
               as
               when
               Caesar
               and
               Bibulus
               were
               consulls
               together
               ,
               whatsoeuer
               was
               decreed
               and
               donne
               ,
               was
               ascribed
               to
               Caesar
               ,
               Bibulus
               was
               a
               Cypher
               .
               So
               whatsoeuer
               interpretation
               the
               Romā
               churche
               ,
               that
               is
               the
               Pope
               geueth
               ,
               that
               must
               be
               intertayued
               ,
               the
               fathers
               sett
               behinde
               the
               dore
               .
               This
               your
               Cardinall
               that
               was
               present
               at
               the
               counsell
               vnder
               Pius
               the
               fowerth
               telleth
               vs.
               Whatsoeuer
               the
            
             
             
               churche
               teacheth
               vs
               is
               the
               expresse
               worde
               of
               God
               ,
               whatsoeuer
               is
               taught
               contrarie
               to
               the
               sence
               and
               sentence
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               is
               the
               expresse
               worde
               of
               the
               diuell
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               maruell
               whither
               you
               will
               wander
               at
               lenght
               ▪
               what
               is
               all
               this
               to
               the
               tryinge
               whether
               you
               or
               we
               haue
               the
               true
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ?
               The
               councell
               of
               Trent
               decreeth
               expreslie
               that
               which
               you
               seeme
               to
               approoue
               ,
               and
               yett
               you
               are
               not
               content
               with
               it
               ,
               your
               example
               of
               Caesar
               and
               Bibulus
               in
               a
               grammer
               scholler
               had
               been
               tollerable
               ,
               but
               in
               a
               D.
               of
               diuinitie
               it
               is
               too
               ridiculous
               .
               And
               if
               you
               dislike
               the
               doctrine
               which
               you
               ascribe
               to
               Cardinal
               Hosius
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               onlie
               mumble
               and
               grumble
               att
               it
               ,
               with
               in
               your
               teeth
               ,
               without
               disproouinge
               it
               either
               by
               scriptures
               or
               fathers
               ?
               But
               your
               malice
               will
               not
               permitt
               you
               to
               imbrace
               the
               truth
               ,
               nor
               your
               courage
               or
               strenght
               ,
               serue
               you
               to
               impugne
               it
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               And
               another
               more
               auncient
               then
               he
               .
               It
               is
               no
            
             
             
               maruelle
               if
               the
               practise
               of
               the
               churche
               at
               one
               tyme
               interprett
               the
               scriptures
               after
               this
               manner
               ,
               and
               another
               after
               that
               :
               for
               the
               vnderstandinge
               runneth
               with
               the
               practice
               ;
               for
               that
               sence
               which
               is
               concurrent
               with
               the
               practice
               is
               the
               quickinge
               spiritt
               ,
               therefore
               the
               scriptures
               followe
               church
               ,
               not
               conuertiblie
               .
               If
               then
               the
               sentence
               of
               the
               Fathers
               rūne
               not
               with
               the
               moderne
               Roman
               church
               ,
               they
               are
               not
               the
               messengers
               of
               God
               ,
               but
               in
               this
               manes
               opinion
               instruments
               of
               the
               diuell
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               still
               wander
               out
               of
               the
               way
               ,
               and
               stray
               from
               your
               purpose
               .
               But
               I
               will
               yett
               folowe
               you
               thoughe
               not
               without
               some
               patience
               .
               Cusanus
               speaketh
               expresslie
               of
               the
               vse
               or
               sece
               of
               scriptures
               so
               farr
               as
               they
               pertaine
               to
               the
               rite
               ,
               order
               or
               manner
               of
               administring
               the
               Sacraments
               ,
               and
               namelie
               of
               Communion
               vnder
               one
               or
               both
               kindes
               ;
               which
               rites
               or
               Ceremonies
               because
               they
               may
               be
               diuerse
               and
               changeable
               without
               anie
               preiudice
               either
               to
               the
               nature
               of
               the
               Sacraments
               or
               to
               the
               veritie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               (
               as
               indeede
               they
               are
               at
               this
               day
               different
               in
               the
               Greeke
               and
               Latin
               church
               ,
               the
               one
               consecratinge
               the
               holy
               Eucharist
               in
               leauened
               bredd
               ,
               the
               other
               in
               vnleauened
               ,
               and
               yett
               neither
               of
               them
               contrarie
               to
               the
               scriptures
               )
               they
               may
               be
               altered
               and
               changed
               accordinge
               as
               the
               wisdome
               of
               gods
               churche
               seeth
               iust
               occasion
               ,
               and
               yett
               accordinge
               to
               the
               sence
               and
               meaning
               of
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               to
               the
               churche
               is
               neuer
               vnknowne
               ,
               and
               this
               is
               Cusanus
               his
               plaine
               doctrine
               ,
               which
               you
               could
               not
               haue
               been
               ignorant
               of
               ,
               if
               you
               had
               read
               him
               yourselfe
               .
               But
               it
               is
               your
               good
               nature
               ,
               to
               make
               alwaies
               the
               worst
               sence
               of
               your
               authors
               to
               deceaue
               your
               reader
               thereby
               .
               For
               he
               speaketh
               not
               of
               scriptures
               so
               farr
               as
               
               they
               containe
               articles
               of
               faith
               ,
               which
               euer
               are
               the
               same
               ,
               but
               as
               they
               appertaine
               to
               matters
               of
               practice
               ,
               which
               may
               be
               different
               accordinge
               to
               the
               diuersitie
               of
               circumstances
               occurringe
               .
               In
               settinge
               downe
               his
               wordes
               ,
               you
               vse
               your
               accustomed
               arte
               and
               fraude
               .
               For
               his
               wordes
               where
               vppon
               you
               would
               make
               your
               cheefe
               aduantage
               are
               these
               .
               
                 Therefore
                 the
                 scriptures
                 followe
                 the
                 church
                 which
                 was
                 before
                 them
                 and
                 for
                 which
                 the
                 scriptures
                 are
                 ,
                 not
                 contrarie
                 :
              
               That
               is
               ,
               the
               churche
               is
               not
               for
               the
               scriptures
               .
               Whereas
               you
               leauing
               out
               some
               parte
               of
               his
               speache
               ,
               make
               his
               wordes
               to
               sound
               that
               the
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               followe
               the
               vnderstandinge
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               not
               the
               vnderstandinge
               of
               the
               churche
               the
               sence
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               but
               might
               be
               contrarie
               vnto
               it
               :
               which
               neither
               he
               nor
               anie
               other
               catholick
               man
               euer
               dreamed
               of
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             And
             in
             verie
             deed
             thoughe
             the
             Pope
             hath
             deuised
             a
             solemne
             oath
             whereunto
             your
             prosessours
             are
             sworne
             ,
             that
             they
             shall
             admitte
             of
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             accordinge
             to
             that
             sence
             which
             the
             holy
             mother
             the
             churche
             holdeth
             ,
             and
             they
             shall
             not
             at
             anie
             tyme
             take
             or
             interprett
             them
             ,
             but
             accordinge
             to
             the
             vnanimous
             consent
             of
             the
             fathers
             ,
             yett
             it
             is
             manifest
             that
             they
             doe
             not
             onlie
             leaue
             the
             sence
             ,
             which
             the
             fathers
             followe
             ,
             but
             followe
             that
             which
             noe
             father
             within
             .
             500.
             yeres
             after
             Christ
             did
             euer
             dreame
             of
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Seinge
               the
               councell
               of
               Trent
               hath
               decreed
               as
               you
               say
               ,
               and
               the
               Pope
               hath
               appointed
               an
               othe
               to
               binde
               men
               to
               followe
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               deliuered
               by
               the
               church
               and
               consent
               of
               the
               fathers
               ,
               you
               haue
               small
               reason
               to
               say
               it
               is
               manifest
               that
               catholikes
               doe
               leaue
               that
               sence
               ,
               without
               some
               manifest
               proofe
               of
               
               your
               assertion
               ,
               which
               I
               will
               expect
               and
               exact
               of
               you
               vnder
               paine
               to
               esteeme
               you
               a
               rashe
               and
               slaunderous
               impostour
               .
               In
               the
               meane
               tyme
               whilst
               you
               performe
               this
               taske
               ,
               you
               may
               for
               your
               erudition
               vnderstand
               ;
               that
               it
               is
               one
               thinge
               to
               giue
               an
               interpretation
               of
               a
               place
               of
               scripture
               ,
               which
               the
               fathers
               haue
               not
               geuen
               before
               ,
               and
               another
               to
               interprete
               it
               contrarie
               to
               the
               vniforme
               Consent
               of
               fathers
               .
               The
               churche
               of
               god
               beinge
               no
               lesse
               assisted
               nowe
               by
               the
               holie
               ghost
               which
               teacheth
               her
               all
               truth
               accordinge
               to
               the
               infalible
               promise
               of
               our
               auiour
               Christe
               ,
               then
               was
               the
               churche
               within
               the
               first
               500.
               yeeres
               ,
               shee
               is
               no
               lesse
               able
               to
               interprete
               the
               scripture
               accordinge
               to
               the
               true
               meaninge
               thereof
               ,
               then
               shee
               was
               then
               :
               yet
               shee
               neuer
               ga●e-saith
               the
               interpretation
               of
               the
               auncient
               churche
               ,
               or
               of
               the
               vniforme
               consent
               of
               the
               holy
               fathers
               ▪
               but
               lett
               vs
               heare
               howe
               you
               prooue
               your
               sayinge
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Your
             late
             diuines
             interpretinge
             that
             place
             :
             there
             shall
             be
             one
             flocke
             and
             one
             Shephearde
             ,
             forsake
             the
             fathers
             which
             vnderstande
             it
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             cleaue
             to
             the
             sence
             of
             theire
             mother
             ,
             who
             will
             haue
             it
             to
             be
             the
             Pope
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Are
               you
               a
               master
               in
               Cambridge
               and
               knowe
               not
               that
               these
               two
               sences
               may
               be
               both
               true
               without
               anie
               contrarietie
               ?
               neither
               moderne
               nor
               auntient
               diuines
               euer
               vnderstood
               this
               place
               otherwise
               then
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               principallie
               and
               for
               himselfe
               ,
               or
               
                 per
                 excell●ntiam
              
               .
               But
               that
               it
               is
               not
               trulie
               vnderstood
               of
               him
               to
               whome
               he
               commended
               his
               flock
               which
               he
               redeemed
               as
               S.
               Chri●ostome
               saith
               )
               who
               therefore
               is
               his
               vicar
               and
               vicegerent
               here
               in
               earth
               ,
               and
               also
               of
               his
               lauful
               successour
               in
               the
               same
               charge
               ,
               secondarilie
               and
               by
               participation
               ,
               none
               but
               contentious
               heretikes
               ,
               who
               will
               see
               nothinge
               in
               the
               scriptures
               contratie
               to
               theire
               errour
               ,
               doe
               ,
               will
               ,
               or
               canne
               denie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Doe
             this
             in
             remembrance
             of
             me
             ,
             that
             is
             sacrifice
             ;
             this
             is
             nowe
             the
             sence
             of
             the
             Roman
             churche
             ,
             shewe
             one
             father
             that
             tooke
             it
             soe
             ,
             and
             you
             shall
             weare
             the
             garland
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Stand
               to
               your
               worde
               ,
               and
               the
               garlande
               will
               be
               mine
               by
               anie
               indifferent
               mans
               iudgment
               .
               Heare
               S.
               Ireneus
               who
               liued
               aboue
               .
               1400.
               yeres
               agoe
               ;
               
                 ●ū
                 ,
                 qui
              
               
               
                 ex
                 creatura
                 panis
                 est
                 ,
                 accepit
                 ,
                 &
                 gratias
                 egit
                 dicens
                 :
                 Hoc
                 est
                 corpus
                 meū
                 ,
                 &
                 calicē
                 similiter
                 ;
                 qui
                 est
                 ex
                 creatura
                 ,
                 quae
                 est
                 secundum
                 nos
                 ,
                 suum
                 sanguinem
                 confessus
                 ect
                 ,
                 &
                 noui
                 testamenti
                 nouam
                 docuit
                 oblationcm
                 ,
                 quam
                 Ecclesia
                 ab
                 Apostoli●
                 accipiēs
                 in
                 vniuerso
                 mundo
                 offer●
                 Deo.
              
               When
               he
               tooke
               that
               which
               is
               of
               the
               creature
               bread
               ,
               and
               gaue
               thankes
               sayinge
               .
               
                 This
                 is
                 m●
                 boddy
              
               :
               and
               likewise
               the
               chalice
               ,
               which
               is
               of
               the
               creature
               which
               is
               with
               vs
               ,
               hee
               confessed
               it
               to
               be
               his
               bloode
               ,
               and
               taught
               a
               newe
               oblation
               '
               of
               the
               newe
               lawe
               ,
               which
               the
               Church
               receauinge
               from
               the
               Apostles
               doth
               offer
               it
               to
               God
               ,
               thorough
               the
               whole
               worlde
               :
               These
               are
               his
               wordes
               :
               you
               will
               peraduenture
               say
               that
               here
               is
               no
               mention
               of
               these
               wordes
               (
               doe
               this
               )
               the
               exposition
               whereof
               is
               nowe
               in
               question
               ,
               .
               It
               is
               true
               that
               here
               is
               no
               expresse
               mention
               of
               them
               .
               But
               S.
               Ireneus
               epreslie
               sayinge
               that
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               when
               he
               sayde
               
                 hoc
                 est
                 corpus
                 meum
              
               ,
               taught
               a
               newe
               oblation
               of
               the
               newe
               Testament
               ,
               declareth
               plainlie
               in
               what
               wordes
               he
               taught
               this
               oblatiō
               .
               For
               it
               beinge
               clear
               in
               S.
               Ireneus
               his
               doctrine
               ,
               that
               our
               Sauiour
               Chr.
               sacrificed
               his
               bodie
               and
               bloud
               at
               that
               tyme
               ,
               it
               cannot
               be
               called
               into
               doubt
               ,
               but
               he
               gaue
               to
               his
               Apostles
               by
               these
               wordes
               
                 doe
                 this
              
               ,
               power
               and
               authoritie
               to
               doe
               the
               same
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             What
             father
             euer
             conceiued
             ,
             drinke
             ye
             all
             of
             this
             ,
             to
             be
             vnderstoode
             onlie
             of
             priests
             ,
             and
             not
             of
             the
             people
             also
             ,
             which
             nowe
             is
             the
             sence
             of
             
             your
             holy
             mother
             ▪
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               No
               man
               saith
               these
               wordes
               ;
               
                 drinke
                 ●ee
                 all
                 of
                 this
              
               ,
               so
               to
               haue
               been
               spoken
               to
               the
               Apostells
               and
               consequentlie
               to
               priests
               ,
               that
               the
               laytie
               is
               by
               diuine
               precept
               excluded
               ;
               but
               that
               they
               may
               if
               the
               churche
               (
               which
               all
               that
               will
               not
               be
               as
               publicans
               and
               heathens
               are
               bound
               to
               heare
               )
               thinke
               good
               ,
               also
               drinke
               thereof
               ,
               as
               they
               haue
               donne
               in
               some
               tymes
               and
               some
               places
               .
               But
               that
               these
               wordes
               are
               so
               spoken
               to
               the
               laytie
               ,
               that
               they
               are
               commaunded
               to
               drinke
               of
               the
               Chalice
               ,
               you
               cannot
               I
               thinke
               shewe
               anie
               one
               father
               that
               affirmeth
               it
               ,
               much
               lesse
               the
               vniforme
               consent
               of
               the
               fathers
               .
               And
               therefore
               your
               obiection
               is
               altogether
               impertinent
               to
               prooue
               ,
               that
               we
               leaue
               the
               interpretation
               of
               the
               fathers
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Againe
               psalme
               the.
               S.
               God
               putt
               all
               thinges
            
             
             
               vnder
               his
               seete
               ,
               that
               is
               of
               the
               Pope
               ,
               beastes
               of
               the
               field
               ,
               that
               is
               men
               liuinge
               vppon
               the
               earth
               :
               fishes
               of
               the
               sea
               ,
               that
               is
               soules
               in
               purgatorie
               :
               fowles
               of
               heauen
               ,
               that
               is
               soules
               of
               the
               blessed
               ,
               which
               by
               Canonization
               the
               Pope
               may
               propose
               to
               be
               adored
               :
               name
               anie
               father
               if
               you
               can
               ,
               that
               so
               dalyed
               and
               played
               with
               godes
               sacred
               worde
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Name
               you
               anie
               one
               chatholike
               Doctor
               that
               geueth
               this
               interpretation
               of
               this
               place
               for
               the
               literall
               sence
               thereof
               ,
               or
               if
               you
               cannot
               ,
               blush
               at
               your
               impertinencies
               ;
               bringinge
               the
               morall
               or
               misticall
               interpretation
               of
               one
               author
               ,
               to
               prooue
               that
               catholikes
               leaue
               the
               vniforme
               literall
               interpretation
               of
               the
               scriptures
               geuen
               by
               the
               fathers
               ▪
               yea
               though
               this
               were
               geuen
               for
               the
               literal
               sence
               of
               this
               place
               ,
               yet
               would
               it
               not
               prooue
               that
               we
               leaue
               the
               fathers
               interpretation
               of
               the
               same
               place
               :
               one
               passage
               of
               scripture
               ,
               beinge
               capable
               of
               
               diuers
               literall
               interpretations
               :
               so
               that
               your
               impertinencie
               appeareth
               yett
               more
               grosse
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               As
               then
               the
               Iewes
               tyed
               themselues
               to
               theire
               Rabbines
               ,
               that
               they
               must
               receiue
               whatsoeuer
               they
               teach
               ,
               thoughe
               they
               say
               the
               right
               hande
               is
               the
               lefte
               :
               so
               haue
               you
               captiuated
               your self
               in
               such
               manner
               to
               the
               ▪
               sence
               of
               the
               Romane
               churche
               ,
               that
               one
               of
               yours
               is
               not
               afrayde
               to
               teache
               ,
            
             
             
               is
               anie
               man
               haue
               her
               interpretation
               of
               anie
               place
               of
               scripture
               ,
               thoughe
               he
               neither
               knowe
               or
               vnderstande
               whether
               or
               howe
               it
               agree
               with
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               yett
               he
               hath
               the
               worde
               of
               god
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAM
               .
            
             
               We
               doe
               not
               imitate
               the
               Iewes
               in
               adheringe
               to
               the
               churches
               sence
               of
               the
               scripture
               ,
               as
               you
               idlie
               imagine
               ,
               
               but
               we
               followe
               therein
               the
               expresse
               doctrine
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               ,
               who
               tell'eth
               vs
               that
               he
               that
               will
               not
               heare
               the
               churche
               is
               to
               be
               esteemed
               as
               a
               publican
               or
               heathen
               .
               whose
               doctrine
               if
               you
               did
               esteeme
               more
               then
               your
               owne
               fancie
               ▪
               you
               would
               not
               carpe
               at
               that
               sayinge
               of
               Hosius
               ,
               which
               is
               true
               if
               the
               gospell
               itselfe
               which
               teacheth
               the
               like
               doctrine
               ,
               be
               not
               false
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             As
             for
             the
             fathers
             we
             reade
             theire
             workes
             ,
             and
             geue
             God
             thankes
             for
             theire
             labours
             ,
             who
             haue
             cleared
             manie
             obscurities
             in
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             desended
             the
             auntient
             doctrine
             of
             the
             church
             against
             the
             nouelties
             of
             heretikes
             ,
             yett
             with
             their
             good
             leaues
             we
             passe
             by
             theire
             interpretations
             ,
             when
             they
             are
             dissonant
             from
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             willinglie
             imbrace
             them
             when
             they
             are
             consonāt
             ,
             tryinge
             theire
             expositions
             by
             them
             ,
             not
             them
             by
             theire
             expositions
             ;
             and
             in
             a
             worde
             euer
             deducing
             
             the
             sence
             of
             the
             scriptures
             from
             themselues
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               well
               you
               here
               acknowledge
               some
               obscurities
               
               in
               the
               scriptures
               .
               Hereafter
               if
               I
               be
               not
               deceiued
               you
               will
               come
               to
               denie
               all
               such
               thinge
               as
               shall
               be
               noted
               when
               we
               come
               to
               the
               place
               if
               we
               goe
               so
               farr
               together
               .
               The
               honour
               you
               geue
               here
               to
               the
               fathers
               workes
               ,
               is
               no
               other
               then
               you
               geue
               to
               the
               damnedst
               heretikes
               that
               euer
               wrote
               ,
               so
               kinde
               you
               are
               vnto
               them
               .
               For
               that
               which
               anie
               heretike
               saith
               conformablie
               to
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               you
               willinglie
               imbrace
               .
               And
               in
               one
               worde
               you
               deduce
               the
               sence
               of
               scriptures
               from
               your
               owne
               selfe-willed
               fancie
               ,
               makinge
               it
               say
               what
               you
               list
               to
               belieue
               ;
               and
               not
               belieuinge
               that
               which
               the
               scriptures
               say
               indeede
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Not
               without
               cause
               is
               there
               an
               healthfull
               ecclesiasticall
            
             
             
               Canon
               vigilantlie
               constituted
               ,
               whereunto
               certayne
               bookes
               of
               the
               prophets
               and
               Apostels
               doe
               appertaine
               ,
               which
               we
               doe
               not
               iudge
               att
               all
               ,
               and
               accordinge
               to
               which
               we
               iudge
               freelie
               of
               other
               letters
               of
               the
               faithfull
               or
               of
               infidels
               ,
               saith
               S.
               August
               .
               So
               that
               beinge
               vrged
               with
               Cyprians
               authoritie
               ,
               that
               these
               which
               were
               baptized
               in
               heresie
               or
               schisme
               were
               to
               be
               rebaptized
               ,
               he
               answereth
               we
               offer
               noe
               wronge
               to
               Cyprian
               when
               we
               putt
               a
               difference
               betweene
               his
               letters
               and
               the
               Canonicall
               authoritie
               of
               holy
               scriptures
               :
               for
               (
               as
               he
               goeth
               on
               in
               the
               next
               chapter
               )
               I
               doe
               not
               accompte
               of
               Cyprians
               letters
               as
               Canonicall
               ,
               but
               I
               weigh
               them
               by
               the
               bookes
               that
               are
               Canonicall
               ;
               and
               what
               is
               agreable
               in
               them
               to
               the
               authoritie
               of
               diuine
               scriptures
               ,
               I
               with
               praise
               intertayne
               ,
               and
               what
               is
               disagreeinge
               ,
               with
               his
               leaue
               I
               refuse
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               We
               neither
               compare
               nor
               oppose
               the
               fathers
               workes
               to
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               therefore
               these
               wordes
               of
               S
               ,
               Aug.
               are
               as
               impertinentlie
               alleaged
               by
               you
               as
               all
               the
               rest
               you
               haue
               hitherto
               sayde
               .
               If
               anie
               one
               father
               teach
               anie
               thinge
               contrarie
               to
               the
               scriptures
               interpreted
               by
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               fathers
               and
               the
               catholicke
               churche
               ,
               as
               S.
               Cyprian
               of
               humane
               errour
               ,
               and
               not
               of
               willfull
               obstinacie
               did
               ,
               we
               receiue
               not
               his
               doctrine
               in
               that
               pointe
               .
               As
               S.
               August
               :
               in
               the
               32.
               cap.
               here
               quoted
               by
               you
               expresslie
               saith
               in
               these
               wordes
               .
               
                 That
                 which
                 b●esse●
                 cyprian
                 thought
                 of
                 the
                 baptizinge
                 of
                 heretikes
                 and
                 schismatikes
                 I
                 receiue
                 not
                 ,
                 because
                 the
                 churche
                 doth
                 not
                 receiue
                 it
                 ,
                 for
                 the
                 which
                 S.
                 Cyprian
                 shedd
                 his
                 blood
                 .
              
               Followe
               you
               S.
               Aug
               :
               example
               in
               refusinge
               the
               fathers
               interpretation
               in
               this
               manner
               &
               no
               man
               will
               finde
               faulte
               with
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               This
               freedome
               which
               S.
               Aug.
               sheweth
               ,
               we
            
             
             
               protestants
               freelie
               mantaine
               against
               the
               slauerie
               of
               your
               popish
               spiritts
               ,
               knowinge
               what
               is
               due
               to
               men
               ,
               and
               acknowledginge
               what
               is
               proper
               to
               gods
               holy
               worde
               ,
               which
               we
               euer
               interprete
               out
               of
               it selfe
               ,
               wherein
               we
               followe
               the
               direction
               of
               the
               aūtient
               priests
               and
               leuits
               that
               read
               the
               lawe
               vnto
               the
               people
               expoundinge
               the
               meaninge
               and
               gaue
               the
               vnderstandinge
               according
               to
               scriptures
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               wish
               with
               all
               my
               hearte
               (
               thoughe
               you
               geue
               little
               occasion
               to
               hope
               it
               )
               that
               you
               woulde
               immitate
               S.
               Aug
               :
               aswell
               in
               this
               particular
               as
               in
               all
               other
               thinges
               :
               then
               woulde
               you
               with
               all
               humilitie
               and
               reuerence
               receiue
               and
               acknowledge
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               in
               the
               interpretation
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               not
               diabolicallie
               bragge
               of
               the
               brauenes
               of
               your
               spirits
               ,
               that
               dare
               contemne
               the
               same
               .
               Hearken
               I
               pray
               you
               vnto
               S.
               Aug
               :
               wordes
               to
               Cresconius
               in
               the
               same
               
               chapter
               cited
               by
               you
               ;
               which
               seeinge
               you
               take
               noe
               notice
               of
               ,
               it
               is
               an
               euident
               argument
               you
               haue
               noe
               greate
               desire
               to
               learne
               anie
               thinge
               of
               him
               ;
               but
               to
               see
               if
               you
               canne
               picke
               anie
               thinge
               out
               of
               him
               for
               your
               purpose
               ,
               which
               is
               to
               impugne
               him
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               fathers
               .
               His
               wordes
               are
               these
               which
               may
               as
               properlie
               be
               vsed
               to
               you
               ,
               as
               he
               vsed
               them
               to
               Cresconius
               .
               
                 Put
                 your selfe
                 (
                 saith
                 he
                 )
                 in
                 the
                 churche
                 which
                 it
              
               
               
                 is
                 manifest
                 S.
                 Cyprian
                 defended
                 ,
                 and
                 then
                 may
                 you
                 alleage
                 S.
                 Cyprians
                 authoritie
                 for
                 your
                 doctrine
                 .
              
               The
               same
               I
               say
               to
               you
               concerninge
               S.
               Aug
               :
               example
               ,
               thoughe
               you
               came
               neerer
               the
               imitatinge
               thereof
               thē
               you
               doe
               .
            
             
               You
               say
               you
               followe
               the
               direction
               of
               the
               priests
               and
               leuits
               in
               expoundinge
               scriptures
               .
               I
               finde
               nothing
               att
               all
               in
               the
               place
               quoted
               by
               you
               warrantinge
               your
               vsage
               of
               scriptures
               .
               But
               were
               it
               as
               you
               thinke
               ,
               you
               must
               first
               prooue
               your selues
               to
               be
               priests
               or
               leuits
               ,
               before
               you
               can
               take
               vppon
               you
               the
               charge
               of
               priests
               and
               leuits
               in
               expoundinge
               the
               scriptures
               .
               How
               would
               you
               answere
               that
               olde
               question
               put
               vnto
               such
               as
               you
               are
               well
               nighe
               .
               1400.
               yeares
               a
               goe
               ?
               
                 Vnde
                 vemtts
                 ?
                 quid
                 in
                 meo
                 ●acitis
                 non
                 mei
                 ?
              
               or
               if
               you
               will
               take
               vppon
               you
               as
               priests
               and
               leuits
               to
               expounde
               the
               scriptures
               beinge
               noe
               such
               men
               ,
               those
               that
               desire
               not
               to
               be
               deceaued
               ,
               will
               reiect
               your
               expositions
               as
               false
               and
               pernitious
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             And
             thus
             the
             fathers
             teache
             vs
             ,
             as
             whatsoeuer
             
             golde
             is
             without
             the
             temple
             is
             not
             sanctified
             ,
             so
             whatsoeuer
             sence
             is
             without
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             althoughe
             to
             some
             it
             seeme
             wounderfull
             ,
             yet
             is
             not
             holy
             because
             it
             is
             not
             contained
             in
             the
             scriptures
             .
             The
             scripture
             expoundeth
             her
             
             selfe
             ,
             and
             suffereth
             not
             the
             hearers
             to
             erre
             ,
             saith
             Chrisostome
             .
             He
             is
             the
             best
             reader
             ,
             sayth
             Hyllarie
             ,
             that
             expecteth
             rather
             the
             vnderstandinge
             
             of
             the
             wordes
             from
             the
             wordes
             themselues
             ,
             then
             imposeth
             it
             vppon
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               sence
               of
               the
               churche
               is
               neuer
               without
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               as
               the
               sence
               of
               all
               heretikes
               is
               which
               impugne
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               if
               the
               scriptures
               permitt
               not
               the
               hearer
               to
               err
               (
               as
               you
               say
               )
               in
               vaine
               are
               your
               expositions
               :
               euerie
               hearer
               beinge
               aswell
               able
               to
               vnderstande
               them
               as
               you
               ministers
               .
               You
               said
               not
               longe
               since
               that
               there
               are
               manie
               obscurities
               in
               the
               scriptures
               .
               and
               are
               they
               nowe
               so
               cleare
               that
               they
               permitte
               not
               the
               hearer
               to
               err
               ?
               Doe
               you
               not
               see
               what
               absurdities
               you
               runne
               into
               ,
               whilst
               you
               wrangle
               against
               the
               euident
               truth
               ?
               And
               who
               I
               pray
               you
               is
               more
               like
               to
               take
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               from
               the
               wordes
               themselues
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               impose
               it
               vppon
               them
               as
               you
               say
               out
               of
               S.
               Hillarie
               ,
               then
               the
               catholicke
               churche
               assisted
               to
               that
               end
               by
               the
               holy
               ghost
               ?
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               To
               conclude
               this
               pointe
               ,
               sith
               the
               fathers
               often
            
             
             
               roue
               att
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               vnderstandinge
               that
               literallie
               which
               is
               meant
               spiritually
               ,
               and
               contrariwise
               ,
               as
               your
               owne
               Bellarmine
               may
               informe
               you
               ,
               you
               shoulde
               haue
               donne
               well
               ,
               to
            
             
             
               haue
               followed
               the
               direction
               of
               your
               owne
               Canon
               lawe
               :
               you
               must
               not
               frō
               without
               scriptures
               seeke
               a
               forrayne
               and
               straunge
               sence
               ,
               that
               so
               you
               may
               confirme
               it
               with
               authoritie
               of
               the
               text
               as
               you
               can
               ,
               but
               of
               the
               scriptures
               themselues
               you
               must
               receiue
               the
               meaninge
               of
               the
               truth
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               the
               fathers
               roue
               at
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               (
               which
               saucie
               and
               vnseemlie
               terme
               you
               falslie
               father
               vppon
               Bellarmine
               )
               what
               shall
               I
               thinke
               you
               will
               doe
               ?
               Hitt
               the
               marke
               directlie
               ?
               what
               sencelesnes
               would
               that
               be
               ,
               to
               thinke
               that
               men
               impugninge
               violentlie
               the
               church
               ,
               which
               the
               scriptures
               testifie
               to
               be
               
               pillar
               of
               truth
               ,
               should
               be
               true
               interpreters
               of
               scriptures
               ?
               Knowe
               you
               therefore
               ,
               that
               whilst
               followe
               the
               fathers
               interpretations
               of
               the
               scriptures
               which
               they
               either
               receiue
               from
               the
               churche
               ,
               or
               is
               approoued
               and
               not
               approoued
               and
               not
               gainsayde
               by
               the
               churche
               ,
               I
               seek●
               not
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               from
               without
               them
               ,
               but
               in
               them
               ,
               by
               them
               ,
               and
               most
               conformablie
               to
               them
               ,
               and
               so
               I
               followe
               punctuallie
               the
               direction
               of
               the
               Canon
               Lawe
               ,
               as
               you
               aduise
               me
               ,
               maruellinge
               not
               a
               little
               that
               you
               should
               geue
               so
               good
               counsell
               to
               another
               ,
               and
               followe
               it
               so
               little
               your selfe
               .
            
             
               And
               nowe
               (
               Iudicious
               reader
               )
               woulde
               I
               intreate
               thee
               to
               turne
               ouer
               a
               fewe
               leaues
               backwarde
               ,
               and
               take
               reuiewe
               of
               the
               short
               section
               of
               the
               manuall
               ,
               sett
               downe
               as
               it
               is
               in
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               ,
               and
               then
               passe
               hardlie
               thy
               censure
               of
               vs
               both
               as
               thou
               shalt
               finde
               cause
               and
               ground
               .
               And
               particular
               note
               I
               woulde
               haue
               thee
               to
               take
               howe
               pertinentlie
               ,
               and
               directlie
               he
               impugneth
               that
               which
               h●
               affirms
               〈…〉
               and
               effectuallie
               prooueth
               that
               which
               I
               woulde
               haue
               thee
               obserue
               thoroughe
               ou●
               whole
               dispute
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTIO
             4.
             
          
        
         
           Thirdlie
           that
           I
           expect
           and
           exact
           of
           him
           or
           them
           that
           shall
           goe
           aboute
           to
           answere
           this
           teatise
           ,
           the
           same
           round
           ,
           sincere
           and
           direct
           dealinge
           ,
           which
           I
           haue
           here
           vsed
           ;
           Remembringe
           before
           all
           thinges
           ,
           that
           he
           sett
           downe
           his
           faith
           in
           direct
           positions
           ,
           and
           proceed
           in
           like
           methode
           as
           I
           haue
           donne
           for
           the
           rest
           .
           To
           whom
           I
           willinglie
           graunt
           this
           large
           libertie
           aboue
           that
           which
           I
           haue
           vsed
           ,
           that
           he
           tye
           not
           himselfe
           vnto
           the
           first
           .
           500.
           yeres
           after
           Christ
           for
           the
           fathers
           interpretations
           ,
           but
           that
           he
           take
           bouldlie
           .
           1500.
           yeres
           ,
           so
           that
           he
           bringe
           not
           condemned
           
           heretikes
           for
           his
           authors
           ,
           and
           with
           all
           obserue
           the
           pointe
           followinge
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             You
             may
             bouldlie
             sound
             the
             Triumphe
             before
             the
             victorie
             ,
             if
             you
             may
             prescribe
             your
             aduersaries
             howe
             and
             what
             they
             shall
             answere
             you
             ,
             which
             if
             any
             of
             vs
             shoulde
             offer
             to
             your
             side
             ,
             we
             should
             presentlie
             be
             vpbrayded
             with
             
               (
               fortissimi
               milites
            
             )
             that
             on
             noe
             other
             condition
             dare
             encounter
             with
             our
             enemies
             ,
             except
             we
             forbidde
             them
             what
             weapons
             they
             would
             vse
             ,
             and
             take
             to
             our selues
             what
             we
             list
             .
             Neuerthelesse
             rather
             then
             you
             shoulde
             complaine
             that
             you
             are
             wronged
             ,
             if
             your
             desire
             be
             not
             accomplished
             ,
             who
             carrie
             in
             your
             head
             Ticonius
             conceipt
             ,
             
               quod
               volumus
               sanctum
               est
            
             ,
             therefore
             I
             am
             content
             to
             followe
             your
             disorderlie
             order
             ,
             and
             for
             the
             rest
             of
             this
             paragraph
             doe
             as
             Antonie
             the
             oratour
             did
             ,
             who
             when
             he
             came
             to
             a
             troublesome
             pointe
             ,
             lapped
             it
             vp
             in
             silence
             :
             so
             on
             the
             contrarie
             ,
             for
             the
             easines
             of
             this
             to
             passe
             by
             itt
             ,
             and
             proceede
             to
             that
             which
             is
             of
             greater
             moment
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               not
               onlie
               lawfull
               but
               verie
               laudable
               and
               welbeseeminge
               for
               anie
               man
               to
               demande
               equall
               conditions
               of
               his
               aduersarie
               ,
               which
               notwithstandinge
               I
               haue
               spared
               to
               doe
               ;
               yeldinge
               vnto
               you
               the
               libertie
               of
               1500.
               for
               onlie
               500.
               yeeres
               ,
               which
               is
               in
               anie
               indifferent
               mens
               iudgment
               ,
               ouer
               great
               aduantage
               .
               For
               the
               rest
               of
               this
               section
               I
               will
               imitate
               your
               example
               lettinge
               it
               passe
               in
               silence
               .
               For
               I
               will
               not
               be
               ashamed
               to
               followe
               you
               where
               you
               goe
               right
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTION
             5.
             
          
        
         
           Fowerthlie
           that
           it
           shall
           not
           be
           to
           ani
           ▪
           
           purpose
           in
           way
           of
           answere
           ,
           that
           anie
           aduersarie
           bringe
           another
           interpretation
           of
           some
           father
           vpon
           the
           places
           of
           scripture
           alleaged
           by
           me
           beside
           that
           which
           I
           haue
           brought
           .
           For
           it
           is
           not
           denyed
           that
           one
           and
           the
           same
           place
           of
           scripture
           ,
           may
           be
           and
           is
           often
           diuerslie
           vnderstoode
           ,
           not
           onlie
           of
           diuerse
           fathers
           ,
           but
           of
           one
           and
           the
           same
           father
           .
           But
           if
           he
           will
           say
           anie
           thinge
           to
           the
           purpose
           in
           this
           kinde
           ,
           he
           must
           bringe
           an
           interpretation
           contradictinge
           that
           ,
           which
           I
           haue
           brought
           :
           and
           withall
           labour
           rather
           to
           prooue
           his
           owne
           doctrine
           ,
           then
           to
           impugne
           that
           of
           the
           catholickes
           .
           For
           seeinge
           it
           is
           (
           as
           all
           men
           knowe
           )
           a
           farr
           more
           easie
           thinge
           to
           impugne
           anie
           doctrine
           ,
           thoughe
           neuer
           so
           true
           ,
           then
           to
           prooue
           the
           same
           ,
           (
           no
           truth
           especiallie
           of
           faith
           ,
           beinge
           so
           euidentlie
           cleare
           ,
           but
           that
           somethinge
           with
           shewe
           of
           probabilitie
           may
           be
           obiected
           against
           it
           )
           it
           is
           not
           nowe
           expected
           that
           anie
           aduersarie
           should
           stand
           to
           answere
           those
           authorities
           of
           scripture
           and
           fathers
           which
           I
           haue
           alleaged
           for
           proofe
           of
           the
           catholicke
           doctrine
           ,
           or
           to
           impugne
           the
           same
           ,
           but
           rather
           to
           bring
           others
           in
           proofe
           of
           his
           owne
           .
           That
           the
           iudicious
           reader
           may
           compare
           our
           groundes
           in
           scripture
           both
           together
           ,
           and
           by
           the
           viewe
           of
           his
           owne
           eie
           ,
           try
           whether
           of
           them
           be
           more
           conformeable
           to
           gods
           sacred
           worde
           .
           And
           whē
           anie
           one
           shall
           haue
           produced
           his
           proofes
           for
           protestantisme
           ,
           in
           like
           manner
           as
           I
           haue
           in
           the
           behalfe
           of
           the
           catholicke
           religion
           
           (
           if
           he
           can
           so
           doe
           )
           yett
           shall
           he
           gaine
           no
           more
           thereby
           ,
           but
           an
           euident
           demonstration
           against
           the
           cheefest
           groundes
           of
           the
           protestants
           doctrine
           ,
           that
           eitherto
           the
           true
           and
           full
           decision
           of
           controuersies
           in
           matter
           of
           faith
           ,
           is
           necessarilie
           required
           some
           other
           iudgment
           or
           tryall
           ,
           then
           the
           onlie
           wordes
           of
           holie
           scripture
           ,
           or
           else
           ,
           that
           there
           is
           no
           meanes
           at
           all
           to
           end
           matters
           of
           controuersies
           of
           faith
           ,
           which
           latter
           neuerthelesse
           to
           affirme
           ,
           is
           no
           lesse
           iniurious
           to
           gods
           wisdome
           ,
           goodnes
           and
           power
           then
           to
           say
           that
           he
           hath
           prouided
           no
           sufficient
           meanes
           for
           men
           to
           knowe
           the
           way
           to
           saue
           their
           soules
           .
           For
           both
           parties
           bringinge
           scriptures
           for
           themselues
           ,
           who
           shall
           finallie
           determine
           whether
           of
           them
           doth
           applie
           the
           sayd
           scriptures
           more
           sincerelie
           ,
           and
           according
           to
           theire
           true
           meaninge
           ?
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Your
             demaundes
             doe
             so
             crosse
             one
             another
             ,
             as
             if
             your
             thoughts
             had
             been
             at
             warres
             together
             .
             First
             you
             prescribe
             your
             aduersarie
             howe
             he
             shall
             answere
             you
             ,
             not
             by
             bringing
             another
             sence
             of
             anie
             father
             vppon
             the
             place
             of
             scripture
             alleaged
             by
             you
             ,
             but
             a
             cōtradictorie
             .
             And
             thē
             you
             forbidde
             him
             to
             answere
             either
             scripture
             or
             father
             vrged
             by
             you
             ,
             but
             to
             fortifie
             &
             prooue
             his
             owne
             doctrine
             .
             But
             you
             must
             be
             cōtēt
             whether
             you
             wil
             or
             noe
             to
             suffer
             your
             aduersary
             to
             vnmaske
             your
             fraude
             ,
             and
             to
             open
             the
             vayle
             of
             your
             cunninge
             dealing
             ,
             both
             in
             your
             doubtfull
             positions
             and
             impertinent
             
             allegations
             ,
             by
             sheweinge
             the
             natiue
             sence
             of
             the
             scriptures
             euen
             from
             the
             fathers
             ,
             to
             haue
             no
             concurrence
             with
             your
             imaginations
             ,
             but
             to
             contradict
             them
             :
             and
             then
             he
             will
             be
             content
             to
             acquainte
             you
             with
             the
             groundes
             of
             his
             doctrine
             (
             which
             either
             ignorantlie
             you
             mistake
             ,
             or
             purposelie
             peruert
             )
             which
             beinge
             paralleld
             with
             yours
             ,
             the
             reader
             may
             iudge
             on
             which
             side
             the
             truth
             standeth
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               head
               is
               so
               full
               of
               crochets
               that
               you
               imagine
               my
               wordes
               to
               crosse
               one
               another
               ;
               or
               else
               you
               say
               so
               onlie
               to
               make
               your
               lesse
               heedfull
               reader
               to
               thinke
               so
               vppon
               your
               creditt
               .
               I
               neither
               prescribe
               to
               mine
               aduersarie
               how
               hee
               should
               answere
               mee
               ,
               neither
               doe
               I
               forbidd
               him
               to
               answere
               either
               scripture
               or
               Fathers
               alleaged
               by
               me
               as
               you
               are
               pleased
               to
               faigne
               out
               of
               your
               owne
               braine
               ▪
               which
               notwithstandinge
               if
               I
               hadd
               donne
               ,
               yett
               hadd
               there
               been
               no
               crossinge
               betwixte
               those
               thinges
               as
               euerie
               man
               may
               easilie
               see
               )
               but
               I
               tel
               him
               what
               manner
               of
               answere
               wil
               be
               to
               the
               purpose
               ,
               and
               what
               will
               not
               ▪
               and
               further
               I
               require
               he
               should
               first
               sett
               downe
               his
               owne
               beleefe
               with
               the
               proofe
               thereof
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ;
               which
               two
               thinges
               doe
               not
               crosse
               one
               another
               in
               anie
               mans
               iudgment
               but
               yours
               ,
               &
               besides
               ,
               the
               reasō
               which
               I
               geue
               both
               for
               the
               one
               and
               the
               other
               is
               clearlie
               good
               and
               true
               .
               For
               your
               vnmaskinge
               of
               my
               fraude
               ▪
               spare
               it
               not
               in
               gods
               name
               ;
               and
               I
               promise
               you
               that
               if
               you
               discouer
               but
               one
               quarter
               of
               those
               blotttes
               and
               blemishes
               in
               my
               face
               ,
               that
               I
               haue
               alreadie
               donne
               in
               yours
               ,
               I
               will
               hide
               it
               for
               euer
               that
               it
               neuer
               appeare
               in
               publike
               more
               .
               But
               nowe
               I
               will
               hearken
               howe
               you
               wil
               performe
               the
               greate
               thinges
               you
               here
               promise
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             this
             is
             no
             parte
             of
             your
             meaninge
             at
             all
             ,
             
             that
             your
             reader
             shoulde
             trye
             by
             the
             scriptures
             as
             the
             Bereans
             did
             ,
             and
             so
             rest
             himselfe
             satisfied
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               My
               meaninge
               (
               good
               Sr.
               )
               is
               that
               the
               reader
               should
               searche
               the
               scriptures
               alleaged
               by
               me
               in
               proofe
               of
               the
               catholicke
               saith
               ,
               and
               tr●e
               whether
               he
               finde
               them
               not
               so
               as
               I
               haue
               cited
               them
               ;
               which
               the
               Bereans
               did
               .
               Whereby
               he
               shall
               finde
               the
               chatholicke
               doctrine
               to
               be
               trulie
               grounded
               vppon
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               and
               consormeable
               vnto
               them
               ,
               as
               the
               Bereans
               did
               finde
               S
               Paules
               doctrine
               to
               be
               :
               thoughe
               they
               were
               bound●
               to
               beleeue
               his
               preachinge
               without
               that
               research
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             your
             drifte
             is
             ,
             after
             you
             haue
             sett
             the
             scriptures
             togeather
             by
             the
             eares
             ,
             to
             thrust
             vppon
             him
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             Pope
             ,
             who
             must
             finallie
             determine
             on
             which
             side
             the
             sence
             of
             the
             scripture
             bendeth
             ,
             and
             then
             I
             doubte
             not
             but
             you
             shall
             winne
             the
             day
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               My
               drifte
               is
               to
               make
               the
               reader
               see
               that
               the
               catholike
               faith
               hath
               true
               grounde
               in
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ▪
               and
               if
               you
               or
               anie
               other
               will
               shewe
               the
               same
               for
               your
               newe
               doctrine
               ,
               the
               reader
               must
               necessarilie
               see
               that
               he
               must
               finde
               somes
               meanes
               to
               knowe
               to
               whether
               side
               the
               true
               sence
               of
               the
               scriptures
               doth
               trulie
               agree
               :
               And
               if
               he
               finde
               that
               the
               Pope
               who
               is
               cheife
               &
               head
               of
               all
               those
               to
               whom
               our
               Sauiour
               sayde
               ,
               
                 he
                 that
                 heareth
                 you
                 ,
                 heareth
                 me
                 ▪
              
               geueth
               sentence
               for
               the
               allegations
               on
               the
               catholicke
               side
               (
               as
               you
               confesse
               ,
               there
               is
               no
               doubte
               but
               he
               will
               )
               If
               he
               haue
               anie
               true
               care
               of
               his
               soule
               ,
               he
               will
               beleeue
               and
               followe
               that
               parte
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               For
               thus
               you
               carrie
               the
               matter
               ,
               when
               both
               parties
               haue
               brought
               scriptures
               for
               themselues
            
             
             
             out
             the
             letter
             of
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             not
             opposinge
             the
             letter
             to
             the
             sence
             as
             you
             falselie
             say
             I
             meane
             ;
             but
             seekinge
             and
             takinge
             the
             sence
             from
             the
             letter
             onlie
             ?
             Is
             not
             this
             your
             doctrine
             ,
             in
             this
             verie
             section
             ?
             you
             cannot
             denie
             it
             vnlesse
             you
             haue
             a
             face
             to
             say
             and
             vnsay
             at
             euerie
             turne
             .
             Cast
             vp
             therefore
             once
             more
             your
             owne
             cardes
             ,
             and
             see
             what
             other
             Iudge
             you
             make
             of
             controuersies
             besides
             the
             onlie
             wordes
             of
             scripture
             .
             Therefore
             either
             blushe
             your selfe
             ,
             or
             if
             your
             face
             be
             so
             brasen
             that
             you
             cannot
             ,
             bidd
             some
             other
             blush
             for
             you
             ,
             that
             you
             either
             vnderstande
             not
             your
             owne
             doctrine
             ,
             or
             are
             ashamed
             to
             acknoweledge
             and
             maintaine
             it
             .
             I
             knowe
             to
             what
             end
             is
             all
             this
             florishe
             of
             wordes
             ;
             to
             raise
             vppe
             a
             little
             smoake
             before
             your
             readers
             eies
             ,
             that
             you
             may
             steale
             away
             and
             leaue
             the
             difficultie
             (
             which
             you
             knowe
             presseth
             you
             harde
             )
             vutouched
             ;
             you
             shall
             not
             scape
             so
             I
             wisse
             .
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             If
             then
             there
             appeare
             a
             ●arre
             in
             the
             scriptures
             that
             some
             of
             them
             are
             opposed
             to
             others
             ,
             as
             it
             fell
             out
             betweene
             the
             auncient
             Bishoppes
             and
             the
             Arrians
             ,
             betweene
             the
             Catholikes
             and
             Donatists
             ,
             betweene
             Pelagians
             and
             godlie
             teachers
             ,
             and
             nowe
             betweene
             you
             and
             vs
             ,
             that
             on
             both
             sides
             they
             are
             produced
             ,
             a
             iudge
             must
             be
             sought
             for
             to
             reconcile
             them
             .
             Who
             is
             that
             ?
             not
             a
             Christian
             ,
             for
             he
             is
             partie
             on
             the
             one
             side
             or
             the
             other
             ,
             not
             a
             pagan
             ,
             he
             knoweth
             not
             the
             misteries
             of
             Christianitie
             ,
             not
             a
             Iewe
             for
             he
             is
             an
             enemie
             to
             Christian
             Baptisme
             :
             on
             Earth
             there
             can
             be
             founde
             
             noe
             iudgment
             ,
             saith
             Optatus
             .
             But
             why
             doe
             we
             knocke
             at
             heauen
             when
             we
             haue
             in
             the
             Gospell
             his
             testament
             ?
             for
             here
             earthlie
             thinges
             may
             be
             compared
             to
             heauenlie
             .
             See
             howe
             we
             may
             come
             to
             the
             true
             sence
             ,
             not
             by
             seekinge
             vnto
             the
             Pope
             ,
             
             not
             by
             restinge
             vppon
             determinations
             of
             councels
             ,
             not
             by
             settinge
             on
             Traditions
             ,
             but
             by
             flyinge
             vnto
             the
             Testament
             .
             For
             as
             the
             same
             Optatus
             goeth
             on
             ,
             Christ
             hath
             dealt
             with
             vs
             as
             an
             earthlie
             Father
             ,
             who
             hauinge
             manie
             children
             ruleth
             them
             all
             so
             longe
             as
             he
             liueth
             ,
             noe
             testament
             so
             longe
             is
             necessarie
             :
             euen
             so
             Christ
             so
             longe
             as
             he
             was
             present
             vppon
             earth
             (
             althoughe
             nowe
             he
             be
             not
             wantinge
             )
             gaue
             in
             charge
             vnto
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             whatsoeuer
             for
             the
             tyme
             was
             necessarie
             .
             But
             as
             an
             earthlie
             father
             feelinge
             himselfe
             in
             the
             consines
             of
             death
             ,
             fearinge
             after
             his
             decease
             ;
             his
             children
             will
             contend●
             and
             breake
             peace
             ,
             calleth
             witnesses
             and
             from
             his
             dyinge
             breast
             draweth
             his
             will
             into
             lastinge
             tables
             ;
             and
             if
             there
             fall
             out
             anie
             contention
             amonge
             the
             brethren
             ,
             they
             goe
             not
             to
             his
             tombe
             ,
             but
             seeke
             his
             testament
             ,
             and
             so
             he
             that
             quietly
             resteth
             in
             his
             tombe
             ,
             speaketh
             still
             from
             the
             tables
             as
             if
             he
             were
             aliue
             .
             He
             whose
             testament
             we
             haue
             is
             in
             heauen
             ,
             therefore
             lett
             his
             will
             be
             sought
             for
             in
             his
             gospell
             as
             in
             a
             testament
             ,
             for
             these
             thinges
             which
             presentlie
             ye●
             doe
             ,
             he
             foresawe
             that
             yee
             would
             doe
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Because
               these
               sayinges
               of
               Optatus
               ,
               haue
               the
               same
               meaninge
               with
               that
               of
               S.
               Aug
               which
               imediatlie
               followeth
               ,
               it
               shall
               there
               appeare
               howe
               litle
               they
               serue
               your
               turne
               .
               Here
               are
               onlie
               to
               be
               noted
               these
               wordes
               of
               his
               .
               On
               earth
               there
               is
               founde
               noe
               iudge
               :
               By
               which
               wordes
               he
               excludeth
               not
               all
               iudgment
               vppon
               earth
               ,
               for
               so
               should
               he
               exclude
               the
               testament
               also
               it selfe
               ,
               but
               he
               excludeth
               all
               earthlie
               or
               humane
               iudgment
               as
               vnfitt
               and
               vnable
               to
               decide
               differencies
               of
               faith
               ,
               of
               which
               sorte
               the
               iudgment
               of
               the
               churche
               is
               
               not
               .
               For
               shee
               is
               the
               piller
               and
               ground
               of
               truth
               perpetuallie
               
               assisted
               by
               the
               holy
               Ghost
               ,
               which
               teacheth
               and
               suggesteth
               to
               her
               all
               truth
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               S.
               August
               :
               runneth
               the
               verie
               same
               course
               &
            
             
             
               almost
               vseth
               the
               same
               wordes
               as
               if
               he
               had
               taken
               them
               out
               of
               Optatus
               ?
               we
               are
               brethren
               (
               saith
               he
               )
               why
               doe
               we
               striue
               ,
               our
               father
               died
               not
               intestate
               ,
               he
               hath
               made
               a
               testament
               ,
               and
               so
               died
               ;
               men
               doe
               striue
               aboute
               the
               goods
               of
               the
               dead
               ,
               till
               the
               testament
               be
               brought
               foorth
               ,
               when
               that
               is
               brought
               ,
               they
               yeeld
               to
               haue
               it
               opened
               ,
               and
               read
               ;
               the
               iudge
               doth
               hearken
               ,
               the
               counsellours
               be
               silent
               ,
               the
               crier
               biddeth
               peace
               ,
               all
               the
               people
               are
               attentiue
               that
               the
               wordes
               of
               the
               dead
               man
               may
               be
               read
               and
               heard
               ,
               he
               lyeth
               voide
               of
               life
               and
               feelinge
               in
               his
               graue
               ,
               and
               his
               wordes
               preuaile
               .
               Christe
               doth
               sitt
               in
               heauen
               ,
               and
               is
               his
               testament
               gainsayde
               ?
               open
               it
               ,
               lett
               vs
               reade
               it
               ,
               we
               are
               brethren
               ,
               why
               doe
               we
               striue
               ?
               let
               our
               mindes
               be
               pacified
               ,
               our
               father
               hath
               not
               lefte
               vs
               without
               a
               testament
               ,
               he
               that
               made
               the
               testament
               is
               liuinge
               for
               euer
               ,
               he
               doth
               heare
               our
               wordes
               ,
               he
               doth
               knowe
               his
               owne
               worde
               ,
               why
               doe
               we
               striue
               ?
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               S.
               Aug
               :
               by
               these
               plaine
               wordes
               of
               the
               spalme
               ▪
               
                 Reminis●entur
                 &
                 conuertentur
                 ad
                 Dominum
                 omnes
                 fines
                 terrae
                 .
                 Et
                 adorabunt
                 in
                 conspect●
                 eius
                 vniuersae
                 familiae
                 genti
                 〈…〉
                 :
              
               as
               by
               the
               confessed
               testament
               of
               the
               father
               ,
               prooueth
               that
               the
               Donatists
               haue
               noe
               right
               to
               the
               inheritance
               of
               the
               churche
               (
               which
               they
               contrarie
               to
               the
               testament
               of
               God
               expressed
               in
               the
               psalme
               )
               say
               was
               onlie
               in
               a
               corner
               of
               the
               world
               amongst
               them
               .
               Who
               notwithstandinge
               were
               not
               
               come
               to
               that
               degree
               of
               sēclesnes
               ,
               as
               to
               say
               the
               church
               was
               inuisible
               as
               the
               protestants
               doe
               .
               Iustlie
               therefore
               did
               S.
               Aug
               :
               prouoke
               the
               Donatists
               in
               this
               pointe
               to
               the
               tryall
               of
               the
               testament
               ;
               as
               also
               the
               catholikes
               doe
               the
               protestantes
               in
               the
               pointe
               of
               the
               reall
               presence
               ,
               and
               diuers
               others
               .
               Which
               tryall
               notwithstandinge
               is
               not
               sufficient
               where
               either
               scripture
               is
               opposed
               to
               scripture
               ,
               or
               it
               is
               not
               agreed
               vppon
               which
               is
               the
               scripture
               it selfe
               ,
               as
               it
               happeneth
               betweene
               the
               catholikes
               and
               protestants
               ,
               as
               shall
               ●ore
               amplie
               appeare
               by
               and
               by
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               And
               S.
               Ambrose
               more
               auncient
               then
               both
               ,
               to
            
             
             
               Gratian
               the
               Emperour
               ;
               Beleeue
               not
               Emperour
               our
               Argument
               ,
               and
               our
               disputation
               ,
               let
               vs
               aske
               the
               Scriptures
               ,
               let
               vs
               aske
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               let
               vs
               aske
               the
               Prophets
               ,
               let
               vs
               aske
               Christ
               ,
               what
               shoulde
               I
               adde
               more
               ,
               let
               vs
               aske
               the
               Father
               ,
               of
               whose
               honour
               they
               say
               they
               are
               Iealous
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Sr.
               you
               alwaies
               speake
               besides
               the
               purpose
               .
               The
               question
               betweene
               you
               and
               me
               ,
               is
               not
               whether
               the
               scriptures
               vnderstoode
               in
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               church
               are
               not
               sufficient
               to
               decide
               anie
               controuersie
               in
               faith
               ;
               and
               namelie
               that
               whereof
               S.
               Amb.
               disputeth
               ,
               which
               is
               not
               denyed
               vnto
               you
               :
               but
               whether
               the
               scriptures
               lefte
               vnto
               the
               interpretation
               of
               either
               party
               contendinge
               ,
               are
               a
               sufficient
               iudge
               to
               end
               all
               controuersies
               in
               faith
               .
               In
               which
               question
               I
               defende
               the
               negatiue
               ,
               and
               you
               the
               affirmatiue
               if
               you
               will
               yett
               contend
               anie
               more
               .
               These
               testimonies
               therefore
               of
               the
               fathers
               aswell
               of
               S.
               Ambrose
               as
               those
               that
               went
               before
               and
               also
               that
               followe
               ,
               are
               alleaged
               beside
               the
               question
               ,
               and
               altogether
               impertinentlie
               as
               all
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               sayinges
               for
               the
               moste
               parte
               are
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             A
             Gentile
             cometh
             and
             saith
             I
             woulde
             be
             a
             
             Christian
             ,
             but
             I
             knowe
             not
             which
             side
             to
             cleaue
             
             vnto
             ,
             manie
             dissentions
             are
             amonge
             you
             ,
             and
             I
             cannot
             tell
             which
             opinion
             to
             holde
             ,
             euerie
             one
             saith
             ,
             I
             speake
             the
             truth
             ,
             and
             the
             scriptures
             on
             both
             sides
             are
             pretended
             ,
             so
             that
             I
             knowe
             not
             whom
             to
             beleeue
             .
             To
             this
             Chrisostome
             replyeth
             ;
             trulie
             this
             maketh
             much
             for
             vs
             ,
             for
             well
             might
             you
             be
             troubled
             if
             we
             should
             say
             we
             rely
             vppon
             reason
             ,
             but
             seeinge
             we
             take
             the
             scriptures
             which
             are
             so
             true
             and
             playne
             ,
             it
             will
             be
             an
             easie
             matter
             for
             you
             to
             iudge
             ;
             if
             anie
             consent
             vnto
             them
             ,
             he
             is
             a
             Christian
             ,
             if
             anie
             goe
             against
             them
             ,
             he
             is
             farr
             from
             this
             rule
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               allegation
               of
               S.
               Chrisost
               .
               is
               not
               onlie
               impertinent
               as
               all
               the
               rest
               are
               ,
               but
               fraudulent
               and
               proceedinge
               of
               a
               minde
               not
               willinge
               to
               finde
               out
               the
               truth
               ,
               but
               to
               deceiue
               the
               reader
               For
               the
               wordes
               imediatlie
               followinge
               and
               lefte
               out
               by
               you
               (
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               )
               propose
               directlie
               the
               question
               which
               nowe
               is
               in
               hande
               ,
               and
               the
               answere
               thereof
               followeth
               also
               consequentlie
               .
               
                 Quid
                 igitur
              
               (
               saith
               S.
               Chrisost
               .
               )
               
                 What
                 therefore
                 if
                 he
                 say
                 ,
                 that
                 the
                 scripture
                 hath
                 in
                 this
                 sort
                 :
                 and
                 thou
                 sayest
                 another
                 thinge
                 ,
                 explicatinge
                 the
                 scriptures
                 otherwise
                 ,
                 and
                 drawinge
                 theire
                 sence
                 to
                 fauour
                 thee
                 ?
              
               Loe
               here
               the
               question
               in
               controuersie
               betweene
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               and
               me
               .
               Howe
               doth
               S.
               Chrisostome
               answere
               it
               ?
               doth
               he
               send
               vs
               to
               the
               scriptures
               for
               decidinge
               thereof
               ?
               no
               such
               thinge
               ,
               but
               he
               geueth
               diuerse
               rules
               or
               markes
               whereby
               he
               that
               is
               in
               doubte
               whether
               parte
               to
               followe
               ,
               may
               iudge
               who
               hath
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               scriptures
               .
               And
               after
               one
               or
               two
               rules
               he
               addeth
               this
               :
               
                 Vt
                 autem
                 manifestius
                 dicam
                 :
                 But
                 that
                 I
                 may
                 speake
                 more
                 plainlie
                 ;
                 they
              
               (
               to
               witt
               heretikes
               )
               
                 haue
                 certayne
                 men
                 of
                 whom
                 they
                 are
                 named
                 ▪
                 for
                 the
                 sect
                 is
                 named
                 of
                 the
              
               
               
                 author
                 ,
                 but
                 wee
              
               (
               to
               witt
               the
               catholikes
               )
               
                 haue
                 not
                 our
                 name
                 of
                 anie
                 man
              
               And
               a
               little
               after
               answeringe
               to
               the
               same
               question
               more
               fullie
               he
               addeth
               .
               What
               ?
               are
               we
               cutt
               off
               from
               the
               church
               ?
               haue
               we
               Archeheretickes
               ?
               are
               we
               surnamed
               of
               anie
               man
               ?
               haue
               we
               a
               captayne
               (
               anie
               particular
               man
               )
               as
               these
               haue
               Marcion
               ,
               these
               Manicheus
               ,
               a
               thirde
               Arrius
               ,
               and
               other
               heresies
               haue
               theire
               sect
               masters
               .
               (
               As
               Lutherans
               haue
               Luther
               ,
               Caluinists
               haue
               Caluin
               and
               the
               like
               )
               .
               
                 And
                 though
                 we
                 haue
                 the
                 name
                 of
                 anie
                 one
                 ,
                 ●et
                 is
                 is
                 not
                 of
                 the
                 father
                 of
                 anie
                 heresie
                 ,
                 but
                 of
                 those
                 who
                 are
                 our
                 pastours
                 and
                 doe
                 gouuerne
                 the
                 churche
                 .
                 We
                 haue
                 not
                 Maisters
                 vppon
                 Earth
                 (
                 as
                 all
                 heretikes
                 haue
                 )
                 God
                 forbidde
                 ,
                 we
                 haue
                 one
                 in
                 heauen
                 .
                 Thou
                 wilte
                 say
                 that
                 they
                 pretende
                 the
                 same
                 .
                 But
                 they
                 haue
                 a
                 name
                 that
                 accuseth
                 them
                 ,
                 and
                 giueth
                 them
                 theire
                 names
                 .
              
               Thus
               farr
               S.
               Chrisostome
               ,
               whereby
               it
               appeareth
               not
               onlie
               how
               impertinent
               or
               fraudulent
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               is
               in
               his
               allegations
               ;
               but
               also
               of
               what
               moment
               the
               auncient
               fathers
               esteemed
               the
               argument
               taken
               from
               the
               surnames
               of
               sects
               ,
               for
               the
               discouerie
               of
               theire
               heresies
               and
               false
               doctrines
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Loe
             in
             these
             cases
             wherein
             scriptures
             were
             produced
             on
             both
             sides
             the
             fathers
             fledd
             for
             resolution
             vnto
             other
             scriptures
             ,
             where
             it
             appeareth
             your
             inferrence
             to
             be
             without
             coherence
             ,
             that
             if
             there
             be
             not
             a
             iudge
             without
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             God
             hath
             not
             prouided
             sufficient
             meanes
             to
             saue
             mens
             soules
             ,
             seeinge
             that
             composinge
             of
             controuersies
             ,
             reconcilinge
             of
             differencies
             ,
             clearinge
             of
             doubtes
             ,
             manifestation
             of
             truth
             ,
             is
             not
             from
             without
             to
             be
             fetched
             ,
             but
             in
             the
             testament
             it selfe
             to
             be
             learned
             ,
             that
             we
             may
             knowe
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             them
             onlie
             to
             be
             the
             supreme
             iudge
             from
             whence
             decision
             of
             doubtes
             in
             matters
             of
             faith
             is
             
             to
             be
             deriued
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Marke
               iudicious
               reader
               whether
               this
               be
               anie
               other
               thinge
               ,
               then
               that
               which
               I
               sayde
               in
               this
               section
               .
               
                 One
                 chie●e
                 ground
                 of
                 the
                 prosestants
                 doctrine
                 to
                 be
                 ,
                 that
                 the
                 wordes
                 of
                 the
                 scripture
                 are
                 the
                 iudge
                 of
                 all
                 controuersies
                 .
              
               For
               the
               which
               Mr.
               Pilk
               :
               hotly
               reprehendeth
               me
               of
               fraude
               and
               falsehodde
               .
               See
               his
               wordes
               a
               little
               before
               at
               this
               marke
               †
               in
               the
               margent
               ,
               and
               maruell
               at
               his
               witt
               ,
               iudgment
               and
               memorie
               :
               Nowe
               to
               the
               purpose
               .
               Noe
               one
               of
               all
               the
               testimonies
               alleaged
               by
               you
               doth
               say
               ,
               that
               where
               scriptures
               are
               produced
               by
               both
               partes
               ,
               they
               are
               sufficient
               to
               decide
               the
               controuersie
               .
               Thoughe
               I
               doe
               not
               denie
               ,
               but
               for
               the
               moste
               part
               the
               inequallity
               is
               so
               greate
               in
               the
               catholike
               partie
               (
               as
               it
               also
               falleth
               out
               in
               the
               cause
               betweene
               the
               protestāts
               and
               catholikes
               at
               this
               day
               )
               that
               anie
               man
               of
               indifferent
               witt
               ,
               iudgment
               and
               desire
               to
               find
               out
               the
               truth
               ,
               may
               see
               on
               whether
               side
               the
               scripture
               standeth
               .
               But
               that
               they
               are
               not
               absolutelie
               sufficient
               where
               there
               is
               obstinacie
               on
               anie
               side
               ,
               I
               shall
               make
               your selfe
               to
               cōfesse
               (
               thoughe
               peruerse
               enoughe
               )
               or
               else
               I
               shall
               much
               marueill
               ;
               &
               that
               by
               the
               verie
               example
               vsed
               by
               S.
               Optatus
               and
               S.
               Aug
               :
               and
               approoued
               here
               by
               your selfe
               .
               Put
               therefore
               the
               case
               ,
               that
               the
               children
               of
               a
               deceased
               father
               contend
               aboute
               the
               inheritance
               ,
               euerie
               one
               of
               them
               challenginge
               it
               as
               appertayninge
               to
               himselfe
               ,
               &
               in
               proofe
               or
               confirmation
               of
               his
               clayme
               alleageth
               the
               testament
               and
               will
               of
               his
               father
               ,
               which
               he
               protesteth
               to
               be
               cleare
               for
               him
               ,
               and
               against
               his
               competitours
               ,
               beinge
               rightlie
               vnderstoode
               ,
               persisting
               most
               stifly
               in
               his
               opinion
               and
               in
               deffence
               of
               his
               right
               clayme
               ,
               as
               he
               is
               perswaded
               .
               The
               case
               beinge
               putt
               thus
               (
               which
               is
               the
               verie
               same
               with
               ours
               in
               the
               controuersy
               of
               religion
               )
               will
               you
               say
               in
               the
               sinceritie
               of
               your
               hearte
               ,
               that
               the
               sole
               will
               or
               testament
               of
               the
               father
               is
               a
               sufficient
               iudge
               to
               decide
               this
               difference
               and
               to
               bringe
               the
               parties
               to
               an
               accorde
               ?
               And
               that
               there
               needeth
               not
               anie
               other
               iudge
               or
               arbiter
               to
               determine
               
               vppon
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               fathers
               will
               ,
               whereby
               they
               all
               pretende
               to
               make
               theire
               clayme
               ,
               and
               to
               grounde
               theire
               title
               ?
               you
               will
               not
               I
               thinke
               say
               ,
               yea
               ,
               to
               this
               question
               .
               And
               well
               I
               wote
               that
               were
               the
               case
               your
               owne
               betwixte
               your selfe
               &
               your
               bretheren
               concerninge
               a
               temporall
               inheritance
               ,
               experience
               (
               which
               though
               shee
               be
               the
               mistres
               of
               fooles
               ,
               is
               not
               for
               all
               that
               a
               foolish
               mistres
               )
               woulde
               teach
               you
               that
               it
               is
               a
               meere
               Paradoxe
               to
               maintayne
               that
               the
               sole
               testament
               of
               your
               deceased
               father
               ,
               could
               in
               this
               case
               decide
               the
               controuersie
               amongst
               you
               his
               disagreeinge
               children
               .
               So
               that
               the
               example
               brought
               by
               your selfe
               out
               of
               the
               fathers
               ,
               is
               prooued
               to
               make
               manifestlie
               against
               you
               .
            
             
               Which
               will
               yet
               be
               much
               more
               cleare
               ,
               if
               the
               case
               be
               putt
               as
               it
               is
               indeede
               with
               vs
               ,
               that
               these
               brethren
               doe
               not
               only
               contend
               aboute
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               theire
               fathers
               testament
               ,
               but
               also
               aboute
               the
               testament
               it selfe
               ;
               the
               one
               contestinge
               the
               whole
               writinge
               contayned
               in
               the
               booke
               vnder
               the
               title
               of
               his
               will
               to
               be
               his
               true
               testament
               ,
               another
               not
               receiuinge
               the
               whole
               ,
               contendeth
               diuers
               partes
               and
               parcells
               not
               to
               belonge
               therunto
               .
               And
               another
               yett
               reiectinge
               more
               ;
               as
               it
               falleth
               out
               betweene
               vs
               and
               the
               protestants
               ,
               Caluin
               castinge
               out
               of
               the
               testament
               of
               God
               ,
               fiue
               whole
               bookes
               besides
               some
               large
               partes
               of
               other
               bookes
               ,
               which
               the
               catholikes
               belieue
               to
               appertayn
               to
               his
               true
               testament
               .
               Luther
               reiectinge
               besides
               these
               ,
               diuerse
               other
               whole
               bookes
               .
               The
               case
               therefore
               beinge
               thus
               ,
               howe
               is
               it
               possible
               that
               the
               sole
               written
               testament
               of
               God
               shoulde
               decide
               the
               controuersie
               betweene
               these
               competitors
               ,
               and
               bring
               them
               to
               an
               accorde
               ?
               who
               doe
               not
               agree
               so
               much
               as
               in
               what
               bookes
               or
               writinges
               the
               testament
               is
               contayned
               ,
               so
               farre
               are
               they
               from
               beinge
               at
               accorde
               of
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               thereof
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               therefore
               no
               other
               thinge
               to
               say
               in
               this
               case
               ,
               that
               the
               scriptures
               must
               iudge
               all
               controuersies
               ,
               then
               to
               say
               that
               the
               controuersie
               it selfe
               ,
               must
               be
               iudge
               of
               
               the
               controuersie
               ,
               which
               is
               more
               then
               madnes
               to
               thinke
               .
               For
               the
               controuersie
               beinge
               not
               onlie
               what
               the
               scripture
               saith
               ,
               or
               meaneth
               ,
               but
               also
               what
               is
               scripture
               ,
               it
               is
               all
               one
               to
               say
               ,
               that
               scriptures
               must
               iudge
               and
               decide
               all
               controuersies
               ,
               and
               to
               say
               the
               controuersies
               themselues
               must
               decide
               all
               controuersies
               .
               Againe
               seeinge
               you
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               ,
               seeme
               to
               geue
               so
               much
               to
               holy
               scripture
               as
               to
               be
               able
               and
               sufficient
               to
               decide
               all
               doubtes
               and
               determine
               all
               differences
               in
               matter
               of
               faith
               ,
               Why
               doe
               you
               not
               hearken
               vnto
               them
               when
               they
               send
               you
               to
               the
               churche
               and
               to
               the
               pastours
               ,
               and
               doctours
               thereof
               ,
               as
               to
               liuelie
               iudges
               ,
               hauinge
               the
               keyes
               of
               knowledge
               to
               vnderstande
               the
               scriptures
               ?
               But
               you
               desiringe
               nothinge
               lesse
               then
               to
               come
               to
               a
               iust
               and
               competent
               tryall
               of
               your
               cause
               ,
               holde
               your selues
               close
               to
               that
               principle
               ,
               by
               which
               the
               most
               detestable
               ,
               vile
               ,
               and
               contemptible
               heretike
               that
               euer
               was
               may
               maintaine
               his
               heresie
               ,
               without
               beinge
               conuinced
               thereof
               ;
               as
               I
               toulde
               you
               before
               of
               Legat
               ,
               which
               instance
               you
               can
               neuer
               answere
               not
               satisfy
               ,
               and
               which
               onlie
               is
               sufficient
               if
               you
               were
               not
               obstinatly
               peruerse
               )
               to
               make
               you
               ashamed
               to
               maintaine
               so
               senceles
               a
               Paradox
               ,
               and
               so
               euidentlie
               contradicted
               by
               perpetuall
               experience
               in
               all
               ages
               .
            
             
               Your
               last
               shifte
               or
               euasiō
               of
               interpretinge
               scripture
               by
               scripture
               ,
               vnles
               there
               be
               some
               agreement
               ,
               or
               certaintie
               of
               the
               scripture
               interpretinge
               ,
               more
               then
               of
               the
               scripture
               interpreted
               ,
               which
               abstractinge
               from
               the
               iudgmēt
               of
               the
               churche
               cannot
               be
               had
               ,
               is
               a
               meere
               mockerie
               ,
               and
               like
               as
               if
               a
               man
               would
               measure
               one
               peece
               of
               veluett
               the
               measure
               whereof
               is
               as
               vncertaine
               as
               that
               of
               the
               former
               .
            
             
               And
               to
               conclude
               this
               section
               ,
               it
               beinge
               in
               question
               betweene
               the
               catholikes
               and
               protestants
               who
               is
               to
               be
               iudge
               of
               controuersies
               in
               faith
               (
               yea
               the
               roote
               and
               key
               of
               all
               controuersies
               ,
               which
               beinge
               ended
               or
               decided
               all
               the
               rest
               would
               haue
               easie
               decision
               )
               you
               affirminge
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               this
               iudge
               and
               pretend
               to
               prooue
               this
               by
               scripture
               ,
               as
               al
               other
               thinges
               to
               be
               
               beleeued
               ,
               you
               are
               bounde
               by
               your
               owne
               doctrine
               ,
               to
               shewe
               it
               out
               of
               scripture
               ,
               which
               when
               you
               shall
               doe
               ,
               we
               will
               yeelde
               vnto
               you
               in
               all
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               tontrouersies
               betweene
               vs.
               But
               seeinge
               you
               can
               neuer
               doe
               this
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               not
               yeelde
               to
               vs
               ,
               shewinge
               you
               out
               of
               manifest
               scripture
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               to
               decide
               controuersies
               ?
               You
               say
               the
               church
               is
               a
               partie
               and
               therefore
               no
               competent
               iudge
               .
               But
               this
               hauinge
               been
               the
               cauill
               of
               all
               condemned
               heretikes
               ,
               and
               as
               truly
               alleaged
               by
               them
               as
               by
               you
               ,
               this
               plea
               is
               no
               more
               receiueable
               in
               you
               then
               in
               them
               .
               And
               tell
               me
               I
               pray
               you
               ,
               the
               kinge
               is
               he
               not
               partie
               in
               all
               pleas
               of
               felonie
               or
               treason
               that
               are
               brought
               into
               his
               courtes
               ?
               yes
               verilie
               .
               And
               yett
               none
               euer
               yet
               thought
               of
               anie
               such
               plea
               ,
               as
               to
               appeale
               from
               the
               iudgment
               geuen
               in
               his
               name
               ,
               and
               by
               his
               soueraigne
               authoritie
               in
               such
               cases
               :
               Albeit
               the
               iudgments
               geuen
               in
               his
               courtes
               are
               farr
               frō
               beinge
               so
               assuredly
               iuste
               &
               equitable
               as
               are
               the
               iudgments
               of
               the
               church
               ,
               which
               hath
               the
               infallible
               promise
               of
               the
               holy
               ghostes
               assistance
               in
               her
               decisions
               and
               determinations
               .
               You
               are
               therefore
               fast
               taken
               which
               way
               soeuer
               you
               turne
               your
               selfe
               ;
               and
               this
               inference
               of
               myne
               :
               
                 That
                 if
                 there
                 be
                 no
                 other
                 iudge
                 of
                 controuersies
                 besides
                 the
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 God
                 hath
                 not
                 prouided
                 sufficient
                 meanes
                 to
                 sa●e
                 mens
                 soules
                 ,
              
               which
               you
               say
               is
               without
               coherence
               ,
               doth
               nessarilie
               followe
               vppon
               that
               supposition
               ,
               that
               heretikes
               and
               namelie
               protestants
               ,
               doe
               produce
               scriptures
               ,
               in
               proofe
               of
               theire
               false
               doctrine
               ,
               as
               catholikes
               doe
               for
               theire
               orthodoxe
               beliefe
               ,
               if
               there
               be
               no
               other
               iudge
               to
               decide
               the
               controuersie
               but
               only
               the
               scripture
               ,
               which
               inference
               you
               haue
               laboured
               (
               but
               all
               in
               vaine
               )
               to
               ouerthrowe
               as
               the
               indifferent
               reader
               will
               easilie
               iudge
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVLL
             SECTION
             6.
             
          
        
         
           Fiftlie
           that
           whereas
           before
           I
           can
           prooue
           anie
           point
           of
           Christian
           beleife
           by
           scriptures
           ,
           I
           should
           first
           by
           good
           order
           prooue
           that
           there
           is
           an
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           and
           secondlie
           in
           
           what
           bookes
           of
           the
           Bible
           it
           is
           contayned
           :
           yet
           because
           neither
           of
           these
           two
           canne
           be
           prooued
           by
           scriptures
           ,
           vnlesse
           we
           beleeue
           some
           scripture
           without
           proofe
           ,
           therfore
           that
           I
           may
           prooue
           these
           pointes
           of
           faith
           wherein
           the
           Romane
           Catholicke
           churche
           doth
           differ
           from
           the
           protestants
           ,
           by
           holy
           scriptures
           (
           which
           our
           aduersaries
           vrge
           me
           vnto
           )
           I
           must
           necessarily
           to
           satisfy
           theire
           disorderlie
           desire
           ,
           proceede
           disorderlie
           ,
           and
           suppose
           that
           for
           truth
           without
           proofe
           ,
           which
           requireth
           most
           to
           be
           prooued
           .
           I
           say
           without
           proofe
           ,
           if
           no
           proofe
           be
           good
           but
           that
           which
           is
           made
           out
           of
           scripture
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             All
             questions
             are
             not
             to
             be
             disputed
             of
             ,
             saith
             Aristotle
             ,
             but
             only
             those
             whereof
             man
             desireth
             a
             reason
             ,
             that
             is
             not
             worthie
             of
             punishment
             or
             lacketh
             sence
             .
             For
             if
             anie
             demaunde
             whether
             God
             is
             to
             be
             worshipped
             ,
             or
             our
             parents
             to
             be
             loued
             ,
             he
             deserueth
             stripes
             ,
             or
             whether
             snowe
             be
             white
             ,
             he
             lacketh
             sence
             .
             This
             question
             of
             yours
             ,
             whether
             the
             scripture
             be
             gods
             worde
             ,
             tendeth
             to
             Atheisme
             and
             deserueth
             punishment
             ,
             rather
             then
             answere
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               precedent
               question
               ,
               to
               auoyde
               the
               authority
               of
               the
               churches
               iudgment
               expreslie
               testified
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               you
               laboured
               to
               maintaine
               this
               paradox
               ,
               that
               notwithstandinge
               scriptures
               were
               produced
               for
               either
               partie
               of
               anie
               controuersie
               ,
               yett
               the
               controuersie
               might
               be
               fullie
               ended
               and
               decided
               by
               the
               scriptures
               alone
               ,
               without
               anie
               other
               iudge
               decidinge
               or
               determininge
               whether
               partie
               vsed
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               
               meaninge
               of
               the
               same
               scriptures
               .
               Nowe
               in
               this
               section
               to
               auoyde
               the
               Authoritie
               of
               Traditiōs
               expreslie
               also
               taught
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               you
               goe
               aboute
               to
               maintaine
               another
               paradox
               no
               lesse
               improbable
               ,
               to
               witt
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               so
               clearlie
               manifest
               not
               only
               that
               there
               is
               a
               written
               worde
               of
               God
               ,
               or
               holie
               scripture
               ,
               but
               also
               in
               what
               booke
               it
               is
               contayned
               ,
               that
               to
               moue
               question
               in
               either
               tendeth
               to
               Atheisme
               ,
               and
               deserueth
               punishment
               rather
               then
               answere
               ,
               lett
               vs
               see
               howe
               you
               make
               good
               this
               your
               paradox
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               But
               least
               you
               shoulde
               triumphe
               before
               the
               victorie
               ,
               I
               answere
               ,
               that
               as
               in
               all
               humane
               artes
               there
               be
               certain
               principles
               ,
               which
               are
               knowne
               of
               thēselues
               ,
               without
               anie
               farther
               demōstration
               :
               So
               the
               verties
               that
               are
               contained
               in
               the
               Cannon
               of
               the
               Bible
               ,
               are
               the
               principles
               &
               foundations
               of
               diuinitie
               ,
               and
               receiue
               not
               authoritie
               by
               other
               thinges
            
             
             
               whereby
               they
               may
               be
               demonstrated
               ,
               saith
               Cameracensis
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Ignorance
               in
               the
               rudimēts
               of
               Philosophie
               maketh
               you
               abuse
               your
               tearmes
               egregiouslie
               .
               For
               what
               principles
               of
               artes
               or
               sciences
               (
               I
               pray
               you
               )
               are
               those
               that
               are
               beleeued
               for
               themselues
               ?
               none
               certainlie
               .
               For
               the
               principles
               of
               all
               naturall
               knowledge
               ,
               are
               either
               euidentlie
               knowne
               by
               the
               light
               of
               nature
               ,
               and
               not
               beleeued
               ,
               or
               they
               are
               beleeued
               for
               the
               authoritie
               of
               a
               higher
               knowledge
               ,
               and
               not
               beleeued
               for
               themselues
               .
               The
               verities
               contayned
               in
               the
               Bible
               are
               beleeued
               ,
               not
               for
               themselues
               but
               for
               the
               authoritie
               of
               God
               reueilinge
               them
               ,
               who
               onlie
               is
               truth
               it selfe
               ,
               and
               beleeued
               for
               himselfe
               ,
               of
               whome
               and
               from
               whome
               they
               receiue
               authoritie
               ,
               and
               haue
               it
               not
               of
               themselues
               as
               you
               falselie
               affirme
               .
               But
               you
               say
               they
               cannot
               be
               demonstrated
               by
               other
               principles
               .
               It
               is
               true
               for
               ●●●e
               but
               the
               phreneticall
               or
               phanaticall
               Manicheis
               
               did
               desire
               or
               expecte
               demonstration
               in
               matter
               of
               faith
               .
               Which
               as
               S.
               August
               .
               saith
               ,
               is
               grounded
               vppon
               
               authoritie
               ,
               as
               knowledge
               is
               vppon
               reason
               ,
               we
               demaunde
               therefore
               of
               you
               some
               authoritie
               whereby
               we
               may
               reasonablie
               beleeue
               the
               verities
               contayned
               in
               the
               Bible
               to
               haue
               been
               reueiled
               by
               God
               ,
               without
               which
               authoritie
               we
               cannot
               securelie
               beleeue
               them
               to
               be
               gods
               worde
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Then
             if
             the
             scriptures
             be
             principles
             ,
             as
             it
             is
             confessed
             on
             both
             sides
             ,
             it
             followeth
             that
             they
             are
             immediate
             &
             indemonstrable
             ,
             as
             al
             other
             principles
             are
             in
             theire
             sciēces
             ,
             where
             of
             they
             are
             principles
             ,
             but
             these
             more
             thē
             others
             ,
             because
             they
             are
             
               primae
               veritatis
            
             .
             And
             as
             the
             first
             good
             for
             it selfe
             is
             to
             be
             loued
             ,
             so
             the
             first
             truth
             for
             it selfe
             
             is
             to
             be
             beleeued
             saith
             Aquinas
             .
             And
             therefore
             it
             is
             so
             farr
             from
             beinge
             requisit
             to
             prooue
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             that
             S.
             Aug.
             saith
             they
             are
             not
             to
             be
             hearde
             ,
             who
             shoulde
             say
             ,
             howe
             doost
             thou
             knowe
             these
             bookes
             to
             be
             ministred
             vnto
             mankinde
             by
             the
             spiritie
             of
             the
             onlie
             and
             most
             true
             God
             ,
             for
             this
             thinge
             is
             especiallie
             to
             be
             beleeued
             ?
             Whereupon
             in
             another
             place
             speakinge
             of
             
             the
             faith
             wherewith
             we
             beleeue
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             he
             willeth
             vs
             to
             followe
             those
             ,
             who
             inuite
             vs
             first
             to
             beleeue
             that
             which
             we
             are
             not
             able
             to
             conceiue
             ,
             that
             beinge
             made
             more
             strōge
             in
             faith
             ,
             we
             may
             attaine
             to
             vnderstande
             that
             which
             we
             beleeue
             ,
             God
             himselfe
             confirminge
             and
             inwardlie
             inligthenninge
             our
             mindes
             and
             not
             men
             .
             This
             is
             sufficient
             to
             shewe
             that
             neither
             arte
             nor
             order
             requireth
             at
             your
             handes
             to
             prooue
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             as
             you
             disorderlie
             imagine
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               scriptures
               or
               verities
               conteyned
               in
               them
               are
               confessed
               to
               be
               principles
               in
               respect
               of
               all
               Theologicall
               conclusions
               deduced
               from
               them
               ,
               and
               therefore
               in
               respect
               of
               them
               they
               neede
               no
               farther
               proofe
               to
               anie
               christian
               diuine
               that
               beleeueth
               them
               to
               be
               the
               worde
               of
               God.
               But
               they
               are
               not
               principles
               in
               respect
               of
               the
               articles
               of
               our
               faith
               in
               generall
               ,
               but
               are
               themselues
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               the
               same
               authoritie
               of
               God
               reueylinge
               ,
               as
               all
               other
               articles
               of
               faith
               are
               .
            
             
               And
               that
               they
               are
               not
               necessarie
               principles
               of
               the
               articles
               of
               our
               ●aith
               ,
               it
               is
               manifest
               by
               that
               ,
               before
               the
               scriptures
               were
               written
               ,
               the
               churche
               of
               God
               beleeued
               manie
               of
               the
               same
               articles
               which
               nowe
               it
               beleeueth
               .
               Therfore
               when
               you
               say
               the
               scriptures
               or
               verities
               contained
               in
               them
               ,
               are
               
                 primae
                 veritatis
              
               ,
               if
               ignorance
               (
               thoughe
               grosse
               and
               not
               to
               be
               excused
               in
               a
               doctour
               of
               diuinitie
               )
               doth
               not
               excuse
               you
               ,
               you
               will
               make
               the
               scriptures
               not
               onlie
               to
               be
               gods
               worde
               ,
               but
               also
               to
               be
               God
               himselfe
               .
               For
               besides
               him
               there
               is
               no
               
                 prima
                 veritas
              
               which
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               it selfe
               ,
               as
               vppon
               better
               consideration
               (
               I
               thinke
               )
               you
               will
               not
               dare
               to
               denie
               .
            
             
               Seeinge
               therefore
               the
               scriptures
               are
               not
               
                 primae
                 veritatis
              
               or
               first
               truthe
               ,
               but
               the
               testimonies
               wordes
               or
               verities
               reueiled
               by
               the
               first
               truthe
               ,
               they
               are
               not
               ,
               euen
               by
               your
               owne
               grounde
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               themselues
               ,
               but
               for
               the
               truthe
               and
               authoritie
               of
               the
               first
               veritie
               God
               himselfe
               ,
               of
               whose
               reuelation
               we
               must
               haue
               sufficient
               grounde
               before
               we
               canne
               securelie
               and
               prudentlie
               beleeue
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               his
               worde
               .
               That
               which
               you
               bringe
               out
               of
               S.
               Thomas
               ,
               maketh
               euidentlie
               against
               you
               (
               so
               iudicious
               are
               you
               in
               your
               allegations
               .
               )
               For
               the
               scriptures
               beinge
               not
               God
               ,
               they
               are
               not
               the
               first
               truth
               ,
               and
               therefore
               not
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               themselues
               .
               S.
               Aug.
               in
               the
               first
               place
               maketh
               also
               against
               you
               ,
               sayinge
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               to
               be
               beleeued
               to
               bee
               of
               gods
               spiritt
               and
               not
               to
               be
               knowne
               .
               For
               to
               beleeue
               this
               he
               recurreth
               
               not
               to
               the
               scriptures
               themselues
               ,
               but
               to
               the
               authoritie
               which
               they
               had
               obtayned
               throughe
               the
               whole
               worlde
               .
               The
               second
               authoritie
               of
               S.
               Aug.
               is
               wholie
               impertinent
               to
               your
               purpose
               ,
               as
               the
               reader
               thoughe
               but
               of
               meane
               iudgmēt
               will
               easilie
               discerne
               .
               Hee
               sayinge
               nothinge
               that
               soundeth
               as
               if
               the
               scriptures
               were
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               themselues
               ,
               or
               without
               other
               authoritie
               .
               And
               therfore
               thus
               farr
               haue
               you
               saide
               nothinge
               that
               may
               satisfie
               this
               assertion
               of
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               that
               in
               the
               orderlie
               proceedinge
               in
               this
               present
               poincte
               ,
               the
               scriptures
               shoulde
               first
               be
               prooued
               :
               but
               you
               will
               peraduenture
               satisfie
               better
               hereafter
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Yett
             further
             to
             satisfy
             you
             I
             answere
             ,
             that
             the
             scriptures
             doe
             sufficientlie
             prooue
             thēselues
             ,
             and
             these
             and
             these
             bookes
             to
             be
             the
             scripture
             ,
             both
             by
             that
             inwarde
             light
             that
             is
             contained
             in
             them
             ,
             and
             that
             outwarde
             operation
             that
             they
             haue
             in
             vs.
             For
             first
             they
             are
             a
             lanterne
             to
             our
             feete
             ,
             and
             a
             light
             to
             our
             path
             ,
             a
             candle
             that
             shineth
             in
             a
             darke
             place
             .
             And
             as
             a
             light
             doth
             
             discouer
             those
             thinges
             that
             are
             in
             darkenes
             and
             demonstrateth
             also
             it selfe
             vnto
             the
             eies
             (
             saith
             Aug.
             )
             so
             doth
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             by
             that
             connatur
             all
             light
             that
             is
             in
             them
             ,
             manifest
             themselues
             vnto
             those
             ,
             whose
             vnderstandinge
             is
             enlightened
             to
             behoulde
             them
             .
             Which
             if
             you
             cannot
             perceiue
             ,
             desire
             God
             to
             remoue
             the
             scales
             from
             your
             eies
             ,
             as
             he
             did
             from
             Paules
             ;
             for
             this
             is
             a
             case
             so
             cleare
             that
             Stapleton
             graunteth
             it
             ,
             
               credenti
               ,
               scriptura
               seipsam
               probat
               &
               commendat
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               All
               this
               proueth
               noe
               other
               thinge
               ,
               then
               that
               to
               christians
               and
               catholikes
               who
               belieue
               the
               scriptures
               
               to
               be
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               and
               vnderstand
               it
               in
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               they
               haue
               all
               these
               properties
               of
               light
               ,
               lampe
               ,
               and
               lanterne
               ,
               and
               this
               is
               it
               which
               Stapleton
               expreslie
               saith
               ,
               if
               hou
               had
               taken
               but
               verie
               ordinarie
               heede
               to
               his
               wordes
               .
            
             
               But
               to
               say
               that
               either
               to
               a
               Pagan
               who
               beleeueth
               not
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               Gods
               worde
               ;
               or
               to
               an
               heretike
               ,
               who
               vnderstandeth
               them
               not
               in
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               churche
               but
               accordinge
               to
               his
               owne
               fancie
               ,
               they
               are
               such
               as
               doe
               manifest
               themselues
               to
               be
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               ,
               is
               a
               most
               sencelesse
               Paradox
               contradicted
               by
               manifest
               experience
               ,
               not
               onlie
               in
               Martin
               Luther
               and
               all
               his
               disciples
               ,
               who
               as
               you
               knowe
               reiect
               diuerse
               bookes
               receiued
               by
               Caluin
               ,
               and
               his
               followers
               :
               but
               also
               of
               the
               auncient
               and
               holy
               fathers
               ,
               who
               did
               not
               vniuersallie
               receiue
               as
               Canonicall
               Scripture
               ,
               all
               such
               bookes
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               as
               nowe
               are
               receiued
               by
               you
               .
               And
               yett
               none
               of
               all
               these
               I
               suppose
               you
               will
               say
               ,
               wanted
               light
               to
               see
               that
               which
               is
               manifest
               of
               it selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Againe
             they
             are
             knowne
             by
             theire
             operation
             in
             vs
             ,
             for
             the
             worde
             of
             the
             Lorde
             is
             pure
             ,
             and
             conuerts
             the
             soule
             ,
             a
             two
             edged
             sworde
             Heb.
             4.
             12.
             
             a
             verie
             fierie
             worde
             psal
             .
             119.
             14.
             which
             purifieth
             the
             soules
             ,
             inflameth
             the
             affections
             ,
             enlighteneth
             the
             vnderstandinge
             ,
             and
             so
             softeneth
             the
             heart
             of
             the
             hearer
             ,
             that
             it
             frameth
             it
             sitt
             to
             all
             goodnes
             .
             Which
             noe
             other
             worde
             or
             worke
             deuised
             by
             the
             witt
             of
             men
             or
             Angells
             canne
             doe
             .
             Where
             vppō
             Lactātius
             speakinge
             of
             the
             differēce
             betweene
             the
             doctrine
             of
             the
             gentills
             &
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             saith
             ,
             that
             the
             wisdome
             of
             the
             Philosophers
             doth
             not
             roote
             out
             vice
             ,
             but
             hide
             it
             :
             whereas
             a
             fewe
             precepts
             of
             God
             ,
             so
             change
             the
             whole
             
             man
             ,
             and
             mould
             him
             a
             newe
             by
             castinge
             away
             the
             ould
             ,
             that
             one
             would
             not
             thinke
             him
             to
             be
             the
             same
             .
             Geue
             me
             a
             man
             that
             is
             wrathfull
             ,
             euill
             tougued
             ,
             vnbridled
             ,
             by
             a
             fewe
             wordes
             of
             God
             I
             will
             make
             him
             meeke
             as
             a
             lambe
             .
             Geue
             me
             a
             couetous
             ,
             auaritious
             and
             tenacious
             man
             ,
             I
             will
             restore
             him
             liberall
             ,
             and
             distributinge
             his
             money
             with
             his
             owne
             handes
             .
             Geue
             me
             a
             man
             fearfull
             of
             sorrowe
             and
             death
             ,
             he
             shall
             contemne
             crosses
             ,
             fires
             ,
             dangers
             ,
             bulls
             &c.
             
             By
             one
             lauer
             shall
             all
             malice
             be
             expelled
             ,
             such
             is
             the
             force
             of
             diuine
             wisdome
             that
             beinge
             powered
             into
             the
             brest
             of
             man
             ,
             it
             expelleth
             folly
             att
             one
             blowe
             that
             is
             the
             mother
             of
             all
             vices
             .
             What
             man
             then
             that
             hath
             his
             hearte
             thus
             mollified
             ,
             his
             will
             rectified
             ,
             his
             vnderstandinge
             cleared
             ,
             and
             his
             whole
             course
             suddenlie
             altered
             ,
             can
             deliberatelie
             doubte
             of
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             seinge
             Christe
             himselfe
             teacheth
             vs
             thus
             to
             knowe
             them
             .
             Is
             anie
             will
             performe
             the
             
             will
             of
             his
             father
             ,
             he
             shall
             knowe
             of
             the
             doctrine
             whether
             it
             be
             good
             or
             noe
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               In
               whome
               I
               pray
               you
               doth
               the
               scripture
               worke
               these
               effects
               you
               haue
               here
               so
               industriously
               numbred
               vp
               ?
               in
               those
               that
               beleeue
               them
               not
               to
               be
               true
               ,
               or
               to
               be
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               ?
               you
               will
               not
               say
               so
               I
               suppose
               .
               Why
               doe
               you
               therefore
               bring
               these
               arguments
               to
               prooue
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               easily
               knowne
               to
               be
               god
               ▪
               worde
               ,
               that
               they
               are
               manifest
               of
               themselues
               ,
               and
               neede
               not
               to
               be
               prooued
               ?
               Because
               you
               will
               euer
               be
               impertinent
               not
               knowinge
               what
               you
               say
               ,
               nor
               what
               you
               shoulde
               prooue
               ,
               and
               yet
               are
               you
               so
               full
               of
               bable
               that
               you
               will
               still
               be
               be
               talkinge
               .
               If
               one
               shoulde
               aske
               your
               aduise
               ,
               howe
               he
               might
               knowe
               good
               Phisicke
               
               and
               you
               shoulde
               say
               vnto
               him
               ,
               it
               is
               an
               easie
               thinge
               to
               knowe
               that
               .
               For
               that
               phisike
               which
               cōforteth
               nature
               ,
               expelleth
               disseases
               ,
               and
               restoreth
               health
               is
               certainlie
               good
               phisicke
               ;
               doe
               you
               thinke
               he
               shoulde
               be
               much
               wiser
               for
               your
               aduise
               ?
               whatsoeuer
               you
               thinke
               .
               I
               knowe
               he
               shoulde
               be
               as
               wise
               as
               he
               was
               before
               .
               Such
               is
               your
               directions
               to
               knowe
               the
               scripture
               ,
               vnto
               such
               as
               doe
               not
               alreadie
               knowe
               or
               beleeue
               them
               .
               And
               seeinge
               our
               Sauiour
               himselfe
               prescribeth
               as
               a
               necessarie
               rule
               to
               knowe
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               the
               performance
               of
               his
               fathers
               will
               ,
               before
               his
               doctrine
               canne
               be
               vnderstoode
               (
               as
               you
               well
               note
               but
               stil
               against
               your selfe
               )
               it
               is
               euident
               that
               they
               are
               not
               so
               cleare
               of
               thēselues
               nor
               yett
               so
               easie
               to
               be
               knowne
               ,
               as
               you
               pretend
               .
               For
               that
               doctrine
               which
               must
               first
               be
               practised
               by
               humble
               obedience
               ,
               before
               it
               can
               be
               vnderstoode
               or
               knowne
               to
               be
               of
               God
               as
               our
               Sauiour
               saith
               of
               the
               scripture
               ,
               noe
               man
               that
               is
               not
               deuoyde
               of
               all
               iudgment
               wil
               say
               ,
               is
               easie
               to
               be
               knowne
               euen
               by
               it selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             I
             might
             add
             all
             those
             arguments
             which
             both
             the
             fathers
             and
             schoolemen
             produce
             out
             of
             the
             scriptures
             themselues
             to
             prooue
             them
             the
             ofspringe
             of
             God
             ,
             which
             if
             they
             be
             stronge
             against
             gentiles
             ,
             I
             knowe
             not
             howe
             they
             should
             be
             weake
             against
             you
             ,
             vid.
             the
             maiestie
             of
             the
             doctrine
             ,
             the
             simplicitie
             and
             puritie
             of
             the
             stile
             ,
             antiquitie
             of
             the
             bookes
             ,
             truth
             of
             oracles
             and
             predictions
             that
             manie
             ages
             after
             held
             their
             complement
             ,
             with
             sundrie
             other
             to
             the
             like
             purpose
             ,
             but
             I
             passe
             by
             them
             and
             shutt
             vppe
             this
             pointe
             with
             that
             speeche
             of
             your
             Stewchus
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               were
               well
               aduised
               to
               passe
               by
               all
               such
               arguments
               of
               the
               fathers
               and
               schoolemen
               as
               woulde
               nothinge
               serue
               your
               purpose
               ,
               I
               woulde
               you
               had
               been
               
               so
               aduised
               from
               the
               begininge
               ,
               for
               soe
               shoulde
               I
               not
               haue
               hadd
               the
               labour
               and
               paynes
               to
               transcribe
               so
               manie
               impertinencies
               of
               yours
               as
               I
               haue
               been
               forced
               to
               doe
               hitherto
               .
               The
               arguments
               which
               you
               here
               mention
               taken
               by
               themselues
               ,
               are
               farr
               from
               makinge
               anie
               sufficient
               grounde
               to
               builde
               our
               faith
               vppon
               ,
               thoughe
               they
               are
               probable
               and
               prudent
               considerations
               and
               ioyned
               with
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               and
               tradition
               ,
               wherby
               ●e
               receiue
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               they
               are
               not
               without
               some
               force
               to
               persuade
               the
               bookes
               of
               the
               holy
               Bible
               ,
               to
               be
               gods
               worde
               ,
               and
               to
               be
               written
               by
               his
               inspiration
               .
               But
               take
               you
               experience
               of
               them
               in
               your selfe
               ,
               and
               see
               whether
               they
               are
               sufficient
               to
               persuade
               that
               the
               bookes
               of
               Wisdome
               ,
               Ecclesiastious
               and
               the
               rest
               receiued
               generallie
               by
               the
               whole
               churche
               ,
               and
               namelie
               by
               the
               fathers
               and
               schoolemen
               whose
               authoritie
               here
               you
               seeme
               to
               vrge
               )
               for
               canonicall
               ,
               are
               trulie
               gods
               worde
               and
               written
               by
               his
               holy
               spiritt
               .
               And
               if
               you
               finde
               them
               not
               sufficient
               groundes
               for
               these
               ,
               why
               woulde
               you
               intrude
               them
               vppon
               vs
               as
               sufficient
               for
               the
               rest
               ▪
               But
               lett
               vs
               heare
               what
               you
               bringe
               out
               of
               our
               Stewchus
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             They
             which
             thinke
             the
             authoritie
             of
             holy
             
             scriptures
             ,
             whereunto
             all
             the
             worlde
             nowe
             assenteth
             ,
             to
             depende
             vppon
             the
             readers
             faith
             ,
             and
             not
             to
             bringe
             with
             them
             certaine
             diuine
             and
             most
             potent
             reasons
             ,
             that
             drawe
             vnto
             them
             the
             iudgements
             of
             greate
             mindes
             ,
             are
             therefore
             deceiued
             ,
             because
             they
             are
             not
             of
             theire
             number
             ,
             whose
             mindes
             both
             by
             naturall
             goodnes
             and
             continuall
             exercitation
             of
             wisdome
             ,
             doe
             prudentlie
             apprehend
             the
             highest
             and
             truest
             thinges
             :
             whereas
             if
             anie
             haue
             that
             wisedome
             geuen
             him
             to
             esteeme
             the
             greatnes
             of
             thinges
             as
             they
             deserue
             ,
             
             he
             shall
             feele
             the
             weight
             of
             diuine
             oracies
             to
             be
             so
             greate
             ,
             that
             the
             pronunciation
             of
             them
             onlie
             would
             suffice
             to
             begett
             a
             most
             firme
             and
             suddaine
             faith
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               whole
               space
               of
               a
               thousand
               and
               fiue
               hundred
               yeeres
               geuen
               you
               to
               take
               your
               testimonies
               out
               of
               ,
               might
               haue
               sufficed
               without
               alleaginge
               of
               moderne
               writers
               ,
               and
               those
               o●
               small
               note
               and
               lesse
               authoritie
               .
               Stewchus
               is
               an
               author
               not
               wholly
               receiued
               ,
               and
               the
               booke
               cited
               by
               you
               is
               put
               in
               the
               index
               of
               bookes
               to
               be
               amended
               or
               corrected
               :
               and
               therefore
               the
               testimonie
               thereof
               thoughe
               it
               were
               otherwise
               most
               formall
               (
               as
               it
               is
               not
               )
               is
               of
               noe
               authority
               against
               vs.
               And
               truelie
               I
               wounder
               you
               are
               not
               ashamed
               to
               bring
               such
               stuffe
               for
               the
               proofe
               of
               your
               faith
               and
               doctrine
               .
               And
               that
               in
               such
               sorte
               as
               you
               haue
               lett
               passe
               all
               other
               and
               made
               choyce
               of
               this
               as
               of
               moste
               strength
               and
               force
               .
               Lett
               the
               iudicious
               reader
               nowe
               iudge
               by
               that
               which
               hath
               been
               sayde
               both
               by
               you
               and
               me
               ,
               whether
               the
               scriptures
               are
               so
               clearelie
               knowne
               by
               themselues
               and
               by
               theire
               owne
               light
               ,
               that
               they
               neede
               no
               other
               proofe
               to
               be
               gods
               worde
               and
               written
               by
               his
               spiritt
               .
               And
               whether
               it
               he
               a
               needles
               or
               disorderlie
               thinge
               for
               him
               that
               pretendeth
               to
               prooue
               all
               the
               points
               of
               his
               faith
               by
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               to
               prooue
               first
               that
               there
               is
               a
               holie
               scripture
               ,
               and
               then
               to
               prooue
               in
               what
               bookes
               it
               is
               contayned
               .
               And
               lastlie
               whether
               because
               you
               (
               refusinge
               traditions
               and
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               ,
               by
               which
               onlie
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               are
               knowne
               cannot
               prooue
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               such
               ,
               and
               therefore
               receiuinge
               them
               vpon
               the
               credit
               of
               your
               owne
               fancie
               ,
               which
               consequentlie
               must
               be
               the
               fundamentall
               rule
               of
               your
               whole
               Faith
               ,
               doe
               not
               recurre
               to
               that
               shifte
               ,
               to
               say
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               so
               euident
               of
               themselues
               ,
               that
               they
               neede
               noe
               other
               proofe
               or
               testimonie
               but
               themselues
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTION
             7.
             
          
        
         
           And
           here
           occur
           by
           the
           way
           two
           thinges
           worthy
           of
           note
           .
           The
           one
           that
           the
           scripture
           cannot
           be
           an
           vniuersall
           rule
           of
           our
           faith
           ,
           seeinge
           somethinges
           are
           to
           be
           beleeued
           without
           proofe
           of
           scripture
           ,
           as
           are
           (
           for
           example
           )
           that
           there
           is
           an
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           contayninge
           gods
           worde
           and
           reuelation
           ,
           and
           that
           these
           &
           these
           bookes
           be
           such
           ,
           therefore
           of
           necessitie
           must
           there
           be
           some
           other
           rule
           of
           our
           faith
           more
           vniuersall
           then
           the
           scriptures
           ,
           and
           consequentlie
           before
           the
           scriptures
           .
           And
           this
           cannot
           be
           but
           the
           authoritie
           of
           gods
           churche
           ,
           which
           is
           clearely
           S.
           August
           :
           doctrine
           ,
           who
           was
           not
           a
           frayde
           to
           say
           :
           
             I
             woulde
             not
             beleeue
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             but
             that
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             church
             doth
             moue
             me
             .
          
           Seeinge
           therefore
           the
           authoritie
           of
           the
           churche
           is
           a
           sufficient
           motiue
           for
           vs
           to
           beleeue
           what
           is
           scripture
           ,
           why
           shoulde
           it
           not
           haue
           the
           like
           authoritie
           with
           vs
           in
           other
           points
           of
           faith
           ?
           which
           is
           also
           S.
           Aug
           :
           argument
           in
           the
           same
           place
           :
           but
           I
           will
           notwithstandinge
           satisfie
           our
           aduersaries
           in
           theire
           owne
           humour
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Your
             former
             grounde
             beinge
             a
             bedd
             of
             sande
             ,
             that
             scriptures
             cannott
             be
             prooued
             by
             scriptures
             ,
             these
             conclusions
             that
             you
             doe
             builde
             vppon
             it
             ,
             doe
             of
             themselues
             fall
             to
             the
             grounde
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               When
               you
               shall
               ,
               followinge
               your
               principles
               ,
               proue
               out
               of
               the
               scripture
               ,
               either
               that
               there
               is
               a
               scripture
               
               or
               in
               what
               bookes
               it
               is
               contayned
               ,
               without
               supposinge
               some
               scripture
               without
               proofe
               ,
               then
               may
               you
               terme
               my
               grounde
               ,
               to
               be
               a
               bedd
               of
               sande
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               also
               beleeue
               it
               so
               to
               be
               .
               But
               till
               then
               ,
               I
               will
               esteeme
               it
               a
               rock
               that
               breaketh
               all
               your
               batteries
               like
               as
               if
               they
               were
               balls
               of
               sande
               caste
               against
               a
               brasen
               wall
               .
               And
               therefore
               the
               conclusions
               built
               vppon
               it
               ,
               will
               neither
               of
               themselues
               ,
               nor
               yett
               by
               all
               your
               forces
               ,
               fall
               to
               the
               grounde
               but
               will
               stande
               firme
               and
               stronge
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             First
             that
             the
             scriptures
             are
             not
             the
             vniuersall
             rule
             of
             faith
             ,
             a
             position
             so
             derogatorie
             to
             the
             
             testament
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             so
             contrarie
             to
             the
             doctrine
             of
             the
             auncient
             churche
             ,
             that
             I
             wounder
             howe
             you
             durst
             venture
             vppon
             it
             ;
             For
             the
             rule
             whereunto
             nothinge
             must
             be
             added
             ,
             nothinge
             
             detracted
             ,
             is
             an
             vniuersall
             and
             persecte
             rule
             ,
             such
             is
             the
             scripture
             ,
             which
             is
             Aquinas
             collection
             .
             ●
             .
             Tim.
             6.
             
             For
             if
             anie
             addition
             or
             detraction
             might
             be
             made
             in
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             they
             could
             not
             be
             the
             rule
             att
             all
             .
             As
             in
             a
             rule
             saith
             Photicus
             if
             yee
             adde
             or
             diminishe
             any
             thinge
             ,
             yee
             corrupte
             the
             whole
             .
             And
             a
             rule
             saith
             Theophilact
             neither
             hath
             augmentation
             nor
             diminution
             ,
             soe
             is
             it
             in
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             which
             Chrisostome
             termeth
             the
             most
             experte
             rule
             ,
             Canon
             ,
             and
             Gnomon
             that
             can
             be
             ,
             if
             it
             admitte
             anie
             supplie
             ,
             it
             coulde
             not
             be
             the
             rule
             at
             all
             .
             And
             if
             we
             must
             not
             be
             wise
             in
             matters
             diuine
             aboue
             that
             which
             is
             written
             ,
             then
             that
             which
             is
             written
             is
             the
             rule
             of
             our
             wisdome
             and
             faith
             :
             But
             S.
             Paule
             forbiddeth
             
             that
             ranknes
             of
             witt
             to
             enquire
             further
             then
             that
             which
             is
             written
             .
             This
             S.
             Aug.
             collecteth
             
             out
             of
             this
             place
             ;
             The
             holy
             scripture
             doth
             prefixe
             
             vnto
             vs
             the
             rule
             of
             our
             faith
             ,
             least
             we
             shoulde
             presume
             to
             be
             more
             wise
             then
             behoueth
             ,
             but
             as
             he
             saith
             let
             vs
             be
             wise
             vnto
             sobrietie
             as
             God
             hath
             diuided
             vnto
             euerie
             one
             the
             measure
             of
             faith
             .
             Finallie
             if
             our
             faith
             doth
             lastlie
             resolue
             it selfe
             into
             the
             scriptures
             onlie
             ,
             then
             they
             alone
             are
             the
             rule
             ,
             and
             nothinge
             can
             be
             founde
             more
             vniuersall
             ,
             but
             this
             is
             graunted
             by
             your
             best
             diuines
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Till
               it
               be
               prooued
               by
               expresse
               scripture
               ,
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               the
               vniuersall
               rule
               of
               our
               saith
               ,
               or
               that
               nothinge
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               but
               that
               which
               is
               prooued
               by
               scripture
               .
               you
               cannot
               trulie
               say
               that
               my
               position
               is
               derogatorie
               to
               the
               Testament
               of
               Christ
               .
               And
               because
               it
               can
               neuer
               be
               prooued
               by
               scripture
               ,
               that
               nothinge
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               but
               that
               which
               is
               prooued
               by
               expresse
               scripture
               ,
               your
               position
               is
               hereticall
               ,
               the
               contrarie
               thereof
               beinge
               clearelie
               testified
               by
               the
               scripture
               ,
               as
               shall
               appeare
               in
               the
               first
               and
               seconde
               controuersie
               ;
               vnto
               which
               places
               I
               will
               referr
               you
               for
               answere
               to
               your
               arguments
               ,
               (
               which
               you
               there
               repeate
               )
               as
               the
               more
               proper
               place
               .
               Onlie
               I
               will
               not
               omitte
               to
               tell
               you
               here
               ,
               that
               you
               loose
               your
               creditt
               .
               with
               al
               men
               by
               vtteringe
               such
               knowne
               vntruthes
               as
               ,
               
                 that
                 the
                 best
                 of
                 our
                 diuines
                 doe
                 graunte
                 the
                 ●ast
                 resolution
                 of
                 our
                 faith
                 to
                 ●ee
                 into
                 the
                 scriptures
                 onlie
              
               You
               shoulde
               haue
               named
               some
               one
               author
               att
               least
               ,
               to
               haue
               geuen
               creditt
               to
               your
               assertion
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             What
             then
             is
             the
             rule
             that
             is
             more
             vniuersall
             ?
             The
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             say
             you
             ;
             Traditions
             saith
             Bellarmine
             ,
             the
             faith
             of
             the
             
             churche
             that
             is
             written
             in
             the
             heartes
             of
             the
             faithfull
             saith
             Stapleton
             :
             soe
             friendlie
             doe
             the
             
             patrons
             of
             this
             errour
             accorde
             ,
             as
             if
             that
             curse
             
             wherewith
             God
             threatned
             the
             Egiptiās
             had
             fallē
             vpon
             them
             .
             I
             wil
             sett
             Egiptians
             against
             Egiptiās
             ,
             they
             shal
             fight
             euerie
             one
             against
             his
             neighbour
             .
             For
             if
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             doth
             make
             vppe
             the
             rule
             ,
             traditiōs
             doe
             not
             beinge
             two
             thinges
             ,
             as
             different
             as
             the
             fountaine
             &
             the
             streame
             ,
             the
             fruite
             and
             the
             tree
             .
             For
             traditions
             flowe
             from
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             saith
             Stapleton
             ;
             Authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             is
             the
             churches
             testimonie
             ,
             tradition
             is
             doctrine
             not
             a
             testimonie
             onlie
             .
             This
             therefore
             is
             neither
             a
             more
             vniuersall
             rule
             ,
             nor
             yet
             before
             it
             ,
             which
             is
             your
             seconde
             conclusion
             ,
             and
             which
             if
             it
             were
             true
             ,
             the
             churche
             shoulde
             be
             
               summa
               &
               prima
               veritas
            
             :
             for
             that
             for
             which
             we
             must
             beleeue
             the
             Ghospell
             ,
             and
             it
             for
             it selfe
             ,
             is
             the
             highest
             and
             first
             truth
             ,
             but
             you
             papists
             ,
             say
             so
             of
             the
             churche
             :
             therefore
             you
             haue
             dei●yed
             and
             changed
             it
             into
             the
             deitie
             ,
             and
             so
             made
             it
             of
             Beth●●●●
             and
             house
             of
             God
             ,
             to
             be
             Bethanan
             ,
             the
             house
             of
             iniquitie
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               There
               is
               as
               much
               diuersitie
               or
               discorde
               betweene
               all
               these
               sayinges
               of
               ours
               ,
               as
               a
               goode
               Logician
               would
               finde
               betweene
               
                 viuens
                 ,
                 ●en●●●ns
                 ,
                 〈◊〉
                 in●e●●●●ns
                 ,
              
               which
               being
               ●ubalterna
               ,
               are
               not
               in
               anie
               mans
               brayne
               dispara●a
               or
               opposita
               vnles
               in
               yours
               ,
               which
               is
               often
               contrarie
               to
               it selfe
               .
               Both
               tradtions
               therefore
               and
               the
               authority
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               are
               more
               vniuersal
               rules
               thē
               the
               scriptures
               ;
               And
               thoughe
               the
               one
               of
               them
               is
               more
               vniuersall
               and
               before
               the
               other
               ,
               yet
               neither
               of
               them
               is
               summa
               or
               
                 prima
                 veritas
              
               ,
               as
               you
               most
               ignorantlie
               affirme
               in
               the
               precedent
               section
               ,
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               for
               the
               which
               intollerable
               ignorance
               you
               are
               iustlie
               
               reprehended
               there
               )
               nor
               either
               of
               them
               is
               beleeued
               for
               it selfe
               ,
               but
               for
               the
               testimonie
               of
               God
               reuelinge
               theire
               veritie
               who
               onlie
               is
               beleeued
               for
               himselfe
               ,
               and
               his
               owne
               essentiall
               truth
               and
               veritie
               .
               And
               therefore
               your
               childishe
               inference
               of
               changinge
               Bethell
               into
               Bethanan
               ,
               is
               a
               ridiculous
               conclusion
               of
               your
               owne
               ignorant
               premisses
               ,
               or
               a
               dreame
               of
               your
               owne
               idle
               and
               emptie
               braine
               .
               But
               you
               will
               bringe
               more
               solid
               stuffe
               hereafter
               ,
               lett
               vs
               heare
               the
               rest
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Besides
             ,
             if
             it
             be
             demaunded
             from
             whence
             the
             churche
             hath
             an●e
             such
             authoritie
             ,
             it
             is
             answered
             from
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             for
             which
             are
             produced
             sundrie
             testimonies
             ;
             He
             that
             heareth
             you
             heareth
             me
             ,
             Goe
             teach
             all
             nations
             .
             If
             then
             the
             life
             of
             this
             authoritie
             be
             maintayned
             and
             supported
             by
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             they
             are
             the
             rule
             and
             measure
             of
             her
             ,
             and
             so
             before
             her
             ,
             and
             not
             reciprocalli●
             measured
             by
             her
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               When
               it
               is
               demanded
               by
               such
               as
               pretend
               to
               beleeue
               the
               scriptures
               (
               as
               you
               make
               shewe
               to
               doe
               and
               yett
               deny
               the
               churches
               Authoritie
               ,
               as
               you
               heretically
               doe
               ,
               what
               proofe
               there
               is
               of
               the
               churches
               authority
               ,
               the
               scriptures
               are
               rightlie
               produced
               ,
               for
               the
               proofe
               thereof
               ,
               not
               that
               thee
               hath
               her
               authoritie
               from
               the
               scriptures
               (
               as
               you
               either
               ignorantlie
               or
               negligentlie
               say
               )
               for
               her
               authoritie
               she
               hath
               from
               God.
               The
               authour
               of
               all
               power
               and
               authoritie
               ;
               but
               that
               this
               authoritie
               i●
               testified
               by
               the
               scripture
               .
               And
               maruell
               it
               is
               to
               me
               ,
               that
               you
               your selfe
               findinge
               and
               feelinge
               such
               testimonie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               for
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               as
               you
               cite
               in
               this
               place
               ,
               doe
               not
               yett
               cease
               to
               impugne
               it
               .
               But
               the
               truth
               is
               ,
               you
               beleeue
               and
               follow
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               so
               farr
               as
               your selfe
               list
               onlie
               ,
               and
               noe
               farther
               .
               On
               the
               other
               side
               when
               it
               is
               demaunded
               by
               such
               as
               belieue
               neither
               scriptures
               nor
               the
               churche
               ,
               
               but
               yett
               seeke
               some
               groundes
               of
               christian
               beliefe
               ,
               it
               woulde
               be
               a
               ridiculous
               thinge
               to
               prooue
               the
               church
               by
               the
               scriptures
               seinge
               they
               are
               written
               ,
               taught
               ,
               and
               preached
               ,
               by
               the
               ministrie
               of
               mē
               ,
               whereof
               the
               church
               consisteth
               ,
               and
               did
               consist
               many
               hundreds
               of
               yeeres
               before
               there
               were
               anie
               scriptures
               att
               all
               .
               In
               this
               case
               therefor
               it
               is
               cleare
               ,
               that
               the
               church
               hath
               other
               proofe
               then
               from
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               before
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               in
               that
               case
               must
               be
               prooued
               by
               the
               churche
               .
               But
               what
               this
               proofe
               is
               and
               whence
               it
               is
               taken
               ,
               pertayneth
               not
               to
               this
               place
               to
               say
               .
               Yet
               whatsoeuer
               it
               be
               it
               is
               manifest
               that
               in
               this
               case
               ,
               the
               proofe
               &
               knowledg
               of
               the
               church
               ,
               must
               goe
               before
               the
               proofe
               and
               knowledge
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               as
               beinge
               before
               it
               ,
               and
               leadinge
               vnto
               it
               ,
               and
               not
               the
               contrarie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             This
             is
             yett
             more
             cleare
             by
             the
             verie
             proposition
             graunted
             by
             Papists
             ,
             that
             the
             scripture
             is
             the
             rule
             ,
             whereof
             the
             sence
             is
             ,
             that
             the
             sence
             and
             doctrine
             ,
             not
             the
             letters
             and
             characters
             are
             this
             rule
             .
             Nowe
             lett
             our
             aduersaries
             iudge
             whether
             is
             more
             auncient
             ,
             the
             doctrine
             of
             the
             church
             which
             is
             the
             seede
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             or
             the
             church
             which
             is
             begotten
             of
             it
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               either
               ignorantlie
               mistake
               ,
               or
               wilfullie
               inuert
               the
               question
               ,
               which
               is
               not
               whether
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               be
               a
               rule
               of
               faith
               ,
               which
               noe
               christian
               denieth
               ,
               but
               whether
               it
               be
               the
               first
               and
               most
               vniuersall
               rule
               thereof
               .
               And
               this
               none
               but
               heretikes
               that
               denie
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               and
               veritie
               of
               traditions
               (
               both
               which
               notwithstandinge
               are
               expresselie
               testified
               by
               holy
               scripture
               ▪
               did
               euer
               affirme
               .
               And
               whether
               the
               church
               be
               more
               aunciēt
               then
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               if
               you
               doubte
               ,
               as
               you
               seeme
               to
               doe
               ,
               yea
               and
               to
               affirme
               the
               contrarie
               ,
               I
               shall
               esteeme
               you
               either
               very
               senceles
               ,
               or
               verie
               wilfull
               and
               pe●uers
               ;
               the
               scriptures
               hauinge
               
               been
               written
               by
               the
               churche
               ,
               vnles
               peraduenture
               by
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               or
               doctrine
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               you
               vnderstande
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               written
               in
               the
               hearts
               of
               men
               ,
               by
               the
               immediate
               reuelation
               of
               the
               holy
               Ghost
               ,
               and
               by
               them
               deliuered
               by
               worde
               of
               mouth
               the
               one
               to
               the
               other
               ,
               vntill
               Moises
               ,
               who
               was
               the
               first
               that
               euer
               committed
               anie
               thinge
               to
               writinge
               .
               If
               you
               take
               the
               scriptures
               in
               this
               sence
               ,
               that
               which
               you
               meane
               is
               true
               ;
               and
               if
               further
               you
               acknowledge
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               and
               veritie
               of
               Tradition
               ,
               in
               deliueringe
               this
               doctrine
               and
               teachinge
               it
               one
               to
               another
               by
               worde
               of
               mouth
               before
               it
               was
               written
               ,
               our
               controuersie
               is
               at
               an
               end
               .
               The
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               and
               traditions
               being
               euidentlie
               prooued
               to
               goe
               before
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               to
               be
               a
               more
               vniuersall
               rule
               of
               faith
               then
               the
               scriptures
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             So
             that
             as
             your
             first
             conclusion
             is
             a
             manifest
             vntruth
             ,
             that
             there
             is
             a
             more
             vniuersall
             rule
             of
             faith
             then
             the
             scriptures
             ;
             So
             the
             second
             is
             a
             dull
             and
             heauie
             conceipt
             ,
             that
             the
             churche
             shoulde
             be
             more
             auncient
             and
             before
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               either
               my
               first
               conclusion
               (
               as
               you
               tearme
               it
               )
               be
               a
               manifest
               vntruth
               ,
               or
               my
               second
               a
               dull
               cōceipt
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               doombelie
               denie
               it
               ,
               without
               anie
               proofe
               or
               reason
               att
               all
               ?
               Especiallie
               seinge
               I
               prooued
               the
               first
               by
               cleare
               instance
               ,
               as
               you
               may
               see
               ,
               and
               the
               seconde
               is
               but
               a
               sequell
               or
               necessarie
               deduction
               of
               the
               first
               ?
               If
               it
               be
               enough
               for
               you
               to
               say
               that
               your
               aduersaries
               conclusions
               thoughe
               prooued
               by
               manifest
               instance
               ,
               are
               manifest
               vntruthes
               ,
               you
               may
               well
               hope
               to
               carrie
               away
               the
               bucklers
               from
               a
               farr
               greater
               clerke
               then
               euer
               I
               shall
               pretende
               to
               be
               .
               For
               you
               knowe
               that
               Aristotles
               asse
               is
               able
               to
               denie
               more
               ,
               then
               his
               mayster
               is
               able
               to
               prooue
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Peruse
             the
             fathers
             in
             whose
             workes
             you
             seeme
             to
             be
             conuersant
             ,
             and
             nominate
             one
             that
             hath
             taught
             ,
             either
             that
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             is
             a
             more
             vniuersall
             rule
             ,
             or
             that
             she
             was
             before
             theire
             doctrine
             ;
             which
             are
             the
             two
             cheefest
             stoopes
             of
             your
             religion
             ,
             whereas
             in
             them
             I
             finde
             that
             the
             scriptures
             is
             the
             rule
             ,
             and
             they
             nominate
             nothinge
             else
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               had
               weighed
               S.
               Aug
               :
               testimonie
               which
               the
               manuall
               setteth
               downe
               in
               this
               place
               (
               and
               which
               you
               vainlie
               strugle
               to
               auoyde
               )
               with
               equall
               iudgment
               ,
               you
               woulde
               not
               haue
               putte
               me
               to
               further
               search
               of
               the
               fathers
               for
               proofe
               of
               that
               which
               I
               say
               .
               You
               shall
               either
               deliuer
               your selfe
               better
               from
               S.
               Aug
               :
               authoritie
               then
               here
               you
               haue
               donne
               ,
               or
               else
               you
               shall
               be
               forced
               to
               swallowe
               it
               downe
               as
               a
               bitter
               ,
               but
               a
               wholsome
               pill
               against
               your
               heresie
               .
               Neither
               will
               I
               take
               the
               taxe
               at
               your
               hande
               to
               searche
               further
               the
               fathers
               for
               this
               purpose
               ,
               till
               I
               see
               this
               one
               better
               satisfied
               .
               And
               you
               fight
               against
               your
               owne
               shaddowe
               when
               you
               labour
               to
               prooue
               by
               the
               fathers
               ,
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               a
               rule
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               your
               aduersaries
               denyinge
               it
               not
               ,
               as
               I
               toulde
               you
               before
               .
               But
               you
               loue
               to
               shewe
               your
               strength
               when
               none
               resisteth
               you
               .
               And
               that
               the
               fathers
               nominate
               no
               other
               rule
               ,
               is
               as
               true
               as
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               sayinges
               .
               For
               seeinge
               they
               auouch
               so
               plainlie
               and
               frequentlie
               traditions
               ,
               and
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               as
               you
               knowe
               they
               doe
               ,
               howe
               canne
               you
               say
               that
               they
               name
               noe
               other
               rule
               ?
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               Ecclesiasticall
               rule
               ,
               is
               the
               consent
               and
            
             
             
               conspiration
               of
               the
               old
               and
               newe
               testament
               saith
               Clemens
               .
               The
               holy
               scripture
               doth
               prefixe
               vnto
               vs
               the
               rule
               of
               our
               faith
               saith
               S.
               Aug.
               
            
             
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               knowe
               not
               whether
               I
               shoulde
               attribute
               the
               citinge
               of
               this
               authoritie
               out
               of
               Clemens
               ,
               to
               your
               ignoraunce
               or
               to
               your
               fraude
               and
               desire
               to
               deceiue
               by
               it
               your
               reader
               ,
               it
               is
               so
               impertinent
               to
               your
               purpose
               .
               He
               sayinge
               onlie
               that
               it
               is
               the
               Ecclesiasticall
               rule
               of
               interpretinge
               scriptures
               to
               make
               the
               prophetts
               and
               lawe
               to
               accorde
               with
               the
               testament
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               .
               Which
               what
               it
               maketh
               to
               prooue
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               the
               sole
               rule
               of
               faith
               I
               cannot
               conceiue
               .
               S.
               Aug.
               you
               cite
               so
               at
               large
               that
               I
               knowe
               not
               where
               to
               look
               for
               the
               place
               by
               you
               alleaged
               ,
               to
               see
               whether
               it
               be
               not
               as
               pertinentlie
               alleaged
               as
               the
               other
               is
               .
               And
               seinge
               the
               scriptures
               doe
               send
               vs
               to
               our
               pastours
               to
               learne
               our
               faith
               ,
               and
               to
               the
               churche
               commandinge
               vs
               to
               heare
               it
               ,
               it
               may
               well
               be
               sayde
               to
               prefixe
               vnto
               vs
               the
               rule
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               and
               yett
               exclude
               not
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               ,
               for
               the
               which
               we
               nowe
               contende
               .
               So
               that
               this
               place
               is
               as
               fitt
               for
               your
               purpose
               as
               the
               other
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               churche
               goeth
               not
               out
               of
               her
               boundes
               ,
            
             
             
               that
               is
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               saith
               Ierome
               .
               And
               least
               you
               might
               thinke
               it
               is
               the
               rule
               ,
               but
               not
               the
               onlie
               rule
               ;
               Vincentius
               addeth
               the
               sole
               rule
               of
               the
               scriptures
               is
               sufficient
               to
               all
               thinges
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               churche
               followinge
               the
               authoritie
               of
               tradition
               ,
               and
               the
               iudgment
               of
               the
               churche
               in
               all
               matters
               of
               saith
               and
               manners
               which
               the
               scriptures
               doe
               expresslie
               geue
               testimonie
               and
               warrant
               vnto
               ,
               doth
               not
               goe
               out
               of
               the
               boundes
               of
               the
               scriptures
               .
               In
               citinge
               Vincentius
               you
               vse
               your
               accustomed
               fraude
               ,
               leauinge
               out
               the
               wordes
               goinge
               before
               .
               Which
               are
               so
               expresslie
               against
               your
               purpose
               ,
               that
               had
               you
               sett
               them
               downe
               ,
               they
               had
               been
               sufficient
               to
               confute
               your
               errours
               in
               this
               pointe
               ,
               they
               are
               these
               .
               
                 We
                 haue
                 sayde
                 before
                 ,
                 ha●
                 this
                 alwayes
                 hath
                 been
                 ,
                 and
                 is
                 also
              
               
               
                 at
                 this
                 day
                 the
                 custome
                 of
                 Catholikes
                 ,
                 to
                 prooue
                 the
                 truth
                 of
                 fayth
                 by
                 these
                 two
                 meanes
                 .
                 First
                 by
                 the
                 authoritie
                 of
                 diuine
                 Canon
                 ;
                 then
                 by
                 tradition
                 of
                 the
                 Catholike
                 churche
                 ,
                 not
                 because
                 the
                 Canon
                 alone
                 is
                 not
                 sufficient
                 of
                 it selfe
                 to
                 all
                 thinges
                 ;
                 but
                 &c.
                 
              
               Now
               lett
               the
               iudicious
               reader
               iudge
               whether
               this
               holy
               father
               make
               the
               scriptures
               the
               sole
               rule
               of
               faith
               or
               noe
               .
               When
               he
               saith
               ,
               
                 the
                 sacred
                 Canon
                 is
                 sufficient
                 to
                 all
                 thinges
                 ,
              
               he
               meaneth
               that
               it
               is
               sufficient
               to
               al
               thinges
               that
               is
               necessarie
               to
               euerie
               mans
               saluation
               ,
               or
               to
               euerie
               man
               to
               beleeue
               .
               For
               these
               thinges
               are
               not
               many
               and
               sufficientlie
               expressed
               in
               the
               holy
               scripture
               .
               Or
               it
               is
               sufficient
               beinge
               lefte
               in
               the
               hands
               of
               the
               church
               to
               expound
               and
               interprete
               it
               ;
               but
               it
               is
               not
               sufficient
               for
               euerie
               one
               to
               picke
               his
               faith
               and
               beleefe
               out
               of
               .
               And
               consequentlie
               another
               rule
               ,
               to
               witt
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               in
               vnderstandinge
               and
               interpretinge
               the
               scriptures
               is
               necessarie
               ,
               as
               the
               same
               father
               teacheth
               in
               these
               expresse
               wordes
               .
               
                 Some
                 man
                 may
                 peraduenture
              
               
               
                 aske
                 ,
                 for
                 asmuch
                 as
                 the
                 Canon
                 of
                 the
                 scriptures
                 is
                 persect
                 and
                 in
                 all
                 pointes
                 verie
                 sufficient
                 in
                 it selfe
                 ,
                 what
                 neede
                 is
                 there
                 to
                 ioyne
                 thereunto
                 the
                 authoritie
                 of
                 the
                 Ecclesiasticall
                 vnderstandinge
                 ,
                 for
                 this
                 cause
                 surelie
                 ,
                 for
                 that
                 all
                 take
                 not
                 the
                 holy
                 scriptures
                 in
                 the
                 same
                 sence
                 ,
                 because
                 of
                 the
                 deepnes
                 thereof
                 :
                 but
                 the
                 sayinges
                 thereof
                 some
                 interprete
                 one
                 way
                 ,
                 and
                 some
                 another
                 ,
                 so
                 that
                 there
                 may
                 almoste
                 as
                 manie
                 sences
                 be
                 picked
                 out
                 of
                 it
                 ,
                 as
                 there
                 be
                 men
                 .
                 For
                 Nouatian
                 doth
                 expounde
                 it
                 one
                 way
                 ,
                 and
                 Sabellius
                 another
                 way
                 ,
                 otherwise
                 Arrius
                 ,
                 Eunomius
                 ,
                 Macedonius
                 ,
                 otherwayes
                 Photinus
                 ,
                 Apollinaris
                 ,
                 Priscillianus
                 ,
                 otherwayes
                 Iouinian
                 ,
                 Pelagius
                 ,
                 Celestus
                 ,
                 lastlie
                 otherwayes
                 Victorius
                 .
              
               Thus
               farr
               he
               who
               as
               you
               see
               expresselie
               admitteth
               as
               necessarie
               the
               rule
               of
               Ecclesiasticall
               authoritie
               ,
               besides
               the
               scriptures
               which
               is
               that
               we
               contend
               aboute
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             This
             clearelie
             is
             S.
             Aug.
             doctrine
             ,
             and
             the
             
             rest
             of
             the
             fathers
             &
             not
             your
             crooked
             inference
             ,
             that
             the
             authority
             of
             the
             churche
             is
             a
             more
             vniuersall
             and
             more
             auncient
             rule
             then
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             for
             where
             hath
             he
             anie
             word
             to
             this
             purpose
             ?
             I
             woulde
             not
             haue
             beleeued
             the
             gospel
             ,
             except
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             had
             moued
             me
             ,
             are
             too
             weake
             to
             inserr
             any
             such
             like
             conclusion
             ,
             thoughe
             we
             admitte
             them
             in
             your
             corrupt
             translation
             .
             For
             it
             is
             plaine
             ,
             he
             speaketh
             not
             these
             wordes
             of
             the
             present
             tyme
             ,
             when
             he
             was
             a
             Bishoppe
             as
             you
             reade
             them
             ,
             but
             of
             the
             tyme
             past
             when
             he
             was
             a
             Manichy
             .
             Beinge
             a
             Catholicke
             &
             a
             Bishoppe
             when
             he
             writte
             that
             booke
             ,
             he
             had
             farr
             other
             motiues
             to
             beleeue
             the
             Gospell
             then
             the
             authority
             of
             the
             church
             which
             here
             he
             alone
             nameth
             .
             Take
             one
             place
             for
             a
             thousande
             ,
             I
             take
             my
             conscience
             to
             witnes
             (
             Honoratus
             )
             and
             God
             that
             dwelleth
             in
             pure
             myndes
             ,
             that
             I
             thinke
             nothinge
             more
             wise
             ,
             chaste
             ,
             religious
             ,
             then
             all
             these
             scriptures
             ,
             which
             the
             catholicke
             churche
             retayneth
             vnder
             the
             name
             of
             the
             olde
             and
             new
             testament
             ,
             I
             knowe
             thou
             wounderest
             ,
             but
             I
             cannot
             d●ssemble
             ;
             I
             was
             otherwise
             persuaded
             .
             Howsoeuer
             then
             beinge
             an
             hereticke
             ,
             he
             thought
             of
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             yett
             nowe
             become
             a
             catholicke
             he
             beleeued
             them
             ,
             for
             that
             prudence
             chastitie
             pietie
             which
             he
             founde
             in
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Nowe
               lett
               vs
               see
               howe
               you
               will
               quitte
               your selfe
               of
               the
               authority
               of
               S.
               Aug
               :
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Manuall
               ;
               you
               say
               it
               is
               too
               weake
               to
               serue
               our
               turne
               ,
               because
               he
               spake
               not
               of
               the
               present
               tyme
               when
               he
               was
               Byshoppe
               and
               wrote
               that
               booke
               ,
               but
               when
               he
               was
               a
               
               Manichie
               (
               A
               poore
               and
               silie
               shifte
               God
               wotte
               )
               lett
               his
               owne
               wordes
               witnes
               what
               his
               meaning
               is
               .
               
                 Ego
                 Euāgelio
                 non
                 crederem
                 ,
                 nisi
                 me
                 Ecclesi
                 〈…〉
                 s
                 cōmoueret
              
               I
               woulde
               not
               beleeue
               the
               Gospell
               ,
               but
               that
               the
               churches
               authority
               did
               moue
               me
               ;
               He
               saith
               not
               
                 nō
                 credidissem
                 nisi
                 commo●isset
              
               I
               had
               not
               beleeued
               had
               not
               the
               authoritie
               moued
               me
               ,
               as
               you
               corruptlie
               translate
               ,
               or
               if
               I
               doe
               produce
               your
               coppie
               ,
               for
               myne
               hath
               
                 crederem
                 &
                 commoueret
              
               which
               if
               you
               will
               translate
               
                 had
                 beleeued
                 and
                 had
                 moued
              
               ,
               you
               shall
               be
               putt
               to
               your
               Accidence
               againe
               .
            
             
               But
               beit
               that
               he
               spake
               of
               himselfe
               as
               being
               a
               Manichie
               ,
               (
               which
               is
               as
               true
               as
               that
               he
               was
               a
               Manichie
               when
               he
               wrote
               this
               )
               this
               is
               so
               far
               from
               fauoringe
               your
               cause
               ,
               that
               it
               maketh
               it
               much
               worse
               .
               For
               if
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               had
               force
               to
               moue
               an
               hereticke
               to
               beleeue
               the
               gospell
               ,
               what
               man
               not
               depriued
               of
               common
               sence
               will
               denie
               ,
               but
               it
               hath
               at
               least
               the
               like
               force
               with
               a
               catholike
               ?
               But
               you
               say
               that
               S.
               Aug
               :
               beinge
               a
               catholike
               ,
               had
               other
               motiues
               to
               beleeue
               the
               scriptures
               then
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               beit
               so
               ,
               what
               will
               you
               inferre
               thereof
               for
               your
               purpose
               ,
               or
               against
               me
               ?
               nothinge
               att
               all
               ,
               yea
               the
               testimonie
               alleaged
               by
               you
               out
               of
               him
               ,
               doth
               sufficiently
               witnes
               that
               the
               authority
               of
               the
               church
               did
               still
               moue
               him
               to
               beleeue
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               seeing
               he
               restraineth
               himselfe
               to
               those
               scriptures
               which
               the
               catholike
               churche
               receiueth
               and
               retayneth
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Againe
               if
               by
               the
               churche
               you
               meane
               the
               present
            
             
             
               church
               ,
               and
               by
               the
               present
               church
               her
               rulers
               and
               guides
               as
               your
               consorts
               vsuallie
               doe
               ,
               then
               is
               it
               most
               absurde
               to
               thinke
               that
               S.
               August
               :
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Bishoppes
               of
               his
               tyme
               beleeued
               the
               gospell
               for
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               for
               that
               had
               been
               for
               theire
               owne
               authoritie
               ,
               and
               so
               they
               had
               beleeued
               the
               gospell
               for
               themselues
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               hadd
               but
               one
               dramme
               of
               good
               Logicke
               ,
               you
               could
               not
               but
               haue
               seene
               your
               argument
               to
               haue
               been
               most
               idle
               ,
               and
               not
               beseeminge
               a
               doctor
               of
               diuinitie
               .
               For
               no
               nouice
               in
               logicke
               but
               knoweth
               ,
               that
               an
               argument
               taken
               from
               all
               the
               partes
               together
               ,
               or
               collectiue
               to
               euerie
               one
               in
               seuerall
               or
               particular
               ,
               concludeth
               nothinge
               affirmatiuelie
               .
               Such
               an
               one
               is
               yours
               beinge
               this
               is
               substance
               .
               S.
               Aug.
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               bishoppes
               beleeue
               the
               Gospell
               for
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               present
               churche
               ;
               but
               S.
               Aug.
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Bishoppes
               are
               the
               present
               churche
               ,
               ergo
               they
               beleeue
               the
               Gospell
               for
               themselues
               .
               Or
               if
               you
               doe
               not
               yett
               see
               your
               owne
               seelines
               in
               this
               argument
               ,
               compare
               it
               with
               this
               and
               peraduenture
               you
               will
               espie
               it
               .
               Richarde
               Pilkinton
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               ministers
               of
               the
               churche
               of
               Englande
               beleeue
               the
               39.
               articles
               to
               be
               good
               and
               lawfull
               for
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               of
               Englande
               .
               But
               Richarde
               Pilkinton
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               ministers
               are
               the
               churche
               of
               Englande
               ,
               ergo
               they
               beleeue
               the
               39.
               articles
               for
               themselues
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               But
               if
               diuers
               papists
               be
               not
               deceiued
               S.
               Aug.
               meaneth
               not
               the
               present
               churche
               ,
               but
               the
               churche
               which
               was
               in
               the
               Apostles
               tyme
               ,
               that
               sawe
               Christs
               miracles
               ,
               and
               heard
               his
               preachinge
               ,
               and
               so
               this
               speach
               of
               S.
               August
               helpeth
               you
               nothinge
               ,
               excepte
               you
               canne
               prooue
               that
               the
               present
               churche
               ,
               hath
               the
               same
               authoritie
               with
               the
               Apostles
               ,
            
             
             
               which
               your
               owne
               Driedo
               flathe
               denieth
               .
            
             Ecclesia
             primitiua
             propter
             collegium
             Apostolorum
             ,
             ad
             tradendam
             nouam
             nostrae
             fidei
             Doctrinam
             ,
             maioris
             erat
             gratiae
             ,
             maiorisque
             authoritatis
             quam
             Ecclesia
             quae
             nunc
             est
             .
             
               Accordinge
               to
               the
               Doctrine
               of
               S.
               August
               .
               and
               Hierome
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Thoughe
               S.
               Aug.
               shoulde
               meane
               the
               churche
               in
               the
               Apostles
               tyme
               excludinge
               the
               present
               churche
               (
               which
               is
               false
               )
               yett
               woulde
               this
               ouerthrowe
               your
               cause
               .
               For
               whence
               coulde
               he
               receiue
               the
               testimonie
               of
               that
               churche
               ,
               but
               by
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churches
               present
               and
               precedent
               ?
               And
               yett
               this
               serueth
               sufficientlie
               my
               turne
               to
               prooue
               some
               other
               rule
               of
               beleefe
               besides
               and
               before
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               is
               our
               controuersie
               here
               .
               That
               which
               you
               alleage
               out
               of
               our
               Driedo
               doth
               not
               prooue
               the
               present
               churche
               to
               be
               lesse
               infallible
               in
               her
               iudgmēt
               in
               matters
               of
               faith
               ,
               then
               the
               churche
               in
               the
               Apostles
               tyme
               ,
               neither
               doth
               anie
               catholicke
               say
               so
               .
               For
               seinge
               it
               is
               gouerned
               by
               the
               same
               spirit
               of
               truth
               which
               was
               promised
               shoulde
               remaine
               with
               her
               for
               euer
               ,
               shee
               cannot
               be
               more
               subiect
               to
               errour
               nowe
               ,
               then
               shee
               was
               at
               that
               tyme.
               Therfore
               that
               which
               Driedo
               saith
               is
               ,
               that
               the
               primatiue
               churche
               by
               reason
               of
               the
               colledge
               of
               the
               Apostles
               .
               had
               power
               to
               deliuer
               newe
               doctrine
               of
               faith
               which
               the
               succedinge
               church
               hath
               not
               ;
               but
               hath
               infallible
               authoritie
               to
               teache
               that
               faith
               which
               shee
               receaued
               of
               the
               Apostles
               .
               And
               this
               you
               might
               easilie
               haue
               seene
               to
               haue
               been
               Driedoes
               Doctrine
               ,
               if
               you
               had
               taken
               but
               anie
               ordinarie
               heede
               to
               his
               wordes
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Neuertheles
             to
             passe
             by
             this
             &
             to
             graunte
             that
             S.
             Augustin
             ,
             a
             Catholicke
             and
             a
             Bishoppe
             ,
             woulde
             not
             beleeue
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             but
             that
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             moued
             him
             ;
             is
             euerie
             motiue
             to
             beleeue
             ,
             a
             rule
             of
             faith
             ?
             Nothinge
             lesse
             .
             For
             the
             rule
             is
             that
             whereunto
             faith
             is
             lastlie
             resolued
             ,
             which
             is
             not
             into
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             as
             your
             best
             diuines
             teach
             ,
             but
             into
             the
             scriptures
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               might
               well
               haue
               past
               by
               all
               this
               indeede
               ,
               and
               also
               that
               which
               followeth
               ,
               had
               you
               not
               rather
               chosen
               to
               fil
               your
               paper
               with
               your
               impertinencies
               ,
               to
               the
               publishinge
               of
               your
               owne
               small
               iudgement
               .
               If
               you
               take
               the
               rule
               of
               ●aith
               so
               strictlie
               as
               it
               contayneth
               onlie
               that
               whereunto
               faith
               is
               lastlie
               resolued
               ,
               you
               will
               make
               onlie
               God
               reuelinge
               his
               verities
               to
               be
               the
               rule
               of
               faith
               ,
               and
               then
               you
               must
               exclude
               not
               onlie
               the
               churche
               but
               the
               scriptures
               also
               .
               But
               if
               you
               take
               it
               for
               a
               true
               ground
               of
               beleefe
               ,
               then
               that
               testimonie
               which
               so
               moueth
               to
               faith
               as
               it
               ingendreth
               faith
               in
               vs
               ,
               may
               trulie
               be
               sayde
               to
               be
               a
               rule
               of
               faith
               ,
               &
               such
               a
               motiue
               S.
               Aug
               :
               saith
               the
               churche
               is
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               And
               there
               vppon
               Cameracensis
               speakinge
               of
            
             
             
               this
               place
               of
               S.
               Aug
               :
               saith
               ,
               that
               it
               proueth
               not
               that
               he
               beleeued
               the
               gospell
               thoroughe
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               ,
               as
               by
               a
               Theologicall
               principle
               ,
               whereby
               the
               gospell
               might
               be
               prooued
               true
               ,
               but
               onlie
               as
               by
               a
               cause
               mouinge
               him
               to
               creditt
               it
               ,
               as
               if
               he
               shoulde
               say
               ,
               I
               woulde
               not
               beleeue
               the
               gospell
               vnles
               the
               holynes
               of
               the
               churche
               or
               Christes
               miracles
               did
               moue
               me
               .
               In
               which
               sayinge
               thoughe
               some
               cause
               of
               his
               beleeuinge
               be
               assigned
               ,
               yet
               no
               former
               principle
               is
               touched
               whose
               creditt
               might
               be
               the
               cause
               why
               the
               gospell
               shoulde
               be
               beleeued
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               appeareth
               well
               you
               vnderstande
               not
               what
               Cameracensis
               saith
               ,
               or
               else
               that
               you
               care
               not
               what
               you
               say
               ,
               so
               that
               you
               say
               somethinge
               .
               He
               saith
               the
               scriptures
               are
               not
               prooued
               by
               the
               authority
               of
               the
               churche
               as
               by
               a
               Theologicall
               principle
               or
               argument
               
                 ab
                 intrinseco
              
               but
               as
               a
               motiue
               from
               authority
               or
               
                 ab
                 extrinseco
              
               ,
               which
               is
               that
               all
               men
               say
               ,
               and
               which
               I
               only
               desire
               to
               prooue
               by
               S.
               Augustines
               testimonie
               .
               For
               if
               the
               church
               
               be
               a
               motiue
               ,
               to
               beleeue
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               it
               must
               necessarilie
               be
               before
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               be
               a
               more
               vniuersall
               rule
               ,
               cause
               or
               motiue
               of
               faith
               and
               beleefe
               then
               the
               scriptures
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Bellarmine
               saith
               ,
               that
               S.
               Aug.
               speaketh
               these
               wordes
               of
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               as
               of
               a
               cause
               propoundinge
               what
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ,
               and
               not
               of
               the
               foundation
               of
               faith
               .
               But
               the
               proposition
               of
               the
               churche
               is
               not
               the
               rule
               and
               resolution
            
             
             
               of
               faith
               ,
               but
               onlie
               a
               condition
               requisite
               of
               beleeuinge
               as
               Valent.
               teacheth
               in
               22.
               tom
               .
               3.
               de
               obiecto
               fidei
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               a
               most
               irkesome
               and
               importunate
               thinge
               to
               haue
               to
               doe
               with
               with
               an
               ignorant
               aduersarie
               ,
               that
               knoweth
               not
               what
               he
               shoulde
               either
               prooue
               or
               denie
               .
               Such
               an
               one
               you
               shewe
               your selfe
               to
               be
               .
               For
               if
               you
               take
               from
               the
               scripture
               which
               you
               trulie
               teache
               to
               be
               a
               rule
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               the
               authoritie
               to
               propose
               ,
               manifest
               ,
               and
               testify
               articles
               of
               beleefe
               ,
               see
               howe
               you
               will
               make
               it
               a
               rule
               of
               faith
               .
               Seeinge
               therefore
               you
               geue
               to
               the
               churche
               these
               thinges
               without
               which
               the
               scriptures
               are
               not
               a
               rule
               of
               faith
               ,
               why
               should
               you
               deny
               it
               to
               be
               also
               a
               rule
               of
               faith
               ?
               But
               the
               churche
               (
               you
               say
               )
               is
               not
               the
               foundation
               or
               resolution
               of
               faith
               (
               I
               speake
               in
               your
               owne
               phrase
               thoughe
               improperlie
               that
               you
               may
               vnderstande
               )
               and
               therfore
               is
               it
               not
               anie
               rule
               thereof
               .
               If
               this
               argument
               conclude
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               it
               will
               also
               prooue
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               noe
               rule
               of
               faith
               .
               For
               it
               is
               neither
               foundation
               ,
               nor
               resolution
               of
               faith
               ,
               if
               you
               vnderstande
               the
               first
               and
               chiefe
               foundation
               ,
               or
               last
               resolution
               (
               as
               I
               tould
               you
               before
               )
               vnles
               you
               will
               make
               it
               to
               be
               God
               himselfe
               .
               But
               if
               you
               take
               foundation
               for
               that
               which
               doth
               grounde
               our
               faith
               in
               a
               certaine
               and
               sure
               kinde
               of
               infallible
               testimonie
               ,
               in
               which
               sence
               al
               men
               speake
               ,
               
               that
               knowe
               what
               they
               speake
               ,
               thē
               are
               both
               the
               scriptures
               and
               the
               churche
               also
               foundations
               and
               groundes
               of
               our
               faith
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             And
             surelie
             if
             .
             S.
             Aug
             ,
             had
             meant
             that
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             had
             beene
             this
             rule
             which
             is
             your
             inference
             ,
             he
             had
             excluded
             all
             other
             rules
             .
             For
             he
             that
             saith
             ,
             I
             would
             not
             beleeue
             excepte
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             moued
             me
             ,
             establisheth
             one
             cause
             ,
             remoueth
             the
             rest
             .
             But
             this
             none
             of
             you
             dare
             accorde
             vnto
             ,
             &
             is
             as
             farr
             from
             S.
             Aug.
             meaninge
             as
             your
             next
             wordes
             are
             from
             truth
             .
             If
             therefore
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             be
             a
             sufficient
             motiue
             ,
             for
             a
             motiue
             it
             is
             ,
             which
             none
             of
             vs
             euer
             denyed
             ,
             but
             that
             it
             is
             a
             sufficient
             motiue
             ,
             neither
             canne
             you
             prooue
             ,
             nor
             yett
             S.
             August
             .
             anie
             where
             auoucheth
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               S.
               Aug.
               wordes
               (
               which
               are
               to
               be
               beleeued
               before
               your
               bare
               negation
               are
               most
               cleare
               ,
               that
               without
               the
               testimonie
               or
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               he
               hadd
               not
               beleeued
               the
               Gospell
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               that
               the
               churche
               was
               cause
               ,
               rule
               ,
               and
               motiue
               of
               his
               beleefe
               ,
               not
               in
               that
               degree
               that
               God
               is
               the
               rule
               or
               foundation
               of
               our
               faith
               ;
               for
               so
               we
               shoulde
               make
               S
               Aug.
               as
               sencelesse
               as
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               ,
               but
               in
               the
               like
               kinde
               or
               degree
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               ,
               but
               yett
               before
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               because
               he
               beleeued
               them
               for
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               .
               And
               therefore
               you
               see
               S.
               Aug.
               to
               say
               that
               which
               the
               Manuall
               saith
               ;
               that
               there
               is
               some
               other
               rule
               of
               faith
               before
               and
               more
               vniuersall
               then
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               seeinge
               that
               for
               it
               ,
               and
               by
               it
               the
               scriptures
               are
               beleeued
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTIO
             8.
             
          
        
         
           The
           second
           thinge
           to
           be
           noted
           is
           ,
           that
           they
           which
           beleeue
           nothinge
           but
           that
           which
           is
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           ,
           are
           euidentlie
           conuinced
           to
           beleeue
           nothinge
           at
           all
           .
           For
           they
           that
           cannott
           beleeue
           that
           there
           is
           an
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           or
           what
           bookes
           be
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           cannott
           beleeue
           anie
           thinge
           ,
           because
           it
           is
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           :
           for
           it
           is
           euident
           that
           before
           they
           beleeue
           anie
           thinge
           ,
           because
           it
           is
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           ,
           they
           must
           first
           beleeue
           that
           there
           is
           a
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           and
           what
           bookes
           are
           scripture
           .
           But
           they
           that
           beleeue
           not
           anie
           thinge
           but
           that
           which
           is
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           ,
           cannot
           beleeue
           that
           there
           is
           a
           scripture
           ,
           nor
           what
           bookes
           are
           holy
           scripture
           .
           For
           neither
           of
           these
           two
           canne
           be
           prooued
           by
           holy
           scripture
           .
           Therefore
           they
           that
           beleeue
           not
           anie
           thinge
           but
           that
           which
           is
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           ,
           cannott
           beleeue
           anie
           thinge
           att
           all
           .
           This
           argument
           is
           a
           playne
           demonstration
           and
           compelleth
           the
           protestants
           either
           to
           confesse
           that
           they
           haue
           noe
           faith
           att
           all
           ,
           or
           to
           acknowledge
           this
           their
           position
           to
           witt
           ,
           that
           nothinge
           ought
           or
           can
           rightlie
           be
           beleeued
           ,
           but
           that
           which
           may
           be
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           ,
           to
           acknowledge
           I
           say
           this
           position
           ,
           to
           be
           false
           :
           which
           notwithstandinge
           is
           one
           mayne
           grounde
           of
           all
           theire
           religion
           .
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             When
             a
             souldier
             that
             killed
             Marius
             came
             to
             cutt
             of
             his
             head
             ,
             he
             drewe
             out
             his
             sworde
             and
             told
             him
             
               (
               hie
               est
               gladius
               quem
               ipse
               fecisti
               )
            
             for
             Marius
             formerlie
             had
             been
             a
             cutter
             .
             The
             groundes
             that
             you
             haue
             layde
             ,
             cutt
             the
             throate
             of
             your
             faith
             ;
             but
             raseth
             not
             the
             skinne
             of
             the
             protestants
             .
             For
             I
             haue
             shewed
             before
             that
             scriptures
             doe
             sufficiently
             prooue
             themselues
             to
             be
             the
             worde
             of
             God
             ,
             and
             these
             and
             these
             bookes
             to
             be
             such
             ,
             whereon
             it
             followeth
             your
             conuincinge
             demonstration
             that
             protestants
             beleeue
             nothinge
             att
             all
             ,
             to
             be
             a
             windy
             friuoulous
             discourse
             ,
             whereas
             such
             conclusions
             may
             be
             drawne
             from
             your
             principles
             ,
             as
             will
             prooue
             
               (
               vulnera
               in
               capite
               canis
            
             )
             you
             will
             not
             easilie
             licke
             them
             hole
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Remoue
               the
               sworde
               first
               from
               your
               owne
               throate
               whi●h●●
               presseth
               to
               harde
               ,
               and
               after
               may
               you
               attēpt
               to
               pietie
               your
               aduersarie
               with
               it
               .
               You
               haue
               hitherto
               made
               a
               〈…〉
               able
               shewe
               of
               anie
               proofe
               ,
               but
               of
               your
               owne
               in
               re●lible
               ignorance
               and
               impertinencie
               ,
               ioyned
               with
               wilfull
               stande
               to
               de●e●●e
               your
               reader
               .
               If
               you
               defend
               your
               pro●esta●●s
               no
               better
               then
               hitherto
               you
               ●●●ue
               ,
               they
               will
               be
               euidentlie
               concluded
               to
               belieue
               nothinge
               att
               all
               by
               the
               argument
               proposed
               ,
               which
               〈…〉
               e
               you
               cannott
               tell
               where
               to
               begin
               to
               solue
               o●
               an●we●e
               ,
               you
               make
               a
               Thrasonicall
               and
               glorious
               sh●we
               of
               contempt
               of
               it
               ,
               as
               manie
               of
               yours
               〈◊〉
               ,
               and
               〈…〉
               elie
               your
               grand
               maister
               Calluine
               when
               〈…〉
               most
               prest
               and
               hath
               least
               to
               say
               for
               himselfe
               .
               Are
               you
               n●●
               ashamed
               to
               lett
               myne
               argument
               stand
               as
               a
               ●●●phey
               against
               you
               &
               your
               heresie
               without
               saying
               one
               worde
               in
               answere
               of
               it
               ,
               idlie
               supposinge
               that
               you
               haue
               sayde
               somethinge
               to
               it
               before
               ?
               But
               seeinge
               you
               dare
               not
               sett
               vppon
               mine
               argument
               to
               satisfi
               it
               ,
               
               which
               you
               should
               first
               haue
               donne
               ,
               lett
               vs
               see
               what
               incurable
               woundes
               you
               geue
               vnto
               me
               out
               of
               myne
               owne
               principles
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             For
             they
             that
             relie
             theire
             faith
             vppon
             humane
             testimonies
             originallie
             ,
             are
             conuinced
             to
             haue
             no
             faith
             att
             all
             :
             for
             faith
             commeth
             by
             hearinge
             ,
             and
             hearinge
             by
             the
             worde
             of
             God
             :
             But
             you
             papists
             relie
             your
             faith
             vppon
             humane
             testimonies
             originallie
             ,
             when
             you
             ground
             it
             on
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             which
             you
             say
             is
             a
             more
             vniuersall
             rule
             and
             more
             auncient
             then
             the
             scriptures
             .
             Now
             then
             make
             the
             conclusion
             as
             pleaseth
             you
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               graunte
               your
               proposition
               or
               maior
               ,
               and
               deny
               your
               minor
               .
               For
               where
               learned
               you
               to
               terme
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               humane
               testimonie
               ,
               seeinge
               the
               holy
               ghost
               stileth
               the
               churche
               
                 the
                 house
                 of
                 God
              
               ,
               
               
                 the
                 piller
                 and
                 grounde
                 of
                 truth
                 ?
              
               your
               conclusion
               therefore
               is
               blowne
               away
               like
               a
               fether
               .
               So
               that
               the
               wounde
               which
               you
               thought
               woulde
               prooue
               so
               grieuous
               ,
               is
               not
               so
               much
               as
               the
               blowe
               of
               a
               litle
               childe
               .
               Spitt
               therefore
               vppon
               your
               handes
               ,
               take
               better
               hold
               ,
               and
               strike
               more
               manfullie
               or
               else
               geue
               your
               bill
               to
               another
               .
               But
               so
               hoodewinkt
               you
               are
               either
               with
               ignorance
               or
               malice
               ,
               that
               strikinge
               at
               your
               aduersarie
               ,
               you
               hitt
               your selfe
               .
               For
               whilst
               you
               say
               with
               S.
               Paule
               ,
               that
               faith
               commeth
               by
               hearinge
               &
               hearinge
               by
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               ;
               you
               prooue
               that
               the
               scripture
               or
               the
               word
               written
               ,
               which
               is
               not
               hearde
               but
               reade
               ;
               is
               not
               the
               first
               meanes
               of
               our
               saith
               ;
               but
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               preached
               (
               as
               S.
               Paule
               sayth
               in
               the
               same
               place
               )
               which
               was
               before
               the
               scriptures
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             From
             hence
             commeth
             all
             this
             warr
             that
             we
             will
             not
             grounde
             our
             faith
             vppon
             the
             totteringe
             
             wall
             of
             humane
             authoritie
             as
             you
             doe
             ,
             but
             cleaue
             fast
             to
             the
             sacred
             scriptures
             beleeuinge
             nothinge
             (
             as
             Paule
             taught
             )
             but
             that
             which
             was
             written
             in
             Moises
             and
             the
             prophetts
             ,
             which
             we
             reioyce
             to
             haue
             made
             the
             meane
             &
             grounde
             of
             our
             religion
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               A
               stoute
               Champion
               I
               wisse
               ,
               that
               after
               the
               first
               blowe
               .
               and
               that
               a
               verie
               weake
               one
               ,
               casteth
               downe
               his
               armes
               ,
               and
               thinkinge
               to
               ouerthrowe
               his
               aduersarie
               with
               wordes
               ,
               falleth
               to
               raylinge
               ,
               as
               if
               he
               hoped
               to
               gaine
               the
               victorie
               ,
               rather
               by
               his
               stinkinge
               breath
               ,
               then
               by
               strength
               of
               hande
               stroakes
               .
               You
               hauing
               been
               att
               the
               schoole
               of
               the
               father
               of
               all
               falsehoode
               ,
               haue
               learned
               to
               call
               the
               churche
               of
               God
               and
               the
               infallible
               authoritie
               thereof
               ,
               the
               totteringe
               wall
               of
               humane
               authoritie
               ,
               which
               the
               holy
               ghoste
               by
               the
               mouth
               of
               this
               Apostle
               ,
               stileth
               the
               piller
               and
               ground
               of
               truth
               ;
               wherby
               as
               by
               manie
               other
               passages
               you
               shewe
               what
               honour
               and
               respect
               you
               beare
               vnto
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               seeinge
               you
               dare
               so
               disdainfullie
               debase
               the
               house
               of
               God
               ,
               which
               they
               so
               highelie
               prise
               and
               extoll
               .
               You
               farther
               glorie
               in
               that
               you
               beleeue
               nothinge
               but
               which
               is
               written
               in
               Moises
               and
               the
               prophettes
               ,
               whereby
               you
               prooue
               your selfe
               to
               be
               a
               Iewe
               and
               no
               Christian
               .
               Either
               retract
               this
               Iewishe
               proposition
               of
               yours
               ,
               or
               blotte
               ,
               out
               of
               your
               Bibles
               the
               whole
               newe
               testament
               ,
               that
               you
               may
               be
               knowne
               to
               be
               noe
               Christian
               ,
               and
               that
               you
               may
               fill
               vppe
               the
               measure
               of
               your
               grande
               mayster
               Martin
               Luther
               who
               hath
               longe
               since
               cast
               out
               diuers
               bookes
               out
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               ,
               besides
               those
               he
               hath
               reiected
               out
               of
               the
               oulde
               .
               You
               seeme
               to
               father
               this
               your
               fowle
               doctrine
               vppon
               S.
               Paule
               (
               thoughe
               you
               dayne
               him
               not
               the
               honour
               of
               S.
               Paule
               )
               but
               why
               doe
               you
               not
               poynte
               att
               the
               place
               where
               he
               teacheth
               it
               !
               If
               S.
               Paule
               had
               been
               of
               this
               minde
               that
               you
               woulde
               seeme
               to
               make
               him
               of
               ,
               in
               vayne
               did
               he
               write
               his
               Epistells
               ,
               &
               in
               vayne
               did
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Apostles
               and
               Euangelists
               
               write
               theire
               workes
               .
               Againe
               suppose
               S.
               Paule
               had
               written
               anie
               such
               thinge
               in
               his
               letters
               or
               Epistles
               ,
               howe
               woulde
               you
               make
               anie
               man
               beleeue
               that
               Epistle
               to
               be
               his
               ,
               and
               therefore
               to
               be
               canonicall
               scriptures
               ,
               vnlesse
               you
               will
               vse
               the
               authoritie
               of
               tradition
               and
               the
               churches
               testimonie
               ?
               All
               the
               witt
               and
               cunning
               you
               haue
               ,
               yea
               thoughe
               you
               borrowed
               all
               that
               of
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               ministers
               in
               the
               worlde
               ,
               will
               not
               shape
               a
               sufficient
               answere
               to
               this
               question
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               And
               which
               if
               we
               coulde
               not
               prooue
               ,
               yett
               canne
               we
               not
               be
               conuinced
               to
               haue
               noe
               faith
               ,
               because
               they
               are
               principles
               against
               which
               none
               dare
               open
               his
               mouth
               ,
               that
               anie
               way
               woulde
               haue
               himselfe
               to
               be
               counted
               a
               Christian
               ,
               as
               S.
            
             
             
               Aug.
               spake
               .
               For
               as
               other
               artes
               and
               sciences
               are
               sufficientlie
               knowne
               &
               credited
               without
               proofe
               of
               theire
               principles
               ,
               so
               matters
               diuine
               are
               perfectlie
               and
               demonstratiuelie
               persuaded
               vnto
               vs
            
             
             
               from
               this
               indemonstrable
               principle
               of
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               saith
               Clemens
               ,
               and
               are
               not
               prooued
               by
               iudgment
               but
               comprehended
               by
               faith
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Why
               doe
               you
               say
               ,
               (
               
                 which
                 i●
                 we
                 coulde
                 not
                 prooue
              
               )
               as
               thoughe
               you
               had
               some
               meane
               to
               prooue
               it
               without
               traditions
               and
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               ?
               But
               they
               are
               principle
               ,
               (
               you
               say
               and
               therefore
               not
               to
               be
               prooued
               .
               The
               scriptures
               are
               principles
               of
               faith
               in
               deede
               in
               a
               certayne
               degree
               ;
               but
               they
               are
               not
               prime
               principles
               which
               onlie
               are
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               themselues
               without
               anie
               further
               proofe
               ,
               vnles
               (
               as
               I
               toulde
               you
               before
               you
               will
               make
               them
               to
               be
               God
               ,
               who
               onlie
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               for
               his
               owne
               proper
               veritie
               and
               all
               other
               verities
               for
               him
               .
               And
               when
               you
               say
               out
               of
               S.
               Aug.
               that
               none
               dare
               open
               their
               mouth
               against
               them
               that
               will
               be
               counted
               a
               christian
               ,
               I
               woulde
               a●ke
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               you
               what
               you
               esteeme
               of
               your
               father
               in
               reformation
               Martin
               Luther
               ,
               whome
               some
               of
               his
               disciples
               as
               you
               knowe
               stile
               the
               seconde
               Elias
               ,
               the
               fifte
               Euangelist
               ,
               the
               second
               or
               thirde
               person
               in
               heauen
               after
               Christe
               ,
               who
               with
               a
               greate
               troope
               of
               his
               schollers
               ,
               doth
               not
               onlie
               open
               his
               mouth
               to
               call
               into
               question
               diuers
               of
               the
               Apostles
               writinges
               ,
               but
               absolutelie
               casteth
               them
               out
               of
               the
               Canon
               ?
               will
               you
               censure
               him
               to
               be
               noe
               christian
               ?
               if
               you
               doe
               you
               shall
               be
               a
               cursed
               childe
               of
               a
               more
               cursed
               father
               .
               Yea
               what
               will
               you
               thinke
               of
               your selfe
               and
               all
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               crewe
               ,
               who
               cast
               out
               of
               the
               Canon
               so
               manie
               of
               those
               bookes
               which
               S.
               Aug.
               whose
               authoritie
               you
               cite
               ,
               alwayes
               esteemed
               to
               be
               canonicall
               scripture
               ?
               See
               whether
               you
               haue
               not
               pronounced
               sentence
               with
               your
               owne
               mouth
               against
               your selfe
               ,
               and
               condemned
               your selfe
               to
               be
               noe
               Christian
               ?
               If
               you
               shoulde
               eate
               noe
               bread
               till
               you
               quitt
               your selfe
               of
               this
               indictment
               ,
               I
               dare
               vndertake
               to
               finde
               you
               bread
               for
               sixe
               pence
               so
               longe
               as
               you
               liue
               .
               Howsoeuer
               ,
               hereby
               at
               least
               it
               is
               cleare
               that
               the
               scriptures
               are
               not
               such
               principles
               of
               our
               faith
               as
               beinge
               not
               prooued
               to
               be
               written
               by
               the
               holy
               Ghost
               ,
               may
               be
               doubted
               of
               ,
               and
               therefore
               necessarilie
               require
               to
               be
               sufficientlie
               prooued
               before
               they
               can
               be
               groundes
               of
               other
               articles
               of
               our
               faith
               .
               Whē
               you
               or
               anie
               for
               you
               shall
               solue
               this
               argument
               ,
               I
               shall
               esteeme
               you
               not
               vnworthy
               of
               a
               doctours
               cap.
               
            
             
               S.
               Aug.
               hath
               good
               reason
               to
               say
               that
               no
               Christian
               dare
               to
               open
               his
               mouth
               against
               the
               scriptures
               receiued
               by
               the
               catholicke
               churche
               .
               For
               so
               shoulde
               he
               be
               worthyly
               esteemed
               as
               a
               publican
               and
               heathen
               by
               the
               
               testimonie
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               himselfe
               .
               And
               therfore
               is
               Luther
               and
               Caluine
               with
               theire
               viperous
               generation
               worthilie
               censured
               as
               heretikes
               ,
               thoughe
               they
               had
               no
               other
               errours
               but
               that
               of
               reiectinge
               with
               obstinacie
               the
               canonicall
               scriptures
               .
            
             
               That
               which
               you
               bringe
               out
               of
               Clemens
               (
               were
               it
               as
               you
               sett
               it
               downe
               )
               is
               nothinge
               to
               your
               purpose
               .
               For
               we
               knowe
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               indemonstrable
               
               by
               reason
               ,
               but
               yett
               to
               be
               prooued
               by
               authoritie
               ,
               as
               all
               other
               articles
               of
               fayth
               are
               .
               And
               nowe
               looke
               ouer
               once
               more
               your
               cardes
               and
               weigh
               well
               with
               your selfe
               ,
               whether
               this
               proposition
               admitted
               for
               true
               ,
               which
               is
               one
               of
               your
               principles
               ;
               
                 That
                 nothinge
                 is
                 to
                 be
                 beleeued
                 that
                 is
                 not
                 prooued
                 by
                 scriptures
                 ,
              
               whether
               (
               I
               say
               )
               the
               Manuall
               doth
               not
               directlie
               conuince
               the
               protestants
               (
               who
               professe
               that
               they
               cannot
               prooue
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               scriptures
               )
               to
               beleeue
               nothinge
               at
               all
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTION
             9.
             
          
        
         
           But
           nowe
           hauinge
           shewed
           the
           absurditie
           of
           theire
           doctrine
           in
           this
           point
           ,
           I
           will
           ioyne
           with
           them
           in
           the
           scriptures
           ,
           as
           they
           themselues
           doe
           desire
           ,
           obseruinge
           this
           methode
           .
           First
           I
           sett
           downe
           the
           Catholicke
           Romane
           beleefe
           in
           direct
           and
           plaine
           positions
           :
           then
           I
           bringe
           in
           proofe
           of
           it
           one
           two
           or
           more
           places
           of
           holy
           scriptures
           ,
           citinge
           the
           auncient
           vulgar
           translation
           and
           often
           tymes
           I
           add
           the
           testimonie
           of
           some
           aunciēt
           father
           of
           the
           first
           fiue
           hundreth
           yeeres
           ,
           vnderstandinge
           such
           scriptures
           as
           I
           cite
           in
           the
           same
           sence
           and
           meaninge
           that
           I
           cite
           them
           for
           .
           Furthermore
           those
           fewe
           places
           of
           scripture
           ,
           which
           seeme
           to
           sounde
           directlie
           against
           the
           catholicke
           faith
           ,
           I
           shewe
           in
           breefe
           howe
           they
           are
           to
           be
           vnderstoode
           .
           And
           last
           of
           all
           I
           putt
           downe
           the
           position
           contradictorie
           to
           the
           Catholicke
           doctrine
           :
           to
           the
           end
           that
           the
           indifferent
           reader
           (
           be
           he
           catholicke
           or
           otherwise
           )
           may
           more
           easily
           iudge
           whether
           doctrine
           hath
           better
           grounde
           in
           holy
           scriptures
           .
           And
           further
           that
           he
           that
           will
           
           impugne
           this
           treatise
           may
           see
           what
           he
           hath
           to
           prooue
           ,
           if
           he
           will
           prooue
           anie
           thinge
           to
           purpose
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Zebull
             iudged
             men
             to
             be
             shadowes
             of
             mountaines
             ;
             and
             you
             Christian
             verities
             nouell
             absurdities
             .
             But
             as
             Nicomachus
             the
             painter
             answered
             a
             skilfull
             felowe
             ,
             that
             iudged
             the
             picture
             of
             Helen
             drawne
             by
             Zeuxes
             not
             to
             be
             beautifull
             ;
             take
             myne
             eyes
             saith
             he
             ,
             &
             thou
             wilt
             th●nke
             her
             to
             be
             a
             goddesse
             :
             So
             if
             you
             looke
             with
             spiritual
             eies
             ,
             you
             woulde
             easilie
             conceiue
             them
             to
             be
             diuine
             verities
             ,
             which
             you
             imagine
             to
             be
             palbable
             absurdities
             .
             For
             lacke
             whereof
             you
             proceede
             to
             beate
             your
             aduersaries
             with
             theire
             owne
             weapons
             of
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             you
             tell
             them
             howe
             you
             will
             marshall
             your
             forces
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Zebull
               (
               if
               you
               say
               true
               )
               imagined
               men
               to
               be
               shaddowes
               ,
               and
               you
               contrariwise
               imagine
               shaddowes
               to
               be
               men
               :
               I
               doubt
               not
               but
               if
               I
               shoulde
               take
               your
               eies
               to
               looke
               vppon
               your
               worke
               ,
               I
               shoulde
               thinke
               as
               you
               doe
               ,
               a
               ●rogge
               to
               be
               as
               faire
               as
               Diana
               .
               You
               say
               I
               proceede
               to
               beate
               my
               aduersaries
               with
               their
               owne
               weapons
               .
               But
               the
               scriptures
               are
               not
               mine
               aduersaries
               weapons
               ,
               but
               as
               they
               steale
               them
               to
               impugne
               the
               truth
               with
               :
               as
               theeues
               doe
               true
               mens
               weapons
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             First
             you
             will
             sett
             downe
             your
             saith
             in
             direct
             positions
             .
             and
             that
             you
             haue
             donne
             as
             streight
             as
             a
             Rams
             horne
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Marke
               you
               the
               crookednes
               and
               discouerit
               ,
               that
               others
               may
               see
               it
               besides
               your selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Secondly
             you
             will
             prooue
             it
             by
             holy
             scriptures
             which
             you
             cite
             to
             as
             good
             purpose
             as
             the
             deuill
             did
             against
             Christ.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Note
               you
               the
               impertinencies
               when
               they
               occurre
               ,
               and
               discouer
               them
               that
               other
               men
               may
               see
               them
               as
               well
               as
               your selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Thirdlie
             you
             will
             produce
             them
             in
             the
             auncient
             
             vulgar
             translation
             :
             no
             maruell
             ,
             for
             that
             hangeth
             betweene
             the
             greeke
             and
             the
             Hebrue
             ,
             as
             Christ
             did
             betweene
             the
             two
             theeues
             in
             your
             friendes
             opinion
             :
             whereas
             it
             hath
             been
             the
             Cameryne
             that
             hath
             vented
             from
             it
             manie
             of
             your
             errours
             .
             Hence
             you
             haue
             marriage
             to
             be
             a
             Sacrament
             ,
             because
             your
             translation
             readeth
             ,
             
               magnum
               hoc
               Sacramentū
            
             ,
             and
             in
             greeke
             it
             is
             Mysterion
             .
             Hence
             almes
             to
             be
             meritorious
             because
             
               huiusmodi
               sacrificijs
               promeritur
               Deus
            
             ,
             and
             in
             the
             greeke
             it
             is
             
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
            
             .
             Hence
             definitions
             of
             councels
             to
             proceede
             frō
             the
             holy
             ghost
             ,
             because
             in
             this
             corrupte
             false
             version
             it
             is
             read
             ,
             the
             holy
             spiritt
             shall
             suggest
             vnto
             you
             all
             thinges
             ,
             that
             I
             will
             say
             ,
             whereas
             it
             is
             in
             the
             originall
             that
             I
             haue
             sayde
             .
             Infinite
             almost
             are
             the
             additions
             ,
             detractions
             ,
             deprauations
             ,
             wherewith
             this
             sweet
             translation
             of
             yours
             hath
             corrupted
             the
             fountaynes
             .
             That
             Isodore
             Clarius
             woundered
             at
             the
             negligence
             of
             learned
             men
             that
             haue
             not
             purged
             it
             from
             these
             inumerable
             errours
             ,
             wherewith
             it
             swarmeth
             and
             wherein
             himselfe
             had
             obserued
             and
             rectified
             eight
             thousande
             places
             ,
             and
             yett
             
             this
             is
             the
             apparrell
             wherein
             you
             will
             sett
             before
             vs
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Take
               you
               here
               the
               counsell
               the
               painter
               gaue
               to
               the
               vnskilfull
               censurer
               of
               Zeuxis
               worke
               ,
               which
               you
               spake
               of
               not
               farr
               before
               ,
               and
               looke
               vppon
               the
               vulgar
               translation
               with
               S.
               Ambrose
               .
               S.
               Aug.
               S
               ,
               Hierome
               and
               S.
               Gregories
               eyes
               ,
               with
               the
               rest
               of
               all
               the
               Latine
               fathers
               ,
               who
               liued
               a
               thousande
               yeeres
               before
               your
               heresie
               was
               hatched
               ,
               whose
               iudgments
               are
               of
               more
               authoritie
               then
               manie
               Clarius
               ,
               and
               you
               will
               finde
               it
               to
               be
               intire
               ,
               perfect
               and
               good
               .
               Your
               exceptions
               against
               it
               with
               manie
               moe
               are
               alreadie
               answered
               by
               Bellarmine
               ,
               which
               answeres
               shall
               stande
               for
               good
               till
               you
               confute
               them
               .
               This
               is
               all
               your
               learning
               ,
               to
               repeate
               olde
               ouerworne
               obiections
               ,
               and
               to
               conceale
               their
               answeres
               ;
               a
               greate
               peece
               of
               witt
               I
               wisse
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Fowerthlie
             you
             will
             adde
             the
             testimonie
             of
             some
             auncient
             father
             ,
             whome
             neuerthelesse
             you
             regarde
             no
             further
             ,
             then
             you
             canne
             make
             them
             speake
             your
             language
             ,
             which
             if
             they
             doe
             not
             ,
             you
             canne
             shaue
             theire
             lockes
             ,
             and
             scrape
             theire
             tounges
             ,
             and
             make
             them
             pronounce
             Siboleth
             for
             Shiboleth
             as
             your
             purginge
             indexes
             doe
             proclayme
             vnto
             the
             worlde
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               arte
               of
               shauinge
               and
               scrapinge
               I
               leaue
               to
               you
               and
               yours
               ,
               who
               are
               so
               accustomed
               thereunto
               that
               they
               cannot
               deale
               otherwise
               .
               Your
               industrie
               in
               this
               kinde
               hath
               been
               sufficientlie
               shewed
               in
               the
               fewe
               precedent
               pages
               .
               Our
               Indexes
               doe
               not
               corrupt
               the
               fathers
               wordes
               and
               sentences
               ,
               as
               you
               foolishlie
               or
               maliciouslie
               insinuate
               ,
               but
               they
               note
               plainlie
               the
               faults
               of
               later
               writers
               ;
               which
               plaine
               and
               open
               dealinge
               if
               you
               would
               vse
               ,
               no
               fault
               would
               be
               found
               with
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Fiftlie
             you
             will
             answere
             ,
             these
             scriptures
             which
             seeme
             to
             contradict
             your
             faith
             .
             Then
             if
             the
             same
             right
             belōge
             to
             Accius
             that
             is
             to
             Titius
             ,
             you
             will
             afforde
             your
             aduersarie
             the
             like
             libertie
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               are
               not
               prohibited
               to
               vse
               it
               to
               your
               best
               and
               moste
               aduantage
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Sixtlie
             you
             will
             sett
             downe
             the
             contradictory
             positions
             ,
             that
             the
             reader
             may
             iudge
             ,
             and
             the
             answerer
             finde
             what
             he
             hath
             to
             prooue
             ,
             if
             he
             will
             prooue
             anie
             thinge
             to
             the
             purpose
             .
             But
             some
             of
             these
             positions
             you
             haue
             deuised
             out
             of
             your
             owne
             brayne
             ,
             which
             noe
             protestant
             euer
             allowed
             ,
             and
             so
             you
             fight
             with
             your
             owne
             shadowe
             ,
             and
             then
             triumph
             as
             Tereus
             the
             poet
             .
             
               Vicimus
               exclamat
               ,
               mecum
               mea
               vota
               feruntur
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               haue
               your
               answere
               to
               this
               in
               the
               refutation
               of
               your
               rolle
               of
               forged
               positions
               .
               Looke
               backe
               thither
               and
               see
               whether
               you
               or
               I
               may
               be
               sayde
               to
               be
               deuisers
               or
               forgers
               of
               false
               positions
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             SECTION
             10.
             
          
        
         
           Who
           is
           to
           vnderstande
           ,
           that
           though
           the
           protestants
           doe
           maintayne
           the
           negatiue
           parte
           in
           almost
           all
           the
           positions
           contiouerted
           betweene
           them
           and
           the
           catholikes
           ,
           yet
           is
           he
           not
           for
           all
           that
           not
           to
           be
           excused
           from
           the
           proofe
           of
           those
           points
           ,
           vnlesse
           he
           will
           withall
           confesse
           that
           in
           thē
           the
           protestants
           haue
           no
           faith
           at
           all
           ,
           but
           onlie
           a
           meere
           denyall
           of
           faith
           .
           For
           faith
           beinge
           not
           a
           simple
           denyinge
           ,
           or
           not
           beleeuinge
           ,
           but
           a
           positiue
           
           assent
           ,
           and
           beleefe
           of
           such
           articles
           ,
           as
           are
           reuealed
           vnto
           vs
           by
           God
           ,
           it
           hath
           positiue
           groundes
           ,
           whereby
           it
           may
           and
           ought
           to
           be
           prooued
           ,
           euen
           in
           those
           points
           which
           are
           negatiue
           .
           And
           therefore
           as
           catholikes
           doe
           prooue
           theire
           faith
           in
           these
           negatiue
           pointes
           ;
           that
           onlie
           faith
           doth
           not
           iustifie
           ;
           that
           we
           are
           not
           certaine
           of
           our
           iustification
           or
           saluation
           ,
           and
           the
           like
           :
           So
           likewise
           are
           the
           protestants
           to
           prooue
           theire
           faith
           in
           these
           :
           that
           there
           is
           no
           purgatorie
           :
           no
           reall
           presence
           :
           no
           sacrifice
           of
           the
           Masse
           ,
           and
           the
           rest
           ;
           vnles
           as
           is
           sayde
           before
           they
           will
           cōfesse
           ,
           that
           they
           haue
           no
           fayth
           in
           these
           points
           ,
           but
           onlie
           a
           meere
           deniall
           of
           faith
           .
        
         
           For
           it
           is
           a
           farre
           different
           thinge
           ,
           not
           to
           beleeue
           purgatorie
           to
           be
           ,
           for
           example
           ;
           and
           to
           beleeue
           purgatory
           not
           to
           be
           .
           The
           first
           being
           a
           mee●e
           negatiue
           or
           deniall
           of
           anie
           act
           of
           faith
           ;
           the
           secōd
           beinge
           a
           positiue
           act
           of
           faith
           of
           a
           negatiue
           obiect
           .
           Hauinge
           thus
           aduertised
           the
           good
           reader
           of
           these
           fewe
           thinges
           ,
           I
           leaue
           thee
           to
           peruse
           the
           treatise
           it selfe
           ,
           desiringe
           thee
           to
           expect
           onlie
           the
           bare
           positions
           prooued
           with
           the
           selfe
           text
           of
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           and
           some
           fewe
           fathers
           ,
           without
           anie
           flourishe
           of
           wordes
           att
           all
           .
           The
           worke
           beinge
           such
           as
           it
           doth
           rather
           resemble
           the
           bones
           of
           a
           great
           bodie
           tyed
           together
           ,
           with
           dryed
           sinewes
           ,
           then
           a
           body
           througlie
           furnished
           with
           fleshe
           and
           other
           habiliments
           of
           friendlie
           nature
           .
           For
           which
           cause
           thoughe
           
           to
           such
           as
           rather
           respect
           fashion
           then
           substance
           ,
           it
           may
           happe
           to
           appeare
           hideous
           ,
           yett
           to
           others
           of
           contrarie
           appetite
           ,
           (
           for
           whose
           contentment
           it
           is
           speciallie
           intended
           )
           it
           will
           not
           peraduenture
           be
           iudged
           altogether
           without
           forme
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             If
             
               non
               credimus
               quia
               non
               legimus
            
             ,
             bea
             
             sufficient
             argument
             ,
             as
             both
             the
             scriptures
             and
             the
             fathers
             teach
             vs
             ,
             we
             shall
             with
             noe
             great
             difficultie
             prooue
             our
             faith
             ,
             as
             well
             in
             the
             negatiue
             as
             in
             the
             affirmatiue
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               
                 Non
                 credimus
                 quia
                 non
                 legimus
              
               is
               not
               a
               sufficient
               argument
               of
               faith
               ,
               but
               in
               such
               points
               only
               as
               are
               prooued
               neither
               by
               tradition
               nor
               by
               scripture
               ,
               of
               which
               sorte
               was
               the
               heresie
               of
               Heluidius
               ;
               denyinge
               the
               perpetuall
               virginitie
               of
               the
               blessed
               virgin
               ;
               which
               falsitie
               beinge
               contrarie
               to
               the
               receiued
               tradition
               of
               the
               whole
               church
               &
               not
               prooued
               by
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               was
               sufficientlie
               refuted
               by
               S.
               Hierome
               sayinge
               ;
               
                 non
                 credimus
                 quia
                 non
                 legimus
              
               .
               Which
               saying
               is
               not
               any
               argument
               for
               the
               deniall
               of
               such
               articles
               of
               faith
               as
               are
               proued
               either
               by
               scripture
               or
               traditions
               ,
               &
               much
               lesse
               for
               them
               that
               are
               proued
               by
               bothe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             For
             S.
             Paule
             proouinge
             Christe
             to
             be
             aboue
             the
             angells
             in
             regarde
             of
             his
             originall
             ,
             that
             he
             is
             the
             sonne
             of
             God.
             Heb.
             1.
             5.
             and
             in
             regarde
             of
             his
             maiestie
             ,
             that
             he
             sitteth
             at
             his
             right
             hande
             verse
             13.
             taketh
             his
             argument
             from
             the
             scriptures
             negatiuelie
             .
             To
             none
             of
             the
             Angells
             he
             sayde
             &c.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               S.
               Paule
               taketh
               not
               his
               negatiue
               argument
               from
               
               the
               scriptures
               onlie
               ,
               but
               absolutly
               from
               all
               diuine
               testimonie
               sayinge
               .
               
                 Cui
                 Angeloru●
                 d●●●
              
               Or
               if
               you
               will
               haue
               S.
               Paule
               to
               argue
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               only
               ,
               tell
               me
               out
               of
               what
               scripture
               he
               concludeth
               this
               .
               
                 Nonne
                 omnes
                 suns
                 administratoris
                 spiritus
                 in
                 ministerium
                 missi
                 propter
                 eo●
                 .
                 oui
                 hereditatem
                 ca●iun●
                 salutis
                 ?
              
               vnles
               you
               will
               suppose
               that
               for
               graunted
               vnto
               you
               ,
               which
               is
               in
               controuersie
               ,
               to
               wit
               that
               there
               i●
               no
               other
               diuine
               testimonie
               but
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               this
               instance
               of
               S.
               Paules
               argument
               serueth
               you
               for
               nothinge
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             S.
             August
             .
             often
             chargeth
             the
             Donatists
             to
             
             prooue
             theire
             churche
             out
             of
             the
             scripture
             ,
             and
             he
             will
             beleeue
             ,
             if
             not
             he
             will
             reiect
             them
             ,
             speciallie
             in
             his
             booke
             
               de
               vnitate
               Ecclesiae
            
             ,
             if
             they
             cannott
             (
             saith
             he
             )
             reade
             these
             thinges
             in
             the
             scripture
             but
             persuade
             them
             by
             their
             contentiōs
             ,
             I
             will
             beleeue
             those
             thinges
             that
             are
             written
             in
             
             the
             scriptures
             :
             I
             beleeue
             not
             those
             thinges
             that
             are
             spoken
             by
             vaine
             heretikes
             ;
             I
             receiue
             not
             that
             which
             from
             without
             the
             scripture
             (
             saith
             Tertullian
             )
             thou
             producest
             of
             thyne
             owne
             ;
             without
             the
             scriptures
             our
             sences
             or
             expositions
             haue
             no
             creditt
             saith
             Origen
             .
             Who
             will
             speake
             when
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             speake
             not
             ?
             saith
             Ambrose
             .
             Many
             saith
             Hierome
             thinke
             Zacharie
             to
             be
             the
             Father
             of
             Iohn
             and
             that
             he
             was
             slayne
             because
             he
             preached
             the
             comminge
             of
             Christe
             .
             This
             thinge
             because
             it
             hath
             no
             authoritie
             from
             scripture
             ,
             is
             with
             like
             facilitie
             contemned
             ,
             as
             it
             is
             prooued
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               All
               these
               sayinges
               of
               the
               fathers
               howe
               trulie
               soeuer
               cited
               (
               which
               I
               will
               not
               stande
               heere
               to
               examine
               )
               doe
               prooue
               (
               if
               they
               prooue
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               that
               you
               are
               
               bound
               to
               produce
               positiue
               testimonies
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               for
               your
               negatiue
               faith
               ,
               if
               you
               will
               be
               thought
               to
               haue
               anie
               faith
               att
               all
               in
               them
               ,
               and
               not
               a
               meere
               denyall
               or
               negation
               of
               faith
               .
               For
               you
               must
               vnderstande
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               one
               thinge
               to
               beleeue
               that
               there
               is
               noe
               purgatorie
               ,
               for
               example
               ,
               and
               another
               thinge
               not
               to
               beleeue
               that
               there
               is
               a
               purgatorie
               .
               The
               first
               beinge
               a
               positiue
               act
               of
               faith
               ,
               requiringe
               also
               a
               positiue
               testimonie
               and
               reuelation
               of
               God
               ,
               thoughe
               of
               a
               negatiue
               article
               ;
               the
               other
               is
               a
               mere
               denyall
               or
               negation
               of
               faith
               of
               a
               positiue
               article
               ,
               and
               is
               as
               well
               in
               horses
               or
               asses
               as
               in
               men
               ;
               onlie
               with
               this
               difference
               ,
               that
               men
               are
               capable
               and
               may
               haue
               the
               contrarie
               positiue
               act
               ;
               but
               horses
               and
               asses
               cannot
               .
               If
               your
               faith
               therefore
               of
               the
               negatiue
               articles
               which
               you
               houlde
               ,
               be
               of
               the
               first
               kinde
               ,
               you
               are
               bounde
               to
               prooue
               it
               by
               positiue
               testimonie
               of
               holy
               scripture
               If
               it
               be
               onlie
               of
               the
               second
               kinde
               ,
               then
               haue
               you
               no
               more
               faith
               in
               these
               articles
               then
               haue
               horses
               ,
               asses
               or
               other
               brute
               beastes
               .
               Nowe
               to
               the
               fathers
               testimonies
               so
               farr
               as
               they
               may
               seeme
               to
               make
               anie
               thinge
               against
               the
               catholicke
               doctrine
               of
               traditions
               or
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               ,
               I
               answere
               (
               supposinge
               they
               sounde
               as
               you
               sett
               them
               downe
               ,
               which
               I
               will
               not
               stande
               to
               examine
               
               here
               )
               that
               whatsoeuer
               is
               prooued
               by
               traditions
               or
               the
               churches
               iudgment
               ,
               is
               warranted
               by
               the
               scripture
               ,
               which
               geueth
               testimonie
               to
               the
               churche
               and
               traditions
               .
               Which
               answere
               is
               S.
               August
               .
               lib.
               1.
               cont
               .
               Crescon
               .
               cap.
               33.
               
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Therefore
             concerninge
             the
             profe
             of
             our
             faith
             in
             the
             negatiue
             points
             of
             purgatorie
             ,
             Reall
             presence
             ,
             Sacrifice
             of
             the
             Masse
             ;
             sith
             there
             is
             noe
             footinge
             for
             them
             in
             the
             worde
             of
             God
             ,
             we
             answere
             with
             Basill
             ,
             that
             it
             is
             not
             faith
             ,
             but
             a
             manifest
             defection
             from
             faith
             to
             denie
             that
             which
             is
             written
             ,
             or
             to
             bringe
             in
             anie
             thinge
             
             that
             is
             not
             written
             ,
             where
             as
             Christ
             IESVS
             our
             Lorde
             saith
             ,
             my
             sheepe
             heare
             my
             voice
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               iudicious
               reader
               shal
               be
               iudge
               whether
               these
               catholike
               articles
               haue
               not
               much
               faster
               footinge
               in
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               then
               your
               contiarie
               negatiues
               .
               Neither
               doth
               S.
               Basill
               anie
               wayes
               fauour
               you
               .
               For
               he
               confirminge
               his
               sayinge
               with
               these
               wordes
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               ,
               my
               sheepe
               heare
               my
               voyce
               ;
               excludeth
               not
               that
               worde
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               which
               is
               more
               properlie
               his
               worde
               then
               the
               scripture
               .
               For
               he
               sayth
               not
               my
               scriptures
               ,
               but
               my
               sheepe
               heare
               my
               voyce
               ;
               therfore
               he
               speaketh
               of
               the
               voyce
               as
               it
               is
               deliuered
               by
               worde
               ,
               and
               not
               as
               it
               is
               written
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             And
             yett
             to
             satisfy
             you
             ,
             we
             shall
             finde
             sufficient
             weapons
             out
             of
             the
             scriptures
             to
             lay
             these
             Anekims
             on
             the
             grounde
             .
             Nowe
             as
             the
             Roman
             Emperour
             that
             meant
             to
             subdue
             Germanie
             ,
             brought
             out
             his
             armie
             ,
             and
             put
             them
             in
             aray
             vppon
             the
             sea
             shoore
             ,
             and
             presentlie
             charged
             them
             to
             gather
             shelles
             ,
             tellinge
             them
             that
             they
             were
             spoyles
             of
             the
             Ocean
             ,
             due
             to
             the
             capitoll
             :
             So
             you
             hauinge
             marshalled
             your
             forces
             and
             putt
             them
             in
             order
             ,
             tell
             your
             reader
             ,
             that
             the
             whole
             body
             of
             them
             is
             but
             a
             Scheleton
             ,
             bare
             bones
             ,
             tyed
             together
             with
             drye
             Sinewes
             ,
             and
             then
             without
             question
             you
             will
             attaine
             a
             glorious
             victorie
             ,
             and
             bringe
             spoyles
             fitt
             for
             the
             vaticane
             .
             Yet
             you
             doubt
             not
             but
             your
             treatise
             will
             please
             some
             mens
             appetite
             ,
             and
             I
             am
             of
             your
             minde
             ,
             for
             like
             lippes
             like
             lettuce
             .
             Thus
             from
             your
             prolusion
             I
             come
             to
             your
             mayne
             battaille
             ,
             which
             thus
             you
             beginne
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               What
               sharpe
               weapons
               you
               wil
               finde
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               for
               ▪
               your
               negatiue
               faith
               ,
               or
               no
               beleefe
               ,
               I
               will
               with
               patience
               expect
               ,
               and
               hauinge
               with
               all
               indifferencie
               pondered
               them
               ,
               I
               will
               tell
               you
               with
               all
               sinceritie
               ,
               what
               weight
               they
               are
               of
               ,
               in
               my
               iudgment
               .
               In
               the
               meane
               tyme
               I
               must
               tel
               you
               ,
               that
               your
               conclusion
               seemeth
               to
               me
               as
               litle
               wittie
               ,
               as
               all
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               discourse
               is
               learned
               ,
               and
               therfore
               findinge
               by
               the
               litle
               experience
               I
               haue
               of
               you
               ,
               that
               such
               lettuce
               sute
               well
               with
               your
               lippes
               ,
               I
               leaue
               them
               wholy
               to
               your selfe
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             .
             The
             first
             controuersie
             .
          
        
         
           It
           is
           knowne
           that
           the
           catholike
           Roman
           churche
           doth
           admitte
           more
           bookes
           and
           parcelles
           of
           holy
           Bible
           for
           scripture
           then
           the
           protestants
           doe
           ,
           and
           cons●quently
           acknowledge
           a
           larger
           Canon
           then
           they
           ,
           and
           yett
           notwithstandinge
           shee
           teacheth
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             The
             Grecians
             are
             euer
             children
             ,
             rightlie
             fitteth
             you
             Romanists
             that
             still
             lispe
             like
             littell
             children
             ,
             and
             excellentlie
             speake
             without
             sence
             For
             to
             say
             the
             catholike
             Romane
             church
             ,
             is
             as
             good
             sence
             as
             the
             vniuersall
             particular
             churche
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               your
               dull
               vnderstandinge
               ,
               and
               not
               our
               lisping
               language
               that
               maketh
               these
               wordes
               
                 the
                 Catholicke
                 Roman
                 ●hur●h
              
               without
               sence
               to
               you
               .
               For
               the
               attribute
               Romane
               doth
               not
               restraine
               anie
               whit
               the
               amplitude
               of
               the
               signification
               of
               that
               worde
               catholicke
               or
               vniuersall
               either
               in
               re●pect
               of
               tyme
               or
               place
               as
               you
               ignorantlie
               imagine
               ;
               but
               doth
               onlie
               distinguish
               it
               from
               all
               such
               sects
               as
               falselie
               and
               presumptuously
               terme
               themselues
               catholike
               ,
               but
               dare
               not
               call
               themselues
               Romās
               or
               Roman
               Catholickes
               .
               As
               in
               former
               ages
               
               the
               worde
               catholike
               was
               added
               to
               the
               name
               christian
               for
               the
               same
               purpose
               as
               auncient
               Pacianus
               signifieth
               Therefore
               when
               we
               say
               a
               Roman
               Catholike
               we
               woulde
               say
               no
               more
               but
               a
               true
               ,
               and
               not
               a
               falsely
               termed
               catholike
               .
               And
               because
               you
               are
               a
               member
               of
               one
               of
               those
               sects
               which
               are
               discried
               by
               this
               worde
               Romane
               ,
               you
               hate
               it
               as
               theeues
               hate
               the
               light
               ,
               whereby
               they
               are
               discouered
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             For
             who
             can
             conceiue
             the
             catholike
             churche
             to
             be
             Roman
             ,
             which
             was
             in
             the
             worlde
             before
             Rome
             it selfe
             was
             ,
             for
             it
             is
             the
             generall
             assembly
             of
             the
             Saints
             Heb.
             12.
             
             ●3
             .
             from
             Abell
             the
             first
             iust
             ,
             vnto
             the
             last
             that
             shall
             beleeue
             in
             Christe
             ,
             as
             S.
             Aug
             :
             speaketh
             .
             Moreouer
             all
             the
             nations
             in
             the
             worlde
             ,
             not
             the
             Romans
             were
             promised
             to
             Christ
             psal
             .
             2.
             
             Aske
             of
             me
             and
             I
             will
             geue
             thee
             the
             gentiles
             for
             thine
             inheritance
             ,
             and
             the
             vttermost
             partes
             of
             the
             earth
             for
             thy
             possession
             ,
             and
             so
             S.
             Aug
             :
             writeth
             ,
             that
             God
             promised
             to
             the
             seede
             of
             Abraham
             ,
             not
             the
             Romans
             ,
             but
             all
             the
             gentils
             ,
             and
             sealed
             it
             with
             an
             oathe
             ,
             by
             which
             promise
             it
             came
             to
             passe
             ,
             that
             manie
             nations
             not
             contayned
             vnder
             the
             Roman
             iurisdiction
             receiued
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             and
             were
             ioyned
             vnto
             the
             churche
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
               
            
             
               There
               is
               no
               greater
               difficultie
               to
               conceiue
               howe
               the
               catholike
               churche
               may
               be
               called
               Roman
               ,
               then
               howe
               the
               christian
               churche
               (
               which
               denomination
               began
               first
               at
               Antioch
               is
               called
               Catholike
               .
               And
               if
               you
               would
               knowe
               he
               reason
               why
               it
               is
               denominated
               of
               Rome
               rather
               then
               of
               Antioche
               or
               Hierusalem
               ,
               it
               is
               because
               S.
               Peeter
               ,
               who
               was
               Bishoppe
               of
               Rome
               receiued
               promise
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               ,
               that
               his
               churche
               shoulde
               be
               builte
               vppon
               him
               ,
               as
               vppon
               a
               
               firme
               rocke
               ,
               and
               that
               hell
               gates
               shoulde
               neuer
               preuaile
               against
               it
               .
               Which
               promise
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               hauinge
               performed
               ,
               it
               is
               come
               to
               passe
               that
               the
               churche
               of
               Christe
               which
               was
               first
               called
               christian
               ,
               then
               Catholike
               ,
               is
               nowe
               called
               Roman
               ,
               and
               thus
               much
               for
               the
               name
               Romā
               .
               Nowe
               I
               woulde
               haue
               you
               marke
               ,
               that
               whatsoeuer
               you
               say
               in
               proofe
               of
               this
               attribute
               catholike
               ,
               you
               say
               in
               condemnation
               of
               your
               owne
               protestanticall
               assemblies
               ,
               which
               were
               neuer
               hearde
               of
               before
               Martin
               Luther
               ,
               no
               more
               then
               the
               Arrians
               were
               before
               Arrius
               ,
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               sects
               and
               heresies
               before
               theire
               maisters
               and
               authours
               .
               Which
               one
               argument
               had
               you
               but
               anie
               indifferencie
               ,
               ioyned
               with
               anie
               meane
               iudgment
               ,
               woulde
               be
               sufficient
               to
               make
               you
               detest
               the
               felloweshippe
               of
               such
               newe
               maisters
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Besides
             the
             moderne
             Romane
             churche
             hath
             made
             a
             defection
             from
             that
             which
             the
             primatiue
             Roman
             church
             maintayned
             ,
             in
             so
             much
             that
             S.
             Paules
             Epistles
             written
             to
             the
             auncient
             Romās
             ,
             may
             iustlie
             be
             called
             an
             antilogie
             of
             that
             Religion
             which
             nowe
             is
             professed
             in
             the
             cittie
             of
             Rome
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Some
               substantiall
               proofe
               of
               this
               your
               assertion
               ,
               woulde
               assuredlie
               gett
               you
               the
               victorie
               in
               all
               the
               rest
               you
               contende
               aboute
               ,
               without
               all
               further
               dispute
               .
               But
               the
               manifest
               falsitie
               of
               your
               affirmation
               ,
               doth
               not
               only
               make
               your
               cause
               desperate
               ,
               but
               also
               deepelie
               woundeth
               your
               creditt
               ,
               hauinge
               no
               care
               to
               affirme
               so
               apparant
               vntruthes
               without
               the
               slenderest
               shewe
               of
               proofe
               or
               probabilitie
               att
               all
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Besides
             we
             doe
             not
             finde
             in
             anie
             auncient
             creede
             either
             that
             of
             the
             Apostles
             or
             of
             Nice
             ,
             or
             in
             anie
             other
             of
             the
             auncient
             counsells
             ,
             that
             the
             
             churche
             was
             stiled
             the
             cathol●cke
             Roman
             .
             Finallie
             howe
             canne
             a
             parte
             be
             the
             whole
             ?
             Nowe
             the
             Roman
             churche
             (
             thoughe
             shee
             were
             pure
             )
             in
             her
             farthest
             extent
             ,
             is
             but
             a
             parte
             of
             the
             vniuersall
             churche
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Haue
               you
               not
               yett
               learned
               howe
               vaine
               a
               thinge
               it
               is
               to
               argue
               
                 ab
                 authorita
                 ●
                 ne●a
                 ua
              
               ?
               Produce
               you
               some
               aun
               ient
               creede
               ,
               where
               the
               churche
               is
               called
               the
               christian
               churche
               ,
               which
               thoughe
               you
               cannot
               doe
               ;
               yett
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               not
               denie
               the
               catholicke
               churche
               to
               be
               rightlie
               so
               called
               .
               Neither
               is
               the
               Roman
               church
               taken
               for
               a
               parte
               of
               the
               catholike
               churche
               ,
               as
               you
               either
               falselie
               or
               foolishlie
               surmise
               ,
               but
               for
               the
               whole
               :
               as
               the
               kinge
               of
               England
               is
               not
               taken
               onlie
               to
               be
               kinge
               of
               Englande
               but
               of
               the
               rest
               of
               his
               kingdomes
               also
               ,
               the
               whole
               takinge
               name
               of
               one
               parte
               ,
               as
               is
               ordinarie
               euen
               in
               common
               speach
               which
               you
               cannot
               be
               ignorant
               of
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Yett
             you
             say
             this
             vniuersall
             particular
             churche
             admitteth
             a
             larger
             Canon
             then
             the
             protestants
             ,
             you
             meane
             the
             Apocripha
             .
             And
             so
             it
             standeth
             her
             in
             hand
             ,
             otherwise
             shee
             might
             bid
             a
             dieu
             to
             diuerse
             profitable
             points
             that
             helpe
             her
             to
             vphoulde
             her
             Monarchie
             .
             But
             the
             churche
             of
             God
             before
             Christ
             receiued
             them
             not
             ,
             but
             the
             same
             which
             the
             protestants
             doe
             embrace
             .
             Neither
             read
             we
             that
             Christe
             or
             anie
             of
             his
             Apostles
             did
             cite
             anie
             testimonie
             out
             of
             them
             ,
             to
             confirme
             any
             doctr●ne
             by
             them
             ,
             which
             they
             did
             out
             of
             all
             the
             canonicall
             bookes
             .
             Besides
             if
             we
             followe
             S.
             
             August
             .
             iudgment
             ,
             whereby
             we
             may
             discerne
             suspitious
             writinge
             from
             canonicall
             ,
             then
             these
             
             wil
             easilie
             appeare
             to
             be
             conterfaites
             .
             First
             saith
             he
             they
             are
             not
             such
             as
             the
             churche
             credited
             ,
             &
             received
             into
             canonicall
             authoritie
             .
             Secondlie
             there
             be
             manie
             thinges
             imbarked
             in
             them
             which
             Apostolicall
             rule
             of
             faith
             and
             sound
             doctrine
             doth
             contradict
             ,
             both
             these
             are
             verified
             of
             ,
             the
             Apocripha
             .
             For
             neither
             the
             churche
             of
             God
             before
             Christ
             receiued
             them
             ,
             to
             whom
             were
             committed
             the
             oracles
             of
             God.
             Rom.
             3.
             2.
             
             (
             which
             Christe
             woulde
             haue
             reprooued
             them
             for
             ,
             if
             they
             had
             without
             iust
             cause
             reiected
             them
             ,
             as
             well
             as
             he
             did
             reprehend
             them
             for
             the
             misinterpretinge
             of
             the
             canonicall
             bookes
             )
             neither
             yett
             longe
             after
             Christe
             ,
             did
             the
             Christian
             churche
             imbrace
             them
             .
             And
             besides
             in
             the
             bookes
             them selues
             :
             there
             are
             certaine
             brandes
             ,
             whereby
             they
             may
             be
             discerned
             from
             the
             canonicall
             .
             First
             the
             addition
             
             vnto
             the
             booke
             of
             Hester
             saith
             ,
             that
             Mardocheus
             had
             receiued
             rewardes
             for
             the
             detection
             of
             the
             conspiracie
             of
             the
             kinges
             Chamberlaynes
             ;
             the
             true
             Hester
             sayth
             he
             receiued
             none
             .
             The
             suppositius
             
             Hester
             saith
             ,
             that
             Haman
             intended
             the
             the
             destruction
             of
             Mardocheus
             for
             detectinge
             the
             Eunuches
             .
             Hest.
             12.
             6.
             
             The
             true
             Hester
             saith
             for
             
             denyinge
             him
             worshippe
             Hester
             .
             3.
             5.
             
             The
             true
             Hester
             the
             kinge
             looked
             gratiouslie
             vppon
             her
             :
             the
             conterfeit
             ,
             he
             looked
             angerlie
             .
             The
             booke
             of
             Baruch
             saith
             that
             the
             cittie
             of
             Hierusalem
             was
             taken
             and
             burnt
             at
             the
             same
             tyme
             :
             Ieremie
             teacheth
             the
             contrarie
             &
             the
             bookes
             of
             the
             kinges
             .
             The
             additions
             vnto
             Daniell
             say
             that
             when
             Danyell
             deliuered
             Susanna
             he
             was
             a
             childe
             :
             the
             true
             
             Daniell
             saith
             that
             he
             with
             two
             others
             made
             by
             
             the
             kinge
             were
             chiefe
             ouer
             120.
             princes
             ,
             that
             they
             might
             take
             all
             the
             accompts
             of
             the
             kingdome
             ,
             and
             the
             kinge
             might
             not
             be
             troubled
             .
             But
             children
             vse
             not
             to
             be
             sett
             ouer
             such
             affaires
             .
             Commentitiues
             Daniell
             saith
             in
             the
             storie
             of
             Bell
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             fed
             by
             Abacucke
             .
             14.
             36.
             whereas
             Abacucke
             prophesied
             longe
             before
             the
             captiuitie
             1.
             6.
             
             In
             the
             booke
             of
             Tobie
             cap.
             12.
             15
             :
             the
             Angell
             calleth
             himselfe
             Raphaell
             the
             Angell
             of
             the
             Lorde
             ;
             but
             chapter
             the
             5.
             12.
             he
             is
             of
             the
             kinred
             of
             Ananias
             and
             Azarias
             the
             greate
             ,
             if
             he
             be
             the
             Angell
             of
             the
             Lorde
             ,
             he
             cannot
             be
             the
             sonne
             of
             a
             man.
             As
             true
             is
             that
             medecine
             wherwith
             the
             deuill
             is
             driuen
             away
             :
             but
             corporall
             creatures
             vse
             not
             to
             make
             anie
             impression
             into
             a
             substance
             simply
             intellectuall
             as
             deuills
             be
             .
             In
             Iudith
             the
             cruell
             murther
             committed
             by
             Symeon
             and
             Leui
             is
             propounded
             to
             be
             imitated
             cap.
             8.
             23.
             which
             Genesis
             the
             49.
             is
             reprehended
             and
             accursed
             .
             The
             booke
             of
             wisdome
             is
             falselie
             intituled
             ,
             as
             it
             had
             been
             composed
             by
             Salomon
             ,
             whereas
             the
             author
             of
             it
             was
             Philo
             the
             Iewe.
             Ecclesiasticus
             craueth
             pardon
             if
             he
             come
             shorte
             in
             some
             wordes
             ,
             which
             the
             penmen
             of
             the
             holy
             Ghost
             vsed
             not
             to
             doe
             .
             In
             the
             bookes
             of
             the
             Maccabies
             a
             parricide
             is
             commended
             that
             layde
             handes
             on
             himselfe
             ,
             which
             is
             forbidden
             by
             the
             lawe
             .
             So
             your
             longe
             Canon
             hath
             but
             certayn
             inches
             that
             are
             true
             and
             perfect
             ;
             the
             rest
             are
             but
             leaden
             and
             crooked
             ;
             yet
             for
             all
             this
             you
             say
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               That
               the
               catholike
               Romane
               churche
               admitteth
               a
               larger
               Canon
               ,
               that
               is
               (
               as
               the
               Manuall
               saith
               )
               moe
               bookes
               and
               parcells
               of
               the
               Bible
               for
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               then
               the
               protestants
               doe
               ,
               is
               so
               manifest
               that
               you
               dare
               not
               denie
               it
               .
               Nowe
               whether
               these
               bookes
               ,
               and
               parcells
               of
               bookes
               be
               apocripha
               or
               noe
               ,
               is
               in
               controuersie
               ,
               you
               affirminge
               them
               so
               to
               be
               ,
               and
               we
               denyinge
               it
               .
               Which
               question
               cannot
               here
               be
               disputed
               or
               discussed
               for
               confoundinge
               of
               matters
               .
               Onlie
               this
               I
               say
               by
               the
               way
               to
               your
               obiections
               made
               against
               them
               ;
               that
               if
               you
               doe
               stand
               to
               S.
               Aug
               iudgment
               in
               this
               pointe
               (
               to
               whome
               you
               make
               shewe
               to
               appeale
               )
               the
               cause
               is
               lost
               on
               your
               parte
               ,
               and
               if
               you
               will
               not
               
               beleeue
               me
               ,
               reade
               his
               seconde
               booke
               
                 de
                 Doctrina
                 Christiana
                 cap
              
               5.
               
               &
               6.
               and
               be
               your
               owne
               iudge
               .
               Againe
               your
               exceptions
               against
               the
               bookes
               in
               controuersie
               are
               such
               ,
               as
               if
               they
               were
               admitted
               for
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               them
               Apocripha
               ,
               I
               dare
               vndertake
               to
               prooue
               all
               or
               the
               most
               parte
               of
               the
               bookes
               in
               the
               Bible
               to
               be
               Apocripha
               .
               And
               this
               I
               will
               make
               good
               whensoeuer
               you
               dare
               vppon
               equall
               conditions
               to
               chalenge
               me
               therunto
               .
               See
               therfore
               I
               pray
               what
               a
               friende
               you
               are
               to
               the
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               that
               open
               such
               and
               so
               wide
               a
               gappe
               ,
               to
               take
               quite
               away
               all
               scripture
               .
               And
               this
               shall
               suffice
               for
               answere
               to
               all
               your
               tedious
               discourse
               in
               this
               section
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             Catholike
             position
             the
             first
             .
          
        
         
           That
           all
           such
           articles
           as
           by
           her
           (
           the
           Catholike
           Roman
           churche
           )
           and
           the
           protestants
           ,
           are
           beleeued
           and
           holden
           for
           articles
           of
           faith
           ,
           are
           not
           so
           expressely
           contayned
           in
           the
           holy
           scriptures
           ,
           as
           out
           of
           them
           onlie
           full
           proofe
           may
           be
           made
           thereof
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             This
             position
             is
             so
             doubtfullie
             sett
             downe
             as
             
             if
             of
             purpose
             you
             would
             walke
             in
             a
             cloude
             ,
             that
             your
             reader
             might
             not
             perceiue
             you
             .
             For
             if
             by
             expresselie
             ,
             you
             meane
             wordes
             and
             sillables
             ;
             then
             it
             is
             true
             that
             all
             articles
             of
             faith
             are
             not
             contayned
             in
             holy
             scriptures
             in
             so
             manie
             wordes
             :
             but
             if
             you
             meane
             the
             sence
             and
             substance
             ,
             and
             that
             which
             may
             be
             deduced
             by
             necessarie
             consequence
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             false
             that
             full
             proofe
             cannot
             be
             made
             of
             all
             articles
             of
             faith
             out
             of
             scripture
             .
             In
             the
             former
             sence
             ,
             there
             is
             not
             anie
             protestant
             ,
             that
             hath
             taught
             that
             the
             scriptures
             expresselie
             contayne
             all
             articles
             of
             faith
             ,
             and
             this
             you
             papists
             knowe
             .
             For
             Eckius
             reprooueth
             the
             Lutherans
             ,
             for
             that
             they
             will
             haue
             nothinge
             beleeued
             ,
             but
             which
             is
             expresse
             scripture
             ,
             or
             can
             be
             prooued
             out
             of
             scriptures
             .
             So
             that
             your
             owne
             side
             perceiue
             we
             beleeue
             thinges
             that
             are
             not
             expresselie
             sett
             downe
             in
             scriptures
             ,
             but
             nothinge
             which
             hath
             not
             a
             iust
             proofe
             out
             of
             it
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               cloude
               is
               in
               your
               owne
               brayne
               ,
               and
               not
               in
               my
               position
               ,
               which
               is
               neither
               darke
               not
               doubtfull
               but
               to
               you
               ;
               who
               perceiuinge
               it
               to
               presse
               and
               pinch
               ,
               woulde
               gladlie
               finde
               some
               doubtefullnes
               therein
               .
               For
               if
               you
               had
               not
               been
               either
               blinde
               or
               blinde
               foulded
               ,
               you
               would
               haue
               seen
               that
               the
               position
               denyeth
               full
               proofe
               of
               all
               articles
               of
               faith
               out
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               in
               the
               same
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               that
               you
               professe
               to
               mayntaine
               the
               affirmatiue
               ;
               and
               not
               onlie
               the
               expresse
               contayninge
               them
               in
               so
               manie
               wordes
               or
               sillabels
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             ,
             proofe
             of
             the
             Catholike
             position
             .
          
        
         
           The
           articles
           which
           protestants
           beleeue
           to
           be
           of
           faith
           as
           well
           as
           Catholikes
           ,
           and
           
           yett
           are
           not
           contayned
           expresselie
           in
           holy
           scripture
           ,
           are
           manie
           ,
           but
           we
           will
           geue
           instance
           but
           onlie
           in
           a
           fewe
           .
           First
           that
           there
           are
           three
           distinct
           persons
           and
           one
           only
           substance
           or
           essence
           in
           God.
           Secondlie
           that
           the
           second
           and
           thirde
           persons
           are
           of
           the
           same
           substance
           ,
           and
           of
           equall
           glorie
           with
           the
           first
           .
           Thirdelie
           that
           the
           thirde
           person
           proceedeth
           from
           the
           second
           and
           from
           the
           first
           .
           Fowerthly
           that
           there
           are
           two
           distinct
           and
           compleat
           natures
           in
           our
           Sauiour
           Christ
           ,
           and
           but
           one
           onlie
           person
           .
           Fiftlie
           that
           there
           are
           in
           him
           two
           willes
           and
           two
           operations
           ,
           to
           witt
           of
           God
           and
           man
           ,
           aboute
           all
           which
           haue
           been
           diuerse
           heresies
           as
           is
           wel
           known
           to
           the
           learned
           .
           And
           thoughe
           all
           these
           articles
           haue
           most
           true
           grounde
           and
           proofe
           in
           holy
           scriptures
           ,
           yett
           are
           they
           not
           so
           expressely
           contayned
           therein
           ,
           as
           they
           may
           be
           fullie
           prooued
           by
           them
           alone
           .
           One
           example
           shall
           serue
           for
           al
           ;
           to
           prooue
           the
           sonne
           of
           God
           to
           be
           consubstantial
           or
           of
           one
           substance
           with
           the
           father
           ,
           the
           catholikes
           doe
           alleage
           (
           and
           trulie
           )
           this
           testimonie
           (
           I
           and
           
           the
           father
           are
           one
           )
           yett
           because
           there
           are
           moe
           means
           of
           being
           one
           ,
           thē
           in
           substāce
           ,
           as
           namelie
           ,
           to
           be
           of
           one
           wil
           ,
           desire
           ,
           &
           affectiō
           ,
           of
           which
           sorte
           of
           vnitie
           speciallie
           the
           Arrians
           did
           expound
           this
           place
           ,
           alleaginge
           for
           themselues
           that
           testimonie
           (
           I
           pray
           that
           
           they
           al
           may
           be
           one
           as
           thou
           father
           in
           me
           ,
           and
           I
           in
           thee
           ,
           that
           they
           also
           in
           vs
           may
           be
           
           one
           )
           Which
           cannot
           be
           vnderstoode
           of
           vnitie
           in
           substance
           .
           Therefore
           this
           testimonie
           without
           the
           interpretation
           of
           the
           churche
           (
           which
           is
           the
           piller
           of
           truth
           )
           doth
           not
           fullie
           prooue
           the
           father
           and
           the
           sonne
           to
           be
           one
           in
           substance
           .
           The
           like
           may
           be
           sayd
           of
           the
           other
           articles
           here
           mentioned
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             What
             a
             gap
             you
             opē
             to
             Gentilisme
             ,
             Iudaisme
             and
             Heresie
             ,
             when
             you
             deny
             the
             maine
             groundes
             of
             christianitie
             to
             haue
             a
             full
             proofe
             from
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             but
             require
             the
             helpe
             of
             tradition
             and
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             as
             if
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             church
             woulde
             preuaile
             with
             them
             ,
             with
             whom
             the
             scriptures
             will
             not
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Are
               you
               a
               doctor
               in
               diuinitie
               ,
               and
               thinke
               a
               greate
               gappe
               to
               be
               opened
               to
               Gentilisme
               and
               Iudai●me
               by
               denyinge
               the
               mistery
               of
               the
               blessed
               Trinitie
               ,
               to
               be
               fullie
               and
               clearlie
               prooued
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               only
               ?
               would
               you
               if
               you
               had
               to
               doe
               with
               them
               goe
               aboute
               to
               prooue
               that
               mysterie
               ,
               either
               out
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               to
               the
               Iewes
               ,
               or
               out
               of
               the
               whole
               Bible
               to
               the
               Gentiles
               ?
               It
               would
               well
               become
               your
               iudgment
               indeede
               ,
               and
               suteth
               well
               with
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               learned
               discourses
               .
               But
               whatsoeuer
               you
               would
               doe
               in
               that
               case
               ,
               I
               knowe
               that
               noe
               man
               indued
               with
               one
               dramme
               of
               witt
               ,
               would
               thinke
               that
               kinde
               of
               proofe
               to
               haue
               anie
               force
               with
               them
               that
               receiue
               not
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               thoughe
               they
               were
               as
               cleare
               and
               expresse
               as
               you
               coulde
               desire
               them
               to
               be
               .
               And
               a
               for
               the
               gap
               opened
               hereby
               to
               heresie
               :
               Lett
               the
               worlde
               that
               seeth
               so
               manie
               sects
               of
               heresies
               spronge
               out
               of
               one
               Luther
               ,
               iudge
               whether
               your
               paradoxe
               of
               the
               sufficiencie
               of
               onlie
               scripture
               ,
               without
               respecte
               to
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               and
               iudgment
               ,
               hath
               not
               brought
               them
               forth
               
               and
               begotten
               them
               .
               Lett
               the
               example
               of
               Legatt
               testifie
               whether
               your
               position
               or
               myne
               open
               the
               gap
               wider
               to
               heresie
               .
               Finallie
               lett
               all
               the
               heresies
               in
               the
               worlde
               witnes
               ,
               whether
               the
               contemninge
               of
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               in
               expoundinge
               of
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               hath
               not
               been
               the
               mother
               of
               them
               all
               .
               Take
               away
               therefore
               your
               paradoxe
               of
               the
               fulnes
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               put
               my
               position
               of
               the
               necessitie
               of
               the
               churches
               iudgment
               in
               declaringe
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               scriptures
               in
               practise
               ,
               and
               the
               gap
               to
               all
               heresie
               will
               quicklie
               be
               so
               fast
               shutt
               ,
               that
               shee
               will
               neuer
               more
               appeare
               in
               the
               worlde
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             in
             defence
             of
             that
             royall
             and
             holy
             faith
             ,
             we
             are
             verie
             confident
             that
             all
             these
             articles
             expressed
             by
             you
             ,
             haue
             both
             a
             true
             and
             full
             proofe
             from
             them
             .
             The
             trinitie
             of
             persons
             in
             the
             vnitie
             of
             one
             essence
             is
             plainlie
             taught
             :
             otherwise
             what
             man
             or
             Angell
             durst
             prie
             into
             that
             maiestie
             lest
             he
             were
             oppressed
             of
             glorie
             .
             There
             be
             three
             that
             
             beare
             witnes
             in
             heauen
             ,
             Father
             ,
             worde
             &
             holy
             ghost
             and
             these
             three
             are
             one
             saith
             S.
             Iohn
             :
             And
             Mathewe
             28.
             
             Baptise
             them
             in
             the
             name
             of
             the
             
             Father
             ,
             the
             sonne
             ,
             and
             the
             holy
             Ghost
             .
             Which
             places
             as
             they
             prooue
             the
             vnitie
             of
             the
             essence
             in
             trinitie
             of
             persons
             ,
             so
             likewise
             doe
             they
             ,
             theire
             comon
             glorie
             ,
             because
             to
             be
             ,
             and
             to
             be
             glorious
             in
             the
             God
             heade
             ,
             is
             all
             one
             as
             S.
             Aug.
             argueth
             .
             The
             procession
             of
             the
             holy
             ghost
             from
             the
             father
             and
             the
             sonne
             is
             fullie
             taught
             .
             Io.
             15.
             26.
             where
             he
             is
             termed
             the
             ,
             Spiritt
             of
             truth
             that
             proceedeth
             frō
             the
             father
             ,
             which
             verie
             worde
             S.
             Ioh.
             vseth
             of
             the
             to
             w-edged
             sworde
             ,
             proceedinge
             out
             of
             the
             mouth
             of
             Christe
             ,
             which
             is
             nothinge
             but
             the
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             spiritt
             of
             his
             lippes
             ,
             wherwith
             he
             shall
             striks
             the
             wicked
             ,
             as
             Esay
             prophesieth
             .
             cap.
             11.
             4.
             
             And
             with
             the
             breath
             of
             his
             lippes
             he
             shall
             slay
             the
             wicked
             .
             And
             to
             shewe
             his
             procession
             ,
             as
             well
             from
             the
             sonne
             as
             from
             the
             father
             ,
             Christe
             breathed
             vppon
             his
             disciples
             and
             sayde
             .
             Receiue
             the
             holie
             ghost
             ,
             and
             for
             that
             he
             is
             called
             the
             spiritt
             of
             the
             sonne
             .
             Gal.
             4.
             6.
             
             And
             because
             yee
             are
             sonnes
             ,
             God
             hath
             sent
             forth
             the
             spirit
             of
             his
             sonne
             into
             your
             hearts
             which
             crieth
             Abba
             father
             .
             That
             there
             be
             two
             destinct
             natures
             in
             Christ
             &
             one
             onlie
             person
             Esay
             prophesied
             ,
             cap.
             1.
             14.
             
             Behoulde
             the
             Virgin
             shall
             conceiue
             and
             beare
             a
             sonne
             and
             shee
             shall
             call
             his
             name
             Immanuell
             .
             And
             like
             Ierc.
             cap.
             23.
             6.
             
             In
             his
             dayes
             Iuda
             shall
             be
             saued
             ,
             and
             Israell
             shall
             will
             safelie
             ,
             and
             this
             is
             the
             name
             whereby
             they
             shall
             cal
             him
             ,
             the
             lorde
             our
             righteousnes
             :
             which
             S.
             Iohn
             fulfilled
             .
             Io.
             1.
             14.
             
             And
             the
             worde
             was
             made
             flesh
             and
             dwelte
             amonge
             vs
             ,
             and
             we
             sawe
             the
             glorie
             thereof
             ,
             as
             the
             glorie
             of
             the
             onlie
             begotten
             of
             the
             father
             ,
             full
             of
             grace
             and
             truth
             ,
             of
             which
             two
             distinct
             natures
             there
             be
             two
             wills
             and
             two
             operations
             as
             S.
             Luke
             sheweth
             ,
             not
             my
             will
             but
             thy
             will
             be
             dōne
             ;
             
             For
             he
             that
             hath
             two
             perfect
             natures
             must
             needes
             haue
             theire
             natural
             properties
             &
             operations
             ,
             but
             to
             wil
             &
             worke
             are
             natural
             proprieties
             &
             operations
             ,
             followinge
             both
             natures
             in
             Christ
             :
             therfore
             he
             had
             two
             willes
             and
             two
             operations
             .
             All
             which
             places
             are
             vrged
             by
             the
             auncient
             Fathers
             and
             late
             writers
             protestants
             and
             papists
             to
             confirme
             these
             seuerall
             points
             ,
             in
             so
             much
             that
             you
             are
             forced
             to
             graunt
             that
             they
             haue
             a
             
             true
             proofe
             from
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             .
             And
             then
             I
             may
             say
             as
             S.
             August
             .
             saith
             to
             Maximian
             the
             Arrian
             .
             
               Si
               vox
               ista
               vera
               est
               quaestio
               illa
               finita
               est
               .
            
             But
             you
             papists
             haue
             nimbler
             witts
             then
             the
             fathers
             ,
             for
             you
             are
             not
             content
             with
             truth
             but
             you
             must
             haue
             full
             proofe
             ,
             as
             thoughe
             that
             proofe
             which
             to
             a
             man
             is
             true
             ,
             were
             not
             full
             .
             For
             there
             can
             be
             noe
             fuller
             proofe
             ,
             then
             that
             which
             doth
             conuince
             and
             satisfie
             ,
             the
             vnderstandinge
             ,
             but
             a
             true
             proofe
             doth
             so
             :
             For
             what
             is
             truth
             but
             
               adaequatio
               rei
               &
               intellectus
            
             .
             And
             yett
             if
             there
             be
             anie
             difference
             betweene
             true
             &
             full
             ,
             these
             articles
             are
             fullie
             concluded
             out
             of
             the
             scripture
             .
             For
             beinge
             articles
             of
             the
             Apostolicke
             creede
             ,
             they
             are
             plainlie
             sett
             downe
             as
             Bellarmine
             confesseth
             out
             of
             S.
             Aug.
             And
             some
             of
             them
             questioned
             by
             the
             Arrians
             ,
             as
             the
             consubstantialitie
             of
             the
             sonne
             (
             which
             in
             the
             next
             place
             you
             except
             against
             )
             he
             saith
             that
             of
             these
             questions
             which
             then
             were
             moued
             ,
             
               clarissima
               extabant
               in
               scripturis
               testimonia
               ,
               quae
               sine
               dubio
               antep̄onenda
               sunt
               omnibus
               conciliorum
               testimonijs
               .
            
             These
             thinges
             then
             that
             haue
             most
             cleare
             testimonies
             out
             of
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             to
             be
             preferred
             before
             all
             testimonies
             of
             councells
             ,
             haue
             a
             full
             proofe
             from
             them
             ,
             but
             such
             are
             some
             of
             these
             articles
             ,
             yett
             you
             proceede
             to
             fight
             against
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             wringe
             from
             Christians
             ,
             one
             of
             the
             strongest
             Bulwarkes
             they
             haue
             against
             Arrians
             .
             I
             and
             the
             consubstantialitie
             of
             the
             sonne
             ,
             because
             the
             Arrians
             interpreted
             it
             of
             vnitie
             of
             concorde
             and
             will.
             But
             if
             
             the
             mist
             of
             poperie
             had
             not
             blinded
             your
             eyes
             ,
             you
             might
             easily
             haue
             seen
             vnanswerable
             arguments
             out
             of
             the
             text
             to
             prooue
             the
             sonne
             consubstantiall
             to
             the
             father
             ,
             and
             so
             to
             be
             vnderstoode
             of
             the
             vnitie
             of
             substance
             .
             For
             the
             Iewes
             require
             him
             to
             tell
             them
             plainely
             whether
             he
             be
             that
             Christ
             ,
             he
             answereth
             directlie
             he
             is
             ,
             there
             fore
             the
             naturall
             and
             consubstantiall
             sonne
             of
             God
             ,
             as
             he
             prooueth
             .
             Matt.
             22.
             45.
             out
             of
             the
             Psalme
             .
             100.
             
             If
             then
             Dauid
             called
             him
             Lorde
             ,
             howe
             is
             he
             then
             his
             sonne
             ?
          
           
             Secondlie
             he
             that
             geueth
             eternall
             life
             to
             his
             sheepe
             ,
             so
             that
             none
             can
             take
             them
             out
             of
             his
             hande
             ,
             is
             of
             the
             same
             power
             ,
             and
             consequentlie
             of
             the
             same
             nature
             with
             God
             ;
             For
             what
             is
             it
             to
             be
             God
             ,
             but
             to
             be
             of
             the
             highest
             and
             greatest
             power
             ,
             then
             which
             none
             greater
             ?
             but
             the
             sonne
             doth
             soe
             ;
             ver
             .
             28.
             
             &
             29.
             
             And
             I
             geue
             vnto
             them
             eternall
             life
             ,
             and
             they
             shall
             neuer
             perish
             ,
             neither
             shall
             anie
             plucke
             them
             out
             of
             myne
             hande
             .
             Thirdlie
             the
             Iewes
             tooke
             vppe
             stones
             to
             stone
             him
             ,
             as
             a
             blasphemer
             as
             one
             that
             made
             himselfe
             God
             ,
             this
             cause
             they
             sett
             downe
             in
             plaine
             termes
             .
             verse
             33.
             
             Because
             thou
             makest
             thy selfe
             God
             ,
             beinge
             man
             ;
             but
             it
             is
             no
             blasphemie
             to
             be
             of
             the
             like
             will
             ,
             desire
             and
             affection
             with
             God
             :
             playne
             therefore
             it
             is
             by
             Christs
             argument
             ,
             that
             he
             did
             preache
             God
             so
             to
             be
             his
             Father
             ,
             as
             the
             Iewes
             vnderstoode
             he
             would
             haue
             himselfe
             the
             naturall
             sonne
             of
             God.
             See
             nowe
             excepte
             you
             be
             blinder
             thē
             the
             Iewes
             ,
             how
             plentifullie
             this
             scripture
             prooueth
             the
             consubstātialitie
             of
             the
             sonne
             ,
             
             and
             as
             for
             the
             place
             of
             Io.
             17.
             it
             helpeth
             not
             the
             Arrians
             at
             all
             ,
             as
             S.
             Aug.
             sheweth
             to
             Pascentius
             
             the
             Arrian
             .
             For
             that
             wheresoeuer
             the
             scripture
             speaketh
             of
             two
             that
             are
             one
             ,
             as
             in
             this
             place
             ,
             they
             are
             euer
             of
             one
             substance
             .
             And
             therfore
             he
             chargeth
             both
             Maximianus
             theire
             Bishoppe
             ,
             and
             Pascentius
             a
             noble
             man
             of
             theire
             opinion
             ,
             to
             trauers
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             if
             anie
             where
             they
             coulde
             shew
             two
             ,
             sayde
             to
             be
             one
             that
             are
             not
             one
             in
             substance
             ;
             But
             lett
             this
             be
             graunted
             that
             (
             I
             and
             the
             Father
             are
             one
             )
             prooueth
             onlie
             vnitie
             of
             will
             ,
             not
             of
             substance
             ,
             is
             there
             not
             an
             armie
             of
             scriptures
             besides
             this
             to
             prooue
             the
             sonne
             of
             the
             same
             substance
             ,
             that
             we
             neede
             not
             call
             in
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             ?
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               haue
               bestowed
               all
               this
               labour
               moste
               idlie
               ,
               goinge
               aboute
               to
               prooue
               to
               me
               ,
               that
               these
               articles
               are
               true
               ,
               and
               to
               haue
               true
               grounde
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               no
               catholicke
               euer
               doubted
               of
               .
               That
               which
               you
               shoulde
               haue
               laboured
               in
               (
               if
               you
               woulde
               haue
               spoken
               to
               the
               purpose
               )
               is
               ,
               that
               these
               articles
               haue
               so
               full
               proofe
               out
               of
               scriptures
               onlie
               ,
               that
               an
               heretike
               might
               be
               conuinced
               thereby
               without
               iudgment
               and
               interpretation
               of
               the
               churche
               vppon
               the
               same
               places
               .
               Which
               is
               euidently
               prooued
               to
               be
               false
               by
               the
               many
               and
               diuerse
               heresies
               which
               haue
               been
               maintayned
               against
               all
               these
               articles
               .
               For
               the
               authors
               thereof
               ,
               hereticallie
               refusinge
               the
               vnderstandinge
               of
               the
               church
               vppon
               those
               places
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               diuers
               others
               ,
               as
               you
               also
               doe
               in
               the
               places
               condemninge
               your
               heresies
               ,
               and
               followinge
               wilfullie
               theire
               owne
               iudgment
               therein
               as
               you
               in
               like
               manner
               doe
               ▪
               coulde
               not
               be
               conuinced
               of
               theire
               errours
               ▪
               but
               interpreted
               these
               places
               and
               all
               others
               brought
               against
               them
               ,
               in
               such
               sorte
               as
               they
               made
               not
               against
               them
               att
               all
               .
            
             
             
               And
               as
               for
               the
               particuler
               authorities
               proouing
               diuers
               of
               these
               articles
               ,
               consulte
               with
               your
               Grand
               Maister
               Caluin
               ,
               and
               see
               what
               weight
               he
               put●eth
               in
               them
               for
               the
               proofe
               of
               the
               sayde
               misteries
               .
               Or
               if
               you
               like
               not
               to
               turne
               his
               bookes
               ,
               read
               the
               litle
               booke
               written
               by
               Egidius
               Hunnius
               a
               professed
               protestant
               intituled
               Caluinus
               Iudaizans
               ,
               and
               you
               shall
               see
               whether
               he
               was
               conuinced
               in
               these
               articles
               by
               all
               the
               passages
               of
               holy
               scripture
               alleaged
               for
               that
               purpose
               .
               Yett
               would
               I
               not
               haue
               you
               to
               thinke
               that
               I
               approoue
               his
               wicked
               doctrine
               herein
               (
               which
               I
               detest
               as
               most
               hereticall
               )
               but
               onlie
               produce
               him
               as
               an
               irreprooueable
               instance
               of
               my
               position
               .
               Therefore
               all
               the
               longe
               ,
               lose
               and
               imperfect
               discourse
               which
               you
               haue
               made
               in
               this
               paragraffe
               (
               wherein
               are
               manie
               paralogismes
               and
               impertinencies
               )
               so
               farr
               as
               it
               prooueth
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               prooueth
               Caluin
               to
               haue
               been
               a
               wicked
               miscreant
               ,
               but
               prooueth
               nothinge
               against
               my
               position
               ;
               which
               denieth
               not
               these
               verities
               ,
               to
               haue
               most
               true
               ground
               in
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               according
               to
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               thereof
               ,
               but
               not
               in
               such
               sorte
               as
               the
               euidence
               thereof
               cannot
               be
               auoyded
               by
               an
               heretike
               .
               And
               you
               your selfe
               that
               wrangle
               so
               much
               heere
               against
               all
               experience
               ,
               as
               well
               of
               the
               present
               as
               all
               precedent
               ages
               ,
               will
               not
               acknowledge
               the
               catholike
               positions
               nowe
               in
               controuersie
               ,
               prooued
               by
               more
               ,
               or
               at
               least
               by
               as
               plaine
               and
               expresse
               scripture
               as
               these
               are
               ,
               to
               be
               sufficientlie
               prooued
               .
               So
               that
               I
               neede
               seeke
               no
               further
               confirmation
               of
               my
               position
               ,
               then
               the
               experience
               of
               your
               owne
               peruersitie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Yea
             to
             stoppe
             your
             mouth
             ,
             I
             add
             that
             S.
             Aug.
             doth
             euidentlie
             except
             against
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             church
             ,
             in
             his
             polemicall
             bookes
             against
             the
             Arrian
             Bishopp
             in
             two
             seuerall
             councells
             ,
             the
             one
             of
             Nice
             ,
             the
             other
             of
             Arriminum
             ,
             the
             former
             of
             which
             had
             ratified
             the
             consubstantialitie
             
             of
             the
             sonne
             ,
             and
             the
             other
             reuoked
             it
             ,
             and
             tyeth
             both
             himselfe
             and
             the
             Arrian
             onlie
             to
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             as
             knowinge
             this
             pointe
             of
             faith
             fullie
             to
             be
             prooued
             of
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               mouth
               meriteth
               well
               the
               stopinge
               that
               doth
               so
               farr
               and
               fowlie
               ouerflowe
               ,
               as
               to
               say
               that
               S.
               Aug
               ▪
               doth
               euidentlie
               except
               against
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               .
               What
               ,
               haue
               you
               so
               soone
               forgott
               that
               he
               protested
               he
               would
               not
               beleeue
               the
               go
               pell
               but
               that
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               moued
               him
               ?
               you
               haue
               be
               like
               some
               as
               euident
               and
               expresse
               wordes
               of
               his
               exception
               against
               the
               churche
               ,
               authoritie
               as
               this
               is
               for
               it
               ,
               or
               else
               your
               assertion
               is
               moste
               shameles
               :
               let
               vs
               here
               I
               pray
               you
               what
               he
               saith
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Neither
               ought
               I
               (
               saith
               S.
               Aug.
               )
               to
               vrge
               the
            
             
             
               councell
               of
               Nice
               ,
               nor
               thou
               that
               of
               Arriminum
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               tyed
               to
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               one
               ,
               nor
               thou
               of
               the
               other
               ,
               but
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               that
               are
               not
               parties
               ,
               but
               common
               witnesses
               vnto
               vs
               both
               ;
               lett
               matter
               to
               matter
               ,
               cause
               to
               cause
               ,
               reason
               to
               reason
               be
               indifferentlie
               opposed
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Howe
               willinglie
               you
               deceiue
               your selfe
               and
               wilfullie
               labour
               to
               deceiue
               others
               ?
               I
               must
               needes
               thinke
               that
               it
               is
               malice
               or
               peruersitie
               ,
               &
               not
               ignorance
               that
               maketh
               you
               abuse
               this
               place
               of
               S
               ,
               Aug
               :
               who
               hauing
               sayde
               that
               the
               worde
               ●omo●sion
               .
               beinge
               by
               the
               catholike
               fathers
               in
               the
               councell
               of
               Nice
               by
               the
               authoritie
               of
               truth
               ,
               and
               truth
               of
               authoritie
               established
               ▪
               was
               after
               in
               the
               councell
               of
               Arriminum
               vnder
               the
               hereticall
               Emperour
               Constantius
               by
               the
               fraude
               of
               a
               fewe
               disliked
               ,
               but
               afterwardes
               acknowledged
               ,
               he
               cometh
               to
               say
               .
               
                 But
                 nowe
                 neither
                 I
                 ought
                 to
                 vse
                 the
                 authoritie
                 of
                 the
                 councell
                 of
                 Nice
                 ,
                 nor
                 thou
                 of
                 the
              
               
               
                 counsell
                 ▪
                 of
                 Arriminum
                 ,
                 but
                 such
                 testimonie
                 of
                 scripture
                 as
                 are
                 common
                 to
                 both
                 .
              
               Where
               S.
               Aug.
               is
               as
               farr
               from
               exceptinge
               against
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               church
               in
               the
               councell
               of
               Nice
               ,
               as
               I
               am
               nowe
               from
               exceptinge
               against
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               councell
               of
               Trent
               ,
               in
               that
               I
               doe
               not
               vse
               it
               against
               you
               ,
               but
               am
               content
               to
               deale
               with
               you
               by
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               beinge
               receiued
               by
               vs
               both
               ,
               are
               irreproueable
               witnesses
               .
            
             
               In
               this
               therefore
               &
               noe
               other
               sorte
               doth
               S.
               August
               :
               omitte
               to
               vrge
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               councell
               of
               Nice
               against
               his
               aduersarie
               Maximian
               the
               Arrian
               ,
               and
               tye
               himselfe
               to
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               then
               I
               doe
               nowe
               tye
               my selfe
               to
               the
               scriptures
               omitting
               to
               vrge
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               councell
               of
               Trent
               against
               you
               a
               protestant
               .
               And
               tell
               me
               I
               pray
               you
               ,
               did
               S.
               Aug
               :
               (
               thinke
               you
               )
               esteeme
               
               lesse
               of
               the
               Nicen
               councel
               then
               you
               doe
               ?
               you
               wil
               not
               say
               it
               I
               suppose
               .
               And
               doe
               not
               you
               geue
               vnto
               it
               that
               authority
               to
               define
               matters
               of
               faith
               against
               heretikes
               ?
               and
               admitte
               of
               the
               doctrine
               thereof
               as
               orthodoxe
               and
               catholike
               ,
               and
               which
               ought
               to
               be
               receiued
               of
               all
               christians
               ?
               you
               will
               not
               deny
               it
               .
               Why
               therefore
               doe
               you
               say
               S.
               August
               euidentlie
               excepteth
               against
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               because
               he
               woulde
               not
               tye
               his
               aduersarie
               in
               that
               dispute
               to
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               Nicene
               councell
               ,
               which
               he
               professeth
               to
               haue
               been
               decreed
               by
               
                 the
                 authoritie
                 of
                 truth
                 and
                 truth
                 of
                 authoritie
                 ?
              
               But
               you
               delight
               not
               onlie
               to
               err
               your selfe
               ,
               but
               also
               to
               drawe
               others
               into
               errour
               with
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Where
             then
             is
             your
             inference
             ,
             that
             this
             scripture
             without
             the
             interpretation
             of
             the
             churche
             doth
             not
             fullie
             prooue
             the
             Father
             and
             the
             sonne
             to
             be
             one
             in
             substance
             ,
             as
             if
             the
             scriptures
             before
             the
             churches
             interpretation
             prooue
             onlie
             probable
             ;
             after
             her
             interpretation
             fullie
             .
             This
             I
             gather
             to
             be
             your
             meaninge
             ,
             because
             Bellarmine
             
             affirmeth
             (
             from
             whose
             haruest
             you
             haue
             
             gathered
             these
             gleaninges
             )
             that
             the
             scriptures
             expressed
             by
             a
             councell
             ,
             doe
             firmelie
             and
             certainlie
             prooue
             that
             ,
             which
             before
             they
             did
             not
             firmelie
             prooue
             .
             And
             of
             S.
             August
             .
             he
             saith
             ,
             that
             he
             bringeth
             certaine
             coniectures
             out
             of
             scriptures
             ,
             which
             after
             the
             definition
             of
             a
             councell
             and
             triall
             of
             written
             traditions
             ,
             haue
             some
             force
             to
             confirme
             truth
             ,
             which
             of
             themselues
             ar
             not
             sufficient
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               My
               inference
               standeth
               good
               ,
               nor
               is
               it
               anie
               way
               impeached
               by
               S.
               Aug
               :
               euen
               in
               this
               place
               by
               you
               alleaged
               as
               alreadie
               appeareth
               .
               Besides
               in
               his
               booke
               
                 de
                 vera
                 religione
                 cap.
              
               1.
               he
               hath
               these
               expresse
               wordes
               ▪
               
                 who
                 is
                 not
                 starke
                 madd
                 and
                 easilie
                 vnderstandeth
                 not
                 ,
                 that
                 the
                 exposition
                 of
                 scriptures
                 ,
                 is
                 to
                 be
                 sought
                 from
                 them
                 who
                 professe
                 themselues
                 teachers
                 of
                 the
                 same
                 ?
              
               He
               meaneth
               the
               pastours
               and
               doctours
               of
               the
               churche
               .
               And
               concerninge
               this
               place
               .
               
                 Ego
                 &
                 pater
                 vnum
                 sumus
              
               ,
               read
               S.
               Athanasius
               his
               Epistle
               
                 ad
                 Episcopos
                 Arrianos
              
               ,
               and
               see
               howe
               they
               were
               conuinced
               with
               it
               ,
               or
               if
               you
               will
               not
               looke
               so
               farr
               ,
               make
               a
               litle
               inquirie
               of
               Legats
               answere
               vnto
               it
               .
               That
               which
               you
               say
               of
               the
               scriptures
               before
               and
               after
               the
               churches
               interpretation
               ,
               and
               likwise
               of
               S.
               Aug
               :
               out
               of
               Bellarmine
               (
               though
               I
               find
               noe
               such
               thinge
               in
               the
               place
               of
               Bellar.
               by
               you
               cited
               )
               in
               the
               catholicke
               sence
               is
               true
               .
               That
               is
               ,
               
               the
               scriptures
               before
               the
               iudgment
               of
               the
               church
               of
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               thereof
               ,
               make
               noe
               full
               proofe
               vnto
               vs
               of
               the
               articles
               of
               our
               faith
               .
               Not
               because
               they
               receiue
               anie
               truthe
               or
               force
               in
               respect
               of
               themselues
               from
               the
               churche
               ,
               they
               being
               the
               infallible
               worde
               of
               God
               ,
               but
               because
               they
               beinge
               capable
               of
               diuerse
               sences
               and
               subiect
               to
               be
               vnderstoode
               diuerslie
               ,
               as
               you
               your selfe
               will
               not
               denie
               of
               these
               fewe
               and
               plaine
               wordes
               
                 hoc
                 est
                 corpus
                 meum
              
               ,
               without
               some
               authoritie
               to
               interprete
               them
               ,
               the
               true
               sence
               
               and
               meaninge
               of
               them
               cannot
               assuredlie
               be
               knowne
               vnto
               vs.
               And
               therefore
               hath
               God
               placed
               in
               his
               church
               pastours
               and
               doctors
               to
               deliuer
               vnto
               his
               people
               ,
               the
               true
               meaning
               of
               his
               worde
               ,
               and
               hath
               promised
               to
               be
               with
               them
               alwayes
               ,
               &
               that
               to
               heare
               them
               is
               to
               heare
               
               himselfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Lett
             this
             be
             marked
             .
             For
             when
             we
             say
             that
             the
             scriptures
             doe
             prooue
             fullie
             articles
             of
             faith
             ,
             we
             take
             not
             away
             subordinate
             meanes
             whereby
             we
             may
             see
             and
             learne
             the
             fulnes
             of
             the
             scriptures
             :
             but
             we
             exclude
             all
             outwarde
             and
             aduentitious
             authoritie
             ,
             to
             supplie
             the
             supposed
             weaknes
             in
             them
             ,
             and
             to
             adde
             strength
             and
             firmenes
             vnto
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Necessitie
               and
               the
               verie
               euidence
               of
               truth
               forceth
               you
               to
               confesse
               some
               meanes
               to
               learne
               the
               true
               ence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ;
               but
               your
               owne
               peruersitie
               and
               obstinacy
               will
               not
               permitte
               you
               to
               speak
               plainlie
               .
               What
               doe
               you
               I
               play
               vnderstande
               by
               subordinate
               meanes
               which
               you
               say
               you
               exclude
               not
               ?
               and
               what
               doe
               you
               meane
               by
               aduentitious
               authoritie
               ?
               doe
               you
               meane
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ?
               so
               your
               wordes
               followinge
               doe
               insinuate
               .
               But
               shewe
               you
               as
               clearly
               out
               of
               the
               scripture
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               to
               be
               excluded
               as
               strange
               and
               aduentitious
               ,
               as
               we
               will
               shewe
               you
               that
               it
               is
               ratyfied
               ,
               established
               ,
               and
               commended
               vnto
               vs
               as
               an
               vnfallible
               guide
               and
               teacher
               of
               truth
               ,
               and
               then
               we
               will
               geue
               some
               creditt
               to
               your
               wordes
               ;
               but
               till
               then
               which
               will
               be
               neuer
               ,
               knowe
               yee
               that
               yee
               are
               prooued
               to
               contemne
               scripture
               ,
               and
               all
               other
               authoritie
               saue
               onlie
               your
               owne
               foolishe
               fancie
               ,
               which
               you
               make
               to
               be
               iudge
               of
               the
               holy
               scripture
               it selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Which
             strength
             the
             papists
             say
             ,
             they
             haue
             not
             
             of
             themselues
             ,
             but
             receiue
             from
             the
             interpretation
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             and
             traditions
             ;
             which
             is
             an
             impious
             and
             blasphemous
             assertion
             .
             For
             the
             interpretation
             of
             a
             Sinode
             ,
             is
             but
             a
             glosse
             ,
             the
             scripture
             is
             the
             text
             ;
             the
             interpretation
             may
             err
             ,
             the
             text
             cannott
             erre
             ;
             the
             interpretation
             is
             the
             worde
             of
             man
             ,
             the
             scriptures
             the
             voyce
             of
             God
             :
             to
             conclude
             this
             point
             ,
             whereas
             the
             position
             of
             the
             former
             Roman
             church
             was
             ,
             that
             diuinitie
             reasoneth
             from
             the
             scriptures
             necessarilie
             ,
             from
             other
             authors
             and
             learninge
             probablie
             ;
             the
             wheele
             nowe
             is
             turned
             ,
             and
             men
             reason
             from
             the
             scriptures
             coniecturallie
             ,
             but
             from
             the
             interpretation
             of
             the
             churche
             and
             tradition
             ,
             firmelie
             and
             sullie
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Howe
               often
               haue
               you
               been
               tould
               of
               your
               wittinge
               belying
               your
               aduersaries
               ?
               you
               knowe
               well
               if
               you
               knowe
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               that
               the
               catholikes
               whom
               you
               call
               papists
               ,
               doe
               teach
               the
               scriptures
               to
               be
               the
               worde
               of
               the
               holy
               Ghost
               ,
               and
               to
               haue
               theire
               veritie
               from
               him
               independentlie
               of
               the
               churche
               :
               And
               therefore
               that
               the
               churche
               addeth
               no
               strength
               or
               veritie
               to
               them
               ,
               no
               more
               then
               the
               witnes
               or
               notarie
               addeth
               truth
               or
               veritie
               to
               the
               will
               &
               testament
               of
               the
               testatour
               .
               Neuertheles
               the
               authoritie
               &
               testimonie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               is
               as
               necessarie
               for
               the
               acceptance
               and
               acknowledgment
               ,
               as
               well
               of
               the
               letter
               and
               texte
               it selfe
               ,
               as
               of
               the
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               as
               the
               witnes
               or
               notaries
               hande
               is
               to
               the
               acknowledgment
               and
               proofe
               of
               the
               will
               and
               testament
               ,
               or
               as
               the
               sentence
               of
               the
               iudge
               is
               necessarie
               for
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               of
               the
               will
               ,
               if
               at
               anie
               tyme
               it
               come
               to
               be
               in
               doubte
               or
               in
               question
               .
               Neither
               is
               the
               interpretation
               of
               the
               churche
               vppon
               the
               scripture
               ,
               the
               interpretation
               or
               worde
               of
               man
               ,
               as
               you
               hereticallie
               tearme
               it
               ,
               but
               of
               the
               holy
               Ghost
               as
               (
               besides
               
               other
               places
               )
               you
               may
               learne
               of
               that
               .
               
                 Visum
                 est
                 Spitui
                 Sancto
                 &
                 nobis
                 .
              
               But
               it
               auaileth
               ,
               like
               as
               to
               teache
               a
               wilfull
               mynde
               wisdome
               .
               Your
               conclusion
               is
               yett
               more
               childishe
               ,
               ignorant
               ,
               and
               impertinent
               .
               For
               from
               the
               scriptures
               vnderstoode
               in
               the
               sence
               of
               the
               churche
               which
               is
               infalliblie
               true
               ,
               we
               say
               the
               argument
               is
               necessarie
               and
               infallible
               ,
               whereas
               from
               all
               humane
               authours
               taken
               seuerallie
               ,
               be
               they
               neuer
               so
               learned
               ,
               the
               argument
               is
               not
               certayne
               but
               probable
               .
               But
               whē
               we
               speake
               of
               humane
               authors
               ,
               we
               vnderstande
               not
               the
               churche
               nor
               yett
               her
               receiued
               traditions
               .
               And
               thus
               you
               see
               your
               strongest
               arguments
               against
               the
               position
               of
               the
               manuall
               ,
               are
               nothinge
               but
               froathie
               calumnies
               ,
               paralogismes
               and
               impertinencies
               ,
               dispersed
               and
               blowne
               away
               with
               euerie
               small
               blast
               of
               winde
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             .
             Catholike
             position
             .
             2.
             
          
        
         
           All
           such
           articles
           as
           are
           of
           faith
           and
           so
           holden
           by
           the
           protestants
           themselues
           ,
           are
           not
           contayned
           so
           much
           as
           indirectlie
           or
           implicitlie
           in
           the
           holy
           scriptures
           :
           but
           onlie
           so
           farr
           as
           the
           scriptures
           contayne
           and
           testifie
           the
           authority
           of
           the
           churche
           &
           traditions
           .
        
         
           
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             Take
             all
             the
             bookes
             of
             the
             bible
             and
             euerie
             parte
             thereof
             ,
             which
             are
             acknowledged
             for
             canonicall
             scripture
             ioyntlie
             of
             catholikes
             and
             protestants
             ,
             be
             such
             indeede
             .
             That
             the
             moste
             blessed
             mother
             of
             our
             Sauiour
             Christe
             ,
             continued
             perpetuallie
             a
             virgin
             .
             That
             it
             is
             lawfull
             for
             christians
             to
             eat
             strangled
             thinges
             ,
             and
             blood
             (
             which
             were
             expressely
             forbidden
             them
             Acts
             15.
             20.
             
             )
             are
             not
             so
             much
             as
             indirectly
             contained
             in
             holy
             
             scriptures
             ,
             otherwise
             then
             is
             mentioned
             in
             our
             position
             .
             But
             this
             being
             more
             amply
             proued
             in
             that
             which
             followeth
             of
             traditions
             ,
             this
             which
             we
             haue
             sayd
             alreadie
             shal
             suffice
             for
             the
             present
             .
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             The
             sunne
             needeth
             to
             borrowe
             no
             light
             of
             other
             starres
             ,
             nor
             the
             scriptures
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             or
             of
             tradition
             ;
             For
             without
             helpe
             of
             either
             ,
             they
             sufficientlie
             prooue
             all
             articles
             of
             faith
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               an
               vsuall
               tricke
               of
               all
               deceiptfull
               and
               verball
               disputers
               ,
               to
               inuert
               &
               change
               the
               question
               in
               hande
               ;
               that
               when
               they
               can
               say
               nothinge
               to
               the
               true
               questiō
               ,
               they
               may
               finde
               somethinge
               to
               say
               to
               the
               question
               framed
               by
               themselues
               .
               The
               controuersie
               here
               is
               not
               whether
               the
               scriptures
               doe
               sufficientlie
               prooue
               all
               other
               articles
               of
               faith
               ,
               for
               that
               was
               disputed
               in
               the
               precedent
               position
               ,
               and
               the
               negatiue
               parte
               there
               prooued
               against
               you
               ;
               but
               whether
               they
               sufficientlie
               prooue
               themselues
               to
               be
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               or
               noe
               ,
               which
               ▪
               was
               ▪
               the
               first
               proofe
               of
               this
               position
               :
               lett
               vs
               heare
               howe
               you
               answere
               it
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             here
             you
             trifle
             in
             idle
             Homonomie
             of
             articles
             of
             faith
             .
             For
             strictlie
             those
             thinges
             are
             called
             articles
             of
             faith
             ,
             which
             are
             prescribed
             in
             the
             old
             and
             newe
             testament
             to
             be
             beleeued
             ,
             and
             are
             summarilie
             comprised
             in
             the
             Apostles
             creed
             ;
             whereby
             they
             are
             both
             distinguished
             from
             the
             precepts
             of
             the
             lawe
             that
             prescribe
             good
             workes
             ,
             and
             from
             the
             principles
             of
             diuintie
             ,
             from
             which
             as
             from
             conclusions
             they
             are
             deriued
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               knowe
               not
               what
               you
               call
               trifelinge
               in
               homonomie
               ;
               
               but
               I
               knowe
               that
               you
               bable
               in
               obscuritie
               .
               It
               is
               be
               like
               no
               article
               of
               faith
               with
               you
               ,
               that
               God
               is
               to
               be
               adored
               ,
               his
               name
               not
               to
               be
               prophaned
               or
               blasphemed
               ,
               that
               our
               parents
               are
               to
               be
               honoured
               ,
               with
               the
               rest
               of
               gods
               commaundements
               ,
               because
               they
               be
               precepts
               commaundinge
               good
               workes
               .
               I
               maruell
               where
               you
               learned
               this
               good
               diuinitie
               .
               But
               lett
               this
               passe
               ,
               yett
               it
               serueth
               not
               your
               turne
               ;
               For
               the
               scriptures
               whereof
               the
               question
               is
               nowe
               ,
               are
               not
               precepts
               as
               you
               knowe
               .
               You
               haue
               therefore
               another
               as
               good
               a
               shifte
               .
               That
               is
               ,
               that
               articles
               of
               faith
               are
               distinguished
               not
               onlie
               from
               precepts
               ,
               
                 but
                 also
                 ●ro●
                 princeples
                 of
                 diuinitie
                 .
                 from
                 which
                 as
                 conclusions
                 they
                 are
                 deriued
              
               ;
               these
               are
               your
               owne
               wordes
               ,
               but
               what
               you
               meane
               by
               them
               I
               cannot
               conceiue
               .
               They
               seeme
               to
               sounde
               ,
               that
               the
               articles
               of
               faith
               as
               conclusions
               ,
               are
               deriued
               from
               the
               principles
               of
               diuinitie
               .
               Then
               which
               you
               coulde
               haue
               sayd
               nothinge
               more
               contrarie
               to
               truthe
               .
               For
               all
               men
               knowe
               that
               the
               conclusions
               of
               diuinitie
               are
               deriued
               from
               the
               articles
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               as
               from
               theire
               principles
               &
               not
               the
               contrarie
               as
               you
               dreame
               .
               It
               had
               been
               good
               you
               had
               taken
               one
               yeere
               more
               to
               haue
               reuewed
               your
               writinges
               ,
               that
               you
               might
               haue
               made
               better
               sence
               of
               your
               ayinges
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Of
             which
             sorte
             of
             principles
             these
             are
             ;
             That
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             are
             diuine
             ,
             inspired
             from
             heauen
             ,
             immutabely
             true
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               By
               what
               other
               reason
               I
               pray
               you
               are
               these
               thinges
               here
               named
               by
               you
               ,
               rather
               to
               be
               called
               principles
               of
               diuinitie
               ,
               then
               articles
               of
               faith
               ,
               more
               then
               for
               your
               owne
               bare
               and
               ignorant
               assertion
               ?
               you
               should
               haue
               geuen
               some
               reason
               for
               your
               distinction
               ,
               that
               your
               reader
               might
               haue
               seene
               it
               had
               not
               been
               meerely
               forged
               onlie
               to
               delude
               the
               argument
               .
               Againe
               why
               are
               these
               thinges
               to
               be
               tearmed
               principles
               ,
               and
               not
               articles
               of
               faith
               ;
               God
               is
               one
               ;
               God
               is
               omnipotent
               ;
               God
               
               is
               truth
               it selfe
               and
               the
               first
               truth
               that
               reuealeth
               misteries
               of
               faith
               ?
               you
               dare
               not
               denie
               these
               to
               be
               principles
               of
               the
               other
               principles
               ,
               and
               yett
               are
               they
               most
               properlie
               articles
               of
               faith
               as
               you
               dare
               not
               denie
               ,
               expressed
               in
               the
               creede
               it selfe
               .
               You
               see
               therefore
               your
               distinctions
               of
               articles
               and
               principles
               of
               faith
               to
               be
               vaine
               ,
               foolishe
               and
               friuolous
               ,
               inuented
               onlie
               to
               delude
               your
               lesse
               carefull
               reader
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Improperlie
             articles
             of
             faith
             are
             called
             whatsoeuer
             is
             written
             as
             the
             principles
             themselues
             ,
             preceptes
             of
             the
             lawe
             ,
             sermons
             of
             the
             prophets
             ,
             histories
             of
             both
             testaments
             ,
             because
             faith
             ,
             assenteth
             to
             euerie
             thinge
             deliuered
             in
             the
             worde
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               That
               is
               properlie
               an
               article
               of
               faith
               ,
               that
               is
               beleeued
               for
               diuine
               authoritie
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               written
               or
               noe
               ,
               as
               were
               all
               these
               thinges
               the
               fathers
               beleeued
               before
               the
               lawe
               written
               .
               And
               because
               we
               beleeue
               the
               bookes
               of
               Genesis
               for
               example
               ,
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               holy
               Byble
               ,
               to
               be
               written
               by
               Gods
               reuelation
               ,
               therefore
               doe
               we
               beleeue
               them
               to
               be
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               and
               to
               containe
               gods
               worde
               .
               Which
               therefore
               is
               properlie
               ,
               an
               article
               of
               faith
               no
               lesse
               then
               the
               misterie
               of
               the
               blessed
               trinitie
               ,
               beleeued
               for
               the
               same
               authoritie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Vppon
             this
             grounde
             I
             answere
             ,
             first
             in
             generall
             ,
             that
             none
             of
             these
             points
             are
             articles
             of
             faith
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Vppon
               such
               a
               false
               grounde
               you
               are
               like
               to
               builde
               a
               good
               answere
               .
               Is
               it
               no
               article
               of
               faith
               with
               you
               that
               the
               booke
               of
               Genesis
               is
               written
               by
               gods
               reuelation
               ?
               Tell
               me
               I
               pray
               you
               vnto
               what
               kinde
               of
               knowledge
               or
               assent
               you
               will
               reduce
               it
               ?
               I
               will
               confesse
               you
               a
               maister
               in
               diuinitie
               if
               you
               can
               make
               it
               well
               appeare
               ,
               
               by
               what
               other
               act
               of
               knowledge
               or
               vnderstandinge
               we
               assent
               vnto
               this
               veritie
               ,
               besides
               the
               act
               of
               faith
               .
               Which
               if
               you
               cannot
               performe
               ,
               as
               assuredlie
               you
               cannott
               ,
               you
               must
               needes
               see
               this
               your
               first
               answere
               to
               be
               noe
               answere
               att
               all
               ,
               but
               a
               meere
               supposall
               of
               a
               manifest
               falsitie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Secondlie
             I
             answere
             to
             euerie
             one
             in
             particular
             .
             I
             answere
             to
             the
             the
             first
             .
             That
             all
             canonicall
             bookes
             and
             euerie
             parcell
             thereof
             be
             such
             ,
             is
             prooued
             out
             of
             themselues
             .
             For
             besides
             that
             the
             ould
             testament
             prooueth
             the
             newe
             ,
             and
             the
             newe
             the
             old
             (
             for
             whatsoeuer
             we
             read
             in
             the
             ould
             testament
             ,
             the
             same
             is
             founde
             in
             the
             gospell
             ,
             and
             whatsoeuer
             is
             founde
             in
             the
             gospell
             that
             is
             deduced
             from
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             ould
             testament
             ,
             as
             Hierome
             speaketh
             )
             so
             in
             speciall
             
             euerie
             booke
             prooueth
             it selfe
             ,
             both
             by
             its
             owne
             light
             as
             formerlie
             was
             shewed
             ,
             and
             by
             the
             testimonie
             of
             Christ
             of
             the
             Prophets
             ,
             and
             Apostles
             ,
             that
             were
             the
             secretaries
             of
             the
             holy
             ghost
             .
             The
             testimonie
             of
             our
             Sauiour
             Christ.
             Luc.
             24.
             44.
             
             These
             are
             the
             wordes
             which
             I
             spake
             vnto
             you
             while
             I
             was
             with
             you
             ,
             that
             all
             must
             needes
             be
             fulfilled
             which
             were
             written
             of
             me
             in
             the
             lawe
             of
             Moyses
             ,
             and
             in
             the
             prophetts
             and
             in
             the
             psalmes
             .
             Of
             S.
             Paule
             .
             2.
             
             Tim.
             3.
             16.
             
             All
             scripture
             is
             geuen
             by
             the
             inspiration
             of
             God
             ,
             and
             is
             profitable
             to
             doctrine
             ,
             to
             reproofe
             ,
             to
             correction
             ,
             to
             instruction
             which
             is
             in
             righteousnes
             .
             Of
             S.
             Peter
             the
             2.
             epist
             .
             1.
             21.
             
             The
             prophecie
             came
             not
             in
             olde
             tyme
             by
             the
             will
             of
             man
             ,
             but
             holy
             men
             of
             God
             spake
             as
             they
             were
             moued
             by
             the
             holy
             Ghost
             ,
             
             doe
             abundantlie
             prooue
             the
             bookes
             of
             the
             olde
             testament
             ,
             to
             be
             canonicall
             ,
             besides
             that
             there
             is
             not
             anie
             of
             them
             ,
             out
             of
             which
             some
             testimonie
             is
             not
             in
             the
             newe
             testament
             extant
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               second
               answere
               is
               as
               much
               to
               the
               purpose
               ,
               as
               your
               first
               .
               Neither
               the
               old
               testament
               proouing
               the
               newe
               ,
               nor
               contrariwise
               ;
               vnles
               the
               one
               be
               beleeued
               before
               .
               Yea
               you
               make
               your selfe
               ridiculous
               to
               all
               men
               by
               such
               a
               naturall
               or
               circulare
               proofe
               ,
               vnles
               you
               suppose
               the
               assured
               beleefe
               of
               some
               parte
               before
               .
               For
               example
               if
               one
               shoulde
               demaunde
               of
               you
               how
               you
               knowe
               ,
               or
               why
               you
               doe
               beleeue
               those
               wordes
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               which
               you
               cite
               out
               of
               the
               24
               :
               of
               S.
               Luke
               either
               to
               haue
               been
               spoken
               by
               him
               ,
               or
               written
               by
               S.
               Luke
               ;
               would
               you
               say
               that
               they
               euidentlie
               prooue
               themselues
               so
               to
               be
               ?
               surely
               this
               you
               must
               say
               ,
               both
               accordinge
               to
               your
               doctrine
               here
               ,
               and
               accordinge
               to
               the
               necessitie
               you
               putt
               your selfe
               into
               by
               denyinge
               the
               authority
               of
               tradition
               and
               of
               the
               churches
               testimonie
               .
               And
               yett
               in
               sayinge
               that
               ,
               you
               shall
               euidently
               prooue
               your selfe
               to
               be
               senceles
               .
               For
               there
               is
               noe
               such
               euidence
               of
               the
               thinge
               ,
               but
               anie
               man
               that
               is
               not
               moued
               with
               the
               authoritie
               of
               gods
               churche
               ,
               and
               tradition
               would
               esteeme
               it
               verie
               vncertaine
               and
               most
               doubtfull
               .
               For
               vnles
               these
               wordes
               ,
               (
               and
               that
               which
               I
               say
               of
               them
               ,
               I
               say
               of
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               scripture
               )
               were
               God
               himselfe
               ,
               and
               spake
               to
               vs
               as
               imediatlie
               as
               he
               did
               to
               Moises
               ,
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               his
               prophetts
               ,
               they
               cannot
               be
               sayde
               to
               be
               knowne
               by
               theire
               owne
               light
               ,
               nor
               beleeued
               for
               theire
               owne
               truth
               .
            
             
               Againe
               suppose
               you
               had
               certayne
               knoweledge
               of
               this
               by
               what
               meanes
               soeuer
               ,
               howe
               could
               you
               be
               certayne
               that
               he
               speaketh
               of
               those
               bookes
               of
               Moises
               ,
               psalmes
               ,
               and
               prophetts
               ,
               which
               we
               haue
               vnder
               those
               names
               ?
               This
               certainlie
               would
               be
               impossible
               for
               you
               to
               prooue
               ,
               seinge
               you
               reiect
               the
               authoritie
               of
               tradition
               and
               the
               churches
               iudgment
               ,
               by
               which
               onlie
               it
               is
               
               assuredlie
               prooued
               .
               Furthermore
               you
               knowe
               ,
               that
               our
               Sauiour
               speakinge
               in
               his
               owne
               person
               ,
               required
               not
               to
               be
               beleeued
               but
               by
               the
               testimonie
               of
               his
               workes
               ,
               
               sayinge
               :
               
                 Nisi
                 opera
                 in
                 eis
                 fecissem
                 〈◊〉
                 nemo
                 alius
                 fecit
                 peccatum
                 non
                 haberent
              
               Much
               lesse
               therefore
               doth
               he
               require
               that
               we
               shoulde
               beleeue
               a
               written
               booke
               to
               be
               his
               worde
               ,
               without
               other
               proofe
               then
               the
               selfe
               light
               of
               the
               booke
               ,
               which
               is
               not
               so
               greate
               as
               that
               of
               his
               owne
               liuelie
               worde●
               .
               The
               sayinge
               of
               S
               Hierome
               is
               nothinge
               to
               the
               purpose
               .
               For
               he
               speaketh
               onlie
               of
               the
               mutuall
               consent
               and
               concord
               of
               the
               two
               testaments
               ,
               which
               to
               christians
               that
               alreadie
               beleeue
               them
               both
               to
               be
               the
               worde
               of
               God
               ,
               is
               no
               small
               confirmation
               of
               the
               veritie
               of
               the
               doctrine
               they
               both
               contayne
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               Gospells
               of
               the
               Euangelists
               the
               Acts
               ,
               and
               Epistles
               of
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               the
               reuelation
               of
               S.
               Iohn
               ,
               prooue
               themselues
               out
               of
               themselues
               ,
               to
               be
               theires
               whose
               titles
               they
               beare
               .
               And
               if
               we
               creditt
               the
               bookes
               of
               historians
               and
               Philosophers
               ,
            
             
             
               auncient
               and
               moderne
               ,
               diuine
               and
               humane
               ,
               to
               be
               theires
               whose
               names
               they
               carrie
               ,
               in
               theire
               foreheads
               ;
               what
               madnes
               were
               it
               to
               thinke
               the
               diuine
               scriptures
               not
               to
               be
               written
               by
               them
               ,
               who
               are
               said
               to
               be
               theire
               penmen
               ,
               after
               the
               defluxion
               of
               so
               manie
               ages
               ,
               wherein
               neuer
               anie
               good
               christian
               called
               them
               in
               question
               besides
               wicked
               Iesuits
               ,
               impure
               Manichees
               ,
               Cerdonians
               ,
               Marcionists
               ,
               and
               Ebionites
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               None
               of
               all
               these
               bookes
               say
               ,
               they
               were
               written
               by
               such
               and
               such
               ,
               as
               is
               manifest
               .
               And
               thoughe
               they
               did
               ,
               yett
               were
               not
               this
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               them
               theirs
               ,
               vnles
               it
               were
               certaine
               this
               were
               theire
               testimonie
               ,
               and
               that
               they
               were
               infallible
               in
               their
               testimonie
               .
               
               As
               for
               the
               titles
               they
               beare
               ,
               there
               is
               the
               same
               difficultie
               .
               For
               it
               is
               not
               otherwise
               knowne
               to
               be
               theirs
               then
               by
               faith
               and
               beleefe
               ,
               of
               which
               we
               seeke
               the
               grounde
               .
               And
               if
               titles
               were
               sufficient
               proofes
               of
               the
               true
               gospells
               ,
               we
               should
               haue
               manie
               moe
               gospells
               then
               we
               haue
               ,
               as
               you
               cannot
               be
               ignorant
               .
               Againe
               the
               Epistle
               to
               the
               Hebrues
               beareth
               not
               the
               name
               of
               anie
               of
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               and
               howe
               longe
               it
               was
               thought
               by
               diuerse
               not
               to
               be
               S.
               Paules
               you
               knowe
               ,
               vnles
               you
               be
               verie
               ignorant
               .
               For
               the
               workes
               of
               other
               humane
               authors
               why
               doe
               you
               beleeue
               them
               to
               be
               theirs
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               not
               for
               the
               testimonie
               of
               all
               succeedinge
               ages
               brought
               vnto
               vs
               by
               tradition
               ?
               Giue
               some
               other
               sufficient
               grounde
               of
               your
               beleefe
               in
               this
               poynte
               ,
               if
               you
               can
               ,
               and
               if
               you
               cannot
               ,
               say
               you
               are
               senceles
               to
               reiect
               ecclesiasticall
               tradition
               in
               receiuinge
               the
               bookes
               of
               the
               Bible
               ,
               or
               else
               that
               your
               iudgment
               is
               foolishe
               and
               idle
               .
               Moreouer
               were
               it
               certainly
               knowne
               vnto
               vs
               that
               S.
               Mathewe
               wrote
               the
               gospell
               we
               haue
               vnder
               his
               owne
               name
               ,
               as
               it
               is
               nowe
               by
               tradition
               and
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               ;
               yett
               vnles
               it
               were
               further
               certaine
               that
               he
               wrote
               by
               diuine
               inspiration
               (
               which
               without
               some
               diuine
               testimonie
               we
               knowe
               not
               )
               it
               could
               not
               be
               certaine
               to
               vs
               that
               his
               gospell
               is
               the
               word
               of
               God.
               Nowe
               if
               you
               had
               lefte
               out
               of
               the
               number
               of
               those
               that
               haue
               called
               the
               scriptures
               into
               questiō
               (
               Iesuites
               )
               and
               putt
               in
               theire
               place
               ,
               Lutherans
               or
               Protestants
               ,
               your
               wordes
               might
               haue
               passed
               for
               currant
               .
               But
               tell
               me
               in
               the
               small
               honestie
               of
               a
               protestant
               minister
               ,
               did
               you
               euer
               knowe
               that
               anie
               Iesuite
               called
               anie
               booke
               of
               scripture
               into
               question
               or
               doubte
               ?
               you
               cannot
               ,
               thoughe
               you
               burst
               your selfe
               ,
               giue
               an
               instance
               .
               Whereas
               you
               doe
               not
               onlie
               call
               manie
               bookes
               of
               the
               holy
               Byble
               into
               doubt
               ,
               but
               absolutlie
               reiect
               them
               as
               Apocripha
               ,
               and
               your
               Grand
               father
               Luther
               with
               his
               truer
               disciples
               ,
               doth
               manie
               moe
               ,
               euen
               of
               those
               which
               you
               say
               is
               madnes
               to
               call
               into
               question
               .
               Hath
               malice
               so
               blinded
               you
               ,
               and
               wilfull
               rage
               against
               the
               truth
               made
               you
               so
               madd
               ,
               that
               you
               feele
               not
               the
               deadly
               woundes
               
               which
               you
               geue
               your selfe
               ,
               whilst
               you
               strike
               ,
               or
               at
               least
               thinke
               to
               strike
               your
               aduersarie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             what
             iuglinge
             is
             this
             ?
             we
             beleeue
             these
             bookes
             to
             be
             theirs
             whose
             names
             they
             carrie
             ,
             for
             the
             authoritie
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             that
             is
             the
             Pope
             ,
             who
             is
             S.
             Peeters
             successour
             ,
             and
             holdeth
             all
             his
             authoritie
             from
             him
             ,
             and
             yett
             we
             cannot
             beleeue
             S.
             Peeter
             himselfe
             ,
             that
             this
             Epistle
             is
             his
             ,
             but
             because
             the
             present
             Pope
             hath
             so
             determined
             it
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               say
               that
               you
               iugle
               here
               you
               are
               so
               grossely
               impertinent
               ,
               and
               hoodle
               vppe
               so
               manie
               apparant
               absurdities
               in
               these
               fewe
               wordes
               .
               Where
               learned
               you
               I
               pray
               you
               that
               the
               Pope
               is
               the
               churche
               ?
               or
               that
               he
               holdeth
               all
               his
               authoritie
               from
               S.
               Peter
               and
               not
               from
               Christ
               himselfe
               ?
               Againe
               where
               doth
               S
               Peter
               testifie
               that
               this
               is
               his
               Epistle
               ?
               haue
               you
               or
               anie
               of
               your
               reformed
               bretheren
               heard
               him
               say
               it
               ?
               no
               such
               thinge
               .
               Seeing
               therefore
               neither
               you
               nor
               anie
               man
               nowe
               a
               liue
               euer
               heard
               him
               testifie
               anie
               such
               thinge
               ,
               what
               great
               iuglinge
               is
               it
               I
               pray
               you
               ,
               to
               beleeue
               a
               liuely
               and
               liuinge
               witnes
               ,
               assisted
               by
               the
               spiritt
               of
               truth
               ,
               and
               taught
               by
               those
               who
               lineallie
               descended
               from
               S.
               Peter
               testifiinge
               that
               these
               are
               S.
               Peters
               writinges
               ,
               rather
               then
               to
               beleeue
               a
               doombe
               paper
               or
               parchment
               ▪
               which
               might
               be
               written
               by
               some
               other
               as
               well
               as
               other
               thinges
               ,
               that
               went
               a
               broade
               vnder
               the
               same
               Apostles
               name
               ?
               And
               by
               that
               which
               hath
               beē
               hitherto
               sayde
               on
               both
               sides
               ,
               you
               may
               see
               (
               if
               you
               will
               not
               shut
               your
               eies
               that
               you
               may
               not
               see
               )
               that
               it
               is
               cleare
               ▪
               (
               notwithstandinge
               all
               your
               childishe
               ianglinge
               )
               that
               all
               articles
               of
               faith
               are
               not
               contayned
               in
               scriptues
               ,
               otherwise
               then
               is
               mentioned
               in
               the
               position
               of
               the
               Manuall
               :
               nowe
               lett
               vs
               see
               your
               answere
               to
               the
               other
               proofes
               of
               the
               same
               position
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               To
               your
               second
               instance
               ,
               we
               say
               with
               Saint
               August
               .
               that
               we
               are
               not
               willinge
               to
               moue
               anie
               questions
               aboute
               the
               Mother
               of
               God
               ,
               for
               the
               honour
               we
               beare
               vnto
               her
               sonne
               .
               Yett
               sith
               you
               stirre
               the
               coales
               ,
               we
               answere
               that
               it
               is
               an
               highe
               pointe
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               and
               sufficientlie
               prooued
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               that
               Christe
               was
               borne
               of
               an
               intemerat
               Virgin
               :
               but
               whether
               after
               his
               birth
               shee
               were
               knowne
               of
               Ioseph
               ,
               thoughe
               the
               negatiue
            
             
             
               be
               a
               seemelie
               and
               reuerend
               truth
               ;
               yett
               we
               say
               with
               Basill
               ,
               that
               it
               toucheth
               not
               our
               faith
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               woulde
               seeme
               to
               be
               religiouslie
               affected
               towardes
               the
               blessed
               Virgin
               ,
               but
               notwithstandinge
               you
               minse
               S.
               Aug
               :
               wordes
               least
               you
               shoulde
               doe
               her
               too
               much
               honour
               ,
               his
               wordes
               are
               these
               .
               
                 De
                 Maria
                 propter
                 honorem
                 Saluatoris
                 nullam
                 cum
                 de
                 ●eccatis
                 agitur
                 habere
                 volo
                 quaestionem
                 .
              
               And
               in
               the
               end
               you
               are
               content
               rather
               to
               incline
               towardes
               the
               old
               heretike
               Heluidius
               ,
               then
               to
               beleeue
               with
               the
               holy
               catholike
               churche
               concerninge
               the
               perpetuall
               virginitie
               of
               the
               blessed
               Virgin.
               Where
               is
               nowe
               I
               pray
               you
               your
               rule
               of
               faith
               before
               mentioned
               ,
               
                 non
                 credimus
              
               
               
                 quia
                 non
                 legimus
              
               ?
               I
               coniure
               you
               vppon
               forfeiture
               of
               your
               honestie
               and
               integritie
               ,
               either
               to
               reiect
               that
               rule
               as
               noe
               sufficient
               grounde
               of
               faith
               ,
               in
               anie
               article
               ,
               or
               else
               to
               beleeue
               that
               the
               blessed
               Virgin
               was
               neuer
               knowne
               of
               anie
               man.
               Take
               whether
               parte
               you
               please
               &
               you
               shall
               geue
               sentence
               for
               me
               against
               your selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Your
             thirde
             instance
             is
             no
             article
             of
             faith
             but
             ●
             Canon
             of
             manners
             ,
             so
             in
             the
             number
             not
             of
             
             thinges
             to
             be
             beleeued
             but
             to
             be
             donne
             .
             Wherein
             thoughe
             to
             the
             Apostles
             for
             the
             auoydinge
             of
             scandall
             ,
             for
             the
             eatinge
             of
             thinges
             strangled
             ,
             and
             blood
             ,
             yett
             when
             the
             offence
             was
             remoued
             the
             eatinge
             was
             allowed
             .
             Rom.
             14.
             14.
             1.
             
             Tim.
             4.
             4.
             and
             Saint
             August
             .
             prooueth
             it
             out
             of
             S.
             
             Mathewe
             cap.
             15.
             17.
             18.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Are
               you
               so
               blockishe
               that
               you
               doe
               not
               ,
               or
               so
               peruerse
               that
               you
               will
               not
               ,
               see
               the
               difference
               betweene
               the
               practise
               of
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               and
               the
               doctrine
               of
               the
               lawfulnes
               of
               the
               same
               practise
               ?
               Whereby
               you
               might
               be
               taught
               ,
               that
               thoughe
               the
               first
               be
               not
               an
               article
               of
               faith
               ,
               yett
               the
               second
               may
               be
               .
               For
               example
               thoughe
               it
               be
               not
               an
               article
               of
               faith
               for
               two
               single
               persons
               to
               marrie
               together
               ,
               but
               a
               matter
               of
               practise
               ,
               yett
               is
               it
               a
               matter
               of
               faith
               that
               they
               may
               lawfullie
               marrie
               together
               ,
               as
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               not
               denie
               ,
               and
               so
               in
               fiue
               hundreth
               more
               thinges
               .
               That
               the
               Apostles
               did
               make
               that
               prohibition
               for
               a
               tyme
               onlie
               and
               not
               to
               continue
               euer
               ,
               where
               is
               it
               written
               ▪
               or
               whence
               haue
               you
               it
               ,
               but
               by
               the
               churches
               authoritie
               &
               interpretation
               ?
               The
               places
               of
               scriptures
               by
               ▪
               you
               cited
               (
               were
               they
               to
               the
               purpose
               as
               they
               are
               not
               )
               woulde
               be
               sufficient
               arguments
               to
               make
               some
               of
               the
               bookes
               doubtfull
               as
               cōtradictinge
               the
               one
               the
               other
               ,
               were
               there
               not
               a
               iudge
               to
               reconcile
               them
               ,
               and
               bringe
               them
               to
               attonement
               togeather
               .
               And
               thus
               you
               see
               all
               the
               three
               instances
               brought
               in
               proofe
               of
               the
               catholike
               position
               in
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               to
               remaine
               firme
               and
               solide
               ,
               and
               your
               euasions
               to
               be
               childishe
               wranglings
               without
               truth
               or
               substance
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Thus
             you
             see
             you
             fight
             against
             God
             ,
             when
             you
             warre
             against
             the
             perfection
             of
             holy
             worde
             .
             Which
             that
             you
             may
             more
             plainlie
             perceiue
             in
             
             the
             last
             place
             I
             will
             sett
             downe
             the
             protestants
             doctrine
             ,
             not
             in
             such
             double
             tearmes
             as
             you
             deuised
             ,
             but
             theire
             owne
             wordes
             as
             they
             haue
             positiuelie
             deliuered
             with
             the
             seuerall
             authorities
             of
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             whereby
             they
             confirme
             it
             ,
             and
             testimonies
             of
             fathers
             ,
             whereby
             they
             shewe
             the
             consanguinitie
             of
             it
             with
             the
             purest
             Christians
             .
             For
             the
             positions
             sett
             downe
             by
             you
             ,
             are
             not
             by
             them
             acknowledged
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               deny
               my
               positions
               to
               be
               true
               as
               (
               hauinge
               hitherto
               disputed
               against
               them
               )
               you
               seeme
               to
               doe
               ,
               then
               must
               you
               of
               necessitie
               acknowledge
               the
               contradictorie
               to
               be
               true
               ,
               and
               maintaine
               them
               as
               yours
               ,
               vnles
               you
               will
               haue
               both
               contradictories
               to
               be
               false
               ,
               which
               no
               man
               yett
               euer
               hearde
               of
               .
               But
               why
               doe
               you
               not
               put
               downe
               the
               positions
               which
               I
               call
               the
               protestants
               positions
               ,
               that
               the
               reader
               might
               see
               how
               iustlie
               you
               denie
               them
               to
               be
               yours
               ?
               I
               will
               supply
               your
               defect
               ,
               that
               the
               indifferent
               reader
               may
               iudge
               whether
               the
               positions
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Manuall
               vnder
               the
               title
               of
               protestants
               positions
               ,
               be
               not
               truly
               theirs
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             ,
             protestant
             positions
             .
          
        
         
           All
           articles
           of
           faith
           are
           so
           expresselie
           contained
           in
           scriptures
           as
           out
           of
           them
           onlie
           full
           proofe
           may
           be
           made
           thereof
           .
        
         
           All
           articles
           of
           faith
           are
           at
           least
           so
           contained
           in
           holy
           scriptures
           ,
           as
           without
           any
           testimonie
           or
           authoritie
           of
           the
           churche
           ,
           or
           traditions
           they
           may
           thence
           be
           plainly
           and
           distinctlie
           deduced
           .
        
         
           These
           are
           the
           positions
           in
           the
           Manuall
           in
           this
           first
           controuersie
           vnder
           the
           title
           of
           protestant
           positions
           ,
           which
           you
           say
           are
           not
           acknowledged
           by
           them
           .
           And
           
           yett
           if
           I
           vnderstande
           your
           wordes
           you
           admitte
           them
           ,
           neither
           can
           you
           iu●l●e
           denie
           them
           as
           I
           sayde
           before
           :
           but
           lett
           vs
           heare
           what
           you
           say
           for
           your selfe
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             They
             say
             not
             that
             all
             articles
             of
             faith
             ,
             are
             expresselie
             sett
             downe
             in
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             but
             either
             expressely
             or
             analogicallie
             ,
             and
             so
             they
             haue
             a
             full
             proofe
             out
             of
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Compare
               this
               position
               with
               that
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               in
               the
               first
               place
               ,
               and
               see
               wherein
               they
               differ
               .
               Only
               you
               make
               the
               first
               parte
               of
               your
               position
               absolute
               ,
               as
               if
               it
               had
               been
               so
               set
               downe
               by
               me
               ,
               but
               this
               is
               your
               owne
               fraude
               and
               deceipte
               .
               For
               I
               made
               it
               not
               absolute
               but
               modall
               or
               comparatiue
               ,
               as
               appeareth
               by
               the
               thinge
               it selfe
               .
               The
               position
               therefore
               sett
               downe
               by
               me
               is
               yours
               ,
               and
               therefore
               to
               be
               prooued
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ▪
               as
               the
               position
               it selfe
               requireth
               ?
               ●herein
               if
               you
               fasle
               ,
               your
               position
               will
               be
               conuinced
               to
               be
               false
               ,
               and
               your
               faith
               accordinglie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Secondlie
             they
             admitte
             of
             the
             testimonie
             of
             the
             churche
             both
             concerninge
             articles
             of
             faith
             ,
             and
             the
             scriptures
             themselues
             ;
             First
             to
             discerne
             true
             from
             false
             ;
             Secondlie
             publiklie
             to
             preache
             them
             ;
             Thirdlie
             to
             interpret
             and
             expounde
             them
             ,
             but
             euer
             accordinge
             to
             the
             scriptures
             themselues
             ,
             without
             anie
             addition
             of
             her
             owne
             ,
             either
             of
             sufficiencie
             or
             perfection
             vnto
             them
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               That
               is
               in
               good
               speach
               :
               they
               admitt
               the
               testimony
               of
               the
               churche
               so
               farr
               as
               it
               contradicteth
               not
               theire
               errours
               Or
               they
               admitte
               of
               it
               not
               to
               be
               iudged
               by
               it
               ,
               for
               so
               all
               disputes
               woulde
               quicklie
               haue
               an
               end
               ;
               but
               to
               iudge
               it
               themselues
               ,
               for
               so
               they
               knowe
               they
               may
               wrangle
               eternallie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Here
             then
             is
             the
             difference
             ,
             that
             the
             papists
             say
             the
             churche
             addeth
             sufficiencie
             to
             the
             scriptures
             and
             fulnes
             .
             The
             protestants
             say
             shee
             addeth
             none
             ,
             but
             sheweth
             that
             which
             is
             in
             it
             .
             The
             papists
             say
             shee
             brought
             light
             vnto
             them
             .
             The
             protestants
             say
             shee
             bringeth
             none
             ,
             but
             declareth
             and
             manifestesh
             that
             which
             it
             hath
             in
             it selfe
             .
             This
             then
             is
             theire
             doctrine
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               catholikes
               doe
               teache
               and
               beleeue
               that
               the
               churche
               of
               God
               hath
               infallible
               authoritie
               to
               declare
               what
               bookes
               are
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               and
               also
               to
               deliuer
               the
               true
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               thereof
               ▪
               neither
               of
               which
               the
               scriptures
               do
               performe
               by
               themselues
               ;
               and
               yett
               are
               they
               both
               necessarie
               if
               not
               to
               euerie
               Christiā
               in
               particular
               ,
               yett
               to
               the
               whole
               churche
               in
               generall
               .
               They
               doe
               not
               teach
               or
               beleeue
               that
               the
               churche
               addeth
               anie
               truth
               or
               verity
               to
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               they
               immediately
               haue
               from
               God
               himselfe
               ,
               whose
               word
               and
               reuelation
               they
               containe
               ,
               but
               shee
               declareth
               vnto
               vs
               infalliblie
               what
               are
               the
               verities
               contayned
               in
               them
               .
               To
               which
               beleefe
               and
               doctrine
               you
               seeme
               to
               come
               verie
               neere
               in
               your
               last
               wordes
               ,
               if
               you
               were
               constant
               therein
               .
               But
               you
               say
               and
               vnsay
               at
               euerie
               turne
               .
               Nowe
               lett
               vs
               heare
               the
               positions
               which
               you
               say
               the
               protestants
               acknowledge
               in
               this
               controuersie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             ANTITHESIS
             .
          
           
             All
             truth
             concerninge
             faith
             and
             good
             workes
             necessarie
             vnto
             saluation
             ,
             is
             sufficientlie
             and
             fullie
             deliuered
             vnto
             vs
             in
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Seinge
               you
               voluntarilie
               enter
               combate
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               not
               obserue
               the
               conditions
               prescribed
               ?
               It
               was
               
               required
               ,
               that
               in
               case
               you
               woulde
               impugne
               the
               catholike
               position
               sett
               downe
               and
               prooued
               in
               the
               Manuall
               (
               as
               hitherto
               you
               haue
               laboured
               to
               doe
               )
               you
               should
               prooue
               by
               expresse
               scriptures
               the
               contradictorie
               ,
               which
               in
               that
               case
               must
               necessarilie
               be
               yours
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               frame
               vnto
               your selfe
               another
               ,
               which
               may
               stand
               with
               that
               you
               impugned
               ,
               beinge
               like
               a
               shooe
               that
               fitteth
               euerie
               foote
               .
            
             
               This
               I
               say
               ,
               because
               the
               position
               sett
               downe
               here
               by
               you
               vnderstoode
               with
               these
               two
               restrictons
               ,
               is
               not
               denyed
               of
               anie
               catholike
               .
               The
               first
               is
               ,
               that
               it
               include
               not
               the
               scriptures
               themselues
               ,
               but
               suppose
               them
               as
               beleeued
               .
               The
               second
               that
               it
               speake
               onlie
               of
               truthes
               or
               articles
               necessary
               to
               euerie
               mans
               saluation
               .
               For
               these
               are
               fewe
               and
               sufficientlie
               expressed
               in
               holy
               scripture
               .
               Your
               position
               vnderstoode
               in
               this
               mannet
               hath
               noe
               aduersarie
               ,
               and
               therefore
               needeth
               not
               your
               feeble
               and
               weake
               proofes
               .
               Neuertheles
               because
               your
               proofes
               seeme
               to
               suppose
               a
               further
               meaninge
               in
               your
               position
               ;
               to
               witt
               that
               all
               thinges
               whatsoeuer
               without
               exception
               or
               restriction
               ,
               are
               to
               be
               beleeued
               either
               by
               euerie
               man
               in
               perticular
               ,
               or
               all
               men
               in
               generall
               ,
               are
               fullie
               sett
               downe
               in
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               which
               is
               opposite
               to
               the
               catholike
               position
               of
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               I
               will
               examine
               your
               proofes
               and
               try
               what
               weight
               they
               beare
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             of
             the
             protestants
             position
             .
          
           
             Deuteronomie
             4.
             2.
             yee
             shall
             not
             adde
             vnto
             the
             worde
             which
             I
             commaunde
             you
             ,
             neither
             shall
             yee
             detracte
             from
             it
             ,
             that
             yee
             may
             keepe
             the
             commaundements
             of
             the
             Lorde
             your
             God
             which
             I
             cōmaunde
             you
             .
             Argument
             .
             That
             whereunto
             nothing
             must
             be
             added
             ,
             nothinge
             detracted
             ,
             contayneth
             a
             perfect
             and
             full
             doctrine
             of
             faith
             and
             manners
             ,
             such
             is
             the
             scripture
             :
             ergo
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               What
               will
               you
               vnderstand
               ▪
               by
               the
               (
               word
               )
               which
               God
               heere
               commaundeth
               ?
               onlie
               the
               fiue
               bookes
               of
               
               Moises
               which
               then
               were
               onlie
               extant
               ?
               If
               you
               vnderstande
               it
               so
               (
               as
               trulie
               you
               cannott
               otherwise
               )
               what
               will
               you
               say
               to
               all
               the
               reste
               of
               the
               bookes
               ,
               both
               of
               the
               ould
               &
               newe
               testament
               written
               since
               ,
               were
               they
               added
               against
               gods
               commandement
               ?
               you
               will
               feare
               to
               say
               so
               .
               What
               then
               will
               this
               place
               serue
               you
               for
               ?
               to
               make
               a
               poore
               shewe
               of
               some
               proofe
               out
               of
               scripture
               to
               deceaue
               your
               lesse
               skilfull
               reader
               ,
               and
               for
               noe
               other
               purpose
               .
               But
               peraduenture
               you
               will
               contend
               that
               it
               ought
               to
               be
               vnderstoode
               of
               all
               that
               which
               God
               shoulde
               speake
               ,
               aswell
               after
               as
               before
               ,
               and
               so
               to
               comprehend
               the
               whole
               scripture
               .
               This
               sence
               (
               though
               not
               verie
               probable
               )
               I
               am
               content
               to
               accept
               of
               ,
               that
               you
               may
               see
               I
               doe
               not
               deale
               niggardlie
               with
               you
               .
               To
               your
               argument
               therefore
               I
               say
               ,
               you
               iugle
               somethinge
               in
               itt
               ,
               but
               not
               cunninglie
               .
               If
               you
               woulde
               conclude
               anie
               thinge
               out
               of
               this
               place
               of
               scripture
               ,
               you
               must
               say
               in
               your
               minor
               ,
               but
               such
               is
               the
               word
               of
               God.
               And
               then
               the
               conclusion
               will
               be
               directlie
               against
               your selfe
               ,
               who
               detracteth
               from
               gods
               worde
               both
               written
               :
               denyinge
               manie
               and
               sundrie
               bookes
               of
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               and
               also
               vnwritten
               ,
               reiectinge
               all
               traditiōs
               ▪
               which
               the
               scriptures
               themselues
               commaunde
               vs
               to
               receiue
               .
               And
               so
               haue
               you
               concluded
               your selfe
               a
               manifest
               transgressour
               of
               gods
               lawe
               and
               commaundement
               .
               When
               you
               shall
               answere
               sufficientlie
               this
               argument
               ,
               I
               will
               pay
               you
               a
               fee
               worthe
               your
               doctors
               Cappe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             2.
             
          
           
             Prou
             :
             30.
             5.
             6.
             
             Euerie
             worde
             of
             God
             is
             pure
             ,
             he
             is
             a
             shielde
             to
             them
             that
             put
             theire
             trust
             in
             him
             ,
             adde
             you
             nothinge
             vnto
             his
             worde
             ,
             least
             he
             reprooue
             thee
             ,
             and
             thou
             be
             founde
             a
             lyar
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Therefore
               what
               ?
               Therefore
               all
               articles
               of
               faith
               are
               fullie
               deliuered
               in
               scripture
               ?
               make
               this
               conclusion
               by
               lawfull
               argument
               but
               of
               this
               place
               ,
               and
               I
               shall
               esteeme
               you
               a
               Maister
               Logician
               .
               But
               it
               is
               enough
               for
               you
               
               to
               quote
               a
               place
               of
               scripture
               thoughe
               as
               fitly
               for
               your
               purpose
               as
               Pruritanus
               doth
               manie
               in
               your
               behalfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             3.
             
          
           
             Reuelations
             ●2
             .
             18.
             19.
             
             I
             testify
             vnto
             euerie
             man
             that
             heareth
             the
             wordes
             of
             the
             prophecie
             of
             this
             booke
             ,
             if
             anie
             shall
             adde
             vnto
             these
             thinges
             ,
             God
             shall
             adde
             vnto
             him
             the
             plagues
             that
             are
             written
             in
             this
             booke
             ,
             and
             if
             anie
             shall
             take
             away
             from
             the
             wordes
             of
             the
             booke
             of
             this
             prophecie
             ,
             God
             shall
             take
             away
             his
             parte
             out
             of
             the
             booke
             of
             life
             ,
             and
             out
             of
             the
             holy
             cittie
             ,
             and
             from
             the
             thinges
             that
             are
             written
             in
             this
             booke
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               What
               if
               I
               should
               say
               with
               your
               Grand
               Father
               Luther
               that
               this
               booke
               is
               apocriphall
               ,
               and
               therefore
               your
               proofe
               of
               no
               worth
               ?
               But
               God
               forbidd
               I
               should
               be
               so
               prophane
               as
               to
               vse
               such
               an
               aunswere
               .
               I
               say
               therefore
               that
               to
               conclude
               anie
               thinge
               out
               of
               this
               testimonie
               against
               me
               ,
               you
               must
               conclude
               not
               onlie
               your selfe
               but
               S.
               Paule
               also
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               writers
               of
               holy
               scripture
               to
               be
               subiect
               to
               this
               curse
               here
               mentioned
               ,
               seeinge
               they
               haue
               all
               added
               manie
               thinges
               to
               this
               booke
               ;
               that
               is
               they
               haue
               taught
               and
               written
               manie
               thinges
               to
               be
               beleeued
               and
               obserued
               not
               contayned
               in
               this
               booke
               ,
               which
               is
               the
               sence
               and
               force
               of
               your
               argument
               and
               which
               you
               are
               bounde
               to
               solue
               .
               So
               blinde
               hath
               heresie
               made
               you
               ,
               that
               you
               see
               not
               what
               is
               with
               you
               ,
               what
               against
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             4.
             
          
           
             Gal.
             1.
             8.
             9.
             
             Though
             we
             or
             an
             angell
             from
             heauen
             preach
             vnto
             you
             besides
             that
             we
             haue
             preached
             ,
             lett
             him
             be
             accursed
             .
             1.
             
             Cor.
             4.
             6.
             
             That
             yee
             might
             learne
             in
             vs
             not
             to
             be
             wise
             aboue
             that
             which
             is
             written
             .
             If
             neither
             an
             Apostle
             nor
             Angell
             
             from
             heauen
             may
             preach
             anie
             thinge
             besides
             that
             which
             is
             written
             ,
             nor
             be
             wise
             aboue
             it
             ,
             then
             that
             which
             is
             written
             contayneth
             a
             full
             doctrine
             both
             of
             faith
             and
             manners
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               argument
               is
               like
               the
               rest
               ,
               and
               as
               trulie
               deducted
               from
               the
               places
               quoted
               .
               In
               the
               first
               place
               the
               Apostle
               faith
               not
               〈…〉
               that
               which
               is
               written
               (
               as
               you
               fraudulentlie
               soist
               in
               )
               but
               besides
               that
               which
               we
               haue
               preached
               .
               That
               your
               argument
               therefore
               may
               conclude
               ,
               you
               must
               shewe
               out
               of
               scripture
               that
               the
               Apostle
               had
               not
               preached
               anie
               thinge
               more
               then
               at
               that
               tyme
               he
               had
               written
               ;
               which
               will
               bee
               a
               taske
               impossible
               for
               you
               euer
               to
               performe
               ,
               especially
               
               seeinge
               the
               Apostle
               himselfe
               testifieth
               the
               contrarie
               commaundinge
               his
               disciples
               .
               To
               holde
               the
               traditiōs
               which
               they
               had
               learned
               ,
               whether
               by
               worde
               or
               Epistle
               .
               Againe
               when
               he
               saith
               besides
               that
               we
               haue
               preached
               ,
               he
               meaneth
               contrarie
               to
               that
               we
               haue
               preached
               
               as
               S.
               Aug
               :
               expoundeth
               him
               ,
               1200.
               yeeres
               before
               your
               heresie
               was
               hatched
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               second
               testimonie
               the
               vulgar
               translation
               ,
               which
               was
               receiued
               for
               authenticall
               in
               S.
               Hieromes
               tymes
               ,
               hath
               not
               these
               wordes
               
                 not
                 to
                 be
                 wi●●
              
               .
               But
               to
               doe
               you
               a
               fauour
               I
               will
               admitte
               of
               your
               text
               ;
               and
               I
               answere
               that
               your
               argument
               is
               foolish
               .
               For
               he
               that
               is
               wise
               with
               the
               churche
               ,
               teachinge
               or
               beleeuinge
               with
               the
               churche
               ,
               which
               the
               scriptures
               testifie
               to
               be
               the
               piller
               and
               ground
               of
               truth
               ,
               is
               not
               wise
               aboue
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               but
               conformeablie
               to
               that
               which
               is
               written
               .
               And
               thus
               you
               see
               your
               position
               ,
               thoughe
               positiue
               or
               affirmatiue
               to
               be
               so
               farr
               from
               being
               prooued
               by
               expresse
               scripture
               ,
               that
               it
               hath
               not
               the
               least
               ground
               therein
               .
            
             
               Whereas
               the
               positions
               of
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               thoughe
               onlie
               negatiue
               haue
               expresse
               instāces
               out
               of
               the
               holy
               scripture
               .
               Lett
               therefore
               the
               indifferent
               and
               iudicious
               reader
               iudge
               whether
               of
               them
               hath
               greater
               arguments
               
               of
               truth
               .
               And
               if
               we
               should
               followe
               you
               rule
               ,
               
                 non
                 cre●●imus
                 quia
                 ●o●
                 ie
                 imus
                 ,
              
               howe
               woulde
               you
               perswade
               vs
               to
               beleeue
               ,
               that
               
                 all
                 truth
                 pertayninge
                 to
                 ●aith
                 and
                 manners
                 necessarie
                 to
                 saluation
                 is
                 fu●lie
                 deliuered
                 in
                 holy
                 sceipture
              
               Seeinge
               you
               cannot
               shewe
               vs
               it
               written
               in
               anie
               place
               ?
               whereby
               you
               see
               your selfe
               either
               driuen
               to
               disauowe
               your
               rule
               of
               beleefe
               or
               to
               confesse
               this
               your
               position
               not
               to
               be
               beleeued
               .
               But
               peraduenture
               you
               will
               make
               your
               proofes
               stronger
               out
               of
               the
               fathers
               .
               Lett
               vs
               see
               what
               you
               bringe
               out
               of
               them
               .
               But
               marke
               I
               pray
               you
               whether
               they
               be
               expositions
               of
               the
               places
               of
               scripture
               cited
               in
               your
               fauour
               ,
               or
               sayinges
               vttered
               vppon
               other
               occasions
               .
               If
               they
               be
               of
               the
               first
               sorte
               ,
               they
               will
               be
               more
               forcible
               for
               you
               ;
               but
               if
               they
               be
               of
               the
               other
               kinde
               (
               as
               they
               are
               they
               will
               be
               of
               lesse
               moment
               for
               your
               purpose
               .
               Well
               these
               they
               are
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             5.
             
          
           
             
               All
               thinges
               that
               our
               lorde
               did
               are
               not
               written
               ,
            
             
             
               but
               these
               thinges
               which
               the
               writers
               thought
               sufficient
               for
               faith
               and
               manners
               ,
               that
               shininge
               both
               in
               truth
               of
               ●aith
               and
               vertuous
               workes
               we
               might
               come
               to
               the
               kingdome
               of
               heauen
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               scriptures
               testifyinge
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               of
               the
               pastours
               thereof
               ,
               with
               the
               obligation
               that
               euerie
               one
               hath
               to
               heare
               and
               obay
               them
               ,
               are
               trulie
               sayd
               by
               S.
               Cyrill
               to
               contayne
               those
               thinges
               which
               are
               sufficient
               for
               faith
               and
               manners
               .
               For
               the
               thinges
               that
               are
               not
               directlie
               expressed
               in
               them
               ,
               are
               learned
               by
               the
               pastours
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               authorised
               by
               the
               scriptures
               .
               I
               maruell
               you
               were
               not
               afrayde
               of
               S.
               Cyrill
               ,
               seeinge
               he
               testifyeth
               so
               directlie
               the
               necessitie
               of
               good
               workes
               besides
               faith
               for
               the
               gayninge
               of
               the
               kingdome
               of
               heauen
               .
               But
               you
               receiue
               the
               fathers
               no
               farther
               then
               they
               seeme
               to
               make
               for
               you
               ,
               such
               is
               your
               sinceritie
               .
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             6.
             
          
           
             
               Whatsoeuer
               is
               sought
               for
               vnto
               saluation
               ,
               all
            
             
             
               that
               is
               nowe
               fulfilled
               in
               the
               scriptures
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               ignorance
               or
               peruersitie
               in
               this
               place
               is
               intollerable
               .
               For
               S.
               Chrisost
               :
               speaketh
               of
               the
               institution
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               ,
               whereby
               all
               thinges
               necessarie
               to
               saluation
               are
               fulfilled
               ,
               and
               not
               of
               the
               scriptures
               contayninge
               fullie
               all
               thinges
               necessarie
               to
               beleeued
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             7.
             
          
           
             
               We
               adore
               the
               fulnes
               of
               scriptures
               ,
               lett
               Hermogenes
            
             
             
               shewe
               his
               opinion
               to
               be
               written
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               not
               written
               lett
               him
               feare
               the
               woe
               denounced
               to
               adders
               and
               detractours
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Tertullian
               speaketh
               of
               the
               fulnes
               of
               the
               scripture
               in
               that
               one
               point
               ,
               whereupon
               he
               disputed
               with
               that
               heretike
               ,
               &
               not
               in
               all
               other
               articles
               of
               faith
               as
               is
               manifest
               by
               the
               place
               it selfe
               ,
               which
               the
               iudicious
               reader
               may
               see
               and
               satisfy
               himselfe
               ,
               for
               here
               it
               cannot
               without
               tediousnes
               and
               ouer
               much
               prolixitie
               bee
               sett
               downe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             8.
             
          
           
             
               If
               anie
               shall
               preach
               either
               of
               Christ
               or
               his
            
             
             
               churche
               ,
               or
               of
               anie
               other
               thinge
               that
               pertayneth
               to
               beleefe
               or
               life
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               say
               ,
               if
               we
               but
               that
               which
               Paule
               addeth
               ,
               if
               an
               Angell
               from
               heauen
               shall
               shew
               vnto
               you
               besides
               that
               which
               you
               haue
               receiued
               in
               the
               scriptures
               of
               the
               lawe
               and
               the
               Gospell
               lett
               him
               be
               accursed
               .
               That
               which
               hath
               a
               fulnes
               in
               it
               as
               Tertull.
               and
               Chris
               .
               speake
               ,
               and
               contayneth
               in
               itt
               all
               thinges
               pertayninge
               to
               faith
               and
               manners
               as
               Cyrill
               and
               Aug.
               say
               ;
               that
               doth
               fullie
               prooue
               all
               articles
               of
               beleefe
               and
               life
               such
               is
               the
               scripture
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               S.
               Aug.
               wordes
               haue
               the
               sence
               and
               meaninge
               that
               S.
               Paules
               haue
               ,
               takinge
               be●i●es
               for
               against
               or
               contrarie
               to
               the
               scriptures
               as
               S.
               August
               .
               explicateth
               himselfe
               tract
               .
               98.
               in
               Ioh
               before
               mentioned
               .
               Nowe
               your
               argument
               out
               of
               all
               these
               places
               is
               shewed
               to
               be
               vayne
               and
               of
               noe
               force
               by
               the
               particular
               answere
               to
               euerie
               authoritie
               :
               And
               thus
               farr
               haue
               you
               brought
               nothinge
               more
               ,
               for
               the
               proofe
               of
               your
               position
               ,
               thē
               anie
               heretike
               in
               the
               worlde
               may
               ,
               or
               might
               haue
               brought
               for
               the
               proofe
               of
               his
               heresie
               .
               For
               euerie
               heretike
               can
               bringe
               single
               places
               of
               scripture
               ,
               yea
               and
               of
               fathers
               in
               fauour
               of
               his
               heresie
               .
               But
               to
               bringe
               scriptures
               interpreted
               by
               the
               fathers
               in
               fauour
               of
               theire
               heresie
               ,
               is
               a
               thinge
               (
               if
               not
               impossible
               )
               at
               least
               verie
               harde
               and
               rare
               ,
               beinge
               the
               priuiledge
               of
               the
               catholike
               churche
               alone
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             ANTITHESIS
             2.
             
          
           
             The
             scriptures
             contayne
             in
             themselues
             a
             perfect
             doctrine
             of
             saith
             and
             good
             workes
             necessarie
             to
             saluation
             ,
             without
             testimonie
             authoritie
             or
             tradition
             of
             the
             churche
             ,
             addinge
             vnto
             them
             or
             bringinge
             from
             without
             them
             anie
             other
             doctrine
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               position
               is
               the
               same
               in
               sence
               (
               if
               either
               of
               them
               haue
               anie
               sence
               )
               with
               the
               former
               ,
               and
               therefore
               vainlie
               is
               tearmed
               by
               you
               ,
               a
               second
               Antithesis
               ,
               vnlesse
               euerie
               tyme
               you
               write
               a
               position
               varyinge
               a
               fewe
               wordes
               in
               it
               ,
               but
               retayninge
               the
               same
               sence
               ,
               you
               will
               say
               it
               is
               a
               newe
               positiō
               .
               But
               to
               lett
               this
               passe
               your
               proofes
               ,
               so
               farr
               as
               they
               make
               anie
               thinge
               against
               the
               catholike
               veritie
               are
               to
               be
               pondered
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             1.
             
          
           
             2.
             
             Tim.
             3.
             16.
             
             The
             whole
             scripture
             is
             diuinelie
             geuen
             ,
             and
             profitable
             for
             doctrine
             ,
             for
             reproofe
             ,
             for
             correction
             ,
             for
             instruction
             which
             is
             
             in
             righteousnes
             ,
             that
             the
             man
             of
             God
             may
             be
             perfectlie
             instructed
             in
             euerie
             good
             worke
             .
             That
             which
             perfecteth
             the
             man
             of
             God
             to
             euerie
             good
             worke
             ,
             contayneth
             perfect
             doctrine
             ,
             of
             faith
             and
             manners
             ,
             without
             addition
             of
             anie
             othèr
             ,
             but
             the
             scriptures
             do
             so
             :
             Ergo.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               must
               needes
               be
               obstinacie
               in
               errour
               ,
               and
               not
               ignoraunce
               ,
               as
               I
               thinke
               ,
               that
               maketh
               you
               abuse
               this
               place
               .
               For
               first
               you
               cannot
               be
               ignorant
               ,
               that
               the
               Apostle
               speaketh
               there
               of
               the
               scriptures
               of
               the
               olde
               testament
               ,
               wherewith
               S.
               Timothy
               was
               acquainted
               from
               his
               infancie
               ,
               which
               if
               you
               will
               say
               to
               contayne
               a
               perfect
               doctrine
               ,
               then
               is
               all
               the
               newe
               testament
               either
               superfluous
               ,
               or
               at
               the
               least
               not
               necessarie
               .
               Secondlie
               the
               Apostle
               peaketh
               not
               of
               the
               whole
               scripture
               taken
               together
               ,
               but
               of
               euerie
               parte
               thereof
               seuerallie
               ;
               meaninge
               that
               euerie
               parte
               of
               scripture
               is
               proffitable
               to
               teach
               correct
               ,
               and
               instruct
               ,
               which
               is
               true
               ,
               but
               nothinge
               to
               your
               purpose
               .
               And
               that
               he
               speaketh
               not
               of
               the
               whole
               scripture
               in
               the
               former
               sence
               ,
               but
               in
               the
               latter
               ,
               it
               is
               manifest
               .
               For
               when
               he
               wrote
               this
               to
               Timothie
               ,
               the
               whole
               scripture
               which
               the
               church
               nowe
               hath
               ,
               was
               not
               written
               .
               Lastlie
               lett
               it
               be
               sayd
               that
               he
               speaketh
               it
               of
               the
               whole
               scripture
               in
               the
               former
               sence
               ;
               yett
               he
               saith
               no
               more
               but
               that
               it
               
               is
               profitable
               to
               teache
               ,
               instruct
               &c.
               which
               I
               easilie
               graunt
               you
               ,
               and
               yett
               I
               say
               your
               argument
               drawne
               from
               thence
               is
               most
               friuolous
               ,
               as
               appeareth
               by
               the
               like
               sett
               downe
               before
               in
               answere
               of
               this
               of
               yours
               ,
               wherunto
               I
               referre
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             2.
             
          
           
             Iohn
             5.
             35.
             
             Search
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             for
             in
             them
             you
             thinke
             to
             haue
             eternall
             life
             .
             Luke
             16.
             29.
             
             They
             haue
             Moises
             &
             the
             prophetts
             lett
             thē
             heare
             them
             .
             That
             which
             teacheth
             how
             we
             may
             come
             
             to
             eternall
             life
             and
             shunne
             ,
             or
             escape
             eternall
             death
             ,
             contayneth
             a
             perfect
             doctrine
             of
             faith
             ,
             and
             good
             workes
             ;
             But
             the
             scriptures
             doe
             soe
             :
             ergo
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Make
               your
               minor
               proposition
               this
               as
               it
               should
               be
               ,
               
                 but
                 the
                 olde
              
               Testament
               doth
               soe
               (
               for
               of
               the
               olde
               testament
               onlie
               these
               places
               speake
               as
               is
               manifest
               )
               and
               your
               conclusion
               will
               serue
               directlie
               to
               exclude
               the
               whole
               newe
               testament
               from
               the
               perfect
               rule
               of
               faith
               Fye
               ,
               I
               am
               ashamed
               in
               your
               behalfe
               of
               such
               childishnes
               as
               you
               shewe
               in
               these
               arguments
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             3.
             
          
           
             Acts
             1.
             1.
             
             The
             former
             treatise
             haue
             I
             made
             ô
             Theophilus
             of
             all
             that
             Iesus
             began
             to
             doe
             and
             teach
             .
             These
             thinges
             that
             Christ
             did
             and
             taught
             contayne
             a
             perfect
             doctrine
             ,
             but
             these
             thinges
             are
             written
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Conclude
               ,
               therefore
               the
               onlie
               ghospell
               of
               S.
               Luke
               contayneth
               a
               perfect
               doctrine
               .
               Is
               this
               your
               intent
               ?
               noe
               ,
               but
               blinde
               malice
               against
               the
               euident
               truth
               draweth
               you
               into
               these
               grosse
               absurdities
               .
               If
               you
               haue
               noe
               care
               of
               your
               soule
               ,
               haue
               yett
               for
               shame
               some
               care
               of
               your
               credit
               and
               reputation
               ,
               for
               the
               gayninge
               of
               which
               you
               haue
               trauelled
               these
               fower
               or
               fiue
               yeeres
               to
               bringe
               foorthe
               this
               miserable
               heape
               of
               vnshapen
               absurdities
               .
               A
               miserable
               labour
               I
               wisse
               ,
               whereby
               you
               gaine
               nothinge
               but
               the
               reputation
               of
               an
               impertinent
               minister
               ,
               deuoyde
               of
               ordinarie
               iudgment
               .
               To
               these
               fewe
               testimonies
               of
               scripture
               so
               miserablie
               mistaken
               ,
               you
               adde
               some
               passages
               of
               the
               fathers
               ,
               to
               as
               good
               purpose
               as
               you
               did
               in
               the
               former
               Antithesis
               .
               These
               they
               are
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             Proofe
             4.
             
             
          
           
             If
             you
             be
             the
             disciples
             of
             the
             gospell
             saith
             Athanasius
             speake
             not
             iniquitie
             against
             God
             ,
             but
             walke
             
             in
             those
             thinges
             which
             are
             written
             or
             donne
             .
             For
             if
             you
             will
             speake
             diuers
             thinges
             from
             these
             thinges
             that
             are
             written
             ,
             why
             striue
             you
             with
             
             vs
             without
             them
             .
             The
             scriptures
             are
             perfect
             as
             spoken
             from
             the
             worde
             of
             God
             and
             his
             spiritt
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               S.
               Athanasius
               speaketh
               of
               such
               thinges
               ,
               as
               are
               not
               onlie
               not
               directly
               in
               scriptures
               ,
               but
               are
               against
               and
               contrarie
               to
               scriptures
               .
               S.
               Ireneus
               saith
               the
               scriptures
               beinge
               spoken
               by
               the
               spiritt
               of
               God
               are
               perfect
               ,
               as
               the
               thinges
               spoken
               by
               men
               are
               not
               ,
               which
               haue
               imperfections
               and
               therefore
               are
               subiect
               to
               corrections
               and
               amendments
               .
               You
               abuse
               therefore
               your
               reader
               with
               an
               equiuocall
               tearme
               of
               perfect
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             Proofe
             5.
             
          
           
             
               The
               order
               of
               this
               present
               tecture
               teacheth
               ,
            
             
             
               that
               we
               must
               nott
               adde
               anie
               thinge
               to
               the
               diuine
               precepts
               ,
               for
               if
               thou
               addest
               or
               detractest
               it
               is
               a
               preuarication
               of
               the
               precept
               .
               Oftentymes
               when
               a
               witnes
               addeth
               anie
               thinge
               of
               his
               owne
               he
               spotteth
               the
               whole
               creditt
               of
               his
               testimonie
               with
               a
               lye
               ,
               nothinge
               therefore
               thoughe
               it
               seeme
               good
               ,
               must
               be
               added
               .
               And
               a
               litle
               after
               ,
               if
               S.
               Iohn
               hath
               sayde
               of
               his
               writinge
               ,
               if
               anie
               man
               adde
               vnto
               these
               thinges
               ,
               God
               shall
               adde
               vnto
               him
               the
               plagues
               that
               are
               written
               in
               this
               booke
               ,
               and
               if
               anie
               man
               shall
               take
               away
               from
               the
               worde
               of
               this
               prophecie
               ,
               God
               shall
               take
               away
               his
               parte
               from
               the
               booke
               of
               life
               ,
               howe
               much
               more
               nothinge
               is
               to
               be
               added
               to
               godds
               precepts
               ?
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               That
               which
               is
               taught
               or
               commēded
               by
               the
               churche
               ,
               which
               the
               scripture
               commandeth
               vs
               to
               heare
               ,
               is
               not
               superadded
               to
               gods
               commandements
               or
               precepts
               but
               is
               comprised
               in
               them
               ,
               you
               therefore
               that
               
               will
               not
               heare
               and
               obey
               the
               churche
               ,
               which
               you
               are
               so
               expressely
               commaunded
               to
               heare
               ,
               euidentlie
               and
               damnablie
               detract
               from
               diuine
               precepts
               .
               Therefore
               this
               authoritie
               is
               so
               farr
               from
               proouinge
               anie
               thinge
               to
               your
               purpose
               ,
               that
               it
               ouerthroweth
               it
               rather
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             Proofe
             6.
             
          
           
             
               O
               Emperour
               doost
               thou
               demaunde
               what
               our
            
             
             
               faith
               is
               ?
               Heare
               it
               not
               out
               of
               newe
               papers
               ,
               but
               out
               of
               the
               bookes
               of
               God
               ;
               heare
               I
               pray
               thee
               the
               thinges
               that
               are
               written
               of
               Christ
               ,
               least
               ,
               vnder
               them
               those
               thinges
               that
               are
               not
               written
               should
               be
               preached
               .
               Open
               thy
               eares
               to
               those
               thinges
               that
               shall
               speake
               out
               of
               the
               bookes
               ,
               lifte
               vppe
               thy
               faith
               vnto
               God
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               defend
               any
               thinge
               scandalous
               ,
               nor
               anie
               thinge
               that
               is
               from
               without
               the
               gospell
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               authoritie
               is
               like
               the
               rest
               ;
               impertinent
               to
               your
               purpose
               ,
               and
               rather
               against
               you
               then
               for
               you
               .
               For
               he
               that
               defendeth
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               these
               thinges
               that
               are
               taught
               by
               her
               ,
               defendeth
               nothinge
               from
               without
               the
               bookes
               of
               God
               ;
               but
               he
               that
               defendeth
               the
               contrarie
               as
               you
               doe
               ,
               doth
               euidently
               impugne
               the
               gospell
               .
               S.
               Hill
               :
               willeth
               the
               Arrian
               Emperour
               to
               heare
               these
               thinges
               ,
               that
               are
               written
               of
               Christ
               as
               this
               ,
               
                 he
                 is
                 one
                 with
                 his
                 father
                 ,
              
               and
               the
               like
               ,
               and
               then
               he
               should
               be
               farr
               from
               beleeuinge
               that
               which
               is
               no
               where
               written
               ,
               to
               witt
               ,
               that
               he
               is
               a
               creature
               and
               inferiour
               to
               his
               father
               .
               Your
               cause
               is
               most
               miserable
               and
               despicable
               ,
               seeinge
               it
               is
               forced
               to
               begge
               testimonie
               of
               such
               extorted
               witnesses
               .
            
             
               And
               nowe
               I
               leaue
               to
               the
               iudicious
               reader
               ,
               be
               he
               catholicke
               or
               protestant
               to
               iudge
               ,
               whether
               the
               catholicke
               positions
               of
               this
               first
               controuersie
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               be
               not
               both
               more
               clearlie
               expressed
               ,
               and
               more
               firmelie
               and
               trulie
               prooued
               by
               scripture
               ,
               then
               the
               protestant
               position
               sett
               downe
               by
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               ,
               
               which
               is
               the
               chiefe
               issue
               of
               our
               controuersie
               and
               dispute
               .
               And
               further
               whether
               the
               positions
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Manuall
               vnder
               the
               title
               of
               protestant
               positions
               ,
               be
               not
               truly
               and
               iustly
               ascribed
               vnto
               them
               ,
               and
               more
               directlie
               pertayninge
               to
               the
               controuersie
               heere
               discussed
               ,
               then
               the
               others
               proposed
               by
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               MANVALL
               .
               
                 The
                 second
                 Controuersie
                 of
                 traditions
                 ,
                 Catholike
                 position
              
               1.
               
            
             
               The
               holy
               Apostles
               diliuered
               by
               worde
               of
               mouth
               ,
               moe
               thinges
               to
               be
               beleeued
               &
               obserued
               by
               the
               churche
               ,
               then
               either
               they
               found
               written
               or
               wrote
               themselues
               .
               And
               these
               thinges
               are
               vsuallie
               called
               traditions
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             You
             haue
             gotten
             a
             wolfe
             by
             the
             eare
             ,
             when
             you
             fasten
             on
             traditions
             ,
             if
             you
             lett
             them
             goe
             they
             carrie
             with
             them
             a
             great
             parte
             of
             your
             faith
             ,
             if
             you
             holde
             them
             fast
             ,
             you
             shewe
             you
             cannot
             prooue
             your
             faith
             from
             scriptures
             .
             For
             you
             freelie
             and
             plainlie
             tell
             vs
             what
             your
             churche
             meaneth
             by
             traditions
             ;
             not
             interpretation
             of
             that
             which
             is
             written
             ,
             but
             addition
             and
             suppliment
             of
             that
             which
             is
             not
             .
             For
             moe
             thinges
             say
             you
             ,
             are
             to
             be
             beleeued
             and
             obserued
             then
             either
             the
             Apostles
             wrote
             or
             founde
             written
             ,
             and
             these
             are
             traditions
             .
             Let
             the
             reader
             marke
             this
             ;
             for
             the
             question
             here
             betwixt
             vs
             ,
             is
             not
             of
             interpretation
             of
             scriptures
             ,
             nor
             of
             rites
             and
             ceremonies
             ,
             that
             haue
             correspondence
             with
             them
             ,
             which
             here
             he
             carrieth
             vnder
             the
             name
             of
             thinges
             to
             be
             obserued
             ,
             but
             of
             doctrines
             and
             matters
             
             of
             faith
             ,
             which
             are
             thinges
             to
             be
             beleeued
             all
             which
             (
             saith
             he
             )
             were
             neuer
             written
             in
             the
             old
             testament
             ,
             nor
             yet
             in
             the
             newe
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               putt
               me
               in
               minde
               of
               the
               fable
               of
               the
               fox
               that
               hauinge
               lost
               his
               owne
               tayle
               ,
               would
               needes
               perswade
               his
               fellowes
               to
               cutt
               of
               theires
               .
               So
               you
               beinge
               out
               of
               loue
               with
               traditions
               ,
               woulde
               perswade
               vs
               to
               reiect
               them
               also
               .
               But
               we
               are
               not
               so
               soone
               moued
               ,
               we
               professe
               to
               beleeue
               diuerse
               things
               for
               traditions
               sake
               ,
               and
               that
               by
               warrant
               of
               scripture
               .
               whereunto
               if
               you
               did
               geue
               so
               much
               creditt
               as
               you
               would
               be
               thought
               to
               doe
               ,
               you
               woulde
               also
               beleeue
               the
               same
               .
               And
               seing
               you
               yeeld
               alreadie
               the
               one
               halfe
               of
               the
               controuersie
               ,
               to
               witt
               traditions
               of
               thinges
               to
               be
               obserued
               (
               for
               of
               these
               thinges
               you
               say
               there
               is
               no
               question
               betweene
               vs
               )
               I
               will
               not
               dispaire
               to
               euict
               the
               other
               part
               ,
               of
               thinges
               also
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ,
               from
               you
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Nowe
               this
               is
               a
               manifest
               vntruth
               .
               For
               there
               is
               not
               anie
               article
               of
               faith
               ,
               which
               the
               Apostles
               founde
               not
               in
               the
               scriptures
               of
               the
               prophetts
               ,
               nor
               which
               either
               the
               euangelists
               or
               themselues
               ,
               did
               not
               consigne
               vnto
               vs
               in
               theire
               writings
               ,
               which
               thinge
               any
               man
               may
               finde
               to
               be
               true
               ,
               that
               will
               take
               paines
               to
               consider
               the
               articles
               of
               the
               Apostolike
               creede
               ,
               one
               by
               one
               ,
               which
               either
               haue
               proofe
               out
               of
               the
               ould
               testament
               ,
               or
               else
               the
               Apostles
               did
               not
               double
               all
               theire
               doctrines
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               .
               Contrary
               to
               S.
               Paules
               practise
               ,
               acts
               .
            
             26.
             22.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Howe
               manifest
               an
               vntruth
               it
               is
               that
               the
               Apostles
               taught
               more
               then
               either
               they
               found
               written
               or
               wrot
               themselues
               ,
               we
               shall
               see
               ,
               in
               the
               processe
               of
               this
               controuersie
               .
               In
               the
               meane
               while
               I
               tell
               you
               that
               you
               affirme
               
               boldlie
               but
               prooue
               nothinge
               .
               And
               why
               doe
               you
               referr
               vs
               to
               the
               Apostles
               creede
               for
               proofe
               of
               your
               vniuersall
               affirmation
               ?
               Is
               nothinge
               to
               be
               beleeued
               but
               that
               which
               is
               therein
               contayned
               ?
               what
               find
               you
               (
               I
               pray
               you
               )
               in
               the
               creede
               touchinge
               either
               the
               number
               or
               the
               nature
               of
               the
               Sacraments
               ,
               of
               theire
               efficacie
               or
               necessitie
               ,
               of
               originall
               sinne
               ,
               of
               the
               fall
               of
               the
               Angells
               ,
               with
               manie
               moe
               articles
               beleeued
               by
               all
               christians
               ?
               And
               yett
               you
               confirme
               your
               proofe
               farr
               more
               absurdlie
               ,
               by
               supposinge
               that
               the
               Apostles
               doubled
               (
               that
               is
               your
               worde
               where
               you
               learned
               it
               I
               knowe
               not
               )
               al
               theire
               doctrine
               out
               of
               scripture
               :
               which
               is
               the
               thinge
               in
               question
               and
               therefore
               most
               absurdlie
               brought
               for
               proofe
               of
               the
               same
               .
               Againe
               what
               necessitie
               had
               the
               Apostles
               to
               double
               theire
               doctrine
               (
               as
               you
               say
               )
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ?
               Hadd
               they
               not
               authoritie
               to
               preach
               anie
               thinge
               but
               what
               they
               founde
               alreadie
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ?
               What
               Christian
               euer
               dreamed
               of
               such
               doctrine
               as
               you
               haue
               deliuered
               here
               ?
               But
               this
               was
               S.
               Paules
               practise
               you
               say
               .
               But
               you
               are
               either
               ignorantlie
               or
               wilfullie
               mistakē
               and
               that
               most
               grosselie
               .
               For
               thoughe
               S.
               Paule
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Apostles
               preached
               nothinge
               contrarie
               to
               the
               doctrine
               of
               the
               old
               testament
               ,
               but
               contrariwise
               shewed
               howe
               the
               auncient
               prophecies
               were
               fulfilled
               by
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               (
               which
               S.
               Paules
               auditours
               at
               Boerea
               findinge
               ,
               by
               conferinge
               his
               doctrine
               with
               the
               prophets
               ,
               were
               much
               confirmed
               in
               theire
               faith
               )
               yett
               is
               it
               noe
               where
               sayd
               ,
               that
               either
               he
               or
               the
               rest
               preached
               nothinge
               but
               that
               they
               founde
               written
               .
               Neither
               did
               this
               paradoxe
               euer
               enter
               into
               anie
               mans
               heade
               but
               Mr.
               Pilkintons
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Reade
             saith
             Ireneus
             diligentlie
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             which
             the
             Apostles
             haue
             geuen
             vs
             ,
             and
             read
             also
             diligentlie
             the
             prophetts
             ,
             and
             you
             shall
             finde
             all
             the
             actions
             and
             passions
             of
             our
             lorde
             ,
             yea
             all
             his
             doctrine
             for
             to
             be
             preached
             ,
             your
             proofes
             
             haue
             as
             much
             truth
             as
             the
             Carthaginians
             faith
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               S.
               Ireneus
               saith
               no
               more
               but
               that
               there
               is
               a
               great
               and
               manifest
               conformitie
               or
               agreement
               ,
               betweene
               the
               Prophetts
               and
               Apostles
               preachinge
               and
               doctrine
               ,
               which
               as
               it
               is
               most
               true
               ,
               so
               is
               it
               as
               much
               to
               your
               purpose
               as
               Paules
               steeple
               is
               to
               Charinge
               Crosse
               .
               And
               whether
               my
               proofes
               or
               yours
               haue
               more
               affinitie
               with
               the
               Carthaginian
               faith
               ,
               lett
               the
               indifferent
               reader
               iudge
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             MANVALL
             .
             
               Proofe
               of
               the
               catholike
               position
            
             .
             1.
             
          
        
         
           Hauinge
           moe
           thinges
           to
           write
           vnto
           
           you
           ,
           I
           woulde
           not
           by
           paper
           and
           Inke
           ;
           For
           I
           hope
           I
           shall
           be
           with
           you
           ,
           and
           speake
           mouth
           to
           mouth
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             These
             well
             conclude
             ,
             that
             in
             this
             shorte
             Epistle
             S.
             Iohn
             did
             not
             write
             all
             the
             poyntes
             of
             faith
             ,
             but
             that
             others
             of
             the
             Apostles
             did
             not
             write
             them
             he
             saith
             not
             a
             word
             .
             What
             loose
             reasoninge
             is
             this
             ?
             S.
             Iohn
             did
             not
             write
             all
             in
             these
             Epistles
             ,
             therefore
             the
             rest
             did
             not
             ;
             For
             whatsoeuer
             is
             necessarie
             vnto
             saluation
             ,
             and
             of
             faith
             though
             there
             it
             be
             not
             to
             be
             found
             ,
             yet
             in
             the
             writings
             of
             the
             other
             Apostles
             it
             is
             to
             be
             read
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Seeinge
               I
               haue
               by
               your
               confession
               prooued
               out
               of
               the
               scripture
               ,
               that
               this
               Apostle
               taught
               moe
               thinges
               by
               worde
               o●
               mouth
               then
               he
               wrote
               (
               which
               was
               my
               Position
               )
               it
               nowe
               belongeth
               to
               you
               ,
               either
               to
               graunt
               my
               position
               to
               be
               true
               ,
               or
               to
               prooue
               by
               scriptures
               that
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Apostles
               wrote
               that
               which
               he
               
               taught
               by
               worde
               of
               mouth
               ,
               and
               omitted
               to
               write
               :
               For
               to
               say
               it
               only
               without
               proofe
               ,
               yea
               and
               such
               as
               you
               require
               of
               your
               aduersarie
               is
               to
               make
               your
               owne
               affirmation
               à
               lawe
               and
               rule
               of
               your
               faith
               .
               Which
               though
               it
               appeareth
               well
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               to
               your selfe
               ,
               yett
               will
               it
               not
               be
               admitted
               of
               others
               .
               And
               if
               I
               should
               here
               againe
               presse
               you
               with
               your
               owne
               rule
               ;
               
                 non
                 eredimus
                 quia
                 non
                 ●eg●nous
              
               ;
               you
               would
               find
               ei
               〈…〉
               your
               rule
               too
               strickt
               ,
               or
               your
               assertion
               here
               (
               that
               the
               other
               Apostles
               committed
               to
               writinge
               ,
               that
               which
               S.
               Iohn
               taughte
               by
               worde
               and
               omitted
               to
               write
               )
               to
               be
               false
               .
               Choose
               whether
               parte
               you
               will.
               You
               see
               therfore
               that
               my
               reasoninge
               was
               not
               loose
               ,
               but
               that
               your
               iudgment
               thereon
               was
               light
               .
            
             
               Your
               reason
               followinge
               ,
               is
               a
               miserable
               begginge
               of
               that
               which
               is
               in
               question
               ,
               and
               which
               you
               should
               prooue
               ,
               and
               is
               more
               easilie
               and
               trulie
               denyed
               then
               affirmed
               .
               And
               for
               your
               better
               instruction
               I
               wish
               you
               to
               marke
               a
               litle
               more
               diligentlie
               the
               wordes
               of
               the
               Apostle
               ,
               and
               you
               will
               (
               as
               I
               suppose
               )
               perceiue
               the
               argument
               to
               be
               of
               more
               force
               then
               you
               tooke
               it
               to
               be
               of
               ,
               vnles
               you
               dissembled
               .
               For
               he
               giuinge
               the
               reason
               why
               he
               would
               not
               vse
               paper
               and
               inke
               ,
               to
               make
               knowne
               vnto
               them
               to
               whome
               he
               wrote
               those
               thinges
               which
               he
               had
               to
               teache
               them
               ,
               he
               saith
               not
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               for
               that
               either
               he
               himselfe
               or
               anie
               of
               the
               other
               Apostles
               had
               or
               woulde
               sett
               them
               downe
               in
               writinge
               ,
               but
               because
               he
               hoped
               to
               be
               with
               them
               ,
               and
               to
               speake
               vnto
               them
               mouth
               to
               mouth
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             Proofe
             2.
             
          
        
         
           And
           the
           rest
           I
           will
           dispose
           when
           I
           come
           .
           Where
           the
           Apostle
           euidently
           sheweth
           ,
           that
           he
           reserued
           something
           more
           to
           be
           ordayneth
           by
           worde
           then
           he
           wrote
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             This
             is
             litle
             to
             the
             purpose
             ,
             for
             the
             Apostle
             doth
             not
             there
             speake
             of
             matters
             of
             faith
             ,
             which
             
             is
             our
             question
             ,
             but
             of
             such
             things
             as
             belonge
             to
             order
             and
             comelines
             ,
             as
             it
             is
             playne
             by
             the
             word
             in
             greeke
             which
             properlie
             signifieth
             orderinge
             of
             rites
             ,
             and
             matters
             of
             decencie
             ,
             not
             teachinge
             of
             doctrines
             and
             matters
             of
             faith
             ,
             as
             appeareth
             〈◊〉
             the
             same
             epist
             :
             cap.
             16.
             1.
             concerninge
             the
             ga●●●●inge
             for
             the
             Saincts
             ,
             as
             I
             haue
             geuen
             order
             to
             the
             churches
             of
             Galatia
             ,
             euen
             so
             doe
             yee
             .
             The
             
             rest
             saith
             Aquinas
             ,
             videlicet
             these
             thinges
             that
             are
             not
             of
             such
             danger
             will
             I
             dispose
             of
             when
             I
             come
             ,
             howe
             you
             shall
             obserue
             them
             .
             But
             lett
             it
             be
             graunted
             that
             he
             meaneth
             doctrines
             and
             matters
             of
             faith
             ,
             it
             is
             an
             inference
             without
             coherence
             ,
             that
             because
             he
             writte
             them
             not
             then
             ,
             therefore
             he
             did
             omitte
             them
             for
             euer
             ,
             or
             because
             he
             wrot
             them
             not
             ,
             therefore
             the
             rest
             were
             silent
             and
             writte
             them
             not
             .
             When
             you
             consider
             of
             these
             consequences
             ,
             then
             you
             may
             see
             that
             it
             is
             as
             farr
             from
             your
             purpose
             as
             Gades
             is
             from
             Ganges
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               second
               answere
               to
               this
               testimonie
               is
               effectuallie
               frustrated
               in
               my
               reply
               to
               your
               answere
               of
               the
               precedent
               testimonie
               ,
               and
               therefore
               needeth
               no
               further
               confutation
               .
               Your
               former
               answere
               (
               admittinge
               it
               in
               your
               owne
               sence
               )
               doth
               expresselie
               graunt
               traditions
               in
               matters
               to
               be
               obserued
               ,
               and
               practised
               in
               the
               churche
               ,
               which
               seeinge
               they
               concerne
               the
               vse
               of
               the
               Sacraments
               ,
               and
               other
               holy
               obseruations
               to
               be
               kept
               by
               all
               Christians
               established
               and
               ordayned
               by
               the
               Apostles
               by
               the
               expresse
               commaundement
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               .
               Matt.
               28.
               20.
               
               I
               would
               knowe
               of
               you
               some
               reason
               why
               you
               deny
               the
               authoritie
               of
               traditions
               in
               thinges
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ,
               and
               graunt
               them
               in
               matters
               to
               be
               donne
               and
               obserued
               ,
               will
               you
               say
               that
               they
               are
               more
               fallible
               in
               the
               one
               ,
               then
               in
               the
               other
               ?
               
               To
               say
               this
               onlie
               without
               some
               ground
               or
               reason
               ,
               will
               haue
               small
               grace
               or
               force
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             .
             Proofe
             3.
             
          
        
         
           The
           Apostles
           were
           commanded
           to
           teache
           all
           nations
           to
           obserue
           all
           thinges
           which
           our
           Sauiour
           had
           commāded
           .
           Which
           doubtles
           they
           fulfilled
           ,
           but
           they
           were
           not
           commanded
           in
           anie
           place
           to
           write
           all
           the
           same
           :
           neither
           doth
           it
           appeare
           by
           anie
           scripture
           that
           they
           did
           write
           all
           thinges
           which
           they
           taught
           men
           to
           beleeue
           and
           obserue
           .
           This
           is
           a
           demonstration
           that
           they
           taught
           more
           then
           they
           wrote
           ,
           if
           nothinge
           be
           to
           beleeued
           but
           that
           which
           is
           contayned
           in
           holy
           scripture
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             That
             Christe
             charged
             the
             Apostles
             to
             teach
             all
             nations
             whatsoeuer
             he
             commanded
             ,
             which
             they
             fulfilled
             also
             ,
             but
             he
             charged
             them
             no
             where
             to
             
             write
             all
             ;
             The
             fathers
             shall
             answere
             .
             We
             knowe
             not
             the
             dispensinge
             of
             our
             saluation
             ,
             from
             anie
             where
             ,
             then
             from
             them
             by
             whome
             the
             gospell
             came
             to
             vs
             ,
             which
             then
             they
             preached
             ,
             and
             after
             by
             the
             will
             of
             God
             deliuered
             vnto
             vs
             in
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             to
             be
             the
             foundation
             and
             piller
             of
             our
             
             saith
             .
             S.
             Aug.
             saith
             ,
             that
             when
             the
             Euangelists
             and
             Apostles
             did
             write
             what
             God
             shewed
             and
             sayd
             ,
             we
             may
             not
             say
             that
             he
             writte
             it
             not
             ;
             for
             whatsoeuer
             he
             would
             haue
             vs
             to
             read
             either
             cōcerninge
             his
             wordes
             or
             workes
             ,
             he
             commandeth
             them
             as
             his
             owne
             hands
             to
             write
             it
             .
             If
             what
             the
             Apostles
             preached
             after
             they
             writte
             as
             Ireneus
             
             saith
             ;
             If
             what
             God
             commaunded
             them
             so
             to
             doe
             ,
             as
             S.
             August
             .
             auoucheth
             .
             Then
             it
             plainlie
             followeth
             ,
             that
             they
             writte
             as
             much
             as
             they
             preached
             ,
             and
             that
             not
             onlie
             by
             the
             allowance
             ,
             but
             by
             the
             commandment
             of
             our
             Sauiour
             Christ
             .
             For
             they
             writte
             nothinge
             but
             that
             with
             which
             they
             
             were
             inspired
             .
             Nowe
             inspiration
             is
             a
             commandement
             ,
             as
             Bellarmine
             confesseth
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Stande
               to
               your
               grounde
               and
               doe
               not
               flinche
               from
               it
               ,
               you
               say
               nothinge
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               but
               that
               which
               is
               written
               .
               If
               you
               will
               therefore
               that
               it
               should
               be
               beleeued
               that
               the
               Apostles
               wrot
               all
               things
               they
               taught
               ,
               shewe
               it
               written
               ,
               or
               acknowledge
               your
               ground
               to
               be
               false
               .
               The
               scripture
               testifieth
               that
               the
               Aposties
               were
               commanded
               to
               teach
               all
               thinges
               necessarie
               to
               be
               obserued
               ,
               but
               that
               they
               were
               commaunded
               to
               write
               the
               same
               ,
               it
               no
               where
               appeareth
               .
               If
               therefore
               they
               did
               it
               ,
               either
               they
               did
               it
               by
               Christs
               commaundement
               ,
               and
               then
               you
               must
               needes
               confesse
               something
               necessarie
               to
               be
               beleeued
               more
               then
               is
               written
               ;
               for
               it
               is
               no
               where
               written
               that
               he
               commaunded
               them
               to
               write
               all
               thinges
               they
               taught
               .
               Or
               they
               did
               it
               without
               his
               commaundement
               .
               And
               then
               it
               was
               not
               necessarie
               they
               shoulde
               doe
               it
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               was
               it
               not
               necessarie
               there
               should
               be
               anie
               thinge
               written
               at
               all
               in
               the
               newe
               testament
               .
               And
               thoughe
               they
               writte
               nothinge
               but
               that
               was
               inspired
               into
               them
               ,
               yea
               &
               that
               they
               were
               inspired
               to
               write
               ,
               both
               which
               thinges
               you
               beleeue
               ,
               thoughe
               you
               finde
               neither
               of
               them
               written
               ,
               yett
               it
               no
               where
               appeareth
               ,
               that
               they
               were
               inspired
               to
               write
               all
               they
               had
               by
               inspiration
               .
               You
               say
               the
               fathers
               shall
               answere
               for
               you
               ;
               but
               I
               receiue
               not
               theire
               answere
               as
               sufficient
               ,
               vnles
               you
               will
               stande
               to
               the
               fathers
               testimonie
               in
               all
               other
               points
               .
               You
               promised
               scripture
               for
               all
               your
               positions
               ,
               performe
               therefore
               your
               promise
               ,
               or
               confesse
               your
               position
               
               of
               beleeuinge
               nothinge
               but
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               to
               be
               false
               .
            
             
               Notwithstandinge
               because
               the
               testimonie
               of
               the
               fathers
               is
               venerable
               with
               me
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               refuse
               it
               if
               they
               say
               anie
               thinge
               for
               you
               .
               But
               neither
               of
               the
               fathers
               cited
               by
               you
               saith
               ,
               that
               the
               Apostles
               wrote
               all
               they
               preached
               ,
               which
               is
               our
               issue
               heere
               .
               And
               as
               fo●
               the
               former
               to
               witt
               S.
               Ireneus
               ,
               you
               haue
               his
               plaine
               meaninge
               layd
               downe
               vnto
               you
               before
               in
               the
               beginninge
               of
               our
               dispute
               ,
               to
               witt
               ,
               in
               the
               answere
               to
               your
               second
               Antithesis
               which
               you
               frame
               out
               of
               these
               selfe
               same
               wordes
               of
               S.
               Ireneus
               .
               And
               as
               for
               S.
               Aug.
               he
               saith
               not
               that
               Christ
               commanded
               to
               bee
               written
               whatsoeuer
               he
               woulde
               haue
               vs
               to
               beleeue
               of
               him
               ,
               or
               his
               workes
               ,
               but
               onlie
               whatsoeuer
               he
               woulde
               haue
               vs
               to
               reade
               ;
               Which
               is
               most
               true
               .
               For
               he
               could
               not
               will
               that
               we
               shoulde
               read
               anie
               thinge
               but
               that
               which
               was
               written
               .
               But
               lett
               vs
               yeelde
               yett
               further
               vnto
               you
               ,
               and
               suppose
               these
               fathers
               to
               say
               as
               much
               for
               your
               purpose
               as
               you
               would
               haue
               (
               which
               you
               see
               is
               farr
               otherwise
               )
               yett
               woulde
               I
               aske
               ,
               you
               where
               they
               had
               that
               doctrine
               ?
               not
               from
               the
               scripture
               ,
               for
               no
               such
               thinge
               appeareth
               therein
               .
               If
               therefore
               you
               will
               admitte
               of
               theire
               doctrine
               ,
               though
               not
               taken
               out
               of
               the
               scripture
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               professe
               that
               nothinge
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ,
               but
               that
               which
               is
               written
               and
               contayned
               in
               the
               scripture
               .
               And
               thus
               you
               see
               your selfe
               so
               inuolued
               with
               your
               doctrine
               ,
               that
               you
               can
               finde
               noe
               way
               to
               escape
               some
               manifest
               absurditie
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             .
             Proofe
             4.
             
          
        
         
           They
           (
           the
           Apostles
           )
           taught
           baptisme
           giuen
           to
           infants
           to
           be
           good
           and
           lawfull
           ,
           or
           else
           the
           Anabaptists
           are
           not
           heretikes
           for
           rebaptisinge
           them
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             
          
           
             The
             Baptisme
             of
             infants
             may
             by
             good
             and
             necessarie
             consequence
             be
             deriued
             from
             the
             scriptures
             
             otherwise
             your
             friend
             Bellarmine
             hath
             brought
             chaffie
             arguments
             against
             the
             Anabaptists
             .
             The
             first
             is
             from
             the
             figure
             of
             the
             olde
             testament
             ,
             children
             were
             circumcised
             ,
             therefore
             they
             ought
             to
             be
             baptised
             :
             this
             is
             so
             stronge
             saith
             he
             that
             it
             cannot
             be
             eluded
             .
             The
             second
             is
             taken
             out
             of
             the
             thirde
             of
             Iohn
             .
             Except
             a
             man
             be
             borne
             againe
             of
             water
             and
             the
             holy
             Ghost
             ,
             he
             cannot
             enter
             into
             the
             kingdome
             of
             heauen
             .
             Whereunto
             may
             be
             added
             Christs
             commaundment
             Matt.
             19.
             14.
             
             Suffer
             little
             children
             to
             come
             vnto
             me
             ,
             for
             of
             such
             is
             the
             kingdome
             of
             heauen
             .
             And
             in
             howe
             manie
             places
             doth
             S.
             Aug.
             prooue
             from
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             the
             necessitie
             of
             Baptisme
             against
             the
             Pelagians
             ,
             who
             imagininge
             children
             to
             be
             without
             original
             sinne
             ,
             thought
             it
             vnnecessarie
             ;
             wheras
             he
             sheweth
             out
             of
             Iohn
             that
             without
             it
             originall
             sinne
             is
             not
             remitted
             ,
             and
             therefore
             if
             it
             be
             needfull
             certainlie
             it
             is
             lawfull
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               arguments
               vsed
               by
               Bellarmine
               are
               not
               chaffie
               but
               substantially
               good
               ,
               because
               they
               are
               taken
               from
               the
               scripture
               interpreted
               by
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               and
               the
               canonicall
               practise
               thereof
               ,
               receiued
               from
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               which
               is
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               the
               Anabaptists
               to
               be
               heretike
               denyinge
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               infants
               to
               be
               lawfull
               .
               And
               seeing
               you
               confesse
               the
               testimonie
               of
               the
               3.
               of
               S.
               Iohn
               to
               be
               so
               effectuall
               to
               prooue
               the
               lawfulnes
               of
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               infants
               ,
               you
               must
               likwise
               confesse
               Caluin
               and
               all
               his
               followers
               to
               be
               heretikes
               .
               For
               he
               denyeth
               the
               necessity
               of
               Baptisme
               to
               saluation
               which
               is
               much
               more
               clearlie
               prooued
               out
               of
               that
               place
               ,
               then
               is
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               infants
               .
               And
               so
               whilst
               you
               woulde
               auoyde
               one
               euill
               you
               fall
               into
               a
               worse
               .
               The
               same
               inconuenience
               
               followeth
               against
               you
               vppon
               the
               argument
               of
               S.
               August
               .
               For
               if
               he
               prooue
               rightlie
               against
               the
               Pelagians
               that
               Baptisme
               is
               necessarie
               ;
               he
               concludeth
               directlie
               against
               your
               Master
               Caluin
               .
               Yea
               against
               the
               doctrine
               deliuered
               in
               the
               first
               dayes
               conference
               of
               Hampton
               Courte
               .
               Read
               it
               and
               see
               whether
               I
               say
               not
               true
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             Proofe
             6.
             
          
        
         
           They
           (
           the
           Apostles
           )
           taught
           the
           sunday
           to
           be
           solemnised
           and
           the
           Iewes
           Sabboth
           to
           be
           lefte
           without
           all
           solemnitie
           .
           Thoughe
           moste
           strictly
           commaunded
           by
           God
           to
           be
           solemnised
           as
           an
           euerlastinge
           Couenant
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             The
             obseruation
             of
             the
             sunday
             and
             alteration
             from
             the
             Iewishe
             Sabboth
             we
             finde
             written
             in
             the
             scriptures
             .
             For
             Iohn
             tearmeth
             it
             the
             Lordes
             day
             ;
             not
             onlie
             for
             that
             it
             was
             consecrated
             to
             his
             publike
             seruice
             ,
             but
             for
             that
             he
             was
             the
             instituter
             
             and
             ordayner
             thereof
             ,
             as
             S.
             Aug
             :
             speaketh
             .
             It
             was
             prefigured
             in
             the
             eight
             day
             wherein
             the
             Iewes
             vsed
             circumcision
             as
             both
             the
             same
             father
             ,
             and
             Chrisost
             :
             teach
             ;
             and
             if
             prefigured
             then
             prescribed
             .
             In
             this
             day
             did
             the
             Apostles
             come
             together
             acts
             .
             20.
             7.
             and
             accordinglie
             they
             taught
             the
             churche
             to
             obserue
             it
             ,
             not
             by
             voyce
             onlie
             ,
             but
             by
             writinge
             1.
             cor
             .
             16.
             2.
             
             Euerie
             first
             day
             of
             the
             weeke
             lett
             euerie
             one
             of
             you
             put
             a
             side
             by
             himselfe
             ,
             and
             though
             it
             were
             commaunded
             by
             God
             to
             be
             obserued
             as
             an
             euerlastinge
             couenant
             ,
             yett
             who
             is
             so
             meanlie
             skilled
             in
             the
             Hebrue
             ,
             that
             knoweth
             not
             Gnolam
             ,
             sometymes
             to
             signifie
             eternitie
             ,
             sometimes
             a
             definit
             tyme
             ,
             as
             to
             the
             Iubilee
             ,
             Exad
             ▪
             21
             ▪
             6
             ▪
             then
             his
             master
             will
             bringe
             
             him
             vnto
             the
             iudges
             ,
             and
             sett
             him
             to
             the
             dore
             ,
             or
             the
             poste
             ,
             and
             his
             maister
             shall
             bore
             his
             eare
             throughe
             with
             an
             awle
             ,
             and
             he
             shall
             serue
             him
             for
             euer
             ,
             and
             as
             the
             passeouer
             was
             tearmed
             Exo
             :
             12.
             14.
             an
             euerlastinge
             ordinance
             ,
             which
             yett
             was
             but
             to
             continue
             till
             the
             fulnes
             of
             tyme.
             So
             the
             Sabboth
             is
             tearmed
             an
             euerlasting
             couenant
             ,
             which
             yett
             for
             the
             day
             was
             onlie
             vnder
             the
             state
             of
             the
             olde
             testament
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Here
               you
               exceede
               your selfe
               in
               impertinencie
               and
               wilfull
               obstinacie
               .
               If
               I
               should
               haue
               brought
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               for
               traditions
               such
               proofes
               as
               you
               doe
               to
               ouerthrowe
               them
               ,
               you
               would
               make
               sporte
               therat
               ,
               and
               worthelie
               ,
               saying
               they
               were
               not
               onlie
               loose
               arguinge
               ,
               but
               verie
               seelie
               Sophistrie
               ,
               S.
               Iohn
               tearmeth
               one
               day
               ,
               the
               Lordes
               day
               ,
               ergo
               say
               you
               the
               scripture
               testifieth
               the
               abrogation
               of
               the
               Iewes
               Sabboth
               ,
               and
               establishment
               of
               the
               sunday
               ,
               and
               that
               fully
               ,
               for
               of
               full
               proofe
               and
               testimonie
               wee
               here
               dispute
               .
               Againe
               the
               Apostle
               willed
               the
               Corrinthians
               euerie
               first
               day
               of
               the
               weeke
               to
               lay
               a
               side
               by
               themselues
               &c.
               
               Ergo
               say
               you
               the
               Apostle
               did
               not
               onlie
               teach
               by
               voice
               ,
               but
               by
               writinge
               also
               the
               obseruation
               of
               the
               christians
               sunday
               insteede
               of
               the
               Iewishe
               Sabboth
               .
               These
               are
               your
               best
               and
               strongest
               arguments
               in
               this
               matter
               ,
               which
               if
               you
               trulie
               thinke
               to
               be
               fully
               sufficient
               of
               themselues
               ,
               to
               prooue
               that
               you
               desire
               ;
               with
               what
               face
               or
               conscience
               can
               you
               reiect
               the
               proofes
               of
               expresse
               scripture
               and
               cleare
               instances
               brought
               for
               the
               catholike
               position
               ,
               as
               not
               sufficient
               to
               prooue
               the
               same
               ?
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             Proofe
             6.
             
          
        
         
           They
           deliuered
           and
           taught
           the
           creede
           by
           worde
           of
           mouthe
           and
           not
           in
           writinge
           ,
           which
           from
           theire
           tyme
           till
           nowe
           hath
           cōtinued
           in
           the
           churche
           by
           tradition
           onlie
           .
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               creede
               we
               confesse
               the
               Apostles
               taught
               ,
               and
               finde
               euerie
               parcell
               and
               portion
               thereof
               in
               theire
               writings
               ,
               which
               if
               you
               denie
               we
               can
               quickelie
               make
               good
               .
               S.
               Aug.
               telleth
               vs
               so
               much
               .
            
             
             
               These
               wordes
               which
               you
               haue
               hearde
               (
               he
               speaketh
               of
               the
               Simboll
               )
               are
               scattered
               in
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ;
               from
               them
               collected
               and
               reduced
               into
               one
               ,
               to
               helpe
               the
               memorie
               of
               dull
               men
               .
               But
               here
               you
               delude
               your
               reader
               againe
               with
               a
               triflinge
               Homonomie
               of
               this
               worde
               creede
               .
               For
               if
               thereby
               you
               meane
               wordes
               and
               sillables
               ,
               then
               it
               is
               true
               ,
               that
               the
               Apostles
               vse
               not
               in
               theire
               writings
               ,
               some
               wordes
               expressed
               in
               the
               creede
               ,
               neither
               is
               it
               necessarie
               to
               beleeue
               that
               they
               wrote
               the
               wordes
               thereof
               ,
               and
               then
               it
               is
               not
               to
               the
               purpose
               to
               proue
               your
               positiō
               ,
               which
               is
               of
               thinges
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ,
               and
               not
               of
               wordes
               .
               But
               if
               by
               the
               creede
               you
               vnderstande
               the
               matter
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               thinges
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ,
               then
               it
               is
               vntrue
               that
               the
               Apostles
               writte
               it
               not
               ,
               and
               all
               thinges
               contayned
               therein
               ;
               which
               thinges
               haue
               continued
               in
               our
               churche
               as
               the
               obiect
               of
               our
               faith
               ,
               not
               for
               tradition
               onlie
               ,
               as
               you
               ignorantly
               say
               ,
               but
               because
               they
               are
               recorded
               in
               the
               holy
               scripture
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Shewe
               me
               then
               in
               theire
               writings
               ,
               I
               meane
               the
               Apostles
               ,
               the
               discention
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               into
               hell
               ;
               and
               the
               catholicke
               churche
               ,
               which
               Luther
               loued
               so
               little
               ,
               that
               he
               turned
               it
               the
               christian
               churche
               .
               Thoughe
               we
               beleeue
               not
               onlie
               the
               parcells
               of
               the
               creede
               ,
               but
               the
               whole
               creede
               together
               .
               And
               that
               the
               Apostles
               made
               it
               ,
               which
               is
               no
               where
               expressed
               in
               scripture
               .
               And
               if
               I
               say
               ignorantlie
               that
               the
               creede
               as
               it
               is
               composed
               by
               
               the
               Apostles
               and
               therefore
               receiued
               and
               beleeued
               of
               all
               christians
               in
               al
               ages
               ,
               hath
               continued
               in
               the
               church
               vntill
               this
               day
               by
               tradition
               only
               ;
               shewe
               it
               me
               written
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               confesse
               myne
               ignorance
               ,
               and
               correct
               my
               wordes
               .
               But
               seeinge
               you
               cannot
               performe
               that
               ,
               I
               tell
               you
               ,
               that
               you
               impudentlie
               affirme
               that
               it
               hath
               other
               continuance
               then
               by
               tradition
               ,
               opposinge
               tradition
               to
               the
               canonicall
               scripture
               onlie
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             .
             Proofe
             7.
             
          
        
         
           They
           taught
           Baptisme
           administred
           by
           heretikes
           to
           be
           good
           ;
           and
           therefore
           S.
           Aug.
           speakinge
           thereof
           saith
           .
           
             Manie
             thinges
             which
          
           
           
             are
             not
             found
             in
             the
             Apostles
             writinges
             nor
             in
             the
             latter
             councells
             ,
             yet
             because
             they
             are
             obserued
             by
             the
             whole
             churche
             ,
             are
             beleeued
             to
             be
             deliuered
             and
             recommended
             by
             none
             but
             by
             thē
             .
             Againe
             he
             saith
             .
             There
             are
             manie
             thinges
             which
             the
             whole
             church
             doth
             hold
             ,
             and
             therefore
             are
             well
             beleeued
             to
             be
             commaunded
             by
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             albeyt
             they
             be
             not
             found
             written
             .
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             That
             Baptisme
             ministred
             by
             heretikes
             ,
             was
             preached
             by
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             but
             not
             written
             ,
             hath
             as
             much
             truth
             as
             the
             rest
             .
             For
             whereas
             Cyprian
             hath
             taught
             ,
             that
             Baptisme
             of
             heretikes
             was
             not
             good
             ,
             and
             therefore
             to
             be
             reiterated
             ,
             S.
             Aug.
             crosseth
             him
             and
             prooueth
             the
             contrarie
             out
             of
             the
             ghospell
             ,
             and
             out
             of
             the
             wordes
             of
             the
             Apostle
             Ephe.
             4.
             
             And
             this
             is
             so
             frequent
             with
             that
             father
             ,
             that
             it
             maketh
             me
             thinke
             you
             haue
             not
             read
             him
             of
             that
             argument
             ,
             but
             gleaned
             out
             of
             others
             that
             might
             serue
             your
             turne
             .
             So
             p●lpably
             
             are
             you
             deceiued
             to
             thinke
             that
             S.
             August
             :
             conceiued
             this
             to
             be
             an
             vnwritten
             tradition
             without
             ground
             of
             scripture
             ,
             for
             thus
             he
             writeth
             .
             (
             That
             I
             may
             not
             seeme
             to
             prooue
             it
             by
             humane
             arguments
             ,
             I
             will
             bringe
             foorth
             certayne
             documents
             out
             of
             the
             scripture
             )
             .
             And
             whereas
             Cyprian
             had
             taught
             ,
             that
             for
             proofe
             of
             this
             we
             must
             haue
             recourse
             vnto
             the
             fountayne
             of
             Apostolicall
             tradition
             ,
             that
             is
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             S.
             Aug
             :
             approoueth
             it
             ,
             and
             saith
             that
             the
             Apostles
             deliuered
             ,
             that
             there
             is
             one
             God
             ,
             one
             Christe
             ,
             one
             baptisme
             ,
             and
             therefore
             baptisme
             of
             heretikes
             is
             firme
             ,
             and
             not
             to
             be
             repeated
             .
             When
             then
             he
             saith
             of
             this
             as
             of
             other
             thinges
             ,
             that
             they
             are
             not
             founde
             in
             the
             Apostles
             writinges
             ,
             nor
             in
             latter
             councells
             &c.
             
             And
             there
             be
             manie
             thinges
             which
             the
             whole
             churche
             doth
             holde
             ,
             and
             therfore
             are
             well
             beleeued
             to
             be
             commended
             by
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             albeyt
             they
             be
             not
             found
             written
             .
             Which
             wordes
             are
             in
             his
             2.
             booke
             
               contra
               Donatistas
               
               cap.
               7.
            
             
             and
             not
             
               lib.
               5.
               cap.
               27.
            
             as
             you
             cited
             them
             .
             His
             meaninge
             is
             they
             are
             not
             written
             in
             so
             manie
             wordes
             ,
             but
             the
             groundes
             of
             them
             are
             layd
             in
             the
             scriptures
             and
             thence
             necessarilie
             they
             may
             be
             concluded
             .
             This
             is
             playne
             out
             of
             Aug.
             for
             hauinge
             vttered
             these
             wordes
             vrged
             by
             you
             ,
             when
             he
             draweth
             to
             an
             ende
             of
             this
             disputation
             ,
             he
             thus
             concludeth
             .
             It
             might
             suffice
             that
             our
             reasons
             beinge
             so
             often
             repeated
             and
             diuerselie
             debated
             and
             handled
             in
             disputinge
             ,
             and
             the
             documents
             of
             holy
             scripture
             beinge
             added
             ,
             and
             so
             manie
             testimonies
             of
             Cyprian
             concurringe
             .
             
             By
             this
             tyme
             I
             thinke
             the
             weaker
             sorte
             of
             men
             vnderstande
             ,
             that
             the
             baptisme
             of
             Christe
             cannot
             be
             violated
             ,
             by
             the
             peruersnes
             of
             the
             partie
             that
             geueth
             or
             receiueth
             it
             .
             Loe
             howe
             be
             bringeth
             documents
             out
             of
             scripture
             ,
             to
             prooue
             that
             the
             peruersnes
             of
             heretikes
             ,
             peruerteth
             not
             the
             baptisme
             of
             Christe
             ,
             and
             therfore
             baptisme
             ministred
             by
             hereticks
             is
             good
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               be
               written
               by
               the
               Apostles
               that
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               heretikes
               is
               sufficient
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               be
               reiterated
               ,
               why
               doe
               not
               you
               shewe
               the
               place
               and
               confound
               your
               aduersarie
               ?
               But
               you
               had
               rather
               impudētlie
               affirme
               an
               vntruth
               ,
               thē
               ingeniously
               acknowledg
               a
               cleare
               veritie
               .
               As
               thoughe
               if
               it
               hadd
               been
               so
               clearly
               &
               fully
               taught
               in
               holy
               scripture
               ,
               as
               you
               are
               bound
               to
               shewe
               it
               ,
               S.
               Cyprian
               who
               had
               a
               much
               iudgmēt
               to
               discerne
               it
               as
               you
               att
               least
               ,
               and
               noe
               lesse
               good
               will
               to
               acknowledge
               it
               ,
               nor
               yett
               lesse
               industrie
               and
               diligence
               to
               seeke
               it
               ,
               could
               not
               he
               haue
               esped
               it
               ?
               And
               howsoeuer
               here
               you
               wilfullie
               wrangle
               out
               of
               S.
               Aug
               :
               as
               though
               he
               acknowledged
               not
               the
               Baptisme
               of
               heretikes
               by
               tradition
               ,
               yett
               two
               pages
               after
               ,
               you
               in
               expresse
               wordes
               confesse
               ,
               that
               he
               saith
               :
               neither
               baptisme
               of
               infants
               ,
               nor
               by
               heretikes
               are
               written
               in
               scripture
               .
               And
               though
               you
               interpret
               him
               both
               here
               and
               there
               ,
               to
               meane
               that
               they
               are
               not
               founde
               written
               in
               so
               manie
               wordes
               ,
               but
               that
               the
               groundes
               notwithstandinge
               from
               whence
               they
               may
               be
               necessarilie
               concluded
               are
               layd
               in
               the
               scriptures
               ;
               yett
               is
               this
               your
               glosse
               meerelie
               voluntarie
               ,
               clearlie
               against
               S.
               August
               :
               meaninge
               and
               common
               sence
               .
               Or
               i●
               not
               ,
               why
               doe
               not
               you
               frame
               some
               argument
               which
               by
               necessary
               consequence
               may
               conclude
               out
               of
               the
               groundes
               layd
               in
               scripture
               ,
               abstractinge
               from
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               and
               tradition
               ,
               either
               of
               these
               two
               articles
               ?
               But
               it
               is
               more
               easie
               for
               you
               to
               affirme
               twentie
               positions
               ,
               then
               to
               prooue
               one
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
         
           
             Manuall
             catholike
             position
             .
             2.
             
          
        
         
           The
           Catholike
           churche
           doth
           ,
           and
           ought
           to
           beleeue
           those
           thinges
           which
           the
           Apostles
           deliuered
           by
           worde
           of
           mouth
           without
           writinge
           ,
           in
           the
           same
           degree
           of
           faith
           with
           those
           that
           are
           written
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             For
             answere
             vnto
             this
             ,
             lett
             the
             iudicious
             reader
             
             obserue
             that
             it
             is
             the
             vsuall
             doctrine
             of
             Papists
             to
             teach
             ,
             that
             all
             points
             of
             Christian
             beliefe
             ,
             which
             are
             necessarie
             for
             all
             men
             ,
             were
             publikelie
             preached
             by
             the
             Apostles
             to
             all
             men
             and
             recorded
             in
             the
             register
             of
             holy
             scripture
             .
             But
             besides
             these
             there
             were
             diuers
             thinges
             committed
             to
             prelats
             and
             priests
             that
             were
             more
             perfect
             men
             ,
             which
             they
             taught
             them
             a
             parte
             ,
             accordinge
             to
             that
             which
             S.
             Paule
             saith
             ,
             we
             speake
             wisdome
             amonge
             them
             that
             are
             perfect
             .
             And
             these
             be
             theire
             traditions
             which
             they
             would
             haue
             equallie
             credited
             with
             the
             scriptures
             .
             Nowe
             this
             was
             the
             verie
             doctrine
             of
             the
             auncient
             heretikes
             ,
             Valentinians
             ,
             Cerintheans
             ,
             Marcionists
             &c.
             
             For
             abusinge
             the
             scripture
             and
             aduancinge
             traditiōs
             grounded
             on
             the
             same
             foundation
             ,
             as
             the
             fathers
             tell
             vs.
             And
             these
             be
             thinges
             which
             the
             protestants
             denie
             to
             be
             equall
             with
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             for
             they
             graunt
             that
             the
             Apostles
             in
             the
             beginninge
             of
             theire
             embassage
             ,
             write
             not
             the
             whole
             doctrine
             which
             they
             preached
             ,
             but
             deliuered
             parte
             by
             worde
             of
             mouth
             ,
             and
             parte
             by
             writinge
             ;
             howbeit
             they
             consigned
             the
             Canon
             of
             the
             scripture
             ,
             and
             writte
             that
             formerlie
             they
             had
             deliuered
             as
             
             Ireneus
             and
             August
             .
             doe
             teach
             .
             This
             beinge
             the
             true
             state
             of
             the
             question
             ,
             if
             the
             papists
             meane
             not
             these
             former
             secret
             matters
             that
             Bellarmine
             mentioneth
             and
             are
             not
             written
             ,
             his
             position
             is
             ,
             
               de
               non
               ente
            
             .
             For
             that
             there
             is
             nothinge
             or
             faith
             nowe
             ,
             which
             the
             Apostles
             did
             not
             after
             they
             preached
             either
             finde
             or
             leaue
             in
             writinge
             vnto
             the
             churche
             ,
             and
             these
             beinge
             deliuered
             at
             first
             ,
             partely
             by
             liuelie
             voyce
             ,
             partely
             by
             letters
             ,
             were
             to
             be
             embraced
             with
             like
             acceptance
             and
             creditt
             .
             But
             if
             he
             meane
             these
             secret
             doctrines
             deliuered
             a
             parte
             ,
             and
             only
             by
             worde
             ,
             neuer
             by
             them
             written
             ,
             then
             we
             denie
             that
             the
             Apostles
             left
             any
             such
             thinge
             equallie
             to
             be
             credited
             ,
             with
             the
             holy
             scriptures
             ,
             neither
             the
             allegations
             inferre
             anie
             such
             matter
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               haue
               here
               multiplyed
               a
               greate
               heape
               of
               vnnecessarie
               wordes
               ,
               making
               the
               thinge
               obscure
               ,
               which
               of
               it selfe
               is
               cleare
               enough
               .
               The
               question
               is
               not
               now
               (
               as
               you
               say
               )
               whether
               the
               Apostles
               taught
               not
               more
               by
               word
               of
               mouth
               (
               whether
               in
               secret
               or
               in
               publicke
               ,
               that
               importeth
               not
               )
               that
               ,
               hauinge
               been
               disputed
               before
               ,
               and
               prooued
               against
               you
               .
               But
               of
               what
               authoritie
               the
               thinges
               deliuered
               only
               by
               worde
               of
               mouth
               are
               ,
               of
               which
               question
               you
               haue
               the
               beleefe
               of
               the
               catholicke
               churche
               sett
               downe
               directlie
               in
               the
               position
               of
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               and
               the
               proofe
               thereof
               out
               of
               expresse
               scripture
               ,
               whereunto
               lett
               vs
               heare
               your
               answere
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             .
             Proofe
             1.
             
          
        
         
           Therefore
           brethren
           stand
           and
           holde
           the
           traditions
           which
           you
           haue
           learned
           ,
           whether
           it
           be
           by
           worde
           or
           by
           our
           .
           Epistle
           S.
           
           Basill
           saith
           I
           account
           it
           Apostolike
           to
           continue
           
           firmelie
           in
           vnwritten
           traditions
           ,
           and
           alleageth
           this
           place
           of
           S.
           Paule
           S.
           Chrisost
           cited
           by
           fulke
           himselfe
           saith
           this
           .
           Hereof
           it
           is
           manifest
           that
           they
           (
           the
           Apostles
           )
           deliuered
           not
           all
           by
           Epistles
           :
           but
           manie
           things
           without
           letters
           ,
           and
           the
           one
           is
           of
           as
           great
           creditt
           as
           the
           other
           .
           Therefore
           we
           thinke
           the
           traditions
           of
           the
           churche
           to
           be
           worthy
           of
           creditt
           ,
           it
           is
           tradition
           ,
           inquire
           noe
           more
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             To
             your
             first
             testimonie
             ,
             if
             I
             shoulde
             answere
             that
             S.
             Paule
             meaneth
             not
             he
             deliuered
             some
             thinges
             by
             writinge
             ,
             somethings
             by
             worde
             only
             ,
             but
             the
             very
             same
             by
             both
             ,
             first
             preachinge
             it
             ,
             and
             after
             writinge
             ,
             it
             would
             trouble
             you
             to
             prooue
             the
             contrarie
             .
             For
             the
             disiunctiue
             (
             whether
             )
             argueth
             not
             diuersitie
             of
             thinges
             deliuered
             ,
             but
             diuers
             wayes
             of
             deliueringe
             the
             same
             ,
             as
             in
             other
             places
             Rom.
             14.
             8.
             whether
             we
             liue
             or
             whether
             we
             dye
             ,
             wee
             are
             the
             lordes
             :
             it
             followeth
             not
             dying
             we
             are
             one
             ,
             and
             liuinge
             we
             are
             another
             1.
             
             Cor.
             5.
             11.
             whether
             I
             or
             they
             ,
             so
             we
             preach
             ,
             and
             therefore
             Paule
             preached
             one
             gospell
             ,
             the
             Apostles
             another
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               You
               doe
               wiselie
               not
               to
               stand
               much
               vppon
               your
               newe
               inuention
               ,
               least
               to
               your
               owne
               companions
               you
               might
               become
               ridiculous
               ,
               neither
               though
               you
               should
               stande
               there
               vppon
               ,
               shoulde
               it
               putt
               me
               to
               much
               trouble
               to
               prooue
               the
               contrary
               :
               vnles
               to
               establishe
               your
               noueltie
               you
               woulde
               thinke
               to
               inuert
               the
               common
               and
               vsuall
               manner
               of
               speakinge
               and
               vnderstandinge
               
               of
               all
               men
               .
               For
               the
               disiunctiue
               (
               whether
               )
               doth
               alwayes
               signifie
               the
               diuersitie
               of
               the
               thinge
               ioyned
               with
               it
               ,
               as
               is
               manifest
               euen
               in
               your
               examples
               ,
               
                 whether
                 we
                 liue
                 or
                 dye
                 ;
                 whether
                 I
                 or
                 they
                 :
              
               but
               so
               as
               one
               and
               the
               same
               thinge
               is
               affirmed
               of
               them
               both
               ,
               &
               so
               it
               is
               in
               our
               testimonie
               as
               also
               in
               these
               sayinges
               followinge
               ;
               
                 retayne
                 the
                 goods
                 you
                 haue
                 receiued
                 whether
                 in
                 money
                 or
                 marchandise
                 .
                 Keepe
                 the
                 present
                 I
                 sent
                 you
                 ,
                 whether
                 in
                 Iewells
                 or
                 in
                 plaie
              
               With
               fiue
               thousand
               moe
               .
               And
               it
               is
               a
               ridiculous
               conceipt
               to
               thinke
               ,
               that
               the
               Apostle
               commended
               vnto
               his
               disciple
               the
               same
               thinges
               both
               written
               and
               preached
               :
               in
               which
               sence
               his
               sayinge
               shoulde
               be
               no
               more
               disiunctiue
               but
               copulatiue
               in
               this
               manner
               ,
               hold
               those
               thinges
               which
               you
               haue
               learned
               both
               by
               worde
               and
               Epistle
               :
               Which
               is
               not
               to
               interprett
               the
               Apostle
               ,
               but
               manifestly
               to
               corrupt
               him
               .
               Seeinge
               therefore
               you
               dare
               not
               stand
               vppon
               this
               interpretation
               ,
               let
               vs
               heare
               your
               auowed
               answere
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             But
             I
             adde
             that
             if
             one
             vnderstand
             these
             thinges
             of
             diuerse
             pointes
             of
             Christian
             religion
             ,
             which
             S.
             Paule
             deliuered
             vnto
             the
             Thessalon●ās
             and
             writte
             them
             not
             :
             it
             will
             not
             followe
             ,
             that
             other
             Apostles
             writte
             them
             not
             ,
             and
             still
             your
             thesis
             is
             
               de
               non
               ente
            
             this
             testimonie
             is
             to
             no
             purpose
             ,
             sith
             what
             point
             of
             doctrine
             Paule
             deliuered
             by
             voyce
             ,
             we
             finde
             recorded
             in
             the
             scriptures
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               followeth
               right
               well
               that
               the
               other
               Apostles
               writte
               not
               these
               thinge
               which
               S.
               Paule
               deliuered
               onlie
               by
               worde
               .
               if
               your
               rule
               be
               true
               ,
               
                 non
                 credimus
                 quia
                 non
                 ●egimios
              
               For
               it
               is
               noe
               where
               written
               that
               they
               wrote
               those
               thinges
               ;
               therefore
               accordinge
               to
               your
               doctrine
               ,
               not
               to
               be
               beleeued
               .
               Againe
               I
               hauinge
               prooued
               by
               expresse
               scripture
               interpreted
               by
               the
               fathers
               ,
               
               that
               the
               Apostle
               taught
               somethinge
               more
               then
               he
               wrote
               ,
               and
               commanded
               it
               to
               be
               beleeued
               equally
               with
               his
               writinge
               (
               which
               is
               the
               position
               of
               the
               Manuall
               )
               it
               behooueth
               you
               that
               maintayne
               the
               contrarie
               ,
               to
               prooue
               it
               by
               expresse
               scripture
               ,
               or
               else
               to
               confesse
               that
               the
               catholike
               doctrine
               hath
               better
               and
               more
               firme
               ground
               in
               the
               scripture
               then
               Protestantisme
               .
               You
               prooue
               brauely
               my
               thesis
               to
               be
               
                 de
                 non
                 en●e
              
               ,
               and
               the
               proofe
               thereof
               to
               be
               to
               no
               purpose
               ,
               by
               your
               ordinarie
               miserable
               ,
               absurde
               ,
               and
               ridiculous
               begginge
               of
               that
               which
               is
               in
               question
               ,
               &
               supposinge
               that
               for
               true
               and
               graunted
               ,
               which
               is
               expresselie
               denyed
               But
               to
               such
               shameful
               shifts
               is
               falsitie
               worthely
               driuen
               .
               Lett
               vs
               see
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               answere
               if
               it
               be
               anie
               better
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               The
               testimonie
               cited
               out
               of
               Basill
               ,
               is
               wrongfullie
               fathered
               on
               that
               worthy-Bishoppe
               ,
               and
               contradicteth
               that
               which
               he
               writeth
               in
               other
               places
               ,
               and
               are
               acknowledged
               on
               both
               sides
               to
               be
               his
               ,
               and
               namelie
               his
               sermon
            
             de
             fide
             ,
             
               where
               he
               saith
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               a
               manifest
               desection
               from
               faith
               ,
               to
               bringe
               in
               anie
               thinge
               that
               is
               not
               written
               .
               Besides
               in
               this
               verie
               chapter
               mentioned
            
             
             
               by
               you
               ,
               he
               speakes
               of
               Meletus
               ,
               as
               a
               rare
               man
               that
               liued
               an
               dyed
               before
               his
               tyme
               ,
               as
               appeareth
               by
               diuers
               of
               his
               Epistles
               .
               And
               if
               we
               creditt
               Baronius
               he
               dyed
               after
               Basill
               .
               For
               Basill
               dyed
               .
               378.
               and
               Meletus
            
             381.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Here
               indeede
               you
               goe
               roundlie
               to
               worke
               ,
               and
               like
               yourselfe
               ,
               for
               not
               knowinge
               howe
               to
               answere
               the
               authoritie
               ,
               you
               denie
               the
               author
               ;
               for
               two
               weighty
               reasons
               I
               wisse
               .
               The
               first
               is
               a
               pretence
               of
               a
               contradiction
               ,
               which
               is
               as
               much
               a
               contradiction
               ,
               as
               to
               affirme
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               to
               be
               a
               minister
               ,
               and
               a
               doctor
               .
               For
               he
               
               affirminge
               it
               to
               be
               Apostolike
               ,
               to
               continue
               firmelie
               in
               vnwritten
               traditions
               :
               saith
               it
               is
               infidelitie
               to
               adde
               any
               thinge
               to
               the
               scriptures
               that
               is
               contrarie
               vnto
               them
               .
               The
               second
               is
               a
               weake
               cōiecture
               ,
               that
               he
               liued
               after
               one
               Meletus
               ,
               who
               notwithstandinge
               is
               sayde
               to
               die
               after
               him
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Chrisostome
             is
             the
             onlie
             man
             that
             seemeth
             to
             fauour
             your
             assertion
             ,
             but
             trulie
             vnderstood
             he
             helpeth
             it
             nothinge
             .
             For
             he
             speaketh
             not
             of
             traditions
             that
             are
             not
             written
             at
             all
             ,
             but
             of
             such
             as
             are
             not
             written
             in
             so
             manie
             wordes
             .
             And
             it
             is
             vsuall
             with
             the
             fathers
             ,
             to
             call
             them
             vnwritten
             traditions
             ,
             which
             are
             not
             verbatim
             sett
             downe
             in
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             and
             yett
             haue
             a
             true
             ground
             in
             them
             ,
             as
             formerlie
             I
             shewed
             out
             of
             S.
             Aug.
             who
             saith
             that
             neither
             baptisinge
             of
             infants
             ,
             nor
             baptisinge
             by
             heretikes
             ,
             are
             written
             in
             the
             scripture
             ,
             and
             yett
             prooueth
             both
             out
             of
             them
             .
             This
             is
             the
             answere
             of
             that
             worthy
             diuine
             D.
             Fulke
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Both
               you
               and
               your
               worthy
               diuine
               D.
               Fulke
               ,
               corrupt
               S.
               Chrisost
               :
               who
               saith
               it
               is
               manifest
               by
               the
               testimonie
               of
               the
               Apostle
               ,
               that
               they
               deliuered
               not
               all
               by
               Epistles
               ,
               but
               manie
               thinges
               without
               letters
               ,
               marke
               these
               wordes
               
                 without
                 letters
              
               ,
               and
               see
               whether
               they
               will
               stand
               with
               your
               glosse
               .
               You
               here
               confesse
               against
               your selfe
               ,
               that
               S
               :
               Aug
               :
               saith
               ,
               neither
               baptisme
               of
               infants
               ,
               nor
               by
               heretikes
               is
               written
               ;
               and
               therefore
               consequentlie
               beleeued
               by
               tradition
               .
               But
               you
               say
               he
               neuerthelesse
               prooueth
               both
               by
               scriptures
               .
               He
               sheweth
               indeede
               by
               scriptures
               ,
               that
               they
               are
               not
               contrarie
               to
               scriptures
               ;
               but
               that
               they
               are
               either
               commaunded
               or
               warranted
               by
               scriptures
               he
               shewed
               not
               ;
               but
               recurreth
               to
               tradition
               and
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               churche
               .
               
               So
               that
               the
               confirmation
               of
               your
               glosse
               vppon
               S.
               Chrisostome
               out
               of
               S.
               Aug
               :
               is
               as
               voluntarie
               as
               the
               glosse
               it selfe
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             This
             is
             the
             answere
             of
             that
             worthie
             diūine
             Dr.
             Fulke
             to
             the
             obiection
             of
             the
             Rhemists
             cited
             not
             by
             him
             ,
             but
             by
             them
             out
             of
             S.
             Chrisostome
             ;
             which
             I
             wounder
             howe
             you
             impute
             to
             him
             ,
             except
             you
             would
             haue
             your
             reader
             to
             conceiue
             that
             he
             fauoreth
             your
             opinion
             ,
             which
             he
             directlie
             impugneth
             in
             that
             place
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               knowe
               that
               amongst
               other
               peruersities
               of
               that
               affected
               wrangler
               Fulke
               ,
               this
               is
               one
               ,
               which
               for
               his
               name
               ,
               hath
               not
               the
               more
               ,
               but
               much
               lesse
               probabilitie
               ,
               because
               he
               euerie
               where
               impugneth
               the
               manifest
               truth
               .
               Nor
               did
               I
               impute
               it
               to
               him
               for
               the
               end
               you
               say
               ,
               for
               I
               desire
               not
               his
               fauour
               in
               the
               behalfe
               of
               the
               catholike
               truth
               ,
               beinge
               a
               peruerse
               enemie
               thereof
               ;
               but
               for
               this
               reason
               ,
               that
               the
               protestant
               reader
               should
               not
               suspect
               the
               place
               to
               be
               cited
               by
               me
               more
               fauorablie
               then
               it
               was
               in
               it selfe
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             Proofe
             2.
             
          
        
         
           O
           Timothie
           keepe
           the
           depositum
           ,
           that
           is
           that
           which
           is
           committed
           to
           thy
           trust
           ,
           not
           certes
           by
           writinge
           .
           For
           litle
           or
           nothinge
           written
           of
           the
           newe
           testament
           was
           knowne
           to
           Timothy
           then
           .
           See
           a
           large
           discourse
           hereuppon
           in
           Vincentius
           Lirinensis
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             This
             is
             nothinge
             to
             the
             purpose
             .
             For
             whether
             
             that
             which
             was
             comitted
             to
             Timothies
             trust
             ,
             be
             vnderstoode
             his
             flocke
             as
             Lyra
             conceiueth
             it
             ,
             or
             those
             gifts
             which
             were
             bestowed
             vppon
             him
             for
             
             the
             edifiinge
             of
             the
             people
             ,
             as
             Aquinas
             iudgeth
             ;
             it
             is
             farr
             from
             your
             inference
             ,
             that
             vnwritten
             traditions
             are
             of
             equall
             creditt
             with
             the
             scriptures
             .
             Vincentius
             fauoureth
             not
             your
             traditions
             att
             all
             ;
             For
             that
             which
             was
             committed
             to
             Timothie
             ,
             is
             in
             his
             opinion
             the
             talent
             of
             catholike
             faith
             ,
             whereof
             ,
             he
             was
             not
             the
             author
             ,
             but
             the
             keeper
             ,
             not
             an
             ordayner
             ,
             but
             a
             follower
             ;
             not
             a
             leader
             but
             one
             that
             is
             ledd
             .
             Loe
             this
             is
             the
             catholike
             faith
             contayned
             in
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             not
             traditions
             of
             other
             doctrine
             beside
             them
             or
             without
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             The
             depositum
             which
             S.
             Paule
             speaketh
             of
             ,
             is
             the
             whole
             christian
             doctrine
             deliuered
             by
             the
             Apostles
             to
             theire
             disciples
             to
             keepe
             ,
             and
             to
             deliuer
             to
             others
             as
             is
             manifest
             ,
             by
             the
             wordes
             followinge
             in
             the
             same
             text
             .
             
               O
               Timothie
               (
               saith
               he
               )
               keepe
               the
               depositum
               ,
               auoydinge
               the
               prophane
               nouelties
               of
               voyces
               and
               oppositions
               of
               falslie
               called
               knowledge
               .
            
             Verie
             litle
             of
             which
             doctrine
             beinge
             then
             written
             ,
             it
             must
             necessarilie
             be
             vnderstoode
             of
             tradition
             .
             And
             this
             is
             Vincentius
             Lirinensis
             doctrine
             ;
             which
             you
             cannott
             denie
             ,
             though
             you
             would
             obscure
             it
             a
             litle
             in
             wordes
             ,
             sayinge
             the
             depositum
             is
             the
             catholike
             faith
             ;
             where
             if
             you
             meane
             ,
             the
             thinges
             belieued
             ▪
             you
             say
             the
             same
             that
             I
             say
             ,
             if
             you
             meane
             the
             act
             or
             habitt
             of
             faith
             ,
             you
             speake
             against
             common
             sence
             .
          
           
             For
             that
             is
             not
             the
             depositum
             comitted
             to
             Timothie
             ,
             by
             S.
             Paule
             ,
             but
             the
             vertue
             of
             faith
             ,
             geuen
             him
             by
             God
             ,
             neither
             is
             it
             formallie
             opposed
             to
             the
             prophane
             nouelties
             to
             be
             auoyded
             by
             him
             ;
             but
             the
             vertue
             or
             act
             whereby
             we
             assent
             vnto
             the
             articles
             of
             faith
             and
             verities
             proposed
             vnto
             vs.
             
          
        
      
       
         
           
             Manuall
             Proofe
             3.
             
          
        
         
           But
           if
           anie
           man
           seeme
           to
           be
           contentious
           ,
           we
           haue
           no
           such
           custome
           nor
           the
           churche
           
           of
           God.
           Where
           S.
           Paule
           alleageth
           the
           custome
           of
           the
           churche
           ,
           as
           a
           sufficient
           disproofe
           of
           any
           practise
           :
           why
           not
           therefore
           for
           the
           proofe
           of
           anie
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             
               Our
               question
               is
               of
               doctrines
               of
               faith
               ,
               to
               be
               beleeued
               and
               receiued
               of
               all
               ,
               not
               of
               rites
               and
               ceremonies
               concerninge
               externall
               order
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               whereof
               the
               Apostle
               treateth
               in
               that
            
             
             
               place
               .
               This
               therefore
               is
               nothinge
               to
               the
               purpose
               ,
               nor
               touchinge
               our
               question
               att
               all
               :
               and
               yett
               S.
               Paule
               alleageth
               not
               onlie
               custome
               ,
               but
               geueth
               a
               reason
               of
               it
               in
               the
               wordes
               goinge
               before
               ;
               which
               you
               seldome
               doe
               satisfy
               your
               proselites
               ,
               but
               persuade
               them
               to
               beleeue
               and
               hange
               faith
               vppon
               your
               credit
               ,
               as
               if
               it
               were
               impossible
               you
               shoulde
               be
               deceiued
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Our
               question
               is
               as
               well
               of
               manners
               or
               thinges
               to
               be
               obserued
               ,
               as
               of
               faith
               ,
               and
               so
               is
               the
               former
               Catholike
               position
               of
               the
               Manuall
               conceiued
               ,
               and
               sett
               downe
               ,
               neither
               is
               the
               authoritie
               of
               traditions
               either
               more
               fallible
               ,
               or
               lesse
               necessarie
               in
               the
               one
               then
               in
               the
               other
               .
               Or
               if
               you
               thinke
               the
               contrarie
               ,
               geue
               vs
               some
               sufficient
               reason
               or
               proofe
               thereof
               ,
               besides
               your
               owne
               bare
               assertion
               .
               Which
               if
               you
               cannot
               seeinge
               you
               are
               constrained
               by
               the
               euidence
               of
               scripture
               ,
               to
               admitte
               the
               authoritie
               of
               tradition
               in
               the
               one
               ,
               you
               cannott
               without
               wilfull
               obstinacie
               reiect
               it
               in
               the
               other
               .
               And
               thoughe
               S.
               Paule
               geueth
               some
               reasons
               of
               his
               doctrine
               in
               that
               place
               ,
               yett
               he
               recurreth
               to
               the
               custome
               of
               the
               churche
               ,
               as
               to
               the
               most
               effectuall
               and
               forcible
               argument
               against
               those
               that
               are
               obstinat
               and
               contentious
               as
               you
               are
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
         
           
             Manuall
             Proofe
             4.
             
          
        
         
           The
           things
           thou
           hast
           heard
           of
           me
           by
           manie
           
           witnesses
           these
           comend
           to
           the
           faithfull
           men
           which
           shall
           be
           fitt
           to
           teach
           others
           also
           .
           Loe
           no
           worde
           here
           of
           writinge
           ,
           but
           of
           hearinge
           and
           teachinge
           by
           word
           of
           mouth
           .
        
         
           Nowe
           hauinge
           prooued
           by
           scripture
           it selfe
           &
           euident
           instances
           ,
           that
           manie
           thinges
           are
           to
           be
           beleeued
           ,
           that
           are
           not
           directlie
           contayned
           in
           scripture
           ,
           it
           appeareth
           a
           senceles
           thinge
           to
           demande
           proofe
           of
           euery
           thinge
           we
           beleeue
           ,
           out
           of
           scriptures
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Whereas
             Paule
             chargeth
             Timothie
             to
             commend
             those
             thinges
             to
             faithfull
             witnesses
             ,
             which
             he
             had
             learned
             of
             him
             ,
             where
             there
             is
             no
             mention
             of
             writinge
             but
             teachinge
             by
             worde
             ,
             I
             woulde
             gladlie
             demande
             of
             this
             Papiste
             ,
             if
             he
             woulde
             with
             patience
             endure
             anie
             of
             vs
             thus
             wildlie
             reasoninge
             .
             These
             thinges
             were
             taught
             and
             hearde
             ,
             and
             commended
             to
             faithfull
             witnesses
             ,
             therefore
             not
             written
             .
             The
             Bereans
             hearde
             S.
             Paule
             teach
             ,
             but
             the
             same
             things
             they
             founde
             in
             the
             scriptures
             .
             Thus
             Aquinas
             interpreteth
             this
             place
             ,
             these
             thinges
             which
             thou
             hast
             hearde
             of
             me
             and
             of
             Christe
             ,
             I
             say
             not
             of
             one
             onlie
             ,
             but
             confirmed
             by
             manie
             witnesses
             vid.
             the
             Lawe
             and
             the
             Prophetts
             .
             So
             thinges
             were
             not
             onlie
             taught
             by
             worde
             ,
             but
             confirmed
             by
             the
             doctrine
             of
             the
             oulde
             testament
             .
          
           
             
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               reasoninge
               is
               not
               wilde
               but
               firme
               and
               good
               ,
               especiallie
               accordinge
               to
               your
               groundes
               ,
               who
               teach
               that
               nothinge
               is
               to
               be
               beleeued
               that
               is
               not
               written
               .
               For
               seeinge
               it
               is
               no
               where
               written
               that
               these
               thinges
               which
               S.
               Paule
               taught
               and
               comended
               to
               Timothie
               to
               teach
               to
               others
               were
               committed
               to
               writinge
               ,
               you
               cannot
               beleeue
               that
               they
               were
               written
               ,
               but
               by
               contradictinge
               your
               owne
               rule
               ,
               
                 non
                 credimu●
                 quia
                 non
                 legimus
              
               .
               Agayne
               S.
               Paule
               exhortinge
               Timothie
               to
               teach
               others
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               write
               vnto
               them
               these
               thinges
               which
               he
               had
               hearde
               of
               him
               ,
               not
               read
               out
               of
               his
               writinges
               ,
               doth
               manifestly
               shewe
               ,
               that
               not
               onlie
               thinges
               writter●
               ,
               but
               also
               thinges
               spoken
               (
               yea
               these
               principallie
               )
               are
               to
               be
               beleeued
               .
               And
               therefore
               this
               arguinge
               is
               not
               wilde
               ,
               but
               that
               your
               witts
               were
               one
               wooll-gatheringe
               ,
               when
               you
               wrote
               this
               and
               sawe
               not
               the
               force
               of
               the
               argument
               ,
               vnles
               peraduenture
               you
               woulde
               be
               politike
               in
               dissembling
               the
               force
               thereof
               ,
               because
               you
               coulde
               not
               auoyde
               it
               .
               And
               though
               S.
               Paule
               confirmed
               much
               of
               his
               doctrine
               by
               the
               authoritie
               of
               the
               oulde
               testament
               ,
               yett
               that
               he
               taught
               nothinge
               more
               ,
               then
               that
               which
               was
               written
               before
               ,
               I
               suppose
               you
               will
               not
               dare
               to
               say
               .
               And
               if
               you
               thinke
               the
               commentarie
               of
               S.
               Thomas
               here
               alleaged
               by
               you
               to
               be
               true
               ,
               why
               doe
               you
               condemne
               the
               beleeuinge
               of
               thinges
               not
               written
               ,
               seeinge
               you
               finde
               not
               his
               comment
               written
               in
               all
               the
               whole
               Bible
               .
               Or
               if
               you
               condemne
               it
               not
               in
               him
               ▪
               why
               should
               you
               condemne
               it
               in
               vs
               ,
               or
               abhorr
               it
               in
               your selfe
               ?
               And
               thus
               you
               see
               you
               are
               forced
               which
               way
               soeuer
               you
               turne
               your selfe
               ,
               to
               admitte
               of
               vnwritten
               doctrine
               for
               good
               and
               canonicall
               ,
               when
               you
               haue
               spited
               all
               your
               canne
               against
               it
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
          
           
             Nowe
             that
             you
             may
             knowe
             that
             protestants
             haue
             bothe
             a
             shielde
             to
             defend
             themselues
             ,
             and
             a
             sworde
             to
             wound
             theire
             aduersaries
             ,
             heare
             theire
             
             positions
             with
             the
             confirmation
             thereof
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               sworde
               be
               no
               sharper
               ,
               then
               your
               shielde
               is
               stronge
               ,
               it
               will
               no
               more
               wounde
               your
               aduersaries
               ,
               thē
               the
               other
               hath
               kept
               your
               doctrine
               whole
               .
               Which
               hath
               been
               so
               often
               pierced
               ,
               as
               hadd
               your
               shoulders
               receiued
               so
               manie
               but
               drie
               blowes
               ,
               as
               your
               doctrine
               hath
               donne
               ouerthrowes
               ,
               they
               would
               geue
               you
               but
               small
               rest
               till
               you
               had
               taken
               some
               soueraigne
               Elixir
               to
               cure
               them
               .
            
             
               And
               why
               doe
               you
               not
               put
               downe
               the
               protestants
               positions
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Manuall
               ?
               If
               you
               had
               disliked
               them
               ,
               you
               should
               haue
               tould
               vs
               why
               ;
               if
               you
               did
               not
               dislike
               them
               ,
               they
               had
               been
               more
               easily
               sett
               downe
               in
               theire
               owne
               wordes
               ,
               then
               in
               others
               .
               Well
               I
               will
               here
               sett
               them
               downe
               that
               the
               reader
               may
               see
               them
               in
               theire
               owne
               shape
               .
            
          
        
      
       
         
           Manuall
           protestant
           position
           1.
           
        
         
           The
           holy
           Apostles
           deliuered
           not
           by
           worde
           of
           mouth
           moe
           thinges
           to
           be
           beleeued
           and
           obserued
           by
           the
           churche
           ,
           then
           they
           either
           found
           written
           or
           wrote
           themselues
           .
           And
           therefore
           are
           there
           no
           traditions
           to
           be
           holden
           or
           beleeued
           .
        
         
           Position
           2.
           
        
         
           The
           catholike
           churche
           ought
           not
           to
           beleeue
           those
           thinges
           which
           the
           Apostles
           deliuered
           onlie
           by
           worde
           of
           mouth
           without
           writinge
           in
           the
           same
           degree
           of
           faith
           ,
           with
           those
           which
           are
           written
           .
           Nowe
           lett
           vs
           heare
           yours
           .
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             ANTITHESIS
             .
             1.
             
          
           
             The
             Apostles
             deliuered
             not
             by
             worde
             of
             mouth
             ,
             more
             thinges
             to
             be
             beleeued
             ,
             or
             obserued
             
             by
             the
             churche
             as
             necessarie
             to
             saluation
             ,
             then
             they
             wrote
             themselues
             or
             found
             writen
             .
          
        
         
           
             Proofe
             .
             1.
             
          
           
             Acts.
             26.
             22.
             hauinge
             therefore
             obtayned
             helpe
             of
             God
             ,
             I
             continue
             vnto
             this
             day
             ,
             witnessinge
             both
             to
             greate
             and
             small
             ,
             sayinge
             none
             other
             thinges
             ,
             then
             those
             which
             the
             prophetts
             and
             Moses
             did
             say
             shoulde
             come
             .
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             They
             that
             preached
             no
             other
             thinges
             then
             that
             which
             is
             in
             Moises
             and
             the
             prophets
             ,
             deliuered
             no
             more
             by
             worde
             of
             mouth
             then
             is
             written
             (
             then
             was
             written
             you
             shoulde
             haue
             sayd
             )
             but
             the
             Apostles
             did
             so
             .
             Ergo.
             
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Your
               argument
               if
               it
               did
               prooue
               anie
               thinge
               would
               conclude
               that
               the
               Apostles
               taught
               nothinge
               more
               then
               which
               was
               written
               in
               Moises
               and
               the
               prophets
               ;
               which
               if
               it
               be
               true
               ,
               what
               necessitie
               or
               profitt●
               is
               there
               of
               the
               gospells
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               bookes
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               ?
               Whilst
               therefore
               you
               impugne
               traditions
               ,
               you
               ouerthrowe
               the
               whole
               newe
               testament
               .
               S.
               Paule
               therefore
               taught
               nothinge
               contrarie
               to
               the
               lawe
               and
               prophetts
               ,
               yea
               those
               thinges
               which
               he
               preached
               to
               the
               Iewes
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christe
               ,
               he
               prooued
               to
               be
               conformable
               to
               theire
               owne
               prophetts
               .
               Which
               kinde
               of
               proofe
               to
               the
               gentills
               would
               haue
               been
               of
               small
               moment
               ,
               and
               therefore
               you
               see
               your
               argument
               not
               to
               be
               effectuall
               nor
               to
               conclude
               vniuersallie
               .
            
             
               Againe
               why
               doe
               you
               vse
               the
               like
               manner
               of
               reasoninge
               which
               you
               reprehended
               in
               me
               a
               litle
               before
               ,
               concludinge
               that
               because
               S.
               Paule
               at
               one
               tyme
               ,
               or
               in
               one
               audience
               preached
               nothinge
               without
               the
               lawe
               ,
               and
               prophetts
               ;
               that
               therefore
               neither
               he
               or
               
               anie
               other
               tymes
               nor
               anie
               other
               of
               the
               Apostles
               ▪
               did
               preach
               anie
               thinge
               more
               then
               that
               which
               is
               contayned
               in
               them
               ?
               Which
               kinde
               of
               argument
               thoughe
               I
               may
               iustly
               maintaine
               against
               you
               ,
               as
               conformeable
               to
               your
               owne
               principles
               ,
               denyinge
               traditions
               and
               beleeuinge
               nothinge
               but
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               yett
               are
               you
               ridiculous
               to
               vse
               it
               against
               me
               ,
               who
               professe
               to
               beleeue
               manie
               thinges
               not
               written
               .
               And
               much
               more
               ridiculous
               you
               are
               to
               vse
               it
               for
               the
               impugninge
               of
               traditions
               ,
               assuminge
               that
               for
               the
               grounde
               of
               your
               proofe
               ,
               which
               you
               knowe
               is
               denyed
               you
               ,
               and
               which
               oughte
               firste
               to
               be
               prooued
               .
            
             
               Further
               where
               doe
               you
               finde
               in
               all
               the
               prophetts
               or
               Moises
               ,
               the
               vision
               whereof
               S.
               Paule
               maketh
               a
               recitall
               in
               the
               chapter
               cited
               by
               you
               ?
               Certainlie
               no
               where
               .
               And
               yett
               this
               he
               preached
               with
               much
               vehemencie
               in
               an
               assemblie
               of
               greate
               personages
               ,
               and
               himselfe
               thought
               it
               worthy
               of
               beleefe
               .
               Somethinge
               therefore
               you
               see
               he
               preached
               more
               then
               that
               which
               was
               contayned
               in
               Moises
               and
               the
               prophetts
               .
               And
               this
               I
               geue
               you
               for
               an
               example
               onlie
               ,
               and
               not
               as
               the
               sole
               thinge
               wherein
               instance
               may
               be
               made
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             2.
             
          
           
             2.
             
             
               Tim.
               3.
               16.
               
               From
               a
               childe
               thou
               haste
               knowne
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               which
               are
               able
               to
               make
               thee
               wise
               vnto
               saluation
               ,
               thoroughe
               faith
               which
               is
               in
               Christe
               Iesus
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             The
             Apostles
             deliuered
             no
             more
             by
             worde
             nor
             writtinge
             but
             that
             which
             maketh
             a
             man
             wise
             to
             saluation
             .
             But
             all
             this
             written
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               dare
               stand
               to
               this
               argument
               ,
               I
               will
               easilie
               prooue
               you
               to
               be
               more
               a
               Iewe
               then
               a
               christian
               by
               this
               Sillogisme
               .
               He
               that
               holdeth
               al
               that
               which
               is
               able
               to
               make
               a
               man
               wise
               to
               saluation
               (
               so
               that
               no
               other
               thinge
               is
               necessarie
               )
               to
               be
               written
               in
               the
               oulde
               testament
               
               is
               more
               a
               Iewe
               then
               a
               Christian
               .
               But
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               holdeth
               this
               .
               Ergo.
               The
               minor
               which
               onlie
               needeth
               proofe
               I
               shewe
               thus
               .
               Maister
               Pilkinton
               holdeth
               the
               scripture
               which
               S.
               Timothie
               knewe
               from
               a
               childe
               to
               be
               able
               to
               make
               a
               man
               wise
               to
               saluation
               .
               But
               this
               was
               onlie
               the
               olde
               testament
               .
               Ergo.
               By
               that
               tyme
               that
               you
               shall
               haue
               quitte
               your selfe
               of
               this
               argument
               ,
               you
               will
               I
               suppose
               finde
               your
               owne
               not
               to
               deserue
               the
               name
               of
               an
               argument
               ,
               nor
               yett
               of
               a
               wittie
               Sophisme
               .
               For
               to
               beleeue
               one
               only
               God
               ,
               is
               able
               to
               make
               a
               man
               wise
               to
               saluation
               ,
               because
               it
               maketh
               him
               wise
               in
               some
               thinge
               necessarie
               to
               saluation
               ,
               as
               no
               man
               of
               common
               sence
               will
               denie
               .
               And
               yett
               that
               alone
               is
               not
               sufficient
               to
               saluation
               ,
               as
               I
               thinke
               you
               yourselfe
               will
               confesse
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             3.
             
          
           
             Io.
             20.
             31.
             
             These
             are
             written
             that
             yee
             might
             beleeue
             that
             Iesus
             is
             the
             sonne
             of
             God
             ,
             and
             beleeuinge
             you
             might
             haue
             life
             thoroughe
             his
             name
             .
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             They
             that
             writte
             all
             thinges
             ,
             whereby
             we
             might
             come
             to
             eternall
             life
             ,
             wrote
             all
             thinges
             necessarie
             vnto
             saluation
             ,
             and
             more
             they
             preached
             not
             :
             But
             the
             Apostles
             did
             so
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               argument
               is
               all
               moste
               as
               wicked
               as
               the
               precedent
               .
               For
               if
               it
               conclude
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               it
               prooueth
               the
               Apostles
               to
               haue
               preached
               nothinge
               but
               S.
               Iohns
               gospell
               .
               And
               consequentlie
               all
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               newe
               testament
               ,
               either
               to
               be
               Apocripha
               ,
               or
               at
               least
               not
               to
               be
               anie
               way
               necessarie
               to
               saluation
               .
               This
               man
               thou
               seest
               (
               iudicious
               reader
               )
               to
               be
               as
               little
               a
               friende
               to
               scripture
               as
               to
               traditions
               ,
               seeing
               to
               impugne
               the
               one
               ,
               he
               destroyeth
               the
               other
               .
               Is
               this
               your
               sworde
               Mr.
               Minister
               wherewith
               you
               would
               pearce
               and
               wounde
               
               your
               aduersary
               ?
               no
               wise
               man
               I
               thinke
               but
               will
               say
               it
               was
               made
               to
               cutt
               your
               owne
               throate
               with
               ,
               rather
               then
               to
               drawe
               one
               droppe
               of
               blood
               of
               your
               aduersarie
               .
               But
               you
               will
               bringe
               sharper
               weapons
               out
               of
               the
               fathers
               .
               You
               should
               remember
               that
               the
               testimonies
               out
               of
               the
               fathers
               ,
               should
               be
               explications
               of
               the
               scriptures
               cited
               for
               the
               same
               purpose
               ,
               and
               not
               theire
               single
               sayinges
               .
               But
               lett
               vs
               take
               them
               as
               they
               are
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             4.
             
          
           
             
               We
               know
               not
               the
               disposition
               of
               our
               saluation
               ,
            
             
             
               from
               anie
               other
               then
               from
               them
               ,
               by
               whome
               the
               ghospell
               came
               to
               vs
               ,
               which
               first
               they
               preached
               ,
               and
               after
               by
               the
               will
               of
               God
               deliuered
               it
               vnto
               vs
               in
               the
               holy
               scriptures
               ,
               to
               be
               the
               foundation
               and
               pillar
               of
               our
               faith
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               authoritie
               hath
               been
               once
               or
               twice
               satisfied
               before
               ,
               and
               it
               saith
               not
               ;
               they
               wrote
               all
               they
               preached
               ;
               but
               the
               same
               doctrine
               which
               they
               preached
               ,
               they
               writt
               ,
               and
               not
               a
               diuerse
               or
               contrarie
               ,
               as
               some
               heretikes
               fabulouslie
               taught
               ,
               against
               whome
               S.
               Ireneus
               there
               writeth
               ;
               and
               this
               is
               the
               true
               meaninge
               of
               that
               place
               ,
               as
               anie
               one
               that
               looketh
               thereon
               will
               easilie
               see
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             5.
             
          
           
             
               These
               thinges
               are
               chosen
               to
               be
               written
               ,
            
             
             
               which
               are
               sufficient
               for
               the
               saluation
               of
               the
               beleeuers
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               This
               is
               true
               and
               not
               against
               the
               catholike
               doctrine
               of
               traditions
               .
               For
               he
               that
               beleeueth
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               beleeueth
               sufficient
               for
               his
               saluation
               ,
               if
               he
               haue
               not
               repugnancie
               in
               his
               minde
               not
               to
               beleeue
               anie
               more
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             a
             manifest
             defection
             from
             faith
             ,
             and
             
             the
             crime
             of
             pride
             ,
             either
             for
             to
             refuse
             anie
             thinge
             of
             those
             that
             are
             written
             ,
             or
             to
             bringe
             in
             that
             which
             is
             not
             written
             ,
             as
             our
             Sauiour
             Iesus
             Christe
             saith
             ,
             my
             sheepe
             heare
             my
             voyce
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               an
               equall
               crimē
               to
               denie
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               and
               to
               bringe
               in
               anie
               thinge
               not
               written
               ,
               contrarie
               to
               that
               which
               is
               written
               ,
               as
               the
               Arrians
               did
               who
               made
               Christe
               to
               be
               a
               creature
               ,
               different
               in
               substance
               from
               his
               father
               ,
               contrarie
               to
               that
               which
               is
               written
               in
               manie
               places
               .
               And
               this
               is
               S.
               Basills
               playne
               doctrine
               ,
               which
               is
               nothinge
               for
               your
               purpose
               ,
               nor
               against
               me
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             ANTITHESIS
             2.
             
          
           
             The
             catholike
             churche
             ought
             not
             to
             beleeue
             these
             traditions
             which
             the
             papists
             say
             the
             Apostles
             deliuered
             by
             worde
             of
             mouth
             onlie
             ,
             in
             the
             same
             degree
             of
             faith
             with
             these
             thinges
             that
             are
             written
             .
          
        
         
           
             Proofe
             1.
             
          
           
             Esay
             8.
             20.
             
             To
             the
             lawe
             and
             the
             testaments
             ,
             if
             they
             speake
             not
             accordinge
             to
             this
             worde
             ,
             it
             is
             because
             there
             is
             no
             light
             in
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             That
             which
             speaketh
             not
             accordinge
             to
             the
             lawe
             and
             testimonie
             hath
             no
             truth
             ,
             and
             is
             not
             to
             be
             credited
             as
             the
             lawe
             :
             But
             papists
             traditions
             are
             so
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               answere
               to
               your
               argument
               shall
               be
               to
               returne
               it
               vppon
               you
               in
               this
               manner
               .
               That
               which
               speaketh
               accordinge
               to
               the
               lawe
               and
               testimonie
               is
               true
               ,
               and
               is
               to
               be
               credited
               as
               the
               lawe
               it selfe
               .
               But
               such
               are
               catholike
               traditions
               .
               Ergo.
               
            
          
        
         
           
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             Gall.
             1.
             8.
             9.
             
             But
             thoughe
             we
             or
             an
             Angell
             from
             heauen
             preach
             anie
             other
             gospell
             vnto
             you
             ,
             then
             that
             which
             we
             haue
             preached
             ,
             lett
             him
             be
             accursed
             :
             as
             we
             sayd
             before
             ,
             so
             say
             I
             nowe
             againe
             ,
             if
             anie
             man
             preach
             anie
             other
             gospell
             vnto
             you
             then
             you
             haue
             receiued
             ,
             lett
             him
             be
             accursed
             .
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             That
             which
             is
             not
             the
             same
             but
             another
             ,
             besides
             that
             which
             Paule
             preached
             ,
             is
             not
             to
             be
             credited
             but
             accursed
             .
             But
             popish
             traditions
             are
             so
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               I
               must
               needes
               say
               that
               the
               catholike
               doctrine
               shoulde
               be
               verie
               weake
               indeede
               ▪
               if
               it
               should
               be
               ouerthrowne
               with
               such
               lame
               and
               limpinge
               arguments
               ,
               that
               haue
               not
               so
               much
               as
               one
               good
               legge
               to
               stand
               vppon
               .
               And
               what
               shall
               we
               say
               then
               of
               the
               protestants
               doctrine
               ,
               that
               is
               supported
               by
               such
               bean-strawe
               pillars
               ?
               Your
               maior
               were
               it
               true
               ,
               woulde
               conclude
               all
               the
               Apostles
               writinges
               besisides
               S.
               Paules
               to
               be
               accursed
               ,
               at
               leaste
               in
               all
               such
               thinge●
               as
               are
               not
               found
               in
               S.
               Paule
               :
               Your
               minor
               may
               as
               easilie
               be
               affirmed
               of
               S.
               Iohns
               Gospell
               or
               anie
               other
               booke
               of
               the
               bible
               .
               So
               that
               your
               conclusion
               is
               like
               to
               be
               verie
               protestanticall
               .
               See
               therfore
               howe
               stronglie
               you
               haue
               prooued
               your
               protestant
               position
               ,
               or
               antithesis
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               howe
               deepelie
               you
               haue
               wounded
               your
               aduersarie
               .
               Euer
               so
               blinde
               may
               the
               enemies
               of
               gods
               churche
               be
               ,
               to
               impugne
               it
               in
               this
               manner
               ,
               so
               longe
               as
               they
               doe
               impugne
               it
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             2.
             
             Petri.
             1.
             18.
             19.
             
             And
             this
             voice
             which
             
             came
             from
             heauen
             ,
             we
             heard
             when
             we
             were
             with
             him
             in
             the
             holy
             Mount.
             We
             haue
             also
             a
             more
             sure
             worde
             of
             prophecie
             ,
             whereunto
             you
             doe
             well
             that
             you
             take
             heede
             as
             vnto
             a
             light
             that
             shineth
             in
             a
             darke
             place
             ,
             vntill
             the
             day
             dawne
             ,
             and
             the
             day-starre
             arise
             in
             your
             harts
             .
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             That
             which
             is
             more
             firme
             and
             sure
             ,
             then
             reuelation
             from
             heauen
             ,
             not
             then
             written
             ,
             is
             more
             to
             be
             credited
             then
             anie
             thinge
             nowe
             not
             written
             :
             but
             the
             scriptures
             are
             such
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               Doe
               you
               thinke
               that
               the
               writinge
               of
               anie
               reuelation
               maketh
               it
               more
               firme
               ?
               or
               that
               it
               receiueth
               anie
               increase
               of
               authoritie
               thereby
               ?
               you
               seeme
               to
               be
               of
               this
               opinion
               ,
               but
               it
               is
               moste
               absurde
               to
               thinke
               .
               For
               the
               authoritie
               all
               reuelations
               haue
               ,
               is
               from
               God
               almightie
               ,
               and
               not
               from
               the
               writinge
               of
               them
               in
               paper
               or
               parchment
               .
               And
               therefore
               the
               prophecie
               S.
               Peter
               speaketh
               of
               (
               whether
               it
               were
               written
               or
               vnwritten
               ,
               for
               he
               saith
               not
               it
               was
               written
               ,
               but
               rather
               the
               contrarie
               ,
               tearminge
               it
               a
               propheticall
               speach
               or
               sermon
               )
               is
               sayde
               by
               him
               to
               be
               more
               firme
               then
               the
               testimonie
               receiued
               in
               the
               holy
               mount
               ,
               because
               that
               had
               been
               auncientlie
               promulgated
               ,
               credited
               and
               receiued
               ;
               whereas
               this
               had
               neuer
               yett
               bin
               preached
               or
               proposed
               to
               be
               beleeued
               ;
               and
               therefore
               no
               maruell
               though
               that
               were
               esteemed
               more
               firme
               then
               this
               hitherto
               hadd
               been
               ;
               not
               because
               this
               had
               not
               been
               written
               ,
               but
               because
               it
               had
               not
               been
               preached
               or
               published
               att
               all
               till
               that
               tyme.
               
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             Iohn
             .
             5.
             36.
             37.
             38.
             39.
             
             But
             I
             haue
             greater
             witnes
             then
             that
             of
             Iohn
             ,
             for
             the
             workes
             
             which
             the
             Father
             hath
             geuen
             me
             to
             finishe
             ,
             the
             same
             workes
             that
             I
             doe
             ,
             beare
             witnes
             of
             me
             ,
             that
             the
             Father
             hath
             sent
             me
             .
             And
             the
             Father
             himselfe
             which
             hath
             sent
             me
             ,
             hath
             borne
             witnes
             of
             me
             ;
             Yee
             haue
             neither
             heard
             his
             voice
             at
             anie
             tyme
             ,
             nor
             seene
             his
             shape
             .
             And
             yee
             haue
             not
             his
             worde
             abiding●
             in
             you
             ,
             for
             whome
             he
             sent
             ,
             him
             yee
             beleeue
             not
             .
             Searche
             the
             scriptures
             for
             in
             them
             yee
             haue
             eternall
             life
             ,
             and
             they
             are
             they
             ,
             which
             testifie
             of
             me
             .
          
        
         
           
             Argument
             .
          
           
             That
             which
             is
             greater
             then
             the
             testimonie
             of
             Iohn
             is
             more
             to
             be
             credited
             ,
             then
             an●e
             thinge
             not
             written
             :
             But
             the
             scriptures
             are
             greater
             then
             the
             testimonie
             of
             Iohn
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               The
               farther
               you
               goe
               the
               more
               foolishe
               and
               impertinent
               still
               you
               are
               ;
               vppon
               what
               ground
               doe
               you
               assume
               in
               your
               minor
               ?
               
                 But
                 the
                 holy
                 scriptures
                 are
                 greater
                 then
                 ●he
                 testimonie
                 of
                 Iohn
                 ?
              
               not
               out
               of
               the
               texts
               of
               of
               scripture
               cited
               by
               you
               :
               for
               they
               say
               no
               such
               thing
               .
               They
               say
               that
               ,
               indeede
               ,
               of
               the
               workes
               of
               Christe
               ,
               and
               of
               his
               fathers
               testimonie
               ,
               which
               notwithstandinge
               were
               noe
               where
               then
               written
               ;
               but
               of
               the
               scripture
               they
               say
               no
               such
               thinge
               .
               And
               therefore
               your
               argument
               is
               as
               fitlie
               founded
               vppon
               these
               text
               ▪
               of
               scripture
               as
               those
               are
               which
               Pruritanu
               ▪
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               name
               of
               your
               felowes
               ,
               the
               author
               of
               which
               pamplett
               had
               he
               seene
               your
               booke
               ,
               might
               haue
               increased
               his
               not
               a
               little
               out
               of
               it
               .
               As
               with
               this
               for
               example
               .
               
                 I
                 have
                 greater
                 witnes
                 then
                 Iohn
                 ▪
                 ●r●●
                 ther
                 are
                 noe
                 traditions
              
               ;
               or
               traditiōs
               are
               not
               to
               be
               beleeued
               equallie
               with
               scriptures
               .
               For
               amongst
               all
               his
               I
               knowe
               not
               whether
               there
               be
               one
               more
               impertinent
               then
               this
               .
               But
               you
               will
               thinke
               to
               make
               some
               force
               out
               of
               the
               
               laste
               sentence
               :
               search
               the
               scriptures
               &c.
               but
               with
               as
               much
               probabilitie
               as
               out
               of
               the
               other
               .
               For
               were
               it
               as
               you
               read
               :
               
                 For
                 in
                 them
                 yee
                 haue
                 eternall
                 life
                 ,
              
               and
               not
               :
               
                 For
                 in
                 them
                 you
                 thinke
                 to
                 haue
                 eternall
                 life
              
               Which
               is
               the
               true
               texte
               ▪
               yett
               haue
               you
               thence
               no
               other
               thing
               then
               that
               the
               old
               testament
               ,
               (
               for
               of
               that
               onlie
               our
               Sauiour
               speaketh
               )
               doth
               testifie
               of
               him
               .
               Which
               how
               it
               either
               prooueth
               your
               Antithesis
               ,
               or
               improoueth
               my
               position
               ,
               iudge
               you
               by
               this
               consequence
               .
               The
               old
               testament
               in
               which
               the
               Iewes
               thought
               to
               haue
               eternall
               life
               beareth
               witnes
               of
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               ;
               Ergo
               traditions
               are
               not
               of
               equall
               authoritie
               with
               scripture
               .
               Doe
               doctors
               in
               Oxeforde
               vse
               to
               make
               such
               consequences
               ?
               if
               they
               doe
               I
               dare
               say
               it
               is
               the
               paine
               of
               sinne
               and
               heresie
               ,
               for
               the
               which
               they
               are
               depriued
               of
               the
               verie
               light
               of
               naturall
               reason
               and
               discourse
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             
               Whatsoeuer
               is
               confirmed
               by
               the
               authoritie
               of
            
             
             
               diuine
               scriptures
               which
               in
               the
               churche
               are
               called
               canonical
               ,
               is
               without
               al
               doubte
               to
               be
               beleeued
               .
               But
               you
               may
               beleeue
               or
               not
               beleeue
               other
               witnesses
               or
               testimonies
               (
               which
               men
               persuade
               you
               to
               beleeue
               )
               as
               much
               as
               they
               deserue
               or
               not
               deserue
               to
               bee
               credited
               by
               the
               force
               yee
               finde
               in
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               dare
               stand
               to
               this
               authoritie
               ,
               I
               will
               euidentlie
               prooue
               against
               you
               ,
               that
               you
               are
               to
               beleeue
               purgatory
               ,
               prayers
               for
               the
               dead
               ,
               the
               gua●de
               of
               Angells
               ,
               and
               diuers
               other
               thinges
               which
               you
               condemne
               in
               the
               catholikes
               .
               For
               these
               thinges
               are
               euidentlie
               confirmed
               in
               those
               scriptures
               which
               the
               churche
               in
               S.
               August
               ▪
               tyme
               did
               call
               canonicall
               as
               he
               witnesseth
               .
               Further
               the
               bookes
               receiued
               by
               your selfe
               for
               canonicall
               ,
               doe
               confirme
               the
               authoritie
               of
               traditions
               ,
               as
               is
               playne
               out
               of
               the
               second
               Epistle
               to
               the
               Thessalo
               :
               cited
               before
               .
               Againe
               it
               is
               not
               onlie
               men
               ,
               but
               gods
               churche
               ,
               and
               consequentlie
               God
               himselfe
               by
               her
               ▪
               
               that
               perswadeth
               vs
               to
               beleeue
               traditions
               ,
               and
               therefore
               this
               your
               argument
               is
               as
               foolishe
               as
               the
               rest
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             PILK
             .
             Proofe
             .
          
           
             Abraham
             when
             he
             was
             desired
             to
             send
             Lazarus
             ,
             answered
             ,
             they
             haue
             Moises
             and
             the
             prophetts
             ,
             if
             they
             will
             not
             beleeue
             them
             ,
             nether
             will
             they
             heare
             the
             dead
             raysed
             vppe
             .
             Christe
             bringeth
             him
             speakinge
             in
             a
             parable
             to
             shewe
             that
             he
             woulde
             haue
             more
             faith
             geuen
             to
             the
             scriptures
             ,
             then
             if
             the
             dead
             should
             re●iue
             :
             Moreouer
             Paul
             (
             and
             when
             I
             mention
             Paule
             I
             mean
             Christe
             for
             he
             knewe
             his
             minde
             )
             preferreth
             scriptures
             before
             Angells
             that
             descend
             ,
             and
             that
             in
             great
             congruitie
             ;
             For
             an
             Angell
             thoughe
             verie
             greate
             ,
             yett
             are
             they
             seruants
             and
             ministers
             ,
             but
             all
             scriptures
             came
             vnto
             vs
             not
             from
             seruants
             ,
             but
             from
             God
             ,
             Lord
             of
             all
             .
             Chrisostome
             in
             cap.
             1.
             ad
             Gallatas
             .
          
           
             
               CHAMP
               .
            
             
               There
               is
               no
               end
               of
               your
               impertinencies
               and
               absurd
               parologismes
               .
               Christ
               woulde
               haue
               more
               faith
               geuen
               to
               the
               scriptures
               then
               if
               the
               dead
               shoulde
               reuiue
               say
               you
               .
               Ergo
               what
               ?
               Ergo
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               knoweth
               not
               what
               he
               saith
               .
               Certainlie
               this
               is
               the
               best
               consequence
               anie
               man
               can
               make
               of
               this
               testimonie
               ,
               as
               it
               is
               cited
               by
               him
               .
               Againe
               S.
               Paule
               yea
               our
               Sauiour
               Christ
               preferre
               scriptures
               before
               angells
               ,
               that
               shoulde
               teach
               anie
               thinge
               ,
               against
               that
               which
               the
               Apostles
               had
               taught
               ,
               say
               you
               ,
               because
               the
               angells
               are
               ministers
               ,
               but
               the
               scriptures
               came
               to
               vs
               from
               God
               the
               Lord
               of
               all
               .
               Ergo
               traditions
               are
               not
               to
               be
               beleeued
               equallie
               with
               scriptures
               .
               A
               learned
               consequence
               I
               wisse
               ,
               and
               like
               the
               rest
               of
               your
               doctrine
               ,
               hauinge
               as
               much
               truth
               and
               connexion
               in
               it
               as
               hath
               this
               .
               God
               is
               in
               heauen
               .
               Ergo
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               is
               a
               Roman
               Catholike
               .
            
             
             
               Nowe
               looke
               backe
               I
               pray
               thee
               iudicious
               reader
               vpon
               the
               catholicke
               positions
               sett
               downe
               in
               the
               Manuall
               ,
               with
               the
               proofes
               thereof
               out
               of
               the
               scriptures
               ,
               and
               compare
               them
               with
               Mr.
               Pilkintons
               Antitheses
               ,
               and
               the
               proofes
               thereof
               ,
               and
               passe
               thy
               impartiall
               iudgment
               on
               them
               ,
               whether
               of
               them
               haue
               better
               grounde
               in
               holy
               scripture
               .
            
             
               Thus
               farr
               I
               haue
               gone
               with
               your
               Parallel
               Mr.
               Pilkinton
               examininge
               the
               weight
               and
               truth
               thereof
               and
               in
               a
               fewe
               leaues
               haue
               founde
               so
               manie
               absurdities
               falsities
               and
               impertinencies
               ,
               that
               your
               whole
               booke
               seemeth
               to
               me
               to
               be
               no
               other
               thing
               then
               a
               deformed
               lumpe
               or
               masse
               of
               mouldinge
               past
               ,
               which
               maketh
               not
               anie
               resistance
               ,
               but
               is
               without
               all
               difficultie
               ,
               cutt
               in
               peeces
               ,
               pearced
               ,
               or
               thrust
               thoroughe
               ,
               euen
               with
               euerie
               wooden
               knife
               ,
               or
               other
               instrument
               .
               For
               if
               I
               had
               no
               more
               difficultie
               to
               coppie
               and
               transcribe
               ▪
               your
               wordes
               ,
               out
               of
               your
               booke
               into
               my
               paper
               that
               they
               might
               goe
               to
               the
               printe
               with
               my
               reply
               ,
               then
               I
               had
               to
               confute
               them
               ,
               you
               shoulde
               not
               haue
               been
               so
               manie
               dayes
               without
               your
               answere
               .
            
             
               I
               goe
               no
               further
               with
               you
               in
               discussinge
               your
               doctrine
               ,
               because
               I
               will
               not
               bestowe
               good
               howers
               in
               such
               vnnecessarie
               and
               vnprofitable
               labour
               ,
               learninge
               of
               your selfe
               in
               the
               laste
               page
               of
               your
               booke
               ,
               that
               as
               to
               knowe
               the
               sea
               water
               to
               be
               salte
               it
               is
               not
               necessarie
               to
               drinke
               vppe
               the
               whole
               sea
               ,
               or
               to
               knowe
               an
               earthen
               statua
               guilded
               ouer
               ,
               not
               to
               be
               gold
               ,
               it
               is
               sufficient
               to
               scrape
               of
               one
               peece
               onlie
               of
               the
               guildinge
               .
               So
               for
               anie
               man
               to
               discouer
               the
               absurditie
               ,
               and
               impertinencie
               of
               your
               booke
               ,
               it
               is
               not
               necessarie
               he
               shoulde
               goe
               thoroughe
               it
               whollie
               ,
               but
               it
               abundantlie
               sufficeth
               to
               haue
               examined
               one
               parte
               thereof
               onlie
               .
               I
               would
               not
               lett
               it
               goe
               whollie
               without
               refutation
               ,
               least
               you
               shoulde
               haue
               interpreted
               my
               silence
               to
               haue
               proceeded
               from
               the
               difficultie
               there
               had
               been
               to
               confute
               your
               doctrine
               ;
               and
               least
               your
               lesse
               skilfull
               reader
               might
               thinke
               you
               had
               sayd
               something
               to
               the
               purpose
               ,
               in
               answere
               of
               the
               catholike
               doctrine
               
               or
               proofe
               of
               your
               owne
               .
               I
               woulde
               not
               goe
               anie
               further
               in
               mine
               answer
               ,
               for
               the
               reason
               alreadie
               sett
               downe
               out
               of
               your
               owne
               wordes
               .
               If
               you
               please
               to
               lay
               downe
               your
               wilfulnes
               to
               defend
               your
               errours
               ,
               and
               with
               some
               in
               differencie
               to
               consider
               the
               sinceritie
               of
               the
               catholike
               truthe
               ,
               I
               make
               no
               doubte
               but
               by
               this
               litle
               which
               hath
               been
               sayde
               ,
               in
               reply
               to
               your
               answere
               ,
               you
               will
               see
               the
               vanitie
               of
               your
               doctrine
               deliuered
               in
               this
               booke
               of
               yours
               .
               But
               if
               you
               persiste
               in
               your
               obstinate
               will
               ,
               not
               to
               geue
               eare
               to
               the
               truth
               ,
               you
               may
               well
               be
               vanquished
               and
               ouercome
               (
               as
               S.
               Hierome
               saith
               )
               but
               you
               will
               neuer
               be
               perswaded
               .
               
               Neither
               is
               my
               paynes
               herein
               bestowed
               so
               much
               out
               of
               hope
               to
               proffitt
               you
               ,
               whom
               obstinacie
               may
               haue
               made
               incurable
               as
               to
               helpe
               others
               that
               embrace
               errour
               and
               falsitie
               ,
               rather
               out
               of
               ignorance
               then
               malice
               or
               obstinacie
               .
            
          
        
         
           FINIS
           .
        
      
    
     
       
         
           The
           Errata
           .
        
         
           Pag.
           3.
           line
           1.
           to
           Mr.
           Abbat
           ,
           for
           ,
           
             three
             whole
             yeares
             I
             appealed
          
           ,
           reade
           ,
           
             three
             whole
             yeares
             since
             I
             appealed
             .
          
           pag.
           5.
           l.
           11.
           perferring
           ,
           preferring
           .
           p.
           15.
           l.
           6.
           
           This
           in
           ,
           This
           is
           .
           pag.
           20.
           l.
           30.
           is
           hee
           ,
           hee
           is
           .
           pag.
           41.
           l.
           29.
           depise
           ,
           despise
           .
           If
           there
           be
           any
           other
           ,
           they
           are
           so
           smale
           that
           none
           in
           reading
           ,
           but
           can
           correct
           them
           .
        
      
       
         
         
           APPROBATIONES
           .
        
         
           
             LIbrum
             D.
             Antonij
             Champnei
             Doctoris
             Sorbonici
             inscriptum
             ,
             
               Maister
               Pilkintons
               Parallela
               Disparalleld
            
             legi
             ,
             in
             quo
             nihil
             inuenio
             quod
             contra
             sanctam
             fidem
             Catholicam
             Romanam
             ,
             aut
             bonos
             more
             's
             sit
             .
             Quare
             cùm
             hominis
             haeretici
             ineptias
             apertè
             detegat
             ,
             &
             auctoritatem
             Ecclesiae
             Catholicae
             Romanae
             in
             definiendis
             fidei
             Controuersijs
             propugnet
             ,
             vtiliter
             praelo
             committi
             posse
             censeo
             .
          
           
             
               Audomari
               
                 23.
                 
                 Decemb.
                 1619.
                 
              
            
             
               Ioannes
               Floidus
               Societatis
               Iesu
               S.
               T.
               Professor
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             VIso
             hoc
             testimonio
             Reuerendi
             Patris
             Ioannis
             Floidi
             societatis
             Iesu
             S.
             Theolog.
             Professoris
             qui
             Anglicum
             hunc
             libellum
             visitauit
             prout
             superius
             habetur
             ,
             Reuerēdiss
             .
             Dom.
             Episcopus
             Audomarens
             .
             permittit
             vt
             typis
             mandetur
             .
             Datum
             Audomari
             ,
             Anno
             millesimo
             sexcentesimo
             decimo
             nono
             ,
             mensis
             Decembris
             die
             vigesima
             octaua
             .
          
           
             D●
             mandato
             Reuerendiss
             .
             Dom.
             Praefati
             ,
             
               A.
               Deleau
               Secret
               ,
            
          
        
      
       
         
         
           Faultes
           escaped
           in
           the
           text
           .
        
         
           IN
           the
           first
           line
           of
           the
           Epistle
           reade
           ,
           fower
           yeares
           since
           .
           p.
           11.
           l.
           3.
           r.
           positions
           .
           p.
           13.
           l.
           22.
           r.
           the.
           p.
           24.
           l.
           19.
           r.
           your
           .
           p.
           30.
           l.
           4.
           after
           session
           add
           .
           6.
           p.
           35.
           l.
           13.
           r.
           Nilo
           .
           p
           37.
           l.
           7.
           r.
           thinges
           .
           p.
           47.
           l.
           13.
           after
           councells
           add
           which
           .
           p.
           55.
           l.
           22.
           r.
           redundant
           .
           p.
           66.
           l.
           5.
           after
           geue
           add
           an
           .
           p.
           74.
           l.
           19.
           after
           that
           ,
           add
           which
           he
           affirmeth
           himselfe
           .
           p.
           90.
           l.
           31.
           after
           veluet
           ,
           add
           by
           another
           .
           p.
           105.
           l.
           21.
           r.
           Bethanen
           .
           p.
           124.
           l.
           33.
           r.
           is
           .
           p.
           127.
           l.
           20.
           r.
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           .
           p.
           126.
           l.
           8.
           r.
           an
           vnskilfull
           .
           p.
           127.
           l.
           19.
           r.
           promeretur
           .
           p.
           132.
           l.
           7.
           after
           vnles
           ,
           add
           therefore
           .
           p.
           134.
           l.
           11.
           r.
           For
           he
           saith
           not
           my
           sheepe
           reade
           .
           p.
           146.
           l.
           16.
           r.
           dwell
           .
           p.
           147.
           l.
           30.
           r.
           l
           and
           the
           father
           are
           one
           ,
           doth
           not
           fully
           prooue
           the.
           p.
           156.
           l.
           2.
           
           For
           like
           as
           reade
           litle
           .
           p.
           174
           l.
           1.
           r.
           your
           .
           p.
           185.
           l.
           34.
           r.
           ordained
           .
           p.
           205.
           l.
           14.
           r.
           do
           to
           .
           Ibid.
           l.
           15.
           r.
           hange
           theire
           .
           p.
           209.
           l.
           last
           .
           r.
           For
           ,
           he
           or
           .
           r.
           he
           at
           .
           p.
           210.
           l.
           31.
           r.
           This
           is
           .
           p.
           215.
           l.
           16.
           r.
           So
           to
           .
        
         
           
             In
             the
             margent
             .
          
           
             Page
             80.
             against
             these
             wordes
             looke
             backe
             ,
             wanteth
             this
             marke
             †
             pag.
             112.
             in
             the
             middest
             of
             the
             page
             wanteth
             ,
             de
             vtilitate
             ●redendi
             cap.
             6.
             pag.
             128.
             against
             the
             line
             14.
             wanteth
             libro
             2.
             de
             verbo
             Dei.
             cap.
             14.
             pag.
             136.
             against
             the
             line
             2.
             wanteth
             epistola
             prima
             ad
             Simpronianum
             .
          
           
           
           
           
           
        
      
       
         Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
         
           Notes for div A18391-e150
           
             Ioan.
             3.
             18
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e460
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             1.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Aug.
             lib.
             2
             de
             doctr
             .
             christ
             .
             c.
             6.
             
          
           
             Cont.
             Crescon
             .
             lib.
             1.
             cap.
             33.
             
          
           
             Lib
             2.
             d●
             doct
             .
             chri
             .
             cap.
             5.
             
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             2.
             
          
           
             
               Antithesis
               Ireneus
               lib.
               3.
               c.
            
             1
             ▪
             
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             3.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Epiphan
             .
             haeresi
             76.
             
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             4.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Aug.
             lib
             2
             de
             Bapt.
             c●nt
             ▪
             D●n●tist
             .
             c.
             3.
             
          
           
             Aug.
             Lib.
             1.
             cont
             .
             Crescen
             .
             cap.
             33.
             
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             5.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Aug.
             in
             Psal
             .
             39.
             
          
           
             
               Thesis
               papist
            
             .
             6.
             ▪
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Athana
             .
             in
             epist
             ad
             so●●●
             .
             vitā
             agentes
             .
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             7.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Cypriàn
             .
             de
             vnitat
             .
          
           
             Contra
             Iouinianum
             .
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             8.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Cypr
             cited
             by
             S.
             Aug.
             lib
             2.
             de
             bap
             .
             contr
             .
             Dona●
             .
             c.
             2
             
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             9.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Aug.
             de
             vera
             relig
             .
             cap.
             55.
             
          
           
             C●t
             .
             Faust
             .
             lib.
             20.
             cap.
             21.
             
          
           
             Thesis
             papist
             .
             10.
             
          
           
             Antithesis
             Aug.
             lib.
             22
             de
             ci●
             .
             Dei
             c.
             10.
             
          
           
             
               Aug.
               Psal
            
             .
             108
             ▪
             
          
           
             Aug.
             de
             ciuit
             .
             lib.
             22.
             c.
             10.
             
          
           
             pag.
             12.
             
          
           
             Pilk
             .
             page
             35.
             
          
           
             Luth
             in
             prafat
             .
             assertionis
             art
             .
             à
             Leone
             damnator
             .
             De
             seruo
             arbitrio
             .
          
           
             Colloquiū
             Altemb
             .
             fol.
             154.
             
          
           
             Art.
             31
             ,
          
           
             Cap.
             12.
             
          
           
             
               Instit
               .
               li.
               4.
               c
            
             14.
             
             §
             6.
             
             &
             17.
             
          
           
             Luther
             in
             aser
             .
             2.
             ar
             .
          
           
             Luth
             assert
             .
             àr
             .
             36
             ▪
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e3140
           
             Epistola
             26
             ad
             Pammachium
             .
          
           
             Hosiut
             confes
             92.
             pag.
             38●
             .
             post
             principium
             .
          
           
             Cōe
             .
             Trid.
             sess
             .
             4.
             
          
           
             Hooker
             li.
             3
             pa.
             146.
             &
             lib.
             1.
             p.
             86.
             with
             manie
             moe
             cited
             in
             the
             protestāt
             Apol.
             p.
             620.
             
          
           
             Linda
             panopl
             li.
             4.
             cap.
             6.
             
             Bellar.
             li.
             4.
             de
             verbo
             non
             scripto
             .
             c.
             7
             &
             9.
             
             Peresius
             de
             tradit
             .
          
           
             Soto
             con●
             .
             Brentium
             .
             lib.
             2.
             cap.
             68.
             
          
           
             Athan●
             .
             orat
             .
             1.
             cont
             .
          
           
             Cusan
             epi.
             2.
             
             &
             7.
             
             Bellar.
             de
             verbo
             lib.
             4.
             c.
             7.
             
             Baron
             anno
             .
             53.
             num
             .
             11.
             
          
           
             Stapl.
             l.
             9.
             de
             princip
             doct
             c.
             1.
             
             Hosius
             de
             auth
             scrip
             .
             l
             3
             p.
             530
             Greg.
             valent
             .
          
           
             Luc.
             10.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e3660
           
             Theophil
             .
             in
             l.
             
          
           
             Chrisost
             .
             hom
             .
             8.
             ad
             Hebr.
             
          
           
             Aug.
             de
             doctr
             .
             christ
             .
             li.
             2
             cap.
             9.
             
          
           
             Lib.
             6.
             in
             princip
             .
             praefat
             .
          
           
             Euseb
             l.
             5.
             
             Hist
             .
             Eccl.
             c.
             19.
             20.
             
          
           
             Tert.
             de
             praescript
             .
             cap.
             17.
             18.
             19.
             
          
           
             2.
             
             Tim.
             3.
             
          
           
             Matt.
             22.
             32.
             
             Act.
             15.
             16.
             
             Act.
             18.
             28.
             
          
           
             Epist
             ad
             Scrap
             .
          
           
             Tom.
             2.
             de
             vnitate
             cap.
             16.
             
          
           
             Aug.
             epist
             .
             193.
             
          
           
             Theod
             lib.
             1.
             cap.
             7.
             
          
           
             Matt.
             26.
             10.
             20.
             23.
             
          
           
             1.
             
             Ti.
             3.
             15
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e4710
           
             pag.
             45.
             
          
           
             Canus
             loc
             .
             com
             lib.
             3.
             cap.
             3.
             
             Text.
             de
             I.
             cap.
             47.
             
             Idem
             de
             praescript
             .
          
           
             Lirinensis
             contra
             propha
             .
             haeresum
             nouationes
             .
          
           
             Eusebius
             li.
             5.
             c.
             28.
             
             Athanas
             .
             ●rat
             .
             cont
             .
             Arrianos
             .
          
           
             Hiere
             .
             in
             c.
             1.
             
             Aug.
             
          
           
             Hierom
             in
             cap.
             1.
             ad
             Galas
             .
             Tert
             de
             praescript
             .
          
           
             Lib.
             de
             i●stificat
             .
             cap.
             vlt.
             
          
           
             2.
             
             Petr.
             5.
             16.
             
          
           
             Hosius
             de
             expresse
             Dei
             verbo
             .
             pa.
             642.
             
          
           
             Cusanus
             ad
             Boh●mos
             epi.
             7.
             
          
           
             Ireneus
             lib.
             4.
             c.
             3●
             
          
           
             Anton.
             in
             sum
             .
             part
             .
             3.
             cap.
             5.
             in
             initio
             .
          
           
             Hosius
             d●
             expresso
             Dei
             verbo
             .
          
           
             Matt.
             1●
             .
          
           
             Obscuritie
             of
             scriptures
             acknoledged
             .
          
           
             Aug.
             cont
             .
             Cresc
             .
             li.
             2.
             cap.
             31.
             
             Tom.
             7.
             
          
           
             Nehem.
             8.
             8.
             
          
           
             Conc.
             Cres
             .
             cap.
             31.
             
          
           
             Origenes
             Hom.
             25.
             in
             Matt.
             circa
             medium
             .
          
           
             Hom.
             13.
             in
             Gen.
             Lib.
             de
             Trin.
             p.
             9.
             
          
           
             
               Lib
               3.
               d●
               verbo
               c.
            
             3
             ▪
             
          
           
             Distinc
             37
             cap.
             relat
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e6780
           
             Optatus
             l.
             5
             c●ntr
             .
             Parm.
             
          
           
             I●
             .
             16.
             13.
             
          
           
             In
             Psal
             .
             21.
             expo
             .
             2
             prope
             finē
             .
          
           
             Ambr.
             de
             fide
             ad
             Gratia.
             l.
             1.
             cap.
             4.
             
          
           
             Chris
             .
             33.
             in
             acta
             prope
             finē
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e7600
           
             In
             1.
             
             S●ns
             .
             q.
             1.
             art
             .
             3.
             
          
           
             De
             vtilitate
             credendi
             .
          
           
             Prolog
             .
             in
             magist
             .
             q
             3.
             art
             .
             2.
             
             Aug
             6.
             confess
             .
             cap.
             5.
             
          
           
             Cont.
             epist
             .
             Funda
             .
             cap.
             14.
             
          
           
             Psal
             .
             119.
             105.
             2.
             
             ●
             Pet.
             1.
             19.
             
             Tract
             .
             35.
             in
             Ioan.
             
          
           
             Io.
             7.
             17.
             
          
           
             Stewchus
             ●●●mopera
             in
             princip
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e8230
           
             Deut.
             4.
             2.
             
             Re●e
             22.
             18.
             19.
             
          
           
             Aqui.
             in
             1.
             
             Tim.
             6.
             lect
             .
             1.
             
          
           
             1.
             
             Cor.
             4.
             6
             
          
           
             De
             bono
             vi●luitatis
             cap.
             1.
             
          
           
             Bellar.
             de
             verbo
             lib.
             4.
             cap
             12.
             
          
           
             Staplet
             .
             l.
             7.
             princ
             .
             cap.
             1.
             
          
           
             Lib.
             6.
             
             Sto.
             
          
           
             Aug.
             supr
             .
          
           
             Vincent
             .
             cap.
             41.
             
          
           
             In
             the
             booke
             before
             c●●ed
             .
          
           
             Bell.
             li.
             〈◊〉
             de
             Sacra
             .
             cap.
             25.
             
          
           
             Driedo
             l.
             4.
             c.
             4.
             de
             dogm
             .
             Aug.
             con
             .
             Faust
             .
             lib.
             2.
             cap.
             5
             Hieron
             .
             in
             Psal
             .
             86.
             
          
           
             In
             1.
             
             Sent.
             q.
             1.
             art
             .
             3.
             
          
           
             In
             2.
             2.
             q.
             1.
             art
             .
             1.
             
             〈◊〉
             ▪
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e9710
           
             1.
             ad
             Ti.
             ●
             .
          
           
             Tract
             .
             2.
             in
             Epist.
             10.
             
          
           
             Stroma
             .
             lib.
             7.
             
          
           
             Matt.
             18.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e10220
           
             Bibl.
             complut
             .
             in
             prefat
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e10730
           
             Hier.
             cont
             .
             Heluid
             .
             cap.
             9.
             
          
           
             Cap.
             12.
             
          
           
             De
             carne
             Christi
             cap.
             7.
             
             Orig
             hom
             .
             1.
             in
             lere
             .
             cir
             mediū
             .
             De
             vocat
             gent
             cap.
             3
             libr.
             4.
             
             Mat.
             c.
             23.
             
          
           
             Lib
             1.
             con
             .
             Crescon
             .
             cap.
             33.
             
             Epist
             .
             1.
             ad
             Sympron
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e11180
           
             Reede
             Pacianus
             of
             the
             a●ditiō
             of
             this
             name
             to
             the
             churche
             in
             the
             epistle
             cited
             .
             Matt.
             16.
             
          
           
             August
             .
             de
             consen
             .
             Euang
             c.
             1
             
          
           
             Hest
             .
             12.
             5
             
          
           
             Hest.
             6.
             3.
             
          
           
             Hest
             .
             5.
             2.
             
             Hest
             .
             15.
             7.
             
             Bar.
             1.
             2.
             
             Ier.
             52.
             12.
             2.
             
             Reg.
             25.
             
          
           
             ca.
             13.
             45.
             cap.
             2.
             48.
             
          
           
             See
             what
             is
             noted
             of
             this
             before
             in
             my
             answere
             to
             your
             secōd
             Antithesis
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e11720
           
             Io.
             10.
             30.
             
          
           
             Io.
             17.
             
             〈◊〉
             .
          
           
             1.
             
             Io.
             3.
             8.
             
          
           
             Matt.
             28.
             
          
           
             Loc
             22.
             
          
           
             Epist
             .
             174
             
          
           
             Libr.
             ●
             .
             cont
             .
             Maxim
             .
             c.
             14.
             
          
           
             His
             maiestie
             estsemeth
             himselfe
             Catholicke
             because
             he
             receiueth
             the
             fower
             first
             generall
             councells
             .
          
           
             Lib.
             4.
             de
             verbo
             c.
             7.
             
          
           
             Mr.
             Pilkinton
             woulde
             turne
             the
             state
             of
             the
             question
             .
          
           
             Matt.
             28.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e12550
           
             Ad
             Damasum
             .
          
           
             Ioh.
             15.
             
          
           
             Beware
             howe
             you
             attribute
             anie
             thinge
             to
             the
             defluxion
             of
             tyme
             least
             you
             fall
             vppon
             tradition
             .
          
           
             Homil
             de
             Natiuit
             .
             Domini
             .
          
           
             Looke
             before
             ▪
             Sect.
             10.
             
          
           
             Cent.
             Fab.
             ●
             .
             32.
             c.
             13.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e13450
           
             2.
             
             Thes
             .
             ●
             .
             15.
             
          
           
             Tract
             .
             98.
             in
             Ioh.
             
          
           
             Cyril
             .
             Alex
             .
             li.
             12.
             in
             ●o
             .
             c.
             68
             
          
           
             Chrisost
             in
             Matt.
             22.
             
          
           
             Tertull.
             cont
             .
             Hermogenem
             .
          
           
             Aug
             cont
             .
             lit
             .
             Petil.
             lib.
             3.
             c.
             6.
             
          
           
             Sect.
             2.
             
             §.
             ●
             verie
             willingly
             .
          
           
             Athan
             de
             incarnat
             .
             cont
             .
             Apolinar
             .
          
           
             Iren
             cont
             .
             heres
             .
             li.
             2.
             cap.
             42.
             
          
           
             Amb.
             to
             .
             4
             lib
             de
             paradis
             .
             c.
             12
             
          
           
             Hill.
             ad
             Constant
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15230
           
             2.
             10.
             12.
             3.
             10.
             13.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15370
           
             In
             hunc
             locum
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15480
           
             Iren.
             li.
             3.
             cap.
             1.
             
          
           
             De
             consensu
             Euang
             .
             l.
             ●
             .
             cap.
             vlt.
             
          
           
             Lib.
             4.
             de
             Pon●
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15620
           
             Bell.
             li.
             d.
             ●ap
             .
             c.
             8.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15730
           
             Epist
             119
             cap.
             13.
             
             Chrisost
             .
             serm
             .
             3.
             de
             resurrect
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15840
           
             Lib.
             ad
             Catech.
             de
             Simbolo
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e15970
           
             Aug
             li
             2.
             cont
             .
             Donat
             .
             c.
             7.
             
          
           
             I
             cited
             the
             same
             place
             you
             doe
             if
             you
             coulde
             see
             it
             ,
             thoughe
             the
             printer
             added
             the
             other
             vnto
             it
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e16130
           
             Bell.
             lib.
             4
             de
             verbo
             .
             cap.
             11
             ,
             respons
             ad
             Ireneum
             .
             The
             heretikes
             abusinge
             the
             authoritie
             of
             traditions
             prooueth
             theire
             authority
             ,
             as
             it
             doth
             also
             that
             of
             the
             scriptures
             which
             they
             likewise
             abuse
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e16250
           
             2.
             
             Thes
             .
             2.
             15.
             
             Basil
             de
             Spiritu
             S.
             cap.
             29.
             
             Fulke
             2.
             
             Thes
             .
             2.
             
             Sect.
             17.
             
          
           
             Epist
             44.
             
             &
             67.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e16710
           
             1.
             
             Tim.
             6.
             20.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e16850
           
             1.
             
             Cor.
             11.
             16.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e16980
           
             2.
             ad
             Tim.
             2.
             2.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A18391-e17180
           
             Iren.
             lib.
             3.
             cap.
             1.
             
          
           
             Aug.
             trac
             .
             49.
             in
             Io.
             
          
           
             
               Aug.
               epist
            
             .
             112
             ▪
             
          
           
             Dialogo
             cont
             .
             Luc.