The third part of Gangræna. Or, A new and higher discovery of the errors, heresies, blasphemies, and insolent proceedings of the sectaries of these times; with some animadversions by way of confutation upon many of the errors and heresies named. ... Briefe animadversions on many of the sectaries late pamphlets, as Lilburnes and Overtons books against the House of Peeres, M. Peters his last report of the English warres, The Lord Mayors farewell from his office of maioralty, M. Goodwins thirty eight queres upon the ordinance against heresies and blasphemies, M. Burtons Conformities deformity, M. Dells sermon before the House of Commons; ... As also some few hints and briefe observations on divers pamphlets written lately against me and some of my books, ... / By Thomas Edvvards Minister of the Gospel. Gangraena. Part 3 Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647. 1646 Approx. 913 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 180 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2008-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A83515 Wing E237 Thomason E368_5 ESTC R201273 99861798 99861798 113943 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A83515) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 113943) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 59:E368[5]) The third part of Gangræna. Or, A new and higher discovery of the errors, heresies, blasphemies, and insolent proceedings of the sectaries of these times; with some animadversions by way of confutation upon many of the errors and heresies named. ... Briefe animadversions on many of the sectaries late pamphlets, as Lilburnes and Overtons books against the House of Peeres, M. Peters his last report of the English warres, The Lord Mayors farewell from his office of maioralty, M. Goodwins thirty eight queres upon the ordinance against heresies and blasphemies, M. Burtons Conformities deformity, M. Dells sermon before the House of Commons; ... As also some few hints and briefe observations on divers pamphlets written lately against me and some of my books, ... / By Thomas Edvvards Minister of the Gospel. Gangraena. Part 3 Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647. [36], 16, [16], 17-240, [8], 241-295, [1] p. Printed for Ralph Smith, at the Bible in Cornehill., London, : 1646. Order to print on verson of first leaf. 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Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657 -- Early works to 1800. Christian sects -- England -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- Church history -- 17th century -- Early works to 1800. 2007-03 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-04 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-05 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2007-05 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Reader ; EVill men and seducers wax worse and worse , deceiving , and being deceived ; as a Fountaine casteth forth water , their hearts cast forth wickednesse ; and yet none greater pretenders to truth and holinesse , then these , and by these pretences they deceive many : This the Holy Ghost in Scripture fore-tells , the Stories of former ages testifie , that it may not seeme strange to thee if in our daies also Egyptian darknesse be accounted Gospell-light , licentiousnesse Christian Liberty , and pretended Saints if unmasked , appeare reall Devills . In two former Treatises the hereticall and blasphemous opinions , the scandalous and abominable practices of our Sectaries have been discovered , and to the end thou mayest be warned , and the truth of God not left without witnesse in Ages to come ; This third ( being a higher and fuller Discovery of the Frrours , Herefies and Insolencies of the Sectaries ) is penned by the former Authour , and allowed to be printed by him that is thy Friend in the truth , Ja. Cranford . The third PART of GANGRAENA . OR , A new and higher Discovery of the Errors , Heresies , Blasphemies , and insolent Proceedings of the Sectaries of these times ; with some Animadversions by way of Confutation upon many of the Errors and Heresies named . As also a particular Relation of many remarkable Stories , speciall Passages , Copies of Letters written by Sectaries to Sectaries , Copies of Letters written from godly Ministers and others , to Parliament men , Ministers , and other well-affected persons ; an Extract and the substance of divers Letters , all concerning the present Sects : together with ten Corollaries from all the forenamed Premises . Briefe Animadversions on many of the Sectaries late Pamphlets , as Lilburnes and Overtons Books against the House of Peeres , M. Peters his last Report of the English Warres , The Lord Mayors Farewell from his Office of Maioralty , M. Goodwins thirty eight Queres upon the Ordinance against Heresies and Blasphemies , M. Burtons Conformities Deformity , M. Dells Sermon before the House of Commons ; Wherein the Legislative and Iudiciall Power of the House of Peeres over Commoners is maintained and fully proved against the Sectaries , the Power of the House of Commons clearely demonstrated to be overthrowne upon the Mediums brought by the Sectaries against the Lords ; the late Remonstrance of the City of London justified , the late Lord Mayor and the City vindicated from unjust Aspersions , our Brethren of Scotland cleered from all the calumnies and reproaches cast upon them , and the Magistrates power in suppressing Heresies and Blasphemies asserted . As also some few Hints and briefe observations on divers Pamphlets written lately against me and some of my Books , as M. Goodwins pretended Reply to the Antapologie , M. Burroughs Vindication , Lanseters Lance , Gangraena playes Rex , Gangraena-Chrestum , M. Saltmarshes Answer to the second part of Gangraena . A Iustification of the manner and way of writing these Books called Gangraena , wherein not onely the lawfulnesse , but the necessity of writing after this manner is proved by Scripture , Fathers , the most eminent Reformed Divines , Casuists , the practice and custome of all Ages . By THOMAS EDVVARDS Minister of the Gospel . Iude 8. v. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion , and speake evill of dignities . 2 Pet. 3. 17. Tetherefore , beloved , seeing ye know these things before , beware lest ye also being led away with the errour of the wicked , fall from your own stedfastnesse . London , Printed for Ralph Smith , at the Bible in Cornehill . 1646. The Preface . IN this following Book as in a cleare and true Glasse , every impartiall and ingenuous Reader may plainly behold the many Deformities and great Spots of the Sectaries of these times , Spots of all kinds , Plague spots , Feaver spots , Purpule spots , Leprosie spots , Scurvey spots , Spots upon them discovering much malignity , rage & frensie , great corruption and infection , of whom may be said as in Moses Song , Deut. 32. 5. They have corrupted themselves , their spot is not the spot of his children : they are a perverse and crooked generation . O that the Sectaries themselves and others easie to be deceived with good words and faire speeches , apt to be carried away with good names and specious showes , as godlinesse , purity of Ordinances , Conscience , would but look into this Glasse and continue looking therein , diligently in the feare of God reading over this Book , and observing what 's here written , comparing and examining one thing with another , which would they do , I am confidently perswaded many of the Sectaries who know not the depths of Sathan would quickly be taken off , become out of love with their way and returne , and others kept from going after those wayes : this would prove a Soveraigne Antidote both to expell the poyson already received and to prevent the taking infection . Now that this Book ( by the blessing of God ) may the better attaine these ends , I shall in generall pr●mise two things . 1. Remove some objections that may lie in the way of the Reader , wipe off the dust and dirt cast upon this Gl●sse that might hinder the clear sight of things . 2. Give some Rules , Directions , and Cautions , as for the better understanding of it , so for preventing some cavils and mistakes that otherwise might be . For the first , I observe two things have beene objected against these Books of discovering the Errors , Heresies , and Practises of the Sectaries : First , the manner and way of writing , 〈◊〉 〈…〉 ing with matters of fact , particularising men by name , and b●ing very bitter and sharpe : Secondly the matter as being untrue and consisting most of lyes falshoods and fables . Now for the satisfaction of the Reader in the first , the manner and way of writing these parts of Gangraena , I have drawn up a large Treatise upon this subject , viz. a Justification of relating matters of fact and the names of Sectaries as wel as their Opinions and Arguments , which I have proved from the Scriptures of the old and new Testament both in commands and examples , Orthodox Fathers Augustine , &c. other Ancient Writers ▪ as Bernard , &c. the most learned and famous among the moderne 〈◊〉 , Luther , Beza , Bullinger , Danaus , &c. the judgement of 〈◊〉 , as Baldwin , &c. from the practise of Sectaries themselves , as Donatists , &c. in all ages , both in writing one against another , and against the Orthodox ; and from many strong convincing Reasons ; and besides these proofs have answered fully all objections of all sorts brought against it , as that t is a speaking against the Saints , uncovering our brothers nakednesse , a going against the Rule of Christ in Matth. 18. which is to tell our Brother alone : which Treatise of the Justification of writing these Gangr●naes ( I am confident ) will not be only satisfactory , but triumphing over all the clamors , o●tcries , and objections made by the Sectaries against my Books , slaying their Abs●loms , and cutting off the heads of their great Goliahs , as that of speaking against the Saints , and in the judgement of al learned and ingenuous men stopping their months for ever : Notwithstanding al which I cannot but expect 〈…〉 of the Sectaries will still clamor ; speak evill , and will not be perswaded , though never such reason be showed them , yea if an Angel from he even , or one of the old Prophets arising from the dead , should speak against their Opinions and wayes , 't is to befeared many of them would yet go on . The strong delusion that God hath sent upon many of them to beleeve lies , the great interest of divers in regard of preferment and profit , the Popes Crown , and the Monks bellies , the deep ingagements of others to that way by many relations , and having mens 〈◊〉 in admiration , make it is hard work to convince men though there be never such evidence of Reason . I may complaine of the Sectaries of our times , as a Paraeus doth of some Lutherans and others in his time , that things are altogether carried by opinions , yea by affections , no Arguments , no Apologies can take place . They that at the will and pleasure of some men do not approve of unprofitable , scandalous , yea monstrous opinions , they are cast off , the right hand of fellowship denyed them although they preach Christ sincerely . But now in the interim till that Treatise can come forth , which I intend shall preoede the Fourth Part of Gangraena , I wish the Sectaries to consult b Baldwins cases of Conscience who handling that case of Conscience , whether the Authors and maintainers of false opinions are to be spoken against by name , resolves it affirmatively giving Scriptures and Reasons for it , yea showing that false teachers are rather by name to be branded , then those who lead only wicked lives , and Calvins c Tractate against the Libertins , giving reasons of his owne practice , and answering objections in not only writing against the opinions of the Libertines , but naming Coppinus and Quintinus cheife heads of that fastion . Secondly , a man would wonder at it , that the Sectaries should so rage and cry out against me , and my Gangraenaes for meddling with matters of fact , and nominating men , when as long before I put pen to paper in that kind , divers of them had in Pamphlets spoken against many Presbyterians by name , both godly Ministers and other worthy persons , as Master Calamie , Doctor Burges , Master Prynne , &c. Master Burton telling in 〈◊〉 Pamphlet a story of me by name a● Colchester ( but false ) and raking 〈◊〉 old matters at Bury against Master Calamie in another Pamphlet call'd Truth , still Truth , though shut out of doores , and all before the First Part of Gangrana was printed ; and indeed the Sectaries have all along both before my Books came forth and 〈◊〉 since upon all occasions ( yea such of them as have spoken and written most against me for so doing as M. Saltmarsh , M. Goodwin , M. 〈…〉 on , &c. ) writ against the Pres 〈…〉 rians by name , and related all 〈…〉 of fact & stories of them , and in a disgracefull manner and way comparing them with D. Pockling 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in a scoffing 〈…〉 ing abusive way dealing with them ▪ and 〈◊〉 hath not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only by Independents to Presbyterians , but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 written Books and given us stories ( and that long before I 〈◊〉 thought of this way ) of 〈◊〉 Sectaries a● Anti 〈…〉 ians . Anabaptists , Familists , and that by names , with all particulars of their doings as well as opinions , and of his judgement upon them , as Master Wells his History of the Rise , Raigne , and Downfall of the Antinomians , and some others in that kind , so that in this I doe but follow them , and write after their Copie , and I appeale to the ingenuous Reader , how they can with any colour blame that as a great evill and wickednesse in me , which they account in themselves zeale of Gods glory , and a doing God service , especially considering that the Sectaries in their naming of Presbyterians , and bringing in matters of fact and stories have proceeded in a sixfold manner and way , all which in matters of this kind be the things most liable to blame and exception , and which I have all along carefully shunned and declined . First , the Sectaries in writing Books against the Reformation and Presbyterians , have not spared to write against , and that in a most reproachfull and vild way , whole bodies , Assemblies , Communities , and those the highest and greatest , as the House of Peers , House of Commons , the City of London and Common-Councell , the Assembly , the Kingdome and Generall Assembly of Scotland , some scores of such Books written by Sectaries being in all mens hands ; whereas in my writing against Sectaries , I have spoken only against particular persons , but to whole Bodies and Societies I have tendred all due respect , vindicating them and their power against the Pamphlets and aspersions of Sectaries . Secondly , the Sectaries in their writings of matters of fact have not ▪ only named ordinary persons , but persons of the greatest quality and place , abusing them by name , as divers Members of both Houses , the Speakers of both Houses , some of the Lords and some of the Commons , the Lord Major of London by name , but I have all along declined the naming of persons in authority and Magistracie , viz. in that way . Thirdly , the Sectaries in their personall matters and stories of the Presbyterians have still related things manifestly untrue , of which there hath been no ground at all , as Master Price ' s story of Master Bellamie 〈…〉 ding it unlawfull to sell Prayer Bookes as the Anabaptists in the Lord Majors farewell of the late Lord Major , as some stories of Cretensis , Master Burroughs and Master Burton of me , the contrary unto them being the truth ; as a passage in Master Dels Epistle Dedicatory to the House of Commons concerning Master Ley of the Assembly , most false , as a passage in Master Burtons Epistle of his Conformities Deformity of the new Lord Major known to be untrue ; and so I could go on with instancing in passages in Master Saltmarsh , Lilburne , and other such Books , manifestly untrue ; and indeed of all the stories and matters of fact the Sectaries have in their Pamphlets in disgrace of the Presbyterians , I hardly know one true one , whereas the stories related by me of them , the most of them are knowne to many , and are certain , and I have beene all along carefull , as by my Reply to Cretensis is evident . Fourthly , the Sectaries in their matters of fact have fallen upon Presbyterians with old matters many yeeres ago , before Presbyterians , yea gone back as farre almost as to their childhood , as Master Price did to Master Bellamie , and Master Burton goes back to Bury ten yeeres before , to finde something against Master Calamie , and so I might instance in others , but I have confined my selfe within three or foure yeeres , and to the times since they were Sectaries . Fifthly , the Sectaries have brought in against Presbyterians matters of bodily infirmities , of their complexions and such like , as Saltmarsh in his pretended Answer to my Second Part of Gangraena , upbraids me , saying , Your face and complexion showes a most sadly parched , burnt , and withered spirit , but I have forborne that , least I should reproach my Maker , for he that made me made them . Sixthly , many of the Sectaries in their writings against the Presbyterians , the Assembly , godly Ministers , the Scots , and particular persons by name , have done it in the most scornfull , prophane , blasphemous and abusive way , even to the abusing of the Scriptures , the Spirit of God , Proaching , Prayer , and other Ordinances , as ever was heard of in any age , witnesse The Arraignment of Persecution , Martins Eccho , Cretensis , and divers others , but in my Discoveries of the Errors , Heresies , Practises of the Sectaries , I have shunned all such wayes , setting my selfe plainly to discover the Errors and abominable Practises , confuting them with Scriptures and Reason , and in a serious sad manner applying the danger of those evils to the consciences of all , both Presbyterians and Sectaries ; and thus much for removing that stone of offence out of the way , taken from the manner and way of writing . 2. For the matter of this Booke that there 's a Truth in the Opinions , Stories , Practices related in it , notwithstanding the clamours and speeches of the Sectaries , that they are lyes , all lyes , I desire the Reader to observe and remember these following particulars : 1. That the Sectaries of our time are so shamelesse in this kind , as to say all things written against them , are lyes : thus they have said the stories of the old Anabaptists in Germany written by Sleydan , Bullinger , Lambertus Hortens 〈…〉 s & other worthy men were lyes , and they would not beleeve them ; so Master Saltmarsh in one of his Pamphlets against Master Ley denies the truth of those stories , and other Sectaries in Pamphlets before him have said the same , affirming if the King had over-come the Parliament , stories would have made them as bad as the Anabaptists , and the Princes of Germany prevailing against them , set men on work to set them out so , but all was false ; Now if our Sectaries will speak and write thus of all the relations of the old Anabaptists , how can it be expected , but that they will cry all downe for false written of themselves ? So our Sectaries will not beleive the stories of the Antinomians , Anabaptists , Familists in New England , of Mistris Huchinson and the rest , but say all is false , all lyes ; and some of them have cryed out of Master Wells his Booke of the Antinomians of New England , as much as of mine . 2. The truth of the maine substance and matter of this Booke both for opinions and matters of fact is in the Booke it selfe , by quoting Books knowne to hundreds , by naming of persons knowne for witnesses , by relating of things common in the times , and these set by the Errors in the Margents , or joyned to the matter , so manifest that he that runs may read it , and rationally there can be no more question made of them , then whether the Scots tooke New-Castle , the Parliaments Forces had a Victory at Nazeby Feild , there be such a man as M. Hugh Peters or John Lilburn . 3. That the Sectaries have used devices and found out inventions on purpose to possesse people that relations of things in my Books are false , when most true ; as for instance , some Sectaries that have been of the same name of those Sectaries that I have related stories of ( though they could not but know by many circumstances and particulars in the stories they were not the men but others ) have said , Ther 's a story related of me , I am the man he speaks of , and t is all false , for I was at such a place then and could not do so : thus one Webb an Officer in the Army did , telling the people in the West where he found Gangraena , that the story of Webb was of him , I am that Webb in Gangraena , and 〈◊〉 all false , I never preached such things , nor was ever questioned about such things , or did such things related ▪ This a godly Minister in the ●●st of England told me he heard one Webb an Officer in the Army speak thus to the people to possesse them against Gangraena ; Now I writ not of that Webb , but another Webb a younger man here in London , not one of the Army , who put out a Booke for the vindication of himselfe , where he confesses most of the things ; and this other Webb could not but by many passages related , as of the age , as of being a Schoole-Master , as of the Christian name , and divers others but know well enough I meant him not , and yet by this did he labour to blast my Book . Again some who having beene mentioned in Letters written up to friends , and printed by me , have come to my house , denying peremptorily those things spoken of them in the Letters , desiring to know who writ them that they might have ●eparations , I having told them their names , & withall writing to those Ministers to know more fully their grounds of such relations , they have returned 〈…〉 e Answers , that those things were most true , and they would make them good when ever they should question them , in which kind I could give divers notable instances , but the nature of a Preface not admitting many , I will relate only one , namely of Master Mascall of Dover spoken of in a Letter sent from Dover subscribed by five hands to a Member of the Assembly , printed in the Second Part of Gangraena in p. 135. of the Second Edition , who presently after the coming forth of that Book , coming to my house with a friend of his and mine formerly , denyed positively and peremptorily what was written of him in the Letter , declaring he was of another judgement then to speak so of our Ministers and Synods as is expressed in that Letter , holding our godly Ministers to have a lawfull calling , and Synods to be needfull ; wherupon I writing to one of the Ministers all passages that passed betweene us , and desiring to know what he said to it , he sent me this Answer ; Worthy Sir , I received your Letter dated June the 18. but could not conveniently Answer it till now , because I would see the carriages of the Independents on last wednesday when we chose our Elders . What we wrote of Master Mascall we can cleare , and will maintaine and much more ; and according to your advice you shall not faile of sufficient testimony if that Letter be crossed : whereas he saith that he holds our godly Ministers to have a lawfull calling , he will not say it in Dover , till he have distinguished the word godly into a shadow : For his saying they never kept Church-meetings in time of the publicke exercises , it s a very false untruth , and for his seeming to accord with us in our account of Synods , he knows that we hold it a duty to combine Churches , and to have a combination rule the Elders and Pastor of a Congregation , which we know they will never allow . Thus much in breife for Master Mascall who I dare say will not challenge any man in Dover , for that that is done against him , or if he doth , will find as ready an Answer as ever man received by man. Your loving friend and Brother . MICH. PORTER . June 29. 1646. And thus much for the First generall head , concerning the manner and matter of this Book . For the Second , the commending some directions , and taking off some misconstructions and cavils , for the better understanding of the subject matter and manner of this Booke let the Reader observe and consider these following : 1. That the Sectaries run such around of all opinions , as that they are come to hold many Popish and Prelaticall opinions , and to go upon the Papists grounds and mediums for many of their Tenets , which in the Errors , Positions and Practises reckoned up in this Booke the Reader may observe , as the 5 , 6 , 7 , 36 Errors ; nay there 's almost no Popish or Prelaticall principle and Error , but many Sectaries are fallen into it , and in the practise of it , as being against the Perfection , Sufficiency , Perspicuity of the Scriptures , being for Pope Toleration and a Dispensation for want of an Infallible Judge , as the Papists are for the Pope upon that ground , denying preaching to be the word of God and the service of God as much or more then ever any of the Prelates did , being for Musick , Organs , Hymns in the publick Assemblies , holding anointing the sick with Oyle , maintaining Perfection in this life with some Popish Friers , besides divers other Popish Errors : hence divers Popish * Bookes written by Preists and Friers have beene Translated and lately set forth by some Sectaries , sold openly , and I suppose Licensed because the Stationers names for whom printed , and Printers names expressed . 2. The Reader shall find in this Booke the Sectaries Designe and Practise , not to be only corrupting Religion , running out into extravagancies and strange conceits that way , but to be against Magistracy and Civill Government , their designe of opposing setled Government , and bringing an Anarchy and Confusion into Church and State , being here so fully laid open that they who run may read it ; T is in this Book unvailed and the w●●king of this spirit in all sorts of Sectaries and places clearly manifested : they have in Terminis in divers Pamphlets and some Sermons declared against Monarchie and Aristo●acie , and for Democracie they have expressed themselves in such a manner concerning that , that they make it noe other then an Anarchie , making all alike , confounding of all rancks and orders , reducing all to Adams time and condition and devolving all power upon the state Vniversall and promiscuos multitude , whom they make the Creator and Destroyer of Kings , Parliaments and all Magistrates at there meere pleasure , without tying them to any rule , or bounding them by any lawes . 3. I doe more punctually and particularly give the proofes of the Errors and Heresies named in this Third Part then in the two ●ormer , with Animadversions by way of Confutation or Observation upon more of the Errors and Practises then I did before , as having beene desired by some so to do , and being that which I judge will make the work more profitable ; and the Reader shall finde the proofs of the Errors set in the Margents just by them , and the Animadversions under every particular Error , or else of divers of them put in one where the Errors are more of a kind ; and the Reader will finde I have in all Books quoted all along , to prove the things I charge the Sectaries with , dealt very punctually and faithfully , and I challenge them to name any one thing quoted false , or wrested among so many ; and for other Relations I have them from such knowne godly Ministers and Christians being eare and eye witnesses of them , that I cannot easily be deceived : t is possible some circumstances of order , time , place , number , may in some stories be mistaken , and yet the maine storie true , as we see in Histories of battles and other humane things they often are ( though I know n●ne such , and have beene in all circumstances as well as substance , as faithfull and carefull as a man can well be ) and I can say it , that of all the particulars in this kind that I have related in these three Books , besides many matters of fact in Antapologia , ( which in all amount to some thousands ) I do not know of any one particular related by me ( excepting one ) that I have reason to suspect was not true , and yet that was written me in a Letter by a Reverend and godly Minister and was the voice of the Country , and all I did was only printing that Letter , no otherwise affirming it ; which particular , when the untruth of it shal● be made apparent to me from the man himselfe or his freinds , I shall be ready , and have offered it to some who have spoken of it , to right him publickly in print . 4. Whereas some Letters written to my selfe , or some other Ministers are printed in this Booke , which have some passages in them casting honor and praise upon me , resembling me to some Worthies in their times , as Luther , &c. for which I may be censured , as being the hand & instrument of publishing my own praises , and counted vain-glorious ; I do by way of taking off this exception desire the Reader to consider these things . First , that I have left out of Letters many passages which reflect honour on my selfe , constantly passing by such Titles , Epithites , and other expressions that are matters of praise in all particulars , excepting the justifying of my work in writing thus against the Sectaries . Now my Books for the manner and way of writing having beene so cried out of by all the Sectaries : and many weak Christians , by their meanes , having beene also offended ; I thought it necessary to print some passages of Letters from godly Ministers giving testimony to my Books , and approving me in the way of my writing them , justifying me by the practise of Morney , Plesseus against the Papists , and of Luther ; and the judicious Reader shall find if he observe , I print no other passages that may so much as reflect any kind of praise upon my selfe , but only those that justifie my undertaking in this kind against the Sectaries ; and which the Lord knowes I print not so much for my selfe , or my owne praise , but for the sakes of others , that they may be satisfied of my Books against all the calumnios cast upon them , and profit by the reading of them . Secondly , T is not unknowne how the Sectaries by writing and speaking have set themselves to disparage me , and to cast scornes of all kinds upon me , such as hardly ever were upon any man in any age , and all to weaken my esteeme , credit and authority with the people , that being looked upon as a man so weak that a woman can answer my writings , and that I know not how to put the Nominative Case and Verb together , &c. all I do against the Sectaries might be slighted as not worthy to be looked upon : Now it being apparent this is the designe of the Sectaries , and their master peice , and God by his providence without my seeking in the least , stirring up many learned men to bear witness to my works in Letters to their Freinds , which have beene brought to me , and in Letters writ to my selfe , I suppose I may in such a case without the censure of vain-glory print such testimonies to counterballance the despisings and scornings of the Sectaries ; yea , if I had gone further , and printed not only passages justifying my work , but what they had expressed of me in other kinds , considering how the Sectaries vilifie me , I might have beene excused : Saint Paul a humble and modest man , yet when by false Teachers he was in his person , presence and speech among the people presented weak and contemptible , to the end his ministery might be made ineffectuall , he would not beare it , but takes off all those things , enters into a commendation of himselfe , showing he was equall with the very cheifest Apostles , and speaks of his owne knowledge and gifts , and speaks that in this case he was compelled to glory , 2 Cor. 10. 10 , 11 , 12. 2 Cor. 11. 5. 6. 16. 2 Cor. 12. 11 , 12. And in such a case as this if Casuists be consulted with as Amesius , &c. they conclude that credit and a good report may not only be maintained , but sought for , viz. for the glory of God , and that we may by our work and example profit others the more by that means . 5. Whereas in my Book there are many Relations of Sectaries in the Army , some passages in Letters speaking of the Army , and some things spoken by my selfe , that some may take to reflect upon the whole Army , I desire the Reader to understand aright that nothing related by me , though written by others , or spoken by my selfe is meant of the whole Army , or the greater part of it , but only of that part of the Army , viz. the Sectaries in the Army : I acknowlege the New Modell under Sir Thomas Fairfax hath done gallant service against the enemy , and did the greatest and best services when it had not so many Sectaries as it hath now , and my intent is not in the least to cast dirt upon the Army , but only to relate Errors and insolencies of a part of the Army : The Sectaries , who though but a part , and much the lesser , may be somtimes in discourse or writing call'd the Army , viz. in that sense as the Independents crying up the Army in Pamphlets and Sermons use the word Army , saying , here 's an Army , the army hath done thus , when they mean by the Army , and expresse so much in other words the Independents and Saints in the army , so do I when I speak in any place of the hurt the Army doth , or the Errors there I understand not the Army , but the Sectares in it . 6. Whereas in this Book there are many passages that Sectaries may be likely enough to interpret a striking at the Parliament , a casting reproach upon them , and more particularly upon the Honorable House of Commons ; I do here declare and professe against any such misconstructions , or consequences , it being not my intent to reflect either upon both Houses as conjunct , or upon each as considered distinct , or upon the Committees of either House , the most that can be drawne is , that some passages in Letters or Relations show there are some particular Members that are or favor Sectaries , which in writing so much of the Sectaries ( as I do ) for the good of the Parliament and the Kingdome cannot possibly be avoided , ( though I forbear the naming of , or deciphering any of them ) and that there are some such crept into the Parliament all the Kingdome knowes and speaks of it , and therefore I meddle not to speake against the Houses in all my Discourse , neither do I insinuate any thing in the least to bring the people out of love with Parliaments , or this Parliament : I formally declare , least any should mistake , t is the peoples great interest and blessing to have the power and Priviledges of Parliament maintained , and they must take heed they be not so discontented with miscarriages of any particular Members or Committees that may fall out , as to set loose in their hearts from Parliaments and desert them . Parliaments are the strong Boundaries of the exorbitancies of Princes and their Ministers ; they have by the constitution of the Kingdome and the Lowes , power more then sufficient to restraine the Tyranny of Princes , and to correct their greatest Favourits and Officers of State , let the people once lose Parliaments and be out of love with them , and then farewell all Liberty , Property , and slavery will come in like an armed man ; and that nothing in my Book can be against the Honorable Houses , ( however someparticular Members may be guilty of some things I speak of , and that party wresting my words to such a sense to make the Parliament offended with me ) yet that there can be no such thing , I desire these things may be considered : 1. I do de Industria and at large discover and write against the Sectaries for speaking and writing against the Parliament , against the House of Lords and Commons , and do plead and contend for the power of both Houses , both in matters of Religion and civill things , against the Sectaries , and therefore I cannot be thought to do any thing against them , but for them , 2. That in speaking sometimes of the House of Commons , I speake not positively that they do so , or use such words of them as mine , or bring such Arguments as if I owned them , but speak the Sectaries words , and show what followes upon their grounds against the power of the House of Commons . 3. For any passages in Letters or Relations that may seem to have any reference to one or both Houses of Parliament , a● speaking against any under them imployed in Military or Civill affaires , or any other matter , I meddle not with those passages at all as to justifie or assert them , but do only barely relate and print them ; and for no other end but that the body of both Houses may know that which may be they have not heard of , viz. such a danger●us man imployed in their service , such insolencies committed by men vnder their pay , and may know the Countries sense of such and such things , how ill t is taken such wicked men should bee implied and may prevent in time the mischeifs and evils which may grow out of such things and the discontents that may be occasioned thereby . Fourthly I doe with salmission conceive that for a Minister a known friend and servant of the Parliaments in a respective way ( not in a reproaching reviling way ) to make known to the Parliament what the best affected say and write to ●riends of such and such particulars , as the suffering , yea preferring of all sort : of Sectaries , as the not settling Religion in so long a time , as the letting freinds waite long before they can have their Petitions received , as about the Elections of some new Members , as about the carriage of many Sectaries in the Army , &c. is so farre from speaking against the Parliament or becomming their enemy , that t is one of the greatest and faithfullest services can be done them , and whatever passages I may have printed in any of these , or any other of this kind , I conceive t is highly for their service , that they may know what hurt the Sectaries doe them , and how the Kingdome takes things ; and truly next to the glory of God , the great thing that moves me to write as I doe of the Sectaries , is the great dammage and prejudice that comes to the Parliament by them , that as Hester said of Haman to Ahazuerus , the enemy could not countervaile the Kings dammage . So the Sectaries doings all the Kingdome over in all kind of Mechanicks preaching , in making tumults and riots in Churches , in driving away godly Ministers , and venting all kind of abominable opinions does so much wrong to the Parliament in the Countries severall wayes , that they can never countervaile the Parliaments dammage and losse , and I have related such things for no other end , but to let them know so much ; and I could wish both Houses had read all passages in Letters sent from severall parts of the Kingdome , and from beyond Seas to London , which I have s●●ne of this nature , a● what ill bloud these things breed , and how because of the Sectaries they lose a peice in the hearts of their best freinds , with many other passages which I forbeare now to relate . The Parliament upon many of the wicked doings of the Sectaries , as baptizing a Horse , making uproares in Churches , &c. may take up a like speech which Jacob said to Simeon and Levi , Ye have troubled me to make me to stinck among the Inhabitants of the Land : You have troubled us , to make us to lose the hearts of many well-affected people in City and Country , and thereby encouraged the common enemy to be ready to gather themselves against us again , and we being few in number , in danger to be deserted of the people by reason of you , we shall be destroyed and our House . 7. Whereas some of the Sectaries in their Pamphlets , as Master Walwyn and others have often insinuated that I have preached and written so much against the Sectaries out of Policy , Superstition , worldly and selfe Interest to maintain my owne Covetousnesse , Ambition , desire of Domination , distinction betweene Clergy and Laytie , out of a spirit of opposition and Persecution against conscientions and peaceable men ( all which they have done out of a designe to blast my books among many who know me not , not knowing otherwise how to answer them ) I do therefore that I may countermine the Sectaries in this and take of these prejudices , declare as in the presence of God , I never have , nor do appeare against the Sectaries and Errors of the times from any of these principles , but from a zeale of the glory of God and his Truth , and that founded upon knowledge and search , a compassion to the Souls of poore people deceived , and the discharge of my duty and Conscience as a Minister of the Gospel ; and as for those other of Policy , Self-interest , &c. they have never fallen so much as under my consultation , unlesse that I have considered and forecast that what I was doing in writting such a Book , and such a Book was against all Policy , Self-Interest , and the ready way ( as the times were and are ) to run the hazard of the ruine of my selfe and my family , and that what I write is truth , and the Sectaries speeches aspersions , I desire the Reader to observe these following particulars , and do challenge all the Sectaries to disprove any one particular if they can . 1. Many years ago when I was persecuted by some Prelates and their Creatures , in no possibility nor capacity by my principles and practices , of preforment , & . ( as the best of the Independents well know ) I preached against , and upon all occasions declared my self against the Brownists , Separatists , Antinomians and all Errors in that way , as well as against Popish Innovations and Arminian Tenets . There are many who were my Auditors in those times can and will witnesse what I have preached at London and at Hartford aginst those Errors , when I have in the same places preached such Sermons against the prevailing Opinions Innovations and Corruptions of the Prelates , that many thought I should never have preached again ; and indeed was not without manifold sufferings and troubles , being put out of places , stopped from coming into others , and at last Letters missive with an Attachment sent out to bring me into the High Commission Court. About thirteene years ago at Magnus Church I preaching against forsaking the Publick Assemblies , had on a Lecture night at the same Church a Bill given me up ( among the Bills to pray for the sick ) speaking bitterly for so doing . At Hartford about 10. years ago , when Independency and the Church way began to be fallen too by some men of Note and some people to look after it , I preached against it earely , and by all wayes laboured to preserve the people . About 8. yeares agoe when Errors on the right hand tooke with many , I did at a Lecture in the City at Aldermanbury , and Coleman-street preach against Apostasie and falling to Errors on the right hand , and more particularly at Coleman-street , ( many in that parish being then leaning that way ) gave some considerations against Errors on the right hand , and warned the people of the white Devill , quoting a saying of Master Cartwright out of the Proverbs , and Master Brightman out of the Revelations against leaving the Church of England , and Master John Goodwin was then well pleased with my Sermon that he gave mo great thanks . 2. I never yet sought any great things for my self , great livings , or coming into publicke places of honor and respect , to be of the Assembly , or to preach in any publicke places before the Magistrates either at Westminster or London , but have contented my selfe with small meanes , and to preach in private places in comparison , having refused many great livings and places , preaching here in London for a little , and that but badly paid ( a● many well know ) minding the worke and service , little the maintenance . I can speak it truly that in these open times when many young men , raw preachers , men who never bore the heat of the day , have got great Livings of two or three hundred a yeere well situated with houses and all accommodations , I have for the publick good declined all such offers , spent my owne temporall estate to minister to my necessities , not having had for almost these two last yeers 40. li. per Annum , not withstanding any constant preaching on Lords dayes , week-dayes and all extraordinary occasions of Fastings and thankesgiving : I have beene willing to forsake my fatnesse and sweetnesse , to neglect my profit , health , benefit of my Familie , all advantages , and in a sort to sequester my selfe from freinds , and all worldly enjoyments to spend my time , strengh , spirits , estate , and all in reeding , writing , studying of the Controversie of these times , having prepared many Tractates against the Errors of the times ; And as for Domination and affecting of Rule and Government , I have little meddled in that kind , beene at few meetings of that nature , and do professe I am so farre from being ambitious in that way , that I should account it a great happinesse to have a call to a place only to preach and write , and a yeerely Pension for the maintenance , rather then Tyths . Thirdly , I began to write my Gangrenaes , and have continued to write on ( since which time I have beene accused to do all out of policie , worldly interest ) in the times of the growth and raigne of the Sectaries , when they have beene in their greatest power and most formidable , able to sit on the skirts , and to crush those who have opposed them ( of which there are many instances , which I well knew ) and to preferre and honor those who adhered to them ; and yet in such a time have I writ against them , and more and more laid them open , which certainly could be no policie , worldly interest , but piety and duty to appeare in so open a manner against the rising side : I well knew the Sectaries strengh , policie , activnes , and how England was a bad Aire at that time and still is for zealous Presbiterians to thrive in , much might be lost by it , but nothing gained ; I understood the faithfull witnesses had not yet put off their sackcloch ; had I indeed written against the Sectaries when they had beene on the declining hand , and cast out as the Bishops , when all men in high places had turned their hand against them , this might have beene interpreted Policy , wordly Interest , but to do it in a time when the Sectaries had so many friends in high places , such an influence upon our Armies , Councels , &c. so many for them in City and Country , I beleive no wise man who considers it will call it Selfseeking or Policy : I may say in this case as Job in another , Is there any taste in the white of an Egge ? So , is there any Policy in what I have done ? 4. I have beene so farre from getting any thing by my open and earnest appearing against the Sects , that I have suffered and lost much , and am exposed to all sorts of hazards and dangers for so doing : I beleeve I have suffered more in my name , Estate , losse of Friends , &c. then any Sectarie in England hath done , for maintaining and spreading his Errors . I could have beene the darling of the Sectaries in regard of my former Interest and acquaintance with many of them , so I would but have held my peace and done them no hurt ( though I had not beene theirs ) I could have had more friends among the Presbyterian party to have beene more moderate ( as they call it ) ( for such a time have we fallen into of Luke warmnesse , and favour of Sectaries , that the being earnest against them hath made some who goe for Presbyterians not to owne me as otherwise they would for feare of being taken notice of ) but I have lost all them , and many friends more that had some relation to Independents , having been deserted of many with whom I had kept unviolable friendship a long time . I have suffered by that party in some places in the City , where I have beene sought unto and earnestly desired by the knowne godly party , I having beene kept out by the Sectaries meanes , either by joyning together with Malignants against me , or taking off some friends , or working one way or other : I have suffered much in my name , all manner of evill having beene spoken of me , having beene reviled , scorned , every Sectaries hand turned against mee been for a signe to be spoken against : O the ●ard speeches and contradictions not only of sinners , but of many Saints to that I have endured . I have been threatned in many kinds , and there have been consultations what to do with me ; Lawyers have beene advised with , what might be done in Law in such cases of men being named , the Parliament hath beene stirred up in severall Pamphlets against me , as in Gangraena playes Rex , Walwyns and Saltmarsh's Pamphlets ▪ they would upon pretences make the Parliament fall upon me , and have said they hoped the House of Commons would be at leisure ere long to talk with me ; and besides what I have suffered and doe suffer , I looke upon my selfe as exposed to many dangers and sufferings , running a great hazard in this undertaking : I know there are some desperate men among them like the Circumcelliones among the Donatists , and what may not they doe , if God restrain them not : I am not ignorant what a strong party they have , what a proud generation they are impatient of all contradiction and being crossed , to whose Sheafe they think all Sheafes should bow , nor what a subtile malitious revengefull people they are , I am sensible what t is at this time to lay them thus open , even as much as to catch an angry Lion by the beard , and to stop him in his way rearing after his prey , or as to meet with a chafed Beare robbed of her whelps : and therefore in stead of once dreaming of worldly interest , the favour of men , I have laboured to prepare my self for persecutions and troubles , to forecast the worst , having set God and his Truth for my helpe , which are stronger then all . 5. I have beene so farre from Policy , Selfe-Interest in wrighting against the Sectaries , that I was never guilty of these things in any way I ever appeared for : I never was the man since I came to years of understanding that ever put the question which was the strongest and the rising side ( they never fell under my deliberation ) but which was the good side for God and his Truth , that was enough to me , I looked to that and never troubled my thoughts about rising or great things in the world , as never expecting them ; and in my adhering to one party or side before another , I have still done it but so farre as they have beene for God and his Truth , freely declaring my selfe at the same time I have beene theirs , against wherein they have declined from the Truth and way of God. 6. Whereas the Sectaries , cast Policy , worldly-Interest , &c. upon me , they themselves are most faulty in this kind ; and if the Independents Churches and Lectures with other their worldly Interests be compared with mine , their hundreds with my scores , their applause being cryed up , with my being cryed downe , their living in pompe and feasting almost every day , with my slender diet , their ease with my labours , it will be found many of them fell to be Sectaries out of ambition , pride , profit , and that they might live easily . * Calvin in his Instruction against Libertines showes the reason why Quintinus and his companions of Taylors became Doctors were so changed , that they might live delicatly and easily , and not be put to labour for their Livings : They thought it better for them that as the Priests and Monks got their Livings by chanting , so they by prating ; and so no question one great reason of many Mechanicks turning preachers and Dippers is , because they may leave working and live delicatly and idely by going from Country to Country preaching . And indeed instead of any Ministers or people opposing the Sectaries out of Policy , worldly Interests , t is evident t is the high way to some gainfull Place or other to become a Sectarie or to favour them , hundreds turning Independents and Sectaries meerly for preferments and Places , as heretofore men turned Prelatical , and Arminians because of great Livings ; and how the Independent party have feathered their nests , got well for themselves above other men , the Reader shall find more spoken of it in this Book . 7. As for that which is said I write so against the Sectaries out of a spirit of persecution and hatred of peaceable consciencious men , I can say truly , if I persecute consciencious peaceable men , whom do I then love ? my love , delight and interest is in such , and I am so far from a spirit of persecution , that I would be glad but to find the same measure from Independents , Brownists , Anabaptists and others , which I would measure unto them if it were in my power , namely I would not imprison , banish them and such like , only hinder them from all places of power and trust in the Kingdome , and from spreading their Errors and Opinions to the hurting of others , keep the unsound from the sound , which if I differed in judgement from what was established in a Church , and had nothing else done to me , I should never conplaine of persecution and violence for that ; for t is absolutely necessary for the peace and welfare of the civill State , besides what t is for the honor of God , in the preventing the spreading of all Errors and Heresies . And for a conclusion of this I have the clear and full testimony of my conscience , that my appearing against the Sectaries hath not risen from any such base and poore grounds as the Sectaries alledge , but from a sense of my duty that I might witnesse to the truth of God in this sinfull and adulterous generation . And now to draw to a conclusion of this Preface , nothing that hath yet befallen me of scandals , reproaches , and other sufferings , or that shall further befall me in this way , of Books set out against me , of persecutions and troubles to bonds , imprisonments , losse of estate shall ( the grace of God assisting me ) turn me out of my way of constantly opposing the Sectaries , so long as they go on in their way , but when they for my writing against them shall speak against me as most vile and abominable , I shall answer them as David , It was for the Lord that I have done it , and I will be yet more vile then thus , and though every day , naybour in the yeer should bring forth some book against me , as bad as Balthazar Paeimontanus writ against Zuingl . and Bolsecu● against Calvin , yet for my part I shall be so far from being troubled , that I shall take all those books as Job speaks , and bind them as a crown to my head , nay if all the Sectaries in England were combined against me , and there were as many of them as tiles upon the houses in the City , and every one of these Sectaries were a Devill , yea had a legion of Devils ( as I beleeve some of them are possessed with many ) yet I would go on against them , and if the Sectaries should be able out of this Book , or any other to take advantage of my zeale , faithfulnesse and plainnesse of spirit , to make something of some words to stir up the Civil powers to trouble me , yet for all that I shall not give them ever , but write so much the more , p●int them 〈◊〉 , pray , speak against their Errors , and if God should give me so into their hands as to be able to deale with me as the Papists did with some of the ●itnesses of the truth , yet I am confident they should have no cause to rejoyce , but I should overcome even in that , like Sampson kill more Philistims by my death then by my life , and many Brethren would waxe more ●old to preach and write against them , and out of my ashes should arise those who should further discover them . I know the Sectarian faction must be destroyed and fall , Babell must come downe as well as Babylon , and the making of them naked is a preparatory work to the making of them desolate and eating their flesh . But O that God would rather give them to see what they have done , and make them to confesse , give him glory , and returne , helping to build his House with both hands , which they have so laid waste and hindred all this while ; and O that they would take well this Book , look into it , and observe Gods hand in finding them out , accept of it as it was indeed intended for their good , and not cast it away , with saying t is sharp and bitter , but rather remember that of the Apostle , that men must be sometimes sharply rebuked That they may be sound in the ●aith . Erasmus often said of the Papacit in his time , that it was so corrupt that it weede● acrem medicum , a sharp Physitian , a gentle would have done no good , and therefore he raised up Luther a man of a free and hot spirit , that cared not for gold , and that feared not great men , but went on in the cure of the Church , strong and rough humors needing strong phisick to purge them out . The foulnesse and strength of the disease of Sectarisme at this time call'd , and calls for a strong P●tion and may justly plead against the offence of any acrimonie and quicknesse that may be found in it . Jesus Christ himselfe that meeke Lamb , of whom it was written he should not strive no● cry , neither should any man heare his voice in the streets , yet his zeale of his Fathers House made him as t is in the second of John to make a 〈…〉 rge of cords and drive all that sold Ox●n , Sheepe and Doves , and the ch●●gers of money out of the Temple and overthrow the Tables , saying unto them that sold Doves , take these things hence , make not my Fathers House ●n house of merchandise ; and I remember not that ever I re●d of the like sharpnesse and quicknesse of Christ , as this , in any other case ( that against the Scribes , Pharisees , and S 〈…〉 es , false Teachers was the likest ) and certainly the servants of Christ in a 〈◊〉 when the Church of God and Religion is bought and sold , and made merchandise of by false Teachers , as Saint Peter speaks , the precious truths of God , and the immortall souls of them for whom Christ died , prestituted and sold to the base lusts and selfe ends of men , when there are not found in the House of God so good intruders as th●se that sell Oxen , Sheepe and Doves , such profitable creatures , but those that sell T 〈…〉 , Crocodiles , Pipers , Serpents , and all kind of Monst●rs , they may and ought at such times and in such cases to imitate Christ , and to doe something more then ordinary for the purging of the Church , and that may show their zeale for God and for his House . THE TABLE . THe Catalogue of the Errours laid down in this Booke from page 2. unto page 17. Animadversions by way of Confutation on the Errors of the Sectaries about civill Government , as that all power of Civill Government is founded onely in the choise and election of the present people , as that all the legall , supreame Legislative power of this Kingdome is in the House of Commons layd downe in the third and fourth sheets of this Book , and in page 158 , 159 , 160. A Catalogue of some Blasphemies of the Sectaries , and a Relation of some passages in their Prayers laid downe in the latter part of the fourth sheet . A Relation of a story of some Sectaries in contempt of Baptisme pissing in the Font of the Church at Yakesly in Huntingtonshire , and bringing a Horse into the Church , and baptizing it . pag. 17. 18. which relation is attested by their hands . A Relation of some Sectaries here in London , annointing with oyle an old blind woman to restore her to sight , p. 19. A Relation of a storie of some Troopers in the Army destroying a Dove-House , because they were fowles of the Ayre given to the sonnes of men , all having a common right in them , p. 20. Copies of Letters written from godly Ministers , Committees and other persons of quality and well-affected to Members of the House of Commons , Minist 〈…〉 and Citizens of London , concerning the opinions and insolent 〈…〉 ctises of Sectaries in the Army , pag. 21 , 22. p. 30. 41. 42 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 46 , 47. Copies of Letters written from Ministers and others concerning the opinions and practises of Sectaries not belonging to the Armies , and Sectaries in generall , p. 33. 35 , 36. 55. 66 , 67 , 68 , 69. Copies of Letters written by Sectaries themselves to other Sectaries or to some of our Ministers , p. 48 , 49 , 50 , 51 , 52 , 53 , 54 , 35 , 56. 58 , 59. 62. Copies of Letters written from godly Ministers , Committee men , and other persons well-affected , out of the North concerning out Brethren of Scotland and their Armies , p. 71. 72. 73. 74. Copies of Letters written from godly Ministers out of severall Countries to me , and other Ministers in the City , approving of my manner and way of writing these Books against the Sectaries cal'd Gangrana , and of their usefulnesse , and the good they have done , p. 33. 3● . 40. 74 , 75 ▪ 77 , 78. Copies of Letters written from Holland or New-England concerning some Errours , and Practises , p. 94. 168 , 169. A Relation of some opinions of a Lievtenant of a Company in the Army , p. 22. A Relation of some words spoken by a Colonell in the Army , and another of the Ar 〈…〉 concerning Ireland , p. 23. A Relation of the souldiers preaching in Oxford , and in the publike schooles , p. 23. A story of a Sectarie that would not be married by a Minister as holding it unlawfull , and afterwards when he had lived with her casting her of , and denying she was his wife , p. 24. A Relation of some words and speeches of Sectaries against the Scots , Assembly , Ministery , City , the late Lord Mayor , p. 24. 25. A Relation of a story of Mr. Jenney , and Mrs. Att●●a●ay , and of Letters sent her from a Prophet , and his Doctrine of generall Restauration , and of Esau's world , and Jacobs words . p. 26. 27. A Relation of a Sectarie holding that the Parliament must give the Kingdome , that is both England , Scotland and Ireland to the Saints , p. 28. 29. A Relation of a Troope of Colonell Riches Regiment preaching and dipping in Wales , and of a womans dying within a day or two after being dipped by him , p. 31. A Relation of a Minister hearing in a meeting of Sectaries one who exercised affirme that he was Jesus Christ , and of the Ministers conference with him about it , and his standing in it that he was Christ , p. 32. A Relation of some sectarian souldiers affronting and disturbing a godly Mininister in the Church , and of beating a man for gathering Tythes , p. 32. An Information from Norwich under the Mayors hand of a she ●ectary one Priscilla Miles , p. 34. 35. A Relation of one Sims a Shoomaker of Hampton with his examination , ( who goes about as an emissary all the West over ) being apprehended by authority , p. 50. A Relation of M. Sickmoore● baptizing John Sims , p. 51. Animadversions by way of confutation on a Letter of a ●●e Sectary , p. 61. A Relation of severall Positions laid down by M. Dell and preached before the Generall , p. 63. A Relation of a story of one M. Kendall a great Sectary who hath renounced his Ministry turned Captain , when a godly Minister was to preach he stepped up before him , p. 70. 80. A Relation of a story of some Sectaries who refuse to keepe Fast daies or daies of Thankesgiving , because they will not give thanks for killing men , who affirme they have seen Christ and the Devill . p. 80. A Relation of a young maid of 16. yeares of age that preaches . p. 86. A Relation of a Minister who boasted he had pulled downe the Bishops , and hoped to do as much for the Presbyterians , p. 81. A Relation of an Officer in the Army who was cashiered because hee would answer the Sectaries when they spoke for their opinions and against the Presbyterians , p. 81. A Relation of severall Sectaries trades-men turned Ministers , and other Sectarian Ministers . p. 81. A Relation of a Shoomaker of Coventry who goes about the Country venting his erroneous points , p. 81. A Relation of one M. Downings preaching at Hackney , casting aspersions on the Common Councell of London , as if they were for the Cavaleers , p. 81. 82. A Relation of M. Jesse commending one Mary Abram to one M. Clark of London to look to his house , and how she worked on his son a young youth , and ( being in an Apoplexy ) to be married to her by an old schoole-master , p. 82 , 83. The Petition of Mr. Clarke to the house of Commons , p. 83 , 84. A Relation how Mary Abraham had before entangled an Apprentice , and though M. Jesse knew as much , ye● he commended her to him , and how M. Clarke found a paper in his sons chamber of her agreement with another young man , and he showing it to Mr. Jesse , he kept it and would not give it him againe , saying that this Mary Abraham had confessed her sin . p. 85. A Relation of a story concerning Henry 〈◊〉 spoken of in the first part of Gangraena , and his examination by a Justice of Peace , together with the replies made by himselfe . p. 85. 86 , 87. A Relation of a story concerning a schoole-●master of Glocester , who denies the holy Ghost to be God , though he was dealt with by all fairnesse to shew him his errours , p. 87 , 88. A Relation concerning one Andrew Debman a Cooper , who can neither write nor read , and yet is a great Preacher among she Sectaries , p. 88. A Relation of a great Sectary whose wife lay a dying , who being spoken to , to pray for her , said what good would prayer do her or them , p. 88. A Relation how that the godly Mi - A Relation of a Letter sent from Newcastle by an Independent , testifying the faithfulnesse of the Scots to the King , p. 88. ●isters of Newcastle are abused and discouraged by reason of the ●ndependents , and other great Sectaries come in their roomes , p. 89. A Relation of a story concerning M. Erburies venting of divers Errours at a meeting , p. 89. 90. Animadversions by way of confutation of the Errors vented by M. Erbury , p. 90 , 91 , 92. A Relation of one Sir Worts who would have had a place in Norfolk . but being hindred he turned Independent . p. 95. A Relation of an old Anabaptist who would oft be drunk , and then bewaile the blindnesse of the Church of England , p. 95. A Relation of a story concerning a souldier in the Army who went up into the Pulpit against the Minister his will , and being brought before the Justice carried himselfe disrespectively , for which he was committed to prison , and how released . p. 95 , 96. A Relation of some words spoken by one against the Armies going into Ireland , p. 96. A relation of one Potter a Smith now turned Preacher , who hath drawn many away to separated meetings on the Lords day , p. 96. A Relation of some souldiers that infected many where they quartered , and of their undecent carriage , p. 96. A Relation of one John Durance and of his speaking strangely concerning the King ; and that there would be no peace in England till there was a generall liberty of conscience , p. 96. 97. A Relation of one M. Larking a fierce Independent , p. 97. A Relation of a great Sectary who vented many erroneous things , and doth a great deale of hurt in Kent , p. 97. A Relation of one Brabson a great Sectary who preaches much against Tithes , p. 97 , 98. A Relation of one Cornwell a desperate Sectary , who hath put forth divers Pamphlets , p. 98. A Relation of M. Blackwood an Anabaptist , who printed a Book called the storming of Antichrist . p. 98. A Relation of what one M. Nicholas Davison who came from New-England , being required by the Independents to go to Guild-hall , said to them what hurt they did , and how divers Priests turn'd Independents , p. 98. 99. A Relation of a young man a Preacher , who lived in Holland , concerning the carriage of some English Sectaries there , and how some of them gave thanks at their meetings for soleration ( which as they heard ) had passed the House of Commons , and of their justifying M. Archers Book that makes God the author of sin , saving they could shew the copies of that , p. 99. 100. A Relation of a story concerning a Captain , who said the ●oules of the righteous go not to heaven , and his exposition on that place , Luke 24. this day thou shalt be with me in Paradice , p. 100 , 101. Animadversions on the said exposition of the Captaine , p. 101 , 102. A Relation concerning Mr. Batcheler Licenser Generall of all the Sectaries books , pleading for all manner of damnable Errours , p. 102 , 103 , 104 , 105. A Relation of the names of some notorious Sectaries , p. 105. A Relation concerning one Carter a Sectarie . p. 105. A Relation concerning divers Sectaries , M. Peters converts , and one M. Bunniard who will not keepe Fast-daies , but his folkes work on the Fasts , p. 105. A Relation concerning one Oats a a Weaver , who was arraigned upon his life for dipping one who dyed within 14. daies , and one reasoning with him , saying that Rebaptization was the way to destroy the creature , and the answer made by one , p. 105 , 106. A Relation concerning a Captaine who speake desperately against the City Remonstrance , p. 106. A Relation concerning some of the Sectaries that said they would not tolerate the Presbyterians , p. 106. A Relation concerning a Captain who preacheth on the Lords daies and puts the Minister by ( though a godly man ) p. 107. A Relation concerning a Sectary who said Christs righteousnesse was a beggerly righteousnesse . p. 107. A Relation concerning a Sectary who affirmed Adultery and Drunkennesse to be no sin , and maintained divers other errours , p. 107. A Relation concerning divers Troopers in the Army that hold very desperate and divellish opinions , p. 107. A Relation concerning M. Burroughs who spoke against the City for their unthankfulnesse to the Army , and spoke strange passages against the City Remonstrance , p. 107 , 108. A Relation concerning M. Symonds of Sandwich , who said they should be damned that had opportunity to come into their Church-way and would not , and of his foule speech towards a godly Minister , p. 108 , 109. A Relation concerning some Sectaries in the Army , who said , what had they fought for all this while if the Presbyteriall Government be setled , &c. p. 110. A Relation concerning one Crab a dipper , who spoke very disdainfully of the King , p. 110. A Relation concerning a Lievtenant a great Sectarie , who holds himselfe able to dispute with the whole Assembly , he hath often preached in his scarlet Cloake with silver lace , p. 111. A Relation concerning one Webb who preached blasphemy , p. 111. A Relation of a Manuscript made by some of the Magistrates of New-England ( as it was thought ) for an arbitrary Government in the Common-wealth . p. 111 , 112. A Relation of a Sectary who married a woman and went away from her , and will not live with her , and how the Church whereof hee is maintains him in it , p. 112 , 113. A Relation concerning M. Saltmarsh preaching , and of strange things delivered by him , and how he said John Baptists Doctrine was a Leatherne Doctrine , p. 113 , 114. A Relation concerning Cretensis and his Errors , with some briefe Animadversions on his 38. Quaeries , and Opinions , ▪ p. 114 , 115 , 116 , 117 , 118 , 119 , 120. A Relation concerning M. Peters relating many of his speeches and passages in his Sermons , together with an answer to a Pamphlet of M. Peters entituled , M. Peters last Report of the English Wars , from page 120. to p. 147. A Relation of M. Treake , and of opinions that he holds , and of some Articles put up against him , p. 147 , 148. A Relation concerning Richard Overton who hath printed many scandalous things against the House of Peers , and many desperate Pamphlets scoffing and scorning of them , and his behaviour to the House of Commons and his ill speech of the Ministery , p. 148. 149 , 150 , 151 , 152. A Relation concerning John Lilburn an Arch-Sectarie who hath printed divers desperate Pamphlets abusing the House of Lords and divers others , p. 153 , 154 , 155 , 156. 157 , 158 , 159 , 160. A Relation concerning John Price , M. Goodwins Disciple , and of some of his opinions , p. 160 , 161 , 162. A Relation of Mr. Cradock and of some things he hath preached , p. 162. Animadversions on something preached by M. Sympson at Black-Fryers , p. 164. The Relation of a story of the beating of a march of a Drum heard in the Chappell of Duckingfield by the Independents at a meeting there , with Animadversions on that story , p. 164 , 165. A Relation of a Petition on foot by some Sectaries for a Toleration , p. 166 , 167. A Relation of a story of one Andrew Wike , p. 169 , 170. A Relation of a story of Katherine Chidley and her sons being at Bury in Suffolke , and of Gaffer Lanceter of Bury , and his Pamphlet entituled Lanceters Launc● , p. 170. 171. A relation of a Quarter-Masters preaching , and of his telling the people he had a command from the spirit to preach and was under the command of the spirit , p. 172. A Relation of words spoken by a Captain in the Army concerning the decolling of the King , p. 172. A Relation of a Trooper in Northhamptonshiere standing up in the Church , and speaking to a Minister , questioning his Doctrine , as also some souldiers wounding a Ministers son in that County . p. 173. A Relation of a Captaine speaking how they would come against the City of London , if the House of Commons should give order so to do , p. 174. A Relation of a Sectary saying of the Ordinance of Tythes the Parliament made an Ordinance to rob men , and calling those Theeves and Robbers who executed it , and of his arresting the Justices of Peace and the Distrainers , p. 175. A Relation of an Independent Commander , declaring they were against Independent Government as well as Presbyteriall , if it should be settled , they were for liberty of conscience that no man should be tied to any thing , p. 175. Animadversions on a Libellous Pamphlet entituled , The Lord Mayors farewell from his Office of Majoral-ty , p. 175 , 176 , 177 , 178. A Relation of the true Reason , why breaches have been prevented in the Army , there being so many Sectaries in it , namely the great forbearance , patience , the passing by provocations and abuses , p. 179 , 180. A Justification of that passage in the City Remonstrance , that no Sectaries should be in places of publike trust , and what some of the Independents opinions was of that heretofore as most equall , p. 180 , 181. and a laying open the necessity of the Remonstrance taking place in that , and what if no Justice nor good can be expected , p. 181 , 182. A Relation of a Discourse between a Citizen and an Independent concerning the King , and of the Independents interpretation of the Covenant concerning that part of it , of defending the Kings Person , p. 183 , 184. A Relation of the Libertinisme and Atheisme of the Sectaries . p. 185 , 186 , 187. A Relation of the many kinds of uncleannesses of the Sectaries , as Incest , &c. p. 187 , 188 , 189 , 190. A Relation of the drunkennesse of the Sectaries . p. 190 , 191. A Relation of the loosenesse of the Sectaries . p. 191. A Relation of the Sectaries couzening and deceiving . p. 191 , 192. A Relation of the Sectaries grosse lying , and slandering . p. 192. A Relation of the pride of the Sectaries and boasting in armes of flesh . p. 192 , 193. A Relation of the Sectaries unsufferable insolencies and horrible affronts to Authority , particularly , 1. Against the Lawes of the Land , both Common and Statute , p. 194 , 195. 2. Against the King , 195 , 196. 3. Against the House of Peers , 196 , 197 , 198 , 199 , 200 , 201 , 202. 4. Against the House of Commons , 203 , 204 , 205 , 206 , 207 , 208 , 209 , 210 , 211 , 212 , 213. 5. Against many particular Members of both Houses by name , 213 , 214. Against Committees of both Houses , 214 , 215. Against both Houses as conjunct in their Authority and Power , p. 216 , 217 , 218 , 219 , 220 , 221 , 222 , 223. Against our Brethren of Scotland , p. 224 , 225 , 226 , 227. Against the City of London , p. 228 , 229. Against the Assembly , p. 230. Against the Ministers of the Kingdome , p. 230 , 231. Against the Reformed Churches , p. 231. Against inferiour Magistrates and Courts , p. 231 , 232 , 233 , 234 , 235 , 236 , 237 , 238 , 239 ▪ 240. Among all the wickednesses of the Sectaries , the Reader may observe these six following particulars : 1. How they make it their worke to destroy and overthrow Religion , p. 233 , 234 , 235 , 236. 2. How that when the King cast himselfe into the armes of our Brethren of Scotland , they wished he had gone rather to France or Ireland , p. 236. 237. 3. Their evill carriage towards our Brethren of Scotland , p. 237 , 238 , 239. 4. Their prodigious carriage toward the Kingdome of Ireland , p. 239 , 240. 5. Their damnable hypocrisie and dissimulation , p. 240. and that in seven particulars , 6. Their contemning and abusing Gods Ministers . A Relation of a Sectaries grosse couzening one to whom he owed 50. pounds , the latter end of the sheet . A Relation concerning some passages spoken in a Sermon by M. Knollys an Anabaptist , p. 241. A Relation of some passages delivered in divers Sermons by M. Symonds , p. 241 , 242. Animadversions on M. Burtons Conformities Deformity , p. 243 , 244 , 245. Certaine Quaeries propounded to M. Burton , to shew him how he is mistaken , p. 247 , 248. A Relation concerning Green a Felt-maker , that preaches in an Alley in Colemans-street , p. 248 , 249. A Relation concerning some Letters writ to worthy Members of the House of Commons , Members of the Assembly , and other Ministers , by godly Ministers , concerning the abuses done by the souldiers in the Army , p. 249 , 250 , 251 , 252 , 253 , 254. A Relation concerning one in Authority , and what trickes and devices he used to bring one in to be a Burgesse of Parliament , p. 255 , 256. Certaine Corollaries drawne from the Errours and Heresies laid downe in this Booke . Corol. 1. Shewes that by the insolent proceedings of the Sectaries those places of Scripture in Timothy and Peter are made good , and fulfilled in our Sectaries , p. 256 , 257 , 258. Corol. 2. Shewes that Errors and corrupt Doctrine produce a wicked life , and loosenesse of manners , p. 258 , 259 , 260 , 261. Corol. 3. Shewes that many of the Sectaries are not onely against Church-Government , but against Civill Government , p. 261 , 262 , 263. Corol. 4. Shewes that our evills are not taken away , but only changed , p. 263. Corol. 5. Shewes into what a condition we are fallen , and from what fallen , that we can doe and suffer such things as we do , p. 573 , 294. Corol. 6. Shewes what a great plague and judgement to the Land so many Sectaries in the Army are , p. 265 , 266 , 267. Corol. 7. Shewes that never in any Age , or any Christian State , there hath been such a sufferance and Toleration as hath been , and is in our Kingdome , p. 268. 269 , 270. Corol. 8. Shewes that the Sectaries though they will receive Liberty of Conscience , yet they will not give it to others where they have power , p. 271 , 272. Corol. 9. Shews ( as in a glasse ) the true cause of all our present evills to be a love of Sectarisme , and Errours p. 27. Corol. 10. Shewes well-meaning men ▪ should learne to be undeceived , p. 278. A Postscript , in which the Reader hath an account given him of many Pamphlets put forth against Mr. Edwards since he writ the second part of Gangraena , and some brief Animadversions upon them all , as M. Burroughs Vindication , Gangraena playes Rex , M. Saltmarsh's Shadowes flying away , &c. A Relation of the Names and of the Speeches , and doings of the principall Independents and Sectaries spoken of in this Booke . Mr. Jesse , page 19. 82. 85. Mr. Knollys , p. 19. p. 48. 241. M. Peters , p. 24. 27. 76 , 77. 120 , 121 , 122 , 123 , 124 , 125 , 126 , 127 , 128 , 129 , 130 , 131 , 132 , 133 , 134 , 135 , 136 , 137 , 138 , 139 , 140 , 141 , 142 , 143 , 144 , 145 , 146. M. Tandy , p. 54 ▪ 57 , 58. George Young , p. 64. M. Dell , p. 63 , 64. 213. 262. M. Randall , p. 25. Thomas Collyer , p. 27 , 28 , 29 , 51 , 52. William Bowling , and his errours , p. 35 , 36 , 37. Captain Paul Hobson the Taylor , p. 45. 49. John Sims a Shoomaker , p. 50. 〈◊〉 ●●ckmoore . p. 51. John P●●le , p. 54. Floid a Preacher , p. 62. Matthewes , p. 66. M. Eaton , p. 68. 264. M. Saltmarsh , p. 72. 75 , 76. 113 , 114. Lamb , p. 78. 113. Kiffin , p. 78. Turner , p. 78. M. Kendall , p. 79. Thomas Moore , p. 80. M. Wainwright , p. 81. Heath a Collar maker , p. 81. Rice a Tinker , p. 81. Field a Bodiesmaker , p. 81. Crew a Taylor , p. 81. M. Feake , p. 81. 147. M. Harrison , p. 81. M. Downing , p. 81 , 82. Henry Den , p. 85 , 86 , 87. M. Beedle of Glocester , p. 87. Andrew Debman , p. 88. M. Erbury , p. 89 , 90. 250. Sir Worts , p. 95. Potter a Smith , p. 96. John Durance , p. 96 , 97. M. Larkin , p. 97. M. Powell , p. 97. Brabson , p. 97 , 98. Cornwell , p. 98. M. Blackwood , p. 98. M. Batcheler , p. 102 , 103 , 104 , 105. Dagnall a Bookseller , p. 105. Barre a Weaver , p. 105. Hich . p. 105. Carter , p. 105. M. Bunniard , p. 105. M. Postlethwait , p. 105. M. Cra●ts , p. 105. Oats a Weaver , p. 105 , 106. Tench , p. 106. M. Burroughs , p. 107 , 108. 118 , 119. 164. 180. 181 , M. Symonds , p. 108. 131. Crab , p. 110. Thomas We●b , p. 111. Blunt , p. 112. Emmes , p. 112. Wrighter , p. 112. Cretensis , p. 114 , 115 , 116 , 117 , 118 , 119 , 120. 159 , 160 , 161. M. Cradock , p. 131. 163. Richard Overton , p. 148 , 149 , 150 , 151 , 152. John Lilburne , p. 153 , 154 , 155 , 156 , 157 , 158 , 159 , 160 , 262 ▪ John Price , p. 160 , 161 , 162. M. Sympson , p. 163. Andrew Wicke , p. 169 , 170. Katherine Chidley , p. 170 , 171. John Hall , p. 171. Lanceter , p. 170 , 171. M. Symonds , p. 241 , 242. M. Burton , p. 242 , 243 , 244 , 245 , 246 , 147. Greene the Felt-maker , p. 248. Spencer a Coachman , p. 249. Gorton . p. 249. Lievtenant John Web , p. 251 , 252. 254. Colonell John Hewson , p. 252 , 253. Major Axton , p. 253. Margeret North , p. 253. A New and further DISCOVERY OF The Errors , Heresies , Blasphemies and Proceedings of the Sectaries of these times . HAving given the Reader an account in my First and Second Parts of Gangraena of many of the Errors , Heresies , Blasphemies , and pernicious Practises of the Sectaries , I shall now proceed to adde divers more Errors , Blasphemies and insolent unheard of Practices , by all which the Reader may observe those words of Paul fulfilled in our times , viz. that evill men and Seducers shall wax worse and worse , deceiving , and being deceived , and that place speaking of false Teachers and Doctrines , for they will increase unto more ungodlinesse , and their word will eate as doth a Gangrene , and in this Third Part I shall more particularly and largely set downe the corrupt Opinions and Principles that have been vented against the Civill Magistrate , and the Government of Common-wealths , as also relate more Practises and insolencies of those Sectaries who are Souldiers , and belonging to the Army , then I did in the former Parts : And first of all I shall lay down the erroneous Opinions not enumerated in the former Catalogues , which being added to the two hundred and fourteen set down in the First and Second Parts will amount with those in the Appendix too , to neer upon three hundred . The third Catalogue of the Errors , Heresies , and strange Opinions of the Sectaries of these times . 1. THat God hath a bodily shape and proportion : man was made according to the likenesse of God in personall shape , and God the Creator beareth the same form in shape and person which man hath . This Opinion was held by some Hereticks in the fourth Century , first known by the name of Audiani , and afterwards call'd Anthropomorphitae . Augustine in his Book de Haeresibus ad Quodvult Deum , cap. 50. writes of them , Audianos quos appellant , alii vocant Anthropomorphitas , quoniam Deum sibi fingunt cogitatione carnali in similitudinem imaginis corruptibilis hominis . Theodoret in his fourth Book Haeret. Fabul . writes there was one Audaeus , who said God was like to man , and gave to God the parts of a man , who fell into this Error by his misunderstanding of those places of Scripture , which speak of God according to mans understanding . Danaeus in his Tractate de Haeresibus ▪ fully confutes this Opinion , and shows the story of it ; and in that , this Heresie should be now pleaded for in Print , it shows us how the Devill in these times revives old Errors dead and buried for many hundred yeers . 2. The story of Adams eating the forbidden fruit , and of the Serpent , is an Allegory ; by the Serpent in that place is no other then concupiscence , and by the fruit of the tree , some other eating then the eating of a materiall Apple is understood . This also is an Error revived , held by David George , who lived a hundred yeers ago : In David Georges life written in Latin by his sonne in law Nicolaus Blesdikius , pag. 161 , 162. 't is related that by the Serpent entising our first Parents , he meant concupiscence , and pleads for an * allegoricall interpretation of the Serpent , because the Historicall Narration of the Serpent , as it is laid down by Moses , ( saith David George ) draws divers absurdities with it . 3. In marriage there are no degrees of bloud or affinity forbidden , but a man may marry the next of kin to him ; a brother may marry his Sister , an Uncle his Neece , a Sonne his Fathers Wife , and so in any degrees without exception ; so that if this liking to marry happen betwixt the nearest of kindred , then it is also the most naturall , the most lawfull , and according to the Primitive purity and practise . The maine scope of this booke called Little Nonsuch , or certaine new questions , is to plead for Incestuous Marriages , where the Author sets himselfe to evade all the Scriptures in the Old and New Testament , saying , T is not marriage simply with Sisters , Brothers Wives , &c. that is forbidden , so long as a man keeps wholly to such a one having taken her for wife , but the committing fornication with them not being married . Now I shall show the falsenesse of this by two Scriptures , The first in Leviticus 18. where both in the generall , verse 6. and in particular the several degrees are forbidden expressely , verse 7. 8 , 9 , 10 , &c. of the Fathers wife , of the Sister , of the Fathers Sister , &c. And whereas the Author of that wicked Pamphlet pleads , that uncovering of nakednesse is meant of fornication only , and not of marriage : I Answer , The Holy Ghost in that Chapter expounds the uncovering of nakednesse to be marrying , verse the 18. and makes taking to wife and uncovering nakednesse to be the same , as is evident by these words , Neither shalt thou take a Wise to her Sister to vex her , to uncover her nakednesse besides the other in her life time : that is , either thou shalt not take one wife to another , marrying another wife having one , or else marrie the sister of thy wife whether she be sister by mother or by the father . Againe , the holy Ghost in this Chapter forbids that which is unlawfull with some kind of persons , and not with all , and at some times and not at others ; therefore limits it to such a sort of persons , such degrees of bloud ; but now fornication is unlawfull with all , and at all times , a man may not uncover the nakednesse , that is , commit fornication with those who are remotest in bloud or affinity , and that it must be understood so is evident from the 19. verse , * Thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover ●er nakednesse as long as she is put apart for her uncleanesse ; that is , every man was to abstaine from his own wife during the time of her monthly fluors , which necessarily showes t is meant of a mans wife , for from all other women a man must abstaine alwayes , and t is never lawfull to approach to them , but even from a mans owne wife over who●e body he hath power at other times , he is then to abstaine . Lastly , the holy Ghost comes to speak of fornication , verse 20. Thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbours wise : There he forbids fornication , but in the former part of the Chapter he for bad Incest and Incestuons marriages . The other Scripture is in the New Testament , Mark 6. 17 , 18. verses , where John tell● Herod t is not lawfull for him to have his brother Philips wife ; and this cannot be evaded , by saying John reproved Herod , taking her by force , or living in fornication with her ; but not barely for marriage with her : For the text faith expresly he had married her , and she was willing to it as appears by the story , because she had a quarrell against John Baptist , and would have killed him for preaching to Herod against it , and afterwards watched her opportunity of revenge against John , verse 19. 24 preferring his head before halfe of the Kingdome . I have been the larger in this Animadversion , because divers Sectaries a● guilty of Incestuous marriages ; I have the names of three Independents given me out of one County who have married incestuously . 4. That our common food , ordinary eating and drinking , is a Sacrament of Christs death , and a remembrance of his death till his coming againe . 5. That the Souls of the Saints departed now in Heaven , are on Earth everywhere present with their friends , and with all the affairs of this world , seeing and knowing them ; though in a spirituall manner , and not in so grosse a way as when they were living upon earth ; for look as the Saints whilst they were on earth in their bodies , yet were in Heaven in their Conversations : So now , though they ●e in He 〈…〉 , yet they are on Earth with their friends , and know their state and condition . Doth not this Doctrine open a gap for prayer to the dead ? what bred and nourished prayer to Saints departed but this ? and is not this a great ground of it among the Papists at this day ? if this were true , would it not put men upon praying to Saints whom they familiarly knew and were interrested in , as their fathers , mothers , &c. A godly and able Minister who was at this Sermon , professed to me and another Minister discoursing of the Sermon , That if he beleeved this Doctrine to be true , he should pray to his Father to remember and pray for him ; and the Papists generally as Bellarmine and others urge this as an argument for Prayer to Saints because they know our affairs and the condition of things belowe : unto which the Protestants generally Answer , That the Saints departed know not our wants , nor what is done in the earth : and in Answer to that Argument , The Saints on earth pray for one another : Ergo , much more we should desire the prayers of the Saints departed : Among other Answers they still give this , We may request the prayers of one another , because we know our mutuall necessities , but the Saints departed know not what things are done here upon earth , neither are every where present to hear ou● prayers . The holy Ghost tells us , Isaiah 63 ▪ 16. that Abraham is ignorant of us , and Israel knows us not : Upon which Augustine writes thus , If so great Patriarck● were ignorant what became of the people which were borne of their loi●es ; how is it like that other dead can be present to understand and be helping to mens affairs ▪ So Job saith of them who are dead , His sonnes come to honour and 〈◊〉 knoweth it not , and they are brought lowe but be perceiveth it not ; Job 14. verse 21. But for confutation of this Popish opinion , I referre the Reader to Willets Synopsis the much generall Controversie concerning the Saints departed , quest . 3. to Amesius his Bellar. E●ervatus Tom. 2 〈…〉 de Invocatione Sa●ctorum , and to learned Rivers Catholicus Orthodoxus Tract . 2. Quest . 48. 6. The glorified Souls now in Heaven see in Christ as in a glasse the state of the whole Church on Earth , all their joyes to rejoyce with them , and all their griefs and troubles , though not to greive with them . This is B 〈…〉 nes opinion , an brought by him as a ground for the Invocation of Saints , became at once they see in God as in a glasse all things here belowe , and so the prayers of the faithfull directed to them . Of the manner how the Saints in Heaven know the prayers of the living , Bellarmine ▪ sets down four opinons of the wayes how ; 1 Some say they know them by the relation of Angels . 2 Others say , the Souls of the Saints by their wonderfull celerity and agility are in a sort every where and so know . 3 Many hold , the Saints see at once in God as in aglasse all things which concerne them , and so the prayers directed to them . I astly , others say , they know them by speciall revelation from God , when they are prayed , as Elisha knew Ge●azies corruption , and Samuel knew Sauls estate . Now the Third , the beholding in God as in a glasse the prayers of the living , Bellarmine adheres to as the most probable ; so that this 6th Error , and Bellarmines agrees fully : but for confutation of this Error , let the Reader read our Protestants in Answer to Bellarmine upon this question : As Amesius Bellar. Enervat . Willets Synopsis , with many others . 7 The glorified Souls who are in Heaven , doe now with Christ govern and rule the Kingdomes of the Earth and all the affairs here belowe ; for proofe of which was brought these Texts as I remember , Revelation 3. 21. To him that overcometh will I grant to ●it with me in my throne . Rev. 2. 26. And he that overcometh to him will I give power over the nations . This also is a Popish Errour brought to strengthen prayer to Saints ; for seeing it were a vaine thing to pray to them if they had not power to help , they therefore are urged to confesse that the Saints are patrons of men , and have the government of the world committed to them , and Bellarmine with the Rhemists bring this Scripture out of the Rev. To him that overcometh will I give power over nations ; Ergo , the Saints have the government of men committed to them : But the Answer to this Scripture and such like , the Reader may find at large in Willets Synopsis ninth gener . Controversie , quest . 3. the third part of the question , whether the Saints departed understand our prayers and be alwayes at hand to help us , and thither I refer him . 8 * That the Angels dwell in the glorified Souls of the Saints departed . 9. * That Johns Baptisme which was by water , did end at the coming of Christ , and that there is no Baptisme by water instituted by Christ . Animad . This Error is both printed and licensed , Web professes he should account me as his Father in Christ to convince him of the contrary by Scripture , and this Error receives much countenance from Master Saltmarsh in his Smoak in the Temple , pag. 16. in saying those Scriptures of Matthew 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Go and teach all Nations Baptizing them , &c. are not understood of baptizing with water , but the Spirits baptizing , or the Baptisme of the holy Ghost , and therefore I shall animadvert upon it . For the first branch of this Error , that Johns Baptisme which was by water , did end at the coming of Christ , and so makes Johns Baptisme of another kind then Christs , and divers from it , 't is a Popish Error and confuted by all our Protestant Divines in handling of the question of Baptisme , who hold generally against the Papists , That Johns Baptisme was not divers from Christs Baptisme , but was all one with it in property and effect , and that they who were baptized by John , needed not to be baptized again ; and for satisfaction I referre the Reader to Willets Synopsis twelfth generall controversie of the Sacrament of Baptisme , Quest . 7. where the arguments pro & contra by Papists and Protestants are set down , and to learned * Rivets Catholicus Orthodoxus Tract . 3. Quaest . 2. where against the Jesuite he learnedly maintains the Baptisme of John to be a Sacrament of the Gospel , and that Christs Baptisme differs no more from Johns , then it doth from the Baptisme of other Ministers , and that Johns Baptisme differed nothing from Christs , but in respect of time and clearnesse of signification , which before the manifestation of Christ was not so great as it was after it ; and in this respect the Baptisme of the Apostles before the death of Christ was different from the Baptisme administred by them after his death . As for that Web●aith ●aith , that Johns Baptisme which was by water , did end at the coming of Christ , 't is apparently false , for Christ himself a little before his beginning to preach , was baptised with Johns Baptisme , which was by water , Matthew 3. from verse 13. to 17. and after Christ preached and call'd Apostles , they baptized with water , and baptized more Disciples then John ; compare John 3. verse 22 , 33. with John 4. verse 1 , 2. and it was a baptizing with water as those words show , J●●●s and his Disciples baptized , and John was also baptizing in Aenon because there was much water there , so that it was such a baptizing as Johns , viz. by water , and the place to do it in chosen , because there was much water . And lastly , 't is apparent by the Scripture , that a Baptisme by water was used by the Apostles and in the Primitive Apostolicall Churches , not only since the coming of Christ and his preaching in his own person , but since his going away , since his Resurrection and Ascension , and for that I will name three Scripture , Acts 8. 36. 37 , 31 , 39. Philip baptizes the Eunuch with water upon beleeving , after Christs Ascension . Acts 10. 47 , 48. Those Gentiles who were baptized with the holy Ghost , verse 45. on whom was poured out the gift of the holy Ghost , these men were baptized with water , as those words demonstratively prove , verse 47. Can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , which have received the holy Ghost as well as we ? And he commanded them to be baptized , So that this Scripture takes away that foundation that Christs Baptisme , and the Baptisme he spoke of in Matth. 28. 19. &c. was a being baptized with the gifts of the holy Ghost , and not with water ; for here we see Peter commands those baptized with the gifts of the holy Ghost to bee baptized with water , and takes it for granted , such persons are to be baptized , Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized ? 1 Pet. 20. 21. The like figure whereunto , even Baptism doth also now save us , not the putting away of the filth of the flesh . This Epistle was written long after the Ascension , yet even then now Baptism saves , and it was such a Baptism like unto that where in eight souls were saved by water , so that it must be a baptism by water , and those words clearly prove it not the putting away the filth of the flesh which is done by water , which shows that in the baptism under the N. Testament since Christs death , Resurrection and Ascention , we must look for more then the washing of the outward man by water , namely the Answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ ; but however more then water , yet water is necessarily supposed . 10. That it is injustice in God to punish the souls of the wicked in Hell while their bodies lie at rest in their graves , for seeing both were sinners together , both must be sufferers together ; if God should punish the soul of C 〈…〉 in Hell five or six thousand yeers before he punisheth the body of Cain , he then would show himself partiall in his distribution of justice . 11. That the devils are mortall as well as men are in their bodies . 12. * That Adams righteousnesse in innocency was but flesh , and opposed to the spirit . 13. Some of the Manifestarians hold that they have seene Christ visibly , and seen the Devill also . 14. That 't is unlawfull to keep dayes of Thanksgiving , to give thanks to God for Victories for one mans killing another . 15. There is no such office as the Ministry , its blasphemy for any one to say that he is a Minister of Iesus Christ more then any other man ; such an office was , but it s ceased . 16. That there is no need of Universities , that Universities are of the Devill ; that humane learning is flesh opposed to the spirit , and that if men be anointed with the spirit , and accepted amongsts the Saints , they are sufficiently qualified . 17. That beleevers ought not to be troubled or grieved for whatsoever sins or evills they saw committed by any , because that God if he would could hinder them , he had power and wisdom enough to hinder them , and to make things otherwise ; and therefore if he saw not good to hinder them , what should they trouble themselves about them ? 18. That Pigeons in Dove Houses are common for all men to take and eat them , as well as those who are owners of those Dove Houses , because Pigeons are fowls of the aire , and so common to the sons of men . 19. That 't is unlawfull to eat things strangled , as fowls whose necks are broken and wrung about , and not cut off . 20. That there is no Predestination nor Election at all . 21. * That Gods eternall Election is of all men , one as well as another . 22. * That many shall be actually saved who are not elected ; and they who preach none shall he saved but the elect and predestinate , are notable lyars . 23. * There is a two-fold eternall life and salvation , a more glorious salvation , so as to make them instruments of salvation unto the whole Creation , and that belongs to the elect and predestinate ; and a lesse glorious salvation , which belongs to them who are not prede●tinate . 24. That all the Heathen shall be saved , because they are not guilty of unbelief , never hearing of Christ . 25. That God is in our flesh as much as in Christs flesh , he is as much in the flesh of the members , as in the Head. 26. That all shall be saved at last , both all men and devils : Christ by suffering hath merited for the transgressions of his Creation , Angels and Mankind , and all immortall Spirits , paying the price of our transgressions , and the transgressions of all Angels , Spirits , and Mankind , sealing the pardon of all with his bloud ; the reprobate condition of men and Angels shall be regained , cursednesse shall be taken away , death and hell shall be destroyed , the grave shall deliver up the dead , all shall be created anew to life and immortality : The damned prisoners shall be sent forth out of the pit wherein there is no water by the power of the Holy Ghost , who will maintain and make use of the bloud of Christ , shewing it to be the holy Covenant of generall Redemption . 27. They are the great Antichrist , and deny the whole Christ ; God , and their own salvation , who deny the Covenant of generall Redemption of all men , devils , and the whole Creation . 28. Christ descended into hell to break the bands of the damned , preaching peace unto them ; and for the proving it these Scriptures are wrested , 1 Pet. 3. 18. Ephes . 4. 9. 10. Z●ch . 9. 11. 29. The Devils for a time have damned themselves for not beleeving , nor receiving this truth in obedience to the Gospel of Generall Redemption , that God hath made all perfect to himself in Christ , and paid a price for the sins of all , being by Christ justly condemned for their unbelief and disobedience , in not obeying the Gospel of peace , righteousnesse , and love to God and our fellow creatures . 30. The true Christian working faith which the Holy Ghost commends so much unto all in Scripture , and calls for at the hands of all in case of salvation receiving it , or damnation in refusing it , ( for the want of which millions of thousands were damned for a time , though not damned to perish for ever , for there is none can be damned totally ) is to beleeve the Covenant of Generall Redemption , that all shall be eternally saved , both men and devils , and shall see , feel , and possesse the blessednesse of it to their everlasting salvation and comfort . This is the true Christian working faith that removes the mountains of sins not only for our selves but for others ; and that faith which talks much of Christ , and preaches that none can be saved but by faith , and denyes this work of Generall Redemption , is a formall faith , is a very mystery of iniquity , and proclaimes openly against Gods love and perfection unto his whole Creation in Christ . 31. This true faith of beleeving the Covenant of Generall Redemption though it were but in a few , in three persons onely in the world , yet this faith in these persons should save all the rest of the Creation : These beleevers are that seed of blessednesse unto all the Creation with them , in them , and by them : they are made instrumentall meanes of God through Christ onely by beleeving and declaring his goodnesse , and in their spirits contesting with God for his Jehovah mercies towards the rebellious , they are made instruments of blessing unto the whole Creation , although there should be but three in the earth . This Christian faith is of power to bring all things to life , If there were but three persons in the whole world that had it in possession ; it receiveth all things from God in Christ , and works through God himselfe , it is perfect unto all in Christ from God : In due time the Lord will bring it unto its full birth , to the breaking up of the gates of hell , and meeting Christ in the generall resurrection shall receive life and power to immortalize all things . 32. That Christ shed his bloud for kine and horses and all other creatures , as well as for men ; for the proving of which that Scripture is miserably perverted , Rom. 8. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22. Animadvers . These Errors last set down from the 26. to 32. are not onely ( viz. some of them ) old Errours revived , held formerly by those Hereticks call'd Origenistae and Adamantii , who denyed the punishments of reprobate men and of devills to be eternall , and that after a time they should all be saved , ( of which the Reader may see more in Augustine de Haeresibus , and in Danaeus Commentaries upon him ) nor only against some expresse Scriptures , as Jude vers . 6. 2 Pet. 2. 4. Mat. 25. 41. ( which unanswerably hold out these three things ; First , that the devills have not all their punishment , nor the greatest part whilst this world lasts , but howsoever they are now in darknesse , and in chains , they are reserved to have their full doom at the day of judgement : Secondly , that doom and sentence at the day of judgement both upon devills and ungodly men is eternall and everlasting : Thirdly , that eternall cannot be taken for a long time , or a time till such a period , but for ever and ever without end ; and the last appears thus , First , because this sentence is something more and further then yet they have suffered , 't is spoken of as reserved for it ; now the devills have suffered a long time , many thousand years before the day of judgement comes , almost six thousand years already , besides what 's to come , and if their doom were but for a long time after , it would be but like that which is past , a long time in both : Secondly , at the day of judgement that which is ●alled everlasting , eternall , must needs be properly so , and not taken for a long time , as sometimes 't is so taken for long times whilst this world stood , because then the stage of this world is pull'd down , and time in which things were measured shall be no more , no more night nor day , summer nor winter , 2 Pet. 3. 7 , 10 , 11 , 12. The heavens and the earth which are now are reserved unto fire against the day of judgement ; the heavens shall passe away , the elements shall melt with fervent heat , the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up , all these things shall be dissolved , and whatever hath a being after the day of judgement is eternall and for ever ; so Revel . 10. 6. there should be time no longer , which some interpret , there shall be no time , because time shall be finished and this variety of dayes and nights , moneths and years , and an unchangeable eternity shall follow in the dayes of the seventh Angel : but whether that be the meaning or no of the * place , this is certain , that after the end of this world and the generall Judgement there will be an abolition of time , and an eternity follow ; and therefore eternall fire , and eternall chains , both for devills and ungodly men , cannot be meant of a long time , but simply of eternall , à parte post . Thirdly , there 's the same reason in every respect why eternall for judgement , fire , destruction , should be taken in the same sense that eternall is when joyned to life , kingdome , &c. but there 't is taken not for a long-lasting time , but properly for everlasting , and therefore must of necessity be so here ; and whatever colour , glosse , or evasion can be brought to evade that of hell torments , damnation , that they should not be eternall , the same will lie as strong against the eternall life and kingdome given to the Saints ) but they overthrow the whole doctrine of faith , break that golden chain of salvation in the eighth of the Romanes in all the links of it , Election , Vocation , Justification , Glorification ; nay further , these Errors as they are laid down , doe not onely crosse expresse Scriptures , and Articles of our Faith , but they deny salvation to all men who beleeve not those wicked doctrines , making them the great Antichrist , formall beleevers , and putting the cause of all damnation to devills and men ( viz. for so long as they are damned ) upon the not-beleeving and receiving these wicked doctrines , That all devills and men shall be saved , and that Christ paid the price , laying down his bloud for the pardon of all reprobated Men and Angels , and that the beleeving of these doctrines is the only true Christian working faith , commended so much by the Holy Ghost , and of such an efficacy , that this faith being but in two or three in the whole world , shall yet save all the rest of the Creation ; then which Doctrines and Positions nothing can be more repugnant to the Christian faith , and may properly be call'd doctrines of devills . 33. * The Trinity of Persons came downe in Christ to suffer ; Father , Sonne , and Holy Ghost suffered for their transgressing creature . 34. There is a private Kingdom of Christs justice in which he sat Judge over the quick and dead to condemne and execute torments on the rebellious whom he held as prisoners for a time , and there is Christs publick Kingdome , to which the Private Kingdome must give place ; and as the Father hath given it to Christ to rule it for ever , so Christ hath committed it to the Holy Ghost to enliven all things , to bring up all to life and immortality , and the Holy Ghost for the Father and the Son shall execute the judgement of love and mercies unto all for the destroying of death , of hell . 35. * That t is unlawfull to pray unto God kneeling . 36. * That Organs are a sanctified adjunct in the service of God now under the Gospel , and that if any man in the Church had a gift of making Hymner , he might bring them in to be sung with Organs or other Instruments of musick . In severall ages of the Church , wanton men who could not be content with the simplicity of the Gospel , have brought both into doctrines of Faith and Worship such opinions and practises still as have been most suitable to their genius and education , to the principles of such Arts and Sciences in which they were versed , as Origen and some others versed in Plato's Philosophy , brought in opinions into the Church according to Plato's doctrine ; Some who have been much addicted to Painting and Imagery , they have brought in Images into the Church ; and now some of our Independents having fancies in Musick singing , taking great delight in that way , they have pleaded for and brought into the Church Hymnes and Musick . 37. * That Adultery is no Sin , and that Drunkenesse is none neither , but a help to see Christ the better by it . 38. * Though consent of Parents unto Childrens marriage was commanded under the Law , to them that lived then ; yet because that was but a ceremony , t is now lawfull to marry without their consent , because we live under the Gospel . 39. a Christs death and sufferings were endured for to be our example , not to purchase heaven for us . 40. b That 't is not lawfull for Christians to take an oath , no not when they are called before Authority , and brought into Courts . 41. c That Christ would destroy not only unlawfull Government , but lawfull Government , not only the abuse of it , but the use of it ; he was destroying both Monarchy and Aristocracy . 42. d That the Saints , besides the spirituall Kingdome and Government of the Church of Christ , must have an externall Kingdom to possesse ; that this is the time that the Kingdome , viz. England , Scotland , and Ireland , is to be taken from him who shall arise and subdue three Kingdoms , thinking to change times and Lawes , and shall be given to the Saints . 43. e Gracious Lords , or Favourable Lords , are titles that cannot be proper amongst Christians , but are marks of Gentiles . 44. f 'T is an utter disfranchisement of the people , and a meer vassalage , for a man to Petition to Courts of Judicature , as the House of Peers , for his right , and to have justice done him : 't is no better then a branch of tyranny to force a man to turn Supplicant for his own , and of self-robbery to submit thereto : 'T is an inslaved and intolerable condition of this Nation , that indeed they cannot have their own naturall Rights and Immunities but they must be actuall Petitioners , as if their own were not their own of right , but of favour . 45. That for Crimes and Offences committed in a Common-wealth there should not be certain penalties appointed by Lawes , to which the Governours and Magistrates should be tyed , but it should be lest to the discretion and wisdome of the Magistrates to inflict what they thought fit in case of such and such Crimes ; and this liberty should be left , that a Magistrate might exercise his gifts of Government , which if he were kept strictly to the Law , how should his wisdom and gifts be manifested ? 46. That Protestant States and Parliaments have no power nor liberty to confirm and enact by Law Worship and Church-Government , composed by Protestant Synods who have an eye to the Scripture in what they doe , but the assuming of such a power , so as to enact a Law to bind all to conformity , 't is a falling under that in Esay , Their fear towards God was taught by the precept of men ; 't is with Nebuchadnezzar to erect his golden Image , with Jeroboam and his Councell to set up the golden Calves ; 't is a rejecting of Christ from being King , an utter overthrowing of the Kingly Prerogative and Office of Christ , and a destroying a foundation of faith . 47. That all Power , Places , and Offices that are just in this Kingdom , ought only to arise from the choise and election of the people , and that all the power & right any man hath in governing and ruling over those he rules , stands wholy in the choice and election of those that are ruled ; and that men need not , ought not to yeeld obedience and subjection to the Commands , Summons , Lawes , &c. of any but of those they have chosen and who are their Representers ; and to submit , yeeld obedience to any others whom they have not chosen , is inconsistent with the nature of just freedoms , and to exercise any power not derived from choice , is no lesse then usurpation and oppression . 48. That all the Legall , Supreame , Soveraigne , Regall , Legislative power of this Kingdom is in the House of Commons , the chosen Commons of England , and in no other whatsoever : there 's no other the Svpreame Court of Judicature of this Land but the House of Commons : That all Majesty and Kingship inherently residing in the people or state universall the representation or derivation of it is formally and legally in the state Representative or elect , and in none else : The Supreame power only of right belonging to the House of Commons , they only being chosen by the people . 49. That the state universall , the body of the common people is the Earthly Soveraign , Lord , King and Creator of the King , Parliaments , all Officers and Ministers of Justice : Underived Majesty and Kingship inherently resides in the state universal ; and the King Parliaments , &c. are their own meer creatures to be accountable to them , and disposed of by them at their pleasure ; the people may recall and re-assume their power , question them , and set others in their place . 50. That whatever the Fundamentall Constitutions of Kingdomes and Common wealths have been by forefathers , whatever agreements , compacts have been of subjection and obedience of such a people for themselves and posterities to one , as under Kingly government , or to more , yet the men of the present age following many hundred years after , ought to be absolutely free from what their forefathers yeelded unto , and freed from all kinds of exorbitancies , molestations , without exception or limitation , either in respect of persons , officers , degrees , or things , and estated in their naturall and just Liberties agreeable to right reason . 51. That the House of Commons cannot have any power , nor exercise any power justly , but what the people who chose them conferred upon them , and the common people having given them no power to establish Religion ( as having no such power in themselves , and therefore could not conferre that which they had not ) therefore the House of Commons cannot assume a power to controule Religion or a way of Church Government upon the people ; and although the Kings Writ for chusing Knights and Burgesses implies the establishment of Religion , yet all implications in the Writs of the Establishment of Religion showeth that in that particular , as many other , we remain under the Norman yoak of an unlawfull power from which we ought to free ourselves ; and the House of Commons ought not to maintain upon us , but to abrogate . 52. That seeing all men are by nature the Sons of Adam , and from him have legitimatly derived a naturall propriety , right , and freedom , Therefore England and all other Nations , and all particular persons in every Nation , notwithstanding the difference of Lawes and Governments , rancks , and degrees , ought to be alike free and estated in their naturall Liberties , and to enjoy the just Rights and Prerogative of mankind , whereunto they are Heirs apparent ; and thus the Commoners by right , are equall with the Lords . For by naturall birth all men are equally and alike born to like propriety , liberty , and freedom ; and as we are delivered of God by the hand of nature into this world , every one with a naturall innate freedom , and propriety , even so are we to live , every one equally and alike to enjoy his birth-right and priviledge . 53. That the body of the people may do all that lawfully of themselves , which their Deputies , Trustees , Representors , chosen ones do for them , only for greater conveniency they Depute them , and they may go no further in any thing , nor sit no longer , nor dispose of any thing but according to their Commission and power received from the Represented . I might here also annex to these Errours many strange and false Expositions of Scripture given by Sectaries in their Sermons , and Discourses ; but I will only give two or three : 1 That of * Matthew 28. v. 18. Allpower is given to me in heaven and in earth : By heaven there , is meant the uncreated heaven ; there are the created heavens , and the uncreated heaven ; here is meant the uncreated heaven , the God-head ; so that the meaning of these words is , all the uncreated power of the God-head is given to Jesus Christ . 2 That of Genesis the ninth , And surely your bloud of your lives will I require : at the hand of every beast will I require it . That by * Beast there was meant a wicked man. 3 That of Luke 24. To day shalt thou be with me in paradise ; that to day was to be referred to Christs saying so , & not to the time when he should be in Paradise , of which the Reader may find more in some following pages , 100. 101. In my First and Second Parts of Gangraena , page 28. 29. of the First Part , Third Edition , and in page 1. and 117. of the Second Part , Second Edition , I have laid down some Tenets of the Sectaries destructive to Civill Government and humane Society ; but now in this Third Part among these Errors mentioned , I have discovered much more of their Anarchicall and Antimagistraticall spirit , many of these last Errors plainly showing they are enemies to all Government , Order , and Distinction , and would bring all into a popular confusion , and reduce all Common-wealths and Kingdoms into such a condtion as they were before they had Laws , Customes of Nations , Rulers over them ; and that as often as the weak judgements and humours of the giddy in constant multitude pleased , and this spirit of Anarchy fully showes it self in many whole Books written on purpose , some Sermons , many Speeches , and in many late practises of the Sectaries . I have forborne quoting in the margine one or more particular Bookes with the Pages just against the Errours for proof , as I have done in other Errors , because not only one Book but many , not only one page but divers pages prove these Errors , the whole scope of many books and pamphlets being to maintain these eight or nine Positions last ment●oned , and for the Readers satisfaction , I referre him to these Pamphlets hereafter named , An Alarum to the House of Lords against their insolent usurpation of the Commons Liberties . A Remonstrance of many thousand Citizens , and other free-borne People of England , to their own House of Commons . A Defiance against all Arbitrary usurpations and encroachments , either of the House of Lords or any other . The just mans justification . A Pearle in a dunghill , or Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in Newgate . An Arrow against all Tyrants and Tyranny . The free mans Freedom vindicated . The just man in Bonds , or Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in Newgate . Arguments proving we ought not to part with the Militia to any other but to the Honourable House of Commons . A Petition and Appeale of Overton to the High and Mighty States , the Knights and Burgesses in Parliament assembled . A Petition of Leiutenant Colonell Lilburns wife to the chosen and betrusted Knights . The Copy of a Letter sent by Leituenant Col. Lilburne to Master Wollaston keeper of Newgate : Queries to find out who t is that holds out against the state of England . The last warning to all the inhabitants of London . In which and divers others he shall read Principles so destructive to all Government whatsoever , Democraticall , as well as Monarchicall and Aristo●taticall , that the like are not to be found in the writings of the old Anabaptists , neither ever did the old Anabaptists when they were in the power of Princes and States , and brought before their bars , ever carry themselves with that scorn and height of contempt towards them , as Lilburne , Overton , and other Sectaries have done to that High and Supreame Court of Judicature the House of Peers . And certainly if these Assertions and Positions about Magistracy and Civill Government were true and necessary , then all the Acts , Lawes , Proceedings , Processes of former Parliaments , and of this present Parliament , with the proceedings of all kind of Magistrates and Inferiour Courts are uncertain , questionable , yea , unlawfull , void and Null ; all who have suffered by Sentences of Courts of Justice , have suffered unjustly ; all who possesse any thing , as Lands , Houses , Debts , by judgements of Courts , have no Title to them ; all men who exercise any power of Rule and Government over others , are usurper● , intruders ; and they may say , I never chose the men that made these Lawes upon which I was proceeded against and such verdicts given , I never gave my consent that such men should be Judges , Justices of Peace , Sheriffs , Juries , or that such Courts should be erected ; yea these principles do bring in to this Kingdom and all other Nations , all kind of confusion and Anarchy , overthrow all ancient bounds , rancks , orders , differences of persons and things , as rich and poor , Magistrats and people , servants and masters , bound and free , and reduce all things back to unsetlement , uncertainties , perplexities , and that as often as mens humours please , and indeed keep all things from a possibility of being otherwise ; and all rationall wise men who understand the nature of Government and Common-wealths must needs confesse as much ; and that I may even to weak men deceived with specious pretences discover the weaknesse and folly of divers of the later Positions , I commend these following particulars to the Readers serious consideration . 1. These men who deny to the Peers of this Kingdom the Title of Lords , and say , 'T is not proper to Christians , but a mark of the Gentiles ; yet they give to the Commons greater Titles , as * High and Mighty ( the Titles of Emperours and Monarchies ) and to the common people , Majesty , Kingship , Soveraigne Lord , yea , give Gods Title , calling the people Creators ; and Kings , Lords , their meer creatures . 2. Instead of Legall Rights and the Lawes and Customes of this Nation , the Sectaries talk of , and plead for naturall Rights and Liberties , such as men have from Adam by birth , and in many of their Pamphlets they still speak of being governed by Right reason , so that look now as they do in matters of Religion and Conscience they fly from the Scriptures and from supernaturall truths revealed there , that a man may not be questioned for going against them , but only for Errors against the light of nature and right reason ; So they do also in Civill Government and things of this life , they go from the Lawes and Constitutions of Kingdoms , and will be governed by rules according to nature and right reason ; and though the Lawes and Customes of a Kingdom be never so plain and cleer against their wayes , yet they will not submit , but cry out for naturall Rights derived from Adam and right reason . 3. According to all principles of Justice and Right reason , who is fittest to judge in such and such cases what is according to right reason , whether every Delinquent and ignorant Mechanick cald in question ( for if that may be allowed , farewell all justice , none shall be punished , nor innocent righted ) or the Rulers , Judges , and setled Authority of a Land ? Is it not rationally to be supposed that those Ancestors who founded a Government for such a Nation , and those who have followed in a Succession having yeelded to and setled such Lawes , could better judge of right reason , what was for the good of such a Nation , and accordingly made Lawes then every mean man who knows no reason of Lawes and States nor is capable of Government , and the true nature of it , neither conceives the Government of Nations in reference to other Nations , nor in reference to the body of the people ; but Ship , passengers and all might be split upon many rocks if such unskilful Pilots had the steering . 4. T is certain all Nations and people , though all came from Adam , have not the same Lawes , Customes , Constitutions of Government , and so are not , nor cannot be alike ●ree : There is a liberty left in Commonwealths to frame and mould them as shall be judged most convenient , and all are not tied to one Rule ; this the Independents grant when they deny it in the Government of the Church ; and seeing men are borne and live in different Climates , Countries , and are of severall Manners , Dispositions , Constitutions , Educations ; the same Lawes , Customes , kind of Government , would not be for the good of all , but what would fit one and be usefull , would not serve another : some are of a more servile Disposition , some of a harsher stubborner nature , some of a gentler freer nature ; some people are situated in Islands , some upon the Continent , some have such neighbours of such a temper , others have not ; some Countries wholly subsists on such commodities , others subsist in another way ; and so many such differences might be given ; now , whether Customes and Laws necessary for such a people , founded on the proper reason and nature of such a place and people , be proper for all , I leave to wise men to judge . M. Peters that great Sectarian statesman in his * Polit. tels us The same Last will not fit an English and a Scottish foot : The English must be ruled more by love . Now if two nations so neer in one Iland are not alike free , but must be differently governed , then certainly Nations remote from one another , are not alike free . Besides , to particular persons , yea bodies of people , many providences & accidents may fal out to make one and the same people and particular persons not so free as sometimes they have been ; there are some Parents who were free , but having incurred the Law , are tainted in bloud & so their children also , some are taken captivs or have sold themselves for a necessity , and so their children are servants to , A nation having bin saved by some Prince from ruine ( though before a free state ) may now make him and his Heirs according to such Lawes , King over them ; nay Amesius in his Cases of Conscience saith , It cannot be denied but that a people forced by necessity may sell themselves to a King to be all his servants , Gen. 47. 23. 5. T is apparent that in one and the same Nation , as England , all the subjects have not the same priviledges and freedoms , but some have more then others , some are not liable to be pressed to war , to bare such Offices , serve in Juries , &c. as others are ; some have voices , viz. Freeholders , to chuse Knights of Shires , others have not ; some Cities , Towns , have Charters and large priviledges in severall particulars , to send Burgesses to Parliament , which other Towns have not ; and certainly the Peerage of England have priviledges and liberties , which every Jack-straw hath not . 6. I demand of the Sectaries whether in their Pamphlets speaking of election and consent , they meane an immediate present choyce and consent of the present men now to be governed , or else an election consent in the first constitution of this Kingdom and Government by our Ancestors many hundred yeers ago ? Now if they mean this last , how do they know but that this Government wherein the King and Lords have such a power , was by consent and agreement , it being consented such a man should be King , and such persons Nobles , who by birth should have such power , and then such people according to such agreements should have power to chuse some men , who together with King and Nobles should make Laws , by which the Nation governed , & the King should have such power , Nobles such priviledges , and people such liberties ; but now if they meane the first , an immediate election of the present peopl , that they are to obey none but so chosen , 't is most false , and a principle destructive to the sundamentall government of this Kingdom , and destroying the House of Commons as well as the King and Lords ; and for the clearing of that , I would propound two things , 1. That in this Common-wealth of England none have any power of Government at all either in a lower or higher Sphere , either by election of the whole body of the people ( for all chuse not , but some onely ) or founded upon election as the sole cause and ground ; for none of the people can chuse , neither are men capable to be chosen , till according to Lawes , Writs are granted forth or Charters given by Princes and Lawes to such Corporations , and yet then the peopl must go in chusing , not according to their wills , but to such rules agreed on by Laws , and after men are chosen , some conditions also and rules must be observed , before the persons so chosen have power of government ; these chosen Commons must be returned , and sworne , take such oaths before they can ●it , or if they do , their election is ipso fact● nul , and they made uncapable ever to fit again ; so that t is evident that election of some part of the people ( not the whole ) is only a partiall cause , not the totall and plenary cause , or rather the true cause is because such a man , according to Lawes and Customes of this Kingdome is now in such a place , whereof one of the conditions for such a place is election so and so determined by former Lawes ; but now in many Officers of this Kingdome who have power of government to heare , judge , and do many Acts , no sort of the common people have any power at all to chuse , as in Justices of Peace ; they have been alwayes , and still are made without any such election ; so the Judges of the Land , Sheriffs , with divers other Officers ; and therefore much more may the King and Peers who by the fundamentall Lawes of the Land , have an hered●tary power in Parliament , to which the Kingdom hath agreed and yeelded obedience so many hundred yeers , exercise their power without any electon of the people . 2. That certainly people are bound and tied to Lawes , Rules , as well as Kings and Nobles , and that Covenants , Compacts , Oaths of Allegiance , &c. made on their part , bind them as well as Princes oaths : I ever took it for granted that Princes had not been bound , and their people left at liberty and freedome to do what they pleased : I alwayes thought fundamentall constitutions of Government made many hundred yeers before , and ancient bounds set by Lawes , with birth-right inheritance , having gone through an uninterrupted succession of many P●ogenitors had been a right and interest to Princes , which the meer will and pleasure of common people could not have taken from them , and I conceive that according to the conssitution and Lawes of this Kingdome ( which gives all sorts their rights though some more some lesse ) 't is agreed on that the Peers of this Land should have a Legislative and judiciall power , and they and their heirs be in such ranck , born with such and such priviledges over others . 7. This Position of the Sectaries the Universal people having such a power without whose election all Government is void , their Dagon and great Image which they fall down before and worship , is a meer Chim●ra , a monstrum horrendum , a Babell , which I could shatter and break so to peeces as not one stone should be left of it , nor so much as the stump , but I may not now give all my thoughts for feare of being too voluminous ; only I will hint a few things in this place by way of Question , and referre the Reader to what I further say in page 154 , 155. &c. 1. I Desire to know of these Sectaries , what , or who is this state Universall ; whether all the men , women , and children born in England , men-servants , maid-servants , poore people and beggars , together with those of the better sort ; and whether if all these , or the greater part of these taken one equally as well as th' other , be the state universall , have they the like Soveraigne power over the King and Parliament . 2. Whether in what this state Uuniversall will do with the King , Lords , and their owne House of Commons ; it must be carried by the most voices of this state universall , so that if all the beggars , poor people , servants , children , be a greater number then the rich , wise , &c. it must be as they will have things in the Common-wealth ; and if so , let it be considered what may and will be the consequence of that , whether not a community , yea a making the rich poor , and the poor rich , servants masters , and masters servants , and if it must not be so , then how is it the state Universall ? 3. What if this Universall people do not , or cannot agree among themselves about the government and governors , but some are for one way , some for another , some for such men , others for other men ; and one sort say they are the most , and the other say they are the most ; who shall have power to judge between them and determine the differences ? 4. If Power of Government be founded on the consent of persons to be governed , what if as great a part of the universall people within a few , and may be more considerable , chuse another man or men then the other greater part chose , must they subject to them whom they like not , consent not to , or may not they set up those they chuse for the governing of them ; and suppose twenty such great parties chuse all different men , may not each set up and obey only their onwe chosen ones according to this doctrine ? 5. How , where , and in what manner shall all the Universall people meet , men , women , servants , children , poor , rich , beggars to declare their minds what they would have , and how things should be carried ; and whether ever did they , or can they meet to make known their minds , and who shall be betrusted to take their minds and report it ? 6. Whether are not the Sectaries the Uuiversall state of England , that pretend to have this power over King , Lords , Commons ▪ and whether do they not mean themselves by it in all their Pamphlets , and how do they know many things which they confidently assert of the people in their Pamphlets , to be the judgement and intent of any other , but of their own Sectarian party ? 7. I desire to know how many of the persons who have writ all these late Pamphlets against the King , House of Lords , and of the peoples power over the House of Commons to call them to an account , and that they may do nothing but what they give them power to do , and they may displace them at pleasure as being chosen by them , &c. had any voice● , or power by the Lawes and Customes of this Kingdome to chuse●any Members for the House of Commons . Let Lilburne , O 〈…〉 , Larner , and the rest of that rable who talk so much of the House of Commons being their chosen ones , and that a man ought to obey none but whom he chuses with such like , name any Knight or Burgesse whom they chose , or were capable to chuse ; for I beleeve they were of so mean estate that they had not so much free-land per annum required by the Statute for them who have voices Electio 〈…〉 of Knights of the ●●ire ; and as for chusing ▪ Bu●gesses in London where they lived , they were no Livery men of any of those Companies who have voices in Election ; so that for ought I know , when the House of Commons shall question them for their sedicious Anarchicall Pamphlets ▪ a● the Lords have most justly done ( and by these and many other Acts have end●ered the hearts of thousand to them ) they may answer the Cōmons as they have done the Lords , and tell them they never chose any of them , nor gave them any power ; they were chosen not by the State Universall , all the free-men of England , but by a few free-holders , and some ric● Citizens and tradesmen , and therefore let them rule over them if they will , and let those who chose them be subject ; but unlesse they will be content to 〈◊〉 down and be chosen by the Universall people , they will not betray their liberty to answer any questions , submit to their Authority , but appeale from the 〈…〉 to the Universall people , or to the Depu 〈…〉 and Trustees which shall be made by this Universall people ▪ and that they are likely to do it , may be judged by Lilburns carriage to the Committee of Examinations , the House of Comm 〈…〉 it self , and by the many Pamphlets in the ye●re 1645 ▪ set out against the House of Commons ; and that they may say so upon as good grounds , yea by the very same upon which they went in opposing the House of Lords , I will undertake to make good , and of it the Reader may find more about page 155 , 156. 8. If all power be founded thus upon Election of the persons to be governed , and the Commons have all their power thus from Election and from nothing else , whether may any be put by from sitting in the House who are chosen by most voices of those Townes and Counties who send them , and others chosen by fewer voices by farre sit in their roomes in the Commons House , and whether upon Articles clapt in before proved , or complaints by the friends of those who have fewer voices , may the Committee of Elections or the House it self put by one chosen by most voices and admit the other , and according to this doctrine of the people Universall represented being the Lords and Masters of the Commons , and the Commons their Deputies and servants , how can they contradict their Lords the people to turn back whom they send , and put in others ? 9. Whether may not according to the Doctrines laid down in the late Pamphlets , the Counties add Burgesse Towns who have no Knights or Burgesses there to represent them , nor have not had of a long time , and can yet get no Writs to chuse for themselves , answer the House of Commons when sent for , as Lilburne and Overton did the House of Lords , We are not bound to obey any of your Orders , as having none there that represent us or whose Election we have consented to ? 10. Whether according to these Doctrines of the Sectaries , may not such Cities , Townes , Counties , chuse men without Writs and send them up to Parliament demanding to sit there , especially after alleadging Petitions and motions made for Writs to chuse and none granted ; and whether in such cases whilst Towns are without any Parliament men for them , may they not refuse to obey any Ordinances made by those whom they never chose nor know not , yea may they not according to this doctrin say that all Ordinances whatsoever made before the time their Representors came in they will give no obedience to ? 11. If all power be founded thus wholly upon the Election of the people to be governed , and that all Governors are their meer Deputies , servants , may do nothing but what they give them a power to do and by Commission from them , whether may the House of Commons exercise that power the Lawes give them , and go according to the Priviledges and Customes of that House , though the people Represented never gave them any such things in Commission , nor do not know nor understand them ? or must they keep only to what is the known mind of those Countries and Towns that chose them ? 12. If all power in Government be founded on immediate Election of the People , and no sort of men have power further then the Universall people gave them , and because they are Representors , Trustees , Deputies , &c. may do nothing against the will and mind of the Major part of the Universall people who chose them , whether have all the Parliament-men in all their Votes gone according to the minds and desires of those Cities and places that chose them Represented in Petitions , and whether in cases of doubt and yet of great importance , have they still called their Countries together to know their minds and whether they were willing such things should be , viz. Anabaptists , Brownists , and all kind of Sectaries to enjoy such freedom of meettings , all sorts of ignorant Mechanicks to be suffered to turn preachers , and to go up and down seducing people , whether so great an Army to be still continued in this Kingdom , and they Assessed to pay such Taxes for their maintenance , and whether Committees shall be still continued in the Kingdom ; whether great sums of mony and hundreds of pounds in Land per annum in such necessitous times shall be given away on men who little need it , and so in other particulars ? and if things appear to be against the mind of the generalitie of the people , whether are the people bound to obey their Orders and Ordinances in such cases ? 13. If all power of government be upon Election , and the chosen ought to go according to the will of the universality of the people , suppose it should so happen in a Common-wealth that the greater part of the chosen should apparently go contrary to the trust reposed in them , carry things quite against the mind of the people , as of the chief City , Country , Ministry , and none should be pleased with their actions but a pure faction , a party of men ingaged by offices , places of preferment , liberty of licentiousnesse of living against the true Religion by Lawes established , whether then with a good conscience may and ought this universall people with the consent and assistance of such Governors chosen by them who are known to be faithfull , demand to chuse others in their places , require justice upon them , and so deliver themselves and their Country ? 14. Whether or no according to these Doctrines of the Sectaries there be any in this Kingdome have any power of government or whom the people ought to obey , seeing there is none among us chosen by the universall people , no not the Commons in Parliament , but only by a part of the people the Freeholders and free-men of Towns , which are not the twentieth part of the people of this Kingdom , who yet sure are subject to Lawes , and should live under obedience ? 15. Seeing in all kind of lawfull power and superiority every man that obeyes any should chuse him ( as the Sectaries speak in their Pamphlets ) and the power of Colonels , Captains , Commanders in cheif of such a party over Souldiers is lawfull , whether may such whole Companies and particular souldiers in such Companies who have Commanders set over them whom they chose not , but were unwilling of , and desirous of others ( only 't is the will of the Generall to have it so ) answer them when they command them , we chose you not , we will not obey your commands , and whether this would be a good answer of the Presbyterian Companies that have Independent Commanders set over them , and well taken at a Councell of Warre ? And whether Colonel Lilburne in the Army would have taken such an Answer well from his Regiment , notwithstanding his brothers doctrine ? And whether if gallant Colonel Whaley before Worcester should have stood upon this Doctrine that those should command in cheif who had the consent of the souldiery there and the people of those parts , and thereupon opposed Colonel Rainborough , it had been true Doctrine ? 16. Whether do not the Sectaries ●ro●●e themselves in their positions about Election , that no men have any power over any to question and judge 〈◊〉 who chose them not , and whom they represent not ? when 〈◊〉 they say the House of Commons may question and punish 〈◊〉 and judge the House of Peer , being the Soveraign● S 〈…〉 〈◊〉 both of the C●●●on●rs and of the Lords : Now certainly neither the King nor the House of Peers chose the House of Commons , neither are they the Representors of the King and Peers , they represent them not so much as in name , having never the Titles of Kings or Lords given them by Lawes , and therefore if according to the Sectaries Doctrines the House of Commons have power over King and Lords to judge them ( which for my part I do not beleeve ) though they are not their chosen ones , then certainly the House of Lords may have power to sentence Lilburne , Overton , &c. though not chosen by them . 17. If all power of Government stand solely upon the Election of the present people , and hath all its authority upon that , whether the power of Governors can continue longer then the people chose them for , and suppose the people never intending or once dreaming to chuse them for alwayes , but for a time , whether when that time they were chosen for expired , their power did not also expire ? and whether may any with a good conscience , who beleeves the time is long ago run out for which he chose Burgesses and Knights , submit any more to the Summons , Orders , Censures of the Commons then the Sectaries wil to the H. of Peers ? and whether can the H. of Commons expect any submission and obedience from the Sectaries , who have in the name of thousands declared professedly to the world their time was out for which they were chosen , by such a day , which day is past , and therefore they will find when they come to question some of them roundly upon any of their Ordinances , that they will serve them as they do the Lords , telling them they have no power over them , the time for which they chose them is out ? 18. Whether according to this Doctrine of all subjection and power founded only in Representation , Deputation , extending no further then from the Represented to the Representors , may not the Ministery of the Kingdome plead exemption from the power of the Commons as the Sectaries do from the Lords , saying they have no Ministers there to sit in that House to represent them , or who have Deputation from them ; there may possibly be some Imitators of them in the House of Commons , Lay Preachers and gifted Brethren imitating them in their work of Ministry , as Apes use to imitate men in the works of their calling , but no Representors of them . 19. If nothing the representative do be valid or binding , but what the greater number of the Universal have given power in , whether may not & will not the people question all Votes , Orders , Ordinances , as not being tied to them because they know not that the Universall people consented , and so every thing when it should be obeyed , may be questioned upon that ground , and nothing in Government should be certain , but a man may say this Law , this Order is null , void ; for how doth it appeare the Universall represented people gave consent , or the Representative acted in it from the instructions of the Universall ? 20. If this Doctrine were true , that Magistrates might do nothing but what the greater part of the generality of a Land would have , whether many good things would ever have been done that now are , and whether in many Kingdoms would ever a Reformation have been effected , and whether if the Parliament had gone by the Pole of tagge and ragge , would ever Common-Prayer-book , Bishops , with many other things have been put down , which yet I hope the Sectaries dare not say but the House of Commons did well in so doing ? A Catalogue of some Blasphemies of the Sectaries , not mentioned in the First , nor Second Parts of Gangraena . * A Sectarie said , That the Prophets in the Old Testament Prophecied two and fifty lyes ; That in the ninth chapter of the Romans Saint Paul lyed , and said he did acknowledge him self to be so , to gain some to Christ . The same Sectarie being stowed a place of Scripture , which were the words of Christ , took the book and threw it away , and said that was not ordered by the Holy Ghost to be penned , but it was the Rogue Printer that did put it in . * Another Sectary said there is no God , or if there be a God , the Devill is a God. * Master Saltmarsh the Sectary , preached at Bath , that as John Baptist wore a Leathern Girdle , so the Doctrin that he preached was Leathern Doctrine . * A Sectarian Souldier at Bristoll finding fault with something a godly Minister had preached of Christ wondering at their unbeleif , this Minister told this Souldier they were Christs words , unto whom this Sectarian Souldier replyed , Christ spake thus in his darknesse : And another time this Minister speaking with the same Sectary about being justified by Christs Righteousnesse , this Sectary replyed , Christs Righteousnesse was a beggerly Righteousnesse . A She-Sectary an Anabaptist said it boastingly again and again , That she was every whit as good as Christ , no way inferiour to him , but equall to him , and if she were not so the Scripture was a liar . A Relation of some Passages in the Prayers of some Sectaries . IT was for certain related to me , and to many persons of worth , that in June last , when the King was with our Brethren of Scotland , an Independent prayed publickly to God , that God would deliver the King out of the hands of those evill Counsellors in whose hands he now wa● . T is written to me in a Letter , and testified under the hands of three witnesses , that an Independent in a publick Church prayed thus ; Lord , if thou art not pleased to blesse us in the seducing King , and trayterous Queen , then blesse us in the Prince his Son , or the Duke : And at another time the same man prayed thus ; Lord , now that the Sword is drawn , let it never be sheathed , untill it be glutted in the bloud of the cursed Malignants . A Great Sectary in London upon occasion of the City Remonstrance , prayed as followes ▪ ( of which prayer many Citizens had Copies , and I was told it from good hands it was brought in to the Court of Aldermen . ) O Lord , thou knowest there is a Remonstrance to go up to the Parliament , which is much to thy dishonour , and the hurt of thy Saints , for Lord thou knowest the Kingdoms of the Earth by right belong unto us thy Saints . Suffer not thy Saints any longer to be trampled upon , but stand up for thy people , and do not suffer the ungodly to go up with this wicked Remonstrance : Confound their device , and suffer it to take no effect : And Lord we thanke thee that thou hast stirred up some of thy Saints with courage already to protest against it , we beseech thee stir up more . Lord , stir up the women that lie in their husbands bo 〈…〉 es , and the children to cry unto their parents , every one to be helpfull to one another to stay this Remonstrance . Lord , we will fast and pray unto thee this day , to morrow , and the next day . O Lord hear our prayers and let our cry come unto thee ; as thou ha●t been mercifull unto us , so we beseech thee to continue thy favour and love unto us . I was told it also by an understanding godly Minister , that this Summer about the time of Lilburns commitment by the House of Lord , a great Sectary in one of their Conventicles prayed to this effect ; O Lord , cast down , or confound all Monarcks a●d Monarchies , and lift up or advance thy servant Lilburne . This Minister had it from some , who said they were eare witnesses ; and I desired to speak with them about i● , and he promised I should , but having not yet spoken with them , I do relate it but as a report , and not with that confidence as I do things I hear , or find written , or that I have from godly persons I know who are eare witnesses . Some of the Independents and Sectaries use to court God in prayer , having as affected straines , and strong lines , as ever University Preachers used to have in their Sermons at Saint Maries . One of them began his prayer , Right Honourable Lord God ; another begins oft-times , Immortall God , and then makes a stop and pause , and then comes on the Se●aphin●s tongues are tip● with thy praises , and praying in an affected manner . Another Independent spake to God in prayer by way of complaint against the Presbyterians ; Lord , they hate us because we know more of thee then they do ; but we beseech thee Lord give 〈◊〉 still to know more of thee , and let them hate us more if they will. A Relation of stories and sundry remarkable Passages co 〈…〉 ng the Sects , and Sectaries ; and amongst others of some Souldiers who are great Sectaries . JVly the third 1646. two Citizens , honest men related to me this story in the hearing of another Minister , and that with a great deal of confidence ( one of them having la●en in the Town where the fact was committed , and having spoken with many Inhabitants about it ) that summer was a two yeares Captaine Beamant and his company being quartered at Yakesly in Huntingtonshire , there being a child in the Town to be baptized , some of the souldiers would not suffer the child to be carried to Church to be baptized , and the Lieutenant of the Troop drew out a pa●● of the Troop to hinder it , guar●ing the Church that they should not bring the child to be baptized , and instead of the child being baptized , in contempt of Baptisme , some of the souldiers got into the Church , pissed in the Font , and went to a Gentlemans stable in the Town , and took out a horse , and brought it into the Church , and there baptized it , and after they had done so , such of the Townsmen as spake against them before they went away they did them mischeif ▪ and this was so certainly and generally spoken of that a godly Minister who dwelt hard by , heareing of it came next day to the Town to find out him who baptized this horse , and the rest who had a hand in it , and to stirre up the Parish to complaine and prosecute them . Which story being thus related to me with much confidence from these two Citizens , as having spoken with this neighbour Minister , and divers of the Inhabitants of Yaksly ; yet because I well know that reports will flye variously and many mistakes may arise in relations , and because this was so sad a 〈…〉 ory and such a d●sperate proph 〈…〉 ation and contempt of Gods Ordinance of Baptisme ▪ I therefore intreated these Citizens for my sati●faction , and for the credit of the story to others , to get under the hands of some of the Inhabitants of quality who related it , the truth of the story , wh 〈…〉 of it was true and what might be built upon 〈◊〉 certa 〈…〉 ●her●upo● they sent about it , and took such a course , that abo●t ten dayes agoe , in September I received from the hands of a godly Minister this certificate to a tittle , and do keep the Originall by me to produce when ever I shall be called to make proof of it . August 15. 1646. THat Captaine B 〈…〉 an t was quartered at Yakesly in the County of Huntingdon about June 2. 1644. and preached on the Lords day in the Parochiall Church ; and in the time of his quarter there , his souldiers fecht a bald horse out of Master Finnmo 〈…〉 s stable ( of the Captaines ) where he was quartered , and in the Church at the Font ( having pissed in it ) did sprinkle it on the horse , and call him Ball 〈…〉 ( because he was hairie ) and crost him in the forehead : They had souldiers Godfathers , and one Widdow Shropshire , a souldier sonick-named , was the Godmother . This the Le●●tenant Brayfield by name reported to the Captaine , and they all gloried in it at Master Finnmo●rs , and the other souldiers immediatly reported the same to be done in many houses where they were q 〈…〉 Which we the Inhabitants of Yakesly do witnesse whose names are subscribed ▪ William Finn 〈…〉 Thomas Eva 〈…〉 John Caryer . Robert 8 Sumerly his marke . John Pal 〈…〉 er . Robert Cu 〈…〉 dge . Holl●● Bell. Robert Ra 〈…〉 er Corporall was the man 〈◊〉 acted the part of the Minister , Bartly Ward by name was the Godmother , Laure●ce Dodds , 〈…〉 man , was 〈◊〉 that f●cht the horse out of the ●●able . The ●ame godby Minister who hath relation to those parts , and 〈◊〉 whom I hall this paper tells 〈◊〉 here are 〈…〉 y other misde 〈…〉 anore of some of the Sectaria● souldier● spoken of By many in these parts , as the baptizing of a pigg● and other stra●ge exploith with he will enquire the 〈◊〉 of and 〈…〉 ordingly 〈…〉 finds , give me notice ; and he saith 〈◊〉 S 〈…〉 souldiers are so 〈◊〉 , that the godly Orthodox Ministers cannot with safety to their persons preath against some of those 〈◊〉 which they 〈◊〉 , as against universall grace , and some others ; some of these souldiers to one godly and able Minister who preached against their opinions , laid their hands upon their swords , threatning him with a great deal of ●ury . There is a godly Minister , and a man of some place more then ordinary ( whose wise being much incl 〈…〉 ed to the Sectaries and going often to their meetings ) he went divers times with her , and among many strange passages which he hath seen and heard in those Assemblies , he relates this following story for a certain truth , which hee both saw and heard , but was not willing to have his name made known because of some estate lying so , that he perhaps might suffer much for discovering any thing concerning the Sects . About Algate in London there was a great meeting of many Sectaries , ( among others one Master Knowls , Master Jesse , and some other of the Sectarian Ministers were there ) for the restoring of an old blind woman to her sight , by anointing her with oyle in the name of the Lord : The manner of it was after this manner , the old blind woman was set in the midst of the Roome , and she first prayed aloud ( all the company joyning with her ) to this effect , that God would blesse his own Ordinance and Institution for the restoring of her sight ; after she had done praying , Master Knowls prayed for some spice of time to the same effect for a blessing upon this anointing with oile , and after prayer she was anointed with oyle , these words being words uttered by him who anointed her or to this effect , The Lord Jesus give , or restore thee thy sight . In my first part of Gangr 〈…〉 a a story is related of some Sectarian Troopers assaulting Master Andrews a Minister in Northamptonshire : Now I shall give the Reader a continuation of that story , viz. so farre as to shew to what place these men went from Wellingborrough , and what pranks these , and others of that Troop played in Warwickshire , which was told me by a good hand from one who came out of those parts , and assured me it was most true , and proferd to give it me under his hand and the hands of others in that Town , and the story is as followes . That very company spoken of came to a Town call'd Lemington or Remington in Warwickeshire , and to the house of one John Mathews who looks to Baron Trevers estate there , where their Captaine quartred , viz. one Captaine P. and they told him of the passages at Wellingborrough , boasting what they had done , and how narrowly the Priest escaped them , and what they would have done if they had gotten him , and there was a great deale of applauding them by their fellowes who were there . The constant course of that Troop whilst they quartered in that Town was to speak against the Ministrie , calling them Priests , disswading the people from going to Church ; hardly three of a hundred of that Troop would goe to Church , they would tell the people that they would give them a Book should do them more good then all the Sermons they should ever hear in all their lives from all the Priests ; and that they could preach better then the Ministers of England ; and this Company of Sectarians was so rude , that they did more hurt to a fine Dove-house of Baron Trevars , which this John Mathews was to look to , then Prince Rupert and all his souldiers when they quartered there : This John Mathews intreated them they would not make such spoyle and wast , killing old as well as young without distinction ; and he prevailed with their Captaine to go to them to forbid them , but they answered him that pigions were soules of ▪ the aire given to the sons of men , and all men had a common right in them that could get them , and they were as much theirs as the Barons , and therefore they would kill them , take their liberty , and not part from their right ; upon which words the Captaine said he was so convinced with their arguments , that he could not answer them , and so came away letting them do as they would . At another time there being Poultrie provided by the good woman of the house for their diet , which she killed with wringing their neeks about ( as the custome of the Country is ) these souldiers would not have them dressed , but threw them away , and fecht others , cuting of their heads , for they would not eate things strangled ; and such was the carriage of these Sectaries , that though John Mathewes be a man well affected to the Parliament , and well disposed , yet he professed he had rather have Prince Rupert and his Company to quarter there , then that Troop of Captaine P. A Copie of a Letter written lately from a Reverend godly Minister in Northamptonshire , to a person of quality and worth in London . Worthy SIR , THough I am perswaded that you know that many Errors abound in the Army , yet I cannot think but such destructive tenets as some of them have broacht amongst us when they lately quartered here , are not particularly come unto your eares . Therefore out of zeal to Gods glory , the safty of our Church and Commonwealth , Parliament and Ministry ; I could not but impart what I have heard from their own mouthes , and by honest neighbours of them . The sacred Covenant bindes me with all faithfulnesse to indeavour to discover Incendiaries , hinderers of Reformation of Religion , dividers of the Kingdomes , &c. And truly I cannot think these any other ; though as ye● God hath hindred their sparks ( which they cast into all the straw which they passe by ) from flaming into open and violent liscord . I can produce both the names , and I think sufficient witnesse ( people are affraid almost to speak against the souldiers ) that they have seriously spoken ( as being their judgements and purposes ) that if the souldiers knew the Countries minds , as the Country might know the souldiers , they would have another kind of Reformation then this Parliament is about . That they have not so long sought for liberty , and now to be inslaved ; That they could goe all England through by force of Arms if they listed . That the Country might call the Parliament to account for what they had done , for they were set up by them . They commonly in derision call our Brethren Jack Sect , and say they plot with the King against the Parliament ; but if there were any occasion of drawing the sword against them , they would be more fierce against them , then ever against the Cavaleirs . They upon long dispure with me cominued in this that there is no such office as the Ministry ; and it 's blasphemy for any one to say that he is a Minister of Jesus Christ more then any other man ; such an office was , but it ceased . A Captaine Reformadoe said , their swords shall never out of their hands , as long as one Priest continued in England . They scorned all our religious dayes and duties ; call them fools that pay Tythes , and them theeves that receive them ; will beleeve no more Scripture , then what they prove by experience to be true . I might have heard more , but that my heart abhors such seditious and blaspemous speeches . They speake most contemptibly of Christs person , and as I heare , deny either the Trinity , or at least the holy Ghost . If it be for any publick benefit , I will search after more particulars , and sufficient proof . Sir , I am bold to impart my troubled thoughts unto you , whom I have cause to judge faithfull to God , your Country , and your Friend : Truly , we fear some hurt by these in Arms , if a speedy course be not taken with some of them ; for I find that they stick not to their principle of Liberty , but only in receiving it : they will not give it ( if they had the power of giving it ) unto others . For ought I can observe , with all their Errours they labour to poyson others where they come . My mind will be much satisfied when I shall know you have read these lines , concluding my duty of discovering Incendiaries , &c. discharged till further occasions be offered . The good Lord look upon us , and save us from these instruments of safety . I desire your spirituall health and comfort , with all temporall happinesse , and successe : Sept. 24. 1646. Yours to be commanded . A godly young man of Summersetshire , or Dors●tshire , at whose house a Lieutenant of a Company of Sir Thomas Fairfax Army quartered , told me , that this Lieutenant maintained these Opinions ; 1 That women might preach , and would have had a gentlewom●n in the house ( this young mans sister ) to have exercised her gifts , telling her he knew she had gifts ▪ and had been alone a meditating . 2. That if a womans husband was a●leep or absent from her , she might lye with another man , and it was lawfull ; for sleep was a death ; and pressed it upon a young Gentlewoman in the house , whose husband was then at London . 3. That it was unlaw●ull to kneell in prayer , which was maintained by him , or some others of his company ; and when they prayed , they prayed leaning . There is a godly Minister of some place more then ordinary , that was in the Army about Oxford , who heard a Colonell of that Army speak it in his hearing , and the hearing of many , that as for fighting against the Irish he was against it , for they did nothing but what they might do lawfully , and gave his reasons and grounds for it ; 1. Because they did but fight for their Religion and Liberty of conscience , and for their Lands and Estates . 2. That if the whole Commons and body of the people would agree and put down King and Parliament , overthrow the Constitution of this Kingdom in King , Lords , and Commons , they might do it : as this was told two godly / Ministers , from whom I had this relation , so was it communicated to some members of both Houses . June 24. A godly Citizen told me , he heard a great Sectary that belonged to the Army say , speaking of Ireland , he doubted , and so did many more in the Army , whether it were lawfull to go fight against the Irish ; and that that Country was theirs , as well as England was ours . Though the boldnesse and presumption of many of the Souldiers , Officers and common Souldiers hath been very great , both against the command of God , and the Parliament , to preach in the open Churches in all Countries and places where they have come , putting by many godly and able Ministers from their Office and invading their Pulpits ; yet their open and frequent preaching in the University of Oxford , doth most of all declare their impudencie , that they should dare to do it in the midst of so many learned men , and in a place so famous for learning ; and that in the publike schools in Oxford to preach daily , and that against humane learning as they did for some time ; and after complaint of it to the Generall as a thing so scandalous and odious to all ingenuous men , and his forbidding their preaching in the Schools ; yet the Souldiers continue still to preach in Oxford daily in a great house where they meet for that end ; and I spak with one that came from Oxford in Aug. last who told me they preach now daily in Christs Church ( one of the greatest Colledges in Oxford ) in a kind of Gallery , where the souldier stands that preaches , many sitting on the stairs , others standing below ; and this young man heard one of them preach there , discoursing on these words : God would require the life of man at a Beast ; this Souldier expounded that by Beasts was meant a wicked man. There are two honest men , who last July told me , that they had heard an Independent who lives at Dover say it , and so had others , that the Scots and the Assembly were pests and plagues of the Common wealth , the Assembly were a company of dissemblers , the Presbytery was Anti-christian ; and speaking of the Ministers , called them , that ugly tribe . A Commander in the Army of known fidelity and worth , told me , he had heard Master Peters preach in Hedington Fort , against the City of London , incensing the Army against the City ; telling them , that after you have done all this , they would not have you live nor enjoy any places . July the first 1646. I was told by some of the Aldermen of the City , who were come that day from the Sessions , and from hearing the cause , that a great Sectary was brought to the Sessions of Peace before the Lord Major , for that having woed a Maid to be his wife , and he profering to be her husband , she consenting ; he tooke her by the hand , and for his wife ; but said , he would be hanged rather then be married by a Priest ( calling all our Ministers Priests ) and perswading her , there was no ground in the word to be married any other way : whereupon they both consenting , came together ; but afterwards , he cast her off and would have nothing to do with her , nor allow her no meanes : This woman being brought a bed of two Children in her travell , related this , and was ready to take her Oath , the Children were his , and that she never knew any man but him . Some who come from the Army tell me , that the Sectaries in the Army do exceedingly raile against the City and Citizens , and call them the Sect of the Adamites . A Citizen of London of good ranck , told me and divers others , that he being at Boston Faire but a little before , there was a Commander a great Sectary , spake to many whom he met with , against the City of London , how the City was quite turned against the Parliament , and was come to that passe , that if the Army came neere London to lye neere them and to awe them , they would raise an Army to set them further off ; and if the Army went north-ward against the Scots , they would help the Scots against them ; this Citizen said , he taking notice of it , spake freely to this Commander , and told him his mind of the faithfulnesse and fidelity of the City : and at the same time this Citizen related ( viz. the fourth day of August ) that it was given in to some Committee or members of a Committee , under two hands , that this Officer having an Order for so many Barrels of Powder and a Tunne of Match out of the Tower to send to such a place , he never sent it , but sold it ; and afterwards being sold again , it came to be brought to the Tower , and some knew it to be such Powder that was given out by order to such a man : and so it came to be discovered . I was told it by two persons of quality , a Member of the House of Commons , and a minister , that some of the Sectarian Souldiers speaking of the Remonstrance , called my Lord Major Rascall ; and for those who had a hand in the Remonstrance , they hoped ere long to have the pulling them out of their houses . August the 30. Two persons of quality and worth , a Reverend Minister , and another person in publick imployment , went to the Spittle in the afternoone to hear Master Randall ( out of a desire to be satisfied upon their owne knowledge ( as having heard many strange things of him ) and coming , they heard him preach on that text , A sower went out to sowe : from whence he raised this observation , That all the Creatures held forth God in Christ , and preached the Gospell . The heavens declare the glory of God ; that is , the glory of God in Christ : and he preached that all the creatures and all actions are Sacraments , and do set forth the death of Christ ; common ordinary eating and drinking do set forth the death of Christ , and are to be done as Christ said , Do this in remembrance of me : He gave no blessing at the end of his Sermon , no Psalme was sung ; there were three great rooms full of people to hear him . A mong many Physitians in these times that are Sectaries , Independents , Anabaptists , Seekers , I have been told from good hands of two of them , these speeches ; one of them speaking about the Ministers , said there was a necessity of the falling of the Tribe of Levi : The other about Aprill last ( at which time the Independents were in their great ●uffe ) that the Ministers would be a contemptible generation , as hate●ull within a while as ever the malignant Ministers and Prelates were . About the latter end of Aprill last , I entreated a Doctor of Physick , a godly man and prudent , to go along with me to a house not far from Cheapside , where some company were appointed to meet me , to discover some things to me about the opinions and wayes of some of the Sectaries ; and there came three , who in my heareing and the Doctors related these following particulars of Mistris Attaway , Master Jenney , and some others of their way , and what they related were such things that they had heard from their own mouthes often . Mistris Attaway held that the Book of Esdras and some other Apocryphall Books were Canonicall Scriptures ; that she should never dye , and that she should bring forth Children at Jerusalem , and that at Jerusalem she should meet with Christ , and enjoy him visibly ; and this Mistris Attaway had so perswaded Jenney that he beleeved he should never dye , and both Mistris Attaway and Jenney held themselves as pure from sinne as Christ was , when he was in the flesh ; and this Mistris Attaway told Master Jenney shee had Letters sent her from a Prophet , who was shut up for a time , and none could come to him ; only there was a Maid one Ellen , whom they among themselves call'd the Prophets Maid that went to him , and Mistris Attaway shewed Jenney these Letters , which were to this effect , that she must go to Jerusalem , and he must go with her , and he should be a Preacher there , have a great hand in repairing Jerusalem , and there Abraham , Isaac and Jacob should come down from Heaven , and meet them ; and this Prophet by the end of this Summer should come forth with power ; For the present there was none that was an Administrator and dispenser with power , but this Prophet should come with power , and do greater works then Christ , saving only he should not dye for the sinnes of men : This Mistris Attaway had a great parchment role , wherein many things were written , and this was to be given to Jenney ; and this Jenney beleeved all Mistris Attaway told him as fully as might be , that he should never dye , &c. This Mistris Attaway also gave out that there should come ships from Tarshish to fetch away all the Saints to Jerusalem , and all that would not turne Jewes should be destroyed , and this whole Land should be destroyed , and therefore she would goe away before hand to escape : This Jenney , Mistris Attaway and some of their Tribe held no hell but what was in the conscience ; the soules mortall ; they held the Book of Esdr●s had great things in it to them who had the spirit to understand it , and that there was Esaus world and Jacobs world ; this was Esaus world , but Jacobs world was comming shortly , wherein all creatures shall be saved ; And this Prophet who was shut up , was to come forth to preach this new Doctrine of generall Restauration and Salvation of all ; and though all should be saved , yet there should be degrees of glory between those that have been Saints ( they should be more glorious ) and those who were the wicked , though now restored : This Jenney held from that Scripture in Genes . where God saith I will make him an help meet for him , that when a mans wife was not a meet help , he might put her away and take another ; and when the woman was an unbeleever ( that is not a Sectarie of their Church ) she was not a meet help , and therefore Jenney left his wife , and went away with Mistris Attaway . A Commander belonging to the Army , told me last July he had seen some of the Sectarian Preachers , preach lately with their hats on , and sitting ; he told me he had heard Master Cradock , Master Peters , and other such Preachers insinuate into the souldiers , flatter them all kind of wayes , telling them what they had done , what fame they had atchieved , how they had conquered ●he Kingdome , and particularly a little before , he heard Master Peters preaching thus , you who have conquered the Kingdome , done all this service , and now when you have done all this might expect your Arrears , look to enjoy your Liberties , yea and expect preferments , good places as you have well deserved , it may be , you shall be cast into a stincking prison ; but if it should be so , t is the will of God , and yee must provide to beare it . There is one Thomas Collier a great Sectary in the West of England , whom I have spoken of in the second part of Gangraena , and have printed some Letters of his in this third part * . I have seen a Book of his printed in the year 1645. called certain Queres , or Points now in controversie examined , wherein among other Errours laid down by him , he makes Baptizing the Children of the faithfull not only to be * vaine , b●t evill and sinfull , ye● the commission of Baptizing Children to come from the Divell or Anti-Christ , or both ; And secondly , that Magistrats have no power at all to establish Church-Government , or to compell any to the Government of Christ by any humane power ; and upon occasion of discoursing of the power of the Civill Magistrate , what hee should do now religion is corrupted , and the Magistrates endeavour is to Reforme it , and to this end have called an Assembly of Learned men to assist them in this work : This Learned Master Collier if he might be thought meet , makes bold to present these three words in this case to the Parliament . First , To dismisse that Assembly of Learned men , who are now call'd together for to consult about matters of Religion ; and the reason this Learned Clark gives , is because he cannot conclude that God hath any thing to do there for them ; he knowes no rule in the Book of God for such an Assembly , and therefore cannot expect a blessing . The second Word , To go on in subduing of Antichristian enemies , so farre as by Civill Law they have power ; for there must by this , or some other meanes be a desolation upon the tenth part of the City . The third Word is , That the Parliament would give the Kingdome to the Saints ; and for who gives the Kingdom to the Saints , so it be done , Master Collier will not much dispute whether it be the Lord Jesus immediatly , or Jesus by a Parliament ; only thus much he would have men take notice that by the Kingdome is meant an externall Kingdome , for the Saints shall possesse that as well as the spirituall Kingdome and Government of the Church of Christ . Hence we may see by Master Colliers words , that his Saints , viz. those whom he hath described before in the former part of his Book , Separatists , Anabaptists do look for from the Parliament , that they should give the Kingdome to them and all temporall power and rule , and take it out of the hands of all others ; So that the King , the Parliament ( unlesse there be some of Master Colliers Saints among them ) the Judges , and all men who by the Lawes under the King and Parliament , have any Civill power of rule in the Kingdome , must have it taken from them and given to the Sectaries Saints : Yea I conceive by Colliers words not only England , but Scotland and Ireland are to be taken from the King , and to be given by the Lord Jesus immediatly , or by Jesus by a Parliament to the Saints ; which whether it be not so or no , I leave the Reader to judge upon transcribing Colliers own words , where giving his second word of advice to the Parliament of going on to subdue Antichristian enemies , so far as they have power , because there must by this , or some other meanes be a desolation upon the tenth part of the City , he interprets his meaning in these following words . Which I think to be England , and those Dominions belonging to it , Scotland and Ireland . I conceive this to be the time that the Kingdome is to to taken from him , who shall arise and subdue three Kings , that is Kingdoms , speaking great words , thinking to change times and Laws ; but the Judgement shall fit and take away this Dominion to consume it , and destroy it to the end , Dan. 7. 26. Therefore let not your hearts faint , neither your hands draw back , God will finish his work . The third Word , is , that they would give the Kingdome to the Saints , Dan. 7. 27. Who gives the Kingdome to the Saints ? The judgement that pulls down the power and Kingdome of the one , gives to the other . Whether i● be the Lord Jesus immediatly , or Jesus by a Parliament , I shall not much dispute , but leave it to your considerations ; Only thus much take notice , that by the Kingdome , is not only meant an externall Kingdome , for the Saints shall possesse that , but the spirituall Kingdome and Government of the Church of Christ , &c. This Collier ( as it appears by his Letter before mentioned ) is a Master Sectarie , a man of great power among them , and hath Emissaries under him , whom he sends abroad and commands to go into severall parts , as Syms , Row , &c , and supply his place in his absence ; and as you have heard of him formerly , so since my second part of Gangraena came abroad , a godly Minister out of the West writ thus to me of Collier ; He was driven out of the Island of Garnesy , because of his opinions and turbulency , as a godly Minister of that Island told me , and he could not deny it himself when I asked him the question : He hath done much hurt in Limington , Hampton , Waltham , and all along this Country . I had once a conference with him upon two questions for five houres space ( sufficient time for one to trouble himself with such a vain unruly taulker . First , concerning the Morality of the Sabbath . Secondly , concerning Baptisme ; in both which he denyed , I affirmed : It would require ●great deal of time to give you an account of all particulars ; and the truth is , if I should , some passages would have an ill reflex upon some men of note and power , with whom perhaps it will not be safe for me to meddle : And in a Letter from the same Minister , printed in this third part of Gangraera , page , 40. 41 , Collier being mentioned , he is said to be the first that sowed the seeds of Anabaptisme , Antisabbatarianisme , and some Arminianisme among the rest in these parts . A Copie of a Letter to a tittle sent from some of the Inhabitants of Devizes , to a worthy Member of the House of Commons . Right Worshipfull , MAy it please you to be certified by us of certain passages this day at the Church , in the time of Divine service ; That is our Minister ( Master Sheappard ) being in the Pulpit was commanded by one Captaine Pretty ( who is under the command of Colonell Ireton ) and who with his souldiers are ( to our great burthen ) quartered with us ) to be silent and to come forth of the Pulpit , saying ( in threatning termes ) he was unfit to preach , and that he was yesterday ( being Satturday ) druncken , which evidently can be proved to the contrary , the Gentleman being ( to our knowledge ) a very temperate and Religious Divine ; ) This Captaine was assisted with one Master Ives and Master Lambe , who are ( as they say ) Preachers , and divers souldiers armed in a most irreverent manner , to the abominable disturbance of the whole Congregation , and ( as we conceive ) to the great abuse and disgrace of the Honourable Parliament . By meanes where of our Preacher fearing ( as was too too much cause ) what dangerous effects such indecent and impious demeanours might produce , was enforced to depart , and dares not to come in sight ; so that we were destitute of preaching this day : Whereof we thought good ( being thereto ( as we beleeve ) bound in duty and good conscience ) to acquaint your Worship withall , hoping by your industrious meanes these our most intolerable griveances may be taken into Religious consideration , and we thereof eased ; which we earnestly begg of you , ( our approved good friend and Countryman ) may be effected . These aforesaid abuses can be ( if occasion ) witnessed by the whole Congregation . From the Devizes this present Sunday , the 6. of September , 1646. I Have received lately certaine Information , from some who are come out of Wales , that a Trooper of Colonell Riches Regiment hath been for divers weeks last past in Wales in Radnorshire , and Brecknockeshire , a preaching and dipping , where he hath vented many Doctrines of Antinomianisme and Anabaptisme , and rebaptized hundreds in those Countries ; Among others , one woman whom he dipped , he held so long under water , that what with the water getting into her , and cold she died of it within a day or two . This Trooper going from these Countries into Mongomeryshire another Countie of Wales to preach and dippe , some in command and Armes for the Parliament , seized on him and committed him to prison ; but within a while after this commitment , by meanes used by some in the Army there comes an order from higher Authority to those who committed him to release him , and so he was set free . A Religious Commander who comes from thence tells me , the preaching and dipping of this Trooper and other such , makes the Countries being newly reduced , have an ill opinion of the Parliament ; and many of the people say , these are your Preachers at London , and such Preachers as the Parliament sends ; for they being ignorant people , think verily these men are sent forth by the Parliament to preach to them . This Commander tells me also there is a strong report in those Countries of Wales where he hath been , that there are some Sectaries preach for Circumcision , and that some have been Circumcised , but the truth of that he cannot assert , as of the rest , but must have more time to find it out . There is a Minister now in London , or here abouts , who going to a meeting of the Sectaries , heard one of them in his Exercising , and preaching to the company assembled , affirme that he was Jesus Christ ; whereupon this Minister spake to him , and said how can you be Jesus Christ , where are the prints of the nailes in your hands ? unto which this wicked Sectarie replyed showing him his hands , here they are , and in one of his hands there were some markes , which he said were the prints of the nailes ; but said this Sectarie , for all this you will not beleeve me to be Christ unlesse you saw Miracles , and turning over his Bible to the Book of the Revelations , this Sectary quoted a place that Miracles were wrought to confirme the Doctrine of Divells , which saith he you would have me to shew to confirme the truth . This is a most certain story , related by an eare and eye witnesse to a Noble Earle of this Kingdom , and to some others , and the place where this Sectary dwells related also with many circumstances . Some of the Sectarian souldiers quartering very dately at a Towne in Lester shire , upon the Lords day some of them shooed their horses ; others who came into the Church , disturbed and affronted a godly Minister one Master Boh●mus Minister of the place , ( put in by the meanes of Sir Arthur Hazelrig , to whom he had formerly relation ) who as he was reading in the Scriptures that passage , The secret of the Lord is with them that feare him ; some of them stood up and said that was a lye ; and so insolent was their carriage , that this good Minister was glad to get him out of the way . And as their carriage was so in the Church , so a Townsman who rented the Tythes , being upon horse in the field looking after his Tyth corne , some of these souldiers coming into the field asked who that was , and being told he was a man that came to gather Tyths , they came to him , and one took one leg , and another the other , and others laid hands on him in other parts , and threw him off his horse abusing him , and hazarding the limbs of the man , because he renting the Tythes , came to look after them . When the Army was marching from Exeter for Oxford , upon their marching , there was a Fast kept by the Army , and upon that Fast day divers of the Sectarian souldiers instead of keeping it were drinking all the day in Ale-houses and many of them were stark drunk . Of this there was a Letter written from a worthy Colonell in the Army , which was communicated to divers persons of worth , and a worthy Member of the House of Commons who read it , and knew all the particulars , of place , time , &c. related it to me in the hearing of a Member of the same House . A Copie of a Lettter to a tittle sent to me from two worthy Ministers in Norwich . Sir TThe second part of Gangraena , gives us an intimation , that you intend a more large and full reply unto him , whose jugling aquivocations , and fallacies have cleared you , and deservedly branded himself and the rest of his fiction , with the name of Cretensis : your work ( the Title page tells us ) is a fresh Discovery of the Errours , Heresies , Blasphemies of the Sectaries of this time . We are heartily sorrie , that we have so reall grounds , and so much cause in our City of Norwich , to contribute any thing to so sad , ( yet necessary ) work ; How daring and insolent they be , appeares as by many other things , so by this , that one of them professed openly ( which we can prove ) that they would set up and maintaine in the City an Independent Lecture , in despight of the Magistrate . What scorne , cont 〈…〉 ely , and reproaches we and our Brethren of the Ministery meet with all , you may guesse by this inclosed ; which information was taken by the Major , as appeares by the date June , 18. 1646. and was the day following deposed in open Court ; Whereupon this woman Priscilla Miles was by the Major and Justices bound over to the next Sessions : The paper we send is no Transcript , but the very information taken by the Town-Clark , and subscribed by the hand of the Major , and Informant ; We leave it to your wisdome , whether you will stifle and lay it aside or make use of it for the publike , and subscribe our selves Norwich June 25. 1646. Your Brethren and fellow labourers in the Lords worke . John Carter . John Thornbe●ke . The Information of Richard Gunton , Weaver , taken before Henry Watts , Major of the City of Norwich the 18. of June , 1646. HE saith , that Priscilla the wife of Richard Miles of Saint Margarets Parish , hath often times abused Master John Carter the Minister of Saint Peters Parish , by very vild and wicked revilefull speeches , as namely , about three weeks since she said , that the said Master Carter was one that ought not to preach to a Congregation of people , for he did not teach the Gospell of Jesus Christ , but was an opposer of it so far as he was able , and that when he should be preaching of the Gospel of Christ , then he was talking of the height and length of the Tower of Babell , which were lyes ; and further said it was a thousand pitties he was not pulled out of the Pulpit by the eares ; And she further said , that she did think the intent of his heart was when he came into the Pulpit to blaspheme God , and to draw men from Christ so farre as he was able : And she further said , that before three yeares come to an end those black-coted preachers that now did preach in the Steeple-houses , should have their black coates and gownes pulled over their eares , and that there should not be one of them left ; and she said , the said Master Carter , and such as he is were sent from the Devill and the Pope , and so they continued and lived Devills here : And hee further saith that about a moneth since the Informant caused his servant to read some notes of a Sermon of Master Thornebecks , the said Priscilla came into his house , and this Informant commending Master Thornebecks Sermon , she said that he spake lyes , and it was a thousand pitties that he was suffered and not pulled out of the Pulpit , and said he was turned out where hee was before , and if he had been good hee should never have come here : And he further saith , that about Lady last a maid servant of Henry Gunton said , that one Renniger , who had teached in a private house , was a man who was sent from God , and fitter to teach then Carter , for he was not sent from God , and further said , that they were none but Whoremasters , Drunkerds and Lyers , that would speak against the Anabaptists . Henry Watts Major . Richard Gunton . And he further saith , that the said Priscilla about six weeks since , said that the Prophets in the Old-Testament prophesied two and fifty lyes , which was occasioned by some discourse that was between this Informant , and the said Priscilla upon some places of Scripture ; And then this Informant shewed her a place in Scripture , in the ninth Chapter of the Romans , and she said Saint Paul lyed , and said he did acknowledge himself to be so to gaine some to Christ : And at another time before that , about a quarter of a yeare since when this Informant and the said Priscilla were in discourse together , this Informant shewed her a place of Scripture , which were the words of Christ , she took the book and threw it out of her hand and said , that was not ordered by the holy Ghost to be printed , but it was the rogue Printer that did put it in . Henry Watts Major . Richard Gunton William Gunton doth likewise informe that he hath heard the said Priscilla Miles say , that Master Carter did blaspheme God , and he likewise saith , that she said ▪ Master Thornebecke preached a false doctrine , and if she had been there , she would have bidden him come down you old foole . A Copie of a Letter to a tittle written to me from a godly Minister at Dover . Sir , THough the Stories of Errors and Heresies be so sad as that pious souls cannot but mourn and sigh , and grieve much at the reading of them ; yet since your publishing of them is many wayes usefull , as that false Doctrines and false Teachers might bee discovered and made odious , and that truth might bee the more manifest to , and lovely in the professors of it , opposita juxta se posita magis elucescunt ; Wherefore I have sent you a Copie of those Errors which were stifly defended by one William Bowling of Crambrock in Kent , on Wednesday last , the eighth of July 1646 in my passage with him in a pair of Oares from Gravesend to London , there bee five other passengers in the Boat that did witnesse these Errors and Heresies to be stoutly asserted by the party aforesaid , so that you may be confident you shall publish nothing but the Truth , in publishing that these Errors following were vented and justified by him in lesse then foure houres passage upon the waters . 1. He affirmed that Adams sinne in eating the forbidden fruit did not deserve Hell. 2. That Heavens blessednesse was not proposed to Adam in case of his obedience , therefore Hells torments were not threatned to Adam , nor due to him in case of his disobedience . 3. That all the children of Adam that dye in their infancie , whether they be children of Turks or Infidels , are undobtedly saved , as well as the children of Christians , and would prove it out of John 1. 29. where , by sinne he meant only Originall , where he seems to crosse his first point . 4. That Christs bloud did not purchase Heaven for any man. And being asked how came the Saints to be in Heaven : He answered , Heaven is a gift given to the Saints as a reward of Christs righteousnesse without relation to his Death and Suffrings which were endured for to be our example , not to purchase Heaven for us . 5. That Christ shed his bloud for kine and horses and all other creatures , as well as for men , miserably perverting that Scripture in the eigth to the Romans 19 , 20 , 21 , 22. verses . 6. That the Heavens and the Earth mentioned , 2 Pet. 3. 7. shall not be set on fire , nor are they reserved for the judgement and perdition of ungodly men ; And that there is no other fire in Hell , then the Hell that is and shall be in mens consciences . 7. That the souls of Divels and all other men are mortall as well as their bodies , and that there was none immortall but God. 8. That if the soul which was the breath of God were not mortal , then the breath of God , which is part of God , should be eternally tormented in Hell. 9. That ( those words ) to day , or , this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise , is so to be understood ( 1 ) at the day of Resurrection when I come personally to reign upon earth a 1000 yeers , at that day shalt thou be with me in my Kingdom , for there is Gods Kingdom which Christ has now , and there is Christs Kingdom , which the Theifshall share in then . 10. He a●firmed that place Revel . 20. 6. to be meant of a personall reign of Christ in his body upon earth a 1000 yeers . 11. He affirmed that place in Eccles . 12. 7. is not to be understood as if the soul after death was really separated from the body , for sayes he , the souls of men rest in the grave with their bodies till the Resurrection , and then Christ raises up both together ; the soul may return to God that gave it , though it lay with the body in the grave , for God is present every where , and the soul went no more to God then the body did . 12. It is injustice in God to punish the souls of the wicked in Hell while their bodies lay at rest in their graves , for seeing both were sinners together , both must be sufferers together , if God should punish the soul of Cain in Hell sive or six thousand yeers before he punish the body of Cain , he then would shew himself partiall in his distribution of justice . 13. He said , sinne was not conveyed ●o Adams posterity by Adams loynes , He was askt , how then came we to be sinners ? He answered , only by Satan , for Satan was the father , and our hearts was the mother to receive Satans seed , for the Devill is the father of all actuall sinnes in men , and begets sinne in them as the Adulterer begets an Adulterous ●●ood upon the Adulteresse , there can be but one father of one child , so there can be but one father of sinne , and that is the Devill , for he is called the father of lyes . 14. And he being told that the Devill was but a partiall not a totall cause in the production of sinne , for the Devill he works sinne instigando , by temptation , and corrupt nature works sinne efficaciter agendo & operando , by begetting actuall sinnes , James 1. 15. Lust it bringeth forth sinne . And the law in Pauls members did bring me ( saies Paul ) into captivity to the law of sinne . But he replyed saying , The Devill was not only a partiall , but a totall father in begetting sinne upon Adams pure soul , for Adam had no corrupt nature to help him sinne the first sinne , therefore it was wholly from Satan . I told him the Devill could not by his temptation defile a pure soul , that is , not consenting to his temptation , for then he would have defiled Jesus Christ when he was tempted by the Devill , therefore I conceive the chief cause of Adams fall was the consent of Adams own will , which could not be forced by Satan , because he had power to stand against Satans temptations , as well as power to fall . But seeing there would be no end of dispute , I desired the people present in the Boat to beware of his Errors . But he said , they were such as I that did deceive the people , and we would not open our eyes to see the light ; our receiving of Tyths did blind us , but he hoped shortly there would be no Tythes paid in England . How then will you have the Ministers of the Gospel live of the Gospel ? 15. He answered they must take such as the people will give them , and if their people will not maintain them , they must work with their hands as Paul did . 16. He further said our Ministers of the Church of England were Antichristian Ministers , and our Parochiall Congregations were no Churches , nor was there any Nationall Church now under the Gospel , though I told him where ever there is a Nation professing the Gospel according to the Word , there must needs be a Nationall Church under the Gospel , But in England there is such a Nation professing the Gospel , and to be ruled according to the Word of God , witnesse our Nationall Covenant ; some corrupt members in the Nation do not hinder the being of a Nationall Church , I askt him what he thought of the representative body of the Nation now assembled in Parliament , and of the Clergy now assembled in the Synod , He answered , as for the Assembly of Divines , they are as bad as other Ministers , and that he hoped shortly they would be as contemptible as the Bishops are ; and that unlesse they could prove themselves to be guided by an infallible spirit , the Parliament need not accept their advise , though they have called them to give their advise in the things of Christs Kingdom ; but the Parliament I hope shortly will dismisse them , sayes he , and call others in a new Assembly , that may advise them better then they do . Sir , I have hitherto told you a few things of those many that were in discourse between this William Bowling and my self , hee wearied me and perplexed me so with his erroneous , hereticall , and wild disputation , that when we came ashore at Billinsgate , I was sorry that I forgate to have him apprehended here , before the Committee of Examinations , who would have sifted him to purpose . I do hear that Master Williamson of Cranbrook hath heretofore had him before the Committee at Ailesford in Kent for some misdemeanors , And I hear by others that the man doth Patrizare in some of his opinions , but no wonder the world is full of such , and the Church too , and there must be Heresies , and Sects , that they which are approved may be made manifest among us . The good Lord in due time purge his Church , and now his Fanne is in his hand , let us pray that he may thoroughly purge his floore ; nothing but pure Wheat shall be in the Lords Barne : Lord thy will be done in Earth as it is in Heaven , so commending your holy labours both in Pulpit and Presse to the blessing of God I rest Your lover in the Truth , and for his sake who is ipsa veritas . Nichol. North. From Dover , July 13. 1646. Sir , Last day repeating to my people here in Saint James Parish , the summe of these Errors , that they might avoid the like , Captaine Temple ( a great stickler in this Town for the maintenance of all Sects as I hear ) sent me this letter after Sermon , being ( as it seems ) displeased that I should forewarn my people of Heresies and Errors , I pray consider of it , and make the best use of it you can . The man is a stranger to me and I an to him , I never saw him to my knowledge , and he did not hear me preach that day he wrote to me , though in his Letter he sayes he is my observer . Mr. North , DOubtlesse you may get into your peoples affections with enveighing against any pretenders to Religion , as if all such did hold such points as your story wherewith you filled up your hour . But I pray Sir , be so honest as to tell them this afternoon that it was very likely that Tiltboat ●ent ▪ your companion to London was an Atheist one of your Church of England : For such swearers , drunkards , blasphemers , do use to go in your Tilt-boat , and there talk of Religion according to your story ; But all wise men know your objects of spleen called Independents , Anabaptists , &c. hold fundamentalls in Religion and can maintain it by Scripture better then your self . Your observer Miles Temple . Dover the 12. July 1646. This is a true Copie to a tittle , of Master Temples Letter sent to Master North on the Lords day , July the 12. 1646. Attested by Nicholas North , John Dy●us , Ministers . A Copie of a Letter from a worthy Minister in the West of England . Worthy Sir , I Had not the happinesse either to see or heare of the second part of Gangraena , till within these very few dayes ; The first part did so much good in weakning the reputation of the Sectaries , and marring their market wheresoever it came , that it is not unlikely there may be meanes used by some agents in London to hinder the spreading of this ; How it comes to passe I know not , but if any corrupting Books come forth , making for Independency or any of the Sects , we are sure to here of them soon enough , and finde them in too many hands : I am glad you have made good your ground so well against Cretensis , whose bitter , arrogant , unministeriall stile and passages , will be enough to lay open to the world the temper of the mans spirit , though you should be silent . In that which concernes Master Burroughs , I thought verely you had been mis-informed ; He utterly denyed the truth of that relation to a good Presbyteriall friend of his and mine , who alwaies hath had him in good esteem for piety ; sure it will amaze his friend and many others , when they shall see this largenesse of conscience in Master Burroughs : You cannot immagine how I was struck at the reading of it ; If Saints of the first magnitude in the Independent way , the greatest pretenders to conscience can do this , what credit can we give to the rest ? such Presbyterians , as they will scarce owne to be Saints , have not that latitude of conscience to tell 〈…〉 willingly , much lesse write it , print it and give it under their h●●ds to all the world ; This is too too bad . As concerning that Collier whom you spake of in your Book , I could give you a large relation , as how he was banished out of Garnesey ( he and many more of his followers whom hee had seduced ) for their heresies and turbulent behaviour ; afterwards imprisoned at Po 〈…〉 th ; 〈◊〉 was the ●irst that sowed the seeds of Anabaptism , Anti-sabbatari●●ism ; and some Arminianisme among the rest in these parts ; hee hath had the boldnesse to publish two or three pamphlets full stuffed with erroneous principles , and ●avouring of an illitterate Carter , or an Husbandman , ( for so he is by his calling , I heare ) though now by usurpation a Preacher : The first time he preached amongst us ( which was in time of publike exercise ) some that heard him , said afterwards if that were true which Master Collier had taught them , they would never heare any of our Min●●ters more : You may guesse his doctrine by the use was made of it ; doubtlesse 〈◊〉 was stronge poison he gave them that wrought so strongly at first ▪ Sir , if I were not in great haste , I should writ more at large ; I should be glad to heare from you in a word o● two , how things are likely to goe , for which I shall rest June 1646. Your thankfull friend . A Copie of a Letter sent from some of the Committee of the City of Exeter , to some of that City here in London . GEntlemen we referre you to our former Letter sent you by post , wherein we gave you information of the imprisoning of our honest Citize●s by the Deputy Governour and Officers of that Garrison , they yet continue in custody : The Committee was refused to have the knowledg of the cause of their imprisonment . Our Constables are opposed in doing their duties ; in a word , they do openly contemne , and violently incroach upon the civill power contrary to former ordem sent them : Yesterday they demanded more monies of us for the Garrison ; We do what in us lyeth to oppose them in their undue courses . But the insolencie of this day is such , that we thought it our duty to make this present dispatch to you , doubting what a day may bring forth . The cause is thus ; we taking notice of the frequent preaching of Captaines at the Castle , Guild-Hall , and in private housés , and of their drawing away of the people , thought it necessary , with the advice of Ministers , to have the Ordinance of Parliament of the twentie sixth of Aprill , 1645. to be published , which prohibits all such to preach as were not ordained Ministers , &c. which accordingly was read at the Cathedrall before the morning Sermon this day ; The Deputy Governour hearing it , commands it to be read the second and third time , the Officers jeering and scoffing all the time of the publishing of it , in contempt both of the Ordinance and of the Committee . After the Sermon was ended , the Deputy Governour most presumptuously stands up in the Bishops seat , and takes upon him publikely to give the meaning of the Ordinance , and saith aloud , that it did not forbid their meetings , and that in the after-noones they would have their exercise in the Custle ( which accordingly they had ) and that he had the command of the City , and of all that were in it ; with many words to the like effect : After stands up Captaine Leivtenant Vernum , and openly saies that in despight of men they would have their exercise , adding at last with submission to Authority ; Presently after Master Parsons , who published the Ordinance was sent for , and although he shewed the order of the Committee , yet he was sent to prison by the Deputy Governour ; the whole Church was in an uproare and the City is in disorder ; what the consequence may be we know not ; we have been and still are affronted by the Garrison , and the civill power is in a manner trampled under foot . We conceive the publike presumption to interpret an Ordinance of Parliament , and to commit to prison the publisher of it , is such an act as cannot be paralled in the whole Kingdome . We have written to Master Prideaux very earnestly about it , and have desired him to impart it to the Committee of the West ; the like request is made to you , that so some speedy course may be taken herein , and an answer returned to Exon. 2. August , 1646. Your affectioned friends and servants Samuel Clark. Richard Saunders . Richard Crossing● This is a Coppie of a former sent last night by a Post at nine of the clock under Mr Prideaux cover ; the packet was superscribed for the Parliaments service , which packet going out of East-gate was stopt by the Officers of the Garrison , and was broken open ; the Post-boy wasstopt about three houres between East-gate and the draw-Bridge , and then a packet was returned , and put into his hands againe , and he willed to depart , the boy being unwilling , had twelve pence given him and so went away . We are in great haste , and have sent this bearer expresse , unto whose relation we refer your for more particulars ; He that commanded the guard gives us certain information that the packet was stopt as above , and broken open , and he promises to bring three or foure more to testifie it . Exon. 3. of August , 1646. One of the clock . Since upon examinations , we ●inde the stoping and opening the Letters to be true . UPon Sunday being the second of August , 1646. about nine or ten of the clock in the night , the aforesaid Committee had dispacht away a packet and Post , directed to the Honourable Edward Prideaux , a Member of the Honourable House of Commons , and at the foot of it superscription for the Parliaments service , which packet was cleared out of the Gates by two Constables of the said Citie , who said to the Postillian , goe hasten on thy way , to which some of the guard said , and the plague goe with them , but Captaine Vernon and some others laid in waite between the Port , and the out-work , to intercept the Post , and took from the Postillion the said packet , which immediatly was opened by them , and reading the same they laughed and jeered thereat ; afterwards they commanded some Musketeers to guard the Postilion that he may carrie the packet to the Deputy Governour , which they did ; and after three houres time the said Captaine Vernon and some others returned with a Pa●ket , directed to Colonell Hamman , or in his absence to Colonell — or in his absence to — When the packet was delivered , the Postillion replyed this is not my packet , I will not goe with this but returne to my Master to acquaint him thereof , whereupon some of the Captaines said , Sirah get you gone , and withall gave him a shilling . Copies of Letters , and extracts of Letter ▪ s written from the Army , Garison Townes and other parts of the Countries unto Friends in London and Westminster , concerning some Officers , Souldiers , and Preachers who are Sectaries . Gentlemen , NOtwithstanding all orders , they persist in incroatching on the civill Authority ; Yesterday in the Market they set Sir Francis Fulfetts sonne a Minister in the stocks , under the gallowes before the Guild-hall for being drunk , refusing to accept of five shillings tendered by him for the poore ; he deserved punishment , but it was out of their cognizance , and their jeers , and scoffs did plainly manifest they aimed and envied more at the function then at the fault . We have since the departing of the expresse , had full testimony of the intercepting , breaking open and reading of our Letters by Captain Leivtenant Vernum , and some other of the Captaines , and sending another directed packet to Governour Hamond instead thereof ; And this returne they set a guard on the Post-house , and had we not been very vigilant and dilligent , we should have missed out Letters . They soare very high , and if their wings be not clipt 't will be very dangerous , but if the proverbe be verified , pride must have a fall . Exon. August , 8. 1646. Your truly affectionate Friends , Samuel Clark. Richard Saunders . Adam Bennet . Richard Crossing . James Gould . Gentlemen , The Martialists begin againe to shew themselves in their former colours , and reassume their late usurpation : They have of late rescued a prisoner from the Sergiants Arrest : The last Fast day one of the Captaines affronted the Constables in their office in observance of the Ordinance for the Fast , not permitting them to question such as ridde and travelled on that day . Exon. August , 18. 1646. Your friends and servants , Samuel Clark. Richard Saunders . James Gould . Richard Crossings . A Copie of a Letter written from a godly Minister then in the Army . Our Army is lazy , they feare that they shal bee disbanded before our deare Brethren depart the Kingdome ; They raile against the City , and Assembly , because of the Remonstrance . The House of Lords are much vil●●ied by them , and our Noble Scots constantly abused : In their Sermons Master Del , and Saltmarsh preach free grace , and say , Christ judges not by the eye , or eare , he regards not mens prayers or duties ; if they have Christ in their heart , though they do not read and pray , and trade in duties , Christ judges them according to their heart . Secondly , We have no use of secular power , and they that would borrowe the Magistrats power to make a Reformation in the Kingdome of Christ are Anti-christian ; it is an evident signe that they have not the word nor spirit to speak for them : Alas what can the Magistrate convert soules with the civ●ll sword ? the wicked are to be slaine only with the breath of Christs lips , Isa . 11. 4. That was Master Dels Text before the Generall . I told them that if this doctrine were true , they might disband the Army . Thirdly , They pressed hard to have the law of Love and Liberty observed , that there may be an equality ; that is their phrase and the Anabaptists . Fourthly , They are most offended with that passage of the Remonstrance about places of publike trust . Fifthly , There is no need of Universities ; for if men be annointed with the spirit , and accepted amongst the Saints , they are sufficiently qualified for the Ministery . Sixthly , Paul Hobson the Taylor , and Leivtenant Colonell Hewson the one-eyed Shoomaker ( as Master Peters calls him ) are the most renouned preachers , but Hobson hath saluted the Army with a farwell Sermon , and is sent as an Emissary to Exeter , to raise a party there . Seventhly , Banbury Castle must not be slighted , they say it may be a Garrison for the Saints , it is conceived to be the strongest in England . They use an Argument which takes with people much , that if they will joyne with them , they shall pay no Tythes ; and some are so foolish to give out , there is a considerable party in all Countries where ere they have been , that will stand for them , so they may be excused for paying Tythes . Ninthly , Though that Argument do generally take with prophane men , yet they see there are a company of godly men that are willing to pay Tythes ; to them therefore they urge all Arguments against mixed communion , and they assure them that the Assembly will beare with all close dangerous Malignants that can speake Greek and Latine , if they be not scandalous in their lives , and will conforme to the Presbyteriall government and observe the Directorie . Tenthly , They would not have the old military Orders observed , which was set forth by the Earle of Essex , that Blasphemers should be bored through the tongue : The Argument which they urged was , that sinnes whi●h are directly against God , should be punnished only by God , yet they confesse that bold sinners should be admonished by the Church , and beare a spirituall censure : I pleaded that men did consist of a soule and body , and that both joyned in this sinne , the Devill in the soule making use of the tongue to vent Blasphemies against the God of Heaven , and therefore it was fit that the tongue should be pnnished ; and that it was probable that those spirituall meanes should work the better , which were used for his reformation and edification ; and with much adoe by some under-hand dealing with honest Commanders , wee prevailed to have the Blasphemer punished . I hope there will be a disbanding very shortly ; if not , there are five Regiments that want Colonells , and if there could be five Presbyterians put in , the Independents would be well ballanced , for there are a great many considerable men in this Army well affected to all godly Presbyterians . June . 3. A Copie of a Lettter to a Member of the House of Commons . SIR , IF Independents be made Governours of Castles , Cities , and strong holds as fast as they are taken ; if under a pretence of frugality for the state , and reducing of Regiments , Presbyter Commanders are frequently outed , and the Independents prefer'd to their places ; if the souldierie under Presbyterian Commanders be unpaied , and thereby inforced to abuse the Country to the dishonour of that party , and the contrary party paid , and by that meanes gaine affections every where ; if ( under a pretence of charity ) Independents plead in the behalf of the greatest Malignants , and by that meanes scrue into their favours to make a party ; if their agents be working every where to chuse Parliament men of their own opinions ; if they be devising to send away the Scots into Scotland , and the Presbyterian Commanders and souldiers into Ireland ; ought not these things to be seriously and speedily considered , and forthwith indeavours used for the preventing the effects which the premises may produce . Your humble servant . Some passeges taken out of the Originall Letter , sent from a godly Minister in Northamptonshire to a Friend of his a Common-Councell man here in London . SOme of Colonell Whalies souldiers quartered with us ; full of Errours of a high nature ; The Lord reduce or rebuke them ; I feare they will scatter much poyson as they spread their quarters , alas the poore soules in danger of their seducements : They are full of high invectives and scornes against the Parliament , Ministery , and all kind of religious duties . After a fortnights free quarter , they had our free leave to march , and are marched beyond Market Harborough , and are about Lough-Borrow in Lester-shire ; Though they draw North-ward , yet I hope not to the ends that some do hope , viz. to encounter with our Brethren : I have heard some of them say , that had they the opportunity , they would be more bitter against them , then ever against the Cavaliers ; but I hope their expectation shall perish , Septemb. 1. 1646. The extract of a Letter sent to a Citizen of London , from a godly Minister in Darbyshire . SEctaries abound , strange yea damnable opinions are maintained with much zeal and pretence of conscience , by those who ( I feare ) were never acquainted with a good conscience : Monarchie is misliked , and a new fashioned Government too much thirsted after : There are so many new fashions in Religion , that the true feare of God is almost grown out of fashion . Sir , I thank you for your remembrance of me , and I heare that Master Edwards hath yet more work for a Masse-Priest ; when it comes out I pray you let me have it . August , 10. 1646. An extract of a Letter from a godly Minister neer Bristoll , to a godly Friend of his in London . DEare Friend , we have peace for the present , and hope of plenty for the future ; that only which damps our comfort is , That whiles the Teachers were removed into corners , the envious man hath taken his opportunity and sowen tares , which spring up in our neighbour * City , abundantly , and are spread much over the Country ; the whole Kingdome I think is sick of the same disease ; Help Lord. A true Copie of a Letter to a tittle , of Mr Knollys the Anabaptist , which comming to the hands of some of the Committee of Suffolk , was shewn me and I extracted it out of the Originall . BEloved Brother , I salute you in the Lord ; your Letter I received the last day of the week , and upon the first day I did salute the Brethren in your name , who resalute you , and pray for you : The City Presbyterians have sent a Letter to the Synod , dated from Sion Colledge against my Toleration , and they are fasting and praying at Sion Colledge this day about further contrivings against Gods poor Innocent ones ; But God will doubtlesse answer them according to the Idoll of their own hearts . To morrow there is a Fast kept by both Houses and the Synod at Westminster ; They say it is to seek God about the establishing of Worship according to their Covenant . They have first vowed , now they make enquiry ; God will certainly take the crafty in their own snare , and make the wisdome of the wise foolishnesse ; for he chuseth the foolish things of this world to confound the wise , and weak things to confound the mighty . My wife and family remembers their love to you . Salute the Brethren that are with you , farwell . Your Brother in the Faith and fellowship of the Gospel Hanserd Knollys . London the 13. day of the 11. moneth call'd January , 1645. To his beloved Brother Mr John Dutton in Norwich , these deliver . Leave this Letter at Mr Buttevant his house to be delivered as a bove . A Letter from a Sectary with this suprescription , To his much honoured Captaine , Paul Hobson , at Mr Carwithyes house in Exon. Endeared SIR , MY best respects and service to you presented . That relation which formerly I had unto you , hath enboldened me to present you with these rude lines : It doth not a little rejoyce me that providence hath so disposed of it , as to bring you down into this dark corner of the Kingdome : It is my desire for you to the Throne of Grace , that God would cure that weaknesse of body , under which your spirit hath so long travelled , and that he would give you such strength and utterance of spirit , whereby you may be able to declare unto the world , the glory and the ●i●hes of the good newes of Jesus Christ , which he hath manifested to your soule : John saith , That which wee have seen with our eyes , and our eares have ●eard , and our hands have handled , even the word of life , that declare we unto you ; Such kinde of preaching and declarations of Christ , from experience of it in the heart , the Friests of England ( but especially of these Westerne parts ) are unacquanted withall . I should account it a happinesse , if God would so dispose of it as to open such a way , that I might have relation to you as formerly , That small remnant of the Saints in this Town will be very joyfull to see you here , and so shall he that desires to be Your servant in any office of love , Robert Carye . Dartmouth , June 12. 1646. THere is one Sims of Hampton a Shoomaker , as appeares by the following Examination , and a Letter presently following , who goes about as an Emis●ary all the West over , from place to pl●●e to infect the people , who at Bridgwater in Summersetshire being apprehended by some in authority , was examined and divers Letters found about him , written by severall Sectaries to the Saints ( as they call them ) in Taunton , and elsewhere ; this examination and Letters were sent up to a person of worth then in London , and that Gentleman g●ve the 〈…〉 me , so that I have the Originall Letters by me . The Examination of John Sims Shoomaker . SOnday the last of May , preached in the Parish Church of Middl●s●y , took his Text out of the 3. Col. 1. One Master Mercer , and Master Esquier Ministers , with a hundred more persons , and being desired to know how he durst pres●●e to ●●ach so publikely being not called , and an Ordinance of Parliament to the contrary , Answered , if Peter was called , so was he . 2. Being desi●ed to know what he teached contrary to the law of God and the lawes of the Land , answ 〈…〉 , why are they suffered to teach in London so neer the Parliament House ; and that he would allow of the Parliament , is for forth as they go● with his Doctrine . 3. Being desired to know whether he allowed of our Baptisme , answered no , that for his part he was baptized a year since , by one Master Sickmoore and his manner of Baptisings was , that the aforesaid Sickmoore went first into the water and he after him , so that he for his part would not allow of our Baptisme . The Letters taken about him . To the Saints in the Order and fellowship of the Gospel in Taunton . Your deare Brother Thomas Collier , desireth the increase of grace and peace from God the Father , and from out Lord Jesus Christ . Deare Brethren and Sisters , I have not had an opportunity of writing unto you untill now , although my spirit hath been up to the Lord for your continually : The Lord hath manifested his presence with me exceedingly in my journy ; I desire the Lord to raise up your heart in thankfullnesse , he hath gathered Saints in Poole by me , 14. took up the Ordinance at once , there is like to be a great work , and confirmed the Churches in other places ; I am not yet got so far as London , but I shall I expect to morrow : Dearely beloved my desire and prayer to our Father on your behalf is , that your soules may be satisfied with his fullnesse , that you may live above , and then your soules shall not want comfort : And my exhortation to you is to wait upon the Lord in his own way , and not to look forth into the world ; there is bread enough in your Fathers h●use ; There he hath promised his presence ; though you seem to want gifts , yet you shall not want the presence of your Father , your Jesus , if you wait upon him : There are two Brethren I suppose will visit you from Hampton , Brother Sims , and Brother Row ▪ whom desire you to receive as from the Lord. The 〈…〉 ted power of the Plesbyterians is denyed them , of which you shall heare more shortly . I desire to be remembred to all my kind friends with you and at present rest Gilford , April 20. 1646. Your deare Brother in the faith and fellowship of the Gospel , Thomas Collier . I shall see you as speedily as possible I may . To the Saints in the order and fellowship of the Gospel . MY deare ones in the Lord Jesus , I salute you , desireing him who is our head and husband , our life and liberty , our all and in all , to gather up our soules more abundantly into the glorious unity and fellowship of the Son of God , that you may not live upon these lower things , which are but instruments to conveigh light ●nd love unto us , I meane even Ordinances or the like , which indeed are but as a shell without the kernell , further then wee enjoy Christ in it . My deare ones , you are in my heart continually , and my desire is to be with you as soon as posible I can , to impart some spirituall gifts unto you , and to enjoy fellowship with Jesus Christ in you ; but what is this ? your are upon the heart of Christ , nay , ingraven upon his hand , and shall be had in everlasting remembrance before him . I am much in haste at present , the Post being coming forth of Town , only I have sent you these few lines and two Books here inclosed , as a remembrance of my love : I desire to be remembred to all my deare friends with you , and at present rest and remaine Your deare Brother in the faith and fellowship of the Gospell . Tho. Collier . London , May 2. 1646. To his Friend William Heynton Buttler in the Castle at Taunton these . DEare Brother in the Lord Jesus Christ , with the rest of our deare friends with you , my kind love remembrd ; my desire to you is that you will receive this bearer Master Reeves as a deare friend , for he is a Member in the order and fellowship of the Gospel with the Saints in Taunton : I need not tell you of the oppositions here in Taunton ; our Brother will tell you the particular passages ; our Governour does labour to beat us down , and doth say , that any meeting in private , is meerly to crosse the publike meetings , and that it is not out of tendernesse of conscience , but damnable pride that we do ; but this doth not any way cause us to draw back , or sadden our spirits , for our spirits are carried above the feare of men . All our friends are in good health , so I remaine Your deare Brother William Hayward . May 16. 1646. MOst kind and loving Brethren and Sisters in the Lord Jesus , my indeared love remembred unto all the Saints ; unto you I writ which are called unto the Lambes supper , who are arayed in pure fine linnen , and shining , which is the righteousnesse of Saints ; grace be with you and peace from God our Father , and from the Lord Jesus Christ ; be ye also patient therefore , and settle your hearts for the coming of Christ is at hand , which are kept for an inheritance immortall and undefiled , and that withereth not , reserved in Heaven for you ; and though if wee will have Christ , we must be tried , it shall be found unto our praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Iesus Christ . I rejoce that the Saints of Taunton , do break forth and t●ll of the in-comings of God in Christ upon your souls , having gone through many trialls and persecutions ; you may speak the more of the free love of God in Christ , preserving you , and giving you your life for a prey ; I do desire Christ to declare more and more the hidden things of God by his free grace in Christ ; yee have not chosen Christ , but I have chosen you , John , 15. 16. And I rejoyce that Christ is beginning to set up house-keeping , and his Saints shall not want while Christ have one penny ; Come buy without mony gold tried and white raiment , and anoint thine eies with eie-salve that thou maiest see : Christ hath made us set together in heavenly places ; and in the third of the Galatians Yee being baptized into Christ have put on Christ ; and the Church , I meane the Saints , who are Christs Temple , is still travelling in birth untill Christ be formed in them ; and the spirit of God will not forsake you , untill your mortall bodies shall appeare before Christ to be glorified ; then them than winne Saints to Christ are called Angels , Revel . 2. and Angels flie in haste , so I rest , Yours , as you are Christs , Nicholas Bodis . There was another Letter also taken about this Sims , written from one John Pool , for the strenghtning of the Saints in Taunton to suffer persecution , comforting them , that seeing that Christ by as great a power as that which raised him up from the dead , had brought them into the way , they might bee assured that by that same power he would carry them through that way to the wayes end : But the Letter being but weake , and having only generall things , I will not trouble the Reader with any more of it . THere is one Mr Tandy a great Sectary , who hath been in the North parts and at Yorke , with whom a godly and learned Minister of Yorke , by writing and Letters passed between them , hath had some debates a●out P●dobaptisme , and hath maintained against him these Theses or Positions . 1. That the Covenant that God made with Abraham and his seed , Genes . 17. was the Covenant of Grace or new Covenant . 2. That there is an outward being in this Covenant , which doth intitle to the signes and seales of it . 3. That Circumcision was , and Baptisme is a signe , and seale of this Covenant . 4. That Infants being the seed of Abraham were in that Covenant , and so were circumcised ; and so Infants being the seed of beleevers ( whether in truth or in profession only ) are within this Covenant , and therefore are to be baptized . I have seen Letters that have passed between them , 't is too long to set down the grounds , and the R●●li●● given by this learned Minister to him about the point of Poedobaptisme , the Jewish Sabbath , with other of his conceits : I shall briefly extract a few passages out of Master Tandies Letters which I have taken out of the originals themselves , they being sent to me ; but first of all I shall give the Reader an extract of that Letter sent from that learned and godly Minister to a worthy Member of the House of Commons , acquainting him with the true proceedings between them , and wishing they might be communicated to me . SIR , Not being able ( as I wrote the last week ) to send my Sermons about Poedobaptisme , I have sent some Papers whereby you may perceive something that hath passed betwixt me and an Anabaptist , yea ( as his owne writings will show ) more then an Anabaptist . He was a Minister before these times , and is ( as I have heard ) by name mentioned in Master Edwards his Gangr●●a . I wish he had a ●ight of his Letters , whereby he might have a more clear● and full character of the m 〈…〉 ; then yet perhaps he hath : 〈…〉 said that he doth earnestly desire all to give him what information they can in this kind , and truly I think he deserves to be incouraged , and assisted all that may be . It is a sad thing , and much to be deplorud , that such boldnesse and activity should be in so many to b●oa●h and abe●● such 〈…〉 rid and monstrous Errors ( as it seems ) are now daily vented ●nd maintained , and that so few should be fo 〈…〉 valiant for the truth , ready to stand up in defence of it . SIR , LE ts lay aside tradition , custome , the reputation of learning , and all selvish respects , and let speake and write so as knowing that we must shortly account 〈◊〉 Jesus Christ for all that we build , whether it be hay or stubble , gold or wood . For my part I am thus farre convinced by comparing Gods cleare providence , and some prophesies in the Revelations , which viewed together show me whereabouts we are , that I am confident within these very few yeers I shall see him wh●m our soul loveth , and much will it go to my heart if I either oppose a truth , or maintaine an error . Sir , le ts look about us , the vaile is not yet taken off , in something most good men have been blinded , it may be in this for one , 't is good to be tenderly jealous ; pardon me that I thus exhort you , I see so many temptations that strongly invite even godly men to contend for Poedobaptism , and so farre do I see also into the mystery of Antichrists sitting in the Temple of God as God , that I cannot but give a caution to the godliest man upon earth that undertakes the defence of this practise . Fourth day of the week . Yours Philip Tandy . SIR , I Received yours as I take it upon the third of this week : I could not get retirement and leasure to peruse it till this séventh . I accout it a Sabbath dayes work to plead for truth , and I am heartily content that Jesus Christ who searcheth the secrets of all hearts , should be both judge of it , and of my heart in discussing it . Now in this Letter Master Tandy fals upon speaking to those Theses sent by Master C. as that the Cov●nant mentioned , Gen. 17. was the New Covenant , which Master Tandy denies , and in his Answers to these Theses towards the énd of his Letter saith thus . That as in Circumcision which was a peculiar worship to the time of the Law nothing was done in it but by command , so in Baptisme which is a peculiar part of the Gospel worship nothing is to be done but by peculiar warrant now ; since then the command of Christ bears nothing , but the Baptisme of Beleevers , none but such are to be baptized ; nor they neither as the case stands now , till we see some come abroad with a clear Commission , to go about such a work . At the close I would wish you amongst other things , to consider this : Suppose the Saints as they were gathered by the preaching of the Gospel in the Apostles dayes had been still in all ages to this day carefull to baptize none but Beleevers , and had kept themselves in as much as lay in them pure from receiving any other into their communion , and had worshipped God solemnly upon the old seventh day , as upon Gods Sabbath . I would faine know what fault you could find with this Church so doing . Sir , if I can gaine leisure , which I confesse is very small , I will endeavour either before or after my departure hence , to let you see according to that which the Lord hath revealed to me , how the mystery of iniquity vailes us , nay and the whole world beside . Yours unfeinedly P. T. THe Minister formerly spoken of sends to M Tandy a large and full Answer to this last Letter , wherein he confutes him in all particulars expressed in his Letter , which Answer because t is so large , consisting almost of a sheet of paper close written , I shal sorbear to print , and shall only give the Reader a small part of it , viz. that which he saith to that part about Circumcision and Baptism . You take it for granted that Christs command bears nothing but the baptism of beleevers ; but how will this be proved ? That Christ commanded beleevers to be baptized , ye & only beleevers being of age when they enter into Covenant , this is granted ; but that therefore absolutely none but Beleevers ( actuall Beleevers ) by Christs command are to be baptized , it followes not . If Christ had continued Circumcision still , saying , G 〈…〉 &c. circumcise all Nations , He that beleeveth and is circumcised shall be saved ; Circumcision had been to be administred to Beleevers , and only to Beleevers in respect of such as were of age , when they would be admitted into Covenant ; yet should not this exclude Infants ( being the children of beleevers , and so in Covenant ) from Circumcision . So neither are such infants excluded from Baptisme , because Christ said Go , &c. baptise all Nations , He that beleeveth and is baptized shall be saved . When Circumcision was in use , faith was required in men of yeers , before it might be administred to them , Rom. 4. 11. yet this hindred not , but that it was to be administred to children . The Covenant being the same now as before , and only the signe and seale changed , viz. Circumcision into Baptisme ; as children were in the Covenant before , and therefore received the signe and seale that then was , viz. Circumcision : except we finde them excluded and debarred ( which we do not ) in all reason they are to be in the Covenant now , and therefore to receive the signe and seale that now is , viz. Baptisme ; The Covenant being inlarged , viz. to all Nations , should the signe and seale of it be straitned , viz. to them that are of yeares ? yea an inlargement of the signe and seale we find , viz. to females , but a restriction of it to those of yeares we do not find : Yea when Christ bids baptize Nations , Matth. 28. 19. does not that comprehend Children ? are they no part of the Nation ? And if the Children of beleevers be not in the Covenant , and to receive the token of the Covenant , then shall there be no difference betwixt them and the Children of Insidels , that one shall have no more birth priviledge then the other , but the Apostle teaches otherwise , 1. Cor. 7. 14. A Letter of Mr Tandy , to the Minister upon receipt of the above mentioned Papers . Sir , I Am making ready for my departure hence , and I have only so much leasure as to read yours , by reason of the multiplicity of occasions that take up the residue of my stay . How God will be pleased to afford me successe in my endeavours with you I cannot tell , but I will not be afraid to say that I am sure I defend the truth , and yet not I but the spirit of God that is within me ; I know what construction you will be apt to make of this expression , but I will reserve my defence , till I receive my fore-seen objection . I send you this to promise you ( as God shall enable me ) an answer to your Papers , but you must not expect it suddenly , because I know not what urgencies I may be put to , when I come to my journies end : By this which I have received , I see you beginne to be in some heate ; you commend me for my free dealing ; whether you do it ex animo , as liking my freedom indeed , I leave it to God to judge , that ere long will make the world know wherein they do amisse ; but in the interim let me tell you , that after the way that you call Judaism , worship I the God of my Fathers ; And I trust in God either to drive you into a necessity of denying there is any Sa●both day at all to be observed , or else of granting that which I contend for to be the right ; And if you do the former who is the Antinomian ? Where is the fourth Commandement ? If you do the latter , it s very probable we shall meet in the other controversie , since 't is acknowledged that they both hang on a string . Sir , since you commend freedome , I am emboldened to use a little more ; Expect before God end this quarrell that he hath with the Land , that God will bring all our hearts to submit with willingnes to his truth , or else he will consume us . The Lord in his mercy look upon us , and cause us to see the things which concerne our peace ; which is the desire of his soule who is Yours wheresoever you are Christs , P. T●ndy . A Copie of a part of a Letter written by a shee Sectarie . Deare Brother , TO fulfill your desires , I here give you a few answers to your propositions : First , for this proposition , what disorder will this produce if there be not prayer in families ? Answ . If whole families be Saints then you may pray with them , and pray as often as the spirit moves you ; But this is the misery , we have taken up things upon trust , and done what wee thought good , and have not eyed the rule and direction of the word . 2. Prayer is a naturall thing , for it is a principle of nature in all men to call upon God , so do Turks and Heathens ; but God is a God of knowledge , and what is not of faith is sinne ; so though the wicked pray , they being unbeleevers , their prayer is sinne : Paul in the Acts reproveth the superstitious ignorant worship of them there , when he found their superscription to the unknowne God , whom , saith he , yee ignorantly worship , him declare I ●nto you ; so that ignorant people they cannot pray , they must have God declared unto them . 3. Wee have no example nor precept in all the Gospel for Saints to pray with unbeleevers ; when Christ prayed he took his Disciples apart ; indeed he taught and exhorted all ; so the Saints in the Acts they prayed alone from the world ; and Christ saith goe preach the Gospel to all , he doth not say goe pray with all ; and Christ nor his Apostles never prayed with the world ; the Apostles taught in their Synagogues and expounded in their Assemblies , but not a word of praying with them ; and experience teacheth us how our hearts are straitned , and how wee limit the spirit ( if I may so speak ) when we pray with unbeleevers , and faith commeth not by praying with them , but by preaching , for faith commeth by hearing : I know no word for the Ministers praying with the world , nor Saints to joyne with them . Object . But Christ gave thanks : The Apostle Paul gave thanks before them all . Answ . Christs thanksgiving was sometimes miraculous , for by his blessing the creature he did a miracle ; so the Apostle's was too , as farre as I know ; for you know how wonderfully after hee and all with them were preserved : Or if we may give thanks with them , it is because all have a right to the creatures restored them by Christ , that in a way of exhortation or praise a Saint may informe them therein of their right by Christ . Object . But what shall they do that have families , shall they be as Heathens ? doth not the word say that he will pour out his w●ath upon the Heathen , and the families that call not upon his Name ? Answ . That makes nothing for it , for it is not said that the Heathen and these that know him not , shall call on his Name ; this is not for it , but to shew the misery of these that cannot ; sure it is sweet for Saints to eye the rule for all that they do : Sure I do not write this that I would diminish any of the unbeleevers priviledges ; for Christ Jesus knowes my heart is more pitifull unto them then ever ; but I finde in the word that the Gospel must be preached unto them , they must be exhorted and pitied and prayed for , and Saints must shine before them by a holy — The rest was torne away by a Sectary , it was signed M. D. Plymouth , the 5. day of the second moneth . 1645. And subscribed thus , To her Loving Brother Nicholas Couch in Dartmouth , This Couch is an Ensigne in Dartmouth . Animadvers . on this last letter by way of Confutation . Thanksgiving is made a part of Prayer as well as the other three Petitions , Intercessions , &c. 1 Tim. 2. 1 , 2. v. Acts 27. 35. Paul gave Thanks to God in the presence of them all , where in the Ship by many passages of that chapter , Acts 27. particularly the two first verses it is evident they were not beleevers , and so Christ Joh. 6. 10. 11. v. gave Thanks among them all , and set aside the Disciples , ther 's no ground to think any of them were beleevers , but called the multitude , men , and such like phrases , not Disciples : in 1 Corinth . 14. where the publike meetings of Christians are spoken of , and severall parts of worship described , as Singing , Praying , Prophesying , unbeleevers are spoken of as coming into those Assemblies where these parts of worship are performed , and they are not excluded from being present at one more then another , nor beleevers commanded to suspend Prayer upon their coming any more then Prophesying , but the chapter carries it as free to come in at all , and the Church free to performe Praying and Singing as well as Prophesying , notwithstanding unbeleevers present , compare these Verses together , 14 , 15 , 16 ▪ 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. As for those Answers in this Letter , that Christs Thanksgiving was miraculous , &c. they are meer subterfugies , and by the same reasons men might argue against all giving of thanks before meat , saying these examples of Christ and Paul were miraculous , and so not binding , but with these compare 1 Tim. 4. 3 , 4 , 5. verses , how mea●s are to be received with Thanksgiving , and sanctified by Prayer ( speaking of meats and drinks ) and then consider Christs and Pauls example , and it will show t is for our practise , besides t is such a Thanksgiving as hath Prayer and Petition in it for a blessing , as is cleare from the fifth verse , t is ●ancti●ied by Prayer , and Pauls Thanksgiving in that twenty seven of the Acts had Petition and Prayer in it , not only for the meat , but to raise up their dejected minds in the Ship almost killed with griefe , vide Calvinum in locum , Acts 27. 35. & lori●●m . Some Passages taken out of a Letter written out of Oxfordshire , to a Citizen in London . ONe Floid newly come to be a Preacher to the Troop of Major Huntingtons that now quarters at Aston Roreant , preaching in that Church on Sunday last , June the 14. on John 20. 17. Touch me not , I am not yet ascended ; collected from those words these three transcendent points . First , That Lay-men , Weavers , Tinckers and Coblers being gifted might be Preachers . Secondly , Learning was not any meanes or help to understand the meaning of the Scriptures . Thirdly , That any Chamber , Barne or Stable , or other place was as holy as the Church ; and that there was no holynesse in the Temple , for God destroyed it , nor in any Church . This Floid a youth of twenty yeares , did lie at Master Calverts the Bookseller at Ludgate-hill . Major Middle●ons man did not only rend with his hand the service-Book , but cut it with a knife , and burnt it in the fire at John Chiches of Kinston , and it set the Chimney on fire till they quenched it . And they justifie the burning of the ten Commandements , Creed , Lords prayer , Psalmes , ninty five Epistles and Gospels . I would bee glad to know of Mr Edwards the Antagonist of Hereticks what to do in this matter ; To whom though unknown , I present my love in the Lord. June 16. 1646. A Reverend and learned Minister living in Oxfordshire , was by some in the Army , and some of the Parish conspiring together , as he was preaching in his Church opposed and with tumults disturbed . There was one souldier a great Champion that did openly and boldly in the Church affirme that he was raised up of God immediatly , and inspired with extraordinary revelations , whom the Minister by this place of Scripture Matth. 24. 26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you , behold he is in the desert goe not forth : Behold he is in the secret chambers , beleeve it not ; overcame and put to a non-plus , so that they went out of Church with a kinde of a Diabolicall fury . TThere is one Master Del a Preacher in the Army , and Sir Thomas Fairfax's Chaplaine , who summer was two yeares , preached a strange Sermon at Lincolne , and since put out a Pamphlet against uniformity in Religion , calling it Anti-christian , &c. the man preaches and speaks much against Tythes , and yet besides his Chaplains place to the Generall , keeps a great living in Bedfordshire . This Master Del Expounding the seven last verses of the 54. of Isaiah , in Marston Church neer Oxford before the Generall and other Commanders and souldiers , June , 7. 1646. being Sabbath day in the forenoon used these , or the like words in effect , viz. 1. There are no more of the Church of God in a Kingdome , then there be such as have the spirit of God in that Kingdome . 2. Neither Old nor New Testament do hold forth a whole Nation to be a Church . 3. Whatsoever a State , an Assembly or Councell shall say , ought not to binde the Saints , further thenthe judgements of those Saints shall lead them . 4. The Saints are those that are now stiled Anabaptists , Familists , Antinomians , Independents , Sectaries , &c. 5. The power is in you the people ; keep it , part not with it . 6. The first party that rose against you , namely , the prophane ones of the Land , are already fallen under you ; and now there is another party , Formalists and carnall Gospellers rising up against you , and I am confident they shall fall under you . 7. They are willing to become subjects to make the Saints slaves , nay they are willing to become slaves themselves , that they may tread upon the necks of the Saints . 8. His Sermon or exposition for the greatest part of it tended meerly to division and sedition . 9. Being spoken with after his Sermon , by some of his hearers , to●ching these and such like passages , he said to this effect , his intentions were not according to his expressions , and hee thought he had preached only to souldiers . Peter Mills . John Haine . Nichoas Widmergole ▪ Henry Potter . Theophilus Smith . There were Copies of these Positions given into the hands of some Members of both Houses , and some Citizens with these names subscribed ; And when Master Del did put forth his Sermon with an Episte before it ; wherein some passages were inserted to cleare himself from these matters laid against him ; the Citizens above named put forth a Book entituled a Vindication of certaine Citizens that lately went to the Leaguer then before Oxford ; weherin they attest the seven former Positions against Mr Del , page 9. And of this Mr Del the Reader may read more of him in a foregoing Letter written by a Learned and godly Minister out of the Army . Some passages taken out of a Letter written lately by a godly Minister in Cheshire , to a worthy friend of his in London . George Young , Lieutenant Colonell Ger. souldier , on Sabbath was sevennight , I being absent , brake to peeces the railes which for these foure years have been transformed into seates very commodiously for the parish , refused to stay his hand at the instance of divers , ( who told him I would amend it if any thing were amisse ) telling them I would sooner set up such things then pull them downe , and that he would do it if I were present , and that the Church should down within a yeare ; and reported in the Towne that I was drunk with the blood of the Whore of Rome ; wisheth his tongue had cleaved to the roofe of his mouth when hee had taken the Covenant . And it 's much feared that spirit works mightily in Ger. Company and others . Five Independents are determined for the five Captaines of foot for this Country ; judge you what 's intended : Great striving hath been to get me out of my Lecture here that an Independent might come in ; but I have undertaken the Lecture if need be gratis , rather then any evill fall out by my removall . Some passages taken out of a Letter written from a Reverend and Learned Minister in the Northerne parts , to a worthy freind of his in London . AN eminent Parliament man of our Country came downe lately , with whom I had some conference about Master Edwards , and about the Schismes and Blasphemies that are broa●hed and connived at amongst you ; He said he thought that Master Edwards was a very wicked man , and did as much as was in him to embroyle the Kingdome in a new Warre , and deserved , &c. In all his discourse he savored of the new leaven , which I feare many of the higher powers are too much tainted with . I complained that Schismes and Schismaticks were to much suffered by them ; He answered that truth was victorious , and will be triumphant of it self ; and as when many thick mists gather about the Sunne in the morning , the Sunne by his own light and heate dissipates them by degrees , so would truth do all contrary Errors of it self in time ; and therefore it was but reason that men should first bee convinced of their Errors , and satisfied in their consciences by reasons and arguments , and not be compelled by force to constraine their consciences to mens wills . I objected Bests case to him , he said that Best shewed himself amoderate man ; and willing to be satisfied by reason , and to lay down his opinions if he might be convinced of them , and his conscience satisfied . I also spake of Lilburne to him ; he said he was a very good and deserving man , and thought that he might say and do and justifie all that was yet laid to his charge : He said that Anabaptists were not Hereticks , but only Schismaticks at the worst ; and that he thought the baptizing of Children could not be proved out of the word of God. I laboured to prove it by Scripture and reason , the testimonies of the most Orthodox Fathers , and the constant practise of the first best and purest times of the Primitive Church ; but he slighted my proofs , and said that my Scripture and reasons were not expresse and demonstrative ; and for the Fathers and practise of former times we were not to be ruled by them ; ex ungue leonem . He is learned and wittie , active , quick and ni 〈…〉 ble and magisteriall . I feare he hath many abettors which are ejusdem farinae : Yet I think that he is no broacher of these opinions , much lesse perswader of any to them , but only by way of discourse accidentally as thus with me . June 22. 1646. An Extract of a Letter written to me out of Lancashire . SIR , THere is imployed in this County by the House of Commons ( as t is commonly taken ) one Mathewes a man active and of strong parts ; he boldly and confidently denies the Scriptures to be the word of God , and pretends to Revelation ; we have heretofore signified to some Members of the House , what a scandall t is that such men should be imployed by them ; but cannot yet learn that they have put him out . I have here inclosed sent you two papers that were given me by one of our Sectaries ; here being divers more , and some that are active of his opinion . August 8. 1646. A Copy of the two Papers inclosed . GOod Christian Brethren , forasmuch as the immortality of the Soule is maintained to be a truth , whereof I am doubtfull ; I desire you who are able by sound Doctrine to convince the gainsayers , to make it good by Scripture that the Soul is immortall ; and that it may so appear , I desire you will be pleased in a rational way to proceed by giving in writing a definition of the subject , whence it is , and what it is , and where it is in man , and whether it be any part of man , and how , or when man is first possessed of it , and how it comes to be guilty of Adams sin , and what promise of Salvation is made unto it in Scripture , and how it is redeemed by Christ : and now desiring you will make it good by Scripture , what you do affirm , that so your Christian Brother may receive satisfaction , I rest and shall be thankfull unto you . Yours Thomas Sidebothom . This was delivered me July 28. 1646. This is the Originall . Mr. — I Received your Note , and for answer thereto , hoping you are not of the spirit of those which sent to Christ to intangle him in his words ; neither am I afraid to declare what my Faith is , for I beleeve the word of God contained in the Old and New Testament to be a truth ; yet in them I cannot find that man or any part of man is Immortal , but that he is wholly Mortal , even whole man is wholly Mortal , and ceaseth to have any lively Being betwixt Death and the Resurrection : Now if this be an Errour thus to beleeve , I require you as you are a Christian , and spiritual , to restore such a one in the spirit of mee●nesse , and to convince by sound Doctrine the gainsayer , proving by scripture what you do affirm , and if you do affirm a Mortal soule , that you will according to rationality give Answers to those Queries you have , and then I will Reply , that so we may bring it unto the ballance , and weigh the scriptures on both sides , and so hoping in a loving and Christian way to bring the grounds of these to light , I rest . Thomas Sidebothom . This was delivered me Aug. 3. 1646. and is the Original . A Copy of a Letter written to me out of Lancashire . SIR , THe bearer having a great desire to see you , & my self a greater desire to serve you ; from whose faithful labours in the ministry I have formerly received much good : I make bold to trouble you with these rude lines ; the inclosed will faithfully informe you of a sad accident fallen out in York-shire , if the knowledge of it have not come to you from better hands ; my self and some others are here ingaged with you in the quarrell against the Sectaries , and shall indeavour to serve you and the Church of God according to your desires expressed in your Gangraena : I hope ere long to present you with a true relation of the Independents gathering and constituting their Church at Sawerby in York-shire , which will not be unworthy your consideration ; we have for the present only one Independent congregation in all Lancashire , which never yet had Officers , it consists not of above thirty persons , most women , all of mean quallity ; Mr. Eaton of whose activity to promote this way I beleeve you are not ignorant , hath been the great apostle to promote their design in these parts ; all our Godly Ministers generally stand right , and in their course preach a weekly Lecture in Manchester against Independency . If I might have a few lines of direction from you by this bearer how I and the rest of my friends might best serve you , you should not fail of the faithfull indeavours of him who is Your reall servant to love you and serve you , May 25. 1646. Though I be a stranger to you and unknown , yet Mr. — can inform you what credit you may give to me and what I shall write . Some passages extracted out of a Letter written to me from out of the Northern parts . THe Church at Sawerby since our conference in March hath been blasted in its growth ; only one ( and she a woman ) hath been added . The Church at Birch which is but two miles and a half from Manchester , growes in number , but yet hath no Officers ( as I can hear of ) I shall hereafter give you a particular account of the Church of Duckenfield ; the ruling Elder there is a Sequestrator in Cheshire , and their Deacon a Sequestrator in Lancashire : The * Deacon I shall speedily bring upon the stage , and make a notable discovery of his knavery in couzening the state . Your reall friend to love and serve you . August . 3. 1646. A Copy of a Letter written out of Yorkshire concerning an Independent Church in that Country . SIR , MUch respected , I give you many thanks for your love when I was with you ; since we have spoken to Mr. Roats about a conference , but as yet have no satisfying Answer : So soon as we heard of their intention to chuse their Officers , we sent a Note to him to this effect , That whereas we heard it was their resolution so to do such a day ; that we desired him , if that so he could with conveniency to forbear and suspend the doing thereof for a time , in regard that we desired that there might first be a conference in the place by some Godly Ministers , that if it might be , the true way might be more cleerly found out , that those that are deceived or misled , might be undeceived , so as we might assent to them or they to us , so far as truth might appear so ; his Answer was first before any thing was done that they might have satisfaction given for what wrongs they had sustained . And 2dly , he would allow us to propound some questions , provided they might do the like against our way ; so seeing no better answer could be had , and that they resolved still to go on still in their businesse : It was thought fit by the Inhabitants of the place for that day to lock the Chappel door , to testifie their not approving their way , and so it was done ; the which doth much incense them : and the last Sabboth they had the liberty of the Chappel , wherein they began their Election by the Deacons . And in the forenoon such words as these was expressed in his Sermon , as it was given in to me by an honest understanding man that was present , in an Use of exhortation , to those that are joyned together in Societies in a visible Church , viz. You must de●end one another , as Abraham did Lo● , when he armed those that was born in his house and brought up with him to defend him ; and as Moses did the Hebrew against the Egyptian ; and as those who defended Paul when he was in Prison , against those that had taken an Oath , &c. And denounced the punishment threatned Zac. 14. 18 , 19. against those who will not joyn into the visible Churches , saying , It is a Gospel Text ; see , the which me thinks are strong applications , and may prove of dangerous consequence . I cannot yet send you , nor Mr. Holinworth the Questions that are to be discussed , nor certainly the day when , or whether or no ; but Mr. — is to be with us next Sabbath , and then if any thing can be pitched , you shall hear by the first : I pray you remember my respects to Mr. — and desire him to take so much pains if that we do send directions , to come ; and also I pray write me in two words by the first what was the issue of your conference at Bi●tch , and what you hear from above as-concerning that way either pro or con . I have sent you inclosed a copy of the Articles of their Covenant according to promise ; thus with my kindest respects remembred to your self and to Mr. Holinworth , I take leave and rest , Sir , Your affectionate friend being much obliged , Feb. 9. 1645. Some passages Extracted out of the Original Letter written from a man of worth in the Army , to a person of worth here in London ; which Letter was writ presently after the taking of Oxford . BEcause a man is a Presbyterian , he shall be turned out of his command ; and to compasse it , they have sent as far as Pendennis for an Accuser , to London for another , and Bristow for a third , and all they can say against our Adjutant General Gray , ( who is an honest godly Sco●shman ) is , that three quarters of a year since he was met ( as they think ) drunk because as they remmember , he faultred in his speech , and all because he is Major Generals Officer : Mr. Peters said , That was not all , he had made a Faction in the Army by seducing many to the Presbyterian party ; so it seems its counted a Faction with them to hold what the Parliament allowes . A moneth since they have laboured all they can to get hands for — to be Governour of Oxford ; and he being here on set purpose , the Petitioners are instructed to repair to the Generals at such a set time , and — the Tragical cornical actor , out of the tyring room of his own contriving , comes and tels the General what a providence t is , that God hath stirred up those good men to such good intentions in such a juncture of time , when it happened that — was there , whereas he and they were sent for . Sermons are daily preached to this effect , That God will rather honour himself with a few , then with many ; witnesse this Army , which they hope will be an instrument to subdue all that oppose them , whether under the most specious show of righteousnesse , and profession of an old ragged religion . A Coppy of some Letters , and some Extracts of Letters written out of the North concerning our Brethren of Scotland and their Armies ; which I have thought fit to print , because of Letters , and many Libels that have been printed against them . Some Passages taken out of a Letter ( the Original whereof I have by me ) written by one of the Committee in York to a friend of his in London . THe lamentable complaints spread abroad concerning the Scotish Taxing the Country so much , are occasioned from want of money ; for they have no meanes from any part of England to subsist , but by Assessing that corner of England where they now quarter : If consideration be had by the Parliament that they are neglected in wanting what was promised , it will cleer them in that matter : As for their misdemeanors , they go not unpunished with them ; for there was the other day at Richmond one suffered vivi comburium , for committing uncleannesse against nature ; a week since they have disbanded Vandrusks regiment , which were men of the worst carriages in all the Armies : As for the businesse at Tickhill which so troubled all men , after full examination of the abuses , it is found that the English , Irish , and Dutch were the authors of the outrages , ( no Scot was guilty thereof ) and two of them have been shot to death therefore . My couzen — was last week at the Court , and is much satisfied concerning the behaviour of our Brethren both toward King and Parliament : He told me it was wise , fair , and honest . June 12. 1646. An Extract of a Letter written from a Citizen in York to a Common Councell man here in London . I Am sorry that when we expected an end , it s feared a worse contention begins : we hear by some Letters this week from London , one came from Saltmarsh Minister , that a Petition from the Brethren is since put up to both Houses with 20000. hands , for which they had thanks returned , though the Common Councell of the City were high in their expressions , that if the Petition were delivered , they should be accounted Incendiaries or such like . Colonel N. writes also of this Petition . About 10. or 14. daies since one Butterfield a malignant , that did live at Middleham , and other four , writ to the General of the Scots , That if he would send a Regiment to quarter there , he would ensure them to enjoy Midhelam Castle ; they sent a Regiment thither , and the Colonel sent the Letters with the mens hands to the Captain of the Castle , and bid him take care of it , and proceed against Butterfield and the other four as he saw cause : The like was promised of Boulton Castle , but their treachery both revealed by the Scots themselves . Some passages taken out of a letter written from a godly Christian who was sent from London into Scotland about some speciall businesse . Mr. F. I Pray remember me to Mr. Bolton , and let him know , that in Scotland there is a precious people , a learned and godly Clergy , who are resolved in their low condition not to rest upon strength of Armies , nor confederacies with Nations for deliverance from their Armies without Reformation , but in a lively Faith in God , and performance of the Covenant . There is a Sermon every morning before the Parliament in the Parliament House , where the power of God is so eminently seem , that I am not able to expresse it . St. Andrewes Decemb. 20. 1645. A Letter from a godly Minister out of the North , concerning the Scots . My Dear friend , YOurs was not a little welcome to me , nor am I put to it to send you a requitall : The Newes here is so good , that I can hardly hold my pen for joy ; the Kings coming to the Scotish Army in all probability will prove one of our greatest mercies since these Wars began . And never did I hear of any Christians carrying themselves so boldly and faithfully in reprooving their Prince , so humbly before their God , so innocently towards their brethren , so desirously of a settled and wel-grounded Peace , as the Scots now do ; they labour with much earnestnesse the Kings conversion ; tell him plainly of his blood-guiltinesse ; have sent for out of Scotland the ablest Ministers to converse with him ; have banisht all Malignants six miles from his Person by Proclamation ; refused to entertain him with any token of joy ; told him he was a great sinner before God , and that he must give satisfaction to both Kingdoms . The malignants droop who were gathering towards him out of both Kingdomes : The French Agent who was active in making a Breach , is much discountenanced : The Nobles and Ministers professe their earnest longing after a happy Union , the setling the government of Christ in his Church , which being done , they will presently return in peace . The Independents themselves stand amazed at their wisdom , resolution , and fidelity ; Zeal doth accompany all their actions with humility . The malignant party which was much feared , is born down ; the mouths that were so wide both of Independents and malignants are sowen up , they have not a word to say : And see how the Lord blesses them ; all their enemies in Scotland are routed and brought to nothing . The King refuses to proclaime Montrosse and his adherents Rebels ; But the King of kings hath taken the quarrell into his own hand and utterly dispersed them ; I have not time to write the particulars , only to let you know I am Your assured friend R. Balsom . May 21. 1646. A Passage Extracted out of a Letter written from a godly Minister in Suffolk to a speciall Friend of his in London . HEre in the Country Malignants and Sectaries do generally murmure against the Scots , and would be glad to hear that the Armies should go against them , which I pray God prevent : I pray that this Nation do not so requite their labour of love and faithfulnesse unto us . May 19. 1646. A Copy of a Letter written to me from a friend out of Kent . Worthy Sir , SInce you are so pleased as both in your former and latter Letters to take notice of me in your kinde salutes , give me leave to take notice of your kindnesse , and re-salute you ; and both in my own name , and in the name of a friend of yours , to let you know we have not only run over , but read your Second part of Gangraena ; ●nd therein observe your willingnesse ( if it be possible ) to cure that evill by sucking out the corrupt blood , which is the method of the most careful Chyrurgions that are not so dainty as desirious of their Patients recovery . Nimius amor et admiratio person●rum , hath hitherto been a great inlet to all Heresies , whence they say Cyprian unice admirans Tertullianum , et antonomastice , often calling him his Master , sucked in that errour of his concerning the nullitie of Baptism administred by Hereticks ; yea & so did Nestorius through his admiration of Anastasius find fault with some expressions : So subject are most men , jurare in verba magistri ; which Plutarch also well observes in his Book de Auditione . And therefore we do freely professe we cannot dislike your practise in lessning their credit that are corrupters : Christ Jesus himself and all his Apostles heretofore endeavoured no lesse . Yea , and if Mr. Saltmarsh , why may not you as warrantably distinguish and say as he doth , concerning the old Non-conformists , That it is the old man of your adversaries you write against , and not their new , or themselves so far as they are men , so far as they are lovers of themselves and have only a form of godlinesse ? &c. Surely the man would be hardly put to it ●o underta●e to maintain his own , and yet take away your distinction , who will easily ( we doubt not ) answer not only him , but all others in whom we see but little wisdome , though perhaps some wit in inventing , as Apothecaries are wont for their Boxes , such specious titles for their Books as those whereof Jacobus Acontius complains in an Epistle of his to Johannes Wolphius , Nullam ad rem ingeniosi sunt , praeterquam ad speciosos titulos excogitandum ; quibus ex hominum manibus bonos libros extorqueant , ac suos eorum loco ob●●udant ; et tam stolidum est vulgus , ut quos expuere debuisset & suspiciat , nonnunquam & celebret , &c. Certainly Mr. Saltmarsh doth not only want a grain but a whole bushell of salt to season his unsavory mouth , opened not only against you , but the reverend , learned and judicious Mr. Gataker , together with the whole City , and all the Orthodox Ministery who might ask him more then ever he would be able to Answer , if they should but chatechize him concerning his Baptisme whether it be of the first , or second , or third , or fourth sort ; what think you ? is he not a Sebaptist , a Seeker ? We are sure if all be true I lately heard from a good friend of yours in these parts , that he the said Mr. Saltmarsh at a meeting of sundry Ministers of this County at Maidstone publikely professed in presence of them all his endeavour was to forget whatsoever formerly he had known , and seemed to wish they might be all of his mind , untill one Minister who was then and there present ●old him merrily , He was but a young man , and such as himself might happily wish with Themistocles that they had the art of Oblition ; but as for his own part he had too many gray hairs to desire to forget whatsoever he had learned , least he might not have time to learn so much again . The Committee of Kent intended by their late order the suppression of sundry Petitions of dangerous consequence that were handed up and down by our Sectaries , and towards the promoting whereof , the new Arch-Bishop of Canterbury Mr. Hugh Peters was ( as I am informed ) come down to Maidstone to visit this his Diocesse as he usually calls it . The most and best of our Ministers hereabouts ( for all I can learn ) are willing if they must die , to be buried as valiant Ensign bearers in their colours : There is a merry story told by a Baron of the Ports or Jurate of the town of Sandwich concerning Mr. Symonds the Independent who hath a living there ; One coming to him to be Catechized , he sent him to a Mechanick of that Town to Catechize him for him ; and when his Father in law Mr. H. another Jurate of the same Town expostulated the case with him and asked him the reason why he would do so ; his Answer ( as Mr. F. related it ) was , that one Goose might best teach another to eate . So merry are our most demure Independents : Among whom if there be a Stoick he is the most in shew , who hath lately ( as t is reported ) got an addition of meanes to the Benefice he yet holds , though it were formerly valued at above 100. pounds , and he himself be absolutely in show against all tithes , himself therfore will not , but lets his wife receive them : who whether he were not ab origine as well as Mr. Saltmarsh a comick , your self may best find out , or we will , if you please but to get us a writ . Ad melius inquirendam ; till then we may perhaps the rather think them to have been such , being so still , men that personate abundance of austerity , but are &c. June 22. 1646. Some passages taken out of two Letters written from a godly Minister out of the country to a reverend and godly Minister in London , who shewed me the Letters . I Have read Mr. Edwards Book thorough , and as a friend to deal freely , I professe Morney in my opinion never gave a greater blow to Papists then he hath given to the Sectaries ; and that which is yet more , soberly , sadly . As for the whole businesse of Webb of Milton taken before Colonel K. a Minister thereabouts hath promised to send M. Edwards an e●act narration . The working I see of some humours makes me hope the summer is past , and it is neer the autume of schism which had its spring before , &c. Only let us all be doing . Hugh Peters ( as I hear ) was lately at Maidstone , and had a mind to have promoted a Petition among our Sectaries . June 15. 1646. OUr common friend M. Edwards his last Book Gangraena of the Second Edition I received this last post , together with his Letter ; I pray let him understand as much ; and withall let him know I shall my self ( God willing ) thank him for both at better leisure and when I have read his Book thorough . Surely , he spake Prophetically that usually cald him in Cambridge young Luther . Faxit Deus , that the Sectaries may never be able to deal with him , as I doubt not many of them desire , whose words would willingly be turned into swords both against him and us all . An Extract of a letter written from a godly Minister to me . YOur Books I can assure you ( I find ) gain savour with all , but the common adversary who much increaseth and multiplyeth in these parts , where I heard last week at an open ordinary in presence of two of our Deputy Lieutenants , that since Kiffen and Lamb have been here re-baptizing , now there 's a third man come that contradicts them both , and re-baptizeth again , So that the poor people begin to stare and stand amazed to think what their deluded disciples will do in the end : Many of the Brownists fall to them ; however their doctor Turner keeps his ground , who dispited ( as some say ) with Kiffen and drowned him in the red sea , till at last they fell both from reasoning to down right railing . Poor people I pitty them , as also those others ( then and there spoken of also ) as one ( a very honest man otherwise ) that affirmed lately he thought the Apostles themselves never had more excellent gifts then a company of tradesmen , that now preach in private at Sandwich . Another ( it was said ) there was at A●ch neer Sandwich , who was said to say he was Christ , but being questioned , Answered no ; he was only Christs mouth and could feed such as were hungry . &c. though as some say , he can hardly feed himself : Surely I often now think on Matt. 24 ▪ Except in the Wildernesse , or in Chambers where is Christ , as they think : We should gladly see you here . I remember it was one of Don Perdroes devices about his first coming into this Country to bring down with him some Ministers out of your City to preach up the Parliament ; and why should not you to preach down Heresie , Schisme , Prophanesse , that the Country may know of what Religion the City is ? Certainly I am for such a change of courses as they call it . Propheta in patria , &c. Thus in haste I heartily rest Yours . July 6. 1646. A Copy of a Letter from a godly minister in Yorkshire to a friend of his in Lancashire . SIR , I Returned from York June 3d. Our meeting proved very successesse ; one of the prime York ministers being the main Remora to our desires , which were to write to the Assembly that we would joyn with them in the Presbyterian way according to Gods word to the utmost of our power , and to declare against the Erastian principles : when it was put to the vote , he desired to stay till he had further light : I know not whether he meant from the word , or from the State : There 's so much policy now in the world , that it hath eate out , if not much of conscience , yet very much of our care and zeale in promoting the work of Reformation according to our Covenant ; nay so far are we degenerated now ( as I am informed from a good ●and ) that to be forward and zealous in the Covenant , is the sole character of malignancy , and only badge of disaffection ; but I hope it will prevaile in despight of those who having formerly been takers , are now the only tramplers upon it . We have appointed another meeting at Pomfret on munday seven-night ; M. R. hath promised to meet the West riding ministers there . Some passages taken out of a Letter written from a learned and godly minister in Devonshire , to a friend in London . I Am resolved to disgest all abuses and contempts , and insultations of Sectaries , and frustration of hopes , so I may honour Christ . You will easily see by the inclosed what work is here . The Sectaries are grown so confident and insolent , that we may say of them as Rivet of Mountague , I● quo desideramus hominem , for they seem so farre from Religion , that they put off humanity . A Relation of some stories , and other remarkable passages concerning the Sectaries . THe 16. of June 1646. It was related to me by a Justice of Peace who was an eare and eye witnesse , and by a godly Minister in Northamptonshire , that there is one Kendall ( who in the Bishops times was a great creature of Sir John Lams , a bower at the Altar and for all the Innovations ) but since these times of Sectarisme , is turned a great Sectary , having renounced his Ministery . This man is now a Captaine in Whitlesey the Isle of Ely , that Iland of Errors and Sectaries , and a great Preacher , who comes sometimes to visit Northamptonshire , where formerly he was a Curate . Now the last Trinity Munday ( as the day is commonly called ) on a Faire day in that Country where a great resort of people was , Master Basely a godly Minister in those parts being spoken unto to preach , and being provided for it , this Kendall stept up into the Pulpit before him , and preached on that text , Rom. 8. For 〈◊〉 yee live after the flesh yee shall dye , on which words he preached against humane learning ( as being flesh ) and that the Universities were of the Devill . Secondly , that Adams righteousnesse in Innocencie was but flesh , and opposed to the spirit . Master Basely in the afternoone preaching , confuted his Doctrines , this Kendall would have stood up in the Church , and have opposed him , but was hindred by a Justice of Peace who was present . The 10th of June 1646. A godly Minister living in Lincolnshire told me and another City Minister , that he hath in his Parish many Manifestarians , Disciples and followers of one Thomas Moore spoken of in my First and Second Part of Gangraena , who upon his knowledge will keep no dayes of Fast , nor none of the dayes of Thanksgiving , because they will not give thanks to God for one man killing of another . He told me that some of the Manifestarians hold , and he hath heard some of them say , they had seen Christ , and seen the Devill to . This Minister related to us that there was a young maiden in his Parish about 16 yeares of age , one — who preaches to many young men and maidens , he named her name , and I well remember it , but forbeare naming her , because being so young , happily she may be reclaimed . This Thomas Moore comes often into this part of Lincolnshire , and divers times to this Towne where he preaches in houses ; but the last time he was there he preached not , and the reason ( some of the Sectaries give out ) was because this godly Minister is a persecutor , others say because he could not have the use of a great house in that Parish for his company to meet in . Many of these Manifestarians being at a time together , there was some occasion fell out to send for the Constable of the Town , who being come , charged some of the company in the Kings name to aid him , to which some of the Sectaries replied , that the King was out of office ; and therefore to require any thing in the Kings name was nothing . A Fellow of a Colledge in Cambridge ( whom I well know ) meeting me in London , told me he had been lately at the Leaguer before Oxford , and in the company of some of the Sectaries belonging to the Army , where he met with one M. Wainwright ( so he related his name , formerly a Minister , who said he came out of such a Country ( Suffolk as I remember ) and had a Living there of two hundred pounds per annum , this man boasted he had pull'd down the Bishops , and hoped to do as much for some others , meaning the Presbyters ; he vapoured he had left his Living as being Antichristian , and saith he , I have every day since asked God forgivenesse for holding it ; he told me also that in the Army he was told from good hands , of an Officer , a civill gallant man , because he would answer the Sectaries when they spake for their opinions , and against the Presbyterians , was upon other pretended suggestions either formally casheered , or glad to be gone . There are foure famous Preachers in Hartfordshire ( as I have it from sure hands ) one Heath the Collar-maker of Watton , one Rice the Tinker of Aston , one Feild the Bodies-maker of Hartford , one Crew the Taylor of Stevenage ; and besides these , there are some other Preachers who sometimes were Ministers in the Church of England , but now great Sectaries , as Master Feake at All-Saints Church in Hartford , one Master Harrison about Saint Albons side , and some others of whose strange preachings , practises , of the complaint to the Judges at the Assise of Master Feake , &c. I shall hereafter in a fourth part of Gangraena , or some other Tractate about the Sects , give the Reader an account . There is a Shoemaker in Coventry or thereabouts , a famous Preacher , who goes from Coventry and those parts up and down Glostershire , Warwickeshire , Wostershire , preaching and venting erroneous points of Antinomianisme , Anabaptisme , preaching against Tyths , Baptisme of children : A Minister of the City of London being in Glostershire heard him preach , and heard of his large Diocesse , and perambulations from place to place . August 16. 1646. Preached at Hackney one Master Downing , a Preacher of the Army , and a young Peters ( as he was called ) some who were eare-witnesses told me of his Sermon , and it was to this effect ; That the Country people say ( that is , he meant the Sectaries in the Army say ) that the Parliament would do them good , but he Lord Major , the Common-Councell and the Citizens of London would not permit them ; he feared God would bring the Plague upon them , and Risings among them ; and the cause of all was , the uncharitablenesse of London against the Saints ; and that the opposition now was not between worldly men , but between Saints and Saints . This Downing , alias Peter junior , spake in Hackney pulpit of the Common Councell of London at that time in way of 〈…〉 persion of them as if they were for the Cavaliers , that when they entred Oxford , the Cavaliers told them , T is your turn now , it may be ours hereafter , for we have the City of London and the Common-Councell for us . THere is one Master Clark in London whose wife being dead , and wanting a staid Maid-servent to look to his house and Children ; having some acquaintance with one Master Josse sometimes a minister of the Separation , but now an Anabaptist , a Seeker , and no man knowes what : he commended to him for that use one Mary Abram , aged between 40. and 50. a Separatist ; an acquaintance of his highly enrolling her ; whereupon Master Clark entertained her , and he having a Sonne between fifteen and sixteen years old falling very lick ; his calling and occasions necessitating him to be much from home ; this Mary Abram being to looke to him , takes her opportunitie in this weaknesse and want of understanding ( his disease being an Apoplexie ) to labour to make this Boy marry her , and for the effecting of that , works in a fl 〈…〉 ring fa 〈…〉 ing way with one who often came to Master Clarks house , to pro●●re a License for two friends of hers to marry ( concealing the persons ) who brought her word , they at the Office could grant no License to any which had not their friends consent , and one to be bound in a Bond to save them harmlesse : Now when she saw this way would not do , then she further moved the same man that if he knew if any man would marry them of any fashion she cared not . Whereupon this man ●old her he knew one Master Stampe a School-master in Shoelane whom he heard one say had done such a businesse : Upon that the man could not be quiet till he brought her to this Stampe , and after a time she told him she was the woman party , but concealed the man : At the last when her master Clark was gone from home , she enticed the Boy to go with her , and they went to Stamps Chamber who lay bed-rid , and he spake some words to them , which she pleads was a marrying of them ; and she gave this Stampe eleven shillings six pence for his paines . For the proofe of these things , besides master Clarks particular relation to me of these things more then once in private , as also his relating it to me in other companies , I have seen a Certificate under the hand of Doct. Meverell , subscribed Sep. 29. 1643. Ottuell Meverell testifying of master Clarks Sons disease in his brain for the space of sixe moneths , wherein he was divers times deprived of sense and motion , and sometimes vexed with Convulsions , ignorant of things done and said to him ; as also I have perused Certificates under other hands , as Mr. Stamps , one Samuell Perkins and others , too large to set down , besides the Petition of Master Clark drawn to be delivered to the House of Commons for relief of his Sonne in this case , and for justice against this Separatist who claims this youth for her husband : a Copy whereof is as followeth . To the Right Honourable the Knights and Burgesses in the Commons House of Parliament Assembled : The Humble Petition of Thomas Clark. Most Humbly Shewing : THat the Petitioner entertained one Mary Abram to be his house-keeper , and to be especially carefull of his Sonne being grievously visited with the sicknesse called the Apoplexie , and by the vehemency of the disease not sensible many times what he did : She the said Mary being between 40. and 50. years of age , and your Petitioners sonne being 16. years of age at most : The said Mary being gone from the Petitioners house , comes and claimeth the Petitioners sonne for her husband , and threatneth the Petitioner for keeping her husband from her , pretending she was married to him by a sick man who hath lain bed-riden a long time ; who denieth the marrying of them , that he had no Licence , nor any Authority to marry them , as by his Certificate may appear , but as he confesseth took eleaven shillings and six pence of her to make show of something , as if he married her to satisfie her humour ; the youth not knowing any thing thereof concerning het pretended marriage with him : For at that time and six weeks after she pretends this marriage ; your Petitioners son was ignorant of things done and said unto him , and was weak in his understanding and right judgement , and without his memory , and speechlesse as your Petitioner can prove . And whereas she produceth a Certificate to show as married in Saint Georges Church in Southwark , where she never was with him , neither is there any such marriage in the Church Register book to be found ; the Lad taketh it to heart he should be so abused by her , and that it may be a discontent to him for ever during his life . And the said Mary hath done so in another house where she was a servant by one P. H. an Apprentise about three months before this , and is not free from him to this day . but by a bribe of ten pounds she received of him . She the said Mary defending her practise in the streets to be lawfull , saying , It was commanded under the Law not to marry without consent of parents , but that was but a ceremony to them that liyed under the Law ; it is now lawfull , because we live under the Gospel . He humbly prayeth if it might stand with your favour to grant unto him your Warrant to bring before you the said Mary , that upon discovery of the Premises and lewd practise , the Petitioners Son as he hath bin by her publickly disgraced , he may be publickly discharged from her , and she abide such further Order as shall be thought meet . And the Petitioner and his Sonne as in duty bound , shall and will daily pray for your Honours long and happy preservation . This Mary Abraham before her coming to Master Clarks had intangled a young youth , an Apprentice here in London , and claimed a promise of marriage at his hand , which businesse was heard before Master Jesse the Seeker , an Independent Minister and some others , and it was concluded he should give her ten pounds , and so there should be an end between them ; which this youth gave her , and there was a writing of discharge between them , which ten pounds given by the boy M. Jesse received ; and faith , it was since given to the Parliament . Now though M. Jesse knew all this , yet he recommended this Mary to Master Clark to be his house-keeper who knew nothing of her prancks : when this old wench came to his house whilst the youth was well , she tempted him not , but when he was thus ill ( as above mentioned ) she tempted him , and in the time of some intermission of his sits before he was perfectly recovered , when the youth went with a staffe she carried him to that Stampe ; and when the boy was ill and weak , would come to bed to him : Now after Master Clark had put this Mary Abraham away , he found this paper of agreement between a young Apprentize and this Mary by meeer accident in his sonnes chamber , and with a great deale of paines and enquiry found out this Apprentice in London , from whom he understood the whole businesse , whereupon going to Master Jesse with this paper to taxe him , that he knowing such a businesse would commend such a one to him who was a widdower ; Master Jesse desiring to see the paper ( Master Clarke letting him see it ) kept it , and would never restore it againe ; but Master Jesse told him he must forgive her , and he speaking of complaining of her for doing such a wicked fact , for the ruine of his sonne ; Master Jesse wished him to take heed of prosecuting a Saint , and to consider how Jesus Christ at the day of judgement would take it at his hands , with such like words ; And this Master Clark tels me , having spoken to him and some other Sectaries of that company , why they suffered such a wickednesse , and kept her company , he told me I could not imagine the shifts and put offs they had among them to colour the wickednesse , the affirming and denying sometimes , saying she was not of their Church , but only recommended by Letters Testimoniall , sometimes affirming she had repented . There is one Master Denne , whom I have spoken of in my first Part of Gangraena , this man goes still up and down the Countries spreading his corrupt opinions and dipping ; concerning whom I have lately received this Information from a hand that could not mistake in the relation ; and I have the examinations taken before the Justices of Peace who examined Denne and others about him , which I here give the Reader . The Examination of Anne Jarrat of Spalding Spinster , June 22. 1646. before Master Thomas Irbie , and Master John Harrington Commissioners of the Peace . THis Examinate saith , on Wednesday last in the night about 11. or 12. of the clock Anne Stennet , and Anne Smith , the servants of John Makernesse , did call out this Examinate to go with them to the little Croft , with whom this Examinate did go ; and coming thither , Master Denne and John Makernesse , and a stranger or two followed after . And being come to the River side , Master Denne went into the water , and there did baptise Anne Stennet , Anne Smith , Godfery Roote , and John Sowter in this Examinats presence . Anne Jarrat W her mark . June 21. 1646. Lincolne , Holland . Henry Denne of Caxton in the County of Cambridge examined before John Harrington and Thomas Irby Esquires , two of his Majesties Justices of the Peace . THis Examinate saith , that he liveth at Caxton aforesaid , but doth exercise at Elsly within a mile of his own house , and saith that he took Orders about 16. years since from the Bishop of Saint Davids . And that on Munday last he came to Spalding , being invited thither by John Makernesse to come to his house . And that he hath exercised his gifts about four times in severall places in Spalding , viz. at the house of John Makernesse , and Mr. E●stons . As for baptising of any he doth not confesse . John Harrington . Master Harrington sent for Denn by a Constable on the Lords day , with whom he coming , Master Harrington confined him to the Provost Marshal ( who had been an Officer of the Committee ) for that day being the Lords day that he should not make a mutiny , nor stir in the Town that day by people resorting to him . This Maiden Anne Jarrat confesse● that she being by , heard Master Denn or some of the company with him , lay upon them at their Baptisme , and require a promise of those that were dipped to hear none but of their own way . This Denn in his travels about the country had two men attended him , who live ( as they said ) with him ; they were clad like Farmem , and they took upon them to question some in the Town of Spalding to give an account of their Faith ; as one Goodman Goffery : Master Harrington upon questioning with Master Denn spak of committing him to Lincoln , to which he replyed He cared not ; but this he took ill , to be molested in his way , and told the Justice he was bound to the Committee of Examinations upon a Bond of two hundred pounds to appear before them at any time at four and twenty hours warning ; and he made use of that as an argument against his troubling of him ; to whom Master Harrington replyed , How can you do that , appear before the Committee a● so short a warning , when as you are now almost a hundred miles from London ? This Master Harrington a Justice of Peace and a religious man told me he had had several Anabaptists before him upon several occasions , and they have alwayes refused to take an oath , saying they would not swear . There is one Beedle of Glocestar sometimes School-master there , who denies the Holy Ghost to be God ; had a Manuscript by him of his own making pleading against the Third Person of the Trinity ; which being known , some in Authority in that Town questioned him , and getting this manuscript , have sent up either the Originall or a true Coppy to some in Authority and place here ; but the last newes I heard of him , he hath not been questioned as yet by those above : Bishop Vsher that learned and godly Divine coming this summer through Gloster , spake with him , and used him with all fairnesse and piety as well as strength of Arguments to convince him of his dangerous Errour . A Minister of the City of Glocester told me the Bishop laboured to convince him , telling him that either he was in a damnable Errour , or else the whole Church of Christ , who had in all ages worshiped the Holy Ghost had been guilty of Idolatry ; but the man was no whit moved either by the learning , gravity , piety , or zeal of the good Bishop , but continued obstinate . There is one Andrew Debman an Anabaptist , and a Preacher among them , a Cooper by trade , a sorry fellow , that can neither write nor read , and yet is a great Preacher among the Sectaries : This blind Bayard would fain Preach in the Parish Church of Algate ; saying , if they would let him Preach there , his Sermon would be worth the Parish five pounds by a collection for their poor from his followers ; and he hath further said , if they doubt of his ability to Preach , let them give him a text at the Church door when he is going in to Preach , and he would Preach of that , whereby they should see what he could do ; and one speaking to him concerning a City Colonell if he would be a member of their Church he would make a good member among them ; this Debman replyed , that for his part he beleeved if this forenamed Colonell would give all his Lands and Estate , he could not be received into their Church . There was a great Sectary who had his wife lay a dying ( and she did die of that sicknesse ) to whom some wel-affected neighbour spake , that he should in this dangerous case pray for his wife ; he answered , what good would prayer do her , or you either ? you think prayer will do much good . I had this relation from them to whom he spake it . An Alderman of this City , and a moderate man ( so acknowledged by the Independents ) not long since received a Letter from Newcastle concerning our Brethren of Scotland ; which Letter he shewed to some Common Councell men and other Citizens , and the Letter was written from an Independent in Newcastle to this Alderman , wherin he confesses that the Scots have dealt very faithfully with the King , and told him That if he would not Sign the Propositions , he must expect no help from them , and that they would keep to their Covenant and not desert the Parliament of England , with words to that effect . I saw the Originall Letter ( and I read it twice over ) written from a Townsman of Newcastle ( a man of some place there ) to an Honorable member of the House of Commons , wherein he complains that in Newcastle all was like to runne to ruine for want of Government , and from the faction of the Independents there , that their good Ministers were so abused and discouraged by them that they would not stay , but had left them , or were going away as Master Prideaux and Doctor Jenison ; some Independent Preachers sent thither will neither Baptize Children , nor administer the Lords Supper ; but say they came not thither to do such drudgery ( this was twice repeated in the Letter ) Doctor Jenison was sent for thither again but for a stale ; and he acquaints this Parliament man that the Independents have a designe one way or other either by threatning some men to give their voices , or by pretending some reasons to try to get an Ordinance to bring in a man for Major this year , who is a Sectary ; but he desires this Honourable Member of the House of Commons to stand their Friend in the House ; and hopes that seeing we have fought for Liberty , that town shal have their liberty in free choice of a Burgesse for Parliament , and of a Major the chief Officer of their Town : This Gentleman also complaines in his Letter , that without so much as ever acquainting the free Burgesses , or once calling a Common-Councell , an Ordinance was procured to appoint an Independent Deputy Major , which if we should have done so ( as the Independent party did ) what out-cries would there have been of breach of Liberty ? Upon this Letter being communicated to me , I asked a worthy Member of the House of Commons , why the Scots would suffer in Newcastle the Independents to domineer so , and abuse the godly Orthodox Ministers , and not teach them better manners ; he answered , the Scots because of giving offence were tender of medling in any thing with the Civil Government , but rather suffered these things so much against their minds that they might give no occasion of complaint . There is one Master Erb●ry spoken of in my first part of Gangraena , who about June or the beginning of July last , as he was going to Wales , lay at Marlbrough one night ; and being in the Town he came to a house where commonly once a week many good people of that Town meet together to confer and discourse of good things ; and there Master Erbury spake to them ( many being there present ) to this purpose , that he knew not what they might expect , but he came neither to pray nor to preach , but to learn of Christ and of his Saints , and making a discourse to them , he declared his opinions , venting himself against Christ being God , affirming he was only man , pleading for universall Redemption , speaking against Baptism & all ministry , using words to this effect , that he knew not how they stood affected , or how it was with them ; but with many Christians it was thus with them , that they knew not what to do without a man in black cloathes , or a black man among them ; but that was for the time when Christians were Babes and Children , but now they were all taught of God , and needed not that any one should teach them : When he had done speaking , some of the company stood up and opposed him as not being satisfied in what he had said , telling him it was not only Errour , but Blasphemy to deny Christ to be God , and brought some Scriptures to prove it , as in 1 John 5. 7. speaking of the Father , Word , and Holy Ghost , the Apostle saith , These Three are One ; unto which Master Erbury replyed , It was not so in the Originall ; but some of the people re-joyned they knew not the Originall , but they beleeved it was so ; and however they were assured that he was the Sonne of God : Master Erbury objected again , those words were not in the Greek but put in by some who were against the Arrians ; and so the meeting broke up , the people who met , being much offended at him . For confutaion of this Heresie , and to confirm the people in the Doctrine of the true Faith that Christ is God , let them remember 1. these Scriptures , the first chap. of the Gospel of John , In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God , and indeed every word proves him to be God , In the beginning was the Word , and so in the rest : upon which words Beza , Calvin , Rollock do fully show Christ to be God Essentially and Eternally . Calvinus in John 1. 1. v. Ne quis de divina Christi Essentia scrupulus maneat , clare assetit esse Deum , Rolock in John 1. 1. v. quare sensus hujus propositionis mihi videtur esse● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cum esset in principio , essetque apud Deum , erat quoque ipse Deus . Beza in principio , id est a principio , id est tum , quam omnes re● creatae existere inciperent . Est autem haec sententia , Sermonem non capisse existere quum Deus initium faceret creandi quicquid est conditum , Nam , inquit Johannes , jam tu● existebat Sermo ille quum res creatae con●i coeperunt , ac proinde ante omnium illarum rerum principium jam erat . Est proprietas ipsius verbi ●●va● observanda quod quidemuni Deo proprie convenit , Vide plur . Tit. 2. 13. Christ is called the great God and our saviour , not a lesser God then God the Father . The first of the Heb. from the second to the ninth verse wherein besides that the Sonne is said to be God who hath a throne for ever and ever , he is called the brightnesse of the Fathers glory and expresse image of his Person , which cannot be affirmed of a creature . 1 John 5. 20. John speaking of Jesus Christ , saith , This is the true God , not in name , or qualities only , like to God as Magistrates and Angels are called gods , but the true God as spoken by the Holy Ghost foreseeing these evasions : This relative bic must be referred to Christ , to the person last spoken of which was Christ ; so Calvin , Relativam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad proxim 〈…〉 personam restringi solet ; and Beza saith , postulat pronominis istius propria significatio ut ad Christum hee referatur . Deinde peculiare ubique est Johanni per vitam aeternam Christum significare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Continet igitur hic locus expressum divinitatis Christi testimonium . Tamet●● hunc locum eludere Arriani conati sunt , & illis bodie subscribunt quidam , bic tamen insigne hobemus . Divinitatis Christi Elogium . Calvinus in locum . 2. Divine worship belongs to God , and to God only , as the Scriptures show in many places , Maath . 4. 10. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve : And therefore man may not worship the greatest Angels . Revela . 19. 10. Rev. 22. 8 , 9. and that upon this reason given in those places , they must worship God : But now the most excellent glorious creatures are commanded to worship Christ , the highest Angels , as well as men , Heb. 1. 6. Let all the Angels of God worship him ; and men are commanded in the highest manner and way to worship the Sonne as well as the Father : Besides we are Baptized in the name of the Sonne , as well as of the Father , Matt. 28. 19. As for that place in 1 John 5. These Three are One , supposing it be not found in the ancientest Greek Copies , yet there are so many other places as that in 1 John 5. 20. &c. of which there can be no such question , which prove Christ to be God. But Secondly for this place . 1 John 5. 7. these learned Commentators write as followes : Calvin , viz. That though this whole verse was omitted by some , yet Hierome thinks it was done out of malice , and that he did willingly embrace this as the Originall , because he found it in the best Copies , and those most approved . Beza saith it seems to him that this verse should be retained , and though the Syriack nor old Latine Interpreter doth not read it , neither some other Authors , Hilarie , Augustine , &c. Yet Hierome reads it , and t is in some of the most ancient Books of of Stephen : Sed legit Hieronymus , legit Erasmus in Britanico codice , & ex●at in Complutensi editione , & in nonnullis Stephani nostri veteribus libris . A Passage sent in a letter dated June 16. 1646. from a worthy Minister in the West to a Citizen in London to communicate it to me . Sir , YOu may further acquaint Master Edwards with this Passage : I lately met with a worthy Knight , who being mer●ily disposed would needs try an experiment upon a Papist how that generation was affected towards Independents ; therefore riding by a Gentlewomans house , and a great Papist , not farre from Reading , he was resolved to go in and counterfeit himself an Independent ; this Gentlewoman conceiving him to be such , entertained him with as great friendly respects as she could have done any Jesuit in the world ; she professed she loved the Independents with all her heart ; and if any men in the world did them right , it would be the Independents ; this the foresaid Gentleman related to me himself . July 25. A godly Minister told me that an Anabaptist and Antinomian pleaded against asking forgivenesse of sinnes ; saying , it was no more lawfull to pray for the pardon of sinnes then to pray for our election : It was answered , there was an expresse command for one , none for the other ; it was replyed , where in the Scripture ? answer was made , in the Lords Prayer ; the Anabaptist answered , the Lords Prayer was only for that time . A Lieutenant Colonel a man both valiant and godly , told me he had heard a Captain who was a Sectary , preach that these Wars should not end till all the wicked in the Land on both sides were destroyed ; and saith he , if you observe it , t is commonly they that are slaine still , it may be now and then one of the godly . About the beginning of June last , a Parliament man had a letter from a godly Minister in Lynn , acquainting him with the increase of Errors there , and that there was a woman Preacher there who ●ents many Heresies ; as that the Scriptures were not the word of God , that the drowning of the old World and story of Noah were not true , there were no such things , with other things of that nature . July the eighth , a godly Minister lately of this City , told me in the presence and hearing of other Ministers as a certain truth , this story , That at a house in Red-crosse street or thereabouts , there met some Sectaries , where some forty persons being present , one of then exercised his gifts , and in his exercise preached these Doctrines . 1. That Jesus Christ was not God , not the Son of God. 2. That the Scriptures were not the word of God , and brought many arguments to prove it . 3. That the souls of men dye with their bodies . Now as he was delivering these points , there was a woman present that wept bitterly , speaking words to this effect , If this Doctrine be true , what shall I do ? I have many yeers beleeved in Jesus Christ , and hoped to be saved , but now what will become of me ? Which words this blasphemous Sectary taking notice of , said , good woman you need not be troubled ; for though Christ be not God , neither any certainty of the Scripture being the word of God , yet if you live honestly and modestly , you shall do well enough ; besides , this fellow said , there are two Witnesses or Prophets coming shortly that will bring Scriptures with them , and then you and I shall know what to do and to beleeve . There is an Independent who came some yeers ago out of New-England , and is made a Captaine here , who left a wife and many children there , and after he was come over , never sends , nor writes to his wife , nor takes no care for the●r subsistence , but as it seems by Letters written to New-England ▪ and from thence , this Captaine hath been sometimes neer the marrying others here in England , in so much as a Letter was written to him b●one ( whom I suppose an Elder ) at the desire of the Church to deale with him about it , which Letter I have read , as also a Letter from his wise , wherein she wonders she could not hear from him , and prayes him to consider in what state he left her and those children , and how unable both she and they are for any inployment ; and for to show the truth of this Relation , I shall give the Reader a true copie of the Letter sent him out of New-England , which is as followes . Captaine — and beloved Brother , HAving an opportunity I embraced it to write unto you , being also desired by the Church , we earnestly desi●ing your good in the Lord. I wonder that you would never sens a word , neither to my self , nor any friend of yours ; we knew not whether to write unto you , untill this opportunity . Your wife is yet a live , and never received word , nor penny from you ; And which is most sadde , we are informed by two Letters , that you have been sometimes ready to marry others ; which ( you know ) is very evill , and condemned by the Law of England , as well as by the Law of God : we hope you will take it to heart , together with your forgetfulnesse of your wife and children . It showes that your heart is declined from God , and we hold it our duty to recover you if we can , by the blessing of God upon the meanes we shall use . Good Sir , take some time to consider of your wayes , the time will come when you must give account for them to the great Judge of all . We shall expect to hear an answer from you concerning this businesse ; for God calls us to purge his Church from such evils as these are . Thus with my love unto you , and prayers to the Lord to recover you , and humble you , I rest Your loving friend Richard Blinman . Glocester in New-England December 4. 1645. THere is one Sir Worts , who being newly Bachelor of Arts came down into Norfolke , and would have had such a place in Norfolke , which some of the godly Ministers thought him not fit to take the Cure of upon him , being so young , & having so lately commenced Bachelor ; whereupon this young youth being angry at the Ministers , for missing the place ▪ the next newes the godly Ministers heard , was , that he was turned Independent , had gathered a Church , and people running eight or ten miles after him , with a great deale of violence crying him up ; and amongst other of his converts that turned Independents and followed this Worts , a godly Minister of that Country told me , one of his Parish who would lie often in blind Alehouses and be often drunk ( being not admitted by him to the Lords Supper , but being wished by this Minister to repent and give some testimonies of it before he came ) upon non-admittance turned Independent presently and followed this Worts ; but a while after , this man was struck sick on a Munday , dying on the Friday or Saturday after , and would not admit his Minister to come at him , but sent for Worts , and in his sicknesse lay all the while speaking and extolling the Church-way to all who came to see him , but not doing any thing which concerned a man in that case , who had been guilty of so great sinnes , and so died . A godly Minister told me , that he knew an old man , an Anabaptist that lived at Ashford in Kent , or thereabouts , who will bee drunken , and when he is drunk , then he will weep much , and bewaile the blindnesse of the Church of England . About May last I was told it by two or three good witnesses , that a Souldier belonging to the Army , and one who had been a Dipper , came not long before that to a Town in Bedfordshire called Ravensdowne , and got up into the ●●lpit against the will of the Minister , preaching for Universall Grace , against Poedobaptisme , against Tyths ; whereupon for preaching whether the Minister would or no , one of the Town fetcht a Warrant for him against he came down from the Pulpit to bring him before a Knight a Justice of Peace of that County , and when he came before him he gave him uncivill words , and carried himself disrespectively , telling him , that if he committed him , he should be fetcht forth with honour , and to the Justices dishonour ; but the Justice binding him over to the Sessions , and being brought thither , desiring some exemplary justice against him for contempt of his authority , a Letter came from some Commander ( I am not sure who ) for to send his Souldier to him , and so as the story was told me , the Justices released him and let him go . An honest godly man of good understanding told me lately , that one being spoken unto about sending the Army into Ireland , he said there should not go six parings of the nails of Sir Thomas's Army into Ireland though it were lost ten times over ; better that lost then England , hazarded , by sending away the Army . At Hampden in Buckinghamshire , there is one Potter a Smith who hath been a souldier and is come out of the Armies , that is a preacher there , and drawes away many people ; and though the Minister of the place did yeeld much to give him and others content , in being willing to joyn with him and others to keep away scandal●us persons , promising to watch over one another , giving ●ree leave to this Potter and others to except and object any thing against him , or others admitted to the Lords Supper ; yet nothing would give them content ; but this Potter , and many others whom he hath drawn away , meet in Separated meetings on the Lords day , will pay no Tithes . A godly Minister told me . August 18. that some souldiers belonging to Colonell Iretons Regiment quartering but two nights in his Parish , infected many , he had rather have given a great deal of mony then they should have come thither : He saith they be generally Arminians ; and sate with their hats on in Prayer , Singing of Psalmes : One of these souldiers told a godly woman in his Parish , that if she did not beleeve Christ died for all , she should be damned . There is one John Durance spoken of in the Second part of Gangrana , who was apprentise to a Washball-maker at the Three Herrings in Lumbard-street , who after preaching some years without being ordained Minister , doth now presume without any ordination to Baptize and administer the Lords Supper against which high presumption God hath lately witnessed by making one in this kind a fearfull example in York-shire ; which story most true and certain with the particulars of it , I intend to give the reader in a Tractate of a Catalogue of the judgements of God upon the Se-Sectaries within these four last years . Now this Master Durance besides preaching at Canterbury in one of the Churches , hath gathered a Church , to which in one of the Prebends houses ( wherein he dwels ) he preaches and administers the Lords Supper in the evening : this man at Sandwich prayed strangly concerning the King as the Reader may remember ; and being spoken to about it , he was so farre from repenting , that he added this , That he hoped ere long to see the King fettered in Newgate ; which I hearing , could hardly beleeve a man should speak so wickedly of the King , and therefore write down i 〈…〉 o Kent to enquire of the truth of it , of them to whom it was spoken : and I had this Answer returned me in a Letter , that Master G. a Jurate of Sandwich had averred no lesse then what it should seem , you have heard already concerning him : Besides , this Durance preaching presently after the newes of the surrender of Oxford , said , That for all that , there would be no Peace , till there were a generall Liberty of Conscience in England . In Kent , not f●rre from Greenwich , there is a feirce Independent , one Master Larkin , a man of wh 〈…〉 I have heard many things both of his preaching aod conversation , concerning whom there are many Letters come from New England , attested with many hands , writing of his ill behaviour , and the scandals that are upon him there ; besides many passages related of his preaching here against the Assembly , Ministery , and of his carriage in severall particulars ; but I shall speake no further of him at this time . There is one Master Powell at Dartmouth in Kent , a great Sectary ; he sometimes preached in Crooked-lane , where he vented many erroneous things , and ●ow does a great deal of hurt in those parts of Kent : There was a neighbour Minister , a godly man that being behind in paying some of his Taxes ( being deeply taxed ) one imployed to gather up monies unpaid , coming to him for monies not paid , he demanded 〈◊〉 shillings for his charges in coming , and used these words , You are one that oppose Master Powell , and if the Minister would not pay whatever he demanded , would straine his Cowes . There is one Brabson in Middlesex about Han 〈…〉 ll , a great Sectarie and Preacher , he preaches much against Tithes , and broaches many Errours , some of the Middle 〈◊〉 Ministers have told me of such a man , and I am promised a full account of the man. There is one Cornwell in Kent an Anabapeist , who hath put forth divers Pamphlets , one against Baptizing of Children ; others lately printed , Dedicated to particular members of the House of Commons : The first pamp 〈…〉 called , The vindication of the royall Commission of King Jesus , set forth about three years ago , was given to divers Members at the doore of the House of Commons : In which Book this Cornwell brands all the Reformed Churches and the whole Christian world at this day which Baptize their children with the odious name of an Anti-christian Faction . There is one Master Blackwood about the Wild of Kent an Anabaptist , who hath write about a yeare and a halse ago , a Book called The storming of Antichrist ; the subject matter being against Poedobaptisme , and for Liberty of Conscience so called , wherein as I remember he is for a universall Toleration except it be in Blasphemy , and denying the Scriptures to be the word of God : but about a year ago a godly Minister told me he speaking with him about that book and about his limitations , and whether he was of that judgement still , he told him , he had received thanks for that book from a great Commander in the army for so far as he had gone right , but wished him to re-collect his thoughts whether be was not out in those limitation● & bounds , so that ( said M. Blackwood ) I am somewhat unsatisfied in my former limitations , doubting whether there ought not to be a universall Toleration without any of those bounds ; and in a book since printed , he is against any restraint in the c 〈…〉 of Blasphemy , and denying the Scriptures retracting his ●ormer distinctions . There is one Master Niob●las Davison of New-England , who came over from New-England with accounts amounting to a good s 〈…〉 e , which he was to give here in London ; and landing in the West at that time when all the West was in the Enemies power , for feare of loosing his accounts and being taken , durst not venture to come up to London , but lived in Barstable unknown almost three quarters of a year , which being then one of the Kings Garrisons he was glad to conceale himselfe , they not knowing whence be came nor what he was : now being sometimes in the company of the Cavaliers and of some of their Schollars , he heard them often speaking among themselves of the Independents , and of the differences among us , and they spake to one another ( not thinking he took notice ) that there were from severall Colledges beyond the Seas Jesuites come over ( they named their names , and the places from whence they came ) to act the pitts of Independents and Sectaries to blow up the difference and contention : Now when the West was open , and this man got fa●● to London , he told this to divers , to a godly Citizen among ●●hers , who acquainted me with it ; and this Master Davison being spoken to by some Independents ( as being a New-England man ) to go to Guildhall upon some businesse when some Parliament men came downe ( as I take it , upon one of the Cities Petitions about Church Government ) for say the Independents , the Presbyterians will get the upper hand , he refused to go , and answered them who spake to him in words to this effect , You little know what you do , and whose work you further in opposing the Presbyterians : for saith he ▪ the Independents in Old-England are nothing like to them of New-England no more then black to white : you Independents here do that which we abhorre there ; I met ●ith this man , with one who came from New-England , and he held himself there an Apostle , for which he was whipped , and here h● is a great preacher , and in great account , and this he told to divers . This man is accounted a godly man in New-England and went back thither this June . For a further proof and confirmation of this , here is a person of good account , one of the Committee of Account , that speaks confidently of informations he hath received of the coming over of Jesuits on purpose to mixe themselves with Independents and the Sectaries to increase that Faction for th●ir own ends : I have been told also with much confidence that a Gentleman going through Col●man-street , and seeing great store of People coming out of an Alley , asked what the matter was ; some told him they were Sectaries come now from their Conve●●ticles , whereupon standing still to take notice what manner of People they were , he sawe come out among them fome whom he had known to be Jesuits and Priests . There is a young man a Schollar and a preacher , who lived some years in Holland , and that among some of our English Sectaries , sometimes of the Church of Ar●b●im , who tells me they all generally and their Families were Anabaptists , and that they made much of that scurrilous wicked book , The Arraigment of Persecution : These Sectaries not many months before they came over into England , namely about the Spring last , gave thanks at one of their Church meetings for a Toleration of the Sects ( which as they heard ) had passed th● House of Commons ; which the Beformed Ministers of that place hearing of , were much troubled at it , yet hoping it was not so , that God would not leave the Parliament to be guilty of so great an evill after he had done so much for them : These Sectaries would speak much against the Covenant , and this Preacher hath heard some of them say they would be hanged before they would take it , and had rather see one another hanged then to take that abominable Covenant . One of the compapany used to preach constantly in the forenoon , and then in the afternoon two or three others by turns , as Master C. Master A. and when these were from home and there was no preaching , then their Families staid at home , and would not heare the English Reformed Ministers , but some of them said , If those Ministers would promise never to preach for Baptisme of Children , nor against their way , they would hear them : Upon the newes coming over of the burning of Master Archers booke , that made God the author of sinne , they justified all in that book , saying , what was in it , was his to a word ; and one of them said he could shew the Copy ; and they spake much against Assembly , Parliament , and that he had as high a place in heaven as any of them would have ; and they would make what he had written good . This young man once speaking against the opinion , they were very angry at him , saying , what had he to do ▪ & they would speak against our Ministers with much indignation and scorn , as if none of them had any worth . A worthy Member of the House of Commons told me the last day of August , that one Captaine B. told him we had beene fed by our Ministers tha● mens souls when they die went to heaven ; but now we see a New Light in that they do not go to heaven : to whom this Parliament man replyed , That the souls of the faithfull do ; for Christ told the thief , Luke 24. To day shalt thou be with me in Paradise : unto whom this Captain replyed , That to day was to be referred to Christs saying so , and not to the time when he should be in Paradise , so that the meaning was , Christ said unto the thief those words to day , but not that to day he should be in paradise with him , and so the words were to be read , Verily I say unto thee to day , and there the point ; and then after to be read , thou shalt be with me in Paradise ; which though it should not be to the end of the world , would be no impeachment of the truth of Christs speech : whereupon this Parliament man answered to this purpose , this were to make Christ eqivocate and deceive like as your faction does . Animadversions upon this Exposition . THis Sectary is not the first that hath wrested this place thus , but some before him have separated to day from the words that follow , and joyned it with the words going before , so that the distinction should be , Amen I say unto thee to day , and then should follow thou shalt be with me in paradise ; upon which let the reader look Theophylact who handle this place largely and Jansenius Harmony on the Gospell , Cap. 143. besides in the Greek Copies to day is joyned with the words thou shalt be , and not with the word I say , of which read Beza upon the place : yea le ts looke upon the words , they are an answer of Christs to the Theifs prayer , that Christ would remember him when he came into his Kingdome , not to remember him in this world to save him from the Crosse and temporall death : now Christs answer is accordingly , that he shall be partaker of his heavenly Kingdome , and tells him the time to day , that is , thou shalt be with me without any delay , and so there shall be no danger that I shall forget thee when I come into my Kingdome , for behold , this very day I shall take thee to my Kingdome , vide Rollock : in Cap. 19. Johan . The theif in his prayer speaks to Christ as going presently into his Kingdome , and desires to be remembred upon his coming thither as now being upon the Crosse in a cursed condition : now if Christ had said to him then , he should be with him , but not told him the time when ( the theif knowing he should be dead to day ) but meaning it of a long time , two thousand years af●er , this would not have been so comfortable to the theif ; besides there was no reason nor need of adding to day to that word I say to th 〈…〉 , for the theif knew they were spoken to day , yea at that instant to him ▪ neither could to day be for asseveration ; Christ using that word word of asseveraton A 〈…〉 , instead of that neither is there any paralell place in Scripture where to day is used in such an acception . There is one Master John Ba●hil●r Licenser-Generall of the Sectaries Books , and of all sorts of wicked opinions , Licenser to Master Saltmarsh , Cre●ensis , Walwin , Webb , and divers other Sectaries ; who hath been a Man-midwife to bring forth more monsters begotten by the Divell , and borne of the Sectaries within this three last years then ever were brought into the light in England by all the former Licensers the Bishops and their Chaplaines for fourescore years ; he hath licensed Books pleading for all so●ts of Sectaries , as Seekers , Antinomians ▪ Anab●ptists , &c. as S●●t 〈…〉 sh , and Walwins Books ; and for Antibaptists denying since Christs death all Baptisme by water , as W●bb● Book , page 6. where is ●id down , that I 〈…〉 Baptisme which was water did end at the coming of Christ , and that there is no Baptisme by water instituted by Christ ; yea , for Antiscripturists , Arians , Anitrinitar●ans , Questionists , and all Blasphemers , as is apparent by his licensing that late wicked Pamphlet , call'd , Some modest and humble Queries concerning a printed paper , Intituled an Ordinance presented to the Honourable House of Commons , &c. where if the Reader do but compare the former part of that Ordinance , in what cases only that Ordinance inflicts death , viz. upon the wilfull and obstinate publishers of such damnable Heresies and Blasphemies , with the second Quere made upon that Ordinance , whether it be agreeable to the mind of Christ , for men to inflict the heavie censure of death upon their Brethren , for holding forth such Doctrines , or opinions in Religion , suppose contrary to admonition , which for ought the Inflicters know , except they make themselves infallible , may be the sacred truths of God , he must needs find thus much pleaded for , that therefore such blasphemies and Heresies contained in the Ordinance , yea Atheisme it self ( for that is in the Ordinance , that God is ) may not be punished with death , because for ought any man knowes they may be the ●acred truths of God , and the maintainers and publishers of them our Brethren ; So that at once in this Quere upon the Ordinance , all the fundamentalls of Christian Religion are overthrown , and such Doctrines , and opinions as are contrary unto them ( for ought any man knowes except he make himself in●allible ) may be the sacred truths of God , yea grosse Scepticisme and Atheisme is brought into the Church . This Master Bachiler hath Licensed severall Pamphlets for a Toleration , yea no● only for a limited bounded Toleration of some Sects and opinions , as suppose Anabaptists , Independents ; but for a Universall g●nerall Toleration of all consciences and opinions , as may be seen in * Walwins Books licensed by him ; yea he hath licensed unlice 〈…〉 sed Books printed before he was borne , as a Pamphlet entituled Religious Peace , made by one * Leonard Busher , and printed 1614. wherein there is a pleading for a Toleration of Papists , Jewes , ●very person or persons differing in Religion ; and that it may be lawfull , for them to write , dispute , confer , print and publish , any matter touching Religion , either for or against whomsoever ; And that the wickednesse of Master Bachiler the Independent may the more appear , I desire the Reader to observe in his licensing this and some other Books , these following particulars , First , He gives not a bare Imprimatur to his Book of Bushers , but gives his Imprimatur with a speciall Recommendation in these words ; This usefull Treatise ( entituled Religious Peace ) long since presented by a Citizen of London to King James and the High Court of Parliament , then sitting , I allow to be reprinted ; and so to some of Saltmarshes Books , Smoake in the Temple , Groanes for Liberty , Reasons for Vnity , Love and Peace , &c. We have Imprimaturs with speciall approbations , and discourses of the lovelinesse , exellenty , sweetnesse , glory shining in them . Secondly , in the reprinting of this Book for generall Toleration , call'd Religious Peace , Master Bachiler made some materiall alterations , and writ in the margins of such places in the Book where some speciall passages were for Toleration , that they should be printed in a great letter , differing from the letter in which the body of the Book was printed ; for that end no doubt that the Reader might better observe them ; and this I was told from a person of some quality , and a Scholler who saw the Originall Book , wherein such alterations were made , and told me they were the same hand with that whi●h gave License to the Book . I shall give the Reader an instance or two and no more : whereas Bushers Copie page 16 , is thus , Therefore I humbly desire his Majestie and Parliament , with all godly carefulnesse to consider that 't is not possible that the Church of Rome ( called Catholick , ) or those that ate descended of her , and have received their Faith and Discipline from her , ever was or could be the Apostolick Church ( call'd Primitive Church ) or shee that is descended from her ; Master Bacheler changes it from Faith and Discipline , into Ministery and Ordination , reading it thus , and have received their Ministery and Ordination from her : That passage in the old Edition , page 11. printed in the same letter the whole Book is , viz. Therefore as the Papist ( when they complaine of the Turks and Pagans for their bloody persecution ) do therein condemne themselves , because they are found to do the same , yea worse ; for 't is a greater tyrannie for one Christian to force and kill another , then for Turks and Pagans to kill a Christian , for that is no such great wonder , seeing it is a Paganish part , who have no better knowledge ; but Christians should have better knowledge , and more mercy then to play the Pagans against Christians , is in this new Edition printed in a different character , a greater letter ; neither is this the only Book wherein 't is discovered John Bachiler treads in the steps of some Licensers who went before him , being acquainted with Index . Expurgatorius , but in Webbs Book he altered and changed , as in the second part of Gangraena I at large have shewed . The man hath justified and acquitted the former Licensers , Doctor Baker , Doctor Bray , Doctor Heyward , Doctor Weeks , and the rest of that race , who in the point of licensing were Saints to him , who hath licensed such books and things that I am confident none of them durst have done for feare the people would have risen up and torne them in peeces ; and certainly the people would never have borne with such books in the Bishops dayes ; besides should any man before the sitting of this Parliament have writ , or licensed such Books ( of which good store have been both writ and licensed within this three last years ) that man , or men whoever they had been , had without all question been first questioned and proceeded against by this Parliament , of all men . This Bachiler is such a desperate Licenser , that nothing now in that kind can stick with him , having swallowed down those wicked Queries upon the Ordinance against Heresies and Blasphemies ; and I am afraid that if the Devill himselfe should make a book , and give it the Title , A plea for liberty of conscience , with certaine Reasons against Persecution for Religion , and bring it to Mr. Bachiler , hee would license it , and not onely with a bare Imprimatur , but set before it the commendations of A●sefull Treatise , of A sweet and excellent booke , making for love and peace among brethren ; or some such discourse . In Buckingh ●mshire there are many notorious Sectaries , as at Ail●bury one Dagnall a Book-seller , a map of errors , who to a godly Minister denyed Originall sinne , and maintained other wicked opinions : one Barre a Weaver ; and at Ch●sham , or thereabouts , one H●ch , spoken of at large in the First part of Gangraena ; and another a Gentleman , who was an Officer in the Army , a great Seeker . There is one Carter , having but one eye , a Sectary at Watton in Ha●tfordshire , and a great Pr●acher , who keeps Conventicles on the Lords day , there being grea● resort to him ; never coming to the publike Assemblies . There are many Independents and Sectaries at or neare Lewis in Sussex , some of the chiefe being Mr. Peters Converts , as one Mr. Banniard , Minister ; one Mr. Postlethwait , one Mr. Crafts , ( as I remember the name ; ) Mr. Bunn●ard will not preach upon nor keep the Fast-dayes : being at London on a Fast-day , hee would not goe to Church ; a Gentlewom●n who lives in his house useth to spin upon the Fast-day . And there are divers Sectaries in that Town , that work openly on Fast - 〈…〉 yes . Oats the Weaver , spoken of in the First and Second parts of Gangraena , being arraigned upon his life at Chensford the last Assize , for dipping one Anne Martin , who 〈…〉 ied some fourteen dayes after , and being found not guilty , was bound by the Judge to his good behaviour , and made to ●ind Sureties that hee should neither preach nor dip ; and yet notwithstanding the very next Lord● day hee preached in Chensford , and goes on still in Essex preaching his errors . The people of Wethersfield hearing that Oats and some of his companions were come to their Town , seased on them ( onely Oats was not in the company ) and pumped them soundly . And Oats coming lately to Dunmo 〈…〉 in Essex , some of the Town hearing of it where hee was , fetched him out of the house , and threw him into the river , throughly dipping him . A Citizen who was at Chensford when Oats his triall was , having some knowledge of him , reasoned with him , that setting aside the dispute of the lawfulnesse of Rebaptization , in prudence it could not be well done , to doe that which in ordinary reason would destroy the creature ; viz. in cold weather to dip weakly persons : Unto which answer was made by one Teach an Anabaptist , and a companion of Oats , that God had made a promise in that case , When thou goest through the fire , and through the water , I will be with thee . And when this Citizen said , that was not understood literally in that sense , it was insisted upon that it was to be taken in that sense . The City Remonstrance , and my books , are exceeding hatefull to the Sectaries in the Army ; they speake desperately against the City , and the City Remonstrance ; as among divers other speeches , a Captaine of Lievtenant Generall Cromwells Regiment of Foot spake words to this effect , That the City Remonstrance was as devillish a thing as ever was penned by man : which this Captaine in his testimony against Adjutant Generall Gray , June the 19. being examined , did give in himselfe under his owne hand , of which I have seen a true copy , taken out of the originall Records . I have been told also from good hands , that my books are so hated among the Sectaries in the Army , that no Commanders nor Officers dare be knowne to have them , or to read them : and some Presbyterians ( whose names I shall conceale ) getting the books , have been forced to read them by stealth in the night in their beds , when they have been sure none should carry tales of them . The Presbyterians and Orthodox have been glad to deale with my books in the Army , as the Protestants are glad to doe with Bibles , Mr. Perkins Works , &c. in Countries , as Spain , where the Inquisition is in force . A godly young man and a Scholler who hath been in the Quarters of the Souldiers divers times with them , yea some of the great out● , when they were in the West , in July last , told me and some other company , that hee had heard some of the Sectaries in the Army say , they would not tolerate Presbyterians , though they tole●ated all others ; because they looked upon them as most destructive to them . September 23. I was told from good hands , both from a Minister in the City who hath relation to the place , and from one who came from the place , that a Captaine of the Army quartering with his Company at a Town called Auster , in Warwickshire , preacheth in the Parish Church , sometimes twice on the Lords day , and the Minister , though an honest man , is glad to stand by . A godly Minister of Bristow , preaching in Bristow by way of Exhortation , to exhort men to goe out of themselves , and to rest on Christ , one stood up in the Church , either whilst hee was preaching , or presently upon finishing his Sermon , telling him that hee had preached Antichristianisme to exhort men . The same Minister related it , that a Souldier a great Sectary finding fault with something hee had preached of Christs wondring at their unbeleefe , hee told him they were Christs words ; to which this Sectary replyed , Christ spake thus in his darknesse , or in the time of his darknesse . This Minister also one day discoursing with this Sectary about our being justified by the righteousnesse of Christ , the same Sectary replyed , Christs righteousnesse was a beggarly righteousnesse . A godly Minister who lives in Somersetshire told me of a Sectary and a Sequestrator , who to him maintained Adultery was no sinne ; and to another Minister , that drunkennesse was no sinne , but a help to see Christ the better by . Hee told me also that some Sectaries , having a Book among them called The fulnesse of Gods love , maintained generall election , that God had chosen all men to life , and that election was of all men ; with whom this Minister reasoned , alledging that in the 9. of the Romanes , vers . 11 , 13 , &c. and telling them , the word Election implied it was of some , not of all ; for if I come and chuse , I take some , and leave others ; but if I take all , I doe not chuse . There is a godly Minister who came out of the Army lately , and understands the state of it very well , that told some Members of the House of Commons , there are some whole Troops in the Army that hold such desperate opinions , as denying the Resurrection of the dead , and hell ; which relation I had from a worthy Member of the House , with the names of the Parliament men to whom it was told , and of the Minister who told it . I was told by some honest understanding men , who heard Master Barroughs preach , that on the day of the last Thanksgiving in September , hee preaching at his Lecture at Michaels Cornhill , on Psal . 78. 42. spoke against the City , for being unthankfull to the Army , the Instruments of their deliverance , by whose meanes they enjoyed the clothes they wore , the bread they eat , the trading they had ; and discoursing of that liberty , peace , trading , which this City had by their means , threatned heavie judgements on this City , what judgements they might expect , for unthankfulnesse to the Instruments of their good , who had been a meanes to save them , because they would not have them have their liberty ; but ( saith hee , speaking of the Army ) if they would stand upon termes , or capitulate with us , what might they not have ? and if they were an Army of Papists , what would they not have ? with other things to that purpose , insomuch as these Citizens said , many spake of the Sermon , and that these were dangerous insinuations , especially there being divers Souldiers belonging to the Army there present . I enquired also of a godly Minister who heard this Sermon , of the truth of these passages , and hee said there were such passages to that effect . And Master Burroughs in his preaching at Cornhill , besides what hee may doe in other places , hath often strange passages and flings , as a little before that , against the City Remonstrance , ( though hee named it not ) which many took notice of ; and at other times against the Presbyterians , comparing them to Esau , and the Independents to Jacob ; speaking of Esau , how many rough , wild men had been brought down in the field , and wee had at home many Esaus , wild , rough men against their brethren , who hee doubted not should be brought down in due time ; or words to that effect . There is one Master Symonds of Sandwich a great Independent , who preached , that though hee would not say that all who came not into the Church-way were damned , yet hee would say that all who had opportunity to joyne to that way , and did not , but lived and died without repentance , for not coming into the Church-way , should be damned : And , saith hee , we had been in the Church-way in this place before now , but for an Apostate Brother in this Town , speaking of a godly Minister once an Independent , but converted from the error of that way : and this Master Symonds brought that place Zech. 14. 17 , 18 , 19. that the Lord will smite them that come not up to keep the feast of Tabernacles : Now a godly Minister in the same Town shewed these Notes to a Member of the House of Commons , who asked this Master Symonds , why this place makes not as much against those who will not joyne in a Presbyteriall way , as against those who will not be Independents ? This Master Symonds reporting of this godly Minister that hee was a lyar , hee went to him with two more , in a faire way , to speak to him , and this Master Symonds was so imperious and high , that hee called this godly Minister , An intolerable Fellow and malicious . Some of the Magistrates of that Town asking Master Symonds , why divers of the people in the time of the publike Assemblies met in private , hee answered , Can you blame them , when they have nothing but bread and cheese in publike ? speaking of this godly mans Ministery . Now upon occasion of Master Symonds branding this godly Minister for an Apostate , because hee had forsaken the Independent way , this godly Minister presently after in his owne Church publikely confessed , hee was once of the Independent way , and actually entered into a Church Covenant , and would baptize none but the children of parents in the Church Covenant ; but ( saith hee ) this was , when I was in the Iland of Providence alone , and in the dark ; but when I came into England , since this Parliament , and compared both wayes together , the Presbyterian and Independent , confer'd with divers Ministers about them , read books , as Master Rutherfords , &c. heard Master John Goodwin preach some Sermons for Presbytery , I saw the power of the Keyes to be in the Ministers of the Church , not the people , the Church Covenant , and all those wayes of admission , requiring men to give signes of grace , &c. to be Will-worships ; when I came to hold up the Independent way in the light , ( like as men doe the cloth they buy ) I saw it was a moth eaten garment , and had many flawes in it . Hee told the people hee had been humbled privately before God , that hee had been of that way , and now desired to be publikely humbled for it ; and confessed his sinne in being a Minister of an Independent Church , and gave God glory , saying , I am not ashamed to recant that wherein I did amisse and was mistaked ; it was 〈◊〉 shame to Paul to confesse hee was a blasphemer ; and hee wished that some Ministers who had been Stage-player , and Cringers to the name of Jesus , pleading for bowings , would publikely confesse , and follow his example ; for , saith this godly Minister , I doe this to set them an example ; and who would account the worse of them if they followed my example ? This Minister tells me hee turned not ( God knowes ) for any outward respects ; for whilst hee was in Providence , hee was ba●kt and upheld in that way , against all oppositions , by some great ones ; and when hee was come to London , namely ( since this Parliament ) hee was offered maintenance and support in that way ; but coming to examine things , hee found the Scriptures hee went upon did not prove the things ; and observing that the way whilst hee was in it was full of factions , fractions and divisions , and finding divers of his members that were come out of Providence into England turned some to be Anabaptists , some Antinomians , some Seekers , all these things laid together , God blessed to recover him out of that dangerous way of error and schisme wherein hee was . In May last , a Commander belonging to the Army told me , that hee hath heard many Souldiers of the Army who are Sectaries say , when newes hath come to the Army , of the Parliaments setling the Presbyterian Government , What have wee fought for then all this while , if that must be setled ? The same Commander tells me hee hath heard divers of the Sectaries belonging to the Army pray , but never , as hee could observe , did they pray for forgivenesse of sinne ; neither doth hee think that any of the Sectaries in the Army use to pray for pardon of sinnes . There is one Crab of Southwar● side , a Dipper and a Preacher , who vents strange doctrines against the Immortality of the soul , &c. This man was complained of this summer to the Lord Major , for speaking words against the King , as that it was better to have a golden Cal●e or an Asse set up , with such kind of expressions , then to have a King over them : For which words hee was bound over to answer at the Sessions ; but I heare nothing what is become of him . There is one Lieutenant B. a Lieutenant of a Troop of Horse , a great Sectarie , who is so proud and conceited , that he thinks himself able to dispute with the whole Assembly , and calls our godly Ministers Priests at every word ; he affects strange ▪ high words , saying , they who have the invisible motions of the spirit have nothing to doe with them who are in carnality ; he hath given out that Master Angelo and the other Priests at Bristoll , durst not dispute with him ; he makes nothing of any Minister , nor of those whom he formerly received most good from ; and that the Reader may have a true character of this Sectary , I shall set down a Relation given me in writing from an understanding godly man , who came this Summer from Bristoll and those parts ; which is as followes . ' I was lately at Bristoll , wher I saw one Lieutenant B. who ( as I was credibly informed by ●are witnesses ) hath publikly contradicted Master Pa●le and Master Angelo where they have preached ( once the Deputy Governour , and the Major of the City being present ) his carriage towards the godly Ministers being generally disliked by the Citizens , ●ieutenant B. was confined to his Chamber , upon which he writes to the Deputy Governour that he cared not for Priests , Governours , nor Committees , or words to the same effect . The same Lieutenant hath formerly preached publikly in his searlet Coat laced with silver lace . I was told by one of the Committee , and a godly man , that he and Mr Angelo had heard one Thomas Web pr●ach Blasphemy in Ratcliffe Church Bristoll , which Web doth go from place to place , in Glocester and Summersetshires seducing people , as I am informed by credible persons . There is a godly understanding man come from New-England this year , who lived there many yeares , and knowes well the Ministers , Magistrats , and state both of their Church and Common-wealth ( who also is drawing up a Tractate of their Church way and practises , illustrated by examples and experiments made upon many there ; which hath been communicated to me so farre as he had proceeded in it ; ) Now this m●n related to me July 27. in the presence of a godly Gentleman , that he saw and read a Manuscript , which was in the hands of many , and made by some of their Magistrats ( as it was conceived ) for an Arbitrary Government in the Common-wealth ; that in crimes and offences committed , there should not be certain penalties appointed by Laws , to which the Governours and Magistrate should keep , but it should be left to the discretion and wisdome of the Magistrate what he thought ●it to inflict in case of such and such crimes ; and in this written Book many reasons were given for this Arbitrary Government , and against being tied to Laws , as the instance of Solomon in commanding to divide the child upon the complaint of the true , and false Mother ; as that Magistrates were Gods , so call'd , especially in regard of their wisdome : Now how or wherein should their wisdome and gifts be manifested , if a liberty were not left to them ? for a boy migbt read the Law , and pronounce the sentence according to that , and therefore that the gifts of Government might be exercised , sentences and penalties should be left to the Magistrates . This man tells me , many others read this Manuscript as well as he , and so great notice was taken of it , that some in New-Engl . when they were a going to Boston , or speaking of going thither , would say , le ts take heed what we do there , least we loose our heads , for what offences the Governour shall think an● say deserves beheading . Now as Independency , and many other opinions being first broached in New-England have come over into Old , so I have reason to suspect by the Arbitrary Government exercised by too many in these times , and the great workings of many to uphold Arbitrary power , and to keep all things from being setled in Common-wealth as well as in Church , there are some Sectaries of that opinion among us , especially when I lay to that opinion broached in New-England , some passages preached in a Sermon by Master Peters , August 2. 1646. at Islington , on that Text on the fourth of Colos . vers . 12. in which Sermon Master Peters speaking of perfect men , used these words , and such like , Yee talk of Laws , Laws ; the Kingdome is not to be maintained by Lawes , but by perfect men . August 13. two Booksellers of Pauls Church-yard told me , that a Bookseller offering to exchange Books , as Master Dents P●th-wayes to Heaven for some of Saltmarshes Books , answer was made by a Sectarie , what do you bring such Books for ? you may stop bottles with them , we will take none of your old Divinity , we have new light and new Divinity now . A woman who sometimes was a Member of a Church of the Anabaptists , acquainted me in June fifth , she was of one Blunt , Emmes , and Wrighters Church , one of the first and prime Churches of Anabaptists now in these latter times : This woman thought there was somthing more excellent in this company , and that way , 〈…〉 en in other men , and that she might have trusted her life with them ; but after awhile she found them a wreched people ; The Church broke into peeces , and some want one way , some another , divers fell off to no Church at all . She married a husband a Box-maker , one of Lams company , who got from her all he could , and set up a Boxmakers-shop on purpose ( as she conceives ) to get what she had to furnish a shop with , and after a time went away from her into the Army , and though he came out of the Army a long while agoe , yet he keeps from her , and will not live with her , nor allow her any maintenance ; and she having followed him to his Church and meetings , the Church maintaines him in it ( as she reports to me ) saying she is an unbeleever and of the world , what have they to do with her , with other words to that effect ; and when she goes to any place , where shehears he is , or thinks she may find him , they abuse her , are ready to offer her violence , andsome of these Sectaries will deny he is married to her , and bid her prove it . Now she tells me that in those Anabaptists Churches , ( of which she sometimes was ( they are not married by Ministers , nor by any other man speaking words to each party which they assent to , but before some of their way they professe to take each other to live together , and one of their company writes down in a paper , with some hands subscribed to it , of two such going together on sucha day ; which writing this woman had in her keeping , but her husband coming in one night late after she was a bed , got it out of the place where she had laid it ; and now she is troubled how she shall prove him to be her husband . There is one Mr Saltmarsh , a man who hath of late writ many trashie Pamphlets , full stuffed with all kind of Errors , ignorance , and impudency , and hath been well answered and bas●ed by three Learned Divines , two of them grave and ancient , Master Gataker , and Master Ley ; the third a young man , Master W. and I am still in his debt for some passages in his Groa●es for Liberty , and Reasons for Vnity , Love and Peace , against my first and second parts of Gangraena , but resolve to come out of it ; For besides what I have said to him in the second part of Gangraena , and shall say in this third , I purpose to reckon with him once for all , in another Tractate . This Master Saltmarsh this last half year hath much followed the Army , a fit place for him ; and of him and his Doctrine there , the Reader if he turne back ●o page 45. may read more . When Oxford was taken , he was one of those famous Preachers ▪ who preached at Saint Marles ( as the weekly newes Books gave it out , ) as fit a man to credit the Parliament and the Reformation with the Universitie , as his Brother Peters . Master Saltmarsh being to preach in the Army on a Fast day this Summer , made a Preface by way of Apologie , that he preached not for the Fast , he would not he understood to preach as upon that occasion , or that his Sermon was a Fast Sermon . He hath been at Bath this year , and there in one of the lesser Churches preached , that at John Baptist wore a leatherne girdle , so his Doctrine was leather at Doctrine : He would have preached at the great Church , but the Minister would not give way ; whereupon he came to the Ministers house to contest with him , about denying him his Pulpit , and speaking so of him to them who came for leave , especially seeing he had never seen him before ; unto whom the Minister replyed , he had heard of him by M. John Ley , and Master Thomas Edwards , and was fully satisfied concerning him ; besides he said I have heard of one Master Saltmarsh , who in the time of the former differences between the King and the Scots , viz. before this Parliament , made verses to incense the King to Warre against the Scots , when he went into the North ; and that when the late Oath , made by the Bishops of &c. came forth , went many miles to an Archdea●on to take that Oath upon his knees ; unto which Master Saltmarsh replyed , he was then in his darknesse , and the Minister of Bath rejoyned , he thought him to be still in the smoak . There is Cretensis , alias Master John Goodwin , a monstrous Sectary , a compound of Socinianisme , Arminianisme , Libertinisme , Antinomianisme , Independency , Popery , yea and of Seep 〈…〉 cisme , as holding some opinions proper to each of these . This man for twelve yeares last past hath disturbed the City of London , with broaching continually one Error or other , which was the true cause why the Bishops and their Chap 〈…〉 es suffered him , ( though in severall particulars irregular according to the Bishops wayes ) to preach , when they put down others , and would not suffer them , and all because by his conceits and fancies he would disturb the Puritan party : I could alledge what Mr Burton coming to 〈…〉 e him in those times prophessed of him ; what M. Thomas Goodwin hath said of him for his opinions about justification , and what others of the Church-way have said of him , but I shall reserve them . A Reverend and learned Divine of another Kingdome , hearing him pray and preach , gave this judgement of him before he turned Independent , that he had hereticum ingenium , his genius seemed to be for Error , and as some men discover a naturall inclination , and a disposition to one evill more then another , some to theft , being given more to st 〈…〉 ling , some to lying ; so is Master Goodwin to Heresie and Error , seems to be made for a Heretick . I shall instance now only in a few things by which the Reader may judge of the man , and of his way . A very godly and judicious Minister told me , that he being at London about Spring was a twelve month , he went to heare Master Goodwin preach , who preaching upon that subject how hard a thing it was to beleeve the Gospel , aggravated the hardnesse of beleeving by these Reasons , one was because there were many contradictions in the Scripture as they appeared to us , and he instanced in divers , as about Justification , &c. A second was , because take two men of equall abilities for holinesse , learning , parts , and these shall expound the Scripures different wayes , so that which Exposition shall a man take to in this case ? Now besides these he gave divers others such Reasons , never salving or reconciling any of them ; so that the Minister professed to me , he trembled to heare him , and hath looked upon him ever since as a wicked man , judgeing the scope of his preaching , was ●ather to make unbeleevers and Atheists , then to work Faith in men . Another godly Minister tells me , that some judicious hearers , among the rest a Gentleman of parts , going to heare him preach on a Lords day , he then was upon the Majestie of the Scriptures , and among other instances to prove the Majestie of the Scriptures , he spoke of the contradictions in the Scripture , and went over many particulars , and so left them without any solution or Answer ; at which this Gentleman was so offended , that he sp●●e of this to divers the same day , and said the Sermon was enough to have made all them Atheists who heard it . A godly Minister in the City hearing him preach ( and as I remember ) it was on his Tuseday Lecture at his Conventicle house , upon that point that there were many necessary truths that cannot be proved by Scriptures , save only by a strong hand of Reason ; and instancing in that point of proving Christ to be God , he runne over those Scriptures brought to prove Christ to be God , and answered them with the Arian , and Socinians evasions , and so left them , never taking away those Answers , as if the man would in a subtle close way , whil'st he seemed to prove somthing else , and confute the Anabaptists , sow the seeds of Socinianisme : This Minister was much troubled at it , spake of it to many Ministers of the City , how no Socinian could have pleaded against Christ being God , more then M. Goodwin , so far as concerned the eluding of those Scriptures , which are the proofs of it , and could not but leave a tincture in the mind of the Auditors , that it could not be proved by Scripture that Jesus Christ was God , seeing the cheif and most pregnant places for it were so Answered . These practises and way of Cretensis , brings to my mind the practise of Sebastian Franck , a Learned man , and indeed the most Learned Sectary of all the Sectaries in these latter times , both before him , and in his age , who hath written a Book ex professo , to shew the discordances of Scriptures , laying down many instances in this kind , and so leaving them without shewing any harmony or agreement ; Which Franck being a great Seeker , and Enthusiast , did it without all question upon a designe to drawe men off from the Scriptures , to Revelations . Two religious and understanding Citizens told me the tenth of June last , and said they could bring many more to attest it , that they heard ( not long before ) Master John Goodwin preach at his Conventicle as followes ; That we should not condemne any thing for an Error , till we had taken as much paines in the searching out whether it were so or no , as he which broached the Error had done in promoting it ; for he did beleeve a man might serve God better in an Error , then he who was in the truth . Here is a brave Patron of Error and a fine fetch to plead for and uphold it , for if Errour must not be condemned till men have taken so much paines , it may never be spoken against , or at least not till 't is grown to such a head that 't is past help : For a Heretick who broaches any Doctrine against the Scripures , the Trinity , the humane nature of Christ , Justification , may say to him who opposes these Doctrines , I have studied this twenty yeares these points ; when you have studied them as long , then preach 〈◊〉 , against them , but not before ; Besides this implies as if Ministers and Christians could not be sure any Doctrines were Errors , without long searching whether they were so or no , and as if there were no received known principls and Doctrines of Christian Religion , lay'd down so plainly and clearly in Scriptures , that when errors were published contrary to them , Ministers and Christians might not condemne them at first , but must study and search to know whether they were Errors or no ; which preaching fits well with many passages in some Books of Cretensis , especially his thirtie eight Queres upon the Ordinance against Heresie and Blasphemie . Secondly , There are many thousand truths both to be beleeved and practised , that are not contained in the Scriptures , as that Jesus Christ Son of the Virgin. Mary was the Son of God ; as the Resurrection from the dead , as Baptizing of Infants , womens receiving the Sacrament of the Lords Supper ; all which could not be proved by Scripture , but by a strong hand of Reason deducing them . Many other passages I have from good hands of Cretensis preaching , of his preferring Reason before Faith in points of Religion ; of holding the sleeping of the soule till the Resurrection , of bodies that dye not rising the same again , with divers such ; but I shall reserve them , with the proofs of them , both persons , times and places , till my nex Answer comes out against him , and shall now instance only in one Pamphlet lately set forth by * him , call'd some Modest and humble Quenes , upon the late Ordinance against Heresies ; concerning which I may say as the Holy Ghost doth of Herods imprisoning John , he hath added yet this above all , to write such a wicked Pamphlet , and at such a time , there being not a more desperate ungodly , Atheisticall peece written by any man since the Reformation : I have had occasion to read many Discourses and Tractats of Libertines , and Scepticks that have been writ within this last hundred years , and have seen much wickednesse in them , both in those of other Countries , and our own , especially those written and newly printed within five years last past : but in none of them do I find ( all things considered ) such a spirit of Libertinisme , Atheisme , prophanesse and laying waste of all Religion , breathing , as in these Queres ; for besides those evill spirits of Error , scoffing , disorder , confusion , irreligion that works in all the other Queres , ther 's a Legion of wicked and uncleane spirits ( seven fold worse then those that have been cast out ) in that second Quere , wherein it will appear manifestly to all who compare the first part of the Ordinance with that Quere , that all Christian Religion is overthrown at once , yea that principle written in all mens hearts by nature , that there is a God ; for doctrines and opinions contrary unto these , for ought any knowes , may be the sacred truths of God , and the publishers of them our Brethren , according to this Quere . Now I challenge any man to shew me a more desperate destenctive passage in the writings of any Libertine or Sectary then this : How hath the Lord left him to himself , to write such Queries ? I remember that in my Second Part of Gangrana , in that part of it which is a Reply to Cretensis , in Page 35. I write thus , That I feared ( unlesse God gave him repentance ) if hee lived but one seven years , hee would prove as Arch an Heretick , and as dangerous a man as ever England bred ; and that hee would be another David George , Francken , Socinus ; and behold within a few moneths , not giving God glory to repent of his evill deeds , but going on to write , hee hath by these Queries made good what I prophesied of him , and hath filled up the measure of his iniquities ; so that I beleeve hee hath justified Corn●●rt , Sebastian Franck , Francken , S●cinus , David George , with all the rest of that rabble ; and I doe not think 't is lawfull for Christians to receive such a one into their house , or to bid him God speed , but rather if they come where he is to fly from him , and not to stay , as Saint John did from C●rinthus ; and for his writing of these Queries , I think godly Ministers speaking of him , may call him as Polycarpus did Marcion : I hope some good hand will make Animadversions upon them , and give an Answer to those Queries . Now , notwithstanding all the desperate opinions and principles he pleads for , and the Independent separated Church that hee is Minister of , there 's one opinion hee holds , and practises accordingly , different from the Independent way , viz. That Baptisme belongs not onely to the Children of those who are added to a particular Church , and that Ministers may not onely baptize the Children of Parents of their own Church , but may baptize Children to whom they have no relation , viz. in any Parish or place where they are desired ; and two honest Citizens told me they heard him preach , That Baptisme was not a Church Ordinance that required the presence of the members of the Church , but might be administred any where , either in the same Congregation , or in another place : And , I conceive , though he be an Independent , yet he holds this and some other things in his Church way different from the other Independents ; as for this Reason , that he may be singular in his way , and in something differ from them , so that hee might keep a doore open for his profit and gain ; and hence 't is , I have been informed from severall hands , that as he is a zealous man for Funerall Sermons , so he is a Baptizer generall , baptizing in Stepney Parish , Hackney , severall Parishes of London , and baptizes sometimes three or foure in a day , going from one place to another , and that 't is thought hee many times gets fifty shillings and three pound a day by baptizing children who are not of his Church ; and I have spoken with some women , who have been at such baptizings , and have seen the gold put into his hand ; which , I must confesse , is a good wise way to the maintenance allowed him by his Church , to have this additionall means from them that are without , for the more comfortable maintenance of his wife and children . But by the way , whilst Master Goodwin baptizes those who are not of his Church , which surely hee doth no● doe as a gifted Brother , but as a Minister , and is an act of power and office , not of love and charity onely , the Independents greatest and onely Argument to speak of , used in the Assembly , in their Sermons , and some printed Books against a Presbyteriall Church , and Ministers ruling in common over more then their particular Congregation , is fully answered ; for if they may of themselves without the consent of the Minister of that Congregation , baptize who are not of their Church , then certainly they may with consent of the Ministers and Officers of such Churches joyn in the ruling and governing of them who are not of their Congregations ; and by this the ruling power of Ministers does not extend further then their power of feeding by the word and Sacraments ; and therefore till I give Master Burroughs a particular Answer to this Reason of his , Wee would have the ruling power of Ministers not to extend further , &c. pag. 29. of his Vindication against Master Edwards , and such a like passage in his Irenioum , I referre him to Master Goodwin to be satisfied what reasons hee hath to baptize those over whom he hath not a Pastorall charge , and the same will be found to hold stronglier for a power of governing those who are not of a Ministers particular Congregation : and yet Master Burroughs , if hee were pleased to take notice , might find this very Argument answered in the Antapologia , ( being brought by the Apologists in their Apologeticall Narration ) and in the Assemblies Answer to the Reasons of the Dissenting Brethren given in against Presbyteriall Government ; which Answers were never yet taken away by the Apologists , or any of them ; and Cretensis in his late pretended Reply to my Antapologie takes no notice of them , as he does not to the rest of the Arguments against their Non-communion , &c. but is so wise as after taking two yeares and upward for Answer , yet to crave further day for payment , filling up many sheets with mending the Printers and Correctors faults , and making many faults where there are none , let●ing passe all the materiall thing● both in matters of fact and Arguments till a Second Part , which the Reader may expect ad Grae●as Kalendas : And of this learned Reply to the Antapologie , a worthy Divine writes to me , Septemb. 12 as followes ; I have lighted upon the frothy Answer to the Antapologie , of which ( lay aside pedanticall jeers , unchristian misconstruction , Rhetoricall flashes , and Jesuiticall equivocations ) there will be scarce so much of a solid Answer remaining as would fill one sheet of those 38. that swells its puffe-paste bulk . There is one Master Hugh Peters who came over from New-England about five yeares agoe , a great Agent for the Sectaries , who hath many wayes , by preaching , writing , conference and discourse , and above all by acting in severall kinds , promoted the Independent way : The Reader shall find him spoken of in the First , and Second Parts of Gangraena , Pag. 40 , 41. of the third Edition , in some of Master * Pry●s Books , in a Book called , The Sectaries Anatomized , pag. 3. Now I will give the Reader an account of him , in relating some of his passages in Sermons , Books and Discourses . In Sermons hee hath preached as followes : In the first yeare the Scots came into England hee hath in the Pulpit spoken well of them ; as in a Sermon at Covent Garden , commending their Army , hee said there was in one Regiment of the Scots fifteen hundred or seventeen hundred Bibles : but since that time of the new Modell of the Army , hee hath preached against them , as at Lewis in Sussex , where also hee spake against the Presbyterians , because they will not live voluntarily upon the good will of the people , but will stand upon such a meanes , whereas the Independents will preach freely , asking nothing ; So at Master Gatakers Church at Redriffe on the monethly Fast-day , May 27. 1646. hee preached against the Scots by name , that these Scots now in the Land were a new Generation , not those Scots that came in at first to our help , but these were other Scots come from Sweathland , Germany , and he knew not whence ; that to his knowledge they had sent away whole bushels full , or ●uns full of money , at that time also hee preached concerning the monethly Fasts , that they were Canonicall set Fasts , and hee wished they were suspended for a time , and Fasts taken up occasionally : And on May 17. at Cruciat Friars , he preached concerning the Scots , and of our Army , what a holy religious Army it was , and that they would have no warre with the Scots , unlesse it should appeare out of the word of God they ought to have ; and if it should prove so , yet they would goe to fight with their Brethren of Scotland with tears in their eyes . On the last of May , 1646. preaching at the Three Cranes in the Evening , he spoke against the * Common Councell , for medling with that they had nothing to do with , going beyond their Commission , saying , Let them look into their Charter and see if there be any such thing mentioned : He found fault with the City Remonstrance , saying , We now fall upon Remonstrating and Petitioning one against another , instead of giving God thanks for his late deliverances and mercies vouchsafed unto us . In this Sermon he spake slightly of the Covenant , and of those who made such a stirre about it , in pressing the people to be carefull in sticking to it , as if they would have them to make an Idoll of the Covenant : In this Sermon also hee spake about the King to this purpose , what a stirre here was about a King , as if we could not live without one , and how fond we were to hug and embrace him , who struck us a box on the ea●e the other day , and all because he now stroakes us on the cheeks : In this ●ermon also he spake , that wee were now grown to a refined Malignancy , so that he saw no more difference between these times , and the first times of the troubles , then between a half crown piece and two shillings and six pence ; by his discourse in the Pulpit it was carried in such a way , as under the Malignant striking at the Presbyterian party , who opposed Sectaries : In this Sermon he spake also of the Army to this effect , that when hee thought of the Army , and the carriage of men towards them , hee thought of Jesus Christ , how like they were to him , that as he went about doing good and working miracles , and at length the people crucified him , so will men do with this Army . This Sermon was so offensive , that I was told of it by divers ; and some Citizens went to speak with him about it , and the conference that passed between him and them I shall acquaint the Reader with under the head of Master Peters discourses . Master Peters in the Army in Hedington Fort hath preached against the City of London , incensing the Army against the City ; of which the Reader may read more if he turn backward to page 24. Since the taking of Oxford by the Parliament forces hee hath preached in Saint Maries , the same day when Master * Saltmarsh did , besides other times that hee hath preached in Oxford , and there goe credible reports from persons of worth , both of strange passages preached by him concerning the King , and of souldiers in the Army that he could pick out , that should be able to open Scriptures , draw Doctrines , make uses better , and more proper , then any of the Schollers in the Universitie ; and that he would make a boy of twelve yeares of age to preach as good Divinity as most of them , or to that effect : But because I had not these Relations at first hand from eare witnesses , I will not assert them till I have fuller proof . Master Peters at Plymouth , and since at London preached , that suppose a Father have five Children , one a drunkard , another an adulterer , a third a swearer , and so in the rest , and hee cannot reclaim them , will hee presently throw them into the Thames ? will he not wait for their amendment , use meanes for their conversion ? so now in a Kingdome , their are some Anabaptists , others Antinomians , others Brownists , others Papists ; will the Magistrat presently , because these cannot beleeve their Truths , cut off their heads and kill them ? with more words to this effect , M. Peters preached at Linclons Inne , upon that text , Acts 5. of Gamaliels counsell , and upon that Text in the same Sermon he contradicted himself ; for his first point taken from Gamaliel , that Gamaliel a great man in place , a rich man , and yet a gracelesse wicked man was this , that a man may be a great man in place , power , and yet a gracelesse man ; and in the latter part of his Text and Sermon , he fel upon speaking of Gamaliels giving that counsel , Refrain from these men and let them alone , and there he called him good Gamaliel , honest Gamaliel , wise Gamaliel , with many words to that purpose , saying , I professe I had rather live under Gamaliels Government then any I know of ; where shall a man read of such a man ? I had rather live under Gamaliels Government , then under any of the Presbyterians . And in his pleading for Liberty of conscience upon those words of Gamaliel , one of his Arguments against all restraint was , because we the English Nation naturally above others were given to change , and did not love to be held to any thing ; in a few years we turned foure or five times , we were Papists in Henry the eights dayes , Protestants in King Edwards dayes , Papists in Quene Marys dayes , Protestants again in Queen Elizabeths raigne . Master Peters preached on a solemne day of thanksgiving at Christ Church , before both Houses , the City of London , the Assembly ; and in that Sermon among many other odd passages , he would make a marriage that day between the Parliament and the City , marry them together , and he bid all those who consented to this marriage to hold up their hands , he holding up his own ; but as it fell out this did not take , for very few of the Congregation held up their hands : I heard not the Sermon , but it was related to me by some Ministers , and Citizens , who did hear it , that they beleeve never in the memory of man so weak and so odd a Sermon was preached before such an Auditory . In August last , Master Peters preached at Stepny upon that Text , In me yee shall have peace ; on which words he discoursed as followes ; That now every one was inquiring after peace , asking for peace , desiring peace , he told them here was peace in Christ , but as for that other peace which they so much asked after , though now they had a month or two , a time of cessation , reprivall for in Gods keeping Sessions , yet they must look shortly for Warre ; and he said for himself , though many are ●o● peace , peace , hee was for Warre ; he said there were times ▪ and offers of peace , which God offereth to places , and if they take them , well and good , but if not , they may never have them more ; and he cryed out , O Stepny , Steptny , thou hast had thy time of peace , and the day of visitation by * two famous and worthy lights ; you have had your morning Star , and your evening Star ; still he spake of two lights some half a score times in this Sermon , never taking notice of a third , Doctor Hoyle , the Minister of the place ; and speaking of the offers of peace , which if men take not , they shall never have again , he spake of New-Castle and the King , how he had had offers of peace in the Propositions lately sent him , but for ought he knew for refusing the offer of peace , hee might never have it more , but he and his Children , and that ere long might beg their bread . I might further relate some passages of Sermons preached by him in divers other places , as Islington , ( where commonly upon his returne out of the Army he payes his first fruits ) Wapping , Fishstreet-hil , Lumbardstreet , Chensford , Kent , Holland , with other places ; but I have yet divers things to relate of his conferences and discourses , and out of his printed Pamphlets ; and shall come ●rom his Sermons to some of his Discourses : A godly understanding Citizen told me the twenty ninth of May last , that Master Peters had said to him a few dayes before , that the City Remonstrance was the foundation of all the Cities misery , and would be so , the Army would disband , and the Commanders would come and lay down Armes presently upon it . He brag'd also to this Citizen , that he would prove the Church of England to be no true Church , and meet any man to maintaine it next morning at eight of the clock . Upon Master Peters Sermon preached the last of May , 1646. at the three Cranes spoken of a little before , there were two Citizens being offended at many passages in that Sermon , went to him that night to conferre with him for satisfaction , and under both their hands they gave me in writing the summe of the conference between him and them , which is as followes . Upon occasion of Master Hugh Peters preaching at the three Cranes Church in the Vintry , we went to speak with Master Peters about his Sermon , and finding him at Colonell Rowland Wilsons house , we waited on him till he came forth , and speaking to him , one of us told him we had some businesse with him , and would come to him another time , apprehending it unseasonable because late ; he told us we must speak with him now , for he was to go forth of London the next morning about foure of the clock : We then told him we came to speak with him about some things he had preached that afternoon ; and the first thing we spake to him of , was , that he should say men made an Idoll of the Covenant , to which Master Peters replied , so you do , I can meet with none almost in London ▪ but they ●ry 〈…〉 , the Covenant , the Covenant , as if we were beasts before we took the Covenant , and that made us men ; he further said that he had taken it ( as hee thought ) at least twenty times , and saw nothing in it , that men should make such a stir about it ▪ W● spake to him of his speaking in his Sermon against the City R 〈…〉 st , he stood to justifie what he had said , and calld it a wicked thing , and being asked wherin , he said there was a passage in it , that no godly man must live amongst us , or have any place of trust in the Kingdome ; being told there was no such passage in the Remonstrance , and that he being a Minister might be ashamed to speak that which was so false ; a friend of his standing by , said , Master Peters meant , it was so in effect ; and Master Peters said , that we would let no Sectaries ( as wee term'd ●hem ) live or have any place of trust amongst us , and for his part hee was an Independent , and one of those we termed Sectaries , and in that no Independent nor Sectary might have any places of trust , that implyed the godly ; it being replyed the word Independent was not expressed in the Remonstrance , he affirmed it was , but other discourse put of the examination of it : Master Peters said what would we have , and asked if we did not live well and quietly enough , and might not follow our Trades and businesse in peace , and why should we trouble our selves with these things ; the Sects and Schismes did us no harme ; we told him there was other danger besides our Trades , they destroyed soules , and wee were bound by our Covenant to oppose Heresies and Schismes , and asked him whether or no it was not lawfull and warrantable to Remonstrate , or Petition against sinne and ●●rour ▪ and whether our late Petitions against Popery and Prelacy were not Justifiable , and whether or no he had not a hand in that against Bishops ? He answered he thought Errors did not so destroy soules , and that he could worke upon a Papist as soon as one of your Protestants : And for the Bishops ; had not they troubled him in his temporalls by taking from him his maintenance , and subsistence , he had never molested or troubled them ; for he knew not but that the Papists , Prelats , and we might live quietly together , and serve God in love and peace . And being asked then , how the Parliament could justiful their quarrell , and Warre yet on foot , seeing they opposed both , by open Armes , terming it in all their Declarations the cause of God and Religion ; He answered that the true cause was not for Religion , for he knew no word of God to warrant fighting , or taking up of Armes in the cause of Religion , but it was only to maintain our civill rights and liberties ; and there being discourse of the Magistrats power , he asked what the Magistrate had to do in Religion ? answer was made , the Magistrate had power to put Blasphemers and Idolaters to death ; Master Peters replyed , yes in the old law , but none in the Gospel ; He being asked by what power they in New-England did banish for opinions , he made a kind of a slight answer , saying they did but send them over a River out of the Patent ; and would you would give us Cornwell , we would be content to live there . He being spoken to about what he said of the King , was asked whether wee ought not to use all lawfull wayes for bringing the King unto his people , seeing he lately had made such faire offers ? Master Peters replyed , we might trust him if we would , but if we knew what Letters of his they had lately intercepted in the Army , we would soon be of another mind . Master Peters asked us , whether as we came to him about what he preached , had we ever been with Master Edwards about what he had written against the Saints : we told him we conceived Master Edwards had written nothing against the Saints , neither was what he had written any offence to us , as what he had preached was , and that we had cause to beleeve what Mr Edwards had written was true , he being a godly Minister : Master Peters asked what had he to do with the particular infirmities of particular men ; we told him as he was a Minister of the Gospel , he had to do with them , as Paul had to do with H●meneus & Rhile●as ; Master Peters said that was in matter of Faith , but Master Edwards had medled with the Saints in matters of practise ; to which wee replyed that Saint John wrote against Diotrophes in point of practise ; and wherein men made their seeming holinesse a meanes for the receiving of their Erroneous opinions , there was cause that their practises should be spoken against to undeceive people ; and so parting with him , one of us advised him to forbear his practises , for hee laboured to deceive the people . June the third , 1646. I walking in Westminister Hall , Master Peters meeting me , spake to me , that I had abused him in Print , and that I had broken a Gospel rule , which was , If thy Brother offend thee , go and tell him his fault between him and thee alone ; I answered him I had not transgressed the rule , for that was in case of private of●●nding , but he had publikely preached and vented himself , and private telling would not have been a remedy sufficient ; he said I had wronged him in those things I had written of him , and that coming twice up from the Army , each time he found himself in a Book of mine : I told him I would prove them , and name time and place when and where delivered ; and he was like to be in a third Book ; whereupon hee call'd me Knave , and stincking ●ellow ; I answered him he had abused our Brethren of Scotland , and I told him what I had written I would make good ; and so spake quick and freely to him ; whereupon he said speak not so loud , and threatned to beate me or fall about my eares , saying I spake against the Saints ; I replyed , Paul Best , Wrighter , &c. such Saints , but he made nothing to speak against the Reformed Churches and Presbyterians in his Sermons , and they were no Saints with him ; some other discourse there passed at the same time between us , but no more of it now : And lastly that the Reader may judge of Master Peters by his discourse , I was told it within these few weeks from good hands , upon occasion of pigeons being on a table , that Master Peters at that table spake what a world of pigeo●s they had in New-England , how hee had seen such a flight there , such a ●●mber at once even covering the heavens , and being asked whence they should come , he answered from an Island not far off , which was twenty miles long and three miles broad ; which was so full of pigeons , that the Island was all covered over with pigeons dun● two foot deep . Now as I have given the Reader some passages of his Sermons and discourses , so I will give a taste of the man , by e●tracting a few things out of some of his Pamphlets , and I will begin with his Book call'd Mr Peters last Report of the English Wars , which a great Commander of the Army commonly call's Peters Politicks , upon which I shall make some Observations and Anima●●versions , though breifly . N●w in this Pamphlet entituled Master Peters last report of the English Wars ( which I heartily wish may prove his last Report of the English Wars ) I desire the Reader to observe two things ▪ First , the maine designe and scope of these Answers and Reports : Secondly , the way and manner of managing i● , to make his designe take , not careing how falsly and partially he relates both of himself and others , things manifestly known to be untrue . For his designe and aime , it appeares to stand in these 11. particulars , as I shall point the Reader to the pages all along , where he may find them . 1. He is solicitous and industrious to excuse , take off all blame and fault in every thing from the Sectaries , and from such in the Army accounted of his Religion and way , as appears by these passages among others , page 8. I could adde that we take causam pro non causa , we put our troubles upon Schismaticks and Opinionists , and never attend the true cause . There may shortly be a great change in the Netherlands , but you shall find the cause not in the harmlesse An●baptists , &c. page 2. Only let me be your true Informer , that you had nothing committed then by * ours that had not its rise from integrity and faithfulnesse to the State , accompanied with such skill , as the Lord was pleased to dispense ; and let me tell you , men upon the place ( in such case ) can better judge , then lookers on afa 〈…〉 off . I hope you wil not lose by that bargain in the end , though 〈◊〉 seem for present an ill peniworth . 2. He is carefull to plead for Liberty and a Toleration of Sectaries , being zealous to secure them from all harme and hurt , being such a harmlesse people both in word and deed , as is evident by these passages , page 7 , 8. God useth his own ●edi● o●dy , violence becommeth not Saints : In Popish times the Clergy had not the c 〈…〉 ve power , but subjected the civill Magistrate to do their work , I wish the State keep a good bol● upon that dore : I am confident the chief means to greate● an Error , will be by violence and opposition , when 〈…〉 ghted it dies , Coal● blown get heat & strength , neglected grow cold . I wish every one ●ight be severely punished that spoke against either Presbytery or Independency , till they could define that aright , and distinguish about them and their wayes ; then I beleeve we should have 〈…〉 um silenti●m , page 〈◊〉 1. Let it be our care that after ages may not say we conquered our selves into a new slavery . 3. His designe is in laying together Presbytery and Independency , to advance Independency , and set it on high , and depresse Presbytery in comparison , as in Pag. 7. speaking of Scotland hee saith , It will be their mercy to keep what they have , and ours to be growing up to what wee desire ; and again in the same page , Let the present Church-Government goe on , and walk 〈…〉 ly and tenderly , let those that longed for it improve it , E 〈…〉 at quan●um valere potest ; let others that are godly know , it may help , at least to hew stone , and square timber for a more glorious building , to bring from one extremity to another ▪ Where by the way the Reader may observe , how he puts those that are godly , by way of opposition , to those who longed for the present Church-Government , Let others that are Godly know it may help , as if none that were godly longed for Presbyteriall Government ; as also how contemptibly be speaks of the Presbyteriall Government in comparison of the Independent , in th●se words , It may help at least to hew st 〈…〉 , and square sim 〈…〉 for a m 〈…〉 e glorious building , to bring from one extremity to another , that is , from Prelacy to Independency ; but I can tell Master Peters , that he is deceived in Presbytery , for few that ever entertain that , and improve it , do fall to Independency ; but Independency ( all the world may see ) and I have fully proved it in the First part of 〈…〉 , the fourth Co 〈…〉 lary , that Independent Government is the mother and 〈◊〉 of all Heresies and Errours , and doth not onely help at least , but is the chiefe work man to hew stone , and square timber , for the more glorious building of Anabapti 〈…〉 , Antino 〈…〉 nisme , Libertinisme , yea Scep●ieisme and Atheisme ; and before I conclude this , I desire the Reader to observe , ●ow God hath left this man to wound his own cause with his own pen , and against his will to speak well of Presbyteriall Government , whilst hee was advancing the one and depressing the other , viz. in those words , to bring from one extremity to another , where ●e makes Independency to be the other extreme to Prelacy , and Presbytery to be the medium between them : now all Schollars know , In medio , viz. of extremes , though not of degrees , co 〈…〉 it virtus ; and if Independency be in extremity , it doth o 〈…〉 against the rule , as well as Episcopacy . 4. Master Peters in this his last 〈…〉 port is not only curefull to excuse , protect , and highly dom 〈…〉 end the 〈◊〉 and Opinions of die times , but he is studying of new projects for the propagating and spreading of Sectarisme ( as if it grew not fast enough ) both in this and other Kingdomes , as the Reader may easily observe in these passages : Pag 8. Your demand of my thoughts of England in order to foraign States , I answer with a wish , viz. That forthwith we might have some choice Agents sent out , as two to Sweden , two to the Cantons our good friends , two to the Netherlands , and so to other Parts , as we see cause , and these accompanied with a Manifest of Gods gracious dealings with this State , &c. Now certainly Master Peters must be one , and some other honest godly men , ( which the Presbyterians are not , as appears , by what a little above I observed from Master Peters words ) active Independents of Master Peters acquaintance , as Master H. Master B. Master P. Master T. and others , who together with the Manifest of Gods gracious dealings with this State , may by way of comment and enlarging tell brave stories of the Victories and Conquests of the Independents in Nazeby Field , entring of Cornwall , at Torrington , of taking such and such Towns , Cities , by such and such Colonels and Commanders , when indeed they either never struck a stroke at that time , or were many myles absent , or the work was done to their hands by others , and they only sent for to have the honour to be made Governours , to enjoy the flesh , the skin , and the oyle of the Lion and the Leviathan , when they had their deaths wounds before ; for the proofe of which severall particulars , I could give notable instances most certainly true , confuting the weekly Pamphleters , crying up of some men , and saying nothing of others , and ask where such a one was , and how many strokes he struck at Nazeby Field , and who routed Goring and his Horse in the West about Bridgewater , and drew the modell how to storm Bridgewater , and who routed the Enemy at the entrance into Cornwall , and who reduced Exeter , and Worcester to the last point of extremity , with many particulars about Bristow , and at Oxford , but it shall not need , there are some men in the Army upon the places keep a true account of these things , and in a convenient time will speak , and undeceive the world . And so Master Peters pag. 12. writes thus , How long therefore shall I intreat some three or foure I●inerury Ministers in a County ? Evangelists went out before Churches were setled ; how easily might the Land be in some measure reduced to God , and their own civill Interests , if provision was laid in of this kind ? But you will object , We have about nine thousand Parishes , and not a thousand able men . I answer , You see the need of Itinerants ; and secondly , why may we not follow the practice of other Reformed Churches ? and gather up godly youths our of shops , and send them for improvement somewhere , &c. Master Peters is carefull to propagate his Church-way at home as well as abroad , and that in all haste , and at once to over-spread the Kingdome with it , by his importunity for three or foure Itinerary Ministers in every County to goe over each County , and therefore asks how long he shall intreat , implying this was not the first time ; and indeed the first fruits of these Itinerary Preachers that I can heare of clearly shewes the designe , there being three named who have passed the House of Commons for some parts of Wales , Master Cradock , Master Symonds , Master Walter , or some such name , who are said to be Sectaries , and two of them I know to be such , and decline coming to the Assembly , though appointed by the House of Peers the Assembly should give that House an account of them ; and lest there should not be Independent Preachers enough for this wor● , Master Peters is earnest to have youths gathered out of shops , and sent to Oxford for improvement , and though they fall short in Arts and Tongues to be sent abroad : But by the way let me ask Master Peters , why not some sent to Cambridge , but all to Oxford ▪ This clearly shewes the designe , because Cambridge , all the Colledges in Cambridge are Presbyterian , but at Oxford there being so many preaching Commanders and Officers , they may quickly learn the opinions of the Army , and their way of preaching , and be sent forth with their desperate Principles , destructive both to Church and State. 5. Master Peters cryes up , magnifies , and extolls to the heavens the Commanders in the Army of his Religion and mind , and takes occasion to instance in particular men , as if there were none to be compared with them , as may be seen pag. 6. Fear not the Army whose Commanders ( like Samuel ) can ask any County or Town where they have been , Whose Oxe , or Asse have they taken ? never fewer complaints , nor many men of such quality , whose design is only to obey their Masters , viz. the Parliament ; the ●lighting the Army is their money , triumphant chariors would have broke our necks . So pag. 4. For Worcester , I am sorry so little is spoken of it , where so much worth and gallantry appeared , and indeed I cannot remember where I have seen so much done in so short a time ; foure Regiments of Foot under the command of Colonell Rainborow came , and raised works within Pistoll shot of their Royall Sconce , &c. wherein Lievtenant Colonell Pride , and Lievtenant Colonell Ewers had a chief share , whereupon the Enemy accepts of those Propositions you have seen : and truly I wish Colonell . Ra●nborow a sutable imployment by sea , or land , for both which God hath especially fi●ted him , Foraign States would be proud of such a servant . 6. Weakning and darkning the valour , faithfulnesse and worth of other Commanders , not Independents ( though of the same Army ) and of the other Armies in comparison , relating matters wrong and very partially , for the extolling his own party , as the Reader may observe in the Relation of Worcester , giving to Colonell Whaley only a preparatory part , making a little way for the taking of Worcester , but attributing the glory of the work to Colonel Rainborow now Governor of Worcester , Colonel Pride , &c. speaking thus , pag. 4. Where when that valiant Commander of Horse Colonel Whaley had done his duty , and with the help of Countrey Forces had block up part of the Town , foure Regiments of Foot under the command of Colonell Rainborow came , and raised works , within Pistoll shot , &c. whereas I have been told from good hands , and so I beleeve hath Master Peters before this , of the great wrong and injury he hath done Colonell Whaley in this Relation , Colonell Whaley before ever Colonell Rainborow was sent , having reduced Worcester to the last point , and Worcester being in a such condition then , that there wanted little else tantu●● non , that it was not actually surrendred ; but of this more afterwards . So pag. 6. Feare not that Army whose Commanders like Samuel , never fewer complaints , nor many men of such quality , whose design is only to obey their Masters , viz. the Parliament ; as if no other Army or Commanders like them . And so pag. 10. By the same means the mercy is gained , it may be preserved ; if men , yea good men were instrumentall in the one , they must be in the other ; conside when you see cause to conside , &c. as if no other Armies were means to gain Conques , and Victories but this , nor none other to be trusted to conserve what is won ; and instances in men to be credited with Garrisons who are honest godly English-men , ( he may know by other passages who are his honest godly English-men , viz. Sectaries , and such as are opposite to the Scots ) though differing in opinion , as all France being most Catholike trusts it self to their Protestant Leaders : So would he have all places of strength and command trusted with Independents , Anabaptists , though the Parliament be Presbyterian . 7. The seventh particular in this Pamphlet is , the excessive boasting , trusting in , and omnifying this Army , as if it were omnipotent , able not only for all ends and purposes at home , but to conquer all Christendome , yea the whole world , to goe to Bavaria , Lorain , the Palatinate , Ireland , France , to incounter forraign threatnings , and teach Peasant● to understand Liberty , to secure us against Danes and Saxons , yea to cause the West Indies and the East to offer themselves to our devotion ; the proofe of which the Reader may find pag. 6. Were I perswaded that forraign threatnings were in earnest , I wish this Army might be sent to encounter them , and teach Peasants to understand Liberty , and I would not doubt but to see good fruit of it soon , I would rather our men should live upon their wine , then they upon our beer . So pag. 9 , 10. What you hear of a conjunction between the Prince of Wales and his Lievtenant Generall the Duke of Lorain , with some promises from his Uncle Bavatia , need not trouble you ; the Danes and Saxons never mastered this ●and by power , but by our home-bred distempers . To prevent those fears , let English-men keep to their proper Interests , and Scots to theire , and I know not why we might not mar●ch into Bavaria and Lorain ▪ before they come to us , and make them pay all old Arreares . I must confesse ▪ I am divided between Ireland and the Palatinate , only I quiet my self in this , that we may doe both ▪ And againe , pag. 9. And if our back-doore were well shut at home , how might Euphrates be 〈…〉 yed up ; I meane the West Indies and the East too offer themselves to our devotion . And not only Master Peters , but divers other Sectaries do in a sort deifie this Army ; I beleeve never was there an Army , or rather one sort of men in the Army , viz. Independents and Sectaries , so cryed up in Pulpits , Pamphlets , Speeches , and that to their faces , as this is : I might relate passages out of Sermons , printed Pamphlets of the Saints in the Army , the Independents calling them the strength , preservers , deliverers of the Presbyterians , the instruments under God by which we enjoy all , &c. But I must abreviate and conclude this with a speech lately related to me , of a great man of Master Peters his Religion , that a discourse arising about the great Turk seasing on some of our Merchants goods in Turkis , upon occasion of the difference between King and Parliament ( the Ambassador there being on the Kings side ) and what course there might be to help it , ; he answered to this effect , we had an Army that the terror of it was such , that we needed not to feare the great Turke , but it might go to the gates of Constantinople and demaud right . 8. Master Peters designe is to plead for the keeping this Army on foot still , and that in England for this Winter at least , and to possesse men of the need of it , and to perswade against the disbanding of it by any meanes ; and to work this the more he runnes into praises of the Army and Commanders , of which the Reader may find such passages as these page 6. Your demand about the disposing the Army , is not so proper for a private pen to engage in ; yet this I may say , that other Nations in our condition would think , if they look round about them , and within them , the disb●nding an Army ( if trusty ) ought not to be a work of haste : When the seas are down in England , I think the passage into Ireland will be easier ; and if we can maintain a defensive Warre this Winter , I trust the spring will invite many over thither ; in the meane if these faithfull Commanders were in Garrisons ( without any designe be it spoken ) you have alwayes an Army ready , the private souldier will still runne to his honest and well known Commander , &c. Briefly I say this to your question , that this Army was hardly gotten , and I wish it may be as hardly disbanded ; and so page 10. speaking of preserving the conquests , hee writes thus , By the same meanes the mercy is gained it may be preserved ; if men , yea good men were instrumentall in the one , they must be in the other : And of their praises , that they may not bee disbanded , see page . 5. I find our Souldiers generally in the old forme , rather wondering then boasting , admired by the enemy for their gallantry and Conduct : And page 6. Feare not that Army , whose Commanders ( like Samuel ) can ask any County or Town where they have been , whose Oxe or Asse have they taken . 9. Master Peters closely , but shrewdly strickes at that neer conjunction and union , joynt interest of both Nations as one by vertue of the Covenant in a uniformity of Religion , in Doctrine , Government and Discipline , and labours to divide between them , by hinting passages , to look upon them not as one , but as two Kingdomes , having different interests ; for proof of which the Reader may take notice of these following passages , page 7. Let us remember England as it was never conquered but by faction , so it can never be ruled but by love ; the same Last will not fit an English and a Scottish foot ; they came not suddenly to what they enjoy , and therefore should give England a little breathing over what is propounded ; it will be their mercy to keep what they have , and ours to be growing up to what we desire : So page 10. To prevent those feares let English men keep to their proper interests , and Scots to their● . I would as soon credit a Garrison to a known honest godly English man , differing from me in his opinion , &c. And pray Master Peters why not a known honest godly Scotch-man differing from you in his opinion ; implying a Scotch-man , though a known honest godly man , differing in opinion , you would not trust . 10. Master Peters strickes at the City of London and their Remonstrance page 11. in these passages , speaking of our late enemies , saith , Their highest designe now is to make it Royall ; you may remember how . willing I was once to have made a match , my weaknesse was such , that I did not study whether both parties were well agreed , and my simplicity kept me from thinking of a Corrivall ; and let London know , that if they think a Parliament sits the quieter by being so near them , so 〈◊〉 think when the Parliament doores are shut up at Westminster , their shops will hardly stand open at London . I● the clashing of swords cannot be heard , yet death climbing up their windowes by the increase of the plague , calls for something ▪ And in the same page again , Had the Citizens Remonstrated more about their debts due , and lesse about ▪ their wille , they might have had more thanks , and it may be by this time , some might have kept Orphanes from their doores , that ●ry for the money lent to supply the States use . 11. Mr Peters designe in his Answer to seven Queres is to represent and render himself all along as some great Statesman , and knowing man , a great Traveller , and of great experience , a man beloved of godly men , and respected at home and abroad , a man of great interest in the most Learned and godly men of other Nations , as Master Forbs the Scotchman , Doctor Ames , a man so active as if he did all , and so wise as to give Answer to Queres , and Counsell and Resolution to Parliament men ( as by some passages in these Answers , it should seem this friend was ) in the hardest matters , both of Church and S●ate , a man that could not be missed by the Parliment , or the Army , not spared out of England , and such hints have b●●n given out both in Sermons , and in Speeches . Now the whole frame of the Queres and Answers shewes this to be his ●●me , but more particularly these passages , page ; 4. Master Richard S●●w●y , a Member of the House , who was of our Counsell in this work : I preached at Worcester at our coming in , and did observe a doore open to the Gospel . Master Peters was of the Counsell belike , for taking of Worcester , and the man who preached upon the coming in of the Parliament forces to the Town : And I beleeve he , and others of his followes were of the Councell to get Colonell RSpan● to be sent to take Worcester , when that gallant Colonell Waley had done the deed , that so a Presbyterian might neither enjoy the honour , nor the fruit of his labours : And though I have never been at Worcester , yet upon report of credible persons , I can make another observation then Master Peters upon his preaching at Worcester , and the ●a●●i●on and Government there , viz. instead of a door open to the Gospel , a doore is opened at Worcester to Independency , and to all kind of Sects ; a doore opened for ●lemen● Wrigh●e● that Antiscrip●urist , Sceptick ( spoken so much of in my first part of Gangraena ) to be ●here , and to 〈…〉 i● Heresies and Blasphemies , And I am certainly informed , 〈◊〉 Sectaries are already publike Preachers in the City of Worcester , o● Master 〈◊〉 , who was before at Wa●wick , and ●he Master M 〈…〉 . And so page 6. Master P●ters gives 〈…〉 ll , he ●●s 〈…〉 he Army may be as hardly di 〈…〉 as it was go 〈…〉 , ●e ●●ates the disease of our pre 〈…〉 di 〈…〉 , and prescribes the ●u●e● ; he 〈…〉 directions about sending to forraigne States , page 8. 9. about the ordering of our Counsells , and affaires , page 10. 11. 12. and then in page 13. 14. he comes to a formall discourse concerning himself , where he tells the Reader fine stories of himself ; And if my different judgement offend any , my Answer is , that with much expence of money and time , with diligent inquiry into Reformed Churches , I have taken paines to satisfie my self , and remaine now where I was for substance ●ifte●● years since , resolving by that experience to keep a window open to more light and truth , though scoffed and slighted ; my care hath been to acquaint my self with the most learned and godly in the Country where I travell ; First I lived about six years neer that famous Scotchman , Master John Forbs , with whom I travelled into Germany , and enjoyed him in much love and sweetnesse constantly ▪ from whom I never had but incouragement , though we differed in the way of our Churches . Learned Amesius●reathed ●reathed his last breath into my bosome , who left his Professorship in Freisland , to live with me because of my Churches Independency at Roterdam , and charged me often , even to his death , so to look to it , and if there were a way of publike worship in the world that God would own , it was that : He was my Collegue and chosen Brother to the Church where I was an unworthy Pastor ; and I thank the Lord such a Church it continues to this day ; that truly I slightly took up nothing in that kind , nor did I loose all my seven years being in New-England , amongst those faithfull , learned , godly Brethren , whose way of worship if we professe , it will not be groundlesse , when their wri●ings are examined . And so much for Master Peters designe in his last Report of the English Wars . The second maine thing in his Pamphlet , is , the manner and way he takes to effect his designe and aime the better , which though at first view it be seemingly carried in severall phrases , with a great deale of moderation to the Presbyterians , and a desire of propagating the Gospel , Religion , Piety , ( the name of God , Religion , and preaching being often spoken of ) and of maintaining , yea inlarging the glory of the English Nation , and the Rights and Liberties of the Subject : Yet indeed 't is written and calculated for the Meridian of Independency and Secta●isme , in every particular of it , so as there is not one passage in it but I could easily reduce to that Praedicament , and draw all the lines to that center , clearly shewing 'tis for the advancing of that party ; which that he may do the man cares not what hee writes ; but instead of a faire , full , open , true Relation of things , he writes very partially in some things , falsly in other things , hypocritically and doubly in most ; and were I at leasure to write Animadversions on every line of this Pamphlet , and give a full Answer to it , laying one thing to another , I could discover many mysteries of iniquity in it , and shew it to be exceeding pernicious both to Church and State , and very prejudiciall to the League and Union between the Kingdomes , and such a peece of Politicks , that in this juncture of things , an Arch-Jesuite if he were imployed to write , would make much such another . I shall give some instances . First , his Relation of Worcester businesse is very partiall , much wronging that gallant Gentleman , Col. Whaley , giving the honour of reducing Worcester to others , who hath deserved better at the hand ▪ of Master Peters and some others , then to be so served . This Gentleman did very great service at Naseby Field ; this Gentleman reduced that strong Castle of Banbury , besides many other gallant services that he hath done ; but because he is a Presbyterian , and an Antilibertine ; therefore others who never did that worke at Worcester , nor in Naseby Field , &c. must have the honour of his labours , and must enter upon them , reaping that which hee hath sowed with much faithfulnesse , valour , hazards . The relation of this businesse of Worcester is so partiall ( that 's the best can be said of it ) that I have been informed from persons of much worth and trust , that when Col. Whaley read it , he went to a great Commander of the Army , speaking to this purpose , do you not see how Peters hath abused and wronged me , and shall he be suffer'd ? well , if I meet him , I will cane him soundly ; and a Commander of the Army told in some company to a Lieutenant Colonell , a great Sectary , that he had heard , Colonell Whaley wherever he met Master Peters , would cane him , if not cut him , for his relation of Worcester businesse . Secondly , speaking of Schismaticks and Opinionists , he instances in Anabaptists , and calls them the harmelesse Anabaptists , which is a false Epithite given to them ; for what Sect or fort of men since the Reformation this hundred years have been more harmfull ; surely Master Peters cannot but have read or at lest heard of the Tumults , Wars , Tragedies , Out-rages , Rapes , raised and committed by the Anabaptists in severall parts of Christendome , especially in Germany and M●●ster . Sl●idan , Bullinger , Schluselburgius , Horlensius , Guido de Bres , with many others , have laid these open to the world : And if we look upon our Anabaptists at home , and consider what many of them have done and do dayly ; how can we call them harmlesse ? Are they harmlesse who in contempt of Baptisme have pissed in the Font , have fecht a horse into the Church and baptiz'd it ? Who assault with violence godly Ministers , put them out of their Pulpits by force , openly affront them , and invade their Pulpits whether they will or no : Who make tumults and riots in Countries ▪ Who kill tender young persons and ancient with dipping them all over in Rivers , in the depth of Winter : Who give out that they will never lay down their swords whilst ther 's a Priest in England : Who write and print libells , full stuffed with invectives and seditious speeches against the Right Honourable House of Peers , undoubtedly a Court of Record , the highest Court of Iudicature in this Kingdome : Who make wicked libells and spread them abroad of Noble men , and persons of great place by name , as that religious and Noble Earle of Manchestor , the Lord Major of London , a whole Kingdome , as Scotland , and a whole City , as London : Who have endeavored and do by all wayes to involve these Kingdomes into a new War , more deadly and destructive then the former . And yet Anabaptists of our times are guilty of all these and many more , as the Reader may sind proved in this Book , and divers others written in these times . Thirdly , speaking of himself he saith , He remaines now where he was for substance fifteen years since , which I cannot judge to bee true , no nor that he is the same for substance which he was seven years agoe ; and because I will be brief I will put but one question to Master Peters , and that is , whether fifteen years or but seven years agoe ●e was for a Toleration of ●ll sorts of Sects , Anabaptists , Antinomians , Seekers , Papists , &c. and thought so lightly of Errors and Heresies as now he does ; or whether he ever did , or durst in New-England in the time of Anabaptists and Antinomians growing there , preach such Sermons for a Toleration of them , and speake so favourably of them , as he hath done , and doth here ? I am of the mind if any man should have told him fifteen , or seven years agoe , Master Peters , the time shall come , that you shall live in a Kingdome where all damnable Heresies and wicked doctrines shall be vented , by printing , preaching , and you shall be so farre from seeking to suppresse and hinder them , as that you shall make nothing of them , preach for a Toleration of them , cry them up for Saints who hold them , plot , act , ride , work night and day for the upholding of them ; he would have been very angry , boisterous , and have said , as Hazael to the Prophet , Am I a dog that I should do these things ? nay , I am so well perswaded of Mr Peters , that he was so farre fifteen years agoe from being of these opinions and running these wayes , that I am confident 't is but a few years agoe since he is fallen thus ; and that the two things that have poysoned him , are his being in the Army , and his converse with some wicked Politicians of these times , who upon matter of worldly interest , being men of small and broken estates , that they may be great and the Heads of a great party , countenance and patronize all kind of abominable Sectaries ; not caring what becomes of Religion , and who prophesies falsly , so they may beare rule by that meanes . Fourthly , Speaking of turning his cheek to the smiter , hee saith with Jeremy , though he neither borrowes nor lends , &c. yet this may be his portion : Now I wonder he can say so , when a● his hand hath been against every man , medling with all sorts of men , a Polupragmaticall , medling in the Armies with many , abusing the Common Councell and the City of London , the Assembly , the Reformed Churches , our Brethren of Scotland , Committees , the King and his children , and indeed who not : I could name particular persons of both Houses of whom he hath spoken his pleasure , who have deserved a great deale better of him . Fifthly , There is an unjust and scandalous passage , pag. 11. reflecting upon the City and their Remonstrance , as if they remonstrated about their wills , and not about things needfull , and just grievances ; and as if the increase of the plague upon the City , were for any neglect towards the Parliament ; whereas I would have Master Peters know and all his party , the City of London could not do lesse , and have but done their duty ; the Reformed Churches , Scotland , the body of this Kingdome , and all who are not Independents and Independentish , doe bear witnesse of the faithfulnesse of this City to the cause of God and the Parliament ; and this Remonstrance was so farre from being a matter of meer will ( as Master Peters words import ) that I am of the mind , and I beleeve not alone in it , that it will never be well with England , till the City of London , the Ministry of the Kingdome , and all the Counties as one man make a plainer Remonstrance , in a more particular way and manner , of all the growing mischiefs and abominations in Church and Common-wealth , desiring a speedy and effectuall redresse of them . And as for his hinting the cause of the increase of the plague to come from the City Remonstrance , or want of the Cities full consent to a match with the Parliament , I dare boldly say of him , in ●o saying , He is a false Prophet , a dreamer of dreams , speaking the visions of his own heart , and declaring false burdens ; and do offer from the word of God to make it good against Master Peters , that if the City of London would oftner Remonstrate and Petition in this kind , and use the power they have by their Charter and the Lawes in force , to punish Hereticks and Sectaries , and disturb their meetings , the plague would sooner be removed from them . Sixthly , That also is a false and untrue Assertion , That the design of the Army is onely to obey their Masters the Parliament ; the slighting the Army is their money , triumphant chariots would have broke our necks , understood in Master Peters sense , viz. of that part of the Army the Sectaries ; for if it were so as he speak● ; what means the bleating of the sheep , and the lowing of the oxen that I and many others hear ? If their only design be to obey their Masters the Parliament , what 's the reason they break , conte 〈…〉 their Ordinances , viz. that against m●ns preaching not ordained Ministers , that for the better observing of the Monethly Fast , those for the setling of Presbyteriall Government ? &c. What means those speeches of some of them , If they knew the Countries mind , as well as the Countries might know theirs , they would have another kind of Reformation then the Parliament is about ; that they have not so long fought for liberty and now to be enslaved ; with many such like . And if the slighting of the Army is their money , and triumphant chariots would have broke their necks , certainly they have then had little pay , and their necks would have been broken long before now ; for never was Army better provided for , since these warres , with moneys , recruits , all kind of things ; and many particular men , speciall persons of that party , which Master Peters counts the Army , have been well rewarded over and above pay , &c. And for triumphant chariots , there have been men on purpose employed to provide them triumphant chariots weekly , to carry them throughout the Kingdom , and forraign parts , in the weekly newes books , wherein they have been lifted up to heaven in praises , reports of victories , other mens valiant acts attributed to them , and they upon all occasions pleaded for , excused , and fair glosses put upon the ●oulest actions of any Commanders and Souldiers of that party ; so that a man would wonder Master Peters should write thus , but that he will say any thing , if it be for the Sectaries ; and they who know the man and his manner , what stories he hath told in Pulpits of ba●●ells that he hath been in , and how many victories have been atchieved , will never marvell at what he writes here . Seventhly , For that Master Peters speaks of Master Forbes and Am 〈…〉 s , of that constant sweetnesse and incouragement in the one towards him , and of the speeches of the other to him even to his death , I much doubt of the truth of them , and that upon these grounds : However Master Forbes might be great with him before ●e declared himself for Independency and the Church-way , yet I have been told from a godly understanding Minister who lived many years in Holland , and that in the time of Master Peters being there , both before he was looked upon as an Independent , and 〈…〉 wards , viz. all the time till he went to New England , that when Master Forbes by the power of the Bishops faction was put by his place of Minister to the Merchant Adventures at Roterdam , he would have received the Lords Supper at Master Peters Church ( Master Peters Independency or Church-way not being visible then ) but Master Peters offering to put upon him or requiring some of his Church-way devices , spake something to Master Forbes of things in that kind , which Master Forbes nece●ted with so much indignation and scorn , ( knowing what love and ●espect he had shown to Master Peters , and what experience Master Peters had had of him , and that now besides all his sufferings in Scotland , he was put by all in Holland , for refusing the Ceremonies and the Bishops wayes ) that now being deprived both of Ministry and Sacraments , and coming to Master Peters as his great friend , he should offer to question him of his state of grace , or propound his Independent 〈…〉 icks to him before he could be admitted , that he spake very sharply to him , telling him in these words , or to this effect , He would not come to the Lords Supper with him if he would have ●im , nor have communion with a man in such a way : And I beleeve there was little love or sweetnesse passed between them afterwards , or little incouragement that Master Peters ever after had from that learned and godly Scotch-man . And as for the story he tells of learned Amesius , ( for no other end as I know but to gain credit to himself and the Church-way ) I much question that he should speak so of the Independent way , and give such a charge about it ( as Master Peters relates ) as also that he left his Professorship in Frizland to live with Master Peters mee●ly upon that reason , because of his Churches Independency , and my grounds of doubt are these : First , Because in Doctor Amesius his Works I find Principles against the Independency of Churches , as in his Book of Cases of Conscience , * the fourth Book , cap. 29. in answer to that question , Who have the power of Excommunicating ? Among others who have power , he saith , Synods and Classes when any difficulty ariseth , have a power to declare and decree , who they be that ought to be excommunicated . 〈◊〉 in his Medull● Theologie 〈…〉 , the first Book , Chap. 39. having spoken of a particular Church , he comes in with this Cantion or Proviso , Notwithstanding particular Churches , as their communion requires , the light of nature , the equity of rules and examples of Scripture teach , may , and also often ought to enter into a mutuall confederation and association among themselves in Classes and Synods , that they may use the common consent and help , as much as conveniently can be , especially in all those things which are of greater moment . I 〈◊〉 also in Amesius his Works many passages against other Principles of the Independent way , at the use of * Suspension from the Lords Supper to goe before Excommunication , which is denyed by the Independents ; with many others . Now the writings of men are more to be regarded and beleeved , then the words of such a man as Master Peters , especially in favour of his own cause . Secondly , For Doctor Ames leaving his Professorship in Frizland to live with Master Peters at Roterdam , I will not deny that , but I doe deny that it was because of his Churches Independency ; it was upon other reasons , and of this I can give the Reader some good account : ( and I must acknowledge it as a providence of God , that I many years agoe by reason of my intimate acquaintance with the eminentest and godliest men of those times , and with the prime of those who are now turned Independents , did hear and know many things of all sorts of godly men , both at home and abroad , in Holland , England , New-England , which I then little thought I should ever have had any use of , but since have been , and are of great use in answering Independents , when they come and tell the world stories of themselves , which men know not how to disprove them : ) Doctor Ames ( as I have been told from grave godly Ministers ) for many years before he died was weary of his place in Frizland , and would fain have had some place in England ; he moved and propounded it to some , that if he could but have any living or place to preach in ( though in a remote Village ) without using the Ceremonies and being put upon subscription , he would take it , for he had a mind to give himself to preaching , and to enjoy the society of English Christians and Ministers , and was weary because of that dulnesse and different way , in regard of the practicall power of godlinesse he found among those he lived with there , and the godly English , whom he in the former part of his life had been acquainted with ; and therefore divers years before there was any thought or speech of Independent Churches or this way , he moved for a place in England , and would faine have left his Professorship in Frizeland : And I am ready to depose I have been told this by one or more godly Ministers of great note . 'T is sufficiently known I was well acquainted with Doctor Preston , Doctor Sibs , Master Bouls Doctor Prestons Tutor , Doctor Taylor , Doctor Staughton , &c. and from some of these I had it ; and I remember I have been in company with Doctor Ames , at Doctor Prestons lodging , who after the death of King James , coming to England , and to Cambridge , I heard him preach there , and well remember the Sermon and Text , Jude , vers . 20 , 21. but times in England growing worse and worse , there being no hope for such a man as he here , being weary of his Professorship in Frizland , was willing to be Minister of an English Church in Holland since he could not obtain it in England ; and I make no question , if Doctor Ames could have been assured of a comfortable place for people and maintenance in England , without Ceremonies and Subscription , he would have taken a Parish Church in England , before he would have gone to Master Peters at Roterdam ; but if upon his coming to Roterdam there was any such change ( as Master Peters speaks of ) that he was really turned to be an Independent , and of the Church-way , and would have carried on that way with Master Peters , it was the mercy of God to him to take him away just upon his removing , and new coming to Roterdam , before he had appeared actually engaged in that way , or written for it ; because his name and authority , being a learned man , might have swayed the more with many ; and we see Master Peters makes use of his name to credit that cause thirteen years after , notwithstanding that he died upon the borders and entrance into it , before any notice was ever taken by the Reformed Churches of any such thing ; though I much question whether or no in his latter time there was any such change as Master Peters speaks of . Eighthly , Master Peters writes many things hypocritically , which he and his party neither practices , nor intends ; but a snake lies under the green grasse , as that of a door open for the Gospel , and of Itinerary Ministers in a County three or foure , which is for no other end but to leaven the whole Kingdome with Independency , and to fore-stall Presbytery from being setled ; as that of almost lost liberty , the English being ruled by love , as cautions about a new slavery , and wishes of all marks of slavery to be taken off , when as 't is evident he and his party mean by liberty , a freedome to hold what they will , and to be under no Church-Government ; and that he and his party are the greatest means in all places for keeping up all those things , which the people have used to account marks of slavery , and against English liberty ; as that of walking plainly in your Councells ; God preserveth the simple , as speaking against Arcana Imperii , deep-set counsells of men , &c. whereas he and his party have and doe practise quite contrary , having deep-set counsells , using all Machivillian tricks to undermine men , looking one way and rowing another ; which is so evident that all men speak of it , and whereof I have given in my former Books many instances , under that head of the practices of the Sectaries . Epiphanius resembles Hereticks to Moul● , who doe all their mischief by working under ground ; but if once they be above ground they are weak and contemptible creatures ; just such are our Independents and Sectaries , they have done all , and still doe by their under-hand working , but if they would play above board , speak plainly what they would have , and not hide themselves , we should quickly take them all . Many other particulars I might observe in the manner and way of carrying on his designs , secretly laid down in these Answers , as also I had thought to have made some Animadversions and Observations upon his Sermon preached at Christ-Church , and another * printed pamphlet of his , but because I have enlarged already , and perceive I shall exceed the number of sheets I at first intended when I fell upon writing this Third Part of Gangraen● , therefore I shall forbeare any more of this kind for present . I have given the Reader some account of Master Peters in his Writing , Preaching , and Discourses ; it remains I should speak of him in his Actings , what hand he hath had in promoting severall Petitions in City and Country , in favour of the Sectaries ; as that Anti-Petition ( commonly so called ) framed presently after the City Remonstrance , which was carried up and down the City by his man , to get hands to it ; what meetings he hath been at severall times , at severall places , as at the Nags-head , as in Coleman-street , &c. what Countries and places he hath ridden to , to get Burgesses for Parliament ; what persons of worth hee hath complained of to some in Authority , whereby they have been sent for , and taken off their imployment in such places ( the thing aimed at in it ) and yet the things never proved , but the quite contrary proved ; what great summes of money , with other gifts , besides two hundred pounds per annum for him and his heires , lawfully begotten , which hee by his stirring and acting hath obtained ; but I shall speake no more of him now , but reserve what I have further to say , unto a Fourth Part of Gangr●na . There is one Master Feake an Independent named in page 81. of this Book , of whom because when I writ that sheet I had not my full profe of particulars as I desired , I passed him over lightly till another time , but having since received full and particular information of him , I think at good to pay my debt of promise sooner then I made account of : This Master Feake within this twelve months was Preacher in London , and hath preached many strange and odd things at Peters in Cornhill , besides Wool-Church , and other places , as for separation from our Assemblies , expressing many heterodox things about mixed Communion at the Lords Supper , against maintenance of Ministers by Tythes ; and in Sermons and Prayers hath had many s●ings at the Assembly ; but now is Preacher in the Town of Hartford ( the shire Town ) and in the greatest Parish and Church of that Town , viz. All-Saints ; being put into a Sequestrated Living , by the power of some of the Independent partie in that Town , without the approbation of the Assembly , having never been with the Assembly ; according to the Order of the Honour . House of Commons , nor with the Committee of Plundred Ministers neither , ( as I beleeve ) who use to send those that come to them for Sequestrated Livings to the Assembly , before they grant them power and interest in such places . As for his carriage at Hartford , where he hath preached since last January , it hath been as followes . His preaching and praying shewes him no friend to the Assembly nor to the Directory : he hath never used the Lords Prayer since he came thither , but hath preached against the use of it as a prayer . 'T is observed of him by understanding men his Auditors , that they never heard him appoint or sing a Psalme , he reades but one Chapter or a peece of a Chapter ; he hath not baptized any since his coming . One of the Committee , a Justice of Peace , put up some Articles against him at the Assizes at Hartford , to both Judges then on the Bench ; The first was this That Christ would destroy not only unlawfull Government , but lawfull Government , not only the abuse , but the use of it ; and as he had begun to destroy it in England , so would he by raising combustions in the bowells of France and Spaine ; and that he would destroy Aristocracy in Holland , for Tolerating Arminianisme : When he denyed the words , one being present , and asked , affirmed him to have preached thus ; and there are foure others , understanding men and of good worth will testifie the same . Then Master Feake explained himself before the Judges , that there was in Monarchie and Aristocracy an enmity against Christ , which he would destroy ; and as he was speaking some turbulent fellowes and Sectaries , clambred up by the Bench , and cryed out my Lord , my Lord , Mr Pr. doth it in malice , we will maintaine our Minister with our bloud ; whereupon the Judge threw away the paper , and said he would heare no more of it , though he had before commanded Master Eldred , to read openly all those Heterodoxies . The Lords day following , Master Feake in the Pulpit endeavored to answer all the Articles put up against him to the Judges , in a great Auditory . Many other things I have heard of him since his coming to Hartford ; but what I here set down of him , besides the relation I have had by word of mouth of persons of worth , 't is given me under hand in writing , and that with this seale set to it , what I have here written I will justifie , and much more when I am called to it . There is one Richard Overton a desperate Sectary , one of Lilburnes Breed and followers , who hath printed many scandalous things against the House of Peers , and notice being given of him , there was an Order granted for the taking of him , and seasing of his Presse ( a Presse that had printed many wicked Pamphlets , that have come out of late , against the King , the Lords , the Presbyteriall Government , the City , and for a Toleration , and Liberty , destructive to all Religion ▪ Lawes and Government , yea overthrowing by the principles laid down in them , the * power of the House of Commons , whilst they seeme to cry up and invest that House with the Monopoly of all the power of the Kingdome ) who being apprehended by the Messengers sent out for him , was brought before a Committee of the House of Lords , where he refused to answer any questions , and carried himself with a great deale of contempt and scorne , both in words and gesture ; and after this being brought before the House of Lords , he refused to answer any questions propounded by the Speaker as in the name of the House , and to that question , whether he were a Printer or no , hee would not answer , but told them he was resolved not to make answer to any interrogatories that should infringe his propertie , right or freedome in particular , or the rights , freedomes , and properties of the Nation in generall : Besides he gave saucie and peremtory words to the House of Lords ; and appealed from the House of Lords to the House of Commons ; whereupon the Lords committed him to Newgate , as he most justly deserved : Now since his commitment to Newgate , there are some wicked railing Pamphlets come out in his name , and sold openly ; Pamphlets venting a company of cursed principles , both against Religion and civill Government , tending to nothing else but the overthrow of the fundamentall constitution of this Kingdome , in King , Lords , and Commons , and setting up the body of the common people , as the Soveraigne Lord and King ; denying King and Lords any power , and the House of Commons any further then the peoples Deputies , and at the pleasure of and will of the people , and to the ruine of Religion , by pleading against the Ordinance for punishing Blasphemies and Heresies . The first Book of this Overtons , is call'd A defence against all Arbitrary Vsurpations of the House of Lords , and a Relation of their unjust and barbarous proceedings against that worthy Commoner ( stiling himself so . ) The second is , An Arrow against all Tyrants and Tyranny , shot from the prison of Newgate , into the Prerogative Bowe●s of the Arbytrary House of Lords , by Richard Overton Prerogative Archer to the Arbitrary House of Lords . The third is , A Petition and Appeale to the House of Commons , calling them the High and mighty States , the most Soveraigne House , and himself their leigo Petitioner : In all which he most audaciously and unsu●●erably abuses the House of Lords , charging them with Tyranny , ●surpation , invading the Liberties of the people , denying them all legislative power , desiring due reparations against them , scoffing and scorning them and their power , descanting upon by way of con●utation the Order of the House of Lords for his commitment ; and stirring up the House of Commons , and all the people , against the House of Lords , to free the people from their oppressions , tyrannies , &c. I will give the Reader a taste of this Anabaptisticall spirit , by transcribing a few passages out o● these wicked and cursed Pamphlets . In page 5. of his de●iance against the Lords , he speaks to English-men thus . Ye in speciall be encouraged against all opposition and incroachment of Kings , Lords , or others , upon the House of Commons , their rights and properties derived from the people . And acknowledg none other to be the supreame Court of Judicature of this Land , but the House of Commons ; and in this gall●●t resolution live and dye , and acquit your selves like men : For my part I 'le trea● upon the hottest coales of fire and veng●ance that , that parcell of men , intituled the House of Lords , can blow upon me for it . Page 15. 17. He makes the Lords to be s●bordinate and subject to the Commons , the great Representors of the Land ; and calls the Knights and Burgesses Assembled the upper House , and the Judges of the House of Peers as well as his . Page 19. 20. speaking of the power of the Commons , hath these words ; Therefore these Lords being none of the peoples Vicegerents , Deputies or Representors , cannot legally passe upon any of the Represented , to 〈…〉 y , sentence , fine , or imprison ; but such their actions ( exceeding the soveraigne compasse ) must needs be illegall , and Antimagistraticall ; and therefore as by that soveraigne power confer'd from the people upon the House of Commons , I made my appeales to the said House , refusing altogether to submit unto that usurpation of the Lords over the peoples properties , &c. In the same page speaking of the House of Lords , in a scoffing manner , faith , Their Lordships might do well to send me to Doctor Bastwicks School of complements , that I might have a little more venerable Courtship against the next time I appeale in their presence . In page 17. 18. relating how the whole House of Lords derided him , upon his refusing to answer the questions of the speaker of the Right Honourable House of Pee●s , he sets down that he replyed to them ; Gentlemen it doth not become you thus to deride me that am a prisoner at you● Barre ; And thereupon speakes of the House of Lords , such ca●riage , such Court ; for indeed Comedies , Tragedies , Masks and Playes , are farre more fit , for such idle kind of men . In page 6. Overton speaking of the House of Lords , writes thus ; And these are further to let them know , that I bid defiance to their injustice , usurpation and tyranny , and s●●rne even the lest connivance , glimpse , jot , or tittle of their favour . Let them do as much against 〈…〉 e by the rule of Equity , Reason and Justice , for my testimony and protestation against them in this thing , as possibly they can , and I shall be content and rest . In this Arrow against all Tyrants , written ( as it seems ) to some Member of the House of Commons ; page 6. he writes thus , Sir , We desire your help for your own sakes , as well as ours , cheifly for the removall of two most insufferable evills daily encroaching and increasing upon us , portending and threatning inevitable destruction , and confusion of your selves , of us , and of all our posterity , namely , the encroachments and usurp●tions of the House of Lords , over the Commons liberties and freedomes , together with the barbarous , inhumane , blood-thirstie desires and endeavours of the Presbyterian Clergy . O the desperate wickednesse of this man , and some other Sectaries ! who have writ such like passages against the Lords , and the Ministers ▪ and that for no other cause , as appeares by this Pamphlet and divers others ( themselves being witnesses ) but because the Lords questioning some men for printing the most abominable , sedicious , cursed libells , against all Royall Authority , and the fundamentall ●awes and Government of this Kingdome , that ever in any age were published , and they in the most unparralleld manner , ( of which I beleeve no presidents can bee shewn in any Chronicles or histories of this Kingdome ) carrying themselves contempruously and scornfully , they committed them to prison ; and because an Ordinance to punish damnable Blasphemies and Heresies hath been brought into the House of Commons , by two worthy Members , and that by the pr●curement of the Clergie ( as the Pamphlet saith . ) Now for what the Lords have done against Lilburne , O●erton , Larner , and such f●llowes , in labouring to suppresse ●uch ●editious Presses , in punishing them ; as also in their speedy admitting into their House , and thankfull acceptance of the Remonstrances and Petitions of the City of London , County of Lancashi 〈…〉 , &c. And for what Master T●●t , and Master Bacon have done in presenting such an Ordinance against Blasphemies and Heresies , they are highly accou●●ed of by all the godly and Orthodox Ministers and people in City and Country , and their names will be famous in all generations ; when the names of Lilburne , Overton , &c. yea and of all their great Patrons , whether in the Army , or out of the Army , will be a by-word and a curse , and canonized in the Kalen●●r of such Saints , as John of Leyden , Thomas Muncer , K●ipperdoll●●g , &c. In page 10. of this poysoned Arrow , Overton writes th●s ; Why therefore should you of the Representative body sit still , and suffer these Lords to devoure both us and our Lawes ? Be awakened , arise and consider their oppressions and encroachments , and stop their Lordships in their ambitious career , for they doe not cease only here , but they soare higher and higher , and now they are become Arrogators to themselves of the naturall Soveraignty the Represented have convayed and issued to their proper Representors , even challenge to themselves the title of the supremest Court of Judicature in the Land , as was claimed by the Lord Hounsden when I was before them ; which challenge of his was a most illegall , Anti-Parliamentary , audacious presumption , &c. Behold , Reader , this wicked Sectary labours to set the House of Commons against the House of Lords , to make division between them : All the hopes of these sonnes of division lie in breaches , which they f●ment all kind of wayes , and in all kind of things wherein there is union ; as between the Houses , the Scots and ●he Parliament , the Parliament and the City , the Parliament and the Ministry of the Kingdom : They have no hopes but in wars , fishing in troubled wa●ers & keeping all things in confusion , & from being setled . In pag. 11 , 12 , hee speaks thus , Therefore the soveraign power extending no further then from the Represented to the Representors , all this kind of soveraignty challenged by any , whether of King , Lords , or others , is usurpation , illegitimate and illegall , and none of the kingdomes or peoples , neither are the people thereto oblieged : Thus , Sir , seeing the Soveraign or Legislative power is only from the Represented to the Representors , and cannot possibly further extend , the power of the King cannot be Legislative , but only Executive , and he can communicate no more then he hath himselfe ; and the Soveraign power not being inherent in him , it cannot be convayed by , or derived from him to any : so that his meer Prerogative creatures cannot have that which their lord and creator never hath had , or can have , namely the Legislative power . Many other strange passages there are , both in his Pamphlets , and Petition and Appeale , made up of intolerable Arrogancy , Impudency , and Anarchy , point blanck against the Fundamentall constitution of the Government of this Kingdom ; but by these the Reader may judge of the whole , ex ung●e leonem ; and so I leave him to the justice of the House of Lords . There is one John Lilburn an Arch Sectary , the great darling of the Sectaries , highly extolled and magnified by them in many Pamphlets ; called , The Defender of the Faith , A Pearle in a Dung-hill , That Worthy Sufferer for his Countries Liberty ; this Worthy man , ( a precious Jewell indeed ) of whom I had thought to have given a full Relation in this Book , and to have laid him open in all his colours , by following him from place to place , and shewing how time after time he hath behaved himself since he came out of his Apprenticeship , as by declaring what set him first on work to print Books against the Bishops , how hee carried himselfe in the Fleet whilst he was Prisoner there , how since this Parliament both before the warres begun and since the warres , how whilst hee was Prisoner at Oxford , how in the Earle of Manchestors Army , how in the City at many meetings about Petitions since he left the warres , how before the Committee of Examinations , how the first 〈◊〉 he was in Newgate by order of the House of Commons , how hee behaved himselfe before the House of Lords , and how the second time of his imprisonment in Newgate , and how since his last commitment to the Tower ; but because this Narration alone will take up some sheets , there being many remarkable things to be written of him , of his insolent loose ungodly practices , and of his Anarchicall Principles , destructive to all Civill Government whatsoever , and I have already filled up that number of sheets I a● first intended when I resolved to write this Third Part , ( though I have many things yet to put in this Third Part ) therefore I must de●erre it till a Fourth Part , and shall then by the help of God doe it so largely and fully , that I shall make his folly and wickednesse known to all men , and vindicate the honour and power of the House of Peers from his , and all the Sectaries wicked Libells ; shewin● the weaknesse of those Principles , That all power in Government is founded upon the immediate free election of all those that are to be Governed , And of a necessity that all who are to be subject and obey must be represented , And that all who have power in Government must be Representers ; which I shall doe for the vindication of the just Legall power of the King , the House of Lords , yea and of the Commons ; undertaking to make it good , that according to the Sectarian Principles now vented in so many Books daily , and so much countenanced by too many , the power and priviledge of the House of Commons would be overthrowne and cut short , as well as the Kings and Lords : For instance , ( to say nothing of that , that the Commons power is not only by being chosen by the severall Counties and Townes , but by the vertue of Writs under the Great Seal , and by vertue of Lawes and Rules , according to which the severall Electors must goe , or else their Elections give them no power at all ; ) If this Principle were true , the House of Commons should have no power over me , nor over many thousands more in the Kingdome , and we might all say the same things to the House of Commons , which Lilburne , Overton , and all the Sectaries say to the House of Lords ; for we never chose them , had no voyces in their Elections , they are not our chosen ones , as the Sectaries say of the Lords ; I and many Ministers of the Kingdome , with hundred thousands of people who have not so much free land per annum , are excluded from election of Knights of the Shires , and not being free-men of Towns , have no voyces in choyce of Burgesses , and so may refuse subjection to their Orders , resist their Officers who come with their Warrants , and refuse to live by the Lawes they make , as not being chosen by us , who no question are the greatest number of persons in the Kingdom ; ( I beleeve there are more men of years of understanding without so much free land per annum , then there are those who have so much : ) Besides , if this Principle were true , That all subjection and obedience to persons and their Lawes stood by vertue of electing them , then besides all non-free-holders exempted from the Jurisdiction of the House of Commons , all women at once were exempt from being under Government , and all youths who were under age at the beginning of this Parliament six years ago ( though now men ) and had no voyces in the choyce of Parliament men ; yea , if this Parliament sit many years longer , all those who were boyes and children , when they come to years of understanding must be exempt too , as having had no voyces in election ; nay yet further , so weak a Principle this is , upon which the Sectaries would overthrow all the power of the King and Lords , and give all power to the Commons , that if it were true , none were bound to any obedience of those Knights and Burgesses whom they chose not , but opposed with all their might , so that by this rule all Free-holders in each County who dissented from him that was chosen , should not submit to that man , but set him up whom they have chosen ; and though there be four hundred Members in the Com. House , yet they who have voyces in chusing , and they whose voyces carry it for such a man , because they chuse but one or two , viz. in that County where they live and have estates , therefore they should be subject only to the determinations of those two men ; but for all the rest , they chuse them no more then they do the House of Lords : And yet further , if this Principle were good , that subjection and obedience is due from none , and to none , but those who are chosen and represent , all strangers who come into or live for a time in a Kingdome , when sent for upon suspitions or reall crimes , may answer the House of Commons , What have they to do with them , they chose them not , they gave them no power over them , they are not their Representors : And last of all , upon this Principle , all we who are born within this fifty , sixty , or seventy years , may refuse obedience and subjection to all the Lawes made by Parliaments before we were born , or by such Parliaments whereof we chose not the Members ; and when men clip money , and counterfeit coyn , or men steal horses , and are sent for by Justices , and brought to the Bars , they may with as much reason , and more appeal from those Courts of Justice , because they never chose these men that made such Lawes , nor ever consented to them , as Lilburne , Overton , Larner , &c. did from the Lords , to the present House of Commons , their Representors , their chosen ones , &c. and I dare undertake to shew , that all those seeming Arguments and rambling Discourses in Overtons and Lilburnes Books , have as much strength for justifying all Delinquents appeals from those Lawes , made so many years agoe , and Judges going according to them , as for their declining the House of Lords . Many other instances I could give of those who have by the Lawes of England , and other Kingdomes , power of Government , and that most justly , without any immediate election of the people , and persons to be governed by them ; so that we must look for some other foundations and grounds of giving one man , or more , power in Government over all besides this immediate Election , and Representation , which will be found firm and strong , and which indeed give the force to Election , and which in severall cases , without any immediate Election of the present persons to be governed , binds them before God and men to obedience and subjection in all lawfull things , and according to the Lawes ; but I must de●errre the giving of more Instances about Election , with the Reasons thereof , and of laying downe the just grounds of lawfull Authority and Power of one man , or many , and of one and many , without any immediate Election either of a part , or of the whole present people , till the Fourth Part of Gangraena ; only I will adde two things , First , to shew the Witnesses do not agree , but the great Leaders of the Sectaries di●fer among themselves in this point , yea the same men , as Lilburn , and the Authors of those Pamphlets , Englands Birth-right , &c. Secondly , propound some Queres to Lilburne , Overton , Larner , and the rest of that generation to consider of in the mean time . For the first , However that Lilburne , Overton , and the Sectaries use the House of Lords thus , denying them power over Commoners , and a Legislative power , with an Interest in saving the Kingdome , and put all the whole Supreme power upon the Commons , making the House of Lords stand for a Cypher , because not chosen by the common people as the Knights and Burgesses , yet till wit● in this year and an half , they in writings and actions declared the contrary , viz. before the recruit of the House of Commons with new Members , and the successe of the new Modell , as is evident by many * Pamphlets written before , wherein they abused the House of Commons , and particular Members , crying out of them for making the free subjects slaves , and for ruling in an arbitrary way , as much as they do now of the House of Lords ; yea the Lords are pleaded for and cryed up above the House of Commons , for their justice , and their readinesse to hear the grievan●s of the subjects ; and their power pleaded for , and that by Lilburne himself , pag. 74 , 75. of his Pamphlet , call'd ●nnocency and ●ruth justified , where pleading to have his businesse of his sentence in Star-Chamber to be transmitted up to the Lords from the He use of Commons , by way of Answer to Objections against it , he hath these words , If I be transmitted up to the Lords , I confidently beleeve I shall get forward , out of the former experiences of that Justice that I have found there ; and I will instance two particulars , first when I was Prisoner in the Fleet , &c. but that 's too long for me to write down , and I shall rather ref●rre the Reader to the Book , pag. 74. Secondly , May 4. 1641. the King accused me of high Treason , and before the Lords Barre was I brought for my life , where although one Litleton servant to the Prince swore point blanck against me , yet had I free liberty to speak for my selfe in the open House , and upon my desire that Master Andrewes also might declare upon his Oath what he knew about my businesse , it was done , and his Oath being absolutely contradictory to Master Litletons , I was both freed from Litletons malice , and the Kings accusation , at the Barre of the whole House : and for my part I am resolved to speak well of those that have done me justice , and not to doubt they will deny it me , till such time as by experience I find they doe it . And in pag. 56. of Lilburnes Innocency and Truth justified , he writes thus , Againe I say , a Commi●tee of the House of Commons is not the whole Parliament , no nor the whole House of Commons it selfe , according to their owne Principles ; and therefore in my judgement , they are not to act contrary to a known and received Law , and therefore cannot justly imprison any man contrary thereunto , neither by a Committee of theirs , nor by the whole House of Commons it self , they being not according to their own Principles the whole Parliament , but a part of it , and therefore that which is established by the whole ( as a Law is by 3. Estates , and 〈◊〉 Ordinance by 2. Estates ) cannot justly be contradicted by a part , namely the H. of Com. but one Estate , much lesse by one of their Committees , which is but a branch of that one Estate ; and therefore for my part I judge a Law to be a Law untill it be made voide by all the three Estates that made it , or at least by the two Estates joyntly , that takes vpon them to make Ordinances in this time of necessity , to make voide a Law at present , &c. And therefore I am abs●lutely of this minde , that neither a Committee of the House of Commons , nor the whole House of Commons together , can justly imprison me , or any other contrary to law , against which at present there is not some Ordinance made both by them , and the Peers , publike at present to overthrow it . But I have severall times been imprisoned both by Committees , and by vote of the House of Commons it self , contrary to a known Law made this present Parliament by themselves , against which there is at present no Ordinance published and declared by them and the Peers , for the cognizance ; Ergo , I say they are tyed in justice according to the tenor of this Law to give me reparations against those persons that were cheife instruments , either in Committees , or in the House of Commons it self , to vote and take away my liberty from me , contrary to this L●w ; and for my part I do accordingly expect my reparations for my late causelesse molestations and imprisonments . And as Lilburne in these passages gives the House of Lords an equall legislative power with the Commons , making them one of the three Estates as well as the Commons , and expresly saith , the Commons are but a part of the Parliament , and that the Commons cannot make void a Law , unlesse it be by the two Estates joyntly , viz. the Lords and Commons ( all which are contrary to the many wicked Pamphlets printed in this year , 1646. by which the Reader may observe what difference there is between the same Sectaries in the year 1645. and the year 1646. such new light hath the successe of the new Modell , and the recruit of the House of Commons brought to the Sectaries ) so Lilburne and the Sectaries by many actions of theirs have owned and established the power of the House of Lords , as well as of the Commons , as In their severall Petitions to the Lords House as well as Commons , for abolishing Episcopacy ; and in severall other particulars , which clearly proves the legislative power of the Lords as well as Commons ; for is not that a part of legislative power to repeale former Lawes , Statutes , as wel as to make new ? and if the Lords had not a power over Commoners , & that of Judicature , why was Lilburne so earnest with the House of Commons , and in print expresses to the great and high abuse of the House of Commons , their delaying of having their votes transmitted concerning his sentence in Sar-chamber , yea , and that against some Members of the House of Commons by name ? Again , if all the power were in the House of Commons , why did he not rest contented with their votes , but desire the Lords concurrance , and that for the punishing even of Members of the House of Commons , as in page 75. pressing the Commons to transmit their votes , by way of answer to an objection , What justice can you expect from the Lords , seeing Master Smart hath spent foure or five hundred pounds ? he shewes his cause to be different from Master Smarts , in that he is to have justice upon those whose estates are not sequestred , as Master Smarts Adversaries were , but some of them still sit in both Houses . And lastly , if the House of Lords have no power to try or judge Lilburne a Commoner , but their offering so to do be a high usurpation , invasion of the Commons rights , why did not Lilburne when he was accused of high treason before the Lords Barre upon his life ( as himself makes the relation , page 74. ) appeale then from the House of Lords to the House of Commons ? And as Lilburne himself ( the head of the Sectaries in these Anti-Parliamentary principles ) owned the power of the Lords equall with the Commons , and prefer'd their justice before that of the House of Commons , though not chosen by the people : so Cretensis alias * Master John Goodwin , brings Arguments from the House of Commons being chosen by the people against their power of making Lawes in matters Ecclesiasticall , and the peoples submitting to them , because they are chosen by the riffe raffe of the Land , all sorts of men , worldly men , drunkards , &c. having a right of nominating persons to a Parliamentary trust and power . These are a secular root , out of which Cretensis conceives an impossibility that a spirituall extraction should be made , For who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane , &c. Now by this the Reader may see the Sectaries agree not , some excluding the Lords from all power , because not chosen by the universality of the people , others excluding the Commons from their power , because chosen by the universall people ; so that according to Master Goodwins doctrine , the Lords being of Noble Parentage and well bred , not chosen by the rif●e raffe of the people , Atheists , Drunkards , the prophane world , may be fitter , and have more Authority to nominate and appoint who shall be the men , that shall order the affaires of Christs Kingdome , then the Commons . And thus have I set the Pharises and Sadduces one against the other . Secondly , I propound some Queres to Lilburne , Overton , &c. to Answer against I set forth a fourth part of Gangraena . 1. Quere , If all subjection and obedience to Governors be founded only upon the parties immediate present election of them , and not other wise ; whether then may any obedience so much as to appeare before , answer any questions , or submit , be given to Justices of Peace , Judges , Keepers of the great Seale , Sheriffs , Committees , &c. who are not chosen by the people ? 2. Whether any obedience , respect , coming without resistance upon Warrants sent for , may be performed to Majors of Townes , or Deputy Majors , not chosen by the Town where they serve , but appointed by Ordinance of Parliament ? 3. Whe her if men remove from one Town to another , where they had no hand in chusing Majors and Magistrates , must they demand a liberty and power to chuse them before they will obey any of their commands ; and whether must all the young youths of a Town when they come to twenty one years , ●or years of subjecting , demand in the places where they live , a power of chusing Aldermen , or Burgesses of Townes before they can submit to them ? 4. Whether does not a constitution of a Government for such a people and Nation , made by the wisdome of Ancestors some hun-hundred years before , though not by election of the people one in every year , or seven , or more , but founded upon such and such good Lawes , and in succession of persons by birth and inheritance , bind a people to obey and subject , as well as if chosen by them ? 5. Suppose in formes of civill Government and constitution of Kingdomes , every particular were not so good and exact as might be desired by some , and possibly might be , yet whether is not a peoples submitting , and accepting that forme of Government many years togethera consenting to it , and equivalent to a formall Election . There is one John Price an Exchange man , Cretensis beloved Disciple , and one of his Prophets ; who among others preach for him , when he hath any Book to Answer , or some Libertine Tractate to set forth ; This man hath put forth three Pamphlets , one about Independencies , the other two Replyes or Answers ; one to the City Remonstrane , the other to a Vindication of the Remonstrance ; in all which he shewes himself to be Schollar to Cretensis , and somewhat allyed to Lilburne , Overton , and the rest of those Sectaries , who give all the supreame power of this Kingdome to the House of Commons : For in his City Remonstrance Remonstrated , and in his moderate Reply he is against the City Remonstrance , for giving only a share of the supreame power to the House of Commons , and instead of three Estates the * King , Lords , and Commons , of which the fundamentall Constitution of the Government of this Kingdome is made up , he holds there is but one , and that the Commons , for which hee gives his Reasons ( such as they be ) and puts Queres to the Author of the Justification of the City Remonstrance ; their scope being all along , to give the whole supreame power , and not only a part to the Commons . Certainly these Books of Master Price were not written in the yeare 1645. but in the yeare 1646. that they agree so with Lilburne , Overton , &c. And if I should use his Master Goodwins Argument against him here , I wonder how hee would answer it ; Those who are chosen by the generality of the Land , Worldlings , drunkards , uncleane persons are not fit to have the whole supreame power of the Kingdome , and neither King , nor Lords to have any part with them . But so are the Commons of England chosen . Ergo. Now both the major and the minor are his Tutor Goodwins , only the major is stronger as I put it ; for if according to Master Goodwin , because they are chosen by the Common people , and not only by Saints , they are uncapable of a part of the supreame power , because there is an impossibility of a spirituall extraction out of a secular root ; then much more should they not have the whole supreame power . And as this man is bold with the power of the King and Lords to exchange it , and give it to the Commons , so he is with the City , the Court of Common-Councell , calling the City Remonstrance made by the Common-Councell , the disturber of the quiet and peace of the Church and State , &c. And so in page 13. 22. there are passages aspersing the Remonstrance and the Common-Councell . This Master Price contents not himself to preach only in London , but I heare of him by a godly Minister who was lately at Edmunds-Bury , that he hath preached there in a house , and a godly judicious Citizen told me and some others that he maintained to him some dangerous and hereticall opinions , as that men might be saved who were not elected , and that if men did improve nature well , God would surely give them grace ; So that it seems this Exchange man sells other wares besides Independency and Separation , and does as the Apostle Peter speaks , with fained words make marchandize of mens soules . Master Price also ( I suppose this Price ) was at a meeting here in London , where some of severall Sects , Seekers , Antinomians , Anabaptists , Brownists , Independents , met with some Presbyterians to consider how all these might live together , notwithstanding their severall opinions , and he was , as all the Sectaries were for a generall Toleration , and they agreed together like buckle and thong , only the Presbyterians were not satisfied . There is one Master Cradock who came out of Wales , and is going thither again to be an Itinerary Preacher whom I have spoken of in page 131. that hee declined coming to the Assembly , but now lately October 14. seeing the pay could not be had without the concurrence of the Lords , and in all this time having made some leading men his friends , hee came to be examined and is passed ; but besides that he hath gathered a Church , administring the Lords Supper in a house at evening , he hath preached many odd things in the City , straines tending to Antinomianisme , Libertinisme , as speaking against men of an old Testament spirit , and how poore Drunkards and Adulterers could not look into one of our Churches but hell fire must be flashed in their faces . That if a Saint should commit a grosse sinne , and upon the committing of it should be startled at it , that would be a great sinne in him . And now lately this October , or at the latter end of September , he preached on that Text in Thames-street , Wee are not of the night , but of the day ; upon which Text he delivered matter to this effect , that since the Apostles times , or presently after them , there had been a great night , but now the day was breaking out after a long night , and light was coming every day more then other ; and there were many Gospel priviledges , and of the new Jerusalem that we should then enjoy : In that day there should be no Ordinances to punish men for holding opinions , there should be no Confessions of Faith , there every one should have the liberty of their consciences , then as in Micah 't is prophesied of those Gospel times , All people will walke every one in the name of his God , and wee will walke every one in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever , which place was brought for liberty of conscience by him ; And in that day neither Episcopacy nor Presbytery , nor any others should intermeddle , or invade the rights of the Saints ; many such flings he had ; and this Sermon was preached just upon that time when the Ordinance against Heresies was taken into debate , and the Confession of Faith to be brought into the House of Commons , so that by these and many more particulars , his hints about dipping often and suffering such , shewes what the first fruits of these Itinerary Preachers are , and what a sad thing 't is men so principled should go among such a people as the Welch , with so large a power of preaching as he and his fellowes have . Master Sympson the Independent , preaching presently after the second part of Gangraena came forth , at Black-Friars on June 12. ( as 't is given me under ones hand ) and in his Sermon discoursing about the Angels bringing no railing accusation against Satan , he advised his people how to behave themselves at this time now the Saints infirmities were laid open ; First , not answer a word , as the King of Judah commanded those he sent to Rabshakeh . Secondly , to pray against them , yea and to pray against them by name , for God would avenge them . Reader take notice of the charity and love of Independents to their Presbyterian Brethren , to stirre up the people to pray against them , and that by name , with giving them an incourragement from Gods avenging , which I never read was practised by the Primitive Church , but only against Julian the Apostate , whom the Church judged with one consent to have sinned against the Holy Ghost . These Independents and Sectaries did in many Books before my first part of Gangraena came forth , name many Presbyterian godly Ministers , and others , laying open infirmities committed long before , yea abusing Members of both Houses , and worthy persons , by writing lyes and false things of them , as that religious and Noble Earle of Manchester , Master Pryn , Colonell King , Master Calamy , with many more ; and have abused by name in printed Books lately many able and godly Ministers of the Assembly , as Master Vines , Master Marshall , Master Sedgwick , Master Gataker , Master Ley , Master Newcomen , Master Seaman , Master Hill , Doctor Burges , with some City Ministers ; and this is no fault in the Sectaries , neither are these worthy men , Saints be like in the Independent Kalender , nor may the Presbyterians I hope pray against Master Saltmarsh , Cretensis , Lilburne , and others of them by name ; but for Master Edwards because he hath written of the damnable Errors , Heresies , and Blasphemies of these times , and the better to preserve the people , and to make them take heed , hath given the names of some of the prime seducers , Wrighter , Erbury , Hich , Wallwyn , Denne , Kissin , Lambe , Lilburne , &c. not Saints in his Creed , nor their opinions and wayes , infirmities , but deliberated , plotted abominations , therefore hee must be prayed against , and that by name ; and as Master Sympson gives him his blessing , so his Brother Borroughs presently after the coming forth of the Antapologie , preaching at Cornhill , was speaking of some that laid open the infirmities of the Saints , and that raked up Letters , stories , and all to bring out against the Saints ; but of such ( saith he ) I will say no more , but as Michael the Archangell the Lord rebuke thee ; which in the carriage of the passage , and way of expression was so evidently against me , that ( I beleeve ) of godly Ministers and Christians twenty told me of it ; and they said many who heard him , spoke of it , and said it was a poor thing of Master Burroughs to speak so in the Pulpit , he should do well to answer the Book . Now as for the prayers of the Sectaries against me and their curses , I would have them know , that though I am sorry for them they should do so , yet I feare not their curses , but well understand that when they curse , God will blesse , and that the curse causelesse shall not come , Prov. 26. 2. besides I know , in this very thing I have more with me then against me , and in many Countries of this Kingdome both North and West , I am assured from godly Ministers and Citizens , who have been with me , that I am in an especiall manner prayed for , and many thanks given to God in my behalf for enabling me , and stirring me up to this work against the Sectaries . There is a godly Minister of Cheshire who was lately in London ; that related with a great deale of confidence this following story as a most certaine truth known to many of that County , that this last Summer the Church of Duckingfield ( of which Master Eaton and Master Taylor are Pastor and Teacher ) being met in their Chappell to the performing of their worship and service , as Master Eaton was preaching , there was heard the perfect sound as of a man beating a martch on a drum , and it was heard as coming into the Chappell , and then as going up all along the I le through the people , and so about the Chappell , but nothing seen , which Master Eaton preaching and the people that sate in the severall parts of the Chappell heard , insomuch that it terrified Master Eaton and the people , caused him to give over preaching , and fall to praying , but the martch still beating , they broke up their exercise for that time , and were glad to be gone . Now I conceive this passage of Providence towards these Independents speaks thus much to them and to the Kingdom , especially considering this Church of Duckingfield is the first Independent Church visible and framed that was set up in England , being before the Apologists came from Holland , and so before their setting up their Churches here in London , First , that the Independents are for wars , desirous of wars , to maintain and uphold their Independent Churches by them ; and thirst for a new warre with Scotland , as much as ever an unhappy boy did to be at fisty-cuffes with another boy ; and for that end provoke the Scots all kind of wayes , study all wayes to make a breach with them . Secondly , The warres which they would have , and occasion , shall prove their ruine , the means to overthrow all their Conventicles , separated Meetings ; they are greedy of a warre to establish them , but as now the beating of ●his Drum drove them out of the Chappell , broke up their Meeting , so shall the warre which they have sought , overthrow all their Opinions , Meetings , and cast them out of England for ever ; as the Bishops and their faction were greedy for a warre against the Scots , to support their greatnesse and Ceremonies , and have been active to promote this second warre , which hath proved their ruine ; so the Independents plotting , and driving on for warre shall break their necks , and break up their Conventicles , and cause the Kingdoms to cast them out as an abominable branch ; and the issue of all the warres and bloud they thirst after , shall be , that some of their Heads shall be served by the Presbyterians , viz. put into that bloud which themselves have caused , perish by it , and that most justly , as King Cyrus was by Tomyris that Scythian Queen , putting his head into a tub of bloud , and saying , Satia te sanguine quem sitisti , nam insatiabilis fuisti ; and therefore let the Independents and Sectaries take heed of a new warre , and make use of this warning given them at one of their Meetings . Some Passages taken out of a Letter sent from a godly Minister in Northamptonshire to a Friend of his in London . Good Cousin , I Pray read , seal , and at your best leasure deliver the * inclosed ; wherein I have related some particulars very soul , though there be many more , and more blasphemous : It s a wonder amongst us that other Souldiers cannot be found , but such as fight against the soul , doing more hurt that way , then they can do good any other way . If the Parliament take not a course with them , they shall certainly become our future rods , or God himself will overthrow them in our sight ; take a note of the particulars and keep them , for I have not time . Septemb. 24. 1646. Some Passages extracted out of two Letters sent from a godly Christian in Lancashire to Friends in London . LOving Friend , God hath safely returned our Friends in health ; whatever our Petition produceth , yet we have this comfort , that we have done our duty . The Sectaries here have got a Petition on foot for a Toleration , and hope they shall not wait so long at the Commons door for an Answer , as ours hath done . Sir , SInce our Petition was received into the House of Commons , ( where it produced an Ordinance for the setling of the Presbyterian Government in this County ) the Sectaries have promoted an Anti-Petition here and in C●eshire ; they stile it The Petition of the peaceable and wel-affected that desire liberty of conscience as was promised by the House of Commons in their Declaration they ordered formerly to be read in Churches : They have inserted some other plausible things into it , the better to draw on hands , promote it with great secrecy , shew it to none but to such as before-hand they have some assurance will sign it : It was framed and set on foot by the Members of the Church of Duckingfeild , but I am confident they admit to sign it Seekers , Soul-sleepers , Anabaptists : Rigid Brownists , &c. We hear of one Minister in our County who hath signed it that is a common Drunkard , and two or three young Scholars , who have begun to preach without Ordination , one of which affirmed to me and some others , that hee would defend Independency with his bloud . Master Taylor and Master Eaton are wonderfull active both in Cheshire and Lancashire , they much improve — who is become agreat zealot for them , hath threatned some of the godly Ministers that live near him to make their places too hot for them for denying their Pulpits to Master Eaton : We have through the mercy of God a learned and active Clergy in our County , sound and Orthodox , who I hope will be assisted with many able and active men in their work of Government ; but Cheshire is miserably become a prey to the Sectaries , they have set up already there two or three Independent Churches , and are setting up two or three more ; — hath so farre incouraged them , discouraged and born down the Orthodox wel affected Gentlemen and Ministers , that they could never to this day get any thing done against them . We are as sensible ( I beleeve ) as any County in England , and fear the carriage of things is such as will make the Kingdom weary . Men speak here freely , and say that now men may safelier blaspheme all the Persons in the Trinity , then speak many things that are true of some Members of Parliament . The suffering the Church of God to be rent and torn in peeces by Heresies , Seismes and Divisions , the retarding the releif for poor bleeding Ireland , the greiving and sadding the hearts of our Brethren of Scotland , with many other things , makes us fear that the Lord hath a further controversie with us . Octob. 10. 1646. A Minister told me lately hee having a Living given him , or faire for it , some Sectaries , Independents and Antinomians desiring to bring in a Sectary and an Antinomian , thereupon procured to petition the Patron for the Sectary and against this honest Minister , and to effect their businesse the more probably they set down to the Petition the names of some Inhabitants who were for the Orthodox Minister in the behalfe of this Sectary , when as they were against his coming in , and never knew or once imagined their names were subscribed . A Copie of a Letter written from a godly Minister in Holland to some Reverend and godly Ministers here in London . Reverend Brethren , I Have been sparing in writing unto you , albeit I here have great need of correspondence in respect I am as it were alone among so many of different dispositions and nations . I acknowledge the blame in my selfe , who have not sought it of you , of whose willingnesse I am confident . Now a particular occasion hath forced to break off , wherein I desire your resolution . The Currents that are brought over hither these last two weeks make mention that the Assembly of Divines are about the penning of the Articles of Faith , and that when the Article concerning the Trinity was presented unto the * Parliament , they would not admit of the word Person , because it is a word not used in the first three hundred yeers , and was the cause of great division and troubles in the Christian Churches ; This seemeth very strange unto many here , seeing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 1. 3. was never nor is otherwise translated in the Latin , French , Dutch , nor our language ; neither have any excepted against it but Antitrinitarians , Arrians , and Socinians and others of that sort . I have spoken with the Dutch Ministers concerning this , and they admire that the Parliament seemeth to have such respect unto those damned Hereticks ; and the more that the Orthodox in Poland in their late Declaration would not grant the name of Brethren in Christianity to the Socinians . One of the Dutch Ministers of this Town told me , when we were speaking of this purpose , that a Book-seller said to him , that sundry English Merchants were seeking to buy the works of Socinus , Ostorodius , Oniedinus , Crellius , and especially Socinus de servatore ; and when the Book-seller answered that they could not have those books in those Countries , because they are discharged by Ordinance of the Generall States , the Merchants said unto him , Neverthelesse you may bring them from other Countries , and we will give you for them what you will ; whereupon that Minister when he told me this , said , The Estate of England is lamentable , for it seemeth that Socinianisme waxeth there ; for this practice , and that excepting at the word , is too great evidence thereof . I heare also that Master Simons hath written unto his Congregation here very confidently , that Toleration shall be granted , even with these terms , In spight of them who have enterprised the contrary . Wherefore , beloved Brethren , I humbly beseech you to let me know the certainty of this matter , that ( if possible ) I may give satisfaction unto wel-affected persons , who think this excepting at that word to import no lesse then a condemning of , or at least a departing from the Orthodox Confessions of all the Reformed Churches . If in this or any other particular Occurrents it will please you to give me intelligence , you may direct your Letters unto R. W. who is a Skipper , and comes usually betwixt London and this Town ; wherein you shall do good unto many , and especially unto Octob. 13. 23. 1646. Your Loving Brother There is one Andrew Wyke of the County of Suffolk a Mechanick , but turned a great Preacher and Dipper , who for his Preaching and Dipping being brought before the Committee of that County , carried himself like Lilburne , Overton , and other fellow Sectaries , refusing to answer the Chair-man any questions , as whether he had been at the University , saying , I am a free man , and not bound to answer to any Interrogatory , I will answer to no Interrogatory , either to accuse my self , or any other ; besides he gave reproachfull words , reproving the Committee , as , You may think to speak what you please now , with such other language . This Wyke , or some other Sectary hath printed a Pamphlet , call'd The Innocent in Prison complaining ; or , A true Relation of the proceedings of the Committee at Ipswich , the Committee at Bury St. Edmunds in the County of Suffolk , against one Andrew Wyke a witnesse of Jesus , in the same County ; who was committed to Prison June 3. 1646. In which Pamphlet the Committee and divers Members of it by name are abused , resembling them to the Jewes who condemned Christ , and himself to Christ ; and the Committee is exclaimed upon fearfully pag. 10. There is one Katherine Chidly an old Brownist , and her sonne a young Brownist , a pragmaticall fellow , who not content with spreading their poyson in and about London , goe down into the Country to gather people to them , and among other places have been this Summer at Bury in Suffolke , to set up and gather a Church there , where ( as I have it from good hands ) they have gathered about seven persons , and kept their Conventicles together ; who being one night very late together about their Church-affairs , a mad woman breaking from her Keeper and running out of the house she was kept in , happened to light upon the house where this company was , and stood up in the entry of the house ; they being upon dissolving their meeting , and going to their severall homes , as they were going out , there stood this woman in her smock in the entry speaking never a word , which when they saw , they ran over one another for fear of this white devill , some one way , some another , almost frighted out of that little wit they had . Gaffar Lanseter of Bury ( for so he was , unlesse he hath commenced Master by preaching ) whom I have spoken of in the Second Part of Gangraena , was a great man with Katherine Chidly and her sonne , and is left Preacher to that company of Sectaries in their room ; and I have great reason to think by the Epistle to the Reader , that Katherine Chidly and her sonne made that Book call'd Lanseters Launce , because Katherine Chidly and her sons Books ( for the mother and the son made them together , one inditing , and the other writing ) are highly magnified , and the brasen-faced audacious old woman resembled unto Jael ; but as for Lann●ters Launce for my Gangrana , I shall shew it to be made not of iron or steele , in no sort able or usefull to lance or enter the Gangraena , but a lance of brown painted paper , fit for children to play with ; and to assure the Reader of it , I received this last week a Message to this purpose , from one of the Ministers who gave intelligence about Lanseter , that he was about perfecting the proofes and particulars about Lanseters businesse , and I should shortly hear from him ; and within this two dayes a godly understanding man who was present at this meeting when Lanseter preached upon Ezra , gave me an account of the businesse , of the truth of the whole , and hath put me in a way , whereby , under the hands of persons present at the meeting , I may have it confirmed ; and so among the confutations of some other Pamphlets , I shall insert this of Lanseters . There is one John Hall a great Sectary , who hath vented many erroneous Positions in some parts of Barkshire and thereabouts ; I had a copy of them from a Reverend Minister of the Assembly ; and in the Second Part of Gangraena in the Catalogue of Errors , such Errors as he vented , viz. such as were not reckoned up in the First Part of Gangraena , were there inserted by me , though he was not named at all in that Book ; but now discovering in severall Counties more Sectaries then I did formerly in the First and Second Parts , I have thought good to name him among many others , that the people of those parts may beware of him , and shun him as a dangerous man ; concerning whom I received a Letter from a godly Minister in Barkshire , which is as followes . Sir , THat I may not be wanting to the Cause of God , or my promise to you , I sent the last week to speak with Master F. but failed of a full answer , he not being within ; but thus much I received , that Master S. had been there , and that he had taken a Copy of the Positions , so that if you have any acquaintance with him he can fully inform you about this matter : He is one of the Synod , a Reverend and Orthodox Divine . I shall send to Master F. again , and when I understand more , if I see just cause , you shall hear further from me . The Teacher of these things is one John Hall , sometimes of Colebrooke , but as I am informed now resident in or about Henley upon Thames . Thus desiring the Lord both to direct and prosper your labours in vindicating the Truth of God , and opposing Heresies , I rest Yours in the Lord Christ . A●gust , 24. A godly and understanding young man told me that a Quarter-Master belonging to a Regiment of horse , coming up into a Pulpit to preach , prepared the Country people for his Sermon , by saying they should not wonder to see a man in such a habit to preach , for he had a command from the Spirit to preach , and he was under the command of the Spirit , and must do accordingly , and told them though they might say he was no Scholar , yet that was no matter , for the Spirit without learning could enable a man to the work . A Gentleman of good understanding told me lately before other company , that he meeting with a Captaine of horse belonging to Cromwells Regiment ( as 't is commonly calld ) with whom he rid some miles , and dined also at the Sheafe in Daintry the last of August , this Captain told him , that the Parliament and Scots were agreed ( that was the newes ) of delivering up the King to Colonell Poyns , who was with his forces to convay him as farre as Trent , or thereabouts , and then Cromwells Regiment was to bring him up to London to see him safe convayed to the Parliament , and if he would not signe the Propositions , then he said the Parliament would decoll him , and thus they will decoll him , acting with his hand in putting it to his own neck , in away of cutting off ; and this Captain added further , that he thought it would never be well with this Kingdome till the King was served so . This man in his discourse speaking of Presbyteriall Government , said it was a hundred times worse then Episcopall . This Captaine when he came to Daintry , enquiring for his Company where it quartred , and not hearing suddenly where they were quartered , was much troubled , miting his hand on his breast , that at such a time as this of going to fetch up the King , hee should be away , and hee took care for fresh horses for his journey Northward to fetch up the King. This last August , I was informed from a good hand , viz. one who came out of Northamptonshire , that some of that Regiment calld Cromwells Regiment , quartering in Northamptonshire , would not suffer the Ministers to preach quietly , but affronted them ; among others one Master H. a godly Minister going to his Cure , one S. a Trooper who quartered in that Town , pleaded that Jesuites should have their liberty of Conscience as well as other men ; and in the afternoon when this Minister had done preaching , stood up in the open Church , speaking to the people , pretending as to question some things delivered , but indeed fell upon venting to the people the doctrine of Universall Grace , that no man was condemned for any thing but unbeleef ; whereupon Master H. spake to him , why do you not speak to somewhat which I preached as you pretended ? upon that this Trooper said , I accept against that you preached for saying we might not question God , but where he hath given us a word for such a thing , we must beleeve it without questioning him ; to whom Master H. replyed , if you will question God , you may well question me . I was told at the same time by one who came out of Northamtonshire , that one of the Sectarian souldiers laid his hand on his sword , and said , this sword should never be laid down , nor many thousands more , whilst there was a Priest left in England . I have been told it by severall that in Northamptonshire , some of the Sectarian souldiers being in company with a young Scholar , a godly Ministers sonne in Northamptonshire , one Master Smith , and venting some of their opinions he reasoning against them , and belike putting them to non-plus , they wounded him terribly , so that it was thought he could not live , yea it was feared hee was dead already . A worthy Member of the House of Commons told me at the latter end of August last , that Letters were written out of Hampshire from some persons in place there , to Members of the House of Commons , complaining that the souldiers who billited there carried themselves so ill , as that if they continued there , they could not serve them , but must leave the Country ; for they infuse such poysonous opinions against all Government , and persons of Authority , as that none of us shall be regarded . August the 12. I was certainly informed from eare witnesses , that a few dayes before , two very godly and understanding men well known , had discourse with a Captaine belonging to Colonell Hammonds Regiment , who positively maintained and affirmed these things to them , speaking them often as his opinion , and the rest of the Army of his way , That the House of Commons was the Parliament of England and not only a part of it ; That if this House of Commons should give any Order for them to go fight with the Scots , they would go ; That if the House of Commons should give order to come against the City of London , they would do it ; and he spake of the City of London with much detestation , saying , hee was perswaded the City of London hated that Army , with other words to that effect ; This Captaine asked them , if they heard not of the plot to destroy the Army , to send part of them into Ireland , to be there cut off ( so the sending of forces into Ireland was interpreted . ) This Captaine to another honest man , either the same day , or within a few dayes maintained the same things in substance , so that one of them telling a Colonell belonging to the Army what this Captaine had said , that upon an order of the House of Commons , they would as willingly fight against the City of London and Scots , as ever they did against the Cavaleers , the Colonell answered readily , it was no such wonder , for he beleeved it was the sense of a great many in the Army . A person of worth who was at the Bath this Summer , told me that he had heard Master Saltmarsh , and Master ▪ Del preach there before the Generall , but never heard them pray for forgivnesse of sinnes ; and said he was glad he had heard them , that he might know what manner of men they were . It hath been told me by two or three of the Town of Wantwich in Barkshire , that at a Town neer Wantwich , and in Wantwich a great Market Town , a Sectary belonging to the Army , preached in the Parish Churches ; one of the Texts upon which he preached was out of the Revelation , where he spake much of Antichrist , and that all those were Antichristian who were for childrens Baptisme , and that none could be saved unlesse they were rebaptized . The man when he had done preaching at Wantwich , spoke to the people , and desired them to object what they could against his Sermon , and he would answer them ; he did not bid them come to his chamber to be satisfied as many would , but he was publikly ready to answer any objections made against what he had preached . There is a very honest man of Master Whitakers Parish in Bermondseystreet told me , that one Marshall of that Parish a great Sectary , refusing to pay his Tyths , according to the Ordinance of Parliament , was questioned , and upon proof before three Justices of Peace was adjudged to pay it , but not paying for all this , two godly men , Master W. and he ( who told me this story ) came to demand it , or else distraine , whereupon he calld these honest men robbers and theifs , and said the Parliament made an Ordinance to rob men , which being complained of and proved , this Marshall was committed . Now when he was committed , Lilburne assisted him in his businesse , came to this honest man who related to me the story , to see the Warrant , by vertue of which they proceeded to distraine ; and in fine this Marshall arrested the Justices of Peace ( who went according to the Ordinance ) and the Distrainers , but at last being brought before the Committee of Examinations , he promised to withdraw his action , and said , he spake those words in his passion ; and yet since his promise , hath renewed his suite , and the Justices and Distrainers are now troubled by him . A godly Minister of this City told me June 12. 1646. that he discoursing with a Major belonging to the Army about the Government of the Church , he told him plainly that they were not so much against Presbyteriall Government ( though many thought them so ) as against the being tyed to any Government at all ; for if the Parliament would set up the Independent Government , and injoyne that upon them , they should be as much against that as against Presbyteriall Government : They held liberty of Conscience , that no man should be bound , or tyed to any thing , but every man left free to hold what they pleased ; that was the judgement and true genius of that sort of men in the Army , calld Independents , that in all matters of Religion no man should be bound , but every one left to follow his own Conscience . There is a libellous Pamphlet entituled , The Lord Majors farwell from his Office of Majoraltie , which was sent to him in a Letter by an Anabaptist , one of the meek and quiet of the earth , as he often calls himself and his fellowes in that Pamphlet , and coming to my Lords hands over-night , next day he heard that it was in print ; the substance of which Pamphlet is to charge my Lord Major with breach of promise , in not endeavoring to procure of the Parliament , a publike disputation between the Anabaptist● and the Presbyterians , and for presenting an unjust Remonstrance to the Parliament , for suppressing both Anabaptists and Separatists . Now I shall speak something to both these , and vindicate the truth against this lying Libeller . Secondly , I shall Animadvert on some passages and expressions in this Pamphlet . For the first , my Lord Majors breach of promise , upon which hee runns out and descants , builds this inference among others , That if Master Edwards or Doctor Bastwick had any such blot against us , doubtlesse there would be great Volumes of a hundred sheets a peece blazed throughout the Kingdome to disgrace us , as your breach of promise ; I answer breifly , the building must needs fall , when as the foundation falls ; my Lord Major broke not his promise , but was very carefull of it , and mindfull of what you say hee promised , namely , to know the pleasure of the Parliament , and to endeavour the liberty of a publike disputation , and my Lord was so consciencious in it , both in regard of God and in regard of men , that he might not be upbraided with breach of promise , knowing well what a generation he had to deale with , that he was never at quiet after his promise was made , till the House of Commons was moved in the businesse ; and therefore every time when he ●aw Master Recorder , he minded him to move the House , he put a note into his hands because he should not forget ; when he saw him not for some time , he writ to him to mind him , and was never contented till it was done ; and Master Recorder did take in his time within some weeks after my Lords promise , watching when he might acquaint the House seasonably , without interrupting other great publike occasions of the Kingdome ; and the House of Commons Answer was , they approved of the wisdome of my Lord Major , in forbidding the disputation at that time , and that they would not give consent for a disputation ; and for the truth of this , let Master Recorder be asked , and other Members who were present ; and therefore Master Recorder in all places , and to all who speaks to him about it , clears my Lord Major that he punctually performed his promise ; and if it be any such hainous crime to hinder such a tumultuous disputation , as that was like to have been , let them lay the blame upon the House of Commons , if they dare , and not upon the Lord Major . And what I write in this matter , I speak knowingly , as being assured of the truth of it , from the mouth of him who should know . But least the Anabaptists should think , whilst I vindicate the truth against a scandalous reproach cast upon the Lord Major , I do it out of respects as being glad the Disputation was put off , and since denyed ; I here declare my self , that I could wish withall my heart there were a publike Disputation , even in the point of Paedobaptisme and of Dipping , between some of the Anabaptists , and some of our Ministers ; and had I an interest in the Houses to prevaile to obtaine it ( which I speak not as to presume of any such power , being so meane and weak a man ) it should be one of the first Petitions I would put up to the Honorable Houses for a publike Disputation , as was at Zurick , namely , that both Houses would give leave to the Anabaptists to chuse for themselves such a number of their ablest men , and the Assembly leave to chuse an equall number for them , and that by Authority of Parliament publike Notaries sworne , might be appointed to write down all , some Members of both Houses present to see to the Peace kept , and to be Judges of the faire play and liberty given the Anabaptists , and that there might be severall dayes of Disputation , leave to the utmost given the Anabaptists to say what they could , and if upon such faire and free debates it should be found the Anabaptists to be in the Truth , then the Parliament not only to Tolerate them , but to Establish and settle their way throughout the whole Kingdome ; but if upon Disputation and debate , the Anabaptists should be found in an Error ( as I am confident they would ) that then the Parliament should forbid all Dipping , and take some severe course with all Dippers , as the Senate of * Zurick did after the ten severall Disputations allowed the Anabaptists . For the second particular , my Lord Major is charged with presenting of an unjust Remonstrance to the Parliament , for suppressing Anabaptists , &c I answer , my Lord Major presented it not , hee went not to Westminster with it , but some Aldermen and Common counsell men chosen by the Court : The Remonstrance was the Act of the Court of Common-counsell , and not my Lords Majors alone , nor my Lord Majors any otherwise , but as a Member of that Honourable Court concurring with the rest ; and then whereas this Libeller calls it an unjust Remonstrance , 't is a most just and equall Remonstrance , as hath been fully proved by Master Bellamie in his Justification and Vindication of the City Remonstrance , and in that Book entituled the Sectaries Anatomized ; and if I would give liberty to my pen , I could further justifie not only the justnesse of it , but the necessity of it , and show demonstratively , that it will never be well with this Kingdome , whilst Sectaries are in places of publike trust , and that the subjects of this Kingdome can never expect justice , nor right , whilst men of other Religions , then what is established by Law , are in places of power ; and I wonder that the Anabaptists and Sectaries , should be so offended at that part of the Remonstrance , when as 't is their dayly practise , not by faire and just wayes ( God knowes ) but by undermining , watching for iniquity , laying snares for men ; yea going against all principles , Military and Civill , of Honour and of Justice , to put men from places of Trust and Command , of which there are many remarkable unparalleld instances , and the world in due time may have a true account of them . And lastly , whereas 't is said , presenting a Remonstrance for procuring Licence and Authority , to suppresse all such as have good principles and grounds for their practises ; that 's most false , for in the same Remonstrance against Hereticks , Blasphemers , Anabaptists , &c. they petition for the setling of Religion and Church-government , according to the word of God , and the example of the best Reformed Churches , which Religion , Church-government so built , hath certainly good ground for its practise . For the second , I desire the Reader to observe a few things upon some of the expressions in this Pamphlet , that he calls the Anabaptists and Sectaries the meek and quiet of the Land , as Master Peters doth , the harmlesse Anabaptists , then which that there are not a more turbulent unquiet people in the world , made of Salt-Peter , let this Book witnesse , and the language in it given the cheif Magistrate of the City , with the railing seditious Libells put out dayly against the King , House of Lords , Assembly , yea and the House of Commons too . The Anabaptists of old calld themselves the meek of the Earth , and said , that now the promise must be fulfilled , the meek shall inherite the Earth , when they by bloud , Rapine , cruel Warrs , seased on the possessions of others . Secondly , that these Sectaries will take things for granted , and therupon passe desperate censures upon Magistrates , Ministers , and all , when as there is no such thing but quite contrary , as going on to aggravate things against my Lord Major , and resemble him to wicked Ahaz , &c. for breaking his promise , when as he performed it most punctually and conscientiously , considering himself both as a Christian , and as a Magistrate , in such an eminent place . Thirdly , that these new Anabaptists , as well as the old , are guilty of speaking evill of dignities , and bringing railing accusation in print against Powers , branding the Lord Major with that brand set by God himself on wicked Ahaz , this is that Lord Major of London , Thomas Adams by name , &c. A Citizen a freind of mine having been this last summer in Cheshire , and divers other Countries upon his occasions , heard many Malignants say , they would turne Independents , for then they should not take the Covenant , nor be forced to any thing , but be at their liberty . June the 11. I was told by a godly Citizen , and a cordiall friend to the Publike , that some of the Independents have said , they will have their way yet , whatsoever it cost them . In some of the weekly news-Books , I have observed passages inserted of the great love and unity in the Army between the souldiers , Presbytery and Independency making no breach ; and in the Perfect Occurrences of the Week , calld the two and twentieth Week , ending the 29. of May , 1646. the Pamphleter tells us 't is very observable to consider the love and unity which is among the souldiers ; Now I asked about that time a Chaplaine of the Army , a moderate Presbyterian , whether it was so , and how it came about , he gave me this answer , through the great forbearance of the Presbyterians , who suffered them to have their wills , and crossed them not , took all patiently , and ( said he ) if the Presbyterians should not have done so , but stood upon things as the Independents , it had been impossible but the Army had been broken in twenty peeces many a time before this , for the Sectaries are of such a proud high spirit , that if they had not had their wills , there would have been no peace ; and indeed both in Armies , Assembly , City , there hath been that forbearing , yeelding on the Presbyterian party , in reference to the publike , that the Independents and Sectaries , if they had been in their place would never have done , though it had cost the totall losse of three Kingdomes . I beleeve no age nor story can parallell , all things considered , the Love , Patience , long-suffering of the Presbyterians , yea the passing by and putting up so many provocations , and unsufferable abuses as they have done , and that from a contemptible handfull of men in comparison ; but that 's our comfort , That the patient expectation of the poore shall not be forgotten for ever , and that God will save the afflicted people , but will bring downe high looks . I have been assured from divers good hands , as Citizens and others , that the greatest thing in the City Remonstrance that the Sectaries are offended at , is that about places of publike trust , they take that most hainously , that Sectaries should not have places of honour , profit , and power ; which clearly shewes to all the world , 't is not a bare Toleration of their consciences , & of enjoying their own personall Estates in the Land that they seek , or which would content them ; but they look for Preferment , Rewards , power to have others under them ; so that 't is a Domination , and to be in such a condition that others may seek to them to be Tolerated , that they aime at ; a Toleration and liberty of conscience contents them not , but a Liberty of Offices , and a power of great places , both in Military and civill affaires they stand for . Master Burroughs in the yeare 1645. both preached and printed , even in that Tractate where he pleades for a Toleration , That the Magistrate may , to men who differ from the State , in greater Errors , ( at least ) deprive them of * the benefits and priviledges of the State , notwithstanding their pleas of conscience : and in evills of lesse moment , put them to some trouble in those wayes of evill , so farre as to take off the wantonesse of their spirits , and the neglect of meanes ; some * trouble may be layed in the way , so that men shall see there is something to be suffered in that way ; and there is no reason why any should be offended at this ; yea Master Burroughs grants one step may be gone further , that in such things as men by their weaknesse make themselves lesse serviceable to the common-wealth or Church , they may be denyed some priviledges and benefits that are granted to others . And of this , Master Burroughs gives instances and enlarges it . Now certainly if this doctrine were good and true in the yeare , 1645. before the successe of the new Modell , and the recruit of the House of Commons , the doctrine in the City Remonstrance , 1646. cannot be bad nor false , that would have Anabaptists , Heriticks , and Schismaticks kept , and removed from places of Publike trust ; If they may be denyed priviledges and benefits that are granted to others , and some trouble laid in their way , &c. for their opinions , then certainly they should not be preferred above others to all places of publike trust , whilst men who conforme to the true Religion established by the State , be kept out , yea turned out of places ; And as Master Burroughs was of this mind , so I and divers others have heard Mr Tho. Goodwin ingenuously professe since this Parliament , though the Magistrate should forbeare tender consciences that could not come up to the Rule , yet it was most equall that the countenance and preferments in the Magistrates hands , should be bestowed only on those who conformed to what was established ; and therefore said hee , we desire only to be suffered to live , and enjoy the Ordinances , but expect no places nor any of that maintenance which is in the States disposing ; and therefore the Remonstrants in that branch of their Petition were ●arre from Persecution , Injustice , if Master Burroughs and Master Goodwin may be beleeved , and that which they desired most necessary to take off the wantonnesse of mens spirits , and the neglect of meanes ; and in all this , the●'s no more graines of trouble then might help aginst this wantonnesse , &c. and the truth of it is these preferments , places of publike trust , &c. have made more Sectaries and Anti-Presbyterians , then all the Sermons and Books ever preached and printed by the Sectaries and 't is one of the great springs of all our evills , the prime cause of all Injustice , Oppression , Error , Faction ; and things will never go well with the publike , nor the union of both Kingdomes be soundly setled , till Hereticks , Blasphemers , Schismaticks , Seekers , Anabaptists , Antinomians , Libertines , Brownists , and Independents , be removed from all places of publike trust , both Martiall and Civill ; and 't is a most righteous thing to Petition for it . As the zealous Protestants of this Kingdome could not expect Justice , protection from Popish Counsellours , Judges , Justices , &c. then in place , and we cryed out of it before this Parliament , as an intolerable griveance and mischeif to the good subjects of this Kingdome , because men but suspected of Popery , or whose Wives were Papists , were in places of publike trust ( for by that meanes Papists were brought off , and such as were cald Puritants , felt their power upon all occasions ) no more can the Orthodox Presbyterians expect right , justice , from Sectarian Counsellors , Justices of Peace , &c. especially in differences between them and Independents ; for all Sectaries looke upon cordiall Presbyterians with a greater eye of malignity , jealousie , particular interest then any other sort of men ; and therefore to strengthen their owne party , will weaken and discourage them all they can possibly . There were some Independents , that dining in June last at the house of a Presbyterian who married an Independent , were speaking of the Presbyterians , that generally all of them desired that help might goe for Ireland , and that on the Fast day in June they preached and prayed much for help to relieve Ireland , and among other Ministers they named one that should pray thus , or to this effect , That now Oxford was taken , all might goe , Lord let them all goe : These Independents said the Presbyterians had some design sure , they were so earnest for the Army to goe to Ireland ; but some of the Independents said , they had something else , or other use for the Army then to goe to Ireland . The Sectaries in the Moneth of May last raged extremely , and spake desperately , so that a Common-Councell man who had heard many of them speak , told me he had said to some of them , that they must provide Bedlam for them : The newes of the Kings going to the Scots , the Remonstrance of the City of London , with some other things that fell out that Moneth , vexed them terribly ; one Sectary a kind of Gentleman belonging to a Parliament man said in the hearing of some , that the King , the House of Lords , the City , the Scots , and the Assembly were joyned together , but they had the House of Commons and the Army ; and gave out some such words as if some three or foure thousand horse should billet in the City : This man was had before my Lord Major for these words , and I being told of it by one who went to my Lord Majors with him , I also having an opportunity asked my Lord Major of the truth of it , who remembred there was such a thing . God grant the King , House of Lords , City , Scots , Assembly be well joyned together , and agreeing ; and not only King , Lords , &c. but the House of Commons also : The Lord send a perfect Peace and Union between the King and both Houses , and give a good understanding and agreement alwayes between Parliament , Citie , Assembly , our Brethren of Scotland . These kind of speeches of the Commons and the Army put by themselves , as divided from the House of Lords , City , &c. are words of sedition ; but to vindicate the honour of the House of Commons and the Army from such speeches as these , too frequent in the mouths of many Sectaries : I can assure the Kingdome from the mouths of many worthy Members of the House of Commons , and of Commanders in the Army , how much soever these Sectaries presume upon the House of Commons , calling them in many * Pamphlets of late , Their owne House of Commons , our House of Commons , and upon the Army , that they are Independents and for that party , that the greatest number of Members of that House by farre , are no Sectaries , and though some are crept in among them , Yet the body of the House are neither Independents , Anabaptists , Antinomians , nor such like ; and so in the Army there are more Presbyterians then Independents , yea if the Army were divided into four parts , three parts of the four are no Independents , Anabaptists , Antinomians , &c. and therefore I hope to see the day of King , Lords , Commons , Scots , City of London , Armies , the body of the Kingdome , all concurring for the setlement of the Reformed Protestant Religion , and for the extirpating of Heresie , Schisme , Prophanesse , and all Doctrine which is not according to godlinesse . A Citizen , an able understanding man , related to me and two Citizens within these few dayes , that he and a great Independent speaking together about the King , this Citizen urged that branch of the Covenant , That we have sworn to defend the Kings Person and Authority , and to maintain His just power and greatnesse ; the Independent replyed presently , what was his just power ? suppose ( saith this Independent ) there were a theife , and you should make a Covenant with him to maintaine his just priviledges , what of that ? might you not for all that bring him to punishment ? labouring to bring him to the Gallows were his just priviledges , and no breach of Covenant : whereupon said this Citizen , Is this your interpretation of the Covenant ? I would never have taken it whilst the world stood in that sense ; and further said this Citizen , when this Covenant was made and sworne , what ever you can say against the King , as raising Wars against the Parliament , and what ever else you imagine , It was before this Covenant was taken ; you knew as much of him before as now ; so that t is strange you should speak so : And then this Citizen reasoned with this Independent against punishing the King , David was guilty of Murther and Adultery , and there were then Elders of the people , Princes and Judges in Israel as well as now , and yet none of them offered to question David upon his life , or inflict punishment : neither do we find that God by the prophets gave any such direction to punish David , though by the Law death was due for Murther to other men : we know God sent the prophet Nathan to reprove him , and to bring him to repentance for his great sinne , but not to stirre up the Princes , Judges and Elders of the people to proceed against him , as they did against Malefactors . A Relation and Discovery of the Libertinisme and Atheisme , horrible fearfull uncleannesses of severall kinds , Drunkunnesse , generall Loosenesse and licentiousnesse of living , Cosening and Deceiving both of particular persons and of the State and Kingdome , fearfull Lying , Jugling and falsifying of promises , abominable Pride and boasting in the Arms of flesh , unsufferable Insolencies and horrible misdemeanors of many Sectaries of these times ; particularly their Insolencies against the Lawes of the Land , the King , the House of Lords , House of Commons , some particular worthy Members by name of both Houses , Committees of both Houses , both Houses of Parliament as conjunct in their Authority and Ordinances , against our Brethren of Scotland , the Kingdom of Ireland , the City of London , the Assembly , the whole Ministery of this Kingdom , and all the Reformed Churches , against inferior Magistrates and Courts , as the Judges , Justices of Peace , Majors of Cities , Committes , and all sorts of Officers of Justice . THe Particulars in all these kinds are so many and so infinite , that particularly to reckon them up and give their story , would fill a great volume , and I have already in the foregoing part of the Book given some instances in most of them , and therefore I shall but breifly point at , and give hints only upon these severall heads , referring the Reader for further satisfaction to many Pamphlets and Books daily printed and openly sold , and to his own observation of things . 1. The great Libertinisme and Atheisme of many Sectaries appears by their violent and feirce pleading for by word and writing a free Liberty and Toleration of all kind of Religions and Consciences whatsoever , and that not only in lesser points of Doctrine , but in the most fundamentall Articles of Faith , yea and of denying the Scriptures , and that there is a God , and by the pleading for Liberty in such away , and by such mediums , viz. that no man is infallible and certaine in any thing he holds , that t is possible he may be mistaken , &c. as do necessarily overthrow all Religion whatsoever . There have been within these few yeers some scores of Books written wholly for Toleration and pretended Liberty , and some hundred of Books wherein that 's pleaded for , together with other things , and so farre are the Sectaries gone in Libertinisme * that all true love , piety , Religion , conscience , is placed in a generall allowance of what mens corrupted and defiled consciences like , and the greatest sinne , wickednesse , evill that men can commit or be capable of , is placed in the using of good means and the power God hath given to hinder and restraine this Liberty . There is a Book called Toleration justified , printed 1646. asserteth t is not safe to put any bounds to Toleration , or to restraine in any thing whatsoever , no not in denying the Scriptures and a Deity . There is a Pamphlet A Demurre to the Bill for preventing the growth and spreading of Heresie , that came out lately since that Ordinance against Heresies was brought in to the H. of Commons , that pleads page 3. with many Libertine Arguments against all punishing of those that maintaine there is no God , as among others with this . We beseech you let not God and the truth of his being be so excessively disp●raged as not to be judged sufficient to maintaine it against all gainsayers , without the helpe of any earthly power to maintaine it . Let Turks and those that beleeve in strange gods , which are 〈…〉 gods , make use of such power and infirme supporters of their supposed d 〈…〉 s ; but let the truth of our God , the only God , the omnipotent God , be judged abundantly able to support it self : t is a tacit imputation of in 〈…〉 s to imagine it hath need of our weake and impotent assistance . There are Queres concerning a printed Paper , entituted , An Ordinane for the preventing and growing of Heresies , &c. where among many Libertine questions , the second proclaims it self to be Scepticall and Ath●isticall , supposing except men make themselves infallible , that the preaching , printing , and maintaining contrary to these Doctrines That God is , that God is present in all places , that God is Almighty , that God is eternall , perfectly holy , &c. may be the sacred truths of God for ought any man knowes . There have beene and are daily many strange speeches uttered , wholly tending to Libertinisme and Atheisme : A Reverend godly Minister told me July the fourth 1646. he heard and Independent say , what if I should worship the Sunne or the Moone , as the Persians did , or that Pewter Pot standing by , what hath any man to do with my conscience ? A great Sectary pleaded in the hearing of persons of worth ( from whom I immediately had it ) for a Toleration of Stage-playes , and that the Players might be set up againe . I heard a Sectary plead for a Toleration of Witches , and I urging that argument , that Witches might say , they in their conscience hold the Devill for their God , and thereupon worship him ; it was answered , that precept against not suffering Wirches was spoken to the Israelites , not to us ; and will you because Witches deale with a familiar spirit , therefore send them to the Devill by taking away their lives ? Many Sectaries often say , that all the judgements of God upon us , are , because we will not receive the Government of of Christ , suffer it to be set up among us , viz. to let every one beleeve what he will , and serve God according to his conscience ; as also they say , if ever the Magistrates shall come to use a co 〈…〉 cive power in matters of Religion , then this Kingdome will bee utterly destroyed . I might also relate some strange passages out of speeches spoken not long since by some Independents as Master Sympson in the Assembly , and elsewhere too , for a Toleration , but I for be are , and wish the Reader to remember some passages related in foregoing pages of this Book , especially that in page 175. 2. Many of the Independents and Sectaries of these times are guilty of many kinds of uncleannesses ; First , of Incest , of which out of one Country I have the names of three sent me up , and attested by the hand of a godly Minister , one who ma 〈…〉 ed the mother , and afterwards the daughter , 〈◊〉 this liberty of consciences ; mother marrying his owne brothers wife , and the third marrying his brothers wife : I have beene informed also for 〈…〉 taine by a Gentleman of quality in Kent , that a great Sectary in Kent hath married his N 〈…〉 . It hath been related to me also of one in London 〈◊〉 of the like 〈…〉 d ; but I may not enlarge , having exceeded already the number of sheets I intended , and having yet many things to 〈◊〉 of . Secondly , of wicked and ungodly matriages , leaving their owne husbands and wives , and taking others to live with them , as Master Jenney and Mistrisse Attaway ; and so that New-England Captaine who was about another wife , his wife being living , of which the Reader may read page 94. and so others of them living wholly from their wives , not coming at them , denying they have been married to them , or else saying they are unbeleevers , and of the world , of which I could give stories , as of one M. and in a precedent page of this Book the Reader may finde more ; And for ungodly marriages some Sectaries are guilty of entising children to marry unequally in regard of yeers , and without Parents consents , taking advantage of sicknesse , &c. of which there is a remarkable story in this book of Mary Abraham a notorious Sectary , page 82 , 83 , 84 , 85. And lately a Widow , an Anabaptist about forty yeers of age , intangled and inveagled a youth of about nineteene yeeres of age , and married him without his father ever knowing or imagining any such thing ; This youths father lives in Swithins parish , and Mr. Knowls the Anabaptist ( as t is said ) married them . Thirdly , of● rapes and forcing young maidens too young for the company of men , of which I could tell some sad stories of Independents in New-England in this kind , and upon whose daughters ; but I forbeare out of my respect to the Parents . Fourthly , of adulteries and fornications , and if I should here set downe all the instances in this kind that I have had from good hands , and relate the stories at large , I should fill some sheets . There are divers of the Dippers and mecanick Preachers of the Sectaries , not onely shroudly suspected for filthinesse and uncleannesses , but some of them accused by women , and have beene so taken as they could not well deny it . There is a famous Sectarian Preacher in the Isle of Ely betweene a Cobler and a Shoemaker , who is now accused by many women for tempting them , and solliciting their chastity , and one woman cries out of him for being naught with her , and 〈◊〉 distracted upon it . There is a Fidler here in London a great preacher , to whom many women resore , that hath beene taken in the act , and hath in a manner confessed it . There is one of the first Dippers in England , one of the first that brought up the trade , of whom I heard a modest and good woman say that had observed his filthy behaviour ( he resorting often to her house upon some acquaintance formerly betweene her husband and him , though indeed for the wives sake as she plainly discovered , and so could not endure him ) that it was no wonder he and many such turned Dippers to dip young maids and young women naked , for it was the fittest trade to serve their turns that could be , and no question but it was found out and propagated with so much industry as being fed by lust , that a company of uncleane men under the pretence of Religion , might have thereby faire opportunities to feed their eyes full of adultery in beholding young women naked , and in handling young women naked , being about them in dressing and undressing them ; and indeed Saint Peter speaking and prophecying of the Anabaptists , 2 Epist . chap. 2. verse 10 , 11 , 12. ( viz. those who despise Dominion , and speak evill of Dignities , as we see our Anabaptists do of all Kingly government , and Lordly government , despising both King and Lords , and being presumptuous and self-willed in it , as is evident by their sayings and doings ) tells us these men are uncleane persons , walk in lusts of uncleannesse , have eyes full of adultery that cannot cease from sinne , and that he makes the ground of their beguiling unstable soules , verse . 14. T is observed there have been and are a company of lusty young men betweene twenty and and thirty yeeres of age that are Dippers , and their cheif commodity they trade in , is in young maidens and youdg women , and that in the night oft-times , and these fellowes living in idlenesse , going from Country to Country , being feasted and well fed , and having converse so much with women in preaching to them alone , and washing them , what can be expected else but a great deale of filthinesse ? and thereupon I have beene told it from a godly Minister who came out of those parte in Essex , where Oats hath beene dipping , that it was spoken of by many , that some young women who having beene married divers yeeres , and never were with child , now si●ce their dipping are proved with child . There was a Sectaries wife with me who showed me severall Letters written from Sectaries to other mens wives , Sectaries , to tempt them from their husbands ; shee had intercepted the Letters that shee might the better discover her husbands naughtinesse , shee told me the names of the women and of the men , and intreated me to move some Parlia . men that there might be a Committee appointed , and shee would produce the Letters , bring witnesses that should upon ●ath discover such uncleannesses and wickednesses among some Anabaptists and Seekers as could hardly be beleeved : I moved a worthy Member of the House of Commons about it , who told me the House was full of publike businesses and would hardly intend to appoint any such Committee , and if the House should , there would come little of it , for these Sectaries would finde such freinds at a Committee , as it should go hard but they would obstruct it one way or other . There is a famous shee Sectary , an Antinomian , and an Anabaptist that living in ones house here in London , was a meanes to turn the woman of the house , and shee being converted , did highly extall this Sectary for her rare gifts and new light to all shee conversed with , but this womans husband coming out of the Army , this famous Sectary was naught with him , and they were taken in the act ; this is knowne to many in London , and some to whom shee had ●o commended her , askt her what shee thought now . In Bermondsey Parish there is a Sectary hath committed adultery with another mans wife , and for it he hath beene before a Justice of Peace , and could not deny it . There is an Independent Preacher who hath lectured in and about London one of M. Greenhils Church ( as t is commonly said ) who hath carried himselfe unchastly towards a young woman having a husband an old man , and towards a young maiden who was to warm his bed after Preaching , he did things unseemly , and would have gone further , but the married wife acquainted her husband , abominating this young Independent , saying , does he thinke I am such a one as to be his whore ? and the young maiden to resist him burnt his hands with the warming-Pan to keep him off from her . There are divers other instances of their uncleannesse and filthines ; but I must reserve them for a fourth part , and wish the Reader for the present with the●e here related to joyne other such relations of the sectaries uncleannesses as are mentioned in the former parts of Gangraena , and in precedent pages of this third part . 3. Many of the Sectaries in these times are given to drink and wil fit tippling all the day ; there are divers Sectarian Troopers faulty in this kind : I have been told a story of the drunkennes of an Independent Captain in the Army , and of the complaint against him , and how he was brought off and continued in his command for al that , but t is too large to relate particulars . A godly Minister tels me of a speciall freind of his , that is fallen to be a drunkard and a sot since turned an Independent . I have beene told a story of an Independent , a member of a famous Independ . Church here in London , that was taken drunk in the night by the Watch , and carried to the Counter , and next morning carried before an Alderman . Many other instances there are , with instances of many drunkards turning Independents and Anabaptists , but I must passe them by for present . 4. Many Sectaries and Independents are very loose in the generall course of their lives , and take a great deale of liberty , which the Presbyterians dare not take , neither did they before they turned Independents : many of them make little of the Lords day , nothing at all of Fast dayes , nor of Thanksgiving dayes , not of the fifth of November ; many of them will play at Cards and Tables , and use liberally other kind of sports and recreations ; they will plead for going to Playes , and thousands of them are carelesse in all holy duties , casting of Prayer , singing of Psalmes , reading the Scriptures , repeating of Sermons , instructing their families ; yea , many are not ashamed to speak against them : I have beene told for certaine there are Sectaries will sweare by their tender consciences , and all the Sectaries generally take more liberty in brave and fashionable apparell , in long haire , in jesting and laughing , in loose and idle discourses , then godly strict Christians use to take , many of them preach seldomer then before turned Independents , and will have a care they take not too much paines . 5. Many Sectaries are very guilty in cosening and deceiving both the publike and particular persons : I am perswaded if all that the Sectaries have cozened the State in , of monyes that they have received and never brought in , of moneys paid them for such services which they never performed , of monyes paid them for bad commodities , and not valuable , were known , it would amount to a great masse of money : I have been told divers stories from good hand● , of moneys received in Kent by Sectaries and never brought in to the publike but pocketed up , of some Sectarian Chaplaines that have received for pay good summs of money , and never gave the Regiments to which they belonged a Sermon , or ever looked after them , of two Sectaries that would have hired a poor man to have sworne falsly against a woman one Mistris B. by which they hoped to have gotten fiftie pounds , of a great Independent , who mingled with Silver base mettle , of lead , brasse , iron , and so carried it into the Tower in great Ingots to be melted , and to have money according to the weight of it , and is now in question for it he being at last found out ; but I cannot stand to enlarge any further , and the Reader may find more instances in this kind in the Appendix of the first part of Gangraena , and in this third part , page 25. and 26. 6. The Sectaries are guilty of grosse lying , slandring , jugling , falsifying their word and promises , so that a great Book would not contain the particulars , and I have thoughts to set them forth in a Tractate by themselves : I could relate at large notorious lyes raised by some of them of godly Ministers of the Assembly and City , of which not the least colour or ground for , as also promises and engagements made by some of them to persons of worth , Ministers and others , upon their coming in and being chosen for places , which they have not only not performed , but afterwards boldly denyed any such promises , with many things of this kind . I could tell also of propagating and supporting the credit of the Independent party by many lies told in Pulpits , written in Letters , and printed on purpose of the great valour and gallantry of such and such Sectaries in the Army , when as Presbyterian Commanders performed these very services ; and of many Relations Printed of such and such unworthy things done by Presbyterian forces and Commanders , when no such matter ; but I must for beare particulars , and for present do referre the Reader to Master Pryns Lyar Confounded , to Master Calamics Answer , and Apologie against Master Burton , to Doctor Bastwicks Books written against the Independents , and particularly his Book written against Lilburne , and his last Book entituled The utter-routing of the whole Army of the Independents and Sectaries ; page 357 , 358. 7. The Sectaries are guilty of excessive pride , boasting and trusting in Armes of flesh , as in that Army under Sir Thomas Fairfax ; I do not think that in this latter age of the world , the great Tuck , the Spaniard , or any other Nation , have gloried and trusted more in any one Army of theirs , or attributed greater things to it then the Independents have done to that which they call theirs : O how strangely have they boasted and trusted in it , as if humane things were not changeable , as if that Army could conquer all the world , recover the Palatinate , Ireland , and give Laws to France , Lorraine , Constantinople , &c. and do whatsoever they pleased : I have beene told from an honest and faithfull Commander in the Army , that Master Peters speaking of the Army , said , they wanted nothing but more Nations to conquer , and his folly in this kind is extant in print , of which the Reader may find some Animadversions upon it by me in the 133 , 134. 142. pages of this Book . I might fill a Book in relating the passages in Discourses , Sermons , and printed Books , spoken in way of boasting of this Army and of particular persons belonging to it of the Independent way , calling one Infallible , the Saviour of three Kingcomes ; a second , the Terrible , a third , whom God hath especially fitted for Sea or Land , one whom foraigne States would be proud of having such a servant , and so of others ; but I will only point at some expressions in a late Book of Master Burtons , called Conformities Deformity , wherein the Army is in a sort deified , page 17 , 18. speaking of pressing the Parliament for an Ordinance against Heresies and Schismes , he speaks what this Ordinance would do against those men who have prodigally poured their dearest bloud , viz. trample upon them , and not suffer them to breath in their native aire , and thereupon runs out in the extolling of that sort of men in the Army , that by them we yet breath , that they have beene the preservers of the Land , that many glorious victories have made them admirable to the neighbour Nations , yea to the whole world , and terrible to their professed enemies and ours ; yea , and to pretended freinds too , who would master us at home , were not these masters of the feild : God hath made them the great instruments of the preservation and deliverance of our Country and City from the most desperate bloudy and beastiall enemies that ever the earth bred , or hell hatched . God hath vouchsafed to cast great favour and honour upon them , and as he hath crowned them with so much glory , and they have ●ast their crownes at the feet of the Lamb that sits upon the Throne : So should we come and first giving all the glory to God , gather up those crownes , and set them upon the heads of those our Preservers and Deliverers , and put chains about their necks ; so far off should we be from trampling such Pearles under foot , or casting them out of our Gates and Ports . 8. The Sectaries are guilty of unsufferable Insolencies , horrible affronts to Authority , and of strange outrages , having done those things , that all things considered ▪ no story of former ages can paralell ; and here I have so large a feild that I might write a Book in Folio upon this head , but I will only give a touch upon the particulars , and referre the Reader for further satisfaction to their owne Books . 1. Some of the Sectaries have spoken and written that against the Lawes of the Land , both Common and Statute , as I beleeve neither Papists , nor any English men ever did before them : I have read divers passages of this kind , in divers Pamphlets within these two last yeers , as in some books written against Master * Pryn , but above all , Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in his Just mans Justification , page 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. and A Remonstrance to their owne House of Commons , page 13. 15. 19. damns the Common Law as coming from the Devill , and being the great bondage of England , the Norman Yoake , as the Reader may easily see by these words . That which is the greatest mischeife of all , and the oppressing bondage of England ever since the Norman Yoak , is this , I must be tried before you by a Law call'd the Common Law that I know not , nor I thinke no man else , neither do I know where to finde it or read it ; and how I can in such a ●as● be punished by it , I know not : such an unfathomable gul●e have I by a little search found the Law practises in Westminster Hall to be , that seriously I thinke there is neither end nor bottome of them , so many uncertainties , formalilities , punc●ilios , and that which is worse , all the en●ries and proceedings in Latine , a Language I understand not , nor one of a thousand of my native Country-men , so that when I read the Scripture , it makes me thinke that the practises in the Courts at Westminster flow not from God nor from his Law , nor the Law of Nature and Reason , no nor yet from the understanding of any righteous , just or honest men , but from the Devill , and the will of Tyrants . The Kings Writs that summons a Parliament , implying the establishment of Religion , showes that we remaine under the Norman yoake of an unlawfull power from which we ought to free our selves . Ye know the Lawes of this Nation are unworthy a free people , and deserve from first to last to be considered , and seriously debated , and reduced to an agreement with common equity and right reason , which ought to be the forme and life of every Government . Magna Charta it selfe being but a beggerly thing , containing many marks of intolerable bondage , and the Lawes that have beene made since by Parliaments have in very many particulars made our Government much more oppressive and intolerable . The Conquerer erected a trade of Judges and Lawyers to sell justice and injustice at his owne unconscionable rate , and in what time he pleased ; the corruption whereof is yet upon us , from which we thought you should have delivered us , we cannot but expect to be delivered from the Norman bondage , and from all unreasonable Lawes made ever since that unhappy conquest ; By which passages t is evident the Sectaries aime at a totall change of the Laws and Customs of this Kingdom . 2. They have spoken and written much against the King , speaking of him as a Delinquent , terming him the great Delinquent : and that he should not come in but as a Delinquent ; when news hath beene of messages and gracious offers from the King , and when his late Letter to the City was spoken of , they have slighted all , saying we can have them without him , and what can he do for us ? he is a Delinquent . They have taken one of his titles from him and given it to that unworthy mean man Lilburne , stiling him Defendor of the Faith ; they have taken other of his Titles , as Soveraign , Leige Lord , Majesty , Kingship , Regality , and given them to the H. of Commons , and to the common people , making the Universall people to be the King & Creator , and the King their meer creature , servant and vassal ; and as they have taken from him his Titles , so his power , denying him all Legislative power , and to be one of the Estates of Parliament , yea they have pleaded for the King to be deposed , and justice to be done upon him as the grand murtherer of England , and not only that he should bee beheaded , but the Kingdome also , viz. this Kingdome deprived of a King for ever , and Monarchie turned into Democracie . And as they have endeavoured to strip him of all his Titles and power as a King , so to take from him all priviledges as a man and a Christian , speaking against Ministers praying for him , and that he should be excommunicated from all Christian society . For proofe of which particulars let the Reader read over the late * Remonstrance of many thousand Citiznes to their owne House of Commons , and among other passages , that in page 6. It is high time we be plaine with you : we are not , nor shall not be so contented that you lie ready with open Armes to receive the King , and to make him a great and a glorious King. Have you shooke this Nation like an Earth-quake to produce no more then this for us ? We do expect according to reason that you should in the first place declare and set forth King Charles his wickednesse open before the world , and withall to show the intolerable inconveniencies of having a Kingly Government , from the constant evill practises of those of this Nation , and so to declare King Charles an en 〈…〉 my , and to publish your resolution never to have any more , but to acquit us of so great a charge and trouble for ever ; and to convert the great rev 〈…〉 w of the Crowne to the publike treasure , to make good the injuries and injustices done heretofore , and of late by those that have possessed the same ; and that we expected long since at your hands , and untill this be done , we shall not thinke our selves well dealt withall in this originall of all oppressions , to wit , Kings . The Just mans Justification , page 10. I wish with all my soule the Parliament would seriously consider upon that Law , Who so sheddeth mans bloud , by man shall his bloud be shed , that so wilfull murtherers might not escape the hand of Justice , but especially that they would thinke upon the grand murtherer of England ; for by this impartiall Law of God there is no exemption of Kings , Princes , Dukes , Earles , more then of fishermen , &c. The Arrow against all Tyrants , page 11 , 12. Soveraignity challenged by the King is usurpation , illegitimate and illegall , &c. The power of the King cannot be Legislative , but only Executive . So Overtons Defiance to the House of Lords : Overtons Petition and Appeale to the High and mighty States , the Knights and Burgesset in Parliament Assembled Englands Legall Soveraign● power : The last warning to the Inhabitants of London , with divers such like . 3. The Sectaries have spoken , written , done much against the House of Peeres , the supreme Judicature of this Kingdome , that House which gives to the Parliaments of England ▪ the denomination of the * High Court of Parliament , as t is a Court of Record , and having power of judiciall triall by oath , &c. of the greatest subjects of this Kingdome in the greatest matters , as life , estates , liberty , whose Tribunall and Power hath ever beene acknowledged and dreaded in this Kingdom in all times by the greatest Peeres and persons of the Land , and when questioned by them , have given all high respect and humble submission , as we see that great Favorite the Earle of Strafford did ; yet this Supreme Court hath beene by word and deed so used by base unworthy sonnes of the earth , as the 〈…〉 st Court in England , or p 〈…〉 iest Constable never was till these times ; and certainly the ages to come who shall read the History of these times , and the Books of the Sectaries written this last yeere against the House of Lords , will wonder at our times , and inquire what exemplary punishment was done upon them : The facts of some Sectaries ( abetted and pleaded for also by other of their fellows ) have been these . 1. Refusing upon the Summons , Warrants of the House of Peeres to appeare before them , and resisting to the utmost , so that the Officers have been necessitated to drag them and bring them by force , as Overton , who in print is not ashamed to relate it : 〈◊〉 . When they have beene committed and under custody , refusing to be brought by their Keepers to the House of Peeres upon command of the House , to answer to their charge , as Lilburne did , keeping his chamber shut , refusing to come forth , and resisting to the utmost , so that glad to carry him by power to the House of Lords , which relation also Lilburne hath printed . 3. In refusing to answer any questions put them by the House of Peeres . 4. In refusing to kneele at the Barre in token of any submission to the House , or to be uncovered . 5. In appealing from , and protesting against the House of Peeres , and any power they have over them both by word of mouth and writing drawn up , and thrown into the House . 6. In stopping their eares in a contemptuous manner , that they would not heare their charge read . 7. In reproving , sawcie taking up , and reproaching the House of Peeres to their faces in the House . 8. In Petitioning the House of Commons for justice against the House of Peeres , and for reparations of dammages , using many reproachfull words of that Right Honourable House even in their Petitions , as is to be seene in Overtons , John Lilburnes and Elizabeth Lilburnes Petitions . 9. Threatning the House of Peeres what they will do against them if they maintaine their power and honour , and what the house of Commons will do . 10. Stirring up and inciting the common People also to fall upon them , to pull them downe , and overthrow that House . The Speeches and writings of the Sectaries against the House of Peeres within this last sixe moneths or thereabouts , ever since the commitment of Learner about The last warning to the inhabitants of London , are fearfull and strange ( many Pamphlets having beene written in that time ) tending apparently to the totall overthrow of the House of Peeres , and of having any Lords in this Kingdome , denying them all Legislative and Judiciall Power , and giving it all to the House of Commons , or rather to that Beast of many heads , the common People , allowing the Commons only so much as they please , and for so long , making them their meer deputies and servants at will , I shall give the Reader a few passages out of their Books , and referre for further satisfaction to the Books themselves . A Pamphlet entituled The Just man in Bonds , writes thus , pag. 1. The power of the House of Lords is like a shallow uneven water , more in noyse then substance , no naturall issues of Lawes , but the extub●rances and mushromes of Prerogative , the wens of Just Government , putting the body of the people into pain , as well as occasioning deformity , Sons of conquest they are and usurpation , not of choyce and election , intruded upon us by power , not constituted by consent , not made by the people from whom all power , place , and office that is just in this Kingdome ought only to arise . A Pamphlet call'd A Pearle in a Dung-hill , pag. 3 , 4. speaks thus : And why presume ye thus , O ye Lords ? Set forth your merit before the people , and say , For this good it is that we will raigne over you . Remember your selves , or shall we remember ye ? Which of you before this Parliament minded any thing so much as your pleasures ? Playes , Masques , Feastings , Gaming 's , Dancings ? &c. What good have you done since this Parliament , and since the expulsion of the Popish Lords and Bishops ? where will you begin ? It was wont to be said when a thing was spoyl'd , that the Bishops foot had been in it ; and if the Lords mend not , it will be said of them , and justly too . For what other have they been but a meer clog to the House of Commons in all their proceedings ? How many necessary things have they obstructed ? How many evill things promoted ? What devices have they had of Prudentialls and Expedients , to delay and pervert what is good , and subtle policies to introduce things evill ? The Pamphlet call'd An Alarum to the House of Lords , pag. 4. speaking of the Lords imprisoning Lilburne , and removing him from Newgate to the Tower of London , saith , Whether to murther him privately from the peoples knowledge , we cannot tell ; but we judge little lesse : And in pag. 5. speaking of the Lords giving order that none must see Lilburne in the Tower , but they must first given in their names , & the places of their habitation , uses these words , An act so unreasonable and destructive to us , that we cannot but take notice of it , and let you know , That we cannot , neither will we suffer such intolerable affronts at your hands . If timely cautions will not availe with you , you must expect to be bridled ; for wee are resolved upon our naturall Rights and Freedomes , and to be enslaved to none , how Magnificent soever with rotten Titles of Honor. For doe you imagine there is none abroad of his mind , who though he were dead , and destroyed by you , would prosecute those works and discoveries of the Peoples Rights , which hee hath begun ? Yes , more then you are aware of , that can , nay , and are resolved to paint forth your Interest to the life , if you will not content your selves the sooner with what 's your owne , and leave the Commoners to the Commons . The Remonstrance of many thousands to their own House of Commons , pag. 6 , 7. speaks thus to them : Yee must also deale better with us concerning the Lords , then you have done : Ye onely are chosen by us the People , and therefore in you onely is the power of binding the whole Nation , by making , altering , or abolishing of Lawes : Ye have therefore prejudiced us , in acting so , as if ye could not make a Law without both the Royall assent of the King ( so ye are pleased to expresse your selves ) and assent of the Lords ; What is this but to blind our eyes that we should not know where our power is lodged , nor to whom we apply our selves for the use thereof ; but if we want a Law , wee must await till the King and Lords assent ? yet ye knowing their assent to be meerly formall , as having no root in the choyce of the people , from whom the power that is just must be derived , do frequently importune their assent , which implies a most grosse absurdity . For where their assent is necessary and essentiall , they must be as free as you to assent , or dissent , as their understanding and consciences shall guide them , and might as justly importune you as you them . Ye ought in conscience to reduce this case also to a certainty , and not to waste time , and open your counsels , and be liable to so many obstructions as ye have beene , But to prevail with them ( enjoying their Honors and possessions ) to be liable , and stand to be chosen for Knights and Burgesses of the people , as other the Gentry and Free-men of this Nation doe , which will be an obligation upon them , as having one and the lame interest , then also they would be distinguished by their vertue and love to the Common-wealth , whereas now they Act and Vote in our Affairs but as Intruders , or as thrust upon us by Kings to make good their Interests , which to this day have beene to bring us into a ●lavish condition to their wills . Lilburne in his F 〈…〉 s freedome Vindicated , p. 7 , 8 , 9. speaks thus , I must be forced to d●nce at●endance contrary to Law , to answer a Charge without for 〈…〉 or fashion in Law at the Barre of the House of Peeres , who know very well , or at least might know , that I knew as well as any of themselves their power , jurisdiction , and Prerogative Fountaine from whence they spring ; and calls the Lords the meere Creature of the peoples Creature , the King ; and the common people the earthly Lord and Creator of the Lords Creator ; and saith that in the Honorable House of Commons alone by right resides the formall and legall supreme power of England . Overton in his Arrow shot into the Prerogative Bowels of the Arbitrary House of Lords ( as he calls it ) showes page 10. how he denied subjection to the Lords , affirming , that if their Officers had sh●wn a thousand such Warrants to him as they did , he would have accounted them all illegall , Antimagisteriall and void in Law , as having no power over Commoners which are not their Peeres , and thereupon stirs up the people to Arme themselves , fortifie their houses , to ●eat , wound , and kill their officers that come to fetch them before the Lords , and then turnes his speech to the House of Commons , Why therefore should you of the Representative body sit still and suffer these Lords thus to devoure both us and our Lawes ? Be awakned , arise and consider their oppressions and encroachments , and stop their Lordships in their ambitious careere , for they doe not cease only here , but they soare higher and higher , and now they are become Arrogators to themselves of the naturall soveraignity the Represented have conveyed and issued to their proper Representors , even challenge to themselves the title of the supremest Court of judicature in this Land , and in page 11 , 12. Overton saith further , Therefore the Soveraigne power extending no further then from the Represented to the Representors , al this kind of soveraignity challenged by any , whether of King , Lords , or others , is usurpation , illegitimate and illegall , and none of the Kingdomes or peoples , neither are the people thereto obliged : Thus seeing the Legislative power is only from the Represented to the Representors , and cannot possibly further extend , the power of the King cannot be Legislative , but only Executive , and hee can communicate no more then hee hath himself , so that his meere Prerogative creatures cannot have that which their Lord and Creator never had , hath , or can have , namely the Legislative power : Indeed all other Courts might as well challenge that Prerogative of Soveraignity , yea better then this Court of Lords . But and if any Court or Courts in this Kingdome should arrogate to themselves that dignity to be the Supreme Court of Judicatory of the Land , it would be judged no lesse then high treason , to wit , for an inferior subordinate power to advance and exalt it selfe above the power of the Parliament . The same Overton in a Pamphlet entituled A Defiance against all Arbitrary usurpations either of the House of Lords or any other , page 5. saith , And though I be in their Prerogative clutches , and by them unjustly cast into the prison of Newgate for standing for my owne and my Countries rights and freedomes , I care not who lets them know that I acknowledge non● other to be the Supreme Court of Judicature of this Land but the House of Commons , the Knights and Burgesses assembled in Parliament by the voluntary choyce and free election of the people thereof , with whom and in whose just defence I le live and die , maugre the malice of the House of Lords ; and in page 18. he in way of de●ision calls the Lords House the Superlative House , and speaking of the Lords laughing at his answers , he saith of that House such carriage such a Court ; For indeed Comedies , Tragedies , Masks and Playes are more fit for such idle kind of men . And above all other Demonstrations of the outragious insolencies of the Sectaries against the House of Peeres , let the Reader peruse that Pamphlet entituled An Anatomy of the Lords tyranny and injustice exercised upon Lieutenant Colonel Lilburne , which is throughout insolent both for matter and manner , particularly page 12 , 13. Lilburne writes that he being in the painted Chamber , desired Master Brisco , one of his Keepers , to go and tell the Lords from him , that seeing they had the impudencie and boldnesse to tread the Lawes and Liberties of England under their feet , and did so contemne and undervalue the authority of the Honorable House of Commons to whom he had appealed , as yet to go on in their illegall courses with him , with whom by Law they had nothing to doe , that he must be forced in the highest nature he could to contemne and despise their proceedings ; and therefore was resolved not to come to their Bar without a forcible compulsion and to come in with his hat on his head , and to stop his eares when they read his charge in detestation , and bearing witnesse against their usurpations and injustice , page 14 , 15. Lilburne writes he thus spake to the Lords . And my Lords I tell you to your faces , that by right the House of Commons are your Judges as well as mine in this case , and I doe not doubt but to live to see the day that they will make you to know whether you will or no , that they are so , and of their justice and protection I doe not in the least doubt : And therefore my Lords seeing you have dealt so illegally and tyrannically with me as you have done ; I now bid defiance to your power and malice to doe the worst you can . And therefore my Lords I protest here before the God of Heaven and earth , if you shall be so unworthy as to persevere in endeavouring the destruction of the fundamentall Lawes and Liberties of England , as at present you doe , I will venture my life and bloud against you to oppose you with as much zeale and courage as ever I did any of the Kings party , that you set us together by the eares with : page 21. Lilburne saith all his catriage and expressions before the House of Lords in the case now betwixt them to be as justifiable by the Law of this Kingdome , and in the eyes of all understanding men as for a true and just man to draw his sword , and cut the theif or rogue that sets upon him upon the high-way on purpose to rob him of his life and goods , and in page 23. hee earnestly beseeches the Honorable Committee to remember the Commoners , and improve all their interest to punish , or at least effectually to curb the Lords House . Thus the Sectaries in their Petitions and all their Pamphlets printed , speaking of the Lords House and of their proceedings , they give such kind of termes as these , Barbarous , Tyrannicall , Arbitrary , Illegall , unjust dealings , worse then the unjust Stat-chamber it selfe , Insolent unheard of usurpations , intrusions , and many such like . And in divers Pamphlets now of late the Parliament being spoken of , is understood only the Commons of England , & they call'd the Parliament by way of exclusion of and opposition to the H. of Peers , and Books written on purpose and dispersed , given freely to stir up the people to adhere to the Comons as considered apart and distinct in interest , power from the Lords , with unworthy reflections upon the Lords , as The last warning to all the Inhabitants of London , p. 7. Mind your own good , and cleave fast to the House of Commons , let no sorcery or sophistry divide you from them , the Lords are not to go before the Commons in determining what concerns the Nations ; their large answer to your last City Petition for Church-government , and suppression of Conventicles insinuates they would allure you from the Commons ; therefore observe them watchfully , and trust them accordingly . So A word in season to all sorts of well-minded people in this distracted Nation , with Answers to the City Remonstrance , and divers other Pamphlets , 4. The Sectaries have been guilty of and daily are of abusing , contemning , and taking away the power of the House of Commons given it by the Lawes , Constitutions and Customes of this Kingdome , and though in many Pamphlets ( especially this last yeere ) they cry up the House of Commons , and seeme to give them not only their owne power , but the power of the King and House of Lords , making both them meere ciphers ; yet it will be found by many of their principles laid downe , they have destroyed the House of Commons , and doe break their Priviledges , speak their pleasure of them both by words and writing as often as they please . Many Pamphlets and whole Books have beene written by Sectaries against the House of Commons it selfe , ( and not only against Committees or particular Members ) charging the House with tyranny , injustice , oppression , horrible pride , seeking of particular interests , Arbitrary Governm 〈…〉 , breaking of Magna Charta , and going against the Liberties of the subject , resembling them to the Star-chamber , High Commission Court , to Strafford and Canterbury , refusing to answer any questions upon the command of the House , scorning to Petition the Commons either to sue for their favour , or to acknowledge their justice ; and after such favour shown as to release without petitioning , yet taxing them with dishonesty , and demanding reparations for imprisonment ; for the abundant proofe of which I referre the Reader to many Pamphlets written by Sectaries , as Englands Birthright , The Copie of a Letter from Lieutenant Colonel Lilburne to a friend , Lilburnes Innocency and truth justified ; Englands lamentable slavery , with other Letters printed about that time : Another word to the wise , written by M. John Musgrave : A Pamphlet entituled An exact collection of the Parliaments Remonstrances , Declarations , &c. A Remonstrance of many thousand Citizens and other free , borne people of England to their owne House of Commons ; out of which I shall faithfully transcribe some passages , that the insolencies of the Sectaries against the House of Commons may be observed . Lilburn in his Letter to his freind writes thus , page 1 , 2. That Master Corbit being in the chaire , and telling him he was commanded by the House to demand a question of him , Lilburn instead of answering him , desired to know the cause of his commitment , and M. Corbit replying , the House was not bound to declare unto him the cause of his commitment , thereupon Lilburne answered , Then I have beene a long time mistaken , for had I thought that the Parliament had had no rule but their owne will to have walked by , I should never have drawne my sword for them ; and for my part I knw no difference betwixt tyranny and such proceedings ; therfore I pray read the Petition of Right , and the Act made this present Parliament that condemned the Star-chamber and High Commission . Page 5. hee writes as followes , Time was when the Parliament had to doe with the King , and had the Bishops , Star-chamber and High Commission to pull downe , they would owne me and doe me justice , &c. but having served their owne turnes of me , I never could have justice from them since , though I think I have beene as faithfull a servant to the Common-wealth as any they ever imployed ; and whereas Magna Charta saith , justice and right we will deny to 〈…〉 or we will defer to none , yet have I waited these foure yeeres upon them at great expences , and cannot get them to put their owne Votes in execution ; and if this be according to Magna Charta , let the world judge . And p. 10. speaking of the H. of Commons committing him , saith , O brave times , and brave justice ? and yet for all this , I say , my resolution is to stand fast in the liberty and freedome wherewith Magna Charta and the Petition of Right and severall Acts made this present Parliament , as also divers late Declarations have made me free , and not to be intangled againe with any yoake of bondage that shall be hung about my neck by any kind of Tyrant by what name or title soever he be dignified or distinguished . Master Musgrave a great Separatist ( as he shows himself in many passages of his Book entituled Another word to the wise ) writes thus of the House of Commons . Courteous Reader , thou maist very much wonder at the delatory and slow proceedings of the House of Commons in doing justice and right , from whom the Commons of England may justly expect more then from any Judicatory , being they are immediatly chosen by them ; and to speak properly are no more but their Stewards and servants , for whose good and benefit all their actions ought to be extended : Yet by their poceedings daily we see t is in vaine to expect justice from them , so long as they are linked and glued in factions each to other by their private interests in their great places , which ties all such amongst them to maintaine one another in all their unjust wayes , and to oppresse and crush us as much as they are able , all the prosecutors of just and righteous things , and so to barre and stop justice that it shall have little or no progresse , divers of them and their creatures , Sonnes , Brothers , Uncles , and Kinsmen , and Allies in the sub-Committees , having already committed so much unjustice that they are undone in their blazed honour and ill-gotten estates , if justice should runne in its native luster and full current , and of necessity they and their great places would quickly be destroyed . O therefore that the Free-men of England had but their eyes open to see the mischeife of Members of the House of Commons ( men of their owne election and chusing to sit in the supreme Court of England ) to be entangled themselves , or intermeddle with any other place whatsoever , then that whereunto their Countrey have chosen them ; what a shame is it to see the mercinary long gown-men of the House of Commons to runne up and down like so many ●ackney Petty-●oggers , from Bar to Bar in Westminster Hall to plead before inferiour Judges ? and besides how can such great practisers chuse but mercinarily be engaged to help their clients over a stile , in case that ever they have to doe with any of their owne Committees ? and besides what is this else but to sell justice for money ? Besides , what a snare is it to the new Judges ( who are placed in the roome of those that have bought , sold , and betraied the lives , liberties , estates of all the free Deni●ons of England ) to see three or foure eminent Lawyers , Members of the House of Commons come before them ●n an unjust cause , when they consider , that if they should displease them , it partly lies in their power to turne them out of their places , being they are ( as it were ) wholly made Judges by the House of Commons , and nominated by the Lawyers therein : we profes●e seriously that to pull the gownes over these mercinary mens eares , and for ever to throw them out of the House of Commons as men unfit to ●it there , or to plead at any Bar in England is too little a punishment for them , and the same ( we conceive ) doe they deserve that are Members of the House , and take upon them to sit as Judges in inferior Courts , by means of which they rob the free-men of England of the benefit of any appeale in case of injustice , because they have no where to appeale to but the Parliament , where they sit as Judges in their owne cause , which is a most wicked intolerable and unjust thing in any Judge whatsoever : we hope shortly that if these men be not ashamed of their evill herein , some honest and resolute hearted English man will be so bold as publickly to post up their names as destroyers of the Kingdome . And as great an evill 't is to the Kingdome for Members of the House of Commons to take upon them to bee fingerers and Treasurers of the publick money of the Kingdome , because they are thereby in a condition to fill their owne coffers , and do what wrong they please , or else how comes it to passe that so many of their children are so richly married of late that were but meane before ? ( and no man knowes how to call them to account , unlesse they deale with them as the Romans sometimes dealt with their Senators , or , as the Switzers dealt with their Tyrants ) for the money is the Kingdomes , and not the Members of the House of Commons ; and the Kingdome ought in justice , reason , and right , to have a publick , punctuall , and particular account of it ; and therefore it ought not to be in the hands or fingers of those that are able to make so great a faction , as are able to protect them from justice , and an exact account . O that that gallant man Lieut. Generall Cromwell ( to whom the Kingdome for their preservation under God oweth so much ) would a little more deny himselfe , and cease to be a stalking horse , and a dangerous president of most dangerous consequence to these wicked mercinary Pluralists , Non , residentary great place men , for whom an Hospitall of any great consequence cannot fall but they must be Governors of it ; nor a petty place in the petty bag office , but they must get into it : which men , if the Kingdome would rightly consider it , have just cause to disclaime as none of their Patrons , but proclaime as their enemies and destroyers , being pecuniary self-seekers . For so long as Parliament men can get into their hands the riches and treasures of the Kingdome , and live like Kings and Emperors , and like lawlesse men , none such being of Gods creation , there will never be an end of this Parliament , which by its everlasting continuance , by the abuses of lawlesse and rotten-hearted men , will become the most absolute burthen and greatest oppression that ever was upon the people ; when as in times by past , it used to be their only remedy from their oppression and oppressors . In a Pamphlet entituled , Yet another word to the wise , there 's a Letter directed To Master John Musgrave , chosen to present the Countries greivances to the House of Commons , which Letter speaks thus . But the House of Commons instead of hearing and redressing your greivances , have added new greivances unto those which formerly you have suffered in their owne quarrell against the common enemy , they have unjustly imprisoned you these last twelve moneths , protected Traytors among themselves from the Law , &c. Yet we shall rather with tears seek their repentance then their persisting in such courses , seeing they are placed in lawfull authority , and have a good Cause , though they seeke too much their owne , &c. And as for their lamentable submission to the Bishops servants the Presbyterian Synodians in establishing that wil-worship and Popish maintenance , which now themselves doe well know to be jure diabolico , through these blind guides their Diviners and Southsayers inability to answer their Queres whereby to prove themselves jure divino , surely if they will notwithstanding obstinatly persist in such wilfull , dangerous , and unwarrantable courses , they will doubtlesse show themselves to be fighters against God , his truth and people to their owne destruction without speedy conversion . In a Pamphlet entituled Liberty against Slavery , there 's a Letter written by a Sectary call'd An e●cellent Letter , written by a prisoner to a worthy Member of the House of Commons , where are these passages : O , where is justice ? may not these royall plunderers as well justifie all their Robberies and Depraedations , as either our House of Commons or the House of Peeres these kinds of imprisonments and commitments ? Nay , is it not the greatest injustice when done under the colour of justice . Sir , I assure you , it were lesse greivous unto us to die at once then to be thus inslaved and fami●hed in your cruell prison houses , where we are exposed to all misery , contempt , obloquie and scorne of the worst men , and thereby the hearts of our wives and aged Parents broken with greif . Sir , be pleased to consider how by these and the like doings the affections of many thousands of people is estranged from you , who have formerly adventured all to uphold you in your authorities ; and if this course be continued , we shall not , we cannot thinke and say lesse then that the Parliament ( and not the Prerogative ) makes us a bondage and miserable people . And some already do not spare to say that the Parliament is now become the burthen of the Kingdome . You were intrusted by the people for their good , and not for the continuation of their thraldome ; let us then have justice , which without showing your selves to be most unjust men , you cannot any longer deny us . The Pamphlet entituled Englands Birth-right , page 33. speaking of the Commons in Parliament , saith , By which manifest abusing , negligent , and not true using the Lawes , oppressions , mischeifes , greivances , are no lesse ( if not far more ) increased then they were before the Parliament began ; and many times by the powerfull interest of a faction in the Parliament to save some one , two or three of their Members undeserving credits , they so violate the knowne , unrepealed and declared Law of the Land , yea and their owne Votes , Ordinances , Declarations and Protestations , as if they had never made them : I say , all these things considered , ought not the free men of England , who have laboured in these destroying times both to preserve the Parliament and their owne native freedomes and birth-rights , not only to chuse new Members where they are wanting once every yeer , but also to renew and inquire once a yeere after the behaviour and carriage of those they have chosen . Lilburne in that Pamphlet of his call'd Innocency and Truth justified , page 75. speak● thus of the House of Commons ▪ But it may be you will say the House of Commons is not at leasure by reason of publick ; I answer , lesse then an hours time will serve my turne in this particular , and t is very strange in 5. yeers space so much time cannot be found from the publick to transmit my busines ; sure I am they can find time enough to settle great & rich plac● upon some of themselves , and to enjoy them for al their owne Ordinances to the contrary ; yea , and I know some of them hath plurality of places , and I say the thing I desire of them is more justly my due then any of their great places are theirs , and therefore I hope they have no true cause to be angry with me for craving justice at their hands ; And page 37. I am absolutely of this mind , that neither a Committee of the House of Commons , nor the whole House of Commons together can justly imprison me , or any other contrary to a Law which at present there is not some Ordinance made both by them and the Peers publick at present to overthrow it . But I have severall times been imprisoned by the Committees , and by Vote of the House of Commons it selfe contrary to a knowne Law made this present Parliament by themselves , against which there is at present no Ordinance published and declared by them and the Peeres for the Cognizance of : Ergo , I say they are tied in justice according to tenor of this Law , to give me reparations against those persons that were cheife instruments either in Committees , or in the House of Commons it selfe , to Vote and take away my Liberty from me , contrary to this Law , and for my part I doe accordingly expect my reparations for my late causelesse molestations and imprisonments . A pamphlet entituled A Remonstance to their owne House of Commons , page 11. speakes thus to the Honorable Commons . For we must deale plainly with you , ye have long time acted more like the House of Peers then the House of Commons : we can scarcely approach your doore with a request or motion , though by way of Petition , but ye hold long debates , whether we break not your Priviledges : The King or the Lords pretended Prerogatives never made a greater noise , nor was made more dreadfull then the name of Priviledge of the House of Commons . Your Members in all Impositions must not be taxed in the places where they live like other men : Your servants have their priviledges too : To accuse or prosecute any of you is become dangerous to the prosecutors . ●e have imprisonments as frequently , for either witnesses or prosecutors , as ever the Star-chamber had ; and ye are furnished with new devised arguments to prove , that ye only may justly doe those grosse injustices which the Star chamber , High Commission , and Councel board might not doe , Yee now frequently commit mens persons to prison without showing cause : Ye examine men upon interrogatories and questions against themselves , and imprison them for refusing to answer : Yee have entertained to be your Committees servants , those very prowling Va●le●s that were employed by those un just Courts , who took pleasure to torment honest conscionable people , yea , vexe and molest honest men for matters of Religion and differences with you and your Synod in judgement , and take upon you to determine of Doctrine and Discipline , approving this , and rep 〈…〉 thing that , just like unto former ignorant politick and superstitious Parliaments and 〈…〉 cations . So page 17. Truly t is a sad thing , but too true , a plaine quiet minded man in any place in England is just like a harmlesse sheep in a thicke● , can hardly move or sti● but he shall be stretched and lose his wooll : such Committees have ye made in all Cities and Countries , and none are so ill used as honest godly men . Ye● have now ●are full 5. yeers , which is 4. yeers longer then we intended , for we could chuse you but for ( at most ) one yeer ; and now we wish ye would publish to all the world the good that you have done for us , the liberty you have brought us unto , &c. And if y● beleeve there is a God , ye must beleeve it , and if ye do beleeve it , consider the way 〈…〉 ye have 〈…〉 d , and truly repent , show it by w 〈…〉 ing contrary to what ye have done , or purposed to do , and let us quickly and speedily 〈◊〉 thereof ; for God is a God that taketh v●nge 〈…〉 , and will not suffer you to go on to your rui 〈…〉 . And 〈◊〉 in these and 〈◊〉 other printed passages , the Sectories 〈◊〉 their in sol 〈…〉 against the House of Commons , so they declare their insol 〈…〉 in severall other particulars , as First , in going with a high hand against Votes passed in that House ; for instance , when a passage in a Letter sent 〈◊〉 the House of Commons after Naz●by fight about liberty of conscience , was upon debate Voted and Ordered by the House to be left out , and was not in the Copies printed by co 〈…〉 d of the House ; the Sectaries presently printed that passage , and besides bare printing it , did it with a blaming of them who lest it out in the Letters printed , and being printed it was set up upon Church doores to make it more publick , viz. the Churches of greatest resort of people , as at Stepny at the time of Master Burroughs preaching , and printed in a sheet with some motives to the Presbyterians for liberty of conscience at the end of it , as a passage in such a Letter written by such a man ( whose name I forbeare printing , ) Secondly , in scoffing at and writing against the priviledges of Members of the House of Commons , and declaring themselves against those provisoes of exemptions made of Members in the House of Commons upon any Ordinances , as that of Accounts , &c. declaring , they are as free as any Members of that House , and that they ought not to be in bondage to any Law o● Ordinance that they will not stand to , declaring against theirs and their servants freedome from arests , suits , &c. divers scoffing passages to which purpose the Reader may ●inde in Lilbur●s innocency and truth justified , and other Pamphlets above named . Thirdly in taking notice of publickly , and publishing in pri●t matters in the House under debate and deliberation there , before agreed on and resolved , yea and speaking their pleasure of such things , and branding the Members who have brought in , or spoken to such things , of which there are many instances , as in the Ordinance for the preventing of the growing and spreading of Heresies , Blasphemies , brought into the House of Commons , they printed it , they made Observations ▪ Animadversions , Queres , Invectives against it , spoke against those worthy Members by name who presented it , and all when it was but newly under debate ; for proofe of all which particulars let the Reader look upon these , following Pamphlets : S 〈…〉 e mo●●s● and ●umble Queres concerning a printed paper entituled An Ordinance presented to the Honorable House of Commons , for the preventing of the growing of Heresies : A D 〈…〉 to the Bill for preventing the growth and spreading of Heresies . Some breif Observations upon the foregoing Ordinance . Master Burtons Conformities Deformity , Pag. 17. Overtons . Arrow against all Tyrants , pag. 12. 13 , 14. of which Ordinance yet but under debate in that House this Overton writes , That by the powerfull agitation of Master Taet and Master Bacon , two Members of the House , a most Romish Inquisition Ordinance had obtained admission into the House , there to be twice read , and to be referr'd to a Committee , which is of such a nature , if it should be but confirmed , enacted and established , as would draw all the innocent bloud of the Saints , from righteous Abel unto this present upon this Nation , and fill the Land with more Martyrdoms , Tyrannies , Cruelties and Oppressio 〈…〉 , then ever was in the bloudy dayes of Queen Mary , yea or ever before or since : For I may boldly say , that the people of this Nation never heard of such a diabolicall , murthering , devouring Ordinance , Order , Edict o● Law in their Land , as is that . So when the Assemblies last Petition about Church-Government was in the House under debate , Master Salt 〈…〉 arish takes notice of it , prints is , writes against it . Fourthly , In a contemptuous carriage to the commands of the House of Commons , in refusing to answer any questions propounded , and instead of answering , charging the House of Commons with injustice , &c. as is to be seen in a Letter of Lilburnes to his friend ( and divers other Pamphlets . Yea Lilburne in a Book lately printed , even since his Appeale from the Lords House was accepted by the Commons ( as himselfe saith ) and he so favourably and patiently heard by the Committee of the House of Commons to consider of the priviledges of the Commoners of England , as appeares by a wicked Pamphlet intituled An Anatomy of the Lord● Tyran●y and unjustice exercis●d upon Lieutenans Colonel Lilburne ) brands the House of Commons with injustice , ingratitude , saying page 20. of Londons liberty in chains discovered , that he could never in his life enjoy justice from the House of Commons , although ( saith he ) I have wa●ted upon them therefore this sixe yeers , and followed them as close as any man ( I think ) in England : and I have beene as serviceable to the Common-wealth of England in my place and condition , as any one man whatsoever that site in that House ; though I have beene ungratefully dealt with by them as ever man in England was . Fifthly , In opposing the power of the House of Commons in medling with matters of Religion , making any Lawes , Ordinances or Orders in reference to matters of Church-Government . Master John Goodwin first preached against their power in this kind , because they were chosen by the common people of the Land , worldlings , prophane persons , ignorant , &c. who having no knowledge in Religion , and so likely to chuse such as themselves , were unfit for such a work : and afterwards in print being charged with it by Master Prynne , as proved against him before the Committee of plundered Ministers , he justifies his Preaching ; of which the Reader may see more in those Answers and Replyes that passed betwixt Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Pryn , and particularly in Mr. Pryns Truth triumphing over falshood , Epist . Dedicat. and in the Book pag ▪ 106 , 107 , 108. The Author of the last warning to all the inhabitants of London , pag. 5. saith , That the betrusted Commons have not permitted this liberty in policie of every one worshipping God as they will , but in Justice and upon mature knowledge , that they neither are , nor can be betrusted to make Lawes to rule men in the practice of Religion . The Sectaries Remonstrance to their own House of Commons ( as they call the Honorable House ) pag. 12 , 13. speaking of matters that concern the worship of God , denys the Commons any power at a● to conclude the people in such things , It is not for you to assume a power to controule and force Religion , or to force a way of Church-Government upon the people , because former Parliaments have so done ; and affirms the Commons could not have such a power justly entrusted upon them by the people that trusted them . And what need any further witnesse ? The House of Commons to their faces in the last 〈…〉 a st Sermon before them , heard enough by Master Dell a famous Sectary , and the Generalls Chaplaine , against their power and authority to meddle in things of this kind . Fifthly , the Sectaries have written publikely and spoken openly against many particular Members of both Houses by name , yea against the Honourable Speakers of both Houses by name , and divers other prime eminent Members , of note as well for their estates and ranks out of the Houses , as power in the Houses , calling by name some of them Traitors , Achan● , accusing them of treason and wilfull betraying of their Countries and Trusts , as the Religious Earl of Manchester , Sir Henry Vane Senior , Master Barwis ; charging others by their severall names with other crimes , as injustice , oppression , protecting of Delinquents , sending many thousand pounds to the King at Oxford , procuring by their publike places in the House , contrary to the Self-denying Ordinances , private and profitable places to themselves , pride and loftinesse of carriage , breach of promises , giving out of the Scots that they have a wicked design , tending to the prejudice of the State. It would fill up many pages to relate all the passages in Lilburns , Overtons , Master Musgra●es Books , Englands Birth-right , and such like Pamphlets of Sectaries against some of the Peers by name , as th●● thrice Noble and Worthy Earl of Essex●●tely ●●tely deceased , the Earl of Stamford , Lord H●●sden , and divers of the Commons , as Sir Arthur Hazelrig , Master Lilsle , Master Glyn , Master Blackstone , Master Gorbet , Master Whitaker , Master Allen , Master T●et , Master B●●on , yea they fall foule upon Sir Henry Van● the younger , Master Sollicitor , Liev●enant Generall Cromwell , Sir Henry Mildmay , Master Holland , &c. and would have them turned out of their places , as being Nonrefidentiaries , Pluralists , strengthening others in those wayes by their examples , telling them these other places distinct from their Memberships of Parliament prejudices greatly the Common-wealth , sowes up their lips , makes them they dare neither speak nor doe what they should , and without which 't is hoped they would ; but I must not enlarge more on this head , and therefore referre the Reader to the Books themselves to peruse the particulars at large . Sixthly , The Sectaries have spoken , written publikely against contested with the Committees of Parliament , the Committees of each House , both of the House of Commons and Lords : How Lilburne carried himself to the Committee of Examinations his pamphlet entituled The copy of a Letter from Li●●t . Col. Lilburne 〈◊〉 a Friend shewes at large ; what Master Musgraves carriage was to a Committee of the House of Commons ( of which Master Li●ts was the Chair-man ) himselfe relates in his pamphlet entituled Another word to the wi●e ; and in that Book he speaks against the proceedings of that Committee , and in that of all the Committees of the House of Commons , shewing his reasons why he declined that Committee , and the answering of their Interrogatories : Now his words are as followes , I am blamed because I decline the Committee , how should I expect any good from them , when they dare not , or will not suffer our cause to be publikely heard and debated , but doe shut their doores against both our friends , and also against strangers , contrary to Law , yet suffer they our adversaries whom we accuse to sit with their hats on , as Judges in the cause , both permitting them , and they taking upon them to examine us . And how can I assent unto the Committes demands to bring witnesses to be examined before such a Committee as cannot , or is not authorised to administer an oath , and so consequently cannot determine or give any judgement for or against the party accused , for that all matters of fact and causes criminall are to be tried and determined by the verdict of twelue men upon solemne oaths and deposition of witnesses ▪ And how can I without incurring the hainous sinne of perjury , submit unto the Arbitrary proceedings and determinations of any Committee , being bound by solemne oath and protestation to maintaine the Lawes and just liberties of the people ; and that the Proceeding , Orders and Results of the Committees be Arbitrary , and not regulated by the Law , I need no further proofe then that exorbitant and unlimi●ted power they take upon them , and daily exercise in seazing on free mens goods , and imprisoning their bodies contrary to Law ; for which , if they should , as they ought , pay 500. li. a peice , and trebble dommages to every party greived ; according to the Statute of 17. Carol. made for the abolishing of the Star-chamber , I beleeve they would not adventure so boldly to transgresse . Overton in his Pamphlet call'd A De●●ance against all Arbitrary usurpations either of the House of Lords or any other , p 14. 13. declares his contempt●os insolent carriag towards a Committee of the Lords House , how when he was asked by the Earle of Essex two severall times whether he were a printer or no ? he answered that he would not answer any questions or Interrogatories whatsoever , but would stand to the rights and properties of the people of this Nation , as also that he asked the Committee some questions , talked sawcily to them , as to know where or before whom he was , What is a Committee of Lords the most supreme Court of Judicature in the Land ? Gentlemen , if you be a Committee of Lords , then I appeale ▪ from you . Seventhly , the Sectaries have carried themselves in word and deed insolently against the Parliament of England , not only ( as I have fully proved ) abusing apart , the House of Lords , the House of the Commons , Commit . of each House , and divers particular Members of both Houses by name , but as conjunct in their Authority Power , and that in both the senses in which the Parliament is taken , whether as we meane the three Estates in Parliament in their Legislative power , the King , the Lords , the Commons , or whether the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament making the highest Court to punish other Courts and offendors according to Lawes already made , and having a power to make Ordinances and to set out rules and directions in emergent occasions of the Kingdome till a Law can be made . Now in the first acception of Parliament the Sectaries have by word , writing , and all their proceedings ( especially of late , ) overthrowne Parliaments , and the fundamentall constitution of the three estates , King , Lords and Commons , and that in denying all Legislative power to the King and Lords , and of three Estates , leaving and making but one , cutting off both King and Lords from their unquestionable legall power according to the Lawes and fundamentall constitution of the Government of this Kingdome ; yea indeed destroying all the three estates , taking away all the power and authority from the King , Lords , and Commons , and placing it in the universall people , giving them power to doe what they will , and as often as they will , as being the Creator of all , and making the King , Lords , and Commons their meere creatures , to be disposed of as they please ; and as the Sectaries are against the power of the three Estates in Parlia . to make new Lawes , giving this Legislative power only to the Commons , and that to at the discretion of the people , so are they against the Lawes and Acts already made by King , Lords , and Commons assembled in Parliament , having inveighed against all Lawes from first to last both Common and Statute , yea against Magna Charta it selfe , calling it a poore and beggarly thing , below a Freeman , &c. of the proofes of which particulars , though the Sectaries Books are full , I shall only name one place in the Remonstrance of the Sectaries to their owne House of Commons , page 15. where they speak thus to the Commons : Yee know the Lawes of this Nation are unworthy of a free people , and deserve from first to last to be considered , and seriously debated and reduced to an agreement with common equity and right reason , Magna Charta it selfe is but a beggarly thing , containing many marks of intolerable bondage , and the Lawes that have beene made since by Parliaments have in very many particulars made our Government much more oppressive and intolerable ; and in all their Books they speak against the knowne positive Lawes of the Land , and cry out for Lawes according to right reason , and for naturall primitive rights , the just rights and prerogative of mankind , which as they are the sonnes of Adam , from him they have legitimatly derived ; of which they make themselves the sole Judges , for otherwise our Ancestors who first founded this government and Lawes , and the Parliaments ever since in all ages being rationall men , have judged the present forme of Government and the Lawes to be most agreeable to Right Reason and Equity for this Nation , and accordingly have confirmed and rati●ied them so many times . Now if this insolent outragious carriage of many Sectaries be well considered , it will be found Treason in the highest forme , not only against the King but the Kingdome too , as my Lord Cook spake in the case of the Gunpouder Traytors , they having plotted , endeavoured , written many Books , done many actions to overthrow the fundamentall constitution and lawes of this Kingdome , and that not by blowing up one Parliament , but by their gun-powder spirits labouring to destroy all Parliaments in their constitution of three Estates for ever ; and if Strafford and Canterbury for endeavouring to subvert the ▪ fundamentall lawes of this Kingdome ( though they professed ignorance in many things , and for what they did pleaded the command of the King , and carried themselves with all du●ifull submission to the Parliament , not to their faces , and in the time of a Parliament endeavouring to overthrow Parliaments and Lawes , and confronting them ) were yet charged and suffered death ; how many deaths hath Lilburne , Overton , and the rest of their fellowes deserved , who have with so much violence sought the overthrow of the three Estates and the Lawes of the Kingdome , and in the stead of the Fundamentall Government Lawes and Constitution of this Kingdome to set up an Utopian Anarchie of the promiscuous multitude , and the ●usts and uncertaine fancies of weake people for Lawes and Rules ; and if these audacious men and their daring books shall escape without exemplary punishment ; and instead thereof , be countenanced and set free , I do as a Minister pronounce that the plague of God will fall upon the heads of those who are the cause of it . A●d in the second acception of the Parlia . for what hath been done by the joynt power of both Houses in their Ordinances and commands , yea the power which they claime , and is expressed in the Writs by which they make such Ordinances and command obedience to them , both the Authority and the Ordinances following from that Authority are denied and reproached all kind of wayes by the Sectaries ; and here I have so large a feild to walke in that I might make a fourth part of Gangraena in laying open the particulars of this kind , but I will only speak a few things : In the generall , the Authority of both Houses of Parliament in matters of Religion and all Ordinances whatsoever tending that way , have beene all viol●●ed with a high hand and trampled unde● foot with scorne and detestation openly declared against in the strangest manner that ever was in any age . Now for the Sectaries opposing the Parliaments Authority to establish Church-government , and to set up the true Religion , I will among many quote only three : First , Collyer a Master Sectary , in his Queres p. 24. answering that question , what power , &c. saith , they have none at all ; and that t is one of the first and greatest degrees of Antichristian tyranny , for man to assume to himself power in spirituall things , vide p. 24 , 25 , 26 , 27 , 28 , 29. Secondly , Mr. Burton in his Pamphlet entituled Conformities Deformity ( it being the maine scope of his Book ) speaks against the power and practise of this State and present Parliament to enact a Law to binde all to conformity in Religion , and makes it to be the feare of God raught by the precept of men , to be hypocrisie , idolatry , to be that which turnes men away from the truth , and so from Christ , page 7. 15. and in page 12 , 1● . he writes thus . A●d therefore in this time of pretended Reformation ( belike the Parliament doth but pretend Reformation , because it sets not up by a Law Independencie and Sectarisme , Presbyteriall Government , the Di●●ctory , Confession of Faith , Catechisme , being all but pretended Reformation with Master Burton ) to erect this great Idoll , to wi● , a power in man to prescribe Lawes , and to l●gi 〈…〉 commandements for worship and Church government , and to presse them upon every mans conscience : w 〈…〉 is it but with Nebuchadnezzar to erect this golden Image , and with an immortall Law of the Medes and Persians to bind all men to fall downe and worship it ? Or what is it , but with Jeroboam and his Councell to set up the golden Calves with a strict comandement of universa●l conformity ? none daring among all those ten Tribes openly to pro●esse the pure worship of God , saving the Prophet Elijah , to whom these seven thousand were not knowne : The Parliament may do well to take notice that he resembles their settling Church-government and Religion among us to Nebuchadnezzars erecting his golden Image , and Jeroboams setting up the golden Calves . Thirdly , the Pamphlet entituled The tender Conscience religiously affected descanting upon a part of the Preamble of an Ordinance made by the Lords and Commons concerning suspension of ignorant and scand alous persons from the Lords Supper , where the Parliament saith never any of Gods servants since the● foundation of the world had 〈◊〉 high and strong engagements beartily and sincerely to endeavour the compleat establishment of purity and unity in the Church of God then we have , charges the Parliament with speaking of blasphemy , and aske where had the Lords and Commons this large Commission to middle ▪ in the affairs of King Jesus so farre , &c. 2. For the Sectaries opposing all the Ordinances of Parliament in matters of Religion and tending to Religion ( to say nothing now of Ordinances in civill m●tters , as the additionall Ordinance of Accounts , Lillurnes Innocency , and Truth justified , page 69. the Ordinance of Excise , the Ordinances for Takes spoken against in Englands birth-right , page 44 , 4● . ) t is so apparent that I can give not only passages out of Books written against all the Ordinances in that kind , but relate insolent tumultuous practises contrary unto , and in scorne and contempt of the Ordinances of Parliament . There are many books and passages in books written against the Ordinance of Tyths , as that Pamphlet call'd Ordinance for Tyths Dis 〈…〉 ted , Englands Birthright , A Copie of a Letter written to Master William Pr 〈…〉 , with divers others , wherein they speak both against the thing and the Parliament , calling Tyths Antichristian , Jewish , Diaboli 〈…〉 , the root and support of Popery , &c. charging the Parliament with breach of ●ovenant for making that Ordinance . There are Sermons preached all the Kingdome over against this Ordinance of Tyths , that being one of their subjects commonly in all their preachings , and the Sectaries in places have abused and beaten those who have beene gathering of Tyths , and themselves deny payment , and provoke others not to pay by all the meanes they can . A great Sectary in Bermonsey parish being call'd in question for non-payment of his Tyths , by vertue of the Ordinance of Parliament , said of that Ordinance , the Parliament had made an Ordinance to rob men , and they who executed it were theeves and robbers . The Ordinance against mens preaching not being Ordained , how hath it beene scoffed at in severall Pamphlets of the Sectaries , and how doe souldlers and every mechanick , not only disobey it , but put by many godly Ministers from their Pulpits preaching whether they will or no , causing many tumults and riots in Churches , yea threatning and laying Ministers by the heeles for publishing it . The Ordinance for the better observation of the monthly Fast , how hath it beene and is slighted by the Sectaries , spoken against as legall , popish , not observed , but things done in contempt of the Fast ? and when civill Officers have questioned people for travelling , and worldly works on those dayes , some Sectaries have opposed them in the execution of their offices , the proofe of which particular , and that of committing a Minister to prison for reading the Ordinance against Lay mens preaching , the Reader may finde it in the Letters sent from the Committee of Exeter to some in London . The Nationall Covenant taken by both Houses , and appointed by Ordinance with solemne instructions for all to take it , how fearfully is it scoffed at and jeared in many Books of the Sectaries , Arraignment of Persecution , &c. and forced Jesuiticall equivocations and interpretations put upon it by many , as by Walwyn in A word more to Master Edwards , as by Cretensis in his large Preface to the Reader before his Anapologesiates Antapologias ? The Nationall Covenant is called a double faced Covenant , the greatest make-bate and snare that ever the Devill , and the Clergy his Agents cast in among honest men in England in our age : which I dare pawne my head and life so to prove it to be in a fair and publick discourse against the greatest maintainer thereof in England , Lilburns Londons liberty in chains discovered , page 42. The Directory established by Ordinance , is in severall Books of the Sectaries spoken much against , resembled to Jeroboams calves , said to have contradictions to the Canonicall Scriptures : Turners Heavenly confidence for Syons Saints , page 64 , 65. scoffed at in a Ballad , call'd A Prophecie of the Swin●herds destruction . The Ordinances for the Presbyteriall Government , and the Government it selfe in the going to set it up have beene preached , written against , and all manner of wayes opposed by the Sectaries . What hath beene more familiar and common with the Sectaries in their Pulpits and Books , then to call the Presbyterian Government Antichristian , a ●lim of Anti-christ , Tyrannicall , Lordly , cruell , a worse bondage then under the Prelates , a bondage under Taskmasters as the Israelites in Egypt , besides many bitter jeares and scoffs have beene made both of the Government and Ordinances , as 〈◊〉 The Arraignment of Persecution , Martins Eccho , Ordinance for ●y●●s dismounted , The last warning to all the Inhabitants of London ; as also they have made disgracefull pictures of the Presbytery , one printed and joyned to a paper call'd Severall Votes of tender consciences , another to a Pamphlet call'd The tender Conscience religiously affected . But among all the Sectaries Books abusing the Parliaments Ordinances about Presbyteriall Government , let the Reader take notice of the Pamphlet call'd Tender conscience religiously affected , propounding questions of weighty consequence , in which the Author descants upon the Ordinances of Parliament , and charges them with speaking blasphemy , and many other crimes , and the Ordinance for Tyths dismounted , where that Sectary speaking occasionally of the Ordinance of Parliament for the Lords Supper , saith , For indeed at the first onset it was not policie to rush such a diabolicall and vill●nous invention point blanck upon us , with an It is decreed and ordained by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament : But after a more mysterious manner of Ordination , slily intrude it upon us unawares in the godly and specious vizor of Rules and Directions , as if our Parliament men ●ad such a spirituall and holy care ●ver ●s , to give us such wholsome and 〈…〉 directions , 〈…〉 indeed under this innocent apparition in the shape of Lam 〈…〉 , they are no other then ravening Woolves rending and tearing us in p 〈…〉 ces ; againe , this Sectary speaking of Parliament men about their Ordinance , saith , But what they are let all the people judge , let them consider whether there can be the least dram of honesty or Religion in them , or respect to the liberty of this freeborne Nation therein , seeing they lay upon us a heavier ●eake then ever was laid upon us in the dayes of the Bishops ? It will be the greatest thraldom and bondage that ●ver the Kingdome was involved into , and by this Ordinance of the Supper , I am afraid we shall all go supperlesse to bed , and speaking of the Classes , Synods , he addes , if we can finde no Justice there we may appeale ( for sooth ) to our Gods themselves , the Parliament ( life everlasting world without end ) of who 〈…〉 , how may we expect 〈…〉 or justice th 〈…〉 that thus before hand w 〈…〉 with the stings of Scorpions , and gri●d us betweene the devouring jawes of such divilish tyr 〈…〉 icall Courts which will even crush our 〈…〉 s in peices , and squeese out our very marrow and juyce , and 〈…〉 ck out our very hearts bloud like so many greedy 〈◊〉 ? And as I have shown how the Presbyteriall Government and Ordinances for it , have beene by word and writing opposed , so I shall give some instances of the Sectaries insolent actings and workings against it . In London when according to command of Authority , the Ministers and people met to set up the Government , to chuse Elders in Congregations , some Sectaries came into Churches when they were ●●using , and made a disturbance by objecting openly against the office , a● at A●dersga●● , and some other Churches ; other Sectaries joyned together , hindered the election , objecting they would not chuse Elders till they had chosen Ministers first , because their Ministers were put in by the Bishops in former times , or by the Parliament of late without their formall choyce ; an instance of the first was at Michael crooked ●ane , where by the meanes of some Sectaries the Election was hindered , and is to this day , and things were carried with a great deale of confusion and tumult ; an instance of the second was at Th 〈…〉 Apostles : As some other Churches , of London , where upon the Church doores a paper was set up to give notice of Elders chosen in such places , and that they were to be tried at such a time in such a Church and that if any had any thing to except against them they should bring in their exceptions , these papers were pu 〈…〉 downe , and in their place a scandalous paper call'd severall Vo 〈…〉 of 〈◊〉 consciences , having a disgracefull picture of a Presbyter , having Antichristian written by him , in the midst of the Pope and Prelate , was set up ; as for instance 27. of July last on the Church doore in Clements Eastcheap , the paper about Elders was taken downe , and this paper set up . At Dover in Kent , when one of the parishes was to chuse Elders , the Independents and Sectaries carriage was extreme insolent , as the Reader may observe by these following passages written to me in a Letter from a Reverend Minister of that Towne . Now for the day of Electing our Elders , if a State and the Truth were ever trodden downe at once by men , it was in the preparation for that day , and the practise of it : Before the day some of them went about to perswade the people to hold their liberties , and not to bring themselves in bondage . They chose our Elders for us , and perswaded people to accept of them , and being asked by some whether they thought them fit to be Elders in their Independent Church , they answered no , nor members neither ; they sp●ke evill of our best men , and accused them of wavering and malice , and when some told that if they should chuse such Elders as they named , people would not be joyned with them , they replied , no matter , they might then come to their Church ; and when the day was come and time to chuse our Elders , albeit their owne Pastor was preaching in the towne at the same instant , yet some of them came to our choyce , and there affirmed ( though not by an open ou●cry ) yet by private perswasions to some , that we were not building the walls of Babal , and went to divers persous and got them to forbeare giving their voices to Master P. telling them that they knew he would not take it , by which meanes we feare he will lose it ; to be brief , we know that they are opposite to order , and if there be not restraint will bring all to a lawlesse condition , so thinks June 29. 1646. Your loving freind and Brother Eighthly , ●he Independents and Sectaries have spoken , written , and carried themselves very unworthily towards our Brethren of Scotland ; the Sectaries in the Army ▪ City ; Country , and in all places of this Kingdome have at all tables , and in all Pamphlets and all kind of wayes abused and railed against the Scots , inventing many wicked lies , raising groundlesse jealousies and feares of them , and that of their Kingdome and State , their Army , their Commissioners resident here , their Generall Assembly , of particular worthy persons by name , and as they have done thus about this two last yeers with all industry and subtilty imploying Emissaries , so more especially since the Kings going to the Scottish Army they have bestirred themselves by their weekly Pamphleters , by many libellous Pamphlets written on purpose , by many strange and false reports raised on purpose to incense the Kingdom against them , and to make them odious ; I could fill a great book in setting downe all the hard speeches the ungodly Sectaries have spoken against them in Sermons and other discourses , in transcribing out of the Sectaries Books all the bitter , scoffing , lying , railing passages written against them , in relating all strange facts , and cruell unkind dealings of that party against them ; but they are so well knowne , and all wise men so well acquainted with them , that I need not much enlarge ; only for the sake of weake ones who live remote , I shall touch upon a few things , and truly t is the honour of our Brethren of Scotland that the Sectaries hate them so infinitely ; for would they have beene false or remisse in the Covenant , and to their principles , they should have beene the great favorites with them , and might have had what they would ; but because they were too honest , and not to be corrupted by any worldly thing , and they looking upon them as the great thing that letteth and will let , untill it be taken out of the way , therefore they have sought to blast them and destroy them all kind of wayes they could desire . They have therefore laboured to possesse the people by word and writing that the Scots are a false , dishonest , selfe-seeking People , all for their owne ends , and alwayes were , that they co●ply with the Kings designes , are firmly his as ever the Cavaliers were , that they will joyne with the King against the Parliament , a mercinary people that have got a world of money and sent it out of the Kingdome in whole barrels full , that have had more money , and now demand more hundred thousand pounds ●hen all Scotland is worth if it were to be sold , that they stood for the King to come to London , and to be disposed of by their advice for nothing else but to get great offices about him , and places at Court , that they seek nothing but to encroach upon the rights and liberties of this Nation in severall of their demands , and therefore what true English man can beare it ? They have given out of their Armies that they exercise strange cruelties , robberies , plunderings in the Countries notwithstanding all their great pay , and yet they have done nothing for it ; what have they done almost this two last yeeres , say the Sectaries ? nay some Sectaries have given out we owe them nothing , they have had more then their pay comes to . Presently after the newes came of the Kings going to the Scottish Army , there were many jealousies raised and reports given out by the Independent party , that all the forces of the Kings out of Newark were joyned to the Scots , and gone along with them ; that Letters were intercepted going from the King to Oxford , to wish them to holdout so many dayes and they should have releife , that two thousand Irish were come to joyne with the Scots for the King against the Parliament , that the Scots had broken the Covenant in detaining the King , and in not delivering up Ashburnham , with divers such fables , and since all along we have by that party some fine stories or other told of the Scots , as of so many thousands out of France to joyne with them , and so many thousand fresh men come out of Scotland into England , and Informations and Examinations printed of strange things the Scats will do , and the King hath spoken of since he went to them , reports of stories of Robin Hood and little John , of Cocks and Bulls , plots that would be discovered of the Scots , and some great Noble men . Now for proof of the Sectaries being guilty in these particulars , I referre the Reader to divers of the Sectaries libellous Pamphlets against the Scots , as Master Burtons Conformities Deformity : A black cloud in the North , a late Declaration by way of Letters , * &c. to divers of the Weekly newes Books of late , and particularly to the Imperfect Diurnall , Immoderate Intelligencer , Vnperfect Occurrences , three sworne servants of the Independents , and to his owne remembrance and observation of things . For conclusion of this , there are none so hated in this Kingdom by the Sectaries , as our Brethren of Scotland , not the Papists , not the Prelates , not the Malignants , they exceed the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury , Doctor Wren , &c. who never spake with that bitternesse against the Generall Assembly and Church-government , as some Sectaries have done ; for insta●ce , let Master Burtons Conformities Deformity be perused in what he writes against the Generall Assembly and Church-government of Scotland , and it would be thought rather to be Canterbury redivivus then Master Burton , for whom the Ministers of Scotland and other godly Christians there put up so many prayers ; but their hatred and malice against the Church and Kingdom of Scotland God will in due time remember and visit ; And their extreme malignity against our Brethren of Scotland appeares principally in four things . 1. Though some of that party have given great testimony to them of their faithfulnesse and worth , yet without any cause of theirs or change in them ( the Scots co●tinuing constant and firme to their first principles , and I challenge all the Sectaries to give but one instance to the contrary ) they have turned Jewes against them , and spoken evill of them all they could . 2. If any one Sectary take the Scots part as seeing their faithfulnesse to the publick , and so declare it , though yet at the same time be speaks against the Scots Church-government , Covenant , &c. and come to be in question and trouble upon some things ( though we see Sectaries strangely brought off of all troubles , notwithstanding all misdemeanors ) he is deserted by his party , may lie and perish in prison ; and the reason is given in * print to all the world , if we may beleeve it , for his complying with the Scots to drive on some wicked designe of theirs , and combining with them , whereas the same party declares in print the honesty and justice of the Scots for the redresse of the great greivances of his Countrey , and though strangers to him , yet upon the goodnesse of the Cause furthering it with all their power to bring it to the hearing of the House of Commons ; and he professes he neither knows nor can suppose the Scots to intend any other wicked desig● but the setling of the Presbyterian Government among us . 3. In the many bloudy speeches divers of the Sectarian party have spoken against the Scots , viz. that they would as willingly fight against the Scots , draw their swords against them as ever against 〈◊〉 Cavaliers , that if they had an Order from the Commons to go against the Scots , they would go as willingly as ever against the Cavaliers ; that it would never be well with us till we had beaten the Scots out of the Kingdom , that if they would not go out now we had conquered the Kings party , we would go lead them out , with divers such speeches . 4. In making it their great busines to corrupt and poyson mens minds with false notions and apprehensions about the Scots as if they were the most per●idious people that ever were , many stories in this kind might be told , but I will content my self with relating one , which is most certaine , as having it from the mouth of a godly minister upon whom the experiment was made . There was a great Gentleman of the Independent party , ( I will not say he was a Member of the House of Commons ) who laboured to possesse a godly Minister ( of some note in his Countrey ) against the Scots , and walked alone with him two houres to represent to him the state of things , o●●●ring him confidently , and that he should finde , that the King●ad ●ad poysoned the Scots , and made them all for him , he had corrupted the Army , the Scots Commissi 〈…〉 , the Convention of Estates , yea the generall Assembly it selfe , and they would be all 〈…〉 s much for him as ever the Cavaliers were , with severall other things he laboured to pos 〈…〉 e him with of the City of London , the Army . &c. but the best was , the Minister wanted faith to beleeve him and laughed secretly that this Gentleman should think to catch old birds with chaffe . Ni 〈…〉 ly , the Sectaries and Independents have spoken and carried themselves unworthily to the bleeding condition of the Kingdome of Ireland and the Protest●●ts there , some of them have justified the Irish Rebellion , that they did it for the liberty of their consciences , and for their Country , and what had the English to doe in their Kingdome , the Irish did no more then what we would have done ourselves if it had been 〈◊〉 case , and that they held it not lawfull to go fight against them ; others of the Sectaries have reasoned against sending releif thither , as saying , whom should we releive to ●e Protestants there were an unworthy people , that Kingdome had cos● us more to keep it then ever we go● by it , that it was 〈◊〉 to hazard that Army upon it which was so faithful , and 〈◊〉 for much for us , with other words to this purpose ; other Sectaries have laughed at the Presbyterians being so forward in preaching and praying for releif to be sent over in all hast into Ireland . A Gentleman in publick place told me not long since he had heard an Independent say upon discoursing of the hazard of the losse of Ireland , that it was not a three penny matter to England , if Ireland and Scotland both were lost , England had no need of them ; severall strange speeches have fallen from the Sectaries in reference to Ireland . Tenthly , the Independents and Sectaries have spoken , written , and dealt most unworthily with the City of London ; a whole book might be written of all the calumnies , reproaches , abuses that have beene offered the City of London within this last twelve months , especially about that late excellent Remonstrance ; how hath the late Lord Major , the whole Court of Common-councell and City Remonstrance been written , preached , spoken against by the Sectaries of the Army , City , and Country , giving reproachfull names , raising wicked lies upon them ; and for nothing but for petitioning the Parliament for setling the Government , and declaring themselves for the Covenant against Hereticks , Scismaticks , and Blasphemers ? Cretensis , that great Sectary , cals the late Lord Major of London and the Common-councell Brethren in iniquity with me ; the Author of the Pamphlet call'd the Lord Majors farewell from his Office of Majoralty , resembles the late Lord Major to wicked Ahaz , saying , the Saints will say of him in succeeding ages , this is that Lord Major of London Thomas Adams by name : Lilburne in his Pamphlet entituled Londons Liberty ▪ calls by way of scoffing the Prerogative Lord Major Adams ; A Sectary in the Army call'd him rascall . The Common-councell and Citizens have beene commonly call'd the Sect of the Adamites , and in print to in the Pamphlet The just mans justification , pag. 16. The Sectaries frequently cal the Citizens Preist-riden slaves . They have in Pulpits beene call'd the great mountaine that hinders the liberty of the people , refined Malignants , and that if ever this Kingdome was brought into slavery , the City would be the cause of it : some of the Sectaries have said that the King , the Scots , and the Common-councell did drive on one designe , it were too long to reckon up al the abuses offered the City of London and the Honorable Court of Common-councell by some of the weekly Pamphleters , as the Moderate Intelligencer , Perfect Occurrences , and by some Sectarian souldiers threatning that they would as willingly come against the City as ever against the Cavaliers . The City Remonstrance hath beene branded by them ; one Captaine in the Army said the Remonstrance was as devilish a thing as ever was penned by man. Lilburne in his Londons liberty in chains discovered , page 36. speaking of the City Remonstrance , calls it that most devilish , wicked , bloudy , unchristian , Papisticall Remonstrance of the Prerogative men of London , &c. Other Sectaries have call'd it that monster with many heads , the ●ifteene headed monster , a base railing Remonstrance ; M. Peters hath spoken his pleasure of it in the Pulpit , and the Moderate Reply to the City Remonst ▪ with the City Remonstrance remonstrated , have many naughty passages against the Common-councell and City Remonstrance , as that it was the disturber of the quiet and peace of the Church and State , &c. but I shall passe them by , and transcribe only one passage out of M. Burtons Conform . Deform . where in the Epist . Dedicatory to the present Lord Major , he writes thus , Give me leave tobeseech you , that you would improve the whole power of your office ( among other evils ) for the not only suppressing , but utter obliterating out of all Records of memory or mention , that late Remonstrance of London , which like the Trojan horse , is stuffed with such matter , as if the importunity of some might have had its desire , would unavoidably hale in ruine both to City and Country . Nor doth any thing more clearly demonstrate that spirituall judgement of blindnesse and hardnesse of heart to be upon all those who have their heads and hands in that Remonstrance , and wilfully persist in the prosecution of it now in cold bloud , then the unnaturall hating and hunting after the destruction of those very men as our mortall enemies , who have with the extrem hazard of their lives been honoured of God to be the preser●ers of them , our City and Country , &c. For the spirit of that ten-horned beast is now making warre with the Lamb , and this spirit warreth under new colours , not red , but white , whose word is Reformation , and this under afair colour of a Covenant by vertue wherof pretending a just title to the War , he hopes by the help of the Remonsstrance and the prime Authors thereof , and their adherents to erect a new bestiall Tyranny over soules , bodies and estates , under new names and notions . Elevently , the Sectaries have carried themselves towards the Assembly with the greatest scorne and reproach that ever any sort of men carried themselves towards such a company of Ministers learned and godly , and called by a Parliament to advise with in matters of Religion : O how many books have beene written against them within these two last yeers or thereabouts , as The Arraignment of Persecution , Martins Eccho , and their fellowes . O the railing , bitter , disgracefull passages , in Li 〈…〉 ns Letter to Mr. Pryn , Tender Conscience religiously affected , and divers other Pamphlets against the Assembly , calling them the black-coats in the Synod , D●ivines , good for nothing but to be burnt , having two hornes like a Lamb , but a mouth like a Dragon , teaching the Parliament to speak blasphemy against those Saints that dwell in heaven : O how commonly by word of mouth and in writing is the Assembly call'd Antichristian , Romish , bloudy , the plagues and pests of the Kingdome , Baals Preists , Diviners , Southsayer● , all manner of evill being spoken of them ? A Ballad hath beene made of them , having a first and second part , wherein they are scoffed with the title of Black-bird Divines ; the name of the Ballad is A Prophecy of the S●yn●eards Destruction , to the ●u●● of the merry Souldier , or the jov●●ll Ti●ker ; this Ballad calls the Assembly Swinheards , saith , these Swineheards are sitting to build old Babels Tower : The Assemby ●●th beene abused all kind of wayes , * threatned if they give advise to the Parliament against a Toleration of Independents , they shall be chastised as evill Councellors , disturbers of Church and State , no lesse then great Strafford or little Canterbury ; all kind of imputations charged on them , and they made by the Sectaries the cause and ground of all evil● that are upon the Kingdome . The l●st warning to the Inhabitants of London , page 7. saith , the Assembly are only to advise the House of Commons when they requi●r them , and have not dealt fairely to side with the Scots , or to sway with the City , or to 〈…〉 ge the Parliament in the least . Twelfthly , the Sectaries have carried themselves wickedly and insolently toward the whole Ministry in this Kingdome , and that both in City and Country , reproaching them and 〈◊〉 against them in Pulpits , Presses , and in all places , threatning them to send them packing to Rome , that they will leave never a Preist in England , distu●bing them in their owne Churches and Pulpits , in giving them the lie , calling them by disgracefull names , as foole , knave , false Prophet , Antichrist , Frog in the Revelation , pulling them out of the Pulpits , keeping them by force from preaching , invading their Pulpits against their wills , drawing swords against them , assaulting them in their houses with weapons of war , and driving them from their habitations , and laying their Churches wast . A large book would not containe all the stories of the Sectaries misusing the godly Ministers in this kind ; I have many instances with the proofes by me of the Sectaries insolent carriages in these kinds in Oxfordshire , Glostershire , Summersetshire , Wiltshire , Bedfordshire , Northamptonshire , Warwickeshire , Lestershire , Devonshire ; it would be too much to particularize all the wicked facts done in this kind by Col. Heuson , Major Axton , Leiut . Webb , Capt. Paul Hobson , and divers others , as also to repeat all the wicked reproachfull names given the godly Ministers of the Kingdom in the printed pamphlets of the Sectaries , as the Devils Agents , The professed ●nemies of Christ , The sworne enemies of Christ , Persecuting Presbyters , Croaking Fr●gs , and twenty such names , and worse . Thirteenthly , the Sectaries have spoken wickedly against all the Reformed Churches , scoffing at their Synods , Classes , Ordination , &c. Let their books be looked into , and they will be found to have written more scoffingly and reproachfully aganst those Churches then ever the Papists or Prelates did ; yea , they have blasphemed those Churches , the eminent servants of God among them , and the truth of Christ taught in them . What should I speak of the Arraignment of Persecution and his fellowes belching out blasphemies against the reformed Churches ? many other pamphlets besides that sort are extremely faulty , as The compassionate S 〈…〉 ri●●ne , Divine Light , &c. * . The Reformed Churches are ranged by some of the Sectaries with Papists and Turks , and Calvin that worthy Instrument of Reformation , and one of the Stars of the first magnitude , is evill spoken of and ●ancked with the Romanists . Fourteenthly , The Sectaries have inveighed against inferior Magistrates , & Courts , as Judges , Justices of peace , Majors of Cities , Committees , and all sorts of Officers of Justice , and have offered severall affronts unto these ; and t is no wonder that they who with so high a hand dare affront heaven and earth , God , his truth , Ministers and Ordinances , the higher powers , and the supremest Court of Judicature , as I have showed the Sectaries have done , should not be afraid of speaking against and carrying themselves uncivilly towards Magistrates in lower places . The Courts of Justice in Westminster Hall , and all their proceedings have been reviled by Lilburne and other Sectarian pamphlets . All the Lawyers have beene cryed downe , and reproached in Englands Birth-right , and other pamphlets , some of the Judges have beene affronted in their Circuits at the last Assizes by some Sectaries , as at Hartford and other places . Some Justices of Peace for executing Ordinances of Parliament upon Sectaries , as that of Tyths , and Committing upon blasphemies , have beene arrested and sued by Sectaries , as on Southwark ●ide , as also abused and reproached to their faces , and books written against them for discharge of their office , besides Constables and Officers who have distrained and served their Warrants , have beene molested and sued ; Majors of Cities , Sheriffs , Aldermen have beene branded for arbitrary , tyrannicall prerogative Aldermen , Sheriffs , and miscalled at pleasure , as in Lilburnes late pamphlets , The Lord Majors farewell to his Maioralty ; Committees in the Countries have beene affronted by Sectaries , putting on their hats when brought before them , as in Bedfordshire ; and in one word , all sorts of officers of Justice have one way or other , by word or deed , beene abused by Sectaries , either by disobeying the Warrants they have brought , or by miscalling them , or by branding them in print , as Lilburn hath done in severall pamphlets , severall officers , the Sergeant at Arms of the House of Commons , the Keepers of Newgate , he being more insolent and clomineering in prison over all kind of officers then his Keepers over him ; but above all , the Sectaries insolencies towards that faithfull Gentleman Colonel Francis West , and other officers under him , appears by * Lilburnes late libellous pamphlets , and by the threatning speeches of some Sectaries comming to see Lilburn in the Tower , who being by the Warders spoken unto to give their names , and where they dwelt , told them they should answer the prohibiting of them from going to Leiutenant Colonel Lilburne , and that the time was at hand , when they would come in whether the Leiutenant of the Tower would or no. And thus I have given a touch upon severall heads , of the Sectaries tumultuous insolent unsufferable carriages : but among all their wickednesses and abomiuable courses which may make them justly abhorred of all good men , and of these Kingdomes , the Reader may observe these following . 1. That they make it their work and businesse to corrupt , destroy , and overthrow all Religion and godlinesse , to lay all wast , and to set open a wide gate to all error and licentiousnesse of living , for the effecting of which they doe not only use all means and wayes for a Universall Toleration of all Heresies , Blasphemies , Atheisme , which may happen to arise ; that there being such , they may be tolerated , go unpunished ( which Toleration alone would cause growth of Heresies fast enough , and the ruine of Religion and godlinesse ) but they plot all wayes , and take all courses under heaven that all Heresies and Errors may grow and increase , that there may be both abundance of Errors and persons holding them ; and therefore they use all their power and interest to hinder all things which might prevent the growth of Heresies a●d Errors , as the settling of Church-government , and peace in Church and Common-wealth , as the bringing in of Orthodox godly zealous Ministers into places with the establishing of maintenance upon them , as the publishing of such Books as might keep men from Errors , having suppressed some Books so , which have come from New-England , as a Tractate against Toleration , &c. And on the contrary doe any thing , though never so unreasonable , though never so much against their owne principles , though never so wicked and abominable , so it will but advance Errors ; hence they suffer many Emissaries to go from Country to Country , from place to place to broach and vent among people all kinds of Errors , and that by force of Arms against the will of the Ministers and people , to invade Churches , Pulpits , to commit tumults , r●ots , break the Kings peace , affront Ministers , Magistrates in their places ; and if any of them be questioned , troubled , they bring them off by one means and trick or other : hence the more active any are in spreading Errors , the greater Preachers they prove , the greater Errors , and stranger Opinions they hold , the more they are countenanced , the sooner preferred to places of profit , trust , honor ; hence the Sectaries on all occasions , and in all places joyne and side with the arrantest Malignants , Papists , loosest and ungodliest men in a Country or Kingdome to further Errors , and to hinder any means which might probably suppresse them ; hence they will go against their own professed avowed principles and a rase their own foundations , be mainly instrumentall to bind heavy burdens upon others , which they account intolerable , wish , joy and be active in the b imposition of that upon their brethren , which themselves , who are for the imposition of it , yet count unlawfull to be submitted to , as in the point of Commissioners , the imperfect enumeration of scandalous sinnes , in the labouring to bring in scandalous and ignorant men to be Elders , and opposing able godly men in their choyce , on purpose to make the Presbyteriall Government odious , and that people might fall to them , of which I could tell large stories , as at Dover ; hence the Sectaries will raise and invent all kind of lies , go against all kind of j●stice and right , use all kind of dishonest wayes and meanes ( indeed nothing comes 〈…〉 isse ) to increase Errors and Heresies , and to stop all meanes against them , they will with A●●zi●h go and enquire of B●●lzeb●● the God of Ekron for help ; and lastly , hence our Sectaries doe not only plead for a Toleration , but plead for the things themselves , have found out many wayes to extenuate , lessen , justifie , yea to saint the grossest Errors , worst practises , and the vildest Hereticks : It would fill a great book to reckon up all the distinctions , excuses , pleas , pretences , arguments , evasions , apologies found ou● and made use of by the Sectaries within this two or three last yeers in defence of Heresies and Errors in generall , and of the greatest Errors in particular ; as denying the Trinity , the Scriptures , &c. And in defence of Hereticks as being Saints , holy men , men of tender consciences , harmelesse , peaceable quiet men : Whoever shall but read Cretensis Answer to my First Part of Gangraena , his 38. Queres upon the Ordinance for preventing the growth of Heresies , Walwy●● , Salt 〈…〉 arsh●● , Master Burtons , Master B●tchelers Comm●ndatory Imprimaturs , with divers other 〈…〉 te Pamphlets , must needs say Errors are small things ; and that many men go for Saints and Brethren among Independents , that there are many better in Hell then they , and we may as well call Dives Saint Dives , as such Sectaries Saints : All error now is christned and call'd Conscience , tender Conscience , Piety , the feare of God , as in these books Conformities Deformity , The Parable or Consultation about Master Edwards , Tender Conscience religiously affected the Reader may finde , and the vildest Hereticks , Schismaticks , Blasphemers , loose ungodly persons are cried up for Saints , the godly party , honest men ; and it is observable , that among all the Independents and Sectaries , who have written against my Books , as S●ltmarsh , Gretensis , Walwin , Mr. Burroughs , Mr. Burton , with many others , not one of them condemned any one Error , or man that I writ against , but justified all , crying out upon me with great bitternesse without any distinctions at all of opinions or persons , for speaking against the Saints , the Saints : Some say they know no Errors nor Sects at all , or if there be any , none so dangerous as the new sprung up Sect of Presbytery , and the opinion of compulsion in matters of Religion : Errors in matters of Faith , as in the Doctrine of the Trinity , the Divinity of Christ , &c. are pleaded for that they be Errors not against the light of nature , but against Revelation and Faith , and so more pardonable ; that among the Arrians there were many good men , and that when Errors are according to a mans conscience , and not against conscience , they are not so dangerous . Paul Best that ●earfull Blasphemer , and his damnable Heresie against the Trinity hath been in my hearing excused , extenuated , and publikely also thus pleaded for by many Sectaries , that he was not guilty of blasphemy ; that he denied only the tripersonality , not the Trinity , Athanasiu● Trinity , no● the Scripture Trinity , that he denies not the operation of the Persons , but only the name of the Persons , that he lent his writing about the Trinity to a freind in private , and he betrayed him , not that he had published his opinion . The questioning of the Doctrine of the thre Persons hath been excused , that the Persons were Schoole notions , the word Person was not to be found in Scripture , that it came not into the Church till some hundreds of yeers after Christ , that so long as men granted the thing , that there were three , though they held them operations , or vertues , it was not so materiall . And as Errors are thus pleaded for , excused by Sectaries , so all kind of sinnes and wicked practises are pleaded for to be no sinnes , or else made light account of , or the persons protected , and the offences smothered ; thus some Sectaries plead for Incest to be no sinne , the putting away and forsaking of husbands and wives to be lawfull , and a casting off Antichristian yokes , the making no conscience of the Christian Sabbath to be a part of Christian liberty , the casting away of prayer and holy duties to be a comming unto perfection , that nothing is sinne to the regenerate , that they cannot sinne ; that such persons committing vild ungodly practises must not be brought to punishment , nor prosecuted because they are the Saints , and Christ will not take it well to have his Saints molested ; t is most strange to speak of the fearfull bating with , hiding , concealing , justifying , excusing , the shuffling off uncleannesses , drunkennesses , and all kind of wickednesses among the Sectaries , as by Master Jesse and his company in the case of Mary Abraham , as by Lams Church in the case of one M. leaving and living from his wife , as in the case of some Sectaries that have been drunk in the Army , with many such , so that the Sectaries of our times are in a speciall manner guilty of the patronising , protecting , yea and taking pleasure in all kind of Errors and wickednesse , which is an aggravation of sinne , and a greater evill then the holding of such Errors , or committing such facts as is evident by these Scriptures , Rom. 1. 32. not only do the same , but have pleasure in them that doe them , Matthew ▪ 5. 19. Whosoever shall breake one of these least Commandements , and shall teach men so , he shall be called the least in the Kingdome of bea●en , and Prov. 28. 4. They that forsake the Law , praise the wicked , but such as keep the Law , contend with them , upon which text I wish the Reader to look Mr. Cartwright on the Proverbs . 2. That when the King freely cast himselfe into the Armes of our Brethren of Scotland in Covenant with us , and did nor go for Ireland , France , or into Scotland to Montrosse and the Rebels there , as he might have done ( which courses as they might have proved most sad and dangerous to himselfe and his posterity , so very pernicious to these Kingdomes in the continuance of a most destructive civill Warre , and sad effects thereof ) the Independents and Sectaries were so farre from blessing God for keeping the King from running those ways , and inclining his heart rather to go to our Brethren in Arms and Covenant with us , that they were much troubled at it , and some of them have expressed as much , wishing the King had gone rather to France or Ireland then to the Scots . An Independent speaking with a Presbyterian of the Kings going to the Scots , the Presbyterian answered him , what would you have had the King done ? Would you have had him gone to Ireland ? the Independent replied , it had been better for us if he had gone for Ireland then now , though may be not better for himselfe : And since the Kings being with the Scots the Sectaries have expressed themselves as being afraid of nothing more then the Kings yeelding to the Propositions , and a peace thereupon . A great Independent speaking of the Propositions , said , God forbid the King should signe them ; and some speaking of the Kings refusing the Covenant , an Independent said , Gods blessing of his heart for refusing of it : and I have been told from good hands , that so 〈…〉 e of the Independent party underhand make use of some instruments to keep the King off from taking the Covenant , and hint some encouragements to him if he refuse it , all which showes the abominable wickednesse of our Sectaries , that they would rather have had the King runne upon the destruction of himselfe and his Kingdomes , then their Independent opinions to be hazarded by the Kings agreeing with his Kingdomes , and settling of Church and State. 3. The transcendent wickednesse of the Sectaries and Independent party appears by their evill carriage towards our Brethren of Scotland , by whom as by a speciall meanes under God both the Kingdome and they came in a capacity to be freed from Tyranny and Popery ; and it hath been acknowledged since , this Parliament , even by some of themselves , that they were the first meanes and instruments of casting off oppressions and Popery ; and how usefull and instrumentall from first to last the Scots have beene to this Kingdome and Parliament , all the world cannot but know , who knowes any thing , and without whose helpe according to all humane reason and second causes the Sectaries ▪ had not been in a way of doing the Scots any wrong ; notwithstanding all which , such hath beene the horrid ingratitude of the Sectaries , that they have and doe hate them infinitely worse then the Papists and Malignants , have with all possible Art and industry reproached , vili●ied them by printing and reporting by word of mouth all kind of evill of them , studied to put upon them them all affronts and disgraces , sought all occasions to fall out with them , and to engage in warre against them , not caring to involve these Kingdomes in a most deadly and destructive warre , that they might be revenged on the Scots for the Covenant , and the Presbyteriall Government ; and the Sectaries have a long while made account of a warre with Scotland , and ordered many things in reference to that , that they might be ready for it : Many of the Sectaries made such reckoning of falling ou● with Scotland , that the last yeere some of them bought many score chaldron of New-castle coles , thinking thereby to get a great deale of mo●ey , and being disappointed have lost much by the bargaine ▪ othe●s of them perswaded their freinds to lay in good store of Coles for their provision the l●st winter , because of wars with Scotland ; and when Lilburne was in prison in Newgate upon Order of the House of Commons , one coming to visit him in prison , and giving him twenty shillings to releive him there , Lilburne told him for his love he would doe him this good turne , wish him to buy in his store of Coles , because of a breach that was likely to be with the Scots . It would be too long to relate all the stories have beene told me of severall passages and discourses used by Sectaries tending to a warre with Scotland , both by Sectarian Chaplains , Commanders and others of that way , as preaching to souldiers of another party , Formalists rising up against ▪ you , but they shall fall under you , as the pressing upon some imployed to Treat with the Cava●ier● to give them conditions contrary to Ordinances of Parliament and all reason , that our Armies might be at liberty to deale with the Scots , a● of endeavouring to remove some Commanders out of the way , because looked upon as great friends of the Scots , as of some imployed to sound and try men in City and Army how they stood affected to a warre with Scotland , as saying that they had been upon the Scots before now but for this City , and that they would upon Order from the House of Commons go as willingly against the Scots , as ever against the Cavaliers ; as intercepting and opening of Letters of the Scots , staying their Messengers at Courts of Guard by Independent Officers , as — , as — I shall therefore draw to a conclusion upon this head , and conclude , that in the Histories and Chronicles that shall be written of these times , the Sectaries wickednesses in reference to the Scots will be recorded and fully spoken of , and they will be infamous for it to all generations , and some particular men among them who now hold up their heads full high will be by name branded for their ●alsities and unworthy dealings with the Scots , and not caring to have involved the Kingdomes in a new warre for their fancies and New-light , of which themselves hold they have no such assurance or certain●y , but before next weeke they may see a contrary light . 4. Among all other wickednesses of the Sectaries , their carriage towards the Kingdome of Ireland and the Protestants there is prodigious , some of them having justified that Rebellion , others having reasoned against sending helpe , many of them having retarded and hindred help from going , none of them as I know having beene forward and earnest for sending helpe , but have cast in many objections , raised and nourished needlesse fears and jealosies of the Scots , and of plots at home , not caring to have Ireland lost over and over againe , rather then their particular opinions or designes should in the least be hazarded : In the beginning of the Rebellion in Ireland , when wee had no Armies on foot , nor knew not the way of warre , and wanted many advantag●s we have now , yet how was the House of Peeres cried out on , great multitudes coming up to Westminster in a tumultuous way , ready to pull the Lords out of their House , and all to hasten releife for Ireland , and to passe what was sent up by the House of Commons in reference to Ireland , and Oh how were those Lords branded that were thought any way to delay or obstruct succours for bleeding Ireland ? and yet many of those men who heretofore when helpe could not so speedily nor effectually be had clamored so against the Lords , in a time when all Armies in the Feild have beene sub●lued and hardly a Garrison untaken , and great powerfull Armies with all provisions and necessaries for warre have beene ready , though Ireland hath beene ready to be lost , and in a most desperate condition , have beene the great meanes of retarding releife , hindring many thousands ready in a body from going , speaking against the the Presbyterians for being so forward to send a great part of Army , and giving out there was a plot to send away the Army , and such like ; and indeed in this businesse of Ireland , Scotland , the King , their labouring to keepe all things unsetled in Church and State , the great wickednesse of the Sectaries plainly appeares . I here remember what I heard a worthy and knowing Member of the House of Commons say upon occasion of discourse of the Sectaries : How could any man think these Sectaries had any conscience , when as to maintaine a party and faction they fomented and nourished jealousies and differences betweene the Kingdomes , hazarded the losse of Ireland by hindring releife , kept both Church and State from being settled , and the great burthens of the Kingdome in takes and Armies from being taken off , these men to keepe up their party , caring not to let Ireland be lost , the two Kingdomes of England and Scotland to be hazarded by a deadly war , Gods honour and truth to su●●er , and all things to lie wast as they doe . 5. Their damnable hypocrisie , and abominable dissimulation ; and I am perswaded there never was a more hypocriticall , false , dissembling , cunning generation in England then many of the Grandees of our Sectaries . Now their grosse hypocrifie plainly manifests it selfe in these particulars , 1. they have covered all their practises and designes under the pretences of godlinesse , honesty , saintship , purity of Ordinances , tendernesse of Conscience , a perfect thorough Reformation , new glorious truths , giving to themselves and their party the name of Saints , Saints , the godly party , tender Consciences , and under that covert they destory all godlinesse , good Conscience , truth , are enemies to holy duties , strict observing the Lords day , humiliation , &c. encourage , protect , and cry up for Saints , Saints , sonnes of Beliall , and the vildest of men ; they have pretended and talked of Reformation , but are all for a Toleration and a liberty for all their party to beleeve and live as they lust ; they have talked of purity of Ordinances , and spoke against mixed Communion as one of their grand grounds of separating from us , and yet they have spoken and done all they could to keep mixt Communion among us , and to hinder a more exact and full purity ; they talke of tender Consciences and Conscience , when as they have Consciences can swallow and digest any thing , Ostrich stomacks , can lie grossely , deceive and cozen , prophane the Lords day , make nothing of holy duties , lay traps and snares to catch men , &c. they speak of new truths and new light , but under those notions bring in all abominable Errors and Heresies into the Church of God , pretend the spreading of the Gospel , and preaching , but in truth the spreading and increasing of all Heresies and Schisme . Secondly , they have pretended , held out selfe-deniall , have commended the selfe-denying Ordinance , spoken much against mens inriching themselves , seeking great places in these times , spoken of doing all for the publick , and that the Common-wealth might not suffer : and yet these men pretending thus , by such pretences have got into great offices and places , procured great gifts , as other mens estates , great summes of mony , great Arrears with the first and with the highest , make use of their times in their places as much as ever any men did , both for themselves and their kindred , sonnes , brothers , cosens , freinds ; and many of them before being beggars and meane men , are now fat , shining , and growne great . There is hardly a noted Sectary in the Kingdome , or lately come out of New-England , Holland , &c. who is in any kind capable of an office , place , gift , or respect , but he is in some one or other , and hath beene the better for these times . 3. The Sectaries have pretended the liberty of the Subject , the publick liberties of the Kingdome ; this they have much held out , and this they have fought for , they say , and not Religon ; and this is much spoken of in all their Pamphlets and Speeches , whereas Sectaries have for the advancing of their owne way and opinions , done the highest acts against the liberties of the people that ever were , and indeed make nothing of trampling upon the subjects liberties and making them slaves , being men that where they are in place , and have power , carry things arbi●rarily , making their wills lawes , making nothing of going against Charters , liberties of the peoples elections , &c. There are many sad stories in this kind too large to be now related . What enemies many of the Sectaries have beene to the peoples petitioning the Parliament to make knowne their greivances , what obstructions and blocks they have laid in their way in that kind by printing of , and wriring against their Petitions before delivered , by branding the Petitioners for then ill-affected , refined Malignants , driving on the Kings designe and I know not what , by preaching against their Petitions , by endeavouring to get Votes and Orders against Petitions , by labouring to molest the Petitioners to have them sent for to attend Committees , to be put to charges , & kept in safe custody , &c. is wel known to the Kingdom , and sure that 's a great part of the liberty and priviledge of the subject , and if they may not be free to Petition , what 's become of the liberty of the subject ? Such Princes in all ages as have been looked upon most for advancing their Prerogative , & oppressing the people , and been a gainst al defensive Arms and other wayes of the peoples seeking their right , yet still granted them the liberty of petitioning ▪ and would not prejudge that ; they have allowed preces & lachrymae to be the weapons of Christian subjects , though not Swords and Guns . Whether many Sectaries are not very forward to keep on foot all burdens and greivances of the Kingdomes , all payments in their heights , great Armies , Committees complained of , &c. I leave to ●hose who know-affairs to determine , and if these things be for the liberty of the subject , then are the Sectaries for the subjects liberty . It will bee found that the Sectaries , though they have pretended liberty , yet if they should come to have the upper hand , they would make the people of England the greatest slaves that ever they were in any time , and indeed rule them by an Army , and force instead of Lawes , and would trample as much upon the City of London and the Countries as ever John of L●yden , and Knipperdolling did upon the poor Citizens of Munster . 4. The Sectaries hypocrifie appears by their pretending a bare liberty only pea●●ably and quietly to enjoy their owne consciences , and that without any offence or molestation to others ; And however if this might not be granted after they had helped to overcome the common enemy , they would quietly sit downe and leave the Kingdome , not offer to make any disturbance , and this was held out along time in their speeches , and in many books . I have heard Master Peters speak thus , and he was wont in many places to speak thus ; and the Apologists in their Apologeticall Narrat 〈…〉 supplicate the Parliament to look upon them as those that doe pursue no other interest or designe but a subsistence ( be it the poorest or meanest ) in their owne Land , with the allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse , as not knowing where else with safety , health and livelihood to set their feet on earth : But by these and many other specious pretences being increased in number and power , and having gotten the sword into their hands , now they speak out , and are not contented with a bare Toleration , but stand for all the places of power , honor and profit in the Kingdome , crying out of the City Remonstrance most of all , because it petitioned against Sectaries being in places of publick trust ; its apparent a Domination they aime at , and to have things in such a posture that they may suppresse all the Orthodox ; hence many speeches have sallen from them to this purpose , that they will never lay downe the sword whilest there 's a Preist lefe in England , that they will pack them all away for Rome ; and this last yeere in many places where they come they ordinarily will not suffer the Ministers to preach in their owne Churches , Pulpits , but by sorce hinder them , yea pull them out of Pulpits , threaten them , assault them ; hence they will not endure zealous godly Presbyterians to enjoy any places in the Armies or other where , but watch for iniquity , use all tricks and unjust wayes to keep them out and turne them out , of which there are many examples . 5. The Sectaries abominable hypocrisie showes it selfe in yeelding to things against their mind and conscience , that thereby they may be in a capacity and inabled to destroy and overthrow what they seeme to be for , working and using all their power against it ; as for example many of the Sectaries took the Covenant , and do take it ( which they hate with al their souls ) that so they might come into such places , & keep such places , where being they improve those places all they can to destroy the Covenant , and the contents of it , hindring a Uniformity and the neerest conjuction in Government , &c. and are all for a Toleration , and instead of endeavouring to extirpate Heresie , Schisme , they promote it all they can , and plead for strange forced interpretations and Jesuiticall equivocations of the Covenant , contrary to all literall sence , the generall scope , and the minds of those that made it , alwayes so declared from first to last . 6. The Sectaries great hypocrisie is seene , in that in their speeches oft-times , many of their Pamphlets , and for divers of their actions why they do such things , and why they refuse this and that , as not hearing our Ministers preach , not joyning to our Assemblies , not paying their Tyths , with many such , they alledge the Covenant and bring that for their ground , t is against such an Article of the Covenant , or such a clause of an Article , when as t is knowne to God , and hotoriously manifest to all the world they care not at all for the Covenant , make nothing of it , but daily with a high hand breake every-Article , and every clause of each Article ; but their doing and refusing of such and such things , are upon other grounds and ends , as the saving their purses , their destroying of a settled Ministry , the increasing and spreading of all Errors and Heresies , and bringing in of confusion into Church and State : I could write a large book upon this subject how the Sectaries daily break the Covenant , and are indeed like to those spoken of in Daniel 11. 32. Such as do wickedly against the Covenant . I will begin with the first clause of the first Article , indeavouring the preservation of the Reformed Religion in the Church of Scotland in Doctrine , worship , Discipline and Government , &c. when as they daily write with all bitternesse against the Church of Scotland , their Discipline and Government , &c. yea , have furthered the printing and spreading wicked books against the Government of the Church of Scotland , written by Prelats , and their greatest enemies . O how is Master Burton in his Conformities Deformity in his 19 , 20 , 21. pag. guilty of breach of Covenant in writing so against their Church Government , as to stirre up Princes and all civill powers against them , as much as against the Popes Supremacie ? I might proceed to show though they take the Covenant into their mouth , yet they go against that clause of indeavouring to extirpate Heresie , Schism , prophanesse , &c. on the contrary indeavouring the spreading and growing of all Heresies , Errors , and so I might in the rest ; but I shall conclude this with one word , which is , that they are fearfully and hypocritically guilty of the breach of the solemne League and Covenant , and that if ever the Sectaries should be a meanes to involve and ingage in a war against Scotland , our Brethren in their weakest condition , even when their Armie 's put to the worse , might in the head of their Armie spread before God the solemne League and Covenant , and appeale to heaven to help them , as the great . Turk did once in such a case against the Christians , and might well trust , that God who is a God keeping Covenant , a God of truth that helped the Turks against the Christians , in such a case would help them his servants against the Covenant breaking Sectaries . 7. The Sectaries hypocrisie appeares in casting that upon others , and unjustly charging them with such things which themselves are faulty in , both practise and purpose to practise , only speak against such and such things in another party , that others being suspected by this meanes , and they not , they may compasse their ends the better : thus they have given out many reports , and raised jealousies upon many worthy men , as if not right , that they sought not the good of their Country , Religion , but only preferment , and their owne ends , that so they being taken to be the faithfull men , might raise their owne fortunes , and bring about their owne designes : many Sectaries have given out things on purpose of the Scots , that they are false , and alwayes were for their owne ends , &c. the better to hide their owne basenesse , being indeed that themselves which they falsely cast upon our Brethren : Thus the Sectaries give ou● , that if the Presbyteriall Government should be set up and take place , the people would be made absolute slaves , and under Egyptian bondage , whereas t is known tis a most excellent forme of Government , having appeals , and the Democraticall Independent Government a most slavish Government where parties must be Judges ; and there shall be no releif for an innocent wronged person ; and indeed these reports are kept up carefully , spread by many of the Sectaries , that out of pretences of liberty , and for feare of slavery , all things being kept loose and unsettled , they may come to beare rule by that meanes , be Tyrants and bring in upon the people by degrees both spirituall and corporall slavery . The Sectaries cast upon the Presbyter . division , being enemies of peace , worldly policie , whereas themselves cause all our divisions , and hinder peace . Sixthly , the great wickednes of the Sectaries appears in their fearfull mocking and abusing the pai●full , faithfull Ministers of God in this Kingdome , and the despising their words ; this is by the holy Ghost reckoned as the concluding sinne that brought that finall ruine upon Jerusalem and Judah , 2 Chron. 36. chapt . 16 , 17. Now the Sectaries do all manner of wayes by word and deed abuse the Ministers , by all kind of reproachfull railing speeches , wicked Pamphlets , detaining their maintenance , and stirring up others to doe the like , disturbing them in the publick discharge of their ministery , as preaching and praying , invading their Pulpits by force , keeping and pulling them out of their pulpits , driving them by violence from their houses and habitations , assaulting them in the way and their houses , putting upon them souldiers , and the most rude to vexe them , of which there are too many proofs by instances in Oxfordshire , Northamptonshire , Wiltshire , Glostershire , Sommersetshire , and other Countries ; and their wickednesse is the greater , in that they have no respect at all to the age , gravity , learning , holinesse of any one , but abuse the aged , the most learned godly as much as any other , nor no respect to those Ministers who have been the Parliaments greatest freinds , suffered for them , and have assisted them always , but use them even worse then Malig. Ministers , nor no respect that these Ministers assisted them with their prayers and teares all along in the warres , but requiting them thus to seek their destruction , who night and day publickly and privately sought their preservation , nor no consideration that these Ministers whom they now so abuse , were instruments of working grace in them , if so be they have any at all ; nor no consideration of such who are more immediatly imployed , sent by the Parliaments authority , but affronting , abusing them to their faces , and in print , as those Ministers of the Assembly sent to Oxford to preach and prepare for the work of Reformation abused by the Sectarian souldiers there ; all which , with divers other considerations , as the godly Ministers faire carriage and respects to them , though contrary minded , &c. exceedingly aggravates the Sectaries finne , and showes them to be monsters rather then men , not only to be void of all Religion and charity , but of humanity and common civility . And here I might adde many things more that clearly show the prophanenesse and wickednesse of the Sectaries spirits , as their scoffing and scorning at fasting and holy exercises , speaking by way of reproach of the morning exercise , and giving in Bills among those given to the Ministers to pray for persons , scoffing at these exercises of fasting and prayer , as at Master Cases Church , as at Master Seamans , and giving up Bills in severall Churches on the publick Fast day , November 25. as followes , You are desired to pray for the suppression of those Preistriden slaves who go about to get hands for the disbanding of Sir Thomas Fair●ax Army , who under God have wrought the peace of the Kingdome : As taking the wickedest men , the arrantest who remasters , prophane swearers , &c. by the hands , and in all publick societies and places , where they have to do , and such vild men are joyned with them , to keep off Reformation , as men going against all justice , equity , all principles of Honor , Religion , Civility , Humanity , and will do any thing , nothing can come amisse to bring about their designs , as men who have forsaken all principles of piety , and are degenerated into a State-faction , resolving all into worldly interest and policie , doing whatsoever may most advance that : So that all these premises being seriously considered , viz. all the Errors , Heresies , Blasphe 〈…〉 es , Practises , Insolencies , Stories , and Passages of the Sectaries laid down both in the former parts and in this third , may serve to undeceive many people in their opinions of Independents and Sectaries , and may fully show them they are not the men they have been taken for , and pretended themselves to be , but indeed a pack of covetous , ambitio●s , self-seeking , b●asting , proud , unthankfull , heady , feir●● , unholy , false people , which seeing them to be so , they may follow the advice of St. Paul , given just in the same case , 1 Tim. 6 , 3 , 4. speaking of men doting about questions and destitute of the truth , supposing that gain is godlinesse , From such withdraw thy self ; and 2 Tim. 3. 5. Having a form of godlinesse , but denying the power thereof , from such turne away . There is a great Sectary living in London , a Tradesman , who owed fifty pounds to a Citizen of London , which money this Citizen could nor easily get , but at last getting a bond , when it was due demanded it , and he not paying it , went to an Atturny to advise with about suing his Bond. The Atturny wished him to try again if he would not pay it by faire meanes , and to tell him he would put his band in suit ; whereupon this Sectary promised to pay him twenty five pound suddenly on such a day , and when he came it should be ready , and the other twenty five at such a time , with which answer this Creditor was content , and came one the day set for the first 25. li. which this Sectary told him was ready , and desired him to go up into his house with him , and he should receive it ; now when he came up into the roome there the 25 pound was ready on a table , but before he had received it , putting his hand into his pocket to pull out his handkercher , the Bond for his 50 pound accidentally came forth with it , which as he was looking upon it , this Sectary came of a suddain and snached it out of the mans hand and tore it all in peeces before his face , saying he owed him nothing , whereupon this Citizen being amazed , asked him what he meant ; he said he owed him nothing , come by it as he could ; to which the Citizen replied , I will have this 25 pound howsoever , and laid hands on it , but he threatned him to meddle with it if he durst , and knocked with his foot to call up some body out of his shop , saying to them this man will take my money from me by force , so that this honest man was glad to go away without his Bond or any of the money . Upon this he went to a Counsellor at Law , one Mr. W. related his case , desiring his councell in it . He advised him to make no words of it , say nothing , but at the Sessions endite him , and get a Warrant of a Suddain before he could take councell to fetch him away , and it may be being so surprised he would pay him the money rather then stand it out to answer it at the Sessions : The Citizen followed his advise ; when the Sessions came , had a bill drawn against him ; the Atturney who had seen the Bond witnessed there was such a speciall tye , the Bill was found , and a Warrant sent out for to attach him ; the Officer serving it and threatning presently to carry him away ; thereupon this Sectary confessed his evill , he entreated his mercy that he would not shame him publikely , it should be a warning to him for ever after , and so he paying the money , the man prosecuted him no further . A Relation of some remarkeable Passages of divers Sectaries , and of the Contents of severall Letters written up here to London , from good hands conc●rning them . THere is one Mr. Knollys an Anabaptist , spoken of in my first part of Gangraena , and in this third part page 48. 49. a Letter of his is printed : this man preaches up and down in severall Churches in London and Southwark● , and that with all fiercenesse against Childrens Baptisme , and against our Ministers , as being Antichristian , and having no call to baptize , and among other places , where he hath preached lately , he preached this Novemb. the 15. at Georges Church in Butolph-lane in the afternoone , on these words ; He that beleeveth and is baptized shall be saved , where after he had spoken of beleeving , in the latter part of his Sermon , comming to speak of baptizing , he used these words : I have spoken to you of the first part of the Gospell , believing , I must be faithfull and speak to you of the second , viz. baptizing , and of that there is as great a necessity as believing , and therefore I advise and charge all you who believe , to be baptized , and whereas it may be you will object , you are baptized already , I answer that is a lye , indeed you were rantized but not baptized , and that too was into the name of your God-fathers , which was blasphemy ; and not into the name of the Father , Sonne and Holy Ghost ; besides , they who did it , had nothing to do with Baptisme , as being no Ministers , but Antichristian : and whereas heretofore these Ministers of the Church of England rantized into the name of their Godfathers , now to mend the matter , they do it into the name of their Fathers . There is one Mr. Symonds a great Sectarie , Mr. Cradocks Colleague , who came to London since the wars , and preached at little Alhallowes Thames-street , and at the Tower , where I have been informed from godly understanding men , as well Ministers as others , that he hath preached severall strange things , as for a Toleration and liberty for all men to worship God according to their consciences , and in favour of Antipaedobaptisme , and so preaching once at Andrewes Vndershaf● for Mr. Goodwin , he preached high strains of Antinomianisme , as that Christ was a legall Preacher and liv'd in a dark time , and so preached the Law , but afterwards the Gospel came to be preached , and preaching at Laurence Pountneys summer was twelvemoneth on the day of thanksgiving for taking of Sherborn Castle , he spake of the great Victories the Saints had obtained for us , viz. the Independents , and yet now the Parliament was making Lawes against these Saints , with other things to that purpose ; and as at London he hath preached thus , so since he left London this last Summer he preached at Bath before the Generall strange stuffe ( as I have been told from understanding men who heard him , ) viz. against Presbytery , saying it was a limb of Antichrist , pleading for liberty of conscience , and for those who would not have their children baptized till they came to years of understanding , and for Weavers and ignorant mechanicks preaching , and speaking of these mens guifts , and having the spirit before learned men , and men bred at Universities , with a great deale of this stuffe , insomuch that Mr. Bode● Minister of the Bath ( as I was informed ) confuted his Sermon the next Lords day , and spake against it , insomuch that ●ome of the Independent Souldiers , as C. B. &c. ●lung out of the Church in the midst of the Sermon and would not heare him out ; and truly 't is a sad thing , that Sir Thomas Fairfax that valiant and well-affected Gentleman , should have such kind of Chaplains and Preachers upon all occasions to preach before him as Mr. Dell , Mr. Saltmarsh , Mr. Peters , Mr. Cradock , M. Symonds , M. William Sedgwick , and such like : and I have spoken the more of this Mr. Symonds , because I hear he is nominated for one of the Itinerary Preachers of VVales , that so the Country and Ministers may be ware of him where he comes , and that the Assembly when he comes to be approved of may doe their duties , and not let him passe so easily as they did Mr. Cradock . There is Mr. Burton of London a great Independent , who hath these five last years written many wild and weak Pamphlets , beginning with his Pr●testation Protested , and ending with his Conformities Deformitie , in which Pamphlets the poore man hath laid down many grounds of Donatisme and pure Brownisme , yea of Libertinisme and of a generall Toleration of all Religions , and hath laid about him , striking all who have come neere him without feare or wit , whether whole Assemblies and Societies or particular persons , he hath cast durt in the face of the Church of Scotland and their generall Assembly , our Assembly , this famous City of London , and the Honourable Court of Common Councell , the Ministers of Sion Colledge , particular Ministers , M. Calamie , my selfe , and others , nay he hath not spared his Brother Prynne , his Brother Bastwick , his good old friend M. Vicars , and in all these five years among all the Books he hath put forth , notwithstanding all the damnable Hereticks and Blasphemers among us , hath not had the heart to speak one word for God against them , which gives too just ground for the world to thinke M. Burtons former oppositions of Arminianisme , Popery , &c. was not out of zeale for God and his truth , and hatred of those errours , but out of discontent and spleen against the Bishops , who had crossed him in his hopes of preferment : For if it had been out of zeale against the errours , and not out of anger against the men , how could he thus patiently beare all the injuries and dishonours of Christ and his truth done by other men even a hundred times worse then before . Did Mr. Burton know what some of his wisest Brethren have said and do say of his Books , he would give over writing , as that his writings are weake , and do more hurt then good , would to God he would give over his writing : Shall I tell M. Burton what Mr. Nye said again and again of his Protestation Protested , I will if he will not be angry with him , it was this , that in that Book there was grosse Brownisme which he nor his Brethren no way agreed with him in , and that for his part he would as soon subscribe to the Book of Common-Prayer , as to divers things there . Shall I tell him what Mr. Symonds of Roterdam one of the moderatest and modestest of that way said upon the comming forth of his last Book Conformities Deformitie , to a friend of his that shewed it him , and asked him of it ; no , I will forbear least it should trouble the old man too much . I could tell some stories of Mr. Burton and his Church , I have a relation given me in writing by 〈◊〉 wh● was present and heard all , about a difference that fell out in the time of the Church-meeting , between M. Burton and a Butcher , and some others of his Church about prophecying , but 't is too long to insert here , and I promise it the Reader in the 4 ▪ part of Gangraena : I have been told a late famous story by divers godly Ministers of the City , of a great falling out betweene Mr. Burton and some of his Church , about singing of Psalmes , Baptising of Children , prophecying , and somewhat else , and upon some Brethren cal'd in to hear the businesse how far M. Burton yeelded in those particulars , both against his judgment and his practise , but I must reserve that too : I could make large Animadversions on his Pamphlets , and show many strange positions in them , beside contradictions , falshood , weaknesse , hard speeches against the faithfull servants of God , much pride and arrogancie , but I will for present animadvert a few things only on his last Book , Conformities Deformitie , in a Dialogue between Conformity and Conscience , and I shall refer all I have to say at this time to three heads : 1. To show the scope of Mr. Burtons Book , and what the man would have in it . 2. To represent to M. Burton and the Reader the great evill of it , and how unlike Mr. Burton is to what himselfe was formerly . 3. Propound some queries to Mr. Burton to show him how he is mistaken all along in the ground he goes upon . For the first his main scope is under the name of Conscience to represent the Sectaries as the only conscientious men , and under that colour to plead for a Toleration of them all , and an indempnity from all restraint by the civill Magistrate , and under the name of Conformity to brand all Presbyterians and to speak against all establishment of Religion and Church-Government by Magistrates and Synods , as great Hypocrisie , Idolatry , rejecting Christ from being King , &c. destroying the foundation of faith , and in his prosecuting this , besides Sion Colledge , the Assembly , the City of London , the Ordinance for preventing the growth of Heresies , which he fals fouly upon , he railes fearfully and speaks most wickedly against the Generall Assembly and the Scottish Church-Government , saying , that in the Generall Assembly there is the like Supremacie set up which the Pope 〈…〉 selfe ▪ claimeth ●ver Kings , States , Kingdomes , Common-wealths , that 't is a spirit of Antichristian pride and tyranny , of rebellion , and treason , in lifting up a Papall Throne above Kings and Kesars , above Kingdomes and Common-wealths , to the ens●aving of the whole Nation in their soules , bodies a●d estates , that it sets up in the Church an Oracle of Infallibility , and such a Supremacie , as no true-bred English Christian can interpret for other then Antichristian Tyranny , and all under the name of a Christian Presbyterian Church-Government , that if that Presbyterian Government be set up , thereby our Fundamentall Lawes , Priviledges , and power of Parliaments , Liberties , and freedome of all true-bred English Subjects would be brought under perpetuall bondage , worse then that eitherof Egypt or Babilon ; all which and much more the Reader may find in page 19 , 20 , 21. of-that Booke . For the second , Mr. Burtons great evill , and how unlike Mr. Burton now , is to Mr. Burton formerly , it may apppeare thus , in that M. Burton in all this booke builds up againe the things he formerly destroyed , undoing all his owne acts , agreeing with Canterbury , Pocklington , &c. in their Principles , and Practises against the Reformed Churches , particularly the Scots , and their Church-Government , M. Burton being Cantuariensis redivivus , nay let me not wrong the dead , though they were great Enemies to the Scots and Presbyteriall-Government , yet in all their writings I doe not find such rancorous malicious passages against the generall Assembly , as in this Booke of M. Burtons , he makes use indeed of the Bishops and their creatures Arguments and weapons against the Presbyteriall Government , and the Reformation , but withall goes higher ; and in patronizing and pleading for all Errours and Heresies under specious pretences , as they did Arminian Popish and Socinian Doctrines , not writing one word against all the Heresies and Blasphemies of these times , but speaking against my books and Dr. Bastwicks , for the discovering of them . O how is M. Burton fallen ! I heard a godly and ●●arned Divine say lately of him ( upon reading his Conformities Deformity ) that he had alwaies thought M. Burton to be a godly man , but he now thought him the greatest Apostate in England : He should not have wondered much to have seen such a book written by John Goodwin , but that M. Burton should , he could not have believed it , had he not read it , and certainely in his writing this Booke and many others , God left him : the man is departed from all his former principles of zeale and love to truth , he can finde no Deformitie now in Heresie , nor Blasphemy , but onely in Conformity to Presbyteriall-Government , and the Magistrates non-Toleration of Errours : The Lord hath made him a fearfull example , and all men may take warning by M. Burton , for turning Independents , who before he turned Independent , was so zealous against the least Errours , and the least Innovation in Worship , as that he would straine things , and make a great matter of a little ; but now he hath no heart against the greatest Errours , he can doe nothing in all his Pamphlets for the honour of Christ , he can see no deformitie in all the Blasphemies , Heresies of these times , but onely in the Orthodox Reformed Churches , and Presbyteriall-Government : and that which aggravates his sin is , he hath done this after sad and serious admonition given him in the fourth Corollarie of the first Part of Gangr●na , and after a great sicknesse , this Book being stiled by himself in his Title page , The first fruits of his late recovery from death to life : If any man 9 or 10 years ago , when M. Burton was upon the Pillory for writing against some great men , who favoured Popish and Arminian Tenets , should have said to the people , this man whom you now see thus suffer , and whom you so love and adore , the time is coming when he shall plead for a Toleration of all Religions , and speak against the Magistrate , for defending Religion by Lawes and Edicts ; this man , whom you thus see , shall come to preach againe in this City , and have free Liberty of his Ministrie , when all damnable Heresies and Errours shall be vented by preaching and writing , and yet shall never speake against them ; this man who hath preached and written with so much earnestnesse against bowing at the Name of Jesus , against people coming up to the Raile about the Table to receive the Lords Supper , against Christs dying for all men sufficiently , when the Divinity of Christ shall be denied , the Scriptures denied to be the Word of God , when all Churches Ministry and Sacraments shall be denied , he shall never write nor preach against them ; yea , this man who will not yeeld now to Bishops in a Ceremony or some outward matter of order to keepe his Ministry , shall afterwards yeeld to the people , and submit to base conditions , contrary to his judgement , as to forbear baptizing some of his peoples children , and to let singing of Psalmes be suspended , with other such like , and all to enjoy his Ministry and Church : Certainly the people would have beene ready to have stoned such a man , and said it could not bee , or if they had believed it , fewer certainly would have pitied him , or visited and rewarded him in prison : nay , when Mr. Burton was in prison , if any man had sent to him such a Message , that he should do what he does now , viz. write against , and be a more bitter enemy against the Reformed Churches , our Brethren of Scotland , yea the godly Ministers , Mr. Calamie , &c. then ever Canterbury was or Dr. Wren , certainly the man would have defied such a Message , and said as Hazael , am I a dog that I should do so ? and yet now we see what he hath done , and doth daily . Mr. Burton surely is in a sad condition , and I have often thought of him to be in the case of that Idolater the Prophet Esay speaks of 44. Esa . 20. hee feedeth of ashes , a deceived heart hath turned him aside , that he cannot deliver his soule , nor say , is there not a lye in my right hand ? The Lord in mercy open his eyes and give him repentance for this last five years work , and particularly for writing his last Book cal'd Conformities Deformity . Thrdly , I shall propound a few Quaeries to Mr. Burton , to show him how he is mistaken all along in his grounds . 1. Let me ask you M. Burton why you are so angry with the Magistrate , the Assembly , Sion Colledge , the City , for establishing and setling of Church-Government , if it bee of God , and they are perswaded so , why should they not be for it ? and if Independency , Brownisme , Anabaptisme , &c. be not of God as they are well assured they are not , why should they not be against them , hinder and suppresse them ? M. Burton you will upon your rash and weake perswasion hinder Presbytery all you can , the Administration of the Sacraments in a Presbyteriall way , may not then the Magistrate upon strong perswasions after serious debates by a learned Assembly , and Scripture-grounds satisfying their consciences , enact by a Law Presbytery , and forbid Independency , &c. 2. Mr. Burton whether is this a good Argument , because Jeroboam did evill , by a Law and commandement to set up the golden Calves at Dan and Bethel , therefore Asa , Hezekiah , Josiah , &c. might not lawfully command the true worship of God in their Kingdomes , and put down the false : and whether may not Magistrates lawfully make use of their power from God for good , because some Magistrates abuse that power for evill ; and if it be no good Argument , as certainly 't is not , then hath M. Burton said little against the Magistrates power in matters of Religion , for this is the way of his reasoning in Conformities Deformitie , and the strength of the man. 3. Pray M. Burton let me ask you this question , suppose the Parliament would by a Law or Ordinance set up Independent Government and the Church way , would you account this so great a sinne as Hypocrisie , Idolatry , &c. and if not , how can you then , the setting up of Presbyteriall Government , especially seeing the question is not so much about this or that particular , but the enacting by a Law that which all should conforme to . 4. Mr. Burton , I am serious with you , pray answer me , here are such and such men hold all kind of errours , and vent them up and down , and they say 't is their conscience , would you have them suffered to preach , write and infect all that come neare them ? if there be no such evill and danger in errours but they may be preached , printed , why were you so fierce and violent against the Bishops and their Chaplaines for preaching , writing Arminian Popish points , though they vented them in an orderly way , in comparison of your Saints , who goe from Country to Country venting errors ; in their own Pulpits , and when called to preach by Authority ; not intruding into other mens Pulpits , and printing with license , not in contempt of Authority . There are divers other Sectaries to be discovered , and their waies and preachings laid open , as Greene the Felt-maker , who was one of the first Mechanicks that presently upon the first sitting of this Parliament preached in our Churches publikely , as at Algate and elsewhere , and was one of that company that went over with Colonell Homstead about Summer was two yeares to Trinidado , but is returned lately , and now preaches in an Alley in Coleman-street , once on the Lords day , and once on the weeke day , where there is great resort and flocking to him , that yards , roomes and house are all full , so that he causes his neighbours Conventicles as Cretensis and others to be oft times very thin , and Independents to preach to bare walls , and empty seats in comparison of this great Rabbi , as Spencer sometimes the Lord Brooks Coachman an early Preacher too , as Gorton who hath lately set forth a Book cal'd Simplicities Defence against Seven-Headed Policy , wherein are many dangerous and erroneous passages , but I cannot speake of them now : the fourth part of Gangraena will supply what 's now wanting . I have lately seen divers Letters and some Petitions that have been written and sent up from godly Ministers and others to Worthy Members of the House of Commons , to some Members of the Assembly , to other Ministers in the City , and Citizens , concerning the insolencies , tumults , and strange carriages of many Sectaries , Commanders and Souldiers , as also other persons both men and women of their Sect , but it would be too long to give a Copy of them as I have done of others in the former part of this Book , and therefore I will onely relate the Contents of some of them : In one Letter a godly Minister about Bristow writing to a Member of the Assembly , tells him he had formerly written to him of a preaching Troope that had infected the Countries with errours , but now he w●ites to him that many of them breake into houses , steale Horses , and have been indighted here , These are our Saints ( saith he ) who need no repentance ; I am sure they need much grace . In other Letters out of Somersetshiere from a godly Minister who hath done much publike service , and is well known ( if I should name him ) he writes thus , Novemb. 16. 1646. to a godly Minister in London , I sent the other day into Glostershiere for rents , and there out of forty pounds per a●num , my Mother and my selfe pay five shillings per diem , and are now to pay sixe moneths Contribution to Glocester , besides payes to Bristow , and other taxes : If such things were done in the Scots Army , they would be cryed up and down London streets , some are resolving to represent to the House the same things as are represented out of the North and worse : we are able to do it , and speak nothing but truth . He writes also as followes , The other day Mr. Greenhill of Dodington in Glostershire was pul'd down out of the Pulpit , and one Minister more in Glostershiere were pul'd out of their Pulpits by the Souldiers , and Independents put up in their roomes : The Souldiers threatned me last weeke to pull me out of the Pulpit only for reproving them . This Minister also relates in one of his Letters , that upon a Lords day not long since in the time of the morning exercise , divers of these Souldiers plaid at foot-ball upon a Green or Common . Some Letters written from Oxford by some of the Assembly to persons of worth in London , mention how M. Erbury ( the same who is spoken of in my first Part of Gangraena , and in this third Part , pag. 89 , 90. ) came attended with divers souldiers to a meeting that the Ministers sent downe to Oxford had weekly , for the satisfaction of the scruples of some in these times , and there started that Question , that there was no such Office upon earth now as Ministers , that none were now to be Select Officers , but every man might preach ; that is , speak his thoughts ( as one Letter expressed it ) and propounded it , with divers of the Souldiers backing him , to dispute that point with them : what the carriage of the Sectaries was at the meeting to dispute it , and the issue of the disputation , I cannot speake certainly nor particularly , as having not spoken with any of our Ministers there present , onely I shall desire the Reader to observe this , That this Erbury who now comes on purpose to Oxford for such a disputation , and challenges our Ministers , when as he hath so many armed men to back him and to domineere , never could all the while he was in the Earle of Essexe's Army Chaplaine there , be drawne by the Ministers to any Conference or Dispute about the points he then held and often vented : * He was often moved to it , desired , but still declined , could never be brought to it , for then he knew he could not have those to backe him in his Dispute , who were Commanders of many men , and had the power of the Sword in their hands . A Letter out of Warwick shiere , dated the 2. of Novemb. relates that two souldiers did preach at Rugby on the 25. of October , and there said that no Minister was a true one except he was rebaptized , and that our Ordinances were false Ordinances , and the Printers have cozened us in printing the Scriptures , and more tenents they hold which now I cannot write , and on the 26. day of October they baptized sixe women in a Mill-dam about eleven of the clock in the day , which was strange to us in these parts . Some positions and speeches sent up in writing out of Staffordshiere , maintained and spoken by some of the Sectaries in the Army , belonging to Colonell Whaleyes Regiment , were shewed me by a worthy Member of the House of Commons , the sum of them is , that there are no created spirits , but every spirit whatsoever is God , that the Angells are God , and that the soule is one with God , that the Scripture is not the Word of God , they dispute against prayer with Arguments drawn from the omnisciency and immutability of God , they said they would goe to Hell , for God was there , and he was as much in Hell as in Heaven , they said where they were quartered , that they would pull the Committees out of their places , and sit in their stead : one of them meeting with an excise Booke , asked the Master of the house where he found it , whether he would pay money , the man demanding how should he avoid it , he said rise with us and we will free you , for they were all Knaves and Theeves : One of these Sectaries souldiers told a Minister that it was their worke to pull down such Antichrists as he , and that they made them already to quake . Divers Letters and some Petitions out of Oxfordshiere speake of many strange things done there by the Sectaries , as of severall abuses offered in the Church of Aston to one M. Skinner a Reverend learned and painfull preacher of 70. years of age by one Lievtenant Webb , by Colonell Hewson , and by divers others speaking to and opposing him in the time of preaching and expounding . On the 25. of October , 1646. John Webb a Lievtenant guarded with his Souldiers , as M. Skinner was preaching in his Church , started up and with a loud voice publiquely interrupted him , cal'd him ●oole three times , Popish Priest , tub-preacher , bidding him often to come downe out of his tub , saying , he taught lyes to the people : This Webb said , that himselfe was a Minister of Jesus Christ , and cared not for the Ordinance of Parliament , or Synod , for what were they to him , and in this manner he proceeded , troubling M. Skinner and the Congregation till one of the clock , and then in a rage went out of the Church , calling Mr. Skinner black frog of the Revelation , threatning he would preach in the after-noone do what he could ; and in the afternoone Web got into the Church before M. Skinner could come ( his Souldiers having picked the locks of the Church doore ) and took possession of the reading pew , and was there expounding when M. Skinner came in , Mr. Skinner being thus kept out of his seat , went up into his Pulpit , and setting a Psalme , in the singing of it , the said Web and his souldiers kept on their hats , whereupon M. Skinuer intreated them to uncover , considering they were in Gods presence ; But Lievtenant Webb cryed out aloud , souldiers and all ye that are on my side keep on your hats , which was done accordingly . The Psalme being ended , Mr. Skinner desired them all to joyne with him in prayer uncovered , but the said Webb and the other Independents would not uncover , whereupon M. Skinner being over the said Webs head , took off his hat gently , desiring him to remember about what a holy duty he was , upon which Web in a fury cryed out , my souldiers and Constable pull him down , cast him in hold till to morrow , and then bring him before me , at which command two fellowes went to pull him down with violence , but some of the neighbours laying hold on them whilst they were drawing their swords , by Gods good providence this old Minister of 70. yeares of age with much adoe escaped their hands , and after his departure VVebb preached , and in his Sermon compared our Church of England to that of Laodicea , that was neither hot nor cold , but lukewarme For that in Queen Maries daies , her Proclamation made them all Papists . In Queen Elizabeths daies her Proclamation made them Protestants , but now an Ordinance of Parliament makes them for Presbytery ; and he was very confident that shortly he should see Presbytery laid as low as Prelacy , or to that effect . On the first of November , 1646. Colonell Hewson came into Aston Church , accompanied and guarded with his Souldiers , contemned the Ordinance of Parliament read that day against Lay-mens preaching , and did preach whether M. Skinner would or no both forenoone and afternoone , he bid M. Skinner be silent , and threatned him , that in case he would not let him preach , he would lay him by the heeles , he said Mr. Skinner was no Minister but a false Prophet , an Antichrist , and he would prove him so to be in the afternoone by 13. marks of a false Prophet , which he laid downe in the afternoone . In June last divers Sectaries of Mr. Skinners Pari●h joyning and combining with the souldiers , did interrupt him as he was preaching in the Pulpit and would not be intreated to forbeare till he had ended , though he desired them and told them the penalty of the Statute in that case ; And among others , a Woman one Margeret North cryed to him with a loud voice , M. Skinner , M. Skinner , you take great pains with us in preaching twice every Sabboth and Catechizing , but all comes but to one Sermon in the end of the yeare . On the 25. of October , Colonell Hewson came into Wallington Church , and there interrupted the Minister one M. Price , as hee was at Prayer , and then afterwards as he was reading the first chapter of the Proverbs , and also as he did expound the foresaid chapter . The Church was made a prison for the Souldiers seven or eight daies and nights , there they made a fire in the Chancell , and tooke Tobacco in the time of Prayer and Preaching . In the foresaid Church did Colonell Hewson , and Major Axston preach , the one in the forenoon , the other in the afternoone being the 18. day of October . In May last one M. Rastell of Sydnam preaching on the 5. of Math. 20. Except your righteousnesse , &c. one Captain Nevill a Captain of a Troop of horse in Col. Rich his Regiment , being then and there present started up and said , This is fine stuffe , this is grosse , who can endure it , I will heare no more of this , he deserves to be pulled down , and many words to that effect , and so departed out of the Church , and walked without under the wall , where with a loud voice he uttered many contumelious words against the Minister . I have seen divers Letters out of Oxfordshiere , that speake of one M. Potter of Lutenor about a mile from Aston , leaving his Church , being driven from thence by the Lay-preaching Souldiers , who have for certaine daies made a prison of that Church , and have burnt up the seats and boords in the Church , so that it now lyes wast and destitute of a Minister ; and these preaching souldiers refuse to preach now in that Church they have laid wast , but come to Churches where there are Ministers who preach constantly , as at Aston , and divers other places , and trouble them in their preaching and performing of other services of God. A Reverend Minister in Oxfordshiere having lately occasion to admonish his Parishioners to take heed of Anabaptisme , for tha they denyed the Lord Christ that bought them by his blood shed signi●ied in Baptisme by water ; For in Baptisme we put on Christ , Gal. 3 ▪ 27. but if we be baptized again we deny him , and put him of as the Anabaptist doth , upon which Sermon an Independent neighbour desired to heare the Minister againe on that point , which accordingly the Minister did on the Lords day Novemb. 〈◊〉 . taking that text Math. 28. 19. v. And used Arguments to disswade from Anabaptisme , for it was a denying and putting off of Christ , whom by oath they put on in their Baptisme : Now Lievetenant Webb hearing of this Sermon , did in the afternoone preach on the same Text Math. 28. 19. bragging that he could by the spirit do as much ex tempore , as that Minister by study . The Minister hath sent to entreat a Copy of his Sermon , with a promise of giving him a Copy of his , that so the world may judge , considering all their boastings , who comes nearest to the spirit of God. I have received some Letters of late written to me out of the Country , bewailing the great oppressions and sufferings some of Gods Ministers undergoe both in their owne houses by souldiers laid upon them , and in Gods house by being disturbed and affronted in their Ministry , wherein I am stirred up not to faint in prosecuting the good cause of Gods Ministers oppressed , and his Churches in these parts laid wast , and the Ministers case is thus represented to me . The Romane Clergy have been Solomons flagellum on us many years . I but now the Lay-Clergy , these preaching Souldiers are worse , they be Rehoboams whips of Scorpions , worse then Solomons and Rehoboams , yea then the Spanish whip in 88. The Lord give us all grace that are under Gods rod , the wicked the sword of his hand , that our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may bee our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , our Nocumenta our Documenta , our Destructions our Instructions , our Corrections our Directions to Heaven and happinesse . And then there being divers sad stories related in the body of the Letters , all is concluded after this manner : O scelus Independentium , come Lord Jesus come quickly , and whip out all these Independent worshippers out of thy Church with a dog-whip . A godly Citizen of good quality and a Common-Councell man , being in company with another Common-Councell man , and a young Schollar , Chaplain to one of the late Sheriffes of London , and some other company , they being in discourse about many passages of these times , he told them this story ( which within a day or two after the Common-Councell man and the young Chaplain told me with all the names of the persons and circumstances of it ) that a great Independent , I will not say a Member of the House of Commons , being desirous to get another great Independent to be a Burgesse of Parliament for a place of note within lesse then 60. miles of London , spoke to this Citizen about it to further it , as having some chapmen in that Town , and the Mayor also his great friend , whereupon this Citizen did stirre in it to make the Mayor and others for this Independents Independent friend , and meanes were used to get voices : but after some triall of getting voices the Mayor of the Town signified that he thought another man who s●ood would carry it , most inclining to him , and that they should not have voices equall for this man , which this Citizen being certified of , acquainted this Independent how the case stood , and that it would be in vain for his friend to stand , but he made little of that , entreating him that the Mayor and those who were for him would go on to give their voices , and though he had the fewer voices , yet get him but returned by the Mayor , that it may come to the Committee of Priviledges , and then we shall doe well enough with it , at which speech this Citizen stood amazed , and wondred to heare such words come from such a mans mouth , and would have no hand to meddle further in it ; And I am of the mind upon good grounds ( which if there be not a redresse , I am likely to publish in print to the end the whole House of Commons may come to know and so remedy it ) that there is great need of an effectuall review of divers Elections of new Members , some sitting and voting in the Ho●se of Commons who have no right at all , and other men whose the undoubted right is are kept out by tricks and devices , which in this juncture of time wherein so many great affaires of Church and State have been and are in agitation , and votes of greatest concernment sometimes carryed but by two or three voices , yea by one voice , cannot but be a mighty prejudice both to Church and State , every voice of such a man being two , his own voice going according to that interest he judges will keep him in , and in the interim hindring another voice which according to all reason may be judged would vote contrary . Some Corollaries and Consectaries drawne from the Errours , Heresies , Blasphemies and Insolent proceedings of the Sectaries laid down in this third part . HAving made fourteen Corollaries in my first part of Gangraena and sixe other in my second part , I had thought of fourteen or fifteen more for this third part , with many enlargements in most of them , but because I see if I should give that liberty to my invention upon every one of those heads as I at first intended , the Corollaries would take up divers sheets , I shall therefore ( this Book being already almost forty sheets ) give the Reader but 6. or 7. of them now , and that in as contracted a way as I may , referring the rest , with all further enlargements to the fourth part of Gangraena . 1. Corollarie . Hence then from what I have laid downe in this third part of the Errours , Heresies , Insolent proceedings of the Sectaries of our times , we may see those places of Scripture in 2. Tim. 3. chap. from 1. v. to the 10. 4. chap. 3. 4. v. 2. Epistle of Pet. 2. and 3. chapters , and Epistle of Jude made good and fulfilled in our Sectaries ; and that in all particulars as if they had been written and prophecied a purpose of them ▪ As face answers face in glasse , so do our Sectaries these Scriptures , they being the full accomplishment of those places and those Scriptures ; the expresse and lively characters of our Sectaries : I do not know any one particular among those many set down by Paul , Peter and Jude , in those forenamed places our Sectaries faile in , but are in all points as like to those as one egg is like another ; and therefore though divers other places of Scripture in the Epistles of Paul and the Revelation of St. John do speake of the Papacie , as the 2. Thessal . 2. chapter , 1. Tim. 4. chap. 3. first verses , 11. chapt . of Revel . 17. and 18. chap. of Revel . yet these doe point out the Anabaptists , Antinomians , Libertines , and Separatists , as distinguished from Papists ; and if I should but barely transcribe those places of Scripture , without any application , as men shall be lovers of their own selves , covetous , boasters , proud , blasphemers , disobedient to parents , fierce , despisers of those that are good , Traytors , heady , high minded , lovers of pleasures more then lovers of God , having a forme of godlinesse , but denying the power thereof : For of this sort are they which creepe into Houses , and lead captive silly women laden with sinnes , &c. as through Covetuousnesse shall they with fained words make Merchandise of you , as that there shall come in the last daies scoffers , walking after their owne lusts , there should be mockers in the last time who should walke after their owne ungodly lusts , as likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion , and speake evill of dignities , as there are certaine men crept in unawares , ungodly men , turning the grace of our God into lasciviousnesse , as these are murmurers , complainers , walking after their owne lusts , and their mouth speaketh great swelling words , having mens persons in admiration because of advantage , These be they who seperate themselves , sensuall , having not the spirit , with many other passages in those Scriptures , yet they that runne might presently read them as written in great Letters in the foreheads of the Sectaries : For was there ever in our times a generation of greater selfe-seekers , boasters , proud , blasphemers , Covenant-breakers , unthankfull , make-bates , heady , despisers of those who are good , mockers and scoffers walking after their own ungodly lusts , despisers of Dominions and speakers evill of dignities , having a forme of godlinesse , but denying the power thereof , and so in the rest , then our Sectaries : let the indifferent Reader but remember what I have written upon most of these heads in this and my other Bookes , what spirit breathes daily in many of their own Books , as Arraignment of persecution , Martins Eccho , Englands Birth-right , Thirty eight Quaeries upon the Ordinance against Heresies , Toleration Justified , a Demur to the Bill against Heresies , Lilburnes and Overtons Books , the English Scottish game and what they have done and do daily against our Brethren of Scotland , the godly Ministers , the City of London , &c. and then I believe hee will confesse there never was a more desperate , ungodly , false , hypocriticall , unthankfull , proud , ambitious , covetuous , uncleane , cruell , atheisticall generation then many of our Sectaries in England are . It would be too long now to paraphrase upon all those Scriptures quoted , to compare our Sectaries with every character of those Scriptures , and to give proofes in divers instances and facts . I shall conclude this Corollary , that they are scoffers and ungodly men , walking after their owne lusts , by relating a passage or two of some Sectarian Souldiers belonging to Colonell Whaleyes Regiment . A chiefe Disputant of the Sectaries said that he would not keep out of Ale-houses for five hundred pound a yeare for the good wits that he met there , yet objecting himselfe by way of scorne , that if it offended his weake Brother he must not doe it : Being by way of reproofe told of one that said it was best going to Hell , for the brave wits were there , he replyed that if that were true , he would goe thither for then God was there , saying that God was as much in hell as in heaven : answer being returned him , that God would be found in Hell in power ; he replied that his presence in power and in grace could not be distinguished . A Woman being occasionally spoken of in the company of some of these Sectaries that she was said to be a whore , they said God had so ordered it , and if she were a whore it was as well with her as if she were honest . 2. Coroll . Hence then from all that Libertinisme and loosenesse of life in our Sectaries , we may see what unsound and corrupt Doctrine will produce and bring forth sooner or later , viz. wicked life and loosenesse of manners , and though many of the first Broachers of Heresies and Schismes , at first have beene outwardly holy and strict in their lives , as Pelagius , Schwenckfeldius , Thomas Muntzerus , and their first Disciples too , some Pelagians , Ana baptists , &c. because else their opinion ; would not so well take ; and indeed upon pretences of holinesse and greater strictnesse many well meaning and weake people , especially women fall to them , yet after a time Errours in life and corrupt manners generally attends errours in Doctrine , and that both as a punishment and just Judgement of God upon men for not receiving the truth in love , and in the nature of the thing : for as a foule moist head causes distillations of corrupt matter upon the lungs and stomack , so loose corrupt principles dispose men to a loose and corrupt conversation ; 'T is impossible ( saith Luther ) but that a bad life will follow false Doctrine ; for if men make Shipwrack of faith they will of a good conscience ; and therefore the Scripture , History of times and our own experience shewes us the truth of this , Peter and Jude speaking of false Teachers and false Doctrines set down at large their wicked and abominable lives , their uncleannesse , filthinesse , covetuousnesse , walking after their own ungodly lusts , having eyes full of Adultery and that cannot cease from sin , alluring through the lusts of the flesh , promising liberty , ungodly men turning the grace of God into lasciviousnesse , trees whose fruit withers , without fruit , twice dead , plucked up by the rootes , so Paul speaking of the seducers and the Teachers of false Doctrine , 2. Tim. 3. that shall resist the truth as Jannes and Jambres did Moses , describes them to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prophane and wicked men , lovers of pleasures more then lovers of God , men of corrupt minds , evill mon , &c. Donatus and his followers who would not acknowledge Caecilianus and his company for a true Church of God because they were not pure and holy enough , but thereupon fell into schisme and divers errours , yet he and his followers fell to all wicked manners , as Augustine shewes in many of his writings against the Donatists , yea in time they grew so ▪ insolent as to commit many rapes , robberies and murthers , and to proceed so far in offering violence to the Orthodox , that Honorius the Emperour was forced to send Dulcitius with an Army of souldiers to restraine their injury and violence . Augustine in his third Book against Cresconius Grammat . cap. 42. &c. showes that the facts and courses of the greatest robbers and Theeves were far lesse and lighter then of the Circumcelliones among the Donatists . * Priscillianus a Bishop who held many opinions of seeming holinesse , condemning all sort of flesh , and their eating as polluted and unlawfull , condemning Marriages , and perswading his followers to divorce from their wives , this man confessed before his death that in his conventicles he had often committed filthinesse , and violated the chastity of women of his Sect , among whom one was Euchrotia the wife of Delphidius the Rhetoritian . The * Anabaptists of Germany at their first springing up were full of seeming holinesse , mortification , full of devotions , fasting , prayer , so that they were offended with the Evangelicall Churches , because many wicked livers were in their Assemblies , and because their preaching had no more power to make those good who heard it , which made Luther and some other worthy men of those times at first to favour them , write in their behalfe when questioned , pity their mistakes , but within a few yeares they fell into all kind of uncleannesses , murthers and wickednesses , as Sleidan , Bullinger and divers other learned Authors have laid down . * Danaeus in his Commentaries upon Augustine de Haeresibus showes what sinnes accompany heresies , and how a loose life followes alwaies upon errours , The disorder of manners and contempt of all Discipline being the perpetuall companion of heresies . For he who despises the Doctrine of God , will also easily contemn the Discipline . Danaeus enlarges upon this subject , quoting places out of Tertullian , Theodoret , Bernard , that prove the wickednesses of the lives of Hereticks and Sectaries , as their familiarity with conjurers , starregazers , their uncleannesses , hypocrisie , which from their common Master Simon Magus , whose Disciples they are , they have all learned . And as Scripture and History showes us this , so our own expetience plentifully proves it , many men who before they were Sectaries , or upon their first entrance that were famous for the power of godlinesse , being now Libertines and licentious , making no conscience of the Sabboth , Family duties , &c. T is evident that with the errours of the times a flood of ungodlinesse is come in upon us , iniquity abounding and the love of many waxing cold , and I have in divers places of this Booke given many pregnant examples of the Atheisme , Uncleannesse , Drunkennesse , prophanenesse of the Sectaries . There 's no question , but many of those Sectaries who heretofore were outwardly holy and strict , having some secret lusts and sinnes which they were no longer willing to forbeare , ( however new light , free grace Christian-liberty , Spirituality were pretended ) fell to those opinions and entertained those Doctrines of Antinomianisme , Anabaptisme , Independency , as a way wherein they might freelier enjoy those lusts , and cast off that yoake of strictnesse they had so long taken upon them : The Apostle Paul showes the reason how those who creep into houses , prevaile to lead captive silly women , because they are laden with sinnes , the opinions and errours vented are suitable to the lusts of their heart , and so carried captive by them : many in our times who professed Religion were lustfull silthy persons , though this was covered under a profession of Religion , and therefore so soon as they heard of an opinion of baptizing grown persons , and that by dipping of naked women , they presently fell to it , as the best way to enjoy their lusts by , as the fairest opportunity ( and that held out now as a matter of greater perfection in Religion ) to feed their wanton eyes , by looking upon young women naked , to satisfie their unchast touching , by handling young women naked . It were easie to demonstrate how the love of some lust or other in mens hearts ( though at first not perceived ) hath been a great cause of so many in our times falling into the errours of Antinomianisme , Anabaptisme , Libertinisme , Independency , and so indeed in all times some wickednesse or other hath been the spring and mother of Errour and heresie , as pride and vain glory , covetuousnesse and filthy lucre , a desire of contention , an evill conscience , and when some lust ( though secret ) hath brought forth an errour , this and that false doctrine , then those Doctrines fully received daily strengthen and nourish those lusts , yea daily increase unto more ungodlinesse , as the not being liable to be questioned by superiour Assemblies as Classes Synods , emboldens men to broach and spred such errors , as holding that God sees no sinne in his Children , that all our sinnes cannot hurt us , nor all our good workes further our salvation , encourages men to sinne more freely , as believing that the soules dye with the bodies , or else sleep till the resurrection , yea that there is no resurrection , makes men say let us eate and drinke for to morrow we shall dye , that is since the soule dyes with the body , and the body shall rise no more , therefore let us take what we find here , enjoy our pleasures and satisfie our lusts whilest we may . 3. Coroll . Hence then we may clearly see from many of the principles and practises laid open in this booke , that many of the Sectaries of our times , Anabaptists , Libertines , Independents , are not onely against Government in the Church , all Authoritative power of Classes , Synods , but against Civill Government too . Monarchie and Aristocracie , both Kings and Lords have been cryed downe in many Books , Speeches , yea and in Sermons of the Sectaries ; and for Democracie , though in divers Pamphlets they seem to contend for that , as in opposition to all Kingly and Lordly Government , yet in pleading for it , they have laid downe such positions , as are not consistent with any Civill Government at all , but what necessarily would bring any Common wealth ( the most popular ) into a chaos and confusion : and had they any reason or wisdome , they could not but see the weaknesse of their owne Principles , and the dreadfull consequences that must necessarily follow thereupon , but as the * Apostles Peter and Jude speake of the Hereticks of their times , upon occasion of speaking evill of Dignities , and despising Dominion , so may we of ours , These as naturall bruit beasts made to be taken and destroyed , speake evill of the things they understand not : In a word nothing pleases them , not the Government nor any part of it ; not the Lawes , their designe is to have all pull'd downe , to have a totall change made , that being abrasa tabula they might write in it what they pleased , and might come to have the new modelling of Church and ▪ Common-wealth . O how like are our Sectaries to the old Anabaptists of Munster and Germany ! their very spirit having entred into our men : O how like is John Lilburne to John of Leyden , as if he had beene spit out of his mouth , M. Dell to Thomas Muntzer ! and so others of them to severall great Sectaries that I could name ! I dare be bold to say , and can prove it , that the old Anabaptists never delivered or held principles more destructive to humane society to all kind of Government , both Politicall , Ecclestasticall and O economicall , to all godlinesse and Religion , then many of our Sectaries ; nay I believe no instance can be given of them whilst they were under command , and in the hands and power of the civill Magistrate , that ever they carried themselves so scornfully and contemptuously to the supremest Courts and Judicatures of Kingdomes and States , and committed such outragious actions publikely even in the worship of God against the Religion established , the faithfull friends of the States , as our have done . 4. Corol. Hence then we may plainely see , by what 's laid down in this Book , our evills are not taken away but onely changed , or rather some persons and instruments removed , not the evills . There are other men now under other habits and names , do the same things , and farre worse ; for instance , one of the great complaints against some Bishops was the * putting men into the Ministry and to preach , who had been Serving-men , Barbers , and such like ; behold it is now in fashion , worse are now suffered , and that in such a way as the Bishops Lay-preachers never attempted , viz. to put by painfull Orthodox men from their places , whilst they with their ignorance and errours starve and poyson the peoples souls . Another great evill under the Biships was the corrupting of Religion , and destroying it in time by countenancing corrupt men , and discountenancing the zealous Orthodox under the name of turbulent violent men , who made divisions , &c. and is no● the same in use among us now ? Is it not more apparent by many Bookes written , Speeches , and Actions , which hundreds and thousands are witnesses of , that a Toleration and the ruine of the Protestant Religion is intended and designed now , then that the Bishops intended to bring in Popery ? Another great evill was the speaking against and reproaching the Reformed Churches , and speaking evill of some of the great Reformers , as Calvin , Beza , Knox , &c. which some of the Prelates and their Chaplains in some of their Books , Sermons , Discourses , or Disputations in the Universities , as Canterbury , Wren , Pocklington , Martin , Cosens , Duncombe , Mountague had done , and O how were these cried out on for so doing , but alas , now the Reformed Churches , particularly Scotland , whom we have covenanted to defend , and according to the example of the best of them to reforme , yet after such a Covenant , both Churches and the prime Reformers , as Calvin , Knox , &c. have been a thousand times worse reproached . And so I could go over all the rest , and that not onely in Religion , but in the matters of Justice , and the Liberty of the Subject : but I must take off manum de tabula . 5. Coroll . Hence we may see by all the Errours , Heresies , strange Practises discovered in this booke , into what a condition we are fallen , and from what fallen , that we can do and suffer such things as we do : I knew the time when it might have been said of us as of the Angell in the 2. Revel . 2. we could not have borne them that were evill , and this we had when we were at worst , we hated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans , but now wee have left our first love zeale , are become a people that can suffer any thing , the twentieth part of what we now make nothing of , but have pretences , excuses and pleas for , seven yeares agoe would have made us cry out bitterly , kept daies of fasting and prayer for ( though with the hazard of our lives and Liberties ) made complaints and spoken one to another , looked for the judgments of God to have come upon us , but now we beare all ; nay what was most evill in the Bishops and their Chaplains , for which they ( wicked men as they were commonly cal'd ) have been cast out , as Popery , Arminianisme , prophaning the Lords day , countenancing Papists , Arminians , &c. is new light and new truth in Sectaries and Independents , prophanenesse ahd ungodlinesse in them , is now become conscience , godlinesse , Saintship . Now the grossest Arminianisme without making mince meat of it can go down , we can swallow without any trouble Popish Arminian Pills , and that without being wrapt in gold , yea Arrian Socinian Tenets , and what not : We heare of no Remonstrances , famous Speeches , plain home Sermons now against errours in doctrine as heretofore , no Committees sitting upon Books , to deale with Mr. Dens , Mr. John Goodwins , M. Burtons , and divers others , as with Mountagues , Dr. Jacksons , and Cosens Books : Magistrates , Ministers too silent , the people also too contented and quiet , yea many instead of crying out and being pained at heart love to have it so , will prefer a man and give a great deale for some to preach errours among them and disturbe their faith , when as they will give nothing for an able man every way qualified to preach the truth : God may take up that complaint of our present times which he doth by Jeremie ; My people have committed two evills , they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters , and hewed to themselves broken Cisternes that can hold no water , hewe and be at a great deale of cost and paines for puddle poysonous water , but reject and slieght a fountain of pure and living waters . 6. Coroll . Hence then we may see from all the Errors , Heresies , Insolencies of many Sectaries in our Armies and among the Souldiers laid downe in Gangr●na , what a great plague and judgement of God to this Land some of our Armies and Souldiery have been , and are now more then ever ; namely in that so many Commanders and Souldiers diffused throughout the Body of the whole Army , yea some whole Troops and Regiments should be desperate Sectaries and Hereticks . We must needs be under a great plague to have those who should be the Instruments of our safety , and have the sword in their hands , to be such kinde of men , and to do as they do : Heresies and Errors in any men are a great evill upon a Land , a sad matter , but in the Souldiery 't is armed impiety , who by power and force may propagate and spread all kinde of errors and opinions without controle , and by marching from Countrey to Countrey , have opportunity of infecting all parts of a Land : Certainly the Sectaries in the Armies ( I speake now as a Minister of the Gospell , judging of things according to Scripture , and not according to carnall policy and outward appearance ) are the greatest plague and judgement of God that hath been upon this Kingdom this hundred years : when I heare daily of the errors they scatter , the insolencies they commit , and see what great evills they are the cause of in Church and State , I often thinke of a passage in a famous Speech , made by Sir Edward Deering in the beginning of this Parliament , speaking of the corruptions in Religion among us , to be first remedied before the Scots Army then in the Land to be considered of , used these words , or to this effect : Let the sword rage from North to South , or 't is better it should rage from North to South , rather then the corruptions in Religion not be taken away ; so say 〈…〉 , it had been better the Sword of the Enemy had raged from North to South , then this Sword of Heresie , and Plague of Error like a Gangrene should over-run the Kingdome as it doth : T 〈…〉 is destroyes the precious soules , and I am fully assured , the Sectaries in the Armies have destroyed more soules , and overthrowne the faith of more with their heresies and wicked opinions , then they have killed the bodies of their enemies with their Swords . The constitution of our souldiery , so many Sectaries being in our Militia , besides , that 't is a great and fearfull plague of it selfe , 't is a great cause of all other evills , 't is that which emboldens the Sectaries all the Kingdome over , and encourages that party to do so many wicked things as they doe daily , affront the House of Peers , abuse Scotland ▪ the City of London , Ministery , publikely print preach all kind of abominable errours . 'T is that which awes the good party , o● at least out of policy makes them not so zealnus and o●solute against the errours of the t 〈…〉 . 'T is that keeps the Church Government from going on a pace , that is a great remora to the punishing of Hereticks , &c. 't is that indeed which hath infested and infected the Kingdome so generally . There are few of our E●issaries and not 〈◊〉 ▪ Sectaries but are o● have been Souldiers , belonged to the Armies as Chaplaines , or one way or other have followed the Campe , they all smell of the Army , Hich , Knollys , Erbury , Dell S●ltmars 〈…〉 Peters , 〈…〉 cheler , &c. we 〈…〉 ay truly say 〈…〉 a B 〈…〉 : Our Ar 〈…〉 the N 〈…〉 of all 〈◊〉 and a 〈◊〉 evills , and 〈◊〉 we may see the true cause why all the Sectaries are so 〈◊〉 warre and keeping up the Armies , can not abide to he 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 ing because their Kingdome is in larged and maintained thereby ▪ but certainly it will never be well with the Kingdome ▪ till the Armies be disb 〈…〉 ded , or at least 〈◊〉 〈…〉 delled , the Sectaries put 〈…〉 God be me 〈…〉 ifull unto 〈◊〉 we 〈◊〉 in strange hand● , and things are come to a strange passe , and all wise men who have read Hi● stories understand any thing , and by together many of the Sectaries Speeches and Practises , conceive it cann●● but be very perillous to have the sword in so many ma 〈…〉 mens hands , and scare a new Tiragedy to be acted like that in G 〈…〉 and at M 〈…〉 ster by the old Anabaptists , yea worse 〈◊〉 The godly Orth 〈…〉 Ministers and Christians , and all true hearted English men may 〈◊〉 out and say as in 10. Psal . Helpe Lord , 〈◊〉 wicked walks ●n every fid● , when the vi 〈…〉 , and with the Prophet ▪ M 〈…〉 lachie 〈◊〉 Mal ▪ 15. 〈…〉 the proud happy , y●● they th 〈…〉 , yea they that 〈◊〉 God are 〈◊〉 delivered . The Sectaries of our Armies invading the Pulpits , abasing the godly Ministers , laying wast and prophaning the publike places 〈◊〉 apart for Gods worship are like 〈◊〉 , and like 〈◊〉 〈…〉 〈◊〉 the Houses of God in possession , nay they are like to those husbandmen in the 20. of Luke , that reasoned among themselves saying ; This is the heire , come , let us kill him , that the inheritance may be ours : So they cast him out of the vineyard , and killed him : The Sectaries knowing that so long as the godly Ministers and such a Ministry continues in the Kingdome , they shall never doe their worke bring in all heresie and confusion , the inheritance shall not be theirs , therefore they set themselves to destroy the Ministry and Ministers , that the inheritance may be theirs . The Apostle Paul 2. Tim. 3. bids Timothy know this that the perilousnesse of times stands in false Teachers , seducers creeping into houses to lead captive silly women , and in men reprobate concerning the faith resisting the truth , and not in so much in * war , famine , nor other calamities which happens to the body , and therefore makes this preface before it ; this know also , implying it was not so well known , and stirring up Timothy the better to attend to what he should ●ay and now to know it . Now if those times be of all others the most perilous where there are false teachers venting errours and here●ies but in a way of creeping into houses , how perillous and dangerous are those times where there are false Teachers and seducers ( holding all sort of errours ) armed , being Commanders and Officers of Regiments and Companies , who creep not into houses , but openly command houses and abide in them , and by their power can and do drive away the faithfull shepheards that should defend the sheep , that so the Wolves and Foxes may the more freely devoute them ; and that when they have ●avened and made havock in one place can march to another , and so go into all places by their power , forcing and commandi●g what they please . All which clearely shewes us we are in a far worse condition then when the enemy was in the height of his successes and victories at the taking of Bristow , or ever since the Parliament began : God is more dishono●ed , pretious soules more destroyed , all things tending to Anarchy , Confusion and new Broyles worse then before ; Certainly in God have any delight in this Kingdome , or purpose to do it good , he will deliver us from this wicked generation of Sectaries one way or other : They have , these three last yeares been encreasing and growing very bad , but this last yeare they have been outragious : I am confidently perswaded if a Commission were issued out from both Houses to faithfull godly men ( and they backed with such power not to fear the Sectarian souldiers ) to sit in the severall Counties to examine and enquire out the insolencies and enormities of the Sectarian souldiers and Chaplaines that were in the noble Earle of Manchesters Army , and now in Sir Thomas Fairfax'es Army , with assurance of protection to the complainants and witnesses ; there would be the dreadfullest and abominablest things found out both in opinions & practises that ever were heard of in any Army of Christendom , and most of the Cavaliers would be found Saints to them , so that t is evident there 's more need of disbanding and cashi●ring the Companies and Regiments consisting most of Antinomians , Anabaptists , Seekers , Antiscripturists , &c. then of Vand●●sks Regiment , of which there were so many outcryes ; and that justly too as I believe . 7. Corollar . Hence then by what is laid down in this Booke of the. Errours , Heresies , Practises , insolencies of the Sectaries we may see that never in any age or in any Christian State or Kingdom , whether Orthodox or Hetrodox Protestant or Popish hath there been such a sufferance and Toleration of those who have been contrary minded to the Religion established by civill Authority , as hath been and is in our Kingdome . The Sectaries talke much upon all occasions of Toleration and liberty of conscience in Holland , Poland , Transylvania , France , Switzerland , Turky but let any man look into those Countries and but understand aright what is allowed in those places , and then consider what is daily practised in England and suffered without all questioning , and he must needs confesse there 's no such liberty nor Toleration in any of those places : enquire and aske after Holland , France , Poland , &c. where there are Tolerations , whether , Sectaries , or Dissenters from what 's setled by the civill Sanction , do come into publike Churches , causing tumults and riots , and by violence put by the Ministers from preaching , pulling them out of their Pulpits , abusing them grossely , and preach openly with all kind of reproaches against the established Religion ? whether Books are suffered to be printed with license and sold openly , ●enting all kind of errours , blasphemies , yea branding with most odions names the Religion established , and the supreme Authority who settles it ? yea daring to present into the hands of , and at the doores of the houses where the supreme Judicatories sit , Bookes and * Pamphlets , with * Protestations against what themselves have enacted ? whether great numbers of Emissaries , Mechanicks of all sorts are suffered to be daily sent forth into all parts of their Countries and Kingdoms to draw away the people from their Religion ? and if any man in authority dare be so bold to molest them , though they abuse Magistrates to their faces , yet they are one way or other delivered , and presently fall the faster to their work again , whether the way to preferment and places of honour , profit , trust , command be in those Countries to oppose and to be most active against the Religion and Government established ? and the ready way to be kept out of all such places , and by one device or other to be turned out , yea to be brought in trouble be for a man to be zealous for the Religion and way of worship setled in that Country ? whether in any of those Countries if those who be Hereticks and Schismaticks , or Dissenters only from what the Magistrates of the Countries have established being cal'd in question by those in highest place for writing against and reproaching their Ordinances and Lawes , and thereupon affronting them to their faces and writing Bookes publikely against them , have they notwithstanding continuing in all contempt escaped without punishment ? and received those favours and priviledges which none before them ( though never so conformable to the Lawes and State ) have received , and so I might instance in many other like particulars : Now I challenge any man in all his reading or travelling , to give me any such instances in Holland , France , Transylvania , Turky , &c. but I can give many proofes in all these kinds within these three last yeares in England . In the Bishops times before this Parliament there was great favour shewed towards Papists and persons Popishly affected , but did they come into our Churches established by Law and bringing their Priests put by our Ministers from preaching and celebrating the Lords Supper , and set up against the will of the Ministers and Parishioners their owne Priests to preach points of Doctrines , and to say Masse ; or did the Bishops when Popery was most countenanced , suffer Popish Books railing against our Ministery , Church , &c. to be licensed by their Chaplains and sold openly : In the Kings late Armies where ( as it hath been reported ) there have been many Papists and Popish Commanders , yea and Priests , did they ever where they were quartered drive away by force the Protestant Ministers , and in the midst of the publike exercises on Lords dayes come with their souldiers and disturbe them in Prayers , preaching , and put up their Priests in their rooms ▪ I never heard of any one such example in this kind ; O what outcryes would these things have made if done either by Bishops or Papists , but these things are ordinarily and daily practised by the Sectaries ; Indeed the liberty the Sectaries now have in England is rather a Domination then a Toleration , a Raigne rather then a sufferance , yea their Raigne and Domination is swel'd so high that the godly Ministers and Christians who are for the Church-Government and way established by Parliament have much a doe to be tolerated and suffered , nay in many places they cannot serve God quietly , nor live in peace but are affronted , molested , thereatned , yea their lives hazarded : The Dommation and Insolencies of the Sectaries in England both in City and Country are unsufferable , and beyond all example ; and let but all things be considered , the nature of the Lawes and civill Government of England that all the people are subject to the same Lawes , and all the Countries of this Kingdome under the obedience of King and Parliament , none exempt , not some parts under one , and some under another , as in the Cantons and some other Countries , as also that great and solemne Covenant taken for the nearest uniformity in Doctrine , Government , &c. and the extirpation of all heresie , schisme , &c. with some other such like considerations , I am ready upon my life to make it good at the Barr of both Houses , that there is in England the greatest sufferance and countenance of a Dissenting party from what is held out and established by Authority , that ever was in any age where there was a Christian Magistrate , or that is in any part of the world whatsoever at this day : the Toleration in Holland , France , Transylvania , &c. in many things falling short of that liberty the Sectaries here enjoy . I had thought upon and drawn up twelve pregnant particulars with the proofes wherein the Toleration here is greater then in those Countries , but I must defer them till the fourth part of Gangraena , having enlarged this part already so much beyond the former parts , and my intentions , and shall conclude this seventh Corollarie , that if the Sectaries shall be still suffered to go on and all kind of errors and opinions vented for the future , as they have been for these three or foure last years , this will be such a thing as never was read or heard of in any age , or among any people , that the end and issue of a solemne Nationall Covenant made with God another Kingdome and one another for Reformation , should end in a universall Toleration and Confusion both in Church and State. 8. Corollar . Hence then we may plainly see by many speeches , passages in Letters , facts , insolencies of the Sectaries related in this Book , that the Sectaries hold not to their principles of Toleration and Liberty of Conscience , but only in receiving it , they will not give it ( when and where they have the power of giving it ) unto others : The Sectaries in all their Bookes , Sermons , Speeches , Discourses contend for liberty of Conscience , and that no man should suffer any thing from another for his differing in opinions from him , or be hindered in printing and speaking his conscience , and yet if the Reader do but remember the severall passages I have laid down of the Sectaries dealings with godly Presbyterians in City and Country , Army and Ministry , and in all places , he must necessarily conclude when they are grown strong enough , and where they can they will suffer none but themselves . In all ages Hereticks and Sectaries at their first rising , when but a few and weake have cryed for Toleration , liberty of Conscience , but when by being let alone they have grown to great numbers , and by their industry , subtilty and activity have got power in their hands , then they have been the greatest persecutors of all others , denying all liberty to the Orthodox , and this the Ecclesiasticall Histories of all times both ancient and moderne show . Thus the Donatists , Arrians , Anabaptists of 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 in Holland with other such like maintained and pleaded for a Toleration ●anquam pr● aris & focis , and yet after a time that either they got Princes and Magistrates 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 , or being increased in number got the sword into their 〈◊〉 , they killed , banished , spoiled of their goods , threw out of offices and places all those who were not of their opinions . And thus our present Independents and Anabaptists notwithstanding all their pretences of liberty and conscience have and do ( where they are in power and can by any way or means suppresse ) prosecute Presbyterians to the utmost , and indeed for this very end plead for liberty , and worke night and day too get into all places of power and command both military and 〈…〉 . It w●re too long to relate all the instances of godly Ministers and other worthy men troubled and complain●d of by them to Committees , of honest Christians troubled by the● means for discharging their consciences in petitioning the Parliament , and Common Councell , of all the godly Ministers put by from preaching in their owne Churches by Sectaries , and of their retusing to let godly Ministers of the Presbyterian judgement preach in any Chappels and Churches where they have power , of the many threatning speeches spoken by them against the godly Ministers , that they would leave never a Preist in England , that the Presbyterians should be dealt with as Malignants , sequestred ere long , and such like , of their not licensing any books or matters of Intelligence , but stopping the Presse all they can to men not of their judgement , of their incensing and strring up the Parliament in printed books to punish godly Ministers for laying open the Errors of the times , of their labouring to keep out of all places in Parliament , Armies , Livings , &c. Orthodox godly men , of their putting affronts upon , hindring of pay , turning out of places by one trick or other the faithfullest and worthiest men , if Presbyterians , yea going against all principles of Justice , Honor , Rules of Warre , Gallantry : What should I speak of all the affronts , neglects , complaints of , troubles , vexations , which have happened to many gallant , valiant , faithfull Commanders , and all because Anti-Independents , by meanes of the Sectaries , as Sir Willam Waller , Major Generall Massey , Major Generall Skippon , Colonel Harvey , Colonel King , Colonel Whaley , Major Fincher , Adjutant Generall Gray , Lieutenant Colonel Kempson , Lieutenant Colonel Jackson , &c. besides the putting by of some from their places ; what gallant man almost is there , but hath beene heaved at , complained of some way or other , affronted by some Sectaries , and neglected by having men put over their heads into commands , and they unpreferd , though places void : There are strange , but true stories in the Army in this ●ind , and some keepe a Register of them , and when time shall serve , may make them knowne , though for the present , because they see how strong the streame runs , and for the quietnesse of the Army they are silent , though they cannot but speak to their friends of these things . I have been told from a good hand upon the occasion of Adjutant Generall Grayes being questioned at a Councell of Warre for reading the City Remonstrance , that a great Commander of that Army writ a letter to another great Commander to this effect , that he wondred that they who were so much for liberty of conscience , and a Toleration for themselves , would not afford the same to other men ; but that Adjutant Generall Gray , because he was a Presbyterian , and that according to his conscience should have Articles put in against him , and be so violently prosecuted : And if the Sectaries dare do thus whilst they are a labouring for a Toleration ( as they say ) before they know whether they shall prevaile and have the upper hand , when t is evident the House of Peeres , the Kingdom of Scotland , the City of London , the Ministery of the Kingdome and the body of the people are against them , yea and whatever they vapor the greater part of the House of Commons too , what will they do if ever they should get their way established by a law , and come to have all the strength of the Kingdome in their hands , what will they doe when they are masters of the Presbyterians , that thus persecute them whilst they are Probationers ? Q●id facient Domini , a●dent cum tali● fures ? and therefore by these beginnings of Persecution , these Kingdomes of England and Scotland may judge what to trust to , and look to finde , if ever these men come to have power in their hands : they will be as bad as the Circumcelliones among the Donatists , as those Anabaptists to the Citizens of Munster , they will be desperate persecutors of the faithfull Ministers of Christ , thinking they shall doe God good service in killing them . The Lords may know what to trust to if ever the Sectaries prevaile , The Scots had best look to it also , they will finde them worse neighbours a hundred times then ever the Bishops were , all the reformed Churches had need contribute their help against them , for if they prevaile , they will all suffer and be much disturbed in their place . The Assembly of Divines shall feele their liberty of conscience , The City of London and Citizens shall be reckoned with , and paid for their Petitions and late Remonstrance ; The House of Commons also may assure themselves , they shall feele their power when they are grown strong enough , as is evident by many threatning passages in Pamphlets of the Sectaries , especially those Members of the House who are not theirs , but have vigorously appeared against them , they will pull them out by the head and ears , and kick them out of the House : Certainly the House of Commons so great and understanding a body , notwithstanding many flattering Petitions of late to them , crying them up in late Pamphlets above the House of Peers , and protesting deeply to be at their service and command against all the world , cannot be so weak as to beleeve them , and to think if the Sectaries get power into their hands , and overthrow the House of Peers , Ministers , City , that they shall escape and not follow after : they have written , spoken , done as much against them as the House of Peers , Ministers , Citie , and no question will again as they see their advantage , or are discontented , or upon some new light that they were not chosen by all the free-men of England , but only by the Prerogative men the Freeholders : No man knowes where these Sectaries will stop or stay , or to what Principles they will keep , and is there any safety then in adhering to such a party , and caring to please them who are off and on : T is evident even in those Books made against the House of Peers , and in which the Commons and their Power are so cried up , that many things are laid down destructive to that House , and in the midst of flattering the House of Commons , they brand them with in justice , medling with what they have nothing to do with , as matters of Religion : As the fit takes them they now will cry crucifie them , crucifie them , but what may they expect from that party if once all the Militia and strength should be in their hands ? To conclude this Corallary , I say , God keep me and all true Presbyterians from that liberty of conscience the Sectaries would give us if we lay at their mercy , and liberty of conscience were theirs to give . 9. Corall . Hence then from what I have laid downe of the Sectaries , as in a Mirrour and Christall Glasse we may with open face behold the true bottome cause of all our evils and mischeifs both in Church and State , the maine reason of the obstructions of all good things , why Religion and Church Government not yet settled , why Ireland not releived , peace not attained , and the great ground of all the miseries upon us , why such jealosies and differences have beene betweene England and Scotland , such discontents taken at London , why the Assembly and godly Ministers of the Kingdome slighted , many well-affected Counties offended , Petitions not regarded , the well-affected discouraged , many great greivances not remedied , many Delinquents protected and not call'd to an account , strange Articles given to some in Armes at some places contrary to Ordinances of Parliament , illegall elections of Members of the House of Commons taking place , so many scandalous pamphlets against Monarchie , the House of Peers and House of Commons sold openly , such high insolencies committed against the House of Peers as never were in any age , with many more , namely that great love and favour of Sectarisme and Errors in too many persons of our times : This is the spring that feeds all our evils , the primum mobile , or great wheele that turns all the rest about : Hence t is no matter though Ireland be lost , England and Scotland embroyled , Parliament and London at a distance , the godly Ministers hearts lost , the Kingdome offended , Armies and great Taxes continued , &c. rather then any thing be done against Sectaries : Sectaries must not be dis-eased or displeased what ever come of it , they must be nourished and increase , Erastian principles must be maintained and cried up , prophanesse let alone , open wicked men joyned with , and all to further Sectarisme and Liberty of Conscience so called . Whosoever knowes and hath observed the present affairs and state of things cannot but see the truth of what I now say ; and I challenge any man to instance in any one thing at least for these last twelve months , wherein so many evils have been and are upon us , but I will rationally resolve into that , and though other pretences have been held out , as sometimes priviledges , sometimes the liberty and safety of the subject , sometimes godlinesse , sometimes unseasonablesse an unfit time , &c. many things folded together , and indeed the love of Sectarisme sometimes so wrapt up in them that not discerned by all , as in all ages men have not wanted pretences , yet ●is apparent to all wise men that this is the very cause . Is it not evident whatever hath been pretended , the true cause of all the jealosies , differences and faults found with the S●ots , to bee a great love and care of Sectaries whom we know the Scots so hate , and therefore have done it out of revenge ? Is it not evident the true and only reason of the Cities being so slighted , reviled , such a change of carriage towards them to arise from their appearing against the Sects and Errors of the times , and striking in with the Ministers to joyne for a thorough Presbyteriall Government ? have not all the alterations towards the City beene since that time , and began at that time ? Is it not evident whatever is pretended , as want of time , the feare of the Tyranny of Ministers , &c. the cause why Religion and the Church Government is no better settled to be the love of Error and Heresie which they know the Government would destroy ? And so I might go thorough the rest , and therefore we may see to whom , and to what to attribute all the mischeifs and evils that are upon us , and further hang over us . Canterbury , Strafford , or whom else you will name , out of designes of Popery or absolute greatnesse , or what else you will imagine , were never greater causes of all the evills and mischeifs in their times , of differences with the Scots , of invading the liberties of the subject , &c. then some men among us are of our present evils , and all to uphold the faction of Sectaries and Opinionists and to make way for a Toleration , which to advance and bring about and themselves by that to greatnesse of place and estate , and to licentiousnesse of living , they are so madly set upon it , that they care not to run the hazard of ruining three Kingdomes , and reducing all into a Chaos of confusion in Church and State , that so they man have the creating of all new , and erect their Babell . But it may be some will say , t is wonder there should be so great a party loving and favouring Sectarisme and Error , as to be able to hinder things thus , and to disturbe the Kingdomes , and if there should be so , what may be the true reason of the exceeding great favouring of all kind of Sectaries and Libertines . 1. I answer , there are some men who have beene and are but meane in outward estate , birth , and place , and others though richer in the world , yet below in the vallies in comparison , and being exceeding ambitious , proud , covetous , and withall subtile , apprehending also by reason of these deep distractions and troubles in the State , an opportunity of becoming great and raising themselves by being the heads of a great party , and getting an interest and great power in many people , and knowing the corruption of mens hearts , how pleasing liberty and to have a mans swinge is , and observing which way the pulse of the present times beat , thereupon have set themselves to stand for , countenance all kind of Errors and all kind of men whatever they be that doe walke in irregular wayes : These men being Politicians know that the appearing for any one Sect two or three , and restraining the rest will not doe their work , make them the heads of such a considerable party as be able to deale with the opposition they may likely meet with in their ambitious designes , but if they would doe good upon it , they must let loose the rains to all Errors whatsoever , Errors against the Scriptures , against denying a God , the Trinity , &c. they must preferre all sorts of men of those principles one as well as another , constantly stand by , and appeare for all that are questioned in that way let their opinions be what they will , their carriages never so insolent in the spreading of them , and their persons never so unworthy and contemptible , on the contrary opposing , undermining and breaking all those who are active against their party , and by thus doing , proclaiming as it were open liberty to all men according to their severall wayes and lusts , Papists , Atheists , Libertines , &c. they are in a faire way in some convenient time ( keeping off any thing too from being settled ) to have so many freinds as to be able to help them into the saddle , especially at a time when others are justled out . Jeroboam to keep the people to him , and to strengthen the Kingdome , fearing least they should returne from him to Rehoboam , took counsell and made two golden Calves , and said to the people t is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem , and instead of the sonnes of Levi made Preists of the people , for the Calves which he had made , and whosoever would might become one of the Preists : So there are too many in our dayes that they may get the people to them , and strengthen their power have made golden Calves , set up the Doctrine of Toleration of all Religions , a worshipping of Calves , and give liberty to whosoever will the lowest of the people to be Preists , Coblers , Shoe-makers , Tinkers , Taylors , to preach , administer Sacraments , &c. and that because t is too much for the people , as Jeroboam said , too much slavery , subjection to depend upon Ministers , too much for the people to pay Tyths and part with so much of their meanes , they shall enjoy all freely , and thus by prophecying ●alse Doctrine , and allowing whoever will to prophesie they may come to beare rule by that means , as Jeremie speaks . 2. Though there seeme not Sectaries , viz. formall Sectaries , so many as to be able to carry things thus to the disturbance of the Kingdome , yet if we consider whom they make use of , and strike in with , and by their policies and activities , pretences have drawne in to their party ; no wonder Sectarisme hath such a power and influence upon affairs , for with the Sectaries are joyned the loosest and wickedest men , whom they tell they will let enjoy their lusts , not force them to go to Church , or any Government , the men who have got good offices and places of profit , who before they had such were known ( divers of them ) to go contrary , but now stick close to them to keep their places , needy meane men , that so they may get something by fishing in troubled waters , guilty obnoxious men , that they be kept from being called to account , men unduly and illegally chosen into places , that so they may not be turned out , some simple weak men who are by the Sectaries cunning , putting fair glosses upon soule things , and jumbling other things of interest of the Kingdome , publick sa●ety , liberty , &c. meerly cheated : Now all these joyning with them , and they to gaine and keep them , applying themselves in suitable wayes to every one of these sorts , every wise man may easily conceive how Sectaries may prevail as they do , here 's a chain consisting of so many links as may draw a great weight after it , though all this while the first link is the love of Sectarisme and errors unto which all the other are fastned , and that which drawes all the rest , this is the Head Faction , the others only subservient , this first raised and now upholds all the rest to uphold it selfe , and these others without that could not stop all the good , and be the cause of so many mischiefs and evils that are upon this Kingdom . 10. Corall . Hence then from all this Discovery of the Sectaries laid downe in this Book , their Errors , strange wayes , insolent proceedings , many middle men well-meaning people drawne in by them , meerly co●oned by their faire pretences and specious showes , should upon this making them so naked , and pulling the Sheeps skins over the Wolves yeeres , come out from them , and instead of siding any longer with them , turne to the Ortho ●ox godly party , to help the Lord against them ; as also such Presbyterians who know the Sectaries well , should from all this be stirr'd up to shake off their dulnesse , lazinesse , and become active , vigilant , diligent , naturally caring for the state of things , contending and striving earnestly for the truth of God against the Sectaries of these times ; and now in the conclusion of this Third Part I will hint a few things both to those who have beene deceived by the Sectaries , and to the Presbyterians who well know them . To the first sort , consider , have you not beene too long cheated and carried along with faire pretences almost to the utter ruine of Religion and the Kingdome ? have you not , and doe you not see in many affaires one thing pretended and another intended ? doe you not see evidently that their godlinesse is gaine and great places , that their zeale for preaching and spreading the Gospell , is to have all Errors and Heresies of a suddaine spread over the Kingdome , and so in other things , and will you still suffer your selves to be deceived by them ? there are some who were courted and complemented with , and doe confesse they were deceived by them , and have left them , doe you so likewise , and deliver your selves and the Kingdome thereby out of this Babell . Secondly , consider you had as good leave them at first as at last , for either you must resolve to go thorough with them in all their designes , and to the highest , which I suppose midling well meaning men intend not , but abhor to think of , or else if not , then when they have by your help effected and brought about their ends , they will cast you off , and you shall be served with the same sauce as the zealous Presbyterians , thus the Prelats served divers whom they made use of , and would not go on with them in every thing , and so will the Sectaries serve many well-meaning men who know not the depths of Satan , therefore 't is better for you to leave them , then that they being made strong by your meanes should in the end ruine and destroy you ; and let such moderate well-meaning men know , that if they will still adhere to that party after all these discoveries of them , God will look upon them as partakers of all their sinnes , will destroy them with the Sectaries , and they are like to perish in the gain-saying of Core ; and therefore I bespeak ▪ them in the words of Moses , Numb . 16. 26. Depart I pray you from the Tents of these wicked men , touch nothing of theirs , least yee be consumed in all their sinnes ; feare , suspect every motion that comes from that party , though it seeme never so good , though propounded by others not of their way , and if it be not a thing exceeding cleare and certaine to thee , take heed of closing in with it , rather suspend and advise upon it : for these Sectaries often act by other men , get good men who see not their depths to promote their cause , hiding alwayes the hook of their designes under the bait of priviledge , liberty , safety , godlinesse , all which are not regarded by them , but the doing of their work , the increase of Sectarisme and Error . For the other sort the Presbyterians , consider , what a shame 't is that a handfull of men in comparison should by their activity , diligence , minding their work , bring things to that passe they are , in our Armies , Councels , City , Country , and the Presbyterians of both Kingdomes ten times as many ●it still ( as it were ) and suffer them ? Oh if so few have done so much , and that in a bad cause , what might not we doe in a good cause , if courageous , zealous , and intent upon it ? certainly we might in a short time break the hearts and the neck of that faction ; and in speciall , if the City of London and the Government of it would appeare as they might , and when they have begun , follow and prosecute it in beginning to put the Lawes in execution against those who come not to Church , in punishing those Sectaries who live under their jurisdiction and government for abusing them in print , in taking care that no Sectarie have any office or place of government in the City , in petitioning the Parliament againe and againe , they might by the blessing of God quickly remedy all : If I should but mind the City of the solemne Covenant they have taken to endeavour in their places the extirpation of Heresie and S●hisme , of what the Kingdome , all good and honest men expect from them in this kind , of all the affronts and injuries they have suffered from that party , and by meanes of that party , and of all they shall surely suffer from that party if they prevaile , be trampled upon and made slave● , used as the poore Citizens of Munster were by the Anabaptists ; these and many such other would make them take heart , arise and be doing ; but I shall conclude all with turning my selfe to Christ , and that in the words of Ve●elius in alike case against the Arminians of Holland , * Arise O Lord Jesus , have mercy upon these Kingdomes , vindicate thy owne glory . To thee who with the Father and the holy Spirit art that one and only true God , be honor , glory and praise for ever , Amen . Postscript . GOod Reader , I conceive before this time thou hast expected my larger and fuller Reply to Cretensis , promised in the Second Part of Gangraena ; as also some Answers from me to severall Pamphlets put out against some Parts and peeces of my Gangraenaes , as to Master Burrowes Vindication , Gangraena playes Rex , Lancesters-La●ce , Gangraena-chrestum , A Discovery of a Beame in Master Edwards his eye , A Prediction of Master Edwards conversion , A Parable or Consultation of Physitians upon Master Edwards , Some passages of S●●tmarsh against me , printed in a Pamphlet against Master Gataker , Master Ley and some others : Now of all these or most of these , I shall give so good an account and reason at this time , as I question not will very well satisfie the Reader : For my fuller Reply unto Cretensis ( some part whereof was printed before the Second Part of Gangraena came forth ) I proceeded no further upon these Reasons : Many judicious and learned friends told me I had given such a satisfactory Answer already to Cretensis , that they thought the Second needlesse , and desired me rather to set forth some other Tractates ; as also upon the coming out of my Second Part of Gangraena I was assured from some who at the presse and from the presse had seen divers sheets and read some part , that an Answer of Cretensis to my Antapologie was printing , and would come abroad ●re long ; whereupon I thought best to deale with Master Goodwin once for all , to take that in , make it all one work , and not to trouble my self any more with him till the man should come to write matter and Reason , and not only words and meer flourishes . Now before his Anapologesi●t●s Antapologias came forth , I was resolved upon writing this Third Part , and had entred upon it , and so till I had finished that , and another that is to follow upon it , viz. A Treatise against Toleration , I purposed to let Cretensis alone ; only I have among other great Sectaries spoken something of him in this Book , and that upon occasion of his 38. Queries upon the Ordinance against Heresies , and other things that have come to my knowledge concerning him . As for his pretended Reply to my Antapologie besides the censure given of it in page 120. of this Book , I affirme , t is an Answer unworthy a Scholar or an ingenuous man , and such a one as I am confident never any man who had the name of a Divine , and in Controversies of Divinity ever gave the like , instead of answering Arguments , Reasons , matters of fact , to fill up many sheets with finding and making faults in words and phrases , playing the part of a Grammaticastor , a Paedantical usher , and a sub-corrector of the presse , rather then of a learned Answerer : for suppose all those Grammatical literal exceptions raked together were faults indeed , and let passed by me ( all he saith in that kind true ) which I deny , and shall prove the contrary ( some of them being the faults of the Printer , and by me put in among Errata , others of them good Grammar , yea Elegancies and Proverbiall sayings ) yet what 's all that to my Antapologie ? though there be many Grammatical and litterall faults , improper phrases , harsh and hard expressions , how do these Answer Reasons , disprove matters of fact , vindicate and set right the Apologetical Narration , which must be done to satisfie any judicious and impartiall Reader ? I appeale to any man who hath common sense or reason , whether matters of fact charged , be proved false , or reasons made weak , or they be answered , by saying there was a verbe left out , the nominative case and verbe were no● well put together , the antecedent and the relative not rightly placed , such a phrase was harsh or improper , and whether such a kind of Answer be not ridiculous to Scholars and learned men ? It hath been the course of many men who have had a bad cause , and knew not how to maintain it with Arguments , to slight the men who have wounded their cause , as no scholar● , and to brand their books as wanting learning ; thus some Papists have done in Answer to Protestants , Prelates to Non-conformists , and Arminians to the Orthodox , but Master Goodwin is gone a note beyond all , further then ever any Author did , to spend his time and abuse the reader with giving him Grammaticall faults ; what Book is there writ by any man ( especially one who hath much other work ) of forty sheets , that if a Reader will set himself to find faults and to wyer-draw every word and phrase , may not find such faults enough between the Author whose mind is intent upon the matter and scope of his work , and the Printer at the presse ? I could give many instances of greater Errata in this kind , in Books of the most learned men , then any Cretensis hath observed in mine , and that both in Latine and English , but I shall instance only in two , Voe●ius his Book intituled Desperata causa Papatus , and Rivets Catholicus Orthodoxus ; nay , I will undertake Master Goodwins Answer to the Antapologie ( though it consists of fewer sheets hath the largest Errata of any such English book I have seen this last five years , the design of the book being also to disparage me by observing false English , improper Phrases , &c. and therefore cannot be but in reason expected he would be more specially carefull and exact in that kind then in other of his Books ) to find and prove more faults in all those kinds , yea grosser then any are in mine ; and indeed the man trips in all tongues he makes use of in his Book , both Greek Latine and English , as I shall hereafter show , nay the man stumbles in Limine , the first word of his Title page and Book being false Greek , using a word viz. Anapologesiates , there being none such in the Greek tongue ; and if he say he meant it not one word , but two , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 having relation to Antapologias , I Reply , t is strange that in the Title page he who is such a severe Critick upon other mens words should have no greater care of his own then to let them so passe , as to let two words be put in one : but 2ly granting Master Goodwin this Salvo , yet t is false Greek , for it should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with an Eta , not with an Epsilon as he makes it . And I suppose were there no other proofs of the strength and weight of my Antapologie , Master Goodwins Reply to it would be a sufficient and demonstrative testimony , that he after two yeeres and upwards for want of substantiall objections and materiall exceptions against it , should fall upon words and phras●s , Grammaticall mistakes , and not Theologicall , show himself such a T●ifler and Scribler as he hath done , for which learned work ( I assure him ) he will never be reckoned among the Schoolmen , however he may and hath been among the Schoolboyes . That man who hath a Lordship a Manor propounded to him , & after a ful view of , and enquiry into it , can find no fault with the Tenure , Title , dweling house , water , wooding , situation of it , &c. but cavils that some strawes are upon the ground , some sticks are broken in a hedge , a pane or two of glasse is cracked , the Evidences for the Land are not so fairly written , nor in so good language as they might possibly have bin , t is a good sign & clear Argument t is an excellent Manor and Lordship that nothing else is objected against it . So when a Book hath passed the test and triall of a cruell adversary who dares say any thing so it will serve his turne , and yet can find nothing to except against it , but what is common to all mens Books , some mistakes in words and phrases , Errata of the Presse , ( there being no Book without such ) such a man instead of weakning the Authority of that Book , hath among all wise men with a high hand confirmed it and accquitted it from all the aspersions and imputations of weaknesse , falsenesse ; all men concluding had there been any great matters of exceptions , they would have been produced , and not the time spent in picking of strawes , and catching of flyes , catching at words and phrases , and letting the matter alone . And for conclusion of this , I would have this Trifler and great Rabbi of the English tongue know , that though in his conceit I cannot put the Nominative case and Verbe together , &c. yet by the help of God , I can put such sense and reason together , such matters of fact and truth together , that in the controversies of the times of the Church , Government , Toleration , mixt Communion , Lay-mens preaching , &c. I can put Cretensis and the Apologists together , answer them ; and offer to deal with any of them , or all of them upon any of the points controverted , and I can put forth an Answer to their new Modell and shake their Babel ; and if God spare me life and h●al●h but a few yeares , they shall find by Gods gracious help , that by my pen and preaching ( not with swords and armed men as they propagate their cause ) I shall make Independencie , Anabaptisme , all kind of Sectarisme and a Toleration as vild and cheap as ever L●tther made the Popes Supremacy , Indulgences and Pardons , Purgatory , and the Doctrine of merit ; and however Master Goodwin pu●s a bold face upon it , writing thus to cast a scorn , jeare , and a blur upon my writings , which he cannot tell how to Answer yet I know and can prove it , he and his party fear my writings , and are more troubled at them then at any other mans who hath yet appeared . As for Mr Burroughs Vindication , presently after it came forth I drew up an Answer to it of about some ten sheets , an Answer so full , that hardly a line escaped without some Animadversion ; and had I thought his time had been so short , it had come forth in his life , that he might have confidered what he had done in that Answer ( which I had in a plaine home way charged on his Conscience ) and how unlike the spirit that breathed in that Book was to what Master Burroughs had written of a gracious spirit , of Selfe-deniall , of Love and brotherly agreement ( being a book made up of great passion , horrible pride , scornfulnesse , equivocations , many un truths as I have fully shewed ) but being more carefull and zealous of Gods name and truth , then mine own , and seeing that so deeply suffer in the Errors , Heresies , Blasphemies , Insolent practises of the Sectaries , I laid my Answer by , from fully perfecting it till I had put forth a Third Part of Gangraena , and a Treatise against Toleration , then resolving to re-assume my Answer to Master Burroughs , Master Goodwin , and some others of them : but it hath pleased God ( before my Third Part of Gangraena could be printed ) to take Master Burroughs out of this life ( for which I am heartily sorry , and the more , besides that I should have bin glad he might have read my book , because I do conceive the putting it forth after his death may be liable to more mis-constructions then it could have been in his life time ) so that now whether I should publish it I or no , or rather let it dye with Master Burroughs , I am in suspense , and shall advise upon it what may be best in that case ; however I am fully satisfied t is lawfull for a man in severall cases to put out Answers to Books though the Authors of them be dead ; and in regard Master Burroughs dealt so uuworthily with me , I might be well excused if I should put it forth ; but whether I do or no , I desire the Reader to take notice of my Answer to two or three particulars , I for his excusing himself about that objected , he gave under his hand concerning the story of Nichols , by saying the story of Nichols page 79. is all false ( all of it being proved true , and a mistake only in a Circumstance ) that he meant only that part of it in that page , not medling with that in another page : I Answer , This is a new equivocation brought to salve the other ; for as the first was an equivocation upon the word such a meeting , so this is upon the page 79. and if he intended not to deceive the Reader by possessing him against me , why did he not say , that part of the story of one Nichols page 79. was false , but that story Master Edwards hath , which implies the whole , and t is apparent Mr Goodwin , and all Mr Burroughs friends took it so , viz. of the whole ; and if Master Burroughs had been alive , I had provided an Appeale to his Conscience to have put him to answer me as in the presence of God , whether in writing that paper sent to Cretensis , he did not think men would not , or could not find it out , but would take it as conceiving all that story of Nichols false ; and if Master Burroughs had meant fairly , why did he not acknowledge what was true in the story , as the first part now confessed true , and for the Second Part of it , why did he not confesse at a meeting Master Greenhill told him such and such things , and that he answered Mr Greenhill so and so , and have denied it was a set meeting upon that occasion ? If Mr Burroughs had done thus , he had dealt fairly , but this would not have made good Mr Burroughs his end to breed a beleif in the Reader of the falsenesse of matters related in my book , I had then bin rendred to the Reader only mistaken in a circumstance of a story which would have been accounted no great matter , and the truth of the story for the substance and the severall particulars in it would have weighed down all misprision in the minds of men against me by reason of that circumstance . 2. For that Master Burroughs charges me with page 2 , and 3. that when I have heard vild reproachfull things against such as I owned to be godly , and they living neer me in the City have sent to me to offer to satisfie me if I would confer with them , and cleerly convince me of the falsenesse of such reports , how the men were traduced and I abused in such reports , yet that I should refuse to conferre with them and fall a laying on , &c. I do utterly deny that ever there was any such thing , or any ever sent to me , and cannot imagine any reason in the world Master Burroughs should writ so , and whoever told him any such thing , abused him , and I could by many reasons prove the contrary , if I were giving a formall Answer to Master Burroughs Book . Is it likely that I who have gone on purpose to so many , and do dayly upon all occasions , that have write so many Letters even to remote places to know the certainty of things reported , that imploy others to inquire out the truth where I cannot so well do it my self , that intreat persons who relate things to me , to send the eare witnesses and proofs to me , that reject many reports of things which may be true , and are reported with much confidence because I cānot see a full proof of them , that I should decline to speak with those who send to me to satisfie me in the truth of things , and whom I own to be godly ? No , this is utterly false , a very legend , against my genius and constant course of proceeding in this work , I taking much content , in searching all wayes to be satisfied in the truth of things related me , or in their falsenesse , that so I may not by printing any thing mistaken , give an occasion to the questioning of the truth of those things that are undoubtedly true ; and for further satisfacttou to the Reader there was no such thing , why could not the parties themselves come to speak with me , but must send others , I am easily enough to be spoken with , refusing none ( as all know who come to me ) besides , how did Master Burroughs know any such had been with me to make me such offers , and that I refused ; and what if some reported to him that which was false , might not he be easier abused by a report ( for he speaks not this of his own knowledge , he never came to me , nor was the man ever desired to confer with me about any of these particulars ) then I can be mistaken in this businesse , to whom these offers of conferences and satisfactions should have been made . 3. For that Master Burroughs page 18. taxes me with concerning what I related about his going out of the Kingdom in my Antapologie , that had I been willing to have conferred with him about it as he desired before I printed he should have so fully satisfied me , that I could never have stumbled at this ; I Answer , I never was unwilling to confer with Mastet Burroughs about this or any other thing that he should have desired , and I can say it truely , if he had sent the least boy at any time to me to have desired a conference with me , and appointed me where to meet him I should have waited on him : but for what is here written , I neither know nor remember any such thing that Master Burroughs either by writing , or word of mouth ever desired to have spoken with me about his going out of the Kingdom ; and certainly at that time when I was writing my Antapologie there was no such great distance between Master Burroughs and me , but that he might either have come to me , or spoke to me of it when he met me occasionally , or I should have come to him : none of which ever were moved to me , and I cannot but wonder at Master Burroughs writing of this and divers other passages . 2 As for that hee said hee should have satisfied me upon conference , that he went out of the Kingdom not upon the ground I alledge , but upon another , a call from the Church of Roterdam , which he relates page 19 , 20 , 21 , 22. I must confesse I am unsatisfied in it now , and so I beleive are all rationall men , and let the Reader but aske Master Marshall and Master Calamie who knew the businesse well and Master Burroughs at that time , whether they do not beleive he went over to Roterdam upon a complaint made of some words spoken about the Scottish Warre : and if I should have given the Reader all that I have drawn up by way of Answer to this , it would abundantly clear me , and lay open Master Burroughs weaknesse very much , but I shall only hint this , Suppose the King had in this War prevailed over the Parliament , and taken the City ; and just upon that time Master Peters and Master Wels had gotten away in all haste to New England ; and suppose after this , some man writing of Master Wels and Master Peters departure from England should have expressed this as the ground , the danger they were in upon the Kings taking London ; now if Master Peters and Master Wels should by way of Answer have denied this to be any cause , and have alledged their solemne call to their Churches in New England , being s●nt for again and again , and their purposes of going expressed , yea and that in the Pulpit before ever the King was in a way of taking London , would not all men laugh at such an Answer ? For is not the contrary evident by the experience of their staying in England , now they may stay safely , notwithstanding all their call and being sent for , they stirre not ; and just so it was with Master Burroughs , and I am confident , that had it not been for the danger of those words , he would no more have gone to Roterdam then Master Peters and Master Wels go to New England , and as himselfe tels the story , his putting of giving his resolution of going , defering from time to time , and from place to place to make any conclusion , ●ill the businesse of words grew to a height , declares plainly as much ; besides Master Burroughs at that time was not of the Independent judgement , as appears by his Book put out in the yeare 38. writing , By Jeremiah Burroughs Minister of the Gospel , which was not long before his going over , whereas all his Books he hath put forth since he went to Roterdam , are By Jeremiah Burroughs , without Minister of the Gospel , which to them who know the Controversie is a clear proofe he was in the yeare 38. no Independent , though afterwards in the writing his other Books he was , and therefore declined that Title Minister of the Gospel . And whereas in the body of this Third Part , in two or three severall places I take occasion to relate some things of Master Burroughs , which may by some be ill taken because he cannot answer for himselfe , and may be interpreted a speaking evill of the dead , I desire to let the Reader know , they were both written and printed off long before Master Burroughs sicknesse and death : and indeed no understanding man will once imagine a Booke of above Forty sheets could be made , written out , and printed in a month , especially by one who Preaches often , and hath many irons in the fi●e at the same time , and to put it out of all question besides my own testimony , the Book-seller and Printer can testifie this Third Part hath been above this quarter of a yeare in the Presse a printing . A● for that Pamphlet written against my Second Part , Entituled Gangraena playes Rex , I Answer breifly , Gangraena playes the Parliament , that is , conforms to what the Parliament hath expressed in the foure or five first yeares of their sitting , against the Sectaries ; and I do offer to make good what I have written in Gangraena against the Sects , out of the Declarations , Remonstrances , Ordinances , Covenant , Messages and Transactions of the Parliament with Scotland , and their Instructions to the Assembly upon divers occasions , and could make a better Parallel between the passages in Gangraena and the passages in Declarations , Remonstances , &c. against the Sectaries , then the Author of that Pamphlet hath done , and am likely to do it , though a Postscript is not the proper place for it ; only I say this , would to God there had not beene some men among us , and that in place too , to have so carried things and brought matters to that passe , as to give too great occasion unto many to say , The King was a true Prophet in what he spoke in his Declarations concerning Anabaptists , Brownists , and Sectaries . As for that Pamphlet cald , Lanceters Lance for Edwards Gangraena , I have lately received from two godly Ministers in Suffolk a large relation by way of justification and proofe of what in my Second Part of Gangraena was written of Lanceter , as also some other passages related in those papers concerning Lanceter , one Chidly , and Barrowe , but they containing a whole sheet of paper are too much to put in a Postscript , and must be reserved for the Fourth Part ; and I am of the minde when Lanceter shall come to reade them , he will wish he had beene opening his Pack when he was writing his Pamphlet . As for Drapes his ●illy Pamphlet cald A B●am● in Master Edwards his eye , Master Edwards hath the Beame in his hand and could easily so handle it , as to knock Drapes and Captaine Paul Hobson on the heads and dash out their braines with it ; but I must not be put out of my way of writing more usefull Tractates by every little bauling curr● . As for Gangraena-chrestum writen by Master Pi●nel and Maddocks against some passages in a Letter written by a godly Minister and printed by me in the First Part of Gangraena , the Authors shall receive a full answer from some of the Ministers of those parts , who having been upon the place know all particulars , for proofe of which I have been written unto as followes ; I have lighted upon a Libell of Master Pinnels and Maddocks , which however it cast scorne enough on you , Master Gower , and Master Ford , I know you will scorn , and I shall take care in what is materiall to see it Answered in a Book by it selfe , which if you will let me know when the Third Part of Gangraena is likely to be ready , I would put out before it , that you may the better make use of it . And in another Letter upon my Answer to this , that I thought my Third Part would have come out much sooner then now it doth , I am thus written to ; I am sorry in reference to my selfe that your Third Part comes out so suddenly , I had thought an answer to Pools relation should have preceded it . But however if you have occasion to speak any thing in reference to it , you may bid the Reader expect an Answer from these parts shortly . And you may your selfe take notice how our opposites Pinnel and Maddocks doe equivocate , and deny not the things charged , as in the point of Pinnels strange Doctrine and the Revelation woman . As for Walwins Prediction of Master Edwards Conversion and the Consultation upon Master ▪ Edwards , both from the same hand ( as I judge ) I would have Master Walwyn and his companions know , that Mr. Edwards goes upon surer grounds in what he does against the Sectaries then to be so soone removed : he hath not been so long in the Schoole of Christ , had experience so many yeers of the wayes of God in trialls of many temptations , divers afflictions , conflicts with all sorts of wicked men and Errors both in the Prelates times and now , searchings and shiftings out the truths of God in the Controversies both of the former and present times , as to be taken off from the Doctrines of truth and according to godlinesse , and to be turned unto fables by the foolish weake Pamphlets of the times . If Mr. Walwin and his fellowes have any ●opes in this kind they are much deceived ; For as Luther sometimes writ in an Epistle of his to Spalatinus concerning his writing against the Papists , that he should presume any thing of him praeter Palinodiam & fugam , so may the Sectaries imagine any thing of me rather then a Recantation , and repenting of writing those Books wherein I have discovered the Errors , Heresies , and Blasphemies of the times . As for Mr. Salmarshes Answer in few words to the Second Part of Gangraena , a part of his shadowes flying away , I shall reckon with him for every line in it in that Answer to other Pamphlets of his ; only I desire the Reader for the present to observe these things : First , that Master Gataker in his Reply to him , hath proved him to be a shadow without substance , hath taken off the shadowes and vaile he had cast on many truths of the Gospel , and showed this new light with his dawnings of light to be nothing else but a shadow of death and darknesse , and hath caused this great light to go out in a smoke and snu●●e . Secondly , that he calls one leafe and lesse then a halfe , an Answer to my Second Part of Gangraena consisting almost of thirty sheets , and to another Book call'd An after Reckoning of about ten sheets . Thirdly , in that little he saith ( though he call it an Answer ) he doth not so much as offer to disprove any one particular in the Book , hee saith not one word to disprove or deny the Woman Preacher : which in my Second Part I had made good against his bold deniall of it in a former Pamphlet , but declaimes in generall against me and my Book , railing fearfully , and cursing me . Fourthly , the great hypocrisie and dissimulation of Master Saltmarsh , pretending in all his writings , love , peace , sweetnesse among Christians , and in this Pamphlet where his Answer to the Second Part of Gangraena is inserted , t is call'd Reasons for Vnity , Love , and Peace , and charging me with bitternesse , uncharitablenesse , want of the sweete Spirit of Christ , whereas himselfe hath the bitterest , uncharitablest and most railing censorious passages against me , and a godly reverend Minister he joynes with me , that a man shall hardly ever meet with the like in any Book in a mans life time , applying those words of Christ to the Devill , unto me , the Lord rebuke thee , even the Lord , charging me with sinning aganst the holy Ghost , with being in the gall of bitternesse , and bond of iniquity , telling me of gnawings , flashings , of having a burnt and withered spirit , threatning they will pray me either into repentance , or shame , or judgement ere they have done with me ; and putting the other Minister and me together , he stiles us Pensioners to the g●●at Acouser of the Brethron , bids us fill up the measure of our iniquities if we will needs perish whether he will or no , and saith , all the powers of hell set us on work , with many such like passages ; So that I may justly say to Master Saltmarsh as Paul in Rom. 2. 21 , 22 , 23. Thou therefore that teachest another , Teachest thou not thy selfe ? Thou that teachest a man should not steale , dost thou steale ? Thou that ●aiest a man should not commit adul●ery , dost thou commit adultery ? &c. Or as Christ in Matthew 7. 3 , 4. 5. And why beholdest thou the mot● ▪ that is in thy brothers eye , but considerest not the beame that is in thine owne eye ? or how can●● thou say to thy brother , lot me pull out the mot● out of thine eye , and behold a beame in thine owne eye ? Th 〈…〉 hypocrite , first cast out the beame out of thine owne eye , and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the m●te out of thy brothers eye . Master Saltmarsh charges me with bitternesse , uncharitablenesse , and is ten times worse himselfe , and I challenge Master Saltmarsh and all his party in all the Books that I have written put together , to produce ( if they can ) so many unchristian passages as are vented by him against me in o●e leafe : Where and in what part of my books have I charged Master Saltmarsh with sinning against the holy Ghost , hating the light once known , blaspheming the work of the Spirit ? and so I might instance in the rest , though I beleeve I could give better grounds why Master Saltmarsh should a great deale more probably bee guilty in that kind , then he can upon any pretence of me ( though I professe I do not charge him with that sinne ) but ▪ the charging godly ▪ Presbyterians for writing against Errors and ▪ Heresies , with committing the sinne against the holy Ghost , and despighting the Spirit , and sinning wilfully is the great charity and brotherly love of Sectaries , divers of them having done thus , Master Price charging M. B●ll 〈…〉 ie , Master Goodwin Master Brinne , and M. Saltmarsh , me : But I would have Master Saltmarsh ▪ know , ti 〈…〉 not his bugbar of charging me with the sin against the holy Ghost , and threatning me with flashings , lightnings , and praying against me for contending earnestly for the Faith once delivered unto the Saint● against certaine men crept in , turning the Grace of God into las●iviousnesse , can scare me to make me go out of my way , and I find this branding with the sinne against the holy Ghost of Orthodox men by Sectaries to be no new thing , but very old , used by the Donatists in Saint Austins time , who as Augustine showes in his writings , accused the Orthodox of being guilty of the sinne against the holy Ghost . Fifthly , for his two stories he relates of discourse with me upon two severall times speaking together , they are deceitfully and falsely related , the greatest part concealed , and what is related not justly set downe : I writ them both downe in my Diary , esp●cially the last immediatly after I left Master Saltmarsh , and so can give a just and good account of them , but they are too long to be inserted in a Postscript , and of the first , that being at Master Vicars his house and in his hearing , he hath given the Reader already a good part of it in his Schi●●●atick sifted , little ( I think ) to M. Saltmarshes credit . And now good Reader the next Tractate thou shalt expect from me shall be a Tractate against a Toleration , which I hope by the end of the next moneth , or the beginning of February , may be in thy hands , and nothing by Gods help shall divert me , or re 〈…〉 d that : I am resolved , if twenty Pamphlets should be written against this Third Part , to let them all lie till I have put forth a Treatise against Toleration and pretended liberty of Conscience . And now finally Brethren , pray for me that God would be in a speciall manner with me in the setting forth of that Tractate at this time , and that the word of the Lord may run and be glorified , and ●hat I may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men , and that my service which I have for this Kingdome , may be accepted of the King , Parliament , and all that are in authority , of the City of London , the Ministers of the Kingdome ; and of all Saints . Amen . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A83515-e550 a Paraeus in 2. Galath . v. 9. Hodi● quid fit ? Opinionibus res geritur , imo affectibus . Nulla Argumenta , nullae Apologiae locum inveniunt . b Baldwin Cas . Consci●n . lib. 4. cap. 7. pag. 10. 53. 1055. Falsorum dogmatum Propugnatores nominatim perstringendi sunt , quomodo enim alias ab auditoribus caveri possunt ? c Calvin . Instructio adversus libertines . cap. 4. * The Vision of God by Cardinall cusanus , The third part of the Rule of perfection by a Cappuchian Friar , Another booke written by a Preist . A mesius lib. 5. de Co●sc . c. 14. ☞ ☜ * Cal. Instr . advers . libert . c. 4 Quod autem Quintinus ejusque socius ex Sartoribus Doctores facti atque ita immutati sunt , id in causa ●uit , quod delicate & molliter vivere vellent : nec sibi putarent labores convenire . Propterea cōmodius omni no existimarunt , ut quemadmodum sacerdotes & monachi cantillando , sic ipsigarriendo vitam quaererent . ☞ Erasmus saepe dixit . Deus dedit huic post●emae ae●ati propter morborum magnitudinem acrem medicum . Mel. Adam . vit . luth p. 162. Notes for div A83515-e7660 For proofe of this vide Pamphlet entituled Little-Nonsuch , printed at London very lately , pag. 2. Animadvers . Little Nonsuch , pag , 4. Animadvers . * Danaeus in his Tract . de Haeresibus cap. 4. 3. Among other Errors of the Origenists shows this to he one , that in the interpretation of Scripture they would perpetually Allegorize , so that they left nothing certain in the word of God neither that Parad●se , nor Adam , nor Eve , nor the waters , nor any thing which Moses laies down in the whole Book of Genesis . Whereupon Augustine writ 12 Books de Genesi ad literam against such Allegorists and Corrupters of the Scripture . Little Nonsuch , pag. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , &c. Animadvers . * Vide Ainsworth in Lev. 18. v. 19. ☞ For proof of this , see page 25. of this third Part of Gangr . This Doctrine was Preached at a Funerall sermon in London , & brought to comfort men against that trouble of death , They shall 〈◊〉 and he removed from their friends , and ●e strangers to the affairs b●low : This point was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b● way of Answer ▪ i 〈…〉 upon and amplified : I and divers other Minister● were ●are witnesses , and spake together of the Sermon when it was done . I have been told it also from good hands , ●hat an Independent Minister of great note , when he was dying 〈◊〉 to his wife and friends to have a care how they used his body when it was dead , for 〈◊〉 should know what they did to him . Animadvers . Animadvers . Animad vers . * This Error & the other three last mentioned were preached last Sept. 17 at a Funeral Sermon , by an Independent of great note , I , & many other Ministers were ●are witnesses of these doctrines . * Proof Webs Pamph. writtē against my first Part of Gangr . page 6. * Respond●o Baptismum Johannis discrepasse à Baptismo Christs , qua ▪ tenus Christus Baptizat interius baptism● spiritus . Et hac in parte diff●rt Baptismus Christi ab omnibus Minist●orum Sacrorum baptismis : nihil autem discrepasse à baptisme ceremoniali à Christo instituto , nisiration● tem●oris , & significationis cl●ritate , qu● ante Chriti manifestationem ta●ta non suit , quanta post cam ▪ Non s●●us , ac Apostolorum baptismus ante mortem Christi divers●● suit à baptismo ▪ ab ipsis post mortem ejus administrato . pag. 25. 26 27. * Proof of the 10. and 11. Errors pag. 36 , 37. of this Third Part. * Proof p. 80. of this Third part . Proof of the 13 , 14 , pag. 80. of this Third part . Proof of the 15. pag. 21. Proof of 16. pag. 80. 45. Vide Proofe of these pag. 20. of this Third part . * Vid. Proof of this pag. 107. * For proof see a Book entituled Divine Light manifesting the love of God unto the whole world , with the true Church , printed in the year 1646. * Divine Light mani●esting the love of God , pag. 25. The maine scope of that Pamphlet cald Divine Light manifesting the love of God unto the whole world , is to plead for a generall salvation of all men and devills , and that Christ hath paid the Price of his bloud for them all . Divine Light , pag. 19. Divine Light , pag. 11 , 12 , 13. Divine Light , pag. 11 , 13 , 14 , 23. The proofe of this is in p. 36. of this Third part of Gangraena . * Vid Pareum in hunc locum Nem● nescit ut post consummationem saeculi fiat temporis abolitio , sequatur aeternitas . * Divine Light manifesting the love of God unto the whole world , page 5. Vide Divine Light Manifesting the love of God. * Proof p. 22. of this Third Part. * Proofe . A godly Minister of this City told me he heard an Independent Minister maintain this Opinion before company . Animadvers . * Proof of this Third Part of his Gangaena page 107. * Proof , vide p. 84. of this Third Part. a Proof p. 36. of this Third part . b I have been told from good hands , of severall Anabaptists brought before the Magistrate who have refused to take an oath , and of others who would speak the truth as in the presence of Christ , but not sweare . c Proof p. 147. of this Third part of Gangraena . d Proof , Pamphlet entituled Certain Queres 1645. by Thomas C●lyer , and in Third part of Gang. p. 28. e Vid. Pamph. entit . An alarum to the H. of Lords . p. 1. f Proof pamphlet Overtons defiance to the H. of Lords , p. 6 Proof , vide pag 111 , 112 , of this Third part of Gangraena . Proof , vide Master Burtons Conformities deformity , the whole scope of the Book being to maintain this , among other pages vide pag. 7 , 8 , 13 , 14 , 15. and for Animadversions on this the Reader shall find in the latter part of this Book . Pamphlet entituled , A Remonstrance of many thousand Citizens and other Free-born people of Engl. to their own House of Commons , p. 12 , 13. * Many Ministers , M. Spurstowe , M. Cardel , M. Wills , my self with others heard this Exposition given in the presence of a thousand people at least . * For proof Vide pag. 23. 24. of this Third Part of Gangraena . Animadvers . ☞ ☜ * Vid. Overtons petition to the High and Mighty States the Knights & Burgesses in Parliament . Assembled . ☞ * Last Reports of the English Wars , p. T. Ames . lib. 5. de Conscient . c. 25. De mutua obligatione inter Magistratus , et subditos . A Remonstr . to the House of Commons . page 19 , 20. * Proof Vide page 35. of this Third part of Gangr . * For proof Vide M Bellam●es justification of the City Remonstrance , p. 11. * Proof , p. 114. of this Th●rd Part of Gangr . * Proof , p. 107 of this Third part of Gangr . Vide Doct. Bastwicks utter rou●ing of the Army of the Independents : Epist . to the Reader . ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ * pag. 51. 52. Certain Queres . * pag. 18. 19. page 22. 25. page 27. page 27. ☞ page 28. page 29. ☞ Animadvers . ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☜ * Bristoll . ☜ ☜ A Seeker . ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ It hath been usuall for men given to fafour heresie● & Schismes , to speak evill of the zealous Ministers who oppose them ; so Constan . the Emperor often call'd Athanasius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 impi●m , item 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 s●elestum Theod. lib. 2. cap ▪ 16. * A fit man to be a Deacon of an Independent Church . ☜ ☞ ☜ ☜ Animadver . ☞ ☜ ☜ Second part of Gangrana , 131 Blackwood Apostolicall Baptisme , or a Rejoynder to M. Blake , p. 81. 82. I am of opinion that Heaven received few such souls ●s this Sectarie , and Christ saith , non retipio tales animas . * S●e Mr Walwins P●edict . of Master Edwards conversion , Whisper in M. Edwards eare &c. * Bushers Book of the old Edition page 19. New Edition , page 23. ☞ ☜ Animadvers . * This Pamphlet is generally spoken and beleeved by all to be● his , and many of his Church have openly said so to . 2 John 10. 11. ☜ Minors no Senators . A Discovery of New lights . This was upon occasion of the City Remonstrance . * It was in some of the Newes Books of that week . * Master Burroughs the morning starr , preaching about seven a cloke in the morning , and Mr Green●al at three of the clock in the afternoone . ☞ ☜ ☞ He speaks of the surrender of Oxford . Animadvers . * Quaest non● ▪ Quinam habent p●testatem excommunica●di ? Resp . Classium & Synodum est , quando di●●icul●as aliquae subest , commu 〈…〉 consi●io declarare , & decernere , quinam debean● excommunicari . * Ecclesiae ta 〈…〉 en particulares , ●t car●m communio postulat , natur● lumen , & aequitas regularum , & exemplorum Scripturae docent , possunt 〈…〉 ac saepissime etiam debent confoederationem a●t consoci●tio●em mutuam inter se ini●e in Classibus & Synodis ut communi consensu & subsid●o mutuo utantur quantum commode ●ieri potest , in iis praesertim , quae sunt major is momenti● Ames . lib. 4● de Conscient . cap. 29. quaesh oct● . * Mr. Peters message from Sir Thomas Fair●ax . ☜ * This is fully proved in the first sheet of this Gangraena , and in some sheets following this . * Vid. A Letter e●tit . Englands lamentable slavery . The Copy of a Letter from Lic v●en . Col. Lilburne to a Friend . A Pamphlet call'd , A Question and an Answer . Lil 〈…〉 es 〈◊〉 ●●d Tru●h j●s 〈…〉 . Englands B●rth-right . ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ Vide Mr Pryns Animadvers . on Mr Goodwins Theomach . pag. 22. Master Pryns Truth Triumphing over falshood , pag. 106. 107. 108. * City Remonstrance Remonstrated . pag. 23 , 24 , 25 , 26. Page 7. City Remonstrance Remonstrated . Animadvers . Animadvers . * The inclosed is the first Letter in this Third Part of Gangraena , pag. 21. a copy of which was given me from the Citizen in whose Letter it was inclosed , and not from the Gentleman to whom it was written . ☜ * The Parliament may by this see what prejudice some of these Independent weekly Pamphleters doe them , by speaking of their affaires whilest under debate , and before finished , and how by their expressions in their Newes Books , the reformed Churches abroad and many at home come to be greatly offended with the Parliaments proceedings , as if they denyed the Three Persons in the Trinity , whereas this debate was not upon the Assemblies presenting the Articles of Religion , but upon an Ordinance to punish wi●h death those who should deny the Terms expressed in the Ordinance , where among others Person was ; but for the thing whatsoever was said of the word Person , it was Voted at that time . ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ * Epist . Zuing. & Oecolampad . lib. z. ☞ ☜ * Mr Rurr . 〈…〉 enicon . pag. 34. * Mr Burroug . 〈…〉 enicon . pag. 36. 37. ☜ ☜ Animadvers . * Remonstrance of many thousand Citizens , and other Free-born people of England to their owne House of Commons . An Alarum to the House of Lords . a Vide A Pamphlet ontit . A Parable , p. 4. 12. 16 as also A Prediction of Master Edwards Conversion . ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ * A help to the right understanding of a Discourse concerning Independencie , page 2 , 3. * A Pamphlet so stiled by the Sectaries . ☜ ☞ * Not but that the Commonsa●e a pa●t of the High Court of Parli . as well as the Lords , and assembled in the High Court of of Parlia . too , both making one high court of Parliament , only I mention this priviledge of a Court of Record and power of judiciall triall by oath against the Sectaries who so underv●l●e the power of the Lords in their Pamphlets , and ordinary discourses . ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ * An unhappy Game at Scotch and English . * Another word to the wise . ☞ ☜ * A Pamphlet entituled A Letter of Advice unto the Ministers assembled at Westminster . * Divine light manifesting Gods love . page 9. 15. * Lilburns Anatomy of the injustice of the House of Lords Londons liberty in chains discovered . ☜ a Vide A little book call'd Independents rasing their own foundation . b Vide Vindication of a printed Paper intitu●ed an Ordinance for the preventing the growth of Heresies . ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ * Mr. Bifeild and divers other Chaplains then in the Earl of Essex his Army , are ready to testifie and prove this . ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ Notes for div A83515-e51350 ☞ * Danaeus in August . de haeresibus . c. 70. * Span●emii Diatribe Historica de Origin : Progress . Sectis & nom . Anabapt . pag. 4. 5. Hinc . & publicarum concionum & privatorum congressuum themata ordinaria erant , detestandum esse peccatum , carnem macerandum , ex●ltandum spiritum , Charitatis officia exercenda , crucem Domini feren dum , je juniis vacandum , &c. * Danae . Prolegom . cap. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vero morum & omnis disciplinae contemptus est etiam haereseon per●etua comes . Qui enim doctrinam De●spernit , idem fac●lè & discipl 〈…〉 m. ☞ ☜ * 2 Pet. 2. 12. Jude . * Thomas Muntzer boasted of himselfe and his Doctrine as spirituall , but stiled Luther as carnall , earthly , and that had published only a carnal Gospel , savouring nothing but the flesh , and 〈◊〉 as worse then the Pope . vid. Span●e 〈…〉 Diatri● . Hist . p. 5. Melch. Adam . vit . Luther . p. 128. Liber adversus Lutherum à Munccro scriptus , dedicatus est Christo principi illustrissimo , Lutherum flagellat , quod enthusiastic● Spiritu carcat & nihil nisi carnalia sapiat . So Mr. Dell in his Sermon called Right Reformation , in the Epistle Dedicatory and the Reply to M. Love , vapours of himself and his Doctrine as spirituall , in the power of the Spirit , &c. but makes t●e Assembly , Mr. Love , and all Presbyterians carnall , worldly , worse thē Papists & Prelates * One of the main things against the Bishops in the Ministers Remonstrance presented to the House of Commons in the beginning of the Parliament was that . ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ * Calvin . in 2 Tim. 3. 1 , 2. Notandum in quo asperitatē vel duritiem temporum constituat , no● in bello scilicet , nec fame , nec ●orbis , nec aliis calamitatibus , vel incommodis quae corpor● accidunt , sed in malis & pravis hominum moribus . Vide ibid. plura . * Cornewells vindication of 〈…〉 ng Iesus his Commission , Conf●ssion of Faith of the Anabaptists . * A Protestation attested before Anthony Luther Iustice of Peace . ☜ Socrates Scholastic . lib. 2. c. 21. 22. 23. relates at large the Arrians , and Sebastianus a Manichee fearfull persecutions a●d unheard of cruelties against the Orthodox Bishops and people : The violence truly was no lesse then that of old , practised towards the Christians , when they were compelled and drawn to sacrifice unto Idols . For many endured sundry kinds of torment , men racking and dismembring of their joynts , confiscating of their substance : Some bereaved of their native soile , other so 〈…〉 e departed this life under the hands of the tormentor ; some dyed in banishment , and never saw their Country again , They banished divers Bishops , and being bereaved of their native soile they handled so roughly , that some of them dyed by the way , some other in exile never returning again . They put to death above 30. Bishops . They followed the steps of wicked Ahab , imploying all their care and industry for the rooting out of the truth from of the face of the earth . Danaeus in August . de Haeresib . cap. 69. showes , when the Donatists were increased in number , and head infected all Affrica , so that many whole Cities fell to that way , they then grew insolent and offered violence to the Orthodox till Dulcitius a Tribune of Souldiers being sent against them by Honorius the Emperor restrained their violence and injuries against the Christians . Thomas Muntzer preached that all things should be in common according to the example of the Primitive Church ▪ and those of the richer sort who would not be perswaded by Arguments , he by force and fear of worse compelled them thereunto : At Munster community of all goods is commanded by the Anabaptists John of Leyden , Knipperdolling , &c. upon paine of death : John of Leyden rageth against those that dissented , and by the slaughter of a great many strengthens his Tyranny ; so that upon the pleasure of this man depended not only the estates , but even the lives of every one of the Citizens . Whosoever durst but speak a word in jest of the Prophets , was accused of Treason , and made a sacrifice to the lu●●s of those miscreants ; and all divine and humane right trodden under foot . Spanh . Diatr . Histori . Hence 't is an observation of Vedelius in his Arcan . Armin. par . 4. lib. 2. cap. 8. that the disposition of Hereticks is such , that 't is impossible for them when they have got strength , to moderate themselves from persecuting of the Orthodox . ☜ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☞ * V●d●l . Arcan . Armin. Par. 4. page 260. Notes for div A83515-e53920 ☜ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☞ ☜