A remonstrance of the most gratious King Iames I. King of Great Britaine, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, &c. For the right of kings, and the independance of their crownes. Against an oration of the most illustrious Card. of Perron, pronounced in the chamber of the third estate. Ian. 15. 1615. Translated out of his Maiesties French copie. Declaration du serenissime Roy Jaques I. Roy de la Grand' Bretaigne France et Irlande, defenseur de la foy. English James I, King of England, 1566-1625. 1616 Approx. 357 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 153 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2007-01 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A04250 STC 14369 ESTC S107609 99843307 99843307 8025 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A04250) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 8025) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 840:06) A remonstrance of the most gratious King Iames I. King of Great Britaine, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, &c. For the right of kings, and the independance of their crownes. Against an oration of the most illustrious Card. of Perron, pronounced in the chamber of the third estate. Ian. 15. 1615. Translated out of his Maiesties French copie. Declaration du serenissime Roy Jaques I. Roy de la Grand' Bretaigne France et Irlande, defenseur de la foy. English James I, King of England, 1566-1625. Betts, Richard, 1552-1619. [26], 281, [1] p. Printed by Cantrell Legge, printer to the Vniuersitie of Cambridge, [Cambridge] : 1616. A translation by Richard Betts of: Declaration du serenissime Roy Jaques I. Roy de la Grand' Bretaigne France et Irlande, defenseur de la foy. A reply to: Du Perron, Jacques Davy. Harangue faicte de la part de la chambre ecclesiastique, en celle du tiers estat, sur l'article de serment. The first leaf is blank except for a fleuron. Running title reads: A defence of the right of kings. Reproduction of the original in the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. -- Harangue faicte de la part de la chambre ecclesiastique, en celle du tiers estat, sur l'article de serment -- Controversial literature. Prerogative, Royal -- Early works to 1800. Church and state -- England -- Early works to 1800. 2006-04 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2006-04 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-05 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2006-05 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A REMONSTRANCE OF THE MOST GRATIOVS KING IAMES I. KING OF GREAT BRITTAINE , FRANCE , and IRELAND , Defender of the Faith , &c. FOR THE RIGHT OF KINGS , AND THE independance of their Crownes . AGAINST AN ORATION OF the most Illustrious Card. of PERRON , pronounced in the Chamber of the third Estate . Ian. 15. 1615. Translated out of his Maiesties French Copie . PRINTED BY CANTRELL LEGGE , Printer to the Vniuersitie of Cambridge . 1616. THE PREFACE . I Haue no humour to play the Curious in a forraine Common-wealth , or , vnrequested , to carrie any hand in my neighbours affaires . It hath more congruitie with Royall dignity , wherof God hath giuen me the honour , to prescribe Lawes at home for my Subiects , rather then to furnish forraine Kingdoms and people with counsels . Howbeit , my late entire affection to K. Henrie IV. of happy memorie , my most honoured brother , and my exceeding sorrow for the most detestable parricide acted vpon the sacred person of a King , so complete in all heroicall and Princely vertues ; as also the remembrance of my owne dangers , incurred by the practise of conspiracies flowing from the same source , hath wrought me to sympathize with my friends in their grieuous occurrents : no doubt so much more daungerous , as they are lesse apprehended and felt of Kings themselues , euen when the danger hangeth ouer their owne heads . Vpon whome , in case the power and vertue of my aduertisments be not able effectually to worke , at least many millions of children and people yet vnborne , shall beare me witnes , that in these daungers of the highest nature and straine , I haue not bin defectiue : and that neither the subuersions of States , nor the murthers of Kings , which may vnhappily betide hereafter , shal haue so free passage in the world for want of timely aduertisment before . For touching my particular , my rest is vp , that one of the maynes for which God hath advanced me vpon the loftie stage of the supreme Throne , is , that my words vttered from so eminent a place for Gods honour most shamefully traduced and vilified in his owne Deputies and Lieutenants , might with greater facilitie be conceiued . Now touching France ; faire was the hope which I conceiued of the States assembled in Parliament at Paris . That calling to minde the murthers of their Noble Kings , and the warres of the League which followed the Popes fulminations , as when a great storme of haile powreth down after a thunder-cracke , and a world of writings addressed to iustifie the parricides & the dethronings of Kings , would haue ioyned heads , hearts , and hands together , to hammer out some apt and wholsome remedie against so many fearefull attempts and practises . To my hope was added no little ioy , when I was giuen to vnderstand the third Estate had preferred an Article or Bill , the tenor and substance whereof was concerning the meanes whereby the people might be vnwitched of this pernicious opinion ; That Popes may tosse the French King his Throne like a tennis ball , and that killing of Kings is an act meritorious to the purchase of the crowne of Martyrdome . But in fine , the proiect was encountred with successe cleane contrary to expectation . For this Article of the third Estate , like a sigh of libertie breathing her last , serued only so much the more to inthrall the Crowne , and to make the bondage more grieuous and sensible then before . Euen as those medicines which worke no ease to the patient , doe leaue the disease in much worse tearmes : so this remedie inuented and tendred by the third Estate , did onely exasperate the present maladie of the State : for so much as the operation and vertue of the wholesome remedie was ouermatched with peccant humours , then stirred by the force of thwarting and crossing opposition . Yea much better had it beene , the matter had not beene stirred at all , then after it was once on foote and in motion , to giue the Truth leaue to lie gasping and sprawling vnder the violence of a forraine faction . For the opinion by which the Crownes of Kings are made subiect vnto the Popes will and power , was then avowed in a most Honourable Assemblie by the averment of a Prelate in great authoritie , and of no lesse learning . He did not plead the cause as a priuate person , but as one by representation that stood for the whole bodie of the Clergie . Was there applauded , and seconded with approbation of the Nobilitie . No resolution taken to the contrarie , or in barre to his plea. After praises and thankes from the Pope , followed the printing of his eloquent harangue or Oration , made in full Parliament : a set discourse , maintaining Kings to be deposeable by the Pope , if he speake the word . The saide Oration was not onely printed with the Kings priuiledge , but was likewise addressed to me by the author and Orator himselfe ; who presupposed the reading thereof would forsooth driue me to say , Lord Cardinall , in this high subiect your Honour hath satisfied me to the full . All this poysed in the ballance of equall iudgement , why may not I truly and freely affirme , the said Estates assembled in Parliament haue set Royall Maiestie vpon a doubtfull chance , or left it resting vpon vncertain tearmes : and that now , if the doctrine there maintained by the Clergie should beare any pawme , it may lawfully be doubted , who is King in France ? For I make no question , he is but a titular King that raigneth onely at an others discretion , and whose Princely head the Pope hath power to bare of his Regall Crowne . In temporall matters , how can one be Soveraigne , that may be fleeced of all his temporalties by any superiour power ? But let men at a neere sight marke the pith and marrowe of the Article proposed by the third Estate , and they shall soone perceiue the skilfull Architects thereof aymed onely to make their King a true and reall King , to be recognised for Soueraigne within his own Realme , and that killing their King might no longer passe the muster of works acceptable to God. But by the vehement instance and strong current of the Clergie and Nobles , this was borne down as a pernicious Article , as a cause of schisme , as a gate which openeth to all sorts of heresies : yea there it was maintained tooth and nayle , that in case the doctrine of this Article might go for currant doctrine , it must follow , that for many ages past in sequence , the Church hath bin the kingdome of Antechrist , and the synagogue of Satan . The Pope vpon so good issue of the cause , had reason , I trow , to addresse his letters of triumph vnto the Nobilitie and Clergie , who had so farre approoued themselues faithfull to his Holines ; and to vaunt withall , that he had nipped Christian Kings in the Crowne , that he had giuen them checke with mate , through the magnanimous resolution of this couragious Nobilitie , by whose braue making head the third Estate had bin so valiantly forced to giue ground . In a scornefull reproach he qualified the Deputies of the third Estate , nebulones ex foece plebis , a sort or a number of knaues , the very dregges of the base vulgar , a packe of people presuming to personate well affected Subiects and men of deepe vnderstanding , and to read their masters a learned lecture . Now it is no wonder , that , in so good an office and loyall carriage towards their King , the third Estate hath outgone the Clergie . For the Clergie denie themselues to haue any ranke among the Subiects of the King : they stand for a Soueraigne out of the kingdome , to whome as to the Lord Paramount they owe suit and seruice : they are bound to aduance that Monarchie , to the bodie whereof they properly appertaine as parts or members , as elswhere I haue written more at large . But for the Nobilitie , the Kings right arme , to prostitute and set as it were to sale the dignitie of their King , as if the arme should giue a thrust vnto the head ; I say for the Nobilitie to hold and maintaine euen in Parliament , their King is liable to deposition by any forraine power or Potentate , may it not passe among the strangest miracles and rarest wonders of the world ? For that once granted , this consequence is good and necessarie ; That in case the King , once lawfully deposed , shal stand vpon the defensiue and hold out for his right , he may then lawfully be murthered . Let me then here freely professe my opinion , and this it is : That now the French Nobilitie may seeme to haue some reason to disrobe themselues of their titles , and to transferre them by resignation vnto the third Estate . For that bodie of the third Estate alone hath carried a right noble heart : in as much as they could neither be tickled with promises , nor terrified by threatnings , from resolute standing to those fundamentall points & reasons of State , which most concerne the honor of their King , and the securitie of his person . Of all the Clergie , the man that hath most abandoned , or set his owne honour to sale , the man to whome France is least obliged , is the Lord Cardinall of Perron : a man otherwise inferiour to few in matter of learning , and in the grace of a sweete style . This man in two seuerall Orations , whereof the one was pronounced before the Nobilitie , the other had audience before the third Estate , hath set his best wits on worke , to draw that doctrine into all hatred and infamie , which teacheth Kings to be indeposeable by the Pope . To this purpose he tearmes the same doctrine , a breeder of schismes , a gate that openeth to make way , and to giue entrance vnto all heresies ; in briefe , a doctrine to be held in so high a degree of detestation , that rather then he and his fellow-Bishops will yeild to the signing thereof , they will be contented like Martyrs to burne at a stake . At which resolution , or obstinacie rather in his opinion , I am in a manner amased , more then I can be mooued for the like brauado in many other : for as much as he was many yeares together , a follower of the late King , euen when the King followed a contrarie Religion , and was deposed by the Pope : as also because not long before , in a certaine Assemblie holden at the Iacobins in Paris , he withstood the Popes Nuntio to his face , when the said Nuntio laboured to make this doctrin , touching the Popes temporall Soueraigntie , passe for an Article of faith . But in both Orations , he singeth a contrarie song , and from his owne mouth passeth sentence of condemnation against his former course and profession . I suppose , not without solide iudgement : as one that herein hath well accommodated himselfe to the times . For as in the raigne of the late King , he durst not offer to broach this doctrine ( such was his fore-wit : ) so now he is bold to proclaime and publish it in Parliament vnder the raigne of the said Kings sonne : whose tender yeares and late succession to the Crowne , do make him lie the more open to iniuries , and the more facill to bee circumuented . Such is nowe his after wisedome . Of these two Orations , that made in presence of the Nobility he hath , for feare of incurring the Popes displeasure , cautelously suppressed . For therein hee hath beene somewhat prodigall in affirming this doctrine , maintained by the Clergie , to be but problematicall ; and in taking vpon him to auouch , that Catholikes of my Kingdome are bound to yeeld me the honour of obedience . Wheras on the other side he is not ignorant , how this doctrine of deposing Princes and Kings the Pope holdeth for meerely necessarie , and approoueth not by any meanes allegiance to be performed vnto me by the Catholikes of my Kingdome . Yea if credit may be giuen vnto the abridgement of his other Oration published , wherein he parallels the Popes power in receiuing honours in the name of the Church , with the power of the Venetian Duke in receiuing honours in the name of that most renowned Republike ; no meruaile that when this Oration was dispatched to the presse , hee commaunded the same to be gelded of this clause and other like , for feare of giuing his Holinesse any offensiue distast . His pleasure therefore was and content withall , that his Oration imparted to the third Estate , should bee put in print , and of his courtesie hee vouchsafed to addresse vnto mee a copy of the same . Which after I had perused , I forthwith well perceiued , what and how great discrepance there is betweene one man that perorateth from the ingenuous and sincere disposition of a sound heart , and an other that flaunteth in flourishing speech with inward checkes of his owne conscience . For euery where he contradicts himselfe , and seemes to bee afraid least men should picke out his right meaning . First , he graunts this Question is not hitherto decided by the holy Scriptures , or by the Decrees of the auncient Church , or by the analogie of other Ecclesiasticall proceedings : and neuerthelesse he confidently doth affirme , that whosoeuer maintaine this doctrine to be wicked and abhominable , that Popes haue no power to put Kings by their supreame Thrones , they teach men to beleeue , there hath not beene any Church for many ages past , and that indeede the Church is the very Synagogue of Antechrist . Secondly , hee exhorts his hearers to hold this doctrine at least for problematicall , and not necessarie : and yet herein he calls them to all humble submission vnto the iudgement of the Pope and Clergie , by whome the cause hath beene alreadie put out of all question , as out of all hunger and cold . Thirdly , he doth auerre , in case this Article be authorized , it makes the Pope in good consequence to bee the Antechrist : and yet he graunts that many of the French are tolerated by the Pope to dissent in this point from his Holinesse ; prouided , their doctrine be not proposed as necessarie , and materiall to faith . As if the Pope in any sort gaue toleration to hold any doctrine contrarie to his owne , and most of all that doctrine which by consequence inferres himselfe to be the Antechrist . Fourthly , he protesteth forwardnesse to vndergoe the flames of Martyrdome , rather then to signe this doctrine , which teacheth Kings Crowns to sit faster on their heads , then to be stirred by any Papal power whatsoeuer : and yet saith withall , the Pope winketh at the French , by his toleration to hold this dogmatical point for problematicall . And by this meanes , the Martyrdome that he affecteth in this cause , will prooue but a problematicall Martyrdome , whereof question might growe very well , whether it were to be mustered with grieuous crimes , or with phreneticall passions of the braine , or with deserued punishments . Fiftly , hee denounceth Anathema , dischargeth maledictions like haile-shot , against parricides of Kings : and yet elsewhere he layes himselfe open to speake of Kings onely so long as they stand Kings . But who doth not know that a King deposed is no longer King ? And so that limme of Satan , which murthered Henrie III. then vn-king'd by the Pope , did not stabbe a King to death . Sixtly , he doth not allowe a King to be made away by murder : and yet hee thinkes it not much out of the way , to take away all meanes whereby hee might be able to stand in defence of his life . Seuenthly , he abhorreth killing of Kings by apposted throat-cutting , for feare least bodie and soule should perish in the same instant : and yet he doth not mislike their killing in a pitcht field , and to haue them slaughtered in a set battaile . For he presupposeth , no doubt out of his charitable mind , that by this meanes the soule of a poore King so dispatched out of the way shall instantly flie vp to heauen . Eightly , hee saith a King deposed retaineth still a certaine internall habitude and politike impression , by vertue and efficacie whereof hee may , being once reformed and become a new man , be restored to the lawfull vse and practise of Regality . Whereby hee would beare vs in hand , that when a forraine Prince hath inuaded and rauenously seised the Kingdome into his hands , he will not onely take pitty of his predecessor to saue his life , but will also prooue so kind-hearted , vpon sight of his repentance , to restore his kingdome without fraude or guile . Ninthly , he saith euery where in his Discourse , that he dealeth not in the cause , otherwise then as a problematicall discourser , and without any resolution one way or other : and yet with might and maine he contends for the opinion , that leaues the States and Crownes of Kings controulable by the Pope : refutes obiections , propounds the authoritie of Popes and Councils , by name the Lateran Councill vnder Innocent III. as also the consent of the Church . And to crosse the Churches iudgment , is , in his opinion to bring in schisme , and to leaue the world without a Church for many hundred yeares together : which ( to my vnderstanding ) is to speake with resolution , and without all hesitation . Tenthly , he acknowledgeth none other cause of sufficient validitie for the deposing of a King , besides heresie , apostasie , and infidelitie : neuertheles that Popes haue power to displace Kings for heresie and apostasie , he prooueth by examples of Kings whom the Pope hath curbed with deposition , not for heresie , but for matrimoniall causes , for ciuill pretences , and for lacke of capacitie . Eleuenthly , he alledgeth euerie where passages , as well of holy Scripture as of the Fathers and moderne histories ; but so impertinent , and with so little truth , as hereafter we shall cause to appeare , that for a man of his deepe learning and knowledge , it seemeth not possible so to speake out of his iudgement . Lastly , whereas all this hath beene hudled and heaped together into one masse , to currie with the Pope : yet he suffereth diuerse points to fall from his lips , which may well distast his Holinesse in the highest degree . As by name , where he prefers the authoritie of the Councill before that of the Pope , and makes his iudgement inferiour to the iudgement of the French ; as in fit place hereafter shall be shewed . Againe , where he representeth to his hearers the decrees of Popes and Councils alreadie passed concerning this noble subiect : and yet affirmes that he doth not debate the question , but as a Questionist , and without resolution . As if a Cardinall should be afraid to be positiue , and to speake in peremptory straines , after Popes and Councils haue once decided the Question . Or as if a man should perorate vpon hazard , in a cause for the honour whereof he would make no difficulty to suffer Martyrdome . Adde hereunto , that his Lordshippe hath alwaies taken the contrary part heretofore , and this totall must needs arise , that before the third Estate , his lippes looked one way , and his conscience another . All these points , by the discourse which is to followe , and by the ripping vp of his Oration ( which by Gods assistance J will vndertake ) tending to the reproach of Kings , and the subuersion of Kingdomes , I confidently speake it , shall be made manifest . Yet doe I not conceiue it can any way make for my honour , to enter the lists against a Cardinall . For J am not ignorant how far a Cardinals Hat , commeth vnder the Crowne & Scepter of a King. For wel I wot vnto what sublimity the Scripture hath exalted Kings , when it styles them Gods : Whereas the dignitie of a Cardinall is but a late vpstart inuention of man ; as I haue elswhere prooued . But I haue imbarqued my selfe in this action , mooued thereunto ; first by the common interest of Kings in the cause it selfe : Then by the L. Cardinal , who speaketh not in this Oration as a priuate person , but as one representing the body of the Clergie and Nobilitie , by whom the cause hath beene wonne , and the garland borne away from the third Estate . Againe , by mine owne particular : because he is pleased to take me vp for a sower of dissention , and a persecutor , vnder whom the Church is hardly able to fetch her breath ; yea , for one by whome the Catholikes of my Kingdome are compelled to endure all sorts of punishment : and withall he tearmes this Article of the third Estate , a monster with a fishes tayle that came swimming out of England . Last of all , by the present state of France ; because Fraunce beeing nowe reduced to so miserable tearmes , that it is nowe become a crime for a Frenchman to stand for his King ; it is a necessary duty of her neighbours to speake in her cause , and to make triall whether they can put life into the truth now dying , and readie to bee buried by the power of violence , that it may resound and ring againe from remote regions . I haue no purpose once to touch many prettie toyes which the ridges of his whole booke are sowed withall . Such are his allegations of Pericles , Agesilaus , Aristotle , Minos , the Druides , the French Ladies , Hannibal , Pindarus , and Poeticall fables . All resembling the red and blew flowers that pester the corne when it standeth in the fields , where they are more noysome to the growing croppe , then beautifull to the beholding eye . Such pettie matters , nothing at all beseemed the dignity of the Assembly , and of the maine subiect , or of the Orator himselfe . For it was no Decorum to enter the Stage with a Pericles in his mouth , but with the sacred Name of God : nor should he haue marshalled the passage of a Royal Poet , after the example of an heathen Oratour . Neither will I giue any touch to his conceit of the Romane conquests , which the L. Cardinall bestoweth in the list of Gods graces and temporall blessings , as a recompence of their zeale to the seruice and worship of Idols . As if God were a recompencer of wickednes , or as if the forcible eiecting of tenants out of their frames and other possessions , might bee reckoned among the blessings of God. Nor to that of the Milesian Virgins , dragged starre-naked after they were dead ; which the L. Cardinall drawes into his discourse for an example of the eternall torments denounced by the Lawes Ecclesiasticall , to be inflicted after this life . Nor to his exposition of the word Problematicall : where he giueth to vnderstand that by Problematicall , he meaneth such things as are of no necessitie to matter of faith ; and in case men shall beleeue the contradictorie of the said points , they are not bound for such beleefe , to vndergoe the solemne curse of the Church , and the losse of communion . Whereas Aristotle , of whom all Schooles haue borrowed their tearmes , hath taught vs that euery proposition is called a Probleme , when it is propounded in a formall doubt , though in it proper nature it containes a necessary truth , concerning the matter thereof . As for example , to say in forme of question , Whether is there but one God ? or , Whether is man a creature indued with reason ? By which examples it is plaine , that propositions in problematically forme , doe not forgoe the necessitie of their nature ; and that many times the contradictorie binds the beleeuers therof to Anathema and losse of communion . There is a confused heape or bundle of otherlike toyes , which my purpose is to passe ouer in silence , that I may now come to cast anchor , as it were in the very bottome and substance of the cause . HONI SOIT QVI MAL Y PENSE A REMONSTRANCE OF THE MOST GRATIOVS King of Great BRITTAINE , FRANCE , and IRELAND , Defender of the Faith , &c. FOR THE RIGHT OF KINGS , AND the independencie of their Crownes : AGAINST AN ORATION OF the most Illustrious Cardinall of PERRON , pronounced in the Chamber of the third Estate . The 15. of Ianuar. 1615. THE L. Cardinall euen in the first passage of his Oration , hath laid a firme foundation , That Ecclesiastics in France are more deepely obliged to the King , then the Nobilitie , and third Estate . His reason : Because the Clergie do sweetly enioy their dignities and promotions , with all their infinite wealth , of the Kings meere grace , without all danger , and with faire immunities ; whereas the other two Orders hold their offices by a chargeable and burdensome title or tenure , euen to the great expence of their blood , & of their substance . But see now , how loose and weake a frame he hath erected and pinned together , vpon his firme and solide foundation : Ergo , the third Estate is to lay all care to prouide remedies against apposted cut-throats , vpon the Clergy : & the said remedies ( as he boldly affirms ) must be deriued from the laws of conscience , which may carry an effectuall acting or operatiue efficacie vpon the soule , & nor from ciuil or temporall punishments . Now this consequence limpeth like a lame creple after the premises . For it is no vsuall & common matter , to see men that are deepest in obligation , performe their duties and couenants with most fidelity . Againe , were it graunted the Clergie had wel hitherto demonstrated their carefull watching ouer the life and honour of their Prince ; yet is it not for spirituall punishments thundred by Ecclesiastics , to bind the hands of the ciuill Magistrate , nor to stop the current of temporall punishments : which ordinarily doe carrie a greater force and vertue to the bridling of the wicked , then the apprehension of Gods iudgement . The third Estate therefore , by whom all the Officers of France are properly represented , as to whome the administration of iustice and protection of the Kings rights and Honour doth appertaine , can deserue no blame in carrying so watchfull an eye , by their wholesome remedie to prouide for the safetie of the King , and for the dignitie of his Crowne . For if the Clergie shall not stand to their tackle , but shrinke when it commeth to the push of their dutie ; who shall charge themselues with carefull foresight and preuention of mischiefes ? Shall not the people ? Now , haue not all the calamities , which the third Estate haue sought prouidently to preuent ; haue they not all sprung from the Clergie , as from their proper and naturall fountaine ? From whence did the last ciuill warres , wherein a world of blood was not more profusely then prodigiously and vnnaturally spilt , and wherein the parricide of King Henrie III. was impiously and abominably committed : from whence did those bloodie warres proceed , but from the deposing of the said King by the Head of the Church ? Were they not Prelats , Curats , and Confessours ; were they not Ecclesiastics , who partly by seditious preachments , and partly by secret confessions , powred many a jarre of oyle vpon this flame ? Was not he that killed the forenamed King , was not he one of the Clergie ? Was not Guignard a Iesuit ? Was not Iohn Chastel brought vp in the same schoole ? Did not Ravaillac that monster of men , vpon interrogatories made at his examination ; among the rest , by whom he had been so diabolically tempted and stirred vp to his most execrable attempt and act of extreme horror : did not the referre his examiners to the Sermons made the Lent next before , where they might be satisfied concerning the causes of his abominable vndertaking and execution ? Are not Bellarmine , Eudaemonoiohannes , Suarez , Becanus , Mariana , with such other monsters , who teach the doctrine of parricides , vphold the craft of Ianus-like equiuocations in Courts of Iustice , and in secret confessions : are they not all Clerics ? are not all their bookes approoued and allowed , as it were by a corporation or grosse companie of Doctors , with their signes manuel to the saide bookes ? What were the heads , the chiefe promoters , the complices of the powder-conspiracie in my Kingdom ? were they not Ecclesiastics ? Hath not Faux by name , a confederate of the same demned crew ; hath not he stoutly stood to the gunners part , which then he was to act in that most dolefull Tragedie , with asseueration of a conscience well assured and setled , touching the lawfulnes of his enterprise ? Did he not yeild this reason ? to wit , because he had beene armed with instruction of musket proofe in the case , before he made passage ouer from the Low Countries ? Is it not also the generall beleefe of that Order , that Clerics are exempted from the condition of Subiects to the King ? Nay , is it not confessed by the L. Cardinall himselfe , that King-killers haue ingaged themselues to vndertake the detestable act of parricide vnder a false credence of Religion , as beeing instructed by their schoolemasters in Religion ? And who were they but Ecclesiasticall persons ? All this presupposed as matter of truth , I draw this conclusion : Howsoeuer no smal number of the French Clergie may perhaps beare the affection of louing Subiects to their King , and may not suffer the Clericall character to deface the impression of naturall allegiance ; yet , for so much as the Order of Clerics is dipped in a deeper die , and beareth a worse tincture of daungerous practises then the other Orders ; the third Estate had beene greatly wanting to their excellent prouidence and wisdome , if they should haue relinquished and transferred the care of designements and proiects for the life of their King , and the safetie of his Crowne , to the Clergie alone . Moreouer , the Clergie standeth bound to referre the iudgment of all matters in controuersie , to the sentence of the Pope , in this cause beeing a partie , and one that pretendeth Crownes to depend vpon his Mitre . What hope then might the third Estate conceiue , that his Holinesse would passe against his own cause , when his iudgment of the controuersie had been sundrie times before published and testified to the world ? And whereas the plot or modell of remedies proiected by the third Estate , and the Kings Officers , hath not prooued sortable in the euent : was it because the said remedies were not good and lawfull ? No verily : but because the Clergie refused to become contributors of their duty & meanes to the grand seruice . Likewise , for that after the burning of bookes , addressed to iustifie rebellious people , traytors , and parricides of Kings ; neuerthelesse the authors of the said bookes are winked at , and backt with fauour . Lastly , for that some wretched parricides drinke off the cuppe of publike iustice ; whereas to the firebrands of sedition , the sowers of this abominable doctrine , no man saith so much as blacke is their eye . It sufficiently appeareth , as I suppose , by the former passage , that his Lordship exhorting the third Estate to refer the whole care of this Regall cause vnto the Clergie , hath tacked his frame of weake ioynts and tenons to a very worthy but wrong foundation . Howbeit , he laboureth to fortifie his exhortation with a more weak & feeble reason . For to make good his proiect he affirmes , that matters and maximes out of all doubt & question , may not be shuffled together with points in controuersy . Now his rules indubitable are two : The first , It is not lawfull to murther Kings for any cause whatsoeuer . This he confirmeth by the example of Saul ( as he saith ) deposed from his Throne , whose life or limbs Dauid neuerthelesse durst not once hurt or wrong for his life . Likewise he confirmes the same by a Decree of the Council held at Constance . His other point indubitable . The Kings of France are Soueraignes in all Temporall Soueraigntie , within the French Kingdome , and hold not by fealtie either of the Pope , as hauing receiued or obliged their Crownes vpon such tenure and condition , or of any other Prince in the whole world . Which point , neuerthelesse he takes not for certen and indubitable , but onely according to humane and historicall certentie . Now a third point he makes to be so full of controuersie , and so farre within the circle of disputable questions , as it may not be drawne into the ranke of classicall and authenticall points , for feare of making a certen point doubtfull , by shuffling and jumbling therewith some point in controuersie . Now the question so disputable , as he pretendeth , is this . A Christian Prince breakes his oath solemnly taken to God , both to liue and to die in the Catholique Religion . Say this Prince turnes Arrian , or Mahometan , fals to proclaime open warre , and to wage battel with Iesus Christ . Whether may such a Prince be declared to haue lost his Kingdome , and who shall declare the Subiects of such a Prince to be quit of their oath of allegiance ? The L. Cardinall holds the affirmatiue , and makes no bones to maintaine , that all other parts of the Catholique Church , yea the French Church euen from the first birth of her Theologicall Schooles , to Calvins time and teaching , haue professed that such a Prince may be lawfully remooued from his Throne by the Pope , and by the Council : and suppose the contrarie doctrine were the very Quintessence or spirit of truth , yet might it not in case of faith be vrged and pressed otherwise then by way of problematicall disceptation . That is the summe of his Lordsh ▪ ample discourse . The refuting whereof , I am constrained to put off , and referre vnto an other place ; because he hath serued vs with the same dishes ouer & ouer againe . There we shall see the L. Cardinall maketh way to the dispatching of Kings after deposition : that Saul was not deposed , as he hath presumed : that in the Council of Constance there is nothing to the purpose of murthering Soueraigne Princes : that his Lordship , supposing the French King may be depriued of his Crowne by a superiour power , doth not hold his liege Lord to be Soueraigne in France : that by the position of the French Church from age to age , the Kings of France are not subiect vnto any censure of deposition by the Pope : that his Holinesse hath no iust and lawful pretence to produce , that any Christian King holds of him by fealtie , or is obliged to doe the Pope homage for his Crowne . Well then , for the purpose : he dwelleth onely vpon the third point pretended questionable , and this he affirmeth : If any shall condemne , or wrappe vnder the solemne curse , the abettors of the Popes power to vnking lawfull and Soueraigne Kings ; the same shall runne vpon fowre dangerous rocks of apparant incongruities and absurdities . First , he shall offer to force and intangle the consciences of many deuout persons : For hee shall bind them to beleeue and sweare that doctrine , the contrary whereof is beleeued of the whole Church , and hath beene beleeued by their predecessors . Secondly , he shall ouerturne from top to bottome the sacred authoritie of holy Church , and shall set open a gate vnto all sorts of heresie , by allowing lay-persons a bold libertie to be iudges in causes of religion and faith . For what is that degree of boldnesse , but open vsurping of the Priesthood ; what is it but putting of prophane hands into the Arke ; what is it but laying of vnholy fingers vpon the holy Censor for perfumes ? Thirdly , he shal make way to a schisme , not possible to be put by and auoided by any humane prouidence . For this doctrine beeing held and professed by all other Catholicks ; how can we declare it repugnant vnto Gods word ; how can we hold it impious ; how can we accompt it detestable , but we shall renounce communion with the head and other members of the Church ; yea , we shall confesse the Church in all ages to haue been the Synagogue of Satan , and the spouse of the Deuill ? Lastly , by working the establishment of this Article , which worketh an establishment of Kings Crownes ; He shall not onely worke the intended remedy for the danger of Kings , out of all the vertue and efficacie thereof , by weakening of doctrine out of all controuersie , in packing it vp with a disputable question ; but likewise in stead of securing the life and estate of Kings , hee shall draw both into farre greater hazards , by the trayne or sequence of warres , and other calamities which vsually waite and attend on schismes . The L. Cardinall spends his whole discourse in confirmation of these foure heads , which we now intend to sift in order , and demonstratiuely to prooue that all the said inconueniences are meere nullities , matters of imagination , and built vpon false presuppositions . But before we come to the maine , the reader is to be informed and aduertised , that his Lordship setteth a false glosse vpon the question ; and propounds the case not onely contrary to the truth of the subiect in controuersie , but also to the Popes owne minde and meaning . For he restrains the Popes power to depose Kings onely to cases of heresie , Apostasie , and persecuting of the Church ; whereas Popes extend their power to a further distance . They depose Princes for infringing , or in any sort diminishing the priuiledges of Monasteries : witnesse Gregorie the first in the pretended charter graunted to the Abbay of S. Medard at Soissons , the said charter beeing annexed to his Epistles in the rere . The same he testifieth in his Epistle to Senator , by name the 10. of the eleuenth booke . They depose for naturall dulnesse and lacke of capacitie , whether inbred and true indeed , or onely pretended and imagined : witnesse the glorious vaunt of Gregorie VII . that Childeric King of France was hoysted out of his Throne by Pope Zacharie , Not so much for his wicked life , as for his vnablenes to beare the weightie burden of so great a Kingdome . They depose for collating of Benefices and Prebends : witnesse the great quarrells and sore contentions between Pope Innocent III. and Iohn King of England : as also betweene Philip the Faire and Boniface VIII . They depose for adulteries and matrimoniall suites : witnesse Philip. 1. for the repudiating or casting off his lawfull wife Bertha , and marrying in her place with Bertrade wife to the Earle of Aniou . Finally , faine would I learne into what heresie or degree of Apostasie , either Henrie IV. or Freder . Barbarossa , or Frederic 2. Emperours were fallen , when they were smitten with Papall fulminations euen to the depriuation of their Imperiall Thrones . What ? was it for heresie or Apostasie that Pope Martin IV. bare so hard a hand against Peter King of Arragon , that he acquitted and released the Arragonnois from their oath of allegiance to Peter their lawfull King ? Was it for heresie or Apostasie , for Arrianisme or Mahumetisme , that Lewis XII . so good a King and Father of his Countrey , was put downe by Iulius the II ? Was it for heresie or Apostasie , that Sixtus 5. vsurped a power against Henrie III. euen so farre as to denounce him vn-kingd ; the issue whereof was the parricide of that good King , and the most wofull desolation of a most flourishing Kingdome ? But his Lordship best liked to worke vpon that ground , which to the outward shew & appearance , is the most beautifull cause that can be alledged for the dishonouring of Kings by the weapon of deposition : making himselfe to beleeue that he acted the part of an Orator before personages not much acquainted with auncient and moderne histories , and such as little vnderstood the state of the question then in hand . It had therefore beene a good warrant for his Lordship , to haue brought some authentical instrument from the Pope , whereby the French might haue beene secured , that his Holinesse renounceth all other causes auouchable for the degrading of Kings ; and that he will henceforth rest in the case of heresie , for the turning of Kings out of their free-hold : as also that his Holinesse by the same or like instrument , might haue certified his pleasure , that he will not hereafter make himselfe iudge , whether Kings be tainted with damnable heresie , or free from hereticall infection . For that were to make himselfe both iudge and plaintiffe , that it might be in his power to call that doctrine heretical , which is pure orthodoxe : and all for this ende , to make himselfe master of the Kingdome , and there to settle a Successor , who receiuing the Crowne of the Popes free gift and graunt , might be tyed thereby to depend altogether vpon his Holines . Hath not Pope Boniface VIII . declared in his proud letters all those to be heretickes , that dare vndertake to affirme , the collating of Prebends appertaineth to the King ? It was that Popes grosse error , not in the fact , but in the right . The like crime forsooth was by Popes imputed to the vnhappie Emperour Henrie IV. And what was the issue of the said imputation ? The sonne is instigated thereby to rebell against his father , and to impeach the interment of his dead corps , who neuer in his life had beate his braines to trouble the sweet waters of Theologicall fountaines . It is recorded by Auentine , that Bishop Virgilius was declared heretique , for teaching the position of Antipodes . The Bull Exurge , marching in the rere of the last Lateran Council , sets downe this position for one of Luthers heresies , A new life is the best repentance . Among the crimes which the Council of Constance charged Pope Iohn XXIII . withall , one was this : that hee denied the immortalitie of the soule , and that so much was publiquely , manifestly , and notoriously knowne . Now if the Pope shall bee carried by the streame of these or the like errors , and in his hereticall prauitie shall depose a King of the contrary opinion , I shall hardly bee perswaded , the said King is lawfully deposed . The first Inconvenience examined . THE first inconuenience growing ( in the Cardinall his conceit ) by entertaining the Article of the third Estate ( whereby the Kings of France are declared to be indeposeable by any superiour power spirituall or temporall ) is this : It offereth force to the conscience , vnder the penaltie of Anathema , to condemne a doctrine beleeued and practised in the Church , in the continuall current of the last eleuen hundred yeares . In these words he maketh a secret confession , that in the first fiue hundred yeeres , the same doctrin was neither apprehended by faith , nor approoued by practise . Wherein , to my vnderstanding , the L. Cardinall voluntarily giueth ouer the suite . For the Church in the time of the Apostles , their disciples , and successors , for 500. yeares together , was no more ignorant what authoritie the Church is to challenge ouer Emperours and Kings , then at any time since in any succeeding age : in which as pride hath still flowed to the height of a full Sea , so puritie of religion and manners hath kept for the most part at a lowe water-marke . Which point is the rather to be considered , for that during the first 500. yeres , the Church groned vnder the heauy burthen , both of heathen Emperours , and of hereticall Kings ; the Visigot Kings in Spaine , and the Vandals in Affrica . Of whose displeasure the Pope had small reason or cause to stand in any feare , beeing so remote from their dominions , and no way vnder the lee of their Soueraigntie . But let vs come to see , what aide the L. Cardinall hath amassed and piled together out of later histories : prouided wee still beare in mind , that our question is not of popular tumults , nor of the rebellion of subiects making insurrections out of their owne discontented spirits and brain-sicke humors , nor of lawfull Excommunications , nor of Canonicall censures and reprehensions ; but onely of a iuridicall sentence of deposition , pronounced by the Pope , as armed with ordinary and lawfull power to depose , against a Soueraigne Prince . Now then ; The L. Cardinall sets on , and giues the first charge with Anastasius the Emperour , whome Euphemius Patriarke of Constantinople would neuer acknowledge for Emperour : ( that is to say , would neuer consent he should be created Emperour by the help of his voice or suffrage ) except he would first subscribe to the Chalcedon Creed : notwithstanding the great Empresse and Senate sought by violent courses and practises to make him yeeld . And when afterward the said Emperour , contrary to his oath taken , played the relaps by falling into his former heresie , and became a persecutor ; he was first admonished , and then excommunicated by Symmachus Bishop of Rome . To this the L. Cardinall addes , that when the said Emperour was minded to choppe the poison of his hereticall assertions into the publique formes of diuine seruice , then the people of Constantinople made an vproare against Anastasius their Emperour ; and one of his Commanders by force of armes , constrained him to call backe certaine Bishops whome he had sent into banishments before . In this first example the L. Cardinall by his good leaue , neither comes close to the question , nor salutes it a farre off . Euphemius was not Bishop of Rome : Anastasius was not deposed by Euphemius ; the Patriarch onely made no way to the creating of Anastasius . The suddaine commotion of the base multitude makes nothing , the rebellion of a Greeke Commaunder makes lesse , for the authorizing of the Pope to depose a Soueraigne Prince . The Greek Emperour was excommunicated by Pope Symmachus : who knowes whether that be true or forged ? For the Pope himselfe is the onely witnesse here produced by the Lord Cardinall vpon the point : and who knowes not how false , how suppositious , the writings and Epistles of the auncient Popes are iustly esteemed ? But graunt it a truth ; yet Anastasius excommunicated by Pope Symmachus , is not Anastasius deposed by Pope Symmachus . And to make a full answer , I say further , that excommunication denounced by a forraine Bishop , against a party not beeing within the limits of his iurisdiction , or one of his owne flock , was not any barre to the party from the communion of the Church , but onely a kind of publication , that he the said Bishop in his particular , would hold no further communion with any such party . For proofe whereof , I produce the Canons of the Councils held at Carthage . In one of the said Canons it is thus prouided and ordained ; * If any Bishop shall wilfully absent himselfe from the vsual and accustomed Synodes , let him not be admitted to the communion of other Churches , but let him onely vse the benefit and libertie of his owne Church . In an other of the same Canons thus ; * If a Bishop shall insinuate himselfe to make a conueiance of his Monasterie , and the ordering thereof vnto a Monke of any other Cloister ; let him be cut off , let him bee separated from the communion with other Churches , and content himselfe to liue in the communion of his owne flocke . In the same sense Hilarius Bishop of Poictiers excommunicated Liberius Bishop of Rome , for subscribing to the Arrian Confession . In the same sense , Iohn Bishop of Antioch excommunicated Caelestine of Rome , and Cyrill of Alexandria , Bishops ; for proceeding to sentence against Nestorius , without staying his comming to answer in his owne cause . In the same sense likewise , Victor Bishop of Rome did cut off all the Bishops of the East , not from the communion of their owne flocks , but from communion with Victor and the Romane Church . What resemblance , what agreement , what proportion , betweene this course of excommunication , and that way of vniust fulmination which the Popes of Rome haue vsurped against Kings , but yet certaine long courses of time after that auncient course ? And this may stand for a full answer likewise to the example of Clotharius . This auncient King of the French , fearing the censures of Pope Agapetus , erected the territorie of Yuetot vnto the title of a Kingdome , by way of satisfaction for murdering of Gualter , Lord of Yuetot . For this example the L. Cardinall hath ransackt records of 900. yeeres antiquitie and vpward ; in which times it were no hard peice of worke to shewe , that Popes would not haue any hand , nor so much as a finger in the affaires and acts of the French Kings . Gregorie of Tours that liued in the same age , hath recorded many acts of excesse , and violent iniuries done against Bishops by their Kings , and namely against Praetextatus Bishop of Roan ; for any of which iniurious prankes then plaied , the Bishop of Rome durst not reproue the said Kings with due remonstrance . But see here the words of Gregory himselfe to King Chilperic : If any of vs , O King , shall swarue from the path of iustice , him thou hast power to punish : But in case thou shalt at any time transgresse the lines of equitie , who shall once touch thee with reproofe ? To thee we speake , but are neuer heeded and regarded , except it be thy pleasure : and be thou not pleased , who shal challenge thy greatnes , but he that iustly challengeth to be iustice it selfe ? The good Bishop , notwithstanding these humble remonstrances , was but roughly entreated , and packt into exile , beeing banished into the Isle of Gernseye . But I am not minded to make any deepe search or inquisition , into the titles of the Lords of Yuetot : whose honourable priuiledges and titles are the most honourable badges and cognizances of their ancestors , and of some remarquable seruice done to the Crowne of France : so farre I take them to differ from a satisfaction for sinne . And for the purpose I onely affirme , that were the credit of this historie beyond all exception , yet makes it nothing to the present question , wherein the power of deposing , and not of excommunicating , supreme Kings is debated . And suppose the King by charter granted the said priuiledges for feare of excommunication ; how is it prooued thereby , that Pope Agapetus had lawfull and ordinarie power to depriue him of his Crowne ? Nay , doubtlesse it was rather a meanes to eleuate and aduance the dignitie of the Crowne of France , and to style the French King , a King of Kings , as one that was able to giue the qualitie of King , to all the rest of the Nobles and Gentrie of his Kingdome . Doth not some part of the Spanish Kings greatnesse , consist in creating of his Great ? In the next place followeth Gregorie I. who in the 10. Epistle of the 11. booke , confirming the priuiledges of the Hospital at Augustodunum in Bourgongne , prohibiteth all Kings and Prelates whatsoeuer , to infringe or diminish the said priuiledges , in whole or in part . His formall and expresse words be these : If any King , Prelate , Iudge , or any other secular person , informed of this our constitution , shall presume to go or do contrary thereunto , let him be cast downe from his power and dignitie . I answer ; the Lord Cardinal here wrongs himselfe very much , in taking imprecations for Decrees . Might not euen the meanest of the people vse the same tenour of words , and say ? If any shall touch the life , or the most sacred Maiestie of our Kings , be he Emperour , or be hee Pope , let him be accursed ; let him fall from his eminent place of authoritie , let him lose his dignity ; let him tumble into beggarie , diseases , and all kinds of calamities ? I forbeare to shewe how easie a matter it is for Monkes , to forge titles after their owne humour , and to their owne liking , for the vpholding and maintaining of their priuiledges . As for the purpose , the same Gregorie citeth in the end of his Epistles an other priuiledge , of the like stuffe and stamp to the former , granted to the Abbey of S. Medard at Soissons . It is fenced with a like clause to the other . But of how great vntruth , and of how little weight it is , the very date that it beareth makes manifest proofe : For it runnes , Dated the yeare of our Lords Incarnation 593. the 11. Indiction ; whereas the 10. Indiction agreeth to the yeare 593. Besides , it was not Gregories manner to date his Epistles according to the yeare of the Lord. Againe , the said priuiledge was signed by the Bishops of Alexandria and Carthage , who neuer knew ( as may wel be thought ) whether any such Abbey of S. Medard , or citie of Soissons , was euer built in the world . Moreouer , they signed in the thickest of a crowde as it were of Italian Bishops . Lastly , he that shall read in this Gregories Epistles , with what spirit of reuerence and humilitie hee speaketh of Emperours , will hardly beleeue that euer he armed himselfe with authoritie to giue or to take away Kingdomes . He styles himselfe * the Emperours vnworthie seruant : presuming to speake vnto his Lord , when hee knowes himselfe to bee but dust and a very worme . Hee professeth subiection vnto the Emperours commaunds , euen to the publishing of a certaine Law of the Emperours , which in his iudgement somewhat iarred and iustled with Gods Lawe : as elsewhere I haue spoken more at large . The L. Cardinall next bringeth vpon the stage Iustinian 2. He , beeing in some choller with Sergius Bishop of Rome , because he would not fauour the erroneous Synode of Canstantinople , would haue caused the Bishop to bee apprehended by his Constable Zacharias . But by the Romane Militia , ( that is , the troupes which the Emperour then had in Italie ) Zacharias was repulsed and hindered from his designe , euen with opprobrious & reproachfull tearmes . His Lordship must haue my shallownes excused , if I reach not his intent by this allegation ; wherein I see not one word of deposing from the Empire , or of any sentence pronounced by the Pope . Here are now 712. yeares expired after the birth of Iesus Christ : in all which long tract of time , the L. Cardinal hath not light vpon any instance , which might make for his purpose with neuer so little shew . For the example of the Emperour Philippicus , by the Cardinal alledged next in sequence , belongeth to the yeare 713. And thus lies the historie : This Emperour Philippicus Bardanes , was a professed enemie to the worshipping of Images , and commanded them to be broken in peices . In that verie time the Romane Empire was ouerthrown in the West , and sore shaken by the Saracens in the East . Beside those miseries , the Emperour was also incumbred with a ciuil and intestine warre . The greatest part of Italie was then seized by the Lombards , and the Emperour in Italie had nothing left saue onely the Exarchat of Rauenna , and the Dutchie of Rome , then halfe abandoned by reason of the Emperours want of forces . Pope Constantine gripes this occasion whereon to ground his greatnesse , and to shake off the yoke of the Emperour his Lord : Vndertakes against Philippicus the cause of Images : By a Council declares the Emperour heretique ▪ Prohibites his rescripts or coine to be receiued , and to goe currant in Rome : Forbids his Imperiall statue to bee set vp in the Temple , according to auncient custome : The tumult groweth to a height : The Pope is principall promoter of the tumult : In the heate of the tumult the Exarche of Rauenna looseth his life . Here see now the mutinie of a subiect against his Prince , to pull from him by force and violence a citie of his Empire . But who seeth in all this any sentence of deposition from the Imperial dignity ? Nay , the Pope then missed the cushion , and was disappointed vtterly of his purpose . The cittie of Rome stood firme , and continued still in their obedience to the Emperour . About some 12. yeeres after , the Emperour Leo Isauricus ( whome the Lord of Perron calleth Iconoclast ) falles to fight it out at sharpe , and to prosecute worshippers of Images with all extremitie . Vpon this occasion , Pope Gregorie 2. then treading in the steps of his predecessor , when he perceiued the citie of Rome to be but weakly prouided of men or munition , and the Emperour to haue his hands full in other places , found such meanes to make the citie rise in rebellious armes against the Emperour , that he made himselfe in short time master thereof . Thus far the L. Card. wherunto my answer for satisfaction is ; that degrading an Emperour from his Imperiall dignitie , and reducing a citie to reuolt against her Master , that a man at last may carrie the peice himselfe , and make himselfe Lord thereof , are two seuerall actions of speciall difference . If the free-hold of the citie had beene conueied to some other by the Pope depriuing the Emperour , as proprietarie thereof , this example might haue challenged some credit at least in shew : but so to inuade the citie to his owne vse , and so to seize on the right and authority of another , what is it but open rebellion , and notorious ambition ? For it is farre from Ecclesiasticall censure , when the spirituall Pastor of soules forsooth , pulles the cloake of a poore sinner from his backe by violence , or cuts his purse , and thereby appropriates an other mans goods to his priuate vse . It is to be obserued withall , that when the Emperours were not of sufficient strength , and Popes had power to beard and to braue Emperours , then these Papall practises were first set on foot . This Emperour notwithstanding , turned head and peckt againe : his Lieutenant entred Rome , and Gregorie 3. successor to this Gregorie 2. was glad to honour the same Emperour with style and title of his Lord : witnes two seueral Epistles of the said Gregory 3. written to Boniface , and subscribed in this forme : Dated the tenth Calends of December : In the raigne of our most pious and religious Lord , Angustus Leo , crowned of God , the great Emperour , in the tenth yeare of his raigne . The L. Cardinall with no lesse abuse alleadgeth Pope Zacharie , by whome the French , as he affirmeth , were absolued of the oath of allegiance , wherein they stood bound to Childeric their King. And for this instance , he standeth vpon the testimonie of Paulus Aemilius , and du Tillet , a paire of late writers . But by authors more neere that age wherein Childeric raigned , it is more truely testified , that it was a free and voluntarie act of the French , onely asking the aduise of Pope Zacharie , but requiring neither leaue nor absolution . Ado Bishop of Vienna , in his Chronicles hath it after this manner : The French , following the Counsell of Embassadors , and of Pope Zachary , elected Pepin their King , and established him in the Kingdome . Trithemius in his abridgement of Annals , thus : Childeric , as one vnfit for gouernement , was turned out of his Kingdome , with common consent of the Estates and Peeres of the Realme , so aduised by Zacharie Pope of Rome . Godfridus of Viterbe in the 17. part of his Chronicle ; and Guaguin in the life of Pepin , affirme the same . And was it not an easie matter to worke Pepin by counsell to lay hold on the Kingdome , when he could not be hindered from fastening on the Crowne , and had already seizd it in effect , howsoeuer he had not yet attained to the name of King ? Moreouer , the rudenesse of that Nation , then wanting knowledge and Schooles either of diuinitie , or of Academicall sciences , was a kind of spurre to make them runne for counsell ouer the mountaines : which neuerthelesse in a cause of such nature , they required not as necessary , but onely as decent and for fashion sake . The Pope also for his part was well appaied , by this meanes to drawe Pepin vnto his part ; as one that stood in some need of his aide against the Lombards ; and the more , because his Lord the Emperour of Constantinople was then brought so low , that he was not able to send him sufficient aide , for the defence of his territories against his enemies . But had Zacharie ( to deale plainely ) not stood vpon the respect of his owne commoditie , more then vpon the regard of Gods feare ; he would neuer haue giuen counsel vnto the seruant , vnder the pretended colour of his Masters dull spirit , so to turne rebell against his Master . The Lawes prouide Gardians , or ouerseers , for such as are not well in their wits ; they neuer depriue and spoile them of their estate : they punish crimes , but not diseases and infirmities by nature . Yea , in France it is a very auncient custome , when the King is troubled in his wittes to establish a Regent , who for the time of the Kings disability , may beare the burden of the Kingdomes affaires . So was the practise of that State in the case of Charles 6. when he fell into a phrensie ; whome the Pope notwithstanding his most grieuous and sharpe fits , neuer offered to degrade . And to be short , what reason , what equity will beare the children to be punished for the fathers debilitie ? Yet such punishment was laid vpon Childerics whole race and house ; who by this practise were all disinherited of the Kingdome . But shall wee now take some viewe , of the L. Cardinals excuse for this exemplarie fact ? The cause of Childerics deposing , ( as the L. Cardinal saith ) did neerly concerne and touch Religion . For Childerics imbecillitie brought all France into danger , to suffer a most wofull shipwracke of Christian religion , vpon the barbarous and hostile inuasion of the Saracens . Admit now this reason had beene of iust weight and value , yet consideration should haue been taken , whether some one or other of that Royallstemme , and of the Kings owne successors neerest of blood , was not of better capacitie to rule and mannage that mightie State. The feare of vncertaine and accidentall mischiefe , should not haue driuen them to slie vnto the certain mischiefe of actuall and effectuall deposition . They should rather haue set before their eies the example of Charles Martel , this Pepins father ; who in a farre more eminent danger , when the Saracens had already mastered , and subdued a great part of France , valiantly encountred , and withall defeated the Saracens ; ruled the Kingdome vnder the title of Steward of the Kings house , the principall Officer of the Crowne ; without affecting or aspiring to the Throne for all that great steppe of aduantage , especially when the Saracens were quite broken , and no longer dreadfull to the French Nation . In our owne Scotland , the sway of the Kingdome was in the hand of Walles , during the time of Bruse his imprisonment in England , who then was lawfull heire to the Crowne . This Walles or Vallas had the whole power of the Kingdome at his beck and command . His edicts and ordinances to this day stand in full force . By the deadly hatred of Bruse his mortall enemie , it may be coniectured , that hee might haue beene prouoked and inflamed with desire to trusse the Kingdome in his talants . And notwithstanding all these incitements , hee neuer assumed or vsurped other title to himselfe , then of Gouernour or Administrator of the Kingdome . The reason . Hee had not beene brought vp in this newe doctrine and late discipline , whereby the Church is endowed with power to giue and to take away Crownes . But now ( as the L. Cardinall would beare the world in hand ) the state of Kings is brought to a very dead lift . The Pope forsooth must send his Phisitians , to know by way of inspection or some other course of Art , whether the Kings braine be crackt or found : and in case there be found any debility of wit and reason in the King , then the Pope must remooue and translate the Crowne , from the weaker braine to a stronger : and for the acting of the stratageme , the name of Religion must be pretended . Ho , these heretikes beginne to crawle in the Kingdome : order must bee taken they be not suffered by their multitudes and swarmes , like locusts or caterpillars to pester and poison the whole Realme . Or in a case of matrimonie , thus : Ho , marriage is a Sacrament : touch the Order of Matrimonie , and Religion is wounded . By this deuise not onely the Kings vices , but likewise his naturall diseases and infirmities are fetcht into the circle of Religion ; and the L. Cardinal hath not done himselfe right , in restraining the Popes power to depose Kings , vnto the cafes of heresie , Apostasie , and persecution of the Church . In the next place followeth Leo III. who by setting the Imperiall Crowne vpon the head of Charles , absolued all the subiects in the West , of their obedience to the Greeke Emperours , if the L. of Perron might be credited in this example . But indeed it is crowded among the rest by a slie tricke , and cleane contrary to the naked truth of all histories . For it shall neuer bee iustified by good historie , that so much as one single person or man ( I say not one Country , or one people ) was then wrought or wonne by the Pope , to change his copy and Lord , or from a subiect of the Greeke Emperours , to turne subiect vnto Charlemayne . Let me see but one Towne that Charlemayne recouered from the Greeke Emperours , by his right and title to his Empire in the West : No , the Greeke Emperours had taken their farwell of the West Empire long before . And therefore to nick this vpon the tallie of Pope Leo his Acts , that hee tooke away the West from the Greeke Emperour , it is euen as if one should say , that in this age the Pope takes the Dukedome of Milan from the French Kings , or the citie of Rome from the Emperours of Germany , because their predecessors in former ages had beene right Lords and gouernours of them both . It is one of the Popes ordinary and solemne practises to take away , much after the manner of his giuing . For as he giueth what he hath not in his right and power to giue , or bestoweth vpon others what is alreadie their owne : euen so he taketh away from Kings and Emperors the possessions which they haue not in present hold and possession . After this manner he takes the West from the Greeke Emperours , when they hold nothing in the West , and lay no claime to any citie or towne of the West Empire . And what shall we call this way of depriuation , but spoyling a naked man of his garments , and killing a man alreadie dead ? True it is , the Imperiall Crowne was then set on Charlemaynes head by Leo the Pope : did Leo therefore giue him the Empire ? No more then a Bishop that crownes a King , at his Royall and solemne consecration doth giue him the Kingdome . For shal the Pope himselfe take the Popedome from the Bishop of Ostia as of his gift , because the crowning of the Pope is an office of long time peculiar to the Ostian Bishop ? It was the custome of Emperours , to be crowned Kings of Italy by the hands of the Archbishop of Milan : did he therefore giue the kingdome of Italy to the said Emperours ? And to returne vnto Charlemayne ; If the Pope had conueied the Empire to him by free and gratious donation , the Pope doubtlesse in the solemnity of his coronation , would neuer haue performed vnto his owne creature , an Emperour of his owne making , the duties of adoration , as Ado that liued in the same age hath left it on record : After the solemne praises ended ( saith Ado ) the cheife Bishop honoured him with adoration , according to the custome of auncient Princes . The same is likewise put downe by Auentine , in the 4. booke of his Annals of Bauaria . The like by the President Fauchet in his antiquities : and by Mons. Petau Councellor in the Court of Parliament at Paris , in his preface before the Chronicles of Eusebius , Hierome , and Sigebert . It was therefore the people of Rome that called this Charles the Great vnto the Imperiall dignitie , and cast on him the title of Empeerour . So testifieth Sigebert vpon the yeere 801. All the Romanes with one generall voice and consent , ring out acclamations of Imperiall praises to the Emperour , they crowne him by the hands of Leo the Pope , they giue him the style of Caesar and Augustus . Marianus Scotus hath as much in effect : Charles was then called Augustus by the Romanes . And so Platina . After the solemne seruice , Leo declareth and proclameth Charles Emperour , according to the publike decree and generall request of the people of Rome . Aventine , and Sigonius in his 4. booke of the Kingdome of Italie witnes the same . Neuerthelesse to gratifie the L. Cardinall : Suppose Pope Leo dispossessed the Greeke Emperours of the West Empire . What was the cause ? what infamous act had they done ? what prophane and irreligious crime had they committed ? Nicephorus and Irene , who raigned in the Greeke Empire in Charlemaynes time , were not reputed by the Pope , or taken for heretikes . How then ? The L. Cardinall helpeth at a pinch , and putteth vs in minde , that Constantine and Leo , predecessors to the said Emperours , had beene poysoned with heresie , and stained with persecution . Here then behold an Orthodoxe Prince deposed . For what cause ? for heresie forsooth , not in himselfe but in some of his predecessors long before . An admirable case . For I am of a contrary minde , that he was worthy of double honour , in restoring and setting vp the truth againe , which vnder his predecessors had indured oppression , and suffered persecution . Doubtlesse Pope Siluester was greatly ouerseene , and plaied not well the Pope , when he winked at Constantine the Great , and cast him not downe from his Imperiall Throne , for the strange infidelitie and paganisme of Diocletian , of Maximian , and Maxentius , whome Constantine succeeded in the Empire . From this example the L. of Perron passeth to Fulke Archbishop of Reims : by whome Charles the Simple was threatned with Excommunication , and refusing to continue any longer in the fidelity and allegiance of a subiect . To what purpose is this example ? For who can be ignorant , that all ages haue brought forth turbulent and stirring spirits , men altogether forgetfull of respect and obseruance towards their Kings , especially when the world finds them shallow and simple-witted , like vnto this Prince ? But in this example , where is there so much as one word of the Pope , or the deposing of Kings ? Here the L. Cardinall chops in the example of Philip 1. King of France , but mangled , and strangely disguised , as hereafter shall be shewed . At last he leadeth vs to Gregory VII . surnamed Hildebrand , the scourge of Emperours , the firebrand of warre , the scorne of his age . This Pope , after he had ( in the spirit of pride , and in the very height of all audaciousnesse ) thundred the sentence of excommunication and deposition , against the Emperour Henry 4. after he had enterprised this act without all precedent example : after hee had filled all Europe with blood : this Pope , I say , sunke downe vnder the weight of his affaires , and died as a fugitiue at Salerne , ouerwhelmed with discontent and sorrowe of heart . Here lying at the point of giuing vp the ghoast , calling vnto him ( as it is in Sigebert ) a certaine Cardinall whome hee much fauoured , He confesseth to God , and Saint Peter , and the whole Church , that he had beene greatly defectiue in the Pastor all charge cōmitted to his care ; and that by the Deuills instigation , he had kindled the fire of Gods wrath and hatred against mankind . Then he sent his Confessor to the Emperour , and to the whole Church to pray for his pardon , because hee perceiued that his life was at an end . Likewise Cardinal Benno that liued in the said Gregories time , doth testifie , That so soone as he was risen out of his Chaire to excommunicate the Emperour from his Cathedrall seate : by the will of God the said Cathedrall seate , new made of strong board or plancke , did cracke and cleaue into many peices or parts : to manifest how great and terrible schismes had beene sowed against the Church of Christ , by an excommunication of so dangerous consequence , pronounced by the man that had sit Iudge therein . Now to bring and alleadge the example of such a man , who by attempting an act which neuer any man had the heart or face to attempt before , hath condemned all his predecessors of cowardise , or at least of ignorance ; what is it else , but euen to send vs to the schoole of mighty robbers , and to seeke to correct and reforme ancient vertues by late vices . Which Otho Frisingensis calling into his owne priuate consideration , he durst freely professe , that he had not reade of any Emperour before this Henrie the 4. excommunicated or driuen out of his Imperiall Throne and Kingdome by the cheife Bishop of Rome . But if this quarrell may bee tryed and fought out with weapons of examples , I leaue any indifferent reader to iudge what examples ought in the cause to be of cheifest authoritie and weight : whether late examples of Kings deposed by Popes , for the most part neuer taking the intended effect ; or auncient examples of Popes actually and effectually thrust out of their thrones by Emperous and Kings . The Emperour Constantius expelled Liberius Bishop of Rome out of the citie , banished him as farre as Beroe , and placed Foelix in his roome . Indeed Constantius was an Arrian , and therein vsed no lesse impious then vniust proceeding . Neuertheles the auncient Fathers of the Church , do not blame Constantius for his hard and sharpe dealing with a cheife Bishop , ouer whom he had no lawfull power , but onely as an enemie to the Orthodoxe faith , and one that raged with extreame rigor of persecution against innocent beleeuers . In the raigne of Valentinian the 1. and yeare of the Lord 367. the contention between Damasus and Vrsicinus competitors for the Bishoppricke , filled the cittie of Rome with a bloody sedition , in which were wickedly and cruelly murdered 137. persons . To meete with such turbulent actions , Honorius made a law extant in the Decretalls , the words whereof be these ; If it shall happen henceforth by the temeritie of competitors , that any two Bishops be elected to the See , wee straitly charge and command , that neither of both shall sit in the said , See. By vertue of this Law , the same Honorius in the yere 420. expelled Bonifacius and Eulalius , competitors and Antipopes out of Rome , though not long after he reuoked Bonifacius , and settled him in the Papall See. Theodoric the Goth King of Italie , sent Iohn Bishop of Rome Embassador to the Emperour Iustinian , called him home againe , and clapt him vp in the close prison , where hee starued to death . By the same King , Peter Bishop of Altine was dispatched to Rome , to heare the cause and examine the processe of Pope Symmachus , then indited and accused of sundry crimes . King Theodatus about the yeare 537. had the seruice of Pope Agapetus , as his Embassadour to the Emperour Iustinian , vpon a treatie of peace . Agapetus dying in the time of that seruicc , Syluerius is made Bishop by Theodatus . Not long after , Syluerius is driuen out by Belisarius the Emperour his Lieutenant , and sent into banishment . After Syluerius next succeedeth Vigilius , who with currant coine purchased the Popedome of Belisarius . The Emperour Iustinian sends for Vigilius to Constantinople , and receiues him there with great honour . Soone after , the Emperour takes offence at his freenesse in speaking his mind , commands him to be beaten with stripes in manner to death , and with a roape about his necke to be drawne through the city like a theife , as Platina relates the historie . Nicephorus in his 26. booke , and 17. chapter , comes very neere the same relation . The Emperour Constantius , in the yere 654. caused Pope Martin to be bound with chains , & banished him into Chersonesus , where he ended his life . The Popes in that age writing to the Emperors , vsed none but submissiue tearmes , by way of most humble supplications ; made profession of bowing the knee before their sacred Maiesties , and of executing their commaunds with entire obedience ; payed to the Emperours twenty pound weight of gold for their Inuestiture ; which tribute was afterward released and remitted , by Constantine the Bearded , to Pope Agatho , in the yere 679. as I haue obserued in an other place . Nay further , euen when the power and riches of the Popes was growne to great height , by the most profuse and immense munificence of Charlemayne and Lewis his sonne ; the Emperours of the West did not relinquish and giue ouer the making and vnmaking of Popes , as they saw cause . Pope ' Adrian 1. willingly submitted his necke to this yoke : and made this Law to be passed in a Council , that in Charlemain should rest all right and power for the Popes election , and for the gouernement of the Papall See. This Constitution is inserted in the Decretals , Dist . 63. Can. * Hadrianus , and was confirmed by the practise of many yeeres . In the yeare of the L. 963. the Emperour Otho tooke away the Popedom from Iohn 13. and placed Leo 8. in his roome . In like manner , Iohn 14. Gregorie 5. and Siluester 2. were seated in the Papal Throne by the Othos . The Emperour Henrie 2. in the yeere 1007. deposed three Popes , namely , Benedict 9. Siluester 3. and Gregorie 6. whom Platina doth not sticke to call , three most detestable and vile monsters . This custome continued , this practise stood in force for diuers ages , euen vntill the times of Gregorie 7. by whome the whole West was tossed and turmoiled with lamentable warres , which plagued the world , and the Empire by name with intolerable troubles and mischiefes . For after the said Gregorian wars , the Empire fell from bad to worse , and so went on to decay , till Emperours at last were driuen to begge , and receiue the Imperiall Crowne of the Pope . The Kingdome of France met not with so rude entreatie , but was dealt withall by courses of a milder temper . Gregorie 4. about the yere of the Lord 832. was the first Pope that perswaded himselfe to vse the censure of Excommunication against a King of France . This Pope hauing a hand in the troublesome factions of the Realme , was nothing backward to side with the sonnes of Lewis , surnamed the Courteous , by wicked conspiracy entring into a desperate course and complot against Lewis their owne Father : as witnesseth Sigebert in these words , Pope Gregorie comming into France , ioyned himselfe to the sonnes against the Emperour their Father . But Annals of the verie same times ; and he that furbushed Aimonius , a religious of S. Benedicts order , do testifie , that all the Bishops of France fell vpon this resolution ; by no meanes to rest in the Popes pleasure , or to giue any place vnto his designe : and contrariwise , In case the Pope should proceed to excommunication of their King , he should returne out of Fraunce to Rome an excommunicate person himself . The Chronicle of S. Denis hath words in this forme : The Lord Apostolicall returned answer , that he was not come into Fraunce for any other purpose , but onely to excommunicate the King and his Bishops , if they would be in any sort opposite vnto the sonnes of Lewis , or disobedient vnto the will and pleasure of his Holinesse . The Prelats enformed hereof made answer , that in this case they would neuer yeeld obedience to the Excommunication of the said Bishops : because it was contrarie to the authority and aduise of the auncient Canons . After these times , Pope Nicholas , 1. depriued King Lotharius of communion ( for in those times not a word of deposing ) to make him repudiate or quit Valdrada , and to resume or take again Thetberga his former wife . The articles framed by the French vpon this point , are to be found in the writings of Hincmarus Archbishop of Reims , and are of this purport ; that in the iudgement of men both learned and wise , it is an ouerruled case , that as the King whatsoeuer he shall doe , ought not by his own Bishops to be excommunicated , euen so no forraine Bishop hath power to sit for his Iudge : because the King is to be subiect onely vnto God , and his Imperiall authoritie , who alone had the al-sufficient power to settle him in his Kingdome . Moreouer , the Clergie addressed letters of answer vnto the same Pope , full of stinging and bitter tearms , with speaches of great scorne and contempt , as they are set downe by Auentine in his Annals of Bauaria , not forbearing to call him theife , wolfe , and tyrant . When Pope Hadrian tooke vpon him like a Lord , to commaund Charles the Bald vpon paine of interdiction , that hee should suffer the Kingdome of Lotharius to be fully and entirely conueied and conferred vpon Lewis his sonne ; the same Hinemarus , a man of great authoritie and estimation in that age , sent his letters containing sundrie remonstrances touching that subiect . Among other matters thus he writeth , The Ecclesiastics and Seculars of the Kingdom assembled at Reims , haue affirmed and now do affirme by way of reproach , vpbrading , & exprobation , that neuer was the like mandate sent before from the See of Rome to any of our predecessors . And a little after : The cheife Bishops of the Apostolike See , or any other Bishops of the greatest authoritie and holinesse , neuer withdrew themselues from the presence , from the reuerend salutation , or from the conference of Emperours and Kings , whether hereticks , or schismiticks and Tyrants : As Constantius the Arrian , Julianus the Apostata , and Maxmius the tyrant . And yet a little after ; Wherefore if the Apostolicke Lord be minded to seeke peace , let him seeke it so , that hee stirre no brawles , and breed no quarrels . For we are no such babes to beleeue , that wee can or euer shall attaine to Gods Kingdome , vnlesse we receiue him for our King in earth , whom God himselfe recommendeth to vs from heauen . It is added by Hincmarus in the same place , that by the said Bishops and Lords Temporall , such threatning words were blowne forth , as he is afraid once to speake and vtter . As for the King himselfe , what reckoning he made of the Popes mandates , it appeareth by the Kings owne letters addressed to Pope Hadrianus , as we may reade euery where in the Epistles of Hincmarus . For there , after King Charles hath taxed and challenged the Pope of pride , and hit him in the teeth with a spirit of vsurpation , he breaketh out into these words : What hell hath cast vp this lawe so crosse and preposterous ? what infernall gulph hath disgorged this law out of the darkest and obscurest dennes ? a law quite contrarie and altogether repugnant vnto the beaten way shewed vs in the holy Scriptures , &c. Yea , he flatly and peremptorily forbids the Pope , except he meane or desire to be recompenced with dishonour and contempt , to send any more the like mandates , either to himselfe , or to his Bishops . Vnder the raigne of Hugo Capetus and Robert his sonne , a Council now extant in all mens hands , was held and celebrated at Reims by the Kings authority . There Arnulphus Bishop of Orleans , then Prolocutor and Speaker of the Council , calls the Pope Antichrist , and lets not also to paint him forth like a monster : as well for the deformed and vgly vices of that vnholy See , which then were in their exaltation , as also because the Pope then won with presents , and namely with certaine goodly horses , then presented to his Holinesse , tooke part against the King , with Arnulphus Bishop of Reims , then dispossed of his Pastorall charge . When Philip 1. had repudiated his wife Bertha , daughter to the Earle of Holland , and in her place had also taken to wife Bertrade the wife of Fulco Earle of Aniou yet being aliue ; he was excommunicated , and his Kingdom interdicted by Vrbanus then Pope , ( though he was then bearded with an Antipope ) as the L. Cardinal here giueth vs to vnderstand . But his Lordship hath skipt ouer two principall points recorded in the historie . The first is , that Philip was not deposed by the Pope : whereupon it is to be inferred , that in this passage there is nothing materiall to make for the Popes power against a Kings Throne and Scepter . The other point is , that by the censures of the Pope , the course of obedience due to the King before was not interrupted , nor the King disauowed , refused , or disclaimed : but on the contrary , that Iuo of Chartres taking Pope Vrbanus part , was punished for his presumption , dispoyled of his estate , and kept in prison : whereof hee makes complaint himselfe in his 19. and 20. Epistles . The L. Cardinal besides , in my vnderstanding , for his Masters honour , should haue made no words of interdicting the whole Kingdome . For when the Pope , to giue a King chastisement , doth interdict his Kingdome , he makes the people to beare the punishment of the Kings offence . For during the time of interdiction , the Church doores through the whole Kingdome are kept continually shut and lockt vp : publike seruice is intermitted in all places : bels euery where silent : Sacraments not administred to the people : bodies of the dead so prostituted and abandoned , that none dares burie the said bodies in holy ground . More , it is beleeued , that a man dying vnder the curse of the interdict , ( without some speciall indulgence or priuiledge ) is for euer damned and adiudged to eternall punishments , as one that dyeth out of the communion of the Church . Put case then the interdict holdeth and continueth for many yeares together ; alas , how many millions of poore soules are damned , and goe to hell for an others offence ? For what can , or what may the faltlesse and innocent people doe withall , if the King will repudiate his wife , and she yet liuing , ioyne himselfe in matrimonie to an other ? The Lord Cardinall after Philip the 1. produceth Philippus Augustus , who hauing renounced his wife Ingeberga daughter to the King of Denmarke , and marrying with Agnes daughter to the Duke of Morauia , was by Pope Innocent the third interdicted himselfe and his whole Kingdome . But his Lordshippe was not pleased to insert withall , what is auerred in the Chronicle of Saint Denis : that Pope Celestinus 3. sent forth two Legats at once vpon this errand : Who being come into to the assemblie and generall Council of all the French Prelats , became like dumbe dogs that can not barke , so as they could not bring the seruice which they had vndertaken to any good passe , because they stood in a bodily feare of their owne hydes . Not long after , the Cardinal of Capua was in the like taking : For he durst not bring the Realme within the limits of the interdict , before he was got out of the limits of the Kingdome . The King herewith incensed , thrust all the Prelates that had giuen consent vnto these proceedings out of their Sees , confiscated their goods , &c. To the same effect is that which wee reade in Math. Paris . After the Pope had giuen his Maiesty to vnderstand by the Cardinal of Anagnia , that his Kingdome should be interdicted , vnlesse hee would be reconciled to the King of England ▪ the King returned the Pope this answer , that he was not in any sort afraid of the Popes sentence , for as much as it could not bee grounded vpon any equity of the cause : and added withall , that it did no way appertain vnto the Church of Rome to sentence Kings , especially the King of Fraunce . And this was done , saith Iohannes Tilius Register in Court of Parliament at Paris , by the counsell of the French Barons . Most notable is the example of Philip the Faire , and hits the bird in the right eie . In the yeere 1032. the Pope dispatched the Archbishop of Narbona with mandates into France , commaunding the King to release the Bishop of Apamia then detained in prison , for contumelious words tending to the Kings defamation , and spoken to the Kings owne head . In very deede this Pope had conceiued a secret grudge , and no light displeasure against King Philip before : namely , because the King had taken vpon him the collation of benefices , and other Ecclesiasticall dignities . Vpon which occasion the Pope sent letters to the King of this tenour and style : Feare God , and keepe his commaundements : We would haue thee knowe , that in spirituall and temporall causes thou art subiect vnto our selfe : that collating of benefices and prebends doth not in any sort appertaine to thy office and place : that , in case as keeper of the spiritualties , thou haue the custodie of benefices and prebends in thy hand when they become void , thou shalt by sequestration reserue the fruites of the same , to the vse and benefit of the next incumbents and successors : and in case thou hast heretofore collated any , we ordaine the said collations to bee meerely void : and so farre as herein thou hast proceeded to the fact , we reuoke the said collations . We hold them for hereticks whosoeuer are not of this beleefe . A Legate comes to Paris , and brings these brauing letters : By some of the Kings faithful seruants they are violently snatched and pulled out of the Legates hands : by the Earle of Artois they are cast into the fire . The good King answers the Pope , and payes him in as good coyne as he had sent . Philip by the grace of God King of the French , to Boniface calling and bearing himselfe the Soueraigne Bishop , little greeting or none at all . May thy exceeding sottishnesse vnderstand , that in temporall causes we are not subiect vnto any mortall and earthly creature : that collating of benefices and prebends , by Regall right appertaineth to our office and place : that appropriating their fruites when they become voide , belongeth to our selfe alone during their vacancie : that all collations by vs heretofore made , or to be made hereafter , shall stand in force : that in the validitie and vertue of the said collations , we will euer couragiously defend and maintaine , all Incumbents and possessors of benefices and prebends so by vs collated . We hold them all for sots and senselesse , whosoeuer are not of this beleefe . The Pope incensed herewith excommunicates the King : but no man dares publish that censure , or become bearer thereof . The King notwithstanding the said proceedings of the Pope , assembles his Prelates , Barons , and Knights at Paris : askes the whole assembly , of whome they hold their Fees , with all other the Temporalties of the Church . They make answer with one voice , that in the said matters they disclaime the Pope , and know none other Lord beside his Maiestie . Meane while the Pope worketh with Germanie and the Lowe Countries , to stirre them vp against France . But Philip sendeth William of Nogaret into Italy . William by the direction and aide of Sciarra Columnensis , takes the Pope at Anagnia , mounts him vpon a leane ill-fauoured iade , carries him prisoner to Rome ; where ouercome with choller , anguish , and great indignation , hee takes his last leaue of the Popedome and his life . All this notwithstanding , the King presently after , from the successors of Boniface receiues very ample and gratious Bulls , in which the memorie of all the former passages and actions is vtterly abolished . Witnesse the Epistle of Clement 5. wherein this King is honoured with prayses , for a pious and religious Prince , and his Kingdom is restored to the former estate . In that age the French Nobilitie carried other manner of spirits , then the moderne and present Nobilitie doe : I meane those by whome the L. Cardinal was applauded and assisted in his Oration . Yea , in those former times the Prelates of the Realme stood better affected towards their King , then the L. Cardinal himselfe now standeth : who could finde none other way to dally with , and to shift off this pregnant example , but by plaine glosing , that heresie and Apostasie was no ground of that question , or subiect of that controuersie . Wherein hee not onely condemnes the Pope , as one that proceeded against Philip without a iust cause and good ground ; but likewise giues the Pope the lie , who , in his goodly letters but a little aboue recited , hath enrowled Philip in the list of heretiks . He saith moreouer , that indeed the knot of the question was touching the Popes pretence , in challenging to himselfe the temporall Soueraingntie of France , that is to say , in qualifying himselfe King of France . But indeed and indeede no such matter to be found . His whole pretence was the collating of benefices , and to pearch aboue the King to crowe ouer his Crowne in Temporall causes . At which pretence his Holinesse yet aimeth , still attributing and and challenging to himselfe plenary power to depose the King. Now if the L. Cardinal shall yet proceede to cauill , that Boniface 8. was taken by the French for an vsurper , and no lawfull Pope , but for one that crept into the Papacy by fraud and symonie ; hee must bee pleased to set downe positiuely who was Pope , seeing that Boniface then sate not in the Papall chaire . To conclude , If hee that creepeth and stealeth into the Papacie by symonie , by canuases or labouring of suffrages vnder hand , or by bribery , be not lawfull Pope ; I dare bee bold to professe , there will hardly bee found two lawfull Popes in the three last ages . Pope Benedict in the yeare 1408. being in choller with Charles 6. because Charles had bridled and curbed the gainefull exactions and extorsions of the Popes Court , by which the Realme of France had been exhausted of their treasure , sent an excommunicatorie Bull into Fraunce , against Charles the King , and all his Princes . The Vniuersitie of Paris made request or motion that his Bull might be mangled , and Pope Benedict himselfe , by some called Petrus de Luna , might be declared heretike , schismatike , and perturber of the peace . The said Bull was mangled and rent in pieces , according to the petition of the Vniuersity , by Decree of Court vpon the 10. of Iune , 1408. Tenne dayes after , the Court rising at eleuen in the morning , two Bul-bearers of the said excōmuncaitorie censure vnderwent ignominious punishment vpon the Palace or great Hall stayres . From thence were lead to the Lovure in such manner as they had beene brought from thence before : drawen in two tumbrells , cladde in coates of painted linnen , wore paper-mytres on their heads , were proclaimed with sound of trumpet , and euery where disgraced with publike derision . So little reckoning was made of the Popes thundering canons in those daies . And what would they haue done , if the said Buls had imported sentence of deposition against King Charles ? The French Church assembled at Tours in the yeere 1510. decreed that Lewis XII . might with safe conscience contemne the abusiue Bulls , and vniust censures of Pope Julius the II. and by armes might withstand the Popes vsurpations , in case hee should proceed to excommunicate or depose the King. More , by a Council holden at Pisa , this Lewis declared the Pope to be fallen from the Popedome , and coyned crowns with a stamp of this inscription , I wil destroy the name of Babylon . To this the L. of Perron makes answer , that all this was done by the French , as acknowledging these iars to haue sprung not from the fountaine of Religion , but from passion of state . Wherin he condemneth Pope Iulius , for giuing so great scope vnto his publike censures , as to serue his ambition , and not rather to aduance Religion . Hee secretly teacheth vs besides , that when the Pope vndertakes to depose the King of France , then the French are to sit as Iudges concerning the lawfulnesse or vnlawfulnesse of the cause ; and in case they shall finde the cause to be vnlawfull , then to disannull his iudgements , and to scoffe at his thunderbolts . Iohn d' Albret King of Nauarre , whose Realme was giuen by the foresaid Pope to Ferdinand King of Arragon , was also wrapped and entangled with strict bands of deposition . Now if the French had been touched with no better feeling of affection to their King , then the subiects of Nauarre were to the Nauarrois ; doubtlesse France had sought a newe Lord , by vertue of the Popes ( as the L. Cardinal himselfe doth acknowledge and confesse ) vniust sentence . But behold , to make the said sentence against Iohn d' Albret seeme the lesse contrary to equity , the L. Cardinal pretends , the Popes donation was not indeede the principall cause , howsoeuer Ferdinand himselfe made it his pretence . But his Lor. giues this for the principall cause : that Iohn d' Albret had quitted his alliance made with condition ; that in case the Kings of Nauarre should infringe the said alliance , and breake the league , then the Kingdome of Nauarre should returne to the Crowne of Arragon . This condition , between Kings neuer made , and without all shew of probabilitie , serueth to none other purpose from the Cardinals mouth , but onely to insinuate and worke a perrswasion in his King , that he hath no right nor lawfull pretension to the Crowne of Nauarre : and whatsoeuer hee nowe holdeth in the said Kingdome of Nauarre , is none of his owne , but by vsurpation and vnlawfull possession . Thus his Lordshippe French-borne , makes himselfe an Aduocate for the Spanish King , against his owne King , and King of the French : who shall bee faine , as he ought ( if this Aduocats plea may take place ) to draw his title and style of King of Nauarre out of his Royall titles , and to acknowledge that all the great endeauours of his predecessors to recouer the said Kingdome , were dishonourable and vniust . Is it possible , that in the very heart and head Citie of France , a spirit & tongue so licentious can be brooked ? What , shall so great blasphemy ( as it were ) of the Kings freehold , be powred forth in so honourable an assembly , without punishment or fyne ? what , without any contradiction for the Kings right , and on the Kings behalfe ? I may perhaps confesse the indignitie might bee the better borne , and the pretence aledged might passe for a poore excuse , if it serued his purpose neuer so little . For how doth all this touch or come neere the question ? in which the Popes vsurpation in the deposing of Kings , and the resolution of the French in resisting this tyrannicall practise , is the proper issue of the cause : both which points are neuer a whit more of the lesse consequence and importance , howsoeuer Ferdinand in his owne iustification stood vpon the foresaid pretence . Thus much is confessed , and we aske no more : Pope Iulius tooke the Kingdome from the one , and gaue it vnto the other : the French thereupon resisted the Pope , and declared him to bee fallen from the Papacie . This noble spirit and courage of the French , in maintaining the dignitie and honour of their Kings Crownes , bredde those auncient customes , which in the sequence of many ages haue beene obserued and kept in vse . This for one : That no Legate of the Pope , nor any of his rescripts nor mandates , are admitted and receiued in France , without licence from the King : and vnlesse the Legate impart his faculties to the Kings Atturney Generall , to be perused and verified in Court of Parliament : where they are to be tyed by certaine modifications & restrictions , vnto such points as are not derogatorie from the Kings right , from the liberties of the Church , and from the ordinances of the Kingdome . When Cardinal Balva , contrary to this ancient forme , entred France in the yeare 1484. and there without leaue of the King did execute the Office , and speed certaine Acts of the Popes Legat ; the Court vpon motion made by the Kings Atturney Generall , decreed a Commission , to be informed against him by two Councellors of the said Court , and inhibited his further proceeding to vse any faculty or power of the Popes Legate , vpon paine of beeing proclaimed rebell . In the yeare 1561. Iohannes Tanquerellus Batchelor in Diuinitie , by order of the Court was condemned to make open confession , that hee had indiscreetly and rashly without consideration defended this proposition , The Pope is the Vicar of Christ , a Monarke that hath power both spirituall and secular , and he may depriue Princes , which rebel against his cōmandements , of their dignities . Which proposition , howsoeuer he protested that he had propounded the same onely to be argued , and not iudicially to be determined in the affirmatiue , Tanquerellus neuerthelesse was compelled openly to recant . Here the L. Cardinal answers ; The historie of Tanquerellus is from the matter , because his proposition treateth neither of heresie nor of infidelitie : but I answer , the said proposition treateth of both , for as much as it maketh mention of disobedience to the Pope . For I suppose he will not deny , that whosoeuer shall stand out in heresie , contrary to the Popes monitorie proceedings , hee shall shewe but poore and simple obedience to the Pope . Moreouer , the case is cleare by the former examples , that no Pope will suffer his power to cast downe Kings , to bee restrained vnto the cause of heresie and infidelitie . In the heate of the last warres , raised by that holy-prophane League , admonitory Buls were sent by Pope Gregory 14. from Rome , Anno 1591. By these Bulls King Henry 4. as an heretike and relaps , was declared incapable of the Crowne of France , and his Kingdome was exposed to hauock and spoile . The Court of Parliament beeing assembled at Tours the 5. of August , decreed the said admonitorie Bulls to bee cancelled , torne in peices , and cast into a great fire by the hand of the publike executioner . The Arrest it selfe or Decree is of this tenor : The Court duely pondering and approouing the concluding and vnanswearable reasons of the Kings Atturney General , hath declared , and by these present doth declare , the admonitorie Bulls giuen at Rome the 1. of March 1591. to be of no validitie , abusiue , seditious , damnable , full of impietie and impostures , contrarie to the holie decrees , rights , franchises , and liberties of the French Church : doth ordaine the Copies of the said Bulls , sealed with the seale of Marsilius Landrianus , and signed Septilius Lamprius , to be rent in peices by the publike executioner , and by him to be burnt in a great fire to be made for such purpose , before the great gates of the common Hall or Palace , &c. Then euen then the L. of Perron was firme for the better part , and stood for his King against Gregorie the Pope , notwithstanding the crime of heresie pretended against Henrie his Lord. All the former examples by vs alleadged , are drawne out of the times after Schooles of Diuinitie were established in France . For I thought good to bound my selfe within those dooles and limits of time , which the L. Card. himselfe hath set . Who goeth not sincerely to worke and in good earnest , where he telleth vs there bee three instances ( as if we had no more ) obiected against Papall power , to remooue Kings out of their chaires of State : by name , the example of Philip the Faire , of Lewis XII . and of Tanquerellus . For in very truth all the former examples by vs produced , are no lesse pregnant and euident , howsoeuer the L. Cardinal hath beene pleased to conceale them all for feare of hurting his cause . Nay , France euen in the dayes of her sorest seruitude , was neuer vnfurnished of great Diuines , by whom this vsurped pow-of the Pope , ouer the Temporalties and Crownes of Kings , hath been vtterly misliked and condemned . Robert Earle of Flanders was commanded by Pope Paschall 2. to persecute with fire and sword the Clergie of Leige , who then adhered and stood to the cause of the Emperour Henry 4. whom the Pope had ignominiously deposed . Robert by the Popes order and command , was to handle the Clergie of Leige in like sort as before he had serued the Clergy of Cambray , who by the said Earle had beene cruelly stript both of goods and life . The Pope promised the said Earle and his army pardon of their sinnes for the said execution . The Clergie of Leige addressed answer to the Pope at large . They cried out vpon the Church of Rome , and called her Babylon . Told the Pope home , that God hath commanded to giue vnto Cesar that which is Cesars : that euery soule must be subiect vnto the superiour powers : that no man is exempted out of this precept : and that euery oath of allegiance is to be kept inuiolable : yea , that hereof they themselues are not ignorant , in as much as they by a new schism , and newe traditions , making a separation and rent of the priesthood from the Kingdome , doe promise to absolue of periurie , such as haue perfidiously forsworne themselues against their King. And whereas by way of despight and in opprobrious manner , they were excommunicated by the Pope , they gaue his Holines to vnderstand , that Dauids heart had vttered a good matter , but Paschals heart had spewed vp sordid and railing words , like old baudes and spinsters or websters of linnen , when they scold and brawle one with an other . Finally , they reiected his Papall excommunication , as a sentence giuen without discretion . This was the voice and free speech of that Clergie , in the life time of their noble Emperour . But after he was thrust out of the Empire by the rebellion of his owne sonne , instigated and stirred vp thereunto by the Popes perswasion and practise , and was brought vnto a miserable death ; it is no matter of wonder , that for the safegard of their life , the said Clergie were driuen to sue vnto the Pope for their pardon . Hildebert Bishop of Caenomanum vpon the riuer of Sartre , liuing vnder the raigne of King Philip the first , affirmeth in his Epistles 40. and 75. that Kings are to be admonished and instructed , rather then punished : to be dealt with by counsell , rather then by commaund , by doctrine and instruction , rather then by correction . For no such sword belongeth to the Church , because the sword of the Church is Ecclesiasticall discipline , and nothing else . Bernard writeth to Pope Eugenius after this manner : Whosoeuer they be that are of this mind and opinion , shal neuer be able to make proofe , that any one of the Apostles did euer sit in qualitie of Iudge or Diuider of lands . I reade where they haue stood to be iudged , but neuer where they sate downe to giue iudgement . Againe , Your authoritie stretcheth vnto crimes , not vnto possessions : because you haue receiued the keies of the kingdome of heauen , not in regard of possessions , but of crimes , to keepe all that pleade by couin or collusion , and not lawfull possessors , out of the heauenly kingdome . A little after : These base things of the earth are iudged by the Kings and Princes of this world : wherefore doe you thrust your sickle into an others haruest ? wherefore doe you incraach and intrude vpon an others limits ? Elsewhere . The Apostles are directly forbid to make themselues Lords and rulers . Goe thou then , and beeing a Lord vsurpe Apostleship , or beeing an Apostle vsurpe Lordship . If thou needes wilt haue both , doubtlesse thou shalt haue neither . Iohannes Maior Doctor of Paris : The Soueraigne Bishop hath no temporall authoritie ouer Kings . The reason . Because it followes ( the contrarie being once granted ) that Kings are the Popes vassals . Now let other men iudge , whether hee that hath power to dipossesse Kings of all their Temporalties , hath not likewise authoritie ouer their Temporalties . The same Author : The Pope hath no manner of title ouer the French or Spanish Kings in temporall matters . Where it is further added , That Pope Innocent 3. hath beene pleased to testifie , that Kings of France in Temporall causes doe acknowledge no superiour . For so the Pope excused himselfe to a certaine Lord of Montpellier , who in stead of suing to the King , had petitioned to the Pope for a dispensation for his bastard . But perhaps ( as be speaketh ) it will be alledged out of the glosse , that he acknowledgeth no superiour by fact , and yet ought by right . But I tell you the glosse is an Aurelian glosse , which marres the text . Amongst other arguments , Maior brings this for one : This opinion ministreth matter vnto Popes , to take away an others Empire by force and violence : which the Pope shall neuer bring to passe , as we reade of Boniface 8. against Philip the Faire . Saith besides , That from hence proceede warres , in time of which many outragious mischeifes are done , and that Gerson calls them egregious flatterers by whom such opinion is maintained . In the same place Maior denies that Childeric was deposed by Pope Zacharie : The word , He deposed , saith Maior , is not so to be vnderstood , as it is taken at the first blush or sight ; but he deposed , is thus expounded in the glosse , Hee gaue his consent vnto those by whom he was deposed . Iohn of Paris : Were it graunted that Christ was armed with Temporall power , yet he committed no such power to Peter . A little after : The power of Kings is the highest power vpon earth : in Temporall causes it hath no superiour power aboue it selfe , no more then the Pope hath in spirituall matters . This author saith indeede , the Pope hath power to excommunicate the King ; but he speaketh not of any power in the Pope to put down the King from his regall dignity and authority . He onely saith , When a Prince is once excommunicated , he may accidentally or by occasion be deposed : because his precedent excommunication , incites the people to disarme him of all secular dignity & power . The same Iohn on the other side holdeth opinion ; that in the Emperour there is inuested a power to depose the Pope , in case the Pope shall abuse his power . Almainus Doctor of the Sorbonic schoole : Jt is essentiall in the Laye-power to inflict ciuill punishment , as death , banishment , and priuation or losse of goods . But according to diuine institution , the power Ecclesiasticall can lay no such punishment vpon delinquents : nay more , not lay in prison , as to some Doctors it seemeth probable : but stretcheth and reacheth onely to spirituall punishment , as namely to excommunication : all other punishments inflicted by the spirituall power , are meerely by the Lawe positiue . If then Ecclesiasticall power by Gods Lawe hath no authoritie to depriue any priuate man of his goods ; how dares the Pope and his flatterers build their power to depriue Kings of their scepters vpon the word of God ? The same author in an other place : Be it graunted that Constantine had power to giue the Empire vnto the Pope ; yet is it not hereupon to be inferred , that Popes haue authority ouer the Kingdome of France ; because that Kingdom was neuer subiect vnto Constantine . For the King of Fraunce neuer had any superiour in Temporall matters . A little after : It is not in any place to be found , that God hath giuen the Pope power to make and vnmake Temporall Kings . He maintaineth elsewhere , that Zacharie did not depose Childeric , but onely consented to his deposing ; and so deposed him not as by authoritie . In the same booke , taking vp the words of Occam , whome hee styles the Doctor : The Emperour is the Popes Lord in things Temporall , and the Pope calls him Lord , as it is witnessed in the body of the Text. The Lord Cardinall hath dissembled and concealed these words of Doctor Almainus , with many like places : and hath been pleased to alledge Almainus reciting Occams authoritie , in stead of quoting Almainus himselfe in those passages , where hee speaketh as out of his owne opinion , and in his owne words . A notable peice of slie and cunning conueiance . For what heresie may not be fathered and fastened vpon S. Augustine , or S. Hierome , if they should bee deemed to approoue all the passages which they alledge out of other authors . And that is the reason wherfore the L. Cardinal doth not alledge his testimonies whole and perfect , as they are couched in their proper texts , but clipt and curtaild . Thus he dealeth euen in the first passage or testimonie of Almainus ; he brings it in mangled and pared : hee hides and conceales the words added by Almainus , to contradict & crosse the words going before . For Almainus makes this addition and supply ; Howsoeuer some other Doctors doe stand for the negatiue , and teach the Pope hath power onely to declare that Kings and Princes are to bee deposed . And so much appeareth by this reason ; because this ample and Soueraigne power of the Pope , might giue him occasion to bee puft vp with great pride , and the same fulnesse of power might prooue extreamely hurtfull to the subiects , &c. The same Almainus brings in Occams opinion in expresse tearmes deciding the question , and there ioynes his owne opinion with Occams . The Doctors opinion , saith Almainus , doth simply carrie the most probabilitie ; that a Pope hath no power , neither by excommunication , nor by any other meanes , to dedepose a Prince from his Imperiall and Royall dignitie . And a little before , hauing maintained the Greeke Empire was neuer transported by the Pope to the Germaines , and that when the Pope crownes the Emperour , he doth not giue him the Empire , no more then the Archbishop of Reims when he crownes the King of France , doth giue him the Kingdome ; he drawes this conclusion according to Occams opinion : I denie that an Emperour is bound by oath to promise the Pope allegiance . On the other side , if the Pope hold any Temporall possessions , hee is bound to sweare allegiance vnto the Emperour , and to pay him tribute . The said Occam alledged by Almainus doth further auerre , that Iustinian was acknowledged by the Pope for his superiour in Temporall causes : for as much as diuerse lawes which the Pope is bound to keep and obserue , were enacted by Iustinian ; as by name the law of prescription for an hundred yeeres : which law standeth yet in force against the Bishop of Rome . And to the ende that all men may cleerely see , how great distance there is betweene Occams opinion and the L. Cardinals , who towards the ende of his Oration , exhorts his hearers at no hand to dissent from the Pope ; take you here a viewe of Occams owne words , as they are alleadged by Almainus : The Doctor assoyles the arguments of Pope Jnnocent , by which the Pope would prooue out of these words of Christ , Whatsoeuer thou shalt bind , &c. that fulnes of power in Temporall matters , belongeth to the Soueraigne Bishop . For Innocent saith , Whatsoeuer , excepteth nothing . But Occam assoyles Innocents authoritie , as not onely false , but also hereticall ; and saith withal , that many things are spoken by Jnnocent , which by his leaue sauour and smell of heresie , &c. The L. Cardinal with lesse fidelitie alledgeth two places out of Thomas his Summe . The first , in the Second of his Second , Quest . 10. Art. 10. in the bodie of the Article . In which place ( let it be narrowly examined ) Thomas will easily be found to speake , not of the subiection of beleeuing subiects vnder Infidel Kings , as the Lord Cardinall pretendeth , but of beleeuing seruants that liue vnder Masters , whether Iewes or Infidels . As when a Iew keepeth seruants which professe Iesus Christ ; or as when some of the faithfull kept in Caesars house : who are not considered by Thomas as they were subiects of the Empire , but as they were seruants of the family . The other place is taken out of Quest . 11. and 2. art . in the body of the article : where no such matter as the L. Cardinal alledgeth can be found . With like fidelitie he taketh Gerson in hand : who indeed in his booke of Ecclesiasticall power , and 12. Consider . doth affirme , When the abuse of secular power redoundeth to manifest impugning of the faith , and blaspheming of the Creator ; then shall it not bee amisse to haue recourse vnto the last branch of this 12. Consider . where , in such case as aforesaid , a certain regitiue , directiue , regulatiue , and ordinatiue authoritie is committed to the Ecclesiasticall power . His very words : which make no mention at all of deposing , or of any compulsiue power ouer Soueraigne Princes . For that forme of rule and gouernement whereof Gerson speaketh , is exercised by Ecclesiasticall censures & excommunications ; not by losse of goods , of Kingdoms , or of Empires . This place then is wrested by the L. Cardinall to a contrary sense . Neither should his Lordship haue omitted , that Gerson , in the question of Kings subiection in Temporall matters , or of the dependance of their Crowns vpon the Popes power , excepteth alwaies the King of France : witnesse that which Gerson a little before the place alleadged by the Cardinal hath plainely affirmed : Now since Peters time , saith Gerson , all Imperiall , Regall , and Secular power is not immediately to drawe vertue and strength from the Soueraigne Bishop : as in this manner the most Christian King of France hath no Superiour , nor acknowledgeth any such vpon the face of the earth . Now here need no great sharpenes of wit for the searching out of this deepe mysterie ; that if the Pope hath power to giue or take away Crownes for any cause or any pretended occasion whatsoeuer , the Crowne of France must needs depend vpon the Pope . But for as much as we are now hitte in with Gerson , we will examine the L. Cardinals allegations towards the ende of his Oration , taken out of Gersons famous Oration made before Charles 6. for the Vniuersitie of Paris : where he brings in Gerson to affirme , That killing a Tyrant is a sacrifice acceptable to God. But Gerson ( let it be diligently noted ) there speaketh not in his owne person : hee there brings in sedition speaking the words . Of which words vttered by sedition , and other like speeches , you shall now heare what iudgement Gerson himselfe hath giuen . When sedition had spoken with such a furious voice , I turned away my face as if I had beene smitten with death , to shew that I was not able to endure her madnesse any longer . And indeede when dissimulation on the one side , and sedition on the other , had suggested the deuises of two contrary extremes , he brings forth Discretion as a Iudge , keeping the meane betweene both extreames , and vttering those words which the L. Cardinall alleadgeth against himselfe . If the head , ( saith Gerson ) or some other member of the ciuill body , should grow to so desperate a passe , that it would gulpe and swallowe downe the deadly poison of tyrannie ; euery member in his place , with all power possible for him to raise by expedient meanes , and such as might preuent a greater inconuenience , should set himselfe against so madde a purpose , and so deadly practise : For if the head be grieued with some light paine , it is not fit for the hand to smite the head : no , that were but a foolish and a madde part . Nor is the hand forthwith to chop off or separate the head from the bodie , but rather to cure the head with good speach and other meanes , like a skilfull and wise Physitian . Yea nothing would be more cruell or more voide of reason , then to seeke to stoppe the strong and violent streame of tyranny by sedition . These words , me thinke , doe make verie strongly and expressely against butchering euen of Tyrannicall Kings . And whereas a little after the said passage , he teacheth to expell Tyrannie , he hath not a word of expelling the Tyrant , but onely of breaking and shaking off the yoke of Tyranny . Yet for all that , hee would not haue the remedies for the repressing of Tyrannie , to bee fetcht from the Pope , who presumeth to degrade Kings , but from Philosophers , Lawyers , Diuines , and personages of good conuersation . It appeareth now by all that hath been said before , that whereas Gerson in the 7 Considerat . against Flatterers , doth affirme : Whensoeuer the Prince doth manifestly pursue and prosecute his naturall subiects , and shew himselfe obstinately bent with notorious iniustice , to vexe them of set purpose , and with full consent , so farre as to the fact ; then this rule and law of Nature doth take place , It is lawfull to resist and repell force by force ; and that sentence of Seneca , There is no sacrifice more acceptable to God , then a Tyrant offered in sacrifice ; the words , Doth take place , are so to be vnderstood , as hee speaketh in an other passage , to wit , with or amongst seditious persons . Or else the words , doth take place , doe onely signifie , is put in practise . And so Gerson there speaketh not as out of his owne iudgement . His Lordshippe also should not haue balked and left out Sigebertus , who with more reason might haue passed for French , then Thomas and Occam , whom he putteth vpon vs for French. Sigebertus in his Chronicle vpon the yere 1088. speaking of the Emperours deposing by the Pope , hath words of this tenor : This heresie was not crept out of the shell in those dayes , that his Priests , who hath said to the King , Apostata , and maketh an hypocrite to rule for the sinnes of the people , should teach the people they owe no subiection vnto wicked Kings , nor any allegiance , notwithstanding they haue taken the oath of allegiance . Now after the L. Card. hath coursed in this manner through the histories of the last ages ( which in case they all made for his purpose , doe lacke the weight of authority ) in stead of searching the will of God in the sacred Oracles of his word , and standing vpon examples of the ancient Church ; at last leauing the troope of his owne allegations , he betakes himselfe to the sharpening and rebating of the points of his aduersaries weapons . For the purpose , he brings in his aduersaries , the champions of Kings Crownes , and makes them to speake out of his owne mouth ( for his L. saith it will be obiected ) after this manner : Jt may come to passe , that Popes either carried with passion , or misledde by sinister information , may without iust cause fasten vpon Kings the imputation of heresie or apostasie . Then for King-deposers he frames this answer : That by heresie they vnderstand notorious heresie , and formerly condemned by sentence of the Church . Moreouer , in case the Pope hath erred in the fact , it is the Clergies part adhering to their King , to make remonstrances vnto the Pope , and to require the cause may be referred to the iudgement of a full Councill , the French Church then and there beeing present . Now in this answer , the L. Cardinall is of an other minde then Bellarmine his brother Cardinall . For he goes thus farre : That a Prince condemned by vniust sentence of the Pope , ought neuertheles to quit his Kingdome , and that his Pastors vniust sentence shall not redound to his detriment ; prouided that he giue way to the said sentence , and shew himselfe not refractarie , but stay the time in patience , vntill the holy Father shall renounce his error , and reuoke his foresaid vniust sentence . In which case these two materiall points are to be presupposed . The one , That he who now hath seized the Kingdome of the Prince displaced , will forthwith ( if the Pope shall solicite and intercede ) return the Kingdome to the hand of the late possessor . The other , That in the interim the Prince vniustly deposed , shall not neede to feare the bloodie murderers mercilesse blade and weapon . But on the other side , the Popes power of so large a size , as Bellarmine hath shaped , is no whit pleasing to the L. Cardinals eie . For in case the King should be vniustly deposed by the Pope not well informed , he is not of the mind the Kingdome should stoope to the Popes behests , but will rather haue the Kingdom to deale by remonstrance , and to referre the cause vnto the Council . Wherein hee makes the Council to be of more absolute and supreame authoritie then the Pope : a straine to which the holy Father will neuer lend his eare . And yet doubtles , the Councill required in this case must be vniuersall ; wherein the French , for so much as they stand firme for their King and his cause , can be no Iudges : and in that regard the L. Cardinal requireth onely the presence of the French Church . Who seeth not here into what pickle the French cause is brought by this meanes ? The Bishops of Italie forsooth , of Spaine , of Sicilie , of Germany , the subiects of Soueraignes many times at professed or priuy enmitie with France , shall haue the cause compromitted & referred to their iudgment , whether the Kingdome of France shall driue out her Kings , and shall kindle the flames of seditious troubles , in the very heart and bowels of the Realme . But is it not possible , that a King may lacke the loue of his owne subiects , and they taking the vantage of that occasion , may put him to his trumps in his owne Kingdome ? Is it not possible , that calumniations whereby a credulous Pope hath beene seduced , may in like manner deceiue some great part of a credulous people ? Is it not possible , that one part of the people may cleaue to the Popes faction , an other may hold and stand out for the Kings rightfull cause , and ciuil warres may be kindled by the splene of these two sides ? Is it not possible , that his Holinesse will not rest in the remonstrances of the French , & will yet further pursue his cause ? And whereas nowe a dayes a Generall Councill cannot be held , except it bee called and assembled by the Popes authority ; is it credible , the Pope will take order for the conuocation of a Council , by whom he shall be iudged ? And how can the Pope be President in a Council , where himselfe is the partie impleaded ? and to whom the sifting of his owne sentence is referred , as it were to committies , to examine whether it was denounced according to Law , or against Iustice ? But in the meane time , whilest all these remonstrances and addresses of the Council are on foote ; behold , the Royall Maiesty of the King hangeth as it were by loose gimmals , and must stay the iudgement of the Council to whom it is referred . Well : what if the Councill should happe to be two or three yeeres in assembling , and to continue or hold eighteene yeeres , like the Council of Trent ; should not poore France , I beseech you , be reduced to a very bad plight ? should shee not be in a very wise and warme taking ? To be short ; His Lordships whole speech for the vntying of this knot , not onely surmounteth possibility , but is stuft with ridiculous toyes . This I make manifest by his addition in the same passage : If the Pope deceiued in fact , shal rashly and vniustly declare the King to be an heretike ; then the Popes declaration shal not be seconded with actuall deposition , vnles the Realme shall consent vnto the Kings deposing . What needes any man to be instructed in this doctrine ? Who doth not knowe , that a King , so long as he is vpheld and maintained in his Kingdome by his people , cannot actually and effectually bee deposed from his Throne ? Hee that speaketh such language and phrase , in effect saith , and saith no more then this : A King is neuer depriued of his Crowne , so long as he can keep his Crowne on his head : a King is neuer turn'd and stript naked , so long as hee can keepe his cloathes on his backe : a King is neuer deposed , so long as he can make the stronger partie and side against his enemies : in breife , a King is King , and shal stil remaine King , so long as he can hold the possession of his Kingdome , and sit fast in his Chaire of Estate . Howbeit , let vs here by the way , take notice of these words vttered by his Lordship : That for the deposing of a King , the consent of the people must be obtained : For by these words the people are exalted aboue the King , and are made the Iudges of the Kings deposing . But here is yet a greater matter : For that Popes may erre in faith , it is acknowledged by Popes themselues : For some of them haue condemned Pope Honorius for a Monothelite : S. Hierome , and S. Hilarius , and S. Athanasius doe testifie , that Pope Liberius started aside , and subscribed to Arrianisme : Pope Iohn 23. was condemned in the Council of Constance , for maintaining there is neither hell nor heauen . Diuerse other Popes haue been tainted with error in faith . If therefore any Pope hereticall in himselfe , shall depose an Orthodoxe King for heresie ; can it be imagined , that he which boasts himselfe to beare all diuine and humane lawes in the priuy coffer or casket of his breast , will stoope to the remonstrances of the French , and vayle to the reasons which they shall propound , though neuer so iustifiable , and of neuer so great validitie ? And how can he , that may be infected with damnable heresie ( when himselfe is not alwaies free from heresie ) be a iudge of heresie in a King ? In this question some are of opinion , that as a man , the Pope may fall into error , but not as Pope . Very good : I demand then vpon the matter , wherefore the Pope doth not instruct and reforme the man ? or wherefore the man doth not require the Popes instructions ? But whether a King be deposed by that man the Pope , or by that Pope the man , is it not all one ? is he not deposed ? Others affirme , the Pope may erre in a question of the fact , but not in a question of the right . An egregious gullery and imposture . For if he may bee ignorant whether Iesus Christ died for our sinnes , doubtles he may also be to seeke , whether we should repose all our trust and assured confidence in the death of Christ . Consider with me the Prophets of olde : They were all inspired and taught of God , to admonish and reprooue the Kings of Iudah and Israel : they neither erred in matter of fact , nor in point of right : they were as farre from being blinded and fetcht ouer by deceitfull calumniations , as from beeing seduced by the painted shew of corrupt and false doctrine . As they neuer trode awry in matter of faith ; so they neuer whetted the edge of their tongue or style against the faultles . Had it not beene a trimme deuice in their times , to say , that as Esay and as Daniel they might haue sunke into heresie , but not as Prophets ? For doubtlesse in this case , that Esay would haue taken counsell of the Prophet which was himselfe . To bee short ; If Kings are onely so long to be taken for Kings , vntill they shall be declared heretikes , and shall be deposed by the Pope ; they continually stand in extreame danger , to vndergoe a very heauy and vniust sentence . Their safest way were to know nothing , and to beleeue by proxie ; least , if they should happen to talke of God , or to thinke of religion , they should be drawne for heretikes into the Popes Inquisition . All the examples hitherto produced by the L. Cardinall on a rowe , are of a latter date , they lacke weight , are drawne from the time of bondage , and make the Popes themselues witnesses in their owne cause . They descant not vpon the point of deposition , but onely strike out and sound the notes of excommunication and interdiction , which make nothing at all to the musicke of the question . And therefore he telleth vs ( in kindnesse as I take it ) more oftentimes then once or twice , that he speaketh onely of the fact ; as one that doth acknowledge himselfe to be out of the right . Hee relates things done , but neuer what should bee done : which , as the Iudicious know , is to teach nothing . The second Jnconuenience examined . THE second Inconuenience like to growe , ( as the Lord Cardinall seemeth to be halfe afraid ) if the Article of the third Estate might haue passed with approbation , is couched in these words : Lay-men shall by authoritie be strengthened with power , to iudge in matters of Religion ; as also to determine the doctrine comprised in the said Article to haue requisite conformitie with Gods word : yea they shall haue it in their hands to compell Ecclesiastics by necessitie , to sweare , preach , and teach the opinion of the one side , as also by Sermons and publike writings to impugne the other . This inconuenience hee aggrauateth with swelling words , and breaketh out into these vehement exclamations : O reproach , O scandall , O gate set open to a world of heresies . He therefore laboureth both by reasons , & by autorities of holy Scripture , to make such vsurped power of Laics , a fowle , shamefull , and odious practise . In the whole , his Lordship toyles himselfe in vaine , and maketh suppositions of castles in the aire . For in preferring this Article , the third Estate haue born themselues not as iudges or vmpires , but altogether as petitioners : requesting the said Article might be receiued into the number of the Parliament bookes , to bee presented vnto the King and his Counsell , vnto whome in all humilitie they referred the iudgement of the said Article ; conceiuing all good hope the Clergie and Nobilitie would be pleased to ioyne for the furtherance of their humble petition . They were not so ignorant of State-matters , or so vnmindfull of their owne places and charges , to beare themselues in hand , that a petition put vp and preferred by the third Estate , can carrie the force of a Lawe or Statute , so long as the other two Orders withstand the same , and so long as the King himselfe holds backe his Royall consent . Besides , the said Article was not propounded as a point of religious doctrine ; but for euer after to remaine and continue a fundamentall Lawe of the Commonwealth and State it selfe , the due care whereof was put into their hands , and committed to their trust . If the King had ratified the said Article with Royall consent , and had commanded the Clergie to put in execution the contents thereof ; it had beene their duty to see the Kings will and pleasure fulfilled , as they are subiects bound to giue him aide in all things , which may any way serue to procure the safetie of his life , and the tranquility of his Kingdome . Which if the Clergie had performed to the vttermost of their power , they had not shewed obedience as vnderlings , vnto the third Estate , but vnto the King alone : by whome such commaund had beene imposed , vpon suggestion of his faithfull subiects , made the more watchfull by the negligence of the Clergie ; whom they perceiue to be linked with stricter bands vnto the Pope , then they are vnto their King. Here then the Cardinall fights with meere shadowes , and mooues a doubt whereof his aduersaries haue not so much as once thought in a dreame . But yet , according to his great dexteritie and nimblenesse of spirit , by this deuice he cunningly takes vpon him to giue the King a lesson with more libertie : making semblance to direct his masked Oration to the Deputies of the people , when he shooteth in effect , and pricketh at his King , the Princes also and Lords of his Counsell , whom the Cardinall compriseth vnder the name of Laics ; whose iudgment ( it is not vnlikely ) was apprehended much better by the Clergy , then the iudgement of the third Estate . Now these are the men whom he tearmeth intruders into other mens charges , and such as open a gate for I wot not how many legions of heresies , to rush into the Church . For if it be proper to the Clergie and their Head , to iudge in this cause of the Right of Kings ; then the King himselfe , his Princes , and Nobilitie , are debarred and wiped of all iudgement in the same cause , no lesse then the representatiue body of the people . Well then , the L ▪ Cardinall showres downe like haile sundry places and testimonies of Scripture , where the people are commaunded to haue their Pastors in singular loue , and to beare them all respects of due obseruance . Be it so ; yet are the said passages of Scripture no barre to the people , for their vigilant circumspection , to preserue the life and Crown of their Prince , against all the wicked enterprises of men stirred vp by the Clergie , who haue their Head out of the Kingdom , and hold themselues to be none of the Kings subiects : a thing neuer spoken by the sacrificing Priests and Prelates , mentioned in the passages alleadged by the Lord Cardinall . He likewise produceth two Christian Emperours , Constantine and Valentinian by name ; the first refusing to meddle with iudgement in Episcopall causes : the other forbearing to iudge of subtile Questions in Diuinity , with protestation , that Hee would neuer be so curious , to diue into the streames , or sound the bottome of so deepe matters . But who doth not knowe , that working and prouiding for the Kings indemnity and safetie , is neither Episcopall cause , nor matter of curious and subtile inquisition ? The same answer meets with all the rest of the places produced by the L. Cardinal out of the Fathers . And that one for example , out of Gregory Nazianzenus , is not cited by the Cardinall with faire dealing . For Gregorie doth not boord the Emperour himselfe , but his Deputie or L. President , on this manner : For we also are in authoritie and place of a Ruler , we haue command aswell as your selfe : whereas the L. Cardinal with fowle play , turnes the place in these termes , We also are Emperours . Which words can beare no such interpretation , as well because he to whom the Bishop then spake , was not of Imperiall dignitie ; as also because if the Bishop himselfe , a Bishop of so small a citie as Nazianzum , had qualified himselfe Emperour , he should haue passed all the bounds of modestie , and had shewed himselfe arrogant aboue measure . For as touching subiection due to Christian Emperours , hee freely acknowledgeth a little before , that himselfe and his people are subiect vnto the superiour powers , yea bound to pay them tribute . The history of the same Gregories life doth testifie , that he was drawne by the Arrians before the Consuls iudgement seate , and from thence returned acquitted , without either stripes or any other kind of contumelious entreatie and vse : yet now at last vp starts a Prelate , who dares make this good Father vaunt himselfe to bee an Emperour . It is willingly granted , that Emperours neuer challenged , neuer arrogated , to be Soueraigne Iudges in controuersies of doctrine and faith ; neuertheles it is clearer then the Sunnes light at high noone , that for moderation at Synods , for determinations and orders established in Councils , and for the discipline of the Church , they haue made a good and a full vse of their Imperiall authoritie . The 1. Council held at Constantinople , beares this title or inscription ; The dedication of the holy Synode to the most religious Emperour Theodosius the Great , to whose will and pleasure they haue submitted these Canons by them addressed and established in Council . And there they also beseech the Emperour , to confirme and approoue the said Canons . The like hath bin done by the Councill of Trullo , by whome the Canons of the fift and sixt Councils were put forth and published . This was not done , because Emperours tooke vpon them to bee infallible Iudges of doctrine ; but onely that Emperours might see and iudge , whether Bishops ( who feele the pricke of ambition as other men doe ) did propound nothing in their Conuocations and Consultations , but most of all in their Determinations , to vndermine the Emperours authoritie , to disturbe the tranquilitie of the Commonwealth , and to crosse the determinations of precedent Councils . Now to take the cognizance of such matters out of the Kings hand or power ; what is it but euen to transforme the King into a standing image , to wring and wrest him out of all care of himselfe and his Kingly charge , yea to bring him downe to this basest condition , to become onely an executioner , and ( which I scorne to speake ) the vnhappie hangman of the Clergies will , without any further cognizance , not so much as of matters which most neerely touch himselfe , and his Royall estate ? I graunt it is for Diuinitie Schooles , to iudge how farre the power of the Keyes doth stretch : I graunt againe , that Clerics both may , and ought also to display the colours and ensignes of their censures against Princes , who violating their publike and solemne oath , do raise and make open war against Iesus Christ : I graunt yet againe , that in this case they need not admit Laics to be of their counsell , nor allowe them any scope or libertie of iudgement . Yet all this makes no barre to Clerics , for extending the power of their keies , many times a whole degree further then they ought ; and when they are pleased , to make vse of their said power , to depriue the people of their goods , or the Prince of his Crowne : all this doth not hinder Prince or people from taking care for the preseruation of their owne rights and estates , nor from requiring Clerics to shewe their cards , and produce their Charts , and to make demonstration by Scripture , that such power as they assume and challenge , is giuen them from God. For to leaue the Pope absolute Iudge in the same cause wherein hee is a party , and ( which is the strongest rampier and bulwarke , yea the most glorious and eminent point of his domination ) to arme him with power to vnhorse Kings out of their feates ; what is it else but euen to draw them into a state of despaire , for euery winning the day , or preuailing in their honourable and rightfull cause ? It is moreouer graunted , if a King shall commaund any thing directly contrary to Gods word , and tending to the subuerting of the Church ; that Clerics in this case ought not onely to dispense with subiects for their obedience , but also expressely to forbid their obedience : For it is alwaies better to obey God then man. Howbeit in all other matters , whereby the glory and maiesty of God is not impeached or impaired , it is the duty of Clerics to plie the people with wholesome exhortation to constant obedience , and to auert by earnest disswasions the said people from tumultuous reuolt and seditious insurrection . This practise vnder the Pagan Emperours , was held and followed by the auncient Christians ; by whose godly zeale and patience in bearing the yoke , the Church in times past grew and flourished in her happy and plentifull encrease , farre greater then Poperie shall euer purchase and attaine vnto by all her cunning deuises and sleights : as namely by degrading of Kings , by interdicting of Kingdomes , by apposted murders , and by Diabolicall traines of Gunne-powder-mines . The places of Scripture alledged in order by the Cardinall , in fauour of those that stand for the Popes claime of power and authoritie to depose Kings , are cited with no more sinceritie then the former : They alleadge ( these are his words ) that Samuel deposed King Saul , or declared him to bee deposed , because hee had violated the lawes of the Iewes religion . His Lordship auoucheth elsewhere , that Saul was deposed , because hee had sought prophanely to vsurpe the holy Priesthood . Both false , and contrary to the tenor of truth in the sacred historie . For Saul was neuer deposed , according to the sense of the word ( I meane , depose ) in the present question : to wit , as deposing is taken for despoyling the King of his Royall dignity , and reducing the King to the condition of a priuate person : But Saul held the title of King , and continued in possession of his Kingdome , euen to his dying day . Yea , the Scripture styles him King , euen to the periodical and last day of his life , by the testimonie of Dauid himselfe , who both by Gods promise , and by precedent vnction , was then heire apparant as it were to the Crowne , in a manner then ready to gird and adorne the temples of his head . For if Samuel , by Gods commaundement , had then actually remooued Saul from his Throne , doubtles the whole Church of Israel had committed a grosse error , in taking and honouring Saul for their King after such deposition : doubtlesse the Prophet Samuel himselfe , making known the Lords ordinance vnto the people , would haue enioyned them by strict prohibition , to call him no longer the King of Israel : doubtles Dauid would neuer haue held his hand from the throate of Saul , for this respect and consideration , because hee was the Lords annointed . For if Saul had lost his Kingly authoritie , from that instant when Samuel gaue him knowledge of his reiection ; then Dauid , least otherwise the bodie of the Kingdome should want a Royal Head , was to beginne his Raigne , and to beare the Royall Scepter in the very same instant : which were to charge the holy Scriptures with vntruth , in as much as the sacred historie beginnes the computation of the yeers of Dauids raigne , from the day of Sauls death . True it is , that in the 2. Sam. cap. 15. Saul was denounced by Gods owne sentence , a man reiected , and as it were excommunicated out of the Kingdome , that he should not rule and raigne any longer as King ouer Israel ; neuerthelesse the said sentence was not put in execution , before the day when God , executing vpon Saul an exemplarie iudgement , did strike him with death . From whence it is manifest and cleare , that when Dauid was annointed King by Samuel , that action was onely a promise , and a testimony of the choice , which God had made of Dauid for succession immediately after Saul ; and not a present establishment , inuestment , or instalment of Dauid in the Kingdome . Wee reade the like in 1. King. cap. 19. where God commaundeth Elias the Prophet , to annoint Hasael King of Syria . For can any man be so blind and ignorant in the sacred History , to beleeue the Prophets of Israel established , or sacred the Kings of Syria ? For this cause , when Dauid was actually established in the Kingdom , he was anointed the second time . In the next place he brings in the Popes champions vsing these words ; Rehoboam was deposed by Ahiah the Prophet , from his Royall right ouer the tenne Tribes of Israel , because his father Salomon had played the Apostata , in falling from the Lawe of God. This I say also , is more then the truth of the sacred historie doth affoard . For Ahiah neuer spake to Rehoboam ( for ought we reade , ) nor brought vnto him any message from the Lord. As for the passage quoted by the L. Cardinall out of Reg. 3. chap. 11. it hath not reference to the time of Rehoboams raigne , but rather indeed to Salomons time : nor doth it carrie the face of a iudicatory sentence for the Kings deposing , but rather of a Propheticall prediction . For how could Rehoboam , before he was made King , be depriued of the Kingdome ? Last of all , but worst of all ; to alleadge this passage for an example of a iust sentence in matter of deposing a King , is to approoue the disloyall treachery of a seruant against his master , and the rebellion of Ieroboam branded in Scripture with a marke of perpetuall infamy for his wickednesse and impietie . He goes on with an other example of no more truth : King Achab was deposed by Elias the Prophet , because he imbraced false religion , and worshipped false gods . False too like the former ; King Achab lost his Crowne and his life both together . The Scripture , that speaketh not according to mans fancy , but according to the truth , doth extend and number the yeeres of Achabs raigne , to the time of his death . Predictions of a Kings ruine , are no sentences of deposition . Elias neuer gaue the subiects of Achab absolution from their oath of obedience ; neuer gaue them the least inckling of any such absolution ; neuer set vp , or placed any other King in Achabs Throne . That of the L. Cardinall a little after , is no lesse vntrue : That King Vzziah was driuen from the conuersation of the people by Azarias the Priest , and thereby the administration of his Kingdome was left no longer in his power . Not so : For when God had smitten Vzziah with leprosie in his forehead , he withdrew himselfe , or went out into an house apart , for feare of infecting such as were whole by his contagious disease . The high Priest smote him not with any sentence of deposition , or denounced him suspended from the administration of his Kingdome . No : the dayes of his raigne are numbred in Scripture , to the day of his death . And whereas the Priest , according to the Lawe in the 13. of Leuit. iudged the King to be vncleane ; he gaue sentence against him , not as against a criminall person , and thereby within the compasse of deposition ; but as against a diseased body . For the Lawe inflicteth punishments , not vpon diseases , but vpon crimes . Hereupon , whereas it is recorded by Iosephus in his Antiquities , that Vzziah lead a priuate , and in a manner , a solitarie life ; the said author doth not meane , that Vzziah was deposed , but onely that he disburdened himselfe of care to mannage the publike affaires . The example of Mattathias , by whome the Iewes were stirred vp to rebell against Antiochus , is no better worth . For in that example we finde no sentence of deposition , but onely an heartning and commotion of a people then grieuously afflicted and oppressed . He that makes himselfe the ring-leader of conspiracie against a King , doth not forthwith assume the person , or take vp the office and charge of a Iudge , in forme of lawe , and iuridically to depriue a King of his Regall rights , and Royall prerogatiues . Mattathias was chiefe of that conspiracy , not in qualitie of Priest , but of cheiftaine , or leader in warre , and a man the best qualified of all the people . Things acted by the suddaine violence of the base vulgar , must not stand for lawes , nor yet for proofes and arguments of ordinarie power , such as the Pope challengeth to himselfe , and appropriateth to his triple-Crowne . These bee our solide answers : wee disclaime the light armour which the L. Cardinall is pleased to furnish vs withall , forsooth to recreate himselfe , in rebating the points of such weapons , as he hath vouchsafed to put into our hands . Now it will be worth our labour to beate by his thrusts , fetcht from the ordinary mission of the new Testament , from leprosie , stones , and locks of wool . A leach no doubt of admirable skil , one that for subiecting the Crownes of Kings vnto the Pope , is able to extract arguments out of stones ; yea , out of the leprosie , and the drie scab , onely forsooth because heresie is a kind of leprosie , and an heretike hath some affinitie with a leper . But may not his Quoniam , be as fitly applyed to any contagious & inueterate vice of the minde beside heresie ? His warning-peice therefore is discharged to purpose , whereby he notifies that hee pretendeth to handle nothing with resolution . For indeed vpon so weake arguments , a resolution is but ill-fauouredly and weakely grounded . His bulwarks thus beaten downe , let vs now viewe the strength of our owne . First , hee makes vs to fortifie on this manner : They that are for the negatiue , doe alleadge the authoritie of S. Paul ; Let euery soule bee subiect vnto the higher powers : For whosoeuer resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of God. And likewise that of S. Peter , Submit your selues , whether it be vnto the King , as vnto the superiour , or vnto gouernours , &c. Vpon these passages , and the like , they inferre , that obedience is due to Kings by the Lawe of God , and not dispensable by any spirituall or temporall authoritie . Thus he brings vs in with our first weapon . But here the very cheife sinew and strength of our argument , he doth wittingly balke , and of purpose conceale . To wit , That all the Emperours of whom the said holy Apostles haue made any mention in their diuine Epistles , were professed enemies to Christ , Pagans , Infidels , fearefull and bloody Tyrants : to whom notwithstanding euery soule , and therefore the Bishop of Rome for one , is commaunded to submit himselfe , and to professe subiection . Thus much Chrysostome hath expressely taught in his Hom. 23. vpon the Epistle to the Romanes ; The Apostle giues this commandement vnto all : euen to Priests also , and cloistered Monkes , not onely to secular : be thou an Apostle , an Euangelist , a Prophet , &c. Besides , it is here worthy to be noted , that howsoeuer the Apostles rule is generall , and therefore bindeth all the faithfull in equal bands ; yet is it particularly , directly , and of purpose addressed to the Church of Rome by S. Paul , as by one who in the spirit of an Apostle did foresee , that rebellion against Princes was to rise and spring from the city of Rome . Now in case the Head of that Church by warrant of any priuiledge , contained in the most holy Register of Gods holy word , is exempted from the binding power of this generall precept or rule ; did it not become his Lordship to shew by the booke , that it is a booke case , and to lay it forth before that honourable assembly , who no doubt expected & waited to heare when it might fal from his learned lips ? But in stead of any such authenticall and canonicall confirmation , hee flyeth to a sleight shift , and with a cauill is bold to affirme the foundation , laid by those of our side , doth no way touch the knot of the controuersie . Let vs heare him speake : Jt is not in controuersie , whether obedience bee due to Kings by Gods Lawe , so long as they are Kings , or acknowledged for Kings : but our point controuerted , is whether by Gods Lawe it bee required , that hee who hath beene once recognised and receiued for King by the bodie of Estates , can at any time bee taken and reputed as no King , that is to say , can doe no manner of act whereby hee may loose his right , and so cease to be saluted King. This answer of the L. Cardinal is the rare deuise , euasion , and starting hole of the Iesuites . In whose eares of delicate and tender touch , King-killing soundeth very harsh : but forsooth to vn-king a King first , and then to giue him the stabbe , that is a point of iust and true descant . For to kill a King , once vn-king'd by deposition , is not killing of a King. For the present I haue one of that Iesuiticall Order in prison , who hath face enough to speak this language of Ashdod , and to maintaine this doctrine of the Iesuites Colledges . The L. Cardinal harps vpon the same string . He can like subiection and obedience to the King , whilest hee sitteth King : but his Holinesse must haue all power , and giue order withall , to hoyst him out of his Royall seate . I therefore now answer , that in very deed the former passages of S. Paul and S. Peter should come nothing neere the question , if the state of the question were such as he brings it , made and forged in his owne shop . But certes the state of the question is not , whether a King may doe some act , by reason whereof hee may fall from his right , or may not any longer be acknowledged for King. For all our contention is , concerning the Popes power to vn-authorize Princes : whereas in the question framed and fitted by the L. Card. not a word of the Pope . For were it graunted and agreed on both sides , that a King by election might fall from his Kingdome , yet still the knot of the question would hold , whether he can bee dispossessed of his Regall authority , by any power in the Pope ; and whether the Pope hath such fulnesse of power , to strip a King of those Royall robes , rights , and reuenues of the Crowne , which were neuer giuen him by the Pope ; as also by what authority of holy Scripture , the Pope is able to beare out himselfe in this power , and to make it good . But here the L. Cardinal stoutly saith in his owne defence by way of reioynder ; As one text hath , Let euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers ; in like manner an other text hath , Obey your Prelates , and be subiect vnto your Pastors : for they watch ouer your soules , as men that shall giue an accompt for your soules . This reason is void of reason , and makes against himselfe . For may not Prelates be obeyed and honoured , without Kings be deposed ? If Prelates preach the doctrine of the Gospell , will they in the pulpit stirre vp subiects to rebell against Kings ? Moreouer , whereas the vniuersal Church in these daies is diuided into so many discrepant parts , that now Prelates neither do nor can draw all one way ; is it not exceeding hard , keeping our obedience towards God , to honour them all at once with due obedience ? Nay ; is not here offered vnto me a dart out of the L. Cardinals armorie , to cast at himselfe ? For as God chargeth all men with obedience to Kings , and yet from that commaundement of God , the Lord Cardinal would not haue it inferred , that Kings haue power to degrade Ecclesiasticall Prelates : euen so God giueth charge to obey Prelates , yet doth it not followe from hence , that Prelates haue power to depose Kings . These two degrees of obedience agree well together , and are each of them bounded with peculiar and proper limits . But for so much as in this point , we haue on our side the whole auncient Church , which , albeit she liued and groned for many ages together vnder heathen Emperours , heretikes , and persecuters , did neuer so much as whisper a word about rebelling and falling from their Soueraigne Lords , and was neuer by any mortall creature freed from the oath of allegiance to the Emperour ; the Cardinal is not vnwilling to graunt , that ancient Christians in those times were bound to performe such fidelity & allegiance , for as much as the Church ( the Cardinal for shame durst not say the Pope ) then had not absolued them of their oath . No doubt a pleasant dreame , or a merry conceit rather , to imagine the Bishop of Rome was armed with power to take away the Empire of the world from Nero , or Claudius , or Domitianus ; to whom it was not knowne , whether the citie of Rome had any Bishop at all . Is it not a master-iest , of a straine most ridiculous , to presuppose the Grand-masters and absolute Lords of the whole world , had a sent so dull , that they were not able to smel out , and to nose things vnder their owne noses ? that they saw so little with other mens eies and their owne , that within their capitall citie , they could not spie that Soueraigne armed with ordinary and lawfull authority to degrade , and to turne them out of their renowned Empire ? Doubtlesse the said Emperours , vassals belike of the Popes Empire , are to be held excused for not acknowledging and honouring the Pope in quality of their Lord , as became his vassals ; because they did not know there was any such power in the world , as after-times haue magnified and adored vnder the qualitie of Pope . For the Bishops of Rome in those times , were of no greater authoritie , power , and meanes , then some of the Bishops are in these daies within my Kingdomes . But certes those Popes of that primitiue age , thought it not expedient in the said times to drawe their swords : they exercised their power in a more mild and soft kind of cariage toward those miserable Emperours , for three seuerall reasons alledged by the L. Cardinall . The first : because the Bishops then durst not by their censures whet and prouoke those Emperous , for feare of plunging the Church in a Sea of persecutions . But if I be not cleane voide of common sense , this reason serueth to charge not only the Bishops of Rome , but all the auncient professors of Christ besides , with deepe dissimulation and hypocrisie . For it is all one as if he had professed , that all their obedience to their Soueraignes , was but counterfeit , and extorted , or wrung out of them by force : that all the submissiue supplications of the auncient Fathers , the assured testimonies and pledges of their allegiance , humilitie , and patience , were but certaine formes of disguised speech , proceeding not freely from the suggestions of fidelity , but faintly and fainedly , or at least from the strong twitches & violent convulsions of feare . Wherupon it followes , that all their torments and punishments , euen to the death , are wrongfully honoured with the title , and crowned with the crowne of Martyrdome ; because their patience proceeded not from their owne free choice and election , but was taught by the force of necessitie , as by compulsion : and whereas they had not mutinously and rebelliously risen in arms , to asswage the scorching heat and burning flames of tyrannicall persecuters , it was not for want of will , but for lacke of power . Which false and forged imputation , the Fathers haue cleared themselues of in their writings . Tertullian in his Apologet : All places are full of Christians , the cities , isles , castles , burroughs , armies , &c. If we that are so infinite a power , and multitude of men , had broken from you into some remote nooke or corner of the world , the cities no doubt had become naked and solitarie : there had beene a dreadfull and horrible silence ouer the face of the whole Empire : the great Emperours had beene driuen to seeke out newe cities , and to discouer newe nations , ouer whom to beare Soueraigne sway and rule : there had remained more enemies to the State , then subiects and friends . Cyprian also against Demetrianus : None of vs all , howsoeuer wee are a people mighty and without number , haue made resistance against any of your vniust and wrongfull actions , executed with all violence ; neither haue sought by rebellious armes , or by any other sinister practises , to crie quittance with you at any time for the righting of our selues . Certain it is , that vnder Iulianus , the whole Empire in a manner professed the Christian Religion ; yea , that his Leiftenants and great Commanders , as Iovinianus , and Valentinianus by name , professed Christ . Which two Princes not long after attained to the Imperiall dignitie , but might haue solicited the Pope sooner to degrade Iulianus from the Imperiall Throne . For say that Iulians whole army had renounced the Christian Religion : ( as the L. Cardinall against all shew and appearance of truth would beare vs in hand , and contrary to the generall voice of the said whole army , making this profession with one consent when Iulian was dead , Wee are all Christians : ) yet Italie then persisting in the faith of Christ , and the army of Iulian then lying quartered in Persia , the vtmost limit of the Empire to the East , the Bishop of Rome had fit opportunity to drawe the sword of his authority ( if he had then any such sword hanging at his Pontificall side ) to make Iulian feele the sharpe edge of his weapon , and thereby to pull him downe from the stately pearch of the Romane Empire . I say moreouer , that by this generall and suddaine profession of the whole Caesarian army , We are all Christians , it is clearely testified , that if his army or souldiers were then addicted to Paganisme , it was wrought by compulsion , and cleane contrary to their setled perswasion before : and then it followes , that with greater patience they would haue borne the deposing of Iulian , then if hee had suffered them to vse the libertie of their conscience . To bee short in the matter ; S. Augustine makes all whole , and by his testimonie doth euince , that Iulians army perseuered in the faith of Christ . The souldiers of Christ serued a heathen Emperour : But when the cause of Christ was called in question , they acknowledged none but Christ in heauen : When the Emperour would haue them to serue , and to perfume his idols with frankincense , they gaue obedience to God , rather then to the Emperour . After which words , the very same words alledged by the L. Cardinall against himselfe doe followe : They did then distinguish betweene the Lord eternall , and the Lord temporall : neuerthelesse they were subiect vnto the Lord temporall , for the Lord eternall . It was therefore to pay God his duty of obedience , and not for feare to incense the Emperour , or to drawe persecution vpon the Church ( as the L. Cardinall would make vs beleeue ) that Christians of the Primitiue Church and Bishops by their censures , durst not anger and prouoke their Emperours . But his Lordship by his coloured pretences doth manifestly prouoke and stirre vp the people to rebellion , so soone as they knowe their owne strength to beare out a rebellious practise . Whereupon it followes , that in case their conspiracie shall take no good effect , all the blame and fault must lie , not in their disloyalty and treason , but in the badde choice of their times for the best aduantage , and in the want of taking a true sight of their owne weakenesse . Let stirring spirits be trained vp in such practicall precepts , let desperate wits be seasoned with such rules of discipline ; and what need we , or how can we wonder they contriue powder — conspiracies , and practise the damnable art of parricides ? After Iulian , his Lordship falles vpon Valentinian the younger , who maintaining Arrianisme with great and open violence , might haue beene deposed by the Christians from his Empire , and yet ( say we ) they neuer dream'd of any such practise . Here the L. Cardinal maketh answer : The Christians mooued with respect vnto the fresh memory both of the brother and father , as also vnto the weake estate of the sonnes young yeeres , abstained from all counsels and courses of sharper effect and operation . To which answer I reply : these are but friuolous coniectures , deuised and framed to tickle his owne fancie . For had Valentinianus the younger beene the sonne of an Arrian , and had then also attained to threescore yeeres of age , they would neuer haue borne themselues in other fashion then they did , towards their Emperour . Then the Cardinal goeth on : The people would not abandon the factious and seditious party , but were so firme or obstinate rather for the faction , that Valentinian for feare of the tumultuous vproares was constrained to giue way , and was threatened by the souldiers , that except hee would adhere vnto the Catholikes , they would yeeld him no assistance , nor stand for his partie . Now this answer of the L. Cardinall makes nothing to the purpose , concerning the Popes power to pull downe Kings from their stately nest . Let vs take notice of his proper consequence . Valentinian was afraid of the popular tumult at Milan : the Pope therefore hath power to curbe hereticall Kings by deposition . Now marke what distance is betweene Rome and Milan , what difference betweene the people of Milan , and the Bishop of Rome ; betweene a popular tumult , and a iudicatory sentence ; between fact and right , things done by the people or souldiers of Milan , and things to bee done according to right and law by the Bishop of Rome ; the same distance , the same difference ( if not farre greater ) is betweene the L. Cardinals antecedent and his consequent , betweene his reason , and the maine cause or argument which we haue in hand . The madde commotion of the people was not here so much to be regarded , as the sad instruction of the Pastor , of their good and godly Pastor S. Ambrose , so far from heartning the people of Milan to rebell , that being Bishop of Milan , he offered himselfe to suffer Martyrdome : If the Emperour abuse his Imperiall authoritie , ( for so Theodoret hath recited his words ) to tyrannize thereby , here am I ready to suffer death . And what resistance he made against his L. Emperour , was only by way of supplication in these tearmes : We beseech thee , O Augustus , as humble suppliants ; we offer no resistance : we are not in feare , but we flie to supplication . Againe , If my patrimony be your marke , enter vpon my patrimonie : if my bodie , I will goe and meet my torments . Shall I bee drag'd to prison or to death ? I will take delight in both . Item , in his Oration to Auxentius : J can afflict my soule with sorrowe , I can lament , J can send forth grieuous groanes : My weapons against either of both , souldiers or Goths , are teares : A Priest hath none other weapons of defence : I neither can resist , nor ought in any other manner to make resistance . Iustinian Emperour in his old age fell into the heresie of the Aphthartodocites . Against Iustinian , though fewe they were that fauoured him in that heresie , the Bishop of Rome neuer darted with violence any sentence of Excommunication , interdiction , or deposition . The Ostrogot Kings in Italy , the Visigot in Spaine , the Vandal in Africa were all addicted to the Arrian impietie , and some of them cruelly persecuted the true professors . The Visigot and Vandall were no neighbours to Italie . The Pope thereby had the lesse cause to feare the stings of those waspes , if they had been angred . The Pope for all that neuer had the humour to wrastle or iustle with any of the said Kings in the cause of deposing them from their Thrones . But especially the times when the Vandals in Affricke , and the Goths in Italy by Belisarius and Narses , professors of the Orthodoxe faith , were tyred with long warres , and at last were vtterly defeated in bloodie battels , are to be considered . Then were the times or neuer , for the Pope to vnsheath his weapons , and to vn-case his arrowes of deposition ; then were the times to drawe them out of his quiuer , and to shoote at all such Arrian Heads : then were the times by dispensations to release their subiects of their oathes , by that peremptory meanes to aide and strengthen the Catholike cause . But in that age the said weapons were not knowne to haue been hammered in the Pontificall forge . Gregory I. made his boasts , that he was able to ruine the Lombards , ( for many yeeres together sworne enemies to the Bishops of Rome ) their state present , and the hope of all their future prosperity . But hee telleth vs , that by the feare of God before his eyes and in his heart , he was bridled and restrained from any such intent , as elswhere we haue obserued : If J would haue medled with practising and procuring the death of the Lombards , the whole nation of the Lombards at this day had been robbed of their Kings , Dukes , Earles , they had beene reduced to the tearmes of extreame confusion . Hee might at least haue deposed their King , ( if the credit of the L. Cardinals iudgement bee currant ) without polluting or stayning his owne conscience . What can we tearm this assertion of the L. Cardinall , but open charging the most auncient Bishops of Rome with crueltie , when they would not succour the Church of Christ oppressed by tyrants , whose oppression they had power to represse by deposing the oppressors . Is it credible , that Iesus Christ hath giuen a Commission to S. Peter and his successors for so many ages , without any power to execute their Commission , or to make any vse thereof by practise ? Is it credible , that he hath giuen them a sword to be kept in the scabbard , without drawing once in a thousand yeeres ? Is it credible , that in the times when Popes were most deboshed , abandoning themselues to all sorts of corrupt and vitious courses , as it testified by their own flaterers and best affected seruants ; is it credible that in those times they beganne to vnderstand the vertue and strength of their Commission ? For if either feare or lacke of power , was the cause of holding their hands , and voluntarie binding of themselues to the peace or good behauiour : wherefore is not some one Pope at least produced , who hath complained that he was hindered from executing the power that Christ had conferred vpon his Pontificall See ? Wherefore is not some one of the auncient and holy Fathers alledged , by whom the Pope hath bin aduised and exhorted to take courage , to stand vpon the vigor and sinewes of his Papall Office , to vnsheath and vnease his bolts of thunder against vngodly Princes , and grieuous enemies to the Church ? wherefore liuing vnder Christian and gracious Emperours , haue they not made knowne the reasons , why they were hindred from drawing the pretended sword ; least long custome of not vsing the sword so many ages , might make it so to rust in the scabbard , that when there should bee occasion to vse the said sword , it could not be drawne at all ; and least so long custome of not vsing the same , should confirme prescription to their greater preiudice ? If weakenes bee a iust let , how is it come to passe , that Popes haue enterprised to depose Philip the Faire , Lewis the XII . and Elizabeth my predecessor of happy memorie ; ( to let passe others ) in whom experience hath well prooued , how great inequalitie was between their strengths ? Yea , for the most part from thence growe most grieuous troubles and warres , which iustly recoyle and light vpon his owne head ; as happened to Gregory the VII . and Boniface the VIII . This no doubt is the reason , wherefore the Pope neuer sets in ( for feare of such inconueniences ) to blast a King with lightning and thunder of deposition , but when he perceiues the troubled waters of the Kingdome by some strong faction setled in his Estate ; or when the King is confined , and bordered by some Prince more potent , who thirsteth after the prey , & is euer gaping for some occasion to picke a quarrell . The King standing in such estate , is it not as easie for the Pope to pull him downe , as it is for a man with one hand to thrust downe a tottering wall , when the groundsil is rotten , the studdes vnpind and nodding or bending towards the ground ? But if the King shall beare down and break the faction within the Realme ; if hee shall get withall the vpper hand of his enemies out of the Kingdome ; then the holy Father presents him with pardons neuer sued for , neuer asked ; and in a fathers indulgence forsooth , giues him leaue stil to hold the Kingdome , that he was not able by all his force to wrest and wring out of his hand , no more then the clubbe of Hercules out of his fist . How many worthy Princes , incensed by the Pope , to conspire against Soueraigne Lords their Masters , and by open rebellion to worke some change in their Estates , haue miscarried in the action , with losse of life , or honour , or both ? For example ; Rodulphus Duke of Sueuia was eg'd on by the Pope , against Henrie IIII. of that name , Emperour . How many massacres , how many desolations of cities and townes , how many bloody battels ensued thereupon ? Let histories be searched , let iust accompts be taken , and beside sieges laid to cities , it wil appeare by true computation , that Henrie IIII. and Frederic the I. fought aboue threescore battels , in defence of their owne right against enemies of the Empire , stirred vp to armes by the Popes of Rome . How much Christian blood was then split in these bloody battels , it passeth mans witte , penne , or tongue to expresse . And to giue a little touch vnto matters at home ; doth not his Holinesse vnderstand right well the weakenesse of Papists in my Kingdome ? Doth not his Holinesse neuerthelesse animate my Papists to rebellion , and forbid my Papists to take the oath of allegiance ? Doth not his Holinesse by this means draw ( so much as in him lieth ) persecution vpon the backes of my Papists as vpon rebells , and expose their life as it were vpon the open stall , to be sold at a very easie price ? All these examples , either ioynt or seuerall , are manifest and euident proofes , that feare to drawe mischiefe and persecution vpon the Church , hath not barred the Popes from thundering against Emperours and Kings , whensoeuer they conceiued any hope , by their fulminations to aduance their greatnesse . Last of all ; I referre the matter to the most possessed with preiudice , euen the very aduersaries , whether this doctrine , by which people are trained vp in subiection vnto Infidel or hereticall Kings , vntill the subiects be of sufficient strength to mate their Kings , to expell their Kings , and to depose them from their Kingdomes , doth not incense the Turkish Emperours and other Infidel Princes , to roote out all the Christians that drawe in their yoke , as people that waite onely for a fit occasion to rebell , and to take themselues ingaged for obedience to their Lords , onely by constraint and seruile feare . Let vs therefore now conclude with Ozius , in that famous Epistle speaking to Constantius an Arrian hereticke : As hee that by secret practise or open violence would bereaue thee of thy Empire , should violate Gods ordinance : so be thou touched with feare , least , by vsurping authoritie ouer Church matters , thou tumble not headlong into some hainous crime . Where this holy Bishop hath not vouchsafed to insert and mention the L. Cardinals exception ; to wit , the right of the Church alwaies excepted and saued , when she shall be of sufficient strength to shake off the yoke of Emperours . Neither speaks the same holy Bishop of priuate persons alone , or men of some particular condition and calling ; but he setteth downe a generall rule for all degrees , neuer to impeach Imperial Maiestie vpon any pretext whatsoeuer . As his Lordships first reason drawn from weakenesse is exceeding weake : so is that which the L. Cardinall takes vp in the next place : He telleth vs there is very great difference betweene Pagan Emperours , and Christian Princes : Pagan Emperours who neuer did homage to Christ , who neuer were by their subiects receiued , with condition to acknowledge perpetuall subiection vnto the Empire of Christ ; who neuer were bound by oath and mutuall contract betweene Prince and subiect . Christian Princes who slide backe by Apostasie , degenerate by Arrianisme , or fall away by Mahometisme . Touching the latter of these two , ( as his Lordshippe saith ) If they shall as it were take an oath , and make a vowe contrary to their first oath and vow made and taken when they were installed , and contrary to the condition vnder which they receiued the Scepter of their Fathers ; if they withall shall turne persecutors of the Catholike religion ; touching these I say , the L. Cardinal holds , that without question they may be remooued from their Kingdomes . He telleth vs not by whome , but euery where he meaneth by the Pope . Touching Kings deposed by the Pope vnder pretence of stupidity , as Childeric ; or of matrimoniall causes , as Philip I. or for collating of benefices , as Philip the Faire ; not one word . By that point he easily glideth , and shuffles it vp in silence , for feare of distasting the Pope on the one side , or his auditors on the other . Now in alledging this reason , his Lordship makes all the world a witnesse , that in deposing of Kings , the Pope hath no eye of regard to the benefit and securitie of the Church . For such Princes as neuer suckt other milke then that of Infidelitie , and persecution of Religion , are no lesse noisome and pernicious vermin to the Church , then if they had sucked of the Churches breasts . And as for the greatnesse of the sinne or offence , it seemes to me there is very little difference in the matter . For a Prince that neuer did sweare any religious obedience to Iesus Christ , is bound no lesse to such obedience , then if he had taken a solemne oath . As the sonne that rebelliously stands vp against his father , is in equall degree of sinne , whether he hath sworn or not sworn obedience to his father : because hee is bound to such obedience , not by any voluntarie contract or couenant , but by the law of Nature . The commaundement of God to kisse the Sonne , whom the Father hath confirmed and ratified King of Kings , doth equally bind all Kings , as wel Pagans as Christians . On the other side , who denies , who doubts , that Constantius Emperour at his first steppe or entrance into the Empire , did not sweare and bind himselfe by solemne vowe , to keepe the rules and to maintaine the precepts of the Orthodox faith , or that he did not receiue his fathers Empire vpon such condition ? This notwithstanding , the Bishop of Rome pulled not Constantius from his Imperial throne , but Constantius remooued the Bishop of Rome from his Papall See. And were it so , that an oath taken by a King at his consecration , and after violated , is a sufficient cause for the Pope to depose an Apostate or hereticall Prince ; then by good consequence the Pope may in like sort depose a King , who beeing neither dead in Apostasie , nor sicke of heresie , doth neglect onely the due administration of iustice to his loyall subiects . For his oath taken at consecration importeth likewise , that he shall minister iustice to his people . A point wherein the holy Father is held short by the L. Cardinall , who dares prescribe new lawes to the Pope , and presumes to limit his fulnesse of power , within certaine meeres and head-lands , extending the Popes power only to the deposing of Christian Kings , when they turne Apostats forsaking the Catholike faith ; and not such Princes as neuer breathed any thing but pure Paganisme , and neuer serued vnder the colours of Iesus Christ . Meane while his Lordship forgets , that King Attabaliba was deposed by the Pope from his Kingdome of Peru , and the said Kingdome was conferred vpon the King of Spaine , though the said poore King of Peru , neuer forsook his heathen superstition ; and though the turning of him out of his terrestrial Kingdome was no way to conuert him vnto the faith of Christ . Yea his Lordship a little after telleth vs himselfe , that Be the Turkes possession in the conquests that hee maketh ouer Christians neuer so auncient , yet by no long tract of time whatsoeuer , can he gaine so much as a thumbes breadth of prescription : that is to say , the Turke for all that is but a disseisor , one that violently and wilfully keeps an other man from his owne , and by good right may be dispossessed of the same : whereas notwithstanding the Turkish Emperours neuer fauoured nor sauoured Christianitie . Let vs runne ouer the examples of Kings whome the Pope hath dared and presumed to depose ; and hardly will any one be found , of whome it may be truely auouched , that he hath taken an oath contrary to his oath of subiection to Iesus Christ , or that hee hath wilfully cast himselfe into Apostaticall defection . And certes to any man that weighs the matter with due consideration , it will be found apparantly false , that Kings of France haue been receiued of their subiects at any time , with condition to serue Iesus Christ . They were actually Kings before they came foorth to the solemnity of their sacring , before they vsed any stipulation or promise to their subiects . For in hereditary Kingdomes , ( nothing more certain , nothing more vncontroulable ) the Kings death instantly maketh liuery and seisin of the Royalty , to his next successor . Nor is it materiall to reply , that a King succeeding by right of inheritance , takes an oath in the person of his predecessor . For euery oath is personall , proper to the person by whom it is taken : and to God no liuing creature can sweare , that his owne sonne or his heire shall prooue an honest man. Well may the father , and with great solemnitie , promise that he will exhort his heire apparant with all his power and the best of his endeauours , to feare God and to practise pietie . If the fathers oath be agreeable to the duties of godlines , the sonne is bound thereby , whether he take an oath , or take none . On the other side , if the fathers oath come from the puddles of impietie , the sonne is bound thereby to goe the contrarie way . If the fathers oath concerne things of indifferent nature , and such as by the varietie or change of times , become either pernicious or impossible ; then it is free for the Kings next successor and heire , prudently to fit and proportion his lawes vnto the times present , and to the best benefit of the Commonwealth . When I call these things to mind with some attention , I am out of all doubt his Lordship is very much to seek , in the right sense and nature of his Kings oath taken at his Coronation , to defend the Church and to perseuere in the Catholike faith . For what is more vnlike and lesse credible then this conceit , that after Clouis had raigned 15. yeeres in the state of Paganisme , and then receiued holy Baptisme , he should become Christian vpon this condition , That in case hee should afterward revolt from the faith , it should then bee in the power of the Church , to turne him out of his Kingdome ? But had any such conditionall stipulation beene made by Clouis , in very good earnest and truth ; yet would hee neuer haue intended , that his deposing should be the act of the Romane Bishop , but rather of those ( whether Peeres , or people , or whole body of the State ) by whom he had been aduanced to the Kingdome . Let vs heare the truth , and this is the truth : It is farre from the customarie vse in France , for their Kings to take any such oath , or to vse any such stipulation with their subiects . If any King or Prince wheresoeuer , doth vse an oath or solemne promise in these expresse tearmes , Let mee loose my Kingdome , or my life , be that day my last both for life and raigne , when I shall first reuolt from the Christian religion : by these words he calleth vpon God for vengeance , he vseth imprecation against his owne head : but he makes not his Crowne to stoope by this meanes , to any power in the Pope , or in the Church , or in the people . And touching inscriptions vpon coines , of which point his Lordship speaketh by the way ; verily the nature of the money or coine ( the stamping and minting whereof is one of the markes of the Prince his dignity and Soueraignty ) is not changed by bearing the letters of Christs name , on the reuerse or on the front . Such characters of Christs name , are aduertisements and instructions to the people , that in shewing and yeelding obedience vnto the King , they are obedient vnto Christ ; and those Princes likewise , who are so well aduised to haue the most sacred names inscribed and printed in their coines , doe take and acknowledge Iesus Christ for supreame King of Kings . The said holy characters are no representation or profession , that any Kings Crown dependeth vpon the Church , or can be taken away by the Pope . The L. Cardinal indeed so beareth vs in hand . But he inuerts the words of Iesus Christ , and wrings them out of the right ioynt . For Christ without all ambiguity and circumlocution , by the image and inscription of the money , doth directly and expressely prooue Caesar to be free from subiection , and intirely Soueraigne . Now if such a supreme and Soueraigne Prince , at any time shal bandie and combine against God , and thereby shall become a rebellious and perfidious Prince ; doubtlesse for such disloyalty he shall deserue , that God would take from him all hope of life eternall : and yet hereby neither Pope nor people hath reason to be puft vp , in their power to depriue him of his temporall Kingdome . The L. Cardinal saith besides : The champions of the Popes power to depose Kings , doe expound that commandement of S. Paul , whereby euery soule is made subiect vnto the superiour powers , to be a prouisionall precept or caution accommodated to the times ; and to stand in force , only vntill the Church was growne in strength vnto such a scantling , that it might be in the power of the faithfull , without shaking the pillars of Christian state , to stand in the breach , and cautelously to prouide that none but Christian Princes might be receiued : according to the Law in Deut. Thou shalt make thee a King frō among thy brethren . The reason whereupon they ground is this : Because Paul saith , It is a shame for Christians to bee iudged vnder vniust Infidels , in matters or busines , which they had one against an other . For which inconuenience , Iustinian after prouided by Lawe ; when he ordained that no Infidell nor heretike might be admitted to the administration of iustice in the Commonwealth . In which words of the Cardinall , the word Receiued , is to be obserued especially and aboue the rest . For by chopping in that word , he doth nimbly and with a trick of legier-de-main , transforme or change the very state of the question . For the question or issue of the cause , is not about receiuing , establishing , or choosing a Prince ; ( as in those Nations where the Kingdome goes by election ) but about doing homage to the Prince , when God hath setled him in the Kingdome , and hath cast it vpon a Prince by hereditary succession . For that which is written , Thou shalt make thee a King , doth no way concerne and touch the people of France in these dayes : because the making of their King hath not of long time been tyed to their election . The passage therefore in Deuteron ▪ makes nothing to the purpose ; no more then doth Iustinians law . For it is our free and voluntary confession , that a Christian Prince is to haue speciall care of the Laws , and to prouide that no vnbeleeuer be made Lord Cheife-Iustice of the Land , that no Infidell be put in trust with administration of iustice to the people . But here the issue doth not direct vs to speake of Delegates , of subordinate Magistrates , and such as are in Commission from the Prince , but of the supreame Prince himselfe , the Soueraigne Magistrate ordained by nature , and confirmed by succession . Our question is , whether such a Prince can be vnthroned by the Pope , by whom he was not placed in the Throne ; and whether the Pope can despoile such a Prince , of that Royaltie which was neuer giuen him by the Pope , vnder any pretended colour and imputation of heresie , of stupiditie , or infringing the priuiledges of Monasteries , or transgressing the lawes and lines of holy matrimonie . Now that Saint Pauls commandement which bindeth euery soule in the bands of subiection vnto the higher powers , is no precept giuen by way of prouiso , and onely to serue the times , but a standing and a perpetuall rule , it is hereby more then manifest . S. Paul hath grounded this commandement vpon certaine reasons , not only constant and permanent by their proper nature , but likewise necessary for euery state , condition , and revolution of the times . His reasons ; Because all powers are ordained of God : because resisting of powers is resisting the ordinance of God : because the Magistrate beares the sword to execute iustice : because obedience and subiection to the Magistrate is necessary , not onely for feare of his wrath , or feare of punishment , but also for conscience sake . It is therefore a case grounded vpon conscience , it is not a law deuised by humane wisedome ; it is not fashionable to the qualities of the times . Apostolicall instructions for the right informing of manners , are not changeable according to times and seasons . To vse the L. Cardinals language , and to followe his fancie in the matter , is to make way for two pestiferous mischeifes : First , let it be free and lawfull for Christians , to hold the commanding rules of God for prouisionall cautions , and what followes ? Men are lead into the broad way of impietie , and the whole Scripture is wiped of all authority . Then againe , for the other mischeife : The glorious triumphs of most blessed Martyrs in their vnspeakeable torments and sufferings , by the L. Cardinalls position shall be iudged vnworthy to weare the title and Crown of Martyrdom . How so ? Because ( according to his new fiction ) they haue giuen place to the violence and fury of heathen Magistrates , not in obedience to the necessary and certaine commaundement of God , but rather to a prouisionall direction , accommodated to the humours of the times . And therefore the L. Cardinall hath vsed none other clay wherewith to dawbe ouer his deuise , but plaine falsification of holy Scripture . For he makes the Apostle say to the Corinthians , It is a shame for Christians to be iudged vnder vnbeleeuing Magistrates : whereas in that whole context of Paul , there is no such matter . For when the Apostle saith , I speake it euen to your shame ; hee doth not say it is a shame for a beleeuer to be iudged vnder an Infidel , but he makes thē ashamed of their vngodly course , and vnchristian practise , that in suing and impleading one an other , they laid their actions of contention in the Courts of vnbeleeuing Iudges . The shame was not in bearing that yoke which God had charged their necks withall , but in deuouring and eating vp one an other with writs of habeas corpus , and with other processes ; as also in vncouering the shame , in laying open the shamefull parts and prankes played by Christians , before Infidels , to the great scandall of the Church . Here I say the L. Cardinall is taken in a tricke of manifest falsification . If therefore a King when hee falls to play the heretike , deserueth to be deposed ; why shall not a Cardinall when hee falls to play the iuggler with holy Scripture , deserue to be disrobed ? Meane while the indifferent Reader is to consider , how greatly this doctrine is preiudiciall , and how full of danger , to Christians liuing vnder heretical or Pagan Princes . For make it once knowne to the Emperour of Turkes , let him once get neuer so little a smacke of this doctrine ; that Christians liuing vnder his Empire do take Gods commaundement , for obedience to Princes whom they count Infidels , to bee onely a prouisionall precept for a time , and wait euery houre for all occasions to shake off the yoke of his bondage ; doubtlesse he will neuer spare with all speed to roote the whole stocke , with all the armes and branches of Christians , out of his dominions . Adde hereunto the L. Cardinalls former determination ; that possession kept neuer so long by the Turk in his Conquests ouer Christians , gaines him not by so long tract of time one inch of prescription ; and it wil appeare , that his Lordship puts the Turkish Emperour in mind , and by his instruction leades the said Emperour as it were by the hand , to haue no manner of affiance in his Christian subiects ; and withall to afflict his poore Christians with all sorts of most grieuous and cruell torments . In this regard the poore Christians of Graecia and Syria , must needes be very little beholden to his Lordship . As for my selfe , and my Popish subiects , to whome I am no lesse then an heretike forsooth ; am not I by this doctrine of the Cardinall , pricked and whetted against my naturall inclination , to turne clemencie into rigour ; seeing that by his doctrine my subiects are made to beleeue , they owe me subiection onely by way of prouiso , and with waiting the occasion to worke my vtter destruction and final ruine ? the rather , because Turkes , miscreants , and heretikes are mashalled by the Cardinall in the same ranke ; and heretikes are counted worse , yea more iustly deposeable , then Turkes and Infidels , as irreligious breakers and violaters of their oath ? Who seeth not here how great indignitie is offered to me a Christian King ? paralleld with Infidels , reputed worse then a Turke , taken for an vsurper of my Kingdomes , reckoned a Prince , to whom subiects owe a forced obedience by way of prouision , vntill they shall haue meanes to shake off the yoke , and to bare my temples of the Crowne , which neuer can be pulled from the sacred Head , but with losse of the head it selfe ? Touching the warres vndertaken by the French , English , and Germaines , in their expedition for Ierusalem , it appeares by the issue and euent of the said warres , that God approoued them not for honourable . That expedition was a deuise and inuention of the Pope , whereby he might come to be infeoffed in the Kingdoms of Christian Princes . For then al such of the French , English , or Germaines , as vndertooke the Croisade , became the Popes meere vassals . Then all robbers by the high way side , adulterers , cut-throats , and base bankerupts , were exempted from the Secular and Ciuil power , their causes were sped in Consistorian Courts , so soone as they had gotten the Crosse on their cassocks or coat-armours , and had vowed to serue in the expedition for the Leuant . Then for the Popes pleasure and at his commaundement , whole countryes were emptied of their Nobles and common souldiers . Then they made long marches into the Leuant . For what purpose ? Onely to die vpon the points of the Saracens pikes , or by the edge of their barbarous courtelasses , battle-axes , fauchions , and other weapons , without any benefit and aduantage to themselues or others . Then the Nobles were driuen to sell their goodly Mannors , and auncient demaines to the Church-men , at vnder prises and low rates ; the very roote from which a great part of the Church and Church-mens reuenewes hath sprung and growne to so great height . Then , to bee short , his most bountifull Holinesse gaue to any of the riffe-raffe-ranke , that would vndertake this expedition into the Holy land , a free and full pardon for all his sinnes , besides a degree of glory aboue the vulgar in the Celestiall Paradise . Military vertue , I confesse , is commendable and honourable ; prouided it be employed for iustice , and that generous noblenesse of valiant spirits be not vnder a colour and shadow of piety , fetcht ouer with some casts or deuises of Italian cunning . Now let vs obserue the wisedome of the L. Cardinall through this whole discourse . His Lordship is pleased in his Oration , to cite certaine few passages of Scripture , culls and picks them out for the most gracefull in shewe : leaues out of his list whole troupes of honourable witnesses , vpon whose testimonie , the Popes themselues and their principall adherents doe build his power to depose Kings , and to giue order for all Temporall causes . Take a sight of their best and most honourable witnesses . Peter said to Christ , See here two swords ; and Christ answered , It is sufficient . Christ said to Peter , Put vp thy sword into thy sheath . God said to Ieremie , I haue established thee ouer Nations and Kingdomes . Paul said to the Corinthians , The spirituall man discerneth all things . Christ said to his Apostles , Whatsoeuer yee shall loose vpon earth : by which words the Pope hath power forsooth to loose the oath of allegiance . Moses said , In the beginning God created the heauen and the earth . Vpon these passages , Pope Boniface 8. grapling and tugging with Philip the Faire , doth build his Temporall power . Other Popes and Papists auouch the like authorities . Christ said of himself , All things are giuen to me of my Father , and all power is giuen vnto me in heauen and in earth . The Deuils said , If thou cast vs out , send vs into this herd of swine . Christ said to his Disciples , Yee shall finde the colt of an asse bound , loose it and bring it vnto me . By these places the aduersaries prooue , that Christ disposed of Temporall matters ; and inferre thereupon , why not Christs Vicar as well as Christ himselfe . The places and testimonies now following are very expresse : In stead of thy fathers shall be thy children : thou shalt make them Princes through all the earth . Item , Iesus Christ not onely commaunded Peter to feed his lambs ; but said also to Peter , Arise , kill , and eat : the pleasant glosse , the rare inuention of the L. Cardinall Baronius . Christ said to the people , If I were lift vp from the earth , I wil draw all things vnto me . Who lets , what hinders this place from fitting the Pope ? Paul said to the Corinthians , Know ye not that we shall iudge the Angels ? how much more then the things that pertaine vnto this life ? A little after , Haue not wee power to eate ? These are the chiefe passages , on which as vpon maine arches , the roofe of Papall Monarchie , concerning Temporall causes , hath rested for three or foure ages past . And yet his Lordship durst not repose any confidence in their firme standing to beare vp the said roofe of Temporall Monarchie , for feare of making his auditors to burst with laughter . A wise part without question , if his Lordship had not defiled his lips before , with a more ridiculous argument drawne from the leprosie and drie scab . Let vs now by way of comparison behold Iesus Christ paying tribute vnto Caesar , and the Pope making Caesar to pay him tribute : Iesus Christ perswading the Iewes to pay tribute vnto an heathen Emperour , and the Pope dispensing with subiects for their obedience to Christian Emperours : Iesus Christ refusing to arbitrate a controuersie of inheritance partable betweene two priuate parties , and the Pope thrusting in himselfe without warrant or Commission to be absolute Iudge in the deposing of Kings : Iesus Christ professing that his Kingdome is not of this world , and the Pope establishing himselfe in a terrene Empire . In like manner the Apostles forsaking all their goods to followe Christ , and the Pope robbing Christians of their goods ; the Apostles persecuted by Pagan Emperours , and the Pope now setting his foote on the very throate of Christian Emperours , then proudly treading Imperiall Crownes vnder his feete . By this comparison , the L. Cardinals allegation of Scripture in fauour of his Master the Pope , is but a kind of puppet-play , to make Iesus Christ a mocking stocke , rather then to satisfie his auditors with any sound precepts and wholesome instructions . Hereof hee seemeth to giue some inckling himselfe . For after he hath beene plentifull in citing authorities of Scripture , and of newe Doctors , which make for the Popes power to depose Kings ; at last he comes in with a faire and open confession , that neither by diuine Oracles , nor by honourable antiquitie , this controuersie hath beene yet determined : and so pulls downe in a word with one hand , the frame of worke that he had built and set vp before with an other : discouering withal the reluctation and priuie checkes of his owne conscience . There yet remaineth one obiection , the knot whereof the L. Cardinall in a manner sweateth to vntie . His words be these : The champions for the negatiue flie to the analogie of other proceedings and practises in the Chruch . They affirme that priuate persons , masters or owners of goods and possessions among the common people , are not depriued of their goods for heresie ; and consequently that Princes much more should not for the same crime bee depriued of their estates . For answer to this reason , he brings in the defendants of deposition , speaking after this manner : In the Kingdom of France the strict execution of lawes decreed in Court against heretickes , is fauourably suspended and stopped , for the preseruation of peace and publike tranquilitie . He saith elsewhere , Conniuence is vsed towards these heretikes in regard of their multitude , because a notable part of the French Nation and State is made all of heretikes . I suppose that out of speciall charitie , hee would haue those heretikes of his own making , forewarned what courteous vse and intreaty they are to expect ; when hee affirmeth that execution of the lawes is but suspended . For indeed suspensions hold but for a time . But in a cause of that nature and importance , I dare promise my selfe , that my most honoured Brother the King of France , will make vse of other counsell : will rather seek the amitie of his neighbour Princes , and the peace of his Kingdom : will beare in minde the great and faithfull seruice of those , who in matter of religion dissent from his Maiestie , as of the onely men that haue preserued and saued the Crowne for the King his Father , of most glorious memorie . I am perswaded my Brother of France will beleeue , that his liege people pretended by the L. Cardinall to be heretikes , are not halfe so bad as my Romane Catholike subiects , who by secret practises vnder-mine my life , serue a forraine Soueraigne , are discharged by his Bulls of their obedience due to me their naturall Soueraigne , are bound ( by the maximes and rules published and maintained in fauour of the Pope , before this full and famous assembly of the Estate at Paris ; if the said maximes be of any weight and authoritie ) to hold me for no lawfull King , are there taught and instructed that Pauls commandement concerning subiection vnto the higher powers , aduerse to their professed religion , is onely a prouisionall precept , framed to the times , and watching for the opportunitie to shake off the yoake . All which notwithstanding , I deale with such Romane-Catholiks by the rules and waies of Princely clemencie ; their hainous and pernicious error , in effect no lesse then the capitall crime of high treason , I vse to call some disease or distemper of the mind . Last of all , I beleeue my said Brother of France will set downe in his tables , as in record , how little he standeth ingaged to the Lord Cardinal in this behalfe . For those of the reformed Religion professe and proclaim , that next vnder God , they owe their preseruation and safetie to the wisedome and benignity of their Kings . But now comes the Cardinall , and hee seekes to steale this perswasion out of their hearts : Hee tells them in open Parliament , and without any going about bushes , that all their welfare and securitie standeth in their multitude , and in the feare which others conceiue to trouble the State , by the strict execution of lawes against heretikes . He addeth moreouer , that Jn case a third sect should peepe out and growe vp in France , the professors thereof should suffer confiscation of their goods , with losse of life it selfe : as hath been practised at Geneua against Seruetus , and in England against Arrians . My answer is this , That punishments for heretikes , duely and according to law conuicted , are set downe by decrees of the ciuil Magistrate , bearing rule in the countrey where the said heretikes inhabite , and not by any ordinances of the Pope . I say withall , the L. Cardinal hath no reason to match and parallell the Reformed Churches with Seruetus and the Arrians . For those heretikes were powerfully conuicted by Gods word , and lawfully condemned by the auncient Generall Councils , where they were permitted and admitted to plead their owne cause in person . But as for the truth professed by me , and those of the reformed religion , it was neuer yet hissed out of the Schooles , nor cast out of any Councill , ( like some Parliament bills ) where both sides haue been heard with like indifferencie . Yea , what Councill soeuer hath beene offered vnto vs in these latter times , it hath been proposed with certaine presuppositions : as , That his Holinesse ( beeing a partie in the cause , and consequently to come vnder iudgement as it were to the barre vpon his triall ) shall be the Iudge of Assize with Commission of oyer and determiner : it shall be celebrated in a citie of no safe accesse , without safe conduct or conuoy to come or goe at pleasure , and without danger : it shall be assembled of such persons with free suffrage and voice , as vphold this rule , ( which they haue alreadie put in practise against Iohn Hus and Hierom of Prage ) that faith giuen , and oath taken to an heretike , must not be obserued . Now then to resume our former matter ; If the Pope hitherto hath neuer presumed , for pretended heresie to confiscate by sentence , either the lands or the goods of priuate persons , or common people of the French Nation , wherfore should he dare to dispossesse Kings of their Royall Thrones ? wherefore takes he more vpon him ouer Kings , then ouer priuate persons ? wherefore shal the sacred heads of Kings be more churlishly , vnciuilly , and rigorously handled , then the hoods of the meanest people ? Here the L. Cardinal in stead of a direct answer , breakes out of the lists , alleadging cleane from the purpose examples of heretikes punished , not by the Pope , but by the ciuill Magistrate of the Countrey . But Bellarmine speakes to the point with a more free and open heart : he is absolute and resolute in this opinion , that his Holinesse hath plenarie power to dispose all Temporall estates and matters in the whole world : I am confident ( saith Bellarmine ) and I speake it with assurance , that our Lord Iesus Christ in the dayes of his mortalitie , had power to dispose of all Temporall things ; yea , to strippe Soueraign Kings and absolute Lords of their Kingdomes and Seignories : and without all doubt hath granted and left euen the same power vnto his Vicar , to make vse thereof whensoeuer he shall thinke it necessary for the saluation of soules . And so his Lordship speaketh without exception of any thing at all . For who doth not knowe , that Iesus Christ had power to dispose no lesse of priuate mens possessions , then of whole Realmes and Kingdomes at his pleasure , if it had been his pleasure to display the ensignes of his power ? The same fulnesse of power is likewise in the Pope . In good time : belike his Holinesse is the sole heire of Christ , in whole and in part . The last Lateran Council fineth a Laic that speaketh blasphemie , for the first offence ( if he be a gentleman ) at 25. ducats , and at 50. for the second . It presupposeth and taketh it for graunted , that the Church may rifle and ransacke the purses of priuate men , and cast lots for their goods . The Councill of Trent diggeth as deepe for the same veine of gold and siluer . It ordaines ; That Emperours , Kings , Dukes , Princes , and Lords of cities , castles , and territories holding of the Church , in case they shall assigne any place within their limits or liberties for the duell between two Christians , shal be depriued of the said citie , castle , or place , where such duell shall be performed , they holding the said place of the Church by any kind of tenure : that all other Estates held in fee where the like offence shall be committed , shall foorthwith fall and become forfeited to their immediate and next Lords : that all goods , possessions , and estates , as well of the combatants themselues , as of their seconds shall be confiscate . This Council doth necessarily presuppose , it lieth in the hand and power of the Church , to dispose of all the lands and estates , held in fee throughout all Christendome ; ( because the Church forsooth can take from one , and giue vnto an other all estates held in fee whatsoeuer , as well such as hold of the Church , as of secular Lords ) and to make ordinances for the confiscation of all priuate persons goods . By this Canon the Kingdome of Naples hath need to looke well vnto it selfe . For one duell it may fal into the Exchecker of the Romane Church : because that Kingdome payeth a Reliefe to the Church , as a Royaltie or Seignorie that holdeth in fee of the said Church . And in France there is not one Lordship , not one Mannor , not one farme which the Pope by this means cannot shift ouer to a new Lord. His Lordship therefore had carried himselfe and the cause much better , if in stead of seeking such idle shifts , he had by a more large assertion maintained the Popes power to dispose of priuate mens possessions , with no lesse right and authoritie then of Kingdomes . For what colour of reason can be giuen , for making the Pope Lord of the whole , and not of the parts ? for making him Lord of the forrest in grosse , and not of the trees in parcell ? for making him Lord of the whole house , and not of the parlour or the dining chamber ? His Lordship alleadgeth yet an other reason , but of no better weight : Betweene the power of priuate owners ouer their goods , and the power of Kings ouer their estates , there is no little difference . For the goods of priuate persons are ordained for their owners , and Princes for the benefit of their Common-wealths . Heare me now answer . If this Cardinal-reason hath any force to inferre , that a King may lawfully be depriued of his Kingdome for heresie , but a priuate person cannot for the same crime bee turned out of his mansion house ; then it shall follow by the same reason , that a Father for the same cause may be depriued of all power ouer his children , but a priuate owner cannot be depriued of his goods in the like case : because goods are ordained for the benefit and comfort of their owners , but fathers are ordained for the good and benefit of their children . But most certaine it is , that Kings representing the image of God in earth and Gods place , haue a better and closer seat in their chaires of Estate , then any priuate persons haue in the saddle of their inheritances and patrimonies , which are daily seene for sleight causes , to flit and to fall into the hands of newe Lords . Whereas a Prince beeing the Head , cannot be loosed in the proper ioynt , nor dismounted ; like a cannon when the carriage thereof is vnlockt , without a sore shaking and a most grieuous dislocation of all the members , yea without subuerting the whole bodie of the State , whereby priuate persons without number are inwrapped together in the same ruine : euen as the lower shrubs and other brush-wood are crushed in peices altogether by the fall of a great oake . But suppose his Lordships reason were somewhat ponderous and solide withall , yet a King ( which would not be forgotten ) is indowed not onely with the Kingdome , but also with auncient desmenes and Crowne-lands , for which none can be so simple to say , the King was ordained and created King ; which neuerthelesse he looseth when he looseth his Crowne . Admit againe this reason were of some pith , to make mighty Kings more easily deposeable then priuate persons from their patrimonies ; yet all this makes nothing for the deriuing and fetching of deposition from the Popes Consistorie . What hee neuer conferred , by what right or power can hee claime to take away ? But see here no doubt a sharpe and subtile difference put by the L. Cardinall betweene a Kingdome , and the goods of priuate persons . Goods , as his Lordship saith , are without life : they can be constrained by no force , by no example , by no inducement of their owners to loose eternall life : Subiects by their Princes may . Now I am of this contrary beleefe , That an hereticall owner , or master of a family , hath greater power and means withall , to seduce his owne seruants and children , then a Prince hath to peruert his owne subiects ; and yet for the contagion of heresie , and for corrupt religion , children are not remooued from their parents , nor seruants are taken away from their masters . Histories abound with examples of most flourishing Churches , vnder a Prince of contrary religion . And if things without life or soule are with lesse danger left in an heretikes hands ; why then shall not an hereticall King with more facilitie and lesse danger keep his Crown , his Royall charge , his lands , his customes , his imposts ? &c. For will any man , except he bee out of his wits , affirme these things to haue any life or soule ? Or why shall it be counted follie , to leaue a sword in the hand of a mad Bedlam ? Is not a sword also without life and soule ? For my part , I should rather be of this minde ; that possession of things without reason , is more dangerous and pernicious in the hands of an euill Master , then the possession of things indued with life and reason . For things without life lacke both reason and iudgement , how to exempt and free themselues from being instruments in euill and wicked actions , from beeing emploied to vngodly and abhominable vses . I will not deny , that an hereticall Prince is a plague , a pernicious and mortal sicknes to the soules of his subiects . But a breach made by one mischiefe , must not be filled vp with a greater inconuenience . An errour must not be shocked and shouldered with disloialtie , nor heresie with periurie , nor impietie with sedition and armed rebellion against God and the King. God , who vseth to try and to schoole his Church , will neuer forsake his Church : nor hath need to protect his Church by any proditorious and prodigious practises of perfidious Christians . For hee makes his Church to be like the burning bush . In the middest of the fire and flames of persecutions , he will prouide that she shall not bee consumed , because he standeth in the midst of his Church . And suppose there may bee some iust cause for the French , to play the rebels against their King ; yet will it not follow , that such rebellious motions are to be raised by the bellowes of the Romane Bishop , to whose Pastorall charge and office it is nothing proper , to intermeddle in the ciuill affaires of forraine Kingdomes . Here is the summe and substance of the L. Cardinals whole discourse , touching his pretence of the second inconuenience . Which discourse he hath closed with a remarkeable confession : to wit , that neither by the authoritie of holy Scripture , nor by the testimony and verdict of the Primitiue Church , there hath beene any full decision of this question . In regard whereof he falleth into admiration , that Lay-people haue gone so farre in audaciousnesse , as to labour that a doubtfull doctrine might for euer passe currant , and be taken for a newe article of faith . What a shame , what a reproach is this ? how full of scandall ? for so his Lordship is pleased to cry out . This breakes into the seueralls and inclosures of the Church : this lets in whole herds of heresies to grase in her green and sweet pastures . On the other side , without any such Rhetoricall outcries , I simply affirme : It is a reproach , a scandall , a crime of rebellion , for a subiect hauing his full charge and loade of benefits , in the newe spring of his Kings tender age , his King-fathers blood yet reeking , and vpon the point of an addresse for a double match with Spaine ; in so honourable an assembly , to seek the thraldome of his Kings Crown , to play the captious in cauilling about causes of his Kings deposing , to giue his former life the lie with shame enough in his olde age , and to make himselfe a common by-word , vnder the name of a Problematicall Martyr ; one that offers himselfe to fagot and fire for a point of doctrine but problematically handled , that is , distrustfully and onely by way of doubtfull and questionable discourse : yea for a point of doctrine , in which the French ( as he pretendeth ) are permitted to thwart and crosse his Holines in iudgement , prouided they speake in it as in a point not certaine and necessary , but onely doubtfull and probable . The third Jnconvenience examined . THE third Inconuenience pretended by the L. Cardinall to growe by admitting this Article of the third Estate , is flourished in these colours : It would breede and bring forth an open and vnauoideable schism against his Holinesse , and the rest of the whole Ecclesiasticall bodie . For thereby the doctrine long approoued and ratified by the Pope and the rest of the Church , should now be taxed and condemned of impious and most detestable consequence ; yea the Pope and the Church , euen in faith and in points of saluation , should be reputed and beleeued to be erroniously perswaded . Hereupon his Lordship giues himselfe a large scope of the raines , to frame his elegant amplifications against schismes and schismatikes . Now to mount so high , and to flie in such place vpon the wings of amplification for this Inconuenience , what is it else but magnifically to report and imagine a mischeife by many degrees greater then the mischeife is ? The L. Cardinal is in a great error , if he make himselfe beleeue , that other nations wil make a rent or separation from the communion of the French , because the French stand to it tooth and nayle , that French Crownes are not liable or obnoxious to Papall deposition ; howsoeuer there is no schisme that importeth not separation of communion . The most illustrious Republike of Venice , hath imbarked herselfe in this quarrell against his Holinesse ▪ hath played her prize , and carried away the weapons with great honour . Doth she , notwithstanding her triumph in the cause , forbeare to participate with all her neighbors in the same Sacraments ? doth she liue in schisme with all the rest of the Romane Church ? No such matter . When the L. Cardinal himselfe not many yeeres past , maintained the Kings cause , and stood honourably for the Kings right against the Popes Temporall vsurpations , did he then take other Churches to be schismaticall , or the rotten members of Antechrist ? Beleeue it who list , I beleeue my Creed . Nay , his Lordship telleth vs himselfe a little after , that his Holinesse giues the French free scope , to maintaine either the affirmatiue or negatiue of this question . And will his Holinesse hold them schismatikes , that dissent from his opinion and iudgement in a subiect or cause esteemed problematicall ? Farre be it from his Holinesse . The King of Spaine , reputed the Popes right arme , neuer gaue the Pope cause by any act or other declaration , to conceiue that hee acknowledged himselfe deposeable by the Pope for heresie , or Tyrannie , or stupidity . But beeing well assured the Pope standeth in greater feare of his arme , then he doth of the Popes head and shoulders , he neuer troubles his owne head about our question . More , when the booke of Cardinall Baronius was come forth , in which booke the Kingdome of Naples is decryed and publiquely discredited ( like false money ) touching the qualitie of a Kingdome , and attributed to the King of Spain , not as true proprietary thereof , but onely as an Estate held in fee of the Romane Church ; the King made no bones to condemne and to banish the said booke out of his dominions . The holy Father was contented to put vp his Catholike Sonnes proceeding to the Cardinalls disgrace , neuer opened his mouth against the King , neuer declared or noted the King to bee schismaticall . Hee waits perhaps for some fitter opportunitie ; when the Kingdome of Spaine groaning vnder the burthens of intestine dissentions and troubles , he may without any danger to himselfe giue the Catholike King a Bishops mate . Yea , the L. Cardinall himselfe is better seen in the humors and inclinations of the Christian world , then to be grossely perswaded , that in the Kingdome of Spaine , and in the very heart of Rome it selfe there be not many , which either make it but a ieast , or else take it in fowle scorne , to heare the Popes power ouer the Crownes of Kings once named : especially since the Venetian Republike hath put his Holinesse to the worse in the same cause , and cast him in Lawe . What needed the L. Cardinall then , by casting vp such mounts and trenches , by heaping one amplification vpon an other , to make schisme looke with such a terrible and hideous aspect ? Who knowes not how great an offence , how heinous a crime it is to quarter , not Iesus Christs coat , but his body , which is the Church ? And what needed such terrifying of the Church with vglinesse of schisme , whereof there is neither colourable shew , nor possibility ? The next vgly monster , after schisme , shaped by the L. Cardinall in the third supposed and pretended inconuenience , is heresie . His Lordship saith for the purpose : By this Article we are cast headlong into a manifest heresie , as binding vs to confesse , that for many ages past the Catholike Church hath been banished out of the whole world . For if the champions of the doctrine contrary to this Article , doe hold an impious and a detestable opinion , repugnant vnto Gods word ; then doubtlesse the Pope for so many hundred yeers expired , hath not been the head of the Church , but an heretike and the Antechrist . He addeth moreouer ; That the Church long agoe hath lost her name of Catholike , and that in France there hath no Church flourished , nor so much as appeared these many and more then many yeeres : for as much as all the French Doctors for many yeeres together haue stood for the contrary opinion . We can erect and set vp no trophey more honourable for heretikes in token of their victorie , then to avowe that Christs visible Kingdome is perished from the face of the earth , and that for so many hundred yeeres there hath not beene any Temple of God , nor any spouse of Christ , but euery where , and all the world ouer , the Kingdome of Antechrist , the Synagogue of Satan , the spouse of the Deuill , hath mightily preuailed and borne all the sway . Lastly , what stronger engines can these heretikes wish or desire , for the battering and the demolishing of transubstantiation , of auricular confession , and other like towers of our Catholike religion , then if it should bee graunted the Church hath decided the said points without any authoritie ? &c. Me thinkes the Lord Cardinall in the whole draught and course of these words , doth seeke not a little to blemish the honour of his Church , and to marke his religion with a blacke coale . For the whole frame of his mother-Church is very easie to be shaken , if by the establishing of this Article she shall come to finall ruine and shall become the Synagoue of Satan . Likewise , Kings are brought into a very miserable state and condition , if their Soueraigntie shall not stand , if they shall not be without danger of deposition , but by the totall ruine of the Church , and by holding the Pope , whome they serue , to be Antechrist . The L. Cardinall himselfe ( let him be well sifted ) herein doth not credit his owne words . For doth not his Lordship tell vs plaine , that neither by diuine testimonie , nor by any sentence of the ancient Church , the knot of this controuersie hath been vntyed ? againe , that some of the French , by the Popes fauourable indulgence , are licensed or tolerated to say their mind , to deliuer their opinion of this question , though contrarie to the iudgement of his Holines ; prouided they hold it onely as problematicall , and not as necessary ? What ? Can there be any assurance for the Pope , that he is not Antechrist ; for the Church of Rome , that she is not a Synagogue of Satan , when a mans assurance is grounded vpon wauering and wild vncertanties , without Canon of Scrpture , without consent or countenance of antiquity , and in a cause which the Pope with good leaue suffereth some to tosse with winds of problematicall opinion ? It hath beene shewed before , that by Gods word , whereof small reckoning perhaps is made , by venerable antiquity , and by the French Church in those times when the Popes power was mounted aloft , the doctrine which teaches deposing of Kings by the Pope , hath been checked and countermaunded . What , did the French in those dayes beleeue , the Church was then swallowed vp , and no where visible or extant in the world ? No verily . Those that make the Pope of Soueraigne authoritie for matters of faith , are not perswaded that in this cause they are bound absolutely to beleeue and credit his doctrine . Why so ? Because they take it not for any decree or determination of faith ; but for a point pertaining to the mysteries of State , and a pillar of the Popes Temporal Monarchy ; who hath not receiued any promise from God , that in causes of this nature hee shall not erre . For they hold , that errour by no meanes can crawle or scramble vp to the Papall See , so highly mounted ; but graunt ambition can scale the highest walls , and climbe the loftiest pinnacles of the same See. They hold withall , that in a case of so speciall aduantage to the Pope , whereby he is made King of Kings , and as it were the pay-master or distributer of Crownes , it is against all reason that hee should sit as Iudge , to carue out Kingdoms for his own share . To be short , let his Lordship be assured that he meets with notorious blocke-heads , more blunt witted then a whetstone , when they are drawne to beleeue by his perswasion , that whosoeuer beleeues the Pope hath no right nor power to put Kings beside their Thrones , to giue and take away Crownes , are all excluded and barred out of the heauenly Kingdome . But now followes a worse matter : For they whome the Cardinall reproachfully calls heretikes , haue wrought and wonne his Lordship ( as to me seemeth ) to plead their cause at the barre , and to betray his owne cause to these heretikes . For what is it in his Lordship , but plaine playing the Praeuaricator , when he cryeth so loud , that by admitting and establishing of this Article , the doctrine of cake-incarnation and priuy Confession to a Priest , is vtterly subuerted ? Let vs heare his reason , and willingly accept of the truth from his lips . The Articles ( as his Lordshippe graunteth ) of Transubstantiation , auricular Confession , and the Popes power to depose Kings , are all grounded alike vpon the same authoritie . Now he hath acknowledged the Article of the Popes power to depose Kings , is not decided by the Scripture , nor by the auncient Church , but within the compasse of certaine ages past , by the authority of Popes and Councils . Then he goes on well , and inferres with good reason , that in case the point of the Popes power be weakned , then the other two points must needs bee shaken , and easily ouerthrowne . So that he doth confesse the monstrous birth of the breaden-God , and the blind Sacrament or vaine phantasie of auricular confession , are no more conueyed into the Church by pipes from the springs of sacred Scripture , or from the riuers of the auncient Church , then that other point of the Popes power ouer Kings and their Crownes . Very good : For were they indeede deriued from either of those two heads , that is to say , were they grounded vpon the foundation of the first or second authoritie ; then they could neuer be shaken by the downefall of the Popes power to depose Kings . I am well assured , that for vsing so good a reason , the world will hold his Lordshippe in suspicion , that he still hath some smacke of his fathers discipline and instruction , who in times past had the honour to be a Minister of the holy Gospel . Howbeit he playeth not faire , nor vseth sincere dealing in his proceeding against such as he calls heretikes ; when he casts in their dish , and beares them in hand they frowardly wrangle for the inuisibilitie of the Church in earth . For indeed the matter is nothing so . They freely acknowledge a visible Church . For howsoeuer the assembly of Gods elect , doth make a bodie not discernable by mans eye : yet we assuredly beleeue , and gladly professe , there neuer wanted a visible Church in the world ; yet onely visible to such as make a part of the same . All that are without see no more but men , they doe not see the said men to be the true Church . We beleeue moreouer of the vniuersall Church visible , that it is composed of many particular Churches , whereof some are better fined and more cleane from lees and dregs then other : and withall , we deny the purest Churches to be alwaies the greatest and most visible . The fourth and last Inconuenience examined . THE Lord Cardinall before he looketh into the last Inconuenience , vseth a certaine preamble of his owne life past , and seruices done to the Kings , Henry the III. and IIII. Touching the latter of which two Kings , his Lordship saith in a straine of boasting , after this manner : I , by the grace of God , or the grace of God by me rather , reduced him to the Catholike religion . I obtained at Rome his absolution of Pope Clement 8. I reconciled him to the holy See. Touching the first of these points ; I say the time , the occasions , and the foresaid Kings necessary affaires doe sufficiently testifie , that he was induced to change his mind , and to alter his religion , vpon the strength of other manner of arguments then Theologicall schooles , or the perswasions of the L. Cardinals fluent Rhetoricke , do vsually afford , or could possibly suggest . Moreouer , who doth not know , that in affaires of so high nature and consequence , resolutions once taken , Princes are to proceede with instructions by a formall course ? As for the Kings absolution , pretended to bee purchased of Clement 8. by the L. Cardinals good seruice ; it had beene the part of so great a Cardinall , for the honour of his King , of the Realme , and of his owne place , to haue buried that peice of his notable seruice in perpetuall silence , and in the darke night of eternall obliuion . For in this matter of reconcilement , it is not vnknowne to the world , how shamefully and basely he prostituted the inuiolable dignity of his King , when his Lordship representing the person of his King , and couching on the ground , by way of sufficient penance , was glad ( as I haue noted in the Preface to my Apologie ) to haue his venerable shoulders gracefully saluted with stripes , and reuerently worshipped with bastonados of a Pontificiall cudgell . Which gracefull , or disgracefull blemish rather , it pleased Pope Clement of his rare clemencie , to grace yet with a higher degre of spirituall graces : in giuing the L. Cardinall then Bishop of Eureux , a certaine quantity of holy graines , crosses , and medals , or little plates of siluer , or some other mettall , to hang about the necke , or to be born about against some euil . Which treasures of the Popes grace , whosoeuer should graciously and reuerently kisse , they should without faile purchase vnto themselues a pardon for one hundred yeeres . These feate and prety gugawes for children , were no doubt a speciall comfort vnto the good Kings heart , after his Maiestie had been handsomely basted vpon the L. Bishops backe . But with what face can his Lordship brag , that he preuailed with Pope Clement for the Kings absolution ? The late Duke of Neuers , not long before had solicited his Holines , with all earnest and humble instance to the same purpose ; howsoeuer , the Kings affaires then seeming desperate in the Popes eye , hee was licensed to depart for France , without any due and gracious respect vnto his errand . But so soone as the Pope receiued intelligence , of the Kings fortunes growing to the full , and the affaires of the League to be in the wane , and the principall cities , the strongest places of garrison through all France to strike tops and tops gallant , and to hale the King ; then the holy Ghost in good time inspired the holy Father with a holy desire and tender affection , to receiue this poore wandring sheep againe into the flocke of Christ , and bosome of holy Church . His Holinesse had reason . For he feared by his obstinate seuerity to prouoke the patience of the French , and to driue that Nation ( as they had many times threatned before ) then to put in execution their auncient designe ; which was , to shake off the Pope , and to set vp some of their owne tribes or kinreds for Patriarch ouer the French Church . But let his Lordshippe vouchsafe to search the secret of his owne bosome , and no doubt he will not sticke to acknowledge , that before hee stirred one foote out of France , he had good assurance of the good successe and issue of his honourable embassage . Now the hearers thus prepared by his Preface , the L. Cardinall proceedeth in his purpose ; namely to make proofe , how this Article of the third Estate , wherein doubtfull and questionable matters are mingled and confounded with certaine and indubitable principles , doth so debilitate and weaken the sinewes and vertue of any remedy intended for the danger of Kings , as it maketh all remedies and receipts prescribed for that purpose , to become altogether vnprofitable , and without effect . He yeelds this reason , ( take it forsooth vpon my warrant ) a reason full of pith and substance : The onely remedie against parricides , is to thunder the solemne curses of the Church , and the punishments to bee inflicted after death : which points , if they be not grounded vpon infallible authoritie , wil neuer be setled in mens perswasions with any certaine assurance . Now in the solemne curses of the Church , no man can attaine to the said assurance , if things not denied bee mingled with points not graunted , and not consented vnto by the Vniuersall Church . By a thing not denied and not contested , the L. Cardinall meanes prohibiting and condemning of King-killing : & by points contested , hee meanes denying of the Popes power to depose Kings . In this whole discourse , I find neither pith of argument , nor course of proofe ; but onely a cast of the L. Cardinalls office by way of counsell : whereunto I make this answer . If there be in this Article of the third Estate any point , wherein all are not of one mind and the same iudgement ; in whome lieth all the blame , from whence rises the doubt , but from the Popes and Popish parasites , by whome the certaintie of the said point hath been cunningly remooued and conueied away , and must bee restored againe by publike authoritie ? Now the way to restore certaintie vnto a point , which against reason is called into doubt and question , is to make it vp in one masse , or to tie it vp in the same bundle , with other certaine points of the same nature . Here I am forced to summon the consciences of men , to make some stand or stay vpon this point , and with me to enter into deepe consideration , how great and vnvanquishable force is euer found in the truth . For these two questions , Whether Kings may lawfully bee made away by assassins waged and hired for the act ; and Whether the Pope hath lawful power to chase Kings out of their Thrones , are by the L. Cardinals owne confession , in so full aspect of coniunction , that if either bee brought vnder any degree of doubt , the other also is fetcht within the same compasse . In which words he directly pointeth as with a finger to the very true source of the maine mischiefe , and to the basilique and liuer veine , infected with pestilentiall blood , inflamed to the destruction of Basilicall Princes by detestable parricide . For whosoeuer shall confidently beleeue that Popes are not armed with power to depose Kings ; will beleeue with no lesse confidence and assurance , it is not lawfull by sudden assaults to flie at their throats . For are not all desperate villaines perswaded , when they are hired to murder Kings , that in doing so damnable a feate , they doe it for a peice of notable and extraordinarie seruice to the Pope ? This maxime therefore is to be held for a principle vnmooueable and indubitable ; that , If subiects desire the life of their Kings to be secured ; they must not yeeld the Pope one inch of power , to depriue their Kings of their Thrones and Crownes , by deposing their Kings . The Lord Cardinall testifieth no lesse himselfe in these words : If those monsters of men , and furies of hell , by whom the life-blood of our two last Kings was let out , had euer been acquainted with Lawes Ecclesiasticall , they might haue read themselues adiudged by the Councill of Constance to expresse damnation . For in these words , the L. Cardinall preferreth a bill of inditement to cast his Holinesse ; who , vpon the commencing of the Leaguers warres , in stead of giuing order for the publishing of the said Ecclesiasticall Lawes for the restraining of all parricidicall practises and attempts , fell to the terrour of his fulminations , which not long after were seconded and ratified by the most audacious and bloody murder of King Henry III. In like manner , the whole Clergy of France are wrapped vp by the L. Cardinals words , and inuolued in the perill of the said inditement . For in stead of preaching the said Ecclesiasticall Lawes , by which all King-killing is inhibited ; the Priests taught , vented , and published nothing but rebellion ; and when the people in great deuotion came to powre their confessions into the Priests eares ; then the Priests , with a kind of counterbuffe in the second place when their turne was come , and with greater deuotion , powred blood into the eares of the people : out of which roote grewe the terrour of those cruell warres , and the horrible parricide of that good King. But let vs here take some neere sight of these Ecclesiasticall Lawes , whereby subiects are inhibited to kill , or desperately to dispatch their Kings out of the way . The L. Cardinall , for full payment of all scores vpon this reckoning , layeth downe the credit of the Council at Constance , which neuerthelesse affoardeth not one myte of true and currant payment . The truth of the historie may be taken from this briefe relation . Iohn Duke of Burgundie , procured Lewis Duke of Orleans to be murthered in Paris . To iustifie and make good this bloody act , hee produced a certaine petimaster , one called by the name of Iohn Petit . This little Iohn caused nine propositions to be giuen forth or set vp , to be discussed in the famous Vniuersitie of Paris . The summe of all to this purpose : It is lawfull , iust , and honourable , for euery subiect or priuate person , either by open force and violence , or by deceit and secret lying in wait , or by some witty stratagem , or by any other way of fact , to kill a Tyrant practising against his King and other higher powers : yea the King ought in reason , to giue him a pension or stipend , that hath killed any person disloyall to his Prince . The words of Petits first proposition be these : It is lawfull for euery subiect , without any commaund or commission from the higher powers , by all the Lawes of nature , of man , and of God himselfe , to kill or cause to be killed any Tyrant , who either by a couetous and greedie desire , or by fraud , by diuination vpon casting of lots , by double and treacherous dealing , doth plot or practise against his Kings corporall health , or the health of his higher powers . In the third proposition : It is lawfull for euery subiect , honourable and meritorious , to kill the said Tyrant , or cause him to bee killed as a Traitor , disloyall and trecherous to his King. In the sixt proposition : The King is to appoint a salarie and recompence for him that hath killed such a Tyrant , or hath caused him to be killed . These propositions of Iohannes Parvus , were condemned by the Councill of Constance , as impious , and tending to the scandall of the Church . Now then , whereas the said Councill no doubt vnderstood the name or word Tyrant in the same sense , wherein it was taken by Iohannes Parvus ; certaine it is , the Councill was not of any such iudgment or mind , to condemne one that should kil a King or Soueraigne Prince ; but one that by treason , and without commandement should kill a subiect , rebelling and practising against his King. For Iohn Petit had vndertaken to iustifie the making away of the Duke of Orleans to bee a lawfull act , and calls that Duke a Tyrant , albeit he was no Soueraigne Prince ; as all the aboue recited words of Iohn Petit doe testifie , that hee speaketh of such a Tyrant , as beeing in state of subiection rebelleth against his free and absolute Prince . So that whosoeuer shall narrowly search and looke into the minde and meaning of the said Councill , shall easily perceiue , that by their decrees the safetie of Kings was not confirmed but weakned , not augmented but diminished : for as much as they inhibited priuate persons to kill a subiect , attempting by wicked counsells and practises to make away his King. But be it graunted , the Council of Constance is flat and altogether direct against King-killers . For I am not vnwilling to be perswaded , that had the question then touched the murdering of Soueraign Princes , the said Council would haue passed a sound and holy decree . But , I say , this graunted , what sheild of defence is hereby reached to Kings , to ward or beat off the thrusts of a murderers weapon , and to saue or secure their life ? seeing the L. Cardinal , building vpon the subtile deuise and shift of the Iesuites , hath taught vs out of their Schooles , that by Kings are vnderstood Kings in esse , not yet fallen from the supreame degree of Soueraigne Royalty . For beeing once deposed by the Pope , ( say the Iesuites ) they are no longer Kings , but are fallen from the rights of Soueraigne dignity ; and consequently to make strip and wast of their blood , is not forsooth to make strip and wast of Royall blood . These Iesuiticall masters , in the file of their words are so supple and so limber , that by leauing still in their speech some starting hole or other , they are able by the same , as by a posterne or back-doore , to make an escape . Meane while the Readers are here to note ( for well they may ) a tricke of monstrous and most wicked cunning . The L. Cardinall contends for the bridling and hampering of King-killers by the Lawes Ecclesiasticall . Now it might be presumed , that so reuerend and learned a Cardinal intending to make vse of Ecclesiasticall laws , by vertue whereof the life of Kings may be secured , would fill his mouth and garnish the point with diuine Oracles , that wee might the more gladly and willingly giue him the hearing , when he speakes as one furnished with sufficient weight and authoritie of sacred Scripture . But behold , in stead of the authenticall and most auncient word , he propounds the decree of a late-borne Councill at Constance , neither for the Popes tooth , nor any way comming neere the point in controuersie . And suppose it were pertinent vnto the purpose , the L. Cardinall beareth in his hand a forke of distinction , with two tines or teeth to beare off , nay to shift off and to avoide the matter with meere dalliance . The shortest and neerest way ( in some sort of respects ) to establish a false opinion , is to charge or set vpon it with false and with ridiculous reasons . The like way to worke the ouerthrow of true doctrine , is to rest or ground it vpon friuolous reasons or authorities of stubble-weight . For example ; if wee should thus argue for the immortality of the soule with Plato : The swan singeth before her death ; ergo , the soule is immortall . Or thus with certain seduced Christians : The Pope hath ordained the word of God to be authenticall : ergo , all credit must be giuen to diuine Scripture . Vpon the spurkies or hookes of such ridiculous arguments and friuolous reasons , the L. Cardinall hangs the life and safetie of Kings . With like artificiall deuises he pretendeth to haue the infamous murders , and apposted cutting of Kings throats in extreame detestation ; and yet by deposing them from their Princely dignities , by degrading them from their supreme and Soueraigne authorities , he brings their sacred heads to the butchers blocke . For a King deposed by the Pope , ( let no man doubt ) will not leaue any stone vnremooued , nor any meanes and wayes vnattempted , nor any forces or powers of men vnleuied or vnhired , to defend himselfe and his Regall dignitie , to represse and bring vnder his rebellious people , by the Pope discharged of their allegiance . In this perplexitie of the publike affaires , in these tempestuous perturbations of the State , with what perills is the King not besieged and assaulted ? His head is exposed to the chances of warre ; his life a faire marke to the insidious practises of a thousand traytors ; his Royall person obuious to the dreadfull storme of angry fortune , to the deadly malice , to the fatall and mortall weapons of his enemies . The reason : He is presupposed to be lawfully and orderly stripped of his Kingdome . Wil he yet hold the sterne of his Royall estate ? Then is he necessarily taken for a Tyrant , reputed an vsurper , and his life is exposed to the spoyle . For the publike lawes make it lawfull and free , for any priuate person to enterprise against an vsurper of the Kingdome : Euery man , saith Tertullian , is a souldier , to beare armes against all Traytors and publike enemies . Take from a King the title of lawful King , you take from him the warrant of his life , and the weapons whereby he is maintained in greater security , then by his Royall Guard armed with swords and halbards , through whose wards and rankes , a desperate villaine will make himselfe an easie passage , beeing master of an other mans life , because he is prodigall and carelesse of his owne . Such therefore as pretend so much pittie towards Kings , to abhorre the bloody opening of their liuer-veine , and yet withall to approoue their hoysting out of the Royall dignity ; are iust in the vaine and humour of those that say , Let vs not kill the King , but let vs disarme the King that he may die a violent death : let vs not depriue him of life , but of the meanes to defend his life : let vs not strangle the King and stoppe his vitall breath , so long as he remaineth King ; O that were impious , O that were horrible and abhominable ; but let him bee deposed , and then whosoeuer shall runne him through the body with a weapon vp to the very hilts , shall not beare the guilt of a King-killer . All this must be vnderstood to be spoken of Kings , who after they are despoyled of Regalitie , by sentence of deposition giuen by the Pope , are able to arme themselues , and by valiant armes doe defend their Soueraigne rights . But in case the King , blasted with Romane lightning , and stricken with Papall thunder , shall actually and speedily bee smitten downe from his high Throne of Regality , with present losse of his Kingdome ; I beleeue it is almost impossible for him to warrant his owne life , who was not able to warrant his own Kingdome . Let a cat be throwne from a high roofe to the bottome of a cellour or vault , she lighteth on her feete , and runneth away without taking any harme . A King is not like a cat , howsoeuer a cat may looke vpon a King : he cannot fall from the loftie pinnacle of Royaltie , to light on his feet vpon the hard pauement of a priuate state , without crushing all his bones in peices . It hath been the lot of very few Emperours and Kings , to outliue their Empire . For men ascend to the lofty Throne of Kings , with a soft and easie pace , by certaine steps and degrees ; there be no stately staires to come downe , they tumble head and heeles together when they fall . He that hath once griped anothers Kingdom , thinks himselfe in little safetie , so long as he shall of his courtesy suffer his disseised predecessor to draw his breath . And say that some Princes , after their fall from their Thrones , haue escaped both point and edge of the Tyrants weapon ; yet haue they wandred like miserable fugitiues in forraine countryes , or else haue beene condemned like captiues to perpetuall imprisonment at home , a thousand-fold worse and more lamentable then death it selfe . Dyonisius the Tyrant of Syracusa , from a great King in Sicilie turn'd School-master in Corinth . It was the onely calling & kind of life , that as he thought bearing some resemblance of rule and gouernment , might recreate his mind , as an image or picture of his former Soueraigntie ouer men . This Dyonisius was the onely man ( to my knowledge ) that had a humour to laugh after the losse of a Kingdome , and in the state of a Pedant or gouernour of children , merily to ieast and to scorne his former state and condition of a King. In this my Kingdome of England , sundry Kings haue seen the walls as it were of their Princely fortresse dismantled , razed , and beaten downe . By name , Edward and Richard , both II. and Henrie VI. all which Kings were most cruelly murdered in prison . In the raigne of Edward III. by act of Parliament , whosoeuer shal imagine , ( that is the very word of the Statute ) or machinate the Kings death , are declared guilty of rebellion and high treason . The learned Iudges of the Land , grounding vpon this law of Edward the third , haue euer since reputed and iudged them traytors according to Law , that haue dared onely to whisper or talke softly between the teeth , of deposing the King. For they count it a cleare case , that no Crowne can be taken from a Kings head , without losse of Head and Crowne together , sooner or later . The L. Cardinall therefore in this most weighty and serious point doth meerely dally , and flowt after a sort , when he tels vs , The Church doth not intermeddle with releasing of subiects , and knocking off their yrons of obedience , but onely before the Ecclesiasticall tribunall seate ; and that besides this double censure , of absolution to subiects , and excommunication to the Prince , the Church imposeth none other penaltie . Vnder pretence of which two censures , so far is the Church ( as the L. Cardinal pretendeth ) from consenting that any man so censured should be touched for his life , that shee vtterly abhorreth all murder whatsoeuer ; but especially all sudden and vnprepenced murders , for feare of casting away both body and soule ; which often in sudden murders goe both one way . It hath been made manifest before , that all such proscription and setting forth of Kings to port-sale , hath alwaies for the traine thereof , either some violent and bloody death , or some other mischiefe more intolerable then death it selfe . What are we the better , that parricides of Kings are neither set on , nor approoued by the Church in their abhominable actions ; when she layeth such plots , and taketh such courses , as necessarily doe inferre the cutting of their throates ? In the next place be it noted , that his Lordship against all reason , reckons the absoluing of subiects from the oath of allegiance , in the ranke of penalties awarded and enioyned before the Ecclesiasticall tribunall seate . For this penaltie is not Ecclesiasticall , but Ciuill , and consequently not triable in Ecclesiasticall Courts , without vsurping vpon the ciuill Magistrate . But I wonder with what face the Lord Cardinall can say , the Church neuer consenteth to any practise against his life , whome she hath once chastised with seuere censures . For can his Lordship be ignorant , what is written by Pope Vrbanus , Can. Excommunicatorum . We take them not in any wise to be man-slayers , who in a certain heate of zeale towards the Catholike Church their Mother , shall happen to kill an excomunicate person . More , if the Pope doth not approoue and like the practise of King-killing , wherefore hath not his Holinesse imposed some seuere censure vpon the booke of Mariana the Iesuite ( by whome parricides are commended , nay highly extolled ) when his Holines hath been pleased to take the paines , to censure and call in some other of Mariana's bookes ? Againe , wherefore did his Holines aduise himselfe , to censure the decree of the Court of Parliament in Paris against Iohn Chastell ? Wherefore did he suffer Garnet and Oldcorne my powder-miners , both by bookes and pictures vendible vnder his nose in Rome , to be inrowled in the Canon of holy Martyrs ? And when he saw two great Kings murdered one after an other , wherfore by some publike declaration did not his Holinesse testifie to all Christendome , his inward sense and true apprehension of so great misfortune , as all Europe had iust cause to lament on the behalfe of France ? Wherefore did not his Holinesse publish some Lawe or Pontificiall decree , to prouide for the securitie of Kings in time to come ? True it is that he censured Becanus his booke . But wherefore ? That by a captious and sleight censure , he might preuent a more exact and rigorous decree of the Sorbon Schoole . For the Popes checke to Becanus , was onely a generall censure and touch , without any particular specification of matter touching the life of Kings . About some two moneths after , the said book was printed againe , with a dedication to the Popes Nuntio in Germany ; yet without any alteration , saue onely of two articles containing the absolute power of the people ouer Kings . In recompence and for a counterchecke whereof , three or fowre articles were inserted into the said book , touching the Popes power ouer Kings ; articlcs no lesse wicked and iniurious to Regall rights ; nay more iniurious then any of the other clauses , whereof iust cause of exception and complaint had been giuen before . If I would collect and heape vp examples of auncient Emperours , ( as of Henrie IV. whos 's dead corps felt the rage and fury of the Pope ; or of Frederic 2. against whome the Pope was not ashamed to whet and kindle the Sultane ; or of Queen Elizabeth our Predecessour , of glorious memorie , whose life was diuers times assaulted by priuie murderers , expressely dispatched from Rome for that holy seruice ) if I would gather vp other examples of the same stampe , which I haue laid forth in my Apology for the oth of allegiance ; I could make it more cleare then day-light , how farre the L. Cardinals words are discrepant from the truth , where his Lordship out of most rare confidence is bold to avowe , That neuer any Pope went so farre , as to giue consent or counsell for the desperate murdering of Princes . That which already hath beene alleadged may suffice to conuince his Lordship : I meane , that his Holinesse by deposing of Kings , doth lead them directly to their graues and tombes . The Cardinal himselfe seemeth to take some notice hereof . The Church ( as he speaketh ) abhorreth sudden and vnprepensed murders aboue the rest . Doth not his Lordship in this phrase of speech acknowledge , that murders committed by open force , are not so much disavowed or disclaimed by the Church ? A little after he speakes not in the teeth , as before , but with full and open mouth : that he doth not dislike a King once deposed by the Pope , should be pursued with open warre . Whereupon it followes , that in warre the King may be lawfully slaine . No doubt a remarkeable degree of his Lordships clemencie . A King shall be better entreated and more mildly dealt withall , if he be slaine by the shot of an harquebuse or caleeuer in the field , then if he be stabd by the stroke or thrust of a knife in his chamber : or if at a siege of some city he be blown vp with a myne , then by a myne made , and a train of gunpowder laid vnder his Palace or Parliament house in time of peace . His reason : Forsooth , because in sudden murders , oftentimes the soule & the bodie perish both together . O singular bounty , and rare clemencie ! prouokers , instigators , strong puffers and blowers of parricides , in mercifull compassion of the soule , become vnmercifull and shamefull murderers of the body . This deuice may well claime and challenge kinred of Mariana the Iesuites inuention . For he liketh not at any hand the poisoning of a Tyrant by his meate or drinke ; for feare least he taking the poison with his owne hand , and swallowing or gulping it down in his meat or drinke so taken , should be found felo de se , ( as the common Lawyer speaketh ) or culpable of his owne death . But Mariana likes better , to haue a Tyrant poysoned by his chaire , or by his apparell and robes , after the example of the Mauritanian Kings ; that beeing so poysoned onely by sent , or by contact , he may not be found guilty of selfe-fellonie , and the soule of the poore Tyrant in her flight out of the body may be innocent . O hell-hounds , O diabolicall wretches , O infernall monsters ! Did they onely suspect and imagine , that either in Kings there is any remainder of Kingly courage , or in their subiects any sparke left of auncient libertie ; they durst as soon eate their nayles , or teare their owne flesh from the bones , as once broach the vessell of this Diabolicall deuice . How long then , how long shall Kings whom the Lord hath called his Anointed , Kings the breathing images of God vpon earth ; Kings that with a wry or frowning looke , are able to crush these earth-wormes in peices ; how long shall they suffer this viperous brood , scot-free and without punishment , to spit in their faces ? how long , the Maiestie of God in their person and Royall Maiestie to bee so notoriously vilified , so dishonourably trampled vnder foote ? The L. Cardinall bourds vs with a like manifest ieast , and notably trifles ; first , distinguishing between Tyrants by administration , and Tyrants by vsurpation ; then shewing that he by no meanes doth approoue those prophane and heathenish Lawes , whereby secret practises and conspiracies against a Tyrant by administration are permitted . His reason . Because after deposition there is a certaine habitude to Royall dignitie , and as it were a kind of politicke character inherent in Kings , by which they are discerned from persons meerely priuate , or the common sort of people ; and the obstacle , crosse-barre , or sparre once remooued and taken out of the way , the said Kings deposed are at length reinuested and endowed againe with lawfull vse of Royall dignitie , and with lawfull administration of the Kingdome . Is it possible that his Lordship can speake and vtter these words according to the inward perswasion of his heart ? I beleeue it not . For admit a King cast out of his Kingdom were sure to escape with life ; yet beeing once reduced to a priuate state of life , after hee hath wound or wrought himselfe out of deadly danger , so farre he is from holding or retayning any remainder of dignity or politike impression , that on the contrary he falleth into greater contempt and misery , then if he had beene a very peasant by birth , and had neuer held or gouerned the sterne of Royall estate . What fowle is more beautifull then the peacocke ? Let her be plumed and bereft of her feathers ; what owle , what iacke-daw more ridiculous , more without all pleasant fashion ? The homely sowter , the infamous catchpol , the base tincker , the rude artificer , the pack-horse-porter , then liuing in Rome with liberty , when Valentinian was detaind captiue by Saporas the Persian King , was more happy then that Romane Emperour . And in case the Lord Cardinall himselfe should be so happy ( I should say so vnfortunate ) to be stript of all his dignities and Ecclesiastical promotions ; would it not redound to his Lordships wonderfull consolation , that in his greatest extremitie , in the lowest of his barenesse and nakednesse , he still retaineth a certaine habituall right and character of a Cardinall , whereby to recouer the losse of his former dignities and honours ? when hee beholds these prints and impressions of his foresaid honours ; would it not make him the more willing and glad , to forsake the backe of his venerable mule , to vse his Cardinals foot-cloath no longer , but euer after like a Cardinall in print and character , to walke on foote ? But let vs examine his Lordships consolation of Kings , thrust out of their kingdomes by the Pope for heresie . The obstacle ( as the L. Cardinall speaketh ) beeing taken away ; that is to say , when the King shal be reformed ; this habituall right and character yet inherent in the person of a King , restores him to the lawfull administration of his Kingdome . I take this to be but a cold comfort . For here his Lordship doth onely presuppose , and not prooue , that after a King is thrust out of his Throne , when he shall repent and turne true Romane Catholike , the other by whome he hath been cast out , and by force disseised , will recall him to the Royal seate , and faithfully settle him againe in his auncient right , as one that reioyceth for the recouery of such a lost sheep . But I should rather feare , the new King would presse and stand vpon other termes ; as a terme of yeeres for a triall , whether the repentance of the King displaced be true and sound to the coare , or counterfeit , dissembled , and painted holines ; for the words , the sorrowfull and heauy lookes , the sadde and formal gestures , of men pretending repentance , are not alwaies to be taken , to be respected , to be credited . Again , I should feare the afflicted King might be charged and borne downe too , that albeit he hath renounced his former heresie , he hath stumbled since at an other stone , and runne the ship of his faith against some other rock of new hereticall prauitie . Or I should yet feare , he might be made to beleeue , that heresie maketh a deeper impression , and a character more indeleble in the person , then is the other politike character of Regall Maiesty . Alas , good Kings ! in how hard , in how miserable a state doe they stand ? Once deposed , and euer barred of repentance . As if the scapes and errors of Kings , were all sinnes against the Holy Ghost , or sinnes vnto death , for which it is not lawfull to pray . Falls a priuate person ? he may be set vp , and new established . Fals a King ? is a King deposed ? his repentance is euer fruitles , euer vnprofitable . Hath a priuate person a trayne of seruants ? He can not be depriued of any one without his priuity and consent . Hath a King millions of subiects ? He may be depriued by the Pope of a third part , when his Holinesse will haue them turne Clerics or enter cloisters , without asking the King leaue : & so of subiects they may be made nonsubiects . But I question yet further . A King falling into heresie , is deposed by the Pope ; his sonne stands pure Catholike . The Regall seate is empty . Who shall succeed in the deposed Kings place ? Shall a stranger be preferred by the Pope ? That were to do the innocent sonne egregious and notorious wrong . Shall the sonne himselfe ? That were a more iniurious part in the sonne against his father . For if the sonne be touched with any feare of God , or mooued with any reuerence towards his Father , he will diligently and seriously take heed , that he put not his Father by the Kingdome , by whose meanes he himselfe is borne to a Kingdome . Nor will he tread in the steps of Henry V. Emperour , who by the Popes instigation , expelled and chased his aged father out of the Imperiall dignity . Much lesse will he hearken to the voice & aduise of Doctor Suares the Iesuite ; who , in his booke written against my selfe , a book applauded and approoued of many Doctors , after he hath like a Doctor of the chaire , pronounced , That a King deposed by the Pope , cannot bee lawfully expelled or killed , but onely by such as the Pope hath charged with such execution : falleth to adde a little after : If the Pope shall declare a King to be an heretike , and fallen from the Kingdome , without making further declaration touching execution ; that is to say , without giuing expresse charge vnto any to make away the King : then the lawfull successor beeing a Catholike , hath power to do the feate ; and if he shall refuse , or if there shall bee none such , then it appertaineth to the comminaltie or body of the Kingdome . A most detestable sentence . For in hereditarie Kingdoms , who is the Kings lawfull successor , but his sonne ? The sonne then by this doctrine , shall imbrew his hands in his owne fathers blood , so soone as he shall be deposed by the Pope . A matter so much the neerer and more deepely to be apprehended , because the said most outragious booke flyeth like a furious mastiffe directly at my throat , and withal instilleth such precepts into the tender disposition of my sonne , as if hereafter he shall become a Romane Catholike , so soone as the Pope shall giue me the lift out of my Throne , shall bind him forthwith to make effusion of his owne fathers blood . Such is the religion of these Reuerend Fathers , the pillars of the Pontificiall Monarchie . In comparison of whose religion and holinesse , all the impietie that euer was among the Infidels , and all the barbarous cruelty that euer was among the Canibals , may passe henceforth in the Christian world for pure clemencie and humanity . These things ought his Lordship to haue pondered , rather then to babble of habitudes and politike characters , which to the common people are like the Bergamasque or the wild-Irish forme of speech , and passe their vnderstanding . All these things are nothng in a manner , if we compare them with the last clause , which is the closer , and as it were the vpshot of his Lordships discourse . For therein he laboureth to perswade concerning this Article , framed to bridle the Popes tyrannicall power ouer Kings , if it should receiue gratious entertainment , and general approbation ; That it would breed great danger , and worke effects of pernicious consequence vnto Kings . The reason : because it would prooue an introduction to schisme ; and schisme would stirre vp ciuill warres , contempt of Kings , distempered inclinations and motions to intrappe their life ; and which is worst of all , the fierce wrath of God , inflicting all sorts of calamities . An admirable paradoxe , and able to strike men stone-blind : that his Holinesse must haue power to depose Kings , for the better security and safegard of their life ; that when their Crownes are made subiect vnto an others will and pleasure , then they are come to the highest altitude and eleuation of honour ; that for the onely warrant of their life , their supreame and absolute greatnes must be depressed ; that for the longer keeping of their Crownes , an other must plucke the Crowne from their heads . As if it should be said , Would they not be stript naked by an other ? the best way is , for themselues to vntrusse , for themselues to put off all , and to goe naked of their owne accord . Will they keepe their Soueraigntie in safetie for euer ? The best way is to let an other haue their Soueraigne authority and supreame Estate in his power . But I haue been euer of this mind , that when my goods are at no mans command or disposing but mine owne , then they are truely and certainly mine owne . It may be this error is growne vpon me and other Princes , for lacke of braines : whereupon it may be feared , or at least coniectured , the Pope meanes to shaue our crownes , and thrust vs into some cloister , there to hold ranke in the brotherhood of good King Childeric . For as much then as my dull capacity doth not serue me to reach or comprehend the pith of this admirable reason , I haue thought good to seeke and to vse the instruction of old and learned experience , which teacheth no such matter : by name , that ciuill warres and fearefull perturbations of State in any nation of the world , haue at any time growne from this faithfull credulity of subiects , that Popes in right haue no power , to wrest and lift Kings out of their dignities and possessions . On the other side , by establishing the contrary maximes , to yoke and hamper the people with Pontificiall tyrannie , what rebellious troubles and stirres , what extreame desolations hath England been forced to feare and feele , in the raigne of my Predecessors Henry II. Iohn , and Henry III ? These be the maximes and principles , which vnder the Emperour Henry IV. and Frederic the I. made all Europe flowe with channels and streames of blood , like a riuer with water , while the Saracens by their incursions and victories ouerflowed , and in a manner drowned the honour of the Christian name in the East . These bee the maximes and principles , which made way for the warres of the last League into France ; by which the very bowels of that most famous and flourishing Kingdome were set on such a combustion , that France herselfe was brought within two fingers breadth of bondage to an other Nation , and the death of her two last Kings most villanously and trayterously accomplished . The Lord Cardinall then giuing these diabolicall maximes for meanes to secure the life and estate of Kings , speaketh as if he would giue men counsell to dry themselues in the riuer , when they come as wet as a water spaniel out of a pond ; or to warme themselues by the light of the Moone , when they are starnaked , and well neere frozen to death . The Conclusion of the Lord of Perron examined . AFTER the L. Cardinal hath stoutly shewed the strength of his arme , and the deepe skill of his head in fortification ; at last he leaues his loftie scaffolds , and falls to work neerer the ground , with more easie tooles of humble prayers and gentle exhortations . The summe of the whole is this : He adiures his auditors neuer to forge remedies , neuer so to prouide for the temporall safetie of Kings , as thereby to worke their finall falling from eternall saluation : neuer to make any rent or rupture in the vnity of the Church , in this corrupt age infected with pestilent heresies , which alreadie hauing made so great a breach in the walls of France , will no doubt double their strength by the dissentions , diuisions , and schismes of Catholikes . If this infectious plague shall still encrease and growe to a carbuncle , it can by no meanes poyson religion ; without bringing Kings to their winding sheetes and wofull hearses . The first rowlers of that stone of offence , aymed at no other marke , then to make an ignominious and lamentable rent in the Church . He thinks the Deputies of the third Estate , had neither head nor first hand in contriuing this Article ; but holds it rather a newe deuice and subtile inuention , suggested by persons , which beeing alreadie cut off by their owne practises from the body of the Romane Church , haue likewise inueigled and insnared some that beare the name of Catholiks , with some other Ecclesiastics ; and vnder a faire pretence and goodly cloake , by name , the seruice of the King , haue surprised and played vpon their simplicitie . These men ( as the Cardinal saith ) doe imitate Julian the Apostata , who to bring the Christians to idolatrous worship of false gods , commaunded the idols of Iupiter and Venus to be intermingled with Imperiall statues , and other Images of Christian Emperours , &c. Then after certaine Rhetoricall flourishes , his Lord ship fals to prosecute his former course , and cries out of this Article ; A monster hauing the tayle of a fish , as if it came cutting the narrow Seas out of England . For in full effect it is downright the English oath ; sauing that indeede the oath of England runneth in a more mild forme , and a more moderate straine . And here he suddenly takes occasion to make some digression . For out of the way , and cleane from the matter , he entreth into some purpose of my praise and commendation . He courteously forsooth is pleased to grace me with knowledge of learning , and with ciuill vertues . Hee seemeth chiefly to reioyce in his owne behalfe , and to giue me thanks , that I haue done him the honour to enter the lists of Theologicall dispute against his Lordship . Howbeit he twitches and carpes at me withall , as at one that soweth seeds of dissention and schisme amongst Romane Catholiks . And yet he would seeme to qualifie the matter , and to make all whole againe , by saying , That in so doing I am perswaded I doe no more then my dutie requires . But now ( as his Lordship followes the point ) it standeth neither with godlinesse , nor with equity , nor with reason , that Acts made , that Statutes , Decrees , and Ordinances ratified for the State and Gouernement of England , should be thrust for binding Laws vpon the Kingdome of France : nor that Catholikes , and much lesse that Ecclesiastics , to the ende they may liue in safetie , and freely enioy their priuiledges or immunities in France , should be forced to beleeue , and by oath to seale the same points , which English Catholikes to the ende they may purchase libertie onely to breath , nay sorrowfully to sigh rather , are constrained to allow and to aduowe besides . And whereas in England there is no small number of Catholikes , that lacke not constant and resolute minds to endure all sorts of punishment , rather then to take that oath of allegiance ; will there not be found an other manner of number in France , armed with no lesse constancie and Christian resolution ? There will , most honourable Auditors , there will without all doubt : and we all that are of Episcopall dignity will sooner suffer Martyrdome in the cause . Then out of the super-abundance and ouer-weight of his Lordships goodnesse , he closely coucheth and conuayeth a certaine distastfull opposition between me and his King ; with prayses and thankes to God , that his King is not delighted , and takes no pleasure to make Martyrs . All this Artificial and swelling discourse like vnto puffe-past , if it be viewed at a neere distance , will be found like a bladder full of wind , without any soliditie of substantiall matter . For the Deputies of the third Estate were neuer so voide of vnderstanding , to beleeue that by prouiding for the life and safety of their King they should thrust him headlong into eternall damnation . Their braines were neuer so much blasted , so farre benummed , to dreame the soule of their King cannot mount vp to heauen , except he be dismounted from his Princely Throne vpon earth , whensoeuer the Pope shall hold vp his finger . And whereas he is bold to pronounce , that heretikes of France doe make their benefit and aduantage of this diuision ; that speech is grounded vpon this proposition ; That professors of the Christian Religion reformed ( which is to say , purged and cleansed of all Popish dregs ) are heretiks in fact , and ought so to be reputed in right . Which proposition his Lordship wil neuer soundly and sufficiently make good , before his Holinesse hath compiled an other Gospell , or hath forged an other Bible at his Pontificiall anvile . The L. Cardinall vndertooke to reade me a lecture vpon that argument ; but euer since hath played Mum-budget , and hath put himselfe to silence , like one at a Non-plus in his enterprise . There be three yeeres already gone and past , since his Lordship beganne to shape some answer to a certaine writing dispatched by me in few daies . With forming and reforming , with filing and polishing , with labouring and licking his answer ouer and ouer againe , with reiterated extractions and calcinations , it may be coniectured that all his Lordships labour and cost is long since evaporated and vanished in the aire . Howbeit , as well the friendly conference of a King , ( for I will not call it a contention ) as also the dignitie , excellencie , and importance of the matter , long since deserued , and as long since required the publishing of some or other answer . His Lordships long silence will neuer be imputed to lacke of capacity , wherewith who knoweth not how abundantly he is furnished ; but rather to well aduised agnition of his owne working and building vpon a weake foundation . But let vs returne vnto these heretikes , that make so great gaine by the disagreement of Catholikes . It is no part of their dutie to aime at sowing of dissentions ; but rather to intend and attend their faithfull performance of seruice to their King. If some be pleased , and others offended , when so good and loyall duties are sincerely discharged ; it is for all good subiects to grieue and to be sory , that when they speake for the safetie of their King and honour of the truth , it is their hard hap to leaue any at all vnsatisfied . But suppose the said heretikes were the Authors of this Article preferred by the third Estate . What need they to conceale their names in that regard ? What need they to disclaime the credit of such a worthy act ? Would it not redound to their perpetuall honour , to be the onely subiects that kept watch ouer the Kings life and Crowne , that stood centinell , and walked the rounds for the preseruation of his Princely diademe , when all other had no more touch , no more feeling thereof then so many stones ? And what neede the Deputies for the third Estate , to receiue instructions from forraine Kingdomes , concerning a cause of that nature ; when there was no want of domesticall examples , and the French histories were plentifull in that argument ? What need they to gape for this reformed doctrine , to come swimming with a fishes tayle out of an Island to the mayne continent , when they had before their eyes the murders of two Kings , with diuerse ciuill warres , and many Arrests of Court , all tending to insinuate and suggest the introduction of the same remedy ? Suggestions are needlesse from abroad , when the mischiefe is felt at home . It seemes to me that his Lordship in smoothing and tickling the Deputies for the third Estate , doth no lesse then wring and wrong their great sufficiencie with contumely and outragious abuse : as if they were not furnished with sufficient foresight , & with loyal affection towards their King , for the preseruation of his life and honour , if the remedie were not beaten into their heads by those of the Religion , reputed heretikes . Touching my selfe , ranged by his Lordship in the same ranke with sowers of dissention ; I take my God to witnes , and my owne conscience , that I neuer dream'd of any such vnchristian proiect . It hath been hitherto my ordinary course to follow honest counsells , and to walke in open waies . I neuer wonted my selfe to holes and corners , to crafty shifts , but euermore to plain and open designes . I need not hide mine intentions for feare of any mortall man , that puffeth breath of life out of his nostrils . Nor in any sort doe I purpose , to set Iulian the Apostata before mine eyes , as a patterne for me to follow . Iulian of a Christian became a Pagan : I professe the same faith of Christ still , which I haue euer professed : Iulian went about his designes with crafty conueiances ; I neuer with any of his captious and cunning sleights : Iulian forced his subiects to infidelitie against Iesus Christ ; I labour to induce my subiects vnto such tearmes of loyaltie towards my selfe , as Iesus Christ hath prescribed and taught in his word . But how farre I differ from Iulian , it is to bee seene more at large in my answer to Bellarmines Epistles written to Blackwell ; from whence the Lord Cardinall borrowing this example , it might well haue beseemed his Lordship to borrow likewise my answer from the same place . Now as it mooues me nothing at all , to be drawne by his Lordship into suspitions of this nature and qualitie : so by the prayses , that he rockes me withall , I will neuer be lulled asleepe . To commend a man for his knowledge , and withall to take from him the feare of God , is to admire a souldier for his goodly head of haire or his curled locks , and withall to call him base coward , faint-hearted and fresh-water souldier . Knowledge , wit , and learning in an hereticke , are of none other vse and seruice , but onely to make him the more culpable , and consequently obnoxious to the more grieuous punishments . All vertues turne to vices , when they become the seruants of impietie . The hand-maids which the Soueraigne Lady Wisdome calleth to be of her traine in the 9. Prouerb . are moral vertues , and humane sciences ; which then become pernicious , when they runne away from their Soueraigne Lady-Mistris , and put ouer themselues in seruice to the Deuill . What difference is between two men , both alike wanting the knowledge of God ; the one fnrnished with arts and ciuill vertues , the other brutishly barbarous and of a deformed life , or of prophane manners ? What is the difference between these two ? I make this the onely difference : the first goeth to hell with a better grace , and falleth into perdition with more facility , then the second . But he becommeth exceedingly wicked , euen threefold and fourefold abhominable , if he wast his treasure and stocke of ciuill vertues in persecuting the Church of Christ : and if that may be layed in his dish which was cast in Caesars teeth , that in plain sobernes and well-setled temper , he attempts the ruine of the Common-wealth , which from a drunken sot might receiue perhaps a more easie fall . In briefe , I scorn all garlands of praises , which are not euer greene ; but beeing drie and withered for want of sap and radicall moysture , doe flagge about barbarous Princes browes . I defie and renounce those prayses , which fit me no more then they fit a Mahumetane King of Marocco . I contest against all praises which grace me with pety accessories , but rob me of the principall , that one thing necessary ; namely , the feare and knowledge of my God : vnto whose Maiesty alone , I haue deuoted my scepter , my sword , my penne , my whole industry , my whole selfe , with all that is mine in whole and in part . I doe it , I doe it in all humble acknowledgement of his vnspeakable mercy and fauour , who hath vouchsafed to deliuer me from the erroneous way of this age , to deliuer my Kingdome from the Popes tyrannicall yoake , vnder which it hath lyen in times past most grieuously oppressed . My Kingdome where God is now purely serued , and called vpon in a tongue which all the vulgar vnderstand . My Kingdom , where the people may now reade the Scriptures without any speciall priuiledge from the Apostolike See , and with no lesse libertie then the people of Ephesus , of Rome , and of Corinth did reade the holy Epistles , written to their Churches by S. Paul. My Kingdome , where the people now pay no longer any tribute by the poll for Papall indulgences , as they did about an hundred yeeres past , and are no longer compelled to the mart , for pardons beyond the Seas and Mountaines , but haue them now freely offered from God , by the doctrine of the Gospel preached at home , within their owne seuerall parishes and iurisdictions . If the Churches of my Kingdome , in the L. Cardinals accompt , be miserable for these causes and the like ; let him dreame on , and talke his pleasure : for my part I will euer advowe , that more worth is our misery then all his felicity . For the rest , it shall by Gods grace be my daily endeauour and serious care , to passe my daies in shaping to my selfe such a course of life , that without shamefull calumniating of my person , it shall not rest in the tippe of any tongue , to touch my life with iust reprehension or blame . Nor am I so priuie to mine owne guiltinesse , as to thinke my state so desperate , so deplorable , as Popes haue made their owne . For some of them haue been so open-hearted and so tongue-free , to pronounce that Popes themselues , the key-bearers of Heauen and hel , cannot be saued . Two Popes , reckoned among the best of the whole bunch or pack , namely , Adrian IV. and Marcelline II. haue both sung one and the same note ; that in their vnderstanding they could not conceiue any reason why , or any meanes how those that sway the Popedome can be partakers of saluation . But for my particular , grounding my faith vpon the promises of God contained in the Gospell , I doe confidently and assuredly beleeue , that repenting mee of my sinnes , and reposing my whole trust in the merits of Iesus Christ , I shall obtaine forgiuenesse of my sinnes thorough his Name . Nor doe I feare , that I am now , or shall be hereafter cast out of the Churches lap and bosome ; that I now haue or hereafter shall haue no right to the Church as a putrified member thereof , so long as I do or shall cleaue to Christ Iesus , the Head of the Church : the appellation and name whereof , serueth in this corrupt age , as a cloake to couer a thousand newe inuentions ; and now no longer signifies the assembly of the faithfull , or such as beleeue in Iesus Christ according to his word , but a certaine glorious ostentation and Temporall Monarchy , whereof the Pope forsooth is the supreame head . But if the L. Cardinall by assured and certaine knowledge ( as perhaps he may by common fame ) did vnderstand the horrible conspiracies that haue been plotted and contriued , not against my person and life alone , but also against my whole stocke : if he rightly knew and were inly perswaded , of how many fowle periuries and wicked treasons , diuerse Ecclesiasticall persons haue been lawfully conuicted : in stead of charging me with false imputations , that I suffer not my Catholikes to fetch a sigh , or to draw their breath ; and that I thrust my Catholikes vpon the sharpe edge of punishment in euery kind ; he would , and might well , rather wonder , how I my selfe , after so many dangers run , after so many proditorious snares escaped , doe yet fetch my owne breath , and yet practise Princely clemency towards the said Catholiks , notorious transgressors of diuine and humane laws . If the French King in the heart of his Kingdome , should nourish and foster such a nest of stinging hornets and busie waspes , I meane such a pack of subiects , denying his absolute Soueraignty , as many Romane Catholikes of my Kingdome do mine : it may well bee doubted , whether the L. Cardinall would aduise his King still to feather the nest of the said Catholiks , still to keep them warm , still to beare them with an easie and a gentle hand . It may well be doubted , whether his Lordship would extoll their constancie , that would haue the courage to sheath vp their swords in his Kings bowels , or blow vp his King with gun-powder , into the neather station of the lowest region . It may well be doubted , whether hee would indure that Orator , who ( like as himselfe hath done ) should stirre vp others to suffer Martyrdome after such examples , and to imitate parricides and traitors in their constancy . The scope then of the L. Cardinal , in striking the sweet strings , and sounding the pleasant notes of prayses , which faine he would fill mine eares withall ; is onely by his excellent skil in the musicke of Oratorie , to bewitch the hearts of my subiects , to infatuate their minds , to settle them in a resolution to depriue me of my life . The reason : Because the plotters and practisers against my life , are honoured and rewarded with a glorious name of Martyrs : their constancie ( what els ? ) is admired , when they suffer death for treason . Whereas hitherto during the time of my whole raigne to this day , ( I speake it in the word of a King , and truth it selfe shal make good the Kings word ) no man hath lost his life , no man hath endured the Racke , no man hath suffered corporall punishment in other kinds , meerely or simply , or in any degree of respect , for his conscience in matter of religion ; but for wicked conspiring against my life , or Estate , or Royall dignitie ; or els for some notorious crime , or some obstinate and wilfull disobedience . Of which traiterous and viperous brood , I commanded one to be hanged by the necke of late in Scotland : a Iesuite of intolerable impudencie , who at his arraignment and publike triall , stiffely maintained , that I haue robbed the Pope of his right , and haue no manner of right in the possession of my Kingdome . His Lordship therefore in offering himselfe to Martyrdome , after the rare example of Catholiks , as he saith suffering all sort of punishment in my Kingdome , doth plainely professe himselfe a follower of traytors and parricides . These be the Worthies , these the heroicall spirits , these the honourable Captaines and Coronels , whose vertuous parts neuer sufficiently magnified and praysed , his Lordship propoundeth for imitation to the French Bishops . O the name of Martyrs , in olde times a sacred name ! how is it now derided and scoffed ? how is it in these daies filthily prophaned ? O you the whole quire and holy company of Apostles , who haue sealed the truth with your dearest blood ! how much are you disparaged ? how vnfitly are you paragoned and matched , when traytors , bloody butchers , and King-killers are made your assistants , and of the same Quorum ; or to speake in milder tearmes , when you are coupled with Martyrs that suffer for maintaining the Temporall rites of the Popes Empire ? with Bishops that offer themselues to a Problematicall Martyrdome , for a point decided neither by the authorities of your Spirit-inspired pens , nor by the auncient and venerable testimonie of the Primitiue Church ? for a point which they dare not vndertake to teach , otherwise then by a doubtfull , cold , fearefull way of discourse , and altogether without resolution . In good sooth , I take the Cardinall for a personage of a quicker spirit and clearer sight , ( let his Lordship hold me excused ) then to perswade my selfe , that in these matters his tongue and his heart , his pen and his inward iudgement , haue any concord or correspondence one with another . For beeing very much against his minde ( as he doth confesse ) thrust into the office of an Aduocate to pleade this cause ; he suffered himselfe to be carried ( after his engagement ) with some heat , to vtter some things against his conscience murmuring and grumbling the contrary within ; and to affirme some other things with confidence , whereof he had not been otherwise informed , then onely by vaine and lying report . Of which ranke is that bold assertion of his Lordship ; That many Catholiks in England , rather then they would subscribe to the oath of allegiance in the form thereof , haue vndergone all sorts of punishment . For in England ( as we haue truely giuen the whole Christian world to vnderstand in our Preface to the Apologie ) there is but one forme or kind of punishment ordained for all sorts of traytors . Hath not his Lordship now graced me with goodly testimonialls of prayse and commendation ? Am I not by his prayses proclaimed a Tyrant , as it were inebriated with blood of the Saints , and a famous Enginer of torments for my Catholikes ? To this exhortation for the suffering of Martyrdome , in imitation of my English traytors and parricides , if we shall adde ; how craftily and subtilly he makes the Kings of England to hold of the Pope by fealty , and their Kingdome in bondage to the Pope by Temporall recognizance ; it shall easily appeare , that his holy-water of prayses wherewith I am so reuerently besprinkled , is a composition extracted out of a dram of hony and a pound of gall , first steeped in a strong decoction of bitter wormewood , or of the wild gourd called Coloquintida . For after he hath in the beginning of his Oration , spoken of Kings that owe fealtie to the Pope , and are not Soueraignes in the highest degree of Temporal supremacie within their Kingdomes ; to explaine his mind and meaning the better , he marshals the Kings of England a little after in the same ranke . His words be these ; When King Iohn of England , not yet bound in any temporall recognizance to the Pope , had expelled his Bishops , &c. His Lordship means , that King Iohn became so bound to the Pope not long after . And what may this meaning be , but in plaine tearmes and broad speach , to cal me vsurper and vnlawfull King ? For the feudatarie , or he that holdeth a Mannor by fealty , when he doth not his homage , with all suit and seruice that he owes to the Lord Paramount , doth fall from the propertie of his fee. This reproach of the L. Cardinals , is seconded with an other of Bellarmines his brother Cardinall ; That Ireland was giuen to the Kings of England by the Pope . The best is that his most reuerend Lordship hath not shewed , who it was that gaue Ireland to the Pope . And touching Iohn King of England , thus in briefe stands the whole matter . Between Henry 2. and the Pope had passed sundry bickerments , about collating of Ecclesiasticall dignities . Iohn the sonne , after his fathers death , reneweth , vndertaketh , and pursueth the same quarrell . Driueth certaine English Bishops out of the Kingdome , for defending the Popes insolent vsurpation vpon his Royall prerogatiue , and Regall rights . Sheweth such Princely courage and resolution in those times , when all that stood and suffered for the Popes Temporall pretensions against Kings , were enrowled Martyrs or Confessors . The Pope takes the matter in fowle scorne , and great indignation ; shuts the King by his excommunicatory Bulls out of the Church ; stirres vp his Barons , for other causes the Kings heauy friends , to rise in armes ; giues the Kingdome of England ( like a masterlesse man turned ouer to a new master ) to Philippus Augustus King of France ; binds Philip to make a conquest of England by the sword , or else no bargaine , or else no gift ; promises Philip , in recompence of his trauell and Royall expences in that conquest , full absolution and a general pardon at large for all his sinnes : to be short , cuts King Iohn out so much worke and makes him keep so many yrons in the fire for his worke , that he had none other way , none other meanes to pacifie the Popes high displeasure , to correct or qualifie the malignitie of the Popes cholericke humour , by whom he was then so intangled in the Popes toyles , but by yeelding himselfe to become the Popes vassall , and his Kingdome feudatary or to hold by fealty of the Papall See. By this meanes his Crowne is made tributarie , all his people liable to payment of taxes by the poll for a certaine yearly tribute , and he is blessed with a pardon for all his sinnes . Whether King Iohn was mooued to doe this dishonourable act vpon any deuotion , or inflamed with any zeale of Religion ; or inforced by the vnresistable weapons of necessitie , who can be so blind , that he doth not well see and clearely perceiue ? For to purchase his owne freedom from this bondage to the Pope ; what could he be vnwilling to doe , that was willing to bring his Kingdome vnder the yoke of Amirales Murmelinus a Mahumetan Prince , then King of Granado and Barbaria ? The Pope after that , sent a Legat into England . The King now the Popes vassall , and holding his Crowne of the Pope , like a man that holds his land of an other by Knights seruice , or by homage and fealty , doth faire homage for his Crowne to the Popes Legat , and layeth downe at his feete a great masle of the purest gold in coyne . The reuerend Legat , in token of his Masters Soueraigntie , with more then vsuall pride fals to kicking and spurning the treasure , no doubt with a paire of most holy feete . Not onely so ; but likewise at solemne feasts is easily entreated to take the Kings chaire of Estate . Here I would faine know the Lord Cardinals opinion ; whether these actions of the Pope were iust or vniust , lawfull or vnlawfull , according to right or against all right and reason . If he will say against right ; it is then cleare , that against right his Lordship hath made way to this example : if according to right ; let him then make it knowne , from whence or from whom this power was deriued and conuaied to the Pope , whereby he makes himselfe Soueraigne Lord of Temporalties in that Kingdome , where neither he nor any of his predecessors euer pretended any right , or laid any claime to Temporall matters before . Are such prankes to be played by the Pontificiall Bishop ? Is this an act of Holinesse , to set a Kingdome on fire by the flaming brands of sedition ? to dismember and quarter a Kingdome with intestine warres ; onely to this end , that a King once reduced to the lowest degree of miserie , might be lifted by his Holinesse out of his Royall prerogatiue , the very soule and life of his Royall Estate ? When beganne this Papall power ? In what age beganne the Pope to practise this power ? What! haue the auncient Canons , ( for the Scripture in this question beareth no pawme ) haue the Canons of the auncient Church , imposed any such satisfaction vpon a sinner , that of ueraigne and free King , he should become vassal to his ghostly Father ; that he should make himselfe together with all his people and subiects tributaries to a Bishop , that shall rifle a whole Nation of their coyne , that shall receiue homage of a King , and make a King his vassall ? What! Shall not a sinner be quitted of his faults , except his Pastor turne robber , and one that goeth about to get a booty ? except he make his Pastor a feoffee in his whole Estate , and suffer himselfe vnder a shadow of penance to freeze naked , to be turned out of all his goods and possessions of inheritance ? But be it graunted , admit his Holinesse robs one Prince of his rights and reuenewes , to conferre the same vpon an other : were it not an high degree of Tyrannie to finger an other mans estate , and to giue that away to a third , which the second hath no right , no lawfull authoritie to giue ? Well , if the Pope then shall become his own caruer in the rights of an other ; if he shal make his owne coffers to swell with an others reuenewes , if he shall decke and array his owne backe in the spoyles of a sinner , with whom in absolution he maketh peace , and taketh truce ; what can this be else , but running into further degrees of wickednesse and mischiefe ? what can this be else , but heaping of robbery vpon fraud , and impiety vpon robbery ? For by such deceitfull , crafty , and cunning practises , the nature of the Pontificiall Sea , meerely spirituall , is changed into the Kings-bench-Court , meerely temporall : the Bishops chaire is changed into a Monarchs Throne . And not onely so ; but besides , the sinners repentance is changed into a snare or pit-fall of cousening deceit ; and Saint Peters net is changed into a casting-net or a flew , to fish for all the wealth of most flourishing Kingdomes . Moreouer , the King ( a hard case ) is driuen by such wyles and subtilties , to worke impossibilities , to act more then is lawfull or within the compasse of his power to practise . For the King neither may in right , nor can by power trans-nature his Crowne , impaire the Maiestie of his Kingdome , or leaue his Royall dignitie lesse free to his heire apparant , or next successor , then he receiued the same of his predecessor . Much lesse , by any dishonourable capitulations , by any vnworthy contracts , degrade his posteritie , bring his people vnder the grieuous burden of tributes and taxes to a forraine Prince . Least of all , make them tributary to a Priest : vnto whom it no way appertaineth to haue any hand in the ciuill affaires of Kings , or to distaine & vnhallow their Crownes . And therefore when the Pope dispatched his Nuntio to Philippus Augustus , requesting the King to avert Lewis his sonne from laying any claime to the Kingdom of England ; Philip answered the Legat ( as we haue it in Math. Paris ; ) No King , no Prince can abienate or giue away his Kingdome , but by consent of his Barons , bound by Knights seruice to defend the said Kingdom : and in case the Pope shall stand for the contrary error , his Holinesse shall giue to Kingdomes a most pernicious example . By the same Authorit is testified , that King Iohn became odious to his subiects , for such dishonorable and vnworthie inthralling of his Crowne and Kingdome . Therefore the Popes right pretended to the Crowne of England , which is nothing else but a ridiculous vsurpation , hath long agoe vanished into smoake , and required not so much as the drawing of one sword to snatch and pull it by violence out of his hands . For the Popes power lying altogether in a certaine wild and wandring conceit or opinion of men , and beeing onely an imaginary castle in the ayre , built by pride , and vnderpropped by superstition , is very speedily dispersed vpon the first rising and appearing of the truth in her glorious brightnesse . There is none so very a dolt or block-head to deny , that in case this right of the Pope ouer England , is grounded vpon Gods word , then his Holinesse may challenge the like right ouer all other Kingdomes : because all other Kingdomes , Crownes , and Scepters are subiect alike to Gods word . For what priuiledge , what charter , what euidence can France fetch out of the Rolles , or any other treasurie of her monuments or records , to shew that she oweth lesse subiection to God then England ? Or was this yoke of bondage then brought vpon the English Nation ; was it a prerogatiue , whereby they might more easily come to the libertie of the sonnes of God ? Or were the people of England perswaded , that for all their substance , wealth , and life bestowed on the Pope , his Holinesse by way of exchange returned them better weight and measure of spirituall graces ? It is ridiculous , onely to conceiue these to yes in thought ; and yet with such ridiculous , with such toyes in conceit , his Lordship feedes and entertains his auditors . From this point he falleth to an other bowt and fling at his heretikes , with whom he played no faire play before : There is not one Synode of ministers ( as he saith ) which would willingly subscribe to this Article , whereunto we should be bound to sweare . But herein his Lordship shooteth farre from the mark . This Article is approued and preached by the Ministers of my Kingdome . It is likewise preached by those of France , and if neede be ( I assure my selfe ) will be signed by all the Ministers of the French Church . The L. Cardinall proceedeth , ( for hee meaneth not so soone to giue ouer these heretikes : All their Consistories beleeue it as their Creede ; that if Catholike Princes at any time shall offer force vnto their conscience , then they are dispensed withall for their oath of allegiance . Hence are these modifications and restrictions , tossed so much in their mouthes ; Prouided the King force vs not in our conscience . Hence are these exceptions in the profession of their faith ; Prouided the Soueraigne power and authoritie of God , be not in any sort violated or infringed . I am not able to conceiue what engine can be framed of these materialls , for the bearing of Kings out of their eminent seats , by any lawfull authority or power in the Pope . For say , those of the Religion should be tainted with some like errour ; how can that be any shelter of excuse for those of the Romish Church , to vndermine or to digge vp the Thrones of their Kings ? But in this allegation of the Lord Cardinal , there is nothing at all , which doth not iumpe iust and accord to a haire with the Article of the third Estate , and with obedience due to the King. For they doe not professe , that in case the King shall commaund them to doe any act contrarie to their conscience , they would flie at his throat , would make any attempt against his life , would refuse to pay their taxations , or to defend him in the warres . They make no profession of deposing the King , or discharging the people from the oath of allegiance tendred to the King : which is the very point or issue of the matter in controuersie , and the maine mischeife , against which the third Estate hath bin most worthily carefull to prouide a wholesome remedie by this Article . There is a world of difference betweene the termes of disobedience , and of deposition . It is one thing to disobey the Kings commaund in matters prohibited by diuine lawes , and yet in all other matters to performe full subiection vnto the King. It is another thing of a farre higher degree or straine of disloyaltie , to bare the King of his Royall robes , throne , and scepter , and when he is thus farre disgraced , to degrade him and to put him from his degree and place of a King. If the holy Father should charge the L. Cardinal to doe some act repugnant in his owne knowledge to the Law of God , I will religiously , and according to the rule of charity presume , that his Lordship in this case would stand out against his Holinesse , and notwithstanding would still acknowledge him to be Pope . His Lordship yet prosecutes and followes his former purpose : Hence are those armes which they haue oftentimes borne against Kings , when Kings practised to take away the libertie of their conscience and Religion . Hence are those turbulent Commotions and seditions by them raised , as well in the Law-countryes against the King of Spaine , as in Swethland against the Catholike King of Polonia . Besides , he casteth Iunius Brutus , Buchananus , Barclaius , and Gerson in our teeth . To what end all this ? I see not how it can be auaileable to authorize the deposing of Kings , especially the Popes power to depose . And yet his Lordship here doth outface ( by his leaue ) and beare downe the truth . For I could neuer yet learne by any good and true intelligence , that in France those of the Religion took armes at any time against their King. In the first ciuill warres they stood onely vpon their guard : they stood only to their lawfull wards and locks of defence : they armed not , nor tooke the field before they were pursued with fire and sword , burnt vp and slaughtred . Besides , Religion was neither the root nor the rynde of those intestine troubles . The true ground of the quarrell was this : During the minority of King Francis 2. the Protestants of France were a refuge and succour to the Princes of the blood , when they were kept from the Kings presence , and by the ouer powring power of their enemies , were no better then plaine driuen and chased from the Court. I meane , the Grand-father of the King now raigning , and the Grand-father of the Prince of Condé , when they had no place of safe retreate . In regard of which worthy and honourable seruice , it may seem the French King hath reason to haue the Protestants in his gracious remembrance . With other commotion or insurrection , the Protestants are not iustly to be charged . But on the contrary , certaine it is that King Henry III. raysed and sent forth seuerall armies against the Protestants , to ruine and roote them out of the Kingdom : howbeit , so soon as they perceiued the said King was brought into dangerous tearms , they ranne with great speed and speciall fidelitie to the Kings rescue and succour , in the present danger . Certaine it is , that by their good seruice the said King was deliuered , from a most extreame and imminent perill of his life in the city of Tours . Certaine it is , they neuer abandoned that Henry 3. nor his next successor Henry 4. in all the heat of reuolts and rebellions , raised in the greatest part of the Kingdome by the Pope , and the more part of the Clergie : but stood to the said Kings in all their battels , to beare vp the Crowne then tottering and ready to fall . Certaine it is , that euen the heads and principalls of those by whome the late King deceased was pursued with all extremities , at this day doe enioy the fruit of all the good seruices done to the King by the said Protestants . And they are now disgraced , kept vnder , exposed to publike hatred . What , for kindling coales of questions and controuersies about Religion ? Forsooth , not so : but because if they might haue equall and indifferent dealing , if credit might be giuen to their faithfull aduertisements , the Crowne of their Kings should be no longer pinned to the Popes flie-flap ; in France there should be no French exempted from subiection to the French King ; causes of benefices or of matrimonie , should be no longer citable and summonable to the Romish Court ; and the Kingdome should be no longer tributarie vnder the colour of annats , the first fruits of Benefices after the remooue or death of the Incumbent , and other like impositions . But why do I speake so much in the behalfe of the French Protestants ? The Lord Cardinall himselfe quittes them of this blame , when he telleth vs this doctrine for the deposing of Kings by the Popes mace or verge , had credit and authoritie through all France , vntill Caluins time . Doth not his Lordship vnder-hand confesse by these words , that Kings had been alwaies before Caluins time , the more dishonoured , and the worse serued ? Item , that Protestants , whome his Lordship calls heretikes , by the light of holy Scripture made the world then and euer since to see the right of Kings , oppressed so long before ? As for those of the Low Countries , and the subiects of Swethland , I haue little to say of their case , because it is not within ordinary compasse , and indeed serueth nothing to the purpose . These Nations , besides the cause of Religion , doe stand vpon certaine reasons of State , which I will not here take vpon me like a Iudge to determine or to sift . Iunius Brutus , whom the L. Cardinall obiecteth , is an author vnknowne ; and perhaps of purpose patcht vp by some Romanist , with a wyly deceit to draw the reformed Religion into hatred with Christian Princes . Buchanan I reckon and ranke among Poets , not among Diuines , classicall or common . If the man hath burst out here and there into some tearmes of excesse , or speach of bad temper ; that must be imputed to the violence of his humour , and heate of his spirit , not in any wise to the rules and conclusions of true Religion , rightly by him conceiued before . Barclaius alledged by the Cardinal , meddles not with deposing of Kings ; but deals with disavowing them for Kings , when they shall renounce the right of Royaltie , and of their owne accord giue ouer the Kingdome . Now he that leaues it in the Kings choice , either to hold or to giue ouer his Crowne , leaues it not in the Popes power to take away the Kingdome . Of Gerson obtruded by the Cardinall , we haue spoken sufficiently before . Where it hath been shewed how Gerson is disguised , masked , and peruerted by his Lordsh . In briefe , I take not vpon me to iustifie and make good all the sayings of particular authors . We glory ( and well we may ) that our religion affordeth no rules of rebellion : nor any dispensation to subiects for the oath of their allegiance : and that none of our Churches giue entertainement vnto such monstrous and abhominable principles of disloyaltie . If any of the French , otherwise perswaded in former times , now hauing altered and changed his iudgement , doth contend for the Soueraignty of Kings against Papal vsurpation ; he doubtles , for winding himselfe out of the Laborinth of an error so intricate and pernicious , deserueth great honour and speciall prayse . He is worthy to hold a place of dignity aboue the L. Cardinall : who hath quitted and betrayed his former iudgement , which was holy and iust . Their motions are contrary , their markes are opposite . The one reclineth from euil to good , the other declineth from good to euill . At last his Lordship commeth to the close of his Oration , and bindes vp his whole harangue with a feate wreath of praises , proper to his King. He styles the King the eldest Sonne of the Church , a young shoot of the lilly , which King Salomon in all his Royaltie was not able to match . He leades vs by the hand into the pleasant meadowes of Histories , there to learne vpon the very first sight and viewe , That so long , so oft as the Kings of France embraced vnion , and kept good tearmes of concord with Popes and the Apostolike See ; so long as the spouse of the Church was pastured and fed among the lillies , all sorts of spirituall & temporall graces abundantly showred vpon their Crownes , and vpon their people : On the contrary , when they made any rent or separation from the most holy See ; then the lillies were pricked and almost choaked with sharpe thornes ; they beganne to droope , to stoope , and to beare their beautifull heads downe to the very ground , vnder the strong flawes and gusts of boysterous winds and tempests . My answer to this flourishing close and vpshot , shall beno lesse apert then apt . It sauours not of good and faithfull seruice , to smooth and stroake the Kings head with a soft hand of oyled speech , and in the meane time to take away the Crowne from his head , and to defile it with dirt . But let vs try the cause by euidence of Historie , yea by the voice and verdict of experience ; to see whether the glorious beauty of the French lillies , hath been at any time blasted , and thereupon hath faded , by starting aside , and making separation from the holy See. Vnder the raigne of King Philip the Faire , France was blessed with peace and prosperity , notwithstanding some outragious acts done against the Papall See , and contumelious crying quittance by King Philip with the Pope . Lewis 12. in ranged battell defeated the armies of Pope Iulius 2. and his Confederates : proclaimed the said Pope to be fallen from the Popedome : stamped certaine coynes and peices of gold with a dishonourable mot , euen to Rome it selfe , Rome is Babylon : yet so much was Lewis loued and honoured of his people , that by a peculiar title he was called , the Father of the Country . Greater blessings of God , greater outward peace and plenty , greater inward peace with spirituall and celestial treasures , were neuer heaped vpon my Great Brittaine , then haue been since my Great Brittaine became Great in the greatest and chiefest respect of all ; to wit , since my Great Brittaine hath shaken off the Popes yoke ; since shee hath refused to receiue and to entertain the Popes Legats , employed to collect S. Peters tribute or Peter-pence ; since the Kings of England , my Great Brittaine , haue not beene the Popes vassals to doe him homage for their Crowne , and haue no more felt the lashings , the scourgings of base and beggarly Monkes . Of Holland , Zeland , and Friseland , what need I speake ? yet a word and no more . Were they not a kind of naked and bare people , of small value , before God lighted the torch of the Gospel , and aduanced it in those Nations ? were they not an ill fedde and scragged people , in comparison of the inestimable wealth and prosperity ( both in all military actions and mechanicall trades , in trafficke as merchants , in marting as men of warre , in long nauigation for discouerie ) to which they are now raysed and mounted by the mercifull blessing of God , since the darknes of Poperie hath been scattered , and the bright Sunne of the Gospel hath shined in those Countryes ? Behold the Venetian Republique . Hath shee now lesse beautie , lesse glory , lesse peace and prosperitie , since she lately fell to bicker and contend with the Pope ? since shee hath wrung out of the Popes hand , the one of his two swords ? since she hath plumed and shaked his Temporall dominion ? On the contrarie ; after the French Kings had honoured the Popes , with munificent graunts and gifts of all the cities and territories , lands and possessions , which they now hold in Italy , and the auncient Earledome of Avignon in France for an ouer-plus ; were they not rudely recompenced , and homely handled by their most ingratefull fee-farmers and copy-holders ? Haue not Popes forged a donation of Constantine , of purpose to blot out all memory of Pepins and Charlemaignes donation ? Haue they not vexed and troubled the State ? haue they not whetted the sonnes of Lewis the Courteous against their owne Father , whose life was a pattern and example of innocencie ? Haue they not by their infinite exactions , robbed and scoured the Kingdome of all their treasure ? Were not the Kings of France , driuen to stoppe their violent courses by the pragmaticall sanction ? Did they not sundrie times interdict the Kingdome , degrade the Kings , solicite the neighbour-Princes to inuade and lay hold on the Kingdome , and stirre vp the people against the King , whereby a gate was opened to a world of troubles and parricides ? Did not Rauaillac render this reason for his monstrous & horrible attempt , That King Henry had a designe to warre with God , because he had a designe to take armes against his Holinesse , who is God ? This makes me to wonder , what mooued the L. Cardinall to marshall the last ciuill warres and motions in France , in the ranke of examples of vnhappie separation from the Pope ; when the Pope himselfe was the trumpetor of the same troublesome motions . If the Pope had beene wronged and offended by the French King , or his people , and the Kingdome of France had been scourged with pestilence , or famine , or some other calamitie by forraine enemies ; it might haue been taken in probabilitie , as a vengeance of God for some iniurie done vnto his Vicar . But his Holinesse beeing the root , the ground , the master-workman and artificer of all these mischiefes ; how can it be said , that God punisheth any iniury done to the Pope ? but rather that his Holinesse doth reuenge his owne quarrell ; and which is worst of all , when his Holinesse hath no iust cause of quarrell or offence . Now then ; to exhort a Nation ( as the L. Cardinall hath done ) by the remembrance of former calamities , to currie fauour with the Pope , and to hold a strict vnion with his Holinesse , is no exhortation to beare the Pope any respect of loue , or of reuerence , but rather a rubbing of memorie , and a calling to mind of those grieuous calamities , whereof the Pope hath been the onely occasion . It is also a threatning and obtruding of the Popes terrible thunderbolts , which neuer scorched nor parched any skinne , ( except crauens and meticulous bodies ) and haue brought many great showres of blessings vpon my Kingdome . As for France , if she hath enioyed prosperitie in the times of her good agreement with Popes , it is because the Pope seeks the amitie of Princes that are in prosperitie , haue the meanes to curbe his pretensions , and to put him to some plunge . Kings are not in prosperitie , because the Pope holds amity with Kings ; but his Holinesse vseth all deuises , and seeketh all meanes to haue amitie with Kings , because hee sees them flourish and sayle with prosperous winds . The swallow is no cause , but a companion of the spring : the Pope is no worker of a Kingdoms felicitie , but a wooer of Kings when they sit in felicities lap : he is no founder , but a follower of their good fortunes . On the other side : let a Kingdome fall into some grieuous disaster or calamitie , let ciuill wars boyle in the bowels of the Kingdome ; ciuill warres no lesse dangerous to the State , then fearefull and grieuous to the people ; who riseth sooner then the Pope , who rusheth sooner into the troubled streames then the Pope , who thrusteth himselfe sooner into the heate of the quarrell then the Pope , who runneth sooner to raise his gaine by the publike wrack then the Pope , and all vnder colour of a heart wounded and bleeding for the saluation of soules ? If the lawfull King happen to be foyled , to be oppressed , and thereupon the State by his fall to get a new master by the Popes practise ; then the said new-master must hold the Kingdome as of the Popes free gift , and rule or guide the sterne of the State at his becke , and by his instruction . If the first and right Lord , in despite of all the Popes fulminations and fire-workes , shall get the honourable day , and vpper hand of his enemies ; then the holy Father with a cheerfull and pleasant grace , yea with fatherly gratulation , opens the rich cabinet of his iewells , I meane the treasurie of his indulgences , and falls now to dandle and cocker the King in his fatherly lap , whose throat if he could , he would haue cut not long before . This pestilent mischiefe hath now a long time taken roote , and is growne to a great head in the Christian world , through the secret but iust iudgement of God ; by whom Christian Kings haue beene smitten with a spirit of dizzinesse . Christian Kings , who for many ages past haue liued in ignorance , without any sound instruction , without any true sense and right feeling of their owne right and power : whilest vnder a shadow of Religion and false cloake of pietie , their Kingdomes haue beene ouer-burdened , yea ouer-born with tributes , and their Crownes made to stoope euen to miserable bondage . That God in whose hand the hearts of Kings are poised , and at his pleasure turned as the water-courses ; that mighty God alone , in his good time , is able to rouze them out of so deepe a slumber , and to take order ( their drowzy fits once ouer and shaken off with heroicall spirits ) that Popes hereafter shall play no more vpon their patience , nor presume to put bits and snaffles in their noble mouthes , to the binding vp of their power with weake scruples , like mighty buls lead about by litle children with a small twisted thred . To that God , that King of Kings I deuote my scepter ; at his feet in all humblenes I lay downe my Crowne ; to his holy decrees and commaunds I will euer be a faithfull seruant , and in his battels a faithfull champion . To conclude ; in this iust cause and quarrell , I dare send the challenge , and will require no second , to maintain as a defendant of honour , that my brother-Princes and my selfe , whom God hath aduanced vpon the Throne of Soueraigne Maiesty and supreame dignity , doe hold the Royall dignity of his Maiesty alone ; to whose seruice , as a most humble homager and vassall , I consecrate all the glory , honour , splendor , and lustre of my earthly Kingdomes . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A04250-e110 I haue receiued aduertisement frō diuers parts , that in the Popes letters to the Nobilitie these words were extant , howsoeuer they haue beene left out in the impression , & rased out of the copies of the said letters . In 12. seuerall passages the L. Card. seemeth to speake against his owne conscience . Pag. 85. Pag. 99. Pag. 95. 97. In the Preface to my Apologie . Pag. 4. Pag. 7. & 8 Pag. 13. Arist . 1. top . cap 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sound both one thing . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , prouided the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or vtrùm , do stand before , as , Vtrùm homo sit animal . Notes for div A04250-e730 Pag. 7. Pag. 9. Conc. Constan . Sess . 15. Caus . 15. Can. Alius . Qu. 6. Paul. Aemil . in Phil. 3. Annal. Boio . Lib. 3. Iuuanen . Episcop . Optima poenitentia nova vita . Conc. Constan . Sess . 2. Exampl . 1. pag. 18. Evag . hist . Eccles . lib. 3. cap. 32. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * Nomocan . Affric . Can. 77. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * Can. 81. eiusd . Nomo . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Anathema tibi à me Liberi . Faber . in frag . Hilarij . Exampl . 2. Exam. 3. pag. 22. * Epist . 6. l. 3 Ego autem indignus pietatis ●uae seruus . Ego verò haec Dominis meis loquens , quid sum nisi pul vis & vermis ? Ibid. Ego quidem ●●ssioni subiectus , &c. Ep. 61. l. 2. Examp. 4. Examp. 5. Examp. 6. Data 10. Cal. Decem Imperante Dom. pijssimo Augusto Leone , à Deo coronato , magno Imp. anno decimo Imperij eius . Examp. 7. Pag. 25. Perfectis laudibus , à pontific● more Principum antiquorum adoratus est . Auentinus Annalium Boiorum lib. 4. post haec ab eodem Pontifice vt caeteri veterum Principum , more maiorum adoratus est Magnus . Sigeb . ad an . 801. Maria. Scotus lib. 3. Annalium . Plat. in vita Leon. 3. Auent . Annal . Boio . lib. 4. Imperium transferre iure suo in Germanos , Carolumque tacito Senatus consulto plebiscitoque d●cernunt . Examp. 9. pag. 27. Examp. 10. pag. 28. Exam. 11. An. 1076. Sigeb . ad an . 1085. Otho Frisingens . in vita Hen. 4. lib. 4. cap. 31. Theo. lib. 2. Hist . cap. 16 ▪ Ammia . lib. 27. Decret . dist . 79. Platina . Sigebertus . Anastatius . Platina . Lib. Pontisi . Diaconus . 〈…〉 Sigeberius . Iustin . Authent . 123. cap. 3. * Note that in the same Dist . the Cā . of Greg. 4. beginning with Cum Hadrianus secundus , is false and supposititious because Greg. 4. wa● Pope long before Hadri . 2. Tria tcterrima monstra . Bo●he● . Decret . Eccles . Gallican . lib. 2. tit . 16. Annal. Boio . lib. 4. Examp. 12. Bochei . pag. 320. Extrauag . Meruit . See the treatise of Charles du Moulin cōtrà paruas Datas , wherein he reporteth a notable Decree of the Court vnder Charles 6. Theodoric . N●emens . in nemore vnion . Tract . 6. & somnium viridarij . Pag. 5● . Pag. 26. Nisi de consensu Regis Christianissimi . Bochellus . Indiscretè ac inconsideratè . Doctrinaliter tantùm & non iuridicè . Pag. 47. Bibliotheca Patrum . Tom. 3. D● co●sid●r ib. 1. cap. 6. Lib. 2. cap. 6. Dist . 24. quaest . 3. Comment . in l. 4. Sent. Dist . 24. fol. 214. De potest . Regia & Papali . cap. 10. Almain . de potest . Eccl. & Laica . Quest . 2. cap. 8. De dominio naturali ciuili & Eccl. 5. vlt. pars . Quaest . 1. de potest . Eccles . & laic . c. 12. & 14. Quaest . 2. c. 8. & sic non deposuit autoritatiue . Quae. 3. c. 2. Quaest . 1 1. c●● . Sacerd Quaest . 2. de potest . Eccl. & Laic . cap. 12. In cap. 9. 10 & 11. Quest ▪ ● . cap. 14. Pag. 40. Pag. 44. Pag. 108. 109. 119. where the Card. takes Char. 7. for Charl. 6. Pag. 52. & sequentib . Aduer . Barclaium . Can. Si Papa , Dist . 40. Nisi sit à fide deuius . Omnia iura in scrinio pectoris . Pag. 86. Pag. 61. Pag. 62. Orat. ad ciues timore perculsos . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Vide Canones Graecos à Tilio editos . Pag. 66. 1. Sam. 23. 20. & 24. 15. & 2. Sam. 2. 5. 1. Sam. 26. 11. 1. Sam. 16. 13. 2. Sam. 2. 4 ▪ 1. K●● . 12. 1. Kin. 19. Pag. 68. 2. Chro. 26. Antiq. l. 9. cap. 11. Pag. 69. Pag. 67. Pag. 66. Pag. 69. Pag. 71. Tert. Apol. cap. 37. Hesterni sumus , & omnia vestra impleuimus . Cypr. cont . Demetr . Socr. lib. 3. cap. 19. Theod. lib. 4 ▪ cap. 1. Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 1. August●n Psal . 124. Pag. 81. Pag. 82. Epist . lib. 5. Epist . 33. Epist . lib. 5. In Apol. pro iuram . fidel . His owne words . lib. 7. Epist . 1. Apud A. than . in Epist . ad solitar . vitam agentes . The 2. reas . Pag. 77. Psal . 2. Pag. 77. Pag. 76. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . See the Bull of Innoc. 3. at the end of the Later . Conc. Ier. 1. 1. Cor. 2. Extauag . Vnam Sanctam . Psal . 45. Ioh. 12. Pag. 85. Pag. 84. Note by the way that here the Church of Rome is called a sect . Contr. Barclaium . cap. 27. Sess . 9. Sess . 25 cap. 19. Pag. 87. Pag. 89. Gerson . In Phaedone . In reos Maiestatis , & publicos hostes omnis homo miles est . Ter. apol . cap. 2. Pag. 95. Can. excom . Caus . 23. Quaest . 6. Pag. 97. Pag. 95. Lib. 6. cap. 4. Si papa Regem deponat , ab illis tantum p●terit , expelli vel interfici , quibus ipse id commiserit . Aliquot annis post , Apostolicae sedis nuncius in Angliam ad colligendum S. Petri vectigal missus . Onu●phri in vit Paul. 4. Vide & Math. Paris . Onup . de vitis Pontif. in vit . Mar. 2. doth testifie , that Marcel also after Adrian 4. vsed these words : Non video quo modo qui locum hunc altiss . tenent , saluari possint . Pag. 10. Pag. 105. Richerius .