The confutation of Tortura Torti: or, Against the King of Englands chaplaine: for that he hath negligently defended his Kinges cause. By the R.F. Martinus Becanus, of the Society of Iesus: and professour in deuinity. Translated out of Latin into English by W.I. P. Refutatio Torturae Torti. English Becanus, Martinus, 1563-1624. 1610 Approx. 113 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 38 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A06517 STC 1699 ESTC S122416 99857565 99857565 23323 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A06517) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 23323) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1194:16) The confutation of Tortura Torti: or, Against the King of Englands chaplaine: for that he hath negligently defended his Kinges cause. By the R.F. Martinus Becanus, of the Society of Iesus: and professour in deuinity. Translated out of Latin into English by W.I. P. Refutatio Torturae Torti. English Becanus, Martinus, 1563-1624. Wilson, John, ca. 1575-ca. 1645? [6], 65, [3] p. Printed at the English College Press] Permissu superiorum, [Saint-Omer : M.DC.X. [1610] W.I. P. = John Wilson, priest. A translation of: Refutatio Torturae Torti. A reply to: Andrewes, Lancelot. Tortura Torti. Identification of printer from STC. With a final errata leaf. Reproduction of the original in Durham University Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. 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Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Andrewes, Lancelot, 1555-1626. -- Tortura Torti -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Church and state -- England -- Early works to 1800. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-01 Andrew Kuster Sampled and proofread 2005-01 Andrew Kuster Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE CONFVTATION OF TORTVRA TORTI : OR , AGAINST ●he King of Englands Chaplaine : for that he hath negligently defended his Kinges Cause . By the R. F. MARTINVS BECANVS , of the Society of IESVS : AND Professour in Deuinity . Translated out of Latin into English by W. I. ● . ¶ Permissu Superiorum . M.DC.X. TO THE RIGHT REVEREND AND RIGHT HONORABLE PRINCE , AND LORD , LORD IOHN SVICARD , Arch-bishop of the holy Sea of Mentz , Arch-chancellour of the Sacred Roman Empire through Germany , and Prince Electour : His most Clement Prince , and Lord , Martinus Becanus &c. THere came of late ( right Reuerend and right Honorable Prince ) two bookes out of England ; one whereof bare title of the Renowned King Iames ; the other of his Chaplain : both which , as manifestly oppugning the Roman Church , I haue , for the loue of truth , refuted as modestly as I could . As for the former I haue dedicated the Confutation therof to the Inuincible Emperour Rodulph , and the other renowned Kinges , & Illustrious Princes of the Christian world ( among whome you are one : ) But the later I haue thought it not amisse to dedicate specially vnto your magnificēt Name ; and that for two reasons . The one , that for so much as I haue taken this paines for defence of the Catholicke faith and Religion ; it seemes vnfit that the same should be published vnder the Patronage of any other , then your selfe who are so great a professor and protector of the said faith in Germany . The other reason is , for that your meritts and benefitts towards our Archiepiscopall Colledge of Mentz , do by a certaine right challenge , and exact the same at my hands . You will , I trust , take i● in good part , and fauourably accept this my sincere token of Duty and Reuerence . THE TRANSLATOVR to the Reader . WHERAS ( gentle Reader ) in the yeare of our Lord God 1607. there being published , both in English & Latin , a Booke , intituled Triplici nodo triplex cuneus , or , An Apology for the Oath of Allegiance , and this without Name of Authour : the same was answered very briefely & modestly in both languages by the Catholicke party the next yeare following . And first in English , by an English-man , who also concealed his Name : and then in latin by Card. Bellarmine , vnder the Name of Matthaeus Tortus ; Who not suspecting the said Booke to be his Maiesties of Great Britany , ( as indeed it was ) but rather of some of his Ministers about him , thought it not fit to publish this his answere in his owne , but in the name of the foresaid Matthaeus Tortus . But when in the yeare 1609. his Maiesty ( hauing now seene these answers to his booke come forth ) resolued to publish anew his said Apology , with a large Preface or Premonition To all Christian Princes &c. he therwithall forthwith gaue commandement to two of the best learned ( as is thought ) in his Realme , that they should separately make Answer to both the fornamed Books , written against his foresaid Apology , which presently they did . And that in English he committed to M. Doctor Barlow , who made Answere therto , and published it the same yeare 1609. but how substantially he hath performed the same , may perhaps be shortly examined . The other in latin of the forsaid Matthaeus Tortus , he recommended to M. Doctor Andrewes , a man of great esteeme and litterature in our Countrey , who the same yeare in like manner , set forth an Answere therto , intituling it Tortura Torti : which Answere of his comming forth in latin , F. Martinus Becanus , of the Society of Iesus , and Professour in Deuinity , hath , though briefely , yet substantially , confuted , this present yeare 1610. And for that the said Fathers Booke is very short , & written in latin , I haue bestowed a few houres to translate the same into our English tongue , for such , as eyther vnderstand not the latin , or els haue not had the commodity to come by any of the said Copyes of the former edition , published in that language . W. I. THE CONFVTATION OF TORTVRA TORTI : OR , AGAINST the King of England his Chaplaine . YOV haue written a booke of late in defence of your King , against Matthaeus Tortus , intituled Tortura Torti , ( or the Torture of Tortus . ) You discouer not your Name , but insinuate your self to be a Chaplaine , Alm-nour , or Tormentor . I ( because it is more honorable ) wil cal you Chaplaine . In the said Book you dispute principally of three heads . FIRST , of the Oath of Allegiance , which your King● exacteth of his subiects . SECONDLY , of the King● Supremacy in Ecclesiasticall ( or Spirituall ) matters ▪ THIRDLY , of the Popes power . If we consider your words , yow are neat and elegant inough : if you● labour and diligence , I accuse you not of idlenes . But many other things there are , which I do not so wel● approue ; especially these . First , that you are exceedingly giuen to reproaching and taunting . Secondly , that you do euery where insert many falsities and absurdities . Thirdly , that you rather ouerthrow , then establish your Kings Supremacy , which you would fortify : which is as foule a fault as may be . Of these three heades then , will I treat in order . 1. Of the Chaplaines Reproaches . 2. Of his Paradoxes . 3. Of the Kinges Supremacy ouerthrowne by him . I trust you will pardon me , Syr , if I modestly set before your eyes these three thinges ; as well for your owne benefit as others . For your owne , that hereby you may know your selfe , and , if it be possible , become hereafter more wise . For others , that they may learne not so lightly to trust you , who haue so often , and so fouly faultred in things of so great moment . Heare me then patiently . THE FIRST CHAPTER : Of the Chaplaines Reproaches . STRAIGHT then in the entrance of your Torture , you reprehended Matthaeus Tortus , that he is altogeather full of railings and reproaches . For thus you writ of him : Per librum totum ita petulans , ita immodestè immodestus , ita totus in conuitijs , facilè vt quiuis , Matthaeum Tortum esse , possit intelligere &c. Throughout all his booke so impudent he is , so imodestly immodest , so wholy giuen to reproaches , that euery man may easily perceaue him to be Matthew Tortus &c. But you , Syr , do farre surpasse Matthaeus Tortus in this kind . You spare no man. You prouoke all with some reproach or other , where the least occasion is offered . Pope Clement the 8. you call perfidious , Cardinall Bellarmine , a Vow-breaker , D. Sanders , the greatest lyer of all men liuing , Edmund Campian and others who haue suffered martyrdome for the Catholick fayth , you call Traytors . The Iesuites , Authors of most outragious wickednes , the Catholicks you tearme the race of Malchus , who hauing their right eares cut of , do heare and interpret all with the left . I pretermit , what you haue malepertly vttered against Matthaeus Tortus . 2. These and the like reproaches , which are very familiar with you , as I perceaue , do not beseeme an honest man ; much lesse the Chaplaine or Almenour of a King : yet perhaps do they not altogeather misbecome a Tormentor . Neyther may you excuse your selfe by the example of Matthew Tortus , as though he had first prouoked you to these reproaches . First it is nothing so : and secondly if it had byn so : what ? do you thinke it the part of a Christian man to requite euill with euill ? Truely the Apostle taught vs otherwise , Rom. 12. 17. Nulli malum pro malo reddentes , to wit , that we should not render euill for euill to any man. And lastly , if you would haue done so , why haue you not spared others ? Was not one Tortus inough for you to torture , vnlesse with the like liberty you railed vpon others also ? Hereafter therfore abstaine from the like , and giue eare to that of the Wiseman , Prouerb . 21. 23. Qui custodit os suum , & linguam suam , custodit ab angustijs animam suam . He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue , doth preserue his soule from distresse . And againe Matth. 12. 35. Ex abundantia cordis os loquitur . Bonus homo , de bono thesauro profert bona ; & malus homo de malo thesauro profert mala . Of the aboundance of the hart the mouth speaketh . A good man out of a good treasure , bringeth forth good thinges : and an euill man out of an euill treasure bringeth forth euill thinges . See then what kind of treasure this of yours is , from whence come forth so many reproaches . And beware , Quia maledici Regnum Dei non possidebunt , 1. Cor. 6. For that Raylers shall not possesse the Kingdome of God. THE SECOND CHAPTER : Of the Chaplaines Paradoxes . AFTER your reproaches and railings , follow your Paradoxes , which are many in your booke : but especially these . 1. That the Puritans in England doe sincerely sweare to the Kings Supremacy . 2. That the said Supremacy is to be giuen to the King by all right . 3. That no man hath yet denyed , but that the Kings of the old Testament , had Supremacy in the Church . 4. That the Kinges of the new Testament are Pastors of the flocke of Christ. 5. That Kinges are often called in the Scripture Christes , or , the Annoynted of our Lord ; but Priests or Bishops are neuer so called . 6. That if the Pope were Head of the Church , besides Christ ; it should be a monstrous , and two-headed Church . 7. That if the Pope should haue power to depose Kinges ; Ethnicks ( or Infidels ) were better in condition then Christian Princes . 8. That if the Pope will haue a Temporall Kingdome , it were to be persuaded that he went to the Diuell for it . 9. That power to excommunicate , was not giuen to S. Peter , but vnto the Church . 10. That the Prophesy of the Reuelation of Antichrist is already fulfilled ; and therefore is cleere , and not intricate . 11. That the Kinges of Denmarke and Sweueland , as also the Princes of Germany agree with the King of England in matters of faith . 12. That it is not now free for the King of England to change his owne , or to admit Catholicke Religiō in his Kingdome , for that he hath sworne twice to the contrary . 13. That Cardinall Bellarmine is a Vow-breaker , because of a Iesuite he is become a Cardinall . 14. That Catholicks teach , fidelity not to be kept , and falshood to be lawfull . 15. That Catholickes are of the race of Malchus , because they interprete nothing aright , but all sinistrously . These few heades of many , are now briefly to be examined The first Paradoxe . 2. FIRST therefore you say , that the Puritans in England do sincerely sweare to the Kinges Supremacy . Your wordes are these pag. 379. towardes the end of the page : Quos verò Puritanos appellat , si Regium Primatum detestentur , detestandi ipsi . Profitentur enim , subscribunt , iurant indies : sed & illi , quod faciunt , ingenuè faciunt &c. Those whom he ( to wit Tortus ) calleth Puritans , if they abhorre the Kinges Primacy , they are to be abhorred . For they doe professe , subscribe , and sweare dayly : And moreouer , what they do , they do sincerely &c. that is to say , they sincerely professe the Kings Supremacy , they sincerely subscribe , they sincerely sweare . 3. But your king himself thinketh far otherwise of them in his Premonition to the Emperour , Kings , and Princes . For thus he speaketh : Praeclara sanè laus , praeclarum encomium , quo Puritanos ornaui , cùm me plus fidei , vel in illis efferis , cùm montanis , tum limitaneis latronibus , quàm in hoc genere hominum inuenisse professus sim. Surely I giue a fayre commendation to the Puritans , when I affirme , that I haue found greater honesty with the high-land and border theeues , then with that sort of people &c. Behould now how greatly you differ from your King , your Head , and Ecclesiasticall Primate . Your King professeth , that he hath found more fidelity amongst barbarous or cruell theeues , thē amongst the Puritans : You on the contrary side affirme , that the Puritans , what they do , they do sincerely . So as those to you are sincere men , that to your King are worse then cruell theeues . 4. Againe , saith the King : Ego à Puritanis , non solùm à natiuitate continuò vexatus fui ; verùm etiam in ipso matris vtero propemodum extinctus , antequam in lucem editus essem &c. I haue byn persecuted by the Puritans , not only from my birth , but almost extinguished also , euen in my mothers wombe , before I was yet borne &c. What say you to this ? Will you still chaunt your wonted songe , That the Puritans , what they do , they do sincerely ? To wit , forsooth , as you interprete , they would sincerely haue extinguished the King in his mothers wombe , before he was borne . And is this in your Chapell , to be sincere indeed ? 5. Moreouer the King saith : Ego in meo ad Filium Libro , multò acriùs ac vehementiùs in Puritanos , quàm Pontificios inuectus sum . I in my booke to my Sonne , doe speake ten tymes more bitterly of the Puritans then of the Papists &c. So as by the Kings owne iudgment the Puritans are worse then the Papists : But you call Papistes , Traytors : Ergo , the Puritans are worse then Traytors . And yet notwithstanding you write , that what they do , they do sincerely . 6. Againe the King yet writeth thus : Mihi praecipuus labor fuit , deiectos Episcopos restituere , & Puritanorum Anarchiam expugnare . I haue laboured nothing so much , as to depresse the Puritans Anarchy , and erect Bishops againe &c. To wit , the Puritans affect an Anarchy ( or to be without a King , ) they hate a Monarchy , or Primacy : Contrariwise the King depresseth this Anarchy , and establisheth a Primacy . Now I demaund , if the Puritans detest this Primacy , how do they then sweare thus sincerely thereunto ? Ergo , eyther the Puritans are no longer Puritans : or if they be the men they were ( to wit Puritans , ) they affect Anarchy , and detest Primacy : and so what they do , they do not sincerely , but fraudulently . 7. See then , how contrary in all these thinges you are to the King. Whome he accuseth , you excuse ; and yet from impudency you cannot excuse them . And is it not a great impudencie , and ( if you will ) imprudencie , that the Caluinistes in Germany , and Holland , who are nothing els but Puritans , should dare so often to reprint the foresaid Premonition of your king , wherin they are so manifestlie and sharpely touched ? For what could more belong to their ignominie or disgrace , then to be accompted worse then theeues , & that by the publike testimonie of a King : For as much as they had conspired his death , being yet in his mothers womb ? And is it not impudencie , to diuulge in print againe and againe this their shamefull ignominy , nor yet heereby to feare their publicke infamie ? And yet neuerthelesse with you , what they doe , they doe sin●urely . The second Paradoxe . 8. THE Primacy Ecclesiasticall , say you , is due to Kinges by all Right : For these are your wordes pag. 90. Primatus spiritualis debetur Regibus ●mni Iure . The primacy spirituall is due to Kings by all right . Let vs then see , if it be so . Right , or power , as you know , is deuided into naturall , and positiue : this Right againe is either diuine or humane . Diuine power , is partly of the old Testament , and partly of the new . Humane likewise , is partly Canonicall , partly Ciuill . Will you then that the Primacy Ecclesiastical be due to kings by all these kindes of Right ? It seemeth you would . But in another place you confesse , that it is due by the only Right of the old Testament : Ergo , not by all the former . For thus you write pag. 363. Amore , institutoque Israëlis orditur Apologia : inde enim vim habet , atque neruos suos quaestio haec omnis ( de Primatu . ) In Israele enim populo suo regum instituit Deus , & Ecclesiam in regno ex mente sua . Exemplum inde nolis sumendum est , cùm in Testamento nouo nullam habeamus . Nusquam enim in vnum coaluerunt Ecclesia & Imperium ; procul se habuit Imperium ab Ecclesia &c. From the custome and in●stitute of Israell ( to wit the old Testament ) beginneth our defence : because from thence hath all this question her force , and strength ( to wit of the Supremacy . For in Israel did God erect a Kingdome for his people and in that Kingdome did he found a Church to hi● owne liking . From thence are we to take an example : for so much as in the new Testament we haue none . For no where haue the Church and Empire byn ioyned togeather in one : The Empire hath kep● aloofe of from the Church &c. 9. I doubt not , you will acknowledg these your words , which do condemne you . For if the Question of Supremacy , as here you affirme , hath no other force , then from the custome and institute of the People of Israell ; then is not this Supremacy due to Kings by naturall Right ; nor by diuine of the new Testament ; nor by Canonicall , or Ciuill . How then is it due by all Right ? Againe , if in the new Testament the Church and Empire did no where consist or ioyne togeather in one : Then by right of the new Testament , it is not necessary , that they should consist in one : Ergo , it is not due by all right . And truely , if no where in the new Testament they consisted togeather in one : how commeth it to passe , that now of late in England they be thus vnited togeather in one ? Here you haue plainely brought your selfe into straites . The third Paradoxe . 10. NO man , say you , hath yet denyed , but that the kings of the old Testament had Supremacy in the Church . For thus you write pag. 364. In Israële autem , nondum os reperitam durum , quod negare etiam auderet , praecipuas in re Religionis partes , penes Regem extitisse . In Israell ( to wit the old Testament ) could I neuer yet find any man so impudent that durst deny , but that the principall offices in matters of Religion , were in the Kings power &c. But I haue found , not one , but many , that dare deny the same . Of your owne Countreymen are found that dare deny it , Nicolas Sanders in his second booke Of the visible Monarchy of the Church , and 3. Chapter , in solution of the 5. obiection of Protestants : and Thomas Stapleton in his fifth boke of Doctrinall Principles of faith , the 23. Chapter . Of our men are found that dare deny it , Cardinall Bellarmine in his first booke Of Councells , and 20. Chapter . Iacobus Gretzerus in his second booke Of Considerations to the Deuines of Venice , 1. 2. & 3. Consider . Adam Tannerus in his first booke Of the Defense of Ecclesiasticall liberty the 15. Chapter , and others . 11. All these sayd Authors in the places here cited , propose the argument , which you are wont to vse to proue the Kings Supremacy in Spirituall matters . And it is this : Moyses , Iosue , Dauid , Salomon , Iosias , and other Kings of the old Testament haue had the Primacy of the Church : Ergo , the Kings of the new Testament haue it also . In the solution of which argument , all deny the antecedent . They deny ( I say ) that the kings of the old Testament ( if precisely we respect kingly power ) had the Supremacy of the Church : although they graunt , that some of thē had that power , not by any ordinary Right , as being Kinges , but for so much , as that they were both Prophets and Priestes , by an extraordinary concession or graunt . The wordes of Bellarmine are these : Respondeo primo , Moysen &c. I answere first , that Moyses was not only a Prince , but a chiefe Priest also , as is manifest out of the 98. Psalme , Moyses & Aaron in sacerdotibus eius . Moyses and Aaron were accompted amongst his Priestes &c. Iosue , Dauid , Salomon , and some others , were not only Kings , but also Prophets , to whome God committed many things extraordinarily which otherwise by office and Right belonged to the Priests . And in this sort King Salomon remoued Abiathar from his function of Priesthood , and appointed Sadoc in his place . And this he did not as King , but as a Prophet , by diuine inspiration . Secondly I say ( quoth Bellarmine ) that diuers other good Kings of the Synagogue , did neuer intermeddle in the affaires or offices of the Priests : and if at any time they did , they were sorely punished by God for it &c. Thus farre Bellarmine . The like haue the rest of the forenamed Authors . 12. This notwithstanding , I adde moreouer ( wherein you deceiue , or are deceaued ) that some of the foresaid Authors do not only deny the antecedent , but the consequence of the former argument also : and therfore they admit two solutions . The first is this : We deny ( say they ) that the Kings of the old Testament had Supremacy in the Church . The later this : Although we should grant , that Kings of the old Testament had the Primacy of the Church ; yet would it not follow , by consequence , that the Kings of the new Testament haue the same also &c. For which they assigne diuers reasons . Read what I haue said in solution of the same argument , in my Confutation of the King of Englands Apology , the 2. Chapter . The fourth Paradoxe . 13. YOV say , the Kings of the new Testament are Pastors of the flocke of Christ. And although those wordes Pasce oues meas , ( Feede my sheep ) were spoken to Peter ; yet notwithstanding do they belong to Christian Kings also : And for that there were no Christian Kings in Christs time , to whome the care of his flocke might be committed , therfore they were not spoken to them . For thus you write pag. 53. Rex noster est Dux gregis sub Christo Pastorum Principe . Sunt & alij Reges Christiani ad vnum omnes , sua si iura nossent , & vel vires illis , vel animus non deesset &c. Our King ( to wit of England ) is Head of the flocke vnder Christ the chiefe of Pastors . And so are all other Christian Kings , not one excepted , if either they knew their rights , or that their strength , or courage failed them not &c. And yet more plainely pag. 91. Neque quiquam ad rem , quod de Christo addis , non Regem aliquem , sed Apostolum gregis sui Pastorem designante . Certè , vt nec Regem sub lege , quia nondum ibi Rex vllus ; at vbi iam Rex , tum nec ei Pastoris nomen negatum : Ita sub Euangelio , cùm non essent Reges adhuc , qui tum nulli erant , Pastores esse non poterant . At vbi Reges Christo nomen dederant , tum demum , non minùs pastores hi , quàm olim Reges Israelis . Quòd si autem ab initio statim nomen Christo dedissent , nulla ratio , quò minùs Gregis Christiani Pastores designari potuissent . Neither ( say you ) is that to any purpose , which you ( to wit Tortus ) adde of Christ , appointing not a King , but an Apostle the Pastor of his flocke . Truly , as he appointed no King vnder the law , for that there was yet no King , but when there was a King , then the name of Pastor was not denied him : Euen so vnder the Ghospell when there were not yet Kings , for that being none , they could not be Pastors . But when Kings once became Christians , then at length were they no lesse Pastors , then were of old the Kings of Israell . And if presently from the beginning , they had byn Christians , there can be no reason giuen , why they should not haue byn designed Pastors of the Christian flocke &c. 14. Heere is not one alone , but many Paradoxes , or singular opinions . And first I demaund of you , if in Christs time there had byn any Christian King , whether Christ would haue said vnto him , Pasce oues meas , feed my sheepe ? If you affirme , yea , how proue you it ? Or who did euer affirme it before your selfe ? Or whether are you the first that haue reuealed this mistery to the Christian world ? If you deny it , yow do well . But if Christ did not say to any Christian King , Feed my sheepe ; by what authority do you say now to King IAMES Pasce oues Christi ; feed the flock of Christ ? VVhat ? Will you depose Peter from his Pastorall office , who was ordayned therto by Christ , and suborne your King , who was not ordained by Christ ? Surely , a bould enterprize : and worthy , no doubt , such a Chaplaine . 15. Againe I demaund , what meane these words , Pasce oues meas , feed my flocke ? You ( in the 52. page of your booke ) expound them of the feeding by Word and Doctrine . Be it so . But you your selfe ( Pag. 380. ) doe confesse , that your King doth not feed the sheep of Christ by Word and Doctrine : Ergo , the King , by your owne graunt , is not the Pastor of the flocke of Christ. Neyther can those wordes , Feed my sheep , in the sense that Christ spake them , any way belong vnto the King. Heere you may not so soone quit your selfe , I wot well . For of necessity you must eyther confesse , that these words , ( Feed my sheep ) are not vnderstood of the feeding by Word and Doctrine ; or els that it belongs to the King to feed by Word and Doctrine : or verily , that the King is not the Pastor of Christs flocke . But all these 3. wayes are against you . You will haue the wordes of Christ ( feed my sheep ) to be vnderstood of feeding by Word and Doctrine . You will haue your King not to feed the flocke of Christ by Word and Doctrine : You will haue your King to be the Pastor of Christes flocke . What euasion then can you heere haue ? 16. Thirdly I demand , why do not other Christian Kinges take vpon them this Pastorall office , if they be truly Pastors of Christs flocke ? They would doe it ( say you ) if eyther they knew their rights , or that their strength or courage fayled them not . And what , I pray you , is this , then as much to say , that the King of England is wise , and the rest are fooles ? He hath force and strength , the rest are weake and impotent ? He is couragious , the rest are fearefull and cowardly . Thus it commeth to passe , that whilst you flatter your owne King , you become contumelious against others . The fifth Paradoxe . 17. KINGES , say you , in Scripture are often called Christes , or the Annoynted of our Lord , but Bishops and Priests are neuer so called : and therefore Matthew Tortus did very ill to call the Pope by that Name . Your wordes are these pag. 114. Mihi verò multò magis improprium videtur , quòd Pontificem nouo nomine , nec ei in Scripturis sacris vsquam attributo CHRISTVM DOMINI indigitasti . Truly it seemeth to me much more improper that you haue intitled ( or pointed out ) the Pope with a new name , to wit , The Annointed of our Lord , when as the same was neuer attributed vnto him in Scripture . And a little after , say you : Reges quidem reperio sic in sacris litteris saepè saepiùs nominatos ; Pontifici nomen hoc tributum ibi non memini : Iuuet nos Matthaeus , & vel vnum locum designet in toto volumine Bibliorum , vbi nomen hoc vlli Pontifici , sacri illi scriptores attribuerint . Kinges do I often find , to haue byn often so called in holy VVrit : but I remember not , that this name is there attributed to the Pope . Let Matthew ( to wit Tortus ) helpe vs to find out , though but one place only , in all the volume of the Bible , where this name hath byn giuen to any Priest by any of those sacred wryters &c. 18. But stay ( my friend ) there is no need that Matthew should be sent for out of Italy , to shew you one place . I my self , that am neerer at hand wil assigne you more then one . Heare me then . First Exod. 29. 7. Oleum vnctionis fundes super caput eius ( Aaronis ) atque hoc ritu consecrabitur . Thou shall powre out oyle of Annoynting vpon his head ( to wit of Aaron ) and with this cerimony he shal be consecrated . And Leuit. 4. 3. Si Sacerdos qui vnctus est , peccauerit . If the Priest that is annoynted , shall offend &c. Againe Leuit. 8. 12. Fundens oleum super caput Aaron , vnxit eum & consecrauit . Powring out oyle vpon the head of Aaron , he annointed and consecrated him . And Leuit. 16. 32. Expiabit autē Sacerdos , qui vnctus fuerit . And the Priest that is annointed shall expiate , or reconcile . And Numbers 3. 3. Haec nomina filiorum Aaron Sacerdotum , qui vncti sunt , & quorum consecratae manus , vt Sacerdotio fungerentur . These be the names of the Sonnes of Aaron , the Priests that were annoynted , and whose handes were consecrated to do the function of Priesthood . And againe Num. 35. 25. Manebit ibi donec sacerdos magnus , qui oleo sancto vnctus est , moriatur . He shall stay there , vntill the high Priest , that is annoynted with holy oyle , do dye . 19. Behould heere , you haue diuers places of Scripture , in which Priests are called Annoynted ; and therefore Kinges are not alone so called . This yow might haue learned out of S. August . vpō the 26. Psalme , concerning the title therof , where he teacheth , that in the old Testament , Kinges and Priests were annoynted , for that both of them did prefigure one Christ ( or Annoynted ) which was to be both King and Priest. The wordes of S. Augustine are these : Tunc vngebatur Rex & Sacerdos . Duae istae illo tempore , vnctae personae . In duabus personis praefigurabatur futurus vnus Rex & Sacerdos , vtroque munere vnus Christus ; & ideo Christus à Chrismate . Then was annoynted both the King & the Priest. These two persons at that time were annoynted . In two persons was prefigured to be both a King and a Priest , one Christ in both offices : & therfore was Christ so called , of Chrisme , &c. And againe vpon the 44. Psalme about those words , vnxit te Deus , God hath annointed thee &c. he writeth thus : Vnctum audis : Christum intellige : Etenim Christus à Chrismate . Hoc nomen quod appellatur Christus , vnctionis est : Nec in aliquo alibi vngebantur Reges & Sacerdotes nisi in illo regno , vbi Christus prophetabatur & vngebatur , & vnde venturum erat Christi nomen . Nusquam est alibi omnino , in nulla gente , in nullo regno . Thou hearest ( saith S. Augustine ) Annoynted : vnderstand Christ : For Christ is deriued of Chrisme . This name that is called Christ , is a name of Annointing , or vnction . Neyther were Kings and Priests annoynted in any sort any where , then in that Kingdome , where Christ was prophesied and annoynted , and whence the name of Christ was to come . In no other place is it at all , in no other nation , in no other Kingdome &c. So S. Augustine . 20. Therefore by the iudgment both of Scripture and S. Augustine , no lesse Priests then Kinges , are called Annointed . But you will say they are not called the Lords Annoynted , as Kings are . First I answere , that that 's no matter . For we dispute not of wordes , but of the matter signified by words . Moreouer these two wordes Christ and Annoynted do signify one and the same thinge : and , as S. Augustine speaketh , This Name which is called Christ , is a Name of vnction . And secondly I say , you assume falsly . For that Priests are not called in Scripture Annoynted only , but also Christs . And so we read in the second of Machabees 1. 10. Populus qui est Ierosolymis , & in Iudaea , Senatusque & Iudas Aristobolo Magistro Ptolomei Regis , qui est de genere Christorum Sacerdotum , & his , qui in Aegypto sunt , Iudaeis , salutem & sanitatem . The people of Ierusalem , & Iudea , the Senate and Iudas , do send greeting to Aristobolus Maister to King Ptolomey , who is of the race of Christes ( or Annoynted ) Priests , and to the Iewes that be in Aegipt , &c. Behould heere , Aristobolus is of the race of Christes Priests , therefore Priests are called Christs , that is to say , Annoynted . 21. But you will yet obiect : All these things are vnderstood of Priests of the old Testament : but I would fayne see a place ( say you ) where the Priest of the new Testament ( to writ the Pope ) is called Christ , or Annoynted . Marry hearke you : And I in like māner would as fayne see a place where Kinges of the new Testament are called by that Name . Is it lawfull ( trow yee ) for you to transferre this Name , which was of old giuen to ancient Kinges and Priests by the holy Ghost , to the King of England : and shall it not be lawfull for vs likewise by the same right to transferre it to the Pope ? Heere you take vpon you too much . 22. Moreouer I say , that once only this Name of Christ , or Annoynted is to be found in the new Testament , in that sense whereof we now treat , to wit in the 2. Chapter of S. Luke vers . 29. where it is said : Responsum acceperat Simeon à Spiritu Sancto , non visurum se mortem , nisi priùs videret Christū Domini . Simeon had receiud an answere of the Holy Ghost , that he should nor see death , vnlesse he first saw the Christ ( or Annoynted ) of our Lord. Here our Sauiour is called the Christ of our Lord , to wit , Annoynted of our Lord. He was annoynted both King and Priest as S. Augustine aboue noted , not with corporall oyle , as were the Kings and Priests of the old Testament ; but with spirituall oyle , to wit , of the holy Ghost . For ▪ vpō him rested the spirit of our Lord , the spirit of wisdom & vnderstanding , the spirit of counsell and fortitude , the spirit of knowledg and piety , as it is written in Isay the 11. Chapter vers . 3. And this is that which Dauid foretold Psalme 44. 8. Vnxit te Deus , Deus tuus , ole● laetitiae prae consortibus tuis . God hath annoynted thee , yea thy God , with the oyle of gladnes , before all thy companions : That is to say , God hath annoynted thee Priest and King in a peculiar manner , before all other Kings & Priests . For he annoynted thee with the holy Ghost , and them with corporall oyle only . Heerehence I gather , that wheras the Kings & Priests of the old Testament , were therefore annoynted with corporall oyle , that they might be a Type or figure of the Messias to come , who was to be annoynted both King and Priest with spirituall oyle : so much the more doth this Name Annoynted , or , Christ our Lord , agree to Priests , then vnto Kings , by how much Christ tooke vpon him the office of a Priest in this life , more then of a King. Or els , if he equally tooke vpon him both offices : then by equall right , Priests as well as Kings may be called Annoynted , or , Christs of our Lord And therfore I see no cause , why yow should attribute this Name only to Kings , and take it away from Priests , vnlesse it was , because it pleased your fancy so to do . The sixt Paradoxe . 23. YF besides Christ ( say yow ) the Pope should also be head of the Church , it should be a mōstrous and two-headed Church . For thus you write pag. 331. of your Booke . Monstrosum verò corpus , cui plus vno sit capite . That is a monstrous body , that hath more heads then one . And then againe pag. 398. Vnicum est caput vni corpori : Ecclesia vnum corpus . Nisi bicipitem aquilam fingas , autem tricipitem Geryonem , cui tot capita sunt , quot in mitra Pontificia coronae . Christus ergo solus Ecclesiae caput , non Papa . There is but one only head to one body : The Church is one body . Except you imagine her to be a spread Eagle , or a triple Geryon , who hath as many heades , as there be Crowns in the Popes myter . Christ therfore alone is Head of the Church , and not the Pope . 24. But if it be so , as heere you would beare vs in hand , that it is ; why do you otherwhere affirme ( not a little forgetting your selfe ) that the King is Head of the Church ? Do you not feare least the Church should be double headed , if not Christ alone , but your King also be head thereof ? For thus you say pag. 338. Iam verò vt nomen capitis ad Regem reuocetur , arte mirabili non est opus . Praeiuit nobis voce Spiritus Sanctus 1. Reg. 15. 17. Nonne cùm peruulus esses in oculis tuis , caput in tribubus Israel factus es ? Inter tribus verò Israel , tribus Leui. Caput ergo Rex vel tribus Leuiticae ; qua in tributum Pontifex Achimelech sub Rege capite suo . Chrysostomus camdem hanc vocem Capitis reuocauit ad Theodosium , eumque dixit , non solum caput , sed quod in ipso capite maximè sublime est , capitis verticem , idque omnium in terris hominum . Now that the Name of Head may be giuen to the King , there shall need no great art . The holy Ghost hath gone before vs in this word , 1. Reg. 15. 17. saying : When thou wast a little one in thine owne eyes , wast thou not made head in the Tribes of Israel ? Amongst the tribes of Israel , is the tribe of Leui. Therfore the King is head at least of the Leuiticall tribe : in which Tribe was then the chiefe Priest Achimelech vnder the King his Head. Chrysostome in like manner attributed this Name of Head vnto Theodosius , and called him not only Head , but ( which is most high in the head it selfe ) the top or crowne of the Head , and that of all men on earth &c. 25. I wonder at your inconstancy : A little before you said , that only Christ was head of the Church . And why so ? That you might exclude the Pope , whom you hate . Now you will also haue the King to be head , and not only head , but the top or crowne of the head also . Why so ? Because yow seeke to please and flatter the King. And so it cōmeth to passe , that you will easily endure a two-headed Church , if the King may be one , but in no wise , if the Pope should be any . And when you haue placed Christ and the King of England as two Heads of this Church , then it seemes to you a faire and comely Church : but if Christ and the Pope be placed togeather , then is it deformed & monstrous . Get you hence with this your Head , wherin the Church hath one while one head , another while two . It seemes that , that of Ecclesiasticus 27. 12. may be fittly applied vnto you : Stultus vt luna mutatur . A foole is changed like the moone . And that also of S. Iames 1. 8. Vir duplex animo inconstans est in omnibus vijs suis. A double dealing fellow is inconstant in all his wayes . The seauenth Paradoxe . 26. YOv say , that if the Pope should haue power to depose Kinges ; Ethnickes or Infidels , were better in condition then Christian Princes : to witt , for that these may be deposed by the Pope , the other may not . For thus you write pag. 36. of your booke : Hac doctrina semel promulgata , non multa pòst sceptra , credo , Christo subijcientur . Quid enim ? Rex Ethnicus non potest deponi à Papa , Christianus potest : Meliori ergo iure regnatur apud Ethnicos . Quis non dehin● iem ( sic vt est ) manebit Ethnicus ? Subditi , qui Ethnicisunt , officio suo in Reges laxari nequeunt : at Christiani queunt . Quis non subditos suos malit Ethnicos quàm Christianos ? Quis Christianus Rex esse velit ? This Doctrine ( to wit of deposing Princes ) being once set abroach , I beleeue few Scepters will hereafter be subiected to Christ. For why ? An Ethnicke King cannot be deposed by the Pope , a Christian King may be : therefore it is better to be a King amongst Ethnickes . Who will not hēceforward now ( if he be so ) remayne still an Ethnicke ? Subiects , if they be Ethnickes , cannot be absolued frō their obedience to their Kinges , but Christian Subiects may . Who would not then haue his subiects Ethnickes rather then Christians ? Who would be a Christian King ? 27. You neyther speake warily , nor Christianlike . Not warily : for first what you haue sayd , may be thus retorted vpon you . Yf the King of England should haue power to depose Bishops ( which you affirme ; ) then were the Bishop ; in Spayne , France , and Poland better in condition then the Bishops of England : For that heere they may be deposed at the Kings pleasure , and there not . Secondly , for as we say that Christian Princes may be deposed by the Pope , if they offend , & not Ethnicks : so do you likewise confesse , that Christian Princes may be excommunicated , and not Ethnicks : Yet is it not wel inferred of this your Doctrine , that Ethnickes are better in condition then Christians , seing that it is a greater euill to be depriued of the spirituall goods of the Church by excommunication ; thē of a temporall Kingdome by deposition . And therefore can that be much lesse inferred out of our opinion . 28. You speake not Christianlike . For it is not a Christian mans part thus to dispute : The offences of Kinges are punnished amongst Christians , but not amongst Ethnickes , Ergo , I had rather be an Ethnick Prince , where I may not be punnished , if I offend , then a Christian Prince , where I shall be punnished , if I doe offend . Thus truly you dispute . If ( say you ) Christian Kinges , when they deserue it , may be deposed , and Ethnicks , although they do offend , cannot be deposed ; I had rather be an Ethnicke King then a Christian. And so truly , you playnly shew , that you more esteeme a temporall Kingdome , which you would not loose , then a heauenly Kingdome , which you doe not greatly care for . The eight Paradoxe . 29. YF the Pope ( say you ) will haue a Temporal Kingdome , it were to be perswaded , that he went to the Diuell for it : seing that he hath power to dispose of the Kingdomes of this world . For thus yow write pag. 36. Quod si Pontifici animus est ad regna mundi ; est in Euangelio ( memini ) mentio de quodam , qui regna mundi penes se esse , eaue disponendi ius habere se dixit . Eum adeat censeo ; cum illo transigat . And if the Pope haue a mynd to a temporall kingdome , there is mention in the Ghospel ( I remember ) of a certayne fellow ( to wit the Diuell ) who sayd , that all the kingdomes of the world were in his power , & that he had right to dispose of them . I thinke it best he go vnto him , and couenant with him &c. 30. Say , my friend , speake you this in iest or in earnest ? In whether manner you doe it , you eyther become iniurious to your own King , or els contumelious to the Pope neyther whereof doth well beseeme you . The iniury you offer to your King , yow cannot deny . For durst you ( without iniury ) haue answered your king , eyther in iest or earnest , when as , after the death of Queene Elizabeth , he demaunded the Crowne of England , with these words : If you will raigne in England , go to the Diuell , and couenant with him , who is the distributer of all Kingdomes ? I thinke you durst not . For if you had , then farewell Chaplaineship . Wherfore then dare you be so saucy to speake thus to the Pope , but for that you list to raile vpon him ? 31. But , you will say , the Pope seekes a temporall Kingdome , which is not due vnto him . Let him cōtent himselfe with a spirituall Kingdome . But what if in like manner I should say of your King ? He seeks a spirituall Kingdome . Let him content himselfe with a temporall . Moreouer I adde , that the Pope hath far more right to temporal Kingdomes , then you King hath to the Church : which thing I am to declare more largely in another place . The ninth Paradoxe . 32. YOv say , that power to excommunicate was not giuē vnto S. Peter , but vnto the Church : to wit , by those wordes , Dic Ecclesiae &c. Tell the Church : and if he will not heare the Church , let him be to thee as an Ethnicke . As also by those other wordes : Quaecumque solueris &c. Whatsoeuer you shall loose vpon earth , shall be loosed in heauen and whatsoeuer you bynd vpon earth , shal be bound in heauen &c. And yet notwithstanding you adde , that the Church may transferre this power to whome she please . For thus you write pag. 14. of your booke . Potestas haec ibi , cui data ? Non Apostolo Petro. This power there , to whome was it giuen ? Not to Peter the Apostle . And againe : Vt autem Petro potestas ibi non data censuram hanc vsurpandi ; ita nec Petro , si vsurparet , ratihabitio promissa . Dicitur enim : Quoscumque ligaueritis . Non Petro igitur vel Papae , sed Ecclesiae . And as power was not there giuen to Peter , to vse this censure ; so neyther if he had vsed it , was the ratihabition ( or approuing thereof ) promised to Peter . For it is said : Whomesoeuer ye shall bind : therfore it was not giuen to Peter , or to the Pope , but to the Church . And yet againe , pag. 42. Res ipsa , rei ipsius promissio , ratihabitio , vsus denique Ecclesiae datur : ab Ecclesia , & habetur , & transfertur in vnum , siue plures , qui eius pòst vel exercendae , vel denunciandae facultatem habeant . The thing it selfe , the promise of the thing it selfe , the approuing of it , yea the vse therof is giuen to the Church . From the Church it is both had , and transferred to one or more , who shall afterward haue the faculty to exercise , or denounce the same . 33. Out of this your Doctrine it followeth : first , that in the time of the Apostles , power to excommunicate was immediatly giuen to the Church of the Corinthians , and from thence transferred to S. Paul the Apostle , that he might exercise and publikely denounce the same vpon the incestuous person . But this very point you openly deny in the same place , in these wordes : Paulus congregatis Corinthijs , potestatem censurae denunciandae facit . Paul hauing gathered togeather the Corinthians , giues power to denounce the Censure . Certes , if S. Paul giue power to the Congregation or Church of Corinth to denounce the Censure ( vpon the incestuous person ) as heere you affirme ; how had he then receaued the selfe same power from the same Church ? Or what necessity was there , I pray yow , to giue that power to the Church , if the Church had receaued it before from Christ , by those words , Dic Ecclesiae , tell the Church ? These things do not agree togeather . 34. Secondly it followeth : that now at this present in England the power to excommunicate is immediately in the English Church , and not in the Bishops : and from the Church the same may be transferred to Bishops . But if it be so , why doth not the Church of England giue this power to the King , her Head , and Primate ? Why doth she rather giue it to the Bishopes , then to the King ; when as the Bishops are subordinate vnto the King in spirituall Iurisdiction , as you will needs haue it ? And is it not an absurd thing , that you ( to wit the Church of England ) should giue power to the Bishops , to excommunicate , and cast out of the Church their King , their Head , their Pastor and their Primate , and yet would not giue the same power to the King to inflict the same Censures vpon his subiects , to wit the Bishops ? Surely , you are eyther very cruell towardes your King , or els you do not seriously , and in good earnest giue him the Supremacy . One of the two must needs follow . Therfore looke well with what spirit , you wrote these wordes following in the 151. pag. of your booke ; Nos Principi Censurae potestatem non facimus : We do not giue power to our King to exercise Censures vpon vs. And wherfore do ye not , if you truly acknowledg him for your Pastour & Primate ? But let vs go forward . The tenth Paradoxe ▪ 35. YOv say , that the Prophesy of the reuelation of Antichrist , is already fulfilled and therefore it is so cleere , that it may be seene with the eyes . For thus you write pag. 186. Minimè verò mirum , si ista , quae dixi , tam vel claram , vel certam in scripturis Patrum interpretationem non habeant : signatus adhuc liber huius Prophetiae erat . It is no meruayle , if these things which I haue sayd , be neyther cleere nor certayne in the writinges of the Fathers . For as yet the booke of this Prophesy was not vnsealed &c. And a little after , say you : Mirari tamen non debeat quis , si non illis tam adeo explicita omnia fuerint , quàm Nobis per Dei gratiam iam sunt , qui consummatam iam Prophetiam illam quotidie oculis vsurpamus . But yet let no man meruayle , if all thinges were not then so vnfoulded vnto them , as now by Gods grace they be to vs , who dayly see with our eyes that prophesy ( to wit of Antichrist ) to be already fulfilled &c. 36. And is it so indeed ? But your King thinketh the contrary : For that in his Premonition he playnely auerreth , that , That Prophesy of Antichrist , is yet obscure , and intricate ; and that by only coniectures it may be disputed of . His wordes are these : Sanè quod ad definitionem Antichristi , nolo rem tam obscuram & inuolutam , tamquam omnibus Christianis ad credendum necessariam , vrgere . As for the definition of Antichrist , I will not vrge so obscure a point , as a matter of faith to be necessarily beleeued of all Christians &c. And shall we thinke that , that which is obscure and intricate to your King , is dayly manifest to you ? No ▪ It followeth in the Kings words . Id autem maximè mihi in votis est , vt si cui hanc meam de Antichristo coniecturam libebit refellere , singulis disputationis meae partibus ordine respondeat . And my only wish shal be , that if any man shall haue a fancy to refute this my cōiecture of Antichrist , that he answere me orderly to euery point of my discourse &c. But for you , Syr , it shall not be necessary , to answer thus to euery point : you may dispatch the matter in one word , if you shall but say to your King : And it shall please your Maiesty , you are deceyued in your coniecture : that which is seene with the eye , needs no coniecture . We all dayly see with our eyes this Mystery of Antichrist : And are you the only man in England that seeth it not & c ? Yf you do but thus , you haue gotten the goale . 37. But indeed , you are not onely contrary to the King heerin , but to your selfe also . For if the Prophesy of Antichrist were now already reuealed , and cleere in all mens eyes ( as you affirme : ) who is then this Antichrist , whome the prophesy meaneth ? The Pope , you wil say . And this also doth your King coniecture , though he see it not with his eyes . Well , be it so . But then in another place you say , That your King may be excommunicated by the Pope , though not deposed , or depriued of his Kingdome : Can therefore Antichrist excommunicate your King ? Take heed what you say , and beware least whilst you please your King by flattery , you displease him through imprudency . The eleauenth Paradoxe . 38. THE Kinges of Denmarke ( say you ) & Suetia , as also the Princes of Germany with many others , do agree with the King of England in matters of faith . For thus you write pag. 53. of your booke . Quod si praesentis instituti foret , edoceriposses , Serenissimum Magnae Britanniae Regem , & qui cum eo sentiunt , Reges Daniae , & Suetiae , Germaniae Principes , Respublicas Heluctiae & Rhetiae , quiue per Galliam , Belgium , Poloniam , Hungariam , Bohemiam , Austriam , Ordines à nobis sunt , partem esse Dominici gregis : nec minorem , nec minùs illustrem partem , quàm quae est pars Pauli Quinti . But if it were our present purpose heere to declare , you ( to wit Tortus ) might be taught to know , that the Kinges excellent Maiesty of Great Britany , and they which agree with him , to wit , the Kings of Denmarke and Suetia , the Princes of Germany , the Comon-wealthes of Suitzerland and Rhetia , & all other States , that adherre vnto vs , throughout France , the Low Countryes , Polonia , Hungary , Bohemia , and Austria , are part of the Lords flocke : and not a meaner , nor a lesse famous part , then that of Paul the fifth &c. 39. Yea although it were your present purpose , you could neuer be able to teach vs , that which you hereaffirme . And this I will shew you particulerly . For first you say , your King agreeth ( in matters of faith ) with the Kings of Denmarke and Suetia . But how can this be ? They be Lutheran Princes , and acknowledge Christes Reall Presence in the Eucharist , which your King doth vtterly deny . Secondly , you affirme the same of the Princes of Germany , and States of other Countryes . But these do not agree amongst themselues , some being open Lutherans , and others Caluinistes . How then can they , being deuided amongst thēselues , agree with your King ? except your king ( as you insinuate he doth ) professe Caluinian Religiō with Caluinists , and Lutheran , with Lutherans : Omnibus omnia factus , vt omnes lucrifaciat , being all to all that he may gaine all . Thirdly , suppose this were so , though it be not : and that all Princes and States , as well Lutherans , as Caluinistes did agree among themselues , and togeather with your king ; how can it be verified , that they are a part of the Lords flocke ? This I vnderstand not . I vnderstand it not ( I say ) how they are a part of the flocke , and not the whole flocke : For eyther there be yet others , besides those you haue named which belong to the Lords flocke , or none . If there be others , why then did you not name them ? or who be those others ? I suppose , by your owne iudgement , they are neyther Papists nor Anabaptistes . For these you reiect . If there be no others , besids those you haue named before , wherefore did you then call them a part , & not the whole flocke of Christ ? I will speake yet more cleerely . If the kinges of England , Denmarke , and Suetia , and other Princes and States which agree with them , be but a part of Christs flocke , and not the whole flocke ; then followeth it of necessity , that besides those , there is another part of Christes flocke which agreeth not with them : and so Christs flocke must consist of two partes , wherof one is deuided from the other . Do you thinke so indeed ? If you do not , then explicate your selfe better . 40. But let vs graunt this also , that they are a part of Christs flock that agree with your King in Religiō : with what face dare you yet affirme , that part to be no meaner , nor lesse famous a part , then that of Pope Paul the fifth ? This I vnderstand lesse then the other . For with Paul the fifth , agree Rodulph the Emperour , the Kinges of Spaine , France , Polonia , the Archdukes of Austria , the Princes Electors of Mentz , Treuers , Cullen , the Dukes of Bauaria , Lorayne , Brabant , Franconia , Tuscany , the Bishops of Bamberge , Constance , Spire , Wormes , Paderborne &c. to omit many others : and yet dare you be so bould as to affirme that this is a more meane , and lesse famous part , then that which agreeth with your King in matters of Religion ? You are totoo intemperate in auouching : and I doubt not , but your King , who is of no dull wit , will easily perceaue , that you very grossely flatter him . The tweluth Paradoxe . 41. YOV say , that it is not now free for the King of England to change his Religion , or permit the Catholicke in his Kingdome , because he hath sworne twice to the contrary . For thus you write pag. 81. of your booke , speaking to Tortus . Nec in eo Regi audiendus , qui consilium das de religione liberè habenda : integrum hoc iam illi non est . Nam non semel periurus sit , quin bis , si te audiat . Qua enim ( siqua est fidei bis data conscientia ) vel conscientia , vel fide , ferret in regnis suis ritus vestros , vel vsum eorum publicum , qui susceptâ primùm Scotiae , susceptâ deinde Angliae Coronâ Regiâ , vtrolique solemni ritu , Deo iusiurandum praestitit de conseruanda in Statu suo illa colendi Dei formula , nec alia , quàm quae in regnis suis tum publicè recepta , & vtriusque Gentis legibus stabilita esset ? Neither in this point are you to be heard of the King , in that you giue him counsaile to permit the free exercise of religion ; this being not lawfull for him now to do . For that therby he shall not be once , but twice periured , if he heare you herin . For with what fayth or conscience ( if there be any conscience of fayth twice giuen ) can he admit your cerimonies , or the publike vse therof , who when he was first Crowned in Scotland , and after in England , did most solemnely sweare to God in both places , to mantaine in his Dominions that forme of Religion , and no other , which was then receaued publikely in his Kingdomes , and established by the lawes of both Realmes & c ? 42. Truly I perceaue you threaten your King , that he shall be accompted periured , if he permit the Catholicke Religion in his Kingdome , or forsake his owne , & imbrace another . What ? do you not thinke it lawfull for him to change his Religion , if he haue sworne he will not do it ? So it seemes , belike . But , how if the Religion be false which he hath sworne to mantaine ? What shall he then do ? Shall he persist rather in his false Religion , then breake his oath ? Take heed what you say . An oath ( say the Lawiers ) is no band of iniquity , and I may adde , nor of falsity . And therfore notwithstanding an oath neuer so often made , a man may change his Religion if it be false : he may annull his pact or couenant , if it be vniust . This is most certaine . What would you do if your King should say , that the Religiō is false which he now professeth ? Would you vrge him vpon his oath ? That , in an euill act , is annulled . What ? Would you persuade him to forsake his false Religion , & imbrace the true ? I thinke you would . Why do you then dissemble ? Why do you so much vrge the King vpon his oath , as though vpon no occasion or euent soeuer it were lawfull to chang a Religion that is once confirmed by an oath , although it be impious and false ? Go too , gather your wittes togeather a little better , and then speake . 43. One thing I would yet demaund of you , and that is this : Your King in his booke of Premonition , doth exhort Catholicke Kings and Princes , that they should forsake the faith and Religion , which hitherto they haue professed vnder the Pope , and imbrace the English Religion which the King professeth . Now , it is well knowne , that most of these Princes , in their Coronation do sweare , that they will neuer do it , to wit , change their Religion . Heere I demaund ( I say ) whether your King hath lawfully and prudently exhorted them to do it , or no ? If he hath done it lawfully and prudently , why do you accuse the Catholickes , who do but the like in a better cause ? If he did it vnlawfully and imprudently ; why did you not admonish him , to surcease from such an , Exhortation : seeing yow are his Chaplaine , and perhaps in this matter , his Secretary ? Thus you stumble at euery blocke . The thirtenth Paradoxe . 44. YOv say , that Cardinall Bellarmine is a Vow-breaker , because of a Iesuite he is become a Cardinall . For thus you write pag. 56. At votum non video cur à Mattheaeo ( Torto ) nominari debuit , nisi si interposita voti mentione , Domino suo ( Bellarmino ) gratificari voluit , quo olim Iesuita factus , voti se reum fecit , & hoc votum iam fregit , postquam ostrum induit . But I do not see how it can be called a vow by Matthew ( Tortus , ) vnlesse , in mentioning of the same , he would needes gratify his Maister ( Bellarmine ) , who being somtime a vowed Iesuite , hath now broken that vow by putting on purple &c. 45. It seemes you vnderstand aswell what it is to be a Vow-breaker , as a periured person . And euen as a little before you did pronounce your King to be forsworne , if he should admit Catholicke Religion in his Kingdome : So now you pronounce Cardinall Bellarmine to be a Vow-breaker , because against his will he admitted the Dignity of a Cardinal . Truly you are very ready to vpbraid and taunt . And why , I pray you , doe you not call Luther , a Vow-breaker , who of a Monke became a married man ( if he may be called a married man , and not rather a sacrilegious fornicator and adulterer ? ) Why not also a periured person , that reiecting the ancient faith , which he had receyued from Christ , the Apostles , and his Ancestours most holy and learned men , and sealed with an oath , did imbrace a new Religion , repugnant to Christ and the truth ? 46. That you may therefore vnderstand the matter , heare then what followeth : It is one thing to vow , or promise to God any thing absolutely and simply ; and another thing to doe it with a certayne limitation . He that voweth after the first manner , is bound to performe that which he promiseth : he that voweth after the second māner may be quit of his band , when the limitation therof doth suffer the same . Exāples herof we haue in the old Testamēt . For the Daughters & Wiues did vse to vow with this limitation , to wit , if their Parents and Husbāds did consent therto . ( Numb . 30. ) The Nazaraeans in like manner vowed with this limitation , to wit , they bound themselues for a certaine time only , & not for their whole life . ( Numb . 6. ) So likewise doe we in our SOCIETY . He that bindeth himself by a simple vow , is not thought to be otherwise obliged thē at the arbitrement of his Superiours : So as if he should be by them , for a iust cause , dismissed out of the SOCIETY , the band or obligation ceaseth . But he that bindeth himselfe by a solemne vow , dependeth on the arbitrement of the Pope , who may take him from the SOCIETY , and place him in any other Degree or Dignity . And what new thing is this now I pray you ? The like is dayly exercised amongst you . You promise your King Allegiance and Obedience , but with this double limitatiō . First , as long as you remaine in England . Secondly , as long as the King doth not chang his Religion . For if it be otherwise , you thinke you are not bound thereunto . The fourteenth Paradoxe . 47. YOV say , the Catholickes teach , fidelity not to be kept , and falshood to be lawfull . For thus you write pag. 156. of your booke . Vos qui fidem non seruandam , id est , perfidiam licitam , legitimamque docetis ; etiámne vos quicquam de perfidia audetis hiscere ? & in turpitudinem vestram , etiam vel nomen nominare ? You , that teach fidelity not to be kept , that is to say , falshood to lawfull ; dare you ( I say ) as much as once open your lippes against falshood or perfidiousnes ? or to name the thing to your owne shame ? 48. But stay , my friend ; who be they with vs that teach this doctrine ? If your set purpose be nothing els , but to deale falsely and to calūniate , it is no great meruaile , if you write thus . For ( be it spoken with your good leaue ) this is a loudlye , and a manifest calumniation . But if you be desirous of truth ( as it becommed you to haue byn ; ) why did you not examine the matter first , before you wrote it downe ? No doubt , but you should haue found another kind of doctrine amongst Catholicks . And if you yet please , you may see , what I haue formerly written of this argument in my Disputation , Of keeping faith ( or promise ) to Heretickes : and in my Sundry mixt Questions of the same matter . And there shall you find , what the Catholickes truly and really thinke of this point ; and vvhat our Aduersaries do falsely calumniate . The fifteenth Paradoxe . 49. YOV say , that the Catholicks are of the race of Malchus , for that they heare and interprete all with the left eare , and nothing with the right . For thus you write pag. 92. of your booke : Interea tamen dextrâ datum , dextrâ positum , quicquid in Iuramento positum . Quod dextrâ datum est , vos sinistrâ accepistis , & de Malchi prosapia estis , cui praecisa auris dextra : nec vlla vobis auris reliqua , nisi sinistra , qua auditis omnia ; omnium , quae à nobis dicuntur , sinistri auditores & interpretes . In the meane while notwithstanding , whatsoeuer is put in an oath , is giuen with the right , is put with the right . That which is giuen with the right , you receaue with the left , and are of the race of Malchus , who had his right eare cut of : Neither haue you any right eare , but a left , wherwith you heare , all things ; and become the sinister hearers and interpreters of all things , that are said by vs &c. 50. Thus you hould on , after your wonted manner , either to trifle , or calumniate . But I care not . Let vs graunt , what you say , to wit , that the Catholiks are of the race of Malchus . What get you by this ? Truly nothing that makes against vs. For do you not know , out of the Ghospell , that assoone as Malchus his right eare was cut of , it was againe presently restored by Christ ? And to this end , that he should heare or interpret nothing with the left , but all with the right eare ? If you therfor wil haue vs to be of the race of Malchꝰ , you must confesse , that this was so brought to passe by Christ for vs , that we should heare and interpret all with our right eares , and nothing with our left alone . 51. But if I listed in like sort to iest , I would not say , that you were of the race of Malchus , whose eare was cut of ; but rather of the race of the Iewes , who haue eares , and yet heare not , according to that of S. Matthew 13. 14. Auditu audietis &c. You shall heare with you eares , and you shall not vnderstand ; and seeing , you shall see , and shall not see . For the hart of this people is waxed grosse , and with their eares they haue heauily heard : and their eyes they haue shut &c. and the rest that followeth . But I will not deale so with you . THE THIRD CHAPTER : Of the Kinges Supremacy badly defended by his Chaplaine . SEING you haue once determined to flatter the King , you go about to defend and approue whatsoeuer you imagine will please him . And with this mind & desire , you are imboldned to defend the Primacy of the Church , which he vsurpeth to himselfe . But truly very vnluckily : For in this kind you commit a double fault . First because you bring many Arguments which do ouerthrow the Kings Supremacy , which yet you do for lacke of foresight . SECONDLY because the Argumentes you bring for proofe of the said Supremacy in the King , are of so small reckoning or accompt , as they seeme contemptible . I will lay them both open before you : and for that which belongeth to the first head or point , these Arguments may be deduced out of your owne Principles , against the Kings Supremacy . The first Argument , against the Kings Supremacy , taken out of the Chaplaines owne Doctrine . 2. THE first Argument I frame thus : He hath not the Primacy of the Church , who hath no iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , neither in the interiour Court , nor exteriour : But the King , out of your owne Doctrine hath no iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , neither in the interiour Court , nor exteriour : Ergo , he hath not the Primacy of the Church . The maior proposition is cleare of it selfe , because by the name of Primacy , we vnderstand nothing els in this place , but supreme Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall . He then who hath no iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall , neither internall nor externall , hath not the Primacy of the Church : But the King , by your doctrine hath none , neither internall , nor externall . 3. Not internall : For that this Iurisdiction consisteth in the power of the Keyes , or in the power or authority of forgiuing sinnes in the Court of Consciēce , which the King hath not , as you confesse pag. 380. of your booke , in these words : Rex non assumit ius Clauium . The King doth not assume , or take vpon him , the power of the Keyes . And worthily . For that Christ spake not to Kings , but to the Apostles , when he said , Accipite Spiritum Sanctum &c. Receyue the holy Ghost : whose sinnes you forgiue , shal be forgiuen them : and whose sinnes you retaine , shal be retained &c. 4. Not externall : For this I will euidently euince out of your owne Principles , which are these three . The first , that the Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall of the exteriour Court , is not founded vpon any other place , then that of S. Matthew 18. 17. Dic Ecclesiae &c. Tell the Church : if he will not heare the Church , let him be vnto thee , as an Ethnicke and Publicane . Your second Principle is , that the Iurisdiction which is founded on that place , is nothing els , then the Right of Censuring , or power to excommunicate . Your third is , that the King hath not the Right of Censuring , or power to excommunicate . I doubt not , but you will acknowledg these your three Principles . And the last , you set downe pag. 151. of your booke in these words : Nos Principi potestatem Censurae non facimus . We do not giue power , or authority to the King to vse Censures . And againe pag. 380. Rex non assumit ius Censurae . The King doth not take vpon him the Right or power of vsing Censures . The former two Principles you in like manner set downe pag 41. thus : Censura duplex est ; Publicani & Ethnici ; minor & maior . Minor à Sacramentis excludit modò . De maiore verò , quae arcet Ecclesia ipsa , quae perinde reddit , vt Ethnicos , vix quisquam est , quin fateatur , institutam eam à Christo , Matth. 18. per verba , Dic Ecclesiae ; si Ecclesiam non audierit , sit tibi sicut Ethnicus . De exteriori foro ibi agitur . Exterioris fori Iurisdictio , illo , nec alio loco fundata est . A Censure is two-fold ; to witt of the Publican & Ethnick ; the lesser and the greater . The lesser doth exclude frō Sacraments for the present . But as for the greater , which casteth out of the Church it selfe , and maketh men like vnto Ethnicks , there is scarce any man , but will confesse , that it was instituted by Christ Matth. 18. by these words . Tell the Church ; if he will not heare the Church , let him be vnto thee as an Ethnicke . And in that place is it meant of the exteriour Court : the iurisdiction of which exteriour Court is grounded on that , and no other place &c. Marke well what heere you say . The iurisdiction of the externall Court , where is it founded in the Ghospell ? In no other place , ( say you ) then in Matth. 18. It is wel . I desire no more . 5. Hence then do I thus now conclude : All Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall of the externall Court , is founded in that only place , Dic Ecclesiae , tell the Church : But the King hath not the Iurisdiction that is founded in that place : Ergo , he hath no iurisdiction founded in the Ghospell of Christ , but in the braynes of his Chaplayne . Consider now well , how you will deale with your King , who by your own Doctrine is deuested of all Ecclesiasticall power : and recall those wordes of yours , that you wrote pag. 90. of your Booke , Primatus spiritualis debetur Regibus omni iure . The spirituall Primacy is due vnto Kinges by all right . No truly , not by all right : for , as now yow confesse , they haue it not by right of the Ghospell , or new Testament . The second Argument . 6. THE second argument which I produce , no lesse forcible then the former , is this : He hath not the Supremacy of the Church , who cannot ( by his power Spirituall ) expell out of the Church , any man , although he be neuer so guilty or faulty : and yet himselfe , if he be guilty , may be expelled by others : or ( which is the same thing ) cannot excommunicate any man , and yet may be excommunicated himself by others . But your King , by your owne Doctrine cannot excommunicate , or cast out of the Church any mā ; and yet himself may be excommunicated , and cast out by others : Ergo , according to your Doctrine , he hath not the Primacy of the Church . 7. The Maior is certayne , and is manifest by a like example . For as he is not accompted a King , who cannot banish or exile out of his Realme any man , though neuer so wicked ; and yet himselfe notwithstāding may be banished and exiled by others , if he offēd : euen so standeth the matter in this our case . Now I subsume thus : But the King can excommunicate , or cast out of the Church no man , because he hath not the Right or power to censure , as your self speaketh : & yet notwithstanding may he be excommunicated himself , or driuen out of the Church , as you confesse pag. 39. of your Booke in these words : Aliudest priuare Regem bonis Ecclesiae communibus , quod facit sententia , & potest fortè Pontifex : aliud priuare bono proprio , idest regno suo , quod non facit sententia , nec potest Pontifex . Priuabit censura Pontificis societate fidelium , quâ fideles sunt : bonum illud enim spirituale & ab Ecclesia . Non priuabit obedientia subditorum , quâ subditi sunt : bonum enim ciuile hoc , nec ab Ecclesia &c. It is one thing to depriue a King of the cōmon ( or spirituall ) goods of the Church which the sentence ( of Excommunication ) doth , & perhaps the Pope can : It is another thing to depriue him of his owne proper good , to wit , his Kingdome , which the sentence ( of Excommunication ) doth not , nor the Pope can . The Popes Censure shall depriue , or exclude him from the society of the faithful , in that they be faithfull : for that is a spirituall good and dependeth of the Church . But it shall not depriue him of the obediēce of his subiects , in that they be his subiects : for this is a ciuil ( or temporal ) good , nor doth it depend of the Church &c. Then I conclude thus : Ergo , the King by your owne sentence hath not the Supremacie of the Church . 8. And by this Argument , which is taken out of your owne Doctrine , I not onlie proue , the King to haue no Supremacie Ecclesiastical : but also that himselfe doth thinke far otherwise , in this point , then you do . For you confesse out of your former wordes , that the King may be excommunicated by the Pope : Ergo , you must also confesse , that the King in this case is inferior to the Pope . But your King in his Premonition to all Christian Princes , denieth it in these words : Nā neque me Pontifice vlla ex parte inferiorem esse credo , pace illius dixerim . For neither do I think my selfe any waie inferiour to the Pope , by his leaue be it spoken . Yf he be no waie inferiour vnto him ; how can he then be excommunicated or punished by him ? See then by what meanes you will heere defend your King. The third Argument . 9. MY third Argument is drawne from your own wordes pag. 177. of your Booke , which are these : Duo haecregna , Reipublicae & Ecclesiae , quamdiu duo manent , hoc ab illo diuisum , duos habent : postquam in vnum cealescunt , non vt in ducbus duo , sed vt in vno vnus Primus est . These two Kingdomes , to wit , of the Common-wealth and the Church , so long as they remaine two , this deuided from that , they haue two Heades : but after they become one , not as two in two , but as one in one , there is but one Chiefe &c. This you would say : There be two distinct Kingdomes in this world , one of the Ciuil Comon-wealth , another of the Church of Christ : These Kingdomes so long as they remaine two , haue two Primates , or Heades : but when they grow into one , they haue but one Primate or chiefe Head. I accept that which you graunt , and do subsume thus : But in the new law , which Christ instituted , there remayne two Kingdomes ; nor are they become one : Therefore in the new Law , there must be two distinct Primates , or Heads , one whereof must rule the Church , the other the Ciuill Commonwealth : Ergo , the King of England , if he belong to the new Law , doth not rule both at once . 10. What can you heere now deny ? Tell me , I pray you , in Christes time , when the new Law was instituted , were these two Kingdomes deuided , or were they one ? This later , you neyther can , nor dare affirme . For if the Church and Common-wealth had byn one in Christes tyme , then should there haue byn but one Chiefe or Head of both , according to your owne doctrine . And therefore eyther Christ should haue byn Chiefe both of the Church & common wealth , which you will not graunt ; or els he should haue byn Chiefe or Head of neyther , which is against Scripture . It remayneth then , that in Christs tyme those two Kingdomes were distinct & deuided , and had two different Primates or Heads ; to wit Christ , Head of the Church , and the King or Emperour , Head of the Common-wealth . 11. But now if in Christs tyme , there were not one and the same Chiefe , or Head , both of the Church and Common-wealth , which you ought to graunt ; how then dare your King , who professeth the Institution of Christ , vsurpe vnto himselfe both Primacies , to wit , both of the Church , & commonwealth : vnlesse you will say , that he followeth herin the custome of the Iewes , and not of the Christians , & so in this point is more like a Iew then a Christian. For this you doe seeme to insinuate , when as pag. 363. of your Booke you say : A more , institutoue Israelis orditur Apologia &c. From the custome and institute of Israel ( to witt the old Testament ) our Apology or defence beginneth , and from thence hath all this question her force and strength ( to wit of the Supremacy . ) For in Israell did God erect a Kingdome for his people , & in that Kingdome he founded a Church to his owne liking . From thence are we to take example : for so much , as in the new Testament we haue none . For no where haue the Church and Empire byn ioyned , or vnited togeather in one &c. 12. Out of this your so cleare and manifest confession I gather two things . The one is , that your King of England doth vsurpe vnto himselfe the Primacy both of the Church and Cōmon wealth , without any example therof in the new Testament . The other : that either your King of England must needs be deceaued , or els that other Kings and Emperours are in errour . For if , as you say , the Church and Empire no where in the new Testament haue conioyned togeather in one ; & that yet now in England they are vnited in one : it followeth necessarily , that hitherto all Kings and Emperours haue erred in this point , & your King only is the first that is vvise : or els , truely , ( which is more credible ) that other Kings and Princes haue heerin beene wise , and your King to haue beene deceaued , and missed the marke . 13. But I see well , what may be heerto obiected , and that is this : That the Pope , forsooth , in some part of Italy doth vsurpe also the Primacy both of the Cōmonvvealth and Church . I confesse it to be so . But this conioining ( to vvit , of temporall and spirituall states ) hath beene introducted by humane right only : but you contend that your King hath both Primacies by diuine right . And this you cannot proue . The fourth Argument . 14. THE fourth Argument , is taken out of the wordes of your Booke , pag. 35. & 36. where you say : Christus enim , cuius hic vicem obtendis , non sic praefuit , dum in terris fuit . Regnum quod de mundo fuit , non habuit . Regni , quod non habuit , vices non commisit . Christ , vvhose office you pretend , did not so rule , when he liued vpon earth : he had no Kingdome which vvas of this world : He gaue not another his place in a Kingdome , which he had not &c. And thē againe a litle after say you : Est ille quidem Rex Regum , sed quâ Regum Rex est , immortalis est ; mortalem nullum Proregem habet . Papa mortalis ipse , non aliter Christi vicarius , quàm quâ mortalis Christus . He truly ( to wit Christ ) is King of Kings , but in that he is King of Kings , he is immortall : he hath no mortall Viceroy ( or Vicar . ) The pope is mortall ; nor he is otherwise the Vicar of Christ , then in that Christ is mortall &c. 15. In these words you go about to proue , that the Pope , although he be Christs Vicar ; yet hath he no temporall Kingdome . You suppose Christ to be considered two manner of waies . First , as he is immortall , or according to his Diuinitie : Secondly , as he is mortall , or according to his humanity . This done , you argue thus : Christ according to his Diuinity , or , in that he is immortall , is King of Kings , and hath all the Kingdomes of this world in his power , yet notvvithstanding hath he no mortall Vicar or Substitute : But the Pope is mortall : Ergo , he is not the Vicar of Christ , in that Christ is immortall , or God. Againe : Christ according to his Humanity ( say you ) or , as he is mortall , hath no temporall Kingdome : and therfore cannot haue any Vicar or Substitute in a temporall Kingdome : Ergo , the Pope , although he be his Vicar , yet is he not so in his temporall Kingdome , but in his Spirituall . 16. This is the force of your Argument . But do you not see that this may be in like manner retorted backe vpon your King ? Yea by the very same argument your King may be deuested , both of his temporall Kingdome , and his Supremacy in the Church . Which I proue thus : If your King haue a temporall Kingdome , he hath it either as the Vicar of God immortall ( which he pretendeth , ) or els as the Vicar of Christ mortall . But neither of these may be said . Not the first : Because God , as he is immortall , hath no mortall Vicar , as you freely affirme : But your King , without all doubt is mortall : Ergo , he is not the Vicar of God immortall . Not the later : Because Christ , as he is mortall , hath no temporall Kingdome , and consequently no temporall Vicar : Ergo , your King is not the Vicar of Christ , in his temporall Kingdome . And so , he is either deuested of all temporall dominion : or if he haue any , he must needes be some other bodies Vicar , then Gods immortall , or Christs mortall . This , I know : you will not graunt , therfore the other must be graunted . 17. Hence do I further conclude : Your King doth not vsurpe vnto himselfe the Primacy of the Church , by any other title , then that he is a temporall Prince and the Vicar of God : But now I haue shewed out of your owne doctrine that he is not a temporall King , nor the Vicar of God : Ergo , by the title of a temporall Prince , he cannot claime the Primacy of the Church . Heere you had need to succour him , if you can . The fifth Argument . 18. THE fifth Argument may be taken out of your owne wordes , before rehearsed , pag. 39. of your booke thus : Aliud est priuare Regem bonis Ecclesiae communibus &c. It is one thing to depriue a King of the commō ( or spirituall ) goods of the Church , which the sentence ( of excommunication ) doth , & perhaps the Pope can . It is another thing to depriue him of his owne proper good , to wit , his Kingdome , which the sentence ( of excōmunication ) doth not , nor the Pope can . The Popes Cēsure shal depriue or exclude him frō the society ( or cōmunion ) of the faithfull , in that they be faithful , for that is a spiritual good , & depēdeth of the Church . But it shal not depriue him of the obediēce of his subiects , in that they be subiects ; for this is a ciuil ( or tēporall ) good , nor doth it depend of the Church &c. 19. Heere you distinguish two sorts of good things which belong to the King. Some you call Spirituall , which depend of the Church : others Ciuill , which depend not of the Church . You adde : These ( to wit Ciuill ) are proper to the King , of which he cannot , by Censure , be depriued : The other , are the common goods of the Church , of which he may be depriued . Now I demaund whether the Primacy of the Church , which the King vsurpeth , belonge to the common goods of the Church , or rather to his owne eiuill or temporall goods ? One of these two must you graūt , if your distinction be good and sufficient . If this Primacy belong to the common goods of the Church , it followeth then , that euery faithfull Christian , that is in the Church , is no lesse Head of the Church , then your King. For that the goods , which be common to all Christians being in the Church , may no lesse be vsurped of one then of another . But if this Primacy belong to the Ciuill goods of the Church ; then it followeth , that the King cannot be depriued of the Primacy of the Church by any Ecclesiasticall Censure : and therfore after that he is excommunicated , and cast out of the Church , as an Ethnicke , vet in him remaineth the Primacy of the Church : which is most absurd . 20. The like Argument is taken out of your words following , which are these pag. 40. of your booke . Rex quiuis cùm de Ethnico Christianus fit , non perdit terrenum ius , sed acquirit ius nouum ; put â , in bonis Ecclesiae spiritualibus . I tidem cùm de Christiano fit sicut Ethnicus , vigore sententiae amittit nouum ius , quod acquisierat in bonis Ecclesiae spiritualibus ; sed retinet tamen terrenum ius , antiquum ius in temporalibus quod fuerat illi proprium , priusquam Christianus fieret . Euery King when of an Ethnicke he is made a Christian , doth not therby loose his temporall right , but getteth a new right , to wit , in the spirituall goods of the Church . In like manner , when of a Christian he is made an Ethnicke ( to wit by Excommunication ) he , by force of the Censure , leeseth his new right , which he had gotten in the spirituall goods of the Church : but yet notwithstanding he keepeth his temporall right , his ancient right in temporalities , which was proper vnto him , before he was a Christian. 21. Heere also do you distinguish the double right of a King : the one ancient and temporall , which a King hath before he be a Christian ; the other new and spirituall , which he getteth , when he is made a Christian . Now in like manner I demaund , whether doth the Supremacy of the Church which your King vsurpeth , belong to that ancient & temporall right , or rather to this new and spirituall ? If it belong to the ancient and temporall right ; it followeth , that Ethnicke Kings before they be made Christians , haue the Supremacy of the Church , which is absurd . If it belong to the new and spirituall right ; it followeth , that Kings , when in baptisme they be made Christians , or members of the Church , do receaue more in their baptisme then other men ; which in another place of your Booke you deny . For you contend , that all men , of what sort or degree soeuer they be , are equall vnto them , in those things , which are obteined through baptisme . The sixt Argument . 22. THE sixt Argument you insinuate pag. 53. of your booke , when you say : Nec enim Regum subditi , quâ subditi , Ecclesiae pars vlla sunt , sed Regni . Antequam de Ecclesiae essent , subditi erant ; cùm extra Ecclesiam sunt , nihilominus manent subditi . Quâ fideles sunt , pars Ecclesiae sunt : quâ subditi sunt , Regni ac Reipublicae p●rs sunt . Neyther are the subiects of a King , in that they be subiects , any part of the Church , but of the Kingdome . Before they were of the Church , they were subiects : when they are out of the Church , notwithstanding they remaine subiects . In that they be faithfull , ( or Christians ) they are a part of the Church : In that they be subiects , they are a part of the Kingdome and Commonwealth . 23. Heerhence do I argue thus : The Iurisdiction of a King , doth not extend it selfe but to the subiects of the King , in that they are subiects ( for if we regard them , in that they be not subiects , they cannot be vnder the Iurisdiction of the King : ) But the subiects of a King , in that they be subiects , are not a part of the Church , but only of the commonwealth , as you affirme : So as the Iurisdiction of a King which he hath ouer his subiects , in that they be subiects , cannot be Ecclesiasticall , but Ciuill only : Ergo , they are not subiect to the King in Ecclesiasticall affaires , but only in Ciuill . Nothing is more certaine out of this your owne Principle . THE CHAPLAINES Argument for the Kinges Supremacy . 24. HItherto haue I shewed , that out of your owne doctrine strong Argumentes may be drawne to ouerthrow the Kings Supremacy : Now let vs see , if your others be as forcible to the contrary , wherwith you goe about to establish the same Supremacy in the King. I will pretermitt those , which are common to you , and your King , and are by me refuted otherwhere . One , which is most peculiar and principall to your selfe , I will heere discusse . Thus then you propose it , in the 157. page of your Booke . Dixit autem olim Iosue populus , in omnibus pariturum se ei , sicut & Moysi paruerunt ; paruerunt autem & Moysi in Ecclesiasticis . Non intercessit tum Pontifex Eleazarus , ne in omnibus , sed temporalibus . Quòd si quicquam interesse putet , quòd Iosue verus Dei cultor fuit , ne in Orthodoxis solis locum habere videatur ; Rex Babel certè , haeretico par , nempe Idololatra , cui tamen Propheta non modò non dissuasit populo , sed author etiam fuit submittendi colla sub iugo eius , eique seruiendi . Idem Pharaoni factum , cuius absque veniâ , nec pedem mouere voluerunt de Aegypto , vt Deo sacrificarent . Idem Cyro , cuius itidem absque veniâ nec excedere Chaldaea , vt templum aedificarent &c. The people sometyme sayd vnto Iosue , that they would obay him in all thinges , as they had obeyed Moyses , but they obeyed Moyses in Ecclesiasticall matters . Nor did the high Priest Eleazarus then meddle , no not in any thing , but in temporall . But if any man shal thinke this more to auayle , because Iosue was a true worshipper of God , and least this right should seeme to haue place in only Orthodoxall , or right-beleeuing Kinges ; Behould then the King of Babel , equall to an Hereticke , to wit an Idolater , whome notwithstanding the Prophet not only not dissuaded the people to obay , but also was Author , that they submitted their neckes vnder his yoke , & serued him . The like was done to Pharao , without whose leaue , they ( to wit the Iewes ) would not mooue a foot out of Aegypt , that they might sacrifice to God. And the same to Cyrus without whose leaue in like māner , they would not depart out of Chaldaea , that they might build their Temple &c. 25. The force of your Argument is this , that not only Orthodoxall Kings in the old Testament , but Gentiles also & Idolaters had the Primacy of the Church ▪ Ergo , the same is to be said of Kinges of the new Testament . The former part of the antecedent you proue by the example of Iosue , to whome the people of the Iewes said ( Ios. 1. 17. ) As we haue obeyed Moyses in all thinges , so will we obey you . But they obeyed Moyses , not only in temporall matters , but also in Ecclesiasticall : Ergo , did they so obey Iosue . The later you proue by the example of the three Gentile Kinges , Nabuchodonosor in Babylon , Pharao in Egipt , and Cyrus in Chaldaea , to whome the Iewes were subiect , euen in Ecclesiasticall matters , because without their leaue , they durst neyther offer Sacrifice , nor build their Temple . 26. That you may then see , of what small moment this your Argument is ; I will briefely examine euery part therof . And first I will speake something of Moyses : secondly of Iosue , who succeeded him : and thirdly of the Gentile Kings which you haue cited . Concerning Moyses then , it is certaine , that he was not only a Temporall Prince , but an Ecclesiasticall also : or if we speake all , he susteyned a quadruple person , or the person of foure men . The first of a Temporall Prince , the second of a Law-maker , the third of a high Priest , or Bishop , and the fourth of a Prophet . And this is testified by Philo lib. ● . of the life of Moyses in the end , where he saith : Haec est vita , hic exitus Moysis , Regis , Legislatoris , Pontificis , Prophetae . This is the life and death of Moyses , a King , a Law-maker , a high Priest , and a Prophet . And the same is plainly euinced out of the Scripture . That he was a temporall Prince or Iudge , it is manifest by that of Exodus 18. 13. Altera die &c. And the next day Moyses sate to iudg the people , who stood by Moyses from morning vntill night : which thing S. Augustine mentioneth in his 68. quaest . vpon Exodus thus : Sedebat ( inquit ) iudiciaria potestate solus , populo vniuerso stante . He sate ( saith S. Augustine ) alone with power to iudge , all the people standing . That he was a Law-maker , it is manifest , as well by other places , as that of S. Iohn 1. 17. Lex per Moysen data est . The law was giuen by Moyses . That he was a Bishop or high Priest , is partly gathered out of that of the Psalme 98. 6. Moyses & Aaron in Sacerdotibus eius . Moyses and Aaron are numbred amongst his Priests : and partly also by the Priestly fūction , that he exercised . For that ( as it is written Leuit . 8. ) he consecrated Aaron a Priest , he sanctified the Tabernacle and the Aultar , he offered Sacrifice , Holocaustes , and Incense to our Lord. And this was not lawfull for any to do , but Priests , according to that of 2. Paralip . 26. 18. Non est officij tui , Ozia , vt adoleas incensum Domino , sed sacerdotum . It is not your office , Ozias , to offer incense to our Lord , but the office of Priestes . Lastly , that he was a Prophet , is manifest by that Num. 12. 6. Si quis fuerit inter vos Propheta Domini &c. Yf there shal be among you a Prophet of our Lord , in vision will I appeare to him , or in sleep will I speake vnto him . But my seruant Moyses is not such a one , who in all my house is most faithfull : for mouth to mouth I speake to him , and openly , and not by riddles and figures doth he see the Lord &c. 27. Now as for Iosue , he succeded not Moyses in all these offices . For he succeded him not in Bishoply degree , or high Priesthood : Nor yet in law-making . In Prophesy , whether he did or no , I dispute not . But that he succeeded him in temporall Principality , it is manifest out of Num. 27. 18. Dixitue Dominus ad Moysen , tolle Iosue filium Nun &c. And our Lord said to Moyses , take Iosue the sonne of Nun &c. And put thy hād vpō him : who shall stand before Eleazar the Priest , & al the multitude : & thou shalt giue him precepts in the sight of al , & part of thy glory that all the Synagogue of the Children of Israell may heare him . For him , if any thing be to be done , Eleazar the Priest shal consult the Lord. At his word shal he go out , & shal go in , and al the Children of Israel with him , and the rest of the multitude &c. In which words three things are to be noted which make to our purpose : the first , that Iosue , was designed the successour of Moyses : the second , that Moyses gaue him part of his glory , that is to say , he gaue him not all the power he had , aswell Ecclesiastical , as temporall , but temporall onely : the third , that he should be subiect to Eleazar the High Priest , and do euery thing at this commandement . For this do those wordes signify , Pro hoc &c. For him ( to wit Iosue ) if any thing be to be done , Eleazar the Priest shall consult the Lord. At his word ( to wit of Eleazar ) shall Iosue go out , and in &c. 28. Heere may you playnely see , in how different a sense you alleaged that place , Sicut in istis obediuimus Moysi , ita obediemus & tibi : As in these thinges we obeyed Moyses , so will we obey you . For you vnderstand it thus ; as who should say , the people of the Iewes ought to obey Iosue , in all thinges both Ecclesiasticall and ciuill , as they had obeyed Moyses . But you are deceyued . First , for that in Ecclesiastical affayres they were to obey Eleazar the Priest. Secondly , because those words ( as we haue obeyed Moyses ) were not vttered of all the people , but only of the Rubenites , Gaddites , and of halfe the Tribe of Manasses . Neyther did they say , that they would obey Iosue in all thinges simply , wherin they had before obeyed Moyses ( although somtymes they murmured against him , & did not obay him : ) but in those thinges only , which were appointed them by Moyses , to wit , that they should leaue their wiues , childrē , & cattle in the place where they then were , and arming themselues , togeather with the rest of the Tribes , should passe ouer Iordan , and fight against their enemies , vntil they being vanquished , the rest of the Tribes should there make their quiet possession . And this is euident out of the context of Scripture it selfe Iosue 1. 12. in these wordes : Rubenitis quoque & Gadditis , & dimidiae tribui Manasse ait &c. To the Rubenites also and Gaddites , and to halfe the tribe of Manasses , Iosue said : Remember the word which Moyses the seruant of our Lord commanded you , saying : Our Lord your God hath giuen you rest , and all this land , your wiues and children , and cattle shall tarry in the land , which Moyses deliuered vnto you beyond Iordan : but passe you ouer armed before your brethren , all that are strong of hand , & fight for them , vntill our Lord giue rest to your brethren , as to you also he hath giuen ; and they also possesse the land , which our Lord your God will giue them , and so returne into the land of your possession : and you shall dwell in it , which Moyses the seruant of our Lord gaue you beyond Iordan , against the rising of the sunne &c. Thus Iosue to the people . So as that which immediately followeth ( to wit , Omnia quae praecepisti nobis &c. All thinges that thou hast commanded vs , we will do , and whithersoeuer thou shalt send vs , we will go . And as we obeyed Moyses in all things , so will we obey thee also , ) is referred to that which went before . But there is no mention made of Ecclesiasticall matters , but only of taking armes against their enemyes , who possessed their land . 29. On this syde then , as you see , your Argument falleth to the ground , & proceedeth from a false principle . On the other side , that which you bring of Gentile and Idolatrous Kinges , I do not see what force it may haue . For that those three Kinges , which you mention , were by your owne confession eyther Primates of the Church of God , or they were not . I hope you will not say that they were , because yow affirme the contrary more then once in your Tortura : and that worthily : to wit , that they who be out of the Church of God , cannot be Princes and Rulers in the same Church . Yf they were not Primates of the Church , as certes they were not , how then will you proue by this their example , that the King of England is head or Primate of the Church ? This only you may conclude , that as the Iewes durst not go forth of Egypt , to sacrifice to God , without King Pharao his leaue , who had brought them into cruell bondage vnder his yoke : So in like manner the Catholickes , that liue in England , dare not go out to other Catholicke Countries , where they may receiue the holy Eucharist after the Catholick manner , without King Iames his leaue , who will not suffer them so to do , without his licence , vnder payne of death or imprisonmēt . And the like may be said of the other two Idolatrous Kings . But what is this to the Primacy of the Church ? I should rather thinke it belonged to tyrāny or impiety . The Conclusion to the Chaplayne . 30. YOvv haue heere briefly , what I haue thought concerning your Booke , which you haue written in defence of your King : You haue heere ( I say ) these three pointes : First , that you haue oftentimes handled the matter not so much in Argument , as in raylings or exprobrations . Secondly , that you haue defyled euery thing with Paradoxes , and false opinions . Thirdly , that you haue rather ouerthrowne then established the Kings Primacy , which you sought to fortify : and all these things haue you done through a certayne desire you haue to flatter the King. Therefore if you shall represse this your desire , and behould the onely truth of the thing it selfe , it will be very easy for you to amend your former faultes , which I altogeather counsell you to doe . And if you set God before your eyes ( who is the first and principall verity ) you will doe it . AN APPENDIX , Of the Comparison betweene a King and a Bishop . IN your booke you do so compare a King and a Bishop togeather , that you manifestly depresse the Authority of the one , and extoll the Dignity ( higher then is sitting ) of the other . And therefore what others haue thought before you concerning this point , I will briefly lay before your eyes , that you may choose whether , changing your opinion , you will stand to their iudgmentes , or els retayning it , still persist in your errour . Thus then haue others thought and taught before you . Num. 27. 21. Pro Iosue si quid agendum erit &c. Yf for Iosue any thing be to be done , let Eleazar the Priest consult with the Lord. At his word ( to wit Eleazars ) shall he goe out , and go in , and with him all the sonns of Israel , and the rest of the multitude &c. So as heere the secular Prince is commanded to do his affaires at the descretion of the Priest. Deuter. 17. 12. Qui superbierit &c. He that shall be proud , refusing to obay the commandement of the Priest , who at that time ministreth to our Lord thy God &c. that man shall dye , and thou shalt take away the euill out of Israel &c. 1. Reg. 22. 27. Ait Rex Saul Emissarijs &c. King Saul said to his Seruants that stood about him : Turne your selues , and kill the Priests of the Lord &c. And the Kings seruants would not extend their hands vpō the Priests of the Lord. So as , they made greater esteeme of the Priests authority , then of their Kings commandement . 4. Reg. 11. 9. Fecerunt Centuriones iuxta omnia &c. And the Centurions did according to all things , that Ioida the Priest had commaūded them : and euery one taking their men &c. came to Ioida the Priest &c. And he brought forth the Kings sonne , and put vpon him the diademe , and the couenant &c. And Ioida commanded the Centurions , and said to them : Bring forth Athalia ( the Queene ) without the precincts of the Temple , and whosoeuer shall follow her , let him be stroken with the sword &c. 2. Paralip . 19. 11. Amarias Sacerdos & Pontifex vester &c. Amarias the Priest and your Bishop shall be chiefe in those things , which pertayne to God. Moreouer Zabadias , the sonne of Ismael , who is the Prince of the house of Iuda , shal be ouer those works , which pertaine to the Kings office &c. 2. Paralip . 26. 16. Cùm rob oratus esset &c. When Ozias the King was strengthened , his hart was eleuated to his destruction &c. and entring into the temple of our Lord , he would burne incense vpon the altar of incense . And presently Azarias the Priest entring in after him , and with him the Priests of our Lord &c. they resisted the King and said : It is not thy office , Ozias , to burne incense to our Lord , but the Priests &c. Get thee out of the Sanctuary , contemne not , because this thing shall not be reputed vnto thee for the glory of our Lord God. And Ozias being angry &c. threatned the Priests . And forthwith there arose a leprosy in his forehead before the Priests &c. and in hast they thrust him out &c. Ioan. 21. 32. Feede my sheepe &c. Matth. 16. 19. To thee will I giue the Keyes of the Kingdome of heauen &c. Act. 20. 28. The holy Ghost hath placed Bishops ( not secular Kings ) to gouerne the Church of God &c. 1. Cor. 4. 1. So let a man esteeme vs , as the ministers of Christ , and the dispensers of the mysteries of God &c. 2. Cor. 5. 20. We are Legates for Christ &c. S. Gregory Nazianzen , writing to the Emperours of Constantinople apud Gratian. dist . 10. can . 7. saith : Libenter accipitis &c. You do willingly heare , that the law of Christ doth subiect you to Priestly power . For he hath giuen vs that power : yea , he hath giuen vs a Principality , much more perfect , then that of yours &c. S. Gregory the Pope writing to Hermannus Bishop of Metz dist . 96. can . 6. saith : Quis dubitat &c. Who doubteth , but that the Priests of Christ are to be accompted the Fathers , and maisters of Kinges , and princes ? Ioan. Papa , dist . 96. can . 11. Si Imperator Catholicus est &c. If the Emperour be a Catholike ; he is a Sonne , and not a Prelate of the Church . What belongeth to Religion , he ought to learne , and not to teach . And then againe afterwards : Imperatores &c. Christian Emperours ; and Kings , ought to submit their imployments vnto Ecclesiasticall Prelates , and not preferre them . Innocentius 3. in decret . de maior . & obed . can . 6. Non negamus &c. We deny not , but that the Emperour doth excell in temporall things : but the Pope excelleth in spirituall ; which are so much the more worthy , then temporall , by how much the soule is preferred before the body &c. Hosius Bishop of Corduba in Spaine , to the Emperour Constantius , sayth : Desine , quaeso , Imperator &c. Giue ouer , I beseech you , o Emperour : do not busy your selfe in Ecclesiasticall affaires , nor in such things do not teach vs , but rather learne of vs. To yow hath God committed the rule of the Kingdome , but vnto vs hath he deliuered the affaires of his Church &c. S. Ambrose in his 33. Epistle to his Sister Marcellina , writeth , that he had sayd to the Emperour Valentinian : Noli te grauare Imperator &c. Do not trouble your selfe , o Emperour , to thinke that you haue any Imperiall right in those thinges which are diuine . To the Emperour do pallaces belong ; but Churches pertaine vnto Priests &c. Valentinianus the Emperour said : Mihi qui vnus è numero laicorum &c. It is not lawfull for me , that am but one of the number of laymen , to interpose my self in such businesses , ( to wit Ecclesiasticall . ) Let Priests and Bishops meet , about these things , wheresoeuer it shall please them , to whome the care of such affaires belong &c. This is related by Zozomenus lib ▪ 6. hist. c. 7. and by Nicephorus lib. 11. cap. 33. by Ruffinus lib ▪ 1. cap. 2. Eleanor Queene of Englād in an Epistle she wrote to Pope Celestine , hath these wordes : Non Rex , non Imperator à iugo vestrae Iurisdictionis eximitur . Neyther King , nor Emperour is exempted from the yoke of your Iurisdiction , or power . More of this matter in another place . FINIS . Faultes escaped in the Printing . Pag. 7. lin . vlt. in some copies dele is 17. lin . 7. shall read shalt 19. lin . 21. to write read to wit 36. lin . 4. in some copies Mattheaeo read Matthaeo 38. lin . 8. to lawfull read to be lawfull 40. lin . 7. in some copies you read yours 57. lin . 15. in some copies the read he 58. lin . 1● . in some copies this read his LAVS DEO .