Discourse of the peerage & jurisdiction of the Lords spirituall in Parliament proving from the fundamental laws of the land, the testimony of the most renowned authors, and the practice of all ages : that have no right in claiming any jurisdiction in capital matters. Barlow, Thomas, 1607-1691. 1679 Approx. 141 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A30974 Wing B829 ESTC R4830 13201278 ocm 13201278 98451 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A30974) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 98451) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 445:24) Discourse of the peerage & jurisdiction of the Lords spirituall in Parliament proving from the fundamental laws of the land, the testimony of the most renowned authors, and the practice of all ages : that have no right in claiming any jurisdiction in capital matters. Barlow, Thomas, 1607-1691. [6], 28 p. [s.n.], London : 1679. Attributed to Thomas Barlow. Cf. BLC. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng England and Wales. -- Parliament. -- House of Lords -- Jurisdiction. Church of England -- Bishops -- Temporal power. Church and state -- England -- Early works to 1800. 2005-03 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-05 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-07 Simon Charles Sampled and proofread 2005-07 Simon Charles Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A DISCOURSE OF THE Peerage & Jurisdiction OF THE LORDS SPIRITUAL IN PARLIAMENT . Proving from the Fundamental Laws of the Land , the Testimony of the most Renowned Authors , and the Practice of all Ages . THAT They have no right in claiming any Jurisdiction IN Capital Matters . Give unto Caesar the things which are Caesars , and unto God the things which are Gods , Matth. 22. ver . 21. LONDON , Printed in the Year MDCLXXIX . TO THE READER . IN this licentious Age , and especially at this Juncture of Time , when every impertinent Scribler , and seditious Pamphleter , hath free access to the Press , it may be thought neither Prudent nor Honourable , for a Man of Sober and Serious Thoughts , to come into the Field and list himself among the Unlearned Multitude of Writers that are in these days . That Popular Applause which is generally expected from this Method , is a thing which I ( more ambitious of being publickly useful then publickly known ) never designed to purchase at that rate ; and therefore is not the Motive that induced me to this Undertaking . I would have been glad , if any other of greater Learning and Parts , had done the World so much Favour , as to have made a Perfect Disquisition into this Matter , and to have discussed the Point according to the Merits of the Cause ; for then I doubt not but the Reasonableness of the House of Commons Dissention from the House of Lords , would have appeared to all Impartial and Dis-interested Minds . As for my own part , I confess that partly through the Consciousness of my own Inability , and partly through my Unwillingness to be concerned in a Thing of this Weight , I should never have engaged my self in it , if I judged it not necessary to vindicate those Persons that are abused with several undecent and unjust Calumnies , in a late Book intituled . The Honours of the Lords Spiritual asserted , &c. together with its Preface . This , together with a Desire of Informing the World in a Thing which is much talked of , but little understood , prevailed with me to omit nothing which might be Serviceable to my Country , and Conducive to the Unity and Peace of this divided Kingdom ; especially when it is to be feared , there are too many such as the Author of the above-mentioned Book , who under the specious pretence of Loyalty and Affection to the Church , do what in them lies to make the Gap wider , and Distemper more Incurable . That I may not seem to injure him , you may consider the Design of his Discourse ; The Persons against whom he directs his Preface , are those who withstood the Pretensions of the Bishops to Jurisdiction in Matters of Blood : those are no other than that Honourable Assembly , those Champions of the Protestant Religion , and the Liberties of the People of England , the House of Commons in the last Parliament . To Revile the Representatives of the Commons of England , and in them Virtually the Persons themselves that are Represented , with such Scandalous Aspersions , and Opprobrious Reflections ; Being Favourers of the Rebellious Commotions in Scotland , Ill-natured , Censorious , Covetous , Self-seekers ; and which is worse than all this , as being of the same Principles with those that threw down Eplscopacy , took up Arms against their Native Soveraign , Plundred and Devested His Majesties most faithful Subjects of their Goods , Estates , and Lands , and embrewed their Violent , Wicked , and Rebellious Hands in his most Sacred Blood , &c. I say , such Scurrilcus and Satyrical Language thrown upon the very Face of Authority , doth ill-become the Religion of a Christian , and the Honesty of a true English-man . It is a known Maxime among Men of bonest and sober Principles , and Lovers of the English Nation , That Nothing can make us Happy or Miserable , but an Union or Division amongst our Selves : If there be a good Understanding betwixt Prince and People , nothing can make England miserable ; but if there be Jealousies and Divisions , nothing can make it Happy . Therefore , whoever they are , that by reciprocal Accusations , and raising of mutual Jealousies of the One's good Will and Affection , and the Others Loyalty , especially in things that are false in themselves ; deserve to be lookt upon as inveterate Enemies to the Peace and Happiness of this Kingdom : And yet you may observe , that whosoever can give the Court , the most Satyrical Language , expects to be reckoned the most Zealous Patriot , &c. And those , forsooth , who can with the greatest Scurrility , and the most reproachful Epithets , asperse the House of Commons , would be thought the most Loyal Subjects : But if Integrity and Religion it self be not quite banished from the Conversation of Mortals , both these sorts of People will fail of their Expectation . I have read of two great Favourites of Alexander the Great , Hephestion and Craterus ; one of them ( saith my Author . ) Alexandrum dilexit , but the other dilexit Regem : It may be a Question which of these was the better Subject , I shall not undertake to determine it , but shall leave it with an Observation of that Noble and truly Loyal Courtier Sir Thomas Coventry , Lord Keeper of the Great Seal to His late Majesty , in a Case of the like nature : Some ( said he to the House of Lords ) would have the Kings Prerogative rather Tall than Great , others e contra ; some do love the King , rather than Charles Stuart ; others e contra : ( but what his Sentiments were of those Matters , you must gather from what he said a little after ) None can be truly Loyal , but he that is a good Patriot ; and none can be a good Patriot , but he that is truly Loyal . The Interest of the King and People are so interwoven and linked together , that none can be truly said to be a Lover of One , but he must be a Lover of Both. But to return to our Author , I Protest I have perused the whole Volume with the greatest Impartiality that can be ; and except his Sawciness and Ill-nature against the House of Commons , and Gentlemen of the Long Robe , I find nothing in the whole Book that deserves any Animadversion : It is evident from his Method of Arguing , and the Medium's he maketh use of to prove his Assertion , that he is altogether a Stranger to the very State of the Controversie ; and that notwithstanding his Confidence in Asserting , his Book discovers more Ignorance , than his Preface doth Petulancy : And it is no wonder , for Ignorance and Impudence are generally Concomitant : And this is all that I think fit to say in Answer to him . The Reason why I subjoyn the following Discourse , is , because although I cannot perswade my self that he deserves a Refutation , yet that Truth which he labours to darken with an Impertinent Harangue , deserves to be cleared and demonstrated : If any shall go about to Attacque this Discourse with Drollery , or Satyrical Invectives , I decleare before-hand , I do not reckon my self obliged to Reply ; I do not think it a Reputation for Men of Sense to Combate at these Weapons ; But if Occasion be , I shall send his Answer to the Dung-Carts , or Oyster-Boats , from whence I doubt not , but he shall receive due Correction for his Folly and Impudence ; but if he Assault it with Reason and Sobriety , he shall find a Defence agreeable . I must confess I am heartily sorry at the Occasion of this Dispute , it hath unhappily fallen out at that Moment of Time , when above all things it was necessary for the Church and State to Confederate , and joyn Hand in Hand , to the Ruine and Confusion of the Common Enemy , and the Extirpation of that Poysonous Plant , whose growth will quickly become fatal to both : but however , as it is hard on the one side , that any should be compelled to lay down that which they suppose is their Right ; so on the other side , it is a thing unreasonable and of dangerous Consequence , to admit of any Innovation , though it were in a Matter of far less Moment than this is : so that there is great Reason for both sides to insist upon it . If this Enterprise of mine be so successful , as to convince those that are in the mistake , then I compass my End , and am Satisfied ; which that it may do , I refer you to the Consideration of the following Discourse . Farewell . A DISCOURSE OF THE Peerage and Jurisdiction of the Lords Spiritual . AS the granting of large Immunities , Priviledges , and Possessions to the Church , doth well become the Piety and Religion of a Christian Prince , or any other Supream Power ; And as the robbing of the Church of any of its Just Rights , lawfully granted , is Sacriledge of the Highest Nature : So it is the Duty of all the Sons of the Church , upon all Occasions , thankfully to acknowledge the Bounty and Munificence of their Pious Benefactors , and to forbear all unjust Claims and ambitious Pretensions to things which were never granted : A failure in this is almost as great an Immorality ( considering the Quality and Profession of the Offenders ) as the former . And it is doubtless not onely lawful , but commendable , for the persons whose Right and Property is invaded in either case , to defend themselves with all their power against the Invaders ; otherwise we must condemn our Ancestors , who defended the Kings Prerogative , and the Subjects Right , when it was encroached upon by Procurers of Citations and Process of Provisions and Reservations of Benefices , Dispensations for Pluralities , &c. from the Court of Rome ; and withstood those unreasonable Demands of Absolute Exemption from Secular Power made by the Clergy ; and several other things about Marriages , Legitimation , &c. which they claimed by vertue of several Decretals of their Popes and Councils : I confess if there were either Statute-Law or Common-Law for the Bishops Voting in Capital Cases , I would be very far from arguing against it , for that were to call in question their undoubted Right . But if there be any reason to make me believe they have no Right at all in that case , I hope it will be excusable in me to make an Impartial Enquiry into the Thing . If the Spiritual Lords have any right of Judicature in Capital Cases , it must be either Jure Divino , or Jure Humano ; if the former , it must be proved out of the New Testament , for there is no consequence from the Authority and Jurisdiction of the High Priest under the Law to the Authority of Bishops under the Gospel , and that is the most generally received Opinion among the Protestant Divines , those at least who have lifted themselves under the Banner of the Protèstant Religion , in its defence against the exorbitant power and usurpation of the Bishop of Rome , who makes use of the same Argument for the Authority of his Holiness in Cathedra : Because whatsoever is alledged out of the Old Testament , is either part of the Mosaical method of administring Justice , proper onely to the Judaical Oeconomy ; or else belonging to the Temporal Constitution of the Kingdom of Israel and Judah , which are no more binding to us , than those Laws of theirs whereby each man recovered his right and property : or than the Laws of the Syrians , or any other Nation were binding to the Jews . Those Instances that are given of so great trust reposed in , and Honours conferred upon , Spiritual persons by Christian Princes , after the first three Centuries , can prove no more , but that so was the Constitution of the Government of those Kingdoms ; and it doth not follow that therefore it must be so in all other Kingdoms : for which cause it is evident , that the first Four Chapters of the Gentlemans Book , are altogether impertinent . If the Spiritual Lords ground not their Claim upon Divine Right , then if they have any at all , it must be by Humane Institution : My business is not to examine whether such an Institution were good and reasonable , or not ? That I leave to the Consideration of the Parliament , in whose Determination every true Subject ought heartily to acquiess : but all that I have to do , is to examine whether or no there be such an Institution , and that is the point Which I intend to insist upon . No Humane institution can do their Lordships any kindness in this , except the Laws of England , and those are of two sorts , either Statute-Law , or Common-Law : The former is not pretended to ; the onely question is about the latter : for that same Law which gives them power to sit in the House of Lords in any case , gives them power also to sit in Capital Cases , if they have any such power ; and that they have no such power by the Common Law of England , is the Probindum . Those in whose power Originally it was at the first reduction of this Nation under Rules of Government to Invest Religious Persons with Honours , Jurisdictions and Priviledges ; might by the same power have made them greater or lesser than they did ; and consequently might at the first Institution have limited the same Jurisdiction , &c. to such and such matters as they themselves thought fit to intrust them with , and not to others . If those persons that first conferred upon some of our Clergy-men that Jurisdiction which they now enjoy of Voting in the High Court of Pariament , had given it indefinitely in all Matters , and over all Causes , and they had exercised their Jurisdiction accordingly from time to time , then their right had been indubitable ; but if this limitation had been made , that their Jurisdiction shall extend to all Causes , except such as are Capital , and they never exercised any Jurisdiction in such ; then there cannot be any colour or ground of Claim . Now the Common Law is a general Custom or Usage in this Realm in all Ages practised and allowed beyond the memory of man ; and because there is no Record , nor any other undeniable Evidence of its commencement , it is therefore presumed to have been a Law ever since there hath been any Government in this Nation : Seeing therefore that the Jurisdiction of the Bishops in Parliament , is supposed to be as ancient as the Government it self ; If it can be proved that by the Common Law ( i. e. ) the continued practice of all Ages , the Transactions whereof are Recorded , the Clergy never did exercise Jurisdiction in Cases of Blood : then inasmuch as no Record maketh appear what time this Custom did begin , we must of necessity presume that their not Voting in Capital Cases , is as ancient as their Voting in any Case ; and consequently that those who first conferred upon them their Jurisdiction in Parliament , gave it with this limitation , that it should not extend to Capital Cases . This being premised , I shall proceed to prove that by the Common Law of England , ( if not by an Act of Parliament ) the Lords Spiritual have no right to Vote in Capital Cases : That will be done if I demonstrate these two things ; 1. That their Voting in Capital Cases is contrary to the intent and meaning of Magna Charta . 2. That it is contrary to the known practice of all Ages until this day . The first I shall prove from the Reason and Nature of the thing , and from Precedents . By the 29th of Magna Charta it is ordained , that , Nullus liber homo capiatur vel imprisonetur , &c. aut ut . lagetur , aut exuletur , aut aliquo modo destruatur , nec super cum ibimus , nec super eum mittemus nisiper legale judicium parium suorum , &c. And accordingly the Precept of the Lord High Steward to a Serjeant at Arms , is to summon , Tot & tales Dominos Magnates , & proceres hujus Regni Angliae praedicti R. Comitis pares , &c. Co. 3. Inst. 28. Whence it is evident that every Judge must be a Peer ( par ) to the Prisoner ; and I do think it a very easie matter to prove that no Spiritual Lord as such , is Invested with that Parity which is requisite within the intent of Magha Charta , to constitute him a sufficient Judge upon the life and death of a Temporal Lord : Before I enter upon the proof of this , it will be necessary to say something of the Nature of their Peerage . Their Peerage doth accrue either by the Investitute of their Bishopricks , ipso facto , or by their Summons to Parliament ; it is agreed by all Authors of greatest Authority , that they are Parliamentary Lords immediately by their Investiture and Induction into the Temporalities , which are held of the King per Baroniam , and are therefore Lords of Parliament only ratione tenurae ; so is Coke , Stamford , Selden , and others : But they are not intituled to any more Honour or Jurisdiction by their Writs , for these , two Reasons : 1. Because a Summons to Parliament cannot of its self create a Baron , for then all the Kings Judges , Serieants and Councel had been ennobled in divers Parliaments in the time of Edw. 1. in all of Edw. 2. and most of Edw. 3. for they had then the self-same Writ that Earls and Barons had , yea and the Kings two Escheators had the same Writ , Annu 12. and 14 of Edw. 2. The first Summons extant upon Record is that of 49 H. 3. which is one joynt Summons to all the Lords and Judges , and is the same in substance with the Writ of Summons at this day , which is given to the Lords , and differs onely in matter of Form. Anno 23. Edw. 1. Jan. 23. The Writs are several , the only difference is in the Style , and the words following , ( viz. ) Super ar duis negotiis quibusdam nos & Regnum nostrum & vos caterosque de eodem Regno tangentibus , &c. To the Bishops and other Clergy . To the Temporal Lords after the style the Writ runs . Nos , &c. & vos caeterosq●● 〈◊〉 & magnates , &c. taugentibus , &c. To the Judges it was , Vos caterosque de consilio nostros , &c. tangentibus . But in all these , the Mandamus , which is the most essential part of the Writ , is the very same ; viz. Vobis Mandamis ut , &c. personaliter inter sitis super dictis negotiis cum Rege , & caeteris magnatibus & proceribus , &c. trataturi vestrumque consilium impensuri , &c. The same is the 27 of Ed. 1. and almost in all the time of Edw. 2. and from the 20th to the 49th year of Edw. 3. That which I infer from this is , that either a Writ of its self without the performance of other Ceremonies , as Investiture of Robes , &c. cannot make a man Noble ; or else the Judges in those Four Kings Reigns having the same Mandamus in their Writs which the Earls and Barons had verbatim , and the same in substance with the Mandamus to Peers at this day , were all ennobled . And further , There doth frequently occur in ancient Records and Writings a difference between Barones majores , and Barones minores ; the first are called sometimes Barons , and the other Barons Peers . That they both received their Writs and sate in Parliament , is undeniable : The Nobility of the first was without doubt inheritable , but so was not the last , but were called Barons Peers , because of the parity of their Reyenue . Thus saith the Modus tenendi Parliamentum , ( always allowed for Authentick before Mr. Prynne . ) summoneri & venire debent omnes & singuli Comites Barones & corum pares scilicet illi qui habent terras ad valentiam ●●…ius Comitatus integri , viz. Vig●…ti feoda , &c. vel ad valentiam unius Baroniae , &c. & nulli minores Laici summoneri debent , sed si eorum praesentia necessaria velutilis fuerit Rex solebit talibus brevia mitte●… . So that these Baronum pares , or Barones minores , because of the Parity of their Revenue , were called or omitted ad libitum , though the majores ought to be summoned de jure ; which proves a Writ of Summons to Parliament , doth not ennoble the Party , otherwise this Difference must fall to the ground . The Roll of 18 Ed. 3. N. 35. Is that the Cause of Summons was declared in the presence of the King and divers Lords there named , & autres Barones , & Bannerettes . Chevaliers de Comites , Citizens & Burgeiis , &c. So 46 of Ed. 3. N 7. the Roll is , Dukes , Earls , Barons and Bannerets : And in many of the Parliament Rolls of Ed. 3. it occurs by the Prelates , Earls , Barons , and other Grandees ; by which it is evident , that anciently there sate in the House of Lords sometimes some that were under the Degree of a Baron , and they could not be Lords by Inheritance , because a Barony is the lowest Degree of Inheritable Nobility ; but they could not be there present without their Writs ; It doth therefore follow , that a Writ , together with an Appearance in obedience to it , doth not Ennoble the Party . Note , That anciently the King by his Letters could have discharged any Banneret from serving in the Lower House ; because , if he pleased , he might upon occasions have summoned him to serve in the House of Lords ; and that is apparent from a Record in the 7th of Rich. 2. R. 42. dorso . Sir Tho. Camoys was chosen one of the Knights of the Shire for Surrey , and his Father and Grandfather had been summoned to several Parliaments before : the King discharged this Gentleman from serving in the House of Commons , because Ipse ( saith the Record ) & quam plures Antecessores sui Banneretri fuerint : Nos animadvertentes quod hujusmodi Banneretti ante haec tempora in Milites Comitatus eligi minime consueverunt , &c. If this Camoys had been reputed a Baron , the Country would never have chose him ; and if he had been really a Baron , the King would never have discharged him because he was a Banneret , but because he was a Baron . Another Reason for this may be gathered out of the Patent of John Beauchamp of Holt , the words of which are these : — Sciatis quod pro bonis & gratuitis servitiis , quae dilectus & fidelis Miles noster Johannes de Beauchamp , de Holt , seneschallus hospitii nostri , nobis impendit , ac loco per ipsum tempore corenationis nostrae hucusque impensis , & quempro Nobis tenere poterit in futurum in nostris consiliis & parliamentis , nec non , &c. ipsum Johannem in unum Parium & Baronum Regni nostri Angliae praesecimus , volentes quod idem Johannes & haeredes masculi de corpore suo exeuntes statum Baronis obtineant , ac Domini de Beauchamp & Barones de Kiderminster nuncupentur , in cujus , &c. T. Rege apud Wodestock , 10. Oct. It is probable that he was created Baron before he received this Patent , because the Patent wants the words of Creation ; Ipsum Johannem praefecimus : but it is not said , per praesentes praeficimus ; and therefore the Patent running in the preterperfect tense could have no other operation but only to Record a thing which was past : but he was not Created by Writ before the Patent , because it is dated Oct. 10. and he received no Writ till the Decem. following : Wherefore seeing that undoubtedly he was a Baron before he received either Patent or Writ ; for the Patent , which is Matter of Record , saith , Ipsum praefecimus ; it follows , that before this time a Baron hath been created without a Writ , which could be no otherwise then by the performance of a Ceremony , as Investiture of Robes , &c. and this Patent was only an entring of the Creation , being a transitory thing upon Record . 2. Admitting that Barons have been created by Writs , yet Prelates are not created Barons by their Writs , because there is a difference between a Writ sent to a person that hath no right ex debito justitiae to demand it ; and a Writ sent to one that was a Lord of Parliament before , and ought de jure to have been summoned . The former , together with the persons obedience , may perhaps make him a Baron : but the latter I conceive doth not make any addition to , or enlargement of , their precedent Honour , but only summons them to exercise their Jurisdiction , and put that power ▪ which they have in execution , and that is only reducere potentiam in actum , otherwise every Lord would be newly created at every Parliament ; every one to whom the Honour is entailed , would have a Fee-simple , for a Writ will make a man a Peer in Fee without the word ( Heirs ) and every Lord Bishop , L. Keeper , L. Treasurer , L. Privy Seal , would be as such Inheritable Peers , or at least for life , which are both false ; for after Regradation their Peerage is ended : Wherefore it being certain that all the Lords both Spiritual and Temporal ought to be summoned to every Parliament , the Summons must of necessity have respect to that Right which doth entitle them to demand them . The Inference which I draw from all this , is , That the Lords Spiritual having no Peerage upon the account of their Writs , cannot claim any at all , except it be Jure Episcopatus , ( that is ) ratione terrarum quas tenent per Baroniam . So that now I come to the next point ; viz. Whether such whose Peerage is ratione tenure , and dies either with the determination of his Estate in the Land , or the dissolution of the Tenure , be a competent Judge of one whose blood is ennobled in case of life and death , within the meaning and intent of Magna Charta , which enacts that every one shall be tryed per legale judicium parium suorum . The Negative I hope effectually to prove from these following Reasons : 1. Every ones Peerage ought to be measured and proportioned according to the limits and extent of that ratione cujus he is a Peer ; he that is a Peer , not only upon the account of his Possessions , but also upon the account of the quality and nobility of his Blood , hath a right of Judicature and Legislation both in those things that regulate Mens Estates and Properties , and also in those things that concern Life and Death ; buthe that hath no Peerage but what is praedial or feudal , and not personal a Peerage accruing by vertue of his Tenure and Possessions , and not the Nobility of his Blood , can have no Jurisdiction but such as is agreeable to the nature of his Peerage ; that is , such as shall extend to matters of Property and Possession , but not to matters of Blood ; for as to this he is no more a Peer ( i. e. Par ) to a Temporal Lord , than any private Gentleman , and therefore hath no more Jurisdiction ; for it is Parity that makes a man capable of Jurisdiction within the Statute : This is confirmed by the Authority of that Learned Antiquary , Mr. John Selden , in the first Edition , of his Titles of Honour , a Volume in Quorto , 347 , ( which I the rather cite , because it was Printed in King James his time , and therefore not liable to exception ) his words are these ; A Bishop shall not be tried by Peers in Capital Crimes , because these are personal , and his being a Baron , is Ratione Tenurae , and not of personal Nobility . So it is in Br. Abr. Tit. Enquest 99. Although in an Action for Land , &c. a Bishop shall have Knights in his Jury , as other Lords , yet when he is tryed for his life ( it 's said ) he shall not have Knights in his Jury : By Which Book it is evident , that a Bishop is a Peer not in respect of his Person , but of his Possessions . 2. The whole Statute of Magna Charta is a Grant or rather a Confirmation of the Priviledges and Liberties of the Subjects of England ; and it is to be supposed that the enjoyment of every of those Priviledges that are there granted , is a great advantage and happiness to the Subject : but wherein the advantage of a mans being tryed per Pares doth lie , is a Point worth the Consideration : I conceive it to be this , When those are to be Judges , who may be under the same Circumstances with the Prisoner , and when by their Judgment the Prisoner can lose nothing but what his Judges ; if they be under his Circumstances may lose also ; he may expect that they will not give Judgment but upon Mature Deliberation , and that the Consideration that it may be their own case will deter them from giving a rash judgment against a man that is innocent , or not apparently guilty : Whereas if a mans Life and Fortune , his Honour , the Inheritable Quality of his Blood , his Name and Reputation , and whatsoever may be comfortable in this World , were disposable at the will and pleasure of inferiour persons , who have not every of these themselves , and consequently know not the true value and worth of them , nor the importance of the matter that is judicially before them ; it may be presumed that they will not be so careful and concerned in the Cause ; and it is to be feared they will be too ready to give an inconsiderate and rash judgment . This I take to be the onely benefit of a mans being tryed by his Peers , which is very significantly expressed in the Statute De Proditoribus , 25 Ed. 3. cap. 2. in these words ; Et de ceo soit provablement attaint de●overt fait per gents de lour condition , &c. But to apply this to our present design , let us consider what a Temporal Lord loseth by an Attainder ; In the first place he loseth his Life , his Estate real and personal : If that were all , a Gentleman might be his Peer ; but there is something more , he forefeits his Nobility , which is irrecoverable , being quite extinguished ; the inheritable quality of his Blood is thereby corrupted , the House of Lords themselves suffer with him , for they lose a Member for ever : But a Bishop forfeits nothing but what he hath in his Natural Capacity , and if he be considered as such , he is no Peer ; if he be considered as a Bishop , i. e. As holding Lands of such a Value in the Right of his Bishoprick of the King , he is a Peer , but his Peerage is in no danger through his Attainder ; the succession ( which he is supposed to be as tender of as a Natural person is of his Posterity ) is not thereby tainted ; for his Peerage , together with all his Posterity and Land , Ratione cujus he is a Peer , go to the Successor without any restauration ; ( see Stamford 187. 6. ) and so the House of Lords lose never a Member : How then can Bishops , having no Nobility which they can lose , and consequently not being Gents de lour condition , be fit Judges upon the Life and Death of Noble men ? And upon what grounds can more Justice be expected from such than from honest substantial Freeholders ? If this do not please , let any of the most violent Maintainers of this pretended Temporally-spiritual Jurisdiction give a rational account , wherein the advantage of a mans being tryed by his Peers , doth consist ; and let him make appear that the Lords Temporal are any Sharers of this Priviledge when they are tryed by Bishops , and I am satisfied ; but till then ; he must give me leave to conclude , that this Jurisdiction which is pretended to , is an abuse of the Satute of Magna Charta , and therefore a violence offered to the Liberties of the Subjects of England . 3. The Bishops are not Peers in that sense the Question is above stated in , because they shall not themselves be tryed by Peers in Parliament : If their Parity be not sufficient to Entitle them to demand a Tryal by Temporal Lords , then they cannot be Peers , so as to be Judges upon the Tryal of Temporal Lords : but if they be really Peers to all intents and purposes , then we charge all our Ancestors with a gross Violation of the Subjects Priviledges granted by Magna Charta ; for every Bishop is Liber homo , a Subject of this Realm , and ought of Right to have the benefit of a Subjects Priviledge of being tryed by his Peers : But seeing by the constant practise in former Ages , even in those times when the Tyranny of ambitious Prelates , and the Insolence of Popish Usurpers , did swell to so great a height ; when the poor credulous affrightned Laity , were glad for fear of being delivered Prisoners In manus & custodiam Diaboli , and secluded from the Society and Conversation of Mankind , to truckle at the Feet of the domineering Clergy , and condescend to almost all their Demands , however unreasonable or unjust they were ; insomuch , that Innovations in favour of them were easily allowed , and new acquisitions of Honour and Power easily obtained . I say , if in those times the Honour of being Tryed by Peers hath been denied to them , it may well be inferred that they had no Right ; for if it were a thing which they had any colour of pretension to , is it reasonable to suppose that they quietly without reluctancy would resign it ? when we have Records and Histories full of their Clamours for breach of Magna Charta , of their Contentions with their Liege Lord and Sovereign in things that were against the known and established Laws of the Kingdom , tending to the diminution of the Kings Prerogative , the hindring of the Execution of Justice upon Malefactors , and the dispossessing and injurious Expulsion of the Subject from his just and hereditary Right , where they had no reason in the world for it , onely that they were inflamed with indignation , that the Native Courage and inbred Generosity of Mind that was in our Ancestors , not induring themselves to be trod upon , nor their Necks to be laid under a Yoke of Tyranny and Usurpation ; did obstruct the unsufferable growth of that Power and Dominion which their own Pride and Ambition , together with the example and success of their Brethren in other Countries , had spurr'd them on to . These things are well enough known to all people , whose Eyes are opened , and therefore I shall not insist upon them ; but shall prove that Bishops ought not to be tryed by Temporal Lords : and for that I have the Suffrage of all Learned men , My Lord Coke in the Third Institutes , Fol. 30. is express in the Point , Spiritual Lords shall not be tryed by Peers . Stamford in his Pleas of the Crown , Lib. 3. cap. 1. De Trial per les Peers , saith , That the Statute of Magna Charta , and 20 H. 6. cap. 9. Which gives Dutchesses , Countesses , and Baronnesses the same Priviledge that their Husbands have ; Nad este mise in 〈◊〉 dextender a un Evesque on Abbe coment que ils injoient le nosme des Seignior de Parlement , car ils nont cel nosme d' Evesque ou Abbe ratione Nobilitatis sed ratione 〈◊〉 ne ont lieu in Parlement in respect de lour Nobilitie , ejus in respect de lour possession , Sc. l'auncient Baronies annexes a lour Dignities & accordant a ceo il ●ad divers Presidents dont l'un fuit in temps le Roy H. 8. &c. Of the same Opinion , and for the same Reason is Selden , ubi supra ; We find the same agreed by Justice Dodderidge , pag. 59 , 112. and Elsynge in his ancient Method of holding Parliaments , pag. 41. And the Book which I above cited , Br. Tit. Enquest 99. 27 H. 8. in the Bishop of Rochester's Case , it is resolved , That when a Bishop is to be tryed for Treason , it is not necessary that he have Knights in his Jury , although he shall have that Priviledge in a Tryal for his Land ; which proves that his Peerage is more for the Priviledge of the Lands and Possessions of the Bishoprick , then the Person of the Bishop : as you may further see if you compare this Book with Plowd . 117. Br. Tit. Tryal 142. and Fitz. Cor. 115. And I dare affirm there is not any one Lawyer or Antiquary of Note that disagrees from this : But before I go from this , I shall strengthen these Authorities by Precedents . I shall begin with Adam de Orleton , or Tarleton Bishop of Hereford , who in the 17 of Ed. 2. was accused while he was sitting in Parliament , of Conspiring with Roger Mortimer Earl of March , and aiding him with Horse and Arms in open Rebellion ; whereupon he was ordered to the Barr of the House of Lords ; he made no Answer to those Crimes that were laid to his charge , only that he was Suffragan to the Archbishop of Canterbury , who was his direct Judge under the Pope , and without his leave and the consent of his Fellow-Bishops he would not answer : Now although the Statute of Articuli Cleri restraining the benefit of Clergy to Felony , was made but eight years before this , yet the rest of the Clergy in that disorderly time ( observe the Humility , Obedience , and Loyalty of our Spiritual Fathers in those days ) had the impudence in the presence of the King , to pull him violently from the Barr and deliver him to the Archbishop : The King was enraged at this Insolence , and gave special Order to apprehend him again , which was done , and was arraigned upon an Indictment at the Kings-Bench-Bar , and upon the Question , How he will be tryed ? He said , Quod ipse est Episcopus Herefordensis ad voluntatem Dei & Sammi Pontificis , & quod materia praedict Articulor ' sibi imposi●… adeo ardua est quod ipse non debet in Curia hac super praedictis Articul ' imposii respondere nec inde respondere potest absque offensu Divino & Sanctae Ecclesiae . Hereupon Day is given over , and after some Contiuances , the Record goes on thus ; Et praeceptum est Vic' Comit ' Hereford quod venire faciat coram Domino Rege , &c. tot & tales , &c. ad inquirendum prout mores est , &c. And a Common Jury is returned , which find him Guilty , and his Goods and Lands are seised into the Kings Hands , and after Conviction , he is delivered unto the Archbishop , to the end ( I suppose ) that he should be Degraded ; for in this Case being High Treason there could be no Purgation . See the Record of his Attainder , Hill. 17 E. 2. Coram Rege , Rot. 87. Dors ' Co● 3. Inst. 30. Fuller's Ch. Hist. fol. 107. Tho. Walsingham , fol. 199. It appears by the Record it self , and all the Histories of those times , what Artifices were used , and with what Industry every Stone was turned by the Clergy , to keep the Bishop from the Justice of the Nation ; and is it to be supposed , that they would wave their Jus Paritatis , if they had it ? We have a world of Complaints in Walsingham ; and other old Monks , against the whole Proceeding , but not one word of any Injury done to their Peerage . The next Precedent is in Trin. 30. E. 3. Rot. 11. John de Isle Brother to Thomas Hen Bishop of Ely , was Indicted in Huntington , that he with divers others , per assensum & procurationem Episcopi praedict 28 E. 3. Diae Lunae post Testum Sancti Jacobi , burnt the House of the Lady Wake , at 〈…〉 by Sommersham in Comitat. praedict , & quod praedict Tho. Episcopus sciens praedict combustionem per praedict servientes suos esse factam , dictos servientes apud Sommersham praedict postea receptavit , &c. And also it was found before the Justices and Coroners , that 29 E. 3. the said Bishop was guilty de assensu of the Murder of one William Holme , slain by Ralph Carelesse and Walter Ripton , called little Watt , upon Malice conceived against Holme , because he followed the Suit of the Lady Wake ; the Principals were attainted by Owtlawry , the Bishop was Arraigned , and upon question , how he would be tryed ? He answered , Quod ipse est membrum Domini Papae , & quod ipse ab ordinario suo viz. venerabili Patre Domino Simone Archiepiscopo Cant. Angliae Primat respondere non potest , & super haec Dominus Archiepiscopus praesons hic in Curia petit quod dictus Episcopus Eliensis , de feloniis praedictis sibi impositis hic coram Laico Judice non cogatur respondere ; & ut sciatur inde rei veritas per inquisitionem Patriae praecept ' est Vicecom &c. Ad quens diem , &c. Jurat ' trial , &c. dicunt super Sacramentum suum quod idem Episcopus est in nullo culpabilis ; sed dicunt quod idem Episcopus post feloniam factam ipsos servientes receptavit sciens ipsos feloniam fecisse , &c. Et super haec p●●…ict ' Archiepiscopus praese●s in Cur ' petit ipsum tanquam Membrum Ecclesiae sibi lib●●●●… , & ei liberatur custodiend ' prout decet . Here is a Bishop Indicted , Arraigned , Tryed by a Common Jury , and Convicted as accessory to several Felonies , as burning of a House , and killing a Man , both before and after the Felonies committed : And it is observable , the Jurors were tryed as appears by this Record , and that proves the Bishop had his Challenges to them at his Tryal : And is it not very strange that they should proceed at this Rate against a Peer of the Realm , over whom they had no Jurisdiction , and a Bishop too , at such a time when the Clergy were the onely men about Court ; as Simon Langham , Archbishop of Canterbury , Lord Chancellor ; William Wickham Archdeacon of Lincoln , Keeper of the Privy Seal ; David Willer Parson of Somersham , Master of the Rolls ; ten beneficed Priests , Masters of the Chancery ; William Mulse Dean of S. Martins le grand , Chief Chamberlain of the Exchequer , Receiver and Keeper of the Kings Treasure and Jewels ; William Aksby Archdeacon of Northampton , Chancellour of the Exchequer ; William Dighton Prebendary of S. Martins , Clerk of the Privy Seal ; Richard Chesterfield Prebend of S. Stephens , Treasurer of the Kings House ; Henry Snatch Parson of Oundell , Master of the Kings Wardrobe ; John Newnham Parson of Fenny-stanton , one of the Chamberlains of the Exchequer ; John Rowseby Parson of Harwich , Surveyor and Controller of the Kings Works ; Thomas Brittingham Parson of Asby , Treasurer to the King for the part of Guisnes , and the Marches of Calice ; John Troys a Priest , Treasurer of Ireland . These I have specified here , because when any Examples are put of Justice had against Ecclesiastical Malefactors , there are a sort of people who presently cry out , Their wings were clipt : They were under contempt and hated by the Laity , &c. But what Credit is to be given to them , may be gathered from what hath been said . Thomas Merkes Bishop of Carlisle , was in the 2 H. 4. Indicted of Conspiring with Holland Earl of Kent , and the Dukes of Exceter and Surrey , and the Duke of Aumerle , Montacute Earl of Salisbury , Spencer Earl of Glocester , and others , to kill the King : he was thereupon Arraigned before Thomas Earl of Warwick , and other Justices of Oyer and Terminer , in Middlesex , and Tryed by a Common Jury , and found Guilty ; afterward the Record was removed to the Kings Bench , and the Bishop put into the Marshalsea , and afterward he is brought to the Bar , and being asked , if he had any thing to shew why Judgment should not be given on him , he pleads his Pardon , and it is allowed : See the Record of his Attainder , Hill. 2. H. 4. Coram Rege , Rot. 6. Co. 2. Inst. 636. 3. Inst. 30. But to come somewhat nearer our times ; Fisher Bishop of Rochester is Indicted , Arraigned , and Tryed by a Common Jury , for speaking Treasonable Words against an Act of Parliament made the 26 of H. 8. making the King Head of the Church , and abolishing the Authority of the Pope of Rome ; and was Condemned at the Kings Bench , and Executed , Br. Tit. Tryal 142. Inquest 99. 27 H. 8. The last that I shall name , is that Holy and Renowned Martyr , Archbishop Cranmer , who was Tryed with Lady Jane Gray , and her Husband Lord Guilford , and two younger Sons of the Duke of Northumberland , Ambrose and Henry , at Guild-Hall , before the Lord Mayor and Judges , the Third Day of Nov. in the First Year of Queen Mary's Reign , 1553. Where they were all found Guilty , and Condemed of High Treason . None of these were Executed upon this Judgment , except Lady Jane Gray and her Husband , who upon a Second Miscarriage of her Father the Duke of Suffolk , in joyning with Sir Thomas Wyat to oppose King Philip's Landing , were Executed in the Tower the 12th of Febr. following : On the 20th of April following , Cranmer , Ridley , and Latimer , were adjudged Hereticks at Oxford , and Degraded by Commission from the Pope , and a little after Cardinal Poole succeded Cranmer , who was burnt as a Heretick 14th of Febr. 1556. All this is known to those that are acquainted with the Transactions of those times ; and therefore it is evident both from the Authority of Learned Men , and the Practice of all Ages in all times , that Bishops have been Tryed by Common Juries : And sure it was not without ground that so Grave and Judicious an Author as Camden , should say , That the Spiritual Lords enjoy all the Priviledges that Temporal Lords do , saving only the business of Tryal by Peers . Having thus proved what I before asserted concerning the Tryal of Lords Spiritual ; I shall in the next place consider the Answers that are generally made to these Arguments and Authorities . Those I observe to be principally two : 1. They will very well agree with those Authors that say ; Bishops are not to be Tryed by Peers ; but then ( say they ) it was not for want of Peerage , but because they would not be put to answer for any Capital Crime before Lay-Judges . 2. They say , that if it happened that at any time a Bishop was Tryed by Lay-men and by Common Juries , then they were first Degraded . If there were no more to be said for this , the very reading of the fore-mentioned Precedents would easily make appear the weakness of these Objections ; for it appears by the very Records , that their Priviledge of Clergy was insisted upon , and that with a great deal of Zeal and Fervency ; insomuch that the Passage of the Bishop of Hereford , is a thing taken notice of in a special manner by all the most Famous Historians of this Nation ; and it is generally agreed , that about Fourteen Bishops came with their Crosses erected to the place of Judgment , threatning all people with Excommunication that offered to oppose them in that which they intended ; and yet we find that he was not delivered till after he was found Guilty : And it 's manifest from all the other Precedents , that they were found Guilty , and most of them Condemned to die upon the Verdict of Twelve Lay-men . But as to the business ▪ of Deprivation , you may observe , that throughout the whole Records they are named Bishops , as Episcopus Herefordensis , Eliensis and Roffensis , which could not be if they were Degraded ; for then these Titles were not rightful additions in Law. And although it being evident that so it was de facto , is a sufficient Answer to the Objections ; yet for more abundant satisfaction , I shall be somewhat more large in this , and shall shew that so it ought to be de jure . In handling this Point , I shall consider these following Particulars : 1. To whom this Privilegium Clericale , or Exemption from Temporal Jurisdiction , ought to have been allowed ? 2. I shall consider somewhat of the Nature of this Exemption and Immunity , and how far they were exempted from Secular Power . 3. I shall examine in what Cases it was allowed , and in what , not . 4. At what time . 5. Upon what account it was that Clergy-men were delivered to their Ordinaries in those Cases where the benefit of Clergy was not allowed . And lastly , I shall shew at what time regularly they were Degraded . I. As for the first , It was generally allowed to all within Holy Orders , whether Secular , or Regular , and in an equal Degree to all such , not respecting Superiority , or Inferiority : The poor Country-Parson had as good and as large a Right to it , as my Lord Bishop . This is proved , first , From the Canons that gave this Immunity ; the first ( I think ) were made by Pope Gaius , and those run ; Clericus coram Judice Seculari Judicari non debet nec aliquid contra ipsum fieri , per quod ad periculum mortis vel ad mutilationem membrorum valeat perveniri , &c. See Linwood Tit. de foro compet . c. contingit . Polichro . lib. 4. c. 24. of Pope Gaius , and Onuphrius in his Comment upon Platina , in the life of that Pope . Therefore seeing he cannot take any advantage of these Canons , except as Clericus , and must claim it by the same Name that inferiour Priests do , he must have it in the same Degree . But that which is a great deal stronger than the Construction of Canons , is the Confirmation that is made by our Acts of Parliament ; this Priviledge is granted to all that are Clerici , or Clerks in French , and Clergy-men in English ; and to all such indefinitely without distinction , or respect of the several Ranks and Degrees of men within Holy Orders : So you will find it in Marlebridge c. 28. West . 1. c. 2. Art. Cler. c. 15. 25 E. 3. c. 4 , & 5. 4 H. 4. c. 3. and the rest . So that without all question , a Bishop can pretend to no more Priviledge than any other Clerk causa qua supra . This I thought fit to observe first , because that every Authority and Precedent that I shall bring of an inferiour Priest , is as strong for my purpose , as if it were of a Bishop . II. As for the second Point , I shall not need to be very large upon it , but shall observe one thing which will be serviceable to my present purpose , and that is this : That every Temporal Magistrate and Judge of this Kingdom , hath , and in all times ever had , by the Common Law , Jurisdiction over every Subject in the same Degree of Nobility that was resident within the Verge and local extent of his Jurisdiction : This Power and Authority of his being Universal , he was never bound to take notice of the Priviledges and Immunities of any particular Orders and Societies of Men , if they themselves would not take advantage of it ; so that this same Previlegium Clericale was no absolute exemption from Secular Authority , so as to make all Proceedings before a Secular Judge , to be Coram non Judice : but the end and design of it was , that when any Clergy-man was Arraigned as a Malefactor before a Secular Judge , then in some Cases , before he suffered the punishment that was due by Law , he was delivered to his Ordinary to make his Purgation ; if he could , then his Ordinary discharged him ; but if he could not , then he was Degraded and sent back to the Temporal Magistrate to suffer punishment according to his Demerits . That the Proceedings of a Secular Judge upon one within Holy Orders , are not Coram non Judice , might be proved both out of Civilians and Canonists ; but that would not be much to the purpose if I should , and therefore I shall forbear ; only shall take notice of a Passage in Dr. Ridley's View of the Civil and Ecclesiastical Law , pag. 86. If a Clerk ( says he ) be first Arrested by his Spiritual Judge , and found guilty , he shall be Degraded and delivered over to the Temporal power ; but if he be first Arrested by the Secular Magistrate , and Tryed , and found Guilty , he shall be delivered to the Bishop to be deprived , and then delivered back to punishment . The same in effect he saith p. 158. whereby he doth allow , that according to the Ecclesiastical Law , the Temporal Judges were allowed to have Jurisdiction over men within Holy Orders : But let him or any of the Civilians or Canonists say what they will , it 's no great matter ; we must consider what the Law of England saith in this case : for the Canons never were in force in England any further than they were voluntarily received , and so transmitted as a common Usage or Custom to Posterity by Tradition , and so became part of the Common Law ; or else were confirmed by Act of Parliament , and so became part of our Statute-Law , of which more hereafter . And that by the Law of England the Proceedings against Ecclesiastical Persons before a Secular Judge , are not coram non Judice , I prove by these Cases : An Appeal of Robbery was brought against a Monk , who was tryed and acquitted ; upon this the Abbot and the Monk brought a Writ of Conspiracy against divers who procured and abetted the said Appeal : whereupon the Defendants appear , and go to Tryal ; but the Abbot and Monk get a Verdict and Judgment to recover 1000 Marks damages , Co. 2. Inst. 638. But it is certain , that a Writ of Conspiracy cannot lye except the Plaintiff had been Legitimo modo acquietatus , and that he could not be , if the whole Proceedings upon the Appeal had been Coram non Judice . So if at the Common Law a Clergy-man had been Indicted of Felony , and had confessed the Fact in Court , he could not have had the benefit of his Clergy , because the end of granting it , was , that he might make his Purgation before the Spiritual Judge , but that he could not after he had confessed the Fact in Court. Co. ubi supra , Stamford 124. And yet no Confession coram non Judice is conclusive . All which doth evidently prove , That the allowance of those Canons which gave the first birth to this Immunity , did not trench to the prejudice of Temporal Judges , so as to bar them of that Jurisdiction which they have over every Subject by the Common Law : And the Nature of it will further appear , if we take into consideration the Third Particular , which is this : III. In what Cases the benefit of Clergy was allowable , and in what not ; This Immunity was allowed in England long before any Statute was made for its confirmation ; it was allowed onely in such cases as were judged reasonable , but never in full satisfaction to the demands of the Clergy : Kellaway . 7 H. 8. 181. b. But the Clergy ( as their Custom then was ) were willing to improve any Concession to their best advantage , according to the common Proverb , When they had got an Inch , they would take an Ell. And to that end did with a great deal of fervency and zeal ( no doubt ) insist upon their Priviledge as an absolute Exemption from all Temporal Jurisdiction , to all intents and purposes , extending to all Crimes and Offences whatsoever , and thundring out Excommunications , and such like Maledictions , forced some people for quietness sake to comply with them , ( as appears by Bracton , lib. fol. 123. ) to the great incouragement of all sorts of Villanies and Outrages , and consequently to the grievous oppression and vexation of the Subject : for this assurance , or at least hopes of Impunity , let loose the Reigns of Rapine and Violence , and was the most effectual course that could be taken for the dissolution of any Government , and the utter desolation and ruine of any Country whatsoever . To give a check to this exorbitant Licentiousness , strict care is taken by the Judges and Magistrates , that Justice be duly executed , and Offenders legally punished ; and therefore the Privilegium Clericale not to be allowed in any Case otherwise then according to the ancient Custom : Hence were the seeds of Envy and of a very lasting Discord between Church and State sown ; nothing but Animosities , Rancour , Revenge and Hatred , is the Subject of the History of those times , especially the time of Thomas Beckett : Bulls , Citations , Excommunications , on the one side , and seising of Temporalities , Imprisonment and Banishment , on the other side , were the Complements that people were entertained with in those days : These Differences grew to such a height , that although through a formal Reconciliation , both Parties seemed to be pacified ; yet the Root of the Matter remaining untouched , the Fewds break forth , and the Matter must be decided by Act of Parliament : And so I shall by the construction of these old Statutes , and other Precedents , give a direct Answer to the Question . 1. It is undeniable , that Privilegium Clericale was never allowed to any that were Guilty of Crimen laesae Majestatis : The first Statute that we find among the Printed Statutes , which doth directly speak of it , is Westm. 1. c. 2. which is declarative of the Common Law by the express words of the Statute , Solonque le Custom avant ces heures use , but faith not one word of Treason , only allows the Priviledge in Cases of Felony , Si Clearke soit prise pur rette de Felony . Wherefore this Statute being in the Affirmative , determines nothing concerning Treason , but leaves that as it was before at the Common Law. Not long after the Clergy renewed their Complaints , and among the rest , complain that Secular Judges have passed Judgment of Death upon men within Holy Orders , and claim their Priviledge absolutely and generally in Articles several , which they presented to the King in Parliament . To this they receive Answer by the Statute commonly called Articuli Cleri , in these words : Clericus ad Ecclesiam confugiens pro Felonia pro Immunitate Ecclesiastica obtinenda , &c. gaudebit Libertate Ecclesiastica , juxta laudabilem consuetudinem Regni hactenus usitatam . This being an Answer much like the former , did not sufficiently answer their Desires , expressing only Felony ; nor on the other side did it hinder the Temporal Judges from proceeding against them , as against Lay-men in Cases of High Treason , as they had done always before : Wherefore they do afterwards , viz. in the 25th of E. 3. make a grievous Complaint , that the Kings Judges had given Judgment of High Treason against Houby and Cibthorp , Priests , and several other Religious Persons , whereby they were Hanged , Drawn and Quartered , to the great Dishononr of the Church , &c. To this they have a direct Answer by the Statutes of 25 E. 3. c. 4 , & 5. Whereby ( reciting their Complaint ) it is Enacted and Declared , that all Clergy-men Convicted for Treason or Felony against any other Person than the Kings Majesty , shall enjoy the Liberties of the Holy Church , &c. and from henceforward ( but never before ) the benefit of Clergy was allowed in Petit Treason , till by 23 , & 25 , & 32 H. 8. it was taken away ; but High Treason is excepted out of that Statute of E. 3. and therefore was ever since punished without the allowance of Clergy as it was before : And accordingly the Abbot of Missenden was Condemned to be Hanged , Drawn and Quartered , Pro contra factione & resectione legalis monetae Angliae , Mich. coram Rege 31 E. 3. Rot. 55. And it is taken for a General Rule , Trin. 21 E. 3. coram Rege , Rot. 173. Quod privilegium Clericale non competit seditioso equitanti cum Armis , &c. Thus I have shewn that in the Cases of Orleton , Merkes , Fisher , and Cranmer , the benefit of Clergy could not be allowed by the Law of England , they being Cases of High Treason . But in Cases of Felony , the benefit of Clergy was always allowed , till it was taken away in Cases of Murder ex malitia praecegitata , Poysoning , Burglary , Robbery , &c. by the 1 & 6 Edw. 6. cap. 12. & cap. 10. This is sufficient for this Point . IV. The Fourth Question , At what time the benefit of Clergy ought to be pleaded or demanded ? comes to be examined . I conceive , that the common practice both before and after the Statute of Westm. 1. was to deliver them to the Ordinary after Conviction , and therefore they would not suffer them to demand it before : My Reason is , because the Statute of Westm. saith thus ; Si Clearke soit prise pur rette de felony , & si il soit per l' Ordinarie demand , il luy soit livere solonque la priviledge de Saint Eccl ' &c. solonque le custom avant ses lieures use . This Statute grants no new Priviledge , but confirms only that which they had before : And as for the time of allowing the Priviledge , the words of the Statute are so ambiguous , that it is very hard to determine the Question from thence ; only the Statute refers it to the Custom of the former Ages : for the Priviledge of the Holy Church is to be allowed solonque le custom , &c. Now all the Judges of England did after this Statute determine , that they would not deliver any Prisoner to the Ordinary till he was first Indicted , and also thereupon Arraigned , and till it was Inquired by an Inquest upon his Arraignment , whether he were Guilty or not Guilty ; if not Guilty , then he was discharged without any more ado ; but if Guilty , his Goods and Chattels , Lands and Tenements were forfeited , and his Body delivered to the Ordinary : So saith Britton , cap. 4. f. 11. Si Clearke encoupe de felony allegga Clergie , & soit per l' Ordinarie demand , donque serra enquise comment il est miscrue ( i. culpable ) & sil est trovenient miscrue donque il aleraquite . Et sil soit & trove miscrue , ses Chateux serroient taxes , & ses terres prises in maine le Roy , & sen corps deliver al Ordinarie . The same you will find in the Mirr . c. 3. Co. 2. Inst. 164. in his Exposition upon that Statute ; and Stamford 131. And this we must suppose to have been the practice before the Statute ; because the Statute appoints the ancient Custom to be observed , and there were none that knew the ancient Custom so well as the Judges of those times ; and therefore this determination of the Judges was either according to the Custom avant ses heures use ( as the Statute speaks ) or else it was not according to Law : but that is absurd , especially seeing it was not only one resolution , but the constant practice ever since ; for in the Record of all Indictments of Clergy-men , if they refused to answer , but pleaded their Privilegium Clericale , and were demanded by their Ordinary ; the Record is entred — Sed ut sciatur qualis ei liberari deberat , ( i. whether Guilty or not Guilty ) inquiratur inde rei veritas per patriam . And in the Year-Books we have multitudes of Cases that do prove it , as you may see in the Margent ; the same is proved by the fore-mentioned Record of the Bishop of Ely , 30 E. 3. And there is a like Case , 40 E. 3. Fitz. Tit. Cor. 91. And the Statute of 25 E. 3. c. 4. saith expresly , That all Clergy-men Convict of Treason and Felony , &c. Which intimates that Clergy was not to be allowed till after Conviction . And so I have answered what ever they can object against the above-cited Authorities and Precedents from the benefit of Clergy ; and therefore shall now briefly consider the two last Particulars . V. In the fifth place I am to consider , Upon what account it was that Clergy-men were delivered to their Ordinaries , in those Cases where the benefit of Clergy was not allowed : The delivering of a Clerk Convict to his Ordinary , could be only for these ends , either that he might make his Purgation before his Spiritual Judge , or that the Ordinary might Degrade him , and then deliver him over to the Secular Power , to be punished according to Law as a Lay-man , lest Scandal and Indignity should be put upon the Church : The former is onely in Cases where Clergy is allowed ; for where there is no Clergy , there can be no Purgation : The latter is , where no Clergy can be allowed : The former is de Jure , and cannot be denied . I do not mean Jure Canonico , but is a Custom which hath been allowed time out of mind , and confirmed by several Acts of Parliament ; and for that reason only , I say , it is de Jure . The latter is , de Gratia , and Arbitrary ; for our Judges have had such an Honour and Esteem for the Dignity of a Priest , that they usually did deliver them to the Bishop to be Degraded , before the Sentence of Law was executed upon them . So it is in all Cases of High Treason , for there being no room for Purgation , the Judges are not at all obliged to deliver him , but out of favour they were wont to do it , to the end he might be Degraded ; and if that Custom were still observed , there were no great harm in it : yet in Trin. 24. H. 8. in Spilmans Reports we have a Case of one George Nobles a Priest , who was Convicted at the Gaol delivery of Newgate , of Clipping the Kings Coin ; and by the Resolution of all the Judges , they passed Sentence of Death upon him before any Degradation , and he was accordingly Executed in his Canonical Vestments . In a Record upon the Parliament , Roll 21 E. 1. Rot. 9. it is to be found , that one Walter , de Berton was Convicted of Counterfeiting the great Seal ; but the Record saith , Qui convictus tradatur Episcopo Sarum qui eum petiit ut Clericum suum sed sub pena , &c. & sub forma qua decet quia videtur Concilio quod in tali casu non admittenda est purgatio . Here it appears a person Convicted was delivered to his Ordinary in case where there could be no Purgation ; and so no benefit of Clergy ; and therefore it is evident that it was to the end he should be Degraded , and upon that the Delivery is with a Subpoena , which can be understood no otherwise but that he should re-deliver him . VI. As to the last point , at what time they ought to be Degraded , may be determined partly from what hath been said already ; for the end of Degradation , is only to prevent that Scandal and Irreverence which would otherwise be thrown upon that honourable Profession , which all sober and true Christians are very tender of : And certainly there cannot regularly be any Deprivation or Degradation before Conviction ; for no Clerk can be Deprived or Degraded of any Benefice or Dignity , except upon full Evidence he be found such and such a person as is uncapable of enjoying it . And as a Bishop cannot refuse a Clerk presented , except there be special cause for it , as criminosus , &c. so neither can he deprive one that is already Inducted without special cause ; and in any Court of Record the Cause must be specially pleaded , because it is Traversable , Co. lib. 5. 2. part . fol. 58. Specots Case . Suppose then that any Ecclesiastical Person is Arrested for Treason , the Ordinary cannot deprive him , except he first pass Sentence upon him , that he is criminosus ; but he cannot pass Sentence of Deprivation upon him , while he is under the Custody of the Temporal Magistrate , and before he is delivered to him ; for it is the greatest piece of Injustice in the World , to Condemn a man before he be heard : indeed our Law allows that in case of Outlawry , but that is when he may appear , and yet after Five solemn Proclamations , will not ; but it is against the Law of Reason , and the Laws of all Nations , to Condemn a man that is absent , when at the same time they know he cannot appear ; and therefore no Clerk can be deprived till he be delivered by the Temporal Judge : and I have already proved that there can be no Delivery till after Conviction ; so that it doth necessarily follow , that there can be no Deprivation till after Conviction ; and for further confirmation , see Ridley , ubi supra , Bracton . lib. 3. fol. 123. Clericus , Ordinario traditus si in purgatione defecerit , degradari debet ; Fle●● lib. 6. c. 36. Degradare potest Episcopus criminum convictos . Whereby it appears , first , That before Degradation , they must be allowed the benefit of making their Purgation , if they can , and that they have not except they be present when they are Condemned . 2ly , That they must be Traditi or Convicti before Deprivation . The Case of a Bishop seems parallel to the Case of any other Clerk ; for the King is Patron of all the Archbishopricks and Bishopricks of England , they being all of his and his Progenitors Foundation : They must either therefore be Donative or Eligible ; before King John's time they were Donative ; per traditionem Annuli & Pastoralis baculi : But he by his Charter 15. Jan. Anno Regni 17. granted that they should be Eligible , and therefore were made to be in the nature of Advowsons presentable : when therefore the King did nominate or present such a person to the Bishoprick , that person could not be refused without some special cause of refusal ; but if it did appear that he was either Infamous , Irreligious , Schismatick , Heretick , Miscreant , Infidel , mere laicus , &c. I conceive he might well be refused ; or else to what purpose issued forth the Conge d'eslier ? What signified King John's making them Eligible ? And therefore there being the same Reason and Law of Degradation or Deprivation after actual Investiture , that there is of refusal before : I infer there can be no Deprivation of a Bishop without Cause , and that Cause cannot be adjudged to be in him before he be heard , and have the Justice to defend himself as well as he can , allowed him ; and consequently no Deprivation till after delivery out of the hands of the Secular Power , which is in no case till after Conviction . These Particulars explained and proved , will satisfie all those whose Sentiments are regulated according to the Standard of Reason , that there is no strength in any of those Objections which some ignorant people do so much insist upon . Having thus by the Rules of Law , the Authority of the most Renowned Authors , and Variety of Precedents , proved , That a Bishop is no Peer , in respect to a Temporal Lord , within the intent and meaning of the 29th of Magna Charta : It doth naturally follow , that he hath no Right to claim any Jurisdiction or Right of Judicature upon the Life and Death of a Temporal Lord ; for otherwise he might suffer Death or Banishment , or Imprisonment , by the Judgment of those who are not his Peers , contrary to the Fundamental Laws of England , and the Liberties of every Subject . And thus I conclude the first Point . The second Point that I offered to demonstrate , is , That the Bishops Votings in Capital Cases , is contrary to the practice of all Ages untill this day . In the first place , Let us examine how it was before the Reign of Henry the Second : It must not be expected that this should be proved from the Records and Journals upon the Parliament Rolls , for their Antiquity will not reach so high as to do any considerable Service in this matter ; but I shall give the same proof for this , that any man can give for Tryals by Juries before Magna Charta ; that is , an Act of Parliament making Recognition of several ancient Customs practised beyond the Memory of those that then lived ; and that I hope will be sufficient Evidence : The Statute that I mean , was made at that Great Parliament which was held at Clarendon , the 10 , & 11 of H. 2. Anno Dom. 1164. In the Preamble it is , Recognizantur Advice consuetudines , which proves it is declarative of the Common Law. The Eleventh Article runs in this manner , Archiepiscopi , Episcopi , & universa persona ( holding any Ecclesiastical Dignity ) qui de Rege tenent in Capite , habeant possessiones suas de Rege sicut Baroniam , & inde respondeant Justiciariis & Ministris Regis , & sequantur & faciant omnes consuetudines Regias , & sicut caeteri Barones debeant interesse judiciis curiae Regis cum Baronibus quousque perveniatur ad diminutionem membrorum vel ad mortem . Here is their Jurisdiction expresly limited , that it shall not extend ad diminutionem membrorum vel ad mortem . And this Act of Parliament is declarative of the Common Law , as appears by the Preamble , and the construction of most Authors that mention it . In this ( saith Doderidge ) certain Recapitulations are made of the Kings Prerogative and his Peoples Right , then sought to be infringed by the Pope and his Clergy . So saith my Lord Cook , 2. Inst. 631. and Selden , Titles of Honour , 582. Seeing therefore there can be no time assigned when this ancient Custom which is here recapitulated , was not , consequently this limitation must be supposed ▪ to be as ancient as their sitting in the House of Lords : But to prove that this Constitution of Clarendon ( as some call it ) is an Act of Parliament ; Matthew Paris saith , Praesentibus etiam Archiepiscopis , Episcopis , Abbatibus , Prioribus , Comitibus , Baronibus & Proceribus Regni . Roger of Hoveden saith expresly , that Clerus & Populus Regni were then assembled , and so mentions it as a full Parliament . Goldastus Constit . Imper. Tom. 3. 347. saith , There were added to the Clergy , Nobiliores & Antiquiores Regni . Fitz Stephens calls it , Generale Concilium . And lastly , our Common Lawyers do take it for granted and undisputable . My Lord Cook in 2. Inst. 631 , and 638. calls it , The great Parliament that was held at Clarendon : So Bracton , lib. 3. f. 136. And this very Article above-mentioned is in all the said Authors ; and likewise in Roger of Wendover : but that which is most considerable , is , that we have Gervasius Doroberniensis , an Author that lived in that Age , and a Person within Holy Orders too , reckoning this very Article among the Laws that were made at that Parliament , in the 68. Page of his Book . But admitting it were no Parliament , but only a great Councel of Peers ; yet that is as well for my purpose , because that the Proceedings of such a Council are Matters of Record , and therefore a Recognition or Declaration of ancient Customs , and of the Common Law made in such a Council , is as undeniable proof , as if it were a Declaratory Act of Parliament ; for the force of such an Act is only in point of Evidence , and doth not Enact or Constitute any new Law. But as there is no question but that it is an Act of Parliament , the Assembly being a Generale , or Commune Concilium , which is always understood of the Parliament , Co. Inst. 110. a. So except it can be proved this Statute was repealed , I have made good my Assertion , without saying any more ; for admitting that it had not been so frequently practised , as I in his proper place shall make appear it was ; yet still it is valid and a standing Law : for no Statute loseth its force by Non-user , Co. 1. Inst. 114. although Common Law , or particular Customs , may . But this Statute we find was afterward confirmed : for saith Roger de Hoveden a Monk , p. 30. It was Ordained in a Councel at Westm. That no Clergy-man should Agitare Judicium , &c. and he that did , was to be deprived of his Dignity and Orders . That these Constitutions were punctually observed in after Ages , is the next thing to be proved : And the first that I shall mention , is the Judgment against the Spencers , 15 E. 2. The Lords Spiritual did withdraw , as in right they ought . These Spencers were men that were great Favourites of that King ; for they had succeeded Peter Gaveston both in the Kings Favour , and in Places of Profit and Trust about Court : and although the Lords had then prevailed with the King to consent to an Act of Parliament for their Banishment , yet afterward the Tide turned , the Spencers were called again to Court , and their Enemies severally prosecuted ; whereupon the greatest part of them departed from Court , and through the Interests which the Spencers had with the remaining Lords , the Judgment which stood upon Record against them was reversed for several Errors ; one of which was , The absence of the Prelates : but notwithstanding this , the Judgment is afterward Affirmed by an Act of Parliament , in the first year of the succeeding King : Vide 1 E. 3. c. 1 , & 2. And that the Absence of the Prelates is no cause of Reversing a Judgment , see the Case of the Earl of Salisbury ; who in the 2 of H. 5. petitioned the House of Lords to Reverse a Judgment that was given against the Earl his Father , An. 2. H. 4. and Assigns for Error , That the Lords Spiritual were absent : The Case was very much Debated , and at last it was adjudged no Error ; and accordingly the Judgment was Affirmed . But of this I shall have occasion to treat more at large by and by : See Cotton , 539. Anno 4 E. 3. In the Parliament at Winchester , Die Lunepost Festum Sancti Gregorii , The Earl of Kent was brought before the Counts , Barons & autres Grandees & Nobles , in mesme le Parliament , &c. for Treason , ders . claus . n. 38. Anno eodem , in the Parliament at Westm. post Festum Sanctae Katherinae ; The Articles of Treason being read against Montimer Earl of March , That he had procured the Death of the late King , and had under-hand-dealing with the Scots at Stanhope Park , and had been too familiar with the Queen-Mother , by whom she was thought to have been with Child , &c. The King charged Les Counts , & Barons , les Peers de son Royaume , to give Judgment : And then it follows , that Judgment was given Per les dits Counts & Barons les Peers de Royaume , come Judges du Parliament . Ibid. The King commanded Les dits Counts & Barons , Peers , &c. to give Judgment on Simon de Bereford . Ibid. The King commanded the same against several others , and accordingly John Matravers was judged Per les Peers , Counts , & Barons , assembles in Parliament . And so were Four others in the same Parliament , all for Treason ; and not one word of the Prelates , either when the Articles were read , or when Judgment was given : For it is certain , they are never spoken of in any Record , but either by the Name of Archiepiscopi , Episcopi , &c. or Prelati , or some such Name which doth distinguish them from the Laity ; and if they be spoken of , they are always first named and put before Les Counts & Barons ; as at this day , the Records are Entred by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal , &c. And for these two Reasons they could not be comprehended under the General words , Et autres Grandees & Nobles . Anno 6 E. 3. Post Festum Sancti Gregorii ; The Parliament were commanded to consult of the keeping of the Peace , and punishments for the Breakers thereof ; and the Prelates departed Pur ceo que il ne attinet pass a eux Consailer du gard de la Paix ne de chastement de tiels Malefactors : Yet afterward they came and gave their Assent to an Act of Parliament for this purpose : The reason of which shall be considered in another place , where we shall discourse of their Voting in Bills of Attainder . By this Record it is evident , That the Prelates have no Judicial Power over any Personal Crimes , which are not Parliamentary ; which doth very much Fortifie the Foundation and Ground of my whole Discourse . Anno 1 R. 2. The Commons prayed that such as gave up Forth , &c. puissent estre a respondre a cest Parliament & solonque lour desert fortment punis per agard des Seigniors & Barons . And thereupon several were brought before the Lords in Parliament , which must be understood of the Temporal Lords onely , because the Spiritual Lords are never intended in any Case to be mentioned , except they be specially named . Anno 11 R. 2. Divers Matters of Treason were to be Treated of , and several Lords to be Tryed ; and therefore the Spirituality did absent themselves from the whole Parliament : but before their departure , the Archbishop of Canterbury , in the Name of Himself , and all the Clergy of his Province , made this following Protestation : Quod Archiepiscopum Cantuariensem qui pro tempore fuit , nec non caeteros suos Suffraganeos Confratres , Co-episcopos , Abbates & Priores aliosque Prelatos quoscunque Baronium de Domino Rege tenentes , in Parliamento Regis ut Pares personaliter interesse pertinet , ibidemque de Regni negotiis & aliis ibi tractari consuetis cum caeteris dicti Regni Paribus & aliis consulere , ordinare , statuere , definire ac caetera facere , quae Parliamenti tempore ibid. intenditur facien ' . Quia in praesenti Parliamento agitur de nonnullis materiis in quibus non licet nobis juxta Sacrorum Canonum instituta quomodolibet interesse : Non intendimus nec volumus , sicuti de jure non possumus nec debemus : Ad haec insuper protestamur & nostrum quilibet protestatur , quod propter hujusmodi absentiam non intendimus nec volumus , nec nostrum aliquis intendit nec vult quod processus habiti & habendi in praedict ' Parliamento super materiis aut edictis in quibus non possumus , nec debemus ( ut praemittitur ) interesse quantum ad nos & nostrum quemlibet attinet futuris temporibus quomodolibet impagnentur , infirmentur , seu etiam renoventur . This was read in full Parliament , and inrolled at the Request of the Prelates : And the like was made by the Bishops of Durham and Carlisle : Cotton 322. Co. 2. Inst. 586. From this Record you may observe : 1. That the Lords Spiritual do acknowledge that they have no Right to be present in Cases of Blood , Nec possumus , nec de jure debemus . 2. You may observe that they did accordingly absent themselves , and did thereby yield Obedience to the Parliament at Clarendon , and the Constitution at Westm. mentioned in Roger Hoveden , H. 2. That Clergy-men should not Agitare judicium Sanguinis ; though they pretended it was in Obedience to the Canons of the Church . 3. You may observe that they did not stay in the House till they came to the final Question Guilty or Not guilty , but departed at the first beginning of the Business , Quia agitur de quibusdam rebus in quibus non licet nobis interesse . These short Remarks I leave upon it at present , but shall take it more narrowly into consideration , when I come to answer their Objections , and shall go on with Precedents . In the Reign of H. 4. The Earl of Northumberland was suspected to have been privy to the Rebellion of his Son Hotspur , who joyned with Mortimer Earl of March , and Owen Glendour of Wales , in open Rebellion . In the 5 of H. 4. he came and presented himself to the King and Parliament , and Protested his Innocency , and challenged his Jus Parietatis , and Right of Tryal by his Peers : Whereupon the Lords ( saith the Record ) made Protestation , that the Judgment belonged unto them onely , &c. The Petition being read before the King and the said Lords , as Peers of Parliament , unto whom such Judgments do of Right belong , considering , &c. Adjudged that it was neither Treason , nor Felony , &c. This was the first Process that was made against the Earl ; but it doth not evidently appear whether they were present or absent , the Roll being Lords indefinitely ; yet it is most probable that it is meant Temporal Lords onely . 1. If the Spiritual Lords had been present , they would have been named by a special Name , as they are in all other Rolls . 2. We find the Lords Temporal in other Cases of Life ▪ and Death , claiming the same Jurisdiction as belonging to them onely exclusively of the Clergy . Anno 4 E. 3. Judgment was given Per les Countes & Barons , les Peers de la Royaume , come Judges du Parliament . But I shall leave this , and come to the Process which Issued forth against him afterward , for the Earl being acquitted , returns home , and within a very little time hath a considerable Army in the Field , together with the Archbishop of York , Lord Bardolfe , and others ; but their Army soon Disbanding , the Earl of Westmerland comes with a considerable Strength for the King , and takes all the Lords Prisoners , except Northumberland and Bardolfe , who fled into Scotland : Whereupon 7 Hen. 4. Rot. Processus coram Domino Rege in Parliamento , &c. The King commanded the Lords Temporal Peers of his Realm to advise what Process to make , and what Judgment to render against the Earl of Northumberland , and the Lord Bardosse ; and then the Record goes on thus : And then the said Lords Advised thereon , and Reported their Opinion to the King. — The said Lords Peers of the Realm , by the Assent of the King , Ordained that Proclamations should be made for the said Earl of Northumberland , and Lord Bardolfe to appear , or else to stand Convicted of High Treason by the Award of the Peers in Parliament . The King did further demand the Opinion of the said Lords Temporal , touching the Archbishop of York . — Vnto which the Lords Temporal said , &c. By Advice of the said Lords Temporal , the Returns of the former Proclamations were made at the Parliament-Door , for the said Earl and Lord to appear . By Advice of the said Lords Temporal , with Assent of the King , the former Proclamations were examined . — The said Lords Temporal considered of the Errors therein , &c. By the said Lords Temporal , with Assent of the King , by their Authority new Proclamations were granted . — Whereupon the said Lords Temporal then being in the same Parliament , by Advice and Consent of our Lord the King , and by their Authority in Pa●●●●●● ▪ Awarded the said Earl of Northumbeland , and the Lord Bardolfe , not appearing upon their Summons , to stand Convicted of High Treason , &c. Here we see all was done by the Temporal Lords , from the first beginning of the Process until the Judgment , and yet it is said to be Awarded by the Peers in Parliament , although the Spiritual Lords are not so much as once mentioned , and consequently were not present , at any time whilst that Matter of Treason was handling . To Enumerate all the Instances of this Nature , and to Transcribe all the Records of Attainders in Parliament , where the Names of the Lords Spiritual are left out , which infers of necessity that they were absent ; would swell out this Treatise into a greater Bulk than either I intend , or then is in its self convenient . These are sufficient to prove that Obedience was yielded to those Laws and Constitutions of this Land , which were made for this purpose . I will mention one Precedent more , and that is the Earl of Strafford's Case , 16 Caroli : The Bishops declined their Suffrages on the Tryal of the Earl of Strafford , according to the provision of the Canon Law , and the constant practice to this day : ( says Baker , 478 ) and therefore withdrew : But they desired a Protestation that their Absence should not prejudice them of that , nor of any other Priviledge competent to them , as the Lords Spiritual in Parliament , might be entred ; which was done accordingly . It may be objected , That this is not to be made use of as a Precedent : That ( I answer ) is true as to the Matter of the Charge , and the Nature of the Crime that he was Impeached for ; no man must by colour of that Act be Adjudged a Traytor , that doth those things which the Earl of Strafford did : but as to the course of Proceedings , and all other Circumstances of the Method , it is well enough ; for nothing was done in that but what was warranted by Precedents and constant practice in Parliament : And this Difference doth appear from the Proviso in the Bill of Attainder , for that is no more but this : That no Judge or Judges shall hereafter interpret any Act or Acts to be Treason , in any other manner , than he or they should or ought to have done before the making of this Act ; and any thing contained in this Act to the contrary notwithstanding . So that the Proviso extends only to the Crimes , but not at all to their manner of proceeding . From the consideration of these things , That Allegation which is made by some , that they were wont to sit till the final Question , Guilty or Not-guilty ; were put , will plainly appear to be altogether groundless : Because First , If they have not Parity sufficient to Entitle them to any Jurisdiction in Cases of Life and Death , as I have endeavoured to shew that they have not , in the former part of my Discourse ; then it is evident , that they cannot exercise any Judicial Power at all , neither in things praeliminary to the Judgment , the Judgment it self , nor in things subsequent to the Judgment : all which do fall within the Conusance of Judicial Power , and do belong to the Office , Power , and Jurisdiction of a Judge . For so saith Magna Charta , Nemo imprisonetur , &c. Nisi per legale judicium parium suorum , and yet Imprisonment is a thing praeliminary to Judgment : The Office of a Judge is to hear first , and then determine , Oyer and Terminer ; but if any man be not duly qualified to be a Judge , then he hath as little power to hear the Cause , or Act any thing in it , as to determine it . Secondly , The Constitution of Clarendon , saith , Debent interesse Judiciis Curiae Domini Regis quousque perveniatur ad diminutionem Membrorum vel ad mortem . This must either be understood to comprehend all precedent and praeliminary things , which do relate or tend ad diminutionem Membrorum , &c. Or else if we take the words strictly and literally , we must understand the meaning of that great Assembly to be onely for the Exemption of Prelates from doing the Office of Executioners ; which is Non-sense : By Diminutio , &c. therefore , or Mors , we must understand things conducing and tending ad diminutionem , &c. or ad mortem . The Constitution at Westminster is much plainer , Non debent agitare judicium sanguinis ; the meaning is plainly this , That they ought not to exercise any Judicial Power in Cases of Blood : But a man may exercise Judicial Power agitare Judicium ; or do the Office of a Judge in a great many things that are both precedent and subsequent to the Judgment ; as Awarding of Process , receiving the Charge , &c. Therefore the Bishops ought not to have any praeliminary Vote which hath any tendency or relation to a Judgment of Death . Thirdly , When ever the Clergy , in Obedience to these Constitutions , did withdraw , they left the whole Management of the Business from the beginning to the end to the Lords Temporal , as appears from the Entry of the Records : so it is 4 E. 3. in the Earl of Kents Case ; he was brought before the Counts and Barons , &c. for Treason : In the same year the Articles were read against Mortimer , and the King charged Les Counts & Barons , to give Judgment upon the said Articles . The same was in the Case of Simon de Bereford , Matravers , and others in that year : 11 R. 2. the Prelates departed from the House at the first Motion about the Appeals , and did not stay so much as till the Articles were read . In the Earl of Northumberlands Case , it appears , they had not so much as one Vote from the beginning to the end of the whole Proceedings , and the sole Management of the Case was by the Award and Judgment of the Lords Temporal . In the 21 of R. 2. the Prelates gave their Opinions generally , that Pardons were revocable , but after they had done , they departed the House , and would not consent so far to the Death of a man , as to give a particular Vote , when the Question was put , Whether the Pardons of the Duke of Gloucester , and the Earls of Arundel and Warwick were revokable : Baker 161. And indeed if they should have been permitted to Vote about their Answers , &c. it would quite frustrate and elude the Design of the Prohibition ; for somewhat or other might happen to be put to the Vote in their presence , concerning the Answer , Replication , &c. or concerning the Form and Method of Judicature , upon which the whole Business would depend ; and by the Voices of the Spiritual Lords that Vote it , might pass against the major part of the Temporal Lords , and so the whole Business lost , and the Expectation of Justice frustrated ; so that it is highly reasonable , that if they be absent at all , they should be absent , Dum de hujusmodi materiis agitur . Having thus by Reason and Authority established the Truth of those Propositions which I at first laid down , I shall now examine the Strength of those Arguments , whereby my Adversaries do support themselves , and maintain the Jurisdiction of the Lords Spiritual in Capital Cases . And 1. Their Grand Objection is , That they never absented themselves when Capital Cases were Debated , upon any other account , then because they were prohibited by the Laws of the Holy Church , to consent to the Death of any man : And accordingly they made their Protestation , 11 R. 2. when they departed the House , Juxta Sacrorum Canonum instituta non licet nobis interesse , &c. And such a voluntary Departure for Conscience-sake ( say they ) lest they should concern themselves in the Effusion of Innocent Blood , could neither conclude themselves nor their Successors from claiming their Right to be present by the Fundamental Law of the Land , as Peers of Parliament . Here lies their Strength , and therefore a solid Refutation of this will remove all manner of Scruple , and discover the vanity of their pretensions to any Jurisdiction of this kind : Therefore in answer to this , I shall offer these following Considerations : 1. What-ever was the Reason that induced them to absent themselves when such Matters came to be Debated ; yet it is manifest from what hath been said , that there was an Act of Parliament ( to which they were obliged to give Obedience , as well as the Canons of the Church ) that did expresly prohibit them to exercise Jurisdiction in those Cases : and although they did say that their Departure was in Obedience to the Canons of the Church , yet without doubt we ought to construe their Departure to be also in Obedience to the Laws of the Land : For the Case at the most favourable Representation , is no more than this ; The same thing is both prohibited by the Law of God , and the Law of Man ; those who forbear from the thing prohibited , do say they do it , because they are so commanded by the Law of God , and say no more : In this Case we cannot construe , that either the Law of Man doth lose its force and obligatory Power , or that those persons who said they forbore from the thing prohibited in Obedience to the Law of God , did either not obey , or disobey the Law of Man ; I mean , In foro hum ano . If then the Prelates in former times did give Obedience to the Laws and Constitutions of this Nation in this particular ; much more ought their Successors , whose Principle is strict Obedience to the Government of the Kingdom and perfect submission to the Higher Powers . The truth is , it was a happy thing that in the days of their Predecessors , the Law of the Church , and the Law of the Land did so well agree in this particular ▪ and if you would consider the Humors and Principles of the Men , you would not wonder so much at their Non-acknowledgment of the Laws of the Nation , when they could secure themselves against the Compulsion of them and Punishment inflicted by them , without making any such acknowledgment . It is not strange that those men , whose Zeal for Religion was seen most in their Contentions and Wranglings with the Civil Power ; and who thought that Obstinacy and Disobedience to Regal Authority , and the Laws and Constitution of the Government , where they thwarted the Ambition and Grandeur of the Pope and his Clergy , was the most certain way to merit Canonization ; and that Beckett and Stratford , and the rest of that Rebellious and Disobedient Tribe , were the mightiest Saints that ever lived upon Earth . It is not strange that those Men that would trample all Humane Laws under their Feet , if dissonant to the Canons of the Church , should pretend , that when the Canons of the Church did agree with the Laws of the Land , they yielded Obedience to the Canons of the Church , without taking notice of the Laws of the Land. And indeed it was an extraordinary Specimen of Candor and Modesty , that they did with so fair a pretence save themselves from the inconvenience of acknowledging the Temporal Power in the limitation of their Honour and Jurisdiction , which they were never known to be very forward to do : But God be thanked the times are turned , we have reason to expect more Humility and Loyalty from our now Spiritual Fathers , whose Principles do not allow them in the least Opposition to lawful Authority , and who it is to be hoped will never insist upon any thing , except they think that by the Law of the Land it is their Right . Secondly , Although they pretended that their departure from the House during the Debates of Capital Matters , was in Obedience to the Canons of the Church ; yet it is more than probable , that the consideration of the Law of England by which they were compellable to depart , whether there had been any such Canons in force , or not , was the strongest Reason why they did with-draw , and that for these two Reasons : 1. Because it is observable , That if those in whose power it was to dispense with their Disobedience to the Laws of the Land , did at any time give way to their Presence or Consent , that they should exercise Judicial Power in those Cases , then the Lords Spiritual used generally to make bold with the Canons of the Church , at least 〈◊〉 vice : How then can it be supposed , that at other times when there was no such Licence or Dispensation , their Departure was onely because of the Canons of the Church ? That Record of 21. R. 2. where they did consent to Constitute a Proxy , who should in their Name agree , or disagree to any Judgments of Death that should be given in that Parliament , is very considerable for this Point ; for in that Case they gave Authroity to another to do a thing which was unlawfull for them to do themselves , and it was done , because the King and Parliament being the Fountain of Law , and having power unica vice , or more , to dispense with any Law , at least such as come not within the Conusance of any other Court beside themselves , did give them leave so to do : whereas without doubt , the passing Sentence of Death upon a man by Proxy , was as great a Violation of the Canons of the Church , as if they had been personally present , and had passed Judgment themselves : For can any man rationally suppose , that the Clergy were so tender Conscienced , that they should not agree to the Effusion of any mans Blood themselves , and yet that their Consciences would allow them to Authorize another in their Name and Place , and by their Authority to consent to it ? As if it were not the same thing in point of Conscience for me to kill a man , as it is to procure another to do it : And so in point of Law , that which I am prohibited to do my self , I am also prohibited to impower another to do ; because that which a mans Servant , Procurator , or Attorney , doth by the Command , and by vertue of the Authority of the Master , is in Judgment of Law and Conscience interpretatively the Act of the Master himself : And the Constituting a Proxy in their Names to give Judgment of Death by vertue of an Instrument under their Hands and Seals , will further appear to be a breach of the Canons , if you consider the Letter of the Canon made , Anno 1222. in the Reign of H. 3. which you may find among the Constitutiones Archiepiscopi Stephani in Linwood , f. 146. — Authoritate quoque Concilii districtius inhibemus ne quis Clericus beneficiatus aut in Sacris Ordinibus constitutus litteras pro poena sanguinis infligenda scribere vel dictare presumant , vel ubi Judicium sanguinis tractatur , vel exercetur intersit . From this Canon I conclude , That Clergy-men ought neither to be present themselves , nor depute others per litteras , to be present pro poena sanguinis infligenda . We have likewise a very pertinent Observation upon this Matter in an ancient MS. Chronicl . in libro Mailrosso , which hath written very largely of this Parliament that was held 21 R. 2. wherein the Prelates are blamed for that Opinion which they gave generally about the Revocation of Pardons , because the consequence thereof was the Death of those whose Pardons were Revoked : Dederunt ergo locum ( saith the Book ) Prelati judicio sanguinis in hoc facto . Ita quod debitatur a pluribus si non incurrerent irregularitatem pro negotio memorato , unde contigit quod propter istud minus peccatum inciderent in aliud Majus peccatum consequenter , ut laicam personam constituerint Procuratorem pro eisdem , qui illorum vice consentiret adjudicium sanguinis dandum in dicto Parliamento si necess● foret & occasio emersisset , &c. So that upon the whole Matter , it is irrational to think that their departure from the House ever before this , was meerly in respect of the Canons ▪ when we see that the first offer of the King and Parliament to admit them to the exercise of Jurisdiction for that time , was by them kindly accepted with a Non obstante to the Canons of the Church . It is true , the giving Judgment of Death by Proxy , was as great a violation of the Laws of England , as of the Canons of the Church : yet inasmuch as Consensus tollit errorem , it was for that time well enough . 2. This is further illustrated , If you observe that in those Cases to which the Prohibition of the Law did not extend , they made no scruple of Sitting and Voting , although their Voting in those Cases was against the Canons of the Church . This may be instanced in the Cases of Bills of Attainder : for although the Canons do prohibit them from Voting in such Cases , as much as any Case whatsoever ; inasmuch as in passing the Bill , they Vote , That the Person is Guilty , and shall stand actually Attainted of High Treason , and shall be deemed and adjudged a Traytor , and shall suffer as in Cases of High Treason , &c. yet they do generally Vote , because that the Prohibition of the Law doth not extend to Voting in Bills of Attainder , seeing that is not Agitare judicium , but onely Legis lationem , what they do in that Case is not Judicially , but onely the exercise of their Legislative Power ; otherwise the House of Commons would make themselves Judges , and would challenge a Judicial Power in the Tryal of any Lord , seeing in passing Bills of Attainder they do every whit as much as the Bishops ; for they Vote that he is Guilty , &c. and that he shall be adjudged a Traytor , &c. And the Act of Parliament runs , Be it Enacted by the King , the Lords Spiritual and Temporal , and Commons in Parliament assembled . For these two Reasons I think it very improbable , that the Canons was the onely cause why the Prelates did depart the House when Capital Cases were Debated : But that the weakness of their Objection may further appear ; I answer , Thirdly , Although we should admit that the Canons of the Church were the first occasion of the beginning of this Custom among us , and that those Histories and Chronicles which inform us after this manner , do say true , yet this is no Argument against the validity of a standing Custom , the Commencemant of which is not upon Record : for Histories and Chronicles are not Matters of Record , neither are they in Law such strong and undeniable proof of the beginning of any usage , as to make it no Custom ; neither are the Canons of the Church Matters of Record ; and therefore cannot prove that there was no such Custom before the making of those Canons . Seeing then it is without doubt that there was a Custom that the Prelates should not exercise Jurisdiction in Capital Cases , and there is no Record that doth mention the time when it did begin , nor any time when it could be said , There never was such an Usage ; it must of necessity be supposed that it is as ancient as the Government it self , and part of the Fundamental Contract of the Nation , whereby their Jurisdiction was originally limited that it should not extend to such and such Cases . So that I do not argue from the validity or invalidity of those Canons , nor from any Construction that may be made upon the Letter of the Canons , but insist upon it as part of the Common Law of England , and do absolutely deny that it had its Original and Force from any Authority that the Pope of Rome with or without his Council , or a Convocation of the Clergy in England had , to impose Laws upon us ; but affirm , that its force and obligatory Power did solely arise from the voluntary reception , approbation , and usage allowed by the People of England , which being by them transmitted to Posterity , is a thing reputed to have been used and practised time out of mind , and is thereupon ranked among the Common Laws of this Kingdom ; which are no more but general Usages or Customs of general Concernment to the whole Nation in things of Temporal Conisance , first upon reasonable Considerations by consent allowed , and then transmitted as a Tradition to Posterity , by whom they are supposed to have been in ure ever since it was a Nation : But this matter of Judicature in Capital Cases is a point of Temporal Jurisdiction in a Temporal Court ; viz. The High Court of Parliament , and therefore of Temporal Conisance : the departure of the Clergy when such Cases came to be Debated , hath also been an interrupted practice for many Ages together ; yea and most strictly observed in the first Ages , whose Transactions are Recorded ( as hath been already proved ) and it is impossible by Record to trace it to its first Original : Therefore it agreeing with every part of the definition of Common Law , is part of the Common Law it self , and doth consequently bind all subjects to its Observation as a standing Law , not alterable any way , but the same way it at first took its force , that is , by general consent , according to the Maxime laid down by my Lord Cook , in his 1. Inst. 115. b. Whatsoever was at the Common Law , and is not ousted or taken away by any Statute , remaineth still . And although this Practice that was enjoyned by these Canons , was here allowed and observed , yet that observation was not out of respect to the Canons as such ; but as they did command such things as were judged rational : and it had been the same case if the Custom had begun in England in imitation of other Countries , as it is upon the account of the Canons : For though the Bishops of Rome claiming an universal and absolute Power of Legislation , in ordine ad Spiritualia , over all Christendom , took advantage of every Opportunity that offered it self for the obtaining of this Right , which they pretended was Jure divino , and in Right of their Vicarship due ; yet knowing that Princes would not so easily part with the Jewels of their Crowns , in suffering their People to be in Subjection to the Laws and Constitutions of any foreign Prince , in things which either directly or indirectly did affect their Temporal Possessions , they thought it necessary to manage their Business with all imaginable artifice and cunning , by bringing the Laity to the humour by degrees ; and accordingly did at first collect certain Rules and Directions for the Government of the Clergy onely , which were called Decreta , first published in England during King Stephens Reign ( as some do think , though others reckon it was long before ) but never throughly observed in England , Kellaway . 7 H. 8. 184. But having got a small incouragement by the reception of these Rules in many Countries , they thought they might venture a little further , and then would have the Laity as well as the Clergy , to give Obedience to their Edicts : but that must be first in some inconsiderable indifferent things ; as Abstinence from Meats , &c. and did not style them with the Lordly Name of Leges , but with a great deal of Meekness and Humility , and the Complement of Servus servorum Dei , did offer to their Consideration certain Rogationes ; whence the Abstinence-week before Whitesunday was called Rogation-week , as M●●silius Pat. lib. Defensor . pacis , 2 part . 23. observes ; Christians having out of Piety and Honour for his Holiness , yielded Obedience to these same Rogations , they made bold to proceed one step further ; that is , They together with their Councils made certain Orders or Decretals about Temporal Matters , ( but in ordine ad Spiritualia too ) when these came first into England : See Matthew Paris , 403. To these Decretals Obedience was required from Prince and People , and all Contumacious and Obstinate Delinquents were most severely Anathematized : The Decretals were such as these , That any Clergy-man that was grieved by a Judgment or Sentence in the Court-Christian , or any other Court Ecclesiastical within this Realm , might be relieved by an Appeal from Rome ; That no Lay-man should have the Disposition of any Ecclesiastical Preferment , nor the Presentation to a Church ; That he shall not Marry within such and such Degrees ; That Children born before Espousals ▪ be legitimate ; That the Clergy should be absolutely exempted from Secular Power , &c. Yet these Decretals met with very little respect in England , France , or any other part of Christendom , except Peter's Patrimony in Demesne , the Popes own Territories , called by the Canonists Patria Obedientiae . For in England ( to wave any discourse of the Laws and Customs of other Countries ) in stead of being received and observed according to Expectation , they were stoutly opposed by the Judges and Magistrates , as derogating from the Soveraignty and Prerogative of the King , and tending to the detriment of the Rights and Properties of his Subjects : And in Confirmation of this , several Acts of Parliament were made to curb the Insolence of those usurping Popes , and to punish the audacious Enterprises of those factious and disloyal Subjects , who did presume to attempt to controll the Judgments that were given in the Kings Courts by Process from the Pope ; or to procure Provisions and Reservations of Benefices by Bulls or Breve's from Rome : See 27 E. 3. c. 1. 48 E. 3. c. 1. 25 E. 3. c. 22. 16 R. 2. c. 5. whereby such Suers of Appeals , and Procurers of Bulls and Process from Rome , for the purposes aforesaid , are made liable to the Penalties of a Praemunire , whereby the Body of the Offendor is to be Imprisoned during the Kings Pleasure , his Goods forfeited , and his Lands seised into the Kings Hands , so long as the Offendor liveth . How far the Benefit of Clergy was allowed , I have already shewn ; And as for the Matter of Legitimation , you may see the Statute of Merton , c. 9. Et rogaverunt omnes Episcopi Magnates ut consentirent , quod nati ante matrimonium essent legitimi , sicut illi qui nati sunt post matrimonium quantum ad successionem haereditariam , quia Ecclesia tales habet pro legitimis . Et omnes Comites & Barones responderunt quod nolunt Angliae leges mutare , quae hucusque usitatae & approbatae sunt : Vide 18 E. 4. 30. a. All which Statutes are Declarative of the Common Law , and therefore do prove that the People of England were never obliged to allow of any Decrees of Councils or Canons of the Church , further than they judged it fit and convenient so to do ; which Arbitrary Reception , together with a Transmission to Posterity , did of it self make it one of the Laws of England , which continues in force ( though the Councils or Convocations should afterward repeal their Decrees ) till they be altered by Act of Parliament , Co. 5. Cawdries Case 9. Davies Reports 70 , 71. the case of Commendam : And the Preamble to the Statute of Dispensations and Faculties , made 25 Hen. 8. c. 21. which runs in this manner : Whereas this his Majesties Realm , recognising no Superiour under God , but onely his Majesty , hath been and is free from subjection to any mans Laws , but onely such as have been devised , made , and ordained within this Realm , for the wealth of the same , or to such other as by sufferance of the King and his Progenitors , the People of this Realm have taken at their free liberty by their own consent to be used among them , and have bound themselves by long Vse and Custom to the observance of the same , not as to the observance of the Laws of any foreign Prince , Potentate , or Prelate , but as to the customed and ancient Laws of this Realm , originally established as Laws of the same , by the said Sufferance , Consents and Customs , and none otherwise . And so it is in Co. Rep. 5. ● . part . fol. 31. All Canons , Constitutions , Ordinances , Synods , Provincials , &c. are inforce that have been by general Consent and Custom within the Realm allowed , and so may be general consent be corrected , enlarged , explained or abrogated . Seeing therefore it is evident from what hath been already said , that those Canons and Constitutions of the Church concerning Judicature in Matters of Blood , have not onely been practised and allowed in this Nation successively for several Ages together , beyond all time of Memory , but also ratified and confirmed by Act of Parliament ; it follows , that they have the force of Laws of England , and are not alterable without an Act of Parliament ; as the twelve Tables of Athens did really become , and were properly called Jus civile Romanum , after they were voluntarily received and allowed at Rome : And as the same may be instanced in some parallel Cases among our selves , as the Priviledge of Clergy , Pluralities , and Dispensations , &c. which were parts of the Common Law of England , although they became such no otherwise then by the Nations reception and observation of the Canons of the Church . Lastly , I am not apt to believe that this Custom was taken up upon the account of the Canons of the Church , but rather because it was a thing agreeable to the Constitution of the Government , the Reason and Rules of the Common Law , and the Nature of their Jurisdiction and Honour , being meerly praedial or feudal ; and that because upon a strict search it will be found of ancienter date than any of the Canons of the Church ; for the first Canon that I find in Linwood is that which was made An. 1222. and is among the rest of the Constitutions of Archbishop Stephen in these words ; Presenti decreto statuimus ne Clerici beneficiati aut in Sacru Ordinibus constituti villarum Procuratores admittantur , videlicet ut sint Seneschalli , aut Ballive talium administrationum , occasione quarum laicis in reddendis ratiociniis obligentur , nec Jurisdictiones exerceant seculares praesertim illas quibus Judicium Sanguinis est annexum Authoritate quoque Concilii districtius inhibemus ne quis Clericus beneficiatus vel in Sacris Ordinibus constitutus litteras pro poena Sanguinis infligenda scribere vel dictare presumat , vel ubi Judicium Sanguinis exercetur intersit : Linwood , 146. Which Constitution was made above fifty years after the Parliament at Clarendon , which confirms this Custom , and calls it one of the Avitae consuetudines . These Particulars well considered , will give a very satisfactory Answer to their Objection , and therefore I need not say any more . But it is further objected , That the Clergy in their Protestation which they made 11 R. 2. do declare , Quod ipsos personaliter interesse pertinet , ( and so they did in some Protestations which were made afterward ) and after all they do insert this Clause , Non volumus nec intendimus quod processus habiti & habendi , &c. futuris temporibus quomodolibet impugnentur , infirmentur , seu renoventur . From this they argue , otherwise all the Proceedings of the House of Lords in the absence of the Clergy , are invalid and reversable , or else to what purpose is this Clause : And the Lords Temporal giving leave that this Protestation should be entred upon Record , did implicitely assent to what the Clergy alledged therein . To this I answer , That a Protestation in its self is no argument of any Right neither doth the permission and allowance of any Protestation , yield that right which the Protester is desirous to save , but only saves the right which the party had before , if he had any ; and if none , then the making that Salvo could give him none ; for the outmost that a Protestation can do , is to anticipate a Conclusion , or Estoppel ; i. e. to provide that the doing of any such Act as is Contained in the Protestation , shall not be constructed to the Prejudice of the Party ; so as to Barr or Conclude him from Clayming afterward that which in rei veritate is his right . So that this Protestation of the Clergy is no Argument of their Right to be present and to Vote in Capital Matters ; and that chiefly for these two Reasons : 1. By the Roll we find that the Clergy did not only depart when Capital Cases were to be debated , but also in all other Cases that were done that Session ; because there were many Matters of Treason to be handled , therefore they absented from the Parliament altogether : so it is in Sir. Rob. Cotton's Abr. 322. So that this Protestation may very well be supposed to have been made with respect to those other Matters which were not Capital , where they had an undoubted Right to be present , and therefore such a Protestation might be very Proper ; and not to have any respect to those Cases which were Capital , especially seeing they did alwaies in such Cases Absent themselves in former times without making any Protestation . 2. Admitting that the Clergy did intend that Capital Cases , as well as others which were not Capital , should be within the Salvo of their Protestation ; yet nothing can be inferred from thence , but that they themselves said they had Right to be present , and what then ? Must it of necessity follow that they had Right because they Claimed it ? If that Consequence had been allowed to be good , I am afraid the Crown of England had been Incorporated long ago into the Triple Crown . As for that Clause of the Protestation for the Validity of all such Transactions as should happen to pass in their Absence , I must confess I do not think it was to very much purpose . 1. Because that without any Proviso the Proceedings of the House of Lords in their Absence , had certainly been valid enough , as I shall prove anon . 2. If they had not been good , this Clause could not have helped them ; because wherever the Assent and agreement of any person or persons is Requisite for the perfection of a thing , it is necessary that that thing to which the Assent is Requisite , be in esse at the time of the Assent made ; for otherwise it is an Assent to nothing , and that is as much as no Assent at all : If therefore the Assent of the Prelates be indispensably necessary to the perfection of every Judgment and Bill that passeth the House of Lords ; Such a precedent Assent to all that shall Pass , during their Absence in General , which is an Assent to they do not know what themselves , will not amount to a sufficient agreement ; The Reason is , because the Law of England doth presume that in all private Transactions between Party and Party , and much more in things of Publick concernment and of so great moment , as Making of Laws and Giving Judgment of Death uppon Peers of the Realm , whatsoever a Man doth is upon Rational Inducements , and that the Conveniency and Advantage which he expects will Accrue thereby , is the Motive that prevails with him to agree●●… the thing ; and therefore all such Agreements as are made at aventure , when the party agreeing knows not what it is he agreed to , ( as when a man agreeth to a thing before it be in esse ) are rejected in Law as Irrational and 〈◊〉 : So if a Tenant comes and say to his Lord , I agree to all Grants which you shall hereafter make of the Manor , or any part of it ; Surely this without a Subsequent Agreement to every particular Grant , will not 〈…〉 Attornement . And at the Common Law , Licences for Alienation , granted to Tenants , were alwaies special ; and a general Licence to 〈…〉 which the Tenant should afterward make , was void . And if such an agreement of the Lords Spiritual , as is before described , be sufficient 〈…〉 Judgment or Bill which shall pass the House of Lords ; then they may 〈◊〉 say that the whole House of Lords may depart from Parliament , and agree before hand in the same manner to every Bill which shall 〈…〉 House of Commons , and these with the Royal Assent shall be good Laws ; especially if it be , as they say , that the Clergy is one of the Three Estates of Parliament . But then you will demand , Why should the House of Lords ▪ suffer these things to be entred upon the Roll , if they did not think that their Claims were legal ? &c. To this it may be answered : 〈…〉 is only a Register or Narrative of all the Matters of Fact that passed in the House of Lords , and although the entring of a Passage upon the Roll makes is so Authentick , that the Matter of Fact ( viz. that there was certainly such , a passage ) 〈◊〉 undeniable ; yet it doth not follow that every thing that is entred upon the Roll , is good Authority for Matter of Law , except it appear by the Roll that it was taken for Law by the Vote and Resolution of the House ; and therefore although the House of Lords did suffer this Protestation to be entred upon the Roll , yet it doth not follow that they did allow that every thing that the 〈◊〉 said was 〈◊〉 but only allowed it to be true , that the Protestors did say so . And besides the ●●tring of a Protestation is a thing which is always reckoned the best Expedient for reconciling of Differences when begun , or preventing of them before they are begun ▪ or at least for diverting them till a more seasonable time , when the putting of the Matter to a Tryal , would either prove dangerous , or expensive of more time , than the urgency of other more important Affairs , then to be managed would allow and therefore the Request of Entring their Protestation , is never upon any account whatsoever , denied to those who have not a mind to be concluded by the then Proceedings ; and if there be any thing contained in the Protestation that is of an ill Complexion in the Judgment of the House , either as tending to the Diminution of the Kings Prerogative , the Authority of Parliament , or otherwise ●●●●…ying the Constitution of the Government ; the Pr●●●●●● ion is allowed to be Entred first , and the Protestors punished for it when they have alone . We find in the Reign of Rich. 2 ; two Bills passed the House of Commons , the one against Provisors , the other against Procurers of Process from the Court of Rome ; these Bills were violently opposed by the Clergy in the House of Lords , but notwithstanding the Bills passed the House , the Clergy in a great Rage depart the House , and Protest against the Bills , as abridging the Authority and Priviledges of the Holy Church ; which the Lords suffered to be entred , and yet did not agree to those Allegations of the Clergy ; for the Royal Assent was given , and they were always accounted good and firm Laws , 13 R. 2. c. 2 , and c. 3. We find also that in the time of his late Majesty , Twelve Bishops departed the House , and Protected against 〈◊〉 Orders , 〈…〉 &c. that should be made in their Absence , which Protestati●●… at their Request was entred upon the Journal , and 〈◊〉 was so far against the Sense of the House , that they Voted it prejudicial to the Government , and destructive of the very Being of Parliaments ; for which some of them were put into the T●●…er : This I mention , to shew that although the Matter of Protestation do 〈…〉 thwart the Genius and Disposition of the whole House , yet the Request of having ●…ntred , is never denied . In the next , place , I shall consider the Roll of 21 Rich. 2. where the first Petition that the Commons made that Parliament to the King , was ; For that divers Judgments were heretofore undone , for that the Clergy were not present , the Commons prayed the King , that the Clergy would appoint some to be their Common Proctor , with sufficient Authority thereunto . — The Prelates therefore being severally examined , appointed Sir Thomas de la Percie their Proctor to Assent , as by their Instrument appeareth . Thus was the Practice of Constituting Proxies begun . It is apparent to all men of Common Sense , That if the Clergy were forbidden to give Judgment of Death by any Law or Rules whatsoever , that Law was violated by their Constituting a Proxy , as much as if they had been personally present : Whether or no their Personal Presence was prohibited by the Law of England at this time , I leave to the Judicious Reader to determine from what hath been said before : If they were prohibited , then certainly this Petition of the Commons was unwarrantable , and contrary to Law. It is not impossible that the House of Commons being but fallible , men spurred on by too precipitant a Zeal and Eagerness for the accomplishment of a Business , should be endeavouring to make sure work , fall inconsiderately into another extream , and through the want of due Examination of Precedents , become guilty of a mistake . I shall not trouble my self much in discoursing about the possibility of the thing , for I shall make appear , that it was actually so in our Case : For , 1. That which was the ground of the Petition of the Commons ; viz. That divers Judgments have been heretofore undone , &c. was a palpable mistake de facto : It is true , the two Judgments that were given against the two Spencers , 15 E. 2. were reversed for this cause , through the great favour and interest that they then had at Court : And there is no question , but these two Judgments were the ground of the Commons Petition made . 21 R. 2. for there are no other Judgements to be found that were ever reversed for this cause ; but how well their Petition was grounded you may learn from 〈◊〉 E. 3. c. 1. Where this same Judgment is declared in Parliament to be good , and that the aforesaid reversal was null and void ; and the two Spencers upon this Affirmance of the Judgment were Executed . I suppose if the forwardness and Zeal of the Commons had given them time to search the Records with so much diligence that they might have found this , they had not said ; For that divers Judgments have been heretofore undone , &c. 2. That in point of Law the absence of the Prelates makes not a Judgment erronious , besides the Authority of that Record , 1 E. 3. is further proved : 1. From the Earl of Salisbury's Case , 2. H. 5. who petitioned that the Judgment that was given against his Father might be Reversed , and Assigns for Errour , that it was not with the Assent of the Lords Spiritual , who are Peers of the Realm : the House of Lords upon Debate resolved , that it was not Errour , and therefore the Judgment was good . 2ly , If the Consent of the Clergy be absolutely necessary to every Judgment that passeth the House of Lords , then consequently it must be necessary to every Act of Parliament : There can no manner of Difference be Assigned between the two Cases as to this Matter , for their Power and Jurisdiction in Legislation , is every whit as ample as their Power of Judicature ; and therefore their Concurrence is equally necessary in both Cases . But it is a thing of dangerous Consequence to Assert , that an Act of Parliament cannot be made without the Consent of the Clergy , for it will make some of the best Laws that ever were made in England before the Reformation , and which have ever been to this day accounted firm and established Laws , of no force at all . Most of the Statutes of Mortmain were made against the will of the Clergy , and their Dissent is recorded . The Statute De A●●…rtatis Religiosorum , is Enacted by the King , De Concilio , Comitum , Baronum , Magnatum , Procerum , & Regni sui Constatuum in Parliament●… , &c. and yet proved by my Lord Cook in his Exposition of this Statute to be a good Law , from the Testimony of many Records and Acts of Parliament that recite this Statute . The Statute of 3 Rich. 2. c. 3. was made against the Clergy , for the ill disposition of Dignities , Offices , Canonries , Prebends , and Parsonages , and other Ecclesiastical Preferments , upon lewd and licencious persons , to the Scandal of Religion , and the neglect of Divine Service , &c. The Clergy being somewhat displeased that any should undertake to reform them , at the first reading of the Bill departed , but notwithstanding the Bill past , and is said to be Enacted by the King , Nobles of the Land , and the Commons , leaving out the Clergy : And yet this hath been allowed for an established Law by all the Judges . See Roll 3 R. 2. n. 38. — 40. The Statute of 7 R. 2. c. 12. was made to impower Justices of Peace to enquire of several grievous Extortions committed by the Bishops and their Officers , to the great grievance and oppression of the Kings Liege People , &c. The bringing in of this Bill offended the Clergy more than the former , insomuch that they left the House in a great Huff , Protesting against the Bill as injurious to the Franchises and Jurisdiction of the Church , yet notwithstanding it passed into a Law. The Clergy were absent all the Parliament that was held 11 R. 2. and yet divers good and profitable Laws were made that Parliament never questioned for their Validity , but always put in use , as 11 R. 2. c. 7. about Merchants , c. 8. concerning the granting of Annuities , c. 9. concerning new Impositions , c. 11. of Assizes ; and several others made in the absence of the Clergy . I might for this enumerate all the Statutes of Provisors and the Statutes of Premunire , for Suers of Appeals , and other Process from Rome , as 25 E. 3. c. 1. and 22. where the Names of the Clergy are left out : and 13 Rich. 2. c. 2. and c. 3. where they were so far from Assenting , that they entred Protestations against them , because they abridged the Popes Authority , as is before observed : And the 16 R. 2. c. 5. passed against the will of the whole Clergy . And so the Statute that was made in the same year about the Queens Marriage , without the Kings Consent , was made without the Concurrence of the Clergy ; for their Assent to it was special in this manner : So far as it is agreeable to the Law of God and the Holy Church . Which being conditional and under a Restraint , was according to the Course of Parliaments accounted as no Assent at all , and so it was specially Entred ; and yet none did ever question the Strength and Force of this Act. These Statutes being allowed by the Judges of England as Good and Authentick Laws , although they were not agreed to by the Lords Spiritual , do prove that the Concurrence of the Lords Spiritual is no more necessary to the Essence and Perfection of an Act of Parliament , than the Concurrence of as many Temporal Lords . Upon the whole Matter , it appears to have been a very strange and unaccountable over-sight in the House of Commons at that time , that they should be the first Introducers of an Innovation upon so false a Ground as theirs was . But however this Practice being built upon so sandy a Foundation , it seems had , no long continuance ; for there doth not occur in any Author , nor in the Abridgments of the Records , any mention of more than Two Proxies ; the first was Sir Thomas de la Percie , the second was Sir William de la Scroope , who immediately succeeded him in this his New Office : But seeing it is rash to Assert a Negative in a Matter of Fact , it will be very satisfactory if any will inform us of any more , and that may easily be done , if there were any ; because none can act as a Proxy , except his Procuratorship be Entred upon the Roll. Most of those Records that are Cited in the behalf of the Spiritual Lords , are either such as were in those times when the Clergy put in Proxies , as all those that are upon or after the 21 Rich. 2. and about the beginning of Hen. 4. Such is the Case of the Earl of Arundel ; for it appears by the Record , that the Constitution of the Proxy was in N. 9. and the Arraignment of the Earl was not till N. 15 , or 16. and therefore after the Proxy ; so that there was reason that the Records should be Entred by the King , Bishops , and Lords , seeing the Bishops Deputy was present ; but it is no Argument of their personal presence : Or else they are Cases of Bills of Attainder , and that is not much to our purpose ; for those will as well prove that the House of Commons have sate Judicially upon Matters of Life and Death . A Bill of Attainder is reckoned the strongest way , because there is a Concurrence of all the Three Estates , of both the Judicial and Legislative Power ; and that is necessary for making a Forfeiture of all manner of Rights , Titles , and Interests , which otherwise are not Forfeitable : And if at any time there was an opportunity for the Clergy to transgress the Laws both Ecclesiastical and Civil . ( I mean the Statutes and Customs of this Realm ) which was connived at by the rest of the Lords and Commons , I hope that will not be accounted a Precedent to overthrow a Custom of so Ancient a Date , and so agreeable to the Fundamental Constitution of the Government , and the Grounds and Reasons of the Common Law , and also Confirmed by an Act of Parliament : So by degrees the whole Method and Course of Parliamentary Proceedings may be altered , and the very Being and Foundation of Parliaments shaken . So we should have had the Lords refusal to Sequester the Earl of Danby from Parliament , a Precedent ; if they had not afterward acknowledged it to have been an Errour . We may find in many Cases the Lords Dispensing with Magna Charta : 4 E. 3. n. 6. They passed Judgment of Death upon several Commoners : 15 E. 3. We find several Particulars enumerated , wherein the Commons complained of Breaches of Magna Charta , and we are not sure that all these particular Cases were remedied , and therefore must these stand all for Precedents ? At this Rate there are few Points of Law perhaps that will escape Doubt and Controversie : for we shall have some of the Lords pretend they can transfer their Honours , and so are able to make the Kings Enemies his Councellors , because in Daincourts Case , 4. Inst. 126. one Branch of the Family sate in the House by vertue of a Grant from the other Branch of the Family , from the Raign of E. 2. to H. 6. And the Earldom of Chester was first granted 17 H. 3. and transferred 39 H. 3. And upon these Precedents there was an Attempt in the Lord Fitz-Walter's Case to make a Baron by Translation of interest . Admitting therefore that Once or Twice , or such a matter , the Bishops have Voted in Capital Cases , yet they cannot Controul an Antient and well established Custom , though I am not apt to believe there are many such Cases : However it was a very pleasant humour of a Gentleman that wrote lately of this matter and cited a Precedent in the Raign of R. 2. Of the Earl of Arundel and Wardor , whereas there was no such Lord as Arundel and Wardor Created till King James his time , Vide pa. ult . so p. 30. He cites the Case of the Earl of Salisbury , who in his Petition says the Prelates are Peers in Parliament , and assigns for Error that they were Absent when Judgment was given against his Father ; and this is a good Precedent to prove the Prelates right to Vote in Capital Cases as Peers in Parliament : Whereas the Petition was disallowed , and the Judgment affirmed by the resolution of the whole House . Such a way of arguing deserves some special animadversion . But I shall supersede any further Consideration of the matter , and shall conclude that without an Act of Parliament the Bishops can have no right to Vote in Capital Cases , which if this present Parliament shall think fit to make , it behoves all true Subjects to agree thereto . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A30974-e1790 Baker 124. Co. 2. Inst. 654. Baker 141. Vide Parliam . held at Clarendon . 11. H. 2. Fitz. Tit. Cor. pl. 417. 8 E. 2. 17 E. 2. 386. 19 E. 2. 233. Vide Co. ● . Inst. 636.