The great question to be considered by the King and this approaching Parliament, briefly proposed, and modestly discussed, (to wit); how far religion is concerned in policy or civil government and policy in religion? ... / by one who desires to give unto Cæsar the things that are Gods. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1679 Approx. 44 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2006-02 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A54150 Wing P1300 ESTC R7032 12193395 ocm 12193395 55932 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A54150) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 55932) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 872:42) The great question to be considered by the King and this approaching Parliament, briefly proposed, and modestly discussed, (to wit); how far religion is concerned in policy or civil government and policy in religion? ... / by one who desires to give unto Cæsar the things that are Gods. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 8 p. s.n., [London : 1679] Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Caption title. Attributed to William Penn. cf. NUC pre-1956. Signed: Philo-britannicus. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Church and state -- Great Britain. Sovereignty -- Great Britain. 2005-07 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-10 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-11 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2005-11 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-01 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion The Great Question to be Considered by the KING , and this approaching PARLIAMENT , briefly proposed , and modestly discussed : ( To wit ) How far Religion is concerned in Policy or Civil Government , and Policy in Religion ? With an Essay rightly to distinguish these great Interests , upon the Disquisition of which a sufficient Basis is proposed for the firm Settlement of these Nations , to the most probable satisfaction of the several Interests and Parties therein . By one who desires to Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars , and to God the things that are Gods. THat this Nation , and the Nations of Scotland and Ireland concerned with it , are at present in such a posture , and under such circumstances , as give just reason both of fear and care more then ordinary both to Rulers and People , is so without doubt , that it needs no proof ; and that we are in a dangerous Feaver ▪ in regard both to our Civil and Religious Interest , all in their wits must know : which Disease , albeit it be now in the opinion of most come to a Crisis , yet few can determine whether it will end in a natural cool , or prove a distemper yet more dangerous and deadly . And truly , at this time we are so far happy , that though the Evil be great which threatneth , us , yet the Cause thereof is very manifest , so that we are not put to the disadvantage of an uncertain search in that matter . We see all this trouble proceeds from a pretence of Religion , and Opinion that men have drank in , that for and because of Religion , they ought to concern themselves in the Civil Government of the Nations , yea so far as to overturn it , if otherwise the advancement of their Religion cannot be procured . How much this Opinion , albeit managed by men vastly differing as to the Religion they would advance , has wrought to the shaking of these Nations , few can be ignorant ; so that it seems high time , and no season more opportune then now , that this Question were fully decided , What is the Interest of Religion in Policy or Civil Government ; and again , of Policy and Civil Government in Religion ? And how far men upon the account of Religion may and ought to meddle in the Government , or with the Governours ; and again , how far the Civil Magistrate , as such , ought to concern himself in the Consciences of the People ? that if possible , such Principles may be pitched upon , agreeable to the nature of Christianity , and to the soundest Principles of Government , by which men may be possessed with a Faith , that Christianity doth not oblige them to meddle in Government , and reciprocally that they may be the more quieted in that belief , that the Magistrate is not to concern himself in their Consciences : so that in this mutual assurance , the Magistrate may rule securely , and administer Justice to all equally , without fearing hurt from the Religion of any of his people ; and the people may fear God , and follow piety , according to the best of their knowledge , without fearing prejudice from the Magistrate therefore . And truly it cannot but be acknowledged , that it would be a happy Nation where this were fully fixed ; and the establishing of such Principles seems the less difficult , that in the purest times of Christianity , ( so reputed by all ) the true Christian Religion was not at all hurtful nor dangerous to the Magistrate , though differing from it ; nor did the Christians judge it any part of their Religion , to seek to disturb him in his Government , or screw themselves into it : and though again they acknowledged his Authority in Civils to be just and lawful , yet they claimed an exemption from being imposed upon by him in the exercise of their Consciences ; so that a re-establishing of those Principles and Practices which were believed and followed , by those who on all hands are affirmed to have been the purest Christians , and also good and faithful Subjects , will do the business . But for the more clear understanding of this matter , it will be fit to take it a little higher , and enquire how those two great Interests of Religion , and Civil Government , came to be interlaced and mixed together . Cain was the first that disturbed Civil Society because of Religion ; and the Scripture , from which alone we may expect it , gives no account of any thing like the mixing of these Interests before the Floud ; and after the Floud , the whole tract of the Hebrew History from Heber to Moses , ( for of the particular state of the Jews I shall speak anon ) 〈◊〉 shew , that the matter of Religion was wholly distinct from the outward Policy and Government then used in the World. Jacob lived in Laban's Family , though differing from them ; and Joseph among the Egyptians , with which Superstitious Nation we cannot suppose he joyned in Worship , and yet was both a faithful Friend to Pharoah , and considerable Ruler over the People . Moreover , if the true ground and rise of Government be considered , this will more appear ; for all Lawyers and States ▪ men derive the first grounds of Government , from the Posterity of Noah's Sons after the Floud , and do show how through necessity , Reason and the Law of Nature led them thereunto ; for the Law of Nature giving to every man a natural and paternal Jurisdiction over his own Family , when as the increase of Mankind , and necessity of Commerce , gave occasion for several Families to be concerned together , and that these concernments begot Controversies needful to be determined , and that every Family stood upon equal foot as to Authority , and to decide by Force would prove destructive , and not necessarily be just , and that it was unfit every man should be Judge in his own cause ; therefore Reason led them to chuse men of approved Justice and Honesty , to whom all differences were remitted , and whose decisions served as Laws , and were readily submitted to , the parties resting in the assurance of their equity : and this all Lawyers generally acknowledge ▪ was the first foundation of Civil Government , in the joynt agreement of several Families ; from whence arose the Institution of Cities , and from their Interest in the Country about the division of Provinces and Kingdoms . Now as in the first part of Government in Families , the Authority stood in one ▪ viz. in the Father of the Family ; so they usually chose one for the Government of joynt Families , who thence were called Kings ; and this was the Original of Monarchy : whom the opinion of Honesty , Knowledge and Justice , most readily and without fear of Emulation advanced to that dignity , whose Judgment and W●ll answering to the cause of their advancement , was a Law to the People . Afterwards when the respect put upon these Rulers or Kings , and the advantage thence accruing increased , men began to be ambitious of the Imployment , and from thence to use their influence to obtain it ; from which followed Faction , and often Bloudshed , which made men fall upon the expedient of letting the Government rest upon the Children of those who formerly had possessed it , the Veneration of their Fathers , and the supposition and expectation they might inherit their Fathers Virtues greatly contributing thereto ; which laid the foundation of Hereditary Monarchy . But when the Primitive simplicity and integrity of those first Ages began to wear out , and that those Kings did extend and advance the Authority they derived from their Predecessors , but lost their Equity and Justice ; and since the ancient and entire confidence put in the first Rulers , had made their Government , and consequently their Successors , unlimited , it depending upon Will , and not qualified by any Laws , whereof there were not written at that time ▪ Thus Monarchy degenerated into Tyranny , as appeared in Nimrod , and his Successors , the Kings of Assyria , which gave a rise , as many judge , to the ●●●●itution of Commonwealths amongst the Grecians and others . Now during these times , although the number of those that truly feared God , and retained any 〈◊〉 of pure Religion , were very few and for most part ( at least ▪ so far as is conveyed to us in the Family and Success●●● of Abraham ; yet that inward and Universal Testimony of a Deity , implanted in the hearts of all men , ( as all sorts of Christians acknowledge ) did so far influence men , as to set their thoughts about Religion ; for as Cicero says Nulla Gens tam Barbara quae Deum aliquem non agnoscat ▪ since it is most certain , that Justice will gain a Testimony in the hearts of the most barbarous , the ancient Veneration and esteem to the great Justice and Equity of those Primitive Rulers , being fixed in 〈…〉 and heighned by the depravation of their Successors ; and this compared with daily ▪ 〈◊〉 afforded to men in the course of Providence , begot a belief that these things were the Gifts of these Good Kings 〈◊〉 in Heaven , from whence they came to be prayed unto , and reputed Gods 〈◊〉 And thus those things th●t did seem immediately to convey those 〈…〉 the Sun , Moon , and Stars , came 〈◊〉 to be adored , from whence sprung the Religion or divers ▪ Nations ▪ and thus 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 came to receive Power and Domination over others , 〈…〉 became more universally to be received . Now whereas Religion among the Gentiles had its rise so 〈…〉 hence , so every Nation had their p●rticular 〈…〉 , among this Roman● 〈…〉 , which they were devoted to ▪ The 〈…〉 of Religion with 〈…〉 insensibly , since all the Gentiles generally esteemed it a duty to worship the Gods of that place and Country they came to , as judging they had a sort of distinct and peculiar Jurisdiction there ; so there was little occasion of observing here a distinct Interest ; because there was no man to claim the liberty of exercising it : so far had blindness and Idolatry overgrown the World. In which state things continued for many Ages , until Daniel and the Three Children , after the carrying a way of the Jews by Nebuchadnezzar , gave a rise rightly to distinguish and clear the Marches b●twixt Religion and Policy , and claim the liberty of the one , without prejudice to the other ; for this making Religion necessary to Policy , took its strength from the unlimited Tyranny of the Assyrian Monarchy , and was the fruits of an Arbitrary Power , standing and exercised in the superlative degree ; ( and it 's observable , that where there is most of that sort of Government , there this , to this day , most prevails ; this being most suitable to meer Tyranny , and contrary to a solid and well-ballanced Government : ) for such being the state of the Assyrian Monarchy , as all well read therein know , the Flatterers of these Kings possessed them with a belief , that the Authority of no Power even in matters of Religion , was to be acknowledged , nor even the Counsel of any Deity sought to , above or besides that of the King ; for they did not build the reason of Obedience , upon the intrinsical verity of the thing commanded by the King , as those that press the same thing now would seem to do , or for shame pretend to do ; but meerly upon the Will and Command of the Prince , whom they think ought not to be disobeyed , whatever he commanded , whose Will they would have to be the only rule of mens Actions in all things : Hence came the fury of Nebuchadnezzar against the Three Children , for not obeying him , Dan 3. in falling down before his Golden Image ; and against Daniel , for praying with the Windows open towards Jerusalem ; for neither of them are charged for doing any thing prejudicial to the State , and except in this , were found faithful Servants to the King in other things wherein they were imployed . And as none will readily justifie the Assyrian King in his doings , whereof himself greatly repented , so the Imployments he bestowed upon those and other Jews , and wherein they proved useful and faithful to him , doth sufficiently shew , that the distinct Interests of Religion and Policy under one Prince , may well be found without prejudice either to Prince or People . The like may be observed in the case of Ahasuerus , who was influenced by Haman to give out an Edict for the destruction of the Jews ; the reason whereof urged by Haman was , that they had Laws different from the Kings Laws , and therefore it was not for the Kings profit to suffer them . I need not bestow pains to refute Haman's reason , since most men will condemn it . The same thing took place for the same cause in Nero , and the rest of the Emperors who persecuted the Christians ; for the piety and ancient equity and sobriety of the Romans wearing out , and the corruption ▪ degeneracy and effeminacy of the Eastern Nations prevailing , so as the Emperors would be reputed and adored as Gods , thence came their endeavouring to oblige men to acknowledge no God but their Will and Pleasure , and no Religion but what depended thereon ; thence they made Religion a necessary part of Government . And thus I have briefly traced things until such time as Christianity came to be established by Law , and Christians came to be Magistrates . After that Christianity came to be received in the Courts of Princes , and that the Emperors became Christians , their honest zeal was soon abused by the corruption and covetousness of the Clergy , who for their own ends first possess'd them with a belief that they ought to seek to settle and establish Christian Religion by their Force and Power , and that it did much contribute to their Spiritual advantage to bestow large Revenues upon the Clergy , and that as Supreme Magistrate he had a care and superintendency over the Church ; in meddling with which the Emperor Constantine found himself quickly not a little embarassed , when he could not find a way to satisfie the Clergy , when they came to quarrel among themselves ; and so each Party afterwards in the differences of these Times ▪ as they could draw the Emperor to their side , made use of this Power of the Magistrate in matters of Religion , for the destroying each other : until at last by the growing of Superstition and other great shakings which hapned to the Roman Empire , the Pope instead of being subject to the Emperor ▪ and appointed by him ( which he was for several Centuries ) made a shift to turn him by degrees out of Italy , establish to himself a Temporal Jurisdiction in Rome , as being forsooth Peters Patrimony , and at last not only to be independant from the Emperor , but superiour to him , as by the tract even of their own Historians is manifest , and known to all those who have read the story of Hildebrand and others . And thus by the like means several Bishops in Germany , and other places , abusing the zeal and ignorance of the people , came into the possession of great Temporal Jurisdictions ; and not only so , but in all Nations of Europe they obtained a place in the Government , and became a distinct State ; by means of which , having an immediate dependance upon the Pope , he came to exercise an Universal Monarchy in the Christian World : And thus Religion came to be a part of Civil Government among Christians . And it is greatly to be regretted , that in the Reformation this was not rooted out , but in a great measure retained not only by the Lutherans , but even by the Calvinists : So that although those who follow the Geneva Discipline , do pretend to abstract the Clergy from meddling in State , yet their method of proceeding proves at last the same ; for while they lay an obligation upon the Magistrate , under pretence of taking care for the Cause and Church of Christ , to establish one sort of form of Religion , and ruine all others ; wherein he must steer by the Clergies Compass , or otherwise have the people blown up unto a Sedition from the Pulpit : So that experience hath proved , that under the Government of Presbytery , ( especially as it was improved in Scotland , where it came to its height ) the insolency and imperiousness of the Clergy became no less troublesome and unsupportable to the Magistrates , then that of Bishops , whether Papal or Protestant ; so that it is manifest , the altering from one form to another , hath not cured these Nations of the mischiefs that therethrough has attended them , so long as that fundamental Error is entertained , of making Religion a part of the Civil Government . Now this brief Historical hint doth abundantly shew , how these Interests are distinct , and ought not be jumbled together : To which I shall add these brief Considerations . First , Because Religion and Policy , or Christianity and Magistracy , are two distinct things , have two different ends , and may be fully prosecuted without respect one to the other ; the one is for the purifying and cleansing the Soul , and fitting it for a future state ; the other is for the maintenance and preserving of Civil Society , in order to the outward conveniency and accommodation of men in this World. A Magistrate is a true and real Magistrate , though not a Christian ; as well as a man is a true and real Christian , without being a Magistrate . Christianity , far less this or that form of it , doth not belong to the being of Magistracy ; else the Apostles and Primitive Christians could not have acknowledged the Heathens to have been their lawful Magistrates and Superiors , as they did , and taught their Disciples so to do , as appeared in the practice of the Primitive Christians beforementioned . Secondly , Christ says expresly , his Kingdom is not of this World ; the thing he came for is a business distinct from the external Government of the World , and hath no necessary connexion thereto ; and therefore there doth not appear any one saying of his or his Followers , to warrant Magistrates as such to meddle in Religion , or to warrant his Disciples and Followers as such to meddle with the outward Government of the Nations : And truly the dismal effects this has produced , both to the ruine of Christianity and Civil Government , may convince those that are not byassed by particular Interest , ( as all Clergy-men , both Pope , Prelate and Presbyter generally are ) and love the good and advancement either of Christianity or Civil Government , that it is high time to avoid this snare . To this the state of the Jews is usually objected , whose Religion and Government was mixed together : But that saying of Christ abovementioned is thereunto a sufficient Answer , for they had an outward Kingdom , which Christ came not to establish , neither for himself nor Followers ; and theirs related to a particular Race or Family , which is not the case now : besides that their outward Policy was by Revelation expresly given them of God , who gave them Rulers , Judges , Kings , oftentimes by the particular appointment of his Prophets , without respect either to hereditary Right , or the choice of the People ; and unless we would plead for the like thing now , which none I know of do , I mean of those that strive for the Government , there can be nothing rationally urged from the state of the Jews in this matter . But some may be apt to say , that there is a necessity that Religion and Policy be interlaced , because those things are a part of Religion , which are of absolute necessity to Government ; such as the suppressing of Murther , Adultery , Theft , Perjury , which surely belongs to the Magistrates to punish . To this I answer , It is true it belongs to the Magistrate to punish such like crimes ; but as these things are contrary to the Law of God , and such as Religion strikes against , so they are injurious to Civil Society , and tend to destroy it ▪ and therefore come under the Magistrates cognizance in this respect , or under this reduplication , and not upon the meer Religious account ; for whatever is destructive or injurious to Civil Society , comes to be punished by the Magistrate upon that score , without respect to its concern in Christianity : as we see these things were punishable by the Magistrates in all well-regulated Kingdoms and Commonwealths among the Heathens ; where they could not be considered as any part of the Christian Religion . Not that I deny , where both Magistrate and People are Christian , and agreed in the acknowledgment that such things are not only hurtful to Civil Society , but destructive to their immortal Souls , he may improve that reason to deterr the people from these evils ▪ as also to bear home to them the justice of the punishment : but this he does not simply as a Magistrate , but as a Christian , even as such Magistrates among the Heathens as were Philosophers sometimes used to do . To this I suppose it may be also readily objected ; That according to this Principle both Papists , Presbyters , Anabaptists , yea such as were John of L●yden and his Complices , may and ought to be tolerated , if the Magistrate has nothing to do with the Consciences of his Subjects : And again , if the Magistrate should become any of these , the People ought quietly to bear it . To this I answer , and indeed herein the excellency of this fundamental Principle both in Religion and Government will appear , That Popery hath two parts , the one is that which is meerly Religious , that is , which relates properly to Religion or Conscience , and are peculiar to them , such as the believing Transubstantiation , Purgatory , Adoration of Saints and Images , yea and the Superiority of the Bishop of Rome over other Church-men , as they call them ; all which , and those of this kind , may be believed and professed without prejudice to Civil Society , and as being matters meerly relating to Conscience , come not properly under the Magistrates cognizance . The other part is the opinion of the Pope's power over Princes and States , his absolving the people from their Obedience , his giving them Dispensations to kill and destroy them ; and allowing them not to keep Faith to Hereticks , and such like ; which as they are destructive to Government , are truly no part of Religion , but a politick contrivance long hatched by the Bishop of Rome and his Dependants , for establishing to himself a firm Monarchy in the World , and therefore ought to be guarded against and punished by the Magistrate , not as Errors in Religion , but as destructive to the Government . If it be said , all Papists believe and profess , and are ready to practise these things : To that I say , then in so far they are lyable and ought to be punished , and not tolerated . But let the reason of our procedure & sentence against them be , not their opinion in things meerly Religious , but their destructiveness to Civil Government : Thus if we go upon this sound Principle , we shall preserve the honour of the truly Christian & Protestant Cause , and take away from them all occasion of glorying in their Sufferings , or of strengthning themselves against Protestants in Popish Countries , who live peaceably , and hold no such Principles as oblige them to make any disturbance in the Government . The like may be said of all others called Sectaries , whom the Magistrate is to restrain only in so far as they hold principles , or bring forth practices that are destructive to the Government . As to the second part of the objection , relating to the Magistrate , I answer , such are either Elective , or Hereditary ; if Elective , there is no place for the objection , because the Electors have access to chuse men of such Principles as they like best ; if Hereditary , it is either absolute , or limited ; if there be any such exyress limitation , as excludes men of such and such Principles , then the case is solved ; if not , the former distinction will hold : Let the Magistrate entertain such Principles as best likes him , in matters that are purely Religious ; but if he will entertain such as are destructive to the Government , by which he infringes the priviledges of the people , and will rob them of their Lives , Liberties and Estates , meerly upon the account of Religion , certainly they have great reason to beware how they come under such a Yoak ; which they can do without any blemish , and with full justification in the face of the Nations , since they deny not the Magistrate the exercise of his Religion for himself : and herein the people also may be sufficiently secured , whatever be the M●gistrates Religion , if thus bounded , as in the application to the state of things here in England , and Scotland also , will appear , to which I now proceed . It is to be considered , that these Nations having been long involved in a Civil War , through which a new people ( not formerly , or but little known ) have grown up , who as men have or ought to have an interest in the same Immunities , Freedoms and Priviledges with the rest ; as to Civil things at least ; for else in England the Papist might plead Magna Charta , that all but they ought to be extruded the Nation , or be lyable to such troubles as might make it too hot for them to stay in ; and so in Scotland and Ireland , if not by the same , yet by other mediums : so that as to the Spiritual Constitution , or the Civil Government of these Nations as to Spiritual things the Laws have not been as those of the Medes and Persians , but have received alterations according to the necessity and conveniency of times ; that those who have given the Law , and in and for whose favour , for whose protection the Laws were expresly made , had them turned against them , and for the protection of those against whom the Laws were made . Since the coming in of the King that now is , ( after a long Civil intestine War , as hath been said ) that which hath been set up paramount over and above all , hath been that of Bishops , or Episcopacy , to the utter suppression of all others ; with all strenuous endeavours to strengthen and propagate that Profession , and drive on an Uniformity , which how ineffectual it hath hitherto been , all may see , as may appear by the Kings Declaration in the year 1672. and though a considerable time hath since intervened , it may still be seen there was good reason for the import of that Declaration , whereby the Ship of these Nations hath been tossed and lyable to great hazards , through the tumultuating humours , surmises , discontents of the severals concerned , in being lyable to be out of the protection of the Law ; so that upon these accounts , and the concurring circumstances that either have been , or might have bern artificially managed to blow the Coal ; I say , considering the combustible matter , it is to me matter of acknowledgment and admiration , that things have not run unto confusion long ere now : And truly my hope is , that God Almighty intends better things for these Nations , then that one size or sort of people should be set up in matters of Religion , to the utter ruinating and undoing of all others ; or that thereby through the impatience of man , ( to whom it is hard to bear to have his Spiritual and Civil Liberties snapt away at once ) or through the artifice of them who upon other grounds of discontent , may make use of this to blow these Nations into a flame , which God forbid , my hope and desire is rather , that those in Authority may consider as Christians and prudent men , how to land the Ship in a safe Harbour . First , how as Christians they are not concerned to meddle in this matter ; that is , that Christianity lays no obligation upon the Magistrate to establish any form of the Christian Religion by Law , is above shewn : so that such do say nothing to the purpose , who land this debate ( as most of the Clergy do ) in recurring to the Laws in force , saying , So it stands by Law , so it is settled by Law , for the Law was no less strong in Q. Maries days for Popery , then now for that which is set up . Next , if it stand upon a meer prudent prudential politick foot , and so be settled by the Laws of these Nations , I apply my self in the second place to consider , how far it is truly suitable to prudence , how far it is prudential for the Magistrates of these Nations , how far it is good policy in them to own , assert , lay claim to such a power , as things are circumstantiated especially ; that is to say , to set up by Law any form of Christian Religion , and by the Civil Power and Authority to stand by the Professors of it , to the depressing , exterminating , discountenancing , crushing and discouraging of all others : I say , this seems to me not only to be Antichristian , but Antiprudential , Antipolitical , and a thing of a wonderful dangerous consequence , and impracticable for any long continuance , without the hazarding of all , for these Reasons . It is not prudential for Magistrates to keep alive Seeds of discord , emulation , strife , among the people over whom they rule , for this but narrows his or their power , instead of enlarging it ; for as this engages those who are countenanced , so it alienates more or less all those who are discountenanced or is lyable to do so . Besides all the several other dissenting Judgments in these Nations , there are three sorts that lay claim to the Magistrates espousing them and their way , as that which he is obliged to do in a National way ; and all these three lay claim for the limits of their Church to be as broad and long at least as the Nation , to wit , the Popish , Prelatical , and Presbyterian ; all these pretend to be diametrically opposite to each other , and each of them have had the advantage to get the Magistrate on their side , and to be settled by Law ; publick places and publick maintenance have belonged to them : Thus even the Democratical Government of Presbytery , could cry out on all meddlers with Church-Lands , but especially Tithes , as Sacrilegious persons . Now this hath been especially the Bone of Contention among these three ; it was not , nor is not meerly that any of them should be owned to be the Church and Ministry of Christ only , or before all others , but that they should be set above all others , so as to have the maintenance and respective priviledges due to Holy Church . Now were it prudential to set up any of these three , as the present condition and complexion of the Nations are ? I say , Nay ; as for the Papists , they are a diminutive Sect to the rest of the Nation respectively , though upon all other accounts they stood upon an equal foot with the rest differing from them , as I have shewn before they do not : as to those of the Episcopal way , such as truly are engaged in their Judgments to that way , are not much more considerable then they , so that they will be found but a diminutive Sect also ▪ so that to establish them , and drive a Conformity to them , hath been hitherto but to go against Wind and Tide , because the sence of the people ( though upon differing accounts ) hath been and is against them : as to the Presbyterians , it is to be confessed they are more considerable then both the other for number , though not of one Judgment among themselves , albeit all agreeing that they ought to be set up , owned and countenanced by the Magistrate , and he to be subservient to them , not to be the Head of the Church , that is lodged in the General Assembly : yet in prudence it is not ●●t , nor a foot large enough for the Magistrate to rest upon , so as to crush down all others ; for they , taken as all of one Judgment , will be found but a diminutive Sect , put in the ballance with all others , to wit , the other two beforementioned , and the rest of the dissenters in the Nation . And as they are a people positive and peremptory , and lyable to fall in differences among themselves , as was manifest in Scotland about the year 1650. it will be no less hard to satisfie them ; then they to satisfie one another ; however this will be the minimum quod sic , that all others must be crushed and born down , so as it will be found hard to please them , for they will be found to grow in their Encroachments and Demands , and it will not be found so easie a matter , whatever cause or occasion should be found for it , to limit or stop them once being set up as they that are less considerable : neither do I see it prudential for the Magistrate to countenance any of these , so as to give them the sole countenance of Publick Authority , as to Church-Power , as it hath been called and accounted the National Church , & so these to have Publick Authority and Maintenance , and Priviledge accord●ng to Law ▪ & the rest only to be tolerated and connived at , for this is only to keep up the Bone of Contention , that as opportunity serves they in the Saddle may be unhorsed , and they that are stronger get into their room : For it is never to be reckoned of , that the Papists though they had their Liberty by way of toleration or connivance , as the rest of dissenters , will be satisfied so long as they see Law countenance them that separated from them , and those in the possession of their Mass-houses and Maintenance , that were originally settled upon and consecrated by their Church , and which as to its original had its rise from their Church ? Or is it to be reckoned upon that the Presbyters , whatever countenance or toleration were granted them , though settled by Law , would be satisfied while excluded from the Publick Places and Maintenance ? and they being the stronger , and a growing Interest , would still be lying at catch to be in again ; were it not then good Christianity in the Magistrates , who profess themselves to be Christians , to deny themselves in giving to Christ Jesus that which is his due only , that is , to be Head in and over his Church , and leave the Government to him , and get their hands out of this Thorny matter , that hath produced nothing to themselves but trouble , without which these Nations can never be firmly settled : I am bold to say , and were it not good prudence so to do . What hath been the Fama clamosa for many years of old , and of late before the War , and since the coming in of the King , and is so at this day ? Popery ! Arbitrary Government ! there hath a Jealousie entred the minds of people concerning these things ; could a better way be found out to pluck up these surmises by the Roots , then if all concern'd would shew a willingness and ready compliance , and contribute to it in their respective places and stations , that it might be fundamentally settled and established as a Basis never to be shaken , that all Christian men should be left to the Government of the Law of Jesus , to worship him and serve him , as they shall find themselves by him obliged ; the Magistrate not at all to meddle or intermeddle therein , further then to see that this be kept among all , so that no man nor men may be imposed upon in the matters of Religion , within the bounds of his Jurisdiction , by any outward force or violence ; nor his Authority be made use of to confirm any Spiritual sentence more or less , but as every one hath been or may be perswaded to joyn themselves to any sorts of people , upon a Spiritual or Christian account , they may be left so to do in matters meerly and only relating to Conscience , and that all Laws to the contrary may be utterly and totally abolished ; and as to all other things , every one from the least to the greatest to be subject to the Civil Laws of the Nation , and that Order and Good Government among men may be established , and that none under whatsoever pretence may plead Immunity from subjection to the Laws , in such things that come properly and unquestionably under the Civil Magistrates cognizance ; so that he may be an encouragment to those that do well , and a terror to evil doers , that good and wholesom Laws may be made by those to whom it is proper so to do , for establishing the Rights and Properties of men as men , and for encouraging Sobriety ; and this is proper for the Magistrate . But what will become of Holy Church , will some say ? She will be where she was , for the Magistrate withdrawing his hand , leaving every profession and way to stand upon its own legs , Unchurches neither Papists , Episcopalians , nor Presbyterians , they are a Church still , if they were so before . But saith the Bishops and Hierarchy , What shall become of us ? if the Magistrate withdraw his hand , where shall we have Maintenance ? where shall we have a place to Preach in ? Ye shall have no less advantage or ground to stand in then those that relate to other people , that account themselves to have Ministers , and to be Churches ; yea this advantage you have above all them , that you have had 18 or 19 years Places and Benefices , so you may the better hear the want , till you try the benevolence of your People , which is all the rest will have as well as you , so you will all stand on an equal foot ; and it 's fit they should ▪ for the publick Preaching places , and the publick Maintenance hath been the Bone of Contention in these Nations , and will be found to stand upon the same foot with Abbeys and Nunneries , and Church-Lands : The intent originally was honest and good , and from ●●al . As the one 〈◊〉 time of Reformation ; and for publick necessity and conveniency , was removed and utterly abolished ; as to the use they were first intended for ; so may these , and so must these , if ever the Nation see a firm and thorough settlement ; the Church-Lands ( a suitable case given to the Tenants ) applied to the Revenue of the Crown , and annexed thereto for ever inviolably ; I mean Bishop , Chapte● , and Dean-Lands , and such as have been accounted in the right and possession of the present Churches respectively . The Tithes have been a great oppression upon the people of these Nations ▪ and would be absolutely extinguish'd both as to name and thing , so as there may be no footsteps of them ; and that no man whatsoever that is a Proprietor in Land , may be lyable to have another to have an Interest in his Tithe , which hath been a great bondage and servitude ; and had its Interest upon the account that they belong'd to Holy Church , and was their Patrimony . Now things being settled upon another foundation and turned quite in another Channel , by the prudence and care of those to whom it be●●●gs properly so to do , with a suitable regard every way , that the c●nscientiously tender Christian , ●ho ha●● suffered daily upon this account , and the Rights of men , as men , may be answered , and 〈◊〉 way and expedient found out to give some competent satisfaction , suitable to the Rights and Possessions of Impropriators , so as henceforward the Stock and Tithe may b● so confounded and involved , that whoever hath the Property of Possession of Lands , may never be lyable to any such bondage more or less , by these accessions of the Bishops ; and other Church-Lands not already disposed o● into the possession of the Laity , so called , there shall be a considerable addition of Revenue to the Crown , and hereby the Body of ●●e people of those Nations will be gratified , in removing the great oppression and servitude of Tithes , the cause of Contention will be removed , and every sort and size of people will stand upon their own legs ; all unreasonable expectations of setting up one sort of men , and throwing down all the rest , will be out ; all fears and jealousies , and animosities upon this account will cease , and hereby that which hath been a standing fear and jealousie upon the people of these Nations , will be plucked up by the Roots . If it be said , What shall become of the Magistrate or Magistrates , things being thus settled ? Where were the hazard ? for were it not unreasonable that the Magistrate or Magistrates should be in worse case then the People ? who are to be left to their absolute liberty as to the matter of Religion , without being lyable to any Civil inconveniency , or abridg'd of any priviledge upon the account of this or that form of Religion , meerly as such ; then why not the Magistrate ? It being fundamentally settled , as it would be , and is needful it should be , that except in his or their Family as Chap●ain , and that in a temporary way , it should not be in the power of the Magistrate or Magistrates , to make any standing Maintenance , or settlement upon any sort of men in Orders , or to set them up or countenance them , further then by his or their being of their perswasion , or allowing them on such account entertainment as Chaplain● ; and that for clearing the people of these Nations of the aforementioned Seeds of Jealousie , it be fundamentally settled as a Magna Charta for ever , that whosoever in the Magistracy , or any other from the least to the greatest , shall be found to alter or innovate this Fundamental settlement , shall be lyable to be judged by this Law , as guilty of Tre●son against the Fundamentals of the Government , for the Law only is , and is to be declared Supreme ; and that whoever either separately or in conjunction , shall go against this Basis or Fundamental settlement , were it a single person , or the Parliament , shall ceas● to be Magistrate or a Parliament , and their Decrees become void and null : for the ●●ndame●tals are never to be altered , viz. that the Magistrate , as Magistrate , is to be wholly ▪ shu● but , as to all meddling in matters of Religion , but every man as to the Magistrates interposition 〈◊〉 ▪ be left free ; and that all men , as men born freemen , not having fo●f●i●ed their Liberty by doing those things which makes them obnoxious , shall be secure in their Persons and ●●dates from all . Arbitrary proceedings ; which will truly be for the ho●●ur and greatn●ss of the Magistrate or Magistrates , and safety of the People . These things being writ by one that hates to be Dogmatical , are therefore only modestly proposed and humbly submitted to those of more mature Judgment and greater Experience , especially to the New appro●ching Parliament , by him who in truth can subscribe himself , Philo-Britannicus .